PDA

View Full Version : New Time Line - Smell in the car?



WillenFan21
11-19-2008, 12:34 AM
(MODS I hope this is OK)

OK so on Nancy Grace she had a ME on her show that explained why the car would still smell 4 months later. The medical examiner man that she had on there said that he thinks the body was in the car for two weeks.

Could this mean that there is a different time line then of when she disposed of the body? Maybe we should look over the pings and see if we can get a different location that Casey may have been at since the time line could be changed. I agree with the ME that her body would have been in there for a long time. If Caylee was killed on the 16th then that means two weeks later it would have been June 30th or around that time that Caylees body was gone. She could have disposed of the body in July even.

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 12:45 AM
The car was parked at the Amscott starting on the night of the 26th, late night. It was towed from the Amscott on the 30th and was on the tow yard lot from then on until George and Cindy collected it. Casey would have had to have had the body out of the car by the 30th at the latest, unless, as I saw over in another thread, Caylee was in the car when George and Cindy picked it up, but not visible, and was UNDER the carpet and the trunk liner in the spare tire space and they found her when THEY got home...which I doubt simply because of Cindy's "It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car" statement on the 911 call. The body could have been in there, though, from the 16th up until the car was abandoned and that would have been close to 2 weeks...so it is worth looking into.

I personally believe she could have been in the car when she ran out of gas and she tossed her into the dumpster there or near there, as she had no choice and could not just leave her there...

LI_Mom
11-19-2008, 12:52 AM
I think IF G&C found Caylee's body AFTER the cops left due to their the 911 call, they would NOT have been spending time on MySpace.... they would have been covering up... Caylee's body & Casey's MURDER! lol


No, I am convinced Casey killed AND dumped the baby with NOBODY'S help. And that NOBODY even knew Caylee was missing until Cindy tracked her down with an angry Amy's help.

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:01 AM
I believe this is true. I believe the reason why the report only shows 2.6 days is due to the fluids being mostly leaked in maybe the backyard. The decomp was not over with and when she transferred her the rest came out. KC couldn't have came up with the final resting spot that quick, IMO.

WillenFan21
11-19-2008, 01:05 AM
Casey pinged in these two areas which are wooded. Could these mean anything?

On June 23rd she was around this area which is wooded and looks to have a pond as well:

http://i36.tinypic.com/jucme0.jpg

June 29th Casey pinged in this area too and I noticed that she pinged on this area on July 23rd too.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j0clg8.jpg

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:11 AM
Casey pinged in these two areas which are wooded. Could these mean anything?

On June 23rd she was around this area which is wooded and looks to have a pond as well:

http://i36.tinypic.com/jucme0.jpg

June 29th Casey pinged in this area too and I noticed that she pinged on this area on July 23rd too.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j0clg8.jpg

Willen~ Do you know what these areas consist of? Or major rd names?

WillenFan21
11-19-2008, 01:16 AM
No. I didn't know how to tell.

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:21 AM
No. I didn't know how to tell.

If the map is still accessible through google maps then you can zoom out on the - symbol on the left side of picture in the middle. If the picture is already saved as a tiny pic just like you posted it then you can't.

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:25 AM
Okay, I think the top picture is near TonE apt b/c those roads are showing up in Winter Park. The bottom picture is off of Colonial and Old Cheney, I'm assuming near Amscot?

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 01:25 AM
Isnt the major road name down the bottom there ? University Boulevard ? if you can pm me the link to that map I can probably find some more major names via the buttons
But I don't know how you guys do "pings"

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 01:28 AM
OOO Im on the map now !

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:29 AM
Here is a wider view of the bottom map.

WillenFan21
11-19-2008, 01:32 AM
Okay, I think the top picture is near TonE apt b/c those roads are showing up in Winter Park. The bottom picture is off of Colonial and Old Cheney, I'm assuming near Amscot?

Zoom in on Ping 1 on this map for the June 23rd ping around wooded area and then Ping 2 is where it looks like boats are where she also pinged on June 30:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103915041605280294744.00045978581036e53cb86&ll=28.532052,-81.324234&spn=0.269653,0.432587&t=h&z=11


June 29th zoom in on ping 14 and you will see that same are where it appears boats are:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103915041605280294744.0004598b4cfeb420eeeb9&ll=28.531449,-81.318741&spn=0.269654,0.432587&t=h&z=11

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:32 AM
Here is the top map:

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 01:33 AM
Its all near some Aloma Square Shopping center ?

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 01:40 AM
You sure have a Lot of Lakes out there in the one area !

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:41 AM
We have to remember a lot of these places are probably built up now. These are older maps.

MvD
11-19-2008, 01:44 AM
Does anyone know off the top of their heads the date that KC texted AH something to the effect of "she got rid of the dead squirrels" .. I always thought that date was when she disposed of little Caylee.

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:45 AM
Does anyone know off the top of their heads the date that KC texted AH something to the effect of "she got rid of the dead squirrels" .. I always thought that date was when she disposed of little Caylee.

June 27th.

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 01:47 AM
What about Lake Deborah ?or Chapel Hill Cemetary Pond

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:49 AM
You know maybe she rented a car. On page 23 of the cell phone records there is the stored number for Enterprise and it's right before Det. Yuri, so that means the coincide with when they were stored. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/20%20Orange%20County%20Sheriff.pdf

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 01:50 AM
My God have they looked in those HUGE woods right by Lee's house? That is where I would start if I were them. She could have parked at his house and walked the distance into that VAST wooded area and nobody would have noticed her.

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 01:50 AM
Does anyone know off the top of their heads the date that KC texted AH something to the effect of "she got rid of the dead squirrels" .. I always thought that date was when she disposed of little Caylee.

IIRC it was the 25th or the 26th...

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:57 AM
snipped:
On June 26, Casey Anthony wrote, “I need a freaking vacation.”
The next day, a text message told Huizenga about how her car smelled like a dead animal — and how it was possibly a squirrel that was run over.

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/docs-casey-anthony-sent-553-cell-text-messages-two-about-daughter/

WillenFan21
11-19-2008, 01:57 AM
My God have they looked in those HUGE woods right by Lee's house? That is where I would start if I were them. She could have parked at his house and walked the distance into that VAST wooded area and nobody would have noticed her.

What picture are you looking at?

Coley
11-19-2008, 01:58 AM
My God have they looked in those HUGE woods right by Lee's house? That is where I would start if I were them. She could have parked at his house and walked the distance into that VAST wooded area and nobody would have noticed her.

I still haven't understood why they haven't gotten a search warrant for LA house.

DotsEyes
11-19-2008, 02:05 AM
IIRC there was a Taxi Cab Co. card in her belongings.

She may have been taking a cab.

AutomaticAuttie
11-19-2008, 02:05 AM
(MODS I hope this is OK)

OK so on Nancy Grace she had a ME on her show that explained why the car would still smell 4 months later. The medical examiner man that she had on there said that he thinks the body was in the car for two weeks.

Could this mean that there is a different time line then of when she disposed of the body? Maybe we should look over the pings and see if we can get a different location that Casey may have been at since the time line could be changed. I agree with the ME that her body would have been in there for a long time. If Caylee was killed on the 16th then that means two weeks later it would have been June 30th or around that time that Caylees body was gone. She could have disposed of the body in July even.

Wouldn't a body that was in the trunk decomposing for 2 weeks give a different reading of the PMI then a body that has been there for less then 2.6 days?

Coley
11-19-2008, 02:09 AM
Wouldn't a body that was in the trunk decomposing for 2 weeks give a different reading of the PMI then a body that has been there for less then 2.6 days?

I wouldn't think so if the body had been moved in and out in 2.6 days, she lost fluid somewhere else, or she was in a container or bag.

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 02:10 AM
Yeah I noticed those woods too.

Ugh I just read those texts that you linked to


On May 13, CA sent a text message that said, “My mom is taking the kid for the weekend for part of her vacation (with a smiley face).”
*edited full name to initials*

If EVER i had doubt that she did it , its gone !

