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MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 11:47 PM
It'd be a kick, but I just don't see it. Not to mention that, according to her pings, she would've had to have been working IN her boyfriends' apartments and her parents house. She seems like an odd creature of habit...a half tame coyote...longs to be independent/self-sufficient, but just can't figure it out....desperately wants working relationships/friendships, but has not a clue how to make them work....surviving, but never thriving---choked out by being raised with NO responsibilities. I have a frightening feeling that there are a lot more potential KC's out there.

She could have used ZFG as a working girl before we learned about the pings---before they started for LE.

MAMABEAR
05-06-2009, 11:53 PM
Oops!! Wrong again! I think I better take a break LOL

We been hanging onto that blade on the ceiling fan to long. LOL

jjgram
05-07-2009, 02:04 AM
There's always another possibility. Zanny the Nanny might have been an in-joke between KC and say, Lee that was her nickhame for CA. If CA has xanax in her medicine cabinet (and regardless of what I think of her I'd be popping pills living with that group) she might have been the impetus; after all she probably watched Cayleed "90% of the time". Perhaps it had its roots in the little children's book that's been mentioned. KC could have easily read that as a child and then thought a humorous twist would be to call her mother "the nanny" and Zanny the Nanny if her mom had a xanax prescription. I can see KC and LA thinking of all kinds of little secret code nicknames for their parents; I know my sisters and I had ones we used for ours.

That certainly could have been how it started - became a convenient status thing when telling her friends (employed or going to college), and then once she needed an actual name to go with it, she could have used ZG (and if it turns out she herself is ZG22 so much the better). They are all built around the z connection.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Very interesting !
Thanks !

God Bless !
jjgram

LambChop
05-07-2009, 09:19 AM
This has probably been mentioned before but in order to keep up the illusion that KC had a job and when her friends would ask her well who is watching Caylee when your mom and dad are working she would probably use the Nanny excuse rather than say she no longer had a job. It was very important to her to keep friends thinking she was working rather than a stay-at-home mom. The Nanny was also useful when staying over RM's house and telling her parents she was staying with Zanny rather than coming home that night. KC did tell her mother in one of the videos from the jail that she would NEVER stay overnight with a boyfriend if Caylee was with her. We all know that is a lie. So Zanny was an excuse to keep up the appearances that she had this very important job at Universal which allowed her to employ a very expensive Nanny. If you look at her text messages you would have to wonder who would employ such a person as she must have always had her cell phone out texting messages to all her friends. KC and the Nanny, the same IMO.

RNempath
05-07-2009, 10:04 AM
That was soooo..... hilarious. can't wait til the next episode. New here. Hi.

Brini
05-07-2009, 03:04 PM
We been hanging onto that blade on the ceiling fan to long. LOL

I LIKE that, Mama! Can I borrow it?

Brini
05-07-2009, 03:07 PM
This has probably been mentioned before but in order to keep up the illusion that KC had a job and when her friends would ask her well who is watching Caylee when your mom and dad are working she would probably use the Nanny excuse rather than say she no longer had a job. It was very important to her to keep friends thinking she was working rather than a stay-at-home mom. The Nanny was also useful when staying over RM's house and telling her parents she was staying with Zanny rather than coming home that night. KC did tell her mother in one of the videos from the jail that she would NEVER stay overnight with a boyfriend if Caylee was with her. We all know that is a lie. So Zanny was an excuse to keep up the appearances that she had this very important job at Universal which allowed her to employ a very expensive Nanny. If you look at her text messages you would have to wonder who would employ such a person as she must have always had her cell phone out texting messages to all her friends. KC and the Nanny, the same IMO.

Yeah, I had a friend named, "Trudy." I went to "stay with her" when I ws someplace where I wasn't s'posed to be. ;-)

But, not having had a kid, I didn't have to create a nanny. Just an aliby for my parents.

tweety933
05-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Ale"xan"der = xany...... Isn't that someones middle name in her family? Also, maybe since the baby doll's name was "momma".....maybe Casey referred to herself as Xany.

Ripley007
05-07-2009, 10:42 PM
This has probably been mentioned before but in order to keep up the illusion that KC had a job and when her friends would ask her well who is watching Caylee when your mom and dad are working she would probably use the Nanny excuse rather than say she no longer had a job. It was very important to her to keep friends thinking she was working rather than a stay-at-home mom. The Nanny was also useful when staying over RM's house and telling her parents she was staying with Zanny rather than coming home that night. KC did tell her mother in one of the videos from the jail that she would NEVER stay overnight with a boyfriend if Caylee was with her. We all know that is a lie. So Zanny was an excuse to keep up the appearances that she had this very important job at Universal which allowed her to employ a very expensive Nanny. If you look at her text messages you would have to wonder who would employ such a person as she must have always had her cell phone out texting messages to all her friends. KC and the Nanny, the same IMO.

Bold by me. Forget about what a lousey employee KC would make with her non-stop texting, phoning, emailing, IMing...what kind of FULL-TIME Mommy did that make her? A NEGLECTFUL one for sure!:eek:

LambChop
05-08-2009, 11:32 AM
I may be mistaken but didn't CA give a tour or interview (with Greta or a local station) regarding KC receiving an award for employee of the month? Does anyone remember that? So according to CA, KC must have been employed if there was a "Certificate" as in there must be a Nanny if there is a dog.

MAMABEAR
05-08-2009, 11:48 AM
I LIKE that, Mama! Can I borrow it?

Yup-----as long as you can hang on. LMAO

JWG
05-10-2009, 12:35 AM
I hate recycling my own content, but I think it can be valuable to have a complete profile of the fictional nanny in one place. I added a little bit more information based on recent discussions. Thanks to eddiva for highlighting the Avalon connection. Updates in red.

Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez (KC's fictional nannie's name)

Vitals: (all taken from first interview unless otherwise noted)


25 Years old
5' 7" (5'6" to 5'7" - email from Lee)
140 lbs
Dark brown curly hair
Brown eyes
Mixed race: Black and Puerto Rican
Tan complexion (email from Lee)
No visible tatoos in 2-piece bathing suit (email from Lee)
Birthday in September


Family:


Mother: Gloria Gonzalez, 55 (email from Lee)
Step-dad: Victor Fernandez (email from Lee)
No children (interview #2)
Has brother and sister (1st interview)
Sister is Samantha, 1-2 years older, not sure if last name is different (email from Lee)

Roommates:


Raquel Farrell - hostess at Friday's (email from Lee)
Jennifer Rosa - works for ABC Distribution catalog in Orlando (email from Lee)

Residence:
From interview #1:


Moved to FL from New York. Tony was talking about moving to NY. Sawgrass ZG drives a car with NY plates.

Lived at apartment off Bumby and Robinson until about middle of 2007. The location turns out to be an "old folk's home" across the street from RM's. It is interesting to note that RM met KC in June 2007 and moved to his apartment in Orlando in Aug. 2007...the "middle of 2007."
From middle of 2007 to some time in the first six months of 2008 she lived at her mom's house "off Michigan just over Conway". This is near the BoA she passed Amy's check at. Also kinda near a real ZG. But most interesting, there is a person with the mother's name that in fact lives "off Michigan just over Conway".
Last lived at Sawgrass on Conway Rd., apartment #210 - moved there "just recently this year". The apartment had been vacant for several months and happened to be above the model apartment shown to prospective tenants. Sawgrass ZG looked at model apartment 6/17.


From interview #2 (after fessing up that she'd been lying):

Lived at Alafaya Club Apartments when KC first met her. Says a good friend from high school still lives there (male). These apartments are near JG and TR, - about half way in between.
More recently she was renting a house in Andover Lakes, off Dean and Curry Ford. This is fairly close to Lake Vaj, possibly area where she was at one point going to get a home or condo?

Babysitting: (from 1st interview unless otherwise noted)


Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
Has been watching Caylee for 1 1/2 to 2 years (statement)
Started watching Caylee about end of April 2006 at Jeff Hopkins and within the past 1 1/2 years at ZFG apartment. This coincides with Rev. Grund's statement regarding when he first heard of ZG.
The fictional Jeff Hopkins supposedly lived in Avalon Park out towards Bithlo, east of Fusian. This happens to be where Andy F. lived (she spent the night with him June 30 / July 1), as did friend Sean H. (just a few houses away).
Has known her for six years (IM's with Iassan).
Watched Jeff Hopkin's fictional son Zachary. Jeff introduced KC to ZFG. (interview #2)
The fictional Juliette Lewis's equally fictional daughter played with Caylee at ZFG's apartment. ZFG may have watched Lewis's child as well. (IM's between KC and l7tone)

Other:


Seasonal employee at Universal (interview #2)
Went to University of Florida (interview #2)
Drives 2008 silver Ford Focus purchased by step-dad (email from Lee)
Apparantly has some money, based on witness interviews relating what KC said to them.

Coincidences?:


Caylee's body was found within feet of the property boundary of one property belonging to a divorcee who used to have the last name "Gonzalez" and another property rented by a "Zenaida".
Katie Sue R., an employee of Sawgrass Apartments, stalled and then flatly refused to give LE an interview regarding whether she knew of any friends Casey Anthony had at Sawgrass.

After refusing to give an interview, she advised Corp Eric Edwards that Vicky A. lived at Sawgrass complex and was "a good friend of Casey's."

Vicky has friends/relatives named...
RAQUEL
JASMIN
VICTOR
SAMANTHA

Both Katie Sue R. and Vicky A. are listed as prosecution witnesses.

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 12:46 AM
Thanks so much ZWG for keeping this updated. It sure helps one from having to go thru whole thread looking for stuff.:blowkiss:

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 12:48 AM
What about the girl in school with KC? Could it be that it all started there? Maybe she had a crush on that girl or was jealous of her and kinda started her collection of ZFG.

ibyoungr
05-10-2009, 01:03 AM
I hate recycling my own content, but I think it can be valuable to have a complete profile of the fictional nanny in one place. I added a little bit more information based on recent discussions. Thanks to eddiva for highlighting the Avalon connection. Updates in red.

Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez (KC's fictional nannie's name)

Vitals: (all taken from first interview unless otherwise noted)


25 Years old
5' 7" (5'6" to 5'7" - email from Lee)
140 lbs
Dark brown curly hair
Brown eyes
Mixed race: Black and Puerto Rican
Tan complexion (email from Lee)
No visible tatoos in 2-piece bathing suit (email from Lee)
Birthday in September


Family:


Mother: Gloria Gonzalez, 55 (email from Lee)
Step-dad: Victor Fernandez (email from Lee)
No children (interview #2)
Has brother and sister (1st interview)
Sister is Samantha, 1-2 years older, not sure if last name is different (email from Lee)

Roommates:


Raquel Farrell - hostess at Friday's (email from Lee)
Jennifer Rosa - works for ABC Distribution catalog in Orlando (email from Lee)

Residence:
From interview #1:


Moved to FL from New York. Tony was talking about moving to NY. Sawgrass ZG drives a car with NY plates.

Lived at apartment off Bumby and Robinson until about middle of 2007. The location turns out to be an "old folk's home" across the street from RM's. It is interesting to note that RM met KC in June 2007 and moved to his apartment in Orlando in Aug. 2007...the "middle of 2007."
From middle of 2007 to some time in the first six months of 2008 she lived at her mom's house "off Michigan just over Conway". This is near the BoA she passed Amy's check at. Also kinda near a real ZG. But most interesting, there is a person with the mother's name that in fact lives "off Michigan just over Conway".
Last lived at Sawgrass on Conway Rd., apartment #210 - moved there "just recently this year". The apartment had been vacant for several months and happened to be above the model apartment shown to prospective tenants. Sawgrass ZG looked at model apartment 6/17.


From interview #2 (after fessing up that she'd been lying):

Lived at Alafaya Club Apartments when KC first met her. Says a good friend from high school still lives there (male). These apartments are near JG and TR, - about half way in between.
More recently she was renting a house in Andover Lakes, off Dean and Curry Ford. This is fairly close to Lake Vaj, possibly area where she was at one point going to get a home or condo?

Babysitting: (from 1st interview unless otherwise noted)


Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
Has been watching Caylee for 1 1/2 to 2 years (statement)
Started watching Caylee about end of April 2006 at Jeff Hopkins and within the past 1 1/2 years at ZFG apartment. This coincides with Rev. Grund's statement regarding when he first heard of ZG.
The fictional Jeff Hopkins supposedly lived in Avalon Park out towards Bithlo, east of Fusian. This happens to be where Andy F. lived (she spent the night with him June 30 / July 1), as did friend Sean H. (just a few houses away).
Has known her for six years (IM's with Iassan).
Watched Jeff Hopkin's fictional son Zachary. Jeff introduced KC to ZFG. (interview #2)
The fictional Juliette Lewis's equally fictional daughter played with Caylee at ZFG's apartment. ZFG may have watched Lewis's child as well. (IM's between KC and l7tone)

Other:


Seasonal employee at Universal (interview #2)
Went to University of Florida (interview #2)
Drives 2008 silver Ford Focus purchased by step-dad (email from Lee)
Apparantly has some money, based on witness interviews relating what KC said to them.

Coincidences?:


Caylee's body was found within feet of the property boundary of one property belonging to a divorcee who used to have the last name "Gonzalez" and another property rented by a "Zenaida".
Katie Sue R., an employee of Sawgrass Apartments, stalled and then flatly refused to give LE an interview regarding whether she knew of any friends Casey Anthony had at Sawgrass.

After refusing to give an interview, she advised Corp Eric Edwards that Vicky A. lived at Sawgrass complex and was "a good friend of Casey's."

Vicky has friends/relatives named...
RAQUEL
JASMIN
VICTOR
SAMANTHA

Both Katie Sue R. and Vicky A. are listed as prosecution witnesses.


Interesting to note that Katie and Vickyh are prosecution witnessess yet we have not seen any interview of them. Hmmmmm:waitasec:

Thanks JWG for putting this together!!

masyann
05-10-2009, 02:38 AM
I hate recycling my own content, but I think it can be valuable to have a complete profile of the fictional nanny in one place. I added a little bit more information based on recent discussions. Thanks to eddiva for highlighting the Avalon connection. Updates in red.

Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez (KC's fictional nannie's name)

Vitals: (all taken from first interview unless otherwise noted)


25 Years old
5' 7" (5'6" to 5'7" - email from Lee)
140 lbs
Dark brown curly hair
Brown eyes
Mixed race: Black and Puerto Rican
Tan complexion (email from Lee)
No visible tatoos in 2-piece bathing suit (email from Lee)
Birthday in September


Family:


Mother: Gloria Gonzalez, 55 (email from Lee)
Step-dad: Victor Fernandez (email from Lee)
No children (interview #2)
Has brother and sister (1st interview)
Sister is Samantha, 1-2 years older, not sure if last name is different (email from Lee)

Roommates:


Raquel Farrell - hostess at Friday's (email from Lee)
Jennifer Rosa - works for ABC Distribution catalog in Orlando (email from Lee)

Residence:
From interview #1:


Moved to FL from New York. Tony was talking about moving to NY. Sawgrass ZG drives a car with NY plates.

Lived at apartment off Bumby and Robinson until about middle of 2007. The location turns out to be an "old folk's home" across the street from RM's. It is interesting to note that RM met KC in June 2007 and moved to his apartment in Orlando in Aug. 2007...the "middle of 2007."
From middle of 2007 to some time in the first six months of 2008 she lived at her mom's house "off Michigan just over Conway". This is near the BoA she passed Amy's check at. Also kinda near a real ZG. But most interesting, there is a person with the mother's name that in fact lives "off Michigan just over Conway".
Last lived at Sawgrass on Conway Rd., apartment #210 - moved there "just recently this year". The apartment had been vacant for several months and happened to be above the model apartment shown to prospective tenants. Sawgrass ZG looked at model apartment 6/17.


From interview #2 (after fessing up that she'd been lying):

Lived at Alafaya Club Apartments when KC first met her. Says a good friend from high school still lives there (male). These apartments are near JG and TR, - about half way in between.
More recently she was renting a house in Andover Lakes, off Dean and Curry Ford. This is fairly close to Lake Vaj, possibly area where she was at one point going to get a home or condo?

Babysitting: (from 1st interview unless otherwise noted)


Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
Has been watching Caylee for 1 1/2 to 2 years (statement)
Started watching Caylee about end of April 2006 at Jeff Hopkins and within the past 1 1/2 years at ZFG apartment. This coincides with Rev. Grund's statement regarding when he first heard of ZG.
The fictional Jeff Hopkins supposedly lived in Avalon Park out towards Bithlo, east of Fusian. This happens to be where Andy F. lived (she spent the night with him June 30 / July 1), as did friend Sean H. (just a few houses away).
Has known her for six years (IM's with Iassan).
Watched Jeff Hopkin's fictional son Zachary. Jeff introduced KC to ZFG. (interview #2)
The fictional Juliette Lewis's equally fictional daughter played with Caylee at ZFG's apartment. ZFG may have watched Lewis's child as well. (IM's between KC and l7tone)

Other:


Seasonal employee at Universal (interview #2)
Went to University of Florida (interview #2)
Drives 2008 silver Ford Focus purchased by step-dad (email from Lee)
Apparantly has some money, based on witness interviews relating what KC said to them.

Coincidences?:


Caylee's body was found within feet of the property boundary of one property belonging to a divorcee who used to have the last name "Gonzalez" and another property rented by a "Zenaida".
Katie Sue R., an employee of Sawgrass Apartments, stalled and then flatly refused to give LE an interview regarding whether she knew of any friends Casey Anthony had at Sawgrass.

After refusing to give an interview, she advised Corp Eric Edwards that Vicky A. lived at Sawgrass complex and was "a good friend of Casey's."

Vicky has friends/relatives named...
RAQUEL
JASMIN
VICTOR
SAMANTHA

Both Katie Sue R. and Vicky A. are listed as prosecution witnesses.



Thank you You are so organized. :blowkiss: I really enjoy this thread very interesting. I enjoy you alls sluthing on this subject.
I did not know Katie Sue R and Vicky A. were on the witnesses list. very interesting

JWG
05-10-2009, 10:05 AM
Here is a copy of the witness list that was made public January 26 - by JB in a motion he filed Jan. 23 2009 for sanctions on the prosecution. His Exhibit was the prosecution's witness list of Dec. 3, 2008.

3685

Valhall
05-10-2009, 10:55 AM
I'm not trying to get in the middle of anything, but I actually think mitzi is trying to point out that chloroform can't be ruled out at this time. I took her post as a reply (in another thread) to some one who had taken the last doc dump to mean chloroform testing would not be done. I believe she was just trying to correct that by showing the testing is being done by another lab, but not released yet.

Just my 2 cents.

Hot Dogs
05-10-2009, 11:05 AM
Coincidences?:


Caylee's body was found within feet of the property boundary of one property belonging to a divorcee who used to have the last name "Gonzalez" and another property rented by a "Zenaida".


I've never been able to get a handle on what it would mean for this to not be a coincidence. Did she choose the nanny's name based on the place she had already decided to dump the body? Or, did she choose the dump location based on the nanny name she had already come up with? It seems that one of those must be true if this is not a coincidence.

If it isn't a coincidence, it also seems to profoundly change what one would think about the Sawgrass situation.

nyvictoria
05-10-2009, 11:24 AM
I believe Mitzi's post was in response to my post, in which I stated they did not test for Chloroform. I took no offense at all. Rather, I welcomed the additional information.

Duckley
05-10-2009, 11:36 AM
There's always another possibility. Zanny the Nanny might have been an in-joke between KC and say, Lee that was her nickhame for CA. If CA has xanax in her medicine cabinet (and regardless of what I think of her I'd be popping pills living with that group) she might have been the impetus; after all she probably watched Cayleed "90% of the time". Perhaps it had its roots in the little children's book that's been mentioned. KC could have easily read that as a child and then thought a humorous twist would be to call her mother "the nanny" and Zanny the Nanny if her mom had a xanax prescription. I can see KC and LA thinking of all kinds of little secret code nicknames for their parents; I know my sisters and I had ones we used for ours.

That certainly could have been how it started - became a convenient status thing when telling her friends (employed or going to college), and then once she needed an actual name to go with it, she could have used ZG (and if it turns out she herself is ZG22 so much the better). They are all built around the z connection.

I think Zanny is a compilation of many people in KC's mind, including Cindy. Replace the word Zanny with Cindy - and consider her description about the kidnapping story at Blanchard. For example:

Zanny (Cindy) took Caylee - reflects Cindy's threat to take custody
Zanny (Cindy) gave me instructions to follow - Cindy always told KC what to do
Zanny (Cindy) took Caylee to teach me a lesson - no doubt Cindy would have liked to teach KC a lesson.

I think KC blames Cindy for the death of Caylee and it could be that the story she told about Zanny became Cindy under this circumstance.

At other times Zanny is perhaps KC's imagined ideal caregiver - perhaps herself, perhaps Jesse, Amy ... whomever.

She made up the story and embellished it over the years. Zanny represented her ability, as you suggest to continue the "working" facade, enabled her to spend the night elsewhere, go away for the week-end - no questions asked. Zanny gave her freedom.

I remain confused about the name - ZFG. I agree that the name is likley a compilation of names she had heard separately or together but the Sawgrass thing is bugging me. I cant beleive that it was a coincidence, but I have no explanation that the very same name that KC used for the imaginanny was also a name at Sawgrass.

chefmom
05-10-2009, 12:02 PM
I've never been able to get a handle on what it would mean for this to not be a coincidence. Did she choose the nanny's name based on the place she had already decided to dump the body? Or, did she choose the dump location based on the nanny name she had already come up with? It seems that one of those must be true if this is not a coincidence.

If it isn't a coincidence, it also seems to profoundly change what one would think about the Sawgrass situation.

I can tell you this, I do not see how the defense is going to convince a jury that all of the coincidences in this case are just coincidence. There are soooo many things that JB, KC, and the A's expect the public to just accept as coincidence that it is mind boggling. I could give you one thing being a coincidence, but not a dozen!

CBTampa
05-10-2009, 12:04 PM
http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_Casey-cupid-com052008.htm

I went in and looked at this profile that was created on 5/20/08 by KC. on Cupid. It is so hard to believe if KC had this frame of mind in May, what could have happened to her between than and June 16th. ? She doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care about her daughter. Maybe this was all lies too. I know that when people post on these sites that they are not always honest, but why mention your daughter if you think that she might be a problem forming a relationship with someone new? You could always bring that up later. Tony and her new circle of friends?

sunflowerchick
05-10-2009, 12:05 PM
I have found that in situations like this, there are no coincidences.

chefmom
05-10-2009, 12:17 PM
http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_Casey-cupid-com052008.htm

I went in and looked at this profile that was created on 5/20/08 by KC. on Cupid. It is so hard to believe if KC had this frame of mind in May, what could have happened to her between than and June 16th. ? She doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care about her daughter. Maybe this was all lies too. I know that when people post on these sites that they are not always honest, but why mention your daughter if you think that she might be a problem forming a relationship with someone new? You could always bring that up later.

It reads to me as though she was simply putting down the things she thought people wanted to hear and that made her sound like a "good catch". Of course, IMO, this is probably how she sees herself, as a loving, doting mother, a sensible, down-to-earth gal. But, even CA had called her a sociopath, stated that she was always stealing. These things don't exactly go hand-in-hand with her profile of herself.

chefmom
05-10-2009, 12:18 PM
I have found that in situations like this, there are no coincidences.

Exactly!

Meemom
05-10-2009, 02:48 PM
I can tell you this, I do not see how the defense is going to convince a jury that all of the coincidences in this case are just coincidence. There are soooo many things that JB, KC, and the A's expect the public to just accept as coincidence that it is mind boggling. I could give you one thing being a coincidence, but not a dozen!

Speaking of coincidences and whether KC is really Zanny- please go back and look at this thread on possibly who KC used as a template for ZFG -

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76539

There is so much info that relates to Vicky A. that KC used for her description of ZFG. More coincidences???? Even though Dante got on WS and blasted that Vicky had no direct connection to KC (and I do believe that she had NOTHING to do with Caylee!), I found it very interesting that both Vicky A. and Katie Sue R. are on the SA's witness list-

http://www.filedropper.com/statewitnesslistmarch09redacted

I have not been able to find their interviews either- if anyone has a link, please post it. Thanks!

JWG
05-10-2009, 03:12 PM
I've never been able to get a handle on what it would mean for this to not be a coincidence. Did she choose the nanny's name based on the place she had already decided to dump the body? Or, did she choose the dump location based on the nanny name she had already come up with? It seems that one of those must be true if this is not a coincidence.

If it isn't a coincidence, it also seems to profoundly change what one would think about the Sawgrass situation.

I agree. Right now I am more than inclined to leave it in the coincidence bucket.

justsaying
05-10-2009, 03:27 PM
I agree. Right now I am more than inclined to leave it in the coincidence bucket.
I am so agreeing with the partial coincidence theory. I think she picked the ZG name to tell RG way back to create the illusion of a real nanny. Then she had friends at Sawgrass and probably even helped out in the office sometimes, as she seemed to insert herself helpfully into people's lives. Then the coincidence of a real ZG showing up to look at an apartment. Files info away in little brain for future use. Then the kidnapping story - kc style to add lots of detail to make the stories so much more the truth - she adds the Fernandez with a hyphen. More details, more real. I just see her using lots of odd information from a lifetime of storing little bits and pieces to weave stories. And I think the real ZG not ZFG was just a coincidence that KC took full advantage of. But one coincidence doesn't sink this guilty ship in my view. What cha' think?

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm not trying to get in the middle of anything, but I actually think mitzi is trying to point out that chloroform can't be ruled out at this time. I took her post as a reply (in another thread) to some one who had taken the last doc dump to mean chloroform testing would not be done. I believe she was just trying to correct that by showing the testing is being done by another lab, but not released yet.

Just my 2 cents.

LMAO When I first saw them big ole red letters, my first thought was, "Wow something I don't have to strain to read". Then I member the very first time I changed the fonts size---it was huge when it posted. Not tryin to start nuttin either.

It's all good. We need a d-dump. Maybe some activity from the A home front. Hey, Somebody told us that there isn't anythang about the A's on LK's home page. Went and looked and sur nuff---they ain't there anymore.

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 03:41 PM
I've never been able to get a handle on what it would mean for this to not be a coincidence. Did she choose the nanny's name based on the place she had already decided to dump the body? Or, did she choose the dump location based on the nanny name she had already come up with? It seems that one of those must be true if this is not a coincidence.

If it isn't a coincidence, it also seems to profoundly change what one would think about the Sawgrass situation.

Am lost---why would it change?

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 03:48 PM
I think Zanny is a compilation of many people in KC's mind, including Cindy. Replace the word Zanny with Cindy - and consider her description about the kidnapping story at Blanchard. For example:

Zanny (Cindy) took Caylee - reflects Cindy's threat to take custody
Zanny (Cindy) gave me instructions to follow - Cindy always told KC what to do
Zanny (Cindy) took Caylee to teach me a lesson - no doubt Cindy would have liked to teach KC a lesson.

I think KC blames Cindy for the death of Caylee and it could be that the story she told about Zanny became Cindy under this circumstance.

At other times Zanny is perhaps KC's imagined ideal caregiver - perhaps herself, perhaps Jesse, Amy ... whomever.

She made up the story and embellished it over the years. Zanny represented her ability, as you suggest to continue the "working" facade, enabled her to spend the night elsewhere, go away for the week-end - no questions asked. Zanny gave her freedom.

I remain confused about the name - ZFG. I agree that the name is likley a compilation of names she had heard separately or together but the Sawgrass thing is bugging me. I cant beleive that it was a coincidence, but I have no explanation that the very same name that KC used for the imaginanny was also a name at Sawgrass.
:clap::clap::clap:

Very nice and insightful post. I think you got it. I have always said that she had a collection of zannys thru out her life and you post opened that up in my brain. Thanks so much.

Wished we had a place for Insightful post. There are so many "right on the money" that kinda puts a huge piece of the puzzle into the place.

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 03:58 PM
http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_Casey-cupid-com052008.htm

I went in and looked at this profile that was created on 5/20/08 by KC. on Cupid. It is so hard to believe if KC had this frame of mind in May, what could have happened to her between than and June 16th. ? She doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care about her daughter. Maybe this was all lies too. I know that when people post on these sites that they are not always honest, but why mention your daughter if you think that she might be a problem forming a relationship with someone new? You could always bring that up later. Tony and her new circle of friends?

Well, hmmmmm---maybe KC lived in 2 different worlds, in her head. the real and the fantasy and maybe the fantasy part of her head just took over. Maybe she liked the fantasy better. Maybe the separation of the 2 happened one night when she got so mad at CA and killed Caylee out of pure rage---pop gits in the fantasy and runs from the real.
??????????????? Am reachin. LOL

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 04:03 PM
OK-Where e-body go?
You see my ole bear? Thats how I feel. LMAO

nyvictoria
05-10-2009, 04:09 PM
OK-Where e-body go?
You see my ole bear? Thats how I feel. LMAO

Aw MAMA, you havin' a bad day? I hope not! Happy Mother's Day!!

:blowkiss:

jjgram
05-10-2009, 04:24 PM
OK-Where e-body go?
You see my ole bear? Thats how I feel. LMAO

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Thanks for loving your children !

Thanks for Not Killing them.... !!!!!

H A P P Y ~ M O T H E R S ~ D A Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Jmo

God Bless !
jjgram

debbie0604
05-10-2009, 04:38 PM
I think that KC chose the name Zanni and used it for awhile (maybe for xanex.. although I go back and forth whether or not she was actually drugging Caylee). I'm not convinced of that yet. I think that she used Hispanic names for the babysitter to convince her parents of the "babysitter kidnapping story" because she knew her mother didn't like hispanics. I think she may have hyphenated the name ZFG because she saw the name ZG at Sawgrass apts "somehow" (although I don't know how) and used that name but added the F to throw off LE.

When I listened to the 911 tape for the very first time, I noticed that she gives the name of the babysitter in a very odd way.. she states the name very distinctly and in a flat monotone.. as if she's making it up as she's going along....(same thing in her first interview with Mr. Melich)...

Too much of a coincidence that there was a ZG at Sawgrass and she used this name as well to me.. JMO

MAMABEAR
05-10-2009, 04:40 PM
Aw MAMA, you havin' a bad day? I hope not! Happy Mother's Day!!

:blowkiss:

AWWWWW. Thanks. Having a great day--am here. Happy Mother's Day 2 all you muddas. LOL:blowkiss:

mitzi
05-10-2009, 11:34 PM
I'm not trying to get in the middle of anything, but I actually think mitzi is trying to point out that chloroform can't be ruled out at this time. I took her post as a reply (in another thread) to some one who had taken the last doc dump to mean chloroform testing would not be done. I believe she was just trying to correct that by showing the testing is being done by another lab, but not released yet.

Just my 2 cents.

I like your 2 cents, Valhall :blowkiss: ...that is exactly why I was doing.

mitzi
05-10-2009, 11:36 PM
I believe Mitzi's post was in response to my post, in which I stated they did not test for Chloroform. I took no offense at all. Rather, I welcomed the additional information.

Thankyou also, victoria...appreciate it. I only bolded and enlarged because I wanted that part of the article noticed. I know when I read it, I thought :woohoo:

Woe.be.gone
05-11-2009, 06:27 PM
Does anyone know why the initial report by LE states that the Sawgrass people checked the data bases for visitors with the name ZG and pulled one up that had visited Sawgrass on April 17, 2008?

Has this conflict been sleuthed out/explained? How did the date change to June 17?

I noticed this a week or so ago and it keeps bugging me.

debs
05-11-2009, 06:55 PM
Does anyone know why the initial report by LE states that the Sawgrass people checked the data bases for visitors with the name ZG and pulled one up that had visited Sawgrass on April 17, 2008?

Has this conflict been sleuthed out/explained? How did the date change to June 17?

I noticed this a week or so ago and it keeps bugging me.

It was an error on the part of whoever was filling out the report, or so it has been explained.

Chiquita71
05-11-2009, 09:35 PM
Hello WS

Okay. I read the zanni timeline thead, another I can't remember the name of and this one because the idea that a REAL ZG showed up at SGA on June17th is driving me crazy. I hit a point during one of these three Zanny threads where I "understood" that the answer could be as simple as "Casey is the ZG that went to SGA on the 17th"-that thought came to me after WSers posted re: June16th when LE went to investigate they took with them 12 pictures of someone...

It made me think: yes! Casey just went there the day after the "deed" and (as I agree with most of this thread ZG is her long running aka) used her fake ZG persona to inquire about the apartment. Maybe even thinking ahead that she was going to "pin" this on ZG and had to leave a "papertrail." (But that bothers me because I also agree with WSers who say Casey wasn't this organized or whathaveyou).

But, that only makes it even more strange that a REAL ZG would be claiming that SHE was also there on June17th?

How did this go WS? If the card ZG filled out(or was filled out by the manager as she spoke) had a phone number that was disconnected(yes?)then how did LE end up contacting the ZG that says she was there on June17th? Do we know?

Thank you

....jmo...

Chiquita71
05-12-2009, 03:54 PM
Hello WS:)


I hope its okay if this gets posted here, I think it shows deeply that ZG/the nanny does not exist-unless it's casey-omg...I have my threads confused but it is here we talk about the 12 pictures LE showed to the manager of SGA, yes? I just wanted to say if its okay: the real ZG states to LE that she was contacted on July16th. Again, with my question on my last post...how did LE know to go see THAT ZG? I can see that they must have gone to SGA because Casey sent them there: I agree that "realZG" could not have been known till after speaking to the office at sga and seeing the card that was filled out-but-with the phone number being disconnected how did they get ahold of ZG on the 17th?

And, if LE went to see other ZG(F)what ruled them out? I mean they are all ruled out because they had nothing to do with Caylee's deminse...but this one ZG said to LE: (paraphrased) No, I do not know CaseyA or her daughter but yes, I was at SGA. Now, I do not want to assume that the real ZG did make that statement: that is why I am looking for it. I wonder if LE and ZG were surprised at the 'coincidence'?

SUPPLEMENT #1 - INCIDENT REPORT (07/16/08):

Over the course of the next several weeks, myself along with several other detectives and investigators began to speak to several people who may help us find the missing Caylee or help identify Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. Detectives who spoke with people who could provide us with some information wrote suppliments to this report. As of this writing, there is no one aside from the defendant herself who ever saw or spoke with the "nanny" Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.

On July 17, Detective Jerold White obtained a court order for the defendant's cell phone records (407-619-9286). Inspection of these reords show no numbers belonging to a Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez, Jeffery Hopkins (in Jacksonville, Florida), or Juliette Lewis. As to the "private phone call" received on July 15th around 1200 hrs where the defendant claims to have spoken to Caylee, there is no incoming call to her cell phone at that time. The closest two incoming phone calls to her phone came in at 0013 hrs from Anthony Lazzaro and the next at 1535 hrs. from someone named "Kyle".


The defendant claims that while employed with Kodak, her manager was Mike Cozak. She claimed that Jeffery (Hopkins) and Juliette (Lewis) also worked there. I spoke with Dee Crawford, Director of Human Resources for Event Imaging solutions Group (aka Kodak) who confirmed that Mike Cozak had worked for them, but there are no employment records for any Jeffery Hopkins or Juliette Lewis. On July 30th I would call and speak with Mike Cozak who confirmed Casey worked with him in 2005, but he could remember no Jeffery Hopkins or Juliette Lewis.

The defendant says Kodak was taken over by Colorvision in 2006. I spoke with Dianne Tighe, vice president of Human Resources for Colorvision and asked if any of the above mentioned people worked for them. Diane Tighe says that neither Jeffery Hopkins, Juliette Lewis or the defendant ever worked for Colorvison.

The defendent says that Zenaida's roommate Raquel Farrell was a hostess at (TGI) Friday's. I contacted Rich Garrad, corporate recruiting specialist of Carlson Restaurants Worldwide who own the TGI friday stores, who confirmed that they do not have nor have had in the past an employee named Raquel Farrell. He tried several versions and spellings of this name, still with no results.

On July 29th, Lee Anthony provided Det. Cpl. Eric Edwards a copy of some of the defendant's email. At the end of this email thread, was what appeared to be a forwarded email from a "Thomas Franck" about a Universal event.


Orange County Sheriff's Office
Arrest Affidavit - Casey Marie Anthony
Date of Arrest: 07/16/2008 16:33:00
Case # 08-CF-10925
Discovery Documents Set#2 (Pages 64-65)

SUPPLEMENT #1 - INCIDENT REPORT (07/16/08):

The forwarded email was written to appear as if Thomas was telling this defendant about an up and coming Universal event and what time to appear for said event. The email address for Thomas Franck was listed as Thomas.Franck@events.universal.com. I sent an email to this address and received an automatic reply indicating that the "domain name of the recipient address is invalid" meaning it does not exist. I checked the name and email address with Leonard Turtora, the Invstigator at Universal I spoke with earlier above. He said Thomas Franck was not a Universal employee and that their Server Technology Department has never heard of "@events.universal.com" as one of their email addresses. As of this writing, I am currently trying to identify other email addresses listed and see if these people exist.

As of this writing, this agency has fielded and followed up on hundreds of tips. None of these tips have helped in corroborating any of the defendant's claims. None of the defendant's statements regarding Caylee's disappearance have been confirmed whatsoever. To date, almost all her statements regarding this have been proven as false.

Caylee Anthony remains missing.


...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

~ Amy ~
05-13-2009, 02:58 AM
Wasn't there an April 17th date that was mentioned early on about ZG visiting SGA? Is it possible that the real ZG was there in April , and someone posing as ZG was there in June?

Ripley007
05-13-2009, 03:29 AM
Wasn't there an April 17th date that was mentioned early on about ZG visiting SGA? Is it possible that the real ZG was there in April , and someone posing as ZG was there in June?

It's my understanding that "the real Sawgrass ZG" toured SG Apts and filled out the guest card 6/17/09.

Chiquita71
05-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Hello WS :)


http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_ArrestSup-No12_081208.htm

(above is link where what follows can be found in full: Thanks to acandyrose.com)

Ms. Macklin continued her written statement by writing: "I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I do not. I checked for her information in our database and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008. She had expressed interest in a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment for herself and 'Jasmine and Michelle." I informed the detective of this and let him know we lost contact with her because her telephone number had been disconnected.

(My note: On NG ZG said LE made initial contact with her via her cell phone. They must have found her number).


I asked Mr. Garcia if he could produce the original guest card. He retrieved the guest card from an office file. I asked him to examine the document and asked him if he was sure he filled out the form and if he was sure of the date of the Ms. Gonzalez visit. Mr Garcia told me he filled out the form and confirmed he recognized his handwriting. Mr. Garcia wrote: "I am sure of her date of visit because our standard operating procedure is for us to fill out the guest card in the presence of the visitor. I wrote the names of Jasmine and Michelle on the form because Ms. Gonzalez told me her children would be living here with her." Mr Garcia offered, after examining the guest card, he believed he conducted the visitation with Ms. Gonzalez in Spanish. He told me he believed the visitation was conducted in Spanish because he wrote the names of the children in Spanish on the visitation document.
(Skip)

On August 7, 2008 I met with Detective Corporal Melich and briefed him regarding the aforementioned detail. He confirmed sworn testimony had already been obtained from Ms. Gonzales regarding the visitation to the Sawgrass complex.

(End)

...jmo...I:blowkiss:Websleuths

chckmate22
05-13-2009, 06:40 PM
YM: It’s a question of….
TL: Did I ever see it?
YM: Well, not only that, but I’m sure you’ve also heard on the news it’s not only Zanax that we’re concerned about. It’s also Chloroform. And they all, and we all know that Chloroform is something that you can, you get high off of. You know, it’s not that hard to get off the Internet. Everyone can order it. Before we get surprised by something we, we need to hear it from you if uh, you know, your group is into the, you know, obviously you know, zani bars isn’t that uncommon, especially over in uh…
TL: Right.
YM: In Full Sail. You know it’s either zani bars or weed, one of the two.

I think Zani was just a catchy name that fell into place with the outlandish story that KC made up.....

shgrbkr
05-14-2009, 11:12 AM
When CA stated on LKL that maybe KC wasn't working so she could spend more time with Caylee---isn't that akin to saying There was NO NANNY?? They don't seem to bring up the nanny scenario much anymore.

TallyHo
05-14-2009, 11:28 AM
When CA stated on LKL that maybe KC wasn't working so she could spend more time with Caylee---isn't that akin to saying There was NO NANNY?? They don't seem to bring up the nanny scenario much anymore.

Fantastic point. I just finished listening to the LKL interview and just heard that quote a few minutes ago and I am just at a lack for words... :furious: Also note that she thinks that Casey was only arrested because she lied about her employment. Huh??? Try again - Casey was arrested because she lied about a nonexistent nanny kidnapping her missing child. Another thing that really hit me was that CA/GA have a suspect in mind. Pure speculation on my part, but I think Jessie G. better be getting ready for war. I think they are going to claim that he was the killer. But then they're going to have a fun time explaining why she would have been looking for Jessie in Fusion. Anyway, this has been a very interesting thread, and it is going to be very, very interesting to see how it all pans out.

jjgram
05-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Wasn't there an April 17th date that was mentioned early on about ZG visiting SGA? Is it possible that the real ZG was there in April , and someone posing as ZG was there in June?[/I]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I wish and hope that that could possibly be true ! ! !

But
I think that the real ZG that has the law suit against KC
did verify that she did indeed go to the actual apt SG on
the date of June 17th

SEE>>>> KC :liar::liar::liar
::cool:
:Banane30: Zanny took CAYLE @ Sawgrass
:banane58: Zanny/Nanny took CAYLEE to the BEACH
Zanny took CAYLEE to Disney World...
:Banane57: Zanny few off into the sunset never to be seen
:Banane15: a g a i n............ oh where o h ~ where can Zanny be ?????
:confused::confused::confused: :Banane12: behind door #1
:Banane12: or is it DOOR #2
:Banane12: or is it ZZZanny the NNNanny behind door #3

:Banane23: or did the R E A L ZANNY ~ head back to PR to her home???

Well ~ The truth here would be welcome !
KC Just tell the T R U T H ! ! !

Little Angel CAYLEE is Indeed Dead Now...
Let this End... Stand Up be a Real WOMAN and tell the
Truth...
CAYLEE did NOT Do One Single Thing To DESERVE THIS ! ! !
Lies, Lies, and More Lies from the Anthony family.
I'm not sure how any of them could possibly live with themselves ! :confused:

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

justsaying
05-14-2009, 12:04 PM
Fantastic point. I just finished listening to the LKL interview and just heard that quote a few minutes ago and I am just at a lack for words... :furious: Also note that she thinks that Casey was only arrested because she lied about her employment. Huh??? Try again - Casey was arrested because she lied about a nonexistent nanny kidnapping her missing child. Another thing that really hit me was that CA/GA have a suspect in mind. Pure speculation on my part, but I think Jessie G. better be getting ready for war. I think they are going to claim that he was the killer. But then they're going to have a fun time explaining why she would have been looking for Jessie in Fusion. Anyway, this has been a very interesting thread, and it is going to be very, very interesting to see how it all pans out.

I was struck immediately by the absence of the nanny in any answer by CA. Time to reinvent reality again - lying about working to spend more time with Caylee? Unless CA was really on her back about getting a job, she could just stay home and be with Caylee, yes? None of this made any sense. But, there I go again - trying to make some sense of these answers, silly ol' me.

Just Jayla
05-14-2009, 12:11 PM
Wasn't there an April 17th date that was mentioned early on about ZG visiting SGA? Is it possible that the real ZG was there in April , and someone posing as ZG was there in June?

Amy, I am so glad you wrote this because I remember that, too-but I was starting to think I just must have pulled that out of my....hat. It is concensus now that it was June, but I will have to search around to see where April 17 came from.

TallyHo
05-14-2009, 12:24 PM
I was struck immediately by the absence of the nanny in any answer by CA. Time to reinvent reality again - lying about working to spend more time with Caylee? Unless CA was really on her back about getting a job, she could just stay home and be with Caylee, yes? None of this made any sense. But, there I go again - trying to make some sense of these answers, silly ol' me.

Me too - guess we're all just silly!! Just try to examine the logic of the things CA told us last night via LKL:

Casey was arrested because she lied to LE about her lack of employment

and..

Casey lied about her lack of employment to spend more time with Caylee

so therefore...

she was partying in Fusion looking for Zanny and coping with her grief

except that...

she was really working that night.

:waitasec: Huh??????

Valhall
05-14-2009, 08:30 PM
Me too - guess we're all just silly!! Just try to examine the logic of the things CA told us last night via LKL:



:waitasec: Huh??????

and there was only one picture of her partying after Caylee went missing - the one where she was in a blue dress. Of course, I can't tell which ONE of the dozen pics of KC in the blue dress CA's referring to, but that's the only one.

Ripley007
05-15-2009, 02:58 AM
Fantastic point. I just finished listening to the LKL interview and just heard that quote a few minutes ago and I am just at a lack for words... :furious: Also note that she thinks that Casey was only arrested because she lied about her employment. Huh??? Try again - Casey was arrested because she lied about a nonexistent nanny kidnapping her missing child. Another thing that really hit me was that CA/GA have a suspect in mind. Pure speculation on my part, but I think Jessie G. better be getting ready for war. I think they are going to claim that he was the killer. But then they're going to have a fun time explaining why she would have been looking for Jessie in Fusion. Anyway, this has been a very interesting thread, and it is going to be very, very interesting to see how it all pans out.

I could care less about what trouble the A's are trying to stir up for KC's friends. If one has NOTHING to hide, then there's Nothing to hide. Period!

Jesse doesn't need forwarned, he has consistantly spoke nothing but the truth.

The A's are desperate, pathetic individuals IMHO.

Just Jayla
05-15-2009, 09:22 AM
Wasn't there an April 17th date that was mentioned early on about ZG visiting SGA? Is it possible that the real ZG was there in April , and someone posing as ZG was there in June?

It looks like April 17 might have been a type-o on police reports, and the gentleman from SG apartments had to correct police and told them that per the card, it was June 17:

From http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17122200/detail.html

"A leasing manager who filed out the card confirmed to deputies that Gonzalez visited on June 17 and not April 17, which was written on the arrest reports."

shgrbkr
05-15-2009, 09:35 AM
and there was only one picture of her partying after Caylee went missing - the one where she was in a blue dress. Of course, I can't tell which ONE of the dozen pics of KC in the blue dress CA's referring to, but that's the only one.

Of course!! Since there was only one picture, she must have only gone out partying one time.

If there's a dog, there must be a Zanny.

LambChop
05-15-2009, 09:37 AM
and there was only one picture of her partying after Caylee went missing - the one where she was in a blue dress. Of course, I can't tell which ONE of the dozen pics of KC in the blue dress CA's referring to, but that's the only one.

There are actually other pictures, one was shown on Issues last night with KC in a black dress sitting with AL in a club which had to have been taken after Caylee went missing.

LambChop
05-15-2009, 09:44 AM
I was struck immediately by the absence of the nanny in any answer by CA. Time to reinvent reality again - lying about working to spend more time with Caylee? Unless CA was really on her back about getting a job, she could just stay home and be with Caylee, yes? None of this made any sense. But, there I go again - trying to make some sense of these answers, silly ol' me.

KC wanted to party and in order to stay overnight with boyfriends she had to use the excuse of the Nanny. Working excuse gave her an opportunity to do what she wanted and have someone else watch her child. She knew that CA would make her stay home with Caylee if she was not working (you can see that by the way Cindy controls things) so KC used the Nanny excuse to her advantage. Look at when she had the Grund's watching Caylee and she was suppose to be working.....what was she doing all day??????? Wonder how many times Jesse has thought about where she was and what she was doing during this time because she was not with him!!!!!!!

TallyHo
05-15-2009, 11:07 AM
I could care less about what trouble the A's are trying to stir up for KC's friends. If one has NOTHING to hide, then there's Nothing to hide. Period!

Jesse doesn't need forwarned, he has consistantly spoke nothing but the truth.

The A's are desperate, pathetic individuals IMHO.


I agree that Jessie has done nothing wrong at all. It's just that I think he knows the most about the inner workings of the Anthony family and the relationship between Cindy and Casey, which I think did play a part in what happened to Caylee. I think that this is why he has to be discredited, in their eyes. And obviously I think he knows a lot about what Casey has been up to, which I think may be the reason Casey told her parents she didn't trust him and didn't want to be near him. She still communicated with him a lot (as evidenced by the cell phone log) and he seems to really know them better than a lot of people in her life (TonE, Ric, Amy etc, etc). They tried to throw suspicion on Jessie at the very beginning and admitted again that they still have (an unnamed) suspect in mind, but the just don't have any proof as of yet. My opinion is that it is still Jessie they're going to go after -of course that's strictly my own $.02 worth!!:) And he probably really doesn't need to be forwarned, because I think he already knows!!!

TotallyObsessed
05-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Fantastic point. I just finished listening to the LKL interview and just heard that quote a few minutes ago and I am just at a lack for words... :furious: Also note that she thinks that Casey was only arrested because she lied about her employment. Huh??? Try again - Casey was arrested because she lied about a nonexistent nanny kidnapping her missing child. Another thing that really hit me was that CA/GA have a suspect in mind. Pure speculation on my part, but I think Jessie G. better be getting ready for war. I think they are going to claim that he was the killer. But then they're going to have a fun time explaining why she would have been looking for Jessie in Fusion. Anyway, this has been a very interesting thread, and it is going to be very, very interesting to see how it all pans out.

I think you are possibly right (see bold above) BUT......JG is not being charged by LE. That's the difference. JB could well use JG as part of his defense of the murderer, but it will only be to create reasonable doubt. JG will get no backlash from LE on the fabrications of CA.

weasel
05-15-2009, 12:53 PM
What I don't understand is, why GA and CA never questioned Casey about why she lied about having a job for 2 years. I guess it's because "they never got to con... talk to her the way they wanted to". Okay.

chefmom
05-15-2009, 01:15 PM
I agree that Jessie has done nothing wrong at all. It's just that I think he knows the most about the inner workings of the Anthony family and the relationship between Cindy and Casey, which I think did play a part in what happened to Caylee. I think that this is why he has to be discredited, in their eyes. And obviously I think he knows a lot about what Casey has been up to, which I think may be the reason Casey told her parents she didn't trust him and didn't want to be near him. She still communicated with him a lot (as evidenced by the cell phone log) and he seems to really know them better than a lot of people in her life (TonE, Ric, Amy etc, etc). They tried to throw suspicion on Jessie at the very beginning and admitted again that they still have (an unnamed) suspect in mind, but the just don't have any proof as of yet. My opinion is that it is still Jessie they're going to go after -of course that's strictly my own $.02 worth!!:) And he probably really doesn't need to be forwarned, because I think he already knows!!!

Ok! See, here's what bugs me about them having the nerve to insinuate that they had a "suspect" in mind. IF, I thought for one second that there was someone running around that might even have had the slightest connection to the murder of my grandchild, I would be up LE's you-know-what until they could satisfy me that this person was not involved! I wouldn't be going around pointing the finger at someone that had already been cleared. And I certainly wouldn't be putting my mug on television every chance I got.

chefmom
05-15-2009, 01:19 PM
What I don't understand is, why GA and CA never questioned Casey about why she lied about having a job for 2 years. I guess it's because "they never got to con... talk to her the way they wanted to". Okay.

Because they were just so proud of her! I mean, come on! It takes a person with highly developed lying skills to fool everyone they know into thinking that they have this great job, great nanny, great relationships, great life. She was taught by the master, and CA couldn't be more proud. :rolleyes:

MAMABEAR
05-15-2009, 02:12 PM
So? Is KC the real Zenaida? Do ya'll think the State might bring all this out at trial? If they have figured out that KC is ZFG then why wouldn't they. They could show that she created this person and used it to blame for killing Caylee. I would love to see this type of thang come out in the trial.

justsaying
05-15-2009, 02:20 PM
Me too - guess we're all just silly!! Just try to examine the logic of the things CA told us last night via LKL:

Casey was arrested because she lied to LE about her lack of employment

and..

Casey lied about her lack of employment to spend more time with Caylee

so therefore...

she was partying in Fusion looking for Zanny and coping with her grief

except that...

she was really working that night.

:waitasec: Huh??????

If you listen really closely, you can hear my brain rattling around inside my spinning head. I do that a whole lot.

cecybeans
05-15-2009, 03:10 PM
If you listen really closely, you can hear my brain rattling around inside my spinning head. I do that a whole lot.

It happens to all of us when we visit the Land of Cindy Logic, where mistruths, half-truths and dichotomies are spun into cotton candy and sold for an outrageous profit. Who needs the House of Mirrors when we have such amazing verbal prestidigitation?

Meemom
05-15-2009, 04:00 PM
I still think that somewhere, buried in this investigation, is another investigation into idenity theft...if KC is ZFG22, it may have been her trying her hand at identity theft, and she have picked it up how from some aquaintances who were part of an identity theft ring, or may have gotten from them. There is way too much in the way of coincidences in this case.....JMO

Brini
05-15-2009, 04:18 PM
It's my understanding that "the real Sawgrass ZG" toured SG Apts and filled out the guest card 6/17/09.

And, Annie and a male friend ( I forgot the name) were living there, at the time. I still think KC ran across THAT Zenaida while visiting one or both of them.

LambChop
05-15-2009, 04:24 PM
Ok! See, here's what bugs me about them having the nerve to insinuate that they had a "suspect" in mind. IF, I thought for one second that there was someone running around that might even have had the slightest connection to the murder of my grandchild, I would be up LE's you-know-what until they could satisfy me that this person was not involved! I wouldn't be going around pointing the finger at someone that had already been cleared. And I certainly wouldn't be putting my mug on television every chance I got.


I find it hard to believe the BC is going along with this other "suspect" since he originally was on the ZFG wagon. I would think saying they had a suspect in mind would indicate someone other than ZFG since they can't prove she exists and will be easily proven in court. Where are his professional ethics??? You are absolutely right, if they have a suspect why haven't they gone to LE.

AZlawyer
05-15-2009, 05:06 PM
And, Annie and a male friend ( I forgot the name) were living there, at the time. I still think KC ran across THAT Zenaida while visiting one or both of them.

If you check the "The Real Dante S Stops By" thread, I think you will find that Annie had moved out of Dante's apartment at Sawgrass a long time before 6/17/09. And I believe Dante said KC hadn't visited him at Sawgrass since then.

Brini
05-15-2009, 06:29 PM
If you check the "The Real Dante S Stops By" thread, I think you will find that Annie had moved out of Dante's apartment at Sawgrass a long time before 6/17/09. And I believe Dante said KC hadn't visited him at Sawgrass since then.

Hmmm. ;-)

Duckley
05-15-2009, 08:17 PM
Hello WS :)


http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_ArrestSup-No12_081208.htm

(above is link where what follows can be found in full: Thanks to acandyrose.com)

Ms. Macklin continued her written statement by writing: "I was questioned as to whether or not I recognized the name of Zenaida Gonzalez, which I do not. I checked for her information in our database and found she had inquired about an apartment at Sawgrass apartments in June 2008. She had expressed interest in a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment for herself and 'Jasmine and Michelle." I informed the detective of this and let him know we lost contact with her because her telephone number had been disconnected.

(My note: On NG ZG said LE made initial contact with her via her cell phone. They must have found her number).


I asked Mr. Garcia if he could produce the original guest card. He retrieved the guest card from an office file. I asked him to examine the document and asked him if he was sure he filled out the form and if he was sure of the date of the Ms. Gonzalez visit. Mr Garcia told me he filled out the form and confirmed he recognized his handwriting. Mr. Garcia wrote: "I am sure of her date of visit because our standard operating procedure is for us to fill out the guest card in the presence of the visitor. I wrote the names of Jasmine and Michelle on the form because Ms. Gonzalez told me her children would be living here with her." Mr Garcia offered, after examining the guest card, he believed he conducted the visitation with Ms. Gonzalez in Spanish. He told me he believed the visitation was conducted in Spanish because he wrote the names of the children in Spanish on the visitation document.
(Skip)

On August 7, 2008 I met with Detective Corporal Melich and briefed him regarding the aforementioned detail. He confirmed sworn testimony had already been obtained from Ms. Gonzales regarding the visitation to the Sawgrass complex.

(End)

...jmo...I:blowkiss:Websleuths


Wow - i didn't realize the card contained info about ZG kids. Are these the names of her children? Didnt KC use these names when detailing info about the nanny?

Brini
05-15-2009, 09:28 PM
Wow - i didn't realize the card contained info about ZG kids. Are these the names of her children? Didnt KC use these names when detailing info about the nanny?

I think she assigned the kids, or three of the kids, to "Zanny's sister Sam."

It seems that KC stole pieces of other people's lives as a basis for her lives.

For instance, KC told some people that she had worked at Sports Authority. Apparently, that's where her friend Ryan had worked.

Just Jayla
05-15-2009, 10:01 PM
Thank you. That's about the timeframe I had. Do you think it's possible that LA is the one that went and got the copies on the ZG22 case on 8/18/08 and that subsequent to that, he started figuring something out?

More copies purchased on 04/10/2009.....Was this LE, or JM? Sleuther?

Just Jayla
05-15-2009, 10:13 PM
More copies purchased on 04/10/2009.....Was this LE, or JM? Sleuther?

Sorry to quote myself, but i had not thought of the obvious.....Baez?

bailee
05-16-2009, 08:01 AM
Sorry to quote myself, but i had not thought of the obvious.....Baez?

Could have been CA we know how controlling she is! :mad:

ladybugplus
05-17-2009, 04:17 AM
3 letters
YES

Valhall
05-17-2009, 09:54 AM
Guys,

I just got to watch the Dateline special "When Caylee Vanished" last night. I found the reaction Chief Stucker had, and his postured answer, when asked if there really was a Zanny, extremely interesting. I try not to read things into people's words that are not explicitly stated, but I feel that he was very very careful in choosing his words when responding to this question. More than ever, I believe LE knows things concerning the identity "Zanny" that they have not released.

Go to approximately 4:35 in this video...

YouTube - Dateline _ Casey Anthony _ Part 2

Q: Zanny the Nanny...your opinion, does this person exist?
A: *pause* As a nanny for her babies? No, she does not exist.
Q: An imaginary friend?
A: Exactly.

Duckley
05-17-2009, 12:46 PM
Guys,

I just got to watch the Dateline special "When Caylee Vanished" last night. I found the reaction Chief Stucker had, and his postured answer, when asked if there really was a Zanny, extremely interesting. I try not to read things into people's words that are not explicitly stated, but I feel that he was very very careful in choosing his words when responding to this question. More than ever, I believe LE knows things concerning the identity "Zanny" that they have not released.

Go to approximately 4:35 in this video...

YouTube - Dateline _ Casey Anthony _ Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm4k9ogyiJA)

Q: Zanny the Nanny...your opinion, does this person exist?
A: *pause* As a nanny for her babies? No, she does not exist.
Q: An imaginary friend?
A: Exactly.

Thanks so much for this - I missed this - would have loved to see the whole report... is it on line anywhere?

chefmom
05-17-2009, 01:13 PM
Thanks so much for this - I missed this - would have loved to see the whole report... is it on line anywhere?

Go to YouTube and search "Dateline Casey Anthony".

Spacegirl
05-26-2009, 07:04 PM
This is the most interesting thread in history! You people ROCK.


Valhall, in case you missed it in the other thread here's the photo copy of the ck. Casey cashed at BOA. I believe it's page 38, though the whole file is about the check charges..

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2008/1008/17656059.pdf

I am unable to open this pdf file. Anyone care to tell me whose account the check was from? Or how it relates? *edit* Nevermind. I think this was just the physical copy of the stolen AH check.

And if I can bother you guys with just one more question... Am I correct in my understanding that AD admits that she was coincidentally on the phone with Casey when they were both pulled over, but that no ticket was in fact issued to CASEY at all, but one seems to have been issued to a ZG22? This may sound like a stupid question, but I am really just trying to find out if we know for a fact that no ticket was issued to Casey.

Specific thanks to Valhall. :)

Valhall
05-26-2009, 08:07 PM
And if I can bother you guys with just one more question... Am I correct in my understanding that AD admits that she was coincidentally on the phone with Casey when they were both pulled over, but that no ticket was in fact issued to CASEY at all, but one seems to have been issued to a ZG22? This may sound like a stupid question, but I am really just trying to find out if we know for a fact that no ticket was issued to Casey.


AD was asked if KC was with her when she got the ticket. She said (I'm paraphrasing) "No...I happened to be on the phone with her actually."

The tickets (ZG22 and AD) have been verified to have not occurred at the same time of day, so I don't think they were together. But my opinion is that AD was not completely honest when asked if KC ever had an alias.

Mystic
05-27-2009, 07:31 AM
May 24, 2008 - AD receives a traffic citation for 2 people not wearing seatbelts in her car.
ZG22 (date of birth 1/11/86, 3 months older than KC), receives two traffic citations: one for running an intersection, and one for not having a valid driver's license. Note that Operating a motor vehicle without a valid driver's license is a Criminal Offense in Florida.


AD was asked if KC was with her when she got the ticket. She said (I'm paraphrasing) "No...I happened to be on the phone with her actually."

The tickets (ZG22 and AD) have been verified to have not occurred at the same time of day, so I don't think they were together. But my opinion is that AD was not completely honest when asked if KC ever had an alias.

Valhall, I have a question. (not sure if I pulled your quote up correctly from the 1st page)

In the AD Morgan Depo (or possibly her LE interview), AD says she was alone when she received a ticket as well as mentioned being on the phone with Casey who happened to have also been either stopped/ticketed at around the same time. Is this the ticket they questioned her about & your referring? I'm wondering since if so, then AD was lying about being alone.

After reading thru a number of threads on I'm coming up with something but alas I have to head to work & contemplate a bit more. I just wanted to be clear on the ticket you refer to & the one AD is asked about in that Depo.

thanks

AZlawyer
05-27-2009, 01:23 PM
Valhall, I have a question. (not sure if I pulled your quote up correctly from the 1st page)

In the AD Morgan Depo (or possibly her LE interview), AD says she was alone when she received a ticket as well as mentioned being on the phone with Casey who happened to have also been either stopped/ticketed at around the same time. Is this the ticket they questioned her about & your referring? I'm wondering since if so, then AD was lying about being alone.

After reading thru a number of threads on I'm coming up with something but alas I have to head to work & contemplate a bit more. I just wanted to be clear on the ticket you refer to & the one AD is asked about in that Depo.

thanks


Are you sure AD said KC also received a ticket that day? I think AD just said she was on the phone with KC when she (AD) received her ticket.

Valhall
05-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Valhall, I have a question. (not sure if I pulled your quote up correctly from the 1st page)

In the AD Morgan Depo (or possibly her LE interview), AD says she was alone when she received a ticket as well as mentioned being on the phone with Casey who happened to have also been either stopped/ticketed at around the same time. Is this the ticket they questioned her about & your referring? I'm wondering since if so, then AD was lying about being alone.

After reading thru a number of threads on I'm coming up with something but alas I have to head to work & contemplate a bit more. I just wanted to be clear on the ticket you refer to & the one AD is asked about in that Depo.

thanks

I don't think she answered that she "was alone", she just said she wasn't with KC. The statement of "two people not wearing seatbelts" comes from Blink's work where she states that the fine imposed was equivalent to two no seat belt fines. I don't think AD was directly ask "were you alone"? I'll have to go back and check.

The ticket ZG22 got was in the morning of that day. AD's ticket was later in the day, if I recall correctly. I personally do not believe KC was with AD when AD got her tickets.

Verité
05-27-2009, 11:55 PM
And, Annie and a male friend ( I forgot the name) were living there, at the time. I still think KC ran across THAT Zenaida while visiting one or both of them.

Dante claims (in his interviews) that Annie already had moved out at in '07. IIRC, he didn't report KC visiting in the critical June phase either. I think she was shadowing the place. Some other guy lived there who had some ??? connection to Fusian, and early on there was a lot of talk about him, his somewhat questionable
activities, whether he ran escorts, etc. I can't recall his name, but think it may have been Mike something. . . You probably do recall, Brini. Also, I've wondered if KC used to just hang out in that empty 210.

Weird, just weird, all of it, "the Sawgrass Connection."

Mystic
05-28-2009, 07:40 AM
I don't think she answered that she "was alone", she just said she wasn't with KC. The statement of "two people not wearing seatbelts" comes from Blink's work where she states that the fine imposed was equivalent to two no seat belt fines. I don't think AD was directly ask "were you alone"? I'll have to go back and check.

The ticket ZG22 got was in the morning of that day. AD's ticket was later in the day, if I recall correctly. I personally do not believe KC was with AD when AD got her tickets.

Valhall, all the info you've posted on ZG22 gets my head spinning. If we assume Casey had in fact been using this ID and possibly for some years it removes a few coincidents. I don't know if some of my ideas are off the wall and hesitate to post it. But I will try and possibly something clicks for some wsleuther here or they can punch holes in my brainstorming.

I keep coming back to there are 2 very separate things occuring.

1. She murders her daughter
2. She's involved/knows of some sort of other unrelated illegal activity.

I'm thinking #2 may touch on the Rental scam guy & the dealership and relates somehow to the jail visit from that Bourgouis fellow she didn't recognize. If we assume she had the ID for some time and this ID was not just a cheap street fake licence but actually in the system. That's costly. I agree with an earlier post that it was closer to her age & only would have probably given 7 months of clubing under age. I don't figure it was for clubing. The truck had the wrong tags and it could be that little job she had under the table. Like where do you get an id like that? why so elaborate too. If it was Casey, in a truck as outlined she would have had to use the fake id as perhaps that was the purpose of having it in the 1st place.

So if this hypothetical idea is correct she did get herself into some trouble by linking that name to the kidnapping by whomever gave it to her if the id actually relates to being used 'only' for some type of scam/illegal activity. I don't know if I've made sense here with what I'm saying. Casey is such an ellaborate liar, taking bits n pieces of info and working them together. This could be what she's told CA & GA... that she was doing work for someone & they took her daughter. (and they really want to believe she didn't hurt Caylee so they buy the story).

Recall what RG said about the story of when Casey found a sitter. She always goes back to the name on that ID type of thing. I believe the 'Zanny' nic name simply came up at the time Casey was hanging around Ad with Caylee... I figure Caylee said Annie and it sounded like 'sssanny'. And Casey/Annie thought that was probably funny in a ways since Annie was using those med's. I think the whole Zanny reference to a nanny came over time. She didn't always use the name Zanny with her friends, just Nanny.

I just don't think she came up with this crazy story on July 15/16 but had been using ZFG name for illegal activity. I don't think she made much cash for the work (a small player-odd jobs, like moving written-off/stolen cars around. I keep coming to the fact of the anonomous bond put up for her.

In reference to what Lee has said that an officer took some card from what CA found in the wallet on the July 15th... if it was this ID, then the officers would have ZG22 ID in their hands while Casey is stating some ZFG took her child. Wow, their approach of SG & everything she was saying! Maybe why certain interviews/info hasn't been released yet. Also, think AD may have known about the ID and possibly her need to talk to Casey (just a thought).

Right from the start I've wondered what she did during those supposed work hours when she couldn't yet go back to her home yet. I've come up with the park/beach/mall's and possibly the local library (where they have reading time for kids and Casey could sign up to use the public pc). She couldn't be seen that often out and about by friends or family during hours she was suppose to be at work. And I think she was also making money under the table & doubt it was sexually related.

I think the only coincidence (if it is) would be that a ZG went to SG on June 17th. And Casey discovered this by a person her knew it & knew of the fake id Casey carried. (i.e. hey Casey, you wouldn't believe that someone came by here by the name of?) Something like that.

Valhall, the info you've shared on zg22 was great.

Anyway, what do you all think, poke holes in it or even tell me I''ve missed the boat (i can handle it).

sumbunny
05-28-2009, 05:18 PM
I know this sounds rather far fetched, but since Annie was ticketed with two citations ...could it be possible that Annie in fact had a Zanny I.D? Ticketed twice that same day herself?

Just odd that there is a supposed "zanny" that had a ticket on the same day Annie had a ticket. Noone can find ZG22..because she doesn't exist!

When Annie was asked if she knew if casey had another I.D. Annie quickly replied--why would she..she's over 21! Doesn't need a fake i.d.

Perhaps Annie or Casey had a fake zanny I.d from before they were 21.

JWG
05-28-2009, 06:34 PM
Today, 07:48 AM
Valhall (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=35391)Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 20

Exactly, and not only will they be able to determine the IP of the log-ins of caseyomarie's myspace, but of the premeditated "zenaida" myspace set up on June 16th, just prior to KC "kicking off" the whole "Zanny stole my baby" story.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=389838213 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213)

And they will be able to tell if she accessed this zenaida myspace account from JB's office during the countless days she spent her full day at his office. And they will be able to tell that it is not merely a coincidence that 1.) the zenaida myspace was created on the same day Caylee was last seen, and 2. the zenaida myspace was last accessed on the last free day - when KC went to jail for good.

They will be able to see what IP coincidentally chose a "Dora the Explorer" dancing doll as their myspace picture when at the same time Caylee had a Dora the Explorer backpack (and most likely a Dora pony, as referenced as a "toy horse" found with the remains).

They will be able to see what IP...so coincidentally...chose a birthday on the zenaida myspace that is February 19th - where KC's is March 19th.

Age 23 on 02/18/09:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...pace021809.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Valhall/zenaidamyspace021809.jpg)

Age 24 on 02/19/09:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...pace021909.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Valhall/zenaidamyspace021909.jpg)

Apparently this myspace "zenaida" doesn't drive, because the Florida DMV shows no one with the first name zenaida having a birthday of 02/19/85 in their database.

And hopefully they will be able to obtain what, if any content, was posted on that account and subsequently removed prior to 10/14....the last date of entry. And they will be able to tell what IP...so coincidentally...chose "Miami" as the location when we have seen KC keep centering back on Miami as a possible place for "Zanny".

** [SNIP] ** (respectfully)

I was drawn back to this today for some reasons I will not get into and my gut is telling me this may be a major force behind why the prosecution put the death penalty back on the table.

Without the benefit of subpoena powers, I have been trying to figure out if it is possible to fake the last login dates and the join dates.

I have determined it is possible to fake the last login date. I have tested this myself on a dummy myspace page I created. I was able to create a last login date that preceded the creation date of the myspace page.

To do this one needs to use profile version 1.0 and not 2.0. Go to "Edit Profile" and in the Headline section enter the following:
<font class=f1>Female</font><font class=f2>24 years old</font><font class=f3>Miami, FL</font><font class=f4>United States</font><font class=f5>Last Login: 10/14/2008</font><font class=off>
Then in any of the other sections enter the following:
<style>.f1, .f2, .f3, .f4, .f5 {display:block;} .f1{margin-top:15px;} .f5{margin-top:30px;}</style>
Works like a champ. I am poking around to see if it is also possible to do the same thing on the blog page and fake the join date.

Valhall
05-28-2009, 06:57 PM
** [SNIP] ** (respectfully)

I have determined it is possible to fake the last login date. I have tested this myself on a dummy myspace page I created. I was able to create a last login date that preceded the creation date of the myspace page.

To do this one needs to use profile version 1.0 and not 2.0. Go to "Edit Profile" and in the Headline section enter the following:
<font class=f1>Female</font><font class=f2>24 years old</font><font class=f3>Miami, FL</font><font class=f4>United States</font><font class=f5>Last Login: 10/14/2008</font><font class=off>
Then in any of the other sections enter the following:
<style>.f1, .f2, .f3, .f4, .f5 {display:block;} .f1{margin-top:15px;} .f5{margin-top:30px;}</style>
Works like a champ. I am poking around to see if it is also possible to do the same thing on the blog page and fake the join date.


Also respectfully snipped...

This is all so exciting to watch. Okay, so theoretically, your work has shown this page was NOT accessed on 10/14/08. Which would blow holes in the theory that this was, in fact, KC. And potentially (based on what you find about the creation date) you may prove that June 16th wasn't the real creation date.

And, if I'm reading the source code correctly, the version of myspace on that page is Version 1, so this allows what you are saying. But this is what has my interest piqued...if you have found that this whole myspace could be faked to the dates 06/16/08 and 10/14/08, why do you state that this might be why the death penalty was put back on the table???

It would seem that you are proving there may be nothing to it. Can you share why you still find it important?

*waits eagerly*

JWG
05-28-2009, 11:04 PM
Also respectfully snipped...

This is all so exciting to watch. Okay, so theoretically, your work has shown this page was NOT accessed on 10/14/08. Which would blow holes in the theory that this was, in fact, KC. And potentially (based on what you find about the creation date) you may prove that June 16th wasn't the real creation date.

And, if I'm reading the source code correctly, the version of myspace on that page is Version 1, so this allows what you are saying. But this is what has my interest piqued...if you have found that this whole myspace could be faked to the dates 06/16/08 and 10/14/08, why do you state that this might be why the death penalty was put back on the table???

It would seem that you are proving there may be nothing to it. Can you share why you still find it important?

*waits eagerly*

Because, so far in testing the "how does one fake things in myspace" approaches, it does not appear that the last login date has been faked. :)

I am not going to pretend I am an expert in web pages and style sheets, because I am very far from it. But I know just enough to be dangerous. :bang:

If I dig through the page source of my faked myspace page with my last login changed (as well as my sex, age, and location), here is what I see:
<td class="text" width="193" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="75" align="left"><font class="f1">Female</font><font class="f2">24 years old</font><font class="f3">Miami, FL</font><font class="f4">United States</font><font class="f5">Last Login: 10/14/2008</font><font class="off">
<br />
<br />Male
<br />48 years old
<br />City, STATE
<br />United States
<br />
<br />
<span class="msOnlineNow "><img src="http://x.myspacecdn.com/modules/common/static/img/onlinenow2.gif" />Online Now!</span>
<br />
<br />Last Login: <span property="myspace:lastLogin" content="2009-05-28" datatype="xsd:date">5/28/2009</span>
<br />
</td>
Here is an image of the spoofed profile. Note the last login date and other information. I did not change any of that in my profile:

3926

Notice in the source code that the original information is still there (highlighted in blue). The new information is in red. Why does the new information show but not the original in the displayed page? :waitasec:

Because the hack adds the code <font class="off">, which essentially turns off the display of the original information, but does not remove it. So while we cannot see the original information when displayed in a web page, we can always find it when looking at the page source ("CTL-U" in any browser). :rolleyes: One cannot remove the original information from myspace. They can only obscure it.

When I go into the "zenaida" web page, I find only one set of information in the page source. There is no hidden original information paired with displayed fake information. :thumb:

The same holds true of the blog page that shows the sign-up date. Only one set of information can be found on that page - nothing is "turned off". :woohoo:

The zenaida myspace page, IMHO, is genuine. :eek:

Link to page here (http://www.myspace.com/389838213). (http://www.myspace.com/389838213)

Which means to me that when LE was given the information by Valhall in late February (is that when you sent it to them Val?), they took the next two months to:


Subpoena myspace for the IP addresses used to create and modify the page
Discovered those IP addresses were tied to dates and times consistent with KC's location, possibly using cell records as a guide
Found enough additional keywords that they could use to search unallocated sectors (deleted files) on the laptop for evidence
Found traces of KC accessing the specific myspace page in question from those unallocated sectors

Furthermore, because the myspace page was created on June 16, cell pings and Tony's testimony of what he and KC did that evening, coupled with the Encase timeline reports from both computers indicate that KC created the website while at the Anthony home. Myspace IP logs would confirm this. :mad:

Dr. Know?
05-28-2009, 11:32 PM
Boy, I was dangerous at one time with computers, only try to use them now. Thanks JWG & Val for your hard work. I actually understand what was said and this is pretty damaging evidence. Thanks for your hard work. You too BJB and the soo many others.

MAMABEAR
05-29-2009, 02:42 AM
Yes---I would like to Thank You all who have put so much time--energy--brains into all you have shared. Thank You for being here with us. I feel very honored to be here. It is awesome to watch this case unfold---right here at W/S. Gives us a "one up" when the trial gets here.:blowkiss:

MAMABEAR
05-29-2009, 04:29 AM
Guys,

I just got to watch the Dateline special "When Caylee Vanished" last night. I found the reaction Chief Stucker had, and his postured answer, when asked if there really was a Zanny, extremely interesting. I try not to read things into people's words that are not explicitly stated, but I feel that he was very very careful in choosing his words when responding to this question. More than ever, I believe LE knows things concerning the identity "Zanny" that they have not released.

Go to approximately 4:35 in this video...

YouTube - Dateline _ Casey Anthony _ Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm4k9ogyiJA)

Q: Zanny the Nanny...your opinion, does this person exist?
A: *pause* As a nanny for her babies? No, she does not exist.
Q: An imaginary friend?
A: Exactly.

Watched the whole show and that is the best show I have seen on this case. They really did a good job of putting it together. I did notice the look on LE face/eyes when he was asked if there is a real ZFG. That was neat.

Valhall
05-29-2009, 06:34 AM
Because, so far in testing the "how does one fake things in myspace" approaches, it does not appear that the last login date has been faked. :)

I am not going to pretend I am an expert in web pages and style sheets, because I am very far from it. But I know just enough to be dangerous. :bang:

If I dig through the page source of my faked myspace page with my last login changed (as well as my sex, age, and location), here is what I see:
<td class="text" width="193" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="75" align="left"><font class="f1">Female</font><font class="f2">24 years old</font><font class="f3">Miami, FL</font><font class="f4">United States</font><font class="f5">Last Login: 10/14/2008</font><font class="off">
<br />
<br />Male
<br />48 years old
<br />City, STATE
<br />United States
<br />
<br />
<span class="msOnlineNow "><img src="http://x.myspacecdn.com/modules/common/static/img/onlinenow2.gif" />Online Now!</span>
<br />
<br />Last Login: <span property="myspace:lastLogin" content="2009-05-28" datatype="xsd:date">5/28/2009</span>
<br />
</td>
Here is an image of the spoofed profile. Note the last login date and other information. I did not change any of that in my profile:

3926

Notice in the source code that the original information is still there (highlighted in blue). The new information is in red. Why does the new information show but not the original in the displayed page? :waitasec:

Because the hack adds the code <font class="off">, which essentially turns off the display of the original information, but does not remove it. So while we cannot see the original information when displayed in a web page, we can always find it when looking at the page source ("CTL-U" in any browser). :rolleyes: One cannot remove the original information from myspace. They can only obscure it.

When I go into the "zenaida" web page, I find only one set of information in the page source. There is no hidden original information paired with displayed fake information. :thumb:

The same holds true of the blog page that shows the sign-up date. Only one set of information can be found on that page - nothing is "turned off". :woohoo:

The zenaida myspace page, IMHO, is genuine. :eek:

Link to page here (http://www.myspace.com/389838213). (http://www.myspace.com/389838213)

Which means to me that when LE was given the information by Valhall in late February (is that when you sent it to them Val?), they took the next two months to:


Subpoena myspace for the IP addresses used to create and modify the page
Discovered those IP addresses were tied to dates and times consistent with KC's location, possibly using cell records as a guide
Found enough additional keywords that they could use to search unallocated sectors (deleted files) on the laptop for evidence
Found traces of KC accessing the specific myspace page in question from those unallocated sectors

Furthermore, because the myspace page was created on June 16, cell pings and Tony's testimony of what he and KC did that evening, coupled with the Encase timeline reports from both computers indicate that KC created the website while at the Anthony home. Myspace IP logs would confirm this. :mad:

Very nice! When I had first found the myspace account I had researched hacks and found that you could obscure dates, but did not find where you could actually fake them...so you had me scared! But I had gone line by line through the source code on both pages (main and blog) comparing it to my own myspace (which I had never changed) and didn't find anything that appeared to show hacks in place.

As far as timeline. I first posted about this myspace over on my hubbie's website in January. Since the administrator over there is a friggin' Google-search optimizing guru, they COULD have found it on the returns within a week probably. I did not contact LE until the day the age rolled over because I wanted to know the birthdate associated with the account before contacting them. So I emailed OCSO (the general cayleeanthonycase@ocfl.net account) on February 19th, as well as Mark Fuhrman. Some one later provided me Yuri's email and I emailed it direct to him on March 1st.

Thank you for your work on this! It makes me feel this page has been validated (as best we non-subpoena-powered people can!)

Valhall
05-29-2009, 06:59 AM
Quote from JWG...


Furthermore, because the myspace page was created on June 16, cell pings and Tony's testimony of what he and KC did that evening, coupled with the Encase timeline reports from both computers indicate that KC created the website while at the Anthony home. Myspace IP logs would confirm this.

Your work along with the communications I had with myspace customer reps has brought us to this:

The creation date appears to be authentic and 06/16/08 (day Caylee was last seen).
The last login date appears to be authentic and 10/14/08 (last free day for KC).
The page was set up on 06/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
The page was set up on 06/16/08 with the pic of "Dora the Dancing Doll".
Neither of the above two items (name and pic) have been changed since 06/16/08 because the last updated field shows 06/16/08 (JWG, I believe if you check on this one you will find that there is no evidence of a hack for this date either, so it is authentic as well). If the name or pic had been updated since 06/16/08, this date would have changed.

We know that KC was on the desktop computer around 9 a.m. the morning of the 16th, because she uploaded a pic into her photobucket account. There was activity on the computer off and on through out the morning. There is the possibility (due to KC's cell phone pings being in the area of the Anthony home) that she may have come back for a brief time in the early afternoon, just after GA left for work. But I also have to state I'm not sure this is correct. She may have been at LA's house. Irrespective, KC appears to have created a "zenaida" myspace with a Dora the Dancing Doll on the same day, and prior to the hour, of Caylee's death.

This is why this page has meant so much to me...it is the one piece of potential evidence that points to preparing to "need a zenaida", and at this point, we only have one reason to need a zenaida. If it weren't for this myspace page I would be firmly in the "accidental death and subsequent cover-up" group. But until this myspace is shot down as not being KC, I believe she killed Caylee and she did it with premeditation. As Judge Strickland stated yesterday premeditation only takes seconds...and this myspace shows more time investment than that; ESPECIALLY if it is found to have been created before she left that house the first time.

It's Not the Nanny
05-29-2009, 07:00 AM
Would it be possible to see the exact time of day on June 16th that the zenaida myspace was created?

(it would go a long way to proving pre-meditation and the reason the death penalty was put back on the table)


ETA: -- sorry, cross posted with you Vall!

QB.
05-29-2009, 07:02 AM
Wow, I remember seeing this page discussed a while back but forgot about it. This is exceptionally well done sleuthing - a great find, and I'd say a 'bombshell'.

Are you sure they followed it up?
When did the dp get put back on the table? Could this be a factor in them bringing it back?
Wow again, great work Valhall & JWG!!!!!

Valhall
05-29-2009, 07:11 AM
Wow, I remember seeing this page discussed a while back but forgot about it. This is exceptionally well done sleuthing - a great find, and I'd say a 'bombshell'.

Are you sure they followed it up?
When did the dp get put back on the table? Could this be a factor in them bringing it back?
Wow again, great work Valhall & JWG!!!!!

The death penalty was brought back on April 13th.

QB.
05-29-2009, 07:17 AM
The SA bringing back the dp at that time makes sense now in light of this information.
OMG!

Valhall
05-29-2009, 07:19 AM
Pardon me for quoting myself, but I'm going to repost this from here

Is Casey the real Zenaida? - Page 34 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

so that it is close to JWG's research and we have the full set of research on the "dates" associated with the myspace page set fairly close together in this thread:




I've been doing some research on the zenaida myspace to be sure I was interpreting dates correctly. If you go to the main profile you see that the last login date is 10/14/08 (the last day KC was free and spent her day at JB's office).

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=389838213

And if you go the blog page for this myspace you can see it lists last update and signup date both as 6/16/08 (the day KC left the Anthony house for the last time with Caylee).

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ndId=389838213

The reason understanding whether I'm interpreting these dates correctly is important to me is that if this myspace was set up with the name "zenaida" and with the Dora the Dancing doll pic on the 16th of June, and if it was set up by KC prior to something happening to Caylee, it is evidence of premeditation of at least planning to tell a "zenaida" story, and at most of a planned murder. But if the myspace was set up (even by KC) on the 16th as another name and then later changed to "zenaida", it could be interpreted differently (i.e. KC trying to divert LE attention toward a "Miami zenaida" - but not necessarily some act reflecting premeditation).

So I contacted myspace (both by email and phone) and asked the following question:



Is the "last updated" date that shows when you go to the blog page of a member's myspace the last time ANYTHING was changed on the whole myspace site for that member?

Here's an example:

When I'm on the blog area of a member's myspace and it lists the following:
Last Update: 9/10/08
Signup Date: 9/10/08

And on the main page of that member's myspace it says:
Last login: 12/5/08

Does that mean that no pictures, blog entries, name changes, etc. have occurred since that myspace account was created on 9/10/08? Is the "Last Update" date, the date ANYTHING related to that myspace was changed?

The answer I got was...



Thank you for contacting us to get your MySpace question answered. The answer to your question is yes.

Okay, then I found this discussion where some myspace users were tracking what activity actually affects the "last update" field.

http://she-geeks.com/forum/myspace-d...t-update/?wap2

And I worked through them myself because I have a myspace that I really never have done anything with as far as blogging, customizing, etc., so I thought it would be a good "test ground". I have been able to confirm everything these posters state here as far as what updates this field and what doesn't.

So basically what I confirmed is:

that a "name change" (i.e. from something to "zenaida") would change the last update field.

that changing the picture on the profile would change the last update field.

that creating a blog entry will change the last update field.

that deleting a blog entry will NOT change the last update field.

that deleting a picture in the album will NOT change the last update field (as long as it is not the picture selected for the profile, of course).

and that deleting a blog entry will also make the blog page go back to read "You have not posted yet. Try it out, if you don't like it, you can delete whatever you post." as if there never was a blog entry there.

So what we can assume with a great deal of confidence (I'm not going to say 100% confidence) is that:

This myspace was set up on 6/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
It was set up on 6/16/08 with the Dora the Dancing Doll pic as the profile pic.
And if there were any entries in the blog, they would have had to have been made on 6/16/08 (but could have been deleted any time afterward and us not know it.)

Valhall
05-29-2009, 07:27 AM
And then I would like to say one more thing and I'll stop spamming this thread...

There's only ONE defense to this evidence if, in fact, this myspace has been proven to be created from the Anthony residence on the morning of 06/16/08.

And that's to blame it on George.

Something has happened in recent weeks to CA and GA. I have to say personally (and some of you other 40's women will concur) that up through the ZFG deposition I had been amazed at how well CA looked in the face (i.e. she had shown no signs of aging or stress in her face, even though she had lost a great deal of weight). Something happened not long after that depo that has significantly affected both her and GA. They went from looking fairly healthy during the civil depo to extremely aged and stressed in their faces. These changes occurred some where right after the LKL interview.

Have they learned that KC is preparing to blame GA? It's just a thought (no theory I'm married to), but if this myspace has been attached to the Anthony IP KC has no out than to throw her dad under that proverbial bus.

Verité
05-29-2009, 07:38 AM
. . .This is why this page has meant so much to me...it is the one piece of potential evidence that points to preparing to "need a zenaida", and at this point, we only have one reason to need a zenaida. If it weren't for this myspace page I would be firmly in the "accidental death and subsequent cover-up" group. But until this myspace is shot down as not being KC, I believe she killed Caylee and she did it with premeditation. As Judge Strickland stated yesterday premeditation only takes seconds...and this myspace shows more time investment than that; ESPECIALLY if it is found to have been created before she left that house the first time.

Your logic is splendid. . .except, I can't find your reasoning for why the Z. page wasn't created as needed after the fact, i.e. when something could have happened
on the night of 6/15 when, we're told, KC was already in the throes of heightened rage. ???

Valhall
05-29-2009, 07:47 AM
Your logic is splendid. . .except, I can't find your reasoning for why the Z. page wasn't created as needed after the fact, i.e. when something could have happened
on the night of 6/15 when, we're told, KC was already in the throes of heightened rage. ???

Well, I guess my reasoning is as follows:

I don't believe anything happened on the night of the 15th. KC was on the phone with TL up until the wee hours of the morning which means she basically would have to do Caylee in with one hand while texting or talking with the other. AND, KC may think she's smarter than she is, but I also think she's smarter than a lot give her credit for. I don't think for a minute she would have spent the night in that room with a dead Caylee knowing CA could have come into the bedroom before leaving for work to check on Caylee (and that's even if the door was locked). There aint no way CA would have had a bedroom lock on that door that she couldn't unlock; she was too controlling. I bet there is no lock on the door period.

Also, I do believe GA saw them leave that day (16th), though I don't think he actually remembers what they were wearing. And for the record, unless he recants that statement or LE/defense find evidence to cast doubt on the veracity of the statement, it stands as evidence. I guess what I'm saying is, if GA ISN'T being honest, and this myspace WAS created the morning of the 6/16, his falsehood may assist in proving premeditation.

Right now the evidence points at Caylee being alive and walking out of that home on the afternoon of the 16th.

QB.
05-29-2009, 07:55 AM
Well, I guess my reasoning is as follows:


Also, I do believe GA saw them leave that day (16th), though I don't think he actually remembers what they were wearing. And for the record, unless he recants that statement or LE/defense find evidence to cast doubt on the veracity of the statement, it stands as evidence. I guess what I'm saying is, if GA ISN'T being honest, and this myspace WAS created the morning of the 6/16, his falsehood may assist in proving premeditation.

Right now the evidence points at Caylee being alive and walking out of that home on the afternoon of the 16th.


respectfully snipped by me .
I have bolded the part I am not following. If he lied about seeing them on the 16th and the page was created on the 16th then his falsehood would not support premeditation because page would have been created after the fact. Right?

Valhall
05-29-2009, 08:12 AM
respectfully snipped by me .
I have bolded the part I am not following. If he lied about seeing them on the 16th and the page was created on the 16th then his falshood would not support premediation because page would have been created after the fact. Right?

The time the myspace was created is paramount to EVERYTHING about the page if it was KC who created it. That goes without saying. And until we get discovery released that shows some connection to KC and this myspace, and we see what time it was created...all speculation around it is nothing but that.

HOWEVER, in regards to my statement about GA's account. It is based on my personal opinion that the time of creation will be prior to her leaving that house. In looking at the periods of activity on the desktop, I truly believe this page was created prior to noon on the 16th. So if that is true and coupled with GA confirming Caylee alive when she left the house that afternoon...the myspace creation would preface the death of Caylee.

QB.
05-29-2009, 08:17 AM
I wonder if exact time is recorded along with date and other info when a myspace page is created. Wouldn't that be a gem!
Anyone know ?

Valhall
05-29-2009, 08:25 AM
I've got a $20 donation to TES on the table that the creation time is in the myspace log. But even if I lose that donation to TES (which won't bother me a bit), the time of upload of the "Dora the Dancing Doll" pic will be! And you can pretty much figure that the upload of that pic will be within 30 minutes of the account being set up.

KenoshaKid
05-29-2009, 08:28 AM
<snipped for space>




Subpoena myspace for the IP addresses used to create and modify the page
Discovered those IP addresses were tied to dates and times consistent with KC's location, possibly using cell records as a guide
Found enough additional keywords that they could use to search unallocated sectors (deleted files) on the laptop for evidence
Found traces of KC accessing the specific myspace page in question from those unallocated sectors

Furthermore, because the myspace page was created on June 16, cell pings and Tony's testimony of what he and KC did that evening, coupled with the Encase timeline reports from both computers indicate that KC created the website while at the Anthony home. Myspace IP logs would confirm this. :mad:

Wow, JWG, you are totally awesome. I work as a computer geek and I am following what you're saying. I was hoping that LE had checked the IP address of this Myspace. Boy, if it turns out she created it?? Yikes that would be tough to defend. It also adds premeditation, which could very well be why the DP is back on the table. Do you think it will come out in a document dump?

sumbunny
05-29-2009, 08:36 AM
If she uploaded the pic of dora the dancing doll, wouldn't that exact picture be somewhere on her computer as a saved file?

KenoshaKid
05-29-2009, 08:37 AM
And then I would like to say one more thing and I'll stop spamming this thread...

There's only ONE defense to this evidence if, in fact, this myspace has been proven to be created from the Anthony residence on the morning of 06/16/08.

And that's to blame it on George.

Something has happened in recent weeks to CA and GA. I have to say personally (and some of you other 40's women will concur) that up through the ZFG deposition I had been amazed at how well CA looked in the face (i.e. she had shown no signs of aging or stress in her face, even though she had lost a great deal of weight). Something happened not long after that depo that has significantly affected both her and GA. They went from looking fairly healthy during the civil depo to extremely aged and stressed in their faces. These changes occurred some where right after the LKL interview.

Have they learned that KC is preparing to blame GA? It's just a thought (no theory I'm married to), but if this myspace has been attached to the Anthony IP KC has no out than to throw her dad under that proverbial bus.

Maybe the Botox wore off? :crazy:
(Bold mine )

nephers
05-29-2009, 08:37 AM
Just curious, is there any way to figure out where the Dora picture came from? Was it a random picture that was put up or was it part of KC's photobucket?

Clock's Tickin
05-29-2009, 08:41 AM
And then I would like to say one more thing and I'll stop spamming this thread...

There's only ONE defense to this evidence if, in fact, this myspace has been proven to be created from the Anthony residence on the morning of 06/16/08.

And that's to blame it on George.

Something has happened in recent weeks to CA and GA. I have to say personally (and some of you other 40's women will concur) that up through the ZFG deposition I had been amazed at how well CA looked in the face (i.e. she had shown no signs of aging or stress in her face, even though she had lost a great deal of weight). Something happened not long after that depo that has significantly affected both her and GA. They went from looking fairly healthy during the civil depo to extremely aged and stressed in their faces. These changes occurred some where right after the LKL interview.

Have they learned that KC is preparing to blame GA? It's just a thought (no theory I'm married to), but if this myspace has been attached to the Anthony IP KC has no out than to throw her dad under that proverbial bus.


If that was the plan all along, it would fit right in with her getting the house and such. I'd always thought she planned to kill the parents outright, but perhaps she just expected them to "go away"---dad to jail and mom off with a new fella?? After all, without Caylee and GA there, what would she have to stay for?

Valhall
05-29-2009, 08:55 AM
If she uploaded the pic of dora the dancing doll, wouldn't that exact picture be somewhere on her computer as a saved file?

Only if she didn't delete it off the computer after uploading it.


Just curious, is there any way to figure out where the Dora picture came from? Was it a random picture that was put up or was it part of KC's photobucket?

I actually found that exact picture right after first finding the myspace.

Here's one example...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZK9030P1L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

It is the promo pic for the Dora the Dancing Doll. I do not believe this was in her photobucket account.

QB.
05-29-2009, 09:06 AM
I missed the Judge's comment about premeditation - if I were to look for it which part of the hearing would I find it? WFTV has the hearing in 3 parts - I am assuming its in either part 2 or 3, does anyone know exactly when he said this?

JWG
05-29-2009, 09:25 AM
As far as timeline. I first posted about this myspace over on my hubbie's website in January. Since the administrator over there is a friggin' Google-search optimizing guru, they COULD have found it on the returns within a week probably. I did not contact LE until the day the age rolled over because I wanted to know the birthdate associated with the account before contacting them. So I emailed OCSO (the general cayleeanthonycase@ocfl.net account) on February 19th, as well as Mark Fuhrman. Some one later provided me Yuri's email and I emailed it direct to him on March 1st.

IMHO, LE did not and could not look throughout the web for a myspace or facebook page belonging potentially to KC but under the name of "zenaida" or some other form. There are too many pages to search, and without subpoenaing each and every one, the problem becomes intractable.

Finding this page was possible only one way - a tip from someone who stumbled across it. That would be you, Valhall.


HOWEVER, in regards to my statement about GA's account. It is based on my personal opinion that the time of creation will be prior to her leaving that house. In looking at the periods of activity on the desktop, I truly believe this page was created prior to noon on the 16th. So if that is true and coupled with GA confirming Caylee alive when she left the house that afternoon...the myspace creation would preface the death of Caylee.

KC probably did all of the work from the laptop. There is activity - very light activity - sporadically up through 4PM on the 16th on the laptop.

As with combing the internet for a zenaida connection to KC, the same sort of difficult problem occurs on computer hard drives. Not sure how big the Anthony drives are but one can probably assume they are at least 80GB drives. Let's assume KC tried to delete cookies, internet history, etc. to cover her tracks. While the info may still very well be there in unallocated space, it must be searched byte-by-byte by software, and even with a computer that can be time-consuming. Also note, such a binary search must be done for each variation of spelling and capitalization. IOW, a binary search of unallocated space for "Zenaida" will not find "zenaida".

The searches reported in discovery for various forms of "Zenaida" were done only on the home computer, probably to look for premeditation there. Investigation on the laptop seems to have focused more on her attitude after Caylee disappeared. The appearance was, after all, that KC used the desktop before leaving and the laptop after.

Remember that the laptop, when recovered, had the "blue screen of death" indicating someone (KC) made a frantic last-ditch effort to cover tracks. A lot of stuff could have ended up in unallocated space when that happened.


Would it be possible to see the exact time of day on June 16th that the zenaida myspace was created?

Yes, using a subpoena of IP records from myspace. It may be possible to find it in internet history as well, but file dates typically get lost when files are deleted and the contents end up in unallocated space.


And that's to blame it on George.

Something has happened in recent weeks to CA and GA. I have to say personally (and some of you other 40's women will concur) that up through the ZFG deposition I had been amazed at how well CA looked in the face (i.e. she had shown no signs of aging or stress in her face, even though she had lost a great deal of weight). Something happened not long after that depo that has significantly affected both her and GA. They went from looking fairly healthy during the civil depo to extremely aged and stressed in their faces. These changes occurred some where right after the LKL interview.

IMHO, defense has a very big problem trying to blame George, Jesse, or anyone else after so much focus for so long on ZFG.

It is possible that the "zenaida" web page investigation was part of the latest discovery (not yet released into a document dump), and the Anthony's caught wind of it. However, I doubt that has found it's way into the hands of the defense as of yet. Their posturing yesterday does not indicate they know about this yet.


If she uploaded the pic of dora the dancing doll, wouldn't that exact picture be somewhere on her computer as a saved file?

It could have been on the laptop, but does not appear to have ever been a part of Photobucket.


Just curious, is there any way to figure out where the Dora picture came from? Was it a random picture that was put up or was it part of KC's photobucket?

Do a Google image search for the string dora the explorer doll ... it will be the first image that shows.

Valhall
05-29-2009, 09:43 AM
KC probably did all of the work from the laptop. There is activity - very light activity - sporadically up through 4PM on the 16th on the laptop.


*respectfully "croppilated" to point of interest*

I have considered this myself. And I have several thoughts on this.

1. I don't think KC was the one who blue-screened the computer. If CA's account of the hurried manner in which she forced KC out of that apartment is accurate, KC had no time to do this. I'll leave that statement as it is and not speculate further (though I have in other places).

2. The beauty of it being on the laptop is that IF she did do it on the laptop prior to leaving the Anthony home, is that the IP will STILL lock it to the Anthony residence with the added benefit of tying it to the laptop (i.e. not the IP to the desktop, but the IP of the laptop). We know that the desktop had activity that morning, and that it was KC (photobucket image upload), so it is within reason that during the same "KC activity" on the desktop, the myspace account was set up as well. But even if she didn't do this on the desktop, and instead used the laptop, the use of the desktop that morning establishes the IP for it...therefore use of the laptop dilineates which computer did it!

If I recall correctly, the activity on the laptop was more system-based instead of user-based on the 16th. I thought it did NOT show any appreciable user activity for the entire date (going off memory so correct me if I'm wrong). Either way, it will tie to the Anthony home and possibly (if on the laptop) make it harder for KC to insinuate it was George. Because I've got a feeling George never used the laptop.

Hopefully *crosses fingers* ALL of these questions will be answered soon!

Hell's Belle
05-29-2009, 09:47 AM
I missed the Judge's comment about premeditation - if I were to look for it which part of the hearing would I find it? WFTV has the hearing in 3 parts - I am assuming its in either part 2 or 3, does anyone know exactly when he said this?

He was talking to JB about tailoring the subpoenas, so it was the first half or so of the hearing. He was simply noting the general proposition that the length of time needed to establish the element of premeditation can be very short. I didn't interpret it as a comment about the evidence in this case.

JWG
05-29-2009, 10:33 AM
*respectfully "croppilated" to point of interest*

I have considered this myself. And I have several thoughts on this.

1. I don't think KC was the one who blue-screened the computer. If CA's account of the hurried manner in which she forced KC out of that apartment is accurate, KC had no time to do this. I'll leave that statement as it is and not speculate further (though I have in other places).

My understanding from reading the interviews of Tony, Nate, and Amy ... Cindy / Amy / KC were there at Tony's for about 20 minutes. The timings of phone calls from Cindy to Amy and Cindy to 911, plus drive times, supports this.

I think KC, as she was storming through the apartment, had enough time to do something to the laptop.


If I recall correctly, the activity on the laptop was more system-based instead of user-based on the 16th. I thought it did NOT show any appreciable user activity for the entire date (going off memory so correct me if I'm wrong). Either way, it will tie to the Anthony home and possibly (if on the laptop) make it harder for KC to insinuate it was George. Because I've got a feeling George never used the laptop.

The system activity hypothesis came from me, because I was not sure what would be going on the laptop at such a low level, given she was clearly using the desktop for IMing and Photobucket. I think it is reasonable to believe some of it was due to low-level myspace activity.

sadyjade
05-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Valhall, JWG, this is amazing work! You guys have canine senses, and cat like reflexes!

Brilliant!!! A million Thanks!!!

Valhall
05-29-2009, 11:29 AM
My understanding from reading the interviews of Tony, Nate, and Amy ... Cindy / Amy / KC were there at Tony's for about 20 minutes. The timings of phone calls from Cindy to Amy and Cindy to 911, plus drive times, supports this.

I think KC, as she was storming through the apartment, had enough time to do something to the laptop.



The system activity hypothesis came from me, because I was not sure what would be going on the laptop at such a low level, given she was clearly using the desktop for IMing and Photobucket. I think it is reasonable to believe some of it was due to low-level myspace activity.

Thanks! This is all very useful info. So she could have had time to do something to the laptop...very interesting! Also, I concur that she could have been "boxing" (to use a gamer term) on the two computers. Like I said before, I think if the myspace activity was done on the laptop that will cause more grief in her defense than if it is on the desktop (assuming she attempts the "it wasn't me it was daddy!" defense).

ExpectingUnicorns
05-29-2009, 12:15 PM
Thank you so much Valhall and JWG for all the time and effort put in to your expert sleuthing!!! I sit in amazement watching your minds at work. . . Thank you! (Am wondering how long it will take for this to go public ~ After all, it certainly is a "Bombshell," you know.)

JWG
05-29-2009, 12:59 PM
If I recall, one condition of KC's bond was that she cannot use a computer, or perhaps it was to access the internet. However, some of the updates to the myspace page in question had to have occurred while she was out on bond, including at a minumum the final login on October 14. There must also be at least some probability that a portion of these updates were done from JB's offices, perhaps even the final login.

If KC was accessing the computer from JB's offices he would have to give her access to the computer, thus he was assisting her in violating the terms of her bond.

Could that be the reason behind one of the complaints filed with the bar against Mr. Baez? One of the three complaints is from an unknown party, and they were made public in early April - at least the Strickland and DC complaints were made known then. The final complaint seems to have come out later.

BondJamesBond
05-29-2009, 01:06 PM
:clap: Thanks, Valhall & JWG. Fascinating stuff! :clap:

Any news on the time-shift JWG? That afternoon slot would make more sense now...IOW...cause & effect :online: vs. leisurely :online: IYKWIM.

I'm behind the firewall @ the moment, so I can't do it myself 'till later. Any properties on that Dora image file available via the MS source code?

ETA: Isn't there a way to get an MS page's cache? A script that can be run online? :waitasec:

Valhall
05-29-2009, 01:44 PM
If I recall, one condition of KC's bond was that she cannot use a computer, or perhaps it was to access the internet. However, some of the updates to the myspace page in question had to have occurred while she was out on bond, including at a minumum the final login on October 14. There must also be at least some probability that a portion of these updates were done from JB's offices, perhaps even the final login.

If KC was accessing the computer from JB's offices he would have to give her access to the computer, thus he was assisting her in violating the terms of her bond.

Could that be the reason behind one of the complaints filed with the bar against Mr. Baez? One of the three complaints is from an unknown party, and they were made public in early April - at least the Strickland and DC complaints were made known then. The final complaint seems to have come out later.

To clarify...the LOGI NS would, in fact, have to be done after the mandate she stay off the computer, and, most likely, at JB's office. "UPDATES"...the only update that could have happened after 06/16/08 that could have been done without making the "updated last" date change would be the deletion of a blog entry originally posted on 06/16/08, or removal of pictures originally loaded on 06/16/08. Anything else and the "last updated" date would have changed.

BJB,
I'm going to check with some people and see if there is something that can be found out on the myspace.

BRB!

JWG
05-29-2009, 02:20 PM
:clap: Thanks, Valhall & JWG. Fascinating stuff! :clap:

Any news on the time-shift JWG? That afternoon slot would make more sense now...IOW...cause & effect :online: vs. leisurely :online: IYKWIM.

I'm behind the firewall @ the moment, so I can't do it myself 'till later. Any properties on that Dora image file available via the MS source code?

ETA: Isn't there a way to get an MS page's cache? A script that can be run online? :waitasec:

Unfortunately, myspace (and many other sites) strip the EXIF information on upload. I used an openpanda web EXIF reader and verified this. No object data available.

When downloading the file I get brand new EXIF data ... for my computer. :rolleyes:

BondJamesBond
05-29-2009, 02:26 PM
BJB,
I'm going to check with some people and see if there is something that can be found out on the myspace.
*snipped*

Thx. Also interested in ID = 10472558 too if/when you get a script.

NocturnalLady
05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
Quote from JWG...



Your work along with the communications I had with myspace customer reps has brought us to this:

The creation date appears to be authentic and 06/16/08 (day Caylee was last seen).
The last login date appears to be authentic and 10/14/08 (last free day for KC).
The page was set up on 06/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
The page was set up on 06/16/08 with the pic of "Dora the Dancing Doll".
Neither of the above two items (name and pic) have been changed since 06/16/08 because the last updated field shows 06/16/08 (JWG, I believe if you check on this one you will find that there is no evidence of a hack for this date either, so it is authentic as well). If the name or pic had been updated since 06/16/08, this date would have changed.

We know that KC was on the desktop computer around 9 a.m. the morning of the 16th, because she uploaded a pic into her photobucket account. There was activity on the computer off and on through out the morning. There is the possibility (due to KC's cell phone pings being in the area of the Anthony home) that she may have come back for a brief time in the early afternoon, just after GA left for work. But I also have to state I'm not sure this is correct. She may have been at LA's house. Irrespective, KC appears to have created a "zenaida" myspace with a Dora the Dancing Doll on the same day, and prior to the hour, of Caylee's death.

This is why this page has meant so much to me...it is the one piece of potential evidence that points to preparing to "need a zenaida", and at this point, we only have one reason to need a zenaida. If it weren't for this myspace page I would be firmly in the "accidental death and subsequent cover-up" group. But until this myspace is shot down as not being KC, I believe she killed Caylee and she did it with premeditation. As Judge Strickland stated yesterday premeditation only takes seconds...and this myspace shows more time investment than that; ESPECIALLY if it is found to have been created before she left that house the first time.

Wow! :eek: I hadn't seen this before. It certainly paints Caylee's murder in a new light. Thanks to everyone who posted this!

NocturnalLady
05-29-2009, 02:59 PM
If I recall, one condition of KC's bond was that she cannot use a computer, or perhaps it was to access the internet. However, some of the updates to the myspace page in question had to have occurred while she was out on bond, including at a minumum the final login on October 14. There must also be at least some probability that a portion of these updates were done from JB's offices, perhaps even the final login.

If KC was accessing the computer from JB's offices he would have to give her access to the computer, thus he was assisting her in violating the terms of her bond.

Could that be the reason behind one of the complaints filed with the bar against Mr. Baez? One of the three complaints is from an unknown party, and they were made public in early April - at least the Strickland and DC complaints were made known then. The final complaint seems to have come out later.

Ooooh that's a good one! :clap: Now I really can't wait to see what those complaints are all about. :woohoo:

JWG
05-29-2009, 03:01 PM
ETA: Isn't there a way to get an MS page's cache? A script that can be run online? :waitasec:

AFAIK, the only cached version one can view is through Google. The zenaida page is not cached. Parts of what appear to be a wall page for the 10472558 ID is cached, but I did not find anything useful.

I checked internet archives and found nothing as well.

IIRC, myspace and some other sites put blocks on web crawlers from accessing the sites and storing the pages. This was done recently.

ExpectingUnicorns
05-29-2009, 03:13 PM
*snipped*

Thx. Also interested in ID = 10472558 too if/when you get a script.

I don't pretend to understand anything 'bout puters but does this post from one hooah wife help?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's deleted myspace messages

AZlawyer
05-29-2009, 03:49 PM
So is the birthday used for this Zenaida myspace page the same as the birthday for ZG22who got the traffic ticket?

ETA: Just found my notes that the ZG22 birthday was 1/11/86. If the Myspace Z's birthday is 2/19/85, I guess not. :)

reeseeva
05-29-2009, 03:50 PM
If I recall, one condition of KC's bond was that she cannot use a computer, or perhaps it was to access the internet. However, some of the updates to the myspace page in question had to have occurred while she was out on bond, including at a minumum the final login on October 14. There must also be at least some probability that a portion of these updates were done from JB's offices, perhaps even the final login.

If KC was accessing the computer from JB's offices he would have to give her access to the computer, thus he was assisting her in violating the terms of her bond.

Could that be the reason behind one of the complaints filed with the bar against Mr. Baez? One of the three complaints is from an unknown party, and they were made public in early April - at least the Strickland and DC complaints were made known then. The final complaint seems to have come out later.


Does anyone know when these complaints will be addressed? Or, what the timeframe is, and are they made public?

TIA

NocturnalLady
05-29-2009, 04:23 PM
So is the birthday used for this Zenaida myspace page the same as the birthday for ZG22who got the traffic ticket?

ETA: Just found my notes that the ZG22 birthday was 1/11/86. If the Myspace Z's birthday is 2/19/85, I guess not. :)


So how does this jibe with the date Cindy gave in the depo? I think she said September 1 was the evil ZFG's birthdate.

JWG
05-29-2009, 05:30 PM
So how does this jibe with the date Cindy gave in the depo? I think she said September 1 was the evil ZFG's birthdate.

It doesn't, but remember the whole ZFG story evolved over time, and did not really crystallize until July 15. Take for example how she answered the question as to how long she's known Zanny:


To Rev. Grund in April 2006: I found this lady uh, Zenaida Gonzalez and she, she watches my friend Jeffrey Hopkins son Zachery. And Zachery and Caylee play together and they, they love to be together. So thisíll work out great. So in July 2008 she would have known ZG approximately 27 or 28 months (less than 2 1/2 years).
To LE in the first interview: Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
To Tony via texts on the 16th of July: Known her for almost 4 years.
To Iassen via July instant messaging: Has known her for six years.


Details, schmetails ... :rolleyes:

jjgram
05-29-2009, 05:52 PM
My understanding from reading the interviews of Tony, Nate, and Amy ... Cindy / Amy / KC were there at Tony's for about 20 minutes. The timings of phone calls from Cindy to Amy and Cindy to 911, plus drive times, supports this.

I think KC, as she was storming through the apartment, had enough time to do something to the laptop.



The system activity hypothesis came from me, because I was not sure what would be going on the laptop at such a low level, given she was clearly using the desktop for IMing and Photobucket. I think it is reasonable to believe some of it was due to low-level myspace activity.



:waitasec:
:confused:
:rolleyes::eek::eek::eek::waitasec:
Hey.....
you can also be on the internet ..... with your cell phone....

could KC use that ? ? ?

just wondering...
although....
L@@KS like when she left AL (Tony's apt) with her Mom & Amy
that
she left her cell phone at the apt....
I find that weird also......
KC leaving her cell...... I thought it was attached to her
wrist ...
cause she would have withdrawals..... with out letting
her fingers do the T E X T I N G ...... every few moments
:online::online::treadmill:
:pinocchio::pinocchio::pinocchio::pcguru::pcguru:: pcguru:
:princess::put em up::online::online::online:

sorry jwg

I do get carried away when it come 2 that KC ! ! !

JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

NocturnalLady
05-29-2009, 06:39 PM
It doesn't, but remember the whole ZFG story evolved over time, and did not really crystallize until July 15. Take for example how she answered the question as to how long she's known Zanny:


To Rev. Grund in April 2006: I found this lady uh, Zenaida Gonzalez and she, she watches my friend Jeffrey Hopkins son Zachery. And Zachery and Caylee play together and they, they love to be together. So thisíll work out great. So in July 2008 she would have known ZG approximately 27 or 28 months (less than 2 1/2 years).
To LE in the first interview: Met her around Christmas 2004, "before she was pregnant", or about 3 1/2 years.
To Tony via texts on the 16th of July: Known her for almost 4 years.
To Iassen via July instant messaging: Has known her for six years.


Details, schmetails ... :rolleyes:


I just think it's kind of "funny" that Casey didn't give Cindy the same birthdate for ZFG as the one Casey had created for the MySpace profile. (Assuming Cindy got that Sept. 1 date from Casey. For all I know she could have made it up on the spot during the depo. That's the only place that Sept. 1 date has been said right?) Anyhoooo - maybe by the time Casey gave Cindy a birthdate she had thought twice about using the MySpace profile as part of her cover up. Maybe she realized it was half baked and could be traced back to her. Or maybe she just forgot what she had put as the birthdate for the MySpace profile.

Who knows? I jut love it that the A's can't keep their details straight to any degree. :bang:

AZlawyer
05-29-2009, 07:02 PM
I just think it's kind of "funny" that Casey didn't give Cindy the same birthdate for ZFG as the one Casey had created for the MySpace profile. (Assuming Cindy got that Sept. 1 date from Casey. For all I know she could have made it up on the spot during the depo. That's the only place that Sept. 1 date has been said right?) Anyhoooo - maybe by the time Casey gave Cindy a birthdate she had thought twice about using the MySpace profile as part of her cover up. Maybe she realized it was half baked and could be traced back to her. Or maybe she just forgot what she had put as the birthdate for the MySpace profile.

Who knows? I jut love it that the A's can't keep their details straight to any degree. :bang:

The "September birthday" was what KC originally told LE before she was arrested. I would be surprised if she'd forgotten what she used for the ZG Myspace birthday, if indeed she created that account, because the Myspace birthday was exactly 1 month before KC's and therefore probably picked for the specific purpose of not forgetting it.

But maybe she did think back to her CSI-watching experience and realize that LE would easily trace the Myspace page to her computer...so she didn't mention it to them.

But in that case I wonder why she wouldn't have tried to delete the profile from JB's office so it wouldn't come up when LE was searching for "Zenaidas" in the cities she mentioned.

jjgram
05-29-2009, 07:22 PM
I just think it's kind of "funny" that Casey didn't give Cindy the same birthdate for ZFG as the one Casey had created for the MySpace profile. (Assuming Cindy got that Sept. 1 date from Casey. For all I know she could have made it up on the spot during the depo. That's the only place that Sept. 1 date has been said right?) Anyhoooo - maybe by the time Casey gave Cindy a birthdate she had thought twice about using the MySpace profile as part of her cover up. Maybe she realized it was half baked and could be traced back to her. Or maybe she just forgot what she had put as the birthdate for the MySpace profile.

Who knows? I jut love it that the A's can't keep their details straight to any degree. :bang:

:waitasec:
:confused:
I think KC enjoys confusing :confused: ~ people....

I think she thinks she is just soooooo dang cool...
I think she thinks because she watched C S I Miami that
she is in the TV set and this is a "SHOW about KC" and
she wants to
T W I S T & Tangle and weave the web ^ and down....
and from , < side 2 > side and keep everyone
SEARCHING for the REAL TRUTH>....... > <
when the real truth is this
> KC KILLED CAYLEE< < KC is always LYING ! ! !>

KC Deserves to be punished for her crimes :behindbar
and
the EVIDENCE that LE & FBI have are going to prove it :behindbar

JMO

God Bless !
jjgram

KC is not acquainted with the T R U T H !

one day soon.... KC will be introduced to " ":behindbar:smiliescale::Justice::behindbar "
:rolleyes::Welcome-12-june::bedtime::woohoo::behindbar


JMO
God Bless !
jjgram

JWG
05-29-2009, 09:07 PM
The "September birthday" was what KC originally told LE before she was arrested. I would be surprised if she'd forgotten what she used for the ZG Myspace birthday, if indeed she created that account, because the Myspace birthday was exactly 1 month before KC's and therefore probably picked for the specific purpose of not forgetting it.

But maybe she did think back to her CSI-watching experience and realize that LE would easily trace the Myspace page to her computer...so she didn't mention it to them.

But in that case I wonder why she wouldn't have tried to delete the profile from JB's office so it wouldn't come up when LE was searching for "Zenaidas" in the cities she mentioned.

The fact that she did not delete the page (cancel the account) is quite puzzling to me, given it has no content.

However, when she created the account she needed a real email address. I am wondering, when an account is canceled, is a notification sent to that address?

Perhaps she did not cancel it out of fear that a notification would be sent to the email address she used to create the account?

Just wondering what the motivation would be for logging in on Oct. 14? :waitasec: Thinking she'd cancel the account then pausing because a notice would be sent to an email address she thought might be monitored...then thinking "no, maybe I should change the email on the account"...then pausing because a notice would be sent to an email address she thought might be monitored? :waitasec:

My my what a pickle. Shoulda made up an email when I created the account. :bang:

Maybe just leave well enough alone and hope no one finds it. :rolleyes:

After all, they haven't even found her clothes yet...

MAMABEAR
05-29-2009, 09:53 PM
The "September birthday" was what KC originally told LE before she was arrested. I would be surprised if she'd forgotten what she used for the ZG Myspace birthday, if indeed she created that account, because the Myspace birthday was exactly 1 month before KC's and therefore probably picked for the specific purpose of not forgetting it.

But maybe she did think back to her CSI-watching experience and realize that LE would easily trace the Myspace page to her computer...so she didn't mention it to them.

But in that case I wonder why she wouldn't have tried to delete the profile from JB's office so it wouldn't come up when LE was searching for "Zenaidas" in the cities she mentioned.

Maybe by the time she got access at JB's office (since she had been thrown into another world) she forgot about that My Space.

nssherlock
05-29-2009, 10:39 PM
Quote from JWG...



Your work along with the communications I had with myspace customer reps has brought us to this:

The creation date appears to be authentic and 06/16/08 (day Caylee was last seen).
The last login date appears to be authentic and 10/14/08 (last free day for KC).
The page was set up on 06/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
The page was set up on 06/16/08 with the pic of "Dora the Dancing Doll".
Neither of the above two items (name and pic) have been changed since 06/16/08 because the last updated field shows 06/16/08 (JWG, I believe if you check on this one you will find that there is no evidence of a hack for this date either, so it is authentic as well). If the name or pic had been updated since 06/16/08, this date would have changed.

We know that KC was on the desktop computer around 9 a.m. the morning of the 16th, because she uploaded a pic into her photobucket account. There was activity on the computer off and on through out the morning. There is the possibility (due to KC's cell phone pings being in the area of the Anthony home) that she may have come back for a brief time in the early afternoon, just after GA left for work. But I also have to state I'm not sure this is correct. She may have been at LA's house. Irrespective, KC appears to have created a "zenaida" myspace with a Dora the Dancing Doll on the same day, and prior to the hour, of Caylee's death.

This is why this page has meant so much to me...it is the one piece of potential evidence that points to preparing to "need a zenaida", and at this point, we only have one reason to need a zenaida. If it weren't for this myspace page I would be firmly in the "accidental death and subsequent cover-up" group. But until this myspace is shot down as not being KC, I believe she killed Caylee and she did it with premeditation. As Judge Strickland stated yesterday premeditation only takes seconds...and this myspace shows more time investment than that; ESPECIALLY if it is found to have been created before she left that house the first time.

Awesome........Absolutely Awesome work by all of you geniuses on this thread! God must have sent you to be Caylee's Angels! Thank you to all of you who have worked so hard to find the truth. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

sadyjade
05-29-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm guessing KC created this page in the same manner she created work e-mails (and the like), mostly for CA benefit ... you know how nosey, controlling mothers can be! I would further speculate KC was truly only worried about convincing one person, same as above. In keeping with her past, she was doing a pretty good job of snowing her parents, or at least they pretended too when it served them Rrrrrrrrr!

What was it that she said in her initial police interview about being terrified of her mother?

jjgram
05-29-2009, 11:42 PM
I've been doing some research on the zenaida myspace to be sure I was interpreting dates correctly. If you go to the main profile you see that the last login date is 10/14/08 (the last day KC was free and spent her day at JB's office).

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

And if you go the blog page for this myspace you can see it lists last update and signup date both as 6/16/08 (the day KC left the Anthony house for the last time with Caylee).

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=389838213

The reason understanding whether I'm interpreting these dates correctly is important to me is that if this myspace was set up with the name "zenaida" and with the Dora the Dancing doll pic on the 16th of June, and if it was set up by KC prior to something happening to Caylee, it is evidence of premeditation of at least planning to tell a "zenaida" story, and at most of a planned murder. But if the myspace was set up (even by KC) on the 16th as another name and then later changed to "zenaida", it could be interpreted differently (i.e. KC trying to divert LE attention toward a "Miami zenaida" - but not necessarily some act reflecting premeditation).

So I contacted myspace (both by email and phone) and asked the following question:



The answer I got was...



Okay, then I found this discussion where some myspace users were tracking what activity actually affects the "last update" field.

http://she-geeks.com/forum/myspace-discussionhelp/myspace-last-update/?wap2

And I worked through them myself because I have a myspace that I really never have done anything with as far as blogging, customizing, etc., so I thought it would be a good "test ground". I have been able to confirm everything these posters state here as far as what updates this field and what doesn't.

So basically what I confirmed is:

that a "name change" (i.e. from something to "zenaida") would change the last update field.

that changing the picture on the profile would change the last update field.

that creating a blog entry will change the last update field.

that deleting a blog entry will NOT change the last update field.

that deleting a picture in the album will NOT change the last update field (as long as it is not the picture selected for the profile, of course).

and that deleting a blog entry will also make the blog page go back to read "You have not posted yet. Try it out, if you don't like it, you can delete whatever you post." as if there never was a blog entry there.

So what we can assume with a great deal of confidence (I'm not going to say 100% confidence) is that:

This myspace was set up on 6/16/08 with the name "zenaida".
It was set up on 6/16/08 with the Dora the Dancing Doll pic as the profile pic.
And if there were any entries in the blog, they would have had to have been made on 6/16/08 (but could have been deleted any time afterward and us not know it.)

:clap::clap::clap:

B R A V O ! ! !:clap::clap::clap:

Wonderful Work !!!

Thank you so very very much ! ! !
This was most helpful !

I appreciate your hard work !!!

Let's ~ ALL ~ stick TOGETHER ~ & see this thru &

CONTINUE TO SEEK ~ JUSTICE~ FOR LITTLE ANGEL C A Y L E E !!!!!

Thanks again !

God Bless !
jjgram

Nagasama
05-30-2009, 12:18 AM
and there was only one picture of her partying after Caylee went missing - the one where she was in a blue dress. Of course, I can't tell which ONE of the dozen pics of KC in the blue dress CA's referring to, but that's the only one.


and isn't one enough?
I'll just fulfill my obligation to Fusian and then get right back to looking for my missing child. She's got a better work ethic than me, I'd have used a personal day................:crazy:

Valhall
05-30-2009, 09:39 AM
JWG or JBJ,

Can I get confirmation that I am reading the analysis of the desktop activity correctly? There was NO activity on the desktop between 9 and 10 a.m. on the morning of June 16th, right? OR was it just low-level?

If it is none, then the photobucket image had to come off her laptop because it got uploaded at 9:47 a.m. That would indicate that you are spot on about the potential of the myspace account being created on the laptop. *thumbs up to you!*

ClockWatcher
05-30-2009, 10:14 AM
JWG or JBJ,

Can I get confirmation that I am reading the analysis of the desktop activity correctly? There was NO activity on the desktop between 9 and 10 a.m. on the morning of June 16th, right? OR was it just low-level?

If it is none, then the photobucket image had to come off her laptop because it got uploaded at 9:47 a.m. That would indicate that you are spot on about the potential of the myspace account being created on the laptop. *thumbs up to you!*

Mornin' Valhall...

I know you're wanting one of the "boy's" for your answer, but...I did recall that there was a question to whether the Encase report was accurate or coincided accurately. It may be that there is a one hour variation as observed here by JBJ:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Computer Forensics

Hope this may be helpful until one or the other can answer you directly.

I appreciate very much all the investigative diligence you all have poured in to this matter!! Y'all rock! :woohoo:

BondJamesBond
05-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Mornin' Valhall...

I know you're wanting one of the "boy's" for your answer, but...I did recall that there was a question to whether the Encase report was accurate or coincided accurately. It may be that there is a one hour variation as observed here by JBJ:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Computer Forensics (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3723917&postcount=340)

Hope this may be helpful until one or the other can answer you directly.

I appreciate very much all the investigative diligence you all have poured in to this matter!! Y'all rock! :woohoo:

Clockwatcher...:blowkiss: you're a great example of what rocks 'bout WS. :rocker:

Still workin' on some validation 'bout the Encase report. Or should I say JWG's looking into it. He observed some additional things and is working on a way to validate'em. It would be nice if everything kinda lined up simply...but of course...it rarely does.

That being said...per the post you linked...I still haven't seen anything to convince me that the time-shift on the Encase report doesn't exist. I'll defer to JWG's comments when he gets a chance.

JWG
05-30-2009, 11:17 AM
Clockwatcher...:blowkiss: you're a great example of what rocks 'bout WS. :rocker:

Still workin' on some validation 'bout the Encase report. Or should I say JWG's looking into it. He observed some additional things and is working on a way to validate'em. It would be nice if everything kinda lined up simply...but of course...it rarely does.

That being said...per the post you linked...I still haven't seen anything to convince me that the time-shift on the Encase report doesn't exist. I'll defer to JWG's comments when he gets a chance.

Unfortunately, still waiting for the tools needed to figure that one out.

MidAtlanticNative
05-30-2009, 11:58 AM
I'm beyond impressed by the logical and thorough dissection of the Zenaida MySpace profile. I had no idea so much data could be gleaned using the methods you've all used here. Kudos!

Here's a thought: Let's assume Casey's defense continues to perpetuate the claim that Caylee was taken by someone named Zenaida. Let's also assume the State presents evidence at trial proving this particular MySpace account was created using one of the Anthony computers. What will be the defense's rebuttal/response? That Zenaida used one of the computers herself (either with or without consent)? That Casey, because she and Zenaida were such great girlfriends, helped Zenaida create a MySpace profile? Or created it for Zenaida at Zenaida's request?

Makes me wonder, because it seems like Casey has an answer for everything. I'd love to know if this issue has been discussed among Casey, JB, et al.

MAMABEAR
05-30-2009, 11:59 AM
JWG or JBJ,

Can I get confirmation that I am reading the analysis of the desktop activity correctly? There was NO activity on the desktop between 9 and 10 a.m. on the morning of June 16th, right? OR was it just low-level?

If it is none, then the photobucket image had to come off her laptop because it got uploaded at 9:47 a.m. That would indicate that you are spot on about the potential of the myspace account being created on the laptop. *thumbs up to you!*

Could it be that she was on Lee's puter--or the laptop at his apt? If this question sounds odd then please forgive me because I just woke up and may be off in left field. Thanks

Valhall
05-30-2009, 12:03 PM
Okay, super cool stuff! You know this time error is plaguing us in all directions. The same type of error happened between LE's comparison of the photobucket data and the IP activity. *sigh* Hopefully they have re-requested the IP activity to the shifted times.

I have a question concerning your work with the ENCASE data. Have you been able to validate that the % listed is, in fact, % of the hour versus % of CPU usages?

Thank you all very much!

Valhall
05-30-2009, 12:05 PM
Could it be that she was on Lee's puter--or the laptop at his apt? If this question sounds odd then please forgive me because I just woke up and may be off in left field. Thanks

It is a definite possibility, mama. There is even the possibility that she went to a library or internet cafe. That's why getting the myspace logs is imperative!

BondJamesBond
05-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Okay, super cool stuff! You know this time error is plaguing us in all directions. The same type of error happened between LE's comparison of the photobucket data and the IP activity. *sigh* Hopefully they have re-requested the IP activity to the shifted times.

I have a question concerning your work with the ENCASE data. Have you been able to validate that the % listed is, in fact, % of the hour versus % of CPU usages?

Thank you all very much!

:bang: Sorry to mislead you w/ the %=time speculation. I didn't make it clear in that post that was speculation. When I went back to clarify it...time had expired for me to edit the post. :slap:

Something else to add to the ":doh:-things-I've-done" list. :)

FWIW, I have faith LE's requested the IP info. Yuri's first-class. :thumb: I'm sure when he visits WS he gets a good chuckle outta our stumblin' 'round in the dark.

ETA: I know I get a good chuckle when I think 'bout the defense having to reverse-engineer some of this stuff the way we do, IYKWIM. LE & SA might say somethin' like, "Oh...gee? :waitasec: Off by an hour or two? Oh...man...we must've accidentally goofed when we set up the search parameters on the report. Sorry 'bout that. ;). You're right...here...here's the report the way it should've appeared. :deal: " I hate it when that happens. :)

Valhall
05-30-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm going to pop over to the computer forensic thread so that we can talk.

Valhall
05-30-2009, 02:18 PM
Okay, I laugh out loud at myself. hahaha

While I'm lamenting the error LE made about the time differences between the photobucket image upload and the IP activity...I made the same damned mistake.

lol

Okay, the photobucket data is provided in Mountain Time. The single image upload by KC on the morning of 6/16 occurred at 9:27 a.m. MT. There is a TWO hour difference between MT and ET this time of year. So that places the upload at 11:27 a.m. "KC-time".

Looking at the EnCase data (which I feel confident we have now got a handle on), there was no activity on the laptop in the latter part of the 11th hour on 6/16, but there was on the desktop. Lots of activity. So she was on the desktop at this time. In addition, I'd like to point out that from 10 a.m. to just before noon there was a great deal of activity on the desktop which included the creation of a number of new files.

Could this be the period of time where the "zenaida" myspace was created???

cecybeans
05-30-2009, 02:38 PM
I'm beyond impressed by the logical and thorough dissection of the Zenaida MySpace profile. I had no idea so much data could be gleaned using the methods you've all used here. Kudos!

Here's a thought: Let's assume Casey's defense continues to perpetuate the claim that Caylee was taken by someone named Zenaida. Let's also assume the State presents evidence at trial proving this particular MySpace account was created using one of the Anthony computers. What will be the defense's rebuttal/response? That Zenaida used one of the computers herself (either with or without consent)? That Casey, because she and Zenaida were such great girlfriends, helped Zenaida create a MySpace profile? Or created it for Zenaida at Zenaida's request?

Makes me wonder, because it seems like Casey has an answer for everything. I'd love to know if this issue has been discussed among Casey, JB, et al.

If KC and "Zenaida" are shown to be one and the same in court (based on the research and speculation in this thread) , it probably won't matter much and nobody will be looking to KC for any kind of answer, imo.

kew17
05-30-2009, 02:49 PM
The fact that she did not delete the page (cancel the account) is quite puzzling to me, given it has no content.

However, when she created the account she needed a real email address. I am wondering, when an account is canceled, is a notification sent to that address?

Perhaps she did not cancel it out of fear that a notification would be sent to the email address she used to create the account?

Just wondering what the motivation would be for logging in on Oct. 14? :waitasec: Thinking she'd cancel the account then pausing because a notice would be sent to an email address she thought might be monitored...then thinking "no, maybe I should change the email on the account"...then pausing because a notice would be sent to an email address she thought might be monitored? :waitasec:

My my what a pickle. Shoulda made up an email when I created the account. :bang:

Maybe just leave well enough alone and hope no one finds it. :rolleyes:

After all, they haven't even found her clothes yet...

I think this email point is key to this part of you guys' investigation! Yes, she must have an email attached to this MySpace account. If she tries to cancel the account, an email is sent to that email address and the cancellation must be completed from the email via a click=thru. I agree with your assumption that she didn't want to leave breadcrumbs on a particular email on the date of 10/14/08 and felt it best to leave well enough alone.

Valhall
05-30-2009, 03:02 PM
I think this email point is key to this part of you guys' investigation! Yes, she must have an email attached to this MySpace account. If she tries to cancel the account, an email is sent to that email address and the cancellation must be completed from the email via a click=thru. I agree with your assumption that she didn't want to leave breadcrumbs on a particular email on the date of 10/14/08 and felt it best to leave well enough alone.

You know...I think you guys are on to something. I wondered why she would do something so ridiculous as access this myspace again from JB's office. But when I consider that she is sitting there finding out she has been indicted (or about to be) she probably panicked. Then she thought - I've got to get rid of that myspace, when she started the deletion process she realized the email conundrum...and that she was truly screwed.

kew17
05-30-2009, 03:05 PM
It is also interesting to note that MySpace accounts have automatic counters that reveal how many visits have been made to the account. (This feature can be turned off in the control panel of the account) They can be tracked by IP addresses. I use a thing called MixMap that calculates statistics on the visits to my page.

Short story: My BIL's ex was causing some grief with all our MySpace pages and visiting each of our pages upwards of 20 times per day. When we saw the counter of visits ticking up so high, we all added this MixMap to find out just who was coming to our pages each day. Guess she figured it out, cuz she out of the blue stopped visiting our pages. This is how I know that to cancel an account must be done through the email on the account. He forgot his password to his email and was unable to retrieve the cancel email to follow through with deleting his account as a result.

Valhall
05-30-2009, 05:03 PM
Let's talk about the laptop activity graph for a second.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Valhall/laptopactivity.jpg

Okay, on the 16th the laptop is used once at 11 (one file accessed). Then from 1 pm to about 2:40 pm there was activity, but never more than 2 files accessed (mainly one). Then at 4 pm again no more than 2 files accessed in a 20 minute period, but mainly just one. I really believe all three of these periods of activity on the laptop are system activity; not user activity. DEFINITELY not internet activity. Because every time you visit a site you get numerous files created (or modified) on your computer from the temporary internet files, cookies, etc.

Now, let's talk about the desktop activity graph:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Valhall/desktopactivity.jpg

For the 16th, we have 4 periods of major activity that should be important to us as far as what KC could have been doing prior to leaving the house. (And, yes, this is taking GA's account at face value that they left on the 16th at 12:50 p.m.) Any of these 4 periods are indicative of surfing the net, etc.

First period from midnight to 1 a.m.:
This is GA. How do I know, because with these two days back to back we can get GA's pattern down. He goes to work at 3 p.m., works until 11 p.m. comes home, gets on the computer and surfs most of the night away. It appears he probably goes to bed some time up in the morning (i.e. on the 17th around 5 a.m.), gets 7 hours sleep, gets up right before noon and then gets back on the computer (or watches his cooking show).

Second period from 7 to 9 a.m.:
This is most likely CA. GA is most likely asleep. It appears she gets up around 6 a.m., surfs a bit until almost 9, and then goes to work.

Third period from 10 a.m. to Noon:
This is just got to be KC. CA is at work, GA is most likely still asleep at 10 a.m. [EDIT: GA could have been up by 10 on this day.] We know that KC is uploading pics to photobucket during this time as well as doing a couple of im's, if I remember right. This activity shows a lot of new files being created. This would be indicative of loading pics on to your computer, and also indicative of visiting websites you may never have been to before (i.e. no cached files available for them, no previous cookies, etc.)

Fourth period from 1 p.m to 3 p.m:
This is most likely GA. If we go with GA's account, KC and Caylee have just left and he just finished his "cooking show". He gets on the computer and does whatever it is he does until time to head to work. There is no computer activity for the hours that GA is at work. The computer is not used again until after 11 (when GA gets home).

Looks like 10 a.m. to noon would be our best bet on when the myspace account was created (if it was, indeed, created by KC).

cecybeans
05-30-2009, 05:10 PM
Valhall, excellent work (again). What bothers me is how likely it is for GA to be asleep very late in the morning each of these days anywhere from 10 am until noon. It certainly explains why there is an absence of his discussing who got Caylee up each day and fed her breakfast, etc, particularly on the 16th. It may also explain that Caylee herself may have had odd hours for a child that age; allowed to stay up late each night and expected to sleep in late in the morning so as not to bother either a sleeping GA or sleeping KC, as it's evident that CA was likely at work by the time any of them were awake.

Valhall
05-30-2009, 05:15 PM
Valhall, excellent work (again). What bothers me is how likely it is for GA to be asleep very late in the morning each of these days anywhere from 10 am until noon. It certainly explains why there is an absence of his discussing who got Caylee up each day and fed her breakfast, etc, particularly on the 16th. It may also explain that Caylee herself may have had odd hours for a child that age; allowed to stay up late each night and expected to sleep in late in the morning so as not to bother either a sleeping GA or sleeping KC, as it's evident that CA was likely at work by the time any of them were awake.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling she led not only a very short, but also very odd little life. Sad to think about.

Now, on the 16th, George got off the computer about 1 a.m. So it is possible he went to bed around that time or within an hour of that. He may have been up at 10 a.m. on the 16th. So we still have to give that some of the activity from 10 to noon could have been George. But KC wasn't using her laptop for surfing and that's for sure. And we know she did the photobucket during this time frame, so some where in that two hours she spent some internet time on the desktop.

waiting4change
05-30-2009, 07:14 PM
Is this something that may eventually be leaked through a doc dump? Do you think that LA have contacted myspace to see what email address was used to make up this "phony" ZG page? Sorry if these questions do not belong here. I cannot wait until we get the answers.:behindbar

cecybeans
05-30-2009, 07:33 PM
Yeah, I'm getting the feeling she led not only a very short, but also very odd little life. Sad to think about.

Now, on the 16th, George got off the computer about 1 a.m. So it is possible he went to bed around that time or within an hour of that. He may have been up at 10 a.m. on the 16th. So we still have to give that some of the activity from 10 to noon could have been George. But KC wasn't using her laptop for surfing and that's for sure. And we know she did the photobucket during this time frame, so some where in that two hours she spent some internet time on the desktop.

This fact also makes it reasonable to assume that both GA and CA would not think anything out of the ordinary if they got up and the door to KC's room was closed and Caylee could be assumed to be sleeping (long after most toddlers are awake). It may also mean that, if CA was not telling the truth about hearing them "breathing" before she left to go to work, that KC could have left the house some time very late at night or early in the morning and returned before 10 am as well, with or without Caylee (perhaps telling GA she had already dropped her off at the "nanny's".

I still find it odd that GA's detailed description of what Caylee was wearing on the 16th magically seems to match KC's original police report in which she insists that is what Caylee is wearing on June 9. It is true he could have done this from memory, but he could have also consulted with KC afterward to corroborate. It's one of those things which might go either way given what we actually do know about proximity from pings and computer activity. I still tend to believe that the truth and the Anthonys are strangers unless it is self-serving.

Valhall
05-30-2009, 07:58 PM
Is this something that may eventually be leaked through a doc dump? Do you think that LA have contacted myspace to see what email address was used to make up this "phony" ZG page? Sorry if these questions do not belong here. I cannot wait until we get the answers.:behindbar

I can assure you that I am prayerfully waiting for the moment something on this is released in discovery. It doesn't matter which way the evidence goes, I just want to know the truth about this.

Noddy
05-31-2009, 11:19 PM
Very nice! When I had first found the myspace account I had researched hacks and found that you could obscure dates, but did not find where you could actually fake them...so you had me scared! But I had gone line by line through the source code on both pages (main and blog) comparing it to my own myspace (which I had never changed) and didn't find anything that appeared to show hacks in place.

As far as timeline. I first posted about this myspace over on my hubbie's website in January. Since the administrator over there is a friggin' Google-search optimizing guru, they COULD have found it on the returns within a week probably. I did not contact LE until the day the age rolled over because I wanted to know the birthdate associated with the account before contacting them. So I emailed OCSO (the general cayleeanthonycase@ocfl.net account) on February 19th, as well as Mark Fuhrman. Some one later provided me Yuri's email and I emailed it direct to him on March 1st.

Thank you for your work on this! It makes me feel this page has been validated (as best we non-subpoena-powered people can!)

The investigation you, JWG and others have done on the Zenaida MySpace is, to say the least, fantastic. I have one question that will show my ignorance about the workings of MySpace but I'm really puzzled. There is a comment left with a Video on 'Zenaida's Video Channel Comments. It was posted on March 2, 2009 by a Ronald of Mississippi. It basically states that he knows the profile belongs to KC. How does a person leave a video and a comment on a private profile? If there is a really obvious answer to this, my apologies in advance. Thank you.

kew17
06-01-2009, 12:13 AM
Noddy, very interesting find! :clap: Good sleuth'n! :applause:I never thought to check her video channel. I'm no MySpace expert, but to share what knowledge I do have: no one can leave her a comment unless you are her "friend". In order to be her "friend", she must accept your request. Obviously, she's in no position to be adding any. You can, however, leave comments in this video channel section, even if you are not a "friend". She has no videos posted. Her page is not private, so her pics and videos are available for all to see, including comments left in that section. This fellow in Miss has figured this out.

On my personal MySpace page, in the video channel section, I don't have any personal videos loaded, but after watching some that others have posted, I added a few to my favorites by hitting "add to my favorites". Those are the only ones that show on "my video channel".

Hope this helps! :blowkiss:

EDIT: Just to add another note, the video of the singing in a church is from the guy in Miss. If you click on his name or pic from this page (video channel section) it takes you to "his" videos. If you were say, looking at someone's page and he was listed as a friend and you clicked on his pic, it would take you to his profile. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the assumption that the video channel sections are not private, even if your profile is.

Valhall
06-01-2009, 06:01 AM
The investigation you, JWG and others have done on the Zenaida MySpace is, to say the least, fantastic. I have one question that will show my ignorance about the workings of MySpace but I'm really puzzled. There is a comment left with a Video on 'Zenaida's Video Channel Comments. It was posted on March 2, 2009 by a Ronald of Mississippi. It basically states that he knows the profile belongs to KC. How does a person leave a video and a comment on a private profile? If there is a really obvious answer to this, my apologies in advance. Thank you.

The video page seems to be set up to where anyone can comment. I just tried it and it popped up a window for me to enter a comment and I'm not a friend on the zenaida myspace page. That Ronald dude didn't leave a video, he just left a comment in the video section.

~ Amy ~
06-01-2009, 11:54 AM
Assumming all this KC / Zenaida myspace is factual:

Is it possible the defense can argue that the zenaida myspace profile was set up by KC , b/c "zanny" didn't have a clue on how to set an account up , so "invisible zanny" asked KC to make the myspace account for her and the next time KC brought Caylee over to be babysat, then KC could show "invisi-zanny" how to access /use it ?

Or ,what if KC set the zenaida myspace acct. up from one of her (lets just say friends')computers w/o their knowledge , and KC was e-mailing the fictious zanny from the A's , and then traveling to whomevers residence the acct. may have been set up at , so that she could reply back to herself. I mean , all KC would have to say is she needed to use their pc to check and see if her "fake boss at her fake job" e-mailed her , and I am sure they let her do w/e she needed to do....all of KC's friends were oblivious to the "real KC". Heck , AH went as far as to loan KC her car and even fill it up in gas , so KC could have transportation while she & the other friends were on their PR trip. So, I have no reason to believe that they would not allow KC access to their computers if she needed to use one. It wouldn't take 5 mins. to compose an e-mail to herself from invisible zanny-nanny and log out. If in fact , that is what occurred, it is untelling what those e-mails contain. Maybe the long lost script was in one of them (LOL) " the don't go to the police", "the famous changed password", "the I'm going to teach you a lesson", "the go party down at Fusian" , "write checks on your friend" , "shop at Target" ,"get a new tattoo" and on and on and on. Okay , I will quit my rambling ,which BTW I'm sorry for doing and ask my question.

Could the defense drag that person(s) in , b/c the myspace acct. was set up on their IP address and e-mails / comments etc. were sent and recieved , so therefore casting reasonable doubt?

Thanks to all of you on here!!

cecybeans
06-01-2009, 01:32 PM
Assumming all this KC / Zenaida myspace is factual:

Is it possible the defense can argue that the zenaida myspace profile was set up by KC , b/c "zanny" didn't have a clue on how to set an account up , so "invisible zanny" asked KC to make the myspace account for her and the next time KC brought Caylee over to be babysat, then KC could show "invisi-zanny" how to access /use it ?

Or ,what if KC set the zenaida myspace acct. up from one of her (lets just say friends')computers w/o their knowledge , and KC was e-mailing the fictious zanny from the A's , and then traveling to whomevers residence the acct. may have been set up at , so that she could reply back to herself. I mean , all KC would have to say is she needed to use their pc to check and see if her "fake boss at her fake job" e-mailed her , and I am sure they let her do w/e she needed to do....all of KC's friends were oblivious to the "real KC". Heck , AH went as far as to loan KC her car and even fill it up in gas , so KC could have transportation while she & the other friends were on their PR trip. So, I have no reason to believe that they would not allow KC access to their computers if she needed to use one. It wouldn't take 5 mins. to compose an e-mail to herself from invisible zanny-nanny and log out. If in fact , that is what occurred, it is untelling what those e-mails contain. Maybe the long lost script was in one of them (LOL) " the don't go to the police", "the famous changed password", "the I'm going to teach you a lesson", "the go party down at Fusian" , "write checks on your friend" , "shop at Target" ,"get a new tattoo" and on and on and on. Okay , I will quit my rambling ,which BTW I'm sorry for doing and ask my question.

Could the defense drag that person(s) in , b/c the myspace acct. was set up on their IP address and e-mails / comments etc. were sent and recieved , so therefore casting reasonable doubt?

Thanks to all of you on here!!

That's an interesting thought - and it looks like JB already wanted RM's computer for the very reason of implicating him based on the chloroform stuff. I sure hope not, there has already been enough collateral damage for KC's friends. While I'd think this would produce doubt, at this point I'd say the defense would have a hard time making it look reasonable in nature.

BondJamesBond
06-01-2009, 03:12 PM
FWIW...not oft cited...but IMHO, the incoming MS notifications Casey received on her cell phone give us some potential clues as to when Casey may have been engaged in MS activity. Looking specifically @ 6/16:


6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

...I say potential clues, because these alerts may have been the result of something Casey did directly on her MS page (e.g. updated a profile) or indirectly (e.g. a response from someone else on MS to something Casey left on their page).

Looking into this further...I have record of 6 different types of MS alerts that Casey received to her cell phone. IF (speculation) each alert-type is unique to a specific type of MS activity (e.g. profile change, wall message, etc.) then we have a little information available that we can look into :sleuth:.

When I looked @ the breakdown of frequency of receipt vs. type I get the following:


Alert Type/Frequency 6/1-7/17:
1697721 2
1697723 9
1697722 60
1697724 70
1697720 71

From this, I speculate the *22, *24, *20 alerts are prolly the result of common MS activity (e.g. friend left a message, commented on something, etc.). Further, the 2 instances of *21 alerts resulted on 7/16 ~10PM & 7/17 ~8AM. Since these happened after word started to get out re: Caylee being missing I speculate they are unique codes that aren't of interest at the moment...perhaps system messages due to high volume, etc.

This leaves *23 alerts. The 9 instances of *23 alerts happened:


6/4/08 WED 9:16:07 AM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/4/08 WED 1:16:32 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/17/08 TUE 8:23:32 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/23/08 MON 8:09:33 AM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/23/08 MON 12:25:19 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/23/08 MON 12:26:27 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/24/08 TUE 12:40:28 AM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
7/8/08 TUE 8:41:34 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723

I highlighted the 6/16 instance in blue FYI to consider the following. The first instance of receiving a *23 alert was on 6/4 and was the 3rd-ever Myspace alert (of any type) Casey received on her phone in the records we have (6/1-7/17 period). Now...we don't know if Casey set-up her alert-to-phone on 6/3 or before. But, IF she set them up for the first time 6/3...then we'd have something in the above that would suggest a new alert-to-phone was set-up 6/16...and subsequently altered (or others set-up) 6/17, 6/23, 6/24 and 7/8. So...I'm out on a limb here w/ speculation...pls recognize that...:poke: Turning OFF an alert-to-phone might be one reason for a post-arrest visit to the alleged ZG MS page...as late as 10/14...maybe...maybe not.

Going a step further out on that same limb :poke:...:bang:

I looked @ the Fb alerts to Casey's cell phone. Because this is getting long..I won't go into the details. In summary, I have 21 unique Fb Alert types :rolleyes: Many of them are onesee-twosee's so...it is difficult to determine if these are of any significance...still...one of these is code *187.

The two instances of *187 are:


6/6/08 FRI 8:58:29 PM
6/16/08 MON 4:53:33 PM

OK...by 4:53PM 6/16 we know Casey had been gone from G&C's for ~40mins. :waitasec: I'd love to have a look @ her Fb records now to see what might've triggered this *187 alert. The only clue we have is that the only other instance of this type of alert was when she'd just arrived @ Fusian 6/6PM...:waitasec: Maybe nothing...maybe nothing @ all...I've cherry-picked out this *187 alert because of the 6/16 timing...so I dunno. Something to think about. Perhaps the *187 alert provides some evidence of Casey using her cell phone to access her Fb account for something :waitasec:

On (yet another) slightly related tangent...

I noted earlier...although haven't posted before...per evidence page 2679...Casey's deleted MS messages span 4/25-7/3

Consider that Casey's alert-to-phone messages from Facebook STOPPED 7/4 @ 3:08AM. :eek:

:waitasec: Hmmmm...

Anyone go looking for a Zenaida Fb account?

Now...if Casey had been posing as ZG on Fb or MS and sending visible messages to Casey's Fb or MS...well...someone would've remembered that...so I don't think that happened.

But I am curious...if Casey set-up a bogus ZG MS account...did she set up a bogus ZG Fb account too? Was there something about the timing of the deleted MS messages and the ceasing of Fb alerts to Casey's phone? :waitasec:

JWG
06-01-2009, 04:11 PM
Doing a little surfing, it appears 1697724 (or 697724) is used by myspace to notify the recipient that someone has posted a message on their myspace.

JWG
06-01-2009, 04:36 PM
Found a page describing what alerts one can specify that they receive or not receive when signing up for Myspace Mobile:

- Friend Requests
- Blog Comments
- Profile Comments
- Image Comments
- New Messages
- Event Invites

I have determined 697724 is used for New Messages. Looking at the cell logs, I see the bulk of 697720 come after the case news broke, and I am guessing it is people trying to friend KC on Myspace.

Hmmmm....looking at the order of the above list with the two known numbers:

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments
- Profile Comments
- Image Comments
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites

Maybe I can just fill things in order??

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments 697721
- Profile Comments 697722
- Image Comments 697723
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites 697725

Just guessing...

BondJamesBond
06-01-2009, 05:02 PM
Found a page describing what alerts one can specify that they receive or not receive when signing up for Myspace Mobile:

- Friend Requests
- Blog Comments
- Profile Comments
- Image Comments
- New Messages
- Event Invites

I have determined 697724 is used for New Messages. Looking at the cell logs, I see the bulk of 697720 come after the case news broke, and I am guessing it is people trying to friend KC on Myspace. *snipped for space*

OT...know you'll appreciate the analogy of the relay race :) Glad you're running anchor :thumb:

jjgram
06-01-2009, 07:38 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

T H A N K S ! ! ! ! !
You Guys & Gals R AWESOME ! ! ! ! !
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

now see..... this G R R R R R R R R E A T Websleuthing......

How can anyone say we come from monkeys....

YA ' LL are ANSWERS TO MANY :praying: PRAYERS
And I just ~ KNOW ~ GOD ~ SENT YOU TO HELP LITTLE ANGEL CAYLEE ! ! ! !

YA'LL R # 1 in my Books & These GRRRRRRREAT Minds...
Ya'll have working on figuring this ~ ALL ~ out are simply

AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks so VERY ~ V E R Y ~ Much for HELPING to
SEEK ~ JUSTICE ~ For Little ANGEL ~ C A Y L E E ! ! !

I :praying: :praying: :praying:
You will Continue the EXCELLENT WORK ! ! !:blowkiss:

I appreciate your WONDERFUL & Hard Work !!!!!

GOD BLESS !
jjgram

**** Just dang Proud to KNOW ~ YA ' LL ! ! !

Nagasama
06-04-2009, 01:12 AM
This is the most interesting thread in the whole case! I look for it every time I log on!

JWG
06-04-2009, 08:28 AM
Maybe I can just fill things in order??

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments 697721
- Profile Comments 697722
- Image Comments 697723
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites 697725

Just guessing...

Calls come in from 697721 only twice:

7/16/08 10:06:00 PM
7/17/08 8:47:12 AM

The first is eight hours or so after Lee changed KC's myspace page into the "Caylee is Missing" myspace page. Seems to fit with being blog comments.

BondJamesBond
06-04-2009, 09:16 AM
Calls come in from 697721 only twice:

7/16/08 10:06:00 PM
7/17/08 8:47:12 AM

The first is eight hours or so after Lee changed KC's myspace page into the "Caylee is Missing" myspace page. Seems to fit with being blog comments.

Agreed.

I originally thought perhaps it had something to do the volume of incoming messages, etc., but, after seeing your code# list it does fit w/ Lee taking over the site.

Details more appropriate for the Myspace thread and will take it up there.

BondJamesBond
06-04-2009, 09:34 AM
Looking specifically @ 6/16:


6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 169722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

This leaves *23 alerts. The 9 instances of *23 alerts happened:


6/17/08 TUE 8:23:32 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723

*snipped*



Maybe I can just fill things in order??

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments 697721
- Profile Comments 697722
- Image Comments 697723
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites 697725

Just guessing...*snipped*

So...scooting back in on that limb a bit :poke:...w/ JWG delivering a good basis for *21=blog now. Here's what it looks like when we bring together the 6/16 & 6/17 MySpace activity...


6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Image Comment

...and...


6/17/08 TUE 8:23:32 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Image Comment

So...lets consider what these specific types of activity might tell us...

My working assumption is that "New Messages" is about the only type of comment that has to come from another user. IOW...an incoming message to Casey's MySpace site from another MySpace user...albeit real (e.g. Amy, Tony, etc.) or imagined (e.g. ZFG). Still assuming...that the other message type alerts could either be the result of Casey's own activity on her MySpace site OR the result of another users activity on it.

Anyone familiar w/ MySpace able to tell us if comments on another users profile are available/common? IOW...when Casey would change, for example, the mood, "about me" comments, on her own profile would these be the changes that would likely fire off an alert to her cell phone advising a profile comment. Are there profile comments other users might make on Casey's profile? If these can be tied only to the MySpace page owner...then, like the "New Messages" type we have a little more to work with regarding Casey's activities.

debs
06-04-2009, 10:01 AM
As I recall, the alerts only come when someone else makes a comment, either on your profile, pics, or maybe on your blog. My son used to get all those alerts all the time until I demanded he take off the feature because his phone would go off at all hours.

JWG
06-04-2009, 10:16 AM
Profile comments are made on the person's home page. They are like visitor messages on WS. RJ Grund has 2500+ comments on his myspace profile, so hopefully for the sanity of his family he does not get text alerts when they occur. :crazy:

Image comments are made by people who can view pictures in a photo album kept on myspace. This is very much like the albums people can keep on WS, where visitors can come in and comment on the images.

Messages are like WS private messages.

Comments placed in any one of the three areas will generate a text message from the uniquely assigned number, letting the recipient know what was done. I believe the comments themselves, or a portion of the comment, are sent in the message along with the identity of the person who posted the comment.

ZubenElSchemali
06-04-2009, 10:24 AM
There is a comment section on the main page and a private message section. If someone sends a request to be a friend it would show as 697720 (docs pg 2875), a comment on her blog would show 297721 as shown on doc page 2880, a comment to the profile it would be shown as 69772 according to docs page 2873 and a private message would come through as 697724 as shown on doc page 2867.

JWG
06-04-2009, 11:02 AM
There is a comment section on the main page and a private message section. If someone sends a request to be a friend it would show as 697720 (docs pg 2875), a comment on her blog would show 297721 as shown on doc page 2880, a comment to the profile it would be shown as 69772 according to docs page 2873 and a private message would come through as 697724 as shown on doc page 2867.

Excellent...the discovery matches our assumptions. :clap: I love it when things come together.

Valhall
06-04-2009, 12:48 PM
Trying to keep up with you busy beavers!!! lol

Hey, can you point me to the source where you go the times for those myspace alert messages? While I do have links to released docs that have myspace alerts, I can't find these particular ones! It's driving me bonkers.

Thanks guys!!!

BondJamesBond
06-04-2009, 03:42 PM
It's driving me bonkers.
*snipped*

:) Mission accomplished! :highfive:

Source=AT&T phone records.

FWIW...re: timestamps on these messages. Started into that w/ a footnote on a post over in the 'deleted myspace messages' thread. See the * at the bottom of my post there. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's deleted myspace messages I don't wanna screw up the ZFG topic w/ details that fit better re: MySpace thread IMHO.

one_hooah_wife
06-04-2009, 06:38 PM
Snipped


Assumming all this KC / Zenaida myspace is factual:

Is it possible the defense can argue that the zenaida myspace profile was set up by KC , b/c "zanny" didn't have a clue on how to set an account up , so "invisible zanny" asked KC to make the myspace account for her and the next time KC brought Caylee over to be babysat, then KC could show "invisi-zanny" how to access /use it ?



Well I would say that explanation wouldn't fly since this Dora the Explorer Zenaida myspace was created up on June 16, 2008 ... the same day that KC says Zenaida took Caylee. Now, she might say that as part of the script she was forced to set up this account to communicate ... in fact that sounds exactly like the half baked explanation that KC in all of her supreme narcissistic glory would expect "us" to buy!


Could the defense drag that person(s) in , b/c the myspace acct. was set up on their IP address and e-mails / comments etc. were sent and received , so therefore casting reasonable doubt?
I hope that they do ... because in order to have a myspace you have to have a valid email account ... email providers collect identifying information like IP and these days most even collect MAC addresses as well ... a MAC address identifies the exact device used ... not just the location of it. You can mask or spoof your MAC address just as you can your IP ... but I don't think that KC was nearly that savvy!

Valhall
06-04-2009, 07:05 PM
*snipped*

:) Mission accomplished! :highfive:

Source=AT&T phone records.

FWIW...re: timestamps on these messages. Started into that w/ a footnote on a post over in the 'deleted myspace messages' thread. See the * at the bottom of my post there. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's deleted myspace messages (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3831879&postcount=48) I don't wanna screw up the ZFG topic w/ details that fit better re: MySpace thread IMHO.

LOL - you're so mean *waaaa*

Hey, what I meant was where did the record that there were myspace alerts on the referenced dates come from?

specifically these...

6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Image Comment

chefmom
06-04-2009, 08:27 PM
FWIW...not oft cited...but IMHO, the incoming MS notifications Casey received on her cell phone give us some potential clues as to when Casey may have been engaged in MS activity. Looking specifically @ 6/16:


6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

...I say potential clues, because these alerts may have been the result of something Casey did directly on her MS page (e.g. updated a profile) or indirectly (e.g. a response from someone else on MS to something Casey left on their page).

Looking into this further...I have record of 6 different types of MS alerts that Casey received to her cell phone. IF (speculation) each alert-type is unique to a specific type of MS activity (e.g. profile change, wall message, etc.) then we have a little information available that we can look into :sleuth:.

When I looked @ the breakdown of frequency of receipt vs. type I get the following:


Alert Type/Frequency 6/1-7/17:
1697721 2
1697723 9
1697722 60
1697724 70
1697720 71

From this, I speculate the *22, *24, *20 alerts are prolly the result of common MS activity (e.g. friend left a message, commented on something, etc.). Further, the 2 instances of *21 alerts resulted on 7/16 ~10PM & 7/17 ~8AM. Since these happened after word started to get out re: Caylee being missing I speculate they are unique codes that aren't of interest at the moment...perhaps system messages due to high volume, etc.

This leaves *23 alerts. The 9 instances of *23 alerts happened:


6/4/08 WED 9:16:07 AM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/4/08 WED 1:16:32 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/17/08 TUE 8:23:32 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/23/08 MON 8:09:33 AM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/23/08 MON 12:25:19 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/23/08 MON 12:26:27 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
6/24/08 TUE 12:40:28 AM INCOMING TEXT 1697723
7/8/08 TUE 8:41:34 PM INCOMING TEXT 1697723

I highlighted the 6/16 instance in blue FYI to consider the following. The first instance of receiving a *23 alert was on 6/4 and was the 3rd-ever Myspace alert (of any type) Casey received on her phone in the records we have (6/1-7/17 period). Now...we don't know if Casey set-up her alert-to-phone on 6/3 or before. But, IF she set them up for the first time 6/3...then we'd have something in the above that would suggest a new alert-to-phone was set-up 6/16...and subsequently altered (or others set-up) 6/17, 6/23, 6/24 and 7/8. So...I'm out on a limb here w/ speculation...pls recognize that...:poke: Turning OFF an alert-to-phone might be one reason for a post-arrest visit to the alleged ZG MS page...as late as 10/14...maybe...maybe not.

Going a step further out on that same limb :poke:...:bang:

I looked @ the Fb alerts to Casey's cell phone. Because this is getting long..I won't go into the details. In summary, I have 21 unique Fb Alert types :rolleyes: Many of them are onesee-twosee's so...it is difficult to determine if these are of any significance...still...one of these is code *187.

The two instances of *187 are:


6/6/08 FRI 8:58:29 PM
6/16/08 MON 4:53:33 PM

OK...by 4:53PM 6/16 we know Casey had been gone from G&C's for ~40mins. :waitasec: I'd love to have a look @ her Fb records now to see what might've triggered this *187 alert. The only clue we have is that the only other instance of this type of alert was when she'd just arrived @ Fusian 6/6PM...:waitasec: Maybe nothing...maybe nothing @ all...I've cherry-picked out this *187 alert because of the 6/16 timing...so I dunno. Something to think about. Perhaps the *187 alert provides some evidence of Casey using her cell phone to access her Fb account for something :waitasec:

On (yet another) slightly related tangent...

I noted earlier...although haven't posted before...per evidence page 2679...Casey's deleted MS messages span 4/25-7/3

Consider that Casey's alert-to-phone messages from Facebook STOPPED 7/4 @ 3:08AM. :eek:

:waitasec: Hmmmm...

Anyone go looking for a Zenaida Fb account?

Now...if Casey had been posing as ZG on Fb or MS and sending visible messages to Casey's Fb or MS...well...someone would've remembered that...so I don't think that happened.

But I am curious...if Casey set-up a bogus ZG MS account...did she set up a bogus ZG Fb account too? Was there something about the timing of the deleted MS messages and the ceasing of Fb alerts to Casey's phone? :waitasec:

Gosh, I love this concept! Ok, JBJ! I am curious about something. Maybe it doesn't really matter, but, still. I am curious as to the time difference, if any, between FL, where KC would have been setting these accounts up, and the host state, wherever MS & FB may be. The reason I ask is that the MS alert on 6/16 is at 3:39:59 PM and the FB alert on 6/16 is at 4:53:33. So, considering that there may be a time difference, these two alerts may have been 1:14:26 apart, or they may just be 14:26 apart. Do you follow where I am going here?

one_hooah_wife
06-04-2009, 09:15 PM
I've been away from this thread for a while ... but I have been continuously searching for any information that I can find on the ZG/Dora MySpace ... recently I came across a program that analyzes the source code of individual webpages. I've been unable to uncover anything of value from this page, however, I just started going through other pages where KC had commented ... there are a few people that haven't made their pages private or deleted KC's posts. From those pages I have uncovered some IP information that might help determine where KC was on particular days at very specific times. If any of you have pages that you would like me to use this pagespy program on I would be happy to. Right now, I am trying to organize the information I have so far.

I also found another MySpace page that I had never seen before ... Sorry if it has been discussed already ... this is for a Zenaida in Orlando 22y/o (but remember that Myspace automatically updates ages based on the given birthday) ... anyway last logon was 5/23/08 which was also the date it was created. I'm thinking that this might have been a page that was made by KC and abandoned for some reason ... there is a picture on this profile.

http://www.myspace.com/383047478

BondJamesBond
06-04-2009, 09:24 PM
LOL - you're so mean *waaaa*

Hey, what I meant was where did the record that there were myspace alerts on the referenced dates come from?

specifically these...

6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Profile Comment
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Image Comment

Those excerpts are from Casey's AT&T phone records, Valhall. When you look @ the raw record they appear as incoming texts, but, rather than coming from an individual phone# (e.g. (###)###-####) they come from a # of another format. There are several of these in the AT&T records. Some come from Facebook, some come from AIM, etc. In the case of MySpace each # string has a specific message type associated with it (e.g. Profile Comment, New Message, etc.).

HTH.

BondJamesBond
06-04-2009, 09:32 PM
Gosh, I love this concept! Ok, JBJ! I am curious about something. Maybe it doesn't really matter, but, still. I am curious as to the time difference, if any, between FL, where KC would have been setting these accounts up, and the host state, wherever MS & FB may be. The reason I ask is that the MS alert on 6/16 is at 3:39:59 PM and the FB alert on 6/16 is at 4:53:33. So, considering that there may be a time difference, these two alerts may have been 1:14:26 apart, or they may just be 14:26 apart. Do you follow where I am going here?

...it does really matter, IMHO, chefmom. ;)

Looking into it now, but, I tried to direct it to the 'deleted myspace messages thread' so as not to muck up the Zenaida thread too much for those not interested in the myspace & Casey activity aspect of this stuff.

Its kinda early to make a definitive statement...but...it appears to me that there is a time delay associated w/ at least the MySpace alerts to Casey's phone. At the moment, IMHO, it doesn't appear to be a delay associated w/ time zone differences (e.g. the Photobucket on Mountain vs. Eastern time effect) but...need a little more time to sort it out. Based on the very limited sample I've been able to check there is def'n a time delay for MySpace...can't say if it is for all of them...just not fit for prime time yet, IYKWIM.

chefmom
06-04-2009, 09:54 PM
...it does really matter, IMHO, chefmom. ;)

Looking into it now, but, I tried to direct it to the 'deleted myspace messages thread' so as not to muck up the Zenaida thread too much for those not interested in the myspace & Casey activity aspect of this stuff.

Its kinda early to make a definitive statement...but...it appears to me that there is a time delay associated w/ at least the MySpace alerts to Casey's phone. At the moment, IMHO, it doesn't appear to be a delay associated w/ time zone differences (e.g. the Photobucket on Mountain vs. Eastern time effect) but...need a little more time to sort it out. Based on the very limited sample I've been able to check there is def'n a time delay for MySpace...can't say if it is for all of them...just not fit for prime time yet, IYKWIM.

Yes, I do! Thanks! IMO, it is going to matter, as well!

:blowkiss:

BondJamesBond
06-05-2009, 02:15 AM
OK...I had to check. The MySpace alerts on the AT&T records are all timestamped +3hrs from when the timestamp appears on the screenshot of the myspace in the released docs. I'm giving some examples in the "deleted myspace" thread so as not to clog this one up more than I already have.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's deleted myspace messages

ZubenElSchemali
06-05-2009, 07:03 AM
OK...I had to check. The MySpace alerts on the AT&T records are all timestamped +3hrs from when the timestamp appears on the screenshot of the myspace in the released docs. I'm giving some examples in the "deleted myspace" thread so as not to clog this one up more than I already have.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's deleted myspace messages (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3835757&postcount=71)

Thank you Bond. This helps a great deal with something I've been working on in my spare time. What do you think of the girl pictured in the Zenaida myspace link? Pretty close to a 10?

BondJamesBond
06-05-2009, 07:42 AM
Thank you Bond. This helps a great deal with something I've been working on in my spare time. What do you think of the girl pictured in the Zenaida myspace link? Pretty close to a 10?

Glad to help, AE.

I'm not touching the rate-a-Zenaida question. I'm just a little smarter than I look...not much...but just enough to spot a lose-lose situation ;)

ZubenElSchemali
06-05-2009, 07:46 AM
Glad to help, AE.

I'm not touching the rate-a-Zenaida question. I'm just a little smarter than I look...not much...but just enough to spot a lose-lose situation ;)

Good job. You passed the test!:blowkiss:

chefmom
06-05-2009, 09:54 AM
Thank you Bond. This helps a great deal with something I've been working on in my spare time. What do you think of the girl pictured in the Zenaida myspace link? Pretty close to a 10?

Naw! To borrow a phrase from CA, "She's cute, but she's not a 10! I'm sorry, but she's not!" Lol!

Jaboom97
06-05-2009, 12:13 PM
I've been away from this thread for a while ... but I have been continuously searching for any information that I can find on the ZG/Dora MySpace ... recently I came across a program that analyzes the source code of individual webpages. I've been unable to uncover anything of value from this page, however, I just started going through other pages where KC had commented ... there are a few people that haven't made their pages private or deleted KC's posts. From those pages I have uncovered some IP information that might help determine where KC was on particular days at very specific times. If any of you have pages that you would like me to use this pagespy program on I would be happy to. Right now, I am trying to organize the information I have so far.

I also found another MySpace page that I had never seen before ... Sorry if it has been discussed already ... this is for a Zenaida in Orlando 22y/o (but remember that Myspace automatically updates ages based on the given birthday) ... anyway last logon was 5/23/08 which was also the date it was created. I'm thinking that this might have been a page that was made by KC and abandoned for some reason ... there is a picture on this profile.

http://www.myspace.com/383047478

I came across this Zenaida myspace profile a while back and thought the same thing. I also noticed there were a few profiles for this particular person which appear were set up and either they forgot about them or forgot login email information. Anyhow, I did find another current page for this individual sometime this past winter and I decided on a whim to friend request this person as it is private, and well within minutes I noticed she had approved this so the snooping begun-however I can't find any real link or ties to Casey, but if someone else was wanting to sleuth well if you friend request she has 1,000's of friends my only idea was maybe she was a club type person because people advertise outings on her comments from time to time-but I looked back in her comments at vital Fusian event days and couldn't see anything, but that's not to say she wasn't there. I also am not sure that she is the ZG22 with the ticket-but she is 22 and her zodiac sign listed is Sagittarius. If anyone is curious her myspace profile is:

http://www.myspace.com/zztigrezamala19z

It's the same ZG as photos from the other ZG 22 is on this myspace page as she has lots and lots of self portraits.(She also appears to have a little girl as well.) My Spanish fluency is somewhat not as good as it used to be but it appears recently that she just lost a loved one-perhaps a grandmother. OH btw it also appears she is originally from Puerto Rico.

SideKick
06-05-2009, 02:22 PM
I just posted about the source code for this myspace.. my post is now gone.
Why?


http://www.myspace.com/zztigrezamala19z

april_showers
06-05-2009, 03:48 PM
I'm guessing KC created this page in the same manner she created work e-mails (and the like), mostly for CA benefit ... you know how nosey, controlling mothers can be! I would further speculate KC was truly only worried about convincing one person, same as above. In keeping with her past, she was doing a pretty good job of snowing her parents, or at least they pretended too when it served them Rrrrrrrrr!

What was it that she said in her initial police interview about being terrified of her mother?

I am gonna have to agree... My instinct tells me she set up this page with the intention of friending KC's profile, making Z's page private [meaning anyone other than KC would only see the Dora picture, age, and location... and would not be aware that 'Zenaida's' only friend was KC and there was NO comments, photos or other activity on her page..]. Then 'Zenaida' could leave random comments on KC's page. "Sorry, stuck in Miami an extra night..." / "Just wanted to let you know that Caylee is LOVING the beach LOL" / "Caylee can't wait to see her mommy. XXOX" / etc, etc, etc.

At this point KC had just started disappearing more. Cindy was making her presence much more visible on Myspace, and we can all assume began to regularly "stalk" KC's page to get more info on what she was up to. What a perfect way for KC to get Cindy off her back! Given Cindy and George's penchance for taking things ridiculously at face value, it actually may have worked to appease Cindy for a short while. "Look! Our Caylee is fine - it says so right there!" However, for whatever reason, KC never followed though. Maybe she got too caught up in her life with Tony to bother. Maybe she realized her lies were too complex to expose specifics on myspace (i.e. if she told Tony Caylee was with her mom, she couldn't throw up a myspace post from Zani about Caylee's day).

I don't think she ever intended this to be police-level evidence. Even KC is bright enough to realize how quickly a hole could be poked through that one. But then again, I still don't think KC ever thought police would be even remotely involved...

JWG - you mentioned earlier about email addresses and not cancelling the page because of an email notification. However, I believe you need to go into your email to physically activate the page once it's created (if I recall - a link is sent to your inbox). My guess is that she created a fake email solely for this purpose, used it the one time to activate the account... then perhaps had no recollection of the password months later (?). Perhaps that's why this page remained active, even when she knew it would be available for public scrutiny...

Tom'sGirl
06-05-2009, 03:51 PM
I just posted about the source code for this myspace.. my post is now gone.
Why?
Your post blew the margin.

Chiquita71
06-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Hello WS;)

I know you are all busy figuring out the myspace page information and it is amazing.

I am reading transcrips, right now I am on George. I was reading because I wanted to know about the "gas can day". Here in his statement on GVS I find that GEORGE talks about the nanny! This surprises me. I don't know if he is saying this after the fact or if Casey was really telling him about a nanny before Caylee disappeared. I knew he had said that as they left for work on June16th that Casey said she would be dropping Caylee at the nanny's and imo he made up the story because he says in many statements and this one to FBI(I knew for two years she didn't have a job)but I did not know he added the "nanny" to his story of gas can day.

GA: ...This is about 2:25, 2:30 in the afternoon on the 24th. As she comes in the house, and I said, hey, how're you doing? And she says: "fine, dad." I says, well, what's going on? And she says, "oh, I'm just stopping home for about 10 minutes, to get some clothes. I got to go back to work." Where's Caylee? "She's with Zanny." And I said, okay, when are you guys coming home?

Casey was using the nanny/zanny when she need to: for RG, both Casey and Cindy told SP, she would tell George and she told several friends that Caylee was places with the "nanny": beach, Disney, etc...

What George and Cindy are covering up about the Nanny is that they never bothered to check up and find out about "this" nanny who was spending so much time with their granddaughter. Now, if you read between the lines you can see that it was easier to take what Casey was saying as truth for them than to confront her...

as we have seen in this whole case. From this statement to GVS George knew it was Casey that took the gas cans and when she showed up on the 24th he was 'tricking' her.

Casey: "Oh, by the way, its a shame what happened in the shed..."

GA: "Really?"

Casey: "Yes"

GA: "Interesting. By the way, I'm getting ready to rotate your mom's tires on her car..."

George goes on to try and get in the trunk and Casey has a problem with that...

As a thought that could be really wrong: maybe Annie down played Casey using "Zanny/Nanny" because her lawyer told her not to get too deep into it because of the depo. Like...maybe the real ZG would have to hold her more responsible or something because Annie was giving info. Like...give as little info as you have to and then it will be over for you. I would understand(in a way)if she did this...because I just think Annie has to know more. There are pictures of her with Caylee when she was very small(from the evidence pics on Casey/Caylee's door and walls of rooms)...and there are more of her with Caylee than even George or Cindy. I know these are chosen pics of many many more...but what you chose speaks...Annie with Caylee.

I don't think Annie had anything to do with this...and that is why she probably does not tell all she knows...or will tell more at trial. I wish the trial would start...

...jmo...I:dance:WS:

maryaok
06-07-2009, 06:22 PM
I just want to ask if anyone agrees with me that the whole zanny gig was up when she told her parents in jail that "Zanny had everything for Caylee, toys, shoes, clothes, diapers, you name it...." For me, I knew the gig was up then, because if that were true, if Casey knew that, then I would assume that she had seen it all at Zanny's apartment, and if she had seen the apartment, she would have brought the police to a legitimate apartment to show them where all this stuff had been. She never did. Because she couldn't, because there was no apartment, and no Zanny. Further, the person supposed to have introduced her to Zanny said there was no such person. So, to me, its seems very evident that there is no question that there never was a Zanny the Nanny.

steadychick
06-07-2009, 10:02 PM
I just want to ask if anyone agrees with me that the whole zanny gig was up when she told her parents in jail that "Zanny had everything for Caylee, toys, shoes, clothes, diapers, you name it...." For me, I knew the gig was up then, because if that were true, if Casey knew that, then I would assume that she had seen it all at Zanny's apartment, and if she had seen the apartment, she would have brought the police to a legitimate apartment to show them where all this stuff had been. She never did. Because she couldn't, because there was no apartment, and no Zanny. Further, the person supposed to have introduced her to Zanny said there was no such person. So, to me, its seems very evident that there is no question that there never was a Zanny the Nanny.

Thank you for pointing out the fact that KC would have seen Zanny's apt, but couldn't produce a legitimate place. I hadn't thought along these lines before. And remember all those times she claimed to have stayed with Zanny after a late night at work. And no one just picks up and drops off their two year old outside a residence and never goes in.

maryaok
06-08-2009, 12:40 PM
And remember all those times she claimed to have stayed with Zanny after a late night at work.


You got it! That's right! If she'd stayed there, she could point a legitimate apartment out!

She puts her own foot in her own pile of it. If they don't lay the whole Zanny balogna to rest first thing in court, then I don't know what!

Gma Kat
06-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Thank you for pointing out the fact that KC would have seen Zanny's apt, but couldn't produce a legitimate place. I hadn't thought along these lines before. And remember all those times she claimed to have stayed with Zanny after a late night at work. And no one just picks up and drops off their two year old outside a residence and never goes in.

ITA. On another thread I read where KC's statement to LE was that she had been to ZG's so many times that she didn't pay attention to how she got there and therefore couldn't take them or tell them how to get there.....

scratchthatitch
06-09-2009, 03:53 PM
Ahhh, yes Grasshoppers... but be wary not to be blinded by the glaringly bright light of the Obvious... for all of those stories were part of "The Script"! KC was merely following script, the script I tell you! and none of the apartments pointed out had anything to do with "Zanny" because Caylee was actually taken from KC's loving arms at BP!!! Come on sleuths- KEEP UP! Does Cindy need to come down and enlighten us on Omnipotence: Knowing Everything While Still Tolerating the Pathetic Idiots That Keep Trying to Find Justice For Your Granddaughter.??

KC HAS NOT and CANNOT reveal "Zanny's" true information (except she is most definately a "10"), because she's protecting Caylee!.... oops, too late on that one.... oh, yeah.... She's PROTECTING George and Cindy! KC the CAPED CRUSADER! SELFLESS DEFENDER OF THE WEAK AND FEEBLE MINDED!!

Never a moments consideration for her own well-being and nary a thought toward her own personal gain, KC the CCSDOTWAFM stands for TRUTH! and will use her mighty powers (from prison, of course) to thwart the evil Master Mind, ZANNY THE NANNY and her plot to..uhhhh.... can someone please remind me what MMZTN wanted again?? I always forget that part....

I think I popped a hole in my cheek. Should have known not to shove my tongue in there for so long...

one_hooah_wife
06-10-2009, 01:32 PM
Last night I was going to post some photos to my mom's photobucket account ... when she gave me the password to it she said it's "planer" spelled backwards. That made me think of KC's Timer55 MySpace password. What if it wasn't timer55 at all but "remit 55" ... ZG22 had to pay 50.00 to the collections court PLUS a 5.00 administrative fee ... ZG22 had to remit 55 dollars to OC every month!! What better way to remind herself of an obligation than to make it her password, then having to type it several times every day? If Casey was ZG22 ... the last thing that she would have wanted to do is fall behind on those payments and have a bench warrant issued. It took some pretty decent organization skills for her to have lived in a house of cards for so long!!

MAMABEAR
06-10-2009, 01:47 PM
Hey, one_hooah_wife----I'd think that would be a very good possibility. Thanks.

Juliana
06-10-2009, 01:58 PM
Last night I was going to post some photos to my mom's photobucket account ... when she gave me the password to it she said it's "planer" spelled backwards. That made me think of KC's Timer55 MySpace password. What if it wasn't timer55 at all but "remit 55" ... ZG22 had to pay 50.00 to the collections court PLUS a 5.00 administrative fee ... ZG22 had to remit 55 dollars to OC every month!! What better way to remind herself of an obligation than to make it her password, then having to type it several times every day? If Casey was ZG22 ... the last thing that she would have wanted to do is fall behind on those payments and have a bench warrant issued. It took some pretty decent organization skills for her to have lived in a house of cards for so long!!

Wow. I'd pass that along to the Prosecution or LE.

QB.
06-10-2009, 02:07 PM
One Hooah Wife - I think you may have something here - very possible! When did she start using that password - any way to know or find out? And does it connect with same time when the ticket/fine was issued?

one_hooah_wife
06-10-2009, 03:26 PM
One Hooah Wife - I think you may have something here - very possible! When did she start using that password - any way to know or find out? And does it connect with same time when the ticket/fine was issued?

I'm not sure how we could go about finding the date that she changed her password on her MySpace.

QB.
06-10-2009, 03:30 PM
I'm not sure how we could go about finding the date that she changed her password on her MySpace.


I'm not sure how to do that either but I wonder if LE could probably find that out. Have you thought about emailing this info to LE?

MAMABEAR
06-11-2009, 01:40 PM
I was listening to LA's interview with LE:
http://www.wftv.com/video/17557603/index.html
At marker 23:10 LA is telling what he picked up at Toni's apt (KC's stuff). He then says that the bag was to organized to have been KC to pack it. He says he and his sister are NOT organized type of peep.

OK---I'm not an organized peep either---but if I go on a trip--plane---I do pack organized so I can get everythang into the bags. Now---if KC had her bags packed--ready for a trip and she did pack the bags-----was she gittin ready to "leave"? Member she did want "just one more day". Don't guess there is any way to prove my way of thinking but sure fits in with this ZG22 ID.

Then I think about GA telling about KC's ID was in the purse, inside the car. The cop even ask GA if KC was driving around without her ID (D/L) and GA said yes--ID was in car.

Just thoughts runnin wild thru my ole head.

Valhall
06-11-2009, 08:42 PM
Then I think about GA telling about KC's ID was in the purse, inside the car. The cop even ask GA if KC was driving around without her ID (D/L) and GA said yes--ID was in car.

Just thoughts runnin wild thru my ole head.

Wait a minute. Can you please link to the specific interview with GA where he says the ID was in the car? Because Lee specifically states KC's ID was in the purse he recovered from TL's...which would mean it couldn't be in the car.

O_O

Ripley007
06-11-2009, 09:56 PM
Wait a minute. Can you please link to the specific interview with GA where he says the ID was in the car? Because Lee specifically states KC's ID was in the purse he recovered from TL's...which would mean it couldn't be in the car.

O_O

It's on the front page of threads somewhere. Posted just recently....BRB

MAMABEAR
06-11-2009, 10:49 PM
Thanks Ripley007. Would probably take me a year to find it.:blowkiss:

skygirl
06-11-2009, 10:56 PM
Wait a minute. Can you please link to the specific interview with GA where he says the ID was in the car? Because Lee specifically states KC's ID was in the purse he recovered from TL's...which would mean it couldn't be in the car.

O_O

In one of the interviews, I think FBI w. George. This came up and one of the guys interviewing, said somthing like '" so, this means she was was without ID for a couple of weeks. But apparently not b/c of the one found in her purse at Tony's (AL). But she also had another ID behind her regular drivers license that a female LE took. So, things that make ya go hummm? Also remember, she didn't have an ID when she and AL went apartment shopping. The agent (a friend of hers) made her wait, and he showed AL the apartment while KC waited in the car.
link to interviews with fbi george
http://www.wftv.com/news/18419522/detail.html

youll have to scroll down pretty far to get to it. But it's there on the left.

MAMABEAR
06-11-2009, 10:59 PM
Thanks skygirl.

ClockWatcher
06-11-2009, 11:24 PM
It's on the front page of threads somewhere. Posted just recently....BRB

The thread it was in...Cindy's Inconsistencies...was tidied up a bit and only found this as a quote of the original post...(I think)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Focusing soley on Cindy Anthony's Inconsistencies

Ripley007
06-11-2009, 11:55 PM
The thread it was in...Cindy's Inconsistencies...was tidied up a bit and only found this as a quote of the original post...(I think)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Focusing soley on Cindy Anthony's Inconsistencies (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3853459&postcount=40)

:blowkiss::toast:

OneLostGrl
06-12-2009, 12:17 AM
In one of the interviews, I think FBI w. George. This came up and one of the guys interviewing, said somthing like '" so, this means she was was without ID for a couple of weeks. But apparently not b/c of the one found in her purse at Tony's (AL). But she also had another ID behind her regular drivers license that a female LE took. So, things that make ya go hummm? Also remember, she didn't have an ID when she and AL went apartment shopping. The agent (a friend of hers) made her wait, and he showed AL the apartment while KC waited in the car.
link to interviews with fbi george
http://www.wftv.com/news/18419522/detail.html

youll have to scroll down pretty far to get to it. But it's there on the left.

We do not know that she had another ID behind her DL. Lee said that's what it looked like. LE has not even mentioned it.

Valhall
06-12-2009, 07:02 AM
We do not know that she had another ID behind her DL. Lee said that's what it looked like. LE has not even mentioned it.

This is very true. The whole thing with whatever was behind KC's driver's license in her wallet is yet to be formally discussed by LE in any discovery. The only thing we have is LA's interview and the OCSO interviewer (was it Melich??? can't remember) responding as if he knew nothing about the second card that LA states the female officer took. Which is interesting by itself.

At the same time, we've also not had any discovery where LE formally discusses KC having two ID's. But with GA's interview and LE's interview, there APPEARS TO BE at least two ID's...with a possible third.

I just keep hoping something will be released that puts this all in its proper place, one way or the other. That way we'll know if we're just chasing rabbits on the whole second, third ID issue!

pcrum12
06-14-2009, 07:52 AM
This is very true. The whole thing with whatever was behind KC's driver's license in her wallet is yet to be formally discussed by LE in any discovery. The only thing we have is LA's interview and the OCSO interviewer (was it Melich??? can't remember) responding as if he knew nothing about the second card that LA states the female officer took. Which is interesting by itself.

At the same time, we've also not had any discovery where LE formally discusses KC having two ID's. But with GA's interview and LE's interview, there APPEARS TO BE at least two ID's...with a possible third.

I just keep hoping something will be released that puts this all in its proper place, one way or the other. That way we'll know if we're just chasing rabbits on the whole second, third ID issue!

This is all very confusing. IF her purse along with her DL were in the car per GA then how is it that the purse that LA brought back to the house that he and CA went through also contained her DL?????? along with maybe another ID????

OneLostGrl
06-14-2009, 08:48 AM
This is very true. The whole thing with whatever was behind KC's driver's license in her wallet is yet to be formally discussed by LE in any discovery. The only thing we have is LA's interview and the OCSO interviewer (was it Melich??? can't remember) responding as if he knew nothing about the second card that LA states the female officer took. Which is interesting by itself.

At the same time, we've also not had any discovery where LE formally discusses KC having two ID's. But with GA's interview and LE's interview, there APPEARS TO BE at least two ID's...with a possible third.

I just keep hoping something will be released that puts this all in its proper place, one way or the other. That way we'll know if we're just chasing rabbits on the whole second, third ID issue!

I suspect they checked into it and have decided the fake ID is not all that important (if there was even a fake ID at all- Lee is a liar, I certainly do not trust him or anything he says. But that's just me). Fake ID vs dead baby, they are gonna focus on dead baby.

OneLostGrl
06-14-2009, 08:51 AM
This is all very confusing. IF her purse along with her DL were in the car per GA then how is it that the purse that LA brought back to the house that he and CA went through also contained her DL?????? along with maybe another ID????

We have ONLY Lee's word (which imo is crap) on that being the case. I have not heard anyone else say that her D/L was in the "purse" that Lee got from TonE's.

TallyHo
06-14-2009, 08:57 AM
This is very true. The whole thing with whatever was behind KC's driver's license in her wallet is yet to be formally discussed by LE in any discovery. The only thing we have is LA's interview and the OCSO interviewer (was it Melich??? can't remember) responding as if he knew nothing about the second card that LA states the female officer took. Which is interesting by itself.

At the same time, we've also not had any discovery where LE formally discusses KC having two ID's. But with GA's interview and LE's interview, there APPEARS TO BE at least two ID's...with a possible third.

I just keep hoping something will be released that puts this all in its proper place, one way or the other. That way we'll know if we're just chasing rabbits on the whole second, third ID issue!

This is interesting. I always thought there was some reason (fake ID, stolen identity, etc) that she was reluctant to show her ID around her friends on the liquor buying trip for the 4th of July and TonE when they went apartment hunting. I would not have been surprised to find out that she left a "Zenaida Gonzalez" ID in the car when she left it at Amscot. Cindy did question her about why "she (not "you") didn't come back for the car" - which makes me wonder if she told Cindy that Zanny had taken the car. But of course if she had done that, Cindy would be screaming to high heaven that of course there is a Zanny because I've got her driver's license!!

Shear22
06-14-2009, 09:19 AM
This is interesting. I always thought there was some reason (fake ID, stolen identity, etc) that she was reluctant to show her ID around her friends on the liquor buying trip for the 4th of July and TonE when they went apartment hunting. I would not have been surprised to find out that she left a "Zenaida Gonzalez" ID in the car when she left it at Amscot. Cindy did question her about why "she (not "you") didn't come back for the car" - which makes me wonder if she told Cindy that Zanny had taken the car. But of course if she had done that, Cindy would be screaming to high heaven that of course there is a Zanny because I've got her driver's license!!

CA wouldn't be screaming very loud if the ZFG license had KC's picture on it.

TallyHo
06-14-2009, 09:33 AM
CA wouldn't be screaming very loud if the ZFG license had KC's picture on it.

Too true!! :eek:

HappyChic727
06-14-2009, 09:51 AM
I may have chimed in here a long time ago but I just wanted to jump in and say that with my inkblot asking who Zanny was, I got something that looked like a car with 4 wheels and also had little elephants in it, hence . . . the trunk. I think crashing at Zanny's meant that KC was partying and Caylee was crashed out (from chloroform) in the trunk of the car. I could be wrong.

Here's my inkblot:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a16/HappyChic727/Inkblots/2008HarvestFestivalInkblotsandJo-2.jpg

BondJamesBond
06-14-2009, 11:18 AM
I may be grafting memories fragments here...

Didn't someone (Casey?) make a comment about Zenaida having a Universal (Studios) ID like hers (Casey's?)...that she'd (Casey had) seen it?

Anyone ready to go diving through the released docs for that one? Could be a non-starter...my memory is foggy on that one, but, thought someone might be interested in looking it up...or correct my memory.

IIRC, it appears when Casey explained that ZFG was a seasonal employee.

TIA.

cecybeans
06-14-2009, 02:00 PM
BJB -

In the original transcript, KC does not indicate she has seen her Universal ID, but that may not be the only place this is mentioned (and I'm wracking my brain now to think if either CA or LA or someone corroborated her story by confirming KC had actually seen the ID).

the transcript below is from KC's interview with YM and JA at the conference room at Universal. I think this is from page 81.

Q: Where did Zenaida. Does she have another job besides watching children?

A: She has a seasonal ID for Universal. However, the only job that I know that she's had for the last few years she's been a nanny.

Q: So, seasonal employee at Universal?

A: Uh-huh (Affirmative).

Q: When was the last time she worked at Universal do you know?

A: I have no idea.

Later on, in the same interview (p. 104) at Universal with J Allen and Y Mellich, Mellich asks her:

Q: Zani's never worked here. How do you explain that?

A: She has an I.D. She has an I.D. with her name on it.

Q: Just like you have...

A: I've seen it.

Q: ...just like you have an I.D.?

A: I do have an I.D. Somewhere in my house. Both my parents have seen it. Both my parents know..

Q. Just like you have an office.

A. ...that I worked here. That I used to have an office.

Q: Now just like you have an office?

A: No, I don't have an office now.

Q: Okay.

Please excuse - any punctuation or typos are mine; I couldn't get this version of PDF to copy or screen shot for some reason.

MADJGNLAW
06-14-2009, 02:06 PM
BJB -

In the original transcript, KC does not indicate she has seen her Universal ID, but that may not be the only place this is mentioned (and I'm wracking my brain now to think if either CA or LA or someone corroborated her story by confirming KC had actually seen the ID).

the transcript below is from KC's interview with YM and JA at the conference room at Universal. I think this is from page 81.

Q: Where did Zenaida. Does she have another job besides watching children?

A: She has a seasonal ID for Universal. However, the only job that I know that she's had for the last few years she's been a nanny.

Q: So, seasonal employee at Universal?

A: Uh-huh (Affirmative).

Q: When was the last time she worked at Universal do you know?

A: I have no idea.

Later on, in the same interview (p. 104) at Universal with J Allen and Y Mellich, Mellich asks her:

Q: Zani's never worked here. How do you explain that?

A: She has an I.D. She has an I.D. with her name on it.

Q: Just like you have...

A: I've seen it.

Q: ...just like you have an I.D.?

A: I do have an I.D. Somewhere in my house. Both my parents have seen it. Both my parents know..

Q. Just like you have an office.

A. ...that I worked here. That I used to have an office.

Q: Now just like you have an office?

A: No, I don't have an office now.

Q: Okay.

Please excuse - any punctuation or typos are mine; I couldn't get this version of PDF to copy or screen shot for some reason.

Thanks for bringing this interview back up. I have thought since day one that Casey in her sick head felt like she was the nanny to Caylee.

MAMABEAR
06-14-2009, 02:06 PM
Here KC says ZG has a Seasonal ID at Universal.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/orl-casey-anthony-interview-1,0,2340250.mp3file

Is all I can find so far. There is no marker to find it. LOL

MAMABEAR
06-14-2009, 02:08 PM
Wow Beans-------You go gurl.:blowkiss:
You was dis one smart cookie.

kageykaren
06-14-2009, 02:09 PM
Something that keeps creeping up in my brain is the entire A family appear to not want Caylee in the system, to collect all kinds of benefits many of us recieved when we had are children. It seems the A's were trying to stay off the radar since conception when it applied to Caylee. To date GA and CA have learned how to network into owning a foundation, why didn't they use the same type of gusto in acquiring the benefits awarded to a child when a parent dies. CA stated she began the paper work at her attorneys, which we know she blantanly did not follow through with this according to FBI interview. Now we know how GA is meticulous with his cars, yard and seems to pride himself with being consistent and thorough. CA has notebooks prepaired for LE interviews at a time when most would have a difficult time writing and don't forget about her drug dealer spreadsheet. The A's have tried to divert attention towards an entity called, The Nanny, Zani, Zeneda, Zenida ect..... to include any of KC friends she may have hung out with. [B]No Nanny[/B is my vote because of all the energy going into establishing one. Because of kC seasoned attitude while forging checks I feel there is an ID out there. As thorough parents the A's should have voiced there concern over kC not having proper ID and the negative outcomes that may occur while driving all over Florida if in accident, especially if Caylee was in the car. Following pings and such again no nanny. Now we are still left with the why ZG's name was chosen when Kc referred to a specific last name. I feel we know kC can take the most mundane and elaborate on it, like a made for TV add. Criminal minds can be very innovative as we've seen. Sociopaths will sometimes confess to a lessor crime while being accused of a horrendous crime. When KC made the comment, (I probably will misquote), "I'm guilty of dropping my daughter off and trusting ect.... and was stupid for thinking I could find her myself" That was my first ringy, dingy, of ,"Whoa, she's telling a mistruth!"

cecybeans
06-14-2009, 02:31 PM
kagey

You are so right - and it strikes me that we really do not know the extent of where or how anything about Caylee is on or off the books (or GA or CA or KC for that matter). What the Anthonys may or may not have said or admitted to is just absolutely useless, they all lie like rugs when it comes to documentation. I'm sure LE (and the IRS) could provide some very enlightening info when it comes to how much this family lived on and off the grid. There has been lots of justifiable suspicion about how they've answered or evaded certain questions - and they give the perception they are very practiced with that type of response. From CA claiming that she had filed with an attorney Caylee's father's denial of rights (which never happened), to GA's "admission" of losing money in a Nigerian email scam, to doubts about the validity of his alleged workman's comp injuries and claims, these folks tend to strike me as people who have, if not been actively playing the system, sure know how to skirt the edges of legality.

Yet another reason (in the many) we have to question the "don't worry, I haven't said anything" incident.

MADJGNLAW
06-14-2009, 02:49 PM
Something that keeps creeping up in my brain is the entire A family appear to not want Caylee in the system, to collect all kinds of benefits many of us recieved when we had are children. It seems the A's were trying to stay off the radar since conception when it applied to Caylee. To date GA and CA have learned how to network into owning a foundation, why didn't they use the same type of gusto in acquiring the benefits awarded to a child when a parent dies. CA stated she began the paper work at her attorneys, which we know she blantanly did not follow through with this according to FBI interview. Now we know how GA is meticulous with his cars, yard and seems to pride himself with being consistent and thorough. CA has notebooks prepaired for LE interviews at a time when most would have a difficult time writing and don't forget about her drug dealer spreadsheet. The A's have tried to divert attention towards an entity called, The Nanny, Zani, Zeneda, Zenida ect..... to include any of KC friends she may have hung out with. [B]No Nanny[/B is my vote because of all the energy going into establishing one. Because of kC seasoned attitude while forging checks I feel there is an ID out there. As thorough parents the A's should have voiced there concern over kC not having proper ID and the negative outcomes that may occur while driving all over Florida if in accident, especially if Caylee was in the car. Following pings and such again no nanny. Now we are still left with the why ZG's name was chosen when Kc referred to a specific last name. I feel we know kC can take the most mundane and elaborate on it, like a made for TV add. Criminal minds can be very innovative as we've seen. Sociopaths will sometimes confess to a lessor crime while being accused of a horrendous crime. When KC made the comment, (I probably will misquote), "I'm guilty of dropping my daughter off and trusting ect.... and was stupid for thinking I could find her myself" That was my first ringy, dingy, of ,"Whoa, she's telling a mistruth!"

I'd like to know what the paperwork said, that was said to be started about CA claiming that she had filed with an attorney about Caylee's father's denial of rights. If that was so, then the paper work would have Caylee's father's name on it and Cindy is caught in a lie again because she would have to know who the father is if she was to have this paper work started "IMO".

kageykaren
06-14-2009, 03:18 PM
Cecebeans, "don'y worry, I haven't said anything," was directed to both parents with a brushed off type of demeanor. Something is definatly "A Family Affair" taht they are trying to keep, "All in the family". The way all the A's downplayed a father role being involved in Caylee's life was way to matter of fact everytime they were asked. Notice GA's silence in discussing KC pregnancy and birth of a grandaughter. GA loved those beautiful girls so much he embezzeled from his family? Off topic with my gA reference but I stated that to show things were upside down in the home. Do any of you feel like "Alice "trying to navigate through " I Wonder? Land" I can't say to fact but I feel many of the imaginary friends co-workers seem to have there own 3-6 drgrees to KC and that may ring true for this ZG. I'v oftened wondered if ZG that KC referenced came about from a 3 degrees scenario. KC had a friend who had a friend who had a friend that babysat, hence all the names KC blurted out about how she found her to watch Caylee. Since we know KC didn't leave the area could these made up names of ZG's sister, mom, acutually really be someone of a whole other name that may have looked after Caylee while KC was braking the law, doing whatever, therefore not comming forward so as not to be implicated in this crime or a secondary crime. I'm getting alittle out there so I better stop. The case to me reeks of Rico crimes, drugs, and ????? The silence comming from KC's friends is unatural for that age group. In the beginning everyone was eager to do their own timeline, some appeared to help minimally in the investigation and them everyone became silent. Off for a swim, to clear my brain for it just keeps rehashing the same old, same sluething. More docs please?

Meemom
06-14-2009, 03:31 PM
I'd like to know what the paperwork said, that was said to be started about CA claiming that she had filed with an attorney about Caylee's father's denial of rights. If that was so, then the paper work would have Caylee's father's name on it and Cindy is caught in a lie again because she would have to know who the father is if she was to have this paper work started "IMO".

IIRC, way back in the earlier docs. LE interviewed the lawyer, who stated he had no such file for the A's. Appears to be another of CA's flights of fancy, something she thought to do, but never did in reality.

kageykaren
06-14-2009, 03:54 PM
IIRC, way back in the earlier docs. LE interviewed the lawyer, who stated he had no such file for the A's. Appears to be another of CA's flights of fancy, something she thought to do, but never did in reality.
:yes::shakehead::abnormal:

BondJamesBond
06-14-2009, 04:53 PM
BJB -

In the original transcript, KC does not indicate she has seen her Universal ID, but that may not be the only place this is mentioned (and I'm wracking my brain now to think if either CA or LA or someone corroborated her story by confirming KC had actually seen the ID).

the transcript below is from KC's interview with YM and JA at the conference room at Universal. I think this is from page 81.

Q: Where did Zenaida. Does she have another job besides watching children?

A: She has a seasonal ID for Universal. However, the only job that I know that she's had for the last few years she's been a nanny.

Q: So, seasonal employee at Universal?

A: Uh-huh (Affirmative).

Q: When was the last time she worked at Universal do you know?

A: I have no idea.

Later on, in the same interview (p. 104) at Universal with J Allen and Y Mellich, Mellich asks her:

Q: Zani's never worked here. How do you explain that?

A: She has an I.D. She has an I.D. with her name on it.

Q: Just like you have...

A: I've seen it.

Q: ...just like you have an I.D.?

A: I do have an I.D. Somewhere in my house. Both my parents have seen it. Both my parents know..

*snipped*

That's it, CB. Thanks. :)

doobiedoo52
06-14-2009, 06:18 PM
I had previously read the info concerning the ZG22 ticket on Blink's site awhile and found it quite interesting. My only question is if they have the fingerprint from the citation, and it matches KC's, why didn't they confront her with it right away? They hit her with all the other lies she told in an attempt to get her to reveal what happened. Why not this one? That confuses me. Not to mention it could have put an end to the ZG speculation early and prevented a frivolous lawsuit.

My only other comment is on the ID of the picture by the Sawgrass employee. I'm sure they were KC's pics at that point in time, but the question he was asked was---are any of these people familiar to you. He was not asked if any of them were the ZG he took thru the apartment that day. KC could very well have been a half way familiar face as she had a friend that worked there and Fusion connections there. I don't think he was saying she was the lady he took thru there. From what I have read, it seems like the police assumed that KC was the ZG who visited the apartment that day. That is why I blame LE for creating this civil suit. The info on that card was actually given by the ZG who admitted to being there & looking. KC did not provide any of that info. She said ZG was 24 and single from the statements I have seen. I really doubt that she knew anything at all about the lawsuit ZG.
And NO I do NOT think she is innocent, but I think she is being blamed for something that she didn't do in the civil lawsuit portion. As always, MOO

BondJamesBond
06-14-2009, 10:28 PM
I had previously read the info concerning the ZG22 ticket on Blink's site awhile and found it quite interesting. My only question is if they have the fingerprint from the citation, and it matches KC's, why didn't they confront her with it right away? They hit her with all the other lies she told in an attempt to get her to reveal what happened. Why not this one? That confuses me. Not to mention it could have put an end to the ZG speculation early and prevented a frivolous lawsuit.

My only other comment is on the ID of the picture by the Sawgrass employee. I'm sure they were KC's pics at that point in time, but the question he was asked was---are any of these people familiar to you. He was not asked if any of them were the ZG he took thru the apartment that day. KC could very well have been a half way familiar face as she had a friend that worked there and Fusion connections there. I don't think he was saying she was the lady he took thru there. From what I have read, it seems like the police assumed that KC was the ZG who visited the apartment that day. That is why I blame LE for creating this civil suit. The info on that card was actually given by the ZG who admitted to being there & looking. KC did not provide any of that info. She said ZG was 24 and single from the statements I have seen. I really doubt that she knew anything at all about the lawsuit ZG.
And NO I do NOT think she is innocent, but I think she is being blamed for something that she didn't do in the civil lawsuit portion. As always, MOO

FWIW, a couple of thoughts here...

1) Timing. On released docs page 781 in the interview w/ Jamie R. (shotgirl) Jamie gives the account of Casey not being able to hang w/ her is attributed to Casey having to go deal w/ a speeding ticket. Jamie recalls it was probably mid-June. Yuri questions the timing a couple of times. This interview was done on August 19th. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4823998/Casey-Anthony-Jamie-Realander-interview

Cell records indicate Jamie & Casey didn't develop a relationship until ~7/2. And the cell records reflect the exchange that would fit what Jamie explains in her interview of this ticket-day on 7/15. So, Jamie's mid-month was almost certainly mid-July...not mid-June as she stated in her interview.

That Yuri focused in on the timing Jamie gave suggests to me that LE had the ZG22 thing in their pocket by 8/19. I dunno how much sooner, but, by 8/19. So, the timing of when LE had made the ZG22 connection, IMHO, played some role in their thinking about how best to use the information. IOW...even if it had been almost immediate (say, if the item recovered from Casey's wallet was a ZG ID) LE may have wanted to use this as a future litmus test to determine how reliable information from other witnesses might be. IF it turned out to be a bogus lead and LE ran with it...then they would pay a huge price for trying to "frame" Casey...handing the defense something to leverage.

2) Purpose. IMHO, the civil suit has served SA/LE well. IOW...they've been the beneficiary of getting testimony from George, Cindy, Lee and Annie (others) on subjects relating to Casey that would otherwise be unavailable to them. So, while I understand why this might seem to be a "frivolous" suit to many, IMHO, it is serving a very valuable purpose...justice for Caylee.

Just Jayla
06-14-2009, 10:41 PM
FWIW, a couple of thoughts here...

1) Timing. On released docs page 781 in the interview w/ Jamie R. (shotgirl) Jamie gives the account of Casey not being able to hang w/ her is attributed to Casey having to go deal w/ a speeding ticket. Jamie recalls it was probably mid-June. Yuri questions the timing a couple of times. This interview was done on August 19th. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4823998/Casey-Anthony-Jamie-Realander-interview

Cell records indicate Jamie & Casey didn't develop a relationship until ~7/2. And the cell records reflect the exchange that would fit what Jamie explains in her interview of this ticket-day on 7/15. So, Jamie's mid-month was almost certainly mid-July...not mid-June as she stated in her interview.

That Yuri focused in on the timing Jamie gave suggests to me that LE had the ZG22 thing in their pocket by 8/19. I dunno how much sooner, but, by 8/19. So, the timing of when LE had made the ZG22 connection, IMHO, played some role in their thinking about how best to use the information. IOW...even if it had been almost immediate (say, if the item recovered from Casey's wallet was a ZG ID) LE may have wanted to use this as a future litmus test to determine how reliable information from other witnesses might be. IF it turned out to be a bogus lead and LE ran with it...then they would pay a huge price for trying to "frame" Casey...handing the defense something to leverage.

2) Purpose. IMHO, the civil suit has served SA/LE well. IOW...they've been the beneficiary of getting testimony from George, Cindy, Lee and Annie (others) on subjects relating to Casey that would otherwise be unavailable to them. So, while I understand why this might seem to be a "frivolous" suit to many, IMHO, it is serving a very valuable purpose...justice for Caylee.

Thank you for summing that up so well, I have always been interested in the ID/ticket angle, it would be sionara for KC should it come out that she possessed a ZG ID as early as May.....That has a "borrowed" address and SSN on it (ie, no real Zenaida).

As to the civil case, if nothing else, a win for ZG will act like a shield for her...I think that any ZG that was questioned/investigated in this case ought to go to the fullest extent to cover their hineys, whether in a civil or a criminal court, or at the very least by keeping alibi receipts/phone records in their nightstand drawers just in case.....you never know when/if/how the defense may bring out the ZG card later.
Kissimmee ZG will not be used as a tool by KC to get away with a murder.

AZlawyer
06-14-2009, 11:00 PM
FWIW, a couple of thoughts here...

1) Timing. On released docs page 781 in the interview w/ Jamie R. (shotgirl) Jamie gives the account of Casey not being able to hang w/ her is attributed to Casey having to go deal w/ a speeding ticket. Jamie recalls it was probably mid-June. Yuri questions the timing a couple of times. This interview was done on August 19th. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4823998/Casey-Anthony-Jamie-Realander-interview

Cell records indicate Jamie & Casey didn't develop a relationship until ~7/2. And the cell records reflect the exchange that would fit what Jamie explains in her interview of this ticket-day on 7/15. So, Jamie's mid-month was almost certainly mid-July...not mid-June as she stated in her interview.

That Yuri focused in on the timing Jamie gave suggests to me that LE had the ZG22 thing in their pocket by 8/19. I dunno how much sooner, but, by 8/19. So, the timing of when LE had made the ZG22 connection, IMHO, played some role in their thinking about how best to use the information. IOW...even if it had been almost immediate (say, if the item recovered from Casey's wallet was a ZG ID) LE may have wanted to use this as a future litmus test to determine how reliable information from other witnesses might be. IF it turned out to be a bogus lead and LE ran with it...then they would pay a huge price for trying to "frame" Casey...handing the defense something to leverage.

2) Purpose. IMHO, the civil suit has served SA/LE well. IOW...they've been the beneficiary of getting testimony from George, Cindy, Lee and Annie (others) on subjects relating to Casey that would otherwise be unavailable to them. So, while I understand why this might seem to be a "frivolous" suit to many, IMHO, it is serving a very valuable purpose...justice for Caylee.

The way I read her interview, Jamie is saying that the speeding ticket incident happened sometime in the middle of the time she knew Casey--i.e., between May 23 and July 15--not sometime in the middle of the month. It's YM who offers the suggestion that the middle of that time period would be the middle of June. I really think if this conversation happened on the very last day Jamie spoke with Casey--the day before Casey was arrested--she would have remembered that.

In the computer forensics report (http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/21%20Computer%20Forensics%20Report.pdf, p. 19) there is an unallocated cluster with Facebook messages between Jamie and Casey--looks like this is not the speeding ticket incident, but Jamie doesn't say in her interview that there were two similar incidents.... :waitasec:

July 8 8:53 pm Jamie: hey girl
July 8 8:54 pm Casey: hey! how are ya?
July 8 8:55 pm Jamie: Im good, did i ever see you thursday?
July 8 8:55 pm Casey: i didn't get to come out. i had to take a friend home, before we even got downtown, and ended up getting sick along with her. i think it was our dinner. don't eat at houlihan's how was it?
July 8 8:56 pm Jamie: Wasted!!! It was a horrible night for me and jenna
July 8 8:57 pm Casey: haha nice!
July 8 8:57 pm Jamie: me mostly
July 8 8:57 pm Casey: why is that?

BondJamesBond
06-15-2009, 01:10 AM
The way I read her interview, Jamie is saying that the speeding ticket incident happened sometime in the middle of the time she knew Casey--i.e., between May 23 and July 15--not sometime in the middle of the month. It's YM who offers the suggestion that the middle of that time period would be the middle of June. I really think if this conversation happened on the very last day Jamie spoke with Casey--the day before Casey was arrested--she would have remembered that.

In the computer forensics report (http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/21%20Computer%20Forensics%20Report.pdf, p. 19) there is an unallocated cluster with Facebook messages between Jamie and Casey--looks like this is not the speeding ticket incident, but Jamie doesn't say in her interview that there were two similar incidents.... :waitasec:

July 8 8:53 pm Jamie: hey girl
July 8 8:54 pm Casey: hey! how are ya?
July 8 8:55 pm Jamie: Im good, did i ever see you thursday?
July 8 8:55 pm Casey: i didn't get to come out. i had to take a friend home, before we even got downtown, and ended up getting sick along with her. i think it was our dinner. don't eat at houlihan's how was it?
July 8 8:56 pm Jamie: Wasted!!! It was a horrible night for me and jenna
July 8 8:57 pm Casey: haha nice!
July 8 8:57 pm Jamie: me mostly
July 8 8:57 pm Casey: why is that?

IMHO...since the interview didn't happen until August 19th...just over a month after the arrest, I'm not sure how keen Jamie's recollection of the timing was IYKWIM. Just offering it up FWIW.

Also, FWIW, in the 7/8 exchange they are referencing the prior Thursday night, 7/3, which was the night Casey, Amy, et.al. went downtown and Casey got the helloutta Dodge when Lee came looking for her. :rolleyes: Not quite the story she told Jamie now, was it? ;)