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JWG
10-29-2009, 07:57 PM
P.s. JWG, I added a video so that I should have a "channel". Now tell me if you see a video link or if putting the URL into that video section works on my page.

Using your friend ID, Val, I can get to your videos. I can see the video link on your home page and I can use the "dead link" from the zenaida page as well.

However, I am guessing you are using "Profile 2.0", and zenaida is using "Profile 1.0". The false starts I looked at were also using 1.0. Most pages I ran into from that time frame were on 1.0, and I could not find any with the video link.

It seems those running with 1.0 had that link removed.

JWG
10-29-2009, 08:08 PM
JWG,

DO you still have the URL to the zenaida myspace video section? If so, can you try putting my user number in and see if it tells you my channel is gone? (may not tell you anything because I've never put videos up so I'm not sure I ever had a channel...snicker).

And thanks for all the hard work! So maybe the LE DIDN'T do anything to this page???

And then the other question is (trying to step up to your level of thinking on your sleuthy business about the false starts). Am I understanding correct that any one who started making a website say from the night of the 15th to the morning of the 16th and then later logged into their email and completed the process was assigned the same "last updated" time of 11:31 am? Is that correct?

Yes, I still have the link. It still takes me to the same page. When I plop in surrounding ID's they all take me to the same page as well.

You are correct in thinking that perhaps LE did not do anything to this page. That we can see anyway.

Regarding the "last updated" time, no...that is not what I was saying.

As soon as someone signed up for Myspace, they were assigned an ID and a page was automagically created for them. The time that page was created was dutifully recorded and can be seen if they are added as a favorite.

If they never clicked on the confirmation link, that time stamp would never change, but the page would live on.

If they clicked on the confirmation link, then they got 3 or 4 pages of stuff asking them to add more to their profile. I they chose to "skip" any of those pages, then the original time stamp would not change. If they chose to embellish anything - such as add a profile picture - the time stamp would change.

So, someone created this page at 2:29 PM on June 16 and immediately clicked on the confirmation link and uploaded the Dora the Explorer image. This resulted in an update time stamp of 2:31 PM. This person never made another profile change, but logged in at least one other time - October 14, 2008.

GreenTurtleGirl
10-29-2009, 08:35 PM
What time was the last login for that 10/14 date?

ZsaZsa
10-29-2009, 08:43 PM
Yes, I still have the link. It still takes me to the same page. When I plop in surrounding ID's they all take me to the same page as well.

You are correct in thinking that perhaps LE did not do anything to this page. That we can see anyway.

Regarding the "last updated" time, no...that is not what I was saying.

As soon as someone signed up for Myspace, they were assigned an ID and a page was automagically created for them. The time that page was created was dutifully recorded and can be seen if they are added as a favorite.

If they never clicked on the confirmation link, that time stamp would never change, but the page would live on.

If they clicked on the confirmation link, then they got 3 or 4 pages of stuff asking them to add more to their profile. I they chose to "skip" any of those pages, then the original time stamp would not change. If they chose to embellish anything - such as add a profile picture - the time stamp would change.

So, someone created this page at 2:29 PM on June 16 and immediately clicked on the confirmation link and uploaded the Dora the Explorer image. This resulted in an update time stamp of 2:31 PM. This person never made another profile change, but logged in at least one other time - October 14, 2008.

Created on June 16th and last visited on Oct 14th- what a coincidence!
I am going to love it when the Jury hears about this... :woohoo:

GreenTurtleGirl
10-29-2009, 08:50 PM
JWG
What time did "someone" log on to ZFG myspace on the 14th of Oct.? Casey was at JB's office until about 4pm. Did she have an opportunity to do this?

JWG
10-29-2009, 08:53 PM
What time was the last login for that 10/14 date?

That, we do not know.

GreenTurtleGirl
10-29-2009, 09:04 PM
That, we do not know.

As a layperson, my question is why "do we not know this?" Not being snarky, you guys are so smart, I think you guys have it down pat! You do, right? Tell me you do. Tell me Casey is going down!

Valhall
10-29-2009, 09:54 PM
We have no idea. lol

This continues the rollercoaster ride. Right now...I feel like we're headed down in the sense it appears it may NOT be the LE that made the videos go away. But the 2:31 pm time still is pretty damning if it's Casey.

We continue to wait...in the dark.

JWG
10-29-2009, 10:07 PM
We have no idea. lol

This continues the rollercoaster ride. Right now...I feel like we're headed down in the sense it appears it may NOT be the LE that made the videos go away. But the 2:31 pm time still is pretty damning if it's Casey.

We continue to wait...in the dark.

Weeeeee !!!! :takeoff:

RubyB
10-30-2009, 12:21 AM
Should this prove out to just be a huge coincidence, I'll have to reexamine my entire belief system. I'll have to rethink everything I think I know to be true. I just can't believe that coincidences this big exist!

Extrapolating the odds of this being a coincidence would make those duct tape odds seem reasonable. This could completely and permanently blow my mind. Don't let it be true... don't let it be true.

essies
10-30-2009, 08:32 AM
So what r u sayin Beans? The adults have moved over to facebook? LMAO

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm92/Kaeraste/welcomebacksmiley.jpg

KenoshaKid
10-30-2009, 09:00 AM
Not really, you need to do more than reformat the drive, you'd also need to rewrite new data on top a few times to ensure that it is not recoverable. A formatted drive's data can be recovered, the prior data of an over-written drive can be often recovered. Safest way is to physically destroy the drive.

Understood, but we were just talking about how LA/KC could have gotten it to bluescreen on purpose.

doogiesgirl
10-30-2009, 10:09 AM
Understood, but we were just talking about how LA/KC could have gotten it to bluescreen on purpose.


Being tech illiterate that was my question. Can a person cause their or any computer to have the BSOD? Are there steps that can be taken to make this happen purposely?


Also she seems to be awful busy talking/texting TL late night of the 15th early 16th, and she is on myspace, she is IMing witeplayboi (or close). and I bet she's also doing other things. She had no time to plan out Caylee's demise then, so this had to be a long term idea, she just decided to put it into motion at that time, but had already thought it though....right? And that would also play into the Z myspace being created then.....a long term plan she had. She just brought it to fruition on the 15/16th.....do you agree? MOO

KenoshaKid
10-30-2009, 10:34 AM
Being tech illiterate that was my question. Can a person cause their or any computer to have the BSOD? Are there steps that can be taken to make this happen purposely?


Also she seems to be awful busy talking/texting TL late night of the 15th early 16th, and she is on myspace, she is IMing witeplayboi (or close). and I bet she's also doing other things. She had no time to plan out Caylee's demise then, so this had to be a long term idea, she just decided to put it into motion at that time, but had already thought it though....right? And that would also play into the Z myspace being created then.....a long term plan she had. She just brought it to fruition on the 15/16th.....do you agree? MOO


Yes, you can edit the registry and there are instructions on the Internet on just how to do it. I was musing about how to do a "oh snit, Mom's coming for the computer, how can I crash it quickly" sort of maneuver.

But this is a topic for another thread, so no more from me on this particular topic in this thread.

LambChop
10-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Something else that bothers me in the ZFG, JBP story, Zanny holds KC down while the "sippy cup gang" runs off with Caylee in an attempt to kidnap the child BUT Zanny never takes KC's phone away from her. What kidnapper would not take the phone? Oh, wait, I forgot. KC would never be separated from her phone, ever. So let's see....Zanny has to run to the car and KC still has her phone, could dial 911, police could immediately go after Zanny but KC does nothing. She was not tied up and did have her phone by the calls that were made after this supposed incident but goes about her business "just like any normal day." Makes perfect sense to me!!!!

MissJames
10-30-2009, 11:27 AM
We have no idea. lol

This continues the rollercoaster ride. Right now...I feel like we're headed down in the sense it appears it may NOT be the LE that made the videos go away. But the 2:31 pm time still is pretty damning if it's Casey.

We continue to wait...in the dark.

I am just blown away with the work you and JWG hav done on this.Simply amazing.I'm in awe.Again!

cecybeans
10-30-2009, 11:48 AM
We have no idea. lol

This continues the rollercoaster ride. Right now...I feel like we're headed down in the sense it appears it may NOT be the LE that made the videos go away. But the 2:31 pm time still is pretty damning if it's Casey.

We continue to wait...in the dark.

I'm banking on what are the odds that within a couple of hours of Caylee going missing a new MySpace page is created with the exact same name and location of the "kidnapper"? If not the killer herself, that makes it one psychic "zenaida" out there. Unless that IP addy can be verified as rock solid, and I'm betting it can't, then it's just too crazy of a coincidence to be believed. The amount of disbelief I'd have to suspend to think this was a real zenaida in Miami is too much of a stretch. And I'd bet a jury would think so too. And write "premeditation" in their notes.

AZlawyer
10-30-2009, 12:52 PM
I'm banking on what are the odds that within a couple of hours of Caylee going missing a new MySpace page is created with the exact same name and location of the "kidnapper"? If not the killer herself, that makes it one psychic "zenaida" out there. Unless that IP addy can be verified as rock solid, and I'm betting it can't, then it's just too crazy of a coincidence to be believed. The amount of disbelief I'd have to suspend to think this was a real zenaida in Miami is too much of a stretch. And I'd bet a jury would think so too. And write "premeditation" in their notes.

But there's no way the jury will get to see this at all, unless the State can connect it to KC.

cecybeans
10-30-2009, 01:22 PM
But there's no way the jury will get to see this at all, unless the State can connect it to KC.

True, which is why I'm hoping they can. That time stamp and the cell activity flanking it make it look awfully probable to me.

AZlawyer
10-30-2009, 01:54 PM
True, which is why I'm hoping they can. That time stamp and the cell activity flanking it make it look awfully probable to me.

I'm just thinking the judge is going to exclude it (or the prosecutors won't even offer it) based on what we know so far.

I wonder if LE was able to retrieve the IP address for both the creation of the page on 6/16/08 and the last login on 10/14/08? If KC was logging in from JB's office, the second IP (even if masked) would almost certainly have been different from the first IP, right?

cecybeans
10-30-2009, 03:43 PM
I'm just thinking the judge is going to exclude it (or the prosecutors won't even offer it) based on what we know so far.

I wonder if LE was able to retrieve the IP address for both the creation of the page on 6/16/08 and the last login on 10/14/08? If KC was logging in from JB's office, the second IP (even if masked) would almost certainly have been different from the first IP, right?

Both IP addresses would be easy to identify by provider. My only concern would be if the creation IP was masked using trickery to make it appear it was actually in Miami and not on Hopespring.

Gma Kat
10-30-2009, 04:24 PM
I'm banking on what are the odds that within a couple of hours of Caylee going missing a new MySpace page is created with the exact same name and location of the "kidnapper"? If not the killer herself, that makes it one psychic "zenaida" out there. Unless that IP addy can be verified as rock solid, and I'm betting it can't, then it's just too crazy of a coincidence to be believed. The amount of disbelief I'd have to suspend to think this was a real zenaida in Miami is too much of a stretch. And I'd bet a jury would think so too. And write "premeditation" in their notes.

bbm: Totally agree cecybeans. At first I thought it was possible that KC simply found a fake identity to assign to the imaginanny on MySpace, but it really makes perfect sense that she created it. I don't believe in coincidences like these and I sure don't want to start being wrong now!:waitasec::waitasec:

Gma Kat
10-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Both IP addresses would be easy to identify by provider. My only concern would be if the creation IP was masked using trickery to make it appear it was actually in Miami and not on Hopespring.

I am dazzled by the knowledge of the internet some of you WS'ers possess. Now that my head has slowed it's spinning, I am wondering if KC had the technical skill/knowledge to mask the IP. I may have missed something, but nothing I have learned about KC's computer skills rises to this level of sophistication. I'm pretty sure I've posted this before but I do believe that ZFG is an alter ego of KC's used when necessary.

sumbunny
10-30-2009, 04:40 PM
I do believe you can put any address in the myspace sign up page.
I haven't seen any i.p address associated with this sign up though.

Does myspace keep track of the I.P addresses used for their pages?

essies
10-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Even if KC used an anonymous proxy server to mask her IP address-wouldn't the setup or software for this proxy server show up on her computer? May seem like a dumb question -but I'm no techie:blushing:! Mad props to everyone's research!!:bow::bow:

Themis
10-30-2009, 05:22 PM
Not really, you need to do more than reformat the drive, you'd also need to rewrite new data on top a few times to ensure that it is not recoverable. A formatted drive's data can be recovered, the prior data of an over-written drive can be often recovered. Safest way is to physically destroy the drive.
Ten years ago one would have to reformat and write over the hard drive's previous data 7 or more times! Plus, you would have to hit every single data storage string 7 times. If you've ever defragged a hard drive and watched those little blocks float up to arrange themselves nice and neat -- think of trying to overwrite every single one of those 7 times. It would take a human being a long time of key punching to do that.

cecybeans
10-30-2009, 05:29 PM
Even if KC used an anonymous proxy server to mask her IP address-wouldn't the setup or software for this proxy server show up on her computer? May seem like a dumb question -but I'm no techie:blushing:! Mad props to everyone's research!!:bow::bow:

You are right - we all owe such a debt to our private WS geeksquad - I am in awe over their capabilities. I am just hoping LE sprung for folks of equal caliber. This theory and the duct tape analysis that JWG, Valhall and a few others have spent so much time on, is such a strong indication of premeditation if it falls into place and can be admitted at trial.

Beatrice
10-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Is this true?

KC got stopped by the police &gave them info from a Zenaida?

Just Jayla
10-30-2009, 09:15 PM
Is this true?

KC got stopped by the police &gave them info from a Zenaida?

Not necessarily, or yes and no-the ticket for ZG was for not having a license at all (see florida code # from ticket on iclerk, I do not believe the code extension is for expired ID, but for no ID on person), so while KC did not give them a ZG ID, she may have told them ZG's info verbally.

Valhall
10-30-2009, 09:27 PM
According to the source that spoke to JWG and myself, who went to the court house and looked at the full record of the ZG22 case, ZG22 was a hispanic girl who actually needed a translator during the proceedings. There is a typo on the address associated with the driver's license of ZG22 that places her in the same neighborhood (i.e. right there where the ticket was given), but not the same house previously discussed early on in this thread.

It appears there really is no connection between this ZG22 and Casey.

Just Jayla
10-30-2009, 10:09 PM
According to the source that spoke to JWG and myself, who went to the court house and looked at the full record of the ZG22 case, ZG22 was a hispanic girl who actually needed a translator during the proceedings. There is a typo on the address associated with the driver's license of ZG22 that places her in the same neighborhood (i.e. right there where the ticket was given), but not the same house previously discussed early on in this thread.

It appears there really is no connection between this ZG22 and Casey.

Oh poop, I thought this was overturned with the MySpace stuff, that this was also back on the table-
Waaahhh! :cry:

cecybeans
10-31-2009, 12:11 AM
According to the source that spoke to JWG and myself, who went to the court house and looked at the full record of the ZG22 case, ZG22 was a hispanic girl who actually needed a translator during the proceedings. There is a typo on the address associated with the driver's license of ZG22 that places her in the same neighborhood (i.e. right there where the ticket was given), but not the same house previously discussed early on in this thread.

It appears there really is no connection between this ZG22 and Casey.

Shoot, KC is not a good enough actress to fake being someone who needed a translator. She has a hard time trying not to come across as Pinocchio.

patty437
10-31-2009, 10:16 AM
How did Casey know about ZG at Sawgrass Apt 210?

cecybeans
10-31-2009, 10:48 AM
How did Casey know about ZG at Sawgrass Apt 210?

That's been subject for a lot of speculation. She knew ZG's boyfriend (former boyfriend?) at the tattoo parlor. She may have heard ZG' name mentioned there. I've always thought that perhaps ZG got a call from "Sawgrass" apts (ie: KC) letting her know of a great deal on rent and an invitation to make an appt to check it out. That would explain why they both were in the parking lot at the same time, if that is the place where KC was able to also ID her car. If not, then KC knew she would be filling out a card and she could get info from her. Since KC had friends there, I've always wondered if maybe one of them had been recruited for the purpose of luring ZG there, perhaps under the auspices of something else.

Of course, KC could have just been there at the same time and seen ZG's card in the office if it was laying out on the counter. She may have thought that the apt ZG was looking at would be rented by the time she needed a story. It's really a mystery and something we may not ever know.

patty437
10-31-2009, 10:53 AM
That's been subject for a lot of speculation. She knew ZG's boyfriend (former boyfriend?) at the tattoo parlor. She may have heard ZG' name mentioned there. I've always thought that perhaps ZG got a call from "Sawgrass" apts (ie: KC) letting her know of a great deal on rent and an invitation to make an appt to check it out. That would explain why they both were in the parking lot at the same time, if that is the place where KC was able to also ID her car. If not, then KC knew she would be filling out a card and she could get info from her. Since KC had friends there, I've always wondered if maybe one of them had been recruited for the purpose of luring ZG there, perhaps under the auspices of something else.

Of course, KC could have just been there at the same time and seen ZG's card in the office if it was laying out on the counter. She may have figured that the apt ZG was looking at would be rented by the time she needed a story. It's really a mystery and something we may not ever know.

Are you saying the BF (or former BF) at the tattoo parlor worked there? I remember when 2 of the guys that worked there were on Nancy Grace, there was no mention of any ZG connection at that shop.

cecybeans
10-31-2009, 10:57 AM
Are you saying the BF (or former BF) at the tattoo parlor worked there? I remember when 2 of the guys that worked there were on Nancy Grace, there was no mention of any ZG connection at that shop.

IIRC, ZG's boyfriend worked at the tattoo parlor that KC used. If so, she may have heard the name there. A lot of that speculation was based on the previous theory of if KC was using an aka of ZG. If that was the case, she'd have wanted to single someone out with a familiar name, and the tattoo parlor was something they both had in common.

Since that looks more doubtful now, the appearance of ZG at Sawgrass may be less contrived. KC may have simply seen her application in the office before it was filed or while ZG was being given the apt. tour. She would have had to notice what car she entered in the parking lot in order to have used that for her description to LE>

patty437
10-31-2009, 11:05 AM
IIRC, ZG's boyfriend worked at the tattoo parlor that KC used. If so, she may have heard the name there. A lot of that speculation was based on the previous theory of if KC was using an aka of ZG. If that was the case, she'd have wanted to single someone out with a familiar name, and the tattoo parlor was something they both had in common.

Since that looks more doubtful now, the appearance of ZG at Sawgrass may be less contrived. KC may have simply seen her application in the office before it was filed or while ZG was being given the apt. tour. She would have had to notice what car she entered in the parking lot in order to have used that for her description to LE>

Do we know how the ZG connection from the tat parlor came to be known? I've seen ZG and she certainly has alot of tats so that makes sense.

patty437
10-31-2009, 11:12 AM
I guess I just don't understand why the guys from the tat parlor didn't mention ZG when they were on the Nancy Grace show awhile back.

cecybeans
10-31-2009, 11:53 AM
I guess I just don't understand why the guys from the tat parlor didn't mention ZG when they were on the Nancy Grace show awhile back.

Since that was part of an investigation, and JM has been representing ZG in her civil case, they may have been asked not to advertise that fact. Or they may simply not have known.

ExpectingUnicorns
10-31-2009, 11:55 AM
It was alleged that Zenaida Gonzalez's ex-boyfriend has the tattoo place where Casey got her tattoos listed as a friend on his myspace friend list. I never heard that he worked there.

Just Jayla
11-01-2009, 11:56 PM
It was alleged that Zenaida Gonzalez's ex-boyfriend has the tattoo place where Casey got her tattoos listed as a friend on his myspace friend list. I never heard that he worked there.

That's my understanding, too-But now CA brings new info to light in her recent depo, when she claims someone from DBC, TL's entertainment group friends, lived at Sawgrass....
Of course, TL does not confirm this on his end, he says he doesn't know where some of the people he works with lived (especially the bouncers), and that he had no idea where Sawgrass even was.
Another lie from CA, or was KC messing around with someone over there that knew TL so they kept mum?
Do pings ever put KC at Sawgrass? I can go back through the pings threads, but I wonder if she could have slid by there without us necessarily noticing that's where she was.

Just Jayla
11-02-2009, 12:03 AM
Then, there's the FrankM angle.....Still wonder every now and then where he might fit into this, the little devil that he has been...

AZlawyer
11-02-2009, 01:37 PM
IIRC, ZG's boyfriend worked at the tattoo parlor that KC used. If so, she may have heard the name there. A lot of that speculation was based on the previous theory of if KC was using an aka of ZG. If that was the case, she'd have wanted to single someone out with a familiar name, and the tattoo parlor was something they both had in common.

Since that looks more doubtful now, the appearance of ZG at Sawgrass may be less contrived. KC may have simply seen her application in the office before it was filed or while ZG was being given the apt. tour. She would have had to notice what car she entered in the parking lot in order to have used that for her description to LE>

Are you sure the "Real ZG" drove a silver Ford Focus, as KC claimed her ZG did? I have never seen anything confirming that KC's car description was correct.

Jolynna
11-02-2009, 02:45 PM
I guess I just don't understand why the guys from the tat parlor didn't mention ZG when they were on the Nancy Grace show awhile back.

I don't think the ex-boyfriend worked at the tattoo shop. The ex-boyfriend did have the tattoo shop listed as one of his friends on his myspace.

However, whether the ex-boyfriend hung out there or worked there, it IS possible that he could have sometimes driven ZG's vehicle & talked about ZG. He could have talked about ZG moving into Sawgrass. Maybe the link between ZG & KC is that upon a couple of occasions they were in the tattoo place at the same time and KC overheard conversations.

Jolynna
11-02-2009, 02:48 PM
Are you sure the "Real ZG" drove a silver Ford Focus, as KC claimed her ZG did? I have never seen anything confirming that KC's car description was correct. She had a new silver vehicle that looked like a Ford Focus.

Before the real ZG's myspace went private there was a picture of it on her myspace. (not rumor, I saw it myself) That is one of the reasons so many people ended up on that ZG's myspace.

BondJamesBond
11-02-2009, 03:21 PM
How did Casey know about ZG at Sawgrass Apt 210?

Great question, patty.

Someone closer to the details can correct/update add/subtract...

Best info I've seen to-date is in the the 10/09 released docs an individual indicated they expect JM's ZG to explain that she had been to Crane's Landing apt. the week of 6/16 apartment hunting and that Casey may have gleened her info there. Recall that Casey & TL visited Crane's Landing 6/19. IIRC, Tony viewed the apartment while Casey waited in the office. Based on one scenario using pings & the ADD info, Casey would've disposed of Caylee's body on Suburban Dr. the afternoon of this Crane's Landing visit, hence, an alibi may have been fresh on her mind, eh?

