PDA

View Full Version : New Docs Part 2


Pages : 1 [2] 3 4

madeleine
11-27-2008, 11:47 AM
Casey was NOT a child when she had Caylee, she was an adult! She had every right to choose whether she wanted to keep her baby, abort her baby or put her baby up for adoption. Thousands of girls, many much younger than Casey, become moms everyday. Many become very good moms! Casey was young, but she was not a child.

It depends(not talking about Casey now),I know 30years old women who unfortunately are still controlled and manipulated by their parents.:mad:

SeriouslySearching
11-27-2008, 11:48 AM
Hmmm... Did I miss it or was Annie D either not interviewed or they are withholding her interview from the docs?They are withholding her interviews. :waitasec: On the State's witness list, there are 3 with no address information like the others. Annie, Dante, and I can't remember the other one off hand. I thought it was telling, but maybe not.

I do think Annie knows A LOT.

Recovering-Lurker
11-27-2008, 11:48 AM
Hmmm... Did I miss it or was Annie D either not interviewed or they are withholding her interview from the docs?

I am pretty sure her interview is still being withheld. She know something damaging imo. I really want to read it.

bessie
11-27-2008, 11:54 AM
I have a quick point to make about Casey's accusations against her brother and father as well as the motive behind it. It would appear that Casey was always trying to align herself with a man that she believed would "take care" of her.

Now I ask what kind of "mother" would allow her small child with her abusive father and sexually deviant brother? NO, NO, NO!!!

These guys must have wondered about that. For instance when she told that story to TL was it just an excuse for why she couldn't stay with Lee if she couldn't stay with Cindy and George. He wouldn't want Casey and Caylee with him.

Yep! Cinderella Complex. She has low self-esteem, due in large part to being raised by an overbearing mother. By enabling KC all those years, she tightened the apron strings instead of loosening them as parents should to allow children to grow into independent adults. CA wants her children -- and GA, too, for that matter -- to depend on her because she has control issues and a strong need to be needed. As a result, she raised a needy child. She wrecked KC's self-esteem to the point that KC lacked the confidence to achieve anything on her own, and believed that she needed a Prince Charming to rescue her.

Women like this often do make up stories of abuse to invoke sympathy in men they're pursuing. It's interesting to note that no mention was made of the alleged abuse in the interviews with female friends. We only here of it from bf's.

MarleneM
11-27-2008, 12:00 PM
Bolded by me.

I don't believe there is free will when one cannot get out from under, when one does not know any other way. Casey was young when she got pregnant, 17/18, and a girl that young doesn't always know the options.

We don't have any PROOF that CA didn't know she was pregnant, only some silly words like we've been hearing all along.

Untruths, perhaps? I never said Casey had the baby because she wanted to, but I am saying she may very well have been forced to keep it. I was that age once and I wouldn't have had the baiis to go against my family.

A study of family dynamics has shown that certain individuals in families often play certain roles, whether by choice or because they're forced into it. At that point I believe free choice becomes a moot point - there isn't any.

I believe we've all seen CA in action and some have stated she's the same as Casey. Maybe we need to ask ourselves how she got that way?

My opinion only

Now, I have to leave for Thanksgiving dinner. I have the appetizers and they will be PO'd if I don't get there before dinner is served.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

<bolded by me>

Yet you base your entire argument that KC is as big a victim as dead baby Caylee on the words of a PROVEN liar?

Only KC says LA tried to have sex with her, and she said it to a guy she was sleeping with (JG, at least). She probably said it to garner sympathy from JG at some point, perhaps when he challenged her behavior on something. Girls who lie about SA do it for attention or as a deflection of blame for their behavior. KC is a proven habitual liar. It's not hard to conceive KC lying about her own brother based on everything else we know to be true about her.

Listen to KC's first phone call home from jail. Listen to the way she talks to both LA and CA. KC is not a wallflower nor a doormat. She knows exactly how to stand up for herself...even when she's not entitled to put her interests first.

ks1
11-27-2008, 12:02 PM
On a check to CA from LA, think document dump 4 or 5 document 42 it shows another person named on his account. This was a check to CA for a$25 Christmas gift. Does anyone know who this other person is? Just curious as it is not anyone I have heard mentioned before.

Janis396
11-27-2008, 12:04 PM
On a check to CA from LA, think document dump 4 or 5 document 42 it shows another person named on his account. This was a check to CA for a$25 Christmas gift. Does anyone know who this other person is? Just curious as it is not anyone I have heard mentioned before.

I believe that check was from George's parents.

MarleneM
11-27-2008, 12:13 PM
Yep! Cinderella Complex. She has low self-esteem, due in large part to being raised by an overbearing mother. By enabling KC all those years, she tightened the apron strings instead of loosening them as parents should to allow children to grow into independent adults. CA wants her children -- and GA, too, for that matter -- to depend on her because she has control issues and a strong need to be needed. As a result, she raised a needy child. She wrecked KC's self-esteem to the point that KC lacked the confidence to achieve anything on her own, and believed that she needed a Prince Charming to rescue her.

Women like this often do make up stories of abuse to invoke sympathy in men they're pursuing.

It's interesting to note that no mention was made of the alleged abuse in the interviews with female friends. We only here of it from bf's.

Exactly! And that should be pointed out in trial.

*Who* a person confides SA to is the most telling indicator as to the incentive for admission.

jennyb
11-27-2008, 12:18 PM
All this abuse stuff (whether it's true or not) coupled with KC's behavior that points to having experienced abuse - should be miracles to the defense; finally something, anything with teeth in it. And yet JB only has 3 forensic witnesses on his list for trial. I'm wondering if he is not compelled to give his complete list at this time and maybe he'll have all kinds of shrinks and behaviorists when the time comes? It seems like his only hope.

beckaroozie
11-27-2008, 12:18 PM
Oh yeah. I can't wait. Casey or Lee???

If the allegations of sexual abuse by Lee are untrue....maybe he won't be so fast and determined to defend her and we'll get some interesting news soon?

MarleneM
11-27-2008, 12:19 PM
I have a quick point to make about Casey's accusations against her brother and father as well as the motive behind it. It would appear that Casey was always trying to align herself with a man that she believed would "take care" of her.

Now I ask what kind of "mother" would allow her small child with her abusive father and sexually deviant brother? NO, NO, NO!!!

These guys must have wondered about that.

For instance when she told that story to TL was it just an excuse for why she couldn't stay with Lee if she couldn't stay with Cindy and George. He wouldn't want Casey and Caylee with him.

That would be a very plausible excuse for why KC would lie about SA to yet another BF she was trying to keep.

Janis396
11-27-2008, 12:19 PM
You know, after reading all these latest docs, and getting a LOT more information about George and his work (or should I say NON-work) history, I can almost understand why Cindy told him to go to work after they brought the car home from the towyard.

She didn't want him potentially losing ANOTHER job, since it looks like this was his 4th or 5th in the last few years? AND he didn't work for half their marriage? AND while he was sitting at home being financially supported by Cindy, he was running up all kinds of debt with online gambling and nigerian scams?

Although I agree that part of her sending him off to work was so she could do her normal "damage control", I now think part of it was she just didn't want him doing ANYTHING that could put his new job in jeopardy. Since he was finally bringing some money into the house, for a change. JMHO.

jennyb
11-27-2008, 12:20 PM
I think I just answered my own question. The abuse defense means she will have to admit to killing the baby and JB doesn't want to go there. Well, nobody said he has KC's best interests at heart so ...

bessie
11-27-2008, 12:20 PM
She sent it to LE. They didn't solicit it from her. I'm sure she released it with knowledge that it would come out, either on the internet (like so many other things already had) or in court.
I feel so very sorry for the great grandparents on both sides. Those e-mails contain a lot of thoughts that were shared in confidence. Could not have been easy for her to give them up, but she did. That is the behavior of a person who really wants to get to the truth.

jennyb
11-27-2008, 12:22 PM
You know, after reading all these latest docs, and getting a LOT more information about George and his work (or should I say NON-work) history, I can almost understand why Cindy told him to go to work after they brought the car home from the towyard.

She didn't want him potentially losing ANOTHER job, since it looks like this was his 4th or 5th in the last few years? AND he didn't work for half their marriage? AND while he was sitting at home being financially supported by Cindy, he was running up all kinds of debt with online gambling and nigerian scams?

Although I agree that part of her sending him off to work was so she could do her normal "damage control", I now think part of it was she just didn't want him doing ANYTHING that could put his new job in jeopardy. Since he was finally working again. JMHO.

That's definitely occurred to me too and I think I remember he even said in an interview, "it was my new job, etc." But still, how crazy that he would leave? I believe he left for sure, whether it was to go to his job, well... It probably was. Yipes.

jennyb
11-27-2008, 12:23 PM
I feel so very sorry for the great grandparents on both sides. Those e-mails contain a lot of thoughts that were shared in confidence. Could not have been easy for her to give them up, but she did. That is the behavior of a person who really wants to get to the truth.

So then Rick also sent his correspondence with CA directly to LE also?

Meagain
11-27-2008, 12:31 PM
Question - I'm desperately trying to triage the 700 pages right now.

Could anyone steer me to a link in the docs where this George/Lee sex abuse thing comes up? The texts, etc? I'd so most appreciate this. TIA

bessie
11-27-2008, 12:32 PM
So then Rick also sent his correspondence with CA directly to LE also?
I'm not sure, but I suspect he did. We know his mother turned them over voluntarily because of a handwritten note that accompanied them.

Theonly1
11-27-2008, 12:32 PM
After all these BOMBSHELLS hit yesterday Thanksgiving today at the A house must be pretty miserable.

JWG
11-27-2008, 12:33 PM
Interesting that statements from the guys all say they found a stick with a rope tied to it and it sounds like the other end of the rope was buried deep under the ground. The statements all say they returned the next day with shovels to dig until they reached the end of the rope underground. Questions:

1. The statements don't say what was on the end of the rope. They just stop and are signed. They don't even say "after a while we just stopped digging". So they probably reached the end of the rope and for some reason are not including what they found at the end of the rope. Would there be separate statements perhaps indicating what they found that are kept out of the doc dump? It seems like everything should be in one spot.

2. Any guess as to why someone would bury a rope with the end of it sticking out of the ground? The only thing I can think of is: if Caylee's body was buried there, then maybe the rope was down there to make it easier to find the body if necessary at a later time. With the rope going down into the ground it would be easier to find b/c after burying a body, the person burying it would not know EXACTLY where the small body is once dirt is filled in. A general marker (like a stone or stick) wouldn't show exactly where the body is, but certainly a rope leading directly down to the body would show it's location 100%.

I don't see that these statements came from TES searchers. Any ideas? How does the date of the statements (9/12) match up with Tim Miller's announcements calling off the search?

I think it was a false alarm. The first statement indicates the hole was dug by the other witnesses. But it was the hole that made the searcher suspicious. The other searchers were following a buried rope tied to a stick. Seems like a false alarm. It would have been nice to see the police report on the incident, not just the witness staments.

Theonly1
11-27-2008, 12:37 PM
You're right, but he's known all this stuff for months, yet he doles it out to us one tiny, tantalizing morsel at a time. I realize he likes appearing on NG, and that's why he doles out his knowledge so sparingly--and there's nothing wrong with that! It's just that at times I sorta feel like I'm being treated like a chump.

Other than that, I enjoy LP; I think he's fascinating particularly when you consider that he's 70! So this is NOT, repeat NOT, a putdown. I guess if I feel like a chump, it's my fault, not his.

Are you really sure he's 70? Because I met him and I would NOT say he looks 70. Mid-50's is more like it. If he's 70 then he must be sipping from the Fountain of Youth. The man looks better in person that on TV.

bessie
11-27-2008, 12:39 PM
Question - I'm desperately trying to triage the 700 pages right now.

Could anyone steer me to a link in the docs where this George/Lee sex abuse thing comes up? The texts, etc? I'd so most appreciate this. TIA
JG's account is mentioned in Section 1, typewritten p. 48. TL mentions it in his first interview. Don't have time to search for it now. Gotta get this turkey show on the road.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 12:40 PM
Question - I'm desperately trying to triage the 700 pages right now.

Could anyone steer me to a link in the docs where this George/Lee sex abuse thing comes up? The texts, etc? I'd so most appreciate this. TIA

I think the link is posted earlier in this thread. Not sure. I read the docs and didn't see any mention of GA and sexual abuse, but LA was mentioned.

Recovering-Lurker
11-27-2008, 12:41 PM
Question - I'm desperately trying to triage the 700 pages right now.

Could anyone steer me to a link in the docs where this George/Lee sex abuse thing comes up? The texts, etc? I'd so most appreciate this. TIA

IIRC, they were both in the first set. Tony talks about one, and Jess about the other. I will see if I can find out exactly where. And only Lee is talked about in regards to sexual abuse.

EmMomma
11-27-2008, 12:43 PM
Are you really sure he's 70? Because I met him and I would NOT say he looks 70. Mid-50's is more like it. If he's 70 then he must be sipping from the Fountain of Youth. The man looks better in person that on TV.

I believe LP is 69. I was flabbergasted, too. :)

What'sThatClue
11-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by Meagain
Question - I'm desperately trying to triage the 700 pages right now.

Could anyone steer me to a link in the docs where this George/Lee sex abuse thing comes up? The texts, etc? I'd so most appreciate this. TIA

I think the link is posted earlier in this thread. Not sure. I read the docs and didn't see any mention of GA and sexual abuse, but LA was mentioned.

Here, third paragraph from the bottom mentions GA abuse. I think there's another place too, but can't remember where.


http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/112608discoverysettwo/1/lg/Anthony_pgs_2321-2400_R_Page_03.htm

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Happy Thanksgiving!

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but did anyone catch where LP apparently was present when CA and KC were trying to tell one of the detectives that JG killed Caylee and placed her body in the trunk of the car? I know CA is trying to pin this on JG, but I didn't realize she had stated that he killed Caylee. What about her whole "Caylee is alive" story?

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 12:46 PM
Here, third paragraph from the bottom mentions GA abuse. I think there's another place too, but can't remember where.


http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/112608discoverysettwo/1/lg/Anthony_pgs_2321-2400_R_Page_03.htm

Thanks. My eyes are about to give out after reading so much. :)

Theonly1
11-27-2008, 12:54 PM
Starting on page 3037 to about 3044 there are several suspicious incident reports describing a TES search that found what appeared to be a shallow grave off Suburban Drive. Cannot find more information. I find it interesting that this particular incident is included in the document dump.

As do I. It is almost the most fascinating set of pages in the entire document (for what it does not say!). By the way, it was NOT a TES search! TES doesn't allow underage folks to search so I think this was a private party.

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 01:06 PM
Casey was NOT a child when she had Caylee, she was an adult! She had every right to choose whether she wanted to keep her baby, abort her baby or put her baby up for adoption. Thousands of girls, many much younger than Casey, become moms everyday. Many become very good moms! Casey was young, but she was not a child.

Thank you. Level of maturity aside, Casey had the right to make adult decisions and instead chose to do what many unfit parents do. Keep the baby because it's cute, it offers lots of love to them and it makes them feel needed. Sorta like a pet. And like every immature person that gets a new pet, what happened when the novelty wore off? Casey got rid of her daughter. It wouldn't be excuseable if she were a 13 year old mother, let alone at the age she was when she had Caylee. Carp, at 19, I was pregnant with my second.

tx_Dot
11-27-2008, 01:14 PM
There is no way to know if KC told Jessie the truth when she said her brother tried to have sex with her. I doubt it's true. She's said many, many things that aren't true, no reason to believe this. And I see no shred of evidence that any one of her family members molested her. What is the evidence, for those who believe?

resp. snipped......

ITA !!!.....and if IIRC didn't KC tell her family not to trust/believe anything that Jesse had to say ????

sheesh.....sorting out KC's lies is more than a full time job !!

TURBOTHINK
11-27-2008, 01:21 PM
The main thing which jumped out at me from the Tony and KC text is she was sending that from a Blackberry. She said she had a "blackjack" which is like a blackberry, just AT&T name brand, so evidently she really did have one and how did she get it back to text him after she got out on bond? LE had been looking for it all along.

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:25 PM
The main thing which jumped out at me from the Tony and KC text is she was sending that from a Blackberry. She said she had a "blackjack" which is like a blackberry, just AT&T name brand, so evidently she really did have one and how did she get it back to text him after she got out on bond? LE had been looking for it all along.

Maybe she was using someone's phone. Her phone has been cut off. Right?

California Dreamer
11-27-2008, 01:28 PM
I feel so very sorry for the great grandparents on both sides. Those e-mails contain a lot of thoughts that were shared in confidence. Could not have been easy for her to give them up, but she did. That is the behavior of a person who really wants to get to the truth.
I wish they would have blackened out the non-Casey stuff in those emails. This is not going to be a pleasant Thanksgiving for those who were talked about in the emails that were NOT related to the case. Poor G-Grandma!! I liked her style in dealing with Cindy, though.

elfie
11-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Hoping the love and warmth of family and friends helps offset the sadness of events and loss of beautiful Caylee girl. Happy Thanksgiving to each and every one of you.

tx_Dot
11-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Yep! Cinderella Complex. She has low self-esteem, due in large part to being raised by an overbearing mother. By enabling KC all those years, she tightened the apron strings instead of loosening them as parents should to allow children to grow into independent adults. CA wants her children -- and GA, too, for that matter -- to depend on her because she has control issues and a strong need to be needed. As a result, she raised a needy child. She wrecked KC's self-esteem to the point that KC lacked the confidence to achieve anything on her own, and believed that she needed a Prince Charming to rescue her.

Women like this often do make up stories of abuse to invoke sympathy in men they're pursuing. It's interesting to note that no mention was made of the alleged abuse in the interviews with female friends. We only here of it from bf's.

my bolded......yep, seems only 'boyfriends' heard of these abuses.

Marple
11-27-2008, 01:33 PM
ITA !!!.....and if IIRC didn't KC tell her family not to trust/believe anything that Jesse had to say ????

She was probably thinking of all the BS she's told JG and now it was going to bite her in the booty. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Hoping the love and warmth of family and friends helps offset the sadness of events and loss of beautiful Caylee girl. Happy Thanksgiving to each and every one of you.


You too. Happy Gobble day. It was a wonderful dinner. I would say time for a nap but this is way to interesting.

FootballMom
11-27-2008, 01:38 PM
I believe that check was from George's parents.

Set 5, page 42.. was a Christmas check from Lee to KC for $25... the other name on the account was Ruth A... We don't know who Ruth is....

elfie
11-27-2008, 01:40 PM
You too. Happy Gobble day. It was a wonderful dinner. I would say time for a nap but this is way to interesting.

Thanks Coley! Glad it was good! See you all here in a week or so.

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Set 5, page 42.. was a Christmas check from Lee to KC for $25... the other name on the account was Ruth A... We don't know who Ruth is....

I wonder if George's father is a Lee. Maybe Lee's name comes from the family. I know my father's name is Lee and my brother has it for a middle name and my son has it for a middle name as well.

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 01:44 PM
OMG,... did anyone see the written statement of Lois (Dakota's grandma)?
http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

basically in it is Cindy telling Lois NOT to tell anyone that Casey is communicating with Dakota through email bc she isn't allowed to email ANYONE! And not to tell about the bracelet.
So here is the thing,.. if she is emailing a 12 year old little girl,.. WHO ELSE was she emailing? Also this goes to show that Cindy DOES NOT play by the rules. She is covering for Casey yet again!!!!!!!!! It makes me sick. Wonder why that she never got in trouble for that??????? (Cindy or Casey) You'd think they would have since they didn't follow the rules,.... jmo

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:44 PM
Set 5, page 42.. was a Christmas check from Lee to KC for $25... the other name on the account was Ruth A... We don't know who Ruth is....

What media site? I know CF13 doesn't have that many sets. Is this fox?

MysteryAddict
11-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Here, third paragraph from the bottom mentions GA abuse. I think there's another place too, but can't remember where.


http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/112608discoverysettwo/1/lg/Anthony_pgs_2321-2400_R_Page_03.htm


Whether SA is all a lie or not- who knows?

We do know that KC and LA sure acted close.
How about that "high five" gesture at the court!
That led me to think they share secrets, probably related to what she was doing
with her time.

What did catch my attention was on KC's photobucket where she printed out....

"Guns don't kill people.........Dads with pretty daughters do".

This led me to think that the big family secret would more likely involve
her "Dad" than her Brother!

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:46 PM
OMG,... did anyone see the written statement of Lois (Dakota's grandma)?
http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

basically in it is Cindy telling Lois NOT to tell anyone that Casey is communicating with Dakota through email bc she isn't allowed to email ANYONE! And not to tell about the bracelet.
So here is the thing,.. if she is emailing a 12 year old little girl,.. WHO ELSE was she emailing? Also this goes to show that Cindy DOES NOT play by the rules. She is covering for Casey yet again!!!!!!!!! It makes me sick. Wonder why that she never got in trouble for that??????? (Cindy or Casey) You'd think they would have since they didn't follow the rules,.... jmo

It also makes me wonder about the bracelet. Why not mention the bracelet? Does it have the same beads as the cross or something? Just thinking out loud.:)

JulieR
11-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Ok, I understand you're opinion on KC being a victim in your opinion. My question for you that I'm not clear on is - with Caylee's tiny decomposed body lying out there somewhere so that no one can find out the truth of her demise, what punishment do you think KC should receive for her subsequent lies and refusal to cooperate in the disappearance of her daughter? With all you've read and seen to date, what would you suggest the jury sentence KC to?

Had to hit on this one. I think DEATH, unless she would come clean and tell the truth, bring Caylee home.

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Whether SA is all a lie or not- who knows?

We do know that KC and LA sure acted close.
How about that "high five" gesture at the court!
That led me to think they share secrets, probably related to what she was doing
with her time.

What did catch my attention was on KC's photobucket where she printed out....

"Guns don't kill people.........Dads with pretty daughters do".

This led me to think that the big family secret would more likely involve
her "Dad" than her Brother!

You know I have been thinking about this. To me when KC talks she says something but in all reality its the other way around. For example~

I don't know where Caylee is.
meaning: I know where Caylee is.

So maybe KC is saying this about Lee when all reality she came onto Lee.

yolorado
11-27-2008, 01:49 PM
I wish they would have blackened out the non-Casey stuff in those emails. This is not going to be a pleasant Thanksgiving for those who were talked about in the emails that were NOT related to the case. Poor G-Grandma!! I liked her style in dealing with Cindy, though.

It's shocking how much personal info is released in these 'dumps.' People's phone numbers, work addresses, home addresses, even Social Security Numbers and personal conversations. It really doesn't seem fair that just because someone gets pulled into someone else's crime spree, or just communicates with someone who did, is questioned by the police that their personal information and correspondences can be throw out on the Net and in the media for everyone in the world to see, use and abuse. I generally support Sunshine laws and freedom of information but it seems like Florida's laws take it to the point of exposing and injuring inncoent bystanders and that's really kind of horrible.

Coley
11-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Had to hit on this one. I think DEATH, unless she would come clean and tell the truth, bring Caylee home.

I honestly think she will face life in prison with no parole. She has no serious criminal background (if she does and we don't know it it was when she was a minor) and usually they go the route of life since she is a female. Not many females get death.

KC isn't coming clean. She might have came clean but I believe her family & JB have made it to where this will never happen.

MiraclesHappen
11-27-2008, 01:55 PM
"Originally Posted by Meagain
Question - I'm desperately trying to triage the 700 pages right now."

OMG I just have a moment to check last page of thread. Thanks for reposting that, WhatsthatClue:blowkiss:

You know it just has to be a major :turkey: holiday when the phrase "triage the 700 pages" is used, and everybody clearly understands the meaning.

Have a happy Thanksgiving !!! Really leaving this time!::run::Banane12:

:wave:

Marple
11-27-2008, 02:06 PM
OMG,... did anyone see the written statement of Lois (Dakota's grandma)?
http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

basically in it is Cindy telling Lois NOT to tell anyone that Casey is communicating with Dakota through email bc she isn't allowed to email ANYONE! And not to tell about the bracelet.
So here is the thing,.. if she is emailing a 12 year old little girl,.. WHO ELSE was she emailing? Also this goes to show that Cindy DOES NOT play by the rules. She is covering for Casey yet again!!!!!!!!! It makes me sick. Wonder why that she never got in trouble for that??????? (Cindy or Casey) You'd think they would have since they didn't follow the rules,.... jmo

Wow. So, she's encouraging Lois to break the law? Is everyone supposed to cover for KC?

Coley
11-27-2008, 02:09 PM
Wow. So, she's encouraging Lois to break the law? Is everyone supposed to cover for KC?

This woman encourages herself and family to break the law. Why not add some sympathetic people into the mix?! She is truly one of a kind.

BeanE
11-27-2008, 02:09 PM
Page 2499 - On Aug 7, 2008, Mark Fuhrman recounted his conversations with George and Cindy to OCSO. George & Cindy told him that Cindy and Casey had an argument on June 15 or 16.

So now we have two independent sources reporting this argument in these docs.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 02:14 PM
It's shocking how much personal info is released in these 'dumps.' People's phone numbers, work addresses, home addresses, even Social Security Numbers and personal conversations. It really doesn't seem fair that just because someone gets pulled into someone else's crime spree, or just communicates with someone who did, is questioned by the police that their personal information and correspondences can be throw out on the Net and in the media for everyone in the world to see, use and abuse. I generally support Sunshine laws and freedom of information but it seems like Florida's laws take it to the point of exposing and injuring inncoent bystanders and that's really kind of horrible.

I agree. I was reading the emails this morning and thinking about how horrible I would feel if thousands of complete strangers were able to view parts of my personal life. I feel so sorry for these people.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 02:16 PM
I posted this earlier, but did anyone else read that CA and KC apparently told a detective the JG killed Caylee and he was the one who placed the body in the trunk? I guess LP overheard this conversation. Kind of shoots a hole in CA's "Caylee is alive" story. They are really out to get JG.

daisy7
11-27-2008, 02:20 PM
I haven't read all the posts in these threads, so I apologize if I'm behind, but did anyone else notice the Google search for getting rid of fleas a few days before the chloroform and peroxide searches? Perhaps this is the reason for these searches?

I had VERY bad fleas in my house last fall, a week or so after my cat died (they were everywhere!). I did numerous searches on the net, including for peroxide (as many said this will get rid of them) as well as for Borax and other things (not for chloroform; though a quick search on the net shows this is supposed to be a good flea-killer).

Also, what are your thoughts about that GA may have done these Google searches?

Happy Thanksgiving!

TURBOTHINK
11-27-2008, 02:27 PM
Maybe she was using someone's phone. Her phone has been cut off. Right?

Or did Lee or her mysteriously "find" the long lost "BlackJack" phone?

TURBOTHINK
11-27-2008, 02:29 PM
Wow. So, she's encouraging Lois to break the law? Is everyone supposed to cover for KC?

Well, LE knows she broke the bond rules from the texts from the Blackberry to Tony............that was when she was out on bond.

ThoughtFox
11-27-2008, 02:38 PM
It depends(not talking about Casey now),I know 30years old women who unfortunately are still controlled and manipulated by their parents.:mad:

Yes but that is a choice, too, made by adults. Most people manage to grow up and have their own lives, unless they are dependent for money. But being dependent as an adult is also a choice!

I don't think victimization fits this case as a defense for Casey. I see her mother as an apologist for everything her daughter has done.

If Casey was so controlled and manipulated, then why didn't her family know what she was doing and where Caylee was for a month? Who was really "in charge" of things at that time? It seems to me that Casey was, even on the day that her mother finally picked up a phone and called 911. A truly "controlling" mother would have called the day after Casey left with Caylee, and they would have checked up alot sooner than Cindy did!

Sorry - I am sure there are family problems, but she was an adult making her own decisions - most of them bad for herself and Caylee. She needs to own what she did or did not do.

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 02:49 PM
Yes but that is a choice, too, made by adults. Most people manage to grow up and have their own lives, unless they are dependent for money. But being dependent as an adult is also a choice!

I don't think victimization fits this case as a defense for Casey. I see her mother as an apologist for everything her daughter has done.

If Casey was so controlled and manipulated, then why didn't her family know what she was doing and where Caylee was for a month? Who was really "in charge" of things at that time? It seems to me that Casey was, even on the day that her mother finally picked up a phone and called 911. A truly "controlling" mother would have called the day after Casey left with Caylee, and they would have checked up alot sooner than Cindy did!

Sorry - I am sure there are family problems, but she was an adult making her own decisions - most of them bad for herself and Caylee. She needs to own what she did or did not do.

Excellent post. I have to agree on most points. I don't see Casey as being manipulated, I see her as a manipulator. Now she may have learned that from Cindy, but I think she took it to a higher level. I think Cindy wanted to be the one in control, but Casey took over. Probably about the time that Caylee was born. Sometimes throughout this case, I have wondered if that was the only reason that Casey had Caylee at all, to have a tool to use against her parents.
That sickens me. :mad::furious:

maconrich
11-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Casey does not strike me as someone that does something she doesn't want to. I think her behavior shows that she does exactly what she wants to do.
I mention that because I think Casey chose to have Caylee of her own free will. She could have easily aborted the baby and told Cindy she fell down a flight of stairs. She made up fake accidents, strokes,jobs so she is fully capable. I don't think Cindy could have forced Casy into carrying a baby. it just doesn't fit.

(respectfully snipped)This is exactly what I was thinking last night while reading the thoughts about LA potentially being Caylee's father. KC isn't stupid, and I believe that if there was any chance Lee could have been the father she would have had an abortion faster than she can text a message! She wouldn't have had to worry about Cindy or anyone else wanting her to keep the baby because she wouldn't have stayed pregnant long enough to even show! (And I see nothing to indicate that she has any morals that might make her rule out abortion as an option.)



And as far as her having a 'Cinderella Complex' - well that's not something I see either. She clearly thinks she's 'all that' and her behavior is more egotistical / narcissist than indicative of someone lacking self esteem. Granted she might have wanted a man to take care of her but IMO that's because she felt entitled to it. Plus I'm sure it was hard work maintaining her charade of having a pretend career while her parents were taking care of all her financial needs.

I wonder how many more lives she'll destroy before all is said and done...


~Happy Thanksgiving!~

natsound
11-27-2008, 03:37 PM
I haven't read all the posts in these threads, so I apologize if I'm behind, but did anyone else notice the Google search for getting rid of fleas a few days before the chloroform and peroxide searches? Perhaps this is the reason for these searches?

I had VERY bad fleas in my house last fall, a week or so after my cat died (they were everywhere!). I did numerous searches on the net, including for peroxide (as many said this will get rid of them) as well as for Borax and other things (not for chloroform; though a quick search on the net shows this is supposed to be a good flea-killer).

Also, what are your thoughts about that GA may have done these Google searches?

Happy Thanksgiving!

Hmmm... that's interesting. I didn't see the "how to get rid of fleas" search, but I've only seen bits and pieces of what was actually searched. It's definitely possible that all of the searches for chemicals are not for sinister reasons, but I bet at least most of them are. Supposely LE will be able to determine who did the searching by comparing the times of the searches to who was home at the time, so I guess we'll see.

Considering the searches for chemicals as well as the "how to make household weapons", "self defense", and neck breaking" searches, I think it's possible that at one time KC was planning to hurt someone else in the family and claim self defense.

mysteriew
11-27-2008, 03:47 PM
This is exactly what I was thinking last night while reading the thoughts about LA potentially being Caylee's father. KC isn't stupid, and I believe that if there was any chance Lee could have been the father she would have had an abortion faster than she can text a message! She wouldn't have had to worry about Cindy or anyone else wanting her to keep the baby because she wouldn't have stayed pregnant long enough to even show! (And I see nothing to indicate that she has any morals that might make her rule out abortion as an option.)



And as far as her having a 'Cinderella Complex' - well that's not something I see either. She clearly thinks she's 'all that' and her behavior is more egotistical / narcissist than indicative of someone lacking self esteem. Granted she might have wanted a man to take care of her but IMO that's because she felt entitled to it. Plus I'm sure it was hard work maintaining her charade of having a pretend career while her parents were taking care of all her financial needs.

I wonder how many more lives she'll destroy before all is said and done...


~Happy Thanksgiving!~

I think she may blame Cindy for forcing her to go through with the pregnancy. But wasn't she pretty far along in her pregnancy before Cindy ever found out? Was she far enough along to be past the abortion limits?

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 03:48 PM
Where did everyone see How to Make Household weapons in the search histories? I have only seen Household Weapons, which is a big difference, at least to me.

cocoamom
11-27-2008, 03:52 PM
OMG! I was looking at the computer searches she did. Right after the shovel and neck-breaking she searched for "One Tree Hill 100th Episode". So I did!!! There is a crazy nanny, someone named Jamie is missing, the nanny has something to do with it...still looking - WOW!!!

rozey
11-27-2008, 03:59 PM
OMG! I was looking at the computer searches she did. Right after the shovel and neck-breaking she searched for "One Tree Hill 100th Episode". So I did!!! There is a crazy nanny, someone named Jamie is missing, the nanny has something to do with it...still looking - WOW!!!

When did this episode originally air?

cocoamom
11-27-2008, 03:59 PM
Jamie is a 41/2 year old boy kidnapped by the nanny at the bathroom during a wedding - takes him to a hotel room and dyes his hair black like hers...geez why cant I find the whole synopsis of this episode from MAY??

