Kobe Bryant

[therealbeatlegirl]

Am I missing something? I can't find a thread on this site that discusses the Kobe Bryant case. I had a question regarding the victim's blood on Kobe's t-shirt. Did the blood get on the shirt while he was wearing it, or was it in the bathroom and she maybe used the shirt to wipe off with? Please let me know if and where there is a websleuths discussion thread on this case. I'm probably looking right at it and will feel silly having asked... :confused: Thank you. Peace, beatlegirl

[Levi]

Am I missing something? I can't find a thread on this site that discusses the Kobe Bryant case. I had a question regarding the victim's blood on Kobe's t-shirt. Did the blood get on the shirt while he was wearing it, or was it in the bathroom and she maybe used the shirt to wipe off with? Please let me know if and where there is a websleuths discussion thread on this case. I'm probably looking right at it and will feel silly having asked... :confused: Thank you. Peace, beatlegirl

Me neither, I am guessing we discuss under trials, but I really dont understand, there is a Michael Jackson thread, & a Scott Peterson, Ramsey Case. I think they should make a Kobe Bryant sex scandel thread.

[therealbeatlegirl]

Levi,
Thanks for responding. I know this site could add a lot to my knowledge of the Kobe investigation and upcoming trial if it were discussed. Maybe this thread will get the ball rolling. Peace, Dinah

[turbosleuthing]

There was a thread but when things were modified i believe it was gone.

Ask admin if they are going to start a new one.

[mommyd]

IMHO, I think the man is guilty but I think he will get off just because of who he is.

This is a classic case of He said/She said.

[therealbeatlegirl]

IMHO, I think the man is guilty but I think he will get off just because of who he is.

This is a classic case of He said/She said.
I have visited another website that discusses this case in-depth and has posted a question/answer session with the author of the book "Kobe Bryant: The Game of His Life." The author (can't remember his name but can supply the link if anyone is interested) stated that the outcome of the trial, or even if there is a trial (instead of a plea bargin) will depend on what evidence is deemed admitted by the Judge, most importantly Kobe's initial interview with police in which he hesitated for 30 seconds before answering "No" when asked if the girl ever said stop or no. Peace, beatlegirl

[Newswolf]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5070072/

"Tests show that traces of two other men's sperm were found in her body, MSNBC-TV reported, whereas it had previously been reported that the sperm was found only in her underwear. "

"In the hearing Thursday, Bryant’s attorneys asked a judge to order a co-worker and a former boyfriend of a woman accusing the NBA star of rape to submit DNA samples, saying they could prove she lied about her sex life.


Defense attorney Hal Haddon told Judge Terry Ruckriegle that one of the men has already agreed. But an attorney for the other man — former boyfriend Matt Herr — said such an order would violate Herr’s constitutional rights.

Ruckriegle did not immediately rule."

No trial date set yet.

[MysteryMomma]

I don't know if Kobe is guilty or not. I lean towards guilt......

[Jack]

This is a classic case of He said/She said.


Yep, it sure is. However, every now and then it is the woman who isn't speaking the truth. I'm leaning toward not guilty, rape doesn't fit his personality but lying seems to fit hers. Of course I could be wrong.

[MysteryMomma]

When I first heard this case I had a theory:

I thought the victim was impressed with his celebrity and flirtations went to his room with him and got caught up in the moment and started having sex with Kobe. I think Kobe might like it on the rough side and this scared this young women. Sex can be painful even if it is consensual add in the strength of a professional athlete and it could be trouble. I also think women can have many things on their minds during sex and if she has any morals maybe she remembered this was a married man and she started feeling bad. Many things could have made her change her mind. I could see Kobe not stopping when asked or the girl not even verbalizing "No".

This is just my imagination has nothing to do with evidence.

[Newswolf]

Some of the young woman's "friends" have stepped forward saying she is bipolar and on a powerful drug called Risperdal, that she is a liar (perhaps because of the illness). I don't know what the truth is. (And I don't want friends like that.) The latest wrinkle is that the judge will examine the text messages from her cell phone. Defense believes she sent messages after the "incident" with KB.

[Brefie]

News, I hear what you are saying about not wanting friends like that.....but no way would I let a man innocent of rape go to jail for it. However much I loved my friend, if I knew she was lying, I would say so and indeed, testify to that.

Even if he is found not guilty, (which I think he IS not guilty) his life is ruined.


If this girl IS lying, I have to say, I hope the tabloids have a field day with it.

[Newswolf]

Brefie you Bad Thing - I totally agree with you! :slap:

[MysteryMomma]

I wonder if this gal has really thought about what she will go through if Kobe is found innocent? She will be eaten alive, burned at the stake......

Kobe has some kick butt attorney's that will aggressively defend him.

If she is bipolar she could like the drama of this trial, the high from this may out weigh common sense. Jeez, how terrible this thing could get.

[sariebell]

I read an article in a magazine the other day that said that the sex was consentual until Kobe ejaculated semen onto her face. That's when things turned. I don't know what to believe anymore. Makes sense, sort of...

[Jack]

Sariebell, I imagine if it went to that "stage" it was probably over at that point. Can't change your mind after the fact... Maybe that's what's going on with her. I can see that the whole episode may have been so far out of her expectations that she felt she had to accuse to make herself feel better. Don't know. Being a woman myself though I can tell you that if I had been raped, or even in a situation that was consentual but just hurt me, I would not be running out and having relations with anyone else right away. That's what gets me. If it is proven that she did sleep with one or more men within hours of allegedly being raped then there is no way that I could even consider her rape allegation as being true if I were a juror.

[MysteryMomma]

A girlfriend of mine bruises very easily and every time she has sex she gets terrible bruising on her inner thighs and knees. She looks like she was roughed up something awful. She only shared this with me cuz I noticed the bruising when she was wearing shorts and we are close friends. I often teased her about "getting some" whenever I saw bruises on her legs or knees.

Can you imagine if someone like my friend accused someone and had all those bruises to back her story up? Rape is so hard to prove.

[Babcat]

I read an article in a magazine the other day that said that the sex was consentual until Kobe ejaculated semen onto her face. That's when things turned. I don't know what to believe anymore. Makes sense, sort of...

I'd love to know when that happened since according to her story and HIS, he bent her over a chair and "entered" from behind.

Bi-polar conditions are so common that a good 10% of the population is afflicted. And there are more untreated, undiagnosed, or misdiagnosed cases of bi-polarism than there are reported and treated cases. There needs to be some serious education in this country, mandatory, on mental illness and the myths and realities.

I'm leaning toward not guilty, rape doesn't fit his personality

Whose personality does rape "fit"? Do you know Kobe Bryant personally? Does double murder fit the personality of pre 1994 OJ Simpson?

Sex can be painful even if it is consensual add in the strength of a professional athlete and it could be trouble.

Do professional athletes have sex differently than the rest of us?? If they do... such as excessively rough... should this be expected because, after all, they are professional athletes. :confused: And remember... according to the defense, this girl is an absolute slut. By now she should be three times the size (in diameter vaginally) of "good" or "wholesome" 19 or 20-year-olds. So what made her bleed?

I also think women can have many things on their minds during sex and if she has any morals maybe she remembered this was a married man and she started feeling bad.

OK... so now Kobe shouldn't be "feeling bad" that he happens to be the only one of this duo who is married and cheating... instead SHE should take over in the guilt department and feel remorseful for hurting this other woman she doesn't know. But remember??... She's a slut! She doesn't care who she hurts. And besides... the remedy for aleviating guilt caused by cheating with this married man is now to accuse him of rape?? THAT is suppose to make his wife... whom you feel sympathy for... feel so much better? How does this make sense?


There is an awful lot of victim blaming and "comfortable denial" going on in this case. Rape, unlike any other crime, brings scorn upon the victim, especially when the offender is someone we prefer to look up to. It's her fault because she went in his room in the first place. It's her fault because she didn't scream or fight enough. It's her fault because she has had sex willingly with people in the past.

Absolutely EVERY effort will be made to divert attention from the person who actually committed the crime. And while every creative explanation is being asserted to show how she did everything wrong and practically requested rape... every creative excuse in the book will be asserted to lessen the culpability of the offender... such as "He didn't hear her say no"... "He thought she was into it"... "A lot of women cry during sex"... "Men can't turn it off once they get to a certain point"... :sick:

The reality is that three times as many rapes occur than are reported. Women and young girls avoid reporting rape because they fear they will not be believed... and they are rarely proved wrong in that belief. Statistics recorded over thirty years time indicate that less than one percent of rapes that are reported turn out to be false accusations. More than 90% of men who are aquitted on a rape charge because a jury fails to believe the victim, will be in court again charged with rape within 7 years. One can only imagine how many unreported rapes happened in the interim. 87% of rapists are successful, thought highly of, and law abiding in every other aspect of their lives. They are all races, all classes, and all ages.

[LP Moderator]

Sariebell, I imagine if it went to that "stage" it was probably over at that point. Can't change your mind after the fact... Maybe that's what's going on with her. I can see that the whole episode may have been so far out of her expectations that she felt she had to accuse to make herself feel better. Don't know. Being a woman myself though I can tell you that if I had been raped, or even in a situation that was consentual but just hurt me, I would not be running out and having relations with anyone else right away. That's what gets me. If it is proven that she did sleep with one or more men within hours of allegedly being raped then there is no way that I could even consider her rape allegation as being true if I were a juror.


Jack, neither could I.

[Jack]

Whose personality does rape "fit"? Do you know Kobe Bryant personally? Does double murder fit the personality of pre 1994 OJ Simpson?


The reality is that three times as many rapes occur than are reported. Women and young girls avoid reporting rape because they fear they will not be believed... and they are rarely proved wrong in that belief. Statistics recorded over thirty years time indicate that less than one percent of rapes that are reported turn out to be false accusations. More than 90% of men who are aquitted on a rape charge because a jury fails to believe the victim, will be in court again charged with rape within 7 years. One can only imagine how many unreported rapes happened in the interim. 87% of rapists are successful, thought highly of, and law abiding in every other aspect of their lives. They are all races, all classes, and all ages.


Nope, don't know Kobe personally but he didn't have the bad boy rep most pro sports figures have. And you know, during OJ's trial I was convinced his son had something to do with the murders...

