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STEADFAST
08-17-2008, 07:43 PM
Leonard Padilla was quoted as saying that he will NOT be turning over evidence to LE. So he must be working, on a voluntary basis, for Baez. So anything she tells him will be kept in the defense ballpark. That is my understanding.

Wouldn't he have to turn any information he has over to the prosecutor in discovery? Or is that just information he plans to use at trial?

ETA: Never mind. This was answered while I was writing and posting it. Thanks.

MommaD
08-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Look up on Windchime's dream sticky. I think the picture you're looking for is in one of those posts. (A guy covered with tattoos with his forearms around Casey's shoulders?) On some thread, and I really can't remember where, someone said they believe that picture is photoshopped.

ty will do .. never thought to look there just at all the pic threads..

MIMOMMY
08-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Stupid question maybe --- what size were all of those clothes that were found?

rozey
08-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Well then, let's say Cowboy did get the truth out of Casey. Let's say she admits she accidentally killed Caylee. Cowboy tells Baez? Doesn't Baez have to tell LE?

I don't know how disclosure of defense evidence works. I posed the question to Tony Padilla, he is supposed to be on this evening. But I would think that they don't have to say anything until trial. IMO

cuppy199
08-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Bud sends his regards!

http://users.psln.com/pete/bud.htm

Beauitful dog! Does bud have any interest in rescue :p

bluedevil21
08-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Leonard Padilla was quoted as saying that he will NOT be turning over evidence to LE. So he must be working, on a voluntary basis, for Baez. So anything she tells him will be kept in the defense ballpark. That is my understanding.

i have no idea why baez would allow this. but at the same time, he doesn't have a choice; it is the client's decision (that said, though, he helped facilitate this....). this whole case is over his head anyway - he is an immigration attorney, with criminal experience, for less than 3 years. i doubt he has any clue what he is really doing at this point. maybe he just wants to use this for reasonable doubt - but i really dont see this working in casey's favor with a jury of her peers...

AmyD
08-17-2008, 07:45 PM
ty will do .. never thought to look there just at all the pic threads..

I think that pic is also on the "We received some anonymous info" thread

rozey
08-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Wouldn't he have to turn any information he has over to the prosecutor in discovery? Or is that just information he plans to use at trial?

ETA: Never mind. This was answered while I was writing and posting it. Thanks.

Yes, but doesn't discovery happen at the beginning of a trial?

karenmamo
08-17-2008, 07:46 PM
i have no idea why baez would allow this. but at the same time, he doesn't have a choice; it is the client's decision (that said, though, he helped facilitate this....). this whole case is over his head anyway - he is an immigration attorney, with criminal experience, for less than 3 years. i doubt he has any clue what he is really doing at this point. maybe he just wants to use this for reasonable doubt - but i really dont see this working in casey's favor with a jury of her peers...

Blue, don't you think he has more experienced lawyers working with him?
k

OldSarge
08-17-2008, 07:48 PM
Beauitful dog! Does bud have any interest in rescue :p

Cuppy, Bud says thanks!

He made is first "capture" at age 9 months, at a Longs drug store parking lot. He was a natural Shutzhoond.

OldSarge
08-17-2008, 07:49 PM
i have no idea why baez would allow this. but at the same time, he doesn't have a choice; it is the client's decision (that said, though, he helped facilitate this....). this whole case is over his head anyway - he is an immigration attorney, with criminal experience, for less than 3 years. i doubt he has any clue what he is really doing at this point. maybe he just wants to use this for reasonable doubt - but i really dont see this working in casey's favor with a jury of her peers...

1000 percent correct!

AmyD
08-17-2008, 07:49 PM
Blue, don't you think he has more experienced lawyers working with him?
k

I did read two names of other lawyers who were "part of the defense team". Casey is going to bankrupt her family.

cuppy199
08-17-2008, 07:50 PM
Cuppy, Bud says thanks!

He made is first "capture" at age 9 months, at a Longs drug store parking lot. He was a natural Shutzhoond.

Well he looks like a natural :woohoo:He differntly has the looks:)

STEADFAST
08-17-2008, 07:51 PM
Yes, but doesn't discovery happen at the beginning of a trial?

I thought it happened sometime before the beginning, so that each side can deal with whatever they find out.

JBean
08-17-2008, 07:52 PM
i have no idea why baez would allow this. but at the same time, he doesn't have a choice; it is the client's decision (that said, though, he helped facilitate this....). this whole case is over his head anyway - he is an immigration attorney, with criminal experience, for less than 3 years. i doubt he has any clue what he is really doing at this point. maybe he just wants to use this for reasonable doubt - but i really dont see this working in casey's favor with a jury of her peers...

I don't know. I think most defense attorney's would want to get their client out on bail. Remember he argued to get her bail reduced so that she could go home. It is SOP.

rozey
08-17-2008, 07:52 PM
I thought it happened sometime before the beginning, so that each side can deal with whatever they find out.

I admit stupidity.

OldSarge
08-17-2008, 07:53 PM
I thought it happened sometime before the beginning, so that each side can deal with whatever they find out.

PRETRIAL discovery, is correct.

bluedevil21
08-17-2008, 07:54 PM
i am researching discovery rules in florida, give me 2 minutes....

rozey
08-17-2008, 07:54 PM
PRETRIAL discovery, is correct.

Thanks sarge...

AmyD
08-17-2008, 07:55 PM
I don't know. I think most defense attorney's would want to get their client out on bail. Remember he argued to get her bail reduced so that she could go home. It is SOP.

I'm sure that's true most of the time. But Cowboy is saying he's going to be with her 24/7 and get the truth out of her. I don't know why a defense attorney would want that.

panthera
08-17-2008, 07:57 PM
panthera, you are number 5,001 in line, please wait your turn.
Actually I meant Beth Chapman to be alone with her for 5 min.!! I'll gladly wait my turn after HER!!! :D

OldSarge
08-17-2008, 07:57 PM
God Bless you ALL....

Must feed my wife.

Keep the faith, and defend the truth.... Folks.