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 04:04 PM
I dont know if they are keeping alot of sensitive information away from the public, or if this is just another of many errors in the documents.
In the last lot of docs(15) on page 34 of the pdf(or page 3044) there is a routing and affidavit form. Its dated 12th sept and is listed as a suspicious incident that has been referred to sex crimes.
Its right before dantes interview and i was holding my breath the whole way through it, but there was nothing in it.(thank god)
I noticed the same thing in a much earlier doc dump, but cant remember which one now, and theres no way i'm going back to find it today, but it was definately there.
Did anyone else catch it, and know why its there?

rozey
11-27-2008, 04:07 PM
[QUOTE=butwhatif?;2996515]I dont know if they are keeping alot of sensitive information away from the public, or if this is just another of many errors in the documents.
In the last lot of docs(15) on page 34 of the pdf(or page 3044) there is a routing and affidavit form. Its dated 12th sept and is listed as a suspicious incident that has been referred to sex crimes.
Its right before dantes interview and i was holding my breath the whole way through it, but there was nothing in it.(thank god)
I noticed the same thing in a much earlier doc dump, but cant remember which one now, and theres no way i'm going back to find it today, but it was definately there.
Did anyone else catch it, and know why its there?[/QUOTE


IIRC that dept was handling the investigation into the neglect charges.

tippytoes
11-27-2008, 04:17 PM
I just read all the pdfs and I wish I had noted the page number, but was anyone else surprised that KC had cashed checks, in the past, at the Amscot where her car was abandoned?

I know it was close to the A house, but it still caught me off guard that she had a history of going there. Anyone else, or is it just me?

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 04:19 PM
I just read all the pdfs and I wish I had noted the page number, but was anyone else surprised that KC had cashed checks, in the past, at the Amscot where her car was abandoned?

I know it was close to the A house, but it still caught me off guard that she had a history of going there. Anyone else, or is it just me?

I haven't gotten there, but I am not surprised. Everything she does, is based on something that she knows, at least in passing.

cocoamom
11-27-2008, 04:22 PM
When did this episode originally air?

I don't know - can't remember - March or May - burning the pecan pie! Reading when I can in between~~

SOMEBODY better get in and search the church!! - that's where "Jamie" was kidnapped by the nanny from!

panthera
11-27-2008, 04:23 PM
If the allegations of sexual abuse by Lee are untrue....maybe he won't be so fast and determined to defend her and we'll get some interesting news soon?
If I were him and it's untrue, I'd be clarifying that right away. MOO

cocoamom
11-27-2008, 04:25 PM
When did this episode originally air?

It aired MARCH 18th...

panthera
11-27-2008, 04:29 PM
I just read all the pdfs and I wish I had noted the page number, but was anyone else surprised that KC had cashed checks, in the past, at the Amscot where her car was abandoned?

I know it was close to the A house, but it still caught me off guard that she had a history of going there. Anyone else, or is it just me?
I too noticed those checks when I was reading through the docs last night. Kind of ironic her car just happens to run out of gas there and ends up being towed from that location? Makes me think even more that she picked that place to leave the car. MOO

panthera
11-27-2008, 04:31 PM
I think she may blame Cindy for forcing her to go through with the pregnancy. But wasn't she pretty far along in her pregnancy before Cindy ever found out? Was she far enough along to be past the abortion limits?
Oh yes, something like 7-8 months pregnant as I recall.

Marple
11-27-2008, 04:34 PM
Jamie is a 41/2 year old boy kidnapped by the nanny at the bathroom during a wedding - takes him to a hotel room and dyes his hair black like hers...geez why cant I find the whole synopsis of this episode from MAY??

It was originally aired on March 18, Season 5, episode 12. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1032104/synopsis

The name of the episode is "Hundred", the title taken from a song by The Fray.

The crazy nanny was named Carrie.

panthera
11-27-2008, 04:35 PM
I haven't read all the posts in these threads, so I apologize if I'm behind, but did anyone else notice the Google search for getting rid of fleas a few days before the chloroform and peroxide searches? Perhaps this is the reason for these searches?

I had VERY bad fleas in my house last fall, a week or so after my cat died (they were everywhere!). I did numerous searches on the net, including for peroxide (as many said this will get rid of them) as well as for Borax and other things (not for chloroform; though a quick search on the net shows this is supposed to be a good flea-killer).

Also, what are your thoughts about that GA may have done these Google searches?

Happy Thanksgiving!
I think that might depend on who doesn't know how to spell the word 'chloroform'. Whoever searched had it as 'chloraform' as I remember. I really wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what the defense offers ~ that GA did the searches because there were fleas in the house. MOO

tippytoes
11-27-2008, 04:35 PM
I too noticed those checks when I was reading through the docs last night. Kind of ironic her car just happens to run out of gas there and ends up being towed from that location? Makes me think even more that she picked that place to leave the car. MOO

I am soooo glad you saw that document, too. Did you notice the check from "Cindy"--so CLEARLY written out by Miss Casey herself, then endorsed by Casey--for $200 and the memo said "camping trip." Was I crazy or was that check declined, if you know?

There were many checks that she cashed there over the years. I guess we can probably all realize that when KC told Amy and Tony about the bank account with $15,000, she was most likely lying. AGAIN. :eek:

mollie
11-27-2008, 04:42 PM
At this point, and mods, if you need to edit this I'll understand, I am pretty darn certain KC is a sociopath, and possibly bipolar to boot.

Might she have been abused as a child? Anything is possible, but judging the relationship she has continued to have with her brother throughout the years, I doubt it. I continue to remember the high five/laughter as she escaped the press that day. Honestly, I do think this is the tract the defense is going to use, most certainly. It still won't help KC in this case, it will only, in her mind get even with all the injustice done to her by her family(in her eyes). She cannot feel for anyone. Period. She cares not who she takes down in her wake.

panthera
11-27-2008, 04:42 PM
I am soooo glad you saw that document, too. Did you notice the check from "Cindy"--so CLEARLY written out by Miss Casey herself, then endorsed by Casey--for $200 and the memo said "camping trip." Was I crazy or was that check declined, if you know?

There were many checks that she cashed there over the years. I guess we can probably all realize that when KC told Amy and Tony about the bank account with $15,000, she was most likely lying. AGAIN. :eek:
Oh yes I saw that check too. It's amazing she got away with these forgeries. MOO I'd have to go back and look at it again to see if it went through or not, but I've forgotten where in the documents it is now.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 04:43 PM
If I were him and it's untrue, I'd be clarifying that right away. MOO

No kidding. I can't believe he hasn't spoken up. If it isn't true, Lee should be jumping off the Anthony wagon of lies and making it known that in no way did he molest his sister. His silence is very strange.

FootballMom
11-27-2008, 04:45 PM
does anyone know if we have the forenisc time/data of the escort searches in any of these or previous doc dumps?

Marple
11-27-2008, 04:46 PM
No kidding. I can't believe he hasn't spoken up. If it isn't true, Lee should be jumping off the Anthony wagon of lies and making it known that in no way did he molest his sister. His silence is very strange.

I don't think his silence is strange at all. Today is a holiday and he's probably going to have to retain his own lawyer now. At least, if I were him, I would want a lawyer!

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 04:46 PM
[QUOTE=butwhatif?;2996515]I dont know if they are keeping alot of sensitive information away from the public, or if this is just another of many errors in the documents.
In the last lot of docs(15) on page 34 of the pdf(or page 3044) there is a routing and affidavit form. Its dated 12th sept and is listed as a suspicious incident that has been referred to sex crimes.
Its right before dantes interview and i was holding my breath the whole way through it, but there was nothing in it.(thank god)
I noticed the same thing in a much earlier doc dump, but cant remember which one now, and theres no way i'm going back to find it today, but it was definately there.
Did anyone else catch it, and know why its there?[/QUOTE


IIRC that dept was handling the investigation into the neglect charges.

But they have the option of ticking others like child abuse or missing persons. so why sex crimes?

FootballMom
11-27-2008, 04:47 PM
What media site? I know CF13 doesn't have that many sets. Is this fox?

pdf docs from WESH... 15 sets

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 04:50 PM
I don't think his silence is strange at all. Today is a holiday and he's probably going to have to retain his own lawyer now. At least, if I were him, I would want a lawyer!

If I were LA, I would have retained a lawyer the first time LP hinted of inappropriate contact between LA and KC. Maybe he has and we just don't know about it.

Janis396
11-27-2008, 04:54 PM
If I were LA, I would have retained a lawyer the first time LP hinted of inappropriate contact between LA and KC. Maybe he has and we just don't know about it.

MOST lawyers cost money (JB being the apparent exception) - and since Lee hasn't worked the last 2 months, according to George, I don't know how he'd pay the lawyer's fee. Unless old mom would dip into the donation jar for him, like she's done for herself.

Indigo
11-27-2008, 04:55 PM
No kidding. I can't believe he hasn't spoken up. If it isn't true, Lee should be jumping off the Anthony wagon of lies and making it known that in no way did he molest his sister. His silence is very strange.

The general public hasn't combed through these 700 pages the way we have:crazy:--so most don't even know about Casey's allegations. He'd actually draw more attention to the issue by going public with his denial.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 04:57 PM
The general public hasn't combed through these 700 pages the way we have:crazy:--so most don't even know about Casey's allegations. He'd actually draw more attention to the issue by going public with his denial.

Very true. I forget that most people aren't as addicted to the case as we are. :)

NJ Lawyer
11-27-2008, 05:14 PM
I think it was a false alarm. The first statement indicates the hole was dug by the other witnesses. But it was the hole that made the searcher suspicious. The other searchers were following a buried rope tied to a stick. Seems like a false alarm. It would have been nice to see the police report on the incident, not just the witness staments. Okay, thanks. I'm just wondering though....why would anyone bury one end of a rope deep the ground with the other end of the rope out of the ground?

tx_Dot
11-27-2008, 05:14 PM
He'd actually draw more attention to the issue by going public with his denial.

resp. snipped...

hmmm......it has been awhile since we've heard anything from LA, wonder if the dates of these interviews coincide with him 'stepping out of the picture' ?

Chilly Willy
11-27-2008, 05:16 PM
The general public hasn't combed through these 700 pages the way we have:crazy:--so most don't even know about Casey's allegations. He'd actually draw more attention to the issue by going public with his denial.

I agree. Lee can deny the accusations privately to the people that really matter to him. If he denies the accusations publicly most people will accuse him of lying. If he stays quiet, people will believe he's not defending himself because he's guilty. He might as well keep quiet and not draw any more attention to the claims since he can't win either way.

Meagain
11-27-2008, 05:22 PM
I hope Nancy Grace has the balls to bring the 'abuse' allegations up.

EDIT: I'll take more of the guy that did the show last night. It was refreshing to hear someone distrusting Cindy. Nancy just won't go there and defends G & C too much.

lisalei321
11-27-2008, 05:24 PM
I've been playing really really nice with Family (that I don't even really like) all day today, (plus some that I do), and everyone is fed, the leftovers put away and dishes done. Would someone please give me a link to the PDF version of the doc's so I can actually read them without getting a headache from the small print? TIA!

Chilly Willy
11-27-2008, 05:26 PM
I hope Nancy Grace has the balls to bring the 'abuse' allegations up.

I don't. If Casey is lying, which she probably is since that's what she does, Lee doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud.

EmMomma
11-27-2008, 05:28 PM
I've been playing really really nice with Family (that I don't even really like) all day today, (plus some that I do), and everyone is fed, the leftovers put away and dishes done. Would someone please give me a link to the PDF version of the doc's so I can actually read them without getting a headache from the small print? TIA!

Bottom of the page here:
http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/18152171/detail.html

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 05:33 PM
When i googled sex crimes unit OSCO this is what i got...

Sex Crimes Unit

The Sex Crimes Unit consists of one lieutenant, two sergeants, 12 detectives and a secretary. Detectives are tasked with the investigation of all felony sexual assaults, as well as crimes involving child pornography and lewd and lascivious acts. The Sex Crimes Unit investigates more than 2000 reported cases of alleged felony sex crimes each year, with a case clearance rate of 72%.
I kept searching and found that on 22 oct osco started their own sex crimes unit.
But there would be no reason to refer the case to this unit for child neglect, unless the witness that is referred to in the doc had stated that a sex crime had taken place.

The only think I can think of is that when the statements were made by jesse and tonE re incest, that it was then referred to said unit.

It states that the following hardcopies are attatched:
sworn statement (5) -but no sworn statements follow, re sex crimes.

I dont even want to type what is going through my head right now.:furious:

panthera
11-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Very true. I forget that most people aren't as addicted to the case as we are. :)
I have a tendency to forget that too. :)

Marple
11-27-2008, 05:37 PM
But there would be no reason to refer the case to this unit for child neglect, unless the witness that is referred to in the doc had stated that a sex crime had taken place.

The only think I can think of is that when the statements were made by jesse and tonE re incest, that it was then referred to said unit.


Or, that the mother of a minor child was possibly involved in pornography.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 05:37 PM
I don't. If Casey is lying, which she probably is since that's what she does, Lee doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud.

:clap::clap::clap:

Whether it's true or not, talking about it doesn't bring Caylee back.

panthera
11-27-2008, 05:38 PM
I hope Nancy Grace has the balls to bring the 'abuse' allegations up.

EDIT: I'll take more of the guy that did the show last night. It was refreshing to hear someone distrusting Cindy. Nancy just won't go there and defends G & C too much.
I'd like more proof other than just Casey's word before having this a topic on Nancy's show. LA isn't the one who has been charged with murder and sitting in jail either and may just be completely innocent of any wrongdoing. MOO

trac
11-27-2008, 05:46 PM
Oh yes I saw that check too. It's amazing she got away with these forgeries. MOO I'd have to go back and look at it again to see if it went through or not, but I've forgotten where in the documents it is now.

What part of the WESH document cluster are the checks? I'm curious to see them

lisalei321
11-27-2008, 05:48 PM
Bottom of the page here:
http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/18152171/detail.html


Thank you, now I have something to do during my 4 hour layover in Atlanta tomorrow.

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 05:50 PM
When i googled sex crimes unit OSCO this is what i got...

Sex Crimes Unit

The Sex Crimes Unit consists of one lieutenant, two sergeants, 12 detectives and a secretary. Detectives are tasked with the investigation of all felony sexual assaults, as well as crimes involving child pornography and lewd and lascivious acts. The Sex Crimes Unit investigates more than 2000 reported cases of alleged felony sex crimes each year, with a case clearance rate of 72%.
I kept searching and found that on 22 oct osco started their own sex crimes unit.
But there would be no reason to refer the case to this unit for child neglect, unless the witness that is referred to in the doc had stated that a sex crime had taken place.

The only think I can think of is that when the statements were made by jesse and tonE re incest, that it was then referred to said unit.

It states that the following hardcopies are attatched:
sworn statement (5) -but no sworn statements follow, re sex crimes.

I dont even want to type what is going through my head right now.:furious:

I know this is a HORRIBLE subject but we know Casey would do anything for money. Could she be taking pics of Caylee and selling them? I don't even want to think about it, but George said Casey did alot of bad things and regardless will be in jail for a long time. Even if Caylee is alive and well somewhere else according to George, Casey is STILL going to be going to jail for a long time. Something to ponder,.. jmo

panthera
11-27-2008, 05:53 PM
What part of the WESH document cluster are the checks? I'm curious to see them
I had to look them up again! :)

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 05:53 PM
I know this is a HORRIBLE subject but we know Casey would do anything for money. Could she be taking pics of Caylee and selling them? I don't even want to think about it, but George said Casey did alot of bad things and regardless will be in jail for a long time. Even if Caylee is alive and well somewhere else according to George, Casey is STILL going to be going to jail for a long time. Something to ponder,.. jmo

I really don't think so, but this case does get stranger by the day.

panthera
11-27-2008, 05:56 PM
I know this is a HORRIBLE subject but we know Casey would do anything for money. Could she be taking pics of Caylee and selling them? I don't even want to think about it, but George said Casey did alot of bad things and regardless will be in jail for a long time. Even if Caylee is alive and well somewhere else according to George, Casey is STILL going to be going to jail for a long time. Something to ponder,.. jmo
Aren't there over 1000 photos out there that haven't been released in these docs? I seem to recall they're supposed to be rather pornographic photos of Casey, but maybe some of them have Caylee in them. Just a thought. MOO

trac
11-27-2008, 05:56 PM
I had to look them up again! :)

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

Thanks I'm going there now!