Also, your stats on rape are interesting but it doesn't erase the fact that some women lie, and some would stoop so low as to cry rape when it wasn't so just to get attention and sympathy. Some are simply so selfish that they would sacrafice another's reputation to save their own. I had a friend in college who did that very thing. Got-it-on on a Saturday night, very much anticipated and willingly I might add, with a guy she'd has a crush on for months. However, when morning came and unexpected visitors showed up at her dorm room to find her "with company" she flipped out and accused him of rape so her visitors (family members) wouldn't go back home and tell everyone she was caught in bed with someone. She eventually confessed but that poor boy went through hell and back. It's people like that who should be blamed for others being afraid to report. And people like that are the reason that an alleged rape under questionable circumstances shouldn't automaticly be believed.

[therealbeatlegirl]

I think the text messages are going to be revealing and am surprised they have not previously surfaced. The new revelation of two types of semen found inside the woman's vaginal cavity, if true, may send the case in a whole new direction or bring it to an abrupt halt. If false, defense attorneys are going to be fighting to retain their licenses to practice law. The most compelling facts against Kobe are his 30 second hesitation when asked in a taped police interview if the victim ever said "no," and questionable circumstances with at least 3 other women in the past. I really have to wonder why a man in Kobe's position, with a seemingly perfect life, wife, reputation and public career, would allow himself to be alone in a room with a female stranger. Didn't he ever see 'Fatal Attraction'? Peace, trbg

[Rocky]

I don't see what the big deal is, from the beginning we knew she had been with another man after Kobe, that's why they were fighting to bring up her mental history, no normal woman would get raped and immediate seek another lover to get over it.

any normal man finding out their lover had been raped would be grabbing the shotgun and tracking down the man...

I doubt he even knew she had been with Kobe, and if he did, helped her make a plan to blackmale Kobe...

it backfired when the police became involved and now she is trapped with no where to run.

Lucky she has some redneck cops and judges helping to keep her covered...

were these cops involved in the Ramsey case?

[Babcat]

Jack,

If the girl had never reported the rape by Kobe Bryant then there never would have been a need to "sacrifice his reputation to save hers." If no one had known about the encounter (he certainly wasn't going to tell anyone) then her reputation would never be an issue at all ...at least not as it relates to national media or to Kobe Bryant. In fact, her reputation has been smeared because she came forward.

And I can't imagine ANYONE would be dim enough to believe a girl gets up in the morning with a guy at her place, tells someone she was raped, and people actually believe it! Why would she later need to confess? Who would have been dumb enough to believe it in the first place? Certainly not any policeman. Did she think they would all accept the circumstances as normal... like maybe after her rape she invited the rapist to stay and get some sleep? If her family was that gullible she wouldn't have had to make up a story that involved sex at all. She could have told them he was repairing the toaster so she could have breakfast.

Jayson Williams did not have that bad boy NBA image either. And maybe the shooting of Gus Kristofi was just a freak accident. But that doesn't explain wiping down a gun and attempting to put it in the hands of a man not even dead yet, and still moaning, just to get his prints on it and save your own hiney... (and making this action the priority on the to-do list before calling 911.) And it doesn't explain blowing away your own dog with a shotgun because you lost a bet and believe that loss must be the fault of an animal that couldn't possibly have reasoned such a plan to embarass you.

By all reports Jayson Williams is a good husband, a good father, and a respected community member. He got along well with teammates... he volunteered time for community children... he gave away big bucks to charities... he didn't involve himself in scandals... he had a great sense of humor like the class clown. Yet... somewhere inside him he obviously had a "dark side" (for lack of a better term) that failed to deal with many issues. Unfortunately those issues co-mingled with firearms... something he possessed in obvious excess yet failed to ever respect or handle responsibly, despite having once been charged for a firearm incident. But the most interesting aspect, psychologically, that came out in his trial (just in my opinion of course) was the fact that TWELVE MEN were present in Jayson's home that night and all of them were aware of what had happened... even those that hadn't actually witnessed the shooting. And every single one of them, from his best long term buddies to men who barely knew him, LIED for him in their original statements. They disregarded the legal implications for themselves... even when they had played no role whatsoever in the shooting... to protect Jayson Williams. WHO wields that kind of power, charisma and influence over such a large group of people? Not even the president... I guarantee. But pro athletes do.

Kobe Bryant doesn't carry that bad boy image either. He seemed "squeaky clean" perhaps... but we now know his relatively recent marriage vows... to a gorgeous charming woman... meant very little to him. If this encounter was not a rape, it also wasn't the first of its kind, since at least one other girl has come forward to say he was with her but didn't force himself on her. Being a serial cheater doesn't make one a rapist obviously. But I believe, truly, the problem with pro athletes of high dollar status isn't so much that they have criminal tendencies toward acting foolish with guns or committing rape. I believe they slowly adapt a psyche of total entitlement. No one can tell them what to do and the rules stop applying to them. They can afford any whim and adoring people enforce their belief that they are superior and untouchable. They cannot imagine anyone who would not want to totally submit to their will... just as Jayson Williams had no doubt that all twelve men would lie to protect him, simply because he told them to. They rarely come across a person who sees them as simply another person and holds them to the same standards as any other "average joe". If this girl is telling 100% of the truth... I believe there is a possibility that Kobe Bryant really doesn't see his actions as a rape at all. The sense of entitlement is so strong that he believes he had every right to do just what he felt like doing regardless of whether the girl's intentions ended with some casual kissing. He most likely felt that after the fact she would feel honored to have been "chosen" to make him happy at the moment, and be forever in his debt for the priviledge of knowing him. I'm quite sure he is shocked that a woman who does not feel that way even exists.

[Babcat]

I don't see what the big deal is, from the beginning we knew she had been with another man after Kobe, that's why they were fighting to bring up her mental history, no normal woman would get raped and immediate seek another lover to get over it.

No... they were seeking her medical history (that also includes mental health history) to verify as fact that she has suicide attempts in her past. They originally were given this information by acquaintances of the victim. There may be indications of other mental health issues there as well... such as claims made that she is bi polar or that she suffered depression in the past. But it has nothing to do with whether or not she is a "normal" woman. No one's medical records should ever become fair game for some attorney to dig through attempting to find something to discredit any person who makes a claim of victimization. Are Kobe Bryant's medical records from the past that don't pertain to this incident available for the prosecution to attempt to manipulate? Of course not. If the woman had made a false claim of victimization in the past... that would be relevent. It would also be available through other avenues unrelated to medical records. Women who have fragile psychological make-up are MORE likely to be victimized so what would prior mental health issues prove? It is simply an attempt to smear the victim's character and deflect attention away from the one crime at hand. And who defines normal behavior after a sexual assault?

any normal man finding out their lover had been raped would be grabbing the shotgun and tracking down the man...

The frontier mentality of grabbing a shotgun and going after the guy who just raped "your woman" only happens on television. Any NORMAL man? There is a astronomical amount of reported rapes that occur in the US, and how many cases of gun toting "heros" do we read about? Are 99.9% of husbands and partners of raped women "abnormal" then? That's absurd... especially considering that the man being accused is a pro athlete surrounded by security. Some guy is just going to grab a gun and go defend this girl's honor? What planet do you live on? If you THINK that is how you would react... wait until (God forbid) it happens to your wife or daughter or girlfriend. You will feel just as helpless to do anything but wait on justice as anyone else in that situation. EVERYBODY with testosterone... and some without... rants how they would extract their own justice "if it were them"... mostly because it isn't them. In fact there are very very few cases of vigilante revenge, and none of those ever end up being productive for anybody involved.

I doubt he even knew she had been with Kobe, and if he did, helped her make a plan to blackmale Kobe...

it backfired when the police became involved and now she is trapped with no where to run.

Kobe Bryant never claimed the girl first attempted to blackmail him. In fact he claimed at first he hadn't even had sex with her. (I guess he remembered the DNA issue and thought better of that answer.)

Nobody goes to the police and makes a false sexual assault claim and THEN tries blackmail. :doh: That's ridiculous. The police didn't accidentally become involved... as if she was unwilling to jeopardize her blackmail plan and then "damn those cops for reading her mind and paying her a visit."

Lucky she has some redneck cops and judges helping to keep her covered...

were these cops involved in the Ramsey case?

I'm actually surprised as well, considering the proximity to Boulder, that any police involved knew what to do. My father used to say that even a blind hog finds an acorn once in awhile. :D However, I highly doubt Golden, Colorado can be considered "redneck" since they tend to be environment oriented democrats. And I find it unlikely they are out to lynch the evil NBA star and feel compelled to involve even the judge in their conspiracy of injustice.

[lcookster]

This case is a real lightening rod and a personal one for me. We used to have an area specifically dedicated to this case. I, in fact, shared something very personal that I later thought about with some regret and hesitation. I don't know for certain what happened in that hotel room but my gut tells me that she did begin to resist and that Kobe probably pressed on. I think many of you would be surprised if you knew how many of the women you know have actually been raped and never went forward to authorities. This is absolutely a crime where the victim is shamed and most times looked at with skepticism. Has anyone here read the book by the author who wrote 'The Lovely Bones'? It is her personal account of being raped in college and what it was like to press charges and go to trial. Should be required reading, IMO. And BAbcat, right on girl. L

[therealbeatlegirl]

Hi Lcookster,
I have read both of Alice Sebold's books. I think you meant 'Lucky' should be required reading, this is the book about Sebold's rape. 'Lovely Bones' is about a 14 year old who describes how she was killed and then watched over her family from Heaven. Both excellent books. Peace, trbg

[Jack]

Jack,

If the girl had never reported the rape by Kobe Bryant then there never would have been a need to "sacrifice his reputation to save hers." If no one had known about the encounter (he certainly wasn't going to tell anyone) then her reputation would never be an issue at all ...at least not as it relates to national media or to Kobe Bryant. In fact, her reputation has been smeared because she came forward.

