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JBean
12-24-2010, 12:17 AM
Another thread with information and links about pregnancy denial for reference (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75604&highlight=pregnancy)

Mrs G Norris
12-24-2010, 12:29 AM
Just wondering if you might know where to find any other pictures of KC from her uncle's wedding? :gthanks:



The only other ones I have are these:

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac286/Mrs_G_Norris/Casey%20Anthony%20pre-trial%20images/rickrobinswedding1212.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac286/Mrs_G_Norris/Casey%20Anthony%20pre-trial%20images/rickwithwife-1.jpg

I wish I had more, would love to see any others of Casey during this time .. but was pretty stunned when I saw these to see how brazen she was and how nutso the whole denial scenario is once you see the hard evidence. Unbelievable isn't it?

JBean
12-24-2010, 12:42 AM
here is another

JBean
12-24-2010, 12:50 AM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x161/need2no/Pics%20to%20share/Anthony-Caseypregnant.jpg

not sure if this can be posted 3rd party, but i'll put it up for a bit anyway and then take it down later. It's a good one.

Harvey
12-24-2010, 01:04 AM
Who could look at this picture and believe CA's denial that ICA isn't preggers? Wow. Nutty...all of them.



http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x161/need2no/Pics%20to%20share/Anthony-Caseypregnant.jpg

not sure if this can be posted 3rd party, but i'll put it up for a bit anyway and then take it down later. It's a good one.

Mrs G Norris
12-24-2010, 01:08 AM
Nobody. It makes no sense.

lauriej
12-24-2010, 05:08 AM
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x161/need2no/Pics%20to%20share/Anthony-Caseypregnant.jpg

not sure if this can be posted 3rd party, but i'll put it up for a bit anyway and then take it down later. It's a good one.

...i know uncle rick called her--or cindy rather---on it immediatley.

( pregnant?? nonsense! she's a virgin!...a tumour perhaps...)

...but i don't remember seeing in friends interviews where they mentioned kc being pregnant, and hanging out with her etc. during that time frame at all..

...surely she (and her tumour) didn't just stay home for 9 months and kick back with cindy...

Aedrys
12-24-2010, 11:24 AM
...i know uncle rick called her--or cindy rather---on it immediatley.

( pregnant?? nonsense! she's a virgin!...a tumour perhaps...)

...but i don't remember seeing in friends interviews where they mentioned kc being pregnant, and hanging out with her etc. during that time frame at all..

...surely she (and her tumour) didn't just stay home for 9 months and kick back with cindy...

Or maybe she lied to her friends, told them she was pregnant, and lied about the father and that everything was going to be okay. She probably wove some grand story to them about this pregnancy and they just went along with it and didn't question her about it. She had no reason to keep this from her friends, and I can see her totally doing this just to get on Cindy's nerves. Cindy can't control how Casey is around her friends.

Either that or Cindy kept her locked in her room for nine months, only letting her leave for things like Rick's wedding.

Schmerty_Jones
12-24-2010, 06:08 PM
Bu..Bu..BUT....wasn't Jesse G. ordered to come & sign the birth certificate as the Father of the Tumor? I think his family had a paternity test to show he was NOT the father & the A family was pissed!!!:truce:

newsaddict
12-24-2010, 07:25 PM
Guys bear with me, but I have been thinking for awhile that Casey never intended on bringing up Caylee or allowing her to live much past her first breath. I don't think we can ignore the pregnancy denial. Think of all those girls who hide their pregnancy, then deliver in secret and carry on as if nothing ever happened. If Rick hadn't intervened and forced Cindy and George to acknowledge the fact that Casey was pregnant, I think that Casey would have just had her somewhere, disposed of her then carried on with her life as if she had been some kind of benign tumor which had miraculously disappeared. Caylee's eventual murder was possibly an overdue event in Casey's mind if this theory is correct and she had been living on borrowed time. Do any of you think this scenario is possible?

This is from a story which wrapped up last week, which set me to thinking, would Casey have acted the same way towards Caylee as Keli Lane did towards Tegan if she had never been exposed at the wedding?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pregnancy-denial-linked-to-lifestyle-20101214-18wwg.html
Wow I never thought about that as a possibilty! But I think you may truly have something there! Good critical thinking!!!

seagull65
12-28-2010, 01:02 PM
Guys bear with me, but I have been thinking for awhile that Casey never intended on bringing up Caylee or allowing her to live much past her first breath. I don't think we can ignore the pregnancy denial. Think of all those girls who hide their pregnancy, then deliver in secret and carry on as if nothing ever happened. If Rick hadn't intervened and forced Cindy and George to acknowledge the fact that Casey was pregnant, I think that Casey would have just had her somewhere, disposed of her then carried on with her life as if she had been some kind of benign tumor which had miraculously disappeared. Caylee's eventual murder was possibly an overdue event in Casey's mind if this theory is correct and she had been living on borrowed time. Do any of you think this scenario is possible?

This is from a story which wrapped up last week, which set me to thinking, would Casey have acted the same way towards Caylee as Keli Lane did towards Tegan if she had never been exposed at the wedding?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pregnancy-denial-linked-to-lifestyle-20101214-18wwg.html
whether this is what happened in this case I don't know, but of course this phenomenon certainly can happen, and you put it very well. In this case there are some facts that would seem (to me, MOO) to argue against it. Casey didn't pursue an abortion or apparently even look into it, never pursued options to give Caylee up for adoption despite opportunities, refused a friend who wanted to adopt Caylee (of course the offer of adoption from KMTC was pretty weird, but Casey could easily have given Caylee up for adoption to another adoptive family.)

Despite the media image of Casey supposedly never having wanted Caylee etc, in reality, all the old friends and family who were around Casey throughout the pregnancy and Caylee's lifetime say that Casey had a very good bond with Caylee, apparently she breastfed her as an infant, provided very good care for her throughout her almost 3 years of life, showed a concern for her safety and welfare, and "spoiled" her. And according to friends, Caylee liked to be held by Casey, didn't like for Casey to go out of her sight, she was bonded to Casey. Regarding the denial of the pregnancy at the wedding, I think it's possible that Cindy just had no desire to discuss the subject with Rick or other relatives at the wedding and felt that it was a private matter.

But I can't totally rule out the theory you describe either, imo.
I do think there seem to be avoidance/denial/stalling/pretending type behaviors by Casey in other ways from what we've read/seen, so.....

On the other hand again, Casey had cared for Caylee well throughout infancy and for these almost 3 years, and Caylee was now of an age she could soon go into preschool during the days etc. Casey had always been able to leave Caylee with her mother in the evenings to a great degree, she knew she could leave Caylee with her parents if she did want to lessen her parental responsibilities or even give up custody completely if she wanted to her mother, while still being able to see Caylee if she wanted.

If Casey is in fact the person who killed Caylee, I still have the gut feeling it would not have been because of an ongoing desire to be rid of Caylee. Maybe because of something else that happened in June 2008. For example if something bad had happened to Caylee that Casey did not know how to face her parents or authorities with, something she would not be able to conceal or explain away, whether an injury or other bad event happening to Caylee. Or possibly it was an accidental death that Casey didn't have the courage to face her parents with. Or, who knows, what if Casey had the onset of serious mental illness or began using more drugs that we're aware of during the time frame and had a radical change in her behavior, though friends say they didn't notice anything like that. (And I also consider it possible that Casey herself was not the killer.)
Thanks for the good thread and discussion, I don't rule out your theory :)

ynotdivein
12-28-2010, 01:59 PM
(snip)

If Casey is in fact the person who killed Caylee, I still have the gut feeling it would not have been because of an ongoing desire to be rid of Caylee. Maybe because of something else that happened in June 2008. For example if something bad had happened to Caylee that Casey did not know how to face her parents or authorities with, something she would not be able to conceal or explain away, whether an injury or other bad event happening to Caylee. Or possibly it was an accidental death that Casey didn't have the courage to face her parents with. Or, who knows, what if Casey had the onset of serious mental illness or began using more drugs that we're aware of during the time frame and had a radical change in her behavior, though friends say they didn't notice anything like that. (And I also consider it possible that Casey herself was not the killer.)
Thanks for the good thread and discussion, I don't rule out your theory :)

RS&BBM...

Three layers of duct tape were wrapped so tightly over Caylee's mouth and nose that after her flesh decayed, the tape held her mandible in place and her hair around her skull... Somehow that does not scream "accident" or "mishap."

I don't pretend to fathom exactly when KC decided to kill her daughter. In fact I don't know that she ever decided to kill Caylee, as much as she got herself accustomed to the possible future fact of Caylee being gone. IMO, the murder itself was the least of her worries and probably came pretty easy to her. And once Caylee was dead and in the trunk, the next time KC had to think about her was when she started to smell... at which point, poof, she disappeared her down the street in the swamp.

Life without Caylee was always haunting the back of KC's mind. Did she premeditate exactly how she would murder her daughter? Maybe not. But she made space in her mind for a life of freedom without Caylee and when her rage or negligence caused that baby's death, she grabbed some duct tape and some bags from the garage and made the most of what she saw as a grand opportunity.

Tink
12-28-2010, 07:46 PM
Just a couple of thoughts...the fact that Caylee wanted to be with her mother and got upset if she left the room, doesn't necessarily mean she was being "well-mothered" or had a good, secure attachment. Excessive clinginess can also be a sign of an insecure attachment, of a child who is trying to maintain a relationship with a parent she feels uncertain about or even fears.

I also think that the desire to be rid of Caylee may have had something to do with Caylee's getting older. As a baby or toddler, she would have been relatively easy to take along for overnights with various boys and to parties. But as she became an increasingly aware and verbal child, I suspect that KC's sexual partners were less and less comfortable about having Caylee along for overnights, and KC must have been concerned that Caylee would tell people things she'd seen. She was getting to the point where she might have said to Tony "we stayed over at Uncle Ricardo's last night" or told Cindy about the realities of her life. I think that's what KC was afraid of - her whole network of lies could tumble down if Caylee started to tell what she knew.

Tink

logicalgirl
12-28-2010, 10:03 PM
Just a couple of thoughts...the fact that Caylee wanted to be with her mother and got upset if she left the room, doesn't necessarily mean she was being "well-mothered" or had a good, secure attachment. Excessive clinginess can also be a sign of an insecure attachment, of a child who is trying to maintain a relationship with a parent she feels uncertain about or even fears.

I also think that the desire to be rid of Caylee may have had something to do with Caylee's getting older. As a baby or toddler, she would have been relatively easy to take along for overnights with various boys and to parties. But as she became an increasingly aware and verbal child, I suspect that KC's sexual partners were less and less comfortable about having Caylee along for overnights, and KC must have been concerned that Caylee would tell people things she'd seen. She was getting to the point where she might have said to Tony "we stayed over at Uncle Ricardo's last night" or told Cindy about the realities of her life. I think that's what KC was afraid of - her whole network of lies could tumble down if Caylee started to tell what she knew.

Tink

Yes, something simple like - no jammies Nana - no put on jammies - Mommy doesn't wear her jammies when we sleep in Uncle Ricardo's bed - sigh.

Horace Finklestein
12-28-2010, 11:53 PM
BBM- Ha! Yeah, I would not have known if my daughter were taken away on the back of a donkey, I was so stoned from the baby-havin' drugs.
But really? KC was so affected by it? And she was not having an easy time of the whole procedure, but found a way to be deeply resentful? Yep, whack-a-doodle.
However,, they do know how to keep bizarre grudges, the Anthonys. But as with everything in their world, I think there's more to it, maybe like custody threats before Caylee was born...

It is odd to picture Casey being genuinely upset by that. She didn't have a problem handing Caylee off to Cindy for the next 2 years. Are we REALLY supposed to believe Casey cared a whit about who held Caylee? I guess she is attached to Caylee when it benefits her/gets her praise or attention.

Cabin girl
12-29-2010, 10:07 AM
I suspect that Casey enjoyed being the center of attention as a pregnant woman. Cindy has mentioned a baby shower and showed Greta something she made as a keepsake of that baby shower. I think Casey loved that attention, receiving gifts and her mom opening her wallet for all the baby furniture.

Coming home from the hospital with a new baby, Casey was again the center of attention and likely received more gifts.

But, as Caylee grew older and started having the first of many firsts - first smile, first laugh, sitting up for the first time, creeping, first step, first tooth, etc., the attention was drawn away from Casey and now Caylee was the center of attention.

On top of Caylee being the center of attention, she also needed a lot of care and taking care of Caylee didn't allow Casey to do what she wanted. I think Casey's resentment of Caylee began very early on.

And let's not forget, Caylee, at almost three years old was becoming very verbal. ICA had to be threatened that Caylee would innocently expose her lies and I suspect the abuse as well. I wonder if Caylee hated getting in the car. How many times did ICA knock her out there? Did she wake up in the trunk more than once?

LCoastMom
12-29-2010, 12:35 PM
Or maybe she lied to her friends, told them she was pregnant, and lied about the father and that everything was going to be okay. She probably wove some grand story to them about this pregnancy and they just went along with it and didn't question her about it. She had no reason to keep this from her friends, and I can see her totally doing this just to get on Cindy's nerves. Cindy can't control how Casey is around her friends.

Either that or Cindy kept her locked in her room for nine months, only letting her leave for things like Rick's wedding.

To hear CA tell it, the pregnancy was an immaculate conception - pretty darn grandiose!

ICA was newly in a relationship with JG, if her last actions were a sign of past history - she spent most of her time with him and she actually had a job to go to way back when.

logicalgirl
12-29-2010, 01:16 PM
To hear CA tell it, the pregnancy was an immaculate conception - pretty darn grandiose!

ICA was newly in a relationship with JG, if her last actions were a sign of past history - she spent most of her time with him and she actually had a job to go to way back when.

I think most mothers have an issue with saying - yup - my daughter is a s**t and she has no idea who the father is, particular to a critical family member.

LCoastMom
12-30-2010, 10:19 PM
I think most mothers have an issue with saying - yup - my daughter is a s**t and she has no idea who the father is, particular to a critical family member.

I wouldn't expect her to, but since CA toted a very pregnant ICA to her brother's wedding, you would think she could have done better than "She's a virgin (none of their business) and It's a tumor - (an obvious lie).

CA and ICA had other choices (1) leaving ICA at home, (2) telling her brother to MYOB - his wedding was not the time or the place for this discussion! Oh and (3) wearing a dress that didn't shout out: BABY ON BOARD!

Maybe something along the lines of "If there is an announcement to be made, we'll let you know."

The dynamics of this family never cease to amaze.

logicalgirl
12-31-2010, 01:10 AM
I wouldn't expect her to, but since CA toted a very pregnant ICA to her brother's wedding, you would think she could have done better than "She's a virgin (none of their business) and It's a tumor - (an obvious lie).

CA and ICA had other choices (1) leaving ICA at home, (2) telling her brother to MYOB - his wedding was not the time or the place for this discussion! Oh and (3) wearing a dress that didn't shout out: BABY ON BOARD!

Maybe something along the lines of "If there is an announcement to be made, we'll let you know."

The dynamics of this family never cease to amaze.

Umm - maybe this is just a sample of Anthony family attempting humor?:floorlaugh:

LolaMoon08
12-31-2010, 02:51 AM
whether this is what happened in this case I don't know, but of course this phenomenon certainly can happen, and you put it very well. In this case there are some facts that would seem (to me, MOO) to argue against it. Casey didn't pursue an abortion or apparently even look into it, never pursued options to give Caylee up for adoption despite opportunities, refused a friend who wanted to adopt Caylee (of course the offer of adoption from KMTC was pretty weird, but Casey could easily have given Caylee up for adoption to another adoptive family.)

I guess we are assuming that Casey did not look into abortion or adoption? I could easily assume that she did look into both options. There is no proof either way. To think I'm going to take any of the Anthony's words on the matter, is just not going to happen! The fact is, Casey could have easily walked into any of the Planned Parenthoods and gone over her options. She was an adult. She didn't need her parents permission. It would be confidential. I'm not saying that she did do anything like this, but just as easy as it is to assume that she did not, it is easy to assume that she did. We just don't know?

Despite the media image of Casey supposedly never having wanted Caylee etc, in reality, all the old friends and family who were around Casey throughout the pregnancy and Caylee's lifetime say that Casey had a very good bond with Caylee, apparently she breastfed her as an infant, provided very good care for her throughout her almost 3 years of life, showed a concern for her safety and welfare, and "spoiled" her. And according to friends, Caylee liked to be held by Casey, didn't like for Casey to go out of her sight, she was bonded to Casey. Regarding the denial of the pregnancy at the wedding, I think it's possible that Cindy just had no desire to discuss the subject with Rick or other relatives at the wedding and felt that it was a private matter.

If I was a young mother, and I didn't have to provide the physical, emotional or financial care for my young child that 99% of other mothers do, I would be able to pull off the appearance of a perfect loving mother for a few hours. Never frustrated. Never overwhelmed. Never tired. etc...

I would really like the proof that shows that Casey cared for Caylee physically, emotionally, and financially for the almost 3 years of her life? From all accounts, and George's own words before he started lying, they (Cindy and George) had Caylee 99% of the time. We know that Casey pushed Caylee off on Lauren and the Grunds during the first year of her life.

I don't know about you, but I have seen maybe 10-20 pictures of Casey actually with Caylee in them? You would think that of all the pictures she sold, she'd want to include the ones of herself with Caylee?

Casey "spoiled" Caylee? Really? Cindy spoiled Caylee! Cindy provided for Caylee! Cindy provided a home for Caylee! Cindy fed Caylee! Cindy clothed Caylee! Cindy paid for Caylee's medical care! Cindy provided a childrens wonderland in that home for Caylee! Casey did NOTHING for Caylee!

But I can't totally rule out the theory you describe either, imo.
I do think there seem to be avoidance/denial/stalling/pretending type behaviors by Casey in other ways from what we've read/seen, so.....

On the other hand again, Casey had cared for Caylee well throughout infancy and for these almost 3 years, and Caylee was now of an age she could soon go into preschool during the days etc. Casey had always been able to leave Caylee with her mother in the evenings to a great degree, she knew she could leave Caylee with her parents if she did want to lessen her parental responsibilities or even give up custody completely if she wanted to her mother, while still being able to see Caylee if she wanted.

How in the world would Casey be able to afford daycare if she was not working? Why would she even need daycare if she was not working?

Yes, Casey was able to leave Caylee with Cindy, but Casey would NEVER give Caylee to Cindy. Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee. Caylee was a game piece in a vicious game between these two women.

If Casey is in fact the person who killed Caylee, I still have the gut feeling it would not have been because of an ongoing desire to be rid of Caylee. Maybe because of something else that happened in June 2008. For example if something bad had happened to Caylee that Casey did not know how to face her parents or authorities with, something she would not be able to conceal or explain away, whether an injury or other bad event happening to Caylee. Or possibly it was an accidental death that Casey didn't have the courage to face her parents with. Or, who knows, what if Casey had the onset of serious mental illness or began using more drugs that we're aware of during the time frame and had a radical change in her behavior, though friends say they didn't notice anything like that. (And I also consider it possible that Casey herself was not the killer.)
Thanks for the good thread and discussion, I don't rule out your theory :)

What part of three pieces of duct tape wrapped around a two-year-old babies face makes you believe that this was an accident? I really want to understand this?

The duct tape is just a sliver of evidence that proves that someone, and I am not willing to blame Cindy and George for the actual murder of Caylee, from that Hopespring Drive home murdered Caylee. Are you willing to believe that some mysterious person had complete access to the Anthony home AND Casey's car?

Look, early on in this case, I would have loved nothing more than to know (or even think) that a mother could not do this to their own child. Looking at the evidence in this case, it is 100% clear, to me, that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, Caylee Anthony. There is nothing that has come out in these past two and a half years that has given me reason to look at anyone other than Casey Anthony. I do not believe she had help! I believe she is 100% responsible to the actual murder and I think the motive is simple, and she, herself, said it best, she's a "spiteful *****."

Beatrice
05-08-2011, 02:13 PM
This is just my opinion.....

Casey did not want to have the baby. Cindy talked her into it by promising her that she would give her all she needed to raise Caylee. That Casey would not have to work & all her needs would be provided for.

Of course, as time passed this agreement fell apart.
As Caylee grew older & began to talk.....Things got stressful for Casey.

Because of Cindy's confusion over June 9th and June 15th.....I think there was a full-out argument on June 9th where Cindy gave Casey an ultimatum.
Cindy & George were going on vacation & they expected Casey to make an effort to bond with Caylee. If not, they would adopt Caylee and Casey would be out on her own.

They pulled the rug from under her. A sociopathic, delusuional, addicted daughter.

Remember Casey's "ME, TOO!" Was she also planning a vacation?
Cindy & George, Amy & Ricardo, and Tony...all on vacation.

Where was Casey on Father's Day? Did she know that her embezzlement of money was to come to the forefront? Cindy claims she was in the pool with Casey....No....It was Caylee & Casey felt it was too cold. (A lie?) Wouldn't that be the time to discusss the embezzlement of the grandparent's money?

angeldust
05-08-2011, 03:03 PM
See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

Beatrice
05-08-2011, 03:15 PM
See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

Who held Caylee right after her birth?

Tulessa
05-08-2011, 03:58 PM
See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

Keep in mind who we are talking about here. ICA loved money too GOOD to waste it on an abortion. After all, how was she going to pay her cell phone bill if she paid for the abortion? ICA DID want to let he friend adopt the baby and that's when CA put her foot down. What was the man's name who ICA borrowed the shovel from? He witnessed those fights also IIRC.

lowens1975
05-08-2011, 03:59 PM
See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

She may have not wanted the baby but didn't have money or means to do anything about it. Casey was 18, right? I'm not 100% sure about that, but if she was, then that would mean that CA's insurance at work would no longer allow CA to carry Casey. You know ICA, she probably thought she could fool her parents long enough to give birth and give the child up for adoption. By all accounts, she only had to fool them for a couple of more months.

She could have found out about her own pregnancy too late to terminate it.

Kiomarie was right on the money when she told LE that she thought they ought to the check the woods at the back of the school. Unless she and ICA had a bad falling out, she wouldn't have any reason to lie to LE about the conversation she said she had with ICA about adopting Caylee.

So far, nothing has been released that would discredit Kiomarie, on the other hand, you could fill up a blank copy of 'War and Peace' with ICA's lies.

And...to keep it on topic..the struggle of CA trying to keep ICA focused on being a mother instead of growing up to be a shot girl at Fusion caused friction, and that in turn kept them going at each other over Caylee.

LolaMoon08
05-08-2011, 04:11 PM
Everyone needs to remember that Casey actually had a job before Caylee was born so she could have afforded to get an abortion if she wanted to. She was an adult. I do not think she was forced by Cindy, or anyone else, to have Caylee.

Also, Casey didn't need her parents permission to give Caylee up for adoption if that is what she wanted to do. When it comes to adoption, Cindy and George would have no rights that I know of to stop Casey from putting Caylee up for adoption.

Again, something that had been brewing exploded on June 15th, 2008. I don't know if it is how Casey planned it... or even if that was the moment she was going to carry out her plans. I will say this... Caylee's days were numbered no matter how it happened... why it happened... and when it happened. If it didn't happen on June 15/16th... it would have happened eventually.

MOO

Tulessa
05-08-2011, 04:12 PM
There seems to be a lot of interest in this alone, so I thought I would start a thread just to discuss it.

How did she hide it for so long?

I will tell you now how it was for me. Until I hit my eighth month and started showing, I doubted I was pregnant. Back in the 70's, I chose not to know the sex of my son. I wanted it to be a surprise. I'm tiny, I'm five feet and NO Inches (most Cherokees are short) and weigh a whopping 100 pounds. When I had my son, I weighed 136 and they didn't make maternity clothes small enough to fit me lol. It's VERY possible that ICA didn't start showing until her last few months. I was eight months before I even got a bulge in my tummy. So I think of this when I think of ICA not showing. If I hadn't been reassured by my Dr. That I was INDEED pregnant, I would have doubted it myself. My son was born weighing seven pounds and six ounces and is now 6'3 and a whopping 200 pound. He's also the light of my life. :)

lowens1975
05-08-2011, 04:14 PM
Could a mod maybe move some of the discussion over here?

luv
05-08-2011, 04:26 PM
If she wore baggy clothes she may have been able to hide her pregnacy but if you look at her in this photo she doesn't seem to make any attempt to hide her belly.
http://humbleopinion.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/caseypreg.jpg?w=112&h=275
http://humbleopinion.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/caseypreg.jpg?w=112&h=275

WolfmarsGirl
05-08-2011, 04:27 PM
She may not have known. I remember being her age and worrying, month to month, "am I, oh my gosh, am I not???" And, what I didn't know was that I could not get pregnant without the help of fertility meds. Sigh.

But in any case, skipping periods for a kid that age is pretty normal. Most girls are scared to know the truth, so maybe she ignored it?

What I am concerned about is the identity of the father. I am a little surprised no one has come forward and acknowledged that he was 'with' KC at about the time she got preggo. But, if he did, he might have the DT bus headed for him, so maybe it is not much of a surprise.

I wonder if they ever did a paternity test on that JP kid? He is an absolute dead-ringer for the baby. Have we ever seen testimony from him? I know there is one transcript of his testimony that has not been released, but is there another?

Scamperoo
05-08-2011, 04:27 PM
She seemed to be showing just fine, everyone else knew she was pregnant but her own mother, a nurse bought into the delusion Casey had just put on a little weight? I don't buy that. Maybe she denied it until 6 months...maybe! I am sure Casey had already figured it out, but if she didn't want to keep the baby why hide the pregnancy? She was employed when she became pregnant, her last quarters earnings were $3,800 +, she had no expenses of any sort, her car was provided, food shelter etc. If she had wanted to terminate she was financially capable of doing so.

The spotlight was on her until the baby was born then it was transferred to Caylee and that is when the problems began. I don't remember hearing of her stealing before Caylee was born, so I believe Caylee was the catalyst.

WolfmarsGirl
05-08-2011, 04:30 PM
Guys bear with me, but I have been thinking for awhile that Casey never intended on bringing up Caylee or allowing her to live much past her first breath. I don't think we can ignore the pregnancy denial. Think of all those girls who hide their pregnancy, then deliver in secret and carry on as if nothing ever happened. If Rick hadn't intervened and forced Cindy and George to acknowledge the fact that Casey was pregnant, I think that Casey would have just had her somewhere, disposed of her then carried on with her life as if she had been some kind of benign tumor which had miraculously disappeared. Caylee's eventual murder was possibly an overdue event in Casey's mind if this theory is correct and she had been living on borrowed time. Do any of you think this scenario is possible?

This is from a story which wrapped up last week, which set me to thinking, would Casey have acted the same way towards Caylee as Keli Lane did towards Tegan if she had never been exposed at the wedding?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pregnancy-denial-linked-to-lifestyle-20101214-18wwg.html

Possibly. But, there is a certain amount of bonding that happens with time for a mother and child.

Tulessa
05-08-2011, 04:30 PM
She seemed to be showing just fine, everyone else knew she was pregnant but her own mother, a nurse bought into the delusion Casey had just put on a little weight? I don't buy that. Maybe she denied it until 6 months...maybe! I am sure Casey had already figured it out, but if she didn't want to keep the baby why hide the pregnancy? She was employed when she became pregnant, her last quarters earnings were $3,800 +, she had no expenses of any sort, her car was provided, food shelter etc. If she had wanted to terminate she was financially capable of doing so.

The spotlight was on her until the baby was born then it was transferred to Caylee and that is when the problems began. I don't remember hearing of her stealing before Caylee was born, so I believe Caylee was the catalyst.

You have a way of slapping me back into reality! :floorlaugh:

Quiche
05-08-2011, 04:31 PM
I think KC postured with her pregnancy (concealing it until too late to abort) so that George and Cindy, under the threat of giving the baby up for adoption, would promise to do anything for her if she'd keep the baby. KC had them over a barrel. jmo

Scamperoo
05-08-2011, 04:36 PM
You have a way of slapping me back into reality! :floorlaugh:

:giggle: http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt316/MikiMonkey_photo/th_snapoutofit.gif :floorlaugh:

uklaw
05-08-2011, 04:37 PM
A similar case in the UK, although not NEARLY as much attention (I only just found out about it):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-13268019

LolaMoon08
05-08-2011, 04:39 PM
This is only my opinion and I want to first say that I am not bashing Casey's body type. We both have very similar body types.

Casey is short, yes. She is skinny, yes. But Casey has hips and she has breasts. She is curvy. Like me. She does not have the body type to be able to stay skinny her entire life without even trying. I do not think she has the body type to be able to conceal a pregnancy for very long. Maybe the first 4 months... maybe even to her 5th month. I think by her 6th month she would be showing enough for people to notice. We know for a fact that she was very pregnant at 7 months.

Now, that is not to say that she could not have covered up with baggier clothes in those earlier months. Sat on the couch with a pillow over her stomach area.

I don't know?? I'm still shocked that Cindy denied Casey being pregnant at Rick's wedding. She was so pregnant!

uklaw
05-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Everyone needs to remember that Casey actually had a job before Caylee was born so she could have afforded to get an abortion if she wanted to. She was an adult. I do not think she was forced by Cindy, or anyone else, to have Caylee.

I thought there would be free clinics (provided by organizations such as PP or other pro-choice groups) to perform abortions, in the US and avoid "unwanted" or "neglected" children.

LolaMoon08
05-08-2011, 04:55 PM
I thought there would be free clinics (provided by organizations such as PP or other pro-choice groups) to perform abortions, in the US and avoid "unwanted" or "neglected" children.

I have no idea?? I've never looked into it??

krimekat
05-08-2011, 05:01 PM
I thought there would be free clinics (provided by organizations such as PP or other pro-choice groups) to perform abortions, in the US and avoid "unwanted" or "neglected" children.

There are & there are Safe Haven laws where you can leave your kids at specific locations without repercussions. It is not difficult to seek out an abortion in the US if you are < 24 weeks . . .

I believe KC was in denial & thought it would "go away if you don't talk about it". I also believe she would have killed the baby if the pregnancy was concealed until full term. I, too, believe that killing Caylee was just a way late term abortion in KCs eyes -- and it hurt her mother in the process.

ZsaZsa
05-08-2011, 05:28 PM
If she wore baggy clothes she may have been able to hide her pregnacy but if you look at her in this photo she doesn't seem to make any attempt to hide her belly.
http://humbleopinion.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/caseypreg.jpg?w=112&h=275
http://humbleopinion.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/caseypreg.jpg?w=112&h=275

Any mother can look at that bulge and see it is a pregnancy.Particularly if she is an RN. She does not have any generalized weight gain, it's all in her abdomen. How much of a doofus can CA be? She could see exactly what we see but chooses to believe her daughter's lies. Now there's a surprise!
No wonder her family laughs at her.

luv
05-08-2011, 05:39 PM
There are & there are Safe Haven laws where you can leave your kids at specific locations without repercussions. It is not difficult to seek out an abortion in the US if you are < 24 weeks . . .

I believe KC was in denial & thought it would "go away if you don't talk about it". I also believe she would have killed the baby if the pregnancy was concealed until full term. I, too, believe that killing Caylee was just a way late term abortion in KCs eyes -- and it hurt her mother in the process.

BBM
Which is what I think she meant when she told Lee *this should have been done a long time ago*.

Mrs G Norris
05-08-2011, 05:46 PM
Who held Caylee right after her birth?

Cindy apparently, Casey complained about it to Jesse, and the family were well aware it was a bone of contention, George mentioned it in one of the early police interviews.

Possibly. But, there is a certain amount of bonding that happens with time for a mother and child.

Yes, but we're talking about a child who has died at the hands of the mother, so in this case the bond was never formed .. doubt if Casey was capable of that kind of bonding myself.

Casey Serin
05-08-2011, 06:01 PM
She may have not wanted the baby but didn't have money or means to do anything about it. Casey was 18, right? I'm not 100% sure about that, but if she was, then that would mean that CA's insurance at work would no longer allow CA to carry Casey. You know ICA, she probably thought she could fool her parents long enough to give birth and give the child up for adoption. By all accounts, she only had to fool them for a couple of more months.

<snipped>
.

I knew a girl who was in total denial about her pregnancy for 5 months. Completely disassociated from the reality that she was having a baby, lied to her friends, hid it from her partner and due to the lack of support, lived in fear of giving birth. Total wreck. Required significant counselling and had great difficulties bonding with her child.
Came from a very weird household too. Both parents were very oppressive and manipulative people. Just saying.

gngr~snap
05-08-2011, 06:17 PM
MOO ICA HID the pregnancy. CA DENIED it.

My daughter was born at 25 1/2 weeks. By 7 months I was a mom! and she was 2 1/2 weeks old. CA baffles me to no end.

ZsaZsa
05-08-2011, 06:21 PM
Cindy apparently, Casey complained about it to Jesse, and the family were well aware it was a bone of contention, George mentioned it in one of the early police interviews.



Yes, but we're talking about a child who has died at the hands of the mother, so in this case the bond was never formed .. doubt if Casey was capable of that kind of bonding myself.

When CA was first being questioned about Caylee being 'missing' she explained that ICA had taken time away from home "to bond with her child" which at the time I thought was a bizarre thing to say- what mother of a 2year old hasn't formed a bond by then? She didn't seem to think that was odd but it was very revealing to me.

Mrs G Norris
05-08-2011, 06:34 PM
^^ ITA ^^ they make a lot of verbal slips that reveal the truth don't they?

belle3
05-08-2011, 09:17 PM
I always thought there was a specific reason for casey attending that wedding very obviously pregnant, smiling and posing for pics. Was it to humiliate her mom? Was it to make some kind of point?? She really seemed to be happy in that pic upthread. imo.

azwriter
05-08-2011, 11:43 PM
I'm very sure Casey knew she was pregnant. And Cindy knew as well but Cindy denied the fact. That behavior to me points out how much alike mother and daughter are. When something isn't the way they want it, Cindy and Casey lie.

As for Casey being old enough to end her pregnancy, that may be, but she was not strong enough or wise enough to do it. I always get the feeling Casey has never been tuned into life at all. I don't think, because of her parents' always bailing her out, she has ever been forced to face the conquensence of her actions.

Who steals from a friend checking account when you know you will soon come face to face with that friend?

Who casually lies to authorities to the point of leading them down the hallway of an office building to a office for a job she does not have. Finally tells the truth but in follow-up questions still insists she does have a job?

Who leads the police on a wild goose chase to an apartment where she claims she last saw her child, but knows she's never been inside that apartment?

I do believe Cindy was overwhelmed by her daugher's behavior but to cope, she covered it up. Mainly because whatever Casey did, Cindy did not want it to reflect back on herself as the woman who would be the mother of a child like Casey.

My mother was very much like that. Whenever I did something or didn't do something that she felt reflected on her parenting abilities, she always said "Look what you've done to me." It was always about her and how she appear to the rest of the world. I think this is exactly how Cindy viewed her daughter Casey.
jmo

LinasK
05-08-2011, 11:55 PM
I thought there would be free clinics (provided by organizations such as PP or other pro-choice groups) to perform abortions, in the US and avoid "unwanted" or "neglected" children.
F.Y. I., they may be called "free clinics", but abortion services aren't free...

Spangle
05-09-2011, 12:09 AM
CA denying the pregnancy put a stop to folks wanting to talk about it. After asking and her saying no, what else is there to say? I mean, when your looking at that belly, and they are denying it. Seriously? Polite manners, you just ignore the situation and talk about something else.

CA knew her daughter was prego. She just didn't want to talk about it.

Never4GetCaylee
05-30-2011, 07:49 PM
I was watching some clips of testimony today and when CA and GA were talking about the time when ICA was pregnant and none of what they were saying rang true or seemed believable to me. JB had a point about him asking ICA who the father was. What father doesn't ask that??? And even if he deferred to CA to find out, he didn't say that. And Cindy wants us to believe she was just thrilled with ICA being pregnant and they went right out and bought baby furniture and she threw her a shower? I don't ever remember hearing anything about ICA having a baby shower, anyone know if she really did?

I think it would be perfectly normal for CA and GA to be somewhat upset that ICA is pregnant and also perfectly normal for them to ask who the father is, but they both made it seem like they were both just thrilled as soon as ICA told them and just never questioned anything. I wonder why they want us to think that?

azmama
05-30-2011, 07:58 PM
I was thinking about this too, the only thing I could come up with in my own mind is that they knew they would not get a straight or truthful answer, and so walked on eggshells..trying not to rock the boat, trying not to upset their little princess.

Bizarre I know, but the whole family is bizarre!

LCoastMom
05-30-2011, 08:06 PM
I was watching some clips of testimony today and when CA and GA were talking about the time when ICA was pregnant and none of what they were saying rang true or seemed believable to me. JB had a point about him asking ICA who the father was. What father doesn't ask that??? And even if he deferred to CA to find out, he didn't say that. And Cindy wants us to believe she was just thrilled with ICA being pregnant and they went right out and bought baby furniture and she threw her a shower? I don't ever remember hearing anything about ICA having a baby shower, anyone know if she really did?

I think it would be perfectly normal for CA and GA to be somewhat upset that ICA is pregnant and also perfectly normal for them to ask who the father is, but they both made it seem like they were both just thrilled as soon as ICA told them and just never questioned anything. I wonder why they want us to think that?

They also lied when saying ICA was 6 to 7 months along. (GA said they found out in May to June) CA revealed the actual date to be June 30 2005 - Just 5 weeks and 5 days before Caylee's full term birth.

I do recall talk of the baby shower the week after Caylee was born - CA gave ICA a collage frame with pictures of newborn Caylee. I believe this was a Greta interview way back when.

The bio-father talk is way out there - do they not want to discuss believing Jesse was bio-dad? RG accused CA of trying to deceive Jesse, wanting him to sign the BC without the DNA paternity test.

coloradoteacher
05-30-2011, 08:14 PM
I was watching some clips of testimony today and when CA and GA were talking about the time when ICA was pregnant and none of what they were saying rang true or seemed believable to me. JB had a point about him asking ICA who the father was. What father doesn't ask that??? And even if he deferred to CA to find out, he didn't say that. And Cindy wants us to believe she was just thrilled with ICA being pregnant and they went right out and bought baby furniture and she threw her a shower? I don't ever remember hearing anything about ICA having a baby shower, anyone know if she really did?

I think it would be perfectly normal for CA and GA to be somewhat upset that ICA is pregnant and also perfectly normal for them to ask who the father is, but they both made it seem like they were both just thrilled as soon as ICA told them and just never questioned anything. I wonder why they want us to think that?


I think this can be explained by the fact that living with a sociopath is a lot like walking on a thin line at all times. I have done it. You do not argue with them, you do not upset them, you do not confront them. Even though you would think a normal parent/child relationship would allow for some confrontation, I am sure ICA made sure that her parents knew not to question her and they knew that it would eventually come out so keep the paeace at all costs. It looks absolutely ridiculous from the outside but for those on the inside, you HAVE to. She did this same thing with the graduation- telling them on the day of the party and the kidnapping story as Cindy was calling the police and now her final curtain call, the defense opening statements on the day of her death penalty trial. Par for the ICA course for me and I think very good evidence of her sociopathy.

Quiche
05-30-2011, 08:25 PM
Shoot, the defense says KC was taught to lie, and I say the Anthony's were programmed to look away. KC's like a devilish dictator, a despot-- she's a budding psychopath. So, do they press an issue, no, they wait until it can be a "happy" thing.

We've all seen them react to her, it's incredible-- they're afraid of her. jmo

NORCALGRL
05-30-2011, 08:45 PM
This is what I have believed too. I think they just tried to get through each day or week without Casey throwing a fit (I think the one she showed in court was just one of many in her life) and if everyone was "getting along" they weren't going to rock the boat. Cindy and George probably knew Casey was pregnant and had come to terms with it, they just figured that at some point Casey would tell them on her own. I could see Casey wearing baggy clothing up until the wedding and then pick that occasion to wear something that showed her condition; putting her mother in the position of being confronted with it in front of a family and strangers. She knew her mother would not have it out with her in public. She did the same with graduation, wait until there is a party and come clean...I think Casey likes humiliating her parents.

allycat1208
05-30-2011, 08:50 PM
I remember thinking also that it was odd that both CA and GA were both so elated of KC's pregnancy. I can only think both CA and GA gave answers in their testimony to the effect that they were happy for KC so it would not make it appear that Caylee was unwanted by either of GA or CA and Casey herself. If either of CA or GA seemed like they did not want Caylee it would give reason to also think that Casey would feel pressured by her parents to feel the same way.

Quiche
05-30-2011, 08:55 PM
This is what I have believed too. I think they just tried to get through each day or week without Casey throwing a fit (I think the one she showed in court was just one of many in her life) and if everyone was "getting along" they weren't going to rock the boat. Cindy and George probably knew Casey was pregnant and had come to terms with it, they just figured that at some point Casey would tell them on her own. I could see Casey wearing baggy clothing up until the wedding and then pick that occasion to wear something that showed her condition; putting her mother in the position of being confronted with it in front of a family and strangers. She knew her mother would not have it out with her in public. She did the same with graduation, wait until there is a party and come clean...I think Casey likes humiliating her parents.

This ^^

And, no one can say that George and Cindy didn't go all out for Caylee... I think she was a chance for joy, and unfortunately, that may indeed have been part of KC's motive. :mad:

shgrbkr
05-30-2011, 09:20 PM
In all honesty, I have to admit that when I got pregnant at age 19, my dad didn't ask me who the father was. I mean, yes I was in a "relationship" but we didn't really communicate like that, so I can see GA not asking her but sorta leaving it up to CA. Just my personal experience.

epiphany
05-30-2011, 09:35 PM
CA denying the pregnancy put a stop to folks wanting to talk about it. After asking and her saying no, what else is there to say? I mean, when your looking at that belly, and they are denying it. Seriously? Polite manners, you just ignore the situation and talk about something else.

CA knew her daughter was prego. She just didn't want to talk about it.

Exactly and IMO, Cindy did not owe her brother or anyone else [save her husband] an explanation or acknowledgement of her daughter's obvious pregnancy.

tasylshari
05-30-2011, 09:51 PM
the pregnancy....along with everything else ICA was allowed to get away with during her lifetime....was just another one of those "things" that was easier to simply accept/tolerate/ignore/wash away/forget/walk away from and not bother DEALING WITH for GA and CA.

Fight or flight - - - and the A's consistantly and constantly chose the latter. Too bad for Caylee in the end as they are sadly reaping that which they sowed. Poor Caylee was Inmate Casey Anthony's innocent, beautiful pawn.

ICA always (!!!!!) got her way UNTIL July 15th that is.

Hisimage
05-30-2011, 09:57 PM
I think ICA could and would make life just miserable if she wanted. Because of this I think Cindy did what she could to soften the blow for everyone involved. I think Cindy would tiptoe around until she had enough, would blow and then once again back down. She was probably afraid ICA would do something drastic if she called her out on the pregnancy so she went a long for a while.

ZsaZsa
05-30-2011, 10:06 PM
I was watching some clips of testimony today and when CA and GA were talking about the time when ICA was pregnant and none of what they were saying rang true or seemed believable to me. JB had a point about him asking ICA who the father was. What father doesn't ask that??? And even if he deferred to CA to find out, he didn't say that. And Cindy wants us to believe she was just thrilled with ICA being pregnant and they went right out and bought baby furniture and she threw her a shower? I don't ever remember hearing anything about ICA having a baby shower, anyone know if she really did?

I think it would be perfectly normal for CA and GA to be somewhat upset that ICA is pregnant and also perfectly normal for them to ask who the father is, but they both made it seem like they were both just thrilled as soon as ICA told them and just never questioned anything. I wonder why they want us to think that?

Did not ring true to me either. When first told that she was pregnant I just don't see them as being elated. Shocked or a little surprised at least,and a bit worried would be a normal reaction. What parents of a single girl with a minimum wage job and few prospects think that an unplanned pregnancy is a good development for her or the coming child?

ZsaZsa
05-30-2011, 10:08 PM
In all honesty, I have to admit that when I got pregnant at age 19, my dad didn't ask me who the father was. I mean, yes I was in a "relationship" but we didn't really communicate like that, so I can see GA not asking her but sorta leaving it up to CA. Just my personal experience.

That's true- those things are women talk, but CA must have asked..

Wise Old Owl
05-30-2011, 10:10 PM
That's true- those things are women talk, but CA must have asked..
ITA especially since CA said on the stand that her and ICA would exchange "personal information" concerning each other's "cycle". How could you be THAT close to your daughter and then NOT ASK about the father? KWIM?

darcedarce
05-30-2011, 10:17 PM
Did not ring true to me either. When first told that she was pregnant I just don't see them as being elated. Shocked or a little surprised at least,and a bit worried would be a normal reaction. What parents of a single girl with a minimum wage job and few prospects think that an unplanned pregnancy is a good development for her or the coming child?

I actually do know of some, I even had one friend in high school whose mom wanted her to have a baby so badly. She wanted a grandchild.

passionflower
05-30-2011, 10:20 PM
ITA especially since CA said on the stand that her and ICA would exchange "personal information" concerning each other's "cycle". How could you be THAT close to your daughter and then NOT ASK about the father? KWIM?


EXACTLY!!!:banghead:

Pink Panther
05-30-2011, 10:21 PM
The family is completely dysfunctional and there is no way around it. We have spent countless hours here in disbelief about their bizarre behaviors, actions and decisions and lies. Definitely lots of weird stuff here. Stuff that JB will bring up to try and explain what KC did.

I don't think it's a justification for KC murdering her daughter but he is a Defence lawyer and that is the only chance she has.

moo

ZsaZsa
05-30-2011, 10:23 PM
I actually do know of some, I even had one friend in high school whose mom wanted her to have a baby so badly. She wanted a grandchild.

What did the grandchild want? A single mother still in HS? :banghead:

Pink Panther
05-30-2011, 10:27 PM
What did the grandchild want? A single mother still in HS? :banghead:

Probably control. Something CA probably wanted as well...

TripleA
05-30-2011, 10:41 PM
I am sure it has been covered, but there is no way that Casey did not know. Caylee would have been dancing in utero at 7 months. By that time in my pregnancy I could see my wee one moving. You just can't mistake a foot or elbow jamming you from the inside as "gas" and/or "bloating".

ZsaZsa
05-30-2011, 10:43 PM
Probably control. Something CA probably wanted as well...

No, I mean what did the grandchild want? A loving home with two committed parents, or a single HS student mother with an airhead grandmother? No one asked the poor kid .... :innocent:

panthera
05-30-2011, 10:52 PM
ITA especially since CA said on the stand that her and ICA would exchange "personal information" concerning each other's "cycle". How could you be THAT close to your daughter and then NOT ASK about the father? KWIM?

Or how would someone who is a registered nurse mistake pregnancy for Casey working at a sedentary job and gaining weight? It isn't the same "weight gain" at all! Also, many young people have jobs where there isn't much exercise but find other ways not to gain weight, such as going to the gym, etc. In other words, the explanation didn't sound believable.

MOO

darcedarce
05-30-2011, 10:58 PM
What did the grandchild want? A single mother still in HS? :banghead:

Isn't it ridiculous? We thought so, even as high schoolers.

kaRN
05-30-2011, 10:58 PM
Only Casey wanted to keep this pregancy a secret. She did not admit it to anyone until it was obvious.

Laney

She didn't want to deal with it at all IMO. I'm convinced that if nobody had noticed, the newborn baby would have been abandoned double wrapped in garbage bags and tossed into the woods off suburban.
I find it hard to believe that after the wedding and being questioned by the family, CA would have called the whole family back right away to announce their joyful news due in 5 short weeks. I have sons ICA's age, not daughters but I'm not sure that an unplanned pregnancy in a 19yo HS dropout announced a few weeks before the due date wouldn't be considered immediately joyful. The joy would come with the delivery, not with the immediate situation.
Makes you wonder what dreams the A's had for Casey growing up.

txsvicki
05-30-2011, 11:27 PM
Has there ever been any talk from Casey's friends who might have suspected she was pregnant? All the criticism has been on the parents for not noticing, but what about her friends and coworkers. What did she tell them or say to their questions? I agree with the other poster that Casey probably wore baggy shirts for about a month after she started showing. It's odd that Cindy finally thought something the day of the wedding and then Casey claims to have found out for sure on the day of the Grandparents' wedding anniversary. Either she does like to upset her Mom on happy importants days or she waits until the last minute when she can't hide things any longer. Hopefully we will find out if Casey was secretly seeing an OB or getting any prenatal care before 7 months pregnant. As far as Cindy being happy, only a monster would make a pregnant daughter feel horrible about it or that the baby wasn't wanted.

LCoastMom
05-31-2011, 12:37 AM
Has there ever been any talk from Casey's friends who might have suspected she was pregnant? All the criticism has been on the parents for not noticing, but what about her friends and coworkers. What did she tell them or say to their questions? I agree with the other poster that Casey probably wore baggy shirts for about a month after she started showing. It's odd that Cindy finally thought something the day of the wedding and then Casey claims to have found out for sure on the day of the Grandparents' wedding anniversary. Either she does like to upset her Mom on happy importants days or she waits until the last minute when she can't hide things any longer. Hopefully we will find out if Casey was secretly seeing an OB or getting any prenatal care before 7 months pregnant. As far as Cindy being happy, only a monster would make a pregnant daughter feel horrible about it or that the baby wasn't wanted.

BBM - Interesting question, IIRC ICA's former employer said she was given a job working in personnel(?) because of her pregnancy which makes me wonder when she told Kodak/Colorvision about her "condition" vs CA's claim ICA was putting on weight from her sedentary position working in personnel!

RoseTree
05-31-2011, 01:00 AM
I am sure it has been covered, but there is no way that Casey did not know. Caylee would have been dancing in utero at 7 months. By that time in my pregnancy I could see my wee one moving. You just can't mistake a foot or elbow jamming you from the inside as "gas" and/or "bloating".


There is no way she didn't know. Didn't she given an explanation for it like a growth or something? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Plus, she garnished her baby bump by tying the cardigan at her biggest spot. I don't bring attention to my fat, and neither would she, I'm quite sure, if she had any.

DairyGirl
05-31-2011, 01:04 AM
Has there ever been any talk from Casey's friends who might have suspected she was pregnant? All the criticism has been on the parents for not noticing, but what about her friends and coworkers. What did she tell them or say to their questions? I agree with the other poster that Casey probably wore baggy shirts for about a month after she started showing. It's odd that Cindy finally thought something the day of the wedding and then Casey claims to have found out for sure on the day of the Grandparents' wedding anniversary. Either she does like to upset her Mom on happy importants days or she waits until the last minute when she can't hide things any longer. Hopefully we will find out if Casey was secretly seeing an OB or getting any prenatal care before 7 months pregnant. As far as Cindy being happy, only a monster would make a pregnant daughter feel horrible about it or that the baby wasn't wanted.

I don't remember exactly but didn't she talk to Kiomarie when she was about 5 months pregnant about adoption? When she said that her mother would never allow it? And Kiomarie offered to adopt the baby?

DairyGirl
05-31-2011, 01:06 AM
I have a 19 year old daughter who is very slender. Not only do I know her cycle (CA said they were on the same cycle, too) but I could tell if she put on a few pounds, especially in the stomach. I'm sorry, but there is a difference between water weight and pregnancy weight. And CA was a nurse. She didn't see it because she didn't want to see it. Her denial system seems to have always been strong.

txsvicki
05-31-2011, 01:08 AM
Cindy says the two were on the same cycle and Casey had always had female issues, that the two would "sometimes" laugh and compare their bloating to looking pregnant. Wonder if there could have been a few other pregnancies that didn't make it over 4-6 months over the years instead of being the bloating.

NORCALGRL
05-31-2011, 01:22 AM
Is it possible that the A's assumed that JG was the father (I can't remember all the details of that time period) and didn't question it until JG requested a paternity test? By that time Caylee was born and with the excitement and love they had for the baby they just accepted any other story KC fabricated?

lyrasong
05-31-2011, 01:58 AM
Did not ring true to me either. When first told that she was pregnant I just don't see them as being elated. Shocked or a little surprised at least,and a bit worried would be a normal reaction. What parents of a single girl with a minimum wage job and few prospects think that an unplanned pregnancy is a good development for her or the coming child?

With much respect, I think that Cindy looked for little bits of sunshine in her life anywhere she could. Her marriage with George was rocky at best. Casey was troubled to say the least and from what little we know from discovery, Cindy covered for her time and time again. When she found out that Casey was pregnant, I believe that she really was elated. Maybe she thought that this would finally make Casey grow up? I also believe that she thought this would be a second chance in a way, a literal new beginning.

On the pregnancy itself, I had a harp teacher who was tiny. When she was pregnant with her first baby, she did not show at all until a few weeks before she delivered. In fact, she could wear her regular clothes throughout most of her pregnancy. She was healthy, gained the appropriate weight, etc... I have 4 children and was obviously pregnant with each of them. When I was a 15, a friend of mine became pregnant and hid it from her family until she went into labor.

Now, in the wedding picture, I can clearly see that Casey is pregnant, but maybe she had just recently begun to show, I don't know. Maybe they just didn't want to announce anything at the wedding, but perhaps they should have chosen a different dress...:waitasec:

I think in the coming weeks we'll find out more about the dysfunction and family dynamics that will also clarify the pregnancy denial. At least that is what I'm hoping.

Skully
05-31-2011, 07:12 AM
It is entirely possible to hid a pregnancy up to 7 months from family members if you dress right and say the right things. My next door neighbor did it. She was not as thin as KC at the time, but she hid it up to the point of going into labor and knocking on her mom's bedroom door to say she was having a baby. Can you imagine how that mom felt????? We saw the ambulance that night and had no idea she was in labor, we thought the mom was sick. This girl was 16 yrs old. Her mom did the same thing CA did after the shock, she got her home ready to bring the baby home. What else do you do? I also don't think CA was going to say she was angry about Caylee coming into the world after losing her in the most horrible way. In her mind this is what happened and I hope it is the way it happened. She had to make phone calls and do what she had to do, Caylee was coming and I bet she was the Sun Shine in her and GA's life when she did.

Irish_Eyes
06-09-2011, 01:33 AM
Oddly enough, reading through the computer forensics thread made me think of something: It was briefly discussed there about KC being put on light duty for a period of time during her employment at Colorvision, (I'm assuming due to her pregnancy?) If so, do we know when this "light duty" began? Also, do we know when any of her Universal coworkers found out/noticed/suspected that she was pregnant? I know CA said she barely showed until mid/late June, interesting to know whether coworkers noticed or were told earlier by ICA?

Melanie
06-28-2011, 01:40 AM
I'm having a hard time digesting Cindy Anthony's testimony that Caylee arrived a month early.

Cindy says the shower was after Caylee was born because she was born a month early!

1. Jose Baez asks Cindy about attending her brotherís wedding on June 7, 2005 and he shows Cindy Anthony a photo of her and Casey taken at the wedding reception, and although Casey looks pregnant in the photo, Cindy says she did not believe at her brotherís wedding that Casey was pregnant.

2. Casey came to CA's work on June 30, 2005 and told CA that she was 7 months pregnant.

3. Caylee Marie born August 9, 2005

June 30 - August 9 (2005) = 41 days. We're supposed to believe Caylee Marie was due in early September (or about 70 days after telling CA).

I don't believe this to be true. 1 - Caylee looks very pregnant in the wedding photo.

Also, look at ICA holding Caylee on August 9, 2005. Does this look like a premmie to you? Caylee weighed 7 Lbs and 6 oz. My son was born full term at 8 pounds and I'm a lot bigger than Casey is. My DH is also 6'1.

If Caylee was really premature, and a lot of growing happens during that last month, she could have had a 9 pound baby.

IMHO I think Cindy was telling porkie pies on the stand.

Thoughts? Mods, if this has been discussed ad naseum already, feel free to delete.

Thanks.

Melanie

17248

17249

miabellamoure
06-28-2011, 01:47 AM
Caylee was no way a preemie except, in CA's imagination...:floorlaugh:

skip.laurent
06-28-2011, 01:50 AM
I think the premature thing came up because 'originally' JG was supposedly the father, but then his dad made him get a paternity test since Caylee didn't look premature? I thought the story changed after it was found out that JG was not Caylee's father?

It's so much easier to keep track of the truth... I wonder if KC even knows it at this point!

krisskross
06-28-2011, 01:52 AM
If ICA was claiming Jesse to be the father, it figures she would have lied about her due date. She and Jesse didn't go out till start of January 2005. Also Cindy said during testimony that ICA told her she had gone to the Doctors a few days before she told her mother she was pregnant.

azwriter
06-28-2011, 01:59 AM
And yet...I fail to understand why Cindy would claim Caylee was a preemie, born a full month early. Why state that?

My own son was five weeks early. He weighed just 6 pounds at birth and was as yellow as a buttercup from jaundice a usual condition of an early birth and he was covered with a thin layer of dark hair on much of his body.

But, again: what purpose does it serve to say the baby was early? It wasn't as if she was married and they had to explain away why nine months hadn't gone by from her wedding date, as so many families foolishly might make up to cover being pregnant pre-wedding.

I'll just never understand that woman.
jmo

Misfitdolly
06-28-2011, 02:09 AM
If she was a month premature at 7lbs 6oz she probably would have been over 10lbs full term. My twins were exactly 4 weeks premature and I had steroid shots and drank high protein shakes to try to help them grow faster (and help their lungs develop) due to pre-term labor with them, and with my previous pregnancies. They were 6lbs and 6lbs 11oz and my doctor said they would have been over 9lbs had I gone 4 more weeks. Of course there is such a huge variation in what is considered to be normal birth weights but 10lb babies are fairly rare and especially rare in such a small person such as Casey and remember, she had no pre-natal care until at least 7 months. Not to say it is impossible for her to have such a large baby but it would certainly be quite rare. I really doubt that it is the truth.

azwriter
06-28-2011, 02:11 AM
If ICA was claiming Jesse to be the father, it figures she would have lied about her due date. She and Jesse didn't go out till start of January 2005. Also Cindy said during testimony that ICA told her she had gone to the Doctors a few days before she told her mother she was pregnant.

Thanks Krisskross and Skip, I posted before I read your posts. The idea of passing off Caylee as Jessie's baby makes sense for claiming the baby was early.

I can always count on WS members to step in and "clear" it up.

azwriter

krisskross
06-28-2011, 02:11 AM
And yet...I fail to understand why Cindy would claim Caylee was a preemie, born a full month early. Why state that?

My own son was five weeks early. He weighed just 6 pounds at birth and was as yellow as a buttercup from jaundice a usual condition of an early birth and he was covered with a thin layer of dark hair on much of his body.

But, again: what purpose does it serve to say the baby was early? It wasn't as if she was married and they had to explain away why nine months hadn't gone by from her wedding date, as so many families foolishly might make up to cover being pregnant pre-wedding.

I'll just never understand that woman.
jmo


For Cindy Anthony it's preferable to facing the reality that her daughter would actually try and trap Jesse.
I'm sure the real father was either some transient one night stand, maybe even a tourist or some guy who totally rejected her.

IIRC ICA and Jesse were not love's young dream, they had a couple of dates only, then months later, he got a text telling him he was going to be a daddy. After Caylee was born and with the full knowledge Caylee was not his child, their relationship blossomed. :waitasec:

kantoo
06-28-2011, 02:12 AM
I don't know what the hospitals do nowdays, but when i had my baby early 19 years ago, they did some test and told me exactly how early they thought she was. Per my previous due date, she was a month early. Per their test 5 weeks, 3 days.

Yes this has been discussed. Everyone's babies weigh differently at different times (mine was just short of 7 lbs). The biggest question, as i have seen addressed here, would be why would you care WHEN an unmarried woman was having a child?? It would have to fit with WHO she wanted to say the father was. At least i can't think of another reason. jmo

ETA: just to address the 10 lb baby post above, my MIL weighs 110 pounds and is 5 foot 2 inches...and she had 3 babies, all around 10 pounders....i know....ugh.....but just to point out the variance in babies, parents sizes, term of gestation, etc.

txsvicki
06-28-2011, 02:15 AM
Casey lied about being pregnant when she first started showing, she lied to Jesse about paternity, she lied about the daddy, so she would most likely lie about how far along she was as well. A few things I noted during Cindy's testimony were:
She said she'd suspected pregnancy earlier but Casey denied
She admitted that monthly irregularity did not begin until Casey got pregnant(another lie of Caseys?)
She said she wasn't truly suspicious of pregnancy UNTIL the day of the wedding (Casey going around in baggy clothes?)
She said that Casey found out that she was pregnant after the wedding, then corrected herself saying, that's when Casey SAYS she found out

miss plum
06-28-2011, 02:22 AM
JB's opening statements have ICA seven months pregnant in June and giving birth in August, so this latest detour off the broad highway of truth must be news to him. I'm sure he'll deal with it though, he is on better than nodding terms with mendacity.

Zoe Bogart
06-28-2011, 02:39 AM
Since Casey told no one (or so we're told) until near the end, and she's a known liar, my thought is that she told everyone a bit later so she could trick some guy into thinking he was the father (think Jesse) or any guy. Also a lie could have covered the father's true identity and/or she was probably covering for something her mother would have be able to figure out and blown a fuse over. "You were with HIM!!!"

A friend did the same thing (except in reverse), trying to make her family think the father was her steady boyfriend rather than the fling she enjoyed on the side a few times. It was found out when she gave birth by induced later at her mother's insistence because she was "overdue". After doing an exam of the baby, the obstetrician and the pediatrician broke the news to the new mommy and grandmother. Her baby was premature.

I'm thinking Casey gave the doctor the wrong information, and insisted it couldn't have been before a certain month when she got pregnant because she insisted was a still virgin until then (cough, cough). What was the doctor going to do, argue with both Casey and Cindy? It was probably easier to let them believe what they wanted, while subtly telling them to be prepared, and they didn't listen.

Both of my children were calculated a month early by my doctor even though I told him repeatedly he was wrong. When "his" due date came and went, and the babies weren't "in position", he concurred I had the more accurate dates. I'll never forget the time my husband and I went to see his uncle's boat at a marina a good distance from our home. Uncle said, "When's the baby due?". I answered, "Today". You should have seen the shock on his face, probably with visions of a crazy woman going into labor on the lake shore. :D It was my second pregnancy and I knew I wasn't ready. Babe came three weeks later.

ETA: Looks like the general consensus here is that Casey lied, covered up the true date of conception, and tried to "make it fit" that Jesse was the daddy. Cindy just went along with it, and even though she now knows the truth, refuses to admit it to anyone. Surprise, surprise!

zoomom
06-28-2011, 02:42 AM
Right-o.

And we're all stupid and we all fell off a turnip truck last night.........

Melanie
06-28-2011, 02:44 AM
If ICA was claiming Jesse to be the father, it figures she would have lied about her due date. She and Jesse didn't go out till start of January 2005. Also Cindy said during testimony that ICA told her she had gone to the Doctors a few days before she told her mother she was pregnant.

he he -- the math still wouldn't add up. I think Casey got preggers in 11/04, and was 1 month pregnant around 12/04 or 2 months preggers when she met Jesse in 1/05.

If she met/had relations with Jesse in 1/05 the would be:

1/05 - Caylee meets Jesse (let's assume she gets pregnant straight away).
2/05 1 month (4 weeks)
3/05 2 months (8 weeks)
4/05 3 months (12 weeks)
5/05 4 months (16 weeks)
6/05 5 months (20 weeks) Tells Mom; appears 7 months @ wedding (not 5)
7/05 6 months (24 weeks)
8/05 7 months (28 weeks) Caylee born (full term IMHO)
9/05 8 months (32 weeks)
10/05 9 months (36 weeks)
11/05 10 months (40 weeks)

The average pregnancy is really 10 months depending on the number of weeks per month (or an average of 9.5 months give or take).

So she really may have been pregnant in 11/04 to have Caylee born on 8/9/05 -- assuming she was full term (which I think she was).

I know there's a lot of wiggle room, but there's no way Caylee was Jesse's if they met in January and she had Caylee in August. Nice try for Caysey though! Boy does she lie to everyone!!

Who woulda thunk Cindy was a nurse? She's still way off in her math ;)

I wonder who ICA was seeing in 11/04? I would hate to even speculate.