Exactly how Casey made a connection between ZG and Sawgrass 6/16 or 6/17 remains to be seen. Note that Casey's statement indicated the ZG incident @ Sawgrass originally occurred on 6/16, and we later heard a version given to RD about a JBPark location for the abduction...and the "script" that came w/ it. Also, note AFAIK, the Sawgrass visitor card date was originally given as 4/17 and later corrected to 6/17, IIRC.

An interested local might consider spending some shoe leather to head over to Crane's Landing Apt. and check out a visitor's card. Perhaps they ask a question like, "What other properties have you visited/are you considering?". That's a long shot...but...if that info was on the card, perhaps that would provide a simple explanation to this simple question IYKWIM.

Also, FYI. IIRC, the Crane's Landing manager, Matt, was an acquaintence of Casey's and some of the Sawgrass crowd. I don't recall if it was Vicky, Kathy, or someone else, but, do recall reading that he had a conversation w/ one of them. I don't recall the timing/details surrounding that conversation - perhaps it was after the story broke, 7/08. When/if Vicky's MS page was public she had some pics posted of her having fun w/ the Lake Vaj crowd (Danny, Dante...and maybe Iassen, but, don't hold me to exact individuals) at what appeared to be a St. Patrick's Day party (and maybe a b-day party pic? @ TGIF?). FWIW, mid-March...around St. Patrick's day would've been the time Casey staying home vs. partying IIRC. So...I'm not suggesting anything nefarious on the part of these other individuals...just FYI that there isn't more than 2-degrees of separation between some of the people there. Some have investigated Vicky further via her MS and speculated that she was a significant model for Casey's version of ZG. That info should be buried in one of these threads if interested in researching further.

Of course, Casey was familiar w/ Sawgrass, in general, from her days of meeting Annie there w/ Caylee whilst Annie was Dante's live-in. That was many months before Caylee's death...if not more than a year. Dante still, AFAIK, lives @ Sawgrass, however, Annie moved out.

Hope that helps...and not confuses...things a bit.

panama
11-02-2009, 10:16 PM
Ok, I think I figured something out.

Short version: I believe that the time associated with the 10/14/08 "Last Login" for the zenadia myspace is about 3:46pm, Eastern Daylight Time (GMT-5 +1)

Long version: (holy crap, this feels like a lab report, but, hey, I'll go with it.)

What's the general idea?
On a whim, I searched google for "last login time myspace" (without quotes :) ). The first result was a really clever idea: you systematically switch your timezone and take note of when the "Last Login" date changes by a day. After some manipulation, this info will give you the hour-long range during which the Last Login took place.


What happens once you know the two timezones where the date switchover happens?
So you end up with a block of sequential timezones where the Last Login date is displayed as 10/14/08, and you have a block of sequential timezones where the date is displayed as 10/15/08. Now, let's say that the Last Login date switchover happens going from timezone1 to timezone2. This tells you that in timezone1, at the time of the last login, it's apparently before midnight since the date is 10/14/08. And in timezone2, it's after midnight since the date is 10/15/08. Then all you have to do is ask, "if it's midnight in timezone1, what time is in my timezone?" and, "if it's midnight in timezone2, what time is in my timezone?" The times that answer these two questions give you the hour range when the Last Login occurred. (If you're curious about a timezone that isn't yours, you can just substitute that timezone in for "my timezone.")

Here's an example:
Say timezone1 is GMT+3, and timezone2 is GMT+4.
You first ask, "if it is midnight in GMT+3, what time is it in GMT-4 ?"
Well,

if it's 24:00 in GMT+3 then it's 23:00 in GMT+2.
And if it's 23:00 in GMT+2, then it's 21:00 in GMT+1.
And if it's 21:00 in GMT+1, then it's 20:00 in GMT+0.
And it it's 20:00 in GMT+0, then it's 19:00 in GMT-1.
and you continue, until you get that it's 17:00, or 5pm, in GMT-3.

You do the same thing for timezone2. So, in the example, we had that timezone2 is GMT+4. Doing the above procedure, you get that midnight in GMT+4 is 4pm in GMT-4. And these two results are hour range corresponding to the time of the Last Login! So we know that in the example, the Last Login time is between 4pm and 5pm, GMT-4.

(Maybe I've gone into too much detail here... timezones always get to me, so I need to think through the conversion in detail so I don't lose track of what I'm doing.)

How to get MySpace to think you're in a particular timezone?
This was tricky.

Zeroth attempt:
I tried changing my country in myspace, but it knows I'm in the US because of my IP, and it won't let me change to a different country. Perhaps because of profile 2.0? It might have been possible to specify actual timezone in 1.0. (I apparently can't revert to 1.0 to check because I signed up after, I think, April of this year.)

First attempt:
I tried changing my system clock in Windows, but there were two problems.
(1) You can only select geographic regions, and some have random daylight saving time, and so it ended up being ambiguous as to what GMT timezone I was actually looking at.
(2) Once I thought I found the switchover threshold, it seemed like sometimes the threshold would change! Crap! I figured it had to do with caching and cookies and things, and that I needed to see what was going on there in order to get the right result.

Second attempt:
I decided to use Safari instead of firefox because it stores cookies in "plist" files, which are basically text files, and I'm kind of familiar with them. It also has simple settings in terms of caching and cookies and so on. It also loads about a billion times faster than firefox. (Alas, I'm addicted to firefox anyway.)

Anyway, it looked like the timezone myspace thinks you're in is specified in the Cookies.plist file.
It's specified in the "timeZone=X" string in the MSCulture cookie.
X = n for timezone GMT+n.
n can be negative.
(For me, in Vista, the plist file is in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer\Safari\Cookies).

First, I set zenadia's page to my homepage so it would load upon opening Safari. I never logged into a myspace account. I disabled caching for good measure, and I allowed cookies from Myspace. I also opened Cookies.plist in a text editor and left it open.

Here's what I did to get the date switchover, starting with closed Safari:


In the plist file, change the timezone to the one I wanted.
Open up Safari.
Hit ok when the text editor would let me know that the plist file had updated. [note: myspace updates the cookies when the myspace page loads, but it doesn't change the timezone field at this point, which is good because we want the timezone to be what we specified in step 1!]
Look at the Last Login date immediately after safari opens up and displays the page (since it's the homepage). [After about a minute or two, the text editor would spontaneously tell me that the file updated again, and, lo and behold, the timezone would switch to my system time, and the displayed date would change or stick or other strange things!]
Close down safari. [The cookies file changes again when you do this, but that doesn't really matter.]
Write down the timezone I'd just tested, and the date that it produced.
goto (1).


How do you get more specific than an hour range?
I figured that myspace must store a more specific time than just an hour range. I figured I'd try... fractional timezones! Turns out, you can set n to, for example, 3.25, and myspace's servers interpret it how you'd want them to. So, 3.25 would be GMT+(3 hours and 15 minutes.)

Once I narrowed down the hour range, I'd just start adding more decimal digits to find the switchover with higher precision.

What actual results did I get?
Here's what I got.

First column is n
Second is signup date (followed by the time on my computer, just to verify that my system time didn't have an effect.)

5 10/15/2008
4 10/14/2008 (10:23)
4.25 10/15/2008 (10:24)
4.5 10/15/2008 (10:25)
3.5 10/14/2008 (10:26)
4.1 10/14/2008 (10:27)
4.2 10/14/2008 (10:27-8)
4.3 10/15/2008 (10:28)
4.21 10/14/2008 (10:31)
4.22 10/14/2008 (10:31)
4.23 10/14/2008 (10:32)
4.24 10/15/2008 (10:33)
4.235 10/15/2008 (10:35)
4.232 10/14/2008 (10:35)
4.233 10/14/2008 (10:37) (10:42)
4.234 10/15/2008 (10:39) (10:42)

Switchover
Oct. 14th: GMT+4.233
Oct. 15th: GMT+4.234

Time range for Florida
Midnight for GMT+4.233: 23.767 for GMT+4 -> 19.767 FOR GMT+0 -> 14.767 FOR GMT-5 ; 2:46:01 PM
Midnight for GMT+4.234: 23.766 for GMT+4 -> 19.766 FOR GMT+0 -> 14.766 FOR GMT-5 ; 2:45:58 PM
(EDT = GMT-5 + 1 -> between 2:45:58pm and 2:46:01pm -> 3:46pm) on 10/14/08.
I added the hour for daylight saving time because it was October.

Is any of this even correct?
I made some assumptions, perhaps some about daylight savings time, and maaaybe about timezones. [Though, the procedure works regardless of the fact that myspace has some times displayed in GMT-8/pacific by default. As long as we know that the Login happened when it was before midnight in Country A, and after midnight in Country B (where Country B is in the next timezone over), and as long as we know what the timezones of Countries A and B are, we can find out what time it was anywhere in the world when the Login happened. Things might get weird if, on myspace's end, GMT+n in the cookie translates to GMT+not n when it's daylight saving time in GMT+n regions... :doh: In conclusion, perhaps this issue could warrant further investigation, and daylight saving time can go straight to heck.]

To double check the procedure, I did the same thing to find the times that people have already established: the Signup time, and the Last Updated time. Just to see if the same procedure and assumptions gave the established results. Here's what I got:

First column is n.
Second column is the Date displated on the page.

9 6/17 (both)
7 6/17 (both)
6 6/17 (both)
5 6/16 (both)
5.5 6/17 (both)
5.25 6/16 (both)
5.3 6/16 (both)
5.4 6/16 (both)
5.45 6/16 (both)
5.48 6/16 (both)
5.49 SIGNUP: 6/16, UPDATED: 6/17
5.5 SIGNUP: 6/16, UPDATED: 6/17
5.51 SIGNUP: 6/16, UPDATED: 6/17
5.52 SIGNUP: 6/17, UPDATED: 6/17

Calculations:

SIGNUP:
5.51 6/16 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.51 -> 23.49 for GMT+5 -> 18.49 for GMT+0 -> 13.49 for GMT-5 ; 1:29:24
5.52 6/17 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.52 -> 23.48 FOR GMT+5 -> 18.48 for GMT+0 -> 13.48 for GMT-5 ; 1:28:48
(EDT = GMT-5 +1 -> between 2:28pm & 2:29pm) on 6/16/08


UPDATED:
5.48 6/16 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.48 -> 23.52 for GMT+5 -> 18.52 for GMT+0 -> 13.52 for GMT-5 ; 1:31:18
5.49 6/17 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.49 -> 23.51 for GMT+5 -> 18.51 for GMT+0 -> 13.51 for GMT-5 ; 1:30:36
(EDT = GMT-5 +1 -> between 2:30pm & 2:31pm) on 6/16/08

I believe these times are consistent with the ones people previously found, which lends support to the Last Login time being correct.

Lastly...
If anyone wants to double check this, that would be really really cool. It seems like there's a lot of room for error, from timezones, to daylight saving nonsense, to calculations, to cookies.

I tried to test it with my own myspace account (created for testing purposes), since I know when I last Logged In. But I never saw a day switchover. I think it might be because I'm using profile 2.0.

I'm not sure what Last Login actually refers to -- when you signed in, or when you signed out. (I could see it being either). I haven't looked around for this info yet.

I think that's it. I hope the explanation make some sense. (I don't even know whether it was too detailed or not detailed enough :) )

Just Jayla
11-02-2009, 10:39 PM
Great question, patty.

Someone closer to the details can correct/update add/subtract...

Best info I've seen to-date is in the the 10/09 released docs an individual indicated they expect JM's ZG to explain that she had been to Crane's Landing apt. the week of 6/16 apartment hunting and that Casey may have gleened her info there. Recall that Casey & TL visited Crane's Landing 6/19. IIRC, Tony viewed the apartment while Casey waited in the office. Based on one scenario using pings & the ADD info, Casey would've disposed of Caylee's body on Suburban Dr. the afternoon of this Crane's Landing visit, hence, an alibi may have been fresh on her mind, eh?

Exactly how Casey made a connection between ZG and Sawgrass 6/16 or 6/17 remains to be seen. Note that Casey's statement indicated the ZG incident @ Sawgrass originally occurred on 6/16, and we later heard a version given to RD about a JBPark location for the abduction...and the "script" that came w/ it. Also, note AFAIK, the Sawgrass visitor card date was originally given as 4/17 and later corrected to 6/17, IIRC.

An interested local might consider spending some shoe leather to head over to Crane's Landing Apt. and check out a visitor's card. Perhaps they ask a question like, "What other properties have you visited/are you considering?". That's a long shot...but...if that info was on the card, perhaps that would provide a simple explanation to this simple question IYKWIM.

Also, FYI. IIRC, the Crane's Landing manager, Matt, was an acquaintence of Casey's and some of the Sawgrass crowd. I don't recall if it was Vicky, Kathy, or someone else, but, do recall reading that he had a conversation w/ one of them. I don't recall the timing/details surrounding that conversation - perhaps it was after the story broke, 7/08. When/if Vicky's MS page was public she had some pics posted of her having fun w/ the Lake Vaj crowd (Danny, Dante...and maybe Iassen, but, don't hold me to exact individuals) at what appeared to be a St. Patrick's Day party (and maybe a b-day party pic? @ TGIF?). FWIW, mid-March...around St. Patrick's day would've been the time Casey staying home vs. partying IIRC. So...I'm not suggesting anything nefarious on the part of these other individuals...just FYI that there isn't more than 2-degrees of separation between some of the people there. Some have investigated Vicky further via her MS and speculated that she was a significant model for Casey's version of ZG. That info should be buried in one of these threads if interested in researching further.

Of course, Casey was familiar w/ Sawgrass, in general, from her days of meeting Annie there w/ Caylee whilst Annie was Dante's live-in. That was many months before Caylee's death...if not more than a year. Dante still, AFAIK, lives @ Sawgrass, however, Annie moved out.

Hope that helps...and not confuses...things a bit.


Maybe VickiA ties in here, as you wrote-Doesn't she have a toddler named Zachary? And/or referred to Michele and Jasmin (sp.) on her MySpace?

There is a VickiA on iclerk that would be close to KC in age, that was arrested for disorderly conduct in october of last year, here's that link:

http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=73492674-dec8-4aac-bb52-8a3dab614763&CaseID=6086571#Sen

ETA-I don't mean she necessarily has to tie in in a negative way, either, not saying she helped KC....maybe KC saw her around that time, in one of the apartment clubhouses, something....and KC incorporated her

cecybeans
11-02-2009, 10:43 PM
Holy guacamole panama! You are blinding me with science! Thanks for such patient unravelling of that cyber conundrum.

I have only one question - what time did KC get carted off to jail the day she was indicted? If it is impossible for her to have actually logged in from a computer could she have logged in from a cellphone? Also, if the account was logged into from a computer, would it be possible to identify the IP if it was JB's office? If that's the case, he or someone in his office would have had to do it while she was waiting at OCSO to "cooperate". Either that or a family member could have done it at the residence. This of course, would mean she had an accomplice. I wonder what the password was for logging in? Did anyone try stuff out before it froze?

(well those certainly weren't just one question, sorry!)

BondJamesBond
11-02-2009, 11:15 PM
Ok, I think I figured something out.

Short version: I believe that the time associated with the 10/14/08 "Last Login" for the zenadia myspace is about 4:46pm, Eastern Daylight Time (GMT-5 +1)
*snipped*

Thanks for the detail, panama. Much appreciated.

FWIW...this report indicates Casey was being escorted into OCSO @ 4:40PM on 10/14 http://www.wftv.com/news/17705500/detail.html

cecybeans
11-02-2009, 11:24 PM
*snipped*

Thanks for the detail, panama. Much appreciated.

FWIW...this WESH report indicates Casey was being escorted into OCSO @ 4:40PM on 10/14 http://www.wftv.com/news/17705500/detail.html

Thanks - I was missing the time stamp on the ones I saw. I take it to mean it is unlikely that she accessed the page herself, either by computer or phone, if the 4:46 time is actual and not delayed by some server cache timer device. Dang! I'd still love to know the IP addy where it was accessed, however. The creation time and last-accessed time could not possibly be known in advance by anyone else but her. And the coincidence of it being someone else seems pretty astronomical for comfort.

panama
11-02-2009, 11:42 PM
Wow, so in the first few lines, the time was supposed to say 3:46pm. Oops. I went back and edited it. It's correct (or at least typo-free) everywhere now, I believe.

I wonder if it's possible that the last login is actually the last time you were logged in.

The article says that she was "at her lawyer's office in Osceola County on Tuesday afternoon until around 3:00pm, enjoying her last few hours of the limited freedom she had." Maybe she was logged on at the lawyer's (JB?) office (!) and then got auto-logged out after a while, i.e., 3:46pm? Hmm.

(btw, I'm glad the detail is good. I figured it might make it easier if someone else wants to try and compare or replicate results. Go science! :) )

sleutherontheside
11-03-2009, 12:02 AM
Wow, so in the first few lines, the time was supposed to say 3:46pm. Oops. I went back and edited it. It's correct (or at least typo-free) everywhere now, I believe.

I wonder if it's possible that the last login is actually the last time you were logged in.

The article says that she was "at her lawyer's office in Osceola County on Tuesday afternoon until around 3:00pm, enjoying her last few hours of the limited freedom she had." Maybe she was logged on at the lawyer's (JB?) office (!) and then got auto-logged out after a while, i.e., 3:46pm? Hmm.

(btw, I'm glad the detail is good. I figured it might make it easier if someone else wants to try and compare or replicate results. Go science! :) )

Yes....remember that instead of turning herself in, her attorney first held the presser? She or someone else in that office had all the time in the world to check one last time. IDIOTS

Imbackon
11-03-2009, 12:10 AM
panama;4378535]Ok, I think I figured something out.

Short version: I believe that the time associated with the 10/14/08 "Last Login" for the zenadia myspace is about 3:46pm, Eastern Daylight Time (GMT-5 +1)

Long version: (holy crap, this feels like a lab report, but, hey, I'll go with it.)

What's the general idea?
On a whim, I searched google for "last login time myspace" (without quotes :) ). The first result was a really clever idea: you systematically switch your timezone and take note of when the "Last Login" date changes by a day. After some manipulation, this info will give you the hour-long range during which the Last Login took place.

Respectfully snipped by me


I not sure I understand why the last updated date/time comes across your cookie when you are not the user and not logged in. I'm in IT but I'm an old mainframer, so different worlds!

Anyway, whatever you did, I hope you can show this to someone in LE, should it come out that in fact they do think KC created this page!
They might need your expertise!

Good work, even if it is above my head.

Valhall
11-03-2009, 12:18 AM
I'm not sure what Last Login actually refers to -- when you signed in, or when you signed out. (I could see it being either). I haven't looked around for this info yet.

I think that's it. I hope the explanation make some sense. (I don't even know whether it was too detailed or not detailed enough :) )

*Respectfully snipped for space*

YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

countzero
11-03-2009, 12:22 AM
Gonna throw in another possibility here, if someone else has not previously mentioned it (after reading so many pages I don't remember) .....

CA only plays dumb about being computer illiterate. I wouldn't put it pass CA to be the one who came up with the cover story to create a zanny myspace account. Both CA and KC could have been accessing the account. If LE can bring it in to testimony, it will be very interesting to see exactly the info used to create and maintain it. LE can follow spoofing IPs.

kew17
11-03-2009, 12:49 AM
Yes....remember that instead of turning herself in, her attorney first held the presser? She or someone else in that office had all the time in the world to check one last time. IDIOTS

My bets are on Lee as the suspected last check in. He DID have all her passwords, no? Maybe he went in that last time to "change" that password as the investigation was, shall we say stepping up.

cecybeans
11-03-2009, 01:21 AM
Gonna throw in another possibility here, if someone else has not previously mentioned it (after reading so many pages I don't remember) .....

CA only plays dumb about being computer illiterate. I wouldn't put it pass CA to be the one who came up with the cover story to create a zanny myspace account. Both CA and KC could have been accessing the account. If LE can bring it in to testimony, it will be very interesting to see exactly the info used to create and maintain it. LE can follow spoofing IPs.

The only problem with that is that it was created the day Caylee went missing. Unless CA had advance notice, I doubt she would play along. Most of her Spin Cycle seems to have occurred after LE and the public got involved and it suddenly became clear to her exactly how she would look as Mother of a Murderer. Which means that, whoever created this knew exactly the day Caylee went missing and created it BEFORE she did by a small margin. That really reeks of premeditation, imo. Not to say that CA wasn't shown this by her daughter, but I'd have thought that CA would have given YM a big old voicemail instructing him to get on the stick and check this person out.

countzero
11-03-2009, 09:40 AM
The only problem with that is that it was created the day Caylee went missing. Unless CA had advance notice, I doubt she would play along. Most of her Spin Cycle seems to have occurred after LE and the public got involved and it suddenly became clear to her exactly how she would look as Mother of a Murderer. Which means that, whoever created this knew exactly the day Caylee went missing and created it BEFORE she did by a small margin. That really reeks of premeditation, imo. Not to say that CA wasn't shown this by her daughter, but I'd have thought that CA would have given YM a big old voicemail instructing him to get on the stick and check this person out.

bbm: thanks .... that is what I have eventually come to think as well. Not a popular opinion around here, but I have always thought that CA was involved in Caylee's murder. Either directly or indirectly as I sit on that fence.

Remembering that CA and KC sat at the computer composing the mycayleeismissing page before KC was arrested, CA certainly would have wanted to find out if Zannie had a page. And of course there was one. Given what we know now of the dynamics of the A clan, CA certainly did NOT shout or even whisper knowledge of this myspace account.

Then we have the information that CA spouted about all the ZFG they found in FL and the background checks that DC performed, nothing was mentioned about the Zannie myspace page. Really strange they wanted to keep it "under the radar" as CA likes to say about herself.

Now that I think more about it, I'm left wondering if CA' work computer has been checked out for any searches. Hummmmm ....... as well as DC's.

