Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #17

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around Nancy has her own forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.


Newbies.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872).


BE NICE TO EACHOTHER, AGREE TO DISAGREE. WE SHOULD WELCOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT THEORY ON THE CASE...BETTER FOR DISCUSSIONS, :doh: MIGHT AS WELL JUST TALK TO MYSELF IF I ONLY WANT TO HEAR MY OWN THEORY.:waitasec:

[Topsail Girl]

Ahh so the Morwicks and the Fetterolfs live on Strathburgh. Hmm...

[Skittles]

Of course, I don't have the floorplan of the house, but it's possible that the door to the house would lead into a laundry area which would be on the right side, then. Which actually makes plenty of sense to me now. Thanks, Bubba

According to the "building sketch" in the county tax records there is a 20 x 15 area behind the garage. The sketches don't show interior walls, but the photo the county has of the house shows a chimney on the right end of that area, so it's probably the family room.

Are we allowed to post direct links to government records on the WS site? If so I'll post a link to the picture and building sketch.

[raisincharlie]

Caryresident

Thanks for the information. I would tend to agree there is probably some sort of camera monitoring the front desk/checkin area. So if I have this in my mind correctly - to get into the area of the club with all the ammenities, one has to produce a membership card at the desk before proceeding into the club proper. Got it, and again thanks.

So there is no way really Nancy could have entered the club without some record of it either tape or check in data - yes ?

[ncnative]

Topsail Girl, Scott Heider and his now-ex, Heather Heider-Metour used to live at 231 Strathburgh Lane.

[Topsail Girl]

Topsail Girl, Scott Heider and his now-ex, Heather Heider-Metour used to live at 231 Strathburgh Lane.

Thanks!!!!

[caryresident]

Caryresident

Thanks for the information. I would tend to agree there is probably some sort of camera monitoring the front desk/checkin area. So if I have this in my mind correctly - to get into the area of the club with all the ammenities, one has to produce a membership card at the desk before proceeding into the club proper. Got it, and again thanks.

So there is no way really Nancy could have entered the club without some record of it either tape or check in data - yes ?

The front desk people probably could have looked up her information if she didn't have her card.

[Topsail Girl]

Here's something else that is niggling at me.....we know that Nancy didn't go running with Carey now for a fact and that they had no plans to go running that morning. Soooo... if Nancy really went running with someone as brad wants us to believe, wouldn't that person was have come forward and said they were with Nancy by now? I know I would if it was me running with her and I knew I was the last person to see her alive - unless of course, I killed her.

[raisincharlie]

Here's something else that is niggling at me.....we know that Nancy didn't go running with Carey now for a fact and that they had no plans to go running that morning. Soooo... if Nancy really went running with someone as brad wants us to believe, wouldn't that person was have come forward and said they were with Nancy by now? I know I would if it was me running with her and I knew I was the last person to see her alive - unless of course, I killed her.

I think you can probably rule out someone else went running with Nancy, for this reason. In the 630 pm presser on 14 July, a media member asks Chief Bazemore if anyone had come forward to indicate Nancy was seen running on Saturday morning. Chief Bazemore confirms that as of that date and time no one had reported seeing Nancy in the areas she was known to run.

While this does not rule out she ran with someone - she supposedly left from her home, which was somewhat of a deviation from her normal routine to start with. If she met up with someone, no one saw it, and no one apparently saw her running with someone either, and Brad did not report her leaving in a vehicle with someone. Just a thought.

[ncnative]

Topsail Girl (as in Topsail Beach?)

Heather Heider-Metour lives on Brannigan Place in Cary, in the Farren Forest subdivision. It is directly behind Farmington Woods Elem. School. I know lots of her neighbors, esp. the one across the street. I met Heather last Dec. Nothing special at all. Kinda horsey. Always looking for something to do. Not that she could have been enjoying her own kid, but nooooo. Ha ha. She's gotta have those affairs w/other married men. At work,even.

Nancy and Brad live in Lochside Glen in Lochmere. Those on Strathburgh Ln. live in Strathmoor or something like that. Yeah, I live in the Lochwood part of Lochmere. We're all on the same end of Lochmere,which is a huge huge subdivision. I get to see all the goings-ons.

[jumpstreet]

While this does not rule out she ran with someone - she supposedly left from her home, which was somewhat of a deviation from her normal routine to start with. If she met up with someone, no one saw it, and no one apparently saw her running with someone either, and Brad did not report her leaving in a vehicle with someone. Just a thought.

This one could (theoritically) be explained by Theory (B) (on the Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)thread) - which involves NC departing for a secret meeting with someone else (who picked her up near her home). This theory is supported by the (unconfirmed) statement that the oldest saw NC leave to go running (though is not supported by a number of other things of course...)

Check on the Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)thread for details (and feel free to respond to the informal poll there with your thoughts on "most likely" theory, based on current knowns....)

[raisincharlie]

This one could (theoritically) be explained by Theory (B) (on the Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)thread) - which involves NC departing for a secret meeting with someone else (who picked her up near her home). This theory is supported by the (unconfirmed) statement that the oldest saw NC leave to go running (though is not supported by a number of other things of course...)

Check on the Theories thread for details (and feel free to respond to the informal poll there with your thoughts on "most likely" theory, based on current knowns....)

Yes it could be explained by Theory B, no doubt. I'm not much of a theorist actually. But I do think you did a good job of it.

[ncnative]

Topsail Girl, Heather Metour has lived at 110 Brannigan Pl. since 2-2-2007. Her ex, Scott Heider, now lives in Raleigh near Lake Johnston (or is it Johnson?). If someone is sueing her for "alienation of affection", and the other party wins, Heather may be moving on from that house! Her name is mud around here already.

[snowshuze]

Just a hmmmmm moment for me.....IF it's true Brad Cooper received all those bonus payouts, it's entirely possible Nancy had no knowlege of this money, as Brad was in total control of the family "budget".

[raisincharlie]

Topsail Girl, Heather Metour has lived at 110 Brannigan Pl. since 2-2-2007. Her ex, Scott Heider, now lives in Raleigh near Lake Johnston (or is it Johnson?). If someone is sueing her for "alienation of affection", and the other party wins, Heather may be moving on from that house! Her name is mud around here already.

The searches were expanded in the later stages to include the Lake Johnston (Johnson) area as I recall. Mr Heider does live within the confines of that area and fairly close to the lake. The possibilities...

[2Daughters1Dog]

Christine said...

Not entirely true...there are some facts that we are baseing our speculation on.

I for one, don't know if he did it or not. Stats say he did. IMO, there is defenitley motive, means, and op. here for Brad to be the killer...BUT, that just based on what we know.

Yes, speculate, that's what we do on a discussion board. We can only discuss what we know and posters will base their opinions on that.

what are the facts? National Stats are not facts in this case. I still don't see any "just the facts" thread. I see links, and I see legal documents, and I see maps.

[ncnative]

Snowshuze, in answer to your post that "...it's entirely possible Nancy had no knowledge of this money [bonus payoffs]...", with all the Cisco friends and gossip, she may have been aware. But lots of people do have "secret" accounts/funds. You'd have to be on your own planet not to ask to see the taxes, etc. for your own family though. He may not have shared that with her. I bet she was more savvy though. Don't know. Just guessing.

[2Daughters1Dog]

Just a hmmmmm moment for me.....IF it's true Brad Cooper received all those bonus payouts, it's entirely possible Nancy had no knowlege of this money, as Brad was in total control of the family "budget".

Fortunately, I've never been involved in a divorce myself. However, I am quite certain that...

a. there is legal financial disclosure of earnings as part of a settlement. She/her attorney wouldn't be operating off what he "claimed" he earned. They'd see that large bonus, assuming it is true.

b. "equitable distribution" means not that she gets what she needs to start a new household, but that she get an equitable amount (read: half or more) of his earnings.

c. not as certain, but I believe it is true that IF the earning/alimony paying spouse's financial condition improves, then the other party can re-open the settlement and get paid more. This would further protect her should he for example get a bonus deferred until after the settlement.

[ncnative]

Raisincharlie, as to Scott living by Lake Johnston, yes. Remember, he was married to Heather Metour. They are divorced. Even though Brad Cooper and Scott's wife at the time, Heather M. had an affair, Scott H. STILL is Brad's buddy and allowed Brad and the girls to stay at his (Scott's) home after Nancy's murder!! So, one could play detective and say that it's possible that Scott, being Brad's good buddy, even though Brad *$#@*'ed his ex-wife, Scott may have been a good buddy enough to help Brad out if he needed it regarding the murder, IF Brad did it...

Just another episode in Who Done It.

[The Saint]

after reading posts that say that brad made $445,000, it made me wonder how much he was taxed on those earnings.

a friend worked for a year in vancouver and had to pay double taxes (US and Canandian).

did brad have to pay taxes for the same Cisco earnings to both the US and Canada?

[snowshuze]

Fortunately, I've never been involved in a divorce myself. However, I am quite certain that...

a. there is legal financial disclosure of earnings as part of a settlement. She/her attorney wouldn't be operating off what he "claimed" he earned. They'd see that large bonus, assuming it is true.

b. "equitable distribution" means not that she gets what she needs to start a new household, but that she get an equitable amount (read: half or more) of his earnings.

c. not as certain, but I believe it is true that IF the earning/alimony paying spouse's financial condition improves, then the other party can re-open the settlement and get paid more. This would further protect her should he for example get a bonus deferred until after the settlement.

ETA: Based upon reading Brad Coopers affidavit, I beleive he would bend the truth.My opinion, of course.

I honestly don't know, but wouldn't financials be based upon the previous years statements/records?

[2Daughters1Dog]

You'd have to be on your own planet not to ask to see the taxes, etc. for your own family though. He may not have shared that with her.

again, I can't claim intimate knowledge of what type of tax returns a Canadian on a work visa would file. But my wife is a stay-at-home mom and she has to sign our tax returns. So she sees them. And any half-wit would at least look at the income figure.

[2Daughters1Dog]

they say he earned the bonus in '07.

[raisincharlie]

Raisincharlie, as to Scott living by Lake Johnston, yes. Remember, he was married to Heather Metour. They are divorced. Even though Brad Cooper and Scott's wife at the time, Heather M. had an affair, Scott H. STILL is Brad's buddy and allowed Brad and the girls to stay at his (Scott's) home after Nancy's murder!! So, one could play detective and say that it's possible that Scott, being Brad's good buddy, even though Brad *$#@*'ed his ex-wife, Scott may have been a good buddy enough to help Brad out if he needed it regarding the murder, IF Brad did it...

Just another episode in Who Done It.

I just can't begin to fathom how someone, other than a criminal, could even consider helping someone with regards to murder - good buddies or not. Can't even wrap my brain around that one. That is one huge risk to take for a buddy and defintely not a good choice. But it certainly does happen. Not saying or implying it happened in this case - just that I can't even begin to imagine why someone would.

[fran]

Here's something else that is niggling at me.....we know that Nancy didn't go running with Carey now for a fact and that they had no plans to go running that morning. Soooo... if Nancy really went running with someone as brad wants us to believe, wouldn't that person was have come forward and said they were with Nancy by now? I know I would if it was me running with her and I knew I was the last person to see her alive - unless of course, I killed her.

FWIW, according to the accounts from, I believe yesterday that were reporting the new affidavit by Carey Clark, the media is sure to add, "That statement does not refute Brad's statements since he has never said he was certain that Nancy went running with Clark.
He simply stated that when none of Nancy's friends knew where she was he thought she might have run with Clark."

So, the excuses for the inconsistancies have already begun, even if NOT put out by the NOT suspect.

Curious, according to statements made by JA regarding her morning conversations with Brad, he stated it to JA as if fact, that Nancy was with Carey. He then told another friend that she was out havng coffee. We'll soon hear he THOUGHT she was out having coffee after the run because she hadn't yet returned.

IMO, the EXCUSES for his words and actions will start sounding lame after we get to the 20 EXCUSE mark.:rolleyes:

JMHO
fran


http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6310421

[ncnative]

As to Nancy having "someone else", I don't know. But she would have to come up with lots of energy and time away from her girls to do that. She looked awfully tired and worn in many photos. Emotionally and physically, she probably was already on full load. Taking care of two little ones, doing the laundry, cooking, household work, having a social life, painting walls (her own/friends) and getting a home ready to sell...think about it. Plus she had Crohn's. She was focused on getting the heck back to Canada some day. Or, getting her citizenship here and making a life here some day. Now if she could and wanted to get into a relationship on top of all that and Brad's lovely treatment of her...she would have to have a battery re-charger for her life!

I'm holding out for the big day when we all know the truth, but I'll still speculate.

[The Saint]

was brad a salaried staff employee of cisco or an independant contractor who worked out of the cisco office (like microsoft employees) who file 1099s?

for independent contractors, the aim is to lower the taxed figure by claiming
legal, legitimate deductions.

maybe brad's tax return reflected that.
maybe he hid money in offshore accounts.
$285,000 is a very hefty bonus.

did that come in december the year that he threatened suicide? maybe he felt like he didn't want to give up half that bonus in a divorce.

he may have started moving around to conceal from nancy after there was mention of divorce.

[snowshuze]

I'm just having problems wrapping my head around IF there was all this bonus money in the "budget".........WHY does it seem like Brad is crying poor in his affiidavit?

[The Saint]

i think one of the cruelest things brad did to nancy was have her pack up the house in a hurry, say "Get the $%^ out of my house!" and then call the whole thing off 2 days before the move. (see affidavits)

that is a major mindscrew.

[ncnative]

Oh, duh 2Daughters. I totally did not think that yes, she'd have to sign the tax form.

In my post, #19, by Scott helping Brad out...I meant AFTER the murder, assuming Brad did it. Scott could've helped Brad in other ways than having Brad and the girls staying over at his house after the murder. He did help Brad by giving him a place for him and the girls to stay.

[The Saint]

I'm just having problems wrapping my head around IF there was all this bonus money in the "budget".........WHY does it seem like Brad is crying poor in his affiidavit?

'cause nancy bought $200 jeans, snowshuze!

[RaleighNC]

I think the bonus is overstated, but the salary sounds about right. He also likely has a decent amount of stock options if he has not exercised them - although many are probably underwater now - now the OPTIONS may have been issued for the $285K or whatever someone called out vesting over x years, etc., but I don't see a bonus of that size. IIRC, he was to retain the stock options in the proposed settlement agreement.

While bonuses can be pretty large at Cisco - to pull down that kind of coin in one year (almost $1/2 million before taxes) and have a loan against your 401K, an increase in an equity line, a mortgage, a car loan and be $45k in credit card debt - someone would either have to have a SERIOUS drug or gambling problem. And with all the airing of dirty laundry, that would have surely come out.

[raisincharlie]

I'm just having problems wrapping my head around IF there was all this bonus money in the "budget".........WHY does it seem like Brad is crying poor in his affiidavit?

uh huh :crazy: . He could have wiped out that 45k in cc debt pretty easy. Since the payments were spread over 4 quarters, supposedly, and he had removed all cc's from Nancy and access to the checking account, it could have disappeared quickly and with much less interest than paying over time.

But I have to say in Brad's defense - this report of earnings falls into the category of rumor and speculation still. No confirmation this is true.

[The Saint]

only a forensic accountant might be able to track the spending, but my feeling is that nancy bought herself certain things (like $200 jeans) after she found out brad had bought something expensive for himself.

she may have felt she earned it.

[fran]

they say he earned the bonus in '07.

Well, I will say that the $285K bonus, on top of his $160K yearly salary, was an 'A HA!' moment for me.

An additional 285,000 reasons WHY he most likely murdered his dear sweet wife!

Funny how that wasn't brought up in the 'legal separation' document nor any of the affidavits. Poor Brad, by supplying all this documentation he tried to make it look as if Nancy was taking him to the cleaners financially.:boohoo:

YET! He failed to mention the additional bonus received which was equivilant to 178% of his years salary.

Just goes to show, can't believe everything you read! Including an affidavit, which is signed under the threat of perjury.

Oh, but I am fairly confident, that bonus is in there somewhere, just NOT the amount, because it was most likely in favor of Brad. Oh, yeah, wasn't there some type of an investment or brokerage or some type of account? No amount given but he was to retain that?

Like I said, it's all in the DETAILS.

NO life insurance? Maybe not, but an additional $285K, or $168K or so after taxes, could tide Brad over for awhile until he recovered from the loss of his family.

Course now,.................. Nancy won't be needing her half.......

JMHO
fran

[snowshuze]

uh huh :crazy: . He could have wiped out that 45k in cc debt pretty easy. Since the payments were spread over 4 quarters, supposedly, and he had removed all cc's from Nancy and access to the checking account, it could have disappeared quickly and with much less interest than paying over time.

But I have to say in Brad's defense - this report of earnings falls into the category of rumor and speculation still. No confirmation this is true.

Notice the capitalization of "IF".
:rolleyes:

[2Daughters1Dog]

was brad a salaried staff employee of cisco or an independant contractor who worked out of the cisco office (like microsoft employees) who file 1099s?

for independent contractors, the aim is to lower the taxed figure by claiming
legal, legitimate deductions.

maybe brad's tax return reflected that.
maybe he hid money in offshore accounts.
$285,000 is a very hefty bonus.

did that come in december the year that he threatened suicide? maybe he felt like he didn't want to give up half that bonus in a divorce.

he may have started moving around to conceal from nancy after there was mention of divorce.

we've been told Cisco paid for his MBA. Nobody does that for contract employees.

I am 100% certain that his bonus, whether it be cash or options, would have to have been disclosed to the divorce attorneys, so long as it had been awarded by settlement date.

I think a bonus > 100% of your salary is BS, and DEFINITELY a cash bonus, but that is MO.

[Daphne69]

Okay, just getting caught up, but something from NC #16 caught my eye -- BC checking Lifetime for NC. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive because I personally avoid exercise, but if you just finished a run, would you then go to a gym, especially if you had plans to meet a friend? BC knew all of this BEFORE he checked Lifetime for her. Why check there? :waitasec:

[fran]

I think the bonus is overstated, but the salary sounds about right. He also likely has a decent amount of stock options if he has not exercised them - although many are probably underwater now - now the OPTIONS may have been issued for the $285K or whatever someone called out vesting over x years, etc., but I don't see a bonus of that size. IIRC, he was to retain the stock options in the proposed settlement agreement.

While bonuses can be pretty large at Cisco - to pull down that kind of coin in one year (almost $1/2 million before taxes) and have a loan against your 401K, an increase in an equity line, a mortgage, a car loan and be $45k in credit card debt - someone would either have to have a SERIOUS drug or gambling problem. And with all the airing of dirty laundry, that would have surely come out.

Or.........someone seeing an impending divorce in their immediate future, could be 'hiding assets' and running up debt, to minimize as much as possible, the blow to their financial security.

Wonder if a forensic accountant and a forensic computer analyst could detect any little secret overseas bank accounts for Mr. Cooper?:eek:

This is definitely, getting interesting. ;)

JMHO
fran

[snowshuze]

Okay, just getting caught up, but something from NC #16 caught my eye -- BC checking Lifetime for NC. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive because I personally avoid exercise, but if you just finished a run, would you then go to a gym, especially if you had plans to meet a friend? BC knew all of this BEFORE he checked Lifetime for her. Why check there? :waitasec:
Verification that he "searched"? :)

[RaleighNC]

Well, I will say that the $285K bonus, on top of his $160K yearly salary, was an 'A HA!' moment for me.