Who talks about their child like that

ie "taking the kid"

Like taking out the garbage

:( poor Caylee

Coley
11-19-2008, 02:11 AM
Yeah I noticed those woods too.

Ugh I just read those texts that you linked to

*edited full name to initials*

If EVER i had doubt that she did it , its gone !

Who talks about their child like that

ie "taking the kid"

Like taking out the garbage

:( poor Caylee

Wasn't around the time she was fighting with them about going to PR?

AutomaticAuttie
11-19-2008, 02:14 AM
I wouldn't think so if the body had been moved in and out in 2.6 days, she lost fluid somewhere else, or she was in a container or bag.

The DR said the smell would be from a body decomposing for 1-2 weeks not 2.6 days. What he was saying is that 2.6 days would not still be smelly. What that DR said tonight on NG contradicts 2.6 days in the report from the body farm.

Coley
11-19-2008, 02:19 AM
The DR said the smell would be from a body decomposing for 1-2 weeks not 2.6 days. What he was saying is that 2.6 days would not still be smelly. What that DR said tonight on NG contradicts 2.6 days in the report from the body farm.

Wouldn't the smell be controlled if in a container?

JaneInOz
11-19-2008, 02:19 AM
On a side note have you seen the documents released Nov 18
Her lawyer is motioning to be allowed to take a laptop in (amongst loads of other things) Preserve Evidence etc http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/24/files_released_in_casey_anthony_case.html

Coley
11-19-2008, 02:22 AM
On a side note have you seen the documents released Nov 18
Her lawyer is motioning to be allowed to take a laptop in (amongst loads of other things) Preserve Evidence etc http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/24/files_released_in_casey_anthony_case.html

JB is a joke. I swear he has a template program for defense atty where he is just filling in the blanks.

AutomaticAuttie
11-19-2008, 02:23 AM
Wouldn't the smell be controlled if in a container?


From what the DR was saying the only way you would still have a smelly trunk was if a body was decomposing for 1-2 weeks. He said it would not smell still if it was only 2.6 days. Does this make sense?

Coley
11-19-2008, 02:33 AM
From what the DR was saying the only way you would still have a smelly trunk was if a body was decomposing for 1-2 weeks. He said it would not smell still if it was only 2.6 days. Does this make sense?

Along with the rest of this case my answer is Yes & No.
:crazy::crazy::bang:

AutomaticAuttie
11-19-2008, 02:35 AM
along with the rest of this case my answer is yes & no.
:crazy::crazy::bang:

lol:)

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 02:43 AM
From what the DR was saying the only way you would still have a smelly trunk was if a body was decomposing for 1-2 weeks. He said it would not smell still if it was only 2.6 days. Does this make sense?

Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

Coley
11-19-2008, 02:44 AM
Gosh, I will sleep on this and get back to everyone tomorrow. Too much to process after posting for 12 hours straight. :bang:

KellioPSL
11-19-2008, 09:37 AM
You know maybe she rented a car. On page 23 of the cell phone records there is the stored number for Enterprise and it's right before Det. Yuri, so that means the coincide with when they were stored. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/20%20Orange%20County%20Sheriff.pdf

kc sent a text cant remember which guy she sent it to,but it was sent on the 15th of july, out the blue telling him that she was going to get a rental car

WillenFan21
11-19-2008, 02:26 PM
Wouldn't the smell be controlled if in a container?

I don't think Caylee was in a container in that trunk otherwise why would that car still smell after 4 months?

TotallyObsessed
11-19-2008, 02:35 PM
The DR said the smell would be from a body decomposing for 1-2 weeks not 2.6 days. What he was saying is that 2.6 days would not still be smelly. What that DR said tonight on NG contradicts 2.6 days in the report from the body farm.

Ok - what if the body was in a bag (one of those vacuum packing bags like you buy at JC Penneys) for approximately 2 weeks. No leakage but still decomposing. Then the bag leaked approximately 2.6 days before it was lifted out and disposed of.

You would them have an older decomp smell leaked in the car for only 2.6 days.

Does that make sense?

TotallyObsessed
11-19-2008, 02:38 PM
Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

I like your theory.

Lanie
11-19-2008, 02:42 PM
From what the DR was saying the only way you would still have a smelly trunk was if a body was decomposing for 1-2 weeks. He said it would not smell still if it was only 2.6 days. Does this make sense?

Didn't he also say if there was a fluid leak, the smell would still be coming off the fluid?

IMO, even without a fluid leak, the smell is going to permeate every bit of porous material in the trunk, then with the trunk being closed, it is going to be mostly kept in there.

I know I have had many, many experiences with smelly things in my life. I can think of several of these where the main offensive odor thing was removed, and the smell seemed to disappear, but then came back. I've had food spoil in containers, where washing the containers isn't enough and I've had to throw them away. Hasn't anyone else out here had some kind of thing like this happen?
Lanie

Example: I've forgotten food in coolers before. It smells horrible. I've removed the food, washed the cooler, and the smell seems to be gone. A few weeks later, I get the cooler out, open the lid, and it reeks, because it has been out in the shed, in TX, in heat, with the lid closed.

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 02:46 PM
I like your theory.

Thank you...:blowkiss:

IWannaKnow
11-19-2008, 03:12 PM
Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk.(Because Casey freaked and placed her there after she died/was killed, because she only had about 1 hour to "fix" things if Caylee died between 3:00and 4:00 on the 16th? What time does Cindy get home from work?) We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. (Would this be around the 18th - 19th?) Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose.(Around the 26th, before the car dump of course?) The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...(So you "get rid of the smell" by dumping the car!)

:clap::clap::clap: - By jove, I think you've got it! That makes excellent sense and would account for the 1-2 week variation in the timeline. I believe Caylee died on the 16th, with the car being dumped late on the night of the 26th. That makes 10 days of decomp. Can't remember what they said it would smell like after 10 days, but I can't imagine it would be good. Of course, this doesn't account for why George didn't smell anything on the 24th. DANG IT! I just can't buy that Caylee was alive from the 16th to the 24th (as some posters are suggesting). I don't believe the evidence supports that. Hope you don't mind the additions for my own timeline consideration. Do you think Casey realized she would not be able to get the smell out of the car?

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 03:16 PM
From what the DR was saying the only way you would still have a smelly trunk was if a body was decomposing for 1-2 weeks. He said it would not smell still if it was only 2.6 days. Does this make sense?

Hey maybe it was the "expert" isn't much of an "expert". Anyone know him? What is his background? What are his credentials? He may not know his head from a hole in the ground...Just sayin'...:)

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 03:18 PM
:clap::clap::clap: - By jove, I think you've got it! That makes excellent sense and would account for the 1-2 week variation in the timeline. I believe Caylee died on the 16th, with the car being dumped late on the night of the 26th. That makes 10 days of decomp. Can't remember what they said it would smell like after 10 days, but I can't imagine it would be good. Of course, this doesn't account for why George didn't smell anything on the 24th. DANG IT! I just can't buy that Caylee was alive from the 16th to the 24th (as some posters are suggesting). I don't believe the evidence supports that. Hope you don't mind the additions for my own timeline consideration. Do you think Casey realized she would not be able to get the smell out of the car?

I don't mind a bit. And I think the expert that said it had to have been a week to two weeks is off base. I think the fluids that leaked out would continue to decompose and the smell would get stronger day by day. It is not like they would just stop decomposing because they had leaked out of the body...right?:confused:

Bev
11-19-2008, 03:20 PM
I think it's fairly obvious that this guest hasn't read the report and doesn't know what he's talking about - he's the same ME who said the body was taken to another state.

IWannaKnow
11-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Thats my impression, but I am no expert! Just an deskchair detective - an obsessed one at that! But I do believe that encasing her in plastic as you suggest would cut down the smell quite a bit. I can only imagine what that must have been like in the FL heat. YAK!!!! I really can't understand how Casey could have gone through with this. It floors me. She must be one tough cookie.

raines67
11-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

This makes sense to me!:crazy:

kgeaux
11-19-2008, 03:25 PM
I believe this is true. I believe the reason why the report only shows 2.6 days is due to the fluids being mostly leaked in maybe the backyard. The decomp was not over with and when she transferred her the rest came out. KC couldn't have came up with the final resting spot that quick, IMO.


