Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #16

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here.

LINK TO FORUM (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=162)

Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

Newbies....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

[Tom'sGirl]

[quote=christine2448;2469647]Please continue GENERAL discussions here.

LINK TO FORUM (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=162)

Thanks for the new thread Christine!

[Claycat]

This is strange! Two bodies of teenagers found near Tulsa. Suspect arrested. Probably not related, but odd anyway.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080807_11_Theb538138

[frogjustfrog]

Yes, they were found not that far from our home. just a couple of miles. Broken Arrow area.
So many murders up here it would blow your mind!
We had 7 shootings one week. I try to stay detached, so I dont know how many survived and how many didn't, but I recall hearing that on the news a couple of weeks ago.
2 years ago, there was a bad shooting where someone shot someone point blank in the head for cutting in line at a portable taco stand. Sad

[tulsa]

This is strange! Two bodies of teenagers found near Tulsa. Suspect arrested. Probably not related, but odd anyway.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080807_11_Theb538138

Did anyone see KTUL channel 8 news at 5 o'clock? They did that story. Just as the tv caught my attention they were showing Skyla and Taylor's pictures. And said something about an arrest. My heart leaped. But they were talking about the two teenaged boys. So I either missed something or they goofed up. Anyone else see it?

[lilacwine]

This is a comment from the last two pages of the thread...

I think a small memorial is appropriate. As an educator, kids need some tangibles for things they don't understand. Mourning is a process and if you don't go all the way through it ... it's not possible to move beyond.....

[LifeSaver]

Yes, itsn't that sad. Those boys had been missing a few days. It was reported they left home to walk to Fiesta Mart and never returned. Sounds like there were 3 shot, and one survived. Its a sad world we live in

[Albert18]

This Mary Jane Reed case is a good example why LE should not be able to put a complete blackout on a case.

http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/25839374.html

They are discussing the case in the cold case area.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27392


We had a situation locally where a 22 year old women committed suicide. She was engaged to one of our city policeman. The story we heard was that he broke off the engagement so when he was in the shower she took his gun and shot herself.

We know the family and there is no reason to doubt the story however all of our information came through the grapevine. There was never anything in the newspaper about what happened and the women's obituary just said she died suddenly.

I'm sure the family and the police thought it was in their best interest to keep everything hush but that should not be allowed to happen. Bad things can happen when people get that much power.

[YellowDog]

I cannot for the life of me understand why NO reporter from the entire area is doing any investigative reporting on this case such as reporting on family member backgrounds, interviewing witnesses who were supposedly in the area at the time of the shootings, checking out people who live closest to the scene, etc. A nosy reporter could stir things up a little bit and something might come out.

[SailorMoon]

I cannot imagine why it seems that no one cares but us!! (although I know people do...its just sad!)

[ArizonaGiGi]

I cannot for the life of me understand why NO reporter from the entire area is doing any investigative reporting on this case such as reporting on family member backgrounds, interviewing witnesses who were supposedly in the area at the time of the shootings, checking out people who live closest to the scene, etc. A nosy reporter could stir things up a little bit and something might come out.

You got it YD. This is such an unusual shocking crime that I would have expected reporters to be writing about it every single day even if there is nothing new to report. Dig around and you can find enough info to do a story every single day. Repeat it. Keep it in the news and in peoples conversations.
I would think that a reporter would be jumping on the story to be "the one" that gets the info and possibly helps solves the case.
I just don't get it. To me it feels like Weleetka Oklahoma is some other country. Like Mexico or Sao Paolo Brazil, where violent crime is a way of life and no one really pays much attention. Sheeeesh

[frogjustfrog]

This is a comment from the last two pages of the thread...

I think a small memorial is appropriate. As an educator, kids need some tangibles for things they don't understand. Mourning is a process and if you don't go all the way through it ... it's not possible to move beyond.....

Thank you for saying that. I totally agree. And I still want to contribute to the outdoor memorial in some way, if they decide to do one.

Ya know, we are all impatient, wanting something to happen. Myself included. But my spirit tells me that good things come in time, with faith. I will give Ms Mankin and the board time to get adjusted to the back to school schedule, and if she doesnt call me in a week or so, I will call her back and ask if they decided on a memorial garden and what I (we) can do to help. I believe it will not only help the students, families, and faculity to heal, but it could help us too.

[frogjustfrog]

I cannot for the life of me understand why NO reporter from the entire area is doing any investigative reporting on this case such as reporting on family member backgrounds, interviewing witnesses who were supposedly in the area at the time of the shootings, checking out people who live closest to the scene, etc. A nosy reporter could stir things up a little bit and something might come out.

Again, we are all feeling impatient. We are not only interested in this crime, but our hearts are in it.

I know that some LOCAL reporters are VERY interested! Interested enough that they come here to try to find something, anything, that can help them write a story, or to dig a story. That is how tight lipped it is with LE. No reporter can get information!

I would like to add that I feel like the local newspaper in Henryetta has enough integrity NOT to be writing things every day that is mere speculation. They simply do not have info for a story. Just like we do not have info. And I cant imagine them writing a story from forum speculation. Trust me, they care. They are just as disappointed about it all as we are. And when they hear things like this, it is upsetting to them as reporters, to know that people think they dont care. They care ALOT!!!
I know reporters from there. I speak with them on occasion. Their hearts are broken too! To say shattered probably wouldnt be exaggerating. And no, they are not withholding any information. Apparently LE isnt letting out what they dont want printed or on any media. We saw that in the last presser from the Okfuskee Co courthouse, dont ya think?

Thank you for hearing me out. I say these things with a soft voice.

[Tom'sGirl]

Weleetka girls shot multiple times, autopsy shows

By Johnny Johnson
Staff Writer
WELEETKA — Two months after the bullet-riddled bodies of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whitaker were found lying along side a gravel road, the medical examiner's office has released the girls' autopsy results.

The details of their deaths come on the same day the two best friends would have been starting a new school year. Taylor, 13, would have been going into the seventh grade, and Skyla, 11, would have spent her first day of school as a sixth-grader.

Taylor was shot five times, three of which were in the face, once in the groin and once in her right hand, according to the report. Two of the shots were ruled potentially fatal.

Skyla was shot a total of eight times, including one shot to the neck, and seven to the arms and torso.

The autopsies did not indicate there was any evidence of sexual trauma to either girl.

Authorities say they have no suspect or motive in the killings.
http://newsok.com/weleetka-girls-shot-eight-and-five-times-autopsy-shows/article/3280866/?tm=1218227548 (http://newsok.com/weleetka-girls-shot-eight-and-five-times-autopsy-shows/article/3280866/?tm=1218227548)

ETA: Offical document in Links thread/Sklya Whitaker's only, Taylor's is not available at this time for some reason.

[lilacwine]

Weleetka girls shot multiple times, autopsy shows

By Johnny Johnson
Staff Writer
WELEETKA — Two months after the bullet-riddled bodies of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whitaker were found lying along side a gravel road, the medical examiner's office has released the girls' autopsy results.

The details of their deaths come on the same day the two best friends would have been starting a new school year. Taylor, 13, would have been going into the seventh grade, and Skyla, 11, would have spent her first day of school as a sixth-grader.

Taylor was shot five times, three of which were in the face, once in the groin and once in her right hand, according to the report. Two of the shots were ruled potentially fatal.

Skyla was shot a total of eight times, including one shot to the neck, and seven to the arms and torso.

The autopsies did not indicate there was any evidence of sexual trauma to either girl.

Authorities say they have no suspect or motive in the killings.
http://newsok.com/weleetka-girls-shot-eight-and-five-times-autopsy-shows/article/3280866/?tm=1218227548 (http://newsok.com/weleetka-girls-shot-eight-and-five-times-autopsy-shows/article/3280866/?tm=1218227548)


Oh my word... if the killer(s) are never found this will be a grave injustice.

[DeltaDawn]

Wow..all those shots, yet only a couple were fatal. Could this be someone driving by and only slowed down? Or a person not experienced in killing others..why so many shots in so many areas? Were the girls moving so that they wouldn't get a clear shot? This puzzles me..an experienced shooter would have only needed one shot each.....hmmm

[Tom'sGirl]

Wow..all those shots, yet only a couple were fatal. Could this be someone driving by and only slowed down? Or a person not experienced in killing others..why so many shots in so many areas? Were the girls moving so that they wouldn't get a clear shot? This puzzles me..an experienced shooter would have only needed one shot each.....hmmm
Did you read the ME report on Sklya & Taylor up in Links thread?

[frogjustfrog]

Thank you for that information, TG. I'm sure alot of us are weeping after reading. I am. It brings the actuality brutality to life once more.

[FlowerChild]

While Skyla was shot more times, I feel that Taylor was the main focus of the anger here - she was shot 3 times in the FACE, that says anger or vindication to me, almost like the killer was trying to destroy her essence, who she was, her face, her eyes, etc. I also think she must have been right in the killers face..up close. Skyla was further away, behind Taylor - like Taylor was the one who knew this person (or the killer knew HER and called her over?)

This was no accidental shooting or a thrill kill, this was focused and the killer was right there - couldn't have been more than a few feet away - Skyla had residue on her from the neck shot and when Taylor's autopsy is released, I betcha she had residue all over her. And there were at least two guns and one held 6+ bullets because there were at least 13 shots - unless one passed thru Taylor and hit Skyla 2nd - that isn't clear although most of the shots were through and through. Just another indication that this was an ATTACK and the killer wanted the girls both dead - two guns were emptied - complete overkill. Skyla was already dead when the last shot was made into her neck - it barely bled. Obviously the killer stepped closer for that shot, residue on Skyla says so.

One thing we can assume based on Skyla's autopsy is that the killer was shooting from a vehicle or was taller than the girls - the body shots went rather downward from the entrance wounds. The other thing is that I think this was one killer (not two) since Skyla was initially shot from further away than Taylor.

The final thing is that the killer must have had blood on him - those face shots would have been messy and at least his hand and arm would have gotten blow-back on them. If the killer shot from a vehicle, then the vehicle had blood on it.

The killer(s) looked two girls in the face and killed them - that's one cold and dead inside killer when you could look into two sets of innocent eyes and then shoot them like they were nothing and then calmly walk/drive away and disappear. Somebody is walking around with a lot of evil and hate inside him - nothing inside this killer worth saving, he's a rabid dog who should be put down when they find him.

