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SieSie
10-21-2008, 04:31 PM
What questions do you have? Hopefully others who remember the details a little better can answer so we don't have to search through the threads.

Here are my questions:

Did Benjaman have any defensive wounds when he was found?

With the technology that we have available now with scanning people at airports, isn't there some way someone could "scan" Benjaman's surgical pins or plates to get the serial number?

believe09
10-21-2008, 04:43 PM
What questions do you have? Hopefully others who remember the details a little better can answer so we don't have to search through the threads.

Here are my questions:

Did Benjaman have any defensive wounds when he was found?

With the technology that we have available now with scanning people at airports, isn't there some way someone could "scan" Benjaman's surgical pins or plates to get the serial number?

Great idea-I have posed the following questions to him from the last 24 hours on the forum:

1.) Were you relatively clean shaven when you were initially found? Hopefully there are notes that include this information either in your records or in the call sheet/incident report done by Richmond Hill when you were transported.

2.) Is there any indication that you have received rhinoplasty?

3.) Were there XRAYS done to confirm the hardware in your arm? Could anyone see serial numbers?

4.) What was the time that elapsed from when you recovered consciousness and discovered the amnesia and or when was your eye surgery done in relationship to your discovery in August 2004.

SieSie
10-21-2008, 11:11 PM
Great idea-I have posed the following questions to him from the last 24 hours on the forum:

1.) Were you relatively clean shaven when you were initially found? Hopefully there are notes that include this information either in your records or in the call sheet/incident report done by Richmond Hill when you were transported.

2.) Is there any indication that you have received rhinoplasty?

3.) Were there XRAYS done to confirm the hardware in your arm? Could anyone see serial numbers?

4.) What was the time that elapsed from when you recovered consciousness and discovered the amnesia and or when was your eye surgery done in relationship to your discovery in August 2004.

Thank you, believe!! :blowkiss: Looking forward to his answers.

believe09
10-22-2008, 01:17 AM
I also asked LE for a definitive answer on Steve Dewey for what it is worth...

SeekingJana
10-22-2008, 01:27 AM
Months ago, I posted about this at length. More than likely, this is hardware that can safely be removed in a fairly simple procedure anyway.
There will definitely be identifying manufacturer numbers on the plate/ screw set which WILL trace back to a lot number. The lot number will trace to a certain hospital.

There's no doubt about this. However, whether the hospital will have or be able to give BK any info is up for grabs. IF the orthopedic surgeon who did the internal fixation of his fractured arm can ID him by sight, then it could open up quite a lot of avenues. Even large hospitals only have a very limited number of orthopedic surgeons, usually 3-4 different group practices in a major medical center. IF the doctor stayed put, I think BK might could be ID'd this way.

believe09
10-22-2008, 07:41 AM
that just because the issue is outstanding, it hasn't been addressed-like the arm hardware and possible matches etc, lol.

Yes things can slip through the cracks, but it doesn't mean that these issues were never ever addressed. If there were XRAYS done in 2004 to confirm the hardware, they may have had no value-I am doing my best to find out.

While I was checking to see when serial numbers were actually placed on bone hardware, I stumbled across a House (the series) episode where House removed a pin from a woman's arm to get the serial number off of it. I suppose that is always an option as well, lol!

Does anyone know when serial numbers were placed on bone pins?? BK would have had his surgery possibly in the late 60's to mid 70's based on how old he recalls it to be.

Patty G
10-22-2008, 09:25 AM
1.) Were you relatively clean shaven when you were initially found? Hopefully there are notes that include this information either in your records or in the call sheet/incident report done by Richmond Hill when you were transported.

I would like to know if BK DID have a beard, what color was his beard. In the one picture he has a dark brown beard, did he dye it? If BK dyed it, WHY did he dye it?

believe09
10-22-2008, 10:01 AM
I would like to know if BK DID have a beard, what color was his beard. In the one picture he has a dark brown beard, did he dye it? If BK dyed it, WHY did he dye it?

He was told to dye it by the show and I am pretty sure they picked the color.

I will post the rest when I hear back.

