View Full Version : Theories on what may have happened to Benjaman Kyle
cacnotcam
10-17-2008, 02:42 PM
I know that we have the general discussions but as pointed out by a fellow ws'er, we don't have a thread for theories on what may have happened.
I really have none right now. My brain is fried. Maybe I will come up with some later.
Any thoughts?
Julessleuther
10-17-2008, 04:57 PM
Car accident? Maybe he was in an accident and disoriented, and walked from the accident location and then collapsed by the Burger King? If he walked a distance, he could have gotten sunburned. Do we have an EXACT address of the Burger King? I would love to see the topography of the area where he was found.
I honestly believe he went through some sort of trauma that affected his family as well. Perhaps his family is deceased and he is the sole survivor.
Didn't I see somewhere in this forum that the psychologist said his amnesia is psychologically based, not based off of some kind of brain trauma or anything? If so, in my opinion that means his brain is pushing out the things that happened... maybe even his wife and children that he may have had before the traumatic incident occurred.
This is all speculation... but that's what I think.
If he was dumped behind that dumpster after the event, then that's why he might have been found there. Perhaps whoever dumped him there didn't want him identified, so they stripped him of all clothing and belongings and left him there to die.
Julessleuther
10-17-2008, 05:12 PM
OK, I found the Burger King. I do not know how to post google earth, but those that have it, here are the coordinates:
Latitude: 31°55'35.05"N
Longitude: 81°19'59.82"W
This looks like a residential area, but is RIGHT off Rt 95, which is a major highway!
cacnotcam
10-17-2008, 05:25 PM
Car accident? Maybe he was in an accident and disoriented, and walked from the accident location and then collapsed by the Burger King? If he walked a distance, he could have gotten sunburned. Do we have an EXACT address of the Burger King? I would love to see the topography of the area where he was found.
That could be BUT he was found naked and beaten!! So maybe he was disoriented then got mugged! Boy, that would be just a bad day! Car wreck then mugging and being left for dead! LOL!!
cacnotcam
10-17-2008, 05:26 PM
I honestly believe he went through some sort of trauma that affected his family as well. Perhaps his family is deceased and he is the sole survivor.
Didn't I see somewhere in this forum that the psychologist said his amnesia is psychologically based, not based off of some kind of brain trauma or anything? If so, in my opinion that means his brain is pushing out the things that happened... maybe even his wife and children that he may have had before the traumatic incident occurred.
This is all speculation... but that's what I think.
If he was dumped behind that dumpster after the event, then that's why he might have been found there. Perhaps whoever dumped him there didn't want him identified, so they stripped him of all clothing and belongings and left him there to die.
See, this is kind of what I think. I think maybe he went away for a trip or some other reason and got attacked, which brought on the amnesia. But I think he has some deeper trauma in his life than just the attack. I think that is just what set it off. Make sense?
cacnotcam
10-17-2008, 05:27 PM
OK, I found the Burger King. I do not know how to post google earth, but those that have it, here are the coordinates:
Latitude: 31°55'35.05"N
Longitude: 81°19'59.82"W
This looks like a residential area, but is RIGHT off Rt 95, which is a major highway!
I will look more when I get home. I'm off to bowling! Thanks for your input so far guys! I'm hoping that maybe one of our theories may end up helping in some way. Ya never know!
See, this is kind of what I think. I think maybe he went away for a trip or some other reason and got attacked, which brought on the amnesia. But I think he has some deeper trauma in his life than just the attack. I think that is just what set it off. Make sense?
I agree. Didn't he say that he wanted to get to the ocean? Maybe his family and him were going on vacation to the ocean, got hijacked or something along the way, and the attackers rid him of is wife and children and then dumped him off the highway at the Burger King where he was found after awhile.
I'm sort of afraid for Benjaman. No one knows what is lurking in his past and it may not be something that would be exactly good to remember, kwim?
Tracie5
10-17-2008, 05:55 PM
Hurricane Charley hit Florida on Aug 13, 2004. Does anybody know if there is a list of the people missing from this storm? Just a possibility?
shadowangel
10-17-2008, 06:23 PM
My thought was that it was water-related...As I recall, not only is this BK near I-95, it also appears to be near a canal or waterway. Maybe a boating accident? Sunlight reflecting on water could have affected his eyes, and if he were dazed and disoriented he may have undressed himself to get out of his soaked clothing.
Just tossing some thoughts out there.
bluestarzz
10-17-2008, 06:31 PM
i think he has had some painful things happen in his life = death of parents....perhaps child.
i keep wondering if someone had him declaired dead and is living off of his assets and insurance money.
bluestarzz
Boyz_Mum
10-17-2008, 06:51 PM
With the memory of the ocean, I wonder if he was on a business trip or vacation. Ocean vacations near Richmond Hill, GA are Hilton Head Island, SC, St. Simon's Island, GA- both are just over/about an hour from where BK was found. Hilton Head seems to be a place for conventions, both islands seem to be heavy on golf. I don't know if BK could be a golfer with his surgical marks that are reported? I've looked for people missing from these two areas and am not having much luck. Could he have been targeted for robbery while in a beachside community and dropped over an hour away?
angelwngs
10-17-2008, 08:00 PM
If he had blinding cataracts requiring surgery soon after he was found, he most likely was not legally able to drive a car or a boat.
Boyz_Mum
10-17-2008, 09:36 PM
If he had blinding cataracts requiring surgery soon after he was found, he most likely was not legally able to drive a car or a boat.
Good point!
Is his estimated age young to have cataracts?
Weren't his cataracts from prolonged sun exposure? It is possible he may have been in a coma-like state for awhile with open eyes, causing the cataracts? I would like to see how the dumpster was laid out at that Burger King... to see if he would have been back there for awhile without being noticed. Someone dumped him there, in my opinion. I don't think he wandered there and stripped off his clothes. And he had fire ant bites which means to me that he had been there (or somewhere) awhile.
Someone knows what happened to him, but I think that it's a criminal who will never come forward about his identity because I bet they don't know it... they just know the crime they committed against him.
Tracie5
10-18-2008, 12:44 AM
A little research on cataracts and the possible causes/increased risk factors -
Cataract development is usually a very gradual process of normal aging but can occasionally occur rapidly.
Rarely, cataracts can present at birth or in early childhood as a result of hereditary enzyme defects, and severe trauma to the eye, eye surgery, or intraocular inflammation can also cause cataracts to occur earlier in life. Other factors that may lead to development of cataracts at an earlier age include excessive ultraviolet-light exposure, diabetes, smoking, or the use of certain medications, such as oral, topical, or inhaled steroids. Other medications that are more weakly associated with cataracts include the long-term use of statins and phenothiazines.
There is an even more specific change that occasionally happens, when the opacity develops immediately next to the lens capsule, either by the anterior, or more commonly the posterior, portion of the capsule; these are called subcapsular cataracts. Unlike most cataracts, posterior subcapsular cataracts can develop rather quickly and affect vision more suddenly than either nuclear or cortical cataracts.
• The closer people live to the equator the greater the chance for cataracts. As suggested by a study in Southern France, sunlight exposure in these climates also increases the risk for severe cortical or mixed cataracts. In this study, even wearing sunglasses did not reduce the risk for these cataracts, although it did for posterior subcapsular cataracts.
• People whose jobs expose them to sunlight for prolonged periods are at higher risk. People in Southern climates whose occupations, such as fishing or oyster farming, exposed them to very intense sunlight were at high risk for all cataracts, including posterior subcapsular cataracts. (People in more Northern climates with similar occupations may not have as high a risk.)
• Occupational exposure to very intense artificial light, such as arc welding, increases the risk for cataracts.
Long-term environmental lead exposure may increase the risk of developing cataracts
Smoking
Heavy alcohol usage
Other conditions that can trigger the process leading to cataracts include:
• Physical injury to the eye (such as a hard blow, cut, or puncture)
• Chemical burns
• Electrical shock injuries
• Chronic exposure to intense heat or cold
Exposure to cosmic radiation (airline pilots, astronauts)
cacnotcam
10-18-2008, 03:33 AM
I believe that BK's cataracts are an affect of his exposure to the sun from his accident.....(attack.) Hands down.
Tracie5
10-18-2008, 04:55 AM
I believe that BK's cataracts are an affect of his exposure to the sun from his accident.....(attack.) Hands down.
I think the same. See the second paragraph of my post on cataracts re postier subcapsular cataracts and the second bullet point on exposure to sunlight. This does make it seem very possible.
It also seems that the doctor that performed his cataract surgery would know what type of cataracts he had.
Patty G
10-18-2008, 10:40 AM
This is not a theory just need to get this posted and out of my head!
BK's parents probably in their 80's and may/may not be alive
BK probably has no siblings or if BK does, they might be estranged.
BK may have children and are estranged or never had children
BK may have a girlfriend or wife or never had either.
BK may not even be from the USA; maybe Canada.
BK may have had an apartment; eventually the owner would have filed for eviction
BK may have had a home; eventually the bank would have foreclosed on the house.
BK had neighbors either living in an apartment or home next to BK
BK must of worked, either for someone or had his own business. Either way, BK not showing up at his job or business would have set off a red flag either with his employess or his supervisor
BK may have had credit cards and accounts are now in default.
BK may have had a phone which is now turned off.
BK had mail delivery; post office would have noticed excessive mail piling up.
BK didn't file his 2004 taxes and perhaps IRS has flagged him and sending out notices for not paying his taxes.
BK is too young at the time he went missing for Socail Security but he could have been on Social Security Disability. Checks could have been mailed to him or direct deposit.
BK could have owned a car and it is still out there somewhere. Unless he couldn't drive due to his eye-sight.
BK could have flown to Atlanta late August 2004 with a return ticket back to his destination and the ticket was never used.
BK could have rented a car, and the rent-a-car is now stolen.
BK's concern about his SS card indicates to me he had high "working ethics".
BK could have walked away from everything years ago, leaving no trail of employment, home, etc.
If BK had seen a traumatic event or was involved in a traumatic event with regards to his family, LE would be looking for BK.
BK needs to get on the Today Show, Good Morning America, Early Show and Oprah.
BeavisMom62
10-18-2008, 12:56 PM
With the memory of the ocean, I wonder if he was on a business trip or vacation. Ocean vacations near Richmond Hill, GA are Hilton Head Island, SC, St. Simon's Island, GA- both are just over/about an hour from where BK was found. Hilton Head seems to be a place for conventions, both islands seem to be heavy on golf. I don't know if BK could be a golfer with his surgical marks that are reported? I've looked for people missing from these two areas and am not having much luck. Could he have been targeted for robbery while in a beachside community and dropped over an hour away?
Those are good thoughts Boyz. I also posted on the Dr. Phil thread, that I used to live in Savannah and Richmond Hill wasn't far away, but in addition to St. Simons and Hilton Head, which are quite aways away, if you lived in Savannah or Richmond Hill and wanted to go to the beach, you would go to Tybee Island, which is alot closer. (O/T Nasty water there, its all brownish green. When I moved from GA to FL, I couldn't believe the difference in the ocean water. Here in FL its greenish blue).
Boyz_Mum
10-18-2008, 02:05 PM
Those are good thoughts Boyz. I also posted on the Dr. Phil thread, that I used to live in Savannah and Richmond Hill wasn't far away, but in addition to St. Simons and Hilton Head, which are quite aways away, if you lived in Savannah or Richmond Hill and wanted to go to the beach, you would go to Tybee Island, which is alot closer. (O/T Nasty water there, its all brownish green. When I moved from GA to FL, I couldn't believe the difference in the ocean water. Here in FL its greenish blue).
Thanks for telling some information about the different destinations nearby. I looked all over the web for missing businessmen, missing vacationers, etc... and didn't find anything that jumped out at me. Is there an airport in Savannah?
BK's story is intriguing, that's for sure!
Voice4theSilent
10-18-2008, 06:46 PM
I posted this on another thread and thought I would post here, as well....
Do we know, when he was found behind the dumpster, if his hair was short or long? If he was clean or dirty? If he was abnormally thin or a bit over weight? If he had an overgrown beard and/or mustache? If a clean cut business man in town on a business trip is beaten and left next to a dumpster I believe the first responders would not have mistaken him for a homeless man (regardless of him being naked, covered in fire ant bites, etc.) If he had many stereotypical characteristics of a man living on the streets (long unkept hair, long beard, unclean, etc.) than I tend to believe they would. Unfortunately there are some very, very intelligent people who end up homeless due to severe psychological problems. Amnesia caused by a "traumatic event" might qualify. He might have been a homeless man for years (?)
Some random thoughts....
(I also posted this on another thread, as well....)
If he was a single man, parents deceased and had been in the process of moving cities and jobs he wouldn't necessarily be missed if he didn't show up to a new apartment/new job as those things happen a lot and his old friends or acquaintences might not think it odd if they didn't hear from him, perhaps thinking he was too busy to stay in contact.
If he had an apartment where he was living and he was behind on the rent it wouldn't be unheard of for an apartment manager to assume the apartment was abandoned and auction his things or throw them away. I worked as a leasing agent at an apartment years and years ago as a teenager and people would skip out in the middle of the night and leave everything they owned. I thought it odd but I guess people do it quite frequently. His mail would be returned to the post office (which occurs all the time and pretty soon no more mail would come.) If he left his car at the airport it would have been towed and then auctioned by the tow yard (which occurs a lot in that business. Of course, they are more concerned with recouping their tow and store fee than worrying about why a car was abandoned.)
People abandon their jobs all of the time without a word to anyone. Most employers have something in their handbook about what constitutes job abandonment because it does occurs. If he didn't have a lot of very close friends at work, or had just switched jobs and wasn't really known too well, he might not have been missed if he just didn't show back to work again.
What type of traumatic event would cause such an amnesia to occur in a 50-60 year old man? I imagine it would have to be more than just the death of a parent. Since his memory is of when he was a lot younger, perhaps the traumatic event occured then and he has been homeless for 20-30 years since the amnesia hit and this occurance may have "snapped him out of it" to some extent (don't even know if something like that is possible...?)
Has he asked the doctor that did his surgery on his eyes about the type of cataracts he had? IMHO Finding that out is crucial. From what I understand he was behind the dumpster for less than 24 hours and maybe even 12 or less (?) as there was some mention in the Dr. Phil show that he couldn't have been there very long as the previous manager would have found him when he took the trash out earier. Seems to me to be a pretty easy phone call to make and might shed a lot of light on his situation. (Frustrating to have so little information to go on!) If they were progressive and not from the Burger King incident or something that had occured relatively close to the Burger King incident than I think he was more than likely homeless (other people have pointed out that he could have/ would have gotten the surgery to correct it if he was a functioning person in society, which I tend to agree with them on.)
Is there any more information than the tiny little bit we have here? Police report? medical report of injuries he had when treated the first day? Picture of him from closer to the time he was found?
BeavisMom62
10-18-2008, 06:53 PM
Thanks for telling some information about the different destinations nearby. I looked all over the web for missing businessmen, missing vacationers, etc... and didn't find anything that jumped out at me. Is there an airport in Savannah?
BK's story is intriguing, that's for sure!
You know for the life of me I can't remember?! I'm pretty sure there is, but I can't picture it in my head. It probably wouldn't have anything to do with BK, but there is an airfield, which is military. I was stationed there, Hunter Army Airfield, which is where the Airborne soldiers train (I wasn't airborne, I was a medic). I wasl also stationed at a sister military base, Fort Stewart, in Hinesville GA, which is about an hour away. IIRC, Richmond Hill is between Savannah and Hinesville.
fox1950
10-19-2008, 01:18 AM
I feel that there are those out there that suspect they know BK but for some unknown reason will not come forward. I can not convince myself that someone watching the show did not see some similaries to some one they haven't seen in a long time or who is missing.
I think 48 mysteries should do the case to get more media exposure. BK just didn't fall out of the sky.
Bk had a life before this. It should have had co-workers, friends, family, distant relatives, prior school mates, neighbors, prior landlords, etc. On an hour long show someone watching should have suspected him of being someone they knew once upon a time even if his looks have changed.
I think someone is not coming forward.
believe09
10-19-2008, 10:06 AM
I feel that there are those out there that suspect they know BK but for some unknown reason will not come forward. I can not convince myself that someone watching the show did not see some similaries to some one they haven't seen in a long time or who is missing.
I think 48 mysteries should do the case to get more media exposure. BK just didn't fall out of the sky.
Bk had a life before this. It should have had co-workers, friends, family, distant relatives, prior school mates, neighbors, prior landlords, etc. On an hour long show someone watching should have suspected him of being someone they knew once upon a time even if his looks have changed.
I think someone is not coming forward.
The question is why...
Summing up some of this discussion- it is very possible that Mr. Kyle does not have a large extended family that is close knit for sure, because he would have been looked for by now.
He thinks he has brothers perhaps-but he is somewhat of a loner...independent and self sufficient is how he feels. What kinds of attachments would he form as an adult if he was reasonably mobile in his job and preferred to be somewhat solitary?
But I so agree that there are coworkers and acquaintances out there who are saying "Hm I wonder where XYZ went off too..." or an employer...or clients.
Someone must have known that Benjaman traveled from potentially Denver or the surrounding area to Savannah or the surrounding area to look at the beach. If that was indeed a destination, and not an offshoot of a business trip.
One of the theories some of us worked on was that he was a hurricane victim from FL who was running from the storms-I believe Bonnie and Charley hit within 24 hours of one another in August of that year. There are still people missing from that onslaught-I was unsuccessful in getting a list from the Red Cross of anyone who was listed as missing however. The devestation was TERRIBLE in FL and lets say for example BK was one of the ones who lived in Punta Gorda (IIRC)-the trauma of the storms and being subsequently assaulted might cause amnesia in anyone!!!
That being said, his statement on Dr Phil about looking for the ocean, which is common from someone being raised or living in the landlocked west, right, would remove the above theory from being possible???
BeavisMom62
10-19-2008, 12:30 PM
"He thinks he has brothers perhaps-but he is somewhat of a loner...independent and self sufficient is how he feels. What kinds of attachments would he form as an adult if he was reasonably mobile in his job and preferred to be somewhat solitary?"
I don't think that this has anything to do with BK, but your statement reminds me of my son. He is a loner and prefers to be solitary and is mobile in his job. He is a truck driver! I don't think that this is anywhere in BK's memories, though, huh? But it would fit.
believe09
10-19-2008, 12:48 PM
"He thinks he has brothers perhaps-but he is somewhat of a loner...independent and self sufficient is how he feels. What kinds of attachments would he form as an adult if he was reasonably mobile in his job and preferred to be somewhat solitary?"
I don't think that this has anything to do with BK, but your statement reminds me of my son. He is a loner and prefers to be solitary and is mobile in his job. He is a truck driver! I don't think that this is anywhere in BK's memories, though, huh? But it would fit.
You are right-it would. Any independent truckers out there who can tell us if, let's say for example, you owned your own rig and contracted jobs, who would notice you if you went missing outside of family??
SeekingJana
10-19-2008, 01:48 PM
I came away from watching Dr Phil with impressions.. and more questions than I did have..
I find it unusual that BK has memories relating to childhood, but the issue of his adult memories was not really touched upon, IMO. I wonder if he was extremely resistant to discussing his adult life, or if the therapist in Atlanta discouraged this on air? I suspect both play into the lack of discussion about what his life may have been up until the day he was found in Savannah. I believe he does have impressions and some fragments of memories. They may be extremely uncomfortable for him at this time.
If he remembers things from childhood, it is not hard to imagine that with the right type of guided therapy, he will remember his adulthood. Things which matter, not a statement about wanting to visit the coast.
If he does not have amnesia caused by brain trauma, which is what the experts are saying based not only on his brain scans, but also on cognitive function tests, then I believe them.
He is repressing memories, which is a very strong defense mechanism.
As they touched upon on the Dr. Phil show, the ability to remember is intact. BK is not consciously using the memory area of his brain for a reason. The reason is unknown, but probably relates to a series of EMOTIONAL traumas, having nothing to do with the condition in which he was found.
He has the memories, and when he feels comfortable and secure enough with ONE experienced therapist, the memories will be unlocked. He has to find security and safety again in his emotional self and find one person to trust with his truths, then he can recover his memories without fear.
I believe that Dr. Phil probably does have a therapist in Atlanta lined up for BK. I believe that he will have his own answers when he is ready emotionally to accept his own truths.
Whether we ever know or not is unknown. The man has a right to privacy about his life and his circumstances.
I hope most of all that he will find someone from his life before he left it who will love him, and welcome him back, and also be intelligent and sensitive enough to gradually help him back into the life he left, if that is where he wants to be and stay.
If he does not want to resume the life he left, then I hope there are resources available to him for rebuilding a new life for himself in the place of his choice, as long as he has full memory recovery and can move on, and not look back.
Maria
Julessleuther
10-19-2008, 02:21 PM
I do not know why I did not think of this before, but the comments made about him being a loner and mobile made me think of this...
My sisters boyfriends father is a truck driver. He travels all the time, all over the country. Four years ago he was stopped at a truck stop in TX, and was heading back toward his truck. He crossed a lane of truck traffic, and in his words "out of nowhere" this truck came plowing down the road fast. The truck hit him, he was dragged about 75 feet until the truck stopped. The trauma of the accident and the head injuries he sustained caused him to have amnesia, and he was in a hospital for three weeks until our family found him. He had selective memories, but did not remember his wife, daughter, son etc. He remembered traveling and being on the road and could recall places he had been, but not his home. When he saw his wife, he did not recognize her, but slowly began to regain his memories. I know that Believe said his injuries were caused by a beating, and I wonder if maybe he had been a truck driver, who for some reason was beaten up, and then transported elsewhere and then dumped? Maybe his abandoned truck is elsewhere, not even in the Savannah area? Maybe his memories of going to the ocean were to Florida, N. or S. Carolina, etc ---other coastal areas? Believe, is there any indication of his sexual preference? Not to offend, but if he were gay, he might probably have a greater chance of being beat up.
SeekingJana
10-19-2008, 02:21 PM
As far as theories relating to who he was and what his life was before he was found, I believe that:
He had a fairly traditional upbringing. Perhaps even some military service.
I believe he does have siblings. Maybe they have reason to believe he is dead.
We don't know.
I believe he is the type of person who would have business associates and friends. I believe he is from Indiana, but may not have lived there for some years. I think he has a professional degree relating to his lifelong profession. I have always thought that he might be an engineer of some type, either electrical, mechanical, or other. College graduate, likely.
I agree that he is concerned with having a high standard of independent living and does not want to live off the largesse of others. This speaks to his long term sense of independence and self- reliance. IOW, he was not a streetwalking homeless person, IMO. Never.
I draw a complete blank with regards to a family of his own, and this is unusual for me. I do not have ANY impressions as to whether he was ever married, was married at the time of his disappearance, has ever been a father, or is even heterosexual in orientation, to be honest.
I have wondered MANY times if maybe the beating was a hate crime because he is gay and maybe approached the wrong man. I keep having a strong feeling that he may be gay. (Please don't hate me for saying this as I mean NO disrespect to BK). I have lived fairly near Savannah, and I understand that there is a type of Southern male who would beat the snot out of someone who propositioned them for sex, even obliquely. It is wrong, of course, but it exists.
I am saying what some of you may have thought and not said.
I think the idea that he was involved in a natural disaster like the hurricanes makes a great deal of sense and I hope it is explored. I find it very " comfortable" to think that he was in Florida and traveled north to Savannah, either alone or with the wrong people out of need, such as an emergency hurricane evacuation. Maybe his car broke down and he accepted a ride with the absolute wrong people. We just don't know yet.
A Floridian who lives on or near the coast usually has a deep deep love for the ocean. It matters not how often one sees it. He may be explaining his love for the water and the sea by saying that's why he was in Savannah. "Filling in the blanks" with something he knows to be true- that he loves the ocean.
As I recall from being there years ago, Savannah isn't really known for being a premiere beach town. This may have changed. Savannah is rich in history, and it is a beautiful old town worth exploring for its history.
But, it is not where I would go if I wanted to see the ocean, even if I was a landlocked resident of say, Atlanta, as I think BK may have been. I would go to Amelia Island or Fernandina Beach, which would be about the same distance away as Savannah.
Last thought, the I 95 corridor is familiar to many of us who have lived on the East Coast. It has been notorious for criminal activity in the past. It is also a major route out of FL. There were elements of Benjaman's speech which made me think quite a lot of a transplanted Floridian. I can't explain it, but I know it when I hear it.
