Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #24

[chicoliving]

Continue here!

[The Saint]

O/T, does anyone know how to delete friend requests?
i've never heard of these people and they are still showing up in my
notifications. are they like that myspace guy that everyone gets as a friend request?

[jumpstreet]

Do you think Nancy's body is still sitting in the morgue?

Honestly, I don't know. I guess I'll say that just because there's a couple of Canadian news articles that reference an urn appearing in a memorial service a few days after the murder, in and of itself, doesn't convince me that her ashes were in said urn, or that she was in fact cremated by that time.

It does strike me as somewhat unusual that the body may still be in the morgue (but I don't know that I have anything to base that feeling on - for all I know it's completely usual in open/active homicide cases for the ME to retain the body for "additional processing" for an extended period of time!)

I will say for sure (and as SG alluded to) that it would definitely strike me as surprising that the body in an open/active homicide investigation could be processed, cremated, and handed over to the family for transportation to a foreign country, within a week or so of discovery, and yet the ME's report (well over a month later) still sits "incomplete".

This especially given the (glacier like speed, but apparently completely "normal") movement of everything else in this case: months for ME report to be completed...months for forensic analysis to be completed, etc - all completely normal. This amazes me.

Bottom line though, very little about this case strikes me as usual, so at this point, I really wouldn't be totally blown away with shock at anything, including the body remaining in the morgue for "thorough" processing, or pending further results, etc, or simply for some other "unknown to us" reason.

[EntreNous]

O/T, does anyone know how to delete friend requests?
i've never heard of these people and they are still showing up in my
notifications. are they like that myspace guy that everyone gets as a friend request?

:) That Myspace guy is Tom. He actually is the owner of Myspace and he is always the first to request friendship. So unless he gets deleted, which would be not so nice to do, he's everyone's friend. It's kind of an inside joke anyway. You won't ever get anything from him, i.e. he won't bug you. You're just in his house so to speak.

I've accepted friendship requests here from members and they're all friendly. It's no biggie. I'm sorry to say that I don't know how to delete one. If it's someone who is taunting you then maybe you can report it to one of the MODS.

[The Saint]

thanks, entrenous. i was trying to think of tom's name.

i was looking at the pictures on the memorial site and nancy was wearing her diamond stud earrings and diamond necklace at the party that night (titled "the saddest party").

i wonder whether these were the pieces of jewelry that her family asked for.
if they were still on her body, it would point away from a random killer (although not for certain).

[The Saint]

i figured it out. they have to be highlighted before hitting save

[CARYISHOME]

My thoughts after looking at the pictures. It is not a bed frame because 1) a bed frame would be longer than the height of the man carrying it. In the picture that does not seem to be the case. 2) Picure #9 shows me that what we are looking at is really the bottom of the bag. Logicllly, you would think the bottom of a bag would be closed. Something rectangular in shape is showing through the bottom of the bag. There is nothing metallic here. On first thought, I think a rectangular mop might be in the bag. It could be a valance placed in the bag, but I ust don't know.

[CARYISHOME]

Why would they take out the bed frame but not the mattress? Doesn't make sense?.....

[The Saint]

Honestly, I don't know. I guess I'll say that just because there's a couple of Canadian news articles that reference an urn appearing in a memorial service a few days after the murder, in and of itself, doesn't convince me that her ashes were in said urn, or that she was in fact cremated by that time.

It does strike me as somewhat unusual that the body may still be in the morgue (but I don't know that I have anything to base that feeling on - for all I know it's completely usual in open/active homicide cases for the ME to retain the body for "additional processing" for an extended period of time!)

I will say for sure (and as SG alluded to) that it would definitely strike me as surprising that the body in an open/active homicide investigation could be processed, cremated, and handed over to the family for transportation to a foreign country, within a week or so of discovery, and yet the ME's report (well over a month later) still sits "incomplete".

This especially given the (glacier like speed, but apparently completely "normal") movement of everything else in this case: months for ME report to be completed...months for forensic analysis to be completed, etc - all completely normal. This amazes me.

Bottom line though, very little about this case strikes me as usual, so at this point, I really wouldn't be totally blown away with shock at anything, including the body remaining in the morgue for "thorough" processing, or pending further results, etc, or simply for some other "unknown to us" reason.

in the case of michelle young, the ME's report that has been released to the public is missing pages (renumbered) and seems to be incomplete to people who understand autopsy reports.

it is thought that certain pages are being keep private to protect the investigation but the pages do exist in a file somewhere.

i think someone mentioned w/ nancy that important tissue or organs may exist in a freezer or in a jar but that her remains where released to the family
and that she was cremated.

they don't keep bodies indefinitely in the morgue. they must feel like photographs, tests, preserved organs or slides tell the story of what happened to nancy.

it would be hard to imagine a family having an urn without any ashes inside. they would have a big photograph on an easel and not an empty urn.

[SleuthyGal]

It does strike me as somewhat unusual that the body may still be in the morgue (but I don't know that I have anything to base that feeling on - for all I know it's completely usual in open/active homicide cases for the ME to retain the body for "additional processing" for an extended period of time!)

It would be highly unusual for a ME to keep a body in the morgue once they've determined COD and MOD (manner of death), which in the case of Nancy, they did immediately. There's no reason for them to keep a body once the autopsy is completed. Their entire job is figuring out COD and Manner of death (and of course TOD if possible). Once they've made their finding then they release the body to the family/funeral home--yes, before the written report is completed.

In cases where they were not able to determine a a COD from the state of the body itself (i.e. no obvious forms of trauma, or organ failure, etc.) then they have taken tissue samples from the various organs (which is standard), they run a toxicology screen from blood (or have it run for them at a lab), and they keep various bits 'n pieces of tissue and organs they might need for further tests, and they release the body and the COD is 'pending.' Once they determine the COD they work on the written report and complete it. This was the case in the Heath Ledger autopsy as well as Anna Nicole Smith autopsy. They knew it was drug/chemical, but they didn't know exactly what or how much was taken or whether it was suicide or accidental. The final reports came after the burial of Smith and cremation of Ledger.

The written report ALWAYS takes time to do because they simply have a large volume of reports to complete, transcribe, review, and tox screens have to come back if those have been sent out, and then added to the report. It's a paperwork thing that causes the delay. Most medical examiner depts are VERY busy places with a lot of bodies to autopsy. It isn't just homicide cases that get autopsies.

[The Saint]

Why would they take out the bed frame but not the mattress? Doesn't make sense?.....

maybe they cut samples out of the mattress.

the mattress could have had a waterproof mattress cover that was gathered as evidence.
someone saw brad and his mom buying new sheets at JC penney's.

[CARYISHOME]

maybe they cut samples out of the mattress.

the mattress could have had a waterproof mattress cover that was gathered as evidence.
someone saw brad and his mom buying new sheets at JC penney's.


i would be buying new sheets, too, if eveyone knew about my brown/yellow sheets...
:crazy::D

[momto3kids]

I still say the long package being carried out is a custom window valance on a cornice board with a draw cord, used for strangulation. I said it the 1st day the photo was released because of the length and boxed ends, and still do because of the other bag looking identical to a pillow size and shape. We had balloon valances that could be dropped to cover the entire window, some are not that long, but still have a cord.

I checked the bed frame dimensions and even a single bed frame length is 6'3".

Here are some photo's I could find that are similar to the valances I am talking about. None of these look long enough to cover an entire window, but these do have draw cords. All ot these valances can be put on a cornice board, some pictured are on rods.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/box-pleat-balloon-295.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/londonbow3.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/tailedballoon2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/blueballoon1.jpg

[raisincharlie]

Honestly, I don't know. I guess I'll say that just because there's a couple of Canadian news articles that reference an urn appearing in a memorial service a few days after the murder, in and of itself, doesn't convince me that her ashes were in said urn, or that she was in fact cremated by that time.

It does strike me as somewhat unusual that the body may still be in the morgue (but I don't know that I have anything to base that feeling on - for all I know it's completely usual in open/active homicide cases for the ME to retain the body for "additional processing" for an extended period of time!)

I will say for sure (and as SG alluded to) that it would definitely strike me as surprising that the body in an open/active homicide investigation could be processed, cremated, and handed over to the family for transportation to a foreign country, within a week or so of discovery, and yet the ME's report (well over a month later) still sits "incomplete".

This especially given the (glacier like speed, but apparently completely "normal") movement of everything else in this case: months for ME report to be completed...months for forensic analysis to be completed, etc - all completely normal. This amazes me.

Bottom line though, very little about this case strikes me as usual, so at this point, I really wouldn't be totally blown away with shock at anything, including the body remaining in the morgue for "thorough" processing, or pending further results, etc, or simply for some other "unknown to us" reason.


The body is not in the morgue, and I don't say that because of two news paper articles alone. Even Nancy's friends acknowledged the body was cremated. It is quite normal for a body to be released, even in homcide cases in a very short time. Michelle Young was buried within a week of her murder. The ME no longer needs the body once he has completed the autopsy, collected evidence and samples LE have designated and certified it. I posted a link to OCME - the procedures and requirements are available at the link. Did you not bother with it ?

There is nothing unusual about this case. An autopsy report not being completed is not unusual - does not mean the autopsy itself is not complete - it was completed the day it was started. The ME does not do testing - samples are collected only - the testing is conducted by the SBI lab and no murder takes precedence over another. It use to be up to 6 months for SBI lab results and forensics to be returned in NC - they have made great strides by reducing that to two months, so they say. It will be unusual if the results are actually back in two months.

[jumpstreet]

There is nothing unusual about this case...

:rolling:
Good one RC...

[raisincharlie]

I still say the long package being carried out is a custom window valance on a cornice board with a draw cord, used for strangulation. I said it the 1st day the photo was released because of the length and boxed ends, and still do because of the other bag looking identical to a pillow size and shape. We had balloon valances that could be dropped to cover the entire window, some are not that long, but still have a cord.

I checked the bed frame dimensions and even a single bed frame length is 6'3".

Here are some photo's I could find that are similar to the valances I am talking about. None of these look long enough to cover an entire window, but these do have draw cords. All ot these valances can be put on a cornice board, some pictured are on rods.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/box-pleat-balloon-295.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/londonbow3.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/tailedballoon2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/blueballoon1.jpg

If the cause of death is either strangulation or suffocation, I hope the DA goes for the DP. Both these causes take time, up to four minutes, a person has that amount of time to determine if they want to murder someone. If so, hope the perp winds up fighting for his own life.

[raisincharlie]

Mt3K - I have a question for you. Can you think back on the day you went by BC's house and he was in the garage with that other fellow, you mentioned there were some saw horses - did you happen to notice if what was on the saw horses was plywood or sheetrock by any chance ?

[ncnative]

RC, by the "...plywood or sheetrock..." mention, are you maybe hinting at sheetrock being replaced, due to a stain, indentation or whatnot? My enquiring mind...

Speaking of the SBI. My dad was a Special Agent for the North Carolina SBI. I learned a few things from him! I wish he were alive right now so we could have coffee and muse over this case, as well as Michelle Youn'gs murder.

[tarheellvr]

RC, by the "...plywood or sheetrock..." mention, are you maybe hinting at sheetrock being replaced, due to a stain, indentation or whatnot? My enquiring mind...

Speaking of the SBI. My dad was a Special Agent for the North Carolina SBI. I learned a few things from him! I wish he were alive right now so we could have coffee and muse over this case, as well as Michelle Youn'gs murder.


How ironic! My mother is retired SBI and our family contains attorneys, judges, etc. I have qualified insight as well........believe me I've asked LOTS of questions!

[ncnative]

How ironic! My mother is retired SBI and our family contains attorneys, judges, etc. I have qualified insight as well........believe me I've asked LOTS of questions!

Golly dang, Tarheellvr! Maybe my retired SBI agent Dad and your retired SBI agent mamma knew each other, or knew OF each other. Dad died in 2005, and he had been retired for a long time. He joined the SBI when his department was moved over from the NC Dept. of Insurance, back in the 1960s, if I am correct.

BTW, our family has a judge. Hmmm... interesting. We may have to do a little PMessaging later. I need to get going.

Those LE people have to do some really awful things to carry out their job duties, though. Some of the things Dad had to do made him cry. But, the crying didn't last long. Good old justice was served. I'm a laptop detective on WS, myself. Not a very good one, either. It's fun though.

[momto3kids]

Mt3K - I have a question for you. Can you think back on the day you went by BC's house and he was in the garage with that other fellow, you mentioned there were some saw horses - did you happen to notice if what was on the saw horses was plywood or sheetrock by any chance ?
I am a little foggy today...I just had oral surgery(my failed root canal from last week) :mad:, and a little doped up, but wanted to answer this for you.

I am not 100% positive, but I am about sure it was plywood and not sheetrock. The guy was doing some kind of sketch on a pad on top of the plywood and BC was nodding and taking s sip of drink.

Both cars were in the drive, so it was a tad difficult to see. I just remember what the other guy looked like, what BC was doing and seeing the sweet little girls cozy coupe pushed outside the garage.

As someone explained to me, if during the SW they cut the carpet, sheetrock or plywood, the homeowner will be the one to fix it.

Plywood? The only places I can think of a plywood repair is under the capet or under the hardwoods. I am sure there is more...but I'm not thinking too straight at the moment.

[raisincharlie]

I am a little foggy today...I just had oral surgery(my failed root canal from last week) :mad:, and a little doped up, but wanted to answer this for you.

I am not 100% positive, but I am about sure it was plywood and not sheetrock. The guy was doing some kind of sketch on a pad on top of the plywood and BC was nodding and taking s sip of drink.

Both cars were in the drive, so it was a tad difficult to see. I just remember what the other guy looked like, what BC was doing and seeing the sweet little girls cozy coupe pushed outside the garage.

As someone explained to me, if during the SW they cut the carpet, sheetrock or plywood, the homeowner will be the one to fix it.

Plywood? The only places I can think of a plywood repair is under the capet or under the hardwoods. I am sure there is more...but I'm not thinking too straight at the moment.


I remember my daughter explaining


No worries ! Sorry you are having troubles. Thanks for the information and yes you are correct, LE is not required to repair or replace. Get better ! :)

[jumpstreet]

I posted a link to OCME - the procedures and requirements are available at the link [...]

Thanks RC - yes, I read through that link you relayed... some good stuff there. Though I did not happen to see any information there on the typical turnaround time or target times for either body to family, or "completed" ME report.

I did see: The ME must make a record of his/her findings and of the circumstances of the death on the "Report of Investigation" form and on such diagrams, etc., as may be needed to completely document the case. These records are to be sent to the OCME within 14 days of notification of the death. The ME should keep a copy of all documents for his/her records.

This must not refer to the "completed" report, if indeed it is common for it to take at least 2 or more months for the ME to dot all the i's (given the volume).

In this case, I guess we're speculating that despite the volume, the ME was able to turn the body over to the family relatively quickly, but yet due to the volume, the "final" report may not be available for quite some time.

Is it possible that the report is fully completed, but the ME is merely sitting on it (not signing it), perhaps at the request of LE, to avoid forcing the judge to be requested to seal it, which may then result in those pesky Capital Broadcasting lawyers petitioning the court to unseal it. [ Sure, it could be the overwhelming backlog of bodies pouring through the ME's office, but seems to me, it could also just be a "sit tight on this one for a while" situation ] Is this possible?

It's enlightening to get a feel for the typical (in my opinion still incredibly long) turnaround times for ME, and forensics (and I appreciate they're better than they used to be). Mind you, I'm not expecting tv-show turnarounds in 'real-time', but the notion that a minimum 2 month turnaround time on forensic analysis just seems crazy long to me. [ Ah well, learn something new every day I guess ;) ]

OTOH, as we've mentioned before, it's also possible that all the forensics are back, and they revealed nothing conclusive/damning. It's possible they're back and indictment has indeed been already requested, and been denied. [ Also possible all the forensics are back, an indictment has been requested, and granted, but there is an intentional delay in the arrest ]

Finally, I guess it's possible that the forensics are still being processed. [ Side bar: Do we know if the forensics are back in the Young case yet [or is 2-year turnaround on evidence processing also not unheard of? ;) ]

I still maintain there are at least some elements of this case that are unusual. [ Though from a ME-turnaround time, and a forensic turnaround time, the info provided on "normal/typical" is appreciated and helpful to set my "patience" threshold appropriately :) ]

---
PS: SW's scheduled to be released in 1 business day...

[raisincharlie]

RC, by the "...plywood or sheetrock..." mention, are you maybe hinting at sheetrock being replaced, due to a stain, indentation or whatnot? My enquiring mind...

Speaking of the SBI. My dad was a Special Agent for the North Carolina SBI. I learned a few things from him! I wish he were alive right now so we could have coffee and muse over this case, as well as Michelle Youn'gs murder.

No hints Ncnative, just curious is all, enquiring, just as you :)

[SleuthyGal]

Feel better, Mom! Good visuals on the valances. I was thinking it might be a custom cornice in that brown paper sack.

[SleuthyGal]

I still maintain there are at least some elements of this case that are unusual. [ Though from a ME-turnaround time, and a forensic turnaround time, the info provided on "normal/typical" is appreciated and helpful to set my "patience" threshold appropriately :) ]

I'm curious what elements of this case seem unusual to you?

[Topsail Girl]

Mom I hope you're feeling better soon!!! Take care of yourself!

[Skittles]

I am a little foggy today...I just had oral surgery(my failed root canal from last week) :mad:, and a little doped up, but wanted to answer this for you.


You have my sympathy, mom. Hope you feel better soon! I had a root canal done earlier this year, and have more surgery scheduled.

[CyberPro]

I am a little foggy today...I just had oral surgery(my failed root canal from last week) :mad:, and a little doped up, but wanted to answer this for you.

...but I'm not thinking too straight at the moment.


Mom,

IIRC from the picture you posted about your last root canal, the doctor did not have much to work with, cut him a break! :)

Seriously, sorry to hear you are still having problems, I hope all is well now, and that you are feeling better soon.

CyberPro

[raisincharlie]

Mom,

IIRC from the picture you posted about your last root canal, the doctor did not have much to work with, cut him a break! :)

Seriously, sorry to hear you are still having problems, I hope all is well now, and that you are feeling better soon.

CyberPro

Cyber Pro - I did see your question on the previous thread, now closed. As to why LE would take the whole railing or bedframe - all I can think of that would warrant that is the possibility of some kind of spatter pattern was observed and it was taken for analysis of the pattern. Other than this possibility I can't think of another.

[CyberPro]

Cyber Pro - I did see your question on the previous thread, now closed. As to why LE would take the whole railing or bedframe - all I can think of that would warrant that is the possibility of some kind of spatter pattern was observed and it was taken for analysis of the pattern. Other than this possibility I can't think of another.

RC,

Thanks for the answer...that pretty much tracks with my thoughts, although there seems to be a strong belief that the item is a valence. I dunno, I must be stronger than I thought, I have carried bedframes on several occasions, including up three flights of stairs, and I never thought they were all that heavy. I guess I am still stuck on that.

CyberPro

[raisincharlie]

RC,

Thanks for the answer...that pretty much tracks with my thoughts, although there seems to be a strong belief that the item is a valence. I dunno, I must be stronger than I thought, I have carried bedframes on several occasions, including up three flights of stairs, and I never thought they were all that heavy. I guess I am still stuck on that.

CyberPro

No problem. I don't try to quess what is in those evidence bags. Hopefully if the warrants are released next Tuesday along with the inventories, whe shall have an idea. One thing I have noticed though, sometimes the inventories are very short - I don't know if this is because the media does not want to use up space or the time to scan the docs in or if LE has asked them not too. But for you locals - you can go to the Clerk of Courts and request a copy of the warrants once they are released. Not sure of the cost for copies but this can be done.

[pamlet]

RC,

Thanks for the answer...that pretty much tracks with my thoughts, although there seems to be a strong belief that the item is a valence. I dunno, I must be stronger than I thought, I have carried bedframes on several occasions, including up three flights of stairs, and I never thought they were all that heavy. I guess I am still stuck on that.

CyberPro

Maybe it's not just the weight alone .. but the weight over 6 feet of iron.. if it's a side rail it's at LEAST that long .. as those are the shortest ones available .. and the way the guy is carrying it... too loosely...

[RKAB]

Off the current topic but there was so much debate regarding Brad's income. This link is from 2006 but, maybe I'm reading it wrong, it seems to indicate that in order to pay $2000/month for child support, the gross monthly income would be ~$16,000, which would equate to around $192,000 annual income. Does anyone from North Carolina know if these tables are accurate and if this is, in fact, how child support is determined?

http://www.nccourts.org/Forms/Documents/981.pdf

I checked our Canadian child support tables for Alberta and it says someone with an income over $150,000/year would pay $2096 in monthly child support plus 1.32% of the income over $150K. Other costs associated with the upbringing is usually split 50/50 between both parents (sports, lessons, healthcare costs that aren't covered). Although their drafted separation agreement states that Brad would cover private schools for the girls, there really aren't a great deal of private schools up here.

Just throwing that out there while we wait for the SWs to be unsealed.