I hope we get the credit card statements in another document dump - it will be very telling!

nomoresorrow
11-27-2008, 05:57 PM
If I were him and it's untrue, I'd be clarifying that right away. MOO



If I were LA (and LA if your reading this...) I would accept the fact (hard as it may be) that I must completely disconnect from my family of origin, that I have no hope EVER of having a healthy & happy relationship with ANY woman whom I choose to spend my life with and start a family of my own so long as I continue to have a relationship with my family.

I personally can't see CA treating any woman that LA is with as "good enough" for her son, she wouldn't stand a chance w/ CA. I see CA picking every little thing apart that she does (or doesn't do) even more so if there is a child/grandchild involved. I would urge LA to go get counseling immediately, and if not for himself, for the child that his gf is carrying of his (from what I understand)

Can anyone tell me, what is the age difference between LA & KC ? Is there a 5 year age difference between them? Thanks!

trac
11-27-2008, 06:01 PM
Wow, Casey really did a number on the A's bank accounts - my parents would have had me arrested in an instant! Heck I'd have my daughters arrested for forging checks - this is so unacceptable for the A's to let her get away with all this

So it looks like Casey did not have a bank account in her name - so she used check cashing services

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 06:03 PM
Or, that the mother of a minor child was possibly involved in pornography.

But if the mother is an adult its not a crime, is it?:waitasec:

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 06:04 PM
Wow, Casey really did a number on the A's bank accounts - my parents would have had me arrested in an instant! Heck I'd have my daughters arrested for forging checks - this is so unacceptable for the A's to let her get away with all this

If I had stolen that much money from my mom, she would not have hesitated to have me arrested. CA really is an enabler. Yes, KC is a liar and a thief, but she has never been held accountable for her actions, at least she hasn't until now.

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 06:04 PM
Aren't there over 1000 photos out there that haven't been released in these docs? I seem to recall they're supposed to be rather pornographic photos of Casey, but maybe some of them have Caylee in them. Just a thought. MOO

Thats what I am saying. Either Caylee is in the pics as well or maybe she has pics of her own. I know this is horrible and I don't even want to bring it up. But if they are only unsavory pics of Casey,.. WHY would George say she was doing really bad things and that regardless she was going away for a long time.
It didn't sound like he was talking about the stealing of money at all. It sounded related to these pics. Porn pics don't put you in jail. jmo

panthera
11-27-2008, 06:05 PM
Wow, Casey really did a number on the A's bank accounts - my parents would have had me arrested in an instant! Heck I'd have my daughters arrested for forging checks - this is so unacceptable for the A's to let her get away with all this
It is mind boggling to me also. I keep thinking back to if only CA's mother had pressed charges with taking their money that Caylee might be alive today. :( MOO

panthera
11-27-2008, 06:07 PM
Thats what I am saying. Either Caylee is in the pics as well or maybe she has pics of her own. I know this is horrible and I don't even want to bring it up. But if they are only unsavory pics of Casey,.. WHY would George say she was doing really bad things and that regardless she was going away for a long time.
It didn't sound like he was talking about the stealing of money at all. It sounded related to these pics. Porn pics don't put you in jail. jmo
Maybe merely having Caylee present while those photos are being taken is considered a sex crime because she's a child? Another thing, RM said she was in bed with him and Casey. That might be it too. MOO

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Thats what I am saying. Either Caylee is in the pics as well or maybe she has pics of her own. I know this is horrible and I don't even want to bring it up. But if they are only unsavory pics of Casey,.. WHY would George say she was doing really bad things and that regardless she was going away for a long time.
It didn't sound like he was talking about the stealing of money at all. It sounded related to these pics. Porn pics don't put you in jail. jmo

I don't even want to think about it. The possibility of that happening to Caylee makes me sick to my stomach, as I'm sure it does to all of you.

Chilly Willy
11-27-2008, 06:10 PM
Aren't there over 1000 photos out there that haven't been released in these docs? I seem to recall they're supposed to be rather pornographic photos of Casey, but maybe some of them have Caylee in them. Just a thought. MOO

There are no kiddie porn charges against Casey, and I imagine there would be if LE found pornographic pics of Caylee on the computer.

trac
11-27-2008, 06:10 PM
You guys are right - I know I help my daughters, I do not let them get away with stuff - this is all so minor compared to what Casey has done, but my oldest daughter got ticket in one of those red light cameras - she gets the ticket, she asks me to pay it - so I do and she has to pay me back - $200 and some odd dollars - she was not happy tough - she had to pay me back the paycheck period - yes it's minor, so minor, till I don't let my daughters get over

My youngest ditched school, got caught by the officer in the school - he calls me - I tell him to write her up - I don't go to the school she has to take the punishment

This is all minor little things - but stop it now, they are accountable for their actions and we won't go this route like all these sad cases we hear about

twomanywords
11-27-2008, 06:11 PM
Somewhere in the docs with the Amscot checks that were cashed, there is a form that has a few checks with Cindy's name on them. They are from a restaurant. It lists her as a server. It's in small writing.
I wonder if she had to have several jobs to support everyone?

trac
11-27-2008, 06:12 PM
Maybe merely having Caylee present while those photos are being taken is considered a sex crime because she's a child? Another thing, RM said she was in bed with him and Casey. That might be it too. MOO

No - if a child is at the scene of lets say Casey and her flavor of the night doing the deed - is not a sex crime - it's child neglect but not a sex crime -

trac
11-27-2008, 06:14 PM
Somewhere in the docs with the Amscot checks that were cashed, there is a form that has a few checks with Cindy's name on them. They are from a restaurant. It lists her as a server. It's in small writing.
I wonder if she had to have several jobs to support everyone?

Why would Cindy be cashing checks at a check cashing place, she has a bank account - is Casey using Cindy's name to get work? That would be strange but Casey did like pretend to be other people instead of herself

panthera
11-27-2008, 06:15 PM
There are no kiddie porn charges against Casey, and I imagine there would be if LE found pornographic pics of Caylee on the computer.
That's true.

panthera
11-27-2008, 06:17 PM
No - if a child is at the scene of lets say Casey and her flavor of the night doing the deed - is not a sex crime - it's child neglect but not a sex crime -
Oh ~ thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure where that "behavior" would fall.

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 06:22 PM
I know this is a HORRIBLE subject but we know Casey would do anything for money. Could she be taking pics of Caylee and selling them? I don't even want to think about it, but George said Casey did alot of bad things and regardless will be in jail for a long time. Even if Caylee is alive and well somewhere else according to George, Casey is STILL going to be going to jail for a long time. Something to ponder,.. jmo

Thats exactly where my head is at, and I dont like it one bit. Lots of peodophiles have been busted in orlando. Could pics of caylee have been in child pn library that LE found?
Did one of the men arrested name KC to get a lighter sentence?
This seems way out there, but the whole case is nuts.
And really, its not that 'out there' if we are hearing about thousands of pics- they are all somebodys children.

If they were busted at disney, then i'm sure theres some at universal too. Considering she was employed by kodak and colourvision, she could have been approached then- these sick perverts love their photos that can be used over and over..

The fact that she continued to return to universal may be because she was taking pics of kids there. Who would question a young woman with such a lovely smile taking pics of their children?

Or i could be way off base and its just another error in paperwork.... I hope its an error for caylees sake.

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-27-2008, 06:26 PM
Happy Thanksgiving One and All! :blowkiss:

Out of all the new information we have received from this latest document dump, what has bothered me the most is Cindy washing the perps pants.

First let me say that when Cindy washed those pants, she knew exactly what she was doing, no doubt in my mind (moo).

But what bothers me sooooo much is Caylee's baby doll, mama. It had a cloth body, so you know that the baby doll had also absorbed the decomp smell.

Instead of washing the pants, to destroy evidence....you would think that Cindy would wash mama so that when her granddaughter came home, she could love on her favorite treasure.

This small act speaks volumes to me.......If she thought Caylee was alive, any grandmother would of washed the doll and left the pants. But what does Cindy do? Washes the one piece of clothing that had evidence.

That is just one more example of Cindy knowing what happened and putting her daughter first; above precious Caylee.

As usual moo

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 06:27 PM
Happy Thanksgiving One and All! :blowkiss:

Out of all the new information we have received from this latest document dump, what has bothered me the most is Cindy washing the perps pants.

First let me say that when Cindy washed those pants, she knew exactly what she was doing, no doubt in my mind (moo).

But what bothers me sooooo much is Caylee's baby doll, mama. It had a cloth body, so you know that the baby doll had also absorbed the decomp smell.

Instead of washing the pants, to destroy evidence....you would think that Cindy would wash mama so that when her granddaughter came home, she could love on her favorite treasure.

This small act speaks volumes to me.......If she thought Caylee was alive, any grandmother would of washed the doll and left the pants. But what does Cindy do? Washes the one piece of clothing that had evidence.

That is just one more example of Cindy knowing what happened and putting her daughter first; above precious Caylee.

As usual moo

I have been thinking that for months!!!!!! Thanks for your post. :blowkiss:

tippytoes
11-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I had to look them up again! :)

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

Thank you!! My eyes were too blurry to go back! :blowkiss:

Page 39 is the "camping trip" check--so clearly written and signed by KC.

Page 41, the form is marked declined, could not be verified.

This stunt was Feb of 2008. maybe, because the funds weren't withdrawn, Cindy didn't know...but there sure was intent there. Camping trip? WTH?

marla
11-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I hope Nancy Grace has the balls to bring the 'abuse' allegations up.

EDIT: I'll take more of the guy that did the show last night. It was refreshing to hear someone distrusting Cindy. Nancy just won't go there and defends G & C too much.


I think tonight and tomorrow night Nancy is doing 'specials' on the case ..

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 06:29 PM
Happy Thanksgiving One and All! :blowkiss:

Out of all the new information we have received from this latest document dump, what has bothered me the most is Cindy washing the perps pants.

First let me say that when Cindy washed those pants, she knew exactly what she was doing, no doubt in my mind (moo).

But what bothers me sooooo much is Caylee's baby doll, mama. It had a cloth body, so you know that the baby doll had also absorbed the decomp smell.

Instead of washing the pants, to destroy evidence....you would think that Cindy would wash mama so that when her granddaughter came home, she could love on her favorite treasure.

This small act speaks volumes to me.......If she thought Caylee was alive, any grandmother would of washed the doll and left the pants. But what does Cindy do? Washes the one piece of clothing that had evidence.

That is just one more example of Cindy knowing what happened and putting her daughter first; above precious Caylee.

As usual moo

She knows Caylee is gone. I still wonder what else she found in the car when she cleaned it out, because we all know she did.

Janis396
11-27-2008, 06:39 PM
It is mind boggling to me also. I keep thinking back to if only CA's mother had pressed charges with taking their money that Caylee might be alive today. :( MOO

Her PARENTS should have turned her in when she stole $4,400 from them when she forged a deposit slip and then claimed she'd been robbed at gun point. That happened long before she stole from her grandmother.

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 06:44 PM
There are no kiddie porn charges against Casey, and I imagine there would be if LE found pornographic pics of Caylee on the computer.

Thanks chilly, thats true- now I can get it out of my head.

Have you got any ideas on why the SCU would be involved?

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 06:46 PM
[QUOTE=rozey;2996521]

But they have the option of ticking others like child abuse or missing persons. so why sex crimes?


That is an interesting question, just remember that mr. lead investigators wife works in sex crimes. Seems a little odd, just thought I would pointing that out. Not to mention that in a lot of overworked departments, sex crimes, and child abuse are the same division.

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 06:46 PM
Her PARENTS should have turned her in when she stole $4,400 from them when she forged a deposit slip and then claimed she'd been robbed at gun point. That happened long before she stole from her grandmother.

Despite the talk of Cindy getting advice from the therapist on how to get custody of Caylee, and despite her apparently frequent arguments with Casey over Casey's bad parenting, I don't believe she truly wanted custody. If she did, all she had to do was have Casey charged with any of these thefts.

Did anyone really care about that poor baby? :mad:

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 06:48 PM
I'd like more proof other than just Casey's word before having this a topic on Nancy's show. LA isn't the one who has been charged with murder and sitting in jail either and may just be completely innocent of any wrongdoing. MOO

I completely agree, Panthera. I'm just flabbergasted that so many people who wouldn't believe a word Casey says otherwise are so anxious to leap onto the sexual abuse and incest bandwagon.

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 06:51 PM
If I had stolen that much money from my mom, she would not have hesitated to have me arrested. CA really is an enabler. Yes, KC is a liar and a thief, but she has never been held accountable for her actions, at least she hasn't until now.

CA is an enabler and GA is the enabler's enabler because he never had the wherewithall to stand up to CA and demand that something be done about this. Except this goes so far beyond what you would think of as enabling it should probably have its own word.

Janis396
11-27-2008, 06:52 PM
Despite the talk of Cindy getting advice from the therapist on how to get custody of Caylee, and despite her apparently frequent arguments with Casey over Casey's bad parenting, I don't believe she truly wanted custody. If she did, all she had to do was have Casey charged with any of these thefts.

Did anyone really care about that poor baby? :mad:

It sure looks like complete strangers care more about Caylee at this point than her own family does, doesn't it? Talk is cheap, and the family's actions tell the REAL story about what's most important to them.

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 06:52 PM
I completely agree, Panthera. I'm just flabbergasted that so many people who wouldn't believe a word Casey says otherwise are so anxious to leap onto the sexual abuse and incest bandwagon.


Maybe because it's so common and a good deal of the people who actually were molested weren't believed at least at first. No matter the vic, no one would want to accuse someone of lying about molestation, because those of us that have been there know how hard it was to tell and how much harder it was to hear that we were lying about it. JMO.

belladonna
11-27-2008, 06:52 PM
Despite the talk of Cindy getting advice from the therapist on how to get custody of Caylee, and despite her apparently frequent arguments with Casey over Casey's bad parenting, I don't believe she truly wanted custody. If she did, all she had to do was have Casey charged with any of these thefts.

Did anyone really care about that poor baby?



I have had the same feeling about CA not really wanting custody.... because she didn't seem interested in who the nanny was and I've never heard anything about questioning Casey.. and KC taking her for 3 or 4 days to who knows where......

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-27-2008, 06:54 PM
I just read all the pdfs and I wish I had noted the page number, but was anyone else surprised that KC had cashed checks, in the past, at the Amscot where her car was abandoned?

I know it was close to the A house, but it still caught me off guard that she had a history of going there. Anyone else, or is it just me?


It caught me off guard......and IIRC, during her interview with the Det.'s didn't they ask if she had cashed a check and she said no and then went on to say that she had never been there, just happened to be where her car ran out of gas.

To me, one of the checks from Cindy to Casey, it looks like Casey it the one who wrote the check, not Cindy.


Like you, I can't remember which PDF they are in either.:crazy:

cocoamom
11-27-2008, 06:56 PM
OK, regarding the One Tree Hill search on her computer - get ready for more reading! Here is a synopsis of each season. See if any names jump out at you and if any of the characters sound like "players" in KC's real life!! It's kind of twisted, but I can see her trying to plug some of this into her crazy head!

IMO
Dan=GA
Haley = KC
Nathan = JG
Brooke = Annie
Haley = KC
Karen = CA
lots more!

There was a "Quentin"(sp?) in KC's cell phone - one in this show too.
There is an Andy
A Nathan
A little girl named Lily
A nanny who is psychopathic and kidnaps a boy named Jamie (4 1/2 yrs old)
A Rachael

Oh, I can't even begin to tell you how many similarities there are...this is spooky that a KC would seem to try to "live" a television show!!! Drugs, "dark place", betrayal, sex, cheating, not graduating due to pregnancy, lying about a pregnancy to the supposed father, miscarriage, on and on and on...

LINK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Tree_Hill_(TV_series)#Season_1

panthera
11-27-2008, 06:56 PM
Thank you!! My eyes were too blurry to go back! :blowkiss:

Page 39 is the "camping trip" check--so clearly written and signed by KC.

Page 41, the form is marked declined, could not be verified.

This stunt was Feb of 2008. maybe, because the funds weren't withdrawn, Cindy didn't know...but there sure was intent there. Camping trip? WTH?
I've been hopping around between the documents so I'd forgotten just which one those checks were on and had to look again. I noticed there were two checks, one on 02/05 and the second one on 02/08, both for this "camping trip". The form is for the 2nd one, saying "two checks in clearing" and the denial. :waitasec: Maybe CA's bank was suspicious of the first one 3 days earlier that she hadn't written the check?

tippytoes
11-27-2008, 06:57 PM
It caught me off guard......and IIRC, during her interview with the Det.'s didn't they ask if she had cashed a check and she said no and then went on to say that she had never been there, just happened to be where her car ran out of gas.

To me, one of the checks from Cindy to Casey, it looks like Casey it the one who wrote the check, not Cindy.


Like you, I can't remember which PDF they are in either.:crazy:

Panthera found them!! Originally Posted by panthera
I had to look them up again!

