Caylee Anthony 2 year old General Discussion #71

[CW]

Continue posting here. ALSO I'M ADVISING EVERYONE TO GO AND READ THE STICKY MODERATOR NOTES UP AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM THAT IS A STICKY. THERE WILL BE NO MORE WARNINGS REGARDING THESE MATTER.

[Hailiejade77]

20 minutes and it will be sweet little Caylee's 3rd Birthday! PRAYING for a miracle.

[fixingtoburst]

I wonder if Cindy hadn't been so pissed off that Casey had stolen from her if she'd have called the cops at all? I mean I would have reported my child missing long before I reported that my daughter had forged off my checking account and my car had been stolen. Those items can be replaced, but not my grand daughter.

[Hisimage]

I think Cindy and George had probably decided to start a little tough love.
I am sure there were many days and nights that they stayed up worrying.

I also think it was getting to the point that they were going to try to get custody.
Something in one of the phone calls caused me to believe this. (the 911 call) where she did not know she was being taped,

[beetrue]

20 minutes and it will be sweet little caylee's 3rd birthday! Praying for a miracle.

me too!!!

[fixingtoburst]

Why wasn't Cindy's first concern Caylee?

[beetrue]

I think Cindy and George had probably decided to start a little tough love.
I am sure there were many days and nights that they stayed up worrying.

I also think it was getting to the point that they were going to try to get custody.
Something in one of the phone calls caused me to believe this. (the 911 call) where she did not know she was being taped,

Also, you wrote: "I think your right. This would be the reason George and Cindy went a month without really being distressed as to where their grand daughter was. They probably felt Casey was just holding her hostage. Punishing them for not indulging her."


I have looked at it this way, too.

[cricket]

I wonder if Cindy hadn't been so pissed off that Casey had stolen from her if she'd have called the cops at all? I mean I would have reported my child missing long before I reported that my daughter had forged off my checking account and my car had been stolen. Those items can be replaced, but not my grand daughter.


If you listen to those calls in sequence, you will understand at what point Cindy realized that Casey hadn't seen Caylee in a month and that she didn't know where she was. Cindy's emotional state between the second and third call totally changes - after she overhears Casey telling Lee that Caylee had been "kidnapped."

[chrisg]

I wonder if Cindy hadn't been so pissed off that Casey had stolen from her if she'd have called the cops at all? I mean I would have reported my child missing long before I reported that my daughter had forged off my checking account and my car had been stolen. Those items can be replaced, but not my grand daughter.

fixingtoburst, have you read that myspace message that Cindy wrote? In that message she mentions the money but goes on and on about Caylee and being concerned about her. IMO, she was always more concerned about the welfare of her grandaughter.

[gigi2009]

And seriously--we know George lied. He lied about the gas cans for one. First he said they were stolen. Then he said a neighbor fessed up and it's all worked out. Then he admitted he knew the same day he reported tham stolen that Casey stole them. That's a fact. Okay, now I'm done on that subject.

I think tomorrow will not be the party that Cindy was hoping to have. I'm hoping that they see the light and get tough with Casey. They are the only ones that can visit (other than her lawyer) and get through to her. I'm wondering if she's gonna cancel further visits like she did with Lee? If so, then I think the worst is to come.

[beetrue]

Why wasn't Cindy's first concern Caylee?


It was. Where did you get the impression she was not? Or did you mean Casey did not feel concerned of Caylee first?

[fixingtoburst]

The bank would cover the forgeries. Car insurance would replace the missing car. Why the heck were those the two things mentioned to the 911 operator instead of the missing grandaughter??

[kpass]

I don't believe ONE word Casey says! If you ask me, she killed Caylee (maybe by accident) who knows! BUT, it's obvious from the pics of her in the bar FIVE days after Caylee supposedly went "missing" that she doesn't want the burden of having a child...It's very sad for her parents, the grandparents of little Caylee because they obviously want to believe their daughter & are in denial of the fact that she could be a murderer. As a grandmother of a 2 year old grandaughter, I honestly can say that I have sympathy for them especially in the days/weeks to come...they will eventually find out what REALLY happened to her & realize Casey has been lying all along. God, I hope I'm wrong, but this is what my gut is telling me. Little Caylee is in my thoughts & prayers.

[cricket]

Also, you wrote: "I think your right. This would be the reason George and Cindy went a month without really being distressed as to where their grand daughter was. They probably felt Casey was just holding her hostage. Punishing them for not indulging her."


I have looked at it this way, too.


me too.

[robotdog]

i think they will find the baby 50- 60 miles away

they wont find her near the home

1 hour drive away - buried

1 hour drive back home

they should find some areas 50-60 miles away where she has visited before.

parks, wooded areas, campgrounds, etc etc etc

shovel wasnt for the garden or the lock on the door

why not ask the neighbor for some metal cutters or a hammer

[RR0004]

Also, you wrote: "I think your right. This would be the reason George and Cindy went a month without really being distressed as to where their grand daughter was. They probably felt Casey was just holding her hostage. Punishing them for not indulging her."


I have looked at it this way, too.
Sad to say, but I have to. How cruel IMO!

[beetrue]

And seriously--we know George lied. He lied about the gas cans for one. First he said they were stolen. Then he said a neighbor fessed up and it's all worked out. Then he admitted he knew the same day he reported tham stolen that Casey stole them. That's a fact. Okay, now I'm done on that subject.

I think tomorrow will not be the party that Cindy was hoping to have. I'm hoping that they see the light and get tough with Casey. They are the only ones that can visit (other than her lawyer) and get through to her. I'm wondering if she's gonna cancel further visits like she did with Lee? If so, then I think the worst is to come.

Where are you getting your information that George lied? Proof? This is asked without antagonising tone. How do you know that he did not report the gasoline tins stolen, when he found out otherwise, then he cancelled?

[amasleuth]

I'm reposting this from the old thread, because I really want some feedback.
TIA
>
Casey's parents had been told that "Zannie" was the nanny for awhile, right?
IMO
Zannie the Nanny, was Xanax,(also known as "Zannie's")
IMO
Casey may have gotten great satisfaction from telling the parents Caylee was with "Zannie the Nanny", in the past, because they didn't get it, and thought Znnie was an actual person.
IMO
As Caylee became more of a handful, (Terrible twos), she may have used her chemical nanny more often.
IMO
One one of those occasions, Caylee OD'd.
Initially, Casey panicked, but as she thought it through, she saw it as a blessing, and just had to figure out how to get away with it, with her reputation intact.
IMO
She may have disposed of Caylee's body early on, and had to keep making excuses as to where her baby was, until she could figure it all out.
IMO
Casey went to Sawgrass hoping to get an apt. close to Tony's (either too squat in, or live in), and came across a person named Zaneida.
She never spoke w/her, but the name stuck in her head.
IMO
Casey was too busy compulsively living her fantasy life to think of a plan that would work.
She'd abandoned the car, but could still get around..there was no urgency to figure a way out.
She kept putting it off--she was having too much fun.
Besides, it was all okay, her parents were buying her excuses still.
Why not have fun?
IMO
Casey's doormat mom, did something uncharacteristic: she challenged Casey, and Casey had to scramble. She remembered the name Zaneida, and used it when her mom pressed her about going to Zannie's to see Caylee.
That's where Zaneida as Zannie was born and she ran with it.

Again, all my opinion, but i'm curious as to what y'all think.
I live here in central fla, so all I think about is this case.

[panthera]

Why wasn't Cindy's first concern Caylee?
It might not have dawned on her when she placed the first 911 call just what had really been going on for a month. She'd tried to see or talk with Caylee but was given an excuse each time and maybe she finally had just had enough and started asking Casey some questions in between those 911 calls on 7/15. She seemed frantic when she called 911 again to report Caylee missing.

[Hisimage]

Perhaps its the reason they so want to believe her. They feel guilty for not tracking her down and bringing her home like everyone was used to them doing.

[fixingtoburst]

I guess my thought would be that Cindy would be sitting there screaming at Casey about all the stuff she's stolen and then say the only reason I haven't turned you in before now is because of Caylee. And then saying and where is Caylee and the whole story coming out.

[PassTheMotrin]

I totally agree with what amasleuth said on thread #70; I've thought that from the very first day this story hit the news.

[ketel0ne]

What else can Casey be charged with if they know Caylee is dead, but no cause of death.

Manslaughter
Child neglect (tougher charge?)
Obstruction of justice (Can this be multiple counts)
Mistreatment of a corpse

More.......

[Hisimage]

I still can't help but wonder if the truth about the gas cans is it helped Casey to get to where she needed to go. No stops at gas stations.
2 gas cans?? come on who would do that even if you did have a faulty fuel gage.

[ketel0ne]

Perhaps its the reason they so want to believe her. They feel guilty for not tracking her down and bringing her home like everyone was used to them doing.

They may just feel guilty for whatever was going on to make them not answer the phone on the June 16th.

[AmyD]

Perhaps its the reason they so want to believe her. They feel guilty for not tracking her down and bringing her home like everyone was used to them doing.

You make a good point. Cindy's probably experiencing overwhelming GUILT. I have never seen anyone in such a drastic state of denial!!!

[beetrue]

Sad to say, but I have to. How cruel IMO!

I really hope/pray/wish that Caylee is alive and will come home. But regardless of what happened, I have been under the impression that Casey is in habit of emotionally black-mailing the grandparents. That is just my take on it. Someone here said that she seemed to be bullying the family per her jail-phone calls. And I interpreted the same from listening and reading them.

[fixingtoburst]

Please don't shoot me for asking this, but does anyone believe that Caylee Anthony is still alive?

[LI_Mom]

Why wasn't Cindy's first concern Caylee?

I honestly don't think Cindy KNEW Caylee was missing until she was already on the phone w/ 911 the first time.

I think they blew up at Casey about the car & the stealing..... and I think Casey dropped this BOMB on them out of the clear blue sky.


Maybe the idiot thought her parents would just tell the police 'never mind' (about the car/stealing) when they arrived. I doubt she imagined they would tell the police Caylee was missing.

She probably figured she could convince them of how much danger Caylee would be in IF they went to police & then she just just keep pretending to do her own 'investigations' until she figured out what to do next. Give them 'assignments' to keep them busy searching & off her back & just play it all by ear.

We can certainly see how willing they are to BELIEVE Casey's nonsense.

[ketel0ne]

Where are you getting your information that George lied? Proof? This is asked without antagonising tone. How do you know that he did not report the gasoline tins stolen, when he found out otherwise, then he cancelled?

So changing your story to the press and the public is ok if you were truthful to authorities?

[CitizenKim]

Originally Posted by amasleuth
Casey's parents had been told that "Zannie" was the nanny for awhile, right?
IMO
Zannie the Nanny, was Xanax,(also known as "Zannie's")

Casey's doormat mom, did something uncharacteristic: she challenged Casey, and Casey had to scramble. She remembered the name Zaneida, and used it when her mom pressed her about going to Zannie's to see Caylee.
That's where Zaneida as Zannie was born and she ran with it.

Again, all my opinion, but i'm curious as to what y'all think.
I live here in central fla, so all I think about is this case.
--snipped from your previous post.

I'm local too and can think of little else. I built a timeline speculating the very same or very similar theory - w/Zanny (Xanax) the nanny on my blog.

I think Casey must have built an "identity" of sorts for Zanny a good while ago. Maybe she found an actual person that she could point to- poor ZG. I can't imagine Cindy not needing some very detailed information about who was caring for her precious Caylee.

She also had from about 6/16 to 7/15 to spin her story and come up w/these elaborate tales- and she's quite the schemer. She just way overestimated her intelligence.