SeekingJana
10-19-2008, 02:27 PM
I do not know why I did not think of this before, but the comments made about him being a loner and mobile made me think of this...
My sisters boyfriends father is a truck driver. He travels all the time, all over the country. Four years ago he was stopped at a truck stop in TX, and was heading back toward his truck. He crossed a lane of truck traffic, and in his words "out of nowhere" this truck came plowing down the road fast. The truck hit him, he was dragged about 75 feet until the truck stopped. The trauma of the accident and the head injuries he sustained caused him to have amnesia, and he was in a hospital for three weeks until our family found him. He had selective memories, but did not remember his wife, daughter, son etc. He remembered traveling and being on the road and could recall places he had been, but not his home. When he saw his wife, he did not recognize her, but slowly began to regain his memories. I know that Believe said his injuries were caused by a beating, and I wonder if maybe he had been a truck driver, who for some reason was beaten up, and then transported elsewhere and then dumped? Maybe his abandoned truck is elsewhere, not even in the Savannah area? Maybe his memories of going to the ocean were to Florida, N. or S. Carolina, etc ---other coastal areas? Believe, is there any indication of his sexual preference? Not to offend, but if he were gay, he might probably have a greater chance of being beat up.
Oh man, we posted the same questions about his sexual preference at the same time, Jules.
I have been dying to say this and coudn't find a respectful enough way to ask or say it, but you and I did at the exact same time.
Do you have any psychic abilities that you know of? Just wondering, because I get a strong negative feeling about his having a family as in wife, children, etc.
SeriouslySearching
10-19-2008, 02:49 PM
I don't feel he is gay. Never have gotten any kind of impression such as that either. While it is true only he could answer such an inquiry, I only have my instincts to rely on for this matter.
SeekingJana
10-19-2008, 03:19 PM
I don't get a strong sense of him being interested in finding A FAMILY. As in wife, children, etc.. Maybe that's what I am picking up on more than anything.
I have never heard or read of him asking or wondering ANYTHING related to a family of his own, with him the head of the household.
Maybe that's the anomaly I am registering more than any overt gay issues. If so, I apologize.
SeriouslySearching
10-19-2008, 03:29 PM
I am sure he has wondered about having a family repeatedly. It is probably one of the most difficult and painful issues for him to ponder so could be why it hasn't been discussed out in the open. It could also be one of the last things he will recall if he ever starts to resurface memories, too. It would carry with it the largest amount of emotion, imo.
Julessleuther
10-20-2008, 12:56 AM
I am sure you are right, if he does not remember them, but inwordly feels he may have someone, it is probably very painful to talk about.
O/T I am guessing he was quite good looking when he was younger, as he is very handsome even now as an older man. He seems so sweet and nice. I really hope we can find his family, whoever and whereever they may be...
I am sure he has wondered about having a family repeatedly. It is probably one of the most difficult and painful issues for him to ponder so could be why it hasn't been discussed out in the open. It could also be one of the last things he will recall if he ever starts to resurface memories, too. It would carry with it the largest amount of emotion, imo.
MissieMt
10-20-2008, 01:12 PM
I'm not convinced of this theory, just tossing out other avenues to explore:
Were there any fires that resulted in a family dying in the areas where he believes he was, or even in GA? Perhaps he was presumed deceased in a fire, where his family did die? Maybe the trauma of said fire was enough to make him suppress his memories and flee the area?
Once again, just tossing out ideas. I just can't figure out why else his family wouldn't be looking for him.
believe09
10-20-2008, 05:02 PM
I do not know why I did not think of this before, but the comments made about him being a loner and mobile made me think of this...
My sisters boyfriends father is a truck driver. He travels all the time, all over the country. Four years ago he was stopped at a truck stop in TX, and was heading back toward his truck. He crossed a lane of truck traffic, and in his words "out of nowhere" this truck came plowing down the road fast. The truck hit him, he was dragged about 75 feet until the truck stopped. The trauma of the accident and the head injuries he sustained caused him to have amnesia, and he was in a hospital for three weeks until our family found him. He had selective memories, but did not remember his wife, daughter, son etc. He remembered traveling and being on the road and could recall places he had been, but not his home. When he saw his wife, he did not recognize her, but slowly began to regain his memories. I know that Believe said his injuries were caused by a beating, and I wonder if maybe he had been a truck driver, who for some reason was beaten up, and then transported elsewhere and then dumped? Maybe his abandoned truck is elsewhere, not even in the Savannah area? Maybe his memories of going to the ocean were to Florida, N. or S. Carolina, etc ---other coastal areas? Believe, is there any indication of his sexual preference? Not to offend, but if he were gay, he might probably have a greater chance of being beat up.
Hi Jules-I like much of your theory. I will just ask him about whether or not he thinks he can drive a rig-excellent stuff brought up by you and BM.
His sexual preference has never been a subject of discussion between us or me and his care givers. I never gave it much relevance, but it may have been short sighted of me given the context you state. I have spoken with him about children in general and never got the impression that he was very warm and fuzzy about them-I would never assume however that this meant he had none....I think that amnesia is sufficiently unknown enough or rare enough that it is difficult to imagine that you might not take on a persona that could be other than your "normal" self...although I do not know much about it, I could see that on some level you have been set free of a previous life and if part of that were due to emotional trauma than it makes even more sense to me that you might reject certain previous aspects of yourself.
Mr. Kyle is charming and engaging over the phone with a quick wit-although I just have my own impressions to judge by I think he has some affection for females beyond having to rely on a whole lot of them to propel him forward in his journey! :rolleyes:
I will get back to you about the "big rig" stuff...
LoLo321
10-20-2008, 05:44 PM
Hi everybody. I am brand new here. I have read here from time to time and followed some cases, but have just joined today. Guess I'm a late bloomer. :)
I had never heard of Benjaman Kyle before the Dr Phil show last week. I am so glad his story has received some national coverage after all this time. I have no doubt you guys had a big hand in that. I have not read everything here about this case, but enough to be very impressed with all your efforts on behalf of BK.:clap:
MissieMt, I was very intrigued by your theory regarding a fire. I'm not sure what my theory is yet, but after reading your idea, I did a google search and came up with the following:
http://orig.courier-journal.com/localnews/2004/08/21ky/B1-fire08210-5396.html
The date of the fire is August 21, 2004 in Bullitt, KY. It sounds like everyone who was supposed to be in the house was recovered, but you never know.
It's probably nothing, but the date of the fire as well as the area intrigued me.
Julessleuther
10-20-2008, 08:58 PM
Good idea, I wonder if a fire would cause cataracts?
I'm not convinced of this theory, just tossing out other avenues to explore:
Were there any fires that resulted in a family dying in the areas where he believes he was, or even in GA? Perhaps he was presumed deceased in a fire, where his family did die? Maybe the trauma of said fire was enough to make him suppress his memories and flee the area?
Once again, just tossing out ideas. I just can't figure out why else his family wouldn't be looking for him.
LoLo321
10-20-2008, 09:45 PM
I thought that as well about the cataracts and especially the raspy voice. I have always heard smoke inhalation can cause damage to the throat.
Voice4theSilent
10-21-2008, 01:32 AM
For what it is worth....I have been told that it would be extremely rare (and inprobable) for someone to be declared dead in a fire without any remains (i.e complete dental and bones.) I asked if a few teeth would be sufficient in a car or a house (I read somewhere that BK was missing a few...maybe 4?... top teeth and it was unknown if they were lost at the Burger King or prior) and was told it would be highly unlikely.
RainbowsAndGumdrops
10-21-2008, 10:24 AM
So I was pondering why noone will step forward and say that they know him. Was this a hired hit by novices? Could it be that the people that know him don't want to be identified?
Cubby
10-21-2008, 11:13 AM
Thoughts.... I don't know exactly what I think regarding a theory. My only thoughts are at the time Mr. Kyle was going through some type of transistion in his life, for which his family, friends, peers, coworkers might have thought he simply decided to stay put where he was at. His sexuality is of no importance, imo... nor is his lack of comments on the possibility of a family. What is important are his recollections, memories, work ethic. He said something about "I have no country" when commenting on the show regarding getting a SS number *if* he were to claim illegal alien status. That leads me to think his parents were born in the 20's. He may have been a late life child with older parents...
IMO, he may not have faced a loss, but was rather looking to make a change of some sort which he thought long and hard about before making that decision. Especially with his work ethics. IMO, his comment about "went to see the ocean", in my mind represents taking a long hard look out into the beyond... and that is how I have come to my conclusion. Maybe after caring for his parents and losing them, or making a difficult decision to put them into nursing care. IMO, digging through his few memories is what will solves this case, along with the national attention which he was so blessed to receive from Dr Phil's show. So very many would hope for a few min of attention, and he was blessed with an hour almost exclusively.
One last thought... and this is really not relevent to his identification, other than to say he is a hot hot hottie! ;).... ( late night Disney channel). He is very handsome... he has beautiful eyes... and it is very easy to see his good looks.. He is aging gracefully... I hope he is reading this and knows many of us females here, who are about 15-20 years younger than his estimated age think he is one fine looking man. On that note, I have to say this because it is driving me nuts! BK, can we ask you please comb your hair straight back? I mean no disrespect by that, but I think that side part makes you look older than you really are.
Bk, if you read this, it is sooo easy to vision your face at a younger age... I see it more in my mind than the age regressed pictures. I vision you as a blonde child... who went darker in your teenage years. Your smile- your cheeks and chin are almost identical to my son and his father... My sons father is of English descent... 100% though several generations later. Have you considered doing the ancestry DNA test? It might be worth a shot...
In BK's face, I do not see evidence of a 'rough' life which would have aged him beyond his years due to stress, drug or alcohol abuse... I see a man who is blessed with the grace of looking younger than his years... but some age evidence possibly due to wt. changes...
BK, if you read this... you have a face like my dads... my dad is pushing 70 and for the last 30 years he has been mistaken for my sisters and I brother or boyfriend, Few with light hair, skin and blue eyes can be so blessed.
I am praying for you! :blowkiss: Keep your chin up, and we will get this mystery resolved.. hopefully sooner....
believe09
10-21-2008, 01:13 PM
You are awesome, Cubby!!! You, Christine and I can start the first official groupie fan site for Mr. Kyle, lol.
He has no recollection of driving a big rig but also pointed out that he has not really been given an opportunity to get into one lately. I am going to see if there is a way to see if he knows his way around the inside of one...we have a mod here who may have access to some of these vehicles...through work not because they have them parked behind their house, lol! Maybe we can set something up.
Thoughts.... I don't know exactly what I think regarding a theory. My only thoughts are at the time Mr. Kyle was going through some type of transistion in his life, for which his family, friends, peers, coworkers might have thought he simply decided to stay put where he was at. His sexuality is of no importance, imo... nor is his lack of comments on the possibility of a family. What is important are his recollections, memories, work ethic. He said something about "I have no country" when commenting on the show regarding getting a SS number *if* he were to claim illegal alien status. That leads me to think his parents were born in the 20's. He may have been a late life child with older parents...
IMO, he may not have faced a loss, but was rather looking to make a change of some sort which he thought long and hard about before making that decision. Especially with his work ethics. IMO, his comment about "went to see the ocean", in my mind represents taking a long hard look out into the beyond... and that is how I have come to my conclusion. Maybe after caring for his parents and losing them, or making a difficult decision to put them into nursing care. IMO, digging through his few memories is what will solves this case, along with the national attention which he was so blessed to receive from Dr Phil's show. So very many would hope for a few min of attention, and he was blessed with an hour almost exclusively.
One last thought... and this is really not relevent to his identification, other than to say he is a hot hot hottie! ;).... ( late night Disney channel). He is very handsome... he has beautiful eyes... and it is very easy to see his good looks.. He is aging gracefully... I hope he is reading this and knows many of us females here, who are about 15-20 years younger than his estimated age think he is one fine looking man. On that note, I have to say this because it is driving me nuts! BK, can we ask you please comb your hair straight back? I mean no disrespect by that, but I think that side part makes you look older than you really are.
Bk, if you read this, it is sooo easy to vision your face at a younger age... I see it more in my mind than the age regressed pictures. I vision you as a blonde child... who went darker in your teenage years. Your smile- your cheeks and chin are almost identical to my son and his father... My sons father is of English descent... 100% though several generations later. Have you considered doing the ancestry DNA test? It might be worth a shot...
In BK's face, I do not see evidence of a 'rough' life which would have aged him beyond his years due to stress, drug or alcohol abuse... I see a man who is blessed with the grace of looking younger than his years... but some age evidence possibly due to wt. changes...
BK, if you read this... you have a face like my dads... my dad is pushing 70 and for the last 30 years he has been mistaken for my sisters and I brother or boyfriend, Few with light hair, skin and blue eyes can be so blessed.
I am praying for you! :blowkiss: Keep your chin up, and we will get this mystery resolved.. hopefully sooner....
Boyz_Mum
10-21-2008, 03:27 PM
Has Mr Kyle ever mentioned memories of skiing? Are his scars/injuries consistent with skiing? The memories he has of Colorado just now made me think of skiing. Also, can a person develop cataracts from the snow glare? I know, dumb questions that probably have no answers, but I just can't stop thinking about him.
PS I agree that Mr Kyle has aged well! I wouldn't think he was a day over 45- he's handsome!
SeekingJana
10-21-2008, 07:10 PM
You are awesome, Cubby!!! You, Christine and I can start the first official groupie fan site for Mr. Kyle, lol.
Support has definitely been posted directly to BK in case he reads here in other threads, Believe and Cubby. I know in the Dr. Phil show thread, there are many personal posts of support to him. Also, there were before he appeared on the show.
I get the feeling that anger is being expressed because some of us have wondered why a middle aged adult would not discuss feelings or questions related to a family of his own, and wondered if the attack upon him might have been a hate crime. I do not have any prejudices against gays. I was stating that in some areas of the South, it would not be uncommon to be beaten ( or even perhaps killed) if a same- sex proposition occurred. I have known of it happening. It is tragic and senseless, but it is something we can discuss if we are kind about it. We do not know what BK thinks about his PERSONAL life. Nothing at all. Just impressions related to perhaps a job or a location of a job, and a few childhood memories.
This tells me that he is repressing the memories about his personal life the most, OR does not want them to be made public, which would possibly hinder his being ID'd.
Cubby and Believe, I can't speak for anyone else who questioned why he doesn't discuss questions related to an adult personal life, but I can tell you that I meant no disrespect in discussing aspects of possibilities. We come to WS, we discuss. I posted what I posted with sensitivity and respect. I feel that both of you are taking me to task because of my post.
Am I mis-reading what you both posted, or do you view posts with theories about his lifestyle to be somehow wrong? If so, I will be glad to delete mine.
I thought I was being sensitive and kind, but if it does not read that way to you, I had rather it not be online at all. :)
Thank you.
Maria
believe09
10-21-2008, 07:37 PM
I can't speak for Cubs, but free speech supports all kinds of questions, comments etc-in terms of his sexuality I have an opinion based on my experiences speaking with him. Cubby is stating her opinion regarding whether or not she thinks it is relevant-at least that is how I read it. I post as much as I can regarding my conversations with him as I can without breeching his privacy. I won't be asking him if he is gay, but that doesn't mean that it is a wrong question-I just don't think that he is. JMO. And BTW, you guys would be FLOORED at some of the requests strangers have made of this poor man-I think there are all kinds of ways to discover his identity without stripping him bare.
And I am not saying that any of you are stripping him bare-I will pass along the responses I receive when it is OK with him. But I don't send everything that is asked here-he reads here so he sees pretty much everything that is posted.... As to why anyone would be "angry" regarding what he chooses to discuss or not discuss...what is made public and what is not-well that is a headshaker for me because he does not know who is friend or foe-I mean for real. And he is a dignified private man-who can't be so that he can find out who he is...sigh.
:blowkiss:
Support has definitely been posted directly to BK in case he reads here in other threads, Believe and Cubby. I know in the Dr. Phil show thread, there are many personal posts of support to him. Also, there were before he appeared on the show.
I get the feeling that anger is being expressed because some of us have wondered why a middle aged adult would not discuss feelings or questions related to a family of his own, and wondered if the attack upon him might have been a hate crime. I do not have any prejudices against gays. I was stating that in some areas of the South, it would not be uncommon to be beaten ( or even perhaps killed) if a same- sex proposition occurred. I have known of it happening. It is tragic and senseless, but it is something we can discuss if we are kind about it. We do not know what BK thinks about his PERSONAL life. Nothing at all. Just impressions related to perhaps a job or a location of a job, and a few childhood memories.
This tells me that he is repressing the memories about his personal life the most, OR does not want them to be made public, which would possibly hinder his being ID'd.
Cubby and Believe, I can't speak for anyone else who questioned why he doesn't discuss questions related to an adult personal life, but I can tell you that I meant no disrespect in discussing aspects of possibilities. We come to WS, we discuss. I posted what I posted with sensitivity and respect. I feel that both of you are taking me to task because of my post.
Am I mis-reading what you both posted, or do you view posts with theories about his lifestyle to be somehow wrong? If so, I will be glad to delete mine.
I thought I was being sensitive and kind, but if it does not read that way to you, I had rather it not be online at all. :)
Thank you.
Maria
bluestarzz
10-21-2008, 09:16 PM
believe09, i appreciate you and your posts. i agree with your positions. i see that he wants to find out his past, but that doesn't mean that any question should be asked. but please, i am not trying to offend anyone by making that comment, just my comment is all, no judgement passed on anyone. benjaman has already gone a giant step by putting himself under the microscope by going on dr phil's.......that is a very large step on personal privacy.
bluestarzz
Julessleuther
10-22-2008, 12:06 AM
I guess I need to apologize. I was the one who made the initial inquiry, and it was most certainly NOT to offend, but to try and figure out why he was attacked. If we can figure out why he was attacked, maybe we have another clue to go on. I will not discuss this again, and I do apologize.
Voice4theSilent
10-22-2008, 12:22 AM
I guess I need to apologize. I was the one who made the initial inquiry, and it was most certainly NOT to offend, but to try and figure out why he was attacked. If we can figure out why he was attacked, maybe we have another clue to go on. I will not discuss this again, and I do apologize.
I honestly do not think you need to apologize (nor do I think anyone was upset at the question.) I think some have differing opinions on the relevance however your question was a very good one and your point was very valid. The thought had crossed my mind, and others I am sure. It may mean something...it may mean nothing....but at this point we have nothing so every theory/possibility/question, etc. is a good one to put out there. There is no shame in being gay and I don't think, given the circumstances, there is any apology necessary for posing the question. Your intent was not to upset anyone...which I am sure we can all realize, as we all are here to do whatever we can to try and help this man. Thank you! :blowkiss:
believe09
10-22-2008, 01:15 AM
I guess I need to apologize. I was the one who made the initial inquiry, and it was most certainly NOT to offend, but to try and figure out why he was attacked. If we can figure out why he was attacked, maybe we have another clue to go on. I will not discuss this again, and I do apologize.
Nope-I don't think it requires and apology, JMO. As Voice said there is no shame in being gay-it is a legitimate line of questioning and you just never, ever know what will shake this case open.
I just wanted you folks to understand my position...no harm.
Cubby
10-23-2008, 10:00 AM
Support has definitely been posted directly to BK in case he reads here in other threads, Believe and Cubby. I know in the Dr. Phil show thread, there are many personal posts of support to him. Also, there were before he appeared on the show.
I get the feeling that anger is being expressed because some of us have wondered why a middle aged adult would not discuss feelings or questions related to a family of his own, and wondered if the attack upon him might have been a hate crime. I do not have any prejudices against gays. I was stating that in some areas of the South, it would not be uncommon to be beaten ( or even perhaps killed) if a same- sex proposition occurred. I have known of it happening. It is tragic and senseless, but it is something we can discuss if we are kind about it. We do not know what BK thinks about his PERSONAL life. Nothing at all. Just impressions related to perhaps a job or a location of a job, and a few childhood memories.
This tells me that he is repressing the memories about his personal life the most, OR does not want them to be made public, which would possibly hinder his being ID'd.
Cubby and Believe, I can't speak for anyone else who questioned why he doesn't discuss questions related to an adult personal life, but I can tell you that I meant no disrespect in discussing aspects of possibilities. We come to WS, we discuss. I posted what I posted with sensitivity and respect. I feel that both of you are taking me to task because of my post.
Am I mis-reading what you both posted, or do you view posts with theories about his lifestyle to be somehow wrong? If so, I will be glad to delete mine.
I thought I was being sensitive and kind, but if it does not read that way to you, I had rather it not be online at all. :)
Thank you.
Maria
Maria,
I am sorry my post appeared to you the way it did. Beleive was right, they were my thoughts and opinions of my view only. Anyone is free to ask whatever questions or make any comments they like. I am unsure, honestly, as to how the attack, or reasons for attack might help with his identification, other than to find out where he was- where the attack happened and IF their were any witnesses to the crime.
I understand his not mentioning possiblities of family, for which he has no memories. I imagine they might be very painful, and if he is unsure I am certain he would not want to lead anyone on a wild goose chase.
I also would not imagine him even thinking of or contemplating getting involved with anyone now.. Especially with so much uncertainty in his life. So, some interests of his, he may simply not focus on because he has so much else to deal with right now.
I'm not always very good at expressing myself verbally, or in writing. I'm sorry if my post was misconstrued. It was not meant to be offensive to anyone else's thoughts or idea's. :blowkiss:
believe09
10-23-2008, 11:24 AM
Maria,
I am sorry my post appeared to you the way it did. Beleive was right, they were my thoughts and opinions of my view only. Anyone is free to ask whatever questions or make any comments they like. I am unsure, honestly, as to how the attack, or reasons for attack might help with his identification, other than to find out where he was- where the attack happened and IF their were any witnesses to the crime.
I understand his not mentioning possiblities of family, for which he has no memories. I imagine they might be very painful, and if he is unsure I am certain he would not want to lead anyone on a wild goose chase.
I also would not imagine him even thinking of or contemplating getting involved with anyone now.. Especially with so much uncertainty in his life. So, some interests of his, he may simply not focus on because he has so much else to deal with right now.
I'm not always very good at expressing myself verbally, or in writing. I'm sorry if my post was misconstrued. It was not meant to be offensive to anyone else's thoughts or idea's. :blowkiss:
You are always awesome and thoughtful, at least IMO Cubby...
Mark Franzeo
10-23-2008, 09:46 PM
What if BK lost a family member, son, brother etc in a war? The Iraq war was going on in 2004 and you could even consider Desert Storm since it started only 14 yrs before he was found. I wounder if anyone named Benjaman either a last name or first, was killed or MIA? Is there a easy way for a regular citizen to find out this info like a searchable database?
SieSie
10-23-2008, 11:58 PM
My thought was that it was water-related...As I recall, not only is this BK near I-95, it also appears to be near a canal or waterway. Maybe a boating accident? Sunlight reflecting on water could have affected his eyes, and if he were dazed and disoriented he may have undressed himself to get out of his soaked clothing.
Just tossing some thoughts out there.
Interesting thought about him undressing himself to get out of wet clothing, I hadn't ever thought of that possibility. I just always assumed someone took his clothing from him and I kept wondering what he could've been wearing that would've been able to identify him. After watching the Dr. Phil episode and hearing Benjaman mention remembering the Catholic church (as a child), my husband wondered if he had been a priest and his clothing could've ID'd him. :waitasec:
Voice4theSilent
10-24-2008, 12:08 AM
Interesting thought about him undressing himself to get out of wet clothing, I hadn't ever thought of that possibility. I just always assumed someone took his clothing from him and I kept wondering what he could've been wearing that would've been able to identify him. After watching the Dr. Phil episode and hearing Benjaman mention remembering the Catholic church (as a child), my husband wondered if he had been a priest and his clothing could've ID'd him. :waitasec:
Or a work uniform.
Goodbevins
10-28-2008, 10:18 AM
I just relocated from Richmond Hill. That Burger King is now closed but prior to that I ate there quite often.
The Savannah/ Hilton Head Airport is about 20 minutes from the Richmond Hill exit. As earlier stated, Burger King is maybe a quarter of a mile off of I-95.