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

And yes, I was shocked because I *know* she said she wasn't a customer there...it's just where she and some guys pushed the car when it ran out of gas. I know she lies, yet it threw me because (again) it was an obvious and easily provable lie.

absolut_alexis
11-27-2008, 06:58 PM
Despite the talk of Cindy getting advice from the therapist on how to get custody of Caylee, and despite her apparently frequent arguments with Casey over Casey's bad parenting, I don't believe she truly wanted custody. If she did, all she had to do was have Casey charged with any of these thefts.

Did anyone really care about that poor baby?
snipped

I've thought a lot about this. I used to wonder the same thing, but I think CA cared deeply about Caylee's safety. Maybe on some level she knew that pushing Casey about custody could lead to no one having custody.

panthera
11-27-2008, 07:00 PM
I think tonight and tomorrow night Nancy is doing 'specials' on the case ..
Yes she is, in an hour! Tonight's is supposed to be "the first 24 hours". I think these were already taped and not 'live' since it is a holiday. MOO :)

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 07:01 PM
OK, regarding the One Tree Hill search on her computer - get ready for more reading! Here is a synopsis of each season. See if any names jump out at you and if any of the characters sound like "players" in KC's real life!! It's kind of twisted, but I can see her trying to plug some of this into her crazy head!

IMO
Dan=GA
Haley = KC
Nathan = JG
Brooke = Annie
Haley = KC
Karen = CA
lots more!

There was a "Quentin"(sp?) in KC's cell phone - one in this show too.
There is an Andy
A Nathan
A little girl named Lily
A nanny who is psychopathic and kidnaps a boy named Jamie (4 1/2 yrs old)
A Rachael

Oh, I can't even begin to tell you how many similarities there are...this is spooky that a KC would seem to try to "live" a television show!!! Drugs, "dark place", betrayal, sex, cheating, not graduating due to pregnancy, lying about a pregnancy to the supposed father, miscarriage, on and on and on...

LINK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Tree_Hill_(TV_series)#Season_1


I don't have the time to look it up right now, any similarities between the NAthan on the show and Nate, AL's roomate at Sutton Place? the same name thing grabbed me.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 07:01 PM
Yes she is, in an hour! Tonight's is supposed to be "the first 24 hours". I think these were already taped and not 'live' since it is a holiday. MOO :)

Yes! I completely forgot.

Janis396
11-27-2008, 07:02 PM
Panthera found them!! Originally Posted by panthera
I had to look them up again!

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

And yes, I was shocked because I *know* she said she wasn't a customer there...it's just where she and some guys pushed the car when it ran out of gas. I know she lies, yet it threw me because (again) it was an obvious and easily provable lie.

Yes, but in Casey's world, she always got away with ANY lie she told, so she didn't care how obvious it was. Mama was always there to cover up for her.

natsound
11-27-2008, 07:03 PM
Where did everyone see How to Make Household weapons in the search histories? I have only seen Household Weapons, which is a big difference, at least to me.

WESH documents, batch 10, page 49 and the top of 50.

panthera
11-27-2008, 07:04 PM
Her PARENTS should have turned her in when she stole $4,400 from them when she forged a deposit slip and then claimed she'd been robbed at gun point. That happened long before she stole from her grandmother.
Just too many people overlooked and excused her behavior until it was too late for Caylee, imo. I agree with you, but also remember that despite this forged deposit slip, GA even put Casey as a signatory on Caylee's college trust fund, so she could help herself to it and drained it down to $5. MOO

nomoresorrow
11-27-2008, 07:04 PM
I completely agree, Panthera. I'm just flabbergasted that so many people who wouldn't believe a word Casey says otherwise are so anxious to leap onto the sexual abuse and incest bandwagon.



Your so right! As a SAS myself I've carefully looked at everything that I can find for docs surrounding her disclosures as well as putting them in context of all other docs to get a complete picture of the situation(s) & circumstance(s) that were going on around the time of disclosures - I do not believe her. (and I don't casually make an opinion about SA charges)

panthera
11-27-2008, 07:05 PM
Panthera found them!! Originally Posted by panthera
I had to look them up again!

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

And yes, I was shocked because I *know* she said she wasn't a customer there...it's just where she and some guys pushed the car when it ran out of gas. I know she lies, yet it threw me because (again) it was an obvious and easily provable lie.
Is this any different though than her taking LE to Universal to her "office"??? She's remarkable, isn't she? :eek: MOO

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 07:06 PM
WESH documents, batch 10, page 49 and the top of 50.

Thank you, I hadn't gotten that far yet, between turkey and pie, I haven't gotten through set 2 yet.

maconrich
11-27-2008, 07:08 PM
I think she may blame Cindy for forcing her to go through with the pregnancy. But wasn't she pretty far along in her pregnancy before Cindy ever found out? Was she far enough along to be past the abortion limits?

Right. But I'm sure KC knew she was pregnant months before Cindy found out. If there was a chance that she was carrying her brother's child I do believe she would have been tested and terminated the pregnancy after missing a period or two at the most.

I wouldn't expect her or anyone else to have an abortion at 7-8 months... I just don't feel for a second it would have gotten to that point or that Cindy would have ever known KC was pregnant - much less with Lee's child.

cocoamom
11-27-2008, 07:10 PM
I don't have the time to look it up right now, any similarities between the NAthan on the show and Nate, AL's roomate at Sutton Place? the same name thing grabbed me.

I don't think so, I haven't watched, I just read the synopsis. The Nathan in the read seemed to me to be more JG than Nate the roommate. Just strange that she surrounds herself with either people with the same names as the show or diff. names, but storyline of the show!

~~LA~~
11-27-2008, 07:11 PM
This is exactly what I was thinking last night while reading the thoughts about LA potentially being Caylee's father. KC isn't stupid, and I believe that if there was any chance Lee could have been the father she would have had an abortion faster than she can text a message! She wouldn't have had to worry about Cindy or anyone else wanting her to keep the baby because she wouldn't have stayed pregnant long enough to even show! (And I see nothing to indicate that she has any morals that might make her rule out abortion as an option.)



And as far as her having a 'Cinderella Complex' - well that's not something I see either. She clearly thinks she's 'all that' and her behavior is more egotistical / narcissist than indicative of someone lacking self esteem. Granted she might have wanted a man to take care of her but IMO that's because she felt entitled to it. Plus I'm sure it was hard work maintaining her charade of having a pretend career while her parents were taking care of all her financial needs.

I wonder how many more lives she'll destroy before all is said and done...


~Happy Thanksgiving!~

Has it crossed anyone's mind that perhaps she never intended on revealing her pregnancy to begin with? There have been cases where some people have given birth, and get rid of/dispose the baby immediately afterward. 7 months of pregnancy is an awful long time to hide, and the only way the secret really 'came out' according to Uncle Rick, is when he said something. Just makes me wonder..

ExpectingUnicorns
11-27-2008, 07:11 PM
Maybe because it's so common and a good deal of the people who actually were molested weren't believed at least at first. No matter the vic, no one would want to accuse someone of lying about molestation, because those of us that have been there know how hard it was to tell and how much harder it was to hear that we were lying about it. JMO.

I'm sorry that you understand so much about this. Your opinion is valuable on this subject and gave me extra pause to rethink. Thank you.

natsound
11-27-2008, 07:13 PM
I've thought a lot about this. I used to wonder the same thing, but I think CA cared deeply about Caylee's safety. Maybe on some level she knew that pushing Casey about custody could lead to no one having custody.

I think CA and GA really, really loved Caylee, but they just aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. They turned a blind eye to KC's antics over and over and over again.

You can see and hear how much they loved her by watching the videos and looking at the pictures. CA is beaming with pride in that picture in the pool.

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 07:14 PM
Here is the episode of One Tree Hill that Casey googled.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1032104/synopsis more at link
Alright, it's time for that kidnapping we've all been waiting for! Skills lets Jamie go to the bathroom by himself, but nanny Carrie intercepts him and talks him into leaving with her. She says that Haley is allowing them to hang out again, and since poor Jamie doesn't know any better he believes it.
Nathan grabs the cops and tells them that Dan ran off with Jamie. However, little do they know that he's really in nanny Carrie's motel room and about to get his hair dyed black. This will help the two of them evade the police now that Carrie is his "new mommy." Carrie leaves Jamie alone at the motel so she can go out and run an errand, but she's unaware of the fact that Dan is sitting outside watching her.

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 07:15 PM
[QUOTE=butwhatif?;2996584]


That is an interesting question, just remember that mr. lead investigators wife works in sex crimes. Seems a little odd, just thought I would pointing that out. Not to mention that in a lot of overworked departments, sex crimes, and child abuse are the same division.

Its just interesting because on the same date (12 SEPT )the same LEO signed a statement and ticked the child abuse option for referral.
And the biggest issue is that the satements do not follow. I want to know why?

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 07:16 PM
Your so right! As a SAS myself I've carefully looked at everything that I can find for docs surrounding her disclosures as well as putting them in context of all other docs to get a complete picture of the situation(s) & circumstance(s) that were going on around the time of disclosures - I do not believe her. (and I don't casually make an opinion about SA charges)

As a survivor of sexual abuse as well, I do believe her. Just because she has lied about almost everything else doesn't mean this is a lie. I was told I was lying when I finally told my mom about my father molesting me.

I just don't get the feeling KC was lying in this case.

KansasCutie
11-27-2008, 07:18 PM
OK, regarding the One Tree Hill search on her computer - get ready for more reading! Here is a synopsis of each season. See if any names jump out at you and if any of the characters sound like "players" in KC's real life!! It's kind of twisted, but I can see her trying to plug some of this into her crazy head!

IMO
Dan=GA
Haley = KC
Nathan = JG
Brooke = Annie
Haley = KC
Karen = CA
lots more!

There was a "Quentin"(sp?) in KC's cell phone - one in this show too.
There is an Andy
A Nathan
A little girl named Lily
A nanny who is psychopathic and kidnaps a boy named Jamie (4 1/2 yrs old)
A Rachael

Oh, I can't even begin to tell you how many similarities there are...this is spooky that a KC would seem to try to "live" a television show!!! Drugs, "dark place", betrayal, sex, cheating, not graduating due to pregnancy, lying about a pregnancy to the supposed father, miscarriage, on and on and on...

LINK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Tree_Hill_(TV_series)#Season_1

Small side note - CA would totally be "Deb" (Dan's wife). She is a crazy pill popper mom. She has alot of mental and financial problems and lies ALOT and hates Dan so much that she wants to murder him. She is now dating her son's (nathan) best friend....half her age!

Janis396
11-27-2008, 07:18 PM
Just too many people overlooked and excused her behavior until it was too late for Caylee, imo. I agree with you, but also remember that despite this forged deposit slip, GA even put Casey as a signatory on Caylee's college trust fund, so she could help herself to it and drained it down to $5. MOO

He probably thought that as much of a liar and thief that Casey was, even SHE wouldn't sink to the level of stealing her own little girl's money. And then she takes it one step further, and even cleans out Caylee's little piggy bank! Omg, that one just infuriated me! :furious:

panthera
11-27-2008, 07:20 PM
Has it crossed anyone's mind that perhaps she never intended on revealing her pregnancy to begin with? There have been cases where some people have given birth, and get rid of/dispose the baby immediately afterward. 7 months of pregnancy is an awful long time to hide, and the only way the secret really 'came out' according to Uncle Rick, is when he said something. Just makes me wonder..
Yes I thought of that ~ she might have intended to get rid of little Caylee right after birth. Sadly, that happens more often than not in this world. Otherwise it just doesn't make much sense to not tell anybody about it, especially since was legally an adult and could've terminated the pregnancy early on if she knew about it in time to do so. MOO

panthera
11-27-2008, 07:21 PM
He probably thought that as much of a liar and thief that Casey was, even SHE wouldn't sink to the level of stealing her own little girl's money. And then she takes it one step further, and even cleans out Caylee's little piggy bank! Omg, that one just infuriated me! :furious:
Even after listening to GA's interviews, I still can't figure out when she started doing this. I think it might go to premeditation, like "Caylee won't be using this money, she's going to be dead anyway". :mad: MOO

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 07:22 PM
I'm sorry that you understand so much about this. Your opinion is valuable on this subject and gave me extra pause to rethink. Thank you.


I still haven't made up my mind about whether I buy her story or not. I'm still thinking about it. But, I have this policy of always at least considering an abuse story no matter who tells it. My father was a molester, currently serving 55-99 for multiple counts. There was a "Casey" in our family,( my sister) crazy stories all the time, a kid that she pawned off on whomever, stealing, sleeping around, whatever she wanted. Our family found out that she was pregnant, after months of pressuring her, she refused to give up the name of the father, finally she blurted out that it was our father, said he had raped her. needless to say, no one bought it. Until the baby was born and DNA testing showed that she was telling the truth.
That is probably the reason that I am so hesitant to disbelieve Caseys story. I think that she may have elaborated a releatively minor incident, if sh eisn't flat out lying, but I just can't make up my mind.

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 07:24 PM
As a survivor of sexual abuse as well, I do believe her. Just because she has lied about almost everything else doesn't mean this is a lie. I was told I was lying when I finally told my mom about my father molesting me.

I just don't get the feeling KC was lying in this case.

I am sorry about your experience. :blowkiss: Been there, but I was so young that i couldn't put it so anyone would understand.

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 07:24 PM
Maybe because it's so common and a good deal of the people who actually were molested weren't believed at least at first. No matter the vic, no one would want to accuse someone of lying about molestation, because those of us that have been there know how hard it was to tell and how much harder it was to hear that we were lying about it. JMO.

Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 07:27 PM
I still haven't made up my mind about whether I buy her story or not. I'm still thinking about it. But, I have this policy of always at least considering an abuse story no matter who tells it. My father was a molester, currently serving 55-99 for multiple counts. There was a "Casey" in our family,( my sister) crazy stories all the time, a kid that she pawned off on whomever, stealing, sleeping around, whatever she wanted. Our family found out that she was pregnant, after months of pressuring her, she refused to give up the name of the father, finally she blurted out that it was our father, said he had raped her. needless to say, no one bought it. Until the baby was born and DNA testing showed that she was telling the truth.
That is probably the reason that I am so hesitant to disbelieve Caseys story. I think that she may have elaborated a releatively minor incident, if sh eisn't flat out lying, but I just can't make up my mind.

People tend to automatically assume a victim of sexual abuse is lying even if they aren't. I know, because I lived it. Earlier when it was mentioned that LA might be Caylee's father I didn't believe it. Now, after the recent documents, I believe that abuse might have been going on. I'm not saying that LA is Caylee's father, but I'm not ready to say that KC was lying about the abuse.

panthera
11-27-2008, 07:27 PM
I still haven't made up my mind about whether I buy her story or not. I'm still thinking about it. But, I have this policy of always at least considering an abuse story no matter who tells it. My father was a molester, currently serving 55-99 for multiple counts. There was a "Casey" in our family,( my sister) crazy stories all the time, a kid that she pawned off on whomever, stealing, sleeping around, whatever she wanted. Our family found out that she was pregnant, after months of pressuring her, she refused to give up the name of the father, finally she blurted out that it was our father, said he had raped her. needless to say, no one bought it. Until the baby was born and DNA testing showed that she was telling the truth.
That is probably the reason that I am so hesitant to disbelieve Caseys story. I think that she may have elaborated a releatively minor incident, if sh eisn't flat out lying, but I just can't make up my mind.
I'll admit, what you've said about your sister does sound a lot like Casey's behavior. :waitasec: MOO

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 07:27 PM
As a survivor of sexual abuse as well, I do believe her. Just because she has lied about almost everything else doesn't mean this is a lie. I was told I was lying when I finally told my mom about my father molesting me.

I just don't get the feeling KC was lying in this case.

I'm profoundly sorry for anyone who experiences this, but I feel that some of you who are survivors are personalizing the issue perhaps a bit too much. None of you can be compared to Casey in any way.

impatientredhead
11-27-2008, 07:31 PM
As a survivor of sexual abuse as well, I do believe her. Just because she has lied about almost everything else doesn't mean this is a lie. I was told I was lying when I finally told my mom about my father molesting me.

I just don't get the feeling KC was lying in this case.

I am a survivor as well, raised with a BPD mother that so reminds me of Cindy, and a stepfather that stood by silently while through years of her abuse and insanity. So I can definitely see sexual abuse being a viable option for the list of things that have happened to Casey, but even as a survivor and getting how serious the issue is and how horrible it is not to be believed when you do tell someone I don't believe her.

There are many reasons I don't. She has lied about everything including the color of the sky being just one of them. I actually feel bad for Lee that this is out there unsubstantiated like this. We have seen that Cindy will trash Casey to her friends and lovers. She told Ryan Casey was a sociopath, humilated in front of Jesse, made quite the first impression on Tony. Lee tells Tony that he would have warned him about his sister had there been an earlier opportunity, George tells the cops she is lying and holding back, there is no real loyalty in this family at all. Not even when discussing family members with relative strangers. Casey has reason to paint her family members in a bad light to her friends as a preemptive strike for when these family members start spilling her secrets and warning her friends about Casey.

