Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #18

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around Nancy has her own forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.


Newbies.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/websleuths.jpg

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872).


BE NICE TO EACHOTHER, AGREE TO DISAGREE. WE SHOULD WELCOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT THEORY ON THE CASE...BETTER FOR DISCUSSIONS, :doh: MIGHT AS WELL JUST TALK TO MYSELF IF I ONLY WANT TO HEAR MY OWN THEORY.:waitasec:

[carolinalady]

Originally posted by Bob&Bob
What did you do with the other red plate?

Are you getting on me because I put PLATES instead of PLATE? I only have 1 red plate on my car. My old blue one is now in the hands of the DMV. I'm not sure what they did with it after they threw it in the big pile behind the desk.

[Bob&Bob]

Are you getting on me because I put PLATES instead of PLATE? I only have 1 red plate on my car. My old blue one is now in the hands of the DMV. I'm not sure what they did with it after they threw it in the big pile behind the desk.

I'm not "getting on" you. You said in post #334 on
thread 17 that you received "plates" in the mail.
Did you receive more than one?

[The Saint]

bumped from last thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint
the medical examiner testified at one of the custody hearings. it seems likely that a preliminary report ready.

according to just the fax , in NC, it is the lead investigator who presents the case to the Grand Jury. The DA is not in the room.
____________
jess responded:

I don't remember the ME having to testify at any hearing. I believe he was served with a subpoena to show u p, ( and there was a rumour that he was at the courthouse, or on the way to the courthouse)but as no proceedings took place in the courtroom, the two sides of the family coming to an agreement about the temporary custody without benefit of a judge, he was not needed.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
_____________________________________________
The Saint says:

jess, i clarified my post later. i'm almost sure i read an online news report that said the ME had testified. when i went back to look, i couldn't find it.

it is possible that i misread the article or the article was not correct.
it could be like you said that the ME was subpoenaed to appear but ended up not having to speak.

i just don't know.

eta: i may be that the article said that the ME was called to testify and i read as that he testified.

[Bob&Bob]

Also, in regard to the previous thread, I posted a post that
basically said that it seems to me that d99gr81 doesn't have
really any worse spelling than anyone else here. Having said that, I pointed out that I'm probably not a very good yardstick
because I didn't think anthrax man's poetry that went to the
tune of "I'm a little teapot" was all that bad. (see below)

I’m a little dream-self, short and stout.
I’m the other half of Bruce — when he lets me out.
When I get all steamed up, I don’t pout.
I push Bruce aside, then I’m free to run about!

I posted it, but it didn't post so I'm reposting.

They didn't put an example of his poem that goes to the
tune of Hickory Dickory Dock.

It's on The New York Times website titled "In anthrax scientist's email, hints of delusion." Author Eric Lipton.

[jumpstreet]

bumped from last thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint
the medical examiner testified at one of the custody hearings. it seems likely that a preliminary report ready.

according to just the fax , in NC, it is the lead investigator who presents the case to the Grand Jury. The DA is not in the room.
____________
jess responded:

I don't remember the ME having to testify at any hearing. I believe he was served with a subpoena to show u p, ( and there was a rumour that he was at the courthouse, or on the way to the courthouse)but as no proceedings took place in the courtroom, the two sides of the family coming to an agreement about the temporary custody without benefit of a judge, he was not needed.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
_____________________________________________
The Saint says:

jess, i clarified my post later. i'm almost sure i read an online news report that said the ME had testified. when i went back to look, i couldn't find it.

it is possible that i misread the article or the article was not correct.
it could be like you said that the ME was subpoenaed to appear but ended up not having to speak.

i just don't know.

Yeah, I think it got clarified yesterday that the ME was subpoenaed by BC's side for the hearing on July 24th. Since there was no official hearing, there was no testimony. Even if there had been a hearing, ME would have likely said it's too early to confirm anything. The suspicion is that the subpoena may have been posturing on the part of BC's attorneys anyway (knowing the ME wouldn't be able to reveal anything yet, it was an attempt to make it seem like they had nothing to hide, wanted to get to the truth, etc). Who knows.

[d99gr81]

My only point is that I don't believe everything I read.

I also don't believe that he received $285k as a bonus in 2007 when their finances were spelled out the way they were in the separation agreement. As I said before - to have that kind of coin just "disappear" would mean a drug or gambling habit -and with all the trash thrown out - THAT would have surely appeared.

Cisco also is not a calendar year company - their 2008 just ended.

I can't see that kind of bonus for someone NOT in sales - i.e. commissionable position. Brad was not the type of person to be in sales. Technical high end support for sales and help in landing the account, sure, but someone that gets that kind of bonus wouldn't have a base that high.

Similarly, there would not be money troubles with that kind of $$$ earned the year prior. Their debts are not that huge - mortgage not that large, only one car payment, etc. But - I can see where the lifestyle would be hard to support easily on $160K.

I never said that Cisco didn't have contracts - that would be a doofus statement.

There are lots of parts to Cisco - but based on the several folks I know pretty well, I think that compensation is, well, reserved for a VP level. Maybe he got that in stock options that vest over 5 years - I might could see that.

Perhaps you are right. Just nothing in my experience would have that make sense, nor would the current economic condition of the Coopers - even at a 40% tax rate, there would have been $267K in CASHOLA in CY 2007. WHERE DID IT GO???????? Did NC have over 1000 pairs of the jeans?

I think that it's quite possible that rumors grow and spawn things that get taken as fact - esp when it comes to things like peoples salary and bonuses. BC may have also been the type of person to exaggerate his salary / standing in order to look good in front of his peers.

First bold you are completely wrong. He IS on that sales account. And their sales bonuses for that account ARE quarterly.

Second bold...WHO SAID IT WENT ANYWHERE? I know rich people who complain about small debts. And frankly he earned the money so doesn't matter if he was not happy about what she was spending HE HAS THAT right. I could be wrong on the year but Cisco I believe back in 99 gave all employees a 100% bonus for Christmas. Cisco DOES take care of there own...that have many bonuses for many different reasons....

You know what... I don't care anymore... don't believe me... really its not important... most here think he did it and its just another reason he is guilty anyway.

AS for the Saint.... misspell was being changed to miss spell due to MY web interface auto spell checker... so ..|.. Nothing like having NOTHING TO say about a real point to try and change the subject with petty spelling/typo's. We all know how you feel... I had misspell as miss spell I MUST BE A MURDERER!

[carolinalady]

bumped from last thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint
the medical examiner testified at one of the custody hearings. it seems likely that a preliminary report ready.

according to just the fax , in NC, it is the lead investigator who presents the case to the Grand Jury. The DA is not in the room.
____________
jess responded:

I don't remember the ME having to testify at any hearing. I believe he was served with a subpoena to show u p, ( and there was a rumour that he was at the courthouse, or on the way to the courthouse)but as no proceedings took place in the courtroom, the two sides of the family coming to an agreement about the temporary custody without benefit of a judge, he was not needed.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
_____________________________________________
The Saint says:

jess, i clarified my post later. i'm almost sure i read an online news report that said the ME had testified. when i went back to look, i couldn't find it.

it is possible that i misread the article or the article was not correct.
it could be like you said that the ME was subpoenaed to appear but ended up not having to speak.

i just don't know.

I looked at the Ex Parte Custody documents not to long ago and it indicates that LE and the plantiffs' testified. I don't see any mention in the document of the ME testifying.

And, Jess is correct, the ME received a subpoena from BC's attorney and then the ME filed a motion to quash.

[carolinalady]

I'm not "getting on" you. You said in post #334 on
thread 17 that you received "plates" in the mail.
Did you receive more than one?

No, I only received one. I went back to look at my next post on the same subject (#347). I see some typos in there too.

To clarify, I only have 1 plate per car. To date, though we are a two car family, only one of those plates is the newer red one.

[CARYISHOME]

Are you getting on me because I put PLATES instead of PLATE? I only have 1 red plate on my car. My old blue one is now in the hands of the DMV. I'm not sure what they did with it after they threw it in the big pile behind the desk.


Lol

Bob...you're growning on me...

"the big pile behind the desk" Cracking me up!! I remember my plate was thrown on that pile with a definate show of disgust by the man behind the desk.:D

I know what you're saying though. I only have one plate per car also. Not sure how they would have gotten two.

[carolinalady]

Lol

Bob...you're growning on me...

"the big pile behind the desk" Cracking me up!! I remember my plate was thrown on that pile with a definate show of disgust by the man behind the desk.:D

I know what you're saying though. I only have one plate per car also. Not sure how they would have gotten two.

Caryishome, no it was totally my typo. I wasn't saying they got two. It was my fingers getting carried away in the typing about my personal circumstances and did not mean to make plate plural.

[d99gr81]

Going home ... have a nice weekend everyone.

[CARYISHOME]

Caryishome, no it was totally my typo. I wasn't saying they got two. It was my fingers getting carried away in the typing about my personal circumstances and did not mean to make plate plural.

Got it. No problem - I think we were posting at about the same time.

[momto3kids]

Isn't it ironic we are talking about license plates when it is the prisoners at central prison who make them.
It's weird to think who made yours the next time you put it on??

[The Saint]

(snipped)
You know what... I don't care anymore... don't believe me... really its not important... most here think he did it and its just another reason he is guilty anyway.

AS for the Saint.... misspell was being changed to miss spell due to MY web interface auto spell checker... so ..|.. Nothing like having NOTHING TO say about a real point to try and change the subject with petty spelling/typo's. We all know how you feel... I had misspell as miss spell I MUST BE A MURDERER!


WS has always been a place where people could discuss cases calmly.
stop yelling in capitals.

the tone on this thread is very unpleasant.

i was making a point in my post. it was not about a typo.

[stillblv]

Can we all just take a big breath and step away from the keyboard?

The reason I keep coming back to this forum is because everyone is usually very respectful about other people's opinions and are not mean spirited or petty!

It's Friday, for gosh sakes! TGIF!!!

[The Saint]

i don't know about you guys, but it seems to be that this thread gets derailed by a few powderkegs and at least one troll.

there are people who are interested in this case and interested in hearing the local information.

something seems to have happened on this thread and the caylee thread that makes it a very different experience for those of us who are familiar with websleuths.

this isn't Survivor, people are free to come and go. people have different schedules, work and home demands and live in different time zones. people cannot be expected to read every post on these threads.

many don't want to read because it seems that things are focused on posters and not the case and because of the nastiness.

if a local poster volunteers to do something that informs us, don't criticize them.

let's all try not to take the bait. if a poster annoys you, just scroll by .

some of you may have already scrolled past this post. ;)

[fran]

OK everyone, calm down. Don't everyone get upset because others have opposite opinions and state it as such. Can't we just agree to disagree? Can't we all, just get along?:angel:

I honestly don't mind someone having the opposite opinion or on the fence as far as IF guilty or INNOCENT. That's why we're here, isn't it.? To find out what others are saying, the who, why, when, where?

I know that any of us behind these screens can say anything we want and it might not be true. But, seriously, if someone has a 'reason' they believe it true, whether they checked visually themself or had a connection that told them. Well,........it might be the wrong way, but I tend to believe them. That's just me.

We have posters here who've given us a 'scoop' here and there and told us 'why.' I will believe them until it's PROVEN it's not true. I don't think anyone here has an agenda. Oh, yeah, I think he's guilty, but I'm not trying to change your mind. If we've gone back and forth on a particular point and we are both still on opposite ends, we can just agree to disagree. We can then leave it at that, until one of our points is proved or disproved, and go from there.

Agree?

Friends?

Now {group hug} and let's discuss the case of Who Murdered Nancy Cooper?

:)
fran

[momto3kids]

OK everyone, calm down. Don't everyone get upset because others have opposite opinions and state it as such. Can't we just agree to disagree? Can't we all, just get along?:angel:

I honestly don't mind someone having the opposite opinion or on the fence as far as IF guilty or INNOCENT. That's why we're here, isn't it.? To find out what others are saying, the who, why, when, where?

I know that any of us behind these screens can say anything we want and it might not be true. But, seriously, if someone has a 'reason' they believe it true, whether they checked visually themself or had a connection that told them. Well,........it might be the wrong way, but I tend to believe them. That's just me.

We have posters here who've given us a 'scoop' here and there and told us 'why.' I will believe them until it's PROVEN it's not true. I don't think anyone here has an agenda. Oh, yeah, I think he's guilty, but I'm not trying to change your mind. If we've gone back and forth on a particular point and we are both still on opposite ends, we can just agree to disagree. We can then leave it at that, until one of our points is proved or disproved, and go from there.

Agree?

Friends?

Now {group hug} and let's discuss the case of Who Murdered Nancy Cooper?

:)
fran

Fran...many of us needed a group hug.

I woke up to someone trying to beat me this morning. You would think it was BC himself on the attack.:D

Still the question today, WHO killed NC?

[fran]

Fran...many of us needed a group hug.

I woke up to someone trying to beat me this morning. You would think it was BC himself on the attack.:D

Still the question today, WHO killed NC?

:silenced:

k?

Everyone {happy}?

;)

fran

[Onescout]

:silenced:

k?

Everyone {happy}?

;)

fran

I so happy...

[Star12]

:truce::HBwhiteflag::grouphug::silenced:

k?

Everyone {happy}?

;)

fran

[Onescout]

I still am wondering what happened to all the money BC was supposed to get through bonuses....did he squirrel it away in anticipation of a divorce? Did he spend it on porn like Chrisite Brinkley's ex (3k a month on internet porn)...show me the money!

[fran]

I so happy...

me too!

:angel:Wonder if Brad is happy? :loser:

I also wonder when Brad is going to offer a reward for information leading to the REAL KILLER? He did get a VERY LARGE bonus. ;)

Hmmmm...........often times Crime Stoppers assists with rewards also. Wonder if there's a reason they're not stepping up to the plate?:silenced:

fran

[fran]

:truce::HBwhiteflag::grouphug:

:blowkiss:

Gosh, can you tell I have five kids?

:crazy:

fran

[fran]

I still am wondering what happened to all the money BC was supposed to get through bonuses....did he squirrel it away in anticipation of a divorce? Did he spend it on porn like Chrisite Brinkley's ex (3k a month on internet porn)...show me the money!

It might be in stock options and that's what he was most likely going to retain as his own personal property. Can't recall exactly, but there was something he was getting and Nancy was getting the 401K. Oh, she was getting the 401K AFTER the loan on it was paid off from the home proceeds, IIRC.

JMHO
fran

[Zoe]

:truce::HBwhiteflag::grouphug:

love it! :p

[fran]

LOL, I guess Star12 is going for the BEST day's post again!

:D

fran

[CARYISHOME]

It might be in stock options and that's what he was most likely going to retain as his own personal property. Can't recall exactly, but there was something he was getting and Nancy was getting the 401K. Oh, she was getting the 401K AFTER the loan on it was paid off from the home proceeds, IIRC.

JMHO
fran

It's been a long time since I was looking into 401ks as they relate to divorces. Seems like there is something in the law about how much of a 401k a spouse can get based on how long they have been married. I think I remember a 10-year marriage is considered long-term so the spouse is eligible for 1/2 of the 401k after that time.

I really don't remember that much about it - does anyone know if I am close?? How long were Brad and Nancy married?

[Star12]

It's been a long time since I was looking into 401ks as they relate to divorces. Seems like there is something in the law about how much of a 401k a spouse can get based on how long they have been married. I think I remember a 10-year marriage is considered long-term so the spouse is eligible for 1/2 of the 401k after that time.

I really don't remember that much about it - does anyone know if I am close?? How long were Brad and Nancy married?

Eight years

[Deduction]

i don't know about you guys, but it seems to be that this thread gets derailed by a few powderkegs and at least one troll.

there are people who are interested in this case and interested in hearing the local information.

something seems to have happened on this thread and the caylee thread that makes it a very different experience for those of us who are familiar with websleuths.

this isn't Survivor, people are free to come and go. people have different schedules, work and home demands and live in different time zones. people cannot be expected to read every post on these threads.

many don't want to read because it seems that things are focused on posters and not the case and because of the nastiness.

if a local poster volunteers to do something that informs us, don't criticize them.

let's all try not to take the bait. if a poster annoys you, just scroll by .

some of you may have already scrolled past this post. ;)
I have been reading here from the beginning. It appears to me anytime a post goes up that indicates Brad could possibly be innocent or that someone other than Brad could be guilty that poster is ridiculed, bullied, ganged up on, and eventually called a powderkeg etc.

Although this board says oh, we want all opinions, all opinions are welcome, they really arn't. Go back to Thread #1 before Nancy's body was even found, before we even knew for sure she was dead. This board, was the Brad did it board, and it has tried very hard to discourage anyone from posting, unless they wanted to jump on that lynch mob.

[Onescout]

It might be in stock options and that's what he was most likely going to retain as his own personal property. Can't recall exactly, but there was something he was getting and Nancy was getting the 401K. Oh, she was getting the 401K AFTER the loan on it was paid off from the home proceeds, IIRC.

JMHO
fran

My bet is it's in stock options...since the 401k would be picked over after debt reconciliation...
SO this bumps up the motive even more, there was a bit of money hanging in the balance.

[The Saint]

It's been a long time since I was looking into 401ks as they relate to divorces. Seems like there is something in the law about how much of a 401k a spouse can get based on how long they have been married. I think I remember a 10-year marriage is considered long-term so the spouse is eligible for 1/2 of the 401k after that time.

I really don't remember that much about it - does anyone know if I am close?? How long were Brad and Nancy married?
i thought they had been married 8 yrs.

[Star12]

Let's start clean here, and not stir the pot up.

It is OKAY to speculate. We ALL have our own interpretations and opinions.

There is a young woman here in our community who is dead, apparently by the hand of another person. There are two little girls who will never kiss their
Mommy goodnight, never hug her neck, never read make a Mother's Day card for her, never ponder what to give her for Christmas or her birthday.

A community force is gone forever, and friends are grieving. Races won't be run.

Some think her husband did it, some have other opinions. That's OKAY.

But we can offer our opinions in a helpful way, without backbiting. We are helpful to NO ONE by being petty.

We need to calm down, step back, and think a second before we hit that post button.

All opinions are welcome.

:truce:

[Jess]

I have been reading here from the beginning. It appears to me anytime a post goes up that indicates Brad could possibly be innocent or that someone other than Brad could be guilty that poster is ridiculed, bullied, ganged up on, and eventually called a powderkeg etc.

Although this board says oh, we want all opinions, all opinions are welcome, they really arn't. Go back to Thread #1 before Nancy's body was even found, before we even knew for sure she was dead. This board, was the Brad did it board, and it has tried very hard to discourage anyone from posting, unless they wanted to jump on that lynch mob.

All of us get a 'gut' feeling whether from personal experience, past experience with other similar cases in the news, whatever. Those of us that have been around for quite a while ( even though we may not be prolific posters, are prolific readers.)When I read a good post from someone with the opposite opinion, it makes me think. There have been cases where I have gone from one side to the other for quite a while until I was able to find the "hook" that solidified my opinion.

The posts that swayed me were ones that were logical and plausible, not vitriolic diatribes that dissed other posters or their opinions. I value the posters who have background knowledge of the area or even of some of the "people' I have thoroughly enjoyed those with a law background because they can clarify rulings and bring us back from the absurd.

Writing all this, I have found I still have stuck with my original thought, but with much more confidence and knowledge.

Even though the circumstances that cause us to come to message boards are horrendous, it is fun to stretch our minds and try to figure out things.

[Jess]

Well I killed the thread, didn't I ? LOL:angel:

[The Saint]

my reference to people being powderkegs has nothing to do with whether they believe brad did or did not
kill nancy

[SleuthSayer]

Thank you. Agree 100%.

Cisco pays bonuses as part of it's compensation package. The amounts vary, but from what I know - it's 1/2 of the "base" amount at their mid year (around February) and then the remainder in September. The remainder is determined by employee performance, as well as company performance metrics.

The base amount varies by your 'level'.

Stock options are also part of their compensation package.


This is not far off the mark. Cisco has multiple bonus plans, but what you have described is pretty close for someone in a position such as Brad's.


Now - here's a theory for you:
Maybe he killed her because he knew his year end bonus WAS going to be huge - and payable in September? Not $285K huge, but whatever.


Well, it seems unwise for anyone to be doing anything (particularly murder) in anticipation of a "huge" bonus this year. ;-)

[FlowerChild]

I also find that the BC did it gets a bit overwhelming at times. It's back to that "making evidence fit your scenario" instead of letting the evidence build the TRUE story.

When we are working blind (without even a COD or an autopsy or copies of the SW's) it's very easy to allow speculation, rumors and half-truths to become the focus - and because right now those things are all we have they are getting far more attention and focus than they should.

It's easy to get your underthings in a twist when you are frustrated by the seeming lack of progress toward a resolution - but that IS where we are right now and we should try to remain civil to EVERYONE here - even if they disagree. It is possible to disagree with someone (RIGHT FRAN?:D) and be FRIENDS with them. It's funny how it works that the person you disagree with on one case, is your closest ally on another. It's all really just semantics and opinion - until we have evidence and facts. And it's OK that people "think different" - it's stimulating and even inspiring to debate and it almost always results in building a healthier and more effective sleuthing community. And we are a community - we ALL just want a KILLER off the streets - WHOEVER that killer turns out to be.

There is room on these threads for EVERYONE - no matter what they believe about BC OR NC. So long as we remain polite, respectful and focus on presenting OUR OWN ideas in a calm, logical and civil manner rather than attacking someone else's ideas we can all post and learn and share and .... OH, and even ENJOY it.

If you don't agree just say that you don't agree - and then state WHY you don't. Just saying you disagree and attacking the other poster(s) doesn't move the conversation forward a centimeter. Make your case and allow other people to consider why your opinion differs from others based on your understanding of the case and yes, even your own personal experiences or special knowledge, if applicable.

Geeze ladies and gents, we are all adults here and it's Friday - a day to start chilling out or preparing for a weekend...no need for stress or anxiety or anger here. Don't we get enough of that Mon-Fri??? Lets enjoy our cyber-friends and keep a positive thought that THIS will be the weekend they find Caylee alive, that they find the Oklahoma Girl's Killer, that Nancy's Killer confesses....that lost children are found and lost adults come home again.

My Opinion

[Deduction]

my reference to people being powderkegs has nothing to do with whether they believe brad did or did not
kill nancy


I know that I can not get inside your head and know exactly who you called a powderkeg, but I can speculate, and I speculate it was a poster who has not yet jumped on the Brad guilty bandwagon.

I do not believe you would call any poster flashing their jail sign and fry Brad messages a powderkeg regardless of how explosive their post were.

To another poster that mentioned stirring the pot. I havn't posted in about 3 days, I'm really no match for all of you. It is just sometimes I listen and I think until I have to say something.

I will leave you with this.

Justice being done will not raise the dead.
It will not soothe the ache in the dark in the night.
But justice does do something exceedingly important:
it assures us that we do not live in some random universe,
untethered to morality or consequence.

[Deduction]

my reference to people being powderkegs has nothing to do with whether they believe brad did or did not
kill nancy


I know that I can not get inside your head and know exactly who you called a powderkeg, but I can speculate, and I speculate it was a poster who has not yet jumped on the Brad guilty bandwagon.

I do not believe you would call any poster flashing their jail sign and fry Brad messages a powderkeg regardless of how explosive their post were.

To another poster that mentioned stirring the pot. I havn't posted in about 3 days, I'm really no match for all of you. It is just sometimes I listen and I think until I have to say something.

I will leave you with this.

Justice being done will not raise the dead.
It will not soothe the ache in the dark of the night.
But justice does do something exceedingly important:
it assures us that we do not live in some random universe,
untethered to morality or consequence.

[The Saint]

I know that I can not get inside your head and know exactly who you called a powderkeg, but I can speculate, and I speculate it was a poster who has not yet jumped on the Brad guilty bandwagon.

I do not believe you would call any poster flashing their jail sign and fry Brad messages a powderkeg regardless of how explosive their post were.

To another poster that mentioned stirring the pot. I havn't posted in about 3 days, I'm really no match for all of you. It is just sometimes I listen and I think until I have to say something.

I will leave you with this.

Justice being done will not raise the dead.
It will not soothe the ache in the dark in the night.
But justice does do something exceedingly important:
it assures us that we do not live in some random universe,
untethered to morality or consequence.


your speculation is off.
in my mind, i was thinking of 4 posters -2 think brad killed nancy and 2 think he did not.


where is the flogging a dead horse icon?

[sunflowers]

i'm not an attorney, but i believe NC family law is that ALL of the assets accrued *during the course of the marriage* are split, unless one person has received an inheritance that is not co-mingled with their assets. nancy was entitled to half of all of the cisco "stuff" because he took the job after their marriage. she was entitled to half of Brad's previous company's pension from the time that they got married. assets accrued prior to the marriage that are not co-mingled are *not* community property.

any income or bonus that brad received while living with Nancy is community property. Alice Stubbs (Nancy's attorney) would have gotten his official pay stubs etc so that she had the right numbers to work with.

[momto3kids]

Has anyone gotten the chance to look at the artists paintings listed on the seperation agreeement?

[CARYISHOME]

i'm not an attorney, but i believe NC family law is that ALL of the assets accrued *during the course of the marriage* are split, unless one person has received an inheritance that is not co-mingled with their assets. nancy was entitled to half of all of the cisco "stuff" because he took the job after their marriage. she was entitled to half of Brad's previous company's pension from the time that they got married. assets accrued prior to the marriage that are not co-mingled are *not* community property.

any income or bonus that brad received while living with Nancy is community property. Alice Stubbs (Nancy's attorney) would have gotten his official pay stubs etc so that she had the right numbers to work with.

Yeah...I've been looking around for information about a 10-year marriage rule - I haven't found anything yet. Maybe it was just my imagination.

I'm not an attorney, either, and this may be OT, but NC is not a community property state, is it? I might be getting in over my head here - I know it gets complicated real fast.

:confused:

[Star12]

Yeah...I've been looking around for information about a 10-year marriage rule - I haven't found anything yet. Maybe it was just my imagination.

I'm not an attorney, either, and this may be OT, but NC is not a community property state, is it? I might be getting in over my head here - I know it gets complicated real fast.

:confused:

Isn't it 10 years for social security benefits?

[CARYISHOME]

Isn't it 10 years for social security benefits?

Ahhhhh...I'll look.

[momto3kids]

Well I killed the thread, didn't I ? LOL:angel:

No Jess.
It has been this way for a few nights now. Slow, not much to talk about unless we compare notes on what we are thinking.

I just want some small shuffle to occur from anyone with this case and I will be happy.

[CARYISHOME]

Isn't it 10 years for social security benefits?

Yes, that's what it is. Nancy would not be able to get Brad's social security benefits because they had not been married for 10 years. Thanks for helping jog my memory.

http://www.ssa.gov/gethelp1.htm

[CARYISHOME]

No Jess.
It has been this way for a few nights now. Slow, not much to talk about unless we compare notes on what we are thinking.

I just want some small shuffle to occur from anyone with this case and I will be happy.


I have been feeling that way for at least a couple of weeks. I want something to happen.