JBean
08-17-2008, 07:57 PM
I'm sure that's true most of the time. But Cowboy is saying he's going to be with her 24/7 and get the truth out of her. I don't know why a defense attorney would want that.
Maybe getting the truth out of her means convincing her to talk to her attorney and working out a plan to aid her defense and locate Caylee.

STEADFAST
08-17-2008, 07:59 PM
Hmm . . . well, I don't know about Florida, but there is this in federal courts:

Information Not Subject to Disclosure
Except for scientific or medical reports, Rule 16(b)(1) does not authorize discovery or inspection of: (1) reports, memoranda, or other documents made by the defendant, or the defendant's attorney or agent, during the case's investigation or defense; or (2) a statement made to the defendant, or the defendant's attorney or agent, by (a) the defendant; (b) a government or defense witness; or (c) a prospective government or defense witness.
More federal discovery rules: http://www.utahcriminaldefenselaw.com/archives/discovery-in-criminal-cases-the-defendants-discovery-obligations-in-federal-criminal-cases.html

The more I read this, the less I understand it -- but it seems to say "Rule 16" . . . "does not authorize discovery or inspection of". . . "a statement made to" . . . "the defendant's attorney or agent" . . . "by the defendant" . . ."or a prospective government or defense witness."

So maybe Casey could confess to Leonard, and he could just keep it to himself???? Surely he wouldn't, though.

MommaD
08-17-2008, 07:59 PM
I think that pic is also on the "We received some anonymous info" thread

ty AmyD it was all there plus more postings.. ty again..

bluedevil21
08-17-2008, 08:00 PM
here is what i found (sorry it is rather lengthy)....

In the February 18, 1999, the Florida Supreme Court, sua sponte (on it's own) amended rule 3.220(a), Notice of Discovery, to provide in pertinent part:

Participation by a defendant in the discovery process, including the taking of any deposition by a defendant or the filing of a public records request under chapter 119, Florida Statutes for nonexempt law enforcement records relating to the defendant's pending prosecution, shall be an election to participate in discovery and triggers a reciprocal discovery obligation for the defendant.

RULE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE 3.220. DISCOVERY
(as amended, effective 12:01 am, 10/196)
Note: see: 21 FLW S369.

(a) Notice of Discovery. After the filing of the charging document, a defendant may elect to participate in the discovery process provided by these rules, including the taking of discovery depositions, by filing with the court and serving on the prosecuting attorney a "Notice of Discovery" which shall bind both the prosecution and defendant to all discovery procedures contained in these rules. Participation by a defendant in the discovery process, including the taking of any deposition by a defendant, shall be an election to participate in discovery. If any defendant knowingly or purposely shares in discovery obtained by a codefendant, the defendant shall be deemed to have elected to participate in discovery.

***

(c) Disclosure to Prosecution.

(1) After the filing of the charging document and subject to constitutional limitations, the court may require a defendant to:

(A) appear in a lineup;

(B) speak for identification by witnesses to an offense;

(C) be fingerprinted;

(D) pose for photographs not involving reenactment of a scene;

(E) try on articles of clothing;

(F) permit the taking of specimens of material under the defendant's fingernails;

(G) permit the taking of samples of the defendant's blood, hair, and other materials of the defendant's body that involves no unreasonable intrusion thereof;

(H) provide specimens of the defendant's handwriting; and

(I) submit to a reasonable physical or medical inspection of the defendant's body.

(2) If the personal appearance of a defendant is required for the foregoing purposes, reasonable notice of the time and location of the appearance shall be given by the prosecuting attorney to the defendant and his or her counsel. Provisions may be made for appearances for such purposes in an order admitting a defendant to bail or providing for pretrial release.

(d) Defendant's Obligation.

(1) If a defendant elects to participate in discovery, either through filing the appropriate notice or by participating in any discovery process, including the taking of a discovery deposition, the following disclosures shall be made:

(A) Within 15 days after receipt by the defendant of the Discovery Exhibit furnished by the prosecutor pursuant to subdivision (b)(1)(A) of this rule, the defendant shall furnish to the prosecutor a written list of the names and addresses of all witnesses whom the defendant expects to call as witnesses at the trial or hearing. When the prosecutor subpoenas a witness whose name has been furnished by the defendant, except for trial subpoenas, the rules applicable to the taking of depositions shall apply.

(B) Within 15 days after receipt of the prosecutor's Discovery Exhibit the defendant shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to and permit the prosecutor to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material that is in the defendant's possession or control:

(i) the statement of any person listed in subdivision (d)(1)(A), other than that of the defendant;

(ii) reports or statements of experts made in connection with the particular case, including results of physical or mental examinations and of scientific tests, experiments, or comparisons; and

(iii) any tangible papers or objects that the defendant intends to use in the hearing or trial.

(2) The prosecutor and the defendant shall perform their obligations under this rule in a manner mutually agreeable or as ordered by the court.

(3) The filing of a motion for protective order by the prosecutor will automatically stay the times provided for in this subdivision. If a protective order is granted, the defendant may, within 2 days thereafter, or at any time before the prosecutor furnishes the information or material that is the subject of the motion for protective order, withdraw the defendant's notice of discovery and not be required to furnish reciprocal discovery.

(e) Restricting Disclosure. The court on its own initiative or on motion of counsel shall deny or partially restrict disclosures authorized by this rule if it finds there is a substantial risk to any person of physical harm, intimidation, bribery, economic reprisals, or unnecessary annoyance or embarrassment resulting from the disclosure, that outweighs any usefulness of the disclosure to either party.

(f) Additional Discovery. On a showing of materiality, the court may require such other discovery to the parties as justice may require.

(g) Matters Not Subject to Disclosure.

(1) Work Product. Disclosure shall not be required of legal research or of records, correspondence, reports, or memoranda to the extent that they contain the opinions, theories, or conclusions of the prosecuting or defense attorney or members of their legal staffs.

