Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #24

[SleuthyGal]

I'm with RD on this one.

From the side of the road it would take quite a few steps to get to the "pond", more steps than someone would want to take to dump a body. A dead body is heavvvvy.

I don't think she was found in the "wet" part.

Ditto this too. If he had bothered to walk as far as the actual pond itself, then I see no reason he wouldn't have just dumped her into the heavy bush coverage, which would hide a body very well.

[jumpstreet]

However, I think it would be reasonable to assume that everything should be tested within 6 months and possibly within 3 months, depending.

Thanks SG, that's good to know!

[sunflowers]

RC, all the flower memorials were laid in one spot at the front of the pond area- one on top of the other over a period of time- as if the mourner knew exactly where her body laid. There was no water there. A little water was past the fence and then over the berm. I truly believe this particular spot was where her body was found based on the call from the dog walker. He had to walk to the edge to see it...as we did. It could resonably described as "the pond" because it was part of the indentation of land of the drainage area as a whole. Kind of like the seashore when the tide is out.

reddress, you mean that he had to walk to the edge of the pavement in order to see her body? that's what i've heard---that he stayed on the pavement & made the call from the street, and didn't go down to where her body was.

[reddress58]

Yes they did say..2001 BMW is where it was collected.
By her feet? How did he get her down the steps into the garage, let her head hit each step as he went down them? I don't agree with that at all.
Me neither. I think he carried her. She was light, and I did not note that a north face jacket was included among confiscated items in the SW.

[momto3kids]

trace taping is picking up 'trace evidence' like fibers, hair, stuff like that with pieces of tape for later examination in the crime lab.

Thanks....I had no idea.

[jumpstreet]

Has todays quote from Cary Chief been discussed any: “Everyone must remember that investigations are as much about ruling things out as ruling things in and that it’s the evidence that comes from a search warrant – not the warrant itself – that makes a difference in a case,”

It seems she is kinda trying to "take the edge off" of the information in the warrants, basically saying "don't read too much into this stuff, because at the time we were trying to eliminate suspects as much as we were to find them" [ completely my take ]

One fair point from the K&B statement is that these warrants do only give us a glimse of the "state of affairs" 6+ weeks in the past... surely LE knows a lot more now (even if we assume the forensics are not back).

The Chief's statement though is from today - maybe there is a hint there as to the current state of affairs for the investigation? It could be standard "police-speak"... or... it could very well be that in the past 6+ weeks, the investigation has taken a completely different turn and focus point?

Other thoughts?

[reddress58]

reddress, you mean that he had to walk to the edge of the pavement in order to see her body? that's what i've heard---that he stayed on the pavement & made the call from the street, and didn't go down to where her body was.
I took it as he had to walk toward the retention area to see the body. Not necessarily to the edge of the pavement. We retraced his steps while onsite.

[jilly]

Does anyone think that it was odd that Dr John Butts, the Chief Medical Officer for the State of NC made the identification of Nancy's body?

Doesn't the Pathologist Clarke or his staff cover this area? I just thought it was kind of strange.

[SleuthyGal]

I took it as he had to walk toward the retention area to see the body. Not necessarily to the edge of the pavement. We retraced his steps while onsite. He was also taller than us (well, certainly ME), so that would affect how close he had to get in order to see over that slope down. Taller = could see it from slightly further away.

[momto3kids]

Me neither. I think he carried her. She was light, and I did not note that a north face jacket was included among confiscated items in the SW.


I didn't think about that! That is what he wore on the 14th during his search. LE had already noted his neck with possible marks. I guess they would have taken his long sleeve shirts also if they took the jacket.

The one BC wore to HT was not named by brand to me, just jacket being worn and cap.

[raisincharlie]

Does anyone think that it was odd that Dr John Butts, the Chief Medical Officer for the State of NC made the identification of Nancy's body?

Doesn't the Pathologist Clarke or his staff cover this area? I just thought it was kind of strange.

Maybe Clarke is no longer there - we know about his screw ups.

[SleuthyGal]

Does anyone think that it was odd that Dr John Butts, the Chief Medical Officer for the State of NC made the identification of Nancy's body?

Doesn't the Pathologist Clarke or his staff cover this area? I just thought it was kind of strange. Nope I think they are all 'working' pathologists. The volume and budget probably dictate that he do his share of cases, though probably fewer than the others since he has administrative functions in addition.

[SleuthyGal]

I didn't think about that! That is what he wore on the 14th during his search. LE had already noted his neck with possible marks. I guess they would have taken his long sleeve shirts also if they took the jacket.

The one BC wore to HT was not named by brand to me, just jacket being worn and cap.

I also wonder if they determined which shirt he was wearing the night/morning Nancy left those scratches on his neck. It's possible there was some light bleeding from his neck, depending on how deep the scratches were, perhaps just enough to leave tiny spots on whatever shirt he had on THAT evening.

[raisincharlie]

I also wonder if they determined which shirt he was wearing the night/morning Nancy left those scratches on his neck. It's possible there was some light bleeding from his neck, depending on how deep the scratches were, perhaps just enough to leave tiny spots on whatever shirt he had on THAT evening.

A Nike Dryfit, white colored XL ?

[EntreNous]

Yeah, I'm on this page too... (the not-ready-to-convict part for sure. Though, I suppose based on current knowns, Theory A (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2465948&postcount=171) (BC did it) has to remain a front-runner)

It would be nice to know the maximum reasonable timetable for the forensics. It seems to me (but what do I know :) ), that if the forensics ARE back, and there's been no arrest, then LE very well could have very little of substance... and this case could remain unsolved for a fairly protracted period.

OTOH, if the forensics are NOT back yet, then it could very well be that an arrest could come 'any day now' (post GJ, etc).

Hence my (earlier posted) question on "after how much time has passed, it is reasonable to conclude the initial forensics are likely complete?" (it's been posted that it takes months, and that 60 days isn't uncommon... how much time is considered uncommonly long? (6 months? 1 year? 2 years? less? more?)).

I'd think they'd be able to ID the hair pretty quickly if it's Nancy's. They can also tell if it came from her while she was alive or it came from her corpse, (this has been discussed in the Caylee Anthony case recently). Certainly Nancy's hair would be found all over the house and cars. The defense could argue that a blanket or clothing could have been in the trunk of the sedan and transferred Nancy's hair there. They could also say BC used a towel from the house to wash the car if the hair matches Nancy's. The real key with that is if the testing shows the hair is from a cadaver. If it does, I just don't see how BC could wiggle out of it.

If Nancy was still alive when he moved her to the car, i.e. dying but not yet dead, she could have vomited. I would hate to think she could have possibly still been alive when her killer put her face down in a drainage pond.

[momto3kids]

I took it as he had to walk toward the retention area to see the body. Not necessarily to the edge of the pavement. We retraced his steps while onsite.

RDD58....I am still wondering if like my 1st theory where I stated, she was not quite dead when he got her to the site, in horrible condition, but not dead, he dragged her to the other side of the white tarp, thought he finished her off, she was barely able to crawl, did a short distance, but ended up rolling over into the water.

[reddress58]

Is it possible she was both "in the pond", and yet outside the silt fence? Seems to me I recall the water level was higher prior to the discovery (recent rains, and perhaps was subsequently drained). Certainly it wouldn't take much for the water level to rise outside the silt fence at that time.

Regardless, I guess I don't follow on the significance of being in contact with the body at that time. Surely the perp (whoever the perp was) would be in contact with the body putting it in the trunk to begin with? What am I missing?
This could very well support both the "in the pond" and "out of the pond" reports. We saw the tubing in the aerial photos. Just how much of the retenion area did they drain?

ETA: Would also make sense that he didn't take her deeper into the pond area, which have been a better hiding place. If he thought she was immersed enough in water as it was.

[CARYISHOME]

don't know. Depends on how backed-up the crime lab is, how many samples they are testing, what is ahead of this case, if anything, if they sent any samples out to other labs and how quickly those labs can turn something around, which kind of DNA testing is being done (some take longer). All variables...there is no ONE time frame that can apply. However, I think it would be reasonable to assume that everything should be tested within 6 months and possibly within 3 months, depending.

I work for the State. They are well aware of what's at stake here. Problem is they are under staffed and under paid.

IMO

[CyberPro]

Just curious: based on the release of the warrants today, is anyone now on the page that they would return a verdict of "guilty" if they were sitting on a jury today... or does reasonable doubt still exist?

[ Previously, while most thought the probability seemed high that BC was the culprit (based on current knowns), very few (nearly none) were comfortable with the notion of a guilty verdict just yet. ]

Still true?

I have been willin to keep an open mind, with a strong lean to the belief that BC=Perp, but willing to be swayed if the correct evidence was presented. I strongly believe that there are extremely serious flaws in his story, which might become huge gulfs in plausability if some of the things that Mom have spoken of are even close to the truth.

That being said, I do not feel that we have enough evidence to convict YET. It would depend on some things that LE no doubt has, but we are not privy to just yet.

1. What, if anything, was found on the computer(s),Flash Drives, etc. - this is not an absolute requirement, and BC should have been saavy enough to leave no traces, but you never can tell.

2. Need a COD

3. Need results of the tests on hair mentioned in the SWs.

4. DNA Results on the possible fingernail

5. Analysis results on the Sheet Stain, plastic, childs garment, etc. removed from the residence.

In most cases, I consider DNA to be a slam dunk, do not pass go, type of evidence, but in this case, I believe that it has less weight. The only situation where I could consider it a really bad situation was if it turns out that DNA was in a location where BCs DNA should not exist, in light of the lack of relations that were in his affidavit. Otherwise, they were living in the same house, and DNA happens. The presence of bodily fluid traces in the car trunk could not be explained away quite so easily.

Circumstantially, I already think the case is pretty strong, but just because hair was obtained from a location does not prove that the hair was NCs, or even human. It takes the results of that to actually mean anything.

CyberPro

[momto3kids]

If Nancy was still alive when he moved her to the car, i.e. dying but not yet dead, she could have vomited. I would hate to think she could have possibly still been alive when her killer put her face down in a drainage pond.

You and I are thinking exactly the same! I just posted about the same thing you did.

[EntreNous]

Also, I wish they'd have been more specific about the items.
The pink nail? Fingernail? Human? Acrylic or porcelain?
The green plastic? Piece of tarp? Lawn bag?

[sunflowers]

He was also taller than us (well, certainly ME), so that would affect how close he had to get in order to see over that slope down. Taller = could see it from slightly further away.

didn't think about the height difference between average men and women--that makes sense. given where we think Nancy's body was, do you think a man around 6'0" could see Nancy's body from the street?

[reddress58]

RDD58....I am still wondering if like my 1st theory where I stated, she was not quite dead when he got her to the site, in horrible condition, but not dead, he dragged her to the other side of the white tarp, thought he finished her off and she tried to crawl to where she would roll over into the water?
Ugh! Lets hope not!! That would be too much for me to handle.

[jilly]

So, do you think he carried her to the car? I am having a hard time with the hair on the front spoiler and the wheel. How could that have happened?

Me too Caryishome. I actually got my dh involved and he drew me a diagram of how it could happen if he ran her over. I still didn't get it :crazy:and unfortunately I was interrupting his leisurely viewing of the History Channel and the last time I went back to him :talker: he told me we could go outside and he would demonstrate!:floorlaugh:

[jumpstreet]

I work for the State. They are well aware of what's at stake here. Problem is they are under staffed and under paid.

IMO

Probably can get a couple hundred WS volunteers to help 'gratis' if they would just ask... :)

[SleuthyGal]

I'd think they'd be able to ID the hair pretty quickly if it's Nancy's. They can also tell if it came from her while she was alive or it came from her corpse, (this has been discussed in the Caylee Anthony case recently).

Unfortunately not in this case. It takes at least a few hours after death (and up to 1 or 2 days), per Lawrence Kobaliski, for the hair banding to start in a cadaver's hair. Any hair that Nancy shed as she was either in the house or put in the trunk or dumped would not (yet) show this banding pattern. No banding pattern = can't prove whether head hair came from a corpse.

[CyberPro]

A dead body is heavvvvy.

I don't think she was found in the "wet" part.

Heavy hunh? Voice of experience perhaps? We might want to know more....

On the "wet" part. It had rained very heavily the day before NC was discovered. I have not actually visited that location, but it was mentioned that the area was low-lying, sort of a low shoulder or worse. It is possible that some rain or runoff had remained in the low area, thus making it wet like a puddle, but not actually in the pond.

I do not think either situation bodes well for the removal of trace evidence from the body, but some could have been found. I am not completely sure about that location, but I know it was raining quite hard on Monday before the discovery.

CyberPro

[momto3kids]

Me too Caryishome. I actually got my dh involved and he drew me a diagram of how it could happen if he ran her over. I still didn't get it :crazy:and unfortunately I was interrupting his leisurely viewing of the History Channel and the last time I went back to him :talker: he told me we could go outside and he would demonstrate!:floorlaugh:

Now Jilly....don't you know better than to disturb a man who is viewing the History Channel?? :slap:

[SleuthyGal]

A Nike Dryfit, white colored XL ?

Ohhhh!! Perhaps.

[reddress58]

Heavy hunh? Voice of experience perhaps? We might want to know more....

On the "wet" part. It had rained very heavily the day before NC was discovered. I have not actually visited that location, but it was mentioned that the area was low-lying, sort of a low shoulder or worse. It is possible that some rain or runoff had remained in the low area, thus making it wet like a puddle, but not actually in the pond.

I do not think either situation bodes well for the removal of trace evidence from the body, but some could have been found. I am not completely sure about that location, but I know it was raining quite hard on Monday before the discovery.

CyberPro
Cyb, You should really go there. It will give you new perspective.

[jilly]

Maybe Clarke is no longer there - we know about his screw ups.

That's what I was thinking..... Head Honcho making an ID?

[raisincharlie]

Ohhhh!! Perhaps.

Had to be something about that shirt that caught LE's attention or, they had seen it before.

[momto3kids]

I also wonder if they determined which shirt he was wearing the night/morning Nancy left those scratches on his neck. It's possible there was some light bleeding from his neck, depending on how deep the scratches were, perhaps just enough to leave tiny spots on whatever shirt he had on THAT evening.

Maybe the Nike dryfit shirt?

[sunflowers]

RDD58....I am still wondering if like my 1st theory where I stated, she was not quite dead when he got her to the site, in horrible condition, but not dead, he dragged her to the other side of the white tarp, thought he finished her off and she tried to crawl to where she would roll over into the water?

Horrifying idea. we don't know when the kids normally woke up, but he absolutely wouldn't have taken them in the car while dumping their mother. i sure hope anyhow. that's unimaginable & unfathomable to me.

so, that would either speak to dumping nancy's body when doing his HT run around 4:20 a.m

OR leaving the kids at home & quickly driving over to the "dump site" closer to 7 a.m. Huge problem at that hour because it was light

[raisincharlie]

That's what I was thinking..... Head Honcho making an ID?

I dunno Jilly - could be when it comes to court things - he is the guy. Could have been, however hoping it was Dr. Radisch (sp) who actually did the autopsy.

[stillblv]

What he is saying is ludicrous!

Same for me when I got gas for the lawn mower. Maybe it spilled out on the back seat floor of my car but in no way was the smell so bad that I had to "clean" it in any way. The smell disappeared after a short while. And this happened a few weeks ago and he just decided to clean???!!! Belive me, there are more important things to clean....

I seriously cannot imagine why he would have gas in his car except to refill the lawn mower.
:liar:[/QUOTE]

And since when would you clean a gas spill with a vacuum?????

[SleuthyGal]

Had to be something about that shirt that caught LE's attention or, they had seen it before.

Yep! And the green dress, the shoes, the red top, the black jogging bra...

and again (I keep harping on this) but was Nancy's body found wearing a bra of any kind and, specifically, a jogging bra? I know none of us know, but this remains uppermost in my mind.

[CARYISHOME]

I took it as he had to walk toward the retention area to see the body. Not necessarily to the edge of the pavement. We retraced his steps while onsite.

There is a space of, maybe, five to eight feet from the road to the point where the ground drops rather sharply (say 2 feet) to the bottom of the retention area. The flowers being talked about are there, at the bottom of the retention area.

When I saw the area, it was a good 10 feet from the the drop-off areas to the actual pond.

So, he would have had to carry a body a good 15 feet to put her actually into the water. AND he would have had to lift her over the black plastic holding the water back.

No, I still believe it was a quick drop.

[SleuthyGal]

=stillblv;2608166]

And since when would you clean a gas spill with a vacuum????? I suppose only if you dumped some absorbing material to pick up the liquid and then used a vacuum to get that stuff up...but within a couple weeks after spilling, it would have dried up so again, MOOT point.

[SleuthyGal]

There is a space of, maybe, five to eight feet from the road to the point where the ground drops rather sharply (say 2 feet) to the bottom of the retention area. The flowers being talked about are there, at the bottom of the retention area.

When I saw the area, it was a good 10 feet from the the drop-off areas to the actual pond.

So, he would have had to carry a body a good 15 feet to put her actually into the water. AND he would have had to lift her over the black plastic holding the water back.

No, I still believe it was a quick drop.

We all agreed when we saw it that this was a quick 'drop 'n run' scenario. Just where she was found compared to how absolutely dense the foliage/shrubbery was around the pond area. This dumping was done in a hurry, from the edge of the paved area, in our humble opinions.

[sunflowers]

I'm with RD on this one.

From the side of the road it would take quite a few steps to get to the "pond", more steps than someone would want to take to dump a body. A dead body is heavvvvy.

I don't think she was found in the "wet" part.

how heavy would nancy's body be, do you think? if she normally weighed 120 pounds, do you suppose she's weigh closer to 200 pounds dead? even if bc is tall & an ironman, would it be difficult for him to carry her very far?

[raisincharlie]

how heavy would nancy's body be, do you think? if she normally weighed 120 pounds, do you suppose she's weigh closer to 200 pounds dead? even if bc is tall & an ironman, would it be difficult for him to carry her very far?

Why would she weigh any more dead than alive ?

[SleuthyGal]

how heavy would nancy's body be, do you think? if she normally weighed 120 pounds, do you suppose she's weigh closer to 200 pounds dead? even if bc is tall & an ironman, would it be difficult for him to carry her very far? hee. No a 120 lb body continues to be 120 lb when dead...dead weight of course. Awkward, but still only 120 lbs. He was strong; he could lift her and probably not throw his back out.

[sunflowers]

Yep! And the green dress, the shoes, the red top, the black jogging bra...

and again (I keep harping on this) but was Nancy's body found wearing a bra of any kind and, specifically, a jogging bra? I know none of us know, but this remains uppermost in my mind.

absolutely significant, i agree.

[sunflowers]

hee. No a 120 lb body continues to be 120 lb when dead...dead weight of course. Awkward, but still only 120 lbs. He was strong; he could lift her and probably not throw his back out.

oh, LOL, i had no idea. so, he actually could have carried nancy out of the house to the car trunk, and from the car trunk to where he dumped her without wincing when he was walking & "searching" for Nancy.

makes sense that he carried her

[CyberPro]

Horrifying idea. we don't know when the kids normally woke up, but he absolutely wouldn't have taken them in the car while dumping their mother. i sure hope anyhow. that's unimaginable & unfathomable to me.

so, that would either speak to dumping nancy's body when doing his HT run around 4:20 a.m

OR leaving the kids at home & quickly driving over to the "dump site" closer to 7 a.m. Huge problem at that hour because it was light

I have considered and rejected the possibility that the dump was done after, say, 4AM. I even considered the possibility that she was not dumped until after LE did the "look around" in the home. Like she might have been in the trunk of the car and was dumped later, but if this were true, I would think even a rookie LE would be able to tell someone as being extremely nervous about the body being discovered while they were looking around.

I feel strongly that the dump was in the early AM hours, well before daylight, and probably followed by a quick stop by the convenient HT store to stock up on detergent.

Unless there was an accomplice, which I do not believe at the moment, the kids were left alone while this trip was completed. After some time passed, the extra trips to the HT were made, and the phone call. Then BC the "White Tornado" performs his mighty feats of house cleaning, laundry, partial car detailing while juggling 2 young children with one hand tied behind his back. No problem at all if you are IRON MAN!

CyberPro

[jilly]

Nope I think they are all 'working' pathologists. The volume and budget probably dictate that he do his share of cases, though probably fewer than the others since he has administrative functions in addition.

Thanks for that SG. I guess I'm just used to seeing Clarke's name in the Young case and Eric Miller.

[EntreNous]

Unfortunately not in this case. It takes at least a few hours after death (and up to 1 or 2 days), per Lawrence Kobaliski, for the hair banding to start in a cadaver's hair. Any hair that Nancy shed as she was either in the house or put in the trunk or dumped would not (yet) show this banding pattern. No banding pattern = can't prove whether head hair came from a corpse.
Who is that SG? I've never heard of him.

We were taught the banding can start in as little as a couple of hours, especially during warmer weather.

If she was killed after the party, say around 1 am or so and was dumped at around 4 am I would say that's certainly enough time for banding to start.

[SleuthyGal]

oh, LOL, i had no idea. so, he actually could have carried nancy out of the house to the car trunk, and from the car trunk to where he dumped her without wincing when he was walking & "searching" for Nancy.

makes sense that he carried her

Yes he could. Remember this guy trained for Ironman competitions...11+ hours of continuous hardcore exercise using every muscle in his body. Oh yeah, he could do it, and with adrenaline running as it surely was that night...no problemo!

[sunflowers]

Why would she weigh any more dead than alive ?

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

[SleuthyGal]

Who is that SG? I've never heard of him.

We were taught the banding can start in as little as a couple of hours, especially during warmer weather.

If she was killed after the party, say around 1 am or so and was dumped at around 4 am I would say that's certainly enough time for banding to start.

Kobalinski is a noted forensic scientist expert who appears on Nancy Grace, Larry King Live, and other similar shows when they have such discussions of forensic evidence. It was his quote that I found that said it can start anywhere from 'a few hours after death up to 2 days, but there haven't been that many studies on it.' It would be GREAT if such evidence was found in this case. It would nail things down quite nicely. I'm sure the crime lab will be looking for such banding and will make note of it.

[momto3kids]

We all agreed when we saw it that this was a quick 'drop 'n run' scenario. Just where she was found compared to how absolutely dense the foliage/shrubbery was around the pond area. This dumping was done in a hurry, from the edge of the paved area, in our humble opinions.

I absolutely agree it looks like a quick drop....but what if she wasn't totally dead and he did dragged her to the brush or behind the white tarp and she was able to barely crawl, but no energy once she rolled into the silt pond. It wasn't much of an incline for her to have crawled from the brush area around the small basin..

[raisincharlie]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

I'm not picking at you - honest :) Lack of muscle tension would make a body seem much heavier than the actual weight is all.

[Star12]

We all agreed when we saw it that this was a quick 'drop 'n run' scenario. Just where she was found compared to how absolutely dense the foliage/shrubbery was around the pond area. This dumping was done in a hurry, from the edge of the paved area, in our humble opinions.

Indeed we did. And the report did say the body was found "in front of" the silt fence - not in back of, nor beyond, nor on the other side of. And there were tons of dried footprints around the area where we believe the body had been left.

[sunflowers]

I have considered and rejected the possibility that the dump was done after, say, 4AM. I even considered the possibility that she was not dumped until after LE did the "look around" in the home. Like she might have been in the trunk of the car and was dumped later, but if this were true, I would think even a rookie LE would be able to tell someone as being extremely nervous about the body being discovered while they were looking around.

I feel strongly that the dump was in the early AM hours, well before daylight, and probably followed by a quick stop by the convenient HT store to stock up on detergent.

Unless there was an accomplice, which I do not believe at the moment, the kids were left alone while this trip was completed. After some time passed, the extra trips to the HT were made, and the phone call. Then BC the "White Tornado" performs his mighty feats of house cleaning, laundry, partial car detailing while juggling 2 young children with one hand tied behind his back. No problem at all if you are IRON MAN!

CyberPro

i agree. He would have wanted to dump Nancy's body when it was dark & before there was much activity (cars, runners, etc). and before the girls woke up.

he would have added the HT trip so that he could "explain" why he was out at that hour, if anybody saw his car going or coming. plus, he needed to do some cleaning! apparently, a lot of cleaning.

[SleuthyGal]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

Well think of picking up a huge bag of ... potatoes or mulch or something that is heavy and awkward. That is 'dead weight' cause the thing cannot 'help' you in any way to lift it...it just lays there and you have to do allll the lifting.

[jilly]

Brownish/green vegetable material....I don't think they would have said "vegetable" if they didn't mean it. I think they could tell it was some type of vegetable. Something she ate the night beofre?

Had to come back to this post....

It sure sounds like it would be something edible otherwise they would have said vegetation, wouldn't they?
It could be something anybody was eating in her car and dropped on the floor. I know when I had small kids we were always eating in the car.

[momto3kids]

Horrifying idea. we don't know when the kids normally woke up, but he absolutely wouldn't have taken them in the car while dumping their mother. i sure hope anyhow. that's unimaginable & unfathomable to me.

so, that would either speak to dumping nancy's body when doing his HT run around 4:20 a.m

OR leaving the kids at home & quickly driving over to the "dump site" closer to 7 a.m. Huge problem at that hour because it was light

I just wish the HT trip and LTF could be uncovered before trial, but we know it won't be.
At least 4am has now been spoken about since I have harped on this since my 1st post.. He was up at 4am and it wasn't reading nursery rhymes.:waitasec:

[CyberPro]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

Sunflowers,

Unless you have picked up a dead or seriously unconcious person, you would not understand, but if it helps, think sleeping child. They are not helping you lift them at all, are bulky, and they tend to bend at the joints when you would rather they would not.

During my EMS days, I was supposed to pick up one end of a 13 year old who was nearly toxic from alcohol. She was not wearing a shirt, and had been sweating and vomiting. I placed my hands under her shoulders to lift her onto the stretcher, and when I tried to lift her, the shoulders flexed forward and her chest bent slightly in the center, and she slipped back to the floor. It was like picking up a slippery, heavy, rag doll.

Now, to this mixture, add:

1. Serious dose of panic
2. Generous amount of fear
3. 2 quarts of WTH have I done?
4. Double portion of "will I be caught"?

I feel sure that even with these factors, he could have picked her up with no problems, adrenelin is handy that way.

CyberPro

[EntreNous]

Kobalinski is a noted forensic scientist expert who appears on Nancy Grace, Larry King Live, and other similar shows when they have such discussions of forensic evidence. It was his quote that I found that said it can start anywhere from 'a few hours after death up to 2 days, but there haven't been that many studies on it.' It would be GREAT if such evidence was found in this case. It would nail things down quite nicely. I'm sure the crime lab will be looking for such banding and will make note of it.

Interesting. I'm going to have to look him up.

I guess that's what I get for not watching Nancy Grace. But if I did, I'd have to punch her. She grates so badly on my nerves.:crazy:

[CARYISHOME]

[QUOTE=jilly;2608112]Me too Caryishome. I actually got my dh involved and he drew me a diagram of how it could happen if he ran her over. I still didn't get it :crazy:and unfortunately I was interrupting his leisurely viewing of the History Channel and the last time I went back to him :talker: he told me we could go outside and he would demonstrate!:floorlaugh:[/QUOTE

LOL!!!!!! :dance::dance::dance::dance:

[SleuthyGal]

I absolutely agree it looks like a quick drop....but what if she wasn't totally dead and he did dragged her to the brush or behind the white tarp and she was able to barely crawl, but no energy once she rolled into the silt pond. It wasn't much of an incline for her to have crawled from the brush area around the small basin..

Hmmm...hopefully the autopsy report will shed some light on this, as well as any forensic evidence found on her, in the home, etc, etc.

[sunflowers]

I'm not picking at you - honest :) Lack of muscle tension would make a body seem much heavier than the actual weight is all.

thanks :)

[SleuthyGal]

Interesting. I'm going to have to look him up.

I guess that's what I get for not watching Nancy Grace. But if I did, I'd have to punch her. She grates so badly on my nerves.:crazy:

You can still catch him on LKL or Greta or other places!

[raisincharlie]

Indeed we did. And the report did say the body was found "in front of" the silt fence - not in back of, nor beyond, nor on the other side of. And there were tons of dried footprints around the area where we believe the body had been left.

Star - see here is my problem. Today WRAL reported about all these samples taken from Nancy's car - turns out, the truth is the samples were taken from the 325 i. Chief Bazemore reported the body was found in the drainage pond during the 10 pm presser on 14 July. Today the search warrant affidavits say she was found in the detention pond. Whose word to take ? The press who did not see the body in situ or LE who did ?

For my quarter - LE.

[jilly]

Now Jilly....don't you know better than to disturb a man who is viewing the History Channel?? :slap:

Do now! haha!

[EntreNous]

You can still catch him on LKL or Greta or other places!

Thanks, I will do that!

[CARYISHOME]

We all agreed when we saw it that this was a quick 'drop 'n run' scenario. Just where she was found compared to how absolutely dense the foliage/shrubbery was around the pond area. This dumping was done in a hurry, from the edge of the paved area, in our humble opinions.

Yes, we are always humble....

[sunflowers]

Sunflowers,

Unless you have picked up a dead or seriously unconcious person, you would not understand, but if it helps, think sleeping child. They are not helping you lift them at all, are bulky, and they tend to bend at the joints when you would rather they would not.

During my EMS days, I was supposed to pick up one end of a 13 year old who was nearly toxic from alcohol. She was not wearing a shirt, and had been sweating and vomiting. I placed my hands under her shoulders to lift her onto the stretcher, and when I tried to lift her, the shoulders flexed forward and her chest bent slightly in the center, and she slipped back to the floor. It was like picking up a slippery, heavy, rag doll.

Now, to this mixture, add:

1. Serious dose of panic
2. Generous amount of fear
3. 2 quarts of WTH have I done?
4. Double portion of "will I be caught"?

I feel sure that even with these factors, he could have picked her up with no problems, adrenelin is handy that way.

CyberPro

yes, thinking about moving a sleeping child helps me get the difference--muscle difference like RC said, plus the joints bending & the person being bulky & not able to "help".

Also you all are raising an excellent point about what a person can physically do if they are in big time panic mode. Adrenelin certainly would have worked in BC's favor. No wonder he looked so tired when he was "searching" & at the press conference

[CARYISHOME]

i've always thought that expression "dead weight" meant that somehow in death, our bodies became heavier & much more difficult to move & carry. Crazy idea, now that I think about it, but somehow I've always thought that was what "dead weight" meant. Clearly I should not plan any career moves!

Wow! Things are moving fast tonight! About body weight - well, I was thinking that, yes, a body weighs what it weighs, but "dead weight" is different.

I know I have tried to carry someone who is passed-out and couldn't help me before, it was very difficult. It is very different AND very heavvvvy.

[Skittles]

I'm a bit behind reading this thread, but I wanted to post a link to a Men's Nike Dri-Fit shirt. Comes in white. Perfect for tennis.

http://www.rei.com/product/771356

G'night, all.

[CARYISHOME]

I absolutely agree it looks like a quick drop....but what if she wasn't totally dead and he did dragged her to the brush or behind the white tarp and she was able to barely crawl, but no energy once she rolled into the silt pond. It wasn't much of an incline for her to have crawled from the brush area around the small basin..

How deep is that pond?

[momto3kids]

Can you only imagine what he is thinking as his mind is racing 500mph as to what story he told to who???
He is so off he can't remember he told what blue shoes she wore to jog in :waitasec:...but yet blue shoes were taken in the SW.

I know she could have 2 pairs...

A man who out of spite would rather see cockroaches running around his home rather than clean and satisfy Nancy....yep right on BRAD!
Rather scrub floors than play tennis...yep right on BRAD!

[raisincharlie]

Can you only imagine what he is thinking as his mind is racing 500mph as to what story he told to who???
He is so off he can't remember he told what blue shoes she wore to jog in :waitasec:...but yet blue shoes were taken in the SW.

I know she could have 2 pairs...

A man who out of spite would rather see cockroaches running around his home rather than clean and satisfy Nancy....yep right on BRAD!
Rather scrub floors than play tennis...yep right on BRAD!

They could have been Brad's shoes as well - blue and gray.

His wimpy story makes it sound like he was the one who lived in fear doesn't it ?

[momto3kids]

How deep is that pond?
About 10 days ago it was very shallow. I could see the bottom with salamander's running around the edge. Something small flopped a time or two...I was more scared than it was, what ever it was.:eek:

I would only guess, but 6-8" max?

[CyberPro]

Saddest Party Ever....

The suspected fingernail was listed as being pink.

We have speculated that the picture on the memorial web page on the saddest party ever were taken at the BBQ, although it was mentioned that they COULD have been taken in April when NC was thinking of leaving for Canada.

Did the picture show NCs hands? Were her nails polished pink?

Was it possibly a toenail? From the $200 pedicures?

CyberPro

[CARYISHOME]

Can you only imagine what he is thinking as his mind is racing 500mph as to what story he told to who???
He is so off he can't remember he told what blue shoes she wore to jog in :waitasec:...but yet blue shoes were taken in the SW.

I know she could have 2 pairs...

A man who out of spite would rather see cockroaches running around his home rather than clean and satisfy Nancy....yep right on BRAD!
Rather scrub floors than play tennis...yep right on BRAD!


I would be surprised if she did not have more than one pair of shoes. I would not consider myself "serious" but I have two pairs of shoes.

[momto3kids]

They could have been Brad's shoes as well - blue and gray.

His wimpy story makes it sound like he was the one who lived in fear doesn't it ?

Haha...could be RC! He does have yellow and orange ones I found on his website. At least one pair is! It stated the most expensive ones too..:mad:

He now has a peep hole looking out at the right front corner of his blinds in the front...He needs to be nervous...days of freedom are numbered IMO

OOPS...just reread what you said. YES, he was her slave and did all the scrubbing and hard labor while she enjoyed herself 24/7!

[raisincharlie]

Haha...could be RC! He does have yellow and orange ones I found on his website. At least one pair is! It stated the most expensive ones too..:mad:

He now has a peep hole looking out at the right front corner of his blinds in the front...He needs to be nervous...days of freedom are numbered IMO

Wonder if those rainbow flip flops were his then since he likes bright colors ? :crazy:

So tell me - Corso Como high heels - expensive or reasonable in price?

[momto3kids]

Saddest Party Ever....

The suspected fingernail was listed as being pink.

We have speculated that the picture on the memorial web page on the saddest party ever were taken at the BBQ, although it was mentioned that they COULD have been taken in April when NC was thinking of leaving for Canada.

Did the picture show NCs hands? Were her nails polished pink?

Was it possibly a toenail? From the $200 pedicures?

CyberPro

CP...all the photo's I have seen of NC none show her to have painted nails or really nails to speak of.
I wonder if his gf broke one the week NC was at HH??:waitasec:
Could be a child's also...little girls like those types of things.

If the picture is of Friday nite I think she wore black...so green dress has me confused if this is a picture of July 11th.

[momto3kids]

Wonder if those rainbow flip flops were his then since he likes bright colors ? :crazy:

So tell me - Corso Como high heels - expensive or reasonable in price?


You know RC...this might be what broke the camel's back. She found BC wearing her clothes behind her back....

[Star12]

i agree. He would have wanted to dump Nancy's body when it was dark & before there was much activity (cars, runners, etc). and before the girls woke up.

he would have added the HT trip so that he could "explain" why he was out at that hour, if anybody saw his car going or coming. plus, he needed to do some cleaning! apparently, a lot of cleaning.

ITA with each and every word.

And BC's "story" about Katie around 4 am and both of them being up to help he thought would add verisimilitude to his story just in case someone did notice he was up and driving about and going to HT.

I NEVER woke up my husband to help me take care of a child in the night. Wouldn't think of it, and he probably wouldn't have done it, anyway. So that's a stupid story, IMO.

Nancy was tired - she'd made ribs for DD's dinner party, wasn't feeling good anyway, was upset with BC, and had gotten home from the party after midnight. No way that woman was going to start doing laundry at 4 am. I would settle my child, and then go back to sleep myself.

And in his aff., didn't BC say "he" noticed after he got back from HT where he bought milk at 6:15 am, that they were out of laundry soap?. He had gotten up and something about anticipating the girls getting up he noticed the lack? So he says Nanct asked him to go back out for the soap, and he left again at 6:30 to go back to HT to get the laundry soap. Makes no sense. And he says NC called him and asked for the juice. So at 6:45, there he was at HT again, buying laundry soap and juice. (And then he drives home, puts car in garage, walks through the laundry room, then into the kitchen, where NC is supposedly getting breakfast for Bella, waiting on the juice. And then at 7:00 am, he hears a door slam as NC went off to go running. And he still hadn't seen Nancy. No idea what she was wearing.

Aw, ya know, none of this makes any sense. I can't even go on with this to try to make it come out reasonable. Waaay too inconsistant, and I'm waaaay too tired.

His stories are "close" to the truth. Just not close enough, IMHO, to be believable.

I'd have to hear the jury instructions before I decide if I would convict. But I believe he did it.

[raisincharlie]

You know RC...this might be what broke the camel's back. She found BC wearing her clothes behind her back....

I think the camel's back was broke a long time ago.

[raisincharlie]

ITA with each and every word.

And BC's "story" about Katie around 4 am and both of them being up to help he thought would add verisimilitude to his story just in case someone did notice he was up and driving about and going to HT.

I NEVER woke up my husband to help me take care of a child in the night. Wouldn't think of it, and he probably wouldn't have done it, anyway. So that's a stupid story, IMO.

Nancy was tired - she'd made ribs for DD's dinner party, wasn't feeling good anyway, was upset with BC, and had gotten home from the party after midnight. No way that woman was going to start doing laundry at 4 am. I would settle my child, and then go back to sleep myself.

And in his aff., didn't BC say "he" noticed after he got back from HT where he bought milk at 6:15 am, that they were out of laundry soap?. He had gotten up and something about anticipating the girls getting up he noticed the lack? So he says Nanct asked him to go back out for the soap, and he left again at 6:30 to go back to HT to get the laundry soap. Makes no sense. And he says NC called him and asked for the juice. So at 6:45, there he was at HT again, buying laundry soap and juice. (And then he drives home, puts car in garage, walks through the laundry room, then into the kitchen, where NC is supposedly getting breakfast for Bella, waiting on the juice. And then at 7:00 am, he hears a door slam as NC went off to go running. And he still hadn't seen Nancy. No idea what she was wearing.

Aw, ya know, none of this makes any sense. I can't even go on with this to try to make it come out reasonable. Waaay too inconsistant, and I'm waaaay too tired.

His stories are "close" to the truth. Just not close enough, IMHO, to be believable.

I'd have to hear the jury instructions before I decide if I would convict. But I believe he did it.

Sure makes me wonder who the real embellisher was. I don't think Nancy held a candle to him really in that department after reading this stuff he told LE and how he didn't answer certain things. Dumber than a rock he is, I think.

[momto3kids]

ITA with each and every word.

And BC's "story" about Katie around 4 am and both of them being up to help he thought would add verisimilitude to his story just in case someone did notice he was up and driving about and going to HT.

I NEVER woke up my husband to help me take care of a child in the night. Wouldn't think of it, and he probably wouldn't have done it, anyway. So that's a stupid story, IMO.

Nancy was tired - she'd made ribs for DD's dinner party, wasn't feeling good anyway, was upset with BC, and had gotten home from the party after midnight. No way that woman was going to start doing laundry at 4 am. I would settle my child, and then go back to sleep myself.

And in his aff., didn't BC say "he" noticed after he got back from HT where he bought milk at 6:15 am, that they were out of laundry soap?. He had gotten up and something about anticipating the girls getting up he noticed the lack? So he says Nanct asked him to go back out for the soap, and he left again at 6:30 to go back to HT to get the laundry soap. Makes no sense. And he says NC called him and asked for the juice. So at 6:45, there he was at HT again, buying laundry soap and juice. (And then he drives home, puts car in garage, walks through the laundry room, then into the kitchen, where NC is supposedly getting breakfast for Bella, waiting on the juice. And then at 7:00 am, he hears a door slam as NC went off to go running. And he still hadn't seen Nancy. No idea what she was wearing.

Aw, ya know, none of this makes any sense. I can't even go on with this to try to make it come out reasonable. Waaay too inconsistant, and I'm waaaay too tired.

His stories are "close" to the truth. Just not close enough, IMHO, to be believable.

I'd have to hear the jury instructions before I decide if I would convict. But I believe he did it.

This is why they say it is harder to remember the lie you told than the truth. He has his story all over the board on this.

I bet he is happy to read what he told the LE since he doesn't seem to remember himself or I bet he wouldn't have put half of what he did in his affidavit! He has totally contradicted himself.

I don't think the best of lawyers can get him out of this timeline and lies he has told.

[Star12]

Sure makes me wonder who the real embellisher was. I don't think Nancy held a candle to him really in that department after reading this stuff he told LE and how he didn't answer certain things. Dumber than a rock he is, I think.

No, Bubba, I think he's really smart. Just doesn't have any walking around sense, is all. And not even a smidgen of cleverness.

From all I've seen or read about BC, seems he doesn't even have much of a personality. At least, not one that I would find entertaining, nor engaging. Pfffffaaa, maybe he is dumber than a rock. He tries to lie, but screws himself up with his tangled web of deceit. :liar: <--Pinochinose

[Star12]

RC, wasn't it Sheriff Harrison who corrected the story that she was found not in the water?

[momto3kids]

Having no family and friends here he is going to be one lonely guy in prison. NO visitors! If SH stoops to this low of a task and does visititation then he is in the dumbest club right along with BC IMO

[raisincharlie]

RC, wasn't it Sheriff Harrison who corrected the story that she was found not in the water?

Dunno - I saw it in another press report - found in the dirt according to WRAL - haven't seen a direct quote from Sheriff Harrison.

[Anderson]

Saddest Party Ever....

The suspected fingernail was listed as being pink.

Did the picture show NCs hands? Were her nails polished pink?

CyberPro

Yes, I'm pretty sure her fingernails are pink in that shot. You can see that if you enlarge the photo.

[momto3kids]

Did anyone say there is a 3rd SW that was not revealed or was it determined it was released today? Sorry...of all days for company, shopping and cooking...:(

[Anderson]

Did anyone say there is a 3rd SW that was not revealed or was it determined it was released today? Sorry...of all days for company, shopping and cooking...:(

I believe that we don't know for sure. It seems that the computers are probably the 3rd SW, although they may covered under the office SW. RC suggested that it was possible that there may be one more that the media has not commented on. Someone will probably have more information.

[maconrich]

Y'all are good!! I've been in a brain blur reading the docs and know I'm going to have to read them several more times to try to get a decent grasp of things. Loved reading all the comments and ideas here though!

With the sw's, there are a few things that jumped out at me or at least are sticking in my mind. First off, I have to agree that BC's statements just feel off/don't click. From both of them getting up (and staying up) to tend to the child at 4am to him cleaning the house because he'd trashed it while Nancy was on vacation. I mean, seriously, she'd already cleaned up his mess and they'd already fought about it! So for him to use that as an excuse is just lame.

Add to it the fact the cleaning supplies were in her bathroom -- with the way they were getting along, he was cleaning her bathroom?? I don't think so. Plus, while I'm not doubting that he had plans for tennis at 9:30, I don't think starting heavy-duty cleaning a half hour before you're supposed to be there is something most people would do.

With the water, for now I'm having to go with what's in the documents - even though she could have been in water due to the heavy rains. But intentional or not it was probably to his advantage (possible destruction of some evidence).

Could he have used the rug to carry her? Wouldn't be a unique idea, and would have made it a little easier to carry her / move her around? And the veg material from the car... I'm inclined to think it came from the trunk area or at least wasn't something they thought was random (a spill from one of the kids eating, etc). But who knows.

The nail was interesting esp since NC got the expensive manicures and all. Surely if she had a broken nail it would be noticable and unusual, so I'm really hoping that they hit on something with that (some BC skin under it would be perfect!!) Likewise, her keys and phone (and potential prints like y'all mentioned) being found inside was suspicious.

With his car, everything to do with it bothers me. From hoovering just the trunk, to the grass on the passenger seat, to the hair. All of it. Forensically, bands seem iffy, but they'll know if it's her hair and probably if it was pulled out or fell out. --I don't want to think about how the hair could have gotten in those areas right now. The receipts could be interesting esp if he was wining and dining someone on the side.

Would luminol have been mentioned if they used it?? Could this process have done in the garage or would they have needed to take it elsewhere for testing?

Why would they take the NCSU graduation program??? That just seems a little random - unless they were they looking for names or something?

She asked him where her white shirt was?? uh, ok. :waitasec: Why on earth would he even say something like this??

And is it standard for four LEOs to be present during an initial 'missing person' incident? Or could the number have been more to do with JA's tone and suspicion (during the 911 calls and/or when the first LEO arrived)?

[SleuthyGal]

So tell me - Corso Como high heels - expensive or reasonable in price?

Define 'reasonable?' :wink: They appear to be in the $150 - $200 range.

[jumpstreet]

I bet he is happy to read what he told the LE since he doesn't seem to remember himself or I bet he wouldn't have put half of what he did in his affidavit!

Wouldn't BC have already had access to the home SW (and the associated affidavit from LE) prior to him writing up his custody affidavit?

[Star12]

I tend to buy shoes in the $100 range, and my parameters are comfort, fit and style, and my income has been quite modest. However, for their bracket, I wouldn't find $150 - $200 range unreasonable. Probably about the same for her running shoes. If I still wore heels, I would love to have these. Dara, $169. Link is from Zappos http://zapp.me/z7411378

The company uses boxes and tissue paper that has is recyclable, donates portions of sales to charities, leather is naturally treated. I think Nancy chose her shoes well.

[CyberPro]

I NEVER woke up my husband to help me take care of a child in the night. Wouldn't think of it, and he probably wouldn't have done it, anyway. So that's a stupid story, IMO.

...No way that woman was going to start doing laundry at 4 am. I would settle my child, and then go back to sleep myself.


Aw, ya know, none of this makes any sense. I can't even go on with this to try to make it come out reasonable. Waaay too inconsistant...


Star,

Yes, but you see, this is your husband you are talking about. You know, the average run of the mill husband. Not "SuperDad"! :) In truth, I have gotten up in the midst of the night to assist with a sick child, but I have to admit that I was a bit bleary eyed and not as long on patience as usual.

We have also had soiled laundry at strange hours, and there is NO WAY we are going to start the wash until a more suitable hour.

CyberPro

[fran]

FWIW, at the time the SW is served, LE must give the owner of the property a copy of the SW. Anything that is confiscated must be inventoried and a receipt given to the owner. Therefore, IMO, Brad and his attorney knew what was taken from the home prior to the custody hearing.

Brad most likely turned the copy of the SW and receipt over to his attorney. The attorney then, most likely, went over the SW with a fine-tooth comb to be sure LE stayed within the boundries of what was sought in the 'signed by a judge' SW. IF something was taken that was NOT included, it COULD be disallowed in the event of a court case.

I'm not sure IF with regard to the SW served at Cisco, Brad would have been privy to. I know Cisco would be given a copy of it and an inventory of anything taken. It WOULD have been prudent, on Cisco's part, IF they took anything like CD's photos, discs, and such, for them to copy them prior to LE taking them into their custody.

Seems Brad has got himself in a little pickle here. Inconsistant statements is NOT a good thing. A different story on the second day Nancy was missing. HIS story doesn't match EVERYONE else's with regard to how he NORMALLY acted. Brad said Nancy never took anything with her except a piece of gum, YET, everyone else said she ALWAYS took her keys and cell phone.

I know many have gotten concerned about those of us who've compared this to the Laci and Scott Peterson case, so I hate to say it, but..........Brad should have payed closer attention, it was the MOP and clean up that was suspicious to LE IMMEDIATELY. Looks as if old Brad was under suspicion from the get-go. JUST like SCOTT Peterson.

Cookie cutter scenario of a 'behind closed doors' abusive relationship. It's almost as if there's an epidemic of this. Perhaps it's just that people are now recogizing what previously was swept under the rug. Prior to the popularity of the internet and 24/7 news shows and programs like Greta and NG, just imagine how many of these guys got away with this. Just imagine. :(

JMHO
fran

[momto3kids]

Wouldn't BC have already had access to the home SW (and the associated affidavit from LE) prior to him writing up his custody affidavit?

I don't know if it's only the inventory taken or he gets to see the affidavits from the LE. I'm sure someone on here can answer that, since IDK.

He should've done much better and been consistent if he had used the timeline and statements from the 12th he gave to the LE if they were available to him when he did the child custody affidavit. He had several days to put it together. He knew it was coming up.

Look at this scenario ...

on the 12th he tells the LE he got up at 4am with Katie. Actually spent hours with her, took her to the home office, etc. Lie #1.:eek:

If there was EVER a reason to mention this, it would be in the custody affidavit. He does NOT mention it at all!! The purpose of that affidavit was to show how he was a good, caring father, but just happens to fail to remember this?:confused: IIRC, he states he was getting prepared for the girls to get up after he returned from HT at 6am

The point is he can't remember what he told to who and when he told it.

K&B should have caught this as well IMO! They all failed the test........

[macd]

Wonder if those rainbow flip flops were his then since he likes bright colors ? :crazy:

So tell me - Corso Como high heels - expensive or reasonable in price?

Seem reasonable to me.

http://www1.macys.com/search/index.ognc?SearchTarget=*&Keyword=corso+como

[fran]

http://www.fsmlaw.org/kosrae/code/title06/t06p04c43.htm#section_6_4304___procedure_

........................snip...................... ....

(1) The person seizing property pursuant to a search warrant gives to the person from whom or from whose premises he seized the property a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the seized property or leaves the copy and receipt at the place from which he seized the property.


(2) Promptly following completion of the search, the person executing a search warrant writes on the warrant a signed statement of action taken pursuant to the warrant, showing the date of the search, the person or place searched, and the person to whom he gave a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the property taken or the place where he left the copy and receipt. He delivers to the Court the warrant, with a written inventory of property taken, and the property seized.


(3) The seizing person writes the inventory in the presence of the applicant for the warrant and the person from whose possession or premises he seized the property, or in the presence of at least one credible person other than the applicant for the warrant or the person from whose possession or premises he seized the property following the seizing person's signed sworn statement that the inventory is a true account of all property seized by him pursuant to the warrant. Upon return of a search warrant and a request the Court provides a copy of an inventory to the person from whom or from whose premises the executing person seized the property and to the applicant for the warrant.

[raisincharlie]

http://www.fsmlaw.org/kosrae/code/title06/t06p04c43.htm#section_6_4304___procedure_

........................snip...................... ....

(1) The person seizing property pursuant to a search warrant gives to the person from whom or from whose premises he seized the property a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the seized property or leaves the copy and receipt at the place from which he seized the property.


(2) Promptly following completion of the search, the person executing a search warrant writes on the warrant a signed statement of action taken pursuant to the warrant, showing the date of the search, the person or place searched, and the person to whom he gave a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the property taken or the place where he left the copy and receipt. He delivers to the Court the warrant, with a written inventory of property taken, and the property seized.


(3) The seizing person writes the inventory in the presence of the applicant for the warrant and the person from whose possession or premises he seized the property, or in the presence of at least one credible person other than the applicant for the warrant or the person from whose possession or premises he seized the property following the seizing person's signed sworn statement that the inventory is a true account of all property seized by him pursuant to the warrant. Upon return of a search warrant and a request the Court provides a copy of an inventory to the person from whom or from whose premises the executing person seized the property and to the applicant for the warrant.

In this case one will note - a copy of the warrant for the house and cars was left at the residence since Brad was not present when the search was completed, standard. The Cisco warrant was left with a person who appeared to be in control of the premises - a representative of Cisco, name and address included, standard. The third warrant accompanied the siezed property to its new location - most likely a computer forensics facility - included is a list of things to be looked for and extracted, standard.

From this one can conclude the only warrant seen by Brad and lawyer friend would have been for the residence. Actually, I'm still wondering why the DA wanted these sealed. Very much less incriminating than those in the MY case served on JY. Strange given past performances.

[raisincharlie]

<snip>

Would luminol have been mentioned if they used it?? Could this process have done in the garage or would they have needed to take it elsewhere for testing?

Why would they take the NCSU graduation program??? That just seems a little random - unless they were they looking for names or something?

<snip>

And is it standard for four LEOs to be present during an initial 'missing person' incident? Or could the number have been more to do with JA's tone and suspicion (during the 911 calls and/or when the first LEO arrived)?

Just a few responses Maconrich

Luminol - use of it would not be referenced in the search warrant or the inventory. Recall that LE arrived at the house sometime shortly after 2:30 am - plenty dark to use luminol in the house and since LE had been in the house previously, areas of interest were already known. As to the car - in a nice dark garage - no reason to take it anywhere else for luminol testing if it was conducted.

Bet Brad would not have been happy - luminol and fingerprint collection leaves quite a mess. Another cleaning binge ?

The NCSU commencement program and photographs - as you surmise - names.

I would imagine the normal response was a couple of LEOs but given the stories they were told, additional Detectives probably arrived within short order - so did Carrie Clark. Seems as though there were a lot of people around very early on.

[fran]

What is interesting to me is the TIME the SW was served,.... in the middle of the night.

From what I was reading, normally LE serves SWs during daylight hours. The only time they would serve a SW any other time is IF they feel the person(s) that have access to what they're looking for, would destroy evidence.


FWIW,
fran

PS......:eek:Did you see that BRAD?:bang:

[runr]

Rainbows are typically brown leather flipflops. They are a big Southern attire for men and women and children all year round down here. They cost around $40. For FLIP FLOPS.

The brand is rainbow, not the coloration.

[raisincharlie]

What is interesting to me is the TIME the SW was served,.... in the middle of the night.

From what I was reading, normally LE serves SWs during daylight hours. The only time they would serve a SW any other time is IF they feel the person(s) that have access to what they're looking for, would destroy evidence.


FWIW,
fran

PS......:eek:Did you see that BRAD?:bang:

Seems to me, based on stories told to them, LE had a very large concern that additional evidence would have been destroyed given that it was determined earlier in the day that Nancy's death was indeed a homicide.

What I would like to know however, is since Brad was at SH's house and LE showed up over there at 3 am to get DNA samples, according to Brad - was the 325i over there as well or had SH came over and got Brad and the girls ? If the 325 was at SH's - was it searched there or did LE bring it back to the residence or did Brad bring it back with LE tagging along behind? Or did he have the X5 in use, but also had to return it ?

[raisincharlie]

Rainbows are typically brown leather flipflops. They are a big Southern attire for men and women and children all year round down here. They cost around $40. For FLIP FLOPS.

The brand is rainbow, not the coloration.

You sure burst my visual :crazy:

[fran]

Seems to me, based on stories told to them, LE had a very large concern that additional evidence would have been destroyed given that it was determined earlier in the day that Nancy's death was indeed a homicide.

What I would like to know however, is since Brad was at SH's house and LE showed up over there at 3 am to get DNA samples, according to Brad - was the 325i over there as well or had SH came over and got Brad and the girls ? If the 325 was at SH's - was it searched there or did LE bring it back to the residence or did Brad bring it back with LE tagging along behind? Or did he have the X5 in use, but also had to return it ?

I hadn't thought about his car search that night. That would account for us only having pictures of LE checking out Nancy's vehicle. Bet the media didn't know Brad was over at his friend's, at the time of the search. They probably found out later. So, no visuals.

Good catch RC! Bet Brad's friend was SURPRISED! ;)

JMHO
fran

[reddress58]

You sure burst my visual :crazy:
RC, you "ain't" cool unless ya have a pair of Rainbows. I have some, my kids do...love um. Wore them all summer...everyway. Ya need to get some, man, so you can be cool, too. :-) Bet you didn't think you'd learn practical information...such as fashion sense... on this site, did you?

[raisincharlie]

RC, you "ain't" cool unless ya have a pair of Rainbows. I have some, my kids do...love um. Wore them all summer...everyway. Ya need to get some, man, so you can be cool, too. :-) Bet you didn't think you'd learn practical information...such as fashion sense... on this site, did you?

Sure didn't think fashion sense would be learned but now I know that ladies should wear dresses to neighborhood bbq parties and everyone wears rainbow flip flops - even with dresses ?

Say do you recall anyone saying for sure what Nancy had on at the party ? I have heard black dress, not sure where that came from but LE did take a green dress and some high heels - is that really what she wore Friday night do you know ?

[reddress58]

Sure didn't think fashion sense would be learned but now I know that ladies should wear dresses to neighborhood bbq parties and everyone wears rainbow flip flops - even with dresses ?

Say do you recall anyone saying for sure what Nancy had on at the party ? I have heard black dress, not sure where that came from but LE did take a green dress and some high heels - is that really what she wore Friday night do you know ?
People are assuming a black dress because its what she had on the the picture labeled "saddest party ever". But I personally don't think those pics were taken that night. I'd vote it was an April party when they thought she was leaving for Canada. But i may be wrong. I sure wish one of her friends would verify this for us. Maybe NancyFriend? Can you find out for us? Thanks.

ETA-...even with dresses. I do.

[raisincharlie]

People are assuming a black dress because its what she had on the the picture labeled "saddest party ever". But I personally don't think those pics were taken that night. I'd vote it was an April party when they thought she was leaving for Canada. But i may be wrong. I sure wish one of her friends would verify this for us. Maybe NancyFriend? Can you find out for us? Thanks.

ETA-...even with dresses. I do.

I also think the "saddest party ever" was back in April when everyone thought Nancy was leaving. It seems to me LE has verified it - a green dress - I suspect they got this information from DD since she was interviewed the Saturday Nancy went missing. Le would have asked about where she was before and what she was doing before she went missing.

Thanks - I was wondering the source of that information. :)

Even with a dress huh ?

[ncnative]

I think I'll give my adult daughter a call. She works for Google in New York City. I'll get her to see if their top Googles for today are "Rainbow Flip Flops" and "verisimilitude".

[raisincharlie]

Daphne - wanted to give you a shout out and say thanks once again for the the floorplan - came in very useful when going through these warrants. So - great job - appreciate it ! :clap:

[Star12]

I think I'll give my adult daughter a call. She works for Google in New York City. I'll get her to see if their top Googles for today are "Rainbow Flip Flops" and "verisimilitude".

LOL!!! I was just going to google rainbows -- I'm soooo out of fashion -- I've been wearing crocs all summer! (dang - $80 for a pair of flip flops. I like shoes, but that's more than I would pay for flip flops!!!)

And verisimilitude -- :saythat: sorry......"the appearance or semblance of truth; likelihood; probability: The play lacked verisimilitude."

[Topsail Girl]

I also think the "saddest party ever" was back in April when everyone thought Nancy was leaving. It seems to me LE has verified it - a green dress - I suspect they got this information from DD since she was interviewed the Saturday Nancy went missing. Le would have asked about where she was before and what she was doing before she went missing.