Railroad tracks run right behind Burger King. (no more than 100 ft. away probably.) CSX freight trains share this track with Amtrak. There are a few sidings (holding areas for trains) near Richmond Hill. As far-fetched as this sounds, he could have been an Amtrak passenger that was assaulted then thrown from the train while it was in a siding. He could have then stumbled to Burger King where he collapsed behind the dumpster.
Like I said, farfetched but anything is a possibility at this point.
I would be more than happy to answer any specific questions re: Richmond Hill and the surrounding areas.
believe09
10-28-2008, 11:41 AM
I just relocated from Richmond Hill. That Burger King is now closed but prior to that I ate there quite often.
The Savannah/ Hilton Head Airport is about 20 minutes from the Richmond Hill exit. As earlier stated, Burger King is maybe a quarter of a mile off of I-95.
Railroad tracks run right behind Burger King. (no more than 100 ft. away probably.) CSX freight trains share this track with Amtrak. There are a few sidings (holding areas for trains) near Richmond Hill. As far-fetched as this sounds, he could have been an Amtrak passenger that was assaulted then thrown from the train while it was in a siding. He could have then stumbled to Burger King where he collapsed behind the dumpster.
Like I said, farfetched but anything is a possibility at this point.
I would be more than happy to answer any specific questions re: Richmond Hill and the surrounding areas.
WELCOME to the thread!!!!!!!!!! Let me regroup...then I will pepper you with questions.
Oh, here is one-
What was the word on the street about that Burger King? Was it in a tough area of town, were there a lot of transients there, abandoned vehicles and the like???
believe09
10-28-2008, 11:56 AM
Let's say for the sake of argument BK flew into Savannah in 2004...perhaps even from Denver.
I started to do a little checking and found that in 2004, AirTran was offering some KILLER deals on flights...39.00 one way for example. Well, they didn't seem to fly to and from Denver that I could see.
But it got me thinking-perhaps BK was using up frequent flyer miles or got a killer deal on a flight and thought he would go somewhere he had never been before....
One of the hottest restaurant associated leads we had at the beginning of the year was from a woman who was sure she knew him from food trade shows in Orlando. She was in the industry for 15 years and was certain she had a nodding acquaintance with him but did not know him directly. She could not recall if he had a booth or he was attending like everyone else. She remembered seeing him at more than one trade show.
What if he did travel for business? So let's go backwards and try and figure out how do we figure out what airlines were flying into Savannah from the west during the time he was missing. Then we can either kick it to FBI Bill or approach the airlines directly to check manifests if they still have them available. Did they have someone who did not come back???
Am I insane or does this seem doable??
Goodbevins
10-28-2008, 12:06 PM
Thanks for the welcome!
Burger King was not in a bad part of town at all. Richmond Hill is a fairly affluent area, in the three years that I lived there I never once saw a transient or witnessed any crimes. It (Burger King) is in your typical "restaurant row" right off of the exit. McDonald's, Taco Bell, Wendy's, Arby's, KFC are all grouped in that area. There is also a truckstop right across the highway. VERY busy truckstop, might I add.
believe09
10-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Thanks for the welcome!
Burger King was not in a bad part of town at all. Richmond Hill is a fairly affluent area, in the three years that I lived there I never once saw a transient or witnessed any crimes. It (Burger King) is in your typical "restaurant row" right off of the exit. McDonald's, Taco Bell, Wendy's, Arby's, KFC are all grouped in that area. There is also a truckstop right across the highway. VERY busy truckstop, might I add.
K-wonder what would happen if someone didn't come back for their rig? What is the name of the truck stop and I will see if they have anyone working who was there in August 2004. Maybe getting them to put up a flyer about BK would help?
Goodbevins
10-28-2008, 12:55 PM
It's a TA. (Travel Centers of America.)
Their info:
4401 US Highway 17, Richmond Hill - (912) 756-3381
A flyer would be a great idea.
Lots of hotels in the immediate area as well.
Boyz_Mum
10-28-2008, 01:00 PM
Let's say for the sake of argument BK flew into Savannah in 2004...perhaps even from Denver.
I started to do a little checking and found that in 2004, AirTran was offering some KILLER deals on flights...39.00 one way for example. Well, they didn't seem to fly to and from Denver that I could see.
But it got me thinking-perhaps BK was using up frequent flyer miles or got a killer deal on a flight and thought he would go somewhere he had never been before....
One of the hottest restaurant associated leads we had at the beginning of the year was from a woman who was sure she knew him from food trade shows in Orlando. She was in the industry for 15 years and was certain she had a nodding acquaintance with him but did not know him directly. She could not recall if he had a booth or he was attending like everyone else. She remembered seeing him at more than one trade show.
What if he did travel for business? So let's go backwards and try and figure out how do we figure out what airlines were flying into Savannah from the west during the time he was missing. Then we can either kick it to FBI Bill or approach the airlines directly to check manifests if they still have them available. Did they have someone who did not come back???
Am I insane or does this seem doable??
I think your idea is doable- I just don't know what to do to help? From DIA (Denver International Airport), I have checked flights through Frontier Airlines, gotten quotes from American Airlines, gotten quotes from Southwest. I can't think of any cheap flights out of DIA at the present time. It seems like an expensive city to fly out of, IMO. One question that sticks with me is that BK could have been flying out of Denver to go to the ocean for business or pleasure, but I can't figure why no one would have reported a relative or business associate who didn't show up at the destination or come back from the trip. So far, I've searched using terms such as "missing business man" and "missing vacationer" and haven't found a single soul that seems right for BK. With the hurricane that was going through, I tried to find out if the Savannah airport was closed and couldn't find the information. I wondered if BK landed in Savannah and got caught up in a bad weather situation? Also, I want to apologize in advance for not being a fluent typist- I admire all of you for all your input, I only wish I was half as smart! :blowkiss:
believe09
10-28-2008, 02:20 PM
I have the go ahead to get a flyer to the truck stops (El Cheapo and TA) and they will post them. Better news-the staff has been there for at least 11 years, so they might have first hand knowlege.
I thought we had a flyer already made for our boy, but I cannot find one-if someone can whip one together I will send it out...otherwise I have BEGGED SieSie to try and put one together.
Interestingly enough, and I am not trying to get too excited, the "boss" of the El Cheapo indicated that it was a good assumption that the amnesia victim would have passed through the truck stop and gone to BK to eat...she was floored that PD didn't check in with them in 2004...
It's a TA. (Travel Centers of America.)
Their info:
4401 US Highway 17, Richmond Hill - (912) 756-3381
A flyer would be a great idea.
Lots of hotels in the immediate area as well.
believe09
10-28-2008, 02:21 PM
Nope-WS does not require typing fluency or even posting ideas that are grammatically correct, thank goodness!!!!
Thank you for checking even that much-it gives us another avenue to check into...
I think your idea is doable- I just don't know what to do to help? From DIA (Denver International Airport), I have checked flights through Frontier Airlines, gotten quotes from American Airlines, gotten quotes from Southwest. I can't think of any cheap flights out of DIA at the present time. It seems like an expensive city to fly out of, IMO. One question that sticks with me is that BK could have been flying out of Denver to go to the ocean for business or pleasure, but I can't figure why no one would have reported a relative or business associate who didn't show up at the destination or come back from the trip. So far, I've searched using terms such as "missing business man" and "missing vacationer" and haven't found a single soul that seems right for BK. With the hurricane that was going through, I tried to find out if the Savannah airport was closed and couldn't find the information. I wondered if BK landed in Savannah and got caught up in a bad weather situation? Also, I want to apologize in advance for not being a fluent typist- I admire all of you for all your input, I only wish I was half as smart! :blowkiss:
chaddylex
10-28-2008, 02:47 PM
Hi All,
I have been reading about this case for awhile now and even went into my breakroom here at work to watch BK on Dr. Phil 2 weeks ago. (this is my first post on this case). My question is, other than this guy probably having a family, what about a house (mortgage payments, other debts - like car payments etc not being paid) I just find this rather odd that he hasn't been recognized at all...... What about co workers wondering where he's been???? (I know that has been mentioned in the above posts, it's just is so bizarre!!)
Believe, you have been great at following leads on this case, anything new???
chaddylex
believe09
10-28-2008, 02:57 PM
Welcome-yes it is bizarre-where was he before 8/31/2004??????????????
It is funny-I am looking at the add for background checks and it says "they always leave a trail...where is your trail, Mr. Kyle?
Right now I am trying to get a flyer put together for the truck stops across from the site of the burger king-other than that I have nothing....:confused:
Hi All,
I have been reading about this case for awhile now and even went into my breakroom here at work to watch BK on Dr. Phil 2 weeks ago. (this is my first post on this case). My question is, other than this guy probably having a family, what about a house (mortgage payments, other debts - like car payments etc not being paid) I just find this rather odd that he hasn't been recognized at all...... What about co workers wondering where he's been???? (I know that has been mentioned in the above posts, it's just is so bizarre!!)
Believe, you have been great at following leads on this case, anything new???
chaddylex
Julessleuther
10-28-2008, 03:36 PM
As far as air--USAir, Delta, United, American, and Northwest all would have had flights from Denver to Savannah (I used to be a corp travel agent. :) )
I like the amtrak angle, or he may have been "riding" the rails?? You know, like Kerouac...
PS: One of the biggest food shows in the country is in Chicago. I wonder if he remembers being there?
Julessleuther
10-28-2008, 04:05 PM
The Americas Food and Beverage show was in Miami, FL on Aug 1, 2004. If he was part of a western region, however, he probably would have attended the Western Food Service and Hospitality Expo in Los Angeles, held August 31-Sep 1, 2004. Maybe he was supposed to go and did not make it? I have sent an email to the Savannah Visitors and Convention bureau requesting all conventions for Aug/Sep 2004. Maybe something will catch our eye. I also sent an email to the National Association of Specialty Food Trade, requesting a listing of all 2004 trade shows. Now I am off to go study for my mid-term....
believe09
10-28-2008, 05:02 PM
As far as air--USAir, Delta, United, American, and Northwest all would have had flights from Denver to Savannah (I used to be a corp travel agent. :) )
I like the amtrak angle, or he may have been "riding" the rails?? You know, like Kerouac...
PS: One of the biggest food shows in the country is in Chicago. I wonder if he remembers being there?
The Americas Food and Beverage show was in Miami, FL on Aug 1, 2004. If he was part of a western region, however, he probably would have attended the Western Food Service and Hospitality Expo in Los Angeles, held August 31-Sep 1, 2004. Maybe he was supposed to go and did not make it? I have sent an email to the Savannah Visitors and Convention bureau requesting all conventions for Aug/Sep 2004. Maybe something will catch our eye. I also sent an email to the National Association of Specialty Food Trade, requesting a listing of all 2004 trade shows. Now I am off to go study for my mid-term....
I bow to your greatness, all of you....hard to believe this crowd (meaning WSers) cannot dig up his ID!!!!!
Boyz_Mum
10-28-2008, 05:11 PM
As far as air--USAir, Delta, United, American, and Northwest all would have had flights from Denver to Savannah (I used to be a corp travel agent. :) )
I like the amtrak angle, or he may have been "riding" the rails?? You know, like Kerouac...
PS: One of the biggest food shows in the country is in Chicago. I wonder if he remembers being there?
Since you are familiar with a travel angle, could it be plausible to think a plane may have had to cancel a connecting flight from Savannah to Miami if the hurricane at the time (Aug 2004) were creating problems with air travel? (The travel I was checking was personal and geared to the future, not for the past, thank you for giving the names of more airlines that serve or served DIA...)
Amtrak is a good idea too.
You are all really great minds~thanks for letting me be among you!
Julessleuther
10-28-2008, 05:53 PM
Yes, it is quite possible, but I do not know how you would determine that. Maybe by contacting SAV (Savannah Intl Airport) They may have records of that.
Since you are familiar with a travel angle, could it be plausible to think a plane may have had to cancel a connecting flight from Savannah to Miami if the hurricane at the time (Aug 2004) were creating problems with air travel? (The travel I was checking was personal and geared to the future, not for the past, thank you for giving the names of more airlines that serve or served DIA...)
Amtrak is a good idea too.
You are all really great minds~thanks for letting me be among you!
FightTheOstrich
10-28-2008, 06:51 PM
Let's say for the sake of argument BK flew into Savannah in 2004...perhaps even from Denver.
I started to do a little checking and found that in 2004, AirTran was offering some KILLER deals on flights...39.00 one way for example. Well, they didn't seem to fly to and from Denver that I could see.
But it got me thinking-perhaps BK was using up frequent flyer miles or got a killer deal on a flight and thought he would go somewhere he had never been before....
One of the hottest restaurant associated leads we had at the beginning of the year was from a woman who was sure she knew him from food trade shows in Orlando. She was in the industry for 15 years and was certain she had a nodding acquaintance with him but did not know him directly. She could not recall if he had a booth or he was attending like everyone else. She remembered seeing him at more than one trade show.
What if he did travel for business? So let's go backwards and try and figure out how do we figure out what airlines were flying into Savannah from the west during the time he was missing. Then we can either kick it to FBI Bill or approach the airlines directly to check manifests if they still have them available. Did they have someone who did not come back???
Am I insane or does this seem doable??
the restaurant industry is a tight community. i believe the National Restaurant Assoc. still has a monthly magazine. see if you can get his face in there. the food industry also includes, schools, hospitals, nursing homes etc... all distributors have food shows. usually 2 big ones each year. it is put on by distributors, the vendors all have booths and restaurant owners, school lunch ladies etc...come to them. GFS has an annual show in the fall in Ft. Wayne along w/ other cities.
Julessleuther
10-28-2008, 08:14 PM
Believe--
Did that woman say which show she was attending in Orlando? If so, we may be able to get a vendor list at least. It looks like there is an International Food Service Technology in Orlando in Feb--I will see if they had one there in 2004.
Update: The FS/Tech 2004 was in Orlando, but not until Oct.
Let's say for the sake of argument BK flew into Savannah in 2004...perhaps even from Denver.
I started to do a little checking and found that in 2004, AirTran was offering some KILLER deals on flights...39.00 one way for example. Well, they didn't seem to fly to and from Denver that I could see.
But it got me thinking-perhaps BK was using up frequent flyer miles or got a killer deal on a flight and thought he would go somewhere he had never been before....
One of the hottest restaurant associated leads we had at the beginning of the year was from a woman who was sure she knew him from food trade shows in Orlando. She was in the industry for 15 years and was certain she had a nodding acquaintance with him but did not know him directly. She could not recall if he had a booth or he was attending like everyone else. She remembered seeing him at more than one trade show.
What if he did travel for business? So let's go backwards and try and figure out how do we figure out what airlines were flying into Savannah from the west during the time he was missing. Then we can either kick it to FBI Bill or approach the airlines directly to check manifests if they still have them available. Did they have someone who did not come back???
Am I insane or does this seem doable??
believe09
10-28-2008, 08:51 PM
OK- you guys got me thinkin about what would happen if you just disappeared and you had bank accounts, an apartment or house etc...so I checked for missing tenants in Denver 2004...long shot lol. BUT-I came upon this website:
http://www.colorado.gov/treasury/gcp/
It lists all of the "found money"-dormant bank accounts, tax refunds etc...OK so you have to search by last name and nothing came up under Benjaman but a 43.00 HUD refund...
HOWEVER-there is a link to search for pension money AND it lists out all of the beneficiaries by name and last known address....depending on BK's age and the pension, he would be eligible to take distribution of any pension money that might be his...so what are your thoughts? Anyone? I did a cursory check and used the companies as my guide. This might be a good place to see if we can at least see if any listed beneficiaries were reported missing or dead on the SSDI???
Julessleuther
10-29-2008, 12:58 AM
Did you guys know that the G-8 summit was held in June 2004 in Savannah/Sea Island!! Wherever there is a G-8 summit, there are always a TON of protesters. I know it is a 1 1.2 mths earlier, but...
http://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/586/46615/
Is there any chance he was in Atlanta for business and decided to drive to the "coast" to see the water? Atlanta is a huge convention place.
There was a comic book convention in Atlanta in late Aug, 2004. There was also a National Federation of the Blind convention in Atlanta in Aug, 2004. Interesting, especially if he had cataracts prior to his accident....
dreamweaver
11-06-2008, 02:10 AM
Benjaman Kyle:
Mugged. Beaten. Car stolen.
no abandoned rental car reports checked at the time.
no abandoned personal car reports found, Benjaman K
did his own search.
The gay possibility:
He could have been traveling, something happened, they
beat him up and put him next to the dumpster.
Would we ever know?
Hurricane Charley: 2004 Aug. 9 – 15
It hit Florida hard and the up the coast too.
Victim of that hurricane?
He could have been in town for a visit. a convention.
a funeral. a wedding. a reunion.
a vacation. a boating trip. a fishing trip.
I looked up Aug. 2004, Savannah, Ga and there were many conventions and groups and events then.
It was the time of the 2004 elections.
Aug. 31, Florida primary.
Aug. 30 to Sept. 2, Republican Nat’l Convention, New York
Could he have worked for a political committee? He just never showed up
for work.
Could he be part of a security team going ahead of the politicians?
But he would be missed, you would think.
Gee, and then my mind goes to a coverup.
I looked up funerals, Aug. 04, Savannah, Ga.
There was one that looked promising. The woman could have been a sister, no picture available. The obituary listed a brother that lived in Ohio.
I checked that person's name. It seems he is still living in Ohio.
The restaurant industry vendors or convention sounds like a good lead.
He did say he thought he worked in a nice restaurant and was familiar with
the appliances and design.
What would be the convention for those who design restaurants? a kind of architect firm?
Priest.? I don't know. Good to check out though.
BK could study restaurant design books or magazines or ask to go into
kitchens. The more he is around things he thinks are familar, maybe it will jog his memory.
I wish BK or his nurse or the Dr Phil show would post updates, once a month, at least.
What I do know is that there are so many people who are searching to find his identity.
So glad there is someone on this board that knows the Richmond Hill area, that is a big help.
carolwood
11-11-2008, 06:26 PM
Somewhere in one of the threads, someone stated BK spelled some words using "tre"(not sure what the words were, I have read so much) instead of "ter". My first thought is English Canada.
snowme
11-11-2008, 06:34 PM
That was probably me. It caught my attention in his restaurant memories of Denver that he had spelled the word headquarters as such: headquartres - not once but twice. I thought maybe he had a love of English literature. :)
Somewhere in one of the threads, someone stated BK spelled some words using "tre"(not sure what the words were, I have read so much) instead of "ter". My first thought is English Canada.
carolwood
11-11-2008, 06:43 PM
Hi Snowme, I do genealogy research, and have plenty Acadian Family in Canada, and they do use "tre". I also noticed someone on the threads talking about Denmark, and in the statement that was made "tre" was there. Maybe he lived in Denver, Indiana, and may have retired to Canada.
snowme
11-12-2008, 03:57 AM
Voice4theSilent this is in response to you from the 50/60 year old Amnesia Victim Savannah, GA Thread #4 - Page 2- Post #88. Thought I'd bring it here as it relates to the theories topic.
This might sound stupid but if I lived in Colorado and wanted to see the ocean I would go west, not east. Makes me think he was either living somewhere other than CO. when he ended up in Georgia or was there for work, to meet someone, etc. (meaning the "to see the ocean" was secondary to whatever reason he was in or around Georgia.) Thoughts?
That does not sound stupid at all, to me. I would do the same. It makes me wonder if maybe Benjaman went to college in Denver (the timing and knowledge of the immediate area could fit somewhat with the timeframe he would have gone to school and perhaps started out in his chosen field) and then perhaps went back "home" to Indiana making it not so odd to go that far (as from CO) to be found on the east coast, if going to see the ocean.
snowme
11-12-2008, 04:02 AM
That's great news on getting flyers up in those truck stops!!
I had not even thought that far .. PD not having checked with the truck stop... that just saddens me to the bone!
I have the go ahead to get a flyer to the truck stops (El Cheapo and TA) and they will post them. Better news-the staff has been there for at least 11 years, so they might have first hand knowlege.
I thought we had a flyer already made for our boy, but I cannot find one-if someone can whip one together I will send it out...otherwise I have BEGGED SieSie to try and put one together.
Interestingly enough, and I am not trying to get too excited, the "boss" of the El Cheapo indicated that it was a good assumption that the amnesia victim would have passed through the truck stop and gone to BK to eat...she was floored that PD didn't check in with them in 2004...
snowme
11-12-2008, 04:20 AM
Welcome chaddylex! I think the same things all the time... why is no one (seemingly) looking for this man, a boss, a cousin, a brother, a mom or dad, a landlord, etc. It's just hard to comprehend. I hate the thought of it but it makes me wonder if something were to happen to me and I just vanished from those who know me, even vaguely, would they all just shrug their shoulders and say "I wonder what happened to her?" but go no further than that thought?! :eek: I know the world's a busier place than times past but geez it seems that so few, by comparison, take the time these days for their fellow man.
Well, that turned awfully bleak, didn't it?! :crazy:
Welcome again!! :)
Hi All,
I have been reading about this case for awhile now and even went into my breakroom here at work to watch BK on Dr. Phil 2 weeks ago. (this is my first post on this case). My question is, other than this guy probably having a family, what about a house (mortgage payments, other debts - like car payments etc not being paid) I just find this rather odd that he hasn't been recognized at all...... What about co workers wondering where he's been???? (I know that has been mentioned in the above posts, it's just is so bizarre!!)
Believe, you have been great at following leads on this case, anything new???
chaddylex
carolwood
11-12-2008, 10:26 AM
sorry, i posted on the wrong thread:
I think Voice is right. Another thought I had: Bonnie (TS) Aug 12-14, hit fla and exited around New Jersey, Charlie (Hur) Aug 13- 14, hit fla. and exited around Mass. and Frances (Hur) Sept 5 - 9, hit fla. and exited around Penn. I live in louisiana. Charlie was a bad boy, and if you didn't leave, you wished you had. Now comes frances, cat 4 at one stage, I am thinking, get me out of here, I am not staying for another. Maybe BK had elderly family, maybe nursing home, maybe in there own home, he was trying to get out, before frances came in. Or maybe an insurance adjuster, I know here, we get insurance adjusters from everywhere, some just have to take a class, and they go to work. They are independent contractors, i think.
You can see the stats at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_At...l_Storm_Bonnie
carolwood
11-12-2008, 11:04 AM
I think maybe we should contact some of the large insurance agencies HR departments and ask about this. They have to keep a paper trail, independent or not.
carolwood
11-12-2008, 01:50 PM
I just talked to Wm. Stewarts' sister in law. Wm. has a swan tatoo on the ankle, so this is probably not BK, but she will visited the website to check everything out and try to get photos of Wm. up on the site.
believe09
11-12-2008, 02:10 PM
I just talked to Wm. Stewarts' sister in law. Wm. has a swan tatoo on the ankle, so this is probably not BK, but she will visited the website to check everything out and try to get photos of Wm. up on the site.
Aside from what has been documented on our site, Mr. Kyle has no other scars or distinguishing marks.
dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 12:12 AM
I just talked to Wm. Stewarts' sister in law. Wm. has a swan tatoo on the ankle, so this is probably not BK, but she will visited the website to check everything out and try to get photos of Wm. up on the site.
_________________________________
I have not seen a picture of Wm Stewart yet.??
I know he is not
BK, but he could have his own info on the missing people..
Couldn't hurt.
donnagirl1964
11-17-2008, 04:23 PM
If anyone has contacts with a legal secretary or legal assistant they can ask them to search court records for the past four years to see if anyone has been delcared dead without a body. Families would do this to cash in insurance policies, close out checking/savings accounts, settle up estates, etc. They would have to file a motion in court to begin the process and follow through with a hearing. A legal assistant would have access via the web to search records.
Also, in my younger days I was attacked by a motorcycle gang because they said my friends and I were on "their road" though it was public. This event has led me to research gangs to a great extent. If BK had a motorcycle and was riding it he could have been easily taken down by a motorcycle gang and had his bike stolen. Their MO is to intimidate people and leave them in the worst possible conditions as possible. Being found by the dumpster could indicate someone thought he was trash, also an MC 1% club thought. They've killed people for the simplest of reasons. The friends I was with that night were just about to be shot when the cops arrived after a good semaritan phone in the incident. The pistols were already loaded, cocked and about to shoot, for absolutely no reason. So research of any motorcycle events in and around the area he was found may bring some leads.
Also, if he was at a camping site he might have gone into the camp shower house and been accosted there. He would have not been dressed and would make an easy target. He would have left his wallet, keys and everything in the camper. He was heading toward the ocean and what better way than a camper. The aducters would have driven him away from the camp site so they could get the camper out before he could come to. Remember they didn't think he was going to have amnesia, so the further away he was the longer they had to secure the camper.
Also, everyone knows atleast one gay person, why not send the photo and stories to them and ask them to pass them around via email, it may be worth a shot. If anyone thinks he may have been gay.
A reason for no one finding him could mean they would have to pay back any insurance money they claimed once they had him legally declared dead. Or he may have caught his wife cheating and with him declared dead she got everything. The family may have sued someone for his untimely death and they received a large settlement, the list could go on and on.
My rambling thoughts.
raeann
11-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Regarding the motorcycle angle...just up Highway 17 in the Myrtle Beach area there are large annual gatherings of motorcycle groups. I don't know the names or dates of these gatherings, but it should be easy enough to check with the S.C. tourism bureau or some such organization if someone wants to do this.
clemsongrad
11-17-2008, 05:16 PM
I believe that the motorcycle week in Myrtle Beach is in May, but I will check on that. Also, Myrtle Beach is not that close to Savannah. Myrtle Beach is close to the NC line while Savannah is a lot closer to Hilton Head.
raeann
11-17-2008, 05:22 PM
Another angle to check is that a Millionaires Casino boat was scheduled to have its maiden voyage out of Savannah around August 28th of 2004. It seems that the voyage was cut short due to a fire of some sort on board. Many of the articles about this listed on Google are no longer available. So, if someone more skilled at this than I am could check this out also, it seems like an interesting possibility. Maybe a reason why a family would not be looking for a "gambler" or would think that he was missing voluntarily.
This link is the only one where I got any good information to come up:
http://old.savannahnow.com/stories/082704/2402503.shtml
dreamweaver
11-18-2008, 12:53 AM
Another angle to check is that a Millionaires Casino boat was scheduled to have its maiden voyage out of Savannah around August 28th of 2004. It seems that the voyage was cut short due to a fire of some sort on board. Many of the articles about this listed on Google are no longer available. So, if someone more skilled at this than I am could check this out also, it seems like an interesting possibility. Maybe a reason why a family would not be looking for a "gambler" or would think that he was missing voluntarily.
This link is the only one where I got any good information to come up:
http://old.savannahnow.com/stories/082704/2402503.shtml
__________________________________________________ __
I found several news articles re: Millionaire's Casino boat. The owner is listed and company's phone number listed.
http://old.savannahnow.com/stories/052505/3056401.shtml
But, that business, Millionaire's Casino folded the next year. It looks like the business had many problems.
Follow up: Finding owner and asking him, if anyone went missing Aug. 2004?
dreamweaver
11-18-2008, 01:04 AM
' snipped respectfully'
Also, everyone knows atleast one gay person, why not send the photo and stories to them and ask them to pass them around via email, it may be worth a shot. If anyone thinks he may have been gay.
A reason for no one finding him could mean they would have to pay back any insurance money they claimed once they had him legally declared dead. Or he may have caught his wife cheating and with him declared dead she got everything. The family may have sued someone for his untimely death and they received a large settlement, the list could go on and on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In researching BK's story, I ran across a newsletter for gays in the Savannah area. I will search for that and post it. They may be willing to run BK's story as a general news piece.
I don't know if they would 'out' someone who had lost their memory. But if, and only if, BK is gay, then the information could be sent to the FBI agent in charge.
and
re: insurance settlement: If someone is declared legally dead, what steps do LE or insurance companies do before any court proceeding takes place?
Do probate claims have to be submitted and filed with state as well?
First step: Check state databases in Ga., Co., and In.
Voice4theSilent
11-18-2008, 01:45 AM
Does BK know how to ride a motorcycle? Is he drawn towards casinos or gambling? :waitasec:
donnagirl1964
11-18-2008, 03:31 PM
In regard to the boat theory, that could present a whole different set of circumstances: If it were in port at the time of the fire outbreak the laws of the United States would be in effect. However, if the boat was somewhere in international waters, which aren't far from shorelines, and a death is thought to have taken place, international laws may be in effect.
States differ in their required time frame (usually 4 to 7 years) in which a person can file for a missing person to be declared legally dead. However, if the reason for there disappearance is an event which the missing person was "exposed to a specific peril of death" - including suicide or murder - at the beginning of their absence. If so, the missing person could be declared legally dead before the waiting period. For instance, New York immediately issued death certificates for those missing from the Twin Towers.
When someone is missing and presumed dead, many other lives are affected. A declaration of death can be obtained in the courts - allowing, for example, for the deceased's spouse to remarry, or heirs to collect inheritances. If you own a home in joint tenancy with someone (who is missing) and you wanted to sell it, you would be stuck for that period," unless you could have them declared legally dead.
Only after a missing person is declared legally dead can a probate of the estate take place or insurance be collected.
dreamweaver
11-19-2008, 10:01 PM
In regard to the boat theory, that could present a whole different set of circumstances: If it were in port at the time of the fire outbreak the laws of the United States would be in effect. However, if the boat was somewhere in international waters, which aren't far from shorelines, and a death is thought to have taken place, international laws may be in effect.
States differ in their required time frame (usually 4 to 7 years) in which a person can file for a missing person to be declared legally dead. However, if the reason for there disappearance is an event which the missing person was "exposed to a specific peril of death" - including suicide or murder - at the beginning of their absence. If so, the missing person could be declared legally dead before the waiting period. For instance, New York immediately issued death certificates for those missing from the Twin Towers.
When someone is missing and presumed dead, many other lives are affected. A declaration of death can be obtained in the courts - allowing, for example, for the deceased's spouse to remarry, or heirs to collect inheritances. If you own a home in joint tenancy with someone (who is missing) and you wanted to sell it, you would be stuck for that period," unless you could have them declared legally dead.
Only after a missing person is declared legally dead can a probate of the estate take place or insurance be collected.
------------------------------------------------------------------
And adding to that, wouldn't the insurance companies have to have proof that LE was involved, that you filed a missing persons report, steps were taken to find him, etc.
dreamweaver
11-19-2008, 10:02 PM
Does BK know how to ride a motorcycle? Is he drawn towards casinos or gambling? :waitasec:
__________________________________________________ __---
Is there an answer to this question?
Waddles
11-20-2008, 06:03 PM
respectfully snipped
Also, everyone knows atleast one gay person, why not send the photo and stories to them and ask them to pass them around via email, it may be worth a shot. If anyone thinks he may have been gay.
snipped
My rambling thoughts.
Some really interesting and well thought ideas here. Just one thing though, sorry but I really don't think one would forget one was gay, people who lose their memory don't "forget" they're sexual preferences, it's what they are, right?
Waddles
11-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Some really interesting and well thought ideas here. Just one thing though, sorry but I really don't think one would forget one was gay, people who lose their memory don't "forget" they're sexual preferences, it's what they are, right?
Oh, I read somewhere that this is maybe not so sure, and amnesia may even include sexual identity -I find that extremely astonishing - But he must know now, right?
Waddles
11-20-2008, 06:20 PM
Oh, I read somewhere that this is maybe not so sure, and amnesia may even include sexual identity -I find that extremely astonishing - But he must know now, right?
http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2000_08.dir/0153.html
Phew, I can sleep assured my whole belief system is not turned upside down and despite amnesia taking away all of our memories and our "identity" as defined by the paperwork it does not take away who we are and our true identity, even if we are sadly left unable to match that with our past personal experiences
donnagirl1964
11-21-2008, 09:15 AM
The Gay theory was talked about on the WS boards as a possibility, which is what led me to think maybe he is and maybe he isn't. He may know if he is and his preferences may lead him in that direction, but unless he says so for sure we may never know.
One thing though, 20 years ago Gay Men were not as accepted as they are today. It was around that time when men were murdered for openingly living as a gay man. If BK lost his memories for the past 20 years he may not trust that he can reveal such a huge secret since there are still prejudices (as there are for all types of things, such as too skinny, too fat, too tall, too short, skin color, etc.) which can cost you your life (closed minded people).
My brother is gay and he's told me stories about being spit on, hosed down with a water hose, having garbage thrown at him, people shouting obsentities at him, etc. It paralyzed him with fear at times. Twenty years ago was much worse than today. Just think if BK is stuck in that time with those thoughts.
As for delcaring him legally dead, the person asked if they had to have proof that he was searched for, the answer is yes. They have to give sufficent evdience that they ran a legal notice of a missing person; they made extended search efforts for him; that he has not used any credit cards or banking accounts; he has not applied for a lost birth certificate or DL; that he has not contacted any family, friends, co-workers, bosses, etc.; they have to give statements saying where they last saw him and why they think he disappeared (whether his own accord or forceed to leave) and many other things they have to present. It's a long process but there are reasons for it. Once the court declares him legally dead and a death certificate is issued the insurance company will have to pay up, provided his insurance was paid up at the time of his disappearance.
For the motorcycle riding question, can he drive one? I'm not sure, I've just done a lot of research on motorcycle gangs and I've even owned a motorcycle and did prison ministry from it through a Christian Motorcycle Club. It's goes back to the saying that 99% of all motorcycle riders are good people. After that public statement outlaw clubs began calling themselves 1% riders. It's those clubs whose actions closely resemble those in BK's case. The being found naked and having been beaten so severly. For instance, if a 1% club is riding on the south bound lane on the left side and you pass them on the right side of that same south bound highway, they will consider that disrespectful, which leads to violence.
dreamweaver
11-21-2008, 02:54 PM
'snipped respectfully'
[QUOTE=donnagirl1964;2971057]The Gay theory was talked about on the WS boards as a possibility, which is what led me to think maybe he is and maybe he isn't. He may know if he is and his preferences may lead him in that direction, but unless he says so for sure we may never know.
One thing though, 20 years ago Gay Men were not as accepted as they are today. It was around that time when men were murdered for openingly living as a gay man. If BK lost his memories for the past 20 years he may not trust that he can reveal such a huge secret since there are still prejudices (as there are for all types of things, such as too skinny, too fat, too tall, too short, skin color, etc.) which can cost you your life (closed minded people).
My brother is gay and he's told me stories about being spit on, hosed down with a water hose, having garbage thrown at him, people shouting obsentities at him, etc. It paralyzed him with fear at times. Twenty years ago was much worse than today. Just think if BK is stuck in that time with those thoughts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
My son is gay also. Even now, even in an enlightened part of the country, there are those who hate others.
At BK's age, if he is gay, he probably learned to hide it. He either did not have a partner and just sought company at times OR if he had one, then
there could have been a breakup or death. A traumatic event.
And in Georgia, I looked online and there appears to be a large openly gay community in Savannah and Tybee island.
Of course, we do not know if he is or is not and it is not our business.
I guess we speculate because we think it could lead to his identity.
But we probably will not ever know.
-- Back to finding how to get him a ssn------
donnagirl1964
11-24-2008, 10:27 AM
He said if he declarded himself an illegal alien he could get a SS card. However, what happens to all the Socical Security taxes he's paid in all these years? If he ever gets a job and then retires his monthly pay would only be a small fraction of what he's made since he began working with the new SS#.
For instance, if he's been paying into SS for 35 years and has paid average SS taxes then he might get $1000 a month after he's reached retirment age. But if he works for another 15 years before he retires and only has his information from the new SS card he may only get $250 (guessing) per month.
I would like to know if any similar situation has even been presented to the SS Administration in Washington and if so what the outcome was.
bearschick
11-24-2008, 01:13 PM
Is there a list by state of people who have been declared legally dead? Or a central clearing house of some sort? I'm trying to think "backwards" and see if BK is listed somewhere.
dreamweaver
12-01-2008, 01:20 PM
BK; Has anyone heard anything new recently? believe09??? What is the latest?
dreamweaver
12-01-2008, 01:39 PM
This is not a theory just need to get this posted and out of my head!
BK's parents probably in their 80's and may/may not be alive
**I agree.
BK probably has no siblings or if BK does, they might be estranged.
**I would agree, otherwise, where do they think he is?
BK may have children and are estranged or never had children.
** I agree.
BK may have a girlfriend or wife or never had either.
** Or divorced.
BK may not even be from the USA; maybe Canada.
** I think he is from the USA. But why doesn't someone
know him?
BK may have had an apartment; eventually the owner would have filed for eviction.
** Yes, an apartment manager would filed in court for eviction. Maybe check CO state first.? Court records?
BK may have had a home; eventually the bank would have foreclosed on the house.
** Yes. Check on court records. Foreclosure after 3 or 6 months? Check CO first?
BK had neighbors either living in an apartment or home next to BK.
** Hmm. What do his neighbors think when he was missing? Maybe he planned a trip? Maybe he was just retired?
BK must of worked, either for someone or had his own business. Either way, BK not showing up at his job or business would have set off a red flag either with his employess or his supervisor.
** Yes. He just is not showing up on any radar. I have heard of cases where police did not take that much interest in a missing person, especially if they had no family or friend to follow up. But, again, maybe he retired. ?
BK may have had credit cards and accounts are now in default.
** I like this one. Where can we find delinquent accounts from 2004?
Or he retired and paid of his accounts? Or came into an inheritance, paid off bills and decided to travel the US?
BK may have had a phone which is now turned off.
** We need someone who can checkd all this records. The FBI agent, BIll Kilcollins?
BK had mail delivery; post office would have noticed excessive mail piling up.
** Yes. Again, we need someone to check. Or he left the area after retirement and no one thinks of him as missing.
BK didn't file his 2004 taxes and perhaps IRS has flagged him and sending out notices for not paying his taxes.
** This is a good one. Even if he retired or sold a business, he would still need to file 2004 taxes. FBI agent, Bill Kilcollins?
BK is too young at the time he went missing for Socail Security but he could have been on Social Security Disability. Checks could have been mailed to him or direct deposit.
** Could have. But he checked out completely healthy.
BK could have owned a car and it is still out there somewhere. Unless he couldn't drive due to his eye-sight.
** Car repossessed? From GA? Check towing companies in GA? Has this been done?
BK could have flown to Atlanta late August 2004 with a return ticket back to his destination and the ticket was never used.
** How do we find out if a ticket was never used? Does an airline keep track? If so, for how long? FBI Bill Killcollins?
BK could have rented a car, and the rent-a-car is now stolen.
** Towing companies record check? FBI Bill?
BK's concern about his SS card indicates to me he had high "working ethics".
** I agree. He wants to work.
BK could have walked away from everything years ago, leaving no trail of employment, home, etc.
** Well, yes. But he would have been reported missing then?
If BK had seen a traumatic event or was involved in a traumatic event with regards to his family, LE would be looking for BK.
** If so, would we look for newspaper articles about a missing witness?
** Who keeps track of the missing during hurricanes?
BK needs to get on the Today Show, Good Morning America, Early Show and Oprah.
** ABSOLUTELY. Or Dateline.
carolwood
12-03-2008, 06:05 PM
Dream, those are wonderful theories, that's why I posted about the businessman. I couldn't find anymore, but it was late, so gave up, but I wanted to get it out there. When you read the article, it is rather vague.
dreamweaver
12-03-2008, 10:33 PM
Dream, those are wonderful theories, that's why I posted about the businessman. I couldn't find anymore, but it was late, so gave up, but I wanted to get it out there. When you read the article, it is rather vague.
----------------------
To give credit where credit is due: Patty G came up with the theories, I just responded to them.
But it is a continual amazement to me, that NO ONE knows BK. No one.
Not family or a friend or a co worker or a neighbor.
Will keep searching.
dreamweaver
12-10-2008, 10:22 AM
Questions:
Has BK had his dental work done? If so, was the dentist able to answer some of questions posted earlier in this thread?
Has BK had time to go over list of clues culled from Dr Phil forum? If so, anything stand out to him?
What happened with CO. law enforcement group?
Did BK go to a hypnotherapist? Will we know even an overview of results?
Is BK going to a psychiatrist, someone who specializes in memory loss?
Is there an update on what BK 'remember's about his life? New memories surfacing?
Is Nurse Betty in charge of coordinating getting BK on other television shows? Morning news shows, Dateline, Oprah, CNN, Nancy Grace? Or is this something we at WebSleuths could do?
I guess I am getting frustrated. Lots have helped by searching for clues and sending letters and making flyers. Could we get feedback?
Are we on the right track? Are there responses?
I feel like I am working in a vaccuum here.
Am I the only one?
dreamweaver
12-10-2008, 10:56 AM
My Theory:
BK came to see the ocean, his words from Dr Phil show.
BK went on vacation. He says his birthday is Aug. 28.
Maybe a birthday vacation.
Sat., Aug. 28, arrives in Richmond Hill, Ga.
He appears to be someone who likes solitude.
He has a room reservation.
or
He has a camper reservation.
He goes to the ocean. He explores. He takes a tour.
He takes pictures. He goes on a little cruise.
He wanders about.
Sun. night, Aug. 29, 2004, he goes to dinner
or
Mon., Aug. 30, 2004, he goes out for brunch.
For some reason, he is attacked and robbed. Kidnapped?
Beaten severely, hit 3 times on the right side of the head,
stripped of clothing and identification, left lying outside
where fire ants could get at him and sun beats down upon him.
Tues., Aug. 31, early a.m., BK
is dumped behind the dumpster at Burger King. His clothes thrown into the dumpster.
7:00a.m., BK is found. 911 called. EMT's find him semi conscious. EMT's note, he may have neurological problems.
Police are called. They do a cursory check and file a sketchy report or none at all.
Hospital reports BK says his back hurts, he can't see, his head hurts. He remains semi conscious for two weeks. He is transferred to another hospital.
carolwood
12-10-2008, 11:14 AM
No dream, I am too. I wish someone could give us an update. I have to this day sent out close to 1500 emails to catholic churches. If this isn't working, I would like to move on to something else. I want BK to find his identity and maybe this is the wrong angle to be searching. I just get so sentimental at the holidays. Wouldn't it be wonderful to give Bk a great gift. A NAME, AN IDENTITY. Someone out there knows this man. I just went to utube and the video was well over 1000 viewing. Maybe it is the emails I am sending. Anyways, BK I am still with you, I am just ranting, but could we get an update? Have you checked with FBI man lately? I would think there are some leads coming in. 1500 emails, 1000 will send on to at least 10 in there address book, turns into a whole bunch in the last few weeks.
dreamweaver
12-10-2008, 11:17 AM
Things Wrong with My Theory:
Okay, I know I am responding to my own post, but here are the flaws:
If BK lived in CO., he would have gone to the west coast to see the ocean.
....unless he stopped in to see someone in IN. on the way to GA. This would
assume he drove to GA.
....if he drove, then he would have started out for GA., right after a major hurricane had gone through there. ? Why?
If BK lived in CO, then he could have flown to GA. This would mean a rental car in GA.
.....no one knows if rental car agencies reported a 'found' car at that time.
If BK had a hotel room, why has no one tracked if a customer left all his luggage behind?
...... I don't think the police did.
If BK was packed and ready to leave and went to brunch, his car stolen when he was beaten, where is the car? If he owned the car, no payments, no bank would report delinquent car payments. But the attackers would not know that.
....were there reports of a burned out car? a wrecked car? but, LE would run the vin number of the car.
BK doesn't have a car. He doesn't show for a return airplane reservation, he does not show for an Amtrak reservation. The airlnes and train personnel just chalk it up, to a no show.
BK does not return home. He is not missed because:
he has no family
he has no close friends
he is known to be a loner
he is retired
his house is isolated
But, did he do a vacation mail stop when he left? Does the post office keep track of why he never came home or why the mail piled up?
But, he never used a bank account after Aug. 31, 2004. Do banks keep track?
............if he had an auto deposit for a retirement account and/or automatic payment of house mortgage or car payment, then, who would notice?
But, would the power company shut off his electric/gas?
..............
Ah, been down this road.
WHY, oh why, doesn't someone know something about this man?
IF
BK has no one close to him to report him missing,
THEN
what about his assailants?
I would think they probably have a criminal record.
I don't think someone who robs and beats people would
have a master criminal mind.
And saying that, then they would talk, at a bar,
to a friend, bragging about what they did.
dreamweaver
12-10-2008, 11:21 AM
No dream, I am too. I wish someone could give us an update. I have to this day sent out close to 1500 emails to catholic churches. If this isn't working, I would like to move on to something else. I want BK to find his identity and maybe this is the wrong angle to be searching. I just get so sentimental at the holidays. Wouldn't it be wonderful to give Bk a great gift. A NAME, AN IDENTITY. Someone out there knows this man. I just went to utube and the video was well over 1000 viewing. Maybe it is the emails I am sending. Anyways, BK I am still with you, I am just ranting, but could we get an update? Have you checked with FBI man lately? I would think there are some leads coming in. 1500 emails, 1000 will send on to at least 10 in there address book, turns into a whole bunch in the last few weeks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
carolwood:
My gosh! So many have worked so hard for BK. And I for one, do not mind doing it, but you sent out 1500 emails to Catholic churches. No response?
I sent out emails to sheriff's in different parts of country, to an employer, no one has ever responded. I even sent out emails to various news shows. The only response was from CBS.
and I agree,
BK, if you are reading this, please let us know an update.
dreamweaver
12-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Why BK has amnesia:
Experts say, an emotional trauma; a stressor, death in family, divorce, bad health, financial problems, etc.
OR
physical trauma; blow to head, beaten and left for dead.
And while researching online about amnesia victims, they recover their memories very slowly. But, in most cases, they do remember.
So, what if BK remembers things he doesn't want to know?
What if BK is gay? This theory has been floated on this thread.
What if he is beaten because he is perceived as gay?
What if he was abused sexually as well as being beaten?
What if the fire ant bites were a part of torture? He was covered in bites.
Maybe this is a reason he was found naked?
....theme from Deliverance plays in my mind.....
Maybe he is remembering his life from before Aug. 31,2004?
Maybe he is remembering why he was beaten and left with nothing?
If so, then I still think his torturers would talk, to their friends
or in a bar or in a jail or in exchange for a worse crime.
Local law enforcement would know the most about local thugs, those that
are always in trouble for robbery or assault.
Maybe local LE are embarrassed about their lack of good LE techniques on
Aug. 31, 2004.
...they could redeem themselves by finding who did this to BK.
Boyz_Mum
12-11-2008, 10:37 AM
I appreciate you all keeping the story alive. I have only gotten out a few flyers nothing compared to what you are doing carolwood! :clap: And dreamweaver, I love to read your thoughts. I do wish there were more updates along the way as well.
I had been googling missing businessmen, or missing vacationers and every other search term I've thought of. A part of me wonders if BK didn't leave home at an early age where the date of his going missing is actually in the 70's- and just lost contact with family or if he relocated during the 70's for job opportunities. This story has fascinated me as well as puzzling the heck out of me!
:blowkiss: Bless you all for keeping the story moving!
dreamweaver
12-12-2008, 02:59 AM
I don't know what else to do at this point. I need feedback. I am willing to work and search for clues/answers as much as anyone. But I don't want to go over things that have been ruled out by BK or law enforcement.
OT: I was heartened by the news of Caylee A. body being found today. It is most likely her body. Her spirit is already gone home and now her body can as well.
For those who think about these things, astrology, there is a grand trine now, and maybe it will uncover BK's identity also.
snowme
12-12-2008, 03:39 AM
I don't know what else to do at this point. I need feedback. I am willing to work and search for clues/answers as much as anyone. But I don't want to go over things that have been ruled out by BK or law enforcement.
OT: I was heartened by the news of Caylee A. body being found today. It is most likely her body. Her spirit is already gone home and now her body can as well.
For those who think about these things, astrology, there is a grand trine now, and maybe it will uncover BK's identity also.
:hug: dreamweaver! I (I'm sure all of us) understand what you're feeling. It's hard to feel we're moving forward, toward a solution. I agree, I think we need some feedback on some of the things brought up here - the questions, etc. Even if it's all "no, that doesn't ring a bell" or "nope, still don't recall a Christmas past"... etc. At least we'll have touched base.
Meantime dreamweaver, might I suggest stepping back for a bit. Force yourself to put it out of your mind for a few days at least. It's often the most rejuvinating remedy for this kind of exasperation. I'm probably not telling ya anything you don't already know.... but, I wanted you to know I hear ya! :blowkiss:
Voice4theSilent
12-17-2008, 03:35 AM
I don't know what else to do at this point. I need feedback. I am willing to work and search for clues/answers as much as anyone. But I don't want to go over things that have been ruled out by BK or law enforcement.
