Caylee Anthony 2 year old General Discussion #69

[CW]

Continue posting here I'm going to lock thread #68

THERE WILL BE NO NAME CALLING TOLERATED ON ANYONE INVOLVED IN THIS CASE NOR WILL THERE BE ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION POSTED ON INNOCENT PEOPLE. WE WILL BE GIVING NO FUTHER WARNINGS WE WILL BE TAKING ACTION ON MEMBERS WHO VIOLATE.

[Elley Mae]

thanks windchime

[Dr. Pennypacker]

thanks WC

[blondietx]

Snip...[QUOTE=unravel;2473754]No clue. I seem to recall Tony's friend (who had been staying with him while waiting for his own apartment to be ready), saying the last time he saw Caylee was 6/13, that Casey took her somewhere before they all went out that night, and told him (them?) she was with the nanny when he (they?) asked.

QUOTE]

Didn't someone in the family go on vacation from 6/8-mid Junish? (Juneish?) Maybe Caylee was with them? MAYBE that's what did it - Casey's little bit of complete freedom while dating the man of her dreams? Anyway, I am not sure if she was living at home by 6/15. I don't know if that has been established or not. But, according to Cindy & George, they at least stayed the night there. Doesn't necessarily mean she was living there. Also just because they said she spent the night doesn't mean she did!

I also agree that the timeline got majorly messed up from the get go and it's possible everyone else got their weeks confused because of the fact? Making it a week earlier than it really was - I believe Casey started that mess!

[Amster]

Cindy screwed up the date of Fathers Day.....

[amandab]

Cindy screwed up the date of Fathers Day.....

How so?

[FLbeachdawg]

To the person who posted the photo about the dogtags in the photo...NO...can't zoom in. When I bring it into photoshop and zoom in, it's just pixels. The resolution is too low.

[Cakegirl]

Has it been said if George ever came back home today? Wasn't the video of him driving off sooo angry shot this morning??

[blondietx]

Cindy screwed up the date of Fathers Day.....

I think this is in reply to how the dates are messed up, even in the search warrant. Cindy thought 6/8 was Father's Day instead of 6/15. So, everyone else went with that date, to some extent, when establishing a timeline for this whole mess. Is that what you are referring to?

[Sparky]

I just came by the lake they're diving in. OPD and OCSD is there. I did see a wrecker pulling out a small light blue car covered in mud. The lake is down from the subdivision where the Anthony's live on Chickasaw Rd. I am not saying this has anything to do with the Anthony case. Just stating what I saw. Watch the news. They were there also.

[PomMom12]

Has it been said if George ever came back home today? Wasn't the video of him driving off sooo angry shot this morning??

I haven't heard if he's come back to the house but the video was shot this morning.

[lovesbooks]

Am I able to speculate on what I think happened?
I don't think she has a mental disorder, as such. I think she is immature and stuck in adolescent wants, behavior and reactions. Reminds me of some teens I know.
I think her parenting skills were minimal and when left with a child without GM to help she couldn't handle it. I think it was an accident through neglect...hot car, pool ? She was so panicked that she had to do something rash.
Remember that she said she didn't want to tell her father that she took the gas cans how do you tell him that you....

[Sleuthster]

I wonder if it was registered to the nanny? maybe Casey went as far as to register a car in the name.

[wishingtree]

I think this is in reply to how the dates are messed up, even in the search warrant. Cindy thought 6/8 was Father's Day instead of 6/15. So, everyone else went with that date, to some extent, when figuring out when establishing a timeline for this whole mess. Is that what you are referring to?

I wonder if they have a sign in sheet at the home Cindy's father lives in that would confirm what date she and Caylee were there and the video was filmed. I know that some do.

[tiredblondy]

I wonder if The National Enquirer could help with this case. I'm not kidding. I'm serious. They can sure find hidden things.

[Sleuthster]

I haven't heard if he's come back to the house but the video was shot this morning.

It has been rather quiet at the anthony home. I am guessing that Cindy has decided to stay inside. I am suprised George is not back though.

[blondietx]

I wonder if they have a sign in sheet at the home Cindy's father lives in that would confirm what date she and Caylee were there and the video was filmed. I know that some do.

I know that's been discussed. Although, I really don't know what the outcome was. I think there was a sign in sheet and it was just Cindy & Caylee visiting that day. I think.

[Cakegirl]

I haven't heard if he's come back to the house but the video was shot this morning.

Yeah, I was wondering if Cindy & George were able to scare off any of the camera guys. If not, then those guys better be outside doing this... :truce:

[chrisg]

Sorry, but I'm just not on board w/ people who are sociopathic not being responsible or not being able 'help themseves' w/ regard to their behavior. I think in extreme cases of psychosis there may be exceptions that fall correctly under an insanity defense but classifying everyone who does not act 'normally' as being mentally ill is a slippery slope that leaves no room for personal responsibility and would leave prisons empty, imo.

B/c the problem is that these people--like Casey--come to our attention b/c of their alleged crimes. She is not on our radar screen b/c she lacks empathy for her child--but b/c she is the main suspect in her child's possible homicide which is far worse than robbery and illegal drug activity although it seems Casey may have dabbled in these crimes as well.

And the possibility of giving Casey a few years in a mental institution where she could be 'helped' if she is found guilty of murdering her daughter would be an extreme injustice to Caylee, imo. Some people are just plain broken and evil as far as I'm concerned. They cannot be fixed and they need to be kept locked away in prison where they can't harm others--which is what prisons were built for--to protect the innocent and law abiding members of our society from the criminally inclined.

[FLbeachdawg]

It has been rather quiet at the anthony home. I am guessing that Cindy has decided to stay inside. I am suprised George is not back though.

Are you talking about the video where Cindy is talking and Lee pulls her away?

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

[Cakegirl]

I wonder if they have a sign in sheet at the home Cindy's father lives in that would confirm what date she and Caylee were there and the video was filmed. I know that some do.

Yes, there was a sign-in sheet at the nursing/retirement home. Cindy flew off the handle when LE said they would check into it... she wanted to confirm it herself. I'm sure LE did confirm it though.

[not_my_kids]

I tried with that picture with dog tags too. All I get is pixels.

[wishingtree]

Yes, there was a sign-in sheet at the nursing/retirement home. Cindy flew off the handle when LE said they would check into it... she wanted to confirm it herself. I'm sure LE did confirm it though.

Thanks for the info. I missed that.

[christine2448]

For those of you unsure who is in charge on the forums, please see here.

View Forum Leaders (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showgroups.php)

Seems some are confused.

[Elley Mae]

Sorry, but I'm just not on board w/ people who are sociopathic not being responsible or not being able 'help themseves' w/ regard to their behavior. I think in extreme cases of psychosis there may be exceptions that fall correctly under an insanity defense but classifying everyone who does not act 'normally' as being mentally ill is a slippery slope that leaves no room for personal responsibility and would leave prisons empty, imo.

B/c the problem is that these people--like Casey--come to our attention b/c of their alleged crimes. She is not on our radar screen b/c she lacks empathy for her child--but b/c she is the main suspect in her child's possible homicide which is far worse than robbery and illegal drug activity although it seems Casey may have dabbled in these crimes as well.

And the possibility of giving Casey a few years in a mental institution where she could be 'helped' if she is found guilty of murdering her daughter would be an extreme injustice to Caylee, imo. Some people are just plain broken and evil as far as I'm concerned. They cannot be fixed and they need to be kept locked away in prison where they can't harm others--which is what prisons were built for--to protect the innocent and law abiding members of our society from the criminally inclined.

Thank you I like prisons too. And I believe in the death penalty as well, I think that some people are just broke and in Casey's case she's broke.

[RR0004]

I wonder if they have a sign in sheet at the home Cindy's father lives in that would confirm what date she and Caylee were there and the video was filmed. I know that some do.
Yes...and it was checked hopefully by now.

[Sleuthster]

Are you talking about the video where Cindy is talking and Lee pulls her away?

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

Did that happen today? I only saw the George/Cindy episode this morning.
No I was just generalizing that we havent heard much today.

[RR0004]

For those of you unsure who is in charge on the forums, please see here.

View Forum Leaders (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showgroups.php)

Seems some are confused.
Thanks Christine. I think they ate my post.

[bluedevil21]

as for bail...

The decision regarding a proper bail amount lies with the discretion of the trial court. Casey can ask for her bail to be reduced, that is well within her rights. And if she can post it, the state would be unable to detain her before trial. At the same time, she has the burden of proof to demonstrate why it should be lowered. Until she starts talking about her missing daughter, she will lose any bail argument, in my opinion.

Keep in mind that the right to bail is based on the presumption of innocence. Casey is not acting like an innocent party here. Of course, all defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty; however, she is not helping her case at all. The primary purpose of an appearance bond is to secure the presence of the accused at trial on the offense charged. Although she has no money and lives with her parents, I see Casey running as quickly as possible to, like, Mexico.

In terms of setting an actual number for bail, certain factors are normally considered: 1) the bail is set sufficiently high enough to give reasonable assurance that the court orders will be complied with; 2) the power to require bail cannot be so ridiculous as to act as an instrument of oppression; 3) the nature of the offense and the circumstances under which it was committed are considered; 4) the ability to make bail is regarded; 5) the future safety of a victim of the alleged offense and the community shall be considered.

Other pertinent factors include: work record (hello, Universal!), family and community ties (the economy in Orlando bars and the business at Fusian have definitely subsided since her arrest?), length of residency in the county, prior criminal record, conformity with previous bond conditions, other outstanding bonds, and aggravating factors involved in the offense (like the fact that this is her own f-ing daughter that she refuses to answer questions about).

for further info, this report on bail decisions pertains to NY courts, but it is also relevant for all jurisdictions: http://www.cjareports.org/reports/bail3.pdf

[OneLostGrl]

Sorry, but I'm just not on board w/ people who are sociopathic not being responsible or not being able 'help themseves' w/ regard to their behavior. I think in extreme cases of psychosis there may be exceptions that fall correctly under an insanity defense but classifying everyone who does not act 'normally' as being mentally ill is a slippery slope that leaves no room for personal responsibility and would leave prisons empty, imo.

B/c the problem is that these people--like Casey--come to our attention b/c of their alleged crimes. She is not on our radar screen b/c she lacks empathy for her child--but b/c she is the main suspect in her child's possible homicide which is far worse than robbery and illegal drug activity although it seems Casey may have dabbled in these crimes as well.

And the possibility of giving Casey a few years in a mental institution where she could be 'helped' if she is found guilty of murdering her daughter would be an extreme injustice to Caylee, imo. Some people are just plain broken and evil as far as I'm concerned. They cannot be fixed and they need to be kept locked away in prison where they can't harm others--which is what prisons were built for--to protect the innocent and law abiding members of our society from the criminally inclined.

:clap::clap::clap:

[RoseRed]

I know that's been discussed. Although, I really don't know what the outcome was. I think there was a sign in sheet and it was just Cindy & Caylee visiting that day. I think.

That information is on the warrant and yes the sign sheet was checked by LE and was June 15th.

[CW]

knock it off i've had to just delete close to 30 post. I will give no futher warning stay on topic if you feel the need to chit chat go to the jury room. I'm not into game playing and the guilty one's know who you are. Stay on topic!!!!!!!

[Benji]

Sorry, but I'm just not on board w/ people who are sociopathic not being responsible or not being able 'help themseves' w/ regard to their behavior. I think in extreme cases of psychosis there may be exceptions that fall correctly under an insanity defense but classifying everyone who does not act 'normally' as being mentally ill is a slippery slope that leaves no room for personal responsibility and would leave prisons empty, imo.

B/c the problem is that these people--like Casey--come to our attention b/c of their alleged crimes. She is not on our radar screen b/c she lacks empathy for her child--but b/c she is the main suspect in her child's possible homicide which is far worse than robbery and illegal drug activity although it seems Casey may have dabbled in these crimes as well.

And the possibility of giving Casey a few years in a mental institution where she could be 'helped' if she is found guilty of murdering her daughter would be an extreme injustice to Caylee, imo. Some people are just plain broken and evil as far as I'm concerned. They cannot be fixed and they need to be kept locked away in prison where they can't harm others--which is what prisons were built for--to protect the innocent and law abiding members of our society from the criminally inclined.

I understand what you are saying, but the thing is, Casey was once a little girl too, just like Caylee, and for whatever reason (and most of us think that it's due to parental responsibility) now she's "broke"! Now, I'm NOT trying to excuse her or take any responsibility from her for the mess she's in now, but if she has something wrong with her, or if it's even just that she was raised to be the way she is, then it just seems a bit unfair to me that suddenly she is being hung out to dry ALL BY HERSELF in this! I DO NOT condone the things she has done, I REPEAT, I DO NOT CONDONE THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE! But it seems that a lot of people are saying that since she has some "disorder" or that she wasn't raised to behave differently than she does, then she should just be tossed aside and forgotten! I just think that is sooo sad! It makes me almost as sad for her as it does for little Caylee. I know that Caylee is a complete innocent and doesn't deserve any of this, but if Casey is so screwed up by no fault of her own, then she (IMO) needs help instead of hatred! And as always, this is JMHO

[FLbeachdawg]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

[whiteangora]

Bluedevil21, I didn't quote to save space, just wanted to let you know I
appreciate your legal expertise, always helpful.

[GameTheory]

So she wants to go to court for her bail?
So this is why she is bullying her parents and brother now and refusing to see them. Because they are not selling everything they have to get their selfish daughter our of prison.

I know a lot of people still believe Casey will ''break'' and confess out of ''guilt''. IT'S NEVER HAPPENING PEOPLE. I know you still hold on that hope because it is the only way for Caylee to come home, alive or not.

But there is no remorce, no suicide, no confession. Not happening!! It is up to police now to build a case against her. If they are lucky the physical evidence might give them a clue where Caylee might be or by chance someone will find the little girl's body at a river, in a lake, in some woods.

This case has a long way to go and the way is only one: Casey will be on trial for killing her daughter. As soon as the police gather whatever is out there to gather, and without a body even, the will charge her with the murder with circumstantial evidence. The LE did the same with Scott Peterson. And just like Scott Peterson (still looking for that van that might have kidnapped Lacy) :liar: Casey will keep blaming a nanny for kidnapping her kid. Just like Geragos said his client even though is a b2stard for cheating on his wife he did not kill her, Casey's lawyer will say even though Casey was an irresponsible mother who did something foolish, nevertheless she is not a murderer. Just wait for it.