TakeNote
11-03-2009, 10:36 AM
I think you all are awesome!!

i have a question though.....if KC was/is able to pull of this ZG myspace.....
if she pre-planed this.....why did she do it on the 16th?.....why not do it long before hand....months before......?

the only thing i can think of she did it out of panic.....after what ever she did to caylee.....

i wonder why there was only the one other log in.....kc had a whole month....why didnt she make it look more like a real zg myspace?......i sitll wonder if she was planing on leaving town....and then useing this zg myspace to send her self or parents messages from zg/her self.....i also wonder if she could have had pic's of caylee not ever seen before by the family....to add to the myspace to make it look as though caylee was really with zanny......???

ok....rambleing now......i just wanted to say....great job....and it prevoked some thoughts in my crazy mind of what if's :)

Just Jayla
11-03-2009, 10:46 AM
I am wondering about the southern Florida IP that the source referred to regarding the set-up of the ZG MySpace....Not to get too personal, but do the Baez' have a home or an office around Miami? Here's what I am gettnig at-I wonder if JB was accessing another PC remotely from his Orlando office. Here's a little about his Miami-Dade days and his own computer expertise:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/may/03/casey-anthonys-lawyer-jose-baez-rejected-florida-b/

If Mr./Mrs. Baez have a laptop that was set-up or that she regularly uses in Miami, and she brings the laptop to Orlando on a wired broadband connection, would the laptop still connect with her southern Florida IP? I am assuming wireless would connect locally.

cecybeans
11-03-2009, 10:48 AM
CZ - the biggest obstacle for me believing that CA could have been directly involved (I think most of us feel she indirectly helped with her toxic competitive narcissism and her enabling) was that KC would not have hesitated for a moment to throw CA under the bus. And I don't think CA - if KC had any real dirt on her - would have risk KC's wrath by creating that bitter little MySpace ditty, or calling 911 in such an obvious panic.

Perhaps CA wanted to keep things under the radar because she was the only she deemed qualified to pass judgement and hand out punishment. She didn't want to hand out authority to GA much less anyone else in managing her daughter, as if she was a complete creation and extension of herself. I think there are a few family anomalies that CA wants noone to see.

If KC told her mom about this "Z", then I'd assume that DC's computer would have been used to check it out. In fact, it would be a bad PI that hadn't found and investigated it, since our stellar researcher Valhall did. But I'm thinking that the Anthony family realized that ZFG was a dead end early on, and after Morgan's ZG started her civil suit, they more or less dropped that as a realistic SODDI concept and started hunting elsewhere for scapegoats.

cecybeans
11-03-2009, 11:54 AM
I am wondering about the southern Florida IP that the source referred to regarding the set-up of the ZG MySpace....Not to get too personal, but do the Baez' have a home or an office around Miami? Here's what I am gettnig at-I wonder if JB was accessing another PC remotely from his Orlando office. Here's a little about his Miami-Dade days and his own computer expertise:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/may/03/casey-anthonys-lawyer-jose-baez-rejected-florida-b/

If Mr./Mrs. Baez have a laptop that was set-up or that she regularly uses in Miami, and she brings the laptop to Orlando on a wired broadband connection, would the laptop still connect with her southern Florida IP? I am assuming wireless would connect locally.

That is an interesting observation - it would require KC to have known JB well ahead of time in order to create the page the day Caylee died and a month before CA reported her missing.

countzero
11-03-2009, 12:06 PM
CZ - the biggest obstacle for me believing that CA could have been directly involved (I think most of us feel she indirectly helped with her toxic competitive narcissism and her enabling) was that KC would not have hesitated for a moment to throw CA under the bus. And I don't think CA - if KC had any real dirt on her - would have risk KC's wrath by creating that bitter little MySpace ditty, or calling 911 in such an obvious panic.

I have thought long about just this. There are still missing pieces of prior history between these two. The pieces we do have just don't jive together for me. But that is for another thread. Although I agree the myspace account was created the day Caylee disappeared and KC was responsible. Just when CA knew is up for grabs, imho.

Perhaps CA wanted to keep things under the radar because she was the only she deemed qualified to pass judgement and hand out punishment. She didn't want to hand out authority to GA much less anyone else in managing her daughter, as if she was a complete creation and extension of herself. I think there are a few family anomalies that CA wants noone to see.

Ha, there is no perhaps included in your sentence. She did and has deemed herself this position, lol.


If KC told her mom about this "Z", then I'd assume that DC's computer would have been used to check it out. In fact, it would be a bad PI that hadn't found and investigated it, since our stellar researcher Valhall did. But I'm thinking that the Anthony family realized that ZFG was a dead end early on, and after Morgan's ZG started her civil suit, they more or less dropped that as a realistic SODDI concept and started hunting elsewhere for scapegoats.

Thanks cecybeans .... There is just so much evidence collected in this thread for me to agree that KC originated the ZFG myspace. I'm waiting for LE to validate it like the rest of us. For me, there was more than enough time from the moment the car was found for coverup stories to be created, including the extension of updating the myspace page, both for Caylee and ZFG. As for CA's 911 calls, I continue to believe they were simply part of the coverup. Again, those theories are in another thread.

Whether CA did or didn't have knowledge of the ZFG myspace page, it's discovery lends credence to KC's motives which most of us agree with.

JWG
11-03-2009, 12:22 PM
Ok, I think I figured something out.

Short version: I believe that the time associated with the 10/14/08 "Last Login" for the zenadia myspace is about 3:46pm, Eastern Daylight Time (GMT-5 +1)

*** SNIP ***

SIGNUP:
5.51 6/16 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.51 -> 23.49 for GMT+5 -> 18.49 for GMT+0 -> 13.49 for GMT-5 ; 1:29:24
5.52 6/17 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.52 -> 23.48 FOR GMT+5 -> 18.48 for GMT+0 -> 13.48 for GMT-5 ; 1:28:48
(EDT = GMT-5 +1 -> between 2:28pm & 2:29pm) on 6/16/08


UPDATED:
5.48 6/16 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.48 -> 23.52 for GMT+5 -> 18.52 for GMT+0 -> 13.52 for GMT-5 ; 1:31:18
5.49 6/17 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.49 -> 23.51 for GMT+5 -> 18.51 for GMT+0 -> 13.51 for GMT-5 ; 1:30:36
(EDT = GMT-5 +1 -> between 2:30pm & 2:31pm) on 6/16/08

I believe these times are consistent with the ones people previously found, which lends support to the Last Login time being correct.

Awesome piece of work, Agent P. :clap:

Now, can anyone on this board tell us where KC was at 3:46 PM on October 14? :waitasec:

ETA: I should read all the way through the thread rather than blurting out a question. :doh: I see Mr. Bond has already answered my question. :thumb:

LambChop
11-03-2009, 12:46 PM
I am wondering about the southern Florida IP that the source referred to regarding the set-up of the ZG MySpace....Not to get too personal, but do the Baez' have a home or an office around Miami? Here's what I am gettnig at-I wonder if JB was accessing another PC remotely from his Orlando office. Here's a little about his Miami-Dade days and his own computer expertise:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/may/03/casey-anthonys-lawyer-jose-baez-rejected-florida-b/

If Mr./Mrs. Baez have a laptop that was set-up or that she regularly uses in Miami, and she brings the laptop to Orlando on a wired broadband connection, would the laptop still connect with her southern Florida IP? I am assuming wireless would connect locally.


Not sure this questions was asked previously but didn't JB's daughter go to school in Miami? Maybe she is the one with the Miami laptop? Not computer literate so don't know how that would work.

JWG
11-03-2009, 01:09 PM
Wow, so in the first few lines, the time was supposed to say 3:46pm. Oops. I went back and edited it. It's correct (or at least typo-free) everywhere now, I believe.

I wonder if it's possible that the last login is actually the last time you were logged in.

The article says that she was "at her lawyer's office in Osceola County on Tuesday afternoon until around 3:00pm, enjoying her last few hours of the limited freedom she had." Maybe she was logged on at the lawyer's (JB?) office (!) and then got auto-logged out after a while, i.e., 3:46pm? Hmm.

(btw, I'm glad the detail is good. I figured it might make it easier if someone else wants to try and compare or replicate results. Go science! :) )

FWIW...the last login reflects the last time the user entered their email address and password into the sign-in screen. When this is done a cookie is created that myspace looks at during future visits to see if the user is logged in or not. Thus it is important to know where KC was at 3:46 PM, because that is when she (or someone) logged into that account. It is not a log out time.

Logging out is not shown on a myspace page. Myspace might record it somewhere in their records when a user clicks on the "sign out" button, but that is not the only method of signing out. Clicking on the "sign out" button
also deletes the cookie I mentioned above (or at least it removes the token from the cookie that lets myspace know a specific user is logged in). That cookie is also deleted when:


A tab with the myspace page is closed in a tabbed browser, and then the tabbed browser is closed.
A non-tabbed browser with the myspace page is closed.

Note that if the myspace page is opened in a tabbed browser and the browser is closed (but not the tab), the cookie is not automatically deleted. I've tested the above on tabbed browsers (Firefox and Chrome) as well as non-tabbed (IE 6).

Anyway, bottom line is if the 3:46PM time is accurate, then KC would have to be at a computer somewhere at 3:46PM for the login to have been due to her actions.

So when did the slow-speed chase occur? :waitasec:

OneLostGrl
11-03-2009, 01:27 PM
bbm: thanks .... that is what I have eventually come to think as well. Not a popular opinion around here, but I have always thought that CA was involved in Caylee's murder. Either directly or indirectly as I sit on that fence.

Remembering that CA and KC sat at the computer composing the mycayleeismissing page before KC was arrested, CA certainly would have wanted to find out if Zannie had a page. And of course there was one. Given what we know now of the dynamics of the A clan, CA certainly did NOT shout or even whisper knowledge of this myspace account.

Then we have the information that CA spouted about all the ZFG they found in FL and the background checks that DC performed, nothing was mentioned about the Zannie myspace page. Really strange they wanted to keep it "under the radar" as CA likes to say about herself.

Now that I think more about it, I'm left wondering if CA' work computer has been checked out for any searches. Hummmmm ....... as well as DC's.

I gotta tell ya, it's nice to hear I'm not sitting on this fence alone!

cecybeans
11-03-2009, 01:36 PM
FWIW...the last login reflects the last time the user entered their email address and password into the sign-in screen. When this is done a cookie is created that myspace looks at during future visits to see if the user is logged in or not. Thus it is important to know where KC was at 3:46 PM, because that is when she (or someone) logged into that account. It is not a log out time.

Logging out is not shown on a myspace page. Myspace might record it somewhere in their records when a user clicks on the "sign out" button, but that is not the only method of signing out. Clicking on the "sign out" button
also deletes the cookie I mentioned above (or at least it removes the token from the cookie that lets myspace know a specific user is logged in). That cookie is also deleted when:


A tab with the myspace page is closed in a tabbed browser, and then the tabbed browser is closed.
A non-tabbed browser with the myspace page is closed.

Note that if the myspace page is opened in a tabbed browser and the browser is closed (but not the tab), the cookie is not automatically deleted. I've tested the above on tabbed browsers (Firefox and Chrome) as well as non-tabbed (IE 6).

Anyway, bottom line is if the 3:46PM time is accurate, then KC would have to be at a computer somewhere at 3:46PM for the login to have been due to her actions.

So when did the slow-speed chase occur? :waitasec:

Could KC access this from a cellphone? If so, could she have used CA's phone if she was in the car? I am also wondering if, after the indictment, JB took KC back to his office for the press conference. If that's the case, and she was inside, then it is possible she briefly had computer access.

reeseeva
11-03-2009, 01:40 PM
On October 14, 2008, she was booked @ 7:04 P.M. IIRC she was home before the car chase and then tried to switch cars:waitasec:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71772&highlight=October&page=3

Post #55

sarah7855
11-03-2009, 01:55 PM
FWIW...the last login reflects the last time the user entered their email address and password into the sign-in screen. When this is done a cookie is created that myspace looks at during future visits to see if the user is logged in or not. Thus it is important to know where KC was at 3:46 PM, because that is when she (or someone) logged into that account. It is not a log out time.

Logging out is not shown on a myspace page. Myspace might record it somewhere in their records when a user clicks on the "sign out" button, but that is not the only method of signing out. Clicking on the "sign out" button
also deletes the cookie I mentioned above (or at least it removes the token from the cookie that lets myspace know a specific user is logged in). That cookie is also deleted when:


A tab with the myspace page is closed in a tabbed browser, and then the tabbed browser is closed.
A non-tabbed browser with the myspace page is closed.

Note that if the myspace page is opened in a tabbed browser and the browser is closed (but not the tab), the cookie is not automatically deleted. I've tested the above on tabbed browsers (Firefox and Chrome) as well as non-tabbed (IE 6).

Anyway, bottom line is if the 3:46PM time is accurate, then KC would have to be at a computer somewhere at 3:46PM for the login to have been due to her actions.

So when did the slow-speed chase occur? :waitasec:

http://www.wftv.com/video/19108513/index.html

BBM; This is the audio from EE's interview with Casey on Oct.14th. He states the time is approx "4:05pm", and they are approaching the traffic stop where Casey is in custody.

JWG
11-03-2009, 03:18 PM
http://www.wftv.com/video/19108513/index.html

BBM; This is the audio from EE's interview with Casey on Oct.14th. He states the time is approx "4:05pm", and they are approaching the traffic stop where Casey is in custody.

IIRC, the stop was made at the underpass where Narcossee goes under 417. According to Google Earth that is 8.8 miles, or 19 minutes drive using whatever assumptions the tool makes. Roughly 28 MPH.

So let's apply the credibility test.

CA and KC allegedly arranged the car switch so that KC can attempt to turn herself in without the media being there. I imagine things were a bit frantic and emotional those final minutes at the Anthony home.

Is it credible to believe that one of the very last things KC did in the home - perhaps the very last thing she did - was to login to the zenaida Myspace page? :waitasec:

essies
11-03-2009, 03:45 PM
IIRC, the stop was made at the underpass where Narcossee goes under 417. According to Google Earth that is 8.8 miles, or 19 minutes drive using whatever assumptions the tool makes. Roughly 28 MPH.

So let's apply the credibility test.

CA and KC allegedly arranged the car switch so that KC can attempt to turn herself in without the media being there. I imagine things were a bit frantic and emotional those final minutes at the Anthony home.

Is it credible to believe that one of the very last things KC did in the home - perhaps the very last thing she did - was to login to the zenaida Myspace page? :waitasec:

Or perhaps IN THE CAR using a cell phone?:waitasec:

AZlawyer
11-03-2009, 04:32 PM
Or perhaps IN THE CAR using a cell phone?:waitasec:

By then I think KC was catching on to the fact that LE could take her cell phone and forensically examine it. I doubt she would do something potentially incriminating with a cell phone that might end up being taken into evidence.

Unless she thought it would actually bolster her story to say, "Look, up until the second they arrested me I was desperately trying to find out whether Zani had left me any messages on her MySpace page." ;)

essies
11-03-2009, 04:41 PM
By then I think KC was catching on to the fact that LE could take her cell phone and forensically examine it. I doubt she would do something potentially incriminating with a cell phone that might end up being taken into evidence.

Unless she thought it would actually bolster her story to say, "Look, up until the second they arrested me I was desperately trying to find out whether Zani had left me any messages on her MySpace page." ;)

Maybe she didn't use her phone?:waitasec:

reeseeva
11-03-2009, 04:55 PM
I don't know if this has been answered before, but wouldn't Morgan & Co., want to get to the bottom of this information, for the Civil Lawsuit?

panama
11-03-2009, 05:07 PM
Respectfully snipped by me


I not sure I understand why the last updated date/time comes across your cookie when you are not the user and not logged in. I'm in IT but I'm an old mainframer, so different worlds!

Anyway, whatever you did, I hope you can show this to someone in LE, should it come out that in fact they do think KC created this page!
They might need your expertise!

Good work, even if it is above my head.

Ok, if I understand your guestion correctly, here's my guess: the folks at Myspace just decided to have it be that way, and built that functionality into the website. They wanted anybody (logged in or not) who views any user's myspace page to have a custom view (custom timezone, language, etc.). So instead of throwing out the same webpage for everyone, it uses the cookies installed on users' machines in order to determine what webpage to generate. (fwiw, even though I'm not technically logged in username and password-wise, the cookies on my machine store my IP address, so it's kind of like I am logged in, in a sense.)

If you're curious, here's the "MSCulture" cookie that myspace put on my machine:

<dict>
<key>Created</key>
<real>278704663.5890007</real>
<key>Domain</key>
<string>.myspace.com</string>
<key>Expires</key>
<date>2009-11-07T17:57:43Z</date>
<key>Name</key>
<string>MSCulture</string>
<key>Path</key>
<string>/</string>
<key>Value</key>
<string>IP=[deleted for privacy :)]&amp;IPCulture=en-US&amp;PreferredCulture=en-US&amp;Country=VVM%3D&amp;ForcedExpiration=0&amp; timeZone=-5&amp;USRLOC=[crazy string of characters that's nonsensical to me, but not to myspace's servers]</string>
</dict>


Also, thanks! I appreciate the compliment :). The thing is, I bet LE already has the login time, IP, and everything else there is to have for the zenadia account. (I think that all they have to do is pick up the phone or fill out some paperwork to get the info...) Hopefully that info will be in a future document dump, and we can compare the findings from the Macgyver-type techniques going on here to the information that they've got!

cecybeans
11-03-2009, 05:08 PM
I don't know if this has been answered before, but wouldn't Morgan & Co., want to get to the bottom of this information, for the Civil Lawsuit?

I believe they have been informed and are well aware of the situation.

Valhall
11-03-2009, 09:41 PM
IIRC, the stop was made at the underpass where Narcossee goes under 417. According to Google Earth that is 8.8 miles, or 19 minutes drive using whatever assumptions the tool makes. Roughly 28 MPH.

So let's apply the credibility test.

CA and KC allegedly arranged the car switch so that KC can attempt to turn herself in without the media being there. I imagine things were a bit frantic and emotional those final minutes at the Anthony home.

Is it credible to believe that one of the very last things KC did in the home - perhaps the very last thing she did - was to login to the zenaida Myspace page? :waitasec:

I would think not. I can't even imagine that scene. CA's honking the horn and JB's telling KC to get to the car and she says - Wait! I have to do something on myspace right quick! o_O

I don't think so.

JWG
11-03-2009, 09:53 PM
I would think not. I can't even imagine that scene. CA's honking the horn and JB's telling KC to get to the car and she says - Wait! I have to do something on myspace right quick! o_O

I don't think so.

So then ... as much as I hate to throw this out there ... are we back to the square where this Myspace page is nothing more than a bizarre coincidence? :waitasec:

mom2chloe
11-03-2009, 09:55 PM
I would think not. I can't even imagine that scene. CA's honking the horn and JB's telling KC to get to the car and she says - Wait! I have to do something on myspace right quick! o_O

I don't think so.

Perhaps if she were full of chili, and had baked enough brownies to her heart's content, she may have accessed ZG's Myspace page....after all she might do anything to avoid those final emotional moments with CA prior to being reincarcerated...then there is the idea of her using the Bat Phone...hmmmm:waitasec:

ETA I think we may be back to square one! At least as far as how she may have accessed MS prior to being handcuffed again!

sleutherontheside
11-03-2009, 09:55 PM
I think that we will learn much once the IP reports from myspace are released. We may not have seen them...because JB may not have asked the SA for them. He knows...thus doesn't need to open that door yet. JB has a routed server account. Remember his issue with "secure server" for photos? That IMO is due to his IP account being masked. While we don't know all the facts YET, we soon will. Valhall and JWG have constructed detailed analysis and that has been without benefit of IP confirmations. It is only a matter of time.

sleutherontheside
11-03-2009, 09:58 PM
May I ask.......does anyone remember that KC was prohibited from using cell phone or internet while on home confinement?* I can't find proof, but I swear that was an issue.* If so....why did the batphone scenario even happen?* Was internet usage from the A house monitored?

Valhall
11-03-2009, 10:07 PM
So then ... as much as I hate to throw this out there ... are we back to the square where this Myspace page is nothing more than a bizarre coincidence? :waitasec:

I think we are back to the square where this is the world's largest coincidence...or at least one of them anyways.

JBean
11-03-2009, 10:07 PM
May I ask.......does anyone remember that KC was prohibited from using cell phone or internet while on home confinement?* I can't find proof, but I swear that was an issue.* If so....why did the batphone scenario even happen?* Was internet usage from the A house monitored?
IIRC, it was part of her bail conditions. I'll see if I can find them. They were discussed for sure.

sleutherontheside
11-03-2009, 10:12 PM
IIRC, it was part of her bail conditions. I'll see if I can find them. They were discussed for sure.

That's what I just don't understand.....if those were terms of bail....and we have heard about KC using the net at JB's office and at home. I recall the whole Lois issue. Why was her bail not revoked? Were they hoping she would do it anyway because they were monitoring? Makes one wonder.....the batphones......the e-mails.....the LONG hours at JB's office? From a legal standpoint.....if that were later confirmed....would that validate an appeal based upon ineffective counsel???

JBean
11-03-2009, 10:16 PM
That's what I just don't understand.....if those were terms of bail....and we have heard about KC using the net at JB's office and at home. I recall the whole Lois issue. Why was her bail not revoked? Were they hoping she would do it anyway because they were monitoring? Makes one wonder.....the batphones......the e-mails.....the LONG hours at JB's office? From a legal standpoint.....if that were later confirmed....would that validate an appeal based upon ineffective counsel???
here are some of the confinement conditions:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-09/42181239.pdf

ETA: But I am sure the Judge can customize those conditions to fit the circumstances.

WholeLottaRosie
11-03-2009, 10:16 PM
IIRC, it was part of her bail conditions. I'll see if I can find them. They were discussed for sure.

That is what I recall as well. So, I am back to a question I have never seen answered. If so, if that is the restriction, can she sit in her lawyer's office and violate those restriction?

mom2chloe
11-03-2009, 10:17 PM
May I ask.......does anyone remember that KC was prohibited from using cell phone or internet while on home confinement?* I can't find proof, but I swear that was an issue.* If so....why did the batphone scenario even happen?* Was internet usage from the A house monitored?

IIRC, KC's bond stipulations prohibited the use of cell phone and internet usage...but now we know there were Bat phones, and we know that CA responded to certain internet messages regarding Caylee, allegedly under the pretense that CA would do anything to help find Caylee, much to KC's dismay.
IF the Bat phones were internet capable, KC would most certainly have access to the ZG's MS account, and consequently could have accessed it in a last ditch effort to create "reasonable doubt" or so she thought...time will soon tell. I can envision CA offering this up to KC in those final moments

...

JBean
11-03-2009, 10:17 PM
That is what I recall as well. So, I am back to a question I have never seen answered. If so, if that is the restriction, can she sit in her lawyer's office and violate those restriction?
I think she can use a phone for a limited amount of time.

Just Jayla
11-03-2009, 10:21 PM
That is an interesting observation - it would require KC to have known JB well ahead of time in order to create the page the day Caylee died and a month before CA reported her missing.

Ah yes, you are right-The southern Florida IP is when it was created then, not last accessed-My brain fart!

cecybeans
11-03-2009, 10:59 PM
Please let's not be hasty to box the Zenaida thing before we have more info. The travel times are simply an estimate and may not reflect the actual time KC had to access this page. We are only guessing.