[panthera]

amasleuth ~ I like your thoughts, and I agree it's possible "Zanny" (xanax) was being used as the babysitter or Casey left Caylee unattended in a hot car while she was off clubbing. I'm kind of torn between theories on whether she intentionally killed her to get back at her mom for giving Caylee all the attention, or intentionally killed her because Caylee didn't fit in with a partying lifestyle and single friends without kids, or whether Caylee died accidentally like from being left in the car, medicated. I still can't figure out how "Zenaida" fits in or where Casey got her name from and that apt. complex. One theory given last night on Fox News was that maybe there's somebody both the Zenaida (interviewed on tv) and Casey know? That would make sense to me, and how Casey found out Zenaida was going to look at those apts. & decided to make her part of "Caylee's abduction". Good points you suggested though! :)

[lillyfrog]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but I am trying to understand something.....

Cindy was reporting that Casey had stolen her car to the 911 operator but then in that last frantic call she said "I just found my daughter's car today and it ....."

Whose car was it??? If she considers it "her daughter's car" why do you think she would be reporting it stolen?

[SillyNilly]

Sorry if I missed this, but has it already been established just how much gas was left in the "gas cans" and how large these cans are?

[Hisimage]

I really hope/pray/wish that Caylee is alive and will come home. But regardless of what happened, I have been under the impression that Casey is in habit of emotionally black-mailing the grandparents. That is just my take on it. Someone here said that she seemed to be bullying the family per her jail-phone calls. And I interpreted the same from listening and reading them.

Then I pray that if grandparents are basking in emotional guilt and covering Caseys rear because of it they release it. That they realize they really did what any parent would do (making her be accountable) and know that there was no way they could have changed it.

[robotdog]

if you took a couple cans of gas and went to an isolated location and attempted to burn a body and then after you burned it - buried the remains

this would make it tough to find a body without knowing a specific location
the smell while burning would be horrific but thats why you would go to an isolated location.

[chrisg]

Please don't shoot me for asking this, but does anyone believe that Caylee Anthony is still alive?

Not w/ the way the smell of that car was referred to. I certainly don't.

[beetrue]

You make a good point. Cindy's probably experiencing overwhelming GUILT. I have never seen anyone in such a drastic state of denial!!!

Absolut, AmyD, and Hisimage -
When I put myself in their shoes, or my own parent's... I think of what sort of guilt and blame is going on in the Anthony home. Even those who have not parented and lost someone they loved, they will tend to wish "they had been there" or feel they "should have been".

[Hisimage]

I just don't think she used the gas to get rid of evidence. I think she used it to get to where she needed to be. Or whoever used the gas.

[panthera]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but I am trying to understand something.....

Cindy was reporting that Casey had stolen her car to the 911 operator but then in that last frantic call she said "I just found my daughter's car today and it ....."

Whose car was it??? If she considers it "her daughter's car" why do you think she would be reporting it stolen?
I assumed it's a car she & George own that Casey uses. After all they're the ones who had to retrieve it from impound, so their names must be on the registration. MOO :)

[fixingtoburst]

I so want this little girl to be found sunning on the beach somewhere because anything happening to a child is to horrific to comprehend, but the reality is probably not that.

[ketel0ne]

Please don't shoot me for asking this, but does anyone believe that Caylee Anthony is still alive?

This may come out odd, but I only think that she could be because Casey is her mom. She may have one more story in her that could top all this and Caylee would be alive and it might actually be true. If it was any other person on the planet I would say absolutly not.

Sadly, there is always the cadaver dogs.

[chrisg]

if you took a couple cans of gas and went to an isolated location and attempted to burn a body and then after you burned it - buried the remains

this would make it tough to find a body without knowing a specific location
the smell while burning would be horrific but thats why you would go to an isolated location.

I posted earlier today that I thought she burned the body but someone told me you can't burn a body w/ gasoline. Has anyone else heard that this is so? Perhaps Casey didn't realize that this is the case and her motive in taking the gas was to burn the body whether or not it was successful.

[beetrue]

Then I pray that if grandparents are basking in emotional guilt and covering Caseys rear because of it they release it. That they realize they really did what any parent would do (making her be accountable) and know that there was no way they could have changed it.

I agree. If they have the gut feeling... they should do what is "just" for Caylee.

[RR0004]

I really hope/pray/wish that Caylee is alive and will come home. But regardless of what happened, I have been under the impression that Casey is in habit of emotionally black-mailing the grandparents. That is just my take on it. Someone here said that she seemed to be bullying the family per her jail-phone calls. And I interpreted the same from listening and reading them.
In my heart I need to believe that Caylee is somewhere safe. I think that Casey has done enough to torture her family. It's time for that child to come home. Happy Birthday, Sweet Caylee!

[fixingtoburst]

How accurate are cadaver dogs? Would they know the difference between a human cadaver and the smell of perhaps a buried pet?

[ketel0ne]

Absolut, AmyD, and Hisimage -
When I put myself in their shoes, or my own parent's... I think of what sort of guilt and blame is going on in the Anthony home. Even those who have not parented and lost someone they loved, they will tend to wish "they had been there" or feel they "should have been".

We still have no idea what really could have happened in the last 24 hours in that house. We have no idea why the calls from Casey from 3-4pm went unanswered. I think that 24-36 hours could provide enough guilt for a lifetime.

[panthera]

Please don't shoot me for asking this, but does anyone believe that Caylee Anthony is still alive?
I pray she is, but sadly, I think the true answer came right from Cindy's mouth when she told the 911 operator the car smelled like a dead body. Another thing is if the preliminary forensic testing came up negative, there wouldn't be anything to send to the FBI lab for further DNA tests. :(

[robotdog]

I posted earlier today that I thought she burned the body but someone told me you can't burn a body w/ gasoline. Has anyone else heard that this is so? Perhaps Casey didn't realize that this is the case and her motive in taking the gas was to burn the body whether or not it was successful.


well you can burn anything with gasoline
some things dont burn as well


since hospitals have burn units for people - they can burn

but it is diffiult to make a body burn and turn into dust but if you mix a burned body with other debris and then bury it in an isolated location
it sure makes things difficult

[panthera]

How accurate are cadaver dogs? Would they know the difference between a human cadaver and the smell of perhaps a buried pet?
Yes they would know the difference. There were also two different dogs that each "hit".

[Beagle1]

I really hope/pray/wish that Caylee is alive and will come home. But regardless of what happened, I have been under the impression that Casey is in habit of emotionally black-mailing the grandparents. That is just my take on it. Someone here said that she seemed to be bullying the family per her jail-phone calls. And I interpreted the same from listening and reading them.

I think that Casey was telling them that she was working from home as a contractor. When she went out during the day, she said that she was leaving Caylee with the nanny. She was also going out at night and she was leaving Caylee with friends and most often took Caylee with her (except when she went to clubs). In most of her pictures, she was partying at houses etc and I think she was taking Caylee with her and the group was the nanny. It sounds like she would go out overnight and again Caylee was with her. She told her mother for years that a dependable Nanny was keeping Caylee.
If Cindy questioned her she would exert her independence and threatened that she and Caylee would move out.
Long post, but I do think that something like this was going on.

[RR0004]

amasleuth ~ I like your thoughts, and I agree it's possible "Zanny" (xanax) was being used as the babysitter or Casey left Caylee unattended in a hot car while she was off clubbing. I'm kind of torn between theories on whether she intentionally killed her to get back at her mom for giving Caylee all the attention, or intentionally killed her because Caylee didn't fit in with a partying lifestyle and single friends without kids, or whether Caylee died accidentally like from being left in the car, medicated. I still can't figure out how "Zenaida" fits in or where Casey got her name from and that apt. complex. One theory given last night on Fox News was that maybe there's somebody both the Zenaida (interviewed on tv) and Casey know? That would make sense to me, and how Casey found out Zenaida was going to look at those apts. & decided to make her part of "Caylee's abduction". Good points you suggested though! :)
Well Casey has said that she was looking for ZG in the clubs so maybe there's someone that can be found there?

[Hisimage]

Absolut, AmyD, and Hisimage -
When I put myself in their shoes, or my own parent's... I think of what sort of guilt and blame is going on in the Anthony home. Even those who have not parented and lost someone they loved, they will tend to wish "they had been there" or feel they "should have been".

I know. And I now am beginning to feel just awful for them. Could you imagine talking together with one another the questions they are asking?
What could we have done? What should we have done?
Even if they still believe Caylee is alive. Their hearts have got to be breaking.

[Blink34]

This may come out odd, but I only think that she could be because Casey is her mom. She may have one more story in her that could top all this and Caylee would be alive and it might actually be true. If it was any other person on the planet I would say absolutly not.

Sadly, there is always the cadaver dogs.

well said, and not odd. I do not believe she is alive, but your point was well taken.

[robotdog]

computers are for posting
robots are made for roboting
shovels are meant for digging

[cricket]

I'm reposting this from the old thread, because I really want some feedback.
TIA
>
snip

Again, all my opinion, but i'm curious as to what y'all think.
I live here in central fla, so all I think about is this case.

I think your theory makes a lot of sense.

But I don't understand, once LE was called and she was arrested, how she has been able to stick to the lies and not crack. I mentioned on the last thread that she seems to have compartmentalized her brain and is not allowing herself to think about what really happened. It's weird.

[RR0004]

I assumed it's a car she & George own that Casey uses. After all they're the ones who had to retrieve it from impound, so their names must be on the registration. MOO :)
I believe the car was one that Lee used first...then Casey.

[gigi2009]

Where are you getting your information that George lied? Proof? This is asked without antagonising tone. How do you know that he did not report the gasoline tins stolen, when he found out otherwise, then he cancelled?

No worries--:D


Here's a quote from:http://www.wftv.com/news/17058741/detail.html


"Friday, investigators went to the Anthony family home and removed gas cans. The cans were reported stolen in late June around the time Caylee may have disappeared. George Anthony said the cans were taken by a neighbor but admits his daughter had stolen gas from his home in the past. Sources close to the investigation say they don't believe the cans were used to burn or destroy evidence. But investigators do want to test the cans to see if they were near Caylee before she disappeared."

Took me a bit to find it because it happened quite a few days ago. Also he did not amend the police report that day or since.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-caylee-marie-anthony-080608,0,2502078.story

"During a televised interview Tuesday with Greta Van Susteren of Fox News Channel, George Anthony said he discovered the gas cans inside the trunk of Casey's car on the same day he had reported them stolen."

[beetrue]

I posted earlier today that I thought she burned the body but someone told me you can't burn a body w/ gasoline. Has anyone else heard that this is so? Perhaps Casey didn't realize that this is the case and her motive in taking the gas was to burn the body whether or not it was successful.

it is extremely dangerous and would take a lot of time. Most likely, trying to do so would cause so many toxins and mess that the person trying to do so would not be able to stay there. Maybe that is why someone would say it to be impossible.

[DianeB]

Why would Casey go to the trouble of attempting to burn a body when it would be easier to go the trash bag/dumpster route?

She's in a major tourist destination in the middle of tourist season. The amount of trash generated in Orlando in the summer must be immense.

[RR0004]

I know. And I now am beginning to feel just awful for them. Could you imagine talking together with one another the questions they are asking?
What could we have done? What should we have done?
Even if they still believe Caylee is alive. Their hearts have got to be breaking.
"Would ofs", "could ofs", "should of"s can kill you. If I have any advice to give the family it would be to NOT beat themselves up with that.

[fixingtoburst]

I don't know how any person could burn their loved one's body. Especially their baby's.

[robotdog]

it is extremely dangerous and would take a lot of time. Most likely, trying to do so would cause so many toxins and mess that the person trying to do so would not be able to stay there. Maybe that is why someone would say it to be impossible.

she had plenty of time

her clothes reaked

thats how she did it - in my opinion

[SweetDreamOfYou]

How accurate are cadaver dogs? Would they know the difference between a human cadaver and the smell of perhaps a buried pet?

yes they would

[robotdog]

Why would Casey go to the trouble of attempting to burn a body when it would be easier to go the trash bag/dumpster route?

She's in a major tourist destination in the middle of tourist season. The amount of trash generated in Orlando in the summer must be immense.


i agree
but then again nothing she has done makes sense :D

[daisy7]

Why has Casey been charged with filing a "false" police report. Cindy filed the report and even if Casey did, why is it false?