I wonder what poor Mallory is thinking at this point. She already had the future mother in law from hell to deal with. The public humilation they have created for themselves. The loss of Caylee. The stress of the Casey circus. And now she has to wonder if Lee is or isn't a sexual predator (and if it is true I would assume a sexual abuse survivor as well? As a survivor (really hate that label personally) this would be a major issue for me if a future intended spouse was clearly from this level of dysfunction and then had this allegation hanging out there. Especially if I wanted to have kids with this person.

tiredofthis
11-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

I know I'm too sensitive about it, but it's difficult not to be.

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 07:34 PM
Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

Like I said before, I haven't made up my mind, I think that she may have elaborated on one minro event, if anything, but you never know. I am definitely not arguing that she's telling the truth. And even if she is, it's no excuse. If I had killed my kids because I was abused, I would still deserve a healthy helping of the death penalty. Period.

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 07:36 PM
Perhaps those who are geniune victims of sexual abuse are too sensitive about the issue of not being believed and are going too far in believing Casey because of this. In other words, if you are a victim, don't let your experiences color your reaction.

I think everyone on this board wants to think no one would lie about such a thing, but when someone lies about everything else, I have to think this is a lie as well.

Unless its the secrecy and shame of the abuse that got the victim into the habit of lying.
Perps dont say' feel free to tell anyone about this'...they say 'dont tell, or else'.
And if the victim finds the courage to tell someone they trust, and they are not believed(which happens all too often) this would validate the 'live in silence, and deny deny deny' concept, which then becomes a way of life.

Clearly this doesnt apply to all victims, just the ones that stay victims, instead of evolving into survivors, imo.

not_my_kids
11-27-2008, 07:37 PM
I'll admit, what you've said about your sister does sound a lot like Casey's behavior. :waitasec: MOO


We still don't know how long it was going on in my family, at least with her. It may have been the one incident alone, or it may have been ongoing for years. Mentally, my sister is too far gone to tell us now.

ETA: since i forgot the point of this post it was this: We aren't sure if there was ongoing abuse that caused her to behave the way she did (lying and stealing) or the abuse was just coincidnetal, after the fact and had nothing to do with her prior behavior.

I can't spell tonight, too much turkey. lol

ThoughtElf
11-27-2008, 07:44 PM
I'm profoundly sorry for anyone who experiences this, but I feel that some of you who are survivors are personalizing the issue perhaps a bit too much. None of you can be compared to Casey in any way.

I agree.

I'd extend that thought to also include the many threads and posts that include 'comparative' pyschiatric diagnosis of KC and the A's, based upon personal experiences.

I appreciate reading, and am often moved by the courage many here have displayed in moving forwards, without letting their own personal hurdles to ultimately impact they way they choose to live their lives. Many are deserving of both sympathy and kudos.

That said, each individual is unique. As is each scenario.

I've yet to read a post here from a victim, diagnosed sufferer or anyone else that I would put in the same category as KC. Or even CA.

It's very educational to share and learn, but unfortunately, KC's circumstances are/were unique, too.

I also find myself relating to certain things that are done, said and supposed, but on the other hand, I know that I lived my experiences, not theirs.

Bottom-line is that while many here are wise and have walked the walk, I don't personally believe that anyone here has had the exact circumstances in play emotionally, with the exact same real or imagined abuses, with psych over-lays and whatnot, in play in exactly the same manner.

We have to stand back a bit and use our knowledge to try to understand and to educate, without assuming that our experience IS the same as KC's. Some aspects MAY BE similiar, but just as your own have their own nuances, so to does KC's.

Hope that makes sense.

My heart goes out to each and every one of you have have survived SA, emotional abuse, physical abuse and/or pyschiatric dysfunctions in your lives. BTDT, just remember that YOUR story is YOUR own - and should never be judged, minimized or lumped into a 'like' basket with others, just because they understand. Nor should KC's.

She chose a path NONE of us have. That's the difference that should be remembered when trying to draw like parallels.

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-27-2008, 07:45 PM
Panthera found them!! Originally Posted by panthera
I had to look them up again!

Part 5 starting at pg. 37 of the pdf.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155477.pdf

And yes, I was shocked because I *know* she said she wasn't a customer there...it's just where she and some guys pushed the car when it ran out of gas. I know she lies, yet it threw me because (again) it was an obvious and easily provable lie.

Thank you tippytoes and Panthera. I could not find them if I was paid. I stayed up until 4:45 this morning reading, then got up at 7:30. I am still cross-eyed.:crazy:

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-27-2008, 07:48 PM
Just too many people overlooked and excused her behavior until it was too late for Caylee, imo. I agree with you, but also remember that despite this forged deposit slip, GA even put Casey as a signatory on Caylee's college trust fund, so she could help herself to it and drained it down to $5. MOO

I know! Why in the h*ll would he do that? I laughed to myself while watching the FBI video with George. Said to myself, "d*mn George, if you knew she was taking the money out of the piggy bank, why did you keep putting money in there?" :crazy: He plays the victim well, I bet the FBIGuys thought the same.

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-27-2008, 07:50 PM
Right. But I'm sure KC knew she was pregnant months before Cindy found out. If there was a chance that she was carrying her brother's child I do believe she would have been tested and terminated the pregnancy after missing a period or two at the most.

I wouldn't expect her or anyone else to have an abortion at 7-8 months... I just don't feel for a second it would have gotten to that point or that Cindy would have ever known KC was pregnant - much less with Lee's child.

She knew she was pregnant in January. IIRC that is when she texted Jessie and told him she was pregnant and he was the father.

If what I have bolded in your post was true, IMHO I would think that Casey would see this as an asset.....always having the upper hand and enjoy blackmailing the A's.

ExpectingUnicorns
11-27-2008, 07:53 PM
This is a way too sensitive subject for this forum to be able to appreciate properly, except to understand that this is a lot more common than most realize. The best we can take away from this discussion, I think, is that it would be difficult to know if the lies are a result of abuse or created the fantasy. Thank God there are many survivors who are not victims -- and certainly wouldn't condone the fact that any kind of abuse could excuse murdering your child.

lucy54
11-27-2008, 08:09 PM
ok, here's what I don't get. If KC really was uncomfortable around LA because of what she alleges - why doesn't she act that way? She and LA are very close, she admits it and so does CA. I don't get it.

I am not sure whether I believe the allegations KC made against her brother Lee to Jesse and Tony. My gut instinct is that there is truth to it. I have taught sexually abused children who share many similar traits to KC. Also, sometimes people who are sexually abused are very loyal to the person who does it to them. Especially if no one believes them and the abuse continues on. They can stay close to the person and pretend as if it never happened. Oprah had an episode on this a few years back where 2 women were SA by their dad's best friend. Their dad even knew about it and basically pretended like it never happened. And for years they still went on vacations with this man and celebrated holidays with him.

If Lee did sexually assault KC, then I can understand why she has such severe problems. I do not think it's an excuse for murdering her daughter though and she still needs to be fully punished.

MD MOMMY
11-27-2008, 08:16 PM
I'm confused about the AR part. I thought we heard that he lied when asked about a realationship with KC and that is why he was let go from the police department? No where in the section about him and the incident does it say that he lied at first. It just says that he admitted to it. I wonder why he got fired then?

MD MOMMY
11-27-2008, 08:36 PM
http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155618.pdf
Here is the IMs with Lassen.

Don't know if this has been mentioned but his name is Iassen. Just to remove some confusion.

shelbar53
11-27-2008, 08:55 PM
Remember when Cindy told LE that she knows who the father is, they went to a lawyer and some legal papers drawn up to name them custodian of caylee in case anything happened to casey. she couldnt remember Erics last name but had the paperwork at home.

LE looked into that and checked with the lawyer and he knew NOTHING about it, never even heard of an Eric. Another example of cindy lieing to LE. What is wrong with her, didnt she think LE would follow up on that.

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 09:05 PM
I agree.

I'd extend that thought to also include the many threads and posts that include 'comparative' pyschiatric diagnosis of KC and the A's, based upon personal experiences.

I appreciate reading, and am often moved by the courage many here have displayed in moving forwards, without letting their own personal hurdles to ultimately impact they way they choose to live their lives. Many are deserving of both sympathy and kudos.

That said, each individual is unique. As is each scenario.

I've yet to read a post here from a victim, diagnosed sufferer or anyone else that I would put in the same category as KC. Or even CA.

It's very educational to share and learn, but unfortunately, KC's circumstances are/were unique, too.

I also find myself relating to certain things that are done, said and supposed, but on the other hand, I know that I lived my experiences, not theirs.

Bottom-line is that while many here are wise and have walked the walk, I don't personally believe that anyone here has had the exact circumstances in play emotionally, with the exact same real or imagined abuses, with psych over-lays and whatnot, in play in exactly the same manner.

We have to stand back a bit and use our knowledge to try to understand and to educate, without assuming that our experience IS the same as KC's. Some aspects MAY BE similiar, but just as your own have their own nuances, so to does KC's.

Hope that makes sense.

My heart goes out to each and every one of you have have survived SA, emotional abuse, physical abuse and/or pyschiatric dysfunctions in your lives. BTDT, just remember that YOUR story is YOUR own - and should never be judged, minimized or lumped into a 'like' basket with others, just because they understand. Nor should KC's.

She chose a path NONE of us have. That's the difference that should be remembered when trying to draw like parallels.

Well said, Potatohead. You're obviously no potato head. :)

gardenhart
11-27-2008, 09:08 PM
I know I'm too sensitive about it, but it's difficult not to be.

I know. :blowkiss:

One of the things that manipulative people do is play upon others' most sensitive feelings.

MIL
11-27-2008, 09:13 PM
zanny 23 up (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zanny#), 16 down (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zanny#)http://www.urbandictionary.com/images/thumbsup.gif (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zanny#)http://www.urbandictionary.com/images/thumbsdown.gif (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zanny#)Alprazolam. More commonly known as Xanax. A short acting benzodiazepine used to treat anxiety.
Don't ya just love wakin up in the morning after droppin a few zannys and having no idea what happened for the past 12 hours?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zanny

Nosey Parker
11-27-2008, 09:18 PM
At least we now know the shovel wasn't used to bust into the shed to get the gas cans - AL admitted to using a tire iron.

panthera
11-27-2008, 09:20 PM
Thank you tippytoes and Panthera. I could not find them if I was paid. I stayed up until 4:45 this morning reading, then got up at 7:30. I am still cross-eyed.:crazy:
Oh you're most welcome. :) I still haven't gone through all the documents yet, just kind of hit and miss when I find something interesting. Tomorrow I should be able to read more of them.

panthera
11-27-2008, 09:26 PM
I know! Why in the h*ll would he do that? I laughed to myself while watching the FBI video with George. Said to myself, "d*mn George, if you knew she was taking the money out of the piggy bank, why did you keep putting money in there?" :crazy: He plays the victim well, I bet the FBIGuys thought the same.
It was funny with him describing putting money in that piggy bank and knowing it was heavy then it wasn't (Casey had emptied it) so he puts more money in, and on it goes... :floorlaugh:

panthera
11-27-2008, 09:27 PM
I'm confused about the AR part. I thought we heard that he lied when asked about a realationship with KC and that is why he was let go from the police department? No where in the section about him and the incident does it say that he lied at first. It just says that he admitted to it. I wonder why he got fired then?
What part and page is he on? :)

MD MOMMY
11-27-2008, 09:28 PM
At least we now know the shovel wasn't used to bust into the shed to get the gas cans - AL admitted to using a tire iron.

I would find it odd if my husband wanted me to break into his parents shed to retrieve gas..that is so flippin' weird that he thought it made sense since she lived there.

MD MOMMY
11-27-2008, 09:29 PM
Okay I read all the docs yesterday there was one part with a document of CA's I believe that said something about IHOP..what is that? Is it IHOP like in the breakfast restaurant? It looked like deposits??? Anyone who has read it, do you know what it is???

FootballMom
11-27-2008, 09:37 PM
Okay I read all the docs yesterday there was one part with a document of CA's I believe that said something about IHOP..what is that? Is it IHOP like in the breakfast restaurant? It looked like deposits??? Anyone who has read it, do you know what it is???

If you notice the handwritten notes underneath that particular Cynthia A. you'll see a little triangle that in medical shorthand means diagnosis/process of elimination... in other words it was determined to be a different Cynthia A.

panthera
11-27-2008, 09:43 PM
I would find it odd if my husband wanted me to break into his parents shed to retrieve gas..that is so flippin' weird that he thought it made sense since she lived there.
Well I don't really find TL to be the most upstanding citizen of the year anyway. :cool: MOO

BeanE
11-27-2008, 09:47 PM
Throughout these documents I'm seeing references from a number of different people about Cindy threatening to get custody of Caylee. It's been bothering me. I've been thinking and thinking about it, and I've come to the conclusion that these constant threats of taking custody of Caylee are very likely the biggest reason Casey took off, and possibly the biggest reason Casey killed Caylee.

My reasoning:

It's always stated as an absolute. She's going to get custody. Not *try* to get custody. It's always stated definitely as if all she has to do is appear before a judge and custody will be given to her.

There are never reasons given. You can't gain custody of your grandchild unless you have reasons, and those reasons have to be strong ones. Like definite, proven abuse.

I'm not saying by any means that Casey was a good parent. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can get custody of your grandchild because you claim your daughter steals (there are no court records to prove this), your daughter goes out and parties a lot (no evidence of drug use), your daughter doesn't support your granchild (you've been supporting her and never withdrawn that support so no way to say that your daughter wouldn't have supported your grandchild just fine.)

So what you have, in essence, is long-term repeated empty threats of taking custody. And the person Cindy is making these threats to already has an underlying big resentment towards Cindy.

Now recall back to the time when Cindy and George were scheduling visits with Casey in jail and Casey was cancelling them. Cindy said, laughing in a snotty kind of way, that she and Casey had "a little tit-for-tat" going back and forth.

Recall also in that phone call when Casey said "don't bother coming up here for the hearing", and Lee actually got upset, saying something about "you're trying to cut us out". As if it was some privelege to get to go to someone's hearing. Whoa. That's backwards. The family was doing Casey a favor by going to the hearing to support her.

So we have two very volatile personalities, very angry and resentful, and we see how making threats to each other is something they use as a way to try to stay in control/gain control over the other. And those tit-for-tat games are... spiteful.

Now recall Casey saying on 6/15 the reason she wouldn't take Cindy to see Caylee is because "maybe I'm a spiteful *****". This said at a voice level that, according to Lee, Cindy would definitely hear.

I can soooo imagine these two in a fight and Cindy calling Casey a spiteful *****. And I can soooo see Casey with all that anger and resentful building and building, saying to herself "well you want to call me a spiteful *****? I'll show you just how much of a spiteful ***** I can be. I'll teach you." The ultimate tit-for-tat game, that once and for all ensures that Casey wins.

I probably haven't laid this out very well, but the psychology behind what happened in those last few months, building and building in the final weeks, and then the final days, until Casey killed Caylee, is becoming more and more clear to me as learn more and more about this family.

Please note that I'm not at all saying that Casey snapped or exploded. It actually makes more sense that she would have thought for a very long time about killing Caylee. She would have relished it. Killing Caylee was game, set, and match.

MOO. Your thoughts?

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 09:49 PM
In CA's fbi interview when asked about if casey had suffered any kind of abuse, she said 'not that i know of'
But she seemed to use 'not that I know of' to answer questions that she did know, but wishes she didnt know.

Yet KC says she told her mom about abuse...

In a family of liars, which lie do you believe?

The other thing thats bugging me is if she told her b/f that *** tried to have sex with her, that would mean she wasnt sexually abused. He tried, she said no, end of story. sick yes, but it would not explain all of her behaviours from one small incident imo. He didnt say that the abuse ever actually occurred, only that he tried.
I hate all these riddles, and i'm giving up on to trying to figure it out. just keep going around in circles.

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 09:52 PM
BeanE
very good,.. thats what I have been thinking all along...Just don't have right words to put it down on paper (or computer lol)
You said exactly what I have been thinking!

BeanE
11-27-2008, 09:56 PM
I would find it odd if my husband wanted me to break into his parents shed to retrieve gas..that is so flippin' weird that he thought it made sense since she lived there.

Casey could have been building him up with tales of woe about her family, turning him against them, building his resentment towards them. Just in case she needed him to do something nasty to them.

And this could have been a test to see if she had built up that resentment in him enough to gain enough power over him to get him to do something immoral at her request.