An additional 285,000 reasons WHY he most likely murdered his dear sweet wife!

Funny how that wasn't brought up in the 'legal separation' document nor any of the affidavits. Poor Brad, by supplying all this documentation he tried to make it look as if Nancy was taking him to the cleaners financially.:boohoo:

YET! He failed to mention the additional bonus received which was equivilant to 178% of his years salary.

Just goes to show, can't believe everything you read! Including an affidavit, which is signed under the threat of perjury.

Oh, but I am fairly confident, that bonus is in there somewhere, just NOT the amount, because it was most likely in favor of Brad. Oh, yeah, wasn't there some type of an investment or brokerage or some type of account? No amount given but he was to retain that?

Like I said, it's all in the DETAILS.

NO life insurance? Maybe not, but an additional $285K, or $168K or so after taxes, could tide Brad over for awhile until he recovered from the loss of his family.

Course now,.................. Nancy won't be needing her half.......

JMHO
fran

Ya'll need to step back on the speculation regarding bonuses - jeez - someone says it and it's gospel AND the smoking gun on motive????

Here's a few things that perhaps you don't know:

Cisco does not operate it's fiscal year on a calendar year basis. They just closed their 2008 books at the end of July (see their year end earnings posted Tuesday of this week) so 2007 DOES NOT mean calendar year 2007.

Getting confidential salary information is likely the most difficult thing to do in a large company. I know at another large tech company in RTP - you have to have a LEGITIMATE reason for doing so, i.e. an open job post where you are interviewing someone and want to check appraisals and salary. I suspect Cisco is the same. Any manager can't just go in there and poke around - it would also be grounds for termination. Allowing folks access to that data is a huge exposure - so I would be VERY SUSPECT of anyone that says these things.

Oh - and if someone on an internet message board knows about this HUGE bonus - how do you think that Nancy or her VERY HIGH POWERED attorney were kept in the dark? Please. They would have a legitimate need for a full financial disclosure and since it's all US income - there's no way it was hidden.

Let's look at some of these posting with a little common sense, ok?

[raisincharlie]

Notice the capitalization of "IF".
:rolleyes:

I know - I'm being my usual smart a self ! We are told we just look at rumors and speculate, have tunnelvision and so on but then we are told to believe this wild unconfirmed story that in reality makes Brad boy look a whole lot worse...can't help myself.:crazy:

[Daphne69]

And if he thought maybe she went to the gym instead of going for a run, why was her car still at the house?

[The Saint]

$285,000 in a bonus?
many people lost big money when Cisco stock tanked some years back --- this is irksome.

[raisincharlie]

Okay, just getting caught up, but something from NC #16 caught my eye -- BC checking Lifetime for NC. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive because I personally avoid exercise, but if you just finished a run, would you then go to a gym, especially if you had plans to meet a friend? BC knew all of this BEFORE he checked Lifetime for her. Why check there? :waitasec:

I think you are on my wave length - I'm still wondering why he waited to go to Carey's after he checked at Lifetime...

[RaleighNC]

Or.........someone seeing an impending divorce in their immediate future, could be 'hiding assets' and running up debt, to minimize as much as possible, the blow to their financial security.

Wonder if a forensic accountant and a forensic computer analyst could detect any little secret overseas bank accounts for Mr. Cooper?:eek:

This is definitely, getting interesting. ;)

JMHO
fran

Cisco is a multi-billion dollar company that requires tax information for all their employees. They withhold FICA, SS, State tax, 401k contributions, etc. it's not like he's being paid in small bills from Cousin Ernie. You just can't hide that stuff. He could hide the 'after tax' amount, but the most recent paycheck statement would should a CRAPLOAD more money than he was bringing home and even the most junior associate / intern / paralegal at Tharrington - Smith would have been able to figure out if there was more money that he as claiming.

[christine2448]

what are the facts?

There are so many to post..I will just list a few and I am hoping other posters and yourself will read through the threads and pull up all the facts...


Brad and Nancy were married (I could add about 2000 fact under this first one, from they had two children, to their parents names)


Nancy has been murdered (under this we can list 5000 facts on what we now was going on the night before, days before, months before, years before.....from affairs, to how much $$ was being made, what paintings they owned...those are all facts. )


Get my point. There are A LOT of facts posted in these threads...we take those and we speculate...right now we don't know who did it..some speculate it was Brad, others don't (would love some more people to pin it on!)...personally....there may be more then one person in this world w/motive to murder Nancy...but, based on everyone I have read so far....the finger points to Brad. Bring us something else...point us in another dircection.

a. there is legal financial disclosure of earnings as part of a settlement. She/her attorney wouldn't be operating off what he "claimed" he earned. They'd see that large bonus, assuming it is true.

I have been divorced twice :( The only 'financial disclosure' was a financial affidavit...which is basically a piece of paper, filled out by attorney/client and notarized saying this is all true. No investigation...unless other party fights it, then they may be ordered to show pay or something..but if she didn' t know about the bonus why woulds he fuss about it? I thought I new what x made, he me.....we did our affidavits, notarize, done. He could lie on that, I believe.



b. "equitable distribution" means not that she gets what she needs to start a new household, but that she get an equitable amount (read: half or more) of his earnings.
What does "equitable" mean? Doesn’t it mean, "equal"? (http://www.divorcesupport.com/divorce/What-does-quot-equitable-quot-mean-Doesn-rsquo-t-1266.html)

No, this is a common misconception. "Equitable" means "fair," not "equal." It may be more equitable, given the state of the marriage and the conditions of the spouses, for the majority of the property to go to the husband, instead of the wife, or vice versa.

Sometimes equitable distribution results in an equal division, or a very close approximation of an equal division. This doesn’t mean that all equitable distribution in that state, or even in that court, will be equal.

[fran]

i think one of the cruelest things brad did to nancy was have her pack up the house in a hurry, say "Get the $%^ out of my house!" and then call the whole thing off 2 days before the move. (see affidavits)

that is a major mindscrew.

See, this is EXACTLY the type of stuff I've been trying to say, on Brad says Nancy exaggerated,(embellished, guess it's an MBA size word for liar,:crazy:) and her friends said he did this and that,

THEN some people seem to believe Brad over the friends. Well, we know they were planning a going away party and changed it to something else. Of course Brad's explanation is they decided to work it out.

The friends said he played mind games with her by changing the rules on her. We've seen it by various friends in their affidavits, on a number of separate occasions.

Yet, many people believe him because he said it under oath.

But it still comes back for me anyway, Nancy is dead, Brad survived. I think she had a reason to be afraid of him and her MURDER is the {proof}!

JMHO
fran

[christine2448]

I think the bonus is overstated, but the salary sounds about right. He also likely has a decent amount of stock options if he has not exercised them - although many are probably underwater now - now the OPTIONS may have been issued for the $285K or whatever someone called out vesting over x years, etc., but I don't see a bonus of that size. IIRC, he was to retain the stock options in the proposed settlement agreement.

While bonuses can be pretty large at Cisco - to pull down that kind of coin in one year (almost $1/2 million before taxes) and have a loan against your 401K, an increase in an equity line, a mortgage, a car loan and be $45k in credit card debt - someone would either have to have a SERIOUS drug or gambling problem. And with all the airing of dirty laundry, that would have surely come out.

Ya'll need to step back on the speculation regarding bonuses - jeez - someone says it and it's gospel AND the smoking gun on motive????

Let's look at some of these posting with a little common sense, ok?

Well, you were speculating/discussing too. ;) I should have worded my own post better, I should have said "if this 'rumor' is true...there is possible motive".

I agree that one statement shouldn't be taken as a solid fact...we all tend to grab onto the rumors..few pages it's fact...we should be careful of that, great point.......we have no clue if this bonus info is in fact accurate.

[The Saint]

And if he thought maybe she went to the gym instead of going for a run, why was her car still at the house?
Brad will just claim that he was in a panic to find her*.



( alternate: * destroy evidence and establish an alibi)

[RaleighNC]

Well, you were speculating/discussing too. ;) I should have worded my own post better, I should have said "if this 'rumor' is true...there is possible motive".

I agree that one statement shouldn't be taken as a solid fact...we all tend to grab onto the rumors..few pages it's fact...we should be careful of that, great point.......we have no clue if this bonus info is in fact accurate.

Sorry - I was referring more to fran - who jumped immediately on the alleged bonus and called it the motive.

For the record - I think he did it - but I am trying to look at the posting, affidavits and "evidence" (or lack thereof) with a more critical eye.

:crazy:

[Topsail Girl]

Topsail Girl (as in Topsail Beach?)

Heather Heider-Metour lives on Brannigan Place in Cary, in the Farren Forest subdivision. It is directly behind Farmington Woods Elem. School. I know lots of her neighbors, esp. the one across the street. I met Heather last Dec. Nothing special at all. Kinda horsey. Always looking for something to do. Not that she could have been enjoying her own kid, but nooooo. Ha ha. She's gotta have those affairs w/other married men. At work,even.

Nancy and Brad live in Lochside Glen in Lochmere. Those on Strathburgh Ln. live in Strathmoor or something like that. Yeah, I live in the Lochwood part of Lochmere. We're all on the same end of Lochmere,which is a huge huge subdivision. I get to see all the goings-ons.

Thanks NC Native for that info. I was getting a littel confused with Strathmoor and Strathburgh. I've got it now.

:) Yes to your question - as in Topsail Beach. My home away from Raleigh-wood.

Raisin, I agree and I believe it's because she never went running - she was dead by then. No one hascome forward and no one saw her because she never made it. I just waited to bring it up till after we had some official confirmation from Carey's side.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks NC Native for that info. I was getting a littel confused with Strathmoor and Strathburgh. I've got it now.

:) Yes to your question - as in Topsail Beach. My home away from Raleigh-wood.

Raisin, I agree and I believe it's because she never went running - she was dead by then. No one hascome forward and no one saw her because she never made it. I just waited to bring it up till after we had some official confirmation from Carey's side.

I figure there is some powerful reason why that statement about Nancy not running is in the ex parte - gotta seriously wonder about it. No judge alive is going to look at that and say okay I believe it or accept it on face value.

[fran]

FWIW, for anyone saying NOT to believe the salary bonus amounts as it's difficult to find wages etc on employees, eehhhhhh. Yes that is true. HOWEVER, the office grapevine of gossip is stronger than their rules of secrecy. Been there, done that.

PLUS, IF he received a bonus of even 1/2 that, IMO, (yes, opinion), I believe that Brad most likely bragged about it. He wouldn't be able to help himself. IMO, his narcissistic personality would dictate that he spread the knowledge of his success. He WAS THE MAN! (in his mind)

Ok, since it is 'rumor,' I will keep it out of the equation, but, I BET there was a bonus of sort. Which, IMO, is an additional motive for murder.:mad:

JMHO
fran

[The Saint]

remember that the medical examiner testified at one of the hearings.
his findings may point directly at brad as the prime suspect.

[fran]

Sorry - I was referring more to fran - who jumped immediately on the alleged bonus and called it the motive.

For the record - I think he did it - but I am trying to look at the posting, affidavits and "evidence" (or lack thereof) with a more critical eye.

:crazy:

FWIW, that bit of information was originally revealed in the previous thread by one who thinks he did NOT do this crime. He was trying to point out that he had NO MOTIVE as he had this additional money.

But you see, it actually works in reverse, when you're looking for a motive. It adds to it, rather than take away.

I'll leave that little gem out for now, but I'm certain we'll hear more about it in the future.

Oh, did I tell you I think he did it?:crazy:

Just sayin'
fran

[fran]

I figure there is some powerful reason why that statement about Nancy not running is in the ex parte - gotta seriously wonder about it. No judge alive is going to look at that and say okay I believe it or accept it on face value.

Especially if they were holding back Carey's signed statement at the same time?

Wonder if they're allowed to like, 'tell the judge' in the hearing verbally, without presenting the affidavit and the judge is allowed to take their word for it on the record?

WoW! Wonder if that hearing would have a transcript? THAT would be interesting.

Oh, wait, probably under seal as it involves minor children.

Still curious, though, as you say charlie.

fran

[The Saint]

NCNative,

there is no hyphen in heather's name. Scott wanted to make that very very clear!
;)

[Topsail Girl]

NCNative,

there is no hyphen in heather's name. Scott wanted to make that very very clear!
;)


Yes he did and who can blame the guy? I think I'd being taking her to court to get my name back if I was Scott. :)

ETA - I still think Scott is a little odd too for letting Brad and the girls stay with him after Brad's betrayal but hey maybe other guys are like this too???

[Ruflossn]

Hello All~

I have read through alot of these posts. Can someone please tell me if, they (LE) have released how Nancy was murdered? I can not find the info. anywhere. Also, if LE has not released the manner in which she was murdered, can someone please tell me why that might information that they would want to keep secret?

Thanks in advance for any help~
Ruflossn

[Topsail Girl]

No only that her death was a homicide. No info about how or if a weaon was used or anything.

[SleuthyGal]

MANNER: Homicide

Choices are:
- Homicide
- Suicide
- Natural Causes
- Accident
- Undetermined/Unknown

CAUSE: Info not released to the public yet

Examples are:
- blunt force trauma
- GSW (gunshot wound)
- stabbing
- asphyxiation
- strangulation
- overdose
- poisoning

[carolinalady]

And if he thought maybe she went to the gym instead of going for a run, why was her car still at the house?

At the gym I belong to in Raleigh, I know of several that run from 5 points area to it (Seaboard) and workout at the gym, then run home.

According to Mapquest, it's under 2.5 miles from the house to the gym. I've never walked/run in that area, so I have no idea how friendly the terrain would be for someone going on that route. I know many have said that Holly Springs Rd. is not runner friendly.

Just wanted to point out that not everyone drives to the gym. Someone at Lifetime should be able to verify if he came in to check on her. Perhaps they would remember his demeanor as well.

[sues]

Topsail Girl, Heather Metour has lived at [address deleted] since 2-2-2007. Her ex, Scott Heider, now lives in Raleigh near Lake Johnston (or is it Johnson?). If someone is sueing her for "alienation of affection", and the other party wins, Heather may be moving on from that house! Her name is mud around here already.

It really bothers me that someone would post this woman's exact address where she lives right now. That is just wrong, IMO, and her current address has nothing to do with the case. . Would you consider deleting or editing your post?

[DB in FV]

ruflossn,

They keep the cause of death quiet so that if someone in an interview (interrogation) slips up and says the way she was killed, there are only a couple of ways they could have that information. Either they did it, or they have talked to the person that did it.

[runr]

You take out a home equity loan b/c if your total home value is greater than your mortgage plus the amount of the loan, then you can deduct that interest as well as your mortgage interest. LOTS of people--not in financial trouble--do this.

[carolinalady]

See, this is EXACTLY the type of stuff I've been trying to say, on Brad says Nancy exaggerated,(embellished, guess it's an MBA size word for liar,:crazy:) and her friends said he did this and that,

THEN some people seem to believe Brad over the friends. Well, we know they were planning a going away party and changed it to something else. Of course Brad's explanation is they decided to work it out.

The friends said he played mind games with her by changing the rules on her. We've seen it by various friends in their affidavits, on a number of separate occasions.

Yet, many people believe him because he said it under oath.

But it still comes back for me anyway, Nancy is dead, Brad survived. I think she had a reason to be afraid of him and her MURDER is the {proof}!

JMHO
fran

Fran, I haven't said I don't believe the friends. I believe they are conveying what Nancy told them. Most of their statements are "Nancy told me this and Nancy told me that". I have been trying to objectively look at both sides of it. As I've said time and time again, Brad has put so much stuff in his affidavits/rebuttals that can either be confirmed or refuted.

[KTaylorsc]

Carolinalady...I agree with your post

Fran:
Just because Nancy is dead and Brad is alive doesn't mean he killed her.

[KTaylorsc]

Fran, I haven't said I don't believe the friends. I believe they are conveying what Nancy told them. Most of their statements are "Nancy told me this and Nancy told me that". I have been trying to objectively look at both sides of it. As I've said time and time again, Brad has put so much stuff in his affidavits/rebuttals that can either be confirmed or refuted.

I know that when I get aggrivated with my husband I tend to over exagerate about his dumbassedness. :crazy:

[RaleighNC]

In all the affidavits of NC's friends / family, has anyone seen a statement that says the person swearing to these things PERSONALLY gave Nancy Cooper money so she could buy food / clothes, etc?

I recall they all said "she was borrowing money from friends / family because Brad wouldn't give her enough to feed the children" etc. Assuming the signers of the affidavits are her "friends and family", shouldn't one of them have said "on more than one occasion, I have Nancy Cooper $200" Perhaps you wouldn't remember $20 - but really - if you had to give someone money to feed their kids that went to private preschool, drove a pair of BMWs and lived in Lochmere, wouldn't it stand out in your mind? And - they all made it sound so horrible, that I have to think it would have been more than $20 if it was a matter of eating or not, etc.

Guess I'll have to go back and look.

[KTaylorsc]

In all the affidavits of NC's friends / family, has anyone seen a statement that says the person swearing to these things PERSONALLY gave Nancy Cooper money so she could buy food / clothes, etc?

I recall they all said "she was borrowing money from friends / family because Brad wouldn't give her enough to feed the children" etc. Assuming the signers of the affidavits are her "friends and family", shouldn't one of them have said "on more than one occasion, I have Nancy Cooper $200" Perhaps you wouldn't remember $20 - but really - if you had to give someone money to feed their kids that went to private preschool, drove a pair of BMWs and lived in Lochmere, wouldn't it stand out in your mind? And - they all made it sound so horrible, that I have to think it would have been more than $20 if it was a matter of eating or not, etc.

Guess I'll have to go back and look.


I don't recall anyone saying they gave her money. I did see a few instances where her friends asked her to come stay with them.

[KTaylorsc]

another thing bothering me is the purse in the car. For someone who supposedly slept with her keys in her pants pocket and had to lock herself in her room at night, it seems quite odd that her purse would be left in the car. So I have been trying to think up a scenario for this...here's one...and I know another one was posted yesterday? I think?

Maybe the killer saw nancy getting in to her car and grabbed her? But if that's the case, someone in the neighborhood would have seen her right? Maybe not. it was early in the morning on a Saturday.

I don't know...just thinking out loud or I guess in type.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm not (yet) convinced that she was sleeping in a locked BR at night. I know it said it in one of the affidavits, but that doesn't mean it's true. Everyone is assuming that is so and then trying to figure out why her phone wasn't by her side and/or her purse.

We really don't know exactly where she slept the night before AND we don't know her movements when she came home from the party, whether she went to sleep that night or not...

All we know is that her purse was removed from her car by CPD and we assume her phone was in the car too (but that hasn't been confirmed).

[fran]

Fran, I haven't said I don't believe the friends. I believe they are conveying what Nancy told them. Most of their statements are "Nancy told me this and Nancy told me that". I have been trying to objectively look at both sides of it. As I've said time and time again, Brad has put so much stuff in his affidavits/rebuttals that can either be confirmed or refuted.

Sorry, I guess I said it wrong. I wasn't talking about YOU, but 'other' people have automatically assumed whatever Brad said is true because it's in an affidavit and can be checked for truthfulness. AND the friends are going on hear-say from Nancy.

