View Full Version : NEW Haunting Evidence on JBR tonight Saturday
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 07:11 PM
I am not trying to cause controversy because I think by now most of us have a theory about what happened to JBR in her own home.
TRU TV ( formerly Court TV) will air a new season of " Haunting Evidence" with Carla Baron and the psychic team tonight at 9 ET and JonBenet's case is their featured story.
I have seen some pretty remarkable things out of the psychics on " Haunting Evidence" when they are allowed to do their thing without family interference. This is not a recyled show, somehow.. I guess they asked the owners for access to the house of torture and death?
I suspect it will be an IDI based show, since Mary Lacy has said the family is ruled out.. but who knows? If these people really are psychic, it could be interesting.
I am posting this without any pre-conceived ideas as to how good or bad the show will be, or how interesting or uninteresting.. I'm mostly just glad that JonBenet has not been forgotten and I hope the show does not get the known facts wrong. When mainstream media mangles the case facts, it is an insult to the memory of JonBenet.
Watching it now, what BS! SMit is on too. Typical IDI show. At the beginning they said that the R's were cleared by Lacy so they are hoping to get visions of the real killer or something like that.
Anyone else watching?
Oh my gosh, Michael Tracey is on the show too. This show is just too IDI for me. The R's could have written it.
azwriter
10-04-2008, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the heads up but I'm not going to even watch. Justice was cast aside by an inept police department when that little girl lost her life.
JMO
Maui4me
10-04-2008, 10:59 PM
Well I watched this episode and the one on Natalie Holloway... they both made perfect sense to me and both verified what my gut has told me. I know many of you disagree and I respect you for that, please respect me for my beliefs... if the killer has killed again as they think, it is sad a killer is running loose... JMHO
Zanko
10-04-2008, 11:03 PM
I missed it. What was their reading? What do they believe happened? Who? Any description? How he knew the family? Anyone watch it and could recap for me?
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:07 PM
Watching it now, what BS! SMit is on too. Typical IDI show. At the beginning they said that the R's were cleared by Lacy so they are hoping to get visions of the real killer or something like that.
Anyone else watching?
I watched, and I am so sorry that I promoted this bunch of BS here. Had I KNOWN, I never would have said anything. The obscure cases that were shown earlier today actually had sense and substance to them.
You know the funniest thing about this whole show? NOT Loose Mitt, not idiot Tracey, but the fact that the so called " investigators" were NOT even allowed inside the house!!
Everything they filmed was either outdoors or from some mockup.
SO many injuries they never even touched on.
BTW, didn't their suspect look extremely like John Mark Carr, even down to the description of him at that time, slight with muscular arms, and he was installing security sytems for chump change ( but in another part of the country).
It was all BS. Total and utter BS. Anyone who believes what was said knows nothing to very little of the case facts regarding the fibers of Patsy's jacket being intertwined in the garotte while it was being made, or the cashmere fibers from John's sweater being found on JonBenet's thighs under her long johns.
Horrible old Lou Smit, just DIE already!!!
Well I watched this episode and the one on Natalie Holloway... they both made perfect sense to me and both verified what my gut has told me. I know many of you disagree and I respect you for that, please respect me for my beliefs... if the killer has killed again as they think, it is sad a killer is running loose... JMHO
Okay, so after JB is stunned gunned the first time, the intruder takes her to the basement, where she wakes up...and he stun guns her again. What happened to the head bash? That was never mentioned. Also, according to the "Psychics", the intruder brought his own flashlight...so why then did he have to find, use and wipe down the Ramsey's? Also, John himself, said that JB would NOT have gone down to the kitchen for pineapple..because she wouldn't go down by herself in the dark. I agree with you on the Holloway case, but the one on JB was a bunch of b.s.
JMO8778
10-04-2008, 11:15 PM
amen! Smit is the perfect example of political corruption...Team Scamsey knew just where to find what and whom they needed for this case.
as for the show,go figure...tv is all about money! and oooooo.....wouldn't it be exciting if they could put a face on this so-called fictitious 'intruder'?? much more exciting than the R's faces,who've been done to death on tv already (no pun intended!).
Maui4me
10-04-2008, 11:16 PM
Ames, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine... it made total sense to me.... it seemed to me that the actual detective seemed to think they were correct also and said there is much we do not know.
With all due respect, you are entitled to your belief and I am not going to argue over this.
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:17 PM
I missed it. What was their reading? What do they believe happened? Who? Any description? How he knew the family? Anyone watch it and could recap for me?
You asked, so these are the talking points;
Young white male ( not Asian)
Sketch looks just like John Mark Karr to me
Familiar with Boulder
Knew Access Graphics
Worked in security or installed security systems ( was insinuated that he worked at Access Graphics IMO)
Fixated on JBR for pedophiliac reasons, but apparently also had personal knowledge of and dislike of John Ramsey
Supposedly known by JonBenet- showed the actress playing her stopping and saying hi to him.
Stalked the house and the Ramseys for at least part of Christmas Day
BUT, he had to work on Christmas Day, definite on that point
Perp said he was JBR's father at a beauty pageant she was in ( this gem came from Mike Tracey, more or less).
Was in the house for hours
Wrote the note before the crime
Used stun gun
Took her to the basement
Took her photo
Was passive ( yeah right)
Pedophile things done
Entered through Lou's window of death and left the same way ( ROFLOL)
Wore a leather jacket, and of course, hiking boots
( I zoned out at this point but they were almost finished).
They did their experiments with equipment but honestly, they weren't even IN the basement, so it had to be bogus. Said a little girl said " Hello". Says she is at peace, has passed on.
They believe killer is in the state of Virginia and has killed another child or children
Louse Mitts was estatic. Said this helped him narrow in on a suspect he had been interested in for a long time. He refused to say anything else, but clearly lied like he knew just who to look at. MEAN OLD MAN.
That's what I got out of the BS
Maui4me
10-04-2008, 11:20 PM
Zanko, I will give you my take on the show... you make your own opinion
the killer worked as a security guard, I thought for John Ramsey. He had been casing and following Jon Benet for a while. He went into house while they were out. He wrote the note while they were gone and hid in Jon Benets bedroom. He entered and left through the basement and did use a stun gun.
Detective on case said much of this matched and killer could enter and leave without going through snow and leaving footprints.
I am only answering my take to Zanko before you all jump on me. He asked for a recap. Hopefully the truth will be known someday and we will know who was right. All along my gut has told me the parents did not do it.
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:21 PM
Okay, so after JB is stunned gunned the first time, the intruder takes her to the basement, where she wakes up...and he stun guns her again. What happened to the head bash? That was never mentioned. Also, according to the "Psychics", the intruder brought his own flashlight...so why then did he have to find, use and wipe down the Ramsey's? Also, John himself, said that JB would NOT have gone down to the kitchen for pineapple..because she wouldn't go down by herself in the dark. I agree with you on the Holloway case, but the one on JB was a bunch of b.s.
The Ramsey segment was so screwed up that I can't even begin to straighten out the lies and misconceptions. They may truly believe the strange man seen outside the house theory, but it all reeks of them having been totally contaminated by both Smit and the JM Carr debacle to me.
Their perp sketch WAS JM Carr, IMO. I guess even psychics are affected by media coverage of bizarro people.
JMO8778
10-04-2008, 11:23 PM
it's obvious Smit and Tracey fed the producers in this show,and lord knows who all else!
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Zanko, I will give you my take on the show... you make your own opinion
the killer worked as a security guard, I thought for John Ramsey. He had been casing and following Jon Benet for a while. He went into house while they were out. He wrote the note while they were gone and hid in Jon Benets bedroom. He entered and left through the basement and did use a stun gun.
Detective on case said much of this matched and killer could enter and leave without going through snow and leaving footprints.
I am only answering my take to Zanko before you all jump on me. He asked for a recap. Hopefully the truth will be known someday and we will know who was right. All along my gut has told me the parents did not do it.
I don't know you, welcome to WS. WS more or less started 12 years ago with this case and those of us who have lived it for 12 years know the case facts and know the BS. What was said tonight was pure BS with the exception that JonBenet is dead and is at peace. I truly believe she is at peace too.
I suggest that you start reading the first thread on this case and keep reading until you understand how absurd the show was tonight. It was pure entertainment fiction with a bit of paranormal BS thrown in.
Most IDI believers learn quite quickly that the house was not invaded from without, the evil lived within.
I missed it. What was their reading? What do they believe happened? Who? Any description? How he knew the family? Anyone watch it and could recap for me?
Okay, I will give it a try. Supposedly the "intruder" was a security guard somewhere. He knew JB and she had seen him before. He attended the pageants. There was some sort of connection to Access Graphics. One of the Psychics, supposedly not even knowing where John worked, was "led" to a building...not knowing that it was where Access Graphics was at the time of the killing. Anyway, this "intruder" came in through the window (they didn't say how he supposedly moved that heavy grate at the window well), and he brought in his own flashlight and a baseball bat. Although, I can't figure out why he would have had to find, use, and wipe down the Ramsey's, if he had brought in his own. Also, what happened to that baseball bat? (He supposedly climbed back out the window in the basement that he came in through, hoisting himself up on the suitcase...would've been hard to do with a flashlight in one hand and a baseball bat in the other..IMO). Anyway, he watches with binoculars and sees the Rams pull in from the party. I have no clue how he knew that they were not home to begin with...I guess he must have been psychic too. Oh yeah, before they come home..he pens the three page Ransom note. He then goes upstairs and hides. John brings in JB and puts her on the bed. The intruder slowly starts walking into JB's bedroom, and when she starts to wake up for some reason, he hides in a closet. She goes downstairs BY HERSELF (even JOHN said that she would NEVER do that), and sits at the table eating pineapple (there is no explaination for the glass with the tea bag in it). He comes up behind her and stun guns her. He carries her to the basement, and as he is putting the finishing touches on the garotte, she wakes up. He stun guns her again...then the uses the garotte, cutting off her air. One of the psychics say that she was crying, and then said that she was knocked out from the stun gun (both psychics agreed separately that a stun gun was used)...so, if she was knocked out, how did she cry? Anyway....so he twists the garotte and didn't mean too, but he killed her. He covered her with a blanket..didn't say where it came from..and then leaves out the window that he entered through. Problem with that whole psychic thing is...they totally leave the head blow out. They forgot the "little" thing about her head being bashed in and her skull bone being displaced. Gee...when did the intruder did that. Nor, did they say WHY he chose to take her to the WC, instead of out the front door. They said that he was not afraid of anyone catching him in the basement, because there was "so many floors between them". You would think that he had her in the basement of a high rise apartment building, and her parents were sleeping on the very top floor. :rolleyes:
JMO8778
10-04-2008, 11:25 PM
The Ramsey segment was so screwed up that I can't even begin to straighten out the lies and misconceptions. They may truly believe the strange man seen outside the house theory, but it all reeks of them having been totally contaminated by both Smit and the JM Carr debacle to me.
Their perp sketch WAS JM Carr, IMO. I guess even psychics are affected by media coverage of bizarro people.I don't believe they were real psychics,at least they didn't have the real gift,as I believe some possibly do.this was obviously just all show.
Ames, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine... it made total sense to me.... it seemed to me that the actual detective seemed to think they were correct also and said there is much we do not know.
With all due respect, you are entitled to your belief and I am not going to argue over this.
Ummm..nobody is starting an argument. All I said was...the truth..the head blow was not even mentioned. With all due respect...how is that starting an argument with you?:confused:
amen! Smit is the perfect example of political corruption...Team Scamsey knew just where to find what and whom they needed for this case.
as for the show,go figure...tv is all about money! and oooooo.....wouldn't it be exciting if they could put a face on this so-called fictitious 'intruder'?? much more exciting than the R's faces,who've been done to death on tv already (no pun intended!).
