View Full Version : Is Casey the real Zenaida?
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marla
03-04-2009, 06:38 PM
When I was in Orlando in November, there was a small green truck in Lee's driveway.
Yes, I saw all the landmarks. :crazy:
Oh you little sleuther, you! :seeya:
I wonder who's truck you saw in the driveway?
CBTampa
03-04-2009, 06:50 PM
Do Florida's registrations coincide with a persons birth month like they do here in Ohio? If they do, which I know not all states do, then could this link to someone who has a birth date in November?
Yes, they do.
lisalei321
03-04-2009, 06:56 PM
Do Florida's registrations coincide with a persons birth month like they do here in Ohio? If they do, which I know not all states do, then could this link to someone who has a birth date in November?
Registration ends on the birthday of whoever's name is on the title, the interesting thing would be to know how many times the tag has been changed between vehicles....
I have an antique tag that gets switched on a regular basis, due to ongoing repairs to one or the other of the two antiques we own.
Meemom
03-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Yep. I called the Orange County Court Clerk today about the case. Here's what I've learned:
(Snipped)
Title was issued for the 97 Ford in August 2007 and the registration was up to date in May 2008. The registration was due to expire November 2008. The DMV records do NOT show it has been renewed, but some times there is a lag in information being updated.
What the heck is going on here???
Is there any way to tell if the tag was not renewed because it (the tag) was reported stolen or lost? Logic would dictate that the owner of the 97 Ford would notice the tag missing and report it to DMV in order to get a new tag- doubt they would continue driving around with no tag.....not to mention the danger of the stolen tag being used by a stranger commiting a crime or getting into an accident. In Maryland we get a front and rear tag, and the rear tag has stickers showing the month and yr the tag expires. Some people will actually put a cardboard tag on the rear or in the rear window, with the tag info and a note that says "Tag Lost" or "Tag Stolen" if they don't want to pay for a new one or wait for a new one to come by mail. (Marylanders hate to physically GO to the DMV).
I also find it a little weird that the citing officer ran a DL check on the name ZG22, and verified a valid DL, but didn't run a routine check on the registration/tag to verify not stolen, etc., especially considering that the driver could not present an actual license. That would have immediately told the LEO that the tag didn't match the car, unless the 95 Chevy was registered to the same owner as the 97 Ford (?) Anyway to check if the owner of the 97 ford ALSO has a 95 Chevy?
Valhall, thank you SO much for the fantastic sleuthing!!!:blowkiss:
Cayleefan
03-04-2009, 10:57 PM
:yes::yes::yes::yes:Of course she's the real Zeneida.
MAMABEAR
03-04-2009, 11:34 PM
Do ya'll know the name/names of the officer?
Valhall
03-04-2009, 11:56 PM
Do ya'll know the name/names of the officer?
The citation says Officer Narvaez.
MAMABEAR
03-04-2009, 11:58 PM
The citation says Officer Narvaez.
Very Good. Thanks! At least he isn't a "player"---that we know of. lol
MAMABEAR
03-05-2009, 12:35 AM
The citation says Officer Narvaez.
You know------I have been sittin here "glued" to your post. Now I just have to ask-------can't hold it back anymore.
Val? What else have you figured out?
magic-cat
03-05-2009, 12:59 AM
snipped
If KC was pulled over on May 24 and misrepresented herself as ZG, wouldn't that officer remember that?
The fingerprints could easily be matched to KC if this is all true.
I'd think SA would be all over this. Why aren't they?
Perhaps they are and we just do not know about it...maybe they are "still investigating" it...
I just figure if there is an inkling, we would know it by now. I mean, know-it-all Leonard P. hasn't even mentioned it!! :eek:
Maybe he found out something about it that made him know it was NOT true, OR he will read it here and it will be a new theory by the weeks end.:crazy:
Emma Peel
03-05-2009, 01:23 AM
Fascinating thread. Awesome find & analysis, Valhall & all. :clap::clap::clap::woohoo::clap::clap:
Miss Casey's penchant for LE-connected boyfriends become more and more interesting as this theory progresses. (Not implying she was aided and abetted. Just finding the pattern curiouser and curiouser.)
Does anyone else recall LE saying months ago - rather offhand - that they've learned Casey has a long history breaking the law? I can't recall if it was to media, or an interview... At the time, I remember thinking they must be talking about Amy's and Grandpa's checkbooks, and thinking that that wasn't a very long history, actually. :waitasec:
But maybe ... that's not the only law-breaking they were talking about. Anyone else remember those LE comments - and maybe the source? I feel that perhaps LE has always had much more on Miss Casey/Zanny's periperal activities that we have not even seen yet. :cow:
(yeah, forgive me ratttled-brain, I've been here, too long :crazy:.)
shgrbkr
03-05-2009, 04:42 AM
This is so "surreal." I find this whole thing fascinating, but unconvinced as yet.
Since the tag was stolen, how much farther can one go to get actual PROOF? Can the actual car even be traced now?
Does the courthouse where one pays the fines have video cameras? What about the actual courtroom? If so, are those videos still available for review?
Bring on the doc dump!!
tx_Dot
03-05-2009, 05:04 AM
The citation says Officer Narvaez.
Keep up the Good Work !!!!
(which is alot more than I can say about Officer Narvaez)......
He pulls over a car w/tags that don't match up to the vehicle, & the driver as no license........but he does 'take the time' to write her a ticket......
Wonder what name was on the insurance ?? wonder if he even bothered to look ?? what ID did he accept from her ??
Y'all are on this like stink on a monkey! Go TEAM!
Valhall
03-05-2009, 07:22 AM
I found the disposition on the traffic case. This is from the 06/11/08 arraignment. Signature at the bottom.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewAttachment.jsp?docName=20080384111&id=DOC235S3662.A0&parent=DOC235S3662
P.S. Waived right to counsel. So we solved that one. Also, please note that this arraignment was at the Ocoee location of the Orange county court system...not the Orlando downtown one, so this ZG22 never had to go to the Orange County downtown location...the payments can be made online or on the phone (learned that one yesterday in the multiple phone calls it took to get through to a live person...lol)
shgrbkr
03-05-2009, 07:41 AM
I found the disposition on the traffic case. This is from the 06/11/08 arraignment. Signature at the bottom.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewAttachment.jsp?docName=20080384111&id=DOC235S3662.A0&parent=DOC235S3662
P.S. Waived right to counsel. So we solved that one. Also, please note that this arraignment was at the Ocoee location of the Orange county court system...not the Orlando downtown one, so this ZG22 never had to go to the Orange County downtown location...the payments can be made online or on the phone (learned that one yesterday in the multiple phone calls it took to get through to a live person...lol)
I guess that shoots the video possibility down. Does anybody think that Ofc. N could/would remember this particular traffic stop?
This is just weird.
Valhall
03-05-2009, 07:51 AM
Basically, what this looks like, now that we can view the disposition, is that ZG22 never produced a driver's license...period, either at the moment she got stopped or at the arraignment (note no driver's license number entered). It looks as though at the stop she gave her name and her dob (because it's entered in the electronic case record and ties back to the ZG22 driver's license in the DMV database).
My hubby and I were discussing the issue of the tag not belonging to the vehicle stopped yesterday. Okay, if this had been a guy (lol) the tag would have been run. But the stop was not for any "suspicious activity" (i.e. it was just a moving violation - failure to yield), and you've got a 22 year old girl...bet the officer didn't even run the tag. Serious...I bet he didn't even run it. That, or the owner on the registration of the vehicle was there and produced ID...which is highly possible. If "they" handed the officer the registration to the GREEN CHEVY, and the person listed on that registration was there and produced ID, I don't think he would have ran the tag.
Just speculation on how the mismatch could have occurred.
Valhall
03-05-2009, 08:54 AM
Guys,
Will you look at this pic for me and tell me if you think the white car parked at this house is a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire? This is the address tied to the 1997 Maroon Ford (I believe that's it parked to the left of the house) that the TAG belongs to on the ZG22 traffic stop. (The tag that appears to have been on a 1995 Green Chevy).
Could that be KC's car parked there?
KenoshaKid
03-05-2009, 09:49 AM
I don't see a bra on the front of the car.
sarah7855
03-05-2009, 10:04 AM
Guys,
Will you look at this pic for me and tell me if you think the white car parked at this house is a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire? This is the address tied to the 1997 Maroon Ford (I believe that's it parked to the left of the house) that the TAG belongs to on the ZG22 traffic stop. (The tag that appears to have been on a 1995 Green Chevy).
Could that be KC's car parked there?
The back lights are also not quite right. That looks more like an older Kia, Toyota, or maybe even a Daewoo. Can't quite place it. :)
Jenny60123
03-05-2009, 10:15 AM
Is there any way to tell if the tag was not renewed because it (the tag) was reported stolen or lost? Logic would dictate that the owner of the 97 Ford would notice the tag missing and report it to DMV in order to get a new tag- doubt they would continue driving around with no tag.....not to mention the danger of the stolen tag being used by a stranger commiting a crime or getting into an accident. In Maryland we get a front and rear tag, and the rear tag has stickers showing the month and yr the tag expires. Some people will actually put a cardboard tag on the rear or in the rear window, with the tag info and a note that says "Tag Lost" or "Tag Stolen" if they don't want to pay for a new one or wait for a new one to come by mail. (Marylanders hate to physically GO to the DMV).
I also find it a little weird that the citing officer ran a DL check on the name ZG22, and verified a valid DL, but didn't run a routine check on the registration/tag to verify not stolen, etc., especially considering that the driver could not present an actual license. That would have immediately told the LEO that the tag didn't match the car, unless the 95 Chevy was registered to the same owner as the 97 Ford (?) Anyway to check if the owner of the 97 ford ALSO has a 95 Chevy?
Valhall, thank you SO much for the fantastic sleuthing!!!:blowkiss:
My thought on why he ran the liscence and not the tag is that if it was Casey using ZG22's liscense he may have wondered about her having a hispanic name, and clearly not being of hispanic origin. Especially if the officer himself was of hispanic descent.
Clock's Tickin
03-05-2009, 11:19 AM
Was the tag on the green utility vehicle verified to be a Florida plate?
Jaboom97
03-05-2009, 12:21 PM
I can't see the picture-I don't have permission to see it.
Valhall
03-05-2009, 12:45 PM
Was the tag on the green utility vehicle verified to be a Florida plate?
Yeah, I asked that. She said it was a Florida tag.
elfie
03-05-2009, 12:56 PM
I found the disposition on the traffic case. This is from the 06/11/08 arraignment. Signature at the bottom.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewAttachment.jsp?docName=20080384111&id=DOC235S3662.A0&parent=DOC235S3662
P.S. Waived right to counsel. So we solved that one. Also, please note that this arraignment was at the Ocoee location of the Orange county court system...not the Orlando downtown one, so this ZG22 never had to go to the Orange County downtown location...the payments can be made online or on the phone (learned that one yesterday in the multiple phone calls it took to get through to a live person...lol)
It reminds me of the signature from the Sawgrass card that was filled out, but I haven't seen it in awhile. Do you know where that document is?
Valhall
03-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Pages 48 and 57
http://investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/files/casey_anthony_documents01.pdf
SL_Zero
03-05-2009, 12:58 PM
It reminds me of the signature from the Sawgrass card that was filled out, but I haven't seen it in awhile. Do you know where that document is?
i was thinking that the name Zg at the top looked like KC handwriting but I'm thinking not that this part was filled out by an employee.
elfie
03-05-2009, 01:24 PM
i was thinking that the name Zg at the top looked like KC handwriting but I'm thinking not that this part was filled out by an employee.
No, she didn't sign it, you're right. Definitely doesn't look like her signature from the docs.
gogrannypop
03-05-2009, 05:06 PM
Yep. I called the Orange County Court Clerk today about the case. Here's what I've learned:
Citation was given at 10:45 a.m. on 05/24/08
Location of citation intersection of Regal Point Blvd and Regal Downs Circle (right by the address on the driver's license that ZG22 doesn't live at!)
Vehicle description on citation "1995 Chevy Green Utility Vehicle"
Tag #J223GT
Okay...this is just getting more bizarre. I don't know if we will ultimately find out ZG22 has NO connection to the Anthony case or not...but there sure are a lot of unanswered questions.
Tag #J223GT - DOES NOT BELONG TO a 1995 CHEVY GREEN UTILITY VEHICLE
It belongs to a Maroon 1997 Ford 4 door vehicle. VIN 1FALP6536VK102001. I won't give owner information on the 1997 Ford because they don't appear to be attached to this case at all...but bizarrely WE NOW STILL DON'T KNOW WHOSE VEHICLE ZG22 was driving because it had a tag on it that belonged to another car! O_O
Title was issued for the 97 Ford in August 2007 and the registration was up to date in May 2008. The registration was due to expire November 2008. The DMV records do NOT show it has been renewed, but some times there is a lag in information being updated.
What the heck is going on here???
From the doc dump today, page 4
IR#85 Holycross Gregory Lee- 08/26/2008- ACISS# 1510 AIM# 96- DSHMV records for all FL tags ending in 336, all red/maroon vehicles with FL tags ending in 336
WTH indeed
Jaboom97
03-05-2009, 08:02 PM
I don't think this has to do with this theory of ZG=KC-as if you delve way further through all of the leads to page 4879-AIM lead request number 96 that FDLE went through:
this is in reference to a lead received of a Maroon or Red Chevy Blazer at a Walgreens or somesort that a person thought they saw Caylee on July 24 in Jacksonville with a white male 26-27 years old with a slim build, brown hair--the plate number was searched ending in 336 matching a red car and well there are 21 in Florida. None matched in Nassau county as was reported.
I think it was just one of those tips that FDLE followed up back in August contrary to the Anthony's statements that leads weren't being followed up on.
Jaboom97
03-05-2009, 08:13 PM
I don't think this has to do with this theory of ZG=KC-as if you delve way further through all of the leads to page 4879-AIM lead request number 96 that FDLE went through:
this is in reference to a lead received of a Maroon or Red Chevy Blazer at a Walgreens or somesort that a person thought they saw Caylee on July 24 in Jacksonville with a white male 26-27 years old with a slim build, brown hair--the plate number was searched ending in 336 matching a red car and well there are 21 in Florida. None matched in Nassau county as was reported.
I think it was just one of those tips that FDLE followed up back in August contrary to the Anthony's statements that leads weren't being followed up on.
RR0004
03-06-2009, 01:05 AM
I found the disposition on the traffic case. This is from the 06/11/08 arraignment. Signature at the bottom.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewAttachment.jsp?docName=20080384111&id=DOC235S3662.A0&parent=DOC235S3662
P.S. Waived right to counsel. So we solved that one. Also, please note that this arraignment was at the Ocoee location of the Orange county court system...not the Orlando downtown one, so this ZG22 never had to go to the Orange County downtown location...the payments can be made online or on the phone (learned that one yesterday in the multiple phone calls it took to get through to a live person...lol)
It doesn't look like her Casey's handwriting at all. But what's interesting is that the last name seems to have a "dropped" z...same way the rental agent wrote ZG's name at SG Apts.
RR0004
03-06-2009, 01:08 AM
It reminds me of the signature from the Sawgrass card that was filled out, but I haven't seen it in awhile. Do you know where that document is?
Can't believe you said what I just posted...except supposedly the rental agent was the person who wrote the card up...maybe not?
SL_Zero
03-06-2009, 03:53 PM
No, she didn't sign it, you're right. Definitely doesn't look like her signature from the docs.
no what i meant was at the top, where the name ZG was written, it looked like when KC wrote ZG in her statement way back.
but then i looked and the signature is SO different from the printing of the name, the signature being slanted and scrunchy, while the printed name is upright round and bolder... i've now been thinking that the employee at wherever this was paid filled out the top oprtion, thus blowing my whole theory of it matching KC handwriting.
it does sort of look like the ZG name on the apartment card though.
i dont have both, can someone do a side by side plz? TIA :blowkiss:
MAMABEAR
03-06-2009, 08:27 PM
no what i meant was at the top, where the name ZG was written, it looked like when KC wrote ZG in her statement way back.
but then i looked and the signature is SO different from the printing of the name, the signature being slanted and scrunchy, while the printed name is upright round and bolder... i've now been thinking that the employee at wherever this was paid filled out the top oprtion, thus blowing my whole theory of it matching KC handwriting.
it does sort of look like the ZG name on the apartment card though.
i dont have both, can someone do a side by side plz? TIA :blowkiss:
Wished I could help you------can't--but I would like to see them side by side also. Can you ask Hot Dog to do it for us?
Hot Dogs
03-06-2009, 08:45 PM
I'm not exactly sure what is being asked for here in relation to signatures. The ZG that is going after KC with a lawsuit really was at Sawgrass and really did sign that card. Her signature on the card matches the signature she made when OCSO sat her down for an interview. We compared those signatures in a different thread.
MarleneM
03-06-2009, 10:10 PM
Guys,
Will you look at this pic for me and tell me if you think the white car parked at this house is a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire? This is the address tied to the 1997 Maroon Ford (I believe that's it parked to the left of the house) that the TAG belongs to on the ZG22 traffic stop. (The tag that appears to have been on a 1995 Green Chevy).
Could that be KC's car parked there?
From today's "KW" thread, KW was reportedly driving a white Mitsubishi Galant when he was seen and questioned about trespassing in the Suburban Dr woods with a shovel in Oct.
Here are pics of some 2003 Mitsubishi Galants that seem similar to the one in your pic Valhall:
MAMABEAR
03-07-2009, 12:44 AM
I'm not exactly sure what is being asked for here in relation to signatures. The ZG that is going after KC with a lawsuit really was at Sawgrass and really did sign that card. Her signature on the card matches the signature she made when OCSO sat her down for an interview. We compared those signatures in a different thread.
I could be lost as usual but thought we were talkin bout the ticket ZG22 got and the sig. on that.
Hot Dogs
03-07-2009, 12:51 AM
Oh, ok. I've never seen the signature on the traffic citation.
MAMABEAR
03-07-2009, 01:51 AM
Oh, ok. I've never seen the signature on the traffic citation.
You are probably right----is late and i should read and not post. I get so confused. LOL
cecybeans
03-07-2009, 02:09 AM
From today's "KW" thread, KW was reportedly driving a white Mitsubishi Galant when he was seen and questioned about trespassing in the Suburban Dr woods with a shovel in Oct.
Here are pics of some 2003 Mitsubishi Galants that seem similar to the one in your pic Valhall:
Wow - this is sending my creep meter into the little red zone!
irishbosoxfan
03-07-2009, 02:30 AM
Zenaidas signature on LICENSE PAPERWORK
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig1.jpg
Zenaidas name written by Casey
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig3.jpg
Zenaidas signature on SWORN STATEMENT
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig2.jpg
If someone can point me to the traffic ticket I can pull that and add it to the list
SL_Zero
03-07-2009, 02:43 AM
pretty sure the traffic ticket is a few pages back on this thread. i have the pdf on my other computer, will link tomorrow when i get back to it..
irishbosoxfan
03-07-2009, 03:19 AM
pretty sure the traffic ticket is a few pages back on this thread. i have the pdf on my other computer, will link tomorrow when i get back to it..
Great Thanks! I went back thru again and didn't see it.
irishbosoxfan
03-07-2009, 03:26 AM
Citation Number: 6602RFD
Case Number: CTW -2008-0002378
Defendent Name: GONZALEZ, ZENAIDA
Other Amounts Due: $0.00
Payment Options
Select Option Fine Amount
Pay Court Fines $260.00
http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=3877681b-cfc1-4a9f-b861-8cd55376c0ed&CaseID=5898474
Citation Number: 6603RFD
The Citation Entered has been satisfied
No further action required.
Citation was not paid using Internet Pay.
We can not re-print your receipt here.
http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=3877681b-cfc1-4a9f-b861-8cd55376c0ed&CaseID=5898199
However I can't see a copy of the actual ticket
Zenaidas signature on LICENSE PAPERWORK
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig1.jpg
Zenaidas name written by Casey
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig3.jpg
Zenaidas signature on SWORN STATEMENT
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig2.jpg
If someone can point me to the traffic ticket I can pull that and add it to the list
It looks like an exact match to the top one, too me.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagle...nt=DOC235S3662
bookworm474
03-08-2009, 01:26 AM
I have about five different styles of writing depending on the pen and my mood. Easy to fake a signature when the mind is focused on that.
EchointheDark
03-08-2009, 06:06 PM
Zenaidas signature on LICENSE PAPERWORK
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig1.jpg
Zenaidas name written by Casey
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig3.jpg
Zenaidas signature on SWORN STATEMENT
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/irishbosoxfan/zenaidasig2.jpg
If someone can point me to the traffic ticket I can pull that and add it to the list
This may have been already covered, but it bothers me... can somebody add the signatures from the Sawgrass Apartment lease where Stacy O signs the first year, and then the next year her siggy is ENTIRELY different- and very reminiscent of KC's handwriting- like if KC wrote "Stacy O..." on 4/27/07. I keep coming back to that. If KC was setting up another ID, why not a third one? This was covered in #147 of "Sawgrass Resident Shares insight"; I don't know how to bring that link over here. Thanks!
magic-cat
03-09-2009, 02:41 AM
I have about five different styles of writing depending on the pen and my mood. Easy to fake a signature when the mind is focused on that.
There are certain attributes to writing that do not change with your mood-a certain curve of a certain letter, a certain crossing of a certain letter, a certain tilt to a certain word...so although your handwriting may appear to be completely different on five different days, a handwriting expert would be able to distinguish it as having been yours. I would guess that if Casey did sign anything in all of this with someone elses name that they are already all over it because I am certain they have had the best handwriting experts crawling all over her little samples...:blushing:
Schmerty_Jones
03-09-2009, 02:52 AM
What a very sick bunch! Tell me it doesn't get any worse,please!!!
MD MOMMY
03-09-2009, 01:30 PM
i was thinking that the name Zg at the top looked like KC handwriting but I'm thinking not that this part was filled out by an employee.
LOL I thought the same thing. KC has that bubbly type handwriting.
MAMABEAR
03-10-2009, 04:47 PM
Call me "ms colombo". Thank you!!!
If she had developed an id for zg and the zg was the one into porn. If she was trying to start her life over after she got rid of ca, ga and maybe caylee---she would have had to keep the 2 peeps separate kc and zg-- now you have 2 peeps. Maybe zg went to her "job"----had to take baby--so drugged her---maybe even baby saw thangs (she was little). She hid her money. She had socked money away under zg name-for her new life.
Kc, having to wait til she did the dirty work (killing e1)---going along bidding her time--------trying to get it all come together.
She was gonna disappear and become zg.
B-u-t----she slipped a cog and killed caylee. Probably out of rage because caylee had told ca ***** and now ca was all over her and just might ruin her plans. Oooooh she was so mad when she left the house and that snotnosed brat screaming for CA how much more of this can i do til i can ride off into the sunset as zg. Hellooooooooo. She grabs the duct tape---no need to go there.
She still wanted to be zg and couldn't make up her mind how to change the plan to her advantage. In the meantime there was the problem of a dead baby in the trunk. She had to do something about that. No need to go on about this.
She had decided to try and off ca and ga--just for spite. Ok---one night she was all packed up and ready to move. She had her bag packed real nice and neat (re: La) and she was either:
1. Go off ca--ga ---take off kc (like changing clothes) and puts on zg and head for the sunset.
2. She was just gonna change clothes and then head for the sunset.
Ca knocks on the door. Ooops!!! Play along---play it by ear. Don't know how much damage is done yet. Right now one could say she was floatin in "limbo"----maybe she can get out of this mess--->ok, ok you can see the baby in the morning. "give me one more day".
She has been sittin on this bed---ca screaming---la in her face---cops called---la says, "think about this, what are you going to say when the cops say, 'ms ant. Where is your child?" caught in the head lights
whew---> zg. Zfg took our sweet baby. What other way could she go?
"rolaids moment"
what you think?
KR2tonenow
03-10-2009, 05:48 PM
Completely brilliant theory and one I was speculating but not voicing early on.
Sybil at her best!!!
The defense wont have to much trouble with the real ZG, cause as you all have beautifully put it, ZG clearly is the one and the same Casey Anthony!!
Retrial ~note to Baez you better come up with more than you got!!
cocoamom
03-15-2009, 04:05 PM
I was looking at the ping maps for June 11. I believe this is the day she went to Mall of Millenia with Tony and Caylee to hand out fliers. They also went to Cheesecake Factory. If this ticket was paid or she was in court or whatever on the 11th, when that day?
Ohhh I see it...9:43AM pinged that tower at Goldenrod and 50, then no pings at all until 1:32PM at Tony's...nice little hole there in her pings! Plenty of time to head West on 50/Colonial to the Ocoee branch and do her business...but since they had Caylee with them at the Mall, she must have taken Caylee with her to the Ocoee clerk's office/court/whatever it is she did on the 11th...
Ripley007
03-16-2009, 05:09 AM
I was looking at the ping maps for June 11. I believe this is the day she went to Mall of Millenia with Tony and Caylee to hand out fliers. They also went to Cheesecake Factory. If this ticket was paid or she was in court or whatever on the 11th, when that day?
Ohhh I see it...9:43AM pinged that tower at Goldenrod and 50, then no pings at all until 1:32PM at Tony's...nice little hole there in her pings! Plenty of time to head West on 50/Colonial to the Ocoee branch and do her business...but since they had Caylee with them at the Mall, she must have taken Caylee with her to the Ocoee clerk's office/court/whatever it is she did on the 11th...
Honestly, I for one, am completely in the dark with this ZG/KC traffic voilation stuff. Another poster sent me stuff through PM. Since I printed it all out, I never felt an urgency to read it all. Still...just knowing the jist of it all, doubtful, and this is coming from a chick who wants to NAIL KC to the wall...
kashell
03-16-2009, 08:44 PM
Ok, don't know if this has been covered yet, and if I'm repeating something that's already been discussed, please delete. I was rewatching George's interview with the FBI at: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6a_1227338439
At the 37 minute mark, he tells the agent that he suspected that Casey hadn't had a job since 2006. Then, he says he found an updated resume that she had created. It reflected her job at Universal from 2004-2006. From 2006 to present she listed as her job description Nanny..
cocoamom
03-16-2009, 08:52 PM
Honestly, I for one, am completely in the dark with this ZG/KC traffic voilation stuff. Another poster sent me stuff through PM. Since I printed it all out, I never felt an urgency to read it all. Still...just knowing the jist of it all, doubtful, and this is coming from a chick who wants to NAIL KC to the wall...
Yeah, I think it would take too many brains (that she is short on) to turn off the phone to go to court or pay this ticket on June 11. She either didn't or was planning every single minute for days before she did the horrible deed...
MarleneM
03-16-2009, 09:09 PM
Ok, don't know if this has been covered yet, and if I'm repeating something that's already been discussed, please delete. I was rewatching George's interview with the FBI at: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6a_1227338439
At the 37 minute mark, he tells the agent that he suspected that Casey hadn't had a job since 2006. Then, he says he found an updated resume that she had created. It reflected her job at Universal from 2004-2006. From 2006 to present she listed as her job description Nanny..
GA says he asked KC why she would list "nanny" as a profession on her resume when she wasn't a nanny, and KC supposedly replied that it was something she was "thinking" of doing. GA then asks KC, " Well, why would you put it down on a resume? That makes no sense to me. That makes no sense. If you're gonna be taking this occupation doing that, you don't put it down there unless you're actually doing it!
sleutherontheside
03-16-2009, 09:15 PM
GA says he asked KC why she would list "nanny" as a profession on her resume when she wasn't a nanny, and KC supposedly replied that it was something she was "thinking" of doing. GA then asks KC, " Well, why would you put it down on a resume? That makes no sense to me. That makes no sense. If you're gonna be taking this occupation doing that, you don't put it down there unless you're actually doing it!
KC never considered herself to be an actual mother. I think that once she pulled her vanishing act she would have used the name KCA as a reference and obtained employment as a nanny. Just look at all the photos she would have showing how loving her relationship was with her little charge. She'd probably be able to obtain housing with a family and a per diem to facilitate her surfing the net trolling for the next guy to attach herself to in her usual parasitic fashion.
cloud
03-19-2009, 08:13 PM
No...I'm saying this. The PERSON who got the driver's license with the name "Zenaida Gonzalez" dob 01/11/86, address 422 Regal Downs Circle got that driver's license by producing whatever documents were required (however fake those documents were), while not living at that address, and subsequently has not lived anywhere else as best can be determined. Let's be clear on this...I THINK it was KC. But it doesn't matter whether it was or not. The importance of the situation is that A PERSON got a fake id with an address they did not live at with the name "Zenaida Gonzalez", which happens to be very important to this case. They have subsequently fell off the face of the earth concurrent with the same time that KC has been unable to interface with the outside world.
Facts:
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 did not live at 422 Regal Downs Circle in 2001.
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 does not appear to have lived anywhere else
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 has never had her SSN verified in the Florida DMV database
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 has made it to the age of 23 without making any list of any kind (utility bill, classmates, addresses, etc.)
Someone stating they were "Zenaida Gonzalez" - dob 01/11/86 - got stopped on 05/24/08 and couldn't produce a valid driver's license....they got fingerprinted.
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 has not reappeared relative to the citation since some time after 8/15/08 <=== last payment date on traffic citation
This is the most compelling and logical argument I've seen so far regarding this subject.
MO
cloud
03-19-2009, 08:19 PM
Ok, don't know if this has been covered yet, and if I'm repeating something that's already been discussed, please delete. I was rewatching George's interview with the FBI at: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6a_1227338439
At the 37 minute mark, he tells the agent that he suspected that Casey hadn't had a job since 2006. Then, he says he found an updated resume that she had created. It reflected her job at Universal from 2004-2006. From 2006 to present she listed as her job description Nanny..
Not zanny... just nanny. Very interesting.
MO
cloud
03-19-2009, 08:30 PM
If she was, or was contemplating to be a nanny, the best way to show it would have been how she looked after her own child. Employing another nanny wouldn't impress anyone.
MO
Hi...
Ok.. here's a question. If KC listed her most recent profession as "Nanny"... Wouldn't she want to make it more professional by saying ... um... maybe something like "Professional In-home Childcare Provider" or something like that?
The word "nanny" being in her vocabulary has always been utterly ridiculous to me. At her level... it's "Babysitter"... (hello?).
Hehe, but I wouldn't trust her to water my shrubs.
christee
03-19-2009, 10:16 PM
I believe that this is Daniel AKA "Jing-a-Ling" from the Lak Vaj group -
Just out of curiosity, I was revisiting some old posts and docs.
Is the Daniel in the pic from post #386 the same Daniel in these links?
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypages4280to4333/1/lg/4280-4333_Page_27.htm
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypages4280to4333/1/lg/4280-4333_Page_28.htm
Meemom
03-20-2009, 01:51 AM
Does anyone know if LE acknowledged getting this fake ZG / traffic ticket/ driver's license info? (I know some WSers said they were sending it to LE) If so, have they followed up on it? I'm mostly afraid that the defense is going to pull this whole incident out of their butts at trial and say "See, this is the ZFG that KC has been telling LE about all along, and they didn't even follow up on it even as someone obtaining a license without valid info, let alone as the kidnapper of Caylee.....They didn't even try to track her down, they chose to ignore it because they prejudged KC to be guilty", etc, etc.
magic-cat
03-20-2009, 02:17 AM
Ok, don't know if this has been covered yet, and if I'm repeating something that's already been discussed, please delete. I was rewatching George's interview with the FBI at: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6a_1227338439
At the 37 minute mark, he tells the agent that he suspected that Casey hadn't had a job since 2006. Then, he says he found an updated resume that she had created. It reflected her job at Universal from 2004-2006. From 2006 to present she listed as her job description Nanny..
I would guess that soon after Caylee was born that Casey deemed herself "nothing more than a nanny", perhaps due to her jealousy over her mother's relationship with her daughter. Or perhaps, she distanced herself from Caylee by idealizing herself as the nanny and nothing more, making it much easier to pack Caylee away in a nice neat compartment inside of her demented little mind and go on about her business. Or perhaps she KNEW that her mothering (babysitting would probably be more like her ACTUAL relationship with Caylee) was THE only skill that she possessed and she was "prettying up" the title from mom to nanny to make it seem more valid. Personally, I do not believe she had any intentions of obtaining employment. I believe she was looking for a guy that was heading UP and that was goo-goo for HER, regardless how she really felt about him, to attach herself to and go along on the upward spiral with him. She thought she was all that-to me that is apparent-she believed she was the top of the food chain as far as women go and she was looking to score a top notch man, due to her own self perceived value, misplaced as it was. She never meant to be a "nanny". She was just playing with the resume funtion in Office on the computer and "nanny" was her only "skill".:rolleyes:
Clock's Tickin
03-20-2009, 09:16 AM
Hi...
Ok.. here's a question. If KC listed her most recent profession as "Nanny"... Wouldn't she want to make it more professional by saying ... um... maybe something like "Professional In-home Childcare Provider" or something like that?
The word "nanny" being in her vocabulary has always been utterly ridiculous to me. At her level... it's "Babysitter"... (hello?).
Hehe, but I wouldn't trust her to water my shrubs.
It may be an age thing--my sister calls her daytime babysitter a "Nanny"--I've never had a nanny-my babysitter was a babysitter no matter when she watched my kids. But my sister also had a "Baby nurse" that was not a nurse at all, but simply a babysitter that helped out while my sister was still home...go figure...but I think it is just the new lingo for the younger set. Too much TV? IDK?
I agree that KC was a working as a nanny. That is why she believes herself when she repeats that Caylee was "taken" by the "nanny" and that the "nanny" is the last person she saw Caylee with. She just leaves out the part where the "nanny" that took Caylee is the same "nanny" that she references on her resume.
kashell
03-20-2009, 01:08 PM
I would guess that soon after Caylee was born that Casey deemed herself "nothing more than a nanny", perhaps due to her jealousy over her mother's relationship with her daughter. Or perhaps, she distanced herself from Caylee by idealizing herself as the nanny and nothing more, making it much easier to pack Caylee away in a nice neat compartment inside of her demented little mind and go on about her business. Or perhaps she KNEW that her mothering (babysitting would probably be more like her ACTUAL relationship with Caylee) was THE only skill that she possessed and she was "prettying up" the title from mom to nanny to make it seem more valid. Personally, I do not believe she had any intentions of obtaining employment. I believe she was looking for a guy that was heading UP and that was goo-goo for HER, regardless how she really felt about him, to attach herself to and go along on the upward spiral with him. She thought she was all that-to me that is apparent-she believed she was the top of the food chain as far as women go and she was looking to score a top notch man, due to her own self perceived value, misplaced as it was. She never meant to be a "nanny". She was just playing with the resume funtion in Office on the computer and "nanny" was her only "skill".:rolleyes:
ITA, but the ridiculous thing was that this resume was discovered by George during the time that GA and CA were operating under the false and denial filled belief that KC was still working at Universal! According to this interview, KC had some major back-pedaling to do when he confronted her. Why put "nanny" if you're employed somewhere as an event coordinator? I do think that she melded identities early on, and wouldn't be totally surprised if there were an entirely different "parallel universe" group of people that she introduced herself to as Caylee's nanny!
kashell
03-20-2009, 01:14 PM
It may be an age thing--my sister calls her daytime babysitter a "Nanny"--I've never had a nanny-my babysitter was a babysitter no matter when she watched my kids. But my sister also had a "Baby nurse" that was not a nurse at all, but simply a babysitter that helped out while my sister was still home...go figure...but I think it is just the new lingo for the younger set. Too much TV? IDK?
I agree that KC was a working as a nanny. That is why she believes herself when she repeats that Caylee was "taken" by the "nanny" and that the "nanny" is the last person she saw Caylee with. She just leaves out the part where the "nanny" that took Caylee is the same "nanny" that she references on her resume.
Yeah, there is a privileged feel to the term "nanny". All those rich and pampered young adults/teens on the popular shows ( Hills, O.C., etc.) would def. use nanny as opposed to "day care" or babysitter. I could see KC fallling into that mode. Delusions of grandeur.
BondJamesBond
03-20-2009, 02:33 PM
Does anyone know if LE acknowledged getting this fake ZG / traffic ticket/ driver's license info? (I know some WSers said they were sending it to LE) If so, have they followed up on it? I'm mostly afraid that the defense is going to pull this whole incident out of their butts at trial and say "See, this is the ZFG that KC has been telling LE about all along, and they didn't even follow up on it even as someone obtaining a license without valid info, let alone as the kidnapper of Caylee.....They didn't even try to track her down, they chose to ignore it because they prejudged KC to be guilty", etc, etc.
IMHO, Meemom, LE is not obligated to acknowledge this info. It would come out one of two ways:
1) Leaked by LE and/or SA's office to the media, or,
2) Released to the defense by SA's office as compelled by a motion by the defense and to the public via the Sunshine Laws
w.r.t. 1 above, recall the new sheriff recently warned about sealing up leaking info...just as an example of this avenue.
Further, if I understand correctly, w.r.t. 2 above, the SA can withold something from being released to the public that is vital to the on-going investigation. Also, w.r.t. 2 above, the defense is likely not compelled to request release of the information regarding Casey ever allegedly impersonating a ZFG...'twouldn't be prudent...as it would paint their client in the poorest of light :wink:
IIRC - and anyone can look-up on the Orange County Clerks website in the traffic section by name "Z G" cases showing d.o.b. as 1/11/86 - that payments were made on the failure to produce valid DL charge on the date that Casey was bailed out, and the amount of payment was on the order of some miscellaneous charges that were paid @ the time bail was made. These misc. charges were reported by the media and were mysterious. You can read more about this in the "Zanni..." thread.
FWIW, Someone that actually knows what they're talking about could better answer the question if you wanna post it on the "Procedure and Legal Questions" thread.
THAT was the long answer.
HERE's the short answer.
LE knew about this waaaaaaay before we did. :thumb: The evidence of this is the line of questioning in the interview w/ Jamie that the detective zeroed in on Casey telling the Jamie that she couldn't/wouldn't meet up w/ her because she had to go downtown to deal with a ticket. Jamie gave answers about it being something like a month ago...which at the time of the interview put it later than the actual event on 7/15...but when put in context of the events they were discussing that day would've put it around 7/15. The detective went back to this a couple of times because he knew what he was after. :thumb:
We independently noted in Casey's cell log the text convo between Casey & Jamie 7/15 ~11:30AM that would've corresponded with the account Jamie gave to LE just a short time before Casey made the trip to BoA downtown.
Let not your heart be troubled. Hope that helps.
Ripley007
03-20-2009, 11:49 PM
Yeah, there is a privileged feel to the term "nanny". All those rich and pampered young adults/teens on the popular shows ( Hills, O.C., etc.) would def. use nanny as opposed to "day care" or babysitter. I could see KC fallling into that mode. Delusions of grandeur.
ITA-And a "Nanny" may speak with a British or Foreign accent, which makes them all the more cool don't forget...;)
sumbunny
04-03-2009, 01:07 PM
**bumping**
Did anyone ever figure out about the ZG that was arrested for the "invalid license"?
This still irks me. I still wonder if KC had a fake license with the ZG name on it.
Seebra
04-10-2009, 10:10 AM
Something struck me yesterday with regards to this thread when I was watching GA's depo in the civil case:
Q Everything you know today do you believe there
ever was a Zanny the baby-sitter?
A I have a belief in my daughter, yes.
Q My question isn't if you have a belief in your
daughter. Do you believe there really was someone named
Zanny who was babysitting during that year?
A Absolutely.
Q Have you ever discussed with your wife whether
or not she believes it?
A My wife and I believe there was a Zanny there.
Absolutely pure speculation here, but what if it is the defense's argument that KC is really a split personality and ZFG did kill Caylee?
Would this be a viable defense, and can a split personality be proven in a court of law?
The reason I bring this up again is because when GA states the part bolded by me, there is a slight, sad smile on his face - as though he is one-upping the lawyer and knows something that the lawyer does not.
Seebra
04-10-2009, 10:12 AM
**bumping**
Did anyone ever figure out about the ZG that was arrested for the "invalid license"?
This still irks me. I still wonder if KC had a fake license with the ZG name on it.
And if she did, would the state know about this - could they not pull it? And if they do know that KC has a fake ID as ZFG, would they have to release that to the defense as well? Or can they keep it secret until trial?
Brini
04-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Something struck me yesterday with regards to this thread when I was watching GA's depo in the civil case:
Q Everything you know today do you believe there
ever was a Zanny the baby-sitter?
A I have a belief in my daughter, yes.
Q My question isn't if you have a belief in your
daughter. Do you believe there really was someone named
Zanny who was babysitting during that year?
A Absolutely.
Q Have you ever discussed with your wife whether
or not she believes it?
A My wife and I believe there was a Zanny there.
Absolutely pure speculation here, but what if it is the defense's argument that KC is really a split personality and ZFG did kill Caylee?
Would this be a viable defense, and can a split personality be proven in a court of law?
The reason I bring this up again is because when GA states the part bolded by me, there is a slight, sad smile on his face - as though he is one-upping the lawyer and knows something that the lawyer does not.
Where would JB get a medical history of DID for KC? She doesn't have one. She has never had a dissociative fugue, in her life (losing time). She always knows where she is. She has never awakened to find that she has taken a plane to NY, and doesn't know how she got there.
KC has no medical background that would enable her to convince anyone, least of all a jury, that she has "alters." It would have turned up early in childhood, and would have been impossible to miss.
It won't sell. And, KC knows there is no Zanny. KC made Zanny up at the Sawgrass,
EchointheDark
04-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Yeah, there is a privileged feel to the term "nanny". All those rich and pampered young adults/teens on the popular shows ( Hills, O.C., etc.) would def. use nanny as opposed to "day care" or babysitter. I could see KC fallling into that mode. Delusions of grandeur.
This irks me so much! A real "nanny" lives in YOUR house and gets paid for taking care of your kids. She doesn't move around from pillar to post, shack with this and that relative, change cell phone numbers weekly (cuz not paying the bill--why ELSE would you change your cell # after notifying all your "friends" of the new number?). A nanny isn't somebody who's 5'10" tall, has perfect teeth, is a 10... and babysits your kid for free??? plus buys your kids all sorts of stuff- duplicates of what you already have at your mama's home, but needs a freakin' air mattress for when the baby sleeps over late at her house. A nanny maybe takes the kid to the beach to keep her amused, but doesn't practically live at Disneyworld to keep the kid amused. Anybody 5'10", a 10, perfect teeth, plenty of money, etc., is gonna have a REAL life - far more than the imaginary life even kkkkkkkkrrrrazzzzy KC did...
How pretentious KC appears to be for how little she actually is!!!!!!
cecybeans
04-10-2009, 12:22 PM
This irks me so much! A real "nanny" lives in YOUR house and gets paid for taking care of your kids. She doesn't move around from pillar to post, shack with this and that relative, change cell phone numbers weekly (cuz not paying the bill--why ELSE would you change your cell # after notifying all your "friends" of the new number?). A nanny isn't somebody who's 5'10" tall, has perfect teeth, is a 10... and babysits your kid for free??? plus buys your kids all sorts of stuff- duplicates of what you already have at your mama's home, but needs a freakin' air mattress for when the baby sleeps over late at her house. A nanny maybe takes the kid to the beach to keep her amused, but doesn't practically live at Disneyworld to keep the kid amused. Anybody 5'10", a 10, perfect teeth, plenty of money, etc., is gonna have a REAL life - far more than the imaginary life even kkkkkkkkrrrrazzzzy KC did...
How pretentious KC appears to be for how little she actually is!!!!!!
Well all the above is possible if you drink enough KCoolaid. Can I get a witness!
frenchvixen
04-10-2009, 12:25 PM
This irks me so much! A real "nanny" lives in YOUR house and gets paid for taking care of your kids. She doesn't move around from pillar to post, shack with this and that relative, change cell phone numbers weekly (cuz not paying the bill--why ELSE would you change your cell # after notifying all your "friends" of the new number?). A nanny isn't somebody who's 5'10" tall, has perfect teeth, is a 10... and babysits your kid for free??? plus buys your kids all sorts of stuff- duplicates of what you already have at your mama's home, but needs a freakin' air mattress for when the baby sleeps over late at her house. A nanny maybe takes the kid to the beach to keep her amused, but doesn't practically live at Disneyworld to keep the kid amused. Anybody 5'10", a 10, perfect teeth, plenty of money, etc., is gonna have a REAL life - far more than the imaginary life even kkkkkkkkrrrrazzzzy KC did...
How pretentious KC appears to be for how little she actually is!!!!!!
The moment I heard the description of Nanny (she's a 10, has perfect teeth and is 5'10). I knew that KC was describing herself. Of course she has to lie about the description b/c if she said that Nanny had straight hair and was 5'5 then they would know she was referring to herself but KC weaves in the truth with lies. She thinks she's a 10 and if she wasn't so ugly on the inside I would say that she has a beautiful smile. She does have perfect teeth. The only thing that she changed was the height and of course the hair.
I gotta give it to her. She thought she could outsmart the cops. As a woman, she will go down in criminal history as a criminal legend. Who else has stood face to face with the cops and refused to back down during interrogation so cooly?
metalcrystal
04-10-2009, 12:38 PM
Well all the above is possible if you drink enough KCoolaid. Can I get a witness!
For sure, I will be ur witness. The outrageous story of the drop dead beautiful nanny who used to be ur boyfriends girlfriend and has nothing to do but devote her life to caring for your 2 yr.old, for free because she is such a delightful child (no offence to Caylee but even the grandparents wouldn't keep her 24/7) shops all day for the child stocks her apt. with toys and clothes for said child, this wouldn't even fly on Days of Our Lives, I am sooo ROTFLMAO.:rolling:
Oh yeah about the "nanny", that is so true a nanny lives with rich people and raises their kids. They are usually about 60 something, because these ladies have the best experience raising children. if KC wanted a hot babysitter, she should have said she was an "au pair" from Europe. Just my attempt at nanny humor.
On a more serious note you can tell a lot about people from their fantasies. I think this nanny was kc's idea of what she wished her life was like, a perfect 10, tall, skinny, cool room mates, and nothing to do but shop and have fun vacations.
frenchvixen
04-10-2009, 12:42 PM
For sure, I will be ur witness. The outrageous story of the drop dead beautiful nanny who used to be ur boyfriends girlfriend and has nothing to do but devote her life to caring for your 2 yr.old, for free because she is such a delightful child (no offence to Caylee but even the grandparents wouldn't keep her 24/7) shops all day for the child stocks her apt. with toys and clothes for said child, this wouldn't even fly on Days of Our Lives, I am sooo ROTFLMAO.:rolling:
LOL, I bet if they had a sketch artist sketch Zani they would have all the models as suspects.
metalcrystal
04-10-2009, 12:51 PM
LOL, I bet if they had a sketch artist sketch Zani they would have all the models as suspects.
Maybe she could pick her out of the VS catalogue.
julie2
04-10-2009, 12:58 PM
I just had a thought, with Casey's obvious love for taking pictures and being in pictures, you would think she would have taken some pics of Zanny with Caylee.
No need for a description, just show us the pictures!
jon_burrows
04-10-2009, 01:05 PM
The moment I heard the description of Nanny (she's a 10, has perfect teeth and is 5'10). I knew that KC was describing herself. Of course she has to lie about the description b/c if she said that Nanny had straight hair and was 5'5 then they would know she was referring to herself but KC weaves in the truth with lies. She thinks she's a 10 and if she wasn't so ugly on the inside I would say that she has a beautiful smile. She does have perfect teeth. The only thing that she changed was the height and of course the hair.
I gotta give it to her. She thought she could outsmart the cops. As a woman, she will go down in criminal history as a criminal legend. Who else has stood face to face with the cops and refused to back down during interrogation so cooly?
This sounds strange but the 'prefect teeth' comment really stood out to me. When I first saw Casey on the news regarding this crime I gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe the death was accidental. I made a comment to my husband about how pretty her teeth/smile was. In fact, I said she would be perfect for a toothpaste commercial. He made similar comments about her pretty teeth. It seems creepy now that such a big deal is made of Zanny's pretty teeth.
FWIW, a 5' 10" women should weigh ~150 lbs so at 125 she would most likely look anorexic.
metalcrystal
04-10-2009, 01:11 PM
I think the emphasis on perfect teeth was another way to put down Zenaida Gonzalez.
One other connection........ the first date both KC & CA use as the date Caylee was 'taken'!
June 9!
Cindy's Mother, Shirley also uses that date early on IIRC. It was an email from Cindy that convinced it was father's Day wasn't it? I always found it strange they were all wrong about the date at the beginning.
TURBOTHINK
04-10-2009, 03:15 PM
ITA-And a "Nanny" may speak with a British or Foreign accent, which makes them all the more cool don't forget...;)
My older kids were blessed to have an Australian nanny. (a true nanny in every sense of the word) I was a single mom at the time and traveled so much it was a necessity not a luxury, but if you do find a good one they are worth their weight in gold.
They still call diapers "nappies" and eat chocolate biscuits. LOL
Brini
04-10-2009, 03:23 PM
This irks me so much! A real "nanny" lives in YOUR house and gets paid for taking care of your kids. She doesn't move around from pillar to post, shack with this and that relative, change cell phone numbers weekly (cuz not paying the bill--why ELSE would you change your cell # after notifying all your "friends" of the new number?). A nanny isn't somebody who's 5'10" tall, has perfect teeth, is a 10... and babysits your kid for free??? plus buys your kids all sorts of stuff- duplicates of what you already have at your mama's home, but needs a freakin' air mattress for when the baby sleeps over late at her house. A nanny maybe takes the kid to the beach to keep her amused, but doesn't practically live at Disneyworld to keep the kid amused. Anybody 5'10", a 10, perfect teeth, plenty of money, etc., is gonna have a REAL life - far more than the imaginary life even kkkkkkkkrrrrazzzzy KC did...
How pretentious KC appears to be for how little she actually is!!!!!!
Most nannies also do not kidnap kids for EXACTLY 50 days, either. ;-)
Brini
04-10-2009, 03:25 PM
Maybe she could pick her out of the VS catalogue.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:
Seebra
04-10-2009, 03:30 PM
For sure, I will be ur witness. The outrageous story of the drop dead beautiful nanny who used to be ur boyfriends girlfriend and has nothing to do but devote her life to caring for your 2 yr.old, for free because she is such a delightful child (no offence to Caylee but even the grandparents wouldn't keep her 24/7) shops all day for the child stocks her apt. with toys and clothes for said child, this wouldn't even fly on Days of Our Lives, I am sooo ROTFLMAO.:rolling:
Oh yeah about the "nanny", that is so true a nanny lives with rich people and raises their kids. They are usually about 60 something, because these ladies have the best experience raising children. if KC wanted a hot babysitter, she should have said she was an "au pair" from Europe. Just my attempt at nanny humor.
On a more serious note you can tell a lot about people from their fantasies. I think this nanny was kc's idea of what she wished her life was like, a perfect 10, tall, skinny, cool room mates, and nothing to do but shop and have fun vacations.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
metalcrystal
04-10-2009, 04:22 PM
To even call someone a "perfect 10", especially in a legal proceeding shows a lack of depth of character anyways, rating other peoples' appearance by a score is something high school children do. It does nothing to help find the imaginary nanny, and CA was just cruel to ZG, who is still wayyy cooler of a person than CA will ever be.
EchointheDark
04-10-2009, 04:34 PM
And I'm sorry, but no way is KC a 10-- and she doesn't have perfect teeth, she has big long squirrel (!) teeth, and possibly an overbite, -- I know this cuz I had 4+years of braces, don't even start with me about her perfect teeth!!!!!
KC should have been the nanny for Zanni's kids, not the other way around. So Zani could have been swingin' her thang on the beaches of Puerto Rico in a bikini, showing her hot body, while KC whiped noses and butts at some rental.
Nobody loves somebody elses' kid so much they'll just "nanny-up" for free. I do believe LE knows more about this alter-ego Zanni= KC thing than we have been privvy to. Or else they better be a-gettin' prepared cuz that will be in some way KC's defense. Nothing G&C said yesterday refuted the idea that they could know that Z=KC, IMO.
Brini
04-10-2009, 04:52 PM
This sounds strange but the 'prefect teeth' comment really stood out to me. When I first saw Casey on the news regarding this crime I gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe the death was accidental. I made a comment to my husband about how pretty her teeth/smile was. In fact, I said she would be perfect for a toothpaste commercial. He made similar comments about her pretty teeth. It seems creepy now that such a big deal is made of Zanny's pretty teeth.
FWIW, a 5' 10" women should weigh ~150 lbs so at 125 she would most likely look anorexic.
She'd look like a concentration camp inmate.
BUT, the As have also described her as 5'7" and weighing 125-130, and 140, respectively.
She's not only drop-dead gorgeous, she can grow and shrink to fit her designer clothes!
Brini
04-10-2009, 04:56 PM
And I'm sorry, but no way is KC a 10-- and she doesn't have perfect teeth, she has big long squirrel (!) teeth, and possibly an overbite, -- I know this cuz I had 4+years of braces, don't even start with me about her perfect teeth!!!!!
KC should have been the nanny for Zanni's kids, not the other way around. So Zani could have been swingin' her thang on the beaches of Puerto Rico in a bikini, showing her hot body, while KC whiped noses and butts at some rental.
Nobody loves somebody elses' kid so much they'll just "nanny-up" for free. I do believe LE knows more about this alter-ego Zanni= KC thing than we have been privvy to. Or else they better be a-gettin' prepared cuz that will be in some way KC's defense. Nothing G&C said yesterday refuted the idea that they could know that Z=KC, IMO.
KC also said, "She has a lot of money."
KC also said, "She's rich, stunning and her hobbies are unpaid babysitting and temporary (50 days at a time) kidnapping."
I know when I was 25, if I was rich and gorgeous, I'd MUCH rather babysit everyone's kids and change apartments and phone every couple of weeks than, say, sit on gorgeous Italian count's deep-water yacht, moored off the
Cote d'Azure.
Whisperer
04-10-2009, 05:49 PM
Something struck me yesterday with regards to this thread when I was watching GA's depo in the civil case:
Q Everything you know today do you believe there
ever was a Zanny the baby-sitter?
A I have a belief in my daughter, yes.
Q My question isn't if you have a belief in your
daughter. Do you believe there really was someone named
Zanny who was babysitting during that year?
A Absolutely.
Q Have you ever discussed with your wife whether
or not she believes it?
A My wife and I believe there was a Zanny there.
Absolutely pure speculation here, but what if it is the defense's argument that KC is really a split personality and ZFG did kill Caylee?
Would this be a viable defense, and can a split personality be proven in a court of law?
The reason I bring this up again is because when GA states the part bolded by me, there is a slight, sad smile on his face - as though he is one-upping the lawyer and knows something that the lawyer does not.
:Banane35: Agree with your speculation...and it just furthered proved my theory that the A's believe that is exactly what is going on. Lee did the same thing with his "I believe everything Casey tells me". All three know that everthing coming out of her mouth is a lie but they think that the sweet person they know and love is hiding in there and had been tricked by the despicable person who harmed their Caylee. I think they have separated Casey into two personalites. That is their only way of dealing with the crime.
IMO, the defense would be crazy to use the "dual personality" to explain murder...however, they may use another type of "dissociation" to explain away the behavior.
I believe GA and LA think kc is Zani. Cindy is hard to read....too much work to get past the madness.
flyonsweetangel
04-10-2009, 06:22 PM
Am I losing my mind? I could swear that the real ZFG did go there and filled out a card. Her BF was waiting in the car. I'm pretty sure I saw that on video with ZFG herself.
I thought she was interviewed on this and she said she did go there and applied for an apt.....
MAMABEAR
04-10-2009, 07:11 PM
Well all the above is possible if you drink enough KCoolaid. Can I get a witness!
Now Beans:slap:-----you know I lub you.:blowkiss:and you know how I feel about this subject so pass the KCoolaid.
I still think it is worth lookin at. You tell me about the time lapses. Maybe that is why KC lived at home for so long. Maybe she had short lapses and maybe all her peeps were more comfortable at home. Maybe one of them killed Caylee and another one went partying and maybe yet another one popped out when she was in the B/R with LA. Maybe nobody knows she has time lapses, cuz they are short lapses. Maybe A's just thought she was just moody when she changed peeps. Hey---just sayin.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
whiteangora
04-10-2009, 07:40 PM
And I'm sorry, but no way is KC a 10-- and she doesn't have perfect teeth, she has big long squirrel (!) teeth, and possibly an overbite, -- I know this cuz I had 4+years of braces, don't even start with me about her perfect teeth!!!!!
KC should have been the nanny for Zanni's kids, not the other way around. So Zani could have been swingin' her thang on the beaches of Puerto Rico in a bikini, showing her hot body, while KC whiped noses and butts at some rental.
Nobody loves somebody elses' kid so much they'll just "nanny-up" for free. I do believe LE knows more about this alter-ego Zanni= KC thing than we have been privvy to. Or else they better be a-gettin' prepared cuz that will be in some way KC's defense. Nothing G&C said yesterday refuted the idea that they could know that Z=KC, IMO.
Casey's upper palate is mis-shaped, too small for her big teeth.
Far from a 10, maybe a 5.
EchointheDark
04-10-2009, 07:56 PM
Most nannies also do not kidnap kids for EXACTLY 50 days, either. ;-)
Yeah, I was gonna say that.... Absolutely!
cecybeans
04-10-2009, 07:58 PM
Now Beans:slap:-----you know I lub you.:blowkiss:and you know how I feel about this subject so pass the KCoolaid.
I still think it is worth lookin at. You tell me about the time lapses. Maybe that is why KC lived at home for so long. Maybe she had short lapses and maybe all her peeps were more comfortable at home. Maybe one of them killed Caylee and another one went partying and maybe yet another one popped out when she was in the B/R with LA. Maybe nobody knows she has time lapses, cuz they are short lapses. Maybe A's just thought she was just moody when she changed peeps. Hey---just sayin.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
Oh Mamabear I know you have got your panties in a knot over this DID split personality thing. This family just ain't high drama enough for you, lmao!
:Banane48:
It's a possibility that the defense could take the cumbersome job of dual identity on as a strategy, but it's not an insanity defense, so both or more of her little "personalities" would wind up with their azzes in LWOP if found guilty.
I also think it would be mighty hard for a jury to believe she had multiple personalities. I don't find much evidence she even has ONE.
Sammiejam
04-11-2009, 01:24 AM
I would totally go for the theory that KC set up a fake ID in the name of ZFG and had used it in the past, then decided to pin Caylee's murder on that fake ZFG except for one thing. It is wayyyy to much of a coincidence, imho, that a REAL ZFG would show up at Sawgrass the day after Caylee is murdered... its just too much for me. I cant get my head around that.
TotallyObsessed
04-11-2009, 10:10 AM
To even call someone a "perfect 10", especially in a legal proceeding shows a lack of depth of character anyways, rating other peoples' appearance by a score is something high school children do. It does nothing to help find the imaginary nanny, and CA was just cruel to ZG, who is still wayyy cooler of a person than CA will ever be.
I truly think that GA and CA rehearsed that little "10" speech, as a way to dig ZG. GA attempted to say the whole speech, but like only GA can do, chickened out. CA on the otherhand, went for the gold. It was disgusting. I wonder how GA and CA rate themselves on a 1-10 scale??? Bet I can guess.
nyvictoria
04-11-2009, 10:25 AM
Most nannies also do not kidnap kids for EXACTLY 50 days, either. ;-)
When did Invisinanny lessen the number of days she was to keep Caylee? Didn't she change Casey's password to Timer55, indicating Casey's "sentence" for an imagined infraction? Did Casey get time off for good behavior by following instructions to steal from Amy, party at Fusion, sleep with Tony, etc.?
I'm confused :rolleyes:
nyvictoria
04-11-2009, 10:33 AM
To even call someone a "perfect 10", especially in a legal proceeding shows a lack of depth of character anyways, rating other peoples' appearance by a score is something high school children do. It does nothing to help find the imaginary nanny, and CA was just cruel to ZG, who is still wayyy cooler of a person than CA will ever be.
ITA!! Cindy is all about appearance. Just look at the home. There are more toys and stuffed animals in that house than there are in FAO Schwartz. Ok, that's an exaggeration but come on! I'm not saying Caylee didn't deserve nice things, but how much does one child need! What a waste, a huge waste!!
nyvictoria
04-11-2009, 10:46 AM
I would totally go for the theory that KC set up a fake ID in the name of ZFG and had used it in the past, then decided to pin Caylee's murder on that fake ZFG except for one thing. It is wayyyy to much of a coincidence, imho, that a REAL ZFG would show up at Sawgrass the day after Caylee is murdered... its just too much for me. I cant get my head around that.
That's the one thing I can't get past either. There were a couple of theories being kicked around. Casey may have been following this ZG. Or, ZG may have posted on her myspace something about apartment hunting and visiting Sawgrass. Casey was already aware of this ZG and read her posting. Maybe Casey has a friend with access to the office at Sawgrass. The friend asks Casey, "Hey, is your nanny looking for an apartment at Sawgrass?" Casey swoops in and verifies Z is indeed at Sawgrass. Or, it could have been a huge coincidence.
If you read back through the "Is Casey the Real Zeneida" thread, you'll see the various scenarios.
Brini
04-12-2009, 05:43 PM
When did Invisinanny lessen the number of days she was to keep Caylee? Didn't she change Casey's password to Timer55, indicating Casey's "sentence" for an imagined infraction? Did Casey get time off for good behavior by following instructions to steal from Amy, party at Fusion, sleep with Tony, etc.?
I'm confused :rolleyes:
Of course you are! Any intelligent person would be!
KC said, "30 days" re: the script. Then, she said "50 days"re: getting Caylee back. I think it's generally assumed that KC changed her OWN password, in a lame attempt to give Xanex the Nanex some "realism" or something.
Re: all that partying and clubbing-- KC FIRST said she went to the clubs where Zanny hung out, to see whether anyone had seen or heard from her (though, she didn't QUESTION anyone about Zanny).
Later, she said that Nanny would call her and direct her to this club or that party, telling her that she would get to see Caylee. Though, Zanny had some kind of magic way to wipe all those calls off the phone records.
KC lies a lot, but she keeps contradicting herself. She can't remember which lies she told to whom.
Brini
04-12-2009, 06:13 PM
Now Beans:slap:-----you know I lub you.:blowkiss:and you know how I feel about this subject so pass the KCoolaid.
I still think it is worth lookin at. You tell me about the time lapses. Maybe that is why KC lived at home for so long. Maybe she had short lapses and maybe all her peeps were more comfortable at home. Maybe one of them killed Caylee and another one went partying and maybe yet another one popped out when she was in the B/R with LA. Maybe nobody knows she has time lapses, cuz they are short lapses. Maybe A's just thought she was just moody when she changed peeps. Hey---just sayin.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
Nope. She wouldna got out of childhood w/o fugues and alters being noticed. It doesn't happen.
Also... DID is diagnosed a LOT more than actually exists. Many shirinks think it's iatrogenic. In the 80s, there was a big fad for diagnosing DID. My own company got several dozen cases of "DID." In every case, it turned out to be a Borderline Personality Disorder patient who was talked into "alters" by a credulous shrink.
In almost all of the cases that pop up, the patient loses the "alters" as soon as s/he changes treators.
Also a "Zanaida" alter would have had to have been evident since childhood-- NOT miraculously turn up, one day, when KC was at the Sawgrass, looking for someone to blame for a crime.
Sammiejam
04-12-2009, 10:48 PM
That's the one thing I can't get past either. There were a couple of theories being kicked around. Casey may have been following this ZG. Or, ZG may have posted on her myspace something about apartment hunting and visiting Sawgrass. Casey was already aware of this ZG and read her posting. Maybe Casey has a friend with access to the office at Sawgrass. The friend asks Casey, "Hey, is your nanny looking for an apartment at Sawgrass?" Casey swoops in and verifies Z is indeed at Sawgrass. Or, it could have been a huge coincidence.
If you read back through the "Is Casey the Real Zeneida" thread, you'll see the various scenarios.
Yep, I have read all those scenerios but they just don't gel with me, I cant put my finger on why but it just seems a bit too crazily convoluted - but what isnt in this case?
*deep sigh* - I guess I am just a believer in Occams Razor - "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." If KC had been using Zenaida's identity for a long time before June 15 then surely she would have left more "clues" to set ZFG up than just a few traffic tickets. :waitasec: But who knows. The entire case is NUTS. (lol yes I am referencing squirrels)
drip~drop
04-13-2009, 01:24 AM
ITA!! Cindy is all about appearance. Just look at the home. There are more toys and stuffed animals in that house than there are in FAO Schwartz. Ok, that's an exaggeration but come on! I'm not saying Caylee didn't deserve nice things, but how much does one child need! What a waste, a huge waste!!
It didn't seem our Caylee had friends or playdates.
Those toys were all, as I call them now, "buyoffs"
Toys in exchange for security and love,
imo
LetJusticePrevail
04-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Didn't Cindy snatch up a white card from KC's wallet, when everything was dumped out on the ground the night the police 1st responded to CA's 911 calls? I thought I recalled something like that. Wonder if that was the "nanny's" id.
Lookylou
04-13-2009, 11:19 AM
Didn't Cindy snatch up a white card from KC's wallet, when everything was dumped out on the ground the night the police 1st responded to CA's 911 calls? I thought I recalled something like that. Wonder if that was the "nanny's" id.
Good thinking. I have forgot about a lot of the earlier things like that. I think we are finding a lot of interesting things that need to be looked at again.
From the very beginning look through everything, take what you want, then turn over what you want to LE. Seems like a theme throughout.:doh:
nyvictoria
04-13-2009, 11:32 AM
Good thinking. I have forgot about a lot of the earlier things like that. I think we are finding a lot of interesting things that need to be looked at again.
From the very beginning look through everything, take what you want, then turn over what you want to LE. Seems like a theme throughout.:doh:
If you want to read about the "Casey is ZFG" theory, Valhall (sp?) posted some amazing coincidences, very thorough and well thought out!! Look back through the threads to find it.
Disguiseduser0308
04-13-2009, 12:43 PM
If KC was indeed posing as a ZFG or ZG and hence received a traffic citation using that name, LE has a pretty easy way to determine it. Compare the fingerprints. My understanding is the ZG or ZFG that was cited had to be finger printed as she could not produce a valid drivers license. I'm wondering if LE has already done this and it's just the nail we are looking for.
nyvictoria
04-13-2009, 12:54 PM
If you want to read about the "Casey is ZFG" theory, Valhall (sp?) posted some amazing coincidences, very thorough and well thought out!! Look back through the threads to find it.
Bumping up a tad to post a link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3391255#post3391255
It's the first post on the page (copied from an earlier post) and you can continue reading from there.
Again, Valhall did a phenomenal job of putting the pieces together!!
Valhall
04-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Didn't Cindy snatch up a white card from KC's wallet, when everything was dumped out on the ground the night the police 1st responded to CA's 911 calls? I thought I recalled something like that. Wonder if that was the "nanny's" id.
I thought this as well earlier on, but if you go back and read Lee's statements what he says is that CA pulled KC's driver's license from the pocket in her wallet and there was a second "old style" driver's license still in the pocket. The OCSO detective reached down herself and snatched that ID out of the wallet...not the one in CA's hand which would be KC's current driver's license.
Balthazar
04-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Didn't Cindy snatch up a white card from KC's wallet, when everything was dumped out on the ground the night the police 1st responded to CA's 911 calls? I thought I recalled something like that. Wonder if that was the "nanny's" id.
No, it was NOT Cindy. The card was snatched out of Casey's wallet by a police officer. Lee is the one who witnessed this and he didn't know what it was, only that the officer was obviously very interested in it. It was located behind Casey's DL, btw.
Friptzap
04-16-2009, 03:58 PM
OK, having a hard time tracing this all out. Is this traffic ticket issue solved now?
If not please provide me with a complete list of consise information as this thread is so long and my time is limited. I have some LE friends I can speak with an OCSD guy that lives in my community. I have several points of contact I can make to some people tat may be able to find out the reality of all this. I cannot gaurentee they will give me anything if it shoots a red flag at them but I will be glad to see what I can do, either way some real officers will get this info to look at.
Please provide the ticket/citation numbers any additional relavant tag numbers associated and the dates they occured. Also the follow up data on what happened in the courts since. Please also provide me with this new information that I am seeing in this thread regarding tags? something about stolen tags?
If someone can make a consise post of all this information along with the oc couthouse link for me to look up the tag info as well, I would appreciate it much and would be more than happy to approach these folks I know. I just do not have the time to connect the dots right now.
Thank you.
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 04:15 PM
OK, having a hard time tracing this all out. Is this traffic ticket issue solved now?
If not please provide me with a complete list of consise information as this thread is so long and my time is limited. I have some LE friends I can speak with an OCSD guy that lives in my community. I have several points of contact I can make to some people tat may be able to find out the reality of all this. I cannot gaurentee they will give me anything if it shoots a red flag at them but I will be glad to see what I can do, either way some real officers will get this info to look at.
Please provide the ticket/citation numbers any additional relavant tag numbers associated and the dates they occured. Also the follow up data on what happened in the courts since. Please also provide me with this new information that I am seeing in this thread regarding tags? something about stolen tags?
If someone can make a consise post of all this information along with the oc couthouse link for me to look up the tag info as well, I would appreciate it much and would be more than happy to approach these folks I know. I just do not have the time to connect the dots right now.
Thank you.
As I just stated earlier in the other ZG thread, I don't see how it is possible that this person is Casey or that she made this appearance or paid. My reasoning is posted there. She certainly couldn't have made the copies last Friday. It won't paste as a table but here is the info:
Zenaida Gonzalez Case Number: 08-CT-0002378-W * Filing Date: 6/3/2008 Case Type: Traffic Case Status: RETURN TO PAY FINE Current Judge: CHEEK, LEON B III
Defendant: ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
*
Count #: 001
Offense Date: 5/24/2008
*
Citation #: 6602RFD
Complaint Date:
*
Information Date:
Statute: 322.03(1)-C - CT- OPERATING MOTOR VEH WITHOUT VALID DL
A OFFICER NARVAEZ
Total Amount Due: $260.00
Date
Party
Type
Amount
Description
6/12/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Voided - Assessment
$15.00
MIDEMEANOR DELIQUENCY NOTICE FEE
6/13/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$328.00
$100 FINE & COURT COST ADJ W/HELD
6/29/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$5.00
CLERK MONTHLY FEE - COLLECTIONS
7/15/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Payment
$50.00
PAYMENT
8/2/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$5.00
CLERK MONTHLY FEE - COLLECTIONS
8/15/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Payment
$100.00
PAYMENT
8/18/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$4.00
COPIES
8/18/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Payment
$4.00
PAYMENT
8/31/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$5.00
CLERK MONTHLY FEE - COLLECTIONS
9/30/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$5.00
CLERK MONTHLY FEE - COLLECTIONS
10/5/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$10.00
FAILURE TO PAY - COLLECTIONS
12/15/2008
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$25.00
MIDEMEANOR DELIQUENCY NOTICE FEE
1/9/2009
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$20.00
WRIT ISSUED - COLLECTIONS
1/12/2009
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$7.00
MISDEMEANOR D6 FEE
4/10/2009
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Assessment
$3.00
COPIES
4/10/2009
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ
Payment
$3.00
PAYMENT
Docket Date
Defendant
Docket Entry
5/24/2008
A
CRIMINAL TRAFFIC VIOLATION FILED
6/3/2008
A
UPDATE CASE STATUS TARG <06/11/2008>
6/11/2008
A
ADJUDICATED WITHHELD
6/11/2008
A
DEFENDANT APPEARED
6/11/2008
A
ARRAIGNMENT SET FOR 06/11/2008 8:00 AM
6/11/2008
A
DEF. REFERRED COLLECTIONS CT./NOT. OF FINES FILED
6/11/2008
A
DEFENDANT WAS REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL:*
6/11/2008
A
IN OPEN COURT
6/11/2008
A
PAY FINE AND COST THRU COLL CT
6/11/2008
A
REASSIGN TO DIVISION
10/5/2008
A
$10 ASSESSMENT NON PAYMENT (BATCH)
12/10/2008
A
DEFENDANT DEFAULTED COLLECTION PROGRAM
12/15/2008
A
DELINQUENCY NOTICE ISSUED
12/15/2008
A
DELINQUENT FEE ASSESSED TO CASE TO87 25.0
1/9/2009
A
CC WRIT OF BODILY ATTACHMENT ISSUED
1/12/2009
A
DL SUSPENSION ISSUED
1/13/2009
A
$6.00 LATE FEE POSTED AS A RECEIVABLE TO88 7.0
4/10/2009
A
COPIES PURCHASES TO01 3.00
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 04:25 PM
I wonder who paid for copies of this file? Interesting.
ibyoungr
04-16-2009, 04:29 PM
My thought on the copies is:
Is there a court date? Could the court have made the copies in preparation and then charged her?
Could anybody request these records and paid for copies?
Could a certain lawyer requested these copies and paid for paperwork?
It also states.. on (copied and pasted from above... see bolded by me) WTH does that mean???
DEF. REFERRED COLLECTIONS CT./NOT. OF FINES FILED
6/11/2008
A
DEFENDANT WAS REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL:*
6/11/2008
A
IN OPEN COURT
6/11/2008
A
PAY FINE AND COST THRU COLL CT
6/11/2008
A
REASSIGN TO DIVISION
10/5/2008
A
$10 ASSESSMENT NON PAYMENT (BATCH)
12/10/2008
A
DEFENDANT DEFAULTED COLLECTION PROGRAM
12/15/2008
A
DELINQUENCY NOTICE ISSUED
12/15/2008
A
DELINQUENT FEE ASSESSED TO CASE TO87 25.0
1/9/2009
Jaboom97
04-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Is it me or is it kind of too coincidental that these documents were copied just a few short days before the States Attorney office announces they will once again re-seek the DP for KC. I don't think they have announced all if any of the factual reasons leading to this decision. I think this might be apropos to the return of the Death penalty being put back on the table. Just My Opinion.
Jaboom97
04-16-2009, 04:41 PM
Defendant was not represented by counsel-even though the docket says that-if you pull up the actual paperwork on OC website-it is apparent that there was not an attorney present when the document was signed and the financial penalty was accepted back on 6/11/08.
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 04:47 PM
My thought on the copies is:
Is there a court date? Could the court have made the copies in preparation and then charged her?
Could anybody request these records and paid for copies?
Could a certain lawyer requested these copies and paid for paperwork?
It also states.. on (copied and pasted from above... see bolded by me) WTH does that mean???
DEF. REFERRED COLLECTIONS CT./NOT. OF FINES FILED
6/11/2008
A
DEFENDANT WAS REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL:*
6/11/2008
A
IN OPEN COURT
6/11/2008
A
PAY FINE AND COST THRU COLL CT
6/11/2008
A
REASSIGN TO DIVISION
10/5/2008
A
$10 ASSESSMENT NON PAYMENT (BATCH)
12/10/2008
A
DEFENDANT DEFAULTED COLLECTION PROGRAM
12/15/2008
A
DELINQUENCY NOTICE ISSUED
12/15/2008
A
DELINQUENT FEE ASSESSED TO CASE TO87 25.0
1/9/2009
It says the person was represented by council but for some reason the attorney isn't listed as is usual. So I wouldn't venture a guess as to whether there was or not. At this point in time it is delinquent and has been turned over to the collections department.
Jaboom, there is no way, if you look at the phone pings on the dates she could have been available, and see that she has been in jail for all the rest, that this person is Casey. The only way possibile is if she has a very knowing accomplice to do the dirty work in her place. No, I don't think anyone could pin it on Cindy since she was working on part of these dates, as her records show.
cecybeans
04-16-2009, 05:02 PM
It says the person was represented by council but for some reason the attorney isn't listed as is usual. So I wouldn't venture a guess as to whether there was or not. At this point in time it is delinquent and has been turned over to the collections department.
Jaboom, there is no way, if you look at the phone pings on the dates she could have been available, and see that she has been in jail for all the rest, that this person is Casey. The only way possibile is if she has a very knowing accomplice to do the dirty work in her place. No, I don't think anyone could pin it on Cindy since she was working on part of these dates, as her records show.
What about AD? She got a ticket the very same day, didn't she? And for somebody who was trying to distance herself from being tight with KC early in her interview she sure jumped at the chance to stay overnight when she describes she had her "personal problem" and GA and CA picked her up asap so she could be with KC. That was sometime in August, correct? Maybe she didn't want to risk a personal appearance at traffic court in October on behalf of her friend. Just a guess, there are certainly other possibilities.
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 05:02 PM
Is it me or is it kind of too coincidental that these documents were copied just a few short days before the States Attorney office announces they will once again re-seek the DP for KC. I don't think they have announced all if any of the factual reasons leading to this decision. I think this might be apropos to the return of the Death penalty being put back on the table. Just My Opinion.
You could very well be right!
Perhaps they've finally realized that perhaps Casey was in fact using ZG as an alias..
It irks me to think she was represented in court by someone.
Wouldnt' there be pictures (mug shots) of the "ZG" that had to appear in court with councel?
I wish a local legal eagle could weigh in on how these proceedings work
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 05:05 PM
What about AD? She got a ticket the very same day, didn't she? And for somebody who was trying to distance herself from being tight with KC early in her interview she sure jumped at the chance to stay overnight when she describes she had her "personal problem" and GA and CA picked her up asap so she could be with KC. That was sometime in August, correct? Maybe she didn't want to risk a personal appearance at traffic court in October on behalf of her friend. Just a guess, there are certainly other possibilities.
In AD's police interview she said she had her own "issues" that were consuming her.
Perhaps she knew about Casey's arrest as ZG, and that is why the URGENCY to speak with her..perhaps knowing all that had transpired?
I'm thinking outloud. But it does "fit"
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 05:09 PM
You could very well be right!
Perhaps they've finally realized that perhaps Casey was in fact using ZG as an alias..
It irks me to think she was represented in court by someone.
Wouldnt' there be pictures (mug shots) of the "ZG" that had to appear in court with council?
I wish a local legal eagle could weigh in on how these proceedings work
Are you saying LE or the SA would have to pay for these copies? I don't think so.
Sumbunny and Cecybeans, do you really think her friend would be bold enough with ZG and Casey's name so much in the news to go there and make these payments? The media already had ZG in the news big time by early August.
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:12 PM
It says the person was represented by council but for some reason the attorney isn't listed as is usual. So I wouldn't venture a guess as to whether there was or not. At this point in time it is delinquent and has been turned over to the collections department.
Jaboom, there is no way, if you look at the phone pings on the dates she could have been available, and see that she has been in jail for all the rest, that this person is Casey. The only way possibile is if she has a very knowing accomplice to do the dirty work in her place. No, I don't think anyone could pin it on Cindy since she was working on part of these dates, as her records show.
Let's narrow down when KC would have had to actually be present somewhere...
6/11/08 around 8:00 a.m. for the arraignment
7/15/08 for the $50 payment
8/15/08 for the $100 payment
(I think someone determined that these were not online payments, but I would like confirmation on that.)
The payments for copies 8/18/08 and 4/10/09 are not necessarily KC (or ZG)--they could be anyone. The clerk has to enter the name of a PARTY associated with any cost, so if someone (let's say Blink to pick a name at random) went in to get copies, the docket would not say BLINK was assessed for copies but instead ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, because BLINK is not a party. Since the copy costs were being paid at the exact same time they were "assessed," it wasn't like ZG's account was really being charged for them.
It seems to me that the 6/11/08 and 7/15/08 entries COULD have been KC without contradicting any evidence we have...let me know if you disagree.
The only real problem is with the 8/15/08 payment entry, if indeed it has been determined that this was not done online. IIRC, someone here came up with a theory about this date having been entered retroactively??? But please don't take that as gospel and run with it...we need to find that post first. ;)
cecybeans
04-16-2009, 05:18 PM
Are you saying LE or the SA would have to pay for these copies? I don't think so.
Sumbunny and Cecybeans, do you really think her friend would be bold enough with ZG and Casey's name so much in the news to go there and make these payments? The media already had ZG in the news big time by early August.
Might depend on what kind of favor she might owe her. Read that any way you like.
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:21 PM
Are you saying LE or the SA would have to pay for these copies? I don't think so.
Sumbunny and Cecybeans, do you really think her friend would be bold enough with ZG and Casey's name so much in the news to go there and make these payments? The media already had ZG in the news big time by early August.
Although LE would not have to pay for the copies, a lot of times it is a heck of a lot easier and ultimately cheaper to just have someone walk in and pay a couple of bucks for public records than to get the records any other way.
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 05:31 PM
Are you saying LE or the SA would have to pay for these copies? I don't think so.
Sumbunny and Cecybeans, do you really think her friend would be bold enough with ZG and Casey's name so much in the news to go there and make these payments? The media already had ZG in the news big time by early August.
I didn't realize payments HAD to be made in person.
I would think a mailed in cheque would suffice.
Or several post dated cheques?
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:33 PM
I didn't realize payments HAD to be made in person.
I would think a mailed in cheque would suffice.
Or several post dated cheques?
Good point. Even if the 8/15 payment was not an online payment, that doesn't necessarily mean it was made in person.
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 05:34 PM
Let's narrow down when KC would have had to actually be present somewhere...
6/11/08 around 8:00 a.m. for the arraignment
7/15/08 for the $50 payment
8/15/08 for the $100 payment
(I think someone determined that these were not online payments, but I would like confirmation on that.)
The payments for copies 8/18/08 and 4/10/09 are not necessarily KC (or ZG)--they could be anyone. The clerk has to enter the name of a PARTY associated with any cost, so if someone (let's say Blink to pick a name at random) went in to get copies, the docket would not say BLINK was assessed for copies but instead ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, because BLINK is not a party. Since the copy costs were being paid at the exact same time they were "assessed," it wasn't like ZG's account was really being charged for them.
It seems to me that the 6/11/08 and 7/15/08 entries COULD have been KC without contradicting any evidence we have...let me know if you disagree.
The only real problem is with the 8/15/08 payment entry, if indeed it has been determined that this was not done online. IIRC, someone here came up with a theory about this date having been entered retroactively??? But please don't take that as gospel and run with it...we need to find that post first. ;)
As I said in the Zanny timeline thread, the only way possible for Casey to have been at court on June 11 is if she were first in line and it didn't take too long. She was pinging at 9:40 am too far away on another tower. It is possible but not likely. On July 15 she did get within range of the court house but not the clerk's office. Can this be paid at either place or only at the clerk's office where the finances are handled? On the other dates she couldn't possibly have been there.
Azlawyer, I assume that is true for an attorney but LE or the SA should have direct access through their computer system, shouldn't they?
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:35 PM
So the only appearance that absolutely had to be in person was 6/11/08 around 8:00 a.m. I don't think we have any cell pings or statements that rule out such an appearance by KC.
But to answer a question asked earlier in this thread, for a traffic ticket it is unlikely her picture would have been taken that day.
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 05:37 PM
I didn't realize payments HAD to be made in person.
I would think a mailed in cheque would suffice.
Or several post dated cheques?
And someone who is using an alias would have a fake checking account with that name, then use it while under arrest? I don't think so.
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:39 PM
As I said in the Zanny timeline thread, the only way possible for Casey to have been at court on June 11 is if she were first in line and it didn't take too long. She was pinging at 9:40 am too far away on another tower. It is possible but not likely. On July 15 she did get within range of the court house but not the clerk's office. Can this be paid at either place or only at the clerk's office where the finances are handled? On the other dates she couldn't possibly have been there.
Azlawyer, I assume that is true for an attorney but LE or the SA should have direct access through their computer system, shouldn't they?
If the arraignment was 8:00 a.m. on 6/11, I don't think it's a stretch to think she would have been done well before 9:30.
LE would have access through the computer to the actual documents only if (1) the court in question is technologically advanced enough that it scans documents rather than simply keeping paper copies, and (2) the court computer system is connected to the LE computer system. I'm not sure either is the case here.
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:40 PM
And someone who is using an alias would have a fake checking account with that name, then use it while under arrest? I don't think so.
The thing is, though, the court would not care whose check it was. Anyone could write the check, as long as they put the right case number on it so it would be credited properly.
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 05:40 PM
So the only appearance that absolutely had to be in person was 6/11/08 around 8:00 a.m. I don't think we have any cell pings or statements that rule out such an appearance by KC.
But to answer a question asked earlier in this thread, for a traffic ticket it is unlikely her picture would have been taken that day.
If this is true (I don't Know) then there would certainly be a registration and proof of insurance that doesn't match the last name and the citation would show Casey's car. This rumor has been floating around for months. No way wouldn't someone have gone to the police station, get a copy of this ticket and expose her. There are people herd that live in the area aren't there? Anyone could go down and get it, to bust this myth once and for all.
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 05:47 PM
If this is true (I don't Know) then there would certainly be a registration and proof of insurance that doesn't match the last name and the citation would show Casey's car. This rumor has been floating around for months. No way wouldn't someone have gone to the police station, get a copy of this ticket and expose her. There are people herd that live in the area aren't there? Anyone could go down and get it, to bust this myth once and for all.
I agree and can't believe no one has done this yet! Seems like copies of the entire file should be available on docstoc or somewhere similar by now. Maybe we should take up a collection in case it's the $4 copy fee holding back our Orlando WS'ers? ;)
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 05:53 PM
And someone who is using an alias would have a fake checking account with that name, then use it while under arrest? I don't think so.
Why wouldn't anyone be able to pay her ticket?
I'd think all they would require is a little note on the bottom of the cheque stating the case number the cheque should be applied to?
I write cheques for my kids all the time...their names aren't on it.
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 05:58 PM
I'd have loved if they asked AD regarding the traffic ticket, and if in fact she were with casey.
It's all a huge assumption..but interesting none the less :)
ZubenElSchemali
04-16-2009, 05:59 PM
Why wouldn't anyone be able to pay her ticket?
I'd think all they would require is a little note on the bottom of the cheque stating the case number the cheque should be applied to?
I write cheques for my kids all the time...their names aren't on it.
Yes, someone else could pay it but who would put their own life on the line to make that August 18 payment when the supposed owner of that fine is under arrest for her missing child? Plus, the person would know they would be a potential accessory leaving a paper trail with their name on it. Like I said in the other thread, it makes for a good mystery novel but won't hold up in reality in this particular case.
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 06:04 PM
Yes, someone else could pay it but who would put their own life on the line to make that August 18 payment when the supposed owner of that fine is under arrest for her missing child? Plus, the person would know they would be a potential accessory leaving a paper trail with their name on it. Like I said in the other thread, it makes for a good mystery novel but won't hold up in reality in this particular case.
:) Time will tell.
Whisperer
04-16-2009, 06:25 PM
There is a Zenaida Gonzales on TV. She is an actress who played a role on "Forensic Files" as Detective Flores.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1086523/
ExpectingUnicorns
04-16-2009, 06:47 PM
Here is some info from BondJamesBond on this subject. Hope he doesn't mind my linking it here as I think it's applicable. If you go a bit further down than his single post that I've linked, they have a bit more discussion on this, too.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3406971&postcount=929
:)
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 06:53 PM
Here is some info from BondJamesBond on this subject. Hope he doesn't mind my linking it here as I think it's applicable. If you go a bit further down than his single post that I've linked, they have a bit more discussion on this, too.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3406971&postcount=929
:)
Thanks! That must be where I got the information that the payments were not made online, although I wonder fior WHICH payment the receipt was unavailable. And it still wouldn't rule out a payment by mail.
What I can't figure out is why BJB thinks she did not appear in person on 6/11/08. The docket says the defendant did appear.
Calling Bond!!
MAMABEAR
04-16-2009, 06:59 PM
I'd have loved if they asked AD regarding the traffic ticket, and if in fact she were with casey.
It's all a huge assumption..but interesting none the less :)
I can't member----have we gotten all AD's interview? She did have a lawyer with her---right?
MAMABEAR
04-16-2009, 07:12 PM
Yes, someone else could pay it but who would put their own life on the line to make that August 18 payment when the supposed owner of that fine is under arrest for her missing child? Plus, the person would know they would be a potential accessory leaving a paper trail with their name on it. Like I said in the other thread, it makes for a good mystery novel but won't hold up in reality in this particular case.
May as well ask-----"who would sign your own name on somebody else's check at a Target store, in front of a camera?". Thieves like this don't care about gittin caught-------in their heads, they ain't gonna git caught. We don't know what kind of person this AD is. KC may have been in some kind of shady"work". We also don't know what LE has (if anythang) on AD. Maybe LE has already figured All this out. But if I was bettin on it------it would either be CA or AD. I think alot of peeps are gonna be surprised when all this hits the fan and I ain't talkin bout the ceiling fan.:cow:
Valhall
04-16-2009, 07:43 PM
As I said in the Zanny timeline thread, the only way possible for Casey to have been at court on June 11 is if she were first in line and it didn't take too long. She was pinging at 9:40 am too far away on another tower. It is possible but not likely. On July 15 she did get within range of the court house but not the clerk's office. Can this be paid at either place or only at the clerk's office where the finances are handled? On the other dates she couldn't possibly have been there.
Azlawyer, I assume that is true for an attorney but LE or the SA should have direct access through their computer system, shouldn't they?
Where was she? Because this case was handled not at the downtown Orlando court house, but the Ocoee branch courthouse. This case was handled there.
Responding to other questions in the thread:
Blink is the one that states the payment was not showing paid on 8/20/08.
I was aware of this Zenaida case record in July. It actually went delinquent on 8/20/08 and I found this important as Casey was incarcerated then and I was suspicious of the connection. I brought it to the attention of a source in Orlando, and I advised the source if there was anything to this issue relative to Casey’s case, someone had better do something to stop a bench warrant from being issued or the press would be all over it. Upon checking the next day it had been corrected retroactively to reflect the $100 payment on 8/15/08.
Information from OC:
Citation was given at 10:45 a.m. on 05/24/08
Location of citation intersection of Regal Point Blvd and Regal Downs Circle (right by the address on the driver's license that ZG22 doesn't live at!)
Vehicle description on citation "1995 Chevy Green Utility Vehicle"
Tag #J223GT
Tag #J223GT - DOES NOT BELONG TO a 1995 CHEVY GREEN UTILITY VEHICLE
It belongs to a Maroon 1997 Ford 4 door vehicle. VIN 1FALP6536VK102001. I won't give owner information on the 1997 Ford because they don't appear to be attached to this case at all...but bizarrely WE NOW STILL DON'T KNOW WHOSE VEHICLE ZG22 was driving because it had a tag on it that belonged to another car! O_O
Title was issued for the 97 Ford in August 2007 and the registration was up to date in May 2008. The registration was due to expire November 2008. The DMV records do NOT show it has been renewed, but some times there is a lag in information being updated.
Concerning whether ZG22 had counsel at the 6/11/08 arraignment:
I found the disposition on the traffic case. This is from the 06/11/08 arraignment. Signature at the bottom.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewAttachment.jsp?parent=DOC235S3662&id=DOC235S3662.A0&docName=20080384111
P.S. Waived right to counsel. So we solved that one. Also, please note that this arraignment was at the Ocoee location of the Orange county court system...not the Orlando downtown one, so this ZG22 never had to go to the Orange County downtown location...the payments can be made online or on the phone (learned that one yesterday in the multiple phone calls it took to get through to a live person...lol)
ExpectingUnicorns
04-16-2009, 07:50 PM
Valhall ~ So good to see you back here!!! I was just on your website looking for more info.
Sorry, I can't seem to make the link for disposition on the traffic case work.
Valhall
04-16-2009, 07:51 PM
Valhall ~ So good to see you back here!!! I was just on your website looking for more info.
Sorry, I can't seem to make the link for disposition on the traffic case work.
Thank you! I just fixed it.
AZlawyer
04-16-2009, 07:56 PM
Where was she? Because this case was handled not at the downtown Orlando court house, but the Ocoee branch courthouse. This case was handled there.
Thanks for the Ocoee info. According to Google, it would be about a 30 minute drive from the Ocoee courthouse to the approximate area of her next ping at 9:40 am.
Hell's Belle
04-16-2009, 08:03 PM
Yes, someone else could pay it but who would put their own life on the line to make that August 18 payment when the supposed owner of that fine is under arrest for her missing child? Plus, the person would know they would be a potential accessory leaving a paper trail with their name on it. Like I said in the other thread, it makes for a good mystery novel but won't hold up in reality in this particular case.
You can buy a money order with cash at the post office with no ID. Untraceable.
BondJamesBond
04-16-2009, 08:12 PM
FWIW, when you pay online you can request a copy of the receipt online using the citation#, IIRC. A few weeks ago when I did this for the no DL violation it indicated that no receipt could be provided since no online payment was made.
BondJamesBond
04-16-2009, 08:20 PM
OK...working from memory is a dangerous thing...so working from my memory should be a felony...:bang:
Still...IIRC, the paperwork that I recall seeing a copy of was stamped 6/11, however, I was of the impression that was likely a date of receipt or processing...that it was the plea made on 6/10 that we were seeing as signed, and ZG22 was a no-show on 6/11.
There's at least a 90% chance I'm mis-remembering this...but, IIRC, it was that same paperwork that indicated (via checkbox) the payments should be made at the Ocoee location vs. downtown. Some commented on this being a problem for the theory that held a payment was made downtown @ the OC Clerk's office on 7/15. The link above sends me to a login page, for which I don't have an id, etc. I recall the pdf of these docs being posted on the original Zanny thread and will see if I can find them.
ETA: No luck finding the pdf of this paperwork. I remember doing analysis on the signature vs. Casey's, and now I can't find it either. I'm on a slow connection tonight, so searches are painfully slow.
Jaboom97
04-16-2009, 08:39 PM
Thank You ValHall for providing the information to support my claims made earlier in the thread, which also have been previously mentioned. =)
It must just be a standard option to say she had counsel present-but simply is debunked by looking at the actual form.
Wasn't it mentioned that there was a $100.00 issue that needed to be taken care of before LP and company could get her bailed out-didn't this occur during that timeframe of the August 15th payment. Has this ever been clarified-that could explain that payment as a condition to get tot mom out on bond when she was just accused of child abuse and neglect.
Jaboom97
04-16-2009, 08:45 PM
Furthermore, if this traffic case happens to be in a prosecutorial stage, that public would probably NOT be privy to copies of these documents etc. I would then say only parties privy would be attorneys, LE, prosecutors, etc...(this is just an aside thought)
ExpectingUnicorns
04-16-2009, 09:19 PM
OK...working from memory is a dangerous thing...so working from my memory should be a felony...:bang:
Still...IIRC, the paperwork that I recall seeing a copy of was stamped 6/11, however, I was of the impression that was likely a date of receipt or processing...that it was the plea made on 6/10 that we were seeing as signed, and ZG22 was a no-show on 6/11.
There's at least a 90% chance I'm mis-remembering this...but, IIRC, it was that same paperwork that indicated (via checkbox) the payments should be made at the Ocoee location vs. downtown. Some commented on this being a problem for the theory that held a payment was made downtown @ the OC Clerk's office on 7/15. The link above sends me to a login page, for which I don't have an id, etc. I recall the pdf of these docs being posted on the original Zanny thread and will see if I can find them.
ETA: No luck finding the pdf of this paperwork. I remember doing analysis on the signature vs. Casey's, and now I can't find it either. I'm on a slow connection tonight, so searches are painfully slow.
BJB ~ re the bold: That's the way this link works. Just ignore the log in box and scroll to the bottom and hit the "I Acknowledge" button. It will then send you to the document. And your memory is pretty good. This is the document that has the box checked for where she had to pay.
Brini
04-16-2009, 09:19 PM
Why yes she did. Wasn't that lee that told that to LE?
Yes, it was Lee. CA apparently said KC owed her at least that much.
cecybeans
04-16-2009, 10:12 PM
And someone who is using an alias would have a fake checking account with that name, then use it while under arrest? I don't think so.
Have we ruled out cash payments?
sumbunny
04-16-2009, 10:46 PM
I wouldn't think cash payments are ruled out. I also don't believe casey or ZG themselves needed to make the payments.
I'd think anyone making a payment towards a certain name would work.
The problem is "who" would do her dirty work in person for her? LEE?
cecybeans
04-16-2009, 11:15 PM
I wouldn't think cash payments are ruled out. I also don't believe casey or ZG themselves needed to make the payments.
I'd think anyone making a payment towards a certain name would work.
The problem is "who" would do her dirty work in person for her? LEE?
Sounds good to me. Or maybe AD for the reasons we mentioned above. Dante? He sure winked out awfully quick. My guess (other than Lee) would be a friend she had mutual dirt on and who might find it in their best interest to return a favor.
BondJamesBond
04-17-2009, 12:00 AM
Information from OC:
Citation was given at 10:45 a.m. on 05/24/08
Location of citation intersection of Regal Point Blvd and Regal Downs Circle (right by the address on the driver's license that ZG22 doesn't live at!)
Vehicle description on citation "1995 Chevy Green Utility Vehicle"
Tag #J223GT
Tag #J223GT - DOES NOT BELONG TO a 1995 CHEVY GREEN UTILITY VEHICLE
It belongs to a Maroon 1997 Ford 4 door vehicle. VIN 1FALP6536VK102001. I won't give owner information on the 1997 Ford because they don't appear to be attached to this case at all...but bizarrely WE NOW STILL DON'T KNOW WHOSE VEHICLE ZG22 was driving because it had a tag on it that belonged to another car! O_O
Title was issued for the 97 Ford in August 2007 and the registration was up to date in May 2008. The registration was due to expire November 2008. The DMV records do NOT show it has been renewed, but some times there is a lag in information being updated.
*snipped*
FWIW...a check of NICB database (https://www.nicb.org/cps/rde/xchg/nicb/hs.xsl/vincheck.html) for the VIN on the '97 Ford doesn't yield it being stolen or totalled. Neither of these being 100%...still...worth checking
"1FALP6536VK102001 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the VINCheck Theft Records."
"1FALP6536VK102001 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the VINCheck Total Loss Records."
MAMABEAR
04-17-2009, 01:55 AM
*snipped*
FWIW...a check of NICB database (https://www.nicb.org/cps/rde/xchg/nicb/hs.xsl/vincheck.html) for the VIN on the '97 Ford doesn't yield it being stolen or totalled. Neither of these being 100%...still...worth checking
"1FALP6536VK102001 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the VINCheck Theft Records."
"1FALP6536VK102001 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the VINCheck Total Loss Records."
Could the car have been off a car lot?
masyann
04-17-2009, 02:30 AM
Didnt Amy have a maroon car. But I do not think it was a ford. I can not remember the make.
ZubenElSchemali
04-17-2009, 09:31 AM
I must learn to not take a break and read here because I always get sidetracked. I will agree, if on June 11 she got before the judge pretty quick she had sufficient time to make it back near home by the 9:40 ping. What I have a problem with is any other possibility. There would be a paper trail for anything other than cash which can't be mailed. Even a money order has a way of being tracked, contrary to what was posted here earlier. I've only gotten one a few times but each time something was filled out, signed and kept by the place where I got it, besides this MO being held in records in some form. So even if someone considered being tied to a murder and defamation suit less of a burden that what ever Casey might have on them, there would still be a paper trail of some sort.
Next, where would Casey get this 1999 Green Chevy utility vehicle? Do any of the players have a vehicle that matches this description? What about the 1997 Maroon 4 door?
The disposition was filled out and signed on June 11 but the top seems to say it wasn't recorded until June 27 at 2:19:10pm, the famous running out of gas day. So the speculation that the payment was recorded retroactively simply is likely explained by being recorded later than the payment was actually made. Happens all the time, but they usually put the actual payment date on it.
So, for this to actually be Casey, she would have had to have gotten a hold of a plate and car that belonged to someone else that we aren't aware of at this point. She would have had to have a friend so unconcerned about a murder and defamation charge that they would do all of the other actions for her except for the first appearance. At least this is true unless someone can come up with a way she could do all this from jail. I don't see how this is logical or possible. But if anyone knows who the cars belong to, I might change my mind if there is a connection to Casey. But, if this fake ID was in her wallet then why wouldn't she pull it out and hand it to the officer? And if this ID exists then why wasn't it put in the report and given to the defense in discovery? It would be their key tool for getting her to take a plea and save the state a whole lot of money and time.
I looked at Casey's writing, her signature and the sig on the disposition and don't see that it could be the same person. Her loops are always very wide and often triangular. She focuses carefully on Zs, even making an extra mark to cross them so I can't imagine she would write a cursive Z in this way or use such small loops, leaving the G open as if it is a Y.
Oh, by the way, there is a Gloria Gonzalez that owed a house North of there, along with quite a few other properties.
Hell's Belle
04-17-2009, 09:53 AM
Even a money order has a way of being tracked, contrary to what was posted here earlier. I've only gotten one a few times but each time something was filled out, signed and kept by the place where I got it, besides this MO being held in records in some form. Respectfully snipped. When you purchase a postal money order, you fill in your name and address on the form but no one at the post office verifies the name and address you use unless you are buying more than $3,000 worth of money orders on the same day. Says the postal manual at 14.2.2.b (the link takes you to multiple sections): The purchaser must complete the money order and customer's receipt by filling in the names and addresses of the payee and purchaser. Money orders must be made payable to a single identifiable party, which can be the purchaser. The USPS does not guarantee a 100% refund on a stolen money order if the customer's receipt is not presented with the claim for refund. and Any customer whose daily total of purchased money orders is $3,000 or more, regardless of the number of visits made by the customer to one or more postal facilities, must complete Form 8105-A, Funds Transaction Report (FTR), and show identification bearing the purchaser's photograph, name, and address. http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/503.htm#wp1150680 Money orders are tracked by the tracking number on the M.O. itself but for amounts under $3,000 I don't believe you can track them without knowing the number. Not saying I believe a money order was, in fact, used here, or that it was Casey.
AZlawyer
04-17-2009, 01:50 PM
Thank You ValHall for providing the information to support my claims made earlier in the thread, which also have been previously mentioned. =)
It must just be a standard option to say she had counsel present-but simply is debunked by looking at the actual form.
Wasn't it mentioned that there was a $100.00 issue that needed to be taken care of before LP and company could get her bailed out-didn't this occur during that timeframe of the August 15th payment. Has this ever been clarified-that could explain that payment as a condition to get tot mom out on bond when she was just accused of child abuse and neglect.
I think the $100 was just the bond amount for one of the "lesser" financial charges.
ibyoungr
04-17-2009, 02:45 PM
snipped and bolded by me with comments.....
Next, where would Casey get this 1999 Green Chevy utility vehicle? Do any of the players have a vehicle that matches this description? What about the 1997 Maroon 4 door?
In May, she was still seeing Ric (kinda - just ***buddies) what kind of vehicle does he drive, she was meeting up with Tony R. and then there is a host of friends who might have borrowed her a SUV - Iassen, Sean, Jonathan? Amy did not have a maroon colored TOYOTA until after her accident - she was driving a rental until June 13th when she went to go get another car.
But, if this fake ID was in her wallet then why wouldn't she pull it out and hand it to the officer? And if this ID exists then why wasn't it put in the report and given to the defense in discovery? It would be their key tool for getting her to take a plea and save the state a whole lot of money and time.
The deputy pulled out a card and kept it...only speculation on WS'rs part that is "could have" been a fake ID
I looked at Casey's writing, her signature and the sig on the disposition and don't see that it could be the same person. Her loops are always very wide and often triangular. She focuses carefully on Zs, even making an extra mark to cross them so I can't imagine she would write a cursive Z in this way or use such small loops, leaving the G open as if it is a Y.
Not hard to FAKE an signature not to look like your normal writing.
Oh, by the way, there is a Gloria Gonzalez that owed a house North of there, along with quite a few other properties.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm same name as the mother of the 25 yo 25 ZG that Casey told the police about. The fake nanny's mother was Gloria.
Respectfully snipped. When you purchase a postal money order, you fill in your name and address on the form but no one at the post office verifies the name and address you use unless you are buying more than $3,000 worth of money orders on the same day. Says the postal manual at 14.2.2.b (the link takes you to multiple sections): and http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/503.htm#wp1150680 Money orders are tracked by the tracking number on the M.O. itself but for amounts under $3,000 I don't believe you can track them without knowing the number. Not saying I believe a money order was, in fact, used here, or that it was Casey.
Postal money orders are also purchased at grocery store customer service. Those I do believe track the number and amount.. they used to 10 years ago.
Just throwing information out there. I can't seem to form an opinion on whether she got a ticket in ZG's name or not. But if she didn't... where is this ZG that got a ticket and why was she driving a vehicle with the wrong plates?
ExpectingUnicorns
04-17-2009, 03:34 PM
http://www.carfax.com/cfm/check_order.cfm?VIN=1FALP6536VK102001&PopUpStatus=0
VIN 1FALP6536VK102001
Year/Make/Model: 1997 FORD CONTOUR/GL/SPORT
Body Style: SEDAN 4 DR
Engine Type: 2.0L L4 PFI DOHC 16V
Manufactured In: UNITED STATES
I don't think this is an suv, is it?
Valhall
04-17-2009, 04:08 PM
http://www.carfax.com/cfm/check_order.cfm?VIN=1FALP6536VK102001&PopUpStatus=0
VIN 1FALP6536VK102001
Year/Make/Model: 1997 FORD CONTOUR/GL/SPORT
Body Style: SEDAN 4 DR
Engine Type: 2.0L L4 PFI DOHC 16V
Manufactured In: UNITED STATES
I don't think this is an suv, is it?
They use SUV freely. There are several types of vehicles they assign this to that I personally wouldn't.
sumbunny
04-17-2009, 04:20 PM
http://www.carfax.com/cfm/check_order.cfm?VIN=1FALP6536VK102001&PopUpStatus=0
VIN 1FALP6536VK102001
Year/Make/Model: 1997 FORD CONTOUR/GL/SPORT
Body Style: SEDAN 4 DR
Engine Type: 2.0L L4 PFI DOHC 16V
Manufactured In: UNITED STATES
I don't think this is an suv, is it?
picture of a ford contour sport
http://www.autopointer.com/docs/dealers/usedcardealers/goodbuyauto/1997_Ford_Contour_gba13_053007202430.jpg
sumbunny
04-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Doesn't look like an SUV to me..
wonder if any of casey's friends knew a person with a car of this description?
~~bumped~~ hehe
ExpectingUnicorns
04-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Doesn't look like an SUV to me..
wonder if any of casey's friends knew a person with a car of this description?
~~bumped~~ hehe
Me, too!
Hisimage
04-17-2009, 10:48 PM
May as well ask-----"who would sign your own name on somebody else's check at a Target store, in front of a camera?". Thieves like this don't care about gittin caught-------in their heads, they ain't gonna git caught. We don't know what kind of person this AD is. KC may have been in some kind of shady"work". We also don't know what LE has (if anythang) on AD. Maybe LE has already figured All this out. But if I was bettin on it------it would either be CA or AD. I think alot of peeps are gonna be surprised when all this hits the fan and I ain't talkin bout the ceiling fan.:cow:
In my opinion the reason KC signed her own name was she could always say:
"Oh my gosh, I can't believe I didn't even notice that was your check, I saw the check book and put it in my purse so nobody would steal it and I must have used it by accident. Silly me, I'll pay you back."
chefmom
04-17-2009, 11:53 PM
In my opinion the reason KC signed her own name was she could always say:
"Oh my gosh, I can't believe I didn't even notice that was your check, I saw the check book and put it in my purse so nobody would steal it and I must have used it by accident. Silly me, I'll pay you back."
Lol! Or maybe, "Gosh! You gave it to me and told me to use it! Don't you remember? It was the same night you hid your money and changed your pants in your sleep!"
Friptzap
04-18-2009, 12:28 AM
Done. I went to the local OCSO substation and spoke with a detective briefly. I gave her a copy of the information on the ZFG traffic citation and the car/suv data that two people posted for me after I requested it above.
She took my name/number etc and said they would look into it and pull up the data and if it looks relevant to the case they will get it in front of the detectives handeling it.
Either way hopefully if this "person" was really Casey posing as someone else, or if perhaps it happens to be the real missing Nanny or simply someone completly unrelated to this case it will all come out after it has been reviewed by them.
She could not promise me that they would be able let me know anything one way or another but asked for my information just in case they needed to ask me anything else.
I mentioned our efforts here and our concerns about this particular citation and mentioned several of the points about payments and such, and the fact that this person does not appear to have returned to clear their license etc etc... as we all have been discussing here.
I will re-post if they contact me, hopefully they don;t come to lock me up thinking I am kookoo for cocoa puffs....
shgrbkr
04-18-2009, 01:46 AM
I didn't realize payments HAD to be made in person.
I would think a mailed in cheque would suffice.
Or several post dated cheques?
Reading way behind in this thread, but wanted to answer this post. Where I live, anybody can go in and make a payment on anybody else's fine. Not insinuating that KC has an accomplice, but just sayin that it doesn't have to be the person who got the ticket, that's all.
shgrbkr
04-18-2009, 01:55 AM
Didnt Amy have a maroon car. But I do not think it was a ford. I can not remember the make.
I remember something about Amy having a maroon car, but not sure when or if this was the new car or the old car or a rental. It was a Toyota, IIRC. I think I remember reading this in the text messages.
TURBOTHINK
04-18-2009, 02:11 AM
http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp150/TURBOTHINK/6481474-1.jpg
TURBOTHINK
04-18-2009, 02:15 AM
Snipped..........
Next, where would Casey get this 1999 Green Chevy utility vehicle? Do any of the players have a vehicle that matches this description? What about the 1997 Maroon 4 door?
In the early documents there was reference to a dark green utility vehicle at the Anthony's house on I believe the 16th or 17th. Two neighbors saw it and saw KC in it.
Valhall
04-18-2009, 12:49 PM
I have not shared that I felt compelled to call Morgan & Morgan a couple of days after the depositions to ask if they knew about the following two issues: 1. the "zenaida" myspace created on 06/16/08 and last accessed on 10/14/08, and 2. the ZG22 with the NVDL citation who has disappeared since about August.
The response was interesting. I'm going to set up two hypotheticals to illustrate. Let's say there's a murder in your local area and you know what you think may be information about another event that could be pertinent to the situation and you call your local police and you say "Do you guys know about [fill in the blank]." If the response is "Yeah, yeah we know about it." and you say "Oh, okay, just wanted to be sure." And they say "thanks for calling" and hang up, you'll get the sense that the information you have may not be pertinent...in other words, they've looked into it and it's not connected.
But if you call them and share your information and the response is "mmm-hmmmm" (in the same way a friend might respond if you share that say a rumored man is allegedly cheating on his wife and you say "did you know so and so saw his car at such and such's house)...that kind of mmm-hmmmm...then you get the sense that they are not trivializing the information...that there may be pertinence to the information being shared.
To both points I brought up the response was the latter. Take it for what it's worth, but I got the feeling that neither issue had been ruled irrelevant. In addition, at the close of the phone call, I was told "and if you find out anything else, please call me back."
And, yes, I was speaking with an attorney.
__________________
sleutherontheside
04-18-2009, 01:57 PM
I have not shared that I felt compelled to call Morgan & Morgan a couple of days after the depositions to ask if they knew about the following two issues: 1. the "zenaida" myspace created on 06/16/08 and last accessed on 10/14/08, and 2. the ZG22 with the NVDL citation who has disappeared since about August.
The response was interesting. I'm going to set up two hypotheticals to illustrate. Let's say there's a murder in your local area and you know what you think may be information about another event that could be pertinent to the situation and you call your local police and you say "Do you guys know about [fill in the blank]." If the response is "Yeah, yeah we know about it." and you say "Oh, okay, just wanted to be sure." And they say "thanks for calling" and hang up, you'll get the sense that the information you have may not be pertinent...in other words, they've looked into it and it's not connected.
But if you call them and share your information and the response is "mmm-hmmmm" (in the same way a friend might respond if you share that say a rumored man is allegedly cheating on his wife and you say "did you know so and so saw his car at such and such's house)...that kind of mmm-hmmmm...then you get the sense that they are not trivializing the information...that there may be pertinence to the information being shared.
To both points I brought up the response was the latter. Take it for what it's worth, but I got the feeling that neither issue had been ruled irrelevant. In addition, at the close of the phone call, I was told "and if you find out anything else, please call me back."
And, yes, I was speaking with an attorney.
__________________
Wow.....brave.....GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! :clap::clap::clap:Now.....change your name, hide your little white dogs, and watch out for crazy squirrels. The "trainwreck" AKA the Anthony family is going to add you to their "list". Now....will that be their list of people to uninvite to the trial, their list of nonexistant nannies and associates, their list of people to falsely accuse of a crime, or their list of lies to cover for KC in addition to those they make up at random ????? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
All kidding aside, perhaps the attorney should sign up for websleuths. It would save a whole lot of time and money.
Spangle
04-18-2009, 10:53 PM
The Tag doesn't match the Car.
Isn't there a law against that? And isn't it the first thing a cop does, is run 'plates'. To get an idea of who they might be pulling over and to let the office know who they are pulling over. In case something happens and they need 'help' quickly.
Who is this cop that wrote a ticket to a person in a car with the wrong tags, and didn't give them a ticket for that major situation??? Sounds like an officer not doing their job.
sumbunny
04-18-2009, 11:39 PM
The Tag doesn't match the Car.
Isn't there a law against that? And isn't it the first thing a cop does, is run 'plates'. To get an idea of who they might be pulling over and to let the office know who they are pulling over. In case something happens and they need 'help' quickly.
Who is this cop that wrote a ticket to a person in a car with the wrong tags, and didn't give them a ticket for that major situation??? Sounds like an officer not doing their job.
I'd agree
chefmom
04-19-2009, 01:10 AM
The Tag doesn't match the Car.
Isn't there a law against that? And isn't it the first thing a cop does, is run 'plates'. To get an idea of who they might be pulling over and to let the office know who they are pulling over. In case something happens and they need 'help' quickly.
Who is this cop that wrote a ticket to a person in a car with the wrong tags, and didn't give them a ticket for that major situation??? Sounds like an officer not doing their job.
There seems to be a few of those in this case! (I wonder how may cops KC dated anyway?)
masyann
04-19-2009, 02:57 AM
The Tag doesn't match the Car.
Isn't there a law against that? And isn't it the first thing a cop does, is run 'plates'. To get an idea of who they might be pulling over and to let the office know who they are pulling over. In case something happens and they need 'help' quickly.
Who is this cop that wrote a ticket to a person in a car with the wrong tags, and didn't give them a ticket for that major situation??? Sounds like an officer not doing their job.
maybe it was cain. I am so sorry in advance I just had to say it. I could not help myself.
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 12:37 PM
The Tag doesn't match the Car.
Isn't there a law against that? And isn't it the first thing a cop does, is run 'plates'. To get an idea of who they might be pulling over and to let the office know who they are pulling over. In case something happens and they need 'help' quickly.
Who is this cop that wrote a ticket to a person in a car with the wrong tags, and didn't give them a ticket for that major situation??? Sounds like an officer not doing their job.
It could also be that, as was suggested above, KC - like her father who often utilizes mention of being an ex-cop in interviews - mentioned in one of her elaborate stories that she is the girlfriend of (fill in the blank) fellow LE and she just bought the car from a friend and she doesn't have the paperwork done with the license or title yet and blahblahblahblahblah - she might have been able to "plea" that ticket down to what it turned out to actually be.
It always struck me that the whole nature of the charges, including that "seatbelt violation" of AD's was simply the minimum official charge for something else that could not be ignored but was not actually named in the citation as sort of a favor of sorts for the friend of a fellow LE.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 01:13 PM
There's another possibility as well. I mentioned it earlier in the thread. Had ZG22 been a guy, I think the odds the tag was checked would have gone up, but this was a young girl. The only reason the tag would be ran (and of course this depends on the officer involved) is if there was any suspicion. Now, ZG22 not having her driver's license would be a big red flag...UNLESS, the person who owns the vehicle she was in was also in the vehicle and produced ID, registration, insurance, etc.
At that point, the officer might not have ran the tags, because he would have proof of ownership on the vehicle.
Just another theory.
jjgram
04-19-2009, 01:13 PM
The Tag doesn't match the Car.
Isn't there a law against that? And isn't it the first thing a cop does, is run 'plates'. To get an idea of who they might be pulling over and to let the office know who they are pulling over. In case something happens and they need 'help' quickly.
Who is this cop that wrote a ticket to a person in a car with the wrong tags, and didn't give them a ticket for that major situation??? Sounds like an officer not doing their job.
Who is the cop ?:confused::confused::confused:
:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
is it one of the ones who is now FIRED ???
:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
Just wondering ?
** I know I would get a ticket / for each violation...
I know it seems
strange to me:confused::confused::confused:
JMO
God Bless !
jjgram
Valhall
04-19-2009, 01:15 PM
The officer's last name was Narvaez.
BondJamesBond
04-19-2009, 01:44 PM
I remember something about Amy having a maroon car, but not sure when or if this was the new car or the old car or a rental. It was a Toyota, IIRC. I think I remember reading this in the text messages.
FWIW, the maroon Toyota was the car Amy got in J'ville after the accident in early June. The desciption of Amy's totalled car has been the focus of much sleuthing. Some locals went after information (e.g. police report) regarding the accident she was in an turned up another Huzeinga. Since it appears Amy's was a single-car (hit a guardrail) and she didn't get a citation (e.g. DUI) there was likely no police report and we lost our best opportunity to get this info.
So....5/24 citation was pre-Amy's-maroon-Toyota.
Also, FWIW, when asked to produce some information in her early interviews Amy had apparently not updated her info to her 'new' car as she had to explain to LE why there was a discrepancy on her docs. :waitasec:
FWIW, Sean D. drove what appeared to be a dark-colored late-90's model Chevy S10 tricked out...dropped low. No pic of the tag sufficient to read, unfortunately. However, sleuthed out earlier per pings and Brian B's statement that it was highly likely Sean D & his S10 @ G&C's on 7/3 (vs. different date Brian B gave) after Casey got her tattoo. Since Brian's description was of a dark green truck (IIRC), I think it is reasonable to conclude Sean's S10 is green.
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 02:44 PM
There's another possibility as well. I mentioned it earlier in the thread. Had ZG22 been a guy, I think the odds the tag was checked would have gone up, but this was a young girl. The only reason the tag would be ran (and of course this depends on the officer involved) is if there was any suspicion. Now, ZG22 not having her driver's license would be a big red flag...UNLESS, the person who owns the vehicle she was in was also in the vehicle and produced ID, registration, insurance, etc.
At that point, the officer might not have ran the tags, because he would have proof of ownership on the vehicle.
Just another theory.
Also, wasn't AD an employee at that Ford dealer? Lots of used cars are sold at dealerships - they make more money on them than new vehicles. When salespeople take cars out for test drives they usually slap a magnetic tag on the car just while they are driving around. It's not always a marked dealer plate.
I know Valhall you did run the registration and the owner is unconnected, IIRC, but this "explanation" could have been part of some story told to the LEO to mitigate the situation and prevent him from running the tags perhaps.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 04:15 PM
Also, wasn't AD an employee at that Ford dealer?
AD, RM and SD all worked at the dealership.
TURBOTHINK
04-19-2009, 05:10 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3392240&postcount=186
It was not Amanda...........but evidently the guy.
jjgram
04-19-2009, 05:38 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3392240&postcount=186
It was not Amanda...........but evidently the guy.
:clap::clap::clap:
Very interesting ~ we do NOT know....
the picture could have been KC or the original ZG ~ ? ? :confused:?:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::confused :
This is very good news to me !
Thanks you guys.....
:clap::clap::clap:
God Bless !
jjgram
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 05:51 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3392240&postcount=186
It was not Amanda...........but evidently the guy.
I had also been under the impression that the male rental agent (I printed a copy that I think has his name but it is hiding somewhere on my desk at the moment) who showed ZG the apt had filled it out.
He was the one that made it look like C - Zenaida Gonzale.
For one thing, it's entirely conceivable he dropped the z at the end of the last name. Also, the C- part almost looks like he started with the last name first and the pen skipped on the horizontal stroke of the G.
Either way (and sorry if this is slightly OT) the fact that someone else misspelled ZG's name on a visitor log constitutes proof according to CA that this woman's name is actually not Zenaida Gonzales would be hilarious if it wasn't so insane. It's right up there with using a two-year old's affirmation she saw a white dog as proof the owner is someone she's never mentioned and who has only ever supposedly been seen by a diabolically pathological liar who has an agenda. I'm surprised the whole family isn't selling timeshares in the Glades.
sumbunny
04-19-2009, 05:53 PM
Interesting The "zg" that visited sawgrass didn't fill out the card herself. So that fixes parts of cindy's deposition.
Where she claims the spelling isn't even the same...
Valhall
04-19-2009, 06:01 PM
:clap::clap::clap:
Very interesting ~ we do NOT know....
the picture could have been KC or the original ZG ~ ? ? :confused:?:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::confused :
This is very good news to me !
Thanks you guys.....
:clap::clap::clap:
God Bless !
jjgram
I have always suspected it might have been KC's photos shown to Harry G.because the report states "twelve different photographs" of the same woman. I don't know how camera happy ZG is, but we all know KC is.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 06:11 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3392240&postcount=186
It was not Amanda...........but evidently the guy.
HOLY CRAP!!! I cannot believe it has taken me this long to catch this. IT COULDN'T BE PHOTOS OF THE ZENAIDA GONZALEZ THAT VISITED SAWGRASS APARTMENTS!
THIS WAS ON JULY 16TH! When they went to Sawgrass and spoke to the manager is when they first learned about the real ZG!
holy mother of pffffffft
TURBOTHINK
04-19-2009, 06:34 PM
Interesting The "zg" that visited sawgrass didn't fill out the card herself. So that fixes parts of cindy's deposition.
Where she claims the spelling isn't even the same...
Here the customer NEVER fills out the card. The rental agent always does that and takes the proof of identity. Then the card and the proof is left in the office in case something happens. That is where I am assuming that KC saw it, because I have been in apartment complexes where the cards were out on the desk awaiting the showing agent to return.
TURBOTHINK
04-19-2009, 06:37 PM
AD, RM and SD all worked at the dealership.
I have always felt there was some connection to that dealership. Look at all the calls there right after Caylee was killed. I just have not been able to connect the dots if there is any.
jjgram
04-19-2009, 06:39 PM
HOLY CRAP!!! I cannot believe it has taken me this long to catch this. IT COULDN'T BE PHOTOS OF THE ZENAIDA GONZALEZ THAT VISITED SAWGRASS APARTMENTS!
THIS WAS ON JULY 16TH! When they went to Sawgrass and spoke to the manager is when they first learned about the real ZG!
holy mother of pffffffft
:clap::clap::clap:
I feel the same way....
I seeeee said the Blind man....
as he picked up his hammer & SAW ! ! !
Cause of ALL of KC's :liar::liar::liar::liar::liar::liar::liar::liar::l iar:'s
she and her little doggies... totto2's
have driven us all N U T S !!!
*** Oh yes... we R Not in Kansas any more !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
we are NOT going to let her get by w/this !!!
We are reading her LIKE a BOOK now....
yes................ I suppose the 12 shots were of KC
12 shots/pics etc....
~~~ dang that KC get's me ticked off !!!!
Thanks for all the work HELPING ~ Seek ~ Justice ~ for Little Angel CAYLEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God Bless !
jjgram
****** Hey... rember ~ B sure U R ~Sins will find U OUT ! ! ! !
ClockWatcher
04-19-2009, 06:40 PM
HOLY CRAP!!! I cannot believe it has taken me this long to catch this. IT COULDN'T BE PHOTOS OF THE ZENAIDA GONZALEZ THAT VISITED SAWGRASS APARTMENTS!
THIS WAS ON JULY 16TH! When they went to Sawgrass and spoke to the manager is when they first learned about the real ZG!
holy mother of pffffffft
Not trying to rain on your parade, but... the interview was on August 6th. Here is link to the statement made by Mr. Garcia:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1080375/0825-Casey-Anthony-Documents-released-part-1
scroll down to page 55
LisaNY
04-19-2009, 06:43 PM
Interesting The "zg" that visited sawgrass didn't fill out the card herself. So that fixes parts of cindy's deposition.
Where she claims the spelling isn't even the same...
Yes, that would debunk that theory. ZG - whoever that was - definitely did not fill out the card. I would believe that it was not a REAL ZG, except the one in the civil suit states that she was there (doesn't she???)
If it were someone pretending to be a ZG, I could see them putting on a fake spanish accent, when the agent asks for her name it comes out Cenida Gonzalee - and he says, as he begins writing -- C E -- and she says, no it's Z-A-N- etc etc.
Would be interesting to know who's picture they were. LE has access to drivers license photos (of all the ZG's), I do not know if they can use them in a photo lineup.
MOO
Valhall
04-19-2009, 06:48 PM
Not trying to rain on your parade, but... the interview was on August 6th. Here is link to the statement made by Mr. G.:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1080375/0825-Casey-Anthony-Documents-released-part-1
scroll down to page 55
No, you're getting things mixed up. Harry G.s formal statement was transcribed on August 6th. Read his actual statement (page 58 of your link). He states "On July 16th..." and he recalls the visit by OCSO to the office and them showing him 12 photos on that date.
ClockWatcher
04-19-2009, 06:53 PM
No, you're getting things mixed up. Harry Gs formal statement was transcribed on August 6th. Read his actual statement (page 58 of your link). He states "On July 16th..." and he recalls the visit by OCSO to the office and them showing him 12 photos on that date.
Holy Crap!! You're right!! I can't believe I missed that!!
:blowkiss:
Valhall
04-19-2009, 06:58 PM
Holy Crap!! You're right!! I can't believe I missed that!!
:blowkiss:
I think what threw us off was the date of the statement by Garcia...and we didn't notice he was talking about July 16th. Because I had not noticed it at all until Turbothink put up the screencap of the actual statement.
Thank you, Turbo!!!
MAMABEAR
04-19-2009, 07:42 PM
LOVE IT HERE! That was always on my shelf. The 12 pis of the same woman.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:blowkiss:
MAMABEAR
04-19-2009, 07:47 PM
Poot--------now I can't member if the guy picked one ovem out. Do you think that was some lind of misprint?
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 07:51 PM
I think what threw us off was the date of the statement by Garcia...and we didn't notice he was talking about July 16th. Because I had not noticed it at all until Turbothink put up the screencap of the actual statement.
Thank you, Turbo!!!
Hmmm - maybe LE was on to this long before we thought. They obviously had several pix of KC at that point. I don't understand the reasoning of having 12 of the same person, but can see mixing several of her in with other photos.
If that mysterious white "id card" pulled out of her wallet was a ZG22 id - then LE had to know right then and there the night it all hit that her ZFG story was a fake and they wanted to know if KC had been trolling around Sawgrass for some reason.
If not, and that was the first day LE was able to interview Sawgrass employees, they may have simply wanted to know if anyone had seen KC and a child coming and going recently. And hey couldn't possibly have pix of Morgan's ZG that early if they had not even established if she existed until that very day.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 07:51 PM
Poot--------now I can't member if the guy picked one ovem out. Do you think that was some lind of misprint?
He said "I looked at the photographs and believed I recognized one of the pictures. I told Detective Melich one of the pictures looked familiar to me and I believed the pictured person may have visited the community as a prospect. He told me all of the pictures were of the same person. He never mentioned the person's name."
Valhall
04-19-2009, 07:59 PM
More important information comes from Amanda Macklin's statement:
"On July 16....[they tell her they are investigating a missing child case and that they have reason to believe she was left at apt 210]...I checked our database and informed the detective that Kayley [sic] nor her mother were listed as ever being a resident or applicant for residency of Sawgrass....I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I did not. I checked for her information in our database and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008."
Okay, couple this with the statement made by Harry Garcia...
"I told him we fill out a guest card for every person who visits the property as a prospect."
If the photo is KC, and Harry Garcia really did remember her as being a prospect at Sawgrass, does this mean she didn't use her real name when she came to look at apartments???
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 08:03 PM
He said "I looked at the photographs and believed I recognized one of the pictures. I told Detective Melich one of the pictures looked familiar to me and I believed the pictured person may have visited the community as a prospect. He told me all of the pictures were of the same person. He never mentioned the person's name."
This must either mean that CA gave them 12 different pix of KC or LE had already downloaded her photobucket stuff. A lot of those pix had KC in different hair colors and do's. I think I'd visualize the latter. It would have been a "red flag" to CA if LE asked for pix of KC that were not recent especially since this was more about Caylee missing to her at this point.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 08:05 PM
Could some one please point me to the document that had the erroneous April date as the day Zenaida Gonzalez visited the Sawgrass apartments?
Please. I'd like to see what date that statement (saying it was April) was made.
Duckley
04-19-2009, 08:11 PM
HOLY CRAP!!! I cannot believe it has taken me this long to catch this. IT COULDN'T BE PHOTOS OF THE ZENAIDA GONZALEZ THAT VISITED SAWGRASS APARTMENTS!
THIS WAS ON JULY 16TH! When they went to Sawgrass and spoke to the manager is when they first learned about the real ZG!
holy mother of pffffffft
I dont get it?
Help!
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 08:11 PM
More important information comes from Amanda Macklin's statement:
"On July 16....[they tell her they are investigating a missing child case and that they have reason to believe she was left at apt 210]...I checked our database and informed the detective that Kayley [sic] nor her mother were listed as ever being a resident or applicant for residency of Sawgrass....I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I did not. I checked for her information in our database and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008."
Okay, couple this with the statement made by Harry Garcia...
"I told him we fill out a guest card for every person who visits the property as a prospect."
If the photo is KC, and Harry Garcia really did remember her as being a prospect at Sawgrass, does this mean she didn't use her real name when she came to look at apartments???
Okay, now I'm having flashbacks of what I wanted to ask the last time you were here and this thread got fun. Has the real ZG actually admitted being there that specific day or is that just something we assumed because of KC's description of the car with NY plates etc and the other evidence that has emerged.
If she has admitted to being there that day, then I would think she was "invited" to look at an apt by "someone" and in that case the guest log would have been a description of the real ZG. I had also heard something about her maybe visiting in April and that the guest log card was lost.
If not, then perhaps KC could have come up with the car description and plates from one of her trips to the tattoo parlor and transposed it because she knew there had already been a ZG22 at Sawgrass and it would crosscheck. Didn't a close friend of the real ZG work there?
Valhall
04-19-2009, 08:17 PM
If she has admitted to being there that day, then I would think she was "invited" to look at an apt by "someone" and in that case the guest log would have been a description of the real ZG. I had also heard something about her maybe visiting in April and that the guest log card was lost.
The real ZG was really there on June 17th (she says so).
Would you happen to have a link to documents about the April guest card? I'm starting to wonder about that particular issue at this point.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 08:32 PM
I dont get it?
Help!
Yuri Melich went to the office of the Sawgrass apartments at 8:45 a.m. on the 16th (less than 12 hours into the investigation). He had no idea when he got there that a real "Zenaida Gonzalez" had visited the apartments on June 17th. He learned it after getting there. Yuri Melich came to that office with a page of about 12 photos of the same woman. It wasn't the real Zenaida, because he didn't even know about her yet.
In fact, I doubt seriously he could have gotten 12 photos of ANY Zenaida Gonzalez by that time. But he darned sure could have gotten 12 photos of KC....peeing, humping, barfing or showing her butt.
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 08:41 PM
The real ZG was really there on June 17th (she says so).
Would you happen to have a link to documents about the April guest card? I'm starting to wonder about that particular issue at this point.
Yikes! I knew you would ask that. I have been looking through old interviews; honestly I can't remember where I first heard that. Perhaps a more organized WS'er can dig that up. I apologize for bringing that up without my source in hand.:doh:
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 08:49 PM
Yuri Melich went to the office of the Sawgrass apartments at 8:45 a.m. on the 16th (less than 12 hours into the investigation). He had no idea when he got there that a real "Zenaida Gonzalez" had visited the apartments on June 17th. He learned it after getting there. Yuri Melich came to that office with a page of about 12 photos of the same woman. It wasn't the real Zenaida, because he didn't even know about her yet.
In fact, I doubt seriously he could have gotten 12 photos of ANY Zenaida Gonzalez by that time. But he darned sure could have gotten 12 photos of KC....peeing, humping, barfing or showing her butt.
I think we need a Thanks-LMAO button!
The fact that YM was over at Sawgrass with 12 photos of KC about six hours after she rode them around Orlando in the wee hours of the night "pointing out" places she had left Caylee means either she gave them that many pix of herself or they had already downloaded them from the laptop Lee returned despite the "blue screen of death" incident (or just got into her photobucket remotely). Because they didn't confiscate either the car or the family computer until later that day IIRC. This was right before her little wild goose chase to Universal.
Valhall
04-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Yikes! I knew you would ask that. I have been looking through old interviews; honestly I can't remember where I first heard that. Perhaps a more organized WS'er can dig that up. I apologize for bringing that up without my source in hand.:doh:
Okay, I found it. It's in the same pdf we're looking at near the beginning (page 4 I believe) in the investigative report. I'm thinking it might just be a typo.
jjgram
04-19-2009, 09:01 PM
Yuri Melich went to the office of the Sawgrass apartments at 8:45 a.m. on the 16th (less than 12 hours into the investigation). He had no idea when he got there that a real "Zenaida Gonzalez" had visited the apartments on June 17th. He learned it after getting there. Yuri Melich came to that office with a page of about 12 photos of the same woman. It wasn't the real Zenaida, because he didn't even know about her yet.
In fact, I doubt seriously he could have gotten 12 photos of ANY Zenaida Gonzalez by that time. But he darned sure could have gotten 12 photos of KC....peeing, humping, barfing or showing her butt.
:clap::clap::clap:
Valhall:
you are c o r r e c t ! ! !
Detec Yuri Melich was there investigating....
he did know the name: Zenaida Fernendez Gonzalez as kidnapper
of baby Caylee Marie Anthony.... KC said she left her on the stairs
to apt 210 !..... then KC said I came back.... driving home from
work from UNIVERSAL arriving at SAWGRASS APTS and no Zenaida
no Caylee.... Sitting on the steps blah b l a h B L A H !!!! etc....
so Detec....YM ... had NOT spoken with ZG and he did NOT have her
picture... because she is NOT A REGISTERED CRIMINAL ! ! !
12 pics... of the same woman....
probably all those pics of KC :ee:liar::liar::liar
w/ short hair
w/ longer hair
w/ blonde hair
w/dark hair
w/frosted hair
w/hair pulled back
w/hair....................etc............... a l l her (KC's) many L@@KS !
it had to be KC's pic.... cause if CA/GA/KC had a pic of the
ZANNY/NANNY Zaneida Fernandez Gonzales they would have kept
on saying..... " WE FURNISHED LE WITH A PICTURE OF THE
KIDNAPPER "
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I'm so happy if this is all true !!!
I'm thrilled :clap::clap::clap:
their really is SOLID EVIDENCE against KC !
*** Then she decided to say..... OOOPS I DID IT AGAIN>>>>>
I meant to say.... J BLANCHARD PARK ! ! ! ! and she gave
me "THE SCRIPT" to follow..... Going to FUSHION ETC ! ! !
Dear Lord... makes my head spin !!!!!
JMO
jjgram
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 09:07 PM
Okay, this may be my bad. (I don't know how to link to a single post) but here is one previously that indicates the application was mistakenly reported as 4-17 instead of 6-17. I still haven't found where I heard that one was filled out in April and logged in but the card was lost.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2458887#post2458887
However, another poster astutely mentions that ZG's telephone number is marked as invalid on that card on 6-25, which would indicate that if KC was trying to frame ZG and had already known the phone would not work (hence her story to LE about ZG's phone being disconnected) she would have had to get the information somehow after June 17th, either through someone she knew or returning and seeing the card herself.
ExpectingUnicorns
04-19-2009, 09:09 PM
Woooow ~ You all are on a roll tonight! Thank you!!!!
Valhall
04-19-2009, 09:13 PM
Was KC looking at apartments on the week of 06/16 to 06/20???
Yes she was! On 06/19 she called Matthew Crisp and makes an appointment to bring TL by to look at apartments. (This call does not show up on KC's records of 6/19, could have been made on TL's phone.) KC tells MC that TL is looking to break his lease and find a new apartment. KC and TL show up at MC's office and MC shows an apartment to TL.
Two important point/thoughts here: 1. KC was making these calls not from her own phone, so if she phoned Sawgrass it would not show up on her cell phone. 2. Harry Garcia's memory may be correct, and we may have the answer why KC's name wouldn't show up in the prospective renter database if she showed up with TL and TL was the prospect.
So...is TL's name in the database?
ClockWatcher
04-19-2009, 09:18 PM
Okay, now I'm having flashbacks of what I wanted to ask the last time you were here and this thread got fun. Has the real ZG actually admitted being there that specific day or is that just something we assumed because of KC's description of the car with NY plates etc and the other evidence that has emerged.
If she has admitted to being there that day, then I would think she was "invited" to look at an apt by "someone" and in that case the guest log would have been a description of the real ZG. I had also heard something about her maybe visiting in April and that the guest log card was lost.
If not, then perhaps KC could have come up with the car description and plates from one of her trips to the tattoo parlor and transposed it because she knew there had already been a ZG22 at Sawgrass and it would crosscheck. Didn't a close friend of the real ZG work there?
Bold above by me.....
I did find this article: http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17122200/detail.html
clip from August 7th article:
"Thursday, Local 6 talked with the only Zenaida Gonzalez confirmed to have been associated with the Sawgrass Apartments.
Gonzalez said she went to the apartments on June 17 to inquire about renting an apartment and filled out a guest card and gave information."
"Deputies were back at the Sawgrass Apartments Wednesday over a discrepancy a Local 6 investigation found on an original arrest report.
Detectives followed up on the lead and requested the original guest card with Zenaida Gonzalez's name on it on Wednesday, sources revealed to Local 6.
A leasing manager who filed out the card confirmed to deputies that Gonzalez visited on June 17 and not April 17, which was written on the arrest reports.
Sources told Local 6 that when apartment managers tried to follow up with the woman after June 25, the phone number she gave was no longer valid."
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 09:32 PM
Was KC looking at apartments on the week of 06/16 to 06/20???
Yes she was! On 06/19 she called Matthew Crisp and makes an appointment to bring TL by to look at apartments. (This call does not show up on KC's records of 6/19, could have been made on TL's phone.) KC tells MC that TL is looking to break his lease and find a new apartment. KC and TL show up at MC's office and MC shows an apartment to TL.
Two important point/thoughts here: 1. KC was making these calls not from her own phone, so if she phoned Sawgrass it would not show up on her cell phone. 2. Harry Garcia's memory may be correct, and we may have the answer why KC's name wouldn't show up in the prospective renter database if she showed up with TL and TL was the prospect.
So...is TL's name in the database?
Very good point! She could have also been scouting things out on her own on TL's behalf. At Sawgrass she knew enough people there (including Dante, Katie and Vicki) to maybe inquire more discreetly as well.
Since KC was often in the Anthony home after GA left for work and before CA came home (stealing food and getting "insurance records" for Zanny) - it's also possible she made the calls from the Anthony home phone to avoid using cellphone minutes on something that mundane. She could have always left TL's phone as a callback number.
cecybeans
04-19-2009, 09:36 PM
Woooow ~ You all are on a roll tonight! Thank you!!!!
I'll tell ya there is a goldmine of stuff on the threads from July. Reading them is like putting on a pair of new glasses and you start seeing individual leaves and road signs. The sleuthers back then were sure kicking a**!
ExpectingUnicorns
04-19-2009, 09:51 PM
It seems like Tony would have said something in his statements about having gone to look at apartments at Sawgrass doesn't it? Or do you think he did say that and it's just being withheld? In any case, she could have gone with/for Amy H, too.
Hisimage
04-19-2009, 10:16 PM
Gee, I sure hope the defense does not use this info to say
"oh, KC does have a problem, she thinks she is ZFG!"
Just what if she had a fake ID as Zanny for the purpose of KC being KC : a liar and a thief. If it is true what some have come up with as a theory, that it was a fake ID the day she got a ticket: then this is what the defense would need to "prove" KC has another personality.
By the way, I don't think KC has another personality.
MAMABEAR
04-19-2009, 10:41 PM
Gee, I sure hope the defense does not use this info to say
"oh, KC does have a problem, she thinks she is ZFG!"
Just what if she had a fake ID as Zanny for the purpose of KC being KC : a liar and a thief. If it is true what some have come up with as a theory, that it was a fake ID the day she got a ticket: then this is what the defense would need to "prove" KC has another personality.
By the way, I don't think KC has another personality.
Nah----that can't happen. Even if she did have multiples, one of them inside KC did it--so they all go to jail. LMAO That isn't a mental illness--is a disorder. I don't really think she has one but like the idea. Sure would explain alot of the BS with the A's.
But-----I do think she had created a new id/person and after she killed CA and GA---maybe Caylee----she was gonna hit the road as the new person----> ZFG. It got all screwed up when she got pizzed at CA the night of the 15th and killer her daughter. Let the defense run with it. KC can't change her personality. She can't even play sick when they find her dead baby.
Valhall
04-20-2009, 07:40 AM
Okay, TL confirms in the 10/16/08 interview with OCSO that Cranes Landing (where Matthew Crisp works) and Mission Bay are the only apartment complexes he went to with KC looking at apartments:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/3846-3901redacted-transcript.pdf
page 52
EE: Now, in this same time was she running around visiting apartment complexes that you could remember? Maybe trying to look for an apartment? And I know we talked about that uh, (inaudible)...
AL: No. Uhm, the only time I saw her go to, was when she was with me when I went to, when I went to go look for, at apartments. She came with me to look for apartments for myself, not for her.
EE: Right. Did that ever take place in that controversial...
AL: No. It was Crane's Landing...
EE: Uh-hum (affirmative).
AL: and uh, Mission Bay.
EE: Okay. Have you ever been to Sawgrass?
AL: No. I don't even know where it is.
What is curious to me, though, is the initial question..."was she running around visiting apartment complexes...to look for an apartment?"
Curious question.
chefmom
04-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Okay, TL confirms in the 10/16/08 interview with OCSO that Cranes Landing (where Matthew Crisp works) and Mission Bay are the only apartment complexes he went to with KC looking at apartments:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/3846-3901redacted-transcript.pdf
page 52
What is curious to me, though, is the initial question..."was she running around visiting apartment complexes...to look for an apartment?"
Curious question.
Maybe not so curious IF the pictures that LE showed to the manager at Sawgrass, the ones where he thought he recognized one of them, were all of KC.
frenchvixen
04-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Okay, TL confirms in the 10/16/08 interview with OCSO that Cranes Landing (where Matthew Crisp works) and Mission Bay are the only apartment complexes he went to with KC looking at apartments:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/3846-3901redacted-transcript.pdf
page 52
What is curious to me, though, is the initial question..."was she running around visiting apartment complexes...to look for an apartment?"
Curious question.
I can't get over the odd coincidences in this case. First she has a fake ZG id and then a real ZF goes to visit the same apts that she was looking at?
AZlawyer
04-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Was KC looking at apartments on the week of 06/16 to 06/20???
Yes she was! On 06/19 she called Matthew Crisp and makes an appointment to bring TL by to look at apartments. (This call does not show up on KC's records of 6/19, could have been made on TL's phone.) KC tells MC that TL is looking to break his lease and find a new apartment. KC and TL show up at MC's office and MC shows an apartment to TL.
Two important point/thoughts here: 1. KC was making these calls not from her own phone, so if she phoned Sawgrass it would not show up on her cell phone. 2. Harry Garcia's memory may be correct, and we may have the answer why KC's name wouldn't show up in the prospective renter database if she showed up with TL and TL was the prospect.
So...is TL's name in the database?
Valhall, thanks for coming in and shaking up all the threads the last week or so. I love your contributions!
Just wanted to correct a small point re: June 19 phone records. Here's what I see re: Matt Crisp.
2:10 pm Casey sends a text message to Matt.
2:10 pm Matt calls her back 4 seconds later.
2:58 pm Casey texts Matt.
3:07 pm Matt texts Casey.
ibyoungr
04-20-2009, 01:54 PM
More important information comes from Amanda Macklin's statement:
"On July 16....[they tell her they are investigating a missing child case and that they have reason to believe she was left at apt 210]...I checked our database and informed the detective that Kayley [sic] nor her mother were listed as ever being a resident or applicant for residency of Sawgrass....I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I did not. I checked for her information in our database and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008."
Okay, couple this with the statement made by Harry Garcia...
"I told him we fill out a guest card for every person who visits the property as a prospect."
If the photo is KC, and Harry Garcia really did remember her as being a prospect at Sawgrass, does this mean she didn't use her real name when she came to look at apartments???
bolded and enlarged by me... I read April 17th. See all the attachments extracted from Police documentation. However, this is later corrected by the Guest card being dated as of June 17th.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7063
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7064
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7067
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7066
Just a thought....
could someone at the police department have pulled up Zenaida's Myspace because her space was still not private as of July 17th at 10AM per a post here on WS.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7068
She had a lot of photos of herself on there and she had different hairstyles and looks... Do you think they could have got a montage of ZG from the photo album?
Valhall
04-20-2009, 02:08 PM
Valhall, thanks for coming in and shaking up all the threads the last week or so. I love your contributions!
Just wanted to correct a small point re: June 19 phone records. Here's what I see re: Matt Crisp.
2:10 pm Casey sends a text message to Matt.
2:10 pm Matt calls her back 4 seconds later.
2:58 pm Casey texts Matt.
3:07 pm Matt texts Casey.
Awww! Gotcha, so she texted him, and then he called her. Thank you!
Valhall
04-20-2009, 02:11 PM
Just a thought....
could someone at the police department have pulled up Zenaida's Myspace because her space was still not private as of July 17th at 10AM per a post here on WS.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7068
She had a lot of photos of herself on there and she had different hairstyles and looks... Do you think they could have got a montage of ZG from the photo album?
Well, not at 8:45 the morning of the 16th, because they hadn't learned of the Kissimmee Zenaida visiting Sawgrass yet. That's the point, the 12 photos were prior to knowing about her. Now, if you're saying did they find the Kissimmee Zenaida by searching DAVID prior to going to the Sawgrass apartment (and prior to even knowing she had ever been to the Sawgrass apartments), my response would be...
There's more than this Zenaida Gonzalez in Florida so why wouldn't they have a picture (or 12 pictures) of EVERY Zenaida in DAVID? They had no reason to have a montage of THIS Zenaida when they didn't have any knowledge there was a "special connection" with her versus any other Zenaida.
Jaboom97
04-20-2009, 03:07 PM
Sometimes it is the most simple detail that turns out to be the most important one!!! Great catch everyone on the picture theory. I can't fathom anyone else's photos they would have had-let alone 12 of the same person unless it was of someone they already suspected of posing as ZG. hmmmmm. makes one wonder....
ibyoungr
04-20-2009, 05:11 PM
Well, not at 8:45 the morning of the 16th, because they hadn't learned of the Kissimmee Zenaida visiting Sawgrass yet. That's the point, the 12 photos were prior to knowing about her. Now, if you're saying did they find the Kissimmee Zenaida by searching DAVID prior to going to the Sawgrass apartment (and prior to even knowing she had ever been to the Sawgrass apartments), my response would be...
There's more than this Zenaida Gonzalez in Florida so why wouldn't they have a picture (or 12 pictures) of EVERY Zenaida in DAVID? They had no reason to have a montage of THIS Zenaida when they didn't have any knowledge there was a "special connection" with her versus any other Zenaida.
That would be correct. Didn't think that one all the way out.... The 12 pictures had to be of Casey. Always good to rule everything other possibility out.
frenchvixen
04-20-2009, 05:48 PM
That would be correct. Didn't think that one all the way out.... The 12 pictures had to be of Casey. Always good to rule everything other possibility out.
Wow, you guys are amazing. I bet her own attorney hasn't even picked up on this yet. You WSers are really combing those doc dumps with a fine toothpick. I wish I had that kind of patience. If I ever need a P.I. I will hire one of yous. LOL. Are there any P.I's in the room? It's hard to believe that you all are amateurs.
frenchvixen
04-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Sometimes it is the most simple detail that turns out to be the most important one!!! Great catch everyone on the picture theory. I can't fathom anyone else's photos they would have had-let alone 12 of the same person unless it was of someone they already suspected of posing as ZG. hmmmmm. makes one wonder....
I also want to note that the guy wasn't too sure that he saw her. He said that she looked familiar. I'm sure the defense will say that KC was known to go to Sawgrass because she has friends there. What annoys me is that the defense has an answer or explanation for everything.. well not everything but almost.
chefmom
04-20-2009, 06:13 PM
I also want to note that the guy wasn't too sure that he saw her. He said that she looked familiar. I'm sure the defense will say that KC was known to go to Sawgrass because she has friends there. What annoys me is that the defense has an answer or explanation for everything.. well not everything but almost.
Yes, but he said that he thought she looked familiar and might have come to the community as a prospect. That is a different recollection than recognizing her as someone he had seen around the complex. Big difference between "prospect" and visitor. If he remembers her as a prospect, that means that she came there looking to view or rent an apartment.
sumbunny
04-21-2009, 08:16 AM
I still wonder about that zg22 that was stopped for a traffic ticket. Funny, noone's found "that" zg. Or have they?
chefmom
04-21-2009, 11:02 AM
I still wonder about that zg22 that was stopped for a traffic ticket. Funny, noone's found "that" zg. Or have they?
Yes, it is funny, isn't it? It seems like the "ZG22" would have popped right up at the beginning for the police, considering she received a ticket in such a close timeframe as the alleged kidnapping. One would think that she would have been "in the system" with an outstanding violation payment. I don't know if this theory is true, but I can't help but think that if it is, LE is all over it. At least, I hope they are.
Seebra
04-21-2009, 12:16 PM
I still wonder about that zg22 that was stopped for a traffic ticket. Funny, noone's found "that" zg. Or have they?
This has been boggling my mind as well from early on - especially in that we know KC cashed a check at BOA, and then when CA took the money, there was the exact difference between what was taken out and what was left that equaled EXACTLy a payment of the fine that day.
There is no way that LE has overlooked this - they have GOT to have information about it. They HAVE TO KNOW who this ZFG is.
AZlawyer
04-21-2009, 12:20 PM
This has been boggling my mind as well from early on - especially in that we know KC cashed a check at BOA, and then when CA took the money, there was the exact difference between what was taken out and what was left that equaled EXACTLy a payment of the fine that day.
There is no way that LE has overlooked this - they have GOT to have information about it. They HAVE TO KNOW who this ZFG is.
I agree that it is beyond odd that no "real" ZG22 has been located, and that there are some coincidences that suggest a connection between KC and this ticket.
But just for the sake of accuracy...we don't know exactly how much $$$ was left when CA took it from KC's purse. LA said there were a bunch of 20s and gave a general estimate of how much was there (I can't remember the estimate--maybe $160 to $200?), but he did not count the $$$.
cecybeans
04-21-2009, 12:30 PM
bolded and enlarged by me... I read April 17th. See all the attachments extracted from Police documentation. However, this is later corrected by the Guest card being dated as of June 17th.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7063
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7064
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7067
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7066
Just a thought....
could someone at the police department have pulled up Zenaida's Myspace because her space was still not private as of July 17th at 10AM per a post here on WS.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7068
She had a lot of photos of herself on there and she had different hairstyles and looks... Do you think they could have got a montage of ZG from the photo album?
If Sgt. Allen asked KC to identify all of the ZG's in the DAVID system that day, would one of them be ZG22?
And If LE had a ZG22 id/license from her wallet and had already shown the KC photos to HG at Sawgrass, wouldn't this be an attempt to also catch her in another lie?
jjgram
04-21-2009, 12:43 PM
bolded and enlarged by me... I read April 17th. See all the attachments extracted from Police documentation. However, this is later corrected by the Guest card being dated as of June 17th.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7063
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7064
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7067
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7066
Just a thought....
could someone at the police department have pulled up Zenaida's Myspace because her space was still not private as of July 17th at 10AM per a post here on WS.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=7068
She had a lot of photos of herself on there and she had different hairstyles and looks... Do you think they could have got a montage of ZG from the photo album?
*** When I see this "C" it.... L@@Ks like a "G" that is
NOT FULLY THERE>>>
L@@K : at the "G" to the right...
the stroke extending from LEFT TO RIGHT to make into a "G"
L@@KS : the same as the ( - ) dash after the "C"
so........... maybe the stroke of the ink pen... did NOT follow through
and
the so called..... "C" is really a "G"
say the Sawgrass person ask : what is your name ?
she says "Gonzalez" he starts to write and ....:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
MAYBE ! ? Could be....:confused::confused::confused:
just my opinion
JMO
God Bless
jjgram
Valhall
04-21-2009, 12:49 PM
say the Sawgrass person ask : what is your name ?
she says "Gonzalez" he starts to write and ....:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
MAYBE ! ? Could be....:confused::confused::confused:
just my opinion
JMO
God Bless
jjgram
This is exactly what I think happened. He just accidentally started to write the last name on the first name line and caught himself.
Just another "conspiraseh" dying a painful death.
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