Thanks - I was wondering the source of that information. :)

Even with a dress huh ?


RC for what it's worth, I too wear rainbows every day of my life. I work in an office where jeans and flip flops are the daily attire. I have 2 pairs of black, 1 dark brown, 1 tan, 1 white and 1 pink pair. Here in the south it is perfectly normal for a woman to wear flip flips with a casual summer dress. Rainbow Flip Flops are quite comfortable as well. Most of the styles are dark colored but my daughter does have a lime green pair - yuck.

[ncnative]

I had a prof at Meredith College who used the word "verisimilitude" frequently. She, however would have never worn a pair of Rainbows, being a crochety old English prof in olden days.

[raisincharlie]

RC for what it's worth, I too wear rainbows every day of my life. I work in an office where jeans and flip flops are the daily attire. I have 2 pairs of black, 1 dark brown, 1 tan, 1 white and 1 pink pair. Here in the south it is perfectly normal for a woman to wear flip flips with a casual summer dress. Rainbow Flip Flops are quite comfortable as well. Most of the styles are dark colored but my daughter does have a lime green pair - yuck.

Well I have to say ladies wearing dresses to a neighborhood bbq party seems a bit strange to me as well but to each their own. You southern ladies still have that flare for the cotillion. I understand.

Lime green - could be worse :)

[raisincharlie]

Topsail have you had a chance to go through the warrants in detail yet ? In particular, the residence ?

[SleuthyGal]

I guess since they took every last computer of his as evidence he probably had to go and purchase another one. Wonder if Cisco gave him a(nother) work laptop or not?

[Topsail Girl]

At this point we don't know if they belonged to Brad, Nancy or one of the girls, correct? Or exactly where they were found.

[jumpstreet]

From this one can conclude the only warrant seen by Brad and lawyer friend would have been for the residence. Actually, I'm still wondering why the DA wanted these sealed. Very much less incriminating than those in the MY case served on JY. Strange given past performances.

I wonder the same thing. Why exactly was it deemed appropriate to seal them in the first place? What has changed since now and then to compel the judge to unseal them (surely not just the passing of time, and pressure from the media...)

Side bar: I'm still confused as to whether the person being searched receives a copy of the affidavit or not? If yes, the BC (and attorneys) have had access for some time to LE's view of the 7/12 AM timeline as provided by BC... Otherwise, they are (just as of yesterday) receiving it?

[Topsail Girl]

Topsail have you had a chance to go through the warrants in detail yet ? In particular, the residence ?

I have not as of yet. I had things going on with Michelle's case yesterday and will again tomorrow so I'm going to make it my goal to read through the warrants in this case today. Is there something in particular within the residence that I should be mindful of? I plan to print the out for my own use. It just makes it easier for me to have them right in front of me.

[raisincharlie]

I have not as of yet. I had things going on with Michelle's case yesterday and will again tomorrow so I'm going to make it my goal to read through the warrants in this case today. Is there something in particular within the residence that I should be mindful of? I plan to print the out for my own use. It just makes it easier for me to have them right in front of me.

I can wait for you to have the time to read through it - no problem. Afew things that jumped out for me actually, when viewing the floorplan is where the key to the X5 was found and the collection of the grey seat covers (although there is no location given for these - the floorplan demonstrates a possible location in comparison to where that key was found) Just wondering about your thoughts on that in particular. Unfortunately there is no location given for where Nancy's cell phone was found in the house.

[ncnative]

Well I have to say ladies wearing dresses to a neighborhood bbq party seems a bit strange to me as well but to each their own. You southern ladies still have that flare for the cotillion. I understand.

Lime green - could be worse :)

RC, I'm an NCNative born and bred but I'll tell you I managed to choose to escape any and all cotillion/terpsichorean debutante and otherwise activities. My mom did make me take ballroom dance classes which included social graces, along with lessons on how not to sit while wearing a dress. (Ankles crossed, knees together so as not to preview the family jewels to any leering males of the 12 year old set.) We 12 year olds didn't give a rip at those lessons. We went for the prissy snacks and an excuse to meet boys. In the 1960s we girls had to wear dressed to school.

Some folks come down here to live, thinking that they will become one with the southern culture. The have the "verisimilitudes" going on in their minds about the appearances they should put forth in order to fit in. They may go and purchase Rainbow flip flops, rent beach cottages in Nags Head or Bald Head, put their kiddies in Ravenscroft, live in John Edwards' old Raleigh neighborhood and vie for their daughter's spot as a deb once she's gotten into Saint Mary's School, Peace or "Carolina". It just doesn't get past us natives though. We see through it. Besides, I never wanted the debutante thing, went to Meredith and NCSU, and forgot about my manners when I ate at Big Ed's and Mamma Dips. To that I'll add: who needs lip gloss when there's plenty of fried chicken grease left over from lunch?

[fran]

Do children wear Rainbows?

FWIW, the rainbows were found in Brad's car. SW items 26 through 33 are from the 2001 BMW.

Did you all notice item 31?

"31. Trunk floor (2001 BMW)"

:eek:

fran

[raisincharlie]

Do children wear Rainbows?

FWIW, the rainbows were found in Brad's car. SW items 26 through 33 are from the 2001 BMW.

Did you all notice item 31?

"31. Trunk floor (2001 BMW)"

:eek:

fran

Fran,

I'm not convinced the flip flops were found in Brad's car. If you will note - in the inventory LE has been very meticulous in identifying samples and collections from the 325 i by stating (2001 BMW, _______). I do not think the flip flops were taken from the car. JMO

[SleuthyGal]

I wonder which item of children's clothing they took and if it was for Bella or Katie?

I'm very curious about the 'piece of green plastic' that they sealed in an envelope.

[fran]

RC, I'm an NCNative born and bred but I'll tell you I managed to choose to escape any and all cotillion/terpsichorean debutante and otherwise activities. My mom did make me take ballroom dance classes which included social graces, along with lessons on how not to sit while wearing a dress. (Ankles crossed, knees together so as not to preview the family jewels to any leering males of the 12 year old set.) We 12 year olds didn't give a rip at those lessons. We went for the prissy snacks and an excuse to meet boys. In the 1960s we girls had to wear dressed to school.


OMyGoodness!

I'd forgotten all about the ballroom dance classes. We took them here in California too.

Of course, the classes didn't help much by the time we got old enough to go out dancing by ourselves and the 'surfer stomp' was the most popular dance around So. California. :crazy:

fran

[fran]

Fran,

I'm not convinced the flip flops were found in Brad's car. If you will note - in the inventory LE has been very meticulous in identifying samples and collections from the 325 i by stating (2001 BMW, _______). I do not think the flip flops were taken from the car. JMO

You may be correct RC, as they were the last item there.....Or it could be they weren't sure who's they were and what relevance they had.

I still think it's interesting the 'trunk floor,' though.

fran

[raisincharlie]

You may be correct RC, as they were the last item there.....Or it could be they weren't sure who's they were and what relevance they had.

I still think it's interesting the 'trunk floor,' though.

fran

Yes, the trunk floor is interesting. Also interesting that there was no odor of gasoline, cleaning products, or fragrance in the boot when LE looked in it that weekend. I wonder if there was a difference noted in the boot when the warrant was executed though. Something is saying there was a difference IMO.

[SleuthyGal]

where is the 'boot' located? Is it inside the trunk?

[raisincharlie]

where is the 'boot' located? Is it inside the trunk?

What you all call a trunk - I call a boot. Same thing. :)

[SleuthyGal]

What you all call a trunk - I call a boot. Same thing. :)

Ahhhhhh!! thanks.

[Star12]

wondering about the unidentified dried stain on the sheet........... if it had been blood, don'tcha think BC would have done something about it? Wonder just what it was....and why the mad launderer hadn't taken care of it???

[SleuthyGal]

wondering about the unidentified dried stain on the sheet........... if it had been blood, don'tcha think BC would have done something about it? Wonder just what it was....and why the mad launderer hadn't taken care of it???

Yes Star, that caught my attention too. Then again, Brad may not be disposed to noticing 'stains on sheets' since he has no problem sleeping in his yellow/brown ones. :eek:

[wirehair]

The dog that found the body could have easily wandered down the path that lead to the berm and got behind the silt fence to sniff the body. The depth of the water could vary at times from completely dry to several feet depending on the amount of rain, evaporation etc. Heavy unconscious firemen are carried out of buildings all the time during actual training or real fires. BC would have tremendous upper body strength from swimming. I wonder if she came into the house by the side garage door and he was waiting for her and hit her with the car just to knock her down so he could render other blows easily. He could have thought that this might prove the "hit by a car while running" theory. This might explain the hair under the car. Long ago I said I thought he might have dumped her over the silt fence in order to be more out of site and she crawled into the water instead of out of it. Or she just couldn't maintain consciousness long enough to get out of the water maybe due to head injury. I really admire all of the thought that has been tossed out on this site. Ya'll are really a bunch of verrrry smart sleuthers.

[reddress58]

LOL!!! I was just going to google rainbows -- I'm soooo out of fashion -- I've been wearing crocs all summer! (dang - $80 for a pair of flip flops. I like shoes, but that's more than I would pay for flip flops!!!)

And verisimilitude -- :saythat: sorry......"the appearance or semblance of truth; likelihood; probability: The play lacked verisimilitude."
I was going to buy a pair of Crocs but they are so d**m ugly. (no offense, star) But when I read they get stuck in escalators, that sealed it for me.

[reddress58]

where is the 'boot' located? Is it inside the trunk?
That's why I asked him yesterday if he was British. :-) "Boot" is a British term.

[fran]

I'd be curious if the dress LE confiscated had been recently laundered.

IMO, it's significant they took dna samples from the door knob, driver side, inside and out, of Brad's car. Wonder if Nancy's dna is mixed up there?

I know each one of these items don't point toward guilt on Brad's part. However, IMO, IF LE is able to find enough of these 'evidence' items, they COULD point to guilt. Like a big puzzle, putting them all together pointing to MURDER.

