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MaconChange
10-25-2008, 06:36 PM
No, I don't think he was raised, although you are right about the number we have gone through...it is amazing really.

Let's get a consensus for this man-his square shaped face, dental plate and nose don't do it for me, and I wonder why police feel he was murdered vs just missing from his life. On initial read, it looks almost like the perfect walk away to me...

Have any of you heard that BK is missing some front teeth? I've been searching all day today and found this article http://blogs.discovery.com/sleuth_truth/2008/08/to-be-or-not-to.html
and remembered reading that Thomas Gregory Demyon was missing his front teeth.

believe09
10-25-2008, 08:39 PM
Have any of you heard that BK is missing some front teeth? I've been searching all day today and found this article http://blogs.discovery.com/sleuth_truth/2008/08/to-be-or-not-to.html
and remembered reading that Thomas Gregory Demyon was missing his front teeth.


BK does have distinct dentals-IIRC no one could tell whether the replaced teeth were as a result of his beating or prior. We know that Demyon has some kind of dental that could be compared...

snowme
10-25-2008, 09:18 PM
Ack, I hadn't realized that Benjaman had teeth missing when found! Not sure how I missed that info before. When I looked at Thomas Demyon at charleyproject I read about the partial plate and would have dismissed him in my mind due to that.

I would think it would have been farily easy for a dentist to tell if Benjaman's lost teeth were a recent occurance or older. Older would certainly have healed gums.

snowme
10-25-2008, 09:26 PM
No, I don't think he was raised, although you are right about the number we have gone through...it is amazing really.

Let's get a consensus for this man-his square shaped face, dental plate and nose don't do it for me, and I wonder why police feel he was murdered vs just missing from his life. On initial read, it looks almost like the perfect walk away to me...

You know I kind of had that same feeling too at first but then I realized the area he's in (lived and where car was found) coupled with his gambling habits, debts mentioned and close vicinity of horse racing tracks.... kind of led me to think in a darker area.

As far as his face: Studied the nose alot and it doesn't seem that the nasal opening goes as far back (from tip of nose to cheek area) as BK's does in a side shot. I wish Demyon didn't have that hat on.

believe09
10-26-2008, 12:28 PM
Ack, I hadn't realized that Benjaman had teeth missing when found! Not sure how I missed that info before. When I looked at Thomas Demyon at charleyproject I read about the partial plate and would have dismissed him in my mind due to that.

I would think it would have been farily easy for a dentist to tell if Benjaman's lost teeth were a recent occurance or older. Older would certainly have healed gums.


my bold-I agree COMPLETELY with you, but ???

christine2448
03-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Please continue here.


Previous threads can be found at the bottom of your page.

carolwood
03-20-2009, 10:42 PM
BEFORE YOU POST A MISSING PERSON FOR DISCUSSION, PLEASE READ THE NEW STICKY THREAD "READ HERE FIRST/DISCUSSION FROM THE 50-60 YR OLD THREADS 1,2,3" ON THE FRONT PAGE OF BENJAMAN KYLE THREADS.
I WILL BE ADDING THE NOW CLOSED THREAD 4 TO THE LIST SOON.

:croc::croc::croc::croc::croc::croc:

link to the new sticky thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81763

Boyz_Mum
03-21-2009, 12:52 AM
I am not sure who to ask, but in the start of each of these new threads, is it possible for someone to post the basics? (ie: date the person "might" have been missing, characteristics, etc...) Just a rundown of where we're aiming?

(I am asking more because after viewing many threads, it's hard to keep the "certains" in order, from each case.)

Thank you all! :o

carolwood
03-21-2009, 01:39 AM
I am not sure who to ask, but in the start of each of these new threads, is it possible for someone to post the basics? (ie: date the person "might" have been missing, characteristics, etc...) Just a rundown of where we're aiming?

(I am asking more because after viewing many threads, it's hard to keep the "certains" in order, from each case.)

Thank you all! :o

I didn't write this down, but I can tell you what thread it came off of and approximate page number, then you can look in that thread, will that help?
I didn't want to congest the thread with particulars on each case. Each one of these have already been discussed, but seems there are some still open for more discussion. If you do start a discussion on a missing person from the new sticky thread, please put the links from the old discussion into new discussion on this thread. Am I making sense?
Just in case I am not, I will post a discussion shortly in here for you to see.