If the police does not find a body, the grandparents will never find out exactly what happened. They will know WHO did it, but not exactly HOW or WHY

[MagnoliaMom]

IF this is the case, and Casey is actually a Sociopath and doesn't have the CAPABILITY to care about her daughter, then why is everyone so upset with her? What I mean is this...if she is INCAPABLE of the same actions and emotions of a normal person, then that can't be held against her really can it? If she COULD have the same emotions, then I'm pretty sure that she WOULD, so how can we hold her accountable, and be so upset with her if she is actually UNABLE to be different than what she is? - snip from benji

but being incable of normal emotions doesn't make one incable of understandanding right and wrong. if your legs were cut off you still would be able to understand the "don't walk on the grass sign" even though you couldn't walk on the grass.

[PomMom12]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

Yeah right. She loves the attention too much.

[SuziQ]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

Thanks, I can't listen, my audio is on the fritz. Interesting that the stations all ran it anyways.

[bluedevil21]

I understand what you are saying, but the thing is, Casey was once a little girl too, just like Caylee, and for whatever reason (and most of us think that it's due to parental responsibility) now she's "broke"! Now, I'm NOT trying to excuse her or take any responsibility from her for the mess she's in now, but if she has something wrong with her, or if it's even just that she was raised to be the way she is, then it just seems a bit unfair to me that suddenly she is being hung out to dry ALL BY HERSELF in this! I DO NOT condone the things she has done, I REPEAT, I DO NOT CONDONE THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE! But it seems that a lot of people are saying that since she has some "disorder" or that she wasn't raised to behave differently than she does, then she should just be tossed aside and forgotten! I just think that is sooo sad! It makes me almost as sad for her as it does for little Caylee. I know that Caylee is a complete innocent and doesn't deserve any of this, but if Casey is so screwed up by no fault of her own, then she (IMO) needs help instead of hatred! And as always, this is JMHO

i agree with what you are saying...to a certain degree. if casey needs help, then by all means, she should get it. if she is too sick to actually have the capacity to know right from wrong, then she deserves professional care. i cannot, however, be as sad for casey as caylee. casey is a grown woman, she makes her own decisions, she has free will and choice. her parents, while a tad crazy, are not evil (from what we know, at least). she has lied to everyone for years. she has no discipline. i really don't think casey is, by definition, insane. i think she is selfish and takes no responsibility for her actions. this time, though, she may not be able to help it when the state imposes responsibility directly upon her...

[CASuzk]

Ah yes, one the video she says she wants things done 'respectfully', hasn't that ship sailed?
OK, I do feel sort of sorry for them.

[OneLostGrl]

I understand what you are saying, but the thing is, Casey was once a little girl too, just like Caylee, and for whatever reason (and most of us think that it's due to parental responsibility) now she's "broke"! Now, I'm NOT trying to excuse her or take any responsibility from her for the mess she's in now, but if she has something wrong with her, or if it's even just that she was raised to be the way she is, then it just seems a bit unfair to me that suddenly she is being hung out to dry ALL BY HERSELF in this! I DO NOT condone the things she has done, I REPEAT, I DO NOT CONDONE THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE! But it seems that a lot of people are saying that since she has some "disorder" or that she wasn't raised to behave differently than she does, then she should just be tossed aside and forgotten! I just think that is sooo sad! It makes me almost as sad for her as it does for little Caylee. I know that Caylee is a complete innocent and doesn't deserve any of this, but if Casey is so screwed up by no fault of her own, then she (IMO) needs help instead of hatred! And as always, this is JMHO


I would love to get into a discussion with you about this but it really does belong in the mental illness thread not here in the "general discussion" thread. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do.. I'm simply trying to keep this thread from getting clogged up.

Again, I would love to discuss the entire nature/nurture and punishment/treatment issues you bring up- I have lots of opinions on 'em and could talk about it for weeks! So I hope I see ya over on the other thread!
:)

[Elley Mae]

Was that Lee that grabed Cindy and drug her into the garage.

[Tori2]

i agree with what you are saying...to a certain degree. if casey needs help, then by all means, she should get it. if she is too sick to actually have the capacity to know right from wrong, then she deserves professional care. i cannot, however, be as sad for casey as caylee. casey is a grown woman, she makes her own decisions, she has free will and choice. her parents, while a tad crazy, are not evil (from what we know, at least). she has lied to everyone for years. she has no discipline. i really don't think casey is, by definition, insane. i think she is selfish and takes no responsibility for her actions. this time, though, she may not be able to help it when the state imposes responsibility directly upon her...

Amen!

[headndownstream]

I wonder if The National Enquirer could help with this case. I'm not kidding. I'm serious. They can sure find hidden things.
The Nat Inquirer was the team that broke John Edwards affair. I hope they are in Orlando investigating too.

[OneLostGrl]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

thanks for the link, I was hoping someone would post it!

[DeltaDawn]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html


TY for that link. I think Cindy, George and Lee have been doing the best they can under the circumstances. Why in the world LE waited so long to take all this evidence Cindy has is perlexing?

[SuziQ]

From Fox35

Links: LIVE: News Crew Cam (http://javascript<b></b>:openWindowLink("http://media.myfoxorlando.com/live/mobilecam2.html", "directories,location,toolbar,menubar,scrollbars,re sizable",755,472);)

ETA: Not sure how "live" this cam is. The guys have been stuck in mid stride for awhile.

[not_my_kids]

Was that Lee that grabed Cindy and drug her into the garage.
Was Lee even back from the failed visit with Casey at that point? I didn't think he was even there when the blow-up happened.

[FLbeachdawg]

Thanks, I can't listen, my audio is on the fritz. Interesting that the stations all ran it anyways.

Well so far, the only station airing George fuming with the press was CH 6. Wesh Ch2 that aired the interview of Cindy saying that anyone who airs George reflecting his emotions will lose further interviews with her has NOT added it to their website.

[wishingtree]

Was that Lee that grabed Cindy and drug her into the garage.

I think so. It looked like him from behind and that was his car that pulled into the driveway as they were speaking.

[Benji]

Was that Lee that grabed Cindy and drug her into the garage.

I think it was. They just can't shut her up can they? LOL

[StealthTheory]

I honestly feel that most sociopath's are like pedophiles. There is no helping them, there is only protecting the innocent from them.

[PomMom12]

What did Cindy mean on the video when she said that George was angry because "things were coming to a head"?

[Elley Mae]

George's truck was not visible in the garage

[Amster]

That was Lee that pulled Cindy away.

[wishingtree]

George's truck was not visible in the garage

I noticed that. Does anyone know if he is at the volunteer booth where he hands out fliers most days?

[chrisg]

I understand what you are saying, but the thing is, Casey was once a little girl too, just like Caylee, and for whatever reason (and most of us think that it's due to parental responsibility) now she's "broke"! Now, I'm NOT trying to excuse her or take any responsibility from her for the mess she's in now, but if she has something wrong with her, or if it's even just that she was raised to be the way she is, then it just seems a bit unfair to me that suddenly she is being hung out to dry ALL BY HERSELF in this! I DO NOT condone the things she has done, I REPEAT, I DO NOT CONDONE THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE! But it seems that a lot of people are saying that since she has some "disorder" or that she wasn't raised to behave differently than she does, then she should just be tossed aside and forgotten! I just think that is sooo sad! It makes me almost as sad for her as it does for little Caylee. I know that Caylee is a complete innocent and doesn't deserve any of this, but if Casey is so screwed up by no fault of her own, then she (IMO) needs help instead of hatred! And as always, this is JMHO

I don't believe sociopaths are created by their families or their upbringing therefore I cannot under any circumstances view Casey as "screwed up by no fault of her own". And what 'help' would you suggest she get? Just because there are psychological diagnoses that can classify her behavior doesn't mean that there is a cure for it. And it certainly doesn't mean she is not responsible for her actions--which IS what you are saying, IMO, despite your protests to the contrary.

B/c everyone was once 'little' for heaven's sake. It does not mean that they are not responsible for crimes they commit as an adult.

And I am a liberal who does NOT believe in the death penalty. I do, however, believe in justice, accountability and personal responsibility.

ETA: Sorry, I'm a new poster. Didn't realize this was the wrong thread to discuss this in.

[SuziQ]

Well so far, the only station airing George fuming with the press was CH 6. Wesh Ch2 that aired the interview of Cindy saying that anyone who airs George reflecting his emotions will lose further interviews with her has NOT added it to their website.

WFTV has it as well. I don't think I've seen it on Fox.

[bluedevil21]

just looked this up, as different states have different legal definitions for insanity. florida is more complex than many - here, you need: 1) to have a mental disease AND 2) not know right from wrong or not know what you were doing during the alleged act.

FLORIDA Title XLVI CRIMES
Chapter 775 DEFINITIONS; GENERAL PENALTIES; REGISTRATION OF CRIMINALS

775.027 Insanity defense.--

(1) AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE.--All persons are presumed to be sane. It is an affirmative defense to a criminal prosecution that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant was insane. Insanity is established when:

(a) The defendant had a mental infirmity, disease, or defect; and

(b) Because of this condition, the defendant:

1. Did not know what he or she was doing or its consequences; or

2. Although the defendant knew what he or she was doing and its consequences, the defendant did not know that what he or she was doing was wrong.

Mental infirmity, disease, or defect does not constitute a defense of insanity except as provided in this subsection.

(2) BURDEN OF PROOF.--The defendant has the burden of proving the defense of insanity by clear and convincing evidence.

http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/775.027.html

[Amster]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.html

All I can say is "no comment"

I wish the media would only talk about Caylee. Just ignore Cindy, George and Lee. Have a big pic of Caylee and talk about how she needs to be found.

[Amster]

WFTV has it as well. I don't think I've seen it on Fox.

Fox cable has shown it several times.

[Ladybass0711]

Originally posted by Suzi

Personality disorders and considered incurable right? A case of a narcissist locally had her own shrink tell the court that she's incurable, and only incarceration might help her.



Not always the case here. Take me for instance I have been diagnosed with Multiple personality disorder/Disociative Identity Disorder. Although there are no meds that will cure it, It can be cured with intensive therapy. So it is cureble, just takes time and energy.

[PomMom12]

Fox cable has shown it several times.

Fox has definitely aired the video. I've heard it but I can't see it because I'm listening to XM radio.

[mimi56]

WFTV has it as well. I don't think I've seen it on Fox.

Yes, i saw it on Fox earlier today.

[ketel0ne]

Can anyone point me to a still picture .jpg or .gif of Casey's Pontiac? The ones at the beginning of videos on the sites aren't really what I am looking for.

[suspicious mind]

In ref to the search warrant info, the email that Lee provided LE that was supposedly to "back up" Casey's story of being an event planner...it came from a fake email address. Can you fake a domain name? Who would have faked an email to help her, and can LE trace the ip address and charge whomever it really came from with anything?

I think Casey probably did get ZFG's info by looking in the car windows at that apt complex, she probably had a work id or something with her name on it that was visible through the windows, and thats where she came up with the name/apt info. Unfortunately Casey had no way of knowing ZFG was only looking at the apt, and ZFG was in the wrong place/wrong time.

One more thing, in a jail house call with Lee, she says she was at Universal but not for work/not for fun. Lee says, ok, gotcha. Any thoughts on this?

[GameTheory]

The inability for empathy and remorse has nothing to do with the ABILITY to separate from right or wrong. Please don't confuse the two. Also remember there are plenty of sociopaths-narcissists out there who are successful businessmen and businesswomen politicians especially, actors, etc. The certain levels of sociopathy each may dispaly actually help them to be high achievers in these difficult professions. It doesn't make them murderers or abusers. It is important for people to understand this difference.

Not even Casey's defence team will dare to try such a strategy. Casey demonstrated with a lot of behaviors and actions that she knew exactly that what she might have done was wrong. Being unable to feel bad about it is something else but has nothing to do with her being fully responsible for her actions.

[wishingtree]

NE was able to get a lot of very valid info on Drew Peterson..simply by paying people to talk and tell their story.

I agree with you. While I don't like a lot of tactics that the tabliods use when reporting useless gossip, they have been very helpful in the past for finding out useful information in high profile cases (especially the NE). I'm guessing that since this case has made the cover of People Magazine the tabloids will start showing interest too. And since they are willing to throw money around for information, I'm sure many of Casey's "club friends" and some of the less than savory characters she's been around would be glad to profit from sharing anything they know. But it would need to be handled with some level of responsibility so that every nut comes out of the woodwork with a fake story just to make a few $$$. I also worry that the names of the innocent people who have already been harmed by Casey's likes (such as ZG and JO's family) would be splashed across the supermarket headlines and cause more pain to those individuals.

[lilacwine]

In ref to the search warrant info, the email that Lee provided LE that was supposedly to "back up" Casey's story of being an event planner...it came from a fake email address. Can you fake a domain name? Who would have faked an email to help her, and can LE trace the ip address and charge whomever it really came from with anything?

I think Casey probably did get ZFG's info by looking in the car windows at that apt complex, she probably had a work id or something with her name on it that was visible through the windows, and thats where she came up with the name/apt info. Unfortunately Casey had no way of knowing ZFG was only looking at the apt, and ZFG was in the wrong place/wrong time.

One more thing, in a jail house call with Lee, she says she was at Universal but not for work/not for fun. Lee says, ok, gotcha. Any thoughts on this?

Last night...
Someone here posted two types of websites that explain how to do emails from bogus addresses.

I'm sure they can be found through some backtracking 24 hours or so on the threads... sorry I don't remember more.

[Elley Mae]

Suspicious mind I wondered about that to, not for work/not for fun

[not_my_kids]

In ref to the search warrant info, the email that Lee provided LE that was supposedly to "back up" Casey's story of being an event planner...it came from a fake email address. Can you fake a domain name? Who would have faked an email to help her, and can LE trace the ip address and charge whomever it really came from with anything?

Snipped, respectfully.
Maybe one of the cyber crimes. I don't think that they could get them for obstruction of justice or the like because at that time, there was no investigation going on.

[SuziQ]

http://www.wesh.com/news/17113783/detail.html

(snip)
Casey's boyfriend, Tony Lazarro, spoke to WESH 2 on Friday.

Lazarro is the one person that Casey pleaded to speak with when she called her family's home from jail.

His cell phone now has a message on it saying that he has no comment for members of the media.