(2) Informants. Disclosure of a confidential informant shall not be required unless the confidential informant is to be produced at a hearing or trial or a failure to disclose the informant's identity will infringe the constitutional rights of the defendant.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/OGC/Legal_Bulletins/lb9602_9-24.html

AmyD
08-17-2008, 08:01 PM
Maybe getting the truth out of her means convincing her to talk to her attorney and working out a plan to aid her defense and locate Caylee.

I guess... I'm still convinced there is some hinky deal going on between Baez, Cowboy, and the "Journalist" in New York.

AmyD
08-17-2008, 08:04 PM
ty AmyD it was all there plus more postings.. ty again..

Your welcome Momma!:square:

bluedevil21
08-17-2008, 08:05 PM
I guess... I'm still convinced there is some hinky deal going on between Baez, Cowboy, and the "Journalist" in New York.

technically (and legally speaking), there cannot be any official deal for baez. as an attorney, you cannot accept future rights in any movie, book, etc for a case that you are currently working on - even your own book, movie, whatever. (this is not to say, of course, that he isn't doing all of this under the table. but he is running a huge risk that the bar association will find out when he actually made the deal - and then they can strip him of his license for it)

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:12 PM
Yes, another good point. Caylee might actually be in a location where "Zanny" (the person) supposedly took her, like the beach. For some reason, it just seems there's something of truth to what she's said, if "Zanny" is thought of as something other than a person. MOO


I agree, Panthera - I was wondering why nobody was looking more closely at "the beach", given that so much of the other stuff contains a kernel of truth, and she said Zanny took Caylee to the beach.

I think the truth being slipped out here is that the beach is probably where casey took caylee when saying she was going to work. Which leads me to believe that now that little caylee was talking more, she would/was telling grandmom cindy where her and mommy went all day.

MIMOMMY
08-17-2008, 08:15 PM
I think the truth being slipped out here is that the beach is probably where casey took caylee when saying she was going to work. Which leads me to believe that now that little caylee was talking more, she would/was telling grandmom cindy where her and mommy went all day.

Thats what I said Friday - she was almost 3 and had to have been at least StARTING to be vocal to the point of being able to "tell" on mommy:waitasec:

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:15 PM
This is from a little while ago, but i didn't have posting access yet when i read it and researched it.

There was a guy on Casey's page, he was from New York. Im almost positive that she wrote him while Caylee was missing and commented "i will call you soon". I found the song on his page a little odd considering the situation now happening and i looked up the words. It was quite disturbing considering the case at hand.

Now that casey's myspace is private, i can't find the guy's page anymore. Anyone know who and what im talking about or have a link to his page - his isn't private.


This city deserves a better type criminal and I'm going to give it to them. Is that the one? The line is from the Batman movie.

hmm Im not sure if that's the same guy, i didn't see that on this guy's page but i was intrigued by everything else that i may not have noticed. Even more interesting if it the same one!

jeepgirlva
08-17-2008, 08:16 PM
technically (and legally speaking), there cannot be any official deal for baez. as an attorney, you cannot accept future rights in any movie, book, etc for a case that you are currently working on - even your own book, movie, whatever. (this is not to say, of course, that he isn't doing all of this under the table. but he is running a huge risk that the bar association will find out when he actually made the deal - and then they can strip him of his license for it)
Yeah but he needs to be paid his large fee and these funds will be rolling in from a book deal or a movie deal...

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:16 PM
Thats what I said Friday - she was almost 3 and had to have been at least StARTING to be vocal to the point of being able to "tell" on mommy:waitasec:

Yeah, her lies of having a job weren't working out so well anymore now that Caylee could talk.

MommaD
08-17-2008, 08:17 PM
well no on has posted it but didn't anyone see the news clip earlier..??? i also caught something about police and a blog site.. got any ideas ? where they shutting it down?? think it was like taking possession of it.. hmmmm

bluedevil21
08-17-2008, 08:21 PM
Yeah but he needs to be paid his large fee and these funds will be rolling in from a book deal or a movie deal...

but he cannot use these to pay his legal fees, regardless of how large they are. not on the table at least. it is against the code of ethics for the ABA...

headndownstream
08-17-2008, 08:22 PM
Blanchard Park. The location Casey mentions in the phone call with Lee that she may have lost her 'blackjack'.

Thank you Rozey. :)

TheWoman
08-17-2008, 08:22 PM
Regarding Caylee not saying much about what went on all day (if that is the theory?): if it's true that she was being knocked out with Xanax, she might just not have had anything to tell, because she didn't know what went on when she was with her mother.

curiositycat
08-17-2008, 08:22 PM
I guess... I'm still convinced there is some hinky deal going on between Baez, Cowboy, and the "Journalist" in New York.
Thank goodness. I was beginning to think I was the only one that wasn't:blowkiss: drinking the kool-aid.

panthera
08-17-2008, 08:24 PM
I think the truth being slipped out here is that the beach is probably where casey took caylee when saying she was going to work. Which leads me to believe that now that little caylee was talking more, she would/was telling grandmom cindy where her and mommy went all day.
So then Caylee told Cindy where she was all day, and Cindy knew Casey wasn't really going to work? Yet Cindy continues to believe what Casey says about Zanny taking Caylee? :waitasec:

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:25 PM
http://www.myspace.com/hotnchaotic

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.Channel&ChannelID=44596752

ok, that's not him. Someone here had posted that a weirdo guy, with pictures of casey on TV in his album, had posted a weird comment on this guy's page (the one im looking for). Why'd they have to make her profile private?!

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Is it possible that the guy with the tatoos is Cowboy's newphew? Does anyone know who he is?

Going with my gut feelings here. Caylee is out there somewhere. I do not believe she's deceased.

JMO.

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:28 PM
So then Caylee told Cindy where she was all day, and Cindy knew Casey wasn't really going to work? Yet Cindy continues to believe what Casey says about Zanny taking Caylee? :waitasec:

Casey still needed someone to take Caylee while she partied. Cindy knew she partied and that wasn't going to change now that she had Caylee 24/7. Someone had to watch Caylee during those hours, that's why i don't think it's too far-fetched for Cindy to believe that Caylee was left overnight. (Just thinking from Cindy's belief point of view)

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:29 PM
Regarding Caylee not saying much about what went on all day (if that is the theory?): if it's true that she was being knocked out with Xanax, she might just not have had anything to tell, because she didn't know what went on when she was with her mother.
BINGO! Thus the name zanny.

