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nyvictoria
04-21-2009, 01:10 PM
This is exactly what I think happened. He just accidentally started to write the last name on the first name line and caught himself.

Just another "conspiraseh" dying a painful death.

ITA! This insignificant little horse has been beaten to death, flattened by a steamroller, buried and now exhumed! All because Cindy would like us to believe she uncovered some particularly relevant heretofore undiscovered evidence? Let's let this poor horsey RIP!

sumbunny
04-21-2009, 01:17 PM
Doesn't it make you want to scream from the rooftops WILL THE REAL ZG that got the traffic ticket please step forward!!!!

It's completely hinky that she hasn't. I'd think she would want to clear her name as well??

ClockWatcher
04-21-2009, 01:36 PM
Doesn't it make you want to scream from the rooftops WILL THE REAL ZG that got the traffic ticket please step forward!!!!

It's completely hinky that she hasn't. I'd think she would want to clear her name as well??

She can't. She's behind bars and her fake ID was confiscated by LE.

ClockWatcher
04-21-2009, 01:44 PM
[QUOTE=cecybeans;3639883]If Sgt. Allen asked KC to identify all of the ZG's in the DAVID system that day, would one of them be ZG22? No. Fake ID's do not show up in the database, (pronunciated dahhhtabase, thank you :crazy:)

And If LE had a ZG22 id/license from her wallet and had already shown the KC photos to HG at Sawgrass, wouldn't this be an attempt to also catch her in another lie?[/QUOT

indallas2
04-21-2009, 01:45 PM
She can't. She's behind bars and her fake ID was confiscated by LE.

Has the fake ID been seen in any of the document dumps??? I would really love to see who's name is on it. If it is ZG then I would think that would seal the case up for sure.

sumbunny
04-21-2009, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE=cecybeans;3639883]If Sgt. Allen asked KC to identify all of the ZG's in the DAVID system that day, would one of them be ZG22? No. Fake ID's do not show up in the database, (pronunciated dahhhtabase, thank you :crazy:)

And If LE had a ZG22 id/license from her wallet and had already shown the KC photos to HG at Sawgrass, wouldn't this be an attempt to also catch her in another lie?[/QUOT

I totally agree with your posts. The one thing that makes me wonder is, why LE/SA wouldn't hand over that evidence to JB yet?

You'd think it would be part of the document dumps and common knowledge by now?

Valhall
04-21-2009, 01:52 PM
[QUOTE=cecybeans;3639883]If Sgt. Allen asked KC to identify all of the ZG's in the DAVID system that day, would one of them be ZG22? No. Fake ID's do not show up in the database, (pronunciated dahhhtabase, thank you :crazy:)

And If LE had a ZG22 id/license from her wallet and had already shown the KC photos to HG at Sawgrass, wouldn't this be an attempt to also catch her in another lie?[/QUOT

Hold on a minute. We're not talking about a "fake" fake ID, we're talking about a REAL fake ID. It is in the Florida DMV. It would most likely have shown up in the DAVID.

indallas2
04-21-2009, 01:53 PM
[quote=ClockWatcher;3640243]

I totally agree with your posts. The one thing that makes me wonder is, why LE/SA wouldn't hand over that evidence to JB yet?

You'd think it would be part of the document dumps and common knowledge by now?

I would think so too. (things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm)

MAMABEAR
04-21-2009, 03:08 PM
[QUOTE=ClockWatcher;3640243]

Hold on a minute. We're not talking about a "fake" fake ID, we're talking about a REAL fake ID. It is in the Florida DMV. It would most likely have shown up in the DAVID.

Would this real/fake ID have a pic in David (not that I know who David is, you can call me CA if u wanna). I know that some has said that there is probably a fanger print with the ticket-right? But if the ID is fake and not issued thru proper channels, would there be a photo?

cecybeans
04-21-2009, 03:37 PM
Here's another little wrinkle that might help us think of things (slightly OT but in the realm of ZG).

On the guest card that HG fills out for the real ZG, it lists "prompt" questions for the rental agent to ask to make the profile uniform.

The last question on the form before the rental agent fills out the name of the contact is "All I need now is your photo ID. Thank you [Customer Name]. Please excuse me while I put your ID in a secure locaton.

[Customer Name], thank you for waiting so patiently. Are you ready to take a look?

Now, I'm not sure if this was actually protocol or not, or even if it was followed by all rental agents, but this suggests to me that a photo ID of the prospective tenant was procured and placed in the office perhaps? Some place in which you might need to thank the prospect for waiting patiently.

If this actually was SOP at Sawgrass, then Ms. Gonzalez and her DL might have been parted for some time while she went to view the apt. I know car dealerships do this, and often xerox the license and run credit checks while prospects are taking their test drives. (Hence the vulnerability of identity theft in both locations). Well, it gives a new logistics angle if nothing else.

sumbunny
04-21-2009, 03:41 PM
Here's another little wrinkle that might help us think of things (slightly OT but in the realm of ZG).

On the guest card that HG fills out for the real ZG, it lists "prompt" questions for the rental agent to ask to make the profile uniform.

The last question on the form before the rental agent fills out the name of the contact is "All I need now is your photo ID. Thank you [Customer Name]. Please excuse me while I put your ID in a secure locaton.

[Customer Name], thank you for waiting so patiently. Are you ready to take a look?

Now, I'm not sure if this was actually protocol or not, or even if it was followed by all rental agents, but this suggests to me that a photo ID of the prospective tenant was procured and placed in the office perhaps? Some place in which you might need to thank the prospect for waiting patiently.

If this actually was SOP at Sawgrass, then Ms. Gonzalez and her DL might have been parted for some time while she went to view the apt. I know car dealerships do this, and often xerox the license and run credit checks while prospects are taking their test drives. (Hence the vulnerability of identity theft in both locations). Well, it gives a new logistics angle if nothing else.

The thing is ZG22 was stopped earlier then June 17th for a traffic violation

Valhall
04-21-2009, 03:53 PM
[QUOTE=Valhall;3640274]

Would this real/fake ID have a pic in David (not that I know who David is, you can call me CA if u wanna). I know that some has said that there is probably a fanger print with the ticket-right? But if the ID is fake and not issued thru proper channels, would there be a photo?

The ID is NOT fake. It is a Florida state issued driver's license. That's what i'm trying to say. It might be fake to KC (if it is hers), but it isn't fake as in manufactured on the street.

kew17
04-21-2009, 03:55 PM
I was in the apartment business for 25 years. All though there is a basic similarity in procedure from state to state and management company to company, the standard procedure would be one of the following scenarios:

**Take the picture ID and copy it and staple to the guest card. (Note that at one time we were told not to do this any longer due to some legality of photo coping an ID - security issue for the prospect) Return the ID to the prospect.

**Take the picture ID and leave it in a "locked" office during the tour of the property and return it to the prospect after the viewing. (for the safety of the agent, this was a preferred procedure as the prospect would need to return to the office)

Just some notes on procedures: We stopped taking copies of the ID because inevitably, the guest card with the copy attached was left in a "follow up" file or box and easily available should someone break into the office or snoop through files if the office was left unlocked and was unoccupied. My preferred SOP was item 2, as it prompted a return visit to the office. Which gave the agent additional time to close the deal, but also as a safety feature if the prospect was actually going to try to do something to the agent while out on the property and try to leave.

So just some foods for thoughts. Please feel free to ask any questions about the apartment issues and I'll try to answer the best I can.
Thanks,
kew17

frenchvixen
04-21-2009, 04:04 PM
[QUOTE=MAMABEAR;3640608]

The ID is NOT fake. It is a Florida state issued driver's license. That's what i'm trying to say. It might be fake to KC (if it is hers), but it isn't fake as in manufactured on the street.

It's possible one of her LE lovers assisted her in getting that ID. I imagine that they would not come forward as it would jeopardize their job.

MAMABEAR
04-21-2009, 04:24 PM
[QUOTE=MAMABEAR;3640608]

The ID is NOT fake. It is a Florida state issued driver's license. That's what i'm trying to say. It might be fake to KC (if it is hers), but it isn't fake as in manufactured on the street.

Wow! Thanks!

MAMABEAR
04-21-2009, 04:41 PM
So, it does seem that the ZFG/ZG names whirled around KC's head for a few years---starting in school. Seems to me she had made quit a collection of ZFG's for any future use. It could have been that she was gonna skip Fla with a new ID, ZFG/ZG---but CA nixed that plan when she went to get her that night. While in her mother's house with no where to run since LA was baby sittin her in the bedroom----She pulled ZFG off the shelf and called her the kidnapper. Have said this for awhile now and feel like I am repeating myself. KC is ZFG. How many of us could "spell" ZFG to the 911 operator as smooth as KC did that night.
\
Well, maybe I could if it was written in a script. Maybe I couldn't--ask Beans how I read. LMAO

zippitydo
04-21-2009, 05:36 PM
So, it does seem that the ZFG/ZG names whirled around KC's head for a few years---starting in school. Seems to me she had made quit a collection of ZFG's for any future use. It could have been that she was gonna skip Fla with a new ID, ZFG/ZG---but CA nixed that plan when she went to get her that night. While in her mother's house with no where to run since LA was baby sittin her in the bedroom----She pulled ZFG off the shelf and called her the kidnapper. Have said this for awhile now and feel like I am repeating myself. KC is ZFG. How many of us could "spell" ZFG to the 911 operator as smooth as KC did that night.
\
Well, maybe I could if it was written in a script. Maybe I couldn't--ask Beans how I read. LMAO

Thanks, mama! I have always believed this. did anyone hear GA refer to Caylee as 'our daughter" in the depo? I just caught that listening to Mark K. on NG

sumbunny
04-22-2009, 12:50 PM
Valhall ~ So good to see you back here!!! I was just on your website looking for more info.

Sorry, I can't seem to make the link for disposition on the traffic case work.

O/T but I'd love to see your website Valhall :)

Valhall
04-22-2009, 01:11 PM
sum,

I don't have a website. My hubby is one of the owners of abovetopsecret.com. I'm just a member over there. :D

JWG
04-23-2009, 12:24 PM
I think I might have a possible answer to this. KC's driver's license was not issued until July 2, 2002...that's almost 4 months AFTER she turned 16. And it doesn't surprise me. When you asked this question I got to thinking about the controlling CA issue and I had a suspicion that KC wasn't allowed to get a learner's permit. If she had been able to, it would have been issued as early as September 2001.

Whether the ZG22 license was issued first as a learner's (which would have been as early as July 2001, or whether it was issued in January 2002 when ZG22 turned 16 it would have given her a license a full 7 months before she ended up getting one, and maybe as long as a year.

Slowly but surely trying to go through this whole thread. The above post caught my eye.

Last July when IMing with Iassen, he asked her about who was watching Caylee and part of KC's response regarding the nanny was that she had known her for six years. KC was 22 at the time, so she would have known her since she was 16. AFAIK, this is the only time she mentioned to anyone she had known Zanny for that long.

reeseeva
04-23-2009, 12:38 PM
Slowly but surely trying to go through this whole thread. The above post caught my eye.

Last July when IMing with Iassen, he asked her about who was watching Caylee and part of KC's response regarding the nanny was that she had known her for six years. KC was 22 at the time, so she would have known her since she was 16. AFAIK, this is the only time she mentioned to anyone she had known Zanny for that long.

JWG, With all due respect, how can we believe anything she says, as it changes from 2 1/2 yrs., to 3 years, & I do remember that text about the 6 years, & how much she loved the Nanny??:liar::liar::liar:

I believe on another thread someone mentioned the Gonzalez name was known to her in highschool. Maybe she heard the name, over & over, for so many years, it became hardwired in her brain & produced the Imaginanny that grew over time?? Just a thought.

KenoshaKid
04-23-2009, 12:54 PM
This has been boggling my mind as well from early on - especially in that we know KC cashed a check at BOA, and then when CA took the money, there was the exact difference between what was taken out and what was left that equaled EXACTLy a payment of the fine that day.

There is no way that LE has overlooked this - they have GOT to have information about it. They HAVE TO KNOW who this ZFG is.

Wouldn't the video from the police car show something? Not sure how long they save that stuff.

JWG
04-23-2009, 01:18 PM
JWG, With all due respect, how can we believe anything she says, as it changes from 2 1/2 yrs., to 3 years, & I do remember that text about the 6 years, & how much she loved the Nanny??:liar::liar::liar:

I believe on another thread someone mentioned the Gonzalez name was known to her in highschool. Maybe she heard the name, over & over, for so many years, it became hardwired in her brain & produced the Imaginanny that grew over time?? Just a thought.

The only reason I mentioned it was to tie it back to Val's theory as to why KC would want a fake ID at age 16. If her theory is correct, then KC let a little truth slip in her lie.

JWG
04-23-2009, 01:21 PM
[quote=ClockWatcher;3640243]

I totally agree with your posts. The one thing that makes me wonder is, why LE/SA wouldn't hand over that evidence to JB yet?

You'd think it would be part of the document dumps and common knowledge by now?

If the ID really existed and was taken from KC by the officer that first night, it seems it would be pretty damning evidence - incuplatory. I believe SA only has to turn over exculpatory evidence to the defense.

However, if LE really did take the ID, one would think they would have thrown that little fact back at KC or her parents during one of the interviews. So, I'm thinking the ID was not taken.

JWG
04-23-2009, 01:27 PM
FWIW, when you pay online you can request a copy of the receipt online using the citation#, IIRC. A few weeks ago when I did this for the no DL violation it indicated that no receipt could be provided since no online payment was made.

The laptop internet history seems to be pretty complete for the week leading up to July 15. There are no URLs or cookies for any government or official website in that history, leading me to believe no online payment was made.

JWG
04-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Are you saying LE or the SA would have to pay for these copies? I don't think so.

Sumbunny and Cecybeans, do you really think her friend would be bold enough with ZG and Casey's name so much in the news to go there and make these payments? The media already had ZG in the news big time by early August.

LE and SA would not have to pay, but JB would. It is possible he is searching for the "real" ZG, and this could be one of the things he wanted to keep secret as part of his discovery process.

Valhall
04-23-2009, 01:34 PM
LE and SA would not have to pay, but JB would. It is possible he is searching for the "real" ZG, and this could be one of the things he wanted to keep secret as part of his discovery process.

If there is anything to this theory, I can't see JB wanting this to become public. (just my opinion)

JWG
04-23-2009, 01:39 PM
Thanks Val for your great work. :blowkiss:

Not here to criticize...only to help tie up some loose ends.



The following is from a post I made on another board on 01/29/09:

** SNIPPED **

June 12, 2008 - KC search reunion.com for "Zenaida Gonzalez" age 25.
KC search USSearch.com for "Zenaida Fernandez", Jacksonville, FL

** SNIPPED **

May have been clarified here already, but June 12 was when the internet history "index.dat" file containing this search was create, but the actual search was July 16. Per FBI interview, George mentions he did search on the computer for a ZFG after stuff hit the fan in July.


July 15, 2008 - KC goes to a downtown Orlando Bank of America branch and withdraws $250 from AH's bank account. This BoA branch is less than one block from the Orange County Clerk's Office. KC also attempts to pay a $574 AT&T cell phone bill, but there is not anough money left in AH's account for the payment to go through.
ZG22 makes a $50.00 payment (http://******************/fun-images/zpic4.jpg) to the Collection Court on the 05/24/08 driving without a valid license citation.
This is the day before KC is arrested.

** SNIPPED **

Per fraud charge documents, KC actually withdrew money from the BoA branch on Conway near Sawgrass. This is supported by the pings of July 15. The branch near the Court is where the BoA investigations office is located. Both addresses are listed on the documents (BoA is pressing charges against KC), which is why the locations were confused.


September 11, 2008 - The status of KC's traffic citation issued on 8/4/03 is changed to Prosecutorial (http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/ChargeDetails.aspx?SessionID=4ed62f64-778e-4b42-b233-cce5e2bf9399&CaseID=3321460&CountID=2896104) even though the charges were dismissed on 8/12/03. There is no clear explanation why a case that has been procedurally and properly dismissed to be changed to Prosecutorial in status.
This is the same day charging documents are filed against KC listing 10 economic crimes.

** SNIPPED **


I checked that status a little while ago and it does not say prosecutorial. It is possible I am looking in the wrong place. Can you check and, if you see prosecutorial status, point me to where I should be looking?

TIA :blowkiss:

JWG
04-23-2009, 01:41 PM
If there is anything to this theory, I can't see JB wanting this to become public. (just my opinion)

Yeah...if it turned out to be KC, the last thing he'd want is that getting out!

ZubenElSchemali
04-23-2009, 01:46 PM
LE and SA would not have to pay, but JB would. It is possible he is searching for the "real" ZG, and this could be one of the things he wanted to keep secret as part of his discovery process.

Yes, you are right. Good point, JWG. He would need to do his best to track down any ZGs and check them out, especially this one.

Are you sure that they don't have to hand over all evidence they will use against her? I'm pretty sure they are bound by law to hand over everything they have in a reasonable amount of time. So far they've pretty much been handing over everything but what could potentially be the most important, blaming it all on the slow pace of the outside forces they don't have control over. By now they surely have everything tested from July and probably the December tests too but each time JB has to beg the judge to make them hand it over.

Valhall
04-23-2009, 01:57 PM
I checked that status a little while ago and it does not say prosecutorial. It is possible I am looking in the wrong place. Can you check and, if you see prosecutorial status, point me to where I should be looking?

TIA :blowkiss:

Hey, never worry about anything that might clarify things! I'm just looking for the truth like the rest of the members!!

Okay, it still shows prosecutorial. I'll see if I can walk you through getting to the screen you need, but I'm also including a screencap.

Okay, go to the 8/11/03 traffic case and click "Details" (not summary). Then when the case opens up go down to the second "tab" looking thing that says "Charge Details" and then over on the right of that area click "Detail" and the following pop-up window should come up. (I've circled the important part on this one.)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3469&stc=1&d=1240509405

AZlawyer
04-23-2009, 02:03 PM
Yes, you are right. Good point, JWG. He would need to do his best to track down any ZGs and check them out, especially this one.

Are you sure that they don't have to hand over all evidence they will use against her? I'm pretty sure they are bound by law to hand over everything they have in a reasonable amount of time. So far they've pretty much been handing over everything but what could potentially be the most important, blaming it all on the slow pace of the outside forces they don't have control over. By now they surely have everything tested from July and probably the December tests too but each time JB has to beg the judge to make them hand it over.

Yes, without getting into all the details, this is a "full disclosure" case. SA cannot hide inculpatory (damning ;) ) evidence.

ETA: So I don't think they have a "ZFG" fake ID.

AZlawyer
04-23-2009, 02:05 PM
Do we have reports from the original officers who responded to the 911 calls? Do they include any description of taking an item from KC's wallet or any list of items taken from the house? It seems like we would have seen those reports long ago....

Valhall
04-23-2009, 02:11 PM
Do we have reports from the original officers who responded to the 911 calls? Do they include any description of taking an item from KC's wallet or any list of items taken from the house? It seems like we would have seen those reports long ago....

Go back and read Lee's interview with OCSO. When he starts talking about the woman detective snatching the ID out of the wallet, the investigator conducting the interview (think it was Yuri) appeared to HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT. Go back and read it and see if you don't feel like he had just been blind-sided by the info.

OFFICER'S NAME CONDUCTING INTERVIEW WAS ERIC EDWARDS

KenoshaKid
04-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Yes, without getting into all the details, this is a "full disclosure" case. SA cannot hide inculpatory (damning ;) ) evidence.

ETA: So I don't think they have a "ZFG" fake ID.

Which means we've seen all the good stuff already???:waitasec:

ZubenElSchemali
04-23-2009, 04:20 PM
Go back and read Lee's interview with OCSO. When he starts talking about the woman detective snatching the ID out of the wallet, the investigator conducting the interview (think it was Yuri) appeared to HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT. Go back and read it and see if you don't feel like he had just been blind-sided by the info.

OFFICER'S NAME CONDUCTING INTERVIEW WAS ERIC EDWARDS

I have been watching for the longest time for the report from this female officer. I see that on p 1444 of the docs Lee mentions one of the first responding officers, implying there was more than one but all I've been able to find is the report of Ryan Eberlin approved by Tonya Mwale, the same one that approved Cain's gas can theft report. Is the approving officer someone from the office or that is a witness and partner? If the latter I can find no report by her anywhere or any other female from that first day. On that page he says "she was still there". (when he returned from Tony's with her purse) "She was in the living room with my mother and father." He's color blind so didn't know what color her uniform was but said she was an officer, not a detective. She is the one that snatched something up. This is in the interview with Edwards and Erickson.

Thank you AZLawyer, for that confirmation.

AZlawyer
04-23-2009, 04:47 PM
Which means we've seen all the good stuff already???:waitasec:

There would be some things we don't have. For example: FBI forensic testing results that haven't been sent to LE yet, raw notes of LE that haven't been converted into report format, things that HAVE been received by LE but not yet sent off to the SA, things that have been received by the SA but are still sitting on someone's desk, being digested, etc., and haven't been given to the person in charge of disclosures, things that have been given to the person in charge of disclosures but he/she just hasn't gotten around to disclosing yet, things that are clearly disclosable but no one is really planning to use as evidence and doesn't seem too relevant anyway so they don't really go out of their way to get it disclosed unless/until JB throws a tantrum, etc.

Sorry for the run-on sentence. ;)

rcvela001
04-23-2009, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE=Valhall;3640826]

It's possible one of her LE lovers assisted her in getting that ID. I imagine that they would not come forward as it would jeopardize their job.

Didn't her one her previous lovers quit law enforcement right about the same time Caylee went missing and the other was fired?

Valhall
04-23-2009, 05:03 PM
There would be some things we don't have. For example: FBI forensic testing results that haven't been sent to LE yet, raw notes of LE that haven't been converted into report format, things that HAVE been received by LE but not yet sent off to the SA, things that have been received by the SA but are still sitting on someone's desk, being digested, etc., and haven't been given to the person in charge of disclosures, things that have been given to the person in charge of disclosures but he/she just hasn't gotten around to disclosing yet, things that are clearly disclosable but no one is really planning to use as evidence and doesn't seem too relevant anyway so they don't really go out of their way to get it disclosed unless/until JB throws a tantrum, etc.

Sorry for the run-on sentence. ;)


BUT, don't they have the ability to refuse to disclose if disclosing could hamper an active investigation for which the particular piece of evidence is critical? (i.e. if they were still tracking down, for instance, WHEN KC started being ZG22 (this is hypothetical, of course), would they be required to disclose ANY evidence concerning that if they felt it could result in closing doors for them?

nyvictoria
04-23-2009, 05:12 PM
BUT, don't they have the ability to refuse to disclose if disclosing could hamper an active investigation for which the particular piece of evidence is critical? (i.e. if they were still tracking down, for instance, WHEN KC started being ZG22 (this is hypothetical, of course), would they be required to disclose ANY evidence concerning that if they felt it could result in closing doors for them?


Again, let me say you have done an amazing job of putting together the "Casey = ZG22" story! You've presented a well thought out theory and I, for one, can completely see Casey having this other identity.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe they do not have to disclose ANYTHING that is part of an ongoing investigation. So, if they are still looking into if/when/how Casey took on this identity, they will not disclose any of the related materials.

AZlawyer
04-23-2009, 05:29 PM
Again, let me say you have done an amazing job of putting together the "Casey = ZG22" story! You've presented a well thought out theory and I, for one, can completely see Casey having this other identity.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe they do not have to disclose ANYTHING that is part of an ongoing investigation. So, if they are still looking into if/when/how Casey took on this identity, they will not disclose any of the related materials.

The "active investigation" exception does not apply to items that fall within the required disclosure categories in a criminal case. (Fla. Statute s 119.011(3)(c)(5)) There are also multiple court opinions that discuss this aspect of the law--see the Florida Government-in-the-Sunshine Manual, section 1.d. on this page: http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

Now, it's possible that the SA could request a court order allowing them to delay certain disclosures pending investigation (for example, if LE believed the Anthony family could interfere with the evidence if they were alerted to the issue)...but we know no such motion has been filed, and there are (as far as I know) no mysterious sealed motions or orders on the docket.

In practice, there are also plenty of delays in disclosure for other reasons like the ones I listed above (not getting around to it, etc). Or the SA might just hold on to something interesting for a couple of months to see what else they could find out before disclosing it, as long as they didn't think they were risking such late disclosure that the evidence would be disallowed at trial. In AZ, for example, we are required to disclose documents in civil cases "in no event later than 30 days" from receipt. But no one is really keeping track and no one kicks up a fuss if you disclose something 4 months after you received it but still 9 months before trial....

ZubenElSchemali
04-23-2009, 05:36 PM
I think there may be a misunderstanding as to how to read the OC clerk's data. First, the only way I can pull any case up is to first click on summary at the right, then details above. In the charge detail it has 3 parts. The middle section is the prosecutorial phase with the initial phase coming first and the court phase coming last. Now, it shows fully satisfied but the result date now shows 9/11/08 even though it was satisfied and closed in 2003. This is the date the fraud charges were filed and I have a feeling Florida has a law that any type of money type charges including child support arrears puts a hold and possible suspension on the drivers liciense. Perhaps that is why the added more current date. I don't see anything anywhere within this record that shows this ticket is in the prosecutorial phase any longer.

Here are the charge details:
Phase: Initial
Defendant: CASEY M ANTHONY Count #: 001
Offense Date: 8/4/2003 Citation #: 4278CSE
Complaint Date: Information Date:
Statute: 316.646(1)-A - TR- INSURANCE REQUIRED PROOF OF PIP AND PDL
General Offense Category:
Charge Level: Charge Degree:
Phase: Prosecutorial
Defendant: CASEY M ANTHONY Count #: 001
Offense Date: 8/4/2003 Citation #: 4278CSE
Complaint Date: Information Date:
Statute:
General Offense Category:
Charge Level: Charge Degree:
Result: Result Date: 9/11/2008
Phase: Court
Defendant: CASEY M ANTHONY Count #: 001
Offense Date: 8/4/2003 Citation #: 4278CSE
Complaint Date: Information Date:
Statute: 316.646(1)-A - TR- INSURANCE REQUIRED PROOF OF PIP AND PDL
General Offense Category:
Charge Level: Charge Degree:
Result: PRODUCED VALID ITEM AND PAY DISM FEE Result Date: 8/12/2003
Trial Type: TEMPORARY TRAFFIC Final Plea: NO PLEA ENTERED

Here are the case actions:
Docket Date Defendant Docket Entry
8/4/2003 A PAYABLE INFRACTION FILED
8/12/2003 A $5.00 DISMISSAL FEE POSTED AS A RECEIVABLE TO54 5.00
8/12/2003 A CASE SATISFIED 0000 UNKNOWN/NOT PROVIDED DT IMPOS: 08/12/2003 COMM CTL: PENALTY: 0.00
8/12/2003 A SHOWED VALID ITEM/PD FEE AND DISMISSED

nyvictoria
04-23-2009, 05:40 PM
The "active investigation" exception does not apply to items that fall within the required disclosure categories in a criminal case. (Fla. Statute s 119.011(3)(c)(5)) There are also multiple court opinions that discuss this aspect of the law--see the Florida Government-in-the-Sunshine Manual, section 1.d. on this page: http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

Now, it's possible that the SA could request a court order allowing them to delay certain disclosures pending investigation (for example, if LE believed the Anthony family could interfere with the evidence if they were alerted to the issue)...but we know no such motion has been filed, and there are (as far as I know) no mysterious sealed motions or orders on the docket.

In practice, there are also plenty of delays in disclosure for other reasons like the ones I listed above (not getting around to it, etc). Or the SA might just hold on to something interesting for a couple of months to see what else they could find out before disclosing it, as long as they didn't think they were risking such late disclosure that the evidence would be disallowed at trial. In AZ, for example, we are required to disclose documents in civil cases "in no event later than 30 days" from receipt. But no one is really keeping track and no one kicks up a fuss if you disclose something 4 months after you received it but still 9 months before trial....

Thanks for clarifying! There's a lot of good information there. I'm still not sure I understand they why and how if it all but I doubt the State would do anything to jeopardize their case.

cecybeans
04-23-2009, 05:42 PM
The laptop internet history seems to be pretty complete for the week leading up to July 15. There are no URLs or cookies for any government or official website in that history, leading me to believe no online payment was made.

Could it be possible that another computer was used? LA's? AD's? UCF library?

MAMABEAR
04-23-2009, 05:44 PM
Yes, without getting into all the details, this is a "full disclosure" case. SA cannot hide inculpatory (damning ;) ) evidence.

ETA: So I don't think they have a "ZFG" fake ID.

But maybe LE/FBI has this info and haven't turned it over to SA?

Valhall
04-23-2009, 06:03 PM
Here are the case actions:
Docket Date Defendant Docket Entry
8/4/2003 A PAYABLE INFRACTION FILED
8/12/2003 A $5.00 DISMISSAL FEE POSTED AS A RECEIVABLE TO54 5.00
8/12/2003 A CASE SATISFIED 0000 UNKNOWN/NOT PROVIDED DT IMPOS: 08/12/2003 COMM CTL: PENALTY: 0.00
8/12/2003 A SHOWED VALID ITEM/PD FEE AND DISMISSED

This would be point, actually. And, no, I'm not misinterpreting what I'm reading. The case was never prosecutorial in 2003. It was "initial" and then "court" where she showed her insurance and driver's license at the court and paid a small fee and it was completely dismissed (as per Florida statute).

A dismissed and completely closed 2003 traffic case was made "prosecutorial" in September 2008. That would be the point....a rather bizarre one at that.

ZubenElSchemali
04-23-2009, 06:05 PM
In looking again at ZGs case I see that a result date of 8/12 was entered in the prosecutorial phase section, this date being in between her case being assigned to collections and defaulting. I think her drivers license was suspended because of this defaluting. If she was an illegal it would be pretty hard to get and show valid ID if the SS is required. Did I read something about SS card being required more recently than she would have gotten her license issued last?

Valhall
This would be point, actually. And, no, I'm not misinterpreting what I'm reading. The case was never prosecutorial in 2003. It was "initial" and then "court" where she showed her insurance and driver's license at the court and paid a small fee and it was completely dismissed (as per Florida statute).

A dismissed and completely closed 2003 traffic case was made "prosecutorial" in September 2008. That would be the point....a rather bizarre one at that.
I could be the one misunderstanding but it clearly says that citation was satisfied and the date entered was the day they charged her for the check fraud. I'll bet they put a hold on the liciense of any Casey M Anthony in the system. Here more recent traffic violation under her name without the M doesn't have this section so the system went through and marked anything connected to her drivers license with the exact matching name. They would do that to flag the liciense, I believe, so they can collect the funds.

JWG
04-23-2009, 06:23 PM
This would be point, actually. And, no, I'm not misinterpreting what I'm reading. The case was never prosecutorial in 2003. It was "initial" and then "court" where she showed her insurance and driver's license at the court and paid a small fee and it was completely dismissed (as per Florida statute).

A dismissed and completely closed 2003 traffic case was made "prosecutorial" in September 2008. That would be the point....a rather bizarre one at that.

Now I'm following, and I do see the 9/11/08 date now in the prosecutorial phase of the 2003 citation. :thumb: 9/11/08 is also the date the check forgery, fraudulent use of an ID, and theft of more than $100 entered the prosecutorial phase. See case numbers 08-CF-0013520-O and 08-CF-0013521-O.

pregodego2
04-23-2009, 07:11 PM
I've always felt suspicious of the June 9th date - it's the original date said caylee went missing and then coincidently a ZG has her office broken into.... just odd.

also, has anyone paid close attention to the description casey gave of the supposed ZG? CA went off about this at the trial with the ZG suing casey. She said short dark hair, 5'something (can't remember), 120 pounds and on a scale of 1-10 she was a 10. UMMM besides for me not agreeing that casey is a 10, it sounds an awful lot like casey was describing herself. She certainly would rate herself a 10. Casey just basically described what she sees in the mirror. And it would add up to the decription the police would have of this ZG who has the traffic violations because it was casey who they really stopped.

Do we have access to the decription of the car casey.. ahem sorry, "ZG" was driving when she got stopped?

Valhall
04-23-2009, 07:14 PM
I'll bet they put a hold on the liciense of any Casey M Anthony in the system. Here more recent traffic violation under her name without the M doesn't have this section so the system went through and marked anything connected to her drivers license with the exact matching name. They would do that to flag the liciense, I believe, so they can collect the funds.

Yep, we're in agreement now on the interpretation of the record. The case was satisfied (actually dismissed) and then changed in September. Now, as to the reason, I definitely agree it has SOMETHING to do with the charges filed on the same date, but I'm not sure it is because they were flagging the license.

My question is - for this particular traffic case - can it be changed to the status of "prosecutorial" indefinitely without charges filed on something different? The reason I ask this is because if, during the investigation they found that at the time of this citation KC had two driver's license, they can bring charges against her for that. Can they trip this to prosecutorial and just leave it for some time and then file a charge of holding two driver's licenses?

Valhall
04-23-2009, 07:17 PM
I've always felt suspicious of the June 9th date - it's the original date said caylee went missing and then coincidently a ZG has her office broken into.... just odd.

also, has anyone paid close attention to the description casey gave of the supposed ZG? CA went off about this at the trial with the ZG suing casey. She said short dark hair, 5'something (can't remember), 120 pounds and on a scale of 1-10 she was a 10. UMMM besides for me not agreeing that casey is a 10, it sounds an awful lot like casey was describing herself. She certainly would rate herself a 10. Casey just basically described what she sees in the mirror. And it would add up to the decription the police would have of this ZG who has the traffic violations because it was casey who they really stopped.

Well, and CA's description doesn't match KC's written statement on July 15th. That said 5'7", 140 lbs, black/Puerto Rican mix.



Do we have access to the decription of the car casey.. ahem sorry, "ZG" was driving when she got stopped?

Yeah, actually we have two. :D We have the description of the car pulled over (1995 green truck) and the description of the car that goes with the tag that was on the car that was pulled over (1997 red SUV).

sadyjade
04-23-2009, 07:26 PM
Haven't we heard of a green truck in other records in this case? I'm wanting to say that is a description a neighbor(of the A's) gave of a vehicle seen at their home? I'm going a hunting be back in a minute.

ZubenElSchemali
04-23-2009, 07:27 PM
Yep, we're in agreement now on the interpretation of the record. The case was satisfied (actually dismissed) and then changed in September. Now, as to the reason, I definitely agree it has SOMETHING to do with the charges filed on the same date, but I'm not sure it is because they were flagging the license.

My question is - for this particular traffic case - can it be changed to the status of "prosecutorial" indefinitely without charges filed on something different? The reason I ask this is because if, during the investigation they found that at the time of this citation KC had two driver's license, they can bring charges against her for that. Can they trip this to prosecutorial and just leave it for some time and then file a charge of holding two driver's licenses?

This is a good question for AZlawyer. I believe once the fraud charges are tried and restitution made, fines, etc, the flag would be removed, if that is infact, what this is. The reason I'm thinking this is what is going on here is I read in Michigan if there are arearages or state imposed fines not paid when they should be the licience is suspended until it is paid. Now, they wouldn't suspend her licience until she had been found guilty and got to the point she defaulted on the fines, etc. This is what has happened to ZG. She defaulted and the license was suspended.

AZlawyer
04-23-2009, 07:33 PM
This is a good question for AZlawyer. I believe once the fraud charges are tried and restitution made, fines, etc, the flag would be removed, if that is infact, what this is. The reason I'm thinking this is what is going on here is I read in Michigan if there are arearages or state imposed fines not paid when they should be the licience is suspended until it is paid. Now, they wouldn't suspend her licience until she had been found guilty and got to the point she defaulted on the fines, etc. This is what has happened to ZG. She defaulted and the license was suspended.

Sorry--I'm still trying to figure this one out myself. But your confidence is appreciated. :)

JWG
04-23-2009, 07:34 PM
Back in early February DotsEyes (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3254554&postcount=792) was working on profiles of the various Zenaida's in this case, both real and imagined. This work was being done on the Zani Timeline thread. On that same thread I followed her lead and fleshed out a profile of KC's ZFG. I am cross-posting it here as that particular description seems relevent to the discussion.

*** Begin cross-post ***

Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez (KC's fictional nannie's name)

Vitals: (all taken from first interview unless otherwise noted)


25 Years old
5' 7" (5'6" to 5'7" - email from Lee)
140 lbs
Dark brown curly hair
Brown eyes
Mixed race: Black and Puerto Rican
Tan complexion (email from Lee)
No visible tatoos in 2-piece bathing suit (email from Lee)
Birthday in September


Family:


Mother: Gloria Gonzalez, 55 (email from Lee)
Step-dad: Victor Fernandez (email from Lee)
No children (interview #2)
Has brother and sister (1st interview)
Sister is Samantha, 1-2 years older, not sure if last name is different (email from Lee)

Roommates:


Raquel Farrell - hostess at Friday's (email from Lee)
Jennifer Rosa - works for ABC Distribution catalog in Orlando (email from Lee)

Residence:
From interview #1:


Moved to FL from New York. Tony was talking about moving to NY. Sawgrass ZG drives a car with NY plates.

Lived at apartment off Bumby and Robinson until about middle of 2007. The location turns out to be an "old folk's home" across the street from RM's. It is interesting to note that RM met KC in June 2007 and moved to his apartment in Orlando in Aug. 2007...the "middle of 2007."
From middle of 2007 to some time in the first six months of 2008 she lived at her mom's house "off Michigan just over Conway". This is near the BoA she passed Amy's check at. Also kinda near a real ZG. But most interesting, there is a person with the mother's name that in fact lives "off Michigan just over Conway".
Last lived at Sawgrass on Conway Rd., apartment #210 - moved there "just recently this year". The apartment had been vacant for several months and happened to be above the model apartment shown to prospective tenants. Sawgrass ZG looked at model apartment 6/17.


From interview #2 (after fessing up that she'd been lying):

Lived at Alafaya Club Apartments when KC first met her. Says a good friend from high school still lives there (male). These apartments are near JG and TR, - about half way in between.
More recently she was renting a house in Andover Lakes, off Dean and Curry Ford. This is fairly close to Lake Vaj, possibly area where she was at one point going to get a home or condo?

Babysitting: (from 1st interview unless otherwise noted)


Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
Has been watching Caylee for 1 1/2 to 2 years (statement)
Started watching Caylee about end of April 2006 at Jeff Hopkins and within the past 1 1/2 years at ZFG apartment. This coincides with Rev. Grund's statement regarding when he first heard of ZG.
Has known her for six years (IM's with Iassan).
Watched Jeff Hopkin's fictional son Zachary. Jeff introduced KC to ZFG. (interview #2)
The fictional Juliette Lewis's equally fictional daughter played with Caylee at ZFG's apartment. ZFG may have watched Lewis's child as well. (IM's between KC and l7tone)

Other:


Seasonal employee at Universal (interview #2)
Went to University of Florida (interview #2)
Drives 2008 silver Ford Focus purchased by step-dad (email from Lee)
Apparantly has some money, based on witness interviews relating what KC said to them.

jandkmom
04-23-2009, 07:41 PM
I've always felt suspicious of the June 9th date - it's the original date said caylee went missing and then coincidently a ZG has her office broken into.... just odd.

also, has anyone paid close attention to the description casey gave of the supposed ZG? CA went off about this at the trial with the ZG suing casey. She said short dark hair, 5'something (can't remember), 120 pounds and on a scale of 1-10 she was a 10. UMMM besides for me not agreeing that casey is a 10, it sounds an awful lot like casey was describing herself. She certainly would rate herself a 10. Casey just basically described what she sees in the mirror. And it would add up to the decription the police would have of this ZG who has the traffic violations because it was casey who they really stopped.

Do we have access to the decription of the car casey.. ahem sorry, "ZG" was driving when she got stopped?


Have you seen the movie "Liar, Liar" with Jim Carrey. He beats himself up in the bathroom, and then when the judge asks him to describe the person that did it to him, he gives the judge a description of himself.

JBean
04-23-2009, 07:42 PM
This is a good question for AZlawyer. I believe once the fraud charges are tried and restitution made, fines, etc, the flag would be removed, if that is infact, what this is. The reason I'm thinking this is what is going on here is I read in Michigan if there are arearages or state imposed fines not paid when they should be the licience is suspended until it is paid. Now, they wouldn't suspend her licience until she had been found guilty and got to the point she defaulted on the fines, etc. This is what has happened to ZG. She defaulted and the license was suspended.
FWIW and this may be of no consequence, but I'll throw it in the heap o' info anyway. We do know for fact that as of Jan 17, 2009 her license was VALID with no restrictions.
As of today her license expired on her birthday 3-19-2009

Driver License Check




As of Jan 17, 2009, at 02:02 PM, driver license number A535XXXXX is VALID. This license is a Class E (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlclass.html). Restrictions are (NONE ON RECORD) (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlclass.html#rest). Endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD) (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlclass.html#endorse). Motorcycle endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD).
Expiration Date is Mar 19, 2009. You may purchase a driver history (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlfaqans.html#2) via mail or electronically.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78216

cecybeans
04-23-2009, 08:06 PM
I know I read here about the journalist ZG at UCF - physical description, type of car, even # of children, IIRC.

As circumspectly as possible, does anyone remember if any of that ZG's details are similar to either ZG22, or KC's physical description of the bogus Zanny? Could any similarities also point to the fact that KC was more than aware of this ZG?

ZubenElSchemali
04-23-2009, 08:18 PM
FWIW and this may be of no consequence, but I'll throw it in the heap o' info anyway. We do know for fact that as of Jan 17, 2009 her license was VALID with no restrictions.
As of today her license expired on her birthday 3-19-2009

Driver License Check




As of Jan 17, 2009, at 02:02 PM, driver license number A535XXXXX is VALID. This license is a Class E (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlclass.html). Restrictions are (NONE ON RECORD) (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlclass.html#rest). Endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD) (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlclass.html#endorse). Motorcycle endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD).
Expiration Date is Mar 19, 2009. You may purchase a driver history (http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/ddl/dlfaqans.html#2) via mail or electronically.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78216

I wouldn't expect there to be any kind of restriction or suspension at this stage because the fraud charge hasn't even gone to trial. I think this may be a standard procedure with pending financial cases. Otherwise why isn't the more recent ticket without her middle initial now the same? They can't prosecute a closed case that has been satisfied. If she had a fake ID they could bring a new charge to add to her bundle, but not prosecute this one.

Valhall
04-23-2009, 08:47 PM
I wouldn't expect there to be any kind of restriction or suspension at this stage because the fraud charge hasn't even gone to trial. I think this may be a standard procedure with pending financial cases. Otherwise why isn't the more recent ticket without her middle initial now the same? They can't prosecute a closed case that has been satisfied. If she had a fake ID they could bring a new charge to add to her bundle, but not prosecute this one.

The only difference between the other traffic charge and this traffic charge is that this one involved having to show a driver's license in order to get it dismissed, while the other had to do with showing that the equipment (probably seat belt) had been fixed.

pregodego2
04-24-2009, 12:41 AM
Haven't we heard of a green truck in other records in this case? I'm wanting to say that is a description a neighbor(of the A's) gave of a vehicle seen at their home? I'm going a hunting be back in a minute.

yes, the green truck was definitely seen at the A's house. Can't remember if it was amy's, tony's, annie's.... but it was someone's!

blubuni99
04-24-2009, 01:46 AM
I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not (I almost posted it in another thread - I'm just not sure exactly where to post this) but I'm fairly new to the whole evidence part of this case and I was just going through the first doc dump. I'm reading all the lies and stuff - I was wondering, did KC just GUESS about a Zeniada Gonzalez at the Sawgrass Apt and it was just a coincidence that a women by that name applied to live there or is there something I missed?

EchointheDark
04-24-2009, 05:58 AM
I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not (I almost posted it in another thread - I'm just not sure exactly where to post this) but I'm fairly new to the whole evidence part of this case and I was just going through the first doc dump. I'm reading all the lies and stuff - I was wondering, did KC just GUESS about a Zeniada Gonzalez at the Sawgrass Apt and it was just a coincidence that a women by that name applied to live there or is there something I missed?

Hi and welcome-- this has been a huge topic of speculation. There's miles of thread(ing... or whatever these little bits of convo are called). That is one of the many mysteries of this case. It's how this specific ZG got hauled into this mess. It's the key fact that the civil suit hinges on. Between the 2 stories of how/where Caylee was left/taken (Sawgrass/JBP) this is on KC's sworn statement to LE. We don't know, is the short answer, how KC's twisted little pea-brain got hold of this ZG.

KenoshaKid
04-24-2009, 08:53 AM
Mother: Gloria Gonzalez, 55 (email from Lee)
Step-dad: Victor Fernandez (email from Lee)


So, given this, wouldn't her name be Zenaida Gonzalez Fernandez?
Every Latina I have ever known has her mother's maiden name as the MIDDLE name, not the last name.

I've never seen a hyphenated Hispanic surname, unless its in a younger person who has married and hyphenated the two names.

I guess Gonzalez could be Gloria's husband's name (Z's stepfather) and they hyphenated Z's last name, but really, has anyone EVER seen that? It would require a legal name change. I work at a University and see a lot of last names and this is a first for me.

steadychick
04-24-2009, 09:31 AM
I seem to remember something being said quite a while back that ZG (the one who has filed the lawsuit) lost her driver's license. Anyone else with a better memory than mine remember that? If this is true, perhaps KC found it -- maybe at the tatoo parlor?????

steadychick
04-24-2009, 09:39 AM
And didn't the green truck belong to someone at the tatoo parlor????

~ Amy ~
04-24-2009, 09:39 AM
I seem to remember that she lost her DL back in Feb 08. I just can't find where I read that at.

princess
04-24-2009, 09:43 AM
So, given this, wouldn't her name be Zenaida Gonzalez Fernandez?
Every Latina I have ever known has her mother's maiden name as the MIDDLE name, not the last name.

I've never seen a hyphenated Hispanic surname, unless its in a younger person who has married and hyphenated the two names.

I guess Gonzalez could be Gloria's husband's name (Z's stepfather) and they hyphenated Z's last name, but really, has anyone EVER seen that? It would require a legal name change. I work at a University and see a lot of last names and this is a first for me.

The mothers last name is always used last, my husband & his relatives have a first & middle name, followed by the fathers last name and then the mothers last name.


When we got married the clerk at the courthouse had to remind him not to sign his mothers last name, to just use his "first" last name, his fathers.

http://perez.cs.vt.edu/twolastnames (http://perez.cs.vt.edu/twolastnames)
One of the most misunderstood characteristics of Hispanic culture is the use of our last names. In the last 20 years, more and more Hispanics are being mentioned in the mainstream of American society. Names like Gabriel García Marquez and Arancha Sanchez Vicario are two names that get lots of press. Their last names, two in each case, are every now and then confused.

BondJamesBond
04-24-2009, 10:02 AM
Babysitting: (from 1st interview unless otherwise noted)


Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
Has been watching Caylee for 1 1/2 to 2 years (statement)
Started watching Caylee about end of April 2006 at Jeff Hopkins and within the past 1 1/2 years at ZFG apartment. This coincides with Rev. Grund's statement regarding when he first heard of ZG.
Has known her for six years (IM's with Iassan).



*snipped*

Terrific post, JWG (as usual) :clap:

FWIW, RE: Babysitting

IIRC, Casey also indicated in her IM's w/ Tony that ZG watched Juliette's daughter :rolleyes: too.

Dunno if you wanted to consider adding in ZG watching Jeff's son Zachary :rolleyes: also.

JWG
04-24-2009, 11:13 AM
*snipped*

Terrific post, JWG (as usual) :clap:

FWIW, RE: Babysitting

IIRC, Casey also indicated in her IM's w/ Tony that ZG watched Juliette's daughter :rolleyes: too.

Dunno if you wanted to consider adding in ZG watching Jeff's son Zachary :rolleyes: also.

Thanks Bond, especially for pointing out the Juliette Lewis connection from the IM's. :thumb:

I added both to the description of KC's alternate universe. :rolleyes:

blubuni99
04-24-2009, 01:12 PM
Also has this been addressed or not: in the early police reports, when they talk to the manager of the Sawgrass Apts and they showed 'Harry G.' a series of pictures of "Zeniada" and he picked one. They later told him that all the pictures were of the same person but didn't tell him who the person was. Do WE know who the person is? Was that ever revealed to us?

cecybeans
04-24-2009, 01:36 PM
Also has this been addressed or not: in the early police reports, when they talk to the manager of the Sawgrass Apts and they showed 'Harry G.' a series of pictures of "Zeniada" and he picked one. They later told him that all the pictures were of the same person but didn't tell him who the person was. Do WE know who the person is? Was that ever revealed to us?

No, but I believe that earlier in this thread is discussion and consensus that it is unlikely that the 12 pictures (purportedly of the same person) supposedly shown to HG could have been anyone other than KC because LE did not or could not have had photos of the actual ZG.

blubuni99
04-24-2009, 01:57 PM
No, but I believe that earlier in this thread is discussion and consensus that it is unlikely that the 12 pictures (purportedly of the same person) supposedly shown to HG could have been anyone other than KC because LE did not or could not have had photos of the actual ZG.


I know I'm a little behind in my evidence... but I was wondering if it was KC he actually identified. Thanks!

cecybeans
04-24-2009, 08:33 PM
I know I'm a little behind in my evidence... but I was wondering if it was KC he actually identified. Thanks!

LMAO - I am ALWAYS behind! I don't think it's humanly possible to be caught up but at least we have the weekend before the next doc dump and the ride starts all over again!

Valhall
05-03-2009, 09:39 AM
I've been doing some research on the zenaida myspace to be sure I was interpreting dates correctly. If you go to the main profile you see that the last login date is 10/14/08 (the last day KC was free and spent her day at JB's office).

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

And if you go the blog page for this myspace you can see it lists last update and signup date both as 6/16/08 (the day KC left the Anthony house for the last time with Caylee).

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=389838213

The reason understanding whether I'm interpreting these dates correctly is important to me is that if this myspace was set up with the name "zenaida" and with the Dora the Dancing doll pic on the 16th of June, and if it was set up by KC prior to something happening to Caylee, it is evidence of premeditation of at least planning to tell a "zenaida" story, and at most of a planned murder. But if the myspace was set up (even by KC) on the 16th as another name and then later changed to "zenaida", it could be interpreted differently (i.e. KC trying to divert LE attention toward a "Miami zenaida" - but not necessarily some act reflecting premeditation).

So I contacted myspace (both by email and phone) and asked the following question:


Is the "last updated" date that shows when you go to the blog page of a member's myspace the last time ANYTHING was changed on the whole myspace site for that member?

Here's an example:

When I'm on the blog area of a member's myspace and it lists the following:
Last Update: 9/10/08
Signup Date: 9/10/08

And on the main page of that member's myspace it says:
Last login: 12/5/08

Does that mean that no pictures, blog entries, name changes, etc. have occurred since that myspace account was created on 9/10/08? Is the "Last Update" date, the date ANYTHING related to that myspace was changed?

The answer I got was...


Thank you for contacting us to get your MySpace question answered. The answer to your question is yes.

Okay, then I found this discussion where some myspace users were tracking what activity actually affects the "last update" field.

http://she-geeks.com/forum/myspace-discussionhelp/myspace-last-update/?wap2

And I worked through them myself because I have a myspace that I really never have done anything with as far as blogging, customizing, etc., so I thought it would be a good "test ground". I have been able to confirm everything these posters state here as far as what updates this field and what doesn't.

So basically what I confirmed is:

that a "name change" (i.e. from something to "zenaida") would change the last update field.

that changing the picture on the profile would change the last update field.

that creating a blog entry will change the last update field.

that deleting a blog entry will NOT change the last update field.

that deleting a picture in the album will NOT change the last update field (as long as it is not the picture selected for the profile, of course).

and that deleting a blog entry will also make the blog page go back to read "You have not posted yet. Try it out, if you don't like it, you can delete whatever you post." as if there never was a blog entry there.

So what we can assume with a great deal of confidence (I'm not going to say 100% confidence) is that:

This myspace was set up on 6/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
It was set up on 6/16/08 with the Dora the Dancing Doll pic as the profile pic.
And if there were any entries in the blog, they would have had to have been made on 6/16/08 (but could have been deleted any time afterward and us not know it.)

sunflowerchick
05-03-2009, 09:52 AM
...so here's the thing. I really think this may be the "smoking gun" that the prosecution has. I mean if they can prove that KC really is ZFG through signatures, documents, traffic tickets and who knows what else, then KC has confessed!

Valhall
05-03-2009, 09:57 AM
I agree, sunflower. Even if there is NO connection to the ZG22 who got the ticket, if this myspace was set up by KC prior to her leaving that house, it's the one piece of "circumstantial evidence" that points to premeditation. While all the forensics we've seen to date point to evidence of Caylee's DEATH while in the care of KC, this would point to Caylee's pre-planned MURDER in the care of KC.

I'll go further still...if this myspace was set up on the 16th within 2 hours of KC leaving the Anthony home (i.e. at a library, internet cafe, Lee's house, TL's apartment), it's going to be damning evidence of premeditation.

If it is found that it was set up late (i.e. say, after 7 p.m.) that day, then it can be seen as at least an immediate attempt to create a cover story, but not necessarily premeditation.

CBTampa
05-03-2009, 10:34 AM
I agree, sunflower. Even if there is NO connection to the ZG22 who got the ticket, if this myspace was set up by KC prior to her leaving that house, it's the one piece of "circumstantial evidence" that points to premeditation. While all the forensics we've seen to date point to evidence of Caylee's DEATH while in the care of KC, this would point to Caylee's pre-planned MURDER in the care of KC.

I'll go further still...if this myspace was set up on the 16th within 2 hours of KC leaving the Anthony home (i.e. at a library, internet cafe, Lee's house, TL's apartment), it's going to be damning evidence of premeditation.

If it is found that it was set up late (i.e. say, after 7 p.m.) that day, then it can be seen as at least an immediate attempt to create a cover story, but not necessarily premeditation.

Would you also be able to tract where and what computer this was set up on?

Valhall
05-03-2009, 10:39 AM
I cannot, no. I'm just hoping (and I assume) that LE has already requested all IP and time of creation data from myspace via subpoena.

CBTampa
05-03-2009, 10:44 AM
I cannot, no. I'm just hoping (and I assume) that LE has already requested all IP and time of creation data from myspace via subpoena.

I didn't mean you specially. I just wondered if it could be tracked. This maybe the smoking gun. IMO

ZubenElSchemali
05-03-2009, 11:06 AM
I didn't mean you specially. I just wondered if it could be tracked. This maybe the smoking gun. IMO

Yes, with a subpoena, LE can know exactly when it was accessed, created and the address of the computer. The computer forensics would also have some sign of access when this page was created or modified. I don't recall seeing anything extracted from the Anthony computers that would fit but we haven't seen the friend's computer data.

cecybeans
05-03-2009, 11:19 AM
Yes, with a subpoena, LE can know exactly when it was accessed, created and the address of the computer. The computer forensics would also have some sign of access when this page was created or modified. I don't recall seeing anything extracted from the Anthony computers that would fit but we haven't seen the friend's computer data.

She may have been sly enough to have created this on some kind of third party computer, like LA's or a friends, or something more anonymous and multi-user like a public or college library computer.

Regardless - if this took place within 24 hours of Caylee's death - even if it is not prior to - I would think a jury would see that kind of calculated, elaborate coverup as evidence of ability to premeditate.

Also, I know that my daughter uses her phone to update her facebook account. Can myspace be updated using a cellphone as well?

CBTampa
05-03-2009, 11:32 AM
You have to remember that KC doesn't think past ten minutes.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 11:37 AM
She may have been sly enough to have created this on some kind of third party computer, like LA's or a friends, or something more anonymous and multi-user like a public or college library computer.

Regardless - if this took place within 24 hours of Caylee's death - even if it is not prior to - I would think a jury would see that kind of calculated, elaborate coverup as evidence of ability to premeditate.

Also, I know that my daughter uses her phone to update her facebook account. Can myspace be updated using a cellphone as well?

Yes, you do it via a text to 'MYSPC'. But there was no text messages indicating this type of activity on KC's cell phone.

Aquarian,

You mentioned something about no forensics from the desktop showing this type of activity. You are correct as far as what we have seen so far. But we have not been provided an IP activity log for that desktop; only google searches. The forensics on "zenaida" searches would not pick up this myspace because it does not have a URL with "zenaida" in it...only the member number. So the "zenaida" keyword search done on the desktop would miss this activity.

Concerning 3rd party, I think it is highly likely it could have been done some where else (library, internet cafe, etc.). The deal is if it happened in the Orlando area on the 16th for a Zenaida in Miami, (who, by the way, apparently doesn't drive because she has no Florida driver's license), it's going to look pretty suspicious.

I can't invision a way the defense could pull off a believable story that a Zenaida babysitter, who doesn't seem to exist anywhere but in KC's mind, took the time on the same day she was nefariously plotting Caylee's kidnapping and death, to set up a myspace and list her location as Miami and to pick a birthdate of 2/19 - 1 month and 1 year to the day before KC's, and also to pick a Dora the Dancing doll picture for her myspace...and then not update it even though she is logging in all the way up to the day KC goes to the klinker...and then doesn't anymore. The lack of updating from 06/16 to 10/14 will shoot down any theory that "Zanny the Nanny" created this myspace to communicate with KC because any blog entry would have updated the "last update" to later than the creation date.

Although, with the way the Anthony's like to promulgate conspiracy theories, they probably will say she (the evil Zanny the Nanny) did ALL of that to make it look like KC is guilty.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 12:12 PM
I have always believed that KC had/was creating a peep called Zenaida. I can see Zenaida being created as a child---as an imaginary friend. She had a friend/classmate named Zenaida. Neighbor named Zenaida. There were e-nuff Zenaidas floating around and pointing to KC. My Space---ZFG22---I say she was planning on offing the A's and turning into Zenaida and it wouldn't surprise me if Anne knew about it. I sure hope LE/FBI knows about all this stuff fore it's deleted.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 12:15 PM
P.S. Just thought of another reason it would be hard to explain why the imaginary Zanny the Nanny set this myspace up. According to KC Zanny had already broke into her myspace and changed the password to timer55, so if she had direct access to KC's myspace, there would be no reason to create a second myspace because all communication could have taken place within KC's myspace account via drafts saved in the mail section. Zanny could have logged in to KC account, typed a message to her, saved it as a draft and KC could have read it and responded with another draft and all of it would have remained away from the public eye. There never was the need to make such a risky move as to create a myspace page (that's not even set to private) just to pass "instructions" to KC.

chefmom
05-03-2009, 12:35 PM
I've been doing some research on the zenaida myspace to be sure I was interpreting dates correctly. If you go to the main profile you see that the last login date is 10/14/08 (the last day KC was free and spent her day at JB's office).

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

And if you go the blog page for this myspace you can see it lists last update and signup date both as 6/16/08 (the day KC left the Anthony house for the last time with Caylee).

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=389838213

The reason understanding whether I'm interpreting these dates correctly is important to me is that if this myspace was set up with the name "zenaida" and with the Dora the Dancing doll pic on the 16th of June, and if it was set up by KC prior to something happening to Caylee, it is evidence of premeditation of at least planning to tell a "zenaida" story, and at most of a planned murder. But if the myspace was set up (even by KC) on the 16th as another name and then later changed to "zenaida", it could be interpreted differently (i.e. KC trying to divert LE attention toward a "Miami zenaida" - but not necessarily some act reflecting premeditation).

So I contacted myspace (both by email and phone) and asked the following question:



The answer I got was...



Okay, then I found this discussion where some myspace users were tracking what activity actually affects the "last update" field.

http://she-geeks.com/forum/myspace-discussionhelp/myspace-last-update/?wap2

And I worked through them myself because I have a myspace that I really never have done anything with as far as blogging, customizing, etc., so I thought it would be a good "test ground". I have been able to confirm everything these posters state here as far as what updates this field and what doesn't.

So basically what I confirmed is:

that a "name change" (i.e. from something to "zenaida") would change the last update field.

that changing the picture on the profile would change the last update field.

that creating a blog entry will change the last update field.

that deleting a blog entry will NOT change the last update field.

that deleting a picture in the album will NOT change the last update field (as long as it is not the picture selected for the profile, of course).

and that deleting a blog entry will also make the blog page go back to read "You have not posted yet. Try it out, if you don't like it, you can delete whatever you post." as if there never was a blog entry there.

So what we can assume with a great deal of confidence (I'm not going to say 100% confidence) is that:

This myspace was set up on 6/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
It was set up on 6/16/08 with the Dora the Dancing Doll pic as the profile pic.
And if there were any entries in the blog, they would have had to have been made on 6/16/08 (but could have been deleted any time afterward and us not know it.)

Wow, Valhall! I think you are really onto something here! I pray that LE is as smart and persistant as you have been with this idea, because it seems extremely plausible.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 12:38 PM
No...I'm saying this. The PERSON who got the driver's license with the name "Zenaida Gonzalez" dob 01/11/86, address 422 Regal Downs Circle got that driver's license by producing whatever documents were required (however fake those documents were), while not living at that address, and subsequently has not lived anywhere else as best can be determined. Let's be clear on this...I THINK it was KC. But it doesn't matter whether it was or not. The importance of the situation is that A PERSON got a fake id with an address they did not live at with the name "Zenaida Gonzalez", which happens to be very important to this case. They have subsequently fell off the face of the earth concurrent with the same time that KC has been unable to interface with the outside world.

Facts:

Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 did not live at 422 Regal Downs Circle in 2001.
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 does not appear to have lived anywhere else
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 has never had her SSN verified in the Florida DMV database
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 has made it to the age of 23 without making any list of any kind (utility bill, classmates, addresses, etc.)
Someone stating they were "Zenaida Gonzalez" - dob 01/11/86 - got stopped on 05/24/08 and couldn't produce a valid driver's license....they got fingerprinted.
Zenaida Gonzalez - dob 01/11/86 has not reappeared relative to the citation since some time after 8/15/08 <=== last payment date on traffic citation

Refreshed this post.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 12:39 PM
Valhall is one smart cookie.:blowkiss:

Theonly1
05-03-2009, 12:47 PM
Valhall:

"Someone stating they were "Zenaida Gonzalez" - dob 01/11/86 - got stopped on 05/24/08 and couldn't produce a valid driver's license....they got fingerprinted."

Any clue as to where said fingerprint is now?

Valhall
05-03-2009, 12:50 PM
Valhall:

"Someone stating they were "Zenaida Gonzalez" - dob 01/11/86 - got stopped on 05/24/08 and couldn't produce a valid driver's license....they got fingerprinted."

Any clue as to where said fingerprint is now?

I would assume either in the Florida DMV database (if electronic), or in the Orange County Sheriff's department's files. I do not know, but it is definitely somewhere.

nephers
05-03-2009, 12:56 PM
Just curious, has anyone tried to log into ZG22 myspace account using known email address and passwords? I personally wouldn't want to do it because I wouldn't want it tracked back to me if LE is interested in this account.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 01:02 PM
To be clear...KC said Zanny was in her 20's (I believe 25 is what KC told LE). GA and CA have repeated that....that's one of the ways they are trying to say KC never implicated the real Zenaida Gonzalez in the civil suit. Add to this that she drives (per KC) and has been in the state of Florida for anywhere between 4 and 7 years (depending on which of KC's lies you want to believe). That means she has to have driver's license (remember, she was in a wreck in Tampa in June - KC didn't mention anything about Zanny getting in trouble after that because she had no driver's license. Zanny even went and got a new vehicle, which requires insurance and tags, which requires a driver's license.) So, KC says for us to look for a Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez in her 20's.

Taking these names...

Zenaida Gonzalez
Zenaida Fernandez
Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez

There is exactly ONE Zenaida with one of the above last names or combinations thereof in the state of Florida with a birthdate that puts her in the age range of 20-29 and who has/had a Florida driver's license.

That Zenaida Gonzalez was stopped in May of 2008 and has now disappeared since KC got incarcerated. There are NO others in that age range anywhere in the state. I'm just saying that's a big coincidence...a really big one.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Just curious, has anyone tried to log into ZG22 myspace account using known email address and passwords? I personally wouldn't want to do it because I wouldn't want it tracked back to me if LE is interested in this account.

Tell me how to do it---I will. Am old and if they wanna feed me then let them. How do I do it?

Valhall
05-03-2009, 01:06 PM
Don't do it momma!

Serious, if LE has pulled information on that account, and is watching it (which they could be to see if some one tries to destroy evidence if it is connected to KC), you might get in trouble.

Brini
05-03-2009, 01:10 PM
...so here's the thing. I really think this may be the "smoking gun" that the prosecution has. I mean if they can prove that KC really is ZFG through signatures, documents, traffic tickets and who knows what else, then KC has confessed!

If KC was smarter, and if she had long planned the crime, she might have been able to lay a few paper trails, and fake a Zanny.

She faked some emails from her non-existent "boss" (which were traced right back to her). But, she didn't have the sense to call or text herself from a phone, or do anything else to establish that Z the N exists. No documents, no traffic tickets, (for which she would need both a fake drivers license and fake registration, that would match DMV records) nada. The ONLY Zanny that they could even REASONABLY approach and question is the Sawgrass lady.

One of the big smoking guns that the State has is that they have milked KC's computer and phone records dry, and have never found a picture or message. Nor has any other ZFG turned up in any records that would tweak investigation.

This indicates to me that neither does KC think she's Zanny, nor did she have the brains or tecnnical background to fake a Zanny. Nor did she make a reasonable effort to create a Zanny.

So, I think the answer to the question is, no, KC is not Zanny. There still IS no Zanny, and everybody knows it. Even the As know it.

She popped that name and did Net research to try to find someone she could fit into the "Zanny" role. Unsuccessfully.

Don't give the little air-head so much credit, folks. KC doesn't plan; she just reacts. Almost patellar reflex. Her story is whatever comes out of her mouth THAT minute.

Here's what I would do, if I were KC: Before I was arrested, I'd rabbit to some other part of the country, cut and dye my hair, and gain 40 pounds. I'd show up in some tiny town, get a job as a waitress, and tell people I was fleeing an abusive spouse. I'd get some fake ID, using the old dead person birth certificate trick, and keep my head down.

However, that would go against KC's very nature. Her prime directive is attention. She wouldn't be able to remain obscure.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 01:12 PM
Okay, I forwarded my original emails on to Yuri.

Thanks.

Did he ever answer you?

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 01:15 PM
Don't do it momma!

Serious, if LE has pulled information on that account, and is watching it (which they could be to see if some one tries to destroy evidence if it is connected to KC), you might get in trouble.

K! Thanks.:blowkiss:

nephers
05-03-2009, 01:15 PM
Don't do it momma!

Serious, if LE has pulled information on that account, and is watching it (which they could be to see if some one tries to destroy evidence if it is connected to KC), you might get in trouble.

Agreed. I wasn't suggesting that anyone do it, but I was curious if anyone previously tried. If this account is in question then LE possibly has a close eye on it. Think of how many peoples lives have been dragged through the mud, don't become one of these people.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 01:15 PM
Nor has any other ZFG turned up in any records that would tweak investigation.

This indicates to me that neither does KC think she's Zanny, nor did she have the brains or tecnnical background to fake a Zanny. Nor did she make a reasonable effort to create a Zanny.



*cropped to part I'm addressing*

Except there IS a Zenaida Gonzalez who could potentially affect the investigation. And they either can't find her, or they already have her.

kashell
05-03-2009, 01:16 PM
I got chills reading these last few pages of posts.

I live right outside of Wichita, Kansas, and was closely following the BTK arrest. He was "tripped up" by a floppy disc, of all things. Even though they eventually had enough physical evidence to tie him (no pun intended!) to the crimes, including a full confession, his undoing all started with technological ignorance. It sounds as if KC may have been tripped up by the same ignorance, same "I'm smarter than you" bravado, as well as bad driving.
This case just keeps getting more and more involved. At first, I really thought she'd left Caylee in a hot car, didn't watch her in the pool, some kind of accident happened and KC just freaked, covered it up, and decided that since her life was going to change really soon she may as well party it up until her chickens came home to roost. I didn't really put too much importance in the computer searches (could have been anything), or even the lies (just assumed she was trying to scramble to cover the death because Cindy and George would freak and she'd look like a neglectful Mom), but this incredible sleuthing by Valhall blows those theories out of the water.
Wow, just wow.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 01:17 PM
Agreed. I wasn't suggesting that anyone do it, but I was curious if anyone previously tried. If this account is in question then LE possibly has a close eye on it. Think of how many peoples lives have been dragged through the mud, don't become one of these people.

yeah....that and some one told me they already tried it with the email addresses known for KC and with the passwords we all know about and it didn't work.

*can't remember their name*

:waitasec:

Valhall
05-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Did he ever answer you?

No, but I really don't expect they ever would. Even a "thank you" could be misinterpreted. I'm willing to bet they already knew most of what we're discussing here.

nephers
05-03-2009, 01:25 PM
yeah....that and some one told me they already tried it with the email addresses known for KC and with the passwords we all know about and it didn't work.

*can't remember their name*

:waitasec:

Plus it is really easy to set up a fake email She could have easily gotten a quick zg22@yahoo.com (or something similar) to open the myspace with.

One thing that makes me believe that this very well could be KC that set this account up is the birthday. Isn't it a month and a year earlier, to the day of KC's birthday? I am ashamed of this but a few years ago I was dating someone that happened to love internet porn. I was using his computer and saw that he was on a dating site. So I found his profile, and set up a fake account to try to catch him. When I set up this account, I used my birthday but a few years earlier (yeah, I know, I'm not very good at lying). As I said, I'm ashamed of doing this, I chalk it up to immaturity.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 01:31 PM
Plus it is really easy to set up a fake email She could have easily gotten a quick zg22@yahoo.com (or something similar) to open the myspace with.

One thing that makes me believe that this very well could be KC that set this account up is the birthday. Isn't it a month and a year earlier, to the day of KC's birthday? I am ashamed of this but a few years ago I was dating someone that happened to love internet porn. I was using his computer and saw that he was on a dating site. So I found his profile, and set up a fake account to try to catch him. When I set up this account, I used my birthday but a few years earlier (yeah, I know, I'm not very good at lying). As I said, I'm ashamed of doing this, I chalk it up to immaturity.

Yeah, I find it pretty interesting. By the way, changing the birthdate also would change the last update field, so 2/19/85 is the birthdate that the account was set up with on 6/16/08.

reeseeva
05-03-2009, 01:38 PM
yeah....that and some one told me they already tried it with the email addresses known for KC and with the passwords we all know about and it didn't work.

*can't remember their name*

:waitasec:

Valhall, this is great info. Who is Tom A. on the page, who is the only friend? Have you uncovered anything about him? I ask, because when I went to his page, & went back to June of 2008, there were lots of messages left for him, except from June 13th to June 18th, there are none:waitasec: I was specifically looking for June 16th:confused:

nephers
05-03-2009, 01:45 PM
Valhall, this is great info. Who is Tom A. on the page, who is the only friend? Have you uncovered anything about him? I ask, because when I went to his page, & went back to June of 2008, there were lots of messages left for him, except from June 13th to June 18th, there are none:waitasec: I was specifically looking for June 16th:confused:

When you sign up for Myspace, you automatically get a friend request from Tom. He is the creator of Myspace.

chefmom
05-03-2009, 02:03 PM
No, but I really don't expect they ever would. Even a "thank you" could be misinterpreted. I'm willing to bet they already knew most of what we're discussing here.

Yes, I'd be willing to bet that as well. Could be part of the "compelling" evidence they claim, too! It certainly is compelling to me!

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:19 PM
*cropped to part I'm addressing*

Except there IS a Zenaida Gonzalez who could potentially affect the investigation. And they either can't find her, or they already have her.

Well, there is the Sawgrass one, who was investigated and cleared. A couple local others turned up, and were dismissed.

Who is the other?

I think LE said there were three ZGs in FL, at the time. All were eliminated.

Trivia: Zenaida is the name of a Catholic saint, and a bellydancer in San Diego. It means, "belonging to Zeus." There is also a principal ballerina and a jewelry designer.

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:20 PM
Yes, I'd be willing to bet that as well. Could be part of the "compelling" evidence they claim, too! It certainly is compelling to me!

Yep! A veritable mountain!

sua_sponte
05-03-2009, 02:22 PM
Yeah, I find it pretty interesting. By the way, changing the birthdate also would change the last update field, so 2/19/85 is the birthdate that the account was set up with on 6/16/08.

I just wonder why KC would set it up with that birthday to implicate a ZG, but then give a different birthday to the cops. Could it be that she simply forgot? That seems like it would be an important detail to get right if you're trying to frame somebody. Although... this is KC we're talking about. :crazy:

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:23 PM
Plus it is really easy to set up a fake email She could have easily gotten a quick zg22@yahoo.com (or something similar) to open the myspace with.

One thing that makes me believe that this very well could be KC that set this account up is the birthday. Isn't it a month and a year earlier, to the day of KC's birthday? I am ashamed of this but a few years ago I was dating someone that happened to love internet porn. I was using his computer and saw that he was on a dating site. So I found his profile, and set up a fake account to try to catch him. When I set up this account, I used my birthday but a few years earlier (yeah, I know, I'm not very good at lying). As I said, I'm ashamed of doing this, I chalk it up to immaturity.

Only problem is... it's also easy to TRACK a fake email. Right back to the initial computer.

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:28 PM
She may have been sly enough to have created this on some kind of third party computer, like LA's or a friends, or something more anonymous and multi-user like a public or college library computer.

Regardless - if this took place within 24 hours of Caylee's death - even if it is not prior to - I would think a jury would see that kind of calculated, elaborate coverup as evidence of ability to premeditate.

Also, I know that my daughter uses her phone to update her facebook account. Can myspace be updated using a cellphone as well?

Sure! I use mine for that.

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:31 PM
I have always believed that KC had/was creating a peep called Zenaida. I can see Zenaida being created as a child---as an imaginary friend. She had a friend/classmate named Zenaida. Neighbor named Zenaida. There were e-nuff Zenaidas floating around and pointing to KC. My Space---ZFG22---I say she was planning on offing the A's and turning into Zenaida and it wouldn't surprise me if Anne knew about it. I sure hope LE/FBI knows about all this stuff fore it's deleted.

I think they do. I know of a few people who copied a lot of this stuff, before it went off the air.

I don't think ZFG was an imaginary childhood friend. The family and friends had never heard of her, until the last couple years.

ZFG was prolly invented as an excuse for getting out of the house, for the night.

When I was young, I told my folks I was staying with "Trudy."

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:33 PM
P.S. Just thought of another reason it would be hard to explain why the imaginary Zanny the Nanny set this myspace up. According to KC Zanny had already broke into her myspace and changed the password to timer55, so if she had direct access to KC's myspace, there would be no reason to create a second myspace because all communication could have taken place within KC's myspace account via drafts saved in the mail section. Zanny could have logged in to KC account, typed a message to her, saved it as a draft and KC could have read it and responded with another draft and all of it would have remained away from the public eye. There never was the need to make such a risky move as to create a myspace page (that's not even set to private) just to pass "instructions" to KC.

LE has prolly already traced that "break-in" right back to its origin-- with KC.

CBTampa
05-03-2009, 02:34 PM
I just wonder why KC would set it up with that birthday to implicate a ZG, but then give a different birthday to the cops. Could it be that she simply forgot? That seems like it would be an important detail to get right if you're trying to frame somebody. Although... this is KC we're talking about. :crazy:

I don't remember...what birthdate did she give?

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 02:41 PM
Casey was still in jail on August 15th, if I remember correctly. There is no way she could have made this payment herself.

She would have had to have enlisted someone she trusted to make the payment for her.

Anne spent the night with KC----maybe she went and paid it for her.

ZubenElSchemali
05-03-2009, 02:46 PM
I have one very compelling reason to believe it isn't Casey that created this account. The person obviously didn't know her birthdate but wanted the Sun sign to be Pisces which Casey's myspace also has listed. The reason I don't believe it is her is that the person would have to have googled something like, "when does the Sun enter Pisces", or simply Pisces and would find out that the Sun enters Pisces most years on February 19. So, the person simply chose this date to get the Pisces sign. In 1986 when Casey was born, Sun entered Pisces just before midnight GMT on February 18 but EST would be on the 19th. Those born in the early morning hours in Florida would have an Aquarius Sun, not Pisces. She was born on March 19 when Sun is near the end of Pisces. But someone other than Casey that didn't take the time to find out or to look in the Orange County records to find her birth date wouldn't know that. In 1985 Sun entered Pisces about 5:30 pm GMT on the 18th which is extra early. So I would suggest that the person that created this account was simply trying to make it look like a Pisces person created this account. It looks to me like they simply chose a date they knew would be Pisces to match her Sun sign. Also, I highly doubt that on Oct. 16 this myspace would be primary on her mind. She knew what was coming down.

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:54 PM
That would be the smoking gun, IMO.

Sure would! Bang, KC!

Wouldn't that be in the released evidence, though?

Brini
05-03-2009, 02:56 PM
I originally posted this on Feb. 1st, but I think it could be of relevance here. What if KC was living/working at Sawgrass #210 (prior to the eviction date), and possibly receiving mail there using the ZFG alias, as well as her own name?

I will post this now, then go look for the links to the related docs:




KC's connection to Sawgrass Apt.
I posted this in the Sawgrass Resident Shares Insight Thread:

Another funny thing I found regarding the Sawgrass Apartments:

KC kept insisting that she left Caylee at #210, where she said ZG lived. She said that was the story she was sticking with. Why? We know she didn't leave her there, but take a look at this anyway:

In the doc dump dated 8/26/2008 I noticed something interesting.
(Follow the handwritten page numbers on the actual docs, not the pdf. numbers)

On page 51 there's a copy of the Sawgrass #210 lease that belonged to the evicted tenants, Joseph O. and Stacy A., dated 6/24/2006.

On page 52-53, there are copies of their lease renewal and an addendum for these tenants, dated 4/27/2007.

My first thought was, why is OCSO releasing the name of these evicted tenants? Probably to verify that ZG never lived there, but _how_ embarrassing for these poor people.

But then I noticed- the female tenant's name had changed from Stacy A to Stacy O, and the signatures where _completely_ different! Marriage would _not_ explain that!

If you think I'm off base, take a look at the signature on the renewal. Hhhmmmm... maybe it looks familiar? (KC's printing sample, same docs, pgs. 28-31)

They were evicted in February, and it's been noted the apartment was empty after 2/29/2008, before the renewal expired. That's also very close to the time KC showed up at RM's apartment looking for a place to stay.

Could this have anything to do with where KC was "working" from? Or why her friend KSR refused to talk to OCSO? Or Annie's missing interview? Hhhmmm... Maybe she was trying to rent the same apartment again, one where Caylee's fingerprints might be all over the place.

Any thoughts?

Someone replied that SO and JO were divorced. Then yesterday I found an old thread titled Sawgrass Apt virtual Tour.

Back in 8/08-10/8, some members agreed that pictures found in KC's photobucket (which are no longer available) showed an apartment where KC held parties, and the apartment matched the apartment on the Sawgrass Virtual Tour website. Apparently the thread kind of died out. The last post was in October.

Anyway, I went back to the docs released on 8/26/08 and took another look at the Joseph O and Stacy O docs.

I found something else:
On the OCSO doc (hand numbered pg 50), it says the eviction process was returned, not delvered to the defendants JO and SO.

The reason given (at the bottom of the form):

EXPLANATION
RETURNED UNEX PLAINTIFF HAS POSS OF APT- 02/27/08

JO and SO were gone! Could KC have been staying and "working" there?
The eviction date 02/29/08 closely coincides with KC's arrivial at RM's the beginning of March. I still think there's something to this!

Did anyone download those photobucket pictures mentioned in the Sawgrass Apt Virtual Tour thread?

What do you think? Is that where KC was after KC and Jesse broke up? If friends partied there, as suggested in the old thread, they'll be able to testify to that fact.

I'm a sceptic, but that sounds plausible, to me.

Maybe she wasn't working there. Maybe she and her friends used that empty apartment to party. Maybe for a mail drop.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 02:57 PM
HA! Did ya'll see this comment?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.channel&channelID=389838213

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:00 PM
I have one very compelling reason to believe it isn't Casey that created this account. The person obviously didn't know her birthdate but wanted the Sun sign to be Pisces which Casey's myspace also has listed. The reason I don't believe it is her is that the person would have to have googled something like, "when does the Sun enter Pisces", or simply Pisces and would find out that the Sun enters Pisces most years on February 19. So, the person simply chose this date to get the Pisces sign. In 1986 when Casey was born, Sun entered Pisces just before midnight GMT on February 18 but EST would be on the 19th. Those born in the early morning hours in Florida would have an Aquarius Sun, not Pisces. She was born on March 19 when Sun is near the end of Pisces. But someone other than Casey that didn't take the time to find out or to look in the Orange County records to find her birth date wouldn't know that. In 1985 Sun entered Pisces about 5:30 pm GMT on the 18th which is extra early. So I would suggest that the person that created this account was simply trying to make it look like a Pisces person created this account. It looks to me like they simply chose a date they knew would be Pisces to match her Sun sign. Also, I highly doubt that on Oct. 16 this myspace would be primary on her mind. She knew what was coming down.

I think you're right. I don't think KC did it, either. But, I also bow to your reasoning.

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:02 PM
HA! Did ya'll see this comment?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.channel&channelID=389838213

I think a kid posted that.

KC's work would likely have been a bit more decorative IMHO.

I'm just a little surprised there aren't a passel of phony Zenaida w/s.

I also think that if KC had though to post a MySpace, she also would have tried to fake some phone calls (from throw away phones) and some emails (from libraries or Net cafes).

sunflowerchick
05-03-2009, 03:12 PM
I have one very compelling reason to believe it isn't Casey that created this account. The person obviously didn't know her birthdate but wanted the Sun sign to be Pisces which Casey's myspace also has listed. The reason I don't believe it is her is that the person would have to have googled something like, "when does the Sun enter Pisces", or simply Pisces and would find out that the Sun enters Pisces most years on February 19. So, the person simply chose this date to get the Pisces sign. In 1986 when Casey was born, Sun entered Pisces just before midnight GMT on February 18 but EST would be on the 19th. Those born in the early morning hours in Florida would have an Aquarius Sun, not Pisces. She was born on March 19 when Sun is near the end of Pisces. But someone other than Casey that didn't take the time to find out or to look in the Orange County records to find her birth date wouldn't know that. In 1985 Sun entered Pisces about 5:30 pm GMT on the 18th which is extra early. So I would suggest that the person that created this account was simply trying to make it look like a Pisces person created this account. It looks to me like they simply chose a date they knew would be Pisces to match her Sun sign. Also, I highly doubt that on Oct. 16 this myspace would be primary on her mind. She knew what was coming down.

No offense, but I think this is another compelling evidence why KC might have created this account. Since KC's sign is Pisces, I can see her trying to create a birthdate that is also Pisces, so as to keep things as simple as possible. I think your explanation is a little too complicated for someone who doesn't study astrology in detail.

Also, I think that she knew what was coming down, and that would be exactly the reason for trying to cover her tracks.

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Just an FYI-- Peoplefinder finds three Zenaida Gonzales in Orlando-- ages 37, 68, and 73. Some more, in other parts of FL. I think those were the three locals who LE initially discarded as possibles.

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:20 PM
No offense, but I think this is another compelling evidence why KC might have created this account. Since KC's sign is Pisces, I can see her trying to create a birthdate that is also Pisces, so as to keep things as simple as possible. I think your explanation is a little too complicated for someone who doesn't study astrology in detail.

Also, I think that she knew what was coming down, and that would be exactly the reason for trying to cover her tracks.

Only thing is.. LE reported KC's fake emails. Wouldn't they report a fake w/s?

I'm not saying I wouldn't put it past KC. I just don't think she thought of trying to create paper trails. (Like the paper trails that she tried to create re: her "boss" and her "events.")

I think she set up a ZFG, so she could get out of the house, for the night. Then, when she had to point a finger, ZFG was her only option (she thought).

Valhall
05-03-2009, 03:36 PM
I think a kid posted that.

KC's work would likely have been a bit more decorative IMHO.

I'm just a little surprised there aren't a passel of phony Zenaida w/s.

I also think that if KC had though to post a MySpace, she also would have tried to fake some phone calls (from throw away phones) and some emails (from libraries or Net cafes).

Well, this "kid" has uber predictive skills then, because he decided to try to set his "sun sign" the same as an unknown chick named Casey and make a myspace to connect with an unknown kidnapper's name on June 16th - a month before the story broke. He/she also apparently was able to predict that the very day they made the myspace would be the same day it looks like Caylee got killed.

That's uber-crystal ball stuff.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 03:41 PM
No offense, but I think this is another compelling evidence why KC might have created this account. Since KC's sign is Pisces, I can see her trying to create a birthdate that is also Pisces, so as to keep things as simple as possible. I think your explanation is a little too complicated for someone who doesn't study astrology in detail.

Also, I think that she knew what was coming down, and that would be exactly the reason for trying to cover her tracks.

Amen to the following the astrology---I was saying HUH?. I don't think she created that My Space to frame anybody. I think KC had long term plans. I had posted all this in a post here and it has disappeared.

She was gonna off her rents.
She got a ZFG drivers lis.
My Space
was gonna leave town to start a new life. She was gonna crawl out of KC's skin and into ZFG. Say the whole family was burned in a house fire. E-one would think she was in there 2.

In the meantime she has huge fight wid CA---gets mad and kills Caylee---just out of pure rage. Messed up her plans---I think she was gonna leave but CA caught her fore she got a chance leave,

Now she is sittin on her bed and Lee says, "Mom called the cops---What are you gonna say when cop says, "Ms. Anthony, where is your child?". LA says that she had some kind of reaction (can't member right off what kind) maybe like shocked--anyway-------oh he said. "it was like a light bulb went off". Think that is in the first interview. THAT is when she started using Zanny took her. Was the only way she could go. she figured she wasn't ever gonna get out of this---CA had already reamed her out from the moment she picked her up and she just wasn't gonna get out of this. So, we pulled ZFG off her shelf and started running with this story.

Whew---guess this will be deleted 2.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 03:48 PM
Well, this "kid" has uber predictive skills then, because he decided to try to set his "sun sign" the same as an unknown chick named Casey and make a myspace to connect with an unknown kidnapper's name on June 16th - a month before the story broke. He/she also apparently was able to predict that the very day they made the myspace would be the same day it looks like Caylee got killed.

That's uber-crystal ball stuff.

WTG-------well said.

sunflowerchick
05-03-2009, 03:49 PM
Only thing is.. LE reported KC's fake emails. Wouldn't they report a fake w/s?

I'm not saying I wouldn't put it past KC. I just don't think she thought of trying to create paper trails. (Like the paper trails that she tried to create re: her "boss" and her "events.")

I think she set up a ZFG, so she could get out of the house, for the night. Then, when she had to point a finger, ZFG was her only option (she thought).

I don't know... If this is the "smoking gun" or even just REALLY incriminating, they may not have released the information. I don't think LE is required to release everything if it can hurt a criminal trial or investigation.

I think this was an attempt at creating paper trails, but for whatever reason she abandoned it. Maybe she ran out of time, hence the "just one more day mom", or something. I am just guessing, but I think this line of thinking has some merit.

sua_sponte
05-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Did KC "ping" anywhere near a place where she could use a public computer, or a friend's computer on the 16th?

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Well, this "kid" has uber predictive skills then, because he decided to try to set his "sun sign" the same as an unknown chick named Casey and make a myspace to connect with an unknown kidnapper's name on June 16th - a month before the story broke. He/she also apparently was able to predict that the very day they made the myspace would be the same day it looks like Caylee got killed.

That's uber-crystal ball stuff.

You're right, Valhall. Or, we should find said kid to get lotto numbers for us. :)

OK. I concede that KC may have made a (very lame) attempt to create a ZFG on MySpace.

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:53 PM
I don't know... If this is the "smoking gun" or even just REALLY incriminating, they may not have released the information. I don't think LE is required to release everything if it can hurt a criminal trial or investigation.

I think this was an attempt at creating paper trails, but for whatever reason she abandoned it. Maybe she ran out of time, hence the "just one more day mom", or something. I am just guessing, but I think this line of thinking has some merit.

So do I. Now. :)

Brini
05-03-2009, 03:55 PM
Amen to the following the astrology---I was saying HUH?. I don't think she created that My Space to frame anybody. I think KC had long term plans. I had posted all this in a post here and it has disappeared.

She was gonna off her rents.
She got a ZFG drivers lis.
My Space
was gonna leave town to start a new life. She was gonna crawl out of KC's skin and into ZFG. Say the whole family was burned in a house fire. E-one would think she was in there 2.

In the meantime she has huge fight wid CA---gets mad and kills Caylee---just out of pure rage. Messed up her plans---I think she was gonna leave but CA caught her fore she got a chance leave,

Now she is sittin on her bed and Lee says, "Mom called the cops---What are you gonna say when cop says, "Ms. Anthony, where is your child?". LA says that she had some kind of reaction (can't member right off what kind) maybe like shocked--anyway-------oh he said. "it was like a light bulb went off". Think that is in the first interview. THAT is when she started using Zanny took her. Was the only way she could go. she figured she wasn't ever gonna get out of this---CA had already reamed her out from the moment she picked her up and she just wasn't gonna get out of this. So, we pulled ZFG off her shelf and started running with this story.

Whew---guess this will be deleted 2.

Sounds good to me! Except, I don't think she planned to leave town.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 03:56 PM
Sounds good to me! Except, I don't think she planned to leave town.

Why? Peep around town would know she was KC.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 03:58 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if she and Anne both planned to do this----together.

sunflowerchick
05-03-2009, 04:02 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if she and Anne both planned to do this----together.

Remember Anne saying that KC told her she was having a nervous breakdown and wanted to commit herself or something like that... Can you see Anne as a friend saying: "Calm down, we'll go somewhere you and me. We'll start over. No need to commit yourself, we can handle this. Let's just get away and work it out."

Weird how the more I think about it, the more things start to make sense more than they even have...

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Remember Anne saying that KC told her she was having a nervous breakdown and wanted to commit herself or something like that... Can you see Anne as a friend saying: "Calm down, we'll go somewhere you and me. We'll start over. No need to commit yourself, we can handle this. Let's just get away and work it out."

Weird how the more I think about it, the more things start to make sense more than they even have...

I mean!!!!!!! Wasn't it Anne KC was acting naughty with in the livin room of a party with lots of peeps?

eddeva
05-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Why? Peep around town would know she was KC.


i think maybe she had fantasies about killing her parents mambear, perhaps making it look like a murder/suicide (w/ a mind like hers who knows) and getting the house, but i don't think she ever had the nerve to leave town, gawd knows she had long enough and didn't.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 04:30 PM
i think maybe she had fantasies about killing her parents mambear, perhaps making it look like a murder/suicide (w/ a mind like hers who knows) and getting the house, but i don't think she ever had the nerve to leave town, gawd knows she had long enough and didn't.

And it always comes back to this and sounds logical as H3ll. I am there with ya'll on this thought---but still there is that thang on my shelf I can't let go of.

Maybe there is a reason she had to wait---maybe had something to do with the 55--poot what was it---track55--nope--come on brain--ya'll know the 55 I'm talkin bout? hate when that happens------anyway---timer55? anyway--maybe she and Anne had 55 days to get out of Dodge---plans messed up when she killed Caylee. I can just see her doin it. She had Tone's house to stay at til she left------sure couldn't go back home---maybe she got side tracked with the fun she was havin---maybe she didn't figure CA would find her------as long as she was at arms length (cell phone)

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 04:35 PM
I feel like we might not know her as much as we think we do------well? Sometimes?

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 04:37 PM
OK--------lets say it another way---tell me why she wouldn't have left town. What was holding her? If she had somebody to leave with then it is like Thelma and Louise.

eddeva
05-03-2009, 04:39 PM
And it always comes back to this and sounds logical as H3ll. I am there with ya'll on this thought---but still there is that thang on my shelf I can't let go of.

Maybe there is a reason she had to wait---maybe had something to do with the 55--poot what was it---track55--nope--come on brain--ya'll know the 55 I'm talkin bout? hate when that happens------anyway---timer55? anyway--maybe she and Anne had 55 days to get out of Dodge---plans messed up when she killed Caylee. I can just see her doin it. She had Tone's house to stay at til she left------sure couldn't go back home---maybe she got side tracked with the fun she was havin---maybe she didn't figure CA would find her------as long as she was at arms length (cell phone)

timer55 yeah, i remember. casey changed her password to timer55 at exactly the same time she was online booking flights for the puerto rico trip and it was (counting from then) 55 days until they were due to leave. i kinda think it was just a countdown to her holiday and she weaved it into her lies later on as she does w/ so many benign things. i could be wrong though.
i'm not sure i think annie was in on any murder plans - the girl seems like a nervous wreck to me and in that she was given meds for just that years ago i don't think it has anything to do w/ caylee, but again i could be wrong. this case is so damn weird there's very, very little i'm willing to rule out mambear. every time i think i can't be shocked any more than i already am, bang! something new comes along.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 04:43 PM
LOL I know--------I don't think Anne had anythang to do with Caylee either. I think she was just gonna leave with KC. No--no--KC did it on her own.

eddeva
05-03-2009, 04:44 PM
OK--------lets say it another way---tell me why she wouldn't have left town. What was holding her? If she had somebody to leave with then it is like Thelma and Louise.

casey is a lot of dirty names and 'coward' is one of them. i don't think she did have anyone to leave w/. her friends all had their own lives to live, boyfriends, dreams and aspirations. casey was the only one who didn't and made up a life to fit in and be looked up to. another thing, she didn't have any money ... sure she'd stolen enough for a few nights at a motel but not the kinda cash you need to leave town and completely start over w/ no skills, work experience or education beyond high school. what would she do?

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 04:52 PM
casey is a lot of dirty names and 'coward' is one of them. i don't think she did have anyone to leave w/. her friends all had their own lives to live, boyfriends, dreams and aspirations. casey was the only one who didn't and made up a life to fit in and be looked up to. another thing, she didn't have any money ... sure she'd stolen enough for a few nights at a motel but not the kinda cash you need to leave town and completely start over w/ no skills, work experience or education beyond high school. what would she do?

Did Anne have anythang goin on?

Well, that we know of. is there anyway to find out of ZFG22 had a checking account--maybe she had some kind of shady job with the name ZFG

GA did find a resume of KC's that said "nanny"

Am really tryin

bogeygal
05-03-2009, 04:55 PM
I have one very compelling reason to believe it isn't Casey that created this account. The person obviously didn't know her birthdate but wanted the Sun sign to be Pisces which Casey's myspace also has listed. The reason I don't believe it is her is that the person would have to have googled something like, "when does the Sun enter Pisces", or simply Pisces and would find out that the Sun enters Pisces most years on February 19. So, the person simply chose this date to get the Pisces sign. In 1986 when Casey was born, Sun entered Pisces just before midnight GMT on February 18 but EST would be on the 19th. Those born in the early morning hours in Florida would have an Aquarius Sun, not Pisces. She was born on March 19 when Sun is near the end of Pisces. But someone other than Casey that didn't take the time to find out or to look in the Orange County records to find her birth date wouldn't know that. In 1985 Sun entered Pisces about 5:30 pm GMT on the 18th which is extra early. So I would suggest that the person that created this account was simply trying to make it look like a Pisces person created this account. It looks to me like they simply chose a date they knew would be Pisces to match her Sun sign. Also, I highly doubt that on Oct. 16 this myspace would be primary on her mind. She knew what was coming down.

It is plausible that someone would just randomly look up dates when the Sun is in Pisces. But it could sure be Casey as well.

Just want to point out that KC was born in Warren, Ohio..not Florida. But you still have the correct EST for both places.

I'm not quite sure who created this myspace account! If it wasn't KC, it could have been a family member, friend or someone unknown. Maybe we will find out one day!

eddeva
05-03-2009, 05:07 PM
Did Anne have anythang goin on?

Well, that we know of. is there anyway to find out of ZFG22 had a checking account--maybe she had some kind of shady job with the name ZFG

GA did find a resume of KC's that said "nanny"

Am really tryin


i don't know any more about annie than the rest of us do, but she had friends, had boyfriends, and while she's jumpy as a virgin at a prison rodeo, apart from that she seems to have her life going where she wants it to. i think for a person to decide to run away from their home, family, pals, job, entire life, there has to be a very compelling reason and if annie had been someone w/ a reason like that i think we'd have heard about it.
i have to wonder why she'd choose to run away w/ casey too. wouldn't she wonder where caylee was?
i've thought about the possibility that casey had a very shady job and i haven't ruled it out but at the same time, i don't think she'd be saving the money. i think she'd be hemorrhaging cash to show off, after all she loved to play one-upmanship and if anyone ever lived in the moment and didn't plan ahead - i think we've found our girl.
sure, she could have forged certificates in pretty much anything but she wouldn't actually be able to do the job when she got there .... unless it was as a nanny ... but why would she kill a pesky kid she didn't want to take care of so she could get a job as a nanny and take care of someone elses pesky kid she doesn't want to take care of?

sorry it took me so long to get back to you mambear. my little ones got to stay up late and getting them to bed wasn't easy, lol!

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 05:17 PM
NP eddeva------gotta lub dem babies. I will sit back and ponder all this for awhile. Take my pipe to the rocker on the porch and think. LMAO

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:18 PM
i think maybe she had fantasies about killing her parents mambear, perhaps making it look like a murder/suicide (w/ a mind like hers who knows) and getting the house, but i don't think she ever had the nerve to leave town, gawd knows she had long enough and didn't.

I think she had the same fantasies.

But, KC only went to the same few places. She didn't even drive to other towns for fun.

I'm not sure she could leave her comfort area, go away, and establish a new identity.

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:19 PM
Why? Peep around town would know she was KC.

Because she had a lot of time to do it, and didn't.

Pink Panther
05-03-2009, 05:26 PM
I think she had the same fantasies.

But, KC only went to the same few places. She didn't even drive to other towns for fun.

I'm not sure she could leave her comfort area, go away, and establish a new identity.
I totally agree with you! This woman never left her "comfort zone"...Not for a second! She could have been zigzagging Florida (let alone the States) in the 31 days she had and all she could muster was back and forth between boyfriend-of-the-moment TonE's place and Mom and Dad's place on freekin' Hopespring!

MOO

eddeva
05-03-2009, 05:29 PM
NP eddeva------gotta lub dem babies. I will sit back and ponder all this for awhile. Take my pipe to the rocker on the porch and think. LMAO


put it another way - if casey was splitting town, leaving behind her very identity and becoming zanni, she's doing it to hide. if annie went w/ her it would be too risky to keep her own identity b/c find annie and you find casey. annie would have to create a new identity too and that would mean breaking away from her own family, home, everything FOREVER. i just can't imagine anyone doing this unless they were running away from something terrible, something powerful. it's not something you and a mate do for kicks and b/c i don't believe annie was involved in the murder she has nothing to run away from.

i might not be making sense mambear and if that's the case then i'm sorry. i spent most of the weekend in london and the driving to and from has prompted one of my pretty much bi-weekly migraines.
sorry too for any and all typos.

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:37 PM
i don't know any more about annie than the rest of us do, but she had friends, had boyfriends, and while she's jumpy as a virgin at a prison rodeo, apart from that she seems to have her life going where she wants it to. i think for a person to decide to run away from their home, family, pals, job, entire life, there has to be a very compelling reason and if annie had been someone w/ a reason like that i think we'd have heard about it.
i have to wonder why she'd choose to run away w/ casey too. wouldn't she wonder where caylee was?
i've thought about the possibility that casey had a very shady job and i haven't ruled it out but at the same time, i don't think she'd be saving the money. i think she'd be hemorrhaging cash to show off, after all she loved to play one-upmanship and if anyone ever lived in the moment and didn't plan ahead - i think we've found our girl.
sure, she could have forged certificates in pretty much anything but she wouldn't actually be able to do the job when she got there .... unless it was as a nanny ... but why would she kill a pesky kid she didn't want to take care of so she could get a job as a nanny and take care of someone elses pesky kid she doesn't want to take care of?

sorry it took me so long to get back to you mambear. my little ones got to stay up late and getting them to bed wasn't easy, lol!

Well, she didn't have any nanny references to show.

But, there is one thing more... nannying is hard work. We know how KC felt about the "w' word.

She also might not want to take a low-status unskilled job like most of the rest of us have done, at one time or another.

Her only experience was selling photos in an amusement park kiosk. Maybe she could do that.

She couldn't be a professional thief. She always got caught, and had to get CA to bail her out.

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:39 PM
timer55 yeah, i remember. casey changed her password to timer55 at exactly the same time she was online booking flights for the puerto rico trip and it was (counting from then) 55 days until they were due to leave. i kinda think it was just a countdown to her holiday and she weaved it into her lies later on as she does w/ so many benign things. i could be wrong though.
i'm not sure i think annie was in on any murder plans - the girl seems like a nervous wreck to me and in that she was given meds for just that years ago i don't think it has anything to do w/ caylee, but again i could be wrong. this case is so damn weird there's very, very little i'm willing to rule out mambear. every time i think i can't be shocked any more than i already am, bang! something new comes along.

I thought LE said Annie was cooperating?

She mighta been nervous, because she was maybe giving KC some pills.

I don't think anyone was in on KC's murder plans, except KC.

CBTampa
05-03-2009, 05:39 PM
Well, she didn't have any nanny references to show.

But, there is one thing more... nannying is hard work. We know how KC felt about the "w' word.

She also might not want to take a low-status unskilled job like most of the rest of us have done, at one time or another.

Her only experience was selling photos in an amusement park kiosk. Maybe she could do that.

She couldn't be a professional thief. She always got caught, and had to get CA to bail her out.

How do we know that she always got caught?

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:43 PM
And it always comes back to this and sounds logical as H3ll. I am there with ya'll on this thought---but still there is that thang on my shelf I can't let go of.

Maybe there is a reason she had to wait---maybe had something to do with the 55--poot what was it---track55--nope--come on brain--ya'll know the 55 I'm talkin bout? hate when that happens------anyway---timer55? anyway--maybe she and Anne had 55 days to get out of Dodge---plans messed up when she killed Caylee. I can just see her doin it. She had Tone's house to stay at til she left------sure couldn't go back home---maybe she got side tracked with the fun she was havin---maybe she didn't figure CA would find her------as long as she was at arms length (cell phone)



I think she was anxious about getting caught, at first (nightmares at TonE's).

I think she got comfortable, after time went by and the body wasn't found.

I think she also thought she couldn't be prosecuted for murder, if there was no body.

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:45 PM
How do we know that she always got caught?

Well, at least she got caught a LOT. CA had to keep taking money out of her 401K to pay back KC's thefts. I think Rick said 20 or 40K (I don't remember which).

That, plus GA's inability to hold a job were seriously hurting the family, financially.

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:46 PM
put it another way - if casey was splitting town, leaving behind her very identity and becoming zanni, she's doing it to hide. if annie went w/ her it would be too risky to keep her own identity b/c find annie and you find casey. annie would have to create a new identity too and that would mean breaking away from her own family, home, everything FOREVER. i just can't imagine anyone doing this unless they were running away from something terrible, something powerful. it's not something you and a mate do for kicks and b/c i don't believe annie was involved in the murder she has nothing to run away from.

i might not be making sense mambear and if that's the case then i'm sorry. i spent most of the weekend in london and the driving to and from has prompted one of my pretty much bi-weekly migraines.
sorry too for any and all typos.

I also don't think KC would be willing to change her looks enough to take on another identity.

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:48 PM
casey is a lot of dirty names and 'coward' is one of them. i don't think she did have anyone to leave w/. her friends all had their own lives to live, boyfriends, dreams and aspirations. casey was the only one who didn't and made up a life to fit in and be looked up to. another thing, she didn't have any money ... sure she'd stolen enough for a few nights at a motel but not the kinda cash you need to leave town and completely start over w/ no skills, work experience or education beyond high school. what would she do?

Most of her friends dropped her pretty fast. Have any of them visited her, in jail?

eddeva
05-03-2009, 05:50 PM
I thought LE said Annie was cooperating?

She mighta been nervous, because she was maybe giving KC some pills.

I don't think anyone was in on KC's murder plans, except KC.

as far as i know she is cooperating and i agree, the only person involved in caylee's death is casey.

Pink Panther
05-03-2009, 05:50 PM
I thought LE said Annie was cooperating?

She mighta been nervous, because she was maybe giving KC some pills.

I don't think anyone was in on KC's murder plans, except KC.
I don't think that Annie had ANYTHING to do with Caylee's demise but I do think that she's a good representation of the dumb assed friends that a sociopath manages to "string" along! Annie has been posting her dumb-azzed myspace messages since this case broke and she has done so with the same vacant understanding of the situation as the A's have done since day 31. As I've stated previously, I hope she gets herself a decent lawyer before trial because whoever has been counselling her until now has done a less than CHIT-eous job!

MOO

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=39760803

a.n.n.i.e is in laudy for the weekend!!!!!! ..hating me wont make you pretty! [RIP CAYLEE MARIE]

Have I mentioned that I am really put off by her? Do I really need to see her tongue? She knows that there are many people investigating and following this crime that her close friend is accused of having committed.

Hope you had a great weekend in laudy Annie! You sound so lost and confused that you're likely to land in oz pretty soon!

MOO

eddeva
05-03-2009, 05:51 PM
Most of her friends dropped her pretty fast. Have any of them visited her, in jail?

none of them as far as i know brini. i should imagine they all feel shock, anger and a little embarrassed at having been so completely taken in (if they all were??)

Brini
05-03-2009, 05:54 PM
none of them as far as i know brini. i should imagine they all feel shock, anger and a little embarrassed at having been so completely taken in (if they all were??)

Yep! That and people don't cotton to baby murder.

Pink Panther
05-03-2009, 05:55 PM
none of them as far as i know brini. i should imagine they all feel shock, anger and a little embarrassed at having been so completely taken in (if they all were??)
Based on the interviews we've read, none of the "friends" can string a proper sentence together...Is it surprising that none of them had a clue?

MOO

eddeva
05-03-2009, 05:56 PM
Have I mentioned that I am really put off by her? Do I really need to see her tongue? She knows that there are many people investigating and following this crime that her close friend is accused of having committed.



*resp. snipped.
is it just me or are all casey's friends somewhat lacking in the maturity department? i keep having to remind myself that these people are adults.

eddeva
05-03-2009, 05:57 PM
Based on the interviews we've read, none of the "friends" can string a proper sentence together...Is it surprising that none of them had a clue?

MOO


point taken pink.

eddeva
05-03-2009, 06:01 PM
I also don't think KC would be willing to change her looks enough to take on another identity.

what perfect 10 would? (joke btw)

Brini
05-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Based on the interviews we've read, none of the "friends" can string a proper sentence together...Is it surprising that none of them had a clue?

MOO

This is pretty much the case.

Brini
05-03-2009, 06:25 PM
*resp. snipped.
is it just me or are all casey's friends somewhat lacking in the maturity department? i keep having to remind myself that these people are adults.

It's not just you.

Most of them seem to be work-challenged party animals. All the depths of a teaspoon.

Anybody see any bookcases in those apt piccies?

nyvictoria
05-03-2009, 06:56 PM
OK--------lets say it another way---tell me why she wouldn't have left town. What was holding her? If she had somebody to leave with then it is like Thelma and Louise.

Hiya Mama! Casey was certainly no Louise and I doubt she was even a Thelma. Great movie, btw!! I don't think Casey would ever leave Orlando. When carrying on with her social activities, partying, sleeping with random men and dirty dancing with the girls, she always stayed in Orlando. Aside from a trip to Myrtle Beach (IIRC) and a visit back to Ohio, she never left Orlando. I could be wrong, but I think those are the only times she went anywhere and I'll bet the family was with her. I think the reason she didn't go to PR with the gang was because she was afraid to travel, afraid to be away from her safety net, Cindy and George. She knew she could count on them to cover for her, no matter what she did or didn't do. Oh, and the money factor but she could have easily used the money she stole from Amy if she really wanted to go. In Orlando, Casey knew exactly who she could manipulate and if anyone caught on, she just moved on to another group. I think the fear of the unknown would have kept her in Orlando her entire life.

reeseeva
05-03-2009, 06:58 PM
It's not just you.

Most of them seem to be work-challenged party animals. All the depths of a teaspoon.
Anybody see any bookcases in those apt piccies?

:clap::clap::clap:

jon_burrows
05-03-2009, 07:04 PM
*resp. snipped.
is it just me or are all casey's friends somewhat lacking in the maturity department? i keep having to remind myself that these people are adults.

It's not just you. They all seem to act ~15/16 years old.

reeseeva
05-03-2009, 07:06 PM
It's not just you. They all seem to act ~15/16 years old.

In researching this age group in Orlando, someone coined the phrase, "Whorelando" and this was someone in the area! Don't shoot the messenger:eek:

Valhall
05-03-2009, 07:12 PM
I know I'm jumping around today (just kind of mulling a lot over at this point), but I have a question about ZG22 that's bugging me. If KC swears that Zanny is 25 years old, and there is only one Zenaida Gonzalez in the state of Florida in the age range of 20-29, why haven't we heard ANYBODY reference ZG22? The Anthony's haven't. But more interestingly LE hasn't. I mean ZG22 is missing. She's been a no-show on a criminal traffic case for 8 months now. A writ to produce her in court has been issued in the case. Shouldn't there be an APB out for her? Shouldn't they have asked the public to come forward with any information as to her whereabouts? Not only for the traffic case, but because she's the only Zenaida Gonzalez in Florida that matches the age range KC has given for Zanny.

chefmom
05-03-2009, 07:21 PM
I know I'm jumping around today (just kind of mulling a lot over at this point), but I have a question about ZG22 that's bugging me. If KC swears that Zanny is 25 years old, and there is only one Zenaida Gonzalez in the state of Florida in the age range of 20-29, why haven't we heard ANYBODY reference ZG22? The Anthony's haven't. But more interestingly LE hasn't. I mean ZG22 is missing. She's been a no-show on a criminal traffic case for 8 months now. A writ to produce her in court has been issued in the case. Shouldn't there be an APB out for her? Shouldn't they have asked the public to come forward with any information as to her whereabouts? Not only for the traffic case, but because she's the only Zenaida in Florida that matches the age range KC has given for Zanny.

Maybe because they know exactly who and where she is? If we assume that LE ran the name ZFG thru their databases at the very beginning, then we can also assume that they were made aware of this "ZFG22" from the start. They surely would have looked into this, with the traffic violation and payments being made on the fine. Perhaps they KNOW what we suspect to be true, and this info is being shielded from the Sunshine Laws by order of a judge. IMO, evidence that is this compelling and damning, assuming this scenario to be true, would be EXACTLY the type of information that both the SA and JB would NOT want released in the doc dumps, as it would surely "taint" the jury pool.

Valhall
05-03-2009, 07:24 PM
Speaking of tainting juries...Baez is filing for a change of venue

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-change-of-venue-050309,0,3113387.story

eddeva
05-03-2009, 07:29 PM
I know I'm jumping around today (just kind of mulling a lot over at this point), but I have a question about ZG22 that's bugging me. If KC swears that Zanny is 25 years old, and there is only one Zenaida Gonzalez in the state of Florida in the age range of 20-29, why haven't we heard ANYBODY reference ZG22? The Anthony's haven't. But more interestingly LE hasn't. I mean ZG22 is missing. She's been a no-show on a criminal traffic case for 8 months now. A writ to produce her in court has been issued in the case. Shouldn't there be an APB out for her? Shouldn't they have asked the public to come forward with any information as to her whereabouts? Not only for the traffic case, but because she's the only Zenaida Gonzalez in Florida that matches the age range KC has given for Zanny.


this is some terrific 'mulling' valhall :clap: jump around all you want!

metalcrystal
05-03-2009, 07:46 PM
I don't think that Annie had ANYTHING to do with Caylee's demise but I do think that she's a good representation of the dumb assed friends that a sociopath manages to "string" along! Annie has been posting her dumb-azzed myspace messages since this case broke and she has done so with the same vacant understanding of the situation as the A's have done since day 31. As I've stated previously, I hope she gets herself a decent lawyer before trial because whoever has been counselling her until now has done a less than CHIT-eous job!

MOO

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=39760803

a.n.n.i.e is in laudy for the weekend!!!!!! ..hating me wont make you pretty! [RIP CAYLEE MARIE]

Have I mentioned that I am really put off by her? Do I really need to see her tongue? She knows that there are many people investigating and following this crime that her close friend is accused of having committed.

Hope you had a great weekend in laudy Annie! You sound so lost and confused that you're likely to land in oz pretty soon!

MOO

You are put off by her because she has the same bad attitude as her buddy in jail. She thinks it makes her look like a badass. Ridiculous.

metalcrystal
05-03-2009, 07:50 PM
to get back on topic, I think KC is the real Zenaida. I think identity theft is right up her alley. I think there is a lot more about this that will come out at trial.

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 08:30 PM
to get back on topic, I think KC is the real Zenaida. I think identity theft is right up her alley. I think there is a lot more about this that will come out at trial.

Me to!!!!!!!!

chefmom
05-03-2009, 08:32 PM
Me to!!!!!!!!

Me three!!!!!!

sua_sponte
05-03-2009, 08:36 PM
Speaking of tainting juries...Baez is filing for a change of venue

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-change-of-venue-050309,0,3113387.story

sorry to stray o/t a little, but I hope Strickland gives JB a severe dressing down for having a media blitz in the same week he files a COV.
[/rant]

Mominva
05-03-2009, 08:37 PM
to get back on topic, I think KC is the real Zenaida. I think identity theft is right up her alley. I think there is a lot more about this that will come out at trial.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

shgrbkr
05-03-2009, 08:44 PM
to get back on topic, I think KC is the real Zenaida. I think identity theft is right up her alley. I think there is a lot more about this that will come out at trial.

ITA that ID theft is right up her alley, but although quite compelling evidence that there may be a connection amongst all of this, I'm not totally convinced. HOW LUCKY can one person be, that she concocted this fake persona, and lo and behold, ANOTHER Zenaida Gonzalez just falls into her lap on the very day she needed her to. Now, I haven't followed this thread very closely, so this issue may have been addressed earlier--if so, I apologize. But how can this be explained? Anyone have an idea? The only thing I can think of is KC found ZG via the tattoo shop and looked up info on her. Did the real ZG post info on her myspace about where and when she was going apt hunting?

MAMABEAR
05-03-2009, 08:54 PM
ITA that ID theft is right up her alley, but although quite compelling evidence that there may be a connection amongst all of this, I'm not totally convinced HOW LUCKY can one person be, that she concocted this fake persona, and lo and behold, ANOTHER Zenaida Gonzalez just falls into her lap on the very day she needed her to. Now, I haven't followed this thread very closely, so this issue may have been addressed earlier--if so, I apologize. But how can this be explained? Anyone have an idea? The only thing I can think of is KC found ZG via the tattoo shop and looked up info on her. Did the real ZG post info on her myspace about where and when she was going apt hunting?

Very possible.

Brini
05-03-2009, 09:53 PM
Speaking of tainting juries...Baez is filing for a change of venue

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-change-of-venue-050309,0,3113387.story

If they ask for Los Angeles, I'm gonna hurl!

metalcrystal
05-03-2009, 10:03 PM
ITA that ID theft is right up her alley, but although quite compelling evidence that there may be a connection amongst all of this, I'm not totally convinced. HOW LUCKY can one person be, that she concocted this fake persona, and lo and behold,she ne ANOTHER Zenaida Gonzalez just falls into her lap on the very day eded her to. Now, I haven't followed this thread [/B]very closely, so this issue may have been addressed earlier--if so, I apologize. But how can this be explained? Anyone have an idea? The only thing I can think of is KC found ZG via the tattoo shop and looked up info on her. Did the real ZG post info on her myspace about where and when she was going apt hunting?

This is one of the great mysteries about the case! I think it is of course not coincidental. The tattoo shop could be the link, but I think there is a LOT more to this than we know, maybe she picked Sawgrass because Zenaida went there, I think she may have been literally stalking her in a way, does this make any sense? She was up to something, scheming the whole time. Looking for someone to blame,didnt she google Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales? You know shady people can get Id's made easily. Maybe she thought if there was a real ZFG, the nanny story would work better. Which if this is the case it gives even more weight to Zenaida's law suit. Stealing and sneaking around was KC's MO. Just thinking out loud.

chefmom
05-03-2009, 10:28 PM
This is one of the great mysteries about the case! I think it is of course not coincidental. The tattoo shop could be the link, but I think there is a LOT more to this than we know, maybe she picked Sawgrass because Zenaida went there, I think she may have been literally stalking her in a way, does this make any sense? She was up to something, scheming the whole time. Looking for someone to blame,didnt she google Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales? You know shady people can get Id's made easily. Maybe she thought if there was a real ZFG, the nanny story would work better. Which if this is the case it gives even more weight to Zenaida's law suit. Stealing and sneaking around was KC's MO. Just thinking out loud.

Well, keep thinking, cuz you and I are thinking along the same lines! :) Let's not forget the ZG that had her office broken into as well!

mitzi
05-03-2009, 11:17 PM
Based on the interviews we've read, none of the "friends" can string a proper sentence together...Is it surprising that none of them had a clue?

MOO

Boy, I do agree with you, with one exception...Amy. Now there's a girl who talks like a normal human being.

jjgram
05-03-2009, 11:44 PM
Me three!!!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:Banane43::Banane31::Banane27::bananapowerslide:

4 for the ZG +
Zanny ~ Zanny - Bo Banny -
Bananna Fanna Fo FANNY
Fe Fi Fo N A N N Y = Z A N NY ! ! ! !

just saying !

jmo
God Bless
jjgram

chefmom
05-03-2009, 11:50 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
:Banane43::Banane31::Banane27::bananapowerslide:

4 for the ZG +
Zanny ~ Zanny - Bo Banny -
Bananna Fanna Fo FANNY
Fe Fi Fo N A N N Y = Z A N NY ! ! ! !

just saying !

jmo
God Bless
jjgram

LMAO!!! You're killing me with that banana song!!!

:laughitup::laughitup::laughitup::laughitup:

jjgram
05-03-2009, 11:59 PM
LMAO!!! You're killing me with that banana song!!!

:laughitup::laughitup::laughitup::laughitup:

:crazy::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:
:treadmill::treadmill::treadmill:
:not_ripe::Banane48::crazy:
:Banane10::Banane10::bananajump::Banane09:

Try to forgive me....

I thought if I passed it on... I could get it out
of my head....
but.......................IT's NOT WORKING !!!

Wish
KC
Had something in her head saying

" S P I T it out.... Spit it out.... the gum 1st then
the * T R U T H * ! ! ! "

Perhaps I should try s l e e p ! ! !

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram


I don't even wanna eat a Banana now..... :eek:

chefmom
05-04-2009, 12:03 AM
:crazy::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:
:treadmill::treadmill::treadmill:
:not_ripe::Banane48::crazy:
:Banane10::Banane10::bananajump::Banane09:

Try to forgive me....

I thought if I passed it on... I could get it out
of my head....
but.......................IT's NOT WORKING !!!

Wish
KC
Had something in her head saying

" S P I T it out.... Spit it out.... the gum 1st then
the * T R U T H * ! ! ! "

Perhaps I should try s l e e p ! ! !

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram


I don't even wanna eat a Banana now..... :eek:

Lol! It's all good! Except now, everytime I see one of those bananas in a post, that song starts going in my head! *Banana Fana Fo Fanna*

:crazy:

shgrbkr
05-04-2009, 12:32 AM
This is one of the great mysteries about the case! I think it is of course not coincidental. The tattoo shop could be the link, but I think there is a LOT more to this than we know, maybe she picked Sawgrass because Zenaida went there, I think she may have been literally stalking her in a way, does this make any sense? She was up to something, scheming the whole time. Looking for someone to blame,didnt she google Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales? You know shady people can get Id's made easily. Maybe she thought if there was a real ZFG, the nanny story would work better. Which if this is the case it gives even more weight to Zenaida's law suit. Stealing and sneaking around was KC's MO. Just thinking out loud.

Too bad we don't have ZG cell phone records to see if KC and ZG were pinging off the same towers at significant times. IDK, it's just so weird. The ZG myspace in Miami with dancing dora, the traffic ticket....I mean, if there was a CA vs KC fight on the 15th that was the catalyst for KC to murder Caylee, how "coincidental" that ZG was going looking at an apt on the 17th at Sawgrass. Besides, JG first heard KC say the name Zanny a looong time before 2008. This info just bounces around in my head, somewhere in there I know something makes sense, but then I can't pull the "sense" together in a concrete way. BTW, quite a while back I looked up the name Zenaida Gonzalez on myspace..there were several, but NONE of the nicknames any of them used was "Zanny" they were all Zenny. I don't think I found one Zanny, but like I said, it's been a while. I don't keep up on this thread because it makes me insane trying to make it make sense.

I remember reading where one WS person turned the ZG22 info in to someone associated with the courts in Orlando...whatever came of that--anything???

MAMABEAR
05-04-2009, 12:50 AM
Wonder why GA made such a big deal at the way Morgan was saying Zanny, Zany, Zeny? What difference does it make? How does he know about the way it should be said or how it is spelled? I live here at W/S and I don't member ever seeing anybody saying "Zeny" or whatever. All I ever knew was Zanny the nanny. Guess thats what I get for thinkin.

Aldo put this on GA's depo. I would really like to know what or if this means anythang.

chefmom
05-04-2009, 12:54 AM
Too bad we don't have ZG cell phone records to see if KC and ZG were pinging off the same towers at significant times. IDK, it's just so weird. The ZG myspace in Miami with dancing dora, the traffic ticket....I mean, if there was a CA vs KC fight on the 15th that was the catalyst for KC to murder Caylee, how "coincidental" that ZG was going looking at an apt on the 17th at Sawgrass. Besides, JG first heard KC say the name Zanny a looong time before 2008. This info just bounces around in my head, somewhere in there I know something makes sense, but then I can't pull the "sense" together in a concrete way. BTW, quite a while back I looked up the name Zenaida Gonzalez on myspace..there were several, but NONE of the nicknames any of them used was "Zanny" they were all Zenny. I don't think I found one Zanny, but like I said, it's been a while. I don't keep up on this thread because it makes me insane trying to make it make sense.

I remember reading where one WS person turned the ZG22 info in to someone associated with the courts in Orlando...whatever came of that--anything???

We do not know......yet! But there are simply too many coincidences with this whole scenario for it to be just a coincidence. Somewhere on here, I'm not sure if it was this thread or another, there were some fantastic sleuths that had turned up a connection between KC and some characters that were involved in some shady things, one of those things having to do with rental scams. It is possible that this ZG was "lured" or "invited" to the SG apts on that date and for a reason. Just a possibility.

Valhall
05-04-2009, 06:20 AM
Has ZFG been deposed by Baez yet for the counter suit?

shgrbkr
05-04-2009, 06:25 AM
I remember reading where one WS person turned the ZG22 info in to someone associated with the courts in Orlando...whatever came of that--anything???[/QUOTE]

We do not know......yet! But there are simply too many coincidences with this whole scenario for it to be just a coincidence. Somewhere on here, I'm not sure if it was this thread or another, there were some fantastic sleuths that had turned up a connection between KC and some characters that were involved in some shady things, one of those things having to do with rental scams. It is possible that this ZG was "lured" or "invited" to the SG apts on that date and for a reason. Just a possibility.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, like I said, it bounces around in my head and I feel like there IS something there, I just can't make it make sense. I sure do hope LE is all over this though.

scorpion1110
05-04-2009, 06:26 AM
Has ZFG been deposed by Baez yet for the counter suit?

I am almost positive she has not, she probably won't be either, I could be wrong though........anyone else know? :)

scratchthatitch
05-04-2009, 09:51 AM
Mornin' Y'all!:Jumpie::Jumpie::wave:

I've got a question, and Mods feel free to chime in.. :thumb:

What's the difference between this thread, and the "Zani Timeline- Other ZannyThoughts- Zanny Searches on Caseys computer"? :waitasec:



I've been posting over on the OTHER THREAD if it's about a Real:eek: Zenaida, or related to KC using information from a Real:eek: Zenaida, Zanny whatever...

I figured THIS THREAD is for posts about KC, posing as a Fake:rolleyes: Zenaida (Zanny), and the information that she(KC) uses..... uuuhh, from a Real:eek: Zenaida....uh:waitasec:.... then the lines start to get real blurry-like:drink:..... anyone else know what I mean?

KenoshaKid
05-04-2009, 10:13 AM
Did KC "ping" anywhere near a place where she could use a public computer, or a friend's computer on the 16th?

Or does MySpace save IP addresses? :)

The World According
05-04-2009, 10:54 AM
*resp. snipped.
is it just me or are all casey's friends somewhat lacking in the maturity department? i keep having to remind myself that these people are adults.

Someone here posted that KC was not the only one with a fake ID. These pals of hers were easily fooled because their lives revolved around being party buddies and playing truth or dare, beer pong etc. This doesn't lend itself to deep discussions about the latest book they have read or politics. It is just mindless chatter during partying. Does anyone know what was the "thing" Anne was going through and had George and Cindy pick her up and "Bring her to KC" while KC was out on bail? She said she, Cindy and KC slept in the same room that night she stayed over. I do think she did not kill the baby, but she knows way more than she told in her deposition. I do not consider her to have cooperated because unlike every other friend and relative, she is the only one who refused to come voluntarily to the police detectives and give a statement, she had to be ordered to do so by a judge, and she felt compelled to bring a lawyer which I trust she cannot normally afford. Anyone willing to steal from their very ill, old grandfather's nursing home account, is absolutely capable of stealing someone else's identity and trying to talk her way out of tickets with colorful lies. All day long.

chefmom
05-04-2009, 10:58 AM
Mornin' Y'all!:Jumpie::Jumpie::wave:

I've got a question, and Mods feel free to chime in.. :thumb:

What's the difference between this thread, and the "Zani Timeline- Other ZannyThoughts- Zanny Searches on Caseys computer"? :waitasec:



I've been posting over on the OTHER THREAD if it's about a Real:eek: Zenaida, or related to KC using information from a Real:eek: Zenaida, Zanny whatever...

I figured THIS THREAD is for posts about KC, posing as a Fake:rolleyes: Zenaida (Zanny), and the information that she(KC) uses..... uuuhh, from a Real:eek: Zenaida....uh:waitasec:.... then the lines start to get real blurry-like:drink:..... anyone else know what I mean?

Yes, Scratch, I know what you mean, and you are correct. However, at times, when we are sleuthing out subjects on a thread, especially the scenario of KC/ZFG or ZFG related things, they end up melding together. Many threads can lead back to another, especially with this case.

steadychick
05-04-2009, 10:59 AM
Something that keeps sticking in my brain is the fact that this Zenaida had lost her driver's license sometime in the past -- can't recall the date. Lost license plus tatoo parlor connection makes me suspicious.

The World According
05-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Wonder why GA made such a big deal at the way Morgan was saying Zanny, Zany, Zeny? What difference does it make? How does he know about the way it should be said or how it is spelled? I live here at W/S and I don't member ever seeing anybody saying "Zeny" or whatever. All I ever knew was Zanny the nanny. Guess thats what I get for thinkin.

Aldo put this on GA's depo. I would really like to know what or if this means anythang.

Hi Mama , George was out of his mind, heavily medicated and making no sense whatsoever. Neither his nor Cindy's description of Zanny was what KC described in her statement to police, for example she did not describe her as having black hair. I will try to find it for you, this will make you laugh, at one point in one of his police or FBI interviews he himself spells it out as Zenny. As Mark always says, "The truth doesn't change!", its these lies that get tricky for the Anthonys. To answer your question why was he making such a big deal out of it, it is because Cindy had him convinced this was BS, she had figured out how to make them look like an a--, he was to be as combative and uncooperative as possible. The best example of this was him regurgitating the "If I'm not mistaken her name is not Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez, just Zenaida Gonzalez". The perfect 10 thing was obviously discussed as well. They both know that every word they have said in all the police interviews was used against their daughter, they thought they could undo some of that damage and were desperately acting out. I went back and re read the statements of the apartment personnel and Mrs. Gonzalez did not do the writing on the guest card, the leasing agent states that they did. so Cindy was grabbing on to something that wasn't there, which seems to be an ongoing pattern in that family. George Anthony admitted he never met, spoke to, saw a picture of this gal, so of course he has no idea how she spelled her nick name. He was trying to ridicule the lawyer to level the playing field as he felt so incompetent and stupid and incredulous that he found himself in this position of the public knowing he was KCs fool for so long. All the anger and outrage was misplaced, of course. He is going to need counseling and medication the rest of his life and he may never be able to reconcile this. In the trial it is going to become apparent to he and Cindy that it is a very real possibility that their own daughter had planned to kill them both and inherit the home. These thoughts may creep in to his mind late at night when he is alone going over the "household weapons, neck breaking" searches on the computer, and why KC was having her friend Amy plan to move in to their home to the extreme that she already had her mail forwarded. It is amazing to me that he is even still standing. I do not condone him committing perjury, as he surely did, but once again I trace the blame right back to KC. Love your posts by they way.

metalcrystal
05-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Too bad we don't have ZG cell phone records to see if KC and ZG were pinging off the same towers at significant times. IDK, it's just so weird. The ZG myspace in Miami with dancing dora, the traffic ticket....I mean, if there was a CA vs KC fight on the 15th that was the catalyst for KC to murder Caylee, how "coincidental" that ZG was going looking at an apt on the 17th at Sawgrass. Besides, JG first heard KC say the name Zanny a looong time before 2008. This info just bounces around in my head, somewhere in there I know something makes sense, but then I can't pull the "sense" together in a concrete way. BTW, quite a while back I looked up the name Zenaida Gonzalez on myspace..there were several, but NONE of the nicknames any of them used was "Zanny" they were all Zenny. I don't think I found one Zanny, but like I said, it's been a while. I don't keep up on this thread because it makes me insane trying to make it make sense.

I remember reading where one WS person turned the ZG22 info in to someone associated with the courts in Orlando...whatever came of that--anything???


I think the ZFG thing goes waayy deeper than it appears. I think KC was sneaking, scheming and manipulating this angle for a long time. So convenient, to have another identity to blame things on, wasn't it? You can do a lot of sneaking on the Internet alone. Thats what she did, steal and sneak, and she had a lot of time on her hands to do it, especially after the murder. I can think of lots of ways it could be done. Say I think up a name, and google it, and Myspace it , or set up a Myspace for it. Talk to myself on it , or people start posting to me. You can follow someone with the real name online or actually follow them, and cause plenty of confusion. And if you like to lie and make up stories, you can make it sound real. I think KC was a$$ deep in this for a looong time. Now, I have no proof, this is all theory, and hunches. So you all who want links back off, this is simply what my instincts tell me was going on.
A couple years ago I went before the magistrate to legally add a middle name to my own, I was using it in a business. The one thing that struck me as I think back is the question she asked me " are you using this name change to cause confusion, mischief or mayhem in any way, situation or to any persons?" because you really can cause all of those things, and that is what is happening here. JMHO

metalcrystal
05-04-2009, 11:30 AM
Something that keeps sticking in my brain is the fact that this Zenaida had lost her driver's license sometime in the past -- can't recall the date. Lost license plus tatoo parlor connection makes me suspicious.

oh snap thats good

The World According
05-04-2009, 12:31 PM
Something that keeps sticking in my brain is the fact that this Zenaida had lost her driver's license sometime in the past -- can't recall the date. Lost license plus tatoo parlor connection makes me suspicious.

I hope so, he can subpoena their calendars and see what dates ZG was there compared to the dates KC was, or any of KC's buddies that she may have accompanied.

The World According
05-04-2009, 12:45 PM
Yes, you do it via a text to 'MYSPC'. But there was no text messages indicating this type of activity on KC's cell phone.

Aquarian,

You mentioned something about no forensics from the desktop showing this type of activity. You are correct as far as what we have seen so far. But we have not been provided an IP activity log for that desktop; only google searches. The forensics on "zenaida" searches would not pick up this myspace because it does not have a URL with "zenaida" in it...only the member number. So the "zenaida" keyword search done on the desktop would miss this activity.

Concerning 3rd party, I think it is highly likely it could have been done some where else (library, internet cafe, etc.). The deal is if it happened in the Orlando area on the 16th for a Zenaida in Miami, (who, by the way, apparently doesn't drive because she has no Florida driver's license), it's going to look pretty suspicious.

I can't invision a way the defense could pull off a believable story that a Zenaida babysitter, who doesn't seem to exist anywhere but in KC's mind, took the time on the same day she was nefariously plotting Caylee's kidnapping and death, to set up a myspace and list her location as Miami and to pick a birthdate of 2/19 - 1 month and 1 year to the day before KC's, and also to pick a Dora the Dancing doll picture for her myspace...and then not update it even though she is logging in all the way up to the day KC goes to the klinker...and then doesn't anymore. The lack of updating from 06/16 to 10/14 will shoot down any theory that "Zanny the Nanny" created this myspace to communicate with KC because any blog entry would have updated the "last update" to later than the creation date.

Although, with the way the Anthony's like to promulgate conspiracy theories, they probably will say she (the evil Zanny the Nanny) did ALL of that to make it look like KC is guilty.

Accident reconstruction expert, plus this ugly coping big ole bag of BS....is Baez thinking the can argue she flipped out and went into this imaginary world cover up after the trauma of an accident? (Stranger things have been argued, the twinkie defense, etc.) He needed to refute the forensics, he got LKB, Henry Lee, et al...., the accident reconstruction expert is a question for me. You don't call your baker when you need a mechanic. I think you are brilliant by the way. Your mother must be so proud. LOL

cecybeans
05-04-2009, 01:02 PM
I would love to know just how far back KC's interactions with the tattoo parlor actually go, as well as when the real ZG's does. It might help set a timeline for how early and how deep the ZG connection really goes.

For one thing, there were two ZG's in the area that KC could know about. The UCF mom who had her computer stolen (with her personal ID info_ the week of June 10 is one. She also physically resembles the phony "Zanny" description KC gave. Her name appeared on UCF newsletter stuff and she had a blog, so it's possible KC may have been familiar with her physical appearance via a photo. The other one had connections to the tattoo parlor, but KC did not describe her physically - which makes me think she may not have actually met her because everything else she described fit to the best of her knowledge (car, NY plates, link to Sawgrass, etc.).

Having a fake ID that stands alone is one thing; identity theft is quite another. This could be a chicken-egg type of scenario. Maybe KC was trying to meld the details of ZG22 into a real Zenaida to flesh it out. OR she may have originally taken the idea of an alternate identiy from a specific person/s.

Regardless of the scenario, I hope the SA emphasizes that all of her stealing and scheming require MAJOR premeditation proclivities.

The World According
05-04-2009, 01:04 PM
I had also been under the impression that the male rental agent (I printed a copy that I think has his name but it is hiding somewhere on my desk at the moment) who showed ZG the apt had filled it out.

He was the one that made it look like C - Zenaida Gonzale.

For one thing, it's entirely conceivable he dropped the z at the end of the last name. Also, the C- part almost looks like he started with the last name first and the pen skipped on the horizontal stroke of the G.

Either way (and sorry if this is slightly OT) the fact that someone else misspelled ZG's name on a visitor log constitutes proof according to CA that this woman's name is actually not Zenaida Gonzales would be hilarious if it wasn't so insane. It's right up there with using a two-year old's affirmation she saw a white dog as proof the owner is someone she's never mentioned and who has only ever supposedly been seen by a diabolically pathological liar who has an agenda. I'm surprised the whole family isn't selling timeshares in the Glades.

Doctors, lawyers, and every one I know, including myself, write quite poorly in a hurry, so yes the leasing agent could have written it wrong. I have friends with that last name and some of them spell it with an s at the end and some spell it with a z at the end. The very truth came out of George in his videotaped police/FBI interview where he is adamant that the child never, EVER showed any recognition of the name Zanny. He gave the example that he's ask her, "Did you have fun with Zanny today? and get a blank look back; whereas she would light up and happily tell him what all she did with "Uncle E and Aunt Malry" pronouncing it as Caylee had. There is no getting around this statement. I hope Morgan uses more of their own words to impeach them in the next round of depos, it is very compelling when you contrast their lie to the actual videotape.

nyvictoria
05-04-2009, 01:14 PM
I think the ZFG thing goes waayy deeper than it appears. I think KC was sneaking, scheming and manipulating this angle for a long time. So convenient, to have another identity to blame things on, wasn't it? You can do a lot of sneaking on the Internet alone. Thats what she did, steal and sneak, and she had a lot of time on her hands to do it, especially after the murder. I can think of lots of ways it could be done. Say I think up a name, and google it, and Myspace it , or set up a Myspace for it. Talk to myself on it , or people start posting to me. You can follow someone with the real name online or actually follow them, and cause plenty of confusion. And if you like to lie and make up stories, you can make it sound real. I think KC was a$$ deep in this for a looong time. Now, I have no proof, this is all theory, and hunches. So you all who want links back off, this is simply what my instincts tell me was going on.
A couple years ago I went before the magistrate to legally add a middle name to my own, I was using it in a business. The one thing that struck me as I think back is the question she asked me " are you using this name change to cause confusion, mischief or mayhem in any way, situation or to any persons?" because you really can cause all of those things, and that is what is happening here. JMHO

I've always had the feeling that Casey was stalking ZG on MySpace. ZG may have posted something about apartment hunting in the Orlando area. If Casey logged onto her own MySpace page, could she then navigate to other pages within the MS community without leaving a trail on her computer? Not that I think she was concerned about leaving evidence on her own computer but if she did think about it, there's a simple fix. Use a friend's computer to do her dirty work. I also believe Casey created the alternate ZG just to cover her bases in case the real ZG's movements didn't afford her enough wiggle room.

I don't know if this makes sense....just sort of rambling here :confused:

Valhall
05-04-2009, 11:42 PM
I was wondering if some of you uber-sleuthers could assist me in pinpointing exactly when Lee went from investigator to invisible. About what time frame did he seem to fade out of the scene?

Brini
05-05-2009, 03:52 PM
Something that keeps sticking in my brain is the fact that this Zenaida had lost her driver's license sometime in the past -- can't recall the date. Lost license plus tatoo parlor connection makes me suspicious.

Is there a tattoo parlor connection? What is it? Some Zannys get tats there?

reeseeva
05-05-2009, 03:56 PM
Is there a tattoo parlor connection? What is it? Some Zannys get tats there?

IIRC, Morgan's client Z Gongalez had a boyfriend that either worked or frequented the same Tattoo parlor where KC hung out.

Brini
05-05-2009, 03:57 PM
I was wondering if some of you uber-sleuthers could assist me in pinpointing exactly when Lee went from investigator to invisible. About what time frame did he seem to fade out of the scene?

He's still around, off and on. Apparently his job keeps him busy, sometimes.

Brini
05-05-2009, 04:25 PM
IIRC, Morgan's client Z Gongalez had a boyfriend that either worked or frequented the same Tattoo parlor where KC hung out.

Great! I never saw that! When did he say that?

Just Jayla
05-05-2009, 04:38 PM
IIRC, The ZG that is suing had a boyfriend whose MySpace page listed JDaly and/or Cast Iron tattoo....Will have to go back and see if I can find MySpace links on this, I am not certain.

ClockWatcher
05-05-2009, 04:43 PM
I was wondering if some of you uber-sleuthers could assist me in pinpointing exactly when Lee went from investigator to invisible. About what time frame did he seem to fade out of the scene?

It appears that by the beginning of September 2008 that question was being asked here at WS. This is around the time that the first documents were coming into play and hints of Caylee's DNA showing questionable parentage, as hinted by LP.

This link is the merger of two threads, both questioning the where-about of Lee. It starts in early September, then at around post 65 or so, skips to early October. Lot's of good stuff in these post's....have fun!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3698596

Just Jayla
05-05-2009, 04:48 PM
IIRC, Morgan's client Z Gongalez had a boyfriend that either worked or frequented the same Tattoo parlor where KC hung out.

More discussion on this at Zanny Timeline.Other Zanny thoughts thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3676572&highlight=zg+myspace+cast+iron#post3676572

I am looking through now to see if I can find the MySpace links that have the connection between JM's client ZG, and Cast Iron.

reeseeva
05-05-2009, 04:50 PM
Great! I never saw that! When did he say that?

Morgan never said that, it was reported that an ex-boyfriend of ZG either worked or frequented Cast Iron Tattoos. I've been searching media threads, but it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Closest yet, is Mark F on Greta saying that KC & ZG are one in the same. I know someone found the connection, to all three:waitasec:

Does anyone else remember this??

reeseeva
05-05-2009, 04:52 PM
More discussion on this at Zanny Timeline.Other Zanny thoughts thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3676572&highlight=zg+myspace+cast+iron#post3676572

I am looking through now to see if I can find the MySpace links that have the connection between JM's client ZG, and Cast Iron.

Thank you..........

eddeva
05-05-2009, 04:58 PM
More discussion on this at Zanny Timeline.Other Zanny thoughts thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3676572&highlight=zg+myspace+cast+iron#post3676572

I am looking through now to see if I can find the MySpace links that have the connection between JM's client ZG, and Cast Iron.


months ago someone ( i think bond??) posted that zenaida's boyfriend had a vid on his myspace of himself getting a tattoo and that one of his myspace friends was 'cast iron tattoo'.

Valhall
05-05-2009, 05:02 PM
Morgan never said that, it was reported that an ex-boyfriend of ZG either worked or frequented Cast Iron Tattoos. I've been searching media threads, but it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Closest yet, is Mark F on Greta saying that KC & ZG are one in the same. I know someone found the connection, to all three:waitasec:

Does anyone else remember this??

When did MF state that? Can you give a link to vid please? I'd like to watch that myself!

Valhall
05-05-2009, 05:03 PM
It appears that by the beginning of September 2008 that question was being asked here at WS. This is around the time that the first documents were coming into play and hints of Caylee's DNA showing questionable parentage, as hinted by LP.

This link is the merger of two threads, both questioning the where-about of Lee. It starts in early September, then at around post 65 or so, skips to early October. Lot's of good stuff in these post's....have fun!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3698596

Thank you. That's about the timeframe I had. Do you think it's possible that LA is the one that went and got the copies on the ZG22 case on 8/18/08 and that subsequent to that, he started figuring something out?

ClockWatcher
05-05-2009, 05:14 PM
When did MF state that? Can you give a link to vid please? I'd like to watch that myself!

Found a link to the show transcript, scroll down to the first comments made by Mark F.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400001,00.html


Not sure if this is the same??

ETA: from Friday August, 8th

ClockWatcher
05-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Thank you. That's about the timeframe I had. Do you think it's possible that LA is the one that went and got the copies on the ZG22 case on 8/18/08 and that subsequent to that, he started figuring something out?

The process of elimination doesn't leave many other people. Annie, Lee or one of Jose's employee's. My bet would be on Lee as I doubt that KC would have informed Jose of this issue and Annie had no need that I can think of to get the copies.

reeseeva
05-05-2009, 05:28 PM
When did MF state that? Can you give a link to vid please? I'd like to watch that myself!

Found Mark F. interview on Greta OTR, on this site:


http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_directory_index.htm

AZlawyer
05-05-2009, 05:30 PM
The process of elimination doesn't leave many other people. Annie, Lee or one of Jose's employee's. My bet would be on Lee as I doubt that KC would have informed Jose of this issue and Annie had no need that I can think of to get the copies.

I don't think you can use the process of elimination on this. Could be a detective wanting to get the copies ASAP--paying the $4 at the counter would be faster than going through "official channels." Could be a web sleuther....etc. ;)

MAMABEAR
05-05-2009, 06:51 PM
[/B]

Yeah, like I said, it bounces around in my head and I feel like there IS something there, I just can't make it make sense. I sure do hope LE is all over this though.[/QUOTE]

If you go here then maybe something will grab in your head. Been where you are right now--so when you figure it out---please share. LOL

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80578&page=69
POST 1722 VALHALL

MAMABEAR
05-05-2009, 06:57 PM
I am almost positive she has not, she probably won't be either, I could be wrong though........anyone else know? :)

Here's my theory on the KC and ZG:
post 556
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80667&page=23

MAMABEAR
05-05-2009, 07:11 PM
More discussion on this at Zanny Timeline.Other Zanny thoughts thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3676572&highlight=zg+myspace+cast+iron#post3676572

I am looking through now to see if I can find the MySpace links that have the connection between JM's client ZG, and Cast Iron.

:balloons::Welcome-12-june::balloons:
Dang your good. :blowkiss:

MAMABEAR
05-05-2009, 07:23 PM
I don't think you can use the process of elimination on this. Could be a detective wanting to get the copies ASAP--paying the $4 at the counter would be faster than going through "official channels." Could be a web sleuther....etc. ;)

I member that it is possible.

MAMABEAR
05-05-2009, 07:25 PM
Don't you hate it when you get to the end of a thread and find out you have been talkin to yourself!!!!!!!!

ClockWatcher
05-05-2009, 07:30 PM
Don't you hate it when you get to the end of a thread and find out you have been talkin to yourself!!!!!!!!

lol Mama :blowkiss:

Clock's Tickin
05-06-2009, 09:22 AM
I think the most telling indication of KC being ZFG is in the small lies she tells. She's been using Zanny as an excuse for a lot of tiny things. Remember, "Zanny gave me my straightener"---she must have bought (or stolen) a flat iron with money she didn't have and when CA asked...voila. I believe the same of the 2nd Jeff----KC is also Jeff---he "bought her that Tiffany ring" (probably also bought or stolen with $$$ she didn't have and had to be accounted for). She's been working this angle of convenience with imaginary friends probably since Caylee was born.

nachomama
05-06-2009, 09:27 AM
Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if the KC actually had a history as a "working" girl and used ZFG as her street name?

Clock's Tickin
05-06-2009, 09:33 AM
It'd be a kick, but I just don't see it. Not to mention that, according to her pings, she would've had to have been working IN her boyfriends' apartments and her parents house. She seems like an odd creature of habit...a half tame coyote...longs to be independent/self-sufficient, but just can't figure it out....desperately wants working relationships/friendships, but has not a clue how to make them work....surviving, but never thriving---choked out by being raised with NO responsibilities. I have a frightening feeling that there are a lot more potential KC's out there.

RNempath
05-06-2009, 07:11 PM
I think "Zanny" the nanny is exactly what it says. Zanny is short for Xanax, and Xanax would have been a handy nanny for KC. I'm quite positive they've done a hair analysis on caylee though. I hope they nail her.

eddeva
05-06-2009, 07:45 PM
I think "Zanny" the nanny is exactly what it says. Zanny is short for Xanax, and Xanax would have been a handy nanny for KC. I'm quite positive they've done a hair analysis on caylee though. I hope they nail her.


i thought that came came back negative, am i wrong?

nyvictoria
05-06-2009, 09:24 PM
i thought that came came back negative, am i wrong?

You're not wrong. They tested Caylee's hair for a variety of drugs, one of which was Xanax. They didn't find any of those drugs in Caylee's hair. However, the report also said something that I understood to mean a drug may not show up if she was dosed right before she died. Hair continues to grow after death. Maybe drugs wouldn't metabolize postmortem but I don't think she drugged Caylee with Xanax.

FWIW, they didn't test for Chloroform but I don't think Casey used that either.

eddeva
05-06-2009, 09:32 PM
You're not wrong. They tested Caylee's hair for a variety of drugs, one of which was Xanax. They didn't find any of those drugs in Caylee's hair. However, the report also said something that I understood to mean a drug may not show up if she was dosed right before she died. Hair continues to grow after death. Maybe drugs wouldn't metabolize postmortem but I don't think she drugged Caylee with Xanax.

FWIW, they didn't test for Chloroform but I don't think Casey used that either.

thanks for clearing that up, victoria. i don't think she used chloroform either ;)

cecybeans
05-06-2009, 09:39 PM
There's always another possibility. Zanny the Nanny might have been an in-joke between KC and say, Lee that was her nickhame for CA. If CA has xanax in her medicine cabinet (and regardless of what I think of her I'd be popping pills living with that group) she might have been the impetus; after all she probably watched Cayleed "90% of the time". Perhaps it had its roots in the little children's book that's been mentioned. KC could have easily read that as a child and then thought a humorous twist would be to call her mother "the nanny" and Zanny the Nanny if her mom had a xanax prescription. I can see KC and LA thinking of all kinds of little secret code nicknames for their parents; I know my sisters and I had ones we used for ours.

That certainly could have been how it started - became a convenient status thing when telling her friends (employed or going to college), and then once she needed an actual name to go with it, she could have used ZG (and if it turns out she herself is ZG22 so much the better). They are all built around the z connection.

whiteangora
05-06-2009, 09:43 PM
You're not wrong. They tested Caylee's hair for a variety of drugs, one of which was Xanax. They didn't find any of those drugs in Caylee's hair. However, the report also said something that I understood to mean a drug may not show up if she was dosed right before she died. Hair continues to grow after death. Maybe drugs wouldn't metabolize postmortem but I don't think she drugged Caylee with Xanax.

FWIW, they didn't test for Chloroform but I don't think Casey used that either.
bold,me
I'm pretty sure that is a myth that hair and fingernails grow after death. The tissue around nails shrinks and give an illusion of growth, same for the hair.:)

nyvictoria
05-06-2009, 10:03 PM
bold,me
I'm pretty sure that is a myth that hair and fingernails grow after death. The tissue around nails shrinks and give an illusion of growth, same for the hair.:)

Thanks for clarifying that misconception on my part. Makes sense...

mitzi
05-06-2009, 10:29 PM
You're not wrong. They tested Caylee's hair for a variety of drugs, one of which was Xanax. They didn't find any of those drugs in Caylee's hair. However, the report also said something that I understood to mean a drug may not show up if she was dosed right before she died. Hair continues to grow after death. Maybe drugs wouldn't metabolize postmortem but I don't think she drugged Caylee with Xanax.

FWIW, they didn't test for Chloroform but I don't think Casey used that either.

Actually LE did test for chloroform...they just sent it to another lab, not the FBI...see the Chloroform thread for link to an article stating this. :)

BTW, that result is not back yet.

nyvictoria
05-06-2009, 10:32 PM
Actually LE did test for chloroform...they just sent it to another lab, not the FBI...see the Chloroform thread for link to an article stating this. :)

BTW, that result is not back yet.


Oops!! Wrong again! I think I better take a break LOL

mitzi
05-06-2009, 10:46 PM
Here's the link: :blowkiss:

http://www.wftv.com/news/19346147/detail.html

New Documents May Give Casey's Defense Ammunition
Posted: 5:31 pm EDT May 1, 2009
Updated: 6:24 pm EDT May 1, 2009

-snip
The FBI did not test the hair found with Caylee's remains for chloroform, because its chemists said it wouldn't prove anything.

Chloroform is a by-product of decomposition. Even so, Eyewitness News has learned that prosecutors had someone else test Caylee's hair for chloroform and say the results will be in soon.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 11:45 PM
Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if the KC actually had a history as a "working" girl and used ZFG as her street name?

OMG-----I have said nearly the same thang here---somewhere.