PDA

View Full Version : Autopsy Report - 13 Fatal wounds ***DISCUSSION***


Snowlover77
08-08-2008, 11:25 PM
New information on the girls wounds at www.foxnews.com (http://www.foxnews.com).

SieSie
08-10-2008, 11:25 PM
I can't find the actual autopsy report, but found this information from KJRH (http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/2viewgc/story.aspx?content_id=74c02efb-fedd-4d4f-a3f0-b71c38edb052):

Autopsy results released Friday on two girls who were gunned down while walking on a country road show one had five gunshot wounds and the other had eight.

Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and her friend, Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, were shot on June 8 a half-mile north of Taylor's home in the small town of Weleetka, 70 miles south of Tulsa. No arrests have been made.

The state Medical Examiner's office said the younger girl had eight wounds to the arms, chest, abdomen and neck, and the older girl had five gunshot wounds to the head, groin and hand.

Investigators say two different guns were used, leading to the presumption at least two people were involved. The isolated nature of the crime scene has led investigators to theorize local people might have been involved. No motive has been identified.

The autopsies did not indicate any sexual trauma to the girls.

and this from NewsOK (http://newsok.com/autopsy-results-offer-clues-in-two-girls-slayings-near-weleetka/article/3281166):

Taylor was shot a total of five times, three of which were in the face, one was in the groin and once in her right hand, but according to the report, the shot to the hand could have been one of the same shots that struck her in the head. Two of the shots were ruled potentially fatal.

Skyla was shot a total of eight times, including one shot to the neck, and seven spread out widely around the arms and torso.

Tom'sGirl
08-11-2008, 12:06 PM
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION BY MEDICAL EXAMINER/Skylar Whitaker

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf (http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf)

REPORT OF INVESTIGATION BY MEDICAL EXAMINER/Taylor Dawn Paschal
http://downloads.newsok.com/document...al_autopsy.pdf (http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Taylor_Dawn_Paschal_autopsy.pdf)

SieSie
08-12-2008, 10:38 PM
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION BY MEDICAL EXAMINER/Skylar Whitaker

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf (http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf)

REPORT OF INVESTIGATION BY MEDICAL EXAMINER/Taylor Dawn Paschal
http://downloads.newsok.com/document...al_autopsy.pdf (http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Taylor_Dawn_Paschal_autopsy.pdf)
TYSM Tom'sGirl!!

KoldKase
11-25-2008, 06:24 PM
Sorry I am quite ignorant of this case, but if I may ask, if anyone knows, who carved the "Z" on the child's upper leg in the back? Is was "scabbed", so obviously it was done at least within a few days of the murder. I don't think she did that to herself, as it would have been very awkward to reach.

This may be common knowledge, so again, sorry to jump in with questions. I'll keep reading as I have time.

KoldKase
11-25-2008, 09:16 PM
Okay, I've looked at both autopsies, as best I can, and just wish someone professional could read it for us in lay terms. The "backward" and "forward" information about the shots confuses me. I'll have to look that up.

What I can ponder is the gunshots were mostly from the front, as far as I can tell. The 13 year old, Taylor, who was shot three times in the face and once in the neck, seems to have been closer to one shot than any of the others and closer to her killer's gun than the other child, Skyla, was to the shots fired at her. Well, that may or may not be true, as I can't really read an autopsy report, obviously, but I'm THINKING this because one shot had stippling from the gun powder, IF I'm reading this correctly. This makes me wonder, with the shots being to the face and her being the older, if possibly her attack was more personal--in the face.

Also, I can't make out what would have caused the abrasion on Taylor's cheek. Did she get that falling on something, or did she get hit by one of the assailants? With the gun butt--the size of the abrasion being small but the M. E.'s drawing makes it look brutal? Surely they'd have found traces of metals or oils, or a pattern of some kind from the shape or texture of the gun if that was the case...? Maybe not, just some thoughts.

So the killers just shot these children like dogs. No sexual assault at all. That's a bit odd, too, considering a killer, particularly more than one, would seem to have no boundaries that would stop two of them from further abusing the girls. So that leads me to wonder if the killers were immature and new at this kind of crime, afraid of getting caught if they lingered too long or tried to kidnap the girls to take them somewhere private first? Or perhaps they had nowhere to take them, being minors or living with relatives?

Most adult males who are this depraved would have thought of securing a location for sexual abuse, it would seem to me, if they were experienced criminals before killing the girls. Unless this was a random attack, which came out of the blue, somehow provoked during a chance encounter, asking for directions or something.

Of course, no one knows the actual pathology of a killer until you know the killer, but no sexual assault makes me wonder if one or more of the assailants was a female. Just thinking...nothing more.

One thing that I'm also wondering: if the killer hit Taylor on the face, were there footprints? She seems to have dropped to her left knee--abrasions there, and that would seem to come from being hit on the right side on her upper cheek. I wonder what the positions of the bodies were when discovered. LE might not know, as the family who found them might have moved them, naturally enough, of course. God help them.

The other child, Skyla, seems to have been shot rather impersonally, mostly in the chest and abdomen area.

The thing is, were these children trying to run away? Skyla has a couple of shots that may have been her turning around, or maybe she was whipped around by the shots, I don't know. Taylor had her hand up to protect herself, which is when she was shot through the hand, but that's about all the time she seems to have had to react before she was dead. So it would seem there were two killers. Otherwise, one at least would have begun to run, it seems to me. And that would have meant one killer would have used the same gun on the one running, to stop her? Could have, I can't remember if the autopsy specified exactly what caliber bullets were used on each shot, so I'll have to look at that again.

Let's say Taylor was shot first: in the face, relatively small target zone, three or four quick shots; then one in the groin as she lay there, it seems, the bullet traveling upward through her body all the way to her lungs and torso, if I remember correctly. So it would take a second or two for the body to fall backward, when that last shot was fired, unless the killer came back to shoot that one, which is possible. (This is where the issue is important of which gun was used on which child, or both? I don't know, I'm just winging it here.) It would take a few seconds at least to get off five shots that hit your target, I'd think. Those shots were none of them point blank, gun to face, and only one had any stippling from one shot, so the killer had to be a couple of feet or more away, right? So what was Skyla doing once the shots started?

She might have been too scared to run. It happened fast, it appears. But she was hit by a small caliber bullet in at least one shot, if I am remembering my quick read of the autopsy. So that would be the second gun, because Taylor had a medium size bullet found in her, right? So this has me wondering if both girls were shot at about the same time, giving neither a chance to react.

But there was no fighting other than the abrasion on Taylor's cheek and knee that I can see. Though there were abrasions on the back of Skyla's legs and buttocks...or am I misremembering this? Sorry, I'll have to go back to study these and do some research when I have more time. Unless someone else has done this already and if so, thanks in advance and can you tell me where to find it?

I guess what I'm wondering is, did they know their killers? Or did they simply trust strangers who stopped and shot them so brutally, not thinking to run, not panicking, not suspecting strangers could be so wantonly monstrous?

Surely LE has evidence of tire tracks, footprints, blood spatter, bullets and therefore knows the models of the guns used.

Well, don't pay too much attention to what I'm speculating on, because I haven't looked at this more than the short news bites before today. I hope it's just a matter of time before these killers are caught. If there were two of them, they may turn on each other. Or one of them may not be able to keep it quiet, may brag or repent...or let it slip while drunk. I hope....

gertrude-gertie
11-25-2008, 09:36 PM
Wow KK -- You are quite quick on interpreting this case. Everything you have stated is basically true. Everyone on here have reviewed and gone over everything you have stated. This has all been disgusted and agreed upon. The only problem is, we have no facts from OSBI or local LE. Your questions are our questions. You will probably need to read the original posts from everyone and review the TV publications. That may also add some insight.

I don't know where everyone else is tonight but they could enlighten you and bring you up to speed a little more than I can. There is a lot of family involvement as well that you would have to research on here. I'm sure you would find it very interesting.

Take care. Good luck on your research. You seem to know exactly what you are talking about.

Please excuse the typing errors. LOL

Ruflossn
11-25-2008, 09:52 PM
KoldKase~
Thanks for your input!

KoldKase
11-25-2008, 09:55 PM
Wow KK -- You are quite quick on interpreting this case. Everything you have stated is basically true. Everyone on here have reviewed and gone over everything you have stated. This has all been disgusted and agreed upon. The only problem is, we have no facts from OSBI or local LE. Your questions are our questions. You will probably need to read the original posts from everyone and review the TV publications. That may also add some insight.

I don't know where everyone else is tonight but they could enlighten you and bring you up to speed a little more than I can. There is a lot of family involvement as well that you would have to research on here. I'm sure you would find it very interesting.

Take care. Good luck on your research. You seem to know exactly what you are talking about.

Please excuse the typing errors. LOL

Thanks for the encouragement. I know others have been at this case for months now, so I hope I don't offend anyone. I don't know "exactly" what I'm talking about, but I have spent 12 years learning about LE and crime scene investigation from the "armchair detective" perspective, mostly studing the JonBenet Ramsey case, so that's where I've learned what I do know.

Thanks again. And not to worry about typing errors, we all make 'em!

gertrude-gertie
11-25-2008, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the encouragement. I know others have been at this case for months now, so I hope I don't offend anyone. I don't know "exactly" what I'm talking about, but I have spent 12 years learning about LE and crime scene investigation from the "armchair detective" perspective, mostly studing the JonBenet Ramsey case, so that's where I've learned what I do know.

Thanks again. And not to worry about typing errors, we all make 'em!Oh, I don't think you would offend anyone. It is nice to see someone else's perspective since all of us have looked at these murders over and over again. You may see something new. We all appreciate your input.

Gertie

ArizonaGiGi
12-01-2008, 01:06 AM
I am very new to autopsy reading and am also a little befuddled by the backward and forward but I think that the backward means shot from the back and forward from the front.

I just re-read the reports and it seems Skyla has a number of shot entrances in the back and the exit is in the front. Can't get to the notes at this moment to count how many but I wonder was she running? Skyla has an Atypical exit wound. Anybody know what that means exactly? Also Skyla has gray powder on her face down her neck. NOT soot or stippling, the report says. What?:confused:

Ruflossn
12-01-2008, 07:49 AM
Hi GiGi~
imo~ the reason that Skyla has gun shot entrances in her back is because Taylor was shot first. When Skyla realised the danger, she turned to run. Hence the entrance wounds from the back. I also think that maybe the force of the gun shots, propelled her body, sideways and probably somewhat backwards. I have a lot of notes on the autopsies. A retired LE helped me w/ them. I will get back to you on this. I am headed out the door. Snow / ice on the ground this morning. I have to leave earlier than usual.

Flossie

Claycat
12-01-2008, 10:35 AM
I believe that is true about Skyla trying to run. The autopsy definitely appears to show that. I get that image in my mind's eye.

YellowDog
12-01-2008, 11:12 AM
Sorry I am quite ignorant of this case, but if I may ask, if anyone knows, who carved the "Z" on the child's upper leg in the back? Is was "scabbed", so obviously it was done at least within a few days of the murder. I don't think she did that to herself, as it would have been very awkward to reach.

This may be common knowledge, so again, sorry to jump in with questions. I'll keep reading as I have time.

I've felt from the very beginning that the markings on the girls bodies could hold some important clues.

Claycat
12-01-2008, 12:15 PM
Yellow Dog, the markings were all about Zac Efron and High School Musical. They were trying to give themselves Zac tattoos. They had Zac and Zanessa written on themselves with markers. They were the ultimate fans. They died with their hero's name on their bodies! :(

That's why I put the two HSM 3 magazines at the memorial.

YellowDog
12-01-2008, 01:57 PM
Yellow Dog, the markings were all about Zac Efron and High School Musical. They were trying to give themselves Zac tattoos. They had Zac and Zanessa written on themselves with markers. They were the ultimate fans. They died with their hero's name on their bodies! :(

That's why I put the two HSM 3 magazines at the memorial.

Well, maybe, but I'm not convinced of that.

ArizonaGiGi
12-03-2008, 02:26 AM
Yellowdog, what do you think the reasons might be for the markings?
I just assumed it was a connection to High School Musical and never really considered much else.
I would be interested in your theory.

Mysterylover
12-03-2008, 08:24 AM
I am very new to autopsy reading and am also a little befuddled by the backward and forward but I think that the backward means shot from the back and forward from the front.

I just re-read the reports and it seems Skyla has a number of shot entrances in the back and the exit is in the front. Can't get to the notes at this moment to count how many but I wonder was she running?

Skyla has an Atypical exit wound.

Anybody know what that means exactly? Also Skyla has gray powder on her face down her neck.
NOT soot or stippling, the report says.... What?:...confused:.....

ArizonaZ...Good find and good questions, was the girls running from someone?

Could the GRAY Powder on Skyla's face and neck be a clue to where and what the girls was doing immediately before the shooting....does the autopsy say it isn't soot from a truck tail pipe? What about weed/brush spray, from power-line spray? Would it be some type tattoo powder? What about camp-fire ashes?

I assume it isn't finger-print powder....so what is the gray powder on Skyla's face and neck.?.

YellowDog
12-03-2008, 11:16 PM
Yellowdog, what do you think the reasons might be for the markings?
I just assumed it was a connection to High School Musical and never really considered much else.
I would be interested in your theory.

Well, some of them were in awkward places that would be hard to place yourself. I was wondering if someone had more or less "branded" them as in a possessive sort of way.

ArizonaGiGi
12-04-2008, 01:13 AM
Skyla has the letter "Z" scab on the back of her leg and that would be impossible for her to do to herself but I wonder if Taylor didn't do it for her?
They both loved Zac from High School Musical. But that's just my guess.

Mysterylover
12-04-2008, 09:46 AM
Well, maybe, but I'm not convinced of that.....

YellowDog, I'm not convinced either....Let's trust LE has looked deeper into this...
tattoo's behind upper legs, like a gang brand...very disturbing and strange...imo

debbie0604
12-25-2008, 12:40 AM
Okay, I've looked at both autopsies, as best I can, and just wish someone professional could read it for us in lay terms. The "backward" and "forward" information about the shots confuses me. I'll have to look that up.

What I can ponder is the gunshots were mostly from the front, as far as I can tell. The 13 year old, Taylor, who was shot three times in the face and once in the neck, seems to have been closer to one shot than any of the others and closer to her killer's gun than the other child, Skyla, was to the shots fired at her. Well, that may or may not be true, as I can't really read an autopsy report, obviously, but I'm THINKING this because one shot had stippling from the gun powder, IF I'm reading this correctly. This makes me wonder, with the shots being to the face and her being the older, if possibly her attack was more personal--in the face.

Also, I can't make out what would have caused the abrasion on Taylor's cheek. Did she get that falling on something, or did she get hit by one of the assailants? With the gun butt--the size of the abrasion being small but the M. E.'s drawing makes it look brutal? Surely they'd have found traces of metals or oils, or a pattern of some kind from the shape or texture of the gun if that was the case...? Maybe not, just some thoughts.

So the killers just shot these children like dogs. No sexual assault at all. That's a bit odd, too, considering a killer, particularly more than one, would seem to have no boundaries that would stop two of them from further abusing the girls. So that leads me to wonder if the killers were immature and new at this kind of crime, afraid of getting caught if they lingered too long or tried to kidnap the girls to take them somewhere private first? Or perhaps they had nowhere to take them, being minors or living with relatives?

Most adult males who are this depraved would have thought of securing a location for sexual abuse, it would seem to me, if they were experienced criminals before killing the girls. Unless this was a random attack, which came out of the blue, somehow provoked during a chance encounter, asking for directions or something.

Of course, no one knows the actual pathology of a killer until you know the killer, but no sexual assault makes me wonder if one or more of the assailants was a female. Just thinking...nothing more.

One thing that I'm also wondering: if the killer hit Taylor on the face, were there footprints? She seems to have dropped to her left knee--abrasions there, and that would seem to come from being hit on the right side on her upper cheek. I wonder what the positions of the bodies were when discovered. LE might not know, as the family who found them might have moved them, naturally enough, of course. God help them.

The other child, Skyla, seems to have been shot rather impersonally, mostly in the chest and abdomen area.

The thing is, were these children trying to run away? Skyla has a couple of shots that may have been her turning around, or maybe she was whipped around by the shots, I don't know. Taylor had her hand up to protect herself, which is when she was shot through the hand, but that's about all the time she seems to have had to react before she was dead. So it would seem there were two killers. Otherwise, one at least would have begun to run, it seems to me. And that would have meant one killer would have used the same gun on the one running, to stop her? Could have, I can't remember if the autopsy specified exactly what caliber bullets were used on each shot, so I'll have to look at that again.

Let's say Taylor was shot first: in the face, relatively small target zone, three or four quick shots; then one in the groin as she lay there, it seems, the bullet traveling upward through her body all the way to her lungs and torso, if I remember correctly. So it would take a second or two for the body to fall backward, when that last shot was fired, unless the killer came back to shoot that one, which is possible. (This is where the issue is important of which gun was used on which child, or both? I don't know, I'm just winging it here.) It would take a few seconds at least to get off five shots that hit your target, I'd think. Those shots were none of them point blank, gun to face, and only one had any stippling from one shot, so the killer had to be a couple of feet or more away, right? So what was Skyla doing once the shots started?

She might have been too scared to run. It happened fast, it appears. But she was hit by a small caliber bullet in at least one shot, if I am remembering my quick read of the autopsy. So that would be the second gun, because Taylor had a medium size bullet found in her, right? So this has me wondering if both girls were shot at about the same time, giving neither a chance to react.

But there was no fighting other than the abrasion on Taylor's cheek and knee that I can see. Though there were abrasions on the back of Skyla's legs and buttocks...or am I misremembering this? Sorry, I'll have to go back to study these and do some research when I have more time. Unless someone else has done this already and if so, thanks in advance and can you tell me where to find it?

I guess what I'm wondering is, did they know their killers? Or did they simply trust strangers who stopped and shot them so brutally, not thinking to run, not panicking, not suspecting strangers could be so wantonly monstrous?

Surely LE has evidence of tire tracks, footprints, blood spatter, bullets and therefore knows the models of the guns used.

Well, don't pay too much attention to what I'm speculating on, because I haven't looked at this more than the short news bites before today. I hope it's just a matter of time before these killers are caught. If there were two of them, they may turn on each other. Or one of them may not be able to keep it quiet, may brag or repent...or let it slip while drunk. I hope....
I work in Pathology, and am familiar with autopsy reports. The bullets entered their bodies in a forward motion, or in some of the wounds "a slightly forward" motion, and exited (left their bodies) in the same way. This is the "Direction" of the path of the bullet. It seems to me that the girls were facing the shooter(s). Also, the ME indicates in the autopsy report that both girls were found by the grandfather lying "supine" (lying on the back). It wound seem to me that if the girls were running away from the shooter(s) that they would have been found "prostrate" or (face down). Just my opinion.

little726
12-25-2008, 10:42 AM
I work in Pathology, and am familiar with autopsy reports. The bullets entered their bodies in a forward motion, or in some of the wounds "a slightly forward" motion, and exited (left their bodies) in the same way. This is the "Direction" of the path of the bullet. It seems to me that the girls were facing the shooter(s). Also, the ME indicates in the autopsy report that both girls were found by the grandfather lying "supine" (lying on the back). It wound seem to me that if the girls were running away from the shooter(s) that they would have been found "prostrate" or (face down). Just my opinion.

Debbie, thank you for your input. It is much appreciated.

debbie0604
12-25-2008, 02:05 PM
Debbie, thank you for your input. It is much appreciated.
Thank you... I appreciate your welcome.

KeyboardPlayer
12-25-2008, 02:14 PM
Hi Debbie and welcome! Thanks so much for sharing your input. Are you familiar with toxicology reports as well? One question I've always had is why Taylor's sample has a hold time of 30 days but Skyla's has a hold time of 5 years. Again, thanks!

Cheers,
KP

little726
12-25-2008, 02:30 PM
Hi Debbie and welcome! Thanks so much for sharing your input. Are you familiar with toxicology reports as well? One question I've always had is why Taylor's sample has a hold time of 30 days but Skyla's has a hold time of 5 years. Again, thanks!

Cheers,
KP

KP, I have also questioned that.

Debbie, do you have any ideas?

Boots-OK
12-25-2008, 03:51 PM
I work in Pathology, and am familiar with autopsy reports. The bullets entered their bodies in a forward motion, or in some of the wounds "a slightly forward" motion, and exited (left their bodies) in the same way. This is the "Direction" of the path of the bullet. It seems to me that the girls were facing the shooter(s). Also, the ME indicates in the autopsy report that both girls were found by the grandfather lying "supine" (lying on the back). It wound seem to me that if the girls were running away from the shooter(s) that they would have been found "prostrate" or (face down). Just my opinion.

Thank you so much for your informative post. I, too, welcome you and encourage you to continue posting. Just wait until after the holidays - you will be inundated with questions due to your insight.

It appears to me that Skyla had just turned to run when she was, perhaps, hit in the arm. Provided that is the case, would that shot have spun her around facing the shooter? Also, I'd like to know what your take is on the abrasions found on their bodies?

Again, welcome and I look forward to reading any additional thoughts you may have.

debbie0604
12-26-2008, 10:13 AM
Hi Debbie and welcome! Thanks so much for sharing your input. Are you familiar with toxicology reports as well? One question I've always had is why Taylor's sample has a hold time of 30 days but Skyla's has a hold time of 5 years. Again, thanks!

Cheers,
KP
Hi KP!! Thank you for the welcome! Laboratories (include State Forensic Laboratories)keep records on file for 5 years and their records will include their toxicology reports. I'm not sure why Taylor's report states a hold time of 30 days. I'm thinking that may be a typo. (Working in Pathology myself - this happens and it goes unnoticed by staff).

Lauren - CA
12-26-2008, 10:45 AM
Welcome Debbie! Thank you so much for posting! I agree with Boots. Once the holidays are over with you will be inundated with tons of questions. We do appreciate any information you can give us.

debbie0604
12-26-2008, 11:00 AM
Thank you so much for your informative post. I, too, welcome you and encourage you to continue posting. Just wait until after the holidays - you will be inundated with questions due to your insight.

It appears to me that Skyla had just turned to run when she was, perhaps, hit in the arm. Provided that is the case, would that shot have spun her around facing the shooter? Also, I'd like to know what your take is on the abrasions found on their bodies?

Again, welcome and I look forward to reading any additional thoughts you may have.
Hi Boots, thank you so much for your welcome!! That's a good thought. I was wondering from reading that report if possibly the shooters had shot her in the abdomen first (#VII Epigastrium), then hitting her in the chest and the shots to her arms were just random viscious shots. The shooter(s) are viscious killers. Also #VIII was a gunshot in which the shooter came within close enough range to leave gunpowder. I'm wondering if the girls were not facing the shooter.

The coroner did not make much note of the abrasions. There was a linear scab of a "Z" on the back of the left hip and a "scar" on the inner aspect of the left arm. I noticed that there were some paint markings on their bodies that they had made on each other like typical little girls will do when bored. The "Z" scar could be from what kids will do when they are bored as well. Could the other abrasions be from where they fell in the brush?

Boots-OK
12-26-2008, 01:27 PM
Hi Boots, thank you so much for your welcome!! That's a good thought. I was wondering from reading that report if possibly the shooters had shot her in the abdomen first (#VII Epigastrium), then hitting her in the chest and the shots to her arms were just random viscious shots. The shooter(s) are viscious killers. Also #VIII was a gunshot in which the shooter came within close enough range to leave gunpowder. I'm wondering if the girls were not facing the shooter.

Because of the position/location of each body - it appears, to me, that Taylor was close to the road and was facing the killer(s) and Skyla who was about 5 feet away and, apparently, headed back into the woods, was attempting to escape.

The coroner did not make much note of the abrasions. There was a linear scab of a "Z" on the back of the left hip and a "scar" on the inner aspect of the left arm. I noticed that there were some paint markings on their bodies that they had made on each other like typical little girls will do when bored. The "Z" scar could be from what kids will do when they are bored as well.

The "Z" scabs/scars/markings, IMO, were made by the girls on themselves and on each other and represent their devotion to "Zanessa" or "Zac" from High School Musical.

Could the other abrasions be from where they fell in the brush?They probably are. I was just wanting to know if you had additional info to add to the "scanty" comments in the autopsy.

Thanks, Debbie0604...My responses to bolded comments are in red.

KeyboardPlayer
12-26-2008, 02:06 PM
Hi KP!! Thank you for the welcome! Laboratories (include State Forensic Laboratories)keep records on file for 5 years and their records will include their toxicology reports. I'm not sure why Taylor's report states a hold time of 30 days. I'm thinking that may be a typo. (Working in Pathology myself - this happens and it goes unnoticed by staff).
Thanks debbie... So 5 years is the norm? Interesting. It wouldn't be the first typo on the autopsy reports. :p

Lauren - CA
12-26-2008, 02:37 PM
Thanks debbie... So 5 years is the norm? Interesting. It wouldn't be the first typo on the autopsy reports. :p

Yes KP you are correct. Taylor's autopsy reports her birthdate incorrectly as well.

KeyboardPlayer
12-26-2008, 02:59 PM
Yes KP you are correct. Taylor's autopsy reports her birthdate incorrectly as well.
Yep, I remember that Lauren (hee hee), I wasn't aware of that until you pointed it out to me. Good catch! :)

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 09:45 PM
Looking at Skyla's autopsy report I notice all the wounds seem to be coming predominantly from the front. These entrance wounds can then be devided to those going either slightly up, or those going slightly down. Those going slightly down could have been fired from the back of a pick-up truck... And would then be the first ones to hit her. Those going slightly up in direction, it would seem to me, could have been fired when she was on the ground, supine, with the shooter standing at some unspecified distance from her feet.

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 09:55 PM
Taylor seems to have been shot in the head 3 times. It could be a .22 firing hollow points, or perhaps a smaller center fire caliber like a .25 or .380. I draw this conclusion by the combination of lack of penetration, and from the bullets having a copper jacket. I would lean toward the smaller .25/.380 because of the lack of penetration. .22 though quite small in caliber, do have quite a bit of penetration, especially the hollow point variety.

It seems to me at first glance that both girls were shot nearly at the same time... The gunner shooting the smaller caliber weapon seems to have shot Taylor in the face 3 times. I would suggest these are the opening shots on her. Then with 2 more shots fired with her on the ground also producing the upward trajectory.

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 10:08 PM
Hi USARDOG,
Is there any chance these wounds could have come from a shotgun?
Thanks for your opinions above.

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:10 PM
It is quite difficult for me to fathom people being this cruel and heartless. These people need to be found and dealt with. The totally senseless and vicious nature of this crime is quite shocking.

KeyboardPlayer
12-26-2008, 10:11 PM
It is quite difficult for me to fathom people being this cruel and heartless. These people need to be found and dealt with. The totally senseless and vicious nature of this crime is quite shocking.
I echo that sentiment wholeheartedly. :(

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:15 PM
Quite honestly Ruf, IMO, no. These wounds would seem most likely from hand guns. A shotgun would either produce many wounds, in a charistic pattern, and none would have copper jackets. Or if firing slugs, would have been massively destructive at these ranges, leaving huge exit wounds, blowing out large portions of tissue.

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:19 PM
IMO the PD should be looking for 2 hand guns. One 40 cal, and I am not sure why they are zeroing in on Glock... Unless there are charistic extractor marks on cases... There are many brands of handguns that shoot 40. The other gun I would suggest is another handgun, likely a .25 or .380. I think this crime was most probably done by 2 shooters, firing at nearly the same time.

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:22 PM
My idea for working this case would be to put a camara in the woods here, and record every car coming and going, then do follow ups. I believe these killers will return to the scene of this crime.

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 10:25 PM
I know almost nothing about guns. I did not think the girls were shot w/ a shot gun. But, it was a rumor that was discussed yesterday, that a reporter on CNN had asked the question of Jessica Brown and that she did not deny or confirm it. So, you think 2 shooters. I go back and forth on my theory of the # of shooters........... Have you thought of a motive? Any ideas?

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:31 PM
I don't believe 1 shooter could have done this, and IMO not a shotgun. Just viscous punks with handguns. IMO these girls were shot nearly at the same time, because no shots were fired into their backs. They were facing their killers, and surprised by them suddenly opening fire.

I don't believe there was a motive here. No drug thing, no revenge killing... I believe this was a thrill killing. A spur of the moment, "I dare you," killing. I believe these killers will return to the scene of this crime, because I believe they are from this area, and have gotten a great kick out of this killing... So it is quite natural they will return to "enjoy their work."

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:33 PM
Someone will talk... One thing about punks, they can't keep their mouths shut.

concernedperson
12-26-2008, 10:39 PM
I have always thought this a thrill kill.The perps may have known the victims but the motive was because they can. JMO. I know the family was on the edge with perspective perps but this seems so random. If it were drug deals gone sour or any of the other type motives they would have plucked the offenders. This is easy to check if money was involved as far as bank transfers among potentials.Of course, there is always under the mattress money transfers but LE has to be watching everything they do.

If someone is spending money that isn't earned than that is a red flag.

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 10:42 PM
Someone will talk... One thing about punks, they can't keep their mouths shut.

I agree with that! I just wish they would talk soon!! I am going to post on the rumor thread. There was something just posted on another site.

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 10:43 PM
I don't believe 1 shooter could have done this, and IMO not a shotgun. Just viscous punks with handguns. IMO these girls were shot nearly at the same time, because no shots were fired into their backs. They were facing their killers, and surprised by them suddenly opening fire.

I don't believe there was a motive here. No drug thing, no revenge killing... I believe this was a thrill killing. A spur of the moment, "I dare you," killing. I believe these killers will return to the scene of this crime, because I believe they are from this area, and have gotten a great kick out of this killing... So it is quite natural they will return to "enjoy their work."

That is why I think the girls knoew the killers. They had no idea what was going to happen........imo

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 10:44 PM
One last question to ConPers and USAR~
Any thoughts on who the POI / white truck might have been?

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:46 PM
Bullet #2 in Taylors autopsy... The first shot into her? The first shot of all? It is the only one showing any powder residue, and struck her in the chin. I believe she was standing pretty close to the shooter. Could be, he was in the truck, gun hidden under the window, behind the door. He suddenly comes up with it and shoots her square in the face, at a fairly close range.

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm not sure the person sighted had any connection here. I am suspecting at least 3 "teens..." 20 somethings... The person sighted was solo... I also think it highly possible the girls knew the shooters, or at the least... knew of them...

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 10:59 PM
Bullet #2 in Taylors autopsy... The first shot into her? The first shot of all? It is the only one showing any powder residue, and struck her in the chin. I believe she was standing pretty close to the shooter. Could be, he was in the truck, gun hidden under the window, behind the door. He suddenly comes up with it and shoots her square in the face, at a fairly close range.

Any thoughts on the groin shot that Taylor suffered?

Ruflossn
12-26-2008, 11:02 PM
Bullet #2 in Taylors autopsy... The first shot into her? The first shot of all? It is the only one showing any powder residue, and struck her in the chin. I believe she was standing pretty close to the shooter. Could be, he was in the truck, gun hidden under the window, behind the door. He suddenly comes up with it and shoots her square in the face, at a fairly close range.

For the longest time, I believed the girls had been shot because someone (probably a young person/teen) lost their temper when one or both of the girls "smarted off" to them. For example ~ teens in a truck, tried to get the girls to get in a truck and the girls smarted off, the teens got mad and shot them. The shooters could have been on drugs etc........ jmo

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 11:18 PM
Ruf, the groin shot... IMO, A young male did this shot, IMO while she was on the ground, because if the upward movement of the bullet. It ends up going through part of her lung if memory serves.

My best guess, this male would like to have made this a sexual contact, but it ended in killing, I don't believe he was aiming at her thigh, but was shooting a short barreled hand gun and in the heat of the moment, that was the best he could do.

Please notice, this is not the same shooter who shot her in the face. This is the person who was shooting the larger hand gun. IMO, this shooter came over to her after she was down, and fired this shot.

concernedperson
12-26-2008, 11:33 PM
That is why I think it random, thrill kill. He was shooting to be shooting.Damn him!

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 11:38 PM
Complete agreement here, on both counts.

USARDOG
12-26-2008, 11:44 PM
It seems to me, both girls were shot with both weapons. IMO, these shooters shot their victim, then walked to the other girl, and each took a turn shooting the other shooters victim after they were down.

concernedperson
12-26-2008, 11:56 PM
I think LE should be looking for young hotheads. Not a lot of self control and basically, red neck. I also think that the small community would protect them as one of their own thinking they would grow up, find God, seek change or otherwise be anonymous. I think LE should work harder as this is a solvable crime and justice needs to be served for these girls who didn't have a chance.

USARDOG
12-27-2008, 12:01 AM
I so agree... IMO these are bad seeds that need to be pulled out of the gene pool.

I think these guys were "playing army," because of the way they engaged each others targets.

Ruflossn
12-27-2008, 12:53 PM
Ruf, the groin shot... IMO, A young male did this shot, IMO while she was on the ground, because if the upward movement of the bullet. It ends up going through part of her lung if memory serves.

My best guess, this male would like to have made this a sexual contact, but it ended in killing, I don't believe he was aiming at her thigh, but was shooting a short barreled hand gun and in the heat of the moment, that was the best he could do.

Please notice, this is not the same shooter who shot her in the face. This is the person who was shooting the larger hand gun. IMO, this shooter came over to her after she was down, and fired this shot.

USARDOG~
I have a friend that is involved w/ LE. He stated basically the same thing you did about the groin shot and that it is 2 males that did the killings etc...... This case is haunting. I believe LE has a good idea about who committed these killings. I think one of them may already be in custody and serving time for an unrelated crime. I think LE is hoping while incarcerated, he will talk. If LE had the weapons, this case would be much closer to being solved. imo........

Albert18
12-27-2008, 05:37 PM
When I saw the groin shot in Taylor's autopsy report I became 99.9% convinced a young immature male was involved. I also think he knew Taylor and she knew him. So along that line I think this was probably an escalation of a previous conflict.

But if you think about this it doesn't make sense.

Let's say the person who made the groin shot was a young male who knew Taylor. This means he is a local. The other guy is someone he runs around with and so is probably close in age. He is probably a local also unless he was visiting this kid, which I doubt. There could be a third person.

Local people should be able to give LE a short list of young men who they think are capable of something like this.

If this was an escalation of a previous conflict I find it hard to believe other people, especially kids in the area, don't know about the previous conflict.

These guys were probably tooling around in their vehicle that Sunday which means somebody should have seen them driving around. This in my opinion is the biggest red flag in this case. I do not think these guys got in the vehicle with the intent of killing these girls. I think they were driving around, doing whatever, they happened upon the girls, something happened and the girls were killed. So how in the H does somebody not give LE a name of a kid driving around that Sunday. LE should have been on this within hours.

So if this crime happened this way, how was it not solved within hours?

If this crime was done by young locals then there is no way it should be unsolved. Something is wrong. It either didn't happen that way or the investigation was compromised.

USARDOG
12-27-2008, 06:23 PM
I don't know what happened, these are just my speculations... However, young males drive around all the time, they seldom want to be home, home is no fun, and they want to be out with their friends, hanging out, having fun, meeting girls... so how would that Sunday be different?

Very, very few people think someone they know is capable of something like this. So I cannot see someone calling in to authorities and saying... I think my, son, nephew, friend could be capable of killing young girls...

Albert18
12-27-2008, 08:50 PM
... so how would that Sunday be different?


Because the girls died that Sunday and the people who did it couldn't have been home at the time. They were also probably driving around a fair bit that afternoon. All LE needed was a name of somebody who was young, male, and seen driving around that Sunday afternoon.

LE has always made a point of saying they want to talk to the POI but they don't think he was involved. So why doesn't LE have a 2nd vehicle they are wondering about? If the POI wasn't involved then the killers were in a different vehicle or were on an ATV or were walking. Why hasn't LE asked for specific information about the killers? LE should know if the killers were on an ATV, on foot, or in a vehicle.

Lauren - CA
12-28-2008, 01:39 AM
Because the girls died that Sunday and the people who did it couldn't have been home at the time. They were also probably driving around a fair bit that afternoon. All LE needed was a name of somebody who was young, male, and seen driving around that Sunday afternoon.

LE has always made a point of saying they want to talk to the POI but they don't think he was involved. So why doesn't LE have a 2nd vehicle they are wondering about? If the POI wasn't involved then the killers were in a different vehicle or were on an ATV or were walking. Why hasn't LE asked for specific information about the killers? LE should know if the killers were on an ATV, on foot, or in a vehicle.

A parent should know that information. But a parent may also choose not to turn their child in for double homicide. I firmly believe the 911 tape of Vicky Placker was released to stir some type of sympathy or emotion in a mother. I say this because any mother that heard that tape, including myself, would never want to be the one placing that call. It was an "imagine if this were you" scenario thrown out there by the OSBI. Well I believe there is a mother out there who strongly suspects her child of these murders but won't dare say a word. I say put yourself in her place. What would you do?

Lauren - CA
12-28-2008, 01:44 AM
When I saw the groin shot in Taylor's autopsy report I became 99.9% convinced a young immature male was involved. I also think he knew Taylor and she knew him. So along that line I think this was probably an escalation of a previous conflict.

But if you think about this it doesn't make sense.

Let's say the person who made the groin shot was a young male who knew Taylor. This means he is a local. The other guy is someone he runs around with and so is probably close in age. He is probably a local also unless he was visiting this kid, which I doubt. There could be a third person.

Local people should be able to give LE a short list of young men who they think are capable of something like this.

If this was an escalation of a previous conflict I find it hard to believe other people, especially kids in the area, don't know about the previous conflict.

These guys were probably tooling around in their vehicle that Sunday which means somebody should have seen them driving around. This in my opinion is the biggest red flag in this case. I do not think these guys got in the vehicle with the intent of killing these girls. I think they were driving around, doing whatever, they happened upon the girls, something happened and the girls were killed. So how in the H does somebody not give LE a name of a kid driving around that Sunday. LE should have been on this within hours.

So if this crime happened this way, how was it not solved within hours?
If this crime was done by young locals then there is no way it should be unsolved. Something is wrong. It either didn't happen that way or the investigation was compromised.

Albert, always go back to what the Sheriff said in one of his first statements. We have (I believe he did state)three suspects. All of a sudden, nothing. You never saw the Sheriff speak again. Why is that? Could he have compromised the investigation by leaking that out too quickly? It's been hush hush since then. Do they have enough evidence to convict? I don't think so, otherwise I think this would have been solved by now. I feel they may have an idea but can't prove it 100% Unfortunately any less than that won't do.

k4kathy
12-28-2008, 11:00 AM
A parent should know that information. But a parent may also choose not to turn their child in for double homicide. I firmly believe the 911 tape of Vicky Placker was released to stir some type of sympathy or emotion in a mother. I say this because any mother that heard that tape, including myself, would never want to be the one placing that call. It was an "imagine if this were you" scenario thrown out there by the OSBI. Well I believe there is a mother out there who strongly suspects her child of these murders but won't dare say a word. I say put yourself in her place. What would you do?
Not only is there a mother or father out there that suspects or even knows their kid was involved in this,I'm sure gramps and aunt so-and-so know as well.They need to do the right thing,and come forward.
These are the very people that come here and read our forum to keep up with the progress in this case and to feel safe when they read inaccurate opinions posted.I think at least one of the killers has a "friend" who reads our posts for him,and the other one's mama or sister reads our posts as well.

little726
12-28-2008, 11:39 AM
Not only is there a mother or father out there that suspects or even knows their kid was involved in this,I'm sure gramps and aunt so-and-so know as well.They need to do the right thing,and come forward.
These are the very people that come here and read our forum to keep up with the progress in this case and to feel safe when they read inaccurate opinions posted.I think at least one of the killers has a "friend" who reads our posts for him,and the other one's mama or sister reads our posts as well.

k4kathy, do you know who these people are? Are they trouble makers?

k4kathy
12-28-2008, 12:12 PM
k4kathy, do you know who these people are? Are they trouble makers?I don't know them.But I bet money that my speculations are correct.

USARDOG
12-28-2008, 02:49 PM
4K, so if I follow what you are saying, we should not post about this case because if we are correct and they read it, they might bolt. And if we are wong, they will feel safe.

Albert18
12-28-2008, 05:06 PM
Albert, always go back to what the Sheriff said in one of his first statements. We have (I believe he did state)three suspects. All of a sudden, nothing. You never saw the Sheriff speak again. Why is that? Could he have compromised the investigation by leaking that out too quickly? It's been hush hush since then. Do they have enough evidence to convict? I don't think so, otherwise I think this would have been solved by now. I feel they may have an idea but can't prove it 100% Unfortunately any less than that won't do.

Or, could one of the boys be from a family that has connections.

Not only was the Sheriff locked away but then the POI is trotted out to the public in an odd fashion. The POI story comes directly from LE and it is full of holes and doesn't make sense.

Why is their focus on the POI and not the killers?

debbie0604
12-28-2008, 08:20 PM
Welcome Debbie! Thank you so much for posting! I agree with Boots. Once the holidays are over with you will be inundated with tons of questions. We do appreciate any information you can give us.
Thanks Lauren!! I appreciate the welcome!!

debbie0604
12-28-2008, 08:30 PM
Thanks, Debbie0604...My responses to bolded comments are in red.
Thank you for your response. I have followed this case through the NG show and news online. I have tried to find more indepth coverage and until I came here, could not find much coverage. Where did you find the information regarding location of the bodies? I read the autopsy report but do not remember any significant clinical summary indicating location or position of the bodies unless I missed it. I could have missed it though... the nature of the killing was overwhelmingly brutal to me, I was praying for the family the entire time I read the autopsy on those poor girls. The 911 call was devasting to hear. I truly hope LE can catch the viscious monster(s) that did this to these girls.

I'm not familiar with the background of the girls interests and likes and dislikes, just from reading here in what you guys have written. Placing the "Z" scab/carvings because of her like of a boy on the High School Musical definitely makes more sense to me. Typical pre-teenage girl to me.

debbie0604
12-28-2008, 08:38 PM
Thanks debbie... So 5 years is the norm? Interesting. It wouldn't be the first typo on the autopsy reports. :p
5 years is usually the normal time that Laboratories keep medical reports. Typos are usually caught before the report goes out and if not, an amended report will be created to correct any mistakes that have been made. This usually doesn't happen very often because there are check systems in place :-)

debbie0604
12-28-2008, 08:45 PM
IMO the PD should be looking for 2 hand guns. One 40 cal, and I am not sure why they are zeroing in on Glock... Unless there are charistic extractor marks on cases... There are many brands of handguns that shoot 40. The other gun I would suggest is another handgun, likely a .25 or .380. I think this crime was most probably done by 2 shooters, firing at nearly the same time.
I know nothing about guns, and absolutely HATE guns. Dear God, these poor girls appeared to have been (as NG stated) "used as target practice." I was thinking while reading the autopsy reports, that possibly a Glock was used - only from what I have read about Glocks - they are high powered, high caliber hand guns, and very deadly. And it appeared that more than one shooter was involved.

Dear Lord have mercy on their families.... such a horrible crime.....

GetSmart
12-28-2008, 08:54 PM
It seems to me, both girls were shot with both weapons. IMO, these shooters shot their victim, then walked to the other girl, and each took a turn shooting the other shooters victim after they were down.


I can see this as the case.
At the very beginning I thought this was a vengance thing that followed The P's from OKC.. but the more I read & learn I have to see this as you posted USARDOG.. it is logical.

Boots-OK
12-28-2008, 08:56 PM
Thank you for your response. I have followed this case through the NG show and news online. I have tried to find more indepth coverage and until I came here, could not find much coverage. Where did you find the information regarding location of the bodies? I read the autopsy report but do not remember any significant clinical summary indicating location or position of the bodies unless I missed it. I could have missed it though... the nature of the killing was overwhelmingly brutal to me, I was praying for the family the entire time I read the autopsy on those poor girls. The 911 call was devasting to hear. I truly hope LE can catch the viscious monster(s) that did this to these girls.

I'm not familiar with the background of the girls interests and likes and dislikes, just from reading here in what you guys have written. Placing the "Z" scab/carvings because of her like of a boy on the High School Musical definitely makes more sense to me. Typical pre-teenage girl to me.

Good to have you back posting, Debbie0604.

We were shown the girls' positions when we visited the memorial. Additionally, I have read or seen a report somewhere (I'll look for a link).

Vicki P confirmed to us the "Zac" from HSM connection. Their clubhouse definitiely indicated their love for HSM as well.

GetSmart
12-28-2008, 09:02 PM
My idea for working this case would be to put a camara in the woods here, and record every car coming and going, then do follow ups. I believe these killers will return to the scene of this crime.
I said the same thing from the get go.!!! Remember when the memorial was vandalized... This could have been been done 6 months ago..

Ruflossn
12-28-2008, 09:05 PM
Thank you for your response. I have followed this case through the NG show and news online. I have tried to find more indepth coverage and until I came here, could not find much coverage. Where did you find the information regarding location of the bodies? I read the autopsy report but do not remember any significant clinical summary indicating location or position of the bodies unless I missed it. I could have missed it though... the nature of the killing was overwhelmingly brutal to me, I was praying for the family the entire time I read the autopsy on those poor girls. The 911 call was devasting to hear. I truly hope LE can catch the viscious monster(s) that did this to these girls.

I'm not familiar with the background of the girls interests and likes and dislikes, just from reading here in what you guys have written. Placing the "Z" scab/carvings because of her like of a boy on the High School Musical definitely makes more sense to me. Typical pre-teenage girl to me.

Hi Debbie~
One of the autopsies says the victime was laying in a supine position etc..... I believe it was Skylas. The autopsy also says something about her being a certain direct etc.... from Taylor. That is where I originally read about the body of Skyla and where it was located. Taylors location was not mentioned in the autopsy report. Like Boots said, the location of her body was told to us by locals.

Welcome to WS!!!!

GetSmart
12-28-2008, 09:11 PM
Or, could one of the boys be from a family that has connections.

Not only was the Sheriff locked away but then the POI is trotted out to the public in an odd fashion. The POI story comes directly from LE and it is full of holes and doesn't make sense.

Why is their focus on the POI and not the killers?


What does this mean? Did I miss something?

Boots-OK
12-28-2008, 09:12 PM
I said the same thing from the get go.!!! Remember when the memorial was vandalized... This could have been been done 6 months ago..

I believe Peter P indicated to some of our group that cameras were installed (maybe even twice) and they were stolen and not replaced.

KeyboardPlayer
12-28-2008, 09:14 PM
I believe Peter P indicated to some of our group that cameras were installed (maybe even twice) and they were stolen and not replaced.
I remember hearing that too, Boots, but I must have missed the part where he said they were stolen. I wonder if these cameras had a wireless link to some sort of hard disk recorder, or if the camera and recorder were in the same box at the site?

Claycat
12-28-2008, 09:15 PM
My idea for working this case would be to put a camara in the woods here, and record every car coming and going, then do follow ups. I believe these killers will return to the scene of this crime.

I said the same thing from the get go.!!! Remember when the memorial was vandalized... This could have been been done 6 months ago..

I believe Peter P indicated to some of our group that cameras were installed (maybe even twice) and they were stolen and not replaced.

I guess the suspects were watching for the cameras to show up, too, or they figured if they could sell stolen copper, they could sell stolen cameras as well!

Boots-OK
12-28-2008, 09:18 PM
http://two.crimeshadows.com/whitakerautopsy.pdf

This is a link to Skyla's autopsy - go to "comments" on page three for a description of where she was located based on info provided by LE, I assume.

Boots-OK
12-28-2008, 09:21 PM
I remember hearing that too, Boots, but I must have missed the part where he said they were stolen. I wonder if these cameras had a wireless link to some sort of hard disk recorder, or if the camera and recorder were in the same box at the site?

KBP, I'm working strictly from memory here (that's not a good thing - lol). Do you recall what happened to them? They weren't there when we visited.

KeyboardPlayer
12-28-2008, 09:25 PM
KBP, I'm working strictly from memory here (that's not a good thing - lol). Do you recall what happened to them? They weren't there when we visited.
Boots, I was not discounting your theory by any means. :) You're right, they weren't there when we visited. I never heard what happened to them, but to me, the theory that they were stolen would be the most likely scenario IMO. If so, and the cameras had a remote wireless link, they should have easily captured those responsible for stealing them and questioned them. That tells me one of two things: they were self-contained units and the data was stolen along with the cameras, or those stealing them were somehow able to escape recognition.

GetSmart
12-28-2008, 09:37 PM
Wow this is news to me.. about the cameras..

Lauren - CA
12-28-2008, 11:35 PM
I was with you both. I don't remember hearing anything about the cameras. :(

Ann Fan
12-29-2008, 12:32 AM
I remember PP telling us about the cameras that LE had put in the tree - I don't remember him telling about them being stolen - I guess I always assumed LE had retrieved them.

debbie0604
12-29-2008, 12:24 PM
Good to have you back posting, Debbie0604.

We were shown the girls' positions when we visited the memorial. Additionally, I have read or seen a report somewhere (I'll look for a link).

Vicki P confirmed to us the "Zac" from HSM connection. Their clubhouse definitiely indicated their love for HSM as well.
Thanks Boots!! I have been busy working and only get to come in about twice a day to read and post. Bless their hearts.... they loved HSM... thanks for looking for the link!

debbie0604
12-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Hi Debbie~
One of the autopsies says the victime was laying in a supine position etc..... I believe it was Skylas. The autopsy also says something about her being a certain direct etc.... from Taylor. That is where I originally read about the body of Skyla and where it was located. Taylors location was not mentioned in the autopsy report. Like Boots said, the location of her body was told to us by locals.

Welcome to WS!!!!
Thank you so much for the welcome!! I didn't read the location of the body in the autopsy. I will go back and look for that. Wow... I appreciate the information. I had been trying to keep up with information on these little girls and their poor families since this happened and I heard about it on NG. This was such an atrocious crime. I just read above that their memorial was vandalized. That is horrible. I appreciate your information and your welcome.

debbie0604
12-29-2008, 12:35 PM
http://two.crimeshadows.com/whitakerautopsy.pdf

This is a link to Skyla's autopsy - go to "comments" on page three for a description of where she was located based on info provided by LE, I assume.
Thank you for that quick link. I sure did notice that in the autopsy when I read that the first time, and I interpreted that to mean that the decedent (Skyla) was supine on the ground with "her head" laying southwest approximately 5 feet west of her friend. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that is the measurements of her head from the body of Taylor. Since I could not envision in my mind how the bodies were actually laying, and have not seen a diagram of how the bodies were laying, I couldn't think of how the girls could actually have reacted at the time of the shootings.... I just assumed that possibly one could have been walking slightly ahead of the other at the time of the shootings....I have not had much news information on these girls until I came to this site.

Claycat
12-29-2008, 01:21 PM
So, Skyla could have turned and tried to run up into the woods, and then fallen back. This is what we were thinking.

Thank you so much for your contribution to this forum, Debbie! :)

debbie0604
12-29-2008, 02:00 PM
So, Skyla could have turned and tried to run up into the woods, and then fallen back. This is what we were thinking.

Thank you so much for your contribution to this forum, Debbie! :)
Possible, or impact of the fatal bullets and being shot caused her to turn. I tend to believe that these girls may have been caught off guard.

debbie0604
12-29-2008, 02:00 PM
So, Skyla could have turned and tried to run up into the woods, and then fallen back. This is what we were thinking.

Thank you so much for your contribution to this forum, Debbie! :)
Thank you for your welcome Claycat :-)

Boots-OK
12-30-2008, 07:27 PM
Earlier there were comments about Taylor's fingernails being clipped so short during autopsy - the ME noted on the full body view diagram "too short to cut" and I always thought that meant that she was a nail biter.

After reviewing the autopsy again today, I noticed that Taylor had "Multiple cutaneous abrasions and contusions over the right upper cheek, left knee, left ankle, and back of the left arm." I had missed the "cheek" abrasion before.

I hadn't looked at the autopsies in a few months. A page of two of this reading will get your dander up really fast. How evil, how cruel, how animalistic - how sad.

debbie0604
12-30-2008, 09:11 PM
Earlier there were comments about Taylor's fingernails being clipped so short during autopsy - the ME noted on the full body view diagram "too short to cut" and I always thought that meant that she was a nail biter.

After reviewing the autopsy again today, I noticed that Taylor had "Multiple cutaneous abrasions and contusions over the right upper cheek, left knee, left ankle, and back of the left arm." I had missed the "cheek" abrasion before.

I hadn't looked at the autopsies in a few months. A page of two of this reading will get your dander up really fast. How evil, how cruel, how animalistic - how sad.
Cutaneous abrasions could have happened from the brushes... (just my thinking there)....the cheek abrasion possibly from when she fell after being shot... (again my thinking)... Dear Lord what these poor children went through... bless the families... My heart aches when I read those pages of the autopsy reports. I pray that the killer(s) are caught.

Boots-OK
12-30-2008, 10:17 PM
Cutaneous abrasions could have happened from the brushes... (just my thinking there)....the cheek abrasion possibly from when she fell after being shot... (again my thinking)... Dear Lord what these poor children went through... bless the families... My heart aches when I read those pages of the autopsy reports. I pray that the killer(s) are caught.

Debbie - Yes, you're probably correct - both girls had them on their feet and legs and Skyla had them on her lower back - the one on Taylor's upper right cheek just seemed a little strange. Seems that if she had fallen in the brush a larger part of her face and/or upper body would have been scraped - not just a small isolated area. I was wondering if she could have been smacked by a hand or poked with a stick, or something? I know....I'm just speculating and reaching - but, reading the autopsies brings back the original horror I felt when these murders first happened.

I know there are links in the beginning of this thread for the autopsies - but, here they are again for convenience:

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Taylor_Dawn_Paschal_autopsy.pdf

Lauren - CA
12-30-2008, 10:52 PM
Debbie - Yes, you're probably correct - both girls had them on their feet and legs and Skyla had them on her lower back - the one on Taylor's upper right cheek just seemed a little strange. Seems that if she had fallen in the brush a larger part of her face and/or upper body would have been scraped - not just a small isolated area. I was wondering if she could have been smacked by a hand or poked with a stick, or something? I know....I'm just speculating and reaching - but, reading the autopsies brings back the original horror I felt when these murders first happened.

I know there are links in the beginning of this thread for the autopsies - but, here they are again for convenience:

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Taylor_Dawn_Paschal_autopsy.pdf


Does anyone think she may have been struck with the gun prior to her being shot?

Boots-OK
12-31-2008, 12:03 AM
Does anyone think she may have been struck with the gun prior to her being shot?

I'll be interested in what other posters have to say about this, Lauren...I'm doubting it was a hard blow due to the description. But, I'm anxious to see if there are other ways to get this type of skin abrasion.

Houndacres
12-31-2008, 01:49 AM
The abrasions on the upper cheek caught my attention too. My first thought was that she had been struck wtih something; hand, gun, rock. I also thought that perhaps there was a struggle before the shootings. It does seem quite possible they could have been caused by falling. This is so sad. I just wish they would put the responsible party behind bars! I find myself checking the news every few hours to see if there's been a break in this case. I wish it would get the attention that others have.

KeyboardPlayer
12-31-2008, 02:07 AM
The abrasions on the upper cheek caught my attention too. My first thought was that she had been struck wtih something; hand, gun, rock. I also thought that perhaps there was a struggle before the shootings. It does seem quite possible they could have been caused by falling. This is so sad. I just wish they would put the responsible party behind bars! I find myself checking the news every few hours to see if there's been a break in this case. I wish it would get the attention that others have.

You and me both, houndacres... I wonder as well about the abrasions, but part of me is curious as to whether or not there would have been time for a struggle? I would think something like this would have happened very quickly, just do it and get the heck out of dodge. Plus, if there were a struggle, there would probably be shoe impressions (maybe there was, I'd have to go back and check). But, I don't know how these people think (or IF they think, for that matter)... I, like you, just want justice for these girls. Thanks for your continued insight. :)

Cheers,
KP

Houndacres
12-31-2008, 03:07 AM
I've not seen the area, but if the struggle took place in the grass/woods it might not show alot of evidence. I agree though, I don't think there was a big struggle. Didn't someone mention that Skyla might have turned and started to run? Perhaps Skyla turned to run if Taylor was struck. The killer/s couldn't let them get away, hence the killer/s pulled the guns and fired quickly. It's late and my mind is wandering! I was also thinking about their parents. If it were your child, wouldn't you be in the public eye every chance you had, looking into things yourself, doing everything you could to keep the investigation moving? I think I would be screaming from every roof top to make somebody listen!

Ruflossn
12-31-2008, 09:35 AM
I've not seen the area, but if the struggle took place in the grass/woods it might not show alot of evidence. I agree though, I don't think there was a big struggle. Didn't someone mention that Skyla might have turned and started to run? Perhaps Skyla turned to run if Taylor was struck. The killer/s couldn't let them get away, hence the killer/s pulled the guns and fired quickly. It's late and my mind is wandering! I was also thinking about their parents. If it were your child, wouldn't you be in the public eye every chance you had, looking into things yourself, doing everything you could to keep the investigation moving? I think I would be screaming from every roof top to make somebody listen!

This has been mentioned so many times!!! I totally agree w/ you.

The girls were killed on a rural road. If there was a struggle, they could not have made it to the woods easily. There was a barbed wire fence that kept them from gaining easy access to the wooded area. But, along the dirt road were the typical weeds, brush etc............ FTR~ I believe Taylor was shot first and then Skyla. When Skyla saw Taylor be shot, she turned to flee but, was also shot............:mad:

Boots-OK
12-31-2008, 10:29 AM
You and me both, houndacres... I wonder as well about the abrasions, but part of me is curious as to whether or not there would have been time for a struggle? I would think something like this would have happened very quickly, just do it and get the heck out of dodge. Plus, if there were a struggle, there would probably be shoe impressions (maybe there was, I'd have to go back and check). But, I don't know how these people think (or IF they think, for that matter)... I, like you, just want justice for these girls. Thanks for your continued insight. :)

Cheers,
KP

Hi, KBD - just commenting on the bolded part of your post...if the perps were known to the girls, maybe it didn't start off as a quick hit scenario...perhaps they stopped to say something to the girls, it turned nasty and then the murders happened after some type of confrontation. Even though the road was loose dirt and footprints could have been left...it would be difficult, I would think, to put much stock in footprints since PP was at the scene first and I, believe, another of the P's indicated the boot prints found there were probably hers.

XPA Magnet
12-31-2008, 12:54 PM
I've not seen the area, but if the struggle took place in the grass/woods it might not show alot of evidence. I agree though, I don't think there was a big struggle. Didn't someone mention that Skyla might have turned and started to run? Perhaps Skyla turned to run if Taylor was struck. The killer/s couldn't let them get away, hence the killer/s pulled the guns and fired quickly. It's late and my mind is wandering! I was also thinking about their parents. If it were your child, wouldn't you be in the public eye every chance you had, looking into things yourself, doing everything you could to keep the investigation moving? I think I would be screaming from every roof top to make somebody listen!

If it were your child...

There are earlier posts from people who have met some of the family members, and from people who have seen them. There are also a few videos of them around, and they have made a few statements to the press. Like many others, I thought their behavior was odd. I was sure it was easy to be very brave and very public with both grief and rage. I'm not so sure now.

In the beginning, their behavior was scrutinized by many. People wondered if some of them were directly involved, or if their lifestyles were partly responsible. Until they were eliminated as suspects, they were, well, suspects. Even after LE started looking in other directions, the families' whole life stories were splashed all over the internet. Every little speck of dirt that could be dug up about them (and anyone related/connected to them) was exposed. Might that have made them a little reluctant to behave like John W or Beth H or like we're sure we would?

Could it also be that LE privately reassured them that justice would be forthcoming, and they believed in LE? Maybe that neck of the woods is a place where you don't stir up trouble. Maybe scratching out a living is such a daily ordeal there that they can't afford to vary their routine. Maybe, deep down inside, they believe in turning the other cheek. Maybe they are so devastated that even getting out of bed in the morning, much less trying to pick up the pieces of their lives and maintaining a front for other family members, is harder than any of us could imagine.

It's easy to cast stones, especially from one's own living room, under a cloak of anonymity, like I've been doing toward OSBI for a while. Not that anyone was casting stones at the families here; it is a logical question. I raised a daughter who's now 20. If this happened to her...I just don't know. No one knows. It's just too awful to consider. After some thought, I just think I'd be crushed beyond belief. Ergo, it's easy to think the girls' families might be, too.

Another recent post suggested OSBI was once reading these comments and wondered if they still are. If so: Thank you for your past efforts. Now solve this case. Bring justice to the girls and their grieving families.

Claycat
12-31-2008, 01:15 PM
Thank you for your past efforts. Now solve this case. Bring justice to the girls and their grieving families.

Ditto on that one, XPA! My feelings exactly!

k4kathy
12-31-2008, 02:22 PM
4K, so if I follow what you are saying, we should not post about this case because if we are correct and they read it, they might bolt. And if we are wong, they will feel safe.Usardog,
Sorry if I gave the impression that we shouldn't be posting.I'm just incredibly disgusted everytime I think about the killer/s having another day of freedom.I was speculating that the perp's or someone close to them monitors this forum as a safe way for them to keep up with what others are saying about the case.Again,sorry for coming across the wrong way,but it just infuriates me to no end.

k4kathy
12-31-2008, 02:31 PM
The abrasions on the upper cheek caught my attention too. My first thought was that she had been struck wtih something; hand, gun, rock. I also thought that perhaps there was a struggle before the shootings. It does seem quite possible they could have been caused by falling. This is so sad. I just wish they would put the responsible party behind bars! I find myself checking the news every few hours to see if there's been a break in this case. I wish it would get the attention that others have.I still wonder if the abrasions were caused from being dragged.Something that stuck in my mind was according to autopsy diagrams,Skyla had abrasions on the top of her foot,while Taylor did not.I surmised that the girls could have possibly been dragged??And the reason Skyla had abrasions on her foot and Taylor didn't,I'm thinking because Taylor was wearing tennis shoes and Skyla was wearing house slippers,which could have easily fallen off.

k4kathy
12-31-2008, 02:38 PM
This has been mentioned so many times!!! I totally agree w/ you.

The girls were killed on a rural road. If there was a struggle, they could not have made it to the woods easily. There was a barbed wire fence that kept them from gaining easy access to the wooded area. But, along the dirt road were the typical weeds, brush etc............ FTR~ I believe Taylor was shot first and then Skyla. When Skyla saw Taylor be shot, she turned to flee but, was also shot............:mad:I think Skyla was shot first because she didn't appear to have time to react,where Taylor appears to have tried to shield herself from the gun fire with her hands since she had what I would call defense wounds.

Lauren - CA
12-31-2008, 03:05 PM
I also wondered if Skyla was shot first. I always believed Taylor had been until I started thinking about the abrasion on her face. Could Taylor have been struck with the end of one gun, Skyla turned to run, was shot?, Taylor would have instinctively put up her hand to touch her face, it would have stung like heck, and then once the decision was made to shoot Skyla the gun was then fired at Taylor? Plausible?

GetSmart
12-31-2008, 04:14 PM
If it were your child...
Could it also be that LE privately reassured them that justice would be forthcoming, and they believed in LE? Maybe that neck of the woods is a place where you don't stir up trouble. Maybe scratching out a living is such a daily ordeal there that they can't afford to vary their routine. Maybe, deep down inside, they believe in turning the other cheek. Maybe they are so devastated that even getting out of bed in the morning, much less trying to pick up the pieces of their lives and maintaining a front for other family members, is harder than any of us could imagine.

That could be so so true.. and does make sense. Sometimes when people do not have alot of self esteem it is hard to be out in front. Espically after all their laundry was aired..

USARDOG
12-31-2008, 06:38 PM
Seems to me, the PD could start by arresting the people who are stealing the cameras. It might be the perps, or they might know who the perps are. If they don't have wireless up links, if they can't protect their own cameras, what chance do they have in catching these killers!?

Perhaps they should have taken the help that was offered...

Houndacres
12-31-2008, 09:11 PM
XP, I was in no way meaning any disrespect to the families of Skyla and Taylor. I only wish them God's comfort during this difficult time. I certainly wasn't comparing their public actions to what I think mine would be, if I were in their situation. I was just thinking out loud at how frustrated I would be. I was not meaning to be critical of their actions.
It is a shame of what they have had to endure in the public eye. I do hope that LE has given them some reassurance and kept them informed.

Boots-OK
12-31-2008, 09:14 PM
Seems to me, the PD could start by arresting the people who are stealing the cameras. It might be the perps, or they might know who the perps are. If they don't have wireless up links, if they can't protect their own cameras, what chance do they have in catching these killers!?

Perhaps they should have taken the help that was offered...

Hi, USARDOG - Just for the record, let me say this about the security cameras "being stolen".

Since I'm the only one who recalls that part of PP's statement - I would prefer that we not accept my memory as fact on this. I'm pretty fact and detail based and don't like to build my theories around rumors. Accordingly, I do not wish to put statements here in the regular threads that aren't substantiated.

This, of course, is FWIW and MOO.

Boots-OK
12-31-2008, 09:18 PM
XP, I was in no way meaning any disrespect to the families of Skyla and Taylor. I only wish them God's comfort during this difficult time. I certainly wasn't comparing their public actions to what I think mine would be, if I were in their situation. I was just thinking out loud at how frustrated I would be. I was not meaning to be critical of their actions.
It is a shame of what they have had to endure in the public eye. I do hope that LE has given them some reassurance and kept them informed.

Hi, HA - I feel the families are very frustrated and I don't think they have been reassured or kept informed. IMO - as always!

XPA Magnet
01-01-2009, 07:38 AM
XP, I was in no way meaning any disrespect to the families of Skyla and Taylor. I only wish them God's comfort during this difficult time. I certainly wasn't comparing their public actions to what I think mine would be, if I were in their situation. I was just thinking out loud at how frustrated I would be. I was not meaning to be critical of their actions.
It is a shame of what they have had to endure in the public eye. I do hope that LE has given them some reassurance and kept them informed.

Of course you meant no disrespect. Your post was very thought-provoking. I used to feel the same way. We see the courage exhibited by a few very brave people who can absorb this kind of tragedy, and rise to exceptional levels in their quest for justice. We see it almost daily, and it seems like the proper way to react. Again, you really made me think. Some can stand and fight, but some just might not be able to.

It seems that everyone following this case here is as frustrated as we both are. Not with each other, but with the progress, or lack thereof. Despite the frustration, and taken as a whole, these posts here (and yours specifically) seem to express a lot of love for the girls and support for the families, and a desire for justice for both.

Lauren - CA
01-01-2009, 03:12 PM
I think we also need to remember the fear factor in all of this. These families are afraid for their own safety and for their other family members. Even if they know something, which I don't necessarily believe anymore, I feel they are questioning their safety at all times. There is a killer or killers out there that are getting away with the brutal murders of two innocent children. Innocent. They were children and children should not have to know what it feels like to know they are going to die....without their parents to comfort them in their final moment.

little726
01-01-2009, 04:55 PM
I think we also need to remember the fear factor in all of this. These families are afraid for their own safety and for their other family members. Even if they know something, which I don't necessarily believe anymore, I feel they are questioning their safety at all times. There is a killer or killers out there that are getting away with the brutal murders of two innocent children. Innocent. They were children and children should not have to know what it feels like to know they are going to die....without their parents to comfort them in their final moment.

Very well said, Lauren.

Thank you.

Ruflossn
01-01-2009, 06:27 PM
I think we also need to remember the fear factor in all of this. These families are afraid for their own safety and for their other family members. Even if they know something, which I don't necessarily believe anymore, I feel they are questioning their safety at all times. There is a killer or killers out there that are getting away with the brutal murders of two innocent children. Innocent. They were children and children should not have to know what it feels like to know they are going to die....without their parents to comfort them in their final moment.

The bolded, colored part of the paragraph, broke my heart. So sad........:(

Claycat
01-01-2009, 08:35 PM
Me, too, Flossie! It made me cry!

KeyboardPlayer
01-01-2009, 08:52 PM
That was a very touching statement. :( Excellent post, Lauren.

k4kathy
03-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Anybody notice that Skyla had a pretty serious head injury?I didn't until now.I guess I was too focused on the gun shot wounds before.

Ruflossn
03-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Anybody notice that Skyla had a pretty serious head injury?I didn't until now.I guess I was too focused on the gun shot wounds before.

I have never noticed this b4. I will go review my notes.

k4kathy
03-10-2009, 10:40 PM
The type of head trauma described in the autopsy makes me think this was an impact injury/striking the head on a hard surface,from falling???,also these types of head injuries are the same ones found with shaken baby syndrome/non-accidental head trauma.Just my opinion...

Mysterylover
03-14-2009, 01:40 PM
Anybody notice that Skyla had a pretty serious head injury?I didn't until now.

I guess I was too focused on the gun shot wounds before.

K4kathy,
Thanks for pointing the head injury out. I was not aware of Skyla's head injury...
This injury makes me wonder IF something happened to the girls earlier that Sunday,
causing Skyla's head injury and scratches to her foot..and the scratches on Taylor..leading up to them being shot...:bud:

k4kathy
03-14-2009, 03:12 PM
K4kathy,
Thanks for pointing the head injury out. I was not aware of Skyla's head injury...
This injury makes me wonder IF something happened to the girls earlier that Sunday,
causing Skyla's head injury and scratches to her foot..and the scratches on Taylor..leading up to them being shot...:bud:
Skyla might have struck her head when she fell,or someone might have struck her head against something.Whatever the case may be,her head had to of struck a hard surface....concrete bridge,pickup bed,packed road,etc.,something like that.I always thought Skyla was dragged at some point,due to the abrasions on the top of her foot(she was wearing slippers) and not present on Taylors feet(she was wearing tennis shoes).Plus the abrasions on Skylas lower back.Those abrasions didn't just appear,something happened to cause the abrasions.

Mysterylover
03-14-2009, 05:04 PM
Skyla might have struck her head when she fell,or someone might have struck her head against something.
Whatever the case may be,her head had to of struck a hard surface....concrete bridge,pickup bed,packed road,etc.,something like that.

I always thought Skyla was dragged at some point,due to the abrasions on the top of her foot(she was wearing slippers) and not present on Taylors feet(she was wearing tennis shoes).
Plus the abrasions on Skylas lower back.Those abrasions didn't just appear,something happened to cause the abrasions....

K4Kathy, I agree. Wonder if Le ever inspected T.'s tennis shoes for scrapes?

Could the little dog have been left where the abrasions and head injury happened...

Thinking outside the box, could Skyla have fallen off the back of a 4-wheeler that day.
Remember 4-wheelers was seen near/or at the P.'s on that Saturday.

When Skyla was found she was laying off the road more in the weeds..I do not believe she could have hit her head that hard falling in the sand...

or scratched the top of her feet when falling to the ground...
Does anyone know IF the girls was laying face up or face down when they were found?

Ruflossn
03-14-2009, 07:29 PM
K4Kathy, I agree. Wonder if Le ever inspected T.'s tennis shoes for scrapes?

Could the little dog have been left where the abrasions and head injury happened...

Thinking outside the box, could Skyla have fallen off the back of a 4-wheeler that day.
Remember 4-wheelers was seen near/or at the P.'s on that Saturday.

When Skyla was found she was laying off the road more in the weeds..I do not believe she could have hit her head that hard falling in the sand...

or scratched the top of her feet when falling to the ground...
Does anyone know IF the girls was laying face up or face down when they were found?


From what I understand, both girls were found face up. Iirc, Skyla's autopsy states she was found in a supine position. I am not sure that I have ever read that both girls were found face up, but that is the way it has always been explained to me.

Mysterylover
03-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Just a though:
I've read a person can not bruise after death.....and they don't bleed after the heart stops pumping....Correct me if I'm wrong...:hand:

k4kathy
03-15-2009, 11:38 AM
You are correct.

Ruflossn
03-15-2009, 02:56 PM
Anybody notice that Skyla had a pretty serious head injury?I didn't until now.I guess I was too focused on the gun shot wounds before.

k4kathy~
Could you please tell me what page on the autposy report you read about the head injury? I have just finished reading Skylas report (for the 100th time! :o) and can not figure out what exactly you are referring to. I see references to head trauma but, from my perspective, it references it all back to gunshot wounds. I am unfamiliar w/ reading autopsy results so, any help is much appreciated. Below is a part of the autposy that copied / pasted directly from the autopsy result of Skyla:

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf
Externally the brain is diffusely edematous symmetric, and multiple serial sections of cerebral hemispheres, pons, medulla, and cerebellum show diffuse edema. The ventricular system is also symmetric and unremarkable. The base of the skull is intact without osseous abnormality.

When I read this entry from the coroner, I always assumed the edema (swelling) was caused from the trauma inflicted by the gunshot. Specifically gunshot wound #8. Description from the autopsy result is as follows:

VIII. Entrance gunshot wound, right neck under the mandible: There is 0.4 cm entrance gunshot wound having gray-brown peripheral abrasion rim. There are scattered powder-like grayish particles attached to the skin surface mainly over the right lateral chest, right lower cheekjust behind the ear lobe measuring overall 15.5 x 13.5 cm. There is no evidence of powder stippling or soot blackening around the wound. The direction of the wound is slightly backward toward the left penetrating through the pharynx to the left mastoid region with focal fracture and small region hemorrhages. There is a damaged small copper stained lead bullet recovered.

X. Localized subarachnoid hemorrhages of left temporal lobe (6 x 4 cm), likely due to gunshot wound
#8.


I have always been suspicious of the abrasions and wondered exactly when they occurred and exactly what happened to cause them.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me in reference to the autopsy reports!

Flossie.

Ruflossn
03-15-2009, 03:04 PM
K4Kathy,
Does anyone know IF the girls was laying face up or face down when they were found?


ML,
This is what the autopsy result says about the position of Skyla's body:

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf

The decedent was located on the west side of the roadway. The decedent was supine on the ground approximately head southwest approximately 5 feet west of the her friend

Mysterylover
03-15-2009, 03:21 PM
Think about this:
If both girls were laying face up, seems the frontal shots
would have been fired after the girls were down on the ground.

how would these front shots occurred IF the killer was not almost over the girls bodies when the last shots were fired?..
Did LE see any shoe/boot/4-wheeler or truck prints on the road next to the girls bodies?

If LE tracked the girls, did they track any dog paw prints on the dirt road that day?.:detective:

sheza
03-15-2009, 03:28 PM
Didn't the OSBI say Taylor faced her killer or died where she stood something like that..
I will try and find the statement OSBI made about Taylor, if so Taylor would have died first.

Ruflossn
03-15-2009, 03:32 PM
Does anyone know IF the girls was laying face up or face down when they were found?

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Taylor_Dawn_Paschal_autopsy.pdf

The back is unremarkable other than exit gunshot wound of the back of the neck at the mid-line and partial exit gunshot wound with bullet that is partly exposed located over the left upper back. There are similar words and designs made by markers over the lower back.

There are blood stains mainly over the front part of the t-shirt and left groin region of the shorts. There is blood spattering over the front part of the tshirt and the front sleeve region. The back of the shirts are soaked with blood mainly on the upper part and right sleeve.

ML,
Because of the above entries by coroner, I have always assumed Taylor was found on her back. Reason being: 1) Gunshot wound #IV is said to have been a "partial exit gunshot wound". I wonder if Taylor was laying on the ground when this shot was fired and because she was laying on the ground, the ground "stopped" the bullet from exiting all the way. 2) The enrty that states the "back of the shirts are soaked w/ blood" led me to believe that the blood pooled in the direction of gravity. Indicating that because the back of the shirts were soaked w/ blood, Taylor had been laying on her back, thus the blood pooled towards gravity / the ground.

I hope this makes sense.
It is all just my opinion.

sheza
03-15-2009, 03:35 PM
OSBI had a picture of a boot print on their bulletin board "since removed"
but LKPlacker said she thought that was her boot print.

Ruflossn
03-15-2009, 03:38 PM
Didn't the OSBI say Taylor faced her killer or died where she stood something like that..
I will try and find the statement OSBI made about Taylor, if so Taylor would have died first.

Skyla has gunshot wound entrances in her back, thus implying that Sklya had time to react to the shooter. Imo, she was running away from danger. While running, she was shot in the back.

Taylor does not have gunshot wound entrances in her back, to me this indicates she was shot first. She did not have time to run. I do believe she "threw up" her right hand out of instinct. She threw her hand up because she realized that her life was in danger and she reacted w/o thought. Again, this is jmo.

k4kathy
03-16-2009, 06:14 PM
Ruflossin,
The trauma to the brain and meninges appears to be caused from more than a gun shot,my opinion only,of course.Sounds like an impact injury as well.
Maybe I missed something???Can you direct me to the page where the ME documented all of this head trauma as a result of a gun shot wound?

Mysterylover
03-16-2009, 06:52 PM
Skyla might have struck her head when she fell,or someone might have struck her head against something.

Whatever the case may be,her head had to of struck a hard surface....concrete bridge, pickup bed, packed road, etc.,something like that.

I always thought Skyla was dragged at some point,due to the abrasions on the top of her foot(she was wearing slippers) and not present on Taylors feet(she was wearing tennis shoes).

Plus the abrasions on Skylas lower back.Those abrasions didn't just appear,something happened to cause the abrasions...

k4kathy: With Skyla having abrasions to her lower back and a hard impact to the back of her head..... leads me to agree with you, that Skyla possibly fell backward off 'something' that day before the murders..:Bicicleta:

domesticmess
03-16-2009, 06:57 PM
Skyla might have struck her head when she fell,or someone might have struck her head against something.Whatever the case may be,her head had to of struck a hard surface....concrete bridge,pickup bed,packed road,etc.,something like that.I always thought Skyla was dragged at some point,due to the abrasions on the top of her foot(she was wearing slippers) and not present on Taylors feet(she was wearing tennis shoes).Plus the abrasions on Skylas lower back.Those abrasions didn't just appear,something happened to cause the abrasions.

Okay not sure if I am doing this right, but the abrasions on Skyla's foot could be from her running from her killer. To me, it makes sense that if she turned to run and was shot from behind she would fall and trip over something possibly causing the abrasion on her foot.

Mysterylover
03-16-2009, 07:02 PM
You and me both, houndacres... I wonder as well about the abrasions, but part of me is curious as to whether or not there would have been time for a struggle?
I would think something like this would have happened very quickly, just do it and get the heck out of dodge.
Plus, if there were a struggle, there would probably be shoe impressions (maybe there was, I'd have to go back and check).
But, I don't know how these people think (or IF they think, for that matter)... I, like you, just want justice for these girls. Thanks for your continued insight. :)

Cheers,
KP

Keyboard, What IF the struggle/abuse/ falling off something,/ being knocked down, had occurred earlier that day with someone, somewhere in the neighborhood, leading up to the murders?..:raincloud:

Ruflossn
03-16-2009, 09:11 PM
Ruflossin,
The trauma to the brain and meninges appears to be caused from more than a gun shot,my opinion only,of course.Sounds like an impact injury as well.
Maybe I missed something???Can you direct me to the page where the ME documented all of this head trauma as a result of a gun shot wound?

Hi k4kathy~
Below is the page of the autposy that led me to my conclusions.

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf

X. Localized subarachnoid hemorrhages of left temporal lobe (6 x 4 cm), likely due to gunshot wound#8

I wasn't sure of the exact definition of sub. hem. I looked it up and posted what I found.

http://www.ask.com/web?q=subarachnoid%20hemorrhages%20&l=dir&qsrc=167&o=10616

Subarachnoid hemorrhage is bleeding in the area between the brain and the thin tissues that cover the brain.

I also did not see reference to the skull being fractured. If there had been an impact injury wouldn't you expect to see the skull w/ fractures? Again, I have very limited knowledge of these types of things. I appreciate any help you can offer.

I look forward to hearing what you think.
Flossie

docwho3
03-17-2009, 07:31 AM
There is something about the place of the crime and the wounds as they have been discussed that strikes me. I can't quite put my finger on it but it is like working a cryptoquip puzzle in a newspaper where the pattern of the groups of letters works together to help you solve the puzzle.

Mysterylover
03-17-2009, 10:03 AM
Okay not sure if I am doing this right, but the abrasions on Skyla's foot could be from her running from her killer.
To me, it makes sense that if she turned to run and was shot from behind she would fall and trip over something possibly causing the abrasion on her foot....

domesticmess,
If Skyla was shot while starting to run, in her side and her back, I do not understand HOW she could have fallen and found facing-up?
It seems she would have been face down, back or side toward the shooter...:doh:

k4kathy
03-17-2009, 10:26 AM
Okay not sure if I am doing this right, but the abrasions on Skyla's foot could be from her running from her killer. To me, it makes sense that if she turned to run and was shot from behind she would fall and trip over something possibly causing the abrasion on her foot.Sure could be.To get an idea of how one could get abrasions on top the foot,take off your shoes and socks and see how awkward it is to make the top of your foot come into contact with anything while you are in an upright position.Now lay down on your belly and try.
Could it be someone was trying to force her into a vehicle or something and she was resisting/struggling to break free and they resorted to dragging her?
Or did someone drag her out of the back of a pickup bed or ??

k4kathy
03-17-2009, 10:54 AM
Hi k4kathy~
Below is the page of the autposy that led me to my conclusions.

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/Skyla_Whitaker_autopsy.pdf

X. Localized subarachnoid hemorrhages of left temporal lobe (6 x 4 cm), likely due to gunshot wound#8

I wasn't sure of the exact definition of sub. hem. I looked it up and posted what I found.

http://www.ask.com/web?q=subarachnoid%20hemorrhages%20&l=dir&qsrc=167&o=10616

Subarachnoid hemorrhage is bleeding in the area between the brain and the thin tissues that cover the brain.

I also did not see reference to the skull being fractured. If there had been an impact injury wouldn't you expect to see the skull w/ fractures? Again, I have very limited knowledge of these types of things. I appreciate any help you can offer.

I look forward to hearing what you think.
Flossie
The skull itself doesn't have to fracture/break/crack for a brain injury to exist.Think of shaken baby syndrome AKA shaken impact syndrome.The brain can hit the skull so forcefully,causing tears to brain tissue,vessels,etc.,which causes the brain to bleed and swell.
By the way,do you recall reading anything in the autopsy report about the spinal fluid?

Ruflossn
03-17-2009, 02:05 PM
The skull itself doesn't have to fracture/break/crack for a brain injury to exist.Think of shaken baby syndrome AKA shaken impact syndrome.The brain can hit the skull so forcefully,causing tears to brain tissue,vessels,etc.,which causes the brain to bleed and swell.
By the way,do you recall reading anything in the autopsy report about the spinal fluid?

I do not remember anything about SPF in the autopsy report. I will review it again and see if I find anything. That is a great point about shaken baby syndrome. What I can see in regards to the brain is that there was generalized edema. Is that what you are referring to as an indicator of head trauma other than from the gun shot wounds?

Ruflossn
03-17-2009, 03:22 PM
k4kathy~
I re-read the autopsy report. I did not see anything that mentioned SPF. Did I miss it?

I also did some quick internet reading about damage a 22 cal. bullet could do to the brain. Basically, the articles stated that generally, a 22 cal. bullet would enter the brain, "bounce" around and cause excessive damage. The 22 cal. bullets would not usually exit the skull. Which in Skyla's case, was what happened. The 22 cal., damaged, copper, jacketed bullet, was recovered w/ in the skull. I will read more on this subject and if I find anything interesting, I will post it.

sheza
03-17-2009, 05:41 PM
ArozonaGiGi at one time pointed out in the autopsies Taylor had a 30 day hold status and Skyla had a 5 yr hold status.
The Board of Medicolegal Investigations pg..hold status looks to be about specimen storage and a fee for extending the hold status... It appears Skyla may have had some future evidence ( hope DNA )

sheza
03-17-2009, 06:00 PM
Taylor's abrasion/contusion over the right upper cheek looks like an indentation of a ring (maybe a senior ring the oval stone ?) with knuckle marks right above it.
JMO.... heck thought I'd throw that at U'all

Mysterylover
03-17-2009, 07:10 PM
Taylor's abrasion/contusion over the right upper cheek looks like an indentation of a ring (maybe a senior ring the oval stone ?) with knuckle marks right above it.
JMO.... heck thought I'd throw that at U'all

Sheza, A very interesting clue.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn there was a confrontation with the girls sometime before they were shot..
Are there any pictures of this indentation mark on her cheek?? It certainly sounds like a high school/college/military ring mark..

sheza
03-17-2009, 07:12 PM
Ruflossin,
The trauma to the brain and meninges appears to be caused from more than a gun shot,my opinion only,of course.Sounds like an impact injury as well.
Maybe I missed something???Can you direct me to the page where the ME documented all of this head trauma as a result of a gun shot wound?

External Examination Skyla # 8 gunshot wound "region hemorrhages"

Ruflossn
03-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Taylor's abrasion/contusion over the right upper cheek looks like an indentation of a ring (maybe a senior ring the oval stone ?) with knuckle marks right above it.
JMO.... heck thought I'd throw that at U'all

hey Sheza,
What page of the autopsy was the drawing on? I looked and could not find it.
I will check again but, thought you might be able to help me out...........:doh:

RUF

sheza
03-17-2009, 10:02 PM
Skyla's # 6 "ATYPICAL EXIT" gunshot wound could be a very important clue to this crime.
If you google atypical exit wound or shored gunshot wound it's very interesting.

sheza
03-17-2009, 10:08 PM
RuFlossn I don't have a pg # it's the Head - surface and skeletal lateral view..
MysteryLover I'll try and get ya a page blown-up for ya...

k4kathy
03-17-2009, 10:35 PM
I do not remember anything about SPF in the autopsy report. I will review it again and see if I find anything. That is a great point about shaken baby syndrome. What I can see in regards to the brain is that there was generalized edema. Is that what you are referring to as an indicator of head trauma other than from the gun shot wounds?I just really feel like this is a strong possiblilty.My own opinion of course.
I didn't catch any mention of spinal fluid either.Odd.

k4kathy
03-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Sheza, A very interesting clue.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn there was a confrontation with the girls sometime before they were shot..
Are there any pictures of this indentation mark on her cheek?? It certainly sounds like a high school/college/military ring mark..
Execellent observation,Sheza!

YellowDog
03-18-2009, 11:40 AM
I've always wondered if the girls were terrorized by teen males before their death.....perhaps some that they ran into at the bridge who were target shooting and followed them and taunted them until it escalated into murder. I've never been convinced that the truck was in any way connected to the murder. If it was teens out target shooting who lived somewhere in the vicinity, they could have killed the girls and immediately headed for home either on foot or on four wheelers to establish an alibi.

sheza
03-22-2009, 03:28 PM
As I understand, OSBI took DNA from 100 people before the autopsies were completed.
Once the test was completed I have not heard of any DNA taken.
Makes me wonder if the DNA taken was just-n-case there was some left at the scene.
Or there was DNA but no matches yet. But why stop taking DNA samples.
I know they can't take 1000 DNA's.
This is a small county... talk gets around if someone was asked to give DNA.
It's went as far as locals talking about one member of every family offering a DNA sample! This is how bad we want this killer/killers found.

wfgodot
03-22-2009, 04:09 PM
Pardon me if this has been said before, as I suspect it has, more than once, but overkill like this almost always involves a personal angle, and that angle is multiplied if there is also a sexual component, at least from what I've read. As for DNA, I don't think the authorities have any from the scene---just a gut feeling that they were trying to force the perpetrator or perpetrators's hand by adding that component to the pressure LE was applying. Nothing about this case strikes me that it happened at random, though, true, with the effect of drink and drugs on an individual or individuals prone to being unbalanced, it certainly could have been.

sheza
04-19-2009, 06:56 PM
An interview with Okmulgee's sheriff Eddie Rice said the girls were lying face down ???

waltzingmatilda
01-17-2011, 09:25 AM
I am bumping this thread to generate further discussion about the autopsies. I re read the reports and this whole thread and learned some new things. I am hoping that going back to the beginning, we might be able to come up with new theories/ideas.

What do ya'll think?

I did not know that Skyla had abrasions on the tops of her feet. Actually, both girls had abrasions, which indicates some type of possible struggle prior to the killings. MOO

wm

Kimmer
01-17-2011, 12:34 PM
I am wondering if any locals on here know how well the girls were liked in school? did they belong to any after school sports?

waltzingmatilda
01-17-2011, 06:35 PM
Kimmer, Both girls were cheerleaders. The school principal spoke highly of the girls from my recollection. I understand it is a very small school. There are locals on here who can give more insight than myself.

wm

LadyD'enah
02-09-2011, 03:10 AM
Please forgive me if this has been discussed before - I've only started going through this thread again and want to get this thought down before I forget.

It seems that the general consensus is that Taylor was the target here (if you don't subscribe to the wrong place-wrong time theory). So having said that, does anyone have any ideas on why Skyla was shot more times than Taylor? I'm thinking it's one of three things:

- pure chance that more bullets hit Skyla than hit Taylor
- the shooter was closer (emotionally) to Taylor and didn't want to hurt her as much (bit of a weak theory there I'll admit)
- Skyla was the real target

I'm really interested to hear what everyone else thinks. Once again, sorry if this has been discussed!

LadyD'enah
02-09-2011, 04:27 AM
Ok it's late at night here, but I've just finished pouring over the autopsy reports and all the comments on this thread, and just wanted to throw this idea out there. Even though I am probably wrong, at least it might spur someone on to have new ideas or thoughts!!

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that they thought Skyla may have been shot first (due to her appearing to have not reacted to the shots ala Taylor's wound to her hand). If this did in fact happen, it would make sense that not all 8 shots were fired at this time - just enough to take her down and then turn to Taylor without her having time to run. Maybe it is at this point that Skyla obtained some of the abrasions mentioned in the report? Possibly after this she gets up to run away and that is when the shooter/s turn back to her and hit her a few more times.

Maybe this scenario points something out to someone? Maybe the killer wanted Skyla to suffer by thinking she could get away? Maybe it indicates an inexperienced shooter (not inflicting a fatal would with the first few shots).

Sorry for the long post but I've just had another thought! Maybe the girls were ambushed of sorts... the car approached from behind the girls while they were walking...Skyla shot first in the back, Taylor turns around to see what is happening (which is how she ends up facing the shooter/s).

Hopefully I haven't made too much of a fool of myself! Just trying to generate some fresh new ideas, scenarios and theories here :)

Boots-OK
02-09-2011, 03:05 PM
Please forgive me if this has been discussed before - I've only started going through this thread again and want to get this thought down before I forget.

It seems that the general consensus is that Taylor was the target here (if you don't subscribe to the wrong place-wrong time theory). So having said that, does anyone have any ideas on why Skyla was shot more times than Taylor? I'm thinking it's one of three things:

- pure chance that more bullets hit Skyla than hit Taylor
- the shooter was closer (emotionally) to Taylor and didn't want to hurt her as much (bit of a weak theory there I'll admit)
- Skyla was the real target

I'm really interested to hear what everyone else thinks. Once again, sorry if this has been discussed!

My personal thoughts are that Skyla received more shots because the first ones didn't stop her. She was known to be very quick and agile. She may have attempted to flee at the first indication that something was amiss. With the brush and weeds so tall - she probably wasn't an easy target.

I believe she may have been shot first and the final shot was to Taylor's groin area. Difficult to speculate about shots 3 through 12 without knowing if there were one or two shooters. As always....many more questions that answers - and, this is all IMOO.

Regards to all...

Ruflossn
02-09-2011, 11:05 PM
Ok it's late at night here, but I've just finished pouring over the autopsy reports and all the comments on this thread, and just wanted to throw this idea out there. Even though I am probably wrong, at least it might spur someone on to have new ideas or thoughts!!

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that they thought Skyla may have been shot first (due to her appearing to have not reacted to the shots ala Taylor's wound to her hand). If this did in fact happen, it would make sense that not all 8 shots were fired at this time - just enough to take her down and then turn to Taylor without her having time to run. Maybe it is at this point that Skyla obtained some of the abrasions mentioned in the report? Possibly after this she gets up to run away and that is when the shooter/s turn back to her and hit her a few more times.

Maybe this scenario points something out to someone? Maybe the killer wanted Skyla to suffer by thinking she could get away? Maybe it indicates an inexperienced shooter (not inflicting a fatal would with the first few shots).

Sorry for the long post but I've just had another thought! Maybe the girls were ambushed of sorts... the car approached from behind the girls while
walking...Skyla shot first in the back, Taylor turns around to see whathappening (which is how she ends up facing the shooter/s).

Hopefully I haven't made too much of a fool of myself! Just trying to generate some fresh new ideas, scenarios and theories here :)


It is so nice to see some new thoughts and ideas being posted. I have not looked at the autopsy results in quite awhile. Were there entrance / gun shot wounds / Skylas back?

LadyD'enah
02-10-2011, 02:33 AM
It is so nice to see some new thoughts and ideas being posted. I have not looked at the autopsy results in quite awhile. Were there entrance / gun shot wounds / Skylas back?

Oh no! I read the report wrong - there are no entrance wounds on Skyla's back :(

There is the entrance wound on the right side of her neck though. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Was her head turned to look at something? Was she shot from the side? Maybe you have a different suggestion to add...

Boots-OK
02-10-2011, 11:28 PM
Oh no! I read the report wrong - there are no entrance wounds on Skyla's back :(

There is the entrance wound on the right side of her neck though. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Was her head turned to look at something? Was she shot from the side? Maybe you have a different suggestion to add...

Lady D - If memory serves me - most felt that she was attempting to flee to the right as she was located further back in the brush and to the right of Taylor (who was close to the road). As a result - I've always believed the shooter(s) was/were in the road when they shot the girls. I think some of Skyla's wounds are consistant with this theory. Didn't she also have a shot to the right lung area?

I haven't reviewed the autopsies in a long while either - so, I'm going strictly from memory here. Believe it may be time for a bit of a refresher.

Claudette
03-29-2011, 11:55 PM
I in no way have the ability to do this but it would be really interesting if we were able to get a 3d image or something similar that shows each entrance and exit wound pair - ie, first bullet gets a blue line that shows where the entrance and exit was. Second bullet gets a green line, etc. This would show us how high the shooter was if we had an idea about how far back they were. It also would help show how the girls were both standing/moving at the time and who was standing closer or further back. The information is in the reports, just don't know how we would go about doing something like this.

EnvoyDriver61
03-31-2011, 09:16 AM
I believe that shortly after the autopsy came out, a poster did do some sort of 3-D rendering of shots (maybe it was with a small doll or something) that was quite helpful. That was so long ago, it may have just been a good drawing, but if you look at the autopsy release thread, there is/was something that was helpful in seeing the wounds.

I believe this poster also speculated about the order of the shots.

waltzingmatilda
03-31-2011, 12:02 PM
I believe that shortly after the autopsy came out, a poster did do some sort of 3-D rendering of shots (maybe it was with a small doll or something) that was quite helpful. That was so long ago, it may have just been a good drawing, but if you look at the autopsy release thread, there is/was something that was helpful in seeing the wounds.

I believe this poster also speculated about the order of the shots.

I think the thread was called 'trajectory dolls'. I'll see if I can find it!

wm

waltzingmatilda
03-31-2011, 12:04 PM
Here's a link to the trajectory dolls......

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81218&highlight=trajectory+dolls

Claudette
04-08-2011, 10:45 PM
I'll have to search the other threads but there wasn't much speculation in the thread posted.

The pictures were really confusing....you would think this kind of stuff is all cut and dry but seeing it....it does not make any sense! Why are there entrances from so many different angles on different sides of the body? I mean Taylor's was really clear but Skyla's doesn't even make sense. I know many think Taylor was the target - I think it is possible, and the reason Skyla has so many more in so many nonsensical ways is she could have been in the way when they opened fire.

The only conclusion I can come up with Skyla is that she was shot from the front, fell onto her knees and hands (maybe after turning?) and that is why they are in the back and up the arm. Or she was pushed forward, and then rolled over or something? I think the other one makes more sense. Or maybe her arms were in the air. I'm sure this was already discussed but there are soooo many posts I can't even try to catch up.

As confusing as Skyla's is, it is interesting that there are two extremely different directions on both (the one coming from the right, the other coming from the left) and none are really head on.

belimom
04-09-2011, 12:02 AM
I think that Taylor went down pretty quickly, considering where she was hit in the head. I also think she fell backwards when she finally fell and that's where the groin shot came from?

As for Skyla, she doesn't appear to have taken as many hits directly in spots where she would go down quickly. Although they may have been 'fatal', she could still have been moving and trying to get away, crawl away, whatever... :(... so they kept shooting her.

This awful crime is one that bothers me as well - with no leads, etc. I really want it solved and hold out hope that it will be someday.

KeepThemOnTheRadar
07-17-2011, 03:14 AM
Got a question I wanna ask before I forget. Skyla was said to have an "atypical" exit wound. Sorry if this has already bees addressed. I was wondering if this could mean her atypical exit was smaller than or equal to the size of the exit wound rather than the usual larger exit?

Answered my own question. I don't know jack about gsw, but that atypical exit sounds lik an entrance in my kinder level mind. Not the I distrust the me, just moo.

KeepThemOnTheRadar
07-17-2011, 03:24 AM
I think that Taylor went down pretty quickly, considering where she was hit in the head. I also think she fell backwards when she finally fell and that's where the groin shot came from?

As for Skyla, she doesn't appear to have taken as many hits directly in spots where she would go down quickly. Although they may have been 'fatal', she could still have been moving and trying to get away, crawl away, whatever... :(... so they kept shooting her.

This awful crime is one that bothers me as well - with no leads, etc. I really want it solved and hold out hope that it will be someday.

Belimom, I to am very troubled by the lack of resolve in this case :confused: unless something has been released in the last 3 months I'm unaware of. This is a sickening mess and the autopsy reports make it even worse. Soooo many questions unanswered by those autopsies. :/

Pensfan
07-18-2011, 08:36 PM
An atypical gunshot wound is one where the exit wound is not larger than the entrance wound or the exit wound edges are not jagged. IMO, this means that Skyla was shot with a high velocity rifle or a gun with very large/heavy bullets and the bullet went straight through her without expanding/damaging the tissues surrounding the path of the bullet. (Lord have mercy.)

IMO, the OSBI needs to release the make of the second weapon and all other evidence they have collected since they cannot solve this horrific crime. Let the citizens solve this demonic crime.