Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #21

[christine2448]

Please continue GENERAL discussions here. Look around Nancy has her own forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165), there are several threads started on specific topics to try and stay organized.


Links to previous and similar threads can be found toward the bottom of the page.


Newbies.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

I am sad such a tragedy is bringing us all together.

I advise everyone to read the RULES of WS, Long (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66869)and Short Version (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66872).

[Bob&Bob]

What was the time and day when you saw the crooked
license tag?

[momto3kids]

I agree RC...I absolutely do believe the 3rd SW was for LTF.
Card access, child care, computers, lockers....just too much @LTF to not check it out and see what ole Brad buddy was really doing there.

[Skittles]

Wow - thats quite a security set up they have.

Seems to me you may have just made a case for the "undisclosed location"

RC:

Do you mean that if LE couldn't find Nancy's ID that would give them grounds for a warrant to search locked lockers at LTF?

[momto3kids]

What was the time and day when you saw the crooked
license tag?

Around 6 to 7 pm....

[SleuthyGal]

I agree RC...I absolutely do believe the 3rd SW was for LTF.
Card access, child care, computers, lockers....just too much @LTF to not check it out and see what ole Brad buddy was really doing there.

Yes it does seem like this would be a logical 3rd place to search and they would need a warrant to do so. You have at least 2 factors:

1. Her LTF card is not in her possession
2. Her husband said he went to LTF

Smart to check things out there, esp. if there are a lot of "resources" he could use while there.

[momto3kids]

Skittles thank you so much for the wonderful insight to LTF. I have not joined, but my kids go quite a bit as a guest. It has really helped me to understand some things I had questions about. I do know that the employee's can't get by the desk without having their card swiped. I knew they were stringent with their rules.

This does show what a great organized fitness club this is.

I hope BC realizes this also and what he did at LTF will come back to haunt him IMO

[DogWood]

In looking for a picture of the BMW sedan, I ran across these again. Note picture #11. They were all over the SUV, inside and out. Looks like test kits everywhere.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html

With regard to the sedan...There is a picture of it in the driveway here http://www.bluelineradio.com/news714.html about half-way down the page. Not only does the plate look straight in that picture, it appears to be trunk lid not the bumper part of the car. He should have noticed that any time he opened the trunk. Hmmm.

[momto3kids]

Another thing BC could have done and it appears he didn't...call SH to go to Johnson Lake and check for NC. SH practically lives across the street from the parking lot.

Did he call SH? NO

BC didn't want help he wanted to cover his butt and was backed up against the wall by JA.
PRICELESS as you say RC!

[SleuthyGal]

I have not joined, but my kids go quite a bit as a guest. It has really helped me to understand some things I had questions about. I do know that the employee's can't get by the desk without having their card swiped. I knew they were stringent with their rules.

This does show what a great organized fitness club this is.


Hearing the description of the great facility and all they have there, it makes me wish I lived closer so I could join (it just wouldn't make sense for me). I'm available if anyone for any reason feels they need/want to bring a guest there!

[raisincharlie]

RC:

Do you mean that if LE couldn't find Nancy's ID that would give them grounds for a warrant to search locked lockers at LTF?

Could be a combination of reasons actually. For instance if it came to LE's attention that Brad went there on Saturday and used his own card in a time frame that he said he was looking for Nancy - LE would want to review the computer records and any surveillance video that may exist, they would be wondering why he checked in, if he did. The warrant would be necessary to check the computer records as that data is private information.

If Nancy's card was missing but it was found the card was swiped at LTF on that Saturday and Brad and several others say she ran with nothing - LE is going to research those records for that reason. If the records show she checked in - and no one has reported seeing her - chances are yes they are going to want to look in lockers to see if she left anything or if someone else did that is unaccounted for by someone.

To me the undisclosed location is a location LE does not want someone in paticular to know they are searching. To me that suggests it is not a residence for sure and definitely not a residence that would be known to a potential suspect. This pretty much leaves commercial facilities - LTF possibly, a storage unit possibly for examples. LTF would require a warrant because it is a private membership only facility - therefore the members have an expectation of privacy - warrant essential.

[DogWood]

Yes it does seem like this would be a logical 3rd place to search and they would need a warrant to do so. You have at least 2 factors:

1. Her LTF card is not in her possession
2. Her husband said he went to LTF

Smart to check things out there, esp. if there are a lot of "resources" he could use while there.

My only question would be why they would wait until the 25th of July to search LTF? LE knew about his trip there pretty early on from his affidavit, if not sooner.

[EntreNous]

SleuthyGal SleuthyGal is online now
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 400
Here's another thing I've often thought about (and mentioned before): here you have a good friend (perhaps a 'best' friend) who goes into FULL ON PANIC MODE when NC fails to show up within a 1-hr window of the time they were to get together.

Now I don't know JA at all; never heard of her before this case. I have friends who are occasionally late or occasionally get tied up doing something and our plans get shifted as a result. Things don't quite start on time (I'm a punctual person so this sometimes drives me crazy). But WHY would a friend go into PANIC MODE so quickly? UNLESS that friend was already fearful that something might happen to her friend...the friend who is in a very estranged rel'p...said rel'p having gone back into "hate mode," as mentioned by the wife the night before, at the party.

Friends don't usually go into this full on panic mode within a 3 hr timeframe. Unless said friend is like my 80 year old mother who is the Olympic Champion of Worrying (Guiness Book of World Records-level), something hit her that morning...her intuition was telling her DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!

She knew. In her GUT she knew. She probably wasn't even consciously aware of it but a certain knowledge or 'knowing' was given to her on a very unconcious level.

BTW, I had the same thing happen to me the day I found out my brother had been found dead. And there is no explanation for it that can be explained by our 5 basic senses.





I did that too SG!!! :eek:I totally understand what you're talking about.

My BIL was in the end stages of brain cancer (GBM), after fighting for 2+ years. I'd moved in with my sister to help care for him. Our mom lived less than a 1/2 mi. from my sister's house and would come over every day around noon and stayed 'til about 6 pm. Sometimes she'd be later if she went shopping, etc. Until one Friday she didn't arrive. By 12:30 I was calling her. I had a terrible feeling. At 1 pm I was in panic mode and my sister thought I was crazy. I jumped in the car and drove to her house and that's when I found her. She'd had a hemorrhagic stroke and died that night.

Yes, she could have been out at the grocery or any number of places but I knew, I just knew something had happened to her.

That may be exactly what happened with JA. She was sincerely distraught in that phone call.

Women's intuition or whatever you want to call it can be a strong signal that something is terribly wrong.

[SleuthyGal]

To me the undisclosed location is a location LE does not want someone in particular to know they are searching. To me that suggests it is not a residence for sure and definitely not a residence that would be known to a potential suspect.

So if LTF were the subject of that 3rd SW, then BC would NOT have been notified that LTF was being searched?

Is there a reason he would have been notified about the Cisco SW but not this 3rd location? Because Cisco is also a commercial facility, not owned by Brad.

[EntreNous]

So if LTF were the subject of that 3rd SW, then BC would NOT have been notified that LTF was being searched?

Is there a reason he would have been notified about the Cisco SW but not this 3rd location? Because Cisco is also a commercial facility, not owned by Brad.

I have to question that too. There's too many employees at LTF for that not to have hit the grapevine.

I'm sticking with the SH theory. They possibly wanted his DNA.

[raisincharlie]

My only question would be why they would wait until the 25th of July to search LTF? LE knew about his trip there pretty early on from his affidavit, if not sooner.

Very good question.

My thought on this is there would have been no reason to check on Brad's story of where he went and what he did until they found and identified Nancy and ruled her death a homicide. The order of warrants that we "know" of seems to follow a progression - house - work place of husband - at this point it becomes apparent they are looking closely at him. Perhaps the delay was based on prioritizing the desired information.

[momto3kids]

In looking for a picture of the BMW sedan, I ran across these again. Note picture #11. They were all over the SUV, inside and out. Looks like test kits everywhere.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html

With regard to the sedan...There is a picture of it in the driveway here http://www.bluelineradio.com/news714.html about half-way down the page. Not only does the plate look straight in that picture, it appears to be trunk lid not the bumper part of the car. He should have noticed that any time he opened the trunk. Hmmm.

You are correct...the tag is on the trunk lid. I just checked a 325 and it is that way. Hmmm

[Bob&Bob]

Why were you outside his driveway at 6-7 pm? By the way,
what day was it?

[raisincharlie]

So if LTF were the subject of that 3rd SW, then BC would NOT have been notified that LTF was being searched?

Is there a reason he would have been notified about the Cisco SW but not this 3rd location? Because Cisco is also a commercial facility, not owned by Brad.

BC has no right to a copy of the Cisco search warrant - that belongs to Cisco alone as it is their property being searched. I doubt Brad was notified. The undisclosed location - unless that property belongs to BC - he would not be entitled to a copy of that warrant either and LE would not be required to notify him of that either.

[SleuthyGal]

Until one Friday she didn't arrive. By 12:30 I was calling her. I had a terrible feeling. At 1 pm I was in panic mode and my sister thought I was crazy. I jumped in the car and drove to her house and that's when I found her. She'd had a hemorrhagic stroke and died that night.

Ooooh I'm so sorry EntreNous. I'm so sad for your loss. Tragic. :frown:

In my case it was truly weird. My brother lived alone in PA. I of course lived in NC, my parents were in FL at the time. It was the day of my Bday and I was getting into my car to go meet friends for dinner. As I got in my car this loud voice (in my head) said for me to be "very careful and not let anything happen to me...some important news was coming." This voice was so loud and so insistent that I actually answered it out loud! I said, "Okay, okay I'll be careful! Look I'm putting on my seatbelt! I always put on my seatbelt!" BTW, I don't normally hear voices and I am perfectly sane. As I was driving to the resto I then thought of how I hadn't heard from my brother on my Bday...which was not unusual at all...he usually did not send a card, but for some reason I thought of him and not hearing from him.

3 hours later I found out my brother had been found dead in his bed...he was apparently found right at the time I was getting in my car to go to dinner. Heart attack. Had been dead for 2 days. When my parents couldn't get ahold of him they called the local police in his hometown who broke down his apt. door and found him. I knew none of this until hours later.

