Doi Proceeds - What Is The Truth?

[Barbara]

We have all been speculating and commenting for years regarding the book, the "foundation", the proceeds etc.

Is there a legal knowledgeable person out there that knows how to find out what exactly the proceeds were? Is it public record? Do the Ramseys legally have to state the proceeds to the public because of their claims?

I would be very interested to know exactly what the proceeds were for the sales of the book, especially since the Ramseys claim to still be giving money from the "foundation". You know, the one that doesn't exist anymore.

Since the book is still for sale, where do those proceeds go now? Can they still legally claim the charity on the book THAT IS STILL BEING SOLD?????

Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

Edited to add:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0451409736/ref=sib_rdr_bc/104-5946475-5280745?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00B#reader-page

This is the page you continue to see on Amazon.com when you want to order this book. It continues to state that the proceeds go to the Foundation. Is this legal?

[Barbara]

What happened to those PROCEEDS?????????? This is an old article, but a seemingly forgotten little tidbit, which I have taken the liberty of enlarging and putting in bold type.




The BoulderNews Ramsey Archive
Articles from the Daily Camera


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Investors buy Ramseys' 15th Street home
By MATT SEBASTIAN, Camera Staff Writer
Friday, February 6, 1998

A group of investors bought the former Boulder home of John and Patsy Ramsey on Thursday and pledged to resell it at a later date, donating profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Childrens Foundation.

In a statement released Thursday morning, local attorney Michael Bynum said the house sold for $650,000 to an investor group named after the Ramsey homes address, 755 15th St., L.L.C.

The group, according to Bynums statement, is "composed of individuals assisting the Ramsey family."

Bynum, who in the mid-70s served as a Boulder County deputy district attorney, declined to elaborate on his brief press release. A friend of the Ramseys, Bynum took "Primetime Live" co-host Diane Sawyer on a tour of the house last summer.

Colorado Secretary of State records show 755 15th St. was incorporated Jan. 21 and lists Boulder resident Anne Bork as its registered agent. When asked Thursday about the purchase of the Ramsey home, Bork said, "I dont have any comment on that."

Bynums statement says the group will hold the home "for an as yet undetermined period of time" before offering it for resale. Any profits will go to the JonBenet Ramsey Childrens Foundation, a group set up by the slain 6-year-old's parents.
JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered Dec. 26, 1996, in the basement of the 15th Street home. Over the past year, the children's foundation has purchased several advertisements in the Daily Camera touting a $100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of JonBenet's killer.
John and Patsy Ramsey, along with their 11-year-old son Burke, haven't lived in the home since JonBenet was found murdered. In July, the couple purchased a home reportedly worth $750,000 in an Atlanta suburb.

The Ramseys bought their 6,800-square-foot Boulder home in 1991 for $500,000. The four-bedroom, 61/2-bathroom Tudor-style home has been renovated since then. Prior to JonBenet's death, the family reportedly turned down a $2 million offer for their house.

According to Bynum's statement, the Ramsey family already had sold the home to a "relocation service" retained by John Ramsey's employer. Whether the employer in question is Access Graphics - the company Ramsey founded - or its former corporate owner, Lockheed Martin, is unknown.

The broker who handled Thursday's sale to the investor group, Joel Ripmaster of Colorado Landmark Realtors, said the relocation service, which he wouldn't name, hired him "late last year" to list the property.

Ripmaster said he couldn't comment on how much the relocation service paid the Ramseys for the house, or when it was originally sold.


So where's the money????????

[Nehemiah]

Maybe L. Wood knows?

IMO

[Tricia]

Barbara those are all excellent questions.

The Ramseys are now saying the foundation is private.

I have uploaded a scanned news article from the Gaylord Times that talks about it.

Oh they also talk about a certain Larry King Live caller...LOL.

Feel free to transcribe it and bring it here. I would but I have to run.

Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4740

[Britt]

The Ramseys are now saying the foundation is private.
? Kinda like... a savings account? Hey, I have a private foundation, too, and make donations to myself on a regular basis.

[Barbara]

Barbara those are all excellent questions.

The Ramseys are now saying the foundation is private.

I have uploaded a scanned news article from the Gaylord Times that talks about it.

Oh they also talk about a certain Larry King Live caller...LOL.

Feel free to transcribe it and bring it here. I would but I have to run.

Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4740

I thought about transcribing the article, but stopped when I realized that for me, being able to read the article clearly as it was actually written in the newspaper had a much bigger impact than when it is retyped by someone.

It is an excellent article and I also have no idea what "private" means as it relates to a charity. What about the book proceeds? What does John mean that every penny in the funds are HIS OWN monies???? (ME ME ME). He sure does get insulted easily. NOT a good characteristic for an up and coming politician.

Again, EXCELLENT article. Good for you Tricia! Somebody on the forums who is willing to stick her neck out. :clap:

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE! Those Ramseys and their followers can be NUTS

[Barbara]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

? Kinda like... a savings account? Hey, I have a private foundation, too, and make donations to myself on a regular basis.

[Show Me]

Sooooo in other words, John can use the money from DOI paperback sales, declare it private and dispense it to further his political career.

Why didn't the Ramsey's include this info on the cover of their book? Isn't this called FRAUD?

[RiverRat]

"We set one up for Beth, we set one up for JonBenet, and every penny that goes into those foundations is my own money."

[Barbara]

"We set one up for Beth, we set one up for JonBenet, and every penny that goes into those foundations is my own money."


:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

Huh?

[Show Me]

"We set one up for Beth, we set one up for JonBenet, and every penny that goes into those foundations is my own money."

John didn't buy my book for me....I did. Is he admitting to stealing the donation my book purchase brought?

Notice how the 'greedy' lawyers took all the money from the first edition printing. Nothing left for the foundation....or the tax records would have shown it....right?

[tipper]

If the Ramseys filed a 990-PF then their foundation has always been private. The majority of foundations are private as opposed to public foundations which are supported by government grants and the like. Anyone can set up a private foundation and fund it from his or her own pocket or from monies sent in by individuals or other foundations. The donations made by the foundation are to serve the public good. I would suspect that any book income used to pay lawyers was taxed as income, while any that went into the foundation was tax-exempt.

[newtv]

I think the "Operative" word in this is "ANY" profits go to...

There is always a way to say there were no profits especially where a charitable organization is the taxation process used-some schools still use this as well and there is never a profit (private post graduate schools who charge a fortune for tuition), so the Ramseys can have used the funds for their own purposes if related to the murder-and that means paying legal fee's- then there is no profit to speak of and the money is taxed as if it were charitable-they can pay tgheselves from that- they can pay their lawyers from that-so I think thats the way it works- and if he is running for office you can be sure that part is well explained should the press ask the question-now if thee was a charitable organization I think a board is required- so you might want to ask who was on the board of Directors-and they can actually be sued if anything went on that is illegal-but i tend to think they paid out their costs and there was no profits/money to give away after the fact..and likely still isnt or the thousand dollars is part of some small amount left over or required..

[Tricia]

If the Ramseys filed a 990-PF then their foundation has always been private. The majority of foundations are private as opposed to public foundations which are supported by government grants and the like. Anyone can set up a private foundation and fund it from his or her own pocket or from monies sent in by individuals or other foundations. The donations made by the foundation are to serve the public good. I would suspect that any book income used to pay lawyers was taxed as income, while any that went into the foundation was tax-exempt.

Thanks Tipper for bringing this point up.

A couple of great researches wrote this up for me. It spells out the JBR Foundation.

A call to the IRS confirmed that the Foundation was closed in 2000. Yes they did file a 990-PF but it was later. In the begining it was a non-profit.
`````````````````````````````````````````
JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION

EIN: 84-1397683

Directors: John Ramsey
Patsy Ramsey

Officers: President - Patsy Ramsey
Vice President - John Ramsey
Treasurer - Gail Heinzman

Statement of Purpose: "To raise money for children's education and care" and to protect against "the victimization of children."

ACTIVITIES:

1997
Incorporated in April as non-profit corporation in Colorado w/IRS registration as 501(c) charitable tax-exempt organization

Media articles and Crime Stoppers ad disclose JBR Foundation offer of $100,000 reward for information regarding "well dressed male" approaching children at Christmastime, 1996; no such funds in Foundation account to back up offer

Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/19/98:
Contributions received: $12,533
Donor: John Ramsey
Charitable contributions made: $769
Recipient of charitable contribution: Unknown
Market value of trust assets (including
interest earned on bank account: $4,354


1998

Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/18/99:
Contributions received: $2,703
Donor: Unknown
Charitable contributions made: $0
Recipient of charitable contribution: None
Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
Market value of trust assets (including
interest earned on bank account: $5,506



1999

Per 990 PF dtd 08/25/00:
Contributions received: $3,865
Donor: Unknown
Charitable contributions made: $2,000
Recipient of charitable contribution: St. Johns Episcopal Church, Boulder
Purpose of charitable contribution: "Assistance to children's programs
and other unrestricted church use"
Market value of trust assets (including
interest earned on bank account: $6,415

2000

Foundation terminated per IRS

Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:
Contributions received: $1,405
Donor: Unknown
Charitable contributions made: $0
Recipient of charitable contribution: None
Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
Market value of trust assets (including
interest earned on bank account: $7,860

Notes:
Line 8a: Foundation reports to state of Colorado but CO "does not require any report"

Part IXA Summary of Direct Charitable Activities: "N/A"

Part IXB Summary of Program-Related Investments: "N/A"

Part XVI List any managers of the foundation who have contributed more than 2% of the total contributions received by the foundation before the close of any tax year (but only if they contributed more than $5,000): "NONE"

Part XV Grants and Contributions Paid During the Year: "NONE"

Part XVI-B Relationship of Activities to the Accomplishment of Exempt Purposes: "This section is blank because the foundation's revenue was either from gifts or from interest on its account. The foundation generated no income from activities."

Statement 1/Form 990-PF/Part 1 Line 1/Contributions, Gifts and Grants: "No single contributor gave $5,000 or more during the year."

[Barbara]

ACTIVITIES:

1997
Incorporated in April as non-profit corporation in Colorado w/IRS registration as 501(c) charitable tax-exempt organization

Media articles and Crime Stoppers ad disclose JBR Foundation offer of $100,000 reward for information regarding "well dressed male" approaching children at Christmastime, 1996; no such funds in Foundation account to back up offer

I guess they felt safe that the reward money would never be requested!

Even the NE was willing to back up their reward offer!

Even the NE had more class than the Ramseys

[tipper]

From John Walsh’s Tears of Rage:

"We remembered what we had learned during the search for Adam – that rewards are useful for getting the media’s attention, and keeping it. So the Center posted a reward. That way, if we had to go back to the press and ask for more coverage down the line, they wouldn’t say, "Who needs you? We’ve already got Staci’s mother puking and crying on camera. It’s old news." Instead they could report fresh news – that the reward has just been increased.

In most cases, no one actually collects the money. We didn’t even have it. It was just a tactic to keep the case in front of the public."

[tipper]

I edited the quote for clarity


A call to the IRS confirmed that the Foundation was closed in 2000. Yes they did file a 990-PF but it was later. In the begining it was a non-profit.
`````````````````````````````````````````
JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION

EIN: 84-1397683

Statement of Purpose: "To raise money for children's education and care" and to protect against "the victimization of children."

ACTIVITIES:

1997
Incorporated in April as non-profit corporation in Colorado w/IRS registration as 501(c) charitable tax-exempt organization

Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/19/98:

Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/18/99:

Per 990 PF dtd 08/25/00:

Foundation terminated per IRS

Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:


Not sure what you mean by "they did file a 990-PF but it was later." It looks like they filed one in 98, 99, 00, and 01. Also am not sure if you are saying Private foundations are inherently different from non-profit?

[Tricia]

Sorry Tipper.

They filed a non-profit in 1997. Then the filed the 990 pf until 2001. However according the I.R.S. the foundation, be it private or otherwise, was closed in 2000. Meaning it does not exist. Perhaps they meant 2001 when the last filing is listed.


This is from a press release I sent out. It appears the Ramseys are disingenuous when they tout the JBR foundation don't you think?

From the press release,


Take the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation, for instance.

John Ramsey claimed he would be looking for the killer of his daughter
JonBenet until the killer was found. Based on the following information, you be the judge of how sincere John Ramsey is in finding the "killer" of his daughter.

From John and Patsy Ramsey's book, Death of Innocence, hard cover version,
p 374 published in 2000:

"If you think you have any information that could help, please call, write,
or e-mail us...

We have had a web site and tip line that can be reached at 303-904-****.
Confidential information can be mailed to P. O. Box 724505, Atlanta, GA
31139. Our e-mail address is JonBenetinfo@aol.com."

The "tip line" John Ramsey set up to help find the "killer" of JonBenet
Ramsey was printed incorrectly in the hardcover of their book. The real
owner of the phone number printed in Death of Innocence reported the Ramsey
"tip line" was disconnected over three years ago. The email address is not
in operation. The email address JonBenetinfo@aol.com bounces back as
"unknown."

In the updated paperback version of Death of Innocence, which was released
in 2001, the paragraph was changed to the following:

If you think you have any information that could help, please call, write,
or e-mail us. Or if you know anyone who can make a device like the garrote
or the hand ligature (which had a loop on both ends) pictured on the
Jameson Web site * please speak up. Contact us by e-mail at
JonBenetTipLine@aol.com, call your local police or call the Boulder Police. Cont..

The email address, JonBenetTipline@aol.com bounces back as "unknown." There
is no updated or corrected tip line phone number, leaving the owner of the
incorrect number printed in the hardback version to field calls on a
regular basis explaining there is no "Tip Line" for JonBenet Ramsey. The
Boulder Police no longer have control of the case. It is now in Boulder D.A
Mary Keenan's hands.

The Ramsey website, www.ramseyfamily.com has been non-existent for several
years. A check of ownership at Network Solutions shows the owner of this
domain as Haddon, Morgan, and Forman, the Ramseys' former criminal
attorneys. The domain ownership expired April 19, 2004. To date, no one
has renewed the domain.


As of the date of this press release, the back cover of the paperback
version of Death of Innocence states: AUTHORS' PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE OF THIS BOOK WILL GO TO THE JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION."

A phone call placed to the I.R.S. confirmed that the JonBenet Ramsey
Foundation was closed in 2000. The same year the paperback version of Death of Innocence came out.

Forums for Justice would like to ask John Ramsey where the money received
from sales of Death of Innocence went, as it appears the money did not go
to the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation as touted on the cover of the book.

There is no tip line, no web site provided by the Ramsey family to help
find the killer of JonBenet Ramsey. There is no information anywhere on the
Internet about the $100,000 reward. Yet, John Ramsey has the time, the
money and the desire to put up a very professional website about HIMSELF
and his run for office.

The defunct JonBenet Ramsey Foundation accomplished very little if anything
at all, in spite of John Ramsey's claims to the contrary. He promoted an
organization called "SHOES" in Death of Innocence, an organization that has
yet to be formed despite the fact he has had over 4 years to get SHOES up
and running.

[Britt]

From John Walsh’s Tears of Rage:

"In most cases, no one actually collects the money. We didn’t even have it. It was just a tactic to keep the case in front of the public."
Looks like Walsh, in his book, was being honest and straightforward about his tactics. How does this compare to what the Ramseys said about their foundation?

[tipper]

Looks like Walsh, in his book, was being honest and straightforward about his tactics. How does this compare to what the Ramseys said about their foundation?
I doubt that at the time Walsh said "We're offering this reward but we don't have the money." The book was written may years later.

[Britt]

I doubt that at the time Walsh said "We're offering this reward but we don't have the money." The book was written may years later.
The point is: did he actually take money from donators and buyers of his book, representing that those proceeds were going to the reward/foundation?

To offer a nonexistent (or not yet existent) reward isn't at all the same thing as accepting money from people who thought they were giving to a charity which turns out to be nonexistent.

[Tricia]

The point is: did he actually take money from donators and buyers of his book, representing that those proceeds were going to the reward/foundation?

To offer a nonexistent (or not yet existent) reward isn't at all the same thing as accepting money from people who thought they were giving to a charity which turns out to be nonexistent.

That's the point Britt. You hit it right on my friend.

If John Ramsey had never said a word about the foundation in DOI then no one would have a right to say anything to him.

It's totally the family's business if they have a private foundation. No one should expect the Ramseys to offer up private information about a family foundation.

BUT...when John Ramsey made claims in DOI, claims that are still made on the back his paperback, that is a problem.

This goes directly to Ramsey's follow through and intentions. Qualities you need to hold a public office.

[tipper]

I would certainly be interested in the details of the Foundation and the details of its termination. There are many ways to close a non-profit foundation. All of them require meeting a variety of IRS regulations. Among other things the JBR Foundation could have simply been transferred to another foundation which would then inherit all the requirements the JBR Foundation was set up with. I would also be interested in knowing what account the check to the camp was written on. Did anybody (aside from the Ramseys) take a tax deduction for a donation to the Foundation? Was it denied by the IRS? The book purchase doesn’t count since that’s not deductible. These are some of the bits and pieces I’m curious about. So far, I’ve seen too few facts to draw any conclusions.

As far as the claim on the back of the book goes – I’d also like to hear what the Ramseys say about it. The book’s last printing was in January ’01. The last tax return for the foundation was filed on August ’01. The fact that "as of the date of [your] press release" the back of the book (printed in ’01) still says "Author’s proceeds from the sale…" doesn’t really mean anything. I don’t expect the Ramseys to run around with jars of white-out changing the cover. You seem to imply they should do something to fix this book cover. What do you suggest as a practical solution?

Had I been in the Ramsey’s position I probably would have had someone keep up a tip website for me. However, having seen what people are capable of saying on these forums, I would not do the upkeep myself. I think a daily bath in the some of the things I’ve read would not be a healthy thing. But again, I would be curious to know their reasons for not continuing with one even though they had changed lawyers.

I don’t think the Ramseys killed their daughter. I do think they are fairly shallow, not very sophisticated or highly intelligent, and certainly not up to creating a huge coverup and fooling those who have had years of experience in dealing with both the guilty and the innocent.

[Tricia]

I would certainly be interested in the details of the Foundation and the details of its termination. There are many ways to close a non-profit foundation. All of them require meeting a variety of IRS regulations. Among other things the JBR Foundation could have simply been transferred to another foundation which would then inherit all the requirements the JBR Foundation was set up with. I would also be interested in knowing what account the check to the camp was written on. Did anybody (aside from the Ramseys) take a tax deduction for a donation to the Foundation? Was it denied by the IRS? The book purchase doesn’t count since that’s not deductible. These are some of the bits and pieces I’m curious about. So far, I’ve seen too few facts to draw any conclusions.

As far as the claim on the back of the book goes – I’d also like to hear what the Ramseys say about it. The book’s last printing was in January ’01. The last tax return for the foundation was filed on August ’01. The fact that "as of the date of [your] press release" the back of the book (printed in ’01) still says "Author’s proceeds from the sale…" doesn’t really mean anything. I don’t expect the Ramseys to run around with jars of white-out changing the cover. You seem to imply they should do something to fix this book cover. What do you suggest as a practical solution?

Had I been in the Ramsey’s position I probably would have had someone keep up a tip website for me. However, having seen what people are capable of saying on these forums, I would not do the upkeep myself. I think a daily bath in the some of the things I’ve read would not be a healthy thing. But again, I would be curious to know their reasons for not continuing with one even though they had changed lawyers.

I don’t think the Ramseys killed their daughter. I do think they are fairly shallow, not very sophisticated or highly intelligent, and certainly not up to creating a huge coverup and fooling those who have had years of experience in dealing with both the guilty and the innocent.


No tipper I don't expect them to run around with white out. I do expect them to be honest which I don't believe they are.

If they had a website up they could have at least let people know, who are buying the book today, that any money made from the book is now going into a private foundation not a non-profit.

The problem is there is never an attempt by the Ramseys to try and do the right thing .To try and keep their word.

Look what Patsy said on Larry King Live. She said the Foundation donated a thousand dollars to this camp. Low and behold it wasn't until a reporter called that the check actually showed up. You do have to wonder if the check would have ever been written had the reporter not asked about it. But on LKL Patsy made it very clear that the Foundation had already donated the money. That just wasn't true. In all fairness the head of the camp said Patsy had said she would donate one thousands a few weeks before the Larry King Show.

The way I read the article is the check received from the Ramseys was written on a "foundation" check.

The Non-Profit JonBenet Ramsey Foundation is gone. The promises John made about the goals of the foundation never even got off the ground. Now the Foundation is a "family thing." We don't know what the foundation does. If it does anything. Because it was offically closed, according to the IRS, in 2000. We can't see the books.

I want to make it clear I don't care what the Ramseys do with their money. It's none of my business. I bring the foundation up because to me it reflects the sincerity of John Ramsey and his ability to actually do what he says he will do.

[tipper]

Could you please explain the difference between a private foundation and a non-profit foundation?

[Tricia]

Could you please explain the difference between a private foundation and a non-profit foundation?

The way it was explained to me by the IRS is a Non-Profit organization basically has to show that it's non-profit. It has to show the books more or less. You have to set up your organization as something that will not be a "for profit" business. You can accept donations and people who give you money can take a tax deduction. BUT you have to open your books. To what extent I don't know.

A 501 (c) can accept things like stock or real estate too. The non-profits that I have worked with have careful guidelines they must follow.

A private means just that. It's private. There is no non-profit status. However you can still have a "foundation" that isn't non-profit. That is apparently what the Ramseys did until 2000. Now what the IRS said was the JBR Foundation was closed. Period. Gone. Private or not. I would take that to mean that it really is now just a family thing and there is no need to file with the IRS. They can donate to anyone they want in JonBenet's name just with a checking account that says, JonBenet Ramsey Foundation. However I am not sure. I am going by what the research showed and what was said by the IRS.

Here is an example of something closed. Remember the "Friends of JonBenet?" Well they closed. Gone. There is no organization anymore in the state of Georgia called the Friends of JonBenet. It was closed down in April of this year.

Now that doesn't mean it won't pop up somewhere else. It just means it's no longer in the state of Georgia.


The non-profit JBR Foundation lasted a whole year. Then the Foundation slowly died without accomplishing anything the Ramseys said it would. But you can still read about it in their book that is still being sold.

No website for tips. No website for information. No website in memory of their daughter. But damn the Ramseys sure do have a good lookin' website for John don't they?

[tipper]

That's what I thought you were thinking. And it may be what John Ramsey is thinking too when he says "private." However, to be accurate, the IRS also defines a private foundation as follows:

Private Foundations
Every organization that qualifies for tax exemption as an organization described in section 501(c)(3) is a private foundation unless it falls into one of the categories specifically excluded from the definition of that term (referred to in section 509(a)). In addition, certain nonexempt charitable trusts are also treated as private foundations. Organizations that fall into the excluded categories are generally those that either have broad public support or actively function in a supporting relationship to such organizations.

So the question becomes: what kind of foundation is he refering to? A simple separate checking account? A tax exempt foundation? A nonexempt foundation? A private non-operating foundation? A private operating foundation? As a candidate for office I think it is a legitimate question for him to answer. But I don't think any conclusions can be drawn with the information available so far.

[tezi]

No website for tips. No website for information. No website in memory of their daughter. But damn the Ramseys sure do have a good lookin' website for John don't they?

Yes, his run for office in Michigan is apparently more important than finding the killer of his daughter. Seems to me like his priorities(sp) are seriously out of order. :furious: JMO, however, not that it counts for much....

[AutumnBorn]

At the first press conference of the Ramsey's, there was a reward poster shown to the media. The poster indicated that Crimestoppers was working with the family to set up the reward.

I contacted Crimestoppers and was informed, in writing, that Crimestoppers had no idea about the reward but that the organization did speak with the Ramsey's afterward about helping them. However, when the Ramsey's were told that the reward money would have to be put into a special Crimestoppers account, that the $ actually had to be available, they chose not to work with the organization.

This was way back before the Ramsey's "lost" all their money. They obviously never had any intention of paying a reward. Or knew they'd never have to do so.

[Show Me]

At the first press conference of the Ramsey's, there was a reward poster shown to the media. The poster indicated that Crimestoppers was working with the family to set up the reward.

I contacted Crimestoppers and was informed, in writing, that Crimestoppers had no idea about the reward but that the organization did speak with the Ramsey's afterward about helping them. However, when the Ramsey's were told that the reward money would have to be put into a special Crimestoppers account, that the $ actually had to be available, they chose not to work with the organization.

This was way back before the Ramsey's "lost" all their money. They obviously never had any intention of paying a reward. Or knew they'd never have to do so.

Trish I hope you are adding this to your list....Thanks Autumn Born, I'd forgotten about Crimestoppers.

Didn't the Ramsey's publish a seperate phone number also at first? One the crimestoppers said had no affiliation with them?

Some opponent of the Rams ought to ask him if the reward is still in place, and if not where did the money go? To pay the lawyers?

[solosamtheman]

I don’t think the Ramseys killed their daughter. I do think they are fairly shallow, not very sophisticated or highly intelligent, and certainly not up to creating a huge coverup and fooling those who have had years of experience in dealing with both the guilty and the innocent.


Well thats the thing tipper. They haven't fooled them. What has happened is a mix of sloppy police work, combined with lazy DAs and others who are afraid to mess with the rich and powerful. Just by pure luck some other things happened that added to the confusion and chaos. And I'm sure that by now when Patsy considers all that really happened, she really does believe in miracles. And hey, how bout that Lou guy? Is he awesome or what?

[Tricia]

That's what I thought you were thinking. And it may be what John Ramsey is thinking too when he says "private." However, to be accurate, the IRS also defines a private foundation as follows:

Private Foundations
Every organization that qualifies for tax exemption as an organization described in section 501(c)(3) is a private foundation unless it falls into one of the categories specifically excluded from the definition of that term (referred to in section 509(a)). In addition, certain nonexempt charitable trusts are also treated as private foundations. Organizations that fall into the excluded categories are generally those that either have broad public support or actively function in a supporting relationship to such organizations.

So the question becomes: what kind of foundation is he refering to? A simple separate checking account? A tax exempt foundation? A nonexempt foundation? A private non-operating foundation? A private operating foundation? As a candidate for office I think it is a legitimate question for him to answer. But I don't think any conclusions can be drawn with the information available so far.

Tipper,

Thank you so much. As usual when you deal with the I.R.S. a yes or no question really isn't that simple.

This is a guess on my part but I have a feeling it's a simple checking account under the name of The JonBenet Ramsey Foundation. I would guess they have one for Beth too. That way if they want to make any donations they can do so in the names of their daughters.

You know what? There is nothing wrong with that. No one should criticize them if they choose to have it set up this way.

Tipper you brought up the points that I have the most problems with. What is John talking about? Also if they have chosen to now have a private foundation what about all the promises made in DOI? What happened to John's follow through?

[Britt]

As a candidate for office I think it is a legitimate question for him to answer. But I don't think any conclusions can be drawn with the information available so far.
Fine, tipper, you send them money... lol :D

Well thats the thing tipper. They haven't fooled them. What has happened is a mix of sloppy police work, combined with lazy DAs and others who are afraid to mess with the rich and powerful. Just by pure luck some other things happened that added to the confusion and chaos. And I'm sure that by now when Patsy considers all that really happened, she really does believe in miracles. And hey, how bout that Lou guy? Is he awesome or what?
:clap: solosam, how very true. Well put.

[Sabrina]

"Didn't the Ramsey's publish a seperate phone number also at first? One the crimestoppers said had no affiliation with them? "


I do recall that an incorrect phone number was published in D.O.I. as the tip line!

[Show Me]

Oh boy, Sabrina....what the voters in Michigan can look forward to if John is elected.

Wrong phone numbers, wrong web sites, blantantly bypassing other organizations rules and regulations, stealing foundation money donated by others. Don't ask John to explain it either....'cause it's ALWAYS someone else's fault, or he doesn't remember.

[Shawna]

What I find interesting is that the treasurer for the JBR foundation is Gail Heinzman. Gail is a certified chartered accountant in Colorado. Her husband is the CEO of SourceSpring Software in Boulder. Would anyone know if the Heinzman's were part of the Ramsey's inner circle of friends?

http://www.sourcespringsoftware.com/Company.html