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View Full Version : FBI says Caylee never left local Orlando area


Imajica
12-20-2008, 03:02 AM
According to Fox News, The FBI has finally responded to the many "claims" that Caylee was taken out of her local Orlando area.

"As to the question of whether someone might have taken Caylee out of the Orlando area where she lived, the FBI said there wasn't any indication that was the case.

"At no time did we find any evidence that this young child left this location," said Tampa FBI Special Agent Steven Ibison."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469785,00.html

Personally I find it significant that the FBI released that large detail, coming on the heel's of the immediate spin by the defense regarding the "Kidnappers" and the the statement by one of the Attorney's that Casey would "never" dump a body that close to her home. :rolleyes:

I believe that LE is attempting to subtly let the public know the truth, even though they are very limited in which details they can release right now.

In my opinion, that statement from Special Agent Ibison basically says "Caylee was killed not far from where she was found, and all of the evidence we have in our possession supports this fact!"

Thoughts? Feedback?

Kimster
12-20-2008, 03:06 AM
BRAVO! I am happy to see LE making statements in light of all the doubt that the defense has been trying to throw out there.

Yes, I do believe they are letting the public know that they have a lot of good information just waiting to be unleashed! I'm looking forward to the day when we get all the details!

JBean
12-20-2008, 03:27 AM
She never left the neighborhood let alone Orlando.

kline
12-20-2008, 03:29 AM
Ditto.I think they have a wealth of forensic from the scene that points to Casey as Ive said before I wouldnt rule out fingerprints.
I also think the defense knows it which is why they are dogging this bogus LE evidence tampering tact.
When LE presents their findings they can simply deny the evidence whole cloth as tainted or planted.
Its not going to work.

Imajica
12-20-2008, 03:38 AM
She never left the neighborhood let alone Orlando.

I changed the title to reflect that more clearly. I re-read the article after seeing your post, and I agree they were specifically talking about her neighborhood.

Even the defense is going to have a hard time explaining how little Caylee never left the area when she was supposedly "kidnapped" at Blanchard Park, and then whisked away to some mysterious far away place with her favorite book and a handy cell phone conveniently programmed with the word "Mommy"! :rolleyes:

RR0004
12-20-2008, 03:42 AM
I'm really thankful LE has maintained their cool throughout this nightmare. They didn't need to respond effusively to all the defense's claims. They could do it subtly because they knew they had the goods. There was absolutely no need to take the bait. I think lots of the posturing that went on with the defense and the As was nothing more than attempts to goad LE into responding because they DID keep details close to the vest. We'll no doubt continue to see this. IMO, the defense's frustration is showing.

miabellamoure
12-20-2008, 03:46 AM
I felt that way too when hearing that...which was probably a heads up to the Defense Team to think again before they throw more of KC's delusional tales up for grabs.

DotsEyes
12-20-2008, 04:38 AM
Now there is a third version of events. My, my, my. Now she dropped Caylee off in the parking lot of an apartment complex to ZFG who then drove away with Caylee in the car.

Ok. Well, that one doesn't work either. Try again.

txsvicki
12-20-2008, 04:54 AM
So, if Caylee never left the neighborhood, a dually trained dog could have tracked her over to the wooded area.

kline
12-20-2008, 05:02 AM
So, if Caylee never left the neighborhood, a dually trained dog could have tracked her over to the wooded area.There are so many variables when it comes to tracking with dogs that the fact that they didnt head to where the body was isnt an indication that she wasnt there.
Im sure the defense will try to put forth that implication but im sure the prosecution will put that to rest with expert testimony pretty quick.

tx_Dot
12-20-2008, 06:59 AM
She never left the neighborhood let alone Orlando.

I never thought KC went too far off either....

She was stealing gas a few gals. @ a time......& by the time KC stole enough money to fill the tank, her car had been towed.

SuziQ
12-20-2008, 10:40 AM
I think the defense will still try to play off the associated Orlando Nanny areas, because the FBI seems to say she never left Orlando. Not that she didn't leave her neighborhood. IMO, she traveled around in the trunk, wherever the car went, AL's, Fusion, Target, etc.

JustJax
12-20-2008, 10:52 AM
I think the defense will still try to play off the associated Orlando Nanny areas, because the FBI seems to say she never left Orlando. Not that she didn't leave her neighborhood. IMO, she traveled around in the trunk, wherever the car went, AL's, Fusion, Target, etc.


I agree and that is why the dogs did not track a scent down the street because Casey drove Caylee's body to where it was ultimately dumped.
They hit on the car and in the yard, the yard is where she wrapped her gruesome package up.

technicalconfusion
12-20-2008, 10:53 AM
There are so many variables when it comes to tracking with dogs that the fact that they didnt head to where the body was isnt an indication that she wasnt there.
Im sure the defense will try to put forth that implication but im sure the prosecution will put that to rest with expert testimony pretty quick.

If CA had bothered to give TM something of Caylee's for his dogs to sniff, they would have found her the first time.

Valrico Analyzer
12-20-2008, 11:04 AM
Interesting that the FBI said this.

I have longbelieved that the defense was wasting their time picking apart OCSO and now M.E. when it is the FBI that is running this show.

They can second guess Dr. G all they want..and LE too...but when the FBI, backed by Quantico, presents their evidence...NO DOUBT the jurors will be starining their ears to hear their every word.

Notice the 'talking heads" on CNN, Fox, etc. They never question the FBI. In fact, Michael Baden on down have said their labs and their findings are so impeccable, so precise, they are almost impossible to refute..

They have been on this investigation the whole time. It's asinine to think they told local LE " yea go dig around over there, let us know what you found..give us a shout when you have something".

There's been more blue jackets with FBI on it than I have seen together for a long time.

Hope for the Best
12-20-2008, 11:13 AM
I agree and that is why the dogs did not track a scent down the street because Casey drove Caylee's body to where it was ultimately dumped.
They hit on the care and in the yard, the yard is where she wrapped her gruesome package up.

I agree. But, I also wonder, Casey had a 31 day head start. Would the dogs have still been able to follow a scent left a month before? With rain? I don't know much about tracking or cadaver dogs, so I'm just wondering if anyone knows.

packerdog
12-20-2008, 11:21 AM
We do have to keep in mind that Caylee was in the trunk for 2.5 days. I believe that she was dead or dying on the 16th or the 17th. The reason I think this is because TL said that they slept in on the 17th and he skipped school that day. KC was in no hurry to get back to the car and and see if Caylee was dead or alive.Her car would have been at TL's parking lot with Caylee in it. Just sickening!

BonKai
12-20-2008, 11:29 AM
I agree and that is why the dogs did not track a scent down the street because Casey drove Caylee's body to where it was ultimately dumped.
They hit on the care and in the yard, the yard is where she wrapped her gruesome package up.

Great point! :clap:

chefmom
12-20-2008, 11:32 AM
BRAVO! I am happy to see LE making statements in light of all the doubt that the defense has been trying to throw out there.

Yes, I do believe they are letting the public know that they have a lot of good information just waiting to be unleashed! I'm looking forward to the day when we get all the details!

ITA! And let's hope that with every BS statement that Biaz and the defense team come out with, LE will counter with something else to show just how ridiculous it is!

angelmom
12-20-2008, 11:40 AM
I agree. But, I also wonder, Casey had a 31 day head start. Would the dogs have still been able to follow a scent left a month before? With rain? I don't know much about tracking or cadaver dogs, so I'm just wondering if anyone knows.

Here's my question, which is related: Did they ever bring in tracking dogs? I know they brought in the cadaver dogs, but I don't remember reading about tracking dogs. In Laci's case, the tracking dogs followed a scent that they said could have been Laci in a car. But in this case, after 31 days AND Casey's claim that the abduction happened at the Sawgrass Apts., there was no reason for LE to bring tracking dogs to the Hopespring Drive address.

This is not a flaw or failure on the part of LE, but part of Casey's attempts to prevent anyone from finding her missing daughter and, IMHO, evidence of consciousness of guilt that should be obvious to any juror.

jmommy
12-20-2008, 11:44 AM
So, if Caylee never left the neighborhood, a dually trained dog could have tracked her over to the wooded area.

NOTHING the defense can come up with will explain why Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of KC's car and why she kept telling everyone the odor was that of a dead squirrel.

minazoe
12-20-2008, 11:56 AM
boy..she must have been thinking that LE was soooo absolutley stoopid all this time...they didn't even find the clothes...Caylee is 15 houses away...

I think something was left at the scene that was used to kill Caylee, something that won't be revealed until the toxicology reports come out...Dr G said it will be difficult to determine amounts etc. Which makes me think they are expecting a positive tox result for certain deadly chemicals.. I wounder if she used an insecticide sprayer or something to deliver Chloroform into the trunk of the car or directly into Caylees mouth
or nose. Remember that when you have surgery they do use tape etc...to insure the correct delivery of anethestisa and things into the mouth etc.

I think there is some very sinister evidence in play.

I can see Casey pumping deadly gas into the trunk..where she wouldn't have to see or hear anything traumatic....The FBI will knock this one out of the park.

SilverHope
12-20-2008, 12:06 PM
I agree. But, I also wonder, Casey had a 31 day head start. Would the dogs have still been able to follow a scent left a month before? With rain? I don't know much about tracking or cadaver dogs, so I'm just wondering if anyone knows.


My family trains search & rescue and cadaver dogs. If you mean a line tracking (the dog following where the car went), no they wouldn't be able to do that with good weather.

The dogs did hit in the backyard in three seperate locations.

Let's take a forest situation ... a dog would be trained to air scent for that decomposition smell, (which they are trained to believe is their favourite toy), and it's hard to explain while typing, but, they don't follow the scent in a straight line. They go downwind of the scent and the scent goes out in a triangle. The dog keep going outside that triangle and brings itself back into it then through the other side. Here, i'll show a picture I drew. The x would be what you are searching for, the pink curvy line would be the path the dog and handler would take to find it.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m4vu3n.jpg


i'll explain why they couldn't find Caylee in a few. brb.

Dolphinmomcca
12-20-2008, 12:06 PM
I havent read the whole thread yet, so forgive me if this has been said, but if they know she wasnt taken out of the neighborhood, then I wonder how she was killed and where, because it obviously wasnt a bloody death (God, I hate writing that) because no signs of obvious blood trauma have been found so far (that we know of).......so what are your thoughts on this finding?

BeanE
12-20-2008, 12:06 PM
Now there is a third version of events. My, my, my. Now she dropped Caylee off in the parking lot of an apartment complex to ZFG who then drove away with Caylee in the car.

Ok. Well, that one doesn't work either. Try again.

Actually that's the fourth version:

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG on the steps of the Sawgrass apartments and Casey then drove off to go to work (Casey)

- ZFG and her sister Samantha, in Blanchard Park, knocked Casey down, snatched Caylee from Casey's arms, then got in a car with Samantha's 2 children and drove off (Baez, Lee, LP)

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG in Blanchard Park (Todd Black)

- Casey dropped Caylee off with ZFG and another woman in an apartment complex parking lot and saw them drive away together (Baez)

We need to start making a dartboard with all these different versions.

JustJax
12-20-2008, 12:08 PM
NOTHING the defense can come up with will explain why Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of KC's car and why she kept telling everyone the odor was that of a dead squirrel.


I suspect they are going to try to used the chain of custody angle in regards to the car. The car was abandoned (convienently) by Casey, then towed and left at the towyard. Then back to the house with CA and ultimately impounded by LE.

While IMO this will be a fultile attempt, it will be raised nontheless.

yanknrebel
12-20-2008, 12:13 PM
So, if Caylee never left the neighborhood, a dually trained dog could have tracked her over to the wooded area.


I may be wrong here, but if Casey killed Caylee, put her in the trunk then drove her to the spot where she was found, the dogs would lose her trail in the trunk of car. They would not pick up sent if Caylee was taken by car. Now why the dogs did not pick up the scent if they were taken to the woods , I have no clue. Unless they were not taken to the woods, only having the searchers looking there.

Whenever a child is stolen, and taken away by car, the dogs can usually track child until the trail goes cold on a road or street. Just thinking this could have been what happened.

I think CA has OCD. WHat is with ALL the vacuum cleaners? I have a 2 story house so I have 2 vacuums. She has 4 vacuums and a cleaner. Just an observation. This whole family has issues.

SeriouslySearching
12-20-2008, 12:16 PM
It goes right along with my theory that she never left the A fam house alive.

yanknrebel
12-20-2008, 12:20 PM
We do have to keep in mind that Caylee was in the trunk for 2.5 days. I believe that she was dead or dying on the 16th or the 17th. The reason I think this is because TL said that they slept in on the 17th and he skipped school that day. KC was in no hurry to get back to the car and and see if Caylee was dead or alive.Her car would have been at TL's parking lot with Caylee in it. Just sickening!

I agree with you in this scanario. Reading the doc dumps, it is my opinion that Ricardo never minded Caylee being there with he and Casey . However that cop that Casey dated as well as AL, neither seemed to really want to have Caylee around. Esp in their shared bed at night.

I think this is why Casey decided to do this to Caylee. She was cramping her style while she was sleeping around. She had just gotten into it with CA so she could not leave her there and AL didn;t really want her there , so this is when Casey did this to Caylee. Then the next morning she and AL slept in , went to the video store. Casey's problem was solved and she now had a clear way to this AL. Sickening!!!

SilverHope
12-20-2008, 12:21 PM
I may be wrong here, but if Casey killed Caylee, put her in the trunk then drove her to the spot where she was found, the dogs would lose her trail in the trunk of car. They would not pick up sent if Caylee was taken by car. Now why the dogs did not pick up the scent if they were taken to the woods , I have no clue. Unless they were not taken to the woods, only having the searchers looking there.

Whenever a child is stolen, and taken away by car, the dogs can usually track child until the trail goes cold on a road or street. Just thinking this could have been what happened.

I think CA has OCD. WHat is with ALL the vacuum cleaners? I have a 2 story house so I have 2 vacuums. She has 4 vacuums and a cleaner. Just an observation. This whole family has issues.

Right on! A dog cannot trace a car's footsteps. It just isn't possible. They can tell you if a body was in a car or not, but not where the car went.

If the wind was too strong, the dogs would have a hard time searching. Anyone know what type of dogs were used? German Shepherds? They aren't so good for water searches, and I believe when the dogs went it was flooded, was it not? They can still be used for those searches, but their abilities are more for strength and agility / long distances. Up here we train those dogs to be able to go 40km a day, then again the next day. I don't know what the standards are in the US.

If the wind wasn't co-operating during the search, then the dogs would also have a hard time. In that situation, a heavy wooded forest, they would airscent like the diagram I posted on the previous page. The dogs should have still been able to search the area, but it depends how far away from that exact location they were. They should be usually fine to find the location of a body no matter how many days have passed, burried or not. But since reports are saying the area was used as a graveyard of sorts in the past, then there could have been other scents that threw the dogs off.

I'd guess that they weren't close enoguh for the dogs to catch onto the scent of Caylee.

How many dogs were used? Does anyone know?

maur33
12-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I suspect they are going to try to used the chain of custody angle in regards to the car. The car was abandoned (convienently) by Casey, then towed and left at the towyard. Then back to the house with CA and ultimately impounded by LE.

While IMO this will be a fultile attempt, it will be raised nontheless.

Right, but the prosecution will raise the fact that casey told the detectives on July 15th that she in fact spoke to her daughter for a few seconds that morning. She has locked herself to that particular lie, and it will come back to haunt her defense in a pretty big way.

If casey maintains that she spoke to Caylee on july 15th the car was already being turned over to the anthony's, so there isn't anyway for her to say that someone killed her daughter and put her in the trunk of her car and then removed her all within the span of what maybe 3-4 hours. Because once the anthony's had the car the access to the car by anyone other than them ceased to exist. Unless of course she will blame her parent's, something that I can see her doing.

sylviesays
12-20-2008, 12:27 PM
Actually that's the fourth version:

- Casey dropped Caylee off with ZFG and another woman in an apartment complex parking lot and saw them drive away together (Baez)


Can you please tell me when Baez said this? :eek: :confused:

Brini
12-20-2008, 12:28 PM
I'm really thankful LE has maintained their cool throughout this nightmare. They didn't need to respond effusively to all the defense's claims. They could do it subtly because they knew they had the goods. There was absolutely no need to take the bait. I think lots of the posturing that went on with the defense and the As was nothing more than attempts to goad LE into responding because they DID keep details close to the vest. We'll no doubt continue to see this. IMO, the defense's frustration is showing.

I think you're right. To increase the frustration, we have KC insisting on stic king with the nanny defense.

curiositycat
12-20-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't think it's what LE is saying, I think it's more what they ARE NOT saying in this case.

I am going to step out on a limb and say that someone else in the A's home knows more than we have been told and may soon be arrested because of their involvement. If someone else was involved "in the home", I believe it is because they may have found out the truth after KC was let out on bail the first time. They then may have made an effort to help in the cover up.

I was thinking about something in the past few days. If Caylee was dead when she was dumped in that field she had to be heavy. How did KC open the trunk, pull her out and carry her to the woods with no one seeing a thing? I weigh more then KC and I think that I would have trouble doing that. When my youngest grandson was her age he used to fall asleep and he was quite heavy to move to his bed.

I believe LE skirted around issues at the conference. This very statement "Caylee never left Orlando neighborhood" may have been enough to cause LA to lawyer up. JMO

I still think it an odd turn of events that the very day, after the night the A's were telling the world that KC was alive and bad mouthing LE, NG..the body shows up. I am one of those who is not convinced it was not moved there..YET.

sylviesays
12-20-2008, 12:36 PM
Don't you think Caylee would have fit (in the fetal position) in a large duffle bag or something? I mean, it might have looked suspicious for Casey to go into the woods with a bag, but who knows.. if this was a common place for people to hang out and party, maybe it would have looked "normal"?

curiositycat
12-20-2008, 12:38 PM
Actually that's the fourth version:

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG on the steps of the Sawgrass apartments and Casey then drove off to go to work (Casey)

- ZFG and her sister Samantha, in Blanchard Park, knocked Casey down, snatched Caylee from Casey's arms, then got in a car with Samantha's 2 children and drove off (Baez, Lee, LP)

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG in Blanchard Park (Todd Black)

- Casey dropped Caylee off with ZFG and another woman in an apartment complex parking lot and saw them drive away together (Baez)

We need to start making a dartboard with all these different versions.

Quote bolded by me, with respect:)

I believe in one of the first interviews with OCSO KC is called on her "leaving the baby at Sawgrass with Zanny" lies. They had checked all the security cams and there is not one picture of KC being at that apartment at all when she claimed to have been. When that came to light the story changed to the "Zanny took Caylee at the park," lie.

Sometimes I think we have kept better account of KC's lies then the experts. LOL

SuziQ
12-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Don't you think Caylee would have fit (in the fetal position) in a large duffle bag or something? I mean, it might have looked suspicious for Casey to go into the woods with a bag, but who knows.. if this was a common place for people to hang out and party, maybe it would have looked "normal"?

Where Caylee was found is not the place for people to hang out and party. That was by the school, which is 800 feet and across the street from where Caylee was found. Also, from what I've been able to put together, the area the dogs searched was also by the school.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/19/caylee.anthony/index.html

ETA: Also, IIRC, the 4 guys found the rope by the school.

sylviesays
12-20-2008, 12:49 PM
Where Caylee was found is not the place for people to hang out and party. That was by the school, which is 800 feet and across the street from where Caylee was found. Also, from what I've been able to put together, the area the dogs searched was also by the school.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/19/caylee.anthony/index.html

ETA: Also, IIRC, the 4 guys found the rope by the school.

Thanks for clearing that up..

I had thought that at some point, maybe Casey was staying in the woods with Caylee's remains.. as sick as that is.. where else was she during the time nobody knew where she was?

GatorMom
12-20-2008, 01:00 PM
This case reminds me of the Scott Peterson case in so many ways. Young attractive sociopaths thinking they have gotten away with murder. Bodies recovered months later when people had almost given up hope. Obvious homocide but no obvious cause of death. Blowhard attorneys claiming their client's side of the story will reveal the truth. Stone cold killers who flash smiles in court and never believe they will be convicted because they think they're smarter than everyone else.

LE holding their cards very close to the vest so no mistakes are made and there are no grounds for appeal after the killer is convicted...

I believe Caylee died in that house, I think it was premeditated and Casey was ready for some time to kill her; the fight about stealing from her grand parents and being told to get out was the final straw for a woman who never wanted her baby in the first place. I think after she killed her child, Casey stuffed her in that bag, stashed her in the playhouse while she cleaned up the mess inside, backed the car into the garage to load the bag in the trunk and drove it to the spot where the remains were found last week. After a few days of the body fluids fermenting in the Florida heat the smell in the car became unbearable and that's how it ended up parked outside the Amscot.

During the Peterson case there was a former Federal prosecutor who kept reminding us the hardest part about a murder is getting rid of the messy body. I think that's why Casey had to move her outside to clean up the evidence of the murder and that is where the evidence in the trunk came from; the bag leaked.

I don't know if the SA will change their mind about the DP but I hope they do because I have a feeling any jury who convicts this monster will have no problem sending her to death row. Just like in the Scott Peterson case.

SuziQ
12-20-2008, 01:00 PM
Thanks for clearing that up..

I had thought that at some point, maybe Casey was staying in the woods with Caylee's remains.. as sick as that is.. where else was she during the time nobody knew where she was?

Anything is possible with that girl. So who knows. I should clarify that when I talk about the dogs, I'm referring to LE. I'm not sure where Gail SJ searched with her dogs.

WholeLottaRosie
12-20-2008, 01:05 PM
Right on! A dog cannot trace a car's footsteps. It just isn't possible. They can tell you if a body was in a car or not, but not where the car went.

If the wind was too strong, the dogs would have a hard time searching. Anyone know what type of dogs were used? German Shepherds? They aren't so good for water searches, and I believe when the dogs went it was flooded, was it not? They can still be used for those searches, but their abilities are more for strength and agility / long distances. Up here we train those dogs to be able to go 40km a day, then again the next day. I don't know what the standards are in the US.

If the wind wasn't co-operating during the search, then the dogs would also have a hard time. In that situation, a heavy wooded forest, they would airscent like the diagram I posted on the previous page. The dogs should have still been able to search the area, but it depends how far away from that exact location they were. They should be usually fine to find the location of a body no matter how many days have passed, burried or not. But since reports are saying the area was used as a graveyard of sorts in the past, then there could have been other scents that threw the dogs off.

I'd guess that they weren't close enoguh for the dogs to catch onto the scent of Caylee.

How many dogs were used? Does anyone know?


What I wonder is about the pesticides. They took stuff from the Anthony home. It was suggested somewhere that pesticide(s) was/were used to keep insects down, so I am wondering if the bag was sprayed with pesticides, would this have interfered with the dogs being able to find it.

Fandy
12-20-2008, 01:21 PM
this has been nagging at me...George and his Food Network show, saying Casey and Caylee left on the 16th at whatever time withbackpacks...a bold lie? is this what they are asking immunity for? Or did Casey and Caylee leave the night/early AM after the knockdown drag fight with Cindy after the discovery of stealing $$ from Grandpas account. Casey went to TonE's, but left Caylee in the car in the trunk overnight to sleep, and when she came out in morning, Caylee was dead? maybe not chloroform but xanex the overdose or suffication from the heat?...drives back to the house to arrange the accident? I think it wouldn't be too far-fetched to theorize that Cindy had anti-anxiety pills (ativan or xanex) she was under a great amount of stress...Casey could and would steal them..she OD'ed the baby. IDK, i've been making myself sick about this for almost 6 months......sorry to ramble.

passionflower
12-20-2008, 01:37 PM
off subject, but could any of you live in the house again knowing it was a crime scene?? Knowing your daughter killed your precious grand daughter there? or wrapped her up in the sheets from your house? If it were me, I would see Caylee's little ghost everywhere. It would haunt me til the day I died..........I would have to leave and live with a relative til everything was sold. IMO, just a random thought came to me.

Manny
12-20-2008, 01:54 PM
You know ,I think that Cindy and George gave Casey an out if she wanted it, the pool. If she told them that Caylee drowned while she was on the phone and she panicked this would have ended months ago. I am sure they suggested that to her while she was out on bond. She just cannot admit that she did such a senseless thing. She must really think she can bluff and lie her way through this whole horrible event. I don't think she will ever, ever tell anyone what really happened.

Meemom
12-20-2008, 02:02 PM
Right, but the prosecution will raise the fact that casey told the detectives on July 15th that she in fact spoke to her daughter for a few seconds that morning. She has locked herself to that particular lie, and it will come back to haunt her defense in a pretty big way.

If casey maintains that she spoke to Caylee on july 15th the car was already being turned over to the anthony's, so there isn't anyway for her to say that someone killed her daughter and put her in the trunk of her car and then removed her all within the span of what maybe 3-4 hours. Because once the anthony's had the car the access to the car by anyone other than them ceased to exist. Unless of course she will blame her parent's, something that I can see her doing.

(bolded by me)

IIRC, The A's also told LE in one of the interviews that they had REMOVED the battery, so "no one" could take it again....:confused:

maur33
12-20-2008, 02:09 PM
(bolded by me)

IIRC, The A's also told LE in one of the interviews that they had REMOVED the battery, so "no one" could take it again....:confused:

Exactly, the anthony's had the car in their driveway and stated that they made it inopperable. This lie that casey told about talking to Caylee that morning is the nail in her coffin. There are only 2 ways for her to undo that, one is by taking the stand and telling the jury that she lied the other is getting that statement thrown out, of course scenario 2 is unlikely to happen.

Tackle that with the forensics of Caylee having been decomposing in that car for at least 2.6 days and it gets even worse for her, because that means that Caylee was not alive on the 15th of July and had been a dead body in her car from at least 12-15 July. So there in lies the biggest hurdle for the defense, she is screwed. I wouldn't put it past her to blame her parent's for the murder and admit that everything she did and said was lie to cover up for them.

technicalconfusion
12-20-2008, 02:11 PM
off subject, but could any of you live in the house again knowing it was a crime scene?? Knowing your daughter killed your precious grand daughter there? or wrapped her up in the sheets from your house? If it were me, I would see Caylee's little ghost everywhere. It would haunt me til the day I died..........I would have to leave and live with a relative til everything was sold. IMO, just a random thought came to me.

I don't know, having never been in this position (and hope I never will!) but I have a friend whose son recently committed suicide at her home and she is moving out.

drip~drop
12-20-2008, 02:13 PM
According to Fox News, The FBI has finally responded to the many "claims" that Caylee was taken out of her local Orlando area.

"As to the question of whether someone might have taken Caylee out of the Orlando area where she lived, the FBI said there wasn't any indication that was the case.

"At no time did we find any evidence that this young child left this location," said Tampa FBI Special Agent Steven Ibison."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469785,00.html

Personally I find it significant that the FBI released that large detail, coming on the heel's of the immediate spin by the defense regarding the "Kidnappers" and the the statement by one of the Attorney's that Casey would "never" dump a body that close to her home. :rolleyes:

I believe that LE is attempting to subtly let the public know the truth, even though they are very limited in which details they can release right now.

In my opinion, that statement from Special Agent Ibison basically says "Caylee was killed not far from where she was found, and all of the evidence we have in our possession supports this fact!"

Thoughts? Feedback?
[bolded & colored}

where do they think she'd dump a body. are they admitting she is capable?:eek:

pirate
12-20-2008, 02:16 PM
What I wonder is about the pesticides. They took stuff from the Anthony home. It was suggested somewhere that pesticide(s) was/were used to keep insects down, so I am wondering if the bag was sprayed with pesticides, would this have interfered with the dogs being able to find it.

I wonder the same thing. I know they took pesticides from the A home last week but have we ever had any confirmation that they suspect pesticides were used?

And does anyone know if pesticides would cover the smell of decomposition to any extent?

MissJames
12-20-2008, 02:25 PM
So, if Caylee never left the neighborhood, a dually trained dog could have tracked her over to the wooded area.

Tracking dogs track LIVE people by following the scent from skin cells we are constantly shedding.We have a tracking dog.
Cadaver dogs are trained to HIT on the smell of decomposition.They don't track that smell.They are led around by their handlers in the hopes of coming upon it.
I've never heard of a dually trained tracking/cadaver dog.

MissJames
12-20-2008, 02:31 PM
Here's my question, which is related: Did they ever bring in tracking dogs? I know they brought in the cadaver dogs, but I don't remember reading about tracking dogs. In Laci's case, the tracking dogs followed a scent that they said could have been Laci in a car. But in this case, after 31 days AND Casey's claim that the abduction happened at the Sawgrass Apts., there was no reason for LE to bring tracking dogs to the Hopespring Drive address.

This is not a flaw or failure on the part of LE, but part of Casey's attempts to prevent anyone from finding her missing daughter and, IMHO, evidence of consciousness of guilt that should be obvious to any juror.

In Laci's case the dogs could have been tracking a previous scent track Laci left.If she walked to or from her car before she was killed the scent from her shed cells may have still benn there.
Most likely the scent would have dispersed after 31 days.

MissJames
12-20-2008, 02:46 PM
off subject, but could any of you live in the house again knowing it was a crime scene?? Knowing your daughter killed your precious grand daughter there? or wrapped her up in the sheets from your house? If it were me, I would see Caylee's little ghost everywhere. It would haunt me til the day I died..........I would have to leave and live with a relative til everything was sold. IMO, just a random thought came to me.

I'm not sure.My son [15 years and 5 days old] committed suicide in our home.I wondered if we could stand being here again.We are,though and it's okay.
This is the home he was raised in .It would be sad to leave all the good memories.Also I believe the Angels were with him.I imagine that area flooded with Angels and that makes it okay.My daughter found my son,my husband tried to revive him with CPR. Neither has expressed wanting to leave here.
It wasn't a murder,but a traumatic ,ugly death,just the same.It's amazing how the mind helps you cope.
It did take over 3 years before we could change his room,though.

songline
12-20-2008, 02:57 PM
According to Fox News, The FBI has finally responded to the many "claims" that Caylee was taken out of her local Orlando area.

"As to the question of whether someone might have taken Caylee out of the Orlando area where she lived, the FBI said there wasn't any indication that was the case.

"At no time did we find any evidence that this young child left this location," said Tampa FBI Special Agent Steven Ibison."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469785,00.html

Personally I find it significant that the FBI released that large detail, coming on the heel's of the immediate spin by the defense regarding the "Kidnappers" and the the statement by one of the Attorney's that Casey would "never" dump a body that close to her home. :rolleyes:
I believe that LE is attempting to subtly let the public know the truth, even though they are very limited in which details they can release right now.

In my opinion, that statement from Special Agent Ibison basically says "Caylee was killed not far from where she was found, and all of the evidence we have in our possession supports this fact!"

Thoughts? Feedback?
Casey would never dump the body that close to home?
WHY NOT? most killers DO.
It is like being in denial and swearing it is the truth.:rolleyes:

cindysnow3
12-20-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm not sure.My son [15 years and 5 days old] committed suicide in our home.I wondered if we could stand being here again.We are,though and it's okay.
This is the home he was raised in .It would be sad to leave all the good memories.Also I believe the Angels were with him.I imagine that area flooded with Angels and that makes it okay.My daughter found my son,my husband tried to revive him with CPR. Neither has expressed wanting to leave here.
It wasn't a murder,but a traumatic ,ugly death,just the same.It's amazing how the mind helps you cope.
It did take over 3 years before we could change his room,though.

:offtopic:I am so sorry for your loss dear. I am glad you were able to move forward though as hard as it must have been. :hug:

songline
12-20-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm not sure.My son [15 years and 5 days old] committed suicide in our home.I wondered if we could stand being here again.We are,though and it's okay.
This is the home he was raised in .It would be sad to leave all the good memories.Also I believe the Angels were with him.I imagine that area flooded with Angels and that makes it okay.My daughter found my son,my husband tried to revive him with CPR. Neither has expressed wanting to leave here.
It wasn't a murder,but a traumatic ,ugly death,just the same.It's amazing how the mind helps you cope.
It did take over 3 years before we could change his room,though.

Oh Miss James :(
I just wanted to send you a huge (((((HUG)))))
:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

songline
12-20-2008, 03:07 PM
I may be wrong here, but if Casey killed Caylee, put her in the trunk then drove her to the spot where she was found, the dogs would lose her trail in the trunk of car. They would not pick up sent if Caylee was taken by car. Now why the dogs did not pick up the scent if they were taken to the woods , I have no clue. Unless they were not taken to the woods, only having the searchers looking there.

Whenever a child is stolen, and taken away by car, the dogs can usually track child until the trail goes cold on a road or street. Just thinking this could have been what happened.

I think CA has OCD. WHat is with ALL the vacuum cleaners? I have a 2 story house so I have 2 vacuums. She has 4 vacuums and a cleaner. Just an observation. This whole family has issues.

Cindy had refused to give the search teams any of Caylee's garments.
IMHO they could not have done a better job.
There is a difference e between tracking dogs and Cadaver dogs.
There is a reason why Cindy did not want to give them a Caylee garment.
hmmmmm THE ANTHONY'S KNOW and KNEW FROM EARLY ON.

Imajica
12-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Ok I changed the verbage in the title one more time, because there seems to be conflicting viewpoints as to whether the FBI meant Caylee never left the local "neighborhood" or that they meant she never left the "local Orlando area".

Hope that's a happy medium for all. ;)

TURBOTHINK
12-20-2008, 03:21 PM
Right on! A dog cannot trace a car's footsteps. It just isn't possible. They can tell you if a body was in a car or not, but not where the car went.

If the wind was too strong, the dogs would have a hard time searching. Anyone know what type of dogs were used? German Shepherds? They aren't so good for water searches, and I believe when the dogs went it was flooded, was it not? They can still be used for those searches, but their abilities are more for strength and agility / long distances. Up here we train those dogs to be able to go 40km a day, then again the next day. I don't know what the standards are in the US.

If the wind wasn't co-operating during the search, then the dogs would also have a hard time. In that situation, a heavy wooded forest, they would airscent like the diagram I posted on the previous page. The dogs should have still been able to search the area, but it depends how far away from that exact location they were. They should be usually fine to find the location of a body no matter how many days have passed, burried or not. But since reports are saying the area was used as a graveyard of sorts in the past, then there could have been other scents that threw the dogs off.

I'd guess that they weren't close enoguh for the dogs to catch onto the scent of Caylee.

How many dogs were used? Does anyone know?

I have not found where any cadaver dogs were used. There was a report that it had been searched by them, but then when you look back through the documents the only dogs I can find are the ones Gale the psychic had. They are not cadaver dogs.

I would have to see the dog search report before I would believe they used cadaver dogs. The ones Gale used were used on the very far end of those woods and came no where close to where the body was found.

Here dogs are trained totally differently for S/R and cadaver searches. Most dogs are not cross trained for water searches and land searches. More and more they are beginning to do that, but it takes so much time to do it effectively in each type. There are even archeological dogs now which are cadaver dogs but are trained more for old remains.

If they just took in a police dog, then it is likely they didn't find her. Their training is for a totally different type of work.

believe09
12-20-2008, 03:47 PM
This is very interesting-so where is the real crime scene? The house? Did she kill her in the house on 6/15? Did she kill her in the car? Did she kill her outside? If the FBI are indicating she never left the neighborhood alive, I am very interested to get a sense of where you all think that actual crime scene was.

TURBOTHINK
12-20-2008, 03:50 PM
Tracking dogs track LIVE people by following the scent from skin cells we are constantly shedding.We have a tracking dog.
Cadaver dogs are trained to HIT on the smell of decomposition.They don't track that smell.They are led around by their handlers in the hopes of coming upon it.
I've never heard of a dually trained tracking/cadaver dog.

They are doing that more and more now. Mine has been in S/R a little over 3 years and is very good at it. He is now being trained in cadaver work and took to it naturally. Some dogs do, some dogs don't do well in cadaver work. They two are different in a lot of ways, but are also similar.

There are many different areas of training even in cadaver work now. There are "specialities." We work a grid pattern if we are looking for a cadaver piece.

TURBOTHINK
12-20-2008, 03:51 PM
This is very interesting-so where is the real crime scene? The house? Did she kill her in the house on 6/15? Did she kill her in the car? Did she kill her outside? If the FBI are indicating she never left the neighborhood alive, I am very interested to get a sense of where you all think that actual crime scene was.

I think she was killed in the house for some reason.

believe09
12-20-2008, 04:04 PM
I think she was killed in the house for some reason.

This is an amazing thought-I mean Cindy and George were home, correct? So she killed her child while they slept?? OMG can you imagine having to live with that if you are Cindy and George?

I think she killed her in the car...jmo.

suspicious1
12-20-2008, 04:13 PM
This is very interesting-so where is the real crime scene? The house? Did she kill her in the house on 6/15? Did she kill her in the car? Did she kill her outside? If the FBI are indicating she never left the neighborhood alive, I am very interested to get a sense of where you all think that actual crime scene was.

I believe that Caylee was killed in the home. The cadaver dogs hit in the backyard, KC's cell phone pings on the day that we suspect she last saw her daughter, and now the FBI must have evidence to support their statement that Caylee never left neighborhood.

KR2tonenow
12-20-2008, 06:22 PM
I changed the title to reflect that more clearly. I re-read the article after seeing your post, and I agree they were specifically talking about her neighborhood.

Even the defense is going to have a hard time explaining how little Caylee never left the area when she was supposedly "kidnapped" at Blanchard Park, and then whisked away to some mysterious far away place with her favorite book and a handy cell phone conveniently programmed with the word "Mommy"! :rolleyes:

Good article. The information about the book is very telling. This person who dumped her body did so in a "rage". That is a clear give away to me.

RR0004
12-20-2008, 06:39 PM
Interesting that the FBI said this.

I have longbelieved that the defense was wasting their time picking apart OCSO and now M.E. when it is the FBI that is running this show.

They can second guess Dr. G all they want..and LE too...but when the FBI, backed by Quantico, presents their evidence...NO DOUBT the jurors will be starining their ears to hear their every word.

Notice the 'talking heads" on CNN, Fox, etc. They never question the FBI. In fact, Michael Baden on down have said their labs and their findings are so impeccable, so precise, they are almost impossible to refute..

They have been on this investigation the whole time. It's asinine to think they told local LE " yea go dig around over there, let us know what you found..give us a shout when you have something".

There's been more blue jackets with FBI on it than I have seen together for a long time.
I do believe they were involved along the way...they are more visible now because the body was located. I saw a jacket that read "Crimes Against Children" or something to that effect.

J. Brannagh
12-20-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm not sure.My son [15 years and 5 days old] committed suicide in our home.I wondered if we could stand being here again.We are,though and it's okay.
This is the home he was raised in .It would be sad to leave all the good memories.Also I believe the Angels were with him.I imagine that area flooded with Angels and that makes it okay.My daughter found my son,my husband tried to revive him with CPR. Neither has expressed wanting to leave here.
It wasn't a murder,but a traumatic ,ugly death,just the same.It's amazing how the mind helps you cope.
It did take over 3 years before we could change his room,though.


I'm so sorry to hear about your son Miss James... I have a 16 year old son... one of his friends sister's committed suicide a couple of months ago and he was in tears for a couple of days.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I believe in the angels too :)

Star12
12-20-2008, 07:42 PM
Good article. The information about the book is very telling. This person who dumped her body did so in a "rage". That is a clear give away to me.

I saw a media report that mentioned a book. I have not seen any official report on the book.

However, wouldn't a book that was out in the elements for six months not look much like a book anymore? Wouldnt it 'dissolve'?

I did see the photo and the blowup. Even before the first discussion about the book, that's what I thought I saw, too. But after looking at it a bit more, I was thinking it had to be the golden and brown leaves with sunlight on them.

Do we have any actual authentication on the book?

azwriter
12-20-2008, 08:12 PM
I may be wrong here, but if Casey killed Caylee, put her in the trunk then drove her to the spot where she was found, the dogs would lose her trail in the trunk of car. They would not pick up sent if Caylee was taken by car. Now why the dogs did not pick up the scent if they were taken to the woods , I have no clue. Unless they were not taken to the woods, only having the searchers looking there.

Whenever a child is stolen, and taken away by car, the dogs can usually track child until the trail goes cold on a road or street. Just thinking this could have been what happened.

I think CA has OCD. WHat is with ALL the vacuum cleaners? I have a 2 story house so I have 2 vacuums. She has 4 vacuums and a cleaner. Just an observation. This whole family has issues.

About those vacuum cleaners. I thought George did detailing on cars at one time in his career. He would have need for several types of cleaning machines or vacuums.
Taking stock in my own household, and none of us details cars, we have three types of vacuums. One for the house (which I hate and call "the tank,"; a shop vacuum and an upholstery vac which can be used on furniture and car interiors. I think the majority of those vacs may have been purchased by George for his use, too.

IRule254
12-20-2008, 08:26 PM
I saw a media report that mentioned a book. I have not seen any official report on the book.

However, wouldn't a book that was out in the elements for six months not look much like a book anymore? Wouldnt it 'dissolve'?

I did see the photo and the blowup. Even before the first discussion about the book, that's what I thought I saw, too. But after looking at it a bit more, I was thinking it had to be the golden and brown leaves with sunlight on them.

Do we have any actual authentication on the book?

It is really hard to destroy a board book (if there is, indeed, a book) the pages are "laminated" so to speak.

I didn't want to see the book at first, either, but there are very few things that straight in nature.

jujube
12-20-2008, 08:43 PM
According to Fox News, The FBI has finally responded to the many "claims" that Caylee was taken out of her local Orlando area.

"As to the question of whether someone might have taken Caylee out of the Orlando area where she lived, the FBI said there wasn't any indication that was the case.

"At no time did we find any evidence that this young child left this location," said Tampa FBI Special Agent Steven Ibison."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469785,00.html

Personally I find it significant that the FBI released that large detail, coming on the heel's of the immediate spin by the defense regarding the "Kidnappers" and the the statement by one of In my opinion, that statement from Special Agent Ibison basically says "Caylee was killed not far from where she was found, and all of the evidence we have in our possession supports this fact!"

Thoughts? Feedback?

I saw an FBI profiler interviewed and he said that when women kill they dump their victims close to home.


I don't think it's what LE is saying, I think it's more what they ARE NOT saying in this case.

I am going to step out on a limb and say that someone else in the A's home knows more than we have been told and may soon be arrested because of their involvement. If someone else was involved "in the home", I believe it is because they may have found out the truth after KC was let out on bail the first time. They then may have made an effort to help in the cover up.

I was thinking about something in the past few days. If Caylee was dead when she was dumped in that field she had to be heavy. How did KC open the trunk, pull her out and carry her to the woods with no one seeing a thing? I weigh more then KC and I think that I would have trouble doing that. When my youngest grandson was her age he used to fall asleep and he was quite heavy to move to his bed.

We just took a trip, so I can speak about the weight issue. I weigh +/- 130 lbs, I'm 5'4" tall and I'm 50 years old. My suitcase weighed 40 lbs. I could lift it onto my bed. If my suitcase had been a bag, I could have easily thrown it over my shoulder and carried it easier. I have no diificulty imagining a 22 year old woman in good shape lifting a garbage bag with a 35 lb child in it.

You know,I think that Cindy and George gave Casey an out if she wanted it, the pool. If she told them that Caylee drowned while she was on the phone and she panicked this would have ended months ago. I am sure they suggested that to her while she was out on bond. She just cannot admit that she did such a senseless thing. She must really think she can bluff and lie her way through this whole horrible event. I don't think she will ever, ever tell anyone what really happened.

Many socio/psycho paths think they're smarter than anybody. They also think they can do no wrong. KC may well have formulated in her head a reason why it was ok to kill Caylee and therefore, she's not at fault-in her own mind.

I'm not sure.My son [15 years and 5 days old] committed suicide in our home.I wondered if we could stand being here again.We are,though and it's okay.
This is the home he was raised in .It would be sad to leave all the good memories.Also I believe the Angels were with him.I imagine that area flooded with Angels and that makes it okay.My daughter found my son,my husband tried to revive him with CPR. Neither has expressed wanting to leave here.
It wasn't a murder,but a traumatic ,ugly death,just the same.It's amazing how the mind helps you cope.
It did take over 3 years before we could change his room,though.

:hug:

Imajica
12-20-2008, 09:25 PM
I'm not sure.My son [15 years and 5 days old] committed suicide in our home.I wondered if we could stand being here again.We are,though and it's okay.
This is the home he was raised in .It would be sad to leave all the good memories.Also I believe the Angels were with him.I imagine that area flooded with Angels and that makes it okay.My daughter found my son,my husband tried to revive him with CPR. Neither has expressed wanting to leave here.
It wasn't a murder,but a traumatic ,ugly death,just the same.It's amazing how the mind helps you cope.
It did take over 3 years before we could change his room,though.

I wanted to give you great big warm hugs from one Mom to another!!

:grouphug::blowkiss:

My husband and I have each lost a close family member to suicide. There are no words. I am so sorry for your loss. If you ever need to talk, I'm always willing to listen.

*tight hugs*

MissJames
12-20-2008, 10:27 PM
They are doing that more and more now. Mine has been in S/R a little over 3 years and is very good at it. He is now being trained in cadaver work and took to it naturally. Some dogs do, some dogs don't do well in cadaver work. They two are different in a lot of ways, but are also similar.

There are many different areas of training even in cadaver work now. There are "specialities." We work a grid pattern if we are looking for a cadaver piece.

Wow..I'm very interested in this. How do they know when they are to alert for cadaver and when they are tracking a live person.Would they ever alert for something other than cadaver scent? The reason I ask is there were a lot of questions about the cadaver dogs hitting on a dead animal or rotten food.It was said they are highly trained to ignore other scents and only alert to cadaver.How can you train a dog to do both?
Not being argumentative.I believe it....just confused.

MissJames
12-20-2008, 10:31 PM
Thanks to all for the comfort.It's a rough time of year.My son's birthday was the day aftter Christmas and he died on New Years Eve.
We are okay now.I've said before,I don't post about his death for sympathy,but to give perspective.
I feel for the A's,but their behavior IMO is not related to their grief.

txsvicki
12-20-2008, 10:33 PM
Tracking dogs track LIVE people by following the scent from skin cells we are constantly shedding.We have a tracking dog.
Cadaver dogs are trained to HIT on the smell of decomposition.They don't track that smell.They are led around by their handlers in the hopes of coming upon it.
I've never heard of a dually trained tracking/cadaver dog.

I'm talking about one like Dobber the search dog who tracked Laci Peterson's body all the way from the home, to the storage shed, and all the way down a highway out to the very end of the pier where he stood staring out at the water. The way I understood it, he was dually trained to track the person's scent but also cadaver. Sharon Rocha was so impressed with search dogs that she is said to have donated the proceeds of her book to them. Maybe someone else can explain or point out errors in this better than me.

passionflower
12-20-2008, 11:01 PM
kc never left orlando and I'm beginning to think Caylee never left that house alive!!! IMO

okiedokietoo
12-20-2008, 11:18 PM
I may be wrong here, but if Casey killed Caylee, put her in the trunk then drove her to the spot where she was found, the dogs would lose her trail in the trunk of car. They would not pick up sent if Caylee was taken by car. Now why the dogs did not pick up the scent if they were taken to the woods , I have no clue. Unless they were not taken to the woods, only having the searchers looking there.

Whenever a child is stolen, and taken away by car, the dogs can usually track child until the trail goes cold on a road or street. Just thinking this could have been what happened.

I think CA has OCD. WHat is with ALL the vacuum cleaners? I have a 2 story house so I have 2 vacuums. She has 4 vacuums and a cleaner. Just an observation. This whole family has issues.
it was also at least 31 days since Caylees body had been in the trunk of the car at the house (when she was backing into the garage) if you go by LE saying she died the night of the 15th or early 16th of June

sweetwater
12-21-2008, 01:14 AM
What was Cindy's comment/testimony about having heard Caylee and Casey, breathing, as she left the house on the 16th?
That's bothered me from the beginning, even before I started learning to interpret Cindyspeak. Isn't it an odd statement/recollection?
Same as George, didn't he say he saw them leave at a very peculiar time, like 1:50?

IRule254
12-21-2008, 01:18 AM
What was Cindy's comment/testimony about having heard Caylee and Casey, breathing, as she left the house on the 16th?
That's bothered me from the beginning, even before I started learning to interpret Cindyspeak. Isn't it an odd statement/recollection?
Same as George, didn't he say he saw them leave at a very peculiar time, like 1:50?

Woah! I don't remember this. What the heck?

sweetwater
12-21-2008, 01:19 AM
I hate speculating, but I, too think Casey killed Casey in the house. I don't know enough about decomp and cadaver dogs to know why, if that happened, the dogs didn't pick up on something. Anybody got a thought about this?

IRule254
12-21-2008, 01:20 AM
I hate speculating, but I, too think Casey killed Casey in the house. I don't know enough about decomp and cadaver dogs to know why, if that happened, the dogs didn't pick up on something. Anybody got a thought about this?

I would have to look it up, but I believe that if the body was moved to the car quickly (which is what I believe) then the dogs wouldn't pick up on it.

sweetwater
12-21-2008, 01:25 AM
Woah! I don't remember this. What the heck?

Yeah. What the heck?
It was Cindy's way of saying they were alive, in Casey's room that morning.

sweetwater
12-21-2008, 01:30 AM
I would have to look it up, but I believe that if the body was moved to the car quickly (which is what I believe) then the dogs wouldn't pick up on it.

Or moved out to the yard/sandbox, around that hibiscus next to the pool, or out to that indentation in the yard that George told the crime scene investigator he didn't remember being there before.
That's another biggie for me.
Remember, the Anthonys did NOT tell the first investigators that they had re-done the yard and brought in pavers. One of the neighbors told a reporter, who notified LE, who then came back out.
:croc::liar:

SeekingJana
12-21-2008, 08:53 AM
IMO, in the time period of 13 years since the Internet has provided a forum for true crime discussion, there have been three familial murder cases which captured America's and the world's hearts and which provoked an extremely high level of discussion.
They are: JonBenet Ramsey murder; Laci and Connor Peterson murders; Caylee Anthony murder.

The first two famous cases, JonBenet's and Laci's, have taught us some things about trace crime scene evidence. Probably more than we wanted to know.

The first principle we shouldn't ignore is that in the other two cases, there were information leaks. Significant leaks from the Petersons, and some probably from both sides. There were undeniable serious leaks in the JBR case, enormous and significant leaks which compromised an already poorly processed crime scene to the point of probable unprovability. But, dead is dead. Our sweet JonBenet has been gone over a decade and through her case discussion, discussion of the autopsy report and also details of the basement crime scene, we learned much about what happens when a child dies at the hands of another family member in her own home.

In Caylee's case, not so much information has been leaked as rumors, IMO. I believe we have the barest of facts about Caylee's last days of life and her death, which is a good thing going into trial. I think we should recognize that we don't have any major player in the Caylee case running their mouth like we had in both Laci's case and JonBenet's- both probably done in an attempt to contaminate a jury pool and obfuscate the case details.

Next, and I think this is very important, we learned that when people die, whether a 30 pound child or a 100+ pound heavily pregnant woman, bodily fluids are released at the time of death. Bowel and bladder muscles involuntarily release their contents. If the victim was strangled, there may be traces of vomit and blood-tinged saliva.

If Caylee was killed in the Anthony's house, as she well might have been, the house has had a thorough crime scene processing for large dried residue of urine and perhaps saliva and vomit, depending upon the method of killing and whether or not she was still in diapers. I would think she was out of diapers, but I can't say as she seemed to be behind the curve verbally, probably due to lack of consistent parenting (understatement).

I have read that the Anthony house has had both permanent carpeting and area rugs removed. No household cleaner will completely eliminate residue, because in the removing attempts, the same fluids are smeared and spread out wards.

We have heard evidence of this smearing transfer happening in both JonBenet's murder ( urine transferred on her clothing, evidence that the body was wiped down, urine found in the hallway outside the wine cellar room) and Laci's ( mop with traces of bodily fluids and also dining room/ kitchen floor with biological residue).
IMO, there is no reason to think that the same doesn't/ didn't exist in the Anthony house.

It was confusing for a while when we were informed of a " dark stain" in the trunk along with the decomp. smell. I believe the stain is related to bowel contents being pushed out of Caylee's remains by decomp. gases in the trunk. This is one of the first steps of overt human decomposition due to the large amount of normal bacteria in the lower GI tract.

I used to think that maybe Caylee was thrown in the trunk alive, and allowed to die. But, with that theory comes the possibility that :
1) She would be heard thrashing about, kicking, or tape coming off and screaming, thus living, with Casey in deep undeniable trouble immediately. No time for Fusian partying... a one way ticket to jail, which I don't think she ever believed would happen.
2) Casey probably has very little knowledge of human biology and pathology. Casey could not be assured that if she left her child in a car overnight, with drugs and even Chloroform, that the child would be dead in the AM. She could have been brain- damaged but alive, which would then necessitate more effort on the part of a very disorganized mind to finish the killing and hide all evidence as best as possible.
3) Casey never wanted Caylee, not even to be born. I think this is painfully and horribly obvious to all now. When she decided to kill her, she didn't do it in a moment of white hot impulsive anger. She researched children's deaths and disappearances for a while, according to what we do know already from her home computer files.
I believe the FBI and other LE has a clear cut theory on where and how Caylee was killed. We simply don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. Unless Casey takes a plea deal, which I don't see her doing now, we will learn how experts believe Caylee was killed and where during the trial. George may be instrumental in his observations as retired LE.
The most important thing we know at this point, IMO, is that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of Casey's car for 2-3 days in the hot Florida sun before it was dumped in the wooded area. Nothing can undo or adequately explain away the death bands on the hair and the biological material stain on the carpeting in the trunk. Nothing can undo or explain away the maggots and flies which fed on the human remains, some insects which probably had human biologic material in their digestive tracts on dissection.

I believe there has been much discovered within the Anthony house in recent weeks. Perhaps from the start, but maybe search efforts were limited by law until the remains were found so close to the house.
The house became a solid crime scene when Caylee's body was found so close to it, and when her book, also from the house, was found with her skeletal remains. IMO.

Maria

Imajica
12-21-2008, 01:40 PM
IMO, in the time period of 13 years since the Internet has provided a forum for true crime discussion, there have been three familial murder cases which captured America's and the world's hearts and which provoked an extremely high level of discussion.
They are: JonBenet Ramsey murder; Laci and Connor Peterson murders; Caylee Anthony murder.

The first two famous cases, JonBenet's and Laci's, have taught us some things about trace crime scene evidence. Probably more than we wanted to know.

The first principle we shouldn't ignore is that in the other two cases, there were information leaks. Significant leaks from the Petersons, and some probably from both sides. There were undeniable serious leaks in the JBR case, enormous and significant leaks which compromised an already poorly processed crime scene to the point of probable unprovability. But, dead is dead. Our sweet JonBenet has been gone over a decade and through her case discussion, discussion of the autopsy report and also details of the basement crime scene, we learned much about what happens when a child dies at the hands of another family member in her own home.

In Caylee's case, not so much information has been leaked as rumors, IMO. I believe we have the barest of facts about Caylee's last days of life and her death, which is a good thing going into trial. I think we should recognize that we don't have any major player in the Caylee case running their mouth like we had in both Laci's case and JonBenet's- both probably done in an attempt to contaminate a jury pool and obfuscate the case details.

Next, and I think this is very important, we learned that when people die, whether a 30 pound child or a 100+ pound heavily pregnant woman, bodily fluids are released at the time of death. Bowel and bladder muscles involuntarily release their contents. If the victim was strangled, there may be traces of vomit and blood-tinged saliva.

If Caylee was killed in the Anthony's house, as she well might have been, the house has had a thorough crime scene processing for large dried residue of urine and perhaps saliva and vomit, depending upon the method of killing and whether or not she was still in diapers. I would think she was out of diapers, but I can't say as she seemed to be behind the curve verbally, probably due to lack of consistent parenting (understatement).

I have read that the Anthony house has had both permanent carpeting and area rugs removed. No household cleaner will completely eliminate residue, because in the removing attempts, the same fluids are smeared and spread out wards.

We have heard evidence of this smearing transfer happening in both JonBenet's murder ( urine transferred on her clothing, evidence that the body was wiped down, urine found in the hallway outside the wine cellar room) and Laci's ( mop with traces of bodily fluids and also dining room/ kitchen floor with biological residue).
IMO, there is no reason to think that the same doesn't/ didn't exist in the Anthony house.

It was confusing for a while when we were informed of a " dark stain" in the trunk along with the decomp. smell. I believe the stain is related to bowel contents being pushed out of Caylee's remains by decomp. gases in the trunk. This is one of the first steps of overt human decomposition due to the large amount of normal bacteria in the lower GI tract.

I used to think that maybe Caylee was thrown in the trunk alive, and allowed to die. But, with that theory comes the possibility that :
1) She would be heard thrashing about, kicking, or tape coming off and screaming, thus living, with Casey in deep undeniable trouble immediately. No time for Fusian partying... a one way ticket to jail, which I don't think she ever believed would happen.
2) Casey probably has very little knowledge of human biology and pathology. Casey could not be assured that if she left her child in a car overnight, with drugs and even Chloroform, that the child would be dead in the AM. She could have been brain- damaged but alive, which would then necessitate more effort on the part of a very disorganized mind to finish the killing and hide all evidence as best as possible.
3) Casey never wanted Caylee, not even to be born. I think this is painfully and horribly obvious to all now. When she decided to kill her, she didn't do it in a moment of white hot impulsive anger. She researched children's deaths and disappearances for a while, according to what we do know already from her home computer files.
I believe the FBI and other LE has a clear cut theory on where and how Caylee was killed. We simply don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. Unless Casey takes a plea deal, which I don't see her doing now, we will learn how experts believe Caylee was killed and where during the trial. George may be instrumental in his observations as retired LE.
The most important thing we know at this point, IMO, is that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of Casey's car for 2-3 days in the hot Florida sun before it was dumped in the wooded area. Nothing can undo or adequately explain away the death bands on the hair and the biological material stain on the carpeting in the trunk. Nothing can undo or explain away the maggots and flies which fed on the human remains, some insects which probably had human biologic material in their digestive tracts on dissection.

I believe there has been much discovered within the Anthony house in recent weeks. Perhaps from the start, but maybe search efforts were limited by law until the remains were found so close to the house.
The house became a solid crime scene when Caylee's body was found so close to it, and when her book, also from the house, was found with her skeletal remains. IMO.

Maria

Wow, that was an amazing post!! Very thorough!! You make some very powerful points. Especially regarding the trunk evidence. It's going to be impossible to explain away the biological materials related to decomp in Casey's trunk! Especially since at no time in Casey's lies did she ever say that the Invisible Nanny drove her car!

I agree that these high profile cases have taught Law Enforcement a great deal about forensic discovery. I am glad that the loss of these precious lives has had some sort of positive consequence.

I like to think that Jon Benet is playing Dollies with Caylee in Heaven..

:(

pirate
12-21-2008, 01:59 PM
Great post, Maria. We all have to remember that the evidence of decomp in the trunk, including Caylee's hairs is going to prove to be THE SMOKING GUN in this case. Even if the defense wants to claim that Casey didn't dispose of the body, she sure drove around with it in her trunk.

shelbar53
12-21-2008, 08:43 PM
IMO, in the time period of 13 years since the Internet has provided a forum for true crime discussion, there have been three familial murder cases which captured America's and the world's hearts and which provoked an extremely high level of discussion.
They are: JonBenet Ramsey murder; Laci and Connor Peterson murders; Caylee Anthony murder.

The first two famous cases, JonBenet's and Laci's, have taught us some things about trace crime scene evidence. Probably more than we wanted to know.

The first principle we shouldn't ignore is that in the other two cases, there were information leaks. Significant leaks from the Petersons, and some probably from both sides. There were undeniable serious leaks in the JBR case, enormous and significant leaks which compromised an already poorly processed crime scene to the point of probable unprovability. But, dead is dead. Our sweet JonBenet has been gone over a decade and through her case discussion, discussion of the autopsy report and also details of the basement crime scene, we learned much about what happens when a child dies at the hands of another family member in her own home.

In Caylee's case, not so much information has been leaked as rumors, IMO. I believe we have the barest of facts about Caylee's last days of life and her death, which is a good thing going into trial. I think we should recognize that we don't have any major player in the Caylee case running their mouth like we had in both Laci's case and JonBenet's- both probably done in an attempt to contaminate a jury pool and obfuscate the case details.

Next, and I think this is very important, we learned that when people die, whether a 30 pound child or a 100+ pound heavily pregnant woman, bodily fluids are released at the time of death. Bowel and bladder muscles involuntarily release their contents. If the victim was strangled, there may be traces of vomit and blood-tinged saliva.

If Caylee was killed in the Anthony's house, as she well might have been, the house has had a thorough crime scene processing for large dried residue of urine and perhaps saliva and vomit, depending upon the method of killing and whether or not she was still in diapers. I would think she was out of diapers, but I can't say as she seemed to be behind the curve verbally, probably due to lack of consistent parenting (understatement).

I have read that the Anthony house has had both permanent carpeting and area rugs removed. No household cleaner will completely eliminate residue, because in the removing attempts, the same fluids are smeared and spread out wards.

We have heard evidence of this smearing transfer happening in both JonBenet's murder ( urine transferred on her clothing, evidence that the body was wiped down, urine found in the hallway outside the wine cellar room) and Laci's ( mop with traces of bodily fluids and also dining room/ kitchen floor with biological residue).
IMO, there is no reason to think that the same doesn't/ didn't exist in the Anthony house.

It was confusing for a while when we were informed of a " dark stain" in the trunk along with the decomp. smell. I believe the stain is related to bowel contents being pushed out of Caylee's remains by decomp. gases in the trunk. This is one of the first steps of overt human decomposition due to the large amount of normal bacteria in the lower GI tract.

I used to think that maybe Caylee was thrown in the trunk alive, and allowed to die. But, with that theory comes the possibility that :
1) She would be heard thrashing about, kicking, or tape coming off and screaming, thus living, with Casey in deep undeniable trouble immediately. No time for Fusian partying... a one way ticket to jail, which I don't think she ever believed would happen.
2) Casey probably has very little knowledge of human biology and pathology. Casey could not be assured that if she left her child in a car overnight, with drugs and even Chloroform, that the child would be dead in the AM. She could have been brain- damaged but alive, which would then necessitate more effort on the part of a very disorganized mind to finish the killing and hide all evidence as best as possible.
3) Casey never wanted Caylee, not even to be born. I think this is painfully and horribly obvious to all now. When she decided to kill her, she didn't do it in a moment of white hot impulsive anger. She researched children's deaths and disappearances for a while, according to what we do know already from her home computer files.
I believe the FBI and other LE has a clear cut theory on where and how Caylee was killed. We simply don't have all the puzzle pieces yet. Unless Casey takes a plea deal, which I don't see her doing now, we will learn how experts believe Caylee was killed and where during the trial. George may be instrumental in his observations as retired LE.
The most important thing we know at this point, IMO, is that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk of Casey's car for 2-3 days in the hot Florida sun before it was dumped in the wooded area. Nothing can undo or adequately explain away the death bands on the hair and the biological material stain on the carpeting in the trunk. Nothing can undo or explain away the maggots and flies which fed on the human remains, some insects which probably had human biologic material in their digestive tracts on dissection.

I believe there has been much discovered within the Anthony house in recent weeks. Perhaps from the start, but maybe search efforts were limited by law until the remains were found so close to the house.
The house became a solid crime scene when Caylee's body was found so close to it, and when her book, also from the house, was found with her skeletal remains. IMO.

Maria

Interesting post, however I have not read about "permanent carpeting and area rugs removed."

Any idea on where I can read that info?

IIRC the A's put the pavers in around the July 4th holiday. Is that what you remember?

scandi
12-21-2008, 09:05 PM
it was also at least 31 days since Caylees body had been in the trunk of the car at the house (when she was backing into the garage) if you go by LE saying she died the night of the 15th or early 16th of June


Hi Okiedokietoo, In the Madeleine McCann case I have done a lot of study on sniffer dogs. One of the first things I learned is that a human recovery dog can sniff a death scent for up to 7 years.

I qualify that to say it also depends on the quality of the dog, and the scent can linger up to 7 years ;}



ETA: Hi Txsvicki, Shades if yesterday. I remember learning about that special tracker dog sniffing little flakes of skin down the hwy to the marina and ending up like you say at the end of the pier looking out over the water. To this day my heart still skipps a beat when I contemplate anything to do with losing Laci and Connor. xox

Intermezzo
12-21-2008, 09:15 PM
I havent read the whole thread yet, so forgive me if this has been said, but if they know she wasnt taken out of the neighborhood, then I wonder how she was killed and where, because it obviously wasnt a bloody death (God, I hate writing that) because no signs of obvious blood trauma have been found so far (that we know of).......so what are your thoughts on this finding?


How is ?????
My own thoughts Where could be:
Anthony Home(somewhere on the property, pool..)
In Casey's car
The playground at the Elementary School or somewhere in that vicinty, only because school was out for the summer and few to no people would be driving on that part of Suburban Dr since it came to a dead end at the school and wooded on both sides of the road for a good portion.
Probably one of the reasons why Caylee's body was dumped there.

DotsEyes
12-21-2008, 11:32 PM
Never left Orlando? She never left the house alive!

Caylee died at home, at the hands of her mother. The only time she left the house was in a gabage bag to be thrown in the trunk until mommy had time to dump the bag into the swampy woods.

Everyone can understand a terrible accident. It is sort of those "but for the Grace of God" kind of things. But, this was no accident. If it were, KC would be blaming everyone and everything around her forthe accident, i.e., blaming someone else for not putting the pool ladder away, blaming someone else for leaving poison where Caylee could reach it, etc.

Imajica
12-22-2008, 12:02 AM
Interesting post, however I have not read about "permanent carpeting and area rugs removed."

Any idea on where I can read that info?

IIRC the A's put the pavers in around the July 4th holiday. Is that what you remember?

Ahh yes, I wanted to ask about the carpeting info as well. Thanks for the memory jog. ;) I hadn't heard that tidbit previously. Anyone know where that is referenced?

Laneymae
12-22-2008, 12:51 AM
~ snip ~

They can second guess Dr. G all they want..and LE too...but when the FBI, backed by Quantico, presents their evidence...NO DOUBT the jurors will be starining their ears to hear their every word.

I love this part because Casey asked the FBI to get involved. :behindbar:slap:

capoly
12-22-2008, 09:14 AM
Actually that's the fourth version:

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG on the steps of the Sawgrass apartments and Casey then drove off to go to work (Casey)

- ZFG and her sister Samantha, in Blanchard Park, knocked Casey down, snatched Caylee from Casey's arms, then got in a car with Samantha's 2 children and drove off (Baez, Lee, LP)

- Casey handed off Caylee to ZFG in Blanchard Park (Todd Black)

- Casey dropped Caylee off with ZFG and another woman in an apartment complex parking lot and saw them drive away together (Baez)

We need to start making a dartboard with all these different versions.


In looking for info on another child in Florida I came across the article below. At first I thought the paper had Casey's story mixed in with someone elses. Rather strange.

Missing Boy Found But Case Remains A Mystery

http://cbs4.com/local/Missing.Baby.Tyvon.2.481019.html?detectflash=false

KR2tonenow
12-22-2008, 01:52 PM
I saw a media report that mentioned a book. I have not seen any official report on the book.

However, wouldn't a book that was out in the elements for six months not look much like a book anymore? Wouldnt it 'dissolve'?

I did see the photo and the blowup. Even before the first discussion about the book, that's what I thought I saw, too. But after looking at it a bit more, I was thinking it had to be the golden and brown leaves with sunlight on them.

Do we have any actual authentication on the book?

Maybe a fellow sleuther can tract it, but I think this item if found will play a huge part for the Prosecution. A kidnapper would throw items away and then dispose the body. Why? This identifies this baby quickly. KC in a panic (in trying to make this look like a kidnapping) would assume that items she had last with her, would go into the woods (wrong). No jury in the world will buy the theory that someone else did it.

Coley
12-22-2008, 01:58 PM
According to Fox News, The FBI has finally responded to the many "claims" that Caylee was taken out of her local Orlando area.

"As to the question of whether someone might have taken Caylee out of the Orlando area where she lived, the FBI said there wasn't any indication that was the case.

"At no time did we find any evidence that this young child left this location," said Tampa FBI Special Agent Steven Ibison."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469785,00.html

Personally I find it significant that the FBI released that large detail, coming on the heel's of the immediate spin by the defense regarding the "Kidnappers" and the the statement by one of the Attorney's that Casey would "never" dump a body that close to her home. :rolleyes:

I believe that LE is attempting to subtly let the public know the truth, even though they are very limited in which details they can release right now.

In my opinion, that statement from Special Agent Ibison basically says "Caylee was killed not far from where she was found, and all of the evidence we have in our possession supports this fact!"

Thoughts? Feedback?


All I have to say is DUH. KC never left the area either.

ETA: The pings told us this months ago so I'm confused why the FBI would even say this or is it just the media looking for a story?

Coley
12-22-2008, 01:59 PM
Maybe a fellow sleuther can tract it, but I think this item if found will play a huge part for the Prosecution. A kidnapper would throw items away and then dispose the body. Why? This identifies this baby quickly. KC in a panic (in trying to make this look like a kidnapping) would assume that items she had last with her, would go into the woods (wrong). No jury in the world will buy the theory that someone else did it.


It's in the crime scene photos. It's the same book she was reading in the video.

CPP
12-22-2008, 02:07 PM
If CA had bothered to give TM something of Caylee's for his dogs to sniff, they would have found her the first time.

ITA, That fact, and giving LE KC's hairbrush instead of Caylee's lead me to believe that, while she may not have participated, CA knew by then what had happened and was deliberately trying to obstruct evidence building. The question for me is, was it a gut feeling or did she have actual knowledge?

Coley
12-22-2008, 02:08 PM
ITA, That fact, and giving LE KC's hairbrush instead of Kaylees lead me to believe that she, while she may not have participated, CA knew by then what had happened.

That spells out participating to me, regardless if it was after the fact.

MOO

Imajica
12-22-2008, 02:12 PM
All I have to say is DUH. KC never left the area either.

ETA: The pings told us this months ago so I'm confused why the FBI would even say this or is it just the media looking for a story?

In my opinion, I believe the FBI made the statement to subtly refute the instantaneous spin by the defense that the "Invisible Nanny" who supposedly whisked Caylee out of Orlando and took her to some remote location, was a complete bunch of crap the entire time.

A "reasonable person" would assume that if Caylee never left her local neighborhood at all, then there is only one person who could have killed her. Since they are limited in what they can and cannot say, I believe this was their quiet way of a rebuttal to this ludicrous story.

But yes, "DUH!!" was my first reaction to the story too. ;)

Coley
12-22-2008, 02:15 PM
In my opinion, I believe the FBI made the statement to subtly refute the instantaneous spin by the defense that the "Invisible Nanny" who supposedly whisked Caylee out of Orlando and took her to some remote location, was a complete bunch of crap the entire time.

A "reasonable person" would assume that if Caylee never left her local neighborhood at all, then there is only one person who could have killed her. Since they are limited in what they can and cannot say, I believe this was their quiet way of a rebuttal to this ludicrous story.

But yes, "DUH!!" was my first reaction to the story too. ;)

You know it's funny that JB stated they were a step ahead of LE (about the remains being identified and him being at the jail) but it seems that we are a step ahead of JB.

Gosh, some people do attend spin class regularly at the local gym in Orlando.

SeriouslySearching
12-22-2008, 02:26 PM
It's in the crime scene photos. It's the same book she was reading in the video.And if this is true...then Cindy knew from Day 1 not Day 31. Simple.

Coley
12-22-2008, 02:35 PM
And if this is true...then Cindy knew from Day 1 not Day 31. Simple.

Exactly.

Itzsue
12-22-2008, 02:45 PM
Yup, yup...Caylee left the house; went into the trunk; and dumped like trash. Just like I do with my Christmas tree when I'm tired of taking care of it!

sweetwater
12-22-2008, 02:45 PM
Here' a question for all your super sleuthin' fine minds-

Does anybody remember ever seeing Casey even vaguely exhibiting signs of panic or anxiety? I know we have heard that she had nightmares/nightsweats for a few days during the probable timeline of Caylee being left to decompose in her car or sandbox or somewhere, but other than that, is there any evidence that she experiences or reveals any normal, spontaneous emotion other than anger and disgust with others?
I keep hearing "oh, she did this or that in a moment of panic".... I just don't see any evidence of panic, anyplace. She drove around with her daughter decomposing in her car for days.... where's the panic?

okiedokietoo
12-22-2008, 03:41 PM
Hi Okiedokietoo, In the Madeleine McCann case I have done a lot of study on sniffer dogs. One of the first things I learned is that a human recovery dog can sniff a death scent for up to 7 years.

I qualify that to say it also depends on the quality of the dog, and the scent can linger up to 7 years ;}



ETA: Hi Txsvicki, Shades if yesterday. I remember learning about that special tracker dog sniffing little flakes of skin down the hwy to the marina and ending up like you say at the end of the pier looking out over the water. To this day my heart still skipps a beat when I contemplate anything to do with losing Laci and Connor. xox

Yes although my post was responding as to why the dogs didn't lead LE down the street from the house to the spot of the remains. If KC took a different route when she left the house, went to TL's or JBP, drove around town and then, coming from TL's or coming from someplace other than the house and then dumped the remains - that would make a difference

suzet
12-22-2008, 03:50 PM
Here' a question for all your super sleuthin' fine minds-

Does anybody remember ever seeing Casey even vaguely exhibiting signs of panic or anxiety?

*snipped*

Panic? No. Not at all. She is almost fearless, it seems.

suzet
12-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Yes although my post was responding as to why the dogs didn't lead LE down the street from the house to the spot of the remains. If KC took a different route when she left the house, went to TL's or JBP, drove around town and then, coming from TL's or coming from someplace other than the house and then dumped the remains - that would make a difference

I was thinking Casey first went to the area that is shown at the end of psychic Gail's video. It looks like a private road. It's a grassy road with tire marks indicating cars have driven on it. It also appears secluded. Perhaps she dealt with the final wrapping of the body or whatever other prep work she needed to do before dumping, working out of her trunk, and then proceeded to the dumping area.

Manny
12-22-2008, 04:23 PM
Interesting that the FBI said this.

I have longbelieved that the defense was wasting their time picking apart OCSO and now M.E. when it is the FBI that is running this show.

They can second guess Dr. G all they want..and LE too...but when the FBI, backed by Quantico, presents their evidence...NO DOUBT the jurors will be starining their ears to hear their every word.

Notice the 'talking heads" on CNN, Fox, etc. They never question the FBI. In fact, Michael Baden on down have said their labs and their findings are so impeccable, so precise, they are almost impossible to refute..

They have been on this investigation the whole time. It's asinine to think they told local LE " yea go dig around over there, let us know what you found..give us a shout when you have something".

There's been more blue jackets with FBI on it than I have seen together for a long time.


Well, just to play devils advocate, FBI is not infallible. It is interesting to look back at a period in the 90's as well as 2003. I am sure those protocols are corrected by now, but still. We just went through 8 years of problems with the Justice Dept.. soooo. I was, however, very impressed with the Agent who interviewed G and C . I thought he was super. Very good at his job.
http://www.truthinjustice.org/FBI-crime-lab.htm

Brini
12-22-2008, 04:25 PM
You know where some of us screwed up (self definately included). We assumed that KC had some intelligence, and "overthought" her blatherings, looking for clues to some clever and secluded hiding place.

Turns out the idiot dumped the child in the closest woody area to the house! The. Very. Most. OBVIOUS. PLACE.

Recovering-Lurker
12-22-2008, 04:32 PM
You know where some of us screwed up (self definately included). We assumed that KC had some intelligence, and "overthought" her blatherings, looking for clues to some clever and secluded hiding place.

Turns out the idiot dumped the child in the closest woody area to the house! The. Very. Most. OBVIOUS. PLACE.

Yep, exactly. She is lazy and stupid.

Laneymae
12-22-2008, 05:19 PM
Now there is a third version of events. My, my, my. Now she dropped Caylee off in the parking lot of an apartment complex to ZFG who then drove away with Caylee in the car.

Ok. Well, that one doesn't work either. Try again.

Does anyone know where I can find this info about the 3rd version? Thanks!

tiredofthis
12-22-2008, 05:29 PM
Thanks for clearing that up..

I had thought that at some point, maybe Casey was staying in the woods with Caylee's remains.. as sick as that is.. where else was she during the time nobody knew where she was?

:eek: That is sick!

I can't picture her doing that though.

tiredofthis
12-22-2008, 05:34 PM
Thanks to all for the comfort.It's a rough time of year.My son's birthday was the day aftter Christmas and he died on New Years Eve.
We are okay now.I've said before,I don't post about his death for sympathy,but to give perspective.
I feel for the A's,but their behavior IMO is not related to their grief.

{{Hugs}}

I'm so sorry for your loss.