Want to hear your thoughts...Thanks!

[beetrue]

No worries--:D


Here's a quote from:http://www.wftv.com/news/17058741/detail.html


"Friday, investigators went to the Anthony family home and removed gas cans. The cans were reported stolen in late June around the time Caylee may have disappeared. George Anthony said the cans were taken by a neighbor but admits his daughter had stolen gas from his home in the past. Sources close to the investigation say they don't believe the cans were used to burn or destroy evidence. But investigators do want to test the cans to see if they were near Caylee before she disappeared."

Took me a bit to find it because it happened quite a few days ago. Also he did not amend the police report that day or since.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-caylee-marie-anthony-080608,0,2502078.story

"During a televised interview Tuesday with Greta Van Susteren of Fox News Channel, George Anthony said he discovered the gas cans inside the trunk of Casey's car on the same day he had reported them stolen."


understood. but, how does that prove he lied about it? if he genuinely thought they were stolen, he did not lie. and it proves another time CASEY betrayed her family. blegh. :/

[fixingtoburst]

Oh and if Caylee is found alive then I'll be the first to volunteer to foster her. She looks like my four little girls and there'd be no nanny or mommy's gotta go clubbing for her.

[wishingtree]

Absolut, AmyD, and Hisimage -
When I put myself in their shoes, or my own parent's... I think of what sort of guilt and blame is going on in the Anthony home. Even those who have not parented and lost someone they loved, they will tend to wish "they had been there" or feel they "should have been".

This is very true. When I lost my Mom to suicide 6 years ago I honestly expected everyone to blame ME. I was shocked when people expressed sympathy. I read a lot of grief books that said this was a normal reaction, but an inaccurate one and that we shouldn't blame ourselves. Yet my guilt was so strong that when I started seeing a therapist my first words to him were "I know most of your patients feel guilty and you tell them that they aren't supposed to feel that way, but I'm the exception to the rule. I am guilty." It took a couple years to accept that there was nothing I could have done to change things, but guilt still creeps in from time to time. Maybe - just maybe - the Anthony's feel some similar type of guilt for letting Casey do as she pleased all these years. Our situations are completely different, so I can't say that with certainty of course, but it does make a little bit of sense to me.

[beetrue]

Why has Casey been charged with filing a "false" police report. Cindy filed the report and even if Casey did, why is it false?

Want to hear your thoughts...Thanks!

Cindy made the call. Casey filed the report.

[rozey]

Well Casey has said that she was looking for ZG in the clubs so maybe there's someone that can be found there?

If 'Zanny' is the street name for xanax, wouldn't they be readily available at the clubs that Casey frequented? So maybe this is true that she was at the clubs looking for 'zanny'. Aren't lies that contain some truth the most believable?

[chrisg]

Where are you getting your information that George lied? Proof? This is asked without antagonising tone. How do you know that he did not report the gasoline tins stolen, when he found out otherwise, then he cancelled?

This is an antagonizing tone though. You did the same thing to me when you posted that 'you can't say someone is a liar unless you KNOW them' and I responded that I don't know Casey but she has been proven to be a liar. You then said to take the S off when I never once called her family members liars. Chill out. People have a right to express their opinions.

And while Cindy and George intially told the police that they felt Casey was witholding information--this is in the police report and the 911 call--they now are expresssing no doubt whatsoever in their daughter's colorful and ludicrous tale of a kidnapping to the extent of being antagonistic toward LE in the media.

I wouldn't call this a lie--nor have I done so--but it is certainly a different position than they took earlier w/ LE and while I do have sympathy and compassion for them--unlike Casey--I can certainly understand why people are frustrated w/ Cindy and George Anthony.

[cricket]

Please don't shoot me for asking this, but does anyone believe that Caylee Anthony is still alive?

I have faith in the dogs and NO faith in all of Casey's lies. Unfortunately, I do not think she is alive.

[gigi2009]

Because when he was telling everyone that a neighbor took the gas cans and it was a non issue, it was all worked out--that was a lie. He knew the same day Casey took the gas cans. It wasn't until later that he admitted that Casey took them.

[panthera]

Well Casey has said that she was looking for ZG in the clubs so maybe there's someone that can be found there?
Oh, yes I do remember that, but since it came from Casey we don't know if it's true or not. There just has to be some connection to this coincidence that Casey gives the Sawgrass Apts. as the place she dropped off Caylee and on 6/17 Zenaida looks at an apt. there yet Zenaida says she doesn't know Casey. So who knows them both?

[lillyfrog]

If 'Zanny' is the street name for xanax, wouldn't they be readily available at the clubs that Casey frequented? So maybe this is true that she was at the clubs looking for 'zanny'. Aren't lies that contain some truth the most believable?
Well said...nice spin you put on that!

[CitizenKim]

I think she was preparing her story from 6/16-7/15.

She stuck to her "I work at Universal" story until the bitter end. This girl is used to getting away w/it and now she's in way over her head.

I replied about your theory too- I agree- I wrote a similar timeline- this thing moves so fast!

I think your theory makes a lot of sense.

But I don't understand, once LE was called and she was arrested, how she has been able to stick to the lies and not crack. I mentioned on the last thread that she seems to have compartmentalized her brain and is not allowing herself to think about what really happened. It's weird.

[panthera]

If 'Zanny' is the street name for xanax, wouldn't they be readily available at the clubs that Casey frequented? So maybe this is true that she was at the clubs looking for 'zanny'. Aren't lies that contain some truth the most believable?
I think you've hit on it! I agree, in all these lies, there is some truth you just have to figure out what it is, like pieces of a puzzle.

[RR0004]

If 'Zanny' is the street name for xanax, wouldn't they be readily available at the clubs that Casey frequented? So maybe this is true that she was at the clubs looking for 'zanny'. Aren't lies that contain some truth the most believable?
You betcha!

[Aleve N Fla]

My apologies if it was already.. but I just read on our local news that there is a theory going around with local investigators about Caylee possibly drowning.

Here is the link to the story

http://www.wftv.com/news/17136493/detail.html


My heart aches everytime I think of her

[beetrue]

This is very true. When I lost my Mom to suicide 6 years ago I honestly expected everyone to blame ME. I was shocked when people expressed sympathy. I read a lot of grief books that said this was a normal reaction, but an inaccurate one and that we shouldn't blame ourselves. Yet my guilt was so strong that when I started seeing a therapist my first words to him were "I know most of your patients feel guilty and you tell them that they aren't supposed to feel that way, but I'm the exception to the rule. I am guilty." It took a couple years to accept that there was nothing I could have done to change things, but guilt still creeps in from time to time. Maybe - just maybe - the Anthony's feel some similar type of guilt for letting Casey do as she pleased all these years. Our situations are completely different, so I can't say that with certainty of course, but it does make a little bit of sense to me.


Parents usually do feel responsible for their children, no matter what their age is... and even if they try to rationalise they are not at fault. And then, there are those children who had reverse roles in their relationships with their parents... where the children feel responsible for their parent/s well-being. I am sorry about your Mum, Wishingtree. *hug*

[RR0004]

Oh, yes I do remember that, but since it came from Casey we don't know if it's true or not. There just has to be some connection to this coincidence that Casey gives the Sawgrass Apts. as the place she dropped off Caylee and on 6/17 Zenaida looks at an apt. there yet Zenaida says she doesn't know Casey. So who knows them both?
That's why I suggested the clubs.

[wishingtree]

If 'Zanny' is the street name for xanax, wouldn't they be readily available at the clubs that Casey frequented? So maybe this is true that she was at the clubs looking for 'zanny'. Aren't lies that contain some truth the most believable?

That makes perfect sense to me!

[imnotheonlyone]

Has it been stated what date the "latest call" released to media (Casey asking Lee to have Jose contact her) was made?

[gigi2009]

Beetrue--I did answer-wasn't sure you saw it.

Because when he was telling everyone that a neighbor took the gas cans and it was a non issue, it was all worked out--that was a lie. He knew the same day Casey took the gas cans. It wasn't until later that he admitted that Casey took them.

[beetrue]

CO-OWNED/CO-SIGNED. So both.


Forgive me if this is a stupid question but I am trying to understand something.....

Cindy was reporting that Casey had stolen her car to the 911 operator but then in that last frantic call she said "I just found my daughter's car today and it ....."

Whose car was it??? If she considers it "her daughter's car" why do you think she would be reporting it stolen?

[ketel0ne]

Has it been stated what date the "latest call" released to media (Casey asking Lee to have Jose contact her) was made?

Aug 2nd.

[ketel0ne]

Did we establish for sure casey only has a learners permit? It was discussed at length early on.

[JBean]

understood. but, how does that prove he lied about it? if he genuinely thought they were stolen, he did not lie. and it proves another time CASEY betrayed her family. blegh. :/Hi Beetrue.George originally filed a report for the gas cans not knowing who stole them. Later that day he found them in Casey's trunk and realized that she took them. She tried to keep him from seeing them in her trunk. When he was asked about his police report early on, he said a neighbor took the cans. IMO, he said that because he did not think they had anything to do with anything and his daughter was already being persecuted and he didn't want to have to say to the public that she also stole his gas cans. but once he came to realize that they possibly significant, he told authorities what happened. Not right but he did correct himself and own up to his lie.
IMO, he should have been honest, but I see this as aberrent behavior on his part and he has been consistently helpful and truthful throughout. I believe him to be an honest individual whose family is falling apart because of his daughter. He is doing what he can, but it will not be enough and I think it will be a long time before this family can heal.

[fixingtoburst]

I think the date of the forgery affidavits is very important. If they were signed two weeks before she confronted Casey, then I would think that Cindy was using them as something to hold over Casey's head.

[kpass]

What about the pants??? Cindy found pants that smelled like the car (a dead body) WHY would she wash them? Makes NO sense to me...C'mon, she's married to a cop, she should have known better! Something's very weird with that whole scenario. Mmmmmmmmmaybe she was trying to "help" her daughter at the time? This part of it stinks bad!

[Blink34]

Why would Casey go to the trouble of attempting to burn a body when it would be easier to go the trash bag/dumpster route?

She's in a major tourist destination in the middle of tourist season. The amount of trash generated in Orlando in the summer must be immense.

She wouldnt. But she would be smart enough to burn any evidence that might tie her to her death; sheets, clothes, pillow case

[panthera]

My apologies if it was already.. but I just read on our local news that there is a theory going around with local investigators about Caylee possibly drowning.

Here is the link to the story

http://www.wftv.com/news/17136493/detail.html


My heart aches everytime I think of her
Thanks for posting the article ~ I hadn't seen that one, but knew LE was checking out the swimming pool as a possibility. I can see why they're considering it with the strange behavior around the house, such as backing her car up to the garage, the ladder being moved, borrowing the shovel taken with the odor of decomposition in the car which would come from the body having been moved after even a short period of time in the ground. That smell, imo, wouldn't be in the car if Caylee had just died in the car & had been removed a couple of hours later, or had just been transported in the car someplace right after she'd died.

[swa]

Not w/ the way the smell of that car was referred to. I certainly don't.

Unfortunately, I agree. The dead body smell and the dogs hitting on it are pretty damning evidence.

UNLESS -- Casey was transporting another corpse in there -- you never know... maybe the next story will be that she was working at a morgue.

[ketel0ne]

What about the pants??? Cindy found pants that smelled like the car (a dead body) WHY would she wash them? Makes NO sense to me...C'mon, she's married to a cop, she should have known better! Something's very weird with that whole scenario. Mmmmmmmmmaybe she was trying to "help" her daughter at the time? This part of it stinks bad!
I rarely stand up for Cindy, but I think I would hold LE equally responsbility for this one, unless Casey's really derailed the beginning of the investigation that badly. If so the focus may have been too tight.

[L L & S]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but I am trying to understand something.....