[The Saint]

one thing to think about in terms of cyberpro's theory that the tall bag contained
a bed frame is not only could it be only the foot or head portions but it could have come from a smaller bed, not an adult's queen size one.

nancy slept in the girl's room. did she sleep on a twin bed? a day bed or a youth's bed? maybe she slept curled up. it could have been a futon-style bed.

there was a white baby crib in a room where the kitchen was visible. i don't know whether this was the cooper house or not. nancy had the girls in the picture . she was holding the infant, katie.

could the tall bag contain part of a child's bed that was still in the room that was next to the kitchen?

there was a picture of nancy outside of a gold painted room with an iron chandelier (the dining room?). the shade did not have a valance in that room.
maybe the other rooms didn't have valances.

[momto3kids]

there was a white baby crib in a room where the kitchen was visible. i don't know whether this was the cooper house or not. nancy had the girls in the picture . she was holding the infant, katie.

could the tall bag contain part of a child's bed that was still in the room that was next to the kitchen?

there was a picture of nancy outside of a gold painted room with an iron chandelier (the dining room?). the shade did not have a valance in that room.
maybe the other rooms didn't have valances.

Where is there a crib in a photo, are you seeing them on NC's online memorial? I just don't see one and went thru each one and looked closely.

The photo's on the memorial site are from DD. I believe the inside photo's being seen, (not the beach home) are in DD's home. The rooms are a dark sage color and used in more than 1 room so IMO all were taken in DD home.

Besides, there are no grills in the windows in the photo's. DD home doesn't have window grills per the recent photo on the tax records. NC home has grills in the front and back.

In summary IMO the photo's are from DD and where taken inside at DD home.

[ncnative]

I've been thinking about Scott Heider's new blog. What prompted him to make that blog recently, foam about his values, put his children's photos out in the Internet world for all to see? (With his advertised background in criminal justice, you'd think he'd know not to put his young sons on the Internet like he did.)

The blog, its timing-- seems a little contrived to me, in a timely fashion to make sure that people know about it when they find out he was Brad's buddy, hosted Brad after the murder, knew that Brad got it on with his (Scott's wife), etc. etc. etc.

I think Scott needed to verify publicly that HEY, Scott Heider is a dad first, a big hunky athlete who needs everyone to know, and Brad's friend because Brad is innocent, else how dare I (Scott Heider) let him in my home to shelter him after the murder of his wife?

I think the blog is all about Scott and how Scott is covering his butt with forced pictures of goodliness to paint a public persona of himself. I think he forgot that he used transparent paint.

There's something nagging in the back of my mind about Scott Heider and where he comes to play in all this. Not to mention, what he REALLY knows.

[EntreNous]

I've been thinking about Scott Heider's new blog. What prompted him to make that blog recently, foam about his values, put his children's photos out in the Internet world for all to see? (With his advertised background in criminal justice, you'd think he'd know not to put his young sons on the Internet like he did.)

The blog, its timing-- seems a little contrived to me, in a timely fashion to make sure that people know about it when they find out he was Brad's buddy, hosted Brad after the murder, knew that Brad got it on with his (Scott's wife), etc. etc. etc.

I think Scott needed to verify publicly that HEY, Scott Heider is a dad first, a big hunky athlete who needs everyone to know, and Brad's friend because Brad is innocent, else how dare I (Scott Heider) let him in my home to shelter him after the murder of his wife?

I think the blog is all about Scott and how Scott is covering his butt with forced pictures of goodliness to paint a public persona of himself. I think he forgot that he used transparent paint.

There's something nagging in the back of my mind about Scott Heider and where he comes to play in all this. Not to mention, what he REALLY knows.
Thank you!!! I've felt the same way from the beginning. And through that transparent paint I see that heinous picture of him in his little effeminate girly speedos.

[The Saint]

i don't feel comfortable doing Grabs of photos off of nancy's friends' websites.
here is the link.

http://www.imorial.com/NancyCooper/Photos/

page2
nancy lifting baby in the air'
caption:
nancy and gabriela at sip n' see party

brass chandelier (not iron like i said earlier)


_______
also on pg 2

a photo called "acting silly" has an area rug that looks similar to the pattern hanging out of the tall bag

maybe it was an area rug --- if this is nancy's house

_______
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x178/77M33/coopercrib1.jpg
here is the crib shot from N&O's photo gallery.
the photo caption says "courtesy of the rentz family." it could have been taken by any of nancy's friends and given to the rentz family. it may have been taken in a home other than the one that belonged to the coopers.

[ncnative]

EntreNous, I'm glad you have been wondering about that blog of SHeider's too.

He obviously needs to show off his body, boast about his children (did you see where he is putting the little one into little kid triathlons?). He's making too much fuss over certain things, even regarding Nancy's murder and how they are convicting her husband, in his words. Timely, contrived, saying, "notice me!", I am being the best dad ever, a "role model" for my kids, as if being a muscle man is the goal for those little guys. They may want to grow up and be what THEY want to be, or feel like failures if they don't meet dad's expectations.

What kind of role model lets a man (BC) who had an affair with his (Scott's)then wife, and the childrens mother, stay with them in the Heider home right after a very suspicious murder of Nancy? I would have been reticent on that one. I'd have said, "You know Brad, this is a big thing and the children will ask me about it in years to come. Until we know more, I don't want to be involved..."

When I look back at the backgrounds of many big muscle guys with big, transparent egos surrounding their body, I see little boys who were scrawny, never felt their worth in other ways, maybe ridiculed or bullied. I'm just ruminating this blog of his, and how/when he presented it, in the midst of his buddy Brad's wife's murder.

[jumpstreet]

Off the current topic but there was so much debate regarding Brad's income. This link is from 2006 but, maybe I'm reading it wrong, it seems to indicate that in order to pay $2000/month for child support, the gross monthly income would be ~$16,000, which would equate to around $192,000 annual income. Does anyone from North Carolina know if these tables are accurate and if this is, in fact, how child support is determined?

http://www.nccourts.org/Forms/Documents/981.pdf

I checked our Canadian child support tables for Alberta and it says someone with an income over $150,000/year would pay $2096 in monthly child support plus 1.32% of the income over $150K. Other costs associated with the upbringing is usually split 50/50 between both parents (sports, lessons, healthcare costs that aren't covered). Although their drafted separation agreement states that Brad would cover private schools for the girls, there really aren't a great deal of private schools up here.

Just throwing that out there while we wait for the SWs to be unsealed.

I've wondered if the proposed terms of the draft divorce settlement were indeed "usual". At first glance, it seemed fairly excessive to me (without knowing of course the exact incoming level of BC). IIRC, the 2K/month in child-support was going to be in addition to a (yet unnamed) alimony also.

Maybe it was just the first-round of negotation, and (like most "first offers" of negotiation, it was intentionally one-sided in hopes of getting what one "really wants" in the middle). [ ie, I want to spend 5K for the car... I will offer the dealer 2K and see what happens... ]

Anyway, not sure if anyone else familiar can speak to whether the proposed terms (including some of the financial specifics) seemed unusual... or... completely customary (for a first salvo anyway).

[jumpstreet]

I'm curious what elements of this case seem unusual to you?

Hi SG!.. Good question, and I gave it some thought. Maybe it's "just me", but among the elements that strike me as "intriguing" include the fairly massive community search and interest... the ex-parte hearing and prompt decision...the subsequent "terms" of the current (temporary) custody agreement... the 911 call from friend on the day of to report... the "drama" contained in the public custody affidavits... etc.

If this case was one of the (sadly frequent) "typical" tragedies, then I'm not sure there would be quite as much multi-national media coverage on it, quite as much public interest, etc...

[ I recall seeing the google stats from shortly after the custody affidavits were published... iirc, the #9 highest search query issued through google that week was for Heather Metour... not #9 query of all the google queries from North Carolina... not the #9 query of all the google queries from the States... not the #9 query from all the google queries in North America..... it was the #9 query when compared to all google queries launched that week IN THE WORLD ]

Not saying there's never been a case exactly like this (has there?) and maybe the above example items are indeed characteristic of all murder cases (and I'm just naive, or easily intrigued...), ... but for what it's worth, they do strike me as being at a minimum "intriguing", and yeah, I'd go so far as to say "unusual".

Just MHO of course. Am I the only one who doesn't exactly put this case in the "run of the mill / garden-variety" category?

[SleuthyGal]

among the elements that strike me as "intriguing" include the fairly massive community search and interest

As far as a 'massive' community search I'm not sure what constitutes 'massive,' and I suppose that's a subjective thing anyway. The numbers referenced were something like a couple hundred volunteers in total came out over 2 days to search and the searching took place on Sunday 7/13 and Monday 7/14 and then she was found the evening of 7/14. Compared to Laci Peterson and the search for her, the Cooper search was tiny by comparison and only a fraction of the time, of course.

Let's see, who else had a community search involved? Oh, Lori Hacking of Utah, Stacey Peterson of IL (FBI involved there), Kim Whittan & daughter of AL, Susan Fast of FL, just to name a few. Anywhere from a couple hundred to thousands of people search, depending on how long the person is missing. So, no, the Cooper case doesn't seem very different than any other missing person case and narrowing that down, it's right in-line with missing 'spouse' cases and the effort to search.

If this case was one of the (sadly frequent) "typical" tragedies, then I'm not sure there would be quite as much multi-national media coverage on it, quite as much public interest, etc

This case is very typical. The media coverage is also typical. The national media picks up these stories depending on what else is going on in the news, how 'appealing' the victim is to audiences (sad to say), and other factors that we might not fully understand. There's media 'heat' for several days, maybe a week or two and usually the case starts to fade a bit, more so in the national news. Updates are given when there's info. Look at the Michelle Young case as one example. Now the Laci case of course stayed in the national news every day for months and on into the trial.

Not saying there's never been a case exactly like this (has there?)

See all the cases above and Google "missing wife" if you'd like to see many, many more. And that's just for the wife. We're not even talking husband or children.

Am I the only one who doesn't exactly put this case in the "run of the mill / garden-variety" category?

Don't know about that, but IMHO this case is extremely 'run-of-the-mill.' Unhappy marriage, estranged couple, wife goes 'missing' and is found dead...murdered...husband being looked at closely, there's an affair uncovered. Yeah...way way too common, unfortunately. This case falls right into the middle of the bell curve of missing spouse/murdered cases in terms of the details. Nothing uncommon about it AT.ALL. This one is plain vanilla, actually.

[raisincharlie]

Do you all seriously think that LE didn't seal the bottom of the "tall" package to protect whatever is inside from potential contamination, like all the other sealed up bags being carted out of the house ?

[SleuthyGal]

Not at the moment of that picture it doesn't appear to be 'sealed.' Maybe they did it moments later, I don't know. Also, perhaps the thing that drew their attention was in the middle or at the top and that part was fully covered. Hard to say, actually.

[raisincharlie]

Not at the moment of that picture it doesn't appear to be 'sealed.' Maybe they did it moments later, I don't know. Also, perhaps the thing that drew their attention was in the middle or at the top and that part was fully covered. Hard to say, actually.

If CCBI didn't seal it inside the house, then they may as well have left it there, if true it is not sealed, it will be thrown out and rightfully so.

[The Saint]

maybe the bottom that is scene is some sort of tarp that is covering the bottom of the actual object of interest.

sadly, some collection mistakes have been made on some murder cases.
just a few more days and we may know what that object is...

[The Saint]

i just read the forensic astrologer's blog last night and found it eerie.

could there have been another man involved in killing nancy or disposing of her body?
during marital strife,
wives complain about their husbands to their friends and husbands do the same.
but what if you spent the whole night ragging about your friend's wife and then he killed her within a matter of hours?

i would feel terrible and would be cooperating with the police.

[jumpstreet]

This one is plain vanilla, actually.

Wow - when you put it that way, it's amazing the NC case even made the news. ;)

[SleuthyGal]

Wow - when you put it that way, it's amazing it even made the news. ;)

Murder always makes the news in one form or another. And missing moms with adorable little kids 'play' to a national audience and into the fears of so many. The details of the crime itself are what I think will be 'plain vanilla.' Compare a crime like this to something like Jeffrey Dahmer, or a Casey Anthony, or a Ted Bundy or Manson family. Quite different, wouldn't you say?

Seriously...do a Google search and tell me the kinds of numbers and hits you get. Then do some searches to look at the statistics.

I suppose if one is determined to see this case as exceptional, rare, massive and other various adjectives, the fact there are hundreds of other similar cases out there will not alter that opinion. That in no way diminishes the importance or impact of THIS case, or any of the individual cases to the local community, the families, the friends, and people that care about those missing and/or murdered women.

[jumpstreet]

Murder always makes the news in one form or another. And missing moms with adorable little kids 'play' to a national audience and into the fears of so many. The details of the crime itself are what I think will be 'plain vanilla.' Compare a crime like this to something like Jeffrey Dahmer, or a Casey Anthony, or a Ted Bundy or Manson family. Quite different, wouldn't you say?

Good points. I guess, as you say, it's all "relative" anyway. :) In order to distinguish "usual/unusual", I guess it's helpful/necessary to establish the base/sample set for comparison. When compared to all criminal cases, my thought (but maybe I'm crazy) is that this one has some unique attributes (this is my main assertion).

If we compare it to all "wife-who-wasn't-getting-along-with-her-husband-and-is-now-found-dead" cases, then yeah, it's probably more (sadly) "usual" (at least on the surface, based on what we currently know) when compared with that sample set. If we compare it to "wife-found-murdered-as compared-to-famous-psycho-serial-killer-cases-in-history", then yeah, I agree, this one is probably downright "vanilla", as you say, and maybe even dull. :)

You responded to a couple of my examples of why I think the case has some unusual aspects, but not all (e.g. the ex-parte stuff, the custody affidavit assertions, etc). Even, as you say, the media attention isn't unheard of, but if we were to look at all the "wife-not-getting-along-with-husband-and-is-now-found-dead" cases that happen in North America, didn't this one get a little more media coverage than the average? [ If yes, then that's an example of something "unique/unusual" about it ]

Anyway, regardless, for me, I'm still of the opinion that there are some things about this case that strike me as intriguing if not unusual (when compared with other criminal cases). Maybe I'm the only one... (and again, just MHO).

No matter what, let's hope this one doesn't fall into the (usual or not) bucket of the "unsolved".

[SleuthyGal]

If CCBI didn't seal it inside the house, then they may as well have left it there, if true it is not sealed, it will be thrown out and rightfully so. True, that. I assume they are professionals who know how to do their jobs and that they have been well-trained so I'm sure they took the necessary precautions and steps. People still love to speculate though and if only we had x-ray vision! :wink:

[raisincharlie]

True, that. I assume they are professionals who know how to do their jobs and that they have been well-trained so I'm sure they took the necessary precautions and steps. People still love to speculate though and if only we had x-ray vision! :wink:

Kinda have a sour taste for CCBI following the Michelle Young case. Hope they learned from the mistakes made in that case.

X-ray vision would indeed be nice as I have a feeling that even if the warrants are released it will be the same as other cases, anything collected for forensic value and testing will not be listed in the inventory returned with the warrant.

[SleuthyGal]

And through that transparent paint I see that heinous picture of him in his little effeminate girly speedos.

Speedos are effeminate? Now I'm going to have to rethink my view of everyone from Mark Spitz in '72 up to and through the 90's and every other male Olympic athlete that wore them, as well as every triathlete that wears them. My world view may have just shifted, and not in a good way! :wink:

BTW, I don't see Scott Heider as heinous at all. He believes his friend didn't commit this crime; he may change his mind later, or maybe he won't. A man who clearly loves his sons and is nurturing and cares about them and was probably hurt very badly from a spouse who cheated on him (with at least one, if not more men). I reserve such (derogatory) terms for P.O.S. like O.J. Simpson, Mark Hacking, Neil Entwistle, etc, etc. A guy who likes to exercise and do Ironmen competitions? Pretty low on the 'horrible/heinous scale.' I'd rather spend an evening in his company than say, one of the Enron crooks or the killer of Michelle Young. At a minimum I'd probably get some good exercise/workout tips and a meal balanced with the right % of protein/carbs/fat. :smile:

[SleuthyGal]

Kinda have a sour taste for CCBI following the Michelle Young case. Hope they learned from the mistakes made in that case. I'm unaware of the details in the M.Y. case so yes, if mistakes were made I sure hope CCBI learned from them. Then again the DA is so reticent to prosecute that one wonders if he would ever feel comfortable to proceed without a video of the perp committing the murder and several eyewitnesses in addition. But hey, I'm not bitter. Much. :furious:

signed,
Still not over O.J. walking free in '95

[jumpstreet]

...anything collected for forensic value and testing will not be listed in the inventory returned with the warrant.

Wow... interesting. What real purpose does the inventory section serve then I wonder. If LE can omit listing anything that is determined to be of "forensic value", are they at least obligated to keep a separate inventory list somewhere of those items deemed to be of "forensic" value [ and therefore not listed on the primary inventory list (aka the "list of all non-interesting-things" list) ]?

[momto3kids]

OT...thanks everyone for the well wishes. :blowkiss: My decision to have the oral surgery this morning came after the costs of the dentist for the root canal, the periodontist for bone build up and then the crown. It was not even close to 100% confirmation this would work, I decided on the surgery with an implant...$2500+, with a closer guarantee.
I hope in my next life I go into dentistry...

Back to the NC case.....

[EntreNous]

OT...thanks everyone for the well wishes. :blowkiss: My decision to have the oral surgery this morning came after the costs of the dentist for the root canal, the periodontist for bone build up and then the crown. It was not even close to 100% confirmation this would work, I decided on the surgery with an implant...$2500+, with a closer guarantee.
I hope in my next life I go into dentistry...

Back to the NC case.....

Yuck! Hope you feel better soonest!

[momto3kids]

Maybe it's not just the weight alone .. but the weight over 6 feet of iron.. if it's a side rail it's at LEAST that long .. as those are the shortest ones available .. and the way the guy is carrying it... too loosely...

The shortest length of a bed rail is 6'3" and that is a twin bed.(191cm) A day bed uses a twin mattress, but not a bed rail for the mattress. It is a full 1 pc metal unit that bolts to the 3 sides, so that a trundle can be used underneath if one wants to have another mattress.

I keep looking at the man carrying it out and he does not use a hand to grasp it like one should have to.

I really did think like NCN? mentioned it might be a pole lamp, but after parading around here with mine and dropping it...it just can't be carried with out a grasp either.

The only other thing I keep thinking is a possible small rug or the BMW trunk liner/mat.

The length, width, weight and grasp is the key to this item. :waitasec:

I keep thinking the bag looking like a pillow might be associated with this long item, since they are coming out the same time and possibly from the same room.

[The Saint]

i think what sets nancy's case apart from many others is being able to read those affidavits regarding the custody. they really painted a very dramatic portrait of a troubled marriage, a marriage where the wife ended up being murdered.

a "missing jogger' was reminiscent of the runaway bride. people were wondering whether this would be the same outcome. i think people felt like the issues involved were things that they may have faced in their own lives during a divorce. why did nancy end up dead and they didn't? they might be feeling like they could have been nancy.

and seeing the lovely little girls who lost their mother, plus the drama of the victim's parents trying to keep them away from the man they feel killed their daughter.

it has all of the elements to hold the public's attention.

it is a story about money not buying happiness.

[The Saint]

what i wonder is whether any of the things carried out in bags reflected what nancy was supposed to get on the division of property.

could it be that during a fight, brad started tearing up
bella's bed
bella's armoire

or the treadmill?
____________

"The couple had divided up their marital property, with Bradley Cooper getting the washer and dryer, master bed, Bella's dresser, the coffeemaker and a 56-inch TV, while Nancy Cooper would get the dining room table and chairs, a treadmill, Bella's bed and armoire and the living room's flat-screen TV, among other items."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2864/story/1151638.html

[The Saint]

The shortest length of a bed rail is 6'3" and that is a twin bed.(191cm) A day bed uses a twin mattress, but not a bed rail for the mattress. It is a full 1 pc metal unit that bolts to the 3 sides, so that a trundle can be used underneath if one wants to have another mattress.

I keep looking at the man carrying it out and he does not use a hand to grasp it like one should have to.

I really did think like NCN? mentioned it might be a pole lamp, but after parading around here with mine and dropping it...it just can't be carried with out a grasp either.

The only other thing I keep thinking is a possible small rug or the BMW trunk liner/mat.

The length, width, weight and grasp is the key to this item. :waitasec:

I keep thinking the bag looking like a pillow might be associated with this long item, since they are coming out the same time and possibly from the same room.


daybeds come in many different designs and widths. it may have been a piece that was from the width and not the length.
it could have been a piece from a youth bed.
it might have been a thick ironing board

in the picture called "being silly" on the memorial site, if that is the cooper home, there are 2 things that the tall bag could have covered that are in that picture --- an accent rug behind nancy and something to the camera left of the red stroller in the back room on the right.

i can't tell what it is but it is the right height. it looks like a long mirror sitting on the floor. i think it is reflecting the red stroller.

[ncnative]

Mom, I'm not the one who thought the long bag contained a floor lamp. I'm with the comforter or custom window treatment, but really don't know.

Saint's picture of BC raging while destroying the things that Nancy was to get in the divorce settlement scared me!

As to Scott Heider, I didn't say he was "heinous" in any way. I say that he is trying too hard to put himself out there on his blog, which surfaced after Nancy's murder to overload the reader with his good dad traits, his photos of the children on the Internet, ...well, you can read what I (and he) wrote or not. He knows he's been spread over the 'net due to his being Brad's buddy, his wife's affairs, all enmeshed in this murder scenario. I think he's using his blog now to show himself the way he wants people to see him, plus he likes to show off his body, obviously.

In the end, I feel that Scott Heider may be a thread in the fabric of this event, and maybe Scott knows it too so he's working to put what he thinks will portray him as a daddy-guy, family man out there. He's working too hard at it.

[jumpstreet]

i think what sets nancy's case apart from many others is being able to read those affidavits regarding the custody. they really painted a very dramatic portrait of a troubled marriage, a marriage where the wife ended up being murdered.

a "missing jogger' was reminiscent of the runaway bride. people were wondering whether this would be the same outcome. i think people felt like the issues involved were things that they may have faced in their own lives during a divorce. why did nancy end up dead and they didn't? they might be feeling like they could have been nancy.

and seeing the lovely little girls who lost their mother, plus the drama of the victim's parents trying to keep them away from the man they feel killed their daughter.

it has all of the elements to hold the public's attention.

it is a story about money not buying happiness.

Well said Saint!

[ Glad I'm not the only one who thinks there's at least a few elements about this case that seem to make it 'somewhat unique' ] :)

[reddress58]

Speedos are effeminate? Now I'm going to have to rethink my view of everyone from Mark Spitz in '72 up to and through the 90's and every other male Olympic athlete that wore them, as well as every triathlete that wears them. My world view may have just shifted, and not in a good way! :wink:

BTW, I don't see Scott Heider as heinous at all. He believes his friend didn't commit this crime; he may change his mind later, or maybe he won't. A man who clearly loves his sons and is nurturing and cares about them and was probably hurt very badly from a spouse who cheated on him (with at least one, if not more men). I reserve such (derogatory) terms for P.O.S. like O.J. Simpson, Mark Hacking, Neil Entwistle, etc, etc. A guy who likes to exercise and do Ironmen competitions? Pretty low on the 'horrible/heinous scale.' I'd rather spend an evening in his company than say, one of the Enron crooks or the killer of Michelle Young. At a minimum I'd probably get some good exercise/workout tips and a meal balanced with the right % of protein/carbs/fat. :smile:
I couldn't agree with you more on ALL points! My male children swam for years in the 90's and early 2000's; and I take offense at anyone suggesting they are anything less than masculine. Small Speedos are what competitive swimmers typically wore and still do for diving. They just recently changed the style to more of a bike short type suit; much to male swimmers' delight everywhere. The boys didn't exactly care for the style, but everyone wore them, so they grinned and bared it.

I come from a whole family of competitive athletes; triathletes included. It is no more of an ego thing than a very competitive Type A business workaholic. They are driven mostly by beating and bettering their own times. Not so by the ego or body image. Many are quite skinny and prefer NOT to look muscular because it adds weight for up hill bike climbs and running. Just because we happen to suspect one particular athlete as being self-centered, narcissistic and calous, does not make the majority that way. We should not be assuming anything about SH. The circumstances do not point to him in committing the crime; and belittling him for something many men and women do...including creating a personal website...only makes our group look ignorant.

[momto3kids]

Mom, I'm not the one who thought the long bag contained a floor lamp. I'm with the comforter or custom window treatment, but really don't know.

Saint's picture of BC raging while destroying the things that Nancy was to get in the divorce settlement scared me!

As to Scott Heider, I didn't say he was "heinous" in any way. I say that he is trying too hard to put himself out there on his blog, which surfaced after Nancy's murder to overload the reader with his good dad traits, his photos of the children on the Internet.


NCN....that is why when I said pole lamp I put a ? after your name, because I don't remember who it was speaking of a pole lamp and thought it might have been you.

One thing I did NOT say at any time was SH was 'heinous', which you put in your response to me. I never brought SH name up yesterday and the only time I did was a few days ago when I mentioned what week he might have gone to the beach with his sons. But I never conversed about his swim suit, etc.

[ncnative]

Reddress and others, please do not get the post info from one poster to another mixed up and then make a comment derived from that mix. I said my thing, others said theirs. Yours and other comments seemed to brew several other posters' comments into one, which isn't how it was put out here, at least not by me. Of course, tone not being heard, nuance, etc., someone could have taken comments in a more harsh manner than was meant.

Not that it matters. Athletes and competition aside, I detest seeing men's skimpy Speedos being worn, on a personal level. I didn't say they were effeminate. :Justice: :nuts::viking::nuts:Someone else did. Somehow, this is taking on a "justice for Speedos" air. :floorlaugh:The gist of my message about Scott is in my posts.

[jumpstreet]

I definitely agree (with ncnative?) that not all triathletes who wear speedos and have their own web-blog are killers.
Side bar: Do we even know if BC ever wore speedos? :)

[ncnative]

Speedos are effeminate? Now I'm going to have to rethink my view of everyone from Mark Spitz in '72 up to and through the 90's and every other male Olympic athlete that wore them, as well as every triathlete that wears them. My world view may have just shifted, and not in a good way! :wink:

BTW, I don't see Scott Heider as heinous at all. He believes his friend didn't commit this crime; he may change his mind later, or maybe he won't. A man who clearly loves his sons and is nurturing and cares about them and was probably hurt very badly from a spouse who cheated on him (with at least one, if not more men). I reserve such (derogatory) terms for P.O.S. like O.J. Simpson, Mark Hacking, Neil Entwistle, etc, etc. A guy who likes to exercise and do Ironmen competitions? Pretty low on the 'horrible/heinous scale.' I'd rather spend an evening in his company than say, one of the Enron crooks or the killer of Michelle Young. At a minimum I'd probably get some good exercise/workout tips and a meal balanced with the right % of protein/carbs/fat. :smile:

1)There's the "heinous" comment, up above. I don't know who may have originally said heinous. 'Tweren't me. If it was, then, show me and: :viking::laughbounce:

2)MOM2Three: I saw your "?" . I was just clarifying that it 't'weren't me who said pole lamp. It's not a big dealio. It's hard to read nuance, tone, etc. through a message board post, isn't it? :blowkiss:

[ncnative]

LOL, Jumpstreet. Now we have BC wearing a Speedo? And someone thinks that someone said that there's possibly a triathlete with a web-blog who is a killer? I think someone(s) is playing that game where you whisper something in someone's ear, then they whisper it to the next person and so on, til you get to the end of the line, and BEHOLD!! It's an entirely different message than started out.:talker::talker::talker::talker::trout:
:rolleyes:

[jumpstreet]

:rolling:

[momto3kids]

1)There's the "heinous" comment, up above. I don't know who may have originally said heinous. 'Tweren't me. If it was, then, show me and: :viking::laughbounce:

2)MOM2Three: I saw your "?" . I was just clarifying that it 't'weren't me who said pole lamp. It's not a big dealio. It's hard to read nuance, tone, etc. through a message board post, isn't it? :blowkiss:

I went thru and saw the original poster who stated heinous, but wanted to clarify I never said it since your response was to me. That is all I was trying to do is seperate myself from the heinous comment.

Someone on here posted a beautiful stain glass pole lamp awhile back and I thought it might have been you. That was the reason I put the ?, because of my uncertainty.
I just remember posting how I tried to parade it around and didn't grasp it like the photo person didn't and then had to take it to goodwill because I slightly bent it when I dropped it.

Absolutely no problem NCN....

[momto3kids]

daybeds come in many different designs and widths. it may have been a piece that was from the width and not the length.
it could have been a piece from a youth bed.
it might have been a thick ironing board

in the picture called "being silly" on the memorial site, if that is the cooper home, there are 2 things that the tall bag could have covered that are in that picture --- an accent rug behind nancy and something to the camera left of the red stroller in the back room on the right.

i can't tell what it is but it is the right height. it looks like a long mirror sitting on the floor. i think it is reflecting the red stroller.

The 'being silly' won't be in NC's home. Her home has an immediate wall when you enter as we have seen when LE entered and video'd. The wall with the mirror, table and lamp sits there and would obstruct a front door entrance from where the picture was taken of NC. The keys in her hand also lead me to believe she had run in to someone's house and was 'being silly'.

[EntreNous]

Mom, I'm not the one who thought the long bag contained a floor lamp. I'm with the comforter or custom window treatment, but really don't know.

Saint's picture of BC raging while destroying the things that Nancy was to get in the divorce settlement scared me!

As to Scott Heider, I didn't say he was "heinous" in any way. I say that he is trying too hard to put himself out there on his blog, which surfaced after Nancy's murder to overload the reader with his good dad traits, his photos of the children on the Internet, ...well, you can read what I (and he) wrote or not. He knows he's been spread over the 'net due to his being Brad's buddy, his wife's affairs, all enmeshed in this murder scenario. I think he's using his blog now to show himself the way he wants people to see him, plus he likes to show off his body, obviously.

In the end, I feel that Scott Heider may be a thread in the fabric of this event, and maybe Scott knows it too so he's working to put what he thinks will portray him as a daddy-guy, family man out there. He's working too hard at it.

I'm the one who thought the item in the bag was possibly a floor lamp. I think I'm also the one who may have said that SH was heinous in the Speedo. Of course, that's just my opinion but it's just grotesque. No man in his right mind should ever wear one of those regardless of their fitness level.

[EntreNous]

I couldn't agree with you more on ALL points! My male children swam for years in the 90's and early 2000's; and I take offense at anyone suggesting they are anything less than masculine. Small Speedos are what competitive swimmers typically wore and still do for diving. They just recently changed the style to more of a bike short type suit; much to male swimmers' delight everywhere. The boys didn't exactly care for the style, but everyone wore them, so they grinned and bared it.

I come from a whole family of competitive athletes; triathletes included. It is no more of an ego thing than a very competitive Type A business workaholic. They are driven mostly by beating and bettering their own times. Not so by the ego or body image. Many are quite skinny and prefer NOT to look muscular because it adds weight for up hill bike climbs and running. Just because we happen to suspect one particular athlete as being self-centered, narcissistic and calous, does not make the majority that way. We should not be assuming anything about SH. The circumstances do not point to him in committing the crime; and belittling him for something many men and women do...including creating a personal website...only makes our group look ignorant.

Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone, my kids were swimmers too but the little bikini Speedos weren't allowed at their school. That was between 1998-2007. The boys on the team wore the ones that come to just above the knee.

The fact that I find them extremely unattractive is just my opinion. If it is a part of a school uniform I understand that, but a grown man, given the option of something more discrete but chooses the bikini to run in??? Well, it's off putting. And to me, in this case, it very much looks like it was his personal choice to wear what he wore.

And I don't think anyone here is attacking someone for being an athlete. The issue is the timing of SH's blog, in combination with some of his actions and comments which appear to be somewhat askew. Read his first entry, then read his affidavit, and take into consideration his closeness to BC after BC had an affair with his wife, etc.

[momto3kids]

I'm the one who thought the item in the bag was possibly a floor lamp. I think I'm also the one who may have said that SH was heinous in the Speedo. Of course, that's just my opinion but it's just grotesque. No man in his right mind should ever wear one of those regardless of their fitness level.

EN...It was you with the floor lamp. I wasn't sure who it was...I just remember our conversation about one, and my explaining how untalented I was in carrying it my house. :crazy:

I believe it still could be a pole lamp if it was a different style than the stain glass one you showed. My daughter just got this pole lamp with flexable arms on it. The guy carrying it could have put a few of the arms down and carried it this way without a grasp on it. It's not too heavy either, except for the base.

BC could have grabbed the cord out of the wall while she was lying down and tried to strangle her. This is another good possibility.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/31wcZTGG7VL__AA262_.jpg

[Anderson]

i think what sets nancy's case apart from many others is being able to read those affidavits regarding the custody. they really painted a very dramatic portrait of a troubled marriage, a marriage where the wife ended up being murdered.

a "missing jogger' was reminiscent of the runaway bride. people were wondering whether this would be the same outcome. i think people felt like the issues involved were things that they may have faced in their own lives during a divorce. why did nancy end up dead and they didn't? they might be feeling like they could have been nancy.

and seeing the lovely little girls who lost their mother, plus the drama of the victim's parents trying to keep them away from the man they feel killed their daughter.

it has all of the elements to hold the public's attention.

it is a story about money not buying happiness.

Jumpstreet and Saint, I agree with this completely. There are many aspects of this case that are unusual, most of which you have both mentioned. The media loves controversy and that is why it was so widely reported. I believe that there was international coverage at one point. NC's parents were able to get temporary custody immediately, enabling them to take the kids out of the country and the affidavits written by both sides created additional controversy. I believe that the 911 calls from NC's close friend are also unusual. The 911 calls gave the media a focal point for the drama at one point and then the same person said quite clearly in her affidavit that she believed that Brad had murdered Nancy. Has that ever happened before? Please let me know if it has.

As we dig deeper, I think that the case becomes more interesting and unusual. As Saint points out this is where much of the drama unfolded. NC could not work, so unlike many abused women (IF that is the case for those of you who are still uncertain), she was unable to plan her move easily. If she had remained silent about her domestic situation, then we would not know as much as we do. Many abused women do take that route. They don't want people to know what is going on because they are embarrassed or afraid. So, I think that the way that NC handled the situation was unusual in that respect as well. She had not been broken. That is why it so sad.

[SleuthyGal]

Just because we happen to suspect one particular athlete as being self-centered, narcissistic and calous, does not make the majority that way. We should not be assuming anything about SH. The circumstances do not point to him in committing the crime; and belittling him for something many men and women do...including creating a personal website...only makes our group look ignorant.

:blowkiss: :clap: :clap:

I looked at Scott Heider's website and I was impressed by it. Anyone who can compete in, let alone finish, triathalon events has my respect for their athletic ability. Just because Brad competed in Ironman events doesn't make the sport bad. Scott has adorable kids who I'm sure are the center of his world, as they should be. I see a devoted father and a man who is wanting to do the best for them. And if he wants to brag about his accomplishments (and theirs) he should! He's worked his arse off to compete. A great physique is one of the benefits of working so hard at the sport. Heck he's inspiring me! Maybe I'll get off the couch now...and then again, maybe I won't. :wink:

[EntreNous]

EN...It was you with the floor lamp. I wasn't sure who it was...I just remember our conversation about one, and my explaining how untalented I was in carrying it my house. :crazy:

I believe it still could be a pole lamp if it was a different style than the stain glass one you showed. My daughter just got this pole lamp with flexable arms on it. The guy carrying it could have put a few of the arms down and carried it this way without a grasp on it. It's not too heavy either, except for the base.

BC could have grabbed the cord out of the wall while she was lying down and tried to strangle her. This is another good possibility.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/LuvClaysVoice2003/31wcZTGG7VL__AA262_.jpg

Also lamps like this one and the one I posted are called torchiere lamps, because they are open at the top, closed at the bottom. It's basically a bowl or bowls like this one you posted which is ideal for catching any number of things, even a flung pair of Speedos. :crazy:

[Anderson]

:blowkiss: :clap: :clap:

I looked at Scott Heider's website and I was impressed by it. Anyone who can compete in, let alone finish, triathalon events has my respect for their athletic ability. Just because Brad competed in Ironman events doesn't make the sport bad. Scott has adorable kids who I'm sure are the center of his world, as they should be. I see nothing but a devoted father and a man who is wanting to do the best for them. And if he wants to brag about his accomplishments (and theirs) he should! He's worked his arse off to compete. A great physique is one of the benefits of working so hard at the sport. Heck he's inspiring me! Maybe I'll get off the couch now...then again, maybe I won't. :wink:

If the website had been up before August, then I would agree. However, I do believe that he is using the website to promote a certain image of himself. I am not suggesting that this necessarily means that he did it or helped at all. However, he knows that there is public interest in his activities and his relationship with Brad. He is using the blog, at least partly, to emphasize that Brad is his friend, he is good with children and he has not been proven guilty. The website also seems to be a way to demonstrate that SH is a good citizen. As I have mentioned before, his decision to include the communities/health organizations that he supports seems unusual for a website. You do see this sort of thing on resumes. However, this may be the norm for sports communities. Brad does not include a section like this on his website. Again, it is the timing that is interesting for me. It does seem like a response to public interest in his involvement. He continues to support Brad and I think this is, at least in part, an opportunity for SH to explain his actions.

[tarheellvr]

[QUOTE=momto3kids;2586817]EN...It was you with the floor lamp. I wasn't sure who it was...I just remember our conversation about one, and my explaining how untalented I was in carrying it my house. :crazy:


I posted regarding a floor lamp with a stained glass globe. We have one in our living room and I said the base of my lamp looks a lot like what is being carried in the bag. The base is brass, made to look as if "rolls" of brass are on top of each other and is moderately heavy. The pole itself is rather thin with the stained glass globe being almost as heavy as the lamp itself. The globe is large, round, with a fluted edge around the top. The colors are blues, greens, yellow, and a touch or cherry red. The globe is easily removable for moving the lamp.

I still contend the contents of the bag he is carrying looks IDENTICAL to the base of my floorlamp.

It came from Ethan Allen....approx. 12 yrs old.

[Henry7]

On another topic...does anyone have the link to the video with NC's three friends (I believe this might have been while she was still missing)? I can't seem to find it - Thanks!

[ncnative]

If the website had been up before August, then I would agree. However, I do believe that he is using the website to promote a certain image of himself. I am not suggesting that this necessarily means that he did it or helped at all. However, he knows that there is public interest in his activities and his relationship with Brad. He is using the blog, at least partly, to emphasize that Brad is his friend, he is good with children and he has not been proven guilty. The website also seems to be a way to demonstrate that SH is a good citizen. As I have mentioned before, his decision to include the communities/health organizations that he supports seems unusual for a website. You do see this sort of thing on resumes. However, this may be the norm for sports communities. Brad does not include a section like this on his website. Again, it is the timing that is interesting for me. It does seem like a response to public interest in his involvement. He continues to support Brad and I think this is, at least in part, an opportunity for SH to explain his actions.

On Scott Heider: THANK YOU, ANDERSON. You get what I was saying. The others do not. They have taken what I said and turned it into silliness. Thank you again, Anderson. You get it. I won't even answer to some of the silly misinterpretations that I have read.:bang: And just in case they STILL don't get it, I said that Scott Heider probably KNOWS something that we don't know. I NEVER suggested that he murdered NC. Good LORD.

And to me, his website smacks of many things, among them he is, like Anderson and I agree --using his website to publicly promote a certain image of himself, with very specific timing. Just in case. And many had something to say about the Cooper children "dangerously" having their photos all over the Internet. Now, certain of you are thinking that Scott Heider's having his kids on the Internet is just fine and fatherly. What's the difference there?

[momto3kids]

I posted regarding a floor lamp with a stained glass globe. We have one in our living room and I said the base of my lamp looks a lot like what is being carried in the bag. The base is brass, made to look as if "rolls" of brass are on top of each other and is moderately heavy. The pole itself is rather thin with the stained glass globe being almost as heavy as the lamp itself. The globe is large, round, with a fluted edge around the top. The colors are blues, greens, yellow, and a touch or cherry red. The globe is easily removable for moving the lamp.

I still contend the contents of the bag he is carrying looks IDENTICAL to the base of my floorlamp.

It came from Ethan Allen....approx. 12 yrs old.

Can you take a photo of your base? :) I'm thinking the base is too narrow at the bottom for a top heavy stain glass shade. I can be totally wrong also. Just think you might have solved the mystery for us.

EN posted a photo of a stain glass pole lamp which had a flat base and not one like you are describing.

The pole lamp could be exactly what was carried out. Maybe the stain glass was broken or removed to carry out so it wouldn't break, since it didn't look like it was a heavy item. I still cant' figure how it was carried with out a GRASP, which with a pole lamp IMO would be needed. Did he use the cord for strangulation, or the pole to knock her over the head? Could be.

[momto3kids]

On another topic...does anyone have the link to the video with NC's three friends (I believe this might have been while she was still missing)? I can't seem to find it - Thanks!

I'm looking H7...I just saw it a few days ago, but having a time locating it.

I did find this video that has many pictures of Nancy I had not seen. Want to pass it on. Click launch under Dan Abrams photo ..http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/25732503/

[The Saint]

Jumpstreet and Saint, I agree with this completely. There are many aspects of this case that are unusual, most of which you have both mentioned. The media loves controversy and that is why it was so widely reported. I believe that there was international coverage at one point. NC's parents were able to get temporary custody immediately, enabling them to take the kids out of the country and the affidavits written by both sides created additional controversy. I believe that the 911 calls from NC's close friend are also unusual. The 911 calls gave the media a focal point for the drama at one point and then the same person said quite clearly in her affidavit that she believed that Brad had murdered Nancy. Has that ever happened before? Please let me know if it has.

As we dig deeper, I think that the case becomes more interesting and unusual. As Saint points out this is where much of the drama unfolded. NC could not work, so unlike many abused women (IF that is the case for those of you who are still uncertain), she was unable to plan her move easily. If she had remained silent about her domestic situation, then we would not know as much as we do. Many abused women do take that route. They don't want people to know what is going on because they are embarrassed or afraid. So, I think that the way that NC handled the situation was unusual in that respect as well. She had not been broken. That is why it so sad.


i think that many murders occur under the circumstances called "A Perfect Storm;" the alignment of several things that may not have normally caused a violent outburst but when they happen all at the same time, it proves to be fatal for the victim.

judging by his and the other affidavits, brad seemed very angry that
nancy wasn't making any money. he was the sole breadwinner. he liked to complain about it but it was his means of control over her.

when she tried to make money painting homes, he didn't reward her, he punished her --- he withheld the weekly allowance for her and the girls.

brad controlled nancy through the money. he complained about her spending to others. to his circle of friends, brad portrayed himself as the poor, beleaguered husband whose wife was
spending all of HIS hard-earned money.

what if nancy's business took off and she didn't need to beg him for money anymore? the balance of power would be shifting and he knew it. she was slipping away.

if what both the forensic astrologer and claycat saw were true about the night of the party; nancy using the party as a networking opportunity and she came home with people's business cards as well as her own and fanned them out on table, brad may have gone ballistic.

nancy and brad had already fought about her getting paid for painting
(it must have embarrassed him that people knew about his withholding money form nancy), coupled with seeing the evidence of nancy's future life without him, it became extremely deadly.

he may have thought that nancy was complaining about him to all those people at the party. if he had had a hotheaded friend over while she was at the party and they were ragging about nancy for hours, and perhaps drinking, it made it
even more volatile.

i find it strange that instead of keeping bella's bedroom set together after a split, brad had the dresser on his list of what he was keeping.

maybe this was so bella would have furniture she recognized as being familiar as "hers" when she stayed with him. or could it be it was a "gimme" grab by brad designed to bug nancy?

some divorced parents have the same set of toys and kids' room furniture
as to make each new parental home seem familiar to the children.

[rmass]

On another topic...does anyone have the link to the video with NC's three friends (I believe this might have been while she was still missing)? I can't seem to find it - Thanks!

Try post #26 in the media links thread. The video embedded in the linked article may be what you are looking for.

[Henry7]

Thank you rmass - that was it!

[momto3kids]

To add to your post Saint..........

BC's affidavit………#165 The night before Nancy disappeared, we attended a neighbors BBQ party. We all walked home around 8pm to put the children to bed. I stayed home with them. Nancy remained at the BBQ.

MM's affidavit….#9 & #10 Brad and Nancy came over to our house the Wednesday before Nancy disappeared. Nancy asked us if Brad could come to dinner. Because Nancy had told us about Brad his sleeping with Heather, I think he felt awkward coming around.

DD affidavit…#17 At our house on Friday July 11th, Brad did not seem to understand what Katie wanted or needed-he complained he could not tell. Nancy, frustrated, told him to pay more attention to the signals, since Katie did not talk yet.

DT affidavit…#4 I was with Nancy at the Duncan's on Friday July 11th, 2008. I spent the last hour and a half of the party talking to Nancy. During that time she told me that she Brad were "back in the hate mode."

So in a NUTSHELL, this is what I am reading between the lines.
On the 9th, BC was hesitant to go to the Morwicks, people he knew well.
Just 2 nights later Nancy talks back to him in front of other guests..something I am sure most likely enraged him.
She follows him home to put the girls to bed because she senses he is PO'd since she talked back to him. Then she reminds him she IS going to paint at JA as well .
She goes back to the BBQ and talks to DT saying they are back in the 'hate' mode.
He gets more enraged while she is back at the BBQ and when she got home her moments were numbered as tempers flared between both of them.

[raisincharlie]

I still think she was done with him and had plans to leave. Don't think he liked that idea.

[SleuthyGal]

Mom,

So you think he KNEW as of that Friday night that she had plans to paint with JA the next morning? This is a key point in your theory because I could not understand why Brad said she went running around 7am *if* he knew she had plans at 8am. I thought and felt that he didn't know and that was a surprise to him (and what made his story about her leaving @ 7am sound suspicious...cause why would she leave around 7am if she had plans in 1 hr?)

Care to elaborate a bit more on your theory around that?

[reddress58]

Mom,

So you think he KNEW as of that Friday night that she had plans to paint with JA the next morning? This is a key point in your theory because I could not understand why Brad said she went running around 7am *if* he knew she had plans at 8am. I thought and felt that he didn't know and that was a surprise to him (and what made his story about her leaving @ 7am sound suspicious...cause why would she leave around 7am if she had plans in 1 hr?)

Care to elaborate a bit more on your theory around that?
He may have known this but felt he could give an hour to the run. He had to come up with something if the crime was committed in a heat of passion. JMO

[SleuthyGal]

He may have known this but felt he could give an hour to the run. He had to come up with something if the crime was committed in a heat of passion. JMO

I guess so. Would have been more 'plausible' if he had her leaving between 6am and 6:30am but then again, he needed to be at HT a couple of times, which I still maintain was truly a bad/stupid maneuver since it was out-of-character and not part of his normal activities.

[reddress58]

I guess so. Would have been more 'plausible' if he had her leaving between 6am and 6:30am but then again, he needed to be at HT a couple of times, which I still maintain was truly a bad/stupid maneuver since it was out-of-character and not part of his normal activities.
If I had to guess, I'd say he didn't know about the painting with JA with what info I know. But since Mom always has inside scoop, I try to make some sense taking her "givens" into consideration. I am grateful that she is able to give us these "hints". It gives us new food for thought and helps us develop ideas we may not have considered on our own.

[SleuthyGal]

Yes, I've learned I have to pay close attention to Mom's hints 'n tidbits! She challenges my brain that way. :wink:

[momto3kids]

Mom,

So you think he KNEW as of that Friday night that she had plans to paint with JA the next morning? This is a key point in your theory because I could not understand why Brad said she went running around 7am *if* he knew she had plans at 8am. I thought and felt that he didn't know and that was a surprise to him (and what made his story about her leaving @ 7am sound suspicious...cause why would she leave around 7am if she had plans in 1 hr?)

Care to elaborate a bit more on your theory around that?


SG....BC has contradicted his own affidavit in some statements he has made. This one came to light with me with all the comparisons I have done between affidavits.

They have 2 small children and their plans had to be discussed for Saturday morning. Lets say he said, remember I have tennis plans Saturday morning and she said you need to remember I have painting plans. Somehow this painting topic IMO was discussed.

He was also aware of her painting because he was withholding her $$ for that week because of her painting as some affidavits stated.

This is only my theory, not something someone has said.

[SleuthyGal]

SG....BC has contradicted his own affidavit in some statements he has made. This one came to light with me with all the comparisons I have done between affidavits.

They have 2 small children and their plans had to be discussed for Saturday morning. Lets say he said, remember I have tennis plans Saturday morning and she said you need to remember I have painting plans. Somehow this painting topic IMO was discussed.

He was also aware of her painting because he was withholding her $$ for that week because of her painting as some affidavits stated.

This is only my theory, not something someone has said.

Ahhh okay, thank you for explaining that. I agree totally that they would, at some point, need to communicate about the kids and plans and basic movements. I think hearing...errrr...reading your theory just helped me crystallize in my head that the assumption I've been making (and I think still am making) is that perhaps they had not (yet) discussed Sat. plans, that their communication was very 'off' due to anger issues (i.e. 'hate mode'), they were talking as little as they had to to each other (maybe little snarls and barbs and just kid stuff), and before they got a chance to each discuss the next day's plans and coordination, the fight happened immediately upon her arrival home and she was dead before that convo ever took place.

That's still my theory...at least for the moment. :wink: But you do have me thinking, and that could be a dangerous thing!

[Star12]

Ahhh okay, thank you for explaining that. I agree totally that they would, at some point, need to communicate about the kids and plans and basic movements. I think hearing...errrr...reading your theory just helped me crystallize in my head that the assumption I've been making (and I think still am making) is that perhaps they had not (yet) discussed Sat. plans, that their communication was very 'off' due to anger issues (i.e. 'hate mode'), they were talking as little as they had to to each other (maybe little snarls and barbs and just kid stuff), and before they got a chance to each discuss the next day's plans and coordination, the fight happened immediately upon her arrival home and she was dead before that convo ever took place.

That's still my theory...at least for the moment. :wink: But you do have me thinking, and that could be a dangerous thing!

And if she had planned to take the girls with her, he could have played tennis without being inconvenienced. I think in "hate mode" you just work around the other party and discuss as little as possible, because discussing the most mundane things can turn into a raging fight.

[momto3kids]

Ahhh okay, thank you for explaining that. I agree totally that they would, at some point, need to communicate about the kids and plans and basic movements. I think hearing...errrr...reading your theory just helped me crystallize in my head that the assumption I've been making (and I think still am making) is that perhaps they had not (yet) discussed Sat. plans, that their communication was very 'off' due to anger issues (i.e. 'hate mode'), they were talking as little as they had to to each other (maybe little snarls and barbs and just kid stuff), and before they got a chance to each discuss the next day's plans and coordination, the fight happened immediately upon her arrival home and she was dead before that convo ever took place.

That's still my theory...at least for the moment. :wink: But you do have me thinking, and that could be a dangerous thing!

Now to confuse the issue a little more...let's take this a step further!

Affidavits....
JA #8…she called NC cell 9:25, later called the home. She doesn't state what time exact she called the home, just that BC answered. It could have been immediately or waited an hour to see if NC responded to her cell call.

BC#176…9:15 I called to postpone tennis plans, and at 9:30 to cancel tennis plans since Nancy wasn't back and he had the girls.

BC#178…10:00 to 10:30 HP calls and I tell her Nancy is not home yet..Probably getting COFFEE

BC #179….states between 10:45 and 11:00 JA called. I told her Nancy was running about an hour late, maybe getting COFFEE

He tells JA she is running about an hour late…did he expect her home @ 10:00?
Did BC ever state he called or stopped by JJ?
Why then did he have tennis plans and postpone them at 9:15 if he knew she was to be gone to approx 10am per his affidavit and what he told JA?
Where is this tennis partner he was to play tennis with?

He literally has his times so messed up and what he says he said none of it matches! At this point he has himself confused without even seeing what he had just stated in his own affidavit.

[The Saint]

every guy i've ever seen in a triathlon wears a speedo during the swim and run portions. but if scott were truly interested in aerodynamic speed, he would wax at least his chest and stomach hair.

it is his comments about nancy's murder that really bother me.

[SleuthyGal]

Now to confuse the issue a little more...let's take this a step further!

{snip}

BC#178…10:00 to 10:30 HP calls and I tell her Nancy is not home yet..Probably getting COFFEE

BC #179….states between 10:45 and 11:00 JA called. I told her Nancy was running about an hour late, maybe getting COFFEE

He tells JA she is running about an hour late…did he expect her home @ 10:00?
Did BC ever state he called or stopped by JJ?

Why then did he have tennis plans and postpone them at 9:15 if he knew she was to be gone to approx 10am per his affidavit and what he told JA?
Where is this tennis partner he was to play tennis with?

He literally has his times so messed up and what he says he said none of it matches! At this point he has himself confused without even seeing what he had just stated in his own affidavit.

Yes, he has himself and everyone else confused I think. Certainly me! LOL. Obviously I think he didn't 'expect her home' at any time, ever again.

I think he SAID she was 'running an hour late' as a way of buying more time with the friends who called and I'm not sure if he was actually counting the hours in his head and realizing that he was, in essence, saying that Nancy had already been 'out running' for 3 to 4 hrs and I'm sure he wasn't expecting to have to tell L.E. that she left home around 7am. BTW, THIS is why I don't believe he KNEW about the plans she had to paint at JA's starting at 8am. Wouldn't he have realized that JA would CALL HIM when Nancy failed to show...at least eventually that morning? Did he think that JA would not notice or care that NC bailed on their plans and just let it go and not follow-up? If yes, he didn't know JA very well and/or simply didn't think any of this through. (more proof of lack of planning which puts another checkmark in the 'heat-of-the-moment' murder scenario).

I'm curious WHAT was going on in that brain of his because the timeline is ALWAYS something LE nails down hour-by-hour if possible, and they further cross-reference it with each involved person's activities, movements, calls, etc. But yes you've nailed an important detail: he tells 2 separate NC friends that she is 'probably getting coffee' and when he goes to search he does not search JJ (or at least doesn't say he did).

So, in regards to 'the coffee excuse' he's screwed up on the following; let's review:

1. Tells TWO separate friends that NC is 'probably/maybe getting coffee' and that's the reason she's 'running about an hour late,' 3 - 4 hours after she 'left to go jogging.'

2. KNOWS and TELLS LE as well as puts it in affidavit that NC runs WITHOUT cell phone, or any money or wallet or anything (but a stick of gum)....therefore the logical inference is she would not be able to purchase coffee even if she wanted to (unless 'Carrie the running partner' who had no plans w/Nancy, ran with money and bought her some coffee).

3. When he's out searching he does NOT go to JJ (her fave coffee place) to inquire if she was there at any point that morning.

So 'Nancy probably out getting coffee' = really stupid made up excuse AND it's so stupid he didn't even pretend to look for her at JJ when he was out 'searching.' (and believe me, if he had made a visit to JJ to inquire, he would have said so in his affidavit).

BONEHEADED maneuver. I rate that a -1 on the 'setting the timeline' scale. (The East German judge was not impressed. The Russian judge threw their scorecards down in disgust, and the Romanian judge is still scratching his head).

To put it in terms he would understand: it's like he released a product that has a section of software code that calls out another area of the code and then when the software instruction goes out to find it's 'call,' there's nothing there but a blank line....and for some reason the code was never QA'd, and it was put into production and sent out to customers.

REALLY bad form in both software engineering AND murder timeline planning. Only one will end in a prison term though. :wink:

[EntreNous]

Clever girls!!!! You ladies make me proud to say I'm a member at WebSleuths!!!

[momto3kids]

RED is my response..{snipped}

I think he SAID she was 'running an hour late' as a way of buying more time with the friends who called and I'm not sure if he was actually counting the hours in his head and realizing that he was, in essence, saying that Nancy had already been 'out running' for 3 to 4 hrs and I'm sure he wasn't expecting to have to tell L.E. that she left home around 7am. Remember he told FOX she left around 6:30, another srew up!

Wouldn't he have realized that JA would CALL HIM when Nancy failed to show...at least eventually that morning? Yes, and that is the reason he had her purse in the car, to show her intentions to leave when she got home.

Did he think that JA would not notice or care that NC bailed on their plans and just let it go and not follow-up? This is why IMO he killed her soon after she got home from the BBQ and had time to try to cover his tracks. He knew JA would be calling.


So, in regards to 'the coffee excuse' he's screwed up on the following; let's review:


KNOWS and TELLS LE as well as puts it in affidavit that NC runs WITHOUT cell phone, or any money or wallet or anything (but a stick of gum)....therefore the logical inference is she would not be able to purchase coffee even if she wanted to (unless 'Carrie the running partner' who had no plans w/Nancy, ran with money and bought her some coffee).


So 'Nancy probably out getting coffee' = really stupid made up excuse AND it's so stupid he didn't even pretend to look for her at JJ when he was out 'searching.' (and believe me, if he had made a visit to JJ to inquire, he would have said so in his affidavit).

BINGO




This is one area BC has backed himself into a corner with his own timeline and not being consistent.
Weren't we told LE was on Holly Springs Road at 6-9am handing out fliers? IMO it shows LE expanded the 7am just because he is telling so many different times, IE...Fox news 6:30 and HP @ 10am states NC is running late. Yes, he states he went to HT @ 6am, so they are also looking for someone to identify the sedan for possible time of dumping her body. IMO which was done much sooner.

[momto3kids]

BTW, THIS is why I don't believe he KNEW about the plans she had to paint at JA's starting at 8am.
:wink:

I do believe he knew about the painting....BC already knew she had been painting or was planning on doing it that week because a number of friends put this in their affidavits. NC had communicated with him at some time about the painting or he wouldn't have any knowledge of this to withhold her money.

This is also the week she asked the Morwick's if BC could join them for supper. He did join her at the BBQ. She was attempting to be civil to him even after she had her allowance withheld and she had come home from HH to his filth.


The 'hate mode' term was used when she returned to the BBQ . If she went home with him to put the girls to bed from the BBQ, which is after she had talked back to him in front of other guests, this is NOT acceptable to a person like BC. She tried all week to be civil and Friday nite she went to the house to TRY to discuss it but he was so furious with what she had just done at the BBQ, but this was the final straw in his opinion.

She sat and talked an hour and a half to one person? She was definitely upset for some particular reason later when she returned to DD that night when all the friends were up and mingling and she sat and talked about BC that long to ONE person.

What did he say or threaten Friday night? What happened for her to out of the blue on Friday night to say "HATE MODE" after she returned? It's not they hadn't been speaking to each other that week, just opposite, they were trying to do family things together.

Affidavits………
JF #10…..on July 6th once BC confirmed NC was receiving $$ from somewhere else he denied her the $300 she was to get on Sunday July 6th. He told her she didn't need any money now that she was getting it from somewhere else.

TH #11…..spoke with NC July 11th @3:40. NC was extremely upset with BC. When she asked him that week for money he said since she had made petty cash from a friend for painting that she could use that money for groceries and gas for the week.

HP#12i…The week before she was killed she had done some painting for JA to make some extra money for herself and BC learned of this and told NC he wasn't giving her any money because she already had made some.

[SleuthyGal]

Then if true that he knew about the 8am plans he sure did some piss poor planning. Although perhaps there is nothing that he could have done or said to assuage her fears and concern. She is "the key" to the case because through her worry and resultant calls to both BC and then 911, she established the timeline constraint that is now plaguing BC. {high fives, JA!}

[momto3kids]

Then if true that he knew about the 8am plans he sure did some piss poor planning. Although perhaps there is nothing that he could have done or said to assuage her fears and concern. She is "the key" to the case because through her worry and resultant calls to both BC and then 911, she established the timeline constraint that is now plaguing BC. {high fives, JA!}

This is why the LE and JA jumped to action...nothing made any sense to them. Remember the LE was at HT prior to early noon on Sunday the 13th. They could have gone late Saturday nite or early Sunday morning when management would still be there to find the video's LE needed.

This is exactly how someone who commits murder IMO gets themself caught, no consistency with their story or timeline. If like me, NC could have said between 8 & 9 giving herself a time span in case she did go jogging and if she was planning on taking the girls. Even though JA stated 8am that might have been the earliest NC said she could possibly be there. Also JA called at 9:25, not 8:25 checking where NC was at the time. BC also told FOX 6:30 which gives NC 30 more minutes to jog.

I agree, I have always said JA holds the key to this case, since NC is no longer here and BC LIES!! JA stuck her neck out for her best friend instead of thinking, "I don't want to get involved and what he might do to me if I do!" I am sure it is NO bed of roses for her, but someone had to step forward. JA needs to be commended for doing this!

[reddress58]

If BC killed Nancy in a fit of rage, that anger most likely had been escalating over several days before her life ended. There is one point of tension that seems to stand out most in all her friends’ affidavits: Nancy’s painting for money. I say point of tension, because both were angry with each other over the matter.

Excerpt from Jennifer Fetterolf’s affidavit. # 10:

“When I saw her on Tuesday, July 8th she told me how angry Brad was [my bolding] because she was helping her friend Jessica paint.”

Excerpt from Diana Duncan’s affidavit #16:

“At our house on Friday, July 11th, Nancy told me that she was very angry [my bolding] with Brad because he had cut off her allowance because she had made a little money painting.

Mto3k, I do think Brad knew she was going to continue painting, but I’m not convinced he knew exactly what day and/or what time her plans with JA were made for. My question is: Why would HE be angry? Her painting had nothing to do with him and would actually keep her from asking for money more often.

Jennifer continues in #10 of her affidavit:

“She told Brad that she was helping Jessica paint so she could earn extra money for food for the girls. [my bolding] Once he confirmed that she was receiving money from somewhere else he denied her the $300 she was to get on Sunday, July 6th and told her she didn’t need any money now that she was getting it from somewhere else.”

I think here lies the answer to my question: Nancy told other people –at least the Adams as far as he knew- that Brad did not provide food for his children. Think of how embarrassed and humiliated a self-serving Narcissist who wants the whole world to know how successful he is would be. Your wife telling mutual friends you would not provide food for your children could be that proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. Especially if he found out she was going to continue painting making him look even more the creep. Maybe he thought that by taking away her weekly allowance (punishment/control) she would beg for the money back, stop painting and put him back into good graces with the Adams. She refuses to stop. (his loss of control over her)

We have no idea if Brad knew Nancy to