Boyz_Mum
03-21-2009, 01:57 AM
I didn't write this down, but I can tell you what thread it came off of and approximate page number, then you can look in that thread, will that help?
I didn't want to congest the thread with particulars on each case. Each one of these have already been discussed, but seems there are some still open for more discussion. If you do start a discussion on a missing person from the new sticky thread, please put the links from the old discussion into new discussion on this thread. Am I making sense?
Just in case I am not, I will post a discussion shortly in here for you to see.

I didn't want to congest the thread with my question, but I did wonder if others thought it would be a timesaver if there was a "snippet" of important points to consider when making a comparison or reading. (I'm sorry carolwood, my memory is shot to a degree and I wasn't sure if others had problems recalling particulars.) You are all an inspiration and keep up the good work! :clap: You make good sense, I'm just easily confused! LOL!

carolwood
03-21-2009, 02:10 AM
William Wright North:
missing 4-22-1999
age now:56
brown hair, black eyes
160 lbs, 5'10" tall

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200300485W

thread 1, post #7 from:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53847

see also post 30:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1698011&highlight=A200300485W#post1698011

thread 2, #286:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1768492&highlight=william+north#post1768492

(this is a example and not a complete list of the posts that are on 1,2,and 3)

It is hard to find alot of them by names, but if you search for them by the numbers posted on the board, for instance above on Williams, A200300485, this number is listed on post #7, thread 1, and are the last numbers in the post. Sometimes these numbers can be a big help.

Now open for discussion.

*If he has been ruled out, please advise with a link, thanks.

carolwood
03-21-2009, 02:19 AM
I didn't want to congest the thread with my question, but I did wonder if others thought it would be a timesaver if there was a "snippet" of important points to consider when making a comparison or reading. (I'm sorry carolwood, my memory is shot to a degree and I wasn't sure if others had problems recalling particulars.) You are all an inspiration and keep up the good work! :clap: You make good sense, I'm just easily confused! LOL!

No, I absolutely agree, and snipets will be even better but on the new discussion here on this thread.

I will do this over the weekend, putting the thread it came off of and the post numbers, that I come up with, on the sticky thread.

believe09
03-21-2009, 08:11 AM
Carolwood, :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

for your sticky!!!

snowme
03-22-2009, 05:52 PM
Forgive me for asking what may be silly sounding and perhaps already discussed... something struck me as I read dreamweaver's latest post in the theories thread.

Was Benjaman found with his eyes open? I went back to the first discussion thread and see it noted that he was found shortly before 7 a.m. August 31, 2004 (which would have been a Tuesday morning, I believe). According to: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=623&month=8&year=2004&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1 the sun rose at 6:59 a.m. in Savannah that morning.

Regarding the cataracts and damage to his eyes... this wouldn't have allowed time for the intense amount of damage that he suffered.

what am I missing or misconstruing? Was he there, laying naked beside the dumpster, the entire day before (Monday) and absolutely no one caught a glimpse of him?!! Eyes open or not, I would think an entire day or at least hours of direct, intense sun exposure would have been needed to do damage... but he was found before sunrise. (I'm thinking I've obviously missed or forgotten lengthy discussion on this point.)

believe09
03-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Forgive me for asking what may be silly sounding and perhaps already discussed... something struck me as I read dreamweaver's latest post in the theories thread.

Was Benjaman found with his eyes open? I went back to the first discussion thread and see it noted that he was found shortly before 7 a.m. August 31, 2004 (which would have been a Tuesday morning, I believe). According to: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=623&month=8&year=2004&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1 the sun rose at 6:59 a.m. in Savannah that morning.

Regarding the cataracts and damage to his eyes... this wouldn't have allowed time for the intense amount of damage that he suffered.

what am I missing or misconstruing? Was he there, laying naked beside the dumpster, the entire day before (Monday) and absolutely no one caught a glimpse of him?!! Eyes open or not, I would think an entire day or at least hours of direct, intense sun exposure would have been needed to do damage... but he was found before sunrise. (I'm thinking I've obviously missed or forgotten lengthy discussion on this point.)

You have it just about right-we have done much speculating on the possible length of time he might have been there, assuming the folks at BK dumped the garbage at least once per day. IIRC the most we came up with was something like 19 hours-of that time, what was actual daylight and was he in the direct sun long enough to 1.) get sunburned and 2.) have cataracts form but not have burned retina's.

This is where I diverge from what has been reported-I believe (just my own opinion) that BK's field of vision was closing or clouded by cataracts before he was injured-I think eyes open in the direct sun would have caused damage to his retina's rather than cataracts to form....even if they were traumatic cataracts. Again, just my opinion as a lay person. Further, when his vision was restored, he thought he had lost 20 years in his appearance.