But Coley, the 2.6 days estimate comes from AIR SAMPLES that were tested. The body would release certain chemicals into the air at certain times in its return to dust (I just can't make myself say the D word right now.) and while the air samples apparently failed to pick up two very important chemicals tied to human decomp, it did pick up 16 others....not all tied to human ONLY decomp.

BTW, Dr. Perper may not have known that the car was being kept in a sealed environment: That alone may be why the car still stank.

I'm not sure what fluids made the baseball sized stain in the trunk.......?

kgeaux
11-19-2008, 03:26 PM
You sure have a Lot of Lakes out there in the one area !

Florida seems to have as much water as land, doesn't it?

Bev
11-19-2008, 03:29 PM
No, the 2.6 days didn't come from air samples - it came from the result of the LIBS test.

SuziQ
11-19-2008, 03:30 PM
:clap::clap::clap: - By jove, I think you've got it! That makes excellent sense and would account for the 1-2 week variation in the timeline. I believe Caylee died on the 16th, with the car being dumped late on the night of the 26th. That makes 10 days of decomp. Can't remember what they said it would smell like after 10 days, but I can't imagine it would be good. Of course, this doesn't account for why George didn't smell anything on the 24th. DANG IT! I just can't buy that Caylee was alive from the 16th to the 24th (as some posters are suggesting). I don't believe the evidence supports that. Hope you don't mind the additions for my own timeline consideration. Do you think Casey realized she would not be able to get the smell out of the car?

I feel the same way you and Magic-cat do about the timeline. Although let me add something else. I think the decomp the dogs hit in the backyard were created when George sat the gas cans down as he meandered around the yard doing stuff on his way to put them back into the shed. Or maybe they smelled and George after most likely getting a whiff of the trunk too, was checking out certain spots in the backyard, while carrying and sitting down the gas cans.

Bev
11-19-2008, 03:34 PM
Wow, SuziQ, I think you really hit on something! The gas cans being moved would alert the dogs!

SuziQ
11-19-2008, 03:37 PM
Wow, SuziQ, I think you really hit on something! The gas cans being moved would alert the dogs!

I'm thinking after the close call with her dad, shoving the gas cans at him and quickly skiddadling, that she knew she had a problem to take care of pronto. And she started texting about the smell for an explanation further down the line if she needed one.

magic-cat
11-19-2008, 03:38 PM
I feel the same way you and Magic-cat do about the timeline. Although let me add something else. I think the decomp the dogs hit in the backyard were created when George sat the gas cans down as he meandered around the yard doing stuff on his way to put them back into the shed. Or maybe they smelled and George after most likely getting a whiff of the trunk too, was checking out certain spots in the backyard, while carrying and sitting down the gas cans.

Hi SuziQ: I have thought this as well...I do believe the gas cans smelled of decomp and I believe THAT is what prompted the Anthony's to search their own yard...the gas cans from Casey's TRUNK smelled of death and they were in a tailspin trying to find a reason for it...

Bev
11-19-2008, 03:41 PM
I believe she thought that once she got rid of the body, the smell would go away - unfortunately for KC it had soaked into the carpet and on to the trunk liner - if she scrubbed at it, it would have made it worse. I had always wondered about the dogs hitting in the backyard and I believe your idea is brill.

SuziQ
11-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Hi SuziQ: I have thought this as well...I do believe the gas cans smelled of decomp and I believe THAT is what prompted the Anthony's to search their own yard...the gas cans from Casey's TRUNK smelled of death and they were in a tailspin trying to find a reason for it...

I've always meant to go back and what the Greta video again to see where the hose hook ups are in the backyard. I wondering he if washed them off in any of the spots the dogs hit. Like back by the pool where the bush was.

Bobo
11-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Throwin' my 2 cents in here:
If the 2 gas cans that KC threw a GA were made of plastic > and if they smelled of decomp (plastic being infamous for picking up and retaining odors) > and GA got rid of them, it would explain why Simon B (tow yard guy) described the gas can that GA produced at the tow yard as being old and beat up.

When I read that interview, I had an image of a METAL gas can with dents and dings. I'll have to go back and read it again.

What I don't know is if anyone has accounted for the original 2 gas cans that KC threw at GA on June 24th???

AutomaticAuttie
11-19-2008, 03:53 PM
Ok - what if the body was in a bag (one of those vacuum packing bags like you buy at JC Penneys) for approximately 2 weeks. No leakage but still decomposing. Then the bag leaked approximately 2.6 days before it was lifted out and disposed of.

You would them have an older decomp smell leaked in the car for only 2.6 days.

Does that make sense?

The levels of the odor compounds would have read differently and there have been different compounds left that happen when a body first decomposes and different ones when it is in say the 2nd week of decompostion. Let me ask you this would the body have been preserved in the bag or would it have continued with the process of decompostion even though it was in a bag?

Whyamisointerested
11-19-2008, 03:55 PM
Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

I like your theory. I think she died late night on the 15th or early am 16th, I dont think GA ever saw them on the 16th..anyhow good theory, its about what I have been thinking as well.

AutomaticAuttie
11-19-2008, 03:57 PM
Also, it goes on to say on page 10 under "conclusions" - "indications of early decompsition products......What do we know about the stages of decompostion?

SuziQ
11-19-2008, 04:19 PM
Throwin' my 2 cents in here:
If the 2 gas cans that KC threw a GA were made of plastic > and if they smelled of decomp (plastic being infamous for picking up and retaining odors) > and GA got rid of them, it would explain why Simon B (tow yard guy) described the gas can that GA produced at the tow yard as being old and beat up.

When I read that interview, I had an image of a METAL gas can with dents and dings. I'll have to go back and read it again.

What I don't know is if anyone has accounted for the original 2 gas cans that KC threw at GA on June 24th???

About beginning to mid august, LE retreived the cans and I believe they were plastic.

Bobo
11-19-2008, 05:50 PM
About beginning to mid august, LE retreived the cans and I believe they were plastic.

OK then. There is a possibility that if they ever did smell of decomposition, that odor may still linger. For all we know those gas cans have had samples cut and sent for further testing somewhere.

cocoamom
11-19-2008, 11:53 PM
My God have they looked in those HUGE woods right by Lee's house? That is where I would start if I were them. She could have parked at his house and walked the distance into that VAST wooded area and nobody would have noticed her.

Thank you,thank you , thank you!!!!!! She would ping same towers as mom and dad's house!!!

Question: GA, ex LE, goes to get car from tow yard. Smells a smell that he knows so much that he prays out loud that it "not be my Caylee". Gets in stinky car and drives all the way home. "Airs out" car by opening windows and garage, etc. NEVER CALLS POLICE. Cindy asks him "what died in here?" then says "it's the pizza right?" (reminder this bag with pizza BOX was thrown over the fence at the tow yard so how does she even know it existed? She never saw the car until he got it home!) SHE NEVER CALLS POLICE.

GA gets out of car and GOES TO WORK????? What???!!! Grand daughter missing, can't get daughter on phone, dead body smell in car, doesn't call police and GOES TO WORK? WTF/H/whatever!!! Something is rotten in Denmark and it isn't in the trunk!

SuziQ
11-20-2008, 12:09 PM
OK then. There is a possibility that if they ever did smell of decomposition, that odor may still linger. For all we know those gas cans have had samples cut and sent for further testing somewhere.

I certainly hope so. There was a weird situation about the gas cans being recovered. OCSO, IIRC, posted all incident reports from over the years at the A's house. One item was the gas can theft from June. Reporters saw that and started asking about it. George told reporters that he found out that it was a neighbor and they returned the gas cans to him. A few days later OCSO showed up to get the cans. I don't think OCSO realized until George told that Fib that he had gotten the cans back and connected the dots. Why neglect to mention that to OCSO? Furthermore, why neglect to mention it was Casey? The A's certainly have their own opinion on what they think LE should or shouldn't know.

beckaroozie
11-20-2008, 06:03 PM
My God have they looked in those HUGE woods right by Lee's house? That is where I would start if I were them. She could have parked at his house and walked the distance into that VAST wooded area and nobody would have noticed her.

