Two Oklahoma Girls (11 & 13yo) Found Murdered #17

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here.

Look around. There is a forum on this topic/case (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=162), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.



Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.

Newbies....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.
__________________

[Tom'sGirl]

Thanks Christine!

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Christine!

OK Back to the subject of meth labs and locals. Yes, I believe FC sources are "out of loop" when it comes to the extent of drugs in the area. I have it on good authority there are major problems in and around that area. The locals could be oblivious to it because of the reasons I stated before. Some of these are the people they grew up with and tend to still trust even if they are a bit "shady". We all know those types. We don't consider them to be dangerous, but we also don't know who their connections are anymore.

I have always thought drugs/guns were part of this. I tend to think it more today because of lack of movement towards a resolve in this case. I do have to think they were strangers with local ties and the reason they can't find out any information on the shooters. I also think the local connection may be from Bryant and not from Weleetka...but may live in the Tulsa area now.

[Just Nose'n around]

Again as far as 'shady' activity and LE. I know there was an instance a few years back in Okmulgee Co where some guys were busted for drugs, they leaked the name of who they got it from. LE bust him and he leaks another name. That name was of a Henryettan who was well known in the community with LE connections. When local LE found out his name had been leaked, they warned him to 'get the heck out of Dodge' until the situation ended. All of a sudden locals realize he's gone and a few months later, he showed back up. Again, this was a few years ago, but I'm almost certain 'shady' activity such as that would still go on.

[Just Nose'n around]

Also, regarding the Keloughs, someone had mentioned that one of them was a Lighthorseman and had offered LE his help but was told it wasn't needed. With what I know about the Keloughs, the woman and son 'hear' shots, the ex-Lighthorseman offers 'help'. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if that is all just a 'cover up'.

IMO

[c2cd208]

OK I am fed up with my internet connection today. I have been trying for hours now to upload the pictures and my service is in and out and I dont know why, but normally my service is fairly well. So much for so called Mobile Broadband huh. I am going to set the thing to upload and maybe by the time we get up in the morning they will have made it to our server.

[Fairy1]

Thanks, Christine!

OK Back to the subject of meth labs and locals. Yes, I believe FC sources are "out of loop" when it comes to the extent of drugs in the area. I have it on good authority there are major problems in and around that area. The locals could be oblivious to it because of the reasons I stated before. Some of these are the people they grew up with and tend to still trust even if they are a bit "shady". We all know those types. We don't consider them to be dangerous, but we also don't know who their connections are anymore.

I have always thought drugs/guns were part of this. I tend to think it more today because of lack of movement towards a resolve in this case. I do have to think they were strangers with local ties and the reason they can't find out any information on the shooters. I also think the local connection may be from Bryant and not from Weleetka...but may live in the Tulsa area now.

I don't consider the locals "out of the loop" at all! It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I actually lived in a small town, but I do believe everybody knows everyone's business in these communities. People talk, gossip, speculate, etc. I believe the local folks are an extremely valuable resource!!! Are you saying they have their heads buried in the sand?

I will not say that I don't believe drugs or other unlawful activities were at play in this case. These things are a part of MOST violent crimes. Still, there is a huge tangled web to work through here, based on what we have learned. I will give LE the benefit of the doubt here. If 1/2 of what we have learned here is accurate, they have their work cut out for them!

[SeriouslySearching]

I said, "FC's sources" not the locals as a whole. Please don't take my words out of context. Her "source" claimed there was no problem with drug activity going on in the area. Now, do they have their head in the sand? I can't speak to that as I don't know why they would not recognize what actually goes on.

[sheza]

I don't consider the locals "out of the loop" at all! It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I actually lived in a small town, but I do believe everybody knows everyone's business in these communities. People talk, gossip, speculate, etc. I believe the local folks are an extremely valuable resource!!! Are you saying they have their heads buried in the sand?

I will not say that I don't believe drugs or other unlawful activities were at play in this case. These things are a part of MOST violent crimes. Still, there is a huge tangled web to work through here, based on what we have learned. I will give LE the benefit of the doubt here. If 1/2 of what we have learned here is accurate, they have their work cut out for them!

Thank you Fairy1
I don't feel the drug problem in Weleetka is greater than any other small town.
When the drug statistics were looked at, it was for all Okfuskee Co. and I think they added Okmulgee Co. also (the area).
We pray every second of the day these evil murderers will be found.

[c2cd208]

Well after spending most of the day thinking something was wrong with our internet we just found out a little while ago it is not our internet, but a problem with our server in which I was trying to upload these pictures to. So I have uploaded them to my photobucket. Here is the link to that album http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v397/mstweety/WeleetkaOklahoma/

[Fairy1]

I said, "FC's sources" not the locals as a whole. Please don't take my words out of context. Her "source" claimed there was no problem with drug activity going on in the area. Now, do they have their head in the sand? I can't speak to that as I don't know why they would not recognize what actually goes on.

You clearly have an issue with FC - don't know why. I do not believe you know her sources personally nor why you feel the need to question them. But are you actually in WELEETKA? If not, you cannot speak to the day-to-day life there right now. I did NOT take your words out of context. You clearly have your own opinions pertaining to this case; as do we all. At this point, all positions are valid. IMO...

[Fairy1]

Thank you Fairy1
I don't feel the drug problem in Weleetka is greater than any other small town.
When the drug statistics were looked at, it was for all Okfuskee Co. and I think they added Okmulgee Co. also (the area).
We pray every second of the day these evil murderers will be found.

No worries, Sheza. Drugs - and particularly meth - is a huge problem everywhere. Doesn't mean this case did or did not have anything to do with it!

[SeriouslySearching]

You clearly have an issue with FC - don't know why. I do not believe you know her sources personally nor why you feel the need to question them. But are you actually in WELEETKA? If not, you cannot speak to the day-to-day life there right now. I did NOT take your words out of context. You clearly have your own opinions pertaining to this case; as do we all. At this point, all positions are valid. IMO...The problem I have is that they won't come here and speak for themselves plus I find them to be inaccurate in what they are saying "through" FC. How can we question them?! No, I don't know her "sources" personally and would love to "question" them...but we will never get that chance.

Yes, we all do have opinions and they are all welcome here. I have every right to disagree with them. We have been on this roller coaster ride of weird theories for weeks going into months now. Are we any further than we were the day the girls were murdered? No. Do we need to figure out why? Yes. It means we have not been on the right path to find the real answers and neither has LE that we can tell. So after the wild goose chases...we do need to start over and go with our first gut reactions. Mine was the drug/gun dealer theory.

[Fairy1]

The problem I have is that they won't come here and speak for themselves plus I find them to be inaccurate in what they are saying "through" FC. How can we question them?! No, I don't know her "sources" personally and would love to "question" them...but we will never get that chance.

Yes, we all do have opinions and they are all welcome here. I have every right to disagree with them. We have been on this roller coaster ride of weird theories for weeks going into months now. Are we any further than we were the day the girls were murdered? No. Do we need to figure out why? Yes. It means we have not been on the right path to find the real answers and neither has LE that we can tell. So after the wild goose chases...we do need to start over and go with our first gut reactions. Mine was the drug/gun dealer theory.

We are discussing VERY SMALL COMMUNITIES here. If members of those communities are hesitant or afraid to come here and speak their minds, I respect and understand that. By the same token, I am grateful to those who do come here!

Of course you have a right to disagree with the opinions of others. But, at this point, it is still completely open to speculation - from our perspective.
We DO NOT KNOW what LE knows and until they divulge more details, we all can only speculate. As I've said, there are many players in these families who may be connected....or not. We just don't know. I am not willing to shoot down any possible scenario until we know more and I do not wish to make anyone feel stupid for their opinions. I, personally, am grateful for ALL of the input on this board.

[SeriouslySearching]

I have not called or intimated that anyone is "stupid" here. I welcome the input of the locals! I think it is great they have joined us on this case. Speak up!! Everyone is welcome!

[sheza]

The problem I have is that they won't come here and speak for themselves plus I find them to be inaccurate in what they are saying "through" FC. How can we question them?! No, I don't know her "sources" personally and would love to "question" them...but we will never get that chance.

Yes, we all do have opinions and they are all welcome here. I have every right to disagree with them. We have been on this roller coaster ride of weird theories for weeks going into months now. Are we any further than we were the day the girls were murdered? No. Do we need to figure out why? Yes. It means we have not been on the right path to find the real answers and neither has LE that we can tell. So after the wild goose chases...we do need to start over and go with our first gut reactions. Mine was the drug/gun dealer theory.

If you find FC source inaccurate, you are welcome to ask me I've lived in Weleetka all my life maybe I can help. You can question me.

[SeriouslySearching]

Well after spending most of the day thinking something was wrong with our internet we just found out a little while ago it is not our internet, but a problem with our server in which I was trying to upload these pictures to. So I have uploaded them to my photobucket. Here is the link to that album http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v397/mstweety/WeleetkaOklahoma/Thanks, C2cd! I was glad to hear they at least had a poster up, but I do have to question why the POI's poster wasn't there, too?! HE is the person they need to find!! HIS FACE needs to be out everywhere!! The photos are great!

I said from early on that they should check out every gas station from every direction with the sketch of the perp and description of that truck to determine if he had been there either before or after the murders. It would make sense for him to have been at one of those at some point during that Sunday, imo.

[Claycat]

Well after spending most of the day thinking something was wrong with our internet we just found out a little while ago it is not our internet, but a problem with our server in which I was trying to upload these pictures to. So I have uploaded them to my photobucket. Here is the link to that album http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v397/mstweety/WeleetkaOklahoma/

Thanks for the photos. I remember someone saying something about that Kellogg's Restaurant when I had picked up on Poptarts.

[FlowerChild]

Sorry, my source has his good reasons for NOT being identified or posting here - he isn't willing to risk his job (or his family) so he can placate a few posters here who want to "question" him. His information has been good (as to what was presented as FACT) - otherwise he is merely passing along information from the area and from his personal interactions with LE as someone living fairly close to the crime scene.

People can choose to believe or disbelieve ANYTHING. My source says meth/drugs have NOT been a problem in the immediate area of the crime scene. Much more in other areas and on more isolated properties on tribal lands (which Tribal LE is responsible for). At this time, the crime scene area has a quite heavy presence of LE from both the ground and the air. LE has not found any indication of a nearby meth lab, pot field, or drug house. The section of the road the girls were killed on is fairly heavily traveled - it is part of the fastest route between outlying areas including rural Graham/Bryant to US 75. LE does not see it being a good location for anyone attempting to "hide" their activities from passers-by or LE. And LE does patrol many of these rural areas by helicopter using night scopes, heat detection and infrared devices - looking for drugs, meth labs, pot growers etc.