Beyond that, he was still sweating when he was found-so I don't believe he was in shock or on the verge of sun-stroke.

I would have to believe that there would be frequent trips to the dumpsters during the hours they were open-yet there was a cleaning woman who found him early in the AM lying there. And long enough to be chewed up by fire ants. Ugh.

Cubby
03-22-2009, 06:14 PM
I didn't want to congest the thread with my question, but I did wonder if others thought it would be a timesaver if there was a "snippet" of important points to consider when making a comparison or reading. (I'm sorry carolwood, my memory is shot to a degree and I wasn't sure if others had problems recalling particulars.) You are all an inspiration and keep up the good work! :clap: You make good sense, I'm just easily confused! LOL!

There is a sticky in the possible match forum on what to consider with a possible match.
hth

snowme
03-22-2009, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Believe. Reading your words helps me remember reading some of the discussion on it before.. .phew... thought I was losing it.. well, maybe I am, lol... but I digress!

Those are interesting points to ponder, the time necessary to do this damage or that, and if could be pinpointed to a bit of accuracy (had better notice of the situation been documented in the first place) would have great impact on ruling out (and in) certain possibilities, I think. Ugh and splat.

Thanks again Believe for helping me not go thru that rollercoaster ride longer than was necessary. :-)

RhythmicSun
03-22-2009, 06:37 PM
Does anyone have copies of the 7 parts of YouTube videos from the Dr. Phil show? They are no longer available. I emailed EyesForLies and she seemed interested in taking a look at them to see what might be gained. Obviously, we are not looking for lies but subconscious memories. Let me know if you think this is not a good avenue to pursue.

If anyone has saved these or knows where to find them, and thinks it is a good idea, please forward to Eyes at her blog EyesForLies. Thanks.

PS I did forward to her the link to the short news clip from approx. 3 years after he was found.

Boyz_Mum
03-22-2009, 07:12 PM
Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!):blowkiss:

hoppyfrog
03-22-2009, 07:27 PM
You have it just about right-we have done much speculating on the possible length of time he might have been there, assuming the folks at BK dumped the garbage at least once per day. IIRC the most we came up with was something like 19 hours-of that time, what was actual daylight and was he in the direct sun long enough to 1.) get sunburned and 2.) have cataracts form but not have burned retina's.

This is where I diverge from what has been reported-I believe (just my own opinion) that BK's field of vision was closing or clouded by cataracts before he was injured-I think eyes open in the direct sun would have caused damage to his retina's rather than cataracts to form....even if they were traumatic cataracts. Again, just my opinion as a lay person. Further, when his vision was restored, he thought he had lost 20 years in his appearance.

Beyond that, he was still sweating when he was found-so I don't believe he was in shock or on the verge of sun-stroke.

I would have to believe that there would be frequent trips to the dumpsters during the hours they were open-yet there was a cleaning woman who found him early in the AM lying there. And long enough to be chewed up by fire ants. Ugh.

Hey, believe! Please clear out your pm box!

tia,

Hoppy

believe09
03-22-2009, 07:51 PM
Hey, believe! Please clear out your pm box!

tia,

Hoppy

done...

believe09
03-22-2009, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Believe. Reading your words helps me remember reading some of the discussion on it before.. .phew... thought I was losing it.. well, maybe I am, lol... but I digress!

Those are interesting points to ponder, the time necessary to do this damage or that, and if could be pinpointed to a bit of accuracy (had better notice of the situation been documented in the first place) would have great impact on ruling out (and in) certain possibilities, I think. Ugh and splat.

Thanks again Believe for helping me not go thru that rollercoaster ride longer than was necessary. :-)

:blowkiss::blowkiss: YW; no problem. I loved that discussion, BTW-there was some cool poster who checked in with some visions specialists..IIRC the poster was in England...but the specialist indicated that the kind of cataracts he had would have to have been accelerated by long term drug abuse or alcoholism-NEITHER applies to BK, so the other option was long term exposure to the outdoors...not 19 or less hours outside of the Burger King.

FWIW, I had another spirited discussion with our BK regarding this issue-he said the doctors who restored his vision said that it was possible to form traumatic cataracts that quickly-as usual, clear as mud lol!!!

believe09
03-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!):blowkiss:

I so get this point-My dad was from Brooklyn and people frequently think I grew up in NY, although I am dyed in the wool "Pahk-the-cahr-in-Hahhvaadd-yaahdd" NE. My dad would not permit the "Boston" accent in our home, lol.