Voice4theSilent
10-22-2008, 12:42 PM
Thank you very much for getting these questions answered for us. I am confident we will receive some very valuable information as a result! :clap:

If possible, can you please find out the following:

1.) Cataract Surgery - what type of cataract did he have (cortical, nuclear or subcapsular) and what the surgeon thinks caused the cataract to form (i.e. was it formed over time or due to severe short term exposure, etc.)?

2.) Did his medical records indicate he had defensive wounds from fighting off his attacker(s)? (someone else asked this question above)

3.) Exactly what type of injuries did he suffer from when found, as indicated in his medical records from his initial hospital visit?

4.) Does he have a heightened fear of anything in particular (strangers, rain, water, airplanes, cars, etc.)? I completely understand if this question is too personal for him to want to supply an answer to.

Any information would be greatly appreciated! You are amazing! Thank you! :blowkiss:

Patty G
10-22-2008, 12:51 PM
He was told to dye it by the show and I am pretty sure they picked the color.

I will post the rest when I hear back.

Which show asked BK to dye his beard "brown"? :confused: BK didn't have a beard on the Dr. Phil Show!

believe09
10-22-2008, 10:38 PM
Mr Kyle was kind enough to send replies....they are detailed in blue.


Great idea-I have posed the following questions to him from the last 24 hours on the forum:

1.) Were you relatively clean shaven when you were initially found? Hopefully there are notes that include this information either in your records or in the call sheet/incident report done by Richmond Hill when you were transported. There is no information on whether or not he was scruffy or clean shaven. He does not remember himself.

2.) Is there any indication that you have received rhinoplasty? Head CT's show no indication of a previously broken nose.

3.) Were there XRAYS done to confirm the hardware in your arm? Could anyone see serial numbers? There do not appear to have been XRAYS done to confirm the hardware-he does not want to have any pins removed for the purposes of identification.

4.) What was the time that elapsed from when you recovered consciousness and discovered the amnesia and or when was your eye surgery done in relationship to your discovery in August 2004.
The surgery to correct his vision was 8 months after his discovery-he does not have clear recollections of the month following his discovery at the Burger King.

believe09
10-22-2008, 10:40 PM
Which show asked BK to dye his beard "brown"? :confused: BK didn't have a beard on the Dr. Phil Show!

The photos and retouch were done at the request of the show. If you check some of the older photo postings you will see when he actually sent them to us to post...it was awesome to see them and fun to see his sense of humor at work!

SieSie
10-22-2008, 11:04 PM
Mr Kyle was kind enough to send replies....they are detailed in blue.

Thank you believe!! :blowkiss:

believe09
10-23-2008, 07:39 AM
Thank you believe!! :blowkiss:

Back atcha for thinking about him so hard...:blowkiss:

BeavisMom62
10-23-2008, 08:08 AM
Believe, why doesn't he want the pins or hardware removed? That seems like almost a sure shot to me as far as ID goes. Does that seem strange to anyone? Or is it me?

MissOtk
10-23-2008, 08:59 AM
Believe, why doesn't he want the pins or hardware removed? That seems like almost a sure shot to me as far as ID goes. Does that seem strange to anyone? Or is it me?


Great question. Im interested in hearing why he doesnt want them removed as well. I did a quick search on pain removal and most posts mention "slight discomfort/pain." A small price to pay for such a good chance at finding your identity IMO.:waitasec:


Perhaps its a financial issue? Maybe he cant afford to have the surgery?

Voice4theSilent
10-23-2008, 02:43 PM
Believe, why doesn't he want the pins or hardware removed? That seems like almost a sure shot to me as far as ID goes. Does that seem strange to anyone? Or is it me?

YES! YES! YES! That stuck out to me as odd. Perhaps there is an explaination (?) however I don't know why that wasn't included. I was hoping we would get additional information however I have more questions now than I had before. Oh well....

believe09
10-23-2008, 03:02 PM
Believe, why doesn't he want the pins or hardware removed? That seems like almost a sure shot to me as far as ID goes. Does that seem strange to anyone? Or is it me?


Great question. Im interested in hearing why he doesnt want them removed as well. I did a quick search on pain removal and most posts mention "slight discomfort/pain." A small price to pay for such a good chance at finding your identity IMO.:waitasec:


Perhaps its a financial issue? Maybe he cant afford to have the surgery?


YES! YES! YES! That stuck out to me as odd. Perhaps there is an explaination (?) however I don't know why that wasn't included. I was hoping we would get additional information however I have more questions now than I had before. Oh well....

It is not for me to say and I knew you guys would be all over this one, lol! I think that increasing media attention is a legitimate step before self-mutilation, but these are my words not his.

raeann
10-23-2008, 03:55 PM
Believe, why doesn't he want the pins or hardware removed? That seems like almost a sure shot to me as far as ID goes. Does that seem strange to anyone? Or is it me?


Since BK has no job (due to not having a SSN), he also has no health insurance. I also can not imagine that any orthopedic surgeon would be willing to do un-necessary surgery for free when there is no medical reason to do so. In fact, many would consider this to be unethical in every respect. For example, try explaining this in malpractice court "The patient died from a reaction to the anesthesia while I was doing unneeded surgery to see if there were numbers on a pin that POSSIBLY existed in his arm" There is not even proof that there are pins there, and certainly no proof that those pins have any ID numbers on them.
Add to this that it would be a very painful procedure to remove a pin around which bone growth and scarring had occurred, and it really isn't a practical solution for anyone involved.

believe09
10-23-2008, 04:01 PM
As you can imagine, Mr. Kyle has been repeatedly tested for malingering-you have to know that this would be the basis for any LE and media done for him. So if it eases your mind, there is NO evidence of it. None. He has amnesia straight out.

raeann
10-23-2008, 05:01 PM
As you can imagine, Mr. Kyle has been repeatedly tested for malingering-you have to know that this would be the basis for any LE and media done for him. So if it eases your mind, there is NO evidence of it. None. He has amnesia straight out.


If this was in response to MY post, I wasn't even remotely referring to whether or not he has amnesia. The arm surgery is something he THINKS he remembers, that doesn't mean there is a pin in his arm. I broke my arm a few years ago and had numerous pieces of bone removed from it, yet there are NO PINS in it.

The point of my post was that it is highly questionable that any doctor or hospital would ever approve doing un-needed surgery to find any ID numbers on a pin, let alone needing to have that un- needed surgery be done with both the surgeon and the hospital DONATING their services, which could add up to several thousands of dollars.

Cymro
10-23-2008, 05:16 PM
Would it at least be possible to X-ray rather than do invasive surgery? That would surely reveal whether or not there were a pin to examine even if it didn't show a serial number.

Voice4theSilent
10-23-2008, 05:25 PM
If this was in response to MY post, I wasn't even remotely referring to whether or not he has amnesia. The arm surgery is something he THINKS he remembers, that doesn't mean there is a pin in his arm. I broke my arm a few years ago and had numerous pieces of bone removed from it, yet there are NO PINS in it.

The point of my post was that it is highly questionable that any doctor or hospital would ever approve doing un-needed surgery to find any ID numbers on a pin, let alone needing to have that un- needed surgery be done with both the surgeon and the hospital DONATING their services, which could add up to several thousands of dollars.

I think it was in response to my last post, not yours, Raeann!

raeann
10-23-2008, 05:29 PM
I think it was in response to my last post, not yours, Raeann!

LOL, thanks for letting me know, I couldn't imagine how what I had discussed had implied that he didn't have amnesia, so I was quite confused!

SieSie
10-23-2008, 05:50 PM
Believe, why doesn't he want the pins or hardware removed? That seems like almost a sure shot to me as far as ID goes. Does that seem strange to anyone? Or is it me?
When I told my husband about this case, that was his first comment - he could find out his identity almost definitely if they could get a doctor to donate their time for the surgery. I think his cataract surgery was donated, why not for this, too?


<< snipped for content >>


The point of my post was that it is highly questionable that any doctor or hospital would ever approve doing un-needed surgery to find any ID numbers on a pin, let alone needing to have that un- needed surgery be done with both the surgeon and the hospital DONATING their services, which could add up to several thousands of dollars.
Excellent point, raeann!!

Voice4theSilent
10-23-2008, 05:59 PM
It is not for me to say and I knew you guys would be all over this one, lol! I think that increasing media attention is a legitimate step before self-mutilation, but these are my words not his.

I just have to put this out there....I don't think anyone was implying that they would like to see BK mutilate himself for a serial number that might not even help shed light on his background or origin. I think perhaps the risk and liability involved in such an "elective" surgery went without mention earlier. In all reality (like Raeann posted), I imagine it would be hard to find a surgeon who would perform a surgery like that, given the reason behind it is not medically necessary. I agree that going on the Dr. Phil Show has a much greater chance of helping him than replacing a pin in his arm, especially not knowing if there would even be anything traceable on the pin...and the former is probably a tad less painful than the later~LOL! :crazy: (Ahhh...you know us so well Believe! :blowkiss:)

BeavisMom62
10-25-2008, 04:28 PM
When I told my husband about this case, that was his first comment - he could find out his identity almost definitely if they could get a doctor to donate their time for the surgery. I think his cataract surgery was donated, why not for this, too?
<< snipped for content >>
Excellent point, raeann!!

Thats what I thought too, SS, about a dr donating the time. I can understand about the malpractice aspect, etc as previously mentioned, but I wonder if the pin would need to be removed? Not to sound glib, but couldn't they just open it up and take a peek?

SieSie
10-25-2008, 06:37 PM
Thats what I thought too, SS, about a dr donating the time. I can understand about the malpractice aspect, etc as previously mentioned, but I wonder if the pin would need to be removed? Not to sound glib, but couldn't they just open it up and take a peek?
Well, I am definitely not knowledgable in the medical field, but I know people have arthroscopic surgeries where it's not an invasive surgery - you'd think there would be some way they could just insert a tiny camera in the elbow to scan the numbers or something. :waitasec:

believe09
10-25-2008, 08:37 PM
No body reacts to bone pin placement the same-after perhaps 40 years of bone growth in and around those pins, I suspect the calcification would be pretty impressive. I am not a medical expert so I do not know for sure-does anyone know when bone pins started being marked with serial numbers? I mean if it didn't start until the 80's or later, it will not make any difference to Benjaman since he likely had his surgery in the 70's...make sense?

Voice4theSilent
10-26-2008, 12:27 AM
No body reacts to bone pin placement the same-after perhaps 40 years of bone growth in and around those pins, I suspect the calcification would be pretty impressive. I am not a medical expert so I do not know for sure-does anyone know when bone pins started being marked with serial numbers? I mean if it didn't start until the 80's or later, it will not make any difference to Benjaman since he likely had his surgery in the 70's...make sense?


Does he know when he had the surgery?

believe09
10-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Does he know when he had the surgery?

Early 20's in terms of his age-not a year clearly.

BeavisMom62
10-26-2008, 01:24 PM
Wow, in his 20's? I didn't catch that before, believe. You are probably right as far as calcification and scarring or whatnot around the pins. Shoot!

Voice4theSilent
10-26-2008, 06:47 PM
Early 20's in terms of his age-not a year clearly.

And he is sure that is when he had that surgery? Does he know for certain when he had the other surgeries?

believe09
10-26-2008, 07:10 PM
And he is sure that is when he had that surgery? Does he know for certain when he had the other surgeries?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67321

The data is on this thread...

Julessleuther
10-26-2008, 10:12 PM
You are absolutely correct Believe, I had forgotten about calcification. My father had pins put in his knees when he was 11 (he is now 65) and about 10 yrs ago he needed knee surgery and some of the pins replaced. They have an extremely difficult job getting some of the old pins out, because of calcification and the bone growing around the pins. They basically had to restructure his kneecap. I too had been pressing on about the pins, but this is not something that BK is comfortable with, and we have so many avenues to pursue, so lets get working!


No body reacts to bone pin placement the same-after perhaps 40 years of bone growth in and around those pins, I suspect the calcification would be pretty impressive. I am not a medical expert so I do not know for sure-does anyone know when bone pins started being marked with serial numbers? I mean if it didn't start until the 80's or later, it will not make any difference to Benjaman since he likely had his surgery in the 70's...make sense?

SieSie
10-27-2008, 05:53 PM
You are absolutely correct Believe, I had forgotten about calcification. My father had pins put in his knees when he was 11 (he is now 65) and about 10 yrs ago he needed knee surgery and some of the pins replaced. They have an extremely difficult job getting some of the old pins out, because of calcification and the bone growing around the pins. They basically had to restructure his kneecap. I too had been pressing on about the pins, but this is not something that BK is comfortable with, and we have so many avenues to pursue, so lets get working!
I didn't know about calcification and stuff, let alone if they had numbers on the pins back when he would've had his surgeries. At least I know that's not an option now. Onward and upward. :D

Cubby
10-28-2008, 11:47 AM
Not sure where to post this, here or the general discussion thread, as this is not a question for BK- but for any of our members or readers.