Kinda funny that the Psychic was drawn to the Access Graphics building and then said that it was someone that knew JB and that JB knew.
Could that be...her own dad?
JMO8778
10-04-2008, 11:31 PM
Okay, I will give it a try. Supposedly the "intruder" was a security guard somewhere. He knew JB and she had seen him before. He attended the pageants. There was some sort of connection to Access Graphics. One of the Psychics, supposedly not even knowing where John worked, was "led" to a building...not knowing that it was where Access Graphics was at the time of the killing. Anyway, this "intruder" came in through the window (they didn't say how he supposedly moved that heavy grate at the window well), and he brought in his own flashlight and a baseball bat. Although, I can't figure out why he would have had to find, use, and wipe down the Ramsey's, if he had brought in his own. Also, what happened to that baseball bat? (He supposedly climbed back out the window in the basement that he came in through, hoisting himself up on the suitcase...would've been hard to do with a flashlight in one hand and a baseball bat in the other..IMO). Anyway, he watches with binoculars and sees the Rams pull in from the party. I have no clue how he knew that they were not home to begin with...I guess he must have been psychic too. Oh yeah, before they come home..he pens the three page Ransom note. He then goes upstairs and hides. John brings in JB and puts her on the bed. The intruder slowly starts walking into JB's bedroom, and when she starts to wake up for some reason, he hides in a closet. She goes downstairs BY HERSELF (even JOHN said that she would NEVER do that), and sits at the table eating pineapple (there is no explaination for the glass with the tea bag in it). He comes up behind her and stun guns her. He carries her to the basement, and as he is putting the finishing touches on the garotte, she wakes up. He stun guns her again...then the uses the garotte, cutting off her air. One of the psychics say that she was crying, and then said that she was knocked out from the stun gun (both psychics agreed separately that a stun gun was used)...so, if she was knocked out, how did she cry? Anyway....so he twists the garotte and didn't mean too, but he killed her. He covered her with a blanket..didn't say where it came from..and then leaves out the window that he entered through. Problem with that whole psychic thing is...they totally leave the head blow out. They forgot the "little" thing about her head being bashed in and her skull bone being displaced. Gee...when did the intruder did that. Nor, did they say WHY he chose to take her to the WC, instead of out the front door. They said that he was not afraid of anyone catching him in the basement, because there was "so many floors between them". You would think that he had her in the basement of a high rise apartment building, and her parents were sleeping on the very top floor. :rolleyes:
yea,really,it doesn't fit the evidence,and if JB were sitting eating pineapple alone,even so,she was still killed approx. 2 hrs later...doubtful in any scenario,esp. this one,that an intruder took this long to do these things.just plain silly if you ask me.
JMO8778
10-04-2008, 11:32 PM
Kinda funny that the Psychic was drawn to the Access Graphics building and then said that it was someone that knew JB and that JB knew.
Could that be...her own dad?
..well,I've always thought those sketches look more like JR than JMK!
You asked, so these are the talking points;
Young white male ( not Asian)
Sketch looks just like John Mark Karr to me
Familiar with Boulder
Knew Access Graphics
Worked in security or installed security systems ( was insinuated that he worked at Access Graphics IMO)
Fixated on JBR for pedophiliac reasons, but apparently also had personal knowledge of and dislike of John Ramsey
Supposedly known by JonBenet- showed the actress playing her stopping and saying hi to him.
Stalked the house and the Ramseys for at least part of Christmas Day
BUT, he had to work on Christmas Day, definite on that point
Perp said he was JBR's father at a beauty pageant she was in ( this gem came from Mike Tracey, more or less).
Was in the house for hours
Wrote the note before the crime
Used stun gun
Took her to the basement
Took her photo
Was passive ( yeah right)
Pedophile things done
Entered through Lou's window of death and left the same way ( ROFLOL)
Wore a leather jacket, and of course, hiking boots
( I zoned out at this point but they were almost finished).
They did their experiments with equipment but honestly, they weren't even IN the basement, so it had to be bogus. Said a little girl said " Hello". Says she is at peace, has passed on.
They believe killer is in the state of Virginia and has killed another child or children
Louse Mitts was estatic. Said this helped him narrow in on a suspect he had been interested in for a long time. He refused to say anything else, but clearly lied like he knew just who to look at. MEAN OLD MAN.
That's what I got out of the BS
Did you notice that right after the "Psychics" said that she had passed on, and was at peace... the one guy walks up to the gate and sticks this huge microphone (that detects spirits talking) through, and says..."JonBenet we are here to try and bring justice to your killer", and then when he plays it back, he hears what he says is a little girl say "HELLO". Well, if she has passed on, and is at peace...why would she be talking to him?
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:35 PM
I don't believe they were real psychics,at least they didn't have the real gift,as I believe some possibly do.this was obviously just all show.
I am psychic, although I do not try to be. The night this case made national news, I said to my hubby " Her parents did this and will get away with it". This was my first vision related to a crime, but certainly not the last.
I felt it, I saw it, and I told him that she was strangled to death and that a staged ligature was on her wrists too. I felt sick, and I cried. No IDI theory ever swayed me one bit. I SAW John and Patsy involved to the max from the beginning.
Most of the time, having a true gift of sight is more of a curse than a gift, because it is extremely painful and emotional. Also, there is nothing an ordinary person like me can do with the visions except experience them. Those people, who obviously fabricated their story, make money for being actors more than anything else.
Those of us who have seen various aspects of this and other crimes just have to live with what we see. Who's going to believe us, and why should they?
I am in total amazement about the show that I just watched. First of all, the pyschic's were only on the outside of the home on the sidewalk, not even allowed in the fenced in yard. A mock up of the interior of the home was built in another building. Inside the mock up they had key pieces of the IDI evidence, such as a dining table with an empty bowl and spoon on it. In the train room they had a suitcase sitting under the window.
I can think of very few people that don't know things about this case and that being said, the so-called pyschic's only mentioned known evidence. Smit's evidence to be exact. The intruder entered through the basement window. He wandered around the house checking it out. He wrote the note prior to the R's arrival back home. He was waiting in a closet. He used a stun gun while she was sitting at the dining room table and this knocked her unconcious. He carried her to the basement and sexually assaulted her. At that time she awoke and started to cry (with the tape on her mouth) and wiggle around. He panicked and used a stick and cord (the garrot) to silence her. He didn't mean to kill her as he had wanted to take her with him. He left out the same basement window using the suitcase to step on.
I DVR'ed it so I am reviewing now for further recap...be back soon
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Kinda funny that the Psychic was drawn to the Access Graphics building and then said that it was someone that knew JB and that JB knew.
Could that be...her own dad?
Yep. I also thought it was interesting that the guy said " I am seeing a shopping mall" with his remote viewing. Patsy, perhaps? LOL.
Then he goes to Pearl Street and zeroes right on to the former Access Graphics building but oh, has no clue what it is.. Sure.
John was the head of the place. Her own dad, indeed.
yea,really,it doesn't fit the evidence,and if JB were sitting eating pineapple alone,even so,she was still killed approx. 2 hrs later...doubtful in any scenario,esp. this one,that an intruder took this long to do these things.just plain silly if you ask me.
I also noticed that when one of the psychics was reading the RN, that he said..that it was someone trying to play games with John..and then he said..."do NOT put the money in an attache, put it in a brown paper bag?" HUH? Am I missing something?? What happened to..."bring an adequate size attaché"?
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:41 PM
I am in total amazement about the show that I just watched. First of all, the pyschic's were only on the outside of the home on the sidewalk, not even allowed in the fenced in yard. A mock up of the interior of the home was built in another building. Inside the mock up they had key pieces of the IDI evidence, such as a dining table with an empty bowl and spoon on it. In the train room they had a suitcase sitting under the window.
I can think of very few people that don't know things about this case and that being said, the so-called pyschic's only mentioned known evidence. Smit's evidence to be exact. The intruder entered through the basement window. He wandered around the house checking it out. He wrote the note prior to the R's arrival back home. He was waiting in a closet. He used a stun gun while she was sitting at the dining room table and this knocked her unconcious. He carried her to the basement and sexually assaulted her. At that time she awoke and started to cry (with the tape on her mouth) and wiggle around. He panicked and used a stick and cord (the garrot) to silence her. He didn't mean to kill her as he had wanted to take her with him. He left out the same basement window using the suitcase to step on.
I DVR'ed it so I am reviewing now for further recap...be back soon
Yeah, we've pretty much covered it, Zak. It was BS, they weren't given access to the house and used old film footage that Tracey had of the empty house plus their own mockup.
I am glad that whoever owns the house didn't let them in. I am also glad that people see through their BS. Yeah, the little girl saying " Hello" was contrived, just like Carla Baron saying " I'm choking".
You asked, so these are the talking points;
Young white male ( not Asian)
Sketch looks just like John Mark Karr to me
Familiar with Boulder
Knew Access Graphics
Worked in security or installed security systems ( was insinuated that he worked at Access Graphics IMO)
Fixated on JBR for pedophiliac reasons, but apparently also had personal knowledge of and dislike of John Ramsey
Supposedly known by JonBenet- showed the actress playing her stopping and saying hi to him.
Stalked the house and the Ramseys for at least part of Christmas Day
BUT, he had to work on Christmas Day, definite on that point
Perp said he was JBR's father at a beauty pageant she was in ( this gem came from Mike Tracey, more or less).
Was in the house for hours
Wrote the note before the crime
Used stun gun
Took her to the basement
Took her photo
Was passive ( yeah right)
Pedophile things done
Entered through Lou's window of death and left the same way ( ROFLOL)
Wore a leather jacket, and of course, hiking boots
( I zoned out at this point but they were almost finished).
They did their experiments with equipment but honestly, they weren't even IN the basement, so it had to be bogus. Said a little girl said " Hello". Says she is at peace, has passed on.
They believe killer is in the state of Virginia and has killed another child or children
Louse Mitts was estatic. Said this helped him narrow in on a suspect he had been interested in for a long time. He refused to say anything else, but clearly lied like he knew just who to look at. MEAN OLD MAN.
That's what I got out of the BS
Thank you for the great recap. That covered just about the entire show.:woohoo:
Holdontoyourhat
10-04-2008, 11:43 PM
I am in total amazement about the show that I just watched. First of all, the pyschic's were only on the outside of the home on the sidewalk, not even allowed in the fenced in yard. A mock up of the interior of the home was built in another building. Inside the mock up they had key pieces of the IDI evidence, such as a dining table with an empty bowl and spoon on it. In the train room they had a suitcase sitting under the window.
I can think of very few people that don't know things about this case and that being said, the so-called pyschic's only mentioned known evidence. Smit's evidence to be exact. The intruder entered through the basement window. He wandered around the house checking it out. He wrote the note prior to the R's arrival back home. He was waiting in a closet. He used a stun gun while she was sitting at the dining room table and this knocked her unconcious. He carried her to the basement and sexually assaulted her. At that time she awoke and started to cry (with the tape on her mouth) and wiggle around. He panicked and used a stick and cord (the garrot) to silence her. He didn't mean to kill her as he had wanted to take her with him. He left out the same basement window using the suitcase to step on.
I DVR'ed it so I am reviewing now for further recap...be back soon
Correct. Even as IDI, I noticed that.
And I think they brought up the stun gun evidence as if it was not 'widely reported'. I think the stun gun has been reported just about every time LS has ever been quoted. Its in CNN, crimelibrary, and any book on the subject.
When I use my ESP, I get older than 35. Mid 50's maybe, because of the attache, Victory, 'its up to you now', and 'fat cat' expressions. I also get shorter than 5'8", believe it or not, because if the window-to-floor was to scale, only a real shorty would've needed a suitcase to get out that window after committing a murder.
Yep. I also thought it was interesting that the guy said " I am seeing a shopping mall" with his remote viewing. Patsy, perhaps? LOL.
Then he goes to Pearl Street and zeroes right on to the former Access Graphics building but oh, has no clue what it is.. Sure.
John was the head of the place. Her own dad, indeed.
LOL...That's funny. Yep, he probably saw Patsy at the shopping mall.
And although he had "NEVER" been to Boulder before (yeah right) he zooms right to Access Graphics...like you said. WOW...how "ironic".
I have to say something about those "stun gun" marks. If you look closely at the autopsy picture, you will notice that they are indented. The autopsy reports even states this. A stun gun wouldn't do that.
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:45 PM
..well,I've always thought those sketches look more like JR than JMK!
This one sketch looked a lot younger than JR to me. I think they had to have been influenced by the Karr debacle. OR, the pic fits Loose Mitts idea of what the perp looks like, AKA his favorite suspect. Who may or may not be JM Karr. Who knows?
Correct. Even as IDI, I noticed that.
And I think they brought up the stun gun evidence as if it was not 'widely reported'. I think the stun gun has been reported just about every time LS has ever been quoted. Its in CNN, crimelibrary, and any book on the subject.
When I use my ESP, I get older than 35. Mid 50's maybe, because of the attache, Victory, 'its up to you now', and 'fat cat' expressions. I also get shorter than 5'8", believe it or not, because if the window-to-floor was to scale, only a real shorty would've needed a suitcase to get out that window after committing a murder.
Did you also notice that the head bash wasn't even mentioned? Kind of an important thing to just leave out, isn't it?
Thank you for the great recap. That covered just about the entire show.:woohoo:
HEY wait a minute...what about my recap...I wrote a whole, long paragraph...giving you blow by blow. LOL
..well,I've always thought those sketches look more like JR than JMK!
Thank goodness that I am not the only one that thought the pic looked alot like JR.
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:48 PM
LOL...That's funny. Yep, he probably saw Patsy at the shopping mall.
And although he had "NEVER" been to Boulder before (yeah right) he zooms right to Access Graphics...like you said. WOW...how "ironic".
I have to say something about those "stun gun" marks. If you look closely at the autopsy picture, you will notice that they are indented. The autopsy reports even states this. A stun gun wouldn't do that.
Nope, those marks are something her face lay against at some point just prior to death. There's really no telling, the basement was so filthy and that room was a catch all room for all of their junk. There were also rumblings of an old safe being built into the foundation of the house, in that room, which might have had rivets of that diameter.
Jameson told about the safe once or twice, as I recal, then apparently was told to shut up about it.
HEY wait a minute...what about my recap...I wrote a whole, long paragraph...giving you blow by blow. LOL
Thank you for your recap too. It was great, I just read the other first. lol
Thank you for your recap too. It was great, I just read the other first. lol
LOL..you are welcome. I feel better now. :)
SeekingJana
10-04-2008, 11:53 PM
LOL, Ames and Zak. Been nice chatting with you. They are on to Molly Bish's case now, and it is quite graphic. More graphic than what they said about Natalee being raped, even. I am shocked. I need to watch TVLand or something else mindless I think.
HAGN!!
Maria
Nope, those marks are something her face lay against at some point just prior to death. There's really no telling, the basement was so filthy and that room was a catch all room for all of their junk. There were also rumblings of an old safe being built into the foundation of the house, in that room, which might have had rivets of that diameter.
Jameson told about the safe once or twice, as I recal, then apparently was told to shut up about it.
I have actually seen a picture.. of the supposed safe. Yeah, there is no telling what those marks are, but they definately did not come from a stun gun.
LOL, Ames and Zak. Been nice chatting with you. They are on to Molly Bish's case now, and it is quite graphic. More graphic than what they said about Natalee being raped, even. I am shocked. I need to watch TVLand or something else mindless I think.
HAGN!!
Maria
You too! I think that they save the most graphic ones for after dark...when the kiddo's are asleep.
txsvicki
10-05-2008, 12:03 AM
I thought the actors used in the psychics' visions looked like two different people. One looked just like JMK and the other looked like a different guy. The head bash being left out is odd. Karla made a remark about JonBenet being asleep in the backseat of the car saying "she was knocked out". Also, I thought the episode showed the hand that was supposed to be John R. just a little too long when he put JonBenet to bed and touched her side. I'm probably reading more into this show that was there though. I don't believe in psychics, but the epidsode that followed about Laura Miller, Heidi, and Janet Doe really scared me.
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 12:13 AM
Did you also notice that the head bash wasn't even mentioned? Kind of an important thing to just leave out, isn't it?..I've always thought the head blow was done with the flashlight...so,with Smit apparently having some input into the show,and the flashlight belonging to the R's...better to just leave it out??? seems suspect to me,too.
ETA: I just remembered....the flashlight didn't fit into Smit's IDI theory...they'd have had to show an intruder taking the time to go back upstairs with it!! ..not gonna happen in this fairy tale!! BAHAAAHAAAA!!!!
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 12:20 AM
I thought the actors used in the psychics' visions looked like two different people. One looked just like JMK and the other looked like a different guy. The head bash being left out is odd. Karla made a remark about JonBenet being asleep in the backseat of the car saying "she was knocked out". Also, I thought the episode showed the hand that was supposed to be John R. just a little too long when he put JonBenet to bed and touched her side. I'm probably reading more into this show that was there though. I don't believe in psychics, but the epidsode that followed about Laura Miller, Heidi, and Janet Doe really scared me...I've always wondered if there was more than one tox test,since Wendy Murphy mentioned it might be so,and JR kept trying to imply the White's drugged JB w the cracked crab (see previous interview posted by Ames).Now I do NOT think the White's did any such thing,but,I do wonder if the R's tried to put a Klonopin under JB's tongue,if she as seizuring from the head injury.that would show up in a tox test.
sounds like perhaps Smit fed someone(s) some inside info for the show??!
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 12:23 AM
Thank goodness that I am not the only one that thought the pic looked alot like JR.I didn't see the show (I'm only commenting here from the others who did),but I meant the sketch on the candy rose site.the thin lips,etc...look like JR to me.
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 12:31 AM
..I've always wondered if there was more than one tox test,since Wendy Murphy mentioned it might be so,and JR kept trying to imply the White's drugged JB w the cracked crab (see previous interview posted by Ames).Now I do NOT think the White's did any such thing,but,I do wonder if the R's tried to put a Klonopin under JB's tongue,if she as seizuring from the head injury.that would show up in a tox test.
sounds like perhaps Smit fed someone(s) some inside info for the show??!
Hold up. Some good points here. I caught the " knocked out in the back seat" comment too, and I thought that maybe Carla actually was making sense for a few minutes. I think there is a chance that JonBenet may have been sedated.
2 points:
They skipped the last house to which they were going to deliver their fruit baskets on Christmas night- the Stines' house, I believe. No reason was given and since they were supposed to fly to Michigan the next AM, I suppose the Stines weren't going to get their fruit basket for Christmas, LOL.
Also, remember the statements in " PMPT" that Patsy made to people on Christmas Day that JBR had a bad cold? Couldn't play outdoors, etc? Maybe she was doping her up on cough and cold medications that were on the market at that time to keep her quiet. You could keep a small child almost unconscious with OTC stuff until a year or two ago.
As far as a prescription med., I highly doubt that we would not have had some of that leaked before now. Klonopin would not be a perfect drug to use either, as the onset of action is slower than most anticonvulsants and the sedative has a very long half life, unlike some benzos. Meaning that if it was absorbed sublingually, it would be in her aqueous humor on autopsy.
JBR only weighed 36 pounds on autopsy. That's extremely small for 6 and a half years old.
I suspect she might have had decongestants and cough medication fed to her in excess. She looked a little blank-eyed in some of the Christmas Day photos, especially the one where Patsy has her by the arm. JMHO.
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 12:35 AM
I am psychic, although I do not try to be. The night this case made national news, I said to my hubby " Her parents did this and will get away with it". This was my first vision related to a crime, but certainly not the last.
I felt it, I saw it, and I told him that she was strangled to death and that a staged ligature was on her wrists too. I felt sick, and I cried. No IDI theory ever swayed me one bit. I SAW John and Patsy involved to the max from the beginning.
Most of the time, having a true gift of sight is more of a curse than a gift, because it is extremely painful and emotional. Also, there is nothing an ordinary person like me can do with the visions except experience them. Those people, who obviously fabricated their story, make money for being actors more than anything else.
Those of us who have seen various aspects of this and other crimes just have to live with what we see. Who's going to believe us, and why should they?whom do you see as delivering the head blow? although I don't rule out JR entirely,IMO it appears Patsy more than likely did(?).
JR had a spot on his face on CNN,so IMO,he was either already present at the time,or he came in when JB was screaming.I think he may have caught part of the blow,or tried to break JB away from Patsy and got caught in the middle of it.
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 12:47 AM
Hold up. Some good points here. I caught the " knocked out in the back seat" comment too, and I thought that maybe Carla actually was making sense for a few minutes. I think there is a chance that JonBenet may have been sedated.
2 points:
They skipped the last house to which they were going to deliver their fruit baskets on Christmas night- the Stines' house, I believe. No reason was given and since they were supposed to fly to Michigan the next AM, I suppose the Stines weren't going to get their fruit basket for Christmas, LOL.
Also, remember the statements in " PMPT" that Patsy made to people on Christmas Day that JBR had a bad cold? Couldn't play outdoors, etc? Maybe she was doping her up on cough and cold medications that were on the market at that time to keep her quiet. You could keep a small child almost unconscious with OTC stuff until a year or two ago.
As far as a prescription med., I highly doubt that we would not have had some of that leaked before now. Klonopin would not be a perfect drug to use either, as the onset of action is slower than most anticonvulsants and the sedative has a very long half life, unlike some benzos. Meaning that if it was absorbed sublingually, it would be in her aqueous humor on autopsy.
JBR only weighed 36 pounds on autopsy. That's extremely small for 6 and a half years old.
I suspect she might have had decongestants and cough medication fed to her in excess. She looked a little blank-eyed in some of the Christmas Day photos, especially the one where Patsy has her by the arm. JMHO.good point,I hadn't thought about cold/cough meds.I think the R's were q's about Klonopin,that's why I mentioned it.although it could be that Patsy mixed it w some alcohol already in her system from that evening,and she went beserk from it.it can happen.
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 12:50 AM
^^ I think Patsy made the garotte, used the garotte, and hit her in the head from behind as she was seizuring from the cerebral hypoxia from the garotting. All with forethought and premeditation.
Trocaria
10-05-2008, 02:17 AM
Hubby was watching this with me. Now, understand, he has like zip interest in this case and up out of no where pipes up;
"didn't they have a dog?"
I told him that I recalled reading that they did. He pointed out that the dog would have been having a fit over the stranger in the house. Had the guy hid under the bed or in the closet, the dog would have been sniffing around and making a stink.
I forget, was the dog there that night? Was the dog being boarded somewhere due to the family trip on 12/26?
Hubby was watching this with me. Now, understand, he has like zip interest in this case and up out of no where pipes up;
"didn't they have a dog?"
I told him that I recalled reading that they did. He pointed out that the dog would have been having a fit over the stranger in the house. Had the guy hid under the bed or in the closet, the dog would have been sniffing around and making a stink.
I forget, was the dog there that night? Was the dog being boarded somewhere due to the family trip on 12/26?
The dog was at the neighbors, the Barnhills, where he stayed half of the time.
Trocaria
10-05-2008, 03:59 AM
The dog was at the neighbors, the Barnhills, where he stayed half of the time.
Ok, that explains that.
Yeah, in addition to NOT mentioning the traumatic head injury, they also fail to mention
The Barbie nightgown
AND
why the "intruder" placed the note on the stair.