You forget that she was in his room, at a hotel where she worked. People probably noticed that she didn't go out to her car and leave when her shift was over but instead went to a guest's room. If she had run from his room to the safety of her co-workers and had them call police I would have an easier time believing her story. Evidently several of her coworkers saw her and didn't notice anything wrong. Maybe the co-worker (the one she told about the alleged rape and who followed her home that evening) whom she spoke to afterwards made a comment to her about how he disapproved of her being in Kobe's room for whatever reason, or maybe others snickered about why she was still there and reminded her about policy against visiting guest's rooms, that could have been enough to sacrifice Kobe's reputation to save hers. People under pressure do all sorts of irrational things.


And I can't imagine ANYONE would be dim enough to believe a girl gets up in the morning with a guy at her place, tells someone she was raped, and people actually believe it! Why would she later need to confess? Who would have been dumb enough to believe it in the first place? Certainly not any policeman. Did she think they would all accept the circumstances as normal... like maybe after her rape she invited the rapist to stay and get some sleep? If her family was that gullible she wouldn't have had to make up a story that involved sex at all. She could have told them he was repairing the toaster so she could have breakfast.

When the guy left, in a hurry as you might expect, she just immediately started saying that he had forced himself on her and wouldn't leave, and think God they showed up when they did or who knows what else may have happened... She was believed by many, including the police. It was only after the investigator started interviewing the people who were around that night did they realize her story wasn't adding up and confronted her about it. Had she not been confronted she may have never told the truth. Kinda like how if the police hadn't confronted Susan Smith she probably wouldn't have told the truth either about who killed her kids.

Women are just like men, some are good and some are bad. There is reason to believe, from her past actions and her actions immediately after this alleged rape that this woman may not be telling the truth. Since there is a person's reputation and quality of life on the line I believe that any and all information about this woman should be scrutinized and she should be questioned as to her truthfulness. If in the end it appears to a jury that Kobe Bryant committed rape then so be it, but he should have every chance to prove his innocence made available to him. Don't get me wrong, if she had been walking down the street minding her own business and Kobe jumped out and grabbed her I'd be PO'ed that the defence was questioning her motive and her past because it wouldn't be relevant, but since the situation isn't so cut and dry then it has to be handled in a different manner.

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB25K88BVD.html

"The judge in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case on Thursday rejected arguments by the NBA star's attorneys that the state's rape-shield law is unconstitutional.
The rape-shield law, which has withstood other challenges since it was enacted in the mid-1970s, generally bars defense attorneys from using information about the sexual history of alleged assault victims. "

[therealbeatlegirl]

I heard it said on a talk show that people on the West Coast, especially L.A., have a much more supportive attitude towards Kobe than elsewhere. Lakers fans. Actor Jack Nickleson screaming support. I caught the ending of the game before last night and I have to admit I could see why. Kobe was hot, scoring points, and I don't even watch baseball (just kidding, I knew it was a hockey game...). Seriously, when Kobe was interviewed live as he was leaving the court I couldn't help wondering what would happen if the reporter asked him a question about the trial. I just got the feeling it was understood that should never happen. It was all about the game. Kobe was going about his job and the crowd showed wild support, as if nothing pending outside the arena existed. Just an observation I wanted to share. I hope discussions about this case increase as trial nears. I'm at a loss as to why there is so little interest in this particular case on websleuths. Peace, beatlegirl

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBLDNIHLVD.html

" A judge has granted Kobe Bryant's attorneys access to cell phone text messages sent among three people - including the woman accusing the NBA star of rape - in the hours after the alleged attack.
"The materials contain information that is relevant for discovery," state District Judge Terry Ruckriegle said in a decision released Thursday.

He ordered Bryant's defense team and Eagle County prosecutors to keep the messages and an accompanying letter from AT&T Wireless Communications sealed for now. Legal experts said the judge could rule later that the material is not relevant to the case. "

[messiecake]

I had no idea who Kobe was,don't like sports and have a negative attitude towards "professional players" and am ,from personal expirence,very "pro-victim" in rape cases but i have felt from the get go something was "wrong" in this case.Once I found out about the "dirty" underwear and the rape kit showing semen NOT KB's as well as a WHITE mans hair that sealed it (then reading the interviews with her friends telling how she bragged about what shed do with the "settlement money" as well the pics of her drunk in a bar in Canada ,hanging on other guys RIGHT BEFORE trial started was just the "icing on the cake").


I belive Kobe and the "AV" had sex (not rape) and she either felt rejected ,and due to her alleged problems,wanted "revenge" OR this was a plot to get money/attention.


SHAME ON HER! If it is indeed proven shes the liar I think she is (and I think the text messages prove it)I hope she gets charged as she has forever tainted KB,even if she came out and admitted she lied,he will forever have that following him around.



I am very pro-LE and usually fairly pro-Pros. but I think ,unfortunately in this case,they "leaped before looked" in a rush to nab a "celebrity case" and if he wasnt KB no way would they have persued such a shaky case(even the pre-trial judge felt there wasnt enough evidence!) and they too need to be admonished for wasting time and tax payers money (as the STATE paid for the AV's drug rehab etc in addition to the $$ its costing to put this sham case on).

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB103LPMVD.html

"Prosecutors have abandoned their bid to retest DNA evidence in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case, accusing the NBA star's defense team of wasting so much time that to start testing now would delay the trial.
In a court filing made public Friday, District Attorney Mark Hurlbert said the results would be irrelevant anyway.

Details of what was to be tested have not been publicly disclosed"

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB6FV9VQVD.html

"His season over, Kobe Bryant returned to court Monday for a two-day hearing that began with sharp arguments over how to guide the jury in determining whether the NBA star is guilty of rape.
Bryant's defense team wants the judge to tell jurors they must acquit the Los Angeles Lakers star if they determine his alleged victim consented to sex.

In essence, defense attorney Hall Haddon said, prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the woman did not consent to sex and that Bryant knew it.

Prosecutors say they must prove only that the sex was "against the alleged victim's will," an element that answers the consent issue. "

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB2NT8WRVD.html

A two-day pretrial hearing was scheduled to resume Tuesday, with witness testimony and arguments over a defense motion to have the woman's sex life in the days surrounding her encounter with Bryant admitted as evidence.

During Monday's hearing, the sides exchanged sharp arguments over how to instruct the jurors who will decide whether the Los Angeles Lakers guard is guilty of sexual assault.

The issue of consent has emerged as a key battleground

[lcookster]

I had read some stuff very early on where she was heard telling people at a party about having sex with Kobe. Where did you hear she was talking about settlement money? Because from what I understand she isn't looking for settlement $$$. Also, I didn't see any pics of her drunk in Canada but that wouldn't mean she hasn't been a rape victim. This is a very complicated case. I am looking forward to more information. I am also very interested in the cell phone text messages. If she was text messaging her former boyfriend about the encounter in order to elicit jealousy, that would make me very concerned about credibility. If such a thing is possible, I think this may be one of those real 'gray area' encounters. Wish we had more discussion on this case as I think it is a very interesting one.

[messiecake]

I had read some stuff very early on where she was heard telling people at a party about having sex with Kobe. Where did you hear she was talking about settlement money? Because from what I understand she isn't looking for settlement $$$. Also, I didn't see any pics of her drunk in Canada but that wouldn't mean she hasn't been a rape victim. This is a very complicated case. I am looking forward to more information. I am also very interested in the cell phone text messages. If she was text messaging her former boyfriend about the encounter in order to elicit jealousy, that would make me very concerned about credibility. If such a thing is possible, I think this may be one of those real 'gray area' encounters. Wish we had more discussion on this case as I think it is a very interesting one.


Maxim magazine had the article that interviewed three of her friends (one of them being her roommate who was also there for one of her attemped sucides).Maxim also talked about the Canadian pictures and the NE ran them.
I can link you to the Maxim article (I actually bought the issue but I saw the online copy through the CTV Kobe board).I've been following this case closely as it hits me personally(Im a rape survivor) but I just don't "buy" the AV's story and I really think the text messages are going to seal it.
The Pre-liem judge said the Pro's evidence was shaky at best and I agree.........they saw a "Hollywood case" and ran with it before really looking at the AV OR doing correct police work(they didnt collect or test the chair,the carpet,towels etc and now all the evidence is long gone since the hotel remodeled)Not to mention they sent the AV to rehab on the taxpayer's dime.
The image I have of the AV is similar to other women Ive known who have also (falsely)cried rape and everytime someone makes a false accusation its a slap in the face to real victims.

[Newswolf]

Messiecake, I'm truly sorry about what happened to you.

http://pm.gazette.com/fullstory.php?id=2735

"EAGLE - Attorneys wrapped up arguments Tuesday on whether the sex life of the woman accusing NBA star Kobe Bryant of rape can be used against her at trial, ending weeks of closed-door legal wrangling.

The details could be significant if they are admitted as evidence, but more written arguments are due next week. That means state District Judge Terry Ruckriegle won't make his decision until next month.

Bryant left Colorado after a two-day hearing without learning his trial date. Attorneys said they could be ready for trial by late August."

[lcookster]

HI Messiecake- Thanks for your reply. Yes, I would love the link to that Maxim article. I too am interested in this case for the same reason as you. I haven't talked to any women who have falsely claimed rape but I have talked to many who let them go unreported out of shame or fear. I agree that if this is a false claim she has done a tremendous disservice to women everywhere. We used to have a dedicated Kobe forum on this board but it got lost somewhere in the transition.....L

[messiecake]

HI Messiecake- Thanks for your reply. Yes, I would love the link to that Maxim article. I too am interested in this case for the same reason as you. I haven't talked to any women who have falsely claimed rape but I have talked to many who let them go unreported out of shame or fear. I agree that if this is a false claim she has done a tremendous disservice to women everywhere. We used to have a dedicated Kobe forum on this board but it got lost somewhere in the transition.....L

Hello!!
Heres the article.I will try to find the NE article as well (say what you want about the tabs but with alot of things,like the Laci case,theyve been dead on)

http://www.dont-tel.com/sports/articles/article_5775.html



I unfortunately know alot of women too (myself included) who delayed reporting or just never reported but I also know of two women who lied about being raped (one lied because she cheated on her b/f,the other was just a psycho) .
I wish we did have a Kobe forum as also this case is making some interseting legal history it seems as well.