I guess I should watch my quote button. ;)

:blowkiss:

fran

[KTaylorsc]

I'm not (yet) convinced that she was sleeping in a locked BR at night. I know it said it in one of the affidavits, but that doesn't mean it's true. Everyone is assuming that is so and then trying to figure out why her phone wasn't by her side and/or her purse.

We really don't know exactly where she slept the night before AND we don't know her movements when she came home from the party, whether she went to sleep that night or not...

All we know is that her purse was removed from her car by CPD and we assume her phone was in the car too (but that hasn't been confirmed).

ayup! That's why I said supposedly. we don't know for certain any of that stuff. :)

[d99gr81]

was brad a salaried staff employee of cisco or an independant contractor who worked out of the cisco office (like microsoft employees) who file 1099s?

for independent contractors, the aim is to lower the taxed figure by claiming
legal, legitimate deductions.

maybe brad's tax return reflected that.
maybe he hid money in offshore accounts.
$285,000 is a very hefty bonus.

did that come in december the year that he threatened suicide? maybe he felt like he didn't want to give up half that bonus in a divorce.

he may have started moving around to conceal from nancy after there was mention of divorce.

He is a salaried employee of Cisco. He nabbed the Amex account so his bonuses came quarterly. So split that 285k up in 4 payments that year.

[fran]

Carolinalady...I agree with your post

Fran:
Just because Nancy is dead and Brad is alive doesn't mean he killed her.

Well, ya got me there KTaylorsc! ;)

Kinda' like just because he was a cheater doesn't make him a murderer.
Just because they were going through a divorce, doesn't make him a murderer.
Just because she was afraid for her life, with him, doesn't make him a murderer.

Yeah, good point. EXCEPT, the odds of him being a murderer go up drastically the moment she was found dead, doncha' think?:eek:

Just sayin'
fran

[carolinalady]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.

[KTaylorsc]

Well, ya got me there KTaylorsc! ;)

Kinda' like just because he was a cheater doesn't make him a murderer.
Just because they were going through a divorce, doesn't make him a murderer.
Just because she was afraid for her life, with him, doesn't make him a murderer.

Yeah, good point. EXCEPT, the odds of him being a murderer go up drastically the moment she was found dead, doncha' think?:eek:

Just sayin'
fran

I get your point and I'm not saying he didn't do it and I'm not saying he did do it. I just simply neet more facts than Nancy's friends recount of what they perceived to have happened by what Nancy told them.

agree to disagree? :)

[KTaylorsc]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.

VERY good point...

ETA...another example of "Nancy told me..."

ETA (again) Please understand that I am in no way trying to belittle Nancy Cooper or her tragic death. All we have to go on is what she told her friends and what is in Brad's statements. I beleive there is a little of the truth in both sides.

[carolinalady]

Sorry, I guess I said it wrong. I wasn't talking about YOU, but 'other' people have automatically assumed whatever Brad said is true because it's in an affidavit and can be checked for truthfulness. AND the friends are going on here-say from Nancy.

I guess I should watch my quote button. ;)

:blowkiss:

fran

No, I wasn't saying you were directing it at me. And yes, I've said lots of times that his statement can be checked. And I've said, IF he's lying, that will be found out. I wanted to clarify my position on it.

[d99gr81]

uh huh :crazy: . He could have wiped out that 45k in cc debt pretty easy. Since the payments were spread over 4 quarters, supposedly, and he had removed all cc's from Nancy and access to the checking account, it could have disappeared quickly and with much less interest than paying over time.

But I have to say in Brad's defense - this report of earnings falls into the category of rumor and speculation still. No confirmation this is true.

Unless Nancy like he claims racked that debt up and he new he was about to get divorced. Again those are quarterly bonuses from AMEX. He did indeed get them. What he did with the bonuses is his business. What some of you are now saying is...if he got that kind of money he shouldn't care if NC wastes it? Maybe he invested who knows thats not the point I was making.

[carolinalady]

VERY good point...

ETA...another example of "Nancy told me..."

ETA (again) Please understand that I am in no way trying to belittle Nancy Cooper or her tragic death. All we have to go on is what she told her friends and what is in Brad's statements. I beleive there is a little of the truth in both sides.

I understand completely and agree.

[RaleighNC]

Well, just reviewed a bunch of affidavits.

Clea Morwick - calls NC one of her best friends
#11 "Nancy would have to borrow money from family and friends to take care of some of the girls' basic needs"
But not her....

Michael Morwick - also calls NC one of his closest friends
#12 - same statement as his wife

Michelle Simmons
#19 - said that nancy and the girls often ate over because she was out of money
(but never loaned / gave her any money)

Tim Simmons
#5 - "Brad withheld money from Nancy on several occasions which prevented her from buying food and supplied (sic) for their daughters"
(but she didn't get any money from him, either)

Didn't see similar affidavits from family - but the motion for the ex parte hearing would have mentioned that, I would think as a reason to call him unfit if he woudln't allow his children to eat....



Now, the most interesting statement comes from Jessica Adam.

From #9:
When Brad called her and asked for Carrie's number, and that Nancy hadn't come home, etc. He said he had loaded the girls in the car and was going to "head out and find Carrie"

Wouldn't you head out and try to find YOUR FREAKING WIFE? Or - say I am going to try to find "her"?

I find this to be very disturbing - almost like when LE has nabbed folks when they are already speaking about their spouse / children in the past tense when they are only "missing"..... Seems to be he knew that he was NOT going to find Nancy.

Even if they were not getting along - finding Carrie was pretty irrelevant to Brad's situation. He would have been angry at Nancy for not being around and messing with his tennis plans.... so - he's sure as heck want to find NANCY.

I think murderers ALWAYS mess up.

[carolinalady]

Hey, with all this talk of how much money he might have made, remember that people of all incomes have financial troubles.

People can very easily outspend their earnings. Many times you can qualify for more than you can actually pay back and live off of. That's what gets many people into a world of trouble.

[KTaylorsc]

which brings me to my theory on why in the world Nancy would tell her friends these things if they weren't true.

besides the infidelity (and beleive me this is a biggie) no one could understand why in the world she would want a divorce. She had two beautiful daughters, a nice house, a BMW, didn't have to work and her husband paid all the bills and gave her money to boot. So, why not throw a couple little lies in there? Her friends would never find out the real truth because they never really associated with Brad because he never came around. Maybe she wanted him to look as bad as possible so the same thing that happened with HM wouldn't happen again with another best friend.

[Roy23]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.


I think you and I both see this case about exactly the same. The affidavits do not add up from any of the parties involved. And quite frankly, some of it contradicts even realities of what we know. Nancy was not afraid Brad would hurt her children. If she was, she certainly had an odd way of showing it. I realize that almost always the husband is guilty here. And I am sure that the police are all over it. Still, I haven't heard any proof whatsoever that has been confirmed. Wish it would break soon.

[d99gr81]

we've been told Cisco paid for his MBA. Nobody does that for contract employees.

I am 100% certain that his bonus, whether it be cash or options, would have to have been disclosed to the divorce attorneys, so long as it had been awarded by settlement date.

I think a bonus > 100% of your salary is BS, and DEFINITELY a cash bonus, but that is MO.

Hey I am telling you for fact I know that he got it... I dont care if you believe me or not. I happen to work with Cisco and have long time friends who work with him at cisco. Take it for whats its worth...But he got those bonuses. He scored the biggest contract Cisco has and those bonuses or paid quarterly. I happen to be on that hasn't passed judgment yet. No surprise Fran took it and ran with it the way she did...she is convinced he did it. I provided information because it could be relevant either way.

[fran]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.


Friends of Nancy say she was a good mom. She took very good care of the girls and they were her world. But in the background she had an abusive relationship with the children's father, Brad, her husband. Nancy was afraid for HER physical being FROM the threats from Brad. NOT the children.

JMHO
fran

Effects of Domestic Violence

........................snip...................... .....

Parents who have been traumatized by violence must cope with their own trauma before they are able to help their children

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html

[fran]

Now, the most interesting statement comes from Jessica Adam.

From #9:
When Brad called her and asked for Carrie's number, and that Nancy hadn't come home, etc. He said he had loaded the girls in the car and was going to "head out and find Carrie"
Wouldn't you head out and try to find YOUR FREAKING WIFE? Or - say I am going to try to find "her"?

I find this to be very disturbing - almost like when LE has nabbed folks when they are already speaking about their spouse / children in the past tense when they are only "missing"..... Seems to be he knew that he was NOT going to find Nancy.

Even if they were not getting along - finding Carrie was pretty irrelevant to Brad's situation. He would have been angry at Nancy for not being around and messing with his tennis plans.... so - he's sure as heck want to find NANCY.

I think murderers ALWAYS mess up.

Good find! :clap:

See, it's all in the DETAILS. ;)

fran

[d99gr81]

See, this is EXACTLY the type of stuff I've been trying to say, on Brad says Nancy exaggerated,(embellished, guess it's an MBA size word for liar,:crazy:) and her friends said he did this and that,

THEN some people seem to believe Brad over the friends. Well, we know they were planning a going away party and changed it to something else. Of course Brad's explanation is they decided to work it out.

The friends said he played mind games with her by changing the rules on her. We've seen it by various friends in their affidavits, on a number of separate occasions.

Yet, many people believe him because he said it under oath.

But it still comes back for me anyway, Nancy is dead, Brad survived. I think she had a reason to be afraid of him and her MURDER is the {proof}!

JMHO
fran

Fran you refuse to see outside the box and believe its possible that NC embellished her complaints to her friends. Not saying one way or the other but having lived through it ... Hearing my ex who was awful make up stories to friends to make it sound like she was in hell when in fact was not true. Just saying you HAVE to be willing to accept that there is the possibility she was lying. Not saying she was ...but because she was murdered does not mean she was innocent... obviously she didn't deserve to die but you know what I mean.