According to those who have spoken directly with members of Local LE and the OSBI - the investigators presently do not see drugs being a component of this particular crime. They are looking at several possible motives and triggers - but have pretty much eliminated the sexual assault and drug related ones, based on what they currently know. And LE is in constant investigation mode, they are knocking on doors and talking to people who live near the crime scene and are asking THEM to make them aware of any questionable activities or issues they feel might have releveance to the crime. Skyla's GP's, The Farrows work at the Farm up the road from the crime scene DAILY - I think we can assume THEY are in constant investigation mode and would report even the SMALLEST thing they saw or heard to LE.

I developed my own source for this crime because I wanted to find someone I could TRUST and who might be in a position to "know" what is going on both locally and with the investigation. People can choose whether the are interested in my information or not, I have been very clear why I cannot ID my source and when I give info I clearly state whether it should be considered a rumor or fact. I am an Oklahoma Girl and I spent most of my life in OK and I have multiple family members who live there - in both rural and urban areas. This is the 1st time I have ever had the connections to get inside info on a crime and I am going to keep passing along what I find out. The person I am dealing with is never going to go on TV, speak to the media or join a crime solving forum or post on any forum on associated subjects or be ID'd on one. I made a promise and I will keep it and everyone here can believe or discount anything I post.

My Opinion

[ArizonaGiGi]

Well after spending most of the day thinking something was wrong with our internet we just found out a little while ago it is not our internet, but a problem with our server in which I was trying to upload these pictures to. So I have uploaded them to my photobucket. Here is the link to that album http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v397/mstweety/WeleetkaOklahoma/

C2 thanks for the photos.
Is that the little cafe that Uncle Joe was supposedly yapping at the night of the murders? :confused:

[sheza]

Could not sleep....Taylors autopsy report...look at the head view under the eye (red abrasions and contusion over the right upper cheek/ evidence of injury- bottom of page)
Did he hit her first with something- maybe the butt of a gun- Taylor must of seen he was going to strike her puts her hand up to stop the object? Above the bullet wound on her finger also has a mark similar to the abrasion under her eye.
I may be reaching but could this wound hold DNA? (killer holds the gun/object then hits Taylor) his hand maybe a ring?? while she's holding her hand up after he strikes her-(the girls may not have even seen a gun at first) then he pulls a gun out and shoots her - she would still have her hand up to her face.
Can anyone else see this happening? You can tell me if I'm crazy-way off.

[Busylady]

I hadnt notice the abrasion under the eye first, very good possibility that she was struck with something, lets hope and pray it did leave the killers DNA. Good catch!

Could not sleep....Taylors autopsy report...look at the head view under the eye (red abrasions and contusion over the right upper cheek/ evidence of injury- bottom of page)
Did he hit her first with something- maybe the butt of a gun- Taylor must of seen he was going to strike her puts her hand up to stop the object? Above the bullet wound on her finger also has a mark similar to the abrasion under her eye.
I may be reaching but could this wound hold DNA? (killer holds the gun/object then hits Taylor) his hand maybe a ring?? while she's holding her hand up after he strikes her-(the girls may not have even seen a gun at first) then he pulls a gun out and shoots her - she would still have her hand up to her face.
Can anyone else see this happening? You can tell me if I'm crazy-way off.

[KeyboardPlayer]

Hi all, longtime reader, "every-now-and-then" contributor... Does anyone know if it is possible to get one of those "In Memory -- BFF" wrist bands for Taylor and Skyla? I know they were giving them out at their school, but I didn't know if I could get one... I want to wear it until they find the !@#$$@!%^%$! who did this to them. Thanks!

[YellowDog]

If drugs played a part in this, I don't think it was a meth lab out in the open. The girls may have been sent to meet someone on or near the bridge to exchange money for drugs (hence the purse to carry both in) and didn't bring enough money or the drugs were not what they were sent to retrieve and a conflict ensued escalating to murder.
Why would Taylor lug a purse along on a hot summer day just to take a walk to the bridge and back. No place to spend money along the way, so why? I think the purse may hold a clue in this case.

[YellowDog]

Sorry, my source has his good reasons for NOT being identified or posting here - he isn't willing to risk his job (or his family) so he can placate a few posters here who want to "question" him. His information has been good (as to what was presented as FACT) - otherwise he is merely passing along information from the area and from his personal interactions with LE as someone living fairly close to the crime scene.


Is this someone you know personally and have met with face to face? Just curious as to how close to the case he is.

[Mysterylover]

Thanks for the photos. I remember someone saying something about that

Kellogg's Restaurant when I had picked up on Poptarts.......

ClayCat...How did you arrive at the vision of 'poptarts? did you see it or hear it?
When I looked at the picture of Kellogg's restaurant, I notice the sign above it that said "jackpots"...could you have mistaken jackpots for pop-tarts? thought I'd mention it.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v397/mstweety/WeleetkaOklahoma/

[Albert18]

Could not sleep....Taylors autopsy report...look at the head view under the eye (red abrasions and contusion over the right upper cheek/ evidence of injury- bottom of page)
Did he hit her first with something- maybe the butt of a gun- Taylor must of seen he was going to strike her puts her hand up to stop the object? Above the bullet wound on her finger also has a mark similar to the abrasion under her eye.

It does make you wonder if she was hit first. If he was close enough to hit her it may mean she was able to touch him with her fingernails. When he shot though he was far enough away not to leave residue with those shots.

I don't know what is going on with her right hand. The bullet hit on the back of her hand so she didn't have it positioned like she was pushing somebody away. There was a lot of damage to her hand with the bullet hole in the knuckle and the middle finger having a compound fracture and all the lacerations to the palm side of that finger. I wonder if she had her hand in a fist?

See it helps to type it out. I think my confusion about the hand is because I am getting my ups and downs mixed up. To me "up" on a hand is towards the tips of the fingers but I bet "up" is towards the wrist. That makes sense.

I bet the bullet entered the back of her hand at the knuckle and traveled in the finger towards the tip of her finger. That is what caused all the lacerations to the palm side of her finger. I can't see where they draw in an exit wound for that shot, maybe that is the circle on the joint at the end of her finger.

[c2cd208]

do have to question why the POI's poster wasn't there, too?! HE is the person they need to find!! HIS FACE needs to be out everywhere!!
No POI posters anywhere. I asked way not a POI poster, one person I talked to said it did not matter, nothing would be gained from the sketch. But still not REAL reason why the poster did not have the sketch on it. Even if that local did not think the sketch would do any good, I feel it still should have been there.
Thanks for the photos. I remember someone saying something about that Kellogg's Restaurant when I had picked up on Poptarts.
Where you see "Kellogg's", that is a billboard behind Cowpoke's Cafe. Kellogg's is where we were sleeping the first night this bothered me really bad and made me come back to this case. At Kellogg's as of the last time I was there, no posters, and not a word uttered there. From Where we were yesterday @ Cowpokes it is another nine miles West on the interstate to the exit #221 for Kellogg's, but both of these exits are in VERY close proximity to Weleetka.

Next time I stop there I want to get some pictures to show you all some more stuff. I seen some very easy ways that someone could just "poof" be gone in how the roads are laid out. For instance, say you at the driveway of the gas station pictured, if you look to the North which would be on my left if I were sitting in the parking lot facing the road, the state maintained highway ENDS right at the gas station and turns into a gravel county road. Then there at the picture I took of the road signs to show where I was, I meant to get more of the left of what I did, that is the road that will take you South towards town. These roads may and may not have a dang thing to do with the route the perp took, but if what I seen is any indication of how the roads work in the area, it would be nothing for someone who KNOWS the area to get anywhere by county road.

SHEZA sorry you could not rest. I too seen the abrasions. If you go back to the thread that was closed yesterday I offered my theroy on this. What you have and what I have could esily work together.

On the 12th I said: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2491615&postcount=415
I just re-read the report. Taylor shows abrasions, with there being a bullet hole in her right hand and abrasions on her left side it seems to me that she put her right hand up in defence mode and fell on her left side. I believe that one of the shots to the face is one of the shots that went through her hand. The face shots were first IMO then the others. The bullet wound to the abdomin to me seems like it was made after she fell and was on the ground, like the attacker(s) were standing at her feet or close to her feet when that shot was fired.
I want to get some clay and do some experiments when I get home to see how I could further justify this.

[tapu]

The problem I have is that they won't come here and speak for themselves plus I find them to be inaccurate in what they are saying "through" FC. How can we question them?! No, I don't know her "sources" personally and would love to "question" them...but we will never get that chance.

Yes, we all do have opinions and they are all welcome here. I have every right to disagree with them. We have been on this roller coaster ride of weird theories for weeks going into months now. Are we any further than we were the day the girls were murdered? No. Do we need to figure out why? Yes. It means we have not been on the right path to find the real answers and neither has LE that we can tell. So after the wild goose chases...we do need to start over and go with our first gut reactions. Mine was the drug/gun dealer theory.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but linguistically speaking, if you don't want to consider information from this kind of source, then you can only go by info from posters.

What if you just stated your opinions about various information without targeting specific people here? You could still think that drugs were involved, for example.

That just seems like the more civil way to proceed.

(oh yeah--my opinion :))

[tapu]

The info re the POI sketch is so weird.... It seems they would either promote it, or officially pull it. This abandonment of such a clue is confusing.

[c2cd208]

Remember the statement was an opinion of the person I spoke with. The place of business can only display what they are provided which was the case.

[Tom'sGirl]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but linguistically speaking, if you don't want to consider information from this kind of source, then you can only go by info from posters.

What if you just stated your opinions about various information without targeting specific people here? You could still think that drugs were involved, for example.

That just seems like the more civil way to proceed.

(oh yeah--my opinion :))


It's very hard for those who've followed cases on other Forums here at WS to go on hearsay, rumor, or second hand information.

It doesn't mean they aren't factual, but rather without verification and should be taken as such. Sometimes a rumor morphs into what will go on the Internet as fact when someone researches.

Everyone has a right to dispute information that hasn't been backed up by the source by a poster. That's what we do here at Websleuths, dispute and discuss what our take is regarding what's posted.