Magic, I noticed that last night as well. If you notice there's a school too (Hidden Oaks Elementary) in their subdivision where their street dead ends into Suburban Dr. - take a right and Suburban dead ends off between two secluded wooded areas (not far from LA's house).

What do you guys think?

Photo of Hidden Oaks Elem off of Suburban.
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo38/beckaroozie/GoogleEarth_Image1.jpg

beckaroozie
11-20-2008, 06:16 PM
What if....what if...she discovered Caylee had died in the trunk, backed her car into the garge, removed Caylee from the car, used the service door on the garage to access the backyard to go unnoticed, and then originally buried her in the backyard (that depression area the cadaver dogs hit on).

Perhaps, she was worried her parents would smell or discover the grave, so she borrowed the neighbor's shovel a few days later, dug her up and then dumped her over the back fence and went back there with the shovel to dig another grave on the backside of the fenced area behind the A's house (Secluded, nobody goes back there, it's undeveloped and inaccessible, except by way of jumping the fence). That's why the dogs 'hit' around the fence??

Does anyone know if the neighbor she borrowed the shovel from said she left the A's house with it?? As in left in her car after borrowing it?

Sheer speculation, I know....but a thought. It would fall in with KC's "She's close to home' statement.

BellaPhia
11-20-2008, 06:49 PM
Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

I think your on to something with the use of the shovel....but maybe rather than using it to remove her from the trunk....she used it to just lift her up enough to slide something underneath her to package her. I dont think she wanted to touch her so she used the shovel.

beckaroozie
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
I think your on to something with the use of the shovel....but maybe rather than using it to remove her from the trunk....she used it to just lift her up enough to slide something underneath her to package her. I dont think she wanted to touch her so she used the shovel.

I was just thinking that KC might have USED the shovel she borrowed from the neighbor to dig up Caylee from where she originally buried her in the backyard, and then tossed her over the fence and dug a new grave behind the fence. If she didn't leave with the shovel in her car to go bury her elsewhere, Caylee must be buried at the house or near? That's where I was going with the thought. She probably already had her in a bag or container, as I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted to look at her while she buried her the first time? There's also some kind of runoff pond back there as well...not far from A's home across fence. I wonder if they searched there?

Maybe Casey thought she was smarter than the average bear burying or disposing of her that close to home? Right under everyone's proverbial nose?

rozey
11-20-2008, 07:34 PM
The theory of her throwing Caylee over the fence and burying her 'close to home', seems plausible. It would fit the idea that Casey is lazy. It brought one thought to mind, the Arm and Hammer Detergent. Has it been clarified whether it was liquid or powdered det? I know we had discussed this way back when. But, it occurred to me that if it was powdered she could have used it to sprinkle on the body/grave. GA said it was the type of det they used. It would have been convenient. How effective it would be, no clue. It would deter animals from digging at the site in the least.
This could also explain the ladder at the pool. I have always thought that the pool was used by Casey to clean up after the deed. She wouldn't have wanted to bring that dirt into the house. Being a semi-clean freak I KNOW when someone has been in the house. In all the videos of A's home with the white carpet and tile, Cindy would have known.
It could tie in with the hits in the backyard if she had removed Caylee's clothes or her own and placed them on the ground before getting in the pool. Someone else mentioned that if she did place a piece of clothing on the ground maybe one of the dogs drug it around. Which could account for the multiple hits.
Just a thought. Wish one of the locals could check it out. With all the rain maybe some of the overburden washed away and exposed something.

passionflower
11-20-2008, 07:49 PM
What if....what if...she discovered Caylee had died in the trunk, backed her car into the garge, removed Caylee from the car, used the service door on the garage to access the backyard to go unnoticed, and then originally buried her in the backyard (that depression area the cadaver dogs hit on).

Perhaps, she was worried her parents would smell or discover the grave, so she borrowed the neighbor's shovel a few days later, dug her up and then dumped her over the back fence and went back there with the shovel to dig another grave on the backside of the fenced area behind the A's house (Secluded, nobody goes back there, it's undeveloped and inaccessible, except by way of jumping the fence). That's why the dogs 'hit' around the fence??

Does anyone know if the neighbor she borrowed the shovel from said she left the A's house with it?? As in left in her car after borrowing it?

Sheer speculation, I know....but a thought. It would fall in with KC's "She's close to home' statement.

WOW, I think that is great thinking........did LE look over the fence???
Ask local people to check this out atleast for 'clothes'........in 1 pix is that where I saw a dumpster once ???

mom_of_five
11-20-2008, 09:03 PM
Casey pinged in these two areas which are wooded. Could these mean anything?

On June 23rd she was around this area which is wooded and looks to have a pond as well:

http://i36.tinypic.com/jucme0.jpg

June 29th Casey pinged in this area too and I noticed that she pinged on this area on July 23rd too.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j0clg8.jpg

Casey actually pinged ALOT from the Perlieu Place tower...I researched that pretty seriously for a couple days until I realized that it was probably the tower she pinged from when at Tony's. I thought the same thing -- lots of woods and some water...

beckaroozie
11-20-2008, 10:26 PM
I went and read the police interview of Brian B***** the neighbor to see if anything was mentioned about whether she left the house or not after borrowing the shovel. He said he saw her car backed into the garage, during the day when no one else was home on the 17th, 19th and the 20th.

She borrowed the shovel from him on the 19th and said she had to 'dig up a bamboo root she was tripping over'. She borrowed it at 1:30 and returned it at 2:30 -- AND DIDN'T LEAVE THE HOUSE AT ALL. He didn't see Caylee with her on any of these days. He said the shovel was clean as a whistle when she brought it back to him...almost like it hadn't been used. IDK if she cleaned it in the pool or what. Her car was parked backwards in the garage the whole time she had the shovel. She didn't leave the house.

Maybe she dragged Caylee (the bag) out of the trunk and across the back yard and that's what the dogs smelled? Perhaps she used the ladder to get high enough to hoist her over the fence and then climb over?

She could have cleaned up herself and the shovel in the pool when she got back, and would have had to put the stairs back there in order to do that. Or maybe if she put her in the runoff pond back there she wouldn't have had to use the shovel at all, no cleaning necessary -- she just put the stairs back at the pool from habit.

Just my thoughts. Anyone else?

JaneInOz
11-20-2008, 10:57 PM
She borrowed the shovel from him on the 19th and said she had to 'dig up a bamboo root she was tripping over'.

Yup cause if I was living with my Dad, thats the first thing I would be doing is borrowing a neighbours shovel to dig up a bamboo root.......UM I THINK NOT ! if i was a party girl like her I wouldn't want my nails getting dirty and I'd be saying 'hey dad can you get rid of that old bamboo root - i keep tripping over it'

It is Their property and NOT hers after all !

Thats a porky if ever i saw one LOL

beckaroozie
11-21-2008, 12:34 AM
:eek:OOoh - I was surfing tonight and found this site that lists out all the individuals of interest in this case and their part/testimony -- http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/whos-who/ This is an excerpt that I found very interesting!!

Dickens, Bailey and Joyce – Anthony’s neighbors. Told Detectives Tom Manderville and Michael Segreaves that on July 19, they had a visit from Kiomarie Torres-Cruz, a former neighbor, whose parents still live in the neighborhood. While visiting with them, Kiomarie mentioned that she had a call from Casey on July 9 and had heard Caylee in the background. She also said Casey had called from a payphone (unsure of date and time). She also said that if Caylee was buried, she was buried by Hidden Oaks Elementary, in the woods where they used to hang out. The Dickens encouraged her to contact LE. Detective Segreaves contacted Appling Wells, who said she had spoken with Kiomarie.

Reference my earlier post (#70) in this thread.

Pink Panther
11-21-2008, 05:45 AM
beckaroozie - Kiomarie's interview was released with the first set of documents. I believe that the area she mentions WAS searched by LE.

beckaroozie
11-21-2008, 08:43 AM
beckaroozie - Kiomarie's interview was released with the first set of documents. I believe that the area she mentions WAS searched by LE.

You're right pink (and thanks) -- I did see that later down that list on the website after I posted. Kiomaria had led LE to the area she was talking about being their hideout. Wonder how well they searched? That's a big area with woods on both sides. Actually leads back to the open ground and retention pond behind the A's house.

One more thing -- there is an ex-bf or someone who lives in the neighborhood (long-time friend) who said he saw her 'jogging' down Chickasaw Trail on (I think) 7/18. He texted her and asked her if that was her jogging on CT and she said 'no'. :) Do you think she is the type to jog? I don't.

Perhaps she 'jogged' down to that school area to check to make sure nothing had been discovered and that the burial site was still in tact? So she didn't have to bring/park her car that would be noticed? Just a leisurely 'jog'? (yawn stretch).

Intermezzo
11-21-2008, 11:20 AM
Willen~ Do you know what these areas consist of? Or major rd names?

Hi
Not sure if it's been answered or addressed.
That is the corner of Forsyth and University Blvd. Not far from Full Sail University and Tony L's apartment.
The large building in the bottom right is a Costco, the smaller one is Chik Fil A.
There is also a large Sears Service/Parts Outlet center across from Costco on Forsyth which is not visible on the maps.
This is a very busy intersection/roadway and Forsyth between Aloma and University is more industrial.

passionflower
11-21-2008, 11:24 AM
:eek:OOoh - I was surfing tonight and found this site that lists out all the individuals of interest in this case and their part/testimony -- http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/whos-who/ This is an excerpt that I found very interesting!!

Dickens, Bailey and Joyce – Anthony’s neighbors. Told Detectives Tom Manderville and Michael Segreaves that on July 19, they had a visit from Kiomarie Torres-Cruz, a former neighbor, whose parents still live in the neighborhood. While visiting with them, Kiomarie mentioned that she had a call from Casey on July 9 and had heard Caylee in the background. She also said Casey had called from a payphone (unsure of date and time). She also said that if Caylee was buried, she was buried by Hidden Oaks Elementary, in the woods where they used to hang out. The Dickens encouraged her to contact LE. Detective Segreaves contacted Appling Wells, who said she had spoken with Kiomarie.

Reference my earlier post (#70) in this thread.


Did TES search this area, or just some local LE???

Intermezzo
11-21-2008, 11:26 AM
Florida seems to have as much water as land, doesn't it?

LOL Yes alot.
But what most think are natural lakes or ponds are really man made called "Retention Ponds or basins" they are used to manage stormwater runoff to help prevent flooding of roadways etc...when it rains.

passionflower
11-21-2008, 11:28 AM
I went and read the police interview of Brian B***** the neighbor to see if anything was mentioned about whether she left the house or not after borrowing the shovel. He said he saw her car backed into the garage, during the day when no one else was home on the 17th, 19th and the 20th.

She borrowed the shovel from him on the 19th and said she had to 'dig up a bamboo root she was tripping over'. She borrowed it at 1:30 and returned it at 2:30 -- AND DIDN'T LEAVE THE HOUSE AT ALL. He didn't see Caylee with her on any of these days. He said the shovel was clean as a whistle when she brought it back to him...almost like it hadn't been used. IDK if she cleaned it in the pool or what. Her car was parked backwards in the garage the whole time she had the shovel. She didn't leave the house.

Maybe she dragged Caylee (the bag) out of the trunk and across the back yard and that's what the dogs smelled? Perhaps she used the ladder to get high enough to hoist her over the fence and then climb over?

She could have cleaned up herself and the shovel in the pool when she got back, and would have had to put the stairs back there in order to do that. Or maybe if she put her in the runoff pond back there she wouldn't have had to use the shovel at all, no cleaning necessary -- she just put the stairs back at the pool from habit.

Just my thoughts. Anyone else?

THe words DIG UP popped in my mind..........is this the day she dug Caylee back up after burying her briefly in the back yard and transported her TO the trunk??????? MOO

beckaroozie
11-21-2008, 12:32 PM
Oooh -- that's a good thought Passion!

But if she had her car backed into the A's garage for 3 days in a row (and borrowed the shovel) -- she was doing something in the trunk...so I think she was taking Caylee out of the trunk then and cleaning it up, but that doesn't preclude her from having moved her again on 7/18.

The only thing though -- if KC killed her (or Caylee died) on 6/16, as everyone thinks, then she would have been in the trunk the 2.6 days (shown from decomp forensics) when KC borrowed the shovel to take her out of trunk and bury her that first time on 6/19. If she dug her up again after that, do you think that decomp forensics would have shown something else? Surely she couldn't have moved her again without more bodily fluid transfer into the trunk?

WillenFan21
11-22-2008, 08:27 PM
There wasn't that big of a stain in the trunk though so I don't think Caylees body laid in there for days and days. The fence theory is very plausible!

cocoamom
11-28-2008, 11:17 PM
The car was parked at the Amscott starting on the night of the 26th, late night. It was towed from the Amscott on the 30th and was on the tow yard lot from then on until George and Cindy collected it. Casey would have had to have had the body out of the car by the 30th at the latest, unless, as I saw over in another thread, Caylee was in the car when George and Cindy picked it up, but not visible, and was UNDER the carpet and the trunk liner in the spare tire space and they found her when THEY got home...which I doubt simply because of Cindy's "It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car" statement on the 911 call. The body could have been in there, though, from the 16th up until the car was abandoned and that would have been close to 2 weeks...so it is worth looking into.

I personally believe she could have been in the car when she ran out of gas and she tossed her into the dumpster there or near there, as she had no choice and could not just leave her there...

Hmmmm How about this?

Death on 16th body stored in A's back yard.

Due to rigor, couldn't move body for a couple days but it has to be moved or it may be found.

2.6 days after death, body put in trunk in say garbage bag but during transfer into trunk a "spill" happens.

Body moved to another location

26th - that 2nd location is approaching the end of the month and body has to be moved again or it will be found. Body was at this location from about 18th to 26th.

Body put into wheel well/spare tire place in trunk in anticipation of moving to final place.

Car runs out of gas. Body still in trunk. Tried to get gas to complete mission.

30th car towed

15th car retrieved (19 days) with body still in wheel well/spare tire hole.

Body removed and disposed of by ______(fill in blank with someone other than KC).

flnana
12-02-2008, 09:33 PM
[QUOTE=beckaroozie;2970902]You're right pink (and thanks) -- I did see that later down that list on the website after I posted. Kiomaria had led LE to the area she was talking about being their hideout. Wonder how well they searched? That's a big area with woods on both sides. Actually leads back to the open ground and retention pond behind the A's house.

One more thing -- there is an ex-bf or someone who lives in the neighborhood (long-time friend) who said he saw her 'jogging' down Chickasaw Trail on (I think) 7/18. He texted her and asked her if that was her jogging on CT and she said 'no'. :) Do you think she is the type to jog? I don't.

In the latest document dump CA said that KC ran track. Maybe she did jog?? It was when the agent asked her about KC being competitive and she said she ran cross country and it was more of a "team effort" than individual competitiveness.
Is the school near Suburban Rd (Dr?) where the teenagers found the buried rope? It was never mentioned what was found at the end of the rope, if anything.
I hope I did this correctly--1st post.
I just previewed--how do you keep it from being too long for the screen?

AZlawyer
12-03-2008, 06:59 PM
[QUOTE=beckaroozie;2970902]You're right pink (and thanks) -- I did see that later down that list on the website after I posted. Kiomaria had led LE to the area she was talking about being their hideout. Wonder how well they searched? That's a big area with woods on both sides. Actually leads back to the open ground and retention pond behind the A's house.

One more thing -- there is an ex-bf or someone who lives in the neighborhood (long-time friend) who said he saw her 'jogging' down Chickasaw Trail on (I think) 7/18. He texted her and asked her if that was her jogging on CT and she said 'no'. :) Do you think she is the type to jog? I don't.

In the latest document dump CA said that KC ran track. Maybe she did jog?? It was when the agent asked her about KC being competitive and she said she ran cross country and it was more of a "team effort" than individual competitiveness.
Is the school near Suburban Rd (Dr?) where the teenagers found the buried rope? It was never mentioned what was found at the end of the rope, if anything.
I hope I did this correctly--1st post.
I just previewed--how do you keep it from being too long for the screen?


It was Chris S**** who thought he saw her jogging. He told LE it was on 7/15/08, but based on his text message to KC asking if she was jogging, it was early morning on 7/14/08.

flnana
12-03-2008, 08:39 PM
Is this the same Chris who returned a bag of Caylee's clothes to CA?

Recovering-Lurker
12-03-2008, 11:40 PM
:eek:OOoh - I was surfing tonight and found this site that lists out all the individuals of interest in this case and their part/testimony -- http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/whos-who/ This is an excerpt that I found very interesting!!

Dickens, Bailey and Joyce – Anthony’s neighbors. Told Detectives Tom Manderville and Michael Segreaves that on July 19, they had a visit from Kiomarie Torres-Cruz, a former neighbor, whose parents still live in the neighborhood. While visiting with them, Kiomarie mentioned that she had a call from Casey on July 9 and had heard Caylee in the background. She also said Casey had called from a payphone (unsure of date and time). She also said that if Caylee was buried, she was buried by Hidden Oaks Elementary, in the woods where they used to hang out. The Dickens encouraged her to contact LE. Detective Segreaves contacted Appling Wells, who said she had spoken with Kiomarie.

Reference my earlier post (#70) in this thread.

And isn't this the same place where the 5 people found the rope and what looked like a shallow grave? Their statements were in the latest doc dump.

Recovering-Lurker
12-03-2008, 11:41 PM
Is this the same Chris who returned a bag of Caylee's clothes to CA?

Yes. There still hasn't been an explanation of why he had them in the first place.

flnana
12-04-2008, 12:23 AM
Yes. There still hasn't been an explanation of why he had them in the first place.

_________________________
If he knew KC well enough to have Caylee's clothes it would seem that he would recognize her if he saw her running. That is a little weird. I wonder what happened to the clothes he returned? I know there was a Dora swim suit that had the a life jacket sewn inside it, but I don't remember what else was mentioned. It does make me curious as to why he would have them--also, how long had he had them?

Crafti
12-27-2008, 09:58 PM
Very interesting posts here, knowing what we know now. "Close to home", Kio Marie, the Meter Reader, many of us. Things you are looking for always seem to be right under your nose, but you just can't see them because you're looking too hard.

I wish LE hadn't been so bombed with soooo many "sightings", and the crowds and media frenzy. Maybe they could have put it together and found her sooner. Would have been interesting if this forum had created a thread for each of the most likely "possible locations of the body" and see which location had the most response too. I guess that could have exploded into 100 threads - but maybe not.

Stocirpa
01-25-2009, 06:00 PM
Since the forensic report clearly indicated that the body placed in the car trunk had been in an early stage of decomposition (up to two days after death), the June 16-18 time span appears to be correct.

spyhouston
01-26-2009, 08:56 AM
As of now, late January, I'm wondering if the car still has the decomp smell.

Noway
01-26-2009, 12:13 PM
Is this the same Chris who returned a bag of Caylee's clothes to CA?


Yes. There still hasn't been an explanation of why he had them in the first place.

I thought Caylee and Casey spent the day at his parent's house with him and they were swimming? Casey left the wet swimsuit and some other items.

I'm trying to find where I read that and will put link here as soon as I can.

austin-215
01-28-2009, 10:37 AM
As of now, late January, I'm wondering if the car still has the decomp smell.

you bet it is, once the bodily fluids escape, the odor is permeated into everything it touches. you cannot get it out.

waiting4change
01-28-2009, 11:54 AM
you bet it is, once the bodily fluids escape, the odor is permeated into everything it touches. you cannot get it out.

So then it is safe to say that the clothing that LE confiscated with the stains could actually smell like decomp? If in fact that was what caused the stain. That would be great evidence to come out.....wonder if the family would then still want to blame somebody else?:waitasec:

AZlawyer
01-28-2009, 12:53 PM
So then it is safe to say that the clothing that LE confiscated with the stains could actually smell like decomp? If in fact that was what caused the stain. That would be great evidence to come out.....wonder if the family would then still want to blame somebody else?:waitasec:

I bet the stains are just laundry detergent that didn't rinse out all the way in the machine. Detergents will glow under forensic lights.

waiting4change
01-28-2009, 08:19 PM
I bet the stains are just laundry detergent that didn't rinse out all the way in the machine. Detergents will glow under forensic lights.

I guess it was wishful thinking on my part. :rolleyes:

DaughterAlice
01-31-2009, 04:36 PM
So then it is safe to say that the clothing that LE confiscated with the stains could actually smell like decomp? If in fact that was what caused the stain. That would be great evidence to come out.....wonder if the family would then still want to blame somebody else?:waitasec:

All I know is that when one of my kids has a pee-pee accident, it takes at least 2x through the wash to get the urine smell out (+ I usually have to soak it too). I use perfume free detergent, so there's nothing to mask the smell if it didn't all wash out. It seems like the smell of decomp would be about 1000x worse than just urine!!

They did actually collect those clothes, even though CA washed them, right?

seagull65
02-25-2009, 01:17 AM
Didn't TL say he didn't notice any smell around the car or on KC on June 23? I'm going to have to go check again.
And GR of Johnson's Wrecker towed the Pontiac 9:16am 30th June, did not notice any odor (though he says he had a cold).

JBean
02-25-2009, 02:06 AM
Just looking at old threads, that was amazing that Beckaroozie posted this way back in November. :)You probably won't be surprised when I tell you several sleuths isolated this location,mapped and posted it the first week in AUGUST.

seagull65
02-25-2009, 11:26 PM
I think those folks should be on the psychic thread, too (maybe they are) :) Seagull

I know psychics Gail St John and Travis and the other nice searcher (also a psychic or from TES? I can't remember, the lady with long blond hair) and their dogs were drawn to the area in August.
If I were a local, I would have wanted to search that area too, just seeing it there so nearby in the neighborhood. But out of towners who singled out that area so early on do amaze me.

magic-cat
03-08-2009, 11:14 PM
snipped:
On June 26, Casey Anthony wrote, “I need a freaking vacation.”
The next day, a text message told Huizenga about how her car smelled like a dead animal — and how it was possibly a squirrel that was run over.

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/docs-casey-anthony-sent-553-cell-text-messages-two-about-daughter/

So the first time she mentions the smell to Amy that we know of is the 27th?


Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

Quoting myself...I cannot believe how close the exactly what she did in this "theory"...that is skeeerrryyy!


I don't think Caylee was in a container in that trunk otherwise why would that car still smell after 4 months?

Maybe because it was not a sealed container as we had earlier surmised but was rather an open top laundry bag, from whence the scent of death could have continued to disperse odor into the trunk...

Woe.be.gone
04-05-2009, 12:10 PM
If the corpse was removed from the trunk of the Pontiac on June 19, would it be possible to retain the car for seven days beyond that date without encountering second party questioning as to the smell therein?

TL was near the car on June 23 - claims no smell
GA was near the car on June 24 - claims no smell
TL was near the car on June 27 - claims no smell
Tow yard guys never reported a smell which is strange too.

What would the progression of the smell be? Is was contained in a closed car. Why would it not release upon the opening of the trunk?

Wow! Post No. 70 dtd. 11/20/08 Amazing!

Woe.be.gone
04-05-2009, 04:08 PM
What if Caylee died at the Anthony's home on the 16th (JG heard KC tell Caylee to get off the table and said something about touching something that was KC's). After KC realized the grave state of Caylee's condition (caused by her own neglect and drug use (my belief)), she rushed her to the trunk of her car.

On the 18th, KC returned to Hopespring Dr. with Caylee still in the trunk now leaking fluids. KC removed Caylee from the trunk and brought her in the backyard, taped her mouth as we know from the way the skull was found in order to stop further leakage, and bagged Caylee's little body :cry: as she was found (except bags had come apart, etc.) EXCEPT this would only add up to two days of decomp.

KC placed the newly bagged body back in the trunk on the 18th, cleaned and returned the shovel and drove away.

KC unloaded the bag at the end of her block that same day (18th) or the next day on the 19th.

In the following days she returned to Hopespring with her car in order to undertake cleanup of the trunk, to steal gas, to return stolen gas cans, as well as to get more clothes to take over to TL's.

She may have used to shovel on the 18th to touch up the area she had "dressed" Caylee and as a tool to lift or roll the body with.

All of the above could have been done without anyone elses knowledge but I cannot explain why neither TL nor GA would not notice an odor from the car on June 23 and 24. Both encounters involved the trunk being opened with them standing in close proximity to the trunk.

June 16 to June 23 = 7 days. Would the leaked fluids produce the strong odor in seven/eight days?

The fluid was leaked by a 2.5 day decomp but the repackaged body may have remained in the trunk longer.

WAIT a sec, 2.5 decomp would mean Caylee had been in the trunk since late on the 15th unless her body was not rebagged until the 19th. She had to be in the trunk without the bags initially to leave the stains.

If she was not in the trunk until the 18th, I don't think the stains would be there. If Caylee was in the backyard the 16th, 17th and part of the 18th, KC would have "dressed" her prior to placing her in the trunk. Unless she did a half arsed job the 18th, noticed the leakage, came back on the 19th and used the tape and added the laundry bag.

Or, she died elsewhere and was placed in the trunk initially and KC drove to Hopespring to do the bagging. This would mean that Caylee's dead body had not been at the ANT's home prior to the 18th. The dogs hit cuz KC used the backyard to do her dirty work - taping, bagging, etc. on the 18th.

Can anyone think of anything that would help place the location of Caylee's death or to explain why TL and GA say there was no smell being emitted from the Pontiac on either June 23 or 24?

The World According
04-25-2009, 09:39 AM
What if Caylee died at the Anthony's home on the 16th (JG heard KC tell Caylee to get off the table and said something about touching something that was KC's). After KC realized the grave state of Caylee's condition (caused by her own neglect and drug use (my belief)), she rushed her to the trunk of her car.

On the 18th, KC returned to Hopespring Dr. with Caylee still in the trunk now leaking fluids. KC removed Caylee from the trunk and brought her in the backyard, taped her mouth as we know from the way the skull was found in order to stop further leakage, and bagged Caylee's little body :cry: as she was found (except bags had come apart, etc.) EXCEPT this would only add up to two days of decomp.

KC placed the newly bagged body back in the trunk on the 18th, cleaned and returned the shovel and drove away.

KC unloaded the bag at the end of her block that same day (18th) or the next day on the 19th.

In the following days she returned to Hopespring with her car in order to undertake cleanup of the trunk, to steal gas, to return stolen gas cans, as well as to get more clothes to take over to TL's.

She may have used to shovel on the 18th to touch up the area she had "dressed" Caylee and as a tool to lift or roll the body with.

All of the above could have been done without anyone elses knowledge but I cannot explain why neither TL nor GA would not notice an odor from the car on June 23 and 24. Both encounters involved the trunk being opened with them standing in close proximity to the trunk.

June 16 to June 23 = 7 days. Would the leaked fluids produce the strong odor in seven/eight days?

The fluid was leaked by a 2.5 day decomp but the repackaged body may have remained in the trunk longer.

WAIT a sec, 2.5 decomp would mean Caylee had been in the trunk since late on the 15th unless her body was not rebagged until the 19th. She had to be in the trunk without the bags initially to leave the stains.

If she was not in the trunk until the 18th, I don't think the stains would be there. If Caylee was in the backyard the 16th, 17th and part of the 18th, KC would have "dressed" her prior to placing her in the trunk. Unless she did a half arsed job the 18th, noticed the leakage, came back on the 19th and used the tape and added the laundry bag.

Or, she died elsewhere and was placed in the trunk initially and KC drove to Hopespring to do the bagging. This would mean that Caylee's dead body had not been at the ANT's home prior to the 18th. The dogs hit cuz KC used the backyard to do her dirty work - taping, bagging, etc. on the 18th.

Can anyone think of anything that would help place the location of Caylee's death or to explain why TL and GA say there was no smell being emitted from the Pontiac on either June 23 or 24?

Tony said KC was already standing outside of her car when he picked her up from Amscot. He never got out of his car. Since the Amscot manager saw the car there when she arrived for work at 7 am, the car had likely been there all night. The interesting thing is Tony said KC had just come from her folks house as she had things from their home freezer, like chicken in glad freezer bags and frozen freezer pops, so someone gave her a ride from her folks house to Amcot to be there at the time of day Tony picked her up. That someone is unknown. I'm sure the police checked all cab company records to see if she used one. So many boyfriends and hook ups, some of them on the force, some married, maybe there is a private reason this person is not coming forward, but SOMEONE drover her there. Did anyone notice when Cindy asked KC during a jailhouse visit, "Why didn't SHE come back for the car? It doesn't make any sense!", KC obviously told her parents that some female other than she was driving and had abandoned the car there? I want Morgan to ask Cindy who she was referring to as the "She", what did KC tell her regarding this other person driving that car and leaving it there.

spqr
04-25-2009, 01:28 PM
A note on the odor and the masking/hiding of the odor. From personal experience...many years as a police officer...a full year of which was spent at the medical examiners office after 9/11....many of us used to use vicks vapo-rub inside of our face masks. Yes I know it opens nasal passages more but...it is the only thing that actually masks the horrible odor. You dont need much inside the mask and it will last for many hours. All you smell is menthol.

Secondly....do we have any knowledge of casey buying a large amount of salt? I hate to say it but alot of meats are "cured" by packing with salt. Preserves very well...maybe just to hide long enough for disposal.

ibyoungr
04-26-2009, 12:26 PM
A note on the odor and the masking/hiding of the odor. From personal experience...many years as a police officer...a full year of which was spent at the medical examiners office after 9/11....many of us used to use vicks vapo-rub inside of our face masks. Yes I know it opens nasal passages more but...it is the only thing that actually masks the horrible odor. You dont need much inside the mask and it will last for many hours. All you smell is menthol.

Secondly....do we have any knowledge of casey buying a large amount of salt? I hate to say it but alot of meats are "cured" by packing with salt. Preserves very well...maybe just to hide long enough for disposal.

OT, but I know from experience that feedlot workers due to the smell use Vicks in their noses because of the smell. It also helps prevent the high rate of possible sinus infections.

How soon would that body had to smell really bad in the whole car? By the 18th?
Didn't Casey have a cold about in and around June? It was in a text.

Woe.be.gone
04-26-2009, 02:28 PM
Tony said KC was already standing outside of her car when he picked her up from Amscot. He never got out of his car. Since the Amscot manager saw the car there when she arrived for work at 7 am, the car had likely been there all night. The interesting thing is Tony said KC had just come from her folks house as she had things from their home freezer, like chicken in glad freezer bags and frozen freezer pops, so someone gave her a ride from her folks house to Amcot to be there at the time of day Tony picked her up. That someone is unknown. I'm sure the police checked all cab company records to see if she used one. So many boyfriends and hook ups, some of them on the force, some married, maybe there is a private reason this person is not coming forward, but SOMEONE drover her there. Did anyone notice when Cindy asked KC during a jailhouse visit, "Why didn't SHE come back for the car? It doesn't make any sense!", KC obviously told her parents that some female other than she was driving and had abandoned the car there? I want Morgan to ask Cindy who she was referring to as the "She", what did KC tell her regarding this other person driving that car and leaving it there.

Yes TL said while at Amscot he did not exit his car which is believable.

There was another gas can assist call from KC to TL on June 23. On this day TL assisted KC to get the cans out of the shed. They went back to KC's car where TL said that he got the gas can out of his jeep and brought it to KC who did the pouring of the gas into her car. Thinking back to my glory days, if I were with a guy, I'm sure he would have done the whole thing for me and I gratefully would have let him! TL says KC poured the gas and then put the can in her own trunk, etc. TL would have been standing near the gas hole (huh-?) for a little while but did not assist KC any further. He returned to his jeep.

GA was near the trunk the next day on June 24. Amscot was later in the week.

It is a mystery that three men; TL, GA and tow guy did not mention/report this unique, foul smell. Tow guy said he had a cold but you'd think, over the next week or two, someone would walk near the car and notice the smell.:waitasec:

Woe.be.gone
04-26-2009, 02:43 PM
A note on the odor and the masking/hiding of the odor. From personal experience...many years as a police officer...a full year of which was spent at the medical examiners office after 9/11....many of us used to use vicks vapo-rub inside of our face masks. Yes I know it opens nasal passages more but...it is the only thing that actually masks the horrible odor. You dont need much inside the mask and it will last for many hours. All you smell is menthol.

Secondly....do we have any knowledge of casey buying a large amount of salt? I hate to say it but alot of meats are "cured" by packing with salt. Preserves very well...maybe just to hide long enough for disposal.

Thank you for your service at a very difficult time.

Don't take this wrong, but I don't think TL, GA or the guys working at the tow yard wore face masks with Vicks. Great tip though for if/when I have to do a smelly job.

I haven't heard anything about salt reported. My guess is KC would not have known that but one never knows.:)

Woe.be.gone
04-26-2009, 02:49 PM
OT, but I know from experience that feedlot workers due to the smell use Vicks in their noses because of the smell. It also helps prevent the high rate of possible sinus infections.

How soon would that body had to smell really bad in the whole car? By the 18th?
Didn't Casey have a cold about in and around June? It was in a text.

I remember KC talking about a cold or Caylee having one but I think that was one of her put off lies to AH in order to excuse herself from prior plans she had made and was breaking.:(

zippitydo
04-26-2009, 03:25 PM
(MODS I hope this is OK)

OK so on Nancy Grace she had a ME on her show that explained why the car would still smell 4 months later. The medical examiner man that she had on there said that he thinks the body was in the car for two weeks.

Could this mean that there is a different time line then of when she disposed of the body? Maybe we should look over the pings and see if we can get a different location that Casey may have been at since the time line could be changed. I agree with the ME that her body would have been in there for a long time. If Caylee was killed on the 16th then that means two weeks later it would have been June 30th or around that time that Caylees body was gone. She could have disposed of the body in July even.

Does anyone know the date the car was pick up by GA?

nyvictoria
04-26-2009, 05:45 PM
Yes TL said while at Amscot he did not exit his car which is believable.

There was another gas can assist call from KC to TL on June 23. On this day TL assisted KC to get the cans out of the shed. They went back to KC's car where TL said that he got the gas can out of his jeep and brought it to KC who did the pouring of the gas into her car. Thinking back to my glory days, if I were with a guy, I'm sure he would have done the whole thing for me and I gratefully would have let him! TL says KC poured the gas and then put the can in her own trunk, etc. TL would have been standing near the gas hole (huh-?) for a little while but did not assist KC any further. He returned to his jeep.

GA was near the trunk the next day on June 24. Amscot was later in the week.

It is a mystery that three men; TL, GA and tow guy did not mention/report this unique, foul smell. Tow guy said he had a cold but you'd think, over the next week or two, someone would walk near the car and notice the smell.:waitasec:

Tis a mystery all right!

It's just may be that TL, never having smelled such an odor before, was simply unaware what it was. Couple that with the fact that Casey was pouring gasoline, which emits powerful vapors, it's just possible he didn't smell anything that would set off alarm bells. I find that gasoline smells sickeningly sweet, a property slightly similar to the underlying odor of decomposition. I'm sure LE questioned Tony about whether Casey's car smelled but I can't recall how he answered. Could Casey have told him about running over something? I don't remember enough of Tony's interviews to answer my own questions. I think I'll review them tonight. It'll give me something constructive to do LOL

As for George, I don't believe much of anything he says. If he got close enough to the car on the day Casey gave him his "f***ing gas cans", he smelled it! He claimed he was close enough to be able to glance into the trunk but I don't believe that either. Perhaps Casey left them in the garage for him to find? I don't think George is at all reliable as far as the smell of the car in relation to the return of the gas cans. Let's face it, instead of calling LE from the tow lot he chose to tamper with evidence.

leemarie85
04-26-2009, 06:23 PM
I've been wracking my brain for weeks now, over this bag of trash found in the trunk. Why would someone put obviously household trash in their trunk and drive around with it, when surely there are plenty of dumpsters in an apartment complex? Why would KC take TL's trash out, only to put it in her trunk???:waitasec: And then, it hit me...when the trunk started to smell, she threw some fab softener sheets in there...then the empty (or almost empty) detergent bottle...wonder if the cap was on or off?? Still couldn't get rid of the smell....my guess is she tried to clean the carpet, but the fluids had leaked down into the spare tire well, and it didn't occur to KC to lift the trunk liner and clean it off. I know LE found fab softener sheets in there, it was in the discovery of what was in the trunk (sorry, no link, but I know I can find it). When the smell started to get really bad, she threw a bag of trash on top of the stain to try to 'mask' the odor, in case anyone else noticed. She could say, 'oh, wow, I forgot to toss that smelly trash in here, how stupid of me...'What do you guys think?

nyvictoria
04-26-2009, 08:18 PM
Ok, I reread Tony's October 16th interview. In recounting the events of the "Big Gas Can Heist" on June 23rd, he stated he stayed near the passenger side door while Casey filled the car with gas (on the same side). While she was filling the car, the trunk was closed. He said he offered to help with the gas but she said she would do it herself. He put the cap back on the first can while she emptied the second one. After emptying both, she opened the trunk and walked back to pick up the cans. As she was putting them in the trunk, he was already at his car putting down the tailgate. All he remembers is the smell of the gas, "just the gas". He really wasn't near the car all that long. As I said before, I think because he smelled the gas fumes and was not familiar with the stench of decomposition, he simply would not have noticed. Once the cans were packed away in her trunk she closed it, got in her car and followed him back to his place.

ETA...woe.be.gone I know you recounted this in your post above. I just wanted to add a few details, if only for my own clarification :)

I'd be interested to know where she kept her car when she parked at his complex. I would imagine it was somewhere away from his parking spot and the entrance to his apartment. It really does boggle the mind how she managed to drive around reeking of Caylee's body without anyone noticing. Decomposition sticks to your hair and clothing, not to mention it stays in the nostrils for a long, long time. I'll bet she took plenty of showers!!

I Din Doot
04-27-2009, 12:19 AM
The bag ripped.

In my limited, unqualified experience,uhhum!!

Every time I tried to get potting soil/ chicken feed/ fertilizer out of the trunk it got caught on something and I had a mess to clean up.

The baby was a 40LB, leaking, heavy, rigormotis, odiferous (who's watching,((damn neighbors))) situation. Maybe needed duct tape to stop leakage.
Drag that out of the trunk in a hurry and it will get on your pants (the ones that were in the car((that Cindy washed)) .

Maybe some of that juice was on the gas cans that left enough odor in the backyard for cadaver dogs to smell.

A slight change in this scenario would make a major change in WHEN there was an odor and HOW STONG the odor was!!

I don't` mean to be crude but the reality is - put a groundhog in your trunk for a couple days. Like my Daddy said "Have fun son but don't git nun onya".

The crime will only be solved when Cindy has the epipheny!

JBean
04-27-2009, 12:24 AM
welcome I din doot :)

I Din Doot
04-27-2009, 12:28 AM
TY, I realy din doot!!

nyvictoria
04-27-2009, 08:59 AM
TY, I realy din doot!!



Welcome!! Have a look around the threads...I'm sure you'll have a lot to contribute! :)