[Bob&Bob]

It might be in stock options and that's what he was most likely going to retain as his own personal property. Can't recall exactly, but there was something he was getting and Nancy was getting the 401K. Oh, she was getting the 401K AFTER the loan on it was paid off from the home proceeds, IIRC.

JMHO
fran


Which ex? She has several.

[Cheyenne130]

Which ex? She has several.

Which ex? What is that in reference to? You lost me.

[Bob&Bob]

Has anyone gotten the chance to look at the artists paintings listed on the seperation agreeement?

I have.

[Star12]

Which ex? What is that in reference to? You lost me.

I think Bob, or perhaps the other Bob, is referring to Christie Brinkley's ex

[momto3kids]

I have been feeling that way for at least a couple of weeks. I want something to happen.

I know the old saying, "Silence is Golden", but this isn't what I want. I want just a little shuffle every once in awhile.

I just don't have the patience of JOE as they say. LOL

[Cheyenne130]

I think Bob, or perhaps the other Bob, is referring to Christie Brinkley's ex

No wonder I was lost. I must have wandered onto the wrong thread.

[The Saint]

did brad's lawyers request the Time Warner bill so brad could say that he wasn't busy killing his wife but watching Blades of Glory (or p*rn) on pay-per-view?

[Star12]

did brad's lawyers request the Time Warner bill so brad could say that he wasn't busy killing his wife but watching Blades of Glory (or p*rn) on pay-per-view?

I wasn't aware that they requested the TW bill. Did they?

However, many people have a combo of TW internet and landline telephone.

[SleuthyGal]

Momto3, I'm impatient too. I want some action in this case. I have to remind myself that catching Nancy's killer and getting a successful conviction is the most important thing is this case and therefore I must maintain some faith in the process AND commend the CPD for keeping their mouths shut so that there is less sensationalism.

The part of me that enjoys the bantering and debating and wanting every last little scrap of info is frustrated. The part of me that wants the perp to be caught, successfully convicted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law is glad they are taking their time and (hopefully) doing things right and putting all their duckies in order.

Frankly I don't know which side of me will win out in the end, but I suppose it doesn't really matter...

I'm along for the journey no matter which way it goes.

[Deduction]

did brad's lawyers request the Time Warner bill so brad could say that he wasn't busy killing his wife but watching Blades of Glory (or p*rn) on pay-per-view?

I don't know why they requested it, but if he is innocent and this proves it in any way more power to them right?

[momto3kids]

Momto3, I'm impatient too. I want some action in this case. I have to remind myself that catching Nancy's killer and getting a successful conviction is the most important thing is this case and therefore I must maintain some faith in the process AND commend the CPD for keeping their mouths shut so that there is less sensationalism.

The part of me that enjoys the bantering and debating and wanting every last little scrap of info is frustrated. The part of me that wants the perp to be caught, successfully convicted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law is glad they are taking their time and (hopefully) doing things right and putting all their duckies in order.

Frankly I don't know which side of me will win out in the end, but I suppose it doesn't really matter...

I'm along for the journey no matter which way it goes.

The last murder in Cary I didn't follow it, but heard about it. I think from the date the wife was found and the husband arrested was 1 month.

I don't know how much they had on that husband in comparison to BC.

[Star12]

I don't know why they requested it, but if he is innocent and this proves it in any way more power to them right?

Where and how did they request this bill? I must have missed that. Do you have a link for the request?

[momto3kids]

did brad's lawyers request the Time Warner bill so brad could say that he wasn't busy killing his wife but watching Blades of Glory (or p*rn) on pay-per-view?

It was so he could prove he was a good dad and had the Disney Channel for the girls.

[CARYISHOME]

Has anyone gotten the chance to look at the artists paintings listed on the seperation agreeement?

I have looked at them, too. All I can say is that for the most part they aren't my style. A couple of them were nice (to my unsophisticated eye). Also they cost more than I would be willing to pay - of course, I might spend the money in a way they might not. To each his/her own.

What are you're thoughts, mt3k?

[Deduction]

Where and how did they request this bill? I must have missed that. Do you have a link for the request?

It was in yesterday's WRAL article I think, You can probably chase it down faster than I can as I am move very slow for reasons beyond my control.
I will try and find it though if you can't.

[Star12]

It was so he could prove he was a good dad and had the Disney Channel for the girls.

Mom, where was this listed that it was requested?

And where are the paintings? I'd like to take a look there, too.

How am I missing this stuff?

[momto3kids]

Where and how did they request this bill? I must have missed that. Do you have a link for the request?

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1167079.html
This is the article.

[momto3kids]

Mom, where was this listed that it was requested?

And where are the paintings? I'd like to take a look there, too.

How am I missing this stuff?

Star...I am just pulling your leg about Disney.
But again he is NOT a POI or suspect so what else could they be looking for?:cool:

The paintings they have are listed in their seperation agreement.
I found a website that has many, not all, of the artists listed and the paintings. Problem is we don't know which painting they had or its exact cost. It is interesting to see tho.

http://www.canadahouse.com/dynamic/artist_list.asp

[CARYISHOME]

Also, I read the artists names on the separation agreement and then searched on their names.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257922/Draft_of_separation_agreement.pdf

[Star12]

Star...I am just pulling your leg about Disney.
But again he is NOT a POI or suspect so what else could they be looking for?:cool:

Thanks for the link. I think I did see that, but it just didn't register.

:::whine::: now one leg is longer than the other. :laugh::star2:

[Star12]

Also, I read the artists names on the separation agreement and then searched on their names.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257922/Draft_of_separation_agreement.pdf

Thanks. I had seen the listing in the draft agreement, but didn't realize some, or at least others by the artists, might be on line.

[raisincharlie]

I wasn't aware that they requested the TW bill. Did they?

However, many people have a combo of TW internet and landline telephone.

Bingo.

These guys take over today ? :alien::alien::alien:

Where is that smilie of the men in white coats at ...

[Star12]

Bingo.

These guys take over today ? :alien::alien::alien:

Where is that smilie of the men in white coats at ...

Oh, Bubba, please don't send those white coated guys after me again.:snooty:

[raisincharlie]

Oh, Bubba, please don't send those white coated guys after me again.:snooty:

You are not on the list :p

[momto3kids]

Bingo.

These guys take over today ? :alien::alien::alien:

Where is that smilie of the men in white coats at ...

YEP RC....and you weren't here to see it. Were you?
We had 2 of them, sometimes together and then 1 at a time.

[momto3kids]

Also, I read the artists names on the separation agreement and then searched on their names.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3257922/Draft_of_separation_agreement.pdf

What did you think of the paintings? They were totally different than I expected.

[raisincharlie]

YEP RC....and you weren't here to see it. Were you?
We had 2 of them, sometimes together and then 1 at a time.

Glad I missed it, but I have been studying a whole lot.

[momto3kids]

Les Thomas had the most different kind of paintings to me. Simple, but very different. What did you think?

[Star12]

YEP RC....and you weren't here to see it. Were you?
We had 2 of them, sometimes together and then 1 at a time.

It's frustrating, isn't it.

To keep somewhat on topic, Mom, do you remember when the other HT opened? It was sometime after Christmas, wasnt it? Do you ever shop there? I was just wondering about how busy it might be.

[CARYISHOME]

What did you think of the paintings? They were totally different than I expected.

Well, they were all by Canadian artists and mostly all landscapes, presumably of Canada and its mountains. Kinda reminded me of impressionist western/rustic type oil paintings. As I said, not really my style.

What did you think?

[momto3kids]

It's frustrating, isn't it.

To keep somewhat on topic, Mom, do you remember when the other HT opened? It was sometime after Christmas, wasnt it? Do you ever shop there? I was just wondering about how busy it might be.

March I think. I have never gone in there. It looks like the one in Holly Springs and Apex. I just can't get it together shopping in those since the layout is so different and find I stay fustrated because of it. Can you tell I love the one in CC?

[raisincharlie]

Having listened to Jessica Adam's 911 call a few times, does anyone wonder if when she talked with Brad - the second time, she flat told him if he didn't get worried she was going to call 911 ? The fear in her voice was palpable and then we see an affidavit where she flats says she thinks Brad murdered Nancy. What do you all think ?

[momto3kids]

Well, they were all by Canadian artists and mostly all landscapes, presumably of Canada and its mountains. Kinda reminded me of impressionist western/rustic type oil paintings. As I said, not really my style.

What did you think?

I really liked the ones done by Rod Charlesworth. I still think Les Thomas was the most unique.

If I was to buy any artist it would be Bob Timberlake, but I just never got into art.

[CARYISHOME]

Les Thomas had the most different kind of paintings to me. Simple, but very different. What did you think?

Les Thomas' pictures are of bears and it was Nancy that wanted that picture. I thought the pictures of the baby bears might be good in a children's area.

http://www.canadahouse.com/dynamic/artists/Les_Thomas.asp

Of the ones I looked at I liked Katerina Mertikas' paintings. They are bright and fun looking. A child would like them.

http://www.katerinamertikas.com/gallery.htm

[Bob&Bob]

Well, they were all by Canadian artists and mostly all landscapes, presumably of Canada and its mountains. Kinda reminded me of impressionist western/rustic type oil paintings. As I said, not really my style.

What did you think?


Pierre Bedard
Fleurs en carafe

[momto3kids]

Les Thomas' pictures are of bears and it was Nancy that wanted that picture. I thought the pictures of the baby bears might be good in a children's area.

http://www.canadahouse.com/dynamic/artists/Les_Thomas.asp

Of the ones I looked at I liked Katerina Mertikas' paintings. They are bright and fun looking. A child would like them.

http://www.katerinamertikas.com/gallery.htm

I am not seeing the baby bears. What I am seeing is the HARE! You couldn't give me that painting..LOL

[CARYISHOME]

I really liked the ones done by Rod Charlesworth. I still think Les Thomas was the most unique.

If I was to buy any artist it would be Bob Timberlake, but I just never got into art.

I like Rod's, too. Also bright and fun looking.

[Daphne69]

Re-reading Brad's affidavit (affidavit, not rebuttal affidavit which is presumably the one answering accusations made by others), #61 seems odd for a custody affidavit:

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?

ETA: My thought here is that a pregnancy or evidence of rape would then be used to suggest another person was involved?

[Cheyenne130]

Re-reading Brad's affidavit (affidavit, not rebuttal affidavit which is presumably the one answering accusations made by others), #61 seems odd for a custody affidavit:

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?

I think he was pre-empting the information that was going to come out about the affair. I think he was justifying.

[CARYISHOME]

I am not seeing the baby bears. What I am seeing is the HARE! You couldn't give me that painting..LOL

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was trying to be diplomatic!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[momto3kids]

Pierre Bedard
Fleurs en carafe

2B's...is this your favorite??

[Deduction]

Having listened to Jessica Adam's 911 call a few times, does anyone wonder if when she talked with Brad - the second time, she flat told him if he didn't get worried she was going to call 911 ? The fear in her voice was palpable and then we see an affidavit where she flats says she thinks Brad murdered Nancy. What do you all think ?

I have wondered a lot about this Jessica and her relationship with Nancy as have several other people.
Jessica stated in a July 22 affidavit."I immediately felt strange, because I knew that Nancy would have informed me if she was meeting Carrie for a run."

How stinking petty and intrusive is this social click! What are they in the 6th grade? Nancy Cooper is not allowed to do something with Carrie without Jessica's permission?

There are several people that think Jessica Adams is by far the most suspicious looking character of the bunch.

Some go so far as to think she is involved in the murder because of her suspicious actions. I do not think that, as I am accusing no one, however, if I were LE , I certainly would have some questions for her.

[raisincharlie]

Re-reading Brad's affidavit (affidavit, not rebuttal affidavit which is presumably the one answering accusations made by others), #61 seems odd for a custody affidavit:

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?

If we find out COD by the autopsy, we will not learn if there is a rape - only if there were indications of such and if a rape kit was performed. The results would not be in the autopsy report. If sshe was pregnant, that will be listed in the autopsy report.

I took the above statement as having multiple purposes. Pity party for one, justification in the event Brad suffered more indescretions during that 2.5 years, and an effort to show Nancy wasn't all that great since she was not providing the expected wifely services, were my initial responses.

[Daphne69]

I think he was pre-empting the information that was going to come out about the affair. I think he was justifying.

Perhaps, but he mentions his "indiscretion" in #58 and says it was 3 years ago, predating the, um, lack of activity since Katie.

[momto3kids]

Re-reading Brad's affidavit (affidavit, not rebuttal affidavit which is presumably the one answering accusations made by others), #61 seems odd for a custody affidavit:

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?

ETA: My thought here is that a pregnancy or evidence of rape would then be used to suggest another person was involved?

I would think if there were any signs of rape the CPD wouldn't have been so quick to state it wasn't random. IMO

[raisincharlie]

I have wondered a lot about this Jessica and her relationship with Nancy as have several other people.
Jessica stated in a July 22 affidavit."I immediately felt strange, because I knew that Nancy would have informed me if she was meeting Carrie for a run."

How stinking petty and intrusive is this social click! What are they in the 6th grade? Nancy Cooper is not allowed to do something with Carrie without Jessica's permission?

There are several people that think Jessica Adams is by far the most suspicious looking character of the bunch.

Some go so far as to think she is involved in the murder because of her suspicious actions. I do not think that, as I am accusing no one, however, if I were LE , I certainly would have some questions for her.

Since Jessica was a training partner, and the training involved a fairly set routine - I find nothing odd about it at all. Add in that Nancy was suppose to be at her house at 8 am - I don't find it suspicious.

[Cheyenne130]

Perhaps, but he mentions his "indiscretion" in #58 and says it was 3 years ago, predating the, um, lack of activity since Katie.

Good point. It still seems like a ploy to me to make her look bad. That little bit of private information doesn't seem like something that would help in her murder investigation or the custody hearing. Her lack of interest in him sexually doesn't have anything to do with either, IMO

[CARYISHOME]

Re-reading Brad's affidavit (affidavit, not rebuttal affidavit which is presumably the one answering accusations made by others), #61 seems odd for a custody affidavit:

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?

ETA: My thought here is that a pregnancy or evidence of rape would then be used to suggest another person was involved?

2 1/2 years is a looooonnnnggg time. But, honestly, if Nancy essentially had full responsibility for 2 babies all day and all night she might have been too exhausted to want to do much of anything else. I must say sex wasn't a high priority for me when I was in that situation.

[momto3kids]

I have wondered a lot about this Jessica and her relationship with Nancy as have several other people.
Jessica stated in a July 22 affidavit."I immediately felt strange, because I knew that Nancy would have informed me if she was meeting Carrie for a run."

How stinking petty and intrusive is this social click! What are they in the 6th grade? Nancy Cooper is not allowed to do something with Carrie without Jessica's permission?

There are several people that think Jessica Adams is by far the most suspicious looking character of the bunch.

Some go so far as to think she is involved in the murder because of her suspicious actions. I do not think that, as I am accusing no one, however, if I were LE , I certainly would have some questions for her.

I have said from the beginning...JA holds the key to much of this case.
JA made a bold statement in her affidavit to state, "I believe Brad murdered Nancy. Pretty bold to say that IMO.

I think with JA statement about NC didn't inform her about the jog, was because she expected NC at 8am and she thought NC would have mentioned she was jogging before coming in case she was late. I do this all the time in case there is a possibility I might run late for something I am expected for. I need to do ABC before I get there. I think this is what JA was meaning.

[momto3kids]

Having listened to Jessica Adam's 911 call a few times, does anyone wonder if when she talked with Brad - the second time, she flat told him if he didn't get worried she was going to call 911 ? The fear in her voice was palpable and then we see an affidavit where she flats says she thinks Brad murdered Nancy. What do you all think ?

RC...I don't know if she was that bold to him. She spoke to him when he called at 12:30, but JA didn't call the LE until 2:15.

I think he freaked out when she offered to come right over..he panicked obviously.

[raisincharlie]

I have said from the beginning...JA holds the key to much of this case.
JA made a bold statement in her affidavit to state, "I believe Brad murdered Nancy. Pretty bold to say that IMO.

I think with JA statement about NC didn't inform her about the jog, was because she expected NC at 8am and she thought NC would have mentioned she was jogging before coming in case she was late. I do this all the time in case there is a possibility I might run late for something I am expected for. I need to do ABC before I get there. I think this is what JA was meaning.

I wish JA would have said in her affidavit if the X5 was in the drive when she and Mary Richardson arrived to meet up with LE at the house.

[CARYISHOME]

Originally Posted by Deduction
I have wondered a lot about this Jessica and her relationship with Nancy as have several other people.
Jessica stated in a July 22 affidavit."I immediately felt strange, because I knew that Nancy would have informed me if she was meeting Carrie for a run."

How stinking petty and intrusive is this social click! What are they in the 6th grade? Nancy Cooper is not allowed to do something with Carrie without Jessica's permission?

There are several people that think Jessica Adams is by far the most suspicious looking character of the bunch.

Some go so far as to think she is involved in the murder because of her suspicious actions. I do not think that, as I am accusing no one, however, if I were LE , I certainly would have some questions for her.

..................................
Please elaborate more. What are her suspicious actions? What would be your questions?

Who are these several people? Do you mean they are in the neighborhood or on this board?

[momto3kids]

I wish JA would have said in her affidavit if the X5 was in the drive when she and Mary Richardson arrived to meet up with LE at the house.


I know, I wish I knew also.

I just reread JA affidavit. Something is not right...#9

JA states he called her at 12:30, when they hung up she immediately called 911. I thought the call to 911 came in at 2:15?

[raisincharlie]

RC...I don't know if she was that bold to him. She spoke to him when he called at 12:30, but JA didn't call the LE until 2:15.

I think he freaked out when she offered to come right over..he panicked obviously.

I can't imagine why he would freak out - seems to me he would have considered help to be a good thing instead of dragging the little ones about. Then again, maybe he just didn't like her - probably a good bet - seems there is no love lost betwixt the two. Gotta wonder about that.

You know - I have seen all kinds of times listed in media reports for when JA called 911. Chief Bazemore says 2:51 pm, some media reports say 2:15, others say 1:15. Dunno

[momto3kids]

I can't imagine why he would freak out - seems to me he would have considered help to be a good thing instead of dragging the little ones about. Then again, maybe he just didn't like her - probably a good bet - seems there is no love lost betwixt the two. Gotta wonder about that.

