Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #16

[YellowDog]

Thanks Sheza. I can't even imagine. I hope they find some peace.

Do you know where they moved to? Are they leaving the Weleetka area completely or just moving to another house?

[sheza]

Do you know where they moved to? Are they leaving the Weleetka area completely or just moving to another house?

I'm not sure, Henryetta I had heard.

[c2cd208]

Ok were stopped for the night and it is easier to type now. I do not know where we will be sent this week. I know the last two weeks we went West, if we are sent that way again this week I will see print a flyer and put it up on the board at the TS. I have a printer in the truck so thats not a problem at all.

As far as the tatoo is concerned, I truely believe it is a home made tatoo. The being point up is strange though. Almost like maybe she did it herself. Think about this, if you were drawing something you are going to draw it right side up as you are looking down at that you are drawing it on. This tatoo was on her breast, so if sSHE did it herself she would be looking down at her breast and drawing it right side up from her view which in our view would be upside down. Make sense?

[FlowerChild]

snips/transcript & Audio http://www-cgi.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/index.html?iref=24hours (http://www-cgi.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/12/nancy.grace/index.html?iref=24hours)

GRACE: What happened that day? When did you see your granddaughter Skyla?

FARROW: Actually, I didn't see her. I'd seen her body. Her body was covered. And I never got any closer than 50 feet to her. They wouldn't let me any closer.

GRACE: When did you learn of this -- this murder?

FARROW: Well, Sunday afternoon. My daughter was the second person to arrive on the scene. And the daddy of Taylor wouldn't let her near Skyla. And she called us at our home, and we flew over there to see about her because we knew something was drastically wrong. So it was Sunday afternoon, probably 5:20.
A point was made saying that my source was wrong about what Claudia saw - well the above says exactly what MY SOURCES (I had more than one on this fact, BTW) said, Claudia was not closer than 50 FEET to Skyla at the scene - and WOW, Claudia herself says she wasn't any closer than 50 feet - she was BEHIND THE TAPE - just as my sources in Weleetka said. My source has not been wrong on any FACT I have gotten from him yet - he has also passed along local rumors, which I have clearly stated as rumors - but this was not a rumor. He knew for a fact that Claudia Farrow was NOT allowed to see Skyla's body at the scene - nobody but LE got near those girls once Peter walked away to meet Rose Whitaker and it was so bad for Peter he didn't even want to talk about what he saw.

I for one cannot imagine ANYONE wanting to see those sweet angels that way - I think I would want to have my last memory be of them alive and smiling - not bloody and bullet riddled left alongside the road.

BTW I will talk to my "source" tomorrow and see if there is any news in Weleetka - last I talked to him he said there was some interest in a few local young men that they have not been able to um...locate. I will find out if they have been able to talk to any of them yet. I will say that according to my source OSBI and Local and State LE are ACTIVELY WORKING this case every day - this is not a cold case and they all feel it's solvable.

My Opinion

[Busylady]

It was on Greta that Claudia specifically list the wounds and the guaze on the arm, stating that the cover was pulled back. Unfortunately I cannot find the transcript for it. If you go back through the threads on this case there are several posters who heard the interview and discussed it.

[cloudajo]

It was on Greta that Claudia specifically list the wounds and the guaze on the arm, stating that the cover was pulled back. Unfortunately I cannot find the transcript for it. If you go back through the threads on this case there are several posters who heard the interview and discussed it.


Yes it was on Greta, June 12 I believe. Claudia saw Skyla at the funeral home. The ME had just released Skyla's body to the family. The gauze on the wounds would make sense because it was after the autopsy.

[cloudajo]

2 separate interviews with Claudia describing two separate occassions – one was the Nancy Grace show, where she described what she saw at the crime scene on June 8th (ref TG’s link above); one was on the Greta Van Susteren show, where she described what she saw at the funeral home on June 11th (Skyla’s wounds, gauze, etc.). There is no transcript for the Greta show, only posts about it on 3 different forums and a reference to Skyla’s grandparents seeing her at the funeral home (link below).

Bottom line is, Claudia was being truthful about what she saw at two separate times.

-----------------
Thurs, June 12th Article:
For Skyla's family, Wednesday was the hardest day. Forensic investigators returned the girl's body to a funeral home, giving her mother, father and grandparents their first chance to see her since her death.

http://newsok.com/for-slain-weleetka-girls-kin-pain-keeps-coming/article/3256335/?tm=1213280045 (http://newsok.com/for-slain-weleetka-girls-kin-pain-keeps-coming/article/3256335/?tm=1213280045)

[evelyn24]

I do not think Claudia specified that she saw the wounds and gauze at the funeral home on Greta.
As a matter of fact she didn't say the funeral home during her Greta interview. I know this because I've been following these threads since #1, and when Claudia talked about the "under the chin" shot and the gauze on Greta, everybody here started asking why gauze was on the wounds at the crime scene. I think we were confused because Greta was asking about the day of the shootings and the bodies being found, and that is when Claudia mentioned the wound and the gauze. It was unclear she was talking about viewing Skyla at the funeral home.
She probably meant she saw the body at the funeral home, but it was not specified on Greta that's what she meant.


Again...this is not really relevant to solving this case, it's just people here getting defensive over who is right and wrong.
I think we can now say for certain that Claudia in noway saw the bodies at the crime scene, but most likely saw Skyla's "under the chin" wound and the gauze at the funeral home, and that's what she was talking about on Greta.

[SeriouslySearching]

Evelyn, with all due respect...it isn't about being right or wrong. It is about trusting information from outside sources here and discussing it as factual information which we have been doing since FC introduced it. It brings into question if the other information is inaccurate and biased as well. We have threads of discussion from this "source" and I merely pointed out that source could very well be both of those things so spreading nothing but rumors about the grandmother. I just think we need to make sure people know what is rumor and what is not.

[SeriouslySearching]

Ok were stopped for the night and it is easier to type now. I do not know where we will be sent this week. I know the last two weeks we went West, if we are sent that way again this week I will see print a flyer and put it up on the board at the TS. I have a printer in the truck so thats not a problem at all.

As far as the tatoo is concerned, I truely believe it is a home made tatoo. The being point up is strange though. Almost like maybe she did it herself. Think about this, if you were drawing something you are going to draw it right side up as you are looking down at that you are drawing it on. This tatoo was on her breast, so if sSHE did it herself she would be looking down at her breast and drawing it right side up from her view which in our view would be upside down. Make sense?Makes perfect sense to me. I agree she very well could have done this herself especially after finding the scab for the Z elsewhere. Kids just want to grow up so fast in today's world and, unfortunately, tattoos are permanent. A good reason why it is illegal for 18 yo and under to get them!

[SeriouslySearching]

I was Claycats source on the truck/Dustin rumor.. I felt SS had called me a liar.... Drive to Weleetka, stop have a cup of coffee, you will hear the same.
If you don't want to hear Weleetka rumors/theories... so be it.
Everything Flowerchild has said to be rumor I have heard around town also.

Rose is working now at Graham School (fact).No...actually...that isn't the information I was questioning at all. I would like you to find out what year that truck is tho!!

[Okie ties]

Questions for.....

Sheza.. What is your opinion of the black heart tattoo above Taylor's breast and the "Z" markings? There has been some obvious debate about "high school musical" vs "gang symbolism". Is it common for children in the area to have tats?

Missing Sarah... Welcome. I found the exchange between you and Sheza interesting. Were you alluding to something when you made the comment about the Fox show saying, Mkes a person think twice about what people are really capable of doing to loved ones. and your comment I really can't see young kids having the ability to successfully disguard two guns, bloody clothing, and hide their feelings from family members? Just in case you are close to one of the families, please let them know that we are praying fervently for the truth to be revealed and the killer to be behind bars.

[YellowDog]

Does anyone know if there is still friction between the victims families and, if so, it it because the Plackers allowed Skyla to go for that walk down the country road with Taylor? Just wondering if that is something for which Skyla's family might not have approved.

[sheza]

Questions for.....

Sheza.. What is your opinion of the black heart tattoo above Taylor's breast and the "Z" markings? There has been some obvious debate about "high school musical" vs "gang symbolism". Is it common for children in the area to have tats?

Missing Sarah... Welcome. I found the exchange between you and Sheza interesting. Were you alluding to something when you made the comment about the Fox show saying, Mkes a person think twice about what people are really capable of doing to loved ones. and your comment I really can't see young kids having the ability to successfully disguard two guns, bloody clothing, and hide their feelings from family members? Just in case you are close to one of the families, please let them know that we are praying fervently for the truth to be revealed and the killer to be behind bars.

Taylors clubhouse outback > "high school musical"

[annie mae]

Just a very very humble opinion: I looked at Taylor's Memorial Book to ck out the "clown pic" and went on to look at Jennifer's pic. Taylor and Jennifer look alike imo.

[SailorMoon]

My daughters thought that she thought it was kids is very unsettling to me. I just can't imagine kids doing this and then going on and not batting an eye. Although that would explain the silence and no info. Maybe a parent does have their suspicions and figures that since the girls are gone, nothing can be done to change that, why ruin their kids live as well? But you know.....how could you think that and protect your kid, because if they did it...who knows what else they are capable of and have done. I wonder what kids have started counseling and have started mental check ups as well. Although...I think I'd move away. So it would behoove LE to check out what kids have moved and transfered and are doing the online studies now, if they didn't before.

[sheza]

Just a very very humble opinion: I looked at Taylor's Memorial Book to ck out the "clown pic" and went on to look at Jennifer's pic. Taylor and Jennifer look alike imo.

I understand Taylor's mom to be Jennifer Pascal Johnson.

[Busylady]

Thank you. So Jennifer Juanita Paschal (vickies daughter) is then believed to be Taylors mom. Pretty much what we have been thinking but that information helps thank you!

I understand Taylor's mom to be Jennifer Pascal Johnson.

[SailorMoon]

Is there a pic in the pics link of her?? Sorry-at work and want to see it now!!

I understand Taylor's mom to be Jennifer Pascal Johnson.