I realize that internet and phone access was to be restricted but Tracy mentioned that she used the computer both at home and at JB's office. I'm assuming LE was fully aware of that and may have been monitoring both phone and internet usage. After all, it's not like they could trust the Anthony family to fully cooperate, since they were doing their best to corroborate her lies. I think they may have felt that it would be more fruitful to give her some space and surveillance.

The coincidence of a zenaida page being created several hours before Caylee disappears and being accessed several hours before KC is finally booked is simply too uncanny to be chance. It's either the scenario that Valhall and JWG have tracked or Caylee herself is pulling strings from the beyond (and I just prefer the more logical former alternative) because I just don't buy the odds that some Zenaida in South Florida was compelled to create an empty MySpace page with those precise time stamps.

I think this bears considering until we are absolutely sure it doesn't, and I'm not there yet, y'all.

mitzi
11-04-2009, 12:24 AM
I gotta tell ya, it's nice to hear I'm not sitting on this fence alone!

I think there's a few of us on that fence. :innocent:

Imbackon
11-04-2009, 12:58 AM
Ok, I tried to catch up, so I may have missed something.
The dynamic duo (Valhal and Jwg) are thinking there wasn't time due to travel right?
The log in time was 3:46 or something, and they had to get on the road by then?
I see 28 mph was used, but 4 sure, I NEVER drive that slow, unless maybe it's Holloween night and all the kids are out walking on the road I am on :)
So, what is the LATEST TIME they could have gotten in the car is my first question?
Are we sure someone didn't have a laptop with wi-fi or something?
Or, could cindy's phone be used? Do we know for sure cindy's phone could NOT have been used?
I have iphone and am logged on at any place, most anytime unless I am driving out in the boondocks or disrupted service for some reason like in some elevators, and big cement towers.
I can see KC telling CA she wants to check for any messages b4 turning herself in no problem. Even pretending to be doing some kind of MISSING CAYLEE work. Cindy would easily buy that one.

ETA, plus the time problem is the last login right? Remember the A's got passwords from KC. What's to say Lee didn't log into the site. Maybe he found the page himself and tried known passwords?

Harmony2
11-04-2009, 09:27 PM
May I ask.......does anyone remember that KC was prohibited from using cell phone or internet while on home confinement?* I can't find proof, but I swear that was an issue.* If so....why did the batphone scenario even happen?* Was internet usage from the A house monitored?

This is what Cindy said about Casey's phone and internet usage (MySpace/ Facebook) during that time:

(page 270 of Cindy's depo part 2)

Virtual Truth
11-04-2009, 09:46 PM
IIRC, the stop was made at the underpass where Narcossee goes under 417. According to Google Earth that is 8.8 miles, or 19 minutes drive using whatever assumptions the tool makes. Roughly 28 MPH.

So let's apply the credibility test.

CA and KC allegedly arranged the car switch so that KC can attempt to turn herself in without the media being there. I imagine things were a bit frantic and emotional those final minutes at the Anthony home.

Is it credible to believe that one of the very last things KC did in the home - perhaps the very last thing she did - was to login to the zenaida Myspace page? :waitasec:

Sorry, I haven't finished reading the thread yet, BUT I remember that KC and CA left from JB's Kissimee office and were on some road near the airport when pulled over by LE/FBI during the car switcharoo under the overpass as they were heading downtown to precinct. Local FOX captured the stop on camera. Remember, CA yelling at the camera-person that blonde reporter girl that CA liked would never again get an exclusive interview because they chased them and got it on camera. I am sure that FOX has the footage time-stamped somewhere in archieves.

Imbackon
11-04-2009, 10:06 PM
This is what Cindy said about Casey's phone and internet usage (MySpace/ Facebook) during that time:

(page 270 of Cindy's depo part 2)

please Jwg or Valhal, if you see this. Will you please outline for this simple girl what you think regarding the leave time from JB's office and why you think it is not possible for KC to have checked her secret myspace acct.
If this is not appropriate, please mod delete this ok.
I didn't want to send a private msg, cause I suspect others are wondering too as we have put much stock into what Jwg/Valhal have said about this subject.
If it's a dead issue, I just wanna know!

Valhall
11-04-2009, 11:30 PM
please Jwg or Valhal, if you see this. Will you please outline for this simple girl what you think regarding the leave time from JB's office and why you think it is not possible for KC to have checked her secret myspace acct.
If this is not appropriate, please mod delete this ok.
I didn't want to send a private msg, cause I suspect others are wondering too as we have put much stock into what Jwg/Valhal have said about this subject.
If it's a dead issue, I just wanna know!

I have to be honest and admit I have not done any checking to see the times associated with when KC left on the big OJ re-enactment, so I am unsure what times would and would not work.

I guess at this point it comes down to: 1. did panama make any kind of error in his analysis - I don't think he did. 2. when did KC leave with CA? It appears right now (without checking) that if the times given are correct, then it would mean the last thing KC did was run to a computer and log in to the zenaida myspace and then go to the car and leave.

That seems illogical.

cecybeans
11-04-2009, 11:36 PM
I have to be honest and admit I have not done any checking to see the times associated with when KC left on the big OJ re-enactment, so I am unsure what times would and would not work.

I guess at this point it comes down to: 1. did panama make any kind of error in his analysis - I don't think he did. 2. when did KC leave with CA? It appears right now (without checking) that if the times given are correct, then it would mean the last thing KC did was run to a computer and log in to the zenaida myspace and then go to the car and leave.

That seems illogical.

Not necessarily. If she created the page and was hoping LE would find it and it would somehow seem like her nanny alibi was real, she may have either wanted to see who may have "friended" zenaida, or she may have logged on thinking to change something or add detail and just did not have enough time before CA said get in the car we need to go, honey. CA may have gone to the bathroom and KC sneaked in for one last look. It was the only really important thing that might save her stupid Zanny story and I think it would have been more important to her than almost anything else at that point. It was her very last chance to even check.

magic-cat
11-04-2009, 11:54 PM
IIRC we found out recently, and I cannot for the life of me recall from where...yet...that the no phone no internet were Jose's conditions, and not the conditions of her bond/bail whatsoever...I may be wrong, but somewhere, perhaps when we were learning of the "bat phones" is what I am thinking, is when this info came out...??? Anyone else recall it?

Just Jayla
11-04-2009, 11:56 PM
I am sure with all of the hard work here, this has been attempted: KC can be searched out by looking her up by e-mail address in MySpace. Although it looks like it might not work out if she deleted her e-mail addresses, is it possible that the ZG space can be linked to any of KC's e-mail adresses that we know of? Or Thomas Franke's e-mail address?

ETA-I will try and see if I can find anything, but please someone stop me if this has already been tried!

cecybeans
11-04-2009, 11:59 PM
IIRC we found out recently, and I cannot for the life of me recall from where...yet...that the no phone no internet were Jose's conditions, and not the conditions of her bond/bail whatsoever...I may be wrong, but somewhere, perhaps when we were learning of the "bat phones" is what I am thinking, is when this info came out...??? Anyone else recall it?

Was that in Tracy M's testimony? She seemed to shed a lot of light on that kind of stuff. Or may Tony P told us when he visited. Maybe it's in his thread.

BondJamesBond
11-05-2009, 12:05 AM
IIRC, the stop was made at the underpass where Narcossee goes under 417. According to Google Earth that is 8.8 miles, or 19 minutes drive using whatever assumptions the tool makes. Roughly 28 MPH.
*snipped*

Every once in a while I get lucky...it is rare I get lucky twice in one day.

#1 Found the audio of Casey being placed under arrest 10/14 YouTube- Casey Anthony Arrest Audio October 14 2008

I never knew this existed and found it to be an interesting listen.

#2 At the close of the arrest LE gives the audible time of 4:22PM :)

So...
4:22PM - 10 minutes time of arrest recording until time given = 4:12PM
4:12PM - 19 minutes time of driving per JWG's info above = 3:53PM

Allowing some +/- for getting out of Baez's office and into the car, etc. this means Casey left Baez's office sometime < 3:53PM 10/14.

cecybeans
11-05-2009, 12:11 AM
Okay, and they went straight from the office (and did not stop by Hopespring for any reason), to OCSO (give or take fooling around and the 45 minute delay), correct?

Harmony2
11-05-2009, 12:19 AM
Not necessarily. If she created the page and was hoping LE would find it and it would somehow seem like her nanny alibi was real, she may have either wanted to see who may have "friended" zenaida, or she may have logged on thinking to change something or add detail and just did not have enough time before CA said get in the car we need to go, honey. CA may have gone to the bathroom and KC sneaked in for one last look. It was the only really important thing that might save her stupid Zanny story and I think it would have been more important to her than almost anything else at that point. It was her very last chance to even check.

Just like she created the fake Email from Universal events director, Thomas Franck, to make it seem like her job at Universal was real.

sleutherontheside
11-05-2009, 12:22 AM
I have been self instructing regarding website owners, IP, trace routes, and back links......after all I have seen here...is there any site that I could visit that could teach me more?????

sumbunny
11-05-2009, 12:24 AM
This means casey had 7 minutes at jose's office to access the zenaida page! woot!

I'm amazed at this thread :)

JWG
11-05-2009, 12:32 AM
*snipped*

Every once in a while I get lucky...it is rare I get lucky twice in one day.

#1 Found the audio of Casey being placed under arrest 10/14 YouTube- Casey Anthony Arrest Audio October 14 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9QOOE_lsys)

I never knew this existed and found it to be an interesting listen.

#2 At the close of the arrest LE gives the audible time of 4:22PM :)

So...
4:22PM - 10 minutes time of arrest recording until time given = 4:12PM
4:12PM - 19 minutes time of driving per JWG's info above = 3:53PM

Allowing some +/- for getting out of Baez's office and into the car, etc. this means Casey left Baez's office sometime < 3:53PM 10/14.

Bond, love having you here looking over our shoulders. :clap:

The drive time I gave above was from the Anthony home. Silly me ... looks like it was from Baez's office. :bang:

I assume it was from his Kissimmee office? :waitasec: It could have been a 17 minute drive, but we would need to know the route they took. :waitasec:

This gives KC possibly another two minutes flexibility in signing into the zenaida myspace, but I still need to ask ... why? She's about to leave for prison. If she is not prepared to announce to the world that the Myspace proves the existence of ZFG, and if she is not prepared to delete the site...why log in? :waitasec:

Amil
11-05-2009, 12:33 AM
*snipped*

Every once in a while I get lucky...it is rare I get lucky twice in one day.

#1 Found the audio of Casey being placed under arrest 10/14 YouTube- Casey Anthony Arrest Audio October 14 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9QOOE_lsys)

I never knew this existed and found it to be an interesting listen.

#2 At the close of the arrest LE gives the audible time of 4:22PM :)

So...
4:22PM - 10 minutes time of arrest recording until time given = 4:12PM
4:12PM - 19 minutes time of driving per JWG's info above = 3:53PM

Allowing some +/- for getting out of Baez's office and into the car, etc. this means Casey left Baez's office sometime < 3:53PM 10/14.
How do you like the red heart drawn on Cindy's window? KC is a spiteful b....!!!

cecybeans
11-05-2009, 12:51 AM
I'd bet that KC is a smug little narcissist that may have wanted to check her brilliant handiwork one more time just to make sure it was there for LE to discover (or DC if they needed a push) and she thought that they would somehow think that was substantive - that it would corroborate her Zenaida story. I think KC thinks anything that is on the internet is as good as real. I can totally see her checking it or maybe trying to add something at the last minute. After all, her entire story still depended on some mysterious Miami-nanny; she has never budged from that. Too bad she can't read all the stuff going on here or she might realize that the public isn't as gullible as her parents.

shellsbells
11-05-2009, 01:06 AM
If she is not prepared to announce to the world that the Myspace proves the existence of ZFG, and if she is not prepared to delete the site...why log in? :waitasec:

If you sign into your account on MySpace and then go to My Account and manage to find the Cancel Account option, that takes a few minutes, but (IIRC, and sorry if this has been discussed before) cancellation takes an email confirmation. So.. (oh god, pure speculation) is it possible she could have tried to cancel it, knowing the login email and password, but did not have enough time to log back into that (false) email address and confirm it?

Hmm, I don't know.. all I know is if this really is just a pure coincidence with this sign-up and last login then I just will not know what to believe in anymore.

panama
11-05-2009, 01:06 AM
Hey, does this help at all?
http://www.wftv.com/video/19108513/index.html

I think it's the same audio that Bond posted, but starts ~7 minutes earlier, before she gets in... Starts with: "Date is 10/14/08 4:05 pm. Eric Edwards, Dorothy ....., approaching the traffic stop where CK is in custody by our felony unit, we will have her in the car momentarily." (Then ~6-7 minutes pass until she gets in.) It's hard to say whether they have a visual of KC waiting for them at the beginning of the recording.

ETA: Just giving credit where it's due... I missed it before, but I just noticed that sarah7855 posted the above link a page or two ago. :)

BondJamesBond
11-05-2009, 01:33 AM
Hey, does this help at all?
http://www.wftv.com/video/19108513/index.html

I think it's the same audio that Bond posted, but starts ~7 minutes earlier, before she gets in... Starts with: "Date is 10/14/08 4:05 pm. Eric Edwards, Dorothy ....., approaching the traffic stop where CK is in custody by our felony unit, we will have her in the car momentarily." (Then ~6-7 minutes pass until she gets in.) It's hard to say whether they have a visual of KC waiting for them at the beginning of the recording.

That's even better, Panama.

4:22PM - 10mins = 4:12PM Start of the Youtube audio

4:05PM WFTV Traffic stop audio begins as LE is enroute to the stop site.

The WFTV audio synchs up perfectly w/ the Youtube audio @ the 7 minute mark and is 17 minutes long. So...Casey was stopped by the felony unit @ 4:05PM.

That starts backing things up further a few minutes and making it perhaps a little tighter for a last-minute MS jaunt before exiting JB's. Given JWG's comment above it would be worth another check of the drive time from JB's office to the overpass. Could also factor in that the evasive/wreckless driving prolly included exceeding the speed limit too...which would push things out a few minutes again...maybe a wash.

IMHO, the time analysis doesn't rule it (MS activity) out OR rule it in. It may seem like alot of effort w/o a payoff...but...NOT rulling it out is about as good as you could get under the circumstances...and I think that's where you are. Nice work! :thumb:

Imbackon
11-05-2009, 02:56 AM
Hey, this is 10 minute KC we are talking about.
She may have been planning on checking the site, but never got around to it until the last minute.
For what purpose dont know, other than some half baked idea of using this as a Zenaida alibi.
since we don't have defense documents yet, for all we know they plan on using this as proof of her existence still (at least until they google Casey, zenaida myspace).
Certainly even JB will probably figure out that this won't work for reasonable doubt? Nah

darnudes
11-05-2009, 02:59 AM
Bond, love having you here looking over our shoulders. :clap:

The drive time I gave above was from the Anthony home. Silly me ... looks like it was from Baez's office. :bang:

I assume it was from his Kissimmee office? :waitasec: It could have been a 17 minute drive, but we would need to know the route they took. :waitasec:

This gives KC possibly another two minutes flexibility in signing into the zenaida myspace, but I still need to ask ... why? She's about to leave for prison. If she is not prepared to announce to the world that the Myspace proves the existence of ZFG, and if she is not prepared to delete the site...why log in? :waitasec:


Not sure if this is a dumb question as I don't have myspace, but could she have been checking the page to see if anyone else on myspace had visited that profile?

Some sites allow you to see who has accessed your profile.

RR0004
11-05-2009, 03:32 AM
Not sure if this is a dumb question as I don't have myspace, but could she have been checking the page to see if anyone else on myspace had visited that profile?

Some sites allow you to see who has accessed your profile.
I wish somebody knew which website Lee had referenced and recently visited (in relation to the time of his SA interview) according to his depo. I personally think the "Lee knows what he's done" definitely has something to do with the computer. Just my gut talking...

treeseeker
11-05-2009, 05:31 AM
If this is KC's Zenaida page - maybe this last 10/14 check was to lead LE to the page?
Perhaps the whole idea was for LE to ask why this was so important that it was the last thing she did before being taken into custody. Like with Sawgrass and Universal, I think its possible KC was dropping "clues" for LE, but they weren't playing along.

Horace Finklestein
11-05-2009, 06:10 AM
If you sign into your account on MySpace and then go to My Account and manage to find the Cancel Account option, that takes a few minutes, but (IIRC, and sorry if this has been discussed before) cancellation takes an email confirmation. So.. (oh god, pure speculation) is it possible she could have tried to cancel it, knowing the login email and password, but did not have enough time to log back into that (false) email address and confirm it?

Hmm, I don't know.. all I know is if this really is just a pure coincidence with this sign-up and last login then I just will not know what to believe in anymore.

Well it's not as if Jose or the other Anthonys couldn't have deleted it.

TallyHo
11-05-2009, 08:17 AM
If this is KC's Zenaida page - maybe this last 10/14 check was to lead LE to the page?
Perhaps the whole idea was for LE to ask why this was so important that it was the last thing she did before being taken into custody. Like with Sawgrass and Universal, I think its possible KC was dropping "clues" for LE, but they weren't playing along.

I think this is entirely possible too. Remember when she was first arrested she kept complaining that the police had not listened to what she was saying. I think she had told them all those "clues" about Zenaida having ties to NewYork (TonE connection), PuertoRico(Ricardo, Amy, Troy connection), and Miami (possible ZG facebook connection) and she was getting aggravated that all of those "clues" weren't getting her out of LE's sights. Maybe she checked one more time right before she was arrested for murder to see if it looked like maybe they had finally found her ZG page.

RVA
11-05-2009, 12:15 PM
Hello everyone,

Longtime reader, first time poster. Just wanted to add in a thought about when Casey could have last checked her myspace.We are all going under the assumption that it was on a computer, right? Whats to say she didn't use a cell phone?:twocents:

Chiquita71
11-05-2009, 12:30 PM
Hello WS :)

Okay. If we are going with the "zanny" kidnapped Caylee story, we know that one of the excuses for why Casey(to this day)did not co-operate with LE and why she claims she was "ugly coping" was because she could not let anyone know what happened to Caylee as it was a part of the instructions.

I agree with WSers' who say this was Cindy's brainchild. It was in the jailhouse conversations, when Casey was not forthcoming with any information(that made any sense or would help find Caylee) that Cindy came up with this idea: that the only reason Casey would be acting like that was if the family, or Caylee was in danger. We understand, at that point there still was really no reason not to give whatever information she had, but Casey insisted there was nothing she could do from jail and says that she needs to be out of jail to help. Both Cindy and George say there is not anything they can do about that, but George suggests that he can get LE to listen to her she just needs to say the word.

Obviously Casey knows she has nothing to say, and the Anthony's are beginning their trip to denials-ville. We know Casey never speaks to LE again. This theory depends on the idea that Casey could not give up the information she knew or the family/Caylee would be in danger. WSers have already pointed out that Casey sent many text messages to many of her friends re: Caylee missing. That is one strike against this story. If danger was her worry, why did Casey send those emails? And for my own information can someone tell me when those emails were sent? Was it after Cindy confronted her and brought her home? I am assuming that but I have not read about that myself, I have only seen reference to this while reading the threads.

Here is what I have read myself, that shows the idea that Casey was following what Zanny told her to do is bunk re: not telling anyone that Caylee was "missing." Here we can see more of Cindy's inconsistencies(outright lies) because this information was given in the same visitation that Cindy decides Casey can't talk because of "danger."

E-mail from Lee Anthony
7/26/08
Subject: info that Casey provided to my parents and I during our visitation

Casey had said to me on July 15th that these were the people that were aware that Caylee was missing and were helping her to look for them(Jeff was doing so in Jacksonville, but Juliette was in Orlando up until a few days prior to July 15th, then she moved out of state somewhere). Casey says she was introduced to Zanny by Jeff as he has a son named Zachary(sp?)that Zanny was also a nanny for. I'm sure this may be old info but this is what came out of my parents convo w/Casey yesterday:

Zanny(Zenaida/Zenita)Fernandez-Gonzalez
26 years old
5'6 5'7, brown hair/eyes(wear's her hair straight but it is naturally curly) tan conplexion, 140lbs, no tattoos visible from a 2-piece bathing suit, Zanny's car seat is pink with a floral design.
Drives a 2008 silver Ford Focus purchased by Victor Fernandez(Zanny's step-father)Zanny's biological mother is Gloria Gonzalez, 55 yrs. old.
Zanny has a sister 1-2 years older than her named Samantha(not sure if last name is different).
Zanny's roommates up until a few months ago were Raquel Farrell that was a hostess at Fridays, and Jennifer Rosa that worked for ABC Distribution catalog here in Orlando. I believe this company just has a warehouse here in Orlando but headquarters in elsewhere in(Miami)?

Lee Anthony
(end)

Boy, that is alot of information for someone who was "afraid" to give information about the whereabouts of her daughter for fear of her family's safety. For fear of Caylee's safety. Also, we know that this story Cindy made up in her (sic) mind does not make sense in the light of Casey saying she spoke to Caylee on the 15th of July and she was fine and happy. It is Casey herself that goes back on this lie when in the jailhouse visitation she says she is worried about (paraphrased) "what Caylee might be going through."

IMHO

essies
11-05-2009, 12:37 PM
Hello everyone,

Longtime reader, first time poster. Just wanted to add in a thought about when Casey could have last checked her myspace.We are all going under the assumption that it was on a computer, right? Whats to say she didn't use a cell phone?:twocents:

I agree!! But, I wonder who did it (let's not assume it was necessarily KC) and whose phone may have been used(lets not assume it was necessarily KC's)!!:waitasec:
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo165/petrifiedsprings/Welcome_03.jpg

RR0004
11-05-2009, 12:53 PM
If this is KC's Zenaida page - maybe this last 10/14 check was to lead LE to the page?
Perhaps the whole idea was for LE to ask why this was so important that it was the last thing she did before being taken into custody. Like with Sawgrass and Universal, I think its possible KC was dropping "clues" for LE, but they weren't playing along.
Well, it's in line with her asserting she was giving them info but they just weren't "listening". I've read the early interviews...it doesn't seem to me that she gave them much of anything. Could there be more somewhere? As she wasn't under arrest yet, would LE still have been able to tape the conversations in the car when they were driving around (like they did after picking her up on the day of her arrest for murder) searching for Zanny?