[lcookster]

I never reported- and my situation involved a professional athlete. So perhaps that explains my original bias against Kobe. I think for many (and I shouldn't over-generalize) there is a serious entitlement and ego thing for a lot of these athletes. IN my case he was the friend of a trusted friend of mine who offered me a ride home after a get together. Once at my apartment door 'no' and trying to struggle away wasn't working. At 5'2" I was no match for a pro football player. I was 19 at the time and this guy was extremely well known in my college town, where he had once been the star football player prior to going pro. Enormously difficult and upsetting- when I tried to talk to a couple of people about what to do it was clear that they thought the incident should be swept under the rug. The trusted mutual friend told me it was all just part of 'growing up.' If this had been a stranger in an alley it would have been easier for people to understand it was a rape. It wasn't until my 30's that I could start talking to my close circle about what had happened. I still have never told my parents or my brother. I still look back, at the age of 44, with shame and regret about not going forward. But in those days there was even more doubt placed on the victim and noone around me supported it. And coming from a strict family I also placed blame on myself, ie I never should have accepted the ride home etc.. Worked this stuff out in therapy but it will always be a raw nerve. Hope this wasn't too much information to share but I think readers would be shocked at the number of women who have been in this situation. So I will watch this unfold and try to seperate myself in terms of too much 'projection.' I am eager to see all the evidence and especially those text messages.

[messiecake]

[QUOTE=lcookster]I never reported QUOTE]


I never reported to L/E either.Long after the fact my family consulted an attorney but we were told since I waited so long coupled with no evidence (other than my word) that it wouldn't go anywhere and if anything Id get dragged through the mud (instead of getting him charged with "actual" rape we also thought about statuatory rape,I was 14 he was 19,but again its my word against his).It didn't help that after raping me he went and "bragged" about having sex with me so when I did reveal to a few people what happened they too had trouble beliving it was rape (My rapist was someone who had dated my sister and we all had mutual friends) and to be honest,my parents were very nonsupportive as well(I had no counseling until I initiated it on my own as an adult)and I too was doubted by even close friends as they too thought rape meant a dirty,stranger forcing you at knifepoint into a dark alley and had trouble beliving that this friendly,good looking guy who was well known because he played in a local band forced me to have sex with him in his car when he supposed to be driving me home(I wont go into details but he knew I did NOT want to have sex with him-he knew I was a virgin-and he actually apologised after the fact which just added to the trauma).I have reason to belive I was not his only victim but he has never been reported for rape.


I regret that although I was terribly young,I had been smarter and stronger and either fought OR promptly reported him but I was ashamed/embarassed and felt that I would be called a liar(which I was) but Ive worked alot of this out in therapy and am working with others who have had similar expirences (I know "date rape" is underreported but I think its even more rampant than we know..........they say 1 out of 3 but I think its more like 2 out of 3 )


Thank you for sharing your story L!!!!! You are not alone!

[snorky]

[QUOTE=lcookster]I never reported QUOTE]

....they say 1 out of 3 but I think its more like 2 out of 3 )

Thank you for sharing your story L!!!!! You are not alone!
No, not alone. It's a shame, and thanks for sharing your stories. I probably would have been able to avoid it happening to me but was given the date rape drug by an ex-boyfriend. Terrible experience and it took a while to remember what led up to what was going on. I woke up in the middle of it but quickly passed out again until morning. I didn't report it because I had dated him in the past. I told many of our mutual friends especially the girls, but never went to LE. What a low scumball he is. How would these guys like getting it in ways they don't agree to. I just don't see how they can enjoy hurting someone. :confused:

[peggy]

Judge just set Aug 27 as trial date for Kobe - both prosecution and defense said they would be ready, so finally...

[Newswolf]

Here's a bit more on what Peggy posted

http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/8760600p-9640424c.html

The trial is expected to take three to four weeks, including the process of questioning and choosing jurors.

In an order Friday, state District Judge Terry Ruckriegle also denied a request by both sides to include a preliminary questionnaire when jury summonses are mailed to Eagle County residents randomly selected by computer.

[peggy]

Seems 3-4 weeks for trial, including jury selection, is very optimisic - media will be all over Eagle, wonder if they are prepared for it, one paper, Rocky Mountain News I think, predicted he will be acquitted due to little evidence. But,,, I think it will come down to a she said, he said thing--if she testifies and he doesn't, well, anyone's guess who the jury believes

[snorky]

Regardless of my past experience on this subject, I can honestly say that I have an open mind. I really do want to know about the text messages, and question her activities after the 'assault'. I am still on the fence on this one, but hope that the truth will surface.

[peggy]

Regardless of my past experience on this subject, I can honestly say that I have an open mind. I really do want to know about the text messages, and question her activities after the 'assault'. I am still on the fence on this one, but hope that the truth will surface.

Think I could have an open mind too on jury, even though I personally don't care for Kobe--seems so arrogant(speaking of baskeball here--demanding coach be fired, which he was, wanting to select next one, etc.) but anxious also to hear about text messages and hear accusor's testimony, that should be very telling, and would hope Kobe would testify - anyone think that is likely?

[messiecake]

Think I could have an open mind too on jury, even though I personally don't care for Kobe--seems so arrogant(speaking of baskeball here--demanding coach be fired, which he was, wanting to select next one, etc.) but anxious also to hear about text messages and hear accusor's testimony, that should be very telling, and would hope Kobe would testify - anyone think that is likely?


I usually say that the defendant wont take the stand but I feel w/ Kobe its highly likely because the Pros are going to play his taped convo w/ LE and he'll need to counteract that.

[snorky]

I usually say that the defendant wont take the stand but I feel w/ Kobe its highly likely because the Pros are going to play his taped convo w/ LE and he'll need to counteract that.
Good point, Messiecake. I think also, he is used to performing and speaking in public and that he wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to persuade a jury. He knows that he has many fans, and perhaps some on the jury?

[joanie10]

I posted in the original thread about Kobe Bryant. I have been catching up with all you have been saying.

I am a basketball fan. Though I haven't been following the games as much as I used to; I have been following the KB case.

In the beginning I suspected that KB would be found guilty. Even though rape seemed very out of character for the man. One never knows for sure about these things. Then as time went on I changed my mind. Presently I do not believe that KB raped this young lady. Like I said it is very out of character from what I have observed of Kobe.

So far, I suspect that this young lady was put up to this by somebody. I wonder if she thought it might all be settled out of court and she would get a nice sum of money to shut up. She certainly does not seem to have a very good reputation. (Which does not mean it is okay to rape her. It certainly is not.)

Everybody sees things differently. That is why I like these forums so much. I never perceived Kobe as arrogant. Then again, I suppose, one has to have some arrogance to get to the top of any sport. One has to believe in themselves. I also was under the impression that Coach Jackson was leaving the Lakers because his 5 year contract is up. I also heard somewhere the Kobe is considering leaving the Lakers too.


As it stands right now, with me, I think Kobe is innocent of the charges. Then that could change with time.

There is evidence that there was DNA from other men on her and/or her clothes. The shirt with the blood was found in the bathroom; the blood was on the inside of the shirt. Does it not seem odd that she would pick a shirt up off the bathroom floor to wipe blood off of her when there are towels? Has it said whether or not there was seman in the blood on the shirt? She waited so long before reporting the rape. That seemed odd to me. Then rape is traumatic and maybe a friend told her she should. It is said she went back to work after and that no coworkers saw anything different about her. It seems to me that she would have shown some sign of a problem.

As evidence is presented I could change my mind. If he is guilty of rape I think he should be punished accordingly. Celebrity does not give people the right to do wrong.

This is going to be even more interesting as time goes on.

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBO0ER41WD.html

"Media organizations that were accidentally sent transcripts of a closed-door hearing in the Kobe Bryant case asked the Colorado Supreme Court on Monday to overturn a judge's order threatening them with contempt of court if they publish or even retain the information.
A court reporter who meant to send transcripts of the June 21-22 hearing to the judge instead e-mailed them Thursday to seven media groups, including The Associated Press. State District Judge Terry Ruckriegle then ordered those groups to destroy their copies without publishing them. "

http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/8773799p-9654529c.html

"The attorney for a witness in the Kobe Bryant case asked the judge to order the return of all but one of the cell phone text messages his client sent and received after the NBA star allegedly assaulted a resort worker.
Only the one message, sent to Bryant's accuser about 16 hours after the alleged attack, might be relevant to the case

[messiecake]

Something interesting I heard on FoxNews............Mr.Herr,the AV's ex boyfriend who refused a defense requested DNA test and is a party involved in the text messages recently hired a criminal attorney to represent his "interests" in the case............why would he need a criminal lawyer????

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB2ERQA2WD.html

The Colorado Supreme Court stepped into a First Amendment battle in the Kobe Bryant case Tuesday, ordering the trial judge to justify his threat to hold media organizations in contempt if they publish transcripts from a closed-door hearing.
The transcripts were accidentally sent to seven media organizations last week. Responding to a request from media attorneys, the Supreme Court gave District Judge Terry Ruckriegle until Friday to explain why it should not overturn his order prohibiting dissemination of the information.

Justices also said they would consider arguments from prosecutors, Bryant's lawyers and an attorney for the accuser.

[peggy]

hmmmm....hope all these arguments being made to higher court won't delay the trial - wonder what they are.

[Pepper]

Being a woman myself though I can tell you that if I had been raped, or even in a situation that was consentual but just hurt me, I would not be running out and having relations with anyone else right away. That's what gets me. If it is proven that she did sleep with one or more men within hours of allegedly being raped then there is no way that I could even consider her rape allegation as being true if I were a juror.
I agree with you, if the sex she had with others was AFTER the alleged rape. How many times she had sex with one or more partners PRIOR to the encounter with Kobe should have absolutely no bearing on this case. If the encounter with Kobe was rough, and he was unusually large, it is easy to understand how tearing and bleeding could occur. I can also imagine her asking him to stop once it became painful. However I can't imagine that once she was vaginally injured she would want sex with anyone else for at least several days. So, if she did have sex within a day or two after the alleged rape, then I could not vote guilty.

[peggy]

Don't you think the DA/prosecutor is aware of her sexual history, prior and afterwards, and the effect this might have on a jury - that is what bothers me-- seems like he would drop the charges if he thought it would, but he hasn't and seemed so confident when he announced he was filing charges against him last year that he had a solid case - really interested in seeing how all this comes out at the trial

[messiecake]

Don't you think the DA/prosecutor is aware of her sexual history, prior and afterwards, and the effect this might have on a jury - that is what bothers me-- seems like he would drop the charges if he thought it would, but he hasn't and seemed so confident when he announced he was filing charges against him last year that he had a solid case - really interested in seeing how all this comes out at the trial


Ive said before they saw a "hollywood case" and ran with it despite what seems to be very flimsy evidence.
Their first warning shouldve have been her story changing but if that wasnt enough what about when the rape kit results came back showing semen NOT Kobe's???or the lack of positive post rape witnesses OR the fact the DA used money from the Victim Compensation Fund to send her to rehab(although less than a month after rehab she has been reported to have been drinking)..........The Pre-Liem. judge didnt think they had enough but at this point the DA is at the point of no return so theyre going to trudge forward despite the very high,very real risk of losing and looking like fools if it comes out that the AV lied.

[peggy]

.
The Pre-Liem. judge didnt think they had enough but at this point the DA is at the point of no return so theyre going to trudge forward despite the very high,very real risk of losing and looking like fools if it comes out that the AV lied.

You may have something there about risks - Hurlbert just announced he won't be directly involved in trial - only in supervisory capacity

Pulling Out (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=5&u=/ap/20040630/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_bryant_case)

[messiecake]

I think the AV is going to get slaughtered on cross examination.I belive Kobe's defense (with more money and resources than the state)has more info on AV than the DA has any inkling of and will just hammer her.Kobe will then walk and the State will have ALOT of explaining to do in regards to how theyre spending the taxpayers money (I really take issue with them paying for the AV to go to rehab!!! That is NOT what the victims compensation fund is for!!!!!!).


Hurlbert knows the ship is sinking (and his career which he thought would soar with this big case)is going with it................

[peggy]

Well, whether she gets slaughtered on cross will depend I guess on what the judge allows the defense to ask, i.e., sexual history, etc. I don't think that has been fully determined yet, but maybe it has--this case, unfortunately, isn't getting much publicity in my area, but that is probably because I'm in "Laker" country. BTW, what was she in rehab for, was it related to this incident?
(Oh, one thing I feel "pretty sure" about is Vanessa will soon depart, more quickly if he is convicted. Either way she will go away with a truckload of money--he should have taken prior advice to get a pre-nup agreement)

[marine]

(Oh, one thing I feel "pretty sure" about is Vanessa will soon depart, more quickly if he is convicted. Either way she will go away with a truckload of money--he should have taken prior advice to get a pre-nup agreement)

I agree. She is on her way out. I heard on the radio a couple of weeks ago that she was seen leaving the office of a very prominent divorce attorney. I don't blame her. While I happen to think he did not rape the AV, either way he cheated on his wife. And infidelity is not something I personally would tolerate. :snooty:

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBB8QFT6WD.html

Citing Kobe Bryant's right to a fair trial as well as privacy concerns for his alleged victim, the judge in the NBA star's sexual assault case urged the Colorado Supreme Court on Friday to back up his order barring the news media from publishing details from a closed-door hearing.
"While it is true that the (news media's) First Amendment freedoms are extraordinarily powerful, they must not be permitted to overcome these most fundamental of personal rights," District Judge Terry Ruckriegle's attorneys wrote in the court filing.

The high court had asked Ruckriegle to justify his threat to hold media organizations in contempt if they publish details from a transcript accidentally sent to seven media organizations last week.

The transcripts deal with attempts by Bryant's attorneys to introduce information about the accuser's sex life and about money she has received under a state victims' compensation program.

[Newswolf]

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/26931.htm

Kobe Bryant, the prosecutors who want him jailed, and his young accuser finally agree on something — they all want TV cameras kept out of the L.A. Laker star's sexual-assault trial. "

[peggy]

DENVER - The attorney for the woman accusing NBA star Kobe Bryant of rape has asked a judge to stop posting court filings online, saying inadvertent leaks have put the woman's safety at risk

link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=5&u=/ap/20040713/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_bryant_case)

Thought L. Wood was now her lawyer?

[messiecake]

DENVER - The attorney for the woman accusing NBA star Kobe Bryant of rape has asked a judge to stop posting court filings online, saying inadvertent leaks have put the woman's safety at risk

link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=5&u=/ap/20040713/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_bryant_case)

Thought L. Wood was now her lawyer?



Maybe Lin figured out shes a liar and there wont be a payday for him??
:confused:


One can only hope! :D

[peggy]

Maybe Lin figured out shes a liar and there wont be a payday for him??
:confused:


One can only hope! :D

Just thinking, trial (Aug 27?) will be just about same time as republican convention, anyway trial won't be televised so guess it doesn't make much difference. Would really like to at least hear what accuser has to say on stand, and maybe Kobe? Jerry Buss is betting all his nickels (or millions) on Kobe being acquited - Shaq gone, new coach, etc - if he is convicted, or he decides to go to Clippers, poor Buss - who knows what a jury will do?

[Chapita4]

I wonder if this gal has really thought about what she will go through if Kobe is found innocent? She will be eaten alive, burned at the stake......

Kobe has some kick butt attorney's that will aggressively defend him.

If she is bipolar she could like the drama of this trial, the high from this may out weigh common sense. Jeez, how terrible this thing could get.

It is my opinion that she has already been eaten alive and burned at the stake... the victim has been on trial since she asked for help by going to the police.
Someone else made the point that "rape doesn't seem to be his nature but lying seems to be in hers". Personally I don't know why any woman comes forward to report that she has been a victim of a sexual crime because more often than not she has to defend her innocence.
Sophisticated womanizers and those who cross the line into rape know how to pick women who make perfect victims - those who drink, use drugs, have mental illness and other "credibility" issues.

I do have to say that I believe the prosecution has more than a he said/she said case or they probably wouldn't have filed the case.
Most of societies terrible crimes are commited in private with no witnesses.
Just my private rant!

[Newswolf]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5439749

'The judge in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case on Wednesday barred evidence from a medical exam performed on the NBA star, saying investigators didn’t have the proper court order to take him to the hospital in the middle of the night."

[peggy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5439749

'The judge in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case on Wednesday barred evidence from a medical exam performed on the NBA star, saying investigators didn’t have the proper court order to take him to the hospital in the middle of the night."

Yes, but judge did admit his interview and shirt with blood on it, didn't he - so win for both defense and pros

[Newswolf]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBXIT3KTWD.html

"With less than six weeks before jury selection begins in Kobe Bryant's sexual assault trial, only one major question remains for the judge to answer: whether the alleged victim's sex life can be used against her. "

[peggy]

I hope it isn't allowed - actually thought there was CO law that prevented it anyway, rape shield? Either way he rules, expect appeals from one side.

[peggy]

Kobe back in Colorado this morning for closed door hearings - one on whether to allow live cameras for trial (sure that will be a big no) and allowing text messages

[Newswolf]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_BRYANT_CASE_MEDIA?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

The Colorado Supreme Court ruled Monday the media have no right to publish mistakenly released details from a closed-door hearing in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case.

[Newswolf]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_BRYANT_CASE?SITE=MSJAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

The attorney for the woman accusing NBA star Kobe Bryant of rape on Monday urged the judge to stop posting court documents on the Web, saying she and her family are concerned about her safety.

In the first of three hearings scheduled before the Aug. 27 trial, attorney John Clune said mistakes by court staff have put his client in danger. He cited the inadvertent posting of her name in an online document earlier this year and the accidental e-mail of closed-door hearing details to a handful of news organizations last month.

The gaffes have destroyed the faith the woman and her parents had in the justice system, Clune said.........."

[Newswolf]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040723/us_nm/nba_crime_bryant_dc_6

Key evidence about the sexual activity of a Colorado woman who accuses basketball star Kobe Bryant (news) of raping her will be admitted at his upcoming trial, a judge ruled on Friday, handing a big victory to his defense

The evidence to be admitted at trial concerns any sexual relations the then-19-year-old woman had two days before and hours after she said she was raped at a Colorado spa"

I wonder what this ruling does to the case?

[snorky]

I think it's a big win for Kobe for sure! Her activities will 'taint' the jury I suspect...

[Pepper]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040723/us_nm/nba_crime_bryant_dc_6

Key evidence about the sexual activity of a Colorado woman who accuses basketball star Kobe Bryant (news) of raping her will be admitted at his upcoming trial, a judge ruled on Friday, handing a big victory to his defense

The evidence to be admitted at trial concerns any sexual relations the then-19-year-old woman had two days before and hours after she said she was raped at a Colorado spa"

I wonder what this ruling does to the case?
I totally disagree with this judge's ruling. If he is admitting the sexual activities of this girl 72 hrs. before her encounter with Kobe, then they should line up all those partners along with Kobe, strip them naked and measure their male parts! If defense is saying these other partners could have caused her injuries, then it seems to me that their respective size may matter!

However, I do agree that her sexual activity in the hours after this alleged rape do matter. If she were injured by Kobe, then I find it very unlikely that she would want sex while still injured.

[messiecake]

I agree with you Pepper..............BEFORE Kobe is irrelevant but AFTER is.

It doesnt matter if she had sex with 100 drunk sailors that night as long as it was before K.B.
Im really surprised at the Judge's ruling(I was pretty confident her behavior AFTER would be asmissable because he allowed in the text messages etc) but Im surprised at her prior "acts"(even if it is only for 48 hours beforehand) being allowed as evidence.
I hope this doesnt set a precedent for other cases!!!!!!!!

[peggy]

I agree with you Pepper..............BEFORE Kobe is irrelevant but AFTER is.

It doesnt matter if she had sex with 100 drunk sailors that night as long as it was before K.B.
Im really surprised at the Judge's ruling(I was pretty confident her behavior AFTER would be asmissable because he allowed in the text messages etc) but Im surprised at her prior "acts"(even if it is only for 48 hours beforehand) being allowed as evidence.
I hope this doesnt set a precedent for other cases!!!!!!!!
From what Dan Abrams said this morning, the 72 hrs prior to incident relates to her credibility--apparently she was asked last time she had sex before and she said several days or something, meaning that if they show she did during those 72 hours, would show she was lying

[peggy]

I agree with you Pepper..............BEFORE Kobe is irrelevant but AFTER is.

It doesnt matter if she had sex with 100 drunk sailors that night as long as it was before K.B.
Im really surprised at the Judge's ruling(I was pretty confident her behavior AFTER would be asmissable because he allowed in the text messages etc) but Im surprised at her prior "acts"(even if it is only for 48 hours beforehand) being allowed as evidence.
I hope this doesnt set a precedent for other cases!!!!!!!!
From what Dan Abrams said this morning, the hours before incident is to verify her credibility--apparently she said she did not have sex within so many days before, and if they can show she did, then she lied

[messiecake]

Shes lied about ALOT!!!!!!


I totally forgot about her story that she had only had sex,with a condom,a few days(a week?) prior!!! Then that TOTALLY should be admissable!!!!!!!!!!!


With all this being allowed in the Pros dont have a chance in hell of winning,imo,at best theyre looking at a hung jury.

[peggy]

Shes lied about ALOT!!!!!!


I totally forgot about her story that she had only had sex,with a condom,a few days(a week?) prior!!! Then that TOTALLY should be admissable!!!!!!!!!!!


With all this being allowed in the Pros dont have a chance in hell of winning,imo,at best theyre looking at a hung jury.

Well, unless it comes down to her word against apparent witnesses who will say otherwise (sure they must have some or judge wouldn't have allowed pre-sex info to be allowed) - then who will jury believe. If she lied, then think she did also with prosecutor who said they were confident she was telling the truth about her sexual behavior prior to the incident. Just wish this was going to be televised - what did the judge rule on cameras in courtroom - no, I guess, but hadn't heard for sure.

[Levi]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kobe_Bryant_Innocent_or_guilty/

[peggy]

What?? documents revealing accusor's identity accidentally released again, third time I believe. Either judge's helpers are the most inept in history, or these are not "accidental" disclosures - I tend to think the latter.

[SoloFlyer]

What?? documents revealing accusor's identity accidentally released again, third time I believe. Either judge's helpers are the most inept in history, or these are not "accidental" disclosures - I tend to think the latter.


This judge have proven his bias and incompetance in this case over and over. He is useless and if not a rapist himeself he is certainly an apologist. He should be removed not only from the case but from practicing law in any way shape or form/

[SoloFlyer]

From what Dan Abrams said this morning, the hours before incident is to verify her credibility--apparently she said she did not have sex within so many days before, and if they can show she did, then she lied


It is OK to lie just ask Mr Clinton, Scott Peterson or any variety of their defenders. :doh:

But then again this is all heresay, probably promoted by the kobe spin team which should be renamed the "let's rape her again team".

[therealbeatlegirl]

Has anyone read "I Am the Central Park Jogger"? In this book by Trisha Meili it came out at trial that evidence of her boyfriend's semen was found during her rape exam after the attack on her in Central Park. She had not had sex with her boyfriend for 3 days prior to the attack, what she had done was worn jogging pants that had been laundered, but still contained traces of her boyfriend's semen. Think about it. Kobe is tested and evidence of only he and the AV is found. The AV is tested and traces of another man's semen is found - wasn't there a story about her putting on unlaundered panties? Which could be where the semen came from. The semen evidence from the boyfriend of the victim in the Central Park case was admitted in Court as having been transferred from the jogging pants.

What really disgusts me about this case is that Kobe had unprotected sex with the AV, a complete stranger, and then went home to his wife and, quite possibly before the story came out, risked exposing his wife to whatever he could have picked up from a stranger. At the very least, a yeast or bacteria infection. Not that there is any evidence of it, but he potentially could have exposed his innocent wife to herpes, an STD or AIDS. I'm just trying to make the point that I find his behavior in the regard so disgusting.

Peace, beatlegirl

[Newswolf]

Beatlegirl, I have not read that book but if this is correct (see below) I do not believe the pros. has a chance. I don't believe any rape victim would have sex again that soon.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040803/ts_nm/nba_crime_bryant_dc_7

"Key DNA evidence shows that the 20-year-old woman who accuses Kobe Bryant (news) of rape had sex with another man in the hours after her encounter with the Los Angeles Lakers star, a defense expert has testified. "

This def. expert says transfer couldn't account for all the evidence.

[peggy]

can't remember where I read this, but the prosecution is bringing high-powered expert from NY who will testify that transfer is possible, so battle of experts coming on I guess..

[peggy]

oh, oh . . new witness, from FL, I think who will testify that she had non-consentual sex with Kobe - defense said they were going to put Kobe on stand, but maybe not now, then something about Shaq may be witness?? All this from local TV news this evening...

[snorky]

oh, oh . . new witness, from FL, I think who will testify that she had non-consentual sex with Kobe - defense said they were going to put Kobe on stand, but maybe not now, then something about Shaq may be witness?? All this from local TV news this evening...
I don't have a link, just heard on the radio that this women was at a Laker's dinner party hosted by Shaq in his home. Kobe had asked her to bring a drink to him outside, and when she did, he cornered her and grabbed her 'private parts'. She then called her Mother from Shaq's home. That's all I heard.....:waitasec:

[Newswolf]

I heard that too, Sports Illustrated is the source for the new witness.

[peggy]

Seems odd that Sports Illustrated is source of this - how do they know what prosecution going to do, and how did they arrange interview with the witness - my first thought was through some sports figure....whatever, interesting how this all plays out--saw some replays of Kobe's first "confessional" press conference, remembered then when I saw him looked guilty as sin -

[Newswolf]

Here's the link for the SI story

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/magazine/08/03/scorecard0809/index.html

~~~~~~~~~
SI has learned that prosecutors plan to subpoena a 22-year-old Florida waitress who claims she was the object of unwanted sexual advances by Bryant. Prosecutors have notified Bryant's lawyers that the woman may be called as a witness at the trial, set to begin on Aug. 27 in Eagle, Colo. Her testimony might be used by the prosecution to show that aggressive sexual actions are part of Bryant's pattern of behavior. (Pamela Mackey, Bryant's lead attorney, did not respond to SI's efforts to reach her.)
~~~~~~~~~~~

[Newswolf]

Case may be going up in smoke

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/US/Kobe_Bryant_Alleged_Victim_040804-1.html

“Lawyers for the alleged sexual assault victim of Kobe Bryant say she may have to reconsider testifying against the NBA star at the criminal trial, in the wake of a series of damaging court mistakes that led to her name repeatedly being made public, along with allegations about her sexual history. “

Lawyer said she may be better off going for a civil suit against him now.

[Casshew]

If the case does collapse it is going to be blamed on the Judge for lifting the rape shield law on the accuser.

[messiecake]

She doesnt have a prayer in hell of winning a civ. suit because ,as we learned from OJ,evidence not allowed into criminal trials is admissinable in a civ. proceeding and it works both ways...........Mackey would clobber her on the stand(which in a civ. case shed have to take).

I also dont buy this waitress SI drug up either.

[peggy]

Here is another link I found, referring to possible deal in the works..

deal? (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mymod/hdln/rs/sty/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=577&e=2&u=/nm/20040804/sp_nm/nba_crime_bryant_dc)

[peggy]

DENVER - The 20-year-old woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape filed a federal lawsuit against the NBA star Tuesday, seeking unspecified damages for pain, suffering and "public scorn, hatred and ridicule" she has suffered as a result of the alleged attack.

The attorneys asked for a jury trial and compensatory damages of at least $75,000, with punitive damages to be determined later. The woman was identified only as Jane Doe.

link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20040810/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_bryant_case_11)

[debbywitt]

http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/08-04/motionforcontinuance.pdf

[Jack]

I read this article in the New York Post, and visited the site it reffered to. Read the redacted version of the behind closed doors testimony about the dna testing, which was evidently sent out to the media recently. It is now my opinion, based upon what is in that transcript, that this woman was not raped. Sorry if it upsets anyone, but things are not as they appear to be...


Before anyone asks, I'm not going to post any links. There's a lot of inflammatory stuff on the site that I do not want to appear to promote. If you want to see the article, it's in the Online version of the NYP, you'll know it when you see it.

[peggy]

Father of accuser writes letter to Vail Daily complaining about judge. Whether anyone thinks she is lying or not about the rape allegations, fact that all leaks to press and posting of defense expert witness conclusions on web sites prior to the criminal trial are inexcusable to me. Link to his letter..

letter (http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040811/NEWS/40811009)

[messiecake]

I read this article in the New York Post, and visited the site it reffered to. Read the redacted version of the behind closed doors testimony about the dna testing, which was evidently sent out to the media recently. It is now my opinion, based upon what is in that transcript, that this woman was not raped. Sorry if it upsets anyone, but things are not as they appear to be...


Before anyone asks, I'm not going to post any links. There's a lot of inflammatory stuff on the site that I do not want to appear to promote. If you want to see the article, it's in the Online version of the NYP, you'll know it when you see it.


I agree 100% Jack and as a victim advocate and a victim myself I am FURIOUS with the "complaining witness" and the damage she has done to REAL victims and future court cases (I am also angry with the LE and the DA there for doing such a shoddy job and only thinking of their careers and not justice).

I cannot wait for this farce of a civ. trial to get underway and the truth can come out (I read through the DNA evidence as Ive been closely following this case and there was no rape-period.) :furious:

[Seeker]

truth? (http://www.s5000.com/what_the_huck/495/bryant_faber.php)

more info (http://www.fratpack.com/)

[peggy]

Judge denies prosecution request for delay in criminal trial.

In another development, Judge Matsch,who presided over Oklahoma City bombing case, appointed judge for civil case.

[Levi]

EAGLE, Colo. (AP) -- Kobe Bryant has one more date in court before jury selection begins in his sexual assault trial. Some are wondering if it will be the last time he steps into a criminal courtroom.

With the trial less than two weeks away, speculation is mounting that prosecutors are looking for a way to dismiss the charge after suffering a series of setbacks.
"We have too many things happening in this case that we just don't normally have," said Larry Pozner, former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. "The big picture? None of this bodes well for the prosecution."

People connected with the case are barred from commenting in detail, but district attorney's spokeswoman Krista Flannigan has said prosecutors still plan to try Bryant, who acknowledges having sex with a then 19-year-old hotel employee last summer but insists she consented.

During a closed-court hearing Monday, prosecutors were scheduled to ask District Judge Terry Ruckriegle to reconsider his decision allowing the defense to tell jurors about money the alleged victim received from a victims compensation fund.

The defense has indicated it plans to tell jurors that the woman was given nearly $20,000, far more than usual, for mental health care and other services. Details of their argument were filed under seal.

The judge's decision could bolster the defense's efforts to undermine the alleged victim's credibility. Defense attorney Pamela Mackey said in a filing the woman's decision to sue Bryant last week in federal civil court had the effect of "exposing her motivation to pursue her false accusation -- the hope of a large monetary award."

Among the recent setbacks for prosecutors:

--In late July, Ruckriegle lost a battle with media attorneys and was forced to release transcripts of a closed-door hearing that prosecutors called "extremely harmful" to their case. The transcripts had mistakenly been e-mailed to a handful of media organizations.

In the transcripts, a defense expert witness explained why she believed DNA evidence indicated the alleged victim had sex with another man after her encounter with Bryant but before her hospital exam the following day. The defense has suggested it would make that argument to undermine the accuser's credibility.

The woman's attorney denied the claim, but prosecutors said release of the transcript threw into question whether a fair jury could be seated.

--Soon after the transcript was released, the accuser's attorneys, John Clune and Lin Wood, appeared on national television to criticize courthouse blunders that they said damaged their client's faith in the justice system. They questioned whether the mistakes -- the e-mailing of the transcripts in June to several news organizations, and the posting of the alleged victim's name on a state court Web site -- would prevent a fair hearing of their clients' accusation.

--Last week, the woman's lawyers filed a civil suit against Bryant in federal court, seeking unspecified monetary damages. Bryant attorney Pamela Mackey said in a court filing that the lawsuit had the effect of "exposing her motivation to pursue her false accusation -- the hope of a large monetary reward."

--On Friday, Ruckriegle dealt the prosecution another blow, turning down a motion to delay the trial.

Prosecutors are still waiting to hear from the Colorado Supreme Court whether justices will consider their appeal of Ruckriegle's ruling allowing Bryant's attorneys to present evidence about the woman's sexual activities in the three days surrounding her encounter with Bryant.

Legal experts said the ruling on the woman's mental health history could help encourage her to continue participating in the criminal case by keeping potentially embarrassing information out of public view.

If convicted, the 25-year-old Los Angeles Lakers guard faces four years to life in prison or 20 years to life on probation, and a fine up to $750,000.

[SoloFlyer]

With all the help of the judge in this case, Kobe will walk. Rape is legal in Colorado if you are famous and the victim is human.

[MysteryMomma]

CO is back to only nuns and virgins can be raped.......sad.

I don't know what really happened in this case. But Kobe's money bought him a defense that will let him walk.

[Bhodirasta]

Solo and Mysterymomma,

how yall doin'?
I lived 20 minutes from Eagle Colorado (Vail) for quite a while. I lived in the mountains. Right near where this young lady lived. I know the streets, the the steeps, the parks, the groomers, the back bowls, I know where to go for a reggae show (one place in Vail has a bouncing floor! So when you go to a reggae show, EVERYONE is on the same beat! Even the white males that can't dance! It's great!) So I hope you understand my point.

I was raped in college. I MOVED TO that area to get away from everything. The most important thing on my mind, was get to somewhere SAFE. That is all I could think at that point...

This area is not a "bad" place for women. It really isn't. In fact, it is quite the opposite ladies!!!! Gorgeous "rugged" men everywhere... The male to female ratio is unreal.. Girls can pick and choose and pick and choose, and I hope you get my drift. I NEVER locked my house or car. I never thought twice about going out in to the woods for a hike ALONE. By changing environments after my rape, I alleviated my most dubious obstacle... my utter fear behind living where I did, where I was attacked, where they never found him (I was raped in college, and later attacked (beat the begeezus out of him and got away!) by a man they never found. My rapist was there as well. At the same school I was. SO, I hope you get my point about CO...

I never felt "looked down upon" because I was a female in CO. Never.

I just wanna take up for a place that is beautfiul, good for women (it really DOES boost your confidence) magical, the views!!!!!!! The MOUNTAIN!!! THE AIR!!!!

I do not feel like this woman was raped. I feel very sorry for the victims, like myself that have to deal with these consequences. It really is disheartening. And I DO NOT blame the Pros. AT ALL. They THOUGHT she was raped as well. They backed her, they thought she was a victim.

My gals that live there are livid as well. It's disheartening for us all...
It is a good place with good people and some are snobby and rich, but that's no crime, just ignorance...

[peggy]

AP

Judge in Bryant Case Loosens Gag Order


DENVER - The judge in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case has loosened a sweeping gag order after objections from prosecutors, news organizations and attorneys for the accuser.

It replaces an Aug. 4 order that prohibited any comment to reporters by anybody connected with the case, and by people who share offices with anybody connected to the case.

The new order, made public Wednesday, permits comments to reporters in some circumstances but still prohibits talking about the character and credibility of the accuser, Bryant or any witness. Also prohibited are comments about expected testimony, the possibility of a plea agreement, and Bryant's guilt or innocence.

[Bhodirasta]

AP

Judge in Bryant Case Loosens Gag Order


DENVER - The judge in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case has loosened a sweeping gag order after objections from prosecutors, news organizations and attorneys for the accuser.

It replaces an Aug. 4 order that prohibited any comment to reporters by anybody connected with the case, and by people who share offices with anybody connected to the case.

The new order, made public Wednesday, permits comments to reporters in some circumstances but still prohibits talking about the character and credibility of the accuser, Bryant or any witness. Also prohibited are comments about expected testimony, the possibility of a plea agreement, and Bryant's guilt or innocence.



I wish I had a link,
but as of right now, I am vomiting...
One step closer to the truth, but further from victims rights. Too bad it takes so gawd dang much for the truth to come out...
The pros are in a constant process of discovery as well here...

[peggy]

I wish I had a link,
but as of right now, I am vomiting...
One step closer to the truth, but further from victims rights. Too bad it takes so gawd dang much for the truth to come out...
The pros are in a constant process of discovery as well here...

here is a link - think it is a small victory for pros - late, I know, but some movement from that very biased judge

article (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mymod/hdln/cev/sty/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=Sports&cat=Kobe_Bryant)

[SoloFlyer]

Solo and Mysterymomma,

It's disheartening for us all...
It is a good place with good people and some are snobby and rich, but that's no crime, just ignorance...


Well I think I'll go to Utah this winter for skiing, just the same. No sense taking any chances.

[Bhodirasta]

Well I think I'll go to Utah this winter for skiing, just the same. No sense taking any chances.

UTAH?
now there ya go...
Ya got the Mark Hackings there...
LOL
PS.. lived in utah as well
ETA:
If you REALLY want pow pow, AND sceenery, you should go to Jackson Hole. If you are NOT the die hard skier, but would like to get better in powder,
you should try Grand Targhee... Just over Grand Teton Pass... one of the most beautiful contintental divides you might ever see from your SUV... LOL
PS.. If you REALLY wanna see the pass, throw on the ol' cross country skis or snowshoes... you will not beleive the clarity...

Bhodi

[messiecake]

http://nypost.com/news/regionalnews/29222.htm


I think this story is relavant.............



Ive had the opinion that the AV's mental health records should be allowed in since day 1 and this story validated my thoughts.

After her first suicide attempt AV was supposedly diagnosed as bi-polar so if thats true add that to her known for sure alcohol/drug problem (which is why the pro's forked out nearly 20 grand for her to attend rehab)and how do we know if her testimony will be an accurate depiction of events? I mean she may be convinced that Kobe raped her but her mental state would play a huge part in how you percieve things,so if "rough sex" was going on in that room, it's reasonable to think that an unbalanced person might overreact to something even if it was consensual or construe things after the fact in some attention getting antics

Im obviously not saying someone who is bipolar can't be raped( after alla prostitute can be raped) so it's not like you can just dismiss what they say, but in the case of someone with mental problems shouldnt that be relevant?


I had a client who was placed in a different foster home or group home MONTHLY because she constantly claimed to have been raped DESPITE medical exams showing her hymen was intact as well as ,ahem,other areas(she claimed vaginal and anal rape-even in house with no males present) but CPS had to investigate every single claim every time and it became a huge mess and I think jaded her caseworkers(who were jaded enough already) to the point that maybe if they wouldnt take anyones claims of rape seriously the next time thus maybe a child who really was raped wouldnt get justice.



Have any of you "Kobe's guilty" belivers thought about this?
What if she came out tomorrow and said "I lied" would you belive her?
Have you ever given it a single thought that maybe he is innocent ?


Im just curious.

[peggy]

I haven't read anything yet from the Post that I would consider more than tabloid stuff--better off reading NE for things like that. But, yes, I did consider whether Kobe was innocent, but after seeing his performance on his initial interview, one with all the facial contortions, and wife by his side, didn't believe him at all, looked guilty as sin. Then when all the smear stuff started by the defense against the accuser, asked myself, "why all this, if he is innocent, just go to trial and the truth will come out." But instead they choose to try it first in the media, now why did they do that? In his immature thinking, he probably has been involved in "incidents" like this before and assumed this one would just go away also. Maybe she will, don't know, but think trial is supposed to begin this coming week? Not sure when civil one begins.

[Jeana (DP)]

MessieCake, your post is exactly why its not a smart idea to have sex with someone you do not know. You never know what you're going to get. Let's say that Kobe is innocent and simply cheated on his wife. He brought a potential wack job into their lives. She could have turned out to be a stalker who went after his family. I always told my oldest son not to have sex with any girl he didn't think was good enough to be the mother of one of his children because you never know. (no, I'm sure he didn't always follow that advice ;) )

[Bhodirasta]

There was an article some newspaper by a famous sports columnist that was speaking of a time, during the trial, when Kobe walked out on to the court.
The fans gave him a STANDING OVATION... ????
The reporter went on to state that it made him sick. At BEST this guy is a lying cheating abuser that exposed his wife to horror. I completely agree.

Nonetheless, this woman is hurtful and harmful to rape victims everywhere. If she was raped, (which I don't beleive) I am not saying she shouldn't have reported it. I am saying that I don't think she should have had sex right after the "attack". This is HIGHLY supsicious behaviour... Most rape victims don't feel like hopping in to bed and partying after the attack. In the LEAST, after she did come forward, for all rape victims everywhere, she should have at LEAST settled her partyin' down a little. I am from that area. I know people who live there. I know what she was up to afterwards, and it is not a "normal" reaction... Not sayin' she is normal, but I am saying you can't convince me that her "disorder" caused her to do any of these things,
any more than you can convince me Kobe is not "disturbed" as well.
This young woman doesn't think about anyone besides herself. If he is a rapist, then women are even more screwed than they were before this case...

[Jeana (DP)]

There was an article some newspaper by a famous sports columnist that was speaking of a time, during the trial, when Kobe walked out on to the court.
The fans gave him a STANDING OVATION... ????
The reporter went on to state that it made him sick. At BEST this guy is a lying cheating abuser that exposed his wife to horror. I completely agree.

Nonetheless, this woman is hurtful and harmful to rape victims everywhere. If she was raped, (which I don't beleive) I am not saying she shouldn't have reported it. I am saying that I don't think she should have had sex right after the "attack". This is HIGHLY supsicious behaviour... Most rape victims don't feel like hopping in to bed and partying after the attack. In the LEAST, after she did come forward, for all rape victims everywhere, she should have at LEAST settled her partyin' down a little. I am from that area. I know people who live there. I know what she was up to afterwards, and it is not a "normal" reaction... Not sayin' she is normal, but I am saying you can't convince me that her "disorder" caused her to do any of these things,
any more than you can convince me Kobe is not "disturbed" as well.
This young woman doesn't think about anyone besides herself. If he is a rapist, then women are even more screwed than they were before this case...


Good post! I agree 100% :clap: :clap: :clap:

[messiecake]

I second that!!!


:clap:


I hope my beliving in his innocence(of rape) doesnt have me come off like I support adultry nor the culture of reckless,pampered,overpaid sports "stars" and those who blindly idolize him-I dont.


And God help all furture victims as this case has indeed set some dangerous precedents!

[peggy]

Here we go - trial begins Friday with jurors appearing. Judge ruled today cameras only for opening and closing statements - first sentence in link below said closing then below said both opening and closing, and still cameras, so not too clear about that, except no live cameras for entire trial.

ruling (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=577&e=2&u=/nm/20040824/sp_nm/nba_crime_bryant_dc)

[Bhodirasta]

Thanks Jeanna. Thanks Messie.
When this case first broke, I thought she had been raped. I was a collegiate athlete, and I understand to the GREATEST extent how these "programs" will protect their star athletes at all cost. I also understand the aggression behind sports at higher levels and the types of personalities that play these sports (peeps-FYI- steroids,pain killers and booze don't mix) Footballers are sterioid heads, Basketballers are coke heads (the majority of the drug problems within these sports I am saying- I am NOT saying all of them do it, but the ones that do, choose thier drugs for a reason...)
My only consolation was the blatant stupidity of the DA's office (T shirts people...??), even though I thought this action was attrocious, borderline racism, and just freakin' stupid, I thought that this action demonstrated that they had a very solid case, AND backed the victim...
I changed my mind because her actions afterwards...
Now who in the sam hill goes and tells other girls about her "rapists" endowments???????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????
I am sorry, but when I was raped, that was the LAST thing I was thinking about. This action alone sent Hinky of the boards and down came the gauntlet. This girl is peice of work... If yall think she didn't talk about his family jewels, think again....

Peggie,
thank you for the link. I am going to be speaking to one of my girly friends there, and she will be trying to go check out the courthouse soon...
I will let yall know.

[Jeana (DP)]

Prosecutors: Bryant evidence could be damaged

DENVER - Crucial DNA evidence tested by defense experts in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case might have been contaminated, prosecutors said in a court filing released Wednesday, just two days before jury selection is to begin.

Prosecutors said they had found contamination in DNA "control" samples intended to ensure testing was accurate. They also said data from the defense's experts appears to have been manipulated.

Prosecutors asked the judge to hold a hearing Thursday to force the NBA star's attorneys to prove the reliability of the evidence intended to be presented at trial by defense experts.

Those experts include Elizabeth Johnson, who testified in a closed-court hearing in June that DNA evidence strongly suggests the alleged victim had sex with another man after her encounter with Bryant and before her hospital examination the following day.

That claim, which attorneys for the woman have denied, is a core part of the defense's strategy to undermine the accuser's credibility.

In the filing, prosecutor Dana Easter said some data from Technical Associates Inc., the California company where Johnson works, appeared to have been "whited out or otherwise manipulated."

Easter said in the filing that contamination was present in samples intended to ensure the accuracy of testing. She also said Technical Associates conducted testing earlier this month but has not provided prosecutors with those results.

* * *

Defense attorneys, who are subject to a sweeping gag order in the case, did not return a call seeking comment Wednesday.

Bryant, 26, has pleaded not guilty to felony sexual assault, saying he had consensual sex with the woman at the Vail-area resort where she worked last summer. If convicted, the Los Angeles Lakers star faces four years to life in prison or 20 years to life on probation, and a fine up to $750,000.

* * *

Defense attorneys have suggested the evidence would show the woman had sex with other men in the three days surrounding her encounter with Bryant, which they claimed was part of a pattern of behavior designed to gain the attention of a former boyfriend.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/082504dnbusbryant.1d382.html

[peggy]

Thanks, Jeana, for that link, puts another wrinkle in the mix, doesn't it. I became a little suspicious of the defense DNA "expert" when she recently testified at a slam dunk rapist trial in my area - dozens of victims, DNA all there, along with other evidence, witness accounts, etc. Anyway same "expert" testified that DNA was inaccurate and could have come from another person. Jury didn't buy it, and he was convicted on 59 counts and sentenced to about 1000 years in prison.

[Bhodirasta]

Very Interesting Jeanna.
I sure hope we don't find out he is indeed a rapist, and this young woman is just an anomole that helped wreaked havok upon the rape shield law...
I find this very curious...
I am anxious to see if this is just the prosecution's only move left, or if there really is a case of manipulative science...
Which Dna are they speaking of here? The DNA in the underwear? Do you mean to tell me that the defense was the only people that tested this underwear? I am not sure I am getting it here... Why wouldn't the pros have backed up their case with proof of manipulation instead of just denial that she had sex? Maybe it took this long to find contamination? Did the pros do the same test but with different results??? blah blah blah
Haeeelllppp

[peggy]

From what I heard from some attorney speaking about this new revelation is that prosecution is bringing it up too late to delay trial, but judge will probably rule that it can be allowed in court, during examination and cross of so-called DNA expert - she goes both ways, as do lots of defense expert witnesses, so will see how that plays out.

[peggy]

The day is here - trial begins! Prospective jurors showing up to fill out questionnaire, then interviewing of those who make cut begins, said to take about a week. Kobe won't appear until interviewing begins.

[messiecake]

Kobe REFUSED a plea.................http://celebrityjustice.warnerbros.com/news/0408/26a.html





Harvey Levin was on Bill O'Reilly and said also that the Prosecution offered a deal for him to plea to a misdemeanor and give the AV a letter of apology and he turned it down and has refused any further more discussions or negotiatons.

It's my opinion a guilty person would have taken that deal, in fact a lot of innocent people would have taken that deal just to be assured no jail time or to just end the circus.
Look at Jacko,he paid out millions to make his FIRST molestation charges "go away" (although he was /is VERY guilty).


To me this is just further proof KB is innocent and will be vindicated and his "shark" Mackey will make sure it happens!

[peggy]

I heard about that plea talk also, from what I understood in spite of reducing charge, he would still have to register as a sex offender, which is something no one wants. I think trial will go fast, and since Kobe won't testify, and maybe neither accusor, will come down to battle of DNA experts.

[Jeana (DP)]

I heard about that plea talk also, from what I understood in spite of reducing charge, he would still have to register as a sex offender, which is something no one wants. I think trial will go fast, and since Kobe won't testify, and maybe neither accusor, will come down to battle of DNA experts.


I doubt if Kobe will testify either, but his accusor must testify. If she doesn't the trial is over.

[Bhodirasta]

Yah.
Sex offender on the record doesn't sound very good...
When this case first came about, I thought to myself that there is NO WAY this woman is lying... NO WAY. I had lived there, I know athletes, etc. etc. etc. I used to think Mackey was a man in a wig. I really just (and still kinda do) thought the lady was just brutal.

I think it's weird that this is coming out so late (the evidence contaminatin rumours) actually, right before the jury is chosen, and then you have KBKD passing on a plea. Catch is, is that there is NO DOUBT KBKD is as cocky as the come, and then theres Manckey.

That is the twist.

[peggy]

I doubt if Kobe will testify either, but his accusor must testify. If she doesn't the trial is over.

Well, in Orange County here, man 19 or 20 was recently charged with statutory rape with 16 year old - he was awaiting new trial for rape of another woman, over 18, anyway, evidence collected, etc on this case, and 16 yr old said she would not testify, DA is going ahead with case anyway without her testimony. This is state vs Kobe Bryant, not accusor - of course, realize you are an attorney, but thought I would point out this case to you, and maybe you can explain it, like state laws?

[Jeana (DP)]

Well, in Orange County here, man 19 or 20 was recently charged with statutory rape with 16 year old - he was awaiting new trial for rape of another woman, over 18, anyway, evidence collected, etc on this case, and 16 yr old said she would not testify, DA is going ahead with case anyway without her testimony. This is state vs Kobe Bryant, not accusor - of course, realize you are an attorney, but thought I would point out this case to you, and maybe you can explain it, like state laws?


With the DNA problems in this case, the forensic evidence is not reliable. The testimony of the alleged victim is the next most important thing the DA in this case has. Without solid irrefutable DNA evidence and no cooperation from the victim, there is no case.

[peggy]

Thanks for your reply Jeana. Heard on TV this morning that Celebrity Justice will be showing some information on upcoming trial - something about very damaging statements made by accuser and also confirmed by Kobe in his statement that will inflict some very unfavorable image opinions of Kobe -- have never watched CJ, but just passing that on for anyone interested.

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks for your reply Jeana. Heard on TV this morning that Celebrity Justice will be showing some information on upcoming trial - something about ver