MOO

Mel

Melanie
06-28-2011, 02:50 AM
I don't know what the hospitals do nowdays, but when i had my baby early 19 years ago, they did some test and told me exactly how early they thought she was. Per my previous due date, she was a month early. Per their test 5 weeks, 3 days.

Yes this has been discussed. Everyone's babies weigh differently at different times (mine was just short of 7 lbs). The biggest question, as i have seen addressed here, would be why would you care WHEN an unmarried woman was having a child?? It would have to fit with WHO she wanted to say the father was. At least i can't think of another reason. jmo

ETA: just to address the 10 lb baby post above, my MIL weighs 110 pounds and is 5 foot 2 inches...and she had 3 babies, all around 10 pounders....i know....ugh.....but just to point out the variance in babies, parents sizes, term of gestation, etc.

No, no - I really can't be bothered :) The question relates as to why Cindy lied on the stand and the reasoning behind it? Why would Cindy care for that matter - KWIM? This is the first time I have personally heard that Caylee was born a month premature - although Caylee said she was 7 months preggers in June, and had Caylee in August (which would make sense).

I just don't get the lying I guess.

Moo :)

Mel

Never4GetCaylee
06-28-2011, 02:50 AM
I don't understand why this is even an issue. Lee says the baby shower was before Caylee was born, Cindy says the shower was after Caylee is born. Why is there a descrepancy over such a thing? And if one of them is remembering wrong (probably Lee since Cindy is taking her super memory pills)
why does it matter at all in this trial?

Melanie
06-28-2011, 02:57 AM
I don't understand why this is even an issue. Lee says the baby shower was before Caylee was born, Cindy says the shower was after Caylee is born. Why is there a descrepancy over such a thing? And if one of them is remembering wrong (probably Lee since Cindy is taking her super memory pills)
why does it matter at all in this trial?

Since Jose was tossing around pregnant piccies, and all the testimony about the birth (George was there, poor Lee was left out), the testimony about if she was pregnant and when she told her parents, etc., goes to the dirty little secrets Jose bombarded us in his OS. ICA's pregnancy has been quite the focal point of the trial which is why I brought it up.

Moo please and thanks!

Mel

RANCH
06-28-2011, 02:58 AM
No, no - I really can't be bothered :) The question relates as to why Cindy lied on the stand and the reasoning behind it? Why would Cindy care for that matter - KWIM? This is the first time I have personally heard that Caylee was born a month premature - although Caylee said she was 7 months preggers in June, and had Caylee in August (which would make sense).

I just don't get the lying I guess.

Moo :)

Mel

I was curious myself when I heard CA say that Caylee was premature.I never heard that before. Do you know when her due date was. I don't.

Melanie
06-28-2011, 03:07 AM
I was curious myself when I heard CA say that Caylee was premature.I never heard that before. Do you know when her due date was. I don't.

Cindy said on the stand that the due date was "early September", and that Caylee was born a month early. So prolly around 9/9 is when Cindy "thinks" Caylee should have been born - or was told when Caylee should have been born by Casey. But we know Casey never lies ;)

MOO

Mel

RANCH
06-28-2011, 03:17 AM
Cindy said on the stand that the due date was "early September", and that Caylee was born a month early. So prolly around 9/9 is when Cindy "thinks" Caylee should have been born - or was told when Caylee should have been born by Casey. But we know Casey never lies ;)

MOO

Mel

Mel. I thought that a doctor could say to degree of certainty when a child would be born to term. How come the Anthony family didn't have a due date for Caylee. That should tell use whether she was premature or not.I thought that ICA did get some kind of prenatal care before Caylee's birth.

Melanie
06-28-2011, 03:32 AM
Mel. I thought that a doctor could say to degree of certainty when a child would be born to term. How come the Anthony family didn't have a due date for Caylee. That should tell use whether she was premature or not.I thought that ICA did get some kind of prenatal care before Caylee's birth.

Great question, but I don't have the answer. I would assume due to HIPPA laws that information would not be released to the general public.

Thanks!

Mel

barbtries
06-28-2011, 03:37 AM
No, no - I really can't be bothered :) The question relates as to why Cindy lied on the stand and the reasoning behind it? Why would Cindy care for that matter - KWIM? This is the first time I have personally heard that Caylee was born a month premature - although Caylee said she was 7 months preggers in June, and had Caylee in August (which would make sense).

I just don't get the lying I guess.

Moo :)

Mel

cause baby showers are supposed to happen BEFORE the baby's born, not after. it beats admitting that the family was not happy about the pregnancy until the little girl was born and stole their hearts. CA cares a lot about what people think. though why still at this point, you got me.

a friend of mine - long time ago now - was pregnant. she didn't tell her family until she was about 6 months along. catholic family. mom's first reaction was, you have to have an abortion. after that she shamed her daughter every chance she got. had my friend convinced that the only choice was adoption. none of the neighbors knew my friend was pregnant.

then surprise! identical twins were born. next thing you know this is the greatest event in the history of humankind. all is forgiven, we just love these babies so much and we are so happy they were born. what went on during the pregnancy never to be mentioned again. though she did all she could to make her daughter's life a living hell in that time.

i happened to be pregnant at the same time and i was an immoral harlot until the twins were born. then my son and i were just the greatest. i will never forget that. my mom wasn't pleased that i was having a baby "out of wedlock" but she never pretended that she wasn't going to love her grandchild.

so i think CA propagates this particular lie because it covers for the baby shower coming after the birth of the baby.

dani
06-28-2011, 05:06 AM
cause baby showers are supposed to happen BEFORE the baby's born, not after. it beats admitting that the family was not happy about the pregnancy until the little girl was born and stole their hearts. CA cares a lot about what people think. though why still at this point, you got me.

a friend of mine - long time ago now - was pregnant. she didn't tell her family until she was about 6 months along. catholic family. mom's first reaction was, you have to have an abortion. after that she shamed her daughter every chance she got. had my friend convinced that the only choice was adoption. none of the neighbors knew my friend was pregnant.

then surprise! identical twins were born. next thing you know this is the greatest event in the history of humankind. all is forgiven, we just love these babies so much and we are so happy they were born. what went on during the pregnancy never to be mentioned again. though she did all she could to make her daughter's life a living hell in that time.

i happened to be pregnant at the same time and i was an immoral harlot until the twins were born. then my son and i were just the greatest. i will never forget that. my mom wasn't pleased that i was having a baby "out of wedlock" but she never pretended that she wasn't going to love her grandchild.

so i think CA propagates this particular lie because it covers for the baby shower coming after the birth of the baby.

BBM
You are spot on. Public perception of the Anthony family is paramount to Cindy. She will spend the rest of her life making excuses for what her daughter did to her granddaughter.

badhorsie
06-28-2011, 05:27 AM
Just to say my daughter was born by C section 3 weeks early, she weighed 9 lbs 4 oz. We were both checked medically for diabetes and other things, t'was a fluke.

IMO this was a ICA lie though

chizap
06-28-2011, 05:45 AM
I Wonder where ? ICA gets it from??:justice:

Justin Tyme
06-28-2011, 06:27 AM
Casey lied about being pregnant when she first started showing, she lied to Jesse about paternity, she lied about the daddy, so she would most likely lie about how far along she was as well. A few things I noted during Cindy's testimony were:
She said she'd suspected pregnancy earlier but Casey denied
She admitted that monthly irregularity did not begin until Casey got pregnant(another lie of Caseys?)
She said she wasn't truly suspicious of pregnancy UNTIL the day of the wedding (Casey going around in baggy clothes?)
She said that Casey found out that she was pregnant after the wedding, then corrected herself saying, that's when Casey SAYS she found out

Excuse me but have we been watching the same trial? Maybe I'm missing something.

You said that CA said that she suspected pregnancy earlier but Casey denied.
*Ca said on stand that she never suspected that ICA was pregnant. She thought that she was just bloating just as she does during her monthly cycle.

You said that she admitted that monthly irregularity did not begin until Casey got pregnant.
*CA said on the stand that ICA monthly cycles were always irregular.

You said that she said she wasn't truly suspicious of pregnancy UNTIL the day of the wedding
* CA said on the stand that she wasn't suspicious of pregnancy even at the day of the wedding, her brother Rick was and she still denied. (If you looked at the wedding photos her clothes weren't baggy) in fact her dress appeared very tight.

What threw me off with CA's testimony was, I thought that she said at one time that she found out that ICA was pregnant (which was after the wedding) ICA came to her office and they went out to CA's car and that's when ICA told her.
But somehow I'm thinking that I also heard her say the she went with ICA for her first appointment, which would have been the time that they found out that ICA was pregnant. Perhaps I misunderstood her on this as I can't recall when I thought that she said this. So I may be wrong on this last bit.

Of course with all of the stories that she's told one has to wonder where the (truth lies). <--truth / lies

armywife210
06-28-2011, 06:50 AM
My girls were both born 6 weeks early and both weighed 4 1/2 lbs at birth... getting down to 4 lb even before gaining weight again. Most babies that are premature are small. However my friends little boy was born a month early and My Sweet Little Man (that's what I call him) weighed 7 lbs. SOOOO /shrugs. That being said I tend to believe the complete opposite of what the Anthony's say...best way to ensure accurate info. heh

Ms.Heather
06-28-2011, 07:00 AM
CA never stated Caylee was a premie. She said that she was born a month early, and in my mind and from what I learned in "Decode Anthony Speak" I took it to mean... "Well, Casey lied to us about when Caylee was due which is why the baby shower was after the fact that Caylee Marie was already in this world"

This family needs to start keeping track of their lies.

PaulaF513
06-28-2011, 07:19 AM
I think she lied because she wanted Jesse to believe Caylee could be his child. Fortunately for him, his father made him take the paternity test.

ami
06-28-2011, 07:20 AM
cause baby showers are supposed to happen BEFORE the baby's born, not after. it beats admitting that the family was not happy about the pregnancy until the little girl was born and stole their hearts. CA cares a lot about what people think. though why still at this point, you got me.

a friend of mine - long time ago now - was pregnant. she didn't tell her family until she was about 6 months along. catholic family. mom's first reaction was, you have to have an abortion. after that she shamed her daughter every chance she got. had my friend convinced that the only choice was adoption. none of the neighbors knew my friend was pregnant.

then surprise! identical twins were born. next thing you know this is the greatest event in the history of humankind. all is forgiven, we just love these babies so much and we are so happy they were born. what went on during the pregnancy never to be mentioned again. though she did all she could to make her daughter's life a living hell in that time.

i happened to be pregnant at the same time and i was an immoral harlot until the twins were born. then my son and i were just the greatest. i will never forget that. my mom wasn't pleased that i was having a baby "out of wedlock" but she never pretended that she wasn't going to love her grandchild.

so i think CA propagates this particular lie because it covers for the baby shower coming after the birth of the baby.

