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View Full Version : FL-AMBER ALERT Haleigh Cummings 5 yrs. old - Putnam County #25


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CW
02-16-2009, 10:09 PM
Continue posting here please.

natsound
02-16-2009, 10:11 PM
OMG... look at this freeze frame of RC and Misty. I had to do a double take. That's his girlfriend??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492185,00.html

KaylynnCouture
02-16-2009, 10:11 PM
Thanks for the new thread :clap:

:rose: Praying for little Haleigh.

TripleA
02-16-2009, 10:11 PM
Could Misty have had a guy over and Haleigh walked in on them?

CeeKer
02-16-2009, 10:13 PM
Bringing this over from the other thread:

Originally Posted by Absolutely Addicted View Post
This is a good read....

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=131465&catid=3

ETA link broken, trying to fix it... It's ok now.

KaylynnCouture
02-16-2009, 10:13 PM
OMG... look at this freeze frame of RC and Misty. I had to do a double take. That's his girlfriend??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492185,00.html

Yeah, she looks really young, I agree.

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 10:18 PM
Ok - about the church and K Johns and possible father Pastor Alfred Johns.

It was said that Haleigh was in the children's ministry. Could that be the link between KJ and Haleigh? IF the pastor is his father - do we know that for sure? Anyone? It would make sense that KJ would hang around the church and father would be trying to "save him" or "redeem him" from his "previous sins".

I would really like to know if LE are all over this - I would think there are local LE - lived there all their lives and KNOW, personally know, these people and whose father is whose son is married to whose mother. Wouldn't that info be shared behind closed doors of the command center?

Do they suspect this KJ - what has he said. Its his house that the bloodhound track makes a loop around.

Found this in media:

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- The search for Haleigh Cummings is continuing by foot and along the St. Johns River Sunday.

Crews from Equusearch were handling the bulk of the ground search.

At church services all around Satsuma people were praying for Haleigh's safe return.

Pastor Alfred Johns at the Satsuma First Baptist Church says the suffering of one family has devastated the whole community.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=131393&catid=4

natsound
02-16-2009, 10:20 PM
Sounds to me like one of the guys who was over at the house earlier in the evening came back and got HC. The dad and the girlfriend swear the door was locked, and that a child couldn't unlock the deadbolt, but maybe that deadbolt was unlocked. HC probably let the guy(s) in because she recognized them, and she was taken.

Or, that cousin of Misty's that's supposedly a RSO, that lived there for a while.

kellync
02-16-2009, 10:22 PM
Here's a thought. If Misty HERSELF went to bed at 10:30 and woke up around 3, thats 4.5 hrs of sleep. If something happened, she probably stayed up all night, I wonder how much she slept the next day. Did she crash hard, or what? Maybe thats why she went to her Moms, she knew they'd let her sleep allll day, and no one would bother her. Now, I know she must have needed rest because this has to be exhausting, but I could manage on 4.5 hrs much better than 0 hrs...

TripleA
02-16-2009, 10:22 PM
The Greta interview said that Ron and Misty had been living there for awhile. How long is awhile? Is she almost 18 or just barely 17 yo? Obviously her judgment is impaired by age, immaturity, and other unknown factors. What normal 17 yo would want to be holed up in a double-wide with a man and his kids? None of that makes either of them guilty of any wrong-doing to Haleigh, it just goes to her thought-process if she does know more than she is saying.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 10:23 PM
I brought this up this morning, my fiance noticed it and left it for me in a note full of questions about Haleigh.
In the Geraldo show last night, they showed a shot of the screen door to the trailer. There was what appeared to be a piece of rope around the handle on the screen door.
He questioned why this was and I do as well. WHo ties rope around a door handle? I could see it if they had a small dog, but from what I have heard, there are no pets at the house.
Did anyone else notice it or have any idea why it was there?
TIA.

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 10:25 PM
The Greta interview said that Ron and Misty had been living there for awhile. How long is awhile? Is she almost 18 or just barely 17 yo? Obviously her judgment is impaired by age, immaturity, and other unknown factors. What normal 17 yo would want to be holed up in a double-wide with a man and his kids? None of that makes either of them guilty of any wrong-doing to Haleigh, it just goes to her thought-process if she does know more than she is saying.
RC and MC have been "dating" for 5 months - lived in THAT home for 4 months.

MC just turned 17 in Dec. 08.

Searchfortruth
02-16-2009, 10:25 PM
OMG... look at this freeze frame of RC and Misty. I had to do a double take. That's his girlfriend??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492185,00.htmlI know, she looks REALLY young in that picture, video. I was thinking she looked about 12 there. That video was just weird, IMO.

supergirl
02-16-2009, 10:26 PM
I brought this up this morning, my fiance noticed it and left it for me in a note full of questions about Haleigh.
In the Geraldo show last night, they showed a shot of the screen door to the trailer. There was what appeared to be a piece of rope around the handle on the screen door.
He questioned why this was and I do as well. WHo ties rope around a door handle? I could see it if they had a small dog, but from what I have heard, there are no pets at the house.
Did anyone else notice it or have any idea why it was there?
TIA.

I have thought about it since your post this am. I have come up with 2 reasons that might make sense
1-to loop over a railing (do they have one?) to hold the door open
2-for the kids to be able to open it if they are too short to reach the handle (like if out playing and need to get inside to go potty).

What have you come up with?

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 10:27 PM
I brought this up this morning, my fiance noticed it and left it for me in a note full of questions about Haleigh.
In the Geraldo show last night, they showed a shot of the screen door to the trailer. There was what appeared to be a piece of rope around the handle on the screen door.
He questioned why this was and I do as well. WHo ties rope around a door handle? I could see it if they had a small dog, but from what I have heard, there are no pets at the house.
Did anyone else notice it or have any idea why it was there?
TIA.
I saw that too - looked for it again today when you brought that up. That is the screen door to the front porch - which goes to the front door. I don't think that was the screen door that was propped open. The door on the side of the house has a screen door and a solid door together.

Hope that helps - that's what I saw.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 10:31 PM
I have thought about it since your post this am. I have come up with 2 reasons that might make sense
1-to loop over a railing (do they have one?) to hold the door open
2-for the kids to be able to open it if they are too short to reach the handle (like if out playing and need to get inside to go potty).

What have you come up with?

Honestly, not much. I have thought about it maybe being to hold the door shut if the latch is broken, so the door doesn't slam in the wind. I don't think I saw a railing and my fiance doesn't remember one either, but they only showed it for a second.
The other option that I have thought of is maybe at night, using the rope to tie one of the children outside. I don't know, it would have had to have been at night for something like that, which would have meant that Misty was doing it.
Even though I do think that whatever happened to Haleigh is at least partially Misty's fault, I hate to thin that she was capable of sustained cruelty.
So I am hoping that it's one of the simple explanations, like to hold the door shut or something that the prior tenants left that Ron and Misty never took off.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 10:34 PM
I saw that too - looked for it again today when you brought that up. That is the screen door to the front porch - which goes to the front door. I don't think that was the screen door that was propped open. The door on the side of the house has a screen door and a solid door together.

Hope that helps - that's what I saw.

I wasn't sure which door it was. But it struck him so odd and it was very odd to me too, once he got me thinking about it. He is very good at catching tiny little details.
I use my old man as my own video screening station.

Fairy1
02-16-2009, 10:36 PM
RC and MC have been "dating" for 5 months - lived in THAT home for 4 months.

MC just turned 17 in Dec. 08.

Oh my. I'm sorry, I have a problem with this. And I am well aware that there are many teen moms who are good moms, but this girl is NOT the mother of these children and was NOT married to their father. She is not their stepmother but just shacked up with a dude who happens to have children. I really find it difficult to believe she had a meaningful connection with these babies after 5 months. Not saying she hurt Hayleigh herself, but I just don't see her having the experience or sincere desire to keep them safe and sound. JMHO.

kellync
02-16-2009, 10:36 PM
misty has an old myspace, no friends, and on Sept 12, she was single. Her and Ron must have "gotten together" really fast, like 5 months to the day almost..http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=412920159

Dani_md
02-16-2009, 10:36 PM
I brought this up this morning, my fiance noticed it and left it for me in a note full of questions about Haleigh.
In the Geraldo show last night, they showed a shot of the screen door to the trailer. There was what appeared to be a piece of rope around the handle on the screen door.
He questioned why this was and I do as well. WHo ties rope around a door handle? I could see it if they had a small dog, but from what I have heard, there are no pets at the house.
Did anyone else notice it or have any idea why it was there?
TIA.

A long time ago my parent's lock on the screen door was broke and when we would get strong winds it would blow the screen door out and make it sometimes come off the hinges. We never used the front door until my neice started kindergarten, so my dad tied a rope from the handle on the screen door to the knob on the storm door, which kept is closed and wind proof. That could be a reason.

supergirl
02-16-2009, 10:37 PM
Honestly, not much. I have thought about it maybe being to hold the door shut if the latch is broken, so the door doesn't slam in the wind. I don't think I saw a railing and my fiance doesn't remember one either, but they only showed it for a second.
The other option that I have thought of is maybe at night, using the rope to tie one of the children outside. I don't know, it would have had to have been at night for something like that, which would have meant that Misty was doing it.
Even though I do think that whatever happened to Haleigh is at least partially Misty's fault, I hate to thin that she was capable of sustained cruelty.
So I am hoping that it's one of the simple explanations, like to hold the door shut or something that the prior tenants left that Ron and Misty never took off.

Wow, that's a leap I am not ready to take yet. Not without some concrete evidence of prolonged abuse coming to light.
I still think Misty knows something, but she may not even be aware that she does. Or she is afraid to tell it. Haven't heard anything indicating she's cruel. As a matter of fact, heard she loved the kids and the kids loved her. That was even from bio moms fam before they all decided to make nice.

passionflower
02-16-2009, 10:37 PM
OMG... look at this freeze frame of RC and Misty. I had to do a double take. That's his girlfriend??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492185,00.html

Sure is, that is Misty

catch_22
02-16-2009, 10:38 PM
jr. being a witness is definitely something to think about. i wonder how well he can communicate? i wonder if he would remember or think it was strange if he didn't see his sister for an hour or two before bed? or if he'd be able to tell someone this?

flnana
02-16-2009, 10:40 PM
This is for txsvicki in response to your question about behavior problems in girls with TS. (from the previous thread)
Yes, they have socialization problems and also problems with spacial perception (many can't get a driver's license because of the perception problems). They are usually very bright, but are very nonverbal and lack the ability to "read" signals from other people--they don't pick up on the fact that they are on your last nerve or that you are upset--you have to tell them specifically that you are upset because ... or that ____ is really bothering you. I would think this would be difficult for a 17 year old to be aware of and understand that it is not misbehavior, but just the way their brain is wired. Heck, I'm 57 and it's sometimes hard for me to remember to be very specific about what the particular behavior is and exactly how it should be corrected!

sc2714
02-16-2009, 10:41 PM
I was just thinking about the thing that bothers me most... why Misty didn't call 911 right away. What if she knew she had to call the police but there were drugs, or something else that is illegal, in the home. Maybe in that 20 minute-ish period she was disposing of something or hiding something. IF the allegations against Ronald from Crystal are true, he was/is a coke dealer.

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 10:43 PM
Lisa Carman Croslin Age 39 (Misty’s Mother)

Carman is also a surname. Some women take there maiden name as their middle once married.

mydailyopinions
02-16-2009, 10:47 PM
OMG... look at this freeze frame of RC and Misty. I had to do a double take. That's his girlfriend??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492185,00.html

Watching this video, I heard yet another story..
Ron says that once he seen Misty and wondered why she was up, Misty said she woke up to go to the bathroom,seen that Haleigh not in the bed so she went to go find her when she noticed the door was open.
:confused::confused::confused:

Dani_md
02-16-2009, 10:48 PM
I was just thinking about the thing that bothers me most... why Misty didn't call 911 right away. What if she knew she had to call the police but there were drugs, or something else that is illegal, in the home. Maybe in that 20 minute-ish period she was disposing of something or hiding something. IF the allegations against Ronald from Crystal are true, he was/is a coke dealer.

I don't understand why she didn't call the police for so long either. I definately know that at 17 being alone with 2 kids in the middle of the night early morning I'd be scared to death. Which, she prob was scared being in the trailor alone to be sleeping in the room with children. I think my instincts would tell me to immediately grab the other child and call 911. Even run to a neighbors house with the other child and call 911. I would be scared the person was still in the house or might come back. I wouldn't just sit there twirling my hair. Now as a mother I'd be out for blood, but I still wouldn't let the other child out of my sight.

kellync
02-16-2009, 10:49 PM
From the Greta interview:
VAN SUSTEREN: Was anything going on with her? Did she fall asleep easily? Was she at all anxious, getting up and leaving the bed?
CROSLIN: No. She had school, so I put her to bed about 8:00 because that is her bedtime so she can get up and go to school, so she's not tired.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you been drinking or anything so you would be in a heavy, deep sleep all that night?
CROSLIN: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, did anyone come over to the house that evening while Ronald was at work? Any friends come over?
CROSLIN: No. My older brother had come over with my nephews, and the AC guy.
VAN SUSTEREN: What time did they leave?
CROSLIN: They got there about 5:00. And they stayed for about 30 minutes until about 5:30, 5:45.


VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, let me ask you this same question. Misty, how do you think that door got open?
CROSLIN: Someone had either picked the lock, they would have had to pick the lock. That is the only way that anybody could have gotten in our back door is if they picked the lock.

VAN SUSTEREN: How far was Haleigh physically sleeping from you?
CUMMINGS: Probably not three or four inches away. She was in front of the TV, not that far away at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you say three or four inches away?
CROSLIN: I mean, I am not sure. It was not that far away.
VAN SUSTEREN: Can you hold up your hands and show how far away she was sleeping?
CROSLIN: Probably from both of these chairs put together from my bed.
VAN SUSTEREN: About as far as Ronald is from you?
CROSLIN: Yes.
CUMMINGS: No.
CROSLIN: No?
CUMMINGS: I know where the beds were at. They are about four feet apart from the edge of the bed she was in to the edge of the bed Haleigh was in.
CROSLIN: I was not measuring or anything like that, so--
VAN SUSTEREN: I know you both took a polygraph today. Did they say you were deceptive or not on the polygraph. Did they tell you how your results were? How were yours, Ronald?
CUMMINGS: Absolutely, they did. And it was not today that we took a polygraph. We took the polygraph yesterday. And, yes, we both did pass.
VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, what did they say about your results?
CROSLIN: You mean that I passed?
VAN SUSTEREN: Did they use the word "pass," or did they say there was no sign of deception?
CUMMINGS: They told me that I passed.
CROSLIN: They really did not say much to me.

Sorry for the long post, some of this is strange, some very telling to me..

supergirl
02-16-2009, 10:51 PM
on greta just now, said reclassified from abduction to endagered missing child??? LE says they made mistake and always should have called it that. Also, when asked why LE keeps going back to MIsty, they answered because they still don't have all the answers they want. Greta asked reporter what does that mean, reporter said LE says it's not because she ins't cooperating (she and all fam are), but too many pieces not fitting still. Huh.

Searchfortruth
02-16-2009, 10:53 PM
I don't understand why she didn't call the police for so long either. I definately know that at 17 being alone with 2 kids in the middle of the night early morning I'd be scared to death. Which, she prob was scared being in the trailor alone to be sleeping in the room with children. I think my instincts would tell me to immediately grab the other child and call 911. Even run to a neighbors house with the other child and call 911. I would be scared the person was still in the house or might come back. I wouldn't just sit there twirling my hair. Now as a mother I'd be out for blood, but I still wouldn't let the other child out of my sight.I don't get that either, even if she's young, which she is, I would think that finding your boyfriend's daughter missing at 3:00 am would have you on that phone right away. Now, there are some people who have had a lot of contact with the police that are afraid to call the police for anything, but I would think this situation would trump any fear of police.

mydailyopinions
02-16-2009, 10:53 PM
From the Greta interview:
VAN SUSTEREN: Was anything going on with her? Did she fall asleep easily? Was she at all anxious, getting up and leaving the bed?
CROSLIN: No. She had school, so I put her to bed about 8:00 because that is her bedtime so she can get up and go to school, so she's not tired.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you been drinking or anything so you would be in a heavy, deep sleep all that night?
CROSLIN: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, did anyone come over to the house that evening while Ronald was at work? Any friends come over?
CROSLIN: No. My older brother had come over with my nephews, and the AC guy.
VAN SUSTEREN: What time did they leave?
CROSLIN: They got there about 5:00. And they stayed for about 30 minutes until about 5:30, 5:45.


VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, let me ask you this same question. Misty, how do you think that door got open?
CROSLIN: Someone had either picked the lock, they would have had to pick the lock. That is the only way that anybody could have gotten in our back door is if they picked the lock.

VAN SUSTEREN: How far was Haleigh physically sleeping from you?
CUMMINGS: Probably not three or four inches away. She was in front of the TV, not that far away at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you say three or four inches away?
CROSLIN: I mean, I am not sure. It was not that far away.
VAN SUSTEREN: Can you hold up your hands and show how far away she was sleeping?
CROSLIN: Probably from both of these chairs put together from my bed.
VAN SUSTEREN: About as far as Ronald is from you?
CROSLIN: Yes.
CUMMINGS: No.
CROSLIN: No?
CUMMINGS: I know where the beds were at. They are about four feet apart from the edge of the bed she was in to the edge of the bed Haleigh was in.
CROSLIN: I was not measuring or anything like that, so--
VAN SUSTEREN: I know you both took a polygraph today. Did they say you were deceptive or not on the polygraph. Did they tell you how your results were? How were yours, Ronald?
CUMMINGS: Absolutely, they did. And it was not today that we took a polygraph. We took the polygraph yesterday. And, yes, we both did pass.
VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, what did they say about your results?
CROSLIN: You mean that I passed?
VAN SUSTEREN: Did they use the word "pass," or did they say there was no sign of deception?
CUMMINGS: They told me that I passed.
CROSLIN: They really did not say much to me.

Sorry for the long post, some of this is strange, some very telling to me..

Did you notice Ron's facial expressions while Misty answered some of those questions? It was as if this was the first time he had heard her answers, or not what she had told him before..?

sc2714
02-16-2009, 10:54 PM
I don't understand why she didn't call the police for so long either. I definately know that at 17 being alone with 2 kids in the middle of the night early morning I'd be scared to death. Which, she prob was scared being in the trailor alone to be sleeping in the room with children. I think my instincts would tell me to immediately grab the other child and call 911. Even run to a neighbors house with the other child and call 911. I would be scared the person was still in the house or might come back. I wouldn't just sit there twirling my hair. Now as a mother I'd be out for blood, but I still wouldn't let the other child out of my sight.

Yea. As a mom, I try to put myself in her position and I'm pretty sure if I was in a trailer in the woods by myself, I would grab a weapon, my phone, the other kid, and hide in the closet while I called police. Then again, I might start screaming my head off and running around madly trying to find the missing child.

There are so many "normal" ways to act when you find your child missing out of their bed. Misty did not act normal, we can tell that for sure. But could it be because she is not their mom? Or was it normal for Haleigh to wander the house at night? Or was she under the influence of something that caused her judgment and reactions to be muted. She comes across as someone who cares for children. On various people's MySpace's, I saw tons of pictures of her with her nieces and nephews, it is obvious that she does have experience with children and enjoys them. I cannot see her purposefully harming Haleigh.

supergirl
02-16-2009, 10:54 PM
Did you notice Ron's facial expressions while Misty answered some of those questions? It was as if this was the first time he had heard her answers, or not what she had told him before..?

i thought that too.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Are we even sure that Misty really had a phone to call 911? I know earlier there was discussion of whether there were ever really 2 phones in that house or if Ron had the only one.

Fairy1
02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't understand why she didn't call the police for so long either. I definately know that at 17 being alone with 2 kids in the middle of the night early morning I'd be scared to death. Which, she prob was scared being in the trailor alone to be sleeping in the room with children. I think my instincts would tell me to immediately grab the other child and call 911. Even run to a neighbors house with the other child and call 911. I would be scared the person was still in the house or might come back. I wouldn't just sit there twirling my hair. Now as a mother I'd be out for blood, but I still wouldn't let the other child out of my sight.

I think she was scared to death - of Ron. She's barely 17 and these are not her babies. IMO - she doesn't have the instincts that a mother would have to get the he!! out. She may have been looking for Haleigh or getting rid of something she didn't want LE to find or really just didn't know what to do. If they were dealing drugs, it would explain why RC immediately assumed someone took his child as opposed to her just wandering away. That just doesn't sit right with me.

catch_22
02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
on greta just now, said reclassified from abduction to endagered missing child??? LE says they made mistake and always should have called it that. Also, when asked why LE keeps going back to MIsty, they answered because they still don't have all the answers they want. Greta asked reporter what does that mean, reporter said LE says it's not because she ins't cooperating (she and all fam are), but too many pieces not fitting still. Huh.

maybe misty and others are acting like they are cooperating and answering questions and what not.......but maybe the answers they are giving are B.S.

i guess not cooperating would mean lawyering up and refusing to talk.

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
on greta just now, said reclassified from abduction to endagered missing child??? LE says they made mistake and always should have called it that. Also, when asked why LE keeps going back to MIsty, they answered because they still don't have all the answers they want. Greta asked reporter what does that mean, reporter said LE says it's not because she ins't cooperating (she and all fam are), but too many pieces not fitting still. Huh.

Can someone splain that to me. Someone took her then - they didn't... but she is missing. What I am not getting here. They don't believe that a stranger took her but somebody did. :banghead: She's cooperating but they still don't know anything or Misty just doesen't have the answers they want?. :confused:

kellync
02-16-2009, 10:59 PM
i thought that too.
YES!

IMO, Misty is sticking to her story, thus "cooperating"
"I didnt leave the back door open"
"I didnt put the cinder block there"
"I didnt hear anything"
She probably doesnt have the resources to lawyer up, so she is cooperating, but sticking to the same answers. I'd be willing to bet the inconsistencies are around the 8-10pm mark.

Dani_md
02-16-2009, 11:01 PM
Yea. As a mom, I try to put myself in her position and I'm pretty sure if I was in a trailer in the woods by myself, I would grab a weapon, my phone, the other kid, and hide in the closet while I called police. Then again, I might start screaming my head off and running around madly trying to find the missing child.

There are so many "normal" ways to act when you find your child missing out of their bed. Misty did not act normal, we can tell that for sure. But could it be because she is not their mom? Or was it normal for Haleigh to wander the house at night? Or was she under the influence of something that caused her judgment and reactions to be muted. She comes across as someone who cares for children. On various people's MySpace's, I saw tons of pictures of her with her nieces and nephews, it is obvious that she does have experience with children and enjoys them. I cannot see her purposefully harming Haleigh.


Sometimes pictures and looks can be decieving. There are pictures of lot's of people out there looking caring, nurturing, and happy in pictures. But what happens behind closed doors. One thing you almost always hear the neighbors say in case when people harm their children or other children is " I don't believe it" or "they were such a happy family". I don't want to believe anybody this little girl knew or loved harmed her either, but as we've been shown in the past it does happen and more then we like to think.

supergirl
02-16-2009, 11:01 PM
Can someone splain that to me. Someone took her then they didn't but she is missing. What I am not getting here. They don't believe that a stranger took her but somebody did. :banghead: She's cooperation but they still don't know anything or Misty just doesen't have the answers the want?. :confused:

I was hoping it could be explained to me! I saw and listened with my own eyes and ears and am confused.
will anything about this whole thing ever makes sense????

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:03 PM
I have wondered if maybe that is why no one has been publicly singled out as a suspect or charged. Until they are charged with something, LE can ask all the questions they want, but once they arrest someone, that person is entitled to free legal counsel.
I think that there is a lot more that LE knows than they are letting on. I just think they are waiting and letting their person hang themselves.

FightTheOstrich
02-16-2009, 11:04 PM
I think she was scared to death - of Ron. She's barely 17 and these are not her babies. IMO - she doesn't have the instincts that a mother would have to get the he!! out. She may have been looking for Haleigh or getting rid of something she didn't want LE to find or really just didn't know what to do. If they were dealing drugs, it would explain why RC immediately assumed someone took his child as opposed to her just wandering away. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I agree, b/c she is not a mother, those instincts did not kick in. Maybe self-preservation (i.e. hide the drugs, whatever) but I would have reacted entirely differently. This reminds me of the McCann case, so much emphasis on the locked door, cuddle cat, etc... WEIRD.

catch_22
02-16-2009, 11:04 PM
I was hoping it could be explained to me! I saw and listened with my own eyes and ears and am confused.
will anything about this whole thing ever makes sense????

i think LE is either totally clueless about this case or they know a lot and are building a case and will arrest someone(s) fairly soon. one extreme or another......

kellync
02-16-2009, 11:05 PM
Well, the difference between "missing" and "abducted" is clear. Lets start there...
scary..... If not abducted, not taken. but still missing.

djk
02-16-2009, 11:06 PM
Are we even sure that Misty really had a phone to call 911? I know earlier there was discussion of whether there were ever really 2 phones in that house or if Ron had the only one.

well on the 911 call transcript dad days "where's my f'ing phone" so I figure there must have been at least 2 or he was just spewing lies by saying that.

Truthwillsetufree
02-16-2009, 11:08 PM
on greta just now, said reclassified from abduction to endagered missing child??? LE says they made mistake and always should have called it that. Also, when asked why LE keeps going back to MIsty, they answered because they still don't have all the answers they want. Greta asked reporter what does that mean, reporter said LE says it's not because she ins't cooperating (she and all fam are), but too many pieces not fitting still. Huh.

What is the difference? Come on I mean really WTF is the difference? This child is missing and LE is playing semantics with us? People wanting to help, search, need more information, tell us where to look, tell us where to start anything, we will help....throw us a bone, OMG we will do whatever to assist you in finding this beautiful child but we have to have some decent information.....

jaimie43
02-16-2009, 11:08 PM
2 things to throw out there...
1) Cinder blocks are usually readily available in a trailer park. You can see them scattered all over the place.

2) Did the little boy go to pre-school? If not did Misty have the responsibility of watching him all day too while RC slept?

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:09 PM
Haliegh's listing on NCMEC has been updated to endangered missing, which fits what LE is saying.
http://missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1115793&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

I am definitely seeing a Fibbie profiler sitting over local LE's shoulder and instructing them what to do to get a confession from their suspect.

jaimie43
02-16-2009, 11:09 PM
well on the 911 call transcript dad days "where's my f'ing phone" so I figure there must have been at least 2 or he was just spewing lies by saying that.

Or he could be like other controlling men and expect her to find it and bring it to him.

catch_22
02-16-2009, 11:09 PM
i think the 3pm to 3am workshift was brought up by the bio mom. i tend to think that she probably doesn't really know the exact times (if he did work the same hours everyday).

i think he worked from 4:30pm to 3:00am with a 1/2hr lunch for a 10hr shift.

or, from 4:00pm to 3:00am with a one hour lunch for a 10hr shift.

i am basing this on nothing.

Dani_md
02-16-2009, 11:11 PM
well on the 911 call transcript dad days "where's my f'ing phone" so I figure there must have been at least 2 or he was just spewing lies by saying that.


If misty had called from a landline phone wouldn't the 911 operater be able to track the address from that? I know with a cellphone it is hard to track location but I thought with a landline it automatically shows up? I am not sure on that though. But I know my dad accidentally hit the emergency button on his phone once and the cops were the in seconds. So if the operater had to ask for the address would that mean she was on a cell. It still don't explain if it was her cell or Ron's.

Nicole_LongIsland
02-16-2009, 11:13 PM
I am a bit behind in reading. can someone tell me Misty's cousins name that molested her? I think I heard on geraldo that he molested misty but havent seen it in print. Is the cousin the missing RSO? Thanks in advance.

Busylady
02-16-2009, 11:15 PM
NCIC definition of endangered is this

Endangered: A person of any age who is missing and under circumstances indicating that his/her physical safety is in danger. (e.g., abductions by stranger or family)

So I am not understanding why the change in classification?

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:15 PM
If misty had called from a landline phone wouldn't the 911 operater be able to track the address from that? I know with a cellphone it is hard to track location but I thought with a landline it automatically shows up? I am not sure on that though. But I know my dad accidentally hit the emergency button on his phone once and the cops were the in seconds. So if the operater had to ask for the address would that mean she was on a cell. It still don't explain if it was her cell or Ron's.

I know they can trace location and phone number from a call to 911, but they still ask...I don't know the reason for that.
Every time I have had to call 911, they have asked me my address.
(BTW, I'm not an alarmist, but we live near a drug house and I have found a lot of people passed out in my yard. For a while there we were calling Emergency Services every couple weeks.)

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 11:15 PM
I have wondered if maybe that is why no one has been publicly singled out as a suspect or charged. Until they are charged with something, LE can ask all the questions they want, but once they arrest someone, that person is entitled to free legal counsel.
I think that there is a lot more that LE knows than they are letting on. I just think they are waiting and letting their person hang themselves.
ITA - and I'm willing to even go as far as to say that LE (and FBI) have an "in box" where they are continuing to stack up charge over charge for person over person here. Drugs, illegal "shacking up", child negligence, more drugs, underage drinking, contributing to deliquency of a minor(s), and on and on and on. That is why I think they (LE) are being so quiet - maybe every person they look at, they find something "else" illegal and find they are going to have to charge them with.

I think by the time this is over - half the d@mn town is going to be arrested! KWIM?

djk
02-16-2009, 11:17 PM
Or he could be like other controlling men and expect her to find it and bring it to him.

what I was trying to say if the minor child gf has a phone and is talking to 911 and daddy is heard saying in the background "where's my f'ing phone" and he knows minor child gf is using "his" phone for the call, he is spewing lies. but all this will come out because 911 has a record of what phone was used. it is either there is only 1 phone and daddy was spewing lies or there are at least 2 and minor child gf had one for the 911 call and he did not know where his was.

txsvicki
02-16-2009, 11:17 PM
Yea. As a mom, I try to put myself in her position and I'm pretty sure if I was in a trailer in the woods by myself, I would grab a weapon, my phone, the other kid, and hide in the closet while I called police. Then again, I might start screaming my head off and running around madly trying to find the missing child.

There are so many "normal" ways to act when you find your child missing out of their bed. Misty did not act normal, we can tell that for sure. But could it be because she is not their mom? Or was it normal for Haleigh to wander the house at night? Or was she under the influence of something that caused her judgment and reactions to be muted. She comes across as someone who cares for children. On various people's MySpace's, I saw tons of pictures of her with her nieces and nephews, it is obvious that she does have experience with children and enjoys them. I cannot see her purposefully harming Haleigh.


I know that I wouldn't hang around in that trailer for even 5 minutes with the back door still open and the front door closed up. I'd check the time, shut the back door and bolt lock it, and open the front door, but leave the screen locked in case I had to run out it quickly. Then I'd call police and I'd also be looking out windows to see if any vehicles were in the area, and get the gun if one were in the home. I'd also hide the sleeping boy in the closet or something while I searched the house for Hayleigh.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:18 PM
ITA - and I'm willing to even go as far as to say that LE (and FBI) have an "in box" where they are continuing to stack up charge over charge for person over person here. Drugs, illegal "shacking up", child negligence, more drugs, underage drinking, contributing to deliquency of a minor(s), and on and on and on. That is why I think they (LE) are being so quiet - maybe every person they look at, they find something "else" illegal and find they are going to have to charge them with.

I think by the time this is over - half the d@mn town is going to be arrested! KWIM?


Either half the town will be in lock up or half the town will have rolled over on the other half to get lighter sentences. Before long, no one will be speaking to anyone else.

catch_22
02-16-2009, 11:19 PM
If misty had called from a landline phone wouldn't the 911 operater be able to track the address from that? I know with a cellphone it is hard to track location but I thought with a landline it automatically shows up? I am not sure on that though. But I know my dad accidentally hit the emergency button on his phone once and the cops were the in seconds. So if the operater had to ask for the address would that mean she was on a cell. It still don't explain if it was her cell or Ron's.

i think she went outside when ron pulled up to tell him haleigh was gone. i think he gave her his cellphone and told her to cal 911. at some point he said "where is my phone?" or "give me my phone?" because he said "he had better people to talk to than someone that isn't coming." i assume he wanted to call his family or something.

i'm pretty sure 911 has your address when you call from a landline. they might still ask for it to verify or makesure it's not a prank, but they have it. i'm guessing misty callled ron from their landline.

jaimie43
02-16-2009, 11:19 PM
what I was trying to say if the minor child gf has a phone and is talking to 911 and daddy is heard saying in the background "where's my f'ing phone" and he knows minor child gf is using "his" phone for the call, he is spewing lies. but all this will come out because 911 has a record of what phone was used. it is either there is only 1 phone and daddy was spewing lies or there are at least 2 and minor child gf had one for the 911 call and he did not know where his was.

Ahhh...Got cha! Sure would be nice if LE could just give a nugget of info!

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 11:21 PM
what I was trying to say if the minor child gf has a phone and is talking to 911 and daddy is heard saying in the background "where's my f'ing phone" and he knows minor child gf is using "his" phone for the call, he is spewing lies. but all this will come out because 911 has a record of what phone was used. it is either there is only 1 phone and daddy was spewing lies or there are at least 2 and minor child gf had one for the 911 call and he did not know where his was.
In the 911 call dad says "give me MY efing phone". So it is obvious that she called 911 with his phone. What phone she used to call him as he pulled up in the driveway - well that we don't know. Dad said that on media interviews - that she called him - but on the police report dad says that gf was outside when he pulled up but says NOTHING about her calling him. There is also only one number listed in the police report - same number for both dad and gf - I checked it - it was a cingular cell. I have not been able to find a landline for the house and we don't know if gf had a cell or not. I'm betting not. Which makes it worse - not only did he leave her there at night alone with those two little ones and no vehicle - he left her with no phone either. Real good if there's an emergency.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:21 PM
Ahhh...Got cha! Sure would be nice if LE could just give a nugget of info!


A nugget of info, a concrete block worth of info...something:crazy:
Sorry, I am getting the middle of the night sillies.

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 11:22 PM
I am a bit behind in reading. can someone tell me Misty's cousins name that molested her? I think I heard on geraldo that he molested misty but havent seen it in print. Is the cousin the missing RSO? Thanks in advance.

We were never told the name. A Jeremy Miller was the one who was arrested when she was younger for abuse but he is still in jail. According to Craig R. they? we assume LE and the GR show showed her a picuture of someone from Tenn that is a RSO that had the same last name as her but she said that was NOTwho he was.
So your guess is as good as anyone's ..
The missing RSO is Chad Reynolds and LE is looking for him but does not feel is envolved.
Kyle Johns is RSO and lives in the neighborhood and his father is a local minister at a Baptist church and may be connected to the family but I can't remember which side.
Waldon Parson aka James Jeffery Lane aka something else that I can't recall used to live in the same trailer that Haleigh lived in as the last tennant but is now living in Tallahassee [?spelling].
Then there is a Guy Sapp but for the life of me I don't know what he has to do with it except he is a RSO also and he may be related to the Bio mothers side.

:bang: Sorry for all the imcomplete info. Best I can do. Having a hard time keeping all of this striaght.

cajun
02-16-2009, 11:23 PM
I have thought about it since your post this am. I have come up with 2 reasons that might make sense
1-to loop over a railing (do they have one?) to hold the door open
2-for the kids to be able to open it if they are too short to reach the handle (like if out playing and need to get inside to go potty).

What have you come up with?


If this was the side door where the ramp was maybe it was for someone who was in a wheelchair to grab the rope and pull open the door.

catch_22
02-16-2009, 11:24 PM
ITA - and I'm willing to even go as far as to say that LE (and FBI) have an "in box" where they are continuing to stack up charge over charge for person over person here. Drugs, illegal "shacking up", child negligence, more drugs, underage drinking, contributing to deliquency of a minor(s), and on and on and on. That is why I think they (LE) are being so quiet - maybe every person they look at, they find something "else" illegal and find they are going to have to charge them with.

I think by the time this is over - half the d@mn town is going to be arrested! KWIM?

i could be wrong, but i think they might ignore a lot of things they find and just concentrate on any charges pertaining to haleigh missing. if ron has nothing to do with haleigh missing and she turns up dead, i don't they're going to charge a grieving father with a bunch of stuff.

now if he is responsible for haleigh, they might throw the book at him with everything they can think of.

Lillie
02-16-2009, 11:24 PM
RC and MC have been "dating" for 5 months - lived in THAT home for 4 months.

MC just turned 17 in Dec. 08.

On her Myspace it says she is 19 and her astro is Gemini which would be for a March Apr birthdate .

Dani_md
02-16-2009, 11:24 PM
I know they can trace location and phone number from a call to 911, but they still ask...I don't know the reason for that.
Every time I have had to call 911, they have asked me my address.
(BTW, I'm not an alarmist, but we live near a drug house and I have found a lot of people passed out in my yard. For a while there we were calling Emergency Services every couple weeks.)

Ok, I didn't know. I have never called 911 myself. I know some people who did on cellphones not knowing the address they were at leaving police to search by the nearest towers that gave signals.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:24 PM
We were never told the name. A Jeremy Miller was the one who was arrested when she was younger for abuse but he is still in jail. According to Craig R. she they showed her a picuture of someone from Tenn that is a RSO that had the same last name as her but she said that was who he was.
So your guess is as good as anyone's ..
The missing RSO is Chad Reynolds and LE is looking for him but does not feel is envolved.
Kyle Johns is RSO and lives in the neighborhood and his father is a local minister at a Baptist church and may be connected to the family but I can't remember which side.
Waldon Parson aka James Jeffery Lane aka something else that I can't recall used to live in the same trailer that Haleigg lived in as the last tennant but is now living in Tallahassee [?spelling].
Then there is a Guy Sapp but for the life of me I don't know what he has to do with it except he is a RSO also and he may be related to the Bio mothers side.

:bang: Sorry for all the imcomplete info. Best I can do. Having a hard time keeping all of this striaght.

Actually, I never heard someone that had the same last name she did...what was said was that she gave the molester's name to LE, they showed her a picture of someone with the same last name that she gave them and she said it wasn't the same person...I could have misunderstood that one though. They weren't incredibly clear on that point.

cajun
02-16-2009, 11:25 PM
I am curious about what was in the article that was posted earlier..
"Miller told First Coast News he understands why Cummings wants volunteers to hold their ground, but he's only returning to Texas at the request of authorities."

The sheriff said today in the presser they did not ask TES to leave.

kellync
02-16-2009, 11:25 PM
We were never told the name. A Jeremy Miller was the one who was arrested when she was younger for abuse but he is still in jail. According to Craig R. she they showed her a picuture of someone from Tenn that is a RSO that had the same last name as her but she said that was who he was.
So your guess is as good as anyone's ..
The missing RSO is Chad Reynolds and LE is looking for him but does not feel is envolved.
Kyle Johns is RSO and lives in the neighborhood and his father is a local minister at a Baptist church and may be connected to the family but I can't remember which side.
Waldon Parson aka James Jeffery Lane aka something else that I can't recall used to live in the same trailer that Haleigg lived in as the last tennant but is now living in Tallahassee [?spelling].
Then there is a Guy Sapp but for the life of me I don't know what he has to do with it except he is a RSO also and he may be related to the Bio mothers side.

:bang: Sorry for all the imcomplete info. Best I can do. Having a hard time keeping all of this striaght.
doin pretty darn good from what I can see over here. I have read every single post since #1, and I couldnt do what you just did

Nicole_LongIsland
02-16-2009, 11:26 PM
I am a bit behind in reading. can someone tell me Misty's cousins name that molested her? I think I heard on geraldo that he molested misty but havent seen it in print. Is the cousin the missing RSO? Thanks in advance.

Leila
02-16-2009, 11:27 PM
on greta just now, said reclassified from abduction to endagered missing child??? LE says they made mistake and always should have called it that. Also, when asked why LE keeps going back to MIsty, they answered because they still don't have all the answers they want. Greta asked reporter what does that mean, reporter said LE says it's not because she ins't cooperating (she and all fam are), but too many pieces not fitting still. Huh.

I saw that, and wondered why they changed it from "missing" to "an endangered missing child."

IMO..........it's been a week since Haleigh disappeared. In that time LE has had RC and MC take polygraphs and has interviewed many of the family and extended family, and yet no one has been cleared. As of yesterday, LE was still investigating the mobile home with RC and MC staying in a tent nearby. The pond has been searched to the satisfaction of LE and cleared, and the woods in the surrounding area has been searched thoroughly. TES has pulled out and LE has scaled back the ground search.

The reporter on Greta said that LE stated, "a lot of pieces of this puzzle are missing." This makes me wonder if no one has given LE an accurate accounting of the 24 hours prior to Haleigh's disappearance. There may be hours that are missing.

It seems like we know very little more than we did a week ago, with the exception of knowing who the players are in this case.

not_my_kids
02-16-2009, 11:27 PM
I am a bit behind in reading. can someone tell me Misty's cousins name that molested her? I think I heard on geraldo that he molested misty but havent seen it in print. Is the cousin the missing RSO? Thanks in advance.

No name was ever given...and no he is not Chad Reynolds the missing SO.

MeoW333
02-16-2009, 11:28 PM
what I was trying to say if the minor child gf has a phone and is talking to 911 and daddy is heard saying in the background "where's my f'ing phone" and he knows minor child gf is using "his" phone for the call, he is spewing lies. but all this will come out because 911 has a record of what phone was used. it is either there is only 1 phone and daddy was spewing lies or there are at least 2 and minor child gf had one for the 911 call and he did not know where his was.

How was the father spewing lies? I don't understand the context of your sentence

cajun
02-16-2009, 11:28 PM
Oh my. I'm sorry, I have a problem with this. And I am well aware that there are many teen moms who are good moms, but this girl is NOT the mother of these children and was NOT married to their father. She is not their stepmother but just shacked up with a dude who happens to have children. I really find it difficult to believe she had a meaningful connection with these babies after 5 months. Not saying she hurt Hayleigh herself, but I just don't see her having the experience or sincere desire to keep them safe and sound. JMHO.

I lived with last husband six months before marrying him along with the kids, who were my step kids. they called me mom from day one, before we got married, and I always referred to them as my kids. I really don't think it's much of a big deal.

mydailyopinions
02-16-2009, 11:29 PM
Ahhh...Got cha! Sure would be nice if LE could just give a nugget of info!

I think slowly they already have been giving out nuggets of info.
They will not say if the family is cleared, yet will say they cleared the SO's..
They will not say if she was at school on Monday or not. I think this is because they don't want to share anything right now that will make the father or the gf look innocent.
They have changed her status from abducted to endangered missing.
They will not say what they took from the home.

LE knows that once they publicly say that Misty or Ron have either one failed the poly, they will obtain a lawyer and that will be the end of questioning them.
They will continue to ask them questions about Haleigh's disappearance until they have labs back or until they lawyer up.

Nicole_LongIsland
02-16-2009, 11:30 PM
No name was ever given...and no he is not Chad Reynolds the missing SO.

no name was ever provided as to who is misty's cousin? That is interesting. Did I hear Geralso correctly when he stated Misty was molsted by this SO cousin?

Thanks for answering my questions:)

djk
02-16-2009, 11:30 PM
In the 911 call dad says "give me MY efing phone". So it is obvious that she called 911 with his phone. What phone she used to call him as he pulled up in the driveway - well that we don't know. Dad said that on media interviews - that she called him - but on the police report dad says that gf was outside when he pulled up but says NOTHING about her calling him. There is also only one number listed in the police report - same number for both dad and gf - I checked it - it was a cingular cell. I have not been able to find a landline for the house and we don't know if gf had a cell or not. I'm betting not. Which makes it worse - not only did he leave her there at night alone with those two little ones and no vehicle - he left her with no phone either. Real good if there's an emergency.

i'm not real big on transcripts because i do not know if they are factual but this transcript I read on this page,
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2009/2/12/haleigh_911_transcript_part_2.html

states that at the end of the call daddy says "where's my f'ing phone"

so if that is TRUE and daddy did say that then what I said holds water, if that transcript is NOT TRUE, then what I said is incorrect. I can not stand to actually listen to that call, those 2 people, daddy and minor child gf are about the most disturbing people I have ever heard on a 911 call as far as asking for help from 911. the audio makes me want to puke, really.

MeoW333
02-16-2009, 11:30 PM
In the 911 call dad says "give me MY efing phone". So it is obvious that she called 911 with his phone. What phone she used to call him as he pulled up in the driveway - well that we don't know. Dad said that on media interviews - that she called him - but on the police report dad says that gf was outside when he pulled up but says NOTHING about her calling him. There is also only one number listed in the police report - same number for both dad and gf - I checked it - it was a cingular cell. I have not been able to find a landline for the house and we don't know if gf had a cell or not. I'm betting not. Which makes it worse - not only did he leave her there at night alone with those two little ones and no vehicle - he left her with no phone either. Real good if there's an emergency.

Swag, i agree that it's the dad's cell phone.
I'm sure Misty has a cell, too, even if it's some prepaid phone. Ron seems the type of guy to get her a phone to keep tabs on her or if he wants to call her to check on the kids.

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 11:31 PM
We were never told the name. A Jeremy Miller was the one who was arrested when she was younger for abuse but he is still in jail. According to Craig R. they? we assume LE and the GR show showed her a picuture of someone from Tenn that is a RSO that had the same last name as her but she said that was NOTwho he was.
So your guess is as good as anyone's ..
The missing RSO is Chad Reynolds and LE is looking for him but does not feel is envolved.
Kyle Johns is RSO and lives in the neighborhood and his father is a local minister at a Baptist church and may be connected to the family but I can't remember which side.
Waldon Parson aka James Jeffery Lane aka something else that I can't recall used to live in the same trailer that Haleigh lived in as the last tennant but is now living in Tallahassee [?spelling].
Then there is a Guy Sapp but for the life of me I don't know what he has to do with it except he is a RSO also and he may be related to the Bio mothers side.

:bang: Sorry for all the imcomplete info. Best I can do. Having a hard time keeping all of this striaght.
Its ok Shadow - let me try to help here with what I have:

Jeremy Miller stuff is what I have also.

The "cuz" from TN - I have NO info about him as we were given nothing but a "cuz" from TN.

Klye Johns is RSO - was listed as the one who lived the closest to the home. Father is local pastor in Baptist Church. Also CS (bio mom) - her mother - Haleigh's maternal gma - seems her maiden name is (was) Johns - and I think digging turned up pastor johns as a relative as well so that would make KJ a distant relative on bio moms side.

Walden Parsons info - I have the same but I added that the land line phone number I found was registered to him - so it must be an old number and I'm assuming no new landline to the home.

Now the Sapp people. I don't think Guy Sapp was the RSO - I could be wrong. We did find other Sapp(s). Misty's sis and BIL - the one with the nephews and van - their residence is listed on property records as Lindsey Croslin and Guy Sapp owners. I think it was Guy. So that would be relative connection to gf's family.

How's that sound? This is good - makes me go back over my notes.

cajun
02-16-2009, 11:31 PM
OT, in case you all haven't heard, 1,100 page doc dump in the "A" case coming Wednesday...

wesh.com (channel 2 Orlando)

Duct tape/fingerprint evidence results to be released. Supposed to be "not good for the defense"...

OK, back on topic - please excuse the interruption!

Thank goodness, I haven't posted much on there lately because there's been basically nothing new.

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 11:32 PM
i could be wrong, but i think they might ignore a lot of things they find and just concentrate on any charges pertaining to haleigh missing. if ron has nothing to do with haleigh missing and she turns up dead, i don't they're going to charge a grieving father with a bunch of stuff.

now if he is responsible for haleigh, they might throw the book at him with everything they can think of.
ITA - that's why I said they had an "in box" - they are just making notes and putting them aside for now. Don't wanna pizz anyone off in this small town - at least not yet.

MeoW333
02-16-2009, 11:34 PM
ITA - and I'm willing to even go as far as to say that LE (and FBI) have an "in box" where they are continuing to stack up charge over charge for person over person here. Drugs, illegal "shacking up", child negligence, more drugs, underage drinking, contributing to deliquency of a minor(s), and on and on and on. That is why I think they (LE) are being so quiet - maybe every person they look at, they find something "else" illegal and find they are going to have to charge them with.

I think by the time this is over - half the d@mn town is going to be arrested! KWIM?

I don't see them arresting half the town for different crimes, it could be likely they stumbled on some kind of child sex ring with the SO's in their families and not and are going to wait for a bust

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 11:35 PM
Actually, I never heard someone that had the same last name she did...what was said was that she gave the molester's name to LE, they showed her a picture of someone with the same last name that she gave them and she said it wasn't the same person...I could have misunderstood that one though. They weren't incredibly clear on that point.

I have yet to see a transcirpt to see which way it went but you could very well be correct. Makes a differnce if she is claiming same last name as her or not. I still don't know if anything about it is even true or his show working some hype. [I have not been happy with GR show latley so .. I will leave it at that for now.]

PinkyPoo
02-16-2009, 11:36 PM
If this was the side door where the ramp was maybe it was for someone who was in a wheelchair to grab the rope and pull open the door.


Our service dog uses a rope on the door knob to pull open the door.

kellync
02-16-2009, 11:37 PM
I think slowly they already have been giving out nuggets of info.
They will not say if the family is cleared, yet will say they cleared the SO's..
They will not say if she was at school on Monday or not. I think this is because they don't want to share anything right now that will make the father or the gf look innocent.
They have changed her status from abducted to endangered missing.
They will not say what they took from the home.

LE knows that once they publicly say that Misty or Ron have either one failed the poly, they will obtain a lawyer and that will be the end of questioning them.
They will continue to ask them questions about Haleigh's disappearance until they have labs back or until they lawyer up.
:dance::bananapartyhat::detective::thumb: Hows that? I think you win the top prize. You read my mind, thats for sure. I hope something happens soon, I have been ignoring my family for the most part, I am just so fascinated by the dynamics of the players involved here.

djk
02-16-2009, 11:40 PM
How was the father spewing lies? I don't understand the context of your sentence

he seems to be looking for a phone that he knows is in the hands of his minor child gf. acting like he is not aware of the location of his phone.

amysmom
02-16-2009, 11:40 PM
I am curious about what was in the article that was posted earlier..
"Miller told First Coast News he understands why Cummings wants volunteers to hold their ground, but he's only returning to Texas at the request of authorities."

The sheriff said today in the presser they did not ask TES to leave.

That IS what both said :confused:

cajun
02-16-2009, 11:41 PM
I am a bit behind in reading. can someone tell me Misty's cousins name that molested her? I think I heard on geraldo that he molested misty but havent seen it in print. Is the cousin the missing RSO? Thanks in advance.

we don't know for sure. there was charges filed against Jeremy Miller in 05 for doing something to Misty, which would have made her the right age of 13. No one is positive if this is the cousin because Jeremy is still in jail.

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 11:42 PM
Its ok Shadow - let me try to help here with what I have:

Jeremy Miller stuff is what I have also.

The "cuz" from TN - I have NO info about him as we were given nothing but a "cuz" from TN.

Klye Johns is RSO - was listed as the one who lived the closest to the home. Father is local pastor in Baptist Church. Also CS (bio mom) - her mother - Haleigh's maternal gma - seems her maiden name is (was) Johns - and I think digging turned up pastor johns as a relative as well so that would make KJ a distant relative on bio moms side.

Walden Parsons info - I have the same but I added that the land line phone number I found was registered to him - so it must be an old number and I'm assuming no new landline to the home.

Now the Sapp people. I don't think Guy Sapp was the RSO - I could be wrong. We did find other Sapp(s). Misty's sis and BIL - the one with the nephews and van - their residence is listed on property records as Lindsey Croslin and Guy Sapp owners. I think it was Guy. So that would be relative connection to gf's family.

How's that sound? This is good - makes me go back over my notes.

Thanks....I'm going to have to read up on the Sapp person. That were I'm shakey on the details.
Something do with selling mobil homes too Right?

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 11:43 PM
Thanks....I'm going to have to read up on the Sapp person. That were I'm shakey on the details.
Something do with selling mobil homes too Right?
No - wasn't he the scumy landlord that rents to the RSO's?

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 11:47 PM
No - wasn't he the scumy landlord that rents to the RSO's?

Maybe but the landlord that rents to Kyle Johns and Ron C now which would have been that Waldon Parson aka Lane RSO is Donal Bard. He also lives in PA. I checked and can not find a thing on him. So there is a possibilty that this Sapp dude does the same thing. Lower than scum in my book. How about worm sweat.

PinkyPoo
02-16-2009, 11:47 PM
What is the differance between a 'Endangered Child' vs a 'Missing Child'?

Brwnigirl
02-16-2009, 11:48 PM
Help I'm new and it will take awhile for me to get caught up but can anyone answer these questions? Sorry if they've already been posted.

1. I know that LE released the fact that CPS has been out to the house involving both Dad and Misty, but no police attended. Do we know why? Not sure about Florida but where I am from, these means chronic neglect..school calling over absenteeism, lack of food, or neighbors reporting poor parental supervision, kids not picked up ect, but not sexual or physical involvement or the police would have been called. Would be interesting to know if any of these reports involved the kids not being supervised or left out in the trailor park.

2. I read somewhere else, sorry no link, this was b/f I thought about joining this board, that the night before Hayleigh went missing, her dad had just found Misty after a 3 day bender and gotten her back to look after the kids and that both parents had gang affiliation because of drug inv.
Has anyone else heard or seen this reported?

3. Does anyone know anything in detail about the circumstances where Hayleigh was found face down in a canal? Who was in charge of her that day?

Sorry if this is repetitive!!

Dani_md
02-16-2009, 11:48 PM
he seems to be looking for a phone that he knows is in the hands of his minor child gf. acting like he is not aware of the location of his phone.


Maybe Misty was in the hallway and he was in the kitchen. He may have been getting impatient so started going toward hallway saying where's my ****ing phone, so that she could give him the phone and he could call his parents. Not neccesairly means that he didn't know where it was just that he wasn't next to her and he wanted her to hand it over.

NRN
02-16-2009, 11:49 PM
Actually, I never heard someone that had the same last name she did...what was said was that she gave the molester's name to LE, they showed her a picture of someone with the same last name that she gave them and she said it wasn't the same person...I could have misunderstood that one though. They weren't incredibly clear on that point.

What? And they've been so clear on everything else......NOT:mad:

catch_22
02-16-2009, 11:49 PM
i'm not real big on transcripts because i do not know if they are factual but this transcript I read on this page,
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2009/2/12/haleigh_911_transcript_part_2.html

states that at the end of the call daddy says "where's my f'ing phone"

so if that is TRUE and daddy did say that then what I said holds water, if that transcript is NOT TRUE, then what I said is incorrect. I can not stand to actually listen to that call, those 2 people, daddy and minor child gf are about the most disturbing people I have ever heard on a 911 call as far as asking for help from 911. the audio makes me want to puke, really.

i just listened to it. it's a bit muffled so i couldn't tell for sure, but i'm pretty sure that he says, "give me my fn phone."

s1rebecca
02-16-2009, 11:50 PM
This morning my husband was leaving for work and went to give our son a kiss before he left which he always does he goes to his bed he's not there he comes back to our room to check the couch because sometimes he comes in our room in the middle of the night he's not on the couch so he starts to panic and wakes me. Where's christopher I am asleep but jump up and start looking don't see him on the couch don't see him in bed so go to daughters room and ask is christopher with you she says yes I say where I don't see him she says in the chair I look over and see him asleep in the pappazon chair. I was so releived. We all went to bed around 10 and they decided to watch the lion king and he fell asleep in her room which rarely happens because my daughter is 17 and my son is 7 they haven't spent time like that together in years. They were off school for presidents day. I was so releived when I saw him sleeping in that chair,I just can't imagine what these folks are going through I felt very blessed today. Sorry for the long post but I was terrified for about 30 seconds thank god that was all.

catch_22
02-16-2009, 11:56 PM
This morning my husband was leaving for work and went to give our son a kiss before he left which he always does he goes to his bed he's not there he comes back to our room to check the couch because sometimes he comes in our room in the middle of the night he's not on the couch so he starts to panic and wakes me. Where's christopher I am asleep but jump up and start looking don't see him on the couch don't see him in bed so go to daughters room and ask is christopher with you she says yes I say where I don't see him she says in the chair I look over and see him asleep in the pappazon chair. I was so releived. We all went to bed around 10 and they decided to watch the lion king and he fell asleep in her room which rarely happens because my daughter is 17 and my son is 7 they haven't spent time like that together in years. They were off school for presidents day. I was so releived when I saw him sleeping in that chair,I just can't imagine what these folks are going through I felt very blessed today. Sorry for the long post but I was terrified for about 30 seconds thank god that was all.

why didn't you call 911 right away? something is not right here. j/k. that is a horrible feeling.

SuziQ
02-16-2009, 11:56 PM
Once again I'm trying to catch up with y'all. So the case is now classified as Missing Endangered? IMO, that means LE has not found any evidence of an abduction and lack of evidence of death would only leave Missing Endangered. JMO of course.

shadow of my mind
02-16-2009, 11:57 PM
Night everybody. Praying for Haleigh

Wise Old Owl
02-16-2009, 11:57 PM
This morning my husband was leaving for work and went to give our son a kiss before he left which he always does he goes to his bed he's not there he comes back to our room to check the couch because sometimes he comes in our room in the middle of the night he's not on the couch so he starts to panic and wakes me. Where's christopher I am asleep but jump up and start looking don't see him on the couch don't see him in bed so go to daughters room and ask is christopher with you she says yes I say where I don't see him she says in the chair I look over and see him asleep in the pappazon chair. I was so releived. We all went to bed around 10 and they decided to watch the lion king and he fell asleep in her room which rarely happens because my daughter is 17 and my son is 7 they haven't spent time like that together in years. They were off school for presidents day. I was so releived when I saw him sleeping in that chair,I just can't imagine what these folks are going through I felt very blessed today. Sorry for the long post but I was terrified for about 30 seconds thank god that was all.
I can relate to that story. Well not in the past 7-8 years since they have gotten older. I used to call my house - musical beds. Oldest would come get in bed with us - push dad outta bed - he'd go to couch - but youngest would be on couch so he'd go to her bed. I never knew who was going to be where when I got up in the morning! I got used to just checking the entire house. Never panicked because we had an alarm wired to all windows and doors - and that thing was LOUD!!! But when my kids were little it was an adventure every night and like a scavenger hunt every morning. lol

ladonna
02-16-2009, 11:58 PM
Speaking of Karl Johns.

I hope I don't get in trouble for this but I couldnt bring it over without the actual post. I'm not that adept with comp. stiff/ There is some info on here that Crystal 's mother was a Johns.


http://*************.net/index.php?topic=4523.msg675680#msg675680

WillenFan21
02-16-2009, 11:59 PM
I just thought of something...

If Misty's cousin is the one that abudcted Haleigh then I just had thought about the door etc. There was a report on one of the news shows a couple days ago that the front door was open as well as the backdoor. What if Misty's cousin the one that did stuff her when she was a child tried to pin this on Misty?

My Theory on how this could have went down making everything else make sense -

The cousin parks his vehicle near the train tracks(ONLY IF THIS IS POSSIBLE) then walks to the Cummings house getting the brick on the way there. He goes in through the front door making his way into the kitchen and turning the light on goes to the backdoor, opens it up and then props the brick there. He then makes his way to the bedroom and gets Haleigh who wakes up and willingly goes with him since she knew him. They walk into the woods, go near the pond to try and make people think she fell in or her body was dumped there, and they then leave the pond making their way back to his vehicle at the train tracks.

This could explain why her scent was no longer there, the trail of scent to the pond, and would explain the brick there at the home. Maybe he was trying to pin this all on Misty.

MeoW333
02-17-2009, 12:00 AM
he seems to be looking for a phone that he knows is in the hands of his minor child gf. acting like he is not aware of the location of his phone.

In his state of mind then and there he wasn't thinking clearly at all

Fairy1
02-17-2009, 12:02 AM
I lived with last husband six months before marrying him along with the kids, who were my step kids. they called me mom from day one, before we got married, and I always referred to them as my kids. I really don't think it's much of a big deal.

Were you 16?

momtective
02-17-2009, 12:03 AM
Its ok Shadow - let me try to help here with what I have:

Jeremy Miller stuff is what I have also.

The "cuz" from TN - I have NO info about him as we were given nothing but a "cuz" from TN.

Klye Johns is RSO - was listed as the one who lived the closest to the home. Father is local pastor in Baptist Church. Also CS (bio mom) - her mother - Haleigh's maternal gma - seems her maiden name is (was) Johns - and I think digging turned up pastor johns as a relative as well so that would make KJ a distant relative on bio moms side.

Walden Parsons info - I have the same but I added that the land line phone number I found was registered to him - so it must be an old number and I'm assuming no new landline to the home.

Now the Sapp people. I don't think Guy Sapp was the RSO - I could be wrong. We did find other Sapp(s). Misty's sis and BIL - the one with the nephews and van - their residence is listed on property records as Lindsey Croslin and Guy Sapp owners. I think it was Guy. So that would be relative connection to gf's family.

How's that sound? This is good - makes me go back over my notes.

I posted a list of family names earlier in this thread. Went sleuthing and came up with this http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=Carman
Could be something...could be nothing.:waitasec:

beckaroozie
02-17-2009, 12:03 AM
I am curious about what was in the article that was posted earlier..
"Miller told First Coast News he understands why Cummings wants volunteers to hold their ground, but he's only returning to Texas at the request of authorities."

The sheriff said today in the presser they did not ask TES to leave.

Maybe at the request of the TEXAS authorities? They had another missing person search request? That's what I understood anyway.

SuziQ
02-17-2009, 12:03 AM
I am curious about what was in the article that was posted earlier..
"Miller told First Coast News he understands why Cummings wants volunteers to hold their ground, but he's only returning to Texas at the request of authorities."

The sheriff said today in the presser they did not ask TES to leave.

I'm thinking TM wasn't supposed to say he was asked to leave. I'm thinking LE has someone in their sites and that they no longer consider this an abduction but foul play.

Leila
02-17-2009, 12:04 AM
Nothing major, but on Bill O'Reilly tonight he had Monica Crowley to give an update on this case. Her brief synopsis was that "the 17-year old girlfriend has a LOT of inconsistencies." She said that in her opinion, local LE is zeroing in on the family. Another woman, Margaret Hoover, mentioned the 44 SOs in the area and said we need to adopt a zero tolerance for SOs and lock them up.

momtective
02-17-2009, 12:05 AM
I posted a list of family names earlier in this thread. Went sleuthing and came up with this http://www.ticic.state.tn.us/sorinternet/SOFind.aspx?strhold=n=Carman
Could be something...could be nothing.:waitasec:

hummm...there was a pic on that link and it just disappeared. Now it shows a broken link.:mad:

NRN
02-17-2009, 12:09 AM
This morning my husband was leaving for work and went to give our son a kiss before he left which he always does he goes to his bed he's not there he comes back to our room to check the couch because sometimes he comes in our room in the middle of the night he's not on the couch so he starts to panic and wakes me. Where's christopher I am asleep but jump up and start looking don't see him on the couch don't see him in bed so go to daughters room and ask is christopher with you she says yes I say where I don't see him she says in the chair I look over and see him asleep in the pappazon chair. I was so releived. We all went to bed around 10 and they decided to watch the lion king and he fell asleep in her room which rarely happens because my daughter is 17 and my son is 7 they haven't spent time like that together in years. They were off school for presidents day. I was so releived when I saw him sleeping in that chair,I just can't imagine what these folks are going through I felt very blessed today. Sorry for the long post but I was terrified for about 30 seconds thank god that was all.

You reacted like normal parents would. (a few new gray hairs but thank God he's ok, right!) I have not heard Misty & Ron mentioning checking on Jr., waking him up & asking if he heard anything, etc. The omission is strange. I mean he only just turned 4, but you'd think Ron or Misty would have added "We asked Jr. & he said he didn't see or hear anything, either." I know I'd be on Greta & Nancy & Geraldo going "I didn't see or hear anything, he didn't see or hear anything, the preschooler didn't see or hear anything, the dog didn't see or hear anything. That's it! For G***'s sake, people, we didn't do it! Now, please would everybody stop wasting time and get busy and help us find our darling little girl?!"

catch_22
02-17-2009, 12:10 AM
I'm thinking TM wasn't supposed to say he was asked to leave. I'm thinking LE has someone in their sites and that they no longer consider this an abduction but foul play.

an abduction isn't foul play? j/k. i'm wondering if they have found the body but are still building a case. my best guess has misty being involved and i noticed that the big search today was right off the highway between ron's house and daytona beach (where misty used to live). a route i assume she is familiar with, but ten or so miles from ron's house (knowing searches would be centered around ron's house). (i'm assuming hwy 17 or whatever it was is the route you would take to daytona beach.)

Brwnigirl
02-17-2009, 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catch_22
i think LE is either totally clueless about this case or they know a lot and are building a case and will arrest someone(s) fairly soon. one extreme or another......

I think there is more and what kind of issues did CPS have to come out on on more than one occasion when Misty and Ron were only together for 5 months. If Ron was the one watching Hayleigh when she ended up in the water and Misty and Ron were known for not watching the kids, this was an abduction waiting to happen.
I hope that's not true.

DotsEyes
02-17-2009, 12:13 AM
MC's blanket "was in the van that they took". There was a blanket covering a window (RC sleeps during the day since he works nights) and Haleigh's blanket smelled like pee pee. It was time to put the kids to bed. There were not enough clean blankets for all 3 of them, so MC covered at least Haleigh with a sheet (probably Jr. too, but since it wasn't stated any where, I didn't want to start a tangential argument) and washed both blankets, the one from the window and the pee pee blanket. The blankets were ready at 10:00p-ish and MC put a blanket on Haleigh.

So far, MC sounds like a decent little caretaker to me.

Nothing covering the bedroom window. Haleigh is asleep in front of the television and the tv is on for at least 2 hours before the blanket is dry. The dryer, if they have one, is at the back door. Does this door have a window?

Anyone watching the house would see the child/children asleep by peeking through the window and see or even hear MC doing laundry. Dryers vent to the outside and it is easy to tell when someone is using the dryer.

MC said that the rear door is rarely used - to take out the garbage or the vacuum to vacuum the car. Maybe she took out the garbage and forgot to re-lock the door, or physically could not lock it herself. Something tells me they do not leave the house to smoke, so MC taking a smoke break outside isn't on my list of probabilities. She may be terrified to admit to RC that she "may" have not locked the door after putting out the trash. It should be easy to tell if the trash was just put outside. The trash cans in the house will be empty.

However, forgetting to re-lock, or being unable to re-lock one of the 2 door locks doesn't make her a suspect to me.

As for the rope on the door handle. IIRC thiis door has handicap access, with a ramp to the back door. A rope would be used by someone in a wheel chair to open the screen door (which swings out). They would have to roll up to the door, grab the rope, and roll backwards to open it and then hold it open and roll to the regular door. ( Maybe this is the landlord's compliance with ADA - JUST KIDDING!) More than likely a left over from a former tenant for whom the ramp was built. Or as another poster said, to keep the screen door from banging around in the wind.

I just read the interview with GVS. They gave slightly different descriptions of the details of what happened, as in which event happened when. MC states that she woke, went to pee, saw the kitchen light, then the open door, went to the bedroom where the kids were sleeping and Haleigh was not there. RC states that MC told him she woke up, noticed Haleigh wasn't in her bed, searched for her and found the kitchen light on and the back door open. Because they both speak out of sequence a lot, and I only read the transcipt and can not judge the voice inflection, the facial expressions, the emotion of the tones, I think this was just poor commuication skills. These are just regular people who have led lives of quiet desperation. They can not be faulted for poor verbal skills. They do not appear to be devious people to me at all.

I am glad that the bio-mom and grandma especially have put aside their own petty grievances of the past and have united with ALL the family in the search for Haleigh. Grandma showed a lot of class when she issued a public apology after smearing RC and MC as much as she did. Plus, neither of them can complain too much about 17 year olds and babies, bio-mom was once a 17 year old mom herself and at 19 "lost" Haleigh at the bottom of a canal, nearly killing her.

I thought bio-mom had just returned the kids from her visitation weekend on Sunday at 6pm. Then, Haleigh is taken Monday night/early Tuesday morning and there was a hearing set for Tuesday regarding an issue with the children? All this in a neighborhood full of SO's and a predophile cousin coming for a visit and stealing a gun.



Life is complicated when it is dissected.

cajun
02-17-2009, 12:13 AM
Were you 16?
No, early 20s and I also had no "mothering skills", just learned and made lots of mistakes along way.

LaLaw2000
02-17-2009, 12:14 AM
What is the differance between a 'Endangered Child' vs a 'Missing Child'?

I do not know for a fact, but I would expect that it may be due to her health and she may have had to take the Human Growth Hormone injections at intervals. Also could be her age has something to do with it. After all, there is no proof that Haleigh has been kidnapped, abducted, or has run away. So she really is an endangered missing child. JMO

not_my_kids
02-17-2009, 12:16 AM
You reacted like normal parents would. (a few new gray hairs but thank God he's ok, right!) I have not heard Misty & Ron mentioning checking on Jr., waking him up & asking if he heard anything, etc. The omission is strange. I mean he only just turned 4, but you'd think Ron or Misty would have added "We asked Jr. & he said he didn't see or hear anything, either." I know I'd be on Greta & Nancy & Geraldo going "I didn't see or hear anything, he didn't see or hear anything, the preschooler didn't see or hear anything, the dog didn't see or hear anything. That's it! For G***'s sake, people, we didn't do it! Now, please would everybody stop wasting time and get busy and help us find our darling little girl?!"

That is the only thing that concerns me about Ron, you would think the good father would go running to the first possible witness (Misty). WHen first witness has nothing, you move to the second, (RJ). You are right, there is no mention of waking RJ, taking him somewhere safe, asking him where his sister is.
It also makes me wonder if RJ slept through all the screaming of the 911 call. Usually with little kids, if their parents are that upset, they are upset, even if they don't know why. But we don't hear RJ crying in the background in that tape.
If I came home and one of my kids were missing, the other one would be in my arms until i knew that they weren't going to disappear too. It would be instinct.
I really don't want to start doubting Ron, but it's getting harder not to the more time I have to think about it.

WillenFan21
02-17-2009, 12:16 AM
I really don't think that Ron had anything to do with this. If he was at work that night then he would have people that could back him on that. He might even have to clock out of the place when he leaves which would also give them proof. I know that those two have past record and that so does the bio mom but I really don't the father or bio mom had anything to do with this. The biomom is way to broken up about it just like the father is. JMO

MeoW333
02-17-2009, 12:16 AM
why do people keep saying "minor child gf"?
Just say Misty.

They either missed or forgot about the posts 13 threads back where people got tired of hearing about Ron having an underage gf; as their minor child gf relationship is not relevant to finding Haleigh.

Leila
02-17-2009, 12:17 AM
Speaking of Karl Johns.

I hope I don't get in trouble for this but I couldnt bring it over without the actual post. I'm not that adept with comp. stiff/ There is some info on here that Crystal 's mother was a Johns.


http://*************.net/index.php?topic=4523.msg675680#msg675680

LOL.............I found the marriage record a few days ago and posted it here. Evidently someone at SM picked it up from this forum. :)

Crystal's mother was Nancy Marie Johns. She married first, Johnny Marcus Sheffield, and then Bruce A. Griffis.

On the marriage record, the witnesses were Virgil Johns junior and Marilyn C. Johns.

I believe Virgil Johns is the father of Nancy Marie Griffis (maiden name Johns) as I found a deed in Baker County in which Virgil Johns gave land to Nancy M. Griffis for the sum of "love and affection" instead of a dollar amount. This usually denotes a family relationship in which land is given and not sold.

I also found the marriage of Virgil Johns and Marilyn C. Johns, and he was born in 1944, she in 1953. They were married in 1994 when Nancy M. was 29 years old. I think Marilyn C. Johns is a second wife. Virgil would have been 21 when his daughter was born.

debs
02-17-2009, 12:17 AM
Okay, I'm hoping to catch up. I have a couple questions.

1. Misty says she put the kids to bed at 8 because Haleigh goes to school in the morning. Where does little Ron go?

2. Everyone is focusing on the back door being blocked open as an entry point. What about the front door?

cajun
02-17-2009, 12:17 AM
Maybe at the request of the TEXAS authorities? They had another missing person search request? That's what I understood anyway.

That could be. I haven't heard of a missing person case besides the one in Pearland and Tim didn't do the search for her, another Houston based search team did...

not_my_kids
02-17-2009, 12:18 AM
an abduction isn't foul play? j/k. i'm wondering if they have found the body but are still building a case. my best guess has misty being involved and i noticed that the big search today was right off the highway between ron's house and daytona beach (where misty used to live). a route i assume she is familiar with, but ten or so miles from ron's house (knowing searches would be centered around ron's house). (i'm assuming hwy 17 or whatever it was is the route you would take to daytona beach.)

If they have a body, next of kin must be notified immediately. I don't think that has happened.

txsvicki
02-17-2009, 12:22 AM
If Misty did do something to or with Hayleigh, if there was no other vehicle at home, then she must have gotten some help. The dogs stopped by the train tracks. Unless it's like Caylee's case and the area really wasn't thoroughly searched, then Hayleigh was taken away in a vehicle.

cheko1
02-17-2009, 12:25 AM
misty has an old myspace, no friends, and on Sept 12, she was single. Her and Ron must have "gotten together" really fast, like 5 months to the day almost..http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=412920159


Did you notice she has it put in that she is a Gemini... if thats the case her birthday is not in December... it would be between May 22 & June 22 I think is the change over.

cajun
02-17-2009, 12:26 AM
Deputies Back in Haleigh's Neighborhood


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SATSUMA, FL -- Donald Bard remembers the phone call early last Tuesday morning that woke him up.

His wife Phyllis answered the call.

"We were sleeping and then we received a phone call, the automated phone call that Haleigh Cummings was missing in our neighborhood," said Phyllis Bard.

The Bard's recognized the name right away.

"The home where Haleigh was taken from belonged to my parents," said Phyllis.

It sits right next door to her own home, and Phyllis began renting it out a few years ago after her father died of diabetes complications and her mother died in a car crash 80 days later.

The Bard's first met Haleigh's father, Ron Cummings, last August.

Phyllis says, "They first moved next door to us, and then they needed a bedroom for each of the children he said, and so he asked to rent that house and we rented that to him in November."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=131483&catid=3

Glitterflits
02-17-2009, 12:26 AM
What is the differance between a 'Endangered Child' vs a 'Missing Child'?

I think a "missing child" is one that the whereabouts are not known either from wandering or running away or even possible abduction by a noncustodial parent. One that LE doesn't necessarily think is in immediate danger. An "endangered child" would most likely be a child that is abducted by a stranger or that has been missing without their whereabouts being know long enough and LE feels they are subject to or have been a victim of a crime. Younger children would most likely be considered endangered sooner since they are not capable of caring for themselves... I think ALL missing children should be considered endangered...even if they are runaways. JMHO

cajun
02-17-2009, 12:29 AM
Phyllis says, "They first moved next door to us, and then they needed a bedroom for each of the children he said, and so he asked to rent that house and we rented that to him in November."

So they lived in another mobile in the same neighborhood before the 212 green lane one?

Truthwillsetufree
02-17-2009, 12:29 AM
:clap:You reacted like normal parents would. (a few new gray hairs but thank God he's ok, right!) I have not heard Misty & Ron mentioning checking on Jr., waking him up & asking if he heard anything, etc. The omission is strange. I mean he only just turned 4, but you'd think Ron or Misty would have added "We asked Jr. & he said he didn't see or hear anything, either." I know I'd be on Greta & Nancy & Geraldo going "I didn't see or hear anything, he didn't see or hear anything, the preschooler didn't see or hear anything, the dog didn't see or hear anything. That's it! For G***'s sake, people, we didn't do it! Now, please would everybody stop wasting time and get busy and help us find our darling little girl?!"

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

WillenFan21
02-17-2009, 12:32 AM
OMG. IDK if this is anything to be looking into but are we are absolutely sure that Misty is really 17 years old? I looked her up on PeekYou.com and her age listed is "19" and I know it is Misty b.c it has her picture and the location as Satsuma.

http://www.peekyou.com/Misty_Croslin/

Fairy1
02-17-2009, 12:34 AM
No, early 20s and I also had no "mothering skills", just learned and made lots of mistakes along way.

Well, we all do - even if they are our own babies. My point is, this girl is just barely 17 and has been with the father for a total of 5 months - the majority of which they have been living together it would seem. I just don't see her being that close to these children and I see it more as her "playing house" and him using her to take care of his children. Then again, they do seem to be presenting a united front now. But I do see him as very controlling and her being afraid of him or afraid to lose him. Just sayin'.....if my husband ever called me a dumb bitc*, it would be the last words he ever spoke. Yet she is very much with him. Just cannot relate to that at all.

catch_22
02-17-2009, 12:34 AM
If they have a body, next of kin must be notified immediately. I don't think that has happened.

i did not know that.

that is weird, wild stuff.

kellync
02-17-2009, 12:35 AM
Did you notice she has it put in that she is a Gemini... if thats the case her birthday is not in December... it would be between May 22 & June 22 I think is the change over.
yes, strange......

Phyllis says, "They first moved next door to us, and then they needed a bedroom for each of the children he said, and so he asked to rent that house and we rented that to him in November."

So they lived in another mobile in the same neighborhood before the 212 green lane one?
hmmmmm..Cajun, you're on a roll tonight

kellync
02-17-2009, 12:36 AM
OMG. IDK if this is anything to be looking into but are we are absolutely sure that Misty is really 17 years old? I looked her up on PeekYou.com and her age listed is "19" and I know it is Misty b.c it has her picture and the location as Satsuma.

http://www.peekyou.com/Misty_Croslin/
On peek you, that is a copy of her earlier myspace page, so she could put 80 years old on her profile if she wanted.

ElementaryDearWatson
02-17-2009, 12:38 AM
I think it is possible for one of the people (Misty's brother, one of her nephews or the Ac repairman) that had been to the home earlier in the evening to have unlocked the door, unknown to Misty. Ron would have checked that the door was locked before he went to work at about 3 pm. The "vistors" did not arrive until 5 pm. I think the back door was the entry point. The brick was used to hold open the door so that it would not close behind the perp and make a noise that could possibly wake someone. They could have quietly crept into the room, snatched Haleigh and left the same way they came in. JMO

WillenFan21
02-17-2009, 12:38 AM
On peek you, that is a copy of her earlier myspace page, so she could put 80 years old on her profile if she wanted.

So thats why the age was entered in there?

Truthwillsetufree
02-17-2009, 12:39 AM
That is the only thing that concerns me about Ron, you would think the good father would go running to the first possible witness (Misty). WHen first witness has nothing, you move to the second, (RJ). You are right, there is no mention of waking RJ, taking him somewhere safe, asking him where his sister is.
It also makes me wonder if RJ slept through all the screaming of the 911 call. Usually with little kids, if their parents are that upset, they are upset, even if they don't know why. But we don't hear RJ crying in the background in that tape.
If I came home and one of my kids were missing, the other one would be in my arms until i knew that they weren't going to disappear too. It would be instinct.
I really don't want to start doubting Ron, but it's getting harder not to the more time I have to think about it.

Yes, during a family crisis, no matter what it was, looking back, even when we were quiet, like a phone call in the middle of the night a family member died, the kids would inevitably wake up, one of the older kids missed a curfew, younger kids woke up, sister sick in the middle of the night, the others had to get up to see what was going on. Mine all had their own rooms and slept with their doors shut most of the time so maybe JR did wake up it just hasn't been mentioned.

kellync
02-17-2009, 12:41 AM
So thats why the age was entered in there?
yeah, it was taken right from her myspace, so was the picture. It is an older profile, no friends on her profile, and she could put any age, and the Peekyou would just show what it "knows" not necessarily the truth. aaah, the joys of the internet..

Truthwillsetufree
02-17-2009, 12:42 AM
I really don't think that Ron had anything to do with this. If he was at work that night then he would have people that could back him on that. He might even have to clock out of the place when he leaves which would also give them proof. I know that those two have past record and that so does the bio mom but I really don't the father or bio mom had anything to do with this. The biomom is way to broken up about it just like the father is. JMO

Really? I haven't seen that she is all that broken up by it. I mean I am not one to cry in public and she may not be either but really I haven't seen that much emotion from Biomom at all. Matter of fact I have seen indifference. She tries to cry but the tears just wont come. JMO.

ROBLYN
02-17-2009, 12:42 AM
Phyllis says, "They first moved next door to us, and then they needed a bedroom for each of the children he said, and so he asked to rent that house and we rented that to him in November."

So they lived in another mobile in the same neighborhood before the 212 green lane one?

That is new "News" to me. Interesting??? Wonder where they lived first? In the same park?

kellync
02-17-2009, 12:45 AM
http://www.whitepages.com/16176/track/10215/search/Replay?search_id=20131311167826184942&lower=1&more_info=1

not sure this has been posted, or if it is even relevant

WillenFan21
02-17-2009, 12:46 AM
I think it is possible for one of the people (Misty's brother, one of her nephews or the Ac repairman) that had been to the home earlier in the evening to have unlocked the door, unknown to Misty. Ron would have checked that the door was locked before he went to work at about 3 pm. The "vistors" did not arrive until 5 pm. I think the back door was the entry point. The brick was used to hold open the door so that it would not close behind the perp and make a noise that could possibly wake someone. They could have quietly crept into the room, snatched Haleigh and left the same way they came in. JMO

I am convinced that whoever took and did something to Haleigh that it was someone she knew. I think she was alive and walked to the pond and to the end of those tracks hence the reason why her scent stopped at the end of them. I think whoever it was that had her made her walk there and the fact that she KNEW them explains why she would have willingly went with them and didn't make a noise. They could have easily lied to her to get her to go with them if it was someone she knew and I have though since the day this news broke Haleigh knew whoever it was that took her and that this person knew their way around that house. It also explains why they knew exactly what room to go to and why they got out of that place with no one in the house knowing.

The POI could have parked his/her vehicle near the train tracks(ONLY IF THIS IS POSSIBLE) then walked to the Cummings house getting the brick on the way there so that they could use it to get Haleigh out of their faster. They then go in through the front door making their way into the kitchen and turning the light on. After doing that they go to the backdoor, open it up and then prop the brick there. They then make their way to the bedroom to get Haleigh who wakes up and willingly goes with them since she knew whoever it was. They walk into the woods, go near the pond to try and make people think she fell in or her body was dumped there, and they then leave the pond making their way back to the vehicle at the train tracks. While walking back to the vehicle they could have been lying to Haleigh all along about where they were going and why they were there.

This could explain why her scent was no longer there, the trail of scent to the pond, and would explain the brick there at the home.

Razzle
02-17-2009, 12:46 AM
I am trying to follow this but you all are posting to much too quickly!!

My main question right now is about the school truancy. I keep reading that supposedly the father was being threatened with jail time because she had missed so much school. Is there verification of that? It sounds kinda hinky considering that Haleigh was only 5 and not yet required by Florida law to be in school. :waitasec:

I am curious to know:

1 WAS she missing a lot of school? If so, was it consecutive days or just random?

2 WAS Dad in trouble as a result of her missing school?

catch_22
02-17-2009, 12:50 AM
Deputies Back in Haleigh's Neighborhood


Posted By: Lindy Thackston (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/inside/thackston_lindy.asp) http://www.firstcoastnews.com/graphics/bullet1.gif Created: 2/16/2009 8:04:40 PM http://www.firstcoastnews.com/graphics/bullet1.gif Updated: 2/17/2009 12:19:40 AM


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SATSUMA, FL -- Donald Bard remembers the phone call early last Tuesday morning that woke him up.

His wife Phyllis answered the call.

"We were sleeping and then we received a phone call, the automated phone call that Haleigh Cummings was missing in our neighborhood," said Phyllis Bard.

The Bard's recognized the name right away.

"The home where Haleigh was taken from belonged to my parents," said Phyllis.

It sits right next door to her own home, and Phyllis began renting it out a few years ago after her father died of diabetes complications and her mother died in a car crash 80 days later.

The Bard's first met Haleigh's father, Ron Cummings, last August.

Phyllis says, "They first moved next door to us, and then they needed a bedroom for each of the children he said, and so he asked to rent that house and we rented that to him in November."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=131483&catid=3

i think this is just another case of bad reporting or poor communication skills. unless both houses are right next door to hers which i guess is possible, but i doubt it.

LaLaw2000
02-17-2009, 12:51 AM
Help I'm new and it will take awhile for me to get caught up but can anyone answer these questions? Sorry if they've already been posted.

1. I know that LE released the fact that CPS has been out to the house involving both Dad and Misty, but no police attended. Do we know why? Not sure about Florida but where I am from, these means chronic neglect..school calling over absenteeism, lack of food, or neighbors reporting poor parental supervision, kids not picked up ect, but not sexual or physical involvement or the police would have been called. Would be interesting to know if any of these reports involved the kids not being supervised or left out in the trailor park.

2. I read somewhere else, sorry no link, this was b/f I thought about joining this board, that the night before Hayleigh went missing, her dad had just found Misty after a 3 day bender and gotten her back to look after the kids and that both parents had gang affiliation because of drug inv.
Has anyone else heard or seen this reported?

3. Does anyone know anything in detail about the circumstances where Hayleigh was found face down in a canal? Who was in charge of her that day?

Sorry if this is repetitive!!

1.) I do not believe there has been an explanation as to why CPS had been to the home. BUT, I would like to know if there was a proper amount of nutritious food in the house, milk, eggs, and so forth. I also would think that CPS would question why there were mattresses on the floor rather than proper beds for the children. Were there clean clothes for the children? Just a number of things that would need to be looked at if CPS had come for a visit in response to a complaint from anyone. Could Haleigh have been falling asleep at school, come to school with dirty clothes, smelling like urine, etc.? Did she say anything at school to the teacher that would cause the teacher to wonder about Haleighs home life? Very frequent absences? May not have been the teacher at all, but it had to be in response to someone having called in. JMO.

2.) Not heard anything about this rumor at all.

3.) Haleigh's biological Mom, Crystal, had made the allegation that Ronald had been supposed to keeping an eye on Haleigh while she was putting the baby, Ronald Jr., in his carseat. She had come to get the children for a visit. She said that Ronald did not know where Hayleigh was and that she had located Haleigh face down in the canal by his Mother's house. She purportedly said that she had to save Haleigh's life. I do not believe this for one moment. 911, nor police were called. There is no documentation of this incident.
Plus, supposedly, even though Crystal had pulled Haleigh from having been face down in the canal, Haleigh had no health issues from it. No water in her little lungs? No cold afterwards? This is so unreal!

4.) Fact: This whole thing is making me goofy! :crazy:

moonlighting
02-17-2009, 12:53 AM
That is new "News" to me. Interesting??? Wonder where they lived first? In the same park?

Phyllis Bard's husband is the one who owns several properties in the neighborhood, and rents them to SO's, including Kyle J.

Ron may have trouble renting, too, with his record

I think PB's husband is building his own kind of "good old boy's club" in the area.

not_my_kids
02-17-2009, 12:56 AM
Really? I haven't seen that she is all that broken up by it. I mean I am not one to cry in public and she may not be either but really I haven't seen that much emotion from Biomom at all. Matter of fact I have seen indifference. She tries to cry but the tears just wont come. JMO.


I share your opinion. That woman is a robot.

Dr. Know?
02-17-2009, 12:58 AM
Well, we all do - even if they are our own babies. My point is, this girl is just barely 17 and has been with the father for a total of 5 months - the majority of which they have been living together it would seem. I just don't see her being that close to these children and I see it more as her "playing house" and him using her to take care of his children. Then again, they do seem to be presenting a united front now. But I do see him as very controlling and her being afraid of him or afraid to lose him. Just sayin'.....if my husband ever called me a dumb bitc*, it would be the last words he ever spoke. Yet she is very much with him. Just cannot relate to that at all.

I flunked smiley's class, but thank you, I agree.

not_my_kids
02-17-2009, 12:59 AM
I am trying to follow this but you all are posting to much too quickly!!

My main question right now is about the school truancy. I keep reading that supposedly the father was being threatened with jail time because she had missed so much school. Is there verification of that? It sounds kinda hinky considering that Haleigh was only 5 and not yet required by Florida law to be in school. :waitasec:

I am curious to know:

1 WAS she missing a lot of school? If so, was it consecutive days or just random?

2 WAS Dad in trouble as a result of her missing school?

i think both Ron and bio mom have said that she missed a lot of school. Bio mom was asked about it I think on NG and she said that she didn't know why, just that Haleigh was sick a lot.
I don't think Ron was in trouble yet, but he was getting close. It may have been mentioned to him by the school that she couldn't miss any more days, but I dont think any action had yet been taken.

kellync
02-17-2009, 01:03 AM
Interesting that the sheriff just started being sheriff in 2009. BIG case for him, he doesnt want to mess this up. He was a former narcotics officer and won by a landslide. IIRC, he was s school resource officer as well. He is putting this case together very carefully. He hasnt been sheriff for 2 months yet....

cheko1
02-17-2009, 01:08 AM
Not sure what is going on with WS tonight or its just me ...anywho my reply button is only at the bottom of a page not on each message as normal.

I am pretty sure with TES leaving & LE cutting back on the search for little Haleigh that we are not far from an arrest.Whatever evidence they found & sent to Jacksonville must certainly be near completion.

If LE thought a SO had gotten her they'd of certainly warned everyone to double check locking there doors at night. Or at least put out some sort of a bulletin. To protect the community. JMHO

not_my_kids
02-17-2009, 01:11 AM
Interesting that the sheriff just started being sheriff in 2009. BIG case for him, he doesnt want to mess this up. He was a former narcotics officer and won by a landslide. IIRC, he was s school resource officer as well. He is putting this case together very carefully. He hasnt been sheriff for 2 months yet....

Narcotics....hmmm, I wonder if he has run across any of the players before this?

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 01:12 AM
Narcotics....hmmm, I wonder if he has run across any of the players before this?
my money's on the Sheriff - he not only knows them - he knows where they live and their mama's too!!! Probably helped bust some of them.

LaLaw2000
02-17-2009, 01:12 AM
Phyllis Bard's husband is the one who owns several properties in the neighborhood, and rents them to SO's, including Kyle J.

Ron may have trouble renting, too, with his record

I think PB's husband is building his own kind of "good old boy's club" in the area.

If PB's husband met Ronald in August, then we know that he had known Misty at least a little over 6 months. Maybe she was visiting with her brother over on Tyler Street. But, how did she and Ronald meet in the first place? I wonder if PB advertised this mobile home in the newspaper?

Guess we will have to sleuth these people too!

Brwnigirl
02-17-2009, 01:13 AM
I doubt he was threatened with jail time for missed school at that age. Either Ron was exaggerating or there was more to the reports they were getting on him.
I'm betting it was missed school with some other neglect issues. I also wonder about how the kids were dressed, the food in the house, and if Hayleigh came to school tired or hygiene was an issue.
I wish somehow we could hear from other parents at the school or neighbors about some of this stuff.

SeriouslySearching
02-17-2009, 01:13 AM
Ah, new sheriff would explain a lot.

amysmom
02-17-2009, 01:23 AM
How could RC not know his new neighbor, K Johns, is related to bio-mom (if true) & that he's SO? How could bio-mom & her mom not know?

kellync
02-17-2009, 01:26 AM
Ah, new sheriff would explain a lot.
yeah, and I noticed he "deferred" to the other gentleman on some questions at press conferences. Someone would ask a question, and before he answered, IF he answered, he looked at the white haired officer, dont remember his name,sorry.....................................

kellync
02-17-2009, 01:30 AM
nitey night, talk to you all in the a.m. Thanks for having me. Although the circumstances suck, I enjoy talking all scenarios out with you guys and gals. I feel like we're friends although I have not seen a single one of you....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

cajun
02-17-2009, 01:35 AM
I am confused. I thought the Bard's lived in Pa? If so, how did Ronald live next door to them?

I also see they or at least he is a reverend..

"Services will be Thursday at 11 a.m. at Howard L. Sipes Funeral Home in McConnellsburg, Pa. The Rev. Donald and Phyllis Bard will officiate. Burial will be at Union Cemetery in McConnellsburg."

tfrohning
02-17-2009, 01:39 AM
Can someone answer a question for me?
Pictures that are submitted always from the families?
I looking for the picture with Ron and Haleigh walking home from school?
This picture remind me of a surveillance picture, the way it was taken in a side angle.

Do you think there any cameras there the bus stop?

I don't know if I ever hear a camera near school bus stop.
But I think it good idea in area with high numbers of So.

Razzle
02-17-2009, 01:44 AM
I doubt he was threatened with jail time for missed school at that age. Either Ron was exaggerating or there was more to the reports they were getting on him.
I'm betting it was missed school with some other neglect issues. I also wonder about how the kids were dressed, the food in the house, and if Hayleigh came to school tired or hygiene was an issue.
I wish somehow we could hear from other parents at the school or neighbors about some of this stuff. (bolding mine)

This is what I was thinking as well. I don't understand what he would be in trouble for regarding not sending a 5 year old to school. Florida law does not require school attendance until the age of 6. :waitasec:

I totally agree with the rest of your post as well. I would be willing to bet that there were some other issues at the school besides just being absent a lot.

Moo

DotsEyes
02-17-2009, 01:44 AM
I haven't seen such a picture, tfrohning. Can't help you.

Mustang Sally
02-17-2009, 01:44 AM
On her Myspace it says she is 19 and her astro is Gemini which would be for a March Apr birthdate .

I noticed that also. She could actually be 19 years old and legal!

Does anyone know where the information came from that stated her 17th birthday was in December? Are there legal facts backing this up?

Was her DOB listed on the original Police Report?

Did anyone ever find out if she had a valid Florida D/L?

Just throwing these questions out there.

There is also the possibility that she was not truthful on the MySpace page because she wanted to attract older guys, thus claiming to be 19 rather than 16.

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 01:47 AM
I noticed that also. She could actually be 19 years old and legal!

Does anyone know where the information came from that stated her 17th birthday was in December? Are there legal facts backing this up?

Was her DOB listed on the original Police Report?

Did anyone ever find out if she had a valid Florida D/L?

Just throwing these questions out there.

There is also the possibility that she was not truthful on the MySpace page because she wanted to attract older guys, thus claiming to be 19 rather than 16.
yes - she is 17 DOB 12/9/91 dad's 10/29/83

They are on the police report - although the police report has bio-mom's DOB wrong.

JenBMomto3
02-17-2009, 01:50 AM
I noticed that also. She could actually be 19 years old and legal!

Does anyone know where the information came from that stated her 17th birthday was in December? Are there legal facts backing this up?

Was her DOB listed on the original Police Report?

Did anyone ever find out if she had a valid Florida D/L?

Just throwing these questions out there.

There is also the possibility that she was not truthful on the MySpace page because she wanted to attract older guys, thus claiming to be 19 rather than 16. Hmmmm.....Now you have me thinking if the B-date they had listed for Crystal that had everyone in an uproar saying she was only 19 now which would have made her 14 when she had Haleigh, It has since been proved that wasn't correct Bio-mom is actually 23, is Misty's B-date instead. ok now I'm going back to the police report.

tfrohning
02-17-2009, 01:52 AM
I doubt he was threatened with jail time for missed school at that age. Either Ron was exaggerating or there was more to the reports they were getting on him.
I'm betting it was missed school with some other neglect issues. I also wonder about how the kids were dressed, the food in the house, and if Hayleigh came to school tired or hygiene was an issue.
I wish somehow we could hear from other parents at the school or neighbors about some of this stuff.

I don't think he was exaggerating. My son in law forgot to call the school when my grandson was sick.
The school called imm. after the school started and lecture him on not calling.
Without a good reason or doctor excuse and child missing lot of days child service, esp. with single parents are called to check on the family.

dimples37398
02-17-2009, 02:03 AM
I believe that Misty is 17 based not only on the police report dob but IIRC one of the reporters or whatever asked about him being charged in relation to her age, and they said, they are worried about finding H first and then they will deal and figure out everything else.

Brwnigirl
02-17-2009, 02:16 AM
I don't think he was exaggerating. My son in law forgot to call the school when my grandson was sick.
The school called imm. after the school started and lecture him on not calling.
Without a good reason or doctor excuse and child missing lot of days child service, esp. with single parents are called to check on the family.

Yes, I agree, CPS could be called for this issue and sometimes schools and other "reporters" jump the gun on families, but in Florida can you threaten jail time?
CPS does not have that authority where I am from and even the police would not do that. CPS may take parent to court for neglect but even that would not result in jail time. More likely chronic neglect would at the very most lead to removal, then foster placement or placement with relatives. Charges would not be laid for this. Not sure about the laws everywhere???
I was just wondering why he made that statement or if there was more to it.

tfrohning
02-17-2009, 02:26 AM
I haven't seen such a picture, tfrohning. Can't help you.

Thanks, I will find it I am still going through the threads. we photo bucket.

tfrohning
02-17-2009, 02:28 AM
Yes, I agree, CPS could be called for this issue and sometimes schools and other "reporters" jump the gun on families, but in Florida can you threaten jail time?
CPS does not have that authority where I am from and even the police would not do that. CPS may take parent to court for neglect but even that would not result in jail time. More likely chronic neglect would at the very most lead to removal, then foster placement or placement with relatives. Charges would not be laid for this. Not sure about the laws everywhere???
I was just wondering why he made that statement or if there was more to it.

I don't know about jail time. I do think in Illinois you can be fine. Our schools are great. Kody was tired one week he in Kindgarden the teacher sent home note asking if he was getting another sleep.

LaLaw2000
02-17-2009, 02:31 AM
I am confused. I thought the Bard's lived in Pa? If so, how did Ronald live next door to them?

I also see they or at least he is a reverend..

"Services will be Thursday at 11 a.m. at Howard L. Sipes Funeral Home in McConnellsburg, Pa. The Rev. Donald and Phyllis Bard will officiate. Burial will be at Union Cemetery in McConnellsburg."


:eek::eek:

The Rev.'s ???????? And these people rent to SO's???

Razzle
02-17-2009, 02:35 AM
Yes, I agree, CPS could be called for this issue and sometimes schools and other "reporters" jump the gun on families, but in Florida can you threaten jail time?
CPS does not have that authority where I am from and even the police would not do that. CPS may take parent to court for neglect but even that would not result in jail time. More likely chronic neglect would at the very most lead to removal, then foster placement or placement with relatives. Charges would not be laid for this. Not sure about the laws everywhere???
I was just wondering why he made that statement or if there was more to it.

But wouldn't it all be a moot point considering that HC was only 5 and not even legally required to be in school?
http://www.fldoe.org/faq/default.asp?Dept=107&ID=503#Q503
"1. How is compulsory school attendance defined?
Florida Law (Section 1003.21, Florida Statutes) states that all children who are either six years of age, who will be six years old by February 1 of any school year, or who are older than six years of age but who have not attained the age of 16 years, must attend school regularly during the entire school term. A student who attains the age of 16 years during the school year is not subject to compulsory attendance beyond the date of which the student attains that age if he/she files a formal declaration of intent to terminate school enrollment with the school district."

RJA00
02-17-2009, 02:59 AM
I don't think he was exaggerating. My son in law forgot to call the school when my grandson was sick.
The school called imm. after the school started and lecture him on not calling.
Without a good reason or doctor excuse and child missing lot of days child service, esp. with single parents are called to check on the family.

I know here in Tn the laws are strict about school.

My sister had to go in front the judge when my nephew was 16, The were both standing in front of the judge. My nephew 6 '2 and my sister asked how can i make him go he doesn't want to go I cant drag him. this went on for almost a year. they threatened to fine her and put her in jail.

when he turned 17 he took is GED . everybody was surprised at the school when he aced his GED and almost got the highest score you can get.

he is now a licensed electrician. He went to trade school.

I think in MD your allowed to quit at 16 with parents permission.


I know here in tn. Its your choice to start them at 5 years old. My son is on the border line to start kindergarten this sept . His birthday is may. If i wanted to keep im home I could. they dont have to start here unless there 6. I dont know what the law is in fl

RJA00
02-17-2009, 03:49 AM
ok this is just my opinion

I think they should ask everybody on the lie detector test

Do you have a key to Ronald house
Did you give anybody a key the key to Ronald house

me and a friend was discussion that
I belive that should be asked to everyone

bio mom
grandmother
etc

mitzi
02-17-2009, 04:00 AM
I watched Greta tonight and she had a reporter on the phone. This reporter made the comment that Ron and Misty had only lived in the trailer for 2 weeks. I thought they'd been there for 4 months. Was this just poor reporting or what?

RJA00
02-17-2009, 04:24 AM
ok maybe this was meant to scare Ronald
it has went to far and now they don't know what to do
They didn't expect them to call the police?
maybe le should say were going to close are eyes count to 10 please put Haleigh back in the bed and we just forget this all happened. I used to that with my foster daughter when she took something and didn't have time to look for it. im going to bed now I have just been thinking too much

Was it reported somewhere that bio mom has life insurance on haleigh?

Angel Who Cares
02-17-2009, 06:39 AM
ON THE AIR: Jim Turner
Central Florida's Morning News Weekdays 5am-9am
At 6:40....we will go in-depth on the search for the missing 5 year old Haliegh Cummings.
Listen Live Radio Link:
http://www.streamaudio.com/Player/Player.aspx?station=WDBO_AM

Central Florida's Morning News with Jim Turner
http://wdbo.com/jimturner/index.html

Listen quickly after a simple registration!

pirate
02-17-2009, 06:59 AM
Was it reported somewhere that bio mom has life insurance on haleigh?

We don't know that for certain.

Most of the details we have are based on heresay and speculation.

The life insurance- I'm not sure where that came from.

The story about the Haleigh missing school and father being threatened with jail came from the bio mom. Since it has been addressed here that kids in FL are not required to attend school until they are six, I wonder if maybe mom wanted the kids for an extra day of visitation and dad said this to make mom return them?

It's so hard to be sure of these things- after 10,000 posts here it's easy to forget the source of some info- was it media or was it a maybe posted here that someone read and remembered as fact.

I'd like to see a new thread that deals with FACTS as we have them.


I also want to commend the sleuthers here for uncovering so much family information. It's amazing what we have learned.

natsound
02-17-2009, 07:19 AM
Can anyone link to the transcript of Greta's show last night... I couldn't find it through a google search. I want to see the context of the statements that this is not being investigated as an abduction. That contradicts every news article and story done about the case so far.

momtective
02-17-2009, 07:25 AM
Misty Croslins Family and possible related family members
Lisa Carman Croslin Age 39 (Misty’s Mother)

Associated family members:
Hank Thomas Coslin age 40
Adam Troy Croslin age 43
Dawn Renee Croslin age 52
June Marie Croslin age 63
Carman George Croslin age 31
Michael Croslin age unknown
Adam Troy Croslin age 43
Clester Leon Croslin age 44

Residences
Parma, MI
Saginaw, MI
Colorado Springs, CO
Madison, TN
Wheeler MI

Hank Thomas Croslin age 40 (Misty’s Father)
Possible relatives
Lisa Carman Croslin age 39
Clester Leon Croslin age 44
Michael Croslin
Debbie K Goldsberry age 37
Adam Troy Croslin age 43
Dawn Renee Croslin age 52
June Marie Croslin age 63

Residences
Wheeler, MI
Flagler Beach, Fl
Madison, TN
Saginaw, MI
Colorado Springs, CO
Merrill, MI
Nasville, TN
Calhan, CO
Simla, CO
Bunnell, FL

Thomas Hank Croslin Jr (Misty's brother)
Timothy Croslin (Misty's Brother)
Chelsea Croslin ( Misty's Sister-in-Law)
Lindsy Collins Croslin ( Misty's Sister-in-Law)

Have not found Lisa's maiden name...

CeeKer
02-17-2009, 07:27 AM
We don't know that for certain.

Most of the details we have are based on heresay and speculation.

The life insurance- I'm not sure where that came from.

The story about the Haleigh missing school and father being threatened with jail came from the bio mom. Since it has been addressed here that kids in FL are not required to attend school until they are six, I wonder if maybe mom wanted the kids for an extra day of visitation and dad said this to make mom return them?

It's so hard to be sure of these things- after 10,000 posts here it's easy to forget the source of some info- was it media or was it a maybe posted here that someone read and remembered as fact.

I'd like to see a new thread that deals with FACTS as we have them.


I also want to commend the sleuthers here for uncovering so much family information. It's amazing what we have learned.

Since, as far as I recall, Bio Mom made the statement "I wanted to take her out of school and Ron said he'd be arrested if she missed anymore school", I thought it very well could have been he just didn't want her to miss another day of school as well.

mydailyopinions
02-17-2009, 07:34 AM
Here we go..another day and no Haleigh. :(

CeeKer
02-17-2009, 07:37 AM
1.) I do not believe there has been an explanation as to why CPS had been to the home. BUT, I would like to know if there was a proper amount of nutritious food in the house, milk, eggs, and so forth. I also would think that CPS would question why there were mattresses on the floor rather than proper beds for the children. Were there clean clothes for the children? Just a number of things that would need to be looked at if CPS had come for a visit in response to a complaint from anyone. Could Haleigh have been falling asleep at school, come to school with dirty clothes, smelling like urine, etc.? Did she say anything at school to the teacher that would cause the teacher to wonder about Haleighs home life? Very frequent absences? May not have been the teacher at all, but it had to be in response to someone having called in. JMO.

2.) Not heard anything about this rumor at all.

3.) Haleigh's biological Mom, Crystal, had made the allegation that Ronald had been supposed to keeping an eye on Haleigh while she was putting the baby, Ronald Jr., in his carseat. She had come to get the children for a visit. She said that Ronald did not know where Hayleigh was and that she had located Haleigh face down in the canal by his Mother's house. She purportedly said that she had to save Haleigh's life. I do not believe this for one moment. 911, nor police were called. There is no documentation of this incident.
Plus, supposedly, even though Crystal had pulled Haleigh from having been face down in the canal, Haleigh had no health issues from it. No water in her little lungs? No cold afterwards? This is so unreal!

4.) Fact: This whole thing is making me goofy! :crazy:

Goofy for sure!!! LOL! The think I think about CPS is, we know Ron had a CPS case worker because he mentions her in the custody documents, so I guess I'm not surprised one is involved. I also think when the Sheriff (or whoever was talking at a presser) said something to the effect of "CPS has been at the house" or something like that, it was in proximity to a reporter asking about the 17 year old g/f. So the fact that CPS knew about the underage girlfriend and was acquainted with the house AND the kids were left in Ron's care, says to me CPS didn't think the situation was that bad or the kids would have been removed. Esp. since the Bio Mom wanted them back anyway.

ROBLYN
02-17-2009, 07:38 AM
Phyllis Bard's husband is the one who owns several properties in the neighborhood, and rents them to SO's, including Kyle J.

Ron may have trouble renting, too, with his record

I think PB's husband is building his own kind of "good old boy's club" in the area.

Thanks for the response moonligting.:banghead::behindbar

Elphaba
02-17-2009, 07:51 AM
Here we go..another day and no Haleigh. :(

I'm trying to think positive... hoping that today the sun will set on a found Haleigh, whatever way it may be.

Kat
02-17-2009, 07:51 AM
I wanted to add something about jail time. I wonder if FL has the same law as TX? (Or it could go by county, I'm not sure).

I don't think that I still have a copy of the letter I get when one of my kids misses school but when I have forgotten (or my kids have forgotten) to submit their excuse for being absent from school, I get a letter.

This letter is a reminder that the there is/are a # of absenses and that so many of these unexcused absences will result in prosecution of me.

I remember the first time I read one (we've been here almost 9 years) it alarmed me so I called the school. They said just submit the excuse. But my kids only missed here and there not a lot of school. With the exception of one child that was out when he was hospitalized for MRSA.

I just thought a poster from FL would know or we could sleuth that out. I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet and I'm too sleepy to sleuth before I post :)

oh and Good Morning!

kgeaux
02-17-2009, 07:55 AM
Yes, I agree, CPS could be called for this issue and sometimes schools and other "reporters" jump the gun on families, but in Florida can you threaten jail time?
CPS does not have that authority where I am from and even the police would not do that. CPS may take parent to court for neglect but even that would not result in jail time. More likely chronic neglect would at the very most lead to removal, then foster placement or placement with relatives. Charges would not be laid for this. Not sure about the laws everywhere???
I was just wondering why he made that statement or if there was more to it.

Parents here can be threatened with jail time if their child continually misses school. CPS doesn't have the authority to actually arrest the parent of a truant and put them in jail, but when CPS calls the police, LE is QUICK to act.

In Hayleigh's case, I'm actually not surprised she missed a lot of school. Her dad works the night shift returning home between three and four AM.......he is presumably snoozing when it's time to get Hayleigh up and off to school. And her caretaker, a seventeen year old, is probably dead to the world in the early morning hours.....at least no 17 year old I've ever known had an easy time rising early. I think the gf/babysitter just slept in alot which resulted in the kiddos sleeping in, too.

pirate
02-17-2009, 07:59 AM
I wanted to add something about jail time. I wonder if FL has the same law as TX? (Or it could go by county, I'm not sure).

I don't think that I still have a copy of the letter I get when one of my kids misses school but when I have forgotten (or my kids have forgotten) to submit their excuse for being absent from school, I get a letter.

This letter is a reminder that the there is/are a # of absenses and that so many of these unexcused absences will result in prosecution of me.

I remember the first time I read one (we've been here almost 9 years) it alarmed me so I called the school. They said just submit the excuse. But my kids only missed here and there not a lot of school. With the exception of one child that was out when he was hospitalized for MRSA.

I just thought a poster from FL would know or we could sleuth that out. I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet and I'm too sleepy to sleuth before I post :)

oh and Good Morning!

My HS Junior has been in Florida schools all his life but in his 11 years of school he has only missed five days- so I don't know about attendance.

JenBMomto3
02-17-2009, 08:03 AM
Parents here can be threatened with jail time if their child continually misses school. CPS doesn't have the authority to actually arrest the parent of a truant and put them in jail, but when CPS calls the police, LE is QUICK to act.

In Hayleigh's case, I'm actually not surprised she missed a lot of school. Her dad works the night shift returning home between three and four AM.......he is presumably snoozing when it's time to get Hayleigh up and off to school. And her caretaker, a seventeen year old, is probably dead to the world in the early morning hours.....at least no 17 year old I've ever known had an easy time rising early. I think the gf/babysitter just slept in alot which resulted in the kiddos sleeping in, too.


I am in PA and only have a half day Kindergartener so I am not sure how all of that works yet :) But in Maryland where I have Teenage siblings even if they are Late so many days(not sure how many) they equal one whole day. Even with a note, they only will accept car trouble, slept late, power outage so many times before they start calling BS. So if Haleigh was all day kindergarten maybe she was late and missed some days too. But so many days of being late added up to whole day absences. Wow I dont drink coffee so I think I need a bowl of wheaties :)

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 08:13 AM
Mornin' all - up early and no news.

I decided to try to legally "clear up" the school attendance issue with Haleigh by examining the local School Board policies and the State DOE policies.

Here is was I found. I will also post this in the media thread.

Putname County School Board Policy:

CHAPTER 5.00 – STUDENT SERVICES
Chapter 5 – Page #5
STUDENT ATTENDANCE 5.04
I. Regular school attendance is required between the ages of six (6) and sixteen (16) with certain exceptions outlined under Florida Statutes, Chapter 232.06. Principals in each school center shall determine the daily attendance of that center through an official attendance check taken during the first hour that the school center is in session. Classroom absenteeism shall be reported within the school on PCDSB Form E-10.

Attendance of all students for at least one hundred eighty (180) days is required except for absences due to illness or otherwise as provided by the law.


B. If a student has had at least five (5) unexcused absences, or absences for which the reasons are unknown, within a calendar month or ten (10) unexcused absences, or absences for which the reasons are unknown, within a ninety (90) calendar-day period, the student's primary teacher shall report to the school principal or his or her designee that the student may be exhibiting a pattern of non-attendance. The principal shall, unless there is clear evidence that the absences are not a pattern of non-attendance, refer the case to the school's child study team to determine if early patterns of truancy are developing. If the child study team finds that a pattern of non-attendance is developing, whether the absences are excused or not, a meeting with the parent must be scheduled to identify potential remedies.

F. If a child subject to compulsory school attendance will not comply with attempts to enforce school attendance, the parent, the guardian, or the Superintendent or his or her designee shall refer the case to the case staffing committee pursuant to S.984.12 and the Superintendent or his or her designee may file a truancy petition pursuant to the procedures in S.984.151.




Florida DOE State Policy

232.01 School attendance.--

(1)(a)1. All children who have attained the age of 6 years or who will have attained the age of 6 years by February 1 of any school year or who are older than 6 years of age but who have not attained the age of 16 years, except as hereinafter provided, are required to attend school regularly during the entire school term.

2. Children who will have attained the age of 5 years on or before September 1 of the school year are eligible for admission to public kindergartens during that school year under rules prescribed by the school board.


Statute 228.041
(28) HABITUAL TRUANT.--A habitual truant is a student who has 15 unexcused absences within 90 calendar days with or without the knowledge or consent of the student's parent or legal guardian, is subject to compulsory school attendance under s. 232.01, and is not exempt under s. 232.06 or s. 232.09, or by meeting the criteria for any other exemption specified by law or rules of the State Board of Education. Such a student must have been the subject of the activities specified in ss. 232.17 and 232.19(3), without resultant successful remediation of the truancy problem before being dealt with as a child in need of services according to the provisions of chapter 984.


Statute 232.06

232.06">232.06 Certificates of exemptions authorized in certain cases.--Children within the compulsory attendance age limits who hold valid certificates of exemption which have been issued by the superintendent shall be exempt from attending school. A certificate of exemption shall cease to be valid at the end of the school year in which it is issued.


Statute 232.17

232.17">232.17 Enforcement of school attendance.--The Legislature finds that poor academic performance is associated with nonattendance and that schools must take an active role in enforcing attendance as a means of improving the performance of many students. It is the policy of the state that the superintendent of each school district be responsible for enforcing school attendance of all children and youth subject to the compulsory school age in the school district. The responsibility includes recommending to the school board policies and procedures to ensure that schools respond in a timely manner to every unexcused absence, or absence for which the reason is unknown, of students enrolled in the schools. School board policies must require each parent or guardian of a student to justify each absence of the student, and that justification will be evaluated based on adopted school board policies that define excused and unexcused absences. The policies must provide that schools track excused and unexcused absences and contact the home in the case of an unexcused absence from school, or an absence from school for which the reason is unknown, to prevent the development of patterns of nonattendance. The Legislature finds that early intervention in school attendance matters is the most effective way of producing good attendance habits that will lead to improved student learning and achievement. Each public school shall implement the following steps to enforce regular school attendance

232.19

(2) NONENROLLMENT AND NONATTENDANCE CASES.--

(a) In each case of nonenrollment or of nonattendance upon the part of a child who is required to attend some school, when no valid reason for such nonenrollment or nonattendance is found, the superintendent shall institute a criminal prosecution against the child's parent.
232.19(3)

(3) HABITUAL TRUANCY CASES.--The superintendent is authorized to file a truancy petition, as defined in s. 984.03, following the procedures outlined in s. 984.151. If the superintendent chooses not to file a truancy petition, procedures for filing a child-in-need-of-services petition shall be commenced pursuant to this subsection and chapter 984. In accordance with procedures established by the district school board, the designated school representative shall refer a student who is habitually truant and the student's family to the children-in-need-of-services and families-in-need-of-services provider or the case staffing committee, established pursuant to s. 984.12, as determined by the cooperative agreement required in this section. The case staffing committee may request the Department of Juvenile Justice or its designee to file a child-in-need-of-services petition based upon the report and efforts of the school district or other community agency or may seek to resolve the truant behavior through the school or community-based organizations or agencies. Prior to and subsequent to the filing of a child-in-need-of-services petition due to habitual truancy, the appropriate governmental agencies must allow a reasonable time to complete actions required by this section and s. 232.17 to remedy the conditions leading to the truant behavior. Prior to the filing of a petition, the school district must have complied with the requirements of s. 232.17, and those efforts must have been unsuccessful


State Statute 982.12
984.12">984.12 Case staffing; services and treatment to a family in need of services.--

(1) The appropriate representative of the department shall request a meeting of the family and child with a case staffing committee to review the case of any family or child who the department determines is in need of services or treatment if:

(a) The family or child is not in agreement with the services or treatment offered;

(b) The family or child will not participate in the services or treatment selected; or

(c) The representative of the department needs assistance in developing an appropriate plan for services. The time and place selected for the meeting shall be convenient for the child and family.




Ok - what all that legal carp above actually says:

Local (Putnam County) says any child enrolled in public school is required to adhere to policy. Once a child is absent 5 times in one month or 10 times in 90 days, the child will be referred to "Child Study Team" within the school.

There are several State Statutes that are mentioned (I included them for reference) - they are:

232.01 - This one will clear up the AGE issue. It says a child is eligible at FIVE (5) years of age. Child may enroll BUT is required to abide by policies of all. So, once RC enrolled Haleigh in kindergarten of public school - he will be held to all attendance policies.

232.06 - This is an "exception" policy. Usually deals with severely handicapped children - NOT Haleigh. Although RC could have tried to do this - it requires ALOT of paperwork and ALOT of testing and all it does is "exempt her" for absences that relate to disability.

232.17 - General basic interpretation of responsibility for attendance, and enforcement by local boards and individual schools.

232.19 - This is the biggie! This is the one that says "yes, RC could be charged criminally for Haleigh's poor attendance.

984.12 - This starts to go into the "procedures" steps, protocol, however you want to call it - on how to get a parent/student to resolve attendance problems.

So, you can see -yes RC was required by law to followed attendance policy by simply registering Haleigh at a public school. Yes, he could be legally charged with a crime - BUT - it takes ALOT of teams, committees, meetings, and staffings and even MORE documentation before the actual charge comes down. Normally schools will try a "get tough" approach with a parent to "wake them up" and most times, this works. I think that is the stage that RC was in in reference to Haleigh's attendance. He had been "talked" to - it got his dandur up and he just relayed that to Crystal over the phone.

I know this is a very very long post. Sorry - but now we have the actual statutes and local policy to refer to. As I said I will also post this in the media thread so we have easy reference to it.

Kat
02-17-2009, 08:15 AM
TY Swag1959! I'm still sippin' coffee over here:) Good sleuthin' my friend.

I think that about clears that up:D

Litany
02-17-2009, 08:17 AM
My daughter missed more than 15 days last year before she was finally diagnosed and treated for her condition. The school sent us a letter stating that after 15 days the state is notified (sorry I can't recall the agency atm) and that we could face jail time. I was shocked! I called the school and asked if I could get the days removed from her attendance record by providing a note from the doctor for the days she was treated and they said that would work. However, if she missed 15 days not covered by a doctors note it was mandatory for them to report it and that letter went out automatically. They told me to basically ignore it so I don't know how seriuously the state takes it or at what point one would begin to face real legal trouble. But maybe Ron got one of these letters in the mail from the school.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 08:17 AM
Maybe the reason LE is being so tight lipped....is that all they have points to one of the family members, (I think Misty) And they don't want to put that out as they are trying to "stay on their good-side" in hopes of getting more info before they lawyer up....It's been making me nutz that we have no more info than we do and this is the only thing that makes sense to me.

OT....Mornin' everyone!

Kat
02-17-2009, 08:25 AM
Maybe the reason LE is being so tight lipped....is that all they have points to one of the family members, (I think Misty) And they don't want to put that out as they are trying to "stay on their good-side" in hopes of getting more info before they lawyer up....It's been making me nutz that we have no more info than we do and this is the only thing that makes sense to me.

OT....Mornin' everyone!


Mornin' tehcloser. I'm still wondering about Misty too. The LE being tight lipped is driving me nuts too. I hope that the media coverage doesn't come to a screeching halt like it did with Adji after the ground search was halted for him. :/

mydailyopinions
02-17-2009, 08:29 AM
Maybe the reason LE is being so tight lipped....is that all they have points to one of the family members, (I think Misty) And they don't want to put that out as they are trying to "stay on their good-side" in hopes of getting more info before they lawyer up....It's been making me nutz that we have no more info than we do and this is the only thing that makes sense to me.

OT....Mornin' everyone!

Good Morning!
I think this is what is going on too. The things they refuse to answer are the things that would help the general public in moving forward to find her, or not. I guess they can't credit one member of the family for telling the truth, without the other because of the fear of obtaining a lawyer.
I hope that something breaks soon though. Maybe with them moving the command center, they will start giving out bits and pieces of information.
Least...I hope so..

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Good Morning!
I think this is what is going on too. The things they refuse to answer are the things that would help the general public in moving forward to find her, or not. I guess they can't credit one member of the family for telling the truth, without the other because of the fear of obtaining a lawyer.
I hope that something breaks soon though. Maybe with them moving the command center, they will start giving out bits and pieces of information.
Least...I hope so..

Yeah, I mean if they wanted the gen. public's help they would tell us something. So I take it as they don't. And what was the remark about "We are keeping it as a missing child case cause we get more bang for the buck". Now what else could he have meant except...we don't think it is, but hey we get more with that. More resources, more corporation etc. I can't remember which LE said it....

catch_22
02-17-2009, 08:36 AM
maybe haleigh wasn't required to attend school this year because of her age, but once she was signed up and going, then the attendence rules would apply to her?

or maybe someone did threaten ron with jail time, even if they couldn't actually enforce it? but ron wouldn't know that......

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 08:38 AM
As for the "school" thing - yes, I think it was still in the early stages but that she had missed quite a few school days this year. He had probably been called, and notices sent in the mail.

I also think LE is looking HARD at one or two people. They don't want to tip their hand because they just don't have the HARD evidence yet to back it up. Once they arrest - all he77 is going to break loose in that town!

I also believe that once this is all over - or an arrest is made - regardless of WHO is arrested - RC is going to loose custody of Jr. I can bet that mom etal. have contacted the divorce attorney with questions along these lines - an order will be filed to vacate the custody order now in place and issue temporary custody back to bio-mom just due to the circumstances revolving around this. Dad (by delegating Misty) was negligent with these children. And I think it will be granted. Wonder how he is going to take that?

CeeKer
02-17-2009, 08:47 AM
As for the "school" thing - yes, I think it was still in the early stages but that she had missed quite a few school days this year. He had probably been called, and notices sent in the mail.

I also think LE is looking HARD at one or two people. They don't want to tip their hand because they just don't have the HARD evidence yet to back it up. Once they arrest - all he77 is going to break loose in that town!

I also believe that once this is all over - or an arrest is made - regardless of WHO is arrested - RC is going to loose custody of Jr. I can bet that mom etal. have contacted the divorce attorney with questions along these lines - an order will be filed to vacate the custody order now in place and issue temporary custody back to bio-mom just due to the circumstances revolving around this. Dad (by delegating Misty) was negligent with these children. And I think it will be granted. Wonder how he is going to take that?

We only have Bio mom's word about the missing school thing and Haleigh had a disease, maybe it was a little bit of both (oversleeping and illness). I think missing 15 days of school (which I believe someone posted was the "trigger" with the school board) just doesn't seem as bad as the Bio Mom missing 12 Doctor's appointments (per the transcript of custody hearing, Ron had definitive proof).

And we know Ron had a CPS case manager per the same court transcript... and we know from the Sheriff that CPS "knew the home" or had been "called to the home" while Misty was living there. Yet CPS didn't see fit to remove the children and the police hadn't filed any charges so again I say how bad could it really have been???? These people were on the radar already, it wasn't like this was a case where children were slipping thru cracks because CPS had a history here.

pirate
02-17-2009, 08:47 AM
It has been said that they moved either four months ago (October) or a few weeks ago (Jan).

Maybe there was a school change for Haleigh and they weren't quick to get her registered at the new school?

Just speculatin'

pirate
02-17-2009, 08:49 AM
And we know Ron had a CPS case manager per the same court transcript... and we know from the Sheriff that CPS "knew the home" or had been "called to the home" while Misty was living there. Yet CPS didn't see fit to remove the children and the police hadn't filed any charges so again I say how bad could it really have been???? These people were on the radar already, it wasn't like this was a case where children were slipping thru cracks because CPS had a history here.


CPS here in Florida is called DCF- and they are known for letting things slip through the cracks, unfortunately.

They are overtasked and underpaid.

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 08:54 AM
We only have Bio mom's word about the missing school thing and Haleigh had a disease, maybe it was a little bit of both (oversleeping and illness). I think missing 15 days of school (which I believe someone posted was the "trigger" with the school board) just doesn't seem as bad as the Bio Mom missing 12 Doctor's appointments (per the transcript of custody hearing, Ron had definitive proof).

And we know Ron had a CPS case manager per the same court transcript... and we know from the Sheriff that CPS "knew the home" or had been "called to the home" while Misty was living there. Yet CPS didn't see fit to remove the children and the police hadn't filed any charges so again I say how bad could it really have been???? These people were on the radar already, it wasn't like this was a case where children were slipping thru cracks because CPS had a history here.
I agree that we do not have the KNOWN FACTS of events. We do know CPS was involved - we DON'T know what CPS actually had in their case file, interviews, social worker's notes, recommendations made (and was RC following them).

IF the school thing is true - and its only 5 days absent in one month or 10 days absent in 90 school days - that will be brought in and he will be asked to explain each and every absence. Sleeping in - even once, twice and definitely 3 times will be a negative mark in his column.

Bio mom - now had new baby - has new pediatrician that can "testify" that she is bringing the baby in for appts, she can verify income whether hers or her fiance, I heard she had bought a home - so she has a mortgage and a stable home.

Over time things change. I believe, if what we are hearing is true, that mom can go back to court - show the changes she has made - and yes CPS will be required to do a home visit on her house as well - she has a good chance - a REAL GOOD CHANCE.

Absolutely Addicted
02-17-2009, 08:55 AM
I agree that we do not have the KNOWN FACTS of events. We do know CPS was involved - we DON'T know what CPS actually had in their case file, interviews, social worker's notes, recommendations made (and was RC following them).

IF the school thing is true - and its only 5 days absent in one month or 10 days absent in 90 school days - that will be brought in and he will be asked to explain each and every absence. Sleeping in - even once, twice and definitely 3 times will be a negative mark in his column.

Bio mom - now had new baby - has new pediatrician that can "testify" that she is bringing the baby in for appts, she can verify income whether hers or her fiance, I heard she had bought a home - so she has a mortgage and a stable home.

Over time things change. I believe, if what we are hearing is true, that mom can go back to court - show the changes she has made - and yes CPS will be required to do a home visit on her house as well - she has a good chance - a REAL GOOD CHANCE.

And a REAL GOOD MOTIVE maybe?

pirate
02-17-2009, 08:57 AM
And a REAL GOOD MOTIVE maybe?

Somehow I don't think so because her other child was not taken. I don't think a mother would kidnap one and leave the other.

Also, where did we learn that DCF was involved in this family? Was it speculation or was it stated by LE?

amysmom
02-17-2009, 08:59 AM
:eek::eek:

The Rev.'s ???????? And these people rent to SO's???

Do SOs have to report their status to landlords? My guess is they do so who rents to these SOBs?

Do SOs have to report their status to employers? My guess is they do so who hires these SOBs?

It's extreme risky bizness for both I just can't see anyone in their right mind doing it willingly.. How :crazy: is that?

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 09:00 AM
Somehow I don't think so because her other child was not taken. I don't think a mother would kidnap one and leave the other.

Also, where did we learn that DCF was involved in this family? Was it speculation or was it stated by LE?
Early on - day 1 or 2 I think, LE did answer a question about CPS. Well, actually he had been asked if LE had had any calls to the residence in the recent past - he said no - LE had not had any involvement BUT the DFS HAD been called and had dealings with them. He was asked to clarify and all he said was that DFS was there involving Ron, Misty and the children. Some speculated that maybe bio-mom and/or grandma may have called them - but the school social worker could have alerted them due to the attendance - don't know. But yes, LE did say DFS had been involved.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:01 AM
I just don't think that LE really thinks BIO Mom had anything to do with it. She has offered to take a poly, and they have not done it yet. If they thought she was involved in any way....they would have. On the other hand, how many times have they re-interviewed Misty. Also has she had 2 poly's? Looks like they think she is where the answers are.

pirate
02-17-2009, 09:02 AM
Early on - day 1 or 2 I think, LE did answer a question about CPS. Well, actually he had been asked if LE had had any calls to the residence in the recent past - he said no - LE had not had any involvement BUT the DFS HAD been called and had dealings with them. He was asked to clarify and all he said was that DFS was there involving Ron, Misty and the children. Some speculated that maybe bio-mom and/or grandma may have called them - but the school social worker could have alerted them due to the attendance - don't know. But yes, LE did say DFS had been involved.

Thanks Swag- there has been so much conjecture I just want to make sure we're talking facts.

I wonder if DCF may have been called about Misty being underage?????

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 09:04 AM
Yep teh - ITA

Bio mom and gma both said they filled the paperwork out last Thursday to take them - but LE has not come back to them yet saying "c'mon, let's go, we're ready". Mom has a new baby - it is quite easy to prove where you were and when you were there. I think both her and fiance's whereabouts have been documented and proven by a variety of means. At first I was leary - but the no poly yet? Nope, she's not involved.

pirate
02-17-2009, 09:05 AM
I just don't think that LE really thinks BIO Mom had anything to do with it. She has offered to take a poly, and they have not done it yet. If they thought she was involved in any way....they would have. On the other hand, how many times have they re-interviewed Misty. Also has she had 2 poly's? Looks like they think she is where the answers are.

I agree, tehcloser. And after watching bio mom and her mother on various shows, I don't find them suspicious.

In fact, I think the mother is fairly well spoken and seems fairly intelligent and kind. I know she was fairly vocal in the first couple of days and that upset some sleuthers. However, if it were my child or grandchild she would have looked tame compared to how angry I would be.

They had every right to question Misty and Ron and the care being given to those children when one of them disappeared in the middle of the night. It wasn't received well here but I could totally relate.

Anyway, something about biomom's mother clicks with me in a good way.

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 09:08 AM
Plus, now dad's "camp" has QUIT the media. We have heard nothing from them since, I think it was Friday? Yet, mom and gma are staying on the air - which I think is a good thing - it keeps Haleigh's face out there in the public. The more media coverage for a missing child - the better.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Plus, now dad's "camp" has QUIT the media. We have heard nothing from them since, I think it was Friday? Yet, mom and gma are staying on the air - which I think is a good thing - it keeps Haleigh's face out there in the public. The more media coverage for a missing child - the better.

EXACTLY!!!! If my child were missing....I would be in front of every camera I could find...begging! And if I was not in front of a camera I would be out doing anything and everything I could to find my daughter. They have closed ranks and almost gone into seclusion. Not a good sign imo. Yes, Ron did beg Tim to stay, however you can look at that in a couple of different ways.

ROBLYN
02-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Yep teh - ITA

Bio mom and gma both said they filled the paperwork out last Thursday to take them - but LE has not come back to them yet saying "c'mon, let's go, we're ready". Mom has a new baby - it is quite easy to prove where you were and when you were there. I think both her and fiance's whereabouts have been documented and proven by a variety of means. At first I was leary - but the no poly yet? Nope, she's not involved.

Morning All-

Well...Thank Goodness we can eliminate someone!..? Great work trying to sort this all out, on one continuous thread. Not sure of all the reasons for that, but i think most "key players" have been established. Now praying someone spills some beans and Haleigh can be found.

Have a good day Everyone

CeeKer
02-17-2009, 09:13 AM
I agree that we do not have the KNOWN FACTS of events. We do know CPS was involved - we DON'T know what CPS actually had in their case file, interviews, social worker's notes, recommendations made (and was RC following them).

IF the school thing is true - and its only 5 days absent in one month or 10 days absent in 90 school days - that will be brought in and he will be asked to explain each and every absence. Sleeping in - even once, twice and definitely 3 times will be a negative mark in his column.

Bio mom - now had new baby - has new pediatrician that can "testify" that she is bringing the baby in for appts, she can verify income whether hers or her fiance, I heard she had bought a home - so she has a mortgage and a stable home.

Over time things change. I believe, if what we are hearing is true, that mom can go back to court - show the changes she has made - and yes CPS will be required to do a home visit on her house as well - she has a good chance - a REAL GOOD CHANCE.

I think you're right, Bio Mom does seem like she's turned it around. That's why I think CPS (or DCF) had an easy way to clean up this situation, if as the Sheriff said, they were aware of the 17 year old in the house and IF they found other things wrong in the home. I know things slip thru the cracks and resources are taxed like Pirate said, but DCF had an easy out and didn't take it. It just makes me think "maybe" things weren't that bad in this home as some people here seem to want to believe... Of course, who knows, maybe they were :( I guess I just get my back up because people act like they "know" these people when none of us know the true facts. Me included!

It's time for me to take a break from this case. Praying for Haleigh and all those involved. No matter how they (both parents) raised these kids, it's apparent to me they loved her dearly.

little726
02-17-2009, 09:16 AM
LE needs to check into the bio-moms family being involved with the Assyrian Family. This guy is listed as a "friend" on most of their profiles.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=294617058

ElizaAvalon
02-17-2009, 09:17 AM
I posted this on the media docs thread:

I think this clears up how long Ron has been living in the house:

http://m.firstcoastnews.com/news.jsp?key=165580&rc=lo (http://m.firstcoastnews.com/news.jsp?key=165580&rc=lo)

SATSUMA, FL -- Donald Bard remembers the phone call early last Tuesday morning that woke him up.

His wife Phyllis answered the call.

"We were sleeping and then we received a phone call, the automated phone call that Haleigh Cummings was missing in our neighborhood," said Phyllis Bard.

The Bard's recognized the name right away.

"The home where Haleigh was taken from belonged to my parents," said Phyllis.

It sits right next door to her own home, and Phyllis began renting it out a few years ago after her father died of diabetes complications and her mother died in a car crash 80 days later.

The Bard's first met Haleigh's father, Ron Cummings, last August.

Phyllis says, "They first moved next door to us, and then they needed a bedroom for each of the children he said, and so he asked to rent that house and we rented that to him in November."

She's an adorable little girl," says Phyllis. "Just adorable. She would come over when I was hanging clothes on the line, and I would see the two of them out in the yard playing and she's just, what can I say, a beautiful, adorable little girl. It just breaks my heart that all this has happened."

The Bard's say, almost one week later, it's still so hard to believe. The FDLE Command Center is just yards from their front door, and Monday night, the Putnam County Sheriff's Office teamed up with the Florida Highway Patrol to set up a another roadblock outside the neighborhood.

Sgt. Joseph Wells of the Putnam County Sheriff's Office said, "It's just a general set of questions. Were they down here last week, and then if yes, a few more questions."

"We might find that there's a paper delivery or a gas delivery company or something that comes and goes on this day and time and we'd just like to know who was down here and maybe did they see anything."

Sgt. Wells said the roadblock, which will be up until 2 a.m., is part of CART protocol, which is the Child Abduction Response Team.

Just down the road, Phyllis Bard thinks of the missing daughter, and of her own mother, and is comforted.

"I heard on the television, hold on to hope. I heard the sheriff say that, and all of a sudden it hit me, my mother's name was Hope. It's the house of hope. Because if my mother were living, my mother would say, just hang on to hope."

CeeKer
02-17-2009, 09:19 AM
Plus, now dad's "camp" has QUIT the media. We have heard nothing from them since, I think it was Friday? Yet, mom and gma are staying on the air - which I think is a good thing - it keeps Haleigh's face out there in the public. The more media coverage for a missing child - the better.

Well not talking to the media isn't an indication of guilt. However there has been media coverage of Ron on horseback with Tim Miller. Ron searching. Ron quoted in a link last nite thanking everyone who searched and saying he will never, ever give up looking for his daughter.

ElizaAvalon
02-17-2009, 09:19 AM
I am confused. I thought the Bard's lived in Pa? If so, how did Ronald live next door to them?

I also see they or at least he is a reverend..

"Services will be Thursday at 11 a.m. at Howard L. Sipes Funeral Home in McConnellsburg, Pa. The Rev. Donald and Phyllis Bard will officiate. Burial will be at Union Cemetery in McConnellsburg."

They are either snowbirds or have moved permanently to FL.

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 09:20 AM
The wheels of CPS - DCF turn very slowly! I'm sure RC and MC were on their radar - whether their "investigation" had been closed yet - we don't know. Maybe RC was upset because DCF had come out and interviewed him - some of those social workers can be quite intimidating!!! Maybe he thought things weren't looking so good. Who knows. Maybe when the SW dropped by, unannounced, the house was dirty, the kids were dirty, SW's will even look in the refrigerator and kitchen cabinets! Maybe no food in the house. We just don't know.

Just knowing that DCF was involved will not bode well for RC if mom decides to take him back to court for custody IMO.

ROBLYN
02-17-2009, 09:20 AM
I think you're right, Bio Mom does seem like she's turned it around. That's why I think CPS (or DCF) had an easy way to clean up this situation, if as the Sheriff said, they were aware of the 17 year old in the house and IF they found other things wrong in the home. I know things slip thru the cracks and resources are taxed like Pirate said, but DCF had an easy out and didn't take it. It just makes me think "maybe" things weren't that bad in this home as some people here seem to want to believe... Of course, who knows, maybe they were :( I guess I just get my back up because people act like they "know" these people when none of us know the true facts. Me included!

It's time for me to take a break from this case. Praying for Haleigh and all those involved. No matter how they (both parents) raised these kids, it's apparent to me they loved her dearly.

OT/

CeeKer- I hope you will return after a break...You have given alot of good info. and insight and i appreciate it very much.

Beyond Belief
02-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Haleigh missing is so frustrating. A child just doesn't disappear off the face of the earth. A whole week and nothing. Everybody has alibis, everybody checks out. SO WHO TOOK THIS CHILD.:furious:

ElizaAvalon
02-17-2009, 09:21 AM
Oops. Maybe I should read the thread first. Sorry about posting what's already been posted. My bad.

stellasmommyphd
02-17-2009, 09:22 AM
I don't get that either, even if she's young, which she is, I would think that finding your boyfriend's daughter missing at 3:00 am would have you on that phone right away. Now, there are some people who have had a lot of contact with the police that are afraid to call the police for anything, but I would think this situation would trump any fear of police.

yes, but we're talking about someone who doesn't know the difference between 3 or 4 inches and 3 or 4 feet. her mind is not normal IMO. what you or i as normal intelligence people would do doesn't apply to her necessarily. i really do think, the more i hear from her, she is cognitively impaired.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:25 AM
Haleigh missing is so frustrating. A child just doesn't disappear off the face of the earth. A whole week and nothing. Everybody has alibis, everybody checks out. SO WHO TOOK THIS CHILD.:furious:


NO one has checked out. We know nothing about any one's alibi, at all!

pirate
02-17-2009, 09:25 AM
EXACTLY!!!! If my child were missing....I would be in front of every camera I could find...begging! And if I was not in front of a camera I would be out doing anything and everything I could to find my daughter. They have closed ranks and almost gone into seclusion. Not a good sign imo. Yes, Ron did beg Tim to stay, however you can look at that in a couple of different ways.


Ron was out searching on horseback yesterday. I saw the video on the news.

Wise Old Owl
02-17-2009, 09:28 AM
yes, but we're talking about someone who doesn't know the difference between 3 or 4 inches and 3 or 4 feet. her mind is not normal IMO. what you or i as normal intelligence people would do doesn't apply to her necessarily. i really do think, the more i hear from her, she is cognitively impaired.
I don't think she is impaired. I think she is young, naive, inexperienced and intimidated by all the "high-falutin' " media types with bright lights and microphones and LE in uniforms with badges and dectectives in suits. I guess I would call it "communcation challenged".

Becky319
02-17-2009, 09:28 AM
LE needs to check into the bio-moms family being involved with the Assyrian Family. This guy is listed as a "friend" on most of their profiles.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=294617058

It looks like Assyrian is a reference to a particular kind of Absolut Vodka, even in the sybol it has AV, however I have to agree with you, this page is a bit weird, worth looking into this person.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:28 AM
Ron was out searching on horseback yesterday. I saw the video on the news.

Well....Ok. My bad on that. But, I still think it's hinky they are not talking to the media. Thanks for pointing that out. :blowkiss:

ElizaAvalon
02-17-2009, 09:28 AM
Morning All-

Well...Thank Goodness we can eliminate someone!..? Great work trying to sort this all out, on one continuous thread. Not sure of all the reasons for that, but i think most "key players" have been established. Now praying someone spills some beans and Haleigh can be found.

Have a good day Everyone

Me, too.

I wish we had more answers about:

the blankets
the van
the missing gun
cellphone records

I'm getting tired trying to determine who is related to whom how....

LaLaw2000
02-17-2009, 09:29 AM
Do SOs have to report their status to landlords? My guess is they do so who rents to these SOBs?

Do SOs have to report their status to employers? My guess is they do so who hires these SOBs?

It's extreme risky bizness for both I just can't see anyone in their right mind doing it willingly.. How :crazy: is that?

In Louisiana, their picture is a little tiny thing in the newspaper announcing that he/she is an SO, and their address is posted. It is always in the ad section.

Most reputable landlords around here will have the prospective tenant go to the Police Dept. if in city limits or the Sheriff's Office if in the parish and get a criminal background check done. It is almost like a rap sheet. I think it costs $5.00 here.

Actually the only laws a person has to adhere to when renting privately owned property are the Fair Housing Laws. I guess if you want to rent to a LOT of SO's, then you can. I would call them Slimelords. I wonder how many of their rentals end up being crime scenes?

And yes, you are supposed to tell your employer but some do not. If you lie on your application, you can lose your job. I think people have a right to know if they are working with or near a SO.

ETA: I think when a SO gets out of prison wherever they live should have a picture sign in the yard stating "I am a Sexual Offender/Predator!"

Sleuthster
02-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Briefing on CNN live

www.cnn.com (http://www.cnn.com)

cant ever get it to work for me :(

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Me, too.

I wish we had more answers about:

the blankets
the van
the missing gun
cellphone records

I'm getting tired trying to determine who is related to whom how....

The blankets and the van are driving me nutz....that is a big piece of this puzzle.

alwaysonmymind
02-17-2009, 09:31 AM
Well....Ok. My bad on that. But, I still think it's hinky they are not talking to the media. Thanks for pointing that out. :blowkiss:


My guess: George could have suggested they cool it with the media....

moo

my_tee_mouse
02-17-2009, 09:31 AM
maybe haleigh wasn't required to attend school this year because of her age, but once she was signed up and going, then the attendence rules would apply to her?

or maybe someone did threaten ron with jail time, even if they couldn't actually enforce it? but ron wouldn't know that......

Maybe some friend or relative told him, "hey, if your kid misses so many days, you go to jail," or maybe there's a mandatory school attendance clause in the custody papers and, right or wrong, he thinks that means he can go to jail if she keeps missing school.

Becky319
02-17-2009, 09:33 AM
If it is against the law for Ron to actually be dating (living with) Misti, a 17 year old, who was 16 when they got together, in the long run isn't he a SO like like most of his neighbors? You can be labeled a SO if you are 19 dating a 16 in some states.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:33 AM
I think that one reason for the silence of the people from that neighborhood is that they are either living with, related to or otherwise a rso themselves. There are so many there!!!!!!!

Cakegirl
02-17-2009, 09:33 AM
Ron was out searching on horseback yesterday. I saw the video on the news.

Seeing Ron riding behind Tim Miller on that horse, out looking for his daughter... it broke my heart. :(

ROBLYN
02-17-2009, 09:34 AM
Me, too.

I wish we had more answers about:

the blankets
the van
the missing gun
cellphone records

I'm getting tired trying to determine who is related to whom how....

We need one of those family tree flow charts:) My notes are a mess!

Sorry for going OT again. But....Ugggggggg-okay, i'll move to the basement...

Seahorseladydi
02-17-2009, 09:34 AM
Good Morning sleuthers....

I have been thinking..... and it is just MY opinion.... but if LE does not come up with something soon..... I think people are going to start getting more frustrated and maybe loose intrest (I have seen this happen so many times).... we need something..... how many times can you beat a dead horse..... so to say... we NEED something NEW! anything!!

sorry, just had to vent that.....

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:35 AM
My guess: George could have suggested they cool it with the media....

moo


George needs to mind his own bidness. :furious:

curious_mom
02-17-2009, 09:35 AM
Live News Conference coming up:

(supposed to start at 9:30 but hasn't yet :()

http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/18725145/detail.html (http://www.wesh.com/video/16456665/index.html)

New check points set up last night

More interviews done last night, which brought in several new leads they are now following up on

These could have been people they missed in first check points which is why just now getting this info

Will not discuss in more detail

Will not comment if they believe Misty was home all night as she stated

Will not comment if new leads point out of state or not

Will do another presser around 4 something (sorry, missed it)

Sleuthster
02-17-2009, 09:36 AM
I think it is already over, couldnt get it to work.Did anyone see it?

LaLaw2000
02-17-2009, 09:36 AM
Me, too.

I wish we had more answers about:

the blankets
the van
the missing gun
cellphone records

I'm getting tired trying to determine who is related to whom how....


I think they are all related either by blood or marriage or remarriage! :crazy:

It would be great to have all of those answers! I am still sticking with my belief that the was no phone in the home and that Ronald had the only cell phone with him.

ROBLYN
02-17-2009, 09:36 AM
Seeing Ron riding behind Tim Miller on that horse, out looking for his daughter... it broke my heart. :(

OT/ Alert thread going of the rails....But, me too:( And the photo of Jr on Tim's lap(on the horse):(....back on track.

tehcloser
02-17-2009, 09:36 AM
Good Morning sleuthers....

I have been thinking..... and it is just MY opinion.... but if LE does not come up with something soon..... I think people are going to start getting more frustrated and maybe loose intrest (I have seen this happen so many times).... we need something..... how many times can you beat a dead horse..... so to say... we NEED something NEW! anything!!

sorry, just had to vent that.....

Excellent post! I think people are already loosing interest. This silence can hurt more than it helps.

pirate
02-17-2009, 09:39 AM
Just a thought- could LE be hoping for less interest so this situation doesn't get tangled up with monetary gain issues like the Anthony case did?

ElizaAvalon
02-17-2009, 09:40 AM
What's going on with this news conference?

I have a bad feeling.