[momto3kids]

Well, just reviewed a bunch of affidavits.


Now, the most interesting statement comes from Jessica Adam.

From #9:
When Brad called her and asked for Carrie's number, and that Nancy hadn't come home, etc. He said he had loaded the girls in the car and was going to "head out and find Carrie"

Wouldn't you head out and try to find YOUR FREAKING WIFE? Or - say I am going to try to find "her"?

I find this to be very disturbing - almost like when LE has nabbed folks when they are already speaking about their spouse / children in the past tense when they are only "missing"..... Seems to be he knew that he was NOT going to find Nancy.

Even if they were not getting along - finding Carrie was pretty irrelevant to Brad's situation. He would have been angry at Nancy for not being around and messing with his tennis plans.... so - he's sure as heck want to find NANCY.

I think murderers ALWAYS mess up.

RaleighNC...you and I are thinking along the same lines...

I understand to get into LifeTime Fitness for any reason you have to present an ID, even employee's. Why would he go there except it was close to where he supposedly was looking for NC? NC car was in the driveway, she had no cell on her, no ID I believe I read, he didn't know Carey's #, what was his purpose? He could have called LifeTime Fitness to see is she was there…but going in to ask at the desk? What would he ask that he couldn't on the phone? JA already stated NC was to paint hours before he went to LTF. Did he expect her to be laying by the pool and snuck in? He knew how hard it was to get in with no ID.

A few years ago I had an opportunity to meet someone who profiled liars (I don't know what they are called).

The 1 most important thing I learned….a chronic liar will tell you 1 part truth, 1 part lie such as 1st name correct, last name incorrect; month of birthday correct, year incorrect, etc.

A short term liar will tell you something without you even asking. They are talking to cover their axx at the time. They are also thinking you are below them and this little tidbit you missed or won't take the time to check out because you have more concerns pressing at that than to check it out.

Does this sound like someone we are discussing?

[Roy23]

Friends of Nancy say she was a good mom. She took very good care of the girls and they were her world. But in the background she had an abusive relationship with the children's father, Brad, her husband. Nancy was afraid for HER physical being FROM the threats from Brad. NOT the children.

JMHO
fran

Effects of Domestic Violence

........................snip...................... .....

Parents who have been traumatized by violence must cope with their own trauma before they are able to help their children

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html

Fran,

Some of that may be so but normally the spouse of domestic violence victims are also extremely controlling. Nancy would not be out partying to wee hours in the morning. There is so much speculation from both sides. Many say Nancy liked her social life, many say Brad belittled Nancy all the time. All we are doing is speculating. We can all see that the police are going after Brad but I can't wait to see what they have.

I kind of see Brad as a wimp. I believe he will kill himself before he goes to prision.

[FlowerChild]

You take out a home equity loan b/c if your total home value is greater than your mortgage plus the amount of the loan, then you can deduct that interest as well as your mortgage interest. LOTS of people--not in financial trouble--do this.
Could they have done this to buy the cars?
Perhaps their credit card debt BEFORE the home equity loan was $100K and they paid THAT off with the home equity money at a lower rate?
We have no idea at this time what their long term financial status was. We do know they were in some financial difficulty and were trying to reduce their debt/spending. Obviously they both lived a lifestyle they couldn't support on Brad's income - not uncommon.

They were talking divorce - the house was probably "over mortgaged" and they might even have LOST money on the sale. They had at least $45K in credit card debt. Brad had borrowed against his 401K. There's a VERY GOOD chance that the divorce would have left them BOTH in the hole. Nancy wasn't going to get enough to pay off half the BILLS and support herself and the girls AND relocate to Canada. Somebody (her family) would HAVE to help her get established again and find a job. Nancy was not going to be able to be a stay at home Mom any more - she was going to have to work. I don't know Nancy, but it may have been as much her decision as Brads to postpone her leaving - because of the MONEY problems and the RE market and the faltering economy.

As to the bonus - Brad would have been in a very high tax bracket - probably he would have taken home HALF of the alleged bonus after taxes $125K - even less if they took out a 401K contribution as well. AFTER taxes, insurance, 401K contributions Brads regular take-home pay would be about half his gross salary. If Brad and Nancy paid takes to the US and Canada they might have taken home even LESS. The IRS always gets their "due" and it's not pretty once you make over 100K a year - not to mention the penalties when your income goes up drastically in one year. Their finances look ok on paper, but I betcha they were in way over their heads and sinking fast because BOTH OF THEM wanted the champagne life on a cheap wine income. The wanna-be lifestyle - they wanna be RICH (or at least look like they are). It took BOTH of them to get into trouble and obviously they didn't agree on how to get OUT of the financial hole they were in or were embarrased to admit to friends how bad things really were.

My Opinion

[d99gr81]

Friends of Nancy say she was a good mom. She took very good care of the girls and they were her world. But in the background she had an abusive relationship with the children's father, Brad, her husband. Nancy was afraid for HER physical being FROM the threats from Brad. NOT the children.

JMHO
fran

Effects of Domestic Violence

........................snip...................... .....

Parents who have been traumatized by violence must cope with their own trauma before they are able to help their children

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html

Right...so her "Friends" would come out and say she was a horrible mother and person knowing she was just murdered? People never talk bad about the dead. Fran she had an affair too... She spent allot of money... you cant just assume with out facts that she was miss perfect because she was killed.

[momto3kids]

Oops RaleighNC this was the post I meant...

I am a firm believer in the old saying, "Actions speak louder than words."

This has been the case of BC the entire time, no action.

IMO the affidavit is as good as the paper it is written on as they say. Compare his against NC's family and friends and there are certainly some liars in the group. I'd venture to say it isn't NC side.

He called how many of NC's friends on Saturday? Only JA states he did and I don't recall her stating he asked her to call around for him to help locate NC.

So, he took off for 2 hrs instead. No one knew much about Carey, but he knew what kind of car to look for? I remember her friends saying how they very rarely saw BC, but he just happens to know what kind of car to look for?

[carolinalady]

Originally Posted by 2Daughters1Dog
we've been told Cisco paid for his MBA. Nobody does that for contract employees.

I am 100% certain that his bonus, whether it be cash or options, would have to have been disclosed to the divorce attorneys, so long as it had been awarded by settlement date.

I think a bonus > 100% of your salary is BS, and DEFINITELY a cash bonus, but that is MO.

Hey I am telling you for fact I know that he got it... I dont care if you believe me or not. I happen to work with Cisco and have long time friends who work with him at cisco. Take it for whats its worth...But he got those bonuses. He scored the biggest contract Cisco has and those bonuses or paid quarterly. I happen to be on that hasn't passed judgment yet. No surprise Fran took it and ran with it the way she did...she is convinced he did it. I provided information because it could be relevant either way.

You can definitely make bonuses > 100% salary, look no further than Bob Greczyn of BCBS NC. In 2006 his base salary was $862K and he received a bonus of $2.2M (source: http://www.newsobserver.com/680/story/549291.html). Granted he is the CEO, but it's a non-profit (I don't think their status has changed).

I can see someone pulling in a big account landing a hefty bonus (either in stock options or cash). That's the incentive to land the account.

[fran]

Fran you refuse to see outside the box and believe its possible that NC embellished her complaints to her friends. Not saying one way or the other but having lived through it ... Hearing my ex who was awful make up stories to friends to make it sound like she was in hell when in fact was not true. Just saying you HAVE to be willing to accept that there is the possibility she was lying. Not saying she was ...but because she was murdered does not mean she was innocent... obviously she didn't deserve to die but you know what I mean.

Oh, I know what you mean. Do you know what I mean?

Like, she DID end up MURDERED. Now, doesn't that just a tiny bit lean the odds in favor that Nancy was telling MORE of the truth than Brad.

A guy does NOT admit he's an abuser. He wants everyone to think he's the best thing to hit this earth since sliced bread. It's unthinkable, in his mind, that a woman would reject HIM. He certainly wouldn't want the world to know that the only reason she'd stuck it out with HIM for so long, is because he was 'holding her hostage' in the U.S.A.

Nah, I'm sorry for what you went through, but that is NOT what happened here. Not even close.

JMHO
fran

PS.....Oh, and I see outside the box. AND Brad is standing right there.:bang:

[KTaylorsc]

well, time for me to hit the road.

chat with you folks later. It's hotter than heck here today whew!

Be good

[d99gr81]

Fran,

Some of that may be so but normally the spouse of domestic violence victims are also extremely controlling. Nancy would not be out partying to wee hours in the morning. There is so much speculation from both sides. Many say Nancy liked her social life, many say Brad belittled Nancy all the time. All we are doing is speculating. We can all see that the police are going after Brad but I can't wait to see what they have.

I kind of see Brad as a wimp. I believe he will kill himself before he goes to prision.

Wimps don't do Triathlons..just saying

[Ruflossn]

ruflossn,

They keep the cause of death quiet so that if someone in an interview (interrogation) slips up and says the way she was killed, there are only a couple of ways they could have that information. Either they did it, or they have talked to the person that did it.


Thank-you for the info.
:)

[d99gr81]

Oh, I know what you mean. Do you know what I mean?

Like, she DID end up MURDERED. Now, doesn't that just a tiny bit lean the odds in favor that Nancy was telling MORE of the truth than Brad.

A guy does NOT admit he's an abuser. He wants everyone to think he's the best thing to hit this earth since sliced bread. It's unthinkable, in his mind, that a woman would reject HIM. He certainly wouldn't want the world to know that the only reason she'd stuck it out with HIM for so long, is because he was 'holding her hostage' in the U.S.A.

Nah, I'm sorry for what you went through, but that is NOT what happened here. Not even close.