Does anyone have any contacts or connections with the National Restaurant Association? I'm sure they have some kind of publication that goes out to those directly involved with restaurants and any distributors who deal with the rest. industry. (Paper company's, wine distributors etc.) If so, I would REALLY love to see BK's flyers and info included in one of their publications. I believe if his info gets out to those in the industry it may very well lead to his identification.

believe09
10-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Not sure where to post this, here or the general discussion thread, as this is not a question for BK- but for any of our members or readers.

Does anyone have any contacts or connections with the National Restaurant Association? I'm sure they have some kind of publication that goes out to those directly involved with restaurants and any distributors who deal with the rest. industry. (Paper company's, wine distributors etc.) If so, I would REALLY love to see BK's flyers and info included in one of their publications. I believe if his info gets out to those in the industry it may very well lead to his identification.

LOVE IT-I contacted the Colorado Rest Association at the beginning of the year, sent them a flyer but we had no luck....

Cubby
10-28-2008, 01:32 PM
LOVE IT-I contacted the Colorado Rest Association at the beginning of the year, sent them a flyer but we had no luck....


Thanks believe. This is why I want a contact. Someone who is actively involved with the NRA or a big company.... (say, top management at Red Lobster, or one of the larger paper distributors like Saalfeld (sp?) paper) I believe there would be a much better chance of his info actually being published in one of their publications if it came from them as opposed to the average Joe like ourselves.

Cubby
11-12-2008, 02:36 PM
No one has ties to anyone working with the NRA? IF so please let us know! IF not I will try to get working on making contacts by weeks end.

Cubby
11-12-2008, 02:40 PM
I've been giving the memory of attending Catholic school some thought.. Mr. Kyle has specific thoughts and beliefs about his work ethic and his country. Does he have any of those same deep beliefs regarding the Catholic Church or his Catholic faith? Does he say, have a reason to believe he should not recieve communion if he still attends mass? Does he still attend mass? Does anything specific stand out aside from he thinks he went to catholic school?

I ask because if we are going to delve into this, it would be nice if we should be focusing solely on a student who may not have been active within the church beyond school years, or an adult who possibly attended mass and participated or was known within his parish.

thanks!

believe09
11-12-2008, 03:09 PM
I've been giving the memory of attending Catholic school some thought.. Mr. Kyle has specific thoughts and beliefs about his work ethic and his country. Does he have any of those same deep beliefs regarding the Catholic Church or his Catholic faith? Does he say, have a reason to believe he should not recieve communion if he still attends mass? Does he still attend mass? Does anything specific stand out aside from he thinks he went to catholic school?

I ask because if we are going to delve into this, it would be nice if we should be focusing solely on a student who may not have been active within the church beyond school years, or an adult who possibly attended mass and participated or was known within his parish.

thanks!

He has stated in the past that Catholic School was a hell-hole. He has a strong faith, tempered with cynicism-he actually reminds me a whole lot of my Dad in a way...my father attended Catholic School and then studied to be a priest. Like my Dad, Mr. Kyle is well versed in scripture.

I doubt he was excommunicated which would make him unable to receive the sacraments in the church, but I suppose you never know!

Cubby
11-12-2008, 03:38 PM
He has stated in the past that Catholic School was a hell-hole. He has a strong faith, tempered with cynicism-he actually reminds me a whole lot of my Dad in a way...my father attended Catholic School and then studied to be a priest. Like my Dad, Mr. Kyle is well versed in scripture.

I doubt he was excommunicated which would make him unable to receive the sacraments in the church, but I suppose you never know!

I didn't mean it that way. When my parents divorced my father did not take communion for at least 10 years until he had my parents marriage annulled through the church. I was just wondering if anything stood out to place him with the faith only as a child or an adult still participating in the faith.

believe09
11-12-2008, 03:48 PM
I didn't mean it that way. When my parents divorced my father did not take communion for at least 10 years until he had my parents marriage annulled through the church. I was just wondering if anything stood out to place him with the faith only as a child or an adult still participating in the faith.

