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TallyHo
06-15-2009, 10:25 AM
BJB -

In the original transcript, KC does not indicate she has seen her Universal ID, but that may not be the only place this is mentioned (and I'm wracking my brain now to think if either CA or LA or someone corroborated her story by confirming KC had actually seen the ID).

the transcript below is from KC's interview with YM and JA at the conference room at Universal. I think this is from page 81.

Q: Where did Zenaida. Does she have another job besides watching children?

A: She has a seasonal ID for Universal. However, the only job that I know that she's had for the last few years she's been a nanny.

Q: So, seasonal employee at Universal?

A: Uh-huh (Affirmative).

Q: When was the last time she worked at Universal do you know?

A: I have no idea.

Later on, in the same interview (p. 104) at Universal with J Allen and Y Mellich, Mellich asks her:

Q: Zani's never worked here. How do you explain that?

A: She has an I.D. She has an I.D. with her name on it.

Q: Just like you have...

A: I've seen it.

Q: ...just like you have an I.D.?

A: I do have an I.D. Somewhere in my house. Both my parents have seen it. Both my parents know..

Q. Just like you have an office.

A. ...that I worked here. That I used to have an office.

Q: Now just like you have an office?

A: No, I don't have an office now.

Q: Okay.

Please excuse - any punctuation or typos are mine; I couldn't get this version of PDF to copy or screen shot for some reason.

WHO'S ON FIRST??? :bang: Just reading these verbal gymnastics makes my head hurt, but Yuri absolutely nailed it - "just like YOU have an ID" etc. Casey could have been describing herself when she is giving them the description of Zanny here. Has an ID for universal but does nothing but watch kid(s) for the last few years. Some of the other details about Zanny are uncannily similar to herself as well. Somehow I suspect that's how Zanny became a "10". Most likely this is how Casey sees herself.

cecybeans
06-15-2009, 10:51 AM
I had previously read the info concerning the ZG22 ticket on Blink's site awhile and found it quite interesting. My only question is if they have the fingerprint from the citation, and it matches KC's, why didn't they confront her with it right away? They hit her with all the other lies she told in an attempt to get her to reveal what happened. Why not this one? That confuses me. Not to mention it could have put an end to the ZG speculation early and prevented a frivolous lawsuit.

My only other comment is on the ID of the picture by the Sawgrass employee. I'm sure they were KC's pics at that point in time, but the question he was asked was---are any of these people familiar to you. He was not asked if any of them were the ZG he took thru the apartment that day. KC could very well have been a half way familiar face as she had a friend that worked there and Fusion connections there. I don't think he was saying she was the lady he took thru there. From what I have read, it seems like the police assumed that KC was the ZG who visited the apartment that day. That is why I blame LE for creating this civil suit. The info on that card was actually given by the ZG who admitted to being there & looking. KC did not provide any of that info. She said ZG was 24 and single from the statements I have seen. I really doubt that she knew anything at all about the lawsuit ZG.
And NO I do NOT think she is innocent, but I think she is being blamed for something that she didn't do in the civil lawsuit portion. As always, MOO

KC stopped talking to LE after wasting their time half the first night driving by fake Zanny residences and culminating in her bogus tour of her Universal office. That's when they realized she was completely wasting their time sending them on a wild goose chase for her own entertainment and it was of no further value to speak with her directly until she chose to start telling the truth. After that, it was her own choice (and most certainly her attorney's) to refuse to talk with them (I don't count the little foray on the day of her indictment with the FBI as being indicative of cooperation either). Whether or not any fake ZG22 ID, or fingerprinted citation had been able to be thoroughly researched at that juncture is unlikely - it seems to have unfolded as the investigation proceded. The first few days were about trying to find a missing child amongst the convoluted garbage that her mother and her grandparents were trying to obfuscate the truth with to protect themselves and cast suspicion on any convenient target.

If there had never been a ZG at Sawgrass Apts, driving a Ford Focus with NY plates on or near the time KC said she dropped off Caylee, you might consider this a frivolous lawsuit. But let's remember - she did and this is the only woman who fit a description that came anything close to something true or verifiable that KC told LE that day. Not to mention this woman could still technically be considered a murder suspect seeing as how KC has countersued and refuses to answer questions. I was in town at the time and saw how the local news was treating her and also how mixed public opinion was as to whether she was involved. If someone you never met gave LE an accurate enough description of your name and your vehicle and specifically placed you at what was considered to be a crime scene, I'm sure you would not think a civil suit was frivolous, regardless of whether or not you lost income or suffered invasion of privacy or received death threats. Particularly if they and their attorney refused to publicly clear you after you filed a civil suit and if, in the meantime, their family was eager enough to continue the fabrication to spread it all over the media.

As far as LE showing pics of KC to Sawgrass employees - I applaud them. They are not required to use completely transparent or simplistic investigation methods to get at the facts. If I had suspected KC may have either been involved, or known someone involved at Sawgrass I would have wanted to know if she was a familiar face as well or if she was connected to others - in other words to simply see exactly how familiar she was to anyone living there who may have also been involved.

KC most certainly is responsible for the civil suit. She identified her "nanny" as a very real person (her "10" description came much later) with a very real and identifiable vehicle who was at a very specific place at or around the time of a crime she accused this person of committing. It doesn't get much more specific than that without a NannyCam.

~ Amy ~
06-15-2009, 12:46 PM
According to one of GA's interviews ...KC referred to herself as a "nanny" in a resume he says he found. I'd like to know who , what and where that resume was planned for. Was it ever looked into what kind of job she was seeking? Was she trying to find a real "nanny" position , or was she possibly making a paper trail , so the chips might fall into someone elses lap?

Seebra
06-15-2009, 01:02 PM
OK, Here's one for the KC is ZFG - On June 11, 2008, it states according to the docket that the defendant, one ZFG appeared before a judge.

Does this match with anything we have for KC on June 11, 2008?

I am trying to find records of everything for KC on 6/11/08 - but if she pings in the courthouse area - isn't this a BINGO?

http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=ff378c70-8e38-4d4b-93a0-92d7082eb25b&CaseID=5898474

Seebra
06-15-2009, 01:16 PM
When comparing the cell pings for June 11 and the fact that defendant ZFG appeared in court also on this day, it seems absolutely probable that KC did appear as ZFG on June 11. All cell pings were to the east for much of the day - except when looking at cell ping #15 and #16 - they are right within the area of the traffic courthouse. Interesting... now the question is, did the ZFG defendant appear in late afternoon at the court - say between 5-6PM?

OneLostGrl
06-15-2009, 01:17 PM
OK, Here's one for the KC is ZFG - On June 11, 2008, it states according to the docket that the defendant, one ZFG appeared before a judge.

Does this match with anything we have for KC on June 11, 2008?

I am trying to find records of everything for KC on 6/11/08 - but if she pings in the courthouse area - isn't this a BINGO?

http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=ff378c70-8e38-4d4b-93a0-92d7082eb25b&CaseID=5898474

IIRC JWG and BJB looked into all of this when Blink's info came out. You may want to check with one of them, they may be able to point you toward what you are looking for.

cecybeans
06-15-2009, 01:49 PM
IIRC JWG and BJB looked into all of this when Blink's info came out. You may want to check with one of them, they may be able to point you toward what you are looking for.

And IIRC, a lot of it is available on earlier posts on this thread or the other Zanny thread (plus lots of great additional info added by Valhall).

Valhall
06-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Just remember when looking at the ping data that "ZG22" appeared in the OCOEE traffic court, not the Orlando downtown court.

475 W. Story Road
Ocoee, FL 34761


Some comments were made by, I believe, JWG and BJB on this issue earlier in the thread and I think, if I recall correctly, they didn't think she could have been in that area???

Guys, am I recalling correctly?

Valhall
06-15-2009, 07:15 PM
Okay, yes, she could have made the traffic docket at the Ocoee branch of the Orange county court system on the 11th.

Here is the ping map for June 11th:

Ping Map June 11th (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&ll=28.529036,-81.323547&spn=0.269058,0.433273&t=h&z=11&msid=103915041605280294744.00045d178e93fcbce2c63)

Note that the first cell ping KC has after 4:39 am is at 9:40 am. The general location where her cell phone pings is approximately a 20 minute drive from the Ocoee court house.

From here we find that check-in time for arraignment on a criminal traffic offense (which ZG22's was) is at 7:30 am on Wednesdays. (The 11th was a Wednesday.)

http://orangeclerk.onetgov.net/traffic/criminal.shtml

Note that it says if you aren't there at 7:30 am, you won't be allowed to attend court. So ZG22 was there at 7:30 am. Now, no telling how long it took to be heard, but 7:30 to 9:40 is over 2 hours, so there is a possibility KC could have been at traffic court in Ocoee on the morning of June 11th.

Valhall
06-15-2009, 09:33 PM
I'd like to point something else out here that may or may not end up being relevant to the discussion (we can all tend to interpret things with bias, and I fully realize that). I've been working on a graphical timeline of KC's activities from June 15th through July 15th just to wrap my mind around her habits. I have found a very consistent behavior for KC concerning a daily phone habit:

1. Her first phone activity is usually very brief. She appears to turn her phone on and either gets a myspace alert, a text message from some one, or (more usually) checks her voicemail. This is typically around 8 a.m., but can be as late as 11 a.m.

2. She then would typically have a period of no activity on the phone that could extend up to 3 hours after the initial brief activity.

3. I found no instance of KC's first phone activity being at a location other than where she slept...i.e. if she spent the night at the Anthony home, the first activity was at the Anthony home; likewise if she was at TL's, the first activity was at TL's.

4. Irrespective of where KC spent the night, she didn't seem to ever leave that location very much before noon.

With that stated, on the morning of the 11th, she had no initial activity at the location she had spent the night (i.e. the Anthony home). This is out of character. This means she left the Anthony home before ever turning her phone on (i.e. it didn't receive any calls, text messages, alerts and she didn't check her voicemail) before 9:40 a.m. and that was at a different location than the Anthony home. This is out of character.

This also means she was up and out of bed and away from the place she slept before 9:40 a.m (without talking on the phone)....again, out of character.

Now, why would she have her phone off until 9:40 a.m. when she has left the house sometime between 4:39 and 9:40 a.m.? Maybe because she had to go some where she couldn't answer the phone, or didn't want to explain where she was, because leaving as early as she had to (7:00 a.m. or earlier) would have raised suspicion with CA. (She would have gotten a phone call asking "Where are you?")

MAMABEAR
06-15-2009, 10:03 PM
Dam gurl----H3ll, your good. Go git this thread notarized--filed. LMAO I just wished this thread was organized all in one big post---like a summery.

Just Jayla
06-15-2009, 10:42 PM
I'd like to point something else out here that may or may not end up being relevant to the discussion (we can all tend to interpret things with bias, and I fully realize that). I've been working on a graphical timeline of KC's activities from June 15th through July 15th just to wrap my mind around her habits. I have found a very consistent behavior for KC concerning a daily phone habit:

1. Her first phone activity is usually very brief. She appears to turn her phone on and either gets a myspace alert, a text message from some one, or (more usually) checks her voicemail. This is typically around 8 a.m., but can be as late as 11 a.m.

2. She then would typically have a period of no activity on the phone that could extend up to 3 hours after the initial brief activity.

3. I found no instance of KC's first phone activity being at a location other than where she slept...i.e. if she spent the night at the Anthony home, the first activity was at the Anthony home; likewise if she was at TL's, the first activity was at TL's.

4. Irrespective of where KC spent the night, she didn't seem to ever leave that location very much before noon.

With that stated, on the morning of the 11th, she had no initial activity at the location she had spent the night (i.e. the Anthony home). This is out of character. This means she left the Anthony home before ever turning her phone on (i.e. it didn't receive any calls, text messages, alerts and she didn't check her voicemail) before 9:40 a.m. and that was at a different location than the Anthony home. This is out of character.

This also means she was up and out of bed and away from the place she slept before 9:40 a.m (without talking on the phone)....again, out of character.

Now, why would she have her phone off until 9:40 a.m. when she has left the house sometime between 4:39 and 9:40 a.m.? Maybe because she had to go some where she couldn't answer the phone, or didn't want to explain where she was, because leaving as early as she had to (7:00 a.m. or earlier) would have raised suspicion with CA. (She would have gotten a phone call asking "Where are you?")

Awesome.

chefmom
06-15-2009, 11:29 PM
I'd like to point something else out here that may or may not end up being relevant to the discussion (we can all tend to interpret things with bias, and I fully realize that). I've been working on a graphical timeline of KC's activities from June 15th through July 15th just to wrap my mind around her habits. I have found a very consistent behavior for KC concerning a daily phone habit:

1. Her first phone activity is usually very brief. She appears to turn her phone on and either gets a myspace alert, a text message from some one, or (more usually) checks her voicemail. This is typically around 8 a.m., but can be as late as 11 a.m.

2. She then would typically have a period of no activity on the phone that could extend up to 3 hours after the initial brief activity.

3. I found no instance of KC's first phone activity being at a location other than where she slept...i.e. if she spent the night at the Anthony home, the first activity was at the Anthony home; likewise if she was at TL's, the first activity was at TL's.

4. Irrespective of where KC spent the night, she didn't seem to ever leave that location very much before noon.

With that stated, on the morning of the 11th, she had no initial activity at the location she had spent the night (i.e. the Anthony home). This is out of character. This means she left the Anthony home before ever turning her phone on (i.e. it didn't receive any calls, text messages, alerts and she didn't check her voicemail) before 9:40 a.m. and that was at a different location than the Anthony home. This is out of character.

This also means she was up and out of bed and away from the place she slept before 9:40 a.m (without talking on the phone)....again, out of character.

Now, why would she have her phone off until 9:40 a.m. when she has left the house sometime between 4:39 and 9:40 a.m.? Maybe because she had to go some where she couldn't answer the phone, or didn't want to explain where she was, because leaving as early as she had to (7:00 a.m. or earlier) would have raised suspicion with CA. (She would have gotten a phone call asking "Where are you?")

Outstanding, as usual, Valhall! :blowkiss:

It's Not the Nanny
06-16-2009, 07:06 AM
Would traffic court have a security tape? Wouldn't that be something if LE was onto this ages ago and was able to pull up the old tape?

Valhall - Do you think she brought Caylee along with her to traffic court or left her at home saying something like she just had to go in for a couple of hours and maybe George watched her?

sarah7855
06-16-2009, 08:37 AM
I'd like to point something else out here that may or may not end up being relevant to the discussion (we can all tend to interpret things with bias, and I fully realize that). I've been working on a graphical timeline of KC's activities from June 15th through July 15th just to wrap my mind around her habits. I have found a very consistent behavior for KC concerning a daily phone habit:

1. Her first phone activity is usually very brief. She appears to turn her phone on and either gets a myspace alert, a text message from some one, or (more usually) checks her voicemail. This is typically around 8 a.m., but can be as late as 11 a.m.

2. She then would typically have a period of no activity on the phone that could extend up to 3 hours after the initial brief activity.

3. I found no instance of KC's first phone activity being at a location other than where she slept...i.e. if she spent the night at the Anthony home, the first activity was at the Anthony home; likewise if she was at TL's, the first activity was at TL's.

4. Irrespective of where KC spent the night, she didn't seem to ever leave that location very much before noon.

With that stated, on the morning of the 11th, she had no initial activity at the location she had spent the night (i.e. the Anthony home). This is out of character. This means she left the Anthony home before ever turning her phone on (i.e. it didn't receive any calls, text messages, alerts and she didn't check her voicemail) before 9:40 a.m. and that was at a different location than the Anthony home. This is out of character.

This also means she was up and out of bed and away from the place she slept before 9:40 a.m (without talking on the phone)....again, out of character.

Now, why would she have her phone off until 9:40 a.m. when she has left the house sometime between 4:39 and 9:40 a.m.? Maybe because she had to go some where she couldn't answer the phone, or didn't want to explain where she was, because leaving as early as she had to (7:00 a.m. or earlier) would have raised suspicion with CA. (She would have gotten a phone call asking "Where are you?")


Amazing. Thank you!
:clap::clap::clap:

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 09:23 AM
Respectfully snipped to the point:

...This also means she was up and out of bed and away from the place she slept before 9:40 a.m (without talking on the phone)....again, out of character.

I can think of two possibilities. One is that her phone needed a charge, whether in the house or the car. Another reasonable explanation is that she had an appointment first thing in the morning which meant she couldn't be distracted by the phone till she got to where she was headed. I've stated else where that she said in an early interview that S. Silva is Caylee's pediatrician. I couldn't find anyone with that name licenced in the Orlando area and the phone number listed in her cell memory is not a business phone. It seems strange LE wouldn't follow up on this but maybe this is an emergency number and Sandra is the spouse of the actual licensed pediatrician. This cell tower pinged at 9:40 is only 1/3 mile from Miguel Silva pediatrics. Perhaps it would be useful to look at the texts. I remember her talking about Caylee having a cold sometime in the recent past before June 16. It may have been to Amy.

But, if she didn't have an appointment near that tower, yes, she could have made the trip to Ocoee. It takes 31 minutes from the Ocoee court house to that tower pinged at 9:40. But, a doctor appointment is more plausible. And the name Silva must fit in somewhere. I think if this was really a friend, and not a connection to a doctor, LE would have interviewed her to add to the string of lies confirmed.

pcrum12
06-16-2009, 09:34 AM
Amazing. Thank you!
:clap::clap::clap:

IMO - based on everything that has been uncovered here - Casey is definately ZG22

Valhall
06-16-2009, 10:10 AM
But, if she didn't have an appointment near that tower, yes, she could have made the trip to Ocoee. It takes 31 minutes from the Ocoee court house to that tower pinged at 9:40. But, a doctor appointment is more plausible. And the name Silva must fit in somewhere. I think if this was really a friend, and not a connection to a doctor, LE would have interviewed her to add to the string of lies confirmed.

*snippalated*

Very good points, AE. Just want to clarify I'm only talking to the question "could she?" not "did she?", so since I have no clue where she was that morning, it could just as well be a pediatrician, etc. I have not looked at the nature of the phone activity at 9:40 a.m. on the 11th. I don't have that particular phone activity document, so I'll get it. It will be interesting to see what that first activity is.

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 10:16 AM
*snippalated*

Very good points, AE. Just want to clarify I'm only talking to the question "could she?" not "did she?", so since I have no clue where she was that morning, it could just as well be a pediatrician, etc. I have not looked at the nature of the phone activity at 9:40 a.m. on the 11th. I don't have that particular phone activity document, so I'll get it. It will be interesting to see what that first activity is.

Thank you. Her first at 9:40 was a call to TL, 141 sec, then a text exchange, him to her, her to him. I think after that is some facebook activity back and forth. I'll look for the texts detail I was referiing to and date when I get a chance.

Seebra
06-16-2009, 10:45 AM
I'd like to point something else out here that may or may not end up being relevant to the discussion (we can all tend to interpret things with bias, and I fully realize that). I've been working on a graphical timeline of KC's activities from June 15th through July 15th just to wrap my mind around her habits. I have found a very consistent behavior for KC concerning a daily phone habit:

1. Her first phone activity is usually very brief. She appears to turn her phone on and either gets a myspace alert, a text message from some one, or (more usually) checks her voicemail. This is typically around 8 a.m., but can be as late as 11 a.m.

2. She then would typically have a period of no activity on the phone that could extend up to 3 hours after the initial brief activity.

3. I found no instance of KC's first phone activity being at a location other than where she slept...i.e. if she spent the night at the Anthony home, the first activity was at the Anthony home; likewise if she was at TL's, the first activity was at TL's.

4. Irrespective of where KC spent the night, she didn't seem to ever leave that location very much before noon.

With that stated, on the morning of the 11th, she had no initial activity at the location she had spent the night (i.e. the Anthony home). This is out of character. This means she left the Anthony home before ever turning her phone on (i.e. it didn't receive any calls, text messages, alerts and she didn't check her voicemail) before 9:40 a.m. and that was at a different location than the Anthony home. This is out of character.

This also means she was up and out of bed and away from the place she slept before 9:40 a.m (without talking on the phone)....again, out of character.

Now, why would she have her phone off until 9:40 a.m. when she has left the house sometime between 4:39 and 9:40 a.m.? Maybe because she had to go some where she couldn't answer the phone, or didn't want to explain where she was, because leaving as early as she had to (7:00 a.m. or earlier) would have raised suspicion with CA. (She would have gotten a phone call asking "Where are you?")

Thank you thank you thank you - I am a late comer to the whole ZFG22 thing, and also the ping maps, but I was sure someone had looked into this - thank you for this information. It confirms a lot for me!!!

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 11:39 AM
Valhall, I found one refrence to Caylee having a cold, on doc hand numbered page 1121. It is dated May 23. Casey says, "I'll have to let you know when I get done at the drs. I gave Caylee my cold....I gave her some amy love..."Then on page 1122..."Sounds good. I'll be stuck here for another hour. So many kids...I'm trying! This is the 1st time she's ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..."

I believe she said Caylee had only been sick twice in her life. Now we don't have her cell records from May so can't see where she was pinging during these texts that appear to be from a doctor's office. But if she was sick twice that would be again after May 23. Often doctors give an antibiotic (even for colds and flue, quite irresponsible IMO) so there could have been a follow up visit at the end, also very common to get the extra income, perhaps. 10 days is the usual which would be about June 6, allowing for the weekend and time to fit in the appointment. If the antibiotic didn't work then there could be another visit. Sometimes, too an antibiotic will seem to make them better but they show symptoms again later, if it is something other than a virus that runs its course quickly.

Now, a text on June 11, doc page 1138, at 12:18am says, "...I'm in and out of sleep. Stupid drama. This is the day in question and might explain why she was so slow to use her phone the next day. She didn't get her normal 4-6 hour block of sleep, something keeping her up or interrupting her sleep. IMO it is more likely that what ever was going on this day during the night is why the 11th was one of the incorrect dates was given for the last time Caylee was seen. The drama could have involved Tony. After this good night text to Amy she was on with him until past 4:30 am. This gives her very little sleep time, to be on the road again by 9:40 with Caylee dressed and ready to travel. That's only 5 hours to catch some sleep and get ready.

I'm not recalling, was there a prescription found with Caylee's name on it?

Valhall
06-16-2009, 11:54 AM
Valhall, I found one refrence to Caylee having a cold, on doc hand numbered page 1121. It is dated May 23. Casey says, "I'll have to let you know when I get done at the drs. I gave Caylee my cold....I gave her some amy love..."Then on page 1122..."Sounds good. I'll be stuck here for another hour. So many kids...I'm trying! This is the 1st time she's ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..."

I believe she said Caylee had only been sick twice in her life. Now we don't have her cell records from May so can't see where she was pinging during these texts that appear to be from a doctor's office. But if she was sick twice that would be again after May 23. Often doctors give an antibiotic (even for colds and flue, quite irresponsible IMO) so there could have been a follow up visit at the end, also very common to get the extra income, perhaps. 10 days is the usual which would be about June 6, allowing for the weekend and time to fit in the appointment. If the antibiotic didn't work then there could be another visit. Sometimes, too an antibiotic will seem to make them better but they show symptoms again later, if it is something other than a virus that runs its course quickly.

Now, a text on June 11, doc page 1138, at 12:18am says, "...I'm in and out of sleep. Stupid drama. This is the day in question and might explain why she was so slow to use her phone the next day. She didn't get her normal 4-6 hour block of sleep, something keeping her up or interrupting her sleep. IMO it is more likely that what ever was going on this day during the night is why the 11th was one of the incorrect dates was given for the last time Caylee was seen. The drama could have involved Tony. After this good night text to Amy she was on with him until past 4:30 am. This gives her very little sleep time, to be on the road again by 9:40 with Caylee dressed and ready to travel. That's only 5 hours to catch some sleep and get ready.

I'm not recalling, was there a prescription found with Caylee's name on it?

Good info, AE! I do have to ask though...do we have a second confirmation that Caylee was sick? Or just KC's word for it. I don't know about a prescription.

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 11:59 AM
All I've seen about Caylee's health is Casey's text, her initial interview with LE and a pic, taken at TL in early June that looks to me like she is under the weather, around the eyes, such as with a cold or flue bug. I noticed that pic again in the ABC segment today. I'll look at the docs for the items taken in the search warrant for a possible Rx.

Ripley007
06-16-2009, 11:59 AM
Personally, I don't believe ANYTHING KC writes in text messages, or emails...
She USED sickness in herself and others to justify getting out of pre-planned agendas.
Whatever......

Remember, this is a sick girl who Pretended not to be pregnant for 7 MONTHS! This means, her unborn child went without medical care for her first 7 months of life in utero.!!!

Ripley007
06-16-2009, 12:06 PM
All I've seen about Caylee's health is Casey's text, her initial interview with LE and a pic, taken at TL in early June that looks to me like she is under the weather, around the eyes, such as with a cold or flue bug. I noticed that pic again in the ABC segment today. I'll look at the docs for the items taken in the search warrant for a possible Rx.

Who among us mother's, can say that our first born child wasn't taken to the dr. at least 4 times per year? Hello!

MAMABEAR
06-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Personally, I don't believe ANYTHING KC writes in text messages, or emails...
She USED sickness in herself and others to justify getting out of pre-planned agendas.
Whatever......

Remember, this is a sick girl who Pretended not to be pregnant for 7 MONTHS! This means, her unborn child went without medical care for her first 7 months of life in utero.!!!

Hellooooooo------and don't forgit GA's heart attack. And I'll save space by not mentions all the others.

ClockWatcher
06-16-2009, 12:20 PM
Personally, I don't believe ANYTHING KC writes in text messages, or emails...
She USED sickness in herself and others to justify getting out of pre-planned agendas.
Whatever......

Remember, this is a sick girl who Pretended not to be pregnant for 7 MONTHS! This means, her unborn child went without medical care for her first 7 months of life in utero.!!!

Agreed. Also a great ploy for getting cash from Mom or Dad to cover the er...ummm...doctor's visit! (yeah, that's the ticket!) It would cover the reason for having to be up and out the door at such an early hour as well.

I haven't checked the phone record's yet, but I believe they go back to the 6th of June? It's been my experience over the last 19 years of living in Florida to receive a confirmation/reminder call from the Doctor's office at least one business day before I'm scheduled to come in; is there any indication of KC receiving one? Or any calls to the office for an immediate (please, can ya squeeze me in, she's really sick) visit?

Not trying to burden anyone with research, just some thoughts to ponder.

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Who among us mother's, can say that our first born child wasn't taken to the dr. at least 4 times per year? Hello!

Me for one. In fact my 19 year old has never been to the doctor, never anything I couldn't take care of myself. He's never had a cavity either. My 15 and 7 year old have only been to the doc once, for a fracture and a cut I needed to make sure didn't sever any tendons or nerves. I won't bore you with the other 4 children's medical history.

Yes, Valhall, there was a Rx taken, shown on doc page 3739. It was for Caylee, Gentamiacin. No date or doctor is listed on the Evidence sheet. But, I understand why Caylee's eyes looked that way in the pic I was referring to. It is a very strong antibiotic used for such demons as staph and strep bacteria, in the eyes. The possible side effects listed:

Bacterial and fungal corneal ulcers have developed during treatment with Gentamicin ophthalmic preparations.

The most frequently reported adverse reactions are ocular burning and irritation upon drug instillation, non-specific conjunctivitis, conjunctival epithelial defects and conjunctival hyperemia.

Other adverse reactions which have occurred rarely are allergic reactions, thrombocytopenic purpura and hallucinations.

INGREDIENTS
Name (Active Moiety) Type Strength
Gentamicin Sulfate (Gentamicin) Active 3 MILLIGRAM In 1 MILLILITER
Benzalkonium Chloride Inactive
Dibasic Sodium Phosphate Inactive
Hydrochloric Acid Inactive
Monobasic Sodium Phosphate Inactive
Water Inactive
Sodium Chloride Inactive
Sodium Hydroxide Inactive

Precautions
General

Prolonged use of topical antibiotics may give rise to overgrowth of nonsusceptible organisms including fungi.

Bacterial resistance to Gentamicin may also develop. If purulent discharge, inflammation or pain becomes aggravated, the patient should discontinue use of the medication and consult a physician. If irritation or hypersensitivity to any component of the drug develops, the patient should discontinue use of this preparation and appropriate therapy should be instituted.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/gentamicin.html

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 12:54 PM
Agreed. Also a great ploy for getting cash from Mom or Dad to cover the er...ummm...doctor's visit! (yeah, that's the ticket!) It would cover the reason for having to be up and out the door at such an early hour as well.

I haven't checked the phone record's yet, but I believe they go back to the 6th of June? It's been my experience over the last 19 years of living in Florida to receive a confirmation/reminder call from the Doctor's office at least one business day before I'm scheduled to come in; is there any indication of KC receiving one? Or any calls to the office for an immediate (please, can ya squeeze me in, she's really sick) visit?

Not trying to burden anyone with research, just some thoughts to ponder.

Usually people would have their land line on the doc records, not a cell. We don't have the home records, as far as I know. Cell numbers are usually listed for an emergency number, if there is a land line available as primary.

chefmom
06-16-2009, 02:50 PM
Who among us mother's, can say that our first born child wasn't taken to the dr. at least 4 times per year? Hello!

Lol! My first-born was taken probably once a month until her pediatrician wanted to send ME to a doctor! I would freak out over every little thing!

whiteangora
06-16-2009, 02:58 PM
Who among us mother's, can say that our first born child wasn't taken to the dr. at least 4 times per year? Hello!

My two certainly spent their fair share of time at their pediatricians.
Just the vaccination schedules alone, not to mention reg checkups,
colic, colds, earaches.
They began seeing a dentist before they were 3 for checkups, cleaning and sealants.
I wonder if Caylee ever even saw a doctor.

sarah7855
06-16-2009, 03:44 PM
Usually people would have their land line on the doc records, not a cell. We don't have the home records, as far as I know. Cell numbers are usually listed for an emergency number, if there is a land line available as primary.

Casey lived through that phone, so most likely it was the one she gave for records like this. Not to mention the advantage of the appointment reminder calls coming to her and not George and Cindy's land line. Say she were to get money from her parents for a fictional doctor visit for Caylee, then the lack of a reminder call might tip them off. Just a thought.

MAMABEAR
06-16-2009, 04:52 PM
My two certainly spent their fair share of time at their pediatricians.
Just the vaccination schedules alone, not to mention reg checkups,
colic, colds, earaches.
They began seeing a dentist before they were 3 for checkups, cleaning and sealants.
I wonder if Caylee ever even saw a doctor.

I would like to know that to. We do have to member CA was a nurse.

Baxter
06-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Me for one. In fact my 19 year old has never been to the doctor, never anything I couldn't take care of myself. He's never had a cavity either. My 15 and 7 year old have only been to the doc once, for a fracture and a cut I needed to make sure didn't sever any tendons or nerves. I won't bore you with the other 4 children's medical history.

Yes, Valhall, there was a Rx taken, shown on doc page 3739. It was for Caylee, Gentamiacin. No date or doctor is listed on the Evidence sheet. But, I understand why Caylee's eyes looked that way in the pic I was referring to. It is a very strong antibiotic used for such demons as staph and strep bacteria, in the eyes. The possible side effects listed:

Bacterial and fungal corneal ulcers have developed during treatment with Gentamicin ophthalmic preparations.

The most frequently reported adverse reactions are ocular burning and irritation upon drug instillation, non-specific conjunctivitis, conjunctival epithelial defects and conjunctival hyperemia.

Other adverse reactions which have occurred rarely are allergic reactions, thrombocytopenic purpura and hallucinations.

INGREDIENTS
Name (Active Moiety) Type Strength
Gentamicin Sulfate (Gentamicin) Active 3 MILLIGRAM In 1 MILLILITER
Benzalkonium Chloride Inactive
Dibasic Sodium Phosphate Inactive
Hydrochloric Acid Inactive
Monobasic Sodium Phosphate Inactive
Water Inactive
Sodium Chloride Inactive
Sodium Hydroxide Inactive

Precautions
General

Prolonged use of topical antibiotics may give rise to overgrowth of nonsusceptible organisms including fungi.

Bacterial resistance to Gentamicin may also develop. If purulent discharge, inflammation or pain becomes aggravated, the patient should discontinue use of the medication and consult a physician. If irritation or hypersensitivity to any component of the drug develops, the patient should discontinue use of this preparation and appropriate therapy should be instituted.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/gentamicin.html

It sounds like Caylee was being treated for "pink eye".

Baxter
06-16-2009, 05:03 PM
Valhall, I found one refrence to Caylee having a cold, on doc hand numbered page 1121. It is dated May 23. Casey says, "I'll have to let you know when I get done at the drs. I gave Caylee my cold....I gave her some amy love..."Then on page 1122..."Sounds good. I'll be stuck here for another hour. So many kids...I'm trying! This is the 1st time she's ever gotten sick. We made it almost 3 years..."

I believe she said Caylee had only been sick twice in her life. Now we don't have her cell records from May so can't see where she was pinging during these texts that appear to be from a doctor's office. But if she was sick twice that would be again after May 23. Often doctors give an antibiotic (even for colds and flue, quite irresponsible IMO) so there could have been a follow up visit at the end, also very common to get the extra income, perhaps. 10 days is the usual which would be about June 6, allowing for the weekend and time to fit in the appointment. If the antibiotic didn't work then there could be another visit. Sometimes, too an antibiotic will seem to make them better but they show symptoms again later, if it is something other than a virus that runs its course quickly.

Now, a text on June 11, doc page 1138, at 12:18am says, "...I'm in and out of sleep. Stupid drama. This is the day in question and might explain why she was so slow to use her phone the next day. She didn't get her normal 4-6 hour block of sleep, something keeping her up or interrupting her sleep. IMO it is more likely that what ever was going on this day during the night is why the 11th was one of the incorrect dates was given for the last time Caylee was seen. The drama could have involved Tony. After this good night text to Amy she was on with him until past 4:30 am. This gives her very little sleep time, to be on the road again by 9:40 with Caylee dressed and ready to travel. That's only 5 hours to catch some sleep and get ready.

I'm not recalling, was there a prescription found with Caylee's name on it?

BBM

Doctors do not give out antibiotics for a cold or the flu. There are many "super bugs" that are very hard to treat and this practice of treating a virus with an antibiotic is contributing to it.

ZubenElSchemali
06-16-2009, 05:14 PM
BBM

Doctors do not give out antibiotics for a cold or the flu. There are many "super bugs" that are very hard to treat and this practice of treating a virus with an antibiotic is contributing to it.

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I can't tell you how many times someone has told me they were given antibiotics, just in case. It is becoming less common now that they are waking up to how they are weakening the natural immune system. But it is still done routinely quite often.

Yes, you are likely right, pink eye.

scratchthatitch
06-16-2009, 06:05 PM
Usually people would have their land line on the doc records, not a cell. We don't have the home records, as far as I know. Cell numbers are usually listed for an emergency number, if there is a land line available as primary.

Living in Orlando, and having a child the same age as Caylee, I can tell you that our experience has been to give a land-line for the "paper work" portion of the dR.'s records, but then giving "contact" information for both parents while indicating the "primary" phone for scheduling type calls from their office.

The land-line that is requested, I think is used for insurance info. They understand that now everyone has cell phones (and a lot don't use home phones), the quickest most reliable number is the cell number and that's why they ask you which number to contact you on.

scratchthatitch
06-16-2009, 06:13 PM
Also, FWIW, Pediatrician's are not quick to give antibiotics out anymore unless there is a clear infection. Even then, they really encourage you to get your child thru it without the aid of antib. Just give 'em tylenol and lots of sleep! Build their immune systems! We rarely get AB even for the most common ailments for our boys under 3- ear infections. They both had pink eye before 3 and were given eye drops for a few days. My little one gets bug bites easily and scratches them, so Dr. gave me AB creme with an anti-fungal. That's about it. Lots of Flu, lots of colds, no AB unless strep/ bronchitis/ tonsillitis and the likes.

IMO if Caylee were sick enough in the last month of her life to necessitate ABs, Cindy and KC would talk a lot about it as she apparently rarely got sick and that would be a bad one if the Dr. prescribed it. Hope that helps!

MAMABEAR
06-16-2009, 06:48 PM
So---did KC go pay a ticket or did she take Caylee to dr?

cecybeans
06-16-2009, 07:26 PM
Forgive me if I'm off here or remembering things wrong, but I assume we've been talking about June 11 and not July 11? Wasn't June 10 the night that supposedly KC spent at RM's and was still there when he left in the morning? If the "original tiff" took place on the 9th, perhaps that is why she chose to stay at RMs the next evening - the 10th - and perhaps turned off her phone that night until he left the next morning so she would not have been bothered by CA calling every half hour asking her where she and Caylee were staying or telling her to get her fanny home? That would explain the silence or departure from the norm on the morning of the 11th perhaps.

If I have things discombobulated, TIA for your understanding.

doobiedoo52
06-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Forgive me if I'm off here or remembering things wrong, but I assume we've been talking about June 11 and not July 11? Wasn't June 10 the night that supposedly KC spent at RM's and was still there when he left in the morning? If the "original tiff" took place on the 9th, perhaps that is why she chose to stay at RMs the next evening - the 10th - and perhaps turned off her phone that night until he left the next morning so she would not have been bothered by CA calling every half hour asking her where she and Caylee were staying or telling her to get her fanny home? That would explain the silence or departure from the norm on the morning of the 11th perhaps.

If I have things discombobulated, TIA for your understanding.

Not sure if my calendar is totally correct, but I have her staying with RM on the night of the 9th, leaving early in the morning on the 10th.

AZlawyer
06-16-2009, 09:00 PM
Forgive me if I'm off here or remembering things wrong, but I assume we've been talking about June 11 and not July 11? Wasn't June 10 the night that supposedly KC spent at RM's and was still there when he left in the morning? If the "original tiff" took place on the 9th, perhaps that is why she chose to stay at RMs the next evening - the 10th - and perhaps turned off her phone that night until he left the next morning so she would not have been bothered by CA calling every half hour asking her where she and Caylee were staying or telling her to get her fanny home? That would explain the silence or departure from the norm on the morning of the 11th perhaps.

If I have things discombobulated, TIA for your understanding.

Cell phone pings show Casey was at or near her parents' house the night of June 11.

ClockWatcher
06-16-2009, 10:39 PM
Good info, AE! I do have to ask though...do we have a second confirmation that Caylee was sick? Or just KC's word for it. I don't know about a prescription.

Don't mean to answer for AE, but this popped into memory... no other outside confirmation that I could find other than the "little snot-head" reference from her IM's with Tony R. on May 8th.

June 11th was also the day she and Caylee accompanied TonE to the mall to pass around fliers and had a late lunch at the Cheesecake Factory.

MAMABEAR
06-16-2009, 10:47 PM
All that info is probably right here in these 52 pages.

Brini
06-17-2009, 07:37 PM
Me for one. In fact my 19 year old has never been to the doctor, never anything I couldn't take care of myself. He's never had a cavity either. My 15 and 7 year old have only been to the doc once, for a fracture and a cut I needed to make sure didn't sever any tendons or nerves. I won't bore you with the other 4 children's medical history.

Yes, Valhall, there was a Rx taken, shown on doc page 3739. It was for Caylee, Gentamiacin. No date or doctor is listed on the Evidence sheet. But, I understand why Caylee's eyes looked that way in the pic I was referring to. It is a very strong antibiotic used for such demons as staph and strep bacteria, in the eyes. The possible side effects listed:

Bacterial and fungal corneal ulcers have developed during treatment with Gentamicin ophthalmic preparations.

The most frequently reported adverse reactions are ocular burning and irritation upon drug instillation, non-specific conjunctivitis, conjunctival epithelial defects and conjunctival hyperemia.

Other adverse reactions which have occurred rarely are allergic reactions, thrombocytopenic purpura and hallucinations.

INGREDIENTS
Name (Active Moiety) Type Strength
Gentamicin Sulfate (Gentamicin) Active 3 MILLIGRAM In 1 MILLILITER
Benzalkonium Chloride Inactive
Dibasic Sodium Phosphate Inactive
Hydrochloric Acid Inactive
Monobasic Sodium Phosphate Inactive
Water Inactive
Sodium Chloride Inactive
Sodium Hydroxide Inactive

Precautions
General

Prolonged use of topical antibiotics may give rise to overgrowth of nonsusceptible organisms including fungi.

Bacterial resistance to Gentamicin may also develop. If purulent discharge, inflammation or pain becomes aggravated, the patient should discontinue use of the medication and consult a physician. If irritation or hypersensitivity to any component of the drug develops, the patient should discontinue use of this preparation and appropriate therapy should be instituted.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/gentamicin.html

It was for KC's conjunctivitis. Those were eye drops.

Brini
06-17-2009, 07:39 PM
It sounds like Caylee was being treated for "pink eye".

Yes., she was.

ZubenElSchemali
06-17-2009, 07:40 PM
It was for KC's conjunctivitis. Those were eye drops.

Yes, I realize this is eye drops and we came to the conclusion earlier it was likely a case of pink eye or something similar.

Brini
06-17-2009, 07:40 PM
BBM

Doctors do not give out antibiotics for a cold or the flu. There are many "super bugs" that are very hard to treat and this practice of treating a virus with an antibiotic is contributing to it.

Some still do, or let their patients bully them into giving them ABX for a virus. :-(((((((((((((((((((((

That's why we now have a couple MORE super-bugs.

JWG
08-13-2009, 12:54 AM
Thinking back to the mysterious zenaida myspace page, was KC thinking of this in advance and hoping to use myspace hacks to obscure her involvement?

Why do I ask? If you recall those infamous Google searches for chloroform, there were a few searches included that had nothing to do with killing (as we know it). Here are the ones I found interesting:
03/06/2008 14:52:00 Thu 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hide+blog&btnG=Search
03/06/2008 14:49:40 Thu 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hide+myspace&btnG=Google+Search
03/05/2008 15:46:55 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=content+box+generator&btnG=Search
03/05/2008 15:46:44 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?q=content+box+for+myspace&hl=en&start=10&sa=N
03/05/2008 15:46:16 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=content+box+for+myspace&btnG=Google+Search
The top hits for each will lead you to myspace hack forums.

FWIW

OneLostGrl
08-13-2009, 01:27 AM
Thinking back to the mysterious zenaida myspace page, was KC thinking of this in advance and hoping to use myspace hacks to obscure her involvement?

Why do I ask? If you recall those infamous Google searches for chloroform, there were a few searches included that had nothing to do with killing (as we know it). Here are the ones I found interesting:
03/06/2008 14:52:00 Thu 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hide+blog&btnG=Search
03/06/2008 14:49:40 Thu 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hide+myspace&btnG=Google+Search
03/05/2008 15:46:55 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=content+box+generator&btnG=Search
03/05/2008 15:46:44 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?q=content+box+for+myspace&hl=en&start=10&sa=N
03/05/2008 15:46:16 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=content+box+for+myspace&btnG=Google+Search
The top hits for each will lead you to myspace hack forums.

FWIW

It looks more like she was trying to find out how to make a "tiny" profile. Before Myspace came out with the new versions it was pretty popular with teens and twenty somethings to "hide" all the regular stuff on their profiles and get rid of the "interests" sections, the "about me", "hero's", "music" etc. and you had to use codes to do that back then. Usually the only thing really left behind were comment boxes and contact tables which you can make on your own through the websites that also have the codes for "hiding" interest sections.

Truthwillsetufree
08-13-2009, 01:46 AM
Something that keeps creeping up in my brain is the entire A family appear to not want Caylee in the system, to collect all kinds of benefits many of us recieved when we had are children. It seems the A's were trying to stay off the radar since conception when it applied to Caylee. To date GA and CA have learned how to network into owning a foundation, why didn't they use the same type of gusto in acquiring the benefits awarded to a child when a parent dies. CA stated she began the paper work at her attorneys, which we know she blantanly did not follow through with this according to FBI interview. Now we know how GA is meticulous with his cars, yard and seems to pride himself with being consistent and thorough. CA has notebooks prepaired for LE interviews at a time when most would have a difficult time writing and don't forget about her drug dealer spreadsheet. The A's have tried to divert attention towards an entity called, The Nanny, Zani, Zeneda, Zenida ect..... to include any of KC friends she may have hung out with. No Nanny[/B is my vote because of all the energy going into establishing one. [B] Because of kC seasoned attitude while forging checks I feel there is an ID out there. As thorough parents the A's should have voiced there concern over kC not having proper ID and the negative outcomes that may occur while driving all over Florida if in accident, especially if Caylee was in the car. Following pings and such again no nanny. Now we are still left with the why ZG's name was chosen when Kc referred to a specific last name. I feel we know kC can take the most mundane and elaborate on it, like a made for TV add. Criminal minds can be very innovative as we've seen. Sociopaths will sometimes confess to a lessor crime while being accused of a horrendous crime. When KC made the comment, (I probably will misquote), "I'm guilty of dropping my daughter off and trusting ect.... and was stupid for thinking I could find her myself" That was my first ringy, dingy, of ,"Whoa, she's telling a mistruth!"

Bolded part by me...your post struck that nerve again, the nerve that keeps sayin' WTH?
No prenatal care for Caylee before she was born.
Who paid for Caylee's birth and KC's hospital bill after Caylee's birth? Medicaid? Private insurance?
Did Caylee receive her normal childhood vaccinations?
Did Caylee go for regular well child check ups?
Did Caylee see a dentist?
Why did the A's not persue death benefits that by all accounts Caylee was entitled to receive?
Was Caylee still on Medicaid if ever?
Was KC receiving other state benefits?
Talk about keeping a child off the radar......
Could KC have been receiving benefits under 2 names? One being ZFG?
Just questions....Hmmmmmmm

Brini
08-13-2009, 01:49 AM
Bolded part by me...your post struck that nerve again, the nerve that keeps sayin' WTH?
No prenatal care for Caylee before she was born.
Who paid for Caylee's birth and KC's hospital bill after Caylee's birth? Medicaid? Private insurance?
Did Caylee receive her normal childhood vaccinations?
Did Caylee go for regular well child check ups?
Did Caylee see a dentist?
Why did the A's not persue death benefits that by all accounts Caylee was entitled to receive?
Was Caylee still on Medicaid if ever?
Was KC receiving other state benefits?
Talk about keeping a child off the radar......
Could KC have been receiving benefits under 2 names? One being ZFG?
Just questions....Hmmmmmmm

I wouldn't put it past her.

But, I don't think the feds would overlook it.

They sure as heck have access to SS records.

Themis
08-13-2009, 02:09 AM
Bolded part by me...your post struck that nerve again, the nerve that keeps sayin' WTH?
No prenatal care for Caylee before she was born.
Who paid for Caylee's birth and KC's hospital bill after Caylee's birth? Medicaid? Private insurance?
Did Caylee receive her normal childhood vaccinations?
Did Caylee go for regular well child check ups?
Did Caylee see a dentist?
Why did the A's not persue death benefits that by all accounts Caylee was entitled to receive?
Was Caylee still on Medicaid if ever?
Was KC receiving other state benefits?
Talk about keeping a child off the radar......
Could KC have been receiving benefits under 2 names? One being ZFG?
Just questions....Hmmmmmmm


Caylee might not have been eligible for Social Security child's benefits if the father didin't work long enough in a job where he paid social security taxes.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10085.html

Themis
08-13-2009, 02:10 AM
KC wouldn't be eligible for TANF while she was living at the A home.

JWG
08-13-2009, 09:09 AM
It looks more like she was trying to find out how to make a "tiny" profile. Before Myspace came out with the new versions it was pretty popular with teens and twenty somethings to "hide" all the regular stuff on their profiles and get rid of the "interests" sections, the "about me", "hero's", "music" etc. and you had to use codes to do that back then. Usually the only thing really left behind were comment boxes and contact tables which you can make on your own through the websites that also have the codes for "hiding" interest sections.

Thanks OLG ... you are probably right about that.

The only reason it jumped out at me was the specific search to hide the blog. The blog is where the sign-up date is recorded, and she could have been trying to hide that. :waitasec:

CastlesBurning
08-13-2009, 09:20 AM
KC wouldn't be eligible for TANF while she was living at the A home.


I just looked up TANF, and under the rules and regulations section, it says unmarried teen parents MUST be living at home with an adult in order to qualify...however, they must be attending school at the time. Anyone else, is supposed to either be working or showing that they are making serious strides toward employment.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/law-reg/finalrule/aspesum.htm

sarah7855
08-13-2009, 09:23 AM
Thanks OLG ... you are probably right about that.

The only reason it jumped out at me was the specific search to hide the blog. The blog is where the sign-up date is recorded, and she could have been trying to hide that. :waitasec:

Good point!

Themis
08-13-2009, 12:51 PM
I wouldn't put it past her.

But, I don't think the feds would overlook it.

They sure as heck have access to SS records.
Actually, Brini, Social Security account information is confidential by statute. The federal LEOs would not have access to it without a warrant and for a warrant they would need probable cause.

lin
08-13-2009, 03:13 PM
Actually, Brini, Social Security account information is confidential by statute. The federal LEOs would not have access to it without a warrant and for a warrant they would need probable cause.

They may cooperate with a Federal warrant but in my experience tend to be dismissive of state entity requirements; at least subpoenas/court orders signed by state court judges. Had to go back and get an order to compel the party to sign a release before SS would turn over anything and even then it was like pulling teeth.

Woe.be.gone
08-13-2009, 04:11 PM
They may cooperate with a Federal warrant but in my experience tend to be dismissive of state entity requirements; at least subpoenas/court orders signed by state court judges. Had to go back and get an order to compel the party to sign a release before SS would turn over anything and even then it was like pulling teeth.

Can authorities tell that a certain Soc.Security number has earned/used against that number yet not have access to the details?

For instance, at our house, we get periodic statements that spell out our individual circumstances. I could go to my file and easily show our status with regard to Soc.Security under each number. Is there a way to tell if, let's use the A's for an example, they were withholding divulging the details so LE can't see them, yet LE knows something is fishy because of some records they do have access to? Because I would happily show LE my statement under my number if they requested me to do so. Have I totally confused you?

OneLostGrl
08-13-2009, 04:37 PM
Thanks OLG ... you are probably right about that.

The only reason it jumped out at me was the specific search to hide the blog. The blog is where the sign-up date is recorded, and she could have been trying to hide that. :waitasec:

Good point, I wouldn't doubt it!

Pink Panther
08-13-2009, 04:57 PM
I just looked up TANF, and under the rules and regulations section, it says unmarried teen parents MUST be living at home with an adult in order to qualify...however, they must be attending school at the time. Anyone else, is supposed to either be working or showing that they are making serious strides toward employment.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/law-reg/finalrule/aspesum.htm
Hahaha. This was most certainly too much for KC to "handle"!

MOO

lin
08-13-2009, 05:04 PM
Can authorities tell that a certain Soc.Security number has earned/used against that number yet not have access to the details?

For instance, at our house, we get periodic statements that spell out our individual circumstances. I could go to my file and easily show our status with regard to Soc.Security under each number. Is there a way to tell if, let's use the A's for an example, they were withholding divulging the details so LE can't see them, yet LE knows something is fishy because of some records they do have access to? Because I would happily show LE my statement under my number if they requested me to do so. Have I totally confused you?

Yes, actually, you have; but I'm sure it's me. :crosseyed:

But when has not understanding something ever stopped me from commenting on it? :)

IIRC, there were some records accessed by LE in some of the early dumps showing whether or not some of the folks involved with the case had a work history. How they accessed these, I don't remember. Possibly through voluntary provision of SS#. I do suspect they have some sort of database, like a skip/trace thing for tracking folks and can use SS#'s or names and link the two together but maybe someone in LE can shed more light on that. What I mean is, they may have a database that is linked to SS somehow and would allow them access to certain limited info. A lot of govt & other databases are getting linked together --- notice how we don't have to include w-2's so much on our 1040's anymore.

But as for direct access to SS records or their cooperation... well, my experience is they just plain don't want to do it. Even a garnishment order they'll try to get out of complying with it. Try talking to them sometime about an imaginary state order you pretend to have and watch how fast whomever answers the phone starts laughing and manages to choke out something along the lines of, 'but we're Federal, honey, we don't care 'bout no stinking state orders!' It's like a territorial thing; they don't seem to want to be in the habit of complying with any state order.

Valhall
08-14-2009, 07:26 AM
Thinking back to the mysterious zenaida myspace page, was KC thinking of this in advance and hoping to use myspace hacks to obscure her involvement?

Why do I ask? If you recall those infamous Google searches for chloroform, there were a few searches included that had nothing to do with killing (as we know it). Here are the ones I found interesting:
03/06/2008 14:52:00 Thu 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hide+blog&btnG=Search
03/06/2008 14:49:40 Thu 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hide+myspace&btnG=Google+Search
03/05/2008 15:46:55 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=content+box+generator&btnG=Search
03/05/2008 15:46:44 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?q=content+box+for+myspace&hl=en&start=10&sa=N
03/05/2008 15:46:16 Wed 1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=content+box+for+myspace&btnG=Google+Search
The top hits for each will lead you to myspace hack forums.

FWIW

I don't know, JWG. I noticed this early on and consider the same, but I think the odds are greater this particular series of searches were benign and totally unrelated. Of course, when you couple them with the fact they occurred in the same short time period that she was searching chloroform, etc. (which I'm convinced was not benign and is totally related)...I might be wrong.

It's a toss up until we see the released discovery on this myspace...which I continue to pray they have pursued and will release.

Patty G
08-14-2009, 09:42 AM
Let's move the discussion about whether or not Caylee was receiving SS payments here:

Casey getting SS payments for Caylee? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks.

essies
08-18-2009, 02:57 PM
Wasn't sure where to share these 2 videos! I guess this thread is as good as any-since it discusses many issues about KC and the murder! It's a road trip! You'll feel like you're like you're right there!!!


YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 1

YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 2

Def gives ya alot of things to ponder!!:waitasec:

essies
08-18-2009, 03:12 PM
4709 and 4701! One house belongs to a Zenaida and one house belongs to a Gonzalez! KC says she dropped Caylee off with ZG between 9 and 1! Wow-this reeks of premeditation!!:furious:

Brini
08-18-2009, 04:01 PM
Pretty interesting!

There ya go! No conspiracy. KC diddit, by herself, and dropped Caylee's body off at the closest and easiest place.

weasel
08-18-2009, 04:32 PM
4709 and 4701! One house belongs to a Zenaida and one house belongs to a Gonzalez! KC says she dropped Caylee off with ZG between 9 and 1! Wow-this reeks of premeditation!!:furious:


Weirder than that ... the address where she was "dropped" ... 8505 ...
Caylee's birthday is 8/5/05. If I heard him correctly.

essies
08-18-2009, 04:46 PM
Found this on another thread and thought it might be a nice companion to the road trip videos!



http://tinyurl.com/alttls

Thanks Sundance for finding this!:blowkiss:

countzero
08-18-2009, 05:35 PM
essies,

Both the videos and the map really helps put it all into perspective. Thanks for posting all of them. :blowkiss:

Intermezzo
08-18-2009, 07:19 PM
4709 and 4701! One house belongs to a Zenaida and one house belongs to a Gonzalez! KC says she dropped Caylee off with ZG between 9 and 1! Wow-this reeks of premeditation!!:furious:

I believe(d) she used "between 9 and 1" because that's the time TL was in class.
Now this coincidence, or not, Casey could have looked at those homes as she drove by and formulated... I gave her to ZG between 09 and 01.

essies
08-18-2009, 07:32 PM
I believe(d) she used "between 9 and 1" because that's the time TL was in class.
Now this coincidence, or not, Casey could have looked at those homes as she drove by and formulated... I gave her to ZG between 09 and 01.

I'm having a hard time thinking she put that much thought into it. But, on the other hand-can all this be just coincidence?:waitasec: I wish I knew!:mad:

Intermezzo
08-18-2009, 08:52 PM
Wasn't sure where to share these 2 videos! I guess this thread is as good as any-since it discusses many issues about KC and the murder! It's a road trip! You'll feel like you're like you're right there!!!


YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvk5kSqYmrs)

YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvKVtDZVgkw)

Def gives ya alot of things to ponder!!:waitasec:

Well he's done his research wonder if he's a member here...even filmed the home the PI videoed and knew who the previous owners were there as well and the backyard looks cleaned up.
Wonder when Part 3 of the Casey Tour of Orlando will be posted?

Intermezzo
08-18-2009, 08:57 PM
I'm having a hard time thinking she put that much thought into it. But, on the other hand-can all this be just coincidence?:waitasec: I wish I knew!:mad:

BBM
Same here
:waitasec: But then again those darn coincidences :doh:

essies
08-18-2009, 09:07 PM
Well, after watchinng this report from KB I'm thinking perhaps KC was getting help from dear old mom and dad! Maybe G&C did some research (knowing Caylee was dead) so they could present LE with a plausible explanation of a ZFG connection! I really like the lawyer KB always uses in her reports. He states that he doesn't believe in coincidence! Me neither-too many of them to be coincidence!!
YouTube - Mystery Surrounds Abandoned House Shown On Anthony's P.I. Video

zoomom
08-18-2009, 09:28 PM
Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.

JWG
08-18-2009, 10:00 PM
I meant to throw this out there a while ago, and then I had a system crash. So I am a little late to the party. :bang:

Fly back to the evening of July 15, 2008 when the police arrive at the Anthony’s and begin questioning the family. Written statements from George, Cindy, and Lee were all collected around 10:15 PM that evening.:cop:

These statements were collected while emotions were running high, and confusion ruled the day. :waitasec: Cindy stated she had not seen Caylee since June 8. George, probably convinced Cindy’s timing was right, said he last saw her the next day – June 9. Lee made mention of KC’s 31-day assertion.

KC, however, wrote her statement later, at 1:05 AM on the 16th. During the previous three hours no doubt George’s recollection of the last time he saw Caylee was replayed multiple times. KC, of course, was listening. This would include not only what he thought he saw Caylee wearing, but also when he saw them leave. :pinocchio:

When she finally wrote her statement at 1:00 AM she included all of the incorrect facts her parents were desperately trying to remember. The date. The clothing. :rolleyes:

What I found interesting is what she said about the time she dropped off Caylee. In his August 4 interview George is pretty firm in his belief he saw them leave the home about 10 to 1 PM. :talker: No doubt this was discussed on the evening of July 15, with KC listening.

If you look at KC’s written statement, on the first line, she writes the word “around” and then scribbles it out, following it with between 9AM and 1PM.
To me, it appears as if KC was going to follow George’s lead and write “around 1PM”, and then decided not to, instead throwing out the very wide range of 9AM to 1PM.

IMO, this lends strong credence to the notion that she knew exactly where she had discarded Caylee, she had researched it, and was using the information to keep her fantasy world “facts” straight. :thumb:

sadyjade
08-18-2009, 10:32 PM
snipped with respect:

If you look at KC’s written statement, on the first line, she writes the word “around” and then scribbles it out, following it with between 9AM and 1PM.
To me, it appears as if KC was going to follow George’s lead and write “around 1PM”, and then decided not to, instead throwing out the very wide range of 9AM to 1PM.

IMO, this lends strong credence to the notion that she knew exactly where she had discarded Caylee, she had researched it, and was using the information to keep her fantasy world “facts” straight. :thumb:

I whole heartedly agree, JWG

Lil Miss Sleuth
08-18-2009, 10:53 PM
In the videos posted from Youtube above by Intermezzo, the narrator Marinadedave notes that someone found an address to where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 - Caylee's birthday. All you have to do is type the address in Google Maps and it pops right up right by the remains site. Guess that was what was meant by she will be found by her birthday - she was literally found by her birthday number wise.

Gives me chills. :eek:

CrankyPants
08-18-2009, 11:09 PM
In the videos posted from Youtube above by Intermezzo, the narrator Marinadedave notes that someone found an address to where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 - Caylee's birthday. All you have to do is type the address in Google Maps and it pops right up right by the remains site. Guess that was what was meant by she will be found by her birthday - she was literally found by her birthday number wise.

Gives me chills. :eek:

I honestly don't believe KC is some sort of savant or criminal mastermind, but the "coincidences" in this case are overwhelming!

Chills.....you betcha!

countzero
08-18-2009, 11:11 PM
Yeppers, all information from the A clan has either been pre-conceived and/or in code.

Imagine what LE/SA and especially the FBI have if we, as a collective group of amateur sleuths have discovered. :woohoo:

essies
08-18-2009, 11:13 PM
It all fits together like pieces to a puzzle-doesn't it!! OMG-KC WAS telling the truth in a backwards kind of way!!:furious:

countzero
08-18-2009, 11:23 PM
Yes it does essies. Now the $64K question is ..... drum roll please ......... how exactly will JB and crew handle it when the evidence that is still being investigated is given to them and the facts are there in black and white and are beyond disputing by LKB and team?

I am willing to bet there is such evidence that is just not able to be labeled as "junk science" by LKB that proves beyond a shadow of ANY doubt that KC IS responsible for Caylee's murder and tossing her like three day old trash into the woods.

What my wish is after JB and crew receives such proof of evidence they admit guilt, even an alford plea and save the tax payers in Florida the expense of a trial. Just move onto the sentencing phase.

Then the SA nails CA/GA/LA as accomplices to Caylee's murder.

sadyjade
08-18-2009, 11:29 PM
Yes it does essies. Now the $64K question is ..... drum roll please ......... how exactly will JB and crew handle it when the evidence that is still being investigated is given to them and the facts are there in black and white and are beyond disputing by LKB and team?

I am willing to bet there is such evidence that is just not able to be labeled as "junk science" by LKB that proves beyond a shadow of ANY doubt that KC IS responsible for Caylee's murder and tossing her like three day old trash into the woods.

What my wish is after JB and crew receives such proof of evidence they admit guilt, even an alford plea and save the tax payers in Florida the expense of a trial. Just move onto the sentencing phase.

Then the SA nails CA/GA/LA as accomplices to Caylee's murder.

Ahhhh, wouldn't that be somethin! A girl can dream, right?

essies
08-18-2009, 11:33 PM
LOL!! I had to run look up what an Alford plea is! I think we'll have to have that discussion on another thread! I want her to get the max sentence!!!:furious:

countzero
08-18-2009, 11:48 PM
LOL!! I had to run look up what an Alford plea is! I think we'll have to have that discussion on another thread! I want her to get the max sentence!!!:furious:

:toast: From our collective lips and wishes to the Judge's :Justice: :gavel:

Oakley
08-19-2009, 12:06 AM
Whew! Took me a long time but I finally read through this entire thread. KUDO'S for the amazing work done here!!! She truly left a trail of crumbs leading back to herself (as ZG.) What is puzzling to me is I didn't think she was that intelligent. She dropped her off between (470)9 and (470)1 Hopespring Drive, with Zenaida Gonzalez (indeed, persons with those names resided in those two houses.) Caylee would be found by her birthday: 8905 (Aug 9, 2005) Suburban Drive. It almost appears to be a brilliantly thought out plan. Yet it can't be anything short of diabolical. IMHO.

abel
08-19-2009, 12:55 AM
I know this is off topic but since the thread went in this direction I have to ask a question that's burning inside me.

For what reason would she be giving all these so-called clues? Wouldn't it have been better for her if the body had never been found? (assuming she did it, of course) Why lead anybody, including her family, to the body? Remorse? Helping with a cover-up? Like, why would she scratch out "about 1" and change it to "between 9A.M and 1P.M. to point to the location of the body when she hadn't even been charged with a crime yet? I'm trying to understand what the reasoning would be, then maybe I can look at this in a different light.

For now, I don't believe that she came up with all these Columbo-type clues for people to decipher but I love the tenacity here!

cecybeans
08-19-2009, 01:00 AM
I'm having a hard time thinking she put that much thought into it. But, on the other hand-can all this be just coincidence?:waitasec: I wish I knew!:mad:

The only way I can think of all this coincidence without going nuts is that KC just isn't smart enough to have done that - she is certainly not smart enough to even fake the kind of behavior or affect necessary to make anyone even think she is an innocent, grieving mother who had nothing to do with killing her child. She can't think more than ten minutes ahead; her excuses are worse than a four-year-old.

I'd rather think their are "forces in the universe" - whether placed directly or indirectly by God, karma, or a combination of powers that helps anything in nature eventually make good order out of chaos if you give it enough time. It makes me feel better to think that Caylee has "friends in high places" now that are coordinating those forces and leading everyone to realize that there is no other reasonable answer or conclusion than KC as responsible that will bring this case justice. It may sound like magical thinking, but let's face it, nobody can beat the Anthony family on that when it comes to this issue - and it makes me feel better to think that, although Caylee may be in a place now where she has forgiven her family, those of us who have invested our hearts and minds in this and what her death signifies about how we need to protect children in our societies - we have need to see that we can balance the scales of justice here in the material world.

BondJamesBond
08-19-2009, 01:17 AM
If you look at KC’s written statement, on the first line, she writes the word “around” and then scribbles it out, following it with between 9AM and 1PM.
To me, it appears as if KC was going to follow George’s lead and write “around 1PM”, and then decided not to, instead throwing out the very wide range of 9AM to 1PM.
*snipped*

...also matching the range of time, IIRC, that Tony was typically in class, hence, Casey would be less likely to be contradicted by other eyewitnesses. Note that when Casey wrote her statement she'd had weeks of establishing a new routine around Tony's schedule. Hmmm...:waitasec:...Casey thinks...constructing this around a Monday means I'm free after 9AM...George pinned it down to ~1PM.

FWIW, I think we gave some treatment to this scribbling, etc. on the Case Analysis Thread re: confusion over 6/9 vs. 6/16. Fascinating when you consider how Casey constructed her statement...like a 7th-grader tries to fill-up the double-spaced pages on a homework assignment set to a minimum number of pages :rolleyes:. All the while LE swarmed Hopespring and Caylee's remains lie just a few hundred yards away.

The observations 'bout former residence addresses triangulating Caylee's disposal location, the birthdate address on Suburban, etc....are certainly interesting, but, IMHO, Casey spent much less time planning & carrying out Caylee's disposal than most of you have spent reading this thread. And if you read as slowly as I do :bang:...maybe less time than it took to read this post.

"10-minutes-@-a-time"...one characterization - I have to admit - where LP was on the mark.

magic-cat
08-19-2009, 01:53 AM
*snipped*

...also matching the range of time, IIRC, that Tony was typically in class, hence, Casey would be less likely to be contradicted by other eyewitnesses. Note that when Casey wrote her statement she'd had weeks of establishing a new routine around Tony's schedule. Hmmm...:waitasec:...Casey thinks...constructing this around a Monday means I'm free after 9AM...George pinned it down to ~1PM.

FWIW, I think we gave some treatment to this scribbling, etc. on the Case Analysis Thread re: confusion over 6/9 vs. 6/16. Fascinating when you consider how Casey constructed her statement...like a 7th-grader tries to fill-up the double-spaced pages on a homework assignment set to a minimum number of pages :rolleyes:. All the while LE swarmed Hopespring and Caylee's remains lie just a few hundred yards away.

The observations 'bout former residence addresses triangulating Caylee's disposal location, the birthdate address on Suburban, etc....are certainly interesting, but, IMHO, Casey spent much less time planning & carrying out Caylee's disposal than most of you have spent reading this thread. And if you read as slowly as I do :bang:...maybe less time than it took to read this post.

"10-minutes-@-a-time"...one characterization - I have to admit - where LP was on the mark.

Hey Bond! I have surely missed you!:blowkiss:
Brilliant thoughts about how she constructed her statement to include things that she and her parents had discussed that evening. Also, I agree that all the details such as the triangulation address, the actual disposal address, were NOT part of Caseys plan. I think the universe added these little idiodyncrasies just to tighten the noose so to speak. Welcome back Bond! REALLY!!!:woohoo:

magic-cat
08-19-2009, 02:10 AM
I meant to throw this out there a while ago, and then I had a system crash. So I am a little late to the party. :bang:

Fly back to the evening of July 15, 2008 when the police arrive at the Anthony’s and begin questioning the family. Written statements from George, Cindy, and Lee were all collected around 10:15 PM that evening.:cop:

These statements were collected while emotions were running high, and confusion ruled the day. :waitasec: Cindy stated she had not seen Caylee since June 8. George, probably convinced Cindy’s timing was right, said he last saw her the next day – June 9. Lee made mention of KC’s 31-day assertion.

KC, however, wrote her statement later, at 1:05 AM on the 16th. During the previous three hours no doubt George’s recollection of the last time he saw Caylee was replayed multiple times. KC, of course, was listening. This would include not only what he thought he saw Caylee wearing, but also when he saw them leave. :pinocchio:

When she finally wrote her statement at 1:00 AM she included all of the incorrect facts her parents were desperately trying to remember. The date. The clothing. :rolleyes:

What I found interesting is what she said about the time she dropped off Caylee. In his August 4 interview George is pretty firm in his belief he saw them leave the home about 10 to 1 PM. :talker: No doubt this was discussed on the evening of July 15, with KC listening.

If you look at KC’s written statement, on the first line, she writes the word “around” and then scribbles it out, following it with between 9AM and 1PM.
To me, it appears as if KC was going to follow George’s lead and write “around 1PM”, and then decided not to, instead throwing out the very wide range of 9AM to 1PM.

IMO, this lends strong credence to the notion that she knew exactly where she had discarded Caylee, she had researched it, and was using the information to keep her fantasy world “facts” straight. :thumb:

Brilliant as usual! So sorry to hear about your crash! :eek:

lin
08-19-2009, 02:30 AM
The only way I can think of all this coincidence without going nuts is that KC just isn't smart enough to have done that - she is certainly not smart enough to even fake the kind of behavior or affect necessary to make anyone even think she is an innocent, grieving mother who had nothing to do with killing her child. She can't think more than ten minutes ahead; her excuses are worse than a four-year-old.

I'd rather think their are "forces in the universe" - whether placed directly or indirectly by God, karma, or a combination of powers that helps anything in nature eventually make good order out of chaos if you give it enough time. It makes me feel better to think that Caylee has "friends in high places" now that are coordinating those forces and leading everyone to realize that there is no other reasonable answer or conclusion than KC as responsible that will bring this case justice. It may sound like magical thinking, but let's face it, nobody can beat the Anthony family on that when it comes to this issue - and it makes me feel better to think that, although Caylee may be in a place now where she has forgiven her family, those of us who have invested our hearts and minds in this and what her death signifies about how we need to protect children in our societies - we have need to see that we can balance the scales of justice here in the material world.

Excellent post, as always. Perhaps it was KC's very guilty subconscious putting out information that her conscious mind didn't even notice, much less have the capacity to grasp or use. Think 'body language' and the unintentional clues that are often given and it's not such a leap to consider a lot of what a person says in trying to deflect will actually lead straight to the truth.

TakeNote
08-19-2009, 03:13 AM
Wasn't sure where to share these 2 videos! I guess this thread is as good as any-since it discusses many issues about KC and the murder! It's a road trip! You'll feel like you're like you're right there!!!


YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvk5kSqYmrs)

YouTube - Driving Miss Casey Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvKVtDZVgkw)

Def gives ya alot of things to ponder!!:waitasec:

wow....thank you for posting these....it was an eye opener wasnt it? its amazing how close to the road Caylee was.....and the birth date with the address....wow....that is a bit creepy!

countzero
08-19-2009, 09:25 AM
What we see and read as clues given by KC and the A clan are no doubt years of an established means and method of communication between these people.

Remember folks, KC lived and breathed her former life by either text, cell phone, or computer social groups. She apparently never had the opportunity to actually develop any other communication skills; such as formal writing :crazy: texting doesn't count.

Seriously, how did this family communicate with each other prior to cell phone/text and computer technology?

lisalei321
08-19-2009, 09:46 AM
Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.


I can answer the plate question :woohoo: for me, that's rare!

Florida only requires a rear plate, you don't even get the option for a front one.

That almost got me a ticket one time in Indiana, cause the Officer didn't believe me :)

Intermezzo
08-19-2009, 09:49 AM
Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.

BBM

Florida issues 1 license plate...many people put plastic tags on the front stating a city or business etc...or some even keep the tag from their previous state or country on the front- but I don't think the Pontiac had any kind of plate on the front.

MissJames
08-19-2009, 09:51 AM
The only way I can think of all this coincidence without going nuts is that KC just isn't smart enough to have done that - she is certainly not smart enough to even fake the kind of behavior or affect necessary to make anyone even think she is an innocent, grieving mother who had nothing to do with killing her child. She can't think more than ten minutes ahead; her excuses are worse than a four-year-old.

I'd rather think their are "forces in the universe" - whether placed directly or indirectly by God, karma, or a combination of powers that helps anything in nature eventually make good order out of chaos if you give it enough time. It makes me feel better to think that Caylee has "friends in high places" now that are coordinating those forces and leading everyone to realize that there is no other reasonable answer or conclusion than KC as responsible that will bring this case justice. It may sound like magical thinking, but let's face it, nobody can beat the Anthony family on that when it comes to this issue - and it makes me feel better to think that, although Caylee may be in a place now where she has forgiven her family, those of us who have invested our hearts and minds in this and what her death signifies about how we need to protect children in our societies - we have need to see that we can balance the scales of justice here in the material world.
This is what I believe,also,Cecybeans. Good topic for our Astrosleuths.

sarah7855
08-19-2009, 09:54 AM
The observations 'bout former residence addresses triangulating Caylee's disposal location, the birthdate address on Suburban, etc....are certainly interesting, but, IMHO, Casey spent much less time planning & carrying out Caylee's disposal than most of you have spent reading this thread. And if you read as slowly as I do :bang:...maybe less time than it took to read this post.

"10-minutes-@-a-time"...one characterization - I have to admit - where LP was on the mark.

*snipped respecfully*

I am not entirely sure what I think about these "coincidences". Are they in fact truly just coincidences or is it more? I keep going back and forth. Probably because I can't wrap my head around WHY someone would do such a thing, let alone a mother to her child. :furious:

At any rate, just wanted to throw this out there for thought. We have all discussed at length the possibility that Casey was living in a fantasy world, plotting and planning the demise of possibly a number of people: George, Cindy, Amy, Caylee...maybe part of those fantasies was all of these eerie "coincidences". Maybe she did plan these sinister pieces of the puzzle. Perhaps she planned this to be some sick scavenger hunt of sorts. She told LE that she was following a "script", maybe it was her own disgusting script. We know she loved CSI, which is famous for its intricate and often surprising twists and turns in the story lines. She did google that episode of One Tree Hill where the child is kidnapped by the nanny. Why did she do that? maybe to get "ideas" for her sick puzzle she was building. What I do know is that there are an awful lot of coincidences in this case! one or two, maybe...but all of these that you wonderful sleuthers have pointed out?

* address where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 is Caylee's birthday. "I feel in my gut that she'll be found by her birthday" :eek:

*She dropped her off between (470)9 and (470)1 Hopespring Drive

*She dropped Caylee off with Zenaida Gonzalez. The address on one side of the dump site is listed as belonging to a Zenaida, the adress on the other side is listed as belonging to residents with the last name Gonzalez.

I'm sure there are more to add to this list, but these are the most shocking.

And to answer the question that I know many of you are asking, "WHY, though?", the only thing I can offer is maybe just because she is one sick individual, a "SPITEFUL B*TCH"! I don't think any of us will ever be able to truly understand why she did this because we are not cold blooded killers like she is. We shouldn't underestimate her intelligence, for those who say that Casey just isn't smart enough to hatch a plan like this. We don't know her or the inner workings of her mind. She was intelligent enough to come up with all these intricate lies for her entire life. Yes, it might have been stupid of her to lie like she did/does, but from all accounts, she went to some great lengths for her lies (even coming up with a fake deposit slip after saying she'd been held at gunpoint and robbed), and also convinced people that she held down a job for years. It takes someone with at least a little bit of a brain to pull those types of things off.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that she did plot these little "coincidences" into her fantasy. I do think that she didn't plan for things to go wrong, though-like the car being towed by LE, or Cindy calling 911 and all of that. But as for the act of killing and disposing Caylee, I think that Casey wrote these little sinister (or, poetic in her twisted mind) details into her script. She just didn't expect for things to go "wrong". Thank goodness they did, because LE is going to blow her out of the water at trial. Like another poster said, if we have put all of this together with what little bit of evidence we have seen, imagine what LE has! :eek:

Intermezzo
08-19-2009, 09:54 AM
In the videos posted from Youtube above by Intermezzo, the narrator Marinadedave notes that someone found an address to where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 - Caylee's birthday. All you have to do is type the address in Google Maps and it pops right up right by the remains site. Guess that was what was meant by she will be found by her birthday - she was literally found by her birthday number wise.

Gives me chills. :eek:

Just wanted to clarify that it was essies that posted the videos...:blowkiss:

Intermezzo
08-19-2009, 10:10 AM
*snipped respecfully*

I am not entirely sure what I think about these "coincidences". Are they in fact truly just coincidences or is it more? I keep going back and forth. Probably because I can't wrap my head around WHY someone would do such a thing, let alone a mother to her child. :furious:

At any rate, just wanted to throw this out there for thought. We have all discussed at length the possibility that Casey was living in a fantasy world, plotting and planning the demise of possibly a number of people: George, Cindy, Amy, Caylee...maybe part of those fantasies was all of these eerie "coincidences". Maybe she did plan these sinister pieces of the puzzle. Perhaps she planned this to be some sick scavenger hunt of sorts. She told LE that she was following a "script", maybe it was her own disgusting script. We know she loved CSI, which is famous for its intricate and often surprising twists and turns in the story lines. She did google that episode of One Tree Hill where the child is kidnapped by the nanny. Why did she do that? maybe to get "ideas" for her sick puzzle she was building. What I do know is that there are an awful lot of coincidences in this case! one or two, maybe...but all of these that you wonderful sleuthers have pointed out?

* address where Caylees remains were found - 8905 Suburban Drive. 8/9/05 is Caylee's birthday. "I feel in my gut that she'll be found by her birthday" :eek:
*She dropped her off between (470)9 and (470)1 Hopespring Drive

*She dropped Caylee off with Zenaida Gonzalez. The address on one side of the dump site is listed as belonging to a Zenaida, the adress on the other side is listed as belonging to residents with the last name Gonzalez.

I'm sure there are more to add to this list, but these are the most shocking.

And to answer the question that I know many of you are asking, "WHY, though?", the only thing I can offer is maybe just because she is one sick individual, a "SPITEFUL B*TCH"! I don't think any of us will ever be able to truly understand why she did this because we are not cold blooded killers like she is. We shouldn't underestimate her intelligence, for those who say that Casey just isn't smart enough to hatch a plan like this. We don't know her or the inner workings of her mind. She was intelligent enough to come up with all these intricate lies for her entire life. Yes, it might have been stupid of her to lie like she did/does, but from all accounts, she went to some great lengths for her lies (even coming up with a fake deposit slip after saying she'd been held at gunpoint and robbed), and also convinced people that she held down a job for years. It takes someone with at least a little bit of a brain to pull those types of things off.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that she did plot these little "coincidences" into her fantasy. I do think that she didn't plan for things to go wrong, though-like the car being towed by LE, or Cindy calling 911 and all of that. But as for the act of killing and disposing Caylee, I think that Casey wrote these little sinister (or, poetic in her twisted mind) details into her script. She just didn't expect for things to go "wrong". Thank goodness they did, because LE is going to blow her out of the water at trial. Like another poster said, if we have put all of this together with what little bit of evidence we have seen, imagine what LE has! :eek:

Good post.
BBM
IMO and :twocents: Casey would not have done the research required to obtain the address to that parcel of land...since there wasn't a home or business on that parcel of land there would be no need to have been a numbered address marker on the site, it has been wooded swamp land for many many years.
IMO Caylee was dumped quickly and in a familiar spot then Casey went off to live La Bella Vita with TL and every time she went to her parents home she would be able to see if activity was happening around the remains site...like LE.

sarah7855
08-19-2009, 10:34 AM
Good post.
BBM
IMO and :twocents: Casey would not have done the research required to obtain the address to that parcel of land...since there wasn't a home or business on that parcel of land there would be no need to have been a numbered address marker on the site, it has been wooded swamp land for many many years.
IMO Caylee was dumped quickly and in a familiar spot then Casey went off to live La Bella Vita with TL and every time she went to her parents home she would be able to see if activity was happening around the remains site...like LE.

True, great point!

Also, FWIW, there was a thread with the whole Zenaida/Gonzalez property owners awhile back. Maybe there's some info in that thread that might be useful if we look at it with fresh eyes. I'm going to try and look for it in a sec.

cecybeans
08-19-2009, 10:44 AM
What we see and read as clues given by KC and the A clan are no doubt years of an established means and method of communication between these people.

Remember folks, KC lived and breathed her former life by either text, cell phone, or computer social groups. She apparently never had the opportunity to actually develop any other communication skills; such as formal writing :crazy: texting doesn't count.

Seriously, how did this family communicate with each other prior to cell phone/text and computer technology?

Sounds like yelling at each other was a big part of it. All of their "calmer" verbalization sounds stilted and formal and is full of malaprops and awkward phrasing that many have commented on since we first started hearing their words.

Oakley
08-19-2009, 10:46 AM
I know this is off topic but since the thread went in this direction I have to ask a question that's burning inside me.

For what reason would she be giving all these so-called clues? Wouldn't it have been better for her if the body had never been found? (assuming she did it, of course) Why lead anybody, including her family, to the body? Remorse? Helping with a cover-up? Like, why would she scratch out "about 1" and change it to "between 9A.M and 1P.M. to point to the location of the body when she hadn't even been charged with a crime yet? I'm trying to understand what the reasoning would be, then maybe I can look at this in a different light.

For now, I don't believe that she came up with all these Columbo-type clues for people to decipher but I love the tenacity here!

Good question. It does seem almost unbelievable. But as someone said above (and I tend to agree) there are no coincidences. First of all, Casey is into playing games big time. She fancies herself as very clever. And I believe serial killers (which she may or may not be) DO often leave clues after a murder. Do they want to get caught? Who knows. Maybe a cry for help. IIRC from the beginning Cindy said Casey would be talking in code (I am taking great liberty here in paraphrasing but I do recall this clearly.) We were all looking for clues in the jailhouse conversations. And Cindy was desperately trying to firgure out who is Zanny (Amy? Jesse?) and trying to get Yuri to decipher what the events surrounding the Tampa trip might mean, as she recounted that in great detail. For such a seemingly simple person, Casey sure has turned out to be quite complicated. Again, MOO.

Intermezzo
08-19-2009, 10:55 AM
Sounds like yelling at each other was a big part of it. All of their "calmer" verbalization sounds stilted and formal and is full of malaprops and awkward phrasing that many have commented on since we first started hearing their words.

BBM
That's the first thing that popped into my mind as well Cecy.

doogiesgirl
08-19-2009, 11:20 AM
Good question. It does seem almost unbelievable. But as someone said above (and I tend to agree) there are no coincidences. First of all, Casey is into playing games big time. She fancies herself as very clever. And I believe serial killers (which she may or may not be) DO often leave clues after a murder. Do they want to get caught? Who knows. Maybe a cry for help. IIRC from the beginning Cindy said Casey would be talking in code (I am taking great liberty here in paraphrasing but I do recall this clearly.) We were all looking for clues in the jailhouse conversations. And Cindy was desperately trying to firgure out who is Zanny (Amy? Jesse?) and trying to get Yuri to decipher what the events surrounding the Tampa trip might mean, as she recounted that in great detail. For such a seemingly simple person, Casey sure has turned out to be quite complicated. Again, MOO.


ITA. I think KC threw out these "clues" b/c if she ever got caught, she wants the world to know how brilliant she is. Doesn't matter if someone could have figured out her "clues" (but really who could, another psycho maybe?)--she was banking on no one would, but if by happenstance (maybe KC is smart enough to know happenstance happens alot!) Caylee was found, then everyone will see how brilliant she is (in her backwards way of course). Her ego wouldn't let her NOT give clues. That's my 2 cents anyway. Off to listen to jail visitations again. Thanks to essies for posting that youtube video. JMO

ExpectingUnicorns
08-19-2009, 12:12 PM
Wondered if you all had noticed the two comments left on zenaida's MySpace Video Channel Comments Page. Marinade Dave, IIRC, is the person who made the Driving Miss Casey video. Nothing suspicious inferred; just collecting and sharing interesting facts.

ETA: Tried to insert the link here but couldn't make it work. You'll have to go to : http://www.myspace.com/389838213 and then click on "view my videos."

Balthazar
08-19-2009, 12:28 PM
This is just a fascinating thread.

I have never thought Casey is as dumb or lazy as some have claimed. She did get good grades in High School and even won an Employee of the Month award - she was doing well at her job for Kodak prior to deciding not to work anymore. She had to figure out how to use routing numbers, make fake checks and deposit slips and do all kinds of things that enabled her not to work without it being detected that she wasn't working. Casey had so far "beat the system" which I'm sure emboldened her to move on to even bigger crimes. I believe the clues were for Casey to demonstrate how superior she is and how stupid her parents and LE are.

Caylee is close to home
Caylee will be found by her birthday
Caylee was dropped off with Zenaida Gonzalez between 9 and 1.

And Cindy and George had been living in that house for 19 years and couldn't put the clues together to figure out what she was telling them. Did they seriously not know that 4701 was the Gonzalez house and that a Zaneida lived at 4709? Or is that how Dominic Casey came to search the vacant lot on Suburban? Did Cindy suddenly figure it out?

countzero
08-19-2009, 12:37 PM
*snipped respecfully*


At any rate, just wanted to throw this out there for thought. We have all discussed at length the possibility that Casey was living in a fantasy world, plotting and planning the demise of possibly a number of people: George, Cindy, Amy, Caylee...maybe part of those fantasies was all of these eerie "coincidences". Maybe she did plan these sinister pieces of the puzzle. Perhaps she planned this to be some sick scavenger hunt of sorts. She told LE that she was following a "script", maybe it was her own disgusting script. We know she loved CSI, which is famous for its intricate and often surprising twists and turns in the story lines. She did google that episode of One Tree Hill where the child is kidnapped by the nanny. Why did she do that? maybe to get "ideas" for her sick puzzle she was building. What I do know is that there are an awful lot of coincidences in this case! one or two, maybe...but all of these that you wonderful sleuthers have pointed out?

snipped for space respectfully

And to answer the question that I know many of you are asking, "WHY, though?", the only thing I can offer is maybe just because she is one sick individual, a "SPITEFUL B*TCH"! I don't think any of us will ever be able to truly understand why she did this because we are not cold blooded killers like she is. We shouldn't underestimate her intelligence, for those who say that Casey just isn't smart enough to hatch a plan like this. We don't know her or the inner workings of her mind. She was intelligent enough to come up with all these intricate lies for her entire life. Yes, it might have been stupid of her to lie like she did/does, but from all accounts, she went to some great lengths for her lies (even coming up with a fake deposit slip after saying she'd been held at gunpoint and robbed), and also convinced people that she held down a job for years. It takes someone with at least a little bit of a brain to pull those types of things off.

The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that she did plot these little "coincidences" into her fantasy. I do think that she didn't plan for things to go wrong, though-like the car being towed by LE, or Cindy calling 911 and all of that. But as for the act of killing and disposing Caylee, I think that Casey wrote these little sinister (or, poetic in her twisted mind) details into her script. She just didn't expect for things to go "wrong". Thank goodness they did, because LE is going to blow her out of the water at trial. Like another poster said, if we have put all of this together with what little bit of evidence we have seen, imagine what LE has! :eek:

bbm:

Ya know, I said many months ago after the computer forensics was released that we were never given the complete computer evidence. Only portions that LE wanted to release. I still want to see the complete computer forensic. Everything that KC wrote and/or posted. I am willing to bet that last dollar in my bank account, yep it's still there so far, that KC wrote her fantasies and they may have been part of the Grand Jury's indictment.

Your right on target about KC. She isn't stupid. She only does and did stupid things to cover her actions in murdering Caylee. And I still haven't ruled out in my theories that CA/GA/LA were NOT involved. More evidence needs to be released for me to jump off that fence.

Your last sentence: That was me.

Great post.

essies
08-19-2009, 12:56 PM
This is just a fascinating thread.

I have never thought Casey is as dumb or lazy as some have claimed. She did get good grades in High School and even won an Employee of the Month award - she was doing well at her job for Kodak prior to deciding not to work anymore. She had to figure out how to use routing numbers, make fake checks and deposit slips and do all kinds of things that enabled her not to work without it being detected that she wasn't working. Casey had so far "beat the system" which I'm sure emboldened her to move on to even bigger crimes. I believe the clues were for Casey to demonstrate how superior she is and how stupid her parents and LE are.

Caylee is close to home
Caylee will be found by her birthday
Caylee was dropped off with Zenaida Gonzalez between 9 and 1.

And Cindy and George had been living in that house for 19 years and couldn't put the clues together to figure out what she was telling them. Did they seriously not know that 4701 was the Gonzalez house and that a Zaneida lived at 4709? Or is that how Dominic Casey came to search the vacant lot on Suburban? Did Cindy suddenly figure it out?


Maybe that's one of the reasons KC got soo angry with Cindy during that jail visit-when Cindy kept asking if there was anything here or there and KC said she was going to leave! KC was soo "frustrated" with her parents cause she was putting out clues and they were going over C&G's heads!!:bang:

BAHD
08-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Like I said before there are way too many coincidences in this case for it to be a coincidence. Wether or not KC set all of this up herself or someone else did. It had to have been set up by someone including the Sawgrass incident with the ZG showing up at the time that she did. (It is so funny how you see that name everywhere in this case.) I just want the trial to get here so that we all can have some closure. This case is driving me:crazy:.

Oakley
08-19-2009, 03:52 PM
ITA. I think KC threw out these "clues" b/c if she ever got caught, she wants the world to know how brilliant she is. Doesn't matter if someone could have figured out her "clues" (but really who could, another psycho maybe?)--she was banking on no one would, but if by happenstance (maybe KC is smart enough to know happenstance happens alot!) Caylee was found, then everyone will see how brilliant she is (in her backwards way of course). Her ego wouldn't let her NOT give clues. That's my 2 cents anyway. Off to listen to jail visitations again. Thanks to essies for posting that youtube video. JMO

I am also thinking of the "They haven't even found her clothes yet" smug remark.

Oakley
08-19-2009, 03:57 PM
Maybe that's one of the reasons KC got soo angry with Cindy during that jail visit-when Cindy kept asking if there was anything here or there and KC said she was going to leave! KC was soo "frustrated" with her parents cause she was putting out clues and they were going over C&G's heads!!:bang:

Hmmmmm. What did Casey say: If they would only listen to what I am trying to tell them. (Not sure of exact quote.)

Lil Miss Sleuth
08-19-2009, 09:13 PM
Just wanted to clarify that it was essies that posted the videos...:blowkiss:


Thank you Intermezzo. Sorry about that essies :blushingsmiley:

Oakley
08-19-2009, 09:42 PM
ITA. I think KC threw out these "clues" b/c if she ever got caught, she wants the world to know how brilliant she is. Doesn't matter if someone could have figured out her "clues" (but really who could, another psycho maybe?)--she was banking on no one would, but if by happenstance (maybe KC is smart enough to know happenstance happens alot!) Caylee was found, then everyone will see how brilliant she is (in her backwards way of course). Her ego wouldn't let her NOT give clues. That's my 2 cents anyway. Off to listen to jail visitations again. Thanks to essies for posting that youtube video. JMO

On this video (which someone posted on the Anthony House thread) at approx. 1:44, casey says: "The only way they're gonna find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying. I'm trying to help them." After reading this thread, that quote which I'd heard before, takes on new meaning.

YouTube - Crime Scene Recreation in Second Life

tankgirl
08-19-2009, 09:49 PM
So where does Sawgrass fit into this theory? Was/is there any at the site?
A substantial doc dump would be nice. For now I'm drumming my fingers, waiting for the trial.

ExpectingUnicorns
08-19-2009, 10:31 PM
I agree that there are a suspicious number of coincidences in this case. But the last few that have been the point of this latest discussion remind me so much of the eerie comparisons between Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations. There are so many facts out there that there are bound to be many coincidences. If these aren't random I would still find it hard to give Casey the credit for creating them. Her many other lies don't seem to support her capacity for such detailed thinking or planning. But it wouldn't surprise me if they were a subconscious revelation set in motion, not by Casey, but by the One who brings all evilness from darkness into light.

It seems to me that these coincidences/clues are in a different category than what many consider to be the biggest one ~ the connection between ZFG and Sawgrass. That one seems just too, too far outside chance not to have been somehow contrived by Casey. Do you all see a difference, too?

doogiesgirl
08-19-2009, 11:18 PM
On this video (which someone posted on the Anthony House thread) at approx. 1:44, casey says: "The only way they're gonna find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying. I'm trying to help them." After reading this thread, that quote which I'd heard before, takes on new meaning.

YouTube - Crime Scene Recreation in Second Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTKbsC18tjk)



I was convinced for a long time that when KC was with YM and JA at Universal and YM tells her we know you've lied about everything, and KC says, the one thing I can say for sure is that I do not know where Caylee is (not exact quote). For a long time I wondered if that was true. I wonder if she told herself that since that area on Suburban was a swampy wooded lot - because it had no posted identifiable lot number or house number, to her that makes it possible to say "I do not know where Caylee is". I hope that someday gets resolved b/c to this day still, I still think it's in some "KC way" true. JMO

doogiesgirl
08-19-2009, 11:23 PM
I am also thinking of the "They haven't even found her clothes yet" smug remark.

I wonder if she didn't say "they haven't even found the clothes yet, or my clothes yet". She could've meant the clothes she wore to murder, or the clothes she wore to dump Caylee, or even "mama" baby doll's clothes. It could've been misunderstood by the person who heard it, as Caylee's clothes were with her in the bag. JMO

tankgirl
08-20-2009, 12:12 AM
I was convinced for a long time that when KC was with YM and JA at Universal and YM tells her we know you've lied about everything, and KC says, the one thing I can say for sure is that I do not know where Caylee is (not exact quote). For a long time I wondered if that was true. I wonder if she told herself that since that area on Suburban was a swampy wooded lot - because it had no posted identifiable lot number or house number, to her that makes it possible to say "I do not know where Caylee is". I hope that someday gets resolved b/c to this day still, I still think it's in some "KC way" true. JMO

I have wondered if KC might have meant "where" in the metaphysical sense.

abel
08-20-2009, 12:40 AM
Good question. It does seem almost unbelievable. But as someone said above (and I tend to agree) there are no coincidences. First of all, Casey is into playing games big time. She fancies herself as very clever. And I believe serial killers (which she may or may not be) DO often leave clues after a murder. Do they want to get caught? Who knows. Maybe a cry for help. IIRC from the beginning Cindy said Casey would be talking in code (I am taking great liberty here in paraphrasing but I do recall this clearly.) We were all looking for clues in the jailhouse conversations. And Cindy was desperately trying to firgure out who is Zanny (Amy? Jesse?) and trying to get Yuri to decipher what the events surrounding the Tampa trip might mean, as she recounted that in great detail. For such a seemingly simple person, Casey sure has turned out to be quite complicated. Again, MOO.


Good explanation. :) Yours and DG's posts satisfy in my mind that if she was throwing out clues, it was for some reason that would satiate one of her needs. Not for remorse or to get her daughter a proper burial.

I'm still not 100% convinced though, and I'm not sure that she's really as complicated as she seems. I think she's gotten away with her lifestyle and all her lies because she's lived with a bunch of enablers who lack any real communication skills and walk on eggshells whenever her feathers are ruffled. MHO.

I will admit that there's quite a few coincidences, if that's what they are. If they really are cryptic clues then it's both the dumbest and the smartest thing I've ever seen all rolled into one! Which brings me again to wonder how the "real" ZG from sawgrass had the complete misfortune to fall into this web.

snow_walker
08-20-2009, 12:41 AM
My thoughts.. "I do not know where Caylee is".. true enough, none of us knows where the deceased are..we can say they are 'in Heaven', but we don't know where Heaven is located..

"They haven't even found the clothes yet" ...(or perhaps it was HER clothes yet)..maybe what she really said was something like "They haven't even found her .. they're not even CLOSE yet.. " Sounds like the sort of ungrammatical thing the A's say all the time.

TakeNote
08-20-2009, 01:16 AM
thank you again all you great sleuths!
I have really enjoyed reading such great discussions :)

Just Jayla
08-20-2009, 01:35 AM
bbm:

Ya know, I said many months ago after the computer forensics was released that we were never given the complete computer evidence. Only portions that LE wanted to release. I still want to see the complete computer forensic. Everything that KC wrote and/or posted. I am willing to bet that last dollar in my bank account, yep it's still there so far, that KC wrote her fantasies and they may have been part of the Grand Jury's indictment.

Your right on target about KC. She isn't stupid. She only does and did stupid things to cover her actions in murdering Caylee. And I still haven't ruled out in my theories that CA/GA/LA were NOT involved. More evidence needs to be released for me to jump off that fence.

Your last sentence: That was me.




Great post.




Or perhaps written in the missing pages of her diary....I would like to see PC info as well.

It's Not the Nanny
08-20-2009, 08:39 AM
This may be too out there but what if KC really had been planning on murdering her daughter and pinning it on a Zanny (Zenaida) for awhile?

Maybe she began stalking the real ZG after hearing about her at Cast Iron or coming across her Facebook page?

Maybe she heard or read that Zenaida was going to be at Sawgrass that day and that was the catalyst to make her follow through on her plans (not the big fight). She saw an opportunity and went for it. She had been using the name Zanny for a very long time and needed to locate a real Zanny to complete her plans.

I've spent way too much time trying to figure out how the real ZFG got involved in this tale and think there is a huge possibility that KC found her first, created a myspace, then murdered Caylee and tried to pin the entire thing on her.

It might be the reason First Degree Murder was put back on the table (besides the duct tape). This was premeditated.

I wish we knew exactly what the real ZFG said to people at Cast Iron or on her Myspace or Facebook back in June of 2008. Did she say she had an appt to visit Sawgrass????

There has to be some way that KC knew.

Intermezzo
08-20-2009, 09:17 AM
bbm:

Ya know, I said many months ago after the computer forensics was released that we were never given the complete computer evidence. Only portions that LE wanted to release. I still want to see the complete computer forensic. Everything that KC wrote and/or posted. I am willing to bet that last dollar in my bank account, yep it's still there so far, that KC wrote her fantasies and they may have been part of the Grand Jury's indictment.

Your right on target about KC. She isn't stupid. She only does and did stupid things to cover her actions in murdering Caylee. And I still haven't ruled out in my theories that CA/GA/LA were NOT involved. More evidence needs to be released for me to jump off that fence.

Your last sentence: That was me.
Great post.

BBM
Like creating the Zenaida myspace page on 06/16/08, who is a 24yrd old from Miami, who is a Pisces, with a Dora pic, and last logged on 10/14/08..indictment day :behindbar

Intermezzo
08-20-2009, 09:37 AM
On this video (which someone posted on the Anthony House thread) at approx. 1:44, casey says: "The only way they're gonna find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying. I'm trying to help them." After reading this thread, that quote which I'd heard before, takes on new meaning.

YouTube - Crime Scene Recreation in Second Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTKbsC18tjk)

Yes, I remember her saying that.

IMO Casey has no right to be frustrated :cry:with LE :cop:, she created the frustration.

1) "The only way they're gonna find Caylee" is if she actually came out and spoke the truth instead of playing word games. But then again she shifts the responsibility and blame onto someone else. They have to find Caylee, they have to find my lost Blackjack phone...never "I" need to find Caylee or my phone.

2) "is if they acutally listen to what I'm saying." :cop: LE was listening alright, they listened to enough BS coming from Casey that so many red flags shot up into the atmosphere and was seen by astronaunts at the Space Station.

3) "I'm trying to help them" She was trying to help them alright..she was helping steer LE's investigation into different directions and away from her...

My :twocents: :)

Intermezzo
08-20-2009, 09:43 AM
This may be too out there but what if KC really had been planning on murdering her daughter and pinning it on a Zanny (Zenaida) for awhile?

Maybe she began stalking the real ZG after hearing about her at Cast Iron or coming across her Facebook page?

Maybe she heard or read that Zenaida was going to be at Sawgrass that day and that was the catalyst to make her follow through on her plans (not the big fight). She saw an opportunity and went for it. She had been using the name Zanny for a very long time and needed to locate a real Zanny to complete her plans.

I've spent way too much time trying to figure out how the real ZFG got involved in this tale and think there is a huge possibility that KC found her first, created a myspace, then murdered Caylee and tried to pin the entire thing on her.
It might be the reason First Degree Murder was put back on the table (besides the duct tape). This was premeditated.

I wish we knew exactly what the real ZFG said to people at Cast Iron or on her Myspace or Facebook back in June of 2008. Did she say she had an appt to visit Sawgrass????

There has to be some way that KC knew.

BBM
Inregards to the Zenaida Myspace page..is it in any of the computer docs? And if so..does it show the TIME that the Zenaida Myspace page was created?

Brini
08-20-2009, 10:15 AM
This may be too out there but what if KC really had been planning on murdering her daughter and pinning it on a Zanny (Zenaida) for awhile?

Maybe she began stalking the real ZG after hearing about her at Cast Iron or coming across her Facebook page?

Maybe she heard or read that Zenaida was going to be at Sawgrass that day and that was the catalyst to make her follow through on her plans (not the big fight). She saw an opportunity and went for it. She had been using the name Zanny for a very long time and needed to locate a real Zanny to complete her plans.

I've spent way too much time trying to figure out how the real ZFG got involved in this tale and think there is a huge possibility that KC found her first, created a myspace, then murdered Caylee and tried to pin the entire thing on her.

It might be the reason First Degree Murder was put back on the table (besides the duct tape). This was premeditated.

I wish we knew exactly what the real ZFG said to people at Cast Iron or on her Myspace or Facebook back in June of 2008. Did she say she had an appt to visit Sawgrass????

There has to be some way that KC knew.

Doubt it. KC doesn't plan-- she isn't wired for it.

My guess is that she killed on impulse, and tried to (badly) put together pieces of a story later. Nothing is coherant in any of her Zanny stories. There are holes in her lies through which one could drive a semi-truck.

KC can only plan about 10 minutes at a time.

Could also be that KC was visiting friends and saw an opportunity, when Z showed up. Could be that Z said something at Cast Iron, or asked someone there about Sawgrass.

AZlawyer
08-20-2009, 12:22 PM
BBM
Inregards to the Zenaida Myspace page..is it in any of the computer docs? And if so..does it show the TIME that the Zenaida Myspace page was created?

No. There is nothing in the discovery released so far to confirm that KC created that MySpace page, or even that she ever accessed it. But the coincidences would be pretty crazy if some actual young woman named "Zenaida," with a birthday exactly one month off from Casey's birthday, woke up on June 16, the likely day of Caylee's murder, created a MySpace page for herself with a Dora the Explorer doll on it and NOTHING else (this is a 20-something-year-old woman we're talking about here) then did nothing with the page except look at it until the very day Casey went back to jail, when she suddenly lost all interest and never looked at it again...and never realized that other people thought Casey Anthony had created the page, so she never stepped up and said, "no, that's my page."

LE can certainly find out who created it, and I hope they have already done so.

countzero
08-20-2009, 12:27 PM
No. There is nothing in the discovery released so far to confirm that KC created that MySpace page, or even that she ever accessed it. But the coincidences would be pretty crazy if some actual young woman named "Zenaida," with a birthday exactly one month off from Casey's birthday, woke up on June 16, the likely day of Caylee's murder, created a MySpace page for herself with a Dora the Explorer doll on it and NOTHING else (this is a 20-something-year-old woman we're talking about here) then did nothing with the page except look at it until the very day Casey went back to jail, when she suddenly lost all interest and never looked at it again...and never realized that other people thought Casey Anthony had created the page, so she never stepped up and said, "no, that's my page."

LE can certainly find out who created it, and I hope they have already done so.

Agreed, just another of multiple reasons to see the complete forensic evidence on both the tower and laptop. LE knows ...... I want to know.

Valhall
08-20-2009, 12:34 PM
No. There is nothing in the discovery released so far to confirm that KC created that MySpace page, or even that she ever accessed it. But the coincidences would be pretty crazy if some actual young woman named "Zenaida," with a birthday exactly one month off from Casey's birthday, woke up on June 16, the likely day of Caylee's murder, created a MySpace page for herself with a Dora the Explorer doll on it and NOTHING else (this is a 20-something-year-old woman we're talking about here) then did nothing with the page except look at it until the very day Casey went back to jail, when she suddenly lost all interest and never looked at it again...and never realized that other people thought Casey Anthony had created the page, so she never stepped up and said, "no, that's my page."

LE can certainly find out who created it, and I hope they have already done so.

Thank you...that sums it up nicely. Alls I want is the discovery showing the subpoena'd info from myspace...please!!!

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:28 PM
No. There is nothing in the discovery released so far to confirm that KC created that MySpace page, or even that she ever accessed it. But the coincidences would be pretty crazy if some actual young woman named "Zenaida," with a birthday exactly one month off from Casey's birthday, woke up on June 16, the likely day of Caylee's murder, created a MySpace page for herself with a Dora the Explorer doll on it and NOTHING else (this is a 20-something-year-old woman we're talking about here) then did nothing with the page except look at it until the very day Casey went back to jail, when she suddenly lost all interest and never looked at it again...and never realized that other people thought Casey Anthony had created the page, so she never stepped up and said, "no, that's my page."

LE can certainly find out who created it, and I hope they have already done so.

After all the OTHER computer forensics, it's likely that OCSD and/or the Feebs checked it out. Can't see the Feebs overlooking it.

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:31 PM
Well, after watchinng this report from KB I'm thinking perhaps KC was getting help from dear old mom and dad! Maybe G&C did some research (knowing Caylee was dead) so they could present LE with a plausible explanation of a ZFG connection! I really like the lawyer KB always uses in her reports. He states that he doesn't believe in coincidence! Me neither-too many of them to be coincidence!!
YouTube - Mystery Surrounds Abandoned House Shown On Anthony's P.I. Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un9tbxGHi7E)

I can see them trying to help out creating a Z.

I don;t think they knew until after the first 911 call. But, I suspect that i hit like a bolt of lightening, right after that.

I do NOT agree with NG that G and C were in denial forever and ever, amen.

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:32 PM
Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.

Dunno about KCs license plate. But, I can't imagine trying to back in, if one was out of gas, either. You'd coast in forwards.

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:33 PM
Interesting videos. Thanks! What really struck me was the second video, the Amscott part. I never realized there were bushes bordering the end of the parking lot where the dumster/parking place was.

I know KC had a black cover over the front of the car - but was there a visible front license plate?? where I'm from, I think you're supposed to have one on the front (in addition to the back), but no one ever gets stopped for it. But in KC's case - if your car was really out of gas why would you go through the aggravation of maneuvering the damn car in backwards in the FLA heat - unless you were trying to conceal the back license plate by bushes?

For sure it wouldn't stand out as KC's abandoned car for a while (those 3 days). IMO.

Was the black cover a bra? If so there should be an opening for the plate.

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:35 PM
I honestly don't believe KC is some sort of savant or criminal mastermind, but the "coincidences" in this case are overwhelming!

Chills.....you betcha!

I wouldna thunk it, until just this last.

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:37 PM
Yes it does essies. Now the $64K question is ..... drum roll please ......... how exactly will JB and crew handle it when the evidence that is still being investigated is given to them and the facts are there in black and white and are beyond disputing by LKB and team?

I am willing to bet there is such evidence that is just not able to be labeled as "junk science" by LKB that proves beyond a shadow of ANY doubt that KC IS responsible for Caylee's murder and tossing her like three day old trash into the woods.

What my wish is after JB and crew receives such proof of evidence they admit guilt, even an alford plea and save the tax payers in Florida the expense of a trial. Just move onto the sentencing phase.

Then the SA nails CA/GA/LA as accomplices to Caylee's murder.

I think the court system should put some sort of padded cushioning on the floor around the jury.

For the defense presentation. Floor laughs can HURT!

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:39 PM
I know this is off topic but since the thread went in this direction I have to ask a question that's burning inside me.

For what reason would she be giving all these so-called clues? Wouldn't it have been better for her if the body had never been found? (assuming she did it, of course) Why lead anybody, including her family, to the body? Remorse? Helping with a cover-up? Like, why would she scratch out "about 1" and change it to "between 9A.M and 1P.M. to point to the location of the body when she hadn't even been charged with a crime yet? I'm trying to understand what the reasoning would be, then maybe I can look at this in a different light.

For now, I don't believe that she came up with all these Columbo-type clues for people to decipher but I love the tenacity here!

I don't think much of it has been "code." Either. Because most of what she says doesn't lead to anything.

I DO have to think about that addy/birthday thing, though.

Amil
08-20-2009, 04:42 PM
Was the black cover a bra? If so there should be an opening for the plate.
Florida doesn't use license plates on the front of a car...no such animal here in Florida.

Brini
08-20-2009, 04:45 PM
The only way I can think of all this coincidence without going nuts is that KC just isn't smart enough to have done that - she is certainly not smart enough to even fake the kind of behavior or affect necessary to make anyone even think she is an innocent, grieving mother who had nothing to do with killing her child. She can't think more than ten minutes ahead; her excuses are worse than a four-year-old.

I'd rather think their are "forces in the universe" - whether placed directly or indirectly by God, karma, or a combination of powers that helps anything in nature eventually make good order out of chaos if you give it enough time. It makes me feel better to think that Caylee has "friends in high places" now that are coordinating those forces and leading everyone to realize that there is no other reasonable answer or conclusion than KC as responsible that will bring this case justice. It may sound like magical thinking, but let's face it, nobody can beat the Anthony family on that when it comes to this issue - and it makes me feel better to think that, although Caylee may be in a place now where she has forgiven her family, those of us who have invested our hearts and minds in this and what her death signifies about how we need to protect children in our societies - we have need to see that we can balance the scales of justice here in the material world.

Well, Karma is a biotch, and she has a great, if weird and ironic sense of humor.

And, when she gets fed up and decides to let loose with a backhand across the chops.......:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

wonders
08-20-2009, 05:52 PM
I think the court system should put some sort of padded cushioning on the floor around the jury.

For the defense presentation. Floor laughs can HURT!



Hi Brini

I want to tell you that I love the way your mind works. I wish I had your smarts. I love reading your posts. Thanks. :toastred:

RR0004
08-20-2009, 05:59 PM
Dunno about KCs license plate. But, I can't imagine trying to back in, if one was out of gas, either. You'd coast in forwards.
Unless you have those "couple of guys" to help you push your car in. They've never stepped forward have they?

countzero
08-20-2009, 06:14 PM
Unless you have those "couple of guys" to help you push your car in. They've never stepped forward have they?

Nope. You'd thunk that getting 15 minutes worth of fame on national TV, getting paid by a sleaze rag and bragging rights would have enticed these two guys to come forward. Who knows what gifts KC would have given them (naughty I know :) )

Valhall
08-20-2009, 07:05 PM
Unless you have those "couple of guys" to help you push your car in. They've never stepped forward have they?

This has always perplexed me. You know darn well if you were pushing the back of that car you would have smelled "the smell". And to this day, the good samaritans have not stepped forward.

BondJamesBond
08-20-2009, 08:13 PM
Florida doesn't use license plates on the front of a car...no such animal here in Florida.

Here you go...no front plate.


http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/17980628_320x180.jpg

Mystic
08-20-2009, 08:21 PM
This has always perplexed me. You know darn well if you were pushing the back of that car you would have smelled "the smell". And to this day, the good samaritans have not stepped forward.

Yes I agree.

I've never believed anyone pushed her car in... definately they would have come forward. And to push a (I believe to be) a front wheel drive vehicle rear-end first into a parking spot?? In an empty parking lot where the point is to get it off the road and go for gas or call for a tow. Nope I doubt it. LOL

sarah7855
08-20-2009, 10:08 PM
It was determined that the gas gauge worked fine, right? that would mean no one helped push her car in, she backed in into the spot herself. Where did we hear that someone helped push the 'out of gas' car anyhow?

metalcrystal
08-20-2009, 10:17 PM
This may be too out there but what if KC really had been planning on murdering her daughter and pinning it on a Zanny (Zenaida) for awhile?

Maybe she began stalking the real ZG after hearing about her at Cast Iron or coming across her Facebook page?

Maybe she heard or read that Zenaida was going to be at Sawgrass that day and that was the catalyst to make her follow through on her plans (not the big fight). She saw an opportunity and went for it. She had been using the name Zanny for a very long time and needed to locate a real Zanny to complete her plans.
I've spent way too much time trying to figure out how the real ZFG got involved in this tale and think there is a huge possibility that KC found her first, created a myspace, then murdered Caylee and tried to pin the entire thing on her.

It might be the reason First Degree Murder was put back on the table (besides the duct tape). This was premeditated.

I wish we knew exactly what the real ZFG said to people at Cast Iron or on her Myspace or Facebook back in June of 2008. Did she say she had an appt to visit Sawgrass????

There has to be some way that KC knew.

This I do believe. She had a whole identity for her, and it had been going on a long time. Casey is so sneaky, I am sure she had a way to stalk a real Zenaida.

abel
08-20-2009, 11:52 PM
It was determined that the gas gauge worked fine, right? that would mean no one helped push her car in, she backed in into the spot herself. Where did we hear that someone helped push the 'out of gas' car anyhow?

IIRC the gas guage was tested at some point and determined to work fine but GA poured the gas that he brought to the tow yard before he tried to start the car, so I guess we'll never know if it was really out of gas.

robotdog
08-21-2009, 12:07 AM
she only thinks about 10 seconds ahead of her lies

i mean really dragging the 2 detectives to a job that doesnt exist to an office that doesnt exist for her and then never thinking anyone would think this is wildly stupid

she is on a PERPETUAL ROLLER COASTER LIE MACHINE
:Bicicleta::bananalama:

YellowSubmarine
08-21-2009, 12:13 AM
It was determined that the gas gauge worked fine, right? that would mean no one helped push her car in, she backed in into the spot herself. Where did we hear that someone helped push the 'out of gas' car anyhow?


Well, we initially heard that story from kc, so who knows if it's true, but didn't we see somewhere recently that a witness had seen the car pushing incident? I could be wrong. :confused:

BondJamesBond
08-21-2009, 12:17 AM
First - forgive the OT to this thread...just wanted to address a couple of points...


It was determined that the gas gauge worked fine, right? that would mean no one helped push her car in, she backed in into the spot herself. *snipped*

You'll forgive me if I'm not current on this if newer info has been released re: position of the car. FWIW, ClockWatcher sourced :thumb: that the Pontiac was pulled (i.e. "nose in") into the parking space @ Amscot per towguy Gary here.



IIRC the gas guage was tested at some point and determined to work fine but GA poured the gas that he brought to the tow yard before he tried to start the car, so I guess we'll never know if it was really out of gas.

I understand it'll likely never be conclusive...and for a long time I was invested in the Casey-intentionally-ditched-the-Pontiac-to-avoid-driving-Tony-to-the-airport theory. But if you're interested in the probability that the Pontiac really did run outta gas you can consider the case presented here.

sarah7855
08-21-2009, 08:45 AM
IIRC the gas guage was tested at some point and determined to work fine but GA poured the gas that he brought to the tow yard before he tried to start the car, so I guess we'll never know if it was really out of gas.


Well, we initially heard that story from kc, so who knows if it's true, but didn't we see somewhere recently that a witness had seen the car pushing incident? I could be wrong. :confused:


First - forgive the OT to this thread...just wanted to address a couple of points...

*snipped*

You'll forgive me if I'm not current on this if newer info has been released re: position of the car. FWIW, ClockWatcher sourced :thumb: that the Pontiac was pulled (i.e. "nose in") into the parking space @ Amscot per towguy Gary here (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3718545&postcount=514).




I understand it'll likely never be conclusive...and for a long time I was invested in the Casey-intentionally-ditched-the-Pontiac-to-avoid-driving-Tony-to-the-airport theory. But if you're interested in the probability that the Pontiac really did run outta gas you can consider the case presented here (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3556390&postcount=220).

Gotcha! thanks everyone! :blowkiss:

Hexxgurl311
08-24-2009, 07:04 PM
Hey everyone! This is my first post. I was looking at the OC inmate database for KC and there's a couple charges for Fraud. Use Of Personal Ident. Information. Does anyone think this is related to KC being Zenaida?

essies
08-24-2009, 07:18 PM
Hey everyone! This is my first post. I was looking at the OC inmate database for KC and there's a couple charges for Fraud. Use Of Personal Ident. Information. Does anyone think this is related to KC being Zenaida?

Probably pertaining to the check fraud. And by the way!!
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/KimCandy2/Welcome/ALMOSTHEAVENDAWTTG-vi.gif

Just Jayla
08-24-2009, 11:20 PM
This is my favorite thread in this forum by far-If LE has any indication that KC had a fake ZG ID back on 05/24/08, then many of the other issues we've combed through matter a little less. I have not seen any movement in the ID case on iClerk, always in the back of my mind.
I don't think AD was truthful about her end of things/what she knew on that day, she was a little odd in her depo on that question.

The World According
08-27-2009, 11:40 PM
This I do believe. She had a whole identity for her, and it had been going on a long time. Casey is so sneaky, I am sure she had a way to stalk a real Zenaida.

Apparently Lee knows of other friends/family she has done bogus things regarding money to, he said she is a master at this, so yes, I do not put it past her.

metalcrystal
08-28-2009, 09:37 AM
Apparently Lee knows of other friends/family she has done bogus things regarding money to, he said she is a master at this, so yes, I do not put it past her.

I think we have only scratched the surface as far as what we have seen of her stealing, mainly because she was a minor and Cindy has been cleaning up her messes all her life, keeping LE out of it and trying to fix it heself.

wildhoneypie
08-30-2009, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by one_hooah_wife View Post

On MySpace someone can change your password a couple of ways ...
1.If you know the original password you can simply log in and change it ... an email would be sent to the email address on file, telling you only that your password had been changed ... NOT what it was changed to. (why would the kidnappers know Casey’s original password.)
OR
2.You can click “forgotten password” at login and MySpace will send a link to your email account for you to use in order to complete a change of password ... for someone to surreptitiously use this method to change your password they would have to also have access to your email account. Let’s say that Caylee’s kidnappers possessed the skills to access KC’s email and used this method … they would still have to contact KC and let her know what the new password was, in order for her to access the account without her resetting it again the next time she logged on.
ALSO … and of SOOOO much importance … because of cyber-bullying MySpace states that it logs the IP address of anyone accessing the account at anytime … so it will show a the IP address allowing LE to identify their approximate location at the time the account was accessed.
Anyone with L33T Haxor skills wanna weigh in … please?

************************************************** **************************************************

Today, 07:48 AM
Valhall (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=35391)Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 20

Exactly, and not only will they be able to determine the IP of the log-ins of caseyomarie's myspace, but of the premeditated "zenaida" myspace set up on June 16th, just prior to KC "kicking off" the whole "Zanny stole my baby" story.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=389838213 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213)

And they will be able to tell if she accessed this zenaida myspace account from JB's office during the countless days she spent her full day at his office. And they will be able to tell that it is not merely a coincidence that 1.) the zenaida myspace was created on the same day Caylee was last seen, and 2. the zenaida myspace was last accessed on the last free day - when KC went to jail for good.

They will be able to see what IP coincidentally chose a "Dora the Explorer" dancing doll as their myspace picture when at the same time Caylee had a Dora the Explorer backpack (and most likely a Dora pony, as referenced as a "toy horse" found with the remains).

They will be able to see what IP...so coincidentally...chose a birthday on the zenaida myspace that is February 19th - where KC's is March 19th.

Age 23 on 02/18/09:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...pace021809.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Valhall/zenaidamyspace021809.jpg)

Age 24 on 02/19/09:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...pace021909.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Valhall/zenaidamyspace021909.jpg)

Apparently this myspace "zenaida" doesn't drive, because the Florida DMV shows no one with the first name zenaida having a birthday of 02/19/85 in their database.

And hopefully they will be able to obtain what, if any content, was posted on that account and subsequently removed prior to 10/14....the last date of entry. And they will be able to tell what IP...so coincidentally...chose "Miami" as the location when we have seen KC keep centering back on Miami as a possible place for "Zanny".

They will most likely be able to tell us exactly what time on 06/16/08 that account was set up. And since the forensics from KC's laptop show NO user activity for the entire day of the 16th, and the forensics for the Anthony desktop show only activity for a brief time in the morning and then again just prior to GA going to work, and no activity after he left work....if the IP matches the Anthony IP, that time of creation will NECESSARILY preface the disappearance of Caylee. Pointing to premeditation of the whole scenario and a "plan" as KC walked Caylee out of that house.

They, of course, already know that this myspace wouldn't show up on the computer forensic search for "zenaida" because there is no "zenaida" in the URL for this myspace. But they also now know what to perform a forensic search on to see if the Anthony desktop accessed this myspace.

Then, maybe, they will be able to tell us why the 22 year old Zenaida Gonzalez who got two traffic tickets in Orlando by an OCSO officer in May 2008 - one for not yielding at an intersection, the other for not have a valid driver's license was able to completely satisfy the ticket for not yielding, but was unable to produce a valid license at the June 11th arraignment for not possessing the license. And maybe they will explain why the payments on the fine for not having a license were kept up until KC went back to jail for good and then this "Zenaida Gonzalez" fell off the face of the earth. Maybe they will explain why, on February 19th, 2009, "Zenaida" didn't show up for her last chance to keep her license and they subsequently issued a court-ordered suspension of that license. Maybe they will explain why in the Florida database this Zenaida Gonzalez has never been able to have her social security number verified in the system...was it because this "Zenaida" is an illegal? or is it because she is somebody else who already has a valid license that has the social security number verified? (like KC). Is it a coincidence that this ZG has an address to a home that is owned by two people whose permanent address is in New York and appears to be a winter home for them, while KC insinuated a possible New York connection?

Maybe LE will also be able to explain why on 09/11/08 a previous traffic citation KC received on 08/04/03 for not possessing a valid driver's license, and which was marked as satisfied and dismissed on 08/12/03 when she did produce her driver's license, was changed from a "dismissed" status to "prosecutorial". Did they find that on 8/12/03 she had two driver's licenses, one with the name "Zenaida Gonzalez"? Possessing two driver's licenses in Florida is a felony offense.

Did KC run with people who had two driver's licenses? Yes...Lauren Coppel was stopped on 10/14/04 for DUI and subsequently also received a citation for "possessing more than one valid Florida driver's license"...she had to lawyer up to get out of that one.

It appears KC is ZG...it appears she created the myspace "zenaida" page before she left the Anthony residence on the 16th. It appears she planned something that required a "zenaida" and with the "timer55" backing out to June 15th, it appears she started this plan on that evening, probably right after CA almost choked the crap out of her. The LE can explain what that "zenaida-requiring" plan was and why we have the odd coincidence of Caylee turning up missing and then dead and it tying to a kidnapping "Zenaida"...they can explain all these coincidences to us some day. They'll probably also explain to us the bizarre coincidence that will follow this post when coincident to a JB visit to KC in the jail, the "zenaida" myspace will mysteriously, after months of no access, be accessed. Because I fear that, to be quite honest...I think JB has some one watching this site and that's why I haven't said anything about the myspace page here before now. But maybe just outright stating that we know what's up JB!!! will make him think twice about that one. But, of course, he can just pass username and password to good ol' Lee on the backside...Lee the formatter, Lee the expunger....Lee the "blue screen of death".

KC isn't lying...the last person she saw Caylee with was Zenaida Gonzalez.

Everything with the IP location makes tons of sense to me. My husband owns an IT company and deals with this daily. I hope she sizzzzzzzzzzzles.......... If she did this... I guess when the trial starts, we will see.

cecybeans
08-30-2009, 03:46 PM
Hey everyone! This is my first post. I was looking at the OC inmate database for KC and there's a couple charges for Fraud. Use Of Personal Ident. Information. Does anyone think this is related to KC being Zenaida?

Good point. Well, if she used any ZG ID to cash Amy's checks instead of her own (do we know how the one to "cash" was signed and ID'd at BoA - the same day part of the ticket was paid?) - that would be yet another HUGE reason to go for the check fraud case first. It might burst the entire bubble on the Zanny b.s. by providing a "picture" of ZG22 cashing a check - which could bode even worse for her in the long run than simply having a prior record during her capital case trial.

lin
08-30-2009, 03:49 PM
Everything with the IP location makes tons of sense to me. My husband owns an IT company and deals with this daily. I hope she sizzzzzzzzzzzles.......... If she did this... I guess when the trial starts, we will see.


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll230/lin5000/welcome/DA_STA11111.gif

Glad to have you with us. Great first post!

lin
08-30-2009, 03:51 PM
Good point. Well, if she used any ZG ID to cash Amy's checks instead of her own (do we know how the one to "cash" was signed and ID'd at BoA - the same day part of the ticket was paid?) - that would be yet another HUGE reason to go for the check fraud case first. It might burst the entire bubble on the Zanny b.s. by providing a "picture" of ZG22 cashing a check - which could bode even worse for her in the long run than simply having a prior record during her capital case trial.

And may be the real reason the defense is so desperate to avoid this trial. Good thinking!

ETA: I am totally stealing your post and hiding my ill gotten gains in the check fraud thread. I think the folks in that thread will be just as interested.

wildhoneypie
08-30-2009, 04:04 PM
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll230/lin5000/welcome/DA_STA11111.gif

Glad to have you with us. Great first post!


Thanks! That really means a lot! Great that you are here.

MD MOMMY
08-30-2009, 11:34 PM
Good point. Well, if she used any ZG ID to cash Amy's checks instead of her own (do we know how the one to "cash" was signed and ID'd at BoA - the same day part of the ticket was paid?) - that would be yet another HUGE reason to go for the check fraud case first. It might burst the entire bubble on the Zanny b.s. by providing a "picture" of ZG22 cashing a check - which could bode even worse for her in the long run than simply having a prior record during her capital case trial.

I'm almost positive we've seen that check and it's written out to Casey. This has been a long drawn out case that I have followed forever, so I could be wrong. The image of the check sticks out in my memory though. I'll look around to be 100%.

ETA..http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2008/1008/17656059.pdf
page 8 and then an image of the check page 32

scratchthatitch
08-31-2009, 12:37 AM
If KC was the creator of the Zenaida Myspace, what was she looking for when she was visiting her page?:waitasec:

I've seen advertisements for a Myspace function that allows you to find out who has been looking for you or visiting your page. Does anyone have any experience utilizing this on myspace? I wonder if it shows the actual name of the person who's looking or other info like a myspace address or IP address. Anybody KWIM? :U There:

If she did have something that was showing her the names or addresses of those looking at her page, would there be any sign or notification that that information was being made available to the myspace profile's owner?

Could she have been periodically checking in to see if any LE was looking at the page? KC might have enjoyed the "cat and mouse game" with LE
enough to be checking on her trail of crumbs from time to time. KC seemed to revel in the fact that LE hadn't found Caylee's clothes yet so it wouldn't surprise me if her confidence was bolstered as more time went by before the myspace zenaida was discovered.

sarah7855
08-31-2009, 09:56 AM
If KC was the creator of the Zenaida Myspace, what was she looking for when she was visiting her page?:waitasec:

I've seen advertisements for a Myspace function that allows you to find out who has been looking for you or visiting your page. Does anyone have any experience utilizing this on myspace? I wonder if it shows the actual name of the person who's looking or other info like a myspace address or IP address. Anybody KWIM? :U There:

If she did have something that was showing her the names or addresses of those looking at her page, would there be any sign or notification that that information was being made available to the myspace profile's owner?

Could she have been periodically checking in to see if any LE was looking at the page? KC might have enjoyed the "cat and mouse game" with LE
enough to be checking on her trail of crumbs from time to time. KC seemed to revel in the fact that LE hadn't found Caylee's clothes yet so it wouldn't surprise me if her confidence was bolstered as more time went by before the myspace zenaida was discovered.

I've used something called Trakzor in the past on my myspace, and while it links up to your page, you have to go to the Trakzor site itself to see the list of hits to your page. The list was not anywhere complete at all, and it only showed correct information on those that had Trakzor too. So if a visitor didn't have it installed on their page as well, it would either not show them on the list at all, or would show a blank pic and generic (often wrong) info. Those that did have trakzor installed would show up with their pic and correct location, however. I uninstalled it after awhile of not using it. I'm sure there are more current tracking programs out there now, but it is important to note that usually a visitor to the page would see an icon indicating some type of program installed. Normally those programs don't allow use of them without some type of icon or widget visible for advertisement purposes. I don't remember reading on here that there was anything of the sort on the page, it was set up very in a very basic fashion. No background, no icons, no widgets, only one pic (Dora) etc. Also, IIRC from reading this thread as it has grown, I think that it was said that the page wasn't accessed that often, so if that is true, it would indicate that it was set up purely to bolster KC's "ZFG" theory. I really hope that LE is all over this, and as Cecybeans pointed out, that is one reason that they are so eager to try the check fraud case first. Maybe someone legal can help out here: if in fact LE did have this page investigated, and had evidence of KC premeditating ZFG and the whole nine yards as detailed in this awesome thread, why wouldn't they come out and say this in court during these "stall the fraud case" motions? surely the judge would then allow the check fraud case to be heard first, correct?

sarah7855
08-31-2009, 10:01 AM
Hey everyone! This is my first post. I was looking at the OC inmate database for KC and there's a couple charges for Fraud. Use Of Personal Ident. Information. Does anyone think this is related to KC being Zenaida?

These charges would be from the checks she wrote at Target/Winn Dixie/etc. and signed as Amy. She had Amy's check and signed as Amy, but produced some other ID. So that's where these charges come from, HTH! and WELCOME TO WS!!! :blowkiss:

sakirkland
08-31-2009, 03:35 PM
For everyone who has posted on this thread a big salute. This is one of my favorite threads!

Intermezzo
08-31-2009, 04:04 PM
Well, we initially heard that story from kc, so who knows if it's true, but didn't we see somewhere recently that a witness had seen the car pushing incident? I could be wrong. :confused:

BBM
YellowSub you're not wrong. There was a letter in the docs written by someone who said he saw Casey and Caylee being dropped of at a Hispanics ladies apartment to get baby sat...LE investigated and the guy was WRONG.
In this letter he also wrote about seeing 2 guys help push a car but IIRC the timeline did not match up to Casey's.

I know I read that letter and posted on a thread where it was being discussed but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the thread...but I'll go and try to find it.

UPDATE

Okay I've found it and here is the link, it's a citizen tip to the Orlando Police Dept

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/7401-7484tips.pdf

Discussed in 2009.07.30 Doc. Dump - Citizen Tips Report thread

2009.07.30 Doc. Dump - Citizen Tips Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Ssejors
08-31-2009, 06:50 PM
Ok, don't know if this has been covered yet, and if I'm repeating something that's already been discussed, please delete. I was rewatching George's interview with the FBI at: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6a_1227338439

At the 37 minute mark, he tells the agent that he suspected that Casey hadn't had a job since 2006. Then, he says he found an updated resume that she had created. It reflected her job at Universal from 2004-2006. From 2006 to present she listed as her job description Nanny..


I'm reading through this thread and for page after page now I have waited to post anything cause I am still SOOOo far behind in the thread. I'm truly fascinated here. What I want to know, is if this woman wasn't working since 2006, how the heck did she pay her booze tab and her cell bills and for all the clothes she seemed to own. In all her pics the girl is wearing nice decent clothes, and booze isnt cheap. If you read over her cell phone history she is on the phone either talking or texting nearly 18 + hours a day. Thats not cheap by any means. How was she supporting herself other than check fraud.


ok back to lurking till I get caught up.

essies
08-31-2009, 08:46 PM
I'm reading through this thread and for page after page now I have waited to post anything cause I am still SOOOo far behind in the thread. I'm truly fascinated here. What I want to know, is if this woman wasn't working since 2006, how the heck did she pay her booze tab and her cell bills and for all the clothes she seemed to own. In all her pics the girl is wearing nice decent clothes, and booze isnt cheap. If you read over her cell phone history she is on the phone either talking or texting nearly 18 + hours a day. Thats not cheap by any means. How was she supporting herself other than check fraud.


ok back to lurking till I get caught up.

I believe George says KC was actually stealing from Cindy's wallet (not sure which interview that was) and stealing from Caylee's piggybank. I believe George also says KC took money from a savings account set up for Caylee that he put money into. Add to that the $4000 deposit slip she forged from George selling a car and using Cindy's cc's! There HAS to be more - I still don't think we know everything and hopefully we'll see more at trial!

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr127/merryassmonika/hello.gif Ssejors and
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu85/come2ok/welcome.gif

OneLostGrl
08-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Good question. It does seem almost unbelievable. But as someone said above (and I tend to agree) there are no coincidences. First of all, Casey is into playing games big time. She fancies herself as very clever. And I believe serial killers (which she may or may not be) DO often leave clues after a murder. Do they want to get caught? Who knows. Maybe a cry for help. IIRC from the beginning Cindy said Casey would be talking in code (I am taking great liberty here in paraphrasing but I do recall this clearly.) We were all looking for clues in the jailhouse conversations. And Cindy was desperately trying to firgure out who is Zanny (Amy? Jesse?) and trying to get Yuri to decipher what the events surrounding the Tampa trip might mean, as she recounted that in great detail. For such a seemingly simple person, Casey sure has turned out to be quite complicated. Again, MOO.


bold is mine-

To her mother, sure.

OneLostGrl
08-31-2009, 10:26 PM
I was convinced for a long time that when KC was with YM and JA at Universal and YM tells her we know you've lied about everything, and KC says, the one thing I can say for sure is that I do not know where Caylee is (not exact quote). For a long time I wondered if that was true. I wonder if she told herself that since that area on Suburban was a swampy wooded lot - because it had no posted identifiable lot number or house number, to her that makes it possible to say "I do not know where Caylee is". I hope that someday gets resolved b/c to this day still, I still think it's in some "KC way" true. JMO


Me too. Throughout this case that is one of the only times I have believed she was being truthful.

Oakley
08-31-2009, 10:48 PM
bold is mine-

To her mother, sure.

Not sure what ya mean by that, OLG.

essies
08-31-2009, 11:24 PM
I was convinced for a long time that when KC was with YM and JA at Universal and YM tells her we know you've lied about everything, and KC says, the one thing I can say for sure is that I do not know where Caylee is (not exact quote). For a long time I wondered if that was true. I wonder if she told herself that since that area on Suburban was a swampy wooded lot - because it had no posted identifiable lot number or house number, to her that makes it possible to say "I do not know where Caylee is". I hope that someday gets resolved b/c to this day still, I still think it's in some "KC way" true. JMO

IMO It's just KC playing word games like Clinton did with what the definition of "is" means! In a metaphysical speaking frame of reference saying - one thing I can say for sure is that I do not know where Caylee is (not exact quote) - is a KC truth! I and I'm sure most of us believe Caylee is in heaven and has been there since she drew her last breath! KC probably believes this also-therefore, Caylee is not laying in pieces in a vacant lot!!! No one knows where heaven is-so KC saying "I don't know where Caylee is" - is KC's way of telling a lie cloaked within a truth!! It's a -What's the word Cindy?? Oh yeah-that's right-it's a "mistruth"!!
http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv265/mercyjohnsoon/ahhhhh.gif OMG - THESE PEOPLE GIVE ME A SPLITTING HEADACHE!!

Nore
09-01-2009, 12:05 AM
This is my favorite thread in this forum by far-If LE has any indication that KC had a fake ZG ID back on 05/24/08, then many of the other issues we've combed through matter a little less. I have not seen any movement in the ID case on iClerk, always in the back of my mind.
I don't think AD was truthful about her end of things/what she knew on that day, she was a little odd in her depo on that question.

-----------------------
This jogs a memory for me. I could swear to God I read I believe an interview with AD. with her quoting a talk with KC..A mentioned something about kc getting a ticket (A was with her) and k had a drivers license in ZG's name.K fluffed it off when A sounded shocked.This had to be in a depo by A or a IM between k and A. I have hunted but I cant find it.I am more or less new to the computer and not familiar with finding things.I'm going to have to save pages as I 've had this happen before.I remember thinking how could she have two legal licenses. I hope for once I am right.:crazy:

chefmom
09-01-2009, 12:12 AM
-----------------------
This jogs a memory for me. I could swear to God I read I believe an interview with AD. with her quoting a talk with KC..A mentioned something about kc getting a ticket (A was with her) and k had a drivers license in ZG's name.K fluffed it off when A sounded shocked.This had to be in a depo by A or a IM between k and A. I have hunted but I cant find it.I am more or less new to the computer and not familiar with finding things.I'm going to have to save pages as I 've had this happen before.I remember thinking how could she have two legal licenses. I hope for once I am right.:crazy:

Now, that would be something to see! I will try to help hunt it down. That would just make my day if we could see that in writing!

cecybeans
09-01-2009, 01:54 AM
IMO It's just KC playing word games like Clinton did with what the definition of "is" means! In a metaphysical speaking frame of reference saying - one thing I can say for sure is that I do not know where Caylee is (not exact quote) - is a KC truth! I and I'm sure most of us believe Caylee is in heaven and has been there since she drew her last breath! KC probably believes this also-therefore, Caylee is not laying in pieces in a vacant lot!!! No one knows where heaven is-so KC saying "I don't know where Caylee is" - is KC's way of telling a lie cloaked within a truth!! It's a -What's the word Cindy?? Oh yeah-that's right-it's a "mistruth"!!
http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv265/mercyjohnsoon/ahhhhh.gif OMG - THESE PEOPLE GIVE ME A SPLITTING HEADACHE!!

She learned at the master's feet on that one. And may have surpassed her with her self-righteous magical thinking thing. Although the way GA was parsing Linda DB's questions at the last motion hearing, complete with smug smirk, makes me think that more than the females in the Anthony house knew how to play that game.

My dad used to call the reverse of that - following instructions literally and to the letter in business or personal life - "malicious obedience". I have a feeling a lot of that kind of stuff went on in that house as well. No wonder they all talk funny...

OneLostGrl
09-01-2009, 03:40 AM
Not sure what ya mean by that, OLG.

Casey being complicated. I meant Cindy obviously finds her quite complicated-she had no idea what went on in Casey life (the real one).

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:30 AM
I believe I've established the latest possible time for the creation of the zenaida myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

Note that the myspace assigned userid number is 389838213. These numbers are assigned sequentially. First point is this establishes without a doubt that the myspace was created on June 16, 2008. So we can set aside that the creation date may be hacked in some manner. The assigned userid number can't be, and that number is deep in the middle of June 16 sign-ups.

So in order to try to determine the earliest possible time I started marching forward in time for myspace members who signed up on June 16 after this page was made (i.e. they have higher userid numbers). And then I looked at whether there was a blog entry on the 16th or a comment by a friend on the 16th. Here is what I have (I won't link the myspace pages because it might be against board rules, I'll just give the userid and let you verify for yourself):

406362084 - signed up on 16th and made a blog entry at 1:31 pm. Member is in Nevada. This would be 4:31 pm in Orlando.

389838234 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 2:16 pm. Member is in Texas. This would be 3:16 pm in Orlando.

389838264 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 4:10 pm. Member is in Poland. This would be 10:10 am in Orlando.

The zenaida myspace was created prior to 10:10 am June 16th. If this is KC (which I can't imagine how it couldn't be), this is premeditation.

JWG
09-01-2009, 09:33 AM
I believe I've established the latest possible time for the creation of the zenaida myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

Note that the myspace assigned userid number is 389838213. These numbers are assigned sequentially. First point is this establishes without a doubt that the myspace was created on June 16, 2008. So we can set aside that the creation date may be hacked in some manner. The assigned userid number can't be, and that number is deep in the middle of June 16 sign-ups.

So in order to try to determine the earliest possible time I started marching forward in time for myspace members who signed up on June 16 after this page was made (i.e. they have higher userid numbers). And then I looked at whether there was a blog entry on the 16th or a comment by a friend on the 16th. Here is what I have (I won't link the myspace pages because it might be against board rules, I'll just give the userid and let you verify for yourself):

406362084 - signed up on 16th and made a blog entry at 1:31 pm. Member is in Nevada. This would be 4:31 pm in Orlando.

389838234 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 2:16 pm. Member is in Texas. This would be 3:16 pm in Orlando.

389838264 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 4:10 pm. Member is in Poland. This would be 10:10 am in Orlando.

The zenaida myspace was created prior to 10:10 am June 16th. If this is KC (which I can't imagine how it couldn't be), this is premeditation.

Val,

AWESOME piece of work, as always ! :clap:

Have you looked for someone who signed up earlier, just to verify?

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:35 AM
I did, in fact, wind backwards and then I realized I was wasting time because we don't know the lag between when the page is made and when a blog or friend makes a post. For that reason, we have to assume the earliest time for the creation of the zenaida myspace is 12:01 a.m. the 16th. We can't be sure any other way.

sarah7855
09-01-2009, 09:56 AM
Valhall-
it was asked yesterday in another thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85588&page=19

if LE had been contacted about these findings. Here is Friday's post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - State files motion to proceed with check fraud charge

Just checking, did you contact LE? or know if someone else did? I just don't want to take a chance that this incredible work goes missed.

:blowkiss:

and ps-YOU ROCK!!!!!! :bowdown:

JWG
09-01-2009, 09:57 AM
I did, in fact, wind backwards and then I realized I was wasting time because we don't know the lag between when the page is made and when a blog or friend makes a post. For that reason, we have to assume the earliest time for the creation of the zenaida myspace is 12:01 a.m. the 16th. We can't be sure any other way.

I know one can choose their own userid...is it possible to choose a number such as this one?

WolfmarsGirl
09-01-2009, 10:05 AM
I did, in fact, wind backwards and then I realized I was wasting time because we don't know the lag between when the page is made and when a blog or friend makes a post. For that reason, we have to assume the earliest time for the creation of the zenaida myspace is 12:01 a.m. the 16th. We can't be sure any other way.

Maybe you mentioned this, but the last log in was 10/14/08. When was KC locked up for good? Wasn't it around this time?

Sorry for my ignorance. I just can't remember all the details.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:10 AM
10/14/08 was the last time she was free. They indicted her that day and she went to jail for good later in the day.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:12 AM
I know one can choose their own userid...is it possible to choose a number such as this one?

No, this page doesn't have it's own URL.

JWG, there is one potential hiccup here. I'm trying to establish the timetags for the comments. Are they:

1. Based on the time zone of the member's page they are posted to?
2. Based on the time zone of the member who posted them?
3. Based on my time zone (in other words you'd see a different time if you were in a different time zone)?
4. Based on myspace server time?

We need to test this and find out. As far as the blog entry made on the member from Poland's page - the member who posted it is also in Poland. So there is no discrepancy between the two people's time zones. However, if it is based on myspace server time or adjusts according to who is looking at it...that changes the Orlando time.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:16 AM
Valhall-


Just checking, did you contact LE? or know if someone else did? I just don't want to take a chance that this incredible work goes missed.


*respectfully snipped*

Yes, LE was contacted on February 19th when the age rolled over and I knew the birthdate entered on the account.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:16 AM
No, this page doesn't have it's own URL.

JWG, there is one potential hiccup here. I'm trying to establish the timetags for the comments. Are they:

1. Based on the time zone of the member's page they are posted to?
2. Based on the time zone of the member who posted them?
3. Based on my time zone (in other words you'd see a different time if you were in a different time zone)?
4. Based on myspace server time?

We need to test this and find out. As far as the blog entry made on the member from Poland's page - the member who posted it is also in Poland. So there is no discrepancy between the two people's time zones. However, if it is based on myspace server time or adjusts according to who is looking at it...that changes the Orlando time.

I wondered that as well. But that aside, looking at the page immediately after we see a last login of 6/16/2008 and the page immediately before has a last login of 6/18/2008. Both pages are set to private, but what their last login tells us is that the "zenaida" myspace signup date is genuine.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
JWG,

I'm in the CT timezone. If you are in a different timezone would you please go to this page, go to the comments and go to the first one made on June 16, 2008 and tell me what time you see?

http://comment.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewComments&friendID=389838264

cecybeans
09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
I did, in fact, wind backwards and then I realized I was wasting time because we don't know the lag between when the page is made and when a blog or friend makes a post. For that reason, we have to assume the earliest time for the creation of the zenaida myspace is 12:01 a.m. the 16th. We can't be sure any other way.

Valhall, as always, scintillating sleuthiness!

If the myspace page was created sometime around midnight (which is also the "night of the 15th") - have we definitely reached a conclusion that Caylee died on the day of the 16th? Is it still possible she may have already just died a teeny bit earlier that night in her bedroom? KC could have closed the door to her room and run out and created the page on the computer immediately to cover up if that is the case. If not, you have definitely established premeditated intent, because otherwise, why make a myspace page suddenly for an alternate identity you've had for awhile?

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:24 AM
JWG,

I'm in the CT timezone. If you are in a different timezone would you please go to this page, go to the comments and go to the first one made on June 16, 2008 and tell me what time you see?

http://comment.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewComments&friendID=389838264

I am in the same time zone as Orlando, and I see 5:10 PM. Orlando is GMT -5 and Poland is GMT +1, so six hours difference, meaning the comment was made at 11:10 AM Orlando time.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:25 AM
I could drive to Florida and kiss you right now!

WOOHOO! busted.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:27 AM
I could drive to Florida and kiss you right now!

WOOHOO! busted.

Aw Val, thanks. :blushing: Just make sure you drive to Connecticut. :rolleyes:

cecybeans
09-01-2009, 10:30 AM
Mamabear just told me she saw on HLN that they busted an identity theft ring in FL and was amused that the woman they arrested looked a lot like KC.

That got me to thinking - if KC had done her fake ID correctly, it could have been associated with an actual SS#. I can't remember if, when I had a FL license, part of the SS# was encoded on the license (last four digits or something). We have always looked for ZG's that are alive. What if she took the SS# of a ZG (or ZFG) that was deceased? I wonder if LE has looked up deceased ZG's.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:33 AM
I am in the same time zone as Orlando, and I see 5:10 PM. Orlando is GMT -5 and Poland is GMT +1, so six hours difference, meaning the comment was made at 11:10 AM Orlando time.

So Val, if you see 4:10 PM and I see 5:10 PM, then we don't need to adjust the time for Orlando.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:38 AM
Val, the 406362084 member is not the one in Nevada. Do you have a corrected member number?

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:39 AM
So Val, if you see 4:10 PM and I see 5:10 PM, then we don't need to adjust the time for Orlando.

Oh crap! That's not good. Okay, I'll kiss you anyways.

So that means that comment was at 5:10.

Okay, I have to pull out my next weapon then (I held out on you):

Signed up 6/16/08 and entered first blog at 1:31 pm (lists Henderson, NV)

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=389838319&blogId=406362084

His blog entry SHOULD show up as 2:31 pm to you. Let me know.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Val, the 406362084 member is not the one in Nevada. Do you have a corrected member number?

That should be the Nevada myspace.

NOTE:
OH! I see what I did...sorry about that. That was the blog entry number, not the userid number.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:48 AM
Oh crap! That's not good. Okay, I'll kiss you anyways.

So that means that comment was at 5:10.

Okay, I have to pull out my next weapon then (I held out on you):

Signed up 6/16/08 and entered first blog at 1:31 pm (lists Henderson, NV)

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=389838319&blogId=406362084

His blog entry SHOULD show up as 2:31 pm to you. Let me know.

406362084 is the blog ID. 389838319 is the friend ID - which makes more sense. And yes, I see 2:31 PM.

sarah7855
09-01-2009, 10:48 AM
Oh crap! That's not good. Okay, I'll kiss you anyways.

So that means that comment was at 5:10.

Okay, I have to pull out my next weapon then (I held out on you):

Signed up 6/16/08 and entered first blog at 1:31 pm (lists Henderson, NV)

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=389838319&blogId=406362084

His blog entry SHOULD show up as 2:31 pm to you. Let me know.

I am in Orlando, and it says 2:31 :)

ETA: sorry to answer for JWG, I'm just a little excited here :)

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:50 AM
THANK YOU!

Okay, the zenaida myspace was created prior to 2:31 pm Orlando time.

KC left the Anthony home (according to George) at 12:50...so this COULD have been made after she left the house and returned.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:53 AM
To add to this - there was high activity on the desktop from 1 pm to 3 pm.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:55 AM
THANK YOU!

Okay, the zenaida myspace was created prior to 2:31 pm Orlando time.

KC left the Anthony home (according to George) at 12:50...so this COULD have been made after she left the house and returned.

Won't get into it here because I and others have gone on ad-nauseum on other threads, but I think George's recollection of accounts was from another day, not June 16. Nothing against George on this because it was 4 weeks later and he never knew in advance that it was the last time he would see Caylee, but the computer and cell evidence points to KC being there all day until 4:15 PM.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 11:02 AM
Won't get into it here because I and others have gone on ad-nauseum on other threads, but I think George's recollection of accounts was from another day, not June 16. Nothing against George on this because it was 4 weeks later and he never knew in advance that it was the last time he would see Caylee, but the computer and cell evidence points to KC being there all day until 4:15 PM.

I have to say, up until this point, I have taken the stance that the only "evidence" we had of KC's whereabouts on the 16th (at least until she left the house) was George's statement. And I have been reluctant to dismiss it without reason. But now, along with the other things you guys have shown (i.e. cell phone pings, etc.) I have to concede - she was there later than George states she was.

AZlawyer
09-01-2009, 11:48 AM
OK, so if the Zenaida myspace page was created before 2:31 pm Orlando time on June 16, and IF Casey created it, and IF she set up notifications to her cell phone as she did on her other account, then she should have received an automatic "welcome" message from "Tom" the founder of Myspace immediately after creating the page. She did receive a Myspace message notification (coded "1697724" on her cell records) at 3:23 pm...and BJB has pointed out that all the Myspace notifications in her cell phone record appear 3 hours after the actual Myspace activity took place...so that would mean that the message actually arrived at 12:23 pm on June 16. So if we have no other known Myspace messages received by Casey at this time, this is a potential candidate for a "Welcome to Myspace from Tom" message in connection with the new Zenaida page.

I throw this out for informational purposes only--I'm not sure why Casey would have set up notifications on this account at all.

kew17
09-01-2009, 12:37 PM
When the SA subpoened the records from MySpace, wouldn't that have showed them the IP address that created this account?

AZlawyer
09-01-2009, 12:56 PM
When the SA subpoened the records from MySpace, wouldn't that have showed them the IP address that created this account?

We haven't seen anything to indicate that the SA subpoenaed the records from Myspace for this account.

We did see a subpoena from JB to Myspace relating to Casey's account.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Casey_Anthony_Subpoena.pdf

sarah7855
09-01-2009, 01:32 PM
OK, so if the Zenaida myspace page was created before 2:31 pm Orlando time on June 16, and IF Casey created it, and IF she set up notifications to her cell phone as she did on her other account, then she should have received an automatic "welcome" message from "Tom" the founder of Myspace immediately after creating the page. She did receive a Myspace message notification (coded "1697724" on her cell records) at 3:23 pm...and BJB has pointed out that all the Myspace notifications in her cell phone record appear 3 hours after the actual Myspace activity took place...so that would mean that the message actually arrived at 12:23 pm on June 16. So if we have no other known Myspace messages received by Casey at this time, this is a potential candidate for a "Welcome to Myspace from Tom" message in connection with the new Zenaida page.

I throw this out for informational purposes only--I'm not sure why Casey would have set up notifications on this account at all.

Maybe she did plan on "doing stuff" with this page...adding friends, commenting, blogging, etc., to make it look like there really was a Zenaida out there. If so, it makes sense that she would have set up the notifications: that way she would've been notified when "Zani" got a comment or whatever.
Anyone know if you are automatically prompted now to set those up when you set up a new page? It's been years since I set up my MS page and that site has come a long way.

Really, if you think about it, she most likely did create this page with the intent of doing stuff with it, but just never got around to it due to living la bella vita :bang:

I just can't grasp how LE has overlooked this, if indeed that is the case. We haven't seen anything indicating they have investigated it at all.

Intermezzo
09-01-2009, 01:39 PM
I believe I've established the latest possible time for the creation of the zenaida myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

Note that the myspace assigned userid number is 389838213. These numbers are assigned sequentially. First point is this establishes without a doubt that the myspace was created on June 16, 2008. So we can set aside that the creation date may be hacked in some manner. The assigned userid number can't be, and that number is deep in the middle of June 16 sign-ups.

So in order to try to determine the earliest possible time I started marching forward in time for myspace members who signed up on June 16 after this page was made (i.e. they have higher userid numbers). And then I looked at whether there was a blog entry on the 16th or a comment by a friend on the 16th. Here is what I have (I won't link the myspace pages because it might be against board rules, I'll just give the userid and let you verify for yourself):

406362084 - signed up on 16th and made a blog entry at 1:31 pm. Member is in Nevada. This would be 4:31 pm in Orlando.

389838234 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 2:16 pm. Member is in Texas. This would be 3:16 pm in Orlando.

389838264 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 4:10 pm. Member is in Poland. This would be 10:10 am in Orlando.

The zenaida myspace was created prior to 10:10 am June 16th. If this is KC (which I can't imagine how it couldn't be), this is premeditation.

Wow, Valhall!!! :clap:
Awesome sleuthing!!!
I posted recently if we knew the time when this Myspace was created ...Thank you for all your hard work.

sarah7855
09-01-2009, 01:46 PM
We haven't seen anything to indicate that the SA subpoenaed the records from Myspace for this account.

We did see a subpoena from JB to Myspace relating to Casey's account.

Have we seen any subpoenas from LE to myspace at all? For Casey's myspace or anything else? If so, what were they basically for?

I can't keep this darn case straight anymore.

:truce:

WolfmarsGirl
09-01-2009, 03:10 PM
10/14/08 was the last time she was free. They indicted her that day and she went to jail for good later in the day.


Ok, so the date coincidence could really imply that this was KC.

And it implies that no one (like Lee) could have been 'in on' the ZFG creation.

april_showers
09-01-2009, 05:58 PM
Maybe she did plan on "doing stuff" with this page...adding friends, commenting, blogging, etc., to make it look like there really was a Zenaida out there. If so, it makes sense that she would have set up the notifications: that way she would've been notified when "Zani" got a comment or whatever.
Anyone know if you are automatically prompted now to set those up when you set up a new page? It's been years since I set up my MS page and that site has come a long way.

Really, if you think about it, she most likely did create this page with the intent of doing stuff with it, but just never got around to it due to living la bella vita :bang:

I just can't grasp how LE has overlooked this, if indeed that is the case. We haven't seen anything indicating they have investigated it at all.

Wholeheartedly agree. I think she at least planned on commenting on her own page to present the image (to Cindy at least) that Caylee was fine and just “at the beach” or “on vacation” or whatever. The sad thing is, I think this may have actually worked – for awhile at least – to keep Cindy somewhat off her back.

Myspace alerts on her phone would be the perfect way to monitor this page if she intended to use it. Her private (and I’m willing to bet $, password protected) phone was really the only safe way. She couldn’t be on “Zani’s” myspace on the laptop and risk having Tony look over her shoulder, or accidentally leave herself logged in, etc.

I do think Casey may have gotten too caught up in her new life, but I also believe she may have realized that her lies had gotten too complex to actually follow through with using this page. If she had told just one person that Caylee was with her parents, a comment from Zani about the great time they were having at the beach would look very suspicious. And this was the one lie Casey could not have people poking holes through…

-

Valhall
09-01-2009, 06:53 PM
OK, so if the Zenaida myspace page was created before 2:31 pm Orlando time on June 16, and IF Casey created it, and IF she set up notifications to her cell phone as she did on her other account, then she should have received an automatic "welcome" message from "Tom" the founder of Myspace immediately after creating the page. She did receive a Myspace message notification (coded "1697724" on her cell records) at 3:23 pm...and BJB has pointed out that all the Myspace notifications in her cell phone record appear 3 hours after the actual Myspace activity took place...so that would mean that the message actually arrived at 12:23 pm on June 16. So if we have no other known Myspace messages received by Casey at this time, this is a potential candidate for a "Welcome to Myspace from Tom" message in connection with the new Zenaida page.

I throw this out for informational purposes only--I'm not sure why Casey would have set up notifications on this account at all.

This is very useful information, and thank you for sharing this. The two periods of importance here (IMO) are the activity on the desktop from 10am to noon and from 1 to 3 pm.

AZlawyer
09-01-2009, 07:12 PM
Interesting information about law enforcement subpoenas to MySpace:
http://www.26thda.org/fckfiles/file/Myspace.com_PoliceHandout.doc.pdf

This is a document issued by MySpace in 2005 explaining what information they can provide to police. Assuming it's still current, it appears that IP information would have been retained only for 90 days after the last login (i.e., until January 12, 2009 in the case of the Probably Fake Zenaida Page).

Imbackon
09-01-2009, 07:27 PM
Sorry if this has been brought up, but did anyone try to log in to the myspace page using some of the id's/pw that have been attributed to KC?
I'm not suggesting someone does, because perhaps this could harm the itegrity of the page as evidence.

AZlawyer
09-01-2009, 07:31 PM
Sorry if this has been brought up, but did anyone try to log in to the myspace page using some of the id's/pw that have been attributed to KC?
I'm not suggesting someone does, because perhaps this could harm the itegrity of the page as evidence.

I hope not. The "last login" date would change, for starters, and currently it is very usefully stuck on the last date KC was "free."

Imbackon
09-01-2009, 07:36 PM
That is what I was worried about and brought it up.
I am sure I am not the only one who thought about that very thing (regarding integrity). Going to take a screen shot now since many many people may have read this info, and decide to try.

cecybeans
09-01-2009, 07:37 PM
Well, if the computer activity was from 10 to noon and again from 1 to 3, then where the heck was GA?

If he indeed saw them leave when his "cooking show" was on, then KC had to have told him she was dropping off Caylee at the babysitter and coming right back, because she was right back on the computer at one, which is ten minutes after he says he saw them leaving. If he was working the 3-11 shift, he should have been out of there by 2 or 2:30 to get to work, which means he would have known KC was there alone. If he left at 2:30 he would have HAD to have seen Caylee some time that day - there is no way he would buy a story from KC that Caylee was "sleeping in".

If KC was the one on the computer between 1 and 3, creating the page (unless she had done it between 10 and 12 and just told GA that she had already dropped Caylee off), then she had to either have already killed Caylee and hidden her in the trunk or did it right after she stopped using the computer, because she was gone from the house by 4:15, correct?

Whatever the scenario, the computer usage alone blows GA's story out of the water. If he saw them leave near one, as he said, then he would also have been there when KC got back to use the computer between one and three. If he did not, then both KC and Caylee were there when he left for work. Unless he and KC were both using the computer during the 1 to 3 time (GA first, then KC after he left). It still makes his story fishy (as if it weren't enough already).

Imbackon
09-01-2009, 07:55 PM
Interesting information about law enforcement subpoenas to MySpace:
http://www.26thda.org/fckfiles/file/Myspace.com_PoliceHandout.doc.pdf

This is a document issued by MySpace in 2005 explaining what information they can provide to police. Assuming it's still current, it appears that IP information would have been retained only for 90 days after the last login (i.e., until January 12, 2009 in the case of the Probably Fake Zenaida Page).

Hopefully if the police do act on this page, they can get the password, login email address and if they are any of KC's known or proven info, that in itself would be great evidence.

ETA, this needs to be done now.

Preserving an account
A letter of preservation can be faxed to MySpace.com. Please note the following regarding
preserved accounts:
-They are still publicly viewable
-The user will not be able to log into the account
-We can only preserve a currently active (non-deleted) account
-Information in the Sent Mail/Trash can is still subject to automatic deletion

The Eunice Burns
09-01-2009, 08:00 PM
Val, you are amazing! Thank You!


:rose:
:star:
:gold_crown:
:woohoo:
:blowkiss:
:clap:

archenemy toenail
09-01-2009, 08:01 PM
I saved this Zenaida myspace as a favorite and it shows the profile last updated 6/16/2008 at 11:31:00 AM. Don't know if that's Eastern time or what.

Also, IIRC from setting up my own page many moons ago, until your e-mail address is verified, you are unable to add friends or do much more than the basic set up of your page, and because deleting the account would require a validation e-mail, you can't delete your page without verifying your e-mail address. I was thinking that maybe KC set this page up using a bogus e-mail and her log in on 10/14 was an attempt to delete it.

The Eunice Burns
09-01-2009, 08:03 PM
Well, if the computer activity was from 10 to noon and again from 1 to 3, then where the heck was GA?

If he indeed saw them leave when his "cooking show" was on, then KC had to have told him she was dropping off Caylee at the babysitter and coming right back, because she was right back on the computer at one, which is ten minutes after he says he saw them leaving. If he was working the 3-11 shift, he should have been out of there by 2 or 2:30 to get to work, which means he would have known KC was there alone. If he left at 2:30 he would have HAD to have seen Caylee some time that day - there is no way he would buy a story from KC that Caylee was "sleeping in".

If KC was the one on the computer between 1 and 3, creating the page (unless she had done it between 10 and 12 and just told GA that she had already dropped Caylee off), then she had to either have already killed Caylee and hidden her in the trunk or did it right after she stopped using the computer, because she was gone from the house by 4:15, correct?

Whatever the scenario, the computer usage alone blows GA's story out of the water. If he saw them leave near one, as he said, then he would also have been there when KC got back to use the computer between one and three. If he did not, then both KC and Caylee were there when he left for work. Unless he and KC were both using the computer during the 1 to 3 time (GA first, then KC after he left). It still makes his story fishy (as if it weren't enough already).

Yes, yes, yes. I for one, have never bought his story at face value. The detail he got into was a little too precise, IMO. Conversely, he can't remember if KC every contributed regularly to the household w/ her "earnings". And that's just one of the "I don't recalls" we've heard, there are plenty more. I think he highly embroidered, shall we say, his version of the 16th. MOO

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 08:04 PM
Well, if the computer activity was from 10 to noon and again from 1 to 3, then where the heck was GA?

If he indeed saw them leave when his "cooking show" was on, then KC had to have told him she was dropping off Caylee at the babysitter and coming right back, because she was right back on the computer at one, which is ten minutes after he says he saw them leaving. If he was working the 3-11 shift, he should have been out of there by 2 or 2:30 to get to work, which means he would have known KC was there alone. If he left at 2:30 he would have HAD to have seen Caylee some time that day - there is no way he would buy a story from KC that Caylee was "sleeping in".

If KC was the one on the computer between 1 and 3, creating the page (unless she had done it between 10 and 12 and just told GA that she had already dropped Caylee off), then she had to either have already killed Caylee and hidden her in the trunk or did it right after she stopped using the computer, because she was gone from the house by 4:15, correct?

Whatever the scenario, the computer usage alone blows GA's story out of the water. If he saw them leave near one, as he said, then he would also have been there when KC got back to use the computer between one and three. If he did not, then both KC and Caylee were there when he left for work. Unless he and KC were both using the computer during the 1 to 3 time (GA first, then KC after he left). It still makes his story fishy (as if it weren't enough already).

...echoing JWG's post above...IMHO, there's as much - if not more - to support that George dint see them ~12:50PM on 6/16...that he was recalling/transferring a very, very similar set of circumstances from another day onto 6/16. IIRC, AZLawyer, JWG, et. al. have suggested the Friday, 6/14 events might fit as well as any other to George's account of 6/16 (don't hold them to my foggy memory if I'm wrong...that'd be all me :bang:)

My personal fav is George's phone call back to the house @ Hopespring from his cell phone ~3:03PM for 17 seconds (based on other phone records my guess is this is how long the Anthony's answering machine message lasts). Whence Casey failed to pick up the house phone George called her cell and she dropped the call w/ Jesse to take the call from dear ole' Dad. Ya think George would've called the house @ a time when he knew Cindy wasn't there AND he'd seen Casey leave too??? What for? Talk to the cat/dog? :rolleyes:

ETA: IIRC, AZ suggested George's call coulda just been a :doh: moment for George. Entirely possible.

Naaaaaah :shakehead: IMHO, :twocents: George's saw-them-leave-while-my-news-err-food-show-was-on story happened on 'nother day...not 6/16. Not personally faulting George for transcribing the events...and not wishing to drive this thread too far into the ditch....oh look a culvert! :)

JWG
09-01-2009, 08:16 PM
I saved this Zenaida myspace as a favorite and it shows the profile last updated 6/16/2008 at 11:31:00 AM. Don't know if that's Eastern time or what.

Also, IIRC from setting up my own page many moons ago, until your e-mail address is verified, you are unable to add friends or do much more than the basic set up of your page, and because deleting the account would require a validation e-mail, you can't delete your page without verifying your e-mail address. I was thinking that maybe KC set this page up using a bogus e-mail and her log in on 10/14 was an attempt to delete it.

Well, well ... how about that. I never thought to try adding as a favorite, nor did it ever occur to me that in doing so I would be able to see when the profile was last updated.

Kudos!! Some absolutely wonderful sleuthing going on today!

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 08:25 PM
I saved this Zenaida myspace as a favorite and it shows the profile last updated 6/16/2008 at 11:31:00 AM. Don't know if that's Eastern time or what.
*snipped*

:clap: :clap: :thumb: :clap: :clap:

I'm drag a$$'n here, and believe I saw some discussion of the timestamps being discussed above...if for nothing other than stirring the proverbial pot...

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697720
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

Lemme know if it adds confusion and I'll delete. Waaaaaaay back there IIRC, either JWG or Georgia PI grabbed the code#'s that map to each MS transaction type.

JWG
09-01-2009, 08:33 PM
Here is what you get after adding "zenaida" as a favorite:

4868

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 08:36 PM
OK, so if the Zenaida myspace page was created before 2:31 pm Orlando time on June 16, and IF Casey created it, and IF she set up notifications to her cell phone as she did on her other account, then she should have received an automatic "welcome" message from "Tom" the founder of Myspace immediately after creating the page. She did receive a Myspace message notification (coded "1697724" on her cell records) at 3:23 pm...and BJB has pointed out that all the Myspace notifications in her cell phone record appear 3 hours after the actual Myspace activity took place...so that would mean that the message actually arrived at 12:23 pm on June 16. So if we have no other known Myspace messages received by Casey at this time, this is a potential candidate for a "Welcome to Myspace from Tom" message in connection with the new Zenaida page.

I throw this out for informational purposes only--I'm not sure why Casey would have set up notifications on this account at all.

Hmmmmm...:waitasec: Just thinkin' out loud on the first-outta-the-box-Tom friendship.

In a room full of 100 people there are 99 that know more than me 'bout MS, but, I'd ask the other 99 if the sequence goes somethin' like...

1) MS activity involving initial account set-up, followed by
2) email verification acknowledgement validating the account
3) Tom befriending, followed by
d) Ability to refine MS settings that would include things like RSS feeds to one's cell phone

Bringing this up to suggest IF it the above sequence were true...the Tom-friending transaction might've happened before the RSS set-up, hence, no RSS notification for that one IYKWIM.

OK...time for somebody that knows whatthehellthey'retalkin' 'bout to step in here. :)

JWG
09-01-2009, 08:47 PM
Taking Bond's text listing:

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697720
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

Factoring in the source of the text alerts (last six digits listed):

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments 697721
- Profile Comments 697722
- Image Comments 697723
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites 697725

And presto:

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Friend Requests
6/16/08 MON 11:31:00 AM "zenaida" makes her last profile update
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Image Comments

Methinks the activity is on KC's myspace, not the "zenaida", but it likely reflects activity between KC and the "zenaida"?

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 08:55 PM
Taking Bond's text listing:

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697720
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

Factoring in the source of the text alerts (last six digits listed):

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments 697721
- Profile Comments 697722
- Image Comments 697723
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites 697725

And presto:

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Friend Requests
6/16/08 MON 11:31:00 AM "zenaida" makes her last profile update
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Image Comments

Methinks the activity is on KC's myspace, not the "zenaida", but it likely reflects activity between KC and the "zenaida"?


Hmmmmmm...:waitasec: Soooo, if I follow...you're suggesting

11:30AMish Eastern Casey sets up Zenaida's MS, then, as-Zenaida she makes profile comments on her as-Casey MS resulting in the 11:43AM & perhaps subsequent RSS's to Casey's cell phone?

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 09:06 PM
Here is what you get after adding "zenaida" as a friend:

4868

OK...can't resist the opportunity to comment on the "Motive" field having been left blank :doh:

OneLostGrl
09-01-2009, 09:09 PM
I believe I've established the latest possible time for the creation of the zenaida myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

Note that the myspace assigned userid number is 389838213. These numbers are assigned sequentially. First point is this establishes without a doubt that the myspace was created on June 16, 2008. So we can set aside that the creation date may be hacked in some manner. The assigned userid number can't be, and that number is deep in the middle of June 16 sign-ups.

So in order to try to determine the earliest possible time I started marching forward in time for myspace members who signed up on June 16 after this page was made (i.e. they have higher userid numbers). And then I looked at whether there was a blog entry on the 16th or a comment by a friend on the 16th. Here is what I have (I won't link the myspace pages because it might be against board rules, I'll just give the userid and let you verify for yourself):

406362084 - signed up on 16th and made a blog entry at 1:31 pm. Member is in Nevada. This would be 4:31 pm in Orlando.

389838234 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 2:16 pm. Member is in Texas. This would be 3:16 pm in Orlando.

389838264 - signed up on 16th and had a friend comment at 4:10 pm. Member is in Poland. This would be 10:10 am in Orlando.

The zenaida myspace was created prior to 10:10 am June 16th. If this is KC (which I can't imagine how it couldn't be), this is premeditation.

I am impressed with the hard work you have put into this. thank you!

Intermezzo
09-01-2009, 09:12 PM
OK...can't resist the opportunity to comment on the "Motive" field having been left blank :doh:

:( Oh My.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:13 PM
I saved this Zenaida myspace as a favorite and it shows the profile last updated 6/16/2008 at 11:31:00 AM. Don't know if that's Eastern time or what.

Also, IIRC from setting up my own page many moons ago, until your e-mail address is verified, you are unable to add friends or do much more than the basic set up of your page, and because deleting the account would require a validation e-mail, you can't delete your page without verifying your e-mail address. I was thinking that maybe KC set this page up using a bogus e-mail and her log in on 10/14 was an attempt to delete it.

Son-of-a-*****! I've had the damned thing saved as a favorite for practically 9 months and I never thought to look at this!

Where do you live? I'm going to come kiss you too!

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:16 PM
Here is what you get after adding "zenaida" as a friend:

4868

OH! Now, I understand. That's why I was wondering why I couldn't see the time. He means saving as a favorite in myspace. I had not ever even known I could save pages as favorites in myspace!

woohoo!

BUSTED!!!!!

AZlawyer
09-01-2009, 09:17 PM
Taking Bond's text listing:

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697720
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697724
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697723

Factoring in the source of the text alerts (last six digits listed):

- Friend Requests 697720
- Blog Comments 697721
- Profile Comments 697722
- Image Comments 697723
- New Messages 697724
- Event Invites 697725

And presto:

6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Friend Requests
6/16/08 MON 11:31:00 AM "zenaida" makes her last profile update
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Image Comments

Methinks the activity is on KC's myspace, not the "zenaida", but it likely reflects activity between KC and the "zenaida"?


But remember BJB figured out that all these times are 3 hours "late."

Unless something changed since then--who can keep track? Bond? Are we still working with time stamps that are 3 hours off?

If the "last update" time is Orlando time, the page was completed 11:30 am. If KC created this page (and I sure hope LE can prove it), this is great evidence of premeditation. Now personally, I think George had 6/16 mixed up with 6/13, 6/9 or some other day, but as the prosecutor, armed with this Myspace info, I would do everything I could to convince the jury George was RIGHT about the morning of 6/16...because that would mean KC created this page an hour and a half before Caylee was last seen alive and happy.

OneLostGrl
09-01-2009, 09:23 PM
Hmmmmm...:waitasec: Just thinkin' out loud on the first-outta-the-box-Tom friendship.

In a room full of 100 people there are 99 that know more than me 'bout MS, but, I'd ask the other 99 if the sequence goes somethin' like...

1) MS activity involving initial account set-up, followed by
2) email verification acknowledgement validating the account
3) Tom befriending, followed by
d) Ability to refine MS settings that would include things like RSS feeds to one's cell phone

Bringing this up to suggest IF it the above sequence were true...the Tom-friending transaction might've happened before the RSS set-up, hence, no RSS notification for that one IYKWIM.

OK...time for somebody that knows whatthehellthey'retalkin' 'bout to step in here. :)

You are correct. You can't do anything until you verify.. verifying adds Tom as your friend and allows you to set up how you are notified of new comments/messages.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:23 PM
Guys...with this uber-bombshell toenail just dropped on us...and on the assumption this is KC (which logic flies by laughing in the face of the thought it not being)...

this is premeditation. EVEN IF GEORGE'S STORY IS CORRECT!

There's no getting around a prefacing act to set up a kidnapper before she left that house - whether she left at 12:50 or 5 pm.

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:28 PM
Question:

It is showing up 11:31 am for all of us...regardless of our time zones.

So...what's myspace server timezone?

JWG
09-01-2009, 09:37 PM
Question:

It is showing up 11:31 am for all of us...regardless of our time zones.

So...what's myspace server timezone?

Quite likely this is the time zone for the person who made the update, otherwise it is myspace server time which I believe is PST. In that case the last update would be 2:31 PM EST.

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 09:39 PM
But remember BJB figured out that all these times are 3 hours "late."

Unless something changed since then--who can keep track? Bond? Are we still working with time stamps that are 3 hours off?

If the "last update" time is Orlando time, the page was completed 11:30 am. If KC created this page (and I sure hope LE can prove it), this is great evidence of premeditation. Now personally, I think George had 6/16 mixed up with 6/13, 6/9 or some other day, but as the prosecutor, armed with this Myspace info, I would do everything I could to convince the jury George was RIGHT about the morning of 6/16...because that would mean KC created this page an hour and a half before Caylee was last seen alive and happy.

Thanks, AZ. Lemme 'splain...for anyone following along @ home :) 'the Rosetta Stone' so-to-speak

We have Casey's cell records of 7/4. Released docs.
We have a screenshot of Casey's MS messages that include 7/4. Released docs. pg 2679

Casey's cell records show 2 MySpace Alerts on 7/4:

7/4/08 FRI 3:06:21 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722
7/4/08 FRI 8:26:51 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722

Casey's MS messages show 2 MySpace Messages on 7/4:

7/4/08 12:06PM From Mr. & Mrs. Graff, "ya for now"
7/4/08 5:27PM From Marky Mark, "happy 4th of july hope your having fun i am knowing that i can live longer lol" (saving irony of THAT remark for later)
BTW...screenshots are from an OCSO computer, hence, timezone = Eastern.

So....what you get is a 3 hr difference when you compare the timestamp MS page attributes the comment vs. when Casey's cell log reflects it. That suggests that a cell alert attributed to a MySpace set up @ 11:31AM Eastern would start showing up AFTER 2:31PM Eastern if you are looking @ Casey's cell log for tracks (e.g. activity on Casey's MS resulting from Casey-as-Zenaida). Confused? I hope so :crazy:

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:52 PM
Quite likely this is the time zone for the person who made the update, otherwise it is myspace server time which I believe is PST. In that case the last update would be 2:31 PM EST.

We need to answer this.

I'm going to send you a PM with a link to my myspace that I have just updated. Please add me as your favorite and then come back here and post what time my profile was last updated.

BondJamesBond
09-01-2009, 09:52 PM
*snipped*


[/COLOR]6/16/08 MON 12:20:53 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 12:40:22 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Friend Requests
6/16/08 MON 11:31:00 AM "zenaida" makes her last profile update
6/16/08 MON 11:43:12 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:23:30 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert New Messages
6/16/08 MON 3:35:05 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Profile Comments
6/16/08 MON 3:39:59 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert Image Comments

Methinks the activity is on KC's myspace, not the "zenaida", but it likely reflects activity between KC and the "zenaida"?


B&ColorBM. So...if (big IF) the timeshift holds true for 6/16 the bold & red items would be potential Casey-as-Zenaida-on-MS candidates to consider with the real-time Casey-as-Zenaida activity occurring:



12:23PM
12:35PM
12:39PM


Now...we can go look @ Casey's cell activity to see if anything conflicts w/ her during this timeframe and we find:

...a 61-minute-long period of NO ACTIVITY on her cell. :eek: (note...if we keep w/ the 3hr time difference it would just be coincidental that the 11:52 bookend that begins this period is a MS alert that we'd attribute to 8:52AM activity WHICH BTW would have been 6 minutes AFTER Casey's first-text-o-the-day to Tony @ 8:46AM. Plausible methinks. :waitasec:

Bookend cell log activity to consider:

6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722 Casey Anthony
12:23PM
12:35PM
12:39PM
6/16/08 MON 12:53:31 PM OUTGOING TEXT Casey Anthony Anthony Lazzaro

Last thing to check would be the Encase report to see if it supports activity during these times. This is where the house of cards usually comes'a-tumblin' down for me...

Intermezzo
09-01-2009, 09:55 PM
Question:

It is showing up 11:31 am for all of us...regardless of our time zones.

So...what's myspace server timezone?

It does for me in Florida.

I just found this website about MSpace Date, Time and Timezone Formats
maybe it will help. :)

http://wiki.developer.myspace.com/index.php?title=Date%2C_Time_and_Timezone_Formats

MySpace uses a default value of timeZone=-8. Thus, the currently default time zone is United States Pacific Standard Time. This zone definition is based on the Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) standard (aka Zulu time), where the GMT zone = 0.


UPDATE

I was searching and on some websites where people ask about the MS timezone here are 2 replies

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4107572&posted=1#post4107572

"It uses your time zone. When you sign up the ask you to chose your time zone and they go by that".
"You can also change the timezone whenever you like in Account Settings. Hope this helps."

Valhall
09-01-2009, 09:56 PM
*snipped*


B&ColorBM. So...if (big IF) the timeshift holds true for 6/16 the bold & blue items would be potential Casey-as-Zenaida-on-MS candidates to consider with the real-time Casey-as-Zenaida activity occurring:

12:23PM
12:35PM
12:39PM

Now...we can go look @ Casey's cell activity to see if anything conflicts w/ her during this timeframe and we find:

...a 61-minute-long period of NO ACTIVITY on her cell. :eek: (note...if we keep w/ the 3hr time difference it would just be coincidental that the 11:52 bookend that begins this period is a MS alert that we'd attribute to 8:52AM activity WHICH BTW would have been 6 minutes AFTER Casey's first-text-o-the-day to Tony @ 8:46AM. Plausible methinks. :waitasec:

6/16/08 MON 11:52:51 AM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Alert 1697722 Casey Anthony
6/16/08 MON 12:53:31 PM OUTGOING TEXT Casey Anthony Anthony Lazzaro

Last thing to check would be the Encase report to see if it supports activity during these times. This is where the house of cards usually comes'a-tumblin' down for me...

Encase activity times on desktop for 06/16 are:

7-9 am
10-noon
1-3 pm

Intermezzo
09-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Not sure if this helps, I may be waaaayyy off.


http://wiki.developer.myspace.com/index.php?title=Date%2C_Time_and_Timezone_Formats

MySpace API Call with dateTime Format - Example

In this example, the call specifies dateTime and timeZone formats that follow the ISO 8601 spec and sets the timezone to 7. In the response, the exact date and time of a mood update made anywhere in the world is expressed in a format that allows accurate comparisons, is human readable, and provides a timeZone location reference.

dateFormat=iso8601&timeZone=7

http://api.myspace.com/v1/users/20599042/status?oauth_consumer_key=7121df9883d145b48a173d38 205f1209&oauth_nonce=633776915979373750&oauth_signature=qhxT49Gx3fcQsOAm+wC5JX8IXhA=&oauth_signature_method=HMAC-SHA1&oauth_timestamp=1242094798&oauth_version=1.0&status=This is a test post from my MySpaceID Sample App

{
"mood" : "(none)",
"moodId" : 0,
"moodImageUrl" : null,
"moodLastUpdated" : "2009-05-12T09:27:45",
"status" : "Off to two private parties now. Tummy feeling a little better",
"user" : {
"image" : "http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/8/s_25584f6c3a1955df11b24bf146ea2dff.jpg",
"largeImage" : "http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/8/l_25584f6c3a1955df11b24bf146ea2dff.jpg",
"name" : "Donny Mack (DM)",
"uri" : "http://api.myspace.com/v1/users/20599042",
"userId" : 20599042,
"userType" : "RegularUser",
"webUri" : "http://www.myspace.com/dotnetdon"
}

Valhall
09-01-2009, 10:09 PM
It does for me in Florida.

I just found this website about MSpace Date, Time and Timezone Formats
maybe it will help. :)

http://wiki.developer.myspace.com/index.php?title=Date%2C_Time_and_Timezone_Formats

MySpace uses a default value of timeZone=-8. Thus, the currently default time zone is United States Pacific Standard Time. This zone definition is based on the Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) standard (aka Zulu time), where the GMT zone = 0.


UPDATE

I was searching and on some websites where people ask about the MS timezone here are 2 replies

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4107572&posted=1#post4107572

"It uses your time zone. When you sign up the ask you to chose your time zone and they go by that".
"You can also change the timezone whenever you like in Account Settings. Hope this helps."

Thank you very much! Since it is showing the same for us even though we are in different timezones, it must be going to the default of GMT-8. That would shift the last update to 2:31 pm Orlando time. Now we know the page had to be created before then because of the Nevada myspace member who created his page after the Zenaida page and then entered a blog entry at 2:31 pm Orlando time. If this 2:31 pm "last update" time does apply, it could be when she uploaded the Dora picture, entered a blog, or changed the profile....maybe even created a blog. Because remember, a blog entry could have been deleted on 10/14/08 and it would not have updated the "last update" field.

JWG
09-01-2009, 10:11 PM
Hmmmmmm...:waitasec: Soooo, if I follow...you're suggesting

11:30AMish Eastern Casey sets up Zenaida's MS, then, as-Zenaida she makes profile comments on her as-Casey MS resulting in the 11:43AM & perhaps subsequent RSS's to Casey's cell phone?

OK...some things getting a little strange. :nerves:

First, to answer Bond: I hold the possibility that the 12:42 AM friend request is coming from "zenaida". :eek:

However, given that the "zenaida" page friend ID is almost half way between what I found as the new members of June 16, 2008 (range 389715668 to 389972021), this seems unlikely. After all, I doubt 125,000 members signed up in the wee hours of the morning before KC created "zenaida". :waitasec:

Well, I suppose Europe and Asia members could be responsible for those 125,000 sign-ups, right? Testing that hypothesis, I looked at the first ID from June 18, 2008. Damn...Illinois!!!! :doh:

I decided to add the lucky user to my favorites. I see the profile was last updated 6/15/2008 9:30:00 PM. 6/15!!!??? WTF!!!??? :waitasec:

Oh wait...that is PST, right? That would be...11:30 PM 6/15 in Illinois. Still not working for me. :bang:

I think we still have a slight problem with the whole myspace time stamp issue. Regardless, we are talking a few hours here, a few hours there. She is still nailed. :thumb: