Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #17

[Claycat]

The guy on another forum said this is what they did when they tested his gun today. He said they fired the weapon twice and kept the bullets and casings for comparison with the ones from the crime scene. He said he was present while they did this.

[Tom'sGirl]

The guy on another forum said this is what they did when they tested his gun today. He said they fired the weapon twice and kept the bullets and casings for comparison with the ones from the crime scene. He said he was present while they did this.
Link to the above info.
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p479#c11959

[FlowerChild]

Let's see what we do know.
We know Joe was at the crime scene because he went out to eat after and told everyone.
We know Joe was the media contact for the Placker family.
We know ONE POI witness did not come foward until Wed (after the murders on Sun) and LE said he had a good "reason" was checked out and was credible.
We know the POI sketch was not released until AFTER the funerals on Friday.
We know Joe has a criminal history and has been involved in drugs, assaults and firearms violations. He did spend time in prison - as did Taylors OTHER Paschal Uncle Tony - who got out most recently in May 2008.

What is rumor but is being repeated by many people locally (and yes LE is aware of these allegations).
Joe was the Wed POI witness who saw the girls walking home minutes before they were killed.
Joe was at the Placker home when the girls were killed, but the Plackers (Peter and Vicky) were not.
We have no idea if Joe was out at the crime scene when the 911 call was being made. He could have been, but with Rose arriving, a small child at the scene and much confusion he might not have been standing right there when Vicky was on the telephone. They were 1/4 mile from the house at that time. There was a lot going on and as we know, we HAVE NOT heard all of the 911 tape and Peter also called but had "difficulty" with the connection. Maybe Vicky ran up (or down) the road with the phone until she got a good signal? She seemed to be yelling at SEVERAL people during the call, no way to know WHO she was talking to or where she was standing/running.

As to the playing of the 911 call NOBODY had heard the call until the day LE played it for the media. I am sure it did make Joe "ill" - he saw the scene, he had to be moved by the tape knowing what the situation was at the time and what Vicky and Peter were looking at. But it doesn't mean he wasn't present when the call was made initially. Joe was giving his reaction to HEARING the 911 tape for the 1st time, nobody asked him if he was there, or if he remembered the scene as the call was being made. Joe answered the question he was asked - and you'll note he did not elaborate at all - and until the call was released - nobody had ANY idea it was VICKY on the tape - uhmm, nobody ever ASKED Vicky if she was there either - and taadaa, turns out she WAS - along with a unidentified CHILD. Nobody has ever ASKED Joe Mosher if he was there (or when he got there) - at least not that has been made public....hmm.

I have a LIST of questions I wish SOMEBODY (Hello Nancy, Greta, et al) would ask Joe Mosher, Vicky, Peter and Rose. It'll never happen, but maybe it SHOULD.

My Opinion

[Claycat]

Link to the above info.
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/weleetka-ok/TOJFJV92HAR4RS395/p479#c11959

Thanks, TG! When I tried it, I put the c in front of the number sign.

:doh:

[Albert18]

The last time Greta talked about this case she appeared to be disgusted with it. I assume if she comes back to the case she will cover it like she covered the Natalie Holloway case, talking about the crime and the quality of the investigation. That really may be the next step where the focus is on the quality of the investigation, not the crime itself.

Regarding Rosser and the 911 call, it isn't that he lied, it's that he had the details wrong. Peter didn't call 911, Vickey did. Attempting to call 911 isn't calling 911. This is a detail.

No age on the white truck, again a detail.

The media thinks the girls left at 5pm, Rosser has stated 4:30, again a detail.

The POI story is so bad a lot of people don't think the POI is real. If you look at the details, the POI story doesn't make sense yet Rosser apparently doesn't get it. Is this just another detail he is oblivious to?

[GetSmart]

Aired June 11, 2008 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0806/11/lkl.01.html
MOSHER: Taylor was a great little girl. She -- I was with her just two weeks ago. We had a family reunion. And she was just a great little girl. She loved animals. She had her -- she owned a horse. She rescued turtles off the highway and wrote her name on them and turned them loose out in the country. You know, there was just things -- and she was smart. She was very smart. She was home schooled at first and then she found that when she moved out there, she started going to the public school. And she was in the top of her class, you know.

KING: Boy.

Jessica, is there in guessing here as to motive?

BROWN: You know, we really do not know. We're looking at anything from a gang initiation to someone just these two girls happened upon, someone making methamphetamine to -- there's all sorts of things. We really don't know. If we had a motive, it would certainly help us. But right now, we have no eyewitnesses. No one even heard the gunshots, as Stacey Cameron was talking about.

So we really don't have much. We do -- we just released today -- now have the fact that we believe two different caliber weapons were used. So that gives us the idea that two people were involved in this. And that really can help us for the fact that one person might be able to come forward and say, hey, you know, this happened and, you know, I want to spill the beans, I want to give up what happened.

And we're hoping at least with the $25,000 reward that is up now, that that might entice some people to come forward who maybe didn't want to get involved before, but now the $25,000 is out there and that might help.

KING: Yes.

[frogjustfrog]

Ok I as re-reading this article interview by Joe.. interesting..
I was trying to read this ...I don't know like it was the first time I had seen it. Hoping I could read something with a different outlook I guess.

Posted by Miss Holmes
http://ww (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66462)w.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66462 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66462)

Trying to cope

http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/200806_A1_20080612_WELEETKA0612p4_package.jpg (http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/200806_A1_20080612_WELEETKA0612p4_package.jpg)



Joe Mosher, an uncle of Taylor, said the two families are still trying to cope with the death of the two girls.

"It's pretty tough for them. We're still trying to find out what happened, because this is tragic — just so tragic," Mosher said. "From what information we've received so far, I got a call from North Carolina of all places, saying there was two guns involved and maybe three people.

"Both families are having a very hard time, really. The people in the community, especially, have done wonders. They have all pulled together and they're helping these families and we appreciate that so much. They are doing a great job of taking care of these families."

One of Taylor's thrills, Mosher said, was rescuing turtles that she found in the road near her home.

"She would take a black magic marker with her and write her name on them then turn them lose. She would rescue them off the highway, roads and such, and bring them out here and turn them loose," he said. "She loved it out here, she totally loved it out here. She loved animals, and had her own horse up here. She had dogs, cats; she loved animals. She was a very bright girl."

Mosher said Taylor had been home-schooled until she moved to Weleetka, where she attended Graham School, a system of about 100 students from pre-kindergarten to 12th grade.

"They moved from Oklahoma City to get away from the violence," he said. "The violence in Oklahoma City is just outrageous so they moved out here to get away from it. And now this happens."

Mosher said Taylor and Skyla were the best of friends, almost inseparable. Taylor would always talk about how Skyla was her best friend and the things they did together, he said.

"They loved each other. Usually, if you saw them out here, they were both together," Mosher said. "One weekend they would be at Taylor's house, the next weekend they would be at Skyla's house."

Mosher said the families have laid their trust in the hands of the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Department and the OSBI to find the killers.

"We all understand that there's only certain information they can release and it's best to release it all at once," he said. "They're doing a good job, and we appreciate that. I'm surprised there hasn't been an arrest yet, but there will be. It might take a little bit but whoever it was, will be caught.

"It's just a really sad thing that this happened and they'll pay their dues; they will pay their dues. Everybody asks if I want to hurt these people. No, I don't want to hurt these people. The people in prison will hurt these people. When these people are caught and they go to prison, that's the end of it. They will pay their dues in prison."


'Sad situation'



Mosher said he believes the killers are from the area because the location was in such a remote area and only someone who lived near Weleetka or in Okfuskee County would know about it.

"It had to have been somebody from this area. Nobody is going to come off the freeway or highway and find this area and be able to get out of here quickly. I think it's somebody in the community who did it and I really feel sorry for them, not only for what they've done to our families, but what they've done to the community," he said. "This community is in shock; they don't know what to think. They don't let their children out by themselves now. At nighttime, you're not going to find a child; everybody is locking their doors at night now. It's a sad situation."

Mosher hopes that once the suspects in the girls' murders are caught, the families and the community might be able to heal. But things will never be the same again, he said.

"It'll take a while. If they get caught today, it's not going to go back tomorrow to the way it used to be. It will never be exactly like it used to be, because people see that this type of crime can happen out here," he said.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080612_11_A1_hOSBIs543824


Thank you for this link, GS. I DO think I read it this time with a different view of things.
This just all gets so confusing. And with LE making it more so..... well, you know.

[FlowerChild]

The last time Greta talked about this case she appeared to be disgusted with it. I assume if she comes back to the case she will cover it like she covered the Natalie Holloway case, talking about the crime and the quality of the investigation. That really may be the next step where the focus is on the quality of the investigation, not the crime itself.

Regarding Rosser and the 911 call, it isn't that he lied, it's that he had the details wrong. Peter didn't call 911, Vickey did. Attempting to call 911 isn't calling 911. This is a detail.

No age on the white truck, again a detail.

The media thinks the girls left at 5pm, Rosser has stated 4:30, again a detail.

The POI story is so bad a lot of people don't think the POI is real. If you look at the details, the POI story doesn't make sense yet Rosser apparently doesn't get it. Is this just another detail he is oblivious to?

But questioning OSBI/Rosser doesn't get us one step closer to the facts. I want the facts, from the families who were THERE! Not Rosser, not the useless PR/Profiler Brown, the FAMILIES. It was THEIR children, they would have noticed things and at least they could possibly provide details we have questions about.

Rosser and Brown are TRAINED to divert questions and give non-answers in a way that SOUNDS like they are answering the questions, but they aren't doing anything but giving rote replies that they have already repeated (with different words) a dozen times in this case. I want Rosser interviewed AFTER we have some facts from the families - put him on the hot seat with 1st hand information from the families. Like I said, I have a list and once we have those answers, then I want somebody like Greta to have a go at Rosser on all the the non-answers and allowing incorrect ASSUMPTIONS to rule this case. I want to know WHO they have talked to and what they found out from them.

I GET that the families don't want their dirty laundry aired in public, but what is more important here, finding a killer or protecting the family members with less than stellar pasts from public attention - about stuff they OBVIOUSLY are guilty of. Once they have made a clean sweep it will give the press some leeway to go after some of the neighbors and other criminal types around the girls HARDER. It's like "well the family told us this...so what about your issues, tell us about how you are NOT possibly involved"?