RR0004
11-05-2009, 12:54 PM
I think this is entirely possible too. Remember when she was first arrested she kept complaining that the police had not listened to what she was saying. I think she had told them all those "clues" about Zenaida having ties to NewYork (TonE connection), PuertoRico(Ricardo, Amy, Troy connection), and Miami (possible ZG facebook connection) and she was getting aggravated that all of those "clues" weren't getting her out of LE's sights. Maybe she checked one more time right before she was arrested for murder to see if it looked like maybe they had finally found her ZG page.
Oops...sorry Tally...didn't see your post.

Chiquita71
11-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Hello WS :)

Cindy Anthony's interview with FBI

CA: Um, so...(sigh)Zanny to me can be referred to as the person watching Caylee.
(skip)
CA: Casey said from the beginning that Zanny was from New York. She then had a Fort Lauderdale connection, she has a Ft. Lauderdale phone number at one. Um, that there was New Jersey connections, there's New Jersey um, people by this name. So, I'm just saying there are people out there. Just because they didn't find someone right now with this. And Casey had told me over the last three years that Zanny had moved at least three different times that I was aware of.
LE: Okay
CA: Okay. I was actually the one that gave the police um, the last known number that, address in case I ever needed to go pick Caylee up, out of my address book.
(skip)
CA: And I walked it out and said, I just go this out of my address book, try this one.
(skip)
CA: Bottom line is the tie with that three...two three two Glenwood Ave. That's the address of the person that I think has something to do with...that's all part of this.
(skip)
CA: So, again if Casey couldn't...did not want to take them directly and they knew that she had them right then and there or something. I don't know, I don't know all of Casey's reasoning all I know is what I'm piecing together and I think could be some excellent leads to go on 'cause its making sense. And if you guys, if it doesn't pan out that's fine. I just want to help in anyway that...you guys may start thinking about when I start going into this, it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

I wonder what address/phone number Cindy had for Zanny? And, can anyone tell me who is at the Glenwood address that Cindy was throwing under the bus? TIA.

ETA: BTW what you are sleuthing re: the myspace page is very interesting to me and I am just following along with that one, thank you.

:cow:

LambChop
11-05-2009, 01:13 PM
In her latest depo for SA CA stated she had given a telephone number on a sticky she had taken out of her address book and given it to a black police officer who was at the house the night they reported Caylee missing, I believe. Never said she gave him an address. The Glenwood address is for RM.

TakeNote
11-05-2009, 01:17 PM
*snipped*

Every once in a while I get lucky...it is rare I get lucky twice in one day.

#1 Found the audio of Casey being placed under arrest 10/14 YouTube- Casey Anthony Arrest Audio October 14 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9QOOE_lsys)

I never knew this existed and found it to be an interesting listen.

#2 At the close of the arrest LE gives the audible time of 4:22PM :)

So...
4:22PM - 10 minutes time of arrest recording until time given = 4:12PM
4:12PM - 19 minutes time of driving per JWG's info above = 3:53PM

Allowing some +/- for getting out of Baez's office and into the car, etc. this means Casey left Baez's office sometime < 3:53PM 10/14.

im catching up here again.....thanks for the link to the video....i just wanted to say.....everytime i see a heart now...i cringe......there is a big fat red heart on the drivers side window......uggg

KC is also looking down .....maybe using her phone?.....in the pic on the video

sarah7855
11-05-2009, 01:33 PM
Assuming that Casey was the one accessing this page, I'm wondering if the "why?" question can be answered in the simplest way possible. Perhaps she had just received word that the GJ had indicted, and she freaked, knowing she'd be going to jail w/o the possibility of bond, and logged in to try and delete the page, but just didn't have the time. Cindy showed up to Baez's office and she had to leave. :waitasec:

Dear Santa-I think we've all been very, very good this year. May we please have the IP info for this darned Myspace? pretty please? :angel:

Valhall
11-05-2009, 02:39 PM
So...we might be headed back up on this roller coaster?

lol - MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP!

I don't know what to think anymore. Another part of me says they would have this in the ISP logs and therefore it is a quick - yes/no which didn't depend on any subpoena of myspace, etc. as far as the creation date. I mean, the URL of the myspace should be in the ISP logs, correct?

I think I fell off the rollercoaster at the bottom - I'm still thinking this has been a tremendous wild goose chase I put you people through.

*sigh*

*poopie pants dance*

Valhall
11-05-2009, 02:45 PM
I am sure with all of the hard work here, this has been attempted: KC can be searched out by looking her up by e-mail address in MySpace. Although it looks like it might not work out if she deleted her e-mail addresses, is it possible that the ZG space can be linked to any of KC's e-mail adresses that we know of? Or Thomas Franke's e-mail address?

ETA-I will try and see if I can find anything, but please someone stop me if this has already been tried!

I have tried for many hours to hit against an email account associated with the zenaida myspace. No luck so far.

The Eunice Burns
11-05-2009, 02:51 PM
So...we might be headed back up on this roller coaster?

lol - MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP!

I don't know what to think anymore. Another part of me says they would have this in the ISP logs and therefore it is a quick - yes/no which didn't depend on any subpoena of myspace, etc. as far as the creation date. I mean, the URL of the myspace should be in the ISP logs, correct?

I think I fell off the rollercoaster at the bottom - I'm still thinking this has been a tremendous wild goose chase I put you people through.

*sigh*

*poopie pants dance*

Val, this is not a wild goose chase. I understand your frustration, b/c when I peeked in here a few days ago, and saw the latest.....I thought *NO! I can't take another wild ride!* I so want this to be true, as do we all. But, IMO, you haven't led us on a wild goose chase. We learned a lot along the way, and.........who knows what might come of this? Other things could be at work that may be preventing this to be fully and completely understood at this time. Or it may be the biggest coincidence that we encounter in our lives. Either way, I appreciate all you have done. Stick w/ us kid, and don't give up. :)

april_showers
11-05-2009, 03:25 PM
I agree!! But, I wonder who did it (let's not assume it was necessarily KC) and whose phone may have been used(lets not assume it was necessarily KC's)!!:waitasec:



So if I were to create a myspace from a smartphone, how would this affect the IP address associated with it? Are phone browser IPs configured the same way as computer IPs? For instance, if I live in New York-- and I have my cell service through an NYC based carrier -- but decided to make a myspace page while travelling through, say, North Carolina, what IP address would show up? What if I were using my 3G instead of any local available network? Wouldn't the IP of my phone in NY show up instead of a local address?

So, what if I were using my 3G connection on a Smartphone (perhaps a blackberry...) with a Miami number, even if I were sitting at my parent's house in Orlando? Would it not show up as a Miami address?

Apologies if this question has already been answered, as I am still playing catch up. It's somethnig I was wondering about earlier in this discussion, but dropped it once the Zanni myspace theory was (temporarily) debunked. I am not quite the most tech savvy person here. Can anyone help?? Anyone?? :)

Horace Finklestein
11-05-2009, 04:00 PM
So...we might be headed back up on this roller coaster?

lol - MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP!

I don't know what to think anymore. Another part of me says they would have this in the ISP logs and therefore it is a quick - yes/no which didn't depend on any subpoena of myspace, etc. as far as the creation date. I mean, the URL of the myspace should be in the ISP logs, correct?

I think I fell off the rollercoaster at the bottom - I'm still thinking this has been a tremendous wild goose chase I put you people through.

*sigh*

*poopie pants dance*

Ugh I agree. I'm SO ready for this to be over with...why is this not pleaded out or at trial already???

cecybeans
11-05-2009, 04:16 PM
I have tried for many hours to hit against an email account associated with the zenaida myspace. No luck so far.

LE might have taken everything off line to preserve contaminating it with further activity - or attempts to change things if someone was so inclined.

Valhall
11-05-2009, 05:51 PM
Nah, I mean since August I've been trying.

lol

Not just recently.

darnudes
11-05-2009, 06:03 PM
Just a thought, It seems some people can find it very difficult to delete their myspace accounts. I was doing some research on myspace deletion and viewing private pages and came across this:

I have been trying to delete my Myspace account for the past month. I probably tried the process a total of 6 times. The problem is, I would never receive the confirmation to delete the account in my email. Solution, I changed my email from a Gmail to Yahoo account. I did the account deletion again, and immediately in my Yahoo account was the deletion confirmation.

Maybe Casey had the same problems and didn't have enough time to get rid of the account?

Also, I wonder if Casey had a myspace tracker? This allows you to see who is looking at your profile.

RR0004
11-05-2009, 06:05 PM
So...we might be headed back up on this roller coaster?

lol - MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP!

I don't know what to think anymore. Another part of me says they would have this in the ISP logs and therefore it is a quick - yes/no which didn't depend on any subpoena of myspace, etc. as far as the creation date. I mean, the URL of the myspace should be in the ISP logs, correct?

I think I fell off the rollercoaster at the bottom - I'm still thinking this has been a tremendous wild goose chase I put you people through.

*sigh*

*poopie pants dance*
You are so very much appreciated.

oxoxoxo

cecybeans
11-05-2009, 06:13 PM
Nah, I mean since August I've been trying.

lol

Not just recently.

Hmm, was that before or after you "alerted the troops"?

TakeNote
11-05-2009, 07:18 PM
So...we might be headed back up on this roller coaster?

lol - MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP!

I don't know what to think anymore. Another part of me says they would have this in the ISP logs and therefore it is a quick - yes/no which didn't depend on any subpoena of myspace, etc. as far as the creation date. I mean, the URL of the myspace should be in the ISP logs, correct?

I think I fell off the rollercoaster at the bottom - I'm still thinking this has been a tremendous wild goose chase I put you people through.

*sigh*

*poopie pants dance*


all i can say is....weeeeeeeeeeeee http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o140/SeattleSAR/th_rollercoaster.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/image/rollercoaster/SeattleSAR/rollercoaster.gif?o=80) with hands in the air wouldnt want to be on the ride with out ya!!!!

Valhall
11-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Hmm, was that before or after you "alerted the troops"?

Started before. Probably about a week or two before. Then kept on trying on and off for a couple of weeks afterwards.

That's when I was able to confirm for sure that not only is "zenaida" the display name, but it is also the REAL name of the account.

Valhall
11-05-2009, 07:34 PM
all i can say is....weeeeeeeeeeeee http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o140/SeattleSAR/th_rollercoaster.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/image/rollercoaster/SeattleSAR/rollercoaster.gif?o=80) with hands in the air wouldnt want to be on the ride with out ya!!!!


hahaha! I LOVE IT!

Just Jayla
11-05-2009, 09:03 PM
I have tried for many hours to hit against an email account associated with the zenaida myspace. No luck so far.

Thx, no luck here, either when I tried last night-no hit on Tom F., either. Maybe she used CA's e-mail address at Gentiva-If she had CA's password, KC could have deleted the confirmation from CA's e-mail in a hot minute (especially if she coulc jump right on a preconfigured Outlook e-mail).

Back to work, waiting on a new batch of docs!

essies
11-05-2009, 09:17 PM
How many of KC's imaginary people had e-mail accts. or myspaces?

Just Jayla
11-05-2009, 09:33 PM
How many of KC's imaginary people had e-mail accts. or myspaces?

That's what I'd like to know....if we had e-mail addresses, we could hit back to the ZG MySpace.

ETA-But I believe the e-mail account still has to be active for the MySpace page to still be active....

essies
11-05-2009, 09:56 PM
Where the computers (laptop and PC) given back to G&C after being taken in by LE?

Just Jayla
11-05-2009, 10:04 PM
I believe the PC was, because earlier this year when LE had to force CA/GA to hand over documents, I believe BC made some excuse about not be able to access the docs because their computer was giving them trouble.
Hope I'm not way off on that one, dunno about the laptop.

cecybeans
11-05-2009, 10:15 PM
Started before. Probably about a week or two before. Then kept on trying on and off for a couple of weeks afterwards.

That's when I was able to confirm for sure that not only is "zenaida" the display name, but it is also the REAL name of the account.

Anybody in LE worth their salt is probably looking in here at certain threads. They may have discovered your work before you brought it to them. I'm sure hoping they did. The more I think about it the more this would blast things right open. Well, you guys are not lacking for cheerleaders, that's for sure. We'll all be sending Check This Out! vibes to LE.

JWG
11-05-2009, 10:16 PM
I believe the PC was, because earlier this year when LE had to force CA/GA to hand over documents, I believe BC made some excuse about not be able to access the docs because their computer was giving them trouble.
Hope I'm not way off on that one, dunno about the laptop.

I have not seen a property sheet that says they were returned, but I believe they were. LE only needs to duplicate the hard drive and any flash drives and CDs they collect in order to gather the evidence they need. Once done they can return them.

IIRC, the Dec 11 or 19 search warrant asked to seize the computers once again, but either the judge or LE redacted the request. This implies to me that the computers were back with the Anthony's before December, 2008.

Just Jayla
11-05-2009, 10:17 PM
Anybody in LE worth their salt is probably looking in here at certain threads. They may have discovered your work before you brought it to them. I'm sure hoping they did. The more I think about it the more this would blast things right open. Well, you guys are not lacking for cheerleaders, that's for sure. We'll all be sending Check This Out! vibes to LE.

Yep, I think LE busted WS busting KC.....

essies
11-05-2009, 10:32 PM
Is there a way to "bug" someone's computer to moniter it's activity? Maybe that's why they didn't take it in Dec.?

JWG
11-05-2009, 11:15 PM
Is there a way to "bug" someone's computer to moniter it's activity? Maybe that's why they didn't take it in Dec.?

I think they would need a warrant to do that, and we have not seen such a warrant. On top of that, the original search warrant in December asked for the computers, indicating to me that they felt something useful might have been collected since July 15.

sleutherontheside
11-05-2009, 11:27 PM
I think they would need a warrant to do that, and we have not seen such a warrant. On top of that, the original search warrant in December asked for the computers, indicating to me that they felt something useful might have been collected since July 15.

Was there not discussion early on about the phones being bugged, hence the batphones? Did the As use dial up or phone for their computer access? If so, perhaps it was covered in a wiretap warrant? Also...if they were using wireless, could that not have been intercepted??

cecybeans
11-05-2009, 11:49 PM
I think they would need a warrant to do that, and we have not seen such a warrant. On top of that, the original search warrant in December asked for the computers, indicating to me that they felt something useful might have been collected since July 15.

A warrant in an ongoing investigation would not have been in discovery yet. In addition, if such a warrant were a separate investigation into the activities of GA and CA, it wouldn't be part of this case, I'd think.

christee
11-06-2009, 12:26 AM
Hello WS :)

Cindy Anthony's interview with FBI

CA: Um, so...(sigh)Zanny to me can be referred to as the person watching Caylee.
(skip)
CA: Casey said from the beginning that Zanny was from New York. She then had a Fort Lauderdale connection, she has a Ft. Lauderdale phone number at one. Um, that there was New Jersey connections, there's New Jersey um, people by this name. So, I'm just saying there are people out there. Just because they didn't find someone right now with this. And Casey had told me over the last three years that Zanny had moved at least three different times that I was aware of.
LE: Okay
CA: Okay. I was actually the one that gave the police um, the last known number that, address in case I ever needed to go pick Caylee up, out of my address book.
(skip)
CA: And I walked it out and said, I just go this out of my address book, try this one.
(skip)
CA: Bottom line is the tie with that three...two three two Glenwood Ave. That's the address of the person that I think has something to do with...that's all part of this.
(skip)
CA: So, again if Casey couldn't...did not want to take them directly and they knew that she had them right then and there or something. I don't know, I don't know all of Casey's reasoning all I know is what I'm piecing together and I think could be some excellent leads to go on 'cause its making sense. And if you guys, if it doesn't pan out that's fine. I just want to help in anyway that...you guys may start thinking about when I start going into this, it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

I wonder what address/phone number Cindy had for Zanny? And, can anyone tell me who is at the Glenwood address that Cindy was throwing under the bus? TIA.
ETA: BTW what you are sleuthing re: the myspace page is very interesting to me and I am just following along with that one, thank you.

:cow:
BBM
232 (north) Glenwood Ave is JPC's address:

pg 6
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/03/04/sanctions.pdf

chefmom
11-06-2009, 01:59 AM
Val, this is not a wild goose chase. I understand your frustration, b/c when I peeked in here a few days ago, and saw the latest.....I thought *NO! I can't take another wild ride!* I so want this to be true, as do we all. But, IMO, you haven't led us on a wild goose chase. We learned a lot along the way, and.........who knows what might come of this? Other things could be at work that may be preventing this to be fully and completely understood at this time. Or it may be the biggest coincidence that we encounter in our lives. Either way, I appreciate all you have done. Stick w/ us kid, and don't give up. :)

BBM

Ok, see, this is what I don't get. If this is just a coincidence, and the ZG at Sawgrass was just a coincidence, and the Z and the F and the G houses were just a coincidence, and the address was just a coincidence, and on and on and on...... How many coincidences can one case possibly have? I can see one, even two, but not one after another after another. At some point the idea of so many coincidences strains credulity. JMO.

sarah7855
11-06-2009, 08:36 AM
That's what I'd like to know....if we had e-mail addresses, we could hit back to the ZG MySpace.

ETA-But I believe the e-mail account still has to be active for the MySpace page to still be active....

FWIW, the email address you used to sign up for a particular myspace page does NOT have to be active for the page itself to be active. At least with Profile 1.0, I think that's what you all were calling the "original" version of myspace profiles, which this Zenaida page is. My fiancee had a page that he used for a long time after the Hotmail account he used to sign up for it had become inactive from not using it.

sarah7855
11-06-2009, 08:38 AM
BBM

Ok, see, this is what I don't get. If this is just a coincidence, and the ZG at Sawgrass was just a coincidence, and the Z and the F and the G houses were just a coincidence, and the address was just a coincidence, and on and on and on...... How many coincidences can one case possibly have? I can see one, even two, but not one after another after another. At some point the idea of so many coincidences strains credulity. JMO.

:clap: I might be willing to accept some of the other stuff as coincidences, but not this. Just not this one, there's too many similarities for it not to be Casey. Just too many.

ExpectingUnicorns
11-06-2009, 09:19 AM
BBM

Ok, see, this is what I don't get. If this is just a coincidence, and the ZG at Sawgrass was just a coincidence, and the Z and the F and the G houses were just a coincidence, and the address was just a coincidence, and on and on and on...... How many coincidences can one case possibly have? I can see one, even two, but not one after another after another. At some point the idea of so many coincidences strains credulity. JMO.
I keep thinking someone should make a thread to list all of the coincidences and the probability of having soooo many in just one case. (Maybe we are seeing so many simply because we are privy to so much information? I don't know.) :waitasec:

Intermezzo
11-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Hello WS :)

Cindy Anthony's interview with FBI

CA: Um, so...(sigh)Zanny to me can be referred to as the person watching Caylee.
(skip)
CA: Casey said from the beginning that Zanny was from New York. She then had a Fort Lauderdale connection, she has a Ft. Lauderdale phone number at one. Um, that there was New Jersey connections, there's New Jersey um, people by this name. So, I'm just saying there are people out there. Just because they didn't find someone right now with this. And Casey had told me over the last three years that Zanny had moved at least three different times that I was aware of.
LE: Okay
CA: Okay. I was actually the one that gave the police um, the last known number that, address in case I ever needed to go pick Caylee up, out of my address book.
(skip)
CA: And I walked it out and said, I just go this out of my address book, try this one.
(skip)
CA: Bottom line is the tie with that three...two three two Glenwood Ave. That's the address of the person that I think has something to do with...that's all part of this.
(skip)
CA: So, again if Casey couldn't...did not want to take them directly and they knew that she had them right then and there or something. I don't know, I don't know all of Casey's reasoning all I know is what I'm piecing together and I think could be some excellent leads to go on 'cause its making sense. And if you guys, if it doesn't pan out that's fine. I just want to help in anyway that...you guys may start thinking about when I start going into this, it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

I wonder what address/phone number Cindy had for Zanny? And, can anyone tell me who is at the Glenwood address that Cindy was throwing under the bus? TIA.

ETA: BTW what you are sleuthing re: the myspace page is very interesting to me and I am just following along with that one, thank you.

:cow:

Hi
CA stated that she had an address "in case she ever had to go pick up Caylee herself"...So why didn't she go?
:waitasec:Because when she called that phone number she realized it wasn't correct...now I must go look for the thread were that conversation was going on...

The Eunice Burns
11-06-2009, 01:03 PM
BBM

Ok, see, this is what I don't get. If this is just a coincidence, and the ZG at Sawgrass was just a coincidence, and the Z and the F and the G houses were just a coincidence, and the address was just a coincidence, and on and on and on...... How many coincidences can one case possibly have? I can see one, even two, but not one after another after another. At some point the idea of so many coincidences strains credulity. JMO.

I agree w/ you, chefmom. That is why, IMO, this isn't a wild goose chase. A wild ride, maybe, but not a goose chase. LOL

I am strongly leaning towards other factors at play that are preventing this from being completely nailed down here, in this forum. How that has been accomplished, I can't begin to fathom. I'm not techie inclined in any way. I compare my computer and tech skills on a level of knowing where to put gas in a car and air in tires. So, I am in awe of the amazing sleuthing that has been done and is still being done here. I am such a lightweight! But, I wouldn't miss the "ride" for anything!

cloud
11-10-2009, 09:08 AM
Hi everyone,

I haven't been posting much lately, but I've followed Caylee's case from the very beginning, when I saw a news item about a mom whose 2 year old daughter was missing for a month, but failed to report her as such because she was "using her own means" (words to that effect) to find her. That in itself was all it took to realise that this wasn't a "kidnapping", at least not in my thinking.

I am Australian and I'm honestly in a quanrdy about this "Tot Mom" play based on this tragic story. On one hand, it should be told. On the other, it shouldn't be used as "entertainment". I suppose the closest example is the story of Lindy Chamberlain.

But that's not why I'm posting - it's just by-the-way...

I personally believe that Casey Anthony is responsible for Caylee's death and disposal of her body. I also believe that she was pressured into a situation that she couldn't cope with. But that wasn't Caylee's fault. "Big Trouble In Little Packages"..... I believe that's totally indicative of how Casey felt at the time. It's a tragedy that she had to resort to what she did (or what I believe she did), to get out and party and not have to worry about a child - even her own.

I believe Cindy Anthony tried to teach her a hard lesson, that you have to pony up to responsibilities, or else. I believe Casey chose the "else".

IMO, if young women or men end up giving life to a child, and if they're not ready for that to happen, the wisest choice is for the child to be gifted to a family who will love, care for and cherish them. I believe this whole tragedy could have been avoided if Caylee would have been adopted out of the family, or at least if the boss Cindy could have been a mother and grandmother instead of tyrant.

I've been lucky - to me, my whole family is about unconditional love. When you have a baby to look after and love and cherish, that should have been first and foremost and selfless.