I totally agree with this. I was also young and unmarried (and also from a large Catholic family) and my family had no idea how to emotionally handle my pregnancy. I was ostracized by some, heavily guilted, some would avert their eyes from my body, some were passive aggressively angry, some wrote me letters of shock and disapproval - just really didn't know how to handle it. By the time my daughter was 3 and adorable and everyone loved her, every one of my family members would probably deny ever having been angry or ostracizing me during my pregnancy.

My family aren't liars like the Anthony family, but I don't think after the tiny human being is here and loved they can really accurately remember the anger and disapproval they felt when the baby was living just a few inches away in the womb. And they certainly don't want to admit it. Throw in the Anthony denial, dysfunction and lie machine and I can completely see how they would not admit to or talk about the pregnancy outside the family (or even inside), then when lovable baby was born have that "baby shower" as if you've always been proud, then fabricate that this was a preemie to explain why the baby wasn't given her due before she was born.

I think Cindy, like KC, uses a grain of truth in her lies, only in this case her grain of "truth" was just one of KC's lies meant to pin the pregnancy on JG. Even after that's long been dismissed (JG paternity), Cindy still uses the preemie lie to explain, of all things, the oddly timed baby shower.

Also it's kind of funny for Cindy to do that because it implies KC was sleeping with more than one guy around the same time - Jesse Grund AND baby's daddy.

BetteDavisEyes
06-28-2011, 07:35 AM
Cindy is amazingly gifted at rewriting history ;)

Tuffy
06-28-2011, 07:56 AM
I don't understand why this is even an issue. Lee says the baby shower was before Caylee was born, Cindy says the shower was after Caylee is born. Why is there a descrepancy over such a thing? And if one of them is remembering wrong (probably Lee since Cindy is taking her super memory pills)
why does it matter at all in this trial?

BBM:

The problem with all the Anthonys is that not only do they have to try to remember what happened, then they have to try to remember the lies they already told, and then try to keep that straight with the lie they're about to tell.

BetteDavisEyes
06-28-2011, 08:13 AM
Slightly OT: Any thoughts on Caylee's given name? Who do you think named her?

Jorjamay
06-28-2011, 08:15 AM
I don't think she was a premy baby but I think she arrived before her dates when some one goes to the doctors late in pregnancy it is extremely hard estimate the due date and you can be out by quite a few weeks I have seen this a few time with people who don't go to a doctors before the third trimester.

My eldest daughter was born 1 week early and weighed a little over 4lb and could fit nicely in one hand but she was full term and perfect the Nurses used to come down from the baby Unit just to look at her and hold her because she was the small and healthy

charok
06-28-2011, 08:26 AM
my youngest daughter, was due on 4-1-5, but the fool was on me, she didnt arrive until 4-6! she was 7 lb 1 oz..my oldest daughter, was due on 8-16, however on my dr apt on 8-11, he'd peel that membrane, to trigger labor. he was right, the next morn on 8-12, she arrived, and she was 6 lbs 9 oz..she was 21 inches long, little sister/april bday was 19 1/2 " long....how long was caylee? we know she was 7 lbs 6 oz..but what about her length?
i agree w/ others, the pic from uncle ricks wedding yup she looked very last trimester.

LambChop
06-28-2011, 08:30 AM
There are just some lies CA can't let go of. jmo

headndownstream
06-28-2011, 08:47 AM
I just wanted to throw in the fact that I've worked in Labor/Delivery, and though I have no hard statistics, I've observed that a mother's weight or build has little to do with a babies size when they are born. 5 pound babies out of 275 pound mothers, or 10 pound babies out of 115 pound mothers were not unusual.

headndownstream
06-28-2011, 08:50 AM
Slightly OT: Any thoughts on Caylee's given name? Who do you think named her?

Cindy

pip
06-28-2011, 08:53 AM
I don't believe she was premature. Not sure if this is new Cindy lie, an old ICA lie to Cindy, or an old mutual lie they drummed up together to sway belief that JG was the father and perhaps that someone else could NOT have been.. Something stinks though.

Eidetic
06-28-2011, 09:13 AM
No, Caylee was full term. Click on spoiler for several pictures.


http://i51.tinypic.com/ixghgg.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/b8n3pz.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2isv0aa.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2lmwgee.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/vj8tw.jpg

My nephew was born 2 months premature. He weighed 3 pounds, his length was 14 in. These are pictures of my brother and sister in law holding their preemie son who had already been in the hospital for a month. In these pictures he was about at the weight/term Cindy claims Caylee would have been. (remember, he is swaddled in a blanket, he is really so tiny. Barely 4 pounds.) And another reason I know Caylee was full term because they had to give my nephew a special binky that was even smaller than the newborn binky in the first hospital picture of Caylee. Eventually, he made his way up to that binky in the picture.

http://i56.tinypic.com/rbb42o.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/20gzms.jpg

You can see how small his head is in relation to the size of their hands. Now compare that to the pictures of newborn Caylee and head to hand ratio.

barbtries
06-28-2011, 09:20 AM
Slightly OT: Any thoughts on Caylee's given name? Who do you think named her?
an amalgam (right word?) of Casey and Lee. good question about who named her, i know i named all of my children, and my mother named hers. well my only girl was named by her father but that was agreed beforehand. if she'd been a boy i would have named her.

Ambiance
06-28-2011, 09:21 AM
duplicate, sorry

Ambiance
06-28-2011, 09:24 AM
an amalgam (right word?) of Casey and Lee. good question about who named her, i know i named all of my children, and my mother named hers. well my only girl was named by her father but that was agreed beforehand. if she'd been a boy i would have named her.

that just hit me last night - combination of Casey and Lee. Very odd, to say the least.

yosande
06-28-2011, 09:32 AM
I think the premature thing came up because 'originally' JG was supposedly the father, but then his dad made him get a paternity test since Caylee didn't look premature? I thought the story changed after it was found out that JG was not Caylee's father?

It's so much easier to keep track of the truth... I wonder if KC even knows it at this point!

It is my understanding that the further along a woman is, the harder it is to determine the due date. As far along as Casey was at the wedding picture and waiting two more weeks before going to the doctor, along with the notion that Casey lied to her doctor as to when her last period was, she very well may have been able to say she was due in September. However, Cindy is a nurse, so she darn well knows a seven pound six ounce newborn is not a premature newborn. Furthermore, Caylee was never sick according to Casey. Premature babies are more prone to illness, aren't they?

Eidetic
06-28-2011, 09:38 AM
It is my understanding that the further along a woman is, the harder it is to determine the due date. As far along as Casey was at the wedding picture and waiting two more weeks before going to the doctor, along with the notion that Casey lied to her doctor as to when her last period was, she very well may have been able to say she was due in September. However, Cindy is a nurse, so she darn well knows a seven pound six ounce newborn is not a premature newborn. Furthermore, Caylee was never sick according to Casey. Premature babies are more prone to illness, aren't they?


Yes. My nephew I talked about in post #40 still has problems with his immune system and he is 14 months now. He is also a little delayed as far as first tooth, walking etc.

yosande
06-28-2011, 09:39 AM
No, Caylee was full term. Click on spoiler for several pictures.


http://i51.tinypic.com/ixghgg.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/b8n3pz.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2isv0aa.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2lmwgee.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/vj8tw.jpg

My nephew was born 2 months premature. He weighed 3 pounds, his length was 14 in. These are pictures of my brother and sister in law holding their preemie son who had already been in the hospital for a month. In these pictures he was about at the weight/term Cindy claims Caylee would have been. (remember, he is swaddled in a blanket, he is really so tiny. Barely 4 pounds.) And another reason I know Caylee was full term because they had to give my nephew a special binky that was even smaller than the newborn binky in the first hospital picture of Caylee. Eventually, he made his way up to that binky in the picture.

http://i56.tinypic.com/rbb42o.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/20gzms.jpg

You can see how small his head is in relation to the size of their hands. Now compare that to the pictures of newborn Caylee and head to hand ratio.



Imo, Caylee looks well over 8 pounds imo. In the pic of Casey holding Caylee in the hospital, she is so big it's hard to believe Casey survived delivery. jmo

megsy
06-28-2011, 09:41 AM
Did Casey have prenatal care?

DoodleMom
06-28-2011, 09:45 AM
CA never stated Caylee was a premie. She said that she was born a month early, and in my mind and from what I learned in "Decode Anthony Speak" I took it to mean... "Well, Casey lied to us about when Caylee was due which is why the baby shower was after the fact that Caylee Marie was already in this world"

This family needs to start keeping track of their lies.

This is brilliant analysis. Is there a thread that decodes other Anthony speak?

kpalma715
06-28-2011, 10:46 AM
It could be possible she was early or late some babies are big or small. She might of made it seem like Caylee was born early to match up with JG to be the Dad.

On another note, my son was 3 1/2 weeks early and he was 8lbs 8oz. My doctor was amazed on how big he was. Also, I am high risk from previous pre-clampsia, so I had growth measurements bi-weekly to monthly and he always was on target. With my experience my kids were all big and early:

For all my kids: #1 was 3 weeks early 5lbs 7 1/2 oz, #2 3.5 weeks early 8lbs 8oz, #3 2 weeks early 6lbs 7oz, #4 2.5 weeks early 7lbs 3oz, #5 3 weeks early 7lbs 9oz.

Melanie
06-28-2011, 12:26 PM
Imo, Caylee looks well over 8 pounds imo. In the pic of Casey holding Caylee in the hospital, she is so big it's hard to believe Casey survived delivery. jmo

That's what I thought - my goodness ouch! I had an 8 pounder and ended up with a C-section cuz he just wouldn't budge. And I'm a lot bigger frame-wise than Casey (i'm 5'8). Maybe it's the blankie and clothes that gives me the perception that Caylee is bigger?

Thanks to the mods for merging - much appreciated.

Mel

Melanie
06-28-2011, 12:30 PM
Eidetic, thanks for your post and piccies (very sweet). I'm not convinced by Cindy's testimony that Caylee was a month early, or premature, or whatever Anthony speak that is. I can say one thing for sure - I don't expect to ever hear the real truth from any of them. Lee, maybe, but not Casey, Cindy, or George.

Thanks!

Mel

Sclark084
06-28-2011, 12:54 PM
People feel as though this in uncommon, but I have to disagree. This actually happens A lot with teenage pregnancy. I totally can relate to the way Lee felt when he saw Casey. My little sister at 17 hid her pregnancy as well, but then at 5 months...we were all like "what the heck is that a bump?? Is that what we think it is?". She also was so ashamed she tried to lie she was raped. My mom was in a bit of denial as well until my sister officially told her. To make matters worse my sister went into pre-mature labor a month later! So it all happened so fast! I believe Casey was the one hiding the pregnancy, because her moms seems like the type that demands perfection. She was ashamed. This happens a lot more then people think, especially with teen mothers.

LinasK
06-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Slightly OT: Any thoughts on Caylee's given name? Who do you think named her?
Cindy of course!:doh: Combination of Casey & Lee=Caylee, and another Marie- CMA! Clone of her, someone commented, surprised it wasn't George Marie and Lee Marie! LOL!!!