Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #19

[maconrich]

IMO, he could have gone to the private service that was held without media. And with the he was going to have his own service, unless someone (or BC himself) knows and says he did have one, I'm not believing it.

With the family at the pcs I've wondered if having N's twin out there for the public to see might have been a partial motive? As in putting out what N looked like for those who didn't know her but maybe saw her jogging that am or something?

Regardless it doesn't seem unusual for families to be involved in pcs in cases like this (missing and/or murder cases). The main thing that hit me as unusual was the fact BC wasn't there for the one following the positive id.

[tsfkms]

Actually, that's not true. There were two news conferences after it was determined to be homicide. The first one, the police chief took no questions but said that she was yielding the floor to the family who would answer questions only about Nancy as a person (no questions about the crime, about Brad, about their marriage, etc). The second one, again, the police chief provided no info herself, but said that she was yielding the floor to the family where they would answer questions about the children only (again, no questions about the crime, Brad, marriage, etc).

So, again, I don't see how it is law enforcement's role to play press agents for the victim's family and it seemed very atypical to me.

IIRC, the case was ruled a homicide on the 15th and there were news conferences (at least) on the morning of the 16th, 17th, and 18th. I think the chief took questions on the 16th, but not on the 17th and 18th.

I found the news conferences on the 17th and 18th somewhat "off" -- because there was no news. Seems to me that the purpose of those two conferences was to pressure Brad to turn himself in. IIRC, the family said that the pain would not start to go away until the case was resolved. I think the family knew that the longer the case went unresolved, the greater the potential for Nancy's reputation to suffer. I think they were trying to protect their daughter.

[jilly]

Hi jilly......

I know you directed this question to fran and she will probably know the answer........interesting question and I may go do some "googling" while we wait for her answer.

I just wanted to add that they can analyze the insects on/within the body as well which would assist in determining how long NC's body had been at the location she was found and possibly TOD (since I think she was dumped very shortly after being killed).

One other thing.......even if the stomach contents and the insect info can be analyzed......I think the timeline is so "tight", if you will, that that information is not going to be anything "key" in this case.....unless, by some chance she was abducted by a stranger and possibly kept alive for a day or so.

Thanks so much for responding mahmoo!:)
Is this standard procedure with the insects? I've seen it on CSI but I've never followed a trial which involved analyzing insects.

Interesting about the "tight" timeline. Thanks again!:)

[mahmoo]

Ohhh mom - sorry if I offended you - but this is the line that I took to mean he wasn't charged until the neighbor came forward -

The one thing I believe nailed him is he stated his ex had not come over to settle a dispute, a neighbor stepped forward to say the ex WAS there and they saw the car.

It could have been the case but we don't know. I realize you certainly didn't say that he wasn't charged until the neighbor came forward and I'm sorry for misinterpreting.:blowkiss:

:whipper: for jlly......how could you misinterpret that way.....shame on you :whipper:

j/k...........forgive yourself for your indiscretion :)

[raisincharlie]

RC,

I don't want to speak for SleuthSayer, but this is the part of the post that isn't true.


So you believe a presser on the 16th in which they said nothing should not have been allowed ? The one on the 17th - the press had questions of them - should that have been disallowed as well ? And the one on the 18th they expressed thanks, assured people the kids were okay, and announced memorial services and responded to questions should also have been disallowed ?

I see.

[mahmoo]

Thanks so much for responding mahmoo!:)
Is this standard procedure with the insects? I've seen it on CSI but I've never followed a trial which involved analyzing insects.

Interesting about the "tight" timeline. Thanks again!:)

This is soooooooooooo off topic but, I have NEVER seen one episode of CSI.............go figure..........me being the crime junkie I am......LOL.

[FullDisclosure]

I agree with you - I have zero idea what I would do either.

As to the last part, I recall Brad attended the 14 July 630 presser and was given the chance to speak - he had his say. I also recall Chief Bazemore saying that Brad had declined to attend certain conferences, so it seems to me LE opened the floor for all, some took it up, some did not. I believe you will find this to be common in missing persons cases, which is what this started out to be. The conferences with families pretty much stopped when Nancy's death was ruled a homicide.

So you believe a presser on the 16th in which they said nothing should not have been allowed ? The one on the 17th - the press had questions of them - should that have been disallowed as well ? And the one on the 18th they expressed thanks, assured people the kids were okay, and announced memorial services and responded to questions should also have been disallowed ?

I see.

RC,

Go back and read the posts. Earlier, I snipped the single statement that I said I thought SS meant wasn't true. Here I brought the whole post but made the single statement red. I said NOTHING about whether I thought anything should be allowed or disallowed. :confused:

[EntreNous]

This is soooooooooooo off topic but, I have NEVER seen one episode of CSI.............go figure..........me being the crime junkie I am......LOL.

I haven't either Mahmoo. Although I do love a good documentary, I don't go in for crime dramas or crime novels.

[raisincharlie]

RC,

Go back and read the posts. Earlier, I snipped the single statement that I said I thought SS meant wasn't true. Here I brought the whole post but made the single statement red. I said NOTHING about whether I thought anything should be allowed or disallowed. :confused:

And I'm asking questions - should they have not been allowed to sit through press conferences given by LE saying nothing, or answer questions from the press after LE was done, when everyone is siting in the same room, or provide public information regarding memorials ?

2 press conferences over 2 days - is pretty much stopped considering there were sometimes 3 in a day

[mahmoo]

I haven't either Mahmoo. Although I do love a good documentary, I don't go in for crime dramas or crime novels.

I've been watching the prison documentaries..........OMG.......there are some creepy freaky people in prison........99% of them look like they should NEVER be let out in public again.......ever.

[jilly]

And I guess I should have put in a smiley face in my post to Jilly, before someone comes along and takes it as "attacking". I meant it in jest, as well as seriously. :D :D :D

:applause: - I know ya did ncnative! I was about to respond to your post (I like to read through them all first) with a :floorlaugh: Cracked me right up - especially the one about having teeth! ROFL still laffin.
As soon as I pushed that submit button, I realized I shouldn't have said "sophisticated" because I knew someone would respond! :)I never meant to insult the citizens of NC - heck I live in Canada so we're waaaaay behind in crime solving. The good ole RCMP should change their motto to "seldom get their man"! IN MY OPINION! LOL

I follow these cases because I want justice for the victims. Just so happens that 3 of them lately have been in NC. What I was questioning (or trying to, lol) was if LE had the resources=money to conduct detailed analyses.

:sothere::footinmouth: Think I'll go and watch Canadian Idol.:crazy:

[jilly]

This is soooooooooooo off topic but, I have NEVER seen one episode of CSI.............go figure..........me being the crime junkie I am......LOL.

I need your avatar! lol

[fran]

Fran - do you know - would they still be able to determine what was or not digested when her body decomposed for a couple/few days?

I dunno. Do you think that they are this sophisticated in NC(?) because I just have a feeling from what I've read in the Young case and the book on Eric Miller's murder that NC might not have the resouces to do a lot of these investigations with insects etc. The ME in the Young case didn't even do a SAK.

I hope they do but from what I've learned, they don't seem to be that big on CE without some accompanying direct evidence. Another case 'Mom' mentioned - they wouldn't charge until someone saw the murderer at the scene. Jason Young is still enjoying his freedom. Ann Miller was only charged because a lawyer for a key witness (who commit suicide) was forced to divulge what his client had said to him.


This linked page may answer some autopsy questions for you. As Nancy was located in just a few short days, I'm sure her stomach contents were intact. I did read another autopsy report (not exactly my thing), that was describing a body found (after a few weeks) in an advanced stage of decomposition in which most of the interior organs were gone. (demcomposed)

This link also describes forensic entomology (bugs, maggots, and other icky creatures)

HTH,
fran

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm

Time Since Death

[momto3kids]

Tonight my husband brought up a good point that I had not thought of....

By pushing for the psychiatric test as NC's family is, if it proves BC does have some psychological issues, then IMO K&B are going to jump all over it in their defense for BC if he gets charged with murder. Should we be handing them this on a silver platter?

[raisincharlie]

Tonight my husband brought up a good point that I had not thought of....

By pushing for the psychiatric test as NC's family is, if it proves BC does have some psychological issues, then IMO K&B are going to jump all over it in their defense for BC if he gets charged with murder. Should we be handing them this on a silver platter?

If he is charged and brought to trial it won't be a problem unless he has an IQ of less than 70, which is pretty doubtful. He says he's never been treated for mental illness, he has already emptied that glass. JMO

[fran]

I haven't either Mahmoo. Although I do love a good documentary, I don't go in for crime dramas or crime novels.

Uhhmmmm........I KNOW someone who's a forensic chemist/witness and stuff. ;)

truth and not JMHO,
:rolleyes:
fran

[jilly]

This linked page may answer some autopsy questions for you. As Nancy was located in just a few short days, I'm sure her stomach contents were intact. I did read another autopsy report (not exactly my thing), that was describing a body found (after a few weeks) in an advanced stage of decomposition in which most of the interior organs were gone. (demcomposed)

This link also describes forensic entomology (bugs, maggots, and other icky creatures)

HTH,
fran

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm

Time Since Death

Oh Wow! This is an excellent link! Thanks very much - I've bookmarked it!

[fran]

Oh Wow! This is an excellent link! Thanks very much - I've bookmarked it!

Y/W jilly

:)
fran

[jilly]

This is soooooooooooo off topic but, I have NEVER seen one episode of CSI.............go figure..........me being the crime junkie I am......LOL.

It obviously hasn't hurt you!:crazy: Might be why I want these cases solved in 45 minutes!:D
Thanks for the :whipper: support!:D

[cygnusx1]

There is. I just looked at it via WRAL.com, the traffic tab. I can't see the HT though.

The HT in question (Crescent Commons) is about 3 mi. away from Holly Springs and Cary Parkway. It is diagonally on the opposite side of the entire Lochmere/Camden Forest/Winston Ridge subdivision.

If he had gone through any intersection with traffic cameras that is near the HT, it would have been the one at Kildaire Farm Rd and Tryon Rd. But that intersection is beyond the light at the driveway to Crescent Commons, so it is doubtful he would have gone through that intersection at the alleged 4:00am run or even the 6:15 and 6:30 runs.

However, his trip to LTF while searching for Nancy would most likely have him turning left from Kildaire Farm Rd onto Tryon and his vehicle should be on that camera for that trip.

[mahmoo]

Uhhmmmm........I KNOW someone who's a forensic chemist/witness and stuff. ;)

truth and not JMHO,
:rolleyes:
fran

Wowsers............I knew there was more to you than meets the eye. Was gonna gonna defend you against some of the earlier posts but I had a feeling you could fend for yourself. Must be some interesting conversations ya'll have had or that's off limits?

[mahmoo]

It obviously hasn't hurt you!:crazy: Might be why I want these cases solved in 45 minutes!:D
Thanks for the :whipper: support!:D

roflmao

[FullDisclosure]

And I'm asking questions - should they have not been allowed to sit through press conferences given by LE saying nothing, or answer questions from the press after LE was done, when everyone is siting in the same room, or provide public information regarding memorials ?

2 press conferences over 2 days - is pretty much stopped considering there were sometimes 3 in a day

Sorry, RC, but the manner in which you asked the questions, followed by your statement of "I see." led me to believe that they weren't REALLY questions, but that words were being put into my mouth.

I hope SS doesn't mind me quoting her, but this post answers your questions better than I can say it:

Actually, that's not true. There were two news conferences after it was determined to be homicide. The first one, the police chief took no questions but said that she was yielding the floor to the family who would answer questions only about Nancy as a person (no questions about the crime, about Brad, about their marriage, etc). The second one, again, the police chief provided no info herself, but said that she was yielding the floor to the family where they would answer questions about the children only (again, no questions about the crime, Brad, marriage, etc).

So, again, I don't see how it is law enforcement's role to play press agents for the victim's family and it seemed very atypical to me.

I'll add that I do not necessarily think the conferences after Nancy's death was declared a homicide should have been disallowed. I never said that. I just thought those particular pressers were odd in that the floor was yielded to the family who didn't take questions about the crime but about Nancy as a person.

I apologize if I've offended you in some way RC. Just discussing the case here, like everyone else.

[ncnative]

I've read most posts regarding Brad's mom. I remember that she was described as controlling (wouldn't let Nancy have dinner in Nancy's own home when Mom Cooper was there, the story about taking the kids to the zoo and not calling...Mom Cooper could've reminded Brad to call Nancy regarding how the girls were doing, Mom Cooper slamming the door in Amanda Lamb's face), and somewhere I just got the impression that she is "natured" like her son Brad. I'd like to see a psychiatric evaluation on Brad's mom! Or better, hear what the locals in her home town might have to say about Brad and his mom.

Call me weird. I'm curious. (Besides, they did that in the Dahmer case, Scott Peterson case, and way back in the Bundy case...went over the childhoods, parenting, events, friends, etc. of these criminals). No, I realize Brad isn't a criminal, yet anyway. We'll see.

I did see on a message board where one of Brad's long ago ex-girlfriends spoke about him. She said he was pouty, stewed over things for a time, then blew up. Was controlling. As usual I can't find it. If it wasn't on this board it probably was on the message board "In Session", which has dwindled down to not much lately. The ex-girlfriend (I think she was from the college era) said that she broke up with him mainly because of his emotional roller-coaster personality. I do wish I could find that. I'll look for it.

[fran]

Owning a business I can tell you that cutting off Nancy's credit cards should NOT have stopped her from having her own personal shopping/wardrobe consultant business My Opinion

I'm going to completely disagree with you here. Nancy said she was in an abusive relationship. Not in the exact words, but by descriptions of the state of their marriage, it fits the profile of an abusive relationship. Add in the fact Nancy ended up dead, also, IF the husband did it, points towards ultimate control by the abuser.

As for the 'financial aspect.' It APPEARS, Nancy was trying to turn into a business, something she loved. Shopping and giving fashion advice to her friends, etc. This was just at about the same time Brad cut Nancy off of the credit cards. Of course it was the same time that Nancy had filed for the legal separation and Brad found out how much he had to pay, that he cut her off.

Oh........fiscally sound reasoning due to their financial condition. So, when Nancy gets cut off the credit cards and is given whatever Brad feels like giving her at the time for food, etc., each week, Nancy, trying again, begins doing 'chores,' for her friends for pay. But true to form, when Brad learns Nancy is 'working for money,' he decides to dock her weekly allowance, or perhaps not giving her anything, as she already had some from painting.

Anyone who thinks that is ok. Anyone that can find a good reason for Brad doing this, well, I just do NOT know what to say.

It's not right. Just not right. And now Nancy Cooper is dead. :(

JMHO
fran


http://www.buffalonews.com/145/story/388865.html
Financial abuse can entrap women


http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/3662
This is the story of an American woman who fled with her children from her abusive husband to Holland. She faces imprisonment or turn over her children.

As Nancy was in the U.S. tied to Brad's green card/work visa, IF she continued with divorce proceedings, he MAY have been able to hamper her efforts to get custody of the children AND have her deported. This is in part why Nancy was attempting to get a green card so she could work in the U.S. legally.


http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html
Most battered women take active steps to protect their children, even if they do not leave their batterer.

Brad had taken the children's passports and hidden them so Nancy couldn't flee with them. The only way Nancy could be with her children, was to stay with Brad. That is,.........UNTIL she could get her U.S. green card.

[FullDisclosure]

I've read most posts regarding Brad's mom. I remember that she was described as controlling (wouldn't let Nancy have dinner in Nancy's own home when Mom Cooper was there, the story about taking the kids to the zoo and not calling...Mom Cooper could've reminded Brad to call Nancy regarding how the girls were doing, Mom Cooper slamming the door in Amanda Lamb's face, and somewhere I just got the impression that she is "natured" like her son Brad. I'd like to see a psychiatric evaluation on Brad's mom! Or better, hear what the locals in her home town might have to say about Brad and his mom.

Call me weird. I'm curious. (Besides, they did that in the Dahmer case, Scott Peterson case, and way back in the Bundy case...went over the childhoods, parenting, events, friends, etc. of these criminals). No, I realize Brad isn't a criminal, yet anyway. We'll see.

I did see on a message board where one of Brad's long ago ex-girlfriends spoke about him. She said he was pouty, stewed over things for a time, then blew up. Was controlling. As usual I can't find it. If it wasn't on this board it probably was on the message board "In Session", which has dwindled down to not much lately. The ex-girlfriend (I think she was from the college era) said that she broke up with him mainly because of his emotional roller-coaster personality. I do wish I could find that. I'll look for it.

NCNative,

If the way that BC's mom was described is true, I would certainly not want her as my MIL!! I think that I would, however, slam the door in Amanda Lamb's face were I in the position she's in now. Now don't get me wrong, I think Amanda Lamb is a lovely person, I'm just sayin'...

The long-ago ex-girlfriend post was from this board. I remember it as well. It seems like that post was pretty early on but I remember it was some strong stuff she said. I bet you'll be able to hunt it up :crazy:

[cygnusx1]

Private as in BC was the only person attending?

Well, perhaps there was a private ceremony?

Post #127 by aikohead on this page on HOWDesign: Google cache (http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:OP2pMYATKNUJ:forum.howdesign.com/fb.aspx%3Fm%3D409960%26key%3D+aikohead+site:forum. howdesign.com+brad&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
I have a conference call in five minutes with what I am calling "the core" to talk about the private celebration we are having tomorrow night, the public celebration on Saturday (we are expecting over 1000 people) at Koka Booth Amphitheater, the fund we have set up for Bella and Katie.... just a bunch of stuff.

[Fairy1]

NCNative,

If the way that BC's mom was described is true, I would certainly not want her as my MIL!! I think that I would, however, slam the door in Amanda Lamb's face were I in the position she's in now. Now don't get me wrong, I think Amanda Lamb is a lovely person, I'm just sayin'...

The long-ago ex-girlfriend post was from this board. I remember it as well. It seems like that post was pretty early on but I remember it was some strong stuff she said. I bet you'll be able to hunt it up :crazy:

If the description of BC's mom is accurate AT ALL - it sends up several red flags to me. First of all, if NC gave in to her demands, it tells me that she likely was an abused woman and was completely under someone else's control. NO ONE - ever - would have had control over where or when my children were "off limits" to me - their Mother! And......how many freaks have we read about who had "mother issues?" It's a common thread among the wierdos we hear about. It's not an anomoly.

[EntreNous]

Found this from the "Brad Cooper" thread, post #5

Nursebeeme posted-

As soon as I find the exact posts (cannot even remember the user names and if anyone else can help out with that please let me know), I will edit them into this..

1) ex girlfriend poster stated that Brad was given ever oportunity by his family and she also is not surprised this happened and believes that he did this. She asked him if he was reading here on his laptop and she asked him why. She described him as very intelligent and very private. She was surprised that Nancy didn't see his controling side before she had kids with him. she also went to high school with brad thank you jilly...she has located this post......here it is:
I find this extremely difficult. I feel so much grief for those two little girls whose world has been absolutely ripped apart. This is not something that will pass. This is something that will be with them their entire life. I feel for NC's family..what a horrible thing to have to endure. At the same time, I feel for BC's family. No one raises a child to become a murderer (if indeed he did this). BC's family has lost a daughter-in-law, are watching what's happening to their son and who knows how much access they are getting with their grandchildren. These people are grieving too. They are trying to hope beyond hope and believe in their son that he was not responsible for this. They, however, must realize that this does not look good for him.

I think the parents can not be blamed for his mental instability, I truly believe he has a chemical imbalance which in absolutely NO WAY does it excuse what's happened. I don't believe it to even be any sort of defense. There are tons of ways to work through chemical imbalances and personality issues. It is never a defense for murder, IMO.

Now before someone jumps on me for defending him or his family, I have a right to be so torn. I am one of those "ex's" from Canada. BC is from a good family. They gave him so many opportunities that others never had. The Calgary poster is right though. As a person, Brad can be materialistic, self-centered, narcisistic (sp?), moody, mean, emotionally controlling and the like. He can also be a good person, we all have good in us. Nancy must have seen more of his good side at the beginning to have wanted to have children with him and probably tried so hard (as all of his previous relationships did) to work through the bad.

I feel horrible for what NC had to endure and the outcome (at whoever's hands). This is such an awful situation. My head KNOWS how this is going to turn out, my heart wishes it would be different. I wish it was going to be a different outcome because I have shared part of my life, my family....with BC and can't believe that someone that I had put my trust in could ever be involved in such a horrible act. I don't feel sorry for BC because he put himself in this situation. I feel sorry for NC, those poor children and both families.

He is an intensely private person. He is also an extremely smart person which surprises me all the more that he would do something so stupid. I don't think that it was pre-meditated. I think there was an argument that got out of control, one thing led to another and she was gone and he panicked. Which is why everything is unravelling for him. If this was premeditated, he is smart...he would have covered everything to the last meticulous detail.

I think he's guilty. I'll say it clear. But I do feel for his family as well.

And Brad, if you're reading this, because lord knows if you're not in jail, you'll have that laptop all wired up, how could you?


2)we had a friend of BC (?) post from canada...he worked with him. He said it was strange that brad had no friends from highschool and that he did not keep relationships with people. The way he posted...it was Brad was a loner and very private, serious person who did not make friends easily or keep them thanks again jilly!!!!!: Yesterday, 04:22 PM
calgary123
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4


Brad does not have any "close" friends of which I'm aware. He doesn't tend to make lasting friendships.

He went to high school in Medicine Hat, then moved to Calgary. When in Calgary, he had no friends from his high school days. That by itself is odd, and I thought it odd even back then... you would think a few years out of high school you'd still have some friends from your youth. He did not.

Then from Calgary he moved to NC. He did not keep in touch with any of his friends from Calgary once he moved to NC. There just wasn't that kind of bond.

Of all his "friends" I know in Calgary (including myself) not one person has said they don't think he did it. In fact, we all think he likely did.

One of his ex-girlfriends commented to me the other day that she felt odd saying it, but she could actually see him doing something like this.
__________________
This bee my opinion

[mahmoo]

I'll add that I do not necessarily think the conferences after Nancy's death was declared a homicide should have been disallowed. I never said that. I just thought those particular pressers were odd in that the floor was yielded to the family who didn't take questions about the crime but about Nancy as a person.


I understand what you're saying. Actually, I don't understand why any LE really has any press conferences.............they can't answer the questions........why bother?

[EntreNous]

Sorry, here's the link...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67640

[FullDisclosure]

You found it, Entrenous! You're goooood :woohoo:

Just as I remember, some strong stuff....we don't know how much is true, but it's very strong and seems sincere. It's "sincere-say!" :crazy:

[ncnative]

Thanks everyone, for finding these posts. My eyeballs have dried up.

[mahmoo]

you been busy yeah :online:

[Fairy1]

Sorry, here's the link...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67640


Wow! This is very telling to me - if true. Someone so private, quiet and isolated is completely capable of compartmentalizing his life and actions. I'm NOT saying that NC was completely innocent of the discord in this marriage, but she has been murdered. Brad is still alive and his children have been removed from his care. All of these FACTS speak volumes to me.

[EntreNous]

Here's the original with her name/nic RKAB -

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2395830&postcount=205

[jumpstreet]

In fact, I'm sure that this is not a popular opinion here, but I found those news conferences that Nancy's family participated in after her body was found to be very strange and somewhat inappropriate. The Cary police chief called two news conferences where she said absolutely nothing, but then turned the floor over to the family to talk about Nancy and then to talk about her children. In what way is it the role of the police to call news conferences for this type of thing? Do they host press conferences for families of all victims of violent crimes?

This point somewhat supports Theory D (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)

[fran]

Well, perhaps there was a private ceremony?

Post #127 by aikohead on this page on HOWDesign: Google cache (http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:OP2pMYATKNUJ:forum.howdesign.com/fb.aspx%3Fm%3D409960%26key%3D+aikohead+site:forum. howdesign.com+brad&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
I have a conference call in five minutes with what I am calling "the core" to talk about the private celebration we are having tomorrow night, the public celebration on Saturday (we are expecting over 1000 people) at Koka Booth Amphitheater, the fund we have set up for Bella and Katie.... just a bunch of stuff.

I believe this 'private ceremony' they're talking about here is Nancy's family had a 'private ceremony' for Nancy's friends on Friday night, Saturday was the public ceremony, Sunday the family returned to Canada and on Wednesday they had Nancy's final service.

Brad did NOT attend any of these.

JMHO
fran

[EntreNous]

And she had more to say here...
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2400266&postcount=37

[FullDisclosure]

This point somewhat supports Theory D (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)

Oh, how I would love for it to be Theory D. That would be the best possible scenario.

[Fairy1]

Oh, how I would love for it to be Theory D. That would be the best possible scenario.

Well, once you find a dead body, this theory goes out the window. What's your second choice?

[EntreNous]

You found it, Entrenous! You're goooood :woohoo:

Just as I remember, some strong stuff....we don't know how much is true, but it's very strong and seems sincere. It's "sincere-say!" :crazy:

Aw, shucks. Thanks. :blowkiss:

[mahmoo]

Wow! This is very telling to me - if true. Someone so private, quiet and isolated is completely capable of compartmentalizing his life and actions. I'm NOT saying that NC was completely innocent of the discord in this marriage, but she has been murdered. Brad is still alive and his children have been removed from his care. All of these FACTS speak volumes to me.

Yep...............I agree.

Then if ya thrown in the possible 4 am ish trip to HT......which I bought stock in and hoping to double my money.........It all seems to point to Brad IMO.

[FullDisclosure]

Well, once you find a dead body, this theory goes out the window. What's your second choice?

yes, you do have a point! I clearly need to go to bed :crazy:

On second thought, who actually saw the body? Hmmmmm.....

Okay, I really DO need to go to bed. I'm not making sense.....g'night, all!:rolleyes:

[EntreNous]

Nighters!

[fran]

Sorry, here's the link...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67640

Thank you for the link. Very enlightening.

JMHO
fran

[Fairy1]

yes, you do have a point! I clearly need to go to bed :crazy:

On second thought, who actually saw the body? Hmmmmm.....

Okay, I really DO need to go to bed. I'm not making sense.....g'night, all!:rolleyes:

Goodnight! And just for the record, I appreciate your POV!

[mahmoo]

I agree with Fairy.............your posts do make me think!!

[jumpstreet]

Well, once you find a dead body, this theory goes out the window. What's your second choice?

Right :) ... When I posted these major categories on the Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)thread, I noted there that some were a "stretch" (most notably Theory D), but was an attempt to cover all ends of the spectrum, based on current knowns. [ Theory D is for the "conspiracy" theorists / optimists out there, but it does require conceding that the family, LE, and the ME, among others are all somehow in cahoots ].

Based on the strawpoll conducted earlier, here's how folks on the board so far have quantified "likelihood" of each theory, based on opinions & current knowns:

A: BC did it (or arranged it): 78.2% chance
B: Person known to NC other than BC did it: 11.8% chance
C: Random crime: 9.75% chance
D: She's Alive & In A Witness Protection Program: 0.25% chance

Feel free to post or PM me, and I'll update poll. Will be interesting to see how the numbers change as more things become known.

[Roy23]

Found this from the "Brad Cooper" thread, post #5

Nursebeeme posted-

As soon as I find the exact posts (cannot even remember the user names and if anyone else can help out with that please let me know), I will edit them into this..

1) ex girlfriend poster stated that Brad was given ever oportunity by his family and she also is not surprised this happened and believes that he did this. She asked him if he was reading here on his laptop and she asked him why. She described him as very intelligent and very private. She was surprised that Nancy didn't see his controling side before she had kids with him. she also went to high school with brad thank you jilly...she has located this post......here it is:
I find this extremely difficult. I feel so much grief for those two little girls whose world has been absolutely ripped apart. This is not something that will pass. This is something that will be with them their entire life. I feel for NC's family..what a horrible thing to have to endure. At the same time, I feel for BC's family. No one raises a child to become a murderer (if indeed he did this). BC's family has lost a daughter-in-law, are watching what's happening to their son and who knows how much access they are getting with their grandchildren. These people are grieving too. They are trying to hope beyond hope and believe in their son that he was not responsible for this. They, however, must realize that this does not look good for him.

I think the parents can not be blamed for his mental instability, I truly believe he has a chemical imbalance which in absolutely NO WAY does it excuse what's happened. I don't believe it to even be any sort of defense. There are tons of ways to work through chemical imbalances and personality issues. It is never a defense for murder, IMO.

Now before someone jumps on me for defending him or his family, I have a right to be so torn. I am one of those "ex's" from Canada. BC is from a good family. They gave him so many opportunities that others never had. The Calgary poster is right though. As a person, Brad can be materialistic, self-centered, narcisistic (sp?), moody, mean, emotionally controlling and the like. He can also be a good person, we all have good in us. Nancy must have seen more of his good side at the beginning to have wanted to have children with him and probably tried so hard (as all of his previous relationships did) to work through the bad.

I feel horrible for what NC had to endure and the outcome (at whoever's hands). This is such an awful situation. My head KNOWS how this is going to turn out, my heart wishes it would be different. I wish it was going to be a different outcome because I have shared part of my life, my family....with BC and can't believe that someone that I had put my trust in could ever be involved in such a horrible act. I don't feel sorry for BC because he put himself in this situation. I feel sorry for NC, those poor children and both families.

He is an intensely private person. He is also an extremely smart person which surprises me all the more that he would do something so stupid. I don't think that it was pre-meditated. I think there was an argument that got out of control, one thing led to another and she was gone and he panicked. Which is why everything is unravelling for him. If this was premeditated, he is smart...he would have covered everything to the last meticulous detail.

I think he's guilty. I'll say it clear. But I do feel for his family as well.

And Brad, if you're reading this, because lord knows if you're not in jail, you'll have that laptop all wired up, how could you?


2)we had a friend of BC (?) post from canada...he worked with him. He said it was strange that brad had no friends from highschool and that he did not keep relationships with people. The way he posted...it was Brad was a loner and very private, serious person who did not make friends easily or keep them thanks again jilly!!!!!: Yesterday, 04:22 PM
calgary123
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4


Brad does not have any "close" friends of which I'm aware. He doesn't tend to make lasting friendships.

He went to high school in Medicine Hat, then moved to Calgary. When in Calgary, he had no friends from his high school days. That by itself is odd, and I thought it odd even back then... you would think a few years out of high school you'd still have some friends from your youth. He did not.

Then from Calgary he moved to NC. He did not keep in touch with any of his friends from Calgary once he moved to NC. There just wasn't that kind of bond.

Of all his "friends" I know in Calgary (including myself) not one person has said they don't think he did it. In fact, we all think he likely did.

One of his ex-girlfriends commented to me the other day that she felt odd saying it, but she could actually see him doing something like this.
__________________
This bee my opinion


Wow!!!!!

[FlowerChild]

I'm going to completely disagree with you here. Nancy said she was in an abusive relationship. Not in the exact words, but by descriptions of the state of their marriage, it fits the profile of an abusive relationship. Add in the fact Nancy ended up dead, also, IF the husband did it, points towards ultimate control by the abuser.

As for the 'financial aspect.' It APPEARS, Nancy was trying to turn into a business, something she loved. Shopping and giving fashion advice to her friends, etc. This was just at about the same time Brad cut Nancy off of the credit cards. Of course it was the same time that Nancy had filed for the legal separation and Brad found out how much he had to pay, that he cut her off.

Oh........fiscally sound reasoning due to their financial condition. So, when Nancy gets cut off the credit cards and is given whatever Brad feels like giving her at the time for food, etc., each week, Nancy, trying again, begins doing 'chores,' for her friends for pay. But true to form, when Brad learns Nancy is 'working for money,' he decides to dock her weekly allowance, or perhaps not giving her anything, as she already had some from painting.

Anyone who thinks that is ok. Anyone that can find a good reason for Brad doing this, well, I just do NOT know what to say.

It's not right. Just not right. And now Nancy Cooper is dead. :(

JMHO
fran

If you read my entire post I never said ANYTHING about abuse, not abuse etc. ALL I said was Brad's cutting off Nancy's Credit Cards (and that alone) had NOTHING to do with her business succeeding or failing. Had Nancy wished to continue her business she could have, Brad was barely home and she had plenty of free time to devote to the business that Brad had no control over. Nancy could have continued with her business WITHOUT a single credit card or even a checking account - it might have been slightly more difficult, but she COULD HAVE DONE IT. I don't think Brad was aware enough of what Nancy did most of the day to care whether she had a side business for herself or not. Brad's control didn't seem to extend OUTSIDE the house with Nancy traveling and having social activities without Brad. She was socializing and running and doing things with her friends so she COULD HAVE MAINTAINED HER BUSINESS WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD.

I appreciate the links but I am aware of the definition of and behavior of controlling and abusive men. I have dealt with my share of men with "issues", and I graduated with a double major, the 2nd in in psychology. Knowing several professionals (closely) who deal with the issues of abusive and controlling mates (male AND female) I find the standard fare of material and information to lack SOLUTIONS to the problems, they expend a great deal of time describing the signs, and very little on the underlying causes and attempts to direct people to suitable shelter, therapy or behavior modification. Escaping abuse is a process, recognizing the signs and getting out is only the 1st step in a long, hard, intensely personal journey - one that sadly, some women do not have the mental strength or proper resources and support to make successfully. They deserve nothing of their fate, but we (as a society) still do very little to empower these women and support their journey.

I see many issues between Brad and Nancy ON BOTH SIDES and I am seeing some signs of alarming behaviors from BOTH partners in this relationship. I think both people in this marriage had faults and I see a general incompatibility in several key areas. And as I have said more than once, MONEY issues can be a make or break issue in even the healthiest and most loving marriages. Here, in addition to an apparent financial break, Brad and Nancy seemed to be splitting in different directions in other ways - Brad becoming more immediately career/future focused and Nancy more immediately family/personal focused - which BTW, isn't unusual with SAHM's with success driven husbands. I think Nancy wanted the kids to be her life and to have a devoted, indulgent husband -like she perceived her friends had and Brad wanted a life with an attractive career wife focused on him - as he percieved his friends and superiors to have. NEITHER was happy with the status quo and BOTH seemed very unhappy and determined to have something different. Not healthy but not a recipe for murder either.

Reading information about abusive relationships in general is great but we were NOT inside this relationship and we have just a few facts upon which to judge whether EITHER partner was abusive, manipulative or passive/aggressive.

I am awaiting more information before I jump on the "Brad is evil murderer incarnate" wagon. And I don't think my point about Nancy's business venture mentioned ANYTHING abouit abuse, guilt or the relationship outside of what MIGHT have been happening regarding Nancy's business. I still stand on my point that as to NANCY'S BUSINESS, Brad had NOTHING to do with it's failure or success. If Nancy had really wanted her business to thrive, she could have done so (with work) without an additional penny of further monetary investment. It was within NANCY'S control, and if it failed, it was on Nancy, not Brad. I find it NOT based in ANY FACT to say that IF Nancy's business was failing (or never took off) it was BRAD'S FAULT. I belong to a group of successful women business owners (some with Nancy's SAME business) and I have to say that based on THEM (and some started in much worse circumstances than Nancy's) Nancy COULD have made it work ON HER OWN without a Visa OR a dime - if she had wanted to. IF Brad killed Nancy I doubt her shopping/consultant business had any part of that outcome. The problems between Nancy and Brad were way deeper than Nancy's business.

My Opinion

[mahmoo]

A: BC did it (or arranged it): 78.2% chance
B: Person known to NC other than BC did it: 11.8% chance
C: Random crime: 9.75% chance
D: She's Alive & In A Witness Protection Program: 0.25% chance

Feel free to post or PM me, and I'll update poll. Will be interesting to see how the numbers change as more things become known.

JMO :blowkiss:

I gotta feelin' that 78.2 is gonna end up closer to 99.9

[Tink56]

And she had more to say here...
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2400266&postcount=37


If this poster is for "real," and the other poster who responded (another former girlfriend), BC seems to have had and may well still have serious issues with women, in relationships, and in values.

(I'm reminded of the alleged petty way his mother treated Nancy--i.e. barring her (NC) from a dinner in her own home???? With this type of maternal figure, Brad probably had little respect for women. BTW--did anyone every figure out what was crossed off Momma Cooper's affidavit?)

I wish this poster would post again. However, when I read these earlier, I suspected that she stopped because BC could figure who she was, etc. I don't think I would like him angry with me...:shocked2:

Thanks for reposting these.

[mahmoo]

I hope anyone who wants to post here.............or send pm's to someone........realizes that they can do it anonymously and shouldn't be afraid to do it.

[fran]

If you read my entire post I never said ANYTHING about abuse, not abuse etc. ,My Opinion


Oh, I know you didn't mention abuse in your post. But that's MY point.

Money control WAS part of the abuse.

No matter what Nancy did, Brad overpowered her through threats or intimidation. She was beaten down. She may have had SOME freedom, but IMO, it was most likely only when Brad allowed it.

Nancy was also from a different country and her residency status was directly tied to Brad's job and his legal status. Nancy was trapped. She was trapped in a foreign country.

I don't believe any or all of the solutions that U.S. citizens could come up with or available to them apply here. I think this is something, at least for me, I don't know the procedures. Imagine having to deal with the volatile marriage day to day and know that just the wrong move and you could be deported, minus your children. She must have been terrified.

Nancy was Brad's victim and now she's dead.

I do not know how much of the marriage woes were Nancy's fault. But the fact that she's dead and one survived, I tend to think that she was out of her league. That's just me...

By all accounts Nancy's friends all say she was a really nice persone, etc. Her NOT loving husband said all sorts of NOT nice things about her. Of course, IMO, that's because he's trying to cover his bu** and the allegations of abuse which point to him as the perp.

Until there's an arrest, it runs 50/50. We'll just agree to disagree.

JMHO
fran

PS....And I DO believe Brad had EVERYTHING to do with Nancy being successful in business or not. HE held the purse strings and he used it to his FULL ADVANTAGE. Even to forcing Nancy and the kids to eat at friends. Yeah, he was a really indulgent husband. NOT...fran

[fran]

I wouldn't doubt if Brad hasn't had a few dimes (or would that be quarters or dollars?:crazy:) to LE about him.

I am fairly confident LE knows EXACTLY what they're dealing with here.:eek:

Could be why they're certain this is a solvable case.:behindbar

JMHO
fran

[EntreNous]

If this poster is for "real," and the other poster who responded (another former girlfriend), BC seems to have had and may well still have serious issues with women, in relationships, and in values.

(I'm reminded of the alleged petty way his mother treated Nancy--i.e. barring her (NC) from a dinner in her own home???? With this type of maternal figure, Brad probably had little respect for women. BTW--did anyone every figure out what was crossed off Momma Cooper's affidavit?)

I wish this poster would post again. However, when I read these earlier, I suspected that she stopped because BC could figure who she was, etc. I don't think I would like him angry with me...:shocked2:

Thanks for reposting these.

Tink, I think the person who responded to her is a man. If you're talking about Calgary. He and Brad had been roomates.

[mahmoo]

Until there's an arrest, it runs 50/50. We'll just agree to disagree.

JMHO
fran

Sorry for the snip fran........but............oh hell yeah I agree with you!!!:bow:

[fran]

Sorry for the snip fran........but............oh hell yeah I agree with you!!!:bow:

Why thank you. I needed that!

:)
fran

[ncnative]

Thanks, EntreNous. That's the post by Brad's ex-girlfriend that I was specifically looking for. The "emotional roller-coaster" one, and why she broke up with him. By gosh, if there's a trial and he's the accused, they should call this ex in, for no other reason than to say "We found her on Websleuths" and she's got the goods on this guy's past behaviors.

Of course I'm not a lawyer and could never play one on TV.

[mahmoo]

Thanks, EntreNous. That's the post by Brad's ex-girlfriend that I was specifically looking for. The "emotional roller-coaster" one, and why she broke up with him. By gosh, if there's a trial and he's the accused, they should call this ex in, for no other reason than to say "We found her on Websleuths" and she's got the goods on this guy's past behaviors.

Of course I'm not a lawyer and could never play one on TV.

I'm surprised "the press" missed her post here. It had kind of sunken to the back of my memory.......but, now that it's been brought up again......we should all re-read it and not forget it......it was very telling............IMO.

[Fairy1]

I see many issues between Brad and Nancy ON BOTH SIDES and I am seeing some signs of alarming behaviors from BOTH partners in this relationship. I think both people in this marriage had faults and I see a general incompatibility in several key areas. And as I have said more than once, MONEY issues can be a make or break issue in even the healthiest and most loving marriages. Here, in addition to an apparent financial break, Brad and Nancy seemed to be splitting in different directions in other ways
My Opinion

Me too FC, but only one of these partners is alive to tell the story. I believe most of us post our opinions based on our own experiences and we cannot project those experiences on to this case. When my first marriage was falling apart, I spoke to NO ONE about it. Many people, including my own family, were shocked when I left. But in time and, in retrospect, everyone understood it. I do have some concerns about what NC told her friends. Seems almost like a "set up" to me. I say this believing whole-heartedly that BC is the murderer in this case.

[EntreNous]

Flower Child said...
Here, in addition to an apparent financial break, Brad and Nancy seemed to be splitting in different directions in other ways - Brad becoming more immediately career/future focused and Nancy more immediately family/personal focused - which BTW, isn't unusual with SAHM's with success driven husbands...

Holy cow, I think we're following two different cases here.

Brad becoming more immediately career/future focused? Yes, that Ironman thing, his elaborate website devoted to SELF, his affair with HM, etc. doesn't strike me as being career/future focused at all.

And Nancy more immediately family/personal focused? She was doing labor work for friends to make money, which sounds much more survival focused. I doubt seriously she bought too many Prada bags from painting a friend's dining room. Hardly "personal" focused. But what puzzles me more is your assertion that Brad is career focused and Nancy personal focused when it was Nancy that was trying to start a business from scratch. That sounds pretty career focused to me.

I'd like to ask you just how many of these women you know, who have created successful businesses, are from a foreign country and only here under their husband's work visa, thus prohibited from working in the US? Prohibited from any assistance from the Chamber Of Commerce, prohibited from government grants or any other programs for American women in business? Then and only then should you apply the additional challenge of being in the midst of an extremely stressful marriage at it's end with a man who doles out restrictions on a whim.

So to sum it up...

Ironman & self serving website devoted solely Brad = career/future focused

Starting a business & painting friends houses = family/personal focused

[chauncey7381]

MAHMOO---

Threads back you wanted to know why I'm leaning towards BC's innocence.

1). He says he didn't do it.
2). He's cooperated with LE.
3). He states he last saw her around 7 a.m. to run (no one has disputed that yet)
4). He's not been named a suspect or a POI
5). CPD is still casing the neighborhood, asking for info, leads, I know of at least three occasions.
6). Not enough factual info public yet to fall off the fence.

I have no idea who murdered Nancy Cooper, in reading the affidavits, which are opinions, hearsay gossip etc., it's clear there are many conflicting stories. It could be a scorned lover, a complete stranger, a jealous housewife.

I gotta scoot, I work in RTP, not far from Cisco, believe me, many PhD's, professionals wear long sleeve shirts, I always have a sweater or sweatshirt in my office.

Somebody please post where WS crowd is meeting Sat morning! I might attend!

Too bad about the US Gymnasts!

[MoonFlwr]

MAHMOO---

Threads back you wanted to know why I'm leaning towards BC's innocence.

1). He says he didn't do it.
2). He's cooperated with LE.
3). He states he last saw her around 7 a.m. to run (no one has disputed that yet)
4). He's not been named a suspect or a POI
5). CPD is still casing the neighborhood, asking for info, leads, I know of at least three occasions.
6). Not enough factual info public yet to fall off the fence.

I have no idea who murdered Nancy Cooper, in reading the affidavits, which are opinions, hearsay gossip etc., it's clear there are many conflicting stories. It could be a scorned lover, a complete stranger, a jealous housewife.
I gotta scoot, I work in RTP, not far from Cisco, believe me, many PhD's, professionals wear long sleeve shirts, I always have a sweater or sweatshirt in my office.

Somebody please post where WS crowd is meeting Sat morning! I might attend!

Too bad about the US Gymnasts!

Pretty good point: Co-operating with LE.

In trying to think about who else, besides Brad, could be responsible for Nancy's death..I have tried to consider alternative things, too.

The suggestions you put forward above, seem worth thinking about. Less so, the complete stranger one, because of what the Police Chief said re 'an isolated incident'.

Still on the fence and hoping so badly that it was not Brad.

[momto3kids]

MAHMOO---

Threads back you wanted to know why I'm leaning towards BC's innocence.

1). He says he didn't do it.
2). He's cooperated with LE.
3). He states he last saw her around 7 a.m. to run (no one has disputed that yet)
4). He's not been named a suspect or a POI
5). CPD is still casing the neighborhood, asking for info, leads, I know of at least three occasions.
6). Not enough factual info public yet to fall off the fence.

I have no idea who murdered Nancy Cooper, in reading the affidavits, which are opinions, hearsay gossip etc., it's clear there are many conflicting stories. It could be a scorned lover, a complete stranger, a jealous housewife.

I gotta scoot, I work in RTP, not far from Cisco, believe me, many PhD's, professionals wear long sleeve shirts, I always have a sweater or sweatshirt in my office.

Somebody please post where WS crowd is meeting Sat morning! I might attend!

Too bad about the US Gymnasts!

It would be wonderful for the children's sake if BC was innocent..they would have the familiar surroundings they so much need, friends, school, and not to mention their dad.

After seeing yesterdays request by NC's parents to have the hearing on Sept. 22...I assume moved up from Oct 13 there is a ?? as to why. I believe Sept is approx.(60 days)when the DNA is expected back and they want the custody case behind them. Another red flag IMO.

I was on the fence until last week and I didn't fall to the innocent side for BC.
Even though he hasn't been named a suspect or POI, he has to know deep down he is. Why the heck was a SW done on Cisco? It was because BC is the focus IMO.

Because he says he didn't do it means he didn't? I believe most who are guilty of murder go to trial still saying they are innocent, why would BC be any different?

LE still casing the neighborhood is IMO to show NO ONE saw NC jogging like BC states she did. The other reason is possilbe they would love to have someone identify a vehicle driven by BC to the dump site.

[raisincharlie]

It would be wonderful for the children's sake if BC was innocent..they would have the familiar surroundings they so much need, friends, school, and not to mention their dad.

After seeing yesterdays request by NC's parents to have the hearing on Sept. 22...I assume moved up from Oct 13 there is a ?? as to why. I believe Sept is approx.(60 days)when the DNA is expected back and they want the custody case behind them. Another red flag IMO.

I was on the fence until last week and I didn't fall to the innocent side for BC.
Even though he hasn't been named a suspect or POI, he has to know deep down he is. Why the heck was a SW done on Cisco? It was because BC is the focus IMO.

Because he says he didn't do it means he didn't? I believe most who are guilty of murder go to trial still saying they are innocent, why would BC be any different?

LE still casing the neighborhood is IMO to show NO ONE saw NC jogging like BC states she did. The other reason is possilbe they would love to have someone identify a vehicle driven by BC to the dump site.

Mt3K,

The September 22 hearing is for the motion concerning the psych evaluation only, not a revisit of the custody issue.

[momto3kids]

Mt3K,

The September 22 hearing is for the motion concerning the psych evaluation only, not a revisist of the custody issue.


Thanks RC...I thought they would do this all in 1 hearing.

Are you saying they get the results before the hearing for custody and get to hash it out before hand? IDK if this is best to know the results before the hearing. IMO it could tip the scale, and maybe not in favor of the Rentz's. In my eyes I would rather have it all presented on the same day with testimony so the judge gets the entire pkg all in 1 day.

Now, if it does come back with some serious issues pertaining to BC are you thinking the Oct 13 hearing will just be behind closed doors, with no testimony needed?

[raisincharlie]

Sorry, RC, but the manner in which you asked the questions, followed by your statement of "I see." led me to believe that they weren't REALLY questions, but that words were being put into my mouth.

I hope SS doesn't mind me quoting her, but this post answers your questions better than I can say it:



I'll add that I do not necessarily think the conferences after Nancy's death was declared a homicide should have been disallowed. I never said that. I just thought those particular pressers were odd in that the floor was yielded to the family who didn't take questions about the crime but about Nancy as a person.

I apologize if I've offended you in some way RC. Just discussing the case here, like everyone else.


I'm pretty simple - you tell me something is not typical or odd - I am going to ask questions. If you are going to tell me I am untruthful - then I will either admit so - if I am, or question you if I think not. Here's my wrong -I said "pretty much stopped" which obviously to some means stopped. I should have said over 3 days the family said nothing on one day, answered media questions on the second, and provided details of memorial events on the third - my wrong.

Had the floor been given to the family to talk about the crime - that would have been extremely odd and definitely should not have been allowed, and in this case was not allowed. I will repeat, this started as a missing persons case that ended very badly, but that does not mean the families should be given the cold shoulder by LE after a change in the case status has been determined.

I do not find anything odd about the family being given time after LE was done with their thing to respond to the press if they wished, to talk about Nancy, to even tell the children were okay and to announce memorial services planned. I do not find it odd this occurred after an LE presser, while everyone was already assembled. As to LE providing this, they merely left the podium after they had their say - they merely allowed it but within guidelines - no comment about the investigation or crime. LE also provides officers to escort them about, help them obtain appropriate resources, lodging, mental assistance and grief counsulling if needed. This happens all the time in missing persons cases - which is what this began as. This treatment by LE is not uncommon or odd or even atypical. Brad could have done the same things, he obviously chose not to for his own reasons, there is nothing odd or atypical about it. Check out some other current cases - it is obvious it is a common occurance - don't take my word for it.

[momto3kids]

I have also noticed the spotlights on in the back of his home. I also noticed how he pulled all the blinds and 3 of the windows upstairs he has the top half open to be able to look out. The bottom half of the window are shut tight.

I have seen BC at home outside not too long ago in his garage.

Need to make a change to this post from yesterday...going to Crossroads last night the 3 window blinds upstairs are now closed tight.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks RC...I thought they would do this all in 1 hearing.

Are you saying they get the results before the hearing for custody and get to hash it out before hand? IDK if this is best to know the results before the hearing. IMO it could tip the scale, and maybe not in favor of the Rentz's. In my eyes I would rather have it all presented on the same day with testimony so the judge gets the entire pkg all in 1 day.

Now, if it does come back with some serious issues pertaining to BC are you thinking the Oct 13 hearing will just be behind closed doors, with no testimony needed?

Were it me - I would want the results before the hearing of the 16th - no surprises during the hearing. I have no idea really how the October hearing will play - in terms of the parties settling before hand or a real hearing with actual testimony. I guess that aspect will be very dependent on the status of the murder case at that time, and possibly dependent on the results of the psych evaluation if a judge has ordered it.

[momto3kids]

Were it me - I would want the results before the hearing of the 16th - no surprises during the hearing. I have no idea really how the October hearing will play - in terms of the parties settling before hand or a real hearing with actual testimony. I guess that aspect will be very dependent on the status of the murder case at that time, and possibly dependent on the results of the psych evaluation if a judge has ordered it.


Can BC be made to take the evaluation? IMO he could make the Rentz's prove he wasn't fit. I am thinking along the lines of court cases where the plaintiff has to prove the defendent is guilty. (in this case not emotionally stable)

We have seen NC friends affidavits and none showed child abuse, but some possible emotional disturbance in Bella.

We know he is going to say he was doing the best he could to further his education for possible pay increase, provided for his family and became engaged with the family once he got his MBA.

On the other side of the scale, if NC family does have evidence to a suicide attempt and he did speak about it in front of them at Christmas 2007, that is strongly in their favor.

IDK..I just know I don't want to be in either persons shoes at this time.

[raisincharlie]

Can BC be made to take the evaluation? IMO he could make the Rentz's prove he wasn't fit. I am thinking along the lines of court cases where the plaintiff has to prove the defendent is guilty. (in this case not emotionally stable)

We have seen NC friends affidavits and none showed child abuse, but some possible emotional disturbance in Bella.

We know he is going to say he was doing the best he could to further his education for possible pay increase, provided for his family and became engaged with the family once he got his MBA.

On the other side of the scale, if NC family does have evidence to a suicide attempt and he did speak about it in front of them at Christmas 2007, that is strongly in their favor.

IDK..I just know I don't want to be in either persons shoes at this time.

If a judge orders BC to submit to a psych evaluation then failure to do so would result in contempt charges. I suppose he could weigh the consequences and determine what he should do if a judge orders it. I would think a refusal to comply with a judge's order would put him at an immediate disadvantage. This is also a civil matter - the standard of proof is much lower than that required in a criminal case, something along the lines of is it more or less likely the event occurred. So I suppose if 5 people say something occurred and one person says it did not - which is more likely the truth - the 5 or the 1?

I hope I am never in any of the shoes represented in this matter.

[RaleighNC]

I still think that Flower Child is RIGHT ON.

Her business would have been easily run under the radar. She could have set up a bank account - you do not need to be a US citizen to open a bank account. She could have started to establish some credit, etc. All of this could have been done without Brad's knowledge. Shopping and providing fashion advice for friends and being paid to do so is not like she was bidding on government contracts and needed minority owned business status and an EIN.

Also - there was a lot of mention of Java Jive or whatever coffee house that was local. Since I don't go to those places - someone will have to indulge me - aren't they obscenely expensive? if you are struggling to feed your family with the paltry allowance your scrooge husband is giving you - would you be buying $5 lattes? Was there also not a mention of a drink being named after one of the girls? My guess is that honor is reserved for regulars.

Now- we all have our things that we spend money on that others might not understand, but when things get tough, it's pretty easy to figure out what stuff is fairly easy to cut out.

Perhaps she was controlled at one point, but based on everything that has been stated as fact, as well as the hiring of one of the best divorce attorneys around, her empowerment gained through her friends, her ability to vacation with her family, with friends, and her public dressing down of Brad - she was getting stronger, more self sufficient and had support.

I believe that it is possible that this eventual loss of control, and the fact that she was no longer meek, mild and willing to take it from Brad, and she was not going to leave the marriage without fighting for HER FAIR SHARE, as well as the childrens', well, I think this ultimately led to her murder.

[Deduction]

First of all, I'll say that like everyone else, I have no idea if he is really guilty of anything. The statistics don't look good for him and the cops obviously consider him as at least one suspect in the crime, that much is clear.

That being said, it seems extremely presumptuous for folks to be saying what they would do in terms of memorial services if they were in Brad's position and they were actually innocent. I've never had my wife's partially clothed body found on the side of the road and had everyone assume that I had killed her. So, I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what I would do.

My gut reaction is that whatever I did would not involve TV cameras. And as long as I had any control over what happened in my children's lives, their life would also not involve any TV cameras.

In fact, I'm sure that this is not a popular opinion here, but I found those news conferences that Nancy's family participated in after her body was found to be very strange and somewhat inappropriate. The Cary police chief called two news conferences where she said absolutely nothing, but then turned the floor over to the family to talk about Nancy and then to talk about her children. In what way is it the role of the police to call news conferences for this type of thing? Do they host press conferences for families of all victims of violent crimes?

Great Post!!!! I agree completly.

[cygnusx1]

Great Post!!!! I agree completly.

+1

The Rentz's holding a press conference on their own at a location they secure and inviting LE is one thing. LE hosting the PC in a town facility, inviting the family, and saying "We don't have anything to say. Here's the family..." is completely inappropriate.

[fran]

IF the only trips Brad Cooper made to the grocery store the morning hours of July 12, the day Nancy went missing, were the ones mentioned in his affidavits and I understand to LE, then why would he need to obtain copies of the grocery store surveillance cameras?:rolleyes:

Could it be that this educated person who plans his every move, had FORGOTTEN about the cameras and actually gone to the store BEFORE daylight? Could his FIRST or ONLY visit to the store that morning been at just after 4:00 a.m. and the only purchase be laundry detergent? What would be the implication of this difference of the NOT suspects embellishment of the mornings movements?:eek:

Just wonderin'
;)
fran

PS...Oh, and just FWIW, MANY NOT suspects who later are arrested for a crime such as this, at FIRST offer cooperation with LE until they LAWYER UP! fran

PPS.....Oh, and ALSO, doncha' know the prisons are full of innocent men? :waitasec:Just ask 'em!



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1175519.html

Bradley Cooper's attorneys requested surveillance video from the grocery store Bradley Cooper said he visited the morning his wife disappeared. They also have asked to question the medical examiner about how Nancy Cooper died; the autopsy is not yet completed.

[Star12]

I'm thinking it's the hearing on the MOTION for the psych eval that will be heard on Sept 22. Then the eval will be done. Usually takes more than one visit to do an eval. Testing is done as well as face-to-face by the evaluator. Then the eval will be written up. Good chance the whole thing may not be wrapped up by the October 13 custody hearing, which would then be continued.

Unless the judge orders the eval to be done, BC is under no obligation to have it done. The motion has been out there for a while, not ruled on at the settlement meeting, so now TS is asking that the date for the hearing on the motion be Sept. 22.

[fran]

I still think that Flower Child is RIGHT ON.

Her business would have been easily run under the radar. She could have set up a bank account - you do not need to be a US citizen to open a bank account. She could have started to establish some credit, etc. All of this could have been done without Brad's knowledge. Shopping and providing fashion advice for friends and being paid to do so is not like she was bidding on government contracts and needed minority owned business status and an EIN.

Also - there was a lot of mention of Java Jive or whatever coffee house that was local. Since I don't go to those places - someone will have to indulge me - aren't they obscenely expensive? if you are struggling to feed your family with the paltry allowance your scrooge husband is giving you - would you be buying $5 lattes? Was there also not a mention of a drink being named after one of the girls? My guess is that honor is reserved for regulars.

Now- we all have our things that we spend money on that others might not understand, but when things get tough, it's pretty easy to figure out what stuff is fairly easy to cut out.

Perhaps she was controlled at one point, but based on everything that has been stated as fact, as well as the hiring of one of the best divorce attorneys around, her empowerment gained through her friends, her ability to vacation with her family, with friends, and her public dressing down of Brad - she was getting stronger, more self sufficient and had support.

I believe that it is possible that this eventual loss of control, and the fact that she was no longer meek, mild and willing to take it from Brad, and she was not going to leave the marriage without fighting for HER FAIR SHARE, as well as the childrens', well, I think this ultimately led to her murder.

I believe you're right on!

The most dangerous time for an abuse victim, is when they're attempting to severe the relationship.

Domestic abuse is ALL about CONTROL!

JMHO
fran

[Deduction]

Tonight my husband brought up a good point that I had not thought of....

By pushing for the psychiatric test as NC's family is, if it proves BC does have some psychological issues, then IMO K&B are going to jump all over it in their defense for BC if he gets charged with murder. Should we be handing them this on a silver platter?


That was one of the first things I thought of when they asked for it originally.

[ncnative]

Mom2three...I have to laugh at you. You noticed the upstairs blinds being closed on the back side of Brad Cooper's home in the last few days. I noticed that about 2 days ago.

Are we neighbors? Ha ha. We are probably riding past each other daily. Although I think you once mentioned that you don't live in this neighborhood (Lochmere)?

Tell you what. You put a Mom2Three WS bumper sticker on your car and I'll put NCNative WS on mine. We'll toot at each other when we pass by. :D

Do you know if there actually is a camera at the HSprings/CPkwy intersection, and if it is working? I don't go in that direction often. I'd say they need one there. Kids used to drag race on the Cary Parkway late at night, and on Lochmere Drive as well. I don't notice the drag race noises any more, especially in the last year or so.

[Topsail Girl]

Mornin' everyone. ncnative you and mom MUST be neighbors and just don't realize it yet. It's a small world. I met people from Michelle Youngs case that I went to school with and lived in the same town and never even knew it till I met them on the boards. :)

[fran]

+1

The Rentz's holding a press conference on their own at a location they secure and inviting LE is one thing. LE hosting the PC in a town facility, inviting the family, and saying "We don't have anything to say. Here's the family..." is completely inappropriate.

I know we the general public get frustrated when LE holds a press conference and says 'nothing new.' I've seen it a hundred times. Then you ask yourself, 'they why are you even having this presser?'

Then when they allow the family to get up and they talk about 'personal things regarding the victim,' many may think that's 'inappropriate.'

IMHO, I can't even imagine how these every-day people are able to suddenly deal with the onslaught of sometimes hundreds of reporters, cameras, etc., suddenly being in their face and scrutinizing their every move. It must be a shock to their system. Most investigations may have a reporter or two approach for a newspaper article, but to be followed every time you open a door and a microphone thrust at you,..........well,...........I would find it annoying.

IMO, LE did the best they could to keep the public informed of the up to date info, without jeopradizing the investigation.

OTOH, once it was deemed a murder, many people were concerned about the family and most especially about the little ones. Then there's also the dynamics of the shocked family losing their loved one and the hurtful words being thrown around. Yes, even about suspecting the husband of the crime. I'm sure, especially IF he's innocent, this has felt like a nightmare.

This was the only chance for this family to get out that Nancy was a wonderful person and the girls are doing as well as can be expected and that they're the #1 priority of the friends and family. I believe they also got the word out about the memorial services that were going to be held within the next few days. IIRC, there was also a statement to the effect this would be the last presser. (in other words, 'back off now.')

To repeat the old cliche, no one knows how you'd act in this same situation. Everyone grieves in their own way. Just like many are justifying the actions and words of the grieving husband during this time, IMO, the family should be given the same sort of pass.

This is one situation where I would NOT want to find out how I would react.

JMHO
fran

[ncnative]

Does anyone know if Nancy's family were given the opportunity to go into the Cooper's home after her death, say, to get the children's things? It seems that if my daughter were missing, I'd immediately get to her home and join in with the husband and grandchildren to help out. I might stay in a hotel, but I'd go to the home too.

I wonder if she kept a blog/diary? She probably emailed her twin sister about things she'd never tell anyone else. I'm thinking of these possibilities that LE could've looked into.

[DB in FV]

The psych. eval. could actually be a very interesting test. If he wants his kids, and passes the test to prove he's stable, would he then be able to claim psychological problems if he eventually went to trial for the murder**?

The results of a psychological test could not work to his advantage in both situations.

**I understand that he hasn't been charged with any crime. The "if"'s in my post are big ones. But, he definitely seems to be the #1 target of LE.

[fran]

Does anyone know if Nancy's family were given the opportunity to go into the Cooper's home after her death, say, to get the children's things? It seems that if my daughter were missing, I'd immediately get to her home and join in with the husband and grandchildren to help out. I might stay in a hotel, but I'd go to the home too.

I wonder if she kept a blog/diary? She probably emailed her twin sister about things she'd never tell anyone else. I'm thinking of these possibilities that LE could've looked into.

It's hard to tell IF he would have allowed Nancy's family 'free access' to obtain possessions of Nancy's or the girl's.

On one hand we've heard he's not confrontational and like with the pressers, would agree verbally, but at the first opportune moment when not face to face, opt out without having to answer questions on 'why?'

OTOH, abuse is about control and we've heard rumors Brad was big on control, ie the money situation and sudden demands Nancy change her plans because he wanted to see the girls ASAP. So, he MAY have told them he'd get whatever they wanted, IF he wanted to let them have it.

I guess my answer would be 'I don't know.' We'll most likely have to wait until everything comes out, IF it ever does.

JMHO
fran

[ncnative]

Topsail Girl, it's very scary that Michelle Young's high school pictures have another girl who was murdered, unrelated to MY. As well, just to add to the eerieness, my adult son is dating a woman from the area on Long Island where MY came from. Well, I guess that's eerie. Maybe not. Then, my distant memory tells of another murder of a girl who was an actress (from MY's town) and murdered. I may be all churned up in the brain department. Just adding to the small world tidbit.

When I ride past the Cooper's home almost daily on my way to here and there (mostly physical therapy), their back yard and home feel "dead", not a part of everything else. Normalcy is gone.

Sometimes I think that husband and I being oldfarts who are almost predictable and all, is a good thing, considering what some folks live through daily. This murder refreshed my perspective on our 35 year marriage, the fun we've had and still have, how we do things together, even if it's just going out to Home Depot together or out to eat, and how much fun the little things are. We had good times with the kids as they grew up and life is still fun! Little by little.

Sure, we ran into big deals like serious illnesses between the two of us, me despising his mom and how she tried to meddle in our lives for decades til she died (I didn't let her control our lives YAY!!), and other not so perfect things in life that came along. How sad that some folks have the same 24 hrs. a day and it ends up unhappy or they end up in a heap on the side of the road where the vultures await.

[raisincharlie]

I know we the general public get frustrated when LE holds a press conference and says 'nothing new.' I've seen it a hundred times. Then you ask yourself, 'they why are you even having this presser?'

Then when they allow the family to get up and they talk about 'personal things regarding the victim,' many may think that's 'inappropriate.'

IMHO, I can't even imagine how these every-day people are able to suddenly deal with the onslaught of sometimes hundreds of reporters, cameras, etc., suddenly being in their face and scrutinizing their every move. It must be a shock to their system. Most investigations may have a reporter or two approach for a newspaper article, but to be followed every time you open a door and a microphone thrust at you,..........well,...........I would find it annoying.

IMO, LE did the best they could to keep the public informed of the up to date info, without jeopradizing the investigation.

OTOH, once it was deemed a murder, many people were concerned about the family and most especially about the little ones. Then there's also the dynamics of the shocked family losing their loved one and the hurtful words being thrown around. Yes, even about suspecting the husband of the crime. I'm sure, especially IF he's innocent, this has felt like a nightmare.

This was the only chance for this family to get out that Nancy was a wonderful person and the girls are doing as well as can be expected and that they're the #1 priority of the friends and family. I believe they also got the word out about the memorial services that were going to be held within the next few days. IIRC, there was also a statement to the effect this would be the last presser. (in other words, 'back off now.')

To repeat the old cliche, no one knows how you'd act in this same situation. Everyone grieves in their own way. Just like many are justifying the actions and words of the grieving husband during this time, IMO, the family should be given the same sort of pass.

This is one situation where I would NOT want to find out how I would react.

JMHO
fran

Excellent points Fran.

[Topsail Girl]

First off congrats to you and to Mr. ncnative for 35 years!!!! :clap: If you've made it that long it's obvious to me that the two of you look at your relationship as a partnership. Things good and bad come and go but together you weather the storms and enjoy the good times. You are committed to working through problems whether they are health or financial or whatever. I hope to one day be able to post that I've been married for 35 years. Right now I'm working on year 12. I never take my hubby for granted. I can sleep at night and know he loves me and would never hurt me.

Sadly for Michelle and for Nancy their marriages were not partnerships but more like dictatorships. Brad and Jason are cut of the same cloth in my opinion and I believe we'll see the similarities between these two monsters grow as more and more comes out. Their controlling behavior, their ME ME ME attitudes, the affairs, the spending...

Nancy and Michelle however seem to be quite different. Nancy was the stay at home mom who knew her marriage was in shambles and wanted out. She loved her daughters and I belive she stayed with Brad much longer than she wanted to becauseof the girls. (Also the pass port situation which I think Brad did intentionally). Michelle was the doting mom but she was a go-getter in the work place. She loved her family and her career. She was willing to cut her hours back to be home with Rylan and Cassie but still wanted to work. Financially she may have been forced to work. She had no idea just how bad things in her marriage were. I know she knew trouble was a-brewing because she sought counseling. However that beautiful woman had no idea just how evil her husband really was.

[Jess]

http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1021081



A month after former Edmonton-area woman Nancy Cooper was murdered in North Carolina police say they are making "good progress" in identifying her killer. Carey Police Chief Pat Bazemore says: "I want to express my absolute confidence that we will solve this terrible crime and bring the person or persons responsible to justice". Investigators may be waiting for the result of DNA analysis that could point them at a killer. Meanwhile, Nancy Cooper's family here in the Edmonton area has re-applied to have her husband Brad forced to undergo a psychological assessment. A hearing on the new application will be held on September 22nd...weeks before a custody hearing resumes for Cooper's two daughters Bella and Katie.

Local Edmonton radio station


This is from a local radio station. I have not read the statement I bolded anywhere else ?? Did I miss that ?

[raisincharlie]

http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1021081



A month after former Edmonton-area woman Nancy Cooper was murdered in North Carolina police say they are making "good progress" in identifying her killer. Carey Police Chief Pat Bazemore says: "I want to express my absolute confidence that we will solve this terrible crime and bring the person or persons responsible to justice". Investigators may be waiting for the result of DNA analysis that could point them at a killer. Meanwhile, Nancy Cooper's family here in the Edmonton area has re-applied to have her husband Brad forced to undergo a psychological assessment. A hearing on the new application will be held on September 22nd...weeks before a custody hearing resumes for Cooper's two daughters Bella and Katie.

Local Edmonton radio station


This is from a local radio station. I have not read the statement I bolded anywhere else ?? Did I miss that ?

Don't think you missed it. It does not seem to be included in the N & O or WRAL articles. But it makes sense.

[EntreNous]

+1

The Rentz's holding a press conference on their own at a location they secure and inviting LE is one thing. LE hosting the PC in a town facility, inviting the family, and saying "We don't have anything to say. Here's the family..." is completely inappropriate.

Welcome to WS Cygnusx1. Is your nic of the star variety or "A Farewell To Kings" variety?

My nic is of the "Permanent Waves" variety.

[ncsu95]

Oh, I know you didn't mention abuse in your post. But that's MY point.

Money control WAS part of the abuse.

No matter what Nancy did, Brad overpowered her through threats or intimidation. She was beaten down. She may have had SOME freedom, but IMO, it was most likely only when Brad allowed it.

Nancy was also from a different country and her residency status was directly tied to Brad's job and his legal status. Nancy was trapped. She was trapped in a foreign country.

I don't believe any or all of the solutions that U.S. citizens could come up with or available to them apply here. I think this is something, at least for me, I don't know the procedures. Imagine having to deal with the volatile marriage day to day and know that just the wrong move and you could be deported, minus your children. She must have been terrified.

Nancy was Brad's victim and now she's dead.

I do not know how much of the marriage woes were Nancy's fault. But the fact that she's dead and one survived, I tend to think that she was out of her league. That's just me...

By all accounts Nancy's friends all say she was a really nice persone, etc. Her NOT loving husband said all sorts of NOT nice things about her. Of course, IMO, that's because he's trying to cover his bu** and the allegations of abuse which point to him as the perp.

Until there's an arrest, it runs 50/50. We'll just agree to disagree.

JMHO
fran

PS....And I DO believe Brad had EVERYTHING to do with Nancy being successful in business or not. HE held the purse strings and he used it to his FULL ADVANTAGE. Even to forcing Nancy and the kids to eat at friends. Yeah, he was a really indulgent husband. NOT...fran


You really do come to some strong conclusions. Did you know these people? She certainly didn't seem controlled to me. She visited family regularly (most controllers isolate the abused party from family and friends). The had a lot of friends. She went on lots of vacations without her husband. She went jogging with friends. She stayed out late with friends. So he cut off credit card access, which is a good thing considering the amount of debt they had...and he took the kids passports. They are his kids too....why is that such a bad thing? I wouldn't want my wife taking my kids back to Canada where I would never see them. It's sounds like all of these Lochmere ladies could be living on Wisteria Lane.

[sunflowers]

[QUOTE=fran;2492701]IF the only trips Brad Cooper made to the grocery store the morning hours of July 12, the day Nancy went missing, were the ones mentioned in his affidavits and I understand to LE, then why would he need to obtain copies of the grocery store surveillance cameras?:rolleyes:

Could it be that this educated person who plans his every move, had FORGOTTEN about the cameras and actually gone to the store BEFORE daylight? Could his FIRST or ONLY visit to the store that morning been at just after 4:00 a.m. and the only purchase be laundry detergent? What would be the implication of this difference of the NOT suspects embellishment of the mornings movements?:eek:

Just wonderin'
;)
fran

i'm figuring they want what's on the cameras so they can plan their defense. lawyers need to know EXACTLY what the facts are that can be confirmed through cameras, receips, etc.

it is curious, though, that somebody--no matter how stressed they are---wouldn't know that all of the grocery stores in this area have surveillance cameras. when you walk into this particular HT, you see yourself walking in on the cameras & the image of yourself is front & center.

i used to go there a lot late at night, & only the entrance on the Kildare Farm side was open after a certain hour. Also, back then (over 3 years ago), there was a security guard present in the middle of the night. When I asked about it, a HT employee told me it was just a security measure for their employees & customers who might want to be escorted out to their car.

apparently there isn't a security person anymore, though, or somebody (mom etc) would have mentioned it.

but, it's puzzling that--assuming this early am HT trip is true--BC wouldn't have grabbed something in addition to detergent w bleach so that he would have a cover (have to have diapers, etc). And the cameras & signs about the cameras are everywhere---so if BC did the 4 or so a.m. trip, he wasn't thinking & went back to cover his tracks.

When LE found Nancy's body, they declared she had been murdered. So there will be info in the autopsy that will be extremely helpful to BC's attorneys in terms of how Nancy died.

puzzling, though, that a smart person--no matter how stressed---wouldn't throw in a potentially necessary item like diapers or milk, etc, if he was buying detergent w bleach "to cover his tracks".

[Anderson]

I know we the general public get frustrated when LE holds a press conference and says 'nothing new.' I've seen it a hundred times. Then you ask yourself, 'they why are you even having this presser?'

Then when they allow the family to get up and they talk about 'personal things regarding the victim,' many may think that's 'inappropriate.'

IMHO, I can't even imagine how these every-day people are able to suddenly deal with the onslaught of sometimes hundreds of reporters, cameras, etc., suddenly being in their face and scrutinizing their every move. It must be a shock to their system. Most investigations may have a reporter or two approach for a newspaper article, but to be followed every time you open a door and a microphone thrust at you,..........well,...........I would find it annoying.

IMO, LE did the best they could to keep the public informed of the up to date info, without jeopradizing the investigation.

OTOH, once it was deemed a murder, many people were concerned about the family and most especially about the little ones. Then there's also the dynamics of the shocked family losing their loved one and the hurtful words being thrown around. Yes, even about suspecting the husband of the crime. I'm sure, especially IF he's innocent, this has felt like a nightmare.

This was the only chance for this family to get out that Nancy was a wonderful person and the girls are doing as well as can be expected and that they're the #1 priority of the friends and family. I believe they also got the word out about the memorial services that were going to be held within the next few days. IIRC, there was also a statement to the effect this would be the last presser. (in other words, 'back off now.')

To repeat the old cliche, no one knows how you'd act in this same situation. Everyone grieves in their own way. Just like many are justifying the actions and words of the grieving husband during this time, IMO, the family should be given the same sort of pass.

This is one situation where I would NOT want to find out how I would react.

JMHO
fran

I want to clarify something. My original post was a response to the idea that if Brad attended the funeral, then he would have contributed to a "media circus". I actually think that by not attending, he contributed to the media story surrounding the murder; this fuelled controversy. The media responds to drama. It has to be a good story. That is why some victims are hardly reported at all. My MAIN point is that it may have been a good public relations tool for Brad to attend the funeral. It may have looked better for him to be supportive on that day, rather than oppositional ("Brad Fights Back"; I can't find the link anymore to this story that was reported on the the day of the funeral). So, my points were mainly related to the media story and public relations, rather than grieving. Of course this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he did it . . .

I agree that people have a right to grieve in different ways, as I have said on a previous post. The comment that I made yesterday was a response to the other poster's opinion, and I can see that I should not have said what I think Brad should have done. I have already apologized for that in an earlier thread. :blushing: I honestly did not mean to offend anyone and it was only my own opinion.

[EntreNous]

The thing is none of us can say what a guilty man would or wouldn't think of to do. Just nerves alone can cause the best of us to do certain things and forget about other things that would seem obvious to a calmed person. The only thing I would think is that they wouldn't be thinking all that clearly. Since I do think one would go into a kind of "panic mode", I think their actions would be inconsistent unless they're some calm, cool hitman.

What makes me think this is when my mother died suddenly. I could remember to do so many things in those first few hours and days. I put her funeral together, made all the phone calls to notify family, etc. But I could not remember to shut my car door. I went to a shop to buy a dress for her funeral, came out and there was the door standing wide open. I went home to take care of some household things, when next I left the house I found the car door wide open. There were many more basic things that, out of stress, wasn't thinking of when ordinarily I would have, but I won't bore you with the details. The point is stress can do strange things to a person.

[fran]

You really do come to some strong conclusions. Did you know these people? She certainly didn't seem controlled to me. She visited family regularly (most controllers isolate the abused party from family and friends). The had a lot of friends. She went on lots of vacations without her husband. She went jogging with friends. She stayed out late with friends. So he cut off credit card access, which is a good thing considering the amount of debt they had...and he took the kids passports. They are his kids too....why is that such a bad thing? I wouldn't want my wife taking my kids back to Canada where I would never see them. It's sounds like all of these Lochmere ladies could be living on Wisteria Lane.

Yes, I do have strong conclusions and no I didn't know these people. My opinions are based on reading the hundreds of pages of Websleuths and solved and unsolved cases just like this one. OH, and from watching a few friends and relatives in like marriages that had different endings.

One common thing I've noticed in a large number of these cases, is the wife (or abused, because it is sometimes men) has MANY friends and often times the husband is more reserved or more secretive. The 'secretive' ones usually turn out to be that way because in addition to the abuse and contol, there's the 'side salads' they've enjoyed, quite often throughout the entire marriage.

There's been cases where the family and friends of the murdered, abused spouse had NO IDEA there was abuse going on behind those closed doors. On the outside, the abuser portrays a happy and loving picture of a dedicated spouse. But once that door slams shut, their personality changes into the controlling jealous lover. IF you happened to utter anything either before or after that door shuts they disagree with or embarrasses them in any way, you may have some 'splainin' to do and IF they've already graduated into the physical violence vs just words, you may be left with a bruise or two, IF you're that lucky!

Course, when the anger subsides from the abuser and he's done telling you how this is all 'your fault! See what you made me do?' the honeymoon begins and the cycle is repeated, over and over and over. Mental abuse, games, changing the playing field, is all at the whim of the abuser/controller.

Sure, Nancy appeared to do as she wished. But I'm willing to bet it was only at Brad's discretion. Like the time Nancy was over a friend's with the girls. Brad called Nancy on her cell and suddenly he wanted to see the girls for dinner! and at a location HE had chosen. Nancy had to drop whatever she was doing at the moment and change plans to suit Brad. She took the girls over to a friend's home ASAP................but, ..............wait,..........Brad wasn't there. He left Nancy and the girls sitting out in the car for an hour awaiting his arrival from just down the street or so.

Interesting that Brad had set a time when Nancy could leave and take the girls to Canada and he'd never have to see any of them again. Of course this changed while Nancy was preparing to do as he wished, but in so doing she hired an attorney and drew up 'legal' separation which stated Brad would have to pay various support for the girls, not to mention 8 years of alimony and one of the cars and pay off all of the bills after selling the house and turn over HIS 401K to Nancy. Suddenly he has a change of heart and wants to work on the marriage, but at the SAME TIME almost cuts off support of Nancy and the girls daily expenses. How COINCIDENTAL! not!

Concluding, I'd like to invite anyone reading here, that during this lull in movement in this case, cruise the pages of Websleuths and read the background of many of these 'missing,' 'murdered,' and unsolved cases. IMO, you'll see a lot of parallels with this case. Even for the unsolved, although not arrested or convicted, using common sense, you can LIKELY determine who the perp is. The only problem usually is, there is no {proof}, OR the LE in the area isn't doing their j o b, and who only knows why (meaning, what link the perp may have locally).

This is just my opinion,
fran

[fran]

i'm figuring they want what's on the cameras so they can plan their defense. lawyers need to know EXACTLY what the facts are that can be confirmed through cameras, receips, etc.

it is curious, though, that somebody--no matter how stressed they are---wouldn't know that all of the grocery stores in this area have surveillance cameras. when you walk into this particular HT, you see yourself walking in on the cameras & the image of yourself is front & center.

i used to go there a lot late at night, & only the entrance on the Kildare Farm side was open after a certain hour. Also, back then (over 3 years ago), there was a security guard present in the middle of the night. When I asked about it, a HT employee told me it was just a security measure for their employees & customers who might want to be escorted out to their car.

apparently there isn't a security person anymore, though, or somebody (mom etc) would have mentioned it.

but, it's puzzling that--assuming this early am HT trip is true--BC wouldn't have grabbed something in addition to detergent w bleach so that he would have a cover (have to have diapers, etc). And the cameras & signs about the cameras are everywhere---so if BC did the 4 or so a.m. trip, he wasn't thinking & went back to cover his tracks.

When LE found Nancy's body, they declared she had been murdered. So there will be info in the autopsy that will be extremely helpful to BC's attorneys in terms of how Nancy died.

puzzling, though, that a smart person--no matter how stressed---wouldn't throw in a potentially necessary item like diapers or milk, etc, if he was buying detergent w bleach "to cover his tracks".

IMO, that's part of the point. These guys always think they can get away with it because they've thought of everything, unlike the thousands of perps in similar situations did and got caught.

That is, they think of everything UNTIL they realize they FORGOT something that can possibly LINK them to the crime.

IMO, the more evidence LE MAY find of one covering their tracks AFTER the fact, is MORE EVIDENCE that they in fact did that crime.

There's no school on 'how to commit murder.' ;)

JMHO
fran

PS.....ONE crime such as this, the perp returned to the scene of the crime a number of times.....(typical murderer reaction, per LE).......he didN'T think of LE tailing him.....

Another crime that is still in the investigation stages, the get-a-way car of the unknown perp, was rented using a credit card of the estranged husband who was to meet in a few days with almost ex in which he was going to have to give her a mil dollar$. The unfortunate thing for the husband, is not only that HIS credit card was used for the get-a-way car, but the card was found in his wallet when he was arrested for another crime that his wife was going to allegedly turn States evidence of.

Another crime the husband thought he'd get away with the crime because he said he didn't do it, he ran 1000's of miles from the scene, and he returned the weapon to his inlaws enclosed gun cabinet before he left the country. But, IIRC, his finger prints were on the weapon....

They ALWAYS believe they thought of everything, until they find out they did NOT.........

PPS......then there's the pages of unsolved.......:(

[fran]

I want to clarify something. My original post was a response to the idea that if Brad attended the funeral, then he would have contributed to a "media circus". I actually think that by not attending, he contributed to the media story surrounding the murder; this fuelled controversy. The media responds to drama. It has to be a good story. That is why some victims are hardly reported at all. My MAIN point is that it may have been a good public relations tool for Brad to attend the funeral. It may have looked better for him to be supportive on that day, rather than oppositional ("Brad Fights Back"; I can't find the link anymore to this story that was reported on the the day of the funeral). So, my points were mainly related to the media story and public relations, rather than grieving. Of course this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he did it . . .

I agree that people have a right to grieve in different ways, as I have said on a previous post. The comment that I made yesterday was a response to the other poster's opinion, and I can see that I should not have said what I think Brad should have done. I have already apologized for that in an earlier thread. :blushing: I honestly did not mean to offend anyone and it was only my own opinion.

You don't need to apologize for anything and I don't even recall who or where the original discussion began about the press conferences. That is what I was talking about. LE having press conferences and the family talking to the press.

Of course anyone could do whatever they want when their loved one dies and no one knows how that person feels IF they've never been in that exact, same position.

Whatever way any of us have lost a loved one, knows how we would react only after the fact. I could compare how I would react, but it wouldn't really be apples/apples, more like apples/oranges because there's that thing called murder as the COD and the media frenzy surrounding the case.

I just KNOW, that when there's a death, whether untimely or not, there is only ONE chance to say your final good-byes. IF it were me, I know how I would react and it wouldn't be based on opinions, or other's feelings, but my final moment to express my true love.......and say my final farewell to my other half.

You're ri