Original newspaper items/articles

[mayfairlight]

Here are some original news items about this case (from newspaper archives)
I thought it best to put them in a separate thread to easily find them. There are a few more, and I will post when I have time to...

High Point, North Carolina, Aug 23, 1976
High Point, North Carolina, Sunday Sep 19 1976
Aiken, South Carolina, Thursday August 11 1977

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8408/highpointnorthcarolinaaky7.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highpointnorthcarolinaaky7.jpg)http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6918/highpointnorthcarolinashs0.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highpointnorthcarolinashs0.jpg)http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2195/aikensouthcarolinathursnp1.th.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aikensouthcarolinathursnp1.jpg)

[Mysterylover]

mayfairlight, Thank You for the newspaper articles.
I noticed one article was from a Akin S.C. paper that is about a 100 miles away from the murders and (ONE) 1 year and 2 days (Aug. 1977) after the murders.

The other 2 articles was from High Point, N.C., 180 miles away...2 weeks to a month After the murders in 1976

I still have a question as to, Where are any S.C. papers reporting/describing these 2 brutal murders in Aug. 1976???

Are these all the articles on the murders you could find?
I right- clicked the articles to make them large enough to read...thanks again for your good work and research!

I have only read one of the articles and have already learned a little more about our Jock.

The following is the new information I found important.
Sumter dentist that checked Jocks mouth and teeth say He was in the process of having a "complete mouth restoration", with several Thousand Dollars $$
worth of root canals, tooth caps and bridge work.
The Dentist say the job was about half finished..

With Jock's mouth/teeth restoration only half complete, would Jock not been returning to have the job completed?
A Dentist, that did this excellent work, should remember this young man with his neat shoulder length hair...and question WHY Jock didn't return.

Our Mystery couple was buried on a Sunday in a Methodist Cemetery in Oswego, a small town north of Sumter..

[Cambria]

[quote=mayfairlight;3264122]Here are some original news items about this case (from newspaper archives)
I thought it best to put them in a separate thread to easily find them. There are a few more, and I will post when I have time to...[quote]

Thanks for posting those. I found those articles on newspaperarchives.com also. The only SC papers they have from that time period are the Aiken Standard and the Florence Morning News. I haven't been able to copy them because something is wrong with my Adobe reader. Newspapers from the Aiken Standard are on there from 1924 through 2008 and from the Florence Morning News from 1929 to 1977. That's the only problem with newspaperarchives.com. They don't have all the papers from any given state and they only have certain years. Most of them are from the 1800s to mid 1900s. I wish they had more on there. It's a good service but sometimes very difficult to find what you need on there.

[justthinkin]

myfairlight, kudos to you for posting these. According to elliottness, the Sumter Item is on microfilm so maybe we can get some of the earliest articles from there that were written up on the case.

[mayfairlight]

The articles were published in several newspapers around the area, I only saved these because they were easiest to copy. The Florence paper published most of these items too.

I agree Mysterylover, a dentist in the seventies was most certainly wondering where his half-finished patient went, they do make a big deal of his dental work in the articles, they believed that was the clue to their identities. It wasn't just a filling here and there, but a whole dental restauration: lots of money, big job, dentist must have wondered where did his half-finished mouth go? Is there a dentists website/ forum?

Here are some more...
This I found interesting
"Deputies said the mother and stepfather had disagreed on whether the girl is their daughter. Family friends also disagreed on the identification..."
What made the police agree it wasn't the girl in question? I searched for missing Brunswick girls, found none...
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5316/22wedaug181976florenceuu3.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22wedaug181976florenceuu3.jpg)

Their funeral. It looks nicer than I thought it was, flowers... several people there... (I thought a wooden coffin, one or two police, nothing else... was certainly important for the locals in the day)I wonder if the person who did this to them was there too? Certainly enough people to hide amongst. Who was there and took pictures? The guy's dental work mentioned again...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7118/22monaug1577asf7.th.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22monaug1577asf7.jpg)

Original sketches, published in several local papers
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9603/22sataug1476florenceht5.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22sataug1476florenceht5.jpg)




edit: this one is the earliest I could find, from Aug 10
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2431/22tuesaug1076zzlr1.th.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22tuesaug1076zzlr1.jpg)

[runr]

I have some friends who were in radio in Sumter at the time. I will ask them what they might know.

[justthinkin]

If those are the earliest sketches, then something is definitely amiss on this case. That is not the shoulder length hair Jock Doe was reported as having, and as evidenced by a crime scene photo.