Instead, Cindy wanted to somehow "punish" Casey for having a child when she wasn't supposed to get pregnant at all, because, in Cindy's words, "she'd have to have sex to be pregnant" (words to that effect).

Well, I don't think it was immaculate conception, but I stand to be corrected.

Bottom line..... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I've no idea what Cindy went through in her life, and if it was hard going, I'm sorry for her.

But nothing excuses visiting your own visions of whatever ideal or grief on young people who are far from understanding what you're on about, or - on the other hand, are so tired of being told what is right and what is wrong that they just don't care anymore.

In saying this, I'm not trying to defend Casey - not at all. IMO, she killed Caylee because she wanted her boyfriends and parties and her little daughter got in the way. I just don't think Cindy helped her along the way much at all. Now she's sporting her and trying to make her look like a saint. In my humble opinion, it's too little and very much too late.

Just my humble opinion.

cloud
11-10-2009, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by one_hooah_wife View Post

[.... RESPECTFULLY SNIPPED FOR BREVITY......]


KC isn't lying...the last person she saw Caylee with was Zenaida Gonzalez.

Perfect. One and the same :)

JMHO

cianne
11-19-2009, 12:23 AM
Understood, but we were just talking about how LA/KC could have gotten it to bluescreen on purpose.

For whatever this might help with ... I couldn't figure out how to do it either, but while trying to find a solution for my computer acting up tonight, I came across this (http://www.falsesecurity.net/falsesecurity/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64) and thought of this discussion from a few weeks back. It sounds like deliberately getting the vile BSOD if you need it (although why most people would need it is beyond me) is a matter of hitting two keys - certainly something you could pull off under duress.

I'm not about to test it myself for authenticity, but assuming it works, maybe LA and/or KC knew the trick?

Bittiness39
11-19-2009, 12:36 AM
yes and no. I believe for the most part that CA and GA were the babysitters...along with various friends she conned into watching Caylee. By yes, I think she was referring to herself, KC, in interviews about ZFG. However, I have come to believe by reading much of the evidence that it is entirely likely KC drugged Caylee on multiple ocassions when her parents could not or were not able to watch Caylee. So it is IMO she was referring to herself in the interviews when it comes to the phantom nanny. Whether or not it was an accident is anyone's rightful guess...at this point. Until we get more evidence.

ZsaZsa
11-19-2009, 12:38 AM
yes and no. I believe for the most part that CA and GA were the babysitters...along with various friends she conned into watching Caylee. By yes, I think she was referring to herself, KC, in interviews about ZFG. However, I have come to believe by reading much of the evidence that it is entirely likely KC drugged Caylee on multiple ocassions when her parents could not or were not able to watch Caylee. So it is IMO she was referring to herself in the interviews when it comes to the phantom nanny. Whether or not it was an accident is anyone's rightful guess...at this point. Until we get more evidence.

I think she had 'that child' drugged in the car a lot of times while she was out partying. Poor little bugger diidn't stand a chance.

Bittiness39
11-19-2009, 12:42 AM
I think she had 'that child' drugged in the car a lot of times while she was out partying. Poor little bugger diidn't stand a chance.

ITA. Very sad. Too personal for me to go into but very sad. I just hope that Caylee's last day with CA was awesome. That is all we can hope for.

My own opinion is that KC fashioned and framed a target for her fictious nanny. Same with the false email she sent to herself from "work" to prove to her parents that she worked there. JMO.

ZsaZsa
11-19-2009, 12:59 AM
ITA. Very sad. Too personal for me to go into but very sad. I just hope that Caylee's last day with CA was awesome. That is all we can hope for.

My own opinion is that KC fashioned and framed a target for her fictious nanny. Same with the false email she sent to herself from "work" to prove to her parents that she worked there. JMO.

Yes, the work email- Oh poor Casey- so cunning, but so dumb. :innocent:

darnudes
12-20-2009, 04:16 AM
So...we might be headed back up on this roller coaster?

lol - MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP!

I don't know what to think anymore. Another part of me says they would have this in the ISP logs and therefore it is a quick - yes/no which didn't depend on any subpoena of myspace, etc. as far as the creation date. I mean, the URL of the myspace should be in the ISP logs, correct?

I think I fell off the rollercoaster at the bottom - I'm still thinking this has been a tremendous wild goose chase I put you people through.

*sigh*

*poopie pants dance*

Are we headed up again Valhall? :)

Just caught the posts on your hinky page that the "Zenaida" myspace account has been logged into and someone is accepting friends.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=267&cpage=1#comment-2897

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

I'm trying to wrap my head around this and figure out what this means.

Valhall
12-20-2009, 09:47 AM
Are we headed up again Valhall? :)

Just caught the posts on your hinky page that the "Zenaida" myspace account has been logged into and someone is accepting friends.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389838213

I'm trying to wrap my head around this and figure out what this means.

Hi darnudes,

I would not think this is heading up in our typical up/down rollercoaster. It's either that we just pulled into the off-load ramp because this definitely is NOT connected with Caylee's murder, OR, we're going through a vertical loop because some one hacked the account.

Valhall
12-20-2009, 10:17 AM
P.S. But whichever it is...alls I know is you guys rock! That's for sure. There was a collective peeling of this banana. lmao

The World According
12-20-2009, 10:32 AM
Hi darnudes,

I would not think this is heading up in our typical up/down rollercoaster. It's either that we just pulled into the off-load ramp because this definitely is NOT connected with Caylee's murder, OR, we're going through a vertical loop because some one hacked the account.

Hi Val, we all love your work!

I just discovered your excellent, very bright work on your blog, and love this about Joy She has quite a history.:"5/31/98 – Fraudulent use of credit cards – adjudicated guilty
- Expired or revoked credit cards – adjudication withheld
- theft, obtaining credit cards through fraudulent means – reduced to theft – adjudication withheld
7/5/98 - trespassing – adjudicated guilty
7/7/98 - trespassing – adjudicated guilty
7/8/98 - trespassing – adjudicated guilty
9/4/98 - Battery – adjudicated guilty
- Battery – adjudicated guilty
9/26/98 – Burglary – reduced to criminal mischief – adjudicated guilty
10/07/98- criminal mischief – adjudicated guilty
10/20/98- charged with criminal mischief – disposition unknown
- trespassing – adjudicated guilty
- theft – adjudicated guilty
11/13/98- theft – adjudicated guilty

She seems to have settled down for almost a year after this. Maybe someone back in her past who actually cared about her got her some help. But a year was all she could make.

11/22/99- breach of peace, disorderly conduct – adjudicated guilty
- battery – adjudicated guilty
- obstructing justice, resisting officer – adjudicated guilty

After that she had about a year and a half that she laid low and stayed out of trouble (as far as law enforcement could tell). But then, in 2001, she rose to the surface (or sank to the bottom) again.

7/17/01 - retail theft – adjudicated guilty
10/8/01 - stalking – dropped/abandoned
11/6/01 - violation of a protective order, domestic violence – adjudicated guilty

Star witness for the defense?" I wouldn't put it past Joy to try to hack in to anything. LOL!!! I suspect she posts many places under fake names.

Valhall
12-20-2009, 10:47 AM
I think Joy Wray is too busy putting her daughter in humiliating youtubes to get "learned up" on how to hack into a myspace.

I'll leave it at that so that I don't get time out.

The World According
12-20-2009, 11:29 AM
I know Val, I was trying to make you laugh!

cecybeans
12-20-2009, 12:34 PM
Hi darnudes,

I would not think this is heading up in our typical up/down rollercoaster. It's either that we just pulled into the off-load ramp because this definitely is NOT connected with Caylee's murder, OR, we're going through a vertical loop because some one hacked the account.

Well, it's a slim possibility, but perhaps "someone" in the family was reading here and realized it was a loose end and got a message to KC, who gave them the password. Or they figured it out. Not that smart a move, especially if LE still has it on the radar. I should think that a typical hacker would not care to open the account to friends (unless LE was wondering who else might be interested).

Beatrice
12-20-2009, 02:39 PM
Do I have this right?

Casey was stopped by LE while driving with Amy to Tampa....
and she used the ID of a Zenaida Gonzalez?????

:waitasec:

Valhall
12-20-2009, 06:02 PM
Do I have this right?

Casey was stopped by LE while driving with Amy to Tampa....
and she used the ID of a Zenaida Gonzalez?????

:waitasec:

I don't know that that's correct, Beatrice. As of this date, it appears there is no connection to the "ZG22" who received a traffic ticket on the same day AD did in 2008 and Casey.

Blaise
12-20-2009, 06:54 PM
* Note that Richard H. has solved the case on his blog, to include gettin' his happy azz (hey! he said it. Not me.) over to the courthouse and having them pull the records.

* I refuse to click on the clickable 'happy azz' link in the aforementioned link.

* Okay, I lied.

Blaise

Just Jayla
12-20-2009, 07:10 PM
If one of KC's team did go in to change the date (on no! the last date is 10/14, quick someone fix that!) then LE will be able to track that back fairly easily.
We have lots of screen shots here, too, of the 10/14/08 access date, and I would think MySpace could produce an activity log, so I am ever more curious to see where this leads.
Why would LE be acessing it yesterday, on a Saturday, as opposed to the weekdays? I know they work on weekends for high priority cases, but KC is near trial now, would LE still be working this stuff on the weekend? LDB? Maybe the weekend is all the time they have in their very busy schedules...

Valhall
12-20-2009, 07:29 PM
* Note that Richard H. has solved the case on his blog, to include gettin' his happy azz (hey! he said it. Not me.) over to the courthouse and having them pull the records.

* I refuse to click on the clickable 'happy azz' link in the aforementioned link.

* Okay, I lied.

Blaise

I think what impresses me the most is he admits he spent his "in-hi-demand" lawyering time reading 25 pages of this thread and still didn't comprehend what he was reading.

I really don't think he could screw it up any worse than he did.

cecybeans
12-20-2009, 08:48 PM
I think what impresses me the most is he admits he spent his "in-hi-demand" lawyering time reading 25 pages of this thread and still didn't comprehend what he was reading.

I really don't think he could screw it up any worse than he did.

You're right, that is impressive. Getting a headache over reading 25 pages might be detrimental to that particular occupation.

What is more troubling is the "if KC didn't get a traffic ticket then the MySpace page doesn't exist" kind of conclusion at the end. Although that may be defense-attorney logic. If that's true, then CA should be looking at a new career because Toddler Sees White Dog = Zanny Exists reasoning is right up her alley.

Imbackon
12-20-2009, 09:42 PM
So, is anyone notifying LE about the update?
I don't see how else this can be resolved without doing so.

rhornsby
12-20-2009, 09:50 PM
So, is anyone notifying LE about the update?
I don't see how else this can be resolved without doing so.
And when you do, let them know they are allowed to issue real life honest to goodness records subpoenas...

(PDF: MySpace Law Enforcement Guide (http://wikileaks.org/leak/lc-myspace-law-enforcement-guide.pdf))

Valhall
12-20-2009, 10:34 PM
Mr. Hornsby,

Most respectfully I submit to you that we already know that.

The information you supplied on your blog has already been supplied (in its entirety) here by the good people at WS. (HINT: We can work Orange County court records online ourselves - and have.) We know about the ZG22 issue.

But to use such irrational logic as: Because the ZG22 issue does not appear to be connected to Casey, the zenaida myspace is not connected either, is not too sound - to say it kindly!

Sorry - but I don't see how you took that great leap.

Oh - and by the way, you stated you visited my blog and stated that in visiting it you found the myspace may be a hoax. How the heck did you pull that out of what I have on my blog? I'm one of those people still waiting to see if LE found anything on this myspace. I have no clue what will be the final determination on this site.

We're all still waiting to see if there is anything on this myspace. And I contend, so are you. Because whatever you found in the courthouse records didn't have anything to do with this myspace.

We know that - because we looked at all of it long before you.

rhornsby
12-20-2009, 11:06 PM
Mr. Hornsby,

Most respectfully I submit to you that we already know that.

The information you supplied on your blog has already been supplied (in its entirety) here by the good people at WS. (HINT: We can work Orange County court records online ourselves - and have.) We know about the ZG22 issue.

But to use such irrational logic as: Because the ZG22 issue does not appear to be connected to Casey, the zenaida myspace is not connected either, is not too sound - to say it kindly!

Sorry - but I don't see how you took that great leap.

Oh - and by the way, you stated you visited my blog and stated that in visiting it you found the myspace may be a hoax. How the heck did you pull that out of what I have on my blog? I'm one of those people still waiting to see if LE found anything on this myspace. I have no clue what will be the final determination on this site.

We're all still waiting to see if there is anything on this myspace. And I contend, so are you. Because whatever you found in the courthouse records didn't have anything to do with this myspace.

We know that - because we looked at all of it long before you.
Valhall, here is my leap of logic.

Today's date is Sunday, December 20, 2009. That means law enforcement has had nearly 17 months to issue a subpoena for this information not only to MySpace - but to Casey Anthony's internet provider.

Either entity would have provided a complete listing of where she went and what she did (not to mention the computer forensics report would have revealed such activities).

Now here we are 17 months later (and 6 months after the State filed their Notice to Seek the Death Penalty) and we have a whole lot of nothing.

IF the State had any information in their possession about this MySpace page - it would be required to be turned over to the defense. End of Discussion.

As for my information, it was my blog and my thoughts on how ridiculous I think all the conspiracy theories are about Zenaida Gonzalez - I personally think she is a complete red herring. Just like I think her civil suit is a joke (both legally and truthfully, but that is a whole other topic.) Again, this is my opinion, not legal analysis involving case law and criminal procedure. So I don't mind it if you eventually prove me wrong.

Anyway, being 34 years old (yes, I am clinging to my youth with every ounce of my strength) and from Casey Anthony's side of town (I went to University High School, her high school's arch rival, blah, blah). So I know from personal experience the term Zanny Bar is a common term and substance people her age are into/familiar with. So that is my opinion on how the Zanny term came about and she just took it to the Nth level - as she did with every lie of hers.

As for my take on your blog, it looks like I read to much into one of your most recent comments <snipped>:

If it is the owner, then we’re very close to confirmation that this has nothing to do with CaseyRegardless, I added that sentence more for tongue in cheek humor than hard fact.

As for your beef with my WebSleuthing skills

The information you supplied on your blog has already been supplied (in its entirety)
Well, I looked all over and I did not see anyone having posted the physical documents from the court file which conclusively prove the ticketed Zenaida Gonzalez spoke only spanish and thus could not have been involved with Casey. (Plea Form, Notice of Fines, Disposition (http://blog.richardhornsby.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Gonzalez-Zenaida-48-2008-CT-2378-W.pdf)). But that is just nitpicking and I could be wrong. Don't really care.

Regardless, the entire purpose of my post was my personal thoughts about how irrational it is that hundreds of people are wound up over the significance of this MySpace page when all it takes is a simple subpoena to clear it up. A subpoena law enforcement has either been to lazy to seek or felt was not worth seeking.

Talk about irrationality. :banghead:

Valhall
12-20-2009, 11:15 PM
Yes, the documents have been posted.

Mr. Hornsby, answer me this, since you are running the circuit on blogs and forums right now on this issue.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT LE HAS NOT SUBPOENAED RECORDS FROM THIS MYSPACE?

And

HOW DO YOU KNOW THOSE RECORDS, IF OBTAINED, DO NOT ATTACH KC TO THIS MYSPACE?

Because they haven't been released?

Mr. Hornsby,

Would these records be released if they had not been requested by the defense in discovery?

Before you answer that question - please also consider answering this question: Would the Anthony home desktop ISP logs be released by now if the defense had not requested them? And do you think LE has NOT requested those records? Because they have not been released yet.

rhornsby
12-20-2009, 11:25 PM
Yes, the documents have been posted.

Mr. Hornsby, answer me this, since you are running the circuit on blogs and forums right now on this issue.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT LE HAS NOT SUBPOENAED RECORDS FROM THIS MYSPACE?

And

HOW DO YOU KNOW THOSE RECORDS, IF OBTAINED, DO NOT ATTACH KC TO THIS MYSPACE?

Because they haven't been released?

Mr. Hornsby,

Would these records be released if they had not been requested by the defense in discovery?

Before you answer that question - please also consider answering this question: Would the Anthony home desktop ISP logs be released by now if the defense had not requested them? And do you think LE has NOT requested those records? Because they have not been released yet.

why are you yelling?

anyway, because the defense filed a notice of discovery at the beginning of the case, florida rule of criminal procedure 3.220 requires that the state attorney must turn over all information they have - no exceptions. end of second discussion.

florida has what is called open discovery rules - the purpose of which is to prevent any surprise evidence from magically being presented at trial.

as for your last two questions

yes
it would not suprise me if they did not


finally, i am not saying that the myspace link could not be true, i am just saying law enforcement's failure to look into it says a lot to me about whether there is something there.

p.s. morgan and morgan could have subpoenaed this as part of the civil case as well - and it appears they have not.

Valhall
12-20-2009, 11:39 PM
why are you yelling?

anyway, because the defense filed a notice of discovery at the beginning of the case, florida rule of criminal procedure 3.220 requires that the state attorney must turn over all information they have - no exceptions. end of second discussion.

florida has what is called open discovery rules - the purpose of which is to prevent any surprise evidence from magically being presented at trial.

as for your last two questions

yes
it would not suprise me if they did not


finally, i am not saying that the myspace link could not be true, i am just saying law enforcement's failure to look into it says a lot to me about whether there is something there.

p.s. morgan and morgan could have subpoenaed this as part of the civil case as well - and it appears they have not.

I'm yelling because I'm passionate.

Okay, so you're saying that you believe (or you would not feel you were on shaking ground to believe) that law enforcement has not subpoena'd ISP logs from the Anthony home or myspace records from the laptop?

Because we've not seen myspace subpoena'd records for Casey Anthony's account. We've only seen publicly obtained records from Casey's account.

Are you saying that you know what Morgan and Morgan have subpoena'd in the civil action? Are they required to make public records they have for a civil case under the Sunshine Law?

Why did we not have particular forensics from the FBI lab until they were requested by the defense? If what you are saying is understood, shouldn't we have had them as soon as they were complete? Because the reports date back to last year, first quarter of this year and yet they weren't released until September to November after the defense requested them.

If we go off what you're saying, we can assume we have seen everything the state has at this moment, because that's what your statement reduces to. There is nothing yet unreleased if they have already had it.

wonders
12-20-2009, 11:42 PM
I'm as dumb as a rock, but I do have an honest to goodness question.
I thought the Myspace page had been frozen? Am I wrong?
Thank you in advance.

rhornsby
12-20-2009, 11:44 PM
And one other thing, if Casey Anthony did in fact create this Zenaida MySpace page with the intent to preemptively create some type of alibi or alternative suspect - why in the world would she put Dora the Explorer as the profile pic?

Dora the Explorer a character Caylee just happened to like! Why would Casey Anthony think her fall girl, Zenaida Gonzalez, would want Dora the Explorer as her profile pick??? Wouldn' Zenaida want to use a less suspicious profile pick?

I mean, think of how far in advance she would have had to think to basically screw with everyone's heads by setting up a page with:
1. The Zenaida name,
2. The Dora the Explorer character, and
3. The creation date of 6/16/08.

I am sorry, I am now 100% convinced someone set up that page after the fact to screw with people who were obsessed with this case. And I think they have succeeded.

Valhall
12-20-2009, 11:47 PM
And one other thing, if Casey Anthony did in fact create this Zenaida MySpace page with the intent to preemptively create some type of alibi or alternative suspect - why in the world would she put Dora the Explorer as the profile pic?

Dora the Explorer a character Caylee just happened to like! Why would Casey Anthony think her fall girl, Zenaida Gonzalez, would want Dora the Explorer as her profile pick??? Wouldn' Zenaida want to use a less suspicious profile pick?

I mean, think of how far in advance she would have had to think to basically screw with everyone's heads by setting up a page with:
1. The Zenaida name,
2. The Dora the Explorer character, and
3. The creation date of 6/18/08.

I am sorry, I am now 100% convinced someone set up that page after the fact to screw with people who were obsessed with this case. And I think they have succeeded.


This is where you are showing you have either not read the full work here, or just didn't pay attention as you did.

The page was created on June 16th, 2008.

I'm going to insert a pregnant pause there so that you can reflect on your theory "some one created it after the fact".

The page was created on June 16th, 2008.

mydailyopinions
12-20-2009, 11:50 PM
And one other thing, if Casey Anthony did in fact create this Zenaida MySpace page with the intent to preemptively create some type of alibi or alternative suspect - why in the world would she put Dora the Explorer as the profile pic?

Dora the Explorer a character Caylee just happened to like! Why would Casey Anthony think her fall girl, Zenaida Gonzalez, would want Dora the Explorer as her profile pick??? Wouldn' Zenaida want to use a less suspicious profile pick?

I mean, think of how far in advance she would have had to think to basically screw with everyone's heads by setting up a page with:
1. The Zenaida name,
2. The Dora the Explorer character, and
3. The creation date of 6/18/08.

I am sorry, I am now 100% convinced someone set up that page after the fact to screw with people who were obsessed with this case. And I think they have succeeded.

I can't comment on the myspace page in itself, but will comment on the bolded section of your comment..
Casey would do all of these things. If she could go 31 days without contacting anyone about her daughter missing, all along getting a "Bella Vita' tattoo that means "a beautiful life"...I think she would be dumb enough to create a page such as this..not saying she did it, but her other behaviors suggests that she would..
With the creation date, it was way before anyone knew Caylee was missing..Now if what I read is correct, the date this page was made cannot be changed..
:waitasec:
I understand what you are saying, but this is the exact thing I would expect a mother who killed her child and hid it for 31 days could accomplish..

rhornsby
12-20-2009, 11:51 PM
I'm yelling because I'm passionate.

Okay, so you're saying that you believe (or you would not feel you were on shaking ground to believe) that law enforcement has not subpoena'd ISP logs from the Anthony home or myspace records from the laptop?

Because we've not seen myspace subpoenaed records for Casey Anthony's account. We've only seen publicly obtained records from Casey's account.

Are you saying that you know what Morgan and Morgan have subpoena'd in the civil action? Are they required to make public records they have for a civil case under the Sunshine Law?

Why did we not have particular forensics from the FBI lab until they were requested by the defense? If what you are saying is understood, shouldn't we have had them as soon as they were complete? Because the reports date back to last year, first quarter of this year and yet they weren't released until September to November after the defense requested them.

If we go off what you're saying, we can assume we have seen everything the state has at this moment, because that's what your statement reduces to. There is nothing yet unreleased if they have already had it.