When Lazarro spoke to WESH 2, he said he is surprised by the amount of media attention he is getting. He said he hasn't spoken to Casey at least since her arrest, and that he is considering filing a lawsuit for protection against the media.

[DaisyBelle]

If Caseys clothes smelt like smoke then why didn't Cindy throw them away like the stuffed animals?

[OneLostGrl]

The inability for empathy and remorse has nothing to do with the ABILITY to separate from right or wrong. Please don't confuse the two. Also remember there are plenty of sociopaths-narcissists out there who are successful businessmen and businesswomen politicians especially, actors, etc. The certain levels of sociopathy each may dispaly actually help them to be high achievers in these difficult professions. It doesn't make them murderers or abusers. It is important for people to understand this difference.

Not even Casey's defence team will dare to try such a strategy. Casey demonstrated with a lot of behaviors and actions that she knew exactly that what she might have done was wrong. Being unable to feel bad about it is something else but has nothing to do with her being fully responsible for her actions.

It's nice to see someone who knows whatthey are talking about. Thank you!

Stigma sucks

[christine2448]

For our wonderful posters who need a place to go 'off topic' and 'chit/chat'.

Hope this helps. :D Off Topic/Chit Chat (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68696)

[LI_Mom]

I honestly feel that most sociopath's are like pedophiles. There is no helping them, there is only protecting the innocent from them.

I tend to agree with you.

Let's face it.... the prisons are FILLED with people who have all sorts of mental health problems.... personality disorders.

Well adjusted people are leading productive & almost always address problems BEFORE they become matters that law enforcement must deal with.

If Casey did not end up in jail because she 'lost' her daughter, I think her life would have continued to spin out of control with more & more criminal behaviors.

We already know she stole from her family & friends.... she most likely would have graduated to stealing from strangers (if she wasn't at that point yet).

Casey was on a road to nowhere... she just arrived earlier than expected.

[lilacwine]

What would the grounds of that be?

Just say no comment....


I don't think charges can be filed against the media... unless they've crossed some lines that have not been made public. And, if they have he should call the police.

[SuziQ]

If Caseys clothes smelt like smoke then why didn't Cindy throw them away like the stuffed animals?

Casey's clothes smelled worse. Cindy said they smelled like the car. And she said the car smelled like a dead body.

[not_my_kids]

I think that we can safely say that the car that was found in the lake near the Anthony's house was not related. According to WESH, there were 2 cars found and they are still working on getting the other one out of the water.
Thanks SuzieQ for the link.

[Benji]

I don't believe sociopaths are created by their families or their upbringing therefore I cannot under any circumstances view Casey as "screwed up by no fault of her own". And what 'help' would you suggest she get? Just because there are psychological diagnoses that can classify her behavior doesn't mean that there is a cure for it. And it certainly doesn't mean she is not responsible for her actions--which IS what you are saying, IMO, despite your protests to the contrary.

B/c everyone was once 'little' for heaven's sake. It does not mean that they are not responsible for crimes they commit as an adult.

And I am a liberal who does NOT believe in the death penalty. I do, however, believe in justice, accountability and personal responsibility.

Well of course you are free to believe whatever you wish, the fact remains however that I am NOT making excuses for her, nor am I saying that she should not pay for whatever sins she may have committed. I would question you on your theory that I don't believe sociopaths are created by their families or their upbringing therefore I cannot under any circumstances view Casey as "screwed up by no fault of her own".If that is the case then, just exactly HOW did she get to be the way she is? There has to be a reason for it, and if she is actually a sociopath, then are you saying that she was BORN that way? If so, then she still had something thrust upon her through no fault of her own! What I'm trying to say here is that unless she is just a normal human being like the rest of us, and she has CHOSEN FOR HERSELF to behave the way she does, then there is reason for some compassion for her. Obviously the little girl didn't deserve any of this, she's TOTALLY innocent, but according to what is going on with Casey, there could be room to say that she isn't completely culpable in her behavior either! If you teach a child to lie and have no feelings from childhood, then they will grow up to think of that as the normal way to behave. How could someone like that be held totally accountable for their behavior then?

[suspicious mind]

If Caseys clothes smelt like smoke then why didn't Cindy throw them away like the stuffed animals?

I thought she said the clothes smelled like "pizza"?:waitasec:

[wishingtree]

Last night...
Someone here posted two types of websites that explain how to do emails from bogus addresses.

I'm sure they can be found through some backtracking 24 hours or so on the threads... sorry I don't remember more.

I read that post too. I have to admit I was surprised by it. My fiance is a professional in the tech business and knows a lot about hacker sites and can find crazy things online that I had no idea existed, but even he was dumbfounded last night when I asked him about the fake domain names for the email addresses. Casey must have really known a lot about little "tricks" available on the internet which I find interesting.

[DaisyBelle]

Casey's clothes smelled worse. Cindy said they smelled like the car. And she said the car smelled like a dead body.

Oh it changed again? Bodies, smoke, pizza.. all the same

[Ladybass0711]

I thought she said the clothes smelled like "pizza"?:waitasec:

She said the clothes smelled like the car.

[robotdog]

I thought she said the clothes smelled like "pizza"?:waitasec:


i put a pizza in a trunk 2 weeks ago.

it doesnt smell like a dead body


it smells like an old pizza

these people are nuts

[DaisyBelle]

She said the clothes smelled like the car.

in the interview she just gave she said the clothes came from Tonys apartment and smelt like smoke so she washed them

[RoseRed]

I think it was. They just can't shut her up can they? LOL

Every thing she said made perfect sense and she does have a right to speak. Bless you Cindy

[Elley Mae]

She said the clothes smelled like the car.

I can put my clothes in the car for a few days and I don't think I would have to wash them.

[CitizenKim]

[QUOTE=GameTheory;2473962]
I know a lot of people still believe Casey will ''break'' and confess out of ''guilt''. IT'S NEVER HAPPENING PEOPLE. I know you still hold on that hope because it is the only way for Caylee to come home, alive or not.
/QUOTE] snipped

I'm still hoping she will crack. She really likes storytelling and getting attention. Maybe she will think she can "explain" it away as an accident -and get people on her side again. She seems to grossly overestimate her own intelligence so let's hope she spins another tale.

[Girlrilla]

How would the clothes smell like dead body unless she were rolling around with a dead body? The trunk smelled like a dead body, maybe not the entire car? I think the clothing probably smelled like mostly smoke after being at Tony's, or Tony being in Casey's car smoking. Just a thought. I guess I could see the clothes smelling like decomposition if she was carrying a decaying body around...but I dunno. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around someone dying and stinking so quickly all in one day. How soon do people get to a funeral home to be preserved for a funeral after death? It's not always so quickly...I wish I was in forensics, this kind of stuff I really wish I knew more about.

[Lucy's mom]

My thoughts exactly. There were no other times that she even mentioned anything smelling like smoke. Sheesh..what does it take to get an honest answer from her. Shows the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

[RoseRed]

In ref to the search warrant info, the email that Lee provided LE that was supposedly to "back up" Casey's story of being an event planner...it came from a fake email address. Can you fake a domain name? Who would have faked an email to help her, and can LE trace the ip address and charge whomever it really came from with anything?

I think Casey probably did get ZFG's info by looking in the car windows at that apt complex, she probably had a work id or something with her name on it that was visible through the windows, and thats where she came up with the name/apt info. Unfortunately Casey had no way of knowing ZFG was only looking at the apt, and ZFG was in the wrong place/wrong time.

One more thing, in a jail house call with Lee, she says she was at Universal but not for work/not for fun. Lee says, ok, gotcha. Any thoughts on this?

Yes it can be traced.

[bluedevil21]

Well of course you are free to believe whatever you wish, the fact remains however that I am NOT making excuses for her, nor am I saying that she should not pay for whatever sins she may have committed. I would question you on your theory that I don't believe sociopaths are created by their families or their upbringing therefore I cannot under any circumstances view Casey as "screwed up by no fault of her own".If that is the case then, just exactly HOW did she get to be the way she is? There has to be a reason for it, and if she is actually a sociopath, then are you saying that she was BORN that way? If so, then she still had something thrust upon her through no fault of her own! What I'm trying to say here is that unless she is just a normal human being like the rest of us, and she has CHOSEN FOR HERSELF to behave the way she does, then there is reason for some compassion for her. Obviously the little girl didn't deserve any of this, she's TOTALLY innocent, but according to what is going on with Casey, there could be room to say that she isn't completely culpable in her behavior either! If you teach a child to lie and have no feelings from childhood, then they will grow up to think of that as the normal way to behave. How could someone like that be held totally accountable for their behavior then?

but no one taught casey "to lie and have no feelings from childhood." and regardless if her parents weren't mom and dad of the year, you learn basic ethics from school and society and life in general. i dont think you need to be taught, "dont kill your kid" in order to be held to such a standard. even if the death was negligently caused, i think an individual can be held totally accountable for their behavior. in fact, i think they should be.

i am also a liberal and i dont believe in the death penalty. but i do believe in the basic interests of justice. and so far, justice has not been served in any way whatsoever, other than casey missing a few hotttt parties.

(on another note, tony cannot sue the media. if they were harassing him, maybe. if they were purposely misquoting him or defaming him, possibly. but he has no cause of action here. he is involved, it is a matter of public interest, sucks for him...)

[SweetDreamOfYou]

How would the clothes smell like dead body unless she were rolling around with a dead body? The trunk smelled like a dead body, maybe not the entire car? I think the clothing probably smelled like mostly smoke after being at Tony's, or Tony being in Casey's car smoking. Just a thought. I guess I could see the clothes smelling like decomposition if she was carrying a decaying body around...but I dunno. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around someone dying and stinking so quickly all in one day. How soon do people get to a funeral home to be preserved for a funeral after death? It's not always so quickly...I wish I was in forensics, this kind of stuff I really wish I knew more about.

decomp smell is pervasive
it gets into everyting
if the smell was in the car anyting in the car would smell the same

i think the original clothes are gone
really hard to get that smell out

[impatientredhead]

[QUOTE=GameTheory;2473962]
I know a lot of people still believe Casey will ''break'' and confess out of ''guilt''. IT'S NEVER HAPPENING PEOPLE. I know you still hold on that hope because it is the only way for Caylee to come home, alive or not.
/QUOTE] snipped

I'm still hoping she will crack. She really likes storytelling and getting attention. Maybe she will think she can "explain" it away as an accident -and get people on her side again. She seems to grossly overestimate her own intelligence so let's hope she spins another tale.

She is not going to crack, the investigators have even commented on how nonchalant she has been through really tough interogations. Nothing other than an occasional laugh. The more time that passes before (if) they find Caylee the better her case gets. I know they can convict without a body but it is much harder. Even if she got a six year sentence for the current charges, minus time served, minus good behavior... she isn't going to break. There is no benefit to her to do so. IMHO of course.

[not_my_kids]

My thoughts exactly. There were no other times that she even mentioned anything smelling like smoke. Sheesh..what does it take to get an honest answer from her. Shows the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!


I have always kind of suspected that the comment about tossing the toys because they smelled like smoke was just setting the stage to start an explanation of why Cindy would wash Casey's clothes. Make people think that Cindy can't stand smelly things of any type in the house. JMO, as always.

[lilacwine]

I read that post too. I have to admit I was surprised by it. My fiance is a professional in the tech business and knows a lot about hacker sites and can find crazy things online that I had no idea existed, but even he was dumbfounded last night when I asked him about the fake domain names for the email addresses. Casey must have really known a lot about little "tricks" available on the internet which I find interesting.
Of course if it was just a "print out" it could have been doctored.

[Girlrilla]

decomp smell is pervasive
it gets into everyting
if the smell was in the car anyting in the car would smell the same

i think the original clothes are gone
really hard to get that smell out

So it's kind of like skunk then? :)

[SweetDreamOfYou]

So it's kind of like skunk then? :)

much much worse

[DaisyBelle]

dont forget
dead animal that she might have hit :D

Oh yeah I forgot about that one.. ;)

[Girlrilla]

[QUOTE=CitizenKim;2474076]

She is not going to crack, the investigators have even commented on how nonchalant she has been through really tough interogations. Nothing other than an occasional laugh. The more time that passes before (if) they find Caylee the better her case gets. I know they can convict without a body but it is much harder. Even if she got a six year sentence for the current charges, minus time served, minus good behavior... she isn't going to break. There is no benefit to her to do so. IMHO of course.

I know, as much as I wish she would, I can't see her going, "Yes, I did it. I killed her. Now put me away for life instead of 6 years." :angel:

[blondietx]

in the interview she just gave she said the clothes came from Tonys apartment and smelt like smoke so she washed them

Nooo...Cindy - that was the smell of the BAR that your daughter was hanging out in the whole THIRTY ONE days she and your granddaughter were missing!

Besides the fact that she said in the first interview she took them out and washed them cause they smelled like the car. Which, at that point, smelled like a dead body. So now she is changing the story(big surprise) and we are now supposed to believe that the smoke smell overpowered the DEAD BODY smell!!

Good Lord! And people wonder why we don't believe a word they say and lack sympathy for them!! I have had it! :furious:

[lilacwine]

http://www.anonymailer.net/

here's an example of bogus email sites

[Elley Mae]

If in not mistaken one of the pictures of Casey at Fusian she has a cig in her hand so I guess that Cindy was washing clothes everyday.

[DaisyBelle]

[QUOTE=blondietx;2474118]Nooo...Cindy - that was the smell of the BAR that your daughter was hanging out in the whole THIRTY ONE days she and your granddaughter were missing!

She was hanging out.. she was conducting her own "investigation"

[Lili]

I think, if you rewatch the clip, Cindy said that she had 3 duffle bags of clothes that she picked up at that apartment. They smelled of cig. smoke and she washed them.

Those clothes were not in the smelly car...only the grey slacks that she washed was in the smelly car. :yuck:

[robotdog]

Oh yeah I forgot about that one.. ;)


;)

i was searching for an old friend once along with the wardens and police

we found him, summer time hot
he was an older guy - loved living in the woods


i will never forget the smell

ever

:(

[whiteangora]

Every thing she said made perfect sense and she does have a right to speak. Bless you Cindy

I've got to agree with you.
She is not one of my favorite people, but today she
has made more sense and seemed more lucid than I
have ever seen her.

[boston_baby]

I have always kind of suspected that the comment about tossing the toys because they smelled like smoke was just setting the stage to start an explanation of why Cindy would wash Casey's clothes. Make people think that Cindy can't stand smelly things of any type in the house. JMO, as always.

Anyone now think that any of the toys thrown out where some of the "many toys" someone said were supposed to be in the car along with the car seat?

Makes me re-think the "donation" claim, personally.

[blondietx]

I think, if you rewatch the clip, Cindy said that she had 3 duffle bags of clothes that she picked up at that apartment. They smelled of cig. smoke and she washed them.

Those clothes were not in the smelly car...only the grey slacks that she washed was in the smelly car. :yuck:

Alright, I'll calm down. I'm glad to hear that, actually. Thanks for the clarification.

[Hailiejade77]

Every thing she said made perfect sense and she does have a right to speak. Bless you Cindy

I will say this again,.... I FEEL BAD FOR THE ANTHONY'S! They have been feed Casey's lies and the house of cards are about to fall. I understand that they come and talk to the media,.. but when they want to be left alone they should. ESPECIALLY TOMORROW FOR CAYLEE'S BIRTHDAY! It should be a day for them to be left alone and if they WANT to come and talk to the media then so be it. WE have no idea what they are going through. WE haven't lived what they are going through. I think if my daughter was telling me some bogus story of a kidnapper, I would probably believe her because if I didn't then I would have to believe that she killed my granddaughter and that is a horrific pain that I hope NONE of us ever have to face. JMO

[Girlrilla]

So what happened to that headline Fox flashed earlier about the DNA results being in?

[LaLaw2000]

I saw the video on Fox of George having a meltdown. If I were local LE, I would have come up with some excuse to have he and Cindy back in this afternoon. Maybe just to go over phone records or something. Maybe George is seeing that everything is getting out of control. It was a pretty strong rant he made. It is just possible he may have opened up even more with LE having been this upset.

All the Anthony's have to do is put out a no trespassing sign and if ANYONE ignores it, he/she can be arrested. The media are getting mixed signals here. Cindy seems to relish the media's attention. George does not seem to. A simple answer would be the no trespassing sign. Then if Cindy wants the attention, she can go out to the street and speak with them.

I heard a mention on Fox news that Casey was not feeling well yesterday and today. Dear Lord, I do hope she is not pregnant. Just a thought I had.

I had sympathy for all members of the family in the beginning. I do not now. I believe they have all covered for Casey. And both Cindy and George have changed their stories and/or added things as this whole thing has unfolded.

My sympathy is directed to Caylee. I believe this baby is flying with the angels right now. I see no reason for there to be anything other than prayers for her on her birthday. And I will be saying those prayers. I will also say prayers for the family as well. I am glad that the 12 year old girl had the idea of a vigil for Caylee and the release of the balloons with a message on them released to the sky. This is more fitting than a party.

IF any of the Anthony family knows anything whatever or has covered anything up at all, it is time to come clean. This has all gone on long enough. Casey herself should want her little daughter to have a proper burial.

[DianeB]

so did you guys see that interview with Cindy I mentioned? I'm guessing it's new....I hadn't seen it, but I could have missed it...and she says that if news stations air george getting upset then she will no longer do anymore interviews with that station.

http://www.wesh.com/video/index.htmlGuess that would be the last we see of Cindy, then.

This is from the last minute of so of that clip, in response to a reporter asking her about washing Casey's pants.

"Three or four o'clock in the afternoon, bring the car home.

Pizza smell in the back trunk.

No evidence of Caylee, no evidence of Casey.

I didn't have any issues, did I? What time did I make the 911 calls?

OK?

I found a pair of pants in the back seat, and by the way the two pair of shoes were left in the back seat.

I took the pants out, threw them in the wash with the other things I had in the wash that day, not knowing that that might become evidence.

And, that night, when the police arrived at my house the first thing I said, "I took the pair of pants out of the car and I washed them. Do you think that they cared? No, they didn't care.

That did not get brought up. So, clarify with them, when I told them about the pants. It's not an issue. Even this week when they came to pick up the pants, they knew I'd washed it - they said "It doesn't matter." They still want to look at them.

OK? So, again. Does that clear up the question? That's not a mystery.

<snip>

When we dumped them out on the living room floor in front of five deputies, I said, "These clothes smell like smoke because they came back from Tony's apartment. What do you want me to do with them? We went through - I went through all the pockets. I gave them - offered up stuff. They didn't want it at that time. I said, "Do you mind if I wash them, because I'm not bringing smoky clothes into our non-smoking house? And they said, "Go right ahead." So I washed the entire three duffel bags full of clothes that Casey had. They sat on her bed for three weeks, folded up, waiting for them to take or look at them. They didn't want 'em.

So if I did anything wrong? They gave me the blessing. I'm sorry."

At that point Lee(?) takes her by the hand and pulls her into the garage.


I believe those three duffel bags (!) could have smelled like smoke, but I'm not buying the pizza pants.

Sounds as if the original LE responders weren't thinking outside the box, if they didn't want to scoop up everything that had been in that car.

[SweetDreamOfYou]

Anyone now think that any of the toys thrown out where some of the "many toys" someone said were supposed to be in the car along with the car seat?

Makes me re-think the "donation" claim, personally.

i think that the sites the dogs hit on in the yard were places that someone was looking for a hiding sport for stuff out of the car.
i think everything from that car is gone.

until i heard about ciny "washing clothes from the car" i had held out hope that she wasn't involved and jsut wanted verymuch to believe casey

not i am not so sure.

jsut my opinion of course

[Winnts]

[QUOTE=CitizenKim;2474076]

She is not going to crack, the investigators have even commented on how nonchalant she has been through really tough interogations. Nothing other than an occasional laugh. The more time that passes before (if) they find Caylee the better her case gets. I know they can convict without a body but it is much harder. Even if she got a six year sentence for the current charges, minus time served, minus good behavior... she isn't going to break. There is no benefit to her to do so. IMHO of course.

I hope she's adjusting to her new life in jail. Because she's gotta be looking at least a few years in there if nothing else.

[ketel0ne]

LE didn't even take the car til the 17th right?

[STEADFAST]

Anyone now think that any of the toys thrown out where some of the "many toys" someone said were supposed to be in the car along with the car seat?

Makes me re-think the "donation" claim, personally.

You may have something there! I thought the throwing-away-donations thing was beyond strange. But, then again, why would they just blatantly throw away toys that were in the car, right in front of everyone, if they were trying to get rid of evidence or something.

[passin_through]

I felt for George when he had his outburst. The family said they wanted a private gathering if Caylee wasn't home for her birthday, no friends no anybody but the three of them. I'm sure George is realizing that Caylee won't be home this Sat.

I feel rather certain too that George loves his home and gets some happiness in caring for it. More than once George has talked of his home as something he is willing to lose or have torn to pieces to get his grandbaby back. To me that's telling me how important his home is to him.

He can't take a moment and be alone with his thoughts out mowing and doing yard work etc. (I love my time out mowing and caring for my yard) They can't fart without worries of the press being there to smell. I really think George believed Caylee would be home for her birthday, I think he truly believed his daughter. I think Cindy is the strong one in the family.

I hope the press gives the family some breathing room this weekend, they need it. It's ratings and $$ for the press, it's a real life tragedy for this family. I'm certainly interested in this case but I could do without it so that this family can have some dearly needed space. If Lee is investigating on his own, I hope they check Puerto Rico too.

[FLbeachdawg]

I think that we can safely say that the car that was found in the lake near the Anthony's house was not related. According to WESH, there were 2 cars found and they are still working on getting the other one out of the water.
Thanks SuzieQ for the link.

GEEEEEEZ, we have so many "mini-lakes" and ponds and DRAINAGE ponds here in Orlando/Central FL area it makes me wonder what is in all of them...:eek::eek:

[Elley Mae]

I personally would like to know why Cindy was out side to begin with,was she putting the daily bag of trash out (we only have pick up twice a week). SHe loves the attention as far as I'm concerned,if she needed to go out she could have taken her walk in the back yard.

[whiteangora]

How would the clothes smell like dead body unless she were rolling around with a dead body? The trunk smelled like a dead body, maybe not the entire car? I think the clothing probably smelled like mostly smoke after being at Tony's, or Tony being in Casey's car smoking. Just a thought. I guess I could see the clothes smelling like decomposition if she was carrying a decaying body around...but I dunno. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around someone dying and stinking so quickly all in one day. How soon do people get to a funeral home to be preserved for a funeral after death? It's not always so quickly...I wish I was in forensics, this kind of stuff I really wish I knew more about.

The smell of human decomposition permeates everything, sometimes even metallic objects. It's nearly impossible to get rid of. My dh is in the car
business, he once got a car on trade that contained a body. It was eventually destroyed because the odor could not be removed.
Just to clarify, the body was removed before he got the car.

[RoseRed]

I read that post too. I have to admit I was surprised by it. My fiance is a professional in the tech business and knows a lot about hacker sites and can find crazy things online that I had no idea existed, but even he was dumbfounded last night when I asked him about the fake domain names for the email addresses. Casey must have really known a lot about little "tricks" available on the internet which I find interesting.

If she knew that much then would also know that it can still be traced back to where it came from. I learned this from an e-mail list that I moderate. It was suggested the moderators join a spam search site to run the email headers through a machine to trace them back to the actual sender.

[LaLaw2000]

Oh, and one more thing I wanted to say. I hope that one of the inmates (at rec time) points out to Casey that if she is covering for ANYONE who helped her - come clean. After all it is only Casey's rear end in jail and she is the only one being charged. Anyone who helped her is just as guilty as she is.

Ok. I have had my say now!!

[wishingtree]

Of course if it was just a "print out" it could have been doctored.

I thought about that too. But in the context the messages were discussed in on Greta last night I had the impression that LE had retrieved those messages either from the phone or phone company. Of course I could have misunderstood.

[ketel0ne]

You may have something there! I thought the throwing-away-donations thing was beyond strange. But, then again, why would they just blatantly throw away toys that were in the car, right in front of everyone, if they were trying to get rid of evidence or something.

Is it evidence if LE doesn't want it?

[boston_baby]

You may have something there! I thought the throwing-away-donations thing was beyond strange. But, then again, why would they just blatantly throw away toys that were in the car, right in front of everyone, if they were trying to get rid of evidence or something.

I don't know. Maybe because making it "too obvious" would make it not obvious at all?
Does that make sense?

[GameTheory]

[QUOTE=GameTheory;2473962]
I know a lot of people still believe Casey will ''break'' and confess out of ''guilt''. IT'S NEVER HAPPENING PEOPLE. I know you still hold on that hope because it is the only way for Caylee to come home, alive or not.
/QUOTE] snipped

I'm still hoping she will crack. She really likes storytelling and getting attention. Maybe she will think she can "explain" it away as an accident -and get people on her side again. She seems to grossly overestimate her own intelligence so let's hope she spins another tale.

Ohh with you hoping, I am also hoping, and the LE are hoping that she would start talking to them again even to tell them more stories. Then they can find some clues about what she might have done to Caylee though her lies.

But as we all noticed she stopped talking to the LE early on. Why? She has nothing to give. She said her ''story'' and she will stick to it until the end of days. I know I sound like a broken record, but even after police recovered Lacy's body at the same place Scott admitted he went ''fishing'' :liar: he was still maintaining his innocence. No excuse of a late romantic boat ride with his pregnant wife and she fell of the boat and he desperately tried to save her. No no no...he had nothing to do with it he said and he still says that sitting on Death Row.

Right now the LE is contacting dozens and dozens of interviews with people who saw Casey, lived with Casey, worked with Casey, talked to Casey to find a possible motive. Also they get statements from people hearing Casey say ''she would be better without the kid'', ''she could go to New York with Tony if she didn't have the kid'', etc. etc. The police know they are not going to get anything from Casey

[RoseRed]

Oh it changed again? Bodies, smoke, pizza.. all the same

It did not change all these things were mentioned but not changes unless you take them out of context.

[Benji]

but no one taught casey "to lie and have no feelings from childhood." and regardless if her parents weren't mom and dad of the year, you learn basic ethics from school and society and life in general.


There have been numerous posts that allude to Casey learning her lying ability from both Cindy and George, with all of the lying that they themselves have done. So it seems that the general concensus is that she DID learn to lie from childhood. I can't speak to any of this professionally since I have never studied it, but I am curious, and as such, have plenty of curiosity about it. I don't think that asking questions to learn about something should be cause for anyone to make such hateful remarks as "finally someone who knows what they are talking about" either! I wonder, if those who "know what they are talking about" on any subject can say they learned without asking questions!!

I respectfully disagree with "you learn basic ethics from school and society and life in general" instead of at home. That leaves the idea completely out in the cold that not having a father or mother in the home is cause for many behavioral and societal problems if that's true. That, plus I have seen from my own upbringing and in raising my children that parents have the most important impact on their children in these matters.

[DaisyBelle]

It did not change all these things were mentioned but not changes unless you take them out of context.

I realized that .. Thanks! :blushing:

[maur33]

snipped
and if she is actually a sociopath, then are you saying that she was BORN that way? If so, then she still had something thrust upon her through no fault of her own! What I'm trying to say here is that unless she is just a normal human being like the rest of us, and she has CHOSEN FOR HERSELF to behave the way she does, then there is reason for some compassion for her. Obviously the little girl didn't deserve any of this, she's TOTALLY innocent, but according to what is going on with Casey, there could be room to say that she isn't completely culpable in her behavior either! If you teach a child to lie and have no feelings from childhood, then they will grow up to think of that as the normal way to behave. How could someone like that be held totally accountable for their behavior then?[/COLOR]


Benji, sociopaths are born..yes they are.
These people know right from wrong they simply choose to do as they please regardless. Now not all sociopaths are murderers and not all murderers are sociopaths...a sociopath has no conscience, they never feel remorse, concern, sadness or empathy. In fact many will actually have contempt for those they victimize, they minimize their crimes and move on as if nothing happened.

Many sociopath's grow up to become successful, manipulating lying CEO's, President's and the like. The path that each sociopath chooses is as individual as the rest of us.

Just wanted to add one last thing..
I think it's safe to assume that you have never had any up close experience with a sociopath. Thank your lucky stars that you don't get it, because the day that you do will be the day that your life changes forever.

[logic13]

I read that post too. I have to admit I was surprised by it. My fiance is a professional in the tech business and knows a lot about hacker sites and can find crazy things online that I had no idea existed, but even he was dumbfounded last night when I asked him about the fake domain names for the email addresses. Casey must have really known a lot about little "tricks" available on the internet which I find interesting.