I was teasing-sorry if that did not come across!!! My Dad was the original lapsed Catholic.

I will send Mr. Kyle the link to the forum so he can reply himself and I will post it with his permission.

dreamweaver
11-12-2008, 06:00 PM
brought over from thread: 50/60 yr old amnesia victim #4
#101
Ideas: help jog memory of BK
Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up.
Ask if he has memories of those holidays?
Have him look at pictures of family Thanksgiving's and
all kinds of pictures of Christmas.
See what it brings up.
It might give all of us more clues.
Did veteran's day bring up any memories?
What about those events that we all know where we were when it happened?
Those of us who are a little older, of course.
JFK assination in Dallas, 1963?
RFK assination in LA, 1968?
Sept. 11, 2001?
Walk on the moon, 7/20/69?
When Nixon resigned, 8/9/74?
Beatles, Ed Sullivan show, Feb., 1964? BK was probably a teenager then.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by dreamweaver; Today at 12:43 PM. Reason: add those of us who are older.....not everyone was born in the late 1940's.lol.

dreamweaver
11-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Today, 12:50 PM
dreamweaver
...'facts can obscure truth...maya angelou Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 142
brought over from thread 50/60 year old amnesia victim #4
#105
I was thinking, Christmas memories.?
Was it snowing? Was there a Christmas parade? What did the tree look like?
When I was little, we visited relatives in Arkansas and they still went to a little church/school. I have definite memories of the one room schoolhouse / church and the potbelly stove and the kids all reciting Christmas lines and getting a sack of candy from Santa..
I grew up in Oregon,so our trees were very cheap and we had the same decorations forever.
But if he grew up in a state where there were not plentiful Christmas trees, maybe his family had to go out and buy one. ?

Thanksgiving? Does he remember lots of people? Or just going to a friends house? Does he remember the food, the stuffing? Did the family travel to grandma's house?
Stuffing is kind of regional. We, in Oregon, always had sage stuffing or giblet sage stuffing.
We always went to my uncle's house for big holiday meals..

When JFK was assinated in 1963? Was he in high school? Was he at home? Does he remember people crying or were people glad? There were some people who reacted that way.
I was in high school, in history class when it was announced. There was shock and numbness and crying.
I remember I watched the JFK funeral at my best friends house, on tv. We even have photos of that.

snowme
11-13-2008, 01:22 AM
If I'm recalling correctly, I think I heard him mention JFK on Dr. Phil's show. The last few days that had been in my head and thinking he was in junior high (I think that's what he felt he remembered) at the time. That led me to wondering if he would have been the right age range for service when the Vietnam war was going on.

dreamweaver
11-13-2008, 07:38 AM
Time of JFK assasination; Nov.1963.
I was in 11th grade in high school. If he was in junior high, he was probably in 7th, 8th or 9th grade. So, that would make him born in
1949, 1950, or 1951. Assuming his memory is correct...

And that would make him eligible for the draft to Viet Nam.
Buf if he was in the service, his fingerprints would be on file.
If he was found unfit for military service,
why is he in perfect health now?
If he did not want to go to Viet Nam,
Some people in that era, late 1960's, registered as a conscentious objector.
Some people in that era, did not register, and went to Canada to live.
Some became protestors and refused to go.
Some were in college.
Some had a family at a very young age and were exempted.
Some 'lucked out' and had a high number in the Selective Service lottery Dec. 1969 and did not have to go.
Link: how lottery worked in 1969.
http://www.landscaper.net/draft.htm#How's%20your%20"Luck%20of%20the%20Draw"?
We could assume from this that BK's birthdate was not in the low or middle numbers.

dreamweaver
11-13-2008, 07:50 AM
Draft dodgers who went to Canada were treated as immigrants.
http://www.nguoi-viet.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=28133&z=8
Some have speculated that BK used certain Canadian phrases and has used certain spellings of words that are like a Canadian.
Something to think about.

believe09
11-13-2008, 09:29 AM
The draft dodging angle is interesting-I would think that conscientious objectors whose draft number came up would be relatively easy to track...hmmm...

snowme
11-14-2008, 03:03 AM
Thanks for tackling that area of thinking, dreamweaver. I have trouble knowing what people mean when they say "junior high". Where I grew up it was elementary (1st-5th), middle/intermediate (6th-8th), junior high (9th & 10th), and senior high (11th & 12th). So unless an actual grade level is given I'm never sure. A late/end-of-year birthdate often affects school entry year and that too can cause a misconstrued understanding of a persons age and/or grade level as well. Just a couple variables that tend to give me troubles... not that they necessarily apply here.