All that I am saying is that the records related to the MySpace account are the most rudimentary evidence that could be obtained and would have been obtained by the Orange County Sheriff's Office, not the FBI.

As for the civil case, no he is not required to disclose all of his evidence to the public like the state is in the criminal case. But, this guy has made a bigger production out of Ms. Zenaida's case than any other civil case I can ever remember.

I mean this guy invited the media to depositions and released the transcripts immediately after. Not only is that ridiculous - I have never heard of the media being at a civil deposition. If it had been my client, there would have been no deposition.

My point though, is that Morgan would release any and everything that could hurt Casey Anthony.

And nothing would hurt her more than evidence showing she set up a Zenaida MySpace account the day her daughter was last seen/believed to die.

Not only that, it would be the smoking gun piece of evidence to win his client's case.

rhornsby
12-21-2009, 12:00 AM
This is where you are showing you have either not read the full work here, or just didn't pay attention as you did.

The page was created on June 16th, 2008.

I'm going to insert a pregnant pause there so that you can reflect on your theory "some one created it after the fact".

The page was created on June 16th, 2008.

I am sorry I was off by two days, that is not my point.

When I say after the fact, I mean months after this case started. And while the account may - or may not - have been created on June 16, the content could have been inserted months after.

What is someone obtained/hacked an inactive account created on 6/16 and then set it up to screw with people.

I mean, you are willing to concede that someone might have been able to hack into it recently, but not months ago when this case had way more people interested and some kids with to much time on their hands might have said "hey I know how we can really screw with someone."

Casey Anthony is the offspring of George and Cindy Anthony - Not Albert Einstein and Mileva Marić. You all giver her way to much credit.

Ugh, I have a headache again - anyone have a zanny bar so I can go to sleep...

Valhall
12-21-2009, 12:00 AM
Please understand, Mr. Hornsby, that I'm not particularlt mad at you, but I am a bit aggravated. And I will explain why. This particular issue (if you were to read this whole thread), has been a thorn for many of us who cannot yet dismiss it, while at the same time, cannot say for ourselves (because we lack the power of subpoena) that this is Casey.

I believe all the members who have been involved in this work have been reserved in their language, slow to jump to conclusions, but at the same time shown a great deal of critical thinking that has DISALLOWED the rejection of this being Casey.

We have waited patiently. In September we were informed (briefly) that this site may NOT have been investigated prior to that date. Because of that statement (with us not knowing if that is accurate or not) we have allowed that this myspace may not have been subpoenaed before September of this year.

Which would mean that if there were something to this site, we might only now be seeing it in released discovery.

My irritation is that you have misrepresented what is said in this thread (and on my blog), and jumped to conclusions in your own statements at your blog (as well as your comments at certain sites). We truly want to know what the truth is about this myspace page. I can only speak for myself, but I assure you I will accept what comes from LE when the day is done. But the day is not yet done, Mr. Hornsby. And I do not believe you can definitively say that the time has past that this site's information would have been already released. I think you over-stepped yourself on that one.

I will also share with you that I spoke with Morgan & Morgan, and I am very unsure that you are correct that they do not have information on this site. Maybe they operate differently than you suspect. I would not feel confident saying they do not have information against Casey concerning this site. I am still patiently waiting to see.

Valhall
12-21-2009, 12:05 AM
And let me add, Mr. Hornsby, that if you were just another mullet-head like me, your opinion broadcast on your blog and in other areas might not be a big deal. It would just be another conclusion drawn prematurely on this issue. But because of your position, and your career, your words tend to be taken with a bit more importance than those of us who spend time trying to get our facts straight. Because of that, you have a greater burden to ensure you don't rush to judgment on certain issues. In essence, an ill-thought statement by you can wipe out the work of several of us.

Maybe that's why I yelled.

rhornsby
12-21-2009, 12:10 AM
Please understand, Mr. Hornsby, that I'm not particularlt mad at you, but I am a bit aggravated. And I will explain why. This particular issue (if you were to read this whole thread), has been a thorn for many of us who cannot yet dismiss it, while at the same time, cannot say for ourselves (because we lack the power of subpoena) that this is Casey.

I believe all the members who have been involved in this work have been reserved in their language, slow to jump to conclusions, but at the same time shown a great deal of critical thinking that has DISALLOWED the rejection of this being Casey.

We have waited patiently. In September we were informed (briefly) that this site may NOT have been investigated prior to that date. Because of that statement (with us not knowing if that is accurate or not) we have allowed that this myspace may not have been subpoenaed before September of this year.

Which would mean that if there were something to this site, we might only now be seeing it in released discovery.

My irritation is that you have misrepresented what is said in this thread (and on my blog), and jumped to conclusions in your own statements at your blog (as well as your comments at certain sites). We truly want to know what the truth is about this myspace page. I can only speak for myself, but I assure you I will accept what comes from LE when the day is done. But the day is not yet done, Mr. Hornsby. And I do not believe you can definitively say that the time has past that this site's information would have been already released. I think you over-stepped yourself on that one.

I will also share with you that I spoke with Morgan & Morgan, and I am very unsure that you are correct that they do not have information on this site. Maybe they operate differently than you suspect. I would not feel confident saying they do not have information against Casey concerning this site. I am still patiently waiting to see.

Well, I will leave it at that. As for Morgan & Morgan, maybe they do have the information. Only problem is they would have had to issue a subpoena, which requires notice to the account creator under Florida law, and if the account creator was Casey Anthony - chances are she got notice.

And if Casey was not the account creator, Morgan would still have to use a subpoena to obtain the information. And once obtained, they would be required to turn it over to Ms. Anthony's civil attorney upon request. And her civil attorney seems like the most intelligent attorney out of the whole charade. So I would be surprised if he did not request it.

In any event, considering all of the work you all have put into this subject - I hope my opinion turns out to be wrong.

Valhall
12-21-2009, 12:14 AM
Thank you for listening, Mr. Hornsby. I appreciate your insight into the legal maneuvers involved in both the criminal and civil actions. I just wanted you to understand that maybe there was a bit more to this than you apparently had picked up on. I do not believe this issue is black and white just yet. We're all setting in the gray area waiting for some one to develop the picture - if you will.

We really don't know. But we're also pretty certain no one else on the outside knows either.

Regards.

wonders
12-21-2009, 12:28 AM
I'm as dumb as a rock, but I do have an honest to goodness question.
I thought the Myspace page had been frozen? Am I wrong?
Thank you in advance.

Sorry to quote myself, but could someone answer my question? TYIA.

cecybeans
12-21-2009, 12:42 AM
Can't LE delay turning over discovery if it's an ongoing investigation? Perhaps they are not finished with it yet. The state may not be interested unless it turns out to be the smoking gun, though the fact it was created just hours before Caylee died and last accessed the day KC was indicted for murder is coincidence enough to give anyone pause (who else but a murderer with intent would know otherwise?). As is the Miami "location" and the Dora doll (who is of course an adorable Latino character Caylee loved and might have a variety of connotations within that family).

We are many months away from trial - and while I'm sure the state won't be delivering any last-minute surprises, it has been amusing to see how the defense has responded to what has been released so far. JB was acting as if it was a Herculean effort to simply read it all on JVM, and did not correct her comment that perhaps the mountains of discovery were some kind of nasty plot the state created to keep them too busy.

Valhall and others have done an amazing amount of work without the easy access to resources a legal professional in FL obviously has. Regardless of how this turns out, she and the others deserve kudos for such meticulous investigative efforts.

The fact RH has chosen it as a worthy subject to entertain his own readers elsewhere is backhanded flattery. The fact he has written about it in a flip way reflects more on him than the folks who toiled hard here.

rhornsby
12-21-2009, 12:56 AM
Can't LE delay turning over discovery if it's an ongoing investigation? Perhaps they are not finished with it yet. The state may not be interested unless it turns out to be the smoking gun, though the fact it was created just hours before Caylee died and last accessed the day KC was indicted for murder is coincidence enough to give anyone pause (who else but a murderer with intent would know otherwise?). As is the Miami "location" and the Dora doll (who is of course an adorable Latino character Caylee loved and might have a variety of connotations within that family).

We are many months away from trial - and while I'm sure the state won't be delivering any last-minute surprises, it has been amusing to see how the defense has responded to what has been released so far. JB was acting as if it was a Herculean effort to simply read it all on JVM, and did not correct her comment that perhaps the mountains of discovery were some kind of nasty plot the state created to keep them too busy.

Valhall and others have done an amazing amount of work without the easy access to resources a legal professional in FL obviously has. Regardless of how this turns out, she and the others deserve kudos for such meticulous investigative efforts.

The fact RH has chosen it as a worthy subject to entertain his own readers elsewhere is backhanded flattery. The fact he has written about it in a flip way reflects more on him than the folks who toiled hard here.

By no means am I discounting any person's work. It just blows my mind that if these records were subpoenaed, they were not released yet.

On one hand I am as intrigued as anyone about the seemingly indisputable date the page was created and then last accessed. As am I confused by the recent activity by whomever has access.

On the other hand, I just cannot understand why LE has not obtained the records. Because if Casey did in fact create this page - game over.

I am going to go crawl back under a rock and re-ponder this issue.

cecybeans
12-21-2009, 12:59 AM
Does LE necessarily have to produce a subpoena to get access to those records if the owners of the records are simply happy to cooperate? Also, some of them may not have been easily available at the provider over a year later, depending on if or how they preserve or archive them.

rhornsby
12-21-2009, 01:11 AM
Does LE necessarily have to produce a subpoena to get access to those records if the owners of the records are simply happy to cooperate? Also, some of them may not have been easily available at the provider over a year later, depending on if or how they preserve or archive them.
Remember we are not just talking about MySpace, but whomever Casey's IP provider was also. But generally, even with an owner's permission, service providers still require a subpoena (at least phone companies do).

But since I am back-tracking on my initial beliefs about this. Does anyone know when the first Dora the Explorer reference was attributed to Caylee? What I am trying to get at, is when would it have become obvious to associate Dora the Explorer with Caylee Anthony - what date?

kew17
12-21-2009, 01:12 AM
Took the thoughts out of my brain Cecebeans! You just said it so much better! You too, are to be thanked for your efforts in these truth seeking missions!

Oakley
12-21-2009, 01:18 AM
Remember we are not just talking about MySpace, but whomever Casey's IP provider was also. But generally, even with an owner's permission, service providers still require a subpoena (at least phone companies do).

But since I am back-tracking on my initial beliefs about this. Does anyone know when the first Dora the Explorer reference was attributed to Caylee? What I am trying to get at, is when would it have become obvious to associate Dora the Explorer with Caylee Anthony - what date?

All I recall is Cindy and George stating that Caylee loved Dora the Explorer, as many her age do. She watched Dora on TV, and had Dora items (such as a backpack.) Cindy said Caylee could count up to 45 in Spanish. I am thinking that Casey perhaps wanted to use Dora on the MySpace page (assuming she is responsible for it's set up) in order to implicate ZFG in Caylee's "kidnapping" and murder.

ETA: To answer your question, not sure of any particular date, just that Caylee loved Dora.

Oakley
12-21-2009, 01:24 AM
I'm as dumb as a rock, but I do have an honest to goodness question.
I thought the Myspace page had been frozen? Am I wrong?
Thank you in advance.

It was until recently. See post #1918 of this thread.

RR0004
12-21-2009, 01:38 AM
Found mention of the backpack as early as August, 2008. It was in the car.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,410865,00.html

I'll update if I find an earlier reference.

Safe to say that it was reported when a set of docs were released 8/25/08.

Oakley
12-21-2009, 01:45 AM
Valhall also mentions in her blog that in Cindy’s deposition at the end of July 2009, she stated that Dora was one of Caylee’s favorite videos/shows to watch frequently.

cecybeans
12-21-2009, 01:51 AM
Remember we are not just talking about MySpace, but whomever Casey's IP provider was also. But generally, even with an owner's permission, service providers still require a subpoena (at least phone companies do).

But since I am back-tracking on my initial beliefs about this. Does anyone know when the first Dora the Explorer reference was attributed to Caylee? What I am trying to get at, is when would it have become obvious to associate Dora the Explorer with Caylee Anthony - what date?

It might not matter when we found out about it - it was clearly something KC knew CA and GA would instantly recognize, and that may have been her intent.

She had already tried something similar with that phony email she sent herself from her "boss" Tom Manley. I think she figured that if her parents saw something on the internet, it was as good as true in their eyes. And if she did create it, we have no idea when she was planning on springing this little nugget of info on her parents. Maybe from out of town a few weeks later. But CA didn't give her "just one more day". She may have not even thought LE would ever be involved.

cyberborg
12-21-2009, 01:52 AM
In some ways it would have been a KC-ism to use Dora as the MySpace icon to connect ZFG with Caylee.

There were suspicions KC setup this account given the coincidences but wonder why she never acted on it. KC never acted on a lot of things, she seemed to lose herself in hiding and not take the alibi setting effort as seriously.

Living 10 minutes at a time I think KC was just moving on since CA was seeming to buy the stories and was not searching that hard to locate KC. It wasn't until the car was located that CA really sought out KC.

cyberborg
12-21-2009, 01:55 AM
It might not matter when we found out about it - it was clearly something KC knew CA and GA would instantly recognize, and that may have been her intent.

She had already tried something similar with that phony email she sent herself from her "boss" Tom Manley. I think she figured that if her parents saw something on the internet, it was as good as true in their eyes. And if she did create it, we have no idea when she was planning on springing this little nugget of info on her parents. Maybe from out of town a few weeks later. But CA didn't give her "just one more day". She may have not even thought LE would ever be involved.

True --- I think that was KC's intent .... to hoodwink her parents [if it was her?].

However, I think RH is coming from the perspective of, if this was someone playing a ruse on us and hijacked an unused account that was setup June 16 --- we need to try to sleuth that as well to eliminate it.

Oakley
12-21-2009, 02:07 AM
True --- I think that was KC's intent .... to hoodwink her parents [if it was her?].

However, I think RH is coming from the perspective of, if this was someone playing a ruse on us and hijacked an unused account that was setup June 16 --- we need to try to sleuth that as well to eliminate it.

I am thinking Mr Hornsby may not have read this entire thread. I thought I had read (somewhere back here in this thread) verification from Bond or JWG that the dates on the MySpace page were authentic and could not have been changed.

cecybeans
12-21-2009, 02:09 AM
True --- I think that was KC's intent .... to hoodwink her parents [if it was her?].

However, I think RH is coming from the perspective of, if this was someone playing a ruse on us and hijacked an unused account that was setup June 16 --- we need to try to sleuth that as well to eliminate it.

True - but I hope someone here can give us the odds on how easy that would be to do. It would certainly have to be someone who was not only tech savvy but who wanted it to look like exculpatory evidence, imo, which would be a pro defense type. I haven't run into too many of them on the boards who have both skill sets. Which isn't to say they don't exist.

autumnlover
12-21-2009, 02:15 AM
Forgive me if someone said this earlier and I missed it - I don't think it's an accident that the MySpace ZFG page became active directly following the judge's decision on the DP. Don't be surprised if GA and CA had their hands in this, particularly CA, IMHO.

cyberborg
12-21-2009, 02:21 AM
True - but I hope someone here can give us the odds on how easy that would be to do. It would certainly have to be someone who was not only tech savvy but who wanted it to look like exculpatory evidence, imo, which would be a pro defense type. I haven't run into too many of them on the boards who have both skill sets. Which isn't to say they don't exist.

As a retroactive hijack of an account created June 16 just to pose as ZFG it does tend towards the conspiracy theory angle .... counter to occams razor.

I know there was some activity reported at setup that was compared / consistent to KC's cell phone, need to refresh myself on this thread.

I am actually a security guy so if the original hijacked account was setup with a default password ...... but .... the coincidences are too great. If this was a ruse then surely there would have been more done with it as well as some seeded hype.

IMO it does seem consistent with something KC started, toyed with but, never took anywhere.

ETA: CA could have access to it now given KC shared her passwords

Oakley
12-21-2009, 02:23 AM
Because, so far in testing the "how does one fake things in myspace" approaches, it does not appear that the last login date has been faked. :)

I am not going to pretend I am an expert in web pages and style sheets, because I am very far from it. But I know just enough to be dangerous. :bang:

If I dig through the page source of my faked myspace page with my last login changed (as well as my sex, age, and location), here is what I see:
<td class="text" width="193" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="75" align="left"><font class="f1">Female</font><font class="f2">24 years old</font><font class="f3">Miami, FL</font><font class="f4">United States</font><font class="f5">Last Login: 10/14/2008</font><font class="off">
<br />
<br />Male
<br />48 years old
<br />City, STATE
<br />United States
<br />
<br />
<span class="msOnlineNow "><img src="http://x.myspacecdn.com/modules/common/static/img/onlinenow2.gif" />Online Now!</span>
<br />
<br />Last Login: <span property="myspace:lastLogin" content="2009-05-28" datatype="xsd:date">5/28/2009</span>
<br />
</td>
Here is an image of the spoofed profile. Note the last login date and other information. I did not change any of that in my profile:

3926

Notice in the source code that the original information is still there (highlighted in blue). The new information is in red. Why does the new information show but not the original in the displayed page? :waitasec:

Because the hack adds the code <font class="off">, which essentially turns off the display of the original information, but does not remove it. So while we cannot see the original information when displayed in a web page, we can always find it when looking at the page source ("CTL-U" in any browser). :rolleyes: One cannot remove the original information from myspace. They can only obscure it.

When I go into the "zenaida" web page, I find only one set of information in the page source. There is no hidden original information paired with displayed fake information. :thumb:

The same holds true of the blog page that shows the sign-up date. Only one set of information can be found on that page - nothing is "turned off". :woohoo:

The zenaida myspace page, IMHO, is genuine. :eek:

Link to page here (http://www.myspace.com/389838213). (http://www.myspace.com/389838213)

Which means to me that when LE was given the information by Valhall in late February (is that when you sent it to them Val?), they took the next two months to:


Subpoena myspace for the IP addresses used to create and modify the page
Discovered those IP addresses were tied to dates and times consistent with KC's location, possibly using cell records as a guide
Found enough additional keywords that they could use to search unallocated sectors (deleted files) on the laptop for evidence
Found traces of KC accessing the specific myspace page in question from those unallocated sectors

Furthermore, because the myspace page was created on June 16, cell pings and Tony's testimony of what he and KC did that evening, coupled with the Encase timeline reports from both computers indicate that KC created the website while at the Anthony home. Myspace IP logs would confirm this. :mad:

Doesn't this post clear up some of these issues?

Jomo
12-21-2009, 03:22 AM
I agree with previous posters that Casey made the MySpace page to setup the story that she had planned for her parents when she supposedly got back from her trip.

I'm sure that she cooked up this elaborate scenerio (like all of her overly detailed lies and every person with three names) believing that George and Cindy would buy it.

- kill the baby (Casey's thought: Oh crap! I'm really going to get in trouble now! I had better come up with a story!)
- Create a nanny and web page :online:
- pretend to be out of town and left the baby with the nanny
- stage the body to look like a sicko nabbed her
- dump the body
- (Casey thought: Oh crap! That stink is not going away!) Plant the car and hope it gets stolen
- return all surprised and blame the nanny :innocent:
- act the poor victim :curtsey: and hope people believe the story :crossfingers:
- win the sympathy, attention of America...baby never to be found...the end :angel:

The problem is that she got caught by Cindy NOT out of town...all the rest of the setup story fell apart with that little fact.

Casey then tried to continue with the Zanny story out of order and couldn't keep it up... She knows that if she holds a story long enough, George and Cindy will at least doubt themselves :waitasec: and give up doubting her.

Things are hard enough to follow in this case because it doesn't make sense if you try to follow the facts linearly.

I think Casey really thought she could get herself out of this pickle. I even think that the death might have been an accident due to Casey's negligence. Knowing what trouble she would be in, she staged the body to look like some sadist had nabbed poor Caylee in case the body would been discovered...then created the stories backwards all to cover up. She could blame the nanny (the location of the body if found would have also been very easily explained because of course the nanny would have known the Anthonys' home.)

I don't know... I just work with so many young adults and the "Oh crap! I have to get myself out of this one" thought process is second nature. The difference is that most wouldn't go that far!

darnudes
12-21-2009, 04:43 AM
By no means am I discounting any person's work. It just blows my mind that if these records were subpoenaed, they were not released yet.

On one hand I am as intrigued as anyone about the seemingly indisputable date the page was created and then last accessed. As am I confused by the recent activity by whomever has access.

On the other hand, I just cannot understand why LE has not obtained the records. Because if Casey did in fact create this page - game over.

I am going to go crawl back under a rock and re-ponder this issue.

See, that's just it. There is NO getting around those dates:

Created 16 June 2008
Last accessed 14 October 2008 (until yesterday)

You are right it is intriguing and that is why we have spent so many hours and pages discussing this, and others investigating this issue - work that can't be lightly discounted, not saying you did this.

This thread is 79 pages long, one of the longest on this case and there is a lot of good work here. However, at the end, it all comes back to the dates - if someone can give me a reasonable answer that explains the dates I will call it day on this issue.

No one can.

KeysBreeze
12-21-2009, 11:36 AM
I think Casey is Zenaida in her own mind. George claims he saw a resume that Casey had where she listed her occupation as Nanny. I don't think she ever felt any maternal feeling towards Caylee and felt like a Nanny. During her interviews she says with conviction that the last person she saw Caylee with was the Nanny. It was the evil Nanny/Casey that killed Caylee. I think it's a way she justifies what she has done in her sick mind.

cecybeans
12-21-2009, 11:44 AM
If this theory pans out and KC did indeed create the page, it will also blast open any attempt the defense makes to shrink the "missing" timeline. The farther away the creation of this page is to when Caylee supposedly "disappeared" the more premeditated it will look. They would not be able to get by with that tactic.

Blaise
12-21-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm conducting a little test. I've attached a tracker to this page and am curious if I can see who is visiting the page (since I'm not the "owner" of the page)

Will have to weed through all the curious viewers from bloggers and people just stopping by the page, but this tracker will also show the IP of the owner of the acct, should they visit it. Or in this case, maybe the hacker.

I know we talked about trackers way back, but curiosity has me this morning.

Stupid question 101 -- I just found my ip (it was under the refrigerator) and traced my ip, and it leads to Atlanta, GA. I'm not in Atlanta, GA. I'm about 120 miles away. I've always been confused about exactly *what* an ip can tell you. What can it tell you?

Blaise

WolfmarsGirl
12-21-2009, 02:56 PM
Stupid question 101 -- I just found my ip (it was under the refrigerator) and traced my ip, and it leads to Atlanta, GA. I'm not in Atlanta, GA. I'm about 120 miles away. I've always been confused about exactly *what* an ip can tell you. What can it tell you?

Blaise

Yeah, mine says a town about 10 miles away. I think maybe it tells the location of the nearest main server for your internet service provider?? I am not sure.

logicalgirl
12-21-2009, 03:51 PM
I agree with previous posters that Casey made the MySpace page to setup the story that she had planned for her parents when she supposedly got back from her trip.

I'm sure that she cooked up this elaborate scenerio (like all of her overly detailed lies and every person with three names) believing that George and Cindy would buy it.

- kill the baby (Casey's thought: Oh crap! I'm really going to get in trouble now! I had better come up with a story!)
- Create a nanny and web page :online:
- pretend to be out of town and left the baby with the nanny
- stage the body to look like a sicko nabbed her
- dump the body
- (Casey thought: Oh crap! That stink is not going away!) Plant the car and hope it gets stolen
- return all surprised and blame the nanny :innocent:
- act the poor victim :curtsey: and hope people believe the story :crossfingers:
- win the sympathy, attention of America...baby never to be found...the end :angel:

The problem is that she got caught by Cindy NOT out of town...all the rest of the setup story fell apart with that little fact.

Casey then tried to continue with the Zanny story out of order and couldn't keep it up... She knows that if she holds a story long enough, George and Cindy will at least doubt themselves :waitasec: and give up doubting her.

Things are hard enough to follow in this case because it doesn't make sense if you try to follow the facts linearly.

I think Casey really thought she could get herself out of this pickle. I even think that the death might have been an accident due to Casey's negligence. Knowing what trouble she would be in, she staged the body to look like some sadist had nabbed poor Caylee in case the body would been discovered...then created the stories backwards all to cover up. She could blame the nanny (the location of the body if found would have also been very easily explained because of course the nanny would have known the Anthonys' home.)

I don't know... I just work with so many young adults and the "Oh crap! I have to get myself out of this one" thought process is second nature. The difference is that most wouldn't go that far!

I like all this until the point of the "accident" - Uh-uhh.

rhornsby
12-21-2009, 03:55 PM
FYI: I spoke to a reporter friend today who will make a Public Records request specifically for any discovery related to this MySpace page. I will let you all know what comes of it when I find out (if I do).

Valhall
12-21-2009, 04:03 PM
FYI: I spoke to a reporter friend today who will make a Public Records request specifically for any discovery related to this MySpace page. I will let you all know what comes of it when I find out (if I do).

Look forward to hearing what comes of it!

Just Jayla
12-21-2009, 05:40 PM
Look forward to hearing what comes of it!

Thanks for all your hard work particularly on this one area, Valhall-This has been my single most favorite thread because of its true sleuthiness-if this all points back to girlfriend KC, this is BIG-An effort to cover her crime.
BTW, this would pretty much seal the deal in the ZG lawsuit-KC lied and created a ZG, and her actions directly harmed another (the real ZG).

Anyway, just wanted to thankya for the millionth time, I am waiting to see what happens with the public records request as well!

Just Jayla
12-21-2009, 05:54 PM
In re: to the Zenaida traffic ticket:



More copies purchased on 04/10/2009.....Was this LE, or JM? Sleuther?


I guess I know the answer to this now....Mr. Hornsby?....I wondered about this back in May of this year, but forgot about this until I linked to a certain blog site just now...

cloud9
12-21-2009, 06:06 PM
Just thinking...

Zenaida Myspace created 6/16/08
Accessed 10/14/08
KC Booked 10/14/08

Booking Number:08049710 Race:White Gender:Female Date of Birth:03/19/1986 Last Known Address:4937 Hopesprings Drive, Orlando, Fl 32829
Cell:F-DORML-22 Date Booked:10/14/2008 Time Booked:07:04pm Number of Holds:HOME CONFINEMENT
Notes:None

When was the Myspace page frozen?

ETA~ Link to booking info.

http://www.orangecountyfl.net/bailbond/default.asp?REDID={AD575B0E-5FA8-447E-B8CE-432A446BF855}&BookNumber=08049710&ID=5649253333835

Reagan
12-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Valhall also mentions in her blog that in Cindy’s deposition at the end of July 2009, she stated that Dora was one of Caylee’s favorite videos/shows to watch frequently.

I thought the connection was also made on Dec 11th when Caylee's remains were found and with her remains were "toy horses" that were part of a Dora the Explorer toy set.

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong..? :waitasec:

Valhall
12-21-2009, 09:36 PM
Reagan,

There was supposed to be a pony or horse found with the remains, but I've not seen anything released on that since it was first stated.

Yes, Dora has ponies. But the references between the two are speculative at best since we haven't seen pictures of the toy horse found at the scene.

Reagan
12-21-2009, 11:28 PM
Good point Val and you are right. Thanks for refreshing my mind! I don't know why I thought that piece of evidence was confirmed. I also mis-understood the initial question... so I'm just going to slowly back out of this thread and hit the ole dusty trail ;)
Move a long people... nothing to see here ..

I'll blame it on stress at work and lack of sleep. Yeah, lets go with that.


Anywho, thanks for the correction and take care, friend!

wenwe4
12-21-2009, 11:31 PM
By no means am I discounting any person's work. It just blows my mind that if these records were subpoenaed, they were not released yet.

snipped by me

Is there some legal time limit in the FL laws that require a time limit on when evidence is to be turned over to the defense & anyone that requests it? Seems to me there have been numerous things we have been waiting for and I would assume those things are being kept close to the vest. Many of the crime scene photos have not been released, like pics of the toys and other items found nearby. There certainly seems to be a spacing of document dumps, and I am sure those things didn't all come in at the exact same time as they have various dates on them. Just curious if there is some time limit to turn items over.

Oakley
12-21-2009, 11:41 PM
I thought the connection was also made on Dec 11th when Caylee's remains were found and with her remains were "toy horses" that were part of a Dora the Explorer toy set.

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong..? :waitasec:

That I don't recall (Dec 11th) but I could be wrong. My understanding is it was opened on June 16th and last accessed October 14th (? whatever date of the GJ indictment and Casey's last arrest.)

cyberborg
12-21-2009, 11:43 PM
Stupid question 101 -- I just found my ip (it was under the refrigerator) and traced my ip, and it leads to Atlanta, GA. I'm not in Atlanta, GA. I'm about 120 miles away. I've always been confused about exactly *what* an ip can tell you. What can it tell you?

Blaise

An IP can tell you a lot!! Done right it can identify your home, just like your mailing address.

An ISP has a bunch of IP addresses known as NetBlks and will break them down, so your neighborhood will be assigned a specific range of IP addresses, known as a 'subnet'.

Most Internet users don't have a fixed IP address per se, they are assigned one dynamically but usually you get the same address over and over.

Either way, whether your dynamic IP address changed recently or not the ISP can tell what periods which IP was assigned to you.

The ISP identifies you by your equipment at your house connecting to the Internet, so you will have a router or modem (dial-up, DSL, cable, etc) that connects. The device has a hardware address known as a MAC address that identifies the device and is unique.

So ...... when you connect to the Internet an IP address is assigned to your device (MAC address) and a log is kept of all assigned IP addresses, so an ISP can bill you and know its you.

Everything is based on that IP address that comes from/to your home so, like a mailing address, someone can identify where you came from and what you did --- like accessing the WS Forum. Even though you sign in and use a password other info is available such as your IP address to log.

So .... we can tell which IP logged in when the MySpace page was created for Zenaida and thus where it was done from -- if those logs are retained this long.

Hope this helps.

ExpectingUnicorns
12-22-2009, 01:09 AM
I do have such a good life and many things to be thankful for ~ but wouldn't cracking this be one of the neatest Christmas gifts ever?

ETA: We'd all have to send Valhall a bottle of champagne. Can you imagine how many she'd get? I love it!!!!

Valhall
12-22-2009, 07:32 AM
I do have such a good life and many things to be thankful for ~ but wouldn't cracking this be one of the neatest Christmas gifts ever?

ETA: We'd all have to send Valhall a bottle of champagne. Can you imagine how many she'd get? I love it!!!!

While you're very sweet, I have to point out I would just have to send them all back to you guys for what you've done here as well, so buy yourself one and we'll just set up a ventrillo server and have a party online!

As I've said before, if this is nothing and I've wasted a lot of good people's time with it for nearly a year, I'm going to feel real bad. If it is Casey, there's nothing I've done but shared something I found suspicious - from there it was everbody.

And, yes, I'm not sure I have received a Christmas gift as awesome as that would be since I've been an adult.

I would like to ask you guys what your opinion is on the the 19th activity. I tend to believe it was a hacker and that the "i love alex" was a calling card to let their friends know they were the one who broke the account. I'm having a hard time believing even Cindy or Lee would be stupid enough to do this. They've got to know LE could quickly discern it was them. And besides that, I would assume all information needed by LE has been obtained by now, so it makes no difference (not even in the public eye) if some one goes in and defaces the account.

The only other explanation is if the myspace information was turned over to the defense team this week and they wanted to go into the account to see if there was information still residing in the account (such as mail, etc.) But they wouldn't leave a goofy little message on the mood like "i love alex" would they? That seems a ridiculous idea to me.

LolaMoon08
12-22-2009, 10:47 AM
Isn't Lee's middle name "Alex"ander? Just something to think about? I don't know whether or not it is a hacker but I could see where someone close to Casey would have gotten access to the password and decided to tamper with it. Nothing any of her supporters do surprises me.

2goldfish
12-22-2009, 11:17 AM
anybody got a screenie of "I love alex"? I dont see it anywhere on the page, was it changed after?

reeseeva
12-22-2009, 11:45 AM
http://friends.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=profile.friendmoods&friendId=389838213


Someone saved this and posted it to Marinade Dave's site.....

2goldfish
12-22-2009, 02:13 PM
it's changed to profile 2.0 now. it wasnt when I saw it earlier?

Spacegirl
12-22-2009, 09:19 PM
I've been out of town, the first thing I did when I got home was check my e-mail and there sat the e-mail myspace had auto dispatched to me stating that zenaida had accepted my friend's request. My hands were literally shaking as I click through websleuths searching for the zenaida thread.. you guys were already all over it thank goodness!

Anyway, I don't know what to think about this. I guess I'm leaning towards someone hacking into the account. Although I'm surprised that only 9 or 10 people sent friend requests to this account.

What I'm worried about is LE not paying any attention to this. How likely is that? I know in my heart that KC created this account and I believe it's a very important piece of evidence, if not a smoking gun! And I can just see it being completely overlooked.

Tulessa
12-22-2009, 09:33 PM
I've been out of town, the first thing I did when I got home was check my e-mail and there sat the e-mail myspace had auto dispatched to me stating that zenaida had accepted my friend's request. My hands were literally shaking as I click through websleuths searching for the zenaida thread.. you guys were already all over it thank goodness!

Anyway, I don't know what to think about this. I guess I'm leaning towards someone hacking into the account. Although I'm surprised that only 9 or 10 people sent friend requests to this account.

What I'm worried about is LE not paying any attention to this. How likely is that? I know in my heart that KC created this account and I believe it's a very important piece of evidence, if not a smoking gun! And I can just see it being completely overlooked.

Richards blog explained this all pretty well. I personally, do not think it was her. Just my opinion though,:)

Oakley
12-22-2009, 10:07 PM
I am not one to believe in or follow conspiracy theories (as R. Hornsby suggested this may be) but I do believe Casey set up this page. The original date and last logged in date (up until recently) could not have been faked, as was proven by others on this thread. Since someone other than the original owner seems to have taken control of the page recently, I am reminded of the BSOD, the bogus work e-mails, and LE's words about Lee when Lee was seeking immunity through his attorney: "Lee knows what he has done." Lee may have nothing to do with this but I wonder if he may have 'helped' Casey to cover her tracks after the fact. I am eager to learn more about the origin of this page as far as IP address of originator.

Tulessa
12-22-2009, 10:27 PM
I am not one to believe in or follow conspiracy theories (as R. Hornsby suggested this may be) but I do believe Casey set up this page. The original date and last logged in date (up until recently) could not have been faked, as was proven by others on this thread. Since someone other than the original owner seems to have taken control of the page recently, I am reminded of the BSOD, the bogus work e-mails, and LE's words about Lee when Lee was seeking immunity through his attorney: "Lee knows what he has done." Lee may have nothing to do with this but I wonder if he may have 'helped' Casey to cover her tracks after the fact. I am eager to learn more about the origin of this page as far as IP address of originator.

And let's not forget the possible hackers. Did you resd RH's blog concerning this?

Oakley
12-22-2009, 10:34 PM
And let's not forget the possible hackers. Did you resd RH's blog concerning this?

I did. Since he referenced this thread in a negative way, I wonder if he read it through carefully and thoroughly. There has been a thorough analysis of the system code involved with the My Space page conducted by some very technically astute Web Sleuths that I find very compelling and credible.

rhornsby
12-22-2009, 11:02 PM
I did. Since he referenced this thread in a negative way, I wonder if he read it through carefully and thoroughly. There has been a thorough analysis of the system code involved with the My Space page conducted by some very technically astute Web Sleuths that I find very compelling and credible.

I did not read it carefully and thoroughly. As a matter of fact I even said I got a headache trying to read it. I have given a mea culpa several times after getting chewed out by Valhalla.

But for those technically astute people who question my own web prowess. You should know I designed websites in college and law school (made my first site in 1995) and still maintain my own sites. So I am no dummy when it comes to this stuff (I just play one on TV).

With that said, Valhall's comments about people taking my opinion more seriously than others because of my position, etc. is what prompted me to re-examine this MySpace issue AND what prompted me to ask a reporter to make a public records request specifically for any information related to an investigation/discovery of the page.

With that said, it is undeniable that the page was made on 6/16; so I am now a believer.

Now I have read here and there that people don't understand why I am so concerned with when did people know about the Dora the Explorer/Caylee link.

The reason (as a criminal defense attorney who would try to debunk your theory) is that if the Dora link did not come out until long after the case had started, it is more likely that Casey set up the page, because who else would have known she was a Dora fan.

But if the Dora link was well known right away, I would argue that it is more likely that the page was hijacked and set up as a hoax. This is important because it addresses the motive for using Dora as a profile pic.

Now back to the importance of the subpoenas.

A person's IP address is much like a breadcrumb, you leave it wherever you go. So if LE subpoenaed both her local IP records and MySpace IP records for the same IP address AND cross-referenced them, they would need to show she visited the MySpace site on the same time and date as the creation of the page AND showed she was not logged into her personal account during that visitation time. You do that and I am a complete convert. But for now, the encase data is only half the equation.

p.s. The FBI has no superior subpoena power to OCSO when it comes to internet records - that is why I maintain some skepticism.

p.s.s. I <3 Valhalla and Blink :blushing:

Oakley
12-22-2009, 11:13 PM
I did not read it carefully and thoroughly. As a matter of fact I even said I got a headache trying to read it. I have given a mea culpa several times after getting chewed out by Valhalla.

But for those technically astute people who question my own web prowess. You should know I designed websites in college and law school (made my first site in 1995) and still maintain my own sites. So I am no dummy when it comes to this stuff (I just play one on TV).

With that said, Valhall's comments about people taking my opinion more seriously than others because of my position, etc. is what prompted me to re-examine this MySpace issue AND what prompted me to ask a reporter to make a public records request specifically for any information related to an investigation/discovery of the page.

With that said, it is undeniable that the page was made on 6/16; so I am now a believer.

Now I have read here and there that people don't understand why I am so concerned with when did people know about the Dora the Explorer/Caylee link.

The reason (as a criminal defense attorney who would try to debunk your theory) is that if the Dora link did not come out until long after the case had started, it is more likely that Casey set up the page, because who else would have known she was a Dora fan.

But if the Dora link was well known right away, I would argue that it is more likely that the page was hijacked and set up as a hoax. This is important because it addresses the motive for using Dora as a profile pic.

Now back to the importance of the subpoenas.

A person's IP address is much like a breadcrumb, you leave it wherever you go. So if LE subpoenaed both her local IP records and MySpace IP records for the same IP address AND cross-referenced them, they would need to show she visited the MySpace site on the same time and date as the creation of the page AND showed she was not logged into her personal account during that visitation time. You do that and I am a complete convert. But for now, the encase data is only half the equation.

p.s. The FBI has no superior subpoena power to OCSO when it comes to internet records - that is why I maintain some skepticism.

p.s.s. I <3 Valhalla and Blink :blushing:

And I <3 R.Hornsby :blowkiss:

Thank you for keeping an open mind.

Just Jayla
12-22-2009, 11:26 PM
I did not read it carefully and thoroughly. As a matter of fact I even said I got a headache trying to read it. I have given a mea culpa several times after getting chewed out by Valhalla.

But for those technically astute people who question my own web prowess. You should know I designed websites in college and law school (made my first site in 1995) and still maintain my own sites. So I am no dummy when it comes to this stuff (I just play one on TV).

With that said, Valhall's comments about people taking my opinion more seriously than others because of my position, etc. is what prompted me to re-examine this MySpace issue AND what prompted me to ask a reporter to make a public records request specifically for any information related to an investigation/discovery of the page.

With that said, it is undeniable that the page was made on 6/16; so I am now a believer.

Now I have read here and there that people don't understand why I am so concerned with when did people know about the Dora the Explorer/Caylee link.

The reason (as a criminal defense attorney who would try to debunk your theory) is that if the Dora link did not come out until long after the case had started, it is more likely that Casey set up the page. But if the Dora link was well known right away, I would argue that it is more likely that the page was hijacked and set up as a hoax. This is important because it addresses the motive for using Dora as a profile pic.

Now back to the importance of the subpoenas. A person's IP address is much like a breadcrumb, you leave it wherever you go. So if LE subpoenaed both her local IP records MySpace IP records for the same IP address AND cross-referenced them, they would need to show she visited the MySpace site on the same time and date as the creation of the page AND showed she was not logged into her personal account during that visitation time. You do that and I am a complete convert. But for now, the encase data is only half the equation.

p.s. The FBI has no superior subpoena power to OCSO when it comes to internet records - that is why I maintain some skepticism.

p.s.s. I <3 Valhalla and Blink :blushing:

BBM-AZLawyer and Cecy are not chopped liver, either! (sorry, had to give my shout outs)...

I still have to wonder why JWG/Valhall's source shut us down on this one (well, not the source, but LE from whom the source did their sourcing)-If no information comes out of the records request, I then have to go back to whether or not they ever really looked into this. But why wouldn't they? They looked into everything else, even things that seemed fruitless from the start. I just found it odd that Valhall had to ask twice, because it seemed they kind of did not give it much attention when Valhall first tipped them off.
Then they abruptly said it was no dice. If this has been investigated, surely there are communications with MySpace, a written narrative from LE, a physical address for the IP that originally created this space, etc.
If we get a dubious or no answer on this one, then I have to go back and wonder again about the driver's license, as well.

ETA-In addition to knowing about Dora, whoever created this knew about the Miami connection/ZFG's age as well. Otherwise, it would be assumed that ZFG lived in Orlando, as KC stated (until the jail visits when she starts with the Miami, NJ, NY shiznit)

Oakley
12-22-2009, 11:38 PM
BBM-AZLawyer and Cecy are not chopped liver, either! (sorry, had to give my shout outs)...

I still have to wonder why JWG/Valhall's source shut us down on this one (well, not the source, but LE from whom the source did their sourcing)-If no information comes out of the records request, I then have to go back to whether or not they ever really looked into this. But why wouldn't they? They looked into everything else, even things that seemed fruitless from the start. I just found it odd that Valhall had to ask twice, because it seemed they kind of did not give it much attention when Valhall first tipped them off.
Then they abruptly said it was no dice. If this has been investigated, surely there are communications with MySpace, a written narrative from LE, a physical address for the IP that originally created this space, etc.
If we get a dubious or no answer on this one, then I have to go back and wonder again about the driver's license, as well.

ETA-In addition to knowing about Dora, whoever created this knew about the Miami connection/ZFG's age as well. Otherwise, it would be assumed that ZFG lived in Orlando, as KC stated (until the jail visits when she starts with the Miami, NJ, NY shiznit)

Since this case is essentially an on-going investigation, I don't think we would know whether LE checked into this or not. But I do believe they have. JMO.

Imbackon
12-22-2009, 11:49 PM
Per RHornsby
"A person's IP address is much like a breadcrumb, you leave it wherever you go. So if LE subpoenaed both her local IP records and MySpace IP records for the same IP address AND cross-referenced them, they would need to show she visited the MySpace site on the same time and date as the creation of the page AND showed she was not logged into her personal account during that visitation time. You do that and I am a complete convert. But for now, the encase data is only half the equation."

I for one do not believe just because the IP is not KC's, still doesn't mean, this could not have been set up by her.
What if the IP address is for someone she knows and who's computer she had access to for example? TL, RM anyone are all up for grabs to me. The email address and password associated with the original log on would be important I would think as well.

Aug 25th 2008, 400 pages of documents release by osco, is I believe the earliest source of reference to the Dora the Explorer backpack per an article by Cindy Adams, and a few others that I found just doing a google search.
No time to look thru the 400 pages, but I don't have any reason to doubt this as this sounds about right to be that early of a doc dump.
Now when was it the earliest the myspace page was discovered I can't remember but about that time I think. Could be coincidence, could be hijacking, but only checking for KC's IP to match would be a mistake IMO.

rhornsby
12-22-2009, 11:51 PM
Per RHornsby
"A person's IP address is much like a breadcrumb, you leave it wherever you go. So if LE subpoenaed both her local IP records and MySpace IP records for the same IP address AND cross-referenced them, they would need to show she visited the MySpace site on the same time and date as the creation of the page AND showed she was not logged into her personal account during that visitation time. You do that and I am a complete convert. But for now, the encase data is only half the equation."

I for one do not believe just because the IP is not KC's, still doesn't mean, this could not have been set up by her.
What if the IP address is for someone she knows and who's computer she had access to for example? TL, RM anyone are all up for grabs to me. The email address and password associated with the original log on would be important I would think as well.

Aug 25th 2008, 400 pages of documents release by osco, is I believe the earliest source of reference to the Dora the Explorer backpack per an article by Cindy Adams, and a few others that I found just doing a google search.
No time to look thru the 400 pages, but I don't have any reason to doubt this as this sounds about right to be that early of a doc dump.
Now when was it the earliest the myspace page was discovered I can't remember but about that time I think. Could be coincidence, could be hijacking, but only checking for KC's IP to match would be a mistake IMO.

I would agree, but IIRC Valhalla's research put Casey at her parents home on the night the page was created. And the IP is assigned by the internet provider you use - not email account (although that information can oobviously help as well).