I think everyone is overthinking this one.

If I remember right, she just forwarded a fake email to her brother. She just typed in that it was from an email address she made up. It wasn't a real address.

ANYONE can fake a "Forwarded" email.

When you look at a real forwarded email that someone has sent you...

It is just a message below your message. Just because it reads :

From: Jane Doe
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:59 PM
To: John Doe
Subject: FW: Fake email

Hi This is a fake email .. blah blah blah

doesn't mean that someone REALLY sent it to you.

Try it. You can just type below your message ANY fake email you want.

[Hailiejade77]

I personally would like to know why Cindy was out side to begin with,was she putting the daily bag of trash out (we only have pick up twice a week). SHe loves the attention as far as I'm concerned,if she needed to go out she could have taken her walk in the back yard.

That was taking earlier this morning. When George came out and told them to leave him alone she was in the garage with him and on the phone. She hung up the phone. He drove off. She gave that interview. Lee pulled up in the car after NOT getting to visit his sister and he dragged her inside.

[GameTheory]

I've got to agree with you.
She is not one of my favorite people, but today she
has made more sense and seemed more lucid than I
have ever seen her.

Yes I also agree. And if you noticed in their outbursts both George and Cindi keep talking about their pain for Caylee but not about their daughter sitting in jail anymore. The search warrant really brought it home for them unfortunately. And Cindi's voice seemed to crack at moments but she fought against it.

[Lili]

Alright, I'll calm down. I'm glad to hear that, actually. Thanks for the clarification.

Personally. I want to know about Caylee's clothes! Were they also included and were they worn/dirtied? Of course, I suppose Casey would say she washed them since she didn't have her with her. But how many outfits and toys did she have with her? Hmmmm?

[lilacwine]

I thought about that too. But in the context the messages were discussed in on Greta last night I had the impression that LE had retrieved those messages either from the phone or phone company. Of course I could have misunderstood.

They were from things lee turned over...

Today he said some were direct emails some hard copies

[wishingtree]

I've got to agree with you.
She is not one of my favorite people, but today she
has made more sense and seemed more lucid than I
have ever seen her.

I have to agree also. I have not felt very favorable towards the Anthony family previously, but honestly I think George breaking down and showing anger and real emotion on camera today actually improved the public's perception of them. The interview in the driveway with Cindy was probably the first time I've heard her speak without wanting to throw something at the screen. I think the fact that Caylee's birthday is tomorrow has to be causing their emotions to run much higher today than usual. I lost my Mother violently in March 2002 and every September when her birthday comes around I lay in the bed and alternate between crying and trying to sleep it off. The people in my life know to leave me alone on that day and respect it. I can't imagine going through it in the public spotlight. I still do not, nor will I ever have sympathy for Casey.

[RoseRed]

Nooo...Cindy - that was the smell of the BAR that your daughter was hanging out in the whole THIRTY ONE days she and your granddaughter were missing!

Besides the fact that she said in the first interview she took them out and washed them cause they smelled like the car. Which, at that point, smelled like a dead body. So now she is changing the story(big surprise) and we are now supposed to believe that the smoke smell overpowered the DEAD BODY smell!!

Good Lord! And people wonder why we don't believe a word they say and lack sympathy for them!! I have had it! :furious:

She said she washed the pants because they smelled like the car. The other things that smelled like smoke from TonE's apartment were different items that were collected from TonE's apartment and were in backpacks.

Did anyone actually listen to the entire vodeo?

[not_my_kids]

Anyone now think that any of the toys thrown out where some of the "many toys" someone said were supposed to be in the car along with the car seat?

Makes me re-think the "donation" claim, personally.

I hadn't actually considered that, but I would have to say that it's a definite possibility. You are sharp.

[Hailiejade77]

Cindy did say on Greta last night that when she called LE yesterday she gave them some of Caylee's stuff that she will get back when they are done with them. Hopefully it was clothes and something to prove Casey is a liar.

[Amster]

So....Cindy dumps out the smelly clothes on the floor in front of what? 5 detectives?? And is perplexed that they didn't want them?? Why would they?? This was supposedly a kidnapping, right?

I love how the "smells like a dead body" has changed to "smells like pizza"....I wonder how many people get those 2 smells confused? I've never smelled the odor of a dead body, but I know what pizza smells like. If they smell the same....just ick! No more pizza for me!

[softsoul]

Benji, sociopaths are born..yes they are.
These people know right from wrong they simply choose to do as they please regardless. Now not all sociopaths are murderers and not all murderers are sociopaths...a sociopath has no conscience, they never feel remorse, concern, sadness or empathy. In fact many will actually have contempt for those they victimize, they minimize their crimes and move on as if nothing happened.

Many sociopath's grow up to become successful, manipulating lying CEO's, President's and the like. The path that each sociopath chooses is as individual as the rest of us.

No one really knows what makes someone a sociopath. There are lots of theories but no known truth of how or when someone becomes sociopathic.

[chrisg]

Well of course you are free to believe whatever you wish, the fact remains however that I am NOT making excuses for her, nor am I saying that she should not pay for whatever sins she may have committed. I would question you on your theory that I don't believe sociopaths are created by their families or their upbringing therefore I cannot under any circumstances view Casey as "screwed up by no fault of her own".If that is the case then, just exactly HOW did she get to be the way she is? There has to be a reason for it, and if she is actually a sociopath, then are you saying that she was BORN that way? If so, then she still had something thrust upon her through no fault of her own! What I'm trying to say here is that unless she is just a normal human being like the rest of us, and she has CHOSEN FOR HERSELF to behave the way she does, then there is reason for some compassion for her. Obviously the little girl didn't deserve any of this, she's TOTALLY innocent, but according to what is going on with Casey, there could be room to say that she isn't completely culpable in her behavior either! If you teach a child to lie and have no feelings from childhood, then they will grow up to think of that as the normal way to behave. How could someone like that be held totally accountable for their behavior then?

Saying Casey is not at fault is clearly making excuses for her. There is no other way to categorize it.

And although she exhibits sociopathic tendencies, it is not my job to determine how she developed them or when she started demonstrating them--nor--more importantly--is it the responsibility of the criminal justice system to do so.

Casey, like every other human being--normal or not--HAS self determined her actions and IS responsible for them. If everyone who did not behave normally was automatically not responsible for their actions our society would devolve into chaos.

And I'm not sure where the definitive conclusions come from that she was taught to lie and have no feelings. And, if so, was she also taught to murder? B/c that is the crime we are discussing here. Not whether she lies or has a lack of empathy but the alleged murder of her own child.

[ketel0ne]

All Casey really has to say at this point to keep up the charade is I made all those people up to protect Caylee, I can't tell you who has her or where they got her from. The ground work is already set. The state, LE and her family need to decide if a manslaugter charge and bringing Caylee home is better than waiting out the alternative possible murder charge.

[FLbeachdawg]

Cindy did say on Greta last night that when she called LE yesterday she gave them some of Caylee's stuff that she will get back when they are done with them. Hopefully it was clothes and something to prove Casey is a liar.

They have Caylee's toothbrush, hairbrush and some clothing that they took on July 17th

[wishingtree]

I think everyone is overthinking this one.

If I remember right, she just forwarded a fake email to her brother. She just typed in that it was from an email address she made up. It wasn't a real address.

ANYONE can fake a "Forwarded" email.

When you look at a real forwarded email that someone has sent you...

It is just a message below your message. Just because it reads :

From: Jane Doe
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:59 PM
To: John Doe
Subject: FW: Fake email

Hi This is a fake email .. blah blah blah

doesn't mean that someone REALLY sent it to you.

Try it. You can just type below your message ANY fake email you want.

Thank you for pointing that out. I did not realize it was a forwarded email, so that explains a lot.

[Hisimage]

You now Casey could just be a product of never making your child accountable. From the time he/she began attending school and interacting with others. At either rate , what a shame.

I say this because after just watching the video it brought me to tears. Dad loses it because he has been trying to keep cool and be in control of holding the family together.
Mom (cindy) comes out and smooths everything over. She took the tone on that she did with Casey when she realized Casey was finished talking to her. Dismissing her from the phone call and asking for Tonys Phone number.

I feel terribly sad for this family.

[IntriguedMind]

wftv news suggests a theory of possible drowning

[wishingtree]

They were from things lee turned over...

Today he said some were direct emails some hard copies

Thank you obviously I assumed too much from what I heard last night. We all know what happens when you assume! Sorry about that. :blushing:

[Amster]

I think Lee said someone, he wishes not to name, gave him a copy of the e-mail. I guess either he, or the un-named person, gave a copy to LE.

I wonder what Lee has discovered that he hasn't shared with LE?

[passin_through]

Hisimage, it made me tear up too--watching George.

[zadari]

i may have not seen the post or info but has a professional diagnosed casey with being a sociopath? or any disorder ? do we even know if she is ? mabey she knows what she is doing.. only she knows . i think there is way too much speculation going on in this case . and i wonder if what we are saying on here is somehow getting back to her and her family . i have said things i probably shouldnt have on here and i feel bad for it . the only thing that really matters is caylee and that she is found .i for one will be watching what i say as far as this case goes .

[lilacwine]

i may have not seen the post or info but has a professional diagnosed casey with being a sociopath? or any disorder ? do we even know if she is ? mabey she knows what she is doing.. only she knows . i think there is way too much speculation going on in this case . and i wonder if what we are saying on here is somehow getting back to her and her family . i have said things i probably shouldnt have on here and i feel bad for it . the only thing that really matters is caylee and that she is found .i for one will be watching what i say as far as this case goes .


I think they diagnosis is purely speculation at this part... and I agree... Caylee is where the focus needs to be....

Thanks for pointint that out!

[suspicious mind]

Personally. I want to know about Caylee's clothes! Were they also included and were they worn/dirtied? Of course, I suppose Casey would say she washed them since she didn't have her with her. But how many outfits and toys did she have with her? Hmmmm?

excellent point! If Casey were planning on having Caylee with her, would she not have had clothes for her too?

[Anais]

As to the cancelled visit between Lee and Casey last night on Nancy Grace it was stated by that one reporter that Casey's lawyer Jose Baez was quite suspicious and upset with the family, most especially that Lee working with LE and the FBI in regards to this case. It was also stated that their were "lines" being drawn in regards to furture visits etc.

And yet still they come out with yet another bald faced lie as to why Casey refused to see her brother Lee! Nobody in this family can be honest. I truly believe that they are people accusomed to lying even in the face of such scrutiny, and also when unnecessary!

[Hisimage]

That was a dad who has reached his limit. More than likely he heard something that perhaps made him doubt his daughter, or whatever , who knows. But now I see the broken-ness in him and I am sad for him.

[ketel0ne]

i may have not seen the post or info but has a professional diagnosed casey with being a sociopath? or any disorder ? do we even know if she is ? mabey she knows what she is doing.. only she knows . i think there is way too much speculation going on in this case . and i wonder if what we are saying on here is somehow getting back to her and her family . i have said things i probably shouldnt have on here and i feel bad for it . the only thing that really matters is caylee and that she is found .i for one will be watching what i say as far as this case goes .

Nope no professional diagnose, and we have heard Casey for a grand total of about 26 minutes of conversation all under distress and unusual situations, 911 and jail phone.

[shannon718]

I thought she said the clothes smelled like "pizza"?:waitasec:

For Cindy right now:

Pizza =Decompostion

Also: Here is a very informative yet graphic article regarding human decomposition. What I found most interesting is that it is said that the smell actually clings to your clothing , fingernails, and hair after being exposed to it and its unforgettable and unmistakable. Reading this gave me great insight as to how George could never have mistaken the smell for anything else and for Cindy to dismiss is as pizza is just downright ludicrous. Here it is:

http://www.coronerstories.com/2005/06/02/%E2%80%9Chuman-decomposition%E2%80

[tx_Dot]

Personally. I want to know about Caylee's clothes! Were they also included and were they worn/dirtied? Of course, I suppose Casey would say she washed them since she didn't have her with her. But how many outfits and toys did she have with her? Hmmmm?

Yes, that would be nice to find out about......that, & I wonder if Cindy uses Arm & Hammer detergent.

[RoseRed]

I think everyone is overthinking this one.

If I remember right, she just forwarded a fake email to her brother. She just typed in that it was from an email address she made up. It wasn't a real address.

ANYONE can fake a "Forwarded" email.

When you look at a real forwarded email that someone has sent you...

It is just a message below your message. Just because it reads :

From: Jane Doe
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:59 PM
To: John Doe
Subject: FW: Fake email

Hi This is a fake email .. blah blah blah

doesn't mean that someone REALLY sent it to you.

Try it. You can just type below your message ANY fake email you want.

You can trace a forwarded message as it will still contain the headers from both senders. If it is sent as a reply it will not contain both headers.

[lilacwine]

As to the cancelled visit between Lee and Casey last night on Nancy Grace it was stated by that one reporter that Casey's lawyer Jose Baez was quite suspicious of the family, most especially Lee working with LE and the FBI in regards to this case. It was also stated that their were "lines" being drawn in regards to furture visits etc.

And yet still they come out with yet another bald faced lie as to why Casey refused to see her brother Lee! Nobody in this family can be honest. I truly believe that they are people accusomed to lying even in the face of such scrutiny, and also when unnecessary!


That may have very well been the reason that Lee was given. Just because lines are being drawn doesn't mean that Lee showed up and was told "I don't think you're supportive enough or I don't trust you..."

[housemouse]

I know this so well, wishingtree. My oldest child died many years ago, on September the 16th. It was one of those horrible sudden cardiac arrythmias, and completely unexpected. She was only 21.

I am unable to face the coming of September, and about this time every year, I know the day is coming. I do my best, but it is like a huge train bearing down on me. My husband struggles too. We are not ourselves until after her birthdate in mid-October.

But, we are not alone in grieving the loss of a child. Many struggle with the same huge hole in their hearts.


I have to agree also. I have not felt very favorable towards the Anthony family previously, but honestly I think George breaking down and showing anger and real emotion on camera today actually improved the public's perception of them. The interview in the driveway with Cindy was probably the first time I've heard her speak without wanting to throw something at the screen. I think the fact that Caylee's birthday is tomorrow has to be causing their emotions to run much higher today than usual. I lost my Mother violently in March 2002 and every September when her birthday comes around I lay in the bed and alternate between crying and trying to sleep it off. The people in my life know to leave me alone on that day and respect it. I can't imagine going through it in the public spotlight. I still do not, nor will I ever have sympathy for Casey.

[shannon718]

I think Lee said someone, he wishes not to name, gave him a copy of the e-mail. I guess either he, or the un-named person, gave a copy to LE.

I wonder what Lee has discovered that he hasn't shared with LE?

Amster:

The email was in a thread in Casey's mailbox...No one gave it to Lee.

[lilacwine]

If you've ever received a paypal or ebay scam email... you can tell that fake domain emails are done frequently.....

[shannon718]

Is there anyway we can ask the moderators to create a thread regarding THE EMAIL? I think at this point it needs its own.

[bluedevil21]

"I respectfully disagree with "you learn basic ethics from school and society and life in general" instead of at home. That leaves the idea completely out in the cold that not having a father or mother in the home is cause for many behavioral and societal problems if that's true. That, plus I have seen from my own upbringing and in raising my children that parents have the most important impact on their children in these matters."

please don't misquote me. i didnt say that how you are brought up or how a child's home life is plays no role in the person that they develop into - but i think that there are factors outside of upbringing, outside of parenting, that also factor into an individual's growth. not that it matters, but i have a psychology degree, i'm not just voicing my empty opinion here. it is the great nature vs. nurture argument. of course, home life matters. but it is not the only thing. how you are physically wired, your disposition, your attitudes are not simply honed by who your parents are. it's much deeper than that. and you can't just gloss over it by taking away culpability for casey because her parents may occasionally tell lies.

for example, look at cho, the VT shooter - his sister graduated from princeton, had a great job with the state department, and was well-known for her work effort, tact, and intelligence. her brother was a mass murderer.

[MagicRose99]

Is there anyway we can ask the moderators to create a thread regarding THE EMAIL? I think at this point it needs its own.

You can start the thread yourself...

[suspicious mind]

As to the cancelled visit between Lee and Casey last night on Nancy Grace it was stated by that one reporter that Casey's lawyer Jose Baez was quite suspicious of the family, most especially Lee working with LE and the FBI in regards to this case. It was also stated that their were "lines" being drawn in regards to furture visits etc.


snipped

If she has nothing to hide, what are they (Casey and her lawyer) worried about? Why does it matter the family is working with LE? That's the way it should be. Families usually do work with LE to find "missing" relatives. hmmmm

[Benji]

Saying Casey is not at fault is clearly making excuses for her. There is no other way to categorize it.

And although she exhibits sociopathic tendencies, it is not my job to determine how she developed them or when she started demonstrating them--nor--more importantly--is it the responsibility of the criminal justice system to do so.

Casey, like every other human being--normal or not--HAS self determined her actions and IS responsible for them. If everyone who did not behave normally was automatically not responsible for their actions our society would devolve into chaos.

And I'm not sure where the definitive conclusions come from that she was taught to lie and have no feelings. And, if so, was she also taught to murder? B/c that is the crime we are discussing here. Not whether she lies or has a lack of empathy but the alleged murder of her own child.

Actually murder is NOT what we are discussing here in the question I asked; I am asking specifically about sociopathic behavior. There has been no definitive conclusion that she was taught to lie and I NEVER said that there was. I also NEVER said that Casey is not a fault for her behavior. I have simply asked questions relating to how culpable a sociopathic person would be if the malady was not their fault to begin with.

I would suggest that if my questions regarding this issue is a problem for you, that you ignore what I have to say. As far as I know, there is not a single person on this board who knows everything there is to know about this case, and in that regard I believe that any questions/comments that I have are just as pertinent as those of anyone else.

[GameTheory]

As to the cancelled visit between Lee and Casey last night on Nancy Grace it was stated by that one reporter that Casey's lawyer Jose Baez was quite suspicious of the family, most especially Lee working with LE and the FBI in regards to this case. It was also stated that their were "lines" being drawn in regards to furture visits etc.

Thank you for bringing this info. I said it in a post earlier today.

1. Look at the transcript of Lee's phonecall with Casey from prison. Look all the questions Lee asks her about the nanny, what time the nanny called, what day and time Casey heard Caylee on the phone. Also play that audio. You can easily suspect that Lee is ''reading'' those questions. Listen how he asks her the questions. He sounds very ''professional'', like an investigator will probe for certain info, not allowing the interviewee to continue with general information but answer with specific answers.

2. Now look at the search warrant regarding what the police was checking. Casey's phone accounts and all the info Casey gave to Lee regarding what phonecalls she exchanged with the ''nanny'' and what times. NOW the police has her on record lying about specific times and dates and events. Plus the tapes will be admissable in a trial course Lee made sure he explained to Casey they were being audio-taped (police asked him to do that as well?)

3. Search warrant comes out yesterday, Casey's lawyer isn't a fool. He could connect the dots.

Please go back and listen to that phonecall and then read again the search warrant. I trully believe there is a good chance Lee had someone with him when he was asking those questions to Casey.

[blondietx]

She said she washed the pants because they smelled like the car. The other things that smelled like smoke from TonE's apartment were different items that were collected from TonE's apartment and were in backpacks.

Did anyone actually listen to the entire vodeo?

If you'll continue reading the entire thread before you post about the inconsistencies, you'll notice we all realized the mistake!

[blondietx]

I realized that .. Thanks! :blushing:

Hey - don't worry about it. Happens to the best of us, at one point or another!

[Anais]

I know this so well, wishingtree. My oldest child died many years ago, on September the 16th. It was one of those horrible sudden cardiac arrythmias, and completely unexpected. She was only 21.

I am unable to face the coming of September, and about this time every year, I know the day is coming. I do my best, but it is like a huge train bearing down on me. My husband struggles too. We are not ourselves until after her birthdate in mid-October.

But, we are not alone in grieving the loss of a child. Many struggle with the same huge hole in their hearts.

Housemouse my heart goes out to you and your family for such a tragic loss. Being a mom my heart just aches for you! So so sorry. Hugs, Anais

[not_my_kids]

Did anyone notice that in the interview with Cindy, the recent one, that she says when they picked up the car and she found the pants, that there was no evidence of Casey or Caylee in the car? Yet if Caylee's carseat and these clothes and shoes and toys were in the car, couldn't you say that was evidence of Casey and Caylee? That point is confusing me.
I should really get some sleep.

[murdershewrote]

a good point was raised about Caylee's clothing. Certainly Casey must have taken alot of clothing for her, underwear, toys, etc. If she had "moved out". so where is all this stuff? Cindy got Casey's clothing back from bf's house but nothing of Caylee's? Or is this something else she has forgotten to mention and she'll bring it up when it is convenient. Surely LE must have asked her for any clothing, toys that would have been Caylee's that might have been brought back from bf's. Where are her sunglasses, for example, that George said she had on the last time he saw her. Certainly Casey wouldnt have given all Caylee's stuff to this mystery babysitter.

[Anais]

Thank you for bringing this info. I said it in a post earlier today.

1. Look at the transcript of Lee's phonecall with Casey from prison. Look all the questions Lee asks her about the nanny, what time the nanny called, what day and time Casey heard Caylee on the phone. Also play that audio. You can easily suspect that Lee is ''reading'' those questions. Listen how he asks her the questions. He sounds very ''professional'', like an investigator will probe for certain info, not allowing the interviewee to continue with general information but answer with specific answers.

2. Now look at the search warrant regarding what the police was checking. Casey's phone accounts and all the info Casey gave to Lee regarding what phonecalls she exchanged with the ''nanny'' and what times. NOW the police has her on record lying about specific times and dates and events. Plus the tapes will be admissable in a trial course Lee made sure he explained to Casey they were being audio-taped (police asked him to do that as well?)

3. Search warrant comes out yesterday, Casey's lawyer isn't a fool. He could connect the dots.

Please go back and listen to that phonecall and then read again the search warrant. I trully believe there is a good chance Lee had someone with him when he was asking those questions to Casey.

Exactly my point. I cannot find it on the NG transcript but it's the reporter that's been on her show nearly every night in regards to this case and he's from Fl. WBDO or something to that effect. Baez isn't an idiot and he doesn't want her speaking to them any more at this point!

[lilacwine]

Casey's purse was there too.... so maybe she meant literally that Casey and Caylee weren't in it....

She does mis speak sometimes which I don't think is untruthful... but probably nerves

[curiositycat]

I know this so well, wishingtree. My oldest child died many years ago, on September the 16th. It was one of those horrible sudden cardiac arrythmias, and completely unexpected. She was only 21.

I am unable to face the coming of September, and about this time every year, I know the day is coming. I do my best, but it is like a huge train bearing down on me. My husband struggles too. We are not ourselves until after her birthdate in mid-October.

But, we are not alone in grieving the loss of a child. Many struggle with the same huge hole in their hearts.

Ahhhhh. This post brought tears to my eyes! I am so sorry for your lost. I know the pain of losing family members way too early.
God Bless you both!

[Chesapeake]

I can put my clothes in the car for a few days and I don't think I would have to wash them.

Cindy said the clothes smelled like smoke because they had been in Tony's apartment not because they had been in the car.

[Elley Mae]

Did anyone notice that in the interview with Cindy, the recent one, that she says when they picked up the car and she found the pants, that there was no evidence of Casey or Caylee in the car? Yet if Caylee's carseat and these clothes and shoes and toys were in the car, couldn't you say that was evidence of Casey and Caylee? That point is confusing me.
I should really get some sleep.

Yes and when they picked up the the car at 3-4 oclock on Tuesday and the Police IIRC didn't pick it up until Thusday and it still smelled like decomp.

[DaisyBelle]

Hey - don't worry about it. Happens to the best of us, at one point or another!

Things are being thrown around so fast in this case its hard to keep up!!

[Bruce's_Mom]

I don't believe sociopaths are created by their families or their upbringing therefore I cannot under any circumstances view Casey as "screwed up by no fault of her own".If that is the case then, just exactly HOW did she get to be the way she is? There has to be a reason for it, and if she is actually a sociopath, then are you saying that she was BORN that way? If so, then she still had something thrust upon her through no fault of her own! What I'm trying to say here is that unless she is just a normal human being like the rest of us, and she has CHOSEN FOR HERSELF to behave the way she does, then there is reason for some compassion for her.

Psychopathy/sociopathy may indeed be organic, in fact researchers have discovered differences in the brain composition of those scoring high on the Hare Psychopathy checklist and those that are "normal" they problem psychopaths present is one of management and they force us to make a value choice of who will have our sympathy or compassion. Regardless of the organic nature it is the victims of these people who deserve our compassion at least in my opinion.

The psychopath is one of the most fascinating and distressing problems of human experience. For the most part, a psychopath never remains attached to anyone or anything. They live a "predatory" lifestyle. They feel little or no regret, and little or no remorse - except when they are caught. They need relationships, but see people as obstacles to overcome and be eliminated. If not, they see people in terms of how they can be used. They use people for stimulation, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value. A psychopath will invariably ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations and empty wallets without the slightest sense of guilt or regret. Psychiatric treatment generally does not work for these people, in fact it often makes them better at what they do, because it gives them new tools and insights into emotion that they otherwise are devoid of so they can manipulate people even more.

When you give them sympathy or pity you are giving them what they want, another tool to manipulate those around them with. The only thing that works to stop a psychopath is incapacitation period.

(I use the term psychopath deliberately because I believe the studies of Cleckley and Hare are more valid in describing personalities like Casey Anthony's that the APA's DSM-IV sociopath/APD label)

[kathyn2]

Theory Suggests Caylee Anthony Drowned In Family Pool

POSTED: 4:47 pm EDT August 8, 2008
UPDATED: 5:21 pm EDT August 8, 2008


ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Eyewitness News got details Friday of a working theory held by investigators that little Caylee may have drowned in the family swimming pool. A source close to the investigation revealed only to Channel 9 a working theory of the crime involving Caylee drowning and what may have happened next.

The source said some investigators believe a flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents on June 16 could be an indication that whatever happened to Caylee happened that day. On that day, Casey and Caylee were last seen together by Caylee's grandfather George at the Anthony family home where they lived.


www.wftv.com

[bluedevil21]

Just to be perfectly clear, I DID NOT misquote you! If you will notice in my post what I QUOTED you as saying has quotation marks around it!

im done with this juvenile argument after this, i promise. you implied that i said an individual learns basic ethics from school/society as opposed to home. i never implied that, even if you paraphrased and didnt use a direct citation. my original quote was:

"but no one taught casey "to lie and have no feelings from childhood." and regardless if her parents weren't mom and dad of the year, you learn basic ethics from school and society and life in general. i dont think you need to be taught, "dont kill your kid" in order to be held to such a standard. even if the death was negligently caused, i think an individual can be held totally accountable for their behavior. in fact, i think they should be."

nothing about home whatsoever, other than the fact that an individual doesnt need to be taught "dont murder" in order to understand the concept. so please dont get defensive and please dont put implied words in my mouth.

[Chica]

As to the cancelled visit between Lee and Casey last night on Nancy Grace it was stated by that one reporter that Casey's lawyer Jose Baez was quite suspicious and upset with the family, most especially that Lee working with LE and the FBI in regards to this case. It was also stated that their were "lines" being drawn in regards to furture visits etc.

And yet still they come out with yet another bald faced lie as to why Casey refused to see her brother Lee! Nobody in this family can be honest. I truly believe that they are people accusomed to lying even in the face of such scrutiny, and also when unnecessary!

I know this isn't a popular position to take, but I just can't help but to feel very sorry for this entire family (Casey excluded). I think a lot of times the family just says something (that might not be the truth) because it is the shortest, quickest way to get the media off their backs. I think they are hanging onto any hope that Caylee is alive and well somewhere...

Personally, I can't imagine - not only going through what this poor family is going through - but to go through it in the public eye...absolutely unimaginable. Although I think the best thing to do would be to not say anything when beseiged by the media, everyone doesn't think/act the same! As my mom always says, "It would be a pretty boring world if everyone throught the same". Afterall, like Cindy said, it isn't against the law to lie...I'll add that the exception, of course, is to lie law enforcement - THAT would be against the law!!

[shannon718]

Wow.....we worked on the drowning theory for hours days ago.....

