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Valrico Analyzer
12-01-2008, 01:45 PM
I read this article as well and thought about posting it on the rumour thread simply because of the source, but...

I find it very interesting that the Anthony's back yard backs right up to the woods - the same woods that Suburban drive is on.

Could she have borrowed the neighbor's shovel, went out her back yard and through the woods to dig the grave and then return the shovel?

WOW! If you read back a few posts, I wondered why out of ALL the tips LE has, why they included the statements in the latest doc dump from the minors who found the rope and shallow hole off Suburban dr. (near the home)
note statement says " I did not contact the media with this information"

Notice NOTHING else has been said...by LE to media....and they usually disprove rumors...now comes the Enquirer..with the same story...which I know is a rag, but they do sometimes get it right. This area is where Kio KC and the other witness deposed by LE said they used to go to hang out.

and..."it's "near"....

SeriouslySearching
12-01-2008, 01:45 PM
I read this article as well and thought about posting it on the rumour thread simply because of the source, but...

I find it very interesting that the Anthony's back yard backs right up to the woods - the same woods that Suburban drive is on.

Could she have borrowed the neighbor's shovel, went out her back yard and through the woods to dig the grave and then return the shovel?I have often wondered about that particular area because of the access. If you drive down to Suburban and take a right...you are there. It has many small roads inside the wooded area which could be quite familiar to Casey or others in the fam. It would be a logical place to bury her, imo.

impatientredhead
12-01-2008, 02:15 PM
Exactly. If you read all these emails in succession they are discussing Casey being missing since June 2008 and are speculating what on earth the reason may be she is staying away from Cindy.

Too much overspeculating by some of you. It's quite clear imo.

I think many things are over analyzed and nitpicked, but I don't think the wording on this one is clear at all. If I am talking about my girlfriend who only has one child and acted odd during that pregnancy I wouldn't refer to that as the "last time she was pregnant", I would refer to that as when she was pregnant if there has only been one time. The last time she was pregnant does sound like there has been or there is suspected to be more than one time. JMO, and maybe the wording is odd.

Valrico Analyzer
12-01-2008, 03:02 PM
I percieved it as a GP who is not fond of her GD, dissing her to her sister, never thinking it would get out...nothing more.

But if you notice, she is crital of GA too....but nothing but roses for CA...typical protective mom who can't see her daughters shortcomings? SOUND FAMILAR??

gardenhart
12-01-2008, 03:16 PM
I think many things are over analyzed and nitpicked, but I don't think the wording on this one is clear at all. If I am talking about my girlfriend who only has one child and acted odd during that pregnancy I wouldn't refer to that as the "last time she was pregnant", I would refer to that as when she was pregnant if there has only been one time. The last time she was pregnant does sound like there has been or there is suspected to be more than one time. JMO, and maybe the wording is odd.

If you go back and read the original email carefully, it's pretty clear, especially if you read the date on the email, that she's speculating this summer on whether Casey is pregnant again. The prior pregnancy she's talking about is when Casey was pregnant with Caylee.

So, yeah, thanks to misreading, this email is being overspeculated and things are being read into it that weren't being said.

awakewriter
12-01-2008, 03:42 PM
If you go back and read the original email carefully, it's pretty clear, especially if you read the date on the email, that she's speculating this summer on whether Casey is pregnant again. The prior pregnancy she's talking about is when Casey was pregnant with Caylee.

So, yeah, thanks to misreading, this email is being overspeculated and things are being read into it that weren't being said.

ITA. The e-mail author is speculating Casey is pregnant because she is avoiding her mother. Last time she was pregnant, Cindy didn't know until Casey was 7 months along.

waiting4change
12-01-2008, 03:48 PM
WOW! If you read back a few posts, I wondered why out of ALL the tips LE has, why they included the statements in the latest doc dump from the minors who found the rope and shallow hole off Suburban dr. (near the home)
note statement says " I did not contact the media with this information"

Notice NOTHING else has been said...by LE to media....and they usually disprove rumors...now comes the Enquirer..with the same story...which I know is a rag, but they do sometimes get it right. This area is where Kio KC and the other witness deposed by LE said they used to go to hang out.

and..."it's "near"....





What became of this discovery? What was at the end of the rope???

worriedmom
12-01-2008, 03:51 PM
Around the same time someone is searching for "household weapons" and chloroform, they are also searching for One Tree Hill 100th episode. A quick search reveals that in this episode the grandfather finds the nanny hiding with a small kidnapped child.

Valrico Analyzer
12-01-2008, 03:56 PM
NOTHING and I mean NOTHING has ever been said further about it. They met Kio there (per recorded statement) and TES searched there...I truly believe this was original burial site. This is just another ace up the sleeve for prosecution. Discovery requires sharing of results,,but not the "results" of the result...i.e...we found something in car. Now you can go check it. By including these 3 random statements in the last discovery doc dump, they've fulfilled the discovery requirement...its up to the defense to figure out what they found, why they included it, etc..

Anyone know anything further??

Waddles
12-01-2008, 04:02 PM
I think many things are over analyzed and nitpicked, but I don't think the wording on this one is clear at all. If I am talking about my girlfriend who only has one child and acted odd during that pregnancy I wouldn't refer to that as the "last time she was pregnant", I would refer to that as when she was pregnant if there has only been one time. The last time she was pregnant does sound like there has been or there is suspected to be more than one time. JMO, and maybe the wording is odd.

Her friends say she said she miscarried this year, I think in doc 3

Secretsolver
12-01-2008, 04:04 PM
Around the same time someone is searching for "household weapons" and chloroform, they are also searching for One Tree Hill 100th episode. A quick search reveals that in this episode the grandfather finds the nanny hiding with a small kidnapped child.


If there had not been a strand of Caylee's hair in the trunk with the band of death around the root area, I would say this theory might be plausible.
But because of that hair, I personally don't think there is any kidnapping, no "nanny", no one watching this baby in another state.
The car wreaks of death, Mommy's clothing stank to high heaven, and the hair along with the internet searches on Chloroform and neck breaking- all add up to one thing. That baby is no longer alive.

Waddles
12-01-2008, 04:04 PM
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202321-2400%20f.pdf half way through, she miscarried

Friday
12-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Casey does not strike me as someone that does something she doesn't want to. I think her behavior shows that she does exactly what she wants to do.
I mention that because I think Casey chose to have Caylee of her own free will. She could have easily aborted the baby and told Cindy she fell down a flight of stairs. She made up fake accidents, strokes,jobs so she is fully capable. I don't think Cindy could have forced Casy into carrying a baby. it just doesn't fit.

I understand what you are saying and I think in certain circumstances KC could be considered a victim of sorts if some of the abuse or other issues are ever confirmed to be true. However, we are all blessed with free will and the ability to change our destiny and she made her choices as to what she wanted to become.

JBean, I posted this in another topic, but I'd really like you to see it, so I'll put it here and then delete it from the other thread (thus adhering to your "No Double Posts rule" :) ) ....

Although it pains me to empathize with KC in any way, I don't believe she felt she had any choice about keeping the baby. CA is a human steamroller and KC was in a hopelessly weak position; she was 18 years old, 7 months pregnant, no high school degree (yet?), unable to support herself, and about to give birth. If she'd dared to argue for giving the baby up for adoption, I can only imagine the sort of pressure and threats she'd have gotten from CA.

CA wanted that baby raised by them/her, and instead of resorting to pressure and threats to prevent an adoption, CA by her own words, painted a bright, happy picture of how life was going to be for KC and her baby. Then they rushed off to buy maternity clothes and see an ob/gyn. They were going to pull together and get through this as a family.

But here's what CA failed to tell KC: Once Caylee was born, CA was going to take total control. She was going to dictate, criticize, and compete with KC over Caylee's affection. She was going to usurp KC's place with Caylee whenever she chose. Although she had wanted to raise that baby and loved doing it, she was going to never let KC forget who paid the bills.

She would expect KC and later, her finace to abide by "house rules," and, if anyone objected to CA's rules, or anything else, she would be entitled to verbally flay and humiliate KC right in front of whoever it was.

Once the fiance was out of the way, KC would be expected to devote herself entirely to working and raising her child--that meant being home every evening even though she wasn't needed (or probably wanted) there. Any deviation or opposing desire to date, etc. would require permission and--if given--would result in incriminations about being an unfit mother.

I'm not expressing myself very well, I know. I just object to CA's ruthless determination to control and dominate everyone in her domain and still portray herself as the victim. Don't mistake me--I think KC is the daughter from hell. But I don't think the woman who raised her was any bargain either. Far, far from it.

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 04:21 PM
NOTHING and I mean NOTHING has ever been said further about it. They met Kio there (per recorded statement) and TES searched there...I truly believe this was original burial site. This is just another ace up the sleeve for prosecution. Discovery requires sharing of results,,but not the "results" of the result...i.e...we found something in car. Now you can go check it. By including these 3 random statements in the last discovery doc dump, they've fulfilled the discovery requirement...its up to the defense to figure out what they found, why they included it, etc..

Anyone know anything further??

Hmmm... I don't know anything further, but this is so interesting to me. Why would these statements be released unless they found something. It seems important to me.

laniefi
12-01-2008, 04:23 PM
What became of this discovery? What was at the end of the rope???

Whatever it was, it was not included in the documents that were just released.

I found it very odd that at the end of each statement they had written I did not contact the media or similar (in my own words).

That seems like a strange thing to state. I would think - we WILL not contact the media would have been more appropriate.

Maybe LE thought they had a leak and wanted to see if it was who they suspected?

Totally speculating here

laniefi
12-01-2008, 04:26 PM
I have often wondered about that particular area because of the access. If you drive down to Suburban and take a right...you are there. It has many small roads inside the wooded area which could be quite familiar to Casey or others in the fam. It would be a logical place to bury her, imo.

Yep, yep and "close to home"...

passionflower
12-01-2008, 04:32 PM
Yep, yep and "close to home"...

Has any locals walked through to look around that area? search?

Friday
12-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Katie R. who lives at Sawgrass.
In this doc dump this Katie was supposed to come and talk to LE. She never showed.
Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill on this? Any other thoughts on this.

Snipped by me.

No, Shadow I don't think you're doing that. Katie R didn't just fail to show up, she refused to cooperate with LE, when all they wanted her to do was name any friends of Casey's who lived at Sawgrass. After refusing, she told LE to talk to Vickie A who lives at Sawgrass and is a good friend of Casey's (supposedly).

However, the State's Witness list does not include Ms. Robinson or Ms. Aleman.

Interesting... Particularly the part about Katie R refusing to cooperate. What earthly reason would she have to refuse to cooperate? :confused:

gardenhart
12-01-2008, 04:39 PM
Her friends say she said she miscarried this year, I think in doc 3

As I recall, she told her friends about the miscarriage after running into someone named Brandon at a party, said he was the father.

Who knows if it was true. I could easily see her using that as her excuse for leaving the party. Perhaps she stole from him or had some other reason for avoiding him.

lastchance
12-01-2008, 04:43 PM
Just finished reading the emails between Rick, CA's brother, and CA. He cracks me up!!
My favorite is his insistence on an answer to the age old question, "Did anyone,other than Casey, ever see this babysitter?" Finally, someone putting her feet to the fire. I can only hope the Prosecution follows his lead at the trial.

laniefi
12-01-2008, 05:00 PM
Has any locals walked through to look around that area? search?

Not sure, but LE knew about it back on 9/12/2008 so I would assume they searched the area pretty well.

laniefi
12-01-2008, 05:03 PM
Also, if you look at the order of documents - the 5 witness statements about Suburban drive are in order. Then, there is a document from October about the Ricardo - chloroform picture/graphic...AND THEN

right after that is another document, same case # and references 5 witness statements attached and was coded - referred to SEX CRIMES!

laniefi
12-01-2008, 05:08 PM
The witness statements are hard to read in some parts, but the basic jist is - these people were searching for Caylee and were looking for Hopespring Drive but passed it and ended up at the end of the paved part of the road and there was a gate that was opened. They drove in and saw the disturbed soil and a tire track sunk in one spot. Then another witness said the soil with a line (or could be "tire" - too hard to read the print) in it like it was compacted. They dug in the disturbed area and got to a "pipe" of some sort.

All 5 statements have the same ending - I did not contact the media.

Here is the link: http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

Page 37 is where it starts.

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Also, if you look at the order of documents - the 5 witness statements about Suburban drive are in order. Then, there is a document from October about the Ricardo - chloroform picture/graphic...AND THEN

right after that is another document, same case # and references 5 witness statements attached and was coded - referred to SEX CRIMES!

:eek: :waitasec: :eek: :waitasec: :eek:

Can you tell me which set of docs the statements are in? I briefly read them when they came out, but I don't remember where they are. Thanks.

laniefi
12-01-2008, 05:16 PM
:eek: :waitasec: :eek: :waitasec: :eek:

Can you tell me which set of docs the statements are in? I briefly read them when they came out, but I don't remember where they are. Thanks.

Yes - I just edited my post above yours with the link.

Let me know what you think about some of the handwriting - it was hard for me to read.

Friday
12-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Ironically, quite shortly after that test was administered George moved out of the house and filed for divorce. We are led to believe that it was because of gambling debts which we now find out were paid for by a Workman's Comp claim and were of Nigerian scam descent.

George moved out of the house because he was already fed up with his daughter before she got pregnant, which then made her a slut in his eyes. He was disgusted and furious with Cindy because he was now expected to raise Casey's illegimate child and to continue putting up with Casey forever. That also meant he was going to have to go on listening forever to the fights between Cindy and Casey. IMO.


Now, for a minute think what might have been found out when Caylee was born in those tests with JG? Lee moved out too. Lee didn't come around when George was there after George came back home. According to George, after it was revealed Casey was pregnant (8th month), Lee and CAsey's relationship was strained.

Lee gives me the creeps, and always has, but I just can't buy into Casey's claim of sexual "abuse" by him and certainly not from George. Furthermore if Casey is instead implying that George physically abused her, that's obviously a crock. George does as he's told, and Cindy certainly wouldn't have "told" him he was allowed to punch darling Casey's lights out.

There's been a lot of discussion here about George's angry outbursts being evidence that he has a lot of suppressed anger. Well, yeah... I've only been exposed to Cindy and Casey for 5 months, and I already feel like strangling them or shooting myself.

A thought just occurred to me (a rare, therefore noteworthy event LOL :)) Looking back on how in-your-face belligerant Cindy often got with the protesters...and how she tried to strangle Casey recently... I wouldn't be surprised if Cindy is the one who got physical with George And Casey. In fact, given how snotty and defiant Casey is, she probably wouldn't be afraid to take a swing at George.


Did Casey tell the truth to friends about the abuse that possibly started in middle school? WHAT does ANNIE know?

I dunno, but in 5 months, I haven't heard Casey tell the truth once.

BTW, I enjoyed your post, Broderick. Very thought-provoking.

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 05:30 PM
Yes - I just edited my post above yours with the link.

Let me know what you think about some of the handwriting - it was hard for me to read.

Thanks. :blowkiss: I will read them again.

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Also, if you look at the order of documents - the 5 witness statements about Suburban drive are in order. Then, there is a document from October about the Ricardo - chloroform picture/graphic...AND THEN

right after that is another document, same case # and references 5 witness statements attached and was coded - referred to SEX CRIMES!

This just makes this incident even more strange. It was referred to sex crimes. Why? It it is related to this case, wouldn't missing persons be checked? This whole thing is strange. And yes, why is the report about the chloroform pic on Ricardo's computer right in between the statements and the report? :waitasec: Good job finding those things.

Waddles
12-01-2008, 05:45 PM
I've been reading and reading these docs and the eyes are getting blurry and there are so many things I want to bring up but it's bed time over here so I just want to say, the bottom line of it all, as all of us have said time and again from the start, and it's the very reason we are here, that Caylee just sounded like the coolest sweetest kid, everyone adored her and thought as such and I think the most tragic of all things is that regardless of your beliefs, once you're here on earth everybody deserves a chance at life and she not only most likely suffered at the hands of her own mother, was betrayed by the very being supposed to protect her above anything else, and was robbed of all the things she could have become and her loved ones have been robbed of all the joy she would have brought, that's the essence of it and the seriousness of the crime. Dearest Caylee we all love you, :blowkiss::blowkiss:

laniefi
12-01-2008, 05:51 PM
This just makes this incident even more strange. It was referred to sex crimes. Why? It it is related to this case, wouldn't missing persons be checked? This whole thing is strange. And yes, why is the report about the chloroform pic on Ricardo's computer right in between the statements and the report? :waitasec: Good job finding those things.

Yeah - seemed strange to me and that's why it stuck out. What would a shallow "grave", a string tied to more strings and a pipe = sex crime?

I'm at a loss, but it does seem very ODD!!!!!!

SeriouslySearching
12-01-2008, 05:53 PM
Their sex crimes division is directly tied to the missing persons unit...as they are one in the same.

yolorado
12-01-2008, 05:58 PM
This just makes this incident even more strange. It was referred to sex crimes. Why? It it is related to this case, wouldn't missing persons be checked? This whole thing is strange. And yes, why is the report about the chloroform pic on Ricardo's computer right in between the statements and the report? :waitasec: Good job finding those things.

It may be routine. If you have an alledged kidnapping of a child or even if a child goes missing in this day and age, sad to say, sexual predation is always a possibility. Even when an adult disappears it might very well be related to sex crimes. Seems rational that missing persons and sex crimes would co-ordinate pretty closely.

laniefi
12-01-2008, 05:59 PM
Their sex crimes division is directly tied to the missing persons unit...as they are one in the same.

BUT - on this form there is a completly separate check box for missing persons!

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

See page 34

The sex crimes & missing persons boxes are not even close to each other on the form - as if it could have been by mistake!

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 06:00 PM
BUT - on this form there is a completly separate check box for missing persons!

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

See page 34

The sex crimes & missing persons boxes are not even close to each other on the form - as if it could have been by mistake!

Exactly. That's why I find it strange. There are several boxes that could've been checked, including homicide and missing persons. Why did they specifically check sex crimes?

laniefi
12-01-2008, 06:02 PM
exactly. That's why i find it strange. There are several boxes that could've been checked, including homicide and missing persons. Why did they specifically check sex crimes?

exactly!!!!!!!!!!

Taking a step back...

So if this was the original "gravesite" would the dirt still be disturbed from June/July in September? There was a hurricane in between correct? Then this wouldn't make sense. Unless, this was the original "gravesite" until someone moved the body in September?

Hmmmmm

Friday
12-01-2008, 06:13 PM
Also, if you look at the order of documents - the 5 witness statements about Suburban drive are in order. Then, there is a document from October about the Ricardo - chloroform picture/graphic...AND THEN

right after that is another document, same case # and references 5 witness statements attached and was coded - referred to SEX CRIMES!

Just looked at the pages. What the h@ll is this all about do you think?

On the Ricardo doc (The property form where the chloroform picture is receipted) there's a column headed "Involvement Code" and the code given was OTH. Do we know what that means. Yeah, I know, it's probably the code for "Other." LOL

The 5 witnesses statements attached must surely be the statements from the 5 amateur searchers. How could all 5 of the groups have stumbled on a sex crime in progress?? I mean they weren't even there on the same day. And there's nothing in their statements to indicate they came upon anything remotely like a sex crime.

I'm just completely baffled--as usual. :confused:

Friday
12-01-2008, 06:15 PM
Their sex crimes division is directly tied to the missing persons unit...as they are one in the same.

Thank you!!!

CarolinaMoon
12-01-2008, 06:40 PM
I've been reading and reading these docs and the eyes are getting blurry and there are so many things I want to bring up but it's bed time over here so I just want to say, the bottom line of it all, as all of us have said time and again from the start, and it's the very reason we are here, that Caylee just sounded like the coolest sweetest kid, everyone adored her and thought as such and I think the most tragic of all things is that regardless of your beliefs, once you're here on earth everybody deserves a chance at life and she not only most likely suffered at the hands of her own mother, was betrayed by the very being supposed to protect her above anything else, and was robbed of all the things she could have become and her loved ones have been robbed of all the joy she would have brought, that's the essence of it and the seriousness of the crime. Dearest Caylee we all love you, :blowkiss::blowkiss:

Oh yes, you just made me cry.

1SweetNov
12-01-2008, 07:08 PM
I have not seen any docs. on this, but I have always thought it was quite possible, there was a problem in my family with this situation and KC and my family member act alike. The mother in my family is a clone of CA and I will not rest until my family issue is resolved. There is NO STATUE of limitation on sexual abuse of a child under 12 in Fl. I have brought the police into this matter and since I was not the victim can not do a thing until the victim decides too. She refuses since this happened 20 years ago and I believe this man is doing it again, I have no proof. I will not give up on this man being arrested one day for his actions.

The A's are so dysfunctional and appearances mean everything to CA. I do believe this family is full of secrets...........................CA does not want exposed even if it is not this allegation, which I think is possible, but no proof.

Bless you, Chesterp, for standing strong and not giving up on the victim.

ExpectingUnicorns
12-01-2008, 07:12 PM
exactly!!!!!!!!!!

Taking a step back...

So if this was the original "gravesite" would the dirt still be disturbed from June/July in September? There was a hurricane in between correct? Then this wouldn't make sense. Unless, this was the original "gravesite" until someone moved the body in September?

Hmmmmm

laniefi, wow!!! This is something to figure out, huh? I did notice on the first of the 5 statements (the one by the 46 year old man, Stewart H.) that he says he was there on 9/10/08 -- and the ground was undisturbed. The 4 young men (ages 16 to 19) were first there on 9/11/08 and came back on 9/12/08 to complete their digging. That is the same date LE took their statements. I can't figure out what this could be. What the heck was at the end of that rope -- and why was it placed there between 10 and 11 Sep? It must be pertinent to this case to have been included. We need to check and see how close this place is to the family house. Was KC out on bond during this time? Why sex crimes?

SeriouslySearching
12-01-2008, 07:12 PM
Thank you!!!You are welcome. (I guess others did not understand what I was saying tho.)

If you go check out www.OCSO.com you can see that Missing persons/sex crimes are overlapping. (It seems they have revamped their site a bit and I cannot find it now...but they were listed as the same.) The same people handle both types of cases in a single unit/department.

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 07:17 PM
You are welcome. (I guess others did not understand what I was saying tho.)

If you go check out www.OCSO.com....you can see that Missing persons/sex crimes are overlapping. The same people handle both types of cases in a single unit/department.

We understand what you are saying just fine, and we are aware of the overlapping units. We were, however, questioning why, if the sex crimes unit and missing person unit are overlapping, do they have a separate box for each of them? Why wouldn't there be just one? Why is this specifically marked sex crimes? Do they just pick whichever one they want, because it goes to the same place anyway?

SeriouslySearching
12-01-2008, 07:29 PM
I would have to assume they are standard forms and used by other agencies which house separate units. Since it is one in the same, it probably is designated to Sex Crimes for that form. I wouldn't read anything into it.

Valrico Analyzer
12-01-2008, 07:36 PM
This could be the smoking gun that sinks her ship. According to my records, she was out on bond 09/12/08....but how could she just waltz down the street with a shovel? Therefore, this MAYBE the 1st place she buried her. I'm sure if its a tire track they've taken an impression. We know they've looked at AL jeep too. The wildcard is HOW LONG this dirt was untouched after it was dug up. This could be back into July. Or June.

I wonder, to eliminate her, they checked Amys tires on her totalled car..?

DotsEyes
12-01-2008, 07:37 PM
I tired to read the cited portion for the "grave" that was found, but a little memo pops up and tells me the file is damaged and can not be repaired. Anyone with a better cite ?

So, it was a rope in a hole? What else?

Invisible
12-01-2008, 07:39 PM
It's shocking how much personal info is released in these 'dumps.' People's phone numbers, work addresses, home addresses, even Social Security Numbers and personal conversations. It really doesn't seem fair that just because someone gets pulled into someone else's crime spree, or just communicates with someone who did, is questioned by the police that their personal information and correspondences can be throw out on the Net and in the media for everyone in the world to see, use and abuse. I generally support Sunshine laws and freedom of information but it seems like Florida's laws take it to the point of exposing and injuring inncoent bystanders and that's really kind of horrible.

Amen, Yolorado, I had the same thoughts.

ExpectingUnicorns
12-01-2008, 08:37 PM
This could be the smoking gun that sinks her ship. According to my records, she was out on bond 09/12/08....but how could she just waltz down the street with a shovel? Therefore, this MAYBE the 1st place she buried her. I'm sure if its a tire track they've taken an impression. We know they've looked at AL jeep too. The wildcard is HOW LONG this dirt was untouched after it was dug up. This could be back into July. Or June.

I wonder, to eliminate her, they checked Amys tires on her totalled car..?

Stewart H says he was there on 9/10/08 -- and the ground was undisturbed. The four young men were there on the very next day and noticed "a patch of grass that was covered by dirt and a tire track that was sunk in one spot." Doesn't that mean it must have been buried (and dug up) on the 11th?

Recovering-Lurker
12-01-2008, 08:46 PM
Stewart H says he was there on 9/10/08 -- and the ground was undisturbed. The four young men were there on the very next day and noticed "a patch of grass that was covered by dirt and a tire track that was sunk in one spot." Doesn't that mean it must have been buried (and dug up) on the 11th?

Or something that was previously buried, and the ground looked undisturbed, was unburied on the 11th, which disturbed the ground. ???

natasha2289
12-01-2008, 11:19 PM
Pertaining to the new docs released I noticed a search for the show One Tree Hill. I remember someone asking online when this case first began if anyone new if Casey was a fan of this show because one of the episodes featured a kidnapping from a "phsycho nanny". After seeing the search I looked this up, and there was indeed an episode run of a Nanny kidnapping. Does anyone find this relevant?

justbetweenus
12-02-2008, 12:50 AM
The witness statements are hard to read in some parts, but the basic jist is - these people were searching for Caylee and were looking for Hopespring Drive but passed it and ended up at the end of the paved part of the road and there was a gate that was opened. They drove in and saw the disturbed soil and a tire track sunk in one spot. Then another witness said the soil with a line (or could be "tire" - too hard to read the print) in it like it was compacted. They dug in the disturbed area and got to a "pipe" of some sort.

All 5 statements have the same ending - I did not contact the media.

Here is the link: http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155418.pdf

Page 37 is where it starts.

I really wish I could read this. It will not open, says damaged file.

justbetweenus
12-02-2008, 12:59 AM
It may be routine. If you have an alledged kidnapping of a child or even if a child goes missing in this day and age, sad to say, sexual predation is always a possibility. Even when an adult disappears it might very well be related to sex crimes. Seems rational that missing persons and sex crimes would co-ordinate pretty closely.

I think you're right. I recall early in the case someone calling into Nancy asking why sex crime was involved, and the answer was pretty much what you stated.

ValleyGirl
12-02-2008, 01:05 AM
I want to read it so badly! But it says damaged here, too. :confused:

Whisperer
12-02-2008, 03:11 AM
Just looked at the pages. What the h@ll is this all about do you think?

On the Ricardo doc (The property form where the chloroform picture is receipted) there's a column headed "Involvement Code" and the code given was OTH. Do we know what that means. Yeah, I know, it's probably the code for "Other." LOL

The 5 witnesses statements attached must surely be the statements from the 5 amateur searchers. How could all 5 of the groups have stumbled on a sex crime in progress?? I mean they weren't even there on the same day. And there's nothing in their statements to indicate they came upon anything remotely like a sex crime.

I'm just completely baffled--as usual. :confused:

OTH is military code for Other Than Honorable...it relates to the discharge from service.

piratemom
12-02-2008, 04:06 AM
Back in May she is talking about Zani, oviedo house, dogs and roomates. Is there a phone log for this time to see WHO she was calling???

cleo612
12-02-2008, 08:37 AM
You know, AL stated that when they broke into the shed to retrieve the gas cans, KC's car was parked on Suburban. He drove her back to her car and watched while she poured the gasoline into her car. He stated that she would not let him near the car--that she could put the gas in herself.

Why would she have been parked on Suburban to begin with? This would have been around the 23rd-24th of June.

laniefi
12-02-2008, 09:26 AM
You know, AL stated that when they broke into the shed to retrieve the gas cans, KC's car was parked on Suburban. He drove her back to her car and watched while she poured the gasoline into her car. He stated that she would not let him near the car--that she could put the gas in herself.

Why would she have been parked on Suburban to begin with? This would have been around the 23rd-24th of June.

Thanks - do you remember which AL interview it was?

Valrico Analyzer
12-02-2008, 09:43 AM
It definetely fits the time line of the body being moved.

but WHY would the dirt look "fresh" on 09/12/08? That lends to an accomplice OTHER than the "A" family as Im certain the LE were keeping tabs on them

Reality Orlando
12-02-2008, 09:54 AM
I think GA is very good at doing CA's bidding. That sign is a huge advertisement for planting reasonable doubt in a potential jury pool.

I drive by that corner several times a week and he's always there...most times alone. I do feel for him. He looks truly devastated.

Hailiejade77
12-02-2008, 10:10 AM
It definetely fits the time line of the body being moved.

but WHY would the dirt look "fresh" on 09/12/08? That lends to an accomplice OTHER than the "A" family as Im certain the LE were keeping tabs on them

could it be possible,.. "someone" that took her to and from JB's office, drop her off so she could do it? She didn't have a GPS monitor, just a ankle monitor that went off if she left when she wasn't allowed too. Maybe Lee or Cindy drove her there and let her move the body. They don't know WHERE it is but they know it is moved. Does that make sense to anyone? Sorry if it doesn't, I haven't had my coffee yet! JMO

lastchance
12-02-2008, 10:57 AM
I keep thinking the same thing==that KC was not as well guarded during her time after being bonded out. She went to JB's office for 5-6 hours--was she there the whole time?
I thought originally that her ankle monitor had a GPS on it--but it seems that it did not.
I can just see her saying, "I just need some fresh air, or a cheeseburger, or something, and her slipping out the back door.

Waddles
12-02-2008, 11:25 AM
You know, AL stated that when they broke into the shed to retrieve the gas cans, KC's car was parked on Suburban. He drove her back to her car and watched while she poured the gasoline into her car. He stated that she would not let him near the car--that she could put the gas in herself.

Why would she have been parked on Suburban to begin with? This would have been around the 23rd-24th of June.

ran out of gas there?

debs
12-02-2008, 11:34 AM
ran out of gas there?

This then begs the question why she would be on that particular road at all.

laniefi
12-02-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm not sure why she would be on that road and without having seen this area myself (I've only been to the parks, west side of Orlando on vacation) it looks like Suburban Drive cuts through to Econlockhatchee Tr....

Is that correct?

I do remember early on there was some ping discussion on Econ Tr & Lee Vista area....abviously A's home and Lee live about equal distance from Suburban drive but I think it was related to search areas...

Am I remebering correctly?

future criminologist
12-02-2008, 01:32 PM
The great grandmother's e-mails to Mary Lou give great insight to the dynamics of George's and Cindy's marriage.

According to Cindy's mom...

Cindy is only staying with George because his lawyer says Cindy will have to pay alimony and give George half of the house. Cindy WON'T give up the house she paid every penny for. George is a loser that can't keep a job. Casey isn't making enough to pay for herself and Caylee so Cindy is supporting them too. Cindy would kill herself but has to stay alive for Caylee and her parents.

call me devil's advocate but I don't see what those emails between Cindy's mom and her friend/"Shadow" have to do with the case. they are basically gossip between two friends and will get tossed out as heresay. I don't think they can use random statements people make on what they were "Told" by someone unless it can be backed up, can they? like the JG statement about Casey and Lee. not that I don't believe him, but he could say anything - he could say Casey was impregnated by an alien if he wanted to - and they can't use it unless it's backed up by someone else or by evidence, right? so I guess I don't understand why that information would be included as evidence used to charge her.

Chezhire
12-02-2008, 02:24 PM
WFTV reports that the latest documents (released 11/26/08) include allegations of sexual conduct including overtures by Lee towards Casey and possibly abuse of Casey by George. Has anyone identified the precise documents that contain these allegations? Perhaps we can discuss them here.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2995192&postcount=75

K - for those of us WSers who haven't already read this thread, discussing LP's comments on Nancy G 10/6, go here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70290
Lots of information and opinions on Lee, what Leonard Padilla said about Caylee's paternity, what FBI agent Joe Trimarco said about trusting Leonard P, and other relevant comments. :)

butwhatif?
12-02-2008, 07:48 PM
exactly!!!!!!!!!!

Taking a step back...

So if this was the original "gravesite" would the dirt still be disturbed from June/July in September? There was a hurricane in between correct? Then this wouldn't make sense. Unless, this was the original "gravesite" until someone moved the body in September?

Hmmmmm

These statements have me scratching my head yet again. Why were there 4 statements in regard to the find at suburban dr, that do not state that they found anything? If they had found something attached to the rope, why was it not included in the statement? And why, if they didnt find anything, are these statements included in the documents? And why does each one end with the same sentence 'i did not contact the media about this.'
The one written by an adult states that the day before there had not been any disturbed soil...its all just very odd, imo.

butwhatif?
12-02-2008, 07:55 PM
Exactly. That's why I find it strange. There are several boxes that could've been checked, including homicide and missing persons. Why did they specifically check sex crimes?

I posted about this a couple of days ago. Its strange because they have ticked the 'child abuse' option a couple of pages before this.
In the documents i did find a mention of child abuse/sex crimes being the same division at that time, so thats probably explains it. It wasnt until 22nd (i think) of october that they started their own seperate SCU.

butwhatif?
12-02-2008, 08:14 PM
heres another thing i just dont understand...
In this investigative report it states that on the 16th july they did not take the pants because they had been laundered by Cindy, but they went back on August 4th to get them.
Why didnt they just take them in the first place?

ExpectingUnicorns
12-02-2008, 08:22 PM
These statements have me scratching my head yet again. Why were there 4 statements in regard to the find at suburban dr, that do not state that they found anything? If they had found something attached to the rope, why was it not included in the statement? And why, if they didnt find anything, are these statements included in the documents? And why does each one end with the same sentence 'i did not contact the media about this.'
The one written by an adult states that the day before there had not been any disturbed soil...its all just very odd, imo.

butwhatif?, it is odd!! If there was not a connection to this case I don't think these 5 statements would have been included in this dump. I feel certain LE has been called out to many, many "finds" by various searchers -- and this is the only one I'm aware of that is included here.

I'm thinking they did find something but had the men stop just short of saying what it was that they found at the end of that rope and pipe. Or maybe LE got there before the young men finished digging the entire thing up, LE had them write their statements, had the men leave -- and then LE finished the job. . . and found something significant that they don't want to reveal at this time.

I wondered about the 46 year-old man's statement, too. On 9/10 the area was undisturbed but the next day he found what he called a shallow looking grave (or something like that). I don't know if he saw the same thing (the tire tracks and dirt covered grass) on 9/10 as the youngsters did and just considered it nothing. What he describes he saw on 9/11 could then be the place that the young men had been digging. It's hard to tell.

But this coupled with the fact that TonE picked KC up on this same road when she ran out of gas makes it even more suspicious. What was she doing there? Putting her in the same area as the mysterious buried rope/grave makes this find substantial, IMO.

butwhatif?
12-03-2008, 08:41 PM
butwhatif?, it is odd!! If there was not a connection to this case I don't think these 5 statements would have been included in this dump. I feel certain LE has been called out to many, many "finds" by various searchers -- and this is the only one I'm aware of that is included here.

I'm thinking they did find something but had the men stop just short of saying what it was that they found at the end of that rope and pipe. Or maybe LE got there before the young men finished digging the entire thing up, LE had them write their statements, had the men leave -- and then LE finished the job. . . and found something significant that they don't want to reveal at this time.

I wondered about the 46 year-old man's statement, too. On 9/10 the area was undisturbed but the next day he found what he called a shallow looking grave (or something like that). I don't know if he saw the same thing (the tire tracks and dirt covered grass) on 9/10 as the youngsters did and just considered it nothing. What he describes he saw on 9/11 could then be the place that the young men had been digging. It's hard to tell.

But this coupled with the fact that TonE picked KC up on this same road when she ran out of gas makes it even more suspicious. What was she doing there? Putting her in the same area as the mysterious buried rope/grave makes this find substantial, IMO.

Just had a thought....I wonder if there is any connection between the rope find, and KC's comments about 'them not even finding her (caylees) clothes yet'?

piratemom
12-03-2008, 08:58 PM
OMG I didnt put 2 and 2 togther! Are you saying the ditch with the rope and where TL picked up KC when she ran out of gas are in the same area?????

KellioPSL
12-08-2008, 06:47 PM
from the moment that I read these 5 statements, it was like the kio/le interview HUH??? I have always thought it had to be a piece of evidence but what ? I'm going to just about bet it was a bottle of chloroform, buried like this to be ABLE to be retrieved later.

beckaroozie
12-08-2008, 06:56 PM
WOW! If you read back a few posts, I wondered why out of ALL the tips LE has, why they included the statements in the latest doc dump from the minors who found the rope and shallow hole off Suburban dr. (near the home)
note statement says " I did not contact the media with this information"

Notice NOTHING else has been said...by LE to media....and they usually disprove rumors...now comes the Enquirer..with the same story...which I know is a rag, but they do sometimes get it right. This area is where Kio KC and the other witness deposed by LE said they used to go to hang out.

and..."it's "near"....


I posted a 'theory' about this in the sticky threads a while back under 'new timeline - smell in the car' thread.

Zoe Bogart
12-09-2008, 06:55 AM
I'm not sure why she would be on that road and without having seen this area myself (I've only been to the parks, west side of Orlando on vacation) it looks like Suburban Drive cuts through to Econlockhatchee Tr....

Is that correct?

I do remember early on there was some ping discussion on Econ Tr & Lee Vista area....abviously A's home and Lee live about equal distance from Suburban drive but I think it was related to search areas...

Am I remebering correctly?



I wondered about the 46 year-old man's statement, too. On 9/10 the area was undisturbed but the next day he found what he called a shallow looking grave (or something like that). I don't know if he saw the same thing (the tire tracks and dirt covered grass) on 9/10 as the youngsters did and just considered it nothing. What he describes he saw on 9/11 could then be the place that the young men had been digging. It's hard to tell.

But this coupled with the fact that TonE picked KC up on this same road when she ran out of gas makes it even more suspicious. What was she doing there? Putting her in the same area as the mysterious buried rope/grave makes this find substantial, IMO.


Re: The Five mysterious Suburban Drive statements and the statement for AL about Casey's car being out of gas on Suburban Drive:

I'm not sure if anyone else answered this yet, but Suburban is at the corner of Hopespring Drive. From what everyone is writing, it appears people are thinking this street is far away from the Anthony home. It's NOT. See?

She could have strolled over there when no one was looking, probably right through her backyard with the media out front.


http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u234/Myrtle_Groggins/Hopespring_Suburban.jpg

yosande
12-09-2008, 07:22 AM
ME TOO. This NEEDS to be addressed, IMO. And if these accusations are untrue, LEE needs to stand up and defend himself NOW, IMO.
Why? Why if these accusations are untrue, would Lee need to stand up and defend himself, now?
What purpose would that serve?
Except to excite the masses with something new and juicy to discuss.
He is doing the right thing by staying out of the circus.
His parents can't, because CA is determined to not give up on Caylee, even if she has to do it alone, she isn't giving up on her.
Her family is harassed, and gossiped about. She wants her dear granddaughter back and continues to stand strong with this hurricane of venom at her door, in her face, and attacking her family. God Bless Cindy for not giving up on Caylee and following the masses who want to lynch her whole family. jmho

believe09
12-09-2008, 08:18 AM
Why? Why if these accusations are untrue, would Lee need to stand up and defend himself, now?
What purpose would that serve?
Except to excite the masses with something new and juicy to discuss.
He is doing the right thing by staying out of the circus.
His parents can't, because CA is determined to not give up on Caylee, even if she has to do it alone, she isn't giving up on her.
Her family is harassed, and gossiped about. She wants her dear granddaughter back and continues to stand strong with this hurricane of venom at her door, in her face, and attacking her family. God Bless Cindy for not giving up on Caylee and following the masses who want to lynch her whole family. jmho

Yosande, she would not have to do it alone if she would change her strategy. I am still waiting for them to plead for Caylee's return, for example. As someone pointed out on another thread, they will make a statement indicating that they are going to CA to check out a lead thereby telegraphing to the kidnappers that they are headed their way, BUT they will not release license plate information to the media, ASK for Caylee's return, mention the reward money...nothing. Perplexing. People keep stating that there is no handbook available when someone goes missing, but rule number 1 is that you use the media to your advantage, not for personal gain. JMHO. And I am not an Anthony basher-I think that they are VICTIMS.

Zoe Bogart
12-09-2008, 10:34 AM
The Anthonys are Casey's victims, for sure.

The lack of a "handbook" is their excuse for not doing things right, like not begging for Caylee's safe return, by telling the kidnappers they are on the way to where they are, by telling them they are spotting Caylee but not giving anyone any details. Then they'll turn around and blame LE for not helping, and when they fail at finding Caylee, it'll be LE's fault, and of course, the fault of that non-existent handbook. :banghead:

momtective
12-09-2008, 12:52 PM
Pg 2802 set 10 docs released 11-26-08
Email from CA to KC
canít sleep, stupid hot flashes wake me up then I start thinking about you and Caylee. Dad said he went to work at 9am and he got home at 830p, he said he did not come home in between. I donít know who or what to believe anymore. Youíve told me everyday that you were going to call me and you havenít but you choose to call when you know I wonít be home. What the hell is going on? I tried not to bug you to death but I still havenít gotten to see pictures of Caylee or gotten to speak to her. Itís been over a month now. Am I ever going to see her again/ Are you still with Jeff? Are you going back to work? I saw on the news that Anheiser Bush is being bought by a foreign company that does not want the theme parks only the beer part of the Co. What is that all about theyíre talking Disney or Universal may get to buy the theme parks. I thought Universal already merged with them? Iím not sure how much longer I can continue on this day to day course. Iím going freakin nuts not knowing wats going on with you. I had a breakdown at work, canít take much more stre
My notes:
The decision by AB to sell to Inbev was made on Sunday July 13th. Media release was July 14th.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26943070/
The Anheuser-Busch board agreed on July 14 to be taken over by InBev, heading off what had promised to be a long and acrimonious takeover battle for the brewer.

KellioPSL
12-09-2008, 01:21 PM
momtective do you think ca is talking about the "ga gas can incident with kc" on 6/24 ?

debs
12-09-2008, 01:40 PM
Pg 2802 set 10 docs released 11-26-08
Email from CA to KC
canít sleep, stupid hot flashes wake me up then I start thinking about you and Caylee. Dad said he went to work at 9am and he got home at 830p, he said he did not come home in between. I donít know who or what to believe anymore. Youíve told me everyday that you were going to call me and you havenít but you choose to call when you know I wonít be home. What the hell is going on? I tried not to bug you to death but I still havenít gotten to see pictures of Caylee or gotten to speak to her. Itís been over a month now. Am I ever going to see her again/ Are you still with Jeff? Are you going back to work? I saw on the news that Anheiser Bush is being bought by a foreign company that does not want the theme parks only the beer part of the Co. What is that all about theyíre talking Disney or Universal may get to buy the theme parks. I thought Universal already merged with them? Iím not sure how much longer I can continue on this day to day course. Iím going freakin nuts not knowing wats going on with you. I had a breakdown at work, canít take much more stre
My notes:
The decision by AB to sell to Inbev was made on Sunday July 13th. Media release was July 14th.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26943070/
The Anheuser-Busch board agreed on July 14 to be taken over by InBev, heading off what had promised to be a long and acrimonious takeover battle for the brewer.

Whatever else, there is that glaring timeline problem of the Anthony's again. "It's been over a month now........." Cindy saw Caylee on the 15th of June. Why is there such a mindset that it was a week before then?

PaulaF513
12-09-2008, 02:06 PM
Whatever else, there is that glaring timeline problem of the Anthony's again. "It's been over a month now........." Cindy saw Caylee on the 15th of June. Why is there such a mindset that it was a week before then?
I think that erroneous date is stamped in their minds due to the shock of the situation. I've seen that happen and I don't think it means anything sinister.

debs
12-09-2008, 02:32 PM
I think that erroneous date is stamped in their minds due to the shock of the situation. I've seen that happen and I don't think it means anything sinister.

I agree, and it makes sense AFTER the traumatic event of learning that Caylee is in fact missing. But why the disconnect with the date BEFORE she discovers that Casey has been lying for a month about Caylee's whereabouts?

momtective
12-09-2008, 02:44 PM
momtective do you think ca is talking about the "ga gas can incident with kc" on 6/24 ?

I don't know how she could possibly think that because according to Cindy's FBI interview Casey, Caylee, Zani, etc were in Tampa during this time, so she thought. See sticky http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75577
This FBI Interview blows holes in almost everything. I mean if Cindy thought KC was in Tampa how could she possibly be at the house getting gas cans? How could GA confront her about the cans? All this stuff happened when Cindy thought Casey was in Tampa. Me thinks Cindy knew darn well Casey wasn't in Tampa. WE KNOW SHE WASN'T!

momtective
12-09-2008, 02:47 PM
Respectfully snipped from Debs post: there is that glaring timeline problem of the Anthony's again.

Yep, that's my point exactly! Timeline makes no sense whatsoever!

john's mom
12-09-2008, 03:02 PM
Did they ever release the updated witness list? I haven't seen it anywhere.

Recovering-Lurker
12-09-2008, 03:03 PM
Did they ever release the updated witness list? I haven't seen it anywhere.

I haven't seen it either. Obviously the media has seen it, because they have commented on how many people have been added and who some of those people are. I keep checking. I really want to see it.

LiveLaughLuv
12-09-2008, 03:22 PM
I haven't seen it either. Obviously the media has seen it, because they have commented on how many people have been added and who some of those people are. I keep checking. I really want to see it.

I found this witness list. I heard 144 witnesses for the prosecution.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17601789/detail.html

Sooner Fan#1
12-09-2008, 08:30 PM
I don't know where this belongs, but I was yet, once again reading the docs dump and found this: Part 5 exhibit #2547 regarding KC's diploma, not that it matters....also next exhibit # 2548 Valencia had her as a recruit, why would they if she didn't graduate. I often go back and go over police docs...on the 2547...the detective underlined DID...

cuppy199
12-09-2008, 08:40 PM
Made a new thread continue here please:) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76165