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Georgia PI
10-15-2008, 01:39 PM
Discuss that day only.

I have requested this thread because the information of that day's event's are getting scattered throuout the pings thread and is making it difficult to keep up with the informaion

Warning - Please discuss that days events only here.

Ping Map for June 16, 2008

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103915041605280294744.00045939495d21e691a46&ll=28.558592,-81.309128&spn=0.265966,0.43396&t=h&z=11

curiositycat
10-15-2008, 01:42 PM
Great map GPI. I am curious as to why you added JB on this list. I have to say it goes along with a theory I have had. Just curious if this was a coincidence or you purposely added this.
Thanks for putting this together..either way!:)

MommaD
10-15-2008, 01:47 PM
O/t kinda lol I have looked and looked for the calendar all of you are doing and can't find it.. also anyone know right off hand LA birthday and AL..?? or where I could find them.. looked for that dump of just ppl statements they wrote has alot of bd's on there but cant find that either.. sorry to be a pain.. TIA very much

Georgia PI
10-15-2008, 01:49 PM
Great map GPI. I am curious as to why you added JB on this list. I have to say it goes along with a theory I have had. Just curious if this was a coincidence or you purposely added this.
Thanks for putting this together..either way!:)


I will be adding it to all the maps, just as a place of reference.

Georgia PI
10-15-2008, 01:53 PM
O/t kinda lol I have looked and looked for the calendar all of you are doing and can't find it.. also anyone know right off hand LA birthday and AL..?? or where I could find them.. looked for that dump of just ppl statements they wrote has alot of bd's on there but cant find that either.. sorry to be a pain.. TIA very much

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&month=6&year=2008&do=&c=4

aqua_mom
10-15-2008, 01:53 PM
Great map GPI. I am curious as to why you added JB on this list. I have to say it goes along with a theory I have had. Just curious if this was a coincidence or you purposely added this.
Thanks for putting this together..either way!:)

Now I am curious too, are you willing to share?

bullet225ho
10-15-2008, 01:54 PM
I do know that on the 16th KC did NOT use her personal cell phone for 11hrs that day (22hrs if you go into the 17th)

Georgia PI
10-15-2008, 01:55 PM
Now I am curious too, are you willing to share?

I will be adding it to all the maps, just as a place of reference.

But who knows, it might come in use.

aqua_mom
10-15-2008, 01:58 PM
Does anyone think this is strange? It looks to be approx 2 miles from AL's house, kind of far to be pinging if she's at his place. Any other thoughts?

txmama
10-15-2008, 01:59 PM
I need some edumacating on cell phone pings please.

My understanding is that the pings can come from towers in that area. So to me, when I look at the map and follow the pings it appears that she stays home until 4:18PM (or ping 22) and then she goes up to TonE's place and stays there. Could that be concluded by following the ping map?

Georgia PI
10-15-2008, 02:02 PM
I need some edumacating on cell phone pings please.

My understanding is that the pings can come from towers in that area. So to me, when I look at the map and follow the pings it appears that she stays home until 4:18PM (or ping 22) and then she goes up to TonE's place and stays there. Could that be concluded by following the ping map?

Remember, She could be anywhere from 2 - 5 miles of the radius of that tower

MommaD
10-15-2008, 02:06 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&month=6&year=2008&do=&c=4

Thank you..

ok on your map ping 14.. was she in that area at those hours that long?? do you know who those 2 numbers belong too?? I really feel she dumped little sweet caylee in this area to the landfill.. i worked up a map about 2 months ago in the astrology thread with soulscape and was shocked when these pings came out in that area.. great map georgia... also do you think casey knew jb before all this happened??

aqua_mom
10-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Remember, She could be anywhere from 2 - 5 miles of the radius of that tower

Wow, that's a lot of range. I guess it could be bounced down to the Amscot cell tower if the other towers are too busy. I'll have to look into that to see how many other towers are in the vicinity.

Praying4Caylee
10-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Remember, She could be anywhere from 2 - 5 miles of the radius of that tower

From the time George & Cindy left and up to 1:00 when the flurry of calls were made, is seems possible that Caylee died at home. Because after Casey left the A's residence she went to TL's house with no sign of Caylee.

Is this the presumed date that she went missing?

Pink Panther
10-15-2008, 02:15 PM
Remember, She could be anywhere from 2 - 5 miles of the radius of that tower
Great idea for this to have its own thread Georgia and thanks so much for sharing the map!

A question...Is the Sawgrass Appts. within 2-5 miles of the Ping 1 location as well? I mean, if she travelled there from her parent's home to the Sawgrass appartments would she probably still be pinging from that Ping 1 location?

Spangle
10-15-2008, 02:15 PM
I do know that on the 16th KC did NOT use her personal cell phone for 11hrs that day (22hrs if you go into the 17th)

Which hours was that?

bullet225ho
10-15-2008, 02:17 PM
On the 16ty these are times when KC was NOT using her personal phone.

6/16 7:45am 8:46am (1hr break)
6/16 8:46am 11:47am (3hr break)
6/16 11:47am 12:53pm(1hr+ break)
6/16 4:25pm 6:31pm(2hr+break)
6/16 8:03pm 10:59am 6/17(15hr break)

ElizaAvalon
10-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Nice work, as always, Georgia PI. Thanks for the thread. I've been thinking about June 16th over and over in my head and I have some thoughts.

Regarding Ping 14:

I have a post on the ping thread about the pattern of the 2 phone calls (and many others) that have no celltower info. IMO, these are calls that go to voicemail. These calls have these characteristics:

They come in pairs and both numbers are at the same exact time. The order that they appear in the cell log is not necessarily the order that they occurred.
Bot numbers have the same exact duration.
The first number is always a call to the same number (407-242-xxxx)
The second number is always from one of Casey's contacts. Her parents and Mark H. seem to be the top 2 ignored.
Both numbers do not ping to a celltower.

In many cases there is an SMS text from "11" very soon after these 2 calls. I believe this is the cellphone service texting to her phone that she has voicemail.

Hope for the Best
10-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks for all your hard work. I was puzzled by the back and forth pings throughout the night, though. Then I realized that the Anthony house is right between the two towers, so maybe she was there all night and the reception just bounced back and forth between those two locations. If that's the case, it looks like she was at the Anthony's home, or nearby, pretty much all day until about 4:20. I wonder if CA gets home from work sometime after 4:30. Did KC leave then so she wouldn't have to see CA?

Pink Panther
10-15-2008, 02:22 PM
It would be really great to pull in all the text messages and phone calls for the 16th onto this same thread to really try and map out what she was doing! I know that several people on the ping thread have already done all of the work...could they be persuaded to post that information here???

Hope for the Best
10-15-2008, 02:24 PM
Does anyone think this is strange? It looks to be approx 2 miles from AL's house, kind of far to be pinging if she's at his place. Any other thoughts?

I noticed that, too. But, there are alot of businesses near that corner, like Sam's Club (I can't see KC going to Sam's, though), restaurants, and other things, so maybe she went out to eat or to the video store or something and it just happened to be picked up by the same cell tower as what would service Amscot.

Pink Panther
10-15-2008, 02:25 PM
Thanks for all your hard work. I was puzzled by the back and forth pings throughout the night, though. Then I realized that the Anthony house is right between the two towers, so maybe she was there all night and the reception just bounced back and forth between those two locations. If that's the case, it looks like she was at the Anthony's home, or nearby, pretty much all day until about 4:20. I wonder if CA gets home from work sometime after 4:30. Did KC leave then so she wouldn't have to see CA?
In her LE testimony CA states that she normally gets off work around 5- 5:30 on days when she goes in early and between 5:30-6 pm on days that she goes in later. GA states that in his new security job, he works Sunday - Thursday from 3pm-11pm. I'm not sure when he allegedly started that new job...Does anyone know?

SuziQ
10-15-2008, 02:31 PM
Thanks for all your hard work. I was puzzled by the back and forth pings throughout the night, though. Then I realized that the Anthony house is right between the two towers, so maybe she was there all night and the reception just bounced back and forth between those two locations. If that's the case, it looks like she was at the Anthony's home, or nearby, pretty much all day until about 4:20. I wonder if CA gets home from work sometime after 4:30. Did KC leave then so she wouldn't have to see CA?

And George claims they left around noonish. Did Casey park around the corner and wait for George to leave or maybe she never left?

HRCODEPINK
10-15-2008, 02:37 PM
In her LE testimony CA states that she normally gets off work around 5- 5:30 on days when she goes in early and between 5:30-6 pm on days that she goes in later. GA states that in his new security job, he works Sunday - Thursday from 3pm-11pm. I'm not sure when he allegedly started that new job...Does anyone know?

George works at Andrews International, which is a security company

aqua_mom
10-15-2008, 02:39 PM
I noticed that, too. But, there are alot of businesses near that corner, like Sam's Club (I can't see KC going to Sam's, though), restaurants, and other things, so maybe she went out to eat or to the video store or something and it just happened to be picked up by the same cell tower as what would service Amscot.

Yes, good point! I wish we had a timeline from AL for that evening. Too many questions.

What time did she arrive? Did she ever leave his place that night to run an errand? Did they go out to eat/shop/etc? Who's car did they use? Did he see her car in the parking lot?

TexasLil
10-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Here are the calls associated with pings 1 - 15 for this day:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=4285

TexasLil
10-15-2008, 02:43 PM
Calls for Pings 16 - 28:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=4286

FLjay
10-15-2008, 03:17 PM
From the time George & Cindy left and up to 1:00 when the flurry of calls were made, is seems possible that Caylee died at home. Because after Casey left the A's residence she went to TL's house with no sign of Caylee.

Is this the presumed date that she went missing?

Yeah, you know, that's what just hit me, too, like cold reality. I knew it, but this really spells it out. Wow.

THANKS for the ping maps, info & links, GeorgiaPI, one_hooah_wife, TexasLil, and others.

Soulscape
10-15-2008, 03:18 PM
Thank you very much.. wow great minds and memories on ws.. lol I can't find my way out of a paper sack.. lol

so that would make lee a sag. then on the horoscopes.. ?? right.. humm.. cos that rumor of someone helping casey seems to be a sag.. as per tuba in the astrology thread.. its a young person but not a kid.. lol dont know how i would ever find another sag. in all the players of young age.. would take me forever..
thanks again. so far i believe lee fits the bill tho..

Hi MommaD,

Lee is Scorpio, so is Jesse G. The possibility of an accomplice is just that -- a possibility. Personally, I don't believe she had one....

Thanks,
Soulscape

alwaysonmymind
10-15-2008, 03:25 PM
For some unknown reason, this ping stands out to me????

idlewild
10-15-2008, 03:27 PM
When the pings are bouncing between towers back and forth like that, is that her moving, or a new call each time? Or is she between those towers so it keeps switching?
Do we think she was AT Lee's house for some of this time? Would make sense that she wouldn't need to call him if she were WITH him.

bullet225ho
10-15-2008, 03:31 PM
Does anyone have a way that they could see how many times KC talked/text with Lee on her personal phone?

Not on this day....but EVERY day that we have a record of calls.

ElizaAvalon
10-15-2008, 03:41 PM
A few interesting things about June 16th:

1. the first call of the morning (after texting and talking to Tony all night long until 3:22 am) is at 7:45:51 - a call from the Anthony house phone that she lets go to voicemail.

2. if you look at the pings, it seems that Casey is at her parents' home until 4:25 when she drives to Tony's house. But didn't her father say that she left the house at noon? If that's the case, she didn't go very far. She may have just drove around the block until her father left for work and then went back to the house.

3. From 4:25 on it looks like she drives to Tony's and stays there as the pings are consistent and there are no texts to or from him for the rest of the day.

housemaid25
10-15-2008, 05:23 PM
A few interesting things about June 16th:

1. the first call of the morning (after texting and talking to Tony all night long until 3:22 am) is at 7:45:51 - a call from the Anthony house phone that she lets go to voicemail.

2. if you look at the pings, it seems that Casey is at her parents' home until 4:25 when she drives to Tony's house. But didn't her father say that she left the house at noon? If that's the case, she didn't go very far. She may have just drove around the block until her father left for work and then went back to the house.

3. From 4:25 on it looks like she drives to Tony's and stays there as the pings are consistent and there are no texts to or from him for the rest of the day.


Why would someone be calling her cell phone from the house phone if she was at home? I mean, if GA or CA needed to talk to her why didn't they just knock on the bedroom door, that would make sense to me, but 99% of the stuff these people do doesn't make sense to me. :waitasec: Makes me wonder if she was really at home or just somewhere close by.

momtective
10-15-2008, 05:32 PM
Why would someone be calling her cell phone from the house phone if she was at home? I mean, if GA or CA needed to talk to her why didn't they just knock on the bedroom door, that would make sense to me, but 99% of the stuff these people do doesn't make sense to me. :waitasec: Makes me wonder if she was really at home or just somewhere close by.

I have called my cell from my home phone many times cause I couldn't find the darn thing! Just a thought...

TexasLil
10-15-2008, 05:35 PM
I have called my cell from my home phone many times cause I couldn't find the darn thing! Just a thought...

You can also call your cell phone number to access your voicemail if you don't use the actual voice mail link in your phone. I do this sometimes as it's quicker than going through menus to find the voicemail link.

housemaid25
10-15-2008, 05:40 PM
I have called my cell from my home phone many times cause I couldn't find the darn thing! Just a thought...

Thank you, that makes more sense, if she was texting/talking to Tone half the night, wakes up, maybe still half asleep and can't find her phone so she calls it to see where its at. :)

housemaid25
10-15-2008, 05:45 PM
You can also call your cell phone number to access your voicemail if you don't use the actual voice mail link in your phone. I do this sometimes as it's quicker than going through menus to find the voicemail link.

I hadn't thought of that either. You all are just thinking faster then me, I was justing thinking why in the world would someone be calling her if she was right there in the house. LOL

TexasLil
10-15-2008, 06:00 PM
Why would someone be calling her cell phone from the house phone if she was at home? I mean, if GA or CA needed to talk to her why didn't they just knock on the bedroom door, that would make sense to me, but 99% of the stuff these people do doesn't make sense to me. :waitasec: Makes me wonder if she was really at home or just somewhere close by.

Also remember that Lee's house is only a few blocks away and would ping the same towers. It could be she was at Lee's and received calls from the GA and CA's house.

AZlawyer
10-15-2008, 09:54 PM
Why would someone be calling her cell phone from the house phone if she was at home? I mean, if GA or CA needed to talk to her why didn't they just knock on the bedroom door, that would make sense to me, but 99% of the stuff these people do doesn't make sense to me. :waitasec: Makes me wonder if she was really at home or just somewhere close by.

Well, I have a teenage daughter and if she is oversleeping because she was up all night texting with her friends and her bedroom door is locked, I'll call her cell phone to wake her up. Maybe Cindy was calling to tell her to wake up and take care of Caylee because Cindy had to go to work? :waitasec:

I'm a newbie here, BTW, but have been following the case from the beginning.

ElizaAvalon
10-15-2008, 11:18 PM
Well, I have a teenage daughter and if she is oversleeping because she was up all night texting with her friends and her bedroom door is locked, I'll call her cell phone to wake her up. Maybe Cindy was calling to tell her to wake up and take care of Caylee because Cindy had to go to work? :waitasec:

I'm a newbie here, BTW, but have been following the case from the beginning.

Welcome AZlawyer!

And, yes, I agree with you. Casey ignores her mother's/father's phone calls fro home consistently...

Pink Panther
10-24-2008, 10:11 AM
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???

TexasLil
10-24-2008, 10:32 AM
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???

2:52 p.m. Jesse Calls Casey - 11.2 min
4:21 p.m. Casey Calls Jesse - 1.3 min

In Jesse's statement give July 23rd he stated the call was 12 min. and he possibly heard Caylee in the background. He stated Casey called him though. Casey was talking about her mom no longer moving out. She had to find a place to live and her parents were getting a divorce.

Pink Panther
10-24-2008, 10:34 AM
2:52 p.m. Jesse Calls Casey - 11.2 min
4:21 p.m. Casey Calls Jesse - 1.3 min

In Jesse's statement give July 23rd he stated the call was 12 min. and he possibly heard Caylee in the background. He stated Casey called him though. Casey was talking about her mom no longer moving out. She had to find a place to live and her parents were getting a divorce.

Thank you TexasLil! :)

Dolce171
10-28-2008, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by housemaid25
Why would someone be calling her cell phone from the house phone if she was at home? I mean, if GA or CA needed to talk to her why didn't they just knock on the bedroom door, that would make sense to me, but 99% of the stuff these people do doesn't make sense to me. Makes me wonder if she was really at home or just somewhere close by.

I have called my cell from my home phone many times cause I couldn't find the darn thing! Just a thought...

I also remember when my babies were small they loved to play with my cell phone. Perhaps...Lil Miss Caylee had been playing with the phone and misplaced it by accident. Casey then called her cell from the house line to locate it. :)

Dolce171
10-28-2008, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Pink Panther
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???

2:52 p.m. Jesse Calls Casey - 11.2 min
4:21 p.m. Casey Calls Jesse - 1.3 min

In Jesse's statement give July 23rd he stated the call was 12 min. and he possibly heard Caylee in the background. He stated Casey called him though. Casey was talking about her mom no longer moving out. She had to find a place to live and her parents were getting a divorce.

If this is the case and in fact true that Jesse heard precious Caylee in the background during their 2:52pm convo ...... Casey murdered Caylee sometime between 3pm and 4:18pm/4:21pm when she headed towards Tony's.

momtective
10-28-2008, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by Pink Panther
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???



If this is the case and in fact true that Jesse heard precious Caylee in the background during their 2:52pm convo ...... Casey murdered Caylee sometime between 3pm and 4:18pm/4:21pm when she headed towards Tony's.

That's what I think. The call where Jesse said he heard Caylee in the background. Could Caylee have been drinking the chloroform Casey had mixed? I think I remember Jesse saying he heard Casey tell Caylee to "get down from the table, don't touch that Caylee, that's mommies." Someting like that.

Georgia PI
10-28-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Pink Panther
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???



If this is the case and in fact true that Jesse heard precious Caylee in the background during their 2:52pm convo ...... Casey murdered Caylee sometime between 3pm and 4:18pm/4:21pm when she headed towards Tony's.

He could not say that he was 100% sure it was Caylee in the background.

DotsEyes
10-29-2008, 12:36 AM
I looked very carefully at the map and the area of Ping 19 is interesting. When I focus on the spot, am I looking at the site of the tower or the actual location of KC at the time?

Thanks.

JWG
10-29-2008, 08:53 AM
DotsEyes, you are looking at the cell tower, not KC's actual location.

Dolce171
10-29-2008, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by Dolce171
Originally Posted by Pink Panther
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???

If this is the case and in fact true that Jesse heard precious Caylee in the background during their 2:52pm convo ...... Casey murdered Caylee sometime between 3pm and 4:18pm/4:21pm when she headed towards Tony's.

He could not say that he was 100% sure it was Caylee in the background.

Yes, I have thought of this too. He also was not clear as to who called who IIRC. My only other thought was that Casey could have possibly put the cloth with chloroform over Caylee's mouth as she was napping or given her something just prior to her nap time. Just a thought .....

Georgia PI
10-29-2008, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Dolce171
Originally Posted by Pink Panther
Looking over the timeline calendar that was released with the second document dump, LE wrote a note on June 16th stating that Jesse has a 16 min. conversation with KC and that he possibly hears Caylee in the backround during this call. Does this call show up in the logs and if it does, at what time???

If this is the case and in fact true that Jesse heard precious Caylee in the background during their 2:52pm convo ...... Casey murdered Caylee sometime between 3pm and 4:18pm/4:21pm when she headed towards Tony's.



Yes, I have thought of this too. He also was not clear as to who called who IIRC. My only other thought was that Casey could have possibly put the cloth with chloroform over Caylee's mouth as she was napping or given her something just prior to her nap time. Just a thought .....

If you look at post #26 and #27 in this thread, that might answer your questions.

DotsEyes
10-29-2008, 04:17 PM
JWG thanks for the clarification.

suspicious mind
10-30-2008, 01:26 AM
If the Anthony's are calling kc that early, she obviously wasn't at home. if she were at lee's would that jive with the pings? It's always been obvious that everything ca said at the bond hearing was a lie, especially the part about the morning of the 16th. Basically everything that family has said about the 16th's events has been a lie, imo. what if she spent the night at lee's, told lee she left Caylee w/nanny, and Caylee was already in her trunk. I think the flurry of calls was her going back to the house for the 1st time since the previous evening and trying to establish everyone's whereabouts to avoid confrontation.

worriedmom
10-30-2008, 02:00 PM
A few curious things jump out at me.

It looks like Casey had three lengthy chats, with Amy, Jesse and Tony. Was she complaining about the fight?

Why does George call Casey at about 3:00 from his cell?

Have we ever confirmed who she was calling at the Lexus dealer for the first time that afternoon? Any why does she continue to call that person for several days in a row after that, at around the same time?

TexasLil
10-30-2008, 02:31 PM
A few curious things jump out at me.

It looks like Casey had three lengthy chats, with Amy, Jesse and Tony. Was she complaining about the fight?

Why does George call Casey at about 3:00 from his cell?

Have we ever confirmed who she was calling at the Lexus dealer for the first time that afternoon? Any why does she continue to call that person for several days in a row after that, at around the same time?

The call from George to Casey is very interesting. It has been speculated but not confirmed by any written document that I've seen, that George was working as a security guard at the Lexus dealership. It's also speculation that Casey would call to be sure he was at work and not home so she could safely go to the house and avoid her parents.

It's also very strange that, out of a month of call records there are only 4 total communications with George on his cell phone.. he called Casey twice and she called him twice.

Pink Panther
10-30-2008, 02:36 PM
The call from George to Casey is very interesting. It has been speculated but not confirmed by any written document that I've seen, that George was working as a security guard at the Lexus dealership. It's also speculation that Casey would call to be sure he was at work and not home so she could safely go to the house and avoid her parents.

It's also very strange that, out of a month of call records there are only 4 total communications with George on his cell phone.. he called Casey twice and she called him twice.
Texas - Can you please list the times/dates of these four calls!? :)

TexasLil
10-30-2008, 02:44 PM
Texas - Can you please list the times/dates of these four calls!? :)

Absolutely Panther:

From George to Casey:
6/16/08 3:04 PM 0.4 min Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
7/8/08 9:05 AM 5.5 min Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt

From Casey to George:
6/18/08 12:36 PM 0 min No Long/Lat Association
6/18/08 12:36 PM .1 min Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L

aqua_mom
10-30-2008, 02:57 PM
Ping 23 4:25 pm - 4:53 pm (Tower by Amscot)
Ping 24 5:57 pm - 6:32 pm (New Tower on Goldenrod by AL home)

So there is a lapse from 4:53 to 5:56 pm from the previous ping which could possibly mean that she was at the same location for approximately 1.5 hours. Is this the time she supposedly was seen at Scoops on 50 and Alfaya? Seems kinda far to be pinging all the way from there.

Do we know of anyone who might live in that area or other possible business she was visiting if not at Scoops?

SusieClue
10-30-2008, 04:58 PM
Here's what I notice... Ping 23 at 4:25 - 4:53 on East Colonial very near to a self storage unit *10280 E. Colonial (maybe scouting out a place to hold her temporarily?) Then Ping 27 Blockbuster at 8:00 - then NOT back to Tony's to watch movies - I think the Blockbuster was an alibi for them - then Ping 28 East Colonial, again close to the same self storage unit. By now it was dark 9:04 - 11:17 p.m. - perhaps dark enough to transfer her body into a storage unit until they had time to devise a plan.

Pink Panther
10-31-2008, 11:51 AM
Does anyone have a complete list of calls/texts and times for this day??? If so, could you please post it!

JWG
11-01-2008, 01:02 PM
Weather records from Orlando Airport: Dry until at least 3:23 PM. Rain reported at 3:48 PM, turns heavy at 3:53 PM, then becomes light at 4:03 PM. Last reported rain at 4:53 PM. Reported dry and clear at 5:53 PM.

June 16 Weather (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KORL/2008/6/16/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA)

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 04:47 PM
JBean, please let us have this "working" thread, at least for a little while, to determine exactly what Casey did and where she was on the day Caylee disappeared.

What we know so far:

8:46 AM Casey calls Tony

11:47 AM Tony calls Casey

12:50pm - Casey left the Anthony house with Caylee to 'go to work.' She was dressed in her work clothes, including the gray pin-stripped pants. Casey tells George she will be spending the night at Zanny's house, with Caylee.

12:53pm - Casey calls Tony

12:55pm - Tony calls Casey

1:00pm - Casey calls Tony and talks for 14 minutes - ping near Anthony home

1:06pm - Amy and Casey text about Amy's wrecked car.

1:26pm - Casey texts Jesse

1:37pm - Jesse texts Casey

1:44pm - Casey calls Amy and talks for 36 minutes - ping near Anthony home

2:30 - estimated - George left for work

2:52 - Jesse calls Casey and talks for 12 minutes. He hears Caylee in background. Pings indicate Casey is at the Anthony home.

3:04pm - Call from George - 25 seconds

3:35pm - Call to Tony - 22 seconds

4:10pm - Call to George at work - 34 seconds

4:11 to 4:13 - Casey attempts to phone Cindy four times.

4:14 - Call to George - 98 seconds

4:18 - Cell phone pings show she departed from the A's or that area and is near Chickasaw - up until this time all pings were at towers near the Anthony home

4:18 - text from Tony

4:19 - One minute call to Tony.

4:21 - Two calls to Jesse. Second call 75 seconds.

4:25 - Another attempt to call Cindy

5:20 - tower pinged near Blanchard Park- ignore this entry, this actually happened on the 17th, and then Casey's phone went silent from 5:23 until 8:23pm.

5:30 - estimated - Cindy returns home from work. Casey and Caylee are not there.

6:31 - call to Cindy

6:32 - call to Cindy

6:32 - call home

7:06 - call home

7:20 - call to Amy

7:21 - call to Amy 42 seconds

7:50 - video shows Casey, wearing jean shorts, at Blockbuster with Tony. Caylee is not there.

8:03 - checks voice mail

10:45 - Text from Amy

11:17 - Text from MH (who is MH?)

Let's fill in the gaps.

Pondering Mind
11-03-2008, 04:51 PM
JBean, please let us have this "working" thread, at least for a little while, to determine exactly what Casey did and where she was on the day Caylee disappeared.

What we know so far:

12:50pm - Casey left the Anthony house with Caylee to 'go to work.' She was dressed in her work clothes, including the gray pin-stripped pants.

2:30 - estimated - George left for work

2:52 - Jesse calls Casey and talks for 12 minutes. He hears Caylee in background. Pings indicate Casey is at the Anthony home.

4:18 - Cell phone pings show she departed from the A's or that area

5:00 - estimated - Cindy returns home from work. Casey and Caylee are not there.

7:50 - video shows Casey, wearing jean shorts, at Blockbuster with Tony. Caylee is not there.

Let's fill in the gaps.

Casey must have come back home right after George went to work.

Themis
11-03-2008, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR0004 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2896373#post2896373)
Well, we know that she was trying desperately to reach her parent around 4, right?

Yes. 4:00 p.m. June 16 plus 2.6 days is June 19, 6:14 a.m.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 04:53 PM
Chilly, IIRC Cindy said that she would be driving home around 5:30 and that is when she would talk/hear/get text from Casey, there was certain days that she would take turns going in early.I think it was on Mondays.

RR0004
11-03-2008, 04:55 PM
http://www.local6.com/news/17874799/detail.html

There's a gap between 4:30 and 6.

And from about 3 till 4

jnTexas
11-03-2008, 04:55 PM
i heard something about KC having a hide out in grade school that is close to home. anyone think maybe she was hiding out there wiating on George to leave?

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 04:58 PM
Looks like she had Tony's jeep in the calendar thread 17,18,19 and was with Chris for some of this time.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 04:58 PM
Chilly, IIRC Cindy said that she would be driving home around 5:30 and that is when she would talk/hear/get text from Casey, there was certain days that she would take turns going in early.I think it was on Mondays.

Thanks - I'll change that

impatientredhead
11-03-2008, 04:59 PM
So they leave the house close to 2pm, stay close enough that the cell tower doesn't change... this must be when the baby doll and backpack are loaded into the car, BUT they don't come back out when they get back to the house. Why?

Themis
11-03-2008, 05:00 PM
:eek: I didn't know the movie they rented at Blockbuster had scenes of a rotting body in a car trunk!:eek:

AutomaticAuttie
11-03-2008, 05:01 PM
Maybe TonE's jeep should be tested for decomp?

Themis
11-03-2008, 05:02 PM
So they leave the house close to 2pm, stay close enough that the cell tower doesn't change... this must be when the baby doll and backpack are loaded into the car, BUT they don't come back out when they get back to the house. Why?
Don't forget the KC only took clothes and personal care items for herself that day and nothing of the kind for Caylee. Caylee only got the backpack and the dressed "Mama" doll.

Janis396
11-03-2008, 05:03 PM
i heard something about KC having a hide out in grade school that is close to home. anyone think maybe she was hiding out there wiating on George to leave?

In Lee's interview, he said Casey told him she'd sit out in her car near the house and "stake it out" to see when her parents came and went.

Pondering Mind
11-03-2008, 05:03 PM
Maybe TonE's jeep should be tested for decomp?

I wonder if it already has and we just don't know about it.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:03 PM
Maybe TonE's jeep should be tested for decomp?

When he was posting on the SM siteTony said it was tested.

Themis
11-03-2008, 05:04 PM
Chilly, IIRC Cindy said that she would be driving home around 5:30 and that is when she would talk/hear/get text from Casey, there was certain days that she would take turns going in early.I think it was on Mondays.
June 16, 2008 is a Monday.

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 05:06 PM
At 1:06pm is when Casey and Amy texted about Amy's wrecked car Casey texted "call me when your on your way over to the car. And Amy texted I'm on the way.

Themis
11-03-2008, 05:06 PM
5:20 tower ping near Blanchard Park.

AutomaticAuttie
11-03-2008, 05:06 PM
Does anyone know if she is at Lee's does it ping off the same tower from her parents house?

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 05:08 PM
June 16, 2008 is a Monday.

Not sure if it was every Monday or every other Monday or once a Month LOL

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:09 PM
At 1:06pm is when Casey and Amy texted about Amy's wrecked car Casey texted "call me when your on your way over to the car. And Amy texted I'm on the way.

Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 05:10 PM
Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

It's in the calendar thread?

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 05:11 PM
Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

I don't have one either Chilly and after being here I don't want one.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:12 PM
I don't have one either Chilly and after being here I don't want one.

LOL...me either.

RR0004
11-03-2008, 05:13 PM
Could something have happened at the house when Casey went back?

Themis
11-03-2008, 05:13 PM
http://www.local6.com/news/17874799/detail.html

There's a gap between 4:30 and 6.

And from about 3 till 4

D'ya feel like you're looking at the time of death between 3:04 p.m. and 4:11 p.m.? A 67 minute gap between the time when the call to JG ends and KC tried to call CA.


Then there is a 4:11 call from KC to CA. She leaves the house at 4:18 and goes to Blanchard Park at 5:20. At 5:23 KC's phone is silent. Then, on to AL's house. 7:50 at BlockBuster and 8:23 KCs phone is on again at AL's house.

Pondering Mind
11-03-2008, 05:16 PM
Does anyone know if she is at Lee's does it ping off the same tower from her parents house?

I believe so.

RR0004
11-03-2008, 05:16 PM
D'ya feel like you're looking at the time of death between 3:04 p.m. and 4:11 p.m.? A 67 minute gap.


Then there is a 4:11 call from KC to CA. She leaves the house at 4:18 and goes to Blanchard Park at 5:20. At 5:23 KC's phone is silent. Then, on to AL's house. 7:50 at BlockBuster and 8:23 KCs phone is on again at AL's house.
Is it confirmed that was the date JG said he heard Caylee? I've never seen it 100% confirmed (?)

Patty G
11-03-2008, 05:16 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-16&c=4K

C's Cell Pings 6/16/2008
Calendar: Caylee Anthony Case
QuietStorm

06-16-2008
*The times shown may change, depending on DST settings
12:20 am - cell tower pings near Anthony home until . . .
4:18 pm - cell tower pings near Chickasaw Trail until . . .
4:25 pm - cell tower pings near AL's apt until after midnight into the next day

8:46 AM calls AL
11:47 AM AL calls
12:53 PM calls AL
12:55 PM AL calls
1:00 PM AL calls 829 seconds
1:26 PM texts JG
1:37 PM text from JG
1:44 PM calls AH 2164 seconds
2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds
3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds
3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds
4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds
4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)
4:19 PM text from AL
4:19 PM calls AL
4:21 PM calls JG twice; second call 75 seconds
4:25 PM calls CA 3 seconds (now pinging near AL's apt)
6:31 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls home
7:06 PM calls home
7:20 PM calls AH
7:21 PM calls AH 42 seconds
8:03 PM calls Voice Mail
8:03 PM text from MH
10:45 PM text from AH
11:17 PM text from MH

Time gaps maybe worth noting while at the Anythony home were from 8:46 AM to 11:43 AM (eating/dressing perhaps) and from 1:44 to 2:52 pm

June 16th-the girls and the "backpacks" (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70700&page=7)

Ping Map For June 16th (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73218)

MOMto5
11-03-2008, 05:18 PM
Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

Yes, you can text while on a call. My kids in college rudely do this during our phone conversations :) .

Pondering Mind
11-03-2008, 05:18 PM
Is it true that a cell phone will still ping unless the battery is removed?

steelergirl
11-03-2008, 05:19 PM
hi there! just to answer your question...yes you can text while on the phone...I have a friend that does it all the time!! :crazy:

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:25 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-16&c=4K

C's Cell Pings 6/16/2008
Calendar: Caylee Anthony Case
QuietStorm

06-16-2008
*The times shown may change, depending on DST settings
12:20 am - cell tower pings near Anthony home until . . .
4:18 pm - cell tower pings near Chickasaw Trail until . . .
4:25 pm - cell tower pings near AL's apt until after midnight into the next day

8:46 AM calls AL
11:47 AM AL calls
12:53 PM calls AL
12:55 PM AL calls
1:00 PM AL calls 829 seconds
1:26 PM texts JG
1:37 PM text from JG
1:44 PM calls AH 2164 seconds
2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds
3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds
3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds
4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds
4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)
4:19 PM text from AL
4:19 PM calls AL
4:21 PM calls JG twice; second call 75 seconds
4:25 PM calls CA 3 seconds (now pinging near AL's apt)
6:31 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls home
7:06 PM calls home
7:20 PM calls AH
7:21 PM calls AH 42 seconds
8:03 PM calls Voice Mail
8:03 PM text from MH
10:45 PM text from AH
11:17 PM text from MH

Time gaps maybe worth noting while at the Anythony home were from 8:46 AM to 11:43 AM (eating/dressing perhaps) and from 1:44 to 2:52 pm

June 16th-the girls and the "backpacks" (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70700&page=7)

Ping Map For June 16th (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73218)

Thanks, I'm adding these in. It will take a while.

Patty G
11-03-2008, 05:25 PM
JBean posted the following:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2854267&postcount=162

Caylee Time Line Calendar-Key Date Discussion (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71759)

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 05:26 PM
There's a gap between 3:04 3:35 and 3:35 4:10 31 minutes and 35 minutes the call at 3:35 is to AL for 22 seconds and then she's all over the phone again.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:31 PM
JBean posted the following:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2854267&postcount=162

Caylee Time Line Calendar-Key Date Discussion (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71759)

oops, didn't see that. I'm hoping she'll let us keep this thread for a while, so that everyone will notice it and contribute, and then merge it when we're done. We'll see.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:43 PM
5:20 tower ping near Blanchard Park.
5:23 KC's cell goes silent.

The article RR004 linked says the phone is silent from 5:23 to 8:23, but as we can see, she was making lots of phone calls. :waitasec: I'm going to remove that information from the timeline for now.

TimeWillTell
11-03-2008, 05:43 PM
:confused: Weird how GA calls out of the blue at 3:05 and the call is only 25 seconds?

Also I'm now kinda wondering if all the phone calls to CA weren't trying to get her to babysit that night so that her and TL could have cuddle up movie night alone. It just made me think back to the fired cops texts back and forth with KC and how she was desperatly trying to get a babysitter. Just thinking out loud folks!:) Just when I think I have it all figured out another theory jumps into my mind :crazy:

eg@gm
11-03-2008, 05:47 PM
Casey was probably sleeping when her phone had down-time. Maybe something happened to Caylee while she was napping.

George may have called for those 25 seconds just returning her call.

Her parents probably didn't answer the phone b/c they knew she was just calling for a babysitter.

AZlawyer
11-03-2008, 05:49 PM
All I see in JG's statement about the conversation on the 16th is that it was "not unnormal" to hear Caylee in the background "whenever" he talked to KC on the phone. He didn't seem to have any particular memory of hearing her that day. The thing he was really sure about was that he heard her on the 24th--but that's the one he backed off from later.

I think we should keep this in mind. If JG didn't hear Caylee on the 16th, she might have been dead before KC even returned to the house. Let's say they left the house 12:50 as GA says, and he didn't go to work until 2:30. KC wouldn't feel comfortable going back without leaving at least a little "cushion" of time to make sure GA was really gone. So did she really sit in the car around the corner for 2 hours before going back to the house? If so, did she run the A/C the whole time? Or maybe she parked somewhere, Caylee was napping in the car seat, KC wanted to talk to friends on the phone and didn't want to wake her up (because that would trigger annoying mommy duties), so KC got out of the car, leaving Caylee in the car seat in the heat...then discovers a little after 3 pm when she gets off the phone with JG that Caylee is unresponsive. KC rushes back to the house to see if she can revive her (but doesn't take Caylee's doll in with her given the circumstances), calls mommy the nurse when she can't wake Caylee up...but at some point realizes Caylee is too far gone and it is really HER FAULT so she will be in trouble with parents, police, etc., PLUS everyone will know she has no job...and since Caylee is dead anyway the best thing to do is cover it up.

What do you guys think? If I knew for sure there was a chloroform search pre-6/16, I might revise this theory to something more premeditated, though.

frenchvixen
11-03-2008, 05:50 PM
Could something have happened at the house when Casey went back?


If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

TimeWillTell
11-03-2008, 05:51 PM
Casey was probably sleeping when her phone had down-time. Maybe something happened to Caylee while she was napping.

George may have called for those 25 seconds just returning her call.
Her parents probably didn't answer the phone b/c they knew she was just calling for a babysitter.


Oh, I didn't see a call to GA before that on that day.

impatientredhead
11-03-2008, 05:53 PM
If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

It probably didn't take all that long, and we have seen how she was doing at Blockbuster that night. This was not a traumatic event for Casey, as frightening as that is.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 05:56 PM
If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

That's what really jumps out at me. There was no lengthy phone call where Casey might have been ignoring Caylee or long period of time when she might have been napping. Casey was a busy little beaver the entire time, and at some point took out a few minutes, apparently between 3pm and around 4pm, to kill her daughter.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 05:56 PM
If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

I hate to say this but the possible method that we have been discussing wouldn't take very long to carry out.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 05:58 PM
:confused: Weird how GA calls out of the blue at 3:05 and the call is only 25 seconds?

Also I'm now kinda wondering if all the phone calls to CA weren't trying to get her to babysit that night so that her and TL could have cuddle up movie night alone. It just made me think back to the fired cops texts back and forth with KC and how she was desperatly trying to get a babysitter. Just thinking out loud folks!:) Just when I think I have it all figured out another theory jumps into my mind :crazy:

Also weird that he doesn't mention it.

Themis
11-03-2008, 05:59 PM
All I see in JG's statement about the conversation on the 16th is that it was "not unnormal" to hear Caylee in the background "whenever" he talked to KC on the phone. He didn't seem to have any particular memory of hearing her that day. The thing he was really sure about was that he heard her on the 24th--but that's the one he backed off from later.

I think we should keep this in mind. If JG didn't hear Caylee on the 16th, she might have been dead before KC even returned to the house. Let's say they left the house 12:50 as GA says, and he didn't go to work until 2:30. KC wouldn't feel comfortable going back without leaving at least a little "cushion" of time to make sure GA was really gone. So did she really sit in the car around the corner for 2 hours before going back to the house? If so, did she run the A/C the whole time? Or maybe she parked somewhere, Caylee was napping in the car seat, KC wanted to talk to friends on the phone and didn't want to wake her up (because that would trigger annoying mommy duties), so KC got out of the car, leaving Caylee in the car seat in the heat...then discovers a little after 3 pm when she gets off the phone with JG that Caylee is unresponsive. KC rushes back to the house to see if she can revive her (but doesn't take Caylee's doll in with her given the circumstances), calls mommy the nurse when she can't wake Caylee up...but at some point realizes Caylee is too far gone and it is really HER FAULT so she will be in trouble with parents, police, etc., PLUS everyone will know she has no job...and since Caylee is dead anyway the best thing to do is cover it up.

What do you guys think? If I knew for sure there was a chloroform search pre-6/16, I might revise this theory to something more premeditated, though.

Okay, I was taking the other posters info as fact. IF JG is just relating it was common to hear Caylee in the background, and can't recall from his memory a specific memory for June 16, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. phone call for 12 minutes, then it is a generalized description. I also felt George's description was a generalized description of a "normal day" and he was treating June 16, 2008 as a "normal day." But, if neither of them can bring to mind a first person specific memory of that particular day, June 16, 2008 (as opposed to normal day routines) then it is possible no one has seen Caylee since late night on June 15, 2008. During that time period, KC would have been smarting from the emotional and physical fight that had broken out between CA and KC. CA apparently tried to choke KC -- fingers around KC's neck and the whole bit. What followed for KC was probably rage. Caylee may have been the subject of this rage on the night of June15th. This, of course assumes GA and JG are describing what they usually saw on a typical day and not what they actually recall seeing on June 16, 2008. In the rage a person with anti-social personality disorder might have killed the 2 year old.

frenchvixen
11-03-2008, 06:01 PM
I hate to say this but the possible method that we have been discussing wouldn't take very long to carry out.

Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own ass and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Also weird that he doesn't mention it.

Not really, it would be very difficult, after a month, to remember a 25 second phone call to someone you call regularly.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:04 PM
Not really, it would be very difficult, after a month, to remember a 25 second phone call to someone you call regularly.
He doesn't call her regularly. In fact, in the entire period between June 15th and July 15th, I think there are only 3 calls between them where they are on the phone long enough for conversation.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:05 PM
This is what Jesse responds when asked if he heard Caylee in the background during that call:

It was not, yeah (affirmative), it was not unnormal to hear Caylee in the background.....


The (affirmative) is written just that way in the transcript. I believe LE is taking the 'yeah' as his answer.

tiredofthis
11-03-2008, 06:06 PM
Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own ass and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

Murder Caylee. Lay the body in the back yard. Move it from place to place. Decide not to bury it. Dump it in the trunk. Done.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:07 PM
Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own ass and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.


Sociopaths don't plan ahead. They live in the moment to moment. When Caylee died, KC threw her straight into the trunk. Later put her in the backyard. Dogs alerted on both the backyard and the trunk.
Why did the As move a huge hibiscus bush in July, which would not be the optimum time for moving a delicate flowering bush. Should have moved the bush in February or March. KC backed the car in on Wednesday, the 18th.
LE should dig up that hibiscus bush.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:07 PM
He doesn't call her regularly. In fact, in the entire period between June 15th and July 15th, I think there are only 3 calls between them where they are on the phone long enough for conversation.

I still don't think it's strange that he didn't mention it - if he didn't. That day was nothing out of the ordinary at the time, why recall a 25 second phone call or that it was made on that specific day?

impatientredhead
11-03-2008, 06:08 PM
Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own ass and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

There is a 35 minute window before the flurry of calls. It would take less than 5 minutes to smother her. I think she put her in the playhouse, even if she spent 10 minutes moving her around, it doesn't take much time. Being on the phone right afterwards is in keeping with everything we have seen from her.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:08 PM
Sociopaths don't plan ahead. They live in the moment to moment. When Caylee died, KC threw her straight into the trunk. Later put her in the backyard. Dogs alerted on both the backyard and the trunk.
Why did the As move a huge hibiscus bush in July, which would not be the optimum time for moving a delicate flowering bush. Should have moved the bush in February or March.

I'm thinking Casey put her in the backyard first, she may have even killed her in the backyard, and then she put her into the trunk. I don't think moving the hibiscus bush has anything to do with anything.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:09 PM
I still don't think it's strange that he didn't mention it - if he didn't. That day was nothing out of the ordinary at the time, why recall a 25 second phone call or that it was made on that specific day?
The same reason he would remember every little detail of what both of them were wearing.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:11 PM
There is a 35 minute window before the flurry of calls. It would take less than 5 minutes to smother her. I think she put her in the playhouse, even if she spent 10 minutes moving her around, it doesn't take much time. Being on the phone right afterwards is in keeping with everything we have seen from her.

I think she lay her down next to the pool. Then moved her into the corner behind the playhouse, removed the lid to the sandbox and put her in the sandbox, replaced the lid.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:12 PM
The same reason he would remember every little detail of what both of them were wearing.
Well, we don't know if he mentioned the phone call or not, or if he even reached Casey. Maybe he left a voice message - would that show up as phone call? 25 seconds would be an incredibly short phone call, especially if it was, as you seem to suspect, part of a murder cover-up.

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 06:13 PM
I doubt that Cindy spent much time in the back yard with no one around. George at work no Casey no Caylee.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:13 PM
The article RR004 linked says the phone is silent from 5:23 to 8:23, but as we can see, she was making lots of phone calls. :waitasec: I'm going to remove that information from the timeline for now.
I'll remove it too. Misinformation.

faefrost
11-03-2008, 06:13 PM
Sociopaths don't plan ahead. They live in the moment to moment. When Caylee died, KC threw her straight into the trunk. Later put her in the backyard. Dogs alerted on both the backyard and the trunk.
Why did the As move a huge hibiscus bush in July, which would not be the optimum time for moving a delicate flowering bush. Should have moved the bush in February or March. KC backed the car in on Wednesday, the 18th.
LE should dig up that hibiscus bush.

Yes and no. They will not make meticulous plans about each step for several weeks. But they may decide to do something and determine the straightest path to it. The crime itself would not be so much a sudden act of emotion. Rather the Sociopath would make a decision, then simply work out how to get there and how to deal with it as they go along. There really is no rage or emotion involved. They make the decision to act (premeditation) then simply take each step one at a time to get there, and not really thinking beyond the imediate problem.

(at least thats how my old college roomate, now a forensic psychiatrist once explained it to me. If I remember it correctly.)

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:14 PM
Well, we don't know if he mentioned the phone call or not, or if he even reached Casey. Maybe he left a voice message - would that show up as phone call? 25 seconds would be an incredibly short phone call, especially if it was, as you seem to suspect, part of a murder cover-up.

No. I didn't say I suspected anything of the sort. I simply pointed out that he doesn't seem to have mentioned that call.

CitizenKim
11-03-2008, 06:16 PM
All I see in JG's statement about the conversation on the 16th is that it was "not unnormal" to hear Caylee in the background "whenever" he talked to KC on the phone. He didn't seem to have any particular memory of hearing her that day. The thing he was really sure about was that he heard her on the 24th--but that's the one he backed off from later.

I think we should keep this in mind. If JG didn't hear Caylee on the 16th, she might have been dead before KC even returned to the house. Let's say they left the house 12:50 as GA says, and he didn't go to work until 2:30. KC wouldn't feel comfortable going back without leaving at least a little "cushion" of time to make sure GA was really gone. So did she really sit in the car around the corner for 2 hours before going back to the house? If so, did she run the A/C the whole time? Or maybe she parked somewhere, Caylee was napping in the car seat, KC wanted to talk to friends on the phone and didn't want to wake her up (because that would trigger annoying mommy duties), so KC got out of the car, leaving Caylee in the car seat in the heat...then discovers a little after 3 pm when she gets off the phone with JG that Caylee is unresponsive. KC rushes back to the house to see if she can revive her (but doesn't take Caylee's doll in with her given the circumstances), calls mommy the nurse when she can't wake Caylee up...but at some point realizes Caylee is too far gone and it is really HER FAULT so she will be in trouble with parents, police, etc., PLUS everyone will know she has no job...and since Caylee is dead anyway the best thing to do is cover it up.

What do you guys think? If I knew for sure there was a chloroform search pre-6/16, I might revise this theory to something more premeditated, though.

I think this makes a lot of sense. I wonder where her "hideout" was? I didn't realize that w/the heat kids could die in as little as 50 mins - I just found an article where that very thing happened. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-08-06-hyperthermia-in-cars_N.htm

That baby didn't die immediately but was in serious distress. I wonder if Caylee was in heat stroke but barely alive when Casey came home and put the ladder back on the pool- trying to cool her down? Flurry of phone calls when this didn't work? Then Caylee didn't make it and Casey left her by the pool while she freaked out? :mad::furious: There's the ladder explained as well as the cadaver hits in the bkyd.

athy
11-03-2008, 06:16 PM
Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

nope i don't have one either and don't want one. figure if i'm away from the house i don't want to be called. don't want a leash

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:16 PM
:confused: Weird how GA calls out of the blue at 3:05 and the call is only 25 seconds?

Also I'm now kinda wondering if all the phone calls to CA weren't trying to get her to babysit that night so that her and TL could have cuddle up movie night alone. It just made me think back to the fired cops texts back and forth with KC and how she was desperatly trying to get a babysitter. Just thinking out loud folks!:) Just when I think I have it all figured out another theory jumps into my mind :crazy:

The problem I have with the 'trying to find a babysitter' idea is that Casey had already told George and, according to his interview, also Cindy, that she would be working and then spending the night at Zanny's with Caylee. When she left the house at 12:50, she already had plans and they did not include needing a sitter.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:16 PM
If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.


Legally, the term premeditation means something very different than what you are thinking in your post. Legally, premeditation can happen in an instant. It is not a careful planning of every detail of a murder including a choice of weapon, time, place and disposal of the body. Premeditation is intending to do the act that results injures the other person whether or not death is the intended result.

tiredofthis
11-03-2008, 06:17 PM
I think this makes a lot of sense. I wonder where her "hideout" was? I didn't realize that w/the heat kids could die in as little as 50 mins - I just found an article where that very thing happened. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-08-06-hyperthermia-in-cars_N.htm

That baby didn't die immediately but was in serious distress. I wonder if Caylee was in heat stroke but barely alive when Casey came home and put the ladder back on the pool- trying to cool her down? Then Caylee didn't make it and Casey left her by the pool while she freaked out? :mad::furious:

Makes a lot of sense.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:18 PM
Yes and no. They will not make meticulous plans about each step for several weeks. But they may decide to do something and determine the straightest path to it. The crime itself would not be so much a sudden act of emotion. Rather the Sociopath would make a decision, then simply work out how to get there and how to deal with it as they go along. There really is no rage or emotion involved. They make the decision to act (premeditation) then simply take each step one at a time to get there, and not really thinking beyond the imediate problem.

(at least thats how my old college roomate, now a forensic psychiatrist once explained it to me. If I remember it correctly.)
But, IIRC, the one emotion ASPDs do feel is anger and rage is an extreme of anger. So, could they not kill in a rage?

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:18 PM
I think this makes a lot of sense. I wonder where her "hideout" was? I didn't realize that w/the heat kids could die in as little as 50 mins - I just found an article where that very thing happened. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-08-06-hyperthermia-in-cars_N.htm

That baby didn't die immediately but was in serious distress. I wonder if Caylee was in heat stroke but barely alive when Casey came home and put the ladder back on the pool- trying to cool her down? Then Caylee didn't make it and Casey left her by the pool while she freaked out? :mad::furious:

That makes sense, that Casey would put Caylee into the pool hoping to cool her off, but how would Caylee have gotten so overheated? Between 12:50 and 2:30, she and Casey were apparently together - where was Casey if Caylee was left in the closed car alone during that time?

impatientredhead
11-03-2008, 06:19 PM
I think this makes a lot of sense. I wonder where her "hideout" was? I didn't realize that w/the heat kids could die in as little as 50 mins - I just found an article where that very thing happened. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-08-06-hyperthermia-in-cars_N.htm

That baby didn't die immediately but was in serious distress. I wonder if Caylee was in heat stroke but barely alive when Casey came home and put the ladder back on the pool- trying to cool her down? Then Caylee didn't make it and Casey left her by the pool while she freaked out? :mad::furious:


That doesn't explain the chloroform search and the chloroform in the trunk though?

Casey is such a liar I would *think* that if it was an accident she would have attempted to explain it away. If she really thought this ZFG story was going to fly, I cannot imagine that she couldn't come up with a reason Caylee dying of heat exhaustion or drowning was someone else's fault. Much better odds of handling it that way than this way. I think it was premediated.

frenchvixen
11-03-2008, 06:21 PM
Sociopaths don't plan ahead. They live in the moment to moment. When Caylee died, KC threw her straight into the trunk. Later put her in the backyard. Dogs alerted on both the backyard and the trunk.
Why did the As move a huge hibiscus bush in July, which would not be the optimum time for moving a delicate flowering bush. Should have moved the bush in February or March. KC backed the car in on Wednesday, the 18th.
LE should dig up that hibiscus bush.

Then how is it premeditated (if sociopaths live from moment to moment)? I'm going to try to answer my own question. Was she planning on doing this for a while (chloroform searches) but was just waiting for the right time? She didn't necessarily plan it on the 16th but for some reason with her friends' upcoming trip to PR, fight with her mom, getting caught stealing again, not being able to find a babysitter to hangout with TL the "right" moment was on June 16th?

How will they prove her guilty mind (mens rea) then if she doesn't think like other people?

newuser
11-03-2008, 06:24 PM
Ok - I thought from the early days something happened in the back yard, but then I got hung up on all the other info. I do think everyone is making it was too complicated. IF and I mean a big IF you believe GA about seeing them on the 16th, then I think they returned home after he left. KC probably was using the chloroform freely by this time, and laid the baby in the backyard while she did her calling and texting. When she got ready to leave, she couldn't wake her up - never even realizing the child was dead. She momentarily thought about making it look like an accident, thus the flurry of calls. THen, she just left Caylee in the playhouse and went on to TonE and to rent the movie. On the 18th, she thinks about her again, and goes to get her. Loads her in the trunk until the 27th.

Personally, I think she overdosed her on the night of the 15th, and the same scenario plays out, only with no GA. She goes to the house after he leaves, and just leaves Caylee in the playhouse and goes off to do whatever. She thinks Caylee is fine because she's in the A's yard and in her playhouse. Then, she goes back to get her on the 18th after thinking a bit.

This girl just is not all that deep in her though process.

athy
11-03-2008, 06:24 PM
chilling thought, what if caylee was in the trunk after casey used the chloroform on her. and at the time we see her on the security tape at blockbusters...caylee was still in the trunk.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
Then how is it premeditated (if sociopaths live from moment to moment)? I'm going to try to answer my own question. Was she planning on doing this for a while (chloroform searches) but was just waiting for the right time? She didn't necessarily plan it on the 16th but for some reason with her friends' upcoming trip to PR, fight with her mom, getting caught stealing again, not being able to find a babysitter to hangout with TL the "right" moment was on June 16th?

How will they prove her guilty mind (mens rea) then if she doesn't think like other people?

Premeditation can occur in an instant. But, remember, the crime charged involves aggravating factors of the death of a child under 12 years of age for Murder 1st degree. So, premeditation, in the classic sense is perhaps not necessary here since this is an aggravated circumstances Murder 1st degree.

SailorMoon
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
The problem I have with the 'trying to find a babysitter' idea is that Casey had already told George and, according to his interview, also Cindy, that she would be working and then spending the night at Zanny's with Caylee. When she left the house at 12:50, she already had plans and they did not include needing a sitter.

I'm thinking she would try Jesse for a sitter then Amy maybe??

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
chilling thought, what if caylee was in the trunk after casey used the chloroform on her. and at the time we see her on the security tape at blockbusters...caylee was still in the trunk.
I think that is accurate.

Crabcake23
11-03-2008, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR0004 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2896373#post2896373)
Well, we know that she was trying desperately to reach her parent around 4, right?

Yes. 4:00 p.m. June 16 plus 2.6 days is June 19, 6:14 a.m.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

Yep. I'm thinking that she was killed between 3-4pm on the 16th.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:27 PM
George and Cindy spend a lot of time in the yard and in the pool. No way would Casey have risked leaving Caylee's body in the playhouse for 2 or 3 days. When she left the house on the 16th at 4pm, Caylee's body was in the trunk, IMO.

Crabcake23
11-03-2008, 06:27 PM
:eek: I didn't know the movie they rented at blockbuster had scenes of a rotting body in a car trunk!:eek:

really?!?!?!

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:28 PM
I'm thinking Casey put her in the backyard first, she may have even killed her in the backyard, and then she put her into the trunk. I don't think moving the hibiscus bush has anything to do with anything.
Oh, the hibiscus bush doesn't come into it until the period between June 27th and July 16th.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:28 PM
Yep. I'm thinking that she was killed between 3-4pm on the 16th.

I agree.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:29 PM
It rained all week. Both GA and CA were working and Caylee wasn't around. CA has mentioned in interviews that they didn't use the sandbox all that often because it was messy. This is why I think it's possible that she could have left her in the sandbox for a couple of days. I'm not stuck on it. I just think it's possible.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:29 PM
George and Cindy spend a lot of time in the yard and in the pool. No way would Casey have risked leaving Caylee's body in the playhouse for 2 or 3 days. When she left the house on the 16th at 4pm, Caylee's body was in the trunk, IMO. ITA. KC kept close control over that body. "Trust no one."

impatientredhead
11-03-2008, 06:30 PM
George and Cindy spend a lot of time in the yard and in the pool. No way would Casey have risked leaving Caylee's body in the playhouse for 2 or 3 days. When she left the house on the 16th at 4pm, Caylee's body was in the trunk, IMO.

She was back on the 17th and the 18th. I think the 18th is after she has dumped the body. The 17th though, I think she may have been retrieving her. George and Cindy aren't going to be in the playhouse or sandbox while Caylee isn't home. Driving around with a body in the trunk the 17th and 18th is just as risky as leaving her body in the playhouse. JMO

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 06:30 PM
George and Cindy spend a lot of time in the yard and in the pool. No way would Casey have risked leaving Caylee's body in the playhouse for 2 or 3 days. When she left the house on the 16th at 4pm, Caylee's body was in the trunk, IMO.

Chilly this was a week day and George worked nights, they probably cut grass and such on the weekends. Cindy may not have went out back by herself.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:31 PM
Oh, the hibiscus bush doesn't come into it until the period between June 27th and July 16th.

I know. I just don't think moving the bush has anything to do with Caylee's murder. If it were unusual for George and Cindy to do gardening I might think otherwise, but it appears that they were always doing things in the yard.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:31 PM
Yep. I'm thinking that she was killed between 3-4pm on the 16th.
Me too.

Paladine
11-03-2008, 06:32 PM
Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

Nope, youre not alone...me, neither! Had one and gave it up a couple years ago...no privacy, I didn't like being readily available...;)

CitizenKim
11-03-2008, 06:38 PM
That doesn't explain the chloroform search and the chloroform in the trunk though?

Casey is such a liar I would *think* that if it was an accident she would have attempted to explain it away. If she really thought this ZFG story was going to fly, I cannot imagine that she couldn't come up with a reason Caylee dying of heat exhaustion or drowning was someone else's fault. Much better odds of handling it that way than this way. I think it was premediated.

Casey could have been shopping, jogging, just walking around while Caylee was left in car. She might have been pretending to be somewhere else like working (if she was on the phone) and didn't want to risk someone hearing Caylee. She probably didn't want to hear her herself- I think she was mad at Caylee bc Caylee was taking away her golden tkt- Cindy was finally fed up and going for custody. Casey had always been able to use Caylee as her precious pawn to get whatever she wanted- and that was about to end. And Caylee was becoming more verbal- she had worn out her welcome in Casey's eyes.

The chloroform is a wrinkle for me too. Maybe she had been concocting and considering the kidnap story for a while and a chloroform soaked rag left behind was going to be one of her props? Oops, Caylee died so she had to kick it into high gear. If she was considering this sort of plan for a while it might also explain the searches for missing child sites. Or she could have just been interested in the chloroform for sex?

Who knows Casye = head case. :confused:

AZlawyer
11-03-2008, 06:38 PM
That makes sense, that Casey would put Caylee into the pool hoping to cool her off, but how would Caylee have gotten so overheated? Between 12:50 and 2:30, she and Casey were apparently together - where was Casey if Caylee was left in the closed car alone during that time?

Sitting on the back bumper playing with her phone and chatting with friends?

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:39 PM
Anyone know what the weather was on the 16th between 3 and 4? Could Caylee have been bugging Casey about wanting to go in the pool?

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:40 PM
Anybody here think chloroform was the murder weapon?

frenchvixen
11-03-2008, 06:41 PM
I agree.

So, they drove TonE's car to BB? Where did she leave her car with Caylee's body in it?

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:42 PM
So, they drove TonE's car to BB? Where did she leave her car with Caylee's body in it?
Where the guests park their cars at AL's apartment complex -- down the street from AL's apartment?

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:42 PM
Sitting on the back bumper playing with her phone and chatting with friends?

She talked to Amy from 1:44 until 2:15 pm. What was the weather like during that time?

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Anybody here think chloroform was the murder weapon?

I'm beginning to think not.

impatientredhead
11-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Anybody here think chloroform was the murder weapon?


I do. My opinion has been that she was going to chloroform her and stage a drowning and that Caylee died from the chloroform making the drowning set up impossible, therefore the apparant lack of a plan for afterwards and the lack of emotion afterwards.

AZlawyer
11-03-2008, 06:45 PM
Anyone know what the weather was on the 16th between 3 and 4? Could Caylee have been bugging Casey about wanting to go in the pool?

JWG posted this in the June 16 ping map thread:

Weather records from Orlando Airport: Dry until at least 3:23 PM. Rain reported at 3:48 PM, turns heavy at 3:53 PM, then becomes light at 4:03 PM. Last reported rain at 4:53 PM. Reported dry and clear at 5:53 PM.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:45 PM
Anyone know what the weather was on the 16th between 3 and 4? Could Caylee have been bugging Casey about wanting to go in the pool?
JWG posted this on the June 16th Ping Thread:

"Weather records from Orlando Airport: Dry until at least 3:23 PM. Rain reported at 3:48 PM, turns heavy at 3:53 PM, then becomes light at 4:03 PM. Last reported rain at 4:53 PM. Reported dry and clear at 5:53 PM."

Have you guys seen that thread???

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73218

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:46 PM
Anybody here think chloroform was the murder weapon?
I do.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:46 PM
I think this wasn't the first time KC drugged Caylee to put her to sleep. However, she went too far this time and Caylee died. However, merely using chloroform on a 2 year old is enough for 1st degree murder because by its nature it is so incredibly dangerous and harmful to the 2 year old. Gross negligence by a custodial parent resulting in the death of a child under 12 = 1st degree murder.

frenchvixen
11-03-2008, 06:47 PM
Where the guests park their cars at AL's apartment complex -- down the street from AL's apartment?

This is a hard pill for me to swallow. I can't buy that. Themis, does nothing in the scenario seem "off" to you?

As much as KC ran out of gas. How can she take the chance of hiding the body in plain sight in a trunk in someone else's complex?

I know she's a sociopath but she needed to cover her ass and this does not make sense. It's just too reckless.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:48 PM
I think this wasn't the first time KC drugged Caylee to put her to sleep. However, she went too far this time and Caylee died. However, merely using chloroform on a 2 year old is enough for 1st degree murder because by its nature it is so incredibly dangerous and harmful to the 2 year old. Gross negligence by a custodial parent resulting in the death of a child under 12 = 1st degree murder.

When, on the 16th, do you think Casey would have chloroformed Caylee? Before meeting with Tony? Why go back to the Anthony's on the 17th and remove Caylee's body from the trunk?

JBean
11-03-2008, 06:50 PM
Hi Guys there is a whole forum devoted to the individual timeline of each day. The whole idea was so we wouldn't have 5 or 6 threads with the information all spread out. There is a thread for each day in the timeline up in the sticky forum.
So I am going to merge this with the date of June 16th where people ahve been working really hard and filling out the calendar.
So buckle up I am going to move you in a minute :).
The conversation can go on exactly the same as it is now, but up where the work has already been started.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:50 PM
This is a hard pill for me to swallow. I can't buy that. Themis, does nothing in the scenario seem "off" to you?

As much as KC ran out of gas. How can she take the chance of hiding the body in plain sight in a trunk in someone else's complex?

I know she's a sociopath but she needed to cover her ass and this does not make sense. It's just too reckless.

A body in a locked trunk is not 'in plain sight'. When you have a dead body on your hands, you have to put it somewhere.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:51 PM
Hi Guys there is a whole forum devoted to the individual timeline of each day. The whole idea was so we wouldn't have 5 or 6 threads with the information all spread out. There is a thread for each day in the timeline up in the sticky forum.
So I am going to merge this with the date of June 16th where people ahve been working really hard and filling out the calendar.
So buckle up I am going to move you in a minute :).
The conversation can go on exactly the same as it is now, but up where the work has already been started.

Drats.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 06:52 PM
This is a hard pill for me to swallow. I can't buy that. Themis, does nothing in the scenario seem "off" to you?

As much as KC ran out of gas. How can she take the chance of hiding the body in plain sight in a trunk in someone else's complex?

I know she's a sociopath but she needed to cover her ass and this does not make sense. It's just too reckless.

French - The forensics show that she had the body in the trunk at 2.6 days of decomposition. She either:

- left it in the trunk the whole time
- left in the yard and then moved it to the trunk
- left it in a hiding spot and then moved it to the trunk

Any of these scenarios is risky to say the least! :confused:

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 06:53 PM
French - The forensics show that she had the body in the trunk at 2.6 days of decomposition. She either:

- left it in the trunk the whole time
- left in the yard and then moved it to the trunk
- left it in a hiding spot and then moved it to the trunk

Any of these scenarios is risky to say the least! :confused:

Great points, PP.

frenchvixen
11-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Drats.

LOL.. I'm dying to hear the state's take on the timeline (June 16th). I agree with most of it on WS but I think there are pieces that are still missing.

JBean
11-03-2008, 06:54 PM
Drats.why CHilly? I don;t understand, splain it lucy.

Themis
11-03-2008, 06:54 PM
When, on the 16th, do you think Casey would have chloroformed Caylee? Before meeting with Tony? Why go back to the Anthony's on the 17th and remove Caylee's body from the trunk? I don't think it happened on the 16th. I think GA and JG were describing "normal" kinds of calls and clothes observations. I don't think they are recalling that specific event direct from memory, but filling in with what was normal or placing a more normal contact on that day. The mind does things like that to people.
I think it is more likely KC chloroformed Caylee the night of June 15th, intending to keep her asleep for a longer period of time than just a party; and left chloroform in the vehicle. I think KC placed Caylee in the trunk to sleep it off and ... that is where Caylee died. It is possible Caylee woke up for a while while locked in the trunk. Chloroform leaves the patient with a kick-arse headache, nausea and diarrhea. When Caylee woke up, she had those. The "stain" could have been vomit or diarrhea. That's how they know how her body was positioned in the trunk.

CitizenKim
11-03-2008, 06:55 PM
Anyone know what the weather was on the 16th between 3 and 4? Could Caylee have been bugging Casey about wanting to go in the pool?

Here's the weather for this day from the weather underground.
Mean temp: 81
Max temp: 90
Min temp: 73

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KORL/2008/6/16/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

I once saw someone post a site that would calculate how fast the temp would rise and at what level it would become lethal. I'll try to find it. I couldn't find a simple calculation tool but this was a side bar in that article I linked earlier (the temp happens to be right - though it was probably hotter here w/humidity). It also said that children react 3-5 times faster to heat bc their bodies haven't developed proper handling tools yet. :(

Temperature increase inside a car with an outside temperature of 80 degrees (elapsed time in minutes):

After 10 minutes: 99 degrees inside car

20 minutes: 109 degrees

30 minutes 114 degrees

40 minutes: 118 degrees

50 minutes: 120 degrees

60 minutes: 123 degrees

Source: General Motors; Jan Null, San Francisco State University

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 06:57 PM
I don't think it happened on the 16th. I think GA and JG were describing "normal" kinds of calls and clothes observations. I don't think they are recalling that specific event direct from memory, but filling in with what was normal or placing a more normal contact on that day. The mind does things like that to people.
I think it is more likely KC chloroformed Caylee the night of June 15th, intending to keep her asleep for a longer period of time than just a party; and left chloroform in the vehicle. I think KC placed Caylee in the trunk to sleep it off and ... that is where Caylee died. It is possible Caylee woke up for a while while locked in the trunk. Chloroform leaves the patient with a kick-arse headache, nausea and diarrhea. When Caylee woke up, she had those. The "stain" could have been vomit or diarrhea. That's how they know how her body was positioned in the trunk.

I'll go with that.

Paladine
11-03-2008, 07:00 PM
I do. My opinion has been that she was going to chloroform her and stage a drowning and that Caylee died from the chloroform making the drowning set up impossible, therefore the apparant lack of a plan for afterwards and the lack of emotion afterwards.

I, too, agree with the chloroform as means of death. But I think she had nowhere to put her on the 16th, the fight with Cindy over, what I feel to be responsibilities, and she wasn't willing to give up her time with Tony, so she drugged her and threw her in the trunk. I think she's done it before. This time, it went too far.

That's only my humble little opinion...:)

Paladine
11-03-2008, 07:01 PM
A question...when they were at BB, what car did they take? Tonys or Caseys?

chesterp
11-03-2008, 07:14 PM
Anybody here think chloroform was the murder weapon?

I do....
In my dream I smelled something and I could not breath. My breath decreased I thought I was being smothered.........at first I believed it was the chlorine from the pool....initial speculation...but since the chloroform was mentioned...

I can not get this feeling out of my mind it was so strong.

Cerenity2u
11-03-2008, 07:17 PM
JBean, please let us have this "working" thread, at least for a little while, to determine exactly what Casey did and where she was on the day Caylee disappeared.

What we know so far:

8:46 AM Casey calls Tony

11:47 AM Tony calls Casey

12:50pm - Casey left the Anthony house with Caylee to 'go to work.' She was dressed in her work clothes, including the gray pin-stripped pants. Casey tells George she will be spending the night at Zanny's house, with Caylee.

12:53pm - Casey calls Tony

12:55pm - Tony calls Casey

1:00pm - Casey calls Tony and talks for 14 minutes - ping near Anthony home

1:06pm - Amy and Casey text about Amy's wrecked car.

Above bolded by and shortened from original by me. I am having and issue with the bolded timeline. How was Casey able to talk with Tony and text back and forth with Amy at the same time? If she talked with Tony for 14 mins...that goes well into the texting timeline.

Jolynna
11-03-2008, 07:20 PM
I think she lay her down next to the pool. Then moved her into the corner behind the playhouse, removed the lid to the sandbox and put her in the sandbox, replaced the lid.

That's my theory, too.

Pink Panther
11-03-2008, 07:24 PM
JBean, please let us have this "working" thread, at least for a little while, to determine exactly what Casey did and where she was on the day Caylee disappeared.

What we know so far:

8:46 AM Casey calls Tony

11:47 AM Tony calls Casey

12:50pm - Casey left the Anthony house with Caylee to 'go to work.' She was dressed in her work clothes, including the gray pin-stripped pants. Casey tells George she will be spending the night at Zanny's house, with Caylee.

12:53pm - Casey calls Tony

12:55pm - Tony calls Casey

1:00pm - Casey calls Tony and talks for 14 minutes - ping near Anthony home

1:06pm - Amy and Casey text about Amy's wrecked car.

1:26pm - Casey texts Jesse

1:37pm - Jesse texts Casey

1:44pm - Casey calls Amy and talks for 36 minutes - ping near Anthony home

2:30 - estimated - George left for work

2:52 - Jesse calls Casey and talks for 12 minutes. He hears Caylee in background. Pings indicate Casey is at the Anthony home.

3:04pm - Call from George - 25 seconds

3:35pm - Call to Tony - 22 seconds

4:10pm - Call to George at work - 34 seconds

4:11 to 4:13 - Casey attempts to phone Cindy four times.

4:14 - Call to George - 98 seconds

4:18 - Cell phone pings show she departed from the A's or that area and is near Chickasaw - up until this time all pings were at towers near the Anthony home

4:18 - text from Tony

4:19 - One minute call to Tony.

4:21 - Two calls to Jesse. Second call 75 seconds.

4:25 - Another attempt to call Cindy

5:20 - tower pinged near Blanchard Park

5:30 - estimated - Cindy returns home from work. Casey and Caylee are not there.

6:31 - call to Cindy

6:32 - call to Cindy

6:32 - call home

7:06 - call home

7:20 - call to Amy

7:21 - call to Amy 42 seconds

7:50 - video shows Casey, wearing jean shorts, at Blockbuster with Tony. Caylee is not there.

8:03 - checks voice mail

10:45 - Text from Amy

11:17 - Text from MH (who is MH?)

Let's fill in the gaps.
Here Chilly.

shadow of my mind
11-03-2008, 07:28 PM
Jesse G. saying he heard Caylee on June 16 at 2:52PM
Hope this helps.


June 16 Jesse called Casey, [2:52PM] spoke for 16 minuets, corrected it to 12 minuets, spoke about Cindy & George were getting a divorce and Cindy was not moving out and Casey had to get a place of her own. Hear Caylee in the background.
Page 1515 Lines 25 Page 1516 Lines 1-16 Jesse G. Interview with LE 7/23/2008
http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/jg092308.pdf

This is the actual wording from the transcript of the interview on July 23, 2008 of conversation between LE officer Corporal Eric Edwards and Jesse G. about Jesse saying he heard Caylee in the background while he was speaking to Casey on the phone on June 16, 2008


JG: Check, I just want to check to make sure she called me and I didn’t call her. I believe she called me. But I don’t want to misquote myself
EE: That’s fine
JG: yeah. We had a long conversation, Um, it was not, it was not a normal, if that is the correct choice of words. Here we go. Uhm yeah. (affirmative) I spoke with her.
LE: You called her?
JG: Yeah 06/16
LE Alright.
JG: Uhm I had sixteen minuets on here. Well I don’t know why I have sixteen. It should be, it should be a twelve-minuet conversation.
LE: Twelve minuets?
JG: Yeah (affirmative) that’s what I have highlighted here. I don’t know why I highlighted it.
LE: Okay
JG: Uhm, Uh
LE: And you possibly heard the child in the background at this time?
JG: It was not, yeah, (affirmative) it was not un-normal to hear Caylee in the background whenever I was talking to Casey.
LE: What was the content of that conversation?
JG: The fact that her mom was not moving out any more. Casey now had to find a place to live. Uhm she couldn’t stay at home anymore. And that her parents were getting a divorce.
Page 1516 Lines 19-25 & Page 1517 Lines 1-16
http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/jg092308.pdf

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 07:32 PM
Here Chilly.


Thanks, PP. Maybe we can just copy it to a new post once every few pages for reference. That will work.

Elley Mae
11-03-2008, 07:34 PM
OT dinner time.

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 07:34 PM
I don't think it happened on the 16th. I think GA and JG were describing "normal" kinds of calls and clothes observations. I don't think they are recalling that specific event direct from memory, but filling in with what was normal or placing a more normal contact on that day. The mind does things like that to people.
I think it is more likely KC chloroformed Caylee the night of June 15th, intending to keep her asleep for a longer period of time than just a party; and left chloroform in the vehicle. I think KC placed Caylee in the trunk to sleep it off and ... that is where Caylee died. It is possible Caylee woke up for a while while locked in the trunk. Chloroform leaves the patient with a kick-arse headache, nausea and diarrhea. When Caylee woke up, she had those. The "stain" could have been vomit or diarrhea. That's how they know how her body was positioned in the trunk.

To believe that it happened on the night of the 15th means you have to discount the statements of Cindy, George, Jesse, Casey, and Tony, along with the overnight pings showing that Casey was home at the Anthonys. I see no reason to do so.

okiedokietoo
11-03-2008, 07:59 PM
To believe that it happened on the night of the 15th means you have to discount the statements of Cindy, George, Jesse, Casey, and Tony, along with the overnight pings showing that Casey was home at the Anthonys. I see no reason to do so.
Ok but if you go by the facts, hard facts - one would have to discount GA's statement - and go by hard evidence, the cell phone records/pings and the Video at BB only.
The pings put KC within the cell towers range for the A Home - the pings don't zero in for the exact long lat for the house, just that area. KC could have been in her car few blocks away from the A Home and it still would have shown her within the area of the Home. So the pings showing KC at her house might not be a fact.
The times she made calls and sent text is a fact and the BB Video is a fact.

FloridaKatz
11-03-2008, 07:59 PM
If TES & LE has everyone searching on Boggy Creek Rd. and Tradeport Drive this coming weekend, wouldn't that indicate that they've pinpointed the date of Caylee's demise/disappearance to the 16th, based on the Ping location ? And if they've narrowed it down to the date, shouldn't it just be a matter of narrowing down the time of day ?

shadow of my mind
11-03-2008, 08:36 PM
June 16, 2008 All Cell Phone activity from Casey's Cell Phone


Outgoing Calls & Text From Casey’s Cell Phone June 16, 2008

6/16/08 1:05 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:05 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:06 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:07 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:09 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:11 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:12 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:14 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:15 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:17 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:19 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:23 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:31 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:54 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 3:22 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 7:45 AM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.0 No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 8:46 AM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 12:53 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:26 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 9293 Jesse G. Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:44 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 36.1 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 3:35 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 0.4 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 4:10 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 0 Lexus Dlrshp 0.6 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 4:11 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 4:11 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) 0.1 No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 4:13 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 4:13 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) 0.0 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 4:14 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 0 Lexus Dlrshp 1.6 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 4:18 PM OUTGOING TEXT 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
6/16/08 4:19 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 1.0 Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
6/16/08 4:21 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9293 Jesse G. No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 4:21 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9293 Jesse G. 1.3 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
6/16/08 4:25 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
6/16/08 6:31 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 6:32 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) 0.1 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 6:32 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4909 Anthony Home 0.3 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 6:33 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9286 Casey A. 0.9 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 7:06 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4909 Anthony Home 1.4 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 7:20 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 7:21 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 0.7 No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 8:03 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
6/16/08 9:04 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L


Casey’s Cell Phone Incoming calls answered on June 16, 2008

6/16/08 3:08 AM INCOMING CALL ANSWRD 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. 14.4 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 11:47 AM INCOMING CALL ANSWRD 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. 18.6 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:00 PM INCOMING CALL ANSWRD 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. 13.8 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 2:52 PM INCOMING CALL ANSWRD 9293 Jesse G. 9286 Casey A. 11.2 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 3:04 PM INCOMING CALL ANSWRD 3564 George A. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. 0.4 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home


Incoming Text to Casey’s Cell Phone June 16th [she does not need to be with the phone to receive this text)

6/16/08 12:20 AM INCOMING TEXT 7724 Number text: '7724' 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 12:40 AM INCOMING TEXT 7720 Number text: '7720' 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:06 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:08 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:12 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:13 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:14 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:15 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 1:18 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:18 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
6/16/08 2:57 AM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 11:43 AM INCOMING TEXT 7722 Number text: '7722' 9286 Casey A. No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 11:52 AM INCOMING TEXT 7722 Number text: '7722' 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 12:55 PM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 1:27 PM INCOMING TEXT 9293 Jesse G. 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 3:23 PM INCOMING TEXT 7724 Number text: '7724' 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 3:35 PM INCOMING TEXT 7722 Number text: '7722' 9286 Casey A. Tower 49: 1 mi N of Amscot, 1 mi SE of TonE L
6/16/08 3:39 PM INCOMING TEXT 7723 Number text: '7723' 9286 Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
6/16/08 4:19 PM INCOMING TEXT 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 9286 Casey A. Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
6/16/08 4:53 PM INCOMING TEXT 5187 Number text: '5187' 9286 Casey A. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 5:57 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 6:34 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
6/16/08 6:34 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 9:04 PM INCOMING TEXT 9286 Casey A. Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
6/16/08 10:45 PM INCOMING TEXT 9214 Amy H. 9286 Casey A. Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
I think I have cramps for the first time in 3 years. This sucks! I forgot how much it hurts.
6/16/08 11:17 PM INCOMING TEXT 9214 Amy H. 9286 Casey A. Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
So I'm not feeling good so I'm just going to crash at the boys. I’ll call in the morning.


Inbound Voice Mail to Casey’s Cell Phone June 16th

6/16/08 7:45 AM INCOMING CALL VMAIL INBOUND 4909 Anthony Home 9286 Casey A. 0.0 No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 8:03 PM INCOMING CALL VMAIL INBOUND 4511 Mark H. 9286 Casey A. 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L

Casey Checking her Voice mail on June 16th

6/16/08 MON 7:45 AM OUTGOING CALL VMAIL RECORDING 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.0 No Long/Lat Association
6/16/08 MON 8:03 PM OUTGOING CALL VMAIL RECORDING 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L

BonKai
11-03-2008, 08:43 PM
Casey was on the phone with Tony at that time. Can a person text while they're on a call? I think I'm the last person on earth who does not have a cell phone.

O/T: Chilly, I don't have a cell phone either. Had one years ago when they first came out and I thought it was a pain! Am thinking about getting another one and not telling anyone! :crazy:

txsvicki
11-03-2008, 09:00 PM
Caylee could have been dying while Casey talked to Amy for 36 minutes. I can see Casey being on the phone during the event. If Jesse claims to have heard Caylee then Amy should have heard her quite a bit during the long conversation and I don't believe she did.

Georgia PI
11-03-2008, 09:10 PM
Hi Group,

Just in case you didn't know, here is the link to all the other Ping Maps and conversation threads broken down by day.

If you have something to discuss about a particular day, please feel free to do so on that individual day's thread.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233

cocoamom
11-03-2008, 09:13 PM
Try this for me - look at the above pings listed and imagine that the pings NE of the Anthony home happen when she is at Lee's house. Imagine that the pings S of the Anthony home happen when she is at mom and dads...

Fight w/Cindy on the 15th - goes to bros house. Has to go home to get clothes for imaginary job sees GA while there for about 1/2 hour. Goes back to Lee's, etc. Calls CA multiple times to see if she is home after getting off early because she wants to go back for something or to kill time (no pun intended) before going to Tonys. The pings fit better this way. Hundredth time I have asked this question: have they checked Lee's house and yard?

PS I remember a police report or something from LE that said they found a stain, fluids AND SOIL (not sand) in the trunk - anyone remember this?

15th approx. 10:30-11:30 PM Caylee dies wherever and however - chloroform involved and IMO Xanex too - what kid will sit still for mom to snuff her with chloroform??? Need the Xanex to calm her down/sleep before chloroform...Caylee is in trunk - Casey is raging because CA fite and hating Caylee. Casey stays at Lee's - he figures Caylee is at mom and dads. Next day only hours after Caylee died, Casey goes home runs into GA - he is mistaken about seeing them - too much detail - trying to fill in the blanks intentionally. Caylee is in trunk. In one of the 30 minute no activity periods she buries her shallow in back yard. Feeling grossed out and panicky calls GA then CA multiple times. Needs to talk to someone, gets JG. Talks about moving out (that was part of the fight so she is setting the stage for future move out and Caylee not being around). Leaves back to Lee's then Tony's.

Doesn't want to drive the car - reminds her of her daughter being in the trunk over night. Goes with Tony to BB,etc. 10:30-11:00pm 15th + 2.6 days = afternoon of the 18th - decides to move the body (where did the body in the trunk in that movie end up?) because CA/GA were talking about putting down pavers, noticed depression in ground, talking about July 4th barbeque, GA saying he's calling cops about stolen gas cans and she doesn't want cops seeing the depression, whatever reason. borrows shovel to dig her up because GA put diff locks on sheds and can't get to their shovel. Puts body that was buried in a garbage bag in trunk = leaks some. Soil from bag gets in trunk too. Dips shovel in pool to wash it off, returns it and takes off to wherever by airport/down south to dump body.

Leaked fluids continue to decompose and stink until she dumps car at Amscot. Did you ever have anyone get sick in your car? No matter how much cleanup you did, it seemed to get worse with time, especially in FL heat. The fluids continue to decompose even after body is long gone from trunk = smell and "dead squirrel" story...
My theory - what you think?

OR, she buried her at Lee's and later moved her to mom and dads and she is still there!!!! Dig up the whole yard!!!!!!!

Chilly Willy
11-03-2008, 09:16 PM
Hi Group,

Just in case you didn't know, here is the link to all the other Ping Maps and conversation threads broken down by day.

If you have something to discuss about a particular day, please feel free to do so on that individual day's thread.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233

Hi Georgia. I owe you an apology because I started a new 6/16 thread not knowing that a similar one, created by you, already existed. I believe JBean has merged us now, so all is good, right? Hope so.

Georgia PI
11-03-2008, 09:18 PM
Hi Georgia. I owe you an apology because I started a new 6/16 thread not knowing that a similar one, created by you, already existed. I believe JBean has merged us now, so all is good, right? Hope so.

No problem, they are merged.

Carry on Sleuthers

JBean
11-03-2008, 09:23 PM
Hi Georgia. I owe you an apology because I started a new 6/16 thread not knowing that a similar one, created by you, already existed. I believe JBean has merged us now, so all is good, right? Hope so.
This thread will be moved up with the others a little later. Hopefully memebrs that are truly interested in the timeline development will join Georgia and all the others that are working so hard on this information.

Tom'sGirl
11-03-2008, 09:43 PM
This thread will be moved up with the others a little later. Hopefully members that are truly interested in the timeline development will join Georgia and all the others that are working so hard on this information.
:cool2:

shadow of my mind
11-03-2008, 09:44 PM
On June 16, 2008
As far as the time after George A. said he saw Caylee these are the only time periods that are longer than 20 minuets based on when it is known that Casey was actually using the phone

6/16/08 3:35 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 5443 Tony L. (Cell) 0.4 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
to
6/16/08 4:10 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 0 Lexus Dlrshp 0.6 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home

6/16/08 4:25 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
to
6/16/08 6:31 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4731 Cindy A. (Cell) Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt

6/16/08 6:33 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9286 Casey A. 0.9 Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt
to
6/16/08 7:06 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 4909 Anthony Home 1.4 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt

6/16/08 7:21 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9214 Amy H. 0.7 No Long/Lat Association
to
6/16/08 8:03 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L

7:50 - video shows Casey, wearing jean shorts, at Blockbuster with Tony. Caylee is not there.

6/16/08 8:03 PM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 7686 Casey Voicemail 0.1 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
to
6/17/08 10:59 AM OUTGOING CALL 9286 Casey A. 9286 Casey A. 0.6 Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L

JWG
11-03-2008, 10:32 PM
Here is more detail on the sequence starting at 4:10 PM:

4:10 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp
4:11 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
4:11 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
4:13 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
4:13 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
4:14 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp
4:18 PM OUTGOING TEXT Casey A. Tony L. (Cell)
4:19 PM INCOMING TEXT Tony L. (Cell) Casey A.
4:19 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Tony L. (Cell)
4:21 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Jesse G.
4:21 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Jesse G.
4:25 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)

Her father works at the Lexus Dealership, so Casey attempts to reach her parents 7 times in 15 minutes. Just prior to calling her father the second time, Casey appears to have already started driving as the call is picked up by a different cell covering a different sector on the same Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home that was repeatedly pinged earlier.

It is this frantic nature in which she tries to reach her parents that leads one to believe there was an "accident" involving Caylee. Perhaps she mixed up the chloroform, tested it on her daughter, and did not get the expected result (speculation).

BB12
11-03-2008, 10:48 PM
June 16 – Casey allegedly attend to Caylee in the morning. Cindy claims to hear them both in the bedroom but does not see them. Cindy leaves for work at 7:15am. George NOW STATES Casey/Caylee did regular morning routine. At 10:37am- Casey texts-Lauren Gibb*. At or about 12:50 p.m., George Anthony allegedly sees Casey and Caylee leave with backpacks on their shoulders. This is the last time anyone sees Caylee alive-EVER. At 2:30 p.m., George Anthony leaves for work. 3:45 p.m. rain fall. Between 4:10 to 4:25 Casey makes numerous calls, lasting anywhere from a few seconds to a minute, to her parents and several friends. I believe Casey murders Caylee and lays body in doll house. I believe the flurry of calls where to make sure know family member is home. TonE states this is the actual move in date-Casey brings her clothes over. TonE and Casey go to blockbuster and rent 2 movies- Jumper and Untraceable. Jesse called Casey for 12 minutes basically Casey is telling him that her mom, Cindy, wants her out of the house and that Casey mom is no longer signing the house over to Casey and bla bla see lie that Casey told Amy- same lie she just repeats it to Jesse. 9:58pm TonE produces receipts from blockbuster for rental of 2 movies the movies Jumper and Untraceable and a ATM receipt. 8:46 AM calls AL, 11:47 AM AL calls, 12:53 PM calls AL, 12:55 PM AL calls, 1:00 PM, TonE calls 14mins., 1:26 PM texts JG, 1:37 PM text from JG, 1:44 PM calls AH 164 seconds, 2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds, 3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds, 3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds, 4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds, 4:11 PM calls CA twice, 4:13 PM calls CA twice, 4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds, 4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home), 4:19 PM text from AL, 4:19 PM calls AL, 4:21 PM calls JG twice; second call 75 seconds, 4:25 PM calls CA 3 seconds (now pinging near AL's apt), 6:31 PM calls CA, 6:32 PM calls CA, 6:32 PM calls home, 7:06 PM calls home, 7:20 PM calls AH, 7:21 PM calls AH 42 seconds, 8:03 PM calls Voice Mail, 8:03 PM text from MH, 10:45 PM text from AH, 11:17 PM text from MH….2:52 p.m. Jesse Calls Casey - 11.2 min 4:21 p.m. Casey Calls Jesse - 1.3 min…. 7:54pm – blockbuster video store.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103915041605280294744.00045939495d21e691a46&ll=28.558592,-81.309128&spn=0.265966,0.43396&t=h&z=11

Time gaps maybe worth noting while at the Anthony home were from 8:46 AM to 11:43 AM (eating/dressing perhaps) and from 1:44 to 2:52 pm; Casey adds pic from Fusian to her photobucket account.

david918
11-03-2008, 11:04 PM
O/T: Chilly, I don't have a cell phone either. Had one years ago when they first came out and I thought it was a pain! Am thinking about getting another one and not telling anyone! :crazy:

yes i tested on my att phone. I maintained a call while sending and receiving text msgs.

BB12
11-04-2008, 12:02 AM
10:37am- Casey texts-Lauren Gibb*.

June 16

Lauren received this per Lauren's phone

Is this an error??

BB12
11-04-2008, 12:17 AM
French - The forensics show that she had the body in the trunk at 2.6 days of decomposition. She either:

- left it in the trunk the whole time
- left in the yard and then moved it to the trunk
- left it in a hiding spot and then moved it to the trunk

Any of these scenarios is risky to say the least! :confused:

Murdered in a rage, hid body in trunk, moved to doll house, moved to dirt pile, moved back to trunk, june 18, kept in trunk until disposal.....jmho......

also- I think Casey hid out at lee's home after the June 15th fight- it is the same cell tower. Then returned home for Caylee then at 12:50 returned to Lee's home until GA left for work. Then Caylee is already dead or gets dead---moving to doll house is done after ga leaves for work.....:confused:

Pink Panther
11-04-2008, 09:49 AM
10:37am- Casey texts-Lauren Gibb*.

June 16

Lauren received this per Lauren's phone

Is this an error??

I think that they had had a falling out so, maybe Lauren had phoned her by mistake and KC sent a text message back? I missed this message. Where did you find it?

ETA - Shadow - I don't see this text in your summaries??? Could this be an error?

shadow of my mind
11-05-2008, 01:25 PM
I think that they had had a falling out so, maybe Lauren had phoned her by mistake and KC sent a text message back? I missed this message. Where did you find it?

ETA - Shadow - I don't see this text in your summaries??? Could this be an error?

Originally Posted by *********
10:37am- Casey texts-Lauren Gibb*.

June 16

Lauren received this per Lauren's phone

Is this an error??

I double checked the spread sheet. There is no text or phone call showing for a Lauren G. on June 16. The spread sheets show nothing. I also looked at July 16 just in case dates were mixed. Nothing on that day either. I don't see any calls or text to her at all.
Lauren's G. interview has no mention of any calls or text between them either. I am not sure

The phone number log does show calls but has no number listed this may be why it is not showing on the sheet.

I will PM TeasLil & BondJamesBond. I have to run some errands and will get this out to them later this afternoon. The missing number may be the hitch or I am just not seeing it.

JWG
11-05-2008, 01:37 PM
Looking at the original documents released by LE, I see no 10:37 AM entry (nothing from 8:46 to 11:43) for June 16 to anyone.

shadow of my mind
11-05-2008, 04:04 PM
The original post with the days activity is correct. There is no text at 10:37AM on June 16th.

There are no calls or text between Lauren G and Casey.

The spreadsheet counted all the blank spaces up in the entire sheet and since Laurens was also a blank space instead of a number it made the phone log list look like there were calls and text when there was not. [That is why it did not show up under the days activity because it was not there]

TexasLil
11-05-2008, 04:11 PM
The original post with the days activity is correct. There is no text at 10:37AM on June 16th.

There are no calls or text between Lauren G and Casey.

The spreadsheet counted all the blank spaces up in the entire sheet and since Laurens was also a blank space instead of a number it made the phone log list look like there were calls and text when there was not. [That is why it did not show up under the days activity because it was not there]

Thanks for clearing this Shadow. Sorry for the confusion. Hopefully I can get a phone number for her and confirm they spoke in July.

Whyamisointerested
11-12-2008, 10:30 AM
I don't think it happened on the 16th. I think GA and JG were describing "normal" kinds of calls and clothes observations. I don't think they are recalling that specific event direct from memory, but filling in with what was normal or placing a more normal contact on that day. The mind does things like that to people.
I think it is more likely KC chloroformed Caylee the night of June 15th, intending to keep her asleep for a longer period of time than just a party; and left chloroform in the vehicle. I think KC placed Caylee in the trunk to sleep it off and ... that is where Caylee died. It is possible Caylee woke up for a while while locked in the trunk. Chloroform leaves the patient with a kick-arse headache, nausea and diarrhea. When Caylee woke up, she had those. The "stain" could have been vomit or diarrhea. That's how they know how her body was positioned in the trunk.

Ive been on this case since day one. I agree with you completely. I have always thought the observations of G & C A on the 16th were off, maybe innocently,but now I'm beginning to think not. I think that they did have a huge fight on the 15th, at some point KC leaves but has Caylee with her and drugs her as Caylee is upset and really didn't want to leave. Casey realizes she has no money,clothes and Caylee, she can't do much and she is raging mad. Or maybe after the fight CA tells her she has to get out, and to leave Caylee,KC freaks and says shes taking Caylee with her and leaves. She ends up drugging Caylee,no big deal she does it all the time,not putting her in the trunk, just in the backseat and Caylee falls asleep. Meanwhile KC sits in a hiding spot close to home and proceeds to talk /text AL all night long, till 3or4 in the am. When CA awakes in the a.m. the girls are gone, and she calls KC phone it goes to vm.Shes so mad at KC and has to go to work. Shes worried about Caylee but she has to get to work and cant deal with KC this morning. George never sees KC on the 16th,she sneaks back in after he is gone , freaking out calling everyone, has to have alibi's, puts Caylee in the backyard while she figures this all out, has to pack her stuff,. etc.etc. Then decides to put Caylee in the trunk, where some fluid is released, thus the stain.....

* On June 24th Casey texts AH " Hell in the past 9 days I haven't even been living in the house DRAMMMMA. That would take us back to the 15th.

* On July 3rd Cindy's famous post on My space. Cindy writes among other things "she leaves without warning"

* The astro chart says she died in the early morning of the 16th.

momtective
11-14-2008, 09:57 PM
I think wherever Casey put Caylee she put her there before going to the "Neutral Place"
She mentioned the "Neutral place" in her statement as being "TonE's place"
I'm looking at this time period right here...
June 16th
16:25:24 407-619-9286 Casey to 407-808-4731Cindy 28.5652389 -81.2958361
28 minute break in phone usage
16:53:33 1-326-65187 unknown to 407-619-9286 Casey 28.5653380 -81.2958361
Over a one hour break in phone usage
17:57:57 11 to 407-619-9286 Casey 28.6039167 -81.2876111

momtective
11-14-2008, 10:34 PM
I think wherever Casey put Caylee she put her there before going to the "Neutral Place"
She mentioned the "Neutral place" in her statement as being "TonE's place"
I'm looking at this time period right here...
June 16th
16:25:24 407-619-9286 Casey to 407-808-4731Cindy 28.5652389 -81.2958361
28 minute break in phone usage
16:53:33 1-326-65187 unknown to 407-619-9286 Casey 28.5653380 -81.2958361
Over a one hour break in phone usage
17:57:57 11 to 407-619-9286 Casey 28.6039167 -81.2876111


I'm thinking that Caylee died on June 16th. I can't see Casey moving a dead body from place to place to place. I'm thinking she disposed of Caylee on the 16th shortly after she died, before riger set in. From the above pings there are extended periods of no cell phone usage. From 4:25pm until 4:53 for almost 30 minutes and from 4:53 to 5:58 over an hour break in cell phone usage.

momtective
11-14-2008, 11:49 PM
I'm thinking that Caylee died on June 16th. I can't see Casey moving a dead body from place to place to place. I'm thinking she disposed of Caylee on the 16th shortly after she died, before riger set in. From the above pings there are extended periods of no cell phone usage. From 4:25pm until 4:53 for almost 30 minutes and from 4:53 to 5:58 over an hour break in cell phone usage.

Any mapper/pingers think this is a possibility?

Anybody at all think this is a possibility?

Anybody?:rolleyes:

Whyamisointerested
11-15-2008, 04:13 PM
Any mapper/pingers think this is a possibility?

Anybody at all think this is a possibility?

Anybody?:rolleyes:

I think KC almost definately movedher from place to place and that is why this investigation is so hard.Who knows I could be wrong, but I do believe that she was in the backyard at some point,the trunk at some point, and also the "spot" and possibly moved from there to a final "spot".

AZlawyer
11-15-2008, 09:04 PM
Any mapper/pingers think this is a possibility?

Anybody at all think this is a possibility?

Anybody?:rolleyes:

I think she must have been in the trunk 2-3 days after death, to explain the forensics findings.

BondJamesBond
11-15-2008, 10:54 PM
I'm thinking that Caylee died on June 16th. I can't see Casey moving a dead body from place to place to place. I'm thinking she disposed of Caylee on the 16th shortly after she died, before riger set in. From the above pings there are extended periods of no cell phone usage. From 4:25pm until 4:53 for almost 30 minutes and from 4:53 to 5:58 over an hour break in cell phone usage.

Best info, IMHO, has Caylee's t.o.d. between 6/16 3PM and 6/17 1AM. Consider that an overdose may not cause immediate death. Depending on the dosage and the drug it may require some time for the organs to completely shutdown.

The forensics have the body in the trunk AT LEAST ONCE ~2.6 days after t.o.d. w/ some hours + or - depending on the exact conditions and assumptions made in this figure. After 2.6 days the body was either (a) encapsulated in a leakproof container/bags, OR (b) it was removed from the trunk.

IMHO, the body came out of the trunk of the Pontiac 6/19 for the last time.

momtective
11-15-2008, 11:11 PM
Best info, IMHO, has Caylee's t.o.d. between 6/16 3PM and 6/17 1AM. Consider that an overdose may not cause immediate death. Depending on the dosage and the drug it may require some time for the organs to completely shutdown.

The forensics have the body in the trunk AT LEAST ONCE ~2.6 days after t.o.d. w/ some hours + or - depending on the exact conditions and assumptions made in this figure. After 2.6 days the body was either (a) encapsulated in a leakproof container/bags, OR (b) it was removed from the trunk.

IMHO, the body came out of the trunk of the Pontiac 6/19 for the last time.

I do agree..I forgot about the 2.6 days. I'm thinking at some point Casey must have put Caylee's body in a plastic storage container, suitcase, or duffel bag...but I just can't see Casey picking up a dead Caylee when her body is stiff and cold. I can't see her even touching her...Casey appears to be so foo-foo. I just can't see her picking the baby up in her arms days after her demise. Say she put Caylee in the trunk on the 16th just before leaving the A home around 4:18pm, left er there until the 17th then put her in the container. Would the forensics still show 2.6 days. It would only be 1 to 1.6 days...is there room for error in the forensics?

mom_of_five
11-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Best info, IMHO, has Caylee's t.o.d. between 6/16 3PM and 6/17 1AM. Consider that an overdose may not cause immediate death. Depending on the dosage and the drug it may require some time for the organs to completely shutdown.

The forensics have the body in the trunk AT LEAST ONCE ~2.6 days after t.o.d. w/ some hours + or - depending on the exact conditions and assumptions made in this figure. After 2.6 days the body was either (a) encapsulated in a leakproof container/bags, OR (b) it was removed from the trunk.

IMHO, the body came out of the trunk of the Pontiac 6/19 for the last time.

Ditto.

BondJamesBond
11-15-2008, 11:23 PM
I do agree..I forgot about the 2.6 days. I'm thinking at some point Casey must have put Caylee's body in a plastic storage container, suitcase, or duffel bag...but I just can't see Casey picking up a dead Caylee when her body is stiff and cold. I can't see her even touching her...Casey appears to be so foo-foo. I just can't see her picking the baby up in her arms days after her demise. Say she put Caylee in the trunk on the 16th just before leaving the A home around 4:18pm, left er there until the 17th then put her in the container. Would the forensics still show 2.6 days. It would only be 1 to 1.6 days...is there room for error in the forensics?

Answers re: 2.6 here: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&highlight=trunk

momtective
11-15-2008, 11:27 PM
Answers re: 2.6 here: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752&highlight=trunk

Thanks

Pink Panther
11-16-2008, 08:29 AM
Best info, IMHO, has Caylee's t.o.d. between 6/16 3PM and 6/17 1AM. Consider that an overdose may not cause immediate death. Depending on the dosage and the drug it may require some time for the organs to completely shutdown.

The forensics have the body in the trunk AT LEAST ONCE ~2.6 days after t.o.d. w/ some hours + or - depending on the exact conditions and assumptions made in this figure. After 2.6 days the body was either (a) encapsulated in a leakproof container/bags, OR (b) it was removed from the trunk.

IMHO, the body came out of the trunk of the Pontiac 6/19 for the last time.
I completely agree and if one goes with this theory, the pings and KC's movements can be considerably narrowed down! The absolute latest date I believe that she could have moved her from the trunk is the 20th. I'm surprised that this wasn't done for the last search??? Regardless, this is the information that I have been trying to sort through as well. We have quite a bit of testimony as to where she was during this period from June 16th - 20th.

ETA - Friday June 20th - she partied away at Fusion. Her first "celebration" of freedom after the fact...

Whisperer
11-16-2008, 11:04 PM
Can anyone tell me how I can view all of your google maps. When I click on your links, i get to the google maps website and it has my screename(for googlemaps) and it says LOADING (highlighted in yellow) but the screen remains blank and says "done".

I have tried 5 browsers....none work..I don't know what to do...:waitasec:

Georgia PI
11-17-2008, 10:30 AM
Can anyone tell me how I can view all of your google maps. When I click on your links, i get to the google maps website and it has my screename(for googlemaps) and it says LOADING (highlighted in yellow) but the screen remains blank and says "done".

I have tried 5 browsers....none work..I don't know what to do...:waitasec:

Log out of your Google account, then click on the link.

BondJamesBond
11-17-2008, 11:39 AM
10:37am- Casey texts-Lauren Gibb*.

June 16

Lauren received this per Lauren's phone

Is this an error??

Not sure of the origin of this question. However, if the "this" is in regards to a text message, I offer an error was made in assigning the message to June vs. July 16 when the mass text messages went out advising people in Casey's contacts list that Caylee was missing, etc. etc.

Just a thought.

Pink Panther
11-17-2008, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by *********
10:37am- Casey texts-Lauren Gibb*.

June 16

Lauren received this per Lauren's phone

Is this an error??

I double checked the spread sheet. There is no text or phone call showing for a Lauren G. on June 16. The spread sheets show nothing. I also looked at July 16 just in case dates were mixed. Nothing on that day either. I don't see any calls or text to her at all.
Lauren's G. interview has no mention of any calls or text between them either. I am not sure

The phone number log does show calls but has no number listed this may be why it is not showing on the sheet.

I will PM TeasLil & BondJamesBond. I have to run some errands and will get this out to them later this afternoon. The missing number may be the hitch or I am just not seeing it.
I have been unable to find any information regarding the specific message outlined above but perhaps it has something to do with the myspace message that KC left Lauren on June 16th as follows:

"Jun 16 2008 10:37 AM

1. great song :)

2. sorry i couldn't make it the other night. between stuff with work, and helping everyone and their mother move, i needed the rest.

3. you and miss mandy mo should come out to fusian one night. no cover. you can have a glass of wine. it's actually good for you, and the baby :)

i'll give you a call this week!"

It's odd that both messages occured at 10:37am???

Georgia PI
11-17-2008, 11:59 AM
From the Calendar: Caylee Anthony Case


Originaly Posted By: liltigress

Casey's Online Presence

06-16-2008

From Casey to Lauren:
Jun 16 2008 10:37 AM
1. great song
2. sorry i couldn't make it the other night. between stuff with work, and helping everyone and their mother move, i needed the rest.
3. you and miss mandy mo should come out to fusian one night. no cover. you can have a glass of wine. it's actually good for you, and the baby
i'll give you a call this week!

AZlawyer
11-17-2008, 12:01 PM
I forgot about that myspace message! I think it makes George's version of the morning of June 16 seem more likely, and the "Caylee died the night of June 15 after the fight" theory seem less likely.

Pink Panther
11-17-2008, 12:08 PM
I forgot about that myspace message! I think it makes George's version of the morning of June 16 seem more likely, and the "Caylee died the night of June 15 after the fight" theory seem less likely.

She's definitely on the computer that morning! According to another entry in the calendar made by Muzicman, she uploaded fusion-related pictures to her computer at 9:27 am that morning.

aprilshowers
11-17-2008, 02:04 PM
I had NO idea where to post this, and I hope this isn't the WRONG place, but I think it's very interesting information.

I found this online, while searching for a cell phone reader:

How far back in time can the SIM card Reader recover deleted text messages?

It works like this: When you delete a text message from your phone, the text message is still recoverable until it is overwritten by a new message. Most SIM cards hold 64k - 128k of information, which is the equivalent of 64,000 - 128,000 characters - an awful lot of text. The Sim Card Reader will show you everything that has not yet been overwritten on the card.

While it's impossible to determine exactly how far back you will be able to go, you can get an idea by considering the amount of text messages that are sent on a regular basis. If you send a few short texts per day, you may be able to go back months or even years. If you send hundreds of texts every day, you may not be able to go back very far.

Bolded by me: So did she on purpose, text as much as she did, to cover over messages she didn't want seen or found?

Information found here: http://www.proofpronto.com/ (http://www.proofpronto.com/cell-phone)

JWG
11-17-2008, 03:07 PM
I had NO idea where to post this, and I hope this isn't the WRONG place, but I think it's very interesting information.

I found this online, while searching for a cell phone reader:

How far back in time can the SIM card Reader recover deleted text messages?

It works like this: When you delete a text message from your phone, the text message is still recoverable until it is overwritten by a new message. Most SIM cards hold 64k - 128k of information, which is the equivalent of 64,000 - 128,000 characters - an awful lot of text. The Sim Card Reader will show you everything that has not yet been overwritten on the card.

While it's impossible to determine exactly how far back you will be able to go, you can get an idea by considering the amount of text messages that are sent on a regular basis. If you send a few short texts per day, you may be able to go back months or even years. If you send hundreds of texts every day, you may not be able to go back very far.

Bolded by me: So did she on purpose, text as much as she did, to cover over messages she didn't want seen or found?

Information found here: http://www.proofpronto.com/ (http://www.proofpronto.com/cell-phone)



I doubt Casey did research on how to eliminate text messages. A simpler method is to reformat the card, and there are plenty of places on the web that tell you how to do that. You can even do it by writing a large file to the card repeatedly.

By the way, texting as much as Casey did is not, alas, all that unusual this day and age. My daughter and her friends are on unlimited plans that cost about $20 / month. She sends and receives about 6,000 (six thousand) per month. I have checked her phone bills and she never sends any between 11:00 PM and 6 AM, nor any during school hours. She also does not send any during the 2 1/2 hours of soccer practice she has each day. I asked her how she could possibly average 200 messages a day and she just shrugged. She almost never calls anyone - just texts. And she is fast.