[chrisg]

Actually murder is NOT what we are discussing here in the question I asked; I am asking specifically about sociopathic behavior. There has been no definitive conclusion that she was taught to lie and I NEVER said that there was. I also NEVER said that Casey is not a fault for her behavior. I have simply asked questions relating to how culpable a sociopathic person would be if the malady was not their fault to begin with.

I would suggest that if my questions regarding this issue is a problem for you, that you ignore what I have to say. As far as I know, there is not a single person on this board who knows everything there is to know about this case, and in that regard I believe that any questions/comments that I have are just as pertinent as those of anyone else.

IMO, We can't discuss this issue apart from the reason we are all here--a missing child and her possible murder. And your questions don't bother me but, again, if we are talking about Casey's behavior it does not make sense, IMO, to compartmentalize it and separate it by only addressing the lies but not the potential homicide--unless you are saying she is a liar and lacks empathy but is innocent w/ regard to Caylee's disappearance and possible death? Is that what you are saying?

[Elley Mae]

Kathlyn2 what I find interesting is Cindy calling 911 to report (her) car stolen, and on the other 911 call when it smells like a dead body has been in it, it's (her daughters) car.

[passin_through]

the atty not wanting Casey to talk to her brother is in this video
http://www.local6.com/news/17000968/detail.html?rss=orlpn&psp=news
VIDEO: Brother's Role Questioned (http://www.local6.com/news/17000968/detail.html?rss=orlpn&psp=news#) (31st video from top)
bad part is the info isn't until the end of the video 'bout 3/4 in

[Benji]

and please dont put implied words in my mouth.

As you did mine?

[bluedevil21]

I know this isn't a popular position to take, but I just can't help but to feel very sorry for this entire family (Casey excluded). I think a lot of times the family just says something (that might not be the truth) because it is the shortest, quickest way to get the media off their backs. I think they are hanging onto any hope that Caylee is alive and well somewhere...

Personally, I can't imagine - not only going through what this poor family is going through - but to go through it in the public eye...absolutely unimaginable. Although I think the best thing to do would be to not say anything when beseiged by the media, everyone doesn't think/act the same! As my mom always says, "It would be a pretty boring world if everyone throught the same". Afterall, like Cindy said, it isn't against the law to lie...I'll add that the exception, of course, is to lie law enforcement - THAT would be against the law!!

you make a good point. i will never forget cindy's 911 call, the one where she is sobbing about her granddaughter. regardless if she knew what she was getting into when she picked up the phone that day, she was clearly distraught over what transpired. and it makes me so angry that casey can sit there in silence and watch her parents fall apart. and even worse, be angry that they arent more concerned about her (ie the "all they care about is finding caylee" line of brilliance)...

[kathyn2]

Right, we did work on the drowning theory and I think Casey would be in a lot better position if she came clean if thats what happened. Alot better than she murdered her child and hid the body.

I wish everyone would take Casey's mental status to the thread intended for that. The chatter here is boring on that subject and isn't helpful in finding what happened to Caylee. Please take that chatter off this thread. Its boring to alot of us and it is alot to wade thru looking for something on topic of Caylee.

[shannon718]

you make a good point. i will never forget cindy's 911 call, the one where she is sobbing about her granddaughter. regardless if she knew what she was getting into when she picked up the phone that day, she was clearly distraught over what transpired. and it makes me so angry that casey can sit there in silence and watch her parents fall apart. and even worse, be angry that they arent more concerned about her (ie the "all they care about is finding caylee" line of brilliance)...

:clap::clap::clap:

[ketel0ne]

If they know Caylee is dead they should bring every charge they can in a stack manslaughter all the way down to the neglect and lying ones. Probably 20-30 total charges. Then peel them back for the location of Caylee and get Casey to talk. IMO they will never be able to prove Casey murdered her.

[murdershewrote]

an accidental drowning is possible....except why then was she so happy and partying it up the weeks following. That doesn't fit.

[chicoliving]

As you did mine?

STOP post about the case or don't post at all.

[logic13]

You can trace a forwarded message as it will still contain the headers from both senders. If it is sent as a reply it will not contain both headers.

That was my point.. you CAN fake the header

You type in the fake header below your message...

[kathyn2]

Yes, that is interesting but in my opinion the GPs had nothing to do with Caylee missing or covering it up. I think they have just been trying to keep their family life out of the public eye. I think they have told the truth to investigators.

Kathlyn2 what I find interesting is Cindy calling 911 to report (her) car stolen, and on the other 911 call when it smells like a dead body has been in it, it's (her daughters) car.

[wishingtree]

you make a good point. i will never forget cindy's 911 call, the one where she is sobbing about her granddaughter. regardless if she knew what she was getting into when she picked up the phone that day, she was clearly distraught over what transpired. and it makes me so angry that casey can sit there in silence and watch her parents fall apart. and even worse, be angry that they arent more concerned about her (ie the "all they care about is finding caylee" line of brilliance)...

Well said!! :clapping:

[shannon718]

Right, we did work on the drowning theory and I think Casey would be in a lot better position if she came clean if thats what happened. Alot better than she murdered her child and hid the body.

I wish everyone would take Casey's mental status to the thread intended for that. The chatter here is boring on that subject and isn't helpful in finding what happened to Caylee. Please take that chatter off this thread. Its boring to alot of us and it is alot to wade thru looking for something on topic of Caylee.

Unfortunately I still think she hid and moved the body. Too much evidence in the trunk, the shovel, the dog hits around the pool area etc. Just kills me to think about it. That poor little baby.

[ketel0ne]

Theory Suggests Caylee Anthony Drowned In Family Pool

POSTED: 4:47 pm EDT August 8, 2008
UPDATED: 5:21 pm EDT August 8, 2008


ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Eyewitness News got details Friday of a working theory held by investigators that little Caylee may have drowned in the family swimming pool. A source close to the investigation revealed only to Channel 9 a working theory of the crime involving Caylee drowning and what may have happened next.

The source said some investigators believe a flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents on June 16 could be an indication that whatever happened to Caylee happened that day. On that day, Casey and Caylee were last seen together by Caylee's grandfather George at the Anthony family home where they lived.


www.wftv.com (http://www.wftv.com)

And why didn't they answer those calls, and when they did next talked to Casey were they then getting the Tampa job story?

[kathyn2]

I also think Casey hid and moved the body which was her undoing. Its too bad no one answered the phone in that flurry of calls she made. Maybe this case would have turned out differently had her parents answered the phone.

[Benji]

IMO, We can't discuss this issue apart from the reason we are all here--a missing child and her possible murder. And your questions don't bother me but, again, if we are talking about Casey's behavior it does not make sense, IMO, to compartmentalize it and separate it by only addressing the lies but not the potential homicide--unless you are saying she is a liar and lacks empathy but is innocent w/ regard to Caylee's disappearance and possible death? Is that what you are saying?

No, that is not what I'm saying. As I said before, it is something that I don't completely understand, and because I have seen so many people say basically that she can't help herself, it brought me to the question that if that is true, then how can she be held responsible for her behavior. I understand things better when the explanation can be brought down to the very brass tacks and I can get all of my questions about them answered. I appreciate all who have stated their opinions in a respectful and informative manner, but to be attacked (and I'm not accusing YOU of doing this, but it has been done) for asking a question is not appreciated!

One other thing. If there is a separate thread for every aspect of this case, and no one is allowed to ask a question on the general debate thread, then what is the general debate thread here for? Just curious.

[kathyn2]

I would also like to know the parents and Lee's reasons for not answering their phones or calling back or if Casey left any messages to them? I wonder if LE has asked any of them if Casey left them a message? Or if LE has examined the parents cell phones?

[shannon718]

I also think Casey hid and moved the body which was her undoing. Its too bad no one answered the phone in that flurry of calls she made. Maybe this case would have turned out differently had her parents answered the phone.

She should have just called 911. Panic or no panic. So upsetting.

[Shutterfly]

IF Caylee drowned accidently or otherwise....then what was the shovel for if Casey only had it for an hour? Did she INTEND to bury the poor child in the yard in a panic and then realized she'd never get the hole dug alone..or that burying her there was a dumb idea, so instead she backed the car up to the garage and put her in the trunk...getting the gas cans along the way?

[kathyn2]

If there is already a thread for certain subjects then you are suppose to use that thread. The general thread is for general chatter and breaking news.
At least thats my opinion.

No, that is not what I'm saying. As I said before, it is something that I don't completely understand, and because I have seen so many people say basically that she can't help herself, it brought me to the question that if that is true, then how can she be held responsible for her behavior. I understand things better when the explanation can be brought down to the very brass tacks and I can get all of my questions about them answered. I appreciate all who have stated their opinions in a respectful and informative manner, but to be attacked (and I'm not accusing YOU of doing this, but it has been done) for asking a question is not appreciated!

One other thing. If there is a separate thread for every aspect of this case, and no one is allowed to ask a question on the general debate thread, then what is the general debate thread here for? Just curious.

[murdershewrote]

re the flurry of calls that Mark Fuhrman reported on. If she made all these calls (which I believe she did), then why didn't Cindy call her back. These calls would record on Cindy's cell as missed calls, right? So if Cindy got 5 or 6 or however many calls right in a row, why didn't she call her right back?

[absolut_alexis]

One other thing. If there is a separate thread for every aspect of this case, and no one is allowed to ask a question on the general debate thread, then what is the general debate thread here for? Just curious.


It is a general discussion thread.

[kathyn2]

She might have borrowed the shovel to pry open the shed to get the gas. Perhaps she didn't have much gas and no money and wanted to hide the body somewhere away from the home.

IF Caylee drowned accidently or otherwise....then what was the shovel for if Casey only had it for an hour? Did she INTEND to bury the poor child in the yard in a panic and then realized she'd never get the hole dug alone..or that burying her there was a dumb idea, so instead she backed the car up to the garage and put her in the trunk...getting the gas cans along the way?

[LI_Mom]

I read that post too. I have to admit I was surprised by it. My fiance is a professional in the tech business and knows a lot about hacker sites and can find crazy things online that I had no idea existed, but even he was dumbfounded last night when I asked him about the fake domain names for the email addresses. Casey must have really known a lot about little "tricks" available on the internet which I find interesting.

We really can't guess about the emails until we know for sure that Casey didn't write them herself.... she could have made up ANY return addresses she wanted to & then send the to this email account where Lee read them.

I bet she had a LOT of email accounts.... not just the one her family knew/knows about.

[absolut_alexis]

I wonder about this, too. Maybe she was driving or her phone was on silent or something.

re the flurry of calls that Mark Fuhrman reported on. If she made all these calls (which I believe she did), then why didn't Cindy call her back. These calls would record on Cindy's cell as missed calls, right? So if Cindy got 5 or 6 or however many calls right in a row, why didn't she call her right back?

[shannon718]

I would also like to know the parents and Lee's reasons for not answering their phones or calling back or if Casey left any messages to them? I wonder if LE has asked any of them if Casey left them a message? Or if LE has examined the parents cell phones?

Considering the time of day, I tend to believe they were all at work and weren't neccessarily paying attention to their phones incessant or not.. I don't really answer my phone while I'm working, sometimes I don't even have it right near me. Maybe she tried to call one of them at work hence the "business" number.

Im not sure there was a serious reason as to why they didn't answer her calls.

[passin_through]

but they say the shovel was borrowed the 18th and the shed was broken into sometime between the 22nd and 24th. no?

[Shutterfly]

She might have borrowed the shovel to pry open the shed to get the gas. Perhaps she didn't have much gas and no money and wanted to hide the body somewhere away from the home.

good point Kathryn...didn't occur to me she'd use the shovel to pry open the door...don't I feel stoopid now...duh.

[Chica]

I also think Casey hid and moved the body which was her undoing. Its too bad no one answered the phone in that flurry of calls she made. Maybe this case would have turned out differently had her parents answered the phone.

I totally agree with you, however, I don't in ANY way blame them for not answering their phones. I think it is a possibility that they were *finally* starting to practice some 'tough love' where Casey is concerned. I think they may have finally reached their limit as far as Casey's lying and stealing. Unfortunately, it is human nature that they will feel guilty...I just hope they can get come help so they realize it is NOT their fault, but Casey's and Casey's alone.

[kathyn2]

I wonder what Casey's demeanor was when she borrowed the shovel? Didn't she borrow it a couple of days later? I think she hid the body in the trunk til the 18th because she didn't know what to do and had to come up with a story. She may have brought the body to the house to do something with it and thats why the dogs smelled something in the yard. Then she realized what a futile effort it would be to dig a hole big enough for the body so she abandoned that idea. I believe she also used the shovel to open the shed and get the gas so she could drive the body elsewhere and hide it. Thats why they need an organization like TES to do a search for the body.

[LI_Mom]

re the flurry of calls that Mark Fuhrman reported on. If she made all these calls (which I believe she did), then why didn't Cindy call her back. These calls would record on Cindy's cell as missed calls, right? So if Cindy got 5 or 6 or however many calls right in a row, why didn't she call her right back?

Something Cindy said bothers me....

(paraphrasing)

Casey always called me if something was wrong w/ Caylee... ('if she was pulling on her ear' was one example she gave) then why didn't she call me if Caylee had an accident? If something was wrong, she would have called me.



But we know that Casey DID call her mother, father AND brother that afternoon & NOBODY picked up their phone. And we know she tried calling again a couple of hours later!

The reason this bothers me.... Cindy HAD to have known about the calls that WE knew about. This 'excuse' she's making does NOTHING to make Casey look any more innocent.... it really only helps build a case AGAINST Casey.

Is Cindy passive-aggressive or just dumb?? I don't get her.

[shannon718]

IF Caylee drowned accidently or otherwise....then what was the shovel for if Casey only had it for an hour? Did she INTEND to bury the poor child in the yard in a panic and then realized she'd never get the hole dug alone..or that burying her there was a dumb idea, so instead she backed the car up to the garage and put her in the trunk...getting the gas cans along the way?

I don't know about the gas cans but bingo on the rest of it. I don't think she put Caylee in the trunk when she packed up to the garage. I think she had BEEN in the trunk.

[wishingtree]

We really can't guess about the emails until we know for sure that Casey didn't write them herself.... she could have made up ANY return addresses she wanted to & then send the to this email account where Lee read them.

I bet she had a LOT of email accounts.... not just the one her family knew/knows about.

I agree. I respectfully removed myself from that debate when it got a little heated and it was explained more clearly to me. :)

[bluedevil21]

I totally agree with you, however, I don't in ANY way blame them for not answering their phones. I think it is a possibility that they were *finally* starting to practice some 'tough love' where Casey is concerned. I think they may have finally reached their limit as far as Casey's lying and stealing. Unfortunately, it is human nature that they will feel guilty...I just hope they can get come help so they realize it is NOT their fault, but Casey's and Casey's alone.

absolutely agree about tough love. i think this goes back to the police report about the shed and the original 911 call. george and cindy weren't looking to have casey arrested - they wanted to teach her a lesson. little did they know how deep the hole casey had dug herself into really was...

and i think that explains their all-over-the-place lies. i dont think they are necessarily covering up for her, i think they just refuse to see their daughter as a murderer and will paint her in whatever positive light they can hold onto, until definitively proven otherwise...

[OneLostGrl]

If there is already a thread for certain subjects then you are suppose to use that thread. The general thread is for general chatter and breaking news.
At least thats my opinion.

I have been trying to say this to people all day! it is distracting here on the gen discussion thread!

[cindilou]

re the flurry of calls that Mark Fuhrman reported on. If she made all these calls (which I believe she did), then why didn't Cindy call her back. These calls would record on Cindy's cell as missed calls, right? So if Cindy got 5 or 6 or however many calls right in a row, why didn't she call her right back?

maybe there was a fight.. and maybe it was Cindy who kicked Casey out, and she figured Casey was calling to beg her to let her stay?

[shannon718]

I wonder what Casey's demeanor was when she borrowed the shovel? Didn't she borrow it a couple of days later? I think she hid the body in the trunk til the 18th because she didn't know what to do and had to come up with a story. She may have brought the body to the house to do something with it and thats why the dogs smelled something in the yard. Then she realized what a futile effort it would be to dig a hole big enough for the body so she abandoned that idea. I believe she also used the shovel to open the shed and get the gas so she could drive the body elsewhere and hide it. Thats why they need an organization like TES to do a search for the body.

Yup. But I think the dogs hit in the backyard from when Casey removed her from the pool. I think the 3 different spots they hit show she kept moving her around in a panic not knowing what to do. It has been established that it doesn't take long at all for fluids to leak (minutes) from a dead body as well as gases.

Playhouse (could have hidden her in there while panicking)
Sandbox
Corner of pool

I do feel the gas cans came in at a later time though. Breaking into the shed would have caused ALOT of noise and the neighbor would have mentioned it...also I think she is too tiny to break a shed with a shovel. Not strong enough at all.

[Chilly Willy]

I don't buy the theory that Casey borrowed the shovel in order to break into the shed. A shovel would be the last tool someone would use for that purpose. Better to borrow a hammer or a crow bar. It would be next to impossible to wield a large shovel with enough force and accurate enough aim to break open a lock. Plus all that banging would make a heck of a racket. No one reported hearing anything unusual.

[TravelingBug]

I also think Casey hid and moved the body which was her undoing. Its too bad no one answered the phone in that flurry of calls she made. Maybe this case would have turned out differently had her parents answered the phone.

I wonder what Casey told them when surely they ASKED her later on what was up when they both had a ton of (unanswered) calls from her within two short windows.

I mean, I know if I have a ton of missed calls from someone (heck, even a few) in a short window I'd call back and one of the first things I'd ask was what was up, what had been going on, was everything ok, etc.

[kathyn2]

Oh, I don't blame the parents at all for not answering their phone. I just wish someone with some sense had answered it and they would have known what happened to Caylee. I do think she is dead due to an accident and Casey couldn't face telling them later. I think in her panic she would have told them but as time went on she couldn't bring herself to tell them and made up that other story and carried on with her life like nothing happened. Maybe even to throw people off the scent that he daughter was dead. Pretend all was well to everyone.


I totally agree with you, however, I don't in ANY way blame them for not answering their phones. I think it is a possibility that they were *finally* starting to practice some 'tough love' where Casey is concerned. I think they may have finally reached their limit as far as Casey's lying and stealing. Unfortunately, it is human nature that they will feel guilty...I just hope they can get come help so they realize it is NOT their fault, but Casey's and Casey's alone.

[keeponsearching]

I think if Caylee did drown. Than Casey would of called 911 and came up with a good lie to get her out of trouble..... For example, she went inside to get Caylee a drink, and it was just for a second.. And forgot the ladder was out..

[OneLostGrl]

I find myself wondering at times what would have happened if Cindy and George had answered Casey's calls that day.

[ShannonOhara]

I dont post here much but read all your comments as often as life allows me too. This case tugs at my heart. I have in my head all kind of theories and scenarios of what "could have" happened and why.
But most of all, in my heart I am overwhelmed with sadness for the child that is at the center of this investigation. It is truly heartbreaking.
I also feel like the guilty party will somehow cut a deal and walk, not really fair is it.

[Chica]

...i dont think they are necessarily covering up for her, i think they just refuse to see their daughter as a murderer and will paint her in whatever positive light they can hold onto, until definitively proven otherwise...

I absolutely agree...who would ever want to believe your child could possibly do anything bad to anyone, much less their own child . . . much less have their grandchild end up dead . . . even if it is death by accident, who would want to believe their own child could possibly cover it up . . . and make the rest of the family/friends/country go through the pain and agony of worrying and wondering...it is just to painful to even imagine...

[cindilou]

I think if Caylee did drown. Than Casey would of called 911 and came up with a good lie to get her out of trouble..... For example, she went inside to get Caylee a drink, and it was just for a second.. And forgot the ladder was out..

i agree.. i just don't buy the drowning theory. Just too easy to get out of for Casey!

[suspicious mind]

"What it is going to take (to find Caylee) is for more people to be looking and we don't feel that is happening," Baez said. "We feel that people have already written Casey off as having done something terrible and that is not the case. There is no evidence of that. There hasn't been any evidence presented of that. It is quite disturbing. But until you find this missing child, she is missing. We are getting very frustrated that no one is out there looking for her."

Earth to Baez....:confused:

[chicoliving]

I find myself wondering at times what would have happened if Cindy and George had answered Casey's calls that day.

I imagine they do too. Rough spot to be in right now.

[RoseRed]

i dont think you need to be taught, "dont kill your kid" in order to be held to such a standard. even if the death was negligently caused, i think an individual can be held totally accountable for their behavior. in fact, i think they should be."



Then all the posts regarding Mental health issues, socoipath, physopath, etc. are a total waste of time and bandwidth and is just a polite of smearing an individual.

[bluedevil21]

at this point, are we under general consensus that lee created the fake email from universal or casey? i am confused, im sorry if this has been addressed.

also: i apologize for any distraction that i personally caused. i love this community, i wouldnt jeopardize my place in it. and for that, i am truly sorry. i tried to drop the issue and i tried using PM. i respect you all, even if we disagree at times, and i never meant to annoy anyone, especially those who i have been discussing this case with for weeks...

[scuseme]

Where can I find the "fake email" that you all are talking about?

[kathyn2]

Wow, I didn't know that about how quickly the body releases gasses a dog can smell. I figured she had to bring the body back later in order to have left the odor. It is possible the body was out in the hot sun for quite a while too while she pondered what to do and it is odd that ladder was set up there when Cindy had put it away from the pool.

And think about it....Casey knew Cindy kept that ladder away from the pool and Casey was probably negligent and put the ladder up and went off and wasn't watching Caylee for a few minutes and it happened. Casey knew her mom would blow a gasket since the family was so careful about Caylee. If this is what really happened its a shame the whole family, including Casey is going thru all of this. It would have been so much better if Casey had just told the truth from the beginning and called 911. I wonder if she left caylee out in the back for a long time alone?

One other thing....the parents always thought that Casey went off to work every day but Casey didn't work. I bet after her parents left she availed herself of the house and pool while they didn't know she was around. She wouldn't have anywhere else to spend her days.


Yup. But I think the dogs hit in the backyard from when Casey removed her from the pool. I think the 3 different spots they hit show she kept moving her around in a panic not knowing what to do. It has been established that it doesn't take long at all for fluids to leak (minutes) from a dead body as well as gases.

Playhouse (could have hidden her in there while panicking)
Sandbox
Corner of pool

[Chilly Willy]

Something Cindy said bothers me....

(paraphrasing)

Casey always called me if something was wrong w/ Caylee... ('if she was pulling on her ear' was one example she gave) then why didn't she call me if Caylee had an accident? If something was wrong, she would have called me.



But we know that Casey DID call her mother, father AND brother that afternoon & NOBODY picked up their phone. And we know she tried calling again a couple of hours later!

The reason this bothers me.... Cindy HAD to have known about the calls that WE knew about. This 'excuse' she's making does NOTHING to make Casey look any more innocent.... it really only helps build a case AGAINST Casey.

Is Cindy passive-aggressive or just dumb?? I don't get her.

I'm totally missing the point of your post. What excuse has Cindy given about not answering the calls? Even if Casey called Cindy every time Caylee sneezed, that does not mean Casey didn't also call for other reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with Caylee. I don't think it's a matter of Cindy being passive-agressive or dumb - she's telling the truth, that's all. Funny how people accuse her of obstructing justice while at the same time accuse her of doing things to make matters look worse for Casey. Poor woman can't win.

[chrisg]

She might have borrowed the shovel to pry open the shed to get the gas. Perhaps she didn't have much gas and no money and wanted to hide the body somewhere away from the home.

I also think she borrowed the shovel to open the shed and then--if she still needed a shovel--she took one from her parents' shed. She may have wanted to get a number of potential things from the shed: another shovel to take with her, the gas cannisters, maybe even a tarp possibly to wrap the body in.

And as far as the gas goes, she may also have needed the gas in the cannisters to burn the body rather than just needing it for gas and/or--if she traveled far w/ the body--she would not want to stop for gas and leave a receipt trail or take the risk of being sighted that far away from home (even if she paid for the gas in cash).

[shannon718]

I think if Caylee did drown. Than Casey would of called 911 and came up with a good lie to get her out of trouble..... For example, she went inside to get Caylee a drink, and it was just for a second.. And forgot the ladder was out..

I don't agree and this has been discussed at length before. Alot of people feel that if you follow Casey's unbelievable propensity for lying and covering up (stealing from Amy H. the dog story, etc) along with the fact that she is accountable for NOTHING, it seems that she would be selfish and protect herself. She wouldn't call 911. Who knows how long Caylee was in that pool before she found her. She panicked.

Casey cares about Casey period. We see it through her actions every day.

[Benji]

STOP post about the case or don't post at all.

Are you a mod?

[Shutterfly]

I don't know how else to ask this so I'm just going to come out with it. Please don't anyone think badly of me because I feel that I have to consider this a possibility.
The gas cans... If Caylee drowned and Casey took the gas cans to do the "unthinkable" and then actually DID do the unthinkable, is it possible to...ummm....burn a body...and no trace of it be left unless someone knows a very specific location in which to look for evidence of that body? IF she did that..is it possible that Caylee is "gone" completely and that they may never find that poor child?

[shannon718]

I also think she borrowed the shovel to open the shed and then--if she still needed a shovel--she took one from her parents' shed.

She may also have needed the gas in the cannisters to burn the body rather than just needing it for gas and/or--if she traveled far w/ the body--not wanted to stop for gas and leave a receipt trail or take the risk of being sighted that far away from home (even if she paid for the gas in cash).

Sorry. You cant burn a body that way. The fire doesnt get hot enough and the smell would stretch farther than you would ever imagine.

She may have taken the gas to burn evidence but not a body.

[OneLostGrl]

I'm sorry I was blowing margins y'all! I had no clue- I fixed it! Thanks magicrose for letting me know :)

[impatientredhead]

i agree.. i just don't buy the drowning theory. Just too easy to get out of for Casey!

I don't get either. Wouldn't she have screamed when she saw her in the pool, yelled for help, called 911. The neighbors would have heard something, they even noted that she backed into the driveway which was unusual. The houses there are close together. So she finds Caylee accidently drowned and she goes into cover up mode? Caylee being gone is easier to explain than accident in backyard where they live? And then she goes out partying for a month?

[TXRN]

Wow, after reading here for the last several weeks, I am finally a registered user authorized to post. I will be as brief and succinct as I can. I have been amazed at the tenacity with which posters have researched and shown concern for Caylee. As many of you, I have been unable to get her out of my mind. However, lately, the negativity and judgment that has been directed at Casey and the Anthony's in general, especially Cindy, I find troubling. We are not in her shoes, and the purpose of this forum as I understand it is to "sleuth" behind the scenes with the goal of assisting in finding this dear little one. So, no place for that really seems to exist here. I see Cindy Anthony as behaving very normal for all of the events related to this case, and I have followed multiple sources very closely. Before making judgments, I encourage others to do so as well. In addition, the conjecture and amateur diagnosis of Casey in regards to the mental health realm, regardless of what a poster's credentials are, is highly slanderous and unprofessional without a proper assessment of her. We need to pray for Caylee, love our children and ones close to us, and keep our eyes open for other vulnerable members of our society that may need us to step up and intervene for them, prior to a tragedy such as this. I choose to believe she is alive, but my ability to do that is waning.

I greatly appreciate the ability to access the links to media, documents, and myspace profiles that have been posted here, and request forgiveness if I have offended anyone. But...many of the comments are just juvenile at this point and frankly....mean. This is about a missing little girl....who was loved by all involved, including Casey, I believe that with my whole heart. Something went wrong, or a chain of events leading to disaster, she is troubled, but I saw true love when she looked at her daughter in the photos. I also had the opportunity to view the webshots pics of her and Caylee at birth and immediately following, I was impressed that a young girl such as Casey would take the time to nurse her baby, many young girls do not want to be bothered. Those pictures have since been taken down, but they showed a much different side. I fear she made some horrible mistakes, but I personally feel it was an accident and she is a habitual liar and is afraid or unable to stop the lying at this point.

The pictures taken at Fusian on June 20th (the blue dress), has anyone noticed that there is a different look in her eyes in them, it is almost like she is faking a smile and posing with no joy in her smile,just going through the actions. I wonder if this after something had happened to Caylee, probably did according to the timeline, and she was in a total state of ??????? that we can't define. I am not willing to judge her as I'm not her age in her shoes. I just try to understand and remember to love the ones around me and keep my eyes out for vulnerable people around us that need our support and caring....

Thank you for any of you who took the time to read my LOOONNNNNG post, and if I get banned, my intentions were good!

[DagNasty]

Are you a mod?

Yes, yes he is