Bet Brad has been frantically looking all over the internet the past 24 hours and is NOT like the headlines.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

The dog that found the body could have easily wandered down the path that lead to the berm and got behind the silt fence to sniff the body. The depth of the water could vary at times from completely dry to several feet depending on the amount of rain, evaporation etc. Heavy unconscious firemen are carried out of buildings all the time during actual training or real fires. BC would have tremendous upper body strength from swimming. I wonder if she came into the house by the side garage door and he was waiting for her and hit her with the car just to knock her down so he could render other blows easily. He could have thought that this might prove the "hit by a car while running" theory. This might explain the hair under the car. Long ago I said I thought he might have dumped her over the silt fence in order to be more out of site and she crawled into the water instead of out of it. Or she just couldn't maintain consciousness long enough to get out of the water maybe due to head injury. I really admire all of the thought that has been tossed out on this site. Ya'll are really a bunch of verrrry smart sleuthers.

PERHAPS that's why Brad's attorney was trying to get the autopsy results released, because it COULD possibly be a hit and run. However, IF the hair etc found under the bumper and wheel well turn out to be Nancy's, he's DOA.

Wonder IF he thought that far ahead and actually tried to stage a hit and run? He just didn't know how to clean up well enough. Those forensic people are pretty thorough.

JMHO
fran

[CanManEh]

You know there are other ways for a blood stain to be on the bed sheet and i beleive most or all of the woman on here might know what i mean.....

[SleuthyGal]

Wonder IF he thought that far ahead and actually tried to stage a hit and run? He just didn't know how to clean up well enough. Those forensic people are pretty thorough.

JMHO
fran

I don't think he did think that far ahead or that in-depth. You'd literally need to be on your hands and knees with duck tape, picking up every piece of hair, lint, loose fibers, vacuum multiple times and dispose of/burn the vacuum and all its contents, and use nothing that smelled obviously of 'cleaning solution.' You'd need to dispose of/burn every single piece of evidence that you just picked up as you cleaned. I don't know what would get rid of blood and DNA and not smell AND not show up in a luminol sweep. Any fabric or carpet item with DNA would have to be disposed of/burned down to nothing but ash (and not on-site) to get rid of it.

As for your house, better the police should walk into a cluttered home rather than one that is completely spotless. A spotless homes screams, "I'VE JUST BEEN CLEANED!" You'd be better off with some clutter and some dust and the daily/natural dirt that appears and settles on stuff. We all live with a certain amount of flotsam in our lives. That is normal/natural.

A home that screams "I'VE JUST BEEN SCRUBBED CLEAN" combined with a statement that a husband has done the cleaning for the past 4+ hrs the morning a wife goes missing...a husband not known for EVER cleaning at home..well...it's gonna raise suspicion, ya know? It just does!
And while that doesn't prove murder in any way, it does set off the hinky meter for cops!

[jilly]

O/T is anyone else having a problem with continuously having to log on here? Yes, I keep clicking 'remember me'.

[SleuthyGal]

You know there are other ways for a blood stain to be on the bed sheet and i beleive most or all of the woman on here might know what i mean.....

A blood stain would be identifiable and noted as "possible blood stain." Since the detective could not make any kind of preliminary determination on what the stain was...I think we'll find that it wasn't blood.

IMHO.

[momto3kids]

The dog that found the body could have easily wandered down the path that lead to the berm and got behind the silt fence to sniff the body. The depth of the water could vary at times from completely dry to several feet depending on the amount of rain, evaporation etc. Heavy unconscious firemen are carried out of buildings all the time during actual training or real fires. BC would have tremendous upper body strength from swimming. I wonder if she came into the house by the side garage door and he was waiting for her and hit her with the car just to knock her down so he could render other blows easily. He could have thought that this might prove the "hit by a car while running" theory. This might explain the hair under the car. Long ago I said I thought he might have dumped her over the silt fence in order to be more out of site and she crawled into the water instead of out of it. Or she just couldn't maintain consciousness long enough to get out of the water maybe due to head injury. I really admire all of the thought that has been tossed out on this site. Ya'll are really a bunch of verrrry smart sleuthers.

Wow...you have given this another angle to view it...hit by a car while running! The only problem is he didn't appear to get all the hair removed if it is hers.

Last night EN and I both mentioned the same thing at the same time about her crawling and ending up in the water instead of out. Just barely alive and trying her hardest to get to a surface to hopefully be noticed, but went in the water instead just to critical to make another move.

[raisincharlie]

O/T is anyone else having a problem with continuously having to log on here? Yes, I keep clicking 'remember me'.

Ms. Jilly - i have not but have heard others who have. I don't know the answer but you might try pm'ing Chicoliving - I think she may have the answer for you. Is your current email addy the same as when you registered initially ? You might check that first as they just did some upgrade a night or so ago. Check with Chico. :)

[fran]

You know there are other ways for a blood stain to be on the bed sheet and i beleive most or all of the woman on here might know what i mean.....

IMHO, that would depend on WHERE on the sheet the 'stain' was. ie., IF it was on the side, it COULD be from 'blood splatter.'

JMHO
fran

[Star12]

I was going to buy a pair of Crocs but they are so d**m ugly. (no offense, star) But when I read they get stuck in escalators, that sealed it for me.

mine are the cleo's - comfy sole and two little straps. nearly nekkid feet, so incredibly comfy. yes, traditional crocs are muy uggy.

I've never heard of Rainbows. But I sure have seen a bunch of them being worn in Cary. I do wonder why they were taken. And why they were listed last, if they were not in the car trunk. And if they were in the trunk, Brad had just vacuumed it. :confused:

[Star12]

O/T is anyone else having a problem with continuously having to log on here? Yes, I keep clicking 'remember me'.

yes indeed. and I was very confused, because I tried logging in with my regular screen name instead of my WS name, and kept getting rejected. I NEVER should have had that last birthday! But it has happened about 3 times now. IDK, thought it was just me.

[SleuthyGal]

If your password is the same as your username you will have problems! Make sure you change your password.

[raisincharlie]

mine are the cleo's - comfy sole and two little straps. nearly nekkid feet, so incredibly comfy. yes, traditional crocs are muy uggy.

I've never heard of Rainbows. But I sure have seen a bunch of them being worn in Cary. I do wonder why they were taken. And why they were listed last, if they were not in the car trunk. And if they were in the trunk, Brad had just vacuumed it. :confused:

Don't fall into the trap of thinking the order in which things are listed in the inventory means anything Star. You will note one person is logging this stuff in - most likely centrally located in the residence and grabbing stuff to log - not following around the CCBI guys collecting it.

[Star12]

I don't think he did think that far ahead or that in-depth. You'd literally need to be on your hands and knees with duck tape, picking up every piece of hair, lint, loose fibers, vacuum multiple times and dispose of/burn the vacuum and all its contents, and use nothing that smelled obviously of 'cleaning solution.' You'd need to dispose of/burn every single piece of evidence that you just picked up as you cleaned. I don't know what would get rid of blood and DNA and not smell AND not show up in a luminol sweep. Any fabric or carpet item with DNA would have to be disposed of/burned down to nothing but ash (and not on-site) to get rid of it.

As for your house, better the police should walk into a cluttered home rather than one that is completely spotless. A spotless homes screams, "I'VE JUST BEEN CLEANED!" You'd be better off with some clutter and some dust and the daily/natural dirt that appears and settles on stuff. We all live with a certain amount of flotsam in our lives. That is normal/natural.

A home that screams "I'VE JUST BEEN SCRUBBED CLEAN" combined with a statement that a husband has done the cleaning for the past 4+ hrs the morning a wife goes missing...a husband not known for EVER cleaning at home..well...it's gonna raise suspicion, ya know? It just does!
And while that doesn't prove murder in any way, it does set off the hinky meter for cops!

And it did raise suspicion, didn't it, according to the SW affidavit!

BTW, don't forget that wonderful photo of the LE with his head in the trash can, and the one carrying, what, two evidence bags from the trash can area. Vac bag in one of them?

[wirehair]

If she was hit by a car, it was a hard bump inside the garage just to knock her down as she walked past it to get to the stairs leading into the house. The shoes could have been his. Maybe they were taken to look for debris where the thong part enters the sole and the bottom for prints. I wonder if they left the outside light on at the garage door when they were gone somewhere at night to have a light when they entered or if they went in throught the front door. I know that I would never enter that door at night with that large bush there. He could have turned the car around while she was gone so it would be facing out when she came into the door. It wouldn't have taken much to knock her down as she walked across to the stairs. He could have done all this without hitting the garage door. It would have happened so fast she would have had time to scream. The garage floor would be easier to clean up.

[Star12]

If your password is the same as your username you will have problems! Make sure you change your password.

Not the same. Just had a brain f*rt and tried using the wrong username. PW was correct. But I do wonder, like jilly, why it is giving us such a hard time.

[SleuthyGal]

BTW, don't forget that wonderful photo of the LE with his head in the trash can, and the one carrying, what, two evidence bags from the trash can area. Vac bag in one of them?

Oh yes I remember seeing that poor guy with his head down the garbage can. yuck! Do items confiscated from a trash can outside the home have to be listed as part of what was taken in the SW? I would think yes unless said can was sitting at the curb ready for garbage pickup.

[Star12]

Oh yes I remember seeing that poor guy with his head down the garbage can. yuck! Do items confiscated from a trash can outside the home have to be listed as part of what was taken in the SW? I would think yes unless said can was sitting at the curb ready for garbage pickup.

okay, what is this about not everything they take is listed on the SW inventory? What is the point of listing stuff on the inventory if some stuff is not. This has me confused.

[jilly]

Not the same. Just had a brain f*rt and tried using the wrong username. PW was correct. But I do wonder, like jilly, why it is giving us such a hard time.

Not the same password/username either. This is ridiculous - having to log in every 10 minutes it seems.
Shall check with Chico.
Thanks RC & SGal

[SleuthyGal]

okay, what is this about not everything they take is listed on the SW inventory? What is the point of listing stuff on the