My Opinion

[YellowDog]

Again, we are all feeling impatient. We are not only interested in this crime, but our hearts are in it.

I know that some LOCAL reporters are VERY interested! Interested enough that they come here to try to find something, anything, that can help them write a story, or to dig a story. That is how tight lipped it is with LE. No reporter can get information!

I would like to add that I feel like the local newspaper in Henryetta has enough integrity NOT to be writing things every day that is mere speculation. They simply do not have info for a story. Just like we do not have info. And I cant imagine them writing a story from forum speculation. Trust me, they care. They are just as disappointed about it all as we are. And when they hear things like this, it is upsetting to them as reporters, to know that people think they dont care. They care ALOT!!!
I know reporters from there. I speak with them on occasion. Their hearts are broken too! To say shattered probably wouldnt be exaggerating. And no, they are not withholding any information. Apparently LE isnt letting out what they dont want printed or on any media. We saw that in the last presser from the Okfuskee Co courthouse, dont ya think?

Thank you for hearing me out. I say these things with a soft voice.

No, I don't think they will get anything from the LE. No one is getting any information from them.

I meant do some delving on their own through interviews with locals, etc.
At this point, anything.................as small as it might be would be better than nothing every day and they might stumble onto a clue.

What are they trying to prove by releasing nothing? They say they have no suspects so why wouldn't a little help from the public be welcome at this point?

I'm just confused as to how they think this will ever help solve the case.

When this case first broke, I felt like it would be solved within days.....broad daylight.......people in the vicinity......a person of interest. Now, two months later, we're all still in the dark.

[Maggie22]

Yes, they were found not that far from our home. just a couple of miles. Broken Arrow area.
So many murders up here it would blow your mind!
We had 7 shootings one week. I try to stay detached, so I dont know how many survived and how many didn't, but I recall hearing that on the news a couple of weeks ago.
2 years ago, there was a bad shooting where someone shot someone point blank in the head for cutting in line at a portable taco stand. Sad

Frogjustfrog!!! We are neighbors. I live in BA near 71st and 193rd. I often take 41st when I go to east Tulsa to avoid the traffic. It is mostly fields. There are a lot of Oklahomans here. We should fly an Oklahoma flag. :D Maggie

[FlowerChild]

Wow..all those shots, yet only a couple were fatal. Could this be someone driving by and only slowed down? Or a person not experienced in killing others..why so many shots in so many areas? Were the girls moving so that they wouldn't get a clear shot? This puzzles me..an experienced shooter would have only needed one shot each.....hmmm
I think the killer(s) wanted Taylor - Skyla was collateral damage. Taylor was shot 3 times in THE FACE, I am sure the killer was 1st focused on Taylor and THEN turned to Skyla - who didn't even have time to turn away. Those were very rapid shots - even if some were off-target. I think they were accurate enough - 13 shots and two dead girls in a period of probably 60 seconds tops.

Yes an experienced killer might only have needed one shot - but that wouldn't have satisfied this killer - this killer wanted to make a BIG bloody statement of hate and anger...and he did. This killer wanted the shock value and the overkill and to send a message of some kind. You don't do something like this unless you are making a point - either to yourself or others.

And I think this message was meant for Taylor or her family - 3 shots to the face says so.

My Opinion

[Tom'sGirl]

Thank you for that information, TG. I'm sure alot of us are weeping after reading. I am. It brings the actuality brutality to life once more.
One thing I noted on the ME's report regarding Taylor page 4 & on the diagram There is heart shape tattoo over the left breast region.

[Ruflossn]

I just finished reading the autopsy reports. I had assumed the tattoo was not permanently inked. But, it said nothing about it being a temporary tattoo. Wow. Also, what was w/ all the writing on the abdomens? Any ideas?

Ruflossn

[Tom'sGirl]

I just finished reading the autopsy reports. I had assumed the tattoo was not permanently inked. But, it said nothing about it being a temporary tattoo. Wow. Also, what was w/ all the writing on the abdomens? Any ideas?

Ruflossn
It was a permanent tattoo or they would have stipulated it otherwise like they did with the other markings on her.

No ideas on the other markings except that maybe they wrote on each other fun fun???

[Ruflossn]

I agree about the markings. I think the girls did it to have fun and be 'kids'. And, you are right, the tattoo had to be permanent or it would have been noted differently. I just never assumed a child that age would have a perm. tattoo.

[Tom'sGirl]

I agree about the markings. I think the girls did it to have fun and be 'kids'. And, you are right, the tattoo had to be permanent or it would have been noted differently. I just never assumed a child that age would have a perm. tattoo.
Yep, makes me wonder who did the 'tat' on her, and when?

[Ruflossn]

Yep, makes me wonder who did the 'tat' on her, and when?

hmmmmm,
good question.

[Tom'sGirl]

hmmmmm,
good question.
LOL, Im reading your posts here, and over at 'T"

[Ruflossn]

LOL, Im reading your posts here, and over at 'T"

How do you know who I am at T?

[Ruflossn]

LOL, Im reading your posts here, and over at 'T"

Tom'sGirl~
I thought I was more clever than that!!! LOL.
I am leaving for dinner. I'll probably be back later. Can't seem to get away from this case.

Ruflossn

[frogjustfrog]

It was a permanent tattoo or they would have stipulated it otherwise like they did with the other markings on her.

No ideas on the other markings except that maybe they wrote on each other fun fun???



Just my opinion, but I would think that is kinda young to have a tattoo over her newly developing breast.
At first I wondered if someone could have wrote on them after the killings. I guess now, but the closeness to the bodies like that could have left other DNA.
My comments in red

[frogjustfrog]

I thought I had seen it done that way before, with the remark at the bottom which described that it was MY comment. sorry. Like I said, I am new to this, and will probably fade away after this is over. I Hope it will be over and someone HUNG!

[Tom'sGirl]

Just my opinion, but I would think that is kinda young to have a tattoo over her newly developing breast.
At first I wondered if someone could have wrote on them after the killings. I guess now, but the closeness to the bodies like that could have left other DNA.
My comments in red
If Taylor hadn't been the country girl tomboy type, but rather an overly mature child for her age I wouldn't have thought it strange about the 'tat', or the location.

Grandma/mom had to have known about it :(

[Annie]

Both girls had abrasions on them and several of the bullets were not recovered. I think there is a possibility the girls were originally shot somewhere else and placed at that spot and maybe shot again. I have mentioned this before and I know some of you don't agree with me. I think the odd angle of the truck may have been to dump the girls bodies. It makes me so sad to think how scared these children were. How could anyone inflict such pain on children? I hope they find the person or persons soon.

[Claycat]

I think the killer(s) wanted Taylor - Skyla was collateral damage. Taylor was shot 3 times in THE FACE, I am sure the killer was 1st focused on Taylor and THEN turned to Skyla - who didn't even have time to turn away. Those were very rapid shots - even if some were off-target. I think they were accurate enough - 13 shots and two dead girls in a period of probably 60 seconds tops.

Yes an experienced killer might only have needed one shot - but that wouldn't have satisfied this killer - this killer wanted to make a BIG bloody statement of hate and anger...and he did. This killer wanted the shock value and the overkill and to send a message of some kind. You don't do something like this unless you are making a point - either to yourself or others.

And I think this message was meant for Taylor or her family - 3 shots to the face says so.

My Opinion

I totally agree FlowerChild!

[LifeSaver]

I totally agree FlowerChild!

I feel anger, revenge and literally sick to my stomach. I can't think of anything to say, totally speechless. God Bless those familes.

[GetSmart]

Well I have been gone all day & come home to this...
When I read about Taylor's gunshot to the hand I could see her throwing her hand up to her face. Those poor babies. I wish I had not read the report. What do you think the "Z" was about? They both had a Z

[YellowDog]

Just my opinion, but I would think that is kinda young to have a tattoo over her newly developing breast.
At first I wondered if someone could have wrote on them after the killings. I guess now, but the closeness to the bodies like that could have left other DNA.
My comments in red

I thought it was illegal for a minor to get a tattoo.

[GetSmart]

She could have had a family member do it..ie Linda or anyone. or It could have have been a fake. I was thinking about the large over the shoulder bag Taylor was carrying.. maybe that is what she had her dog in.

[YellowDog]

There may be some very good clues in the writings on their bodies. From the writings on Skyla's body, someone else would have had to write that unless she wrote it upside down. And I don't think she could have done the "Z" on her backside.

[Tom'sGirl]

I thought it was illegal for a minor to get a tattoo.
It's illegal at a Certified/Bonded 'Tat' shop, doubt she went to one, probably a family member 'tatted' her.

[Tom'sGirl]

There may be some very good clues in the writings on their bodies. From the writings on Skyla's body, someone else would have had to write that unless she wrote it upside down. And I don't think she could have done the "Z" on her backside.

Little children have paint parties with washable paint that they paint one another. I don't read anything into two girls that age using markers to do the same during a sleep over.

I do wonder about other things in the ME's report. I would think two young kids like that would have at least been munching on snacks even if they hadn't eaten dinner yet.

In view of the fact that they were murdered late in the afternoon, and their stomachs were empty of food sounds very strange, especially for Taylor who was not a slightly built girl like Skyla.

[GetSmart]

Little children have paint parties with washable paint that they paint one another. I don't read anything into two girls that age using markers to do the same during a sleep over.

I do wonder about other things in the ME's report. I would think two young kids like that would have at least been munching on snacks even if they hadn't eaten dinner yet.

In view of the fact that they were murdered late in the afternoon, and their stomachs were empty of food sounds very strange, especially for Taylor who was not a slightly built girl like Skyla.


Ditto ..I thought about the same thing. To me that just seems odd. Kids that age are always snacking.

[YellowDog]

Except for the fact that little girls that age are usually pretty modest and some of those markings appear to be in areas that they wouldn't be exposing to others.

[YellowDog]

Was Taylor carrying something to deliver in that bag? It seems kind of strange to me that she would carry a bag on a casual walk down to the bridge unless there was food and drinks in it.

[Albert18]

In Taylors clothing, what is a "Bething Top"?

And what is "Zoey Beth, M" on the shorts? Is that a brand name?

So one shot per girl has powder burns. That is interesting.

I don't think there is any question, Taylor was the reason for the rage. So was it a personal rage at Taylor or someone in the family? My first impression is that it was Taylor.