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:32 PM
Sorry if this has been talked about already. Anyone ever mention that it's possible Casey put Caylee in the truck WITH the pizza. In Casey's twisted mind, at least the baby had something to eat. I know the GPs say it was a frozen pizza, in it's wrapper, but we know how they lie. It still wouldn't explain why Casey never threw it out. Just typing out loud.

headndownstream
08-17-2008, 08:33 PM
Stupid question maybe --- what size were all of those clothes that were found?

That's the thing, I heard they were size 5 (which was Caseys size clothes taken from her home last week), 2 backpacks, and some childs clothing. No further details that I've heard of yet, but I'm just catching up too.

RoseRed
08-17-2008, 08:33 PM
Casey never calls her Zanny only Cindy says Zanny. Casey always says Zaneida.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:35 PM
That's the thing, I heard they were size 5 (which was Caseys size clothes taken from her home last week), 2 backpacks, and some childs clothing. No further details that I've heard of yet, but I'm just catching up too.
Maybe they were donated, but smelled like smoke? Sorry, but I'm getting really frustrated with this whole LE thing.

Who is the tatooed guy? PLEASE, someone tell me?

panthera
08-17-2008, 08:35 PM
Casey still needed someone to take Caylee while she partied. Cindy knew she partied and that wasn't going to change now that she had Caylee 24/7. Someone had to watch Caylee during those hours, that's why i don't think it's too far-fetched for Cindy to believe that Caylee was left overnight. (Just thinking from Cindy's belief point of view)
And I haven't heard Cindy contradict what Clint said, that Casey told him Caylee was with Casey's parents. So maybe that part was true up to mid-June.

rozey
08-17-2008, 08:36 PM
well no on has posted it but didn't anyone see the news clip earlier..??? i also caught something about police and a blog site.. got any ideas ? where they shutting it down?? think it was like taking possession of it.. hmmmm

The clip about the bloggers find was about joseph and his group making the discovery at Blanchard Park, Two bookbags filled with womans and childs clothing. there is a thread all about it...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69153

Tigerlily
08-17-2008, 08:37 PM
Not a bad theory, however she was getting money from using her mother's credit card and allegedly took $700 from Amy (forged checks). I also agree with others if there were any videos someone in the media would've gotten hold of it already. MOO

A little late posting, but my feeling has always been 22yr old girls that steal that much $$ that often are doing it for drugs. I still have a theory that Casey was either on drugs and/or was "working" with a drug dealer and that is where she would go every day when she left to go to "Work," and thus could take Caylee w/her. In the course of this, being that drug dealers and such are usually seedy, scary people, something bad happened to Caylee and Casey is covering b/c she is afraid the drug dealers will come after the rest of her family or afraid of admitting to the drug dealing/using and child endangerment. Along w/my theory I go back and forth believing either Caylee was kille b/c of this situation somehow or was taken and is being held, although the latter case is unlikely b/c even if she was taken by now she's probably been killed. I dunno if this theory is realistic, it may be a stretch but I dated a a guy in my early 20s who went on to become a big druggie and drug dealer and he lied constantly and stole from everyone he knew, incl. me. The people he hung with scared me and I got out of a bad situation. I guess I am just trying to come up w/possible scenarios b/c I don't want to believe a mother could murder her own child.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:37 PM
Casey never calls her Zanny only Cindy says Zanny. Casey always says Zaneida.
I think we can put the Zaneida thing to bed. She doesn't exist, never has, never will. Caylee never spoke of Zanny or a "nanny". something or someone was watching Caylee. And it wasn't a nanny. JMO.

MIMOMMY
08-17-2008, 08:38 PM
If you go with the Xanax theory ---- Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Lee, "friends" didnt notice that she wasnt as active as a normal three year old?

Ever see a kid with to high of a ridalin dose? Zombie like - might as well just be sitting there drooling on theirselves...........you would THINK the same could be said for a 3 yr old that mommys sharing Xanax with :confused:




The backpack thing --- If your going to dump "murder" clothes or whatever clothes of hers they MAY be...........wouldnt you THINK she would be smarter than to dump them in a park and then say "Look for my cellphone there"
Of course --- one would think that she wouldnt lie about her job, her friends, her cash flow, the "nanny" and God only knows whatelse.........but just a thought........:bang:

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:38 PM
The news reporters really need to get on the ball with clearning up the sizing issue when reporting to the public. There are 2 sizes at play. Very similiar if looked at # value - both of the girls wore a size 2 or 3. Caylee would be 2T or 3T. Casey would be a women/juniors 2,3,4,5.

One of the reportes today talked about the size 5 clothes and said it would be for a "chunkier" KID. So now, are the clothes 5 ADULTS, which would be casey's size, or are they 5 KIDS? :doh:

commongrackle
08-17-2008, 08:38 PM
Cuppy, Bud says thanks!

He made is first "capture" at age 9 months, at a Longs drug store parking lot. He was a natural Shutzhoond.

Schutzhund.

Is he I, II or III?

MommaD
08-17-2008, 08:39 PM
The clip about the bloggers find was about joseph and his group making the discovery at Blanchard Park, Two bookbags filled with womans and childs clothing. there is a thread all about it...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69153

oh ok ty.. why do dogs have to potty when i am busy ? :blushing:

MIMOMMY
08-17-2008, 08:39 PM
Tigerlily --- Ive asked a few times if its "procedure" in Florida to drug test upon booking......

Id LOVE to see the results of some blood work on CASEY!