I don't think it is reflective of being a "bad kid" either. She and her friends that do this are in the top of her class and tied up in lots of sports and volunteer activities. Unlike Casey they do not spend any time on facebook or web instant messenger. The phone has completely replaced all that.

AZlawyer
11-17-2008, 05:21 PM
I doubt Casey did research on how to eliminate text messages. A simpler method is to reformat the card, and there are plenty of places on the web that tell you how to do that. You can even do it by writing a large file to the card repeatedly.

By the way, texting as much as Casey did is not, alas, all that unusual this day and age. My daughter and her friends are on unlimited plans that cost about $20 / month. She sends and receives about 6,000 (six thousand) per month. I have checked her phone bills and she never sends any between 11:00 PM and 6 AM, nor any during school hours. She also does not send any during the 2 1/2 hours of soccer practice she has each day. I asked her how she could possibly average 200 messages a day and she just shrugged. She almost never calls anyone - just texts. And she is fast.

I don't think it is reflective of being a "bad kid" either. She and her friends that do this are in the top of her class and tied up in lots of sports and volunteer activities. Unlike Casey they do not spend any time on facebook or web instant messenger. The phone has completely replaced all that.

ITA. My daughter has to clear her messages a couple of times a day because she reaches the 100-message limit in her inbox. One time I asked her after she cleared it to tell me when she had to clear it again, and it was about 1 1/2 hours later.

technicalconfusion
11-17-2008, 06:11 PM
ITA. My daughter has to clear her messages a couple of times a day because she reaches the 100-message limit in her inbox. One time I asked her after she cleared it to tell me when she had to clear it again, and it was about 1 1/2 hours later.

I just can't fathom this. I have a razr v3 and it took me about 5 minutes today to type a two word message to my son. I have a treo as well, that has a qwerty, or standard keyboard on it, so I could use my thumbs and I still wasn't that fast. Amazing!

BondJamesBond
11-19-2008, 01:47 AM
May I suggest that the general discussion regarding SIM cards & texting habits carry on on the generic thread http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73373&page=22 and not on this individual-day thread?

KellioPSL
11-19-2008, 09:24 PM
this ping map is different than the one for the a's house for the 15th/ in the one for the 15th there is a ping tower between the two towers on this map. anyone know why, that tower is missing in this one for the 16th ? there should be a tower close to the close to nacroossee and goldenrod where it makes a triangle, help please

KellioPSL
11-20-2008, 10:05 AM
two calls were made on the 16th early morning one at 3:22 and one at 7:45, do we know who these calls were to ? were they kc checking vmail ?

Joyce
11-20-2008, 03:25 PM
ok guys some of you are way smarter than me with this ping map stuff ,i want to run something by yall about the 16th the day that have struck my interest because there is proof that her and AL rented a movie that night and Caylee wasnt present.I have studied her every movement on this day and you guys help me out here.ok referring to the ping map of this day;
ping 21 she must be at home time 4:13-4:14 but maybe leaving before CA gets there from work so
ping 22 4:18-4:21 on her way to tonys
ping 23 4:25-4:53 where is she? she stayed here awhile?she looked as if she was on her way to AL but stalled here her next ping was at AL house
ping 24 5:57-6:32
Ok my ? is this do we know what time they rented a movie and was it close to tonys house? Was the time that she stalled so much on and between ping 23 and 24 was that meeting AL to rent the movie? seems when she got at tones on Ping 24 she either stayed there for the night or stayed close by.I noticed in the surveillance video of them renting video its still day light outside.If the ping 23 is when they were at movie store then she had to dispose of Casey between the A's house and ping 23.I think what would answer all my ?questions is do we know what time the movie was rented?

TexasLil
11-20-2008, 03:42 PM
ok guys some of you are way smarter than me with this ping map stuff ,i want to run something by yall about the 16th the day that have struck my interest because there is proof that her and AL rented a movie that night and Caylee wasnt present.I have studied her every movement on this day and you guys help me out here.ok referring to the ping map of this day;
ping 21 she must be at home time 4:13-4:14 but maybe leaving before CA gets there from work so
ping 22 4:18-4:21 on her way to tonys
ping 23 4:25-4:53 where is she? she stayed here awhile?she looked as if she was on her way to AL but stalled here her next ping was at AL house
ping 24 5:57-6:32
Ok my ? is this do we know what time they rented a movie and was it close to tonys house? Was the time that she stalled so much on and between ping 23 and 24 was that meeting AL to rent the movie? seems when she got at tones on Ping 24 she either stayed there for the night or stayed close by.I noticed in the surveillance video of them renting video its still day light outside.If the ping 23 is when they were at movie store then she had to dispose of Casey between the A's house and ping 23.I think what would answer all my ?questions is do we know what time the movie was rented?

The report stated they rented a move at Blockbuster just before 8:00 p.m.

Joyce
11-20-2008, 04:19 PM
The report stated they rented a move at Blockbuster just before 8:00 p.m.

is that blockbuster near Al's home? seems she pinged at or near his home after that stall on ping 23.

do we know if the location of ping 23 has been searched and do we know what is in that location if Ga is telling the truth that he seen her at home that day then Caylee was either in the back yard or trunk .She was either at home or Al's all day except that one stall

BondJamesBond
11-21-2008, 12:49 AM
is that blockbuster near Al's home? seems she pinged at or near his home after that stall on ping 23.

do we know if the location of ping 23 has been searched and do we know what is in that location if Ga is telling the truth that he seen her at home that day then Caylee was either in the back yard or trunk .She was either at home or Al's all day except that one stall

Joyce, you have me looking over 6/16 afternoon cell log again and thinking about this "stall".

IIRC, in George's last released statement he commented about Casey sometimes dropping Caylee off with Cindy @ Cindy's work (Gentiva?) as it was convenient. I'll PM Georgia PI to see if she'll add Gentiva to the 6/16 map, but, you have me thinking that...
(1) the flurry of calls was to confirm that a drop off @ Gentiva would be ok, but, doesn't get Cindy
(2) Casey texts then calls Tony @ 4:19PM to the effect, "I'll see you in a bit..."
(3) Casey stops @ Ping23 and tries Jesse, then, waits to try Cindy again. Recall that Casey's trying to make it look like she's working, so she can't be @ G&C's when Cindy gets off work and since Casey hasn't been able to reach Cindy and Cindy left early for work that morning that Casey may have boogied thinking Cindy might come home early and catch her there.
(4) There's another "flurry" of calls from Casey to Cindy's cell and G&C home @ 6:30PM when Cindy should surely be home from work. At this point, Casey has driven on to Tony's and is pinging there.
(5) The last attempt to reach Cindy is @ 7:06PM when she calls the G&C home, pinging from Tony's.
(6) Casey makes a last-ditch effort to call Amy @ 7:20 & 7:21PM, perhaps thinking Amy could babysit Caylee
(7) Casey & Tony show up @ Blockbuster ~8PM w/ no sign of Caylee

...just thinkin' out loud here. Caylee may not have been drugged until as late as ~7:30PM 6/16.

Joyce
11-21-2008, 12:58 AM
Joyce, you have me looking over 6/16 afternoon cell log again and thinking about this "stall".

IIRC, in George's last released statement he commented about Casey sometimes dropping Caylee off with Cindy @ Cindy's work (Gentiva?) as it was convenient. I'll PM Georgia PI to see if she'll add Gentiva to the 6/16 map, but, you have me thinking that...
(1) the flurry of calls was to confirm that a drop off @ Gentiva would be ok, but, doesn't get Cindy
(2) Casey texts then calls Tony @ 4:19PM to the effect, "I'll see you in a bit..."
(3) Casey stops @ Ping23 and tries Jesse, then, waits to try Cindy again. Recall that Casey's trying to make it look like she's working, so she can't be @ G&C's when Cindy gets off work and since Casey hasn't been able to reach Cindy and Cindy left early for work that morning that Casey may have boogied thinking Cindy might come home early and catch her there.
(4) There's another "flurry" of calls from Casey to Cindy's cell and G&C home @ 6:30PM when Cindy should surely be home from work. At this point, Casey has driven on to Tony's and is pinging there.
(5) The last attempt to reach Cindy is @ 7:06PM when she calls the G&C home, pinging from Tony's.
(6) Casey makes a last-ditch effort to call Amy @ 7:20 & 7:21PM, perhaps thinking Amy could babysit Caylee
(7) Casey & Tony show up @ Blockbuster ~8PM w/ no sign of Caylee

...just thinkin' out loud here. Caylee may not have been drugged until as late as ~7:30PM 6/16.
well your right i mean she wasnt seen without Caylee until Blockbuster.Ive got some doubt of her calling Cindy to babysitt because of the fight the night before. You may have something though,maybe it was CA who was still pissed from the day before and she ignored KC's calls.Which in return made KC mad at CA and became that spiteful B****. I just know that this day has stole my sole lol because there is proof that Caylee was alive in the 15th and there is proof she wasnt with KC in the video store, so that 24 hour period is where something has taken place.

JWG
11-21-2008, 08:25 AM
It looks like the spreadsheet records get skewed at 4:11:25 PM with the "Missing Lat/Lon" entry. The following is done from the scanned copy of the Cell records. Looking at those records it looks like she drove straight from her parents to Tony's.

Leaves ~4:12, Arrives ~4:35 (Google drive time 20 to 25 minutes)
Route: Chickasaw to Colonial to Goldenrod

(Note the "direction" from the tower is actually a 120 degree sector, so SE means south to east-northeast)

4:13:29 PM SE of Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
4:14:48 PM N of Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
4:18:51 PM SE of Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
4:19:18 PM SE of Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
4:19:47 PM SE of Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
4:21:32 PM No Long/Lat Association
4:21:56 PM N of Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
4:25:24 PM SE of Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
4:53:33 PM N of Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L
This ping is consistent with her being at Tony's

5:57:57 PM SW of Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt

Here is a Google Earth image of the route and timeline:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4850

Georgia PI
11-21-2008, 10:02 AM
I'll PM Georgia PI to see if HE will add Gentiva to the 6/16 map. (snipped by me)

DONE, Gentiva is located West of Orlando and North of Jesse Grunds parents house, no pings in that area at all on this day.


Also, added Blockbuster store near his apartment (not sure if this is the correct one), 7530 University Blvd, Winter Park, FL‎

BellaPhia
12-10-2008, 07:56 PM
Can anyone shed some light on the pings early A.M. hours of 6/16.....it seems she was having "troubles" with AL from late night 6/15 until the wee hours of 6/16.....Im most interested from about 2am to 7:45am.....was she at home during this time or another location....I just find it curious as to why the "anthony home" called her phone at 7:45, why would that happen if she was at home? After that call she checks her voice mail? If she wasnt at home where was she? Maybe Im missing something....

Recovering-Lurker
12-10-2008, 08:07 PM
Can anyone shed some light on the pings early A.M. hours of 6/16.....it seems she was having "troubles" with AL from late night 6/15 until the wee hours of 6/16.....Im most interested from about 2am to 7:45am.....was she at home during this time or another location....I just find it curious as to why the "anthony home" called her phone at 7:45, why would that happen if she was at home? After that call she checks her voice mail? If she wasnt at home where was she? Maybe Im missing something....

There is speculation she was at Lee's house. He lives very close to the A's. I believe BondJamesBond posted some statistical data that basically proves this (I hope I am remembering correctly, but it may have been different dates).

BellaPhia
12-10-2008, 10:05 PM
Thanks....I think the night of the 15th into early AM of the 16th is very important. We know her where abouts from 16th going forward, but nothing released prior. As for GA seeing the KC/Caylee around noon on the 16th, after seeing him this evening on LKL I dont believe a word he has said, he says what CA tells him to say. Unfortunately, we will have to waite until trial to know the details.

JWG
12-10-2008, 10:33 PM
Thanks....I think the night of the 15th into early AM of the 16th is very important. We know her where abouts from 16th going forward, but nothing released prior. As for GA seeing the KC/Caylee around noon on the 16th, after seeing him this evening on LKL I dont believe a word he has said, he says what CA tells him to say. Unfortunately, we will have to waite until trial to know the details.

Hey Bella,

Unfortunately, there are a lot of loose threads hanging around. Check out this post (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3033912&postcount=94). I think you will find that the computer forensic evidence does place Casey at her parent's home the evening of the 15th / morning of the 16th.

LCoastMom
12-10-2008, 10:43 PM
Can anyone shed some light on the pings early A.M. hours of 6/16.....it seems she was having "troubles" with AL from late night 6/15 until the wee hours of 6/16.....Im most interested from about 2am to 7:45am.....was she at home during this time or another location....I just find it curious as to why the "anthony home" called her phone at 7:45, why would that happen if she was at home? After that call she checks her voice mail? If she wasnt at home where was she? Maybe Im missing something....

I hate to admit to being this lazy, but this is a system I have used with my daughter. If I am in the front of the house and I knew she needed to be out of the house at a given time, I would call her cell to make sure she was awake. There have been plenty of times she didn't catch it before it went to VM or maybe she was just being a teenager and didn't feel like hearing mom ask if she was up!

LCoastMom
12-10-2008, 11:09 PM
Hey Bella,

Unfortunately, there are a lot of loose threads hanging around. Check out this post (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3033912&postcount=94). I think you will find that the computer forensic evidence does place Casey at her parent's home the evening of the 15th / morning of the 16th.

Hi JWG

That is an interesting post, if I am reading correctly GA left for work, KC returned almost immediately and promptly signed back on, losing all thought of her baby for about an hour. That would work if whatever happened to Caylee were an accident. A lot could have happened in an hour.

Any knowledge as to what she was actually using the computer for in this time frame? How would this effect the intentional death views? Or possibly KC did something to Caylee just before logging on, then KC used the computer as a means of distraction as she waited for Caylee to take her last breath. (That was incredibly hard to get out). How could she...

CASuzk
12-16-2008, 11:10 AM
June 16 : GA said he saw KC and Caylee leave the house at 1 p.m. KC was going to "work" and to drop Caylee at the babysitter, presumably Zenida G's apt.

According to detective P, cell records show they did not go far. Casey's cell phone communicated that afternoon through the same three cell towers she could reach from her home, so where was she? Was she down the street in her car or in the woods?

At 1 p.m., CK made a 14-minute call to her boyfriend, T. L. At 1:44 p.m., she made a 36-minute call to A.H.. At 2:52 p.m., there was an 11-minute call with ex-fiance J. G.. All of the calls used cell towers that can be reached from her parents' home.

4:11 p.m., KC to reach CA, making four attempts in two minutes, according to records. KC then traveled north from her parents' home and called T.L for one minute at 4:19 p.m. Two minutes later, she talked to J.G. for a minute, and tried to call her mother again at 4:25 p.m.

frenchvixen
12-16-2008, 11:22 AM
Being that GA had originally said that he last saw Caylee on June 9th, how do we really know that this is true (that he saw them leave on June 16th)? Let's say it is true. Then KC had to have come back to the house after GA left and killed Caylee. She had a huge fight with her mom the night before and had run out of money and people to steal from. She was probably making phone calls to AH to see how much more scheming/stealing she can get away with. Then she realized that the "root" of her problem was Caylee. KC didn't really need that much money to survive on her own. She could bum at her b/f's house.. eat scraps and live very easy on very little amount of money. But with Caylee, it was a different story. She had to either rely on her mother or work. She clearly didn't want to work and it's expensive to have a toddler. After that fight with her mother, her pride got the best of her and she decided to do Caylee in. She had already been thinking or fantasizing about it anywas. So, it became a reality.

suspicious1
12-16-2008, 05:46 PM
I really do think GA was being truthful when he said he last saw them on the 16th. I say this because in the beginning GA was fully cooperating with law enforcement even as far as going behind CA back to speak to them. I don't think he was covering for his daughter but of course I could be wrong.