[sheza]

Does anyone know if there is still friction between the victims families and, if so, it it because the Plackers allowed Skyla to go for that walk down the country road with Taylor? Just wondering if that is something for which Skyla's family might not have approved.

Close friends of the Whitaker's has said Rose would not allow Skyla to walk a half mile from their own home to a cousins house, Rose would drive her and pick her up.

[SailorMoon]

Wow...don't know how you could really be mad. A pain that I don't know..yes. But it wasn't like they let the girls walk through Compton at 1am.

Did the girls frequently spend the night at each other's house, as we have heard??

Close friends of the Whitaker's has said Rose would not allow Skyla to walk a half mile from their own home to a cousins house, Rose would drive her and pick her up.

[annie mae]

I am quite sure you are right. I am so cunfused by all the names that it was NOT Jennifer in the Guestbook it is Jessica, which I think does favor Taylor imo. It has been a chore to keep up with all the Plackers, etc. after reading all posts. TRuly sorry for my mistake.

[sheza]

Questions for.....

Sheza.. What is your opinion of the black heart tattoo above Taylor's breast and the "Z" markings? There has been some obvious debate about "high school musical" vs "gang symbolism". Is it common for children in the area to have tats?

Missing Sarah... Welcome. I found the exchange between you and Sheza interesting. Were you alluding to something when you made the comment about the Fox show saying, Mkes a person think twice about what people are really capable of doing to loved ones. and your comment I really can't see young kids having the ability to successfully disguard two guns, bloody clothing, and hide their feelings from family members? Just in case you are close to one of the families, please let them know that we are praying fervently for the truth to be revealed and the killer to be behind bars.

NO it is not common for a 13 yr old to have a Tatoo (maybe a family member was a tatoo artist?)
A neighbor of mine said Taylor's clubhouse had posters up of TV stars (neighbor is 84 yrs old)

[Tom'sGirl]

Thank you. So Jennifer Juanita Paschal (vickies daughter) is then believed to be Taylors mom. Pretty much what we have been thinking but that information helps thank you!
Yes we have, and posted about it last month here (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2323031&postcount=9)

[sheza]

I have to go to work.. Thank you WS for letting me chat with you.

[Tom'sGirl]

I have to go to work.. Thank you WS for letting me chat with you.

We aren't chatting on this link, but know you probably meant discuss and post.

We do however have another link/thread here in this Forum for Chit/Chat if anyone is interested, in fact we have many others.

[little726]

[Choate said the Okmulgee County Sheriff's Office contacted his department shortly after 4 p.m. after receiving a 911 call]

I realize we have been discussing the girls autopsies,but the statement above has been bothering me since I read it. It was printed June 10th, in the Tulsa World newspaper.

Did anyone else notice it? Does anyone else have questions as to the TIME that is stated?

All of us have noticed that sheriff Choate hasn't said a word since.

Could this be a "misprint"?

Thanks for hearing me out.

[Tom'sGirl]

[Choate said the Okmulgee County Sheriff's Office contacted his department shortly after 4 p.m. after receiving a 911 call]

I realize we have been discussing the girls autopsies,but the statement above has been bothering me since I read it. It was printed June 10th, in the Tulsa World newspaper.

Did anyone else notice it? Does anyone else have questions as to the TIME that is stated?

All of us have noticed that sheriff Choate hasn't said a word since.

Could this be a "misprint"?

Thanks for hearing me out.
You didn't post a link to where you read this, but obviously it was a misprint.

Here's the Video from 6-10-08 http://www.koco.com/video/16562436/index.html?taf=okl and no where does it state 4:00 p.m.

[YellowDog]

Close friends of the Whitaker's has said Rose would not allow Skyla to walk a half mile from their own home to a cousins house, Rose would drive her and pick her up.


Thanks Sheza. That's what I was wondering about.

[FlowerChild]

Thank you. So Jennifer Juanita Paschal (vickies daughter) is then believed to be Taylors mom. Pretty much what we have been thinking but that information helps thank you!

Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's brother Tony's daughter. Vicky's Jennifer is NOT the same, her middle initial is M I believe. Jennifer M is about 30/31 years old, Jennifer Juanita is 33/34. They ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. It is confusing to have TWO Jennifer Paschals but one is Vicky's and one is Tony's.

My Opinion

[Missing Sarah]

With this case slowing dying, I am going to focus on the latest missing persons case in Okfuskee. Sheza, is this new case being discussed on WS ?

[little726]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_hThetw874180

TG......are you having a bad day today?

[little726]

With this case slowing dying, I am going to focus on the latest missing persons case in Okfuskee. Sheza, is this new case being discussed on WS ?

Hi, Sarah. Sheza posted she was on her way to work. Hope she comes back later with some news.

[Claycat]

No...actually...that isn't the information I was questioning at all. I would like you to find out what year that truck is tho!!

I believe Sheza told me it was '96 - '98 year trucks LE was looking at.

[Missing Sarah]

Lets just overlook her seems she has an anger issue.

[Missing Sarah]

Thank you little, I missed her post.:)

[little726]

Thank you little, I missed her post.:)

You are welcome, Sarah.

I am at the end of my rope being treated like I'm stupid!!!!

Is Christine the only moderator here?

[Missing Sarah]

This is all new to me, Sheza directed me to this site. I not aware of what is or isn't allowed to type. I was mainly wanting to read up on the missing woman from Paden, Ok. I will just keep looking.

[Claycat]

Little, you are not stupid! I like reading your posts.

Missing Sarah, if you don't find a post on the missing woman, make a thread for it. We would like to hear about her!

[little726]

This is all new to me, Sheza directed me to this site. I not aware of what is or isn't allowed to type. I was mainly wanting to read up on the missing woman from Paden, Ok. I will just keep looking.

Sarah, she didn't mention anything about it. Do you have any other details?

[Claycat]

Missing Sarah, it is already posted here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68758

[little726]

Little, you are not stupid! I like reading your posts.

Missing Sarah, if you don't find a post on the missing woman, make a thread for it. We would like to hear about her!

:blowkiss: Thank you, Claycat.

A person can only take so much.......:mad:!

[Ann Fan]

For what it is worth, I too saw the interview where the gauze pads were mentioned and the placement of the wounds was described - It had to have been on Nancy Grace or Greta - and I took it at the time that the lady describing them was actually at the scene when she saw them - she did say they had gauze pads on them. I remember thinking at the time 'where on earth was the LE or what were they thinking to allow anyone that close to the crime scene to contaminate it?' I fully expected the host of the show (I thought Nancy Grace but may have been Greta) would jump all over that statement for the mere fact that LE had allowed family that close to a gruesome scene but nothing was said along those lines -

Does anyone know when the locals are supposed to bring their guns in for testing? I agree that it will be interesting to see who does not show up. Or if in case it was a teenager that did it with daddy's gun unbeknownst to the dad, who runs away from home after the gun turn in.

Also, at first when they acted like they had possible suspects (teens) - some people said on one of these threads that LE couldn't locate some - does anyone know if they have been located?

One last thing that has been on my mind - in one picture that shows the close proximity of the grandparents driveway to the crime scene- there appears to be a white truck in the driveway. If it was there that day could it have been the one the eye witness saw? It seemed close enough to the crime scene - maybe that is where the witness saw the truck and got it confused -

Just wondering out loud. If I am off on any information I am sorry in advance - Have a great day to all of you.

[Claycat]

Ann Fan, I heard it was August 17-19 that they were checking guns.

[Tom'sGirl]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_hThetw874180

TG......are you having a bad day today?
What was that supposed to mean :confused:

[Ann Fan]

Ann Fan, I heard it was August 17-19 that they were checking guns.


Thanks Clay Cat - I hope it stirs up something. It seems as if we go day to day to day hoping and praying for any little bit of info that tells us they are getting close to solving this. Thanks again!:)

[Tom'sGirl]

Missing Sarah, it is already posted here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68758
Thanks Clay for showing her the link.

It's sometimes hard for 'newbies' to know where to navigate at WS if they're not used to a site like this.

[Missing Sarah]

Thank you, you two are sweethearts. I don't have many details just what was reported on the news. Michelle Davis 31 missing from Paden. Her car and purse found on highway 62 between Boley and Paden. So So sad

[Claycat]

Thanks Clay for showing her the link.

It's sometimes hard for 'newbies' to know where to navigate at WS if they're not used to a site like this.

You're welcome!

[Tom'sGirl]

You are welcome, Sarah.

I am at the end of my rope being treated like I'm stupid!!!!

Is Christine the only moderator here?
If for any reason you feel a post is offensive, just hit the alert tab up near your post # http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/report.php?p=2484511).

Not all MODS can be online 24/7, but another MOD may be able to help you with a problem post.

[little726]

If for any reason you feel a post is offensive, just hit the alert tab up near your post # http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/report.php?p=2484511).

Not all MODS can be online 24/7, but another MOD may be able to help you with a problem post.

Thank you, TG. I'll file your information for future reference :).

I am also going to PM you a little later.

[Albert18]

Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's brother Tony's daughter. Vicky's Jennifer is NOT the same, her middle initial is M I believe. Jennifer M is about 30/31 years old, Jennifer Juanita is 33/34. They ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. It is confusing to have TWO Jennifer Paschals but one is Vicky's and one is Tony's.

My Opinion

So is the Jennifer Paschal Johnson that Sheza mentioned Jennifer M?

[Tom'sGirl]

Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's brother Tony's daughter. Vicky's Jennifer is NOT the same, her middle initial is M I believe. Jennifer M is about 30/31 years old, Jennifer Juanita is 33/34. They ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. It is confusing to have TWO Jennifer Paschals but one is Vicky's and one is Tony's.

My Opinion
To add to the confusion there also is a Jennifer Paschal who is 57 listed :)

Here's the info. and age of J.J. Paschal

PASCHAL, JENNIFER JUANITA (Age 32)
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gifAssociated names:
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif
CUSTER, JENNIFER J
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK

Possible Relatives:
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif
PASCHAL, TONY C

As per Veromi.net/PulicRecords

http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif

[Claycat]

This is interesting.

http://www.koco.com/video/17138595/index.html

[Okie ties]

This is the information I found on the two Jennifer M Paschal's in the state of Oklahoma. IMO, the information is generally very accurate from Intelius.


