Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #23

[chicoliving]

Continue here!

[ncnative]

Tennis date. Someone mentioned Scott Heider as a possibility for tennis date.

Hmmm. Maybe Brad and Scott Heider are in cahoots in this whole thing (murder, alibis, etc.)

Maybe Brad asked Scott to SAY that he had a tennis date with Brad, to cover for Brad. After all, Scott cares enough for Brad to still be friends even after Brad once had an affair with Scott's then wife, Heather H. Metour.

Scott even let Brad bring the girls and spend the night at Scott's after the murder. Scott was quick to make Brad look like a good daddy, telling how Brad "donned a tiara" and "played ponies" at Scott's house that night, after the murder. Trying a little too hard to say good things about Brad as a dad?

Scott and Brad are tight from being in the Ironman triathlons together and running events together, too. Scott might be squeaky clean and as innocent as a rose, or he might help his buddy. Who knows?

[momto3kids]

This appears to be a post by Nancy's dad a few hours after her body was found. I don't know if it's been posted or if it is authentic, but wanted to post this in case it hasn't been seen.


I have been a runner for nearly 40 years. I am proud that my daughter has choosen to persue a sport that provides the kind of friends that only running can, in my opinion. Thank you all for providing the suport that only a running community can!
Thanks for all you've done, from our family.
Garry - Nancy's dad

Posted by garry rentz on July 14, 2008 at 10:47 PM EDT #

[wirehair]

I don't believe that there were any construction workers back in the dumping area since those lots were not for sale yet. None of them were being cleared etc. There might have been some in another section. A trip out after daylight by anyone would be taking a big chance on being seen. People would be out mowing by that time because it is cooler at that time. People could even be running that live in that neighborhood. My vote is for the 4 am - 5 am time. Who knows, he might have driven around for a long time looking for that spot or just thinking and didn't know when the paperman came and didn't want to be seen by him turning into the driveway. He/perp very well could have had the kids with him. JMHO

[mahmoo]

My vote is for the 4 am - 5 am time. Who knows, he might have driven around for a long time looking for that spot or just thinking and didn't know when the paperman came and didn't want to be seen by him turning into the driveway. He/perp very well could have had the kids with him. JMHO

I agree with the 4 am ish time although I don't believe he had the kids with him.........that's why he didn't go very far from home in my opinion.

[perkiomen]

Tennis date. Someone mentioned Scott Heider as a possibility for tennis date.

Hmmm. Maybe Brad and Scott Heider are in cahoots in this whole thing (murder, alibis, etc.)

Maybe Brad asked Scott to SAY that he had a tennis date with Brad, to cover for Brad. After all, Scott cares enough for Brad to still be friends even after Brad once had an affair with Scott's then wife, Heather H. Metour.

Scott even let Brad bring the girls and spend the night at Scott's after the murder. Scott was quick to make Brad look like a good daddy, telling how Brad "donned a tiara" and "played ponies" at Scott's house that night, after the murder. Trying a little too hard to say good things about Brad as a dad?

Scott and Brad are tight from being in the Ironman triathlons together and running events together, too. Scott might be squeaky clean and as innocent as a rose, or he might help his buddy. Who knows?

My thoughts were running along these lines as well.

[wirehair]

me too

[momto3kids]

I don't believe that there were any construction workers back in the dumping area since those lots were not for sale yet. None of them were being cleared etc. There might have been some in another section. A trip out after daylight by anyone would be taking a big chance on being seen. People would be out mowing by that time because it is cooler at that time. People could even be running that live in that neighborhood. My vote is for the 4 am - 5 am time. Who knows, he might have driven around for a long time looking for that spot or just thinking and didn't know when the paperman came and didn't want to be seen by him turning into the driveway. He/perp very well could have had the kids with him. JMHO

But there are homes under construction at the end of Fielding and the stretch before you turn to get to the cul-de-sac.

I went the day after the tape was removed and there was plenty of action going on while I was there. A dump truck kept making runs filled with dirt, turning on (name of street NC was found) in order to back into the area that is going to be the recreation center emptying the dirt. He and I played musical chairs a few times.

I know it isn't a Saturday I went, but I passed at least 6 vehicles along the steet where all the workers could be seen. In other words the shell was just going up :)

If there are workers there on Saturday's he didn't dump her during the daylight, too much activity going on...IMO

[jmflu]

Is he a good enough friend to lie for a murderer, knowing that one day BC will probably be found out, and he will be complicit in the murder himself?

I don't think so. So I'm guessing BC did not ask him to lie for him. I think SH just believes, or believed, that BC could not possibly be guilty. Or at least, he didn't want to turn away from BC right away without all the facts.

[wirehair]

I agree that it had to be done before daylight. All it takes is for 1 person to say they saw the car and oh well. It could have even been a car passing on Holly Springs road as he was waiting to pull out of the subdivision. In the 2 o'clock range he would have risked running into kids parking.

[tarheellvr]

Tennis date. Someone mentioned Scott Heider as a possibility for tennis date.

Hmmm. Maybe Brad and Scott Heider are in cahoots in this whole thing (murder, alibis, etc.)

Maybe Brad asked Scott to SAY that he had a tennis date with Brad, to cover for Brad. After all, Scott cares enough for Brad to still be friends even after Brad once had an affair with Scott's then wife, Heather H. Metour.

Scott even let Brad bring the girls and spend the night at Scott's after the murder. Scott was quick to make Brad look like a good daddy, telling how Brad "donned a tiara" and "played ponies" at Scott's house that night, after the murder. Trying a little too hard to say good things about Brad as a dad?

Scott and Brad are tight from being in the Ironman triathlons together and running events together, too. Scott might be squeaky clean and as innocent as a rose, or he might help his buddy. Who knows?


I've also had these exact thoughts. If he had help, I believe it had to be Scott.

[SleuthyGal]

well you know what they say...

"A friend will help you move; a REAL FRIEND will help you move a body!"

[perkiomen]

well you know what they say...

"A friend will help you move; a REAL FRIEND will help you move a body!"

You are soooo bad :)

[ncnative]

I've talked to three people in the last week, one of which seems to think he had an accomplice in some way. Either in alibis or what, I don't know. It was a lady who knew Nancy, an older woman whose name I didn't ask. But she did know Nancy.

[EntreNous]

well you know what they say...

"A friend will help you move; a REAL FRIEND will help you move a body!"

I'm glad you said it instead of me.

I was too :chicken:.

[jmflu]

I've talked to three people in the last week, one of which seems to think he had an accomplice in some way. Either in alibis or what, I don't know. It was a lady who knew Nancy, an older woman whose name I didn't ask. But she did know Nancy.

An older woman told you this, or an older woman might have been an accomplice?

[ncnative]

Older woman TOLD.

[mahmoo]

I've talked to three people in the last week, one of which seems to think he had an accomplice in some way. Either in alibis or what, I don't know. It was a lady who knew Nancy, an older woman whose name I didn't ask. But she did know Nancy.

Wowser :eek:......I was gonna go to bed but this caught my attention :confused:

[Star12]

I've talked to three people in the last week, one of which seems to think he had an accomplice in some way. Either in alibis or what, I don't know. It was a lady who knew Nancy, an older woman whose name I didn't ask. But she did know Nancy.

Did she actually have any information, or was it just her opinion.

[ncnative]

I don't know. You know, everyone thinks they know the real story. She seemed convinced along with the other two, but then they could've all been high on Geritol.

If you don't know what Geritol is, you're not old yet.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm sure just about everyone has a theory or 2 in their heads.

[momto3kids]

I have been reading the articles over today, listening to news clips and reading the affidavits again. I have to ask what did the police do on Saturday the 12th at the Cooper's house for the many hours they were there?

[SleuthyGal]

How long were they there?

I imagine they were talking to people who could help put together some kind of timeline, getting a description, pictures, interviews, as well as looking around. They tend to take their time on things.

[momto3kids]

Police were there until 10:30/11:00...many hours it appears. Close to 8 hours?

[SleuthyGal]

Well depending on how many were there and if they had to call for assistance on some things...it can take time to get people to their assignments.

When my neighbor passed away suddenly there were 6 or 7 of CPD's finest hanging out in her driveway, in front of her house, doing whatever it was they were doing (waiting for the coroner, waiting for next-of-kin, etc, etc). They were there a total of 3 or 4 hours and that was a fairly simple thing--heart attack/dead in bed. So in a 'missing person' case it could get complicated, yes?

Plus all the looking around, searching, looking to see if anything is amiss, filling out paperwork, interviewing 'witnesses'/friends, etc, etc.

[momto3kids]

Isn't this also when they took NC purse from the SUV? I could have sworn this occured then. But I just found it didn't occur on Saturday.

[SleuthyGal]

Isn't this also when they took NC purse from the SUV? I could have sworn this occured then. But I just found it didn't occur on Saturday.

I thought they took it then but I don't know...

[momto3kids]

This is what I thought until this evening when I was looking thru everything for the 10th time...(it feels like it) I noticed it was Monday they took her purse. They removed it on the 14th. What was her purse doing in the car on Monday?

This now makes me think it was triggered by BC doing the search when he was seen and the jacket being on when he said he found the shovel....

[SleuthyGal]

This is what I thought until this evening when I was looking thru everything for the 10th time...(it feels like it) I noticed it was Monday they took her purse. They removed it on the 14th. What was her purse doing in the car on Monday?

This now makes me think it was triggered by BC doing the search when he was seen and the jacket being on when he said he found the shovel....

It makes you think what was triggered? The cops taking NC's purse out of her SUV?

Is it possible the report has the wrong date on it? Is it possible the report says the 14th but it actually occurred on that Sat the 12th? One can't assume anything as far as documents go when it comes to dates... can you post a link to the report you read that shows this date?

[momto3kids]

http://www.newsobserver.com/141/story/1141867.html


Both of these are under An Uneasy Feeling....

About 3:45 p.m. Monday, police searched the couple's BMW sedan and BMW SUV. They also removed a Louis Vuitton purse from one vehicle.

Also this, I didn't know...Adam said the two children stayed at her house Monday.

[SleuthyGal]

The thing is, this is not an official report...it's a news report and the accuracy of it is not verified. News reporters often get little details wrong--for instance in today's newscast they said "friends of Nancy's created a memorial at JJ to celebrate her Bday." But that's not accurate because the people who did it never met Nancy and thus were not friends of hers--just community members. A small detail, but an important distinction.

I'm not saying this article is incorrect in this particular case, but I'd still want to see some kind of official paperwork or get some kind of official verification that shows what was removed on what day/time before I came to any conclusions and assigned any particular meaning.

The problem with trying to 'sleuth' in this and other cases is that until/unless you see source material or get some kind of official word, you don't know if someone got some details mixed up or something.

[SleuthyGal]

Also, as of 3:45pm on Monday her body had not yet been found AND LE had not yet obtained any SW's. That might not matter, but other than a cursory looksee I don't know what they could have done without SWs.

[momto3kids]

I totally agree..that is why it took me by surprise to see this. If it is true that they searched the vehicles on Monday then it is hard to understand what the purse was doing out there for 3 days.

The other surprise by the article is JA kept the girls Monday afternoon. With her being the one who called the LE I am rather surprised he would consider it because of the type person he is and the anger I would have thought he had towards her.

[SleuthyGal]

I'm sure we'll get more illumination on this at some point...

as for me I'm exhausted, tomorrow is a work day, and I'm off to bed!

g'night!

[Just the Fax]

Today is Grand Jury day for CPD.

Its been nearly 6 weeks w/ no arrest.
DNA analysis can take months.
Plus, the DA will want time to review the CPD case before pulling the trigger.

[ncnative]

The thing is, this is not an official report...it's a news report and the accuracy of it is not verified. News reporters often get little details wrong--for instance in today's newscast they said "friends of Nancy's created a memorial at JJ to celebrate her Bday." But that's not accurate because the people who did it never met Nancy and thus were not friends of hers--just community members. A small detail, but an important distincti.

Sleuthy is right. The news reporter did get that detail wrong. "Friends of Nancy Cooper" did NOT create "...a memorial at Java Jive to celebrate her Bday."

No, indeed. *I* alone created a memorial at Java Jive, spent two days and several hundred dollars of my own money, MY CHOICE, in honor of Nancy's memory and in honor of her birthday that she never was able to celebrate here on this earth.

The news reporter had no way of knowing this because I didn't want to be named. No one asked me anyway. I don't mind if people think the celebration at Java Jive was put together by friends. I never knew Nancy. I live near her, though. I wanted to do something for her and my community, as well as do something that brings forward the www.websleuths.com community. There are so many on the forum at www.websleuths.com who care and add their personal experiences and knowledge of this case, as well as people worldwide who post at Websleuths regarding this murder and Michelle Young's murder--another woman in our community here.

I did, and I am happy with that. No name of mine is needed. The celebration did what it was meant to do by me: bring the community together in awareness of Nancy's birthday to remember her and to remember that there is still a murderer out there. Most of all, it is meant to gather the book of birthday wishes from people who come in to write in it, as well as the children whom I hope will draw their little pictures in the children's drawing pages, so that I can send all of that to Nancy's family.

I won't even be there to watch the celebration when the news folks show up today around 4 PM. I will be at home. *I* am not the important one in this event. No one knows me or needs me. I have done what I meant to do and that's it. Now to watch people enjoy it, I hope. I know that it isn't professional looking, and the place was HECK to try and find a focal point or space to put anything. Did what I had to. Thanks to Sherry, the owner of Java Jive because she knew Nancy and allowed me to "mess up" her store for Nancy's birthday.

Java Jive in Lochmere will always be a warm connection for our community. Besides, I am now dependent upon frappes with full fat/full sugar, whipped cream, and lemon poppy seed cake.

[ncnative]

I will add to my post above, that other Websleuths may have come in the Java Jive shop to contribute photos to this celebration. Most of all, Topsail Girl is the one who contacted the TV media. She must have connections! Thanks to you Topsail Girl. MomOf3Kids, SleuthyGal and others are helping behind the scenes, from what I've read here. I do hope that someone will speak at the news gathering today. Sleuthy?? I do not do public speaking. Not since college when I had to do it to graduate and nearly croaked of fright.

So, in the end, *I* alone did not do all of this myself.

Websleuths are hopefully adding to this celebration, now that I am out of the picture.

[CyberPro]

Sleuthy is right. The news reporter did get that detail wrong. "Friends of Nancy Cooper" did NOT create "...a memorial at Java Jive to celebrate her Bday."

No, indeed. *I* alone created a memorial at Java Jive, spent two days and several hundred dollars of my own money, MY CHOICE, in honor of Nancy's memory and in honor of her birthday that she never was able to celebrate here on this earth.

The news reporter had no way of knowing this because I didn't want to be named. No one asked me anyway. I don't mind if people think the celebration at Java Jive was put together by friends. I never knew Nancy. I live near her, though. I wanted to do something for her and my community, as well as do something that brings forward the www.websleuths.com community. There are so many on the forum at www.websleuths.com who care and add their personal experiences and knowledge of this case, as well as people worldwide who post at Websleuths regarding this murder and Michelle Young's murder--another woman in our community here.

I did, and I am happy with that. No name of mine is needed. The celebration did what it was meant to do by me: bring the community together in awareness of Nancy's birthday to remember her and to remember that there is still a murderer out there. Most of all, it is meant to gather the book of birthday wishes from people who come in to write in it, as well as the children whom I hope will draw their little pictures in the children's drawing pages, so that I can send all of that to Nancy's family.

I won't even be there to watch the celebration when the news folks show up today around 4 PM. I will be at home. *I* am not the important one in this event. No one knows me or needs me. I have done what I meant to do and that's it. Now to watch people enjoy it, I hope. I know that it isn't professional looking, and the place was HECK to try and find a focal point or space to put anything. Did what I had to. Thanks to Sherry, the owner of Java Jive because she knew Nancy and allowed me to "mess up" her store for Nancy's birthday.

Java Jive in Lochmere will always be a warm connection for our community. Besides, I am now dependent upon frappes with full fat/full sugar, whipped cream, and lemon poppy seed cake.

NCNative,

While you might not have known NC while she was alive, you have shown yourself to be a friend to her all the same. You had the idea of putting up a wreath to begin with, and it sort of morphed into the birthday memorial. I think you did an outstanding job. I acknowledge the assistance of the other folks who are helping, and I think the overall effect will be tremendous.

I live nearby, but not in Lochmere. I have driven past JJ on occasion, but never visited there. I might have to change that today. I do not want to deal with the media on this issue, not because I would always avoid that, I used to be a DJ on a radio station, and surely not because I am worried about BC, but like you, I feel that the focus should be on NC, and this memorial shows this to be the case.

I tip my hat to you for your efforts!

CyberPro

[fran]

I second that!

:clap::clap:

fran

[reddress58]

I totally agree..that is why it took me by surprise to see this. If it is true that they searched the vehicles on Monday then it is hard to understand what the purse was doing out there for 3 days.

The other surprise by the article is JA kept the girls Monday afternoon. With her being the one who called the LE I am rather surprised he would consider it because of the type person he is and the anger I would have thought he had towards her.
That would blow our theroy of JA seeing the purse and/or phone in NC's car. There is no way she would have allowed anyone to leave it there, or she would at least have brought it to LE's or someone's attention.

[Roy23]

I think we will find out a great deal more soon. I am ready for justice.

[Star12]

I think we will find out a great deal more soon. I am ready for justice.

What makes you say that, Roy23? What will we be finding out about? Do you have some inside information you can share with us?

[Roy23]

What makes you say that, Roy23? What will we be finding out about? Do you have some inside information you can share with us?

No inside information here. Maybe the SW will be unsealed this week.

[ncnative]

Roy23, I love me some unsealed search warrants! Bring em on, baby. I can't wait. I really prefer arrests, though.

[jmflu]

Roy23, I love me some unsealed search warrants! Bring em on, baby. I can't wait. I really prefer arrests, though.

Hear hear, NCNative dear!

[Anderson]

NCNative,

While you might not have known NC while she was alive, you have shown yourself to be a friend to her all the same. You had the idea of putting up a wreath to begin with, and it sort of morphed into the birthday memorial. I think you did an outstanding job. I acknowledge the assistance of the other folks who are helping, and I think the overall effect will be tremendous.

I live nearby, but not in Lochmere. I have driven past JJ on occasion, but never visited there. I might have to change that today. I do not want to deal with the media on this issue, not because I would always avoid that, I used to be a DJ on a radio station, and surely not because I am worried about BC, but like you, I feel that the focus should be on NC, and this memorial shows this to be the case.

I tip my hat to you for your efforts!

CyberPro

Congratulations! This was an outstanding effort:clap::clap::clap:.

NCNative, I think you did an absolutely amazing job! :blowkiss: SG, TOPS and all of the other planners from the java jive thread also deserve a great deal of credit.

[Skittles]

Sorry, this is a little out of sequence, but I wanted to close a loop from last week's discussion. SleuthyGal and I confirmed that the dumpster outside LTF is in the spot I identified on the satellite photo, and it was not locked when we were there on Sunday afternoon.

Here's a link to the post with the photo
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2511386&postcount=646

Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program....

[Topsail Girl]

There is a new thread for birthday wishes for Nancy. I will c&p thm and take them with me this afternoon to include in the guest book and cards and pictures going to Nancy's family.

[Roy23]

Roy23, I love me some unsealed search warrants! Bring em on, baby. I can't wait. I really prefer arrests, though.


Oh yeah, I forgot. It is next week before they could be unsealed. :furious:

[Topsail Girl]

Oh yeah, I forgot. It is next week before they could be unsealed. :furious:


Roy would you mind posting a birthday wish for Nancy so I can get to page two of well wishes, please. Anyone else here please go post a wish for Nancy's birthday.

[Roy23]

Roy would you mind posting a birthday wish for Nancy so I can get to page two of well wishes, please. Anyone else here please go post a wish for Nancy's birthday.


will do.

[Topsail Girl]

thanks!!!

[EntreNous]

Done, Tops. Thank you for doing this!

[momto3kids]

Tidbit....today, LTF BC resumes is todays word...

[jmflu]

Tidbit....today, LTF BC resumes is todays word...

Huh? You mean he went back to LTF for the first time since he murdered his wife?

[fran]

Huh? You mean he went back to LTF for the first time since he murdered his wife?

:eek:

[Jess]

And on her birthday !:furious:

[reddress58]

And on her birthday !:furious:
No, Jess, not necessarily on her birthday. Several of us WS posters heard from a reliable source today that BC has resumed working out at Lifetime Fitness. No dates were given, just the word "recently".

[SleuthyGal]

I heard it too. It's from a reliable source.

[DogWood]

Media appeal sealing of Cooper search warrants

WRAL and the News & Observer appealed Monday a week after a judge ordered three search warrants in the Nancy Cooper case to stay sealed until Sept. 2.

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/3431326/

[Star12]

Media appeal sealing of Cooper search warrants

WRAL and the News & Observer appealed Monday a week after a judge ordered three search warrants in the Nancy Cooper case to stay sealed until Sept. 2.

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/3431326/

Oh, crumb, DogWood. Wish you hadn't said that.

[DogWood]

Oh, crumb, DogWood. Wish you hadn't said that.

Sorry, Star12. I'll go back to :read:. lol

It just amazes me the media is all over this and it appears they have given WCSO and the DA a free pass with regard to the MY case.

I wonder if it's an attempt to have Judge Stevens think twice about resealing them on Sept. 2?

[DogWood]

Friends remember Cooper on her 35th birthday

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/3431557/

Here's AL's video report from today. (I finally got it to play.)

[Roy23]

Sorry, Star12. I'll go back to :read:. lol

It just amazes me the media is all over this and it appears they have given WCSO and the DA a free pass with regard to the MY case.

I wonder if it's an attempt to have Judge Stevens think twice about resealing them on Sept. 2?

I think your idea is a bullseye. It is all about next week.

[jmflu]

Friends remember Cooper on her 35th birthday

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/3431557/

Here's AL's video report from today. (I finally got it to play.)

Brilliant! Great job, I am impressed! And the place looked great, thanks to NCNative, and all those who jumped in to contribute. I was glad to hear Websleuths finally mentioned.

[raisincharlie]

This is what I thought until this evening when I was looking thru everything for the 10th time...(it feels like it) I noticed it was Monday they took her purse. They removed it on the 14th. What was her purse doing in the car on Monday?

This now makes me think it was triggered by BC doing the search when he was seen and the jacket being on when he said he found the shovel....

The good news - LE was back withn 36 hours with a warrant to go through the house and the cars for a more detailed search. Makes one wonder what they saw on Monday, if they ever unseal the warrant for the residence, guess we will have an idea.

[Star12]

Sorry, Star12. I'll go back to :read:. lol

It just amazes me the media is all over this and it appears they have given WCSO and the DA a free pass with regard to the MY case.

I wonder if it's an attempt to have Judge Stevens think twice about resealing them on Sept. 2?

well, an appeal isn't something extraordinarily unusual, is it?

:::sigh::: how long would an appeal like this take?

[raisincharlie]

Sorry, Star12. I'll go back to :read:. lol

It just amazes me the media is all over this and it appears they have given WCSO and the DA a free pass with regard to the MY case.

I wonder if it's an attempt to have Judge Stevens think twice about resealing them on Sept. 2?

A shot over the bow - fair warning - if sealed again there is going to be another fight to unseal them. We're still here Judge - not going anywhere soon.

[momto3kids]

http://www.newsobserver.com/141/story/1141867.html


Under An Uneasy Feeling....

About 3:45 p.m. Monday, police searched the couple's BMW sedan and BMW SUV. They also removed a Louis Vuitton purse from one vehicle.


Does anyone have any link to show the purse was actually taken on Saturday? I really thought it was Saturday it was taken but can't locate where it was said. Monday is all I come up with. Monday, 3 days later? in the vehicle? This has me :waitasec:

Also for anyone who knows...is it normal for a missing person case to have divers in the lake the very next day, approx 12 hrs later, before the paths and trails are even searched?

[DogWood]

well, an appeal isn't something extraordinarily unusual, is it?

:::sigh::: how long would an appeal like this take?

I don't think so...

My guess is that was filed for them to have something to come back on if they are not unsealed on Sept. 2.

..."the media attorneys assert that the Wake County district attorney has not made an adequate case for sealing the warrants."

If CW makes a better argument on Sept. 2, they still have this appeal filed on the first hearing?

I'm not sure. Anyone else?

[SleuthyGal]

I don't know what 'normal' is. Is it 'normal' for anyone to go missing in Cary? LE must have gotten some info or had a feeling that she may have been near water...maybe drowned? Who knows.

[DogWood]

A shot over the bow - fair warning - if sealed again there is going to be another fight to unseal them. We're still here Judge - not going anywhere soon.

Exactly!

I think we all want to know what so compelling that CW was in Judge Stephens' kitchen at 2:30 am, requesting the seal before the warrants were even executed.

[momto3kids]

I don't know what 'normal' is. Is it 'normal' for anyone to go missing in Cary? LE must have gotten some info or had a feeling that she may have been near water...maybe drowned? Who knows.

The body of water searched (I know of) is the one that doesn't have the jogging/walking trail around it. It is the one that you can back up to and has a dock, or private docks. I thought the divers went out on Monday after a day of searching, but see it was also on Sunday...is this another sign by the LE of possible foul play? :confused:

[raisincharlie]

Exactly!

I think we all want to know what so compelling that CW was in Judge Stephens' kitchen at 2:30 am, requesting the seal before the warrants were even executed.

Had to be pretty compelling to go outside of protocol - written request for why the warrants should be sealed - the DA was wanting to move very quickly for some reason.

[DogWood]

Not sure this helps at all, Mom.

"Cooper's husband, who works at Cisco Systems, spoke to reporters from the News & Observer just after police finished searching his two BMWs and seizing a Louis Vuitton purse."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5378538&page=1

[raisincharlie]

The body of water searched (I know of) is the one that doesn't have the jogging/walking trail around it. It is the one that you can back up to and has a dock, or private docks. I thought the divers went out on Monday after a day of searching, but see it was also on Sunday...is this another sign by the LE of possible foul play? :confused:

Not sure you can say exactly that Mt3K - have seen this done in other missing persons cases while searches are ongoing. LE has to make as much effort as possible to find a person reported missing while at the same time reveiwing data received/not received and making a judgement about the possibility of foul play. The lack of confirmed sightings of Nancy most likely triggered some definitive response.

[jmflu]

I picked up one of those fliers from Java Jive if anyone was interested. I think there was some discussion about it a while back. Or maybe it was just of the one when she was missing.

[DogWood]

Had to be pretty compelling to go outside of protocol - written request for why the warrants should be sealed - the DA was wanting to move very quickly for some reason.

True.

That's one more reason I think the appeal was put on the record. According to the WRAL article, his reason for having them stay sealed was pretty lame?

Why would someone who went outside of proptcol make a lame excuse for having them stay sealed on the first round?

[raisincharlie]

True.

That's one more reason I think the appeal was put on the record. According to the WRAL article, his reason for having them stay sealed was pretty lame?

Why would someone who went outside of proptcol make a lame excuse for having them stay sealed on the first round?

I was wondering why the DA's office grouped all three warrants together in their motion - they kinda stepped in it with that approach IMO.

[raisincharlie]

True.

That's one more reason I think the appeal was put on the record. According to the WRAL article, his reason for having them stay sealed was pretty lame?

Why would someone who went outside of proptcol make a lame excuse for having them stay sealed on the first round?

From the link you posted earlier - I noticed Sheriff Harrison showed up today - hmmmm - WCSO still assisting on the case I wonder ? Must be I think.

[Topsail Girl]

From the link you posted earlier - I noticed Sheriff Harrison showed up today - hmmmm - WCSO still assisting on the case I wonder ? Must be I think.

Hey RC I don't know if the WCSO is still assisting since it was in the city limits of Cary. I did email him and ask him if he could to please come by for a short minute. Of course the minute he walked up Amanda was there with the camera LOL. Whatever the reason he came - I'm so glad he did. I will be honest and say that everytime I have ever emailed him and asked him to participate in an event (specifically till today it was Michelle Young) he has ALWAYS shown up. He is a wonderful man. People can call him Barney Fife all they want but that man is dead set on catching Nancy and Michelle's killer. He's as country as they come but I am proud that he is the sheriff of my county. I'm NOT saying he came because I asked him - but news reports got to him and emails got to him. He made a point to be there and to speak - that speaks volumes to me. :)

[SleuthyGal]

He is a very nice/polite man. He made a point of introducing himself to everyone there. It was great to have him there--that was a nice surprise!

[Topsail Girl]

He is a very nice/polite man. He made a point of introducing himself to everyone there. It was great to have him there--that was a nice surprise!


Indeed it was. Did I mention he was my hero? He seems like a Barney Fife but that man is relentless!!! I just love him!!!!!

[SleuthyGal]

I can see why! He is a dedicated public servant who obviously cares about the community and wants to see justice for all the victims and their families. I was impressed by him.

[Topsail Girl]

I'm outta here to grab some dinner - I still haven't eaten!! I loved seeing all of you today and thanks so much for all the support from the members here!!! I'll be back to chat tomorrow. Just a few more days and maybe we will know more from the warrants. Everyone keep the faith that this POS will be arrested soon. Take care fellow posters!!!

[raisincharlie]

Does anyone have any link to show the purse was actually taken on Saturday? I really thought it was Saturday it was taken but can't locate where it was said. Monday is all I come up with. Monday, 3 days later? in the vehicle? This has me :waitasec:

Also for anyone who knows...is it normal for a missing person case to have divers in the lake the very next day, approx 12 hrs later, before the paths and trails are even searched?

Mt3K,

Have you heard by any chance if either Max or Axle were with any of the initial responding units on Saturday?

[momto3kids]

Mt3K,

Have you heard by any chance if either Max or Axle were with any of the initial responding units on Saturday?
You mean on Sunday? Explain Max or AXle...sorry

[raisincharlie]

You mean on Sunday? Explain Max or AXle...sorry

Max and Axle are Cary PD LE k-9 units. No I meant Saturday - if you know or have heard. Seems like a natural to bring them for a missing person.

[SleuthyGal]

G'night Topsail!

I have to do some homework this week and reread all the affidavits I read before plus go through BC's and SH's. I'm not as up on the timeline as I need to be/want to be. A lot of details to absorb.

[SleuthyGal]

Max and Axle are Cary PD LE k-9 units. No I meant Saturday - if you know or have heard. Seems like a natural to bring them for a missing person.

Awwwwwwwww. I'd like to meet them!

[momto3kids]

Max and Axle are Cary PD LE k-9 units. No I meant Saturday - if you know or have heard. Seems like a natural to bring them for a missing person.
Yes, police K-9 and the National Guard came in...I am looking for the article that states the divers also came the 1st day of the search...
I have so many here...still looking.

[momto3kids]

G'night Topsail!

I have to do some homework this week and reread all the affidavits I read before plus go through BC's and SH's. I'm not as up on the timeline as I need to be/want to be. A lot of details to absorb.
That's what I did this weekend. I found a few interesting points in them that I had not seen before.

[raisincharlie]

Yes, police K-9 and the National Guard came in...I am looking for the article that states the divers also came the 1st day of the search...
I have so many here...still looking.

I have seen the articles that there were k-9 units brought in but I am more concerned about the first response on the 12th following the 911 call.

I know also Brad was sitting on the curb asking why there were no dogs - guess he didn't know, aye ?

[momto3kids]

I have seen the articles that there were k-9 units brought in but I am more concerned about the first response on the 12th following the 911 call.

I know also Brad was sitting on the curb asking why there were no dogs - guess he didn't know, aye ?
I haven't seen anything about the 12th. I was speaking about Sunday the 13th....National Guard,K-9, and divers.

I think I am to read between the lines on this aye??:waitasec:

[Star12]

Yes, police K-9 and the National Guard came in...I am looking for the article that states the divers also came the 1st day of the search...
I have so many here...still looking.

Not sure of the day, but in one of the pressers Chief Bazemore did say, in response to a question, that dogs had been brought out.

And in today's report - one of them - was prior news footage of the boats. So it's out there somewhere on WRAL. Sorry I can't be more help, Mom, I'm sleepy and on my way to bed.

[raisincharlie]

I haven't seen anything about the 12th. I was speaking about Sunday the 13th....National Guard,K-9, and divers.

I think I am to read between the lines on this aye??:waitasec:

No - no between the lines - I was just curious if you have heard anyone comment about a k-9 unit arriving at the residence around 3 pm on the 12th during the initial response. Not being enigmatic - just curious.

[momto3kids]

Not sure of the day, but in one of the pressers Chief Bazemore did say, in response to a question, that dogs had been brought out.

And in today's report - one of them - was prior news footage of the boats. So it's out there somewhere on WRAL. Sorry I can't be more help, Mom, I'm sleepy and on my way to bed.

Thanks Star...I am going thru my history to see if I can find the link...

[momto3kids]

No - no between the lines - I was just curious if you have heard anyone comment about a k-9 unit arriving at the residence around 3 pm on the 12th during the initial response. Not being enigmatic - just curious.
I haven't heard a thing about the 12th. I saw where MM stated about BC asking about the search dogs while he sat on the curb. I don't know what is typical in a situation like this. Maybe a child vs adult would warrant dogs immediately? I have no idea.

Did the LE surmise something was not right and this was not a lost or injured jogger, IDK?

If I hear any different I will let you know.

[momto3kids]

wral is live now at JJ

It was Adam Owens reporting tonight live at JJ..it had a segment of the interview with JA and HP. It showed Star12 in the background also.

[raisincharlie]

I haven't heard a thing about the 12th. I saw where MM stated about BC asking about the search dogs while he sat on the curb. I don't know what is typical in a situation like this. Maybe a child vs adult would warrant dogs immediately? I have no idea.

Did the LE surmise something was not right and this was not a lost or injured jogger, IDK?

If I hear any different I will let you know.

Ok - thanks, appreciate it. :)

[SleuthyGal]

wral is live now at JJ

It was Adam Owens reporting tonight live at JJ..it had a segment of the interview with JA and HP.

Ahhh I missed it. Will have to catch it online then.

[CyberPro]

Not sure you can say exactly that Mt3K - have seen this done in other missing persons cases while searches are ongoing. LE has to make as much effort as possible to find a person reported missing while at the same time reveiwing data received/not received and making a judgement about the possibility of foul play. The lack of confirmed sightings of Nancy most likely triggered some definitive response.

RC,

I know that you have more experience in these matters than I do, but historically, I have never heard of divers being brought in unless there were indications that someone could be in the body of water.

Even when there is a highly suspected drowning, they usually drag first, then send in divers, which is just the reverse of what they should be doing! I am a SCUBA Diver, and dragging would stir up all kinds of muck, not to mention possibly screw up any evidence that might be visible, by the time they are finished with that, divers are working by feel, cause they could not see their hands in front of their masks with all the mud and slit being moved around.

I was at JJ today and met several of the sleuthers, this was the first I had heard about divers in the water at all, and IMO that was early, and not in a spot that I would have expected them to be looking, given her proclivities for running around Regency Park, which also has a fairly large body of water.

CyberPro

[reddress58]

Not sure if I did this right, but here is the 11:00 report on WRAL:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/3432434/

[reddress58]

:Banane45:Would someone please remind me NOT to drink coffee after 3 PM!! ::poke: (In case you're wondering what I'm doing here):online:

The birthday party/memorial to "our Nancy" was a great success. I got the same feeling as Top & others about the Sheriff. He is passionate about his community regardless of what LE agency is handling a case. I believe he was there, RC, only to show support. He did mention that sometimes tidbits can be gleaned from these types of gatherings, but he wasn't asking questions and didn't appear to hang around to listen to our chat. I was so impressed with the time he took to explain LE's hands can be tied for legal reasons. He understands our frustrations in waiting for resolution.

[SueY]

Kudos to all who helped keep Nancy's memory alive on her birthday today (yesterday). As an ex-Edmontonian this case is close to my heart. Thank you all.

[maconrich]

Does anyone have any link to show the purse was actually taken on Saturday? I really thought it was Saturday it was taken but can't locate where it was said. Monday is all I come up with. Monday, 3 days later? in the vehicle? This has me :waitasec:

Also for anyone who knows...is it normal for a missing person case to have divers in the lake the very next day, approx 12 hrs later, before the paths and trails are even searched?

I was re-reading the first thread earlier and there's a link to an article from the 14th that mentions the purse:

http://www.newsobserver.com:80/news/story/1140988.html


The paragraph says:Cary police said Monday that Brad Cooper was cooperating, answering questions and allowing them to search his house and cars. About 3:45 p.m. Monday, police searched the couple’s BMW sedan and BMW SUV. They also removed a Louis Vuitton purse from one vehicle.

(this was their prior to SW search)

There's also an interesting post (in the thread) about a search of/around the water on the 14th. I don't remember catching it before -- possibly because it was during the same time frame that Mom made her first post :eek:

The search info is in the first post on the page (post 231):
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67337&page=11

[fran]

FWIW, IMHO, I believe the purse being in the car as late as Monday the 14th, indicates it was part of the 'staging.'

I base that on the fact the area was under alert for car break ins. NO ONE would leave their purse in their car purposely.

JMHO
fran

[raisincharlie]

RC,

I know that you have more experience in these matters than I do, but historically, I have never heard of divers being brought in unless there were indications that someone could be in the body of water.

Even when there is a highly suspected drowning, they usually drag first, then send in divers, which is just the reverse of what they should be doing! I am a SCUBA Diver, and dragging would stir up all kinds of muck, not to mention possibly screw up any evidence that might be visible, by the time they are finished with that, divers are working by feel, cause they could not see their hands in front of their masks with all the mud and slit being moved around.

I was at JJ today and met several of the sleuthers, this was the first I had heard about divers in the water at all, and IMO that was early, and not in a spot that I would have expected them to be looking, given her proclivities for running around Regency Park, which also has a fairly large body of water.

CyberPro

Perhaps you answered your own question. Possible they were not looking for a body but something.

[CyberPro]

Perhaps you answered your own question. Possible they were not looking for a body but something.

:eek::waitasec::clap: Good point, I had not thought of it that way before! Man, that puts a completely different spin on that! Wowzer!

CyberPro

[Topsail Girl]

That something being a weapon possibly? Something he beat her with? Or strangled her with? Yeah, a whole new spin indeed..

[raisincharlie]

:eek::waitasec::clap: Good point, I had not thought of it that way before! Man, that puts a completely different spin on that! Wowzer!

CyberPro


Any idea of how deep that little lake is and how much surface area it covers ?

[raisincharlie]

That something being a weapon possibly? Something he beat her with? Or strangled her with? Yeah, a whole new spin indeed..

I have no idea really. It is possible someone reported seeing someone on the lake dumping something - may have been totally unrelated. But LE would have been remiss if they did not check it. I have seen dive teams take advantage of such situations - not meaning that bad - excellent training and they will normally volunteer to do so for the experience.

[momto3kids]

WTVD stated this....

A search team went back and forth across the lake to see if they could find anything that will tell them where she is.

[momto3kids]

Also off MYNC.com

Since then, it's been a frantic search with police rescue divers
checking nearby lakes and dozens of volunteers covering miles of pathways.

I know on Monday afternoon the search went to Johnson Lake, and Lake Wheeler. MM told me this himself when I checked in to get another area to search.

[raisincharlie]

WTVD stated this....

A search team went back and forth across the lake to see if they could find anything that will tell them where she is.

Can't be very deep then, and has good depth visibility, if it was a surface search team. Seems routine to me.

[raisincharlie]

Also off MYNC.com

Since then, it's been a frantic search with police rescue divers
checking nearby lakes and dozens of volunteers covering miles of pathways.

I know on Monday afternoon the search went to Johnson Lake, and Lake Wheeler. MM told me this himself when I checked in to get another area to search.

These two lakes indicate, to me anyhow, an admission to a suspicion of foul play. Based on distance from the home and the plans Nancy had for the day - too far for a simple one hour run. Heider lives very close to Lake Johnston.

[momto3kids]

Can't be very deep then, and has good depth visibility, if it was a surface search team. Seems routine to me.

I do not know the depth...and what you consider deep. Different boats are on the lake, but motor boats not allowed. I consider it deep since there has been drownings there. I also know the lake was drained many years ago and it wasn't shallow in my terms.
There were divers out with the team so it wasn't only surface.

The thing BC is there is only access to the lake from a small area you can park and go on the dock, unless you park on the bridge and climb down the embankment All other docks are private in the back yards of homes.

[reddress58]

Any idea of how deep that little lake is and how much surface area it covers ?
The lake is quite large by subdivision standards; but any part accessible by the general public is small...along Lochmere Dr. for maybe 1/10 of a mile and then the small park/dock area. All other areas are behind private homes or are inaccessible because of heavy woods...places that would take more time to walk through. I doubt there is current or tide to carry an item too far, so the actual search site would be relatively doable in an afternoon's time. Another thought: If they were looking for a body, it would be more reasonable to seach the lake with the jogging path around it; which neither I saw them doing, nor has any poster reported seeing. So looking for an article or weapon makes very good sense.

[raisincharlie]

I do not know the depth...and what you consider deep. Different boats are on the lake, but motor boats not allowed. I consider it deep since there has been drownings there. I also know the lake was drained many years ago and it wasn't shallow in my terms.
There were divers out with the team so it wasn't only surface.

The thing BC is there is only access to the lake from a small area you can park and go on the dock, unless you park on the bridge and climb down the embankment All other docks are private in the back yards of homes.

People drown in bathtubs too. I just can't relate this look as anything other than doing what should have been done given the circumstances.

[momto3kids]

These two lakes indicate, to me anyhow, an admission to a suspicion of foul play. Based on distance from the home and the plans Nancy had for the day - too far for a simple one hour run. Heider lives very close to Lake Johnston.
I know the water search packed up early Monday afternoon and moved on. When I went back to MM for another area to search he said the search had moved on to those other 2 lake area's. Did he mean water search also? IDK I was looking for another foot search to do.

[reddress58]

I know the water search packed up early Monday afternoon and moved on. When I went back to MM for another area to search he said the search had moved on to those other 2 lake area's. Did he mean water search also? IDK I was looking for another foot search to do.
That would coincide with the media saying searchers were going to the two other lakes Monday thinking NC may have decided to jog in those areas since there are paths around them. I think MM was refering to foot searches along those jogging paths.

I can't recall anyone mentioning water search crews other than on big Lake Lochmere.

[momto3kids]

I am surprised boats were in the water before day 1 is completed of a foot search. The lake that has an actual path around it has not even been mentioned as being searched. Big enough for boats, YES.

Back to my original thoughts...IMO, the water was priority on day one with the LE because they suspected more than missing person who just wanted to escape her marriage or twisted an ankle while jogging.

[CyberPro]

People drown in bathtubs too. I just can't relate this look as anything other than doing what should have been done given the circumstances.

A water search for an item is a very slow process. Especially if the visibility is not good, and this would likely be the case for any smaller body of water, such as Lake Lochmere. Pollen and other things that fall naturally tend to cloud the water until over the winter, when they settle somewhat. Very early spring is about the clearest that water like this gets.

Also, unless the bottom of the lake was covered with coarse sand, and even then, if the lake has been there for over 10 years, the bottom is covered with several inches of very soft mud, silt and probably acquatic weeds. An object discarded in water like this would sink into the muck. This means that an item search has to be done by laying out grids underwater, and performing a grid by grid search. The divers can use underwater metal detectors, but only if the object is metallic, and they will also get a lot of false alarms due to cans and other junk that folks throw in the water.

CyberPro

[raisincharlie]

I know the water search packed up early Monday afternoon and moved on. When I went back to MM for another area to search he said the search had moved on to those other 2 lake area's. Did he mean water search also? IDK I was looking for another foot search to do.

I have no idea Mt3K. But I am still puzzling on why they would look at these other lakes. If you look at the location of these lakes - one to the east northeast and one southeast - for Nancy to have run to either would require lots of encounters with traffic. At this point - with no confirmed sightings of Nancy in her own environ - seems to me LE had reached a conclusion of foul play and proceeded.


What does not make sense to me is a lack of searching between the points. If you look at Lake Wheeler - draw a line between the residence to the lake - it crosses very near where Nancy was recovered. I am very surprised the searches were not expanded beyond those pictured in the search maps posted here on the maps or photo thread by Mahmoo. The fact that the search areas were not expanded beyond the immediate area does indicate to me that LE had a high degree of confidence in thinking foul play had occurred. JMO.


ETA - the common denominator here seems to be Holly Springs Road if you think about it.

[raisincharlie]

A water search for an item is a very slow process. Especially if the visibility is not good, and this would likely be the case for any smaller body of water, such as Lake Lochmere. Pollen and other things that fall naturally tend to cloud the water until over the winter, when they settle somewhat. Very early spring is about the clearest that water like this gets.

Also, unless the bottom of the lake was covered with coarse sand, and even then, if the lake has been there for over 10 years, the bottom is covered with several inches of very soft mud, silt and probably acquatic weeds. An object discarded in water like this would sink into the muck. This means that an item search has to be done by laying out grids underwater, and performing a grid by grid search. The divers can use underwater metal detectors, but only if the object is metallic, and they will also get a lot of false alarms due to cans and other junk that folks throw in the water.

CyberPro

Then a surface search makes even less sense if they can't see anything. Perhaps using fish finder type equipment.

[momto3kids]

I am going on what I found today...the first part has since been replaced by the Rentz family statement...
http://cary.mync.com/site/cary/news/story/5174/cary_police_searching_...

From: "tiny dancer"
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 01:03:08 -0400
Local: Mon, Jul 14 2008 1:03 am

CARY, N.C. -
Friends, family and police have spent the entire weekend scouring Cary for a
missing woman.

Map Of Area

Nancy Cooper, 34, went out for an early-morning run Saturday, and never came
home. Since then, it's been a frantic search with police rescue divers
checking nearby lakes and dozens of volunteers covering miles of pathways.

Maybe since it had just begun on Mondays at other area's and she was found Monday night, there wasn't time for it to even get to the other media. IDK

[momto3kids]

I have no idea Mt3K. But I am still puzzling on why they would look at these other lakes. If you look at the location of these lakes - one to the east northeast and one southeast - for Nancy to have run to either would require lots of encounters with traffic. At this point - with no confirmed sightings of Nancy in her own environ - seems to me LE had reached a conclusion of foul play and proceeded.


What does not make sense to me is a lack of searching between the points. If you look at Lake Wheeler - draw a line between the residence to the lake - it crosses very near where Nancy was recovered. I am very surprised the searches were not expanded beyond those pictured in the search maps posted here on the maps or photo thread by Mahmoo. The fact that the search areas were not expanded beyond the immediate area does indicate to me that LE had a high degree of confidence in thinking foul play had occurred. JMO.


ETA - the common denominator here seems to be Holly Springs Road if you think about it.


I can be TOTALLY wrong, but Lake Wheeler has no jogging trails. Lake Wheeler would only need to have a water search. It is a picnic and boating area. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
The point I have been trying to make in the beginning is the lakes were searched for possible foul play IMO. The LE must have thought that from the very beginning.

[macd]

FWIW, IMHO, I believe the purse being in the car as late as Monday the 14th, indicates it was part of the 'staging.'

I base that on the fact the area was under alert for car break ins. NO ONE would leave their purse in their car purposely.

JMHO
fran

I just want to point out that we don't know anything about this purse other than it was a Louis Vuitton. It could have been their beach bag. It could have been Brad's laptop bag (his affidavit mentions a LV laptop case). It could have been an extra purse. We do not know if this was NC's purse.

[jmflu]

You know, I'm really starting to think this was premeditated to a certain point. There has been no arrest, which says to me they didn't find blood in the trunk or something that instantly screamed, "I shouldn't be here! Foul play!" So that tells me he really knew how to cover his tracks. Maybe he put her in a big black Hefty bag and then that inside another one and that into the trunk and that way no blood ever mistakenly got on the carpet. I also just drove past BC's house again yesterday and then followed Lochmere Drive to Lilly Atkins and out to Holly Springs. I didn't know from there which way to the subdivision but looking at a map today, now that I have driven near, I see just how remote that area was that she was found. Man, he didn't plan on her being found until much, much later, did he? It was just a miracle that man and his dog went walking all the way down all those dirt streets, way back to the very back of the subdivision. And to add to my suspicion of premeditation, with no lights, I'm betting BC had been down those roads before and had gone all the way back in there. Because in the dark, bumping down those roads, on and on further into nothingness, would be unfamiliar. My last point to add for premeditation is the utter lack of any sort of appearance on BC's part in any sort of memorial for NC. We have never seen him on TV appealing for help to find his wife's killer. No obituary. Not even a ribbon on his mailbox. Now, if this crime was done in the heat of passion, I would think one might regret it instantly, or not have even meant to kill, only to harm. Then we might see tears and appearances at memorials. But none of that has happened. He doesn't appear to regret it.

[jmflu]

I just want to point out that we don't know anything about this purse other than it was a Louis Vuitton. It could have been their beach bag. It could have been Brad's laptop bag (his affidavit mentions a LV laptop case). It could have been an extra purse. We do not know if this was NC's purse.


I've thought that too. Perhaps it was one she had just bought and hadn't used yet.

[raisincharlie]

I can be TOTALLY wrong, but Lake Wheeler has no jogging trails. Lake Wheeler would only need to have a water search. It is a picnic and boating area. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
The point I have been trying to make in the beginning is the lakes were searched for possible foul play IMO. The LE must have thought that from the very beginning.

Could very well be. JA was at the residence when LE arrived - we all know what she thinks and I have little doubt LE spoke with her that Saturday since she reported Nancy missing, probably Carey Clarke as well. The searches of the lakes near the home would be routine either way. By moving to the other lakes seems to be an admission that Nancy was transported away from her neighborhood - definitely foul play was in their minds by Monday.

ETA - the first time LE used the term non-random would be a much clearer indication of when they concluded that foul play was apparent.

[momto3kids]

You know, I'm really starting to think this was premeditated to a certain point. There has been no arrest, which says to me they didn't find blood in the trunk or something that instantly screamed, "I shouldn't be here! Foul play!" So that tells me he really knew how to cover his tracks. Maybe he put her in a big black Hefty bag and then that inside another one and that into the trunk and that way no blood ever mistakenly got on the carpet. I also just drove past BC's house again yesterday and then followed Lochmere Drive to Lilly Atkins and out to Holly Springs. I didn't know from there which way to the subdivision but looking at a map today, now that I have driven near, I see just how remote that area was that she was found. Man, he didn't plan on her being found until much, much later, did he? It was just a miracle that man and his dog went walking all the way down all those dirt streets, way back to the very back of the subdivision. And to add to my suspicion of premeditation, with no lights, I'm betting BC had been down those roads before and had gone all the way back in there. Because in the dark, bumping down those roads, on and on further into nothingness, would be unfamiliar. My last point to add for premeditation is the utter lack of any sort of appearance on BC's part in any sort of memorial for NC. We have never seen him on TV appealing for help to find his wife's killer. No obituary. Not even a ribbon on his mailbox. Now, if this crime was done in the heat of passion, I would think one might regret it instantly, or not have even meant to kill, only to harm. Then we might see tears and appearances at memorials. But none of that has happened. He doesn't appear to regret it.

I agree with most everything you have said, but there are lights back there. I drove it at 10pm one night and you can drive with no headlights. I went back to the video when the body was discovered and the lights are seen, so they were there before he dumped NC. They are the brightest street lights I have seen and happy they are not in front of my house. LOL

He has absolutely no remorse and never has. What hits me the hardest besides his mailbox, is him telling his girls about their mom just before the service and then walking away. He spent Sat. morning with them. Is this what a parent suppose to do when their children need them the most?

[reddress58]

You know, I'm really starting to think this was premeditated to a certain point. There has been no arrest, which says to me they didn't find blood in the trunk or something that instantly screamed, "I shouldn't be here! Foul play!" So that tells me he really knew how to cover his tracks. Maybe he put her in a big black Hefty bag and then that inside another one and that into the trunk and that way no blood ever mistakenly got on the carpet. I also just drove past BC's house again yesterday and then followed Lochmere Drive to Lilly Atkins and out to Holly Springs. I didn't know from there which way to the subdivision but looking at a map today, now that I have driven near, I see just how remote that area was that she was found. Man, he didn't plan on her being found until much, much later, did he? It was just a miracle that man and his dog went walking all the way down all those dirt streets, way back to the very back of the subdivision. And to add to my suspicion of premeditation, with no lights, I'm betting BC had been down those roads before and had gone all the way back in there. Because in the dark, bumping down those roads, on and on further into nothingness, would be unfamiliar. My last point to add for premeditation is the utter lack of any sort of appearance on BC's part in any sort of memorial for NC. We have never seen him on TV appealing for help to find his wife's killer. No obituary. Not even a ribbon on his mailbox. Now, if this crime was done in the heat of passion, I would think one might regret it instantly, or not have even meant to kill, only to harm. Then we might see tears and appearances at memorials. But none of that has happened. He doesn't appear to regret it.
jmflu, the roads back there are paved and there are street lights. Still, he could have known about the area ahead of time...looking at houses, computer search, etc.

[jmflu]

I agree with most everything you have said, but there are lights back there. I drove it at 10pm one night and you can drive with no headlights. I went back to the video when the body was discovered and the lights are seen, so they were there before he dumped NC. They are the brightest street lights I have seen and happy they are not in front of my house. LOL

He has absolutely no remorse and never has. What hits me the hardest besides his mailbox, is him telling his girls about their mom just before the service and then walking away. He spent Sat. morning with them. Is this what a parent suppose to do when their children need them the most?

Just testing! I see you and Reddress are keeping me straight!! That is good. I was looking at an overhead picture and I didn't see those lights. Must look pretty weird with those bright lights shining on nothing but dirt road...

[CyberPro]

Then a surface search makes even less sense if they can't see anything. Perhaps using fish finder type equipment.

RC,

Fish finders are based upon SONAR technology. In the case of commercial fish finders, they beam an ultrasonic frequency into the water in a cone shape to the bottom. There can be special software that helps a person determine what is a fish, but what it is really picking up is the air bladder in the fish that helps the fish hold whatever depth that it wants. This air bladder is what allows the fish to not sink to the bottom always.

Ultrasound units that people use to diagnose medical conditions work using the same technology, which is the difference in tissue density. Fluid filled organs allow the signal to pass through easily, and show up as black on the screen, while tissue of other densities shows up as a gray color or white, if it reflects a lot of the signal back.

There is a special type of fish finder type device that is based from a normal fish finder, but has special software in it. It is known as a "body-cator" and is made to help find drowning victims or perhaps homicide victims. It works from the same principal as the fish finder, using the gases that are the product of decomposition, and the fact that a weighted or trapped body will be trying to float, and so will have some degree of separation from the actual bottom of the body of water. I am not sure how well they work, but when I was in EMS we had a local rescue unit that had one with their water rescue unit.

Looking for a gun, club, shovel or anything like that would not work with a fish finder, even though there is a large difference in the density between a hard object, like a gun, and the soft (usually) bottom of the lake. This is due to the signal being diffused by the soft mud/weeds at the bottom of the water. You can see some hard objects, like stumps, rocks as solid objects, but something smaller would be hard to tell. Usually, there is a fairly wide band of noise at the bottom of the finder that signifies the bottom, and is caused by the diffusion of the signal.

CyberPro

[Star12]

You know, I'm really starting to think this was premeditated to a certain point. There has been no arrest, which says to me they didn't find blood in the trunk or something that instantly screamed, "I shouldn't be here! Foul play!" So that tells me he really knew how to cover his tracks. Maybe he put her in a big black Hefty bag and then that inside another one and that into the trunk and that way no blood ever mistakenly got on the carpet. I also just drove past BC's house again yesterday and then followed Lochmere Drive to Lilly Atkins and out to Holly Springs. I didn't know from there which way to the subdivision but looking at a map today, now that I have driven near, I see just how remote that area was that she was found. Man, he didn't plan on her being found until much, much later, did he? It was just a miracle that man and his dog went walking all the way down all those dirt streets, way back to the very back of the subdivision. And to add to my suspicion of premeditation, with no lights, I'm betting BC had been down those roads before and had gone all the way back in there. Because in the dark, bumping down those roads, on and on further into nothingness, would be unfamiliar. My last point to add for premeditation is the utter lack of any sort of appearance on BC's part in any sort of memorial for NC. We have never seen him on TV appealing for help to find his wife's killer. No obituary. Not even a ribbon on his mailbox. Now, if this crime was done in the heat of passion, I would think one might regret it instantly, or not have even meant to kill, only to harm. Then we might see tears and appearances at memorials. But none of that has happened. He doesn't appear to regret it.

1. That cul de sac has lights on it. Mom traveled the area well after dark and said she could see perfectly, even with her car lights off. Crime scene tape was even wrapped around the light fixture right where NC's body was found. Not dark.

2. While BC did not go to the memorial service, he did go to the service for the volunteer searchers. He did lawyer up and his attorney may have told him not to go - we don't know. He also was with the children the morning of the memorial service - the GP may have asked him to not attend. Again, we don't don't know.

3. He did appear at a presser to appeal for anyone knowing anything to alert the CPD.

4. He did have a white ribbon on his mailbox -- it is no longer there, but at one time he did have one.

5. If it were done in the heat of passion, which seems to be the consensus here, his regret, IMO, seems to be that her death did not just effect her no longer being there, but has drawn much unpleasant speculation that he abhors, the danger that he may somehow be tried for her death, the danger to his financial situation, and to his career, the reality that his children are no longer with him.

5. However, having said all that, I DO believe it was in the heat of passion, and I DO believe that once the physical violence started, his rage did not end until well after Nancy was dead.

[raisincharlie]

RC,

Fish finders are based upon SONAR technology. In the case of commercial fish finders, they beam an ultrasonic frequency into the water in a cone shape to the bottom. There can be special software that helps a person determine what is a fish, but what it is really picking up is the air bladder in the fish that helps the fish hold whatever depth that it wants. This air bladder is what allows the fish to not sink to the bottom always.

Ultrasound units that people use to diagnose medical conditions work using the same technology, which is the difference in tissue density. Fluid filled organs allow the signal to pass through easily, and show up as black on the screen, while tissue of other densities shows up as a gray color or white, if it reflects a lot of the signal back.

There is a special type of fish finder type device that is based from a normal fish finder, but has special software in it. It is known as a "body-cator" and is made to help find drowning victims or perhaps homicide victims. It works from the same principal as the fish finder, using the gases that are the product of decomposition, and the fact that a weighted or trapped body will be trying to float, and so will have some degree of separation from the actual bottom of the body of water. I am not sure how well they work, but when I was in EMS we had a local rescue unit that had one with their water rescue unit.

Looking for a gun, club, shovel or anything like that would not work with a fish finder, even though there is a large difference in the density between a hard object, like a gun, and the soft (usually) bottom of the lake. This is due to the signal being diffused by the soft mud/weeds at the bottom of the water. You can see some hard objects, like stumps, rocks as solid objects, but something smaller would be hard to tell. Usually, there is a fairly wide band of noise at the bottom of the finder that signifies the bottom, and is caused by the diffusion of the signal.

CyberPro

So maybe they were looking for a body - seems reasonable.

[momto3kids]

I just want to point out that we don't know anything about this purse other than it was a Louis Vuitton. It could have been their beach bag. It could have been Brad's laptop bag (his affidavit mentions a LV laptop case). It could have been an extra purse. We do not know if this was NC's purse.

I will have to listen again exactly how it was stated, but on the 911 call JA states NC purse was still in there. I also think she said the car.
This is how we concluded it was NC purse.

Someone correct me if I have this wrong...

[raisincharlie]

jmflu, the roads back there are paved and there are street lights. Still, he could have known about the area ahead of time...looking at houses, computer search, etc.

Did you ever check with Toll Brothers to verify the lights were working on the 12th of July ? From the N & O pictures of the ambulance leaving the area - there don't seem to be many street lights working - looks pitch black actually.

[reddress58]

Did you ever check with Toll Brothers to verify the lights were working on the 12th of July ? From the N & O pictures of the ambulance leaving the area - there don't seem to be many street lights working - looks pitch black actually.
Oops, no I didn't. I'll do so.

[raisincharlie]

Oops, no I didn't. I'll do so.


Photo 19 :

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html

[jmflu]

1. That cul de sac has lights on it. Mom traveled the area well after dark and said she could see perfectly, even with her car lights off. Crime scene tape was even wrapped around the light fixture right where NC's body was found. Not dark.

2. While BC did not go to the memorial service, he did go to the service for the volunteer searchers. He did lawyer up and his attorney may have told him not to go - we don't know. He also was with the children the morning of the memorial service - the GP may have asked him to not attend. Again, we don't don't know. I can't imagine he was asked not to go to his own wife's memorial. I understand the concern that he might be asked something or might say something or might draw attention. But the memorial is for the living, and if he wasn't guilty, wouldn't he need that catharsis just like the rest of us?

3. He did appear at a presser to appeal for anyone knowing anything to alert the CPD.

4. He did have a white ribbon on his mailbox -- it is no longer there, but at one time he did have one. I know, but his wife's killer hasn't been found yet. Wouldn't you put one back up? Isn't it rediculous that his own neighbors have bows up and he doesn't?

5. If it were done in the heat of passion, which seems to be the consensus here, his regret, IMO, seems to be that her death did not just effect her no longer being there, but has drawn much unpleasant speculation that he abhors, the danger that he may somehow be tried for her death, the danger to his financial situation, and to his career, the reality that his children are no longer with him. Agreed!

5. However, having said all that, I DO believe it was in the heat of passion, and I DO believe that once the physical violence started, his rage did not end until well after Nancy was dead.


My comments added in bold...

[jmflu]

Photo 19 :

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html

WOW, you are so right... so those lights were working AFTER the murder at some point, maybe because the murder drew their attention to getting the lights working?

[raisincharlie]

WOW, you are so right... so those lights were working AFTER the murder at some point, maybe because the murder drew their attention to getting the lights working?

Dunno - very possible. Lets see what Reddress can find out first.

[reddress58]

Photo 19 :

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/photos/story/1142714.html
Looks pretty darn dark to me!

[raisincharlie]

Looks pretty darn dark to me!

So would you think if a murderer was wanting to dispose of a body in the dark, it might be relatively easy to find a dark spot to do so ? Just my way of thinking - you look for lights and know you don't want to go there so you find a way to get to the dark. Call me simpleton.

[fran]

I just want to point out that we don't know anything about this purse other than it was a Louis Vuitton. It could have been their beach bag. It could have been Brad's laptop bag (his affidavit mentions a LV laptop case). It could have been an extra purse. We do not know if this was NC's purse.

The article said, "Louis Vuitton purse." IF it was an 'extra purse,' I'm sure Brad would have put it in one of his 200 lines of affidavit. You don't need to count it, but I will. Bet LE considers it 'hinky.' ;)

FWIW, Brad stated he told Nancy to return the laptop bag, so we know it wasn't that......UNLESS Brad was lying.:eek:

JMHO
fran

[Topsail Girl]

A little off track here but I have to tell y'all this. if you have not visited the Memorial Site for Nancy that Diana Duncan has put up please do. She has added more photos and last night at JJ some of Nancy's friends were talking about these pics of Nancy "walking" the dogs. You have to see these pics!! They are on the second page not the last ones but pretty close. They are hilarious!!! I can see Nancy's humor and good nature shine through in all the pics but especially the dog walking pics. LOL

Another thing I was thinking of - I wonder if John Mayers song is significant because of the movie it was the sound track for or if Nancy just loved John Mayer. That is his newest song playing on the radio. I wonder which it is.

[Star12]

So would you think if a murderer was wanting to dispose of a body in the dark, it might be relatively easy to find a dark spot to do so ? Just my way of thinking - you look for lights and know you don't want to go there so you find a way to get to the dark. Call me simpleton.

I agree with you...well, not about the simpleton part...but Mom did go there and said the light was working. However, she did go after Aug. 2, which was when we made our first trip there and discovered the light fixture. It certainly would make more sense if it were dark down there.

And when I first saw the fixture, my first thought was that it would not yet be turned on.

[momto3kids]

Looks pretty darn dark to me!

rdd58....can you tell where exactly is the ambulance coming out? I think it was in the wrong cul-de-sac since the one NC was found in you could turn left or right. With this photo there is no left turn.

RC...I personally think it is pretty lit up considering no homes were even built back there for added lights. I can make out vehicle colors which in pitch dark I wouldn't be able to.

The point I was making is the street lights could allow anyone to drive without headlights if they go slow enough.15-20mph
The cul-de-sac is not too large, maybe 3 home sites...1 light will be enough to have someone see where they are dumping a body.

[raisincharlie]

rdd58....can you tell where exactly is the ambulance coming out? I think it was in the wrong cul-de-sac since the one NC was found in you could turn left or right. With this photo there is no left turn.

RC...I personally think it is pretty lit up considering no homes were even built back there for added lights. I can make out vehicle colors which in pitch dark I wouldn't be able to.

The point I was making is the street lights could allow anyone to drive without headlights if they go slow enough.15-20mph
The cul-de-sac is not too large, maybe 3 home sites...1 light will be enough to have someone see where they are dumping a body.

I'm not doubting what you saw at the time you went. That photo however tells a different story - there are no street lights present in the photo - no glow either. Remove the cars with headlights on and I doubt you would be able to see the colors - all I'm saying.

[jmflu]

rdd58....can you tell where exactly is the ambulance coming out? I think it was in the wrong cul-de-sac since the one NC was found in you could turn left or right. With this photo there is no left turn.

RC...I personally think it is pretty lit up considering no homes were even built back there for added lights. I can make out vehicle colors which in pitch dark I wouldn't be able to.

The point I was making is the street lights could allow anyone to drive without headlights if they go slow enough.15-20mph
The cul-de-sac is not too large, maybe 3 home sites...1 light will be enough to have someone see where they are dumping a body.

Wow, Mom, you must have some good eyes, or maybe it's because you've been there... I can't tell head nor tails of any turns!!!

[Star12]

I've thought that too. Perhaps it was one she had just bought and hadn't used yet.

If she hadn't used the purse, why would LE have any interest in it?

[CyberPro]

So would you think if a murderer was wanting to dispose of a body in the dark, it might be relatively easy to find a dark spot to do so ? Just my way of thinking - you look for lights and know you don't want to go there so you find a way to get to the dark. Call me simpleton.

RC,

It is not nearly as isolated, but IMo a better location would have been down Holly Springs Road near the crossing with Lilly Atkins. It is along Holly Springs, which is heavily traveled during the day, but there is a VERY LOW LYING, swampy area there. Since most folks are whizzing by in their cars, dropping a body there near the road, and making even a half hearted attempt to cover it, it might never be found.

I have been by this area, and I think Magister orignially mentioned it in an early post, but it is very low lying, and no one would be likely to travel by it on foot, or on a bike. Too scary due to no shoulders and fast traffic.

CyberPro

[raisincharlie]

RC,

It is not nearly as isolated, but IMo a better location would have been down Holly Springs Road near the crossing with Lilly Atkins. It is along Holly Springs, which is heavily traveled during the day, but there is a VERY LOW LYING, swampy area there. Since most folks are whizzing by in their cars, dropping a body there near the road, and making even a half hearted attempt to cover it, it might never be found.

I have been by this area, and I think Magister orignially mentioned it in an early post, but it is very low lying, and no one would be likely to travel by it on foot, or on a bike. Too scary due to no shoulders and fast traffic.

CyberPro

So you would take a chance stopping on a road prone to traffic to dispose of a body rather than going to an area with low to no traffic potential - more isolated from view of a passer by ?

Not me.

[jmflu]

If she hadn't used the purse, why would LE have any interest in it?


It's also possible she changed out of one purse to another and left the one in the car. I have done that, changed purses in a hurry to match what I am wearing or to fit an occasion.

I'm just saying we can't assume it was "the" purse NC used and base theories on it such as BC planted it, etc.

[momto3kids]

So would you think if a murderer was wanting to dispose of a body in the dark, it might be relatively easy to find a dark spot to do so ? Just my way of thinking - you look for lights and know you don't want to go there so you find a way to get to the dark. Call me simpleton.

RC...I think the way the lighting is back there was perfect for this crime. He could drive to the spot without headlights that would raise attention, dump her and been able to see the spot to put her. No headlights being used, no one would see anyone or anything back there occuring.

[jmflu]

So you would take a chance stopping on a road prone to traffic to dispose of a body rather than going to an area with low to no traffic potential - more isolated from view of a passer by ?

Not me.

Not me, either. All someone's gotta do is round the corner and there you are, stopped on the road in their headlights.

Possible, but not probable. Just as NC running in that area.

[jmflu]

RC...I think the way the lighting is back there was perfect for this crime. He could drive to the spot without headlights that would raise attention, dump her and been able to see the spot to put her.

I wonder if Toll Brothers will even tell us if the lights were working then. About how often was there a stoplight, Mom? Every few feet, or like, one per cul-de-sac?

[reddress58]

rdd58....can you tell where exactly is the ambulance coming out? I think it was in the wrong cul-de-sac since the one NC was found in you could turn left or right. With this photo there is no left turn.

RC...I personally think it is pretty lit up considering no homes were even built back there for added lights. I can make out vehicle colors which in pitch dark I wouldn't be able to.

The point I was making is the street lights could allow anyone to drive without headlights if they go slow enough.15-20mph
The cul-de-sac is not too large, maybe 3 home sites...1 light will be enough to have someone see where they are dumping a body.
The lights were ON the night of 12th, RC, according to Toll's Oaks' construction supervisor. He was very helpful by saying it was well lit and a car could easily find its way back there.

Mom, I can't tell from the picture where the little curved street is. It'll bug me now, so I guess I'll have to go back and look.

[jmflu]

The lights were ON the night of 12th, RC, according to Toll's Oaks' construction supervisor. He was very helpful by saying it was well lit and a car could easily find its way back there.

Mom, I can't tell from the picture where the little curved street is. It'll bug me now, so I guess I'll have to go back and look.

Well... that answers that question! Thanks for finding out, reddress!

[momto3kids]

So you would take a chance stopping on a road prone to traffic to dispose of a body rather than going to an area with low to no traffic potential - more isolated from view of a passer by ?

Not me.

Also not far from Lochmere Birkhaven just when you turn off Penney Road is a drop off on Holly Springs road...(that needs a gurard rail IMO) that no one would have found her for quite some time. The cars are traveling at a good speed. No one rides close to the edge of this section unless they want to flip down it.

[raisincharlie]

RC...I think the way the lighting is back there was perfect for this crime. He could drive to the spot without headlights that would raise attention, dump her and been able to see the spot to put her. No headlights being used, no one would see anyone or anything back there occuring.

I don't doubt that but the truth is we do not know those lights were even working on 12 July. What we do know is there is not one single street light in photo 19 at the end of the cul de sac. We also know from Skittles pictures - the street lights are physically present at that location when she took those photos a few weeks later.

[raisincharlie]

The lights were ON the night of 12th, RC, according to Toll's Oaks' construction supervisor. He was very helpful by saying it was well lit and a car could easily find its way back there.

Mom, I can't tell from the picture where the little curved street is. It'll bug me now, so I guess I'll have to go back and look.


Thanks Reddress !

[momto3kids]

The lights were ON the night of 12th, RC, according to Toll's Oaks' construction supervisor. He was very helpful by saying it was well lit and a car could easily find its way back there.

Mom, I can't tell from the picture where the little curved street is. It'll bug me now, so I guess I'll have to go back and look.

It is driving me nuts myself... I know it is NOT the cul-de-sac NC was found...

BTW...thanks for finding out.

So, I go back to he drove with NO headlights and was able to get around not being seen.

[Star12]

The lights were ON the night of 12th, RC, according to Toll's Oaks' construction supervisor. He was very helpful by saying it was well lit and a car could easily find its way back there.

Mom, I can't tell from the picture where the little curved street is. It'll bug me now, so I guess I'll have to go back and look.

Okay then. That answers a huge question. So he did have a streetlight to see by. But STILL, it is so isolated and visually protected that no one could have seen any activity there.

Good job Red. Thanks for making that call.

[momto3kids]

I don't doubt that but the truth is we do not know those lights were even working on 12 July. What we do know is there is not one single street light in photo 19 at the end of the cul de sac. We also know from Skittles pictures - the street lights are physically present at that location when she took those photos a few weeks later.
I do know each corner has at least 1 light...not a particular side, but 1 corner of any intersecting roads. You just don't see it, my guess it is right past the netting. They can't put it in the ditch because this subdivision doesn't have curb and gutters, and the lights are set back behind the ditches.

[reddress58]

Okay then. That answers a huge question. So he did have a streetlight to see by. But STILL, it is so isolated and visually protected that no one could have seen any activity there.

Good job Red. Thanks for making that call.
Yeah, and remember that series of burms hiding that street from the developed part of the s/d.

[Star12]

I do know each corner has at least 1 light...not a particular side, but 1 corner of any intersecting roads. You just don't see it, my guess it is right past the netting. They can't put it in the ditch because this subdivision doesn't have curb and gutters, and the lights are set back behind the ditches.

I know there is the light by the site, and IIRC, we saw two or three more I believe at the straightaway of the culdesac. At least one light was out, and, while this was mid-morning, the other light/s were lit. The one at the end of the culdesac was not lit at that time.

[momto3kids]

Wow, Mom, you must have some good eyes, or maybe it's because you've been there... I can't tell head nor tails of any turns!!!
I go every week to her site to let her know she is not forgotten by us WS'ers and none of us will give up on her.

[fran]

Police were there until 10:30/11:00...many hours it appears. Close to 8 hours?

mom, FWIW, when LE was first at the Cooper home, they probably just talked to Brad to get details. They were most likely using the home as the 'base,' for just the first day. That would be why they were there so late. There were probably people out looking and coming back to report.

Brad was cooperative and did allow LE to go through the home. But without a SW, LE could not remove anything nor 'move' anything. They could only view items that were 'visible' as they walked by. Like, if they saw a drawer that looked interesting, they could NOT open it and check the contents. IF they found something in a drawer they opened, for example, it could NOT be used as 'evidence.'

When LE does get a SW, it has to be very specific on 'what' they're looking for and 'where.' Like when they saw Nancy's purse in the vehicle, they couldn't take it without a SW.

I've seen where LE sees through a window, someone is murdered. But they've waited up to several hours before entering the residence, because they had to get a SW. IF they'd forced entered the residence, which appeared to be the crime scene, anything they found could not be used. They needed a SW.

JMHO
fran

[Roy23]

mom, FWIW, when LE was first at the Cooper home, they probably just talked to Brad to get details. They were most likely using the home as the 'base,' for just the first day. That would be why they were there so late. There were probably people out looking and coming back to report.

Brad was cooperative and did allow LE to go through the home. But without a SW, LE could not remove anything nor 'move' anything. They could only view items that were 'visible' as they walked by. Like, if they saw a drawer that looked interesting, they could NOT open it and check the contents. IF they found something in a drawer they opened, for example, it could NOT be used as 'evidence.'

When LE does get a SW, it has to be very specific on 'what' they're looking for and 'where.' Like when they saw Nancy's purse in the vehicle, they couldn't take it without a SW.

I've seen where LE sees through a window, someone is murdered. But they've waited up to several hours before entering the residence, because they had to get a SW. IF they'd forced entered the residence, which appeared to be the crime scene, anything they found could not be used. They needed a SW.

JMHO
fran


Fran,

LE has a bit more leeway than you suggest when they deem someone is dead or their life is in danger.

[momto3kids]

mom, FWIW, when LE was first at the Cooper home, they probably just talked to Brad to get details. They were most likely using the home as the 'base,' for just the first day. That would be why they were there so late. There were probably people out looking and coming back to report.

Brad was cooperative and did allow LE to go through the home. But without a SW, LE could not remove anything nor 'move' anything. They could only view items that were 'visible' as they walked by. Like, if they saw a drawer that looked interesting, they could NOT open it and check the contents. IF they found something in a drawer they opened, for example, it could NOT be used as 'evidence.'

When LE does get a SW, it has to be very specific on 'what' they're looking for and 'where.' Like when they saw Nancy's purse in the vehicle, they couldn't take it without a SW.

I've seen where LE sees through a window, someone is murdered. But they've waited up to several hours before entering the residence, because they had to get a SW. IF they'd forced entered the residence, which appeared to be the crime scene, anything they found could not be used. They needed a SW.

JMHO
fran

I fully understand what you are saying about a 'base' and the length of hours spent there.
My question originated by the statement...

About 3:45 p.m. Monday, police searched the couple's BMW sedan and BMW SUV. They also removed a Louis Vuitton purse from one vehicle.

Since many thought the purse was taken on Saturday and now this says Mond