[GetSmart]

. I was thinking about the large over the shoulder bag Taylor was carrying.. maybe that is what she had her dog in
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:p7_IY7-D7tU_iM:http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/6/1/2/3/5/webimg/121367476_o.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/6/1/2/3/5/webimg/121367476_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ioffer.com/i/48463541&h=600&w=600&sz=55&hl=en&start=141&um=1&tbnid=p7_IY7-D7tU_iM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpurse%2Bto%2Bcarry%2Bdogs%26start%3D1 40%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfiref ox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN) just an example.

[CMorrison64]

Is the actual autopsy somewhere? I can't seem to find it.

[Tom'sGirl]

Is the actual autopsy somewhere? I can't seem to find it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2474291&postcount=50

[SeriouslySearching]

Oh, My! Those autopsy reports are very disturbing. It does clear up a few issues and raise more tho.

They were definitely found on their backs as per the blood being concentrated on the back of the clothing. (I had contended this all along, but FC argued that point!) It would appear to me since Skyla was shot 8 times from different angles that she would be the intended target, if there actually was one.

I realize that whole Zannessa thing is about High School Musical with the paints so the girls probably did write it, but I find it odd that Taylor's name was mispelled.

[EnvoyDriver61]

FlowerChild writes:

One thing we can assume based on Skyla's autopsy is that the killer was shooting from a vehicle or was taller than the girls - the body shots went rather downward from the entrance wounds. The other thing is that I think this was one killer (not two) since Skyla was initially shot from further away than Taylor.

I agree that the killer was either taller or was shooting from a vehicle. However, if it was a single shooter as you surmise, the person, if shooting from a vehicle either has to be a very good shot through his/her vehicle (driving south and shooting through the passenger window), or he/she has to be driving north and shooting from the driver side, and therefore left-handed.

The trajectories don't appear to be angled enough for a person to be standing in the back of a pick-up. So, if it was a single person, they had to get out and shoot at least one bullet on each girl up close: Skyla's with residue and Taylor's groin shot since it traveled up from the entrance to the liver and diaphragm area.

So, if the person IS driving in an auto, they have to be a really good shot if right-handed, or they have to be left-handed. The only other theory I can come up with is someone possibly sitting in the bed of a pickup and shooting from there as they go by.

I'd suggest someone ambushed them, but they were shot from the front (from where they were walking), or from the east of the road, but if the killer did walk, they were fairly close when GPa was around. I just don't see the girls approaching a stranger in the road, so I think a walking ambush by the killer was out of the questions.

Skyla is definitely retreating as she was found 5 feet from Taylor AND her head was laying southwest. She must have had time to turn her torso somewhat and expose the right side to the killer.

Taylor's hand wound is probably defensive and thus the second or third shot.

I think there are two killers. I just don't see one person being able to do this with two guns in that short of time, with the other considerations of shooting style, etc.

[GetSmart]

Albert18;]In Taylors clothing, what is a "Bething Top"?

And what is "Zoey Beth, M" on the shorts? Is that a brand name?


http://cgi.ebay.com/REALLY-NICE-JUNIORS-ZOEY-BETH-SHIRT-SIZE-MEDIUM_W0QQitemZ220264832831QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em220264832831&_trkparms=72%3A1071%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318


REALLY NICE JUNIORS ZOEY BETH SHIRT SIZE M
http://i12.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/00/fc/633c_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/REALLY-NICE-JUNIORS-ZOEY-BETH-SHIRT-SIZE-MEDIUM_W0QQitemZ220264832831QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em220264832831&_trkparms=72%3A1071%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318#ebayphotohosting)

[Claycat]

So one shot per girl has powder burns. That is interesting.


I guess that would be the kill shot.

I read the autopsies, and they made me sick at heart.

[MCDRAW]

I at first thought that Taylor was the target being shot in the face. But it almost seems to me that the shooter wanted to torture Skyla, to cause her pain, to make her suffer. I wonder if the "Z" painted on their bodies stood for Zac. And I wonder if Zac was a boy they knew from the area or Zac Effron that plays Troy on High School Musical.

[GetSmart]

Hi CC I wanted to re-read them to get a better understanding because I missed the tattoo at first but it was so emotional to read I hurried. I am having a hard time reading them.

[Claycat]

I agree EnvoyDriver that there are two killers. One may have shot from the vehicle, but the other one got out and delivered the shots that left powder residue, the kill shots.

[MCDRAW]

I think there are two shooters too.

[frogjustfrog]

I at first thought that Taylor was the target being shot in the face. But it almost seems to me that the shooter wanted to torture Skyla, to cause her pain, to make her suffer. I wonder if the "Z" painted on their bodies stood for Zac. And I wonder if Zac was a boy they knew from the area or Zac Effron that plays Troy on High School Musical.


I remember when I was a kid, my first love, (if you call it that at that age) was Davy Jones of the Monkees. I wrote his name everywhere. Even inside the shower, really high to the top where it might not be seen easily by anyone but me. I wrote Davy on absolutely everything.

My granddaughter had alot of Zoey Beth clothing she bought at the dollar store. It is a very inexpensive but cute brand.
I'm sure bething meant bathing suit top.

[frogjustfrog]

I think there are two shooters too.

My mind is actually going back to those kids, in the truck, like I pictured in the very first place.

Statements keep going back to the POI, hiding the bodies with his truck, but iIF it was reported correctly, either by the one who saw the poi on that road, or by the OSBI, the person who saw the poi said the girls were alive at that time.

I dont have any idea what to believe at this point. I have cried all evening!

[RoseRed]

In Taylors clothing, what is a "Bething Top"?

And what is "Zoey Beth, M" on the shorts? Is that a brand name?

So one shot per girl has powder burns. That is interesting.

I don't think there is any question, Taylor was the reason for the rage. So was it a personal rage at Taylor or someone in the family? My first impression is that it was Taylor.

Did you notice though Taylor had more of the small bullets and Skyla had more from the larger gun.

[Ann Fan]

I at first thought that Taylor was the target being shot in the face. But it almost seems to me that the shooter wanted to torture Skyla, to cause her pain, to make her suffer. I wonder if the "Z" painted on their bodies stood for Zac. And I wonder if Zac was a boy they knew from the area or Zac Effron that plays Troy on High School Musical.

I am thinking the Z most likely is in reference to Zac Effron from High School Musical - based on what young teens like these days - I'm sure when LE searched their rooms they would have determined whether or not that was something the girls were interested in - usually many posters, pics, dvd's, cd's, etc. The students I know personally have every line of the whole musical memorized. Students that age also write on themselves with waterproof markers - that is pretty common. What is not common at that age is a permenant tatoo - that stands out to me as very odd. And now we know how many shots were fired in to these precious girls - we still don't know why nobody HEARD THEM ????? jmo

[Ann Fan]

I totally agree FlowerChild!

I think Flowerchild and Claycat are right on the money. It makes a lot of sense.

[Ann Fan]

I totally agree FlowerChild!

Yes, they were found not that far from our home. just a couple of miles. Broken Arrow area.
So many murders up here it would blow your mind!
We had 7 shootings one week. I try to stay detached, so I dont know how many survived and how many didn't, but I recall hearing that on the news a couple of weeks ago.
2 years ago, there was a bad shooting where someone shot someone point blank in the head for cutting in line at a portable taco stand. Sad

I am not too far from you either frog - just a town or two (and a football rivalry away) small world.

[ArizonaGiGi]

[quote=Albert18;2475454]In Taylors clothing, what is a "Bething Top"?

And what is "Zoey Beth, M" on the shorts? Is that a brand name?

So one shot per girl has powder burns. That is interesting.

I don't think there is any question, Taylor was the reason for the rage. So was it a personal rage at Taylor or someone in the family? My first impression is

It's a brand. Size Medium

~snip~ quote; SS

"I realize that whole Zannessa thing is about High School Musical with the paints so the girls probably did write it, but I find it odd that Taylor's name was mispelled."

SS Maybe it's not TAYLOR PLACKER but a different Talor (sp)?

[ArizonaGiGi]

Did you notice though Taylor had more of the small bullets and Skyla had more from the larger gun.

I haven't read Taylors report, only Skylas but if that is the case, that's verrrrry interesting. Gonna go read Taylors now....

[SeriouslySearching]

AzGiGi~ Since Skyla had her name on Taylor, I would have to assume it was Taylor who wrote her name, but it is just odd. Maybe it is how Taylor would have liked her name to be spelled to be different tho.

The tattoo of the heart is curious. I would like to know more about who did that and if the grandparents allowed it.

It doesn't seem to me the shots were fired from a vehicle at all with the angles. Also, the abrasions on the girls I haven't figured out yet either. Lower back, thighs, shins, and top of left foot just doesn't jive for me.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think there are two shooters too.I tend to agree with this theory more now.

Another thing that stood out to me is that Skyla's grandmother did in fact describe accurately where the bullet wounds were on her which tells me she wasn't lying about seeing them. The only question remaining on that issue is when she saw them.

[ArizonaGiGi]

AzGiGi~ Since Skyla had her name on Taylor, I would have to assume it was Taylor who wrote her name, but it is just odd. Maybe it is how Taylor would have liked her name to be spelled to be different tho.

The tattoo of the heart is curious. I would like to know more about who did that and if the grandparents allowed it.

It doesn't seem to me the shots were fired from a vehicle at all with the angles. Also, the abrasions on the girls I haven't figured out yet either. Lower back, thighs, shins, and top of left foot just doesn't jive for me.

I haven't read Taylors report yet - didn't know Skyla's name was on Taylor. So that was probably Taylors name just misspelled. And the heart tatoo is very odd to me. On a 13 yr old! Like you I want to know more about that. Who did it and did the Gparents know about it. gonna go read Taylors report now

Ok back from reading Taylors report. WOW. 3 shots to the face speaks volumes. And the large bag she was carrying. It would be easy for LE to to tell if she carried her little dog in it or had been carrying something else in it.
And it's odd to me that they hadn't eaten anything. Nothing. So late in the day.
I had to smile when I was reading the part about the markers. Little girls acting like little girls. I'm glad to think about the fun they had together that weekend doing silly girl stuff.

[Busylady]

Taylor also had a flower tatoo on her hip, or am I reading that wrong?

