Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #21

[mahmoo]

We need to do it and place a wide ribbon across it with her name. Just like we see on the road side.
If it is removed we can turn it into the CPD for stolen property.

You know NCN...we need to do it and one to catch everyone's attention. Someone needs to be reminded she was not a piece of trash to be tossed on the side of the road like she had done to her.

Well ya might need more than one....if you put one back where her body was found no one will ever see it.

[momto3kids]

Well ya might need more than one....if you put one back where her body was found no one will ever see it.

I want one behind her home either behind the fence or the median on Lochmere Drive. Some put a small purple one at her site, so we can pass on that at this time. The developers might not like it since they are trying to sell the lots...no one would buy if they see this.

[mahmoo]

I would love to order some flowers for her.....in remembrance of her.....just don't know where to tell them to put the flowers.

[momto3kids]

Mom, you heard from a RELIABLE source that NC's face was badly beaten? Do tell.

As I have said...for some reason I don't have to leave home to hear details...who knows why, I certainly don't.

But anyway I got home this evening and one of the kids who went on the search with us on Monday the 14th was here as he normally is. I have not mentioned BC to him since that day, but did tonight.
He said...I remember his tatoo so clearly...He went on to describe it. Then the jacket and hat BC wore.

Next he said, I heard Nancy's face was pretty badly beaten. I didn't have to ask him how he knew.....it hit me broadside...1 of NC close friends was his dads neighbor. I couldn't say another word, but left the room.

This is the way I feel this innocent child found out...

[fran]

Well, that's funny..because I was about to ask, trying to figure out where the whole SH and Brad friendship speculation was going...Sooo, you all are suggesting you think there's something else between them? (no pun intended either)

No, was NOT suggesting that.

Just think they're ehhh...:waitasec:......different.

NOT what a NORMAL person would do, befriend a person who had SE* with your wife nor befriend your adulteress partner's mate.:eek:

JMHO
fran

[fran]

As I have said...for some reason I don't have to leave home to hear details...who knows why, I certainly don't.

But anyway I got home this evening and one of the kids who went on the search with us on Monday the 14th was here as he normally is. I have not mentioned BC to him since that day, but did tonight.
He said...I remember his tatoo so clearly...He went on to explain it. Then the jacket and hat BC wore.

Next he said, I heard Nancy's face was pretty badly beaten. I didn't have to ask him how he knew.....it hit me broadside...1 of NC close friends was his dads neighbor. I couldn't say another word, but left the room.

This is the way I feel this innocent child found out...


That's awful momt3k.

Makes you sick what some people can do to another human. :(

Poor Nancy.

fran

[momto3kids]

I would love to order some flowers for her.....in remembrance of her.....just don't know where to tell them to put the flowers.
Are you saying real flowers?

[EntreNous]

Fresh flowers wouldn't last a day in the heat. Silk might be the way to go.

[momto3kids]

That's awful momt3k.

Makes you sick what some people can do to another human. :(

Poor Nancy.

fran

You know Fran...if I recall the ME asked for dental records. Also someone reported bludgeoned, was that a slip on someones part?

I can see him now in a rage and taking his aggression out on her. :mad:

[mahmoo]

Are you saying real flowers?

Ideally yes....but as Entre mentioned.....they wouldn't survive long.

[mahmoo]

You know Fran...if I recall the ME asked for dental records. Also someone reported bludgeoned, was that a slip on someones part?

I can see him now in a rage and taking his aggression out on her. :mad:

I think he did something to her that made her bleed.....otherwise....he wouldn't have needed any type of cleaner reallyl.

[momto3kids]

I'll make one and figure out how to place it. On a wire stand, it can't blow over or be taken so easily. I'll do it when it's dark outside, though.

Are you going to go to a craft shop and get the items to put this together? I know AC Moore has many supplies, as well as I was impressed with JoAnn's.

[SleuthyGal]

I think he did something to her that made her bleed.....otherwise....he wouldn't have needed any type of cleaner reallyl. In one sense I hope that's true ONLY because it means a much greater chance of forensic evidence being left at the scene, in the car, etc. I mean at this point she's already gone, so as horrible as it is to contemplate him beating her, IF he did so then there is likely some physical evidence he wasn't able to totally clean.

I could imagine a beating because based on things released and talked about in the affidavits, he hated her, IMHO. She was (just) a possession who was no longer playing her appointed role and hadn't for some time. She was on the cusp of finally getting away from him and possibly with a decent settlement to boot. That would enrage a narcissistic/controlling/misogynist, in my opinion. :furious:

[momto3kids]

I think he did something to her that made her bleed.....otherwise....he wouldn't have needed any type of cleaner reallyl.

IMO he made her bleed and it wasn't a love tap....he admitted to buying detergent and it wasn't because he normally gets up on Saturdays to strip beds.

NOPE...not like when I grew up and Saturday mornings were the mornings to strip the beds....

Remember the chief answered the question about bleach @4am...she responded 'bleach or any cleaning supplies?'

She went a tad further than the question that was asked.

[fran]

You know Fran...if I recall the ME asked for dental records. Also someone reported bludgeoned, was that a slip on someones part?

I can see him now in a rage and taking his aggression out on her. :mad:

Yeah, Mr. Ironman! :furious:

JMHO
fran

[SleuthyGal]

Remember the chief answered the question about bleach @4am...she responded 'bleach or any cleaning supplies?'

She went a tad further than the question that was asked.

Do you happen to have a link to where I can see video of that particular press conf? I'm assuming it's online somewhere...

Also, in a beat-her-up scenario, that answers the question of why he was so desperate to get some detergent--so desperate that he had to make a SUPER EARLY morning visit to HT. I'm surprised he didn't buy additional cleaning supplies beyond just the detergent (though who knows...maybe he stopped in at another store somewhere and purchased some?) He probably went through at least a couple sets of sheets and a bunch of towels. Doubt he had a tarp or 2 at the ready.

[momto3kids]

OT...Do any of you remember the link provided for us when WS server was being worked on?

[momto3kids]

Do you happen to have a link to where I can see video of that particular press conf? I'm assuming it's online somewhere...

Also, in a beat-her-up scenario, that answers the question of why he was so desperate to get some detergent--so desperate that he had to make an EARLY morning visit. I'm surprised he didn't buy additional cleaning supplies beyond just the detergent (though who knows...maybe he stopped in at another store somewhere and purchased some?) He probably went through at least a couple sets of sheets and a bunch of towels. Doubt he had a tarp or 2 at the ready.

And another reason to go to LTF? Dumpsters? IIRC...Waste Management doesn't pick up on weekends...and if he carried around these items to get rid of them on Saturday and LE sensed it....maybe they found them????
But again he was gone for almost 3 hrs, he could have driven to Fayetteville and back in that amount of time.

[SleuthyGal]

And another reason to go to LTF? Dumpsters? IIRC...Waste Management doesn't pick up on weekends...and if he carried around these items to get rid of them on Saturday and LE sensed it....maybe they found them????
But again he was gone for almost 3 hrs, he could have driven to Fayetteville and back in that amount of time.

I HOPE & PRAY that LE was able to obtain forensic evidence that will help put away the person who did this to Nancy...forever! I want this murdering scumbag to not have another day of freedom in his life. He should never have another night of restful sleep. I hope Nancy haunts him everyday for the rest of his miserable life. :furious: :behindbar And if this case does not qualify as a DP case, then I hope he lives a very long time in a teeny tiny little jail cell.

[Alcina]

OT...Do any of you remember the link provided for us when WS server was being worked on?

Is this it? http://forums.delphiforums.com/wbsleuthsbacku1/

[momto3kids]

I HOPE & PRAY that LE was able to obtain forensic evidence that will help put away the person who did this to Nancy...forever! I want this murdering scumbag to not have another day of freedom in his life. He should never have another night of restful sleep. I hope Nancy haunts him everyday for the rest of his miserable life. :furious: :behindbar And if this case does not qualify as a DP case, then I hope he lives a very long time in a teeny tiny little jail cell.

I agree with you 100%, with the exception it is our taxpayer $$ to keep his sorry butt up.

:bedtime:

[momto3kids]

Is this it? http://forums.delphiforums.com/wbsleuthsbacku1/

Thank you so much for that...I couldn't find it as hard as I tried. Guess being it is 2am I am too tired.

[Star12]

Are you going to go to a craft shop and get the items to put this together? I know AC Moore has many supplies, as well as I was impressed with JoAnn's.

I so love the ideas of some flowers. You do know, don't you, that Monday is Nancy's birthday. What a lovely thing to do for her.

If something is placed on the median, though, I think it would be appropriate to speak with --who? -- Public Works? Whoever controls the roadways. To get their sanction for placing it there and making sure township workers don't remove it.

Maybe we could have a birthday coffee for her this weekend, at perhaps an unpublished time and place. (for our safety and anominimity).

[sunflowers]

And another reason to go to LTF? Dumpsters? IIRC...Waste Management doesn't pick up on weekends...and if he carried around these items to get rid of them on Saturday and LE sensed it....maybe they found them????
But again he was gone for almost 3 hrs, he could have driven to Fayetteville and back in that amount of time.

might be interesting to try to put a timetable together on where he was during that time. with his girls in the car. what on earth was he doing?

to be gone for 3 hours means that the house at that point was probably cleaned up, the car must have been (could have had it detailed somewhere----would be on phone records, though, & he's smarter than that, i would think)

on sat, did he open up his cars & house for LE to look at then? or just the house? i couldn't remember. but i believe when he was "cooperative", he invited them to look at either cars and/or house.

same with the "dump site". he's smarter than looking on-line in the middle of the night, i would think. everything on the computer is looked carefully at.... he would be very aware of that, i would think

[sunflowers]

I honestly think he HAD to get RID of something and MAYBE wash his car. Wonder if LE has gone to the car washes around there on Saturday, about the time Brad was 'looking for Nancy,' (between 1 - 3 pm) to check if it was anyone's normal routine and they may have seen him there that day?:confused:

That COULD be informative.