[Ann Fan]

This thought just came to mind - I am relatively new to this so it may have been posted before - if so, please forgive me. Regarding the DNA testing - is it possible they could use the new 'touch dna' that has been a recently used technique - wouldn't the shooter have had to 'touch' the bullets in order to load them into the gun in the first place? It's just a thought - wishful thinking maybe on my part.

[Ann Fan]

I have no idea if that type of DNA would remain on the bullet after being shot through the gun. Perhaps some of you would know if it is at all possible??

[Tom'sGirl]

I have no idea if that type of DNA would remain on the bullet after being shot through the gun. Perhaps some of you would know if it is at all possible??
There are two parts to a bullet, the casing and the cartridge. The casing doesn't pass through the barrel. Prints can be lifted off the casings.

http://i36.tinypic.com/rrnz11.jpg

[oceanblueeyes]

There are two parts to a bullet, the casing and the cartridge. The casing doesn't pass through the barrel. Prints can be lifted off the casings.

http://i36.tinypic.com/rrnz11.jpg

From what I have read in the past it is difficult to get fingerprints off of casings due to the very slick, smooth surface. However I have heard of a new technique that the British are using and usually they are the first to devise such new testing like they were the first ones to use DNA testing.

This links talks about it some.

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/E88FD217-1618-4765-912F-DB20445FB39B/

[Albert18]

It's very hard for those who've followed cases on other Forums here at WS to go on hearsay, rumor, or second hand information.

It doesn't mean they aren't factual, but rather without verification and should be taken as such. Sometimes a rumor morphs into what will go on the Internet as fact when someone researches.

Everyone has a right to dispute information that hasn't been backed up by the source by a poster. That's what we do here at Websleuths, dispute and discuss what our take is regarding what's posted.


But a trap catches more when it is baited with something sweet rather than something sour and distasteful. Constantly harping about what people are posting is sour and distasteful. It drives people away from the case and the forum.

The fact the Plackers may not have been home that afternoon is a good example. As far as I know that is just a rumor but it is a biggie. It is hard to discuss it to get it beyond the rumor stage if the people who brought it to the forum are chased and beaten.

[YellowDog]

Albert, I think establishing whether or not the Plackers were or were not at home when the girls left for their walk is VERY important. I still remember when Peter Placker said at the site of the bodies, "THEY can't hurt me anymore than THEY already have". Did he know who THEY were? The Plackers may know who killed the girls if the shooter/shooters were out to get to them in some way. The Plackers moving so quickly after the shootings makes me think they might be running scared.

I'd also like to know whether Taylor, Vicky and Peter each had their own cell phone. Sometime families share them. At first people were saying Peter used Taylor's phone to make the 911 call. If he had a cell phone of his own, wouldn't he have used that? Didn't the Plackers say that they called Taylor and couldn't get an answer on her cell phone. Did they use a land line, Vicky's cell phone or Peter's cell phone? Did they have a land line?

I still keep going back to the fact that no one at the Placker house (if anyone was home)
heard the shots from only a half mile away.

The time frame from when the girls left the house and when Peter says he discovered the bodies is only about 30 or 45 minutes. How long does it take blood to coagulate after being shot?

Now if no one was home, it's a whole different scenario. No one would know for sure when the girls left.

[ArizonaGiGi]

But a trap catches more when it is baited with something sweet rather than something sour and distasteful. Constantly harping about what people are posting is sour and distasteful. It drives people away from the case and the forum.

The fact the Plackers may not have been home that afternoon is a good example. As far as I know that is just a rumor but it is a biggie. It is hard to discuss it to get it beyond the rumor stage if the people who brought it to the forum are chased and beaten.

:clap:

KEYBOARDPLAYER; I haven't heard of those BFF skyla/taylor bracelets. I would like to have one too.
I just called the school district - too late. Closed for the day. Will try tomorrow.

[Trino]

There are two parts to a bullet, the casing and the cartridge. The casing doesn't pass through the barrel. Prints can be lifted off the casings.
http://i36.tinypic.com/rrnz11.jpg

If the casings have prints, why hasn't OSBI been able to identify the killer(s)? It's difficult to believe they wouldn't already have a criminal background and already be printed.

[Tom'sGirl]

Hi all, longtime reader, "every-now-and-then" contributor... Does anyone know if it is possible to get one of those "In Memory -- BFF" wrist bands for Taylor and Skyla? I know they were giving them out at their school, but I didn't know if I could get one... I want to wear it until they find the !@#$$@!%^%$! who did this to them. Thanks!
Maybe if you called them you could find out if they had extras after giving them out to the students, or you could email them.
http://www.graham.k12.ok.us/

[Tom'sGirl]

If the casings have prints, why hasn't OSBI been able to identify the killer(s)? It's difficult to believe they wouldn't already have a criminal background and already be printed.
TMK, no info. has been released on what they have in the way of evidence, or DNA or to what forencic lab it would been sent to???

[Albert18]

However I have heard of a new technique that the British are using and usually they are the first to devise such new testing like they were the first ones to use DNA testing.


I have read about this new technology and I assume it is legit. It basically says if you touch a bullet casing with your bare fingers they can get your fingerprint even if you wipe the bullets clean. Since they have more than a couple casings they should be able to get a print off one of them.

I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[Albert18]

Now if no one was home, it's a whole different scenario. No one would know for sure when the girls left.

I don't see how it would hurt the investigation to tell people who talked to the girls last, who in the family saw them alive last and at what time, who was home that afternoon, and if the Plackers weren't home then where were they and what time did they leave.

I assume if somebody knows something and they haven't called LE it is because they are scared, don't trust LE, or don't care. I assume it is probably a combination of the first two. It is very hard to encourage someone to come forward if LE has no dialog with the public.

[Tom'sGirl]

I have read about this new technology and I assume it is legit. It basically says if you touch a bullet casing with your bare fingers they can get your fingerprint even if you wipe the bullets clean. Since they have more than a couple casings they should be able to get a print off one of them.

I wouldn't hold my breath though.
I'm not holding my breath either.

In view of the fact that the crime scene wasn't photographed, tire tracks cast (if they were) and other evidence obtained until it was dark leaves me with doubts as to what may have been missed.

Mix that with rain that followed, road grading, bringing in a dog days later after the road had been traveled & trampled leaves me with further doubts as to viable evidence.

[Tom'sGirl]

I don't see how it would hurt the investigation to tell people who talked to the girls last, who in the family saw them alive last and at what time, who was home that afternoon, and if the Plackers weren't home then where were they and what time did they leave.


That's the part that's confusing, what's the big secret? It's not unheard of for someone to leave for awhile to go into town or pick someone up and leave girls that age home.

I'm wondering if the Land & Cell phone record logs will ever be released as they have been in other cases?

I also wonder why there was no TOD listed on the Autopsy Report??, not even an estimated TOD, only the time the bodies were found.

[Ann Fan]

From what I have read in the past it is difficult to get fingerprints off of casings due to the very slick, smooth surface. However I have heard of a new technique that the British are using and usually they are the first to devise such new testing like they were the first ones to use DNA testing.

This links talks about it some.

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/E88FD217-1618-4765-912F-DB20445FB39B/

Thank you oceanblueeyes!:clap:

[oceanblueeyes]

That's the part that's confusing, what's the big secret? It's not unheard of for someone to leave for awhile to go into town or pick someone up and leave girls that age home.

I'm wondering if the Land & Cell phone record logs will ever be released as they have been in other cases?

I also wonder why there was no TOD listed on the Autopsy Report??, not even an estimated TOD, only the time the bodies were found.

I have seen other autopsy reports that left that section blank even though the ME had strong circumstantial evidence to show an estimated TOD so I don't find that significant that it isn't on there. It will most likely be on the Death Certificates though.

If there is a trial then I am sure the DA will introduce cell phone and land line records into the case.

I am not sure it is a secret. LE may think it has no relevance in this case and would not change the overall events as they unfolded. They have Rose's phone records where she called the Plackers and it would be easy to ascertain where the Plackers were at the time but then I think the Plackers have told LE exactly where they were before, during and when the bodies were discovered.

LE never tells all of their evidence so I don't expect them to give a detailed account until the perpetrators are caught and this goes to trial.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you oceanblueeyes!:clap:

You are very welcome.

[Tom'sGirl]

I have seen other autopsy reports that left that section blank even though the ME had strong circumstantial evidence to show an estimated TOD so I don't find that significant that it isn't on there. It will most likely be on the Death Certificates though.

If there is a trial then I am sure the DA will introduce cell phone and land line records into the case.

I am not sure it is a secret. LE may think it has no relevance in this case and would not change the overall events as they unfolded. They have Rose's phone records where she called the Plackers and it would be easy to ascertain where the Plackers were at the time but then I think the Plackers have told LE exactly where they were before, during and when the bodies were discovered.

LE never tells all of their evidence so I don't expect them to give a detailed account until the perpetrators are caught and this goes to trial.

imoo


I guess I was expecting the see some of the same type documents we saw in the Laurean/Lauterbach case.

[Just Nose'n around]

In regards to the bracelets, I think they were mentioned on kjrh channel 2 out of Tulsa when they aired an update when Graham was fixing to go back to school. As far as trying to find one today, well tomorrow now that it's late. They have been selling them at Jiffy Mart, a gas station in Henryetta. They also kept some for the students. Ms Mankin has said that not enough were ordered, since it wasn't anticipated that so many would want to purchase them. She has since ordered more but they may not be in for a week or so. When they do come in they will be available at Jiffy Mart again, a location in Dustin and another in Weleetka. I believe the Henryetta news paper is also going to try carrying some, if there are enough available.

[Just Nose'n around]

Just, do you know if these two are related?

Dillon Kelough 17

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=324820573


Dillon Harris (mother was a Kelough) 25

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=512524&offender_book_id=302018



Sorry it has taken me some time to respond. Honestly, I don't know if they are related or not. Given the information that the Harris boy was connected to the Keloughs through his mom, then my guess would be yes. As far as I know, there aren't many Keloughs outside of this area of the state and all the ones I know are related. So, I'm thinking, yes, they probably are kin.

[Just Nose'n around]

C2 thanks for the photos.
Is that the little cafe that Uncle Joe was supposedly yapping at the night of the murders? :confused:

The restraunt he was talking about after the murders was just off the highway at Henryetta, the one called Pig Out Palace or Huckleberrys. The area c2 was in is known as Pharoah (sp?)

[Tom'sGirl]

[quote=Just Nose'n around;2500038]The restraunt he was talking about after the murders was just off the highway at Henryetta, the one called Pig Out Palace or Huckleberrys.

http://i38.tinypic.com/ht7f2r.jpg
Huckleberry's Pig Out Palace
10029 Highway 62, Henryetta, OK 74437

[YellowDog]

I don't see how it would hurt the investigation to tell people who talked to the girls last, who in the family saw them alive last and at what time, who was home that afternoon, and if the Plackers weren't home then where were they and what time did they leave.

I assume if somebody knows something and they haven't called LE it is because they are scared, don't trust LE, or don't care. I assume it is probably a combination of the first two. It is very hard to encourage someone to come forward if LE has no dialog with the public.

Yes, they are keeping things secret that might bring people forward if, for instance, the Plackers said they were home and someone saw them elsewhere at the same time.

[Just Nose'n around]

Yep, that's the place...

[Tom'sGirl]

Sorry it has taken me some time to respond. Honestly, I don't know if they are related or not. Given the information that the Harris boy was connected to the Keloughs through his mom, then my guess would be yes. As far as I know, there aren't many Keloughs outside of this area of the state and all the ones I know are related. So, I'm thinking, yes, they probably are kin.
There is a Crystal G. & Kristopher Kelough out here near me..........hmm!

[Fairy1]

Yes, they are keeping things secret that might bring people forward if, for instance, the Plackers said they were home and someone saw them elsewhere at the same time.

I believe LE knows the answer to this question. And I (want to!!!) believe that whatever information LE is holding back - is for a reason. I wouldn't say I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not without hope....

[Trino]

My optimism is fading. There have been so many cases where the thought was that LE was keeping things close, yet the cases are plainly not solved.

I think if OSBI had anything, there would have been an arrest by now. They aren't going to let a child killer walk the streets.

[Mysterylover]

[QUOTE]

http://i38.tinypic.com/ht7f2r.jpg
Huckleberry's Pig Out Palace

10029 Highway 62, Henryetta, OK 74437

ClayCat.....You not gonna believe this.

The picture of Huckleberrys Pig Out Palace, triggered my memory of what 'goose berry bushes' have always been called in my area, Huckleberry Bushes....my Mother made many huckleberry pies, us kids picked from gooseberry bushes....imo

[Fairy1]

My optimism is fading. There have been so many cases where the thought was that LE was keeping things close, yet the cases are plainly not solved.

I think if OSBI had anything, there would have been an arrest by now. They aren't going to let a child killer walk the streets.

Understandable. I just can't let myself feel that way or - I will NEVER sleep again!!! Considering everything that has been uncovered on this board relating to the families, I do feel that LE has quite a few stones to "unturn." May take a little time, but I do believe, in my heart, they will figure it out. I keep coming back to the phrase, "there is no honor among thieves." Someone will turn...

[oceanblueeyes]

I guess I was expecting the see some of the same type documents we saw in the Laurean/Lauterbach case.

But weren't those things revealed after they had nabbed Laurean about three months after the crime happened?

If there is an arrest then I think we may learn more but until then we may not.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe LE knows the answer to this question. And I (want to!!!) believe that whatever information LE is holding back - is for a reason. I wouldn't say I'm optimistic, but I'm certainly not without hope....

I feel assured that OSBI has all of the information and much more.

Just because we don't know all the particulars doesn't mean they don't.

They may not want to release the TOD so that the killers will know they know. That way when they interrogate them they cant doctor a made up alibi beforehand.

imoo

[c2cd208]

Do I need to stop in the Pig Out Palace and see whats up there? Just let me know. I have stopped there many times and dont mind doing so when I am there again.

[Fairy1]

Do I need to stop in the Pig Out Palace and see whats up there? Just let me know. I have stopped there many times and dont mind doing so when I am there again.

If you're hungry round that time.....why not?!?!?!?

[ArizonaGiGi]

Maybe if you called them you could find out if they had extras after giving them out to the students, or you could email them.
http://www.graham.k12.ok.us/

Ya I'll see if they will accept a "donation" for some. Will let you guys know in case many of you want one or two.

aaahhh Just nose 'n, I just saw your post. I will try to track some down or at least find out when more will be available. Thanks for the info.

[Fairy1]

I feel assured that OSBI has all of the information and much more.

Just because we don't know all the particulars doesn't mean they don't.

They may not want to release the TOD so that the killers will know they know. That way when they interrogate them they cant doctor a made up alibi beforehand.

imoo

I so, so, so hope we're right OBE!!! I could not bear to see this case go unsolved. :mad:

[ArizonaGiGi]

Do I need to stop in the Pig Out Palace and see whats up there? Just let me know. I have stopped there many times and dont mind doing so when I am there again.


If you go, I would like to know if Uncle Joe was there the night of the murders yapping about it. And if he WAS,
* what did he say ?
* how did he act ?
* how long did he stay?
* was he alone ?

Thanks gal !!!
ps enjoy the food :)

I miss Southern cooking ........

[c2cd208]

If you go, I would like to know if Uncle Joe was there the night of the murders yapping about it. And if he WAS,
* what did he say ?
* how did he act ?
* how long did he stay?
* was he alone ?

Thanks gal !!!
ps enjoy the food :)

I miss Southern cooking ........
Will do dear. I can not remember if that place is open 24 or not. Its been a little while. Were loading now and it will be VERY late when were there tomarrow night. Anyone know if they are open 24? We got messed up on our trip back and were sitting at Coores in Colorado still. Dont know when we will get out of here. Were loaded, but we were over gross and had to come back to get the weight right and they still have not touched the trailer again.

PS: I love real southern cooking too. In fact I just love food! LOL I cook at home and we bring it with us and warm things up. I also have decent freezer space so we can freeze a lot of things and bring too. I am not huge on eating out. We mostly eat our own food but we do sit down a couple of times a week to eat, and always say the stuff in the truck is better.

[Fairy1]

Will do dear. I can not remember if that place is open 24 or not. Its been a little while. Were loading now and it will be VERY late when were there tomarrow night. Anyone know if they are open 24? We got messed up on our trip back and were sitting at Coores in Colorado still. Dont know when we will get out of here. Were loaded, but we were over gross and had to come back to get the weight right and they still have not touched the trailer again.

PS: I love real southern cooking too. In fact I just love food! LOL I cook at home and we bring it with us and warm things up. I also have decent freezer space so we can freeze a lot of things and bring too. I am not huge on eating out. We mostly eat our own food but we do sit down a couple of times a week to eat, and always say the stuff in the truck is better.

Travel safely c2cd!!! Whatever you can discover will be awesome for us here!

[FlowerChild]

I'm not holding my breath either.

In view of the fact that the crime scene wasn't photographed, tire tracks cast (if they were) and other evidence obtained until it was dark leaves me with doubts as to what may have been missed.

Mix that with rain that followed, road grading, bringing in a dog days later after the road had been traveled & trampled leaves me with further doubts as to viable evidence.

When the girls were found there was still 3 hours of daylight to work - rain did not come till about 3 AM - 10 hours after the bodies were found. CSI knew they were fighting a weather limit before they arrived and they came prepared to work fast and non-stop. The scene was photographed, video'd and the footprints and tire tracks were placed into evidence very early. OSBI had this information on display at the Okfuskee offices the next morning. There are NEWS videos of the scene as well, including one showing the evidence markers and the bullets at a distance. They brought in banks of portable lights, and other technology the 1st day - within an hour of the discovery. They did have dogs at the scene at various times for the 1st 3 days - the only dog that came later was the special "gunpowder" dog who came to sweep the areas in question to make sure they had not missed any stray bullets or casings...they had not. The entire area was swept multiple times with metal detectors and other technology was used to detect evidence. The OSBI also did GPS mapping of the entire area and the evidence locations the morning after the crimes - from the ground and the air. In the media thread much of this is documented multiple times. Much of the raw video done by the OSBI is public - you can look at it.

Of course photos and video of the crime scene with the bodies is not going to be released to the public until a trial (if then) - that is customary. I don't believe it's important that we see that - we already know most of the information from the autopsies - that's all I need on the bodies.

OSBI is working this case daily - as is Okfuskee County LE - and OHP. This is not "cold" and we do not even have DNA results at this point. Sadly real-life isn't like CSI with instant results - and I believe the OSBI is doing ALL the forensic and testing work - they are very highly regarded in that respect. We are just 60 days out and that is pretty much the MINIMUM time for DNA and other forensics results - I expect this to run closer to 90 days, they have numerous people to eliminate (and their tests also take time).

I am not giving up and I am certain that OSBi and Okfuskee County are still working this case very hard. they WANT TO SOLVE THIS worse than we want them to, this means something to ALL of them.

My Opinion

[FlowerChild]

Will do dear. I can not remember if that place is open 24 or not. Its been a little while. Were loading now and it will be VERY late when were there tomarrow night. Anyone know if they are open 24? We got messed up on our trip back and were sitting at Coores in Colorado still. Dont know when we will get out of here. Were loaded, but we were over gross and had to come back to get the weight right and they still have not touched the trailer again.

PS: I love real southern cooking too. In fact I just love food! LOL I cook at home and we bring it with us and warm things up. I also have decent freezer space so we can freeze a lot of things and bring too. I am not huge on eating out. We mostly eat our own food but we do sit down a couple of times a week to eat, and always say the stuff in the truck is better.
The Pig-Out is 24 hours - the only one in Henryetta - that is why Joe Mosher was there at 4 AM on the morning AFTER the murders - he went there after leaving the crime scene at 3 AM when the OSBI was finished with most of their work. Not only my contact but several OTHER people heard about him holding court at the Pig Out after the murders and I betcha the late night staff all can tell you he was there - they would have been at work at that hour.

That Joe Mosher was there is corroborated by several people, not just one (or even 2) random people - it was all over Henryetta at the time - I guess he spilled lots of details and garnered lots of sympathy at the time.

Check it out - bet you'll get an earful if you talk to the right people there...

My Opinion

[Fairy1]

When the girls were found there was still 3 hours of daylight to work - rain did not come till about 3 AM - 10 hours after the bodies were found. CSI knew they were fighting a weather limit before they arrived and they came prepared to work fast and non-stop. The scene was photographed, video'd and the footprints and tire tracks were placed into evidence very early. OSBI had this information on display at the Okfuskee offices the next morning. There are NEWS videos of the scene as well, including one showing the evidence markers and the bullets at a distance. They brought in banks of portable lights, and other technology the 1st day - within an hour of the discovery. They did have dogs at the scene at various times for the 1st 3 days - the only dog that came later was the special "gunpowder" dog who came to sweep the areas in question to make sure they had not missed any stray bullets or casings...they had not. The entire area was swept multiple times with metal detectors and other technology was used to detect evidence. The OSBI also did GPS mapping of the entire area and the evidence locations the morning after the crimes - from the ground and the air. In the media thread much of this is documented multiple times. Much of the raw video done by the OSBI is public - you can look at it.

Of course photos and video of the crime scene with the bodies is not going to be released to the public until a trial (if then) - that is customary. I don't believe it's important that we see that - we already know most of the information from the autopsies - that's all I need on the bodies.

OSBI is working this case daily - as is Okfuskee County LE - and OHP. This is not "cold" and we do not even have DNA results at this point. Sadly real-life isn't like CSI with instant results - and I believe the OSBI is doing ALL the forensic and testing work - they are very highly regarded in that respect. We are just 60 days out and that is pretty much the MINIMUM time for DNA and other forensics results - I expect this to run closer to 90 days, they have numerous people to eliminate (and their tests also take time).

I am not giving up and I am certain that OSBi and Okfuskee County are still working this case very hard. they WANT TO SOLVE THIS worse than we want them to, this means something to ALL of them.

My Opinion

Oh! I so hope you're right FC! I have faith as well and will attempt to be patient - for a little while longer.

[c2cd208]

The Pig-Out is 24 hours - the only one in Henryetta - that is why Joe Mosher was there at 4 AM on the morning AFTER the murders - he went there after leaving the crime scene at 3 AM when the OSBI was finished with most of their work. Not only my contact but several OTHER people heard about him holding court at the Pig Out after the murders and I betcha the late night staff all can tell you he was there - they would have been at work at that hour.

That Joe Mosher was there is corroborated by several people, not just one (or even 2) random people - it was all over Henryetta at the time - I guess he spilled lots of details and garnered lots of sympathy at the time.

Check it out - bet you'll get an earful if you talk to the right people there...

My Opinion
Good deal on the 24/7 I know a lot of the places we stop at are starting to close at night so good to know that one is still open. Looks like that may be just the place to stop and rest tomarrow night and go in for some late night coffee to check it out. Wait staff love to talk in the EARLY morning hours to help stay awake! Thanks for the information, that gives me something to go on from here.

Lets see what I can gleam from the Pig! I know when we went into Kelloggs, what was it last week or the week before I cant remember my days are running together, there wasnt so much as a peep. Then yesterday at Cow Poke's and Bernhard there was little talk, so maybe going a little more East to Pig will get us a little closer to someone who know's, thinks, or can give the local dish.

[ArizonaGiGi]

The Pig-Out is 24 hours - the only one in Henryetta - that is why Joe Mosher was there at 4 AM on the morning AFTER the murders - he went there after leaving the crime scene at 3 AM when the OSBI was finished with most of their work. Not only my contact but several OTHER people heard about him holding court at the Pig Out after the murders and I betcha the late night staff all can tell you he was there - they would have been at work at that hour.

That Joe Mosher was there is corroborated by several people, not just one (or even 2) random people - it was all over Henryetta at the time - I guess he spilled lots of details and garnered lots of sympathy at the time.

Check it out - bet you'll get an earful if you talk to the right people there...

My Opinion

Aw yes, servers love to talk about the goings on. :)

[frogjustfrog]

Good deal on the 24/7 I know a lot of the places we stop at are starting to close at night so good to know that one is still open. Looks like that may be just the place to stop and rest tomarrow night and go in for some late night coffee to check it out. Wait staff love to talk in the EARLY morning hours to help stay awake! Thanks for the information, that gives me something to go on from here.

Lets see what I can gleam from the Pig! I know when we went into Kelloggs, what was it last week or the week before I cant remember my days are running together, there wasnt so much as a peep. Then yesterday at Cow Poke's and Bernhard there was little talk, so maybe going a little more East to Pig will get us a little closer to someone who know's, thinks, or can give the local dish.

Barry who owns that place is a good friend of mine. Tell him I said Hi, but I dont think he knows me as frog. Nice people there. He is great!

[Albert18]

I am not giving up and I am certain that OSBi and Okfuskee County are still working this case very hard. they WANT TO SOLVE THIS worse than we want them to, this means something to ALL of them.

My Opinion

If they have DNA and or fingerprints this case should never really go cold. If they don't, I think this case is already cold. Without DNA or prints, the only way they are going to solve this is if someone calls them.

I can't shake the impression this investigation is moving like an elephant wearing cement shoes. Little information is given out and when they do talk to the public, have you noticed what they say? They tell us how hard they are working. That isn't a good sign.

It sure looks to me like younger people did this. If they were younger they probably knew Taylor. And they had to be capable of doing something like this. And they had to have some free time that Sunday afternoon. The number of people that would qualify can't be very large.

So if it was younger people like this then something is seriously wrong.

[Dr. Pennypacker]

If they have DNA and or fingerprints this case should never really go cold. If they don't, I think this case is already cold. Without DNA or prints, the only way they are going to solve this is if someone calls them.

I can't shake the impression this investigation is moving like an elephant wearing cement shoes. Little information is given out and when they do talk to the public, have you noticed what they say? They tell us how hard they are working. That isn't a good sign.

It sure looks to me like younger people did this. If they were younger they probably knew Taylor. And they had to be capable of doing something like this. And they had to have some free time that Sunday afternoon. The number of people that would qualify can't be very large.

So if it was younger people like this then something is seriously wrong.

I feel somethng should have developed by now. This case is cooling off to the point of going cold.

[Annie]

I think it may be young people and the parents may suspect, but are keeping their mouths shut to protect their child. Remember how Caylee Anthony's grandmother said in the first call that the car smelled like a dead body. Now she is doing everything she can to protect her daughter. These parents would have had two months to think about this. I think they are more likely to move than to turn their child in, if indeed it was a young person who did this. If it is the child from an influential family, there may be a lot of people covering it up.

[KeyboardPlayer]

Regarding the bracelets, I e-mailed the school and within an hour I received a reply. They have ordered more, and are selling them to the general public for $1.00 each plus $0.50 shipping if they have to mail it. The proceeds will be used to buy new cheerleading uniforms (the girls didn't want to wear the same ones as last year because of what happened). Just send the money to Wanda Mankin, Graham School, Rt. 1 Box 91B1, Weleetka, OK 74880. Cheers!

[YellowDog]

If this was kids, it would seem to me that they would have a history of meaness or violence and probably have been in trouble before. In most cases, you don't just become a cold hearted killer overnight. I wonder if there are any kids around there that have been known to kill dogs or cats for sport.

[Just Nose'n around]

Ms Mankin has mentioned trying to have a normal school year for the kids. I am certain they are dealing with a number of phone calls, e-mails and strange visitors. I would like to offer that if there are any here that would like a bracelet, I will have immediate access to them, once the new shipment comes in. I would not mind sending them out to you.

I'm not trying to get personal information and be all weird like that, but if you want to PM me, I can help! I know it would help out the staff at the school.

[YellowDog]

Keyboard just posted a name and address for people to order them directly from the school, Just Nos'n

[Just Nose'n around]

Keyboard just posted a name and address for people to order them directly from the school, Just Nos'n

Yea, I guess that's better. I just thought I could help take some of the man hours off of the faculty. But if any are in the area, as I had said before, Jiffy Mart and soon Henryetta Free-Lance will have them and a store in Dustin and Weleetka will possibly have some.

[YellowDog]

I'm sure a lot of people will want them.

[Albert18]

If this was kids, it would seem to me that they would have a history of meaness or violence and probably have been in trouble before. In most cases, you don't just become a cold hearted killer overnight. I wonder if there are any kids around there that have been known to kill dogs or cats for sport.

I agree with this. If it was young people then they certainly don't need to sort through 500 or even 100 people to find them.

I have always wondered if the girls hadn't gone for a walk that day would they still be alive? Did someone want one of them dead and so would have killed her/them somewhere else or did this stem from something that happened that day?

If Peter and Vickey weren't home and if it was young locals who did this, it makes me wonder if they knew Peter and Vickey weren't home since it happened so close to the house. If they knew they weren't home, how did they know? Had they talked to the girls earlier or had they seen Peter and Vickey somewhere?

[FlowerChild]

If they have DNA and or fingerprints this case should never really go cold. If they don't, I think this case is already cold. Without DNA or prints, the only way they are going to solve this is if someone calls them.

I can't shake the impression this investigation is moving like an elephant wearing cement shoes. Little information is given out and when they do talk to the public, have you noticed what they say? They tell us how hard they are working. That isn't a good sign.

It sure looks to me like younger people did this. If they were younger they probably knew Taylor. And they had to be capable of doing something like this. And they had to have some free time that Sunday afternoon. The number of people that would qualify can't be very large.

So if it was younger people like this then something is seriously wrong.
They don't even have DNA (and other test) results yet - exactly how should they solve this without all the information to identify and convict the killer? I guess maybe they could start arresting people "just in case" and sort out the guilty ones at some future date? Oh and in the meantime, release ALL of the information to the public even if it compromises the case - because a few people online NEED that information so they have something to discuss on their sleuthing forum.

It took 2 YEARS to catch Coralrose's killer (by DNA) and it was a "Local Stranger" who left her sexually assaulted body lying on a construction site near her home.
(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50282)
Sometimes cases don't get solved in the 1st week, the 1st month or even the 1st year, and yet they still manage to keep the case alive and find these killers. 2 months is NOT a long time after a murder like this one - like I said, I would expect it will be another month before LE even has a full set of evidence (and analysis) to work with. It takes time. I am not so sure LE doesn't already have a pretty good idea of WHO and may be waiting on DNA or other evidence in process to make the case solid.

Regardless, this is NOT even CLOSE to a cold case - most cases go at least a year before they are defined as "cold" and while we are all anxious and want an arrest yesterday, the reality is that this was NOT a simple case and even tho it SEEMS like an eternity - it has just now been 2 months since it happened. Even RUSH DNA takes 8 weeks or more under the best circumstances - in THIS case it may have taken a long time to find and then extract any usable DNA. And again, while we (the public) would also like LE to tell us every single detail of every crime, they have their reasons for not putting all the info out into the public - since they are the experts (and OSBI is VERY well regarded, BTW) we must be content knowing that they are working on this case - in fact a whole "squad" is working on this case all day every day - supplemented by local LE and OHP. Just because we are upset about not being "in the loop" is no reason to badmouth the very people who are working for justice for Taylor and Skyla and who are far from giving up or filing the case away in a drawer.

We want instant results and wouldn't it be awesome if every case could be solved within hours or days? The reality is that real cases often take real time and thousands of hours of investigation and evidence gathering, testing and analysis before they are solved. As in Coralrose's case, sometimes the answers just take a while to make themselves known. People are still trying to solve JonBenet's murder and she would have turned 18 this month - - -

My Opinion

[Tom'sGirl]

snipped from lengthly post
Oh and in the meantime, release ALL of the information to the public even if it compromises the case - because a few people online NEED that information so they have something to discuss on their sleuthing forum.
To me, that was an unfair assumption, and not the reason for wanting more information.

Many here posting live in the area, and knowing that a killer/killers are still on the loose causes much concern.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Regarding the bracelets, I e-mailed the school and within an hour I received a reply. They have ordered more, and are selling them to the general public for $1.00 each plus $0.50 shipping if they have to mail it. The proceeds will be used to buy new cheerleading uniforms (the girls didn't want to wear the same ones as last year because of what happened). Just send the money to Wanda Mankin, Graham School, Rt. 1 Box 91B1, Weleetka, OK 74880. Cheers!


:clap:Thanks ! ! !

[SeriouslySearching]

A case is deemed "cold" when all leads have been exhausted. They can have all the DNA they want from as many tests as they could run, but unless they have someone to match it to then it really is like having nothing at all. They are now spinning their wheels because they did not initially find the one piece of evidence to put them on the right path in the beginning of the case. The wrong interpretation of evidence they have now only takes them into one brick wall after another. They need to go back to the beginning and find the right "link" even if they have to admit they have nothing (which will never happen in a million years with LE!).

Look at Brianna Dennison's case and all the evidence they have...but still nothing. Take a quick glance at so many cases where LE has professed to be "working until it is solved", but have whittled down the number of agents, officers, and time spent on it to almost nothing except someone answering the phone when some remote call comes in. I would like OSBI to address how many are still active on this case and how many have been reassigned to other cases now. This will give you a clue as to how diligently they are working on it.

[SeriouslySearching]

snipped from lengthly post

To me, that was an unfair assumption, and not the reason for wanting more information.

Many here posting live in the area, and knowing that a killer/killers are still on the loose causes much concern.I agree. If it is someone local...we know what they are capable of and this is more than troubling. Would they care if it was two or fifty-two next time? People have to send their children to school every morning in that community. What is LE doing to protect them? :furious:

The truth is...LE should be releasing a LOT of additional information in order to open up the dialogue/tips from not only the community, but around the country. Either you have a group of methodical, cold blooded, and evil teens going out shooting little girls or you have a stranger/strangers doing it. It doesn't matter if the perp's lawyer has "vested" information in the long run. The person/people responsible need to be found NOW. Not in six months, not in a year, and not in ten years!

[evelyn24]

They don't even have DNA (and other test) results yet - exactly how should they solve this without all the information to identify and convict the killer? I guess maybe they could start arresting people "just in case" and sort out the guilty ones at some future date? Oh and in the meantime, release ALL of the information to the public even if it compromises the case - because a few people online NEED that information so they have something to discuss on their sleuthing forum.

It took 2 YEARS to catch Coralrose's killer (by DNA) and it was a "Local Stranger" who left her sexually assaulted body lying on a construction site near her home.
(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50282)
Sometimes cases don't get solved in the 1st week, the 1st month or even the 1st year, and yet they still manage to keep the case alive and find these killers. 2 months is NOT a long time after a murder like this one - like I said, I would expect it will be another month before LE even has a full set of evidence (and analysis) to work with. It takes time. I am not so sure LE doesn't already have a pretty good idea of WHO and may be waiting on DNA or other evidence in process to make the case solid.

Regardless, this is NOT even CLOSE to a cold case - most cases go at least a year before they are defined as "cold" and while we are all anxious and want an arrest yesterday, the reality is that this was NOT a simple case and even tho it SEEMS like an eternity - it has just now been 2 months since it happened. Even RUSH DNA takes 8 weeks or more under the best circumstances - in THIS case it may have taken a long time to find and then extract any usable DNA. And again, while we (the public) would also like LE to tell us every single detail of every crime, they have their reasons for not putting all the info out into the public - since they are the experts (and OSBI is VERY well regarded, BTW) we must be content knowing that they are working on this case - in fact a whole "squad" is working on this case all day every day - supplemented by local LE and OHP. Just because we are upset about not being "in the loop" is no reason to badmouth the very people who are working for justice for Taylor and Skyla and who are far from giving up or filing the case away in a drawer.

We want instant results and wouldn't it be awesome if every case could be solved within hours or days? The reality is that real cases often take real time and thousands of hours of investigation and evidence gathering, testing and analysis before they are solved. As in Coralrose's case, sometimes the answers just take a while to make themselves known. People are still trying to solve JonBenet's murder and she would have turned 18 this month - - -

My Opinion



http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/cold-case


SNIP "A cold case is any criminal investigation by a law enforcement agency that has not been solved for (generally) at least one year and, as a result, has been closed from further regular investigations."

You're correct FC.

I don't think this case is cold yet, or close to being closed as a cold case.
I keep hoping for news, but I understand why LE is unable to give away too much info.

[SeriouslySearching]

LOL OK so go by the "manual". I am telling you...cold means no leads coming in to most departments. If you do not have any leads to follow up on...what do you have when you have hit a brick wall?! They may not put the file in the "cold case" stack...but that doesn't mean the case is going anywhere by ANY stretch.

[Albert18]

Recently on TV there was a show about a cold case in Michigan where a young woman had been murdered. I can't remember how many years had passed but the woman's dad had died not seeing justice done for his daughter. The woman's mother decided to try again so she wrote a letter to the Attorney General of Michigan asking for help.

The AG sent out a couple of investigators to look at the case. The investigators noticed that the best friend of a guy who was the main focus of the investigation had never been interviewed. They talked to the friend, he gave them the information they needed, a little leg work was involved, case solved.

So if mom hadn't written that letter, a murderer would have never faced justice.

I don't see an advocate for these girls. If Rosser doesn't have enough respect for the people of that area to explain why Grandpa sounded like Grandma on the 911 call, then why should he be trusted to do justice for these girls. This case is way too important for that kind of blind trust.

[annie mae]

With this post I hope I won't sound stupid or ignorant. Anyway, Albert18, I agree with you 110%. I would exhaust every avenue to be heard for Taylor & Skyla if one were my child, grandchild, but that is just me, and thank the Lord I have mine. But then again maybe the Plackers or ? think they can take care of this behind the scenes. MHO

[YellowDog]

I wonder what the ratio is on solved/unsolved cases. If we knew, we probably wouldn't sleep very well. There are a staggering number of unsolved cases in America. This board is full of them. People just disappear off the face of the earth to never be seen or heard from again. Cold, warm or luke-warm, an unsolved case is still an unsolved case.

[YellowDog]

I agree with this. If it was young people then they certainly don't need to sort through 500 or even 100 people to find them.

I have always wondered if the girls hadn't gone for a walk that day would they still be alive? Did someone want one of them dead and so would have killed her/them somewhere else or did this stem from something that happened that day?

If Peter and Vickey weren't home and if it was young locals who did this, it makes me wonder if they knew Peter and Vickey weren't home since it happened so close to the house. If they knew they weren't home, how did they know? Had they talked to the girls earlier or had they seen Peter and Vickey somewhere?

I believe it stemmed from something that happened that day and that the girls knew their killer/killers. If the Plackers weren't at home when the girls left, a lot more time could have elapsed than 30 to 45 minutes before the shootings. The purse makes me wonder if they went to meet someone for an exchange of something.

[oceanblueeyes]

I wonder what the ratio is on solved/unsolved cases. If we knew, we probably wouldn't sleep very well. There are a staggering number of unsolved cases in America. This board is full of them. People just disappear off the face of the earth to never be seen or heard from again. Cold, warm or luke-warm, an unsolved case is still an unsolved case.

IIRC, last I read it was in the 60-65 percent solved and 35-40 percent unsolved.

It will continue to climb imo due to the criminals getting smarter about forensic evidence.

imoo

[SeriouslySearching]

What is it with the purse?! At her age, it was one of the most important pieces I owned. I didn't carry much in it except a pen, paper, and probably the Wrigley's chewing gum wrapper chain necklace I was working on...but it went EVERYWHERE with me. I don't find it at all surprising she had it to walk to the bridge at all. It is NOT unusual. I used to think it made me "look older and more mature". Probably the same reason she carried it...not to mention as a place to keep her cell phone and those markers the girls were obviously fond of using.

[Lauren - CA]

I would like OSBI to address how many are still active on this case and how many have been reassigned to other cases now. This will give you a clue as to how diligently they are working on it.

This was posted on Monday, August 11th. The article states how many OSBI agents, criminal analysts and man hours are being put in to this case.

http://newsok.com/investigators-work-many-hours-in-weleetka-slaying-case/article/3281811

[Claycat]

What is it with the purse?! At her age, it was one of the most important pieces I owned. I didn't carry much in it except a pen, paper, and probably the Wrigley's chewing gum wrapper chain necklace I was working on...but it went EVERYWHERE with me. I don't find it at all surprising she had it to walk to the bridge at all. It is NOT unusual. I used to think it made me "look older and more mature". Probably the same reason she carried it...not to mention as a place to keep her cell phone and those markers the girls were obviously fond of using.

I remember those gum wrapper chains, SS! Lol!

I think you are right about Taylor's purse. It was said that every time she rescued a turtle from the road, she would write her name on the shell with a black marker. She had to be carrying a marker in something.

[CMorrison64]

Will do dear. I can not remember if that place is open 24 or not. Its been a little while. Were loading now and it will be VERY late when were there tomarrow night. Anyone know if they are open 24? We got messed up on our trip back and were sitting at Coores in Colorado still. Dont know when we will get out of here. Were loaded, but we were over gross and had to come back to get the weight right and they still have not touched the trailer again.

PS: I love real southern cooking too. In fact I just love food! LOL I cook at home and we bring it with us and warm things up. I also have decent freezer space so we can freeze a lot of things and bring too. I am not huge on eating out. We mostly eat our own food but we do sit down a couple of times a week to eat, and always say the stuff in the truck is better.

My husband works for the company you were at ... what a small world!!!

[Lauren - CA]

I have always wondered if the girls hadn't gone for a walk that day would they still be alive? Did someone want one of them dead and so would have killed her/them somewhere else or did this stem from something that happened that day?

I have always wondered that myself. If that had not gone for a walk would they still be alive today? Boggles the mind doesn't it? I mentioned these girls to a co-worker of mine today (she had never heard of this case, if you can believe that) (also, she used to work as a police dispatcher) and the first thing she said was that when the killers (yes plural) would be caught, they would be white males, between the ages of 17 and 21 who knew the girls ( I think Taylor) and held a grudge for some stupid reason, their fathers probably owned a weapon or two and they were spurned romantically by either the victim or another girl and were taking their hostilities out on the girls.

[SeriouslySearching]

This was posted on Monday, August 11th. The article states how many OSBI agents, criminal analysts and man hours are being put in to this case.

http://newsok.com/investigators-work-many-hours-in-weleetka-slaying-case/article/3281811Thanks, I had read that...but it doesn't mean they are still holding to that number working the case at the moment. Most of what she said was in past tense except she did say at that time...there were still ten to twelve instead of the more than a dozen they started out with. :rolleyes: Of course, they are going to make it sound good no matter what!

[SeriouslySearching]

I remember those gum wrapper chains, SS! Lol!

I think you are right about Taylor's purse. It was said that every time she rescued a turtle from the road, she would write her name on the shell with a black marker. She had to be carrying a marker in something.Good point!

[YellowDog]

IIRC, last I read it was in the 60-65 percent solved and 35-40 percent unsolved.

It will continue to climb imo due to the criminals getting smarter about forensic evidence.

imoo

I think you are right about that and they watch these TV shows and see how other people commit crimes.

[YellowDog]

What is it with the purse?! At her age, it was one of the most important pieces I owned. I didn't carry much in it except a pen, paper, and probably the Wrigley's chewing gum wrapper chain necklace I was working on...but it went EVERYWHERE with me. I don't find it at all surprising she had it to walk to the bridge at all. It is NOT unusual. I used to think it made me "look older and more mature". Probably the same reason she carried it...not to mention as a place to keep her cell phone and those markers the girls were obviously fond of using.

I had purses at her age, too, but if I was just going for a walk in the neighborhood, I wouldn't have carried it with me.

[SeriouslySearching]

Mine caught in my bike spokes and tumbled me more than once. Didn't keep me from taking it tho. In a small town...everywhere was "my neighborhood".

[ArizonaGiGi]

The purse may or may not be relevant.
It just seems to ME that if they were going on a casual walk (Skyla was wearing house slippers!) that Taylor wouldn't take her purse. I would think she would feel kinda dumb carrying a big ole purse down to the bridge if it was just a casual stroll. Of course maybe she carried her little chihuahua in it. Or something else besides markers.
Just sayin'

[Tom'sGirl]

The purse may or may not be relevant.
It just seems to ME that if they were going on a casual walk (Skyla was wearing house slippers!) that Taylor wouldn't take her purse. I would think she would feel kinda dumb carrying a big ole purse down to the bridge if it was just a casual stroll. Of course maybe she carried her little chihuahua in it. Or something else besides markers.
Just sayin'
I'm not sure Skyla was wearing "house" slippers, it just said 'slippers". That could mean soft soled ballerina slip-ons for all we know.

We don't know the contents of the purse, that would have been turned over with their clothes and other found at the scene. For all we know it could have had a towel in it!

[FlowerChild]

This info has been posted by other people but some of it I got it from my local source so read accordingly

Rose Whitaker spoke with Skyla on her cell phone (Skyla's cell phone) at about 4:30 and that time the girls were at the Placker house and everything was great. Rose had been OOT and had just returned and had stopped at the Farm just up the road from the Plackers where her Mother (Claudia Farrow) and Stepfather were working when she called and spoke with Skyla.

Sometime after that call Taylor got permission from GPa and GMa for her and Skyla to walk to the bridge.

5 PM (est) Joe Mosher passed the girls (and the POI) on County Line Road - the girls were walking toward home.

Rose Whitaker attempted to call Skyla on her phone again at about 5:05 PM to say she was coming to get her soon. She did not get an answer.

At 5:08-5:10PM Rose called GPa/GMa Placker on their cell phone to let them know she was coming to pick up Skyla shortly. She told the Plackers Skyla did not answer her phone and that she wanted Skyla ready to leave when she arrived because the Whitakers were having guests over and had planned to BBQ/grill dinner at their house Sun night. It is believed that at THIS TIME GPa/GMa Placker were NOT at home, but elsewhere in their vehicle.

GPa called Taylor on her cell phone and did not get an answer.

5:20-5:30 GMa and GPa Placker arrive home - probably with the small child heard on the 911 tape - GPa talks to Joe Mosher who says he just saw the girls walking home - after checking the house and property GPa Placker starts walking N on County Line Road to get the girls to come home.

5:35 - 5:41 PM The girls are found shot to death alongside the road 1/4 mile N of the Placker Driveway one the same side of the road as the driveway/Placker House and 911 is called

5:45 PM GPa Placker calls Rose Whitaker and tells her something has happened to the girls - she arrives with 5 minutes as she was less than a mile away. GPa Placker meets Rose at her car to stop her from seeing the bodies.

6PM 1st responders have arrived - stopping 1st at the Placker residence to the S of the crime scene. They take control of the scene and roadblock County Line Road from the road S of the crime scene and the Placker home, to Bryant Rd. The distance between the two roadblocks is aprox 2 miles. Rose's mom and stepdad Claudia and Jimmy Farrow arrive at the crime scene coming from N of the crime scene
6:15 PM OSBI has been notified and is dispatching personnel, equipment, helicopters etc to the scene.

On the scene now are Peter and Vicky Placker, Rose Whitaker, Joe Mosher and Claudia and Jimmie Farrow plus at least one unidentified child (who arrived with the Plaker G-Parents).

The crime scene was cleared by the time it began raining at aprox 4AM Monday morning - Joe Mosher left the scene and drove into Henryette, where he ate at the 24 hour Pig Out restaurant.

My Opinion

[KeyboardPlayer]

I've been thinking recently about the white truck with OK tags... Couldn't they filter out the Bureau of Motor Vehicles (or whatever it's called in OK) database for that? I would think the basic vehicle information (color, etc.) would be stored in there. Wouldn't that help narrow the search, at least? I know thousands upon thousands of records would probably be returned, but it's better than the probable millions of possibilities at this point. All of this is assuming, of course, that the truck and the (hopefully still current) POI are in any way involved; I realize we can't even know THAT for sure at this point. Also, I sent away for my bracelet today (gave them some extra $ for the cheerleading uniforms too), and I have already told myself I will wear it (at the very least) until they find out who did this. Cheers all!

[KeyboardPlayer]

P.S. Thank you, FlowerChild, for the timeline!

[ArizonaGiGi]

I'm not sure Skyla was wearing "house" slippers, it just said 'slippers". That could mean soft soled ballerina slip-ons for all we know.

We don't know the contents of the purse, that would have been turned over with their clothes and other found at the scene. For all we know it could have had a towel in it!

Or a bar of soap. ya mmm hm.

[frogjustfrog]

This info has been posted by other people but some of it I got it from my local source so read accordingly

Rose Whitaker spoke with Skyla on her cell phone (Skyla's cell phone) at about 4:30 and that time the girls were at the Placker house and everything was great. Rose had been OOT and had just returned and had stopped at the Farm just up the road from the Plackers where her Mother (Claudia Farrow) and Stepfather were working when she called and spoke with Skyla.

Sometime after that call Taylor got permission from GPa and GMa for her and Skyla to walk to the bridge.

5 PM (est) Joe Mosher passed the girls (and the POI) on County Line Road - the girls were walking toward home.

Rose Whitaker attempted to call Skyla on her phone again at about 5:05 PM to say she was coming to get her soon. She did not get an answer.

At 5:08-5:10PM Rose called GPa/GMa Placker on their cell phone to let them know she was coming to pick up Skyla shortly. She told the Plackers Skyla did not answer her phone and that she wanted Skyla ready to leave when she arrived because the Whitakers were having guests over and had planned to BBQ/grill dinner at their house Sun night. It is believed that at THIS TIME GPa/GMa Placker were NOT at home, but elsewhere in their vehicle.

GPa called Taylor on her cell phone and did not get an answer.

5:20-5:30 GMa and GPa Placker arrive home - probably with the small child heard on the 911 tape - GPa talks to Joe Mosher who says he just saw the girls walking home - after checking the house and property GPa Placker starts walking N on County Line Road to get the girls to come home.

5:35 - 5:41 PM The girls are found shot to death alongside the road 1/4 mile N of the Placker Driveway one the same side of the road as the driveway/Placker House and 911 is called

5:45 PM GPa Placker calls Rose Whitaker and tells her something has happened to the girls - she arrives with 5 minutes as she was less than a mile away. GPa Placker meets Rose at her car to stop her from seeing the bodies.

6PM 1st responders have arrived - stopping 1st at the Placker residence to the S of the crime scene. They take control of the scene and roadblock County Line Road from the road S of the crime scene and the Placker home, to Bryant Rd. The distance between the two roadblocks is aprox 2 miles. Rose's mom and stepdad Claudia and Jimmy Farrow arrive at the crime scene coming from N of the crime scene
6:15 PM OSBI has been notified and is dispatching personnel, equipment, helicopters etc to the scene.

On the scene now are Peter and Vicky Placker, Rose Whitaker, Joe Mosher and Claudia and Jimmie Farrow plus at least one unidentified child (who arrived with the Plaker G-Parents).

The crime scene was cleared by the time it began raining at aprox 4AM Monday morning - Joe Mosher left the scene and drove into Henryette, where he ate at the 24 hour Pig Out restaurant.

My Opinion

The above is bolded by me.
This would mean that Joe Mosher had to be the one who called in the POI! Once again I ask, "But why 4 days later!!!!!!!"
This timeline opens alot to me. 5 minutes between when he saw the girls AND THE POI and from when Rose called and they didnt answer!!!!
Something looks really fishy to me... and I really dont believe now that there was a poi!

Oh, and I am almost certain that is a one mile section from the County Line road that runs East and West, just south of the Plackers, which turns back east to Arbeka Cemetary, and to Bryant Road, otherwise known as East 1120 Road on Mapquest. That is just about a 1 mile section.

This is REALLY starting to look stinky to me!
How much can we trust this information that Joe Mosher saw the girls? I thought it was a big secret who called in the poi... unless uncle joe just forgot to mention it until someone called in 4 days later, and he said, "oh yea... I saw that too!" ya right.:waitasec:

Thanks so much for the timeline!

[Tom'sGirl]

Or a bar of soap. ya mmm hm.
I guess that was supposed to be funny???

[YellowDog]

Rose Whitaker spoke with Skyla on her cell phone (Skyla's cell phone) at about 4:30 and that time the girls were at the Placker house and everything was great. Rose had been OOT and had just returned and had stopped at the Farm just up the road from the Plackers where her Mother (Claudia Farrow) and Stepfather were working when she called and spoke with Skyla.

Do you think there's any possibility that Skyla just said they were at the Placker's house but they really had already left?

Sometime after that call Taylor got permission from GPa and GMa for her and Skyla to walk to the bridge.

If GMa and GPa weren't at home, could the girls have also pretended to be at the Placker house but were really already headed toward the bridge?

5 PM (est) Joe Mosher passed the girls (and the POI) on County Line Road - the girls were walking toward home.

Question: What was Joe Mosher doing in the area if the Plackers weren't home? Did he go there because he knew they weren't home? Why was he still in the area at 5:30 when the bodies were found?
If he saw the girls walking, why didn't he stop and talk to them? Since the murder scene was 1/2 mile from the Placker house, I would like to know whether this would be the normal direction for Joe Mosher to take to get to the house? Didn't the police come in from the other direction? This guy was all over the place that day. Makes me suspicious.

Rose Whitaker attempted to call Skyla on her phone again at about 5:05 PM to say she was coming to get her soon. She did not get an answer.

At 5:08-5:10PM Rose called GPa/GMa Placker on their cell phone to let them know she was coming to pick up Skyla shortly. She told the Plackers Skyla did not answer her phone and that she wanted Skyla ready to leave when she arrived because the Whitakers were having guests over and had planned to BBQ/grill dinner at their house Sun night. It is believed that at THIS TIME GPa/GMa Placker were NOT at home, but elsewhere in their vehicle.

Whether or not they were home when the girls left could answer a lot of my questions.

GPa called Taylor on her cell phone and did not get an answer.

Do they have a record of exactly what time this call was made?

5:20-5:30 GMa and GPa Placker arrive home - probably with the small child heard on the 911 tape - GPa talks to Joe Mosher who says he just saw the girls walking home - after checking the house and property GPa Placker starts walking N on County Line Road to get the girls to come home.

5:35 - 5:41 PM The girls are found shot to death alongside the road 1/4 mile N of the Placker Driveway one the same side of the road as the driveway/Placker House and 911 is called

5:45 PM GPa Placker calls Rose Whitaker and tells her something has happened to the girls - she arrives with 5 minutes as she was less than a mile away. GPa Placker meets Rose at her car to stop her from seeing the bodies.

6PM 1st responders have arrived - stopping 1st at the Placker residence to the S of the crime scene. They take control of the scene and roadblock County Line Road from the road S of the crime scene and the Placker home, to Bryant Rd. The distance between the two roadblocks is aprox 2 miles. Rose's mom and stepdad Claudia and Jimmy Farrow arrive at the crime scene coming from N of the crime scene
6:15 PM OSBI has been notified and is dispatching personnel, equipment, helicopters etc to the scene.

On the scene now are Peter and Vicky Placker, Rose Whitaker, Joe Mosher and Claudia and Jimmie Farrow plus at least one unidentified child (who arrived with the Plaker G-Parents).

The crime scene was cleared by the time it began raining at aprox 4AM Monday morning - Joe Mosher left the scene and drove into Henryette, where he ate at the 24 hour Pig Out restaurant.

My Opinion

These are just some things that have me thinking.

[Tom'sGirl]

The above is bolded by me.
This would mean that Joe Mosher had to be the one who called in the POI! Once again I ask, "But why 4 days later!!!!!!!"
This timeline opens alot to me. 5 minutes between when he saw the girls AND THE POI and from when Rose called and they didnt answer!!!!
Something looks really fishy to me... and I really dont believe now that there was a poi!

Oh, and I am almost certain that is a one mile section from the County Line road that runs East and West, just south of the Plackers, which turns back east to Arbeka Cemetary, and to Bryant Road, otherwise known as East 1120 Road on Mapquest. That is just about a 1 mile section.

This is REALLY starting to look stinky to me!
How much can we trust this information that Joe Mosher saw the girls? I thought it was a big secret who called in the poi... unless uncle joe just forgot to mention it until someone called in 4 days later, and he said, "oh yea... I saw that too!" ya right.:waitasec:

Thanks so much for the timeline!
And the big question is, IF in fact Joe Mosher had just passed the girls why didn't he hear the gun shots? It wasn't as if there were only a couple of rounds fired.

[cloudajo]

This info has been posted by other people but some of it I got it from my local source so read accordingly

Rose Whitaker spoke with Skyla on her cell phone (Skyla's cell phone) at about 4:30 and that time the girls were at the Placker house and everything was great. Rose had been OOT and had just returned and had stopped at the Farm just up the road from the Plackers where her Mother (Claudia Farrow) and Stepfather were working when she called and spoke with Skyla.

Sometime after that call Taylor got permission from GPa and GMa for her and Skyla to walk to the bridge.

5 PM (est) Joe Mosher passed the girls (and the POI) on County Line Road - the girls were walking toward home.

Rose Whitaker attempted to call Skyla on her phone again at about 5:05 PM to say she was coming to get her soon. She did not get an answer.

At 5:08-5:10PM Rose called GPa/GMa Placker on their cell phone to let them know she was coming to pick up Skyla shortly. She told the Plackers Skyla did not answer her phone and that she wanted Skyla ready to leave when she arrived because the Whitakers were having guests over and had planned to BBQ/grill dinner at their house Sun night. It is believed that at THIS TIME GPa/GMa Placker were NOT at home, but elsewhere in their vehicle.

GPa called Taylor on her cell phone and did not get an answer.

5:20-5:30 GMa and GPa Placker arrive home - probably with the small child heard on the 911 tape - GPa talks to Joe Mosher who says he just saw the girls walking home - after checking the house and property GPa Placker starts walking N on County Line Road to get the girls to come home.

5:35 - 5:41 PM The girls are found shot to death alongside the road 1/4 mile N of the Placker Driveway one the same side of the road as the driveway/Placker House and 911 is called

5:45 PM GPa Placker calls Rose Whitaker and tells her something has happened to the girls - she arrives with 5 minutes as she was less than a mile away. GPa Placker meets Rose at her car to stop her from seeing the bodies.

6PM 1st responders have arrived - stopping 1st at the Placker residence to the S of the crime scene. They take control of the scene and roadblock County Line Road from the road S of the crime scene and the Placker home, to Bryant Rd. The distance between the two roadblocks is aprox 2 miles. Rose's mom and stepdad Claudia and Jimmy Farrow arrive at the crime scene coming from N of the crime scene
6:15 PM OSBI has been notified and is dispatching personnel, equipment, helicopters etc to the scene.

On the scene now are Peter and Vicky Placker, Rose Whitaker, Joe Mosher and Claudia and Jimmie Farrow plus at least one unidentified child (who arrived with the Plaker G-Parents).

The crime scene was cleared by the time it began raining at aprox 4AM Monday morning - Joe Mosher left the scene and drove into Henryette, where he ate at the 24 hour Pig Out restaurant.

My Opinion

FC,
Thanks for the info. My questions/comments are:

·The autopsy report says Time Found: 17:21

·If this is true about Joe Mosher:

Several articles said Joe Mosher last saw Taylor two weeks before at the family reunion. So if he was there and saw them on June 8th, we know he obviously didn't tell the media.
Do you think he waited to tell LE he was there that day or do you think he told them right away and they waited to announce "a witness?"
“5 PM (est) Joe Mosher passed the girls (and the POI) on County Line Road - the girls were walking toward home.”
So if he was going to the Placker home, he passed them while driving south. Do you think Joe Mosher stopped and offered the girls a ride if he was going to the Plackers? I guess we don’t know if he even stopped and talked to them?
I wonder why he was going to the Placker’s house that day.
I wonder if his wife Nell with him when they passed the POI and girls?
Do you think Joe Mosher is the same witness who described the POI as doing something “suspicious” outside the parked truck? If so, any thoughts as to why he wouldn’t have stopped and gone back to make sure the girls were ok? I would think an uncle would be a bit worried.
Did your source say whether Joe Mosher also heard the shots?

[oceanblueeyes]

The above is bolded by me.
This would mean that Joe Mosher had to be the one who called in the POI! Once again I ask, "But why 4 days later!!!!!!!"
This timeline opens alot to me. 5 minutes between when he saw the girls AND THE POI and from when Rose called and they didnt answer!!!!
Something looks really fishy to me... and I really dont believe now that there was a poi!

Oh, and I am almost certain that is a one mile section from the County Line road that runs East and West, just south of the Plackers, which turns back east to Arbeka Cemetary, and to Bryant Road, otherwise known as East 1120 Road on Mapquest. That is just about a 1 mile section.

This is REALLY starting to look stinky to me!
How much can we trust this information that Joe Mosher saw the girls? I thought it was a big secret who called in the poi... unless uncle joe just forgot to mention it until someone called in 4 days later, and he said, "oh yea... I saw that too!" ya right.:waitasec:

Thanks so much for the timeline!

But Agent Brown said that several witnesses stated they saw the POI.:confused: He may be the only one who saw the girls and the POI. The other witnesses may have seen the POI only............ elsewhere in the area.

[frogjustfrog]

And the big question is, IF in fact Joe Mosher had just passed the girls why didn't he hear the gun shots? It wasn't as if there were only a couple of rounds fired.

VERY IMPORTANT OBSERVATION!!!

I would like the answer to that question!

[frogjustfrog]

But Agent Brown said that several witnesses stated they saw the POI.:confused: He may be the only one who saw the girls and the POI. The other witnesses may have seen the POI only............ elsewhere in the area.

Well, I understood that the other witnesses who spotted the POI saw him up on Bryant Road, not on County Line Road, and I dont know if I ever heard if this was reported, like OSBI said it, or if it was just rumor. I still think anytime anything is posted, we need to clarify each statermet with fact or rumor.

Wish I could find it, but I definately remember it.... in the beginning, it was said, that the person who called in the poi said that he saw him AND the girls and the girls were fine. He also said that he had a hard time getting around the POI's vehicle because of the way it was parked. It was almost blocking the road. SO........ in 5-8 minutes, more than one person, meaning uncle Joe AND someone else passed the girls and the POI when the POI was there near the girls? Hmmmmmmmmm