[FlowerChild]

Here's how the scenario appears to me based on the autopsy.
Taylor was shot 1st - 1x in the face - then Skyla 4X in the neck and chest (same gun) and then the killer turned back and shot Taylor a second time in the body. Then 1st gun is empty - bring out the 2nd smaller gun - Taylor shot 2 X in the face that gun, she was already gone (1st shots killed her) - the other 4 shots went into Skyla including the neck shot who because she was further away and did not die as fast.

I think most of the abrasions were on the girls already - typical play scrapes, not as a result of the murderes. They didn't have time to get banged or scraped up - it happened too fast - they would have just fallen where they were shot.

I don't think the killer was torturing Skyla - she was just the secondary target and further away - the killer shot her 1st from where he was standing in front of Taylor so he wasn't as accurate - he kinda had to shoot around Taylor at first. He still managed to drop Skyla with the 1st shot - maybe not kill her, but she went down. She was also a smaller target. The last shots on both girls was from point blank to make sure they were dead.

Three face shots and only one body shot on Taylor - there is NOTHING could make it more clear to me that it was one shooter, he was shooting from a standing position (not in a car) and he went to kill Taylor - erase Taylor, destroy Taylor, shut Taylor up, hurt Taylor. 4 shots - one from maybe a foot or two away while Skyla was shot mostly from a distance because she was behind Taylor who was standing facing the killer - maybe 5 feet (at most) away when he started shooting. This killer went to kill Taylor - she was not afraid of him - he either surprised her or she knew him or she was approaching him or talking to him when he shot her. I personally think the overkill was to MAKE SURE Taylor was dead because SHE could ID him. One killer because the shots were heard, fast and furious - not at the same time (as in two shooters) but consecutivly (one shooter) and because two shooters would have meant BOTH girls would have fallen before they had time to step back - Skyla did have time and she was obviously FUTHER from the shooter - meaning one shooter from one position, at least initially. This was one guy and he went ready to shoot multiple people - like maybe he was going to shoot MORE victims in the house but saw the easy target of the girls and went for that. This guy came to KILL PEOPLE.

Skyla's autopsy says she was found supine (face up) - Taylors indicates she was on her back OR her right side. We do not know for sure they actually fell this way - the killer may have turned them over or GPa MIGHT have turned them over when he found them..it would be a natural instinct to do so - to see if they were alive. They hadn't been dead more than 20 minutes when they were found - the blood on the back of their clothing could have gotten there AFTER they were turned face up - they would still be bleeding out. Skyla's head was southwesterly - she was turning to run for safety (The Placker house) when she fell. She did have time to step back and start to turn away - again showing that Taylor was the 1st/main target.

So, I say one shooter and he came to kill somebody inside, at or at or from the Placker house. And he knew Taylor - she was the primary target. Skyla was just the collateral damage - she was killed becuase she was WITH Taylor when the killer found her. It seems this killer was prepared to kill everyone he encountered - only two girls so he emptied 2 guns into them - and took the time to step in close to make sure they were dead before he left. He would have been blood spattered too, if the POI was seen AFTER the shots were heard, he didn't kill the girls, because he wasn't bloody. Whoever did this definitely got Taylor's blood on him and MAYBE her blood on the outside of the vehicle (if there was one) depending on how close it was parked to Taylor.

Wonder who came home and burned a shirt and pants that day, or disposed of a set of clothing and a pair of shoes ??? If the killer left in a car - there would be blood inside it too, mostly Taylors but traces of Skyla's blood too. This guy got CLOSE to both girls and may even have touched their bodies - OH PLEASE LET THERE BE DNA!!! Please let this killer be chased down and eliminated (because he was shooting at the cops) like a rabid dog, I don't even want to waste the time or money on a DP trial - we all know he will end up on death row - no need to wait.

And after all we know about Taylor's family it does NOT surprise me she had a tattoo, it may even have been a crude "jail-house" home-made tattoo - self-done - did anyone else notice the heart was upside down from a viewers perspective? Like maybe Taylor did it on herself?

My Opinion

[MCDRAW]

I tend to agree with this theory more now.

Another thing that stood out to me is that Skyla's grandmother did in fact describe accurately where the bullet wounds were on her which tells me she wasn't lying about seeing them. The only question remaining on that issue is when she saw them.


I noticed that too.

[SailorMoon]

Yep, makes me wonder who did the 'tat' on her, and when?


Exactly. I found this odd. I have teens and live in Dallas and see all sorts of things, but I wouldn't let my 13 yo get a perm tattoo. I know my ex did a lot of tats while in prison and did some/plans on doing some when he gets out. Maybe one of the jailhouse relatives did it?? If a shop did it permission slips and parent to be there to sign, which is no big deal, but who knows.

The autopsies made me sad. Taylor was carrying a purse and Skyla had on slippers. ?? Probably nothing but makes me wonder more about what they did prior to this day.
(OT - and probably no one is reading here but me right now, but read on fox news that Bernie Macs publicist is saying he is dead....no other story)

[CMorrison64]

Those autopsies had me crying my heart out!!!! How very sad to imagine what these little girls felt and went thru and the SOB that did this, I just want to wrap my hands around his neck and choke the life out of him. :furious:

[Shutterfly]

Where are you guys getting all this info about the autopsies? I can't find anything except the news article about how many times they were shot??? What am I doing wrong here....somebody help me.....pweeze?

[Shutterfly]

Nevermind...sowwy....I'm an idiot and apparently I can't read english today. My bad.

[Claycat]

Those autopsies had me crying my heart out!!!! How very sad to imagine what these little girls felt and went thru and the SOB that did this, I just want to wrap my hands around his neck and choke the life out of him. :furious:

I feel the same way!

[LifeSaver]

Here's how the scenario appears to me based on the autopsy.
Taylor was shot 1st - 1x in the face - then Skyla 4X in the neck and chest (same gun) and then the killer turned back and shot Taylor a second time in the body. Then 1st gun is empty - bring out the 2nd smaller gun - Taylor shot 2 X in the face that gun, she was already gone (1st shots killed her) - the other 4 shots went into Skyla including the neck shot who because she was further away and did not die as fast.

I think most of the abrasions were on the girls already - typical play scrapes, not as a result of the murderes. They didn't have time to get banged or scraped up - it happened too fast - they would have just fallen where they were shot.

I don't think the killer was torturing Skyla - she was just the secondary target and further away - the killer shot her 1st from where he was standing in front of Taylor so he wasn't as accurate - he kinda had to shoot around Taylor at first. He still managed to drop Skyla with the 1st shot - maybe not kill her, but she went down. She was also a smaller target. The last shots on both girls was from point blank to make sure they were dead.

Three face shots and only one body shot on Taylor - there is NOTHING could make it more clear to me that it was one shooter, he was shooting from a standing position (not in a car) and he went to kill Taylor - erase Taylor, destroy Taylor, shut Taylor up, hurt Taylor. 4 shots - one from maybe a foot or two away while Skyla was shot mostly from a distance because she was behind Taylor who was standing facing the killer - maybe 5 feet (at most) away when he started shooting. This killer went to kill Taylor - she was not afraid of him - he either surprised her or she knew him or she was approaching him or talking to him when he shot her. I personally think the overkill was to MAKE SURE Taylor was dead because SHE could ID him. One killer because the shots were heard, fast and furious - not at the same time (as in two shooters) but consecutivly (one shooter) and because two shooters would have meant BOTH girls would have fallen before they had time to step back - Skyla did have time and she was obviously FUTHER from the shooter - meaning one shooter from one position, at least initially. This was one guy and he went ready to shoot multiple people - like maybe he was going to shoot MORE victims in the house but saw the easy target of the girls and went for that. This guy came to KILL PEOPLE.

Skyla's autopsy says she was found supine (face up) - Taylors indicates she was on her back OR her right side. We do not know for sure they actually fell this way - the killer may have turned them over or GPa MIGHT have turned them over when he found them..it would be a natural instinct to do so - to see if they were alive. They hadn't been dead more than 20 minutes when they were found - the blood on the back of their clothing could have gotten there AFTER they were turned face up - they would still be bleeding out. Skyla's head was southwesterly - she was turning to run for safety (The Placker house) when she fell. She did have time to step back and start to turn away - again showing that Taylor was the 1st/main target.

So, I say one shooter and he came to kill somebody inside, at or at or from the Placker house. And he knew Taylor - she was the primary target. Skyla was just the collateral damage - she was killed becuase she was WITH Taylor when the killer found her. It seems this killer was prepared to kill everyone he encountered - only two girls so he emptied 2 guns into them - and took the time to step in close to make sure they were dead before he left. He would have been blood spattered too, if the POI was seen AFTER the shots were heard, he didn't kill the girls, because he wasn't bloody. Whoever did this definitely got Taylor's blood on him and MAYBE her blood on the outside of the vehicle (if there was one) depending on how close it was parked to Taylor.

Wonder who came home and burned a shirt and pants that day, or disposed of a set of clothing and a pair of shoes ??? If the killer left in a car - there would be blood inside it too, mostly Taylors but traces of Skyla's blood too. This guy got CLOSE to both girls and may even have touched their bodies - OH PLEASE LET THERE BE DNA!!! Please let this killer be chased down and eliminated (because he was shooting at the cops) like a rabid dog, I don't even want to waste the time or money on a DP trial - we all know he will end up on death row - no need to wait.

And after all we know about Taylor's family it does NOT surprise me she had a tattoo, it may even have been a crude "jail-house" home-made tattoo - self-done - did anyone else notice the heart was upside down from a viewers perspective? Like maybe Taylor did it on herself?

My Opinion

Oh, I knew this would happen, attacking the familes again. Judging, Judging...I won't be back to this forum, you people have no feelings, just pointing fingers.Bye, and when one of your family members are murdered, the same might come back to you.

[fabvab]

Oh, I knew this would happen, attacking the familes again. Judging, Judging...I won't be back to this forum, you people have no feelings, just pointing fingers.Bye, and when one of your family members are murdered, the same might come back to you.
Well...FlowerChild is correct. Taylor had 2 tattoos which is not the norm at all for a child her age.

[Tom'sGirl]

Taylor also had a flower tatoo on her hip, or am I reading that wrong?
I had completely missed that on the diagram showing her right hip with the 'tat'..........thanks Busy!

[Tom'sGirl]

Well...FlowerChild is correct. Taylor had 2 tattoos which is not the norm at all for a child her age.
FC didn't mention the two tattoos, BusyLady did!