JMHO
fran

totally agree. i would think he had to have had the inside of the car detailed if he put nancy's body in the car. even if she were on a tarp etc. bunky's on cary parkway & kildare does detail inside-the-car cleaning by appointment, but also you can just show up.

my guess is that he would have done an initial quick, outside car wash and then on Sat aft done the more detailed one. that would take some time.

and he might have gone to a different car wash that wasn't as convenient or therefore as easily checked out. doubt it, though, since time was of the essence

and how much time was he at LTF? where else?

did they put the search together on Sat or Sun?

[Roy23]

In one sense I hope that's true ONLY because it means a much greater chance of forensic evidence being left at the scene, in the car, etc. I mean at this point she's already gone, so as horrible as it is to contemplate him beating her, IF he did so then there is likely some physical evidence he wasn't able to totally clean.

I could imagine a beating because based on things released and talked about in the affidavits, he hated her, IMHO. She was (just) a possession who was no longer playing her appointed role and hadn't for some time. She was on the cusp of finally getting away from him and possibly with a decent settlement to boot. That would enrage a narcissistic/controlling/misogynist, in my opinion. :furious:


If he beat her with an object or his hands in their house or car, LE will no doubt solve this case easily. Tide with bleach is absolutely no match for Luminol.

[SleuthyGal]

If he beat her with an object or his hands in their house or car, LE will no doubt solve this case easily. Tide with bleach is absolutely no match for Luminol.

Only if she bled. Not every 'beating' results in blood loss.

[EntreNous]

If he beat her with an object or his hands in their house or car, LE will no doubt solve this case easily. Tide with bleach is absolutely no match for Luminol.

I don't think he beat her with his hands. They looked pretty pristine at the last presser he attended and he made sure they were seen by the camera.

That is unless he was wearing gloves. If you beat someone with say leather gloves, couldn't that protect his hands? Plus that would constitute premeditation.

[SleuthyGal]

I don't think he beat her with his hands. They looked pretty pristine at the last presser he attended and he made sure they were seen by the camera. Yes the camera panned in on his hands as he was wringing them over and over.

[carolinalady]

CL,

I posted at length in a previous thread about the issues with the "OWL THEORY". Getting into the staircase was no sweat. It managed to kill her, clean up some of the blood, and escape the house without being seen, or leaving any feathers behind. I know owls are supposed to be wise, but this thing was bordering on genius! :crazy:

CyberPro

CP, according to an article (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/durham/story/1185480.html) in today's N&O, there was a microscopic feather. :crazy:

[EntreNous]

CP, according to an article (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/durham/story/1185480.html) in today's N&O, there was a microscopic feather. :crazy:

Oh, my! I had no idea what all the owl talk was until now. Crazy!!!:crazy:

[ncnative]

Time to call in the owl specialists! Ha ha. The owl would have to have been on crack to attack a woman to death like that. If an owl were attacking me, I'd just grab its fat little body and choke it. I'd be ashamed to put forth such a stupid theory.

The feather probably came from a feather duster or one of Michael Petersen's hired male prostitutes. Owl feathered thongs are hot items in that department, I suppose.

Petersen's ex-neighbor, lawyer turned businessman must be a real loser.

I bet the autopsy on Nancy Cooper won't even show that the buzzards attacked her. Are there any owl tracks on Jason Young's pillow, BTW? Owls could be starting a new genetic predisposition toward murdering unwanted wives.

[Skittles]

G'morning, all!

I have a report back from Lifetime Fitness. I checked out the lobby. There are at least four cameras there. They are the type that attach to a ceiling and are covered by a black semi-circular cover. You cannot tell in which direction they are aimed. If anyone (are you here, RC?) is really interested, I could describe the lobby and camera locations in more detail.

I checked out the computers in the childcare center. I still believe BC did not use these. The computers are behind the kiddie gate and the desks are at the level of young children. I cannot see BC there; isn't he 6'2" or 4"? I mean, if he really wanted to stick out and be remembered, that's where he'd go.

I did have to laugh while I was there. They paged someone to come to the "towel center." I was imagining a couple of CPD's finest down in a big towel room interviewing people.

[ncnative]

Monday is Nancy's birthday. Great! I'll take care of the silk flower wreath. You guys look out for it by the weekend. I'm slow, but I've done these things before. It won't be huge, just "tasteful". I will probably tie it to a tree or use wire "legs".

[raisincharlie]

G'morning, all!

I have a report back from Lifetime Fitness. I checked out the lobby. There are at least four cameras there. They are the type that attach to a ceiling and are covered by a black semi-circular cover. You cannot tell in which direction they are aimed. If anyone (are you here, RC?) is really interested, I could describe the lobby and camera locations in more detail.

I checked out the computers in the childcare center. I still believe BC did not use these. The computers are behind the kiddie gate and the desks are at the level of young children. I cannot see BC there; isn't he 6'2" or 4"? I mean, if he really wanted to stick out and be remembered, that's where he'd go.

I did have to laugh while I was there. They paged someone to come to the "towel center." I was imagining a couple of CPD's finest down in a big towel room interviewing people.


Up for more torture aye ? I wonder how many people have gone in there looking around to see how many security camera's they have and where they are located - :).

I suspect they wouldn't much like for us to get too descriptive so will only ask if the four in the area are positioned such that they would provide a 360 sweep of the lobby area possibly or are they more likely postioned to cover the main entrance and desk area as primary areas of concern ?

[ncnative]

Did you see any owls at LTF?

[SleuthyGal]

Monday is Nancy's birthday. Great! I'll take care of the silk flower wreath. You guys look out for it by the weekend. I'm slow, but I've done these things before. It won't be huge, just "tasteful". I will probably tie it to a tree or use wire "legs". There's a 40% off coupon for Michael's....good until 8/31. If you want it I can send you the link via PM (don't think I'm allowed to put links on the board).

[SleuthyGal]

G'morning, all!

I have a report back from Lifetime Fitness. I checked out the lobby.

In the spirit of working out in a beautiful gym "NC case research" I'd be willing to go as someone's guest. Just say the word; I'm there!

just sayin'

[Skittles]

Up for more torture aye ? I wonder how many people have gone in there looking around to see how many security camera's they have and where they are located - :).

I suspect they wouldn't much like for us to get too descriptive so will only ask if the four in the area are positioned such that they would provide a 360 sweep of the lobby area possibly or are they more likely postioned to cover the main entrance and desk area as primary areas of concern ?

Given their locations, it would be possible to cover about 75% of the lobby area. The TV/sofa area probably isn't well covered--it's at least 30 feet from the only camera that could see that area, and that particular camera is likely aimed elsewhere.

[Skittles]

Did you see any owls at LTF?No owls, just towels.

[raisincharlie]

Given their locations, it would be possible to cover about 75% of the lobby area. The TV/sofa area probably isn't well covered--it's at least 30 feet from the only camera that could see that area, and that particular camera is likely aimed elsewhere.

So there is not much of a possibility of someone coming in without showing up on one of the camera angles - thats good. If he was there, if LE got there in time - they have a good chance of knowing what he did and if he had anything with him - hopefully LE got there in time to find out one way or the other. Thanks ! :)

[FlowerChild]

BC did not appear to have bruises or wounds on his hands. If Nancy was badly bludgeoned with an object there would be blood, cast-off, tissue, hair and perhaps even teeth wherever she was killed. Beating someone to death is messy. Nancy was a tall, fit woman who had children, I cannot see her NOT fighting her attacker unless she was asleep - which would limit the possible murder scene to a place inside the house she would have been sleeping. If Nancy was awake and dressed then she would have tried to defend herself - head wounds often do not immediately incapacitate the victim - she would have tried to hurt BC or at least moved around and if nothing else, left MORE evidence at the murder scene - evidence luminol would have lit up. There is NO WAY Brad could have cleaned the murder scene AND a vehicle used to transport the body so well as to have left NOTHING behind.

If Nancy was bludgeoned to death she and her clothing would have been bloody and would have clearly shown her position at the time of death (standing or lying down, for instance). If BC killed Nancy in that manner inside their home I think CSU would have easily found the scene because they had seen the body and would know what places would have been possible scenes inside the home. And evidently they did not feel the scene was inside one of the cars because they would have impounded that vehicle - again, luminol would have lit it up even if it was cleaned. The fact that neither vehicle was removed from the residence says pretty clearly that no evidence of anything (disposal OR murder) was found in either vehicle.

I am now most interested in the autopsy - IF it was blunt force trauma and there was not significant forensic evidence found in the home or cars then I have to consider Nancy was likely killed at another location OUTSIDE the home - perhaps the night before or DURING her run. It would take significantly more than laundry detergent to clean up a crime scene to the point where CSU could find NO evidence. I wonder if it's possible Nancy wasn't dumped, but that BC chased her down during her run? He would have known she had no phone and no way to call for help and it eliminates that messy crime scene problem.

To ME, at this point the autopsy will be the key in this, not the SW's.

My Opinion

[CyberPro]

:crazy:CP, according to an article (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/durham/story/1185480.html) in today's N&O, there was a microscopic feather. :crazy:

Oh, Well that makes a LOT more sense... I am beginning to swing to that side of the fence then. See, it would not make any sense at all if a regular owl could attack her and perform all the required feats and escape without being seen, but if the owl in question were microscopic, then it would be much easier for it to get away without detection! Elementary my dear Watson, clap the bracelets on the microscopic owl!

For the record, Owls do sometimes attack people, and the wounds on the victim could have been consistent with an owl attack, however, the attacks are almost always done outside, and I have not heard of a case where an attacking owl cleans up some of the blood pool before leaving.:crazy:

CyberPro

[ncnative]

THANKS SLEUTHY! I have one of those coupons from Sunday's paper, so keep yours for yourself.

Being a coward, Brad would have probably smothered her or done something more "passive" aggressive first. Don't you think? We'll all know one day.

[ncnative]

M. Petersen probably hired an owl on crack to come over and do the job.:shocked2: <<---A microscopic owl on crack. Come to think of it, M.Petersen LOOKS like one.

I'm going to get ready and head for the store to get my supplies for the Nancy Cooper birthday/death remembrance wreath. It should warm Brad's heart that we remember her, since he doesn't. I suppose he's in shock and still grieving and all.

[EntreNous]

:crazy:

Oh, Well that makes a LOT more sense... I am beginning to swing to that side of the fence then. See, it would not make any sense at all if a regular owl could attack her and perform all the required feats and escape without being seen, but if the owl in question were microscopic, then it would be much easier for it to get away without detection! Elementary my dear Watson, clap the bracelets on the microscopic owl!

For the record, Owls do sometimes attack people, and the wounds on the victim could have been consistent with an owl attack, however, the attacks are almost always done outside, and I have not heard of a case where an attacking owl cleans up some of the blood pool before leaving.:crazy:

CyberPro

Fiendish, diabolical owls.

[ncnative]

:crazy:

Oh, Well that makes a LOT more sense... I am beginning to swing to that side of the fence then. See, it would not make any sense at all if a regular owl could attack her and perform all the required feats and escape without being seen, but if the owl in question were microscopic, then it would be much easier for it to get away without detection! Elementary my dear Watson, clap the bracelets on the microscopic owl!



CyberPro
:shocked2: <--microscopic owl :rolling: Ha ha, CyberPro!!:)

[SleuthyGal]

NCNative, I'd like to take pix of the wreath after you get it done (and placed whereever it's going). Let me know when and where, exactly, and I'll do a hi-res picture and make it available to everyone on the board.

[FlowerChild]

Perhaps we could redirect the Peterson case info to the OT Chit Chat area, since it has nothing to do with Nancy's case and it's hard enough to keep track of the info without trying to figure out what an Owl (microsopic or traditional) has to do with Nancy's case. Some people only have time to check in here a couple of times a day and it does get confusing. Since we have a forum perhaps a "memorials" thread and a "comparisons with other cases thread" might be helpful so we can keep the main "Nancy" case thread for info about BC and Nancy and the developments in the case.

My Opinion

[SleuthyGal]

Perhaps we could redirect the Peterson case info to the OT Chit Chat area, since it has nothing to do with Nancy's case

Yes, please.

[Star12]

Yes, please.

I'd keep the memorial info here though, no sense another thread for such a short-lived topic.

[raisincharlie]

<snip>

To ME, at this point the autopsy will be the key in this, not the SW's.

My Opinion

I see the autopsy as an essential piece but not necessarily the key to the case. The search warrants are also essential, and it seems from watching the videos and reviewing the photos - a significant number of items were removed from the residence. Can't see things being drug out in evidence bags if it apparently has no relevance. As to the cars, if evidence was found and it was of sufficient quantity to provide answers, it may not have been necessary to take the cars downtown. The 325 was in the garage - luminol could well have been performed on the spot. LE arrived at the house in the dark plus they had the distinct advantage of having already been in the home within 8 hours of Nancy having been reported as leaving it. There is no telling what was observed at that time, but no doubt observations were made. All elements are necessary.

For LE to serve a warrant on Cisco systems - it seems pretty obvious to me that some evidence was found in the home that opened this possibility.

[SleuthyGal]

I agree with Bubba. Each link in the chain is necessary to paint an entire picture of guilt.

[lunarmodule]

It seems to me that if they found significant blood at the house or in the car, that BC would already be in custody. I lean towards suffocation/strangulation. If she was "bludgeoned" to cause death by blunt force trama as I read somewhere, it is hard to believe there wasn't blood although I understand it's possible.

[FlowerChild]

I see the autopsy as an essential piece but not necessarily the key to the case. The search warrants are also essential, and it seems from watching the videos and reviewing the photos - a significant number of items were removed from the residence. Can't see things being drug out in evidence bags if it apparently has no relevance. As to the cars, if evidence was found and it was of sufficient quantity to provide answers, it may not have been necessary to take the cars downtown. The 325 was in the garage - luminol could well have been performed on the spot. LE arrived at the house in the dark plus they had the distinct advantage of having already been in the home within 8 hours of Nancy having been reported as leaving it. There is no telling what was observed at that time, but no doubt observations were made. All elements are necessary.

For LE to serve a warrant on Cisco systems - it seems pretty obvious to me that some evidence was found in the home that opened this possibility.

The fact that BC worked there and could have planned from there, or HIRED someone to kill Nancy from there is all LE needs for a SW. I think spouse's place of work is almost a given in any murder case anyway. They have to rule out (or in) the spouse first - I doubt it has anything to do with the Home SW. Plus the friends allegations that BC somehow was listening to, controlling or interfering with Nancy's phone calls or "spying" on her and their allegations of BC's abuse of Nancy and control of Nancy would have a basis at his work. Not to mention looking for evidence that BC was having a current affair and would have wanted Nancy gone for that reason...also at work. My suspicion is that the LAST SW was for a possible GF's home (or Scott's home if he was meeting her there).

My Opinion

[Skittles]

On the WRAL site, this week's "Ask Anything" will be about Amanda Lamb. You can post questions for Amanda, and her answers will be posted on 9/2. You have to get an id on the site to submit a question.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/page/2793758/?navkeyword=ask+anything

[chauncey7381]

To ME, at this point the autopsy will be the key in this, not the SW's.



Alert! Flowerchild! Yes, we are on the same page.

I don't think there was need for bleach for any bloodstains.

I also feel there is a slim chance she passed before 6:15. Accidental death.

I am leaning quite far (very) to after 7:00---simply because CPD is out scouting the neighborhood, streets, passing out flyers etc., and if TOD is before 6:15--then and THEN, Mr. Cooper has some major explaining to do.

The news media has not said one verb about blood, beating, bludegeoning, anywhere. I think Mrs. Cooper died as a result of asphyxiation.

Sending you a PM.

[jumpstreet]

I am leaning quite far (very) to after 7:00---simply because CPD is out scouting the neighborhood, streets, passing out flyers etc., and if TOD is before 6:15--then and THEN, Mr. Cooper has some major explaining to do.


Good points. If TOD is after 7:00 as you suspect, would you think it's a Theory A (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171) scenario, or a Theory B/C (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171) scenario, or something else entirely?

[chauncey7381]

It could be any of those three options. If TOD indeed is confirmed after 7:00 a.m., B&C.

I don't know how A scenario could work with Mr. Cooper being home with the kids and I have no idea how to hire a hitman. He has cooperated with the police, and given LE a timeline.

Speculatively, I'm certain I read somewhere in the affidavits that Mrs. Cooper was not feeling well.,we don't know to what extent. I know that I have ran when I was feeling SO-SO and I felt better afterwards. She could have just passed out, maybe she felt something coming on and needed to get in some shade....

She could have ran over to those new homes under construction and well you know...ran into someone who wasn't very nice. Construction workers do work on the weekend.

We could speculate 24/7.

The in laws are pushing for a psych test in Sept, they must not think he's going to be charged? If they are so sure he's the culprit then why demand a psych test near the end of September.

[wirehair]

LTF is having an open house this weekend

[jumpstreet]

The in laws are pushing for a psych test in Sept, they must not think he's going to be charged? If they are so sure he's the culprit then why demand a psych test near the end of September.

Perhaps it's a "contingency" plan, in case he doesn't get charged. I suspect the inlaws' priority is on the custody, and things "within their control" along that line (independent of the criminal investigation).

The inlaws may have their opinions, but for all we know, they themselves don't actually suspect BC, and yet they still don't want him to have custody (perhaps they don't think he's fit mentally, nor that it would be consistent with Nancy's wishes, even if they don't think he did it), hence the push for the exam.

It will be interesting to see how things transpire regardless. Of course, if he is charged much will be moot, but if not, then the psych test results (if we are privy), and the ultimate custody decision (in Oct) will be very interesting. Normally, I would think if he isn't charged, and passes the psych test (assuming the judge even orders one, which isn't guarantee anyway), then a judge would be hard pressed not to return custody.

[shack]

I see the autopsy as an essential piece but not necessarily the key to the case. The search warrants are also essential, and it seems from watching the videos and reviewing the photos - a significant number of items were removed from the residence. Can't see things being drug out in evidence bags if it apparently has no relevance. As to the cars, if evidence was found and it was of sufficient quantity to provide answers, it may not have been necessary to take the cars downtown. The 325 was in the garage - luminol could well have been performed on the spot. LE arrived at the house in the dark plus they had the distinct advantage of having already been in the home within 8 hours of Nancy having been reported as leaving it. There is no telling what was observed at that time, but no doubt observations were made. All elements are necessary.

For LE to serve a warrant on Cisco systems - it seems pretty obvious to me that some evidence was found in the home that opened this possibility.


Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?

[Anderson]

Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?

Hi Shack,

Welcome. I believe that RC would agree that the autopsy report will be helpful, but he is suggesting that we may learn more from the SWs. He will correct me if I am wrong.

We already know that the murder was not random, so it is unlikely that it was a stranger. Do you have another theory?

[ncnative]

Nancy would not have needed shade at that time of early morning. Where her body was found is way, way, way out from anywhere she'd run here. If she had to run on Holly Springs roadside to get to where she was dumped, she'd likely have a sprained ankle at the least. That roadside is terrible for even a walker. Try it out.

I will never feel "ashamed" for what I already know about Brad Cooper. Never. His daughters will someday, regardless of whether he killed his wife, their mother.

[SleuthyGal]

Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?

Welcome Shack. The autopsy report will of course be important but it might not point to "who" did the crime. Unless the perp left his DNA on the victim or under her nails or somewhere then it won't establish guilt AS MUCH AS, say, if there were her DNA in the trunk of his car or blood somewhere in the house...something that ties the victim to the perp directly. Of course how NC was dressed when found is one thing to note, as well as where she was found. The chief of police said, twice, that based on what they've determined so far, this crime is NOT random and the community is safe. They haven't updated that statement to alert the community that a "random murderer/rapist is roaming the 'hood." They chose their words very carefully. They did it on two separate occasions. That tells me they strongly believe Nancy knew her murderer.

And then there are the things that can tie a perp to the crime...alibi or lack thereof, sightings, lies/inconsistencies in stories, etc, etc.

[jumpstreet]

Maybe I missed it (apologies if so), but normally is the ME's report and autopsy also entered into public record? I know we've (officially) heard from the ME that the report wasn't yet finished (in response to the early subpeona from BC in the custody case), but when it is finished, will it (normally) be made available (unless it is ordered by the court to be sealed)?

If it is normally made available, then do we know if the court has in fact ordered this one sealed or not? [ and if so, for how long, etc ]

[ Seems like in the Chapel Hill case, it was a big deal when that ME report was made available (to the public), and seems like the ME was previously under orders to keep that one sealed initially...but eventually the judge allowed it to be unsealed (perhaps also after some pressure from the media IIRC). This leads me to believe that the default is for these to be public-record. As far as we know, in the BC case, are we still on that path? ]

[SleuthyGal]

Yes it will be part of the public record unless it is sealed for a period of time (and I expect that will probably happen). Nothing has been said about the autopsy report status yet, other than "not ready yet."

[ncnative]

Well, *I'm* ready. I'm ready to have it all come out and solved, like everyone. I just wanted to say that, ha ha.

Sleuthy, I've almost finished the wreath. I'll let you know tomorrow. I'm going to put it out when it's dark outside, cause I'm askeered!

[SleuthyGal]

wow NC, you work fast! Can't wait to see it!

[FlowerChild]

Perhaps it's a "contingency" plan, in case he doesn't get charged. I suspect the inlaws' priority is on the custody, and things "within their control" along that line (independent of the criminal investigation).

The inlaws may have their opinions, but for all we know, they themselves don't actually suspect BC, and yet they still don't want him to have custody (perhaps they don't think he's fit mentally, nor that it would be consistent with Nancy's wishes, even if they don't think he did it), hence the push for the exam.

It will be interesting to see how things transpire regardless. Of course, if he is charged much will be moot, but if not, then the psych test results (if we are privy), and the ultimate custody decision (in Oct) will be very interesting. Normally, I would think if he isn't charged, and passes the psych test (assuming the judge even orders one, which isn't guarantee anyway), then a judge would be hard pressed not to return custody.
IF Brad is NOT charged in Nancy's murder then IF he wants his daughters back, he WILL get them. He is their bio father, whether Nancy's family likes it or not, those children are Brad's. And I do NOT believe a judge is going at ask a BIO father to undergo a Psych exam to have his daughters returned to him - he ALLOWED Nancy's family to take the children (for whatever reason) but legally speaking, Brad is still the custodial parent. The GP's just got him to agree they could have TEMPORARY custody of the girls until the murder investigation was completed.

Lot of "IFS" here. Brad must be cleared, and he must WANT his daughters - which is going to require a HUGE lifestyle change for him AND for the girls too. Full-time Day-Care or a nanny and if no full-time nanny, there will be no weekday activities or dance lessons (because Brad will have to work). No more Ironman triathalons, no more extended trips away from home (if any overnight trips at all) and Brad will have to hire a housekeeper or learn to cook, clean and do laundry. And ALL of them will need counseling - together and separately. Becoming an instant single parent in a place where you have no family and at this point, very little community support will be tough for ALL of them - Brad may decide the girls are better off in Canada - not likely - but it is a possibility.

I predict a "non-suspect" Brad will move - perhaps just to a different area or neighborhood, but maybe back to Canada. I don't think BC will stay in his current home if he is cleared, not with many of the neighbors openly hostile. And I have to agree with one point, IF Brad is NOT a suspect and is cleared if I were him I would NOT send my daughters to a school or day care where ANY of the children of friends of Nancy might attend. The affidavits made it clear their opinions of Brad and THAT could eventually harm the ONLY 100% innocents in all of this, the daughters. It is NOT right for ANY adult to make those girls pay in any way for something they didn't choose and cannot change - they are his daughters and they cannot be anything else.

My Opinion

[Star12]

It could be any of those three options. If TOD indeed is confirmed after 7:00 a.m., B&C.

I don't know how A scenario could work with Mr. Cooper being home with the kids and I have no idea how to hire a hitman. He has cooperated with the police, and given LE a timeline.

Speculatively, I'm certain I read somewhere in the affidavits that Mrs. Cooper was not feeling well.,we don't know to what extent. I know that I have ran when I was feeling SO-SO and I felt better afterwards. She could have just passed out, maybe she felt something coming on and needed to get in some shade....

She could have ran over to those new homes under construction and well you know...ran into someone who wasn't very nice. Construction workers do work on the weekend.

We could speculate 24/7.

The in laws are pushing for a psych test in Sept, they must not think he's going to be charged? If they are so sure he's the culprit then why demand a psych test near the end of September.

Nancy had Crohn's disease, and had been feeling the effects Friday night, not Saturday morning. And if she hadn't felt well, her typical running paths are very well shaded.

And why would she want to run in a construction site? She had beautiful running paths much more convenient to her. And BC outlined in his affidavit pretty much where she typically ran.

The inlaws are not pushing for a psychiatric evaluation in September. Their attorneys have requested a hearing date of September 22 on their previous motion for the psych eval in the custody case. It has nothing to do with whether they think he will be charged or not. The evaluation is for his emotional and mental fitness as a parent. They have asked for a choice of two specific doctors, if available, to do the testing. The testing can take a while, and then it takes more time for the results of the tests to be evaluated, before they can be presented to the court. IMHO, I would not be surprised if this action were to cause a further delay in the October 13 custody hearing date. There's only about 2-1/2 weeks between the motion hearing and the custody hearing.

[Star12]

Welcome Shack. The autopsy report will of course be important but it might not point to "who" did the crime. Unless the perp left his DNA on the victim or under her nails or somewhere then it won't establish guilt AS MUCH AS, say, if there were her DNA in the trunk of his car or blood somewhere in the house...something that ties the victim to the perp directly. Of course how NC was dressed when found is one thing to note, as well as where she was found. The chief of police said, twice, that based on what they've determined so far, this crime is NOT random and the community is safe. They haven't updated that statement to alert the community that a "random murderer/rapist is roaming the 'hood." They chose their words very carefully. They did it on two separate occasions. That tells me they strongly believe Nancy knew her murderer.

And then there are the things that can tie a perp to the crime...alibi or lack thereof, sightings, lies/inconsistencies in stories, etc, etc.

And then, of course, if there is nobody's else's DNA to be found...

(bolding is mine)

[jumpstreet]

The inlaws are not pushing for a psychiatric evaluation in September. Their attorneys have requested a hearing date of September 22 on their previous motion for the psych eval in the custody case. ...IMHO, I would not be surprised if this action were to cause a further delay in the October 13 custody hearing date. There's only about 2-1/2 weeks between the motion hearing and the custody hearing.

That's assuming the judge even grants the motion. Surely the plaintiffs have to present some compelling evidence (besides all the hearsay about suicide attempts) in order for a judge to order someone to submit to a probe. In the absence of any compelling evidence (which they may have - who knows), I would assume a judge would promptly deny this request.

[ Unless it is common in custody cases for any parties seeking custody to be ordered for psych probe upon request. If that's the case, then it may as well be "routine" for the court to order such a probe just as a prerequisite to requesting custody (out of an abundance of caution :) ) ]

My guess is it's not routine, and unless the plantiffs present something fairly compelling that indicates he isn't fit/stable (more than just the hearsay in those affidavits), he won't have to take the test.

[ Side bar: If a probe is ordered, wonder who has to pony up for it... ]

[chauncey7381]

Raisin, Flowerchild, Jumpst, and NCNative....

RC/FLowerchild, CISCO office---my belief is LE is checking out his timeline and from the affidavits regarding the phone disconnects etc., whats on the harddrive at work etc.

Jmpst, it's my understanding the GPs and Mr. Cooper settled this without an actual hearing. They negotiated custody, I personally was hoping the judge would let him keep his children, yet, in the same time it is likely best that they stay in a more stable environment away from public scrutiny here. If Mr. Cooper is not charged is cleared before October, I really don't see how the GPs have any right to request a psych evaluation. They might be jeopardizing their own future visitations if they keep this up. I don't see how a judge could rule in favor of the GPs if Mr. Cooper is cleared of any wrongdoing.

The in-laws clearly think he's mentally unstable, I also firmly believe they think he's responsible for her death. Sometimes, I think they are hoping he'll confess.

NCNative---I have not been to the site she was found, it does look off the beaten path from the pics which were posted. I know I would never run there alone. I usually run over at Regency/Koka (alone), Lake Crabtree and on Raleigh Greenway Trails with a friend. I was just thinking that because she wasn't feeling well the night before, that perhaps she got flushed/hot, clammy, nauseated.

[FlowerChild]

I know someone who has Crohn's and it isn't so much a "I feel bad and need to lie down" as it is, I feel bad and I need to find a bathroom RIGHT NOW". She (my friend) will NOT go anywhere new that she doesn't KNOW has a close bathroom. If her flare is bad enough, she must stay home, the problems are uncontrollable and sudden - she said she cannot imagine being out running when you were having a "flare" because activity can make it worse, the "urgency" to find a bathroom, cramps, pain etc. She also finds it interesting that Nancy might have been drinking the night before WHILE supposedly have a flare - it's kinda a #1 no-no with Crohn's as it can really irritate and inflame the colon and stomach more if you drink - but especially if you do so when you are already experiencing problems.

Here is some "official" info on symptoms.

Crohn's disease can cause a variety of symptoms of gastrointestinal distress. The three classic (though not specific) symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease are:

Persistent or recurrent diarrhea (possibly with blood, mucus)
Abdominal pain
Fever

A number of signs and symptoms that do not involve the gastrointestinal tract can occur with Crohn's disease

Reddening and inflammation of the eye (iritis)
Joint pain (usually in the large joints of the knees, ankles, elbows, wrists, and shoulders), which sometimes migrates from one joint to another (migrating arthralgia)
Skin lesions, including tender red nodules on the shins or calves (erythema nodosum)
Sores inside the mouth (aphthous ulcers)

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/crohnsdisease/cd_symptoms.html

[maconrich]

It is NOT right for ANY adult to make those girls pay in any way for something they didn't choose and cannot change - they are his daughters and they cannot be anything else.

My Opinion

I agree with the above 100%. Too bad BC didn't think of that before he killed the mother of his children -- naturally IF he did it that is.

[jumpstreet]

Jmpst, it's my understanding the GPs and Mr. Cooper settled this without an actual hearing. They negotiated custody, I personally was hoping the judge would let him keep his children, yet, in the same time it is likely best that they stay in a more stable environment away from public scrutiny here. If Mr. Cooper is not charged is cleared before October, I really don't see how the GPs have any right to request a psych evaluation. They might be jeopardizing their own future visitations if they keep this up. I don't see how a judge could rule in favor of the GPs if Mr. Cooper is cleared of any wrongdoing.

The in-laws clearly think he's mentally unstable, I also firmly believe they think he's responsible for her death. Sometimes, I think they are hoping he'll confess.


Thanks. They've only temporarily settled it (until mid-October or so - 75 days from when the initial hearing was schedule to be). Meanwhile, the GP's have now re-requested the judge to officially rule on their psych evaluation request, and that hearing (just the psych evaluation part) is set for late September.

Agree he could have conceded the temporary custody for now (on the basis that it's probably temporary best). [ Though some of the terms, especially the visitation terms, strike me as somewhat one-sided, so not sure I totally buy that it was a "gift" (vs the plaintiffs having some real leverage ]

The mere fact that the original ex-parte hearing resulted in him (temporarily) losing custody immediately (BIO father not named as a suspect or POI!), makes me think there is some legitimate leverage somewhere for the plaintiffs (perhaps independent of the criminal investigation).

Either way though, as you say, unless the plaintiffs can offer this legitimate basis for the evaluation, I can't imagine it being granted.

[ and again, it's all moot if he's arrested... FWIW, that 75-day timeframe struck me as somewhat odd (like 60 days+2 weeks)... wonder which side suggested that specific time period... hmmm... ]

[momto3kids]

The GP's had something to present to the judge for the Ex Parte in order to do it so swift...
There is absolutely no way any family comes in from another country and says I think my son in law is unstable, I need my grandkids, not from a bio parent and gets it granted immediately.

IF you recall the Ex Parte was signed before the SW was even completed!

Believe me, it was because the LE had enough on BC by the time they left BC's home Saturday the 12th. All they wanted was to find NC so they could pursue the Ex Parte ASAP.

Now it is a matter of getting DNA and TOD to take mr BC to :behindbar

[carolinalady]

MT3K, since you seem to have access to lots of tidbits of info, have you heard anything about what articles were found in the woods? IIRC, there were early reports that some item(s) of clothing was/were found during the search.

[Star12]

[ Unless it is common in custody cases for any parties seeking custody to be ordered for psych probe upon request. If that's the case, then it may as well be "routine" for the court to order such a probe just as a prerequisite to requesting custody (out of an abundance of caution ) ]

It is fairly routine, or perhaps I should say, not uncommon. IMO, the judge will likely grant the request. It's a reasonable request, and they have every right to ask for an eval. And, again, it has nothing to do with the criminal investigation, The children's mother is dead. It is in the best interests of the children to have a stable environment in which to grown and be nurtured. Whether Brad Cooper committed a crime or not, he definitely is under an amazing amount of ongoing stress, and likely will be for a while. The children are removed from it all for the time being.

Children are little social people, and NEED to be around other little people, as well as adults, in order to become socialized and grow emotionally If you think about the environment they would be in here, it just would not be good for them.

And no, the judge had nothing to do with this. It was settled amongst the parties. Brad agreed. All the judge did was sign the order to make it binding.

The guiding star is always for the best interests of the children.

[EntreNous]

IF Brad is NOT charged in Nancy's murder then IF he wants his daughters back, he WILL get them. He is their bio father, whether Nancy's family likes it or not, those children are Brad's. And I do NOT believe a judge is going at ask a BIO father to undergo a Psych exam to have his daughters returned to him - he ALLOWED Nancy's family to take the children (for whatever reason) but legally speaking, Brad is still the custodial parent. The GP's just got him to agree they could have TEMPORARY custody of the girls until the murder investigation was completed.

Lot of "IFS" here. Brad must be cleared, and he must WANT his daughters - which is going to require a HUGE lifestyle change for him AND for the girls too. Full-time Day-Care or a nanny and if no full-time nanny, there will be no weekday activities or dance lessons (because Brad will have to work). No more Ironman triathalons, no more extended trips away from home (if any overnight trips at all) and Brad will have to hire a housekeeper or learn to cook, clean and do laundry. And ALL of them will need counseling - together and separately. Becoming an instant single parent in a place where you have no family and at this point, very little community support will be tough for ALL of them - Brad may decide the girls are better off in Canada - not likely - but it is a possibility.

I predict a "non-suspect" Brad will move - perhaps just to a different area or neighborhood, but maybe back to Canada. I don't think BC will stay in his current home if he is cleared, not with many of the neighbors openly hostile. And I have to agree with one point, IF Brad is NOT a suspect and is cleared if I were him I would NOT send my daughters to a school or day care where ANY of the children of friends of Nancy might attend. The affidavits made it clear their opinions of Brad and THAT could eventually harm the ONLY 100% innocents in all of this, the daughters. It is NOT right for ANY adult to make those girls pay in any way for something they didn't choose and cannot change - they are his daughters and they cannot be anything else.

My Opinion

See, I just have to disagree with this. BC's wife died under suspicious circumstances. He could be the next Jason Young. This could drag out for years. He's suicidal, he's not suicidal, he's a narcissist, he's not a narcissist, he can be volatile, explosive, etc. or not. Just depends on who you talk to. If he did not do this, it just plain sucks that he's having to go through all this but I'm sorry, go through it he must for the sake of those girls.

Sperm donor does not equal loving, attentive, responsible parent. Yes, BC seems to have some issues that have been brought light, coincidentally his wife just happened to be murdered just prior to that. Of course he should be evaluated before he can get the girls back. For the judge to ignore these very extraordinary circumstances and not made sufficient provisions for Bella & Katie's welfare, i.e. (a psych consult), would be negligent.

IMO

[chauncey7381]

Thanks for the clarification Star. Does Mr. Cooper have to submit to a the test? Or, is this where the plaintiffs have to provide good reason/evidence to the judge why Mr. Cooper should and the judge says Yea or Nay?

Yes, Lochmere, Regency, and the Bluffs are very nice, I used to work near there.

[momto3kids]

MT3K, since you seem to have access to lots of tidbits of info, have you heard anything about what articles were found in the woods? IIRC, there were early reports that some item(s) of clothing was/were found during the search.

BC himself said he had located a shovel. My understanding is the LE determined it was a construction shovel left behind.

[jumpstreet]

Thanks for the clarification Star. Does Mr. Cooper have to submit to a the test? Or, is this where the plaintiffs have to provide good reason/evidence to the judge why Mr. Cooper should and the judge says Yea or Nay?


I'll defer to Star, but surely the plantiff's have to at least provide some compelling reason (maybe as Star asserts, it is not uncommon for the bar to be fairly low with the amount of compelling reason needed, when children are involved).

I still wonder who (typically) covers the tab ($) if it's ordered....(and yes, I realize, where the children are involved this is the least of the worries, but I'm just curious. Maybe it's a case-by-case decision (on who foots the bill...) In this case, I would assume it would be the GP side though (again, if it's ordered).

[carolinalady]

The GP's had something to present to the judge for the Ex Parte in order to do it so swift...
There is absolutely no way any family comes in from another country and says I think my son in law is unstable, I need my grandkids, not from a bio parent and gets it granted immediately.

IF you recall the Ex Parte was signed before the SW was even completed!

Believe me, it was because the LE had enough on BC by the time they left BC's home Saturday the 12th. All they wanted was to find NC so they could pursue the Ex Parte ASAP.

Now it is a matter of getting DNA and TOD to take mr BC to :behindbar

I really do wonder what was presented at that hearing. Of course, we know the plaintiffs and LE testified. The judge's findings of fact section is very interesting to me. Particularly interesting to me is Finding of Fact #8 (BC attempted suicide as a teenager & threat in winter 2008). Was it a finding of fact b/c the plaintiffs testified it was so or did they have some documentation presented?

With that goes Finding of Fact #15 that BC has a history of emotional instability.

I'm just curious as to how something becomes a finding of fact. I know in the Rentz's statement, there's the statement "upon information and belief" and just what it takes for that to become a finding of fact.

[SleuthyGal]

Mom, why do you think he was intent on getting folks to concentrate on that shovel? Trying to raise a(nother) smoke screen?

[carolinalady]

BC himself said he had located a shovel. My understanding is the LE determined it was a construction shovel left behind.

No, I was referring to articles of clothing, not the shovel. I'll have to see if I can locate the article again.

[Star12]

Thanks for the clarification Star. Does Mr. Cooper have to submit to a the test? Or, is this where the plaintiffs have to provide good reason/evidence to the judge why Mr. Cooper should and the judge says Yea or Nay?

Yes, Lochmere, Regency, and the Bluffs are very nice, I used to work near there.

The hearing on the motion is set to be argued by both attorneys in front of the judge on September 22. IMO it will be granted.

You can play "what if" with this. What if there is some sort of a problem, and harm should come to the children? Is it not better to err on the side of caution as far as the children are concerned?

Therefore, why should the judge say Nay?

So, if the judge orders the eval be done, Mr. Cooper will have to comply, or face contempt of court.

Likely the attorney will find out who can perform the eval, the order will be faxed to the doctor, and they will set up the times for the appointments.

[jumpstreet]

Mom, why do you think he was intent on getting folks to concentrate on that shovel? Trying to raise a(nother) smoke screen?

Pointing out the shovel would make sense perhaps if one knew BFT would ultimately be determined COD. [ The BFT is a reference to Mom's earlier relay from the kid (which was heresay of course too... but just sayin' ]

[jumpstreet]

I'm just curious as to how something becomes a finding of fact. I know in the Rentz's statement, there's the statement "upon information and belief" and just what it takes for that to become a finding of fact.


Agree. I'd be somewhat disappointed in "the system" if relay of hearsay from the GP's became "finding of facts" without more evidence. OTOH, just how does the assertion that he attempted suicide become a "finding of fact" short of someone being an eyewitness to it I wonder.

BC flatly denies this one in his affidavit, so something's got to give. Either the court (in the ex-parte) made a mistake with it's "findings of facts"... or BC's affidavit isn't accurate w.r.t. to this line-item.

[momto3kids]

I really do wonder what was presented at that hearing. Of course, we know the plaintiffs and LE testified. The judge's findings of fact section is very interesting to me. Particularly interesting to me is Finding of Fact #8 (BC attempted suicide as a teenager & threat in winter 2008). Was it a finding of fact b/c the plaintiffs testified it was so or did they have some documentation presented?

With that goes Finding of Fact #15 that BC has a history of emotional instability.

I'm just curious as to how something becomes a finding of fact. I know in the Rentz's statement, there's the statement "upon information and belief" and just what it takes for that to become a finding of fact.

CL....all I will and can say is when the LE left BC's home on the 12th they knew they had to find NC and it didn't look good how they would find her. They knew what they were dealing with. This is how the gp's moved in so quick while the SW was still under way.

[carolinalady]

No, I was referring to articles of clothing, not the shovel. I'll have to see if I can locate the article again.

MT3Ks, it was actually a post you brought from somewhere else:

Originally Posted by momto3kids
I found this posted on the City Data forum, Cary, NC. Page 41, post # 408

I have no idea who this is, but they were a member before the NC case so they didn't join just to state this. Is this why she was partially clothed?


07-26-2008, 07:00 PM
seajoy88

Member


I agree that even though they say it was not a random killing, the fact that no one has been arrested is a little unnerving.

A friend of mine that lives in the Lochmere area reported information to a detective the day Nancy went missing. While my friend was on her jog that day, she saw a woman by Nancy's description around 8am. She described an item of clothing this woman was wearing that was of interest to the detective. Whether this is a coincidence or not, an item of clothing as my friend described was found in the woods. It was not an item of clothing that was known to the public. I have no idea why the police would not release that information, but maybe it was a false lead. Either way, it's just enough information to make my friend stop running alone even if the police say they don't believe the murder was random.

[momto3kids]

No, I was referring to articles of clothing, not the shovel. I'll have to see if I can locate the article again.

OH...that was on City-Data I believe. It was an item a jogger/walker had found and I think notified the LE about it.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm REALLY curious what they may have found inside the house. We saw pics of them examining the SUV. And of course they took stuff out in brown bags. I wanna know what they saw in the house itself!

[carolinalady]

CL....all I will and can say is when the LE left BC's home on the 12th they knew they had to find NC and it didn't look good how they would find her. They knew what they were dealing with. This is how the gp's moved in so quick while the SW was still under way.

Are you saying that they found something incriminating during their look around the house? B/C they wouldn't have to wait find NC's body to get a SW (ex. Laci Peterson case) if they saw something so apparently criminal on 7/12.

[carolinalady]

OH...that was on City-Data I believe. It was an item a jogger/walker had found and I think notified the LE about it.

Have you heard anything else about it? Maybe it was a non-issue?

[carolinalady]

I'm REALLY curious what they may have found inside the house. We saw pics of them examining the SUV. And of course they took stuff out in brown bags. I wanna know what they saw in the house itself!

I'm curious, too. We don't know if there was 1 item per bag or were there multiple little bags in each bag.

I'll hand it to CPD, they have been so tight-lipped about this case it has left all of us guessing.

[momto3kids]

MT3Ks, it was actually a post you brought from somewhere else:

I didn't know if I had or hadn't, but I knew if was from another website and someone else had posted it. Yes City-Data.

[momto3kids]

Are you saying that they found something incriminating during their look around the house? B/C they wouldn't have to wait find NC's body to get a SW (ex. Laci Peterson case) if they saw something so apparently criminal on 7/12.

Highly suspicious during the 12th...

No, I am saying once NC body was found and ID'd they could go for the Ex Parte immediately without waiting for the results of the search that was under way.

Lets remember BC had plenty of time to clean before they arrived.

[maconrich]

I didn't know if I had or hadn't, but I knew if was from another website and someone else had posted it. Yes City-Data.
the chief mentioned on one of the pc's I re-watched today that a man's shoe was found that had been there a long time. (someone from the press specifically asked about the shoe that had been found and that was her answer).

the shovel creeps me out but more the vivid image of him coming out in the rain from the woods carrying it than him finding it :eek:

[momto3kids]

I'm REALLY curious what they may have found inside the house. We saw pics of them examining the SUV. And of course they took stuff out in brown bags. I wanna know what they saw in the house itself!

I have been looking at picture #1 on WRAL when they took 3 bags out...
I bag IMO is a pillow.
The long box end type bag is too light for a vacuum and the guy carrying it doesn't have his hand grasping it. It is too long for a vacuum also. It is going to be a custom window valance where he used the cord to strangle her or the BMW trunk floor mat. If BC didn't disposed of the trunk mat it will be in that bag or one like it.

[shack]

Hi Shack,

Welcome. I believe that RC would agree that the autopsy report will be helpful, but he is suggesting that we may learn more from the SWs. He will correct me if I am wrong.

We already know that the murder was not random, so it is unlikely that it was a stranger. Do you have another theory?


Might I ask how you know the murder wasn't random?

[fran]

I'm REALLY curious what they may have found inside the house. We saw pics of them examining the SUV. And of course they took stuff out in brown bags. I wanna know what they saw in the house itself!

I don't know exactly what they found, but IMO, they found SOMETHING! ;)

FWIW, I believe one of them holds the vacuum. The other more bulky, I don't know. :confused:

JMHO
fran


Authorities carry brown packages from the home of Nancy and Brad Cooper on the morning of July 16, 2008.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/image/3219711/?img_list=3219711%2C3214938%2C3208471%2C3214948&ref_id=3214017

[SleuthyGal]

I have been looking at picture #1 on WRAL when they took 3 bags out...
I bag IMO is a pillow.
The long box end type bag is too light for a vacuum and the guy carrying it doesn't have his hand grasping it. It is too long for a vacuum also. It is going to be a custom window valance where he used the cord to strangle her or the BMW trunk floor mat. If BC didn't disposed of the trunk mat it will be in that bag or one like it.

Sounds reasonable. There was the one heavyset cop carrying 3 smaller brown bags ... he was coming from around the side of the house towards the front. Wonder if he took stuff from the back/outside?

[momto3kids]

the chief mentioned on one of the pc's I re-watched today that a man's shoe was found that had been there a long time. (someone from the press specifically asked about the shoe that had been found and that was her answer).

the shovel creeps me out but more the vivid image of him coming out in the rain from the woods carrying it than him finding it :eek:

NO...LOL....he located it and got the LE to come research it. He didn't come out of the woods with it in his hand.

Everyone would have :eye::eye: and not had a conversation with him..

[maconrich]

I have been looking at picture #1 on WRAL when they took 3 bags out...
I bag IMO is a pillow.
The long box end type bag is too light for a vacuum and the guy carrying it doesn't have his hand grasping it. It is too long for a vacuum also. It is going to be a custom window valance where he used the cord to strangle her or the BMW trunk floor mat. If BC didn't disposed of the trunk mat it will be in that bag or one like it.

Using a cord like that makes it sound less like a heat of the moment / rage scenario. :( The floor mat makes sense... It will be interesting to find out the details. Have to wonder if someone will be arrested before the sw's are made public...

[fran]

I have been looking at picture #1 on WRAL when they took 3 bags out...
I bag IMO is a pillow.
The long box end type bag is too light for a vacuum and the guy carrying it doesn't have his hand grasping it. It is too long for a vacuum also. It is going to be a custom window valance where he used the cord to strangle her or the BMW trunk floor mat. If BC didn't disposed of the trunk mat it will be in that bag or one like it.

LOL, now I just said I thought it was a vacuum. You don't think so?
I can see something at the bottom and it kinda' looked like the bottom of a vacuum.

Nevermind. :confused:

I'm confused,
fran

[EntreNous]

Might I ask how you know the murder wasn't random?

Chief Bazemore stated in pressers that it was an isolated event.

[jumpstreet]

Might I ask how you know the murder wasn't random?

I assume the only solid basis for this would be LE's statement (at an early presser) that (at that time), they believed it to be an isolated event. Since then they've certainly not said anything to the contrary (though to my knowledge, they haven't explicitly reiterated this point either, though they have emphasized that "Cary is safe", etc)

Other than this, I'm not aware of anything firm that would directly refute a random crime theory. [ and it's still on the Theories (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171)table of course... :) as Theory C]

[maconrich]

NO...LOL....he located it and got the LE to come research it. He didn't come out of the woods with it in his hand.

Everyone would have :eye::eye: and not had a conversation with him..

LMFAO!!! Thank You for clarifying!!! That image has been burned into my brain all this time and seriously added to some terrible nightmares. Phew :bang:

[Star12]

Agree. I'd be somewhat disappointed in "the system" if relay of hearsay from the GP's became "finding of facts" without more evidence. OTOH, just how does the assertion that he attempted suicide become a "finding of fact" short of someone being an eyewitness to it I wonder.

BC flatly denies this one in his affidavit, so something's got to give. Either the court (in the ex-parte) made a mistake with it's "findings of facts"... or BC's affidavit isn't accurate w.r.t. to this line-item.

"he said, she said...", so hence the pyschiatric evaluation. Then we will find out if there are any suicidal tendancies.

I think, IMHO, that the judge in the ex parte was looking out for the best interests of the children. If something is alleged that may put the children in harm's way, the judge needs to protect the children.

[momto3kids]

I don't know exactly what they found, but IMO, they found SOMETHING! ;)

FWIW, I believe one of them holds the vacuum. The other more bulky, I don't know. :confused:

JMHO
fran


Authorities carry brown packages from the home of Nancy and Brad Cooper on the morning of July 16, 2008.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/image/3219711/?img_list=3219711%2C3214938%2C3208471%2C3214948&ref_id=3214017

This is the picture I was looking at. The guy carrying the bag has no grasp on it while he carrys it out. I have always had to grasp one to lift up. It is too long also IMO I can be totally wrong.

Also with the vacuum they could take the bag or canister to get their evidence.

[fran]

Just a thought, but wasn't the alleged time that Brad was to have allegedly threatened suicide at Xmas time? Weren't they staying with Nancy's parents at that time?

Perhaps that wasn't hear-say but first hand knowledge from overhearing the confrontation between husband and wife?

Walls can have ears. ;)

JMHO
fran

[maconrich]

Just a thought, but wasn't the alleged time that Brad was to have allegedly threatened suicide at Xmas time? Weren't they staying with Nancy's parents at that time?

Perhaps that wasn't hear-say but first hand knowledge from overhearing the confrontation between husband and wife?

Walls can have ears. ;)

JMHO
fran

yes and it wouldn't be hearsay then, right?

[EntreNous]

I'm thinking the long/tall thing is a floor lamp, like a torchiere like this...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s62/entrenous_album/P10538307.jpg

[momto3kids]

LOL, now I just said I thought it was a vacuum. You don't think so?
I can see something at the bottom and it kinda' looked like the bottom of a vacuum.

Nevermind. :confused:

I'm confused,
fran

I just appears too light to me. Plus the top of the package is just as box ended as the bottom is. JMHO

You know Fran I can't see thru that bag as much as I would love too.:crazy:

[raisincharlie]

Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?


I said it was essential but not the only key - how is that saying it is not important ?

[jumpstreet]

A friend of mine that lives in the Lochmere area reported information to a detective the day Nancy went missing. While my friend was on her jog that day, she saw a woman by Nancy's description around 8am. She described an item of clothing this woman was wearing that was of interest to the detective. Whether this is a coincidence or not, an item of clothing as my friend described was found in the woods. It was not an item of clothing that was known to the public. I have no idea why the police would not release that information, but maybe it was a false lead. Either way, it's just enough information to make my friend stop running alone even if the police say they don't believe the murder was random.

This would obviously be fairly huge if true. [ Anyone heard any more about it or anything like it at all? ]

[momto3kids]

I'm thinking the long/tall thing is a floor lamp, like a torchiere like this...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s62/entrenous_album/P10538307.jpg

I thought about that too, but the officer doesn't have a hold on it.

Believe me I have already paraded around my house trying it all out!!:clap:
You should too....

[fran]

This is the picture I was looking at. The guy carrying the bag has no grasp on it while he carrys it out. I have always had to grasp one to lift up. It is too long also IMO I can be totally wrong.

Also with the vacuum they could take the bag or canister to get their evidence.

To be honest mom, I totally thought it looked like a vacuum. I know I'd have to hold it with two hands, but many men are stronger and can throw something over their shoulder with ease that we women have to struggle to get up. But after I read your post, I looked at it again, and it almost looks like a rug or something rolled.

A comforter or blanket would be most likely folded up. A rug from the home? Not floor mats from the car, too large. The rug from the car? The lining of the trunk?

Well, September 2 isn't too long to wait. Guess we'll have to wait until then.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

yes and it wouldn't be hearsay then, right?

Right, 'witness testimony,' IMHO

fran

[momto3kids]

To be honest mom, I totally thought it looked like a vacuum. I know I'd have to hold it with two hands, but many men are stronger and can throw something over their shoulder with ease that we women have to struggle to get up. But after I read your post, I looked at it again, and it almost looks like a rug or something rolled.

A comforter or blanket would be most likely folded up. A rug from the home? Not floor mats from the car, too large. The rug from the car? The lining of the trunk?

Well, September 2 isn't too long to wait. Guess we'll have to wait until then.

JMHO
fran

They need the trunk mat/liner...or what ever he put back there. If he put a rug in the trunk I hope they got it. I just hope they get something from back there and he didn't rid of the evidence.

Did anyone notice while the crime scene tape was being put up in the background it looks like 1 of the SUV back floor mats was on the ground? Then later during the search the LE was stepping all over it?

Was he trying to clean up the SUV to steer them to thinking that was the vehicle used? :waitasec:

[EntreNous]

I'm thinking the long/tall thing is a floor lamp, like a torchiere like this...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s62/entrenous_album/P10538307.jpg

I saved the image and used my handy dandy Kodak Easyshare software to lighten the photo, zoom & crop it.

It really looks like a lamp, the bottom of a lamp base to me. What do you guys think?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s62/entrenous_album/cooper_house_evidence_cfl-400x300.jpg

[raisincharlie]

This would obviously be fairly huge if true. [ Anyone heard any more about it or anything like it at all? ]

I heard Chief Bazemore say there were no confirmed sightings of Nancy. Quess she would know.

[maconrich]

They need the trunk mat/liner...or what ever he put back there. If he put a rug in the trunk I hope they got it. I just hope they get something from back there and he didn't rid of the evidence.

Did anyone notice while the crime scene tape was being put up in the background it looks like 1 of the SUV back floor mats was on the ground? Then later during the search the LE was stepping all over it?

Was he trying to clean up the SUV to steer them to thinking that was the vehicle used? :waitasec:

I'm going to have to watch the videos again -- all of them. So maybe the SUV wasn't used to transport her....hmmmmm....

[Star12]

LOL, now I just said I thought it was a vacuum. You don't think so?
I can see something at the bottom and it kinda' looked like the bottom of a vacuum.

Nevermind. :confused:

I'm confused,
fran

If you follow the shadow of the squarish, smaller bag carried by the officer in front, the darkened area that looks like the bottom of a vacuum seems to be a continuation of a reflected shadow from that smaller bag.

[Onescout]

NO...LOL....he located it and got the LE to come research it. He didn't come out of the woods with it in his hand.

Everyone would have :eye::eye: and not had a conversation with him..

Ewww I just had a super creepy thought...maybe that was the shovel that BC killed NC with from their own home and he dumped it there at the construction site when he dumped her body...then when he was back out there, he picked it up again in front of witness so it would explain his fingerprints on it, if it ever became a part of the investigation.
There would be no other reason to explain him picking that shovel up....look for blunt force trauma as COD.

[lunarmodule]

I'm sorry, but who here thinks Brad is going to fight for custody of his kids? Most of us know how hard it is to be a parent...now how about a single parent? Believe me, BC has not got a clue. He's a narcissist. The only reason he's pursuing custody is because they're his. What the hell will he do with them if he gets them? Set up playdates with SH? IMO, he hasn't put up a fuss with the inlaws because he doesn't really want the kids...unless they factor into some other scenario his defense lawyers have. Imagine yourself, as a parent, in this awful situation, imagine that you have a shaky alibi even if you are truly innocent, would you not be sobbing at the thought of your kids being taken away---even if you knew it was temporary?

[Onescout]

If you follow the shadow of the squarish, smaller bag carried by the officer in front, the darkened area that looks like the bottom of a vacuum seems to be a continuation of a reflected shadow from that smaller bag.

The contents of a vacuum cleaner would be very important and not to man bash, but most men would not think to remove the bag after cleaning up a murder scene....

[momto3kids]

I saved the image and used my handy dandy Kodak Easyshare software to lighten the photo, zoom & crop it.

It really looks like a lamp, the bottom of a lamp base to me. What do you guys think?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s62/entrenous_album/cooper_house_evidence_cfl-400x300.jpg

I seriously thought it was too and it still might be..but take one in your home and try carrying it around...You have to grasp it on the pole to carry it.

I seriously tried it and couldn't do it..:biglaugh:

What's even funnier is I dropped it and bent it so it is at Goodwill now..:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

If you go to Goodwill and see a black pole lamp, slightly bent...it's mine!:rolleyes:

[Star12]

i seriously thought it was too and it still might be..but take one in your home and try carrying it around...you have to grasp it on the pole to carry it.

I seriously tried it and couldn't do it..:biglaugh:

What's even funnier is i dropped it and bent it so it is at goodwill now..:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

If you go to goodwill and see a black pole lamp, slightly bent...it's mine!:rolleyes:

dibs!!!

[SleuthyGal]

{shrug}

I cannot make out what it is...no clue at all. If this were a game show I'd be out on the 1st round. "Clueless for $100, Alex!"

[raisincharlie]

I'm going to have to watch the videos again -- all of them. So maybe the SUV wasn't used to transport her....hmmmmm....

I thought the SUV would be the transport vehicle but there is that pesky issue of getting a body into it if it is sitting outside overnight. The 325 being in the garage - he could manage getting a body in there without being seen.


Anyone know if there are any windows in the garage ? If he did it at night he would need a light unless there is a window where street light could infiltrate.

[Star12]

hmmmm, maybe the officer didn't want to grab it by its middle, for some reason. But imagine if he had to carry that sucker around for 20 minutes. Think his hand might curve more around the middle of that thing? And it doesn't look very heavy, either, for him to be holding it that way. And I do realize he's a big guy, but it just looks like he's hugging it.

[raisincharlie]

I'm sorry, but who here thinks Brad is going to fight for custody of his kids? Most of us know how hard it is to be a parent...now how about a single parent? Believe me, BC has not got a clue. He's a narcissist. The only reason he's pursuing custody is because they're his. What the hell will he do with them if he gets them? Set up playdates with SH? IMO, he hasn't put up a fuss with the inlaws because he doesn't really want the kids...unless they factor into some other scenario his defense lawyers have. Imagine yourself, as a parent, in this awful situation, imagine that you have a shaky alibi even if you are truly innocent, would you not be sobbing at the thought of your kids being taken away---even if you knew it was temporary?

He went into a room and hashed this out at the first hearing - he won't do anything different for the second hearing IMO. There is a very definite reason he didn't want to hash this out infront of a judge nor did he want to be asked about what happened the morning Nancy went missing. He will put on the act, but in the end he won't fight IMO.

[momto3kids]

Ewww I just had a super creepy thought...maybe that was the shovel that BC killed NC with from their own home and he dumped it there at the construction site when he dumped her body...then when he was back out there, he picked it up again in front of witness so it would explain his fingerprints on it, if it ever became a part of the investigation.
There would be no other reason to explain him picking that shovel up....look for blunt force trauma as COD.

But he didn't pick the shovel up at least to bring it to the LE. He went and got the LE to come see what he had found. Now if he picked it up when he found it originally....I don't know.

The strange thing is this was an area that had been searched already. BC is the one who told what he found...no one went down into the brush to see if he was telling the truth. Everyone was skittish thinking NC might have been located or was close by.

I have no idea if the LE took the shovel or not...everyone left when BC disclosed who he was...:eek:

[maconrich]

I'm sorry, but who here thinks Brad is going to fight for custody of his kids? Most of us know how hard it is to be a parent...now how about a single parent? Believe me, BC has not got a clue. He's a narcissist. The only reason he's pursuing custody is because they're his. What the hell will he do with them if he gets them? Set up playdates with SH? IMO, he hasn't put up a fuss with the inlaws because he doesn't really want the kids...unless they factor into some other scenario his defense lawyers have. Imagine yourself, as a parent, in this awful situation, imagine that you have a shaky alibi even if you are truly innocent, would you not be sobbing at the thought of your kids being taken away---even if you knew it was temporary?

If he's not arrested I do think he'll fight for them - at some point anyway and for the reasons you state (they're his and his ego would make him think they should be with him no matter what). I truly believe he made the right decision by working with Nancy's family and coming to an agreement though - for himself and for the girls. He didn't need to be put on the stand where what he said could be used against him in a (possible) criminal trial; and the girls absolutely needed to be out of the environment and in a loving home. It's so very, very sad...

[SleuthyGal]

He went into a room and hashed this out at the first hearing - he won't do anything different for the second hearing IMO.

Agree! Remember this was the guy who allegedly (according to one affidavit) told Nancy to leave, take the girls, and he never wanted to see ANY of them again. Now what father would SAY that? I don't think he really wants his kids; he is ill-equipped to care for them on many levels. :behindbar

[Onescout]

But he didn't pick the shovel up at least to bring it to the LE. He went and got the LE to come see what he had found. Now if he picked it up when he found it originally....I don't know.

The strange thing is this was an area that had been searched already. BC is the one who told what he found...no one went down into the brush to see if he was telling the truth. Everyone was skittish thinking NC might have been located or was close by.

I have no idea if the LE took the shovel or not...everyone left when BC disclosed who he was...:eek:

It makes the hair stand up on my neck, isn't it strange?

[Star12]

I thought the SUV would be the transport vehicle but there is that pesky issue of getting a body into it if it is sitting outside overnight. The 325 being in the garage - he could manage getting a body in there without being seen.


Anyone know if there are any windows in the garage ? If he did it at night he would need a light unless there is a window where street light could infiltrate.

I thought about that, too, Bubba, but think about this. As you are looking at the house, the inner garage door to the house is likely on the right hand side. Room is kinda tight because there's all kinds of 'stuff' - bikes, toys, etc. - on the left hand side. So he'd have to manuever the body in a fairly tight space to the trunk area, which would also be a fairly tight space with the overhead door closed. And the body would also be, pardon the expression, dead weight, and awkward, also.

I certainly do agree about the privacy, though.

[maconrich]

I thought the SUV would be the transport vehicle but there is that pesky issue of getting a body into it if it is sitting outside overnight. The 325 being in the garage - he could manage getting a body in there without being seen.


Anyone know if there are any windows in the garage ? If he did it at night he would need a light unless there is a window where street light could infiltrate.

Wonder if a bright flashlight would have served the purpose? Or maybe leaving an inside light on and the door to the garage open? I thought someone had a layout of the house, but I'm not sure. Most garages don't have windows although I've seen plenty where there's a window in the outside door (like a side door leading into the yard). But yes it would either seem he shifted the vehicles or loaded her into the one that was in the garage, no?

[EntreNous]

I seriously thought it was too and it still might be..but take one in your home and try carrying it around...You have to grasp it on the pole to carry it.

I seriously tried it and couldn't do it..:biglaugh:

What's even funnier is I dropped it and bent it so it is at Goodwill now..:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

If you go to Goodwill and see a black pole lamp, slightly bent...it's mine!:rolleyes:

:biglaugh:

Maybe it's because I deal antiques on the side and I've got a house full of them but most likely it's because I was in guard, (twirling flags, rifles & sabers), as a kid. With a little practice you too can even twirl one of those. :biggrin:

[sunflowers]

Ewww I just had a super creepy thought...maybe that was the shovel that BC killed NC with from their own home and he dumped it there at the construction site when he dumped her body...then when he was back out there, he picked it up again in front of witness so it would explain his fingerprints on it, if it ever became a part of the investigation.
There would be no other reason to explain him picking that shovel up....look for blunt force trauma as COD.

super creepy thought. also possible.

[sunflowers]

Wonder if a bright flashlight would have served the purpose? Or maybe leaving an inside light on and the door to the garage open? I thought someone had a layout of the house, but I'm not sure. Most garages don't have windows although I've seen plenty where there's a window in the outside door (like a side door leading into the yard). But yes it would either seem he shifted the vehicles or loaded her into the one that was in the garage, no?

layout of house is www.wakegov.com under property tax records, put in their address or name, then there's different topics (sales, etc) & one of those sections has a floor plan (of sorts) made by the tax assessors.

[momto3kids]

:biglaugh:

Maybe it's because I deal antiques on the side and I've got a house full of them but most likely it's because I was in guard, (twirling flags, rifles & sabers), as a kid. With a little practice you too can even twirl one of those. :biggrin:

You know I had to wait until no one was home...which is almost never.

Then my husband asked why it was going to Goodwill...:waitasec: He wouldn't have missed it if I had gotten it into the car better than I did..wedged behind my seat.

Then the guy at Goodwill told me he couldn't take it:eek:. He told me it didn't have 3 plugs...I told him to go in the back and he would never know I had left it...:crazy: That is what I went thru to parade thru my home trying to figure out what that darn bag has...

[raisincharlie]

I thought about that, too, Bubba, but think about this. As you are looking at the house, the inner garage door to the house is likely on the right hand side. Room is kinda tight because there's all kinds of 'stuff' - bikes, toys, etc. - on the left hand side. So he'd have to manuever the body in a fairly tight space to the trunk area, which would also be a fairly tight space with the overhead door closed. And the body would also be, pardon the expression, dead weight, and awkward, also.

I certainly do agree about the privacy, though.

Why do you think the inner door would be on the right - away from the main part of the house ?

[Star12]

I thought the SUV would be the transport vehicle but there is that pesky issue of getting a body into it if it is sitting outside overnight. The 325 being in the garage - he could manage getting a body in there without being seen.


Anyone know if there are any windows in the garage ? If he did it at night he would need a light unless there is a window where street light could infiltrate.

Don't know if there is one or not. the house next door seems to have one in their garage, so I would imagine his would too. Need to check the pics where the guy is getting into the garbage can.

[raisincharlie]

Don't know if there is one or not. the house next door seems to have one in their garage, so I would imagine his would too. Need to check the pics where the guy is getting into the garbage can.

Or the guy walking along the side of the house - good idea.

[maconrich]

layout of house is www.wakegov.com (http://www.wakegov.com) under property tax records, put in their address or name, then there's different topics (sales, etc) & one of those sections has a floor plan (of sorts) made by the tax assessors.

Thanks! Haven't found the pictures but their taxes are due on the first of Sept.

[EntreNous]

You know I had to wait until no one was home...which is almost never.

Then my husband asked why it was going to Goodwill...:waitasec: He wouldn't have missed it if I had gotten it into the car better than I did..wedged behind my seat.

Then the guy at Goodwill told me he couldn't take it:eek:. He told me it didn't have 3 plugs...I told him to go in the back and he would never know I had left it...:crazy: That is what I went thru to parade thru my home trying to figure out what that darn bag has...

:floorlaugh: You poor thing, you ruined your nice lamp all for sleuthing!

I like to scour yardsales/estate sales for old ones, I take 'em home, polish and paint & get the hubbs to rewire them. I usually then sell them but too often I fall in love and can't let 'em go.

I'm still gonna go with the lamp theory. Of course I could be totally wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. :crazy:

[EntreNous]

Thanks! Haven't found the pictures but their taxes are due on the first of Sept and he's not paid them yet

Here ya go Maconrich. Scroll down for the pics. It's not a good layout, mainly just the basic shape of the ground level.
Cooper House (http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Building.asp?id=0198935&stype=addr&stnum=104&stname=wallsburg&locidList=&spg=1&cd=01&loc=104++WALLSBURG+CT&des=LO17+LOCHSIDE+GLEN+SUB+BM1993-916&pin=0772139589)

[maconrich]

Here ya go Maconrich. Scroll down for the pics. It's not a good layout, mainly just the basic shape of the ground level.
Cooper House (http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Building.asp?id=0198935&stype=addr&stnum=104&stname=wallsburg&locidList=&spg=1&cd=01&loc=104++WALLSBURG+CT&des=LO17+LOCHSIDE+GLEN+SUB+BM1993-916&pin=0772139589)

Thank you :blushing: I'm way too blonde

[ncnative]

That's a photo from 1995. Wow. They have trees now.

[momto3kids]

The door into the house from the garage will be on the left hand side. If the door is anywhere else it will go directly into the family room.

[SleuthyGal]

I just watched one of the videos and the news person was standing near the Cooper house, but off to the right side.

1. There are no windows in the garage doo