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:41 PM
A little late posting, but my feeling has always been 22yr old girls that steal that much $$ that often are doing it for drugs. I still have a theory that Casey was either on drugs and/or was "working" with a drug dealer and that is where she would go every day when she left to go to "Work," and thus could take Caylee w/her. In the course of this, being that drug dealers and such are usually seedy, scary people, something bad happened to Caylee and Casey is covering b/c she is afraid the drug dealers will come after the rest of her family or afraid of admitting to the drug dealing/using and child endangerment. Along w/my theory I go back and forth believing either Caylee was kille b/c of this situation somehow or was taken and is being held, although the latter case is unlikely b/c even if she was taken by now she's probably been killed. I dunno if this theory is realistic, it may be a stretch but I dated a a guy in my early 20s who went on to become a big druggie and drug dealer and he lied constantly and stole from everyone he knew, incl. me. The people he hung with scared me and I got out of a bad situation. I guess I am just trying to come up w/possible scenarios b/c I don't want to believe a mother could murder her own child.
Your theory is good. Mother's do murder their children, as we all know. But they usually crack or break much sooner than Casey has. She is protecting her child, and she knows who has her child. Or at least thought she did, before she was arrested.

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 08:43 PM
I always thought that maybe she was waiting 30 days to clear her system of drugs. It isn't really something that anyone of her friends would want to mention they noticed, ya know? So it probably wouldn't surface. What person, who is busy partying and lieing about work, would remember exactly 31 days. 31 is such an odd number, why not just say "i haven't seen her in a month"? I have ALWAYS been suspicious as to why she was counting the exact days down to the 1s. Also that could play into the theory that she let osmoene take caylee somewhere and was then to meet up with them. Casey would be counting the days until she left.

Elley Mae
08-17-2008, 08:44 PM
Your theory is good. Mother's do murder their children, as we all know. But they usually crack or break much sooner than Casey has. She is protecting her child, and she knows who has her child. Or at least thought she did, before she was arrested.

I think she's a different breed of cat,and she is trying to save her azz. I still like you.

sleuthmommy
08-17-2008, 08:45 PM
I always thought that maybe she was waiting 30 days to clear her system of drugs. It isn't really something that anyone of her friends would want to mention they noticed, ya know? So it probably wouldn't surface. What person, who is busy partying and lieing about work, would remember exactly 31 days. 31 is such an odd number, why not just say "i haven't seen her in a month"? I have ALWAYS been suspicious as to why she was counting the exact days down to the 1s. Also that could play into the theory that she let osmoene take caylee somewhere and was then to meet up with them. Casey would be counting the days until she left.

She didn't exactly come forward. Cindy went out and found her and confronted her because when she found her, Caylee was nowhere to be found. Don't think Casey counted on Cindy coming to find her; at least not yet. I think Cindy was the one who started with the 31 days because supposedly, she hadn't seen Caylee in that many days.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:45 PM
If you go with the Xanax theory ---- Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Lee, "friends" didnt notice that she wasnt as active as a normal three year old?

Ever see a kid with to high of a ridalin dose? Zombie like - might as well just be sitting there drooling on theirselves...........you would THINK the same could be said for a 3 yr old that mommys sharing Xanax with :confused:



:bang:

Snipping to address. Zanny was the pill that put Caylee to sleep. She wouldn't drool or act like a zombie all the time if both of them were taking the pills.

and, it's too bad that Casey wasn't tested for drugs, that we know of. But maybe she was. I have always said I would like to see her toxicology results from day one.

Pretty simple to give a child a small dose of Xanax to put her to sleep any time and any where. Like the back of a car. JMO. Or a back room in a bar.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 08:46 PM
Your theory is good. Mother's do murder their children, as we all know. But they usually crack or break much sooner than Casey has. She is protecting her child, and she knows who has her child. Or at least thought she did, before she was arrested.

And she would not reveal that to the police so that they could immediately go get her baby?? That makes positively no sense at all.

That is a lot of baloney from someone who is guilty of something. That is not even a good enough scenario for a Lifetime movie! Sorry, but come on!

edgeofnight
08-17-2008, 08:47 PM
Thank goodness. I was beginning to think I was the only one that wasn't:blowkiss: drinking the kool-aid.

Believe me, you are not alone. Something way wrong going on here. I need to find that rant thread again.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:48 PM
I think she's a different breed of cat,and she is trying to save her azz. I still like you.
I think she "used" to think she knew who had her child. She no longer has a clue. JMO.

TheWoman
08-17-2008, 08:48 PM
I could be mistaken, but to me, it's always just seemed like Casey talks like a cop's daughter - i.e., "31 days" (specific), "recover/retrieve" rather than "find" the phone, etc. I grew up with a doctor's children as friends, and from an early age, they were definitely indoctrinated (no pun) to use medical terminology. It's very weird to hear children referring to body parts as their correct names, but it could help explain why Casey talks like she does, since her father was formerly in law enforcement.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 08:50 PM
And she would not reveal that to the police so that they could immediately go get her baby?? That makes positively no sense at all.

That is a lot of baloney from someone who is guilty of something. That is not even a good enough scenario for a Lifetime movie! Sorry, but come on!
So far, she is charged with of child neglect or endangerment. Can't remember the proper term.

If LE had something more, they would charge her. JMO.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 08:53 PM
So far, she is charged with of child neglect or endangerment. Can't remember the proper term.

If LE had something more, they would charge her. JMO.

Not necessarily. No statute of limitations on murder and the DA decides when to charge. They may be convening the Grand Jury and calling people to testify. It's not always a quick process. Look how long they took to charge Scott Peterson...they waited to find a body. Maybe the same thing is happening here. JMO. But thinking that they don't have evidence yet becasue they haven't charged her yet is wrong.

Elley Mae
08-17-2008, 08:55 PM
I think she "used" to think she knew who had her child. She no longer has a clue. JMO.

I'm confused? If she didn't have a job, then why would she have a need for a "nanny" are you suggesting that there was a person that watched Caylee on occasion that Casey left her with and when she returned no Caylee or Nanny? And because everything that Casey has said is a lie that the Nanny is a lie.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 08:57 PM
I'm confused? If she didn't have a job, then why would she have a need for a "nanny" are you suggesting that there was a person that watched Caylee on occasion that Casey left her with and when she returned no Caylee or Nanny? And because everything that Casey has said is a lie that the Nanny is a lie.

She didn't have a job but she lied to her parents that she did, thus lying about having a nanny! She claimed to have a very successful job with Kodak, etc.

tttterri
08-17-2008, 08:57 PM
When the sources that revealed the pinging of the cell towers on Caseys phone to be in the vicinity of the airport and wooded area, they stated that they did not know which side of the airport. If that is the case, how do we know she wasnt IN the airport? It was said to be around 11am on June 17. That does not seem like a good time to go off hiding things in the woods to me. If anyone can find where they stated one side of airport or another, please post that info to help me understand this. thanks. Either way, I have not heard them say that she was not pinged in the actual airport area. Anyone know anything on this? I based that 11am time on greta saying that there were no more calls from 720pm on June 16 until 11am June 17.

panthera
08-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Not necessarily. No statute of limitations on murder and the DA decides when to charge. They may be convening the Grand Jury and calling people to testify. It's not always a quick process. Look how long they took to charge Scott Peterson...they waited to find a body. Maybe the same thing is happening here. JMO. But thinking that they don't have evidence yet becasue they haven't charged her yet is wrong.
There's another case in California where a woman disappeared 2 yrs. ago, and though some blood was found in her house and van, her body hasn't been found and just this past week her ex-husband was ordered to stand trial in her murder. Things move more slowly especially when there's no body, imo.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:00 PM
There's another case in California where a woman disappeared 2 yrs. ago, and though some blood was found in her house and van, her body hasn't been found and just this past week her ex-husband was ordered to stand trial in her murder. Things move more slowly especially when there's no body, imo.

You are so correct Panthera! I have not heard about that case. And even with a body, what about Kathleen Salvio and Nancy Cooper? I think the police know who killed them but they only get one bite of the apple so they are not going to charge unless they think they have the evidence to win.
(And I thought I knew all the murder cases without bodies!?!?!)

yolorado
08-17-2008, 09:01 PM
LOL. I think you are right. In this case, I think the truth may not be a great friend to the defense attorney.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 09:02 PM
When the sources that revealed the pinging of the cell towers on Caseys phone to be in the vicinity of the airport and wooded area, they stated that they did not know which side of the airport. If that is the case, how do we know she wasnt IN the airport? It was said to be around 11am on June 17. That does not seem like a good time to go off hiding things in the woods to me. If anyone can find where they stated one side of airport or another, please post that info to help me understand this. thanks. Either way, I have not heard them say that she was not pinged in the actual airport area. Anyone know anything on this? I based that 11am time on greta saying that there were no more calls from 720pm on June 16 until 11am June 17.
Intesting. And how come did some tipster say they saw Caylee in the airport? Can't remember the exact date. Does anyone remember the date? TIA.

I'm not going to go in details here, but the tipster said the child said her name was Caylee Anfony.... as Caylee always said.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:03 PM
When the sources that revealed the pinging of the cell towers on Caseys phone to be in the vicinity of the airport and wooded area, they stated that they did not know which side of the airport. If that is the case, how do we know she wasnt IN the airport? It was said to be around 11am on June 17. That does not seem like a good time to go off hiding things in the woods to me. If anyone can find where they stated one side of airport or another, please post that info to help me understand this. thanks. Either way, I have not heard them say that she was not pinged in the actual airport area. Anyone know anything on this? I based that 11am time on greta saying that there were no more calls from 720pm on June 16 until 11am June 17.

You know this information was never released by the police. Somebody at a station in Orlando got this info and put it out there. The cops were NOT happy with it as they had purposefully withheld info from June 17 and then this station releases 'inside information' about pings from the airport on June 17. They have not put out any more detailed reports since then so maybe LE talked to them.

Ginny
08-17-2008, 09:03 PM
If Caylee is in a body of water, hopefully the hurricane moving in will hell it wash ashore -- that's what happened to Laci and Connor Peterson's body.

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:04 PM
You are so correct Panthera! I have not heard about that case. And even with a body, what about Kathleen Salvio and Nancy Cooper? I think the police know who killed them but they only get one bite of the apple so they are not going to charge unless they think they have the evidence to win.
(And I thought I knew all the murder cases without bodies!?!?!)
Her name is Debbie Hawk. :)

http://www.kmph.com/Global/story.asp?S=8847563&nav=menu612_9_6

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 09:05 PM
I'm confused? If she didn't have a job, then why would she have a need for a "nanny" are you suggesting that there was a person that watched Caylee on occasion that Casey left her with and when she returned no Caylee or Nanny? And because everything that Casey has said is a lie that the Nanny is a lie.
Yep, obviously Casey was lying about the Nanny. No question on that one. JMO.

Caylee probabaly had about 2000 different people who were "nanny's".

JMO.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:05 PM
Her name is Debbie Hawk. :)

http://www.kmph.com/Global/story.asp?S=8847563&nav=menu612_9_6

Thank you so much. I will read up on it.

tttterri
08-17-2008, 09:05 PM
Yes dunlurkin, I was thinking about that also. I believe LE said to news later that they decided it was not a credible tip, and that although the lady tipster gave them a description and a composite was made, that they chose not to release it. They also stated there was no video of the people. Could it be that the airports tapes auto tape over after so many days, it had been over 30 by then. The airport has a lot of cameras so that would be a lot of tapes to keep.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:06 PM
If Caylee is in a body of water, hopefully the hurricane moving in will hell it wash ashore -- that's what happened to Laci and Connor Peterson's body.

But would the decomposition be far more advanced than it was with Laci because she was in the cold Pacific? I am afraid that in the boggy water, swampy, and the heat and humidity, it would be a skeleton. I still want her found and given a decent burial, but not much help in the way of cause of death. I am just assuming and could be wrong.

Elley Mae
08-17-2008, 09:07 PM
Yep, obviously Casey was lying about the Nanny. No question on that one. JMO.

Caylee probabaly had about 2000 different people who were "nanny's".

JMO.

So what do you think she was doing to need a "nanny".

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 09:09 PM
You know this information was never released by the police. Somebody at a station in Orlando got this info and put it out there. The cops were NOT happy with it as they had purposefully withheld info from June 17 and then this station releases 'inside information' about pings from the airport on June 17. They have not put out any more detailed reports since then so maybe LE talked to them.
I honestly thought that was a credible tip. I hope LE can still find those people. It was very early on in the case, and now we are finding out that they did know what they were talking about, based on the cell phone pings.

JMO.

Sparky
08-17-2008, 09:09 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere. If it is. Sorry for reposting.

Tonight on Fox
10:00pm
1:00am
Cops, Cases & Clues: The Search for Caylee Anthony
From the minute the story broke, Greta has been taking you inside the investigation! Now, new developments in the Caylee Anthony

jinnimae
08-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Maybe they were donated, but smelled like smoke? Sorry, but I'm getting really frustrated with this whole LE thing.

Who is the tatooed guy? PLEASE, someone tell me?

Please go to one of the threads (Gen discuss) from last night...maybe 96 or 97. It was discussed quite a bit, and no, the tat man is not the cowboy.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:10 PM
So what do you think she was doing to need a "nanny".

She didn't need one but I always have wondered if she used the having a nanny lie to get money out of her mom to (fake) pay her. It would make sense because she had no income.

I DO remember Cindy saying that before Casey took off for a month, they paid all her bills, including her cell phone bill.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 09:10 PM
So what do you think she was doing to need a "nanny".
hooking

JMO. And no way does she want her parents and family to know that.

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:11 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere. If it is. Sorry for reposting.

Tonight on Fox
10:00pm
1:00am
Cops, Cases & Clues: The Search for Caylee Anthony
From the minute the story broke, Greta has been taking you inside the investigation! Now, new developments in the Caylee Anthony

This is a repeat of the special Greta did last weekend. If you didn't catch it then, it's good.

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:12 PM
Thank you so much. I will read up on it.
You're welcome! :) In Caylee's case, should she also not be found, they'd need some evidence such as that from the car to bring murder charges, imo. Casey's lies and this nanny story don't make it look good for her, but like you said, they only get one chance at a conviction.

karenmamo
08-17-2008, 09:12 PM
This is a repeat of the special Greta did last weekend. If you didn't catch it then, it's good.
Oh no, I thought it was a new show. Disappointed.

Tigerlily
08-17-2008, 09:12 PM
has anyone seen the movie "Gone Baby Gone?" I wonder if Casey saw this and is using elements from the film to make up her story? It's about a little girl supposedly abducted b/c her druggie mom stole money from a druglord and then the druglord kills her but it turns out that several members of LE are involved in a staged kidnapping to get the money and the girl turns out to be OK.

christine2448
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
I think we can put the Zaneida thing to bed. She doesn't exist, never has, never will. Caylee never spoke of Zanny or a "nanny". something or someone was watching Caylee. And it wasn't a nanny. JMO.

She did exist. Just any contact w/Caylee,Casey? The only thing in common is the Sawgrass Apts. I am POSITIVE I read that Zeneida Gonzalez had lost her ID.

EastSideOfSaddness
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
But would the decomposition be far more advanced than it was with Laci because she was in the cold Pacific? I am afraid that in the boggy water, swampy, and the heat and humidity, it would be a skeleton. I still want her found and given a decent burial, but not much help in the way of cause of death. I am just assuming and could be wrong.

I hate to even write this as it makes me sick, but yes it HAS been VERY VERY hot in Orlando and the body would probably be bones by now.

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Oh no, I thought it was a new show. Disappointed.
Never new shows on the weekend. Just Mon. through Fri. (Nancy Grace as well).

Heading out for the night. Later people!

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
You're welcome! :) In Caylee's case, should she also not be found, they'd need some evidence such as that from the car to bring murder charges, imo. Casey's lies and this nanny story don't make it look good for her, but like you said, they only get one chance at a conviction.

You are absolutely correct. Maybe they are hoping she will talk, too. Not voluntarily but blabber to someone. Most murderers do at some point.

CASuzk
08-17-2008, 09:14 PM
You know, just once, I would like to hear Cindy admit that they had one hell of a blow up before Caylee went missing.

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:14 PM
She didn't need one but I always have wondered if she used the having a nanny lie to get money out of her mom to (fake) pay her. It would make sense because she had no income.

I DO remember Cindy saying that before Casey took off for a month, they paid all her bills, including her cell phone bill.
That makes perfect sense why she'd invent the nanny to begin with, imo.

BostonSu
08-17-2008, 09:14 PM
Intesting. And how come did some tipster say they saw Caylee in the airport? Can't remember the exact date. Does anyone remember the date? TIA.

I'm not going to go in details here, but the tipster said the child said her name was Caylee Anfony.... as Caylee always said.

The "tip" was reported by Cindy. So forgive me if I'm VERY doubtful that it ever really happened.

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:16 PM
I hate to even write this as it makes me sick, but yes it HAS been VERY VERY hot in Orlando and the body would probably be bones by now.
Not to be too gross either, but what if she was put where gators are? I agree about the decomposition, after 2 mo. in this heat, even if she was in a shallow grave. :(

Tracy1
08-17-2008, 09:16 PM
You know, just once, I would like to hear Cindy admit that they had one hell of a blow up before Caylee went missing.

I couldn't agree more. Or admit to something...! Like that Casey is a habitual liar. She surely knows this.

By acting like she doesn't, nothing she says is credible.

SeriouslySearching
08-17-2008, 09:16 PM
Intesting. And how come did some tipster say they saw Caylee in the airport? Can't remember the exact date. Does anyone remember the date? TIA.

I'm not going to go in details here, but the tipster said the child said her name was Caylee Anfony.... as Caylee always said.I don't recall them giving an exact date. Also, the so-called tipster said that the little girl said, "Ant-ney" like the family pronounces it (leaving out the "tho" sound).

dunlurken
08-17-2008, 09:16 PM
She did exist. Just any contact w/Caylee,Casey? The only thing in common is the Sawgrass Apts. I am POSITIVE I read that Zeneida Gonzalez had lost her ID.
Yes, her and about 10 other Zenaida's in Orange County. There is much more to this than meets the eye. :waitasec:

funny, that Cindy never met this Zanny.

Okay, I'm really going now. BYE!

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:17 PM
You know, just once, I would like to hear Cindy admit that they had one hell of a blow up before Caylee went missing.
And what that blowup was about!

Elley Mae
08-17-2008, 09:17 PM
hooking

JMO. And no way does she want her parents and family to know that.

OK I'll go with that,but do you think that there was one person watching Caylee or different people? And why did she wait until her mother caught up with her and then lie? And wouldn't at least 1 john come forward for the sake of Caylee?

Themis
08-17-2008, 09:19 PM
I've been thinking about "31 days" and thought of drug testing.

Drug Detection Time Alcohol 6-24 hours Amphetamines 2-3 days Barbituates 1 day to 3 weeks Benzodiazepines 3-7 days Cocaine 2-5 days Codeine 3-5 days Euphorics (MDMA, Ecstasy) 1-3 days LSD 1-4 days Marijuana (THC) 7-30 days Methadone 3-5 days Methaqualone 14 days Opiates 1-4 days Phencyclidine (PCP) 2-4 days Steroids (anabolic) 14-30 days

Themis
08-17-2008, 09:20 PM
And what that blowup was about!

I thought it was said it was about the "right time" for Casey and Caylee to move to their own place.

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 09:20 PM
You know, just once, I would like to hear Cindy admit that they had one hell of a blow up before Caylee went missing.

agreed.

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:23 PM
I've been thinking about "31 days" and thought of drug testing.

Drug Detection Time Alcohol 6-24 hours Amphetamines 2-3 days Barbituates 1 day to 3 weeks Benzodiazepines 3-7 days Cocaine 2-5 days Codeine 3-5 days Euphorics (MDMA, Ecstasy) 1-3 days LSD 1-4 days Marijuana (THC) 7-30 days Methadone 3-5 days Methaqualone 14 days Opiates 1-4 days Phencyclidine (PCP) 2-4 days Steroids (anabolic) 14-30 days
So then it would be either marijuana or steroids. I always thought the 31 days came from something Cindy had said about a "month" and then Casey said "31 days" later during the 911 call, like she just picked up on what Cindy said and made it more specific.

Elley Mae
08-17-2008, 09:25 PM
I've been thinking about "31 days" and thought of drug testing.

Drug Detection Time Alcohol 6-24 hours Amphetamines 2-3 days Barbituates 1 day to 3 weeks Benzodiazepines 3-7 days Cocaine 2-5 days Codeine 3-5 days Euphorics (MDMA, Ecstasy) 1-3 days LSD 1-4 days Marijuana (THC) 7-30 days Methadone 3-5 days Methaqualone 14 days Opiates 1-4 days Phencyclidine (PCP) 2-4 days Steroids (anabolic) 14-30 days

If not mistaken the test you refer to are urine,not sure about blood, Hair is a different animal IIRC (9 months) back. they can see what drug you had taken.

Themis
08-17-2008, 09:25 PM
So then it would be either marijuana or steroids. I always thought the 31 days came from something Cindy had said about a "month" and then Casey said "31 days" later during the 911 call, like she just picked up on what Cindy said and made it more specific.

Could also be a cumulative effect of using drugs. If drugs were used often -- even prescription drugs bought on the street -- and used frequently, it would take 31 days to fairly assured of being clear. The liver is a detox organ and generally recovery programs mark 31 day as a milestone because the liver is clear.

pregodego2
08-17-2008, 09:26 PM
Every single day Cindy should be made to read her myspace entry from July 4th. She had a clear head that day and wrote from her heart the truth that now everyone else knows about her daughter. She has somehow ended up back into the "mother's love is blind" mode.

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:26 PM
I thought it was said it was about the "right time" for Casey and Caylee to move to their own place.
Well, it seems Casey was already doing that by staying at Tony's, but without Caylee.

Elley Mae
08-17-2008, 09:27 PM
Every single day Cindy should be made to read her myspace entry from July 4th. She had a clear head that day and wrote from her heart the truth that now everyone else knows about her daughter. She has somehow ended up back into the "mother's love is blind" mode.

IIRC July 3rd.

Themis
08-17-2008, 09:27 PM
Well, it seems Casey was already doing that by staying at Tony's, but without Caylee.

Casey and Amy were supposed to move in together on June 15th or 16th. Their own place. Maybe Casey didn't intend to take Caylee with her and hence the blow-up.

jd_martin
08-17-2008, 09:28 PM
I've been thinking about "31 days" and thought of drug testing.

Drug Detection Time Alcohol 6-24 hours Amphetamines 2-3 days Barbituates 1 day to 3 weeks Benzodiazepines 3-7 days Cocaine 2-5 days Codeine 3-5 days Euphorics (MDMA, Ecstasy) 1-3 days LSD 1-4 days Marijuana (THC) 7-30 days Methadone 3-5 days Methaqualone 14 days Opiates 1-4 days Phencyclidine (PCP) 2-4 days Steroids (anabolic) 14-30 days

Hair folical (spelling?) test could go back further. These detection times are for a UA. I had to take a hair test for child custody and they said they test about 6 months back and said it could go further depending on what the reason they where testing for. I watched a show that proved egyptians used cocaine by doing hair test on a mummy. Just a little random knowledge lol.

christine2448
08-17-2008, 09:29 PM
Continue here please. (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2513172#post2513172)

panthera
08-17-2008, 09:29 PM
Could also be a cumulative effect of using drugs. If drugs were used often -- even prescription drugs bought on the street -- and used frequently, it would take 31 days to fairly assured of being clear. The liver is a detox organ and generally recovery programs mark 31 day as a milestone because the liver is clear.
Oh, that's interesting. Why would Casey be so concerned about any drugs being out of her system though when she didn't even know her mom was going to find her that day? On the other hand, could she have known this information, maybe as it applied to Caylee and when, if she was found, there wouldn't be any evidence in her body?