[Albert18]

I don't think it is a coincidence Skyla wasn't shot in the head or face. The close shot to Skyla was to the neck. Apparently he couldn't bring himself to shoot her in the head. He had no such problem with Taylor.

[YellowDog]

The reason there was no food in the bodies could be that the girls stayed up all night watching TV, playing games, etc. and then slept all day like kids that age can do. Maybe they hadn't been up very long.

I'm wondering, since the "Z"s are on their back side if someone could have possibly branded them. I know that's bizarre but that's the first thought that came to mind.

I think it would have been too hot to put the dog in a purse so I'm thinking the purse was for some other reason, but what?

[Shutterfly]

The reason there was no food in the bodies could be that the girls stayed up all night watching TV, playing games, etc. and then slept all day like kids that age can do. Maybe they hadn't been up very long.

I'm wondering, since the "Z"s are on their back side if someone could have possibly branded them. I know that's bizarre but that's the first thought that came to mind.

I think it would have been too hot to put the dog in a purse so I'm thinking the purse was for some other reason, but what?

Heck, I was big sh*t at thirteen carrying that purse around...or so I thought. I carried that sucker everywhere but into the shower....and even then it was left on the bathroom floor. Leave home to go walking and NOT carry my lil ole purse...no way.

[Just Nose'n around]

Earlier on in the case someone, either here or on good ol' Topix, had some info about bullets. Does anyone here know, with the info on the reports, what possible guns could have been used to shoot the bullets recovered? They were only able to recover the smaller bullets, correct, none of the larger ones?

[SeriouslySearching]

The Z's obviously stood for Zannessa (Zac and Vannessa from High School Musical). It sounds like the girls were very into it. I am wondering if the Z's weren't done by the girls themselves and rather "scratched" on in an attempt at tats since they were scabbed over.

Would the ME have categorized the rub-on tats the same real tats just to describe them?

I have to disagree, FC. They were definitely both on their backs immediately after being shot according to the reports. I will study them further, but blood would have instantly pooled underneath them and not have "waited" until they were turned. Once the heart stops pumping the blood stops flowing so dramatically. It isn't like there weren't other exit wounds either.

I think there were two shooters after seeing the reports. I think they were shot simultaneously or Skyla would have been further away and shot from behind. In order for one shooter to achieve this, he would have to shoot at one girl then switch. Makes no logical sense.

I believe the only reason Skyla wasn't hit directly in the face was due to her being further away. The curious shot for me is the one angled down into the left shoulder which clipped her left top lobe of the lung, through the other organs, and down through the lower right lobe of the lung. It would appear at this angle, he had to be standing almost over her while to her left side.

[Claycat]

SS, I agree with you about the two shooters. I have always believed there were two shooters

[Just Nose'n around]

Could a larger gun have been used to do the initial shots, those with no recovered bullet, to do damage and stop them. Then a smaller gun to finish the job and leave bullets? I'm not gun smart at all, just racking around questions.

[Annie]

This is so far out I probably shouldn't even bring it up, but reading about the Z on each girl it hit me that someone wanting to imitate the Zodiac could do something like this and leave it as a calling card. I hope not because these wouldn't be the last if it is.

[tapu]

Thinking about both what FC and SS said... I could still see the one-person shooter scenario despite the fact that Skyla wasn't shot in the back or apparently running away. The initial long moment would be one of paralyzing shock, seeing Taylor hit. I see Skyla standing there long enough for a shooter, who planned to kill both, one right after the other, to shoot first Taylor, then Skyla.

[Albert18]

Thanks for the info about the clothes.

I wonder how many bullets were recovered from the dirt? I imagine the autopsy would just be concerned with what was found in or on the body.

What about the story about dna from some kind of bodily fluids? The autopsy means nothing was on either body right?

[GetSmart]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron)

Zachary David Alexander "Zac" Efron (born October 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_18), 1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987)) is an American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) actor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actor) and singer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singer). He began acting in the early 2000s, and became known to young audiences after his roles in the Disney Channel Original Movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_Channel_Original_Movies) High School Musical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_School_Musical), the WB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WB_Television_Network) series Summerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerland_%28TV_series%29), and the film version of the Broadway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_theatre) musical Hairspray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairspray_%282007_film%29).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron#cite_note-Ouzounian-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron#cite_note-1) Speaking to Newsweek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek) in June 2006, director Adam Shankman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Shankman) described Efron as "arguably the biggest teen star in America right now."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron#cite_note-msnbc-2) In 2007, right before the release of High School Musical 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_School_Musical_2), Rolling Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Stone) declared him the "poster boy for tweenyboppers" and featured him in their late August issue.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron#cite_note-3)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_School_Musical_2
Characters


Troy Bolton (Zac Efron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zac_Efron)) is the male protagonist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagonist) of the movie. He is the most popular male student at East High School, and the captain of the varsity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity)basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball) team. He is in a relationship with Gabriella Montez, who is played by Vanessa Hudgens. They met at a ski lodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_lodge) while attending a New Year's Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve) party in High School Musical, and were called on stage to sing a duet together. During the countdown to the New Year, Troy and Gabriella exchanged cellphone numbers. Gabriella later moved to Albuquerque due to her mother's career, surprising Troy when she arrived at his school. They audition and eventually win the lead roles in the high school's Winter Musical. In this newest edition, Troy, along with most of East High, takes a summer job at Lava Springs, the country club owned by Sharpay and Ryan Evans' parents

[Tom'sGirl]

Thanks for the info about the clothes.

I wonder how many bullets were recovered from the dirt? I imagine the autopsy would just be concerned with what was found in or on the body.

What about the story about dna from some kind of bodily fluids? The autopsy means nothing was on either body right?
DNA obtained would not be mentioned in an Autopsy Report.

DNA samples taken are sent to a Forensics Lab as should any clothing the girls were wearing, or items found near their bodies..........that becomes a separate report.

There's no reference on the ME's Report that anything was sent to a Lab, but I've noticed each ME's report on other cases list things this one didn't.

[Busylady]

Neither autopsy estimates time of death or am I missing that? I also think there were two shooters and they both were on there backs, I do not think either was turned over after being shot.

[Tom'sGirl]

Neither autopsy estimates time of death or am I missing that? I also think there were two shooters and they both were on there backs, I do not think either was turned over after being shot.
No, it doesn't. Only lists:
TIME
17:21
Found

[SeriouslySearching]

I wonder how many bullets were recovered from the dirt? I imagine the autopsy would just be concerned with what was found in or on the body.

Obviously, they didn't find all the bullets since they went out after the road was graded to find them. What they did recover were the shell casings, but we don't know if they matched the number of bullet wounds found.

[FlowerChild]

Oh, I knew this would happen, attacking the familes again. Judging, Judging...I won't be back to this forum, you people have no feelings, just pointing fingers.Bye, and when one of your family members are murdered, the same might come back to you.
I DID NOT attack the families. I said Taylor was the main target - that seems to be a fact, so from that I speculated that the killer was after her or knew her. Taylor was shot THREE TIMES IN THE FACE, Skyla was not. That is hardly attacking the families. I didn't say any of them killed her, I said she knew the person who did, or the killer knew her.

Taylor had at least one and maybe two permanent tattoos. - again fact, not a judgment of her family except that MOST 13 year olds do not have any permanent tattoos. That most of her family members ALSO have tattoos (some professional, some "prison made") is again A FACT. I am sure that in that family, tattoos are acceptable on a 13 year old - how else would she have one (or especially two?)

Taylor's family has some very questionable members - from petty criminals to drugs, to assault (with and without guns) to one in prison for LIFE for murder. It is hard to ignore that when a child in that family is gunned down in a remote place for no apparent reason. It is not attacking the family to state the obvious and the FACTS. One can only go on the information provided and right now, that is the autopsies.

It certainly is not a new idea in this case to speculate that Taylor's family is at the center of the motive for this murder. It happened within sight of her HOUSE on a quiet Sunday afternoon - speculation since the 1st day would lead anyone to believe that the family could have been the target - saying they were potential VICTIMS is not attacking the family. I have never said they did anything to deserve this - except maybe one of them hung out with some potentially nasty folks who were capable of doing this two two girls.

The direction of this case can ONLY go where the evidence leads.

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

Just because Taylor was shot in the face does not automatically make her the target. Skyla (IF there was an intended target) would be more likely since she was actually riddled with 8 bullets.

[SeriouslySearching]

Interestingly enough, I think it was Thursday...I was at the post office and saw a Native American male that certainly caught my eye. His hair was pulled back in banded three times and it was chopped like it had recently been cut haphazardly. It was still long to the lower shoulder blade area. He was wearing dirty clothes like he had been working and I waited outside to see what kind of vehicle he drove. He was with another white male. He climbed into the driver's seat of a 1965 Chevy pickup that had originally been painted white, but it was sanded and primered off. I looked closely to determine what the paint looked like around the mirrors etc. I did take down the tag number.

[Claycat]

Someone posted this at T today.

"The OSBI mailed out letters to have people bring in their weapons and have them tested .... They will be doing this on the 16 and 17 of august !!! at the okfuskee county sheriff's department."

Has anyone else heard this?

[FlowerChild]

If there were two shooters than why did the ear witnesses describe shots being consecutive, not simultaneous? They describe distinct shots from one gun and then the other - if it was TWO shooters they would have been shooting at the same time with each gun - one shooting Skyla, one shooting Taylor - and each girls would have been shot with only ONE gun. Plus each girl would have been shot from a similar distance - it's obvious from the autopsy that the killer was standing much further from Skyla than Taylor initially. Two shooters would make each shot on each girl made from the same distance - not one up close and one 10 - 15 feet away.

To see how fast this would have happened just think - each shot takes one second. Taylor was shot 1st - once = 2 seconds, then turn slightly right, shoot Skyla, 4 times = 8, maybe 10 seconds, then turn back and shoot Taylor again = 2 seconds. Both girls are now down on the ground 1st gun = 15 seconds. Switch guns, maybe = 5 seconds, approach and shoot Taylor twice = 10 seconds, approach Skyla, shoot 4 times = 15 seconds. second gun = 30 seconds.

Total time elapsed from 1st shot to last - one minute - with one shooter. Which is what the ear witnesses heard.

It doesn't take that long to shoot someone - especially when you are as close as the killer was to Taylor and Skyla when he pulled the 1st gun out. As fast as you can bend your finger, you can shoot.
So the killer killed 2 girls in a minute - say he went to check both girls, make sure they are dead (or mortally wounded) - another 30 seconds, maybe a minute. Wipes his hands off, throws guns in bag or trunk or wherever, takes off his bloody shirt, throws it in with the guns, gets in his car and drives away. 2 minutes tops and he's outta there. Off to dump the shirt and the guns somewhere and then home to get out of the other clothes and get rid of them, clean up. He was probably relaxing at home with a beer before sunset.

So if he's pretty cold (which we assume he was) - he is at the scene maybe 5 minutes. That's all. One shooter, no witnesses, job done, 5 minutes and he's home free. Nobody to tell - rat him out or get nervous. If it was two shooters I surmise one of them would have started cracking by now which is why most good criminals who aren't in prison don't do stuff like this in pairs, they don't TRUST other people to keep quiet. They do it alone, and I think this killer did. He had two guns, (and maybe more) because he wasn't sure of the target or if he'd need more firepower or maybe have to shoot his way out of something---since he didn't - might as well use BOTH the guns on the girls, confuse the cops a little.

I think if this was two shooters, we'd be closer to resolution by now...this seems like one guy, lives alone - who is gonna rat him out if HE doesn't tell them he did it? If nobody saw him closely right AFTER or disposing of the guns or clothing, he's gonna be hard to catch unless somebody (like the person he was targeting this toward) drops a dime on him with LE. IMO, It's gonna be the person he was doing this to HURT who will break this case, if they are brave enough to come forward with the whole story (which may even implicate them in other crimes) and tell LE what they know.

The ONLY other scenario I can see is it was the Patterson guy who lives behind and S of the Plackers and he walked to and from the scene thru the woods. Again, he was there, done and home in 10 minutes and nobody would have seen him.

My Opinion

[Claycat]

Stuff is getting weird at T! Please go to the link and check out post #10240.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p427

[fabvab]

FC didn't mention the two tattoos, BusyLady did!

whoops...that was not what I meant to say. I meant to say that I didn't feel that FlowerChild was harshly judging the family and was agreeing with her post.
In my next statement I meant to say how out of the norm it was for a child her age to have a tattoo...and here we have a 13 yr. old with two of them.
Sorry if I confused anyone!

[christine2448]

FYI chat is always open to discuss these case 'real time' with feller posters :D

To join java chat click below

http://www.serenity-irc.net/java/index.php

put nickname in

put websleuths in for the channel name


for Mirc Users:

open MIRC window

go to file

select server

go to Serenity IRC (hilight)

select random

then hit select on the right side

If you have chat saved to favorites delete them or they will go to old server

type in # websleuths for channel name then hit join

[Maggie22]

Just because Taylor was shot in the face does not automatically make her the target. Skyla (IF there was an intended target) would be more likely since she was actually riddled with 8 bullets.

Someone with the hate and rage that this shooter(s) had might very well have been targeting Taylor but to make her suffer even more, shot her best friend while she watched helplessly. Could Skyla have been hit several times, staggering back away from the shooter, before the deadly bullet hit her? Maggie

[FlowerChild]

Just because Taylor was shot in the face does not automatically make her the target. Skyla (IF there was an intended target) would be more likely since she was actually riddled with 8 bullets.
Skyla was shot 8 times because the killer wasn't close enough to shoot a turning/moving target with a sure kill shot and the body is a bigger, easier target from a distance. It took him four shots to drop Skyla - only one to drop Taylor - after which he shot Taylor in the groin and went back again to shoot her 2 times in the face AFTER she was on the ground.

Skyla's face wasn't disfigured - and it certainly COULD have been, the killer had enough time and ammo to shoot her in the face once she fell.

It's the 3 face shots (with BOTH guns) that tells me it was Taylor who was the initial target. That he was closer to Taylor (he could just as easily approached Skyla 1st) and that Skyla wasn't shot ONCE in the face (only in the neck) says Taylor was the object he was after initially. If it was just for a thrill, why not shoot BOTH girls in the face - they were already dead, would have been easy - and we KNOW he walked up to Skyla and shot her in the neck - it was probably the final shot on her. 8 shots total and not ONE on her face, and Taylor was shot only 4 times (I think the hand wound was a through and through to her face, not a 5th separate shot) and THREE of those were to HER FACE. Skyla - 8 shots, not ONE on her face, Taylor - 4 shots, THREE to her face.

Shooting one victim 3 times in the face with 2 guns and not shooting the other victim even ONCE in the face makes a definite statement to me.....

My Opinion

[Albert18]

Do you think the shot to Taylor's groin area was an attempt to defile her groin area or was it just a shot to the body that hit low? The other shots on Taylor seem very accurate.

If you assume the injury to the hand and cheek are one shot then Taylor was hit four times. Three to the head and one to the groin area. Also notice the angle of the groin shot.

We also don't know how many shots missed or if any missed.

[DLTinOKLA]

I've been reading the posts for weeks and finally I decided to post something after reading the autopsy reports. Like many of you my thoughts have been back and forth on what kind of person or persons did this horrible crime. When I first heard of the crime I immediately thought of a thrill kill because I know teenagers are capable of such. We hear it on the news all the time. Do you all remember on the very first night or early morning of the crime that the Okmulgee County Sheriff said "we have a suspect in mind" as well as saying that the killer(s) were local. I kept thinking all along it was teenagers with no conscience that did this horrible crime. But then as soon as the OSBI got involved the county sheriff retracted his statement and then we were left with "no suspect or suspects." I thought that was odd. But when no arrests were made I kind of left that idea and with many of you I went to thinking maybe it was some kind of hit or revenge killing. Honestly, after reading the autopsy reports I'm leaning back toward teenage boys possibly even some of those that had been reported shooting from the bridge. Why? The majority of the shots were from a small caliber weapon. I believe it was a .22 cartridge by the size of the entrance wounds. .5 cm isn't very large at all. Look at it on a ruler. I'm convinced it was a .22 caliber weapon and possible a rifle from the randomness of the shots. The shots on Skyla weren't accurate at all in my opinion. These types of rifles are capable of holding lots of ammo. This is the type of guns that most teenage boys shoot. That's what I shot growing up. The ammo is the cheapest you can buy and makes the best just plinking ammo. Also, because of its availability and multiple manufacturers it would be the hardest to trace back to the purchaser. Yes, there was a larger weapon that was used too and what is strange about that weapon is it isn't nearly as consistent in the size of entrance wound. It varies a lot which from .7 to 1.9 cm which just doesn't make sense to me unless it is a bullet that isn't shot through a rifled barrel or pistol meaning a shotgun slug??? Just an idea. That has me puzzled. I don't think a hitman would be using a .22 caliber weapon. They aren't really that powerful or accurate out of a cheap hangun and you don't read of them used for that purpose. Are teenagers capable of such overkill and cruelty? I thought back to a crime that happen several years ago in another small town. In Waurika Oklahoma three teenage boys took a 16 year old cheerleader across the Texas/Oklahoma border and shot her 9 times in the back of the head with a shotgun and threw her body off a bridge. One of them was crowned homecoming king just a few nights later, just like nothing happened at all. I just feel like something happened down at the bridge and the murderers drove up the road to shoot the girls before they got home. The POI could either be made up to throw the OSBI off the trail or a man that is completely innocent but is anti-social or someone with a criminal record that just happened upon the dead girls and just wanted to get as far away from there as possible. Personally, I think since the OSBI allowed the autopsies to be released after being so silent about everything else they are fixing to make a big break in the case. I hope so anyway!

[PGW]

The Z with the lines through it is a gang sign. I still believe these were sweet girls, but that's what that Z usually means.

[PGW]

The scabbing over mark is similar to a branding, but it's usually done with the eraser end of a pencil until the skin is rubbed raw and bleeds. It is done in a pattern to resemble a tat. The procedure is repeated until there is no pigmentation of skin left. I saw this type of deliberate scarring of skin in Oklahoma.

[Claycat]

DLTinOKLA, thank you for your post! Don't apologize for the length. It contained very good information. Welcome! I have long thought it was young people!

PGW, that's interesting about the Z cuttings!

[Trino]

Stuff is getting weird at T! Please go to the link and check out post #10240. http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p427

This is just Roy, using another name. He posts under several names, even answers himself. Usually, they are from Tulsa.

[Mysterylover]

I've been reading the posts for weeks and finally I decided to post something after reading the autopsy reports. Like many of you my thoughts have been back and forth on what kind of person or persons did this horrible crime. When I first heard of the crime I immediately thought of a thrill kill because I know teenagers are capable of such. We hear it on the news all the time.

Do you all remember on the very first night or early morning of the crime that the Okmulgee County Sheriff said "we have a suspect in mind" as well as saying that the killer(s) were local.

I kept thinking all along it was teenagers with no conscience that did this horrible crime. But then as soon as the OSBI got involved the county sheriff retracted his statement and then we were left with "no suspect or suspects." I thought that was odd.

But when no arrests were made I kind of left that idea and with many of you I went to thinking maybe it was some kind of hit or revenge killing. Honestly, after reading the autopsy reports I'm leaning back toward teenage boys possibly even some of those that had been reported shooting from the bridge.
Why? The majority of the shots were from a small caliber weapon. I believe it was a .22 cartridge by the size of the entrance wounds. .5 cm isn't very large at all. Look at it on a ruler. I'm convinced it was a .22 caliber weapon and possible a rifle from the randomness of the shots.

The shots on Skyla weren't accurate at all in my opinion. These types of rifles are capable of holding lots of ammo. This is the type of guns that most teenage boys shoot.
That's what I shot growing up.
The ammo is the cheapest you can buy and makes the best just plinking ammo. Also, because of its availability and multiple manufacturers it would be the hardest to trace back to the purchaser.

Yes, there was a larger weapon that was used too and what is strange about that weapon is it isn't nearly as consistent in the size of entrance wound. It varies a lot which from .7 to 1.9 cm which just doesn't make sense to me unless it is a bullet that isn't shot through a rifled barrel or pistol meaning a shotgun slug??? Just an idea. That has me puzzled.

I don't think a hitman would be using a .22 caliber weapon. They aren't really that powerful or accurate out of a cheap hangun and you don't read of them used for that purpose.

Are teenagers capable of such overkill and cruelty?
I thought back to a crime that happen several years ago in another small town. In Waurika Oklahoma three teenage boys took a 16 year old cheerleader across the Texas/Oklahoma border and shot her 9 times in the back of the head with a shotgun and threw her body off a bridge. One of them was crowned homecoming king just a few nights later, just like nothing happened at all. I just feel like something happened down at the bridge and the murderers drove up the road to shoot the girls before they got home.
The POI could either be made up to throw the OSBI off the trail or a man that is completely innocent but is anti-social or someone with a criminal record that just happened upon the dead girls and just wanted to get as far away from there as possible.
Personally, I think since the OSBI allowed the autopsies to be released after being so silent about everything else they are fixing to make a big break in the case. I hope so anyway!....

Good points..
Who saw the POI in extremely important to this investigation...IF they are anyway connected to the girls or LE or any powerful people in town, I would have to 'question' what they said..
Another question I am waiting to hear answered is, Why did it take "anyone' 3 or 4 days to say they saw the POI...
Where was the POI on what road, each time HE was seen? I suspect someone on one of those roads knows the POI...

It's just possible the Okmulgee County Sheriff is SMARTER than we think...but what shut his mouth?.....jmo

[ArizonaGiGi]

Oh, I knew this would happen, attacking the familes again. Judging, Judging...I won't be back to this forum, you people have no feelings, just pointing fingers.Bye, and when one of your family members are murdered, the same might come back to you.

ah, LS I'm guessing you needed a way to "gracefully" exit WS after being caught in a lie by Tom'sGirl. So you ARE the poster at T with the exact same avatar.


FC - I was shocked when I read the tatoo part. In a normal world (and I have a teen daughter) a 13 yr old would definitely NOT have a perm tat much less TWO OF THEM. But in Taylors normal world it may have been the norm. Not shocking in the least when you look at it that way. Sad but true.
I have been mentoring two sisters, 12 and 16 yrs of age, who have such similar families as Taylors. They have no relative, on either side of their family, that doesn't have an arrest record. Even the 16 yr old was arrested at 13! They have grandparents in a motorcycle gang, meth addiction, dui, grand theft, sex abuse, alcoholism etc. The only thing that I haven't heard of in their family is anyone being a murderer. It is so common for them to have a step parent, parent or bro or sis in jail that they don't know any different. I have been trying to teach them differently but not sure how much of a difference it makes. But I am getting an education myself, never having been around anything like this b.s. before. It is sickening to me.

Now Taylors family seemed to be much more in touch with Taylor than "my: two girl's and Taylor had such good grades and was very involved in school so I guess that is part of what is hard to understand about her having a tatoo, even with her families backgrounds.

I am going to ask the girls if they or any of their friends have perm tats at age 13. I would have been shocked if the answer was yes, before reading the autopsy reports yesterday, but after reading them, I won't be shocked if the 12 year old has a perm tat. Sad but true.

[Albert18]

I don't mean to be disgusting but I think that groin shot on Taylor could be very important. The location and the angle.

If I was going to defile the groin area of someone lying on the ground on their back I would make the shot different depending on if they were a man or woman. For a man I would be almost right on top of him, shooting down. For a woman I would be much farther back away from her feet. I shouldn't have to say more.

Now look at the angle of the groin shot on Taylor. The shot missed to the left but I think the intent was there. The bullet traveled up her body and partially exited by her shoulder blades. Could that angle even be obtained without bending down. Unbelievable.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Stuff is getting weird at T! Please go to the link and check out post #10240.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p427

I think stuff has ALWAYS been weird at "T". JMO

[Claycat]

I think stuff has ALWAYS been weird at "T". JMO

:woohoo:

You're right, but I can't seem to stay away from there anymore than I can from here. I need to take a vacation from the internet!

:spinner:

[Claycat]

This is just Roy, using another name. He posts under several names, even answers himself. Usually, they are from Tulsa.

I finally figured that out. Thanks, Trino!

[Shutterfly]

Did anyone happen to notice that Taylor's autopsy report lists her name as Taylor Dawn Paschal? An autopsy report is a pretty official, recorded document, and it would stand to reason that they'd want to get the name right, doesn't it?

[Tom'sGirl]

Did anyone happen to notice that Taylor's autopsy report lists her name as Taylor Dawn Paschal? An autopsy report is a pretty official, recorded document, and it would stand to reason that they'd want to get the name right, doesn't it?

Paschal would be her legal last name. I've never found any record that Vicky & Peter ever adopted Taylor, but rather were named her guardians.

[Tom'sGirl]

:woohoo:

You're right, but I can't seem to stay away from there anymore than I can from here. I need to take a vacation from the internet!
I read there also, however I don't post there as many do from here.

[SeriouslySearching]

If there were two shooters than why did the ear witnesses describe shots being consecutive, not simultaneous? They describe distinct shots from one gun and then the other - if it was TWO shooters they would have been shooting at the same time with each gun - one shooting Skyla, one shooting Taylor - and each girls would have been shot with only ONE gun. Plus each girl would have been shot from a similar distance - it's obvious from the autopsy that the killer was standing much further from Skyla than Taylor initially. Two shooters would make each shot on each girl made from the same distance - not one up close and one 10 - 15 feet away.

To see how fast this would have happened just think - each shot takes one second. Taylor was shot 1st - once = 2 seconds, then turn slightly right, shoot Skyla, 4 times = 8, maybe 10 seconds, then turn back and shoot Taylor again = 2 seconds. Both girls are now down on the ground 1st gun = 15 seconds. Switch guns, maybe = 5 seconds, approach and shoot Taylor twice = 10 seconds, approach Skyla, shoot 4 times = 15 seconds. second gun = 30 seconds.

Total time elapsed from 1st shot to last - one minute - with one shooter. Which is what the ear witnesses heard.

It doesn't take that long to shoot someone - especially when you are as close as the killer was to Taylor and Skyla when he pulled the 1st gun out. As fast as you can bend your finger, you can shoot.
So the killer killed 2 girls in a minute - say he went to check both girls, make sure they are dead (or mortally wounded) - another 30 seconds, maybe a minute. Wipes his hands off, throws guns in bag or trunk or wherever, takes off his bloody shirt, throws it in with the guns, gets in his car and drives away. 2 minutes tops and he's outta there. Off to dump the shirt and the guns somewhere and then home to get out of the other clothes and get rid of them, clean up. He was probably relaxing at home with a beer before sunset.

So if he's pretty cold (which we assume he was) - he is at the scene maybe 5 minutes. That's all. One shooter, no witnesses, job done, 5 minutes and he's home free. Nobody to tell - rat him out or get nervous. If it was two shooters I surmise one of them would have started cracking by now which is why most good criminals who aren't in prison don't do stuff like this in pairs, they don't TRUST other people to keep quiet. They do it alone, and I think this killer did. He had two guns, (and maybe more) because he wasn't sure of the target or if he'd need more firepower or maybe have to shoot his way out of something---since he didn't - might as well use BOTH the guns on the girls, confuse the cops a little.

My OpinionShow me where it goes into all that detail about what the "ear witness" heard! Wow! I had no idea she could claim the exact shots, in the exact time span, and know exactly how long it took.

Your theory isn't working for me. No one says that because there were two shooting at near the same time that the shots would overlap. Both shooters shot both girls and doesn't mean it was one person either. Nothing you have said here tells me specifically that it proves one shooter. Even that one would turn on the other one! Makes no sense to me. Why would he? They both shot a little girl and they both are in as much trouble. It is not at all uncommon that they wouldn't talk. Usually the ones who DO talk are not the shooters!!

[SeriouslySearching]

Someone with the hate and rage that this shooter(s) had might very well have been targeting Taylor but to make her suffer even more, shot her best friend while she watched helplessly. Could Skyla have been hit several times, staggering back away from the shooter, before the deadly bullet hit her? MaggieIf they wanted Taylor to watch...they wouldn't have shot her in the face 3 times. Skyla was hit 8 times, but I would have to assume out of those only a couple would have been while she was still standing. They unloaded a gun into her...JUST LIKE HER GRANDMOTHER SAID THEY DID!

[PGW]

Looks like LifeSaver and another poster left at same time.

[QUOTE=ArizonaGiGi;2478043]ah, LS I'm guessing you needed a way to "gracefully" exit WS after being caught in a lie by Tom'sGirl. So you ARE the poster at T with the exact same avatar.

[Albert18]

Good points..
Who saw the POI in extremely important to this investigation...IF they are anyway connected to the girls or LE or any powerful people in town, I would have to 'question' what they said..
Another question I am waiting to hear answered is, Why did it take "anyone' 3 or 4 days to say they saw the POI...
Where was the POI on what road, each time HE was seen? I suspect someone on one of those roads knows the POI...

It's just possible the Okmulgee County Sheriff is SMARTER than we think...but what shut his mouth?.....jmo

If I was a local I would be very concerned the people involved have connections or money. If these were young punks who did this I think it is unbelievable they haven't been arrested yet. Completely unbelievable. So it wasn't young punks or something stinks.

[Okie ties]

I don't mean to be disgusting but I think that groin shot on Taylor could be very important. The location and the angle.

If I was going to defile the groin area of someone lying on the ground on their back I would make the shot different depending on if they were a man or woman. For a man I would be almost right on top of him, shooting down. For a woman I would be much farther back away from her feet. I shouldn't have to say more.

Now look at the angle of the groin shot on Taylor. The shot missed to the left but I think the intent was there. The bullet traveled up her body and partially exited by her shoulder blades. Could that angle even be obtained without bending down. Unbelievable.

Albert, I too found this very interesting. The groin shot bothered me the most out of all the shots on the girls bodies. My initial reaction was that this shot was intended to say something. An angry male shooter who knew Taylor and had tried or wanted to do sexual things with and she said no?? or possibly a female shooter who was saying "don't mess with my guy?" Stupid ideas probably... but I can't shake the feeling that the shots to the face and the shots to the groin are making a loud statement.

In other news concerning topix, the janey reference as the person riding wit the poi is interesting. Found her xanga site. Only 1 friend and that friend is all over youtube with very explicit sexual videos, most with older, grandmother type women. Extremely gross!

[Claycat]

Sheza told me it was okay if I shared this information. She said there is a rumor going around, in the Weleetka area, that a man named Cousins bought a white pickup from a NA man from Texas. It was supposedly sold to him, in Dustin, about 2 months ago. She restated that this was a rumor.