JMHO
fran

PS.....Oh, and I see outside the box. AND Brad is standing right there.:bang:


Thats what I DO NOT GET.... how does it mean she was telling the truth because she was murdered???? My ex was a lair... If i had killed her... she still would have been a liar.

FRAN you have NO idea what happened here. thats the point... You are guessing but refuse to admit it...you say you know because you are taking the high percentage statistic route. Because theres not much risk in having to explain yourself when its like 90 % the significant other does it. In those cases theres HARD FACTS thats the difference here. we have none.

I'm out people have a great day.

[fran]

Right...so her "Friends" would come out and say she was a horrible mother and person knowing she was just murdered? People never talk bad about the dead. Fran she had an affair too... She spent allot of money... you cant just assume with out facts that she was miss perfect because she was killed.

Oh, I didn't say she was perfect. She was human, after all.

Ehh...but I don't believe for a NY minute that she had an affair. That is just Brad's way of trying to justify his OWN infidelity. Just like a little kid who got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. "Well, so and so had one too!"

It seems to me that you're assuming much of the case as well. You're assuming Nancy spent lots of money because you believe what he put on the affidavit. I only believe 1/2 of it. I wouldn't even be surprised if even 1/2 isn't true.

Yeah, I've stereo-typed this case. But I've seen it over and over and over. We'll most likely see another tomorrow and if not then, the next day.

Each of these guys think they're special and they're entitled and they KNOW how to get away with it because they've watched what got the others caught. But, then there's the...................

Details...................

JMHO
fran

[raisincharlie]

Well, just reviewed a bunch of affidavits.

Clea Morwick - calls NC one of her best friends
#11 "Nancy would have to borrow money from family and friends to take care of some of the girls' basic needs"
But not her....

Michael Morwick - also calls NC one of his closest friends
#12 - same statement as his wife

Michelle Simmons
#19 - said that nancy and the girls often ate over because she was out of money
(but never loaned / gave her any money)

Tim Simmons
#5 - "Brad withheld money from Nancy on several occasions which prevented her from buying food and supplied (sic) for their daughters"
(but she didn't get any money from him, either)



You might want to add Theresa Hackeling - the Dr. She admits to giving Nancy money. You also might want to look at how many of them had Nancy and the kids over for dinner - while maybe they did not contribute money, they may have provided support in different ways. Just a thought.

[Topsail Girl]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.

I don't think Nancy thought in a million years Brad would hurt THE CHILDREN. Her on the other hand is an entirely different thing. Obviously this is just my opinion bu it is based on my own similar situation. I was scared for my safety but not worried that he might do harm to my child.

[Roy23]

You might want to add Theresa Hackeling - the Dr. She admits to giving Nancy money. You also might want to look at how many of them had Nancy and the kids over for dinner - while maybe they did not contribute money, they may have provided support in different ways. Just a thought.


No doubt that they paint a really bad picture here. The police should be able to tear down Brad's affidavit really easy if all this is true.

[momto3kids]

Wow, Fran and d99gr81 boxing gloves are coming off!

Maybe I should tell what my ex did to me, since we keep hearing about the battle of ex's.

[fran]

I've actually helped a friend in need, not by offering charity, it would hurt their pride. But by having them do things around the house, paying them a decent wage and making it more of a get together type thing with talking, both of us working, stopping for a meal, etc.

IMO, that's most likely what Nancy's friends were doing with her.

Oh, yeah, just MY guess. ;)

FWIW
fran

[Roy23]

Wow, Fran and d99gr81 boxing gloves are coming off!

Maybe I should tell what my ex did to me, since we keep hearing about the battle of ex's.

Nah, don't do it. Neither situation proves anything about Brad and Nancy.

[fran]

No doubt that they paint a really bad picture here. The police should be able to tear down Brad's affidavit really easy if all this is true.

LOL, they're probably using duct tape to hold it even CLOSE together! ;)

fran

[raisincharlie]

Unless Nancy like he claims racked that debt up and he new he was about to get divorced. Again those are quarterly bonuses from AMEX. He did indeed get them. What he did with the bonuses is his business. What some of you are now saying is...if he got that kind of money he shouldn't care if NC wastes it? Maybe he invested who knows thats not the point I was making.

He would have had to pay the debt during the divorce as well - so foolishly he allows the interest to continue to build.? Sure wasn't smart was it? I don't see anywhere where anyone has said he shouldn't care if Nancy wastes it by the way. What he did with the money is indeed his business - why are you advertising his business ?

[momto3kids]

I've actually helped a friend in need, not by offering charity, it would hurt their pride. But by having them do things around the house, paying them a decent wage and making it more of a get together type thing with talking, both of us working, stopping for a meal, etc.

IMO, that's most likely what Nancy's friends were doing with her.

Oh, yeah, just MY guess. ;)

FWIW
fran

I totally agree with this. If she had no money for groceries, what better way to make sure she and kids got to eat. I wouldn't have given her money for groceries. Why, so BC could get his hands on it?

[raisincharlie]

No doubt that they paint a really bad picture here. The police should be able to tear down Brad's affidavit really easy if all this is true.

Yep, they will certainly be looking into it, just part of the investigation.

[fran]

Wow, Fran and d99gr81 boxing gloves are coming off!

Maybe I should tell what my ex did to me, since we keep hearing about the battle of ex's.

LOL, yeah, I was about to run in and get some popcorn but he had to leave work!

Maybe we can begin where we left off tomorrow. ;)

Maybe you should bring up your experience. The other party is ALIVE to tell their side if need be, right? :eek:

JMHO
fran

[Roy23]

LOL, they're probably using duct tape to hold it even CLOSE together! ;)

fran

You may be right but it is hard for me to believe that him and his attorney's are that dumb. And I still believe that he would commit Harry Carey if he knew police could prove he is a liar and a murderer.

[d99gr81]

He would have had to pay the debt during the divorce as well - so foolishly he allows the interest to continue to build.? Sure wasn't smart was it? I don't see anywhere where anyone has said he shouldn't care if Nancy wastes it by the way. What he did with the money is indeed his business - why are you advertising his business ?

BS! my ex had to take her debts with her. It all depends on the scenario. Unless you lived through it maybe find out for sure before acting is if you know. Seriously I am not trying to be rude to anyone... just hate that everyone talks like the know everything yet we have NO facts period...I HAVE NEVER said he didn't do it either. that's the difference. I am not pulling crap out of thin air ..i want facts. I guess I am just frustrated because people blindly accuse and I thought we lived in a better world then that... sorry I was wrong. I really have to go now... lol see you guys later.

[carolinalady]

I don't think Nancy thought in a million years Brad would hurt THE CHILDREN. Her on the other hand is an entirely different thing. Obviously this is just my opinion bu it is based on my own similar situation. I was scared for my safety but not worried that he might do harm to my child.

According to Theresa Hackeling's affidavit #7, Nancy told her she feared for herself and the kids. She says this was a few months ago.

So, again, if she is so fearful, why is she leaving the kids w/ Brad? That's why this part doesn't make sense to me.

[fran]

You may be right but it is hard for me to believe that him and his attorney's are that dumb. And I still believe that he would commit Harry Carey if he knew police could prove he is a liar and a murderer.

IF he did this crime, the threat of possibly being charged with perjury in addition to murder, vs getting away with murder,............well, you see what I mean.

YES, I DO believe BRAD would be that dumb. I do NOT believe the attorney would knowingly let his client commit perjury. Mainly because if he were to get caught purposely doing that, he could lose his license to practice law.

The reason Brad would do it, is he thought it was JUST for the 'child custody,' NOT relevant to his wife's murder investigation and they wouldn't have an opportunity or desire to check for accuracy.

Little did he know LE would pounce on those affidavits like crazy! Believe me, the local LE is lovin' it! EVERY little coma! ;)

JMHO
fran

[Topsail Girl]

According to Theresa Hackeling's affidavit #7, Nancy told her she feared for herself and the kids. She says this was a few months ago.

So, again, if she is so fearful, why is she leaving the kids w/ Brad? That's why this part doesn't make sense to me.


Well ya got me there, Carolinalady. I had forgotten that. I have read all the affidavits but geez it's so hard for an old lady to remember so much :crazy:

[raisincharlie]

BS! my ex had to take her debts with her. It all depends on the scenario. Unless you lived through it maybe find out for sure before acting is if you know. Seriously I am not trying to be rude to anyone... just hate that everyone talks like the know everything yet we have NO facts period...I HAVE NEVER said he didn't do it either. that's the difference. I am not pulling crap out of thin air ..i want facts. I guess I am just frustrated because people blindly accuse and I thought we lived in a better world then that... sorry I was wrong. I really have to go now... lol see you guys later.

Guess you didn't read that separation document aye ?

Here you go :

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257922/Draft_of_separation_agreement.pdf

ETA - Nancy didn't have any debts - everything was in Brad's name.

[carolinalady]

Well ya got me there, Carolinalady. I had forgotten that. I have read all the affidavits but geez it's so hard for an old lady to remember so much :crazy:

Well, I still have to go back and look to remember where I saw it. I feel like I should have all the affidavits memorized w/ the number of times I've read them. I chalk it up to mommy brain.

[Topsail Girl]

Back in the day when I joined here it was for Peterson East and West. I had a notebook that I kept handy to write stuff down. I think between the Michelle Young case and Nancy's case I'm gonna have to go back to using a notebook.

At least it would be a quick way to reference pertinent info from each affidavit and from the separation agreement as you and RC just proved :)

[SleuthyGal]

I kind of see Brad as a wimp. I believe he will kill himself before he goes to prision.

I thought the same of Scott Peterson. Never thought he'd be able to adjust to San Q. And yet, he's seem to have.

[Topsail Girl]

I thought the same of Scott Peterson. Never thought he'd be able to adjust to San Q. And yet, he's seem to have.

Unfortunately so ......

[Topsail Girl]

O/T speaking of Peterson East - check this out - if you are interested. Psychic Buys Peterson Home

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3345511/

[momto3kids]

LOL, they're probably using duct tape to hold it even CLOSE together! ;)

fran

:floorlaugh:

Next comes the rolling file bag to store the folders when they enter the court house. There will be so many folders, the client has even them confused.

Document A if they say this
Document B if this is said
Document C for this possible lie
Document D to show he was hard working...


I wonder how many files they can fit in a black rolling file bag?

[Onescout]

Good find! :clap:

See, it's all in the DETAILS. ;)

fran

I think he loaded up the kids in the car and thought about making a run for it....then decided that it could end up very badly, he stopped at the gym to make an official record of him actually looking for his wife, or to dump something there (dumpsters) and then he came back and started on his stories, hoping they hold up.


There is no reason for him to have ever gone in the car to look for Carrie, he should have been looking for his wife along her running route and at the Java Jive.

These were all red herrings he threw out there....he was thinking as fast as he could, allegedly...see everything would've been fine and bought him time if JA hadn't called the police...she messed everything up.

[ncnative]

SUES, as to my entering someone's address in these posts, that is public information either in a phone book, on the Wake County Tax/Real Property Records online. Public information. Not a secret!

[momto3kids]

I understand to get into LifeTime Fitness for any reason you have to present an ID, even employee's. Why would he go there except it was close to where he supposedly was looking for NC? NC car was in the driveway, she had no cell on her, no ID I believe I read, he didn't know Carey's #, what was his purpose? He could have called LifeTime Fitness to see is she was there…but going in to ask at the desk? What would he ask that he couldn't on the phone? JA already stated NC was to paint hours before he went to LTF. Did he expect her to be laying by the pool and snuck in? He knew how hard it was to get in with no ID.

A few years ago I had an opportunity to meet someone who profiled liars (I don't know what they are called).

The 1 most important thing I learned….a chronic liar will tell you 1 part truth, 1 part lie such as 1st name correct, last name incorrect; month of birthday correct, year incorrect, etc.

A short term liar will tell you something without you even asking. They are talking to cover their axx at the time. They are also thinking you are below them and this little tidbit you missed or won't take the time to check out because you have more concerns pressing at that than to check it out.

Does this sound like someone we are discussing?

OneScout...I posted this a few pages back...

No reason at all to go by LTF. I guess it is the only way he could prove he was looking for BC, get his picture on video.

What did he say to the lady? I am missing my wife and I want to go play tennis?

Is this not a red flag to anyone else?

[DB in FV]

If Nancy's cell phone was in the house or the car, couldn't Brad have used it to call Carey? It seems that Nancy would probably have had her number.

I just read the separation agreement for the first time, and I have to say that it reads like possible motive. $2100/month for child support, an undetermined amount for alimony, paying every debt that they incurred, paying for everything for the kids (including private school).

[momto3kids]

If Nancy's cell phone was in the house or the car, couldn't Brad have used it to call Carey? It seems that Nancy would probably have had her number.

I just read the separation agreement for the first time, and I have to say that it reads like possible motive. $2100/month for child support, an undetermined amount for alimony, paying every debt that they incurred, paying for everything for the kids (including private school).


Last night this was the discussion, the cell phone. Many felt they heard JA state on the 911 say it was in the car when they listened.

We also discussed if this was alone, in the purse as well as placed there by BC to use as an excuse why he couldn't get ahold of Nancy.

[raisincharlie]

I do wonder why he went by there since he was asking for a phone number from JA and he said he called Nancy's friends. It seems a minute or two to make another call would have worked okay rather than spending the time to drive and taking the risk of leaving the kids in the car while he went in to check. Red flag , not sure really.

[momto3kids]

Okay, just getting caught up, but something from NC #16 caught my eye -- BC checking Lifetime for NC. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive because I personally avoid exercise, but if you just finished a run, would you then go to a gym, especially if you had plans to meet a friend? BC knew all of this BEFORE he checked Lifetime for her. Why check there? :waitasec:

You are absolutely correct. Another red flag IMO.

[momto3kids]

I do wonder why he went by there since he was asking for a phone number from JA and he said he called Nancy's friends. It seems a minute or two to make another call would have worked okay rather than spending the time to drive and taking the risk of leaving the kids in the car while he went in to check. Red flag , not sure really.

To put himself on video to show he was looking:rolleyes:IMO

[Bob&Bob]

Does anyone know when BC made his plans to play tennis?

[raisincharlie]

To put himself on video to show he was looking:rolleyes:IMO

Quite possible, but surely his phone records would have done the same - confirm he at least called - he seems to rely on those records a good deal. It does seem strange he would go there and go inside to find out, and he would have to go in no doubt. I do think there is something with Lifetime, just not sure what it is.

[raisincharlie]

Does anyone know when BC made his plans to play tennis?

I haven't heard anything about when he made those plans but it is an interesting question.

[momto3kids]

Does anyone know when BC made his plans to play tennis?

No B&B, I haven't read who it was either.

Wonder why this person didn't do an affidavit for BC/

[Anderson]

One of the things that we know for sure is that this was not random. Who else could possibly be a suspect? Now, let me be clear, I am not saying that he necessarily did it. I don't know. But, I really don't think that it is related to an affair that NC may have had, as some have suggested. The only affair that Brad cites NC having took place many years ago and it sounds more like she went for a drink with someone that she was perhaps attracted to.

I know that at one point his lawyers emphasized that BC was not a suspect or a person of interest. However, they have received search warrants for his office since then. The lawyers have also put up a website asking for information on NC. This is a proactive communications strategy. I also wonder how BC KNOWS that the autopsy results would clear him. What if the murder was planned in such a way that it would clear him? Not that I know what that would look like. We obviously need much more information.

Nancy got back from a holiday with her family only 5 days before this happened. She may have come back with a plan that he got wind of. Her family certainly responded quickly and this may be why. I don't follow all cases, so correct me if I am wrong, but I can't remember a case like it. Her friends and family, the people that she was confiding in at this difficult time, took action very quickly. I think that this speaks volumes.

Just some thoughts

[fran]

Does anyone know when BC made his plans to play tennis?

when he was making out his affidavit?:rolleyes:

j/k

Hi B&B

:)
fran

[MCDRAW]

You might want to add Theresa Hackeling - the Dr. She admits to giving Nancy money. You also might want to look at how many of them had Nancy and the kids over for dinner - while maybe they did not contribute money, they may have provided support in different ways. Just a thought.


I just want to add my two cents into "his not giving her money". I have two brothers both divorced. One ex sister in law is a pro at getting people to feel sorry for her she lives off people. She doesn't have a job. When people catch on to her she moves to a new community and starts again. The other sister in law called and asked my brother to pay a bill for her. He gave her the money then she called back and said she didn't get to pay the bill because she had gone shopping. I'm not saying that Nancy participated in this type of behavior. I have just seen it occur. They also tell their friends and families how my brothers don't help them.

[Bob&Bob]

I don't think it's so desolate back in The Oaks at Meadowridge.

There are houses.

Guy out walking his dog. That picture of the jogging man.

[Anderson]

I just want to add my two cents into "his not giving her money". I have two brothers both divorced. One ex sister in law is a pro at getting people to feel sorry for her she lives off people. She doesn't have a job. When people catch on to her she moves to a new community and starts again. The other sister in law called and asked my brother to pay a bill for her. He gave her the money then she called back and said she didn't get to pay the bill because she had gone shopping. I'm not saying that Nancy participated in this type of behavior. I have just seen it occur. They also tell their friends and families how my brothers don't help them.

Nancy couldn't work in North Carolina. Even if she did engage in "this behaviour," I think that there must have been a grain of truth in her friend's statements. For example, BC admits that he was concerned about her spending habits. That seems more important from my point of view. He may have been right to be concerned about their finances. But this not justify the outcome, IF he did do this. That is what I am focusing on.

[raisincharlie]

One of the things that we know for sure is that this was not random. Who else could possibly be a suspect? Now, let me be clear, I am not saying that he necessarily did it. I don't know. But, I really don't think that it is related to an affair that NC may have had, as some have suggested. The only affair that Brad cites NC having took place many years ago and it sounds more like she went for a drink with someone that she was perhaps attracted to.

I know that at one point his lawyers emphasized that BC was not a suspect or a person of interest. However, they have received search warrants for his office since then. The lawyers have also put up a website asking for information on NC. This is a proactive communication strategy. I also wonder how BC KNOWS that the autopsy results would clear him. What if the murder was planned in such a way that it would clear him? Not that I know what that would look like. We obviously need much more information.

Nancy got back from a holiday with her family only 5 days before this happened. She may have come back with a plan that he got wind of. Her family certainly responded quickly and this may be why. I don't follow all cases, so correct me if I am wrong, but I can't remember a case like it. Her friends and family, the people that she was confiding in at this difficult time, took action very quickly. I think that this speaks volumes.

Just some thoughts

Anderson you have some very good thoughts.

As to your last paragraph - just my thought but I do believe Nancy and her parents had made some plans during that vacation shortly before her death. I can't exactly explain why I think this other than it started with watching her Father saying he wasn't worried and her Mother saying she was worried. We know that in Brad's affidavits alone - there were emails between him and Nancy's Father - the man knew what was going on and was actively involved in helping in any way he could apparently. Things did indeed happen very quickly and all I can say about that is WOW.

As to the autopsy report - my belief is this was a calculated attempt in that they knew it would not happen. Lawyers in that area have to know it takes Chapel Hill at least a couple of months to complete a report. Search warrants served at Brad's house - the lawyer had to figure LE and the DA might also do the same with the autopsy report - seal it. What is interesting and supports this a bit further is Brad's lawyer also requested the notes - not just the report. This is telling because this information is never made public and is never sh