Jennifer Marie Paschal age 33
PREVIOUS ADDRESSES:
Yukon, OK
Raeford, NC
Cushing, OK
San Antonio, TX
El Paso, TX
RELATIVES:
Christopher E Paschal
Chris Paschal
Lynda K Paschal

Jennifer M Paschal age 31
PREVIOUS ADDRESSES:
Oklahoma City, OK
Nichols Hills, OK
San Francisco, CA
Waco, TX
RELATIVES:
John Mark Paschal
William Paschal
Linda Patterson Paschal
L P Paschal
Allen West Paschal
Adrienne S Paschal

PS. The 2nd Jennifer Paschal graduated from Casady High school, a very affluent private school and lived in Nichols Hills. This is not the mother of Taylor.

[Okie ties]

FYI.
Jennifer Marie Paschall's DOB is 02/23/75
Jennifer J Paschall's (Tony's daughter) DOB is 10/6/75.

[FlowerChild]

Thanks Okie ties!!! :clap:

I knew I'd read it, didn't have time to find it online or in my notes today - I had the BD's wrong in my mind, but I knew the Jennifer Juanita was Tony's and the Jennifer M was Vicky's. It's really EASY to get confused - PLUS there are a whole OTHER set of related Paschals (the set Jessica from the guest book is in) - they are children and grandchildren of Joel and Lorene Paschal - Joel is Carl Paschal's Brother. Carl and Ruby Paschal are Vicky and Tony Paschal's parents. Oh and we assume that Ruby Paschal was Joe Mosher's mother, before she married Carl or Joe was adopted by the Paschal's from someone named Mosher? It's the only way he (Joe Mosher) can be Vicky's brother, which she and he say he is.....

Joel and Lorene had 6 kids - Jimmy Carl, Troy J, Cecil Lee, Patricia (Walker/Sexton), Esther and John Eugene. There are a few ne'r do wells in THAT bunch of Paschal's as well - a couple currently in prison, a couple formerly in prison etc.

Geesh, it takes a whole NOTEBOOK just to keep the various players in this mess straight!!!

My Opinion

[Albert18]

Skyla's autopsy is hard to digest but it looks to me like Skyla was shot mostly from the back. She must have had time to spin and was gunned down. This must be why the shots are much more wild on her than Taylor.

What I can't figure out is which shots to Skyla were from the larger weapon.

If I understand the shots these are the entrance wounds and trajectory:

#1. Back of right arm from back and left(her left). This is the one that broke her arm. I wonder if this wasn't the larger weapon. Could this be the proof that there were two shooters. Right after the smaller gun started shooting at Taylor the other shooter opened up on Skyla???? If there was only one shooter, the wild shots on Skyla should be from the smaller weapon because it appears that was the weapon used first on Taylor. This is going to take some thought.

#2. Back of right arm, flesh wound, from back and left.

#3. Left shoulder in the back. Slightly forward, downward and to the right. This is very high on her left shoulder.

#4. Back of left arm from back going downward and to the right.

#5. Right front chest going slightly backward, slightly upward and to the left. This is the one where they recovered the bullet. I wonder if this is the larger weapon.

#6. Front chest going slightly backward, upward to the left. I'm still a bit confused by this one.

#7. Front abdomen from front going back, downward and to the right. This was where she was shot in the stomach.

#8. Under the right jaw line, going slightly backward and to the left. This is the one with the powder burns on her skin but not around the wound. I think this is specifying a distance, close but not inches.

I probably made some mistakes so I will have to draw this out better to see if everything matches. I think one of the problems is that one of the back/front drawings on the autopsy is showing the holes in the clothes, not the body.

I don't quite understand #6 yet. It says it has an atypical exit wound and I think that is because the exit wound has an abrasion ring and only entrance wounds usually have abrasion rings.

I'm sorry if this is confusing but I am in a hurry. I am assuming all of the rights and lefts are referring to Skyla's right and left, not the shooter's.

[Busylady]

Well all I know is birth records indicate the following

Jennifer M Paschal 2/23/1975 mother is Lynda (Frances) Paschal 9/26/1947 and her father is Charles Eugene Paschal 1/24/1943 they were married in Grayson Texas 3/28/1969. But ya know it doesnt matter no matter what birth records show you are gonna say you are right and this is wrong so I give up!

Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's brother Tony's daughter. Vicky's Jennifer is NOT the same, her middle initial is M I believe. Jennifer M is about 30/31 years old, Jennifer Juanita is 33/34. They ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. It is confusing to have TWO Jennifer Paschals but one is Vicky's and one is Tony's.

My Opinion

[FlowerChild]

Per my buddy in Weleetka these are local people LE would like to talk to - the Southerns live (most of the time) less than 2 miles from the crime scene near the Keloughs off Bryant Road.

Tavis B Southern is married to Crystal Harris - Crystal's brother is Dillon Harris. Crystal and Dillon's mother (deceased) was Gail Kelough.

Evidently the Southerns are proving somewhat difficult to find as of late.

The list is
David Eugene Southern DOB 5-10-76
David (Davie) Wayne Southern DOB 4-1-65
Donnie Southern (no info)
Tavis B Southern DOB 6-3-83

Associated are:
Dillon Scott Harris DOB 7-10-83
Crystal Harris (currently incarcerated) DOB 2-1-85

Incarceration history available:

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=243461&offender_book_id=134566

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=385943&offender_book_id=204946

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=421780&offender_book_id=234042

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=512524&offender_book_id=302018

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=522313&offender_book_id=308812

The Harris kids seem to have drug problems and Dillon has assault charges too, the Southern Boys seem to have more of a burglary, assault, theft history although they do seem to get arrested with guns in their vehicles....

This is just information rumored to be asked about by local LE as they go around trying to locate people they'd like to talk to. It does NOT MEAN these people are POI's or suspects, LE would just like to talk to them.

My Opinion

[FlowerChild]

Well all I know is birth records indicate the following

Jennifer M Paschal 2/23/1975 mother is Lynda (Frances) Paschal 9/26/1947 and her father is Charles Eugene Paschal 1/24/1943 they were married in Grayson Texas 3/28/1969. But ya know it doesnt matter no matter what birth records show you are gonna say you are right and this is wrong so I give up!

You are obviously correct on THAT Jennifer M Paschal, but I do know that Jennifer Juanita's parents are Tony Carl Paschal and Linda Jenkins Paschal. Jennifer Juanita is NOT Vicky Paschal's daughter based on the information I have. If you find something different please post it because I have Jennifer Juanita as Tony and Linda's daughter.

Facts are facts, can't argue them - but I cannot find ANY information that Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's child - only that she is Tony and Linda's child.

My Opinion

[Albert18]

Unless I am blind I don't think whoever made the drawings on the autopsy report for Skyla noted the entrance wound for wound #6. This bullet must have entered her lower right side and exited her left side slightly higher up. So this was a side to side shot.

It appears she was found on her back/left side so I wonder if this shot was made after she was down.

[Claycat]

FlowerChild, I posted something about Dillon Harris awhile back on the psychic thread. You might want to check that. Sheza said one of my drawings reminded her of Dillon Harris!

[Missing Sarah]

that isn't Crystal Kelough in that photo. You pulled up the wrong Crystal.:)

[ArizonaGiGi]

We aren't chatting on this link, but know you probably meant discuss and post.

We do however have another link/thread here in this Forum for Chit/Chat if anyone is interested, in fact we have many others.

Why must you correct her. We all know what she meant. At least she was trying to be nice.
Sheeesh TG I think you need to take a break.

[Claycat]

that isn't Crystal Kelough in that photo. You pulled up the wrong Crystal.:)

I thought it was about Crystal Harris. She and Dillon are related to the Keloughs, because their mother Gail was a Kelough. Isn't that correct, Missing Sarah. I think I read that when I was reading about Dillon. Not certain!

[ArizonaGiGi]

You are welcome, Sarah.

I am at the end of my rope being treated like I'm stupid!!!!

Is Christine the only moderator here?

sent ya a p.m. just now

[Claycat]

FlowerChild, could Donnie Southern be younger? Would your source know that. Could he still be in his teens?

[ArizonaGiGi]

This is interesting.

http://www.koco.com/video/17138595/index.html


Thanks Claycat :blowkiss:
ps be sure and post this in the media thread too

[FlowerChild]

I thought it was about Crystal Harris. She and Dillon are related to the Keloughs, because their mother Gail was a Kelough. Isn't that correct, Missing Sarah. I think I read that when I was reading about Dillon. Not certain!
This is what I was told and found when I went looking online...

The Criminal report I put up is for a Crystal Harris who I believe is Dillon Harris' sister. Dillon DOES have a sister named Crystal Harris.

The girl's name who is involved is Crystal Harris - she is supposedly married to Tavis B Southern (who has a "Crystal Tattoo) - Crystal and Dillon's MOTHER was a Kelough (Gail, now deceased) - their father's last name is/was Harris. Both Crystal and her brother Dillon have Harris as a last name, not Kelough.

I don't get DOB and other information from my source, I have to research the people myself and locate whetever information is available to the public - I start at http://www.criminalsearches.com/ and then move to the OK arrests and then the OK Incarceration (State) resource last.

My Opinion

[ArizonaGiGi]

Quoting Tricia from July 16 2008 on the front page of Websleuths
"Everyone, and I don't care who you are, EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER."

Welcome newbies and thank you for your posts. Everyone has a right to post on here, even if we dont' all agree with each other.

[Missing Sarah]

I thought it was about Crystal Harris. She and Dillon are related to the Keloughs, because their mother Gail was a Kelough. Isn't that correct, Missing Sarah. I think I read that when I was reading about Dillon. Not certain!

Hi Claycat, you are correct. But, that photo isn't Crystal Kelough (Harris)

[Missing Sarah]

This is what I was told and found when I went looking online...

The Criminal report I put up is for a Crystal Harris who I believe is Dillon Harris' sister. Dillon DOES have a sister named Crystal Harris.

The girl's name who is involved is Crystal Harris - she is supposedly married to Tavis B Southern (who has a "Crystal Tattoo) - Crystal and Dillon's MOTHER was a Kelough (Gail, now deceased) - their father's last name is/was Harris. Both Crystal and her brother Dillon have Harris as a last name, not Kelough.

I don't get DOB and other information from my source, I have to research the people myself and locate whetever information is available to the public - I start at http://www.criminalsearches.com/ and then move to the OK arrests and then the OK Incarceration (State) resource last.

My Opinion

Flowerchild, you are correct with all the details, but that picture isn't Crystal, I'd have to make a call, but I don't think Crystal is in jail. Just trying to help you, don't take offense.

[Claycat]

Hi Claycat, you are correct. But, that photo isn't Crystal Kelough (Harris)

Thanks! It's so good to have people in the area here with us. All of you add depth to our sleuthing!

[FlowerChild]

FlowerChild, could Donnie Southern be younger? Would your source know that. Could he still be in his teens?
He is at least an "adult" over 18, but I did not get an age on him - hard to find these folks fast unless they have been arrested. I will keep looking, he is "known" to LE but frankly I haven't had time to go thru every county in OK yet to look for criminal records. As of late this Donnie was in Weleetka but he may be listed (or live) elsewhere.

Sometimes I get good information and sometimes I get nothing - hit the jackpot on most of the Southern Family. We already had found Dillon Harris, but didn't know his sis was associated with Tavis Southern...

Geeze, in OK it seems crime is a "family business" for some.

My Opinion

[Claycat]

Unless I am blind I don't think whoever made the drawings on the autopsy report for Skyla noted the entrance wound for wound #6. This bullet must have entered her lower right side and exited her left side slightly higher up. So this was a side to side shot.

It appears she was found on her back/left side so I wonder if this shot was made after she was down.

Albert, I agree that it would make sense for some of the shots to have been made after they were already down. I imagine they started falling with the first shots! Poor little girls!

[Missing Sarah]

It really doesn't matter, I should not have made a comment.

[FlowerChild]

Flowerchild, you are correct with all the details, but that picture isn't Crystal, I'd have to make a call, but I don't think Crystal is in jail. Just trying to help you, don't take offense.
I don't take any offense - get whatever you can on the "right" Crystal who is married to Tavis Southern. She is supposed to have a LEGAL name of Crystal Harris or Southern, not Kelough.

Thanks!

[Missing Sarah]

Well, I think its with familes all over the US. Seems some familes are very well known for viiolent behavior, as you can see with the Keloughs. The seeds just keep being planted from one generation to another. The Southerns I knew from Okmulgee County were always into trouble, and you have one of them listed all his violations are from Okmulgee County. The Crytal you have all her violations are from Okla County.

[Claycat]

Well, I think its with familes all over the US. Seems some familes are very well known for viiolent behavior, as you can see with the Keloughs. The seeds just keep being planted from one generation to another. The Southerns I knew from Okmulgee County were always into trouble, and you have one of them listed all his violations are from Okmulgee County. The Crytal you have all her violations are from Okla County.

Missing Sarah, what is the mother of the Southern boys like?

[Busylady]

Only problem I have with Linda Jenkins and Tony Paschal being Jennifer Juanitas parents is the records do not show the Linda B. Jenkins you referenced earlier married to Tony Paschal. I show Linda B. Jenkins (54) married to George R. Jenkins (53) married 7/8/1972. I show a Teresa Brown married to Tony Paschal. I think at this point I am done with the family tree its making my head hurt lol. In the big picture its not going to make one bit of difference to this case.


You are obviously correct on THAT Jennifer M Paschal, but I do know that Jennifer Juanita's parents are Tony Carl Paschal and Linda Jenkins Paschal. Jennifer Juanita is NOT Vicky Paschal's daughter based on the information I have. If you find something different please post it because I have Jennifer Juanita as Tony and Linda's daughter.

Facts are facts, can't argue them - but I cannot find ANY information that Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's child - only that she is Tony and Linda's child.

My Opinion

[Missing Sarah]

She was about 1/2 indian, and the entire family drank, fought. Lots of trouble from those people, names always in the paper.

[Busylady]

Who has now married Bobby Lewis Johnson in 2005.

Veromi also shows Vicki Placker as possible roomate for Jennifer Juanita Paschal.

To add to the confusion there also is a Jennifer Paschal who is 57 listed :)

Here's the info. and age of J.J. Paschal

PASCHAL, JENNIFER JUANITA (Age 32)
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gifAssociated names:
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif
CUSTER, JENNIFER J
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK

Possible Relatives:
http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif
PASCHAL, TONY C

As per Veromi.net/PulicRecords

http://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.veromi.net/images/spacer.gif

[Tom'sGirl]

Who has now married Bobby Lewis Johnson in 2005.

Veromi also shows Vicki Placker as possible roomate for Jennifer Juanita Paschal.
Yeah, I know it did, I cropped that part out.

LOL, it's like trying to keep up with a "Who's on First" routine :crosseyed:

[SeriouslySearching]

Why must you correct her. We all know what she meant. At least she was trying to be nice.
Sheeesh TG I think you need to take a break.:eek: TG was simply trying to help her understand the chit/chat thread was here! I have never known TG NOT to be nice! To suggest that someone needs to "take a break" to me is rather offensive and I would like to say that TG is one hard working WSer here. We all very much appreciate everything she does in helping keep the photo threads up and all she does!! She is very much a respected member and I listen when she posts as she is usually spot on. :mad:

[Fairy1]

:eek: Wow! So many of the players and possible players in this case are really questionable characters. Surely must be muddying the waters for LE! I can totally see how it will take them a while to wade through all of this c**p!

[FlowerChild]

Well, I think its with familes all over the US. Seems some familes are very well known for viiolent behavior, as you can see with the Keloughs. The seeds just keep being planted from one generation to another. The Southerns I knew from Okmulgee County were always into trouble, and you have one of them listed all his violations are from Okmulgee County. The Crytal you have all her violations are from Okla County.
The same place her BROTHER Dillon lived. He has 2 past addresses in OKC. I think they ALL move around. The Crystal that was arrested was making and selling meth at her last known address in OKC, although she has other addresses listed previously. The Southern boys are not all supposed to be living in Weleetka either, but LE thinks they are all there some of the time...like weekends??

My Opinion

[Fairy1]

:eek: TG was simply trying to help her understand the chit/chat thread was here! I have never known TG NOT to be nice! To suggest that someone needs to "take a break" to me is rather offensive and I would like to say that TG is one hard working WSer here. We all very much appreciate everything she does in helping keep the photo threads up and all she does!! She is very much a respected member and I listen when she posts as she is usually spot on. :mad:

This should have been a PM.

[Missing Sarah]

what fairy said

[Fairy1]

I am grateful to have new and local posters here - "newbies" or not!

[fabvab]

You are obviously correct on THAT Jennifer M Paschal, but I do know that Jennifer Juanita's parents are Tony Carl Paschal and Linda Jenkins Paschal. Jennifer Juanita is NOT Vicky Paschal's daughter based on the information I have. If you find something different please post it because I have Jennifer Juanita as Tony and Linda's daughter.

Facts are facts, can't argue them - but I cannot find ANY information that Jennifer Juanita is Vicky's child - only that she is Tony and Linda's child.

My Opinionhttp://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=484328&db=Oklahoma

I had noticed early on that Vicky's name is spelled "Vickey" on one of the case summary's on OSCN. If this link doesn't work then you'll have to go to www.oscn.net and search under "Placker".

[SeriouslySearching]

This should have been a PM.Why?! I want people to know that I respect TG and what she does! :waitasec: I can't speak out openly about that here when others can? TG deserves her kudos!! :clap::clap::clap::clap: There are many WSers here who have put in their many, many countless hours of hard work on as many cases here. This in no way reflects on Newbies or locals who join us. I think they should know that this isn't the only case we have worked on and that our experience is worth a lot when it comes right down to it tho. TG has well earned our respect.

Welcome, Newbies! :)

[Fairy1]

Why?! Because I want people to know that I respect TG and what she does?! :waitasec: I can't speak out openly about that here when others can? TG deserves her kudos!! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

Well, that is noble. Most, if not all, of us have read TG's posts and know that she is an extremely valuable member of WS. That is not to say that we should treat those who are new here rudely or as if they are idiots. Anyone with an interest who comes here should be welcomed and valued. As I said, I am grateful for their insights. I do not want to see this board derailed with petty attacks. That's all. We all need to stay on topic, IMHO. That being said, I fail to see how who is related to whom will necessarily help to solve this crime.

[evelyn24]

I think everybody needs to respect one another, and for people like me who have been around a long time, we must be careful not to come across as bossy, and do not constantly correct newbies like a school teacher, or something. Moderators can handle any issues with the rules.
I want the board to grow, because that means a variety of opinions on cases, etc. Don't run off the new people.

And the new people need to read the rules, and remember it takes a few weeks if not months to have the older members trust you completely. It's best to bite the tongue for a bit until you get your feet wet.

It's a give and take on everyone's part to make the board great.

Now, was that too "sunshine and rainbows?"
LOL

Ok.. back to this tragic case.

[Fairy1]

I think everybody needs to respect one another, and for people like me who have been around a long time, we must be careful not to come across as bossy, and do not constantly correct newbies like a school teacher, or something. Moderators can handle any issues with the rules.
I want the board to grow, because that means a variety of opinions on cases, etc. Don't run off the new people.

And the new people need to read the rules, and remember it takes a few weeks if not months to have the older members trust you completely. It's best to bite the tongue for a bit until you get your feet wet.

It's a give and take on everyone's part to make the board great.

Now, was that too "sunshine and rainbows?"

LOL

Ok.. back to this tragic case.


Nope - that was perfect. Thank you! :blowkiss:

[SeriouslySearching]

I have not seen any where that any one has treated people as idiots or rudely. I think often people misread posts and the meanings behind them. That being said, we try to get down to the brass tacks here. I thought what I read was just exactly that! Trying to keep things on topic and moving along.

I have to agree that all references into relations haven't gotten us any further in this case even knowing what we do about the families of both girls and their troubled lives. It has not led us closer to the POI, the smoking gun, or a direction to find the missing puzzle piece to put us on the correct path to solve this horrific case. OSBI knows without a doubt who the mother and father are, imo. Obviously, they don't consider it important or they would be searching for them publically if they have not already found them.

We need to stick with finding the POI. HE has answers. HE saw what happened to those girls probably first hand. OSBI knows it, LE knows it, and the POI knows it. So who is he and where is he?!

[SeriouslySearching]

Has ANYONE seen any such letter requesting they bring in their guns to be tested or are you guys going on rumor about that?

[Claycat]

She was about 1/2 indian, and the entire family drank, fought. Lots of trouble from those people, names always in the paper.

You said was. Is she dead? Tavis and Dillon both have mothers who are deceased?

[c2cd208]

Good news, we will be leaving on Tuesday going back to Denver again. I have printed the POI posters and will make sure and stitck them up o the boards when we are in OK Tueday night/Wednesday morning. I will ask some questions too while I am there. Just kinda out of the blue sort of stuff just to see what the locals say. Anyone have suggestions for questions? I have plenty myself but of there is something someone would like me to ask please let me know and I see what responces I can get.

[SeriouslySearching]

I would like to know exactly what year of truck the POI supposedly was driving and why they aren't releasing it!!

[Fairy1]

Good news, we will be leaving on Tuesday going back to Denver again. I have printed the POI posters and will make sure and stitck them up o the boards when we are in OK Tueday night/Wednesday morning. I will ask some questions too while I am there. Just kinda out of the blue sort of stuff just to see what the locals say. Anyone have suggestions for questions? I have plenty myself but of there is something someone would like me to ask please let me know and I see what responces I can get.

Bless you C2CD08 and travel safely. I've no doubt you know exactly what to ask and look for!

[Busylady]

Wasn't Kelough the ones that talked about the gun shot sounds? Will try and go back and find a link.

[ArizonaGiGi]

I am grateful to have new and local posters here - "newbies" or not!

Me too. As I posted earlier, Trish states that EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO ADD. Newbies and oldtimers alike.

[Busylady]

On vehicle type does anyone have a clue what WPKR
would stand for?

[ArizonaGiGi]

On vehicle type does anyone have a clue what WPKR
would stand for?

is that on the body or on the license plate or registration?

[SeriouslySearching]

On vehicle type does anyone have a clue what WPKR
would stand for?It has something to do with a Military Vehicle:

Military unit name: 240 MP CO


Expanded name: 240 Military Police Company (WPKRY1)
Unit Identification Code: WPKRY1
Service: Army
Theater: Iraq
Information valid as of:Friday April 19, 2007
Other units of group WPKR

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/240_MP_CO_(WPKRY1)

[Fairy1]

Looks like a radio station:

http://www.thewolf.fm/

Maybe it was the frame???

[Ann Fan]

I guess I am one of the 'newbies' - I don't post much but try to keep up on what is being said - I have been welcomed very nicely by GetSmart and Claycat and I thank them. I just want to say that I admire all of the hard work and dedication you all do - you devote so much time and effort to aid in reaching justice for those precious girls. There will be a special place in Heaven reserved in your names no doubt. I would also like to wish the lady that is the trucker a safe trip. I would like for her to take note of how many times she sees the POI poster posted along her journey. I am still not convinced the POI exists - wish I knew more about the 'witnesses' that saw him - then again, we all wish we knew so much more than has been released. To those of you with hometown contacts, please continue to report the rumors - often the locals know even more than LE. Along with you all I am praying for an answer soon.

[Claycat]

On vehicle type does anyone have a clue what WPKR
would stand for?

Military vehicle

[Fairy1]

I guess I am one of the 'newbies' - I don't post much but try to keep up on what is being said - I have been welcomed very nicely by GetSmart and Claycat and I thank them. I just want to say that I admire all of the hard work and dedication you all do - you devote so much time and effort to aid in reaching justice for those precious girls. There will be a special place in Heaven reserved in your names no doubt. I would also like to wish the lady that is the trucker a safe trip. I would like for her to take note of how many times she sees the POI poster posted along her journey. I am still not convinced the POI exists - wish I knew more about the 'witnesses' that saw him - then again, we all wish we knew so much more than has been released. To those of you with hometown contacts, please continue to report the rumors - often the locals know even more than LE. Along with you all I am praying for an answer soon.

Whatever brought you here, please continue to post your thoughts and insights. This is not a classroom in which you can be graded. All posts (not the trolls!) are welcomed here. :)

[Claycat]

Hi Fairy and Ann!

SS, I didn't realize you had already posted about the military! Oops!

[Claycat]

Wasn't Kelough the ones that talked about the gun shot sounds? Will try and go back and find a link.

Yes, a lady named Kelough and her son, who lived nearby, heard the shots.

[Busylady]

I think everyone appreciates all who contribute to the board, doesnt matter if you have been here 5 years or 1 day. Sometimes it is hard to read emotion in words typed on a screen, therefore there will be misunderstandings. In addition, when someone "corrects" a new person about the way things are done on WS it doesnt mean they are not welcomed, in fact it is someone trying to help a new person understand how this board works. I know for me personally because I am jumping around working on a few cases right now, sometimes my post can be short and right to the point, therefore they may come across to some who do not know me as being bossy that is not the intent, simply just trying to help someone.

Example I learned recently that I truly offended a new person for asking for a link to something they were stating. I wasn't questioning their honesty, or trying to chase them away it was just something I had not read before, and on WS we back things up with links if possible and new people may not know that. But in my request for the link I didnt take the time to explain that I wasnt questioning their honesty or I wasnt trying to offend them etc, they were upset and a flurry of pms to other members from another board began and before I knew it I was accused of chasing new members away. Which is not all what was going on, but had the person I requested the link from came to me and told me I offended them, problem could of been resolved instead of involving people from another board that then came in to WS with short snarky post to me it would of been resolved right then and there without any further issues.

Bottom line of my wordy post is everyone IS welcomed here, and if your feelings do get hurt take a moment, step away for a few seconds, and when you come back if you feel like you are truly being attacked report it to a moderator and let them handle. I think when people sit back they will realize that everyone here has the same goals, emotions run high at times, but no one is trying to chase anyone away. Misunderstandings that fester turn into bad feelings for a long long time.

Me too. As I posted earlier, Trish states that EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO ADD. Newbies and oldtimers alike.

[Ann Fan]

Whatever brought you here, please continue to post your thoughts and insights. This is not a classroom in which you can be graded. All posts (not the trolls!) are welcomed here. :)

Thank you fairy1 - What brought me here is mostly the fact that I am in awe that this case has not been plastered all over the news - I'm appauled that it seemed to be 'whisked away' by the media and hardly mentioned at all. I started reading the topics thing but that got to be more of a contest between individuals and it took forever to weed through the bs to actually see people discuss the case (BTW I never posted on there = only read) and then one of the posters mentioned WS - I never knew something like this existed. I'm glad it does.

Finally, I am hardly familiar with a forum such as this - and am not exactly a computer whiz by any means - and I have no idea what a troll is in computer terms - I am assuming it is something bad - I can assure you I have no bad intentions.
Thank you for the welcome.

[Busylady]

Ok cause Donald D. Southern had a traffic violation in 2005 driving a 1994 White WPKR style vehicle.
Nevermind just noticed birthdate for this Donald D. Southern had a dob of 1933.

It has something to do with a Military Vehicle:

Military unit name: 240 MP CO


Expanded name: 240 Military Police Company (WPKRY1)
Unit Identification Code: WPKRY1
Service: Army
Theater: Iraq
Information valid as of:Friday April 19, 2007
Other units of group WPKR

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/240_MP_CO_(WPKRY1)

[c2cd208]

I would like to know exactly what year of truck the POI supposedly was driving and why they aren't releasing it!!
Keep in mind I will be in service stations. Perhaps the workers of service station have been asked to look out for something were not aware of. Gypsy is good with the women so if it is women working the stops I will let him work his ways with them, he relaly is charming and if they know something we dont I know he can help out with that.

Bless you C2CD08 and travel safely. I've no doubt you know exactly what to ask and look for!
I hope I do and hope that if I have to put the man sector of this duo on it that he will follow my lead! This is the first time I will delve with more than just seeking info from the ineternet so I hope we can find out more.

I would also like to wish the lady that is the trucker a safe trip. I would like for her to take note of how many times she sees the POI poster posted along her journey.
Thank you dear, and I will for sure to take note of the times we see the posters and report back. We have some printed and we plan to post them where they are not.

It will be LATE Tuesday night when we get there, so it will probably be sometime Wednesday when I report back on this but were ready and prepared for the journey.

[Mysterylover]

Well all I know is BIRTH RECORDS indicate the following:

Jennifer M Paschal 2/23/1975 mother is Lynda (Frances) Paschal 9/26/1947 and her father is Charles Eugene Paschal 1/24/1943 they were married in Grayson Texas 3/28/1969.
But ya know it doesnt matter no matter what birth records show you are gonna say you are right and this is wrong so I give up!....


Is this the Jennifer M. Paschal that some suspect is Taylors Bio Mom?

[Lauren - CA]

Sorry to break off topic, a woman's body was just found in Chandler, OK. Could that be the missing woman?

[Mysterylover]

I have not seen any where that any one has treated people as idiots or rudely. I think often people misread posts and the meanings behind them. That being said, we try to get down to the brass tacks here. I thought what I read was just exactly that! Trying to keep things on topic and moving along.

I have to agree that all references into relations haven't gotten us any further in this case even knowing what we do about the families of both girls and their troubled lives.

It has not led us closer to the POI, the smoking gun, or a direction to find the missing puzzle piece to put us on the correct path to solve this horrific case.

OSBI knows without a doubt who the mother and father are, imo. Obviously, they don't consider it important or they would be searching for them publically if they have not already found them.

We need to stick with finding the POI. HE has answers. HE saw what happened to those girls probably first hand. OSBI knows it, LE knows it, and the POI knows it. So who is he and where is he?!......

Actually, we don't know what LE knows,
or IF the theories and info. on this board has led LE to look into other directions, do we? why 'assume'?

We do not know WHO the witnesses were that saw the POI...

What IF some of the witnesses are related to the killer and there is NO POI as described?....
IF LE has several 'suspects' and the eyewitnesses just 'happen' to be kin to the suspects, LE would have to look deeper into what everyone saw, said or heard.

in my opinion we do need to know, who is kin to whom, and leave no stone unturned, to solve these horrific murders.

[Busylady]

No Jennifer Juanita Paschal Johnson is suspected to be Taylors Bio mom.

Is this the Jennifer M. Paschal that some suspect is Taylors Bio Mom?

[Mysterylover]

Ok cause Donald D. Southern had a traffic violation in 2005 driving a 1994 White WPKR style vehicle.

Nevermind just noticed birthdate for this Donald D. Southern had a dob of 1933.........

Let's not overlook, trucks can be borrowed....or used without permission or sold....

When I read, the P's had been gone all Sunday and some theories, possibly Saturday night also, it started me thinking in other directions.

Kids get bored and certainly don't always stay home IF there are no adults in that home...imo

1. What IF the girls had walked to someone's house snooping around or destroying some of the persons property?

2. What if the girls met some boys somewhere? maybe gang members, and a argument/fight or something else occurred to cause the shootings?

3. What if the girls rode off in a vehicle with someone?

4. What IF the girls was kidnapped and that is the reason Skyla was wearing the slippers?

5. What IF there was 'someone' at the P's and the girls ran from the house because of a 'problem' in the house, possibly 'hiding' most of the day and was actually waiting at the road for Rose?
Could Skyla's gun shot wound to the arm been caused earlier that day as they ran away from someone and the girls put the "gauze' bandage on her arm? IF not, Who put the gauze on her arm? I believe Grandmother!

6. What IF someone sent Taylor to the bridge at 5:00 to deliver 'something' in her bag and the purchaser became enraged when HE found he had been cheated?

7. Why did the girls go 10 to 12 hours without food and little or no fluids that Sunday?

I'm leaving no stone unturned, to give other possibilities to think about...

[SeriouslySearching]

I think everyone appreciates all who contribute to the board, doesnt matter if you have been here 5 years or 1 day. Sometimes it is hard to read emotion in words typed on a screen, therefore there will be misunderstandings. In addition, when someone "corrects" a new person about the way things are done on WS it doesnt mean they are not welcomed, in fact it is someone trying to help a new person understand how this board works. I know for me personally because I am jumping around working on a few cases right now, sometimes my post can be short and right to the point, therefore they may come across to some who do not know me as being bossy that is not the intent, simply just trying to help someone.

Bottom line of my wordy post is everyone IS welcomed here, and if your feelings do get hurt take a moment, step away for a few seconds, and when you come back if you feel like you are truly being attacked report it to a moderator and let them handle. I think when people sit back they will realize that everyone here has the same goals, emotions run high at times, but no one is trying to chase anyone away. Misunderstandings that fester turn into bad feelings for a long long time.EXACTLY!!

It is difficult when a forum exists and people aren't aware of it only because they are new. If we don't explain to them how it works here, they don't know. Keeping things on topic, taking advantage of the other threads, and keeping the completely off topic things on their own thread is the way we streamline these discussions. It frustrates everyone to come back after work and find pages of personal dialog, things that have been discussed at length on another thread, or the like to wade through to find out where the case is. Later on, when this case hopefully goes to trial, everyone will appreciate being able to go back and find pertinent information on the forum when it is mentioned by a lawyer!

Check out the forum here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=162

[SeriouslySearching]

Actually, we don't know what LE knows,
or IF the theories and info. on this board has led LE to look into other directions, do we? why 'assume'?

We do not know WHO the witnesses were that saw the POI...

What IF some of the witnesses are related to the killer and there is NO POI as described?....
IF LE has several 'suspects' and the eyewitnesses just 'happen' to be kin to the suspects, LE would have to look deeper into what everyone saw, said or heard.

in my opinion we do need to know, who is kin to whom, and leave no stone unturned, to solve these horrific murders.We have time and time again gone into the family dynamics here. I don't think we have left any skeletons in their closets and their stones have been tumbled! Without paternity/maternity testing we are never going to know for certain who Taylor's parents were, imo.

If the killers are strangers to the area with no real connection unless it is to one person they met out on that road...we are no closer and instead much further away from finding out any answers. We need to explore that possibility since nothing has come out of the familial connections or from the immediate area as far as locals go. No one can seem to place any local as having anything to do with these murders at the scene.

[CMorrison64]

Sorry to break off topic, a woman's body was just found in Chandler, OK. Could that be the missing woman?

They have released that it is not the missing woman.

[SailorMoon]

Excellent questions...the "no food" thing is weird. And I think they were meeting someone....as I've posted before.

Let's not overlook, trucks can be borrowed....or used without permission or sold....

When I read, the P's had been gone all Sunday and some theories, possibly Saturday night also, it started me thinking in other directions.

Kids get bored and certainly don't always stay home IF there are no adults in that home...imo

1. What IF the girls had walked to someone's house snooping around or destroying some of the persons property?

2. What if the girls met some boys somewhere? maybe gang members, and a argument/fight or something else occurred to cause the shootings?

3. What if the girls rode off in a vehicle with someone?

4. What IF the girls was kidnapped and that is the reason Skyla was wearing the slippers?

5. What IF there was 'someone' at the P's and the girls ran from the house because of a 'problem' in the house, possibly 'hiding' most of the day and was actually waiting at the road for Rose?
Could Skyla's gun shot wound to the arm been caused earlier that day as they ran away from someone and the girls put the "gauze' bandage on her arm? IF not, Who put the gauze on her arm? I believe Grandmother!

6. What IF someone sent Taylor to the bridge at 5:00 to deliver 'something' in her bag and the purchaser became enraged when HE found he had been cheated?

7. Why did the girls go 10 to 12 hours without food and little or no fluids that Sunday?

I'm leaving no stone unturned, to give other possibilities to think about...

[Albert18]

No Jennifer Juanita Paschal Johnson is suspected to be Taylors Bio mom.

Is Jennifer Juanita Paschal Johnson the daughter of Tony Paschal? Is she the niece of Vickey Placker?

Or don't we know this information?

[Annie]

Why are some of you assuming the girls hadn't eaten all day? It only takes two to three hours for the stomach to empty, so even if they had eaten a couple of meals that day their stomachs could still be empty at 5:00 p.m. They did take the internal temperatures of the girls as indicated on the autopsy report, so if they were killed any earlier LE should be able to tell that. If it was a really hot day though the body temp might not have dropped.

[Claycat]

Why are some of you assuming the girls hadn't eaten all day? It only takes two to three hours for the stomach to empty, so even if they had eaten a couple of meals that day their stomachs could still be empty at 5:00 p.m. They did take the internal temperatures of the girls as indicated on the autopsy report, so if they were killed any earlier LE should be able to tell that. If it was a really hot day though the body temp might not have dropped.

Thanks, Annie! Good post!

[ArizonaGiGi]

Why are some of you assuming the girls hadn't eaten all day? It only takes two to three hours for the stomach to empty, so even if they had eaten a couple of meals that day their stomachs could still be empty at 5:00 p.m. They did take the internal temperatures of the girls as indicated on the autopsy report, so if they were killed any earlier LE should be able to tell that. If it was a really hot day though the body temp might not have dropped.

Well you are right. Maybe they did eat earlier in the day. I hope so :)

[Tom'sGirl]

Wasn't Kelough the ones that talked about the gun shot sounds? Will try and go back and find a link.
Yes Busy, it was a Rebecca Kelough.

Also there was an Eldon Kelough in one article...............both photo shots are in the Photo thread.

[Busylady]

Thank you!

Yes Busy, it was a Rebecca Kelough.

Also there was an Eldon Kelough in one article...............both photo shots are in the Photo thread.

[YellowDog]

I'm still confused as to why there would be writings on the bodies of the girls and think this may have some significance. I keep coming back to the "Z"s and the placement of them on the back side of the bodies. Am I the only one that thinks this way?

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm still confused as to why there would be writings on the bodies of the girls and think this may have some significance. I keep coming back to the "Z"s and the placement of them on the back side of the bodies. Am I the only one that thinks this way?
I don't know how others feel, but I personally don't think the markings had a thing to do with anything other than what some young girls do during sleep overs.

[Busylady]

I think its just typical girls doing what they do. I think the markings are all geared towards Highschool Musical stuff.

I'm still confused as to why there would be writings on the bodies of the girls and think this may have some significance. I keep coming back to the "Z"s and the placement of them on the back side of the bodies. Am I the only one that thinks this way?

[YellowDog]

I wouldn't consider that a typical act with teenage girls myself. At least I've never seen it done to that extent. But then I don't have any teenage girls.

[tapu]

I wouldn't consider that a typical act with teenage girls myself. At least I've never seen it done to that extent. But then I don't have any teenage girls.

I've noted that my "pre-teen" does it, too. Seems even more common nowadays than earlier -- though it wasn't unheard of even when *I* was the teen.... :)

[DeltaDawn]

I think the shot in the mouth to Taylor maybe very telling..to silence her perhaps?

[Okie ties]

I think its just typical girls doing what they do. I think the markings are all geared towards Highschool Musical stuff.

I would have to say that I don't agree with you. I have both an 11 and 13 year old. Neither they or their friends have ever been enamored enough with Zac Efron to write Z's on paper, dry erase board, much less their bodies. They are however, completely smitten with the Jonas Brothers and like Drake and Josh, and others currently in the main stream. I also have an 11 year old niece that lives close to that area and she has no "idol-type" interest in Zac. IMO, it is representing someone or something else. The only Z that has come up in the family is Zjaiton Wood, Lanita Bateman's boyfriend..behind bars since 2005. Far fetched, I'll admit.

But my mind does keep going back to gang involvement/retailation.It's already been pointed out that his Zjaiton's tats indicate he is a member of the Hoover 107 gang. The largest gang in Tulsa is the self-styled "107 Hoover Crips," with numerous cells of about 12-20 people applying some variation of the original L.A. gang's name to themselves. -per Cults of Violence article dated 8/1/07. Supposedly their biggest rival is the "neighborhood crips". Could anyone imagine these girls were killed by an opposing gang?

[MCDRAW]

I have a teenage boy and a teenage girl and they both write on themselves or kids at school do. I have a nine and ten year old and they love Zac Effron but they haven't started writing on each other or themselves yet. I think Skyla and Taylor were just goofing off with the writing. Not sure what the Z stood for.

[YellowDog]

OK, so if the "Z" is for Zac what do the two hash marks intersecting the Z stand for?
Since it was drawn this way on both girls, it must mean something.

[belimom]

OK, so if the "Z" is for Zac what do the two hash marks intersecting the Z stand for?
Since it was drawn this way on both girls, it must mean something.

I cannot open the autopsy reports on the computer I'm on (it would crash it... :rolleyes:) but I did read them a day or two ago. IIRC - and I could be wrong - there were no hash marks on Skyla's. I, too, was wondering about the hash marks on Taylor's, but wrote it off as marks that the ME had made for scrapes. He used similar marking to denote scrapes, I think. I did not read the reports word-for-word, so perhaps the ME did describe the Z as having two hash marks. When I get a chance to pull them up on another computer, I'll do so. Until then, maybe someone else could clarify...? Thanks!

[c2cd208]

Just wanted to update you all, our trip is being delayed. The load were taking out West is a load of chicken. The load is not loaded yet and when it is loaded it will take the first driver of it 4 hours to get it to us. So were far behind. But we still have our flyers and have the plan to stop in the area we just will not be making it there tonight. It is 4:30 here and it takes us about 9 hours to make it to that stop, and were not even on the road yet. We will still make the stop, just not at the time we expected. I wanted to let you all know so you wont be expecting any news from us tonight or in the AM.

[Busylady]

One of the girls had written Zac is so hot, think vanessa was written also which all points to High School Musical. In addition, was it said earlier they playhouse at Taylors house where she would paint etc was decorated with High School Musical stuff?

The Z could mean something entirely different and not have anything to do with High School Musical it just made sense to me with the other markings that it was tied to High School Musical.

[Albert18]

After thinking about the autopsy for a while I think there were two shooters. My guess is LE is almost certain there were two shooters but they aren't saying that.

What the witness probably heard were both guns firing rapidly, then a pause, then the final shots. The final shots would have been from both guns.

What I would like to know is how long the pause was. From what the witness said I get the impression it wasn't very long. To me, that doesn't sound like a situation that suddenly escalated out of control but rather a situation where the two knew what they were going to do when they arrived by the girls.

[YellowDog]

I cannot open the autopsy reports on the computer I'm on (it would crash it... :rolleyes:) but I did read them a day or two ago. IIRC - and I could be wrong - there were no hash marks on Skyla's. I, too, was wondering about the hash marks on Taylor's, but wrote it off as marks that the ME had made for scrapes. He used similar marking to denote scrapes, I think. I did not read the reports word-for-word, so perhaps the ME did describe the Z as having two hash marks. When I get a chance to pull them up on another computer, I'll do so. Until then, maybe someone else could clarify...? Thanks!

You are right. There are only hash marks on the Zs on Taylor. I was wrong about them being on both girls.

[YellowDog]

One of the girls had written Zac is so hot, think vanessa was written also which all points to High School Musical. In addition, was it said earlier they playhouse at Taylors house where she would paint etc was decorated with High School Musical stuff?

The Z could mean something entirely different and not have anything to do with High School Musical it just made sense to me with the other markings that it was tied to High School Musical.

You may well be right. I'm just looking for anything unusual in those markings.

[Okie ties]

You may well be right. I'm just looking for anything unusual in those markings.

Me too. I'm just trying to find anything unusual and probably just chasing my tail.

[Tom'sGirl]

clipped for length
Per my buddy in Weleetka these are local people LE would like to talk to - the Southerns live (most of the time) less than 2 miles from the crime scene near the Keloughs off Bryant Road.

Tavis B Southern is married to Crystal Harris - Crystal's brother is Dillon Harris. Crystal and Dillon's mother (deceased) was Gail Kelough.
Since the Kelough name was brought up, and the name Crystal I thought I'd post what I found...............

BARBARA KELOUGH McCRAKEN
WELEETKA — Graveside services
for Barbara McCraken were held Oct. 6 at
the Kelough Family Cemetery with Rev.
Steve Gniech officiating.
Barbara was born March 18, 1961 to
Eugene and Louise (Barnett) Kelough. She
was a member of the Pipeliner’s Union Local
#798 in Tulsa.
Her hobbies included singing, being with
her friends and family, taking care of her
horses and dogs, and was a big fan of John
Wayne.
She was preceded in death by: her parents;
husband, James McCraken; and one sister,
Donna Satawake.
Survivors included: three children, Crystal
Gail Kelough and Dillon Scott Harris both
of Oklahoma City, and Brett Douglas of
Weleetka; seven siblings, Jimmy Kelough of
Oklahoma City, Tony, Eldon, Cort Kelough,
Jean Mead, Patricia Zismer, and Loretta Dover,
all of Weleetka; three grandchildren, and
other friends and loved ones who greatly miss
her.

DONNA FAYE SATAWAKE
WELEETKA — Graveside services
for Donna Satawake were held Oct. 7 at the
Hillcrest Cemetery with Rev. Steve Gniech
officiating.
Faye was born February 9, 1943 to
Warren and Louise (Barnett) Watson. She
was employed in Pharoah at the Box Factory
which later became the Sewing Factory.
Donna was preceded in death by: her
parents; her husband, Bobby; and one sister,
Barbara Gail Kelough.
Survivors include: two children,
Roxanne Satawake and Tonya Southern,
both of Tulsa; seven siblings, Jean Mead,
Patricia Zismer and Loretta Dover, all of
Weleetka, Jimmy Kelough of Oklahoma City,
Tony, Eldon, and Cort, all of Weleetka;
grandchildren, and a host of friends and relatives.

October 2005 MUSCOGEE NATION NEWS Section B, Page 7
http://www.muscogeenation-nsn.gov/MNN/MNN%20Online/october-05.pdf (http://www.muscogeenation-nsn.gov/MNN/MNN%20Online/october-05.pdf)

[Albert18]

I think the shot in the mouth to Taylor maybe very telling..to silence her perhaps?

I think the shots to Taylor are very telling. Can you imagine shooting a young girl right in the face.

The groin shot also raises a red flag. This was the other gun so if there were two shooters then one was angry enough to shoot her in the face and the other was nasty enough to do the groin shot. That groin shot shouldn't be overlooked. In order to do that shot he would have had to bend down and was apparently trying to shoot up you know where. The entrance wound abrasions are vey elongated so the bullet was traveling almost parallel to her leg and so it came in at a very low angle to her leg. That is stunning.

They are dealing with some very nasty dudes. Sure seems like they would be younger, 20's or younger so what is the deal with the POI.

[little726]

Thank you, TG, for the information on the Keloughs. I think it will come in handy down the road....

Robin

[Tom'sGirl]

Thank you, TG, for the information on the Keloughs. I think it will come in handy down the road....

Robin
You're very welcome!

[Claycat]

Very good info, TomsGirl! TY!

So, Harris and the Southerns and the Keloughs are all connected! Very interesting!

[Tom'sGirl]

Very good info, TomsGirl! TY!

So, Harris and the Southerns and the Keloughs are all connected! Very interesting!


You're welcome CC!

Yeah, just a big intertwined web isn't it?

[belimom]

I'm not sure whether the groin shot is significant or not. It may be, but it may also circumstantial. After being shot a couple of times, at one point she fell backwards. The shooter could still be shooting at that point and shot just as she was falling. Just another theory...

Because of the shots to the face, I don't believe this was the work of "otherwise-innocent" local kids. To look a young girl in the face and pull the trigger? Coldhearted. I think another kid would likely have shot to the chest, foot, arm - whatever. And maybe in their amateur-like experience with murder may not have even killed them - one of them probably would've survived. OTOH, it would only take a professional killer one shot each with a larger calibre weapon. No need to waste shots that take longer, are more likely to draw attention from someone nearby, and stay at the scene longer than necessary.

So there! I'm totally confused... :crazy: ... Sure sounds more like a professional with an agenda - to kill and to send a message - rather than the girls stumbling across something.

[YellowDog]

It could be an inexperienced shooter/shooters who just let the bullets fly and hit wherever they may. After the first shot, they were shooting at two moving targets.

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm not sure whether the groin shot is significant or not. It may be, but it may also circumstantial. After being shot a couple of times, at one point she fell backwards. The shooter could still be shooting at that point and shot just as she was falling. Just another theory...

Because of the shots to the face, I don't believe this was the work of "otherwise-innocent" local kids. To look a young girl in the face and pull the trigger? Coldhearted. I think another kid would likely have shot to the chest, foot, arm - whatever. And maybe in their amateur-like experience with murder may not have even killed them - one of them probably would've survived. OTOH, it would only take a professional killer one shot each with a larger calibre weapon. No need to waste shots that take longer, are more likely to draw attention from someone nearby, and stay at the scene longer than necessary.

So there! I'm totally confused... :crazy: ... Sure sounds more like a professional with an agenda - to kill and to send a message - rather than the girls stumbling across something.
Speaking of Taylor's facial shots, it appears she was shot with two different size bullets as per: Page 3, below VI, last paragraph it states:

Two damaged copper coated lead bullets, small in size and one medium size copper jacketed bullet recovered.