Boyz_Mum
11-14-2008, 09:26 AM
This question may seem way out there, but I do wonder if Mr. Kyle has any specific memories of driving a car- like a certain make/model that rings a bell with him? (For example, does he remember driving a Firebird- like in Smokey and the Bandit...) I know it sounds dumb, but there could be a "time stamp" in his memory somewhere with the most mundane memory.

I also wonder if he has any memory of skiing, snowmobiling- any type of outdoor activity as per Colorado could be concerned. (Another "out there" question.)

While the restuarant (sp) memories can help, I am wondering if Mr. Kyle has memories of any of his adult passtimes- or favorites... it's early, if I'm not making too much sense, sorry!:blowkiss:

dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 11:20 AM
Hey, good idea. I had thought of Thanksgiving and Christmas memories, just what did the tree look like that kind of thing.
And a car. Wow. Most people remember their cars or at least the idea of them...

dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 11:29 AM
I have a link to the selective service draft in late 1969. It lists all the numbers/ date of month/ , that leads to high numbers and the low numbers.

http://www.landscaper.net/draft70-72.htm

dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 11:37 AM
Thanks for tackling that area of thinking, dreamweaver. I have trouble knowing what people mean when they say "junior high". Where I grew up it was elementary (1st-5th), middle/intermediate (6th-8th), junior high (9th & 10th), and senior high (11th & 12th). So unless an actual grade level is given I'm never sure. A late/end-of-year birthdate often affects school entry year and that too can cause a misconstrued understanding of a persons age and/or grade level as well. Just a couple variables that tend to give me troubles... not that they necessarily apply here.

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Ah. Sorry. I think grade levels can be different in states and school districts.
But, yes, things have changed since the early 1960's.
Back in those days, in southern Oregon,
1st thru 6th in grade school. (elementary school)
7th, 8th, 9th grades were usually in junior high. (middle school)
10th, 11th, 12th grades were in senior high. (high school)
Another about late birthdates: back in those days,
I think the cutoff date was very late. . . Dec...? I am speculating, as all in my family had spring dob.
Later, when my daughter was starting first grade, 1976, the cutoff date was Nov. 15.
Now, 2008, when my granddaughter started kindergarten, cut off date is Sept. 1. Her dob Sept. 2, she is the oldest in her class.
((OT>> grandson, dob 8/26///he is the youngest in his class))

dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 11:45 AM
Not sure where to post this, here or the general discussion thread, as this is not a question for BK- but for any of our members or readers.

Does anyone have any contacts or connections with the National Restaurant Association? I'm sure they have some kind of publication that goes out to those directly involved with restaurants and any distributors who deal with the rest. industry. (Paper company's, wine distributors etc.) If so, I would REALLY love to see BK's flyers and info included in one of their publications. I believe if his info gets out to those in the industry it may very well lead to his identification.
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Link: National Restaurant Association:
http://www.restaurant.org/
Colorado link:
http://www.coloradorestaurant.com/

There are email and phone numbers listed. Does someone want to take this on? Maybe they could even coordinate with CO. law enforcement when
they have their event??

dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 11:49 AM
believe09:

Has BK responded to any of the questions posed?

Maybe we should have a thread for all the things BK has said... i.e, Catholic school, state fair, Co. memories, ....?
I either don't know he has remembered certain things or it is lost in one of our ongoing threads.
What do you think everyone?

dreamweaver
11-14-2008, 11:52 AM
Okay. I see we have the thread: BK's memories. But it is not devoted to a list of his known memories.
Maybe we could break it down.?
List of...............:

Cubby
11-14-2008, 01:07 PM
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Link: National Restaurant Association:
http://www.restaurant.org/
Colorado link:
http://www.coloradorestaurant.com/

There are email and phone numbers listed. Does someone want to take this on? Maybe they could even coordinate with CO. law enforcement when
they have their event??


thanks dreamweaver. I will have to get to this next week as we are headed out of town for the weekend. I used to work in the restaurant distribution( paper and plastic) industry and am trying to remember the last name of the rep from Kimberly Clark. A Kathy Z, and for the life of me I can not recall her last name. It wasn't a good parting when I left ( not KC ) and I have heard Kathy has since been promoted so I was hoping to get in contact with her for a possible contact name with the NRA. If not I will contact them next week.