FlowerChild, maybe your source will have heard about this.

[FlowerChild]

Paschal would be her legal last name. I've never found any record that Vicky & Peter ever adopted Taylor, but rather were named her guardians.
In her Obit and at school she was known as Paschal-Placker. That is what TAYLOR wanted to be called, so she was Paschal-Placker.

Show me where it goes into all that detail about what the "ear witness" heard! Wow! I had no idea she could claim the exact shots, in the exact time span, and know exactly how long it took.

Your theory isn't working for me. No one says that because there were two shooting at near the same time that the shots would overlap. Both shooters shot both girls and doesn't mean it was one person either. Nothing you have said here tells me specifically that it proves one shooter. Even that one would turn on the other one! Makes no sense to me. Why would he? They both shot a little girl and they both are in as much trouble. It is not at all uncommon that they wouldn't talk. Usually the ones who DO talk are not the shooters!!

I will go looking for the article where the earwitness is quoted - she imitates the pattern of the shots and says it was two guns. It was all at once, literally it was less than a minute- with a short break between the two sets of shots. These people were less than a mile away and outside, the woman and her son I believe - and the father is retired LE - I am sure they are familiar with guns and the sound of gunshots. From what we know this was a very limited window of time 5:05 to 5:20 - maybe 10 or 15 minutes at THE MOST. The killer(s) weren't lollygagging around after they shot down two kids and got blood on themselves either. By the time the Plackers got home at 5:20, they were gone.

We will have to agree to disagree - I believe it was one shooter, an adult and targeted at Taylor. Doesn't mean the shooter wasn't young, but I don't believe it was a "kid" (much less TWO kids who can keep this all so quiet for over 2 months and came home with blood on their clothes, shoes etc). I just think this killer acted alone and for whatever reason he had some serious hate on for Taylor or someone in her family. If it was 2 "kids" (under 18) then OSBI had better do some serious looking at other crimes because these are some seriously disturbed kids with access to multiple firearms and I would be wondering who ELSE they hated that much? They STOOD OVER the bodies and shot them point blank, they shot a child in the FACE 3 times - that's some seriously damaged sick kids, IMO. OSBI seems to believe the killer(s) are in the area - thus the rumored "order" to bring in registered guns to be tested by OSBI - they must have a good (and unique) bullet to compare if they are doing this and it has a secondary effect of smoking out anybody who DOESN'T bring in his guns to LE AND his family. If it WAS kids using Daddy's guns - somebody is gonna have to tell Daddy - if he hasn't already...panic time!

My Opinion

[Tom'sGirl]

In her Obit and at school she was known as Paschal-Placker. That is what TAYLOR wanted to be called, so she was Paschal-Placker.
LOL, I'm aware of that!

However, legally her name would have to be changed for legal documents like her SS#. Anyone can submit what they want in an Obit, and in many cases if submitted by different family members information will vary.

[FlowerChild]

LOL, I'm aware of that!

However, legally her name would have to be changed for legal documents like her SS#. Anyone can submit what they want in an Obit, and in many cases if submitted by different family members information will vary.
We already knew it was one of the 4 kids who was Taylor's parent - obviously it was one of the two Paschals - likely Jennifer - since she carried the Paschal name and so did Taylor. Jennifer is not closely linked to the family - she doesn't show up in ANY of the family records online so likely she is Taylor's bio-mother who gave her up at birth. - Taylor was 13, that means Jennifer would have been 18-20 when Taylor was born. For whatever reason Jennifer wasn't with the father and either was unable to care for Taylor or maybe just wanted her parents to raise Taylor and surrendered full permanent legal custody to them. The family obviously doesn't want to discuss Taylor's bio Mom/Dad - perhaps the situation was a bad one?

Regardless they family has ALWAYS referred to Taylor as Paschal-Placker - even if her legal name was Paschal.

My Opinion

[Tom'sGirl]

Regardless they family has ALWAYS referred to Taylor as Paschal-Placker - even if her legal name was Paschal.
And that was the point when I answered the question as to why the ME's Report read Paschal and not Placker!

[Tom'sGirl]

Sheza told me it was okay if I shared this information. She said there is a rumor going around, in the Weleetka area, that a man named Cousins bought a white pickup from a NA man from Texas. It was supposedly sold to him, in Dustin, about 2 months ago. She restated that this was a rumor.
Why didn't Sheza post it here herself?

[Albert18]

Skyla was a stick wasn't she. I hope she carried dirt in her pockets to keep from being blown away by the wind.

[SeriouslySearching]

I will go looking for the article where the earwitness is quoted - she imitates the pattern of the shots and says it was two guns. It was all at once, literally it was less than a minute- with a short break between the two sets of shots. These people were less than a mile away and outside, the woman and her son I believe - and the father is retired LE - I am sure they are familiar with guns and the sound of gunshots. From what we know this was a very limited window of time 5:05 to 5:20 - maybe 10 or 15 minutes at THE MOST. The killer(s) weren't lollygagging around after they shot down two kids and got blood on themselves either. By the time the Plackers got home at 5:20, they were gone.

We will have to agree to disagree - I believe it was one shooter, an adult and targeted at Taylor. Doesn't mean the shooter wasn't young, but I don't believe it was a "kid" (much less TWO kids who can keep this all so quiet for over 2 months and came home with blood on their clothes, shoes etc). I just think this killer acted alone and for whatever reason he had some serious hate on for Taylor or someone in her family. If it was 2 "kids" (under 18) then OSBI had better do some serious looking at other crimes because these are some seriously disturbed kids with access to multiple firearms and I would be wondering who ELSE they hated that much? They STOOD OVER the bodies and shot them point blank, they shot a child in the FACE 3 times - that's some seriously damaged sick kids, IMO. OSBI seems to believe the killer(s) are in the area - thus the rumored "order" to bring in registered guns to be tested by OSBI - they must have a good (and unique) bullet to compare if they are doing this and it has a secondary effect of smoking out anybody who DOESN'T bring in his guns to LE AND his family. If it WAS kids using Daddy's guns - somebody is gonna have to tell Daddy - if he hasn't already...panic time!

My OpinionYou have not heard me say one single time I thought it was kids because I certainly don't! I don't know where you got that. I believe it was two male adults. I don't think they were "targeting" (as in ahead of time) either girl. I believe it was random to a point. I firmly believe they have killed before and were cold, calculating, and will not turn on one another at any time.

If it was literally "all at once" it would go towards two shooters.

[SeriouslySearching]

Sheza told me it was okay if I shared this information. She said there is a rumor going around, in the Weleetka area, that a man named Cousins bought a white pickup from a NA man from Texas. It was supposedly sold to him, in Dustin, about 2 months ago. She restated that this was a rumor.

FlowerChild, maybe your source will have heard about this.What year was that pickup?

Is this the same source that claimed the grandmother lied about seeing the wounds and then we find out through the autopsy that she was pretty accurate so MUST have seen them? :rolleyes:

[Claycat]

Why didn't Sheza post it here herself?

I believe she gets tired of being set upon every time she posts something that she has heard. I sent her a PM here and asked her about it when I saw it at T. She said that it was a rumor she had heard and told me I could post the info if I wanted to.

[FlowerChild]

What year was that pickup?

Is this the same source that claimed the grandmother lied about seeing the wounds and then we find out through the autopsy that she was pretty accurate so MUST have seen them? :rolleyes:

She probably SAW from a distance, and was told by GPa - but according to 1st responders (she arrived after they did) she wasn't allowed to touch or approach Skyla's body. She was outside the tape. She also would have seen Skyla's injuries at the funeral home (if she wanted to).

My Opinion

[SeriouslySearching]

That isn't the way she described it happening. I think she was there before they were and before the tape went up. But it doesn't explain your "source" calling her a bold faced liar. I think the autopsy says that is not true.

[frogjustfrog]

I read there also, however I don't post there as many do from here.

I havent much at all since I joined here. But I just gave my final posting.Thanks to all of you who had faith in me.

back to topic. The brutality of this is much more than I even imagined in the first place! I cant even think of words to say at this point. Please excuse me

[Ruflossn]

I havent much at all since I joined here. But I just gave my final posting.Thanks to all of you who had faith in me.

back to topic. The brutality of this is much more than I even imagined in the first place! I cant even think of words to say at this point. Please excuse me

I agree w/ you Frog. After reading the autopsies results, it brought everything in sharper focus. I had a hard time getting past all the personal attention to details. ie: the writings on their stomachs, blue nail polish. It made the girls so much more child like to me. The description of the wounds was unbelievable. So many..................... So sad.......................

[Claycat]

I agree. It was so sad!

I think about Taylor putting her hand up to block her face, because it hurt so bad. I think about Skyla's horror and her trying to turn and run.

It breaks my heart!

:cry:

[sheza]

That isn't the way she described it happening. I think she was there before they were and before the tape went up. But it doesn't explain your "source" calling her a bold faced liar. I think the autopsy says that is not true.

When did I call Claudia a liar?

May I ask you SS what exactly did Claudia "see" or was she "told by the LE"?

(wonder why locals won't post)

[Albert18]

The brutality really does hit home. That one shot to Skyla's arm broke her arm. I imagine this is why they released these reports.

I think the most important thing the autopsies tell us are the injuries to Taylor.

I wish I had more time and my geometry skills were better but that groin shot doesn't sound random. Unless Taylor was laying with her hips significantly higher than her shoulders, I can't see how a standing male makes that shot. He would have to be standing too far away for that area. Looks to me like that required him to drop down to make that particular shot. In a frenzied attack like this, why would he take the time to do that unless it was very important to him?

[frogjustfrog]

Looks like LifeSaver and another poster left at same time.

[quote=ArizonaGiGi;2478043]ah, LS I'm guessing you needed a way to "gracefully" exit WS after being caught in a lie by Tom'sGirl. So you ARE the poster at T with the exact same avatar.
I did notice that. I left. and I dont care who knows it. Maybe it will at least clear that part up.

[frogjustfrog]

In her Obit and at school she was known as Paschal-Placker. That is what TAYLOR wanted to be called, so she was Paschal-Placker.



I will go looking for the article where the earwitness is quoted - she imitates the pattern of the shots and says it was two guns. It was all at once, literally it was less than a minute- with a short break between the two sets of shots. These people were less than a mile away and outside, the woman and her son I believe - and the father is retired LE - I am sure they are familiar with guns and