This would be pretty typical behavior of a sociopath, although they usually prefer to act alone, rather than with someone else. Casey is an odd duck though.

Makes for juicy speculation anyway lol. (I do think she was planning on killing Cindy and George, and it makes sense to me that she would have at least played with the idea of having one of her many boyfriends help her.)

BeanE
11-27-2008, 10:00 PM
BeanE
very good,.. thats what I have been thinking all along...Just don't have right words to put it down on paper (or computer lol)
You said exactly what I have been thinking!

It's REALLY hard to put into words because it's all so subtle yet complex, and all entwined. Glad I made at least some sense lol.

CentralFLMama
11-27-2008, 10:07 PM
I agree 100% BeanE. Well said.

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 10:16 PM
Throughout these documents I'm seeing references from a number of different people about Cindy threatening to get custody of Caylee. It's been bothering me. I've been thinking and thinking about it, and I've come to the conclusion that these constant threats of taking custody of Caylee are very likely the biggest reason Casey took off, and possibly the biggest reason Casey killed Caylee.

My reasoning:

It's always stated as an absolute. She's going to get custody. Not *try* to get custody. It's always stated definitely as if all she has to do is appear before a judge and custody will be given to her.

There are never reasons given. You can't gain custody of your grandchild unless you have reasons, and those reasons have to be strong ones. Like definite, proven abuse.

I'm not saying by any means that Casey was a good parent. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can get custody of your grandchild because you claim your daughter steals (there are no court records to prove this), your daughter goes out and parties a lot (no evidence of drug use), your daughter doesn't support your granchild (you've been supporting her and never withdrawn that support so no way to say that your daughter wouldn't have supported your grandchild just fine.)

So what you have, in essence, is long-term repeated empty threats of taking custody. And the person Cindy is making these threats to already has an underlying big resentment towards Cindy.

Now recall back to the time when Cindy and George were scheduling visits with Casey in jail and Casey was cancelling them. Cindy said, laughing in a snotty kind of way, that she and Casey had "a little tit-for-tat" going back and forth.

Recall also in that phone call when Casey said "don't bother coming up here for the hearing", and Lee actually got upset, saying something about "you're trying to cut us out". As if it was some privelege to get to go to someone's hearing. Whoa. That's backwards. The family was doing Casey a favor by going to the hearing to support her.

So we have two very volatile personalities, very angry and resentful, and we see how making threats to each other is something they use as a way to try to stay in control/gain control over the other. And those tit-for-tat games are... spiteful.

Now recall Casey saying on 6/15 the reason she wouldn't take Cindy to see Caylee is because "maybe I'm a spiteful *****". This said at a voice level that, according to Lee, Cindy would definitely hear.

I can soooo imagine these two in a fight and Cindy calling Casey a spiteful *****. And I can soooo see Casey with all that anger and resentful building and building, saying to herself "well you want to call me a spiteful *****? I'll show you just how much of a spiteful ***** I can be. I'll teach you." The ultimate tit-for-tat game, that once and for all ensures that Casey wins.

I probably haven't laid this out very well, but the psychology behind what happened in those last few months, building and building in the final weeks, and then the final days, until Casey killed Caylee, is becoming more and more clear to me as learn more and more about this family.

Please note that I'm not at all saying that Casey snapped or exploded. It actually makes more sense that she would have thought for a very long time about killing Caylee. She would have relished it. Killing Caylee was game, set, and match.

MOO. Your thoughts?

Makes sense. I'd love to know exactly what CA talked to her therapist about, and i think we would get a lot closer to the real truth.
Maybe CA did suspect back then that more was going on than theft. Maybe she did know about abuse, neglect, and whatever else may have been going on.
Is there any way that those records could be supeoned, since it relates to a homicide investigation? I doubt that they would but i think those records would help the case alot.

MysteryAddict
11-27-2008, 10:18 PM
BeanE-- Great job! I also agree.

Manny
11-27-2008, 10:35 PM
[QUOTE=BeanE;2997170]Throughout these documents I'm seeing references from a number of different people about Cindy threatening to get custody of Caylee. It's been bothering me. I've been thinking and thinking about it, and I've come to the conclusion that these constant threats of taking custody of Caylee are very likely the biggest reason Casey took off, and possibly the biggest reason Casey killed Caylee.

My reasoning:

It's always stated as an absolute. She's going to get custody. Not *try* to get custody. It's always stated definitely as if all she has to do is appear before a judge and custody will be given to her.

There are never reasons given. You can't gain custody of your grandchild unless you have reasons, and those reasons have to be strong ones. Like definite, proven abuse.

I'm not saying by any means that Casey was a good parent. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can get custody of your grandchild because you claim your daughter steals (there are no court records to prove this), your daughter goes out and parties a lot (no evidence of drug use), your daughter doesn't support your granchild (you've been supporting her and never withdrawn that support so no way to say that your daughter wouldn't have supported your grandchild just fine.)

So what you have, in essence, is long-term repeated empty threats of taking custody. And the person Cindy is making these threats to already has an underlying big resentment towards Cindy.

Now recall back to the time when Cindy and George were scheduling visits with Casey in jail and Casey was cancelling them. Cindy said, laughing in a snotty kind of way, that she and Casey had "a little tit-for-tat" going back and forth.

Recall also in that phone call when Casey said "don't bother coming up here for the hearing", and Lee actually got upset, saying something about "you're trying to cut us out". As if it was some privelege to get to go to someone's hearing. Whoa. That's backwards. The family was doing Casey a favor by going to the hearing to support her.

So we have two very volatile personalities, very angry and resentful, and we see how making threats to each other is something they use as a way to try to stay in control/gain control over the other. And those tit-for-tat games are... spiteful.

Now recall Casey saying on 6/15 the reason she wouldn't take Cindy to see Caylee is because "maybe I'm a spiteful *****". This said at a voice level that, according to Lee, Cindy would definitely hear.

I can soooo imagine these two in a fight and Cindy calling Casey a spiteful *****. And I can soooo see Casey with all that anger and resentful building and building, saying to herself "well you want to call me a spiteful *****? I'll show you just how much of a spiteful ***** I can be. I'll teach you." The ultimate tit-for-tat game, that once and for all ensures that Casey wins.
I bolded the that line , sorry I am not doing to well here in clipping part of your post. I apologize.

It is interesting that Casey chooses the dialogue for the mysterious NANNY and says " I will teach you a lesson , *****"
In that moment maybe Casey was the Nanny. This is one strange family.
I agree that is probably her motivation. I feel she really hates her mother.
Did you ever notice Caylee's little gesture reaching up and touching her hair with both hand on the top of her head, she looks like Cindy. All the little mannerism she picked from Cindy must have driven Casey wild. She also favors Cindy in her looks. Doesn't really look like Casey at all.

butwhatif?
11-27-2008, 10:39 PM
Casey could have been building him up with tales of woe about her family, turning him against them, building his resentment towards them. Just in case she needed him to do something nasty to them.

And this could have been a test to see if she had built up that resentment in him enough to gain enough power over him to get him to do something immoral at her request.

This would be pretty typical behavior of a sociopath, although they usually prefer to act alone, rather than with someone else. Casey is an odd duck though.

Makes for juicy speculation anyway lol. (I do think she was planning on killing Cindy and George, and it makes sense to me that she would have at least played with the idea of having one of her many boyfriends help her.)

(bolding is mine)
I was thinking along the same lines. BUt that in order to maintain her seperate worlds (so all the lies would not come out), she needed friends and bf's to keep away from her family. Saying that they were abusers would keep most people away, imo, and would make them untrusting of the A's from the get go. It could also explain why the A's only met many of her friends after KC was arrested.

Do we know if the A's had life insurance and who the beneficiary was?

And another weird thought. If she told TonE about abuse and she was also telling him that caylee was babysat by her family most of the time, why didnt that set off alarm bells to him? I know he's a young guy, but wouldnt most people say' maybe you should find someone else to look after your kid, if you were abused, arent you worried they might abuse her too'?

panthera
11-27-2008, 10:41 PM
BeanE-- Great job! I also agree.
I just read the post also and I agree too. Great thoughts and analysis, imo!

panthera
11-27-2008, 10:45 PM
(respectfully snipped)


In that moment maybe Casey was the Nanny. This is one strange family.
I agree that is probably her motivation. I feel she really hates her mother.
Did you ever notice Caylee's little gesture reaching up and touching her hair with both hand on the top of her head, she looks like Cindy. All the little mannerism she picked from Cindy must have driven Casey wild. She also favors Cindy in her looks. Doesn't really look like Casey at all.
I just wanted to point out this part and agree that resentment toward her mother may have been part of the basis for Casey's resentment of Caylee and led to her death. I do think Caylee looked a lot like CA. And yes, it probably did bother Casey a lot. MOO

tippytoes
11-27-2008, 10:52 PM
I just wanted to point out this part and agree that resentment toward her mother may have been part of the basis for Casey's resentment of Caylee and led to her death. I do think Caylee looked a lot like CA. And yes, it probably did bother Casey a lot. MOO

There's an old saying about resentment: "Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other guy to die."

In this case, it's actually true. Casey was trying to punish Cindy and she exacted her revenge and anger through Caylee. Beyond sad.

ThoughtElf
11-27-2008, 10:54 PM
Well said, Potatohead. You're obviously no potato head. :)

Nuh-uh. I really am a Spud Head - mashed, scalloped, boiled and baked.

But, I do agree entirely with your statements.

shelbar53
11-27-2008, 11:03 PM
I think it was an IMPLUSIVE act of revenge aganist her mother after that fight. It obvioulsy wasnt planned out and thank goodness for that or she would have gotten away with it. Im wondering if she is rewinding things in her head and thinking "if only" I would have used Amy's money for a ticket to calif instead of food and cloths. "If only" I would have disposed of the body BEFORE it began to decomposr and smell. I do wonder what those night terrors were about, I dont think it was about being caught.....I think she thought she could get away with it.

Hailiejade77
11-27-2008, 11:14 PM
I think it was an IMPLUSIVE act of revenge aganist her mother after that fight. It obvioulsy wasnt planned out and thank goodness for that or she would have gotten away with it. Im wondering if she is rewinding things in her head and thinking "if only" I would have used Amy's money for a ticket to calif instead of food and cloths. "If only" I would have disposed of the body BEFORE it began to decomposr and smell. I do wonder what those night terrors were about, I dont think it was about being caught.....I think she thought she could get away with it.

bold is mine:
I think she was afraid that she just killed her daughter for a man that doesn't really want to be with her and stay with her. jmo

txsvicki
11-27-2008, 11:18 PM
I haven't had time to read the whole thread or documents, but noticed that KC claims to have told CA about abuse. I'm confused if Casey claims to have been abused by Lee or someone else for years or if it's the one incident.

chefmom
11-27-2008, 11:44 PM
yes it seems that way. I don't think anything she was going to say would be truthful though. jmo

Highly doubtful that she would have come clean. She was probably just trying to buy some time, possibly weave some more lies, like she did when she took LE to Universal where she supposedly worked. I still have trouble understanding that one! She must have been lying to CA & GA and getting away with it for so long that she actually thought she could just lie to LE and get away with it? Blows my mind!

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-27-2008, 11:52 PM
Throughout these documents I'm seeing references from a number of different people about Cindy threatening to get custody of Caylee. It's been bothering me. I've been thinking and thinking about it, and I've come to the conclusion that these constant threats of taking custody of Caylee are very likely the biggest reason Casey took off, and possibly the biggest reason Casey killed Caylee.

My reasoning:

It's always stated as an absolute. She's going to get custody. Not *try* to get custody. It's always stated definitely as if all she has to do is appear before a judge and custody will be given to her.

There are never reasons given. You can't gain custody of your grandchild unless you have reasons, and those reasons have to be strong ones. Like definite, proven abuse.

I'm not saying by any means that Casey was a good parent. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can get custody of your grandchild because you claim your daughter steals (there are no court records to prove this), your daughter goes out and parties a lot (no evidence of drug use), your daughter doesn't support your granchild (you've been supporting her and never withdrawn that support so no way to say that your daughter wouldn't have supported your grandchild just fine.)

So what you have, in essence, is long-term repeated empty threats of taking custody. And the person Cindy is making these threats to already has an underlying big resentment towards Cindy.

Now recall back to the time when Cindy and George were scheduling visits with Casey in jail and Casey was cancelling them. Cindy said, laughing in a snotty kind of way, that she and Casey had "a little tit-for-tat" going back and forth.

Recall also in that phone call when Casey said "don't bother coming up here for the hearing", and Lee actually got upset, saying something about "you're trying to cut us out". As if it was some privelege to get to go to someone's hearing. Whoa. That's backwards. The family was doing Casey a favor by going to the hearing to support her.

So we have two very volatile personalities, very angry and resentful, and we see how making threats to each other is something they use as a way to try to stay in control/gain control over the other. And those tit-for-tat games are... spiteful.

Now recall Casey saying on 6/15 the reason she wouldn't take Cindy to see Caylee is because "maybe I'm a spiteful *****". This said at a voice level that, according to Lee, Cindy would definitely hear.

I can soooo imagine these two in a fight and Cindy calling Casey a spiteful *****. And I can soooo see Casey with all that anger and resentful building and building, saying to herself "well you want to call me a spiteful *****? I'll show you just how much of a spiteful ***** I can be. I'll teach you." The ultimate tit-for-tat game, that once and for all ensures that Casey wins.

I probably haven't laid this out very well, but the psychology behind what happened in those last few months, building and building in the final weeks, and then the final days, until Casey killed Caylee, is becoming more and more clear to me as learn more and more about this family.

Please note that I'm not at all saying that Casey snapped or exploded. It actually makes more sense that she would have thought for a very long time about killing Caylee. She would have relished it. Killing Caylee was game, set, and match.

MOO. Your thoughts?

:clap::clap::clap:You said it very well BeanE. Just wanted to add, Cindy even threatened Child Services when she was on hold during her second 911 call. That poor child was a pawn, she was used by both of the mothers in her life.

Worst part, they used the love Caylee had for each of them against each other. Most families would cherish this priceless gift and Cindy and KC used that child til she couldn't be used anymore. Sick, sick, sick.:furious:

gardenhart
11-28-2008, 12:23 AM
Throughout these documents I'm seeing references from a number of different people about Cindy threatening to get custody of Caylee. It's been bothering me. I've been thinking and thinking about it, and I've come to the conclusion that these constant threats of taking custody of Caylee are very likely the biggest reason Casey took off, and possibly the biggest reason Casey killed Caylee.

My reasoning:

It's always stated as an absolute. She's going to get custody. Not *try* to get custody. It's always stated definitely as if all she has to do is appear before a judge and custody will be given to her.

There are never reasons given. You can't gain custody of your grandchild unless you have reasons, and those reasons have to be strong ones. Like definite, proven abuse.

I'm not saying by any means that Casey was a good parent. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can get custody of your grandchild because you claim your daughter steals (there are no court records to prove this), your daughter goes out and parties a lot (no evidence of drug use), your daughter doesn't support your granchild (you've been supporting her and never withdrawn that support so no way to say that your daughter wouldn't have supported your grandchild just fine.)

So what you have, in essence, is long-term repeated empty threats of taking custody. And the person Cindy is making these threats to already has an underlying big resentment towards Cindy.

Now recall back to the time when Cindy and George were scheduling visits with Casey in jail and Casey was cancelling them. Cindy said, laughing in a snotty kind of way, that she and Casey had "a little tit-for-tat" going back and forth.

Recall also in that phone call when Casey said "don't bother coming up here for the hearing", and Lee actually got upset, saying something about "you're trying to cut us out". As if it was some privelege to get to go to someone's hearing. Whoa. That's backwards. The family was doing Casey a favor by going to the hearing to support her.

So we have two very volatile personalities, very angry and resentful, and we see how making threats to each other is something they use as a way to try to stay in control/gain control over the other. And those tit-for-tat games are... spiteful.

Now recall Casey saying on 6/15 the reason she wouldn't take Cindy to see Caylee is because "maybe I'm a spiteful *****". This said at a voice level that, according to Lee, Cindy would definitely hear.

I can soooo imagine these two in a fight and Cindy calling Casey a spiteful *****. And I can soooo see Casey with all that anger and resentful building and building, saying to herself "well you want to call me a spiteful *****? I'll show you just how much of a spiteful ***** I can be. I'll teach you." The ultimate tit-for-tat game, that once and for all ensures that Casey wins.

I probably haven't laid this out very well, but the psychology behind what happened in those last few months, building and building in the final weeks, and then the final days, until Casey killed Caylee, is becoming more and more clear to me as learn more and more about this family.

Please note that I'm not at all saying that Casey snapped or exploded. It actually makes more sense that she would have thought for a very long time about killing Caylee. She would have relished it. Killing Caylee was game, set, and match.

MOO. Your thoughts?

Yes, yes, yes. Very insightful, BeanE.

It was so incredibly stupid of Cindy to threaten instead of simply acting. I imagine Casey got a lot of threats throughout her life that Cindy never followed through, which is part of the problem. Cindy is also, I think, like Casey a very impulsive person who does and says things without thinking out the best course of action or consequences.

I do disagree on one point to a point. No, she couldn't get custody by claiming her daughter was stealing. But she certainly had the proof to have her daughter convicted of stealing.

She could have put a number of things in motion without saying a word until she was ready to act, including getting proof that her daughter was a neglectful mother, using drugs, etc., that would have helped her make a case for getting custody.

I really don't think she wanted custody.

I can't even convince myself that she only threatened because she didn't realize how bad and dangerous the situation was. If she was glossing over and convincing herself it wasn't that bad she wouldn't have seen a therapist about it.

I sorrowfully can only conclude that poor Caylee had no one who cared enough about her to put aside the destructive emotional games and do what was best for her.

gardenhart
11-28-2008, 12:26 AM
I think it was an IMPLUSIVE act of revenge aganist her mother after that fight. It obvioulsy wasnt planned out and thank goodness for that or she would have gotten away with it. Im wondering if she is rewinding things in her head and thinking "if only" I would have used Amy's money for a ticket to calif instead of food and cloths. "If only" I would have disposed of the body BEFORE it began to decomposr and smell. I do wonder what those night terrors were about, I dont think it was about being caught.....I think she thought she could get away with it.

Reading backwards so I just saw your post. Impulsivity is a real problem in this family.

gardenhart
11-28-2008, 12:27 AM
Nuh-uh. I really am a Spud Head - mashed, scalloped, boiled and baked.

But, I do agree entirely with your statements.

Well, I do love taters and I have to add fried to your list. LOL

mitzi
11-28-2008, 03:27 AM
It aired MARCH 18th...


right around the time of the other searches. hmmmm.:waitasec:

debs
11-28-2008, 03:41 AM
In CA's fbi interview when asked about if casey had suffered any kind of abuse, she said 'not that i know of'
But she seemed to use 'not that I know of' to answer questions that she did know, but wishes she didnt know.

Yet KC says she told her mom about abuse...

In a family of liars, which lie do you believe?

The other thing thats bugging me is if she told her b/f that *** tried to have sex with her, that would mean she wasnt sexually abused. He tried, she said no, end of story. sick yes, but it would not explain all of her behaviours from one small incident imo. He didnt say that the abuse ever actually occurred, only that he tried.
I hate all these riddles, and i'm giving up on to trying to figure it out. just keep going around in circles.


Just to clear one thing up here for you: In Cindy's FBI interview, when asked the question whether there was any type of abuse (sexual, mental, physical, substance) in the house hold, Cindy's posture in the chair changed, got defensive, and her answer was "No." said very meek and nearly childish. That was it. One word. She never elaborated on this question, unlike every question before and after.

Chilly Willy
11-28-2008, 03:52 AM
At least we now know the shovel wasn't used to bust into the shed to get the gas cans - AL admitted to using a tire iron.

George should press charges.

Friday
11-28-2008, 04:37 AM
I think it's hilarious that when Casey was practicing writing her "married" name, she misspelled Tony's last name several ways.

That aside, I thiink she was planning to steal one of his checks and claim to be his new wife when she signed and cashed it. If she'd just been daydreaming how her married name would look, why did she cross out most of her attempts?

Just a thought...

Friday
11-28-2008, 04:47 AM
Oh yes I saw that check too. It's amazing she got away with these forgeries. MOO I'd have to go back and look at it again to see if it went through or not, but I've forgotten where in the documents it is now.

I noticed she listed Jesse Grund as her spouse on her original Amscot application.

Dutchie Treat
11-28-2008, 05:11 AM
And another weird thought. If she told TonE about abuse and she was also telling him that caylee was babysat by her family most of the time, why didnt that set off alarm bells to him? I know he's a young guy, but wouldnt most people say' maybe you should find someone else to look after your kid, if you were abused, arent you worried they might abuse her too'?

I don't think KC told TonE (or anyone else for that matter) much "truth" or otherwise about herself and her life.

He seemed very hurt and indignant when he texted her after Caylee had turned up "missing", asking her "why didn't you tell me??? I'm your boyfriend".

He loved KC I think and was hurt to find out that there were so many secrets. There are other "paramours" that are secretly hurting now behind closed doors I believe because of what is coming to light about the object of their affections, Miss KC. There are probably some guys right now thanking their God for what ever reason it was that KC did NOT want a relationship with them (think about Will???).

Friday
11-28-2008, 05:13 AM
Remember when Cindy told LE that she knows who the father is, they went to a lawyer and some legal papers drawn up to name them custodian of caylee in case anything happened to casey. she couldnt remember Erics last name but had the paperwork at home.

LE looked into that and checked with the lawyer and he knew NOTHING about it, never even heard of an Eric. Another example of cindy lieing to LE. What is wrong with her, didnt she think LE would follow up on that.

Are you saying the lawyer know nothing about drawing up paper re custody, or that he didn't know anything about Eric?

OneLostGrl
11-28-2008, 05:18 AM
Unless its the secrecy and shame of the abuse that got the victim into the habit of lying.
Perps dont say' feel free to tell anyone about this'...they say 'dont tell, or else'.
And if the victim finds the courage to tell someone they trust, and they are not believed(which happens all too often) this would validate the 'live in silence, and deny deny deny' concept, which then becomes a way of life.

Clearly this doesnt apply to all victims, just the ones that stay victims, instead of evolving into survivors, imo.

Great post!

GingBreade
11-28-2008, 05:27 AM
I don't think KC told TonE (or anyone else for that matter) much "truth" or otherwise about herself and her life.

He seemed very hurt and indignant when he texted her after Caylee had turned up "missing", asking her "why didn't you tell me??? I'm your boyfriend".

He loved KC I think and was hurt to find out that there were so many secrets. There are other "paramours" that are secretly hurting now behind closed doors I believe because of what is coming to light about the object of their affections, Miss KC. There are probably some guys right now thanking their God for what ever reason it was that KC did NOT want a relationship with them (think about Will???).

I agree, except for the part that TonE loved her...he just felt betrayed and didn't know wtf was going on...as for Will, she came to his house the morning after the nothing but clothes party at 9:30 a.m. and they didn't leave until 11:30 a.m. to go to IKEA for house furnishings...hmm I wonder what they talked about during that time? :waitasec:

Will and all the rest should be thanking their lucky stars that she didn't want much to do with them, as she was too busy working.:bang:

OneLostGrl
11-28-2008, 05:52 AM
I agree.

I'd extend that thought to also include the many threads and posts that include 'comparative' pyschiatric diagnosis of KC and the A's, based upon personal experiences.

I appreciate reading, and am often moved by the courage many here have displayed in moving forwards, without letting their own personal hurdles to ultimately impact they way they choose to live their lives. Many are deserving of both sympathy and kudos.

That said, each individual is unique. As is each scenario.

I've yet to read a post here from a victim, diagnosed sufferer or anyone else that I would put in the same category as KC. Or even CA.

It's very educational to share and learn, but unfortunately, KC's circumstances are/were unique, too.

I also find myself relating to certain things that are done, said and supposed, but on the other hand, I know that I lived my experiences, not theirs.

Bottom-line is that while many here are wise and have walked the walk, I don't personally believe that anyone here has had the exact circumstances in play emotionally, with the exact same real or imagined abuses, with psych over-lays and whatnot, in play in exactly the same manner.

We have to stand back a bit and use our knowledge to try to understand and to educate, without assuming that our experience IS the same as KC's. Some aspects MAY BE similiar, but just as your own have their own nuances, so to does KC's.

Hope that makes sense.

My heart goes out to each and every one of you have have survived SA, emotional abuse, physical abuse and/or pyschiatric dysfunctions in your lives. BTDT, just remember that YOUR story is YOUR own - and should never be judged, minimized or lumped into a 'like' basket with others, just because they understand. Nor should KC's.

She chose a path NONE of us have. That's the difference that should be remembered when trying to draw like parallels.

While you make some good points I think some others are just not very informed to be honest. In order to be diagnosed with an illness one must meet certain criteria. Everyone must meet approx. 4 of 7 "symptoms" of an illness, otherwise you cannot be given a diagnosis. Everyone has to meet the same criteria, it does not change depending on the person. If you don't have these specific symptoms then you do not have this illness.

So, while of course no one here has had the "exact" experiences as one another or as Casey, many of the actions and behaviors of people with the same illness are lumped into a "like" basket. How on earth do you think studies are done? Where do you think statistics come from?! Why do you think they interview serial killers to try to get into their mind and understand why they do what they do? Why would there be self-help groups and types of therapy that are illness specific? How would psychiatrists and therapists be able to author books that are illness specific and have overwhelming praise for their descriptions of the illness if our symptoms are all that different from each others?

OneLostGrl
11-28-2008, 05:59 AM
I noticed she listed Jesse Grund as her spouse on her original Amscot application.

huh. no kidding? I didn't even notice that.

Bobbisangel
11-28-2008, 07:19 AM
I am trying to figure out I can read the new docs that just came out. When I click on the pdf..I think that is right...all I get is a little square on the upper left hand corner of my screen..it is red, white, and blue. Do I need to download something? If so what would that be? Thanks ahead of time.

natsound
11-28-2008, 07:21 AM
At least we now know the shovel wasn't used to bust into the shed to get the gas cans - AL admitted to using a tire iron.


Yeah. Now we gotta figure out why dipschwitz (KC) had to do an internet search for that so-hard-to-understand word "shovel". :bang:

madeleine
11-28-2008, 07:26 AM
Yeah. Now we gotta figure out why dipschwitz (KC) had to do an internet search for that so-hard-to-understand word "shovel". :bang:


:whistle: And btw she must be one of those persons who think that if you hit the delete button everything is gone.Live and learn. :whistle:

Winnts
11-28-2008, 07:36 AM
After reading this last set of docs it's quite obvious to me that Casey was not able to handle being a mother from the time she was pregnant on.

She apparantly was in denial that she was pregnant (along with her family). At 7 months she never addressed the issue.

I am also quite disturbed how Cindy did not let on to the FBI that they did not find out she was pregnant until 7 months. Instead she chose to go down the path with the FBI that she helped Casey introduce music to Caylee in the womb including Mozart etc. She created a false impression of Casey's pregnancy.

The Grunds stated that Casey dropped Caylee off there 3x a week while she worked. But we all know now she never went back to work after she had Caylee. It's apparant to me that she did not properly bond with that child or take to mothering. Otherwise she would not have been dropping that kid off so she could go to her fake job. She did not bond with that child even then instead she was dumping her on the Grunds until Mr Grund got wise.

This is not something that happenned recently. She had issues with Caylee and mothering since Caylee was born.

And just like Cindy did with the FBI, she ignored the 'red flags' during Caylees first 2 years of life and instead saw a wonderful 'mother of the year'.

MIL
11-28-2008, 08:16 AM
We've also learned Casey's father, George Anthony, spent part of his Thanksgiving alone as well.

George was seen driving by himself around downtown Orlando and Winter Park towing his "Where is Caylee billboard."

http://www.wftv.com/news/18159143/detail.html

tiredofthis
11-28-2008, 08:31 AM
We've also learned Casey's father, George Anthony, spent part of his Thanksgiving alone as well.

George was seen driving by himself around downtown Orlando and Winter Park towing his "Where is Caylee billboard."

http://www.wftv.com/news/18159143/detail.html

Now that is just sad. Maybe he couldn't stand to be cooped up in the house any longer.

MIL
11-28-2008, 08:33 AM
Now that is just sad. Maybe he couldn't stand to be cooped up in the house any longer.


thats pretty sad. the whole family is destroyed completely and forever. regardless of his history of gambling and cheating, i think he was the most forth coming in that family. he knows what happened imo.

madeleine
11-28-2008, 08:34 AM
Yes I agree,I am not one of his fans but sometimes I really don't know how he manages to survive all this.

MIL
11-28-2008, 08:37 AM
Yes I agree,I am not one of his fans but sometimes I really don't know how he manages to survive all this.


i dont think he has much of a choice. i dont think he wants to go live with his parents again. he might still leave in the near future

Elley Mae
11-28-2008, 08:38 AM
We've also learned Casey's father, George Anthony, spent part of his Thanksgiving alone as well.

George was seen driving by himself around downtown Orlando and Winter Park towing his "Where is Caylee billboard."

http://www.wftv.com/news/18159143/detail.html

When I read that yesterday, I thought KFN has got George doing this or they will pull the pics of Caylee, or George just wants to get out of the house. It sure is pathetic. When in fact he is the first one to say "decomposition".

MIL
11-28-2008, 08:40 AM
When I read that yesterday, I thought KFN has got George doing this or they will pull the pics of Caylee, or George just wants to get out of the house. It sure is pathetic. When in fact he is the first one to say "decomposition".

i agree-it makes them look like fools when they do this.
i'm surprised that they didnt comment on these docs yet. very quiet now.

housemaid25
11-28-2008, 09:04 AM
I just finished reading the doc's and I just wanna say, WOW! Rick really tells it like it is. no pussyfooting around with this guy. :clap:

SeriouslySearching
11-28-2008, 09:08 AM
i agree-it makes them look like fools when they do this.
i'm surprised that they didnt comment on these docs yet. very quiet now.Not much they can say when the docs and videos seem to verify things others have been saying are true.

MIL
11-28-2008, 09:10 AM
Not much they can say when the docs and videos seem to verify things others have been saying are true.


you know the funny part, is that they asked for it themselves.
prosecutor wanted gag order-they objected
prosecutor took the high road without comments-they went all over and dissed them

i knew this would happen :)

SeriouslySearching
11-28-2008, 09:28 AM
When you have people who are hellbent on destroying every one around them...they usually implode at some point. It is so difficult to continue hating others and blaming everyone else for your problems.

The Gag Order would have served no purpose since it would only silence the person who isn't talking anyway, imo.

LiveLoveLaughLiza
11-28-2008, 09:30 AM
At least we now know the shovel wasn't used to bust into the shed to get the gas cans - AL admitted to using a tire iron.

George should press charges.


Chilly, are you being serious? I can't tell. :) If you are, what purpose would it serve for George to press charges now? And if he did press charges, I would think he would have to include his daughter too. TIA

ExpectingUnicorns
11-28-2008, 09:35 AM
The new docs must contain some info re the visit to the lawyer by the A's to gain custody of Caylee in case anything happened to KC, because people have made reference to it on this forum. This really interests me. If the lawyer denies any such meeting (as posted here) it makes me wonder what CA's motive would have been to lie about it.

Can anyone tell me where I can find this in the new doc dump?

Sammiejam
11-28-2008, 09:50 AM
Are you saying the lawyer know nothing about drawing up paper re custody, or that he didn't know anything about Eric?


Exactly Friday. At the bottom of the page in a footnote it clearly states that LE contacted the lawyer in question and he new NOTHING of an Eric, nor did he draw up any paperwork concerning Caylee.

A bold and bare-faced LIE by CA concerning Caylees parentage.

ExpectingUnicorns
11-28-2008, 10:03 AM
Exactly Friday. At the bottom of the page in a footnote it clearly states that LE contacted the lawyer in question and he new NOTHING of an Eric, nor did he draw up any paperwork concerning Caylee.

A bold and bare-faced LIE by CA concerning Caylees parentage.

Sammiejam -- Thank you. I thought I had read it somewhere here. Do you have the reference to it in the new docs?

The only reason I can think of for CA to fabricate this story is to stop any further speculation about who fathered Caylee. Why is she working so hard to keep this a secret? Her effort has only highlighted this issue for me . . .

nickismom
11-28-2008, 10:16 AM
Sammiejam -- Thank you. I thought I had read it somewhere here. Do you have the reference to it in the new docs?

The only reason I can think of for CA to fabricate this story is to stop any further speculation about who fathered Caylee. Why is she working so hard to keep this a secret? Her effort has only highlighted this issue for me . . .

Why would she make up such an elaborate lie?
Why would they not pursue Daddy for child support if he was alive?
Why would they not apply for social security if Daddy was deceased?
Why would they tell Jesse that he was the father when KC and Jesse had not been together during the time of conception?
I am becoming more and more convinced that there is something (I mean someone) that this family is hiding.
Will someone please help me out here ~ I don't remember if there was a subpoena for Lee's DNA and, if so, when it occurred?

marla
11-28-2008, 10:29 AM
you know the funny part, is that they asked for it themselves.
prosecutor wanted gag order-they objected
prosecutor took the high road without comments-they went all over and dissed them

i knew this would happen :)


Ahhhhhhhh ..
Sweet Poetic Justice!

:D