Another thought: I am trying to figure out which distributers/salesman service the area BK remembers. The company I worked for was in the midwest and we sold as far west as Omaha and as far east as Western NY at one time. I still have contact with a few salesman and if I can I will try to find out which rede-s are big in that area and who might have known/worked with BK- if that is making sense. Nothing coming to me yet, but working on it.

snowme
11-15-2008, 01:39 AM
Boyz_mum I think those are great ideas!!! :blowkiss:

snowme
11-15-2008, 01:42 AM
No apology necessary!! :blowkiss: Over the years and by regions it's been so different it's just hard for me to figure out quickly -- hard to think outside the "box" I was educated in at times LOL.


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Ah. Sorry. I think grade levels can be different in states and school districts.
But, yes, things have changed since the early 1960's.
Back in those days, in southern Oregon,
1st thru 6th in grade school. (elementary school)
7th, 8th, 9th grades were usually in junior high. (middle school)
10th, 11th, 12th grades were in senior high. (high school)
Another about late birthdates: back in those days,
I think the cutoff date was very late. . . Dec...? I am speculating, as all in my family had spring dob.
Later, when my daughter was starting first grade, 1976, the cutoff date was Nov. 15.
Now, 2008, when my granddaughter started kindergarten, cut off date is Sept. 1. Her dob Sept. 2, she is the oldest in her class.
((OT>> grandson, dob 8/26///he is the youngest in his class))

snowme
11-15-2008, 01:47 AM
I think you're right, dreamweaver, without meaning to we tend to muddy it with discussion, lol. It probably would be very beneficial to have a no discussion thread with nothing but his memories & responses strictly for reference.


Okay. I see we have the thread: BK's memories. But it is not devoted to a list of his known memories.
Maybe we could break it down.?
List of...............:

Voice4theSilent
11-15-2008, 02:39 PM
I think you're right, dreamweaver, without meaning to we tend to muddy it with discussion, lol. It probably would be very beneficial to have a no discussion thread with nothing but his memories & responses strictly for reference.

I think we should have one Question No Discussion thread with Questions ONLY and one Answers No Discussion thread that we can move the question over to (with the answer included) when it is answered. I know I have asked several questions I think are very relevant and they have been ignored. It is an impossible task to do anything of relevence to help this man if we are only working with a small fraction of the information available. Short of sending emails and letters to shows and news stations anything else is just spinning our wheels hoping that dumb luck will step in and we might blindly stumble on the right road to his identity. IMO.

Voice4theSilent
11-15-2008, 02:41 PM
It might be helpful also to have one Thread that is updated regularly with all the information we currently know (BK bio, answers to the questions asked, etc.) that is locked so the only thing in it is one post with all the information updated on a regular basis by a mod.

snowme
11-17-2008, 01:39 AM
I think we should have one Question No Discussion thread with Questions ONLY and one Answers No Discussion thread that we can move the question over to (with the answer included) when it is answered. I know I have asked several questions I think are very relevant and they have been ignored. It is an impossible task to do anything of relevence to help this man if we are only working with a small fraction of the information available. Short of sending emails and letters to shows and news stations anything else is just spinning our wheels hoping that dumb luck will step in and we might blindly stumble on the right road to his identity. IMO.

bold mine
I completely agree with this!

I also really like your idea for organizing the questions & answers that way.

Voice4theSilent
12-04-2008, 03:09 AM
believe09: Has BK responded to any of the questions posed?

I don't want to come across as rude but there are people here spending hours of their time pulling up pictures of missing people in the US and all over the world, finding similarities in random men's facial features on the internet, emailing fliers, posting pictures, speaking to friends, co-workers, etc. hoping against hope to come up with any bit of information to help him get his identity back and some good information might come out of the answers to some of the questions people have posted on this and other threads.

Any word? :blowkiss: