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WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 02:31 PM
http://www.news4jax.com/video/18763765/index.html

Below is what I transcribed from the video:

Crystal says - "When I seen him when he came and seen me on his visitiation all he said was "I want to find my sissy." and he said something about someone in black took her. He said they were all dressed in black but I didn't question him, I'm not going to question him. "

See this is why I wondered if they had questioned this boy at all and apperently they hadn't. RJ told his Mommy that "men in black" took his sissy. Crystal said she didn't want a question him whch IMO was a good thing. Little kids pick on up on things fast. All they would need to do was get a professional involved in questioning him(which they have I guess) and they might able to figure stuff out. This is interesting info and could very well be true if they look into it.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:35 PM
http://www.news4jax.com/video/18763765/index.html

See this is why I wondered if they had questioned this boy at all and apperently they hadn't. RJ told his Mommy that "men in black" took his sissy. Crystal said she didn't want a question him whch IMO was a good thing. Little kids pick on up on things fast. All they would need to do was get a professional involved in questioning him(which they have I guess) and they might able to figure stuff out. This is interesting info and could very well be true if they look into it.

So,it sounds like if "men" came to get her in black,it was planned.I hope Daddy doesn't owe money or tick the wrong people off.This means RJ was up and someone unlocked that back door.Men would not need to go in together,only one to get her.And they would not need to place a brick in screen door.If they wore black they would most likely have gloves,so wouldn't be picking up anything for DNA purposes.

PinkyPoo
02-21-2009, 02:36 PM
WOW!

I'm sure LE has people that know how to get information from a child. Hopefully he will be a big help.

NSC
02-21-2009, 02:37 PM
:banghead:

Did they have a professional talk to RCJR in the beginning??? Man in black!!!! I trust LE is handling this the right way, I think they don't want to compromise their position and they are on the right track. I only pray!

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Sounds like payback till you give me my money.I have felt he knew when he was threatening he would kill "them".Could be why LE is tight lipped and worried about her safety,those drug people are crazy and dangerous,if it's that.

JenBMomto3
02-21-2009, 02:39 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:41 PM
You know another thing,Crystal is not going to give out that info unless there's a real lead,that would be stupid.If it was my child,I would not say anything,but I've not seen much common sense here,Sorry,just saying.I think she needs to be quiet and let LE do thier job,just because they're not telling family anything,doesn't mean they're not doing everything they can.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:42 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.

Oh my,you're right,it was almost four am,he wakes up and LE is everywhere,maybe he thinks they are the ones who took her,very interesting.How sad for this little child,he'll always remember that time.

raeann
02-21-2009, 02:43 PM
I have felt this since the very beginning...the 911 call sounded as if he KNEW that someone in particular had threatened the possibility of taking Haleigh. If this person(s) also knew that MC left the children alone at times....just made their goal easier.

Sorry....the quote didn't show up for this post.....I meant that RON knew from the first that it was related to some sort of a previous threat.

Mamie
02-21-2009, 02:45 PM
He should have been questioned by a professional, long before he went home with his mother.

I would have so many other questions. Was Haleigh asleep? Where was Misty? Did Misty say anything? Was it dark out? Did you hear anything?

I am over 50 and I couldn't have resisted asking him questions, if I was his mom.

He has to be thinking that they will come get him, too.

Aries72
02-21-2009, 02:46 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.

This is kinda what I'm thinking too plus someone who took the time to dress in black wouldn't have turned a light on IMO.

babycat
02-21-2009, 02:46 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.

REALLY good point...maybe they should ask him if he sees the "men in black" anywhere else...ask him to point, etc.

WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 02:46 PM
I could see this happening though b/c as I said kids pick up things. You have to remember this is a little 3 year old boy we are talking about here. If he woke up in the middle of the night to someone he didn't know taking his sissy he could have just been really scared himself. He could have been scared enough that didn't want to make noise in fear they would take him too.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:49 PM
The video says he said a "man" all in black,one man and he was talked to by people on what he said.A man all in black,it was planned.

babycat
02-21-2009, 02:49 PM
He should have been questioned by a professional, long before he went home with his mother.



He was. Says so in the news report linked. :)

WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 02:49 PM
He should have been questioned by a professional, long before he went home with his mother.

I would have so many other questions. Was Haleigh asleep? Where was Misty? Did Misty say anything? Was it dark out? Did you hear anything?

I am over 50 and I couldn't have resisted asking him questions, if I was his mom.

He has to be thinking that they will come get him, too.

I agree with you 110% on this. I have said this since day freaking one it was reported that the little girl was missing. I had tried calling into like HLN with Mike, Issues with JVM, and Nancy Grace a few times and the question that I was going to ask was "Has RJ been questioned yet."

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 02:50 PM
The Putnam County Sheriff's Office seems surprised about a lot of info that has already been widely reported. They are either lying through their teeth or totally incompetent.

The guy in black description bothers me, though. Too many children equate the black silhouetted figure in the overcoat and hat [that appeared on neighborhood watch signs] with "strangers".

I was surprised when I asked my pre-schooler one day if the UPS guy was a stranger or not and he said "no", he's not a stranger. Hopefully the stranger-danger education has improved since then.

Just thinking.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:51 PM
What color uniform would the deputy have on there when he first came in?

colomom
02-21-2009, 02:51 PM
I am not sure how much faith I have in what Crystal says, after all, she is Ron's sister and probably aware that some people are looking at him sideways.
*my mistake, disregard*:blushing:

Seems to me that in the last couple of days there has been mention made of "cousins or men in black" and it could be an effort to turn heads.

I would be more interested if this was reported by professionals that had interviewed Junior.

JenBMomto3
02-21-2009, 02:52 PM
I am sure LE has questioned him. It is CRUCIAL with children his age to be questioned by someone who is a proffessional. Children this age are LOOKING for someone to give the answer to them. Think how long you have been saying tell them your names Bobby. Tell daddy bye, bye for work. It is very easy to plant an idea in their head rather than Coax them to tell you what THEY saw or Know. The right wording is crucial.

And if they didn't question him about the day or that night and anything he saw heard or smelled (a different cologne, a stench from a homless man or one who doesn't shower often, a chemical somebody used to clean the house) in the dark, then that was a HUGE mistake on LE's part.

IMO

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 02:53 PM
What color uniform would the deputy have on there when he first came in?

Very dark green, probably.

WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 02:54 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.

What you said is possible but IDK if in this case thats what it is. Don't you think if he meant LE that with them being around every day that he'd see them and maybe point to them and tell whoever it is he's with "thats who took my sissy." IDK I could be wrong. Cause like I said kids blurt stuff out they don't know social skills just yet! lol

djk
02-21-2009, 02:54 PM
it's very strange to me that the mother states she did not question the boy and is not going to question the boy about what he said. I'm not a father but I would think one of the instincts of a parent in a situation like this would be to find as many answers as possible from the child.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:55 PM
This was the BioMom Crystal,not Crystal the sister,but she still should have kept quiet.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:56 PM
Very dark green, probably.

Thank you,they're brown here,so didn't know if green or brown there.If he was being taken out of trailer and seeing officers in dark searching he could be perceiving this as them taking her.He's just a baby.

WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 02:57 PM
I am not sure how much faith I have in what Crystal says, after all, she is Ron's sister and probably aware that some people are looking at him sideways.
*my mistake, disregard*:blushing:

Seems to me that in the last couple of days there has been mention made of "cousins or men in black" and it could be an effort to turn heads.

I would be more interested if this was reported by professionals that had interviewed Junior.

This was Crystal Sheffield Haleigh and RJ's biomom. RJ told his Mom that information and she didn't want to be the one to question him which like I said was a good thing.

colomom
02-21-2009, 02:57 PM
This was the BioMom Crystal,not Crystal the sister,but she still should have kept quiet.

Oh, sorry, my mistake. So it is only her word and it has not been confirmed by anyone else then, right?

babycat
02-21-2009, 02:57 PM
it's very strange to me that the mother states she did not question the boy and is not going to question the boy about what he said. I'm not a father but I would think one of the instincts of a parent in a situation like this would be to find as many answers as possible from the child.


Me too. Just in case there was something he was scared to tell the police, but not his mother.

WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 02:58 PM
it's very strange to me that the mother states she did not question the boy and is not going to question the boy about what he said. I'm not a father but I would think one of the instincts of a parent in a situation like this would be to find as many answers as possible from the child.

I think it is a good thing she didn't question him on this. You need a PROFESSINAL to handle a child of this age when it comes to a case such as this one.

JenBMomto3
02-21-2009, 02:58 PM
men or man in Black, men or man took sissy out the BACK. As in Door????

winterrose
02-21-2009, 02:58 PM
it's very strange to me that the mother states she did not question the boy and is not going to question the boy about what he said. I'm not a father but I would think one of the instincts of a parent in a situation like this would be to find as many answers as possible from the child.

She was probably told before she got him that weekend if he says anything,don't question him,let us know.I believe that's what they do with all children witnesses to anything,keeps it fresh and untainted.Kids will clam up if overquestioned and get confused.

Jodibug
02-21-2009, 02:59 PM
I am not sure how much faith I have in what Crystal says, after all, she is Ron's sister and probably aware that some people are looking at him sideways.
*my mistake, disregard*:blushing:

Crystal is not Ron's sister.... she is his (ex) wife. I believe they are separated but not divorced.

Wise Old Owl
02-21-2009, 03:00 PM
They were never married.

babycat
02-21-2009, 03:00 PM
I think it is a good thing she didn't question him on this. You need a PROFESSINAL to handle a child of this age when it comes to a case such as this one.

He was questioned by professionals immediately after the incident, if I understood that news link correctly. I'd certainly question him again when I got home, if I were his mom. I'd think he'd be more candid and comfortable with his own mother.

JenBMomto3
02-21-2009, 03:00 PM
Crystal Sheffield Haleighs Biological mom
Cristal Cummings Ronalds( Haleighs biological dad) sister

doogiesgirl
02-21-2009, 03:01 PM
That will haunt this poor little one for the rest of his life. I just pray that his info helps to find her. Thank God he finally spoke out. How afraid he must have been. This is just so sad but at least it is new news. moo

cajun
02-21-2009, 03:01 PM
Those new pictures of Haleigh are so cute, especially the first day of school.

If indeed there was someone dressed in black it's because they aren't wanting to be seen. I'm still thinking it's a child predator.. wasn't there a full moon on the night she disappeared? I hope that LE got some good info from Jr.

cajun
02-21-2009, 03:03 PM
Crystal is not Ron's sister.... she is his (ex) wife. I believe they are separated but not divorced.
They were never married, as far as I know.

DotsEyes
02-21-2009, 03:03 PM
It took Elizabeth Smart little sister a long, long time to talk about what she saw the night ES was taken from her second story bedroom that they shared. Eventually, she gave a name that the man was known by in the community.

No one pressed the little girl. I suppose there is a reason for this and surely professionals are there to "de-brief" the little fellow.

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 03:04 PM
Crystal is not Ron's sister.... she is his (ex) wife. I believe they are separated but not divorced.

Ron does have sister named Crystal/Cristal, also. She's the one with the bad hair from yesterday's press conference. [Kept talking about a pedo-fire. Sorry, I bust out into giggles just remembering that.]

babycat
02-21-2009, 03:06 PM
Yep,you know I realize the media is in thier face all the time and they might feel like people could be pointing fingers at them,but how stupid,it's about Haleigh's safety if she is w/a kidnapper.If the LE wanted that out there,they would have said it.I just want to slap her for stupidity!:sheesh:

Harsh words for someone who just had their child abducted:( Maybe she wasn't thinking when she said it. It happens to all of us.

not_my_kids
02-21-2009, 03:06 PM
On this one, I have to go with the people that said he may have seen the police afterwards and gotten confused. He may even have had a nightmare that night about men in black and then woke up to find his sister gone.
I am not saying that RC is lying, so don't tear me apart for that. But there are reasons that child witnesses are unreliable.

kiki the parrot
02-21-2009, 03:07 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.


Very dark green, probably.

I can possibly see a three (almost four) year-old becoming confused if he didn't wake up until LE was there. Here is crime scene photo--frame #14 shows what he might refer to as "men in black." But MAN in black is different IMO, and could just be what SO/perp happened to be wearing. Hopefully trained psych. was used to help Jr. to verbalize more. If accurate, it means there was someone besides gf involved anyway. JMO

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-haleigh-cummings-photos,0,705399.photogallery

:parrot:

colomom
02-21-2009, 03:08 PM
Harsh words for someone who just had their child abducted:( Maybe she wasn't thinking when she said it. It happens to all of us.

*bolded by me*

I do not believe that this has been determined yet....

babycat
02-21-2009, 03:09 PM
I do not believe that this has been determined yet....

Well, I'm sure we can agree that she is missing. And the police are investigating it as an abduction, or am I mistaken?

poco
02-21-2009, 03:10 PM
Is it possible that somehow Ron and Misty told him (before LE arrived or even before they made the 911 call) that "some men in black" came and took your sister.

colomom
02-21-2009, 03:14 PM
Well, I'm sure we can agree that she is missing. And the police are investigating it as an abduction, or am I mistaken?

If they were only investigating it as an abduction they would be rotten detectives. They have said they have not ruled anything out yet.

Shaymus at The Rock
02-21-2009, 03:15 PM
I am not sure how much faith I have in what Crystal says, after all, she is Ron's sister and probably aware that some people are looking at him sideways.
*my mistake, disregard*:blushing:

Seems to me that in the last couple of days there has been mention made of "cousins or men in black" and it could be an effort to turn heads.

I would be more interested if this was reported by professionals that had interviewed Junior.

I agree. Pointing fingers at unknown "bad guys" is a bad sign, IMO. I think the wagons are being circled.

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 03:18 PM
I agree. Pointing fingers at unknown "bad guys" is a bad sign, IMO. I think the wagons are being circled.

The old SOD defense, a la Nancy Grace: Some Other Dude.

kiki the parrot
02-21-2009, 03:22 PM
After listening again CS clearly says "MAN" (vs men), and when finishing her sentence uses pronoun "they" I believe still in a singular context. IOW she uses "they" but still referring to one man (ie, "he"). It is the key info Jr. could give LE, and clearly topic on which interviewer would have focused Jr. The significance or implication of it would seem to possibly ease some of the suspicion re gf's direct involvement. I think there is a high probabilty there was a male intruder, wearing dark clothing, witnessed by Jr. that night--while gf was gone. JMO

:parrot:

Carla Lashelle
02-21-2009, 03:25 PM
The Putnam County Sheriff's Office seems surprised about a lot of info that has already been widely reported. They are either lying through their teeth or totally incompetent.



Its Florida I vote for the latter

I asked all along if they had questioned Junior. he is old enough to be able to articulate SOMETHING.

tiredofthis
02-21-2009, 03:27 PM
He should have been questioned by a professional, long before he went home with his mother.

I would have so many other questions. Was Haleigh asleep? Where was Misty? Did Misty say anything? Was it dark out? Did you hear anything?

I am over 50 and I couldn't have resisted asking him questions, if I was his mom.

He has to be thinking that they will come get him, too.

The poor child must be scared out of his mind. I'm with you, I wouldn't have been able to resist asking him questions.

jaimie43
02-21-2009, 03:30 PM
men or man in Black, men or man took sissy out the BACK. As in Door????

Or maybe he meant a black man???

JenBMomto3
02-21-2009, 03:35 PM
Or maybe he meant a black man???


Or that to. You could look at it anyway you like but it all still = Haleigh's missing.

I am hoping LE atleast has an inkling of what happened or what might have transpired that night.

Prayers for Haleigh and her family:angel:

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Or maybe he meant a black man???

There are very few black people in that area. It is "integrated", but the non-whites are Laotian or Hispanic. [just fyi, I live there, here, whatever.]

babycat
02-21-2009, 03:40 PM
If they were only investigating it as an abduction they would be rotten detectives. They have said they have not ruled anything out yet.

It doesn't affect my original opinion either way.

shadow of my mind
02-21-2009, 03:45 PM
Man in black

An African-American to a small child dressed in dark colored clothing.
Someone dressed is motorcycle riding gear leathers.
A person dressed in a business suit like on the cover of the movie Men in Black if Jr. knows about that movie and has seen the cover. [He would have to be familiar enough with it make the association]
Someone wearing ‘goth’ style clothing.
A person who wears a very dark shade uniform as in LE or even someone who wears a uniform as a waiter or waitress, auto mechanic, delivery driver or custodial service clothing in dark colors.
Anyone wearing a dark shirt, sweatshirt, jacket and pants be it a dark shade of brown, green, blue or black.
Anyone wearing a hood or mask may appear to be a man in black.
A person standing in the dark or shadow may appear to be a man in black.

Can anyone else add to the list of possibilities of what Jr. could have meant.

Sissy1355
02-21-2009, 03:47 PM
I agree. Pointing fingers at unknown "bad guys" is a bad sign, IMO. I think the wagons are being circled.

No one has said it is an "unknown" bad guy. In fact LE isn't saying much of anything about this case. I see no reason for Crystal to lie about this, if Misty IS involved (not sure it is the case) WHY would she cover for her?? Doesn't make any sense to me.

My 4 yr. old niece answered the phone the other day. her mom said to tell them she wasn't home. So she tells them "my mommy said that she isn't here." If Jr. was told to say this about the "man" then I'm sure he quickly told who it was that wanted him to say it.

catch_22
02-21-2009, 03:50 PM
so did jr just go back to sleep after his sister got took?

colomom
02-21-2009, 03:50 PM
It doesn't affect my original opinion either way.

Certainly not my intention as I only hope anyone "sleuthing" this case keeps a completely open mind.

babycat
02-21-2009, 03:54 PM
Certainly not my intention as I only hope anyone "sleuthing" this case keeps a completely open mind.


I always keep an open mind:) My statement was that I felt it was harsh to want to "slap the stupidity" out of someone whose child was abducted OR missing, when the child wasn't even in her care. That is my opinion. Obviously, you aren't required to agree with it;) But it has nothing to do with how I am sleuthing the case. Keeping an open mind doesn't mean I can't form opinions.

tehcloser
02-21-2009, 03:55 PM
I just don't know. Sounds like the typical boogie man to me. Well actually my first thought was the Movie... I'm kinda like the other poster pointed out....why go to all the trouble to dress in black....then turn on the light?

Sissy1355
02-21-2009, 03:57 PM
On a personal note: seeing him call her sissy breaks my heart. My g-ma and sis called me that when I was younger and my nieces and nephews call me that today.

I hope no matter what the outcome of this case they get this poor boy some help. I'm sure he is hurting right now and confused about what is going on. It could lead to many problems down the road.

colomom
02-21-2009, 03:57 PM
No one has said it is an "unknown" bad guy. In fact LE isn't saying much of anything about this case. I see no reason for Crystal to lie about this, if Misty IS involved (not sure it is the case) WHY would she cover for her?? Doesn't make any sense to me.

My 4 yr. old niece answered the phone the other day. her mom said to tell them she wasn't home. So she tells them "my mommy said that she isn't here." If Jr. was told to say this about the "man" then I'm sure he quickly told who it was that wanted him to say it.

The point is that when some perps have been scrutinized they have attempted to offer the possibility of an "unknown bad guy" being responsible. The way Misty said she didn't know about the cousin, he was a criminal and she didn't trust him, reminded me of that.

The "men in black" reference could be an attempt by Crystal to turn eyes away from herself. Some people have wondered if she might be responsible for Haleigh's vanishing.

That's what is meant by the "unknown bad guy".

ArizonaGiGi
02-21-2009, 04:00 PM
I just don't know. Sounds like the typical boogie man to me. Well actually my first thought was the Movie... I'm kinda like the other poster pointed out....why go to all the trouble to dress in black....then turn on the light?

What if Misty was not there and Haleigh was afraid to be alone at night with just her little brother so she turned the lights on and went to bed?

Sissy1355
02-21-2009, 04:08 PM
COLOMOM

I agree with you about pointing the blame at others. I was mighty suspicious of Crystal in the beginning, not sure what to think now. It just aggrivates me how tight lipped LE has been. I can understand not revealing sensitive info, but why not say she was in school? Why are they not mentioning her TUrner's more? Why no mention of the birthmark? I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to think LE is as clueless as we are.

colomom
02-21-2009, 04:14 PM
COLOMOM

I agree with you about pointing the blame at others. I was mighty suspicious of Crystal in the beginning, not sure what to think now. It just aggrivates me how tight lipped LE has been. I can understand not revealing sensitive info, but why not say she was in school? Why are they not mentioning her TUrner's more? Why no mention of the birthmark? I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I'm beginning to think LE is as clueless as we are.

I know what you mean Sissy. I just posted on the LE Presser thread that I don't even bother tuning into those because they seem to be all defensive and they never offer much of anything. People (and the press) will lose interest which is a disservice to Haleigh. I get the distinct feeling that LE does not want any help on this case, they can handle it just fine, thank you very much. I had so much faith in LE in Maddie's case too but, like you about this case, I am not so sure anymore.

Poor Haleigh.

BetsyB
02-21-2009, 04:17 PM
Man in black

An African-American to a small child dressed in dark colored clothing.
Someone dressed is motorcycle riding gear leathers.
A person dressed in a business suit like on the cover of the movie Men in Black if Jr. knows about that movie and has seen the cover. [He would have to be familiar enough with it make the association]
Someone wearing ‘goth’ style clothing.
A person who wears a very dark shade uniform as in LE or even someone who wears a uniform as a waiter or waitress, auto mechanic, delivery driver or custodial service clothing in dark colors.
Anyone wearing a dark shirt, sweatshirt, jacket and pants be it a dark shade of brown, green, blue or black.
Anyone wearing a hood or mask may appear to be a man in black.
A person standing in the dark or shadow may appear to be a man in black.

Can anyone else add to the list of possibilities of what Jr. could have meant.Yes. A "man in black" could be an imaginary bogeyman the little boy concocted to help make sense out of a senseless situation. Kids like answers. If they don't have them, they create them. This is why they have to be handled with kid gloves when they're being questioned--they're very suggestible.

pirate
02-21-2009, 04:23 PM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.


They wear green in Putnam County.

Elphaba
02-21-2009, 04:23 PM
Or... it was planted in his head by someone. Just saying... a big possibility.

tiredofthis
02-21-2009, 04:25 PM
Or... it was planted in his head by someone. Just saying... a big possibility.

I hadn't thought of that.

not_my_kids
02-21-2009, 04:26 PM
A man in a black vehicle?

I know when my daughter was younger, if she didn't know the word for something, she just wouldn't say it. Like if she wanted to say "CAn I have a hot dog?" It would usually come out "Can I have a hot?" until she learned the word dog.
Not knowing Jr's verbal skill level makes this even harder to decipher.

pirate
02-21-2009, 04:26 PM
it's very strange to me that the mother states she did not question the boy and is not going to question the boy about what he said. I'm not a father but I would think one of the instincts of a parent in a situation like this would be to find as many answers as possible from the child.

LE probably instructed them not to. The story needs to remain clear in his mind and I'm sure it's being handled on a professional and emotionless level.

impatientredhead
02-21-2009, 04:26 PM
He was awake but doesn't recogonize the cousin who had visited?

The intruder woke the 4 year old but not Misty?

Goes back to was she even there, IMO.

pirate
02-21-2009, 04:27 PM
Crystal is not Ron's sister.... she is his (ex) wife. I believe they are separated but not divorced.

Ron and Crystal Sheffield were never married.

And Ron does have a sister named Crystal also.

pirate
02-21-2009, 04:31 PM
I always keep an open mind:) My statement was that I felt it was harsh to want to "slap the stupidity" out of someone whose child was abducted OR missing, when the child wasn't even in her care. That is my opinion. Obviously, you aren't required to agree with it;) But it has nothing to do with how I am sleuthing the case. Keeping an open mind doesn't mean I can't form opinions.

:woohoo:

So right, Babycat.

alwaysonmymind
02-21-2009, 04:39 PM
Maybe JR is remembering the night when LE came to the house to take the report and look for Haleigh.

He goes to bed- Haleigh is there. (If this is the truth.)
He wakes up- his Dad is yelling, screaming, whining, crying. This has to be very frightening to such a young child.
The police are there with black clothes on and Haleigh is gone.

Maybe in his mind he has connected this. moo

I AM THE 14 CAR
02-21-2009, 04:42 PM
There are very few black people in that area. It is "integrated", but the non-whites are Laotian or Hispanic. [just fyi, I live there, here, whatever.]


I am sure that of anyone, you would know, since you live there....but....early on, I saw a photo of "family members" and there was a man of color in that photo.

Dont get me wrong....I am NOT in any way accusing him...just throwing it out there. May he have relatives or friends that need a look into ? Surely theres at least a few "black men" in the general area...or maybe works with Ron & wasnt at work that night, or ???????

Who knows.

I AM THE 14 CAR
02-21-2009, 04:49 PM
What if Misty was not there and Haleigh was afraid to be alone at night with just her little brother so she turned the lights on and went to bed?

Good Point. I've been trying to think of "why" that light would have turned on.

What if Misty turned on the light (before she stepped out) ? Actually Im still not totally convinced that she ever left but if she did, maybe she turned it on for whatever reason...she could of turned it on , then forgot to turn it off WHEN she left... somebody could have been watching the home....so they (he) would know that she wasnt there & the light was on...he wouldnt of turned it OFF, I dont think. He would of just hauled butt out of there.

Carla Lashelle
02-21-2009, 04:55 PM
When Anne Pressly was assaulted in her house in Little Rock, one of the things her mom noticed when she came to the house was that inside and outside lights had been turned on (by the suspect).

I AM THE 14 CAR
02-21-2009, 04:55 PM
Maybe JR is remembering the night when LE came to the house to take the report and look for Haleigh.

He goes to bed- Haleigh is there. (If this is the truth.)
He wakes up- his Dad is yelling, screaming, whining, crying. This has to be very frightening to such a young child.
The police are there with black clothes on and Haleigh is gone.

Maybe in his mind he has connected this. moo

I would think that this scenario could be proved one way or the other very easyly. A professional needs to ask him.

If the "man in black" thing is positivly correct....I would think LE would change the investigation in a way to use this info to find the perp. The public could be a HUGE help with that.....IF LE told the public.

Surely somebody would remember seeing a person in black. Maybe somebodys son leaving their home wearing all black or whatever. Or somebody at a gas station that night wearing all black ?

distracted
02-21-2009, 05:04 PM
After listening again CS clearly says "MAN" (vs men), and when finishing her sentence uses pronoun "they" I believe still in a singular context. IOW she uses "they" but still referring to one man (ie, "he"). It is the key info Jr. could give LE, and clearly topic on which interviewer would have focused Jr. The significance or implication of it would seem to possibly ease some of the suspicion re gf's direct involvement. I think there is a high probabilty there was a male intruder, wearing dark clothing, witnessed by Jr. that night--while gf was gone. JMO

:parrot:

She does say "man" and she also said "somebody."

jcamille
02-21-2009, 05:14 PM
Me too. Just in case there was something he was scared to tell the police, but not his mother.


No, I think the guidelines are for the family not to question small children who have witnessed crimes because the family can inadvertently lead a child into saying things or thinking a certain way.

When little Blake (2 year old boy whose father murdered the mother) kept saying "mommy crying", "mommy break the lamp" "mommy in the rug," I remember the grandmother told Greta that the police had told her not to question him when he said these things, just to let him talk, so that he was saying what he actually remembered and not getting confused by someone questioning him who wasn't trained to question him.

KR2tonenow
02-21-2009, 05:14 PM
11 days later, now we hear this. Has a reporter picked this up yet, the press conference didn't really have anything new to offer.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 05:18 PM
Wouldn't Jr freak out and run and tell Misty and she would have immediately called RC and 911?She didn't mention it in the LE report or interviews about a man in black,I think he's thinking the officers that came to house.RC would have asked him right then what he saw.This happened on early Tuesday morning and they got Jr that Friday night for the weekend,wouldn't he have been asked or mentioned this that week?If Jr saw the man come in the room and it was dark,he could think he
had dark clothing,but I really don't think he would have turned the light on.

panthera
02-21-2009, 05:20 PM
I just don't know. Sounds like the typical boogie man to me. Well actually my first thought was the Movie... I'm kinda like the other poster pointed out....why go to all the trouble to dress in black....then turn on the light?
It kind of contradicts itself, imo. Wearing dark clothing, maybe not all black but at night can be mistaken for black, and then turning on a kitchen light doesn't make sense unless the perp knew there wasn't an adult in the house. And Jr. is old enough that if he had gotten a good look at the perp could've given a description what he looked like. It's still confusing.

panthera
02-21-2009, 05:21 PM
When Anne Pressly was assaulted in her house in Little Rock, one of the things her mom noticed when she came to the house was that inside and outside lights had been turned on (by the suspect).
Anne was also the only one in the house. In this case there are supposedly two other people who could've identified the perp if he were seen.

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 05:24 PM
I am sure that of anyone, you would know, since you live there....but....early on, I saw a photo of "family members" and there was a man of color in that photo.

Dont get me wrong....I am NOT in any way accusing him...just throwing it out there. May he have relatives or friends that need a look into ? Surely theres at least a few "black men" in the general area...or maybe works with Ron & wasnt at work that night, or ???????

Who knows.

It was from someone's bachelor party?

Also, only ONE in whole group of white guys. Seems like the groom lived over in Flagler or Volusia county.

btw - I realized that you weren't trying to implicate anybody based on race, just the little boy's description. Unfortunately, things on another thread are looking like the kid may have spoken correctly by saying "in" black.

WillenFan21
02-21-2009, 05:32 PM
What if Misty was not there and Haleigh was afraid to be alone at night with just her little brother so she turned the lights on and went to bed?

Omg you could be on to something there.

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 05:34 PM
People do have to realize Rj is not a baby. In the case of Jessie Davis, her son at 2yo told the tale quite readily of his mother's murder. Rj was essentially 4yo. If they have not had a professional question him and did not do this immediately then they made a huge mistake.

He would know the difference in a policeman and a "man in black", imo. If he thought it was a policeman, he would have pointed one out to his mother or father because he would be afraid of them.

Rj could actually have seen someone in the house. However, we don't know if it was an "invited" guest of MC's or not. We still don't know the AC guy, his clothing, or his role at the time he was in the house.

catch_22
02-21-2009, 05:35 PM
how can you kidnap someone in the dark? maybe the perp was wearing night-vision goggles? then the batteries died so he had to turn on a light so he could see.......

winterrose
02-21-2009, 05:36 PM
Harsh words for someone who just had their child abducted:( Maybe she wasn't thinking when she said it. It happens to all of us.

Oh sorry Babycat,just a southern expression,it's not like anyone would really do it.I am however very disturbed of what's been happening for awhile and noone's done anything about it.She said the kids told her they were being hit,they were begging to not have to go back,what is wrong with her?She's had charges against him of being abused and she didn't question this and have it investigated before something like this would happen?I am going to watch GR tonight,even though I don't like watching him to see what is up w/the pic of Haleigh he's talking about.It has been upsetting me all day.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 05:37 PM
how can you kidnap someone in the dark? maybe the perp was wearing night-vision goggles? then the batteries died so he had to turn on a light so he could see.......

The neighbors said it was a full moon and I think a couple of street lights,but they said there was lighting outside.

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 05:39 PM
Btw~ If the video clearly said, "Man" in black...the title of this thread needs to change to reflect it. Thanks!

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 05:40 PM
The neighbors said it was a full moon and I think a couple of street lights,but they said there was lighting outside.Not only a full moon, but a bright one...plus there are two skylights inside the house (one in the master bedroom).

catch_22
02-21-2009, 05:40 PM
People do have to realize Rj is not a baby. In the case of Jessie Davis, her son at 2yo told the tale quite readily of his mother's murder. Rj was essentially 4yo. If they have not had a professional question him and did not do this immediately then they made a huge mistake.

He would know the difference in a policeman and a "man in black", imo. If he thought it was a policeman, he would have pointed one out to his mother or father because he would be afraid of them.

Rj could actually have seen someone in the house. However, we don't know if it was an "invited" guest of MC's or not. We still don't know the AC guy, his clothing, or his role at the time he was in the house.

i have to believe that jr was questioned.

i'm far from putting too much into what he supposedly said at this point, though.

i find it hard to believe that biomom didn't ask him about it.

it's possibly jr was "coached" to say this too.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 05:42 PM
And I can't believe we're being forced to watch GR,stopped watching him since he became a show for the defense.:mad: And I hope someone tells him Crystal's child is Chloe,goodness.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 05:43 PM
Not only a full moon, but a bright one...plus there are two skylights inside the house (one in the master bedroom).

Oh yes,it was two skylights,thank you,I knew it was two lightsources.

catch_22
02-21-2009, 05:45 PM
Not only a full moon, but a bright one...plus there are two skylights inside the house (one in the master bedroom).

i already wasn't big on an intruder theory, and i think i just changed my mind and now agree that it is rather unlikely for an intruder to turn a light on.

WholeLottaRosie
02-21-2009, 05:45 PM
This is kinda what I'm thinking too plus someone who took the time to dress in black wouldn't have turned a light on IMO.


Unless they mostly wear black. Then it is a no brainer.

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 05:46 PM
All I can say is that I am glad Blake's grandmother (Patty Davis) didn't hesitate to believe what the 2yo told her and put stock into it!! He was right.

I will take the word of a 4yo over the carp we have been hearing from the 17yo in this case! She makes no sense at all half the time.

Right now, I don't know what to believe coming from the adults in this case.

panthera
02-21-2009, 05:47 PM
Not only a full moon, but a bright one...plus there are two skylights inside the house (one in the master bedroom).
Which leads me to believe the perp wouldn't have needed to turn on the kitchen light.

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 05:49 PM
Which leads me to believe the perp wouldn't have needed to turn on the kitchen light.Maybe he wouldn't need to...but did anyway. ;)

winterrose
02-21-2009, 05:52 PM
All I can say is that I am glad Blake's grandmother (Patty Davis) didn't hesitate to believe what the 2yo told her and put stock into it!! He was right.

I will take the word of a 4yo over the carp we have been hearing from the 17yo in this case! She makes no sense at all half the time.

Right now, I don't know what to believe coming from the adults in this case.

Well,if that isn't the truth.I still feel like she's a unrefined KC as far as in the truth dept.IMO And this is what is disturbing me,also.

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 05:59 PM
I know what you mean Sissy. I just posted on the LE Presser thread that I don't even bother tuning into those because they seem to be all defensive and they never offer much of anything. People (and the press) will lose interest which is a disservice to Haleigh. I get the distinct feeling that LE does not want any help on this case, they can handle it just fine, thank you very much. I had so much faith in LE in Maddie's case too but, like you about this case, I am not so sure anymore.

Poor Haleigh.

I have had this feeling since day 1 (hate that expression). Been griping about since then too. I have gotten the distinct feeling that LE there would be just as happy if Media, volunteers and everyone else would just pack up and go home. They, LE do not like the microscope they are under and haven't. They are rude, arrogant and condescending in their pressers and I do not like it. Complete opposite of OCSO, at least they OCSO acted like they appreciated the help people were offering. JMO.

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:00 PM
Maybe he wouldn't need to...but did anyway. ;)
Must have forgotten his flashlight or just didn't care about illuminating the house. ;) Have we ever found out what window Misty took the blanket down from? That would also let in more moonlight.

catch_22
02-21-2009, 06:03 PM
Must have forgotten his flashlight or just didn't care about illuminating the house. ;) Have we ever found out what window Misty took the blanket down from? That would also let in more moonlight.

haven't heard for sure, but i'd think it would be safe to assume that it was from the master bedroom.

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 06:12 PM
If Haleigh wet herself, is it too far to assume she went into the kitchen, turned on the light, and removed her shirt and put it in the dirty laundry?

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:16 PM
haven't heard for sure, but i'd think it would be safe to assume that it was from the master bedroom.
You're probably right, if it was used to block out light during the day. And all three of them are asleep in that room with the full moon shining in through the window? :waitasec: Maybe I'm odd but the nights when the moon is like that I have to make sure the blinds are closed tightly or I can't sleep! MOO

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:17 PM
If Haleigh wet herself, is it too far to assume she went into the kitchen, turned on the light, and removed her shirt and put it in the dirty laundry?
Wouldn't her bed and whatever else she was wearing be wet too? Which, if this is what happened, I could see somebody getting just a little upset that she had to get up and change the bedding again. MOO

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:23 PM
It kind of contradicts itself, imo. Wearing dark clothing, maybe not all black but at night can be mistaken for black, and then turning on a kitchen light doesn't make sense unless the perp knew there wasn't an adult in the house. And Jr. is old enough that if he had gotten a good look at the perp could've given a description what he looked like. It's still confusing.

My thought is this...
If a man went to all the trouble of wearing all black in order to camoflauge himself in the night to watch this house to abduct a child out of said house in the middle of the night. Obviously he is watching the house, 1. sees the lights go out and knows everyone is in bed and waits until he thinks they are sleeping and he waits some more just to be sure.

Now he decideds to go..grabs a cinder block being very careful not to make any noise, ropes it to the screen, again not to make any noise, he has watched the place, doesn't want to wake the adult. Picks the backdoor lock because according to Misty it was locked, has to do this quietly. Intruder dressed in black, flips on kitchen light ( we know the light had to be turned on because in Misty's interview she said she noticed the kitchen light on and that is what led her to the kitchen and she noticed the back door open) makes his way silently (previous occupant said this could not happen due to creaky floors) to room where Misty, Haleigh and JR were asleep. Depending on which story of Misty's....
Intruder then walks into dark bedroom makes out Haleigh, reaches in a bed either with JR or Misty in it and picks up Haleigh. Obviously never waking Haleigh enough that she could alert Misty something was wrong. Could JR have been awakened? Yes and he was scared.
This Intruder then has to make his way carrying Haleigh back out of the creaky floored house carrying a 5 year old child without waking Haleigh up, hand over her mouth? Misty or any neighbors.
The kitchen light on means, why wear black? You flip a kitchen light on, that means neighbors could see in watching you, the Intruder abducting a child in the middle of the night, witnesses in the house if they wake up can identify you. Plus how did he know where the kichen light switch was?
JMO.

scandi
02-21-2009, 06:25 PM
Hi, We learned LE did question or talk to Jr right away, which I would take to mean within hours of arriving on the scene, before anyone could get to him.

If he said nothing at that time about men/man in black to the officers, the police are probably raising their eyebrow now, hearing this. It would be similar to Misty and Ron saying LE used the word 'cleared' re their Lie Detector tests.

What I question is a 4 yr old using the word 'black'. It seems out of his age group to think like that. To me it sounds more like an adult putting thoughts in his head.

So many times we hear about the remarkable things young children say and do. I think that is by far the exception to the norm. We know hardly anything about this little guy except his family and community environment and the lifestyle of his parents. That doesn't bode well with me in giving him any edge to knowing things the average child in America would.

I could be all wrong of course ;} And I mean nothing against this little guy in my saying that.

Trailerparkgirl
02-21-2009, 06:27 PM
so let me get this straight: junior saw a man wearing black? obviously, he was awake...so a 3yr old can wake up out of a deep sleep and a 17yr old can't?

if i'm going to "sneak" into someone's house to abduct a child, yes i would wear black, but i would not turn on the kitchen light! no wonder LE keeps on questioning MC!

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:29 PM
Wouldn't her bed and whatever else she was wearing be wet too? Which, if this is what happened, I could see somebody getting just a little upset that she had to get up and change the bedding again. MOO

Change it or put the child in bed with you and just change her bed in the morning.

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:32 PM
My thought is this...
If a man went to all the trouble of wearing all black in order to camoflauge himself in the night to watch this house to abduct a child out of said house in the middle of the night. Obviously he is watching the house, 1. sees the lights go out and knows everyone is in bed and waits until he thinks they are sleeping and he waits some more just to be sure.

Now he decideds to go..grabs a cinder block being very careful not to make any noise, ropes it to the screen, again not to make any noise, he has watched the place, doesn't want to wake the adult. Picks the backdoor lock because according to Misty it was locked, has to do this quietly. Intruder dressed in black, flips on kitchen light ( we know the light had to be turned on because in Misty's interview she said she noticed the kitchen light on and that is what led her to the kitchen and she noticed the back door open) makes his way silently (previous occupant said this could not happen due to creaky floors) to room where Misty, Haleigh and JR were asleep. Depending on which story of Misty's....
Intruder then walks into dark bedroom makes out Haleigh, reaches in a bed either with JR or Misty in it and picks up Haleigh. Obviously never waking Haleigh enough that she could alert Misty something was wrong. Could JR have been awakened? Yes and he was scared.
This Intruder then has to make his way carrying Haleigh back out of the creaky floored house carrying a 5 year old child without waking Haleigh up, hand over her mouth? Misty or any neighbors.
The kitchen light on means, why wear black? You flip a kitchen light on, that means neighbors could see in watching you, the Intruder abducting a child in the middle of the night, witnesses in the house if they wake up can identify you. Plus how did he know where the kichen light switch was?
JMO.
Your post just makes too much sense! :clap::clap::clap:

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:33 PM
Change it or put the child in bed with you and just change her bed in the morning.
So if you got up in the middle of the night to change the child's clothes, then you'd know she didn't have the shirt on that you told LE she did, right? :) MOO

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:35 PM
Change it or put the child in bed with you and just change her bed in the morning.

Remember, they only have the 2 blankets and if Haleigh was in bed with JR, there is 1 blanket, Misty had the blanket off the window. So, if Haleigh wet, that means Haleigh's and JR's blanket is wet and Misty is going to have to get up in the middle of the night and do laundry again. Don't think so. I think she would change Haleighs clothes and put Haleigh and JR in bed with Misty and her dry blanket off the window.

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:37 PM
So if you got up in the middle of the night to change the child's clothes, then you'd know she didn't have the shirt on that you told LE she did, right? :) MOO

If Haleigh wet her bed and she changed clothes, but this would affect JR too unless Misty just let him sleep in a wet bed.

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:39 PM
Remember, they only have the 2 blankets and if Haleigh was in bed with JR, there is 1 blanket, Misty had the blanket off the window. So, if Haleigh wet, that means Haleigh's and JR's blanket is wet and Misty is going to have to get up in the middle of the night and do laundry again. Don't think so. I think she would change Haleighs clothes and put Haleigh and JR in bed with Misty and her dry blanket off the window.
You're right, she would've run out of blankets ~ and yet the perp sneaks in (on the creaky floors ;)) after they're all in bed together and gets Haleigh out of there without waking Misty up ~ after she's already been awakened to change Haleigh's clothes. :waitasec:

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:40 PM
If Haleigh wet her bed and she changed clothes, but this would affect JR too unless Misty just let him sleep in a wet bed.
I think we're just as confused about this whole story as we were over a week ago! :) About what Jr. said though, I think it could be something he's imagined (like the boogey men kind of thing). MOO

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 06:41 PM
Well I'm sorry but, I WOULD have questioned my son. I would have gently and patiently talked to him about that night, and asked what he saw, heard, etc. ... I believe children observe and pick up more than we give them credit for.

I would STILL be talking to him about it ... a little here and a little there, in case I picked up important information, if it were my daughter missing, I'd do whatever it took!

And I don't believe it will scar him for life ... I was always worried when my sons were small, that everything would affect them always, and now they're grown, most time, they can't even remember the things I was worried about.

That's just my take on it .. if he DID see something, they need to find out what.

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:42 PM
You're right, she would've run out of blankets ~ and yet the perp sneaks in (on the creaky floors ;)) after they're all in bed together and gets Haleigh out of there without waking Misty up ~ after she's already been awakened to change Haleigh's clothes. :waitasec:

We don't know for a fact that Haleigh wet the bed. That is just speculation on someone's part.

Reannan
02-21-2009, 06:43 PM
The light on in the kitchen makes more sense to me now. If Misty wasn't home, and a "man in black" snuck into the home, he would have went from room to room looking to see who was there. After determining that there was NO adult in the house - why the heck would you NOT turn on the light? Misty's story makes absolutely NO sense, but her story about the pink shirt makes me think she is just being "stupid". If she told LE that Haleigh was wearing the pink shirt, and latter finds it in the dirty laundry (in the kitchen by the back door....right??) WHY would she then hand it over to the police and say "Oh, here it is! I have no idea how it got here!". If I had been her, and I had something to hide, and I found the shirt that I had told LE Haleigh was wearing, I would NEVER have turned it over to them! I would have said "No....that is a different shirt!"......assuming they would have even questioned me about it. Misty's discovery of the pink shirt after being let back in the home adds some credence to her story......IMHO......as stupid as that sounds. This case is full of twists and turns, and contains a mystery (Chad Reynolds) within a mystery (Haleigh). :waitasec:

Reannan
02-21-2009, 06:47 PM
Well I'm sorry but, I WOULD have questioned my son. I would have gently and patiently talked to him about that night, and asked what he saw, heard, etc. ... I believe children observe and pick up more than we give them credit for

I have imagined Ron questioning RJ from day one - probably within 5 minutes of getting home! Put yourself in Ron's shoes (horrible place to be, IMHO). You come home, and your "Stupid Beyotch Girlfriend" has allowed your child to be taken, but your SON is still there. NO WAY did RJ sleep after Ron got home.....NO WAY. First thing I would have done, is grab RJ by the shoulders and ask him what happened!!! Maybe that is why Ron was saying he was "going to shoot him thru the back of the police car". Maybe RJ DID tell Ron that a 'man in black' took Haleigh.

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:48 PM
Well I'm sorry but, I WOULD have questioned my son. I would have gently and patiently talked to him about that night, and asked what he saw, heard, etc. ... I believe children observe and pick up more than we give them credit for.

I would STILL be talking to him about it ... a little here and a little there, in case I picked up important information, if it were my daughter missing, I'd do whatever it took!

And I don't believe it will scar him for life ... I was always worried when my sons were small, that everything would affect them always, and now they're grown, most time, they can't even remember the things I was worried about.

That's just my take on it .. if he DID see something, they need to find out what.

It would be hard for me too unless LE reaally asked me not too, that it would not be beneficial for all involved. I would just have to do what I was told in that regard as they are supposed to be the experts.

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:48 PM
We don't know for a fact that Haleigh wet the bed. That is just speculation on someone's part.
Speculation or what Misty stated as a fact for having to take the blanket down from the window? I agree though, it would be great to know if Haleigh did have a bedwetting problem.

kiki the parrot
02-21-2009, 06:48 PM
If Haleigh wet herself, is it too far to assume she went into the kitchen, turned on the light, and removed her shirt and put it in the dirty laundry?


Wouldn't her bed and whatever else she was wearing be wet too? Which, if this is what happened, I could see somebody getting just a little upset that she had to get up and change the bedding again. MOO


Change it or put the child in bed with you and just change her bed in the morning.


So if you got up in the middle of the night to change the child's clothes, then you'd know she didn't have the shirt on that you told LE she did, right? :) MOO

These are all assuming gf was there to assist Haleigh though. Since hearing about discovery of pink shirt in laundry, I've suspected Haleigh did have an accident, at a time when no one (but Jr.) was there. :( And while she could be herself change her wet shirt and underpants, she couldn't at 5 have managed bedding. This too would suggest an intruder because it would explain why gf never knew Haleigh wasn't in same clothes as when gf left that nite. :mad:
JMO

:parrot:

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 06:52 PM
But she could have gone into the kitchen/ laundry to take her shirt off and put it into the dirty laundry...

Moo :)

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 06:54 PM
The light on in the kitchen makes more sense to me now. If Misty wasn't home, and a "man in black" snuck into the home, he would have went from room to room looking to see who was there. After determining that there was NO adult in the house - why the heck would you NOT turn on the light? Misty's story makes absolutely NO sense, but her story about the pink shirt makes me think she is just being "stupid". If she told LE that Haleigh was wearing the pink shirt, and latter finds it in the dirty laundry (in the kitchen by the back door....right??) WHY would she then hand it over to the police and say "Oh, here it is! I have no idea how it got here!". If I had been her, and I had something to hide, and I found the shirt that I had told LE Haleigh was wearing, I would NEVER have turned it over to them! I would have said "No....that is a different shirt!"......assuming they would have even questioned me about it. Misty's discovery of the pink shirt after being let back in the home adds some credence to her story......IMHO......as stupid as that sounds. This case is full of twists and turns, and contains a mystery (Chad Reynolds) within a mystery (Haleigh). :waitasec:

Eventhough I know it happens everyday, I just can't believe an intruder will go room to room to see who is in it. At my house any intruder playin' Room Roulette is goin' to lose. How did this intruder know after he flipped on the light that Misty wasn't sitting in the middle of the bed with a 357 Magnum pointed right at his forehead? Some intruders are stupid, but lucky I guess:mad:

winterrose
02-21-2009, 06:56 PM
And also,I believe it was the Hannah Montana pink shirt she wore to school that day?So she never had pjs on,never got ready for bed if it was what she wore to school.I need to find where she said that about what she wore that day.Also,her Grandma said she was a little Mommy.Some little girls will put thier clothes in dirty clothes,if she was by herself,she might have been taking care of her little brother.

kiki the parrot
02-21-2009, 06:59 PM
so let me get this straight: junior saw a man wearing black? obviously, he was awake...so a 3yr old can wake up out of a deep sleep and a 17yr old can't?

if i'm going to "sneak" into someone's house to abduct a child, yes i would wear black, but i would not turn on the kitchen light! no wonder LE keeps on questioning MC!

Not a drunk, wasted 17 year old and certainly not one who wasn't THERE. FWIW, I'm also thinking less along lines of "cat-burglar style all-in-black" clothing, and more along the lines of any SOB (including cousin) who was able to gain access (via stolen key, break-in, crime of opportunity or open invitation) and was just wearing dark clothing--which later a child Jr.s age may have identified simply as "black". JMO

:parrot:

panthera
02-21-2009, 06:59 PM
And also,I believe it was the Hannah Montana pink shirt she wore to school that day?So she never had pjs on,never got ready for bed if it was what she wore to school.I need to find where she said that about what she wore that day.
Misty said she found the pink shirt in the laundry when she was going to show LE what Haleigh wore to school the previous day. Very interesting if it's the same shirt!!

winterrose
02-21-2009, 07:00 PM
The great Grandma stopped by and brought clothes off,I wonder what she said she had on and Misty's brother stopped by,could he have noticed?

winterrose
02-21-2009, 07:01 PM
Misty said she found the pink shirt in the laundry when she was going to show LE what Haleigh wore to school the previous day. Very interesting if it's the same shirt!!

Yep,I paid attention to that,so if she got her ready for bed,wouldn't she have changed her?

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 07:04 PM
FWiW....I sometimes wear the same t-shirt to bed that I wore that day.

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 07:05 PM
Speculation or what Misty stated as a fact for having to take the blanket down from the window? I agree though, it would be great to know if Haleigh did have a bedwetting problem.

No, I believe what Mist said is true why she had to take the blanket down from the window, hers was in some van and Haleigh's smelled like urine. Misty covered Haleigh with a sheet and washed the blanket. This is speculation on my part, once the blanket dryed she placed it oh Haleigh. Now if haleigh had another wetting episode the night she was abducted is speculation on someone else's part not mine, I have not heard about that.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 07:06 PM
FWiW....I sometimes wear the same t-shirt to bed that I wore that day.

Yeah,but with kids you have to change them after thier baths or just dirty from the day,but especially her school clothes changed.

LeLe1953
02-21-2009, 07:07 PM
You know another thing,Crystal is not going to give out that info unless there's a real lead,that would be stupid.If it was my child,I would not say anything,but I've not seen much common sense here,Sorry,just saying.I think she needs to be quiet and let LE do thier job,just because they're not telling family anything,doesn't mean they're not doing everything they can.

I,m sorry, I just don't find bio mom believable. Not saying she isnt telling the truth, I just don't think so. It seems most of the players have changed their story more than once. I am not believing nothing about nothing until I see it confirmed by LE.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 07:09 PM
If a child peed on her blanket,you'd wash the sheets too and why wash the blanket to put on her that was hanging up if she's sleeping in peed bedding?She said she put her to bed at 8:15,went to bed herself at 10:30,must have a good washer and dryer to do two blankets in an less than an hour and a half.

LeLe1953
02-21-2009, 07:10 PM
The Putnam County Sheriff's Office seems surprised about a lot of info that has already been widely reported. They are either lying through their teeth or totally incompetent.

The guy in black description bothers me, though. Too many children equate the black silhouetted figure in the overcoat and hat [that appeared on neighborhood watch signs] with "strangers".

I was surprised when I asked my pre-schooler one day if the UPS guy was a stranger or not and he said "no", he's not a stranger. Hopefully the stranger-danger education has improved since then.

Just thinking.

Off topic kinda, we are after all talking about children s safety. My children were taught: If you dont know their name, if you dont know where they live, they are a stranger....ie the UPS man or better yet Mail man they see daily. They see him/her daily but they are still a stranger.

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 07:12 PM
I,m sorry, I just don't find bio mom believable. Not saying she isnt telling the truth, I just don't think so. It seems most of the players have changed their story more than once. I am not believing nothing about nothing until I see it confirmed by LE.

I haven't believed Bio Mom gave two craps about Haleigh and JR since I saw she called them "Brats" on her myspace.

azwriter
02-21-2009, 07:13 PM
Ron does have sister named Crystal/Cristal, also. She's the one with the bad hair from yesterday's press conference. [Kept talking about a pedo-fire. Sorry, I bust out into giggles just remembering that.]


Regardless, you can see how confused and sad this extended family is about this disappearance.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 07:14 PM
I just know whenever a child has been taken the family's stories do not change,but in this case they keep changing and it really disturbed me RC lied yesterday to the media.He is looked at as they all are and to lie??He said there was no gun,there was no fight,then last night on NGrace,his Mom said yes there was a fight,there was a gun taken two weeks before.Now MC is saying she had the fight w/the cousin and he tried to steal the gun.But the media also said there was a gun found in a ditch,but I don't know when,or if that's true.

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 07:15 PM
If a child peed on her blanket,you'd wash the sheets too and why wash the blanket to put on her that was hanging up if she's sleeping in peed bedding?She said she put her to bed at 8:15,went to bed herself at 10:30,must have a good washer and dryer to do two blankets in an less than an hour and a half.

I can do a load of laundry in an hour. Especially if it is only two small blankets.

panthera
02-21-2009, 07:18 PM
No, I believe what Mist said is true why she had to take the blanket down from the window, hers was in some van and Haleigh's smelled like urine. Misty covered Haleigh with a sheet and washed the blanket. This is speculation on my part, once the blanket dryed she placed it oh Haleigh. Now if haleigh had another wetting episode the night she was abducted is speculation on someone else's part not mine, I have not heard about that.
OK ~ I'm with you! :)

txsvicki
02-21-2009, 07:18 PM
Hopefully the little brother saw alot more and can tell if Haleigh was awake or if Misti was awake or asleep. Dressing in black would be common if something is planned and the person doesn't want to take a chance being seen. I wonder if the missing blanket is also black.....

jandkmom
02-21-2009, 07:19 PM
OT...but I went through Satsuma/Putnam County yesterday...I looked for activity, but didn't see any. I did see the command center in Palatka with the media signs.

Aries72
02-21-2009, 07:20 PM
I can do a load of laundry in an hour. Especially if it is only two small blankets.

Me too. I doubt these blankets were thick, queen or king sized ones that would take forever to wash/dry.

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 07:21 PM
I just know whenever a child has been taken the family's stories do not change,but in this case they keep changing and it really disturbed me RC lied yesterday to the media.He is looked at as they all are and to lie??He said there was no gun,there was no fight,then last night on NGrace,his Mom said yes there was a fight,there was a gun taken two weeks before.Now MC is saying she had the fight w/the cousin and he tried to steal the gun.But the media also said there was a gun found in a ditch,but I don't know when,or if that's true.

Parents in the past (not mentioning names) have withheld info from the press.

Once the child was located it did fall into place.

Parents will and DO deny/withhold info from the media at LE request if it could bring their child home safely.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 07:21 PM
I can do a load of laundry in an hour. Especially if it is only two small blankets.

Yep,it could be small blankets,my daughter had the Winnie the Pooh classic big blanket,it took forever to dry.

panthera
02-21-2009, 07:26 PM
I just know whenever a child has been taken the family's stories do not change,but in this case they keep changing and it really disturbed me RC lied yesterday to the media.He is looked at as they all are and to lie??He said there was no gun,there was no fight,then last night on NGrace,his Mom said yes there was a fight,there was a gun taken two weeks before.Now MC is saying she had the fight w/the cousin and he tried to steal the gun.But the media also said there was a gun found in a ditch,but I don't know when,or if that's true.
Something does seem strange to me that the family doesn't even have the same story. And we don't know who the gun that was found in the ditch belongs to either, assuming of course, a gun was found. :confused: MOO

3dogmom
02-21-2009, 07:27 PM
fwiw- dont expect these blankets to be top of line.

txsvicki
02-21-2009, 07:35 PM
Questions I'd want to know about the man all in black:

Since Junior called him a man and not a monster, did he hear the man speak?
Did Junior try to wake up Misti or just where was Misti?
Did the man take Haleigh out the back door or take her from the bed?
Was Haleigh wrapped in something like a blanket?

I believe Crystal and Junior because it fits with someone coming to the back door and carrying something out and more than one person being involved. Probably the female propped the back door knowing that something would be carried out. LE better listen to the boy and not forget about Elizabeth Smart's sister and how she was ignored. Also, Jessie Davis' little two year old told that she was carried out in a rug.

babycat
02-21-2009, 07:35 PM
I've
Oh sorry Babycat,just a southern expression,it's not like anyone would really do it.I am however very disturbed of what's been happening for awhile and noone's done anything about it.She said the kids told her they were being hit,they were begging to not have to go back,what is wrong with her?She's had charges against him of being abused and she didn't question this and have it investigated before something like this would happen?I am going to watch GR tonight,even though I don't like watching him to see what is up w/the pic of Haleigh he's talking about.It has been upsetting me all day.


Hey, is there a thread about them saying they were hit or anything? I've heard about that, I haven't really gotten to read about it yet...I was wondering about that


Thanks

EmMomma
02-21-2009, 07:42 PM
Hey, is there a thread about them saying they were hit or anything? I haven't really gotten to read about that yet...I was wondering about that

When asked about how things were in the house, Gma (C's mom) told NG that things were fine, but that she knew the kids were "hit". Now, here's my issue with that statement: DEFINE "HIT". Kids can be overly dramatic. My 3 y/o DD who's gotten exactly one spanking (for snatching her hand out of mine and taking off across a parking lot) says to me, "Don't spank meeeeeeeeeee!!!" when she's doing something she knows she's not supposed to do...:bang:
For now, I'm taking that statement with a grain of salt.

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Woah! You guys went totally off topic here! I thought we were talking about the "Man in black"?!

pirate
02-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Well I'm sorry but, I WOULD have questioned my son. I would have gently and patiently talked to him about that night, and asked what he saw, heard, etc. ... I believe children observe and pick up more than we give them credit for.

I would STILL be talking to him about it ... a little here and a little there, in case I picked up important information, if it were my daughter missing, I'd do whatever it took!

And I don't believe it will scar him for life ... I was always worried when my sons were small, that everything would affect them always, and now they're grown, most time, they can't even remember the things I was worried about.

That's just my take on it .. if he DID see something, they need to find out what.

If LE told the parents not to discuss it with him, I don't blame them for following this directive.

And if it were my child and I was asked by the authorities and professionals not to discuss it with him, I would not.

jokell
02-21-2009, 07:47 PM
If Haleigh wet her bed and she changed clothes, but this would affect JR too unless Misty just let him sleep in a wet bed.

The interview I saw on Nancy Grace stated that Misty and Junior were in the same bed and Haliegh was asleep on a toddler bed on the floor.

babycat
02-21-2009, 07:51 PM
Woah! You guys went totally off topic here! I thought we were talking about the "Man in black"?!

It was just a brief aside. I had a question about something she referenced in her post. We briefly went off topic:) No harm no foul. I don't think we're the first to commit that forum sin;)

Sorry for any confusion :blowkiss:

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 07:51 PM
If LE told the parents not to discuss it with him, I don't blame them for following this directive.

And if it were my child and I was asked by the authorities and professionals not to discuss it with him, I would not.I have to disagree. If the professionals already interviewed him (which they should have done immediately), this child has suffered a trauma and needs to be allowed to discuss it with the people he trusts. It is a mistake to make a child of this age keep in his feelings and thoughts about his sister going missing when he can see and hear everyone else talking about it. He will have gotten the idea it isn't OK for him to discuss it...and later on when he has other traumas in his life...he won't readily discuss those either.

jokell
02-21-2009, 07:53 PM
The light on in the kitchen makes more sense to me now. If Misty wasn't home, and a "man in black" snuck into the home, he would have went from room to room looking to see who was there. After determining that there was NO adult in the house - why the heck would you NOT turn on the light? Misty's story makes absolutely NO sense, but her story about the pink shirt makes me think she is just being "stupid". If she told LE that Haleigh was wearing the pink shirt, and latter finds it in the dirty laundry (in the kitchen by the back door....right??) WHY would she then hand it over to the police and say "Oh, here it is! I have no idea how it got here!". If I had been her, and I had something to hide, and I found the shirt that I had told LE Haleigh was wearing, I would NEVER have turned it over to them! I would have said "No....that is a different shirt!"......assuming they would have even questioned me about it. Misty's discovery of the pink shirt after being let back in the home adds some credence to her story......IMHO......as stupid as that sounds. This case is full of twists and turns, and contains a mystery (Chad Reynolds) within a mystery (Haleigh). :waitasec:

You're right...she wouldn't. So that does give more validation to her story. I personally do not think she is involved or had anything to do with it.

A note about Chad Reynolds....on his thread a local pointed out that the uniform they wear at the steakhouse is all black. He left work and went to the bar in his uniform and hasn't been seen since. Now he went missing before Haleigh but if he's a man on the run that's the only clothes he had.

Shaymus at The Rock
02-21-2009, 07:55 PM
No one has said it is an "unknown" bad guy. In fact LE isn't saying much of anything about this case. I see no reason for Crystal to lie about this, if Misty IS involved (not sure it is the case) WHY would she cover for her?? Doesn't make any sense to me.

My 4 yr. old niece answered the phone the other day. her mom said to tell them she wasn't home. So she tells them "my mommy said that she isn't here." If Jr. was told to say this about the "man" then I'm sure he quickly told who it was that wanted him to say it.

Ofcourse it's an "unknown bad guy". Someone who abducts a child from her bed is definitely a "bad guy". And if the family doesn't know who he is, then he's unknown.

jokell
02-21-2009, 07:59 PM
I just know whenever a child has been taken the family's stories do not change,but in this case they keep changing and it really disturbed me RC lied yesterday to the media.He is looked at as they all are and to lie??He said there was no gun,there was no fight,then last night on NGrace,his Mom said yes there was a fight,there was a gun taken two weeks before.Now MC is saying she had the fight w/the cousin and he tried to steal the gun.But the media also said there was a gun found in a ditch,but I don't know when,or if that's true.

Maybe he's been instructed to not talk about it to the media. So instead of saying "no comment" which usually means yes, he's denying it. Just throwing that out there.

MADJGNLAW
02-21-2009, 08:00 PM
If LE told the parents not to discuss it with him, I don't blame them for following this directive.

And if it were my child and I was asked by the authorities and professionals not to discuss it with him, I would not.

I agree. I think there is a reason behind it.

It may sound strange to some that the mother states she did not question Junior and is not going to question the him about what he said he saw. One reason would be that LE wants to be able to use what the child has said as evidence some how if needed in the future. Some might say that someone in the family told the child to say he saw "Men in black" take his sister. This way, if the parents don't question him, talk to him about it, he will not get confused and his statement just may be used in the investigation even though he is so young.

I also agree with what some have said. He could be thinking LE - FBI, being so young and seeing them all over the place took his sissy. Maybe he is thinking they (LE -FBI) are the "Men in black" and that is why his sissy is missing.
I hope he is getting some type of counseling as well, this will traumatize this child for life and when he is older he may even blame himself for his sissy being taken.

my_tee_mouse
02-21-2009, 08:01 PM
He should have been questioned by a professional, long before he went home with his mother.

I would have so many other questions. Was Haleigh asleep? Where was Misty? Did Misty say anything? Was it dark out? Did you hear anything?

I am over 50 and I couldn't have resisted asking him questions, if I was his mom.

He has to be thinking that they will come get him, too.


According to the video:

"...Ronald, Jr. was questioned immediately by a team of people who deal with children..."

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 08:06 PM
Glad to hear that one, My~ Chalk one up for LE.

jokell
02-21-2009, 08:07 PM
Just wanted to add that I feel like a child of his age would be able to accurately distinguish between an officer and a "man in black". I'm sure he's seen enough police officers in his short life to know the difference. And as it was mentioned before, Elizabeth Smart's sister didn't give a description until MUCH later. He may not have said anything initially because of all the commotion in the house. I'm sure he was frightened and may have felt like he would be in trouble if he saw who took her.

I know there's a lot of talk on here about Misty not being home that night. I personally believe her. I believe she was home. Not only do I believe her but there has been NO proof that she wasn't home. There was a tip that was obviously investigated and must not have panned out or her arse would be sitting in jail right now charged with child endangerment! I think we need to focus on the intruder. I feel that is how it happened. Whether it was someone that the family knew or not, well no one knows.

Junior's description is a start.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 08:08 PM
Squires said the ordeal is wearing on the family, including Haleigh’s 4-year-old brother Ronnie Jr., who was also in the house when family members say Haleigh disappeared.
“He’s not doing well at all. He realizes what’s going on,” Squires said. “Today he went
to his granny’s house and she gave him a soda. He was pouring it in a glass. She asked him why and he said he was pouring half of it for his sister.”

This is beyond so sad.

Reannan
02-21-2009, 08:09 PM
If I had been Ron the night Haleigh went missing, one of the first things I would have done, is go and ask RJ what was going on. NO WAY did RJ sleep thru the commotion of LE and everyone in the home searching for Haleigh after the 911 call. I have wondered if what RJ said led to Ron's comments about "shooting him thru the window of the police car". Suppose for a moment that someone DID break into the home - and Misty is no where to be found - why wouldn't the "man in black" turn on the kitchen light? Especially if he wanted Haleigh to change clothes - or God forbid - leave the house with nothing on!!! Misty's discovery of the pink shirt and her turning it over to LE has a ring of bizarre truth to it IMHO. Why would you lie about what someone was wearing, and then hand it over to LE? Why not just keep lying??? I think a stranger DID take Haleigh.....and that gives me some hope that she is still out there. Remember: Elizabeth Smart, Shaun Hornbeck..... praying HARD!!!

jokell
02-21-2009, 08:12 PM
I don't think Junior was coached into saying "Man in black". I agree with a previous poster that kids that age will rat you out in an instant if you told them to say something.

jokell
02-21-2009, 08:13 PM
Squires said the ordeal is wearing on the family, including Haleigh’s 4-year-old brother Ronnie Jr., who was also in the house when family members say Haleigh disappeared.
“He’s not doing well at all. He realizes what’s going on,” Squires said. “Today he went
to his granny’s house and she gave him a soda. He was pouring it in a glass. She asked him why and he said he was pouring half of it for his sister.”

This is beyond so sad.

Oh my, that is just too sad. Bless his heart! I'm sure he misses his big sister beyond words!

Reannan
02-21-2009, 08:15 PM
Regarding what RJ said:


“Today he went to his granny’s house and she gave him a soda. He was pouring it in a glass. She asked him why and he said he was pouring half of it for his sister.”

This is beyond so sad.

Oh, Winterrose! That broke my heart! I am in Auugsta, Georgia, and if there is anyone who thinks it would be worthwhile to have a team of people on the ground down there.....I will call in sick at work!!! I am SO totally committed to this case being solved (and hopefully to recovering Haleigh!!!) that I cannot think of anything else right now!! :bang:

winterrose
02-21-2009, 08:18 PM
Just wanted to add that I feel like a child of his age would be able to accurately distinguish between an officer and a "man in black". I'm sure he's seen enough police officers in his short life to know the difference. And as it was mentioned before, Elizabeth Smart's sister didn't give a description until MUCH later. He may not have said anything initially because of all the commotion in the house. I'm sure he was frightened and may have felt like he would be in trouble if he saw who took her.

I know there's a lot of talk on here about Misty not being home that night. I personally believe her. I believe she was home. Not only do I believe her but there has been NO proof that she wasn't home. There was a tip that was obviously investigated and must not have panned out or her arse would be sitting in jail right now charged with child endangerment! I think we need to focus on the intruder. I feel that is how it happened. Whether it was someone that the family knew or not, well no one knows.

Junior's description is a start.

I wonder why LE has brought her in for three polygraphs.This last one was five hours long,but maybe they're just trying to get all the info,any detail that might be useful.I think if she could stick to her stories better,there wouldn't be so many questions and everytime she does an interview and it's different than what she's told LE,they wouldn't have to keep bringing her in.I want to believe her,but I just don't understand,why not tell the truth to begin with?Maybe she's afraid people are looking at her,maybe she's telling it more truthful now.If the kids weren't asleep at 8:15,big deal,so they watched some movies,better just saying that than trying to cover for yourself at a child's bedtime.

zadari
02-21-2009, 08:20 PM
He should have been questioned by a professional, long before he went home with his mother.

I would have so many other questions. Was Haleigh asleep? Where was Misty? Did Misty say anything? Was it dark out? Did you hear anything?

I am over 50 and I couldn't have resisted asking him questions, if I was his mom.

He has to be thinking that they will come get him, too. the thing that puzzles me is why wasnt the little boy taken as well ?
why would she be taken and not him? unless it was a sicko that just likes little girls (im glad the boy is at least safe i just hope he isnt traumatized now if he saw the abduction)

jokell
02-21-2009, 08:23 PM
You can pretty much get an idea of a layout of a trailer from standing outside. Especially if you've lived in one before. So when the perp went to the backdoor it was probably because he knew he wouldn't walk right into the bedroom area of the house. So once inside he turns on the light. That does NOT surprise me, nor do I find it odd. Think about it....you're breaking into a house that you're not familiar with, you're trying to be quiet. Which would risk waking someone up more, turning on a light to see, or bumping into furniture and toys in the dark? I'd turn on a light. He was most likely armed somehow so worst case scenario he wakes up an adult and has to kill them to get what he wants....the child. Not out of character considering we're most likely looking at a pedophile and someone that breaks into homes.

Either way this person has balls to do what they did. They don't think about their actions and have no compassion or empathy, Nor do they care about the consequences of their actions. They want what they want and they'll get it no matter what.

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:25 PM
It would be hard for me too unless LE reaally asked me not too, that it would not be beneficial for all involved. I would just have to do what I was told in that regard as they are supposed to be the experts.

Bolded by me .... I don't always trust them 100% - and they do make mistakes, and I'm just TOO stubborn not to do what I think will find my baby.

winterrose
02-21-2009, 08:27 PM
Regarding what RJ said:

Oh, Winterrose! That broke my heart! I am in Auugsta, Georgia, and if there is anyone who thinks it would be worthwhile to have a team of people on the ground down there.....I will call in sick at work!!! I am SO totally committed to this case being solved (and hopefully to recovering Haleigh!!!) that I cannot think of anything else right now!! :bang:

Their lives have changed forever,no matter what the outcome.But this little boy needs his sister.I hope some drug dealer did take her just to get his money back and his gf is watching her and will figure out a way to sneak her out and drop her off somewhere,that would be a better scenario.

jokell
02-21-2009, 08:28 PM
the thing that puzzles me is why wasnt the little boy taken as well ?
why would she be taken and not him? unless it was a sicko that just likes little girls (im glad the boy is at least safe i just hope he isnt traumatized now if he saw the abduction)

His interest was most likely in little girls only. This HAS to be a repeat offender. They just don't start off breaking into homes and abducting. Usually it starts off with relatives etc. and then escalades. So this person surely has a past.

It's a good thing that Junior was left behind b/c maybe what he saw could help find who took Haleigh.

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:32 PM
Yeah,but with kids you have to change them after thier baths or just dirty from the day,but especially her school clothes changed.

Uhmmmmmmmm not everyone does this every night. There are kids that fall to sleep in their day clothes, without baths, many times, in many families.

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:33 PM
I,m sorry, I just don't find bio mom believable. Not saying she isnt telling the truth, I just don't think so. It seems most of the players have changed their story more than once. I am not believing nothing about nothing until I see it confirmed by LE.


I'm starting to go this way too LeLe ... I'm just not feeling good about anybody right now, and really don't trust what anybody is saying.

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:35 PM
If a child peed on her blanket,you'd wash the sheets too and why wash the blanket to put on her that was hanging up if she's sleeping in peed bedding?She said she put her to bed at 8:15,went to bed herself at 10:30,must have a good washer and dryer to do two blankets in an less than an hour and a half.


I live in an apt. complex, and can do a set of sheets with 2 'thin' blankets, in 1 1/2 hours. If she discovered her wet at 8:30, she could have everything dry by 10:00.

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:37 PM
I haven't believed Bio Mom gave two craps about Haleigh and JR since I saw she called them "Brats" on her myspace.

What I'm seeing is Bio Mom very calm ... she's just not very upset about this.

Now I know everybody grieves differently, but gosh ... her little girl might still be out there alive, being hurt, scared, crying ... how can she stay so calm?

For that matter, they're ALL too calm to me.

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:41 PM
Hopefully the little brother saw alot more and can tell if Haleigh was awake or if Misti was awake or asleep. Dressing in black would be common if something is planned and the person doesn't want to take a chance being seen. I wonder if the missing blanket is also black.....


Yup, I'd be asking him if Misty was awake ... talking ... in bed or not.

There's no big mystery here .. he's my SON, I can talk to him and get answers, without waiting for somebody to give me permission.

Gosh, sometimes I think there's just too many 'rules' we have to go by, and things get missed or redirected to the wrong people ... etc. I'd just go by instinct.

Reannan
02-21-2009, 08:46 PM
His interest was most likely in little girls only. This HAS to be a repeat offender. They just don't start off breaking into homes and abducting. Usually it starts off with relatives etc. and then escalades. So this person surely has a past.

It's a good thing that Junior was left behind b/c maybe what he saw could help find who took Haleigh.

And.....back to Chad Reynolds - the missing Sexual Offender with the EXACT same MO!!! WHY, oh WHY isn't LE on this??? Geeesh! If Chad didn't have anything to do with it...then HE is a missing person that also needs to be investigated!!!! Reason number one million and seven thousand that I did not go into LE.....too frustrating!!! With that said - I have seen LE that I TOTALLY admire - the Tori Vinneau and Dean Springstube case comes to mind. The detectives on the Tori/Dean case were spot on with providing information, but protecting the case....and that DID NOT MEAN "NO COMMENT" with every question! I still have a voice mail on my cell phone from a WONDERFUL detective who I contacted when the Tori/Dean case grew cold. He called me and assured me that they were working on it!!! GOD BLESS Law Enforcement who cares enough to get the job done without their ego's getting in the way!!! God Bless the victims of these cases! God Bless those of us who loose sleep over them, and are willing to do ANYTHING to get the answers and to see justice served!!! It may not end the way we want it to.....but it should end with justice - aka - "Baby Grace" (Riley Ann Sawyers) - one of the most beautiful souls that ever graced this planet, and who I still pray for and think about. :praying:

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:47 PM
fwiw- dont expect these blankets to be top of line.

True ... and with wear and time, they can very thinned out.

Here's the type of thermal blanket I have and it dries very fast:

http://tinyurl.com/ca4lsh

-------

aprilshowers
02-21-2009, 08:50 PM
If LE told the parents not to discuss it with him, I don't blame them for following this directive.

And if it were my child and I was asked by the authorities and professionals not to discuss it with him, I would not.


I would ... but then, I'm an ornery stubborn old lady. :razz:

blubuni99
02-21-2009, 08:51 PM
In regards to the 'dressed in black' - maybe he didn't purposely wear black, perhaps he was just wearing a black shirt or something. I mean, he has to wear SOMETHING - a naked or shirtless man running around the neighborhood would surely bring unwanted attention. So perhaps he was just wearing a black shirt and JR can't articulate himself well enough to just say it's a black shirt.

Reannan
02-21-2009, 08:52 PM
I would ... but then, I'm an ornery stubborn old lady. :razz:

Me too Aprilshowers!! In fact, if I had been Ron, I would have grabbed RJ by the shoulders and asked what he knew LONG before LE showed up after the 911 call!

Kat
02-21-2009, 09:32 PM
Me too Aprilshowers!! In fact, if I had been Ron, I would have grabbed RJ by the shoulders and asked what he knew LONG before LE showed up after the 911 call!


And you know what reannan? I think Ron is that type of guy. If RJ had been up and awake I can see Ron scooping him up and asking him what happened lil' buddy? Tell me what you saw. Tell Daddy.

txsvicki
02-21-2009, 09:55 PM
If someone came to the trailer intending to break in dressed in all black he'd also have a flash light in order to not be seen or cause alarm. Gunfire or screaming might alert neighbors, so why take that chance. The kitchen light shouldn't have been on IMO.

LFlorida
02-21-2009, 10:00 PM
According to the video:

"...Ronald, Jr. was questioned immediately by a team of people who deal with children..."

Well, that could describe a lot of people, including every cop who ever had a kid.

And I assure you, the PCSO does not have a big staff of experts on call for this within the county. IF they were experts, they would have come from out of the county, though I know of one victim services person who does work for the county and I believe does work with children. I did a fundraiser for PCSO to donate 144 teddy bears to give to kids, so I know a little bit about their contact with children.

[Ironically, Dean Kelly helped me with the fundraiser, and Jeff picked them up from my house. Dean was elected Sheriff not long after. Jeff beat him in last November's election.]

tiredofthis
02-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Uhmmmmmmmm not everyone does this every night. There are kids that fall to sleep in their day clothes, without baths, many times, in many families.

So true. It happens more often than most people think.

Reannan
02-21-2009, 10:05 PM
If someone came to the trailer intending to break in dressed in all black he'd also have a flash light in order to not be seen or cause alarm. Gunfire or screaming might alert neighbors, so why take that chance. The kitchen light shouldn't have been on IMO.

I totally agree Txvicki! But imagine, if you were the "man in black", and you broke in....snuck into every room.....and realized THERE was NO adult in the house!!! You could turn the light on with no problems!!! LE needs to fess up where they got that rumor about Misty being absent that night. The public might help substantiate or deny that claim! At this point in time, I don't think LE knows a lot more than the rest of us about the "facts", but they certainly have a lot more "rumors"....and that is where we excell at rulling in or rullling out!

panthera
02-21-2009, 10:06 PM
If someone came to the trailer intending to break in dressed in all black he'd also have a flash light in order to not be seen or cause alarm. Gunfire or screaming might alert neighbors, so why take that chance. The kitchen light shouldn't have been on IMO.
I can't see the perp turning the light on either unless he had a weapon and was ready to use it on anyone who caught him in the act, or Misty wasn't home. MOO

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 10:07 PM
You can pretty much get an idea of a layout of a trailer from standing outside. Especially if you've lived in one before. So when the perp went to the backdoor it was probably because he knew he wouldn't walk right into the bedroom area of the house. So once inside he turns on the light. That does NOT surprise me, nor do I find it odd. Think about it....you're breaking into a house that you're not familiar with, you're trying to be quiet. Which would risk waking someone up more, turning on a light to see, or bumping into furniture and toys in the dark? I'd turn on a light. He was most likely armed somehow so worst case scenario he wakes up an adult and has to kill them to get what he wants....the child. Not out of character considering we're most likely looking at a pedophile and someone that breaks into homes.

Either way this person has balls to do what they did. They don't think about their actions and have no compassion or empathy, Nor do they care about the consequences of their actions. They want what they want and they'll get it no matter what.

Yes, but that doesn't fall within the "profile" of a pedophile, rarely does a pedophile Kill to get to a child, the manipulate to get to a child.
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

seekjustice
02-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Me too Aprilshowers!! In fact, if I had been Ron, I would have grabbed RJ by the shoulders and asked what he knew LONG before LE showed up after the 911 call!

That's what gets me about these people. Why no questioning. Why do they seem to assume nobody knows anything and everyone is telling the truth???

concernedperson
02-21-2009, 10:11 PM
I don't believe junior saw a man or men in black that took Haleigh.He was most likely sleeping when this happened or coached if he saw anything. Seems too staged to me.

seekjustice
02-21-2009, 10:12 PM
I can't see the perp turning the light on either unless he had a weapon and was ready to use it on anyone who caught him in the act, or Misty wasn't home. MOO

ITA, either this person was prepared to defend himself if need be or he knew exactly who or who was NOT in the house at that time.

ETA: of course that is "if" there was a perp in the house

blubuni99
02-21-2009, 10:15 PM
I don't believe junior saw a man or men in black that took Haleigh.He was most likely sleeping when this happened or coached if he saw anything. Seems too staged to me.

That was my first thought when I watched the clip - that perhaps RC or someone coached him. Or even talked about seeing a 'man in black' to plant it in his head.

Truthwillsetufree
02-21-2009, 10:17 PM
I totally agree Txvicki! But imagine, if you were the "man in black", and you broke in....snuck into every room.....and realized THERE was NO adult in the house!!! You could turn the light on with no problems!!! LE needs to fess up where they got that rumor about Misty being absent that night. The public might help substantiate or deny that claim! At this point in time, I don't think LE knows a lot more than the rest of us about the "facts", but they certainly have a lot more "rumors"....and that is where we excell at rulling in or rullling out!

Yes, I agree with you and I do not think LE there realizes it is easier for 500 WS to disect the stories as it is for their 9 deputies along with assisting with polygraphing and all their other duties. I believe with all my heart that Egos are in the way here and it is going to be at Haleigh's expense. I think if LE was more forthcoming on information KB with WFTV would be all over that place but she isn't. There is problems in that department. JMO.

SeriouslySearching
02-21-2009, 10:28 PM
I can't see the perp turning the light on either unless he had a weapon and was ready to use it on anyone who caught him in the act, or Misty wasn't home. MOOIt has happened in numerous cases where the perp turned on lights and obtained weapons after he had broken into a home where people were known to have been asleep inside.

txsvicki
02-21-2009, 10:54 PM
Poor little Junior must not sleep well at night. Misty has said that she saw him getting up and going through the bedroom door just as she was drifting off to sleep, but doesn't mention calling out to him to ask why he was up or what he thought he was doing. Then, Junior tells that a man all in black comes to take away his sister. Either Junior was already awake or it woke him and not Misti. Why didn't he wake up Misti or say anything to her when he supposedly got up just after she came in to bed or wake her when the man in black took his sister. Maybe this happened in the same time sequence. Very suspicious since Misti does place Junior being awake at least once.

oceanblueeyes
02-21-2009, 10:58 PM
:banghead:

Did they have a professional talk to RCJR in the beginning??? Man in black!!!! I trust LE is handling this the right way, I think they don't want to compromise their position and they are on the right track. I only pray!

They should have talked to him right away. They talked to 2 year old Blake when his mother, Jessie Davis, was murdered.

They talked to Christa Worthington's 2 year old little daughter, Ava, who was there when her mother was murdered.

imoo

Beyond Belief
02-21-2009, 11:11 PM
Geez, the things you stumble across when sleuthing. I started thinking who in world wears all black. Of course Goth came to mind so I started hunting around Putnam Co. Sure enough their there per this article talking about a favorite place in the area to eat. Angels Diner.
"waitress as she devoted her attention to a large group of local countrified-goth teens that" jan 4, 20008
http://chefmoz.org/United_States/FL/Palatka/Angel's_Diner1027351440. (http://chefmoz.org/United_States/FL/Palatka/Angel's_Diner1027351440.html)html (http://chefmoz.org/United_States/FL/Palatka/Angel's_Diner1027351440.html)

Then it led me to the myspaces for that area that are goth related. Then to one guy says he wiccan. His photo is like a cop or security guard uniform. Then he leads me to passionmatches.com. The guy and his g/f are advertising for what sounds like partner swaping. Geez, does Satsuma have these kind of people too.

CapsDeej
02-21-2009, 11:55 PM
Just getting started on this thread - so my apologies if this has been said - but if LE (or some other professional) did not question this boy at the beginning, they have lost out. By now 100s of people have probably spoken to the boy and/or the boy has heard the grown-ups and others around him theorize on what happened. Anything he says now would be suspect.

dearmont
02-22-2009, 12:14 AM
Hmmmm..if little JR was awake and saw Haleigh being abducted, why would be abductor risk leaving a witness? If it were payback on Dad, why just take one child?

anastacia129
02-22-2009, 01:29 AM
It wouldn't be that hard to convince a child that age they saw something they didn't. Pretty simple, and I don't think something like this would have just came out nearly 2 weeks after the fact.

txsvicki
02-22-2009, 04:02 AM
I wonder how the man in black story might have affected the things Crystal was saying on the Geraldo show.

smart blonde
02-22-2009, 04:50 AM
Or is he talking about LE. Being 4 and seeing police all over the place is he thinking LE took his sissy. He has been seeing them everywhere, maybe he is thinking they(LE) are why she's gone. Not that they are there to help.
Just trying to think like my kiddo's. Their little minds are so complex.
Very good point... if he was asleep when she was removed from the house, as has been stated previously, he wouldn't have seen anything/ anyone at all.
The 'strangers' in the house he may have seen, may very well have been the officers and detectives who arrived at the scene after the 911 call. They would all appear to be dressed alike, or in this case, dressed in black!

zadari
02-22-2009, 09:23 AM
His interest was most likely in little girls only. This HAS to be a repeat offender. They just don't start off breaking into homes and abducting. Usually it starts off with relatives etc. and then escalades. So this person surely has a past.

It's a good thing that Junior was left behind b/c maybe what he saw could help find who took Haleigh.
that is kind of why i dont understand why he was left .. whoever took her surely shouldve known he would tell so its gotta be someone they know but wouldnt think would do anything like that .. unless the boy was sleeping BUT if he was sleeping then how did he see anyone take her ? where did this story come from
' i sure am glad he is ok though i just wish they would find little haleigh

jokell
02-22-2009, 10:40 AM
Yes, but that doesn't fall within the "profile" of a pedophile, rarely does a pedophile Kill to get to a child, the manipulate to get to a child.
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Yes rarely, but it does happen. I imagine any predator that risks breaking into a home at night comes armed in some way. Knife, etc. Not with the "intent" to kill but just in case they're about to get caught. Back to Chad Reynolds, when he committed his crime of breaking into the trailer he came armed and used it on the victims clothing. What would have happened if he got caught in the act? "Oh sorry, I'll just be leaving now."

SailorMoon
02-22-2009, 10:50 AM
Surely they gently questioned him...surely LE did. GEEZE. You wanna have faith in LE, but if they didn't...............good luck to us all.

Tracey276
02-22-2009, 11:22 AM
Oh my,you're right,it was almost four am,he wakes up and LE is everywhere,maybe he thinks they are the ones who took her,very interesting.How sad for this little child,he'll always remember that time.

I'm very hopeful, that if they find Haleigh and this has a happy ending, the little boy won't remember that at all. I don't remember anything when I was four. But then again I seriously couldn't tell you about last month though. LOL!

I just mean, that I know I don't remember things from when i was four. I do know there are friends of mine and probably lots of others, that do. I'm just hoping the little boy will be like myself, and NOT remember this.

MADJGNLAW
02-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Hmmmm..if little JR was awake and saw Haleigh being abducted, why would be abductor risk leaving a witness? If it were payback on Dad, why just take one child?

I am thinking that if Junior did see a man in black and didn't say anything it was because he knew who the person was. I think if it were a stranger he would of screamed. Or he could of been so frighten he just shut down...so many different reasons...I just pray he is getting help regardless, he will feel it was his fault his sissy is gone as he gets older even if the men in black were LE.

Theonly1
02-22-2009, 11:53 AM
My thought is this...
If a man went to all the trouble of wearing all black in order to camoflauge himself in the night to watch this house to abduct a child out of said house in the middle of the night. Obviously he is watching the house, 1. sees the lights go out and knows everyone is in bed and waits until he thinks they are sleeping and he waits some more just to be sure.

Now he decideds to go..grabs a cinder block being very careful not to make any noise, ropes it to the screen, again not to make any noise, he has watched the place, doesn't want to wake the adult. Picks the backdoor lock because according to Misty it was locked, has to do this quietly. Intruder dressed in black, flips on kitchen light ( we know the light had to be turned on because in Misty's interview she said she noticed the kitchen light on and that is what led her to the kitchen and she noticed the back door open) makes his way silently (previous occupant said this could not happen due to creaky floors) to room where Misty, Haleigh and JR were asleep. Depending on which story of Misty's....
Intruder then walks into dark bedroom makes out Haleigh, reaches in a bed either with JR or Misty in it and picks up Haleigh. Obviously never waking Haleigh enough that she could alert Misty something was wrong. Could JR have been awakened? Yes and he was scared.
This Intruder then has to make his way carrying Haleigh back out of the creaky floored house carrying a 5 year old child without waking Haleigh up, hand over her mouth? Misty or any neighbors.
The kitchen light on means, why wear black? You flip a kitchen light on, that means neighbors could see in watching you, the Intruder abducting a child in the middle of the night, witnesses in the house if they wake up can identify you. Plus how did he know where the kichen light switch was?
JMO.

And to follow through with this unlikely (MOO) scenario, intruder pauses after snatching Haleigh, notices she is wet, and then on the way out the backdoor he removes her pink Hannah Montana shirt, finds the dirty laundry and places it in there...

(snort!)

not_my_kids
02-22-2009, 01:48 PM
Okay, carzy idea.
I think it is at least theoretically possible that if a stranger did take Haleigh they might have changed her clothes there at the house. There is only one road into and out of the trailer park. If there is an abductor and he was wearing all black, that's more than likely to avoid being seen. He may have changed Haleigh into all black or drugged her and wrapped her in something black to get her out of the park more easily, he may even have put her in a boy's clothes and a hat on her head to make her less identifiable by looking at her.

However, that is assuming that there was an abductor, which I'm still not sure there was.

dimples37398
02-22-2009, 02:16 PM
I just can't imagine someone coming to kidnap a child and stopping to change her clothes or even worry about taking the ones she had on off. I would think that they would be wanting to get out of that house as soon as possible.

On the other hand I could see someone just grabbing her up in the sheet or blanket she was laying with.

I don't know what to think about this anymore. It is definitely strange.

dunlurken
02-22-2009, 02:47 PM
A three year old really doesn't know what is going on. JR. supposedly slept through the whole thing until LE came. So the "men in black" theory doesn't hold any credence for me.

kiki the parrot
02-22-2009, 02:52 PM
What I'm seeing is Bio Mom very calm ... she's just not very upset about this.

Now I know everybody grieves differently, but gosh ... her little girl might still be out there alive, being hurt, scared, crying ... how can she stay so calm?

For that matter, they're ALL too calm to me.

Sometimes repression--anger turned inward, at least until now--can read more as depression. Even in the beginning, after hearing of near drowning incident but before revealing abusiveness and and other past issues w dad, I couldn't help thinking that she would have been understandably very angry underneath that their child goes missing while in the care of dad and his minor gf (who wouldn't?) yet making an effort to focus on their missing daughter. But once Jr. made statement re who he did see (ie man in black) it would've been near impossible for me to not then ask him who else (gf) he did--or didn't--see when his sissy was taken. JMO

:parrot:

kiki the parrot
02-22-2009, 02:58 PM
A three year old really doesn't know what is going on. JR. supposedly slept through the whole thing until LE came. So the "men in black" theory doesn't hold any credence for me.

The only thing that can be known is whether Jr. was asleep after LE arrived. Prior to that is anybody's guess--including, probably, gf's. JMO

:parrot:

Linda7NJ
02-22-2009, 03:32 PM
Thank you,they're brown here,so didn't know if green or brown there.If he was being taken out of trailer and seeing officers in dark searching he could be perceiving this as them taking her.He's just a baby.


He's young and that's an age where verbal ability differs greatly.

But at that age...my son would have been able to tell you everything he saw....I would think this one could too.

They'llDanceInHeaven
02-22-2009, 03:39 PM
hmmmm..if little jr was awake and saw haleigh being abducted, why would be abductor risk leaving a witness? If it were payback on dad, why just take one child?

i am thinking a childs natural response would be scared and pretend your sleeping...

They'llDanceInHeaven
02-22-2009, 03:43 PM
I wonder if bio mom saying ron was fake crying because i have not seen much emotion from crystal at all! She is so calm...just a thought

black poodle
02-22-2009, 04:33 PM
Very dark green, probably.

I live in Missouri and when our deputies are out looking for weed patches or on any other "official" business they do wear black, but the patrol deputies wear a baby poop brown.

natsound
02-22-2009, 06:17 PM
So,it sounds like if "men" came to get her in black,it was planned.I hope Daddy doesn't owe money or tick the wrong people off.This means RJ was up and someone unlocked that back door.Men would not need to go in together,only one to get her.And they would not need to place a brick in screen door.If they wore black they would most likely have gloves,so wouldn't be picking up anything for DNA purposes.

But you know what... if Ron owed $ to someone, there's a good chance Haleigh is still ALIVE. I don't think this is the scenario though. He would know it by now, and he would be acting differently.

txsvicki
02-22-2009, 10:07 PM
A three year old really doesn't know what is going on. JR. supposedly slept through the whole thing until LE came. So the "men in black" theory doesn't hold any credence for me.


But, Misty has already placed Junior as being awake at leat once. She says he was up and walking out the bedroom door as she drifted off to sleep. She doesn't mention him asking her for a drink or her asking him what he was doing.

Beyond Belief
02-22-2009, 10:21 PM
See, Misty says drifting off to sleep she sees the boy walking out of the room. Hours can pass and you drift in out of sleep, so who really knows when the boy left the room.
I think something woke them up.

LCoastMom
02-22-2009, 10:32 PM
it's very strange to me that the mother states she did not question the boy and is not going to question the boy about what he said. I'm not a father but I would think one of the instincts of a parent in a situation like this would be to find as many answers as possible from the child.

IMO LE probably told her not to try and question him, leave it to the professionals. If they know what they are doing they gave her a list of things to say to him to help him know he is safe and it's not his fault. Little kids often take on responsibility when bad things happen to a sib, things they in no way could have prevented or helped. But in their little mind they think they should have stopped the bad guy.

He doesn't need to be pumped for answers he doesn't have or forced to remember things he isn't ready to deal with. If he saw anything, LE is the ones to deal with it. If he slept through it or not and if his sissy doesn't come home. He's going to need lot's of therapy in the years to come.

LCoastMom
02-22-2009, 10:37 PM
They should have talked to him right away. They talked to 2 year old Blake when his mother, Jessie Davis, was murdered.

They talked to Christa Worthington's 2 year old little daughter, Ava, who was there when her mother was murdered.

imoo

It appears they did, look on the initial report from PD.

Beyond Belief
02-22-2009, 10:42 PM
I'd like to know what the first things he was saying when he awoke after the police arrived. If he awoke during that. The first words out of his mouth abt sissy will prob be the only truth we are going to get here.

Beyond Belief
02-22-2009, 10:45 PM
"the men in black"

Okay who in the world wears all back? Black jeans just aren't that common. Black sweatshirt/hoodie, yes. So what kind of professions do we have tht the guys wear all black.

shadow of my mind
02-22-2009, 10:54 PM
I started a list some pages back,

Man in black

An African-American to a small child dressed in dark colored clothing.
Someone dressed is motorcycle riding gear leathers.
A person dressed in a business suit like on the cover of the movie Men in Black if Jr. knows about that movie and has seen the cover. [He would have to be familiar enough with it make the association]
Someone wearing ‘goth’ style clothing.
A person who wears a very dark shade uniform as in LE or even someone who wears a uniform as a waiter or waitress, auto mechanic, delivery driver or custodial service clothing in dark colors.
Anyone wearing a dark shirt, sweatshirt, jacket and pants be it a dark shade of brown, green, blue or black.
Anyone wearing a hood or mask may appear to be a man in black.
A person standing in the dark or shadow may appear to be a man in black.

FYI
I has been confirmed by Chad's step-mother that he was last seen in his uniform from the Longhorn's that he worked at. Black pants, shirt, shoes but he did have a white shirt on over the black one. LE is saying he is not a suspect though.

Beyond Belief
02-22-2009, 10:57 PM
Well done.
Delivery people. I wonder if Misty was in the habit of ordering things like pizza.

shadow of my mind
02-22-2009, 11:25 PM
Well done.
Delivery people. I wonder if Misty was in the habit of ordering things like pizza.



Well I guess we could look on line and see what would be in the area for pizza or other take out food.

We have two possible ways a looking at why someone would be dressed that way. On purpose to enter a home and rob or snatch a child or that is what they wear for other reason and this home and child became an opportunity by happenstance.

EDIT: ADD
There is also floral delivery and for an added bonus they usally drive a van.

txsvicki
02-23-2009, 01:25 AM
If it happened, I don't think it will be a person who dressed in black for their job, but in order to not be seen out walking around in the area. To me, "all in black" might even mean a black hoodie, cap, sweater cap covering the face with eyeholes, or even gloves. The man could even have been a female unless he spoke and Junior heard a man's voice. It makes sense that someone would have dressed in black because the dogs showed that Haleigh's scent went out back, down the trail to the dock, the little building, then around the streets and back over to the railroad track. If the dog scent route is correct then who ever took Haleigh was walking part of the time.

Who dresses "all" in black:
Spiderman
Ninjas
Cat burglars
People who don't want to be seen at night

shadow of my mind
02-23-2009, 02:06 AM
We don't know when Jr. saw this 'man in black' correct?

Could someone have already been in the home maybe hiding in a closet?
If Jr. got up to go to the bathroom during the night could he have seen someone standing outside the home through the window? There was a full moon that night and he may have seen someone walking up to the house or standing in the yard.
And taking the whole moon thing
Could the man in black be a shadow cast across the room and to Jr., a little person, it looked like a person in the house.

Hypothetically
I am just trying to think if I was standing in someone’s home, dressed in all black to try to blend into the night as well as I could and some little tyke gets up to go to the bathroom and happens to spot me what would he or I do. My first thought was to put my finger up to my lips and make that sshh sound if he looked like he was going to holler tell him I was there to surprise his daddy and go back to sleep.
Would a 4 year buy that and just go back to bed without thinking a thing about it? Maybe, it would all be according to how he had been raised. I'm trying to think back to when my son was that little. I could see him not being upset at all. He would have most likely just asked 'what's your name' and just gone and did what the person told him.

winterrose
02-23-2009, 02:13 AM
But, Misty has already placed Junior as being awake at leat once. She says he was up and walking out the bedroom door as she drifted off to sleep. She doesn't mention him asking her for a drink or her asking him what he was doing.

I feel if she is staging an abduction,since this was not a story she was saying till over a week later,is she accounting for the kids being up when she laid down?Perhaps to say one of them could have opened the door for a stranger and Haleigh was taken?I think she's been feeling different stories out to see which ones will work best.

winterrose
02-23-2009, 02:15 AM
Or could he have seen someone in black that brought Misty back home when she was doing the ectasy with her friend?Could have had a black hoodie,like the rappers like to wear and dark jeans.They wear those hoods up,you can hardly even see thier face.

samsmom02
02-23-2009, 02:30 AM
IMO LE probably told her not to try and question him, leave it to the professionals. If they know what they are doing they gave her a list of things to say to him to help him know he is safe and it's not his fault. Little kids often take on responsibility when bad things happen to a sib, things they in no way could have prevented or helped. But in their little mind they think they should have stopped the bad guy.

He doesn't need to be pumped for answers he doesn't have or forced to remember things he isn't ready to deal with. If he saw anything, LE is the ones to deal with it. If he slept through it or not and if his sissy doesn't come home. He's going to need lot's of therapy in the years to come.

I sure hope they do not interrogate Jr like they did Riley Fox's brother!

SeriouslySearching
02-23-2009, 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by dunlurken
A three year old really doesn't know what is going on. JR. supposedly slept through the whole thing until LE came. So the "men in black" theory doesn't hold any credence for me. I disagree strongly. Rj was a week away from being 4 years old.

At this age, there are many factual stories of children this age saving lives by calling the police/ambulance/fire department and performing heroic feats. They do know what is going on and they are like little sponges taking in information. They are quite able to recall and to communicate information.

SeriouslySearching
02-23-2009, 03:30 AM
Or could he have seen someone in black that brought Misty back home when she was doing the ectasy with her friend?Could have had a black hoodie,like the rappers like to wear and dark jeans.They wear those hoods up,you can hardly even see thier face.We have no confirmation Misty was doing ecstasy or that she had a friend with her.

LCoastMom
02-23-2009, 02:24 PM
See, Misty says drifting off to sleep she sees the boy walking out of the room. Hours can pass and you drift in out of sleep, so who really knows when the boy left the room.
I think something woke them up.

This is another Misty story that bothers me. Who would not shake off sleep to find out where their 4 y.o. was going late at night when everyone is in bed?

Makes no sense, again.

concentric
02-23-2009, 02:30 PM
Gonna post this here:

Remember the Jacob Wetterling case where Jacob and his friends were accosted by someone while riding their bikes home from the convenience store, this near a country road? This man was reported by the boys as being dressed from head to toe in dark clothing with a mask on his face. He took Jacob and left the other boys. Jacob has never been seen again.

dunlurken
02-23-2009, 02:41 PM
IMO, LE was the "men in black". Dark Blue, whatever.

As an aside. My grand daughter called us last night crying so bad. "Franklin" wasn't able to come to her birthday party. She 3 and a half. Hubby and I said.... "who the heck is Franklin?"

Talked to daughter and Franklin is a frog on a TV show. Men in Black? Me thinks JR has seen that movie one too many times.

KR2tonenow
02-23-2009, 03:54 PM
Now Jr is stating this....2 weeks later. Jeez, where are those fingerprints from the mobile home??

DNA tests should be in by now!

Seahorseladydi
02-23-2009, 03:56 PM
Has this statement from the little brother been confirmed by LE?

if not then....... I smell hink.....

Daphne69
02-23-2009, 04:08 PM
IMO, LE was the "men in black". Dark Blue, whatever.

As an aside. My grand daughter called us last night crying so bad. "Franklin" wasn't able to come to her birthday party. She 3 and a half. Hubby and I said.... "who the heck is Franklin?"

Talked to daughter and Franklin is a frog on a TV show. Men in Black? Me thinks JR has seen that movie one too many times.

Bolded by me
Franklin is a turtle. :D

I see your point, though. My 3 yo frequently tells the truth, but she conflates time. Something that really happened last week, she will say happened at breakfast today. The elements are all there, but they may not be accurate as a timeline or even what's real. My daughter can tell you that characters on TV aren't real, but then she'll tell you a story about something that happened as if they are real.

elle1919
02-23-2009, 04:24 PM
IMO, LE was the "men in black". Dark Blue, whatever.

As an aside. My grand daughter called us last night crying so bad. "Franklin" wasn't able to come to her birthday party. She 3 and a half. Hubby and I said.... "who the heck is Franklin?"

Talked to daughter and Franklin is a frog on a TV show. Men in Black? Me thinks JR has seen that movie one too many times.

LOL...Franklin is a turtle, poor baby, I hope she had a happy birthday nonetheless.

KR2tonenow
02-23-2009, 04:36 PM
I saw some guys in khaki's going on a Jeep heading out into the woods, almost looked like SWAT on the video.

tiredofthis
02-23-2009, 04:49 PM
But, Misty has already placed Junior as being awake at leat once. She says he was up and walking out the bedroom door as she drifted off to sleep. She doesn't mention him asking her for a drink or her asking him what he was doing.

I'm surprised she didn't speak to him or get up to see what he was doing. Maybe it has to do with her being so young.