Whoever is in contact or has been in contact with Verna Moore, would you please call her, and ask why the sketch doesn't match the crime scene photo?

[WildHeart]

Try looking up records for "The State", that's a Columbia, SC newspaper.

[justthinkin]

I'm also curious about a photo that was on phenolred's myspace page for the mystery couple.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=292782949&albumID=516951&imageID=1808081

or tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/bq89yt

It is my feeling that this photo is the most representative of Jane Doe.

Notice the facial differences, the odd ear, and in particular the forehead height as compared with other photos. You tell me, is this the same person as the morgue photo of Jane with her mouth open? What do you think?

[Mysterylover]

If those are the earliest sketches, then something is definitely amiss on this case. That is not the shoulder length hair Jock Doe was reported as having, and as evidenced by a crime scene photo.

Whoever is in contact or has been in contact with Verna Moore, would you please call her, and ask why the sketch doesn't match the crime scene photo?

justthinkin, You are correct, details and photo's definitely amiss in this case...why?..:waitasec:

[Mysterylover]

The articles were published in several newspapers around the area, I only saved these because they were easiest to copy. The Florence paper published most of these items too.

I agree Mystery-lover, a dentist in the seventies was most certainly wondering where his half-finished patient went, they do make a big deal of his dental work in the articles, they believed that was the clue to their identities. It wasn't just a filling here and there, but a whole dental restoration: lots of money, big job, dentist must have wondered where did his half-finished mouth go? Is there a dentists website/ forum?

Here are some more...

This I found interesting
"Deputies said the mother and stepfather had disagreed on whether the girl is their daughter. Family friends also disagreed on the identification..."
What made the police agree it wasn't the girl in question? I searched for missing Brunswick girls, found none...

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5316/22wedaug181976florenceuu3.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22wedaug181976florenceuu3.jpg)

Their funeral. It looks nicer than I thought it was, flowers... several people there... (I thought a wooden coffin, one or two police, nothing else... was certainly important for the locals in the day)I wonder if the person who did this to them was there too? Certainly enough people to hide amongst. Who was there and took pictures? The guy's dental work mentioned again...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7118/22monaug1577asf7.th.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22monaug1577asf7.jpg)

Original sketches, published in several local papers
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9603/22sataug1476florenceht5.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22sataug1476florenceht5.jpg)

edit: this one is the earliest I could find, from Aug 10
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2431/22tuesaug1076zzlr1.th.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22tuesaug1076zzlr1.jpg)

Mayfairlight...IN 1976 most average people did Not have the money for such fine mouth/teeth restoration, costing many thousands of dollars...
Notice in these sketches, Jock has short hair??
The news article says the man was shot in the head and the female was shot in the chest??

When they say chest, does it mean they were shot from the FRONT in the chest? Otherwise seems the LE/coroner would say they were shot 'twice' in the back??
-----------
How would a Mother and Stepfather NOT be able to identify their own teenage daughter??..What was going on here? How strange can this case get?
Quote:
"Deputies said the mother and stepfather had disagreed on whether the girl is their daughter. Family friends also disagreed on the identification..."[/I]

What made the police agree it wasn't the girl in question? I searched for missing Brunswick girls, found none...
-----------------------------------------------------
These DNA test are LONG overdue...:boohoo:

Why would a young man in his 20's need all the mouth reconstruction?
Would he have been hit in the mouth playing a sport, car wreck or what??

[Mysterylover]

I'm also curious about a photo that was on phenolred's myspace page for the mystery couple.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=292782949&albumID=516951&imageID=1808081

or tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/bq89yt

It is my feeling that this photo is the most representative of Jane Doe.

Notice the facial differences, the odd ear, and in particular the forehead height as compared with other photos.
You tell me, is this the same person as the morgue photo of Jane with her mouth open?
What do you think?...

Justthinkin..The large picture is very clear...I agree, something isn't right..every picture of Jane Doe looks different.
Comparing these pictures with the others, these seem to be two DIFFERENT females of different age, face shape, hair color and features...imo..:confused:
Can anyone line all these pictures of our Jane Doe, side by side so we can compare details and features?

Does anyone remember this post from a while back? Are these pictures what this person was "hinting' about in their posts?
Quote:
"I know who they are, and 1976 is not the year they died."

[justthinkin]

Justthinkin..The large picture is very clear...I agree, something isn't right..
Comparing these pictures with the others, these aren't the same person, but two DIFFERENT females of different age, and features...imo..:confused:
Can anyone line all these pictures of Jane Doe up, side by side so we can compare details and features?