I completely agree with you. I had to step back awhile ago because I got so frustrated at the complete lack of feedback. Sorry (I mean no disrespect), but if I had this many people spending so much of their time on helping me I would answer any question they asked and be beyond grateful. I think it was mentioned months ago that BK would be setting up an account to answer some of the questions and every time I check back people are spinning their wheels with absolutely no input and no answers to their questions. I wonder if Dr. Phil washed his hands because of lack of response...who knows? To me it seems that BK wants a new SS# and that is all. Frankly, his lack of interest in what people are doing on this site has made me question his intentions. I hope I am wrong but it made me feel better to have gotten this off my chest. I will resume my "step back" now and hope for the best for BK.
JaneInOz
12-17-2008, 04:00 AM
I completely agree with you. I had to step back awhile ago because I got so frustrated at the complete lack of feedback. Sorry (I mean no disrespect), but if I had this many people spending so much of their time on helping me I would answer any question they asked and be beyond grateful. I think it was mentioned months ago that BK would be setting up an account to answer some of the questions and every time I check back people are spinning their wheels with absolutely no input and no answers to their questions. I wonder if Dr. Phil washed his hands because of lack of response...who knows? To me it seems that BK wants a new SS# and that is all. Frankly, his lack of interest in what people are doing on this site has made me question his intentions. I hope I am wrong but it made me feel better to have gotten this off my chest. I will resume my "step back" now and hope for the best for BK.
Wow ? I didnt know any of this. I even have him up on my adoption blog.
I think everyone deserves to know their identity.
I think if I had had amnesia for all this time with no real clue as to who I am I might want to start to live life again.
I think it must be very hard to have NO identity.
I actually wrote on the other thread about his surgery and possible pins/plates
I remember reading somewhere where these pins / plates have serial numbers.
I know it would be a big ask but if its true that he has pins/plates (can tell via xray) and that they have a serial number - then he could be traced as to who he is that way, if it cant be seen on xray - the serial number then they could open him up.
Id be willing to suffer surgery to find out who I was .
I think he was a businessman on his way somewhere, and he was mugged and severely beaten, clothes stripped off him (was he sexually assaulted ?) and his car taken.
Thats what I think happened to him. I think he was on his way through from another state ...
carolwood
12-17-2008, 10:02 AM
I think everyone has a right to know who they are. I have lived with this all my life. My father comes from a family of 18. He was the only child to my grandmother and grandfather, who divorced when he was just a baby. He was raised by his grandparents(mothers side), whom I loved dearly. They lived til the 90's. (we had a large 5 generation family) I knew my grandmother's people well, but on my grandfather's side, knew hardly anything about them, and my grandfather died when I was young, so this made things worst. I know I have on my grandfather's side, 14 aunts and uncles, that I still know hardly anything about, except names and a few childhood memories. I guess that's why I do genealogy research, to know where I come from. Why I have blue green eyes. Who I look like. Why I had white hair, and now I have brown. And I know it so well, I can spot one if I see them. I know they are related to me, because the line on my father's side is so strong. Just ranting and bringing new thoughts to the board. That's why I so thrilled about the Y-DNA, may give us a last name to work with. Then we can turn to census records, marriage records, tax records, etc. I have a acount at ancestry, can't wait to get this info.
Mysterylover
12-17-2008, 10:20 AM
I completely agree with you. I had to step back awhile ago because I got so frustrated at the complete lack of feedback. Sorry (I mean no disrespect), but if I had this many people spending so much of their time on helping me I would answer any question they asked and be beyond grateful. I think it was mentioned months ago that BK would be setting up an account to answer some of the questions and every time I check back people are spinning their wheels with absolutely no input and no answers to their questions.
I wonder if Dr. Phil washed his hands because of lack of response...who knows? To me it seems that BK wants a new SS# and that is all.
Frankly, his lack of interest in what people are doing on this site has made me question his intentions.
I hope I am wrong but it made me feel better to have gotten this off my chest. I will resume my "step back" now and hope for the best for BK........
Voice4...think about this,
what IF he has remembered quite a bit about his past and it isn't good, so he knows it's better to keep it to himself..?
dreamweaver
12-17-2008, 10:51 AM
I have been reading the last few posts.
BK; I know he answered posts on the Dr Phil show. He even posted his email address there.
I just asked this week if we, Websleuths, could set up a thread, with the questions that have been asked over and over. The thread would be locked except for BK and the moderators. BK could come in and answer questions at any time.
That way, BK is not inudated with all sorts of questions.
So far, I have not heard back. I do not know if believe09 has heard back from BK or not.
DBinMA
12-17-2008, 10:58 AM
I'm not going to pretend to have 1/10 of the smarts that most people have here at Websleuths but I think about this case a lot. I really have to believe that no one is looking hard for BK, in my opinion that's most likely because 1) The people that would/should be looking for him had a part in this and have no desire for him to get his memory back 2) That he laid the groundwork for his disappearance.... now by that I don't mean that he is a fraud simply that he had intentions of going somewhere new, starting a new life and something went wrong but no one is looking because they expected him to be gone. I think either of those scenarios fit with the fact that trauma can be involved with amnesia, we could be dealing with one trauma as in scenario #1 or multiple traumas which could be the case in scenario #2.
I think when this case is solved we will find ourselves with another crime of one kind or another. The third option which has popped into my mind, but I don't hold much credence with it is that someone has taken his identity. If he's a wealthy man, perhaps he had a wife who is now living high on the hog with his $$ and a new man using his identity.
dreamweaver
12-17-2008, 11:06 AM
Voice4...think about this,
what IF he has remembered quite a bit about his past and it isn't good, so he knows it's better to keep it to himself..?
------------------------------------------------------
I have wondered about this also. Perhaps, he keeps remembering bits and pieces and it does not fit with who he thinks he is now.
OR
BK remembers things about the assault and beating and being left for dead and is shocked at why. Maybe he sees the faces of those who savagely attacked him? You would think, then he would tell the FBI and get them involved, but maybe he is afraid.
OR
Maybe he knew the attackers? And that scares him more.
I hope he is in the care of a psychologist or psychiatrist who specializes in amenesia/fugue state.
dreamweaver
12-17-2008, 11:08 AM
I'm not going to pretend to have 1/10 of the smarts that most people have here at Websleuths but I think about this case a lot. I really have to believe that no one is looking hard for BK, in my opinion that's most likely because 1) The people that would/should be looking for him had a part in this and have no desire for him to get his memory back 2) That he laid the groundwork for his disappearance.... now by that I don't mean that he is a fraud simply that he had intentions of going somewhere new, starting a new life and something went wrong but no one is looking because they expected him to be gone. I think either of those scenarios fit with the fact that trauma can be involved with amnesia, we could be dealing with one trauma as in scenario #1 or multiple traumas which could be the case in scenario #2.
I think when this case is solved we will find ourselves with another crime of one kind or another. The third option which has popped into my mind, but I don't hold much credence with it is that someone has taken his identity. If he's a wealthy man, perhaps he had a wife who is now living high on the hog with his $$ and a new man using his identity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So glad we have some new theories! Thanks so much.
Voice4theSilent
12-17-2008, 07:34 PM
I have been reading the last few posts.
BK; I know he answered posts on the Dr Phil show. He even posted his email address there.
I just asked this week if we, Websleuths, could set up a thread, with the questions that have been asked over and over. The thread would be locked except for BK and the moderators. BK could come in and answer questions at any time.
That way, BK is not inudated with all sorts of questions.
So far, I have not heard back. I do not know if believe09 has heard back from BK or not.
I asked for the same thing over a month ago to no avail. There was a thread started on here for questions that we were hoping BK would answer. The questions submitted to him were picked through (mine were ignored as mostly they had to do with his attack and the circumstances surrounding it...which I personally don't think he wants to discuss for some reason BUT I think that incident, how he was found and his physical characteristics at the time are the best evidence of why he was there and where he came from) and the rest were ignored or at least not answererd. To my knowledge he answered a few early on and that was all.
Serial numbers on the pin in his elbow has been brought up by several people in the past and the response was along the lines of it is ridiculous to expect him to "mutilate" himself for serial numbers that might not even exist (I agree, though I think "mutilate" is a bit strong of a word for such a surgery.)
I would love to know if he has access to his medical records finally since the Dr. Phil show is done with him. Also, if he has ever spoke to the paramedics who discovered him (there was a lady first responder that the Dr. Phil show interviewed who seems to have a vivid recollection of finding him and probably remembers his physical description, etc. very well.) Last, what other memories he has. He has to have more than just the few things we know, regardless of how painful, embarassing, etc. We are not here to judge but to help and not having all the information is worthless, IMHO.
ASU2USC
12-17-2008, 08:27 PM
I don't know whether this is the right thread, and I am mainly a lurker here, but I just had an idea. Has anyone checked unclaimed property in Colorado and Indiana? I know we don't have a name, but maybe check variations of Benjaman or Kyle, or whatever other names he has said are familiar to him? If he had, for instance, money in a bank account, or a utility deposit, the company might have turned it over to the state's unclaimed property department after he went missing.
Voice4theSilent
12-17-2008, 09:07 PM
Voice4...think about this,
what IF he has remembered quite a bit about his past and it isn't good, so he knows it's better to keep it to himself..?
That is definitely a possibility! If so, there are a lot of people, again, spinning their wheels in directions that BK may know aren't useful. I really hope he responds to some of the questions posted by those on here spending so much of their own time doing so much for him!
Voice4theSilent
12-17-2008, 09:11 PM
I don't know whether this is the right thread, and I am mainly a lurker here, but I just had an idea. Has anyone checked unclaimed property in Colorado and Indiana? I know we don't have a name, but maybe check variations of Benjaman or Kyle, or whatever other names he has said are familiar to him? If he had, for instance, money in a bank account, or a utility deposit, the company might have turned it over to the state's unclaimed property department after he went missing.
Was the name "Kyle" familiar to him or did he just make it up to go with the initials of Burger King. If he made it up out of thin air and for no feeling of any significance then I am afraid searching that name in connection with BK will not lead anywhere.
Does anyone know if there is a way to search for unclaimed property?
carolwood
12-18-2008, 12:15 AM
I have searched unclaimed Indiana BENJAMAN, None, but BENJAMIN, plenty and a few good ideas came out of this, I am on the trail.....
dreamweaver
12-18-2008, 03:59 AM
Was the name "Kyle" familiar to him or did he just make it up to go with the initials of Burger King. If he made it up out of thin air and for no feeling of any significance then I am afraid searching that name in connection with BK will not lead anywhere.
Does anyone know if there is a way to search for unclaimed property?
----------------------------------------------------------
Last name Kyle was not familiar to him. He just picked it out.
There has to be a way to search for unclaimed property. I don't know it, but I will check on line.
carolwood
12-18-2008, 06:20 PM
Dream, I could use some help here. if you could do a search for colorado unclaimed property, I have done indiana on benjaman/benjamin, and maybe we can compare what we have found and see if any of these names match. I will go back and print them tonight and report them here. So we could have bunches of eyes on this. There were a couple, age wise, that could be a possibility. It didn't have the age in the unclaimed property, so I checked in the white pages, and some of them had ages on there, that's how I was able to get ages, providing these are the right people.
carolwood
12-18-2008, 06:22 PM
Oh, and I also checked the SSDI on a couple to see if they had passed away, but this was null. But I would like to check all of them with SSDI
dreamweaver
12-18-2008, 11:42 PM
Dream, I could use some help here. if you could do a search for colorado unclaimed property, I have done indiana on benjaman/benjamin, and maybe we can compare what we have found and see if any of these names match. I will go back and print them tonight and report them here. So we could have bunches of eyes on this. There were a couple, age wise, that could be a possibility. It didn't have the age in the unclaimed property, so I checked in the white pages, and some of them had ages on there, that's how I was able to get ages, providing these are the right people.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hi. I started the CO search. Without a real name, it is tricky to do. Of course, if we knew his name, it would not be an issue.
I must be getting tired. What with BK searches and another forum and Christmas to do lists, and well, you know.
Also, I put an email into my ex; he is an accountant and I thought he might know about if someone has not paid taxes for 4 years, is there a list? Thinking if there was, then maybe the FBI Bill K, could help with this.
I also have a question into my electric company, asking if someone just stopped paying their bill, would they do the shut off, pursue getting their money, AND would they do a well being check? Especially if their mail starts to be returned. Would they have the police check out the residence?
No answer yet.
Will call my local post office tomorrow, ask about when mail piles up, what do they do? Do they file any kind of report?
dreamweaver
12-27-2008, 08:48 PM
MORE THEORIES:
BK has no family, no friends, is retired or self employed, lives in a remote house. He leaves on vacation. No one thinks anything of him being gone.
//what happened to his mail, his electric bill, his mortgage, etc?//
BK has some family and some friends. He is retired. He says he is going to the GA. coast and do some traveling. He has arranged things to be paid at his home.
He leaves. It is 4 yrs later.
// why has no one said, wow, ben has been gone over 4 yrs, wonder what is going on with him?//
BK just got divorced. He has no children. He has not seen siblings in years. His neighbors mind their own business. He takes off for a birthday vacation. He does not come back.
//why wouldn't the bank or the post office or someone notify someone//
BK is gay. He takes off for an ocean vacation. He does not return.
His partner files a missing persons report.
//But, according to an article I just read, LE do not always respond or even take a missing person report from a partner.//
BK is a covert spy. He has retired. But he can't, not really. Someone, from his covert life, finds him in Richmond Hill, beats him, strips him naked, leaves him like trash next to a dumpster.
//they are thrilled he has lost his memory. they sanitize his house.
//his fingerprints do not show up on any database because he worked for a black ops covert agency.//
Okay. That is a little out there. But something had to happen, somehow, someway.
BK has no wife, no children. He lives a mostly solitary life. He travels in his job. He retires at 55. He decides to do some more traveling, go to GA. first to see the ocean, then head off to other places he has wanted to see. But, in Richmond Hill, someone, for some unknown reason, attacks him and leaves him for dead. They take his car and drive it into a river.
// car? no abandoned car leads from 2004 ever followed up on, that i can find out.//
Well, enough theorizing for today.
What do you think?
dreamweaver
12-27-2008, 08:53 PM
Oh, uh, one more theory.
BK has been a priest. He decides to leave the priesthood. Or he decides to retire. His housing, etc has always been taken care of.
He heads out to the ocean, Savannah, GA. area. There is a Catholic spiritual retreat that month. (there is, i have the link).
He goes out for dinner. Someone starts harrassing him. Or they decide to rob him.
It goes too far and he is beaten severely. He is left out in the sun for a day, robbing him of his eyesight and allowing the fire ants bites to completely cover his body.
The attackers decide to dump his body at a dumpster, including his clothing, etc. He is too heavy to get into the dumpster, so they leave him behind the dumpster and throw his clothing, i.d. away.
They take his car and drive it into a lake, quarry, somewhere. Or they part it out, get some more money for it.
carolwood
12-27-2008, 11:07 PM
I still say this, "why would anyone want to go into an area that a hurricane just came thru?", unless to work, volunteer, or get "someone" they know out because another one is coming...and the last one(hur. charley) was bad enough...or even just checking on an elderly at a nursing home..
I really don't think he is vacationing.
Theory: Self Employed...contractor...or tree cutter...or debris remover...or insurance claims adjuster...this is what I think of with hurricanes.
Theory: Employed...lineman(works for electrical company, these come from all over the country, and usually the local electrical companies will have a list of which electrical companies helped them during the time)...or insurance agent(you can find the insurance companies that have license to do business with the state, and contact them)
If he was going in to help, I believe he was self employed.
If he was going in to volunteer, American Red Cross possibly would have records, but then you would have to find what chapter he came from(this may take lots of time)
If he was coming to get an elder family member out or even just checking in on a elderly family member, maybe they don't read a newspaper or even watch tv, lets say they are in a nursing home...(this is something that is a high possiblity...nursing home...I say this because I have a great uncle that I am in charge of at a nursing home. When they evacuate for the hurricanes, when he has to go to the hospital, when he falls, they call me. This is an area that I think NB could take care of with a couple of phone calls to the area nursing homes, finding out if any of the patients there have had no contact with there children, nephews, etc. since 2004, who are the nursing homes contact to call when something happens to one of their patients. Being that she is a nurse, this would be easier for her to do. If Ben still has a social worker, this is something I am sure she could get also.
Then I think also, not only should the state of Georgia be checked, but also Florida.
carolwood
12-27-2008, 11:11 PM
I also believe if he was on vacation, he would have went further up to say Murtle Beach, with the hurricane.
Peliman
12-28-2008, 02:18 AM
I also believe if he was on vacation, he would have went further up to say Murtle Beach, with the hurricane.
Wow you all are very good, I was asking myself the same questions. On or about the time he was found a new electrical generation plant was close to completion, located at Plant McIntosh near the Savannah river in well my county.
It was built by Savannah Electric for Georgia power and light. It was a major construction project employing large numbers of sub-contra tors and their employees. They came from all over the country. They stayed in rented homes, hotels along I-95 and into S.C. Hardeeville area. Some stayed in RV's.
There is also a homeless contingent near where he was found (somewhere out there) near I-95 within one exit or two which the authorities are aware of but don't bother with them unless they break laws.
carolwood
12-28-2008, 03:02 AM
Hi Peliman, welcome to WS. I am a newbie too, been only over a month. I live in hurricane city too. I know what it is like to be in a hurricane and leave when a bad one is coming. Done it most all my life. If there has been major destruction in a city, you cannot go in until the authorities let you in(if national guard is in the city, residents who left are not aloud back in the city until it is clear of debris, trees, powerlines) or if you are going in to work. Could be weeks or month. If you live in Georgia on the coast, you know what I mean. Hurricane charley passed thru your area aug 13th are so, looks as though it was offshore, but skimming the coast, so west side should have been minimal damage, but I don't know, haven't read everything on Charley.
Peliman
12-28-2008, 03:12 AM
Hi Peliman, welcome to WS. I am a newbie too, been only over a month. I live in hurricane city too. I know what it is like to be in a hurricane and leave when a bad one is coming. Done it most all my life. If there has been major destruction in a city, you cannot go in until the authorities let you in(if national guard is in the city, residents who left are not aloud back in the city until it is clear of debris, trees, powerlines) or if you are going in to work. Could be weeks or month. If you live in Georgia on the coast, you know what I mean. Hurricane charley passed thru your area aug 13th are so, looks as though it was offshore, but skimming the coast, so west side should have been minimal damage, but I don't know, haven't read everything on Charley.
Hello carol, I was raised in S. Fla. and very familiar with them. While there have been close calls here (Savannah), nothing of any substance (storm wise) has affected this area in years. Some power outages on occasion.
If I remember correctly, everyone was back to work the next day. (hah y'all pressing my memory cells)
carolwood
12-28-2008, 10:41 AM
Peliman, See this is what we need, memory cells, so now I lean more to the power plant thing. Do you think you can do a local research and find out who helped Savannah Power build the plant? I will do a google and see what comes up. This is something I definetly could work on, as I am familiar with many construction firms who do this type of construction. Stone & Webster, Brown & Root, Westinghouse, are just a few who I can think of that build power plants.(not sure if the are still these names, but some form of these companies are still around, my husband has been out of this field since 2001) Sure worth a try. Thanks
Peliman
12-28-2008, 11:12 AM
Peliman, See this is what we need, memory cells, so now I lean more to the power plant thing. Do you think you can do a local research and find out who helped Savannah Power build the plant? I will do a google and see what comes up. This is something I definetly could work on, as I am familiar with many construction firms who do this type of construction. Stone & Webster, Brown & Root, Westinghouse, are just a few who I can think of that build power plants.(not sure if the are still these names, but some form of these companies are still around, my husband has been out of this field since 2001) Sure worth a try. Thanks
Flashes a smile at carol, yesm I can give you some info and correct myself some, this is testing me. The main people in charge of construction was "Southern Company" While Southern Co was in charge and had their own employees they Sub-contracted (during the construction) two different major industrial construction firms.
For the life of me I can't remember the construction Co. that built the 1ST half. They and all employees were put off site for safety troubles. The contract was awarded oddly enough to BE&K who is now owned by KBR. Here's a link that may help, there were several other smaller sub-contractors depending on which phase was being constructed. I don't know what happened to the people in the beginning 50%. I can't remember dates too well either but the construction appears to have been under full motion at the time he was found.
BE&K and plant info (http://www.bek.com/projectDetails.asp?marketId=1&servicesId=§ionId=2&id=37)
carolwood
12-28-2008, 08:51 PM
Thanks so much Peliman, I am familiar with BE & K and KBR is the new Brown & Root, I do believe.(I think it is Kellog Brown & Root, don't quote me though) Thanks, thanks
Peliman
12-29-2008, 06:01 AM
Thanks so much Peliman, I am familiar with BE & K and KBR is the new Brown & Root, I do believe.(I think it is Kellog Brown & Root, don't quote me though) Thanks, thanks
Welcome carol
Here's some more info for you, the 1st half of the construction was handled by "W.G. Yates & Sons Construction Co" before BE&K completed the project. Southern Co. handled all contracts. Tommy Duncan was the main man to contact at Southern Co. - hope all that helps.
Coffeelover
12-29-2008, 08:46 AM
First post, but I've been lurking for months! :seeya:
I'm thinking that he could have been a single guy living in a foreign country and took a trip back to the US. Maybe to an inland city then he felt the desire to go out to the ocean. Perhaps he was living in English Canada, Great Britain, the Caribbean, etc. and the mail piling up, unpaid mortgage took place somewhere else. Do we know if he speaks another language?
tatertot
12-29-2008, 08:54 AM
I don't believe BK's bills are still being paid automatically from his bank account four years after his disappearance. He'd have to have a considerable amount in his bank account for that to be possible, and most people just don't have that much money saved up. Plus, his taxes presumably haven't been filed in at least four years, as you can't pay those automatically.
I think he was likely a renter rather than a home owner, and that he traveled often for his job and was seldom home. Maybe he was gone so much that he only rented a storage unit instead of an apartment. From online research, it appears that if a rented home is abandoned by the tenant with his belongings still inside, the landlord is required to write him a letter saying where his belongings can be retrieved, what deadline there is for retrieval and whether there are any storage/transportation costs that must be paid before he gets it back. The landlord can't just shovel it to the curb on the next trash day. So if he was single and had no roommates, his things were likely discarded or sold within a few months at most of his disappearance. If he was using a storage unit, the lock was likely cut off soon after he missed his payments and the contents auctioned off.
What's strange is that I couldn't find any law requiring a landlord to report his tenant missing even if he found his drivers license and other important documents among the abandoned property in the house. It seems that landlords often report their tenants missing anyway, because I've seen a few missing persons cases on Doe Network and other sites that specifically mention the landlord was the first to miss the individual.
carolwood
12-29-2008, 11:41 AM
Welcome carol
Here's some more info for you, the 1st half of the construction was handled by "W.G. Yates & Sons Construction Co" before BE&K completed the project. Southern Co. handled all contracts. Tommy Duncan was the main man to contact at Southern Co. - hope all that helps.
Thanks again Peliman, I came up with this also:
Dan Tennison, principal project manager for Southern LNG.
Construction began in June 2003, and there's an average of 120 workers on site. Another 150 workers are building the new docking facilities.
(so about 270 workers, probably came into the area to work, sound about right to you?)
Then I found that Be&k took over the project in 5-2004 at about 50% completion.
I also read that this was suppose to be a "local hiring" job, but I know alot of times it just doesn't turn out this way because of OSHA requirements and they have to hire men with the 40 hr. certificates, who may just need the 8 hr. fresher course.
carolwood
12-29-2008, 11:47 AM
Welcome coffeelover and tatertot. Glad to have more theories.
Peliman
12-29-2008, 10:32 PM
Thanks again Peliman, I came up with this also:
Dan Tennison, principal project manager for Southern LNG.
This does not ring a bell, there were turnovers.
Construction began in June 2003, and there's an average of 120 workers on site. Another 150 workers are building the new docking facilities.
(so about 270 workers, probably came into the area to work, sound about right to you?)
Then I found that Be&k took over the project in 5-2004 at about 50% completion.
I also read that this was suppose to be a "local hiring" job, but I know alot of times it just doesn't turn out this way because of OSHA requirements and they have to hire men with the 40 hr. certificates, who may just need the 8 hr. fresher course.
You do have a good grasp of this industry :clap: I'm going to keep painting here because it's a good possibility BK had some connection to the Plant McIntosh project. Trying to put some perspective on this.
The plant itself is not located in Savannah, it's in a very remote location maybe 15 miles west of I-95 along the Savannah river in Effingham county.
Forget having locals who had qualifications and experience, that's just not the case. People were recruited from across the country. Those numbers may reflect the beginning of construction but they were the ground crew which when ground work was complete, they were laid off or sent to other projects.
In comes above ground crews from across they country, maybe building to 450 plus of various skilled trades. Work, build work, construction accident. Operations suspended, OSHA breathes hot down everyones neck. Construction is shut down and delayed, everyone and their equipment and tools are put off site. Five hundred people get the thanks for serving, leave only your foot prints at the gate Drive safe wherever you came from.
BK&E is contracted to complete construction, massive hiring mostly from out of state. With other contractors involved, the site may average 700 workers per day.
There is no way Efffingham county could provide a place for so many workers to sleep and off hours. Not to mention requirements for workers to receive sub-pay the hotels around I-95 and Rt. 21 became full. It was a large churn of workers from out of state.
believe09
12-29-2008, 10:53 PM
This does not ring a bell, there were turnovers.
You do have a good grasp of this industry :clap: I'm going to keep painting here because it's a good possibility BK had some connection to the Plant McIntosh project. Trying to put some perspective on this.
The plant itself is not located in Savannah, it's in a very remote location maybe 15 miles west of I-95 along the Savannah river in Effingham county.
Forget having locals who had qualifications and experience, that's just not the case. People were recruited from across the country. Those numbers may reflect the beginning of construction but they were the ground crew which when ground work was complete, they were laid off or sent to other projects.
In comes above ground crews from across they country, maybe building to 450 plus of various skilled trades. Work, build work, construction accident. Operations suspended, OSHA breathes hot down everyones neck. Construction is shut down and delayed, everyone and their equipment and tools are put off site. Five hundred people get the thanks for serving, leave only your foot prints at the gate Drive safe wherever you came from.
BK&E is contracted to complete construction, massive hiring mostly from out of state. With other contractors involved, the site may average 700 workers per day.
There is no way Efffingham county could provide a place for so many workers to sleep and off hours. Not to mention requirements for workers to receive sub-pay the hotels around I-95 and Rt. 21 became full. It was a large churn of workers from out of state.
Sounds like sending HR a note with the flyer link might make sense....anyone game??
carolwood
12-29-2008, 11:07 PM
Peliman, my hubby is one of the best Dozer operators around. I have traveled all over the central US to east coast, and drove most of it.
Talking about the construction accidents, 3 in a row under Yates, I think in 2003. This must have cause the shut down.
Then in May 2004, BE&K comes in and Benjaman is found 8/2004.
Wow 700 a day employees, do you know if they had to have badges with photo on it? Hum, wondering if this info is still available?
carolwood
12-29-2008, 11:10 PM
I am game Believe, just trying to narrow who to send it too, or better yet, if they had Photo Id Cards, who would have handled this. ps did you read your new message i sent?
believe09
12-29-2008, 11:13 PM
I am game Believe, just trying to narrow who to send it too, or better yet, if they had Photo Id Cards, who would have handled this. ps did you read your new message i sent?
I PM'd you back-in the interest of transparency, let's mention that it was regarding BK's computer and how to improve his ability to be online, OK?? :)
believe09
12-29-2008, 11:14 PM
Peliman, are you familiar with any employees who might be able to guide us as to where to send a letter regarding BK's possible association??
Peliman
12-29-2008, 11:23 PM
Peliman, my hubby is one of the best Dozer operators around. I have traveled all over the central US to east coast, and drove most of it.
Talking about the construction accidents, 3 in a row under Yates, I think in 2003. This must have cause the shut down.
Hi carol,
Say hey to your hubby for me.
Yes exactly what caused the shut down. The accidents were spread out over time. The last happening maybe 3 weeks before BE&K arrived. Another 6 weeks of hiring and training and testing. certifications, safety, etc.
Then in May 2004, BE&K comes in and Benjaman is found 8/2004.
Wow 700 a day employees, do you know if they had to have badges with photo on it? Hum, wondering if this info is still available?
Badging was a requirement but I doubt the info is available. BE&K wasn't the only game on site. I wouldn't know who's HR to contact, there would be quite a few.
I also want to add, the alligators would probably find the FBI before the FBI located this plant. It's that remote and mostly unknown.
carolwood
12-29-2008, 11:31 PM
Ok, Peliman, I will tell hubby hello. I think what I will do is contact your lead, and see if we can find out which contractors where in the plant in 8/2004 and go from there. I think this would take a phone call, so I will make attempt tomorrow and see what we can come up with. Where would your lead be located? And a possible number? If not, I can see what I come up with in the articles. Thanks
Peliman
12-29-2008, 11:35 PM
Peliman, are you familiar with any employees who might be able to guide us as to where to send a letter regarding BK's possible association??
hmmm, other than what I'm providing it does get very mixed. Southern Company (Tommy Duncan) huge undertaking and spread thruout the state. The site itself is reduced to operators and management who probably were not there during construction. Yates, BE&K, G.E., several other companies. Southern Co. holds all contracts but I doubt they would release a list. Probably 30 people run the site now for total 24/7 operations.
Georgia Power
Peliman
12-29-2008, 11:39 PM
Ok, Peliman, I will tell hubby hello. I think what I will do is contact your lead, and see if we can find out which contractors where in the plant in 8/2004 and go from there. I think this would take a phone call, so I will make attempt tomorrow and see what we can come up with. Where would your lead be located? And a possible number? If not, I can see what I come up with in the articles. Thanks
I really think it's going to take BK to review this discussion because I don't think it's possible to cover everyone involved. It does get very convoluted.
carolwood
12-29-2008, 11:52 PM
hmmm, other than what I'm providing it does get very mixed. Southern Company (Tommy Duncan) huge undertaking and spread thruout the state. The site itself is reduced to operators and management who probably were not there during construction. Yates, BE&K, G.E., several other companies. Southern Co. holds all contracts but I doubt they would release a list. Probably 30 people run the site now for total 24/7 operations.
Georgia Power
I will try anyway. If I get nowhere, believe, do you think FBI Bill would take this on. I do think this is a very good lead to finding Ben's id. And I bet if they still have these records (most businesses keep records for 10 years) we may just find BEN :woohoo:
snowme
12-30-2008, 03:10 AM
Wow, you guys! :clap:
Welcomes to coffeelover and tatertot!
carolwood
12-30-2008, 11:44 PM
After talking with a friend who is still in the business, he assumes BE&K would be the first place to look. Usually, he said, something this big would require a safety firm, and they would keep all the records.
Peliman
12-31-2008, 12:41 AM
After talking with a friend who is still in the business, he assumes BE&K would be the first place to look. Usually, he said, something this big would require a safety firm, and they would keep all the records.
Puzzling I know, here's what I can share. BE&K had a estimated 16 man safety crew. HR for BE&K did badging for BE&K. Southern Co. did badging for others. Other companies badged their own crews.
I can tell you at this point if anyone was found 3 feet above the ground not harnessed and tied off, they were walked out the gate. Thank-you, drive safe, leave only your footprints.
Some employees from Yates hung around and were hired by BE&K.
It almost creates the perfect storm for someone with amnesia to be lost in the big bad world.
carolwood
12-31-2008, 01:17 AM
I agree Peliman. Maybe he didn't get hired back? Some of his friends did. Still why no one reported him missing, unless they thought he left to go home. But leave your belongs behind, unless he just didn't have much, but a bag. And we will probably never know, it could be he was waiting on his ride back to home or better yet, hitchiking back to where ever. Could have been waiting on a cab.
When my hubby would go out of town, he brought 1 large maybe 1 small bag. Flew in and out of everywhere, usa.
dreamweaver
12-31-2008, 03:31 PM
I agree Peliman. Maybe he didn't get hired back? Some of his friends did. Still why no one reported him missing, unless they thought he left to go home. But leave your belongs behind, unless he just didn't have much, but a bag. And we will probably never know, it could be he was waiting on his ride back to home or better yet, hitchiking back to where ever. Could have been waiting on a cab.
When my hubby would go out of town, he brought 1 large maybe 1 small bag. Flew in and out of everywhere, usa.
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Just thinking out loud here. Read over the great ideas carolwood and peliman have come up with.
Do these men have to be bonded? If they do, do they have to be fingerprinted? Do those records have to be kept?
Do these men have to have a current driver's license? Do they have to have a heavy equipment operator's license?
If so, do they keep copies of these?
Who paid these men? Paid from all the small companies?
But, would the large company keep payroll information for tax purposes?
Maybe they could access ALL the payroll records from
Jan. 2004 til Sept. 2004.?
carolwood
01-01-2009, 02:02 AM
I don't think the men would have to be bonded. The companies would. Fingerprints is a question I will ask about. I would think for a certain amount of years, records would have to be kept. Yes, they have to have driver's license. Equipment operators license would be done by the company, it's called a certification, and the more you have to more $$ you make. I would think for a certain amount of time records would have to be kept.
Payroll, yes, would have to keep for 10 years. Yates and Sons had the job until 3-2004, then because of the 3 accidents, BE&K took over in 5-2004. So now we are talking 2 large companies, that may have had several smaller contractors doing things with there own men. Two companies, good guess, probably 15 - 20 smaller contractors, I am guessing. So if this is the case, then it's not to bad of a task. It would be for Yates and BE&K to release this information. I don't know if they would.
:blowkiss:
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
carolwood
01-01-2009, 02:42 AM
OMG, I just thought of something. BANKS and CHECK CASHING PLACES, most of these do fingerprinting and photo's in my state, what about Georgia? How many are in the area of where BEN was found?
carolwood
01-01-2009, 02:45 AM
AND, what if BEN was on his way home and had closed out his account at a local BANK he was using to cash his checks and keep a small savings? They would have this infomation.
snowme
01-01-2009, 03:36 AM
AND, what if BEN was on his way home and had closed out his account at a local BANK he was using to cash his checks and keep a small savings? They would have this infomation.
This could lead to an explanation of why Benjaman was found beaten behind that dumpster. If someone saw the amount of money he could have had on him (say he was paying for a meal at the burger king and the cash was seen) or if they saw him during the transaction at the bank and followed him to the area. Robbery.
(You better be snoozin' now, Carol! lol.... I think our minds are most clear when we are ready to drift off to sleep.)
Peliman
01-01-2009, 07:54 AM
Sheeesh ya'll got more questions than I have answers for. I'm wondering burger kings towing policy if they have an abandon vehicle in their parking lot. Who might tow it to where, if unclaimed it would be considered abandon and ownerships to the impound lot maybe. IDK
carolwood
01-01-2009, 10:53 AM
Snowme, I finally made it to bed around 3 central. Had to be back up by 8 to finish getting my stuff ready for today. Towing policy, I have a friend in the business, can him a call on monday. I think they have to hold it for so long, in the process run the vin# to see if it may be stolen, check for insurance cards, call the insurance company see if they had a lien, if so, then they would probably contact whoever financed the vehicle and let them know they have it. In louisiana it is mandatory to have auto insurance, and when it is financed, the insurance company has to know, they have to send a copy of your insurance to whoever financed the vehicle, because it has to tote full coverage, until it is paid for. Not sure how other states work with the insurance. Also in Louisiana, if your vehicle becomes unisured, you get a nice letter from the state, then you have to prove to the state you have insurance. If you cannot prove there is insurance, I am sure you are sent another letter to turn it the tags on the vehicle. Then I am sure if the tags are not turned it, they may come to you, or if the vehicle is caught on the road, may be impounded. I would be willing to bet, any vehicle that is financed for so many years, had to keep full coverage insurance until it is paid for. Also when the vin# was run, it would state who owned the car, if it had a lien. I just paid one of ours off last year, and it definetly states on the title it had a lien with so and so, and the lien was satisfied(paid off). This was a vehicle that I purchased brand new, and financed through an out of state bank.
carolwood
01-01-2009, 11:10 AM
I just had a thought about running the veh vin#, the local pd usually has a certain company that picks up vehicles for them. local pd may still have a record of a vehicle being picked up around the time BEN was found. also, company that does this for local pd may still have vehicle unless it had the above complications, ie..financed.. but I think they would remember something like this... this is not a everyday thing...unless it is thought stolen.
What i am saying is, if a vehicle is stolen, you report to pd. Pd puts on a scan for a stolen vehilce. Hopefully it is found.
If it is not reported as a stolen vehicle, they find vehicle, have it towed by the company, company and pd work together to get information on the vehicle, they should come up with a least a name of a person and maybe insurance company. Try to contact owner, try to contact insurance, try to contact who financed, and go from there.
And this too. What if Ben had just purchased a used vehicle. It would have been in the process of being transfered. But whoever the vehicle was purchased from, the title and vin# would still be in there name. Say it is a small used car dealer. They would have this information about a vehicle...
If it was a personal buy, maybe the old owner would remember the person they had sold it to. I know I would keep a copy of all this transaction. Maybe not 4 years, but at least some amount of time, and I would sure know who I sold it to, especially if they called me and told me they had a vehicle at the impound lot to be picked up, because it was found abandoned. I would also talk to pd, knowing I just sold the car to someone, and see how long I would have to keep the vehicle, before I could do something with it again. Now you are talking probably months on end for all this to take place.
Peliman
01-01-2009, 04:31 PM
Welll I don't want to discount any theories. I was responding to one and it might require a P.I. to sort it out. All other theories could be just as valid. I'm going to ease off on it until BK himself shows interest.
snowme
01-01-2009, 05:36 PM
Carol, you covered alot bases there. In reading I was coming up with the thought of perhaps if he had come from out of state, perhaps by plane or bus, that perhaps he didn't have a car or if he got one to serve the purpose while there it would likely be a "dependable used" model that didn't take alot of cash and maybe even not a used car dealer type deal but a private sale. (I know I've lived in areas where work crews of this nature come from long distances for the work and often arrive without their own transportation... eventually carpooling with others either in a private vehicle or a company provided vehicle.)
Your thinking and life-experiences are flowing quite clearly to make these things a viable theory!
I just had a thought about running the veh vin#, the local pd usually has a certain company that picks up vehicles for them. local pd may still have a record of a vehicle being picked up around the time BEN was found. also, company that does this for local pd may still have vehicle unless it had the above complications, ie..financed.. but I think they would remember something like this... this is not a everyday thing...unless it is thought stolen.
What i am saying is, if a vehicle is stolen, you report to pd. Pd puts on a scan for a stolen vehilce. Hopefully it is found.
If it is not reported as a stolen vehicle, they find vehicle, have it towed by the company, company and pd work together to get information on the vehicle, they should come up with a least a name of a person and maybe insurance company. Try to contact owner, try to contact insurance, try to contact who financed, and go from there.
And this too. What if Ben had just purchased a used vehicle. It would have been in the process of being transfered. But whoever the vehicle was purchased from, the title and vin# would still be in there name. Say it is a small used car dealer. They would have this information about a vehicle...
If it was a personal buy, maybe the old owner would remember the person they had sold it to. I know I would keep a copy of all this transaction. Maybe not 4 years, but at least some amount of time, and I would sure know who I sold it to, especially if they called me and told me they had a vehicle at the impound lot to be picked up, because it was found abandoned. I would also talk to pd, knowing I just sold the car to someone, and see how long I would have to keep the vehicle, before I could do something with it again. Now you are talking probably months on end for all this to take place.
carolwood
01-01-2009, 06:24 PM
JUST SOME THOUGHTS...
Please don't give up. We are going good, has my memory cells are poping too. I understand, as I even get hung a time or two, but I think BEN/Nurse Betty are at least reading what we have here on this board, as often as possible.
I for one, have a 67 year old mother, who has a computer at home, and knows nothing about it, not even how to turn it on. I have tried to teach her the basics and she wants to learn, but time doesn't allow, as she still works full time. (PS, she's had a computer for at least 10 years)
I have to remind myself now and then, that BEN does not have a SS. He has to pick up odd jobs that pay cash, not a check, cash. These are few and far between.
It may be a job he has no recollection of, and has to learn his job and to make ends meet, probably working a 10 -12 hr. a day, just to make ends meet.
Just like a computer. I remember when I was in school, I took a typing class(didn't even know about computers). It took me at least 1/2 the school year to learn the keyboard, the other 1/2 trying to type without looking at the keyboard, but this was my interest, not many kids took typing, especially not boys. But they sure too home ec.
Today, it is pretty much a requirement for kids to have a computer class in school.
My husband is 54, construction man, has no interest what so ever in the computer, execpt to ask me, "Honey, could you look for a part for my tractor?" Well, thank goodness I know a little bit about tractors and computers.
We talked about this New Years' Eve. What would these kids today do, if they lived in the 80's? Thirty-year-olds probably have no concept on how we lived, and that's not too many years difference from my age, 46.
So think about BEN, how he must feel, having to learn a new life over again. Leaning a computer, a job, how the government works, etc.
Back in his day, they got up at 4 a.m. to feed the cows, milk them, go to school, and probably had to walk, maybe barefooted maybe not, get home from school, feed the cows, chickens, work in the garden, cut some firewood, cut the grass, and I am not talking about a gas push mower, because back then the money just wasn't there. They had to grow and raise there own food.
So with all that said, I am not BEN, but I am a person who reads alot of history.
I can tell you, if everything would shut down tomorrow(no gas, no electric, no water, no vehicle) except life and what is in my pantry, I could live it, and live it well. I can milk a cow, hunt, drill a water well (never done this, but I am sure I can do it), grow a garden, ride a bike, walk, barter.
I would even in time, have a computer running without electricity. Might not be able to get online for quite sometime, but I would have my computer. I guess that's what some of us stay at home moms do, learn things on the computer. LOL, I remember Y2K, boy was I prepared. Took me about a year to clean out the pantry.
I hope everyone has had a good New Years' day, Peace,
carolwood
01-01-2009, 09:22 PM
Yes, yes, your right on target. When my hubby worked out of town for years, he flew in flew out. Company had crew truck and vans they used, most of the time. They were paid per diem for the housing and food. Sometimes if the job was long enough, they would rent apartments for the men. The per diem was cut to be just for food, the company paid the housing...just depended on the job time and the company...
I know there are some companies out there that don't do this, my husband has never worked for a company that didn't pay per diem, when he worked out of town.
carolwood
01-01-2009, 09:34 PM
wow, it took nearly 3 hrs. to post it twice...sorry yall, not me, I guess they're starting to upgrade, I know I see some pretty stuff today....looks good
snowme
01-02-2009, 02:53 AM
You make some excellent points, Carol. thank you!
JUST SOME THOUGHTS...
Please don't give up. We are going good, has my memory cells are poping too. I understand, as I even get hung a time or two, but I think BEN/Nurse Betty are at least reading what we have here on this board, as often as possible.
I for one, have a 67 year old mother, who has a computer at home, and knows nothing about it, not even how to turn it on. I have tried to teach her the basics and she wants to learn, but time doesn't allow, as she still works full time. (PS, she's had a computer for at least 10 years)
I have to remind myself now and then, that BEN does not have a SS. He has to pick up odd jobs that pay cash, not a check, cash. These are few and far between.
It may be a job he has no recollection of, and has to learn his job and to make ends meet, probably working a 10 -12 hr. a day, just to make ends meet.
Just like a computer. I remember when I was in school, I took a typing class(didn't even know about computers). It took me at least 1/2 the school year to learn the keyboard, the other 1/2 trying to type without looking at the keyboard, but this was my interest, not many kids took typing, especially not boys. But they sure too home ec.
Today, it is pretty much a requirement for kids to have a computer class in school.
My husband is 54, construction man, has no interest what so ever in the computer, execpt to ask me, "Honey, could you look for a part for my tractor?" Well, thank goodness I know a little bit about tractors and computers.
We talked about this New Years' Eve. What would these kids today do, if they lived in the 80's? Thirty-year-olds probably have no concept on how we lived, and that's not too many years difference from my age, 46.
So think about BEN, how he must feel, having to learn a new life over again. Leaning a computer, a job, how the government works, etc.
Back in his day, they got up at 4 a.m. to feed the cows, milk them, go to school, and probably had to walk, maybe barefooted maybe not, get home from school, feed the cows, chickens, work in the garden, cut some firewood, cut the grass, and I am not talking about a gas push mower, because back then the money just wasn't there. They had to grow and raise there own food.
So with all that said, I am not BEN, but I am a person who reads alot of history.
I can tell you, if everything would shut down tomorrow(no gas, no electric, no water, no vehicle) except life and what is in my pantry, I could live it, and live it well. I can milk a cow, hunt, drill a water well (never done this, but I am sure I can do it), grow a garden, ride a bike, walk, barter.
I would even in time, have a computer running without electricity. Might not be able to get online for quite sometime, but I would have my computer. I guess that's what some of us stay at home moms do, learn things on the computer. LOL, I remember Y2K, boy was I prepared. Took me about a year to clean out the pantry.
I hope everyone has had a good New Years' day, Peace,
BeavisMom62
01-02-2009, 01:03 PM
sorry, i posted on the wrong thread:
I think Voice is right. Another thought I had: Bonnie (TS) Aug 12-14, hit fla and exited around New Jersey, Charlie (Hur) Aug 13- 14, hit fla. and exited around Mass. and Frances (Hur) Sept 5 - 9, hit fla. and exited around Penn. I live in louisiana. Charlie was a bad boy, and if you didn't leave, you wished you had. Now comes frances, cat 4 at one stage, I am thinking, get me out of here, I am not staying for another. Maybe BK had elderly family, maybe nursing home, maybe in there own home, he was trying to get out, before frances came in. Or maybe an insurance adjuster, I know here, we get insurance adjusters from everywhere, some just have to take a class, and they go to work. They are independent contractors, i think.
You can see the stats at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_At...l_Storm_Bonnie
Hi, Carol. Sorry I am only now responding to your post, haven't checked on BK thread lately. But your listing of the hurricanes of 2004 gave me a thought. Living in FL, I'll never forget that year, in my area (east central FL), we were hit by four of them. and I know alot of people, my son included, hit the road to GA to escape the hurricanes. Probably a far off possiblity since we don't have any BK/FL link, but what if he was in FL and ran to GA because of the hurricanes and got hit by one anyway? that is as far as my thought process goes, since we don't know what happened to land him behind the dumpster. Just a thought.
BeavisMom62
01-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Regarding the motorcycle angle...just up Highway 17 in the Myrtle Beach area there are large annual gatherings of motorcycle groups. I don't know the names or dates of these gatherings, but it should be easy enough to check with the S.C. tourism bureau or some such organization if someone wants to do this.
Thats a thought raeann. Also, just down Hwy 17, I believe between Savannah and Richmond Hill, I remember attending a motorcycle gathering. When I was in the army, I dated an MP who was also a biker. This was in 1982, I think. He took me to a gathering, I can't remember the exact location though, but I remember it was along a creek or small body of water, under a bridge, because I remember people jumping off of the bridge into the water. I don't know if it was a yearly thing or just impromptu but it was fun. I don't recall any "scary" bikers there, but there were a bunch of them, so who knows.
BeavisMom62
01-02-2009, 01:14 PM
Some really interesting and well thought ideas here. Just one thing though, sorry but I really don't think one would forget one was gay, people who lose their memory don't "forget" they're sexual preferences, it's what they are, right?
I'm not sure how this would apply to BK's case, but I seem to remember that some people, who have suffered strokes, when they recover they can speak a different language. Has anyone heard of this? I know BK didn't suffer a stroke, but amnesia and stroke do both affect the brain. Maybe it is possible to "forget" your preference? :waitasec:
BeavisMom62
01-02-2009, 01:34 PM
I still say this, "why would anyone want to go into an area that a hurricane just came thru?", unless to work, volunteer, or get "someone" they know out because another one is coming...and the last one(hur. charley) was bad enough...or even just checking on an elderly at a nursing home..
I really don't think he is vacationing.
Theory: Self Employed...contractor...or tree cutter...or debris remover...or insurance claims adjuster...this is what I think of with hurricanes.
Then I think also, not only should the state of Georgia be checked, but also Florida.
Respectfully snipped. That gave me another thought. My son used to work for a tree cutting company a few years ago. He used to look forward to hurricane season due to all the damage and trees needing to be trimmed and removed. Lots of overtime and pay for travel out of state. His employer was contracted with our local electric company and they would send his company out of town sometimes to assist before and after hurricanes. He was sent out of FL to GA many times during the hurricanes. But you would think that an employer would be very concerned about a worker missing during a hurricane. Although, IIRC, BK doesn't think he did "blue collar" type work, but I could be wrong. Sure doesn't seem to go along with possible memories of restaurant work, but who knows?
dreamweaver
01-02-2009, 01:38 PM
I don't know if BK would have cashed a check for cash. I would think he would have a nationwide bank, so he could deposit or withdraw money when needed. i.e, Bank of America.
Also, maybe he was just out for dinner and got jumped and beaten up, for what reason I do not know, and his last paycheck is still hanging out
waiting for him.
Maybe that would be easier to trace? Who did not pick up a last paycheck?
I still think he might have been there on vacation.
But I like this theory of his working there.
BeavisMom62
01-02-2009, 01:44 PM
Peliman, See this is what we need, memory cells, so now I lean more to the power plant thing. Do you think you can do a local research and find out who helped Savannah Power build the plant? I will do a google and see what comes up. This is something I definetly could work on, as I am familiar with many construction firms who do this type of construction. Stone & Webster, Brown & Root, Westinghouse, are just a few who I can think of that build power plants.(not sure if the are still these names, but some form of these companies are still around, my husband has been out of this field since 2001) Sure worth a try. Thanks
Back to the tree trimming company idea. Maybe, if he worked for a tree company, they were contracted with Savannah Power? Peliman, Carol, what do you think? (although I really doubt he did that kind of work, but who knows?)
dreamweaver
01-02-2009, 01:57 PM
JUST SOME THOUGHTS...
Please don't give up. We are going good, has my memory cells are poping too. I understand, as I even get hung a time or two, but I think BEN/Nurse Betty are at least reading what we have here on this board, as often as possible.
I for one, have a 67 year old mother, who has a computer at home, and knows nothing about it, not even how to turn it on. I have tried to teach her the basics and she wants to learn, but time doesn't allow, as she still works full time. (PS, she's had a computer for at least 10 years)
I have to remind myself now and then, that BEN does not have a SS. He has to pick up odd jobs that pay cash, not a check, cash. These are few and far between.
It may be a job he has no recollection of, and has to learn his job and to make ends meet, probably working a 10 -12 hr. a day, just to make ends meet.
Just like a computer. I remember when I was in school, I took a typing class(didn't even know about computers). It took me at least 1/2 the school year to learn the keyboard, the other 1/2 trying to type without looking at the keyboard, but this was my interest, not many kids took typing, especially not boys. But they sure too home ec.
Today, it is pretty much a requirement for kids to have a computer class in school.
My husband is 54, construction man, has no interest what so ever in the computer, execpt to ask me, "Honey, could you look for a part for my tractor?" Well, thank goodness I know a little bit about tractors and computers.
We talked about this New Years' Eve. What would these kids today do, if they lived in the 80's? Thirty-year-olds probably have no concept on how we lived, and that's not too many years difference from my age, 46.
So think about BEN, how he must feel, having to learn a new life over again. Leaning a computer, a job, how the government works, etc.
Back in his day, they got up at 4 a.m. to feed the cows, milk them, go to school, and probably had to walk, maybe barefooted maybe not, get home from school, feed the cows, chickens, work in the garden, cut some firewood, cut the grass, and I am not talking about a gas push mower, because back then the money just wasn't there. They had to grow and raise there own food.
So with all that said, I am not BEN, but I am a person who reads alot of history.
I can tell you, if everything would shut down tomorrow(no gas, no electric, no water, no vehicle) except life and what is in my pantry, I could live it, and live it well. I can milk a cow, hunt, drill a water well (never done this, but I am sure I can do it), grow a garden, ride a bike, walk, barter.
I would even in time, have a computer running without electricity. Might not be able to get online for quite sometime, but I would have my computer. I guess that's what some of us stay at home moms do, learn things on the computer. LOL, I remember Y2K, boy was I prepared. Took me about a year to clean out the pantry.
I hope everyone has had a good New Years' day, Peace,
================================================
Just had to comment. OT.
Okay. I am 61. Just about the same age as BK thinks he is.
When I learned to type in school, in 1961,
it was a mixed class of boys and girls. It took me most of the school year to learn to type and then to type without looking at the keys. Mind you, this was the very old style typewriter with a high reach to hit the keys and you had to hit the keys hard. I was afraid I would not pass the class.
But I did.
I used those typewriting skills in journalism classes at school.
I went on to do secretarial work in college. My second job was doing data entry. My career job involved a lot of typing, case manager work.
I think it really depends on the person if they have a knack for computer research, computer typing, that kind of thing.
I like writing. I like research, so it fits for me.
I even created my own My Space page this summer, after years of begging from my adult children. It is like doing a puzzle or decorating. I loved it. Not many people my age on there, though.
Just another note. I grew up in the same time period as BK. I grew up in a small mill town of 8000 population. I did not have to milk cows. I did not get up at 4:00a.m. I caught a school bus to school and back. I did not cut firewood for our wood stove. My dad did.
The lawn was mowed with a push mower, sharpened in the spring by my dad.
We did have a big garden. My mom canned all the fruit and most of the vegetables for winter.
We did have well water. My parents grew up in the depression and in the South, they walked to school, they worked before and after school on the farm. They also saved everything and were very thrifty. I still have some of those ways.
Y2K: I was very prepared as well. I was the go to person for that info at work.
and here is to a Happy, Healthy, Prosperous, Kind, Answers Found NEW YEAR!!
dreamweaver
01-02-2009, 02:05 PM
BK:
I think the vacation idea came from BK himself. He was asked why he thought he was in Richmond Hill, GA. He said, he came to see the ocean.
There are some of us who thought, if he lived in CO., he would have gone to the west coast to see the ocean. But, then, if did have family in IN., maybe he would have stopped by to visit on the way to GA. Of course, then he would have to be driving a car and we know where that theory goes.
It would be good to know if all the towing companies have been contacted. I don't think anyone has had much luck with the Richmond Hill police dept. I know Garden City, GA., police helped BK. Of course, FBI Bill K., would look into that. Someone mentioned about Burger King's towing policy. They probably had a certain company that came and towed cars off their lot.
dreamweaver
01-02-2009, 02:10 PM
I remembered someone posting that they thought BK was in an infomercial
years ago.
So, yesterday I started screening the many YouTube infomercials from 1980's and 1990's. There are hundreds of them. So far, no luck.
Someone else mentioned that they thought they had seen BK at food trade shows or restaurant conventions. Sorry to whoever posted that, I don't remember the exact wording.
So, yesterday, I started checking on these.
There are so many of them.
My daughter works in the natural foods industry and goes to food trade conventions. She has gone for the last 10 years. I will ask her for any kind of information. I know she has gone to the west coast trade shows and a big one in Chicago about 6 years ago.
dreamweaver
01-02-2009, 02:27 PM
I'm not sure how this would apply to BK's case, but I seem to remember that some people, who have suffered strokes, when they recover they can speak a different language. Has anyone heard of this? I know BK didn't suffer a stroke, but amnesia and stroke do both affect the brain. Maybe it is possible to "forget" your preference? :waitasec:
-----------------------------------------------------
I have posted a link to a brain trauma forum.
Sometimes people with amnesia even speak a foreign language or have false memories. I think most people assume his amnesia is due to the 3 blows on his head during his assault and the resulting emotional and physical trauma.
But more often, they just have snippets of real memories.
BK has said he remembers 3 brothers. No names, no faces.
He has not mentioned family, a wife, children, parents, or a partner.
He remembers Catholic school. He talked about not liking Catholic school.
I looked up Catholic retreats in Georgia, Aug. 2004 and there were two, that I recall. But, no way to find a reservation list.
carolwood
01-02-2009, 02:49 PM
Dream, good info, I guess it depends on what part of the country you came from. My grandparents had a cotton, cow, and chicken farm when mom was little, she's 67. She remembers the horse and buggy too when she was little, about 1952 is when they got a truck.
Coffeelover
01-03-2009, 08:44 AM
Tree cutting after the hurricanes is very interesting. That might explain his well-developed forearms. I agree though, that an employer would likely have been concerned about a missing employee. He could definately have worked in both the restaurant business and tree cutting (and many other jobs) during his lifetime.
I remembered someone posting that they thought BK was in an infomercial
Hmm..I thought he looked like someone famous, like an actor. Can't think of who at the moment he reminds me of.
Boyz_Mum
01-03-2009, 07:55 PM
Hmm..I thought he looked like someone famous, like an actor. Can't think of who at the moment he reminds me of.
Sorry to clip you, but does he remind you of Rob Reiner (Archie Bunker's son in law)?
vtgirl
01-03-2009, 08:25 PM
I have been lurking and following this case for months now. The one thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that he was found with no clothes on. how many people are found with no clothes on? Was there a specific reason that the clothes were disposed of? Perhaps it was a uniform or something that would identify him or perhaps the clothes had dna on them. The only other reason I can think of is that he was confronted by an angry husband or boyfriend. perhaps this has already been discussed at length but it raises questions in my mind.
Boyz_Mum
01-03-2009, 08:34 PM
I realize that Mr. Kyle was left out in a hot, sunny area, but I am curious if the doctors who diagnosed his eyes had considered the idea that Colorado is very sunny and issues are found in a lot of snow skiers who have been in the sunlight without eye protection? It's very bright out here and I do wonder if some of his eye problems were pre-existing before he was found in GA. (It's not really a theory or a question- sorry I didn't know the best place to post.) http://www.myeyeworld.com/files/ultraviolet_rays.htm
This link is to a site about eyes.
I do wonder if he was traveling to see the ocean because his sight was diminishing?
vtgirl
01-03-2009, 08:54 PM
I also wondered if all of the employees of the Burger King,at the time BK was found, were thoroughly interviewed to make sure that they did not recognize him or see something that day. Burger King employees wear uniforms and retirees are often hired as fill-ins. Are the ant species that bit him native to Georgia? If not, it may help to narrow down where he came from. Perhaps he delivered or serviced something for Burger King. This would make sense with his possible background in food service.
dreamweaver
01-03-2009, 11:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasmannia_auropunctata
Information on fire ants. They are found in many places, not just Georgia.
From what I have tried to figure out, BK would have had to be unconscious for quite awhile to have so many ant bites by 6 a.m., Aug. 31, 2004.
dreamweaver
01-03-2009, 11:10 PM
I also wondered if all of the employees of the Burger King,at the time BK was found, were thoroughly interviewed to make sure that they did not recognize him or see something that day. Burger King employees wear uniforms and retirees are often hired as fill-ins. Are the ant species that bit him native to Georgia? If not, it may help to narrow down where he came from. Perhaps he delivered or serviced something for Burger King. This would make sense with his possible background in food service.
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Welcome vtgirl:
BK: At the time he was found at Burger King, the police department did NOT do a thorough investigation. I don't think there was an offical report
until recently.
From what has been written about this case, it was thought BK was a homeless person and as such, not given much attention to.
A poor example of how some are treated in our society.
The dumpster was NOT searched for clothing, i.d., or anything.
I think BK has said he went back and talked to people at Burger King. But this was months down the road. I do not know if he talked to the person who found him or the manager who reported to the police.
It could be that BK was at Burger King to repair something or deliver something, but as with almost everything about this case, why has no one reported him missing?
IMHO: I don't think BK has anything to do with that Richmond Hill, GA. Burger King, other than being found by their dumpster.
As far as anyone knows, he was not there the night before and don't most Burger King's close around midnight in the summer.
He was there a little after 6:00a.m. the next morning.
Glad you are here and helping search for clues for BK.
dreamweaver
01-03-2009, 11:25 PM
I have been lurking and following this case for months now. The one thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that he was found with no clothes on. how many people are found with no clothes on? Was there a specific reason that the clothes were disposed of? Perhaps it was a uniform or something that would identify him or perhaps the clothes had dna on them. The only other reason I can think of is that he was confronted by an angry husband or boyfriend. perhaps this has already been discussed at length but it raises questions in my mind.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is so much that is different about this case.
BK is in Georgia, for what reason we do not know. He does not think he is from Georgia. He thinks he came there to see the ocean.
And then, on a Tuesday morning, Aug. 31, 2004, he is found, naked, beaten, unconscious, sweating profusely, covered in fire ant bites, by a Burger King
dumpster.
There have been many theories about what could have happened to BK and why.
I have posted them previously.
I try to think about a possible scenario:
BK is in town. He came by car, rental car, camper, plane or train.
He sees the ocean.
He is near a very busy north/south hiway.
BK is attacked.
I think on Sun., Aug. 29 or Mon., Aug. 30, 2004.
He is hit 3 times on the right side of the head.
He is left out somewhere and fire ants bite him.
He is stripped naked.
He is dumped by a dumpster.
So, being beaten and left naked, to me, seems like a form of humiliation.
If so, is that a personal anger.
Was he beaten by an angry jealous husband? Then where is the girl friend? Why has she not told anyone?
But if we go with the theory that you discuss, his clothing or DNA left on the clothing or body, then
his attackers could be identified by their DNA, which means they have a criminal record.
or
BK's clothing is distinctive, a uniform or very expensive suit, or a priest's robes or collar, or he was dressed for a heavy equipment operator job, as some have discussed.
No clothing, i.d., suitcase, cell phone, car, reservations, have been found.
No missing person database has him listed.
It is what makes this case so compelling. It is what makes so many of us hunt for clues to his identity.
vtgirl
01-04-2009, 02:40 PM
I know that I am jumping in very late on this discussion so I apologize for any redundant questions. There has already been so much work done by the good people on this website. Was there ever a letter or flyer sent out to all motels, bed and breakfasts, or cottages in the area or even 100 mile radius of where he was found? It makes sense that if he was not a native, he may have rented a room somewhere. The owner/manager may have just thought that he left without his belongings, and could still have them in possession. Local chambers of commerce could give mailing list off from there data base at that time. It certainly would be worth a shot.
vtgirl
01-04-2009, 02:51 PM
The fire ant bites make me also think that BK may have been hiking or camping nearby. My nephew hiked the Appalachian trail through Georgia and would often hike into towns near trail heads to eat at fast food joints or stock up on supplies. They would leave their huge packs of hiking gear hidden near a trail head. There are registries all along the trail and even a website for the Appalachian trail. I will do some research to see if there are any major hiking trails in the area. August 31, 2004 was very close to labor day and many people take long vacations at that time to go camping or hiking.
carolwood
01-04-2009, 03:53 PM
Welcome vtgirl
Yes there are many hotels,rentals in area. The problem is almost all of these I would think, were taken by the employees that were doing a large job at Plant McIntosh, Rincon, Ga., approx 30 miles from where BEN was found. There was an estimate of 600-700 people on a daily basis, there from 2003-2005. I would think the housing was booked pretty solid during this time. The thought has occurred that maybe he was employed by one of the contractors at the plant, this I will be working on tomorrow. This could as you talked about the uniform, be one of the reasons he was left naked.
Julessleuther
01-04-2009, 08:12 PM
Just had a thought today, don't know if this has been explored yet---how do we know that BK was not alone while traveling? Are there any other Jane or John Doe's that were found in the area during the time that BK was found? That might be why noone is looking for him? I will see what I can find out...
Also, Has this been looked at before? This guy has the same facial structure as BK-it could be his father or uncle??:
http://www.odmp.org/officer/12385-patrolman-benjamin-kyle-smith
carolwood
01-05-2009, 11:14 AM
Sounds like sending HR a note with the flyer link might make sense....anyone game??
I have got calls in to WG Yates and BE&K, waiting on call backs from HR departments. Keep you updated.
BeavisMom62
01-05-2009, 04:23 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasmannia_auropunctata
Information on fire ants. They are found in many places, not just Georgia.
From what I have tried to figure out, BK would have had to be unconscious for quite awhile to have so many ant bites by 6 a.m., Aug. 31, 2004.
We have fire ants here in FL and they are horrible. But they also swarm at times. I'm thinking there may have been a colony near the dumpster since there is a convenient food source. (But they would probably spray for bugs around dumpsters, just for that reason, huh?) But you can have many bites in a very short time. I remember once when my son was very little and we were walking along the side of the road in GA and he stepped in an ant hill that we didnt see. His poor little body was covered by ants in a matter of seconds. I had to strip his clothes off, there on the side of the road to get those little buggers off of him.
ETA - that just got me to thinking. Perhaps the person who assaulted him, took his clothes off intentionally, so that more ants could get to him? Of course, clothes don't really make that much difference to the ants anyway, they just crawl under your clothes, but its a thought.
dreamweaver
01-06-2009, 07:15 AM
The fire ant bites make me also think that BK may have been hiking or camping nearby. My nephew hiked the Appalachian trail through Georgia and would often hike into towns near trail heads to eat at fast food joints or stock up on supplies. They would leave their huge packs of hiking gear hidden near a trail head. There are registries all along the trail and even a website for the Appalachian trail. I will do some research to see if there are any major hiking trails in the area. August 31, 2004 was very close to labor day and many people take long vacations at that time to go camping or hiking.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Good thinking, vtgirl! That is what we need, some more ideas on what may have happened.
Keep us posted.
dreamweaver
01-06-2009, 07:25 AM
Just had a thought today, don't know if this has been explored yet---how do we know that BK was not alone while traveling? Are there any other Jane or John Doe's that were found in the area during the time that BK was found? That might be why noone is looking for him? I will see what I can find out...
Also, Has this been looked at before? This guy has the same facial structure as BK-it could be his father or uncle??:
http://www.odmp.org/officer/12385-patrolman-benjamin-kyle-smith
--------------------------------------------------------------
another link to Patrolman Benjamin Kyle Smith:
stationed in Conroe, Tx., killed 6/23/58.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/memorial/BKSmith.htm
He certainly has a look of BK.
And IMO, as I always look at the ears when checking similarities out,
his ears do line up the way BK's do.
and julessluether: Great find. I know many of us have been all over the internet doing searches. You found a new person to check out.
dreamweaver
01-06-2009, 07:26 AM
I have got calls in to WG Yates and BE&K, waiting on call backs from HR departments. Keep you updated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Let us know what you find out!
dreamweaver
01-06-2009, 07:29 AM
Welcome vtgirl
Yes there are many hotels,rentals in area. The problem is almost all of these I would think, were taken by the employees that were doing a large job at Plant McIntosh, Rincon, Ga., approx 30 miles from where BEN was found. There was an estimate of 600-700 people on a daily basis, there from 2003-2005. I would think the housing was booked pretty solid during this time. The thought has occurred that maybe he was employed by one of the contractors at the plant, this I will be working on tomorrow. This could as you talked about the uniform, be one of the reasons he was left naked.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I do not know if anyone has actually contacted the hotels and rentals in the area or not. I did read the BK said he had checked out the hotels in that area, to see if there were any leads.
But one thing that was brought up before and I do not know that it was checked out, is about campsites. If BK was working there, maybe he had his own camper, at an RV park. I know that the person who posted this said there were RV parks nearby.
vtgirl
01-09-2009, 06:55 PM
has anyone given any thought about the federal witness protection program? How are witnesses assigned new social security numbers? Sometimes, no one is looking for them because all of their family and friends think that they have died. Just a thought that I had last night.
MissTeach
01-09-2009, 07:51 PM
Hi everyone,
I've been lurking for a while and have been doing lots of reading from all sources about BK. I'm wondering if anyone has considered the following?
I know when BK was found he was assumed to be homeless and then that theory was abandoned. I have worked in homeless shelters before and homeless people cannot be catergorised into neat groups. Some appear dishevelled while others are well groomed and are often unnoticed within the general population. I have known some clients in shelters to have professional backgrounds and degrees and many who have had long work histories before mental illness or family breakdown has impacted their life. The reason I suggest this is that I wonder if BK had actually been living an intinerant life for a significant period before he was found, already impacted by loss of memory and just not making himself known to authorities? Having an intinerant life would mean that once he moved on from a shelter he would not be missed.
Has anyone made inquiries to shelters across the country? Perhaps it's worth considering that BK's discovery when he was beaten was not the beginning of his memory loss and he has been functioning like this for a significant period of time.
Your thoughts on this line of thinking??
Voice4theSilent
01-10-2009, 11:46 AM
has anyone given any thought about the federal witness protection program? How are witnesses assigned new social security numbers? Sometimes, no one is looking for them because all of their family and friends think that they have died. Just a thought that I had last night.
Forgive me for not having the source but I read somewhere (?) that the FBI checked already to make sure he wasn't a witness in their protection. Believe or Christine please correct me if I am wrong.
Voice4theSilent
01-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Hi everyone,
I've been lurking for a while and have been doing lots of reading from all sources about BK. I'm wondering if anyone has considered the following?
I know when BK was found he was assumed to be homeless and then that theory was abandoned. I have worked in homeless shelters before and homeless people cannot be catergorised into neat groups. Some appear dishevelled while others are well groomed and are often unnoticed within the general population. I have known some clients in shelters to have professional backgrounds and degrees and many who have had long work histories before mental illness or family breakdown has impacted their life. The reason I suggest this is that I wonder if BK had actually been living an intinerant life for a significant period before he was found, already impacted by loss of memory and just not making himself known to authorities? Having an intinerant life would mean that once he moved on from a shelter he would not be missed.
Has anyone made inquiries to shelters across the country? Perhaps it's worth considering that BK's discovery when he was beaten was not the beginning of his memory loss and he has been functioning like this for a significant period of time.
Your thoughts on this line of thinking??
I completely agree that this is a very real possibility. I posted several months back that it couldn't be ruled out for this exact reason! (Great minds think alike, huh? ha ha ha!) :blowkiss:
However, IIRC Mr. Kyle feels very strongly (as well as the people around him) that he was not homeless prior to the attack.
vtgirl
01-10-2009, 03:17 PM
I agree with Miss Teach that BK may have been homeless, prior to his attack. I noticed on a map of the area that a railroad passes through or very close to Richmond Hill. Our home is very close to a railroad track and we have homeless people walking the tracks on a daily basis. The rails and the railcars are used as a way to get from town to town without attracting low enforcement's attention. Does anyone know how close the Burger King was to the railroad tracks?
vtgirl
01-10-2009, 07:44 PM
Today, I was reading the thread of BK's memories from the Denver area. His memories of restaurants in the area makes me think of someone who travels for business and eats out frequently. That would explain why the memories do not have family and friends in them. Life on the road can be very lonely when someone isn't working. The Denver airport was opened in 1995 and would have been worked on for many years prior to its opening. Maybe BK worked there during the construction. There are also theories about his being involved in the construction of a plant in Georgia prior to his attack. Does anyone know how we could get a list of employees or companies that worked on these two projects and cross reference them?
Voice4theSilent
01-11-2009, 12:15 PM
I agree with Miss Teach that BK may have been homeless, prior to his attack. I noticed on a map of the area that a railroad passes through or very close to Richmond Hill. Our home is very close to a railroad track and we have homeless people walking the tracks on a daily basis. The rails and the railcars are used as a way to get from town to town without attracting low enforcement's attention. Does anyone know how close the Burger King was to the railroad tracks?
Hello, VTGirl! Someone posted on this thread on October 28th of this year with the following:
"Railroad tracks run right behind Burger King. (no more than 100 ft. away probably.) CSX freight trains share this track with Amtrak. There are a few sidings (holding areas for trains) near Richmond Hill. As far-fetched as this sounds, he could have been an Amtrak passenger that was assaulted then thrown from the train while it was in a siding. He could have then stumbled to Burger King where he collapsed behind the dumpster."
Thought that might help you!
rozey
01-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Hello, VTGirl! Someone posted on this thread on October 28th of this year with the following:
"Railroad tracks run right behind Burger King. (no more than 100 ft. away probably.) CSX freight trains share this track with Amtrak. There are a few sidings (holding areas for trains) near Richmond Hill. As far-fetched as this sounds, he could have been an Amtrak passenger that was assaulted then thrown from the train while it was in a siding. He could have then stumbled to Burger King where he collapsed behind the dumpster."
Thought that might help you!
I just emailed a friend of a friend who is the Crown Princess of Hobos and ask her if she would take a look at the photos, possibly make copies and pass them around. I'll post any responses I get.
vtgirl
01-11-2009, 04:47 PM
Rozey, Thanks so much for doing that! It would be great if flyers could be put up at all of the Amtrack stations. I wonder if Amtrak would be willing to do this.
rozey
01-11-2009, 07:06 PM
Rozey, Thanks so much for doing that! It would be great if flyers could be put up at all of the Amtrack stations. I wonder if Amtrak would be willing to do this.
I've heard back from the Great Grand Hobo Duke of Cyber Space and he will be posting the information about BK on their Hobo Grapevine.
I also emailed 3 others from the Hobo Society but haven't heard back from them.
carolwood
01-11-2009, 11:35 PM
Wonderful and Welcome.:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
Boyz_Mum
01-12-2009, 12:49 PM
Welcome rozey! You are wonderful for sending out the information you have! :clap:
I wonder if BK could have worked for the railroad? IIRC, there was a lot of change in the rail industry back in the 80's- in one resturant I worked in, a lot of railroad employees from other states came in and worked as our local railroad made a lot of changes and perhaps were aquired by another company. Anyway, we were in MI and guys were coming in for work from Tenn and Georgia. Does anyone have any railroad background that may know if these changes were nationwide or if it was just some areas affected by changes?
Boyz_Mum
01-12-2009, 01:52 PM
There are large newspapers for Denver- have they been contacted? The reason I'm asking is that there are a lot of little newspapers too and if a flyer were sent out to them (as I find the names and addresses) is that okay? Our local paper serves a small population and I am sure there are others in different counties. Also, I would need a tutorial as to how to attach the flyer to an email- could someone help or advise if this has been done?
TIA! Boyz_Mum:blowkiss:
dreamweaver
01-12-2009, 02:51 PM
I've heard back from the Great Grand Hobo Duke of Cyber Space and he will be posting the information about BK on their Hobo Grapevine.
I also emailed 3 others from the Hobo Society but haven't heard back from them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Great job, rozey.
I did not know about the Great Grand Hobo Duke of Cyber Space.
OT: p.m. you about another case.
dreamweaver
01-18-2009, 08:16 PM
Theory: What if someone in the military was responsible for the attack on BK?
There are fourteen military bases in Georgia. http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/gamil.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/statefacts/blga.htm
Almost 106,00 personnel combined.
BK fingerprints have not shown up in any military database.
But the FBI would have access to any problem persons in Georgia military bases.
Was anyone jailed or kicked out of the service in late 2004?, early 2005?
Was anyone caught for beating up civilians?
Was someone caught for robbing civilians?
Was anyone caught for identity theft?
Was someone caught with several peoples credit cards and wallets?
Did someone have a temper and drank, then beat people up?
Be nice if FBI could take a look at those Georgia military records. See who was discharged or jailed.
dreamweaver
01-18-2009, 08:38 PM
Theory number 2 for the day:
BK was some clandestine spy/investigator for HOMELAND SECURITY
or the CIA or Defense Dept or State Dept. or Justice Dept. or NSA or Terrorist Threat Integration Center in CIA or Treasury Dept.
His fingerprints are NOT on file for the general law enforcement world, including FBI.
BK arrives in Savannah, GA. There is a problem with a military person selling secrets. Or the hurricane caused an emegent need for a covert investigator.
OR the CDC in Atlanta has a major security issue.
And
BK is attacked by a stranger who wants to rob him. He is overpowered, beaten, robbed. But once his secret i.d. is discovered, the attacker does not kill him, instead leaves him semi conscious by a dumpster, where he will be found.
OR
BK is nearly killed by rivals or by the person he was sent to investigate.
BK now has amnesia.
No one will report him missing.
His fingerprints will not come up in any database.
Yes, a wild theory.
...
fyi: 2007 article on a-space for spies.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/02/america/spy.php
snowme
01-19-2009, 02:01 AM
snip
...
fyi: 2007 article on a-space for spies.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/02/america/spy.php
Oh how interesting. I'm sure they'll spend lots of money on this but I, for one, wish they wouldn't. One word, hacking. I've got other words but hacking is enough, at least for me. Personally, I think they should have just done what they said they had *intended* when they wanted to create Homeland Security... FBI & CIA were the first two agencies to have been housed under that umbrella. As soon as creation was okayed, those two agencies were out of the picture.
They just need to do what people in general need to do... communicate. That is where their failures have been, in communication when it's vital.
Sorry 'bout all that OT.
Dreamweaver, something to consider with this latest line of theory thought... anthrax had become an issue by then as well as other biological weapons threats.
carolwood
01-19-2009, 03:56 AM
Today, I was reading the thread of BK's memories from the Denver area. His memories of restaurants in the area makes me think of someone who travels for business and eats out frequently. That would explain why the memories do not have family and friends in them. Life on the road can be very lonely when someone isn't working. The Denver airport was opened in 1995 and would have been worked on for many years prior to its opening. Maybe BK worked there during the construction. There are also theories about his being involved in the construction of a plant in Georgia prior to his attack. Does anyone know how we could get a list of employees or companies that worked on these two projects and cross reference them?
The construction that took place in plant mcintosh, was handle by yates and Be&k. I am working on this. I also notice that there was contruction going on at the airport too at that time. I will see if I can find the article again, but i think it was in savannah newspaper. try doing a search, see if you come up with something. maybe you can link companies and if so, go for it. I think the problem we will run into here is the companies not wanting to release any names of subcontractor and employees. Probably why they won't return my calls.
vtgirl
01-19-2009, 12:08 PM
If we could come up with a list of companies and adresses or e-mails, then we could forward the info to their human resource office. They could then distribute the info to employees to protect employees right to privacy. I will do a little sleuthing today. Thanks for responding. I didn't want to repeat work already done.
dreamweaver
01-19-2009, 02:43 PM
Just had a thought today, don't know if this has been explored yet---how do we know that BK was not alone while traveling? Are there any other Jane or John Doe's that were found in the area during the time that BK was found? That might be why noone is looking for him? I will see what I can find out...
Also, Has this been looked at before? This guy has the same facial structure as BK-it could be his father or uncle??:
http://www.odmp.org/officer/12385-patrolman-benjamin-kyle-smith
----------------------------------------------------
re: BK not alone. I have done some research about crimes in that general timer period in Georgia. Nothing popped up.
But as with BK, his crime was not on the police incident log and it certainly was not listed in any of the local crime news.
In my town, the newspaper still lists the local crime, graffiti, dui, assaults, etc.
But, you could have more luck than I did. Let us know.
dreamweaver
01-19-2009, 03:02 PM
Theory number 1 for Monday:
BK had moved to Florida to retire. BK still has his regional accent. BK is a loner, with few family or friends.
Hurricane mid Aug. 2004. BK decided to leave FL and go north. He comes up to the
Savannah, GA area. He is attacked, either robbed for money or carjacked and then beaten and left by a Burger King dumpster.
Hotel records are a mess what with the hurricane and Red Cross in town and other organizations. His car was sold for parts or dumped in a deep lake or river.
His home in Florida destroyed. He never filed for homeowner's insurance. Insurance companies did not mind. His neighbors did not know him well, and when no body was found, assumed he left FLorida and moved back home. Mortgage company had a destroyed house on their hands and either wrote it off or thought BK had skipped out and was living somewhere else.
BK has never had his fingerprints taken. In the Viet Nam war era, he either lucked out on the draft or he was considered 4F or he was a college student.
Somewhere, maybe, his brothers wonder why they have not heard from BK for so long, but just think, oh, you know Ben.
We can hope that the Y-DNA search will find something. Or that the drivers license facial recognition software will find him.
carolwood
01-19-2009, 03:13 PM
If we could come up with a list of companies and adresses or e-mails, then we could forward the info to their human resource office. They could then distribute the info to employees to protect employees right to privacy. I will do a little sleuthing today. Thanks for responding. I didn't want to repeat work already done.
vtgirl: this is the article of airport construction in georgia. maybe this company is the same company in denver.
http://old.savannahnow.com/stories/070204/2279633.shtml
carolwood
01-27-2009, 06:54 PM
Came across something today, makes me think ummm? Colfax, Indiana and it is NW of Indianapolis. Yes,, I have posted on topix, just in case.
carolwood
01-28-2009, 01:44 PM
I posted earlier in 50-60 year old thread, asking about fingerprints for the military. I found some interesting facts about this. Leads me to believe
1. Ben was from English Canada, and came to the states some 20+ years ago(would make sense for the voice expert theory)
2. Ben has been declared deceased.(prints no longer in military database)
3. Ben left the states prior to military call in 1968, and only returned due to family passing
Any other thoughts on this.....
Article of fingerprints
Does the FBI have your fingerprints?
http://www.slate.com/id/2117226/
What is in the Defense Manpower Data Center Data Base
http://www.defenselink.mil/privacy/notices/osd/DMDC01b.html
Military Entrance Processing Command (MEPCOM) applicants
http://www.mepcom.army.mil/hq.html
JenBMomto3
01-31-2009, 09:10 AM
Wasn't reported missing until after the date he was found beaten because he was away on business/vacation/trip and said person didn't know exactly when he would return. So maybe newer missing persons reports need to be looked at.
Boyz_Mum
01-31-2009, 10:23 AM
Wasn't reported missing until after the date he was found beaten because he was away on business/vacation/trip and said person didn't know exactly when he would return. So maybe newer missing persons reports need to be looked at.
That's a good idea-
snowme
02-02-2009, 12:09 AM
Came across something today, makes me think ummm? Colfax, Indiana and it is NW of Indianapolis. Yes,, I have posted on topix, just in case.
Now that is interesting!
dreamweaver
02-05-2009, 01:09 PM
I decided to go back to the beginning of BK's story and K I S S.
1. BK was beaten. BK was stripped naked; he was sunburned, covered in fire ant bites and had three depressions on the right side of his head. He was found unconscious, on Aug.31, 2004.
2. BK was left behind a dumpster at Burger King, Richmond Hill, Ga.
Time: a little after 6:00a.m., per Dr Phill show.
3. No investigation done. Anything in the dumpster gone.
4. BK in hospitals.
5. BK finally has cataract surgery. Sees himself and thinks he should be 20yrs younger.
6. BK works as unpaid volunteer.
and WE ALL know we have been unable to match any missing man to BK. DNA is no match. Fingerprints are no match.
Okayyyy.
Next step:
Trying to stay logical and not be creative.
1A. BK: The attack was personal: To kill him. It failed.
1aa. the attack was not personal. To rob him.
2B. BK: personal attack: then by the dumpster because they planned to dump his body inside.
2bb. not personal attack: by the dumpster, just to get him away from the attack site.
3.A. Police at scene, were not thorough, either through inexperience or
thinking BK was a bum.
3aa. Same.
4A. BK not able to remember.
5A. BK sees himself after surgery. Thinks he has aged 20 yrs.
6A. BK is someone who has a work ethic.
Leads to the conclusion:
Either someone wanted him dead and tried to do so themselves
or
someone wanted his money, his car, something, and attacked him
Creative theory:
IF, IF, someone wanted him dead, why not use a gun? Or is he was to suffer by a beating, but then left out in the sun, naked, unconscious, why not use a gun to complete the job. Or strangulation or any nasty other way to kill someone.
IF, IF, he was attacked to take something of his, then why strip him naked and leave him out in the sun?
Why not just the attack, steal the item, leave him to be found?
Either reason, no one knew he would have amnesia and not remember anything at all.
Saying that,
then,
IF , it was a personal thing to murder him, then that person knows that it did not work.
AND
that his memory could come back anytime.
AND a good reason they would not report him missing.
IF, it was a random attack, they left him alive and damaged, but knew he could not recognize them.
AND
they do not care if his memory comes back, because they know BK knows nothing about them.
AND they have no reason to report him missing.
carolwood
02-05-2009, 03:51 PM
Good job dream.
One thing though, BK was not found behind the dumpster, he was found next to or beside the dumpster, behind the Burger King. I went back and checked this several times, just to be sure.
With that being said, if he was found at 7 a.m., how did he get sunburned?
Is it possible, he was there the day before, behind he dumpster and no one saw him, then how would he have got to a position for someone to see him if he is unconscious?(would explain the sunburn)
Is it possible, he was beaten somewhere else where he could get sunburned, and then dropped at BK in early a.m.?
Is it possible, he was already sunburned, due to being at a beach, gets in his vehicle heading home, stops off at BK the nite before to eat, and is jumped in the parking lot, before making it inside his vehicle?
Is it possible, he was already sunburned, gets in his vehicle heading home, stops to get a hotel, all are full with the construction in the area, gets back in his car, see's the BK and pulls over to get some shut eye, someone sees him, beats him, and steals his vehicle?
Is it possible he went for a boat ride to get the sunburn?
He had to have been naked or close to naked, the day before. There is no way, being found at 7 in the morning, he was sunburned at that time of 7 a.m. Even with temps in the 100 degree range, you will not get sunburned at 7 a.m.
carolwood
02-05-2009, 04:20 PM
On Aug. 31, 2004 (eastern time zone, Richmond Hill, Ga.)
Sunrise was at 7:00 a.m.
Sunset was at 7:50 p.m.
http://www.calendar-updates.com/Sun.asp?PostalCode=31324&Submit=Get+Sunrise+%2F+Sunset+Times&sunrise=7%3A00AM&sunset=7%3A50PM&mos=August&day=31&year=2004&ZIPDST=Y&City=Richmond+Hill&Province=Georgia&latDeg=31&latMin=52&latSec=33&lonDeg=81&lonMin=17&lonSec=3&hrsToGMT=5&cities=&dayAns=
dreamweaver
02-05-2009, 09:49 PM
On Aug. 31, 2004 (eastern time zone, Richmond Hill, Ga.)
Sunrise was at 7:00 a.m.
Sunset was at 7:50 p.m.
http://www.calendar-updates.com/Sun.asp?PostalCode=31324&Submit=Get+Sunrise+%2F+Sunset+Times&sunrise=7%3A00AM&sunset=7%3A50PM&mos=August&day=31&year=2004&ZIPDST=Y&City=Richmond+Hill&Province=Georgia&latDeg=31&latMin=52&latSec=33&lonDeg=81&lonMin=17&lonSec=3&hrsToGMT=5&cities=&dayAns=
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weather temp aug. 31, 2004 was 89 deg.
http://weather.aberdeennews.com/history/airport/KSVN/2004/8/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
dreamweaver
02-05-2009, 10:10 PM
Good job dream.
One thing though, BK was not found behind the dumpster, he was found next to or beside the dumpster, behind the Burger King. I went back and checked this several times, just to be sure.
With that being said, if he was found at 7 a.m., how did he get sunburned?
Is it possible, he was there the day before, behind he dumpster and no one saw him, then how would he have got to a position for someone to see him if he is unconscious?(would explain the sunburn)
Is it possible, he was beaten somewhere else where he could get sunburned, and then dropped at BK in early a.m.?
Is it possible, he was already sunburned, due to being at a beach, gets in his vehicle heading home, stops off at BK the nite before to eat, and is jumped in the parking lot, before making it inside his vehicle?
Is it possible, he was already sunburned, gets in his vehicle heading home, stops to get a hotel, all are full with the construction in the area, gets back in his car, see's the BK and pulls over to get some shut eye, someone sees him, beats him, and steals his vehicle?
Is it possible he went for a boat ride to get the sunburn?
He had to have been naked or close to naked, the day before. There is no way, being found at 7 in the morning, he was sunburned at that time of 7 a.m. Even with temps in the 100 degree range, you will not get sunburned at 7 a.m.
--------------------------------------------------------
http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/4682/?id=4682&showID=1146
Where I got the 6:00a.m. time, on Dr Phil, BK says it was around 6:00a.m.
Sunburn: I don't think he was by the dumpster the day before. I think someone would have noticed him.
Same thing with being attacked at Burger King night of Aug. 30, no way to be that sunburned and naked and have cataracts that were stated to be caused by prolonged exposure to the sun.
Wish the google map showed how the Burger King of Aug. 31, 2004 was laid out, where the dumpster was in relation to the sun.
I read that Benjaman Kyle's Burger King was torn down.
Sunburned by boating or on the beach, yes. But sunburned all over and covered in fire ant bites? Maybe.
IMO: I think he was attacked somewhere else. He was beaten.
He lay out in the sun for a long time. Long enough to be sunburned
and be covered in fire ant bites. Long enough that he had cataracts from too much sun. ( with his eyes open ?)
When found, he was sweating profusely. When I read about fire ant bites, one of the after effects is sweating.
I think his attacker decided to dump him. Maybe after Burger King closed.
It closes in my area at midnight.
Maybe the attacker thought he was dead or dying and was going to put him in the dumpster. But could not.
IMO: So, he would have been attacked on Mon. Aug., 30, 2004
or Sun., Aug. 29, 2004.
dreamweaver
02-05-2009, 10:35 PM
http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/4682/?id=4682&slide=1&showID=1146&preview=&versionID=
“Do you have any idea of what you were doing in Georgia?” Dr. Phil asks.
“I think I came down there to see the ocean,” Ben says.
..Question..
Is CAME DOWN THERE a colloquoism? Something that someone from Indiana would say?
I live in Oregon and if I was in Georgia and I was asked, what are you doing in Georgia? I would say, I CAME OVER HERE to visit Savannah.
and if I was back in Oregon after the trip .... and then asked.... what were you doing in Georgia? I would say, I WENT DOWN there to visit Savannah.
It makes me think he lived in a state above Georgia.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Savannah&1s=GA&1y=US&1l=32.083302&1g=-81.099998&1v=CITY&2c=Indianapolis&2s=IN&2y=US&2l=39.768299&2g=-86.158096&2v=CITY
Maybe I am making too much of his choice of words, but he does have a good grasp of the English language and appears intelligent.
So, it is a regional way of saying things? Anyone?
carolwood: What would you say if you were asked, what were you doing in Georgia?
Anyone else? What would be the way you answered the question? What were you doing in Georgia?
carolwood
02-05-2009, 11:45 PM
http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/4682/?id=4682&slide=1&showID=1146&preview=&versionID=
“Do you have any idea of what you were doing in Georgia?” Dr. Phil asks.
“I think I came down there to see the ocean,” Ben says.
..Question..
Is CAME DOWN THERE a colloquoism? Something that someone from Indiana would say?
I live in Oregon and if I was in Georgia and I was asked, what are you doing in Georgia? I would say, I CAME OVER HERE to visit Savannah.
and if I was back in Oregon after the trip .... and then asked.... what were you doing in Georgia? I would say, I WENT DOWN there to visit Savannah.
It makes me think he lived in a state above Georgia.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Savannah&1s=GA&1y=US&1l=32.083302&1g=-81.099998&1v=CITY&2c=Indianapolis&2s=IN&2y=US&2l=39.768299&2g=-86.158096&2v=CITY
Maybe I am making too much of his choice of words, but he does have a good grasp of the English language and appears intelligent.
So, it is a regional way of saying things? Anyone?
carolwood: What would you say if you were asked, what were you doing in Georgia?
Anyone else? What would be the way you answered the question? What were you doing in Georgia?
Excellent, dream. Now you know I live in Louisiana. My answer:
"I went down there to see the ocean."
And with that said, how would you say "Put up the dishes"
I would not, I would most likely say
"could you save the dishes"
well, my husband prayed over the dishes one day, and I laughed, but he now knows what save the dishes mean.
Another one: Are you getting out the car?
no, not me, "are you getting down, out the car?"
Well, my husband began dancing in the seat of the car, and when I ask what he was doing, well he was gettin' down. I laughed, now I don't say it anymore.
so yes I would believe, how we use words are specific to certain areas.
dreamweaver
02-06-2009, 12:39 AM
Excellent, dream. Now you know I live in Louisiana. My answer:
"I went down there to see the ocean."
And with that said, how would you say "Put up the dishes"
I would not, I would most likely say
"could you save the dishes"
well, my husband prayed over the dishes one day, and I laughed, but he now knows what save the dishes mean.
Another one: Are you getting out the car?
no, not me, "are you getting down, out the car?"
Well, my husband began dancing in the seat of the car, and when I ask what he was doing, well he was gettin' down. I laughed, now I don't say it anymore.
so yes I would believe, how we use words are specific to certain areas.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Put up the dishes: I would say, would you put the dishes away?
Are you getting out of the car: I would say, are you getting out of the car? same.
So, we are in agreement, words are specific to certain areas.
My parents were from the south.
Right after they moved to Oregon, 1948,
They would say, would you carry me to the store?
I say, can you take me to the store?
Dad was a timber faller. He would always say, got to go get my rig.
I would have said, I have to get my car.
carolwood
02-06-2009, 08:43 AM
Some south Mississippians, born early 1930-1950, use the expression
"chaps" for the word "children"
I would say, can you take me to the store.
I would say, I have to go get my car.
I, like you, think how we say things, is area specific.
I think this is one of the things the voice expert was talking about too on Dr. Phil, not only his voice and how it sounds, but how he might pronouce certain words, correct?
I would think, but don't remember if it was mentioned, that specific dialect is used to determine this too. I am going to see what I can find on this subject.
carolwood
02-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Not knowing how they determined Ben's voice, here are a couple of articles that might help to give ideas on how it may have been done.
Speech recognition/identification: article from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_identification
Speech analysis tool:
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/resource/sfs/wasp.htm
Voice Indentification for forensics:
http://www.owlinvestigations.com/forensic_articles/aural_spectrographic/fulltext.html
dreamweaver
02-06-2009, 01:17 PM
Not knowing how they determined Ben's voice, here are a couple of articles that might help to give ideas on how it may have been done.
Speech recognition/identification: article from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_identification
Speech analysis tool:
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/resource/sfs/wasp.htm
Voice Indentification for forensics:
http://www.owlinvestigations.com/forensic_articles/aural_spectrographic/fulltext.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
-Great sites:
Here is another one.
http://www.geocities.com/yvain.geo/dialects.html
number 11 appears to be where they have identified BK's speech is from. 'snipped'
North Midland (11)
Created as the people in Pennsylvania migrated westward and influenced by Scotch-Irish, German, and English Quaker settlers. This and the South Midland dialect can actually be considered a separate Midland Dialect region that serves as a transition zone between the north and south. They call doughnuts belly sinkers, doorknobs, dunkers, and fatcakes.
dreamweaver
02-06-2009, 01:24 PM
and then there is number 17. south midland dialect.
http://www.geocities.com/yvain.geo/dialects.html
I think because my parents were from NW Arkansas, I have some of those expressions still. They seem just right, very familiar.
vtgirl
02-06-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't think that BK was taken to Burger King to dispose of his body in the dumpster. If the attacker wanted him dead, they would have just left him somewhere isolated, where there was no chance of recovery. If his attacker brought him to Burger King it was because the attack was an accident ,self-defense perhaps or mistaken identity or the attack was purely to take money or a car. The intent was never to kill BK. They/ She/He wanted him found.
The other possibility is that somehow BK wandered around with a head wound, totally out of it, for some time. It was long enough to get sunburned, he took his own clothes off to get the fire ants off from him and eventually collapsed by the dumpster. Was there any evidence taken to find out what was used to cause the head wounds? That could be telling about where the attack actually occured.
Earthbound Misfit I
02-06-2009, 05:11 PM
Hi vtgirl, I think somewhat like you as far as how Ben got to the dumpster at Burger King. I think he may have been attacked at another location and was rendered unconcious at that time. He may have layed in the sun for sometime before he came to and somehow he was able to wander over to the area by the dumpster and passed out again.
I don't think that BK was taken to Burger King to dispose of his body in the dumpster. If the attacker wanted him dead, they would have just left him somewhere isolated, where there was no chance of recovery. If his attacker brought him to Burger King it was because the attack was an accident ,self-defense perhaps or mistaken identity or the attack was purely to take money or a car. The intent was never to kill BK. They/ She/He wanted him found.
The other possibility is that somehow BK wandered around with a head wound, totally out of it, for some time. It was long enough to get sunburned, he took his own clothes off to get the fire ants off from him and eventually collapsed by the dumpster. Was there any evidence taken to find out what was used to cause the head wounds? That could be telling about where the attack actually occured.
carolwood
02-06-2009, 07:22 PM
I don't think this was ever discussed, and I know Ben only has scars on his arm from surgery. But I have to ask this question. Does Ben have the shot scar on the arm? Mine isn't real big, and you can barely see it. I have not idea what it was given for back then, just know we had to have it to be able to go to school, but I am a bit younger, and my mom is, I think older than Ben, and she does not have it. Dream, you would be about Ben's age, do you have one? Anyone else?
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