Cindy was reporting that Casey had stolen her car to the 911 operator but then in that last frantic call she said "I just found my daughter's car today and it ....."

Whose car was it??? If she considers it "her daughter's car" why do you think she would be reporting it stolen?
Cindy also referred to it as "the car she (Casey) drives" as one point.

[Blink34]

Did we establish for sure casey only has a learners permit? It was discussed at length early on.

How is that possible- she could not drive the car on her own with just a permit vs. license, that's a driving without a lic charge as well??

[fixingtoburst]

Unfortunately, I agree. The dead body smell and the dogs hitting on it are pretty damning evidence.

UNLESS -- Casey was transporting another corpse in there -- you never know... maybe the next story will be that she was working at a morgue.

You're right. She was probably using her car as a hearse so she could claim the gas mileage. We know how expensive gas is these days.

[panthera]

That's why I suggested the clubs.
I really think you might be on to something with this! :)

[CitizenKim]

What about the pants??? Cindy found pants that smelled like the car (a dead body) WHY would she wash them? Makes NO sense to me...C'mon, she's married to a cop, she should have known better! Something's very weird with that whole scenario. Mmmmmmmmmaybe she was trying to "help" her daughter at the time? This part of it stinks bad!

Are we clear that the interior of the car smelled like death or maybe it was just the trunk? Maybe the pants just smelled like smoke and not dead pizza? Trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

[ketel0ne]

How is that possible- she could not drive the car on her own with just a permit vs. license, that's a driving without a lic charge as well??

I am looking for everything she can be charged with. I would like see about 20 or 30 counts. I never saw anything definitive one way or the other. From a pattern perspective though it may be a lot like being a 1/2 credit short from graduating.

[olive]

What evidence do we have of these supposed flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents on the 16th? Just Fuhrman's assertion? If there is actual information, we should start a thread for it.

[panthera]

What about the pants??? Cindy found pants that smelled like the car (a dead body) WHY would she wash them? Makes NO sense to me...C'mon, she's married to a cop, she should have known better! Something's very weird with that whole scenario. Mmmmmmmmmaybe she was trying to "help" her daughter at the time? This part of it stinks bad!
She also found and removed boots & shoes. Maybe it was just stupid, disbelief that her daughter could've done something so horrible, or trying to protect Casey. Whatever, it may have destroyed some important evidence. I missed if LE has the items now or are they still in Cindy's house?

[ketel0ne]

Are we clear that the interior of the car smelled like death or maybe it was just the trunk? Maybe the pants just smelled like smoke and not dead pizza? Trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

As per the search warrant, those pants smelled like the car.

Not like the 3 duffle bags of clothes that smelled like smoke.

[fixingtoburst]

Most cars these days have those little safety things where if you're accidentally locked in the trunk you can escape through the back seat. So therefore it would be probable that the whole car could smell.

Oh and what peculiar language to use anyway. I think her saying the car "smelled like a dead body" was probably the give away.

[cricket]

This is very true. When I lost my Mom to suicide 6 years ago I honestly expected everyone to blame ME. I was shocked when people expressed sympathy. I read a lot of grief books that said this was a normal reaction, but an inaccurate one and that we shouldn't blame ourselves. Yet my guilt was so strong that when I started seeing a therapist my first words to him were "I know most of your patients feel guilty and you tell them that they aren't supposed to feel that way, but I'm the exception to the rule. I am guilty." It took a couple years to accept that there was nothing I could have done to change things, but guilt still creeps in from time to time. Maybe - just maybe - the Anthony's feel some similar type of guilt for letting Casey do as she pleased all these years. Our situations are completely different, so I can't say that with certainty of course, but it does make a little bit of sense to me.

I'm sorry for your loss. And I'm glad that you worked through it so you don't blame yourself. A child is not responsible for a parent's actions.

I think it's different when you are a parent and your child does something horrible. My youngest son got involved with drugs and stole things. Lots of things. And I can tell you that even though I know it's not my fault - I can't help but think I somehow failed as a parent, because I failed to instill the right values. Intellectually, I know it was the drugs in addition to anything I might have done/not done right as a parent, and certainly he made his own choices. I know that it will take awhile to work through it.

I can't begin to imagine what Casey's parents are going through. You'd feel horrible if it was as simple as Caylee died and it was an accident. You'd grieve, but you'd move on. But this long drawn out media circus and pile of lies is so way over the top, I don't know how they will ever recover from it.

[TravelingBug]

That's why I suggested the clubs.

Or someone (perhaps one of her LE tied guys) knew of the stolen identity of ZG right around that time, and figured it'd be easy to make it look like the person who stole the identity then went on to kidnap Caylee.

I think once Caylee was 'taken care of' after the accident or whatever, then Casey worked with SOMEONE to concoct her story.

I believe the plan was to make it seem lke it happened later...post the 24th (thus the phone call to JG where she had him hear Caylee...which slightly makes me think the "someone" is NOT JG and he was another person she used) and have it look like something happened to Casey and Caylee both (thus explaining the car and purse abandoned). I think they expected the car to be found sooner, people to panic, and Casey to turn up/be found having "escaped" but Caylee having been taken...pinning it on the person who had robbed ZG.

When that scenario didn't work, they had to adapt it a bit and not have Casey appear having escaped from this person...unless that's where Cindy says we'll see Casey as a hero, if Casey's story would go on to say that she fought this person, etc. and fought for her daughter, but they got away with Caylee and Casey escaped.

From the little her friends have said, they thought Caylee was with "the nanny"...none of them said the name. I think the name came later on. Pin it on the person who stole the identity, and now you've got an anonymous bad guy using someone else's identity. That'd stall LE first looking at all the ZG's before someone might then connect the dots and then have to find the thief.

And that could explain her distrust of local LE. What local LE person would believe one of their own gave the identity of the person who had the identity stolen over a girl who's claiming someone did?

[panthera]

What evidence do we have of these supposed flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents on the 16th? Just Fuhrman's assertion? If there is actual information, we should start a thread for it.
From the link just given a few posts back ~ not just Mark Fuhrman's speculation!

The theory is based on the following facts.

Fact #1: Casey Anthony's phone records show a flurry of unanswered phone calls to her parents on June 16.

Some believe that could be because that's when something happened to Caylee. A possibility being considered is Caylee could've gotten into the backyard pool on her own and was discovered too late.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17136493/detail.html

[ketel0ne]

She wouldnt. But she would be smart enough to burn any evidence that might tie her to her death; sheets, clothes, pillow case

She wasn't smart enough to get rid of the shoes, boots or pants out of the car. I count they were in there for 11 days and then sat at the amscot for another 3 and then a tow yard for 15 more.

[LI_Mom]

Are we clear that the interior of the car smelled like death or maybe it was just the trunk? Maybe the pants just smelled like smoke and not dead pizza? Trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

The only time they mentioned smelling smoke was when they explained why they threw out toys that were donated for Caylee.

[beetrue]

We still have no idea what really could have happened in the last 24 hours in that house. We have no idea why the calls from Casey from 3-4pm went unanswered. I think that 24-36 hours could provide enough guilt for a lifetime.


I fear that Casey left Caylee in her car the night she was clubbing in her blue dress. I worry that Caylee fell asleep and Casey thought she would just cover her, leave her there to sleep and went into the club... she then possibly went home with someone else -loaded/sick, and woke later to remember she left her daughter in the car... went back and found her passed on... panicked... did something as horrible as involuntary manslaughter -which is -cover it up... and has been spinning since.

I don't want this to be the case. It's just something that pops in my mind and makes me cringe. I love my children and have nightmares about forgetting them at home, where I am rushing to go back and save them... to wake feeling so ill and broken. You would think that someone to make such a horrible mistake/selfish decision would not want to live without their baby... hence report it and face up to it. but, not everyone reacts the way most would consider normal/right. I hope this is not even a possibility. As much as I hope she did not deliberately kill or sell her child. I hope Caylee is alive and well.

[swa]

Cindy made an interesting comment on Greta a few nights ago. She said something to the effect of, "If it was an accident -- she would have called 911."

Well -- to a point. If she had drugged her child or left her unattended . . . while she was on the computer -- she would have known IMMEDIATELY that it was going to get pinned on her.

That's what happened in my opinion. She died on her watch -- and it was a direct result of poor parenting. Casey couldn't deal with the ramifications of that (eventhough we are to believe that she was the perfect mother -- eventhough it sounds like Cindy was actually the mother)

[ketel0ne]

What evidence do we have of these supposed flurry of phone calls from Casey to her parents on the 16th? Just Fuhrman's assertion? If there is actual information, we should start a thread for it.

There is a Fuhrman thread.

[chrisg]

I rarely stand up for Cindy, but I think I would hold LE equally responsbility for this one, unless Casey's really derailed the beginning of the investigation that badly. If so the focus may have been too tight.

I don't see how LE is responsible for washing the pants. Not taking them immediately--yes--but I'm not sure how they're equally responsible for them being washed. And this is where the flip-flopping comes in. One of the reasons Cindy called the police was b/c the car smelled like a dead body. She then admittedly washed pants that she said had the same smell? It seems, IMO, that they (the gps) are torn between wanting to find their grandaughter and wanting to protect their daughter. And since all evidence points toward their daughter being responsible, this is indeed a problem/conflict of interest.

[beetrue]

Yes they would know the difference. There were also two different dogs that each "hit".

Two? I heard it was the same dog that hit the trunk, hit the yard. And that the other dog had no hits. Media focused that the 2nd dog had only been active for three years.

[swa]

Are we clear that the interior of the car smelled like death or maybe it was just the trunk? Maybe the pants just smelled like smoke and not dead pizza? Trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

The smell of a dead body would have penetrated every inch of that car. In fact -- that car is and will be undriveable unless they totally gut it.

[ketel0ne]

The only time they mentioned smelling smoke was when they explained why they threw out toys that were donated for Caylee.

Actual smoke smell was brought up today about 3 duffle bags of clothes that Cindy retrieved from tony's apt. She washed those as well.

[Chilly Willy]

The only time they mentioned smelling smoke was when they explained why they threw out toys that were donated for Caylee.

No, Cindy also said the 3 duffle bags full of Casey's clothing that she picked up at TonE's apartment also smelled of smoke.

I don't see anything suspicious about Cindy washing the pants that she found in the car. They smelled bad. She had no reason at all to believe that a crime may have been committed or that Casey had committed it. Yes, she said the car smelled like a dead body but I don't think it was until Casey admitted that Caylee was missing that Cindy realized it really could have been a dead body that stunk up the car.

[fixingtoburst]

I would be pretty certain that a police officer would know the smell of a decomposing body over the smell of rotting garbage. Maybe a rookie wouldn't but I doubt even that.

[MagnoliaMom]

~snip from beyond belief's post in #70
La Bella Vida, like in the movie?????????
Did anyone see that movie? Why was the child separated from the mother?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_vita_e_bella

that could add a whole new twist to things.

[fixingtoburst]

Actual smoke smell was brought up today about 3 duffle bags of clothes that Cindy retrieved from tony's apt. She washed those as well.

Did Casey smoke or her friends? If they did that would explain why her clothes reaked of smoke. Cigarette smoke is quite definitive too, IMO.

[txsvicki]

If the clothing had been left in the car LE would have taken it. Maybe Cindy was going through pockets trying to find phone numbers, addresses, anything to lead her to Caylee. But, if it stunk that bad, why not go through the purse and clothes and leave it all in the car for police. Cindy knew the stuff stunk like a dead body had been in the car.

[swa]

I would be pretty certain that a police officer would know the smell of a decomposing body over the smell of rotting garbage. Maybe a rookie wouldn't but I doubt even that.

Everything I have ever read is that you "never forget" the smell of a dead body. It doesn't smell like pizza or garbage.

[ketel0ne]

Cindy made an interesting comment on Greta a few nights ago. She said something to the effect of, "If it was an accident -- she would have called 911."