Steaming pile, all of it.
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 04:29 AM
right,and the Barnhill's were right across the st...but...not to mention,just how would an intruder know the R's dog wasn't going to be there anyway??
Mr.Barnhill was the one who took care of the dog after JB's death.the R's apparently didn't think it would be a good testament to her memory to keep him and take care of him themselves.
JMO8778
10-05-2008, 04:30 AM
^^ I think Patsy made the garotte, used the garotte, and hit her in the head from behind as she was seizuring from the cerebral hypoxia from the garotting. All with forethought and premeditation.
I hadn't thought of it that way (other than the forethought and premeditation),thx.
Zanko
10-05-2008, 09:11 AM
Thanks for going over the show for me. I have had some serious misgivings about the show. It appears that they never say anything that couldn't have been told to them and rehearsed. I do believe in psychics, I just don't think this show is very honest. And furthermore, it can be harmful if the investigators waste time on false readings and/or lead the investigation in the wrong direction. I have a feeling that they would not have cooperated in anyway with the show if the actors (psychics) were going to implicate any known suspect.
I thought the actors used in the psychics' visions looked like two different people. One looked just like JMK and the other looked like a different guy. The head bash being left out is odd. Karla made a remark about JonBenet being asleep in the backseat of the car saying "she was knocked out". Also, I thought the episode showed the hand that was supposed to be John R. just a little too long when he put JonBenet to bed and touched her side. I'm probably reading more into this show that was there though. I don't believe in psychics, but the epidsode that followed about Laura Miller, Heidi, and Janet Doe really scared me.
Not only did they leave out the head bash....they also left out the FACT that the Ramsey's flashlight was left on the kitchen counter...so, if the intruder took JB to the basement, and then left out of the window that he came in through, how did that flashlight end up on the kitchen counter...completely wiped down? What about the paintbrush insertion? No mention of that either. And...so the "intruder" brought a flashlight with him, a baseball bat...and a CAMERA? Karla said that he had been planning this for a long time...well, he wasn't very prepared. He forgot the tape, the rope and the RN...so he used items found in the house. He fashioned the garotte while JB was knocked out from the stun gun? Why would he have done that? According to them, he spent hours in the house before the Ramsey's arrived home...what the heck was he doing? If it had been planned for a long time, then that garotte would have already been made. He wouldn't wait until he knocked her out to make it, because there would be a chance that she might wake up and try to scream. Of course, according to those "psychics", she DID wake up...and so he zapped her again. What about the redressing? What about the size 12 panties? This "physic's" intruder did none of this. Why didn't Smit (Sh!t) say..."What about the redressing? What about the paintbrush insertion? What about the head blow? When did all of THOSE THINGS happen?" Nah, he really doesn't give a hoot about bringing anyone to justice for that crime.
right,and the Barnhill's were right across the st...but...not to mention,just how would an intruder know the R's dog wasn't going to be there anyway??
Mr.Barnhill was the one who took care of the dog after JB's death.the R's apparently didn't think it would be a good testament to her memory to keep him and take care of him themselves.
Yeah, the intruder felt pretty comfortable going into the Ramsey's home..even though he had no idea if they had a dog, or a burgular alarm. If I were an intruder I would have been afraid that they had BOTH...in such a schmancy fancy house as that. An intruder wouldn't have known if they had a dog or not...much less, if it was there or at a neighbors house that night. And he also wouldn't have known that they DID have an alarm, but that it had been deactivated.
Intruder (thinking to himself): "They sure do have a nice house, I bet that they most likely have an alarm system....but, that's okay, because it is probably deactivated. Hmmmm, what about a dog? I bet the family has a dog too, but I am not going to worry about it, because it's probably staying with a neighbor". :rolleyes:
Thanks for going over the show for me. I have had some serious misgivings about the show. It appears that they never say anything that couldn't have been told to them and rehearsed. I do believe in psychics, I just don't think this show is very honest. And furthermore, it can be harmful if the investigators waste time on false readings and/or lead the investigation in the wrong direction. I have a feeling that they would not have cooperated in anyway with the show if the actors (psychics) were going to implicate any known suspect.
I agree...especially since Smit and Tracey was on it. I kept thinking that they were going to bring in Mary Lacy. Where was "hair curtains", (as she is so "fondly" called over at FFJ)?
Ok, that explains that.
Yeah, in addition to NOT mentioning the traumatic head injury, they also fail to mention
The Barbie nightgown
AND
why the "intruder" placed the note on the stair.
Steaming pile, all of it.
Yep, those are two things that I left out of my post, about things that weren't mentioned.
What about the tea bag and glass? On the show, JB sat down with a bowl of pineapple at the table...but, no tea glass in sight.
IMO..a REAL kidnapper would have left the note on JB's bed. Not on the stairs...and why not the floor? Or the counter? What was the point in spreading it out on the stairs? I agree...steaming pile...of SMIT.
..I've always wondered if there was more than one tox test,since Wendy Murphy mentioned it might be so,and JR kept trying to imply the White's drugged JB w the cracked crab (see previous interview posted by Ames).Now I do NOT think the White's did any such thing,but,I do wonder if the R's tried to put a Klonopin under JB's tongue,if she as seizuring from the head injury.that would show up in a tox test.
sounds like perhaps Smit fed someone(s) some inside info for the show??!
Sure he did.
Hold up. Some good points here. I caught the " knocked out in the back seat" comment too, and I thought that maybe Carla actually was making sense for a few minutes. I think there is a chance that JonBenet may have been sedated.
2 points:
They skipped the last house to which they were going to deliver their fruit baskets on Christmas night- the Stines' house, I believe. No reason was given and since they were supposed to fly to Michigan the next AM, I suppose the Stines weren't going to get their fruit basket for Christmas, LOL.
Also, remember the statements in " PMPT" that Patsy made to people on Christmas Day that JBR had a bad cold? Couldn't play outdoors, etc? Maybe she was doping her up on cough and cold medications that were on the market at that time to keep her quiet. You could keep a small child almost unconscious with OTC stuff until a year or two ago.
As far as a prescription med., I highly doubt that we would not have had some of that leaked before now. Klonopin would not be a perfect drug to use either, as the onset of action is slower than most anticonvulsants and the sedative has a very long half life, unlike some benzos. Meaning that if it was absorbed sublingually, it would be in her aqueous humor on autopsy.
JBR only weighed 36 pounds on autopsy. That's extremely small for 6 and a half years old.
I suspect she might have had decongestants and cough medication fed to her in excess. She looked a little blank-eyed in some of the Christmas Day photos, especially the one where Patsy has her by the arm. JMHO.
I beleive that she was sleeping in the car...whether it be from cough medicines, or just plain being tired from the days festivities..but, I also believe that SHE WALKED IN on her own and slowly up the stairs...as Burke first said, before changing his story, to she was asleep (to match his parent's version of events). He even described HOW she walked...slowly. If she had of been sleeping in the car, and was tired...that makes sense that she would have walked slowly up the stairs.
The psychics also "SAW" JB being happy on Christmas, opening her presents, and that every thing was honky dory. What about when she opened the MY TWINN doll that she didn't like, and it upset Patsy? Doesn't sound much like a Kodak moment to me. In the picture of Patsy and JB, where Patsy is grasping JB's arm, Patsy's face was all red and her eyes puffy...IMO..she had been crying, because she was upset that JB didn't like the very expensive present.
RiverRat
10-05-2008, 11:18 AM
That was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen and literally made me sick to my stomach to witness the main Ramsey enablers enact their fantasies. The only premonition that was correct was the Pearl Street connection!
Solace
10-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Not only did they leave out the head bash....they also left out the FACT that the Ramsey's flashlight was left on the kitchen counter...so, if the intruder took JB to the basement, and then left out of the window that he came in through, how did that flashlight end up on the kitchen counter...completely wiped down? What about the paintbrush insertion? No mention of that either. And...so the "intruder" brought a flashlight with him, a baseball bat...and a CAMERA? Karla said that he had been planning this for a long time...well, he wasn't very prepared. He forgot the tape, the rope and the RN...so he used items found in the house. He fashioned the garotte while JB was knocked out from the stun gun? Why would he have done that? According to them, he spent hours in the house before the Ramsey's arrived home...what the heck was he doing? If it had been planned for a long time, then that garotte would have already been made. He wouldn't wait until he knocked her out to make it, because there would be a chance that she might wake up and try to scream. Of course, according to those "psychics", she DID wake up...and so he zapped her again. What about the redressing? What about the size 12 panties? This "physic's" intruder did none of this. Why didn't Smit (Sh!t) say..."What about the redressing? What about the paintbrush insertion? What about the head blow? When did all of THOSE THINGS happen?" Nah, he really doesn't give a hoot about bringing anyone to justice for that crime.
HI AMES,
Wondering if you could help. I can log in to FFJ but as soon as I do and it accepts me, it then gives me a message that I cannot access the page. Have you had a problem with this or anyone?
HI AMES,
Wondering if you could help. I can log in to FFJ but as soon as I do and it accepts me, it then gives me a message that I cannot access the page. Have you had a problem with this or anyone?
Hmmm..not with FFJ. I had that problem with WBS this morning though. I say to reboot your computer and try it again. Good luck. Let me know if you still can't get in, and I will email someone for you.
absolut_alexis
10-05-2008, 01:43 PM
I remember thinking that too!
..well,I've always thought those sketches look more like JR than JMK!
SuperDave
10-05-2008, 02:13 PM
Horrible old Lou Smit, just DIE already!!!
Nice to know I'm not the only person who thinks that.
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 02:23 PM
Nice to know I'm not the only person who thinks that.
Ya know, this case might STILL could have been solved IF Lou Smitt hadn't inserted himself into the case as a " Special Investigator" for the BPD, gotten accesss ( and copies) of all the case material on file, then quit to work FOR the Ramseys!!! Sure, he did it on a voluntary basis, sure, they never paid him for his services, and sure, he never compromised the case by handing THE MAIN SUSPECTS the entire case files. No, nah, would never happen in the good old USA, with him being a good old boy and all that. LYING SACK OF CHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:furious::furious: :furious::furious:
All because he found a previously unknown palmprint in the Heather Dawn Church case!! THAT'S his claim to fame, the only great or even good thing he ever did, and it was a FLUKE that HE was the one who solved the case. A one in a lifetime career fluke. He is NOTHING.
I hate him with the heat of 1000 suns because he lied the most about caring for little JonBenet. Talked about " walking in the victim's shoes". LYING SOAP SCUM WITH NO SOUL!!!!!!!!!:furious::furious::furious:
SuperDave
10-05-2008, 02:23 PM
Correct. Even as IDI, I noticed that.
And I think they brought up the stun gun evidence as if it was not 'widely reported'. I think the stun gun has been reported just about every time LS has ever been quoted. Its in CNN, crimelibrary, and any book on the subject.
So even you're admitting the show was flawed? If so, pretty much tells me all I need.
Solace
10-05-2008, 02:29 PM
So even you're admitting the show was flawed? If so, pretty much tells me all I need.
How is the book coming? I need something.
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 02:30 PM
That was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen and literally made me sick to my stomach to witness the main Ramsey enablers enact their fantasies. The only premonition that was correct was the Pearl Street connection!
It was so flucked up that it makes me sick and I am still mad about it today.:furious::furious:
IF Patsy was still alive, I would be madder than I am. But, realizing that JonBenet would now be 18 years old, that her POS of a mother is finally dead and IMO, in hell for killing her child makes it just partially bearable to see the total lies and fabrications by rating hunters.
These people are easier to ignore than Lou Smit, who contaminated the entire evidence files when he quit working with BPD and went to work with the Rams, after their little prayer meeting. He and Prof. Michael Tracey have credentials and therefore, a higher standard of responsibility when they speak.
It is despicable that Tracey had anything to do with this after what he did in the JM Carr debacle.
It is sickening that the Ramsey mouthpiece, Lou Smit, was allowed to run the show.
I doubt I ever watch " Haunting Evidence" again. Lies have no place when it comes to finding the killer of a murdered little girl. Not after 12 LONG years. It's time to tell some truths.
Solace
10-05-2008, 02:30 PM
Hmmm..not with FFJ. I had that problem with WBS this morning though. I say to reboot your computer and try it again. Good luck. Let me know if you still can't get in, and I will email someone for you.
Thanks Ames. Hope everyone is well. :blowkiss:
No, can't get in. I tis such a good board that I hate to lose it.
SuperDave
10-05-2008, 02:33 PM
Ya know, this case might STILL could have been solved IF Lou Smitt hadn't inserted himself into the case as a " Special Investigator" for the BPD, gotten accesss ( and copies) of all the case material on file, then quit to work FOR the Ramseys!!! Sure, he did it on a voluntary basis, sure, they never paid him for his services, and sure, he never compromised the case by handing THE MAIN SUSPECTS the entire case files. No, nah, would never happen in the good old USA, with him being a good old boy and all that. LYING SACK OF CHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:furious::furious: :furious::furious:
All because he found a previously unknown palmprint in the Heather Dawn Church case!! THAT'S his claim to fame, the only great or even good thing he ever did, and it was a FLUKE that HE was the one who solved the case. A one in a lifetime career fluke. He is NOTHING.
I hate him with the heat of 1000 suns because he lied the most about caring for little JonBenet. Talked about " walking in the victim's shoes". LYING SOAP SCUM WITH NO SOUL!!!!!!!!!:furious::furious::furious:
Well, take heart, SeekingJana. I've got something for him AND Prof. Tracey. But I want to wait until I'm calmer. Because, as the Klingons say, "revenge is a dish best served cold."
SuperDave
10-05-2008, 02:41 PM
How is the book coming? I need something.
Just trying to find a publisher now.
Something? Okay. Here's a little somethin'-somethin':
From chapter five,
This man had just shown me that the theory I subscribed to could not have happened. I respected this man. That would change, as well. I'm a regular guy. I believe my own eyes, and I can't not see what my eyes see. I don't have a "stupid" button that I can push to get stupid. It was a shaking experience to say the very least.
He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him. I'll chase him 'round Boulder County and 'round the Denver maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 03:59 PM
Just trying to find a publisher now.
Something? Okay. Here's a little somethin'-somethin':
From chapter five,
This man had just shown me that the theory I subscribed to could not have happened. I respected this man. That would change, as well. I'm a regular guy. I believe my own eyes, and I can't not see what my eyes see. I don't have a "stupid" button that I can push to get stupid. It was a shaking experience to say the very least.
He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him. I'll chase him 'round Boulder County and 'round the Denver maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!
Dave,
Smit? one of the BPD? an elected or appointed gov't. official ( Alex Hunter, for example)?
Tell me more, please! Pretty please? :crazy:
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 04:04 PM
Yeah, the intruder felt pretty comfortable going into the Ramsey's home..even though he had no idea if they had a dog, or a burgular alarm. If I were an intruder I would have been afraid that they had BOTH...in such a schmancy fancy house as that. An intruder wouldn't have known if they had a dog or not...much less, if it was there or at a neighbors house that night. And he also wouldn't have known that they DID have an alarm, but that it had been deactivated.
Intruder (thinking to himself): "They sure do have a nice house, I bet that they most likely have an alarm system....but, that's okay, because it is probably deactivated. Hmmmm, what about a dog? I bet the family has a dog too, but I am not going to worry about it, because it's probably staying with a neighbor". :rolleyes:
I was waiting for one of the psychics to put on Patsy's old Miss W. VA crown and sash that she was so proud of and say the intruder did that too. Honestly!
They SORT OF covered their bases about the security system by saying their impression was that the man had knowledge of security systems and measures. When they said this, a picture of the blinking red light of an activated security system was shown on camera.
BUT, then they blew that all to heck by just going with Lou Smit's " tall but skinny intruder who flew through the basement window and flew right out again". Not a word about how the suitcase they showed under the window didn't begin to hoist one of them out the tall window. Not one word about how the perp, who they say planned to take JBR ( so why didn't he if he really existed?) with him was going to get her out of the house. Not a word about any details, because it was all make believe. Right down to Carla's choking, which made me so ANGRY!!!:furious::furious:
NO ONE knows how JonBenet suffered that night, least of all those clowns!
Holdontoyourhat
10-05-2008, 04:15 PM
So even you're admitting the show was flawed? If so, pretty much tells me all I need.
I was skeptical at JMK. I would ALWAYS be skeptical to ESP 'connections' to the 'other side'. I was a bit surprised to see LE professional swayed by that stuff.
Although I might go for the intruders wearing badges or patches idea.
Thanks Ames. Hope everyone is well. :blowkiss:
No, can't get in. I tis such a good board that I hate to lose it.
YW! All is well, how about you?
I will PM someone over there for you, I will get back to ya.
I was skeptical at JMK. I would ALWAYS be skeptical to ESP 'connections' to the 'other side'. I was a bit surprised to see LE professional swayed by that stuff.
Although I might go for the intruders wearing badges or patches idea.
Yeah Hold...what did you think of the ONE intruder "vision"?
I was waiting for one of the psychics to put on Patsy's old Miss W. VA crown and sash that she was so proud of and say the intruder did that too. Honestly!
They SORT OF covered their bases about the security system by saying their impression was that the man had knowledge of security systems and measures. When they said this, a picture of the blinking red light of an activated security system was shown on camera.
BUT, then they blew that all to heck by just going with Lou Smit's " tall but skinny intruder who flew through the basement window and flew right out again". Not a word about how the suitcase they showed under the window didn't begin to hoist one of them out the tall window. Not one word about how the perp, who they say planned to take JBR ( so why didn't he if he really existed?) with him was going to get her out of the house. Not a word about any details, because it was all make believe. Right down to Carla's choking, which made me so ANGRY!!!:furious::furious:
NO ONE knows how JonBenet suffered that night, least of all those clowns!
ROTFL!!! That would have been a real hoot!
Yeah that Karla woman got on my last nerve. You know, in the show before the JB case last night, she said the same thing about Natalie Holloway..."I can't breathe! I can't breathe! I am short of breath, I have to stop..I have to stop and just look at the ocean". :rolleyes: PUHLEEZZZZ spare me the theatrics.
I agree...what sort of intruder plans such a thing...has been watching JB for a very long time..according to Karla. And he takes her...not out of the house to his car which she says is parked just down the street, but to the basement? And then...no semen is found on her at all. As far as anything sexual goes...all he does is inserts (what is described as very carefully) part of a paintbrush? What was the purpose in THAT? Taking her out the front door and into his car..and away from the house and her parents and brothers would have made so much more sense...and would have been so much easier...with so much lesser of a chance in getting caught.
SuperDave
10-05-2008, 05:15 PM
Dave,
Smit? one of the BPD? an elected or appointed gov't. official ( Alex Hunter, for example)?
Tell me more, please! Pretty please? :crazy:
It refers to Smit. (I was hoping that excerpt would be clear on that.) Chapter Eight is solely devoted to him.
SuperDave
10-05-2008, 05:17 PM
I was skeptical at JMK. I would ALWAYS be skeptical to ESP 'connections' to the 'other side'. I was a bit surprised to see LE professional swayed by that stuff.
You and me both, Holdon. I don't hold any truck with that stuff, myself.
Although I might go for the intruders wearing badges or patches idea.
Go ahead.
SeekingJana
10-05-2008, 06:05 PM
It refers to Smit. (I was hoping that excerpt would be clear on that.) Chapter Eight is solely devoted to him.
Well, I thought so, of course, but since he's not the only corrupt person up to their eyeballs in this case over the past 12 years, I didn't want to exclude other choices. My first post draft was Smit only. :)
You write very well and I am sure that when it's all put together, it will sway people back to the ELEMENTS of the crime itself, and away from the voodoo science of " touch DNA". And away from the lies.. back to the heart of the matter, which is that a sweet six year old was brutalized to death on Christmas night in her own home.
I'll buy the book and copies for everyone on my Christmas list. Get it out there for JonBenet. :)
HI AMES,
Wondering if you could help. I can log in to FFJ but as soon as I do and it accepts me, it then gives me a message that I cannot access the page. Have you had a problem with this or anyone?
Solace, I contacted someone over at FFJ for you by email, I will let you know when I get a reply.
Holdontoyourhat
10-06-2008, 01:30 AM
Yeah Hold...what did you think of the ONE intruder "vision"?
Yeah but there's no facts that rule out one intruder or three intruders. Three intruders makes more sense in an intruder kidnapping scenario. The RN author stated there were three.
Just like there's no facts that place JBR in the kitchen eating pineapple. We all know she ate pineappple, but where or with whom is not known.
Trocaria
10-06-2008, 02:02 AM
Nice to know I'm not the only person who thinks that.
Yo! THAT is not cool. I don't care how your opinion differs with his, wishing someone to DIE is pretty damn evil in and of its self.
JMO8778
10-06-2008, 02:55 AM
..I think what they mean is that at least if he's dead,he can no longer betray JB.Smit should be ashamed of himself;he is despicable.
UKGuy
10-06-2008, 05:00 AM
Yeah but there's no facts that rule out one intruder or three intruders. Three intruders makes more sense in an intruder kidnapping scenario. The RN author stated there were three.
Just like there's no facts that place JBR in the kitchen eating pineapple. We all know she ate pineappple, but where or with whom is not known.
Holdontoyourhat,
mmm, now this is logic 101. If the touch dna implies an intruder, then no further touch dna, foreign fingerprints, fibers etc must imply only one intruder.
Not unless you want to import special circumstances into your theory such as, they all wore biological white-suits except for the one intruder who sexually assaulted JonBenet?
Yeah but there's no facts that rule out one intruder or three intruders.
Is this you accepting that the touch dna is ambiguous?
.
RiverRat
10-06-2008, 10:04 AM
Nice to know I'm not the only person who thinks that.
Nope! We are a small factual faction.........
Nope! We are a small factual faction.........
I was just checking out your signature..and seeing those q's (8's ...Patsy's and the RN author's) side by side again, just makes me shake my head. How can anyone look at just that ONE comparison...and think that anyone BUT Patsy wrote the RN? How can they not see that Patsy and the RN author are one in the same? What the heck sort of chances is there...that Patsy (someone KNOWN to be in that house at the time of the murder)..and the RN author would write their q's (8's) the EXACT same way? No difference. What are the odds?
I am SO off topic...but, just seeing those comparisons ticks me off. Any difference between Patsy's handwriting and the RN's (what LITTLE difference there is) could be explain simply by the Sharpie that she used to write her samples with. Everyone knows that a Sharpie pen has a felt tip...like a magic marker. Everybody also knows that in time, a felt tip will lose it's original shape...get flatter, everytime it is used. The Sharpie that Patsy used to write her samples with could have been brand new...the Sharpie in her home that night that she used to write the RN with, could have been months old. The two will write differently...if that is the case. This could explain any of the differences (which are few) between Patsy's sample, and the original RN.
I could not believe how bad this show was. Carla Baron and John Oliver just totally picked up on Lou Smit's nonsense and spewed it back out. Like Maui4me, the first thing I noticed was the absence of any mention of JonBenet's head fracture. I also loved the scenario of the "security guard" wandering the house for hours, writing the lengthiest ransom note ever seen, and then hiding in the closet knowing the family would come home. He had the whole house to hide in but chose a place either parent or JonBenet herself might have opened soon after entering the room? What a crock. This show was just awful. I was really looking forward to it, but this answered nothing. As my sister said, "They didn't come up with any real fact that wasn't easily available to all - and left a lot out."
\
SuperDave
10-06-2008, 03:03 PM
..I think what they mean is that at least if he's dead,he can no longer betray JB.Smit should be ashamed of himself;he is despicable.
Yes, that is what I meant. I'm sorry if I came off as overly harsh.
Trocaria, it's not the difference of opinion that bothers me; it's everything else.
weasel
10-06-2008, 03:34 PM
<<Horrible old Lou Smit, just DIE already!!!>>
A bit harsh don't you think?
KoldKase
10-06-2008, 04:57 PM
Harsh? How about selling out a murdered child to keep your own ego in accolades, not to mention, make a few bucks?
If Tracey and Smit REALLY endorse this BS, then they are really ignorant and nothing they've ever said about this murder has any credibility whatsoever.
If not, they're as corrupt as the devil himself.
Take your pick.
I could not believe how bad this show was. Carla Baron and John Oliver just totally picked up on Lou Smit's nonsense and spewed it back out. Like Maui4me, the first thing I noticed was the absence of any mention of JonBenet's head fracture. I also loved the scenario of the "security guard" wandering the house for hours, writing the lengthiest ransom note ever seen, and then hiding in the closet knowing the family would come home. He had the whole house to hide in but chose a place either parent or JonBenet herself might have opened soon after entering the room? What a crock. This show was just awful. I was really looking forward to it, but this answered nothing. As my sister said, "They didn't come up with any real fact that wasn't easily available to all - and left a lot out."
\
It was me that noticed that the head blow was never mentioned. Maui4me said this...
Quote from Maui4me:
"Well I watched this episode and the one on Natalie Holloway... they both made perfect sense to me and both verified what my gut has told me. I know many of you disagree and I respect you for that, please respect me for my beliefs... if the killer has killed again as they think, it is sad a killer is running loose... JMHO"
Harsh? How about selling out a murdered child to keep your own ego in accolades, not to mention, make a few bucks?
If Tracey and Smit REALLY endorse this BS, then they are really ignorant and nothing they've ever said about this murder has any credibility whatsoever.
If not, they're as corrupt as the devil himself.
Take your pick.
I prefer to refer to them as Trashy and Sh!t
SuperDave
10-06-2008, 10:56 PM
I prefer to refer to them as Trashy and Sh!t
OH! Nasty.
JMO8778
10-06-2008, 11:34 PM
good one for tracey,Ames.
I call Smit,Smit the Schmuck.and Dr Beuf is Dr Beuf Goof.
DeeDee249
10-06-2008, 11:47 PM
I prefer to refer to them as Trashy and Sh!t
LOL! Sounds like a comedy team. "And now, ladies & gentlemen, I present the comedy team of Trashy & ****".
Oh wait....I forgot they ARE a comedy team. Part of the Bouder DA traveling circus team. Just picture one of those "clown cars"- you know, a little VW Beetle filled with clowns, and one by one out comes Hunter, Hofstrom, Haney, Smit, Lacy,Tracy and the R defense team. That's a LOTTA clowns.
JMO8778
10-07-2008, 12:06 AM
ROFL!!! that is just too funny,Deedee!!! :D
RiverRat
10-07-2008, 08:31 AM
I was just checking out your signature..and seeing those q's (8's ...Patsy's and the RN author's) side by side again, just makes me shake my head. How can anyone look at just that ONE comparison...and think that anyone BUT Patsy wrote the RN? How can they not see that Patsy and the RN author are one in the same? What the heck sort of chances is there...that Patsy (someone KNOWN to be in that house at the time of the murder)..and the RN author would write their q's (8's) the EXACT same way? No difference. What are the odds?
I am SO off topic...but, just seeing those comparisons ticks me off. Any difference between Patsy's handwriting and the RN's (what LITTLE difference there is) could be explain simply by the Sharpie that she used to write her samples with. Everyone knows that a Sharpie pen has a felt tip...like a magic marker. Everybody also knows that in time, a felt tip will lose it's original shape...get flatter, everytime it is used. The Sharpie that Patsy used to write her samples with could have been brand new...the Sharpie in her home that night that she used to write the RN with, could have been months old. The two will write differently...if that is the case. This could explain any of the differences (which are few) between Patsy's sample, and the original RN.
THANK YOU!!! :blowkiss: My avatar and my signature were chosen very carefully and makes me feel like I really don't need to say anything more after all these years.
OH! Nasty.
LOL..yeah...isn't it though. It's well deserved, IMO. :)
LOL! Sounds like a comedy team. "And now, ladies & gentlemen, I present the comedy team of Trashy & ****".
Oh wait....I forgot they ARE a comedy team. Part of the Bouder DA traveling circus team. Just picture one of those "clown cars"- you know, a little VW Beetle filled with clowns, and one by one out comes Hunter, Hofstrom, Haney, Smit, Lacy,Tracy and the R defense team. That's a LOTTA clowns.
LOL Now THAT is funny!
THANK YOU!!! :blowkiss: My avatar and my signature were chosen very carefully and makes me feel like I really don't need to say anything more after all these years.
Awww, you are welcome! I agree...with your avatar and your signature, what more can a person say. They both speak volumes...a picture is worth a thousand words...or in this case 4....THERE WAS NO INTRUDER.
What, in your opinion, do you think that Patsy was saying there at JB grave...when she put her hands up around her neck? Do you think that she is saying.."I am sorry, that it had to come to this?" or "I didn't mean to snap?" or "I HAD to do it JonBenét, I had no other choice", or what? What do you think was going on in her mind at that moment.
SeekingJana
10-07-2008, 09:53 AM
Awww, you are welcome! I agree...with your avatar and your signature, what more can a person say. They both speak volumes...a picture is worth a thousand words...or in this case 4....THERE WAS NO INTRUDER.
What, in your opinion, do you think that Patsy was saying there at JB grave...when she put her hands up around her neck? Do you think that she is saying.."I am sorry, that it had to come to this?" or "I didn't mean to snap?" or "I HAD to do it JonBenét, I had no other choice", or what? What do you think was going on in her mind at that moment.
I think River Rat's photo shows Paty's extreme lack of personal boundaries. She engulfed JonBenet into her own internal self. We have evidence of this both pre and post mortem.
1) Dressing like her little girl when the trend went out of style in the 60's.
2) Conversely, all of the costumes of JBR's which mimicked Patsy's.
3) The beauty pageant drive to begin with
after death:
1) Patsy's very telling interview in which she says that at least JBR would never know what it was like to have cancer ( AS IF JBR's death was better than cancer would have been- Patsy being the cancer survivor at that time), nor would JBR know what it was like to turn 40 ( Patsy's extreme vanity at her fading youth and 40th birthday during that time period).
2) Patsy dressing JBR up in pageant attire and a tiara in her casket- reminiscent of Patsy's pageant attire on display in the Boulder house Christmas parade of homes.
3) Patsy's navy and white " power suit", the suit she wore on CNN right after the murder- practically identical to the very mature looking suit JBR is wearing on the back of DOI.
4) AND, what River Rat is referencing directly, Patsy's obsession with her NECK after JBR's garotting.
She wore either short, multi-strand pearls or a scarf in interviews for years.
Patsy definitely had a neck phobia/ fetish- take your pick.
Some would say it was akin to Lady McBeth's handwashing OCD. I tend to agree.
gaia227
10-07-2008, 12:06 PM
Eventhough I am very skeptical I still watch it with some interest....perhaps because I find the male psychic in all of his brooding seriousness a little sexy......
I thought this show was particulary lame because they could not even go into the house.....I know they wanted to profile a big case for the season premiere but this show reeked of desperation. They could have picked another high profile case (there are plenty to choose)from where they could actually go to the location - it would have seemed a lot more authentic. I couldn't even watch the whole thing I was so cheesed out.
Here is an interesting article about Carla (not favorable).
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/carla_baron/carla_report.html
Eventhough I am very skeptical I still watch it with some interest....perhaps because I find the male psychic in all of his brooding seriousness a little sexy......
I thought this show was particulary lame because they could not even go into the house.....I know they wanted to profile a big case for the season premiere but this show reeked of desperation. They could have picked another high profile case (there are plenty to choose)from where they could actually go to the location - it would have seemed a lot more authentic. I couldn't even watch the whole thing I was so cheesed out.
Here is an interesting article about Carla (not favorable).
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/carla_baron/carla_report.html
WOW! Thanks for the article link. She sure is bogus...
Below is a quote by Carla..that makes me :waitasec: say..."Say what?"
“I don’t think it’s about the accuracy. I think it’s about the assistance that I give.”4 (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/carla_baron/carla_report.html#Footnote 4)
From Ames: What good is the assistance, if the accurancy doesn't count?
SuperDave
10-07-2008, 02:19 PM
Awww, you are welcome! I agree...with your avatar and your signature, what more can a person say. They both speak volumes...a picture is worth a thousand words...or in this case 4....THERE WAS NO INTRUDER.
What, in your opinion, do you think that Patsy was saying there at JB grave...when she put her hands up around her neck? Do you think that she is saying.."I am sorry, that it had to come to this?" or "I didn't mean to snap?" or "I HAD to do it JonBenét, I had no other choice", or what? What do you think was going on in her mind at that moment.
Pardon my butting in, but I think she was thinking ALL of those things.
Though I do not deny that she experienced terrible grief the rest of her life.
"It was an evil spirit possessed you, Patsy. I pray now it is satisfied."
RiverRat
10-07-2008, 02:54 PM
To me......the pic looks like typical Patsy looking down and admiring the beauty that is her daughter....she did not see a grave, all she could see was her picture perfect off-spring and had blocked off what was reality....that's an " Awwww, Bless your little pretty heart" expression to me.
And all of the other above honorable mentions!
I do apologize for getting caught up in the insanity that is Casey Anthony, but this is the closest look I have had since I lost Patsy of witnessing the real monsters we have to warn our little ones about......someone that will lie through their fricking teeth without batting an eye even though they know that their lies are not being believed except for by one person - the Liar herself.
But have I walked away from JonBenet? Hah - the Real EVIL Ones in this World Wish!
weasel
10-07-2008, 04:37 PM
<<Harsh? How about selling out a murdered child to keep your own ego in accolades, not to mention, make a few bucks?>>
Yes ... HARSH. Do you have any proof, any at all, that Smit doesn't actually believe his theory and honestly thinks he's doing right? And even if what you accuse him of was true, does that give you the right to make a ghastly statement like that and USE a murdered child to justify it?
KoldKase
10-07-2008, 05:03 PM
<< Harsh? How about selling out a murdered child to keep your own ego in accolades, not to mention, make a few bucks?>>
Yes ... HARSH. Do you have any proof, any at all, that Smit doesn't actually believe his theory and honestly thinks he's doing right?
Asked and answered.
If Tracey and Smit REALLY endorse this BS, then they are really ignorant and nothing they've ever said about this murder has any credibility whatsoever.
<<
And even if what you accuse him of was true, does that give you the right to make a ghastly statement like that and USE a murdered child to justify it?
I didn't actually MAKE the original statement to which you first objected, if that's your point of reference, but yeah, freedom of speech and all that.
So back to what I DID say: taste is relative, and Smit and Tracey have NONE themselves in putting this bull out as credible. And THEY USED A MURDERED CHILD and have for over a decade to do NOTHING but promote themselves, IMO.
So...pot...kettle.... When they put that blasphemy on TV and preen around leading those bad cons to repeat their "intruder" spin as if it was all news...AND LITERALLY HAD A VOICE OVER SAYING THIS WAS NEWS...and the STAKES are a child murdered and her killer never caught nor tried...I hardly think anyone can say anything bad enough to match that. Words just do NOT suffice, because they've now PROVEN they have been LYING AND SHILLING ALL ALONG, and when you LIE AND SHILL to SPREAD DISINFORMATION IN A CHILD MURDER, that's almost as low as...well...MURDERING A CHILD.
Unless you are arguing they DO believe those bad actors and are FALLING FOR THAT CON...in which case...now we know how the Scamseys conned them all these years, and it's back to what I said in the first place: that would mean they are just REALLY STUPID.
And that's my opinion and if you don't like it, you can use the scroll button.
RiverRat
10-07-2008, 05:04 PM
Weasel is it? Got it....you stated this:
"And even if what you accuse him of was true, does that give you the right to make a ghastly statement like that and USE a murdered child to justify it?"
Ummmmmmmmmm - Yes. That's kind of our whole point. Way too much BullSmit has this case stinking all the way up to the High Heaven JonBenet is safe in. Have a nice day. :)
JMO8778
10-08-2008, 03:05 AM
What, in your opinion, do you think that Patsy was saying there at JB grave...when she put her hands up around her neck? Do you think that she is saying.."I am sorry, that it had to come to this?" or "I didn't mean to snap?" or "I HAD to do it JonBenét, I had no other choice", or what? What do you think was going on in her mind at that moment.
Patsy: I hope they get a good picture of me!
really...and I think her second thought (although I agree w all the thoughts posted),was that her little beauty queen was permanently immortalized as such,and just as she said..she'll never have to know cancer,the death of a child...etc.somehow these things made it easier for her to cope.
I esp. agree w. SJ's thoughts about dressing her as a beauty queen in her coffin...IMO it would have been harder for Patsy to cope if she'd been dressed as the normal,everyday little girl that she truly was.this immortalized her forever.
weasel
10-08-2008, 09:11 AM
<<Weasel is it? Got it....you stated this>>
Rat is it? got that ..... What my point is, is that whether or not you agree or disagree with Smit's theories does not justify wishing death on him or anyone else connected to this case or any other case. And as far as his BullSmit stinking up the case, maybe if Boulder PD hadn't stunk it up in the first place, JB would have justice.
Patsy: I hope they get a good picture of me!
really...and I think her second thought (although I agree w all the thoughts posted),was that her little beauty queen was permanently immortalized as such,and just as she said..she'll never have to know cancer,the death of a child...etc.somehow these things made it easier for her to cope.
I esp. agree w. SJ's thoughts about dressing her as a beauty queen in her coffin...IMO it would have been harder for Patsy to cope if she'd been dressed as the normal,everyday little girl that she truly was.this immortalized her forever.
LOL..yep, I can just hear her now.
SuperDave
10-08-2008, 01:43 PM
Rat is it? got that ..... What my point is, is that whether or not you agree or disagree with Smit's theories does not justify wishing death on him or anyone else connected to this case or any other case.
I've been around this case too long to be lectured by anyone.
And as far as his BullSmit stinking up the case, maybe if Boulder PD hadn't stunk it up in the first place, JB would have justice.
The Boulder PD was building a solid case. Scott Peterson had less against him. This guy mucked it up. If you have a more suitable punishment in mind, I'd like to hear it.
<<Weasel is it? Got it....you stated this>>
Rat is it? got that ..... What my point is, is that whether or not you agree or disagree with Smit's theories does not justify wishing death on him or anyone else connected to this case or any other case. And as far as his BullSmit stinking up the case, maybe if Boulder PD hadn't stunk it up in the first place, JB would have justice.
Smit doesn't seem to care about JB at all, or solving this case. So, why should anybody (besides his family and the RST care about HIM)?
I've been around this case too long to be lectured by anyone.
The Boulder PD was building a solid case. Scott Peterson had less against him. This guy mucked it up. If you have a more suitable punishment in mind, I'd like to hear it.
Just on this board alone, you have 3,645 posts...compared to Weasel's 210, but who's counting?
JMO8778
10-08-2008, 03:11 PM
Smit doesn't seem to care about JB at all, or solving this case. So, why should anybody (besides his family and the RST care about HIM)?..and if you ask me,morally, he's just as guilty as the R's are!
Roy23
10-08-2008, 05:30 PM
I've been around this case too long to be lectured by anyone.
The Boulder PD was building a solid case. Scott Peterson had less against him. This guy mucked it up. If you have a more suitable punishment in mind, I'd like to hear it.
They weren't building a solid case. Smit didn't mess it up. Come on Dave. :liar:
DeeDee249
10-08-2008, 10:02 PM
The police would have gotten one of them to talk. If they'd been allowed to separate them and interview them THAT day.
There were some grave (no pun intended) errors by the police from the first moments, and we all know what they are, but for those here who are less familiar with the events of that morning:
Officer French (the first LE to arrive after the 911 call) failed to notice the open window or the latch preventing the wineceller door from opening. If he had, one of two things would have happened. 1. He'd have found JBR's body BEFORE her parents had handled it. OR 2. He'd have seen an empty room, and if JR was unaware of that fact and later placed her body in it, LE would have known the Rs were guilty right then and there.
Detective Arndt used poor judgement allowing JR and FW (or anyone but LE) to roam freely around an active crime scene. In was unclear who should have told the "victims' advocates" and friends to leave, but LE should have done so immediately. The fact that is was still presumed to be a kidnapping makes no difference- it was a crime scene none the less and the visitors had no business there.
A decision was made to allow the Rs to wait till the next day to be interviewed. That was a big mistake. They were allowed to leave unsearched and wearing clothes that should have been turned over to LE.
But the biggest blame lays with the DAs office. It isn't that they dropped the ball...they stole the ball and took it out of the game.
The police would have gotten one of them to talk. If they'd been allowed to separate them and interview them THAT day.
There were some grave (no pun intended) errors by the police from the first moments, and we all know what they are, but for those here who are less familiar with the events of that morning:
Officer French (the first LE to arrive after the 911 call) failed to notice the open window or the latch preventing the wineceller door from opening. If he had, one of two things would have happened. 1. He'd have found JBR's body BEFORE her parents had handled it. OR 2. He'd have seen an empty room, and if JR was unaware of that fact and later placed her body in it, LE would have known the Rs were guilty right then and there.
Detective Arndt used poor judgement allowing JR and FW (or anyone but LE) to roam freely around an active crime scene. In was unclear who should have told the "victims' advocates" and friends to leave, but LE should have done so immediately. The fact that is was still presumed to be a kidnapping makes no difference- it was a crime scene none the less and the visitors had no business there.
A decision was made to allow the Rs to wait till the next day to be interviewed. That was a big mistake. They were allowed to leave unsearched and wearing clothes that should have been turned over to LE.
But the biggest blame lays with the DAs office. It isn't that they dropped the ball...they stole the ball and took it out of the game.
You know, I wonder if French didn't notice that wide open basement window..because it wasn't opened when he went down there. That...to me...would have been quite noticable...an OPEN WINDOW. IMO..John opened it when he went missing for hours, before he "found" the body.
DeeDee249
10-08-2008, 11:20 PM
You know, I wonder if French didn't notice that wide open basement window..because it wasn't opened when he went down there. That...to me...would have been quite noticable...an OPEN WINDOW. IMO..John opened it when he went missing for hours, before he "found" the body.
I considered that, too. But it makes no sense for JR to have opened the window, point it out to FW and then tell him that he broke the window himself months before. Then, he closes it and admits to LE that he found it open, and DIDN'T TELL THEM.
If JR opened the window that morning, it had to be because he planned to have it appear as if that's how the "intruder" got in. So for some reason he changed his mind about that.
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 08:33 AM
<<Weasel is it? Got it....you stated this>>
Rat is it? got that ..... What my point is, is that whether or not you agree or disagree with Smit's theories does not justify wishing death on him or anyone else connected to this case or any other case. And as far as his BullSmit stinking up the case, maybe if Boulder PD hadn't stunk it up in the first place, JB would have justice.
How original.......:rolleyes:
That's a big Maybe there....however, I do agree that ALL law enforcement agents - which does include the District Attorney's Office even though they apparently do not know that in Boulder - shoulda, coulda, woulda that morning while John and Patsy were pulling the wool over their eyes. Smit just enabled their Victory! with his delusional Delorean ways.
Other than that - Dittoing SuperDave. Save the lecture as I've been around enough to know better than to put my hopes on a non-existing Intruder. It would have been nice though...I remember those early days when my heart was broke for those parents......right up to the moment that they sat down with CCN instead of BPD.
Have a Nice Day.
Rat!
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 08:39 AM
They weren't building a solid case. Smit didn't mess it up. Come on Dave. :liar:
What's up with the Liar icon, Roy?! I KNOW that you can't be addressing Dave as such......are you? Maybe it's Smit's Today Show fiasco where he reenacted the Intruder entering the basement window that you are referring to?
weasel
10-09-2008, 09:13 AM
<<Dittoing SuperDave>>
How original ..... Smit enabled their victory? Wow, he's good. How long was it before he got involved? Just wondering why the grand jury didn't see through his "BullSmit" and indict someone, anyone, for the crime. Not lecturing .. just stating facts. Dittoing ... ME
WEASEL
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 09:27 AM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. :sleep:
weasel
10-09-2008, 09:27 AM
<<They weren't building a solid case. Smit didn't mess it up>>
I agree. If their case was so solid, how could anyone "mess it up"? Facts are facts, regardless of who presents them or who doesn't.
weasel
10-09-2008, 09:33 AM
<<That's a big Maybe there>>
Not really...
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 10:04 AM
<<That's a big Maybe there>>
Not really...
You are right........it's a HUGE Maybe!
Roy23
10-09-2008, 10:18 AM
What's up with the Liar icon, Roy?! I KNOW that you can't be addressing Dave as such......are you? Maybe it's Smit's Today Show fiasco where he reenacted the Intruder entering the basement window that you are referring to?
I really did not know that was a liar icon. Of course I am not referring Dave as a liar, but to say that without Smit in the investigation then there would be a conviction is laughable.
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 10:27 AM
I really did not know that was a liar icon. Of course I am not referring Dave as a liar, but to say that without Smit in the investigation then there would be a conviction is laughable.
Thank you for clearing that up, but just what did you think that icon was for and why did you choose that one out of the many we have?
Enjoy your lonely laugh.
Roy23
10-09-2008, 10:53 AM
Thank you for clearing that up, but just what did you think that icon was for and why did you choose that one out of the many we have?
Enjoy your lonely laugh.
I really don't know why I chose it River Rat. If an apology would make you feel better then consider it done. My laugh is not really not that lonely. No matter how many conspiricy theorists we have compared to me and a couple of others, the fact remains that enough evidence never existed to indict nor convict the Ramseys. They have information that is not available to this site or previous book writers.
The fact remains that they have determined that the Ramsey's are cleared and now the case has gone in a new direction. It is hard to swallow for some of you, but they know things that you don't. Trying to claim a conspiricy is all you got.
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 11:57 AM
No apology necessary to me.....I'm just trying to get a feel of whom I am conversing with. And not knowing that the icon you chose was an innocent gesture reminds me of the games the Ramsey SpinTeam entertains us with. Sorry if I'm wrong for the first time!
Whoever "They" are have everything necessary to file charges except for a video tape, a confession and a live Patsy Ramsey. That's the real world and not some spin from a defense camp......the "q's" don't lie - Patsy wrote the note and not out of the goodness of her heart for some strange Intruder.
I have posted a new thread with new news today that so far has been ignored here even though it is very important! I have paid my dues with chitchatting over Who Did It to the point that it bores me, so why not hop over there for some new stuff?
Roy23
10-09-2008, 12:24 PM
No apology necessary to me.....I'm just trying to get a feel of whom I am conversing with. And not knowing that the icon you chose was an innocent gesture reminds me of the games the Ramsey SpinTeam entertains us with. Sorry if I'm wrong for the first time!
Whoever "They" are have everything necessary to file charges except for a video tape, a confession and a live Patsy Ramsey. That's the real world and not some spin from a defense camp......the "q's" don't lie - Patsy wrote the note and not out of the goodness of her heart for some strange Intruder.
I have posted a new thread with new news today that so far has been ignored here even though it is very important! I have paid my dues with chitchatting over Who Did It to the point that it bores me, so why not hop over there for some new stuff?
LOL Rat. I stick with the experts who have cleared everybody. Patsy did not write the note. If she did and they could have proved it, she would would have been indicted.
Is your news that you are talking about the Whites? It is nothing because they were never suspected in the first place. And also Lacy decided to publicly exonerate the Ramsey's. It was needed.
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 12:29 PM
LOL - Mary LacyTracey ala' John Mark Karr is your expert?!
Nuff said. Keep Moving.....Have a Nice Day. I know that I am!
Roy23
10-09-2008, 01:10 PM
LOL - Mary LacyTracey ala' John Mark Karr is your expert?!
Nuff said. Keep Moving.....Have a Nice Day. I know that I am!
Good luck living in the fantasy world.
Good luck living in the fantasy world.
You are the one living in a fantasy world with your intruder theory.
RiverRat
10-09-2008, 03:56 PM
Good luck living in the fantasy world.
Dear, my world is far from being a fantasy and it was so nice meeting you but I'm afraid our time together is now over. Tah Tah!
Roy23
10-09-2008, 04:25 PM
You are the one living in a fantasy world with your intruder theory.
Keep dreaming. Thats why nothing has changed in 12 years. Once they took their head out of their fanny's, they realized they had some DNA.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:04 PM
They weren't building a solid case.
They darn well were. People have been put away with a lot less. The only thing we're missing is the proverbial busload of nuns.
Smit didn't mess it up.
Not alone.
Come on Dave. :liar:
You "come on," Roy.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:05 PM
What's up with the Liar icon, Roy?! I KNOW that you can't be addressing Dave as such......are you?
He better not be!
Maybe it's Smit's Today Show fiasco where he reenacted the Intruder entering the basement window that you are referring to?
You mean the one that turned me from IDI to RDI?
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:08 PM
<<Dittoing SuperDave>>
How original ..... Smit enabled their victory? Wow, he's good.
He certainly gets people to think he is;
How long was it before he got involved?
About two months. He made up his mind after three days, nowhere NEAR long enough to read the file.
Just wondering why the grand jury didn't see through his "BullSmit" and indict someone, anyone, for the crime.
Lots of reasons, from what I can gather.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:11 PM
If their case was so solid, how could anyone "mess it up"?
By creating doubt where none exists. Ask OJ Simpson if you don't believe me.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:14 PM
Of course I am not referring Dave as a liar, but to say that without Smit in the investigation then there would be a conviction is laughable.
In a way, you're right. A lot of people bear the blame for it. In Smit's case he just provided a rationale for the DA's office to do what they wanted to do anyway.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:18 PM
No matter how many conspiricy theorists we have compared to me and a couple of others, the fact remains that enough evidence never existed to indict nor convict the Ramseys.
Nobody is claiming a conspiracy. We're talking about a single prosecutor who made up her mind from day one and who has never bothered to consult any of the people who actually worked the case (she was only a second-tier player in the early days). None of this is in any kind of dispute. The Ramseys have long claimed a conspiracy.
The fact remains that they have determined that the Ramsey's are cleared and now the case has gone in a new direction.
Something the DA has always meant to do. It's not a conspiracy theory when one person is doing it.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 07:24 PM
Patsy did not write the note.
I'm afraid she did. The "q"s don't lie. Neither do the "d"s or the "c"s. If there's one thing I trust in this case, it's my own eyes.
Here, have a look, on me:
http://blabbieville.tripod.com/
If she did and they could have proved it, she would would have been indicted.
Well, unfortunately in document analysis, what someone "knows" and what they can prove are often two different things. And I don't think there was ever an intent to indict in this case.
And also Lacy decided to publicly exonerate the Ramsey's. It was needed.
It was needed so she wouldn't leave office looking like a complete jacka**.
I considered that, too. But it makes no sense for JR to have opened the window, point it out to FW and then tell him that he broke the window himself months before. Then, he closes it and admits to LE that he found it open, and DIDN'T TELL THEM.
If JR opened the window that morning, it had to be because he planned to have it appear as if that's how the "intruder" got in. So for some reason he changed his mind about that.
Refresh my memory, was that open basement window seen by anybody, BUT John?
Keep dreaming. Thats why nothing has changed in 12 years. Once they took their head out of their fanny's, they realized they had some DNA.
Well, if that Touch DNA was so relevant, then why didn't they test the paintbrush handle, the blanket that JB was found wrapped in, the duct tape (which BTW had PATSY'S fibers on the STICKY side of it), and the garotte? If they find unsourced DNA on all of those places...then and ONLY then...will the intruder theory become reality for me.
SuperDave
10-09-2008, 08:52 PM
Well, if that Touch DNA was so relevant, then why didn't they test the paintbrush handle, the blanket that JB was found wrapped in, the duct tape (which BTW had PATSY'S fibers on the STICKY side of it), and the garotte? If they find unsourced DNA on all of those places...then and ONLY then...will the intruder theory become reality for me.
Might help.
KoldKase
10-11-2008, 12:58 AM
Roy, you don't know the story of Pinocchio, and you just accidently chose the icon where his nose is growing when he's LYING to respond to Dave's post?
I see you have Team Ramsey's technique of evading, obscuring, and denying down Pat. (haha It's a pun.)
RiverRat
10-11-2008, 08:46 AM
Roy, you don't know the story of Pinocchio, and you just accidently chose the icon where his nose is growing when he's LYING to respond to Dave's post?
I see you have Team Ramsey's technique of evading, obscuring, and denying down Pat. (haha It's a pun.)
After all these years and we aren't supposed to notice the obvious.....
:loser: I have no clue what that icon is for, just used it for no reason. :rolleyes:
After all these years and we aren't supposed to notice the obvious.....
:loser: I have no clue what that icon is for, just used it for no reason. :rolleyes:
Maybe he just thought that SuperDave has a big nose or something...:rolleyes:
Yeah, he knew what it meant.
SuperDave
10-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Maybe he just thought that SuperDave has a big nose or something...:rolleyes:
Yeah, he knew what it meant.
Well, if I wanted to be insulted, I wouldn't have to come here.
DeeDee249
10-11-2008, 11:19 PM
Refresh my memory, was that open basement window seen by anybody, BUT John?
As I recall, FW and JR had just gone to the basement after LA told them to "take a look around". The open window was in the "train room", just to the right of the wineceller; it is the room that also had the suitcase, I believe. It was JR who called it to the attention of FW, and then he immediately added that he had broken it himself that summer; he didn't recall whether he had asked their housekeeper's husband to fix it.
This whole conversation took only seconds; immediately after JR went to the wineceller, followed by FW, and "found" his daughter.
One thing I have never seen was any comments from FW rebutting JR's claims that he had to untie JBR's wrists because they were "tighly bound" (his words). We all know that her wrists were NOT tightly tied, because there are no marks on them but also because rigor mortis was advanced and her wrists were 17 inches apart. One wrist had NO ligature and they other was very loosely tied. The cord was so loose it could have been slipped over her wrist without untying it.
It would have taken some time for JR to have untied them; he also claims to have untied her legs and pulled the tape from her lips.
FW was right behind him; if JR had done these things, he'd have seen it.
Also, nothing was ever mentioned about her legs being tied together. LA mentions her arms being up with no support, as well as the cord hanging from her neck and wrist, nothing about the position of the legs. Are they apart or close together, as they would have been if they were tied.
We know FW has said he picked up the tape and looked at it, then threw it down on the blanket, where it is seen in the photo. This would mean his prints should be on it, as well as JR's, who also admitted handling it. What I am thinking is that if FW did NOT see JR pull the tape off of touch it then- and JR's prints are on it- that would mean that JR handles the tape BEFORE "finding" the body. And we all know what that implies.
Has anyone seen anything about whose prints were on that tape?
JMO8778
10-12-2008, 12:54 AM
After all these years and we aren't supposed to notice the obvious.....
:loser: I have no clue what that icon is for, just used it for no reason. :rolleyes:reminds me of Patsy saying they had no idea why they used the words 'and hence'.
RiverRat
10-12-2008, 09:28 AM
reminds me of Patsy saying they had no idea why they used the words 'and hence'.
Like the Christmas letter she sent out the year AFTER JonBenet's murder that contained the "and hence" words again?! Like no one would notice?! :crazy:
Roy23
10-12-2008, 12:57 PM
I'm afraid she did. The "q"s don't lie. Neither do the "d"s or the "c"s. If there's one thing I trust in this case, it's my own eyes.
Here, have a look, on me:
http://blabbieville.tripod.com/
Well, unfortunately in document analysis, what someone "knows" and what they can prove are often two different things. And I don't think there was ever an intent to indict in this case.
It was needed so she wouldn't leave office looking like a complete jacka**.
LOL! National Enquirer!
Lot's of people cannot be excluded from things. I hope to live in a town where I can kill whomever I want and the city government doesn't care to prosecute me. Thank God this case is finally on track.
SuperDave
10-12-2008, 01:57 PM
LOL! National Enquirer!
Go ahead and laugh! That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Okay, if that's the way you want it, that's the way you'll get it. Roy, my suggestion is for you to try to find an original, unedited copy of "Sex, Lies and Handwriting." Skip to chapter 18. I'd scan it in myself, but that's not really an option right now.
They couldn't even remember who wrote the captions in the family photo album.
Lot's of people cannot be excluded from things.
We're not talking about "lots of people," though.
I hope to live in a town where I can kill whomever I want and the city government doesn't care to prosecute me.
Move to Boulder with a couple mil. No sweat.
Thank God this case is finally on track.
This case will never be on track as long as the original bunglers from the DA's office are running the show. It is time to start over.
JMO8778
10-12-2008, 03:41 PM
Like the Christmas letter she sent out the year AFTER JonBenet's murder that contained the "and hence" words again?! Like no one would notice?! :crazy:I think it was the liturgy of the day for their church, but yes,and what's odd is that she even goes on to say she AND Jr EACH wrote a version of it,which they merged together into one final version.
IMO,she just gave away the way the RN was constructed. :) WTG Patsy.she just couldn't stop confessing.
SeekingJana
10-13-2008, 03:01 PM
They darn well were. People have been put away with a lot less. The only thing we're missing is the proverbial busload of nuns.
Ohh, this comment just reminded me of another Ram theory that SueBee shopped around the forums for a while. Seems there was a homeless man who lived right in the alley behind the Ramsey house. Right there where he could see up into JBR's bedroom, see her in the back yard, etc.
Said man was " taken in" by the priest/ clergy and allowed to stay part time in the church on the other side of the alley way.
Homeless man/ imaginary suspect's nickname? Churchmouse
annmarie62
12-03-2009, 10:54 PM
Ummm..nobody is starting an argument. All I said was...the truth..the head blow was not even mentioned. With all due respect...how is that starting an argument with you?:confused:
I agree that the MASSIVE head blow- a major factor in this case - was totally ignored!! ALSO- the "psychics" said (one of them, anyway) that the 'ransom' note was left on the SPIRAL staircase, when it has always been revealed that the note was left on the BACK (informal) staircase, which the family routinely used as they awakened. BIG BIG discrepancy, imo!!
SuperDave
12-04-2009, 11:16 AM
I'm not usually one to re-open old wounds, but can ANYONE remind me why I play nice with IDI?
DeeDee249
12-04-2009, 10:45 PM
I'm not usually one to re-open old wounds, but can ANYONE remind me why I play nice with IDI?
Because you are a gentleman?
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