You know - I have seen all kinds of times listed in media reports for when JA called 911. Chief Bazemore says 2:51 pm, some media reports say 2:15, others say 1:15. Dunno

Between BC and JA affidavits the times are just not matching.
She says she called at 9:25, he says 10:45 to 11,
he says he fed the kids, etc then left at 1pm
she says he basically hung up on her when he called at 12:30
he states he called around at noon

the thing I keep thinking is they have cells to look back at the times of actual time or the home phone should have caller ID to get that info.

They also had time to get the actual times for the affidavits...they aren't matching!

[raisincharlie]

Does anyone recalling hearing if Scott Heider's kids , ages 4 and 6 are boys or girls or one each or what ?

Looking at his (Heider) affidavit there is an interesting timeline there. The day Nancy's body is identifed and her death is ruled a homicide, Brad decides to leave the home and take his girls to Scott's house to hide them from the media. Interesting, and then there is the photo of Brad leaving the house with the carseats while LE is conducting the search on the 16th.

Wonder if Heider picked them up on the 15th or Brad drove over, had to return whatever vehicle he drove to Heider's the next day because of the search warrant for the car ? Hmmmmm

[raisincharlie]

Between BC and JA affidavits the times are just not matching.
She says she called at 9:25, he says 10:45 to 11,
he says he fed the kids, etc then left at 1pm
she says he basically hung up on her when he called at 12:30
he states he called around at noon

the thing I keep thinking is they have cells to look back at the times of actual time or the home phone should have caller ID to get that info.

They also had time to get the actual times for the affidavits...they aren't matching!

Probably why Brad's lawyer subpeona'd TWC - phone records for the landline.

[Bob&Bob]

2B's...is this your favorite??

I liked The Rabbit.

[Bob&Bob]

If he never did laundry how come he was going to get the
washer/dryer?

[CARYISHOME]

If he never did laundry how come he was going to get the
washer/dryer?

Maybe she was going to move into an apartment complex that had laundry facilities?

[raisincharlie]

I know, I wish I knew also.

I just reread JA affidavit. Something is not right...#9

JA states he called her at 12:30, when they hung up she immediately called 911. I thought the call to 911 came in at 2:15?

I have a feeling the X5 was not in the driveway when LE arrived.

[raisincharlie]

Maybe she was going to move into an apartment complex that had laundry facilities?

I thought she was going to her sister's house...

[The Saint]

Re-reading Brad's affidavit (affidavit, not rebuttal affidavit which is presumably the one answering accusations made by others), #61 seems odd for a custody affidavit:

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?

ETA: My thought here is that a pregnancy or evidence of rape would then be used to suggest another person was involved?

i think brad forgot to list the reason why she wouldn't have sex with him; didn't nancy find out about an affair and refused to have sex with him after that?

i think one of the reasons that brad's lawyers want the autopsy made public is that there may have been a sexual assault committed against nancy.

for some reason brad thinks that would point away from him.

the body may have been staged to look like nancy had been assaulted near where her body was found.

[momto3kids]

Does anyone recalling hearing if Scott Heider's kids , ages 4 and 6 are boys or girls or one each or what ?

Looking at his (Heider) affidavit there is an interesting timeline there. The day Nancy's body is identifed and her death is ruled a homicide, Brad decides to leave the home and take his girls to Scott's house to hide them from the media. Interesting, and then there is the photo of Brad leaving the house with the carseats while LE is conducting the search on the 16th.

Wonder if Heider picked them up on the 15th or Brad drove over, had to return whatever vehicle he drove to Heider's the next day because of the search warrant for the car ? Hmmmmm



My thoughts are he couldn't take the car seats when they went in at 2am. The car seats could have possible evidence. IMO

Wow..leaves before they arrive? Did he retain K&B before this and was possibly told to do this?

[CARYISHOME]

I thought she was going to her sister's house...

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

I wonder why computers aren't listed....

I also wonder the significance of the coffee maker. I mean, it must be one heck of a coffee maker, no? Must have been a sticking point for some reason.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Deduction
I have wondered a lot about this Jessica and her relationship with Nancy as have several other people.
Jessica stated in a July 22 affidavit."I immediately felt strange, because I knew that Nancy would have informed me if she was meeting Carrie for a run."

How stinking petty and intrusive is this social click! What are they in the 6th grade? Nancy Cooper is not allowed to do something with Carrie without Jessica's permission?

There are several people that think Jessica Adams is by far the most suspicious looking character of the bunch.

Some go so far as to think she is involved in the murder because of her suspicious actions. I do not think that, as I am accusing no one, however, if I were LE , I certainly would have some questions for her.

..................................
Please elaborate more. What are her suspicious actions? What would be your questions?

Who are these several people? Do you mean they are in the neighborhood or on this board?
_____________

it is not about a social click. it is about training for an upcoming race according to a runner who posted.

[raisincharlie]

The News&Observer got the date wrong..Tuesday would be the 15th. Did you catch that? :D

My thoughts are he couldn't take the car seats when they went in at 2am. The car seats could have possible evidence. IMO

Note time line thread above - check it against the articles and Scott Heider's affidavit. Brad went to SH's the day Nancy was id'd and the case changed to a homicide. The search warrant was served at 2 am on the 16th - LE was at SH's house to get a DNA sample from Brad at 3 am.

The girls, one vehicle possibly and two car seats possibly were at SH's house before the search warrant was served.

[The Saint]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

I wonder why computers aren't listed....

I also wonder the significance of the coffee maker. I mean, it must be one heck of a coffee maker, no? Must have been a sticking point for some reason.

could be an expensive cappuccino machine

[jumpstreet]

Nancy and I have not been physically intimate since we conceived Katie, two and a half years ago.

Makes me wonder. When we find out COD will we find out something about a possible rape, or dare I suggest this, a pregnancy? Thoughts?



...the body may have been staged to look like nancy had been assaulted near where her body was found.

Or... BC knew (or suspected) she had been having recent extra-curricular activities also, and suspected there may be evidence of this upon examination. [ Theory (B) (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171) ]

[raisincharlie]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

I wonder why computers aren't listed....

I also wonder the significance of the coffee maker. I mean, it must be one heck of a coffee maker, no? Must have been a sticking point for some reason.

Nancy liked $20 wine - maybe Brad liked expensive coffee or expresso. :D

[The Saint]

Does anyone recalling hearing if Scott Heider's kids , ages 4 and 6 are boys or girls or one each or what ?

Looking at his (Heider) affidavit there is an interesting timeline there. The day Nancy's body is identifed and her death is ruled a homicide, Brad decides to leave the home and take his girls to Scott's house to hide them from the media. Interesting, and then there is the photo of Brad leaving the house with the carseats while LE is conducting the search on the 16th.

Wonder if Heider picked them up on the 15th or Brad drove over, had to return whatever vehicle he drove to Heider's the next day because of the search warrant for the car ? Hmmmmm


could it be 2 girls and a canine?

[momto3kids]

I liked The Rabbit.

The one for $3300? It is cute isn't it. I just don't like the hare..:snooty:

[raisincharlie]

could it be 2 girls and a canine?

ROFL - no - one of the girls was allergic to dogs - if there was a dog there, surely superdad wouldn't take the child there.

[Bob&Bob]

In the separation agreement it says that each person pays their own attorney. Who pays Alice Stubbs now?

[raisincharlie]

In the separation agreement it says that each person pays their own attorney. Who pays Alice Stubbs now?

The same people who have been paying her all along - Nancy's parents.

[Bob&Bob]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

I wonder why computers aren't listed....

I also wonder the significance of the coffee maker. I mean, it must be one heck of a coffee maker, no? Must have been a sticking point for some reason.

Maybe she didn't drink coffee.

[Bob&Bob]

The same people who have been paying her all along - Nancy's parents.

How do you know they've been paying her all along?

[The Saint]

Nancy liked $20 wine - maybe Brad liked expensive coffee or expresso. :D
brad could have eaten $20 worth of Power Bars or vitamins each day.

nancy could have bought the wine as a gift for a friend in exchange for
helping her and the girls.

she may have bought for herself when she found out brad had made
$445,000 (including a $285,000 bonus.)

i looked at a few of those artists on that website. it could be that the coopers felt like they were supporting the arts and buying the paintings as an investment.

NC and the sourrounding southern states are full of self-taught folk artists whose paintings are highly sought and their value has increased.

the artists they selected were mostly canadian, right?
they may have felt homesick for canada.

[raisincharlie]

How do you know they've been paying her all along?

It's a given Brad wasn't, it's also a given Nancy wasn't - who's left?

[raisincharlie]

Back to Scott Heider - in his affidavit he also states Nancy initiated a seperation from Brad in May 2007 - wonder what changed her mind to stop the proceeding that time ?

[Bob&Bob]

Maybe this is a better question.

I apologize for not being more specific.

So, if you die before the lawyer is paid and no one else is paying
how does the lawyer get paid?

[raisincharlie]

Maybe this is a better question.

I apologize for not being more specific.

So, if you die before the lawyer is paid and no one else is paying
how does the lawyer get paid?

:D Dunno -

[jumpstreet]

A "Just the facts" thread that contained only confirmed facts (like the maps thread) would help quell some of the random speculation

I think in theory, this is a great idea (especially to help those new come up to speed on the known facts).

The biggest challenge I see right now is so far, there are very few things known with 100% certainty. Most all of the allegations in the affidavits are heresay/opinion/inadmissible, so all of that stuff would be out of bounds for a "just the facts" thread.

At this point, what if anything do we really know with 100% certainty?

We know she was determined missing, we know a search occurred, and we know she has been reported deceased. Other than this, what (of any substance) is known so far really?

[ Even our informal straw poll has Theory D (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171) (that Nancy is still alive and in a Witness Protection Program or something) at greater than (though close) to 0% chance ]

Again, I think it's a great notion, but I suspect much of anything beyond the above wouldn't get a consensus to decree as "certain facts".

Hopefully the clarity will improve going forward though (we could always start the thread small, and add to it as things become more solid)

[Sewing_Buddy]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

I wonder why computers aren't listed....

I also wonder the significance of the coffee maker. I mean, it must be one heck of a coffee maker, no? Must have been a sticking point for some reason.

....And they split up Bella's bedroom set but don't mention anything about Katie's crib or a dresser. If the girls had separate bedrooms, I can't imagine they didn't both have a dresser.

[Tink56]

Maybe this is a better question.

I apologize for not being more specific.

So, if you die before the lawyer is paid and no one else is paying
how does the lawyer get paid?

Generally, outstanding debts are paid from the "estate" of the deceased before any heirs are awarded any portion of the estate.

This would be the same with medical bills, funeral expenses, etc.

NC's parents are paying for the custody suit.

[jumpstreet]

So, if you die before the lawyer is paid and no one else is paying
how does the lawyer get paid?

Presumably this would be a debt on your estate, and handled like other debts post-mortem (paid by liquidating estate assets as necessary)

[CARYISHOME]

:D Dunno -

So, could her lawyer sue Brad for her debts?

[momto3kids]

could it be 2 girls and a canine?

My thoughts as well.

[raisincharlie]

So, could her lawyer sue Brad for her debts?

Seriously I don't know the answer to that.

[momto3kids]

Back to Scott Heider - in his affidavit he also states Nancy initiated a seperation from Brad in May 2007 - wonder what changed her mind to stop the proceeding that time ?

Maybe the counseling had them make an attempt at it?

[Bob&Bob]

Back to Scott Heider - in his affidavit he also states Nancy initiated a seperation from Brad in May 2007 - wonder what changed her mind to stop the proceeding that time ?


Why do you think SH put in his last line in the
affadavit that they locked and deadbolted their house?

[jumpstreet]

So, could her lawyer sue Brad for her debts?

Only a "guess", but any expenses incurred after her death I suspect would not necessarily be BC's responsibility (would be the parents presumably).

As for any "outstanding balance" from before, (ie, separation/divorce preparations), it seems like it's entirely possible that BC would need to settle that up (since they're still legally married).

No doubt there's a ton of general probate paperwork that needs to be worked through (in "normal" loss of spouse circumstances it's involved I suspect, much less these "less than normal" ones). Folks have wondered what BC has been up to (with not working and all) - no doubt he has plenty to keep him busy just with some of these administrative items.

[raisincharlie]

Maybe the counseling had them make an attempt at it?

Could be - thats about the time Brad said he stopped training, Scott said "relaxed" his training. Could very well be, but Brad also claims Nancy only went a few times while he wanted to go more. Dunno - according to Brad - it just doesn't seem she wanted to work it out at all. Wish she had left then...

[CARYISHOME]

My thoughts as well.

So Brad took the allergic daughter to a house with a dog? Sometimes you have to do things in a pinch, but that would have opened him up to claims from her parents about his fitness as a parent.

Might help explain why the custody agreement with her parents specifically mentioned not having a dog.

[momto3kids]

Why do you think SH put in his last line in the
affadavit that they locked and deadbolted their house?

I just read that! Strange isn't it? Lock and deadbolt the house, but leave the purse w/cell in the car?

Something doesn't sound right does it 2B's?

[raisincharlie]

Why do you think SH put in his last line in the
affadavit that they locked and deadbolted their house?

I noticed that line - thought it was odd and am still wondering about it. Not sure what to make of that Bob & Bob - it is curious. Seems to me if they were that safety conscious, there is probably little chance Nancy actually left the purse in the car overnight.

[raisincharlie]

So Brad took the allergic daughter to a house with a dog? Sometimes you have to do things in a pinch, but that would have opened him up to claims from her parents about his fitness as a parent.

Might help explain why the custody agreement with her parents specifically mentioned not having a dog.

No no - lets stop here - don't know that there is a dog at SH's place. I agree, it would open questions - if there is a dog there but there is nothing to indicate there was.

[The Saint]

Why do you think SH put in his last line in the
affadavit that they locked and deadbolted their house?

to keep out the mistress who had called nancy to report the affair?

[Daphne69]

My thoughts as well.

I had been thinking that too.

[raisincharlie]

I had been thinking that too.

I was thinking Maxwell Smart maybe - you know with his partner Agent 99 ?:D

[jumpstreet]

Why do you think SH put in his last line in the
affadavit that they locked and deadbolted their house?

Just a speculation: One of the assertions of the plantiffs in the custody hearing was that the children weren't in a "safe" environment if custody remained with the father. Perhaps this was just a way of SH trying to assert at least that they had a habit of keeping their home secure, etc. [ Implying safe from outside intruders, etc ] {Granted, the plantiffs perhaps weren't exactly implying the threat was from outside the home, but perhaps SH didn't think this would hurt}

Agree the comment seems a little out-of-sync though.

[Deduction]

Originally Posted by Deduction
I have wondered a lot about this Jessica and her relationship with Nancy as have several other people.
Jessica stated in a July 22 affidavit."I immediately felt strange, because I knew that Nancy would have informed me if she was meeting Carrie for a run."

How stinking petty and intrusive is this social click! What are they in the 6th grade? Nancy Cooper is not allowed to do something with Carrie without Jessica's permission?

There are several people that think Jessica Adams is by far the most suspicious looking character of the bunch.

Some go so far as to think she is involved in the murder because of her suspicious actions. I do not think that, as I am accusing no one, however, if I were LE , I certainly would have some questions for her.

..................................
Please elaborate more. What are her suspicious actions? What would be your questions?

Who are these several people? Do you mean they are in the neighborhood or on this board?

I really hesitate to even post them on this board because they will be made fun of and kicked to the way side in about 30 seconds after I hit the submit button. This is the only community I know of that is nearly 100% Brad did it.
Local newspapers for instance have comments sections. You might want to go back through some of their old comments sections for the comments about Jessica.

One of the other reasons people are suspious of Jessica is the 911 call. I won't even try to explain it from my viewpoint, because I have noticed over the past several days, that would be a waste of time.

If you move off this board you can find some discussion that police might have made a mistake and it might not be someone that she knew. That is not a real popular theory but it at least does get mentioned .

[momto3kids]

I had been thinking that too.

The guy today stated a 2 yo and 3 yo if I am correct. SH has a 4 and 6 yo

[CyberPro]

:D Dunno -

The estate, this would be part of settling the deceased estate. The family lawyer that I am familiar with took a fairly large retainer before beginning a family case, and would work from the retainer as long as it lasted.

CyberPro

[raisincharlie]

The estate, this would be part of settling the deceased estate. The family lawyer that I am familiar with took a fairly large retainer before beginning a family case, and would work from the retainer as long as it lasted.

CyberPro

How would Nancy come up with money for a retainer to start with ?


ETA - maybe that is how Nancy ran the charge cards up - makes sense he would remove the cards and access to the bank account if so.

[momto3kids]

I really hesitate to even post them on this board because they will be made fun of and kicked to the way side in about 30 seconds after I hit the submit button. This is the only community I know of that is nearly 100% Brad did it.
Local newspapers for instance have comments sections. You might want to go back through some of their old comments sections for the comments about Jessica.

One of the other reasons people are suspious of Jessica is the 911 call. I won't even try to explain it from my viewpoint, because I have noticed over the past several days, that would be a waste of time.

If you move off this board you can find some discussion that police might have made a mistake and it might not be someone that she knew. That is not a real popular theory but it at least does get mentioned .

I have been on city-data which is mostly locals posting and they were tearing each other apart as of 2 weeks ago. It was so bad I did not go back to check it out. That is one site that has many who know either NC or BC, buy association, work, shopping, jogging, etc. It was heavily tipped towards BC did it.

As I have noted I was on the fence until the 6th. I went 99.9% after that date.

[CyberPro]

How would Nancy come up with money for a retainer to start with ?

Dunno,

Maybe she was able to get the ball rolling due to the expected amount of the Equitable Distribution, but I would think that a big gun firm like Tharrington Smith would like to have some money up front.

Possible that her folks gave it to her... again, anything would be pure speculation.

CyberPro

[FullDisclosure]

....And they split up Bella's bedroom set but don't mention anything about Katie's crib or a dresser. If the girls had separate bedrooms, I can't imagine they didn't both have a dresser.

Brad's affidavit #31 states that the girls shared a bedroom but each had their own bed.

[raisincharlie]

Dunno,

Maybe she was able to get the ball rolling due to the expected amount of the Equitable Distribution, but I would think that a big gun firm like Tharrington Smith would like to have some money up front.

Possible that her folks gave it to her... again, anything would be pure speculation.

CyberPro

Credit cards ?

[momto3kids]

Brad's affidavit #31 states that the girls shared a bedroom but each had their own bed.

I know this is no reason to lie, but why would the girls share a bedroom?

The house has 4 bedrooms and a bonus room.

[Daphne69]

I know this is no reason to lie, but why would the girls share a bedroom?

The house has 4 bedrooms and a bonus room.

But one room is for the bike and one of his friends stated that BC had built a desk so he could work from home. So the 4th is a home office?

[MoonFlwr]

I know this is no reason to lie, but why would the girls share a bedroom?

The house has 4 bedrooms and a bonus room.

*shrug*

Some little sisters like to share with their older sisters.

[FullDisclosure]

I know this is no reason to lie, but why would the girls share a bedroom?

The house has 4 bedrooms and a bonus room.

No idea, I just remembered when I read that that BC had stated that the girls shared a room, which I wondered about too, since the house had several bedrooms. Sometimes siblings share a room because they sleep better that way if one is afraid of being alone. Could be a possiblilty...

[The Saint]

I know this is no reason to lie, but why would the girls share a bedroom?

The house has 4 bedrooms and a bonus room.
brad in one bedroom
3 girls in one bedroom
brad's home office
exercise/workout room
girls playroom that had worms it in when they got back from hilton head

there could have been a bedroom that nancy could have slept in but to feel safe, she slept in the room w/ the girls and barracaded/locked the door.

[momto3kids]

No idea, I just remembered when I read that that BC had stated that the girls shared a room, which I wondered about too, since the house had several bedrooms. Sometimes siblings share a room because they sleep better that way if one is afraid of being alone. Could be a possiblilty...

I didn't want my youngest to wake up her sister when she woke up at night. Having 1 up is bad enough, but 2 is a nightmare in my books:D

Bonus room is also up there and the girls are just getting old enough to maybe go up on their own. Downstairs they had 4 rooms to spread out also...

We are all different in how we use the rooms..just wonder why they bunched the girls up and didn't decorate for each child a special room.

[Onescout]

So, could her lawyer sue Brad for her debts?

more than likely, my gosh the irony is astounding.

[The Saint]

is possible that at the party, someone mentioned to nancy that brad was due a hefty bonus in sept and he hadn't mentioned it to nancy? there she had been struggling to feed herself and the girls and he is due a big chunk of money in just a few months.

she could have confronted brad when she returned home that night or threatened that she would go after that bonus in the divorce action.

[The Saint]

I didn't want my youngest to wake up her sister when she woke up at night. Having 1 up is bad enough, but 2 is a nightmare in my books:D

Bonus room is also up there and the girls are just getting old enough to maybe go up on their own. Downstairs they had 4 rooms to spread out also...

We are all different in how we use the rooms..just wonder why they bunched the girls up and didn't decorate for each child a special room.

safety in numbers.

[momto3kids]

Has anyone ever seen a license tag not attached on 1 end? Could any bolt be used to put one back up in place or are they specific bolts to use?

[momto3kids]

safety in numbers.


That is sad to have to do that just to feel safe. I wonder if the girls picked up on it at all?

[MCDRAW]

I really hesitate to even post them on this board because they will be made fun of and kicked to the way side in about 30 seconds after I hit the submit button. This is the only community I know of that is nearly 100% Brad did it.
Local newspapers for instance have comments sections. You might want to go back through some of their old comments sections for the comments about Jessica.

One of the other reasons people are suspious of Jessica is the 911 call. I won't even try to explain it from my viewpoint, because I have noticed over the past several days, that would be a waste of time.

If you move off this board you can find some discussion that police might have made a mistake and it might not be someone that she knew. That is not a real popular theory but it at least does get mentioned .


I'm on the fence with this one. I thought at first he was guilty now I'm not sure. To me so far, it appears to be a case of he said, she said. Not enough evidence. So I'm still with holding judgement. I've learned to just read and not voice too many opinions especially if they are not popular opinions.

[raisincharlie]

Has anyone ever seen a license tag not attached on 1 end? Could any bolt be used to put one back up in place or are they specific bolts to use?

Usually a locking screw works best - can pick one up at a parts store for $0.39.

[raisincharlie]

I'm on the fence with this one. I thought at first he was guilty now I'm not sure. To me so far, it appears to be a case of he said, she said. Not enough evidence. So I'm still with holding judgement. I've learned to just read and not voice too many opinions especially if they are not popular opinions.

McDraw - sorry you feel this way. Actually opposing opinions are great and there are more than a few here. Perhaps the problem is in the defensive approach and accusations rather than the message - just saying. This evening I don't see any of the dumb stuff that went on earlier today.

[Onescout]

I'm on the fence with this one. I thought at first he was guilty now I'm not sure. To me so far, it appears to be a case of he said, she said. Not enough evidence. So I'm still with holding judgement. I've learned to just read and not voice too many opinions especially if they are not popular opinions.

I'm curious why you think the 911 call was suspicious...oops sorry it was Deduction who posted that...

[momto3kids]

Usually a locking screw works best - can pick one up at a parts store for $0.39.

How the heck do you loose one of these? Do some take their tags off to wash their cars?

[Onescout]

How the heck do you loose one of these? Do some take their tags off to wash their cars?

They rust out up north, but I don' t think you have that problem in Cary NC ;)

[raisincharlie]

How the heck do you loose one of these? Do some take their tags off to wash their cars?

Hmmm - I've never lost one - dunno unless someone loosen's it, and I sure don't take the tags off to wash the car.

Loosen - is that even a word :D

[Anderson]

I really hesitate to even post them on this board because they will be made fun of and kicked to the way side in about 30 seconds after I hit the submit button. This is the only community I know of that is nearly 100% Brad did it.
Local newspapers for instance have comments sections. You might want to go back through some of their old comments sections for the comments about Jessica.

One of the other reasons people are suspious of Jessica is the 911 call. I won't even try to explain it from my viewpoint, because I have noticed over the past several days, that would be a waste of time.

If you move off this board you can find some discussion that police might have made a mistake and it might not be someone that she knew. That is not a real popular theory but it at least does get mentioned .

Out of curiosity, what possible motivation would Jessica have for killing Nancy? I can't see this at all.

[momto3kids]

They rust out up north, but I don' t think you have that problem in Cary NC ;)

No, I don't think it is because of rust. Not this car.

[Onescout]

No, I don't think it is because of rust. Not this car.

exactly...

[CyberPro]

Has anyone ever seen a license tag not attached on 1 end? Could any bolt be used to put one back up in place or are they specific bolts to use?

Mom,

I am a bit confused about not being attached on one end. There are 4 holes, one in each corner. Some cars only have the upper 2 holes in the body, some have all 4. They are made to attach the plate, and usually have an insert of some kind, plastic in most cases.

You can attach all 4 with bolts, or only the upper 2, I do not think just attaching the lower 2 would be common. You can use any properly sized and correct length screw to hold it in place. If the screw is too long, it will not be tight enough and will rattle. The insert will usually not allow the screw to be driven deeper than the bottom of the insert.

On the issue of the stickers. There SHOULD be stickers in each upper corner of the plate. One should be the month in which the tag expires, and the other the year of the next expiration. This is simple, but I have seen many folk who just don't get it! They stick them in the incorrect order, or next to each other, or at the bottom of the plate. I would not think it wise to not put any stickers on at all, unless you LIKE speaking to the nice policeman about your ineptitude. One you put those suckers on, it is nearly impossible to get them off again. They REALLY stick. We just got a new plate this year for my wife's 1994 car. This is to replace the plate we have had since we bought the car new, and the stickers had built into quite a pile. I tried to remove some of them a few years ago, and I had to use a razor to scrape them off.

We have never leased a car, although I do have a company car, it still has to be tagged in North Carolina, and it does not show up in my name, but the registration does have my address on it.

CyberPro

[Deduction]

I have been on city-data which is mostly locals posting and they were tearing each other apart as of 2 weeks ago. It was so bad I did not go back to check it out. That is one site that has many who know either NC or BC, buy association, work, shopping, jogging, etc. It was heavily tipped towards BC did it.

As I have noted I was on the fence until the 6th. I went 99.9% after that date.


Have you tried the golo board?
There is some arguing, but the board is more evenly split.
That is where you will find the ones posting about Jessica if you go back far enough. I don't even agree with there complete theory at all, but I do question a few things and her haste in the 911 call is one of them. Perhaps that is not unusual in her group of friends, her neighborhood, but in mine it would be unheard of.

[momto3kids]

exactly...

I wonder why BC's tag was hanging with only 1 bolt a couple of weeks ago if it is held on with a bolt?

[momto3kids]

Have you tried the golo board?
There is some arguing, but the board is more evenly split.
That is where you will find the ones posting about Jessica if you go back far enough. I don't even agree with there complete theory at all, but I do question a few things and her haste in the 911 call is one of them. Perhaps that is not unusual in her group of friends, her neighborhood, but in mine it would be unheard of.


She is a major key player IMO. Just what she knew, only time will tell.