And for heavens sake, somebody give us a profiler's take on what sort of person shoots a 13 year old girl in the mouth 3 times at close range and then leans down to shoot her in the crotch before he leaves?

I don't want to listen to Rosser and Brown prevaricate thru another interview - I want some hard questions they can't sqirm away from because the interviewer lacks all the facts and accepts clever diversions and non- answers becuase they have no facts to pin them down on.

Like I said...I HAVE QUESTIONS!!!!

My Opinion

[GetSmart]

Flowerchild: And for heavens sake, somebody give us a profiler's take on what sort of person shoots a 13 year old girl in the mouth 3 times at close range and then leans down to shoot her in the crotch before he leaves?



No kidden I really don't recall a case that has not had a profiler's take on it. You are so right. Why hasn't this been done or has it & the public has not been made aware once again....

[YellowDog]

Quote from FC: "And for heavens sake, somebody give us a profiler's take on what sort of person shoots a 13 year old girl in the mouth 3 times at close range and then leans down to shoot her in the crotch before he leaves?" End Quote

Taylor wasn't shot in the mouth according to the autopsy drawings. As far as facial shots, she was shot in the right cheek, the left chin area and above the lips on the left side. Still gross I admit, but not the same as someone putting a gun in someone's mouth and pulling the trigger three times. Also, how do you know someone kneeled down to shoot her in the groin? If they were far enough from the body, they wouldn't have to kneel down to shoot toward the ground and hit her groin area>

[YellowDog]

If Joe Mosher lived in Norman as one poster stated, when did he arrive in Weleetka? Was he staying with the Plackers over the weekend?

[Missing Sarah]

I know, I can't imagine the feelings rushing through Skylas head when she turned and ran, and how could anyone shoot somebody 5 times in the back. I'll be happy once this person is taken off the streets.

[Missing Sarah]

but, how and when is this going to happen. :(

[YellowDog]

I know, I can't imagine the feelings rushing through Skylas head when she turned and ran, and how could anyone shoot somebody 5 times in the back. I'll be happy once this person is taken off the streets.

You and many other people will be happy if that day ever comes. This case is moving at such a snail's pace it seems.

[KeyboardPlayer]

You and many other people will be happy if that day ever comes. This case is moving at such a snail's pace it seems.
It sure does seem that way, YellowDog. But I'm never giving up hope. Justice will be served for these two angels, even if it is years from now (hoping not though)... It took 2 years to catch Coralrose Fullwood's killer, but they got him, so I know in my heart they will eventually solve this one too. Cheers!

[Missing Sarah]

I know, but I honestly think the locals have an eye out for this POI, I'm just not sure why he hasn't been identified. Maybe, he isn't a local, these killers could be in Canada by now or Mexico, who knows

[Missing Sarah]

I can't beleive they are going to bond this crazy Casey out of jail. Lets hope the judge doesn't allow it to happen. Everyone knows she killed her daughter. That family sure likes the media attention.

[frogjustfrog]

I can't beleive they are going to bond this crazy Casey out of jail. Lets hope the judge doesn't allow it to happen. Everyone knows she killed her daughter. That family sure likes the media attention.

I will probably get in trouble for saying this, but it makes me wonder if they are getting paid for it? For acting that way......
I probably shouldnt have said that.....

[Annie]

Quote from FC: "And for heavens sake, somebody give us a profiler's take on what sort of person shoots a 13 year old girl in the mouth 3 times at close range and then leans down to shoot her in the crotch before he leaves?" End Quote

Taylor wasn't shot in the mouth according to the autopsy drawings. As far as facial shots, she was shot in the right cheek, the left chin area and above the lips on the left side. Still gross I admit, but not the same as someone putting a gun in someone's mouth and pulling the trigger three times. Also, how do you know someone kneeled down to shoot her in the groin? If they were far enough from the body, they wouldn't have to kneel down to shoot toward the ground and hit her groin area>


The gun may not have been in her mouth but I believe the bullets went through her mouth. Look at the autopsy photos and put your finger where the marks are and see what is underneath. They are about as close as you can get without putting the gun in the mouth. Someone was very angry with her to shoot her in the face and groin like that. I have wondered if it could have even been girls who were angry with her. Sometimes I think maybe a family member had molested her and didn't want her to tell. Sometimes I think it might be teenage boys shooting. I know I can't get it out of my mind. I think of it every day even when I am not on here reading. I so hope they solve this soon and get the monsters behind bars.

[SeriouslySearching]

I really think they are keeping it more generic on the truck because OSBI wants people to concentrate more on the POI than the white truck, which long ago could have been sunk in some lake somewhere, etc. Since they don't know the exact make and model.... by putting a year range out there would weigh them down with running down every white truck in OK. Ford and Chevy are as common as seeing the sky every morning and "white" is the color of most trucks on the road. They would be overwhelmed with calls on everyone that drove a white Ford or Chevy truck.

Imo, someone knows this POI very well and they also know he drives a white 150 style Ford or Chevy. They are either hiding him out and the truck or they are too scared to come forward.

I remember it took around 10-12 years before the woman that knew who had murdered Lita Sullivan to come forward. She was the girlfriend of the hit man paid by James Sullivan to murder Lita. The only reason she came forward then was because she was no longer with him.

I certainly hope that this will not be the case here and someone will speak up sooner than later.

imooActually, it would narrow down the calls for white Ford or Chevy trucks by giving definition to the description not the opposite. Then add to that the POI driving it and it narrows it down even further.

Sorry, I have to disagree with the theory that it would broaden the scope.

[SeriouslySearching]

I know, I can't imagine the feelings rushing through Skylas head when she turned and ran, and how could anyone shoot somebody 5 times in the back. I'll be happy once this person is taken off the streets.We don't know that Skyla turned and ran, but we do know she was not hit in the back.

[YellowDog]

The gun may not have been in her mouth but I believe the bullets went through her mouth. Look at the autopsy photos and put your finger where the marks are and see what is underneath. They are about as close as you can get without putting the gun in the mouth. Someone was very angry with her to shoot her in the face and groin like that. I have wondered if it could have even been girls who were angry with her. Sometimes I think maybe a family member had molested her and didn't want her to tell. Sometimes I think it might be teenage boys shooting. I know I can't get it out of my mind. I think of it every day even when I am not on here reading. I so hope they solve this soon and get the monsters behind bars.

From the drawings, it doesn't look like it to me, but the drawings are rather crude. If it was kids doing the shooting, they probably just let the bullets fly and hit where they may. A good marksman would probably have gone for the heart. This case is baffling.......there are so many possibilities of what could have happened. I, too, hope they solve this soon.

[GetSmart]

However..... If someone was angry...in a hurry...on meth ( which is speed) wouldn't that cause your marksmanship to be a little erratic?

[oceanblueeyes]

Actually, it would narrow down the calls for white Ford or Chevy trucks by giving definition to the description not the opposite. Then add to that the POI driving it and it narrows it down even further.

Sorry, I have to disagree with the theory that it would broaden the scope.

I just think it would be an unsurmountable task and most of it would be wasted time. If the witnesses are not even sure of the make or year it is like looking for a white vehicle in a sea of white all around.

Trucks do not change body styles drastically even when they are updated about every 4 years when the companies change the body styles some.

I don't believe this guy is local and if he is just somewhere out there in the state of OK or points unknown, OSBI knows that he very well may have long ago rid himself of the vehicle. So the BOLO is for any outsiders that think they may have seen this particular POI and identifying him is much more important than a truck he may not even be in anymore. I have no doubt that the locals reported everyone they knew that drove a standard size white pick up truck in that area.

Even when the print media continues to put the BOLO out on the POI they detail his description and show the sketch only. Imo, they continue to search for him not what he may be driving now.

If he was local they would have found him and the vehicle by now imo.

If he had the brains of a gnat he ditched that truck pronto and got him something else to drive.

Just my opinion though.

[FlowerChild]

The gun may not have been in her mouth but I believe the bullets went through her mouth. Look at the autopsy photos and put your finger where the marks are and see what is underneath. They are about as close as you can get without putting the gun in the mouth. Someone was very angry with her to shoot her in the face and groin like that. I have wondered if it could have even been girls who were angry with her. Sometimes I think maybe a family member had molested her and didn't want her to tell. Sometimes I think it might be teenage boys shooting. I know I can't get it out of my mind. I think of it every day even when I am not on here reading. I so hope they solve this soon and get the monsters behind bars.

I know the gun wasn't in her mouth but 2 of those 3 shots were basically almost on her lips and the 3rd one might have been if Taylor hadn't raised her right hand to shield her face - that bullet had to go thru her hand 1st and thus ended up on her cheek instead of over/under her mouth like the other two.

The groin shot went UP (toward her head) from the entrance wound so the shooter had to have held the gun barrel parallel to the ground to send the bullet in that direction with her lying on the ground. The bullet wasn't deflected, it went straight up thru her colon into her lower chest from the entrance - the killer didn't stand over her and shoot DOWN - that bullet would have gone from front to back thru her butt or upper thigh - the ONLY way to make a groin shot a few inches from her crotch go UPWARD would be to shoot Taylor from a leaning forward, squatting or kneeling position at her feet - and the entrance wound shows a long oval entrance pattern clearly showing the shooter was shooting from a close position at her feet - the angle of the path shows clearly the gun could not have been more than 2' off the ground - especially since we KNOW Taylor was lying in a ditch, LOWER than the surrounding ground.

I maintain the killer shot Taylor square in the MOUTH TWICE and in the lower cheek ONCE and then shot her in the crotch - and with two different guns - I think he looked Taylor in the eyes from less than 5' away and shot her twice, once on the right cheek and once under her mouth, shot Skyla 4 times, changed guns, shot Skyla 4 more times (neck shot last) and then returned to shoot Taylor a second time by the mouth and finishing with a shot to the crotch. 12 bullets, 2 guns, 60 seconds and it was over.

And yeah, I think the shots around Taylor's mouth and the groin shot were intentionally placed. The killer was practically on top of Taylor when he shot her the 1st two times - a head shot would have been a faster kill and obviously he could have done that from that distance - instead even after she was down he shot her AGAIN in the face/mouth and then in the CROTCH - that's deliberate, not an accident. And if that isn't SOME sort of statement I don't know what is, he didn't shoot SKYLA in the face/mouth OR the crotch once - and yet Taylor got BOTH.

I'm not a profiler but I see anger, I see hate, I see frustration and I see a statement - either toward Taylor or her family. The killer(s) shut her up and then DEFILED her figuratively and literally. I want to know WHY.

My Opinion

ETA - Neither Taylor nor Skyla were sexually assaulted - not at the time of the murders or BEFORE the murders. OSBI says point blank NO assault history period. No-one was molesting the girls in any way that was physically apparent at the time they died.

[Missing Sarah]

We don't know that Skyla turned and ran, but we do know she was not hit in the back.

I thought she was shot in the back

[oceanblueeyes]

From the drawings, it doesn't look like it to me, but the drawings are rather crude. If it was kids doing the shooting, they probably just let the bullets fly and hit where they may. A good marksman would probably have gone for the heart. This case is baffling.......there are so many possibilities of what could have happened. I, too, hope they solve this soon.

I don't see it either.

Imo, the shots to Taylor were more accurate. I think the shot to the groin was to stop her from advancing and to gain control over her quickly and then the other shots followed. I don't think Taylor was as much of a moving target as Skyla but I do believe that Skyla was when she had a split second to react and tried to retreat. Imo, that is why the shots are haphazard because she was constantly moving for the short time it took for this to happen.

Even the greatest marksman can miss their intended targeted area if the target is moving. Just look at the cops who are in pursuit of a perp. They may shoot many shots in succession but only connect in nondescript areas of the body.

I did notice that they only recovered some of the bullets from the bodies, right? That means that some of the bullets passed through the body and exited out. I cant remember though...did they find all of the bullets that were fired? I wonder if they found 13 casings at the scene? If the bullets were not retrieved then this may have been why the special dog was called out to sniff for bullets.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

I thought she was shot in the back

I have always heard all shots were frontal shots and they were both facing their killer(s) when they died.

imoo

[KeyboardPlayer]

I heard much the same, ocean...

[YellowDog]

However..... If someone was angry...in a hurry...on meth ( which is speed) wouldn't that cause your marksmanship to be a little erratic?


Yes, it could. I just don't feel like the shooter was explicitly aiming for the mouth.

[SeriouslySearching]

I have always heard all shots were frontal shots and they were both facing their killer(s) when they died.

imooAccording to reports and the autopsy results, this is correct. The only exception would be the angle of the bullet entering Skyla's left shoulder and traveling down into the top of left lung, into the organs, and the lower right lobe of the lung which would place the shooter to the left and above her.

[RoseRed]

I can't beleive they are going to bond this crazy Casey out of jail. Lets hope the judge doesn't allow it to happen. Everyone knows she killed her daughter. That family sure likes the media attention.

I am a someone and I do believe she killed her daughter as there is no proof Caylee is deceased as yet.

[YellowDog]

I am a someone and I do believe she killed her daughter as there is no proof Caylee is deceased as yet.

??? Did you mean to say you do not believe she killed her daughter?

[SeriouslySearching]

This is not the Caylee Anthony thread or the proper place to discuss her case. Thanks!

[Annie]

III. Entrance gunshot wound, top of the left shoulder at the posterior surface.

IV. Entrance gunshot wound, left arm at the posterior surface

V. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest

VI Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest

VIII. Entrance gunshot wound, right neck under the mandible (mentions particles attached to right lateral chest farther down in this one)

So at least two of the shots were in the back and two to the side. She obviously turned to run.

These are from Skyla's autopsy report. It is not the first listing of the wounds. It is in the section that that says Evidence of Injuries.

[oceanblueeyes]

III. Entrance gunshot wound, top of the left shoulder at the posterior surface.

IV. Entrance gunshot wound, left arm at the posterior surface

V. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest

VI Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest

VIII. Entrance gunshot wound, right neck under the mandible (mentions particles attached to right lateral chest farther down in this one)

So at least two of the shots were in the back and two to the side. She obviously turned to run.

These are from Skyla's autopsy report. It is not the first listing of the wounds. It is in the section that that says Evidence of Injuries.

She most likely tried to turn her body away in a defensive posture.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think those would be considered in the back tho. Posterior refers to the midline point, but not exactly from behind. It is a bit misleading. OSBI has also stated they were shot only in the front.

[Albert18]

How long has the autopsy been out?

Skyla most definitely was shot from behind. The two shots to her right arm came from behind her and the shot to her left arm came from behind her. The shot to her shoulder was moving slightly forward. She was probably collapsing when that hit her.

Wound no. 1. right arm, entrance posterior, direction forward.
Wound no. 2. right arm, entrance below and lateral to wound 1, direction slightly forward.
Wound no. 4. left arm, entrance posterior, direction forward.

Wounds 5 through 8 probably came after she was down as they are much more accurate.

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68835 Tricia is currently on a radio show and I got her to talk about this case a bit. She is asking for more information on this thread. She won't be on much longer, but thought I should mention it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2509564#post2509564 <<go here for the thread to respond to Tricia.

[SeriouslySearching]

People are needed on the case over on that thread....Tricia needs info!!! HELP! (NO ONE BOTHERED TO COME!!!)

Tricia and I did the best we could on reporting on what was happening in this case tho. I only had time to give her a limited rundown of what was going on here. She handled it like the pro she is and ran with it. She did a great job, of course! Christine also did a fantastic job. Kudos to both of them!!

[FlowerChild]

My additions bolded, rest exact from the autopsy.

Wound illustrated on front of arm I. Entrance gunshot wound, right arm, perforating through the arm with fracture/dislocation of the humerus.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: forward.
Wound illustrated on the front of arm II. Entrance gunshot wound, right arm, perforating through the subcutaneous fat tissue.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly forward toward the right.
Wound illustrated on the front of the shoulder on the front of the body III. Entrance gunshot wound, top of left shoulder, perforating through the left third intercostal space, upper lobe of the
left lung, esophagus, superior vena cava, right pulmonary artery, middle lobe of right lung, right fourth intercostal
space, and fifth rib to the right breast.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly forward, downward toward the right.
Wound illustrated to the side of arm IV. Entrance gunshot wound, left arm, perforating through the regional soft tissue.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: forward, slightly downward toward the right.
d. No evidence of fracture of humerus.
Wound Illustrated to the front chest V. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest, penetrating through the right eighth rib, diaphragm,
liver, lower lobe of right lung, esophagus, lower lobe of left lung, right third intercostal space, and
left back.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. No exit gunshot wound present: damaged lead bullet with copper jacket.
c. Direction: slightly backward, upward toward the left.
Wound Illustrated to the front chest VI. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest, perforating through the right eighth intercostal space,
right kidney, pancreas, spleen, left diaphragm, left ninth intercostal space to the left chest.
a. Entrance gunshot wound; no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Atypical exit gunshot wound; no bullet is recovered.
c. Direction is slightly backward, upward and toward the left.
Wound Illustrated to the lower front chest VII. Entrance gunshot wound, epigastrium, perforating through the stomach, liver, right kidney to the
left lower back.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: backward, downward toward the right.
Wound Illustrated below the ear foward the front under the jaw VIII. Entrance gunshot wound, right neck, penetrating through the pharynx to the left mastoid region.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: scattered gunpowder attached (15.5 x 13.5 cm).
b. No exit gunshot wound present: a damaged small copper coated lead bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly backward toward the left.
d. Left mastoid bone with focal fracture and small regional hemorrhages.
----------
If you look at the drawing ALL of the body gunshots except the one that entered thru the soft tissue on the side of her upper left arm entered from the front - even the ones on her right arm entered from the front half of her body, as did the one on the front part of her shoulder (which was angled down because the gun was shot from a position higher than her shoulder) - she had several exits on her back and under her arm, but the body shots all went in from the front of her body. Remember she was found face up, so a couple of shots could have occurred with her prone face up on the ground with the shooter in a position above her head (like the one front to her shoulder). It's likely that the one to her left arm was as she was falling or after she was on the ground. The neck shot was the only one with gunshot residue - it was made from almost point blank range (as close as you can get without actually putting the muzzle ON her neck). The shoulder wound and the one to the side of her left arm could have happened before the neck shot when she was on the ground.

Neither Skyla nor Taylor was shot from behind or was running away - OSBI said specifically that they didn't even have time to run and were shot down where they stood, fast. Taylor fell with her purse still over her shoulder, that's how fast it happened. And I think there were a total of 12 shots - otherwise the killer(s) would have had to stop and reload, and I don't think they did that. The extra 13th "wound" was the one on Skyla's hand and I think it was a thru and thru shot that entered her right cheek after going thru her hand. It was probably the second shot fired that day - Taylor was reacting in pain from the 1st shot to her face probably the one that went in above her mouth below her nose. And if you look at the drawing none of the shot's to Taylor's Face were more than two fingers in distance from her mouth - one between her upper lip and nose, close to centered, one maybe an inch below her lower lip on her chin and one maybe one and a half inches from the corner of her mouth on her right cheek. The groin shot was maybe a hand's width from Taylors crotch and at exactly the same height on her leg as her crotch. And I disagree that the groin shot was to keep Taylor from running - within the 1st 5 seconds Taylor had two bullets in her brain and fell with her purse on her arm - she wasn't going anywhere - plus the angle of the groin shot shows it was made from a shooting position at her feet - not possible unless she is already lying down on her back.

I have a PDF of both autopsies (full version) if anyone needs a copy, PM me with your email and I will send it to you.

My Opinion

[Fairy1]

The autopsy reports lead me to believe all of the shots happened in very quick succession. These babies never had time to react AT ALL!

[Lauren - CA]

FC, what do you mean by full version? The autopsy reports posted on the internet, were they not the full version?

[Lauren - CA]

What kind of person could do this to two little girls? People, just remember, this monster is still walking the streets. Those poor babies. What did they do to deserve this?

[Fairy1]

What kind of person could do this to two little girls? People, just remember, this monster is still walking the streets. Those poor babies. What did they do to deserve this?

I think they did nothing to deserve this and I think we will all be shocked when we learn who did do it!!!

[FlowerChild]

FC, what do you mean by full version? The autopsy reports posted on the internet, were they not the full version?
Some of the links online are to abbreviated versions or summaries some without the drawings etc. I just wanted people to know I had the full ones if they wanted them. I will keep them in case the online links go dead or change (as online things sometimes do) and make them available to anyone who wants them. I think they may prove important if we have movement in this case.

And I think OSBI has an idea of who did this - but at this moment, they can't PROVE it. My current prayer daily is that there is DNA that will "seal the deal" both for an arrest and the DP at the trial.

This is how I come here and post and hold on and trust that this will be solved...perhaps it will help some of you who struggle with frustration and anger and pain over this case.

This case is the very definition of "faith" - believing in something you can't see, hear, touch or prove - but I DO HAVE FAITH that this case will be solved and the killer(s) will face justice here on earth AND in the afterlife. Hell is too good for a killer who does this to innocent girls who could have done NOTHING to deserve being left on the side of a country road. People are more respectful with their trash than someone was with two precious girls lives. This wasn't an accident, or an illness or even a disaster, this is pure evil walking among us with a human face. But I HAVE FAITH, and I affirm every day that someone with something so nasty inside will soon be exposed to the world as the coward and POS that he is, in every way. This is NOT A COLD CASE, and it's not over and there WILL BE JUSTICE - I say it every day. The killer(s) will face the future they have earned now and for all eternity, they cannot escape and they cannot be redeemed - there isn't enough forgiveness in the universe to make this right.

Skyla and Taylor deserve our FAITH - we pay homage to them if we stick with this and continue to trust there will be justice for them. They are no longer just two girls from Weleetka Oklahoma, they are now OUR daughters, carried in our hearts and so much white light, so much love from so many, stretching from coast to coast will illuminate the darkness that hides the killer(s) - they can run but they cannot hide - we will see to that. We just have to KEEP THE FAITH!

My Opinion

[Annie]

My additions bolded, rest exact from the autopsy.

Wound illustrated on front of arm I. Entrance gunshot wound, right arm, perforating through the arm with fracture/dislocation of the humerus.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: forward.
Wound illustrated on the front of arm II. Entrance gunshot wound, right arm, perforating through the subcutaneous fat tissue.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly forward toward the right.
Wound illustrated on the front of the shoulder on the front of the body III. Entrance gunshot wound, top of left shoulder, perforating through the left third intercostal space, upper lobe of the
left lung, esophagus, superior vena cava, right pulmonary artery, middle lobe of right lung, right fourth intercostal
space, and fifth rib to the right breast.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly forward, downward toward the right.
Wound illustrated to the side of arm IV. Entrance gunshot wound, left arm, perforating through the regional soft tissue.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: forward, slightly downward toward the right.
d. No evidence of fracture of humerus.
Wound Illustrated to the front chest V. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest, penetrating through the right eighth rib, diaphragm,
liver, lower lobe of right lung, esophagus, lower lobe of left lung, right third intercostal space, and
left back.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. No exit gunshot wound present: damaged lead bullet with copper jacket.
c. Direction: slightly backward, upward toward the left.
Wound Illustrated to the front chest VI. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest, perforating through the right eighth intercostal space,
right kidney, pancreas, spleen, left diaphragm, left ninth intercostal space to the left chest.
a. Entrance gunshot wound; no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Atypical exit gunshot wound; no bullet is recovered.
c. Direction is slightly backward, upward and toward the left.
Wound Illustrated to the lower front chest VII. Entrance gunshot wound, epigastrium, perforating through the stomach, liver, right kidney to the
left lower back.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: backward, downward toward the right.
Wound Illustrated below the ear foward the front under the jaw VIII. Entrance gunshot wound, right neck, penetrating through the pharynx to the left mastoid region.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: scattered gunpowder attached (15.5 x 13.5 cm).
b. No exit gunshot wound present: a damaged small copper coated lead bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly backward toward the left.
d. Left mastoid bone with focal fracture and small regional hemorrhages.
----------
If you look at the drawing ALL of the body gunshots except the one that entered thru the soft tissue on the side of her upper left arm entered from the front - even the ones on her right arm entered from the front half of her body, as did the one on the front part of her shoulder (which was angled down because the gun was shot from a position higher than her shoulder) - she had several exits on her back and under her arm, but the body shots all went in from the front of her body. Remember she was found face up, so a couple of shots could have occurred with her prone face up on the ground with the shooter in a position above her head (like the one front to her shoulder). It's likely that the one to her left arm was as she was falling or after she was on the ground. The neck shot was the only one with gunshot residue - it was made from almost point blank range (as close as you can get without actually putting the muzzle ON her neck). The shoulder wound and the one to the side of her left arm could have happened before the neck shot when she was on the ground.

Neither Skyla nor Taylor was shot from behind or was running away - OSBI said specifically that they didn't even have time to run and were shot down where they stood, fast. Taylor fell with her purse still over her shoulder, that's how fast it happened. And I think there were a total of 12 shots - otherwise the killer(s) would have had to stop and reload, and I don't think they did that. The extra 13th "wound" was the one on Skyla's hand and I think it was a thru and thru shot that entered her right cheek after going thru her hand. It was probably the second shot fired that day - Taylor was reacting in pain from the 1st shot to her face probably the one that went in above her mouth below her nose. And if you look at the drawing none of the shot's to Taylor's Face were more than two fingers in distance from her mouth - one between her upper lip and nose, close to centered, one maybe an inch below her lower lip on her chin and one maybe one and a half inches from the corner of her mouth on her right cheek. The groin shot was maybe a hand's width from Taylors crotch and at exactly the same height on her leg as her crotch. And I disagree that the groin shot was to keep Taylor from running - within the 1st 5 seconds Taylor had two bullets in her brain and fell with her purse on her arm - she wasn't going anywhere - plus the angle of the groin shot shows it was made from a shooting position at her feet - not possible unless she is already lying down on her back.

I have a PDF of both autopsies (full version) if anyone needs a copy, PM me with your email and I will send it to you.

My Opinion

Why didn't you just put it the way it was in the bolded part? You reworded it to leave out all reference to posterior or lateral. Why change it to prove your point? I am sure many of us have printed the autopsy reports and can check them. There is no need to change the wording to put your own.

[Maggie22]

Observations and "what ifs"

The girls had to plead for permission to walk to the bridge but the Plackers left them alone at home? No, I don’t think so. I suspect Uncle Joe was at the Placker house or in the area and they knew it. Can we believe his story that he saw the girls walking towards home? Was that a statement made to distance himself from the murder? (“Don’t look at me! They were alive when I saw them.”) I also wonder why the Plackers were concerned about Taylor going to the bridge. It was not far and she was 13. Did they know it was a place where drug deals went down?
From Tom’s Girl: “It was up the family & friends of these victims to keep their loved ones in the news in any manner they could, these families have not done that.” I think that the family knows who did the killing. Maybe not the specific individuals but that it had to have been from a group or gang who were on the bridge to buy drugs. Taylor’s father (gf) said that “they” cannot hurt the family any worse than they had already. Was that a message to the killers? “Mosher said the families have laid their trust in the hands of the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Department and the OSBI to find the killers.” Was that a message to the killers that the family was not talking?
I think Taylor was the target. I think she was probably on the walk that day to deliver drugs to someone on the bridge. For Uncle Joe? She knew people from the gang and felt comfortable with them. The Z with the slashes is a gang symbol. If it represented the actors’ name then why, when the names were written out on her body, did the Z not have slashes on it?
I suspect Uncle Joe was at the Placker house to meet the people to sell the drugs and sent Taylor to make the delivery. The purse that Taylor carried could have been used to carry drugs and the money for the payment. Perhaps Joe tried to “cheat” the buyer and never considered that he was putting Taylor and Skyla in danger because he didn’t think it would be noticed. Or maybe he just didn’t care.
I don’t think Joe was a shooter. He was on the murder site shortly afterwards. The shooter had to have blood on his clothes and Joe did not. It would have been noticed.
On the walk back Taylor and Skyla could have been confronted by the buyers. Perhaps one of them struck her in the face causing the injury, but if she knew them she might not have realized the extent of the danger.
Taylor’s hand had a wound that indicated that the hand was closed with the fingers toward her. Am I remembering that right? If the hand had been held out in a defensive way, I think it would have been open with the palm toward the shooter. If it had been a protective gesture, I think it would have been open but with the palm toward her face. But the hand was closed. Was she handing money from the drug deal back to the shooter?
I know I don’t sound sympathetic towards the girls but I am. But the family has so many bad apples that their way of life must have been a life that most of us cannot understand. Even the worst of the family were accepted and welcomed. If my brother were like Uncle Joe, he would not have gotten near my two sons. From an early age Taylor must have seen and heard things and known people who did all kinds of crimes. Children are formed, in part, from their environment and my sympathy for Taylor is that she never had a chance. I think making the delivery would be no big deal to her. Just life as she knew it.
Perhaps the POI saw the bodies in the ditch and drove on. Was he sick? Perhaps he had to stop his truck suddenly and thus did not pull it out of the road because he was sick. Is he not coming forward because of fear that he will be targeted?
I would guess two shooters and a little older than “kids” because I think kids would have slipped up and talked or been found out. The shooter(s) seem to be more experienced and hardened.
Sorry for the length. I don’t post often but sure make up for it when I do. J Maggie

[cloudajo]

Sigh, I need a break. I thought I was doing ok, relating things that run across my mind, questions in my mind. But it appears that people think I am pointing fingers.
I guess I just dont know how to post. I am better to go back and just read. But I do want it known, that I dont have any clue to what happened, and when I post, I am just posting "What if's) which I thought I was being clear about.
I am confused, ipset, and apparently not writing what I am trying to write.... I guess.

I now have a local who can keep me in the know. I will ne near. Reading.

Frog, I was just posting my own "what ifs" back to yours. I really don't have a clue, I'm confused as well with lots of questions in my head.

I'm sorry if it came across differently.

[cloudajo]

The guy on another forum said this is what they did when they tested his gun today. He said they fired the weapon twice and kept the bullets and casings for comparison with the ones from the crime scene. He said he was present while they did this.

Thanks. I had been wondering if he was going to provide an update.

[Mysterylover]

I believe a 'message' was sent with those shots, to someone in Taylor's family saying: Possibly one of the following phrases,

mouth shots: that's for squealing, you talked too much, we don't like snitches, keep your mouth shut, you should have kept your mouth shut, you should have kept your 'word'.

Goin shot: Screw You! see what you get when you Screw me on a 'deal'.

[Lauren - CA]

Thanks. I had been wondering if he was going to provide an update.


Cloudajo and Claycat, I don't believe that fellow is who he claims to be. I wouldn't believe what he said. I think way more people than we ever imagined are "someone else" on that forum.

[Missing Sarah]

People are needed on the case over on that thread....Tricia needs info!!! HELP! (NO ONE BOTHERED TO COME!!!)

Tricia and I did the best we could on reporting on what was happening in this case tho. I only had time to give her a limited rundown of what was going on here. She handled it like the pro she is and ran with it. She did a great job, of course! Christine also did a fantastic job. Kudos to both of them!!

I think several shots entered the back

[Missing Sarah]

Hello Cloud, and Claycat

[Lauren - CA]

Some of the links online are to abbreviated versions or summaries some without the drawings etc. I just wanted people to know I had the full ones if they wanted them. I will keep them in case the online links go dead or change (as online things sometimes do) and make them available to anyone who wants them. I think they may prove important if we have movement in this case. Thank you. I just wanted to be sure I had the full versions. I was able to download the ones with pictures and have copies as well that can be scanned in the future if required.
And I think OSBI has an idea of who did this - but at this moment, they can't PROVE it. My current prayer daily is that there is DNA that will "seal the deal" both for an arrest and the DP at the trial. I also believe they may know who the killer(s) is/are and that is why this case is not full blown out there in the media like we would like.

This is how I come here and post and hold on and trust that this will be solved...perhaps it will help some of you who struggle with frustration and anger and pain over this case. Thank you, I find it helps me alot.

This case is the very definition of "faith" - believing in something you can't see, hear, touch or prove - but I DO HAVE FAITH that this case will be solved and the killer(s) will face justice here on earth AND in the afterlife. Hell is too good for a killer who does this to innocent girls who could have done NOTHING to deserve being left on the side of a country road. People are more respectful with their trash than someone was with two precious girls lives. This wasn't an accident, or an illness or even a disaster, this is pure evil walking among us with a human face. But I HAVE FAITH, and I affirm every day that someone with something so nasty inside will soon be exposed to the world as the coward and POS that he is, in every way. This is NOT A COLD CASE, and it's not over and there WILL BE JUSTICE - I say it every day. The killer(s) will face the future they have earned now and for all eternity, they cannot escape and they cannot be redeemed - there isn't enough forgiveness in the universe to make this right. From your mouth to God's ears, please let their be justice for these precious girls.

Skyla and Taylor deserve our FAITH - we pay homage to them if we stick with this and continue to trust there will be justice for them. They are no longer just two girls from Weleetka Oklahoma, they are now OUR daughters, carried in our hearts and so much white light, so much love from so many, stretching from coast to coast will illuminate the darkness that hides the killer(s) - they can run but they cannot hide - we will see to that. We just have to KEEP THE FAITH! It's funny because sometimes, especially in the very beginning, I felt like I was grieving for my own child. No one could have worded it more eloquently than you have. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. My Opinion

We have to believe that something so evil will eventually be found and pulled from the gutter in which he lies. No one, especially a child deserves to be shot in the manner in which they were and left on the side of the road like road kill. This person wanted those girls to be found. He was brazen enough to leave them, made no attempt to hide their bodies in the woods nearby, which tells me he wanted to leave a message. If he had a gun, he could have ordered them to walk further from the road and into the woods making it harder for them to be found. Just my opinion.

[Lauren - CA]

I believe a 'message' was sent with those shots, to someone in Taylor's family saying: Possibly one of the following phrases,

mouth shots: that's for squealing, you talked too much, we don't like snitches, keep your mouth shut, you should have kept your mouth shut, you should have kept your 'word'.

Goin shot: Screw You! see what you get when you Screw me on a 'deal'.


Very good point!

[cloudajo]

Cloudajo and Claycat, I don't believe that fellow is who he claims to be. I wouldn't believe what he said. I think way more people than we ever imagined are "someone else" on that forum.

Lauren,
Yes, thanks. I realize it is a rumor and there are no media links or any confirmation on this. I still like to read it all and consider information coming from various sources.

[Lauren - CA]

Lauren,
Yes, thanks. I realize it is a rumor and there are no media links or any confirmation on this. I still like to read it all and consider information coming from various sources.


Yes, just realize there are quite a few conversations going back and forth between the same person. They post under different names and locations. Of course, the real people in there then are accused of also being the same person. That is why I registered and use the same name in both forums. No mistake about it, I am real!!

[cloudajo]

[quote=Maggie22;2511337]Observations and "what ifs"<snipped>

Maggie, interesting observations.

As you say, it could have been a statement to distance himself. I also think if he did drive by the girls walking back from the bridge he would have pulled over and would have spoken to them, even if for a minute (and maybe he did).

I wish we knew more about the comings/goings of everyone that weekend (and for that matter, every day starting in mid-May leading up to June 8th). School ending, family reunion, etc.

The Plackers may have said no initially because 1) they weren’t home so were uncomfortable with it and/or 2) Skyla’s mom was coming to pick her up soon.

I don’t think you sound unsympathetic, just asking questions. But, even with the criminal activity surrounding the girls, it seems like they were very sheltered from it by their parents. Both doing well in school, in 4-H, in Students Working Against Tobacco (SWAT), High School Musical stuff. So that’s why I find it difficult to go with the drug delivery, unless the request was masked as something else by someone else. But without knowing who was there that weekend and other details, it's hard to say.

[cloudajo]

Hello Cloud, and Claycat

Hello!

[Lauren - CA]

Hello!

I sent you a very long reply, lol.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think several shots entered the backI guess we will have to agree to disagree then. I am not seeing entrance wounds on the back in the drawing provided by the ME.

[Missing Sarah]

I don't think those would be considered in the back tho. Posterior refers to the midline point, but not exactly from behind. It is a bit misleading. OSBI has also stated they were shot only in the front.

I think maybe those are the wrong autopsy reports.

[Missing Sarah]

[quote=Maggie22;2511337]Observations and "what ifs"<snipped>

Maggie, interesting observations.

As you say, it could have been a statement to distance himself. I also think if he did drive by the girls walking back from the bridge he would have pulled over and would have spoken to them, even if for a minute (and maybe he did).

I wish we knew more about the comings/goings of everyone that weekend (and for that matter, every day starting in mid-May leading up to June 8th). School ending, family reunion, etc.

The Plackers may have said no initially because 1) they weren’t home so were uncomfortable with it and/or 2) Skyla’s mom was coming to pick her up soon.

I don’t think you sound unsympathetic, just asking questions. But, even with the criminal activity surrounding the girls, it seems like they were very sheltered from it by their parents. Both doing well in school, in 4-H, in Students Working Against Tobacco (SWAT), High School Musical stuff. So that’s why I find it difficult to go with the drug delivery, unless the request was masked as something else by someone else. But without knowing who was there that weekend and other details, it's hard to say.

Very well spoken, Cloud

[SeriouslySearching]

I think maybe those are the wrong autopsy reports.Then someone should definitely post the right ones!! WTH?! I saw the ME's writing and signature on them so were they fakes?

[Albert18]

When it says the direction of the bullet the reference point is the victim.

Wound no. 1, direction forward, means the bullet is moving to the front of Skyla. Entrance posterior means what it means. There is no way she was facing the shooter when wound no. 1 happened.

If you go to the bottom of Skyla's autopsy it has a back view of a torso and a frontal view or a torso, the drawings go side to side, not up and down. The wounds are numbered. If wound no. 1 has an ent. on the back view and an exit on the front view, she wasn't shot from the front.

The full body views with the bodies standing erect aren't showing body wounds they are showing holes in the clothes.

[FlowerChild]

Why didn't you just put it the way it was in the bolded part? You reworded it to leave out all reference to posterior or lateral. Why change it to prove your point? I am sure many of us have printed the autopsy reports and can check them. There is no need to change the wording to put your own.
I didn't "reword" anything - I copied/pasted the ACTUAL autopsy report for SKYLA about the shots (everything after the roman numerals I-VIII). The only thing I ADDED WAS THE BOLDED WORDS BEFORE EACH ROMAN NUMERAL and my comments after the _____ at the end of the autopsy report section.

I REPEAT, I DID NOT REWORD OR ADD ANYTHING.

[FlowerChild]

When it says the direction of the bullet the reference point is the victim.

Wound no. 1, direction forward, means the bullet is moving to the front of Skyla. Entrance posterior means what it means. There is no way she was facing the shooter when wound no. 1 happened.

If you go to the bottom of Skyla's autopsy it has a back view of a torso and a frontal view or a torso, the drawings go side to side, not up and down. The wounds are numbered. If wound no. 1 has an ent. on the back view and an exit on the front view, she wasn't shot from the front.

The full body views with the bodies standing erect aren't showing body wounds they are showing holes in the clothes.
The drawing of the NAKED body with no clothes sketched on is the ENTRANCE WOUNDS/EXIT - it saws "ent" and has a roman numeral to denote WHICH entrance it is. The "I" wound is clearly from the FRONT of Skyla, not the back.

I am going to figure out a way to put the autopsy reports page by page in my WS album as JPGs. This way everyone can "see" what we are referring to.

My Opinion

[Shutterfly]

The drawing of the NAKED body with no clothes sketched on is the ENTRANCE WOUNDS/EXIT - it saws "ent" and has a roman numeral to denote WHICH entrance it is. The "I" wound is clearly from the FRONT of Skyla, not the back.

I am going to figure out a way to put the autopsy reports page by page in my WS album as JPGs. This way everyone can "see" what we are referring to.

My Opinion


good idea FC

[Tom'sGirl]

http://i36.tinypic.com/qzq109.jpg

[KeyboardPlayer]

My additions bolded, rest exact from the autopsy.

Wound illustrated on front of arm I. Entrance gunshot wound, right arm, perforating through the arm with fracture/dislocation of the humerus.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: forward.
Wound illustrated on the front of arm II. Entrance gunshot wound, right arm, perforating through the subcutaneous fat tissue.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly forward toward the right.
Wound illustrated on the front of the shoulder on the front of the body III. Entrance gunshot wound, top of left shoulder, perforating through the left third intercostal space, upper lobe of the
left lung, esophagus, superior vena cava, right pulmonary artery, middle lobe of right lung, right fourth intercostal
space, and fifth rib to the right breast.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly forward, downward toward the right.
Wound illustrated to the side of arm IV. Entrance gunshot wound, left arm, perforating through the regional soft tissue.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: forward, slightly downward toward the right.
d. No evidence of fracture of humerus.
Wound Illustrated to the front chest V. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest, penetrating through the right eighth rib, diaphragm,
liver, lower lobe of right lung, esophagus, lower lobe of left lung, right third intercostal space, and
left back.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. No exit gunshot wound present: damaged lead bullet with copper jacket.
c. Direction: slightly backward, upward toward the left.
Wound Illustrated to the front chest VI. Entrance gunshot wound, right lateral chest, perforating through the right eighth intercostal space,
right kidney, pancreas, spleen, left diaphragm, left ninth intercostal space to the left chest.
a. Entrance gunshot wound; no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Atypical exit gunshot wound; no bullet is recovered.
c. Direction is slightly backward, upward and toward the left.
Wound Illustrated to the lower front chest VII. Entrance gunshot wound, epigastrium, perforating through the stomach, liver, right kidney to the
left lower back.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: no soot blackening or powder stippling.
b. Exit gunshot wound present: no bullet recovered.
c. Direction: backward, downward toward the right.
Wound Illustrated below the ear foward the front under the jaw VIII. Entrance gunshot wound, right neck, penetrating through the pharynx to the left mastoid region.
a. Entrance gunshot wound: scattered gunpowder attached (15.5 x 13.5 cm).
b. No exit gunshot wound present: a damaged small copper coated lead bullet recovered.
c. Direction: slightly backward toward the left.
d. Left mastoid bone with focal fracture and small regional hemorrhages.
----------
If you look at the drawing ALL of the body gunshots except the one that entered thru the soft tissue on the side of her upper left arm entered from the front - even the ones on her right arm entered from the front half of her body, as did the one on the front part of her shoulder (which was angled down because the gun was shot from a position higher than her shoulder) - she had several exits on her back and under her arm, but the body shots all went in from the front of her body. Remember she was found face up, so a couple of shots could have occurred with her prone face up on the ground with the shooter in a position above her head (like the one front to her shoulder). It's likely that the one to her left arm was as she was falling or after she was on the ground. The neck shot was the only one with gunshot residue - it was made from almost point blank range (as close as you can get without actually putting the muzzle ON her neck). The shoulder wound and the one to the side of her left arm could have happened before the neck shot when she was on the ground.

Neither Skyla nor Taylor was shot from behind or was running away - OSBI said specifically that they didn't even have time to run and were shot down where they stood, fast. Taylor fell with her purse still over her shoulder, that's how fast it happened. And I think there were a total of 12 shots - otherwise the killer(s) would have had to stop and reload, and I don't think they did that. The extra 13th "wound" was the one on Skyla's hand and I think it was a thru and thru shot that entered her right cheek after going thru her hand. It was probably the second shot fired that day - Taylor was reacting in pain from the 1st shot to her face probably the one that went in above her mouth below her nose. And if you look at the drawing none of the shot's to Taylor's Face were more than two fingers in distance from her mouth - one between her upper lip and nose, close to centered, one maybe an inch below her lower lip on her chin and one maybe one and a half inches from the corner of her mouth on her right cheek. The groin shot was maybe a hand's width from Taylors crotch and at exactly the same height on her leg as her crotch. And I disagree that the groin shot was to keep Taylor from running - within the 1st 5 seconds Taylor had two bullets in her brain and fell with her purse on her arm - she wasn't going anywhere - plus the angle of the groin shot shows it was made from a shooting position at her feet - not possible unless she is already lying down on her back.

I have a PDF of both autopsies (full version) if anyone needs a copy, PM me with your email and I will send it to you.

My Opinion
Flower, I have two PDF files as well... Taylor's is 16 pages long and Skyla's is 17 pages. Are these the same two you have? Difficult reading, for sure. Lots of information, but it makes it all too real... :-(

[Albert18]

Tom'sGirl posted the drawings. Those are them.

The arm wounds are exit to the front. When the shooting started the shooter must have been behind and to her left so I imagine she had already turned and was gunned down.

ETA: If you remember Jessica Brown said Skyla had turned.

ETAA: Those descriptions you have provided Flowerchild are the abbreviated version. Farther on in the autopsy it gives a more detailed description of each wound.

[sheza]

What I have been wondering is why Placker's picked Weleetka to live, you don't just up and move to Weleetka from Oklahoma City without some kind of knowlege of the area, jobs - a friend - a family member.
I felt the answer they gave was kinda odd.
The only connection I can come up with is.. Their rent house is the Chancey's, Farrow's work for Chancey's- Chancey's son is Graham schools superintendent.
Rose Whitaker and Vickie Placker worked together. They both moved here around the same time.. So why not just say, We have ALL been long time friends thats why we moved here. Instead of only Taylor and Skyla being inseparable.
So were they all friends before Weleetka or was it just conincidence after they both moved here Taylor and Skyla both are killed?

Maybe we need to try and connect both families before moving to this area.

Just a thought.

[fabvab]

[quote=Maggie22;2511337]Observations and "what ifs"<snipped>

Maggie, interesting observations.

As you say, it could have been a statement to distance himself. I also think if he did drive by the girls walking back from the bridge he would have pulled over and would have spoken to them, even if for a minute (and maybe he did).

I wish we knew more about the comings/goings of everyone that weekend (and for that matter, every day starting in mid-May leading up to June 8th). School ending, family reunion, etc.

The Plackers may have said no initially because 1) they weren’t home so were uncomfortable with it and/or 2) Skyla’s mom was coming to pick her up soon.

I don’t think you sound unsympathetic, just asking questions. But, even with the criminal activity surrounding the girls, it seems like they were very sheltered from it by their parents. Both doing well in school, in 4-H, in Students Working Against Tobacco (SWAT), High School Musical stuff. So that’s why I find it difficult to go with the drug delivery, unless the request was masked as something else by someone else. But without knowing who was there that weekend and other details, it's hard to say.

I do agree they seemed sheltered from the any criminal type activity from what we have seen, read and heard in the media. But...I think the 2 tattoos on Taylor give a little different perspective on those things though. I think they were confronted on a daily basis with negatives such as incarcerated relatives, warrants, drugs, poor economic situation, etc. But despite all those negatives they were still young girls at heart who had dreams and ambitions and believed in positives such as 4-H, musicals, etc.

[KeyboardPlayer]

Fabvab, I too was surprised to see that she had tattoos. Perhaps, though, they are not permanent but the temporary type that lots of kids nowadays get out of vending machines and whatnot? Just a thought... Cheers!

[Shutterfly]

Would someone be so kinda as to pop over to this thread and tell me who the young man is pictured in this photograph.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2512065#post2512065

[Missing Sarah]

I'm not sure Sheza, I guess we need to go back and try to connect the two familes. That may hold the key

[Missing Sarah]

What if, they had all lived in the same city....are we sure the Plackers moved here from OKC..or is there a Kansas connection

[Missing Sarah]

I'm not sure, I'm not that familar with the extended family.

[SeriouslySearching]

Would someone be so kinda as to pop over to this thread and tell me who the young man is pictured in this photograph.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2512065#post2512065 I see you found it was Charles. (I also thought he could be the father due to his emotional state, too. :X)

[sheza]

Would someone be so kinda as to pop over to this thread and tell me who the young man is pictured in this photograph.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2512065#post2512065

I've seen him around here, I think his name is Charles Placker..not sure.
I will verify this and get back with you.

[Busylady]

The Whitakers moved from Kansas to Weleetka, I assumed they picked Weleetka because thats where Roses parents are. The Plackers moved from OKC. I do not believe they knew each other at all before the girls met each other in school.

IIRC it was also discovered that Vicky and Rose did not work together at McDonalds like previously discussed.

[sheza]

I'm not sure, I'm not that familar with the extended family.

Charles & Crystal Placker the trailer house abt 1 mile south of Taylor's.

[Missing Sarah]

Oh, alright...thats the place we drive past that day...right?

[Missing Sarah]

Well, to bad they didn't choose a different place to relocate. Now, Weleetka stunned with all this trouble

[Shutterfly]

Charles & Crystal Placker the trailer house abt 1 mile south of Taylor's.

Is that in reference to the photograph...Charles...and he lived a mile from Taylor??

[sheza]

The Whitakers moved from Kansas to Weleetka, I assumed they picked Weleetka because thats where Roses parents are. The Plackers moved from OKC. I do not believe they knew each other at all before the girls met each other in school.

IIRC it was also discovered that Vicky and Rose did not work together at McDonalds like previously discussed.

They didn't work together? Everyone around here thinks they did.
I knew Whitakers moved from Kansas and Placker had said OKC,
Perhaps the Chancey connection was coincidence.

[Maggie22]

[quote=Maggie22;2511337]Observations and "what ifs"<snipped>

Maggie, interesting observations.

As you say, it could have been a statement to distance himself. I also think if he did drive by the girls walking back from the bridge he would have pulled over and would have spoken to them, even if for a minute (and maybe he did).

I wish we knew more about the comings/goings of everyone that weekend (and for that matter, every day starting in mid-May leading up to June 8th). School ending, family reunion, etc.

The Plackers may have said no initially because 1) they weren’t home so were uncomfortable with it and/or 2) Skyla’s mom was coming to pick her up soon.

I don’t think you sound unsympathetic, just asking questions. But, even with the criminal activity surrounding the girls, it seems like they were very sheltered from it by their parents. Both doing well in school, in 4-H, in Students Working Against Tobacco (SWAT), High School Musical stuff. So that’s why I find it difficult to go with the drug delivery, unless the request was masked as something else by someone else. But without knowing who was there that weekend and other details, it's hard to say.
If Taylor were involved in delivering drugs, it was probably her first experiences at it. And she probably did not comprehend the full situation and the danger that she was putting herself in. She could have been doing a favor for someone she liked or earning a little money for something she wanted to buy.

I don’t see how that she could have been sheltered. If the criminal relatives lived in New York City, she could have been sheltered, but they lived nearby and visited often. She must have known that they were in prison, what the charges were and so on. Yet, these members of the family were respected and liked by the others in the family. I have to wonder if they were nice kids about to slide off into a life like so many in the family had.

The Zs with the slashes were rubbings that left scars, as I recall.

[sheza]

Is that in reference to the photograph...Charles...and he lived a mile from Taylor??

yes, Charles & Crystal Placker live a mile south from Taylors house.

[little726]

I'm not sure, I'm not that familar with the extended family.


Hi Sarah.

Are you familiar with the immediate family (Peter,Vicky,Taylor....)?

[DLTinOKLA]

And I think there were a total of 12 shots - otherwise the killer(s) would have had to stop and reload, and I don't think they did that

While I don't believe their was any reloading done, why do you assume that the guns used only held 6 shots each? If casings were found at the scene then the murder weapons had to be either semi automatic rifles or pistols. Only a revolver wouldn't have left any casings at the scene. If the murder weapons were semi automatics there could of been numerous other shots. Do we know how many more shots that might of been fired that didn't even hit the girls????? For example I have an older model 22 rimfire rifle (semi auto) that holds 17 bullets. I have a 9mm semi automatic handgun that holds 15. I have an AR-15 that can hold 10-30 rounds depending on what magazine I'm using. Several .22 semi auto pistols can hold 10-12 rounds of ammo. I still believe the smaller weapon used could of been a .22 rimfire which is a gun that kids typically plink around with.

[little726]

Oh, alright...thats the place we drive past that day...right?

Sarah, did you just say you drove past the Placker's that day? Or am I just reading it different?

[Missing Sarah]

Well, me and Sheza went for a drive, and to take floweres to ther memorial...it wasn't the day of the murders

[Missing Sarah]

We are also going to visit Claudia next week-end, if our plans work out. Just to take her a card, and chat a bit see how she is doing

[Missing Sarah]

I'm familar with Claudia, and Jim. But, not the Plackers.

[little726]

Well, me and Sheza went for a drive, and to take floweres to ther memorial...it wasn't the day of the murders

Thanks. That was very nice of you and Sheza to take flowers to the memorial.

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm familar with Claudia, and Jim.
Are you speaking of the Farrows?

[little726]

We are also going to visit Claudia next week-end, if our plans work out. Just to take her a card, and chat a bit see how she is doing


That is also a nice thing to do.

[cloudajo]

yes, Charles & Crystal Placker live a mile south from Taylors house.

Sheza,

Is that Charles Placker Jr.? Is Crystal his wife? Any idea how long they've lived there and were any other Plackers living with them?

Thanks.

[cloudajo]

FC,

I was wondering...

Just to clarify, your source said it was Uncle Joe Mosher who drove by the girls that day, and not Uncle Joe Placker, correct?

Thanks.

[Missing Sarah]

Sheza,

Is that Charles Placker Jr.? Is Crystal his wife? Any idea how long they've lived there and were any other Plackers living with them?

Thanks.

There are several family of Plackers that live in that direct area.

[Missing Sarah]

Yeah, I feel so sorry for Claudia she is a nice lady, just an ole country girl. We might turn over some new imformation if we do visit her

[YellowDog]

Observations and "what ifs"

The girls had to plead for permission to walk to the bridge but the Plackers left them alone at home? No, I don’t think so. I suspect Uncle Joe was at the Placker house or in the area and they knew it. Can we believe his story that he saw the girls walking towards home? Was that a statement made to distance himself from the murder? (“Don’t look at me! They were alive when I saw them.”) I also wonder why the Plackers were concerned about Taylor going to the bridge. It was not far and she was 13. Did they know it was a place where drug deals went down?
From Tom’s Girl: “It was up the family & friends of these victims to keep their loved ones in the news in any manner they could, these families have not done that.” I think that the family knows who did the killing. Maybe not the specific individuals but that it had to have been from a group or gang who were on the bridge to buy drugs. Taylor’s father (gf) said that “they” cannot hurt the family any worse than they had already. Was that a message to the killers? “Mosher said the families have laid their trust in the hands of the Okfuskee County Sheriff's Department and the OSBI to find the killers.” Was that a message to the killers that the family was not talking?
I think Taylor was the target. I think she was probably on the walk that day to deliver drugs to someone on the bridge. For Uncle Joe? She knew people from the gang and felt comfortable with them. The Z with the slashes is a gang symbol. If it represented the actors’ name then why, when the names were written out on her body, did the Z not have slashes on it?
I suspect Uncle Joe was at the Placker house to meet the people to sell the drugs and sent Taylor to make the delivery. The purse that Taylor carried could have been used to carry drugs and the money for the payment. Perhaps Joe tried to “cheat” the buyer and never considered that he was putting Taylor and Skyla in danger because he didn’t think it would be noticed. Or maybe he just didn’t care.
I don’t think Joe was a shooter. He was on the murder site shortly afterwards. The shooter had to have blood on his clothes and Joe did not. It would have been noticed.
On the walk back Taylor and Skyla could have been confronted by the buyers. Perhaps one of them struck her in the face causing the injury, but if she knew them she might not have realized the extent of the danger.
Taylor’s hand had a wound that indicated that the hand was closed with the fingers toward her. Am I remembering that right? If the hand had been held out in a defensive way, I think it would have been open with the palm toward the shooter. If it had been a protective gesture, I think it would have been open but with the palm toward her face. But the hand was closed. Was she handing money from the drug deal back to the shooter?
I know I don’t sound sympathetic towards the girls but I am. But the family has so many bad apples that their way of life must have been a life that most of us cannot understand. Even the worst of the family were accepted and welcomed. If my brother were like Uncle Joe, he would not have gotten near my two sons. From an early age Taylor must have seen and heard things and known people who did all kinds of crimes. Children are formed, in part, from their environment and my sympathy for Taylor is that she never had a chance. I think making the delivery would be no big deal to her. Just life as she knew it.
Perhaps the POI saw the bodies in the ditch and drove on. Was he sick? Perhaps he had to stop his truck suddenly and thus did not pull it out of the road because he was sick. Is he not coming forward because of fear that he will be targeted?
I would guess two shooters and a little older than “kids” because I think kids would have slipped up and talked or been found out. The shooter(s) seem to be more experienced and hardened.
Sorry for the length. I don’t post often but sure make up for it when I do. J Maggie


I agree with many of the things you say. Uncle Joe could have sent the girls to pay for drugs with money in a sealed envelope inside the purse. They gave the money to the shooter/shooters and started back home. After they left, the shooter/shooters opened the envelope, counted the money and realized they'd been short changed and they went into a rage, chased the girls down and killed them.

[YellowDog]

When it says the direction of the bullet the reference point is the victim.

Wound no. 1, direction forward, means the bullet is moving to the front of Skyla. Entrance posterior means what it means. There is no way she was facing the shooter when wound no. 1 happened.

If you go to the bottom of Skyla's autopsy it has a back view of a torso and a frontal view or a torso, the drawings go side to side, not up and down. The wounds are numbered. If wound no. 1 has an ent. on the back view and an exit on the front view, she wasn't shot from the front.

The full body views with the bodies standing erect aren't showing body wounds they are showing holes in the clothes.

Albert, I agree with you. Entrance in my vocabulary means that is where the bullet entered the body and exit means that is where the bullet exited. It's so plain to see on those drawings.

[DLTinOKLA]

I just took another long look at the entrance wounds on the autopsy reports. I misread the reports the first time I looked at them. (Also why does the autopsy say diameter on a few of entrance wounds and width on most??? I think there are some mistakes on the reports between the first listing wound size and then the data sheet list. So it is confusing and the reason I made a mistake the first time I looked!) The entrance wounds on Skyla are . 5 .5 . 4 .6 .5 .5 .3 .4 . All these wounds had to come from a small bullet. I measured both a .22 rimfire and a .223 bullet and they are consistent with the .5 size. ( I just have a ruler to measure with so its not exact, but you can get a good idea on what size of weapons were used.) The smallest bullet I have is a .17 hmr it is consistent with the .3 and .4 size of wound. On Taylor the size of entrance wounds are .5 .3 .7 1.5 1.5 (why so large????) The 1.5 wounds on Taylor are the groin shot and the hand shot. I don't really have a bullet to compare these size of wounds but I would guess they have to be .44-45 caliber range.

So here are just a few of my thoughts and questions that just make this senseless murder even more complicated.

1) I think there might of been at least 3 weapons used. Has LE ever just came out and said for sure how many weapons or shooters? I think they just said more than 1.

2) Even though Skyla was shot more times, she wasn't shot with the much larger weapon.

3) Notice the larger wounds on Taylor was both the groin and hand shot? Could she possibly of been trying to protect herself from being shot there instead of protecting her face as many believe and even the autopsy suggests?

4) 11 out of 13 wounds were caused by smaller caliber weapon(s.)

5) Taylor had abrasions on her left knee, ankle and arm. Could she had fallen trying to get away from the killers or did something happen down at the bridge that caused these abrasions?

6) Skyla's neck shot left some powder residue which means the shooter walked up to her to finish her off. (Neck or behind the ear shots are typical of what hunters would do to finish an animal off after wounding it.)

7) Taylor also had a small amount of power residue too on one of her face shots.

With the caliber of weapons possibly used and the placement of the shots I'm looking at the murderer(s) having a hunting background, not an experienced hitman.

[Claycat]

DLT, abrasions are common when someone has been shot. They fall suddenly, just as if they tripped and fell.