Does anyone remember this post from a while back? Are these pictures what this person was "hinting' about in their posts?
Quote:
"I know who they are, and 1976 is not the year they died."

Mystery, I can't line up the photos. I'm not that good on a computer. One thing I did though was to take the photo of Jane Doe with the superimposed eyes open, drag her over to Paint...this is a joke cause I'm using Paint (very primitive edition)from a Windows 98 that someone converted onto my Windows Vista...corrected her eye shape, made her hair look something like it did in the most recent photo link I provided, and got that one to agree, meaning it's the same person. I have yet to work on the open mouth morgue photo. That should be interesting. I'll let ya know how it goes.

[Mysterylover]

The articles were published in several newspapers around the area, I only saved these because they were easiest to copy. The Florence paper published most of these items too.

I agree Mysterylover, a dentist in the seventies was most certainly wondering where his half-finished patient went, they do make a big deal of his dental work in the articles, they believed that was the clue to their identities. It wasn't just a filling here and there, but a whole dental restauration: lots of money, big job, dentist must have wondered where did his half-finished mouth go? Is there a dentists website/ forum?

Here are some more...
This I found interesting
"Deputies said the mother and stepfather had disagreed on whether the girl is their daughter. Family friends also disagreed on the identification..."
What made the police agree it wasn't the girl in question? I searched for missing Brunswick girls, found none...
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5316/22wedaug181976florenceuu3.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22wedaug181976florenceuu3.jpg)

Their funeral. It looks nicer than I thought it was, flowers... several people there... (I thought a wooden coffin, one or two police, nothing else... was certainly important for the locals in the day)I wonder if the person who did this to them was there too? Certainly enough people to hide amongst. Who was there and took pictures? The guy's dental work mentioned again...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7118/22monaug1577asf7.th.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22monaug1577asf7.jpg)

Original sketches, published in several local papers
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9603/22sataug1476florenceht5.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22sataug1476florenceht5.jpg)




edit: this one is the earliest I could find, from Aug 10
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2431/22tuesaug1076zzlr1.th.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22tuesaug1076zzlr1.jpg)

Mayfairlight...Very interesting articles. I learned more details about the case from reading them.

I found the article about the girls ID very interesting, especially about the Unidentified Varnville, S.C. man...Varnville is not far off I-95, south of Sumter.

Why was the Varnville man not identified?
It seems he knew of the couple. He was concerned enough to drive to Brunswick with LE to have the girl identified...

I suggest these people have DNA test on Jane Doe since they couldn't decide from the sketches/ pictures whether she was or wasn't their daughter.
Were they ever informed they could see he body after the autopsy was done at the Medical University at Charleston?

Isn't it a big coincidence she was murdered off road 341 that leads to Brunswick, Ga...:confused:

Quote:
Investigators who traveled to Georgia in hopes of obtaining a final identification of one of two bodies found near here a week ago said Tuesday the effort proved fruitless.

Sheriff I. Byrd Parnell said the trip to Brunswick, Ga. by investigators and an Unidentified Varnville, S.C. Man, who said he knew of the slaying victims,
had not produced a postive identification of the body through autopsy sketches and descriptions.

He said the sketches and descriptions were shown to the Mother and stepfather of a missing girl. "There's no identification in Brunnswick, as far as I know. There's nobody that can postively identify her and give us a name or anything" the sheriff said.

Deputies said the Mother and stepfather had disagreed on whether the girl is their daughter. Family friends also disagreed on the identification they said..

[WildHeart]

Mayfairlight...Very interesting articles. I learned more details about the case from reading them.

I found the article about the girls ID very interesting, especially about the Unidentified Varnville, S.C. man...Varnville is not far off I-95, south of Sumter.

Why was the Varnville man not identified?
It seems he knew of the couple. He was concerned enough to drive to Brunswick with LE to have the girl identified...

I suggest these people have DNA test on Jane Doe since they couldn't decide from the sketches/ pictures whether she was or wasn't their daughter.
Were they ever informed they could see he body after the autopsy was done at the Medical University at Charleston?

Isn't it a big coincidence she was murdered off road 341 that leads to Brunswick, Ga...:confused:

Quote:
Investigators who traveled to Georgia in hopes of obtaining a final identification of one of two bodies found near here a week ago said Tuesday the effort proved fruitless.

Sheriff I. Byrd Parnell said the trip to Brunswick, Ga. by investigators and an Unidentified Varnville, S.C. Man, who said he knew of the slaying victims,
had not produced a postive identification of the body through autopsy sketches and descriptions.

He said the sketches and descriptions were shown to the Mother and stepfather of a missing girl. "There's no identification in Brunnswick, as far as I know. There's nobody that can postively identify her and give us a name or anything" the sheriff said.

Deputies said the Mother and stepfather had disagreed on whether the girl is their daughter. Family friends also disagreed on the identification they said..

There bodies were near a State road. Looking at the map, it's labeled as S43-62, meaning State Road County Number 43 (Sumter)-Road 62. If someone wanted to go to Brunswick from the Santee area, then and now, the route to take would be I-95, it's the most direct and the fastest and if these two were indeed not Americans, or familiar with the area, I seriously doubt they would have veered off major highways or taken such a bassackwards way to Brunswick. And looking at the map I can't even figure out how to get there from where they were found. In short, I don't get the obsession with Brunswick to begin with. Using the same logic I could say they were found near I-95 and wow, I-95 leads to NY and I bet they are somehow connected to the Mafia because they have mafia members in NY. Or conversely, that I-95 leads to Miami and I bet they were involved in some drug cartel. It could be either, neither, or both. :innocent: Or I-95 leads to Hilton Head, maybe they liked to play tennis or golf. :banghead: Great theories but there is no proof to any of it. What we do know is that the murder weapon was found, we know who that person is. Start there. Start with who he knew, who that gun passed through the hands of and when, and that's the answer to at least solving the "who" killed them. For the who this couple was, there is always the possibility that the murderer didn't even know.

Re the discrepancies in the morgue photos, didn't an amateur here doctor those to show what they would have looked like with different eye colors, hair styles, etc?

[JaneInOz]

Justthinkin..The large picture is very clear...I agree, something isn't right..every picture of Jane Doe looks different.
Comparing these pictures with the others, these seem to be two DIFFERENT females of different age, face shape, hair color and features...imo..:confused:
Can anyone line all these pictures of our Jane Doe, side by side so we can compare details and features?

Does anyone remember this post from a while back? Are these pictures what this person was "hinting' about in their posts?
Quote:
"I know who they are, and 1976 is not the year they died."

I can do that I will line them all up but please give me a little time I have to do some things but I will do this today for you

and No I do not remember that Post :eek:

[rhyno1974]

Justthinkin..The large picture is very clear...I agree, something isn't right..every picture of Jane Doe looks different.
Comparing these pictures with the others, these seem to be two DIFFERENT females of different age, face shape, hair color and features...imo..:confused:
Can anyone line all these pictures of our Jane Doe, side by side so we can compare details and features?

Does anyone remember this post from a while back? Are these pictures what this person was "hinting' about in their posts?
Quote:
"I know who they are, and 1976 is not the year they died."


I think the post you are refering to is post # 39 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75977

[JaneInOz]

I think the post you are refering to is post # 39 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75977

Im still doing the photos side by side ive just gathered them all and now will start putting it all together

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=50572

Sumter County Coroner Verna Moore remembers when they were first found: off I-95 on August 9, 1976. A truck driver discovered the man, who is said to be in his mid-twenties, and the woman, believed to be 19 years old to her early twenties. They lay dead on a dirt road, shot execution style in the head and neck.

that puts paid to the person who said that they were shot in the chest (one of them)

The coroner states here head and neck

Although I thought one was in the back ?

But you can see the shot up through the neck on Both of them

This is the person who left the comment

http://www.wltx.com/life/community/persona.aspx?U=9eefa5cf486b46c1b0def234d2ac14ac&plckUserId=9eefa5cf486b46c1b0def234d2ac14ac

HOW ODD !

Can someone send that person a email or something ?

[JaneInOz]

I haven't done Jocks Yet but will still do it

Also these are ALL the photos and or sketches I have come across of Jane Doe
I think the original newspaper sketch does look like Jane Doe when she is lying on the morgue table
with her eyes closed and hair out
The weird bit at the top of her head is like someone overlayed her

ITs hard to see on these but she has a mole under her left eye as well as the two near her lip

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=6047

[JaneInOz]

And here is Jock doe

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=6048

[justthinkin]

The girl was shot in the back as evidenced by the mess her chest area was in the crime scene photo. I believe the guy was shot first in the chest, at which point the girl tried to run, and was shot in the back. Both were still breathing or to just make sure they weren't, they were finished off with neck shots. The male naturally would have been disabled first because the killer would have had no fear of the girl. He knew she wasn't going anywhere anyway since he had the gun.

Sumter County Coroner Verna Moore remembers when they were first found: off I-95 on August 9, 1976. A truck driver discovered the man, who is said to be in his mid-twenties, and the woman, believed to be 19 years old to her early twenties. They lay dead on a dirt road, shot execution style in the head and neck.

Whatcha wanna bet Lonnie Henry was the truck driver that made the discovery?

[justthinkin]

I'm also curious about a photo that was on phenolred's myspace page for the mystery couple.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=292782949&albumID=516951&imageID=1808081

or tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/bq89yt

It is my feeling that this photo is the most representative of Jane Doe.

Notice the facial differences, the odd ear, and in particular the forehead height as compared with other photos. You tell me, is this the same person as the morgue photo of Jane with her mouth open? What do you think?

Please disregard the above post of mine that I've referenced here. I no longer believe that photo is the most representative of our Jane Doe.

[Mysterylover]

I think the post you are refering to is post # 39 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?

t=75977

rhyno1974, Yes, that's it. Thanks for finding it.
Notice the posters name!!
I took shorthand in school and in shorthand it seems to say "i seen it 69"...coincidence or clue?
Quote:
If you scroll down, you'll notice that someone named iceni69 left two comments and one of them is "I know who they are and who killed them and it didn't happen in 1976."

[JaneInOz]

rhyno1974, Yes, that's it. Thanks for finding it.
Notice the posters name!!
I took shorthand in school and in shorthand it seems to say "i seen it 69"...coincidence or not?
Quote:
If you scroll down, you'll notice that someone named iceni69 left two comments and one of them is "I know who they are and who killed them and it didn't happen in 1976."

OH MY GOD

GREAT PICK UP ML "i seen it 69" it didn't even twig

But could it be ?

Maybe some sleuthing for the 7 years prior to the *reported* 76 shootings ?

Did you see my side by sides ML

[Mysterylover]

The girl was shot in the back as evidenced by the mess her chest area was in the crime scene photo. I believe the guy was shot first in the chest, at which point the girl tried to run, and was shot in the back. Both were still breathing or to just make sure they weren't, they were finished off with neck shots. The male naturally would have been disabled first because the killer would have had no fear of the girl. He knew she wasn't going anywhere anyway since he had the gun.



Whatcha wanna bet Lonnie Henry was the truck driver that made the discovery?

Justthinkin...BINGO!..:sheesh:..I would bet you're right.

justhinkin I'll go a little farther with your thoughts:
part of the big cover-up was because the same truck driver was caught 4 months later with the murder weapon under his truck seat....making LE look REAL BAD!.:bang:.

so a deal is made that L.H. keep his mouth shut about being the one who found the couple at 6:20 Monday morning and Le would let L.H. walk away from the Felony charge....

also, going along with his weak alibi that a 2 hour drive from the hospital that Sunday night, after visiting hours, was way too far for him to make and still get there around midnight to 1:00 am....jmo

[Mysterylover]

OH MY GOD

GREAT PICK UP ML "i seen it 69" it didn't even twig

But could it be ?

Maybe some sleuthing for the 7 years prior to the *reported* 76 shootings ?

Did you see my side by sides ML

Hello friend, JaneInOz,
Yes, good work..I agree!
I appreciate you taking the time to put the pictures side by side..
The first thing I noticed was the difference in the shape of the faces in each picture!
The shape of the face is very important when identifying anyone..from a sketch or picture!


I'm not surprised the Mother and stepfather in Brunswick had diffeculity making a postive ID of Jane Doe..

Let's keep digging..:smiliescale: for more pieces of the puzzle.

[rhyno1974]

I did a google search of "iceni69" and it doesn't get a whole lot of hits. It is a name of a catamaran ferry and it looks like the company is out of NZ. Haven't had time to read much about it but here is the link

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index.php?page=iceni---69

Also someone with that username is/was a member of Ebay from the UK.

[Mysterylover]

I did a google search of "iceni69" and it doesn't get a whole lot of hits.
It is a name of a catamaran ferry and it looks like the company is out of NZ.

Haven't had time to read much about it but here is the link

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index.php?page=iceni---69

Also someone with that username is/was a member of Ebay from the UK....

rhyno1974: The name/handle was associated to a Catamaran. Hmmmm!

Isn't it a big coincidence that we were talking about the couple possibly having a sailing boat anchored somewhere just this week..and you track the persons handle, that gave the clue, to the type of a sailing boat...
QUOTE:

iceni69 wrote:
I know who they are and who killed them and it didn't happen in 1976.

[justthinkin]

Good work everyone!:blowkiss:

[Mysterylover]

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/uploads/images/iceni/Iceni694.jpg

[Mysterylover]

I think the post you are refering to is post # 39 here
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?

t=75977
Correct me if I'm wrong!

I noticed "iceni69's" first comment about knowing about the murders was on WlTX.com comment and blog site from Columbia S.C on 6-12-07..

With this coming from the WITX area, leads me to suspect this person does know something about the 2 murders.

[Mysterylover]

I'm also curious about a photo that was on phenolred's myspace page for the mystery couple.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=292782949&albumID=516951&imageID=1808081

or tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/bq89yt

It is my feeling that this photo is the most representative of Jane Doe.

Notice the facial differences, the odd ear, and in particular the forehead height as compared with other photos. You tell me, is this the same person as the morgue photo of Jane with her mouth open?
What do you think?..

justthinkin: After looking at several class rooms of students today, I am convinced the young Jane Doe in these pictures looks to be between 14 & 16 years old....VERY YOUNG ..I can't see how the coroner said she was 19, I think she may have been younger.....definitely a teenager from looking at her in this picture....imo:detective:

I do agree, the other pictures of Jane Doe DO look older, like 19 or early twenties...so I feel we should look for a female missing in her teens and twenties...

[justthinkin]

justthinkin: After looking at several class rooms of students today, I am convinced the young Jane Doe in these pictures looks to be between 14 & 16 years old..:detective:

ITA. It's something I'd thought, just hadn't said. Wouldn't that have automatically brought in the FBI?

[youshouldveknown]

Why would a young man in his 20's need all the mouth reconstruction?


Poor dentition could also be hereditary. It's not always about how often you brush and floss. It could have to do with hypocalcemia and lacking the nutrients to grow strong teeth. Remember that your bones are the LAST place calcium goes in your body. It's used intracellularly, intramuscularly, in the heart and brain.. anything leftover goes to bones and teeth.

Also, I've noticed that people who have had poor teeth during childhood and the developmental years and have had them fixed (braces and such) are very particular about their teeth. They usually take very good care of them and spend a lot of money to keep them the way they are. That's just a recent observation I've made.

[Cambria]

When I posted links to those 2 old articles from The Item on the Mystery Couple thread (I guess I should have posted them here), there was another article I had in my files about the Mystery Couple and Peggy Cuttino. I didn't know if that would be of interest so I didn't post it with them. Since someone posted the Crime Library story on Peggy Cuttino, here is the other article from The Item that discusses both.

http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040217/NEWS01/102170051

It's a really interesting article.

[Mysterylover]

When I posted links to those 2 old articles from The Item on the Mystery Couple thread (I guess I should have posted them here), there was another article I had in my files about the Mystery Couple and Peggy Cuttino. I didn't know if that would be of interest so I didn't post it with them.
Since someone posted the Crime Library story on Peggy Cuttino, here is the other article from The Item that discusses both.

http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040217/NEWS01/102170051

It's a really interesting article.

Cambria, Yes, another good article.
I found the following statement in the article quite interesting and eye opening.
QUOTE:
The Cuttino case is fascinating, but it's also a tragic story, Bardsley said.

"What really surprises me is, it seemed like there was something amiss in Sumter justice at that time," she said.

"It seemed that law enforcement was so anxious to put the case to bed, that they ignored all the major facts of the case.

The fact that the person they wanted to pin this on had an airtight alibi 200 miles away in Georgia didn't seem to matter.

"I don't think Junior Pierce is any model of humanity," she added, "but they wasted their time with him."

As for Gaskins, who in 1978, claimed under truth serum that he killed Cuttino, Bardsley doesn't buy his confession either. She believes he was trying to grandstand.

The Cuttino case has the mark of a serial killer, she said, but not Gaskins.

"It is the signature of the crime. The display of the girl points to a different killer than Gaskins," she said. "He never wanted his victims found.
He hid them. He wasn't into displaying victims at all."

The story is an example of "a miscarriage of justice that everybody in Sumter knew about," Bardsley said.

"It's an injustice to this Pierce guy.

Even worse, it takes the heat off of whoever did it. I guarantee you, this person did it again, and again.
Maybe not in South Carolina, but somewhere else," she said. "Mrs. Lenoir is to be congratulated for her bravery and diligence." ..............

[Cambria]

Cambria, Yes, another good article.
I found the following statement in the article quite interesting and eye opening.
QUOTE:
The Cuttino case is fascinating, but it's also a tragic story, Bardsley said.

"What really surprises me is, it seemed like there was something amiss in Sumter justice at that time," she said.

"It seemed that law enforcement was so anxious to put the case to bed, that they ignored all the major facts of the case.

The fact that the person they wanted to pin this on had an airtight alibi 200 miles away in Georgia didn't seem to matter.

"I don't think Junior Pierce is any model of humanity," she added, "but they wasted their time with him."

As for Gaskins, who in 1978, claimed under truth serum that he killed Cuttino, Bardsley doesn't buy his confession either. She believes he was trying to grandstand.

The Cuttino case has the mark of a serial killer, she said, but not Gaskins.

"It is the signature of the crime. The display of the girl points to a different killer than Gaskins," she said. "He never wanted his victims found.
He hid them. He wasn't into displaying victims at all."

The story is an example of "a miscarriage of justice that everybody in Sumter knew about," Bardsley said.

"It's an injustice to this Pierce guy.

Even worse, it takes the heat off of whoever did it. I guarantee you, this person did it again, and again.
Maybe not in South Carolina, but somewhere else," she said. "Mrs. Lenoir is to be congratulated for her bravery and diligence." ..............

Yes, I thought Marilyn Bardsley's comments were interesting. I definitely think in their haste to solve this, they got the wrong guy. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Gaskins though. I know just because he was there doesn't mean he did it. I haven't read that Crime Library story on Peggy Cuttino for a long time. I'll have to re-read it and see what they say about Gaskins again.

[Roselvr]

I'm also curious about a photo that was on phenolred's myspace page for the mystery couple.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=292782949&albumID=516951&imageID=1808081

or tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/bq89yt

It is my feeling that this photo is the most representative of Jane Doe.

Notice the facial differences, the odd ear, and in particular the forehead height as compared with other photos. You tell me, is this the same person as the morgue photo of Jane with her mouth open? What do you think?

It is this picture of Jane that made me wonder about the Amish or Pennsylvania Dutch.

==========================================

I'm gonna add this here due to lack of time.
I found these 2 images, thought I left open where I found this one but must have closed it. I did save it..
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5794/southcarolinacouple.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=southcarolinacouple.jpg)

Then there is this version which I wish I could find larger

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5584/12johnjanedoecrimes.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12johnjanedoecrimes.jpg)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/12johnjanedoecrimes.jpg/1/w200.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img90/12johnjanedoecrimes.jpg/1/)

[Mysterylover]

Guys, Look closely at the dirt road in the pictures.

It definitely looks like a one-lane, narrow sandy dirt road with grass growing in the center.

This road was certainly NOT traveled often, by many cars, from the looks of the grass and the dirt....

This young couple would NOT have been on this deserted road at night...plus their feet/shoes was way too clean.

Who ever 'placed' these kids beside this road, knew the area and the dirt road in my opinion..:camera:

[mayfairlight]

I don't think I posted this before...
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/mollyj100/__aa.jpg?t=1240919696


edit: it was published January 1977

[Mysterylover]

Thanks Mayfairlight for the 1977 newspaper article...very interesting.

I read months back, truck driver, Henry had told LE his brother 'gave' him the pistol for Christmas several years before the murders....

Hmmm! my question is: was the stolen pistol really a gift?

I found the following very enlightening...
The article says:
Sheriff Parnell says the (.357) gun has been traced to a 1974 theft of several weapons in Durham, North Carolina...

My question is:
Was the 1974 gun theft in Durham, NC. ever solved?

WAS stealing guns in the home break-in and the murder and robbery of the couple in S.C. all done by the same people????
there was definitely a stolen Smoking Gun!

It's my good common sense opinion H. and his brother should have been throughly investigated in connection to both cases...
Where there's Smoke there's Fire!

[mayfairlight]

I also think it established the weapon, because another one has been mention as well.

I looked for that weapons theft and I'm sure I saved an article from that, I only found one. (In fact I've saved lots of articles, I'll just need the time to post them here.)
There was apparantly a similar crime in a nearby city that year, with a young couple being attacked, it just caught my eye but might be irrelevant.

I agree Mysterylover, why weren't they? There is nothing else about this guy or the finding of the weapon apart from this clipping. Something weird was going on:waitasec:

[justthinkin]

Mayfairlight, the article only establishes that the gun was used in the murders if the story line is believable. Personally, I don't think it is. Behind letting a felon walk, stands a guy with something to gain. There's nothing about that article that eliminates the possibility of an additional weapon which would indicate two shooters. The neck shots had to be made with a smaller caliber weapon. Then again, those neck shots may be bogus. Although the neck shot photos are framed, they look very much like drawings and not actual photos.

These murder victims have too many bullet holes, shot in the back, shot in the chest, shot in the head, shot in the neck. Talk about overkill, and not a peep out of the county to correct any of it.

I think back to a case over in Georgia, a few years after this case, where the sheriff was looking the other way as drugs were smuggled through his county. He even had someone from Georgia State Police involved in it. They were both getting kick-backs.

Could the same thing have happened in SC? Sure. It happens in a lot of places, drug smuggling, money laundering, etc.

I've heard it said more than once, if some guys weren't cops, they'd be on the wrong side of the law. Every dept. has its bad apples.

[Reannan]

I am obsessed with this case. I live in South Carolina less than a 2 hour drive to the crime scene. I have never been there, but I plan on getting there over the summer. I recall that someone on here has spoken with the coroner at the time, who has since retired, is that correct? I believe this case can be solved. I believe that this case may have people still living who would be harmed by the light of day.....i.e. were somehow involved with the murders, or the cover up, or even the simple lack of good investigation. Doesn't matter. The truth needs to be told. The truth WILL be told. WE CAN SOLVE THIS CASE!!! I firmly believe that. If anyone has any ideas on what I should do, PM me.... I am relatively local, and VERY willing to help.

[mayfairlight]

Mayfairlight, the article only establishes that the gun was used in the murders if the story line is believable. Personally, I don't think it is. Behind letting a felon walk, stands a guy with something to gain. There's nothing about that article that eliminates the possibility of an additional weapon which would indicate two shooters. The neck shots had to be made with a smaller caliber weapon. Then again, those neck shots may be bogus. Although the neck shot photos are framed, they look very much like drawings and not actual photos.

These murder victims have too many bullet holes, shot in the back, shot in the chest, shot in the head, shot in the neck. Talk about overkill, and not a peep out of the county to correct any of it.

I think back to a case over in Georgia, a few years after this case, where the sheriff was looking the other way as drugs were smuggled through his county. He even had someone from Georgia State Police involved in it. They were both getting kick-backs.

Could the same thing have happened in SC? Sure. It happens in a lot of places, drug smuggling, money laundering, etc.

I've heard it said more than once, if some guys weren't cops, they'd be on the wrong side of the law. Every dept. has its bad apples.

I think it establishes what the murder weapon was :)
But that's just my opinion.
What do you mean too many bullet holes?:eek:
I so hope these kids will be identified.
The shooter/ killer may be dead, but who would he have spoken to?
Just to know why he/ she killed them.
It's so sad...

[elliottness]

http://www.theitem.com/article/20090802/ITNEWS01/708029980/-1/ITNEWS

This article was in "The Item" newspaper 8/2/09 and talks about the missing couple.

[websurfer]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/leslie_cynthia.html

if you look closely she also has those moles on her face near her mouth...
problem is they are a bit lower but look similar...
I also did not check stats on her to compare just wanted to piost now for similarities...
anybody have a pic of him too that is real not sketch?

I would like to see it also...

[justthinkin]

I think it establishes what the murder weapon was :)
But that's just my opinion.
What do you mean too many bullet holes?:eek:
I so hope these kids will be identified.
The shooter/ killer may be dead, but who would he have spoken to?
Just to know why he/ she killed them.
It's so sad...


I just noticed this post, and although the poster has been banned, I thought I'd go ahead and respond to her post anyway.

We can't establish a murder weapon for this case since both a .38 and a .357 have been described as the murder weapon, with no corrections by anyone in LE in Sumter County. The gun started out as a .38 and simply morfed into a .357 in articles in "The Item."

The reason I say too many bullet holes, is that the bullet holes have moved around on the victim's bodies. "The Item" has published various articles with different shot placements, so there's really no telling what the truth is.

[justthinkin]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/leslie_cynthia.html

if you look closely she also has those moles on her face near her mouth...
problem is they are a bit lower but look similar...
I also did not check stats on her to compare just wanted to piost now for similarities...
anybody have a pic of him too that is real not sketch?

I would like to see it also...

Websurfer, there's a thread on this couple labeled crime photos or something close to that.

As for Cynthia Leslie's photo, I think those are just spots on that first photo. I see nothing in the second photo that looks like moles, and in the description of her, a mole near her armpit is mentioned, and no others. I feel sure if she had moles on her face those would've been listed.

[hyldo]

We can't establish a murder weapon for this case since both a .38 and a .357 have been described as the murder weapon, with no corrections by anyone in LE in Sumter County. The gun started out as a .38 and simply morfed into a .357 in articles in "The Item."

Actually, saying the gun was both a .357 and .38 is not inconsistent. A .357 handgun can also fire .38 caliber rounds.