[raisincharlie]

In looking for a picture of the BMW sedan, I ran across these again. Note picture #11. They were all over the SUV, inside and out. Looks like test kits everywhere.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html

With regard to the sedan...There is a picture of it in the driveway here http://www.bluelineradio.com/news714.html about half-way down the page. Not only does the plate look straight in that picture, it appears to be trunk lid not the bumper part of the car. He should have noticed that any time he opened the trunk. Hmmm.

CCBI is certainly picking over that SUV pretty good - even under it and taking photographs. Looks like they were definitely concerned about the X5. Thanks DogWood - very interesting.

[SleuthyGal]

BC has no right to a copy of the Cisco search warrant - that belongs to Cisco alone as it is their property being searched. I doubt Brad was notified. The undisclosed location - unless that property belongs to BC - he would not be entitled to a copy of that warrant either and LE would not be required to notify him of that either.

Raisin, why do you think LE let it be known that Cisco was the recipient of that 2nd SW and yet the 3rd SW is 'undisclosed?' Any ideas on that? It's not like the public doesn't know that BC is being looked at... :confused:

[DogWood]

Very good question.

My thought on this is there would have been no reason to check on Brad's story of where he went and what he did until they found and identified Nancy and ruled her death a homicide. The order of warrants that we "know" of seems to follow a progression - house - work place of husband - at this point it becomes apparent they are looking closely at him. Perhaps the delay was based on prioritizing the desired information.

Good point. Thanks!

[EntreNous]

Ooooh I'm so sorry EntreNous. I'm so sad for your loss. Tragic. :frown:

In my case it was truly weird. My brother lived alone in PA. I of course lived in NC, my parents were in FL at the time. It was the day of my Bday and I was getting into my car to go meet friends for dinner. As I got in my car this loud voice (in my head) said for me to be "very careful and not let anything happen to me...some important news was coming." This voice was so loud and so insistent that I actually answered it out loud! I said, "Okay, okay I'll be careful! Look I'm putting on my seatbelt! I always put on my seatbelt!" BTW, I don't normally hear voices and I am perfectly sane. As I was driving to the resto I then thought of how I hadn't heard from my brother on my Bday...which was not unusual at all...he usually did not send a card, but for some reason I thought of him and not hearing from him.

3 hours later I found out my brother had been found dead in his bed...he was apparently found right at the time I was getting in my car to go to dinner. Heart attack. Had been dead for 2 days. When my parents couldn't get ahold of him they called the local police in his hometown who broke down his apt. door and found him. I knew none of this until hours later.

Wow, I too am sorry for your loss SG.

It is strange, the alarms that can be set off by our senses when we somehow "know" something is way wrong. I have no doubt that one day we'll figure out how that works and how to harness that energy.

It kind of reminds me of the movie "Minority Report". They heavily researched the information in that film and what they used are actually things that leading scientists predict will be considered commonplace one day.

[raisincharlie]

Raisin, why do you think LE let it be known that Cisco was the recipient of that 2nd SW and yet the 3rd SW is 'undisclosed?' Any ideas on that? It's not like the public doesn't know that BC is being looked at... :confused:


Someone with more experience than I with warrants could probably give you the correct answer or at least a better answer than I can. It could be on Nancy's Dr. for all we know or the children's Dr. just never know with Hippa laws, could be a good reason to not disclose the location.

Just my thought - they have a suspect and they do not want anyone, suspect and the public to know where they are going. With that said, this is why I do not believe that warrant was served on a residence. The person being served is not bound to keep the information secret and may discuss it if they wish. If this warrant was served on one of BC's friends I suspect they would have told him about it. If it was served on one of Nancy's friends, I think the grapevine is too strong to not have the information escape somwewhere.

[SleuthyGal]

It is strange, the alarms that can be set off by our senses when we somehow "know" something is way wrong. I have no doubt that one day we'll figure out how that works and how to harness that energy.

Thanks Entre. I believe that we humans have this intuition for a reason and that we get information and are 'connected' and eventually/hopefully we'll get more understanding of that in a scientific way rather than a faith-based way. There is no other explanation for how I got that 'message' that particular night and with such loud insistence.

One psychic I met once said to me, "how do you think mankind was able to survive and thrive from the beginning of time?" "Intuition, knowledge learned from not just the 5 senses; i.e. infused knowledge. Living beings could not have evolved/survived without it!"

I believe it.

[DogWood]

CCBI is certainly picking over that SUV pretty good - even under it and taking photographs. Looks like they were definitely concerned about the X5. Thanks DogWood - very interesting.

YW! Yes, they sure were.

Can anyone tell what is laying on the driveway by the right front tire in photo #11?

[DogWood]

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother, SleuthyGal.

[EntreNous]

YW! Yes, they sure were.

Can anyone tell what is laying on the driveway by the right front tire in photo #11?

I don't know if I'm looking at the same thing you are but it looks like some kind of measuring stick. It also looks like it's coming out on the other side, the left side.

[DogWood]

I don't know if I'm looking at the same thing you are but it looks like some kind of measuring stick. It also looks like it's coming out on the other side, the left side.

What I'm looking at is in front of the yellow box on the driveway. It appears to be dark grey in color. Pretty big.

[SleuthyGal]

Thanks Dogwood!

OT Note to Self: find out where to get some of those booties LE investigators wear, so you can protect your shoes when walking in your wooded backyard filled with doggy landmines.

[SleuthyGal]

What I'm looking at is in front of the yellow box on the driveway. It appears to be dark grey in color. Pretty big.

It looks to me in that picture (#11) that it is sitting on top of the yellow box.

[DogWood]

It looks to me in that picture (#11) that it is sitting on top of the yellow box.

I think you're right. Do you see the 'hump' in it just to the left of his right leg?

ETA: I guess I'm wondering if it could be the inside panel to the right rear passenger door?

[momto3kids]

OK...just found HT is where NC got prescriptions filled

Maybe 3rd SW is for HT pharmacy if it isn't for LTF

[Star12]

I think you're right. Do you see the 'hump' in it just to the left of his right leg?

ETA: I guess I'm wondering if it could be the inside panel to the right rear passenger door?

Huh. to me it looked like ...IDK whatcha call it, but like a cord that would go on a trouble light. Some sort of heavy-duty electrical cord.

[raisincharlie]

OK...just found HT is where NC got prescriptions filled

Maybe 3rd SW is for HT pharmacy if it isn't for LTF

Interact maybe?

[Bob&Bob]

OK...just found HT is where NC got prescriptions filled

Maybe 3rd SW is for HT pharmacy if it isn't for LTF


Amyway, why were you outside the driveway at 6-7 pm?

[Star12]

Interact maybe?

nah, don't think so. That would be a subpoena, which they already did. Brad wouldn't have been there, and Nancy wasn't there. No need for a SW.

[Bob&Bob]

Oh I guess she's gone :(

[raisincharlie]

nah, don't think so. That would be a subpoena, which they already did. Brad wouldn't have been there, and Nancy wasn't there. No need for a SW.


The subpeona was for the civil case - nothing to do with the criminal case.

It is possible Nancy corresponded with someone on a crisis hotline there or even went to talk to see what options may exist.

[DogWood]

Huh. to me it looked like ...IDK whatcha call it, but like a cord that would go on a trouble light. Some sort of heavy-duty electrical cord.

Sure wish that LE officer would move out of the way! :floorlaugh:

[EntreNous]

I think you're right. Do you see the 'hump' in it just to the left of his right leg?

ETA: I guess I'm wondering if it could be the inside panel to the right rear passenger door?

I don't think it's the right rear passenger door panel because that door is open and you can see the panel. You can see the speaker cover portion of it very clearly. Those panels come in one piece so with all due respect I don't think that's very likely.

The yellow box looks like a tool box with the lid open and I think what we're seeing is only a portion of the object or objects as the remaining unseen parts are actually inside the box. Also note that the greenish lump that you see just in front of the officers left shin is not completely solid as you can see the white stick through it.

JMO (just my observation) ;)

[Star12]

The subpeona was for the civil case - nothing to do with the criminal case.

It is possible Nancy corresponded with someone on a crisis hotline there or even went to talk to see what options may exist.

RC, that's possible, but for records it would be a subpeona duces tecum, not a SW. There would be no need for LE to go to Interact and search for evidence.

[DogWood]

I don't think it's the right rear passenger door panel because that door is open and you can see the panel. You can see the speaker cover portion of it very clearly. Those panels come in one piece so with all due respect I don't think that's very likely.

The yellow box looks like a tool box with the lid open and I think what we're seeing is only a portion of the object or objects as the remaining unseen parts are actually inside the box. Also note that the greenish lump that you see just in front of the officers left shin is not completely solid as you can see the white stick through it.

JMO (just my observation) ;)

You must have a great monitor!

Note to self: Get a new monitor.

Thanks!

[raisincharlie]

RC, that's possible, but for records it would be a subpeona duces tecum, not a SW. There would be no need for LE to go to Interact and search for evidence.

Not sure I buy that. :cool:

[Star12]

I don't think it's the right rear passenger door panel because that door is open and you can see the panel. You can see the speaker cover portion of it very clearly. Those panels come in one piece so with all due respect I don't think that's very likely.

The yellow box looks like a tool box with the lid open and I think what we're seeing is only a portion of the object or objects as the remaining unseen parts are actually inside the box. Also note that the greenish lump that you see just in front of the officers left shin is not completely solid as you can see the white stick through it.

JMO (just my observation) ;)

I think that "white stick" actually is the sunny part which is bounded on the top by a thin shadow, and on the bottom by more shadow. Looks like the shadows are caused by the opened doors of the SUV.

[Star12]

Not sure I buy that. :cool:

Why not? AFAIK, Clients usually do not go the the office. They would go to the shelter. My initial contacts with them was by telephone, and after several calls they convinced me that I needed to come in, and they told me to go to the shelter.

A SW has a different function than a sdt.

I've typed up plenty of both.

[EntreNous]

I think that "white stick" actually is the sunny part which is bounded on the top by a thin shadow, and on the bottom by more shadow. Looks like the shadows are caused by the opened doors of the SUV.

Star 12, if you look at the whole picture again you can see a white stick laying on the driveway under the X5 that juts out the left and right sides. If you look very closely you can just make out hash marks for measuring on the left side of it. You can also see that it runs under the vehicle.

[raisincharlie]

Why not? AFAIK, Clients usually do not go the the office. They would go to the shelter. My initial contacts with them was by telephone, and after several calls they convinced me that I needed to come in, and they told me to go to the shelter.

A SW has a different function than a sdt.

I've typed up plenty of both.

I realize they are different - but a warrant is still necessary to obtain documentation relating to phone calls, especially if they are taped and the matter is related to a criminal case, not civil.

[maconrich]

I realize they are different - but a warrant is still necessary to obtain documentation relating to phone calls, especially if they are taped and the matter is related to a criminal case, not civil.

hmmmm... I'm not sure about phone records or to be honest what the laws are in North Carolina about this. But at the shelter I worked at (in a different state) it was done with a subpoena which included either the administrator or a case worker along with the client's file (and we made note of all phone calls etc so that info would have been in the file *if* the person was a client - instead of someone just calling for information). If they'd put in an application a note would have been made on that, but if not and it was a more general call there wouldn't have been any physical records kept by the facility. (I worked at a transitional housing facility for homeless families, and did work with local agencies including those for domestic abuse, but I'm sure our policies were different than those of places like the abuse shelters)

ETA - HOWever if NC ever stayed at a shelter - even for one night - they would have a file on her!!

[ncnative]

Was anyone living in Cary way back when a couple who were divorcing went to meet each other at the lawyer's office on Walnut Street (directly across from Cary HS) and the husband had come into the office with a bomb strapped onto himself. The bomb went off in the lawyer's office. It was Tom Earls' office. He's still a lawyer, now lives in Raleigh. I can't remember what happened to the two who were divorcing. It was awful. I guess it was in the late 1970s or very early 1980s. Earls was our lawyer for a real estate transaction several times. He told me that he was no longer "doing divorces". :D

I know. That has nothing to do with anything. Except that it happened in "safe, uptopian" Cary. Hmpfh.

[momto3kids]

Looking at the pictures on the N&O site with the crime scene tape, vehicles being searched, etc. The date says the 16th, but it says Tuesday. The 16th was Wednesday. I do believe some were taken on Tuesday since it says once NC was identified tape is put up.
Is it me or are these dates mixed and some should state the 15th and other the 16th?

#34 with BC leaving the house....doesn't he look like someone beside himself in grief who just found it was his wife's body that was found??

[EntreNous]

People sometimes go absolutely ape---- during divorces.

[Star12]

Looking at the pictures on the N&O site with the crime scene tape, vehicles being searched, etc. The date says the 16th, but it says Tuesday. The 16th was Wednesday. I do believe some were taken on Tuesday since it says once NC was identified tape is put up.
Is it me or are these dates mixed and some should state the 15th and other the 16th?

#34 with BC leaving the house....doesn't he look like someone beside himself in grief who just found it was his wife's body that was found??

Uh... an 'oh chit' moment, but don't see any grief

[momto3kids]

Uh... an 'oh chit' moment, but don't see any grief
Is it me or has there just been NO emotion on the part of BC at all at the news conference or this photo?
Again a long sleeve shirt...

[EntreNous]

I think I've seen emotion from him when he did speak at that one presser but I think what I saw was fear and later that look of seething hatred on his face as reporters were asking questions of Chief Bazemore.

We've certainly not seen a look of anything since NC's body was discovered.

[wirehair]

When BC went to LTF he could have had both cards and said something like my wife will be in here in a minute, she's getting the kids out and one is asleep... or he could have used his wife's card saying he used her car instead and his card is in his car. He could have told them that they could see on the profile that they had a family membership, showed them his ID hoping they wouldn't remember the transaction.

[Zoe]

When BC went to LTF he could have had both cards and said something like my wife will be in here in a minute, she's getting the kids out and one is asleep... or he could have used his wife's card saying he used her car instead and his card is in his car. He could have told them that they could see on the profile that they had a family membership, showed them his ID hoping they wouldn't remember the transaction.

yeah...thereby providing BC an alibi, "oh, NC was at the gym while i was at ,,," but he HAD to know LE would check that out. i mean, there are a lot of cameras outside that building keeping watch over the parking lot and entrance area! :eek:

IMO and, of course, presuming BC did, as JA stated, kill NC.

[momto3kids]

I think I've seen emotion from him when he did speak at that one presser but I think what I saw was fear and later that look of seething hatred on his face as reporters were asking questions of Chief Bazemore.

We've certainly not seen a look of anything since NC's body was discovered.

I actually thought Chief Bazemore had more emotion when she made the announcement confirming it was NC who had been identified.

[raisincharlie]

yeah...thereby providing BC an alibi, "oh, NC was at the gym while i was at ,,," but he HAD to know LE would check that out. i mean, there are a lot of cameras outside that building keeping watch over the parking lot and entrance area! :eek:

IMO and, of course, presuming BC did, as JA stated, kill NC.

Zoe - if you know is the Lochmere Swim & Tennis Club also a private, members only, club ?

[ncnative]

RC, you have to pay to belong! There's a pool and tennis courts. I haven't been there since 1993. We don't belong any more because the kids grew up, and we never went there much anyway. (you have to pay even if you live in Lochmere, I meant to say)

[momto3kids]

RC...it is a private membership. You don't have to live in Lochmere to join but have to be a member to gain access or be with someone who is a member.

[raisincharlie]

RC, you have to pay to belong! There's a pool and tennis courts. I haven't been there since 1993. We don't belong any more because the kids grew up, and we never went there much anyway.

Thanks. Just wondering since Brad references he has a set time for a tennis match and he had to call to cancel it if maybe it was scheduled there. Seems like public facilities are usually first come first serve maybe?

[Zoe]

Zoe - if you know is the Lochmere Swim & Tennis Club also a private, members only, club ?

hey, raisincharlie -
yes, it looks like it is membership only -- here's the link for the lowdown on lochmere swim & tennis club -> http://www.lochmere.org/pages/index.cfm?siteid=5086

[momto3kids]

RC, you have to pay to belong! There's a pool and tennis courts. I haven't been there since 1993. We don't belong any more because the kids grew up, and we never went there much anyway. (you have to pay even if you live in Lochmere, I meant to say)

Do you think they are feeling an impact from LTF? I know we received flyers or mailings the beginning of summer trying to get us to join

[raisincharlie]

hey, raisincharlie -
yes, it looks like it is membership only -- here's the link for the lowdown on lochmere swim & tennis club -> http://www.lochmere.org/pages/index.cfm?siteid=5086


Thank you ! Will check it out.

[ncnative]

Mom, I think everyone is feeling the impact of the LTF. (The smaller fitness centers, wellness centers, yoga places, etc.). I'm sure that the fees for LTF will keep some folks from joining it.

[momto3kids]

Mom, I think everyone is feeling the impact of the LTF. (The smaller fitness centers, wellness centers, yoga places, etc.). I'm sure that the fees for LTF will keep some folks from joining it.

I think some will always go to the neighborhood pools since they have friends there and their kids friends will also be there. The one thing is many of the subdivisons around here have swim teams and it will be active with those meets.
I just noticed this year how many places tried to get us to join...

I bet Anytime fitness next to Food Lion is really feeling it also.

[momto3kids]

When BC went to LTF he could have had both cards and said something like my wife will be in here in a minute, she's getting the kids out and one is asleep... or he could have used his wife's card saying he used her car instead and his card is in his car. He could have told them that they could see on the profile that they had a family membership, showed them his ID hoping they wouldn't remember the transaction.

You have pretty much said what I think has happened. LTF is IMO a place he didn't need to check out before Java Jive, WWMC & Hemlock Bluffs. He had intentions going to LTF and it wasn't looking for NC.:mad:

[raisincharlie]

hey, raisincharlie -
yes, it looks like it is membership only -- here's the link for the lowdown on lochmere swim & tennis club -> http://www.lochmere.org/pages/index.cfm?siteid=5086

Zoe,

I noticed your post in the meet up thread about your drive through of the area at a time fairly close to 7am and caught that you saw 5 LEOs near the Swim & Tennis Club.

Of course I have questions :p

The swim/tennis club is pretty much right at the intersection of Lily Atkins and Lochmere Drive - yes ? Lily Atkins from there would run to the east-southeast toward Holly Springs Road - yes ? At the location where Lily Atkins intersects Holly Springs Road - Nancy was found almost straight across from this intersection or at least in almost the same line ( maybe a bit south) - yes ?

Forgive me - this is easy for you all to visualize - not so much for bubba here. Is that fairly reasonable in terms of locations?

[Zoe]

Zoe,

I noticed your post in the meet up thread about your drive through of the area at a time fairly close to 7am and caught that you saw 5 LEOs near the Swim & Tennis Club.

Of course I have questions :p

The swim/tennis club is pretty much right at the intersection of Lily Atkins and Lochmere Drive - yes ? Lily Atkins from there would run to the east-southeast toward Holly Springs Road - yes ? At the location where Lily Atkins intersects Holly Springs Road - Nancy was found almost straight across from this intersection or at least in almost the same line ( maybe a bit south) - yes ?

Forgive me - this is easy for you all to visualize - not so much for bubba here. Is that fairly reasonable in terms of locations?

yes, it is. realizing, of course, that one has to turn left onto holly springs road from lily atkins road, then right on fielding drive and travel back to the cul-de-sac area where NC was found. but, your description in terms of straight across and a little south is accurate when looking at a map.

ETA - here's a drawing of the area from the local newspaper -- http://media.newsobserver.com/content/news/crime_safety/story_graphics/20080716_cooperbody.jpg

[raisincharlie]

yes, it is. realizing, of course, that one has to turn left onto holly springs road from lily atkins road, then right on fielding drive and travel back to the cul-de-sac area where NC was found. but, your description in terms of straight across and a little south is accurate when looking at a map.


Thank you Zoe ! Just have to get a picture in my head. This swim/tennis club is a bit east and south of Lochmere Lake as well and probably pretty much near the center of the search area if i have this in my head right. So if one draws a line kinda southwest a tad from Walsburg Court to the swim/tennis club and then another line east- southeast from the swim/tennis club to the recovery location one has basically a 90 degree angle formed at the swim/tennis club.

I'm just trying to figure what the LEOs were up to at that time of the morning by picturing these locations. Appreciate your help very much.

:clap:


Just saw the drawing - that helps too - again thanks !

[raisincharlie]

Zoe if you don't mind can I ask you some more about your trip ? Am fascinated by your descriptions.

[Zoe]

Thank you Zoe ! Just have to get a picture in my head. This swim/tennis club is a bit east and south of Lochmere Lake as well and probably pretty much near the center of the search area if i have this in my head right. So if one draws a line kinda southwest a tad from Walsburg Court to the swim/tennis club and then another line east- southeast from the swim/tennis club to the recovery location one has basically a 90 degree angle formed at the swim/tennis club.

I'm just trying to figure what the LEOs were up to at that time of the morning by picturing these locations. Appreciate your help very much.

:clap:



Just saw the drawing - that helps too - again thanks !

YW !
i had wondered if anyone in that immediate area saw what was going on later that morning. i was thinking they might have been getting ready to stop cars and pedestrians to ask, one more time, about the morning NC allegedly went missing. dunno, tho'.

[Zoe]

Zoe if you don't mind can I ask you some more about your trip ? Am fascinated by your descriptions.

ask away!

[raisincharlie]

ask away!

Great - if i get on your nerves just tell me to buzz off - all is good !

I noticed you turned off Holly Springs Rd onto Fielding and went down to the recovery site.

First - do you have an estimated time for how long it took you to drive from HS Rd to the recovery site and is Fielding pretty clean as you get close to the site ?

[momto3kids]

Thanks Dogwood!

OT Note to Self: find out where to get some of those booties LE investigators wear, so you can protect your shoes when walking in your wooded backyard filled with doggy landmines.

SG...I meant to tell you the booties are surgical booties. I am not sure where you can buy them...I know new homes have them at the front doors to walk thru.

They even have them up to the knees....:eek: I just hope it doesn't get that deep where you are walking.:floorlaugh:

[SleuthyGal]

SG...I meant to tell you the booties are surgical booties. I am not sure where you can buy them...I know new homes have them at the front doors to walk thru.

Yes I realized that after I posted. You can order just about ANYTHING online!

They even have them up to the knees....:eek: I just hope it doesn't get that deep where you are walking.:floorlaugh:

OMG bwah!! Let's hope not! In the TMI dept I feed my girlie-dog lots of carrots and ummm...yeah...use your imagination. :blushing:

[Zoe]

Great - if i get on your nerves just tell me to buzz off - all is good !

I noticed you turned off Holly Springs Rd onto Fielding and went down to the recovery site.

First - do you have an estimated time for how long it took you to drive from HS Rd to the recovery site and is Fielding pretty clean as you get close to the site ?

maybe 3 minutes or so? i was driving rather slow trying to see if i could see folks up and about in their houses! and, yes, it's clean back there -- no obstacles in the road. the cul-de-sac just past the one where NC was found, the lots have been cleared out/cleaned up -- no construction back there yet as of that time, just clearing the trees out of the way.

[raisincharlie]

maybe 3 minutes or so? i was driving rather slow trying to see if i could see folks up and about in their houses! and, yes, it's clean back there -- no obstacles in the road. the cul-de-sac just past the one where NC was found, the lots have been cleared out/cleaned up -- no construction back there yet as of that time, just clearing the trees out of the way.

Okay - 3 minutes at a slow pace.

When you came out - you went left on HS RD to Lily Atkins - right up to Lochmere Drive by the swim/tennis club. Do you recall about how long that took ?


And where you encountered vehicular traffic were some colored cars easier to see at distance than others given the lighting at that time if you recall ?

[carolinalady]

OK, here's my thoughts about Lifetime Fitness trip:

1) If he didn't murder Nancy, he's out looking around her normal running routes and is very close to LTF, he, on a whim, decides to stop in there to see if they have seen her.

2) If he did murder Nancy, he could've been driving around like he said "looking" for her, spots LTF and decides it would be a good place that he could be seen looking for her (on camera, person to person, just so someone could actually verify he was out looking).

I don't think he went there to check her in to make it appear she was there. I would imagine that there would be too much activity in LTF for him to be putting evidence in lockers. I would also think that attempting to dump any evidence in a dumpster at that time of day would be too visible.

I've never been to LTF so I can't attest to how crowded it would be on a Saturday afternoon. I do know that the gym I belong to has a pretty steady stream of people on Saturdays.

[Zoe]

Okay - 3 minutes at a slow pace.

When you came out - you went left on HS RD to Lily Atkins - right up to Lochmere Drive by the swim/tennis club. Do you recall about how long that took ?


And where you encountered vehicular traffic were some colored cars easier to see at distance than others given the lighting at that time if you recall ?

the trip to the swim/tennis club, once i turned onto holly springs road, just under 2 minutes.
i can't really answer that second question about the cars b/c part of my job is recognizing things such as vehicles, people, my surroundings!! now, having said that and sitting here thinking back to that time of morning, i have to believe i would notice, say, a red car right away whereas a white car might be less noticeable at that time of day. but i would be hyper aware on holly springs road if i was on foot on that road in that area.

[Zoe]

OK, here's my thoughts about Lifetime Fitness trip:

1) If he didn't murder Nancy, he's out looking around her normal running routes and is very close to LTF, he, on a whim, decides to stop in there to see if they have seen her.

2) If he did murder Nancy, he could've been driving around like he said "looking" for her, spots LTF and decides it would be a good place that he could be seen looking for her (on camera, person to person, just so someone could actually verify he was out looking).

I don't think he went there to check her in to make it appear she was there. I would imagine that there would be too much activity in LTF for him to be putting evidence in lockers. I would also think that attempting to dump any evidence in a dumpster at that time of day would be too visible.

I've never been to LTF so I can't attest to how crowded it would be on a Saturday afternoon. I do know that the gym I belong to has a pretty steady stream of people on Saturdays.


LTF has a "run club" that meets at 8am on saturdays. there has been no mention whatsoever about NC being in that club and i'm sure if she was, we would have heard that from BC, or one of her running buddies.

[raisincharlie]

the trip to the swim/tennis club, once i turned onto holly springs road, just under 2 minutes.
i can't really answer that second question about the cars b/c part of my job is recognizing things such as vehicles, people, my surroundings!! now, having said that and sitting here thinking back to that time of morning, i have to believe i would notice, say, a red car right away whereas a white car might be less noticeable at that time of day. but i would be hyper aware on holly springs road if i was on foot on that road in that area.

I am very glad you notice things ! Its great - very helpful. I'm wondering about color because, well obviously, we have a white car and a silver SUV to study on. I think either white of silver would not be as noticable as other colors as well.

So we now have (putting these on the map you linked)

3 minutes to the recovery site from HS RD/Fielding
2 minutes from HS RD/Fielding to Lily Atkins/Lochmere Drive


You may have to help here a bit but you said you drove from Walsburg Court to Cary Parkway to HS Rd.

So of course the next question is if you know about how long it may have taken from Walsburg Court to the turn off on Fielding ?

[carolinalady]

LTF has a "run club" that meets at 8am on saturdays. there has been no mention whatsoever about NC being in that club and i'm sure if she was, we would have heard that from BC, or one of her running buddies.

Interesting. I agree that BC would've certainly mentioned that if she was in that club. I'm not sure JA would have in her affidavit as her portion regarding Saturday morning was focused on what BC told her. I'm sure if she was involved w/ the run club, JA would've mentioned it to LE though.

[momto3kids]

OK, here's my thoughts about Lifetime Fitness trip:

1) If he didn't murder Nancy, he's out looking around her normal running routes and is very close to LTF, he, on a whim, decides to stop in there to see if they have seen her.

2) If he did murder Nancy, he could've been driving around like he said "looking" for her, spots LTF and decides it would be a good place that he could be seen looking for her (on camera, person to person, just so someone could actually verify he was out looking).

I don't think he went there to check her in to make it appear she was there. I would imagine that there would be too much activity in LTF for him to be putting evidence in lockers. I would also think that attempting to dump any evidence in a dumpster at that time of day would be too visible.

I've never been to LTF so I can't attest to how crowded it would be on a Saturday afternoon. I do know that the gym I belong to has a pretty steady stream of people on Saturdays.

Drive around for 2.5 hours in a few parking lots?

He went to LTF for a purpose and 1 thing in mind.

[Zoe]

I am very glad you notice things ! Its great - very helpful. I'm wondering about color because, well obviously, we have a white car and a silver SUV to study on. I think either white of silver would not be as noticable as other colors as well.

So we now have (putting these on the map you linked)

3 minutes to the recovery site from HS RD/Fielding
2 minutes from HS RD/Fielding to Lily Atkins/Lochmere Drive


You may have to help here a bit but you said you drove from Walsburg Court to Cary Parkway to HS Rd.

So of course the next question is if you know about how long it may have taken from Walsburg Court to the turn off on Fielding ?


from wallsburg to the turn onto fielding, i'm thinking 4 minutes. and, you're right - the white and silver would likely be less noticeable.

[raisincharlie]

from wallsburg to the turn onto fielding, i'm thinking 4 minutes. and, you're right - the white and silver would likely be less noticeable.

You see right where I'm going with this I know you do.

From your description you turn off Tyron Road then mention driving down Lochmere - now I'm kind of lost as to what your route is but note the time as 6:45. Did you happen to come down Kildare Farm Road to Lochmere or ? help:cool:

[Zoe]

You see right where I'm going with this I know you do.

From your description you turn off Tyron Road then mention driving down Lochmere - now I'm kind of lost as to what your route is but note the time as 6:45. Did you happen to come down Kildare Farm Road to Lochmere or ? help:cool:

kildaire farm to lochmere it was!!

[carolinalady]

Drive around for 2.5 hours in a few parking lots?

He went to LTF for a purpose and 1 thing in mind.

If he did kill Nancy, I can buy that he was driving around 2.5 hours trying to buy time and decide his gameplan. How many people are at LTF on a Saturday between 1-3pm? I really do think too many people would "see" him if he was
trying to dispose of evidence. And, trying to check Nancy in then would be a moot point b/c she's already missing (at a minimum, JA and Hannah Prichard have talked to him). He can't back up the check-in time.

[ncnative]

Zoe, accounting for the stoplight at Cary Pkwy/Lochmere Dr., and the one at Cary Pkwy./Holly Springs Road, but your 4 min. is a good guess.

[raisincharlie]

kildaire farm to lochmere it was!!

Okay - you rock !!!

So you had to have passed HT - turned left onto Lochmere and buzzed across Lochmere to catch Walsburg - yes ?

and of course - any idea about the time from Kildaire/tyron to Lochmere/Lily Atkins

and Lily Atkins to Walsburg ?

or total time Kildaire to Lochmere to Walsburg?

[CyberPro]

[QUOTE=EntreNous;2511919
Women's intuition or whatever you want to call it can be a strong signal that something is terribly wrong.[/QUOTE]

Snipped for length.

Yup, but Women's intuition is not limited to women!

I have had 2x instances where someone close to me died, and I knew it before I was told. Once, I am pretty sure I knew it before it happened, but since I am not sure exactly what the TOD was, I cannot know for sure.

Once, my wife was in a car accident, and I knew it when it happened, and knew it was her. I was on a volunteer EMS unit at the time, and I was on-call that Sunday. As soon as the pagers went off, I knew it was her. My logical side kept telling me she should have driven past that point, but I knew it nevertheless. I had to go to the scene of the accident and treat her. The accident was not her fault, it was very serious, and totalled the car, but she was not severly injured.

CyberPro

[momto3kids]

If he did kill Nancy, I can buy that he was driving around 2.5 hours trying to buy time and decide his gameplan. How many people are at LTF on a Saturday between 1-3pm? I really do think too many people would "see" him if he was
trying to dispose of evidence. And, trying to check Nancy in then would be a moot point b/c she's already missing (at a minimum, JA and Hannah Prichard have talked to him). He can't back up the check-in time.

Other reasons for going to LTF then to dispose of evidence...eed the kids, put them into the child care, use the computer.

He went to Carey's last. He never went to Java Jive....where she is to go all the time and he used as a possible place she was that morning. He had to drive right past it to leave Lochmere.

IMO, he left with a mission and it was to get to LTF for his alibi.

[Zoe]

Okay - you rock !!!

So you had to have passed HT - turned left onto Lochmere and buzzed across Lochmere to catch Walsburg - yes ?

and of course - any idea about the time from Kildaire/tyron to Lochmere/Lily Atkins

and Lily Atkins to Walsburg ?

or total time Kildaire to Lochmere to Walsburg?

once you turn off kildaire farm road onto lochmere, i'm guessing at this point it's about a 5, maybe 6 minute drive to wallsburg. again, i was driving rather slow looking around at houses and glancing down other roads i was passing.

[CyberPro]

OK, here's my thoughts about Lifetime Fitness trip:

1) If he didn't murder Nancy, he's out looking around her normal running routes and is very close to LTF, he, on a whim, decides to stop in there to see if they have seen her.

2) If he did murder Nancy, he could've been driving around like he said "looking" for her, spots LTF and decides it would be a good place that he could be seen looking for her (on camera, person to person, just so someone could actually verify he was out looking).

I don't think he went there to check her in to make it appear she was there. I would imagine that there would be too much activity in LTF for him to be putting evidence in lockers. I would also think that attempting to dump any evidence in a dumpster at that time of day would be too visible.

I've never been to LTF so I can't attest to how crowded it would be on a Saturday afternoon. I do know that the gym I belong to has a pretty steady stream of people on Saturdays.

LTF is a BUSY place almost every day. Sundays seem to be a bit less busy, but I am somewhat crowd-averse, so I usually go later than 10PM. I do sometimes take the kids there during the afternoon or evening, but I do not care to work-out when it is really hopping. It is busy from morning until around 10PM, and even after that, there are around 20 folks in there, roughly counting. This place is so huge that only having 20 in there feels like having your own private club.

CyberPro

[raisincharlie]

once you turn off kildaire farm road onto lochmere, i'm guessing at this point it's about a 5, maybe 6 minute drive to wallsburg. again, i was driving rather slow looking around at houses and glancing down other roads i was passing.

This is great so from Kildaire/Lochmere to Walsburg is 6 minutes - slow is good - means it could be done quicker. From looking at the map - seems that Lochmere/Lily Atkins is about mid way between Kildaire/Lochmere to Wlasburg - does that seem reasonable - 3 minutes either way from Lochmere/Lily Atkins ?


So now we have:
4 minutes from Walsburg Court to HS Rd/Fielding
3 minutes to the recovery site from HS RD/Fielding
3 minutes from recovery site to HS RD/ Fielding
2 minutes from HS RD/Fielding to Lily Atkins/Lochmere Drive
3 minutes from Lily Atkins/Lochmere to Lochmere/Kildaire (or 3 mins to Walsburg)

Roughly - based on driving slow and looking at houses.

Any idea how long it would take to get from Lochmere to HT driving up Kildaire ?

[momto3kids]

Snipped for length.

Yup, but Women's intuition is not limited to women!

I have had 2x instances where someone close to me died, and I knew it before I was told. Once, I am pretty sure I knew it before it happened, but since I am not sure exactly what the TOD was, I cannot know for sure.

Once, my wife was in a car accident, and I knew it when it happened, and knew it was her. I was on a volunteer EMS unit at the time, and I was on-call that Sunday. As soon as the pagers went off, I knew it was her. My logical side kept telling me she should have driven past that point, but I knew it nevertheless. I had to go to the scene of the accident and treat her. The accident was not her fault, it was very serious, and totalled the car, but she was not severly injured.

CyberPro


I call it sixth sense and sometimes I wish I didn't have it. It has sometimes ruined a day for me when I can't shake a feeling I have. I guess we all have it and some are more in tune to it than others, male or female.

[Zoe]

This is great so from Kildaire/Lochmere to Walsburg is 6 minutes - slow is good - means it could be done quicker. From looking at the map - seems that Lochmere/Lily Atkins is about mid way between Kildaire/Lochmere to Wlasburg - does that seem reasonable - 3 minutes either way from Lochmere/Lily Atkins ?


So now we have:
4 minutes from Walsburg Court to HS Rd/Fielding
3 minutes to the recovery site from HS RD/Fielding
3 minutes from recovery site to HS RD/ Fielding
2 minutes from HS RD/Fielding to Lily Atkins/Lochmere Drive
3 minutes from Lily Atkins/Lochmere to Lochmere/Kildaire (or 3 mins to Walsburg)

Roughly - based on driving slow and looking at houses.

Any idea how long it would take to get from Lochmere to HT driving up Kildaire ?


according to google, wallsburg to crescent commons [ht], it's about 8 minutes -- but you've got a couple of lights to deal with.

[Zoe]

g'night, all. i have an early start tomorrow. perhaps LE will make an arrest this week.

[raisincharlie]

according to google, wallsburg to crescent commons [ht], it's about 8 minutes -- but you've got a couple of lights to deal with.

From Walsburg - there is no direct access to Lochmere Drive is there ? One has to get to that part from Cary parkway - yes.

Let me ask this - couldn't a person come out of the Walsburg court area make a right on Cary Parkway and another right on Lochmere and avoid those lights ?

If you look at the map - the place where you saw LE was pretty much center of all of this and by looks equidistant to three points

The residence
The recovery site
HT

Drive times may vary a bit but distance wise it is pretty central. So I am wondering if LE was out there this am to do what you have just done - clock distances. Doing it on Sunday to get fastest time - may have done it on a Saturday to get average time.

[raisincharlie]

See you have to go Zoe - thank you very much for all this information. Will be studying on it :p

[momto3kids]

From Walsburg - there is no direct access to Lochmere Drive is there ? One has to get to that part from Cary parkway - yes.

Let me ask this - couldn't a person come out of the Walsburg court area make a right on Cary Parkway and another right on Lochmere and avoid those lights ?

If you look at the map - the place where you saw LE was pretty much center of all of this and by looks equidistant to three points

The residence
The recovery site
HT

Drive times may vary a bit but distance wise it is pretty central. So I am wondering if LE was out there this am to do what you have just done - clock distances. Doing it on Sunday to get fastest time - may have done it on a Saturday to get average time.

RC...when you leave BC home you pass 2 homes and come to a stop sign. You turn left on Coltsgate. Immediately stop again. You can turn left or right, but you are then on Lochmere Drive. BC home backs up to Lochmere Drive.

[raisincharlie]

RC...when you leave BC home you pass 2 homes and come to a stop sign. You turn left on Coltsgate. Immediately stop again. You can turn left or right, but you are then on Lochmere Drive. BC home backs up to Lochmere Drive.

I went and looked closer on Map Quest - I see that now. Thanks

I'm wondering though if one was to make a right on Lochmere and travel down past Lily Atkins and on out to Kildaire - it would be a right onto Kildaire - you have right on red yes ? So the light, if there is one there wouldn't much matter. Is there another if one is coming from south to north from Lochmere to get into HT ?

[momto3kids]

I went and looked closer on Map Quest - I see that now. Thanks

I'm wondering though if one was to make a right on Lochmere and travel down past Lily Atkins and on out to Kildaire - it would be a right onto Kildaire - you have right on red yes ? So the light, if there is one there wouldn't much matter. Is there another if one is coming from south to north from Lochmere to get into HT ?

Yes, and you have to wait for a green arrow in order to turn left into HT.

[raisincharlie]

I bet Skittles is going - whew - I escaped this third degree process

:D :D :D

[momto3kids]

RC..I do not want to confuse you by any means, but some people are creature habit.
There is a chance he went to Cary Pkwy from Fielding, turned left onto Tryon Road and left onto Kildaire Road into the shopping center.

There is also a cut thru behind Whole Foods in Waverly Place also off of Tryon Road.
Remember he stated Waverly? This could be a clue why he said Waverly. He was NOT living here when HT was in Waverly Place as many who were will still say HT in Waverly.

[momto3kids]

I bet Skittles is going - whew - I escaped this third degree process

:D :D :D

Skittles got it this morning! It will probably be awhile before she comes back for more...She was a great help in telling us about LTF I have to say.

[SleuthyGal]

Raisin,

Are you trying to fit the perp's movements that (very) early morning into a set timeframe? And if yes, what is the constraint you're working with (and why)?

[raisincharlie]

Yes, and you have to wait for a green arrow in order to turn left into HT.

Okay so I will say 8 minutes from Wallsburg Court to HT going across Lochmere - should be conservative enough since we aren't rocket scientists here.

So what we have if a person is to transport a body from Wallsburg Ct to the recovery location - there are two ways to get to that location. One way, vehicular traffic is to be expected. The other way - very minimal vehicular traffic until one goes between Lily Atkins and Fielding on Holly Springs Rd. Keeping in mind our person was moving slow and looking at houses.


Wallsburg Ct to Lochmere to Kildaire to HT - 8 minutes

Disposal routes

Route One - traffic encountered Wallsburg to Cary Pkwy to Holly Springs to Fielding to recovery site to HT

4 minutes Wallsburg to Cary Pkwy to Holly Springs to Fielding
3 minutes Fielding to recovery site
3 minutes recovery site to HS RD/Fielding
2 minutes HS Rd/Fielding to Lily Atkins to Lochmere
3 minutes Lochmere/Lily Atkins to Lochmere/Kildaire
3 minutes Lochmere/Kildaire to HT

Total 18 minutes - add one minute to THROW body = 19 minutes

Route Two - minimal traffic encounter -Wallsburg to Lochmere to Lily Atkins to Holly Springs to Fielding to recovery site to HT

3 minutes Wallsburg to Lochmere/Lily Atkins
2 minutes Lochmere/Lily Atkins across HS Rd to Fielding
3 minutes HS Rd/Fielding to recovery site
3 minutes Recovery site to Fielding/HS Rd
2 minutes Fielding/Holly Springs to Lily Atkins/Lochmere
3 minutes Lily Atkins Lochmere to Lochmere/Kildaire
3 minutes Lochmere Kildaire to HT

Total 19 minutes - add one minute to THROW body = 20 minutes



Taking either of these routes - a person would have time to leave the home, dump a body, and go to the store in a maximum of 20 minutes and return back to the house in a total expired time of 28 minutes - roughly.

Two trips to HT - one to dump a body and one just to go to the store total time roughly 48 minutes - add a few minutes to grab a couple of things and one still has time to accomplish all of this in one hour or less.

[momto3kids]

Raisin,

Are you trying to fit the perp's movements that (very) early morning into a set timeframe? And if yes, what is the constraint you're working with (and why)?

Maybe we could video the route for RC and upload it so there is a visual. I know it has to be hard not to be here 1st hand.

Whatcha think SG should we offer it?

[momto3kids]

Okay so I will say 8 minutes from Wallsburg Court to HT going across Lochmere - should be conservative enough since we aren't rocket scientists here.

So what we have if a person is to transport a body from Wallsburg Ct to the recovery location - there are two ways to get to that location. One way, vehicular traffic is to be expected. The other way - very minimal vehicular traffic until one goes between Lily Atkins and Fielding on Holly Springs Rd. Keeping in mind our person was moving slow and looking at houses.


Wallsburg Ct to Lochmere to Kildaire to HT - 8 minutes

Disposal routes

Route One - traffic encountered Wallsburg to Cary Pkwy to Holly Springs to Fielding to recovery site to HT

4 minutes Wallsburg to Cary Pkwy to Holly Springs to Fielding
3 minutes Fielding to recovery site
3 minutes recovery site to HS RD/Fielding
2 minutes HS Rd/Fielding to Lily Atkins to Lochmere
3 minutes Lochmere/Lily Atkins to Lochmere/Kildaire
3 minutes Lochmere/Kildaire to HT

Total 18 minutes - add one minute to THROW body = 19 minutes

Route Two - minimal traffic encounter -Wallsburg to Lochmere to Lily Atkins to Holly Springs to Fielding to recovery site to HT

3 minutes Wallsburg to Lochmere/Lily Atkins
2 minutes Lochmere/Lily Atkins across HS Rd to Fielding
3 minutes HS Rd/Fielding to recovery site
3 minutes Recovery site to Fielding/HS Rd
2 minutes Fielding/Holly Springs to Lily Atkins/Lochmere
3 minutes Lily Atkins Lochmere to Lochmere/Kildaire
3 minutes Lochmere Kildaire to HT

Total 19 minutes - add one minute to THROW body = 20 minutes



Taking either of these routes - a person would have time to leave the home, dump a body, and go to the store in a maximum of 20 minutes and return back to the house in a total expired time of 28 minutes - roughly.

Two trips to HT - one to dump a body and one just to go to the store total time roughly 48 minutes - add a few minutes to grab a couple of things and one still has time to accomlish all of this in one hour or less.

DING DANG RC!!!! Are you a statistics major???? :eek:

[raisincharlie]

Maybe we could video the route for RC and upload it so there is a visual. I know it has to be hard not to be here 1st hand.

Whatcha think SG should we offer it?

Appreciate the offer but i don't think it is necessary for either of you to go out of your way for this. Thanks though:blowkiss:

[SleuthyGal]

Maybe we could video the route for RC and upload it so there is a visual. I know it has to be hard not to be here 1st hand.

Whatcha think SG should we offer it?

I think he would find that VERY helpful, yes. Also, at 6am, there is less traffic than say, at 9am or 10am, so it might have taken even less time than your supposition, RC.

Of course he didn't have to "catch a flight/limo to the airport" like O.J. so if it took him 20 min, 30 min, 40 min or more it was all possible/doable. As far as I can tell the only 'constraint' is that he is back home by 7am for Nancy to "go running."

[raisincharlie]

DING DANG RC!!!! Are you a statistics major???? :eek:

Compliments of ZOE - lets give her a big hand for taking the drive and being so observant.

[SleuthyGal]

one still has time to accomplish all of this in one hour or less.

What is this 1 hr time constraint you are investigating? Did he say something about a 1 hr window somewhere?

[raisincharlie]

Raisin,

Are you trying to fit the perp's movements that (very) early morning into a set timeframe? And if yes, what is the constraint you're working with (and why)?

I worked with this time frame because it is one no one can argue - per Brads words he was a busy boy between 6 and 7 am. I put this into that time frame for that reason alone.

You can add another 20 minutes for the 4am trip to HT.

[SleuthyGal]

I worked with this time frame because it is one no one can argue - per Brads words he was a busy boy between 6 and 7 am. I fitted this into that for that reason alone.

You can add another 20 minutes for the 4am trip to HT.

Oh clearly. He had a LOT going on that morning. Whenever before in his married life did he make 2 dawn trips, within 30 min, to a grocery store? I would bet just ONCE. And how (in)convenient that it just so happened those 2 trips occurred within the 45 min before his wife goes "missing?" Very.

Not only was he a busy boy between 6am and 7am, I think he was probably 'busy' from about 1am on. No sleep that night!

[momto3kids]

Compliments of ZOE - lets give her a big hand for taking the drive and being so observant.

It might be just be as quick or quicker for BC to have gone down Cary Pkwy to Tryon to Kildaire Farm. It is 4 lanes.
Going thru Lochmere you have a slow speed limit because of all the pedestrians, and my kids hate going thru Lochmere. Tryon & Cary pkwy is pretty quick IMO
Also there is a cut thru many use...New Waverly Place.

Also depends on if he left his home to go to HT or from the dump site to go to HT.

[raisincharlie]

It might be just be as quick or quicker for BC to have gone down Cary Pkwy to Tryon to Kildaire Farm. It is 4 lanes.
Going thru Lochmere you have a slow speed limit because of all the pedestrians, and my kids hate going thru Lochmere. Tryon & Cary pkwy is pretty quick IMO
Also there is a cut thru many use New Waverly Place.

Also depends on if he left his home to go to HT or from the dump site to go to HT.


I can't comment on that since our "driver" didn't go that way - just working with what routes taken.

ETA - however I do believe in my own thinking that the time between 6 and 7 was when Nancy was taken to the recovery site. JMO on it.

[SleuthyGal]

I actually think his 'biggest' mistake was going to the store at all that morning. He must have done it in case someone saw him out and about early that morning--he could say he had to go to the store. However, it's created a whole big hornet's nest cause this is not a typical pattern for him. Now, if he was someone who went to the store early in the morning a couple times a week and had done so for a long time, then this behavior could be seen as just part of a regular pattern of behavior. But nope. Big spotlight shining on this behavior and this behavior *is* unusual for this person at this time of day.

He probably would have been better off assuming no one saw him when he was out so early in that morning....and then stay put at home.

Could the need for laundry detergent have been THAT critical in any crime scene cleanup that he couldn't have waited until later in the day to acquire some?

[momto3kids]

BC stated Waverly Place...why? He didn't live here when HT was in Waverly Place. It was years before he moved here that it was located there, and he might not had even had known that.

As some on here have taught me...when they say something that is not right it might be a clue.

Waverly Place could be the road he cut thru on to get to HT.

[SleuthyGal]

however I do believe in my own thinking that the time between 6 and 7 was when Nancy was taken to the recovery site. JMO on it.

Really? See this surprises me. IF that 4:20am visit to HT happened, then I think the dump would have happened around 4am-ish.

If there was no HT visit at 4:20am then I agree with you on a 6am dump.

But a trip to HT in the 4am hour, if it occurred, doesn't make sense unless he dumps her body around that time; I'm assuming she was dead by 4am so I can't believe he'd leave her body in the house while he went out, and alternatively I can't imagine him driving around and going to HT and leaving her body in the trunk then either. But stranger things have happened, I guess.

[DogWood]

Okay so I will say 8 minutes from Wallsburg Court to HT going across Lochmere - should be conservative enough since we aren't rocket scientists here.

So what we have if a person is to transport a body from Wallsburg Ct to the recovery location - there are two ways to get to that location. One way, vehicular traffic is to be expected. The other way - very minimal vehicular traffic until one goes between Lily Atkins and Fielding on Holly Springs Rd. Keeping in mind our person was moving slow and looking at houses.


Wallsburg Ct to Lochmere to Kildaire to HT - 8 minutes

Disposal routes

Route One - traffic encountered Wallsburg to Cary Pkwy to Holly Springs to Fielding to recovery site to HT

4 minutes Wallsburg to Cary Pkwy to Holly Springs to Fielding
3 minutes Fielding to recovery site
3 minutes recovery site to HS RD/Fielding
2 minutes HS Rd/Fielding to Lily Atkins to Lochmere
3 minutes Lochmere/Lily Atkins to Lochmere/Kildaire
3 minutes Lochmere/Kildaire to HT

Total 18 minutes - add one minute to THROW body = 19 minutes

Route Two - minimal traffic encounter -Wallsburg to Lochmere to Lily Atkins to Holly Springs to Fielding to recovery site to HT

3 minutes Wallsburg to Lochmere/Lily Atkins
2 minutes Lochmere/Lily Atkins across HS Rd to Fielding
3 minutes HS Rd/Fielding to recovery site
3 minutes Recovery site to Fielding/HS Rd
2 minutes Fielding/Holly Springs to Lily Atkins/Lochmere
3 minutes Lily Atkins Lochmere to Lochmere/Kildaire
3 minutes Lochmere Kildaire to HT

Total 19 minutes - add one minute to THROW body = 20 minutes



Taking either of these routes - a person would have time to leave the home, dump a body, and go to the store in a maximum of 20 minutes and return back to the house in a total expired time of 28 minutes - roughly.

Two trips to HT - one to dump a body and one just to go to the store total time roughly 48 minutes - add a few minutes to grab a couple of things and one still has time to accomplish all of this in one hour or less.

Excellent work, RC!

:clap:

Thanks to Zoe as well! :)

Great job!

[maconrich]

Very impressive!

so you're looking at a direct trip -- does that mean you think he knew of the spot he'd put her right off instead of driving around looking for it or something like that?

[raisincharlie]

Really? See this surprises me. IF that 4:20am visit to HT happened, then I think the dump would have happened around 4am-ish.

If there was no HT visit at 4:20am then I agree with you on a 6am dump.

But a trip to HT in the 4am hour, if it occurred, doesn't make sense; I'm assuming she was dead by 4am so I can't believe he'd leave her body in the house while he went out and I can't imagine him driving around and going to HT and leaving her body in the trunk then either. But stranger things have happened, I guess.

He has access to two vehicles and I for one do not believe he used HIS car to transport Nancy anywhere. The 4am trip could have been the perfect excuse to back the X5 into the drive instead of pulling it in. At 4 am it was much less likely someone would notice this subtle difference.

I am however undecided about TOD.

[momto3kids]

I think he took a huge chance to hold on to NC's body until 6 or 7. He could be seen by joggers & walkers, the paper delivery person and also the girls were bound to be getting up. Also Bella was old enough to unlock a door and wander around looking inside and outside.

I think she was murdered within 2 hours of coming home, she started possible rigor, and the 1st thing on his mind was to get her out of the house.

Realized he had blood on him and went straight to the store to get detergent instead of risking not having enough.

[DogWood]

I actually think his 'biggest' mistake was going to the store at all that morning. He must have done it in case someone saw him out and about early that morning--he could say he had to go to the store. However, it's created a whole big hornet's nest cause this is not a typical pattern for him. Now, if he was someone who went to the store early in the morning a couple times a week and had done so for a long time, then this behavior could be seen as just part of a regular pattern of behavior. But nope. Big spotlight shining on this behavior and this behavior *is* unusual for this person at this time of day.

He probably would have been better off assuming no one saw him when he was out so early in that morning....and then stay put at home.

Could the need for laundry detergent have been THAT critical in any crime scene cleanup that he couldn't have waited until later in the day to acquire some?

Personally, I can't see BC going to the store for anything that time in the morning...let alone laundry detergent...unless he was trying to cover for something.

[raisincharlie]

Very impressive!

so you're looking at a direct trip -- does that mean you think he knew of the spot he'd put her right off instead of driving around looking for it or something like that?

I think he was aware enough of his neighborhood to know where there were no street lights and few houses. Not sure they lived in Lochmere for 8 years but they definitely lived there over 4 and a half.

Don't you ladies just hate to get behind us guys on a road ? We are always looking around instead of just driving. :p

[SleuthyGal]

I think he took a huge chance to hold on to NC's body until 6 or 7. One is to be seen by joggers & walkers, the paper delivery person and also the girls were bound to be getting up and the risk he took in holding off in dumping NC. Also Bella was old enough to unlock a door and wander around looking inside and outside.

I think she was murdered within 2 hours of coming home, she started possible rigor, and the 1st thing on his mind was to get her out of the house.

Realized he had blood on him and went straight to the store to get detergent instead of risking not having enough.

Thanks for clarifying. Wow. This just really gives me chills on top of whatever chills I had before. In our little soiree meetup the other day, I commented to the folks there that for some reason these murdering husbands always seem to do some laundry right when they get back.

OJ, David Westerfield, Scott Peterson, and now BC. Only one of those 4 usually did his own laundry and that was because he was single. The rest suddenly got a strong interest in running their washing machine when they got back from wherever they were the same day their intimate partner (or in Westerfield's case, little missing neighbor girl) goes missing and/or is found murdered. And doing laundry does not guarantee removal of DNA. Neither does dry cleaning. And yet these men persist in trying to go that route to clean up.

Until Tide makes a special DNA-stain removal formula, I think burning an item of clothing down to ashes is really the only way to ensure no evidence of DNA. :rolleyes:

[raisincharlie]

Thanks for clarifying. Wow. This just really gives me chills on top of whatever chills I had before. In our little soiree meetup the other day, I commented to the folks there that for some reason these murdering husbands always seem to do some laundry right when they get back.

OJ, David Westerfield, Scott Peterson, and now BC. Only one of those 4 usually did his own laundry and that was because he was single. The rest suddenly got a strong interest in running their washing machine when they got back from wherever they were the same day their intimate partner (or in Westerfield's case, little missing neighbor girl) goes missing and/or is found murdered. And doing laundry does not guarantee removal of DNA. Neither does dry cleaning. And yet these men persist in trying to go that route to clean up.

Until Tide makes a special DNA-stain removal formula, I think burning an item of clothing down to ashes is really the only way to ensure no evidence of DNA. :rolleyes:


Oxyclean or any enzyme based cleaning product will do the job just fine.

[SleuthyGal]

He has access to two vehicles and I for one do not believe he used HIS car to transport Nancy anywhere.

question: is there a cover for the cargo area in a BMW x5? If not and that was the car used to move her body then he would have had to use a cover of some type: tarp, blanket, sheet...something.

I'm assuming of course that he didn't put sunglasses on her and prop her up in the front seat, "Weekend at Bernie's" style, while he drove around. :eek:

(sorry, I know it's not funny....but I have to make myself chuckle a little from time to time cause this case is so depressing).

[maconrich]

I think he was aware enough of his neighborhood to know where there were no street lights and few houses. Not sure they lived in Lochmere for 8 years but they definitely lived there over 4 and a half.

Don't you ladies just hate to get behind us guys on a road ? We are always looking around instead of just driving. :p

LoL! Yep I know I do!! And yes I'm sure he knows the layout good enuf after all that time. Still seems it required either some thinking on his feet or prior thoughts/fantasies of doing it. (I'd go with the fantasies even if it was a heat of the moment/unplanned thing).

[SleuthyGal]

Oxyclean or any enzyme based cleaning product will do the job just fine.

It will?

I've had stains that did not get removed by Oxyclean or by using Nature's Miracle enzymatic solution. Some stains created by me, some created by my dog. It's good stuff, but I haven't found either to work 100% of the time. Then again I've never used it to try and clean up a crime scene so ....

[raisincharlie]

question: is there a cover for the cargo area in a BMW x5? If not and that was the car used to move her body then he would have had to use a cover of some type: tarp, blanket, sheet...something.

I'm assuming of course that he didn't put sunglasses on her and prop her up in the front seat, "Weekend at Bernie's" style, while he drove around. :eek:

(sorry, I know it's not funny....but I have to make myself chuckle a little from time to time cause this case is so depressing).

Weekend at Bernie's might be his favorite movie for all we know.

Read through Zoe's post on the other thread - she gives a very good description of how many people she saw and how the traffic was shortly before 7 am.

[wirehair]

If he knew of the dumping site ahead of time, does that make it premeditated. Surely he couldn't think that clearly if by chance he had just killed someone. Of course he took a big chance that someone out with their dog in the back yard could see him go by. I'm out with one of mine at 5:30 everyone morning and I notice every car that goes down the side road by my house.

[raisincharlie]

It will?

I've had stains that did not get removed by Oxyclean or by using Nature's Miracle enzymatic solution. Some stains created by me, some created by my dog. It's good stuff, but I haven't found either to work 100% of the time. Then again I've never used it to try and clean up a crime scene so ....

Let me see if I can find a particular transcript involving a forensics guy - ME/pathologist - can't even remember his name but he does confirm enzyme based products destroy DNA. Will go hunt for it.

[SleuthyGal]

Weekend at Bernie's might be his favorite movie for all we know.

Read through Zoe's post on the other thread - she gives a very good description of how many people she saw and how the traffic was shortly before 7 am.

I'll go look for Zoe's post.

Any info on whether there is a cargo cover on a BMW x5 or not?

[raisincharlie]

I'll go look for Zoe's post.

Any info on whether there is a cargo cover on a BMW x5 or not?

I saw LE lifting one up in the rear of the X5 in the video I posted the other day.

[raisincharlie]

If he knew of the dumping site ahead of time, does that make it premeditated. Surely he couldn't think that clearly if by chance he had just killed someone. Of course he took a big chance that someone out with their dog in the back yard could see him go by. I'm out with one of mine at 5:30 everyone morning and I notice every car that goes down the side road by my house.

Because he knew of someplace to hide Nancy doesn't indicate premeditation with respect to the murder. It just meant he knew of an isolated spot.

[maconrich]

so he had her body in the car for appx 2 hrs before dumping her? seems the forensic evid would be pretty decent unless he disposed of something he'd place her on during the wait. God forbid either child had gotten up :(

[raisincharlie]

so he had her body in the car for appx 2 hrs before dumping her? seems the forensic evid would be pretty decent unless he disposed of something he'd place her on during the wait. God forbid either child had gotten up :(

I am very undecided about TOD. I'm not much buying the theory he dressed her in running attire after he murdered her. Just my thought, she dressed herself. I have been wrong before however.:p

[maconrich]

I am very undecided about TOD. I'm not much buying the theory he dressed her in running attire after he murdered her. Just my thought, she dressed herself. I have been wrong before however.:p
ok so the trip was while she was sleeping then everything hit the fan at some point around 6ish and things went fast from there. ITA on the jogging clothes and would be extremely surprised if she didn't have on exactly what he said (before he killed her).

[Daphne69]

If he knew of the dumping site ahead of time, does that make it premeditated. Surely he couldn't think that clearly if by chance he had just killed someone. Of course he took a big chance that someone out with their dog in the back yard could see him go by. I'm out with one of mine at 5:30 everyone morning and I notice every car that goes down the side road by my house.

I am not terribly familiar with that end of Cary, but I decided on a whim one night to drive the route from BC's house to the dump site. It was dark and I didn't have the map memorized too well. Still, I was very surprised athow easy it was to "stumble" on to that the dump site neighborhood from his house. I was just guessing at directions and ended up right in front of it.

My point is that if BC did this and it was not premeditated, it's not that far-fetched for him to be going out to get rid of the body and drive by that development and think, "Under construction. Hmm...bet there's some deserted places back there that will take a bit to come across.

[raisincharlie]

ok so the trip was while she was sleeping then everything hit the fan at some point around 6ish and things went fast from there. ITA on the jogging clothes and would be extremely surprised if she didn't have on exactly what he said (before he killed her).

I'm not sure how the 420 trip to HT fits. But both of these people were athletes, early rising was not a stranger to either one I think. Just my gut feeling on this really, but I don't think she was murdered when she came home from the party or even shortly there after. I wish I could tell you why.

[wirehair]

Is there a sign at Holly Springs road saying that there are new home sites back there? I don't think he went driving aimlessly around hoping to stumble on an isolated place.

[Bob&Bob]

Is there a sign at Holly Springs road saying that there are new home sites back there? I don't think he went driving aimlessly around hoping to stumble on an isolated place.

Couldn't tell ya.

[Bob&Bob]

Really? See this surprises me. IF that 4:20am visit to HT happened, then I think the dump would have happened around 4am-ish.

If there was no HT visit at 4:20am then I agree with you on a 6am dump.

But a trip to HT in the 4am hour, if it occurred, doesn't make sense unless he dumps her body around that time; I'm assuming she was dead by 4am so I can't believe he'd leave her body in the house while he went out, and alternatively I can't imagine him driving around and going to HT and leaving her body in the trunk then either. But stranger things have happened, I guess.


For those of you who are new or who are afraid to speak
up because no one will answer your question,
HT means Harris Teeter, which is a grocery store.

[wirehair]

IMO he is very detail oriented. He may have thought about this for weeks. He scouted out places on the internet and then checked out the ones nearby. He might have not planned when; but he had his escape and dump site planned. You don't just stumble on sites where there lots have not been for sale yet. He had to wait until the road was paved so he wouldn't leave tire tracks. He might have initially found it on his bike. Another far out thought... HM.. no hyphen.. was NC friend and yet had an affair with BC. Could he have had another recent or current fling with another friend and she might have helped him by parking down the road and walking in to keep the children while he was on one of his trips before dawn. He might have even told her that NC had run off and one of the kids was sick and he had to find a 24 hour pharmacy or something and stayed gone a very short time while she was at his house.. Now she is maybe too scared to come forward.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm not sure how the 420 trip to HT fits. But both of these people were athletes, early rising was not a stranger to either one I think. Just my gut feeling on this really, but I don't think she was murdered when she came home from the party or even shortly there after. I wish I could tell you why. Well I'm a big believer in following one's 'gut instincts' so I'm sure the answer is marinating somewhere in your subconcious! :wink:

I'm trying to imagine WHY, if NC was still alive and uninjured, he would make a 4:20am trip to HT (again, IF he really did make that visit at that time). Why would he even have been awake at 4am if NC was alive? What kind of plan includes getting up and going to the grocery store to purchase detergent at 4am? It just seems so crazy/illogical to me *if* NC is alive at that point in time. I'm trying to make the leap in logic, but my brain is just not able to go there.

I guess I need absolute/official confirmation of a 4:20am HT visit (either yea or nay) to properly wrap my head around these (new) scenarios and make sense of them.

[SleuthyGal]

I am very undecided about TOD. I'm not much buying the theory he dressed her in running attire after he murdered her. Just my thought, she dressed herself. I have been wrong before however.:p

I'm waiting to see exactly what she was wearing when found. IF she had on an over-the-head style jogging bra (the kind with no hooks/clasps) then IMHO she dressed herself in that attire.

However, if she had running shorts and a shirt, but no jogging bra, then I do not believe she went jogging at all and she may have or may not have dressed herself, but either way, no bra, no jog.

IMHO of course.

[maconrich]

I'm waiting to see exactly what she was wearing when found. IF she had on an over-the-head style jogging bra (the kind with no hooks/clasps) then IMHO she dressed herself in that attire.

However, if she had running shorts and a shirt, but no jogging bra, then I do not believe she went jogging at all and she may have or may not have dressed herself, but either way, no bra, no jog.

IMHO of course.

I'd guess his observational skills re women are good enuf he would have dressed her normally; but it makes more sense for her to have already been dressed. :waitasec:

[wirehair]

Any pictures of him made him look really tired during that time. I expect he never went to sleep. He probably didn't sleep the next night either. He was probably cleaning even more. He knew LE would eventually get a SW and he took more time with his task. He really thought he would have 24 hours at least to get the job done. (If he was the perp)

[wirehair]

MT3K-- Do you think BC would take off with a body in hopes he would stumble on a dumping site without thinking it out first? Maybe that's the time span between NC getting home and the 4:20 HT trip. He could have left then and was driving around looking for a place and then stopped at HT. Maybe he wasn't worried that the girls might wake up.

[Jess]

Is it not today that it will be decided whether the SW will be unsealed ?? Anyone know what time the hearing will be ?

[momto3kids]

MT3K-- Do you think BC would take off with a body in hopes he would stumble on a dumping site without thinking it out first? Maybe that's the time span between NC getting home and the 4:20 HT trip. He could have left then and was driving around looking for a place and then stopped at HT. Maybe he wasn't worried that the girls might wake up.

I've said 2 things from the beginning...

1--if he planned it out and wanted to make it look random he would have gone to the Regency area. Perfect place with all construction, woods, roads for easy accessibility AND NC was known to jog there.

2--unless they were looking for a new home in there (which I don't think so)or had a friend in there, absolutely blows my mind he just happened to know about it.


Personally, BC panicked once he realized she was dead...went on the computer looking for an area to take NC. We've seen how detailed the maps are now...he found the closest place to his home. If he thought it out or planned it he would have gone to Regency IMO.

As for MeadowRidge..My husbands bf has lived 20+ yrs on Holly Springs Road, a few doors down from the entrance of MeadowRidge. They fish in the pond right inside the entrance on Fielding. The only reason my husband knew about the new homes were the trucks passing. My point is this is not the typical new subdivison entrance with new homes being constructed along the road at the entrance.

Sorry..to answer your question...No I don't think he drove around, he went to the computer looking for the closest and quickest area to get to.

[DogWood]

Is it not today that it will be decided whether the SW will be unsealed ?? Anyone know what time the hearing will be ?

Yes, it is today but I'm not sure of the time. This latest report and video from WTVD just say Monday afternoon.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6334284

[raisincharlie]

Yes, it is today but I'm not sure of the time. This latest report and video from WTVD just say Monday afternoon.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6334284

Supposedly 2:30 pm (EST)

[sunflowers]

Thanks for clarifying. Wow. This just really gives me chills on top of whatever chills I had before. In our little soiree meetup the other day, I commented to the folks there that for some reason these murdering husbands always seem to do some laundry right when they get back.

OJ, David Westerfield, Scott Peterson, and now BC. Only one of those 4 usually did his own laundry and that was because he was single. The rest suddenly got a strong interest in running their washing machine when they got back from wherever they were the same day their intimate partner (or in Westerfield's case, little missing neighbor girl) goes missing and/or is found murdered. And doing laundry does not guarantee removal of DNA. Neither does dry cleaning. And yet these men persist in trying to go that route to clean up.

Until Tide makes a special DNA-stain removal formula, I think burning an item of clothing down to ashes is really the only way to ensure no evidence of DNA. :rolleyes:

or throwing all of the clothes worn in the dumpster. makes me think he was cleaning a rug, too, or something in the house that could be thrown in the washer, but would have been obvious to people if no longer in the house.

[raisincharlie]

I'm having a hard time thinking a fellow who lived in that area for as many years as he did was oblivious to the fact, or missed seeing woods on the east side of Holly Springs Road. There are also woods on the west side as one goes south on Holly Springs road. The difference is there is a turn off at Fielding to the east side, turn offs to the west below Lily Atkins and the wooded area south don't seem to exist looking at this aerial.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s198/Mahmooinla/Nancy%20Cooper/aerialhomebodylocation.jpg

The man trained for and participiated in ironman events - he has a bike , over the time he lived there I bet he was quite aware of his surroundings as viewed from a bike or doing his own running.

[sunflowers]

I've said 2 things from the beginning...

1--if he planned it out and wanted to make it look random he would have gone to the Regency area. Perfect place with all construction, woods, roads for easy accessibility AND NC was known to jog there.

2--unless they were looking for a new home in there (which I don't think so)or had a friend in there, absolutely blows my mind he just happened to know about it.


Personally, BC panicked once he realized she was dead...went on the computer looking for an area to take NC. We've seen how detailed the maps are now...he found the closest place to his home. If he thought it out or planned it he would have gone to Regency IMO.

As for MeadowRidge..My husbands bf has lived 20+ yrs on Holly Springs Road, a few doors down from the entrance of MeadowRidge. They fish in the pond right inside the entrance on Fielding. The only reason my husband knew about the new homes were the trucks passing. My point is this is not the typical new subdivison entrance with new homes being constructed along the road at the entrance.

Sorry..to answer your question...No I don't think he drove around, he went to the computer looking for the closest and quickest area to get to.

i know the area well, too, & didn't know about those new houses off in that neighborhood. if he had known somebody through Nancy over there, her friends would know & could be asked. Somehow I don't think so, though.

i don't believe nancy jogged over there, so she was dumped there. if it was brad, somehow he must have either known of that area or was driving around in the middle of the night looking for a spot. but, as momof3kids said, why not drive to regency. i'm guessing he didn't know of the constuctio