Well -- to a point. If she had drugged her child or left her unattended . . . while she was on the computer -- she would have known IMMEDIATELY that it was going to get pinned on her.

That's what happened in my opinion. She died on her watch -- and it was a direct result of poor parenting. Casey couldn't deal with the ramifications of that (eventhough we are to believe that she was the perfect mother -- eventhough it sounds like Cindy was actually the mother)

It seems that she may have made 12 plus in a timeframe consistent with an accident and no one answered the phone, my question is why. One could infer that Casey did reach out.

[panthera]

Two? I heard it was the same dog that hit the trunk, hit the yard. And that the other dog had no hits. Media focused that the 2nd dog had only been active for three years.
I'll go back and check but I understood it was two dogs both had a hit in two different places. I might be wrong though.

[kpass]

As per the search warrant, those pants smelled like the car.

Not like the 3 duffle bags of clothes that smelled like smoke.

Hmmmmmmm. smoke & missing gas cans :waitasec:

[fixingtoburst]

Everything I have ever read is that you "never forget" the smell of a dead body. It doesn't smell like pizza or garbage.

I bet Cindy can't get rid of the memory of that smell either.

[ketel0ne]

I don't see how LE is responsible for washing the pants. Not taking them immediately--yes--but I'm not sure how they're equally responsible for them being washed. And this is where the flip-flopping comes in. One of the reasons Cindy called the police was b/c the car smelled like a dead body. She then admittedly washed pants that she said had the same smell? It seems, IMO, that they (the gps) are torn between wanting to find their grandaughter and wanting to protect their daughter. And since all evidence points toward their daughter being responsible, this is indeed a problem/conflict of interest.

Cindy said today on the driveway she was cleared to wash it all.

[swa]

It seems that she may have made 12 plus in a timeframe consistent with an accident and no one answered the phone, my question is why. One could infer that Casey did reach out.

Was she reaching out to report an accident or to lie though? What if she was calling her mom to say that someone had kidnapped her? If my child was in trouble and needed medical attention, I would not call my mom and dad 12 times -- I would call 911 FIRST -- then call my mom and dad or try to get neighbors to assits.

[beetrue]

she had plenty of time

her clothes reaked

thats how she did it - in my opinion

aha! her clothes smelled because of the burning? could be. the car too.
If she didn't sell Caylee or leave her with someone unknown... I think the dates she gave were wrong too. I think the night at the clubs may have been the night an accidental death could have happened. I wrote what I worry may have happened -that is if all of this is the result of a horrible accident and cover up.

[panthera]

Actual smoke smell was brought up today about 3 duffle bags of clothes that Cindy retrieved from tony's apt. She washed those as well.
So, Tony smokes? Is smoking still allowed in clubs in Florida?

[txsvicki]

Cindy said today on the driveway she was cleared to wash it all.


Maybe she was cleared because after it's been taken out there's really no way to prove it had been there?

[JBean]

~snip from beyond belief's post in #70
La Bella Vida, like in the movie?????????
Did anyone see that movie? Why was the child separated from the mother?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_vita_e_bella

that could add a whole new twist to things.
It was an incredible movie about a family in the Nazi concentration camps. It is outstanding.

[chrisg]

Cindy said today on the driveway she was cleared to wash it all.

She did? I hadn't heard that.

[fixingtoburst]

Who would wear three duffel bags of clothing? You do the job in one sitting and then you get rid of the clothes. You don't change clothes.

[RR0004]

CO-OWNED/CO-SIGNED. So both.
Just curious...where did you find that?

[ketel0ne]

The smell of a dead body would have penetrated every inch of that car. In fact -- that car is and will be undriveable unless they totally gut it.

Yet George got it home without vomiting or stopping go through a carwash with the doors, trunk and windows open. hmmmm.

[Chilly Willy]

If the clothing had been left in the car LE would have taken it. Maybe Cindy was going through pockets trying to find phone numbers, addresses, anything to lead her to Caylee. But, if it stunk that bad, why not go through the purse and clothes and leave it all in the car for police. Cindy knew the stuff stunk like a dead body had been in the car.

They brought the stinky car home and Cindy decided to wash the stinky items. Why would she think, "Gee, I better leave these things alone in case for some reason I have to call 911 in a few days and these things might be needed as evidence?"

[CitizenKim]

Or someone (perhaps one of her LE tied guys) knew of the stolen identity of ZG right around that time, and figured it'd be easy to make it look like the person who stole the identity then went on to kidnap Caylee.

I think once Caylee was 'taken care of' after the accident or whatever, then Casey worked with SOMEONE to concoct her story.

I believe the plan was to make it seem lke it happened later...post the 24th (thus the phone call to JG where she had him hear Caylee...which slightly makes me think the "someone" is NOT JG and he was another person she used) and have it look like something happened to Casey and Caylee both (thus explaining the car and purse abandoned). I think they expected the car to be found sooner, people to panic, and Casey to turn up/be found having "escaped" but Caylee having been taken...pinning it on the person who had robbed ZG.

When that scenario didn't work, they had to adapt it a bit and not have Casey appear having escaped from this person...unless that's where Cindy says we'll see Casey as a hero, if Casey's story would go on to say that she fought this person, etc. and fought for her daughter, but they got away with Caylee and Casey escaped.

From the little her friends have said, they thought Caylee was with "the nanny"...none of them said the name. I think the name came later on. Pin it on the person who stole the identity, and now you've got an anonymous bad guy using someone else's identity. That'd stall LE first looking at all the ZG's before someone might then connect the dots and then have to find the thief.

And that could explain her distrust of local LE. What local LE person would believe one of their own gave the identity of the person who had the identity stolen over a girl who's claiming someone did?


OMG- my head is spinning but this theory is very interesting. Is Casey or anyone she hangs out w/intelligent enough to plan so elaborately and/or is anyone dedicated enough to Casey to go to these lengths for her?

I like that w/this theory there is the possibility that Caylee is still w/us. I'm going to have to noodle on this for a bit. I might need to revise my theory.

[ketel0ne]

Who would wear three duffel bags of clothing? You do the job in one sitting and then you get rid of the clothes. You don't change clothes.

She was at Tony/Amy/Ricardo's for a month.

[ketel0ne]

They brought the stinky car home and Cindy decided to wash the stinky items. Why would she think, "Gee, I better leave these things alone in case for some reason I have to call 911 in a few days and these things might be needed as evidence?"

She called 911 the first time roughly 4 hours later.

[LI_Mom]

So, Tony smokes? Is smoking still allowed in clubs in Florida?

The clothes could pick up the smoke smell from Tony's apt. or inside a car where her friends are smoking.

[Amster]

IMO, George had his "come to Jesus" moment when he met with the FBI. Lying to the Feds was not an option. Before the Greta interview, Cindy was denying that anything was stolen from their shed or a police report made.

[swa]

Yet George got it home without vomiting or stopping go through a carwash with the doors, trunk and windows open. hmmmm.

That's a good point. I'm sure thought when he got in it -- he was like, "WTF?"

I'm sure he made mention of the smell to Cindy immediately when he got the car home.

[fixingtoburst]

I don't see Casey as a get your hands dirty kind of girl. I don't see her risking getting caught burning a body. She's gonna dump the body and run. She's gotta be fresh and ready to party.

[ketel0ne]

She did? I hadn't heard that.

It's in the interview where she is asked about inconsistencies and then Lee pulls up and takes her by the arm and pulls her to the garage away from reporters.

[beetrue]

I am truly not upset or huffy about this. I do not need to chill. I am okay. I am sympathetic towards the Anthony's.

I do not have qualms with you. I am just saying, you can not prove that the Anthony's are liars based upon media. I suppose I should just say what I want to say without letting you know my intentions in saying it.


This is an antagonizing tone though. You did the same thing to me when you posted that 'you can't say someone is a liar unless you KNOW them' and I responded that I don't know Casey but she has been proven to be a liar. You then said to take the S off when I never once called her family members liars. Chill out. People have a right to express their opinions.

And while Cindy and George intially told the police that they felt Casey was witholding information--this is in the police report and the 911 call--they now are expresssing no doubt whatsoever in their daughter's colorful and ludicrous tale of a kidnapping to the extent of being antagonistic toward LE in the media.

I wouldn't call this a lie--nor have I done so--but it is certainly a different position than they took earlier w/ LE and while I do have sympathy and compassion for them--unlike Casey--I can certainly understand why people are frustrated w/ Cindy and George Anthony.

[fixingtoburst]

She was at Tony/Amy/Ricardo's for a month.

Right, which means the smokey clothes are probably more likely to be related to someone smoking in the house or when she goes out rather than from her burning a body. Because no one wears more than one outfit to burn a body.

[pang223]

I don't see Casey as a get your hands dirty kind of girl. I don't see her risking getting caught burning a body. She's gonna dump the body and run. She's gotta be fresh and ready to party.

Who can understand ANYTHING this girl does?

[panthera]

The clothes could pick up the smoke smell from Tony's apt. or inside a car where her friends are smoking.
Yes, exactly my thoughts. Nothing necessarily sinister!

[chrisg]

She was at Tony/Amy/Ricardo's for a month.

absolut, I believe I read somewhere that Ricardo is Amy's bf. Have you heard that as well and, if so, do they not live together? I was trying to piece together whether Casey was at 3 places during that month or 2. TIA.

[RR0004]

Most cars these days have those little safety things where if you're accidentally locked in the trunk you can escape through the back seat. So therefore it would be probable that the whole car could smell.

Oh and what peculiar language to use anyway. I think her saying the car "smelled like a dead body" was probably the give away.
Or saying the pants smelled like the car.

[pang223]

This case just has me sick to my stomach. My daughter is just one month younger than Caylee. We are all just so desperate for answers aren't we? But I'm not positive we'll ever find a body. After all...her dad was a cop.
I want some information on all the money. In a one month time frame, she went through $1,000 of her friend Amy's $$. Plus we know she stole one of her parents credit or bank cards. She's supposedly went through (and I apologize if the next amount is wrong but I haven't seen anything with a definitive amount, those news stations are so precise aren't they?) around $4,500 on that stolen card.
I'm anxious to hear what she's purchased to further solidify the timeline. Did she buy anything at all for a live little Caylee? Toys? Or something more sinister like large rolls of plastic and gallons of bleach? Or was she making atm cash advance withdrawls? I want this info because when you see what she was buying and where, the police will hopefully be able to recover video footage from (store/mall/parking lot etc.) security cameras. If they see the location and time of purchase they should be able to find footage of Casey's little shopping sprees. Including whether or not she had a child with her and her demeanor in the stores. Certainly some footage of mom casually shopping for bar attire while on a break from her frantic search for her abducted toddler and of course when she wasn't at her fictitious job would be futher damaging evidence to lock a jury into a guilty vote if forced into a trial without body.

[swa]

On a side note.. who puts a "bra" on their car still? They always show the Pontiac and it has a bra on it.

For someone so "trendy" like Casey thought she was -- I would think she would have known this went out in the 90's.

[ketel0ne]

Right, which means the smokey clothes are probably more likely to be related to someone smoking in the house or when she goes out rather than from her burning a body. Because no one wears more than one outfit to burn a body.

They were also not in the car for any length of time apparently because they were retreived from Tony's not the car.

The pants on the back floor of the car on the other hand could not have been a treat to pick up either.

[chicoliving]

No mention of Caylee's clothes?

[swa]

This case just has me sick to my stomach. My daughter is just one month younger than Caylee. We are all just so desperate for answers aren't we? But I'm not positive we'll ever find a body. After all...her dad was a cop.
I want some information on all the money. In a one month time frame, she went through $1,000 of her friend Amy's $$. Plus we know she stole one of her parents credit or bank cards. She's supposedly went through (and I apologize if the next amount is wrong but I haven't seen anything with a definitive amount, those news stations are so precise aren't they?) around $4,500 on that stolen card.
I'm anxious to hear what she's purchased to further solidify the timeline. Did she buy anything at all for a live little Caylee? Toys? Or something more sinister like large rolls of plastic and gallons of bleach? Or was she making atm cash advance withdrawls? I want this info because when you see what she was buying and where, the police will hopefully be able to recover video footage from (store/mall/parking lot etc.) security cameras. If they see the location and time of purchase they should be able to find footage of Casey's little shopping sprees. Including whether or not she had a child with her and her demeanor in the stores. Certainly some footage of mom casually shopping for bar attire while on a break from her frantic search for her abducted toddler and of course when she wasn't at her fictitious job would be futher damaging evidence to lock a jury into a guilty vote if forced into a trial without body.

Great point about the money. If she made all of her purchases on a credit card during this month -- they would be able to get a list of items she purchased. If there were no baby related items -- again -- that would be a huge red flag.

I'm guessing she made cash withdrawls / advances

[beetrue]

Beetrue--I did answer-wasn't sure you saw it.

Because when he was telling everyone that a neighbor took the gas cans and it was a non issue, it was all worked out--that was a lie. He knew the same day Casey took the gas cans. It wasn't until later that he admitted that Casey took them.

ah! thank you for explaining that to me. I am sorry I made you explain and questioned you, but glad you answered.

[Chilly Willy]

She called 911 the first time roughly 4 hours later.
Thank you. So they brought the car home and Cindy washed the pants, actually I believe she said she was washing some other things so she threw the pants in with them. A few hours later she finally gets together with Casey and learns that Caylee is missing. I see nothing sinister in Cindy's actions. It's not like she knew all heck was about to break loose and that the pants would be evidence.

[panthera]

No mention of Caylee's clothes?
I noticed that too.

[MnkeyBznes]

No mention of Caylee's clothes?

I have wondered the same thing. We have heard about Casey's clothes but where is Caylee's stuff. If you were dropping her at the "nanny" you would not take all of her things.

[ketel0ne]

absolut, I believe I read somewhere that Ricardo is Amy's bf. Have you heard that as well and, if so, do they not live together? I was trying to piece together whether Casey was at 3 places during that month or 2. TIA.

I have hear all that as well. I only have a general timeline of when Amy-ricardo were in the same place, when amy, casey, ricardo were and when Casey and tony were together. It is very vague. For instance I do not know for sure where Casey was the night of June 16th, 17th, 18th, or 19th. More importantly in some ways is where was the Pontiac that same week and leading up to the 27th.

To summarize I really think Casey was only at 2 places A&R's and Tony's.

[ketel0ne]

I have wondered the same thing. We have heard about Casey's clothes but where is Caylee's stuff. If you were dropping her at the "nanny" you would not take all of her things.

I think one day the backpack and maybe the sunglasses will turn up.

[beetrue]

Hi Beetrue.George originally filed a report for the gas cans not knowing who stole them. Later that day he found them in Casey's trunk and realized that she took them. She tried to keep him from seeing them in her trunk. When he was asked about his police report early on, he said a neighbor took the cans. IMO, he said that because he did not think they had anything to do with anything and his daughter was already being persecuted and he didn't want to have to say to the public that she also stole his gas cans. but once he came to realize that they possibly significant, he told authorities what happened. Not right but he did correct himself and own up to his lie.
IMO, he should have been honest, but I see this as aberrent behavior on his part and he has been consistently helpful and truthful throughout. I believe him to be an honest individual whose family is falling apart because of his daughter. He is doing what he can, but it will not be enough and I think it will be a long time before this family can heal.

Jbean, thank you for the detailed explanation. I just read Gigi's. I knew of the first half, Casey hiding the gas cans and everything... but not that George did not correct the information immediately. I thought the cans went missing and were returned June 24th - I do not know why that date is in my mind - and they did not know Caylee was missing until july 16th.

Such a nightmare, all of this. I can't help but feel sympathetic to the family.

[ketel0ne]

Thank you. So they brought the car home and Cindy washed the pants, actually I believe she said she was washing some other things so she threw the pants in with them. A few hours later she finally gets together with Casey and learns that Caylee is missing. I see nothing sinister in Cindy's actions. It's not like she knew all heck was about to break loose and that the pants would be evidence.

When she washed those pants and with what other clothes gets kinda blurry.

After Cindy found Amy's number went on the Casey hunt and then the police station and finally the 911 calls. Not sure when there was time for a load of wash then. But oh heck, we didn't even have a correct missing date for a week, so why does this detail matter right? :)

[fixingtoburst]

IMO all of Casey's actions up to this point speak of a woman that murdered her child. Not someone that accidentally killed her daughter. Not someone that had her child abducted. No one who accidentally killed their child or knew their child had been abducted would behave the way Casey Anthony has. They would have been racked with grief and unable to go hangout with friends and party. Period.

[panthera]

Jbean, thank you for the detailed explanation. I just read Gigi's. I knew of the first half, Casey hiding the gas cans and everything... but not that George did not correct the information immediately. I thought the cans went missing and were returned June 24th - I do not know why that date is in my mind - and they did not know Caylee was missing until july 16th.

Such a nightmare, all of this. I can't help but feel sympathetic to the family.
I was wondering too, when George said he confronted Casey on the 24th about the gas cans, did he ask where Caylee was? If so what was her answer? By that time, neither he or Cindy had seen Caylee for over a week.

[RR0004]

Cindy made an interesting comment on Greta a few nights ago. She said something to the effect of, "If it was an accident -- she would have called 911."

She also went on to say that if it was an accident she would have called her (Cindy) because that's who she always called (ex: an ear infection). Cindy is a nurse afterall. So now, here is where Cindy's line of thinking falls apart if she truly believes her daughter's tale about the nanny. If Cindy would be the first person she'd call if something happened to Caylee such as an accident...then why wouldn't Cindy also be the first person she'd call if someone stole Caylee? I have trouble reconciling that.

[ketel0ne]

Great point about the money. If she made all of her purchases on a credit card during this month -- they would be able to get a list of items she purchased. If there were no baby related items -- again -- that would be a huge red flag.

I'm guessing she made cash withdrawls / advances

Not sure why, Caylee has been gone for the whole time no matter what the real reason is. Casey had no need to buy for Caylee.

[txsvicki]

They were also not in the car for any length of time apparently because they were retreived from Tony's not the car.

The pants on the back floor of the car on the other hand could not have been a treat to pick up either.

Hadn't police already been to Tony's and looked around? Maybe they had already looked at the clothes that were kept there.

[ketel0ne]

Cindy made an interesting comment on Greta a few nights ago. She said something to the effect of, "If it was an accident -- she would have called 911."

She also went on to say that if it was an accident she would have called her (Cindy) because that's who she always called (ex: an ear infection). Cindy is a nurse afterall. So now, here is where Cindy's line of thinking falls apart if she truly believes her daughter's tale about the nanny. If Cindy would be the first person she'd call if something happened to Caylee such as an accident...then why wouldn't Cindy also be the first person she'd call if someone stole Caylee? I have trouble reconciling that.

And Casey did call her, and a lot apparently on June 16th. Now why didn't Cindy answer?

[CitizenKim]

I'm curious to know more about Amy as well. She was probably the person closest to and most often around Casey (except maybe Tony?).

Maybe we're not hearing from her bc she has fessed up w/some incriminating info about Casey/Caylee. Maybe that's why LE is soo confident that there's no need for a sketch or Amber Alert...that and the smell of dead body.

[chrisg]

I have hear all that as well. I only have a general timeline of when Amy-ricardo were in the same place, when amy, casey, ricardo were and when Casey and tony were together. It is very vague. For instance I do not know for sure where Casey was the night of June 16th, 17th, 18th, or 19th. More importantly in some ways is where was the Pontiac that same week and leading up to the 27th.

To summarize I really think Casey was only at 2 places A&R's and Tony's.

Thanks for this info. Do you feel then, that Casey's whereabouts can be explained from 6/20 onward but just not for those four nights/days from 6/16-6/19?

[RR0004]

Actual smoke smell was brought up today about 3 duffle bags of clothes that Cindy retrieved from tony's apt. She washed those as well.
Can you provide a link for that? I wondered about that from the time casey was discussing the missing cell phones. When did Cindy pick up those bags? Had they already been cleared by LE?

[panthera]

IMO all of Casey's actions up to this point speak of a woman that murdered her child. Not someone that accidentally killed her daughter. Not someone that had her child abducted. No one who accidentally killed their child or knew their child had been abducted would behave the way Casey Anthony has. They would have been racked with grief and unable to go hangout with friends and party. Period.
I do agree about her behavior being like someone who was happy her child was finally gone and she could hang out with friends, party and be a single person with not a worry in the world. Many times a toddler will drown in a swimming pool (as an example) and it isn't the mother's first reaction to hide the accident and go party for a month until her own mother finds out the little child is missing. Casey's behavior looks to me like that of a very cold-hearted person. MOO

[RR0004]

I don't see how LE is responsible for washing the pants. Not taking them immediately--yes--but I'm not sure how they're equally responsible for them being washed. And this is where the flip-flopping comes in. One of the reasons Cindy called the police was b/c the car smelled like a dead body. She then admittedly washed pants that she said had the same smell? It seems, IMO, that they (the gps) are torn between wanting to find their grandaughter and wanting to protect their daughter. And since all evidence points toward their daughter being responsible, this is indeed a problem/conflict of interest.
...and how would they know to take them if they'd already been removed from the car? I hope Cindy would have told them immediately when they came and questioned the family.

[panthera]

And Casey did call her, and a lot apparently on June 16th. Now why didn't Cindy answer?
Maybe she was at work? What I'm not clear on is if any voicemails were left on any of the calls?

[chrisg]

And Casey did call her, and a lot apparently on June 16th. Now why didn't Cindy answer?

I feel these calls are significant as well. IIRC, Mark Fuhrman said there were a half dozen calls to George first, then Cindy and then to two other people that afternoon (6/16) and then another series of unanswered calls a few hours later which seems to indicate that they did not even call her back in those few hours between the two series of calls?

[ketel0ne]

Hadn't police already been to Tony's and looked around? Maybe they had already looked at the clothes that were kept there.

Cindy got the clothes before the cops went to Tony's. she got the clothes when she picked up Casey. Late afternoon July 15th.

[ketel0ne]

I feel these calls are significant as well. IIRC, Mark Fuhrman said there were a half dozen calls to George first, then Cindy and then to two other people that afternoon (6/16) and then another series of unanswered calls a few hours later which seems to indicate that they did not even call her back in those few hours between the two series of calls?

Again why not, and what actions, conversations precipitated this in the 24-36 hours beforehand.

[pang223]

Not sure why, Caylee has been gone for the whole no matter what the real reason is. Casey had no need to buy for Caylee.

Because Casey moved in with Tony earlier in June. If the phone call activity is correct, the purchases between whatever date she moved in with him and the 16th (if cell records are indicating what Furman is implying), I'd like to see what she was blowing the money on from the time she stole the card until she was caught. And mostly because I want to see that security camera footage in the stores. Phone records and written documents are only so powerful for a juror. It's audio recordings and video footage that leave a better imprint. Harder to deny a visual. I read the transcripts of cindy's 911 calls, but hearing them was much more powerful.

[ketel0ne]

Maybe she was at work? What I'm not clear on is if any voicemails were left on any of the calls?

Maybe.

[ketel0ne]

Because Casey moved in with Tony earlier in June. If the phone call activity is correct, the purchases between whatever date she moved in with him and the 16th (if cell records are indicating what Furman is implying), I'd like to see what she was blowing the money on from the time she stole the card until she was caught. And mostly because I want to see that security camera footage in the stores. Phone records and written documents are only so powerful for a juror. It's audio recordings and video footage that leave a better imprint. Harder to deny a visual. I read the transcripts of cindy's 911 calls, but hearing them was much more powerful.

According to Cindy they never moved out of her house.

According to tony's friend and temp roommated Casey did not start staying with them until the last 2 weeks of June.