The gunshot wound of the right cheek and right hand could have been inflicted by a single bullet.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Just wanted to update you all, our trip is being delayed. The load were taking out West is a load of chicken. The load is not loaded yet and when it is loaded it will take the first driver of it 4 hours to get it to us. So were far behind. But we still have our flyers and have the plan to stop in the area we just will not be making it there tonight. It is 4:30 here and it takes us about 9 hours to make it to that stop, and were not even on the road yet. We will still make the stop, just not at the time we expected. I wanted to let you all know so you wont be expecting any news from us tonight or in the AM.


Thanks! Can't wait to hear your "report" .

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not sure whether the groin shot is significant or not. It may be, but it may also circumstantial. After being shot a couple of times, at one point she fell backwards. The shooter could still be shooting at that point and shot just as she was falling. Just another theory...

Because of the shots to the face, I don't believe this was the work of "otherwise-innocent" local kids. To look a young girl in the face and pull the trigger? Coldhearted. I think another kid would likely have shot to the chest, foot, arm - whatever. And maybe in their amateur-like experience with murder may not have even killed them - one of them probably would've survived. OTOH, it would only take a professional killer one shot each with a larger calibre weapon. No need to waste shots that take longer, are more likely to draw attention from someone nearby, and stay at the scene longer than necessary.

So there! I'm totally confused... :crazy: ... Sure sounds more like a professional with an agenda - to kill and to send a message - rather than the girls stumbling across something.

I have been away since July 21st and have read the autopsy reports for the first time. I will go back and read them more closely once I try to catch up.

I am convinced now though that it makes sense that there are two shooters. I see one of them as more methodical and cold. The other shooter I see as not as sure of himself or not enraged or cunning as much...he may be younger than the first shooter. He may not be the one that was the mastermind but the follower, instead.

This looks nothing like a professional hit, imo. It is way to chaotic and haphazard. Too many risks taken for a professional hit, imo.

The shots to the face shows someone very capable of murder. They would know that those shots most likely would be lethal such as the chest shots. The other injuries to Skyla either could mean the killer or killers were toying with her before they murdered her. Feasting off the fact that she had to be terrified beyond words especially if Taylor was shot and killed first which I believe she was. I have wondered if Taylor may have stepped forward toward the killers vehicle making herself further away from Skyla. With her purse still over her shoulder it seems she was shot immediately. I don't see the groin shot as having some message. I think Taylor was shot in the groin to help render her helpless and for them to gain control of the situation quickly.

I do believe that teenagers could have done this easily. I have seen some of them at arcades, where they fire what looks like real weapons at human figures on a screen. I have been amazed at how fast and accurate they are when hitting their "target".

The repetitive shots on an open country road reminds me of someone who is extremely immature and more focused on what they came to do rather than the chances they were taking but I have always believed that murderers are the highest risk takers of all, excluding hit men who are always cautious and methodical. The typical murderer does not look at the overall view and logic but has tunnel vision when carrying out what they have planned to do.



imoo

[Albert18]

I'm not sure whether the groin shot is significant or not. It may be, but it may also circumstantial. After being shot a couple of times, at one point she fell backwards. The shooter could still be shooting at that point and shot just as she was falling. Just another theory...



The groin shot was with a different gun.

The angle of the shot is such that if Taylor was standing straight up the gun would have to be fired upward from just off the end of her toes.

[Claycat]

The groin shot was with a different gun.

The angle of the shot is such that if Taylor was standing straight up the gun would have to be fired upward from just off the end of her toes.

Violation with a bullet!

:cry:

[Fairy1]

I have been away since July 21st and have read the autopsy reports for the first time. I will go back and read them more closely once I try to catch up.

I am convinced now though that it makes sense that there are two shooters. I see one of them as more methodical and cold. The other shooter I see as not as sure of himself or not enraged or cunning as much...he may be younger than the first shooter. He may not be the one that was the mastermind but the follower, instead.

This looks nothing like a professional hit, imo. It is way to chaotic and haphazard. Too many risks taken for a professional hit, imo.

The shots to the face shows someone very capable of murder. They would know that those shots most likely would be lethal such as the chest shots. The other injuries to Skyla either could mean the killer or killers were toying with her before they murdered her. Feasting off the fact that she had to be terrified beyond words especially if Taylor was shot and killed first which I believe she was. I have wondered if Taylor may have stepped forward toward the killers vehicle making herself further away from Skyla. With her purse still over her shoulder it seems she was shot immediately. I don't see the groin shot as having some message. I think Taylor was shot in the groin to help render her helpless and for them to gain control of the situation quickly.

I do believe that teenagers could have done this easily. I have seen some of them at arcades, where they fire what looks like real weapons at human figures on a screen. I have been amazed at how fast and accurate they are when hitting their "target".

The repetitive shots on an open country road reminds me of someone who is extremely immature and more focused on what they came to do rather than the chances they were taking but I have always believed that murderers are the highest risk takers of all, excluding hit men who are always cautious and methodical. The typical murderer does not look at the overall view and logic but has tunnel vision when carrying out what they have planned to do.



imoo

I agree OBE that there were two shooters. But I really go back and forth on the amateur versus professsional point. I just don't know what to think! According to what we do know, there was a very short window of time here. I may be mistaken, but I do not believe we know for sure if these girls made it to the bridge. Hopefully, LE has had contact with another kid or kids who were there and saw them. That will help to narrow down the time factor - if we can believe what time they left the home. What nags at me is how many unsavory people were in and around both of the girl's lives. Even with that, why target these children? Just doesn't make any sense! :confused::confused::confused:

[Ruflossn]

Violation with a bullet!

:cry:

Oftentimes, when there is a shot such as the groin shot, the shot is committed post mortum. Personally, the groin shot really bothered me. I hope for her sake that it was administered post mortem so that she didn't have to suffer anymore than she already had. Either way, it is awful.

[GannyP]

Hi, I'm mainly a lurker with an occasional post, I was catching up this evening and saw you were discussing the Zs. I grew up a military brat (all over the word). A lot of countries put a line or hash mark through their Zs as they do their 7s. I picked the habit up as a pre-teen because I thought it made me seem more worldly and knowledgeable. lol Perhaps they had seen this somewhere and did the same.:rolleyes:

[evelyn24]

I have been away since July 21st and have read the autopsy reports for the first time. I will go back and read them more closely once I try to catch up.

I am convinced now though that it makes sense that there are two shooters. I see one of them as more methodical and cold. The other shooter I see as not as sure of himself or not enraged or cunning as much...he may be younger than the first shooter. He may not be the one that was the mastermind but the follower, instead.

This looks nothing like a professional hit, imo. It is way to chaotic and haphazard. Too many risks taken for a professional hit, imo.

The shots to the face shows someone very capable of murder. They would know that those shots most likely would be lethal such as the chest shots. The other injuries to Skyla either could mean the killer or killers were toying with her before they murdered her. Feasting off the fact that she had to be terrified beyond words especially if Taylor was shot and killed first which I believe she was. I have wondered if Taylor may have stepped forward toward the killers vehicle making herself further away from Skyla. With her purse still over her shoulder it seems she was shot immediately. I don't see the groin shot as having some message. I think Taylor was shot in the groin to help render her helpless and for them to gain control of the situation quickly.

I do believe that teenagers could have done this easily. I have seen some of them at arcades, where they fire what looks like real weapons at human figures on a screen. I have been amazed at how fast and accurate they are when hitting their "target".

The repetitive shots on an open country road reminds me of someone who is extremely immature and more focused on what they came to do rather than the chances they were taking but I have always believed that murderers are the highest risk takers of all, excluding hit men who are always cautious and methodical. The typical murderer does not look at the overall view and logic but has tunnel vision when carrying out what they have planned to do.



imoo


Could be, or it's possible one of the girls was the target and the other just collateral damage. Therefore the coldness and rage directed at one would not be there for the other.

I do agree that this is noway a professional or hired hit. My initial opinion when I heard about this case was a thrill kill by teenage boys, and I'm starting to drift back that way a little. I still would not rule out one shooter though. The POI was seen by a few different people, and as far as I know he was one person..unless another person (younger) was crouched down in the truck.

Glad to have ya' back and always glad to read your opinion on cases.
:)

[c2cd208]

I just re-read the report. Taylor shows abrasions, with there being a bullet hole in her right hand and abrasions on her left side it seems to me that she put her right hand up in defence mode and fell on her left side. I believe that one of the shots to the face is one of the shots that went through her hand. The face shots were first IMO then the others. The bullet wound to the abdomin to me seems like it was made after she fell and was on the ground, like the attacker(s) were standing at her feet or close to her feet when that shot was fired.

[Ruflossn]

Hi, I'm mainly a lurker with an occasional post, I was catching up this evening and saw you were discussing the Zs. I grew up a military brat (all over the word). A lot of countries put a line or hash mark through their Zs as they do their 7s. I picked the habit up as a pre-teen because I thought it made me seem more worldly and knowledgeable. lol Perhaps they had seen this somewhere and did the same.:rolleyes:

GannyP~
I do the same thing w/ my 7's and Z's. I also started when I was young because I thought I was cool to do something that was different. Now my daughter has picked up my habit!!! LOL. :rolleyes:

[c2cd208]

I said it then http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2294303&postcount=382 and stand by it now. I think this is the work of two young men. I personally do not see this as a pro hit, I think Taylor was the target as others have said and I think Skyla was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[GannyP]

Ruflossn,aren't we cool!

[Fairy1]

I said it then http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2294303&postcount=382 and stand by it now. I think this is the work of two young men. I personally do not see this as a pro hit, I think Taylor was the target as others have said and I think Skyla was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

If this is the case, then there is at least one other kid out there, IMO, who knows why this may have happened. I just cannot believe that a teenager could keep this under their hat - unless they are afraid of retaliation. If there were two teen shooters, one of th