[FlowerChild]

I just took another long look at the entrance wounds on the autopsy reports. I misread the reports the first time I looked at them. (Also why does the autopsy say diameter on a few of entrance wounds and width on most??? I think there are some mistakes on the reports between the first listing wound size and then the data sheet list. So it is confusing and the reason I made a mistake the first time I looked!) The entrance wounds on Skyla are . 5 .5 . 4 .6 .5 .5 .3 .4 . All these wounds had to come from a small bullet. I measured both a .22 rimfire and a .223 bullet and they are consistent with the .5 size. ( I just have a ruler to measure with so its not exact, but you can get a good idea on what size of weapons were used.) The smallest bullet I have is a .17 hmr it is consistent with the .3 and .4 size of wound. On Taylor the size of entrance wounds are .5 .3 .7 1.5 1.5 (why so large????) The 1.5 wounds on Taylor are the groin shot and the hand shot. I don't really have a bullet to compare these size of wounds but I would guess they have to be .44-45 caliber range.

So here are just a few of my thoughts and questions that just make this senseless murder even more complicated.

1) I think there might of been at least 3 weapons used. Has LE ever just came out and said for sure how many weapons or shooters? I think they just said more than 1.

2) Even though Skyla was shot more times, she wasn't shot with the much larger weapon.

3) Notice the larger wounds on Taylor was both the groin and hand shot? Could she possibly of been trying to protect herself from being shot there instead of protecting her face as many believe and even the autopsy suggests?

4) 11 out of 13 wounds were caused by smaller caliber weapon(s.)

5) Taylor had abrasions on her left knee, ankle and arm. Could she had fallen trying to get away from the killers or did something happen down at the bridge that caused these abrasions?

6) Skyla's neck shot left some powder residue which means the shooter walked up to her to finish her off. (Neck or behind the ear shots are typical of what hunters would do to finish an animal off after wounding it.)

7) Taylor also had a small amount of power residue too on one of her face shots.

With the caliber of weapons possibly used and the placement of the shots I'm looking at the murderer(s) having a hunting background, not an experienced hitman.
Skyla was shot with the larger gun - they were both shot with both guns - think they note the "larger" "smaller" bullets.

[DLTinOKLA]

Skyla was shot with the larger gun - they were both shot with both guns - think they note the "larger" "smaller" bullets.

If by larger you mean the .5 compared to .3 or .4 yes I would agree. But she definitely wasn't shot with the 1.5 size of bullet. The autopsy has an error on III. At the bottom it says "entrance wound" when it should of said exit. The entrance wound has already been stated at the beginning with .4 You can tell this by looking lower at the date sheet listing it correctly list the entrance wound as .4 and exit as 1.7.

So I'm I missing something? Where else does it say she was shot with a larger weapon?

[DLTinOKLA]

Skyla was shot with the larger gun - they were both shot with both guns - think they note the "larger" "smaller" bullets.

I read it again and yes it does say medium size bullet was found with wound v and a small size with wound viii. But the entrance size on wound v is .4 and on wound viii is .5. Also it says the bullet found on wound v is damaged so maybe its hard to tell the size?? I don't know. But I do know that is a big difference from an entrance wound found on taylor of 1.5! That is why I'm asking, could we have three weapons here and not just two? I'm sure the OSBI knows all these answers and even know the weapons used. But we don't know and I'm just trying to help us come up with some answers because they won't tell us.

[cloudajo]

There are several family of Plackers that live in that direct area.

Thanks Missing Sarah.

If I do a search of Plackers in Weleetka it shows 8 people. Do you know if those below are all relatives?

1 Charles Placker
2 Darrell Placker
3 James Placker
4 Joseph Placker (Peter’s brother)
5 Linda K Placker (Peter & Vicky’s daughter)
6 Peter Placker (Taylor’s gfather)
7 Ruth Placker
8 Vicky Placker (Taylor’s gmother)

http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/ala/newsearch?&searchLName=Placker&searchState=OK&searchCity=weleetka&adID=619100D754&adsource=9&TID=0&cid=people&searchtab=people (http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/ala/newsearch?&searchLName=Placker&searchState=OK&searchCity=weleetka&adID=619100D754&adsource=9&TID=0&cid=people&searchtab=people)

[cloudajo]

Does anyone know if/how Charles & Ruth Placker are related to Peter?

If I look in the court records, it shows that there was a claim filed against Charles & Ruth Placker & All Occupants for a residence (multiple dwellings?) in Oklahoma City in May 2007, and it sounds like they were booted out in June.

Did they migrate to Weleetka and did trouble follow?

For instance, does anyone know if this James A. Placker who is listed in Weleetka is a relative? He is 22 and has a record for burglary, 2nd degree and it says the term code is Drug Court, Apr 2008. The mug shot is from July 2008.

This may have been posted before but I didn't see anything in the family thread so I may have missed.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=542947&offender_book_id=323315&imageindex=1 (http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=542947&offender_book_id=323315&imageindex=1)

[GetSmart]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68034

FlowerChild posted alot of info at this thread. We have been in & out of so many criminal record searches for this family it is unreal.

Plus if you email Miss Holmes she will help you get into the family tree she created

[Albert18]

With the caliber of weapons possibly used and the placement of the shots I'm looking at the murderer(s) having a hunting background, not an experienced hitman.

I'm sure thinking that type of person also. Younger local punks.

I think the 1.5 entrance wound is distorted because the bullet entered at such a low angle. That is Taylor's groin wound.

LE did say two guns were used and one bullet is described as small and the other as medium in size. So what is a medium sized gun?

[Missing Sarah]

Does anyone know if/how Charles & Ruth Placker are related to Peter?

If I look in the court records, it shows that there was a claim filed against Charles & Ruth Placker & All Occupants for a residence (multiple dwellings?) in Oklahoma City in May 2007, and it sounds like they were booted out in June.

Did they migrate to Weleetka and did trouble follow?

For instance, does anyone know if this James A. Placker who is listed in Weleetka is a relative? He is 22 and has a record for burglary, 2nd degree and it says the term code is Drug Court, Apr 2008. The mug shot is from July 2008.

This may have been posted before but I didn't see anything in the family thread so I may have missed.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=542947&offender_book_id=323315&imageindex=1 (http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=542947&offender_book_id=323315&imageindex=1)

they Charles Jr....is the son of Charles which is Peters brother..and also lives very near Charles Jr, Crystal and Peter/Vicky

[cloudajo]

GS & MS - thanks.

[Bargle]

LE did say two guns were used and one bullet is described as small and the other as medium in size. So what is a medium sized gun?
Medium caliber would be in the following group.
38 Special
38 S&W
357 Magnum
380 ACP
9mm
32 Special
32 Auto.
Possibly 40 caliber

I did this from memory, so a couple of the names may be a bit off.

[s_finch]

"The Z with the slashes is a gang symbol. If it represented the actors’ name then why, when the names were written out on her body, did the Z not have slashes on it?"

I haven't read up on this case in a while, can someone please explain the above quoted sentence?

TIA

[Missing Sarah]

I agree with many of the things you say. Uncle Joe could have sent the girls to pay for drugs with money in a sealed envelope inside the purse. They gave the money to the shooter/shooters and started back home. After they left, the shooter/shooters opened the envelope, counted the money and realized they'd been short changed and they went into a rage, chased the girls down and killed them.

that sounds really way out there. I can't see that happening at all

[Mysterylover]

I just took another long look at the entrance wounds on the autopsy reports. I misread the reports the first time I looked at them. (Also why does the autopsy say diameter on a few of entrance wounds and width on most??? I think there are some mistakes on the reports between the first listing wound size and then the data sheet list. So it is confusing and the reason I made a mistake the first time I looked!)

The entrance wounds on Skyla are . 5 .5 . 4 .6 .5 .5 .3 .4 . All these wounds had to come from a small bullet. I measured both a .22 rimfire and a .223 bullet and they are consistent with the .5 size.

( I just have a ruler to measure with so its not exact, but you can get a good idea on what size of weapons were used.) The smallest bullet I have is a .17 hmr it is consistent with the .3 and .4 size of wound.

On Taylor the size of entrance wounds are .5 .3 .7 1.5 1.5 (why so large????) The 1.5 wounds on Taylor are the groin shot and the hand shot.

I don't really have a bullet to compare these size of wounds but I would guess they have to be .44-45 caliber range.

So here are just a few of my thoughts and questions that just make this senseless murder even more complicated.

1) I think there might of been at least 3 weapons used. Has LE ever just came out and said for sure how many weapons or shooters? I think they just said more than 1.

2) Even though Skyla was shot more times, she wasn't shot with the much larger weapon.

3) Notice the larger wounds on Taylor was both the groin and hand shot? Could she possibly of been trying to protect herself from being shot there instead of protecting her face as many believe and even the autopsy suggests?

4) 11 out of 13 wounds were caused by smaller caliber weapon(s.)

5) Taylor had abrasions on her left knee, ankle and arm. Could she had fallen trying to get away from the killers or did something happen down at the bridge that caused these abrasions?

6) Skyla's neck shot left some powder residue which means the shooter walked up to her to finish her off. (Neck or behind the ear shots are typical of what hunters would do to finish an animal off after wounding it.)

7) Taylor also had a small amount of power residue too on one of her face shots.

With the caliber of weapons possibly used and the placement of the shots I'm looking at the murderer(s) having a hunting background, not an experienced hitman.

DLT...very good information, and excellent points.

You mentioned a .223 bullet, is that bullet fired from a hunting rifle?

I think it's a good possibility the injuries to T.'s left leg were gotten, before the shooting occurred.

I can not see how her Left ankle would have gotten scraped from falling in the dirt road after being shot.

If I remember correctly, T. was NOT found laying on her left side, but more toward he right side and back. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Another question: Does Blood splattering over the right shin mean T. was standing in order to make this splattering from the wound?

Quote:
There are small red-gray abrasions Over the left
Knee and red abrasions over the Left Ankle and Back of the left Arm.

There is blood spattering over the right shin.

[YellowDog]

that sounds really way out there. I can't see that happening at all

If drugs are involved, anything is possible.

[Dr. Pennypacker]

.223 = M16 or AR15
assault rifles

[christine2448]

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:blowkiss: TIA

[Bargle]

You mentioned a .223 bullet, is that bullet fired from a hunting rifle?
It's usually a rifle round. As Dr. Pennypacker says above, it's most commonly an assault rifle round, but there are some hunting rifles that use it. There are also a few semi-auto pistols th