[panthera]

Maybe.
Just trying to make some sense of this! I can't figure out neither George or Cindy calling her back. I'd think both of them would have her programmed into their phone as "Casey" and not just a phone number they wouldn't recognize who was calling, or 'private' or 'withheld'. I know I don't necessarily answer or return phone calls I don't recognize the number.

[ketel0ne]

...and how would they know to take them if they'd already been removed from the car? I hope Cindy would have told them immediately when they came and questioned the family.

and this is the rub as they say.

[ketel0ne]

I can't figure out neither George or Cindy calling her back. I'd think both of them would have her programmed into their phone as "Casey" and not just a phone number they wouldn't recognize who was calling. I know I don't necessarily answer or return phone calls I don't recognize the number.

What changed in the family dynamic June 15th and 16th? It was the same phone cindy vm'd, texted, and talked to Casey on for the 31 days she was gone. Except the 16th?

[CitizenKim]

Wow- I just heard that call from Casey to Lee asking for her attorney.

I think maybe she's ready to confess. Listening to that call you can hear her rushing through saying...obviously I love you guys... but I only have a minute. That call was ALL business. Usually her tone changes w/him and you can hear the pleading for approval in her voice--that was absent here and she was just feeling very uncomfortable talking to him.

That's why she didn't want to see him today either- he grills her! Let's hope she's ready to come clean- I'm sure it will still be a tall tale (w/her as the victim/hero?) but I just need to know!

[ketel0ne]

Wow- I just heard that call from Casey to Lee asking for her attorney.

I think maybe she's ready to confess. Listening to that call you can hear her rushing through saying...obviously I love you guys... but I only have a minute. That call was ALL business. Usually her tone changes w/him and you can hear the pleading for approval in her voice--that was absent here and she was just feeling very uncomfortable talking to him.

That's why she didn't want to see him today either- he grills her! Let's hope she's ready to come clean- I'm sure it will still be a tall tale (w/her as the victim/hero?) but I just need to know!

That call is from aug 2nd, she saw her dad the next day.

[panthera]

What changed in the family dynamic June 15th and 16th?
I haven't a clue. And George just said this week that he saw both Casey & Caylee leave the house the afternoon of the 16th, just before 1pm, while he was watching tv and everything seemed normal. Yet a few hours later no one returns Casey's repeated phone calls? :confused: I might just be curious why she was calling all those times and pick up the phone just in case it was about Caylee.

[CitizenKim]

oh thanks -:blushing:

Colossal bummer! I just want her to tell the truth!

That call is from aug 2nd, she saw her dad the next day.

[blondietx]

...and how would they know to take them if they'd already been removed from the car? I hope Cindy would have told them immediately when they came and questioned the family.

She did not, apparently. In an interview on 8/4, it was discovered that she had removed them and washed them prior to calling LE. Search warrant, pg7.

[passin_through]

What changed in the family dynamic June 15th and 16th?

Hadn't Casey been staying with Tony early June until June 13th (what Tony's roomate had said, Casey stayed until the 13th) Anyhow, Cindy was prob'ly annoyed by this and that caused some tension. Then, didn't George just start a new job? I've mostly only read that here...if so did this mean that Casey now couldn't pawn Caylee off on her father and spend all her days with Tony? Casey was losing some freedom? he11s bells I don't know!

[RR0004]

And Casey did call her, and a lot apparently on June 16th. Now why didn't Cindy answer?
I think because they kicked her out of the house for some reason or threatened to do so...it still goes back to something happening the night of the 15th. I think there was a huge fight. I think they were ignoring her for a reason. I don't think Casey was calling to tell her something about Casey...I think she wanted to have the last word.

[chrisg]

Just trying to make some sense of this! I can't figure out neither George or Cindy calling her back. I'd think both of them would have her programmed into their phone as "Casey" and not just a phone number they wouldn't recognize who was calling, or 'private' or 'withheld'. I know I don't necessarily answer or return phone calls I don't recognize the number.

Exactly, even if she didn't leave a message the number--and presumably her name--would come up on the phone record. Unless Cindy and George don't have cell phones? I know some older people don't in which case she would be calling them at work which might not record the phone number. Do we know if they have cell phones? My guess would be that even if George doesn't, Cindy does.

[ketel0ne]

Exactly, even if she didn't leave a message the number--and presumably her name--would come up on the phone record. Unless Cindy and George don't have cell phones? I know some older people don't in which case she would be calling them at work which might not record the phone number. Do we know if they have cell phones? My guess would be that even if George doesn't, Cindy does.

they both do.

[blondietx]

I think because they kicked her out of the house for some reason or threatened to do so...it still goes back to something happening the night of the 15th. I think there was a huge fight. I think they were ignoring her for a reason. I don't think Casey was calling to tell her something about Casey...I think she wanted to have the last word.

I semi-agree. I think there was definitely some issues going on, thus no one answering her calls. However, I think she was calling to check on their whereabouts cause she was at the house after doing whatever it is that she did to that poor baby. JMHO.

[RR0004]

Cindy got the clothes before the cops went to Tony's. she got the clothes when she picked up Casey. Late afternoon July 15th.
Then why did Casey refer to her things being in a central area at Tony's. Were these other bags? And how did Casey and Caylee leave the house with just a backpack on the 16th? There are those missing days!!

[JBean]

She did not, apparently. In an interview on 8/4, it was discovered that she had removed them and washed them prior to calling LE. Search warrant, pg7.
It was discovered because she explained to them what she had done.

[Amster]

Cindy was ranting about Caseys purse being left in the car during early interviews....has she mentioned it lately? She says she took slacks, boots and shoes out of the car. What about the purse?

Was there anything of Caylees in the car? Besides her carseat?

[passin_through]

Do we know if they have cell phones? My guess would be that even if George doesn't, Cindy does.
Cindy was talking on a cell phone today...guessing it's one she's had a bit. Hear it go off in interviews a good bit as well. Plus Cindy talks about texting with Casey during her mini-vacation.

[panthera]

Exactly, even if she didn't leave a message the number--and presumably her name--would come up on the phone record. Unless Cindy and George don't have cell phones? I know some older people don't in which case she would be calling them at work which might not record the phone number. Do we know if they have cell phones? My guess would be that even if George doesn't, Cindy does.
George & Cindy aren't older people imo! :D I'd bet they both have cell phones, or home phone with voicemail and maybe caller ID. I was always thinking that Casey called their cell phones, since there are calls to George and then calls to Cindy. I could see Cindy not being able to return the calls immediately if she works in a hospital though.

[blondietx]

It was discovered because she explained to them what she had done.

Right - 3 weeks later?!?! And again...why would this discussion NOT have come up when they did the search of the car on 7/17?? NOT buying it, sorry!

[passin_through]

amster..."many of Caylee's toys" per a news clip...can get it if you need.

[panthera]

I semi-agree. I think there was definitely some issues going on, thus no one answering her calls. However, I think she was calling to check on their whereabouts cause she was at the house after doing whatever it is that she did to that poor baby. JMHO.
According to George, Casey was supposed to be going to work when she left the house around 1pm on the 16th and he also was going to work later that day (in the interview at their house with Greta this week). So maybe after George went to work but before Cindy came home, Casey returned to the house with Caylee and Caylee drowned in the pool? What time would Cindy normally get home from work? It seems like a tight timeline if Cindy worked day shifts.

[ketel0ne]

Then why did Casey refer to her things being in a central area at Tony's. Were these other bags? And how did Casey and Caylee leave the house with just a backpack on the 16th? There are those missing days!!

I believe the centralized comment was about Lee looking for her Blackjack and one of the places it could be, or with the stuff that was at Tony's.

[chrisg]

It was discovered because she explained to them what she had done.

Most likely as a result of their questioning. Thanks BlondieTx for posting that. I do remember reading it in there now and it may have indeed been the cause for the search--to get other evidence before it was washed.

[passin_through]

I often wondered if Casey had backed the car up to the garage to load packed bags, like the stuff that was at Tony's.

[blondietx]

According to George, Casey was supposed to be going to work when she left the house around 1pm on the 16th and he also was going to work later that day (in the interview at their house with Greta this week). So maybe after George went to work but before Cindy came home, Casey returned to the house with Caylee and Caylee drowned in the pool? What time would Cindy normally get home from work? It seems like a tight timeline if Cindy worked day shifts.

Could be? Maybe she works 7-7? Not unheard of for a nurse. Or if she's in an office 8-5 or 9-5. With Cindy's travel time home, she could've had from 2ish to 5:30 or even later. Calls started at 3 - making sure George had left for work? Then making sure Cindy was still at work? Not sure, just a guess. I do however think she often came back to the house after pretending to go to work.

[RR0004]

When she washed those pants and with what other clothes gets kinda blurry.

After Cindy found Amy's number went on the Casey hunt and then the police station and finally the 911 calls. Not sure when there was time for a load of wash then. But oh heck, we didn't even have a correct missing date for a week, so why does this detail matter right? :)
I have the exact same problem with that.

[JBean]

Right - 3 weeks later?!?! And again...why would this discussion NOT have come up when they did the search of the car on 7/17?? NOT buying it, sorry!No apology necessary.
I guess we have to ask LE how it went down. They have referred to Cindy as open and cooperative.

[blondietx]

Most likely as a result of their questioning. Thanks BlondieTx for posting that. I do remember reading it in there now and it may have indeed been the cause for the search--to get other evidence before it was washed.

That's exactly what it was. Otherwise, they wouldn't have used the word discovered. It would have been that she informed them!! This has stuck with me. No one can convince me otherwise. Not to mention if a car smells like death, I wouldn't touch a THING in it until it has been investigated! She knew exactly what she was doing!

[JBean]

Most likely as a result of their questioning. Thanks BlondieTx for posting that. I do remember reading it in there now and it may have indeed been the cause for the search--to get other evidence before it was washed.Undoubtedly due to questioning, per the report.

[blondietx]

No apology necessary.
I guess we have to ask LE how it went down. They have referred to Cindy as open and cooperative.

I think they are just being polite.

[panthera]

Could be? Maybe she works 7-7? Not unheard of for a nurse. Or if she's in an office 8-5 or 9-5. With Cindy's travel time home, she could've had from 2ish to 5:30 or even later. Calls started at 3 - making sure George had left for work? Then making sure Cindy was still at work? Not sure, just a guess. I do however think she often came back to the house after pretending to go to work.
Oh I agree, it's possible since we know she didn't have a job to go to. I was thinking of Cindy working a 7am-3:30pm shift but if she did work later that would give Casey some time at the house before anyone got back.

Well, it's really late, so I'll say goodnight! Happy Birthday Caylee, wherever you are! :wave:

[imnotheonlyone]

Can you erase myspace messages? Maybe she did a little cleaning after everything broke?

Oh, definitely. Casey, Amy, and JP have all done so - JP is becoming someone I'd like to learn alot more about.....
Not ONLY is he Ricardo's roommate, he is a News Editor for WFTV Channel 9 in Orlando - he has several comments from Casey on his MySpace, it's obvious they were friends (or at the least, party buddies).... doesn't HE have anything to say about little missing Caylee???? JP's photo on his personal website http://web.mac.com/jpchatt/JP/About_Me.html in the white shirt looks ALOT like lil' Miss Caylee to me!

[RR0004]

It was discovered because she explained to them what she had done.
But not on the 15th.

[passin_through]

don't know if this helps but to try and have all sides there, I'm posting some *snips*

I don't know. I mean, they had receipts that could have traced my daughter's last actions for the last month. They didn't want them. They didn't even want to go through any of her personal things. It's too late now, guys. I've already put her stuff away. So you know, I let it sit out in her bedroom for the last week-and-a-half, and no one's wanted to comb through any of the stuff that we took from the apartment
She has receipts from going to the grocery story, from going shopping, from doing whatever. They could have went back at the stores to see if Caylee was with her. They could have done a whole lot of things. They haven't -- you know, they didn't. So it's too late now to go back. I don't have those anymore.
*snip*
And I'm -- frankly, I'm not holding any more stuff for them. Anything I have I'm going to give to whoever I have, a private investigator, her attorney or whatever that acts like they care about my granddaughter. And I'm frustrated. I just want one of them from the sheriff's department to call me and give me some respect, give my husband some respect, and give us a little update
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,393262,00.html

[RR0004]

Oh I agree, it's possible since we know she didn't have a job to go to. I was thinking of Cindy working a 7am-3:30pm shift but if she did work later that would give Casey some time at the house before anyone got back.

Well, it's really late, so I'll say goodnight! Happy Birthday Caylee, wherever you are! :wave:
Goodnight Panthera!

[Amster]

amster..."many of Caylee's toys" per a news clip...can get it if you need.

Thanks...I didn't know that! So, Cindy removes pants, shoes and boots of Caseys and not Caylees toys?? I don't understand that. :confused:

[chrisg]

First of all, I wrote, "One should watch whom they call liars; especially when they have never met the people they have called names." without quoting anyone. However, i was responding to the comment of, "because they are liars". Do you have two screen names here? Because you are picking a fight with me over a statement I made -NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS YOU.

Exactly. I didn't even agree w/ that other poster but you jumped all over me. I am addressing a tone issue and feel that everyone has a right to their own opinion w/out being jumped all over by other posters.

[blondietx]

But not on the 15th.

Right. Or the 16th, or the 17th...while they were searching the car. Surely, she would have recognized it as pertinent information at that point?

[JBean]

I think they are just being polite.
That is nice of them lol. They have said she freely proovides information, has made herself available for additonal interviews and helpful in providing information.

If you think about it, she didn't have to offer any information about the boots and the pants, etc. If she was hiding info she probably wouldn't have volunteered the information at all.

[RR0004]

don't know if this helps but to try and have all sides there, I'm posting some *snips*

I don't know. I mean, they had receipts that could have traced my daughter's last actions for the last month. They didn't want them. They didn't even want to go through any of her personal things. It's too late now, guys. I've already put her stuff away. So you know, I let it sit out in her bedroom for the last week-and-a-half, and no one's wanted to comb through any of the stuff that we took from the apartment
She has receipts from going to the grocery story, from going shopping, from doing whatever. They could have went back at the stores to see if Caylee was with her. They could have done a whole lot of things. They haven't -- you know, they didn't. So it's too late now to go back. I don't have those anymore.
*snip*
And I'm -- frankly, I'm not holding any more stuff for them. Anything I have I'm going to give to whoever I have, a private investigator, her attorney or whatever that acts like they care about my granddaughter. And I'm frustrated. I just want one of them from the sheriff's department to call me and give me some respect, give my husband some respect, and give us a little update
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,393262,00.html
Thanks. I remember hearing about the receipts but thought it was only 2 weeks worth.

[blondietx]

Snip...

I don't know. I mean, they had receipts that could have traced my daughter's last actions for the last month. They didn't want them. They didn't even want to go through any of her personal things. *snip*
And I'm -- frankly, I'm not holding any more stuff for them.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,393262,00.html

Maybe they weren't interested in the receipts? What does that mean?

[beetrue]

Can you erase myspace messages? Maybe she did a little cleaning after everything broke?


you can delete anything you want on your own myspace profile. you can also change your settings at anytime. so, say her myspace originally allowed anyone to comment... and now, she does not want comments abled without prior consent... she can change her privacy settings and make it so she has to read and approve comments before they are posted. she can chose to read them, leave them, and not deny or approve... or to deny/approve. at the top right of "comments" you can click 'view all/delete comments'.

also, you delete your own comments on anyone's myspace page... but not your comment on their blog.

[cheko1]

it is extremely dangerous and would take a lot of time. Most likely, trying to do so would cause so many toxins and mess that the person trying to do so would not be able to stay there. Maybe that is why someone would say it to be impossible.

My brother got over 98% of his body burnt from gasoline he had 3rd & 4th degree burns from a accident / he lived 27 days & died.

Burnt flesh is a horrid smell. Like the smell of death it is so awful that it gags you & you'd never forget the smell as long as you live. Its a horrid death.

Remains can be burnt up / I've heard of several cases where this has happened a recent case it happened was Steve Avery killed Teresa Halbach in Wi another case was Katie Poier?? ms in Mn

[JBean]

But not on the 15th.
Maybe they didn't ask , nor did it occur to her. I have no idea. But if she was trying to conceal information, why volunteer the pants and boots at all?
I am pretty sure they didn't beat the information out of her lol.

[passin_through]

Amster, some here have wondered if the *smoke filled toys* that were donated and pitched by the Anthony family were actually those toys. I don't know but makes one wonder.

[ketel0ne]

Cindy and George have cooperated, if Casey lived on her own, her own car etc. and the same set of circumstances applied this case would be more of a nightmare for investigators.

[RR0004]

I often wondered if Casey had backed the car up to the garage to load packed bags, like the stuff that was at Tony's.
Where does the shovel fit into that?

[MnkeyBznes]

I saw this on another site don't know who made this site but it is a pic of JP and one of Caylee side by side, quite a resemblance.

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s336/starshineinca/caylee.jpg

[RR0004]

you can delete anything you want on your own myspace profile. you can also change your settings at anytime. so, say her myspace originally allowed anyone to comment... and now, she does not want comments abled without prior consent... she can change her privacy settings and make it so she has to read and approve comments before they are posted. she can chose to read them, leave them, and not deny or approve... or to deny/approve. at the top right of "comments" you can click 'view all/delete comments'.
Thanks...I have very little knowledge of MySpace or Facebook.

[cheko1]

I don't know how any person could burn their loved one's body. Especially their baby's.

It would take a very sick demented person to do that.
Casey could very well of done that. She never wanted anyone to ever know what happened to Caylee. So she may of gotten rid of her once & for all......thinking she did the perfect crime.

[Chilly Willy]

Maybe they didn't ask , nor did it occur to her. I have no idea. But if she was trying to conceal information, why volunteer the pants and boots at all?
I am pretty sure they didn't beat the information out of her lol.

I believe I read here earlier today that Cindy said she offered the information about washing the pants to LE the first night, and they weren't interested. It wouldn't be surprising that LE didn't include that in their initial report if they didn't seem to find it important.

[beetrue]

Was Steve Avery the man that burned the woman on a small bbq on his balcony? I remember the story of the man that did that. The neighbours complained of the stench and said he was doing it for days! ewwwwwwww!

My brother got over 98% of his body burnt from gasoline he had 3rd & 4th degree burns from a accident / he lived 27 days & died.

Burnt flesh is a horrid smell. Like the smell of death it is so awful that it gags you & you'd never forget the smell as long as you live. Its a horrid death.

Remains can be burnt up / I've heard of several cases where this has happened a recent case it happened was Steve Avery killed Teresa Halbach in Wi another case was Katie Poier?? ms in Mn

[imnotheonlyone]

I saw this on another site don't know who made this site but it is a pic of JP and one of Caylee side by side, quite a resemblance.

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s336/starshineinca/caylee.jpg


AMAZING resemblance!

[JBean]

Do any of you happen to know offhand if the Caylee sighting by friends on 7-12 was ever confirmed or not? It was at a mall or something and she was with persons unknown. Did we ever find out who she was with and what that was about?

[racegirl72]

Maybe they didn't ask , nor did it occur to her. I have no idea. But if she was trying to conceal information, why volunteer the pants and boots at all?
I am pretty sure they didn't beat the information out of her lol.

Does anyone know if dna of blood or bodily fluids will show up on the clothes now that they've been washed? And who knows, maybe they've been washed MULTIPLE times...??

[RR0004]

Maybe they didn't ask , nor did it occur to her. I have no idea. But if she was trying to conceal information, why volunteer the pants and boots at all?
I am pretty sure they didn't beat the information out of her lol.
I think ,and yes it's only my opinion, that she withheld the information because she was scared...truly scared.

[blondietx]

That is nice of them lol. They have said she freely proovides information, has made herself available for additonal interviews and helpful in providing information.

If you think about it, she didn't have to offer any information about the boots and the pants, etc. If she was hiding info she probably wouldn't have volunteered the information at all.

I think so. After all, she is all they've got. Casey sure isn't talking!! She may be freely providing information once push comes to shove on some issues. She is certainly NOT forthcoming with all information. There is a difference. It was discovered, she didn't volunteer it! Don't forget the feds got involved shortly before this 8/4 interview. I think it was 7/31 or so. Coincidence that this info was discovered shortly thereafter? Not a chance!

[MnkeyBznes]

AMAZING resemblance!


nose and mouth especially

[chrisg]

My brother got over 98% of his body burnt from gasoline he had 3rd & 4th degree burns from a accident / he lived 27 days & died.

Cheko1, I am so sorry for your loss.

[KR2tonenow]

It would take a very sick demented person to do that.
Casey could very well of done that. She never wanted anyone to ever know what happened to Caylee. So she may of gotten rid of her once & for all......thinking she did the perfect crime.

Casey strikes me as a heartless sociopath. Drinking and hanging with friends days later with a huge smile on her face.

[blondietx]

I believe I read here earlier today that Cindy said she offered the information about washing the pants to LE the first night, and they weren't interested. It wouldn't be surprising that LE didn't include that in their initial report if they didn't seem to find it important.


Well, I would love to see that. Truly, I would. That may just change my mind on how I feel about this info.

[JBean]

I think ,and yes it's only my opinion, that she withheld the information because she was scared...truly scared.Why do you think that she then offered the info up?

I was thinking kind of the opposite. IOW, I thought she didn't mention it intially because she didn't think for a minute that her daughter killed Caylee. Consequently she dismissed info that seemed insignificant. But as time has gone on, she is thinking more and more about what transpired and offering more information as she thinks of it to get to the bottom of it.
I think Cindy is seeing the light and is helping to discover the truth.

[RR0004]

I believe I read here earlier today that Cindy said she offered the information about washing the pants to LE the first night, and they weren't interested. It wouldn't be surprising that LE didn't include that in their initial report if they didn't seem to find it important.
I'd really like for LE to address that...because if they didn't take note of the items than I think it was a lapse in judgement and presumptuous on their part. I also wondered why they didn't collect the boots and shoes yesterday (unless they already had them).

[KR2tonenow]

AMAZING resemblance!

I agree!

[chrisg]

I think so. After all, she is all they've got. Casey sure isn't talking!! She may be freely providing information once push comes to shove on some issues. She is certainly NOT forthcoming with all information. There is a difference. It was discovered, she didn't volunteer it! Don't forget the feds got involved shortly before this 8/4 interview. I think it was 7/31 or so. Coincidence that this info was discovered shortly thereafter? Not a chance!

I agree w/ this completely. There is a huge difference between volunteering information and reluctantly admitting things under questioning w/ the very real threat of obstruction of justice charges hanging over your head. I also agree that that is exactly why the Feds were called in.

[racegirl72]

Why do you think that she then offered the info up?

I was thinking kind of the opposite. IOW, I thought she didn't mention it intially because she didn't think for a minute that her daughter killed Caylee. Consequently she dismissed info that seemed insignificant. But as time has gone on, she is thinking more and more about what transpired and offering more information as she thinks of it to get to the bottom of it.
I think Cindy is seeing the light and is helping to discover the truth.

If that's the case, then I guess she just enjoys humiliating herself by taking up for Casey! lol

[blondietx]

Why do you think that she then offered the info up?

I was thinking kind of the opposite. IOW, I thought she didn't mention it intially because she didn't think for a minute that her daughter killed Caylee. Consequently she dismissed info that seemed insignificant. But as time has gone on, she is thinking more and more about what transpired and offering more information as she thinks of it to get to the bottom of it.
I think Cindy is seeing the light and is helping to discover the truth.

The car smelled like death and her granddaughter was missing. There is an entire 911 call devoted to this. She knew something was amiss. And again, why would you touch anything in a car that you just admitted smelled like it had a d*mn dead body in it?