BK is very well spoken and learn-ed in the true sense of the word...but...I wonder if he is well-read vs very highly educated, which is not to say that he does not have a degree of some kind. He seems to have a broad knowledge of language, but in an old world sense.

Boyz_Mum
03-22-2009, 09:13 PM
I so get this point-My dad was from Brooklyn and people frequently think I grew up in NY, although I am dyed in the wool "Pahk-the-cahr-in-Hahhvaadd-yaahdd" NE. My dad would not permit the "Boston" accent in our home, lol.

BK is very well spoken and learn-ed in the true sense of the word...but...I wonder if he is well-read vs very highly educated, which is not to say that he does not have a degree of some kind. He seems to have a broad knowledge of language, but in an old world sense.

Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input! :blowkiss:

bluestarzz
03-22-2009, 09:36 PM
this might seem really bizarre, has anyone ever thought he could have been originally a "stolen child?", and have no other family other than parents.
blue

believe09
03-22-2009, 09:41 PM
this might seem really bizarre, has anyone ever thought he could have been originally a "stolen child?", and have no other family other than parents.
blue


Not bizarre at all bluestarzz-this has been hashed a little and a child who was abducted 50 years ago was submitted, IIRC. At the minimum, he may have been an orphan or "in the system" although he remembers brothers...

believe09
03-22-2009, 09:45 PM
Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input! :blowkiss:

Lol...I have an "Ahnt" vs an "Ant" which most people use to peg my location pretty quick...I am a "soda" vs "pop", "submarine sandwich" vs "grinder" and "tomaytoe" vs "tomahtoe" although I do say "ahnvelope" vs "envelope"....Damn those Brahmins.

carolwood
03-22-2009, 10:56 PM
Forgive me for asking what may be silly sounding and perhaps already discussed... something struck me as I read dreamweaver's latest post in the theories thread.

Was Benjaman found with his eyes open? I went back to the first discussion thread and see it noted that he was found shortly before 7 a.m. August 31, 2004 (which would have been a Tuesday morning, I believe). According to: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=623&month=8&year=2004&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1 the sun rose at 6:59 a.m. in Savannah that morning.

Regarding the cataracts and damage to his eyes... this wouldn't have allowed time for the intense amount of damage that he suffered.

what am I missing or misconstruing? Was he there, laying naked beside the dumpster, the entire day before (Monday) and absolutely no one caught a glimpse of him?!! Eyes open or not, I would think an entire day or at least hours of direct, intense sun exposure would have been needed to do damage... but he was found before sunrise. (I'm thinking I've obviously missed or forgotten lengthy discussion on this point.)

I am glad you bring this up, I just noticed something, I have to comment about. I am looking at the photo of Ben standing next to the dumpster at Burger King. Behind the dumpster is a wall where there is a gap that can be seen.
On the right side of the dumpster, looks as though there is a wall and the dumpster is butted right next to it.
The only open I see, looking at the pic is the left side where Ben is standing (AND WHERE HE MUST HAVE BEEN FOUND) and the front of the dumpster.
Most Burger Kings are set up this same standard way, with the dumpster to the side(left or right) and to the very back of the lot(lots are small, probably less that 210 x 210 which is an acre, and the lot is wide open, except for the BK building. Usually employees are asked to park in the back or farther away so patrons can park in the closer spots.
Burger King employees usually go to work at around 3 -5 am if they serve breakfast which most do. And if they are serving breakfast, they start around 5:30 am. People will be going to the drive thru. People leaving driving around the building to get out the parking lot.
HOW DID THEY(THINKING PROBABLY 4 EMPLOYEES) NOT SEE BENJAMAN? HOW DID PATRONS NOT SEE BENJAMAN? UNTIL 7 AM?
JUST DOESN'T ADD UP, UNLESS HE WAS DUMPED ABOUT THAT TIME?

dreamweaver
03-22-2009, 11:22 PM
I am glad you bring this up, I just noticed something, I have to comment about. I am looking at the photo of Ben standing next to the dumpster at Burger King. Behind the dumpster is a wall where there is a gap that can be seen.
On the right side of the dumpster, looks as though there is a wall and the dumpster is butted right next to it.
The only open I see, looking at the pic is the left side where Ben is standing (AND WHERE HE MUST HAVE BEEN FOUND) and the front of the dumpster.
Most Burger Kings are set up this same standard way, with the dumpster to the side(left or right) and to the very back of the lot(lots are small, probably less that 210 x 210 which is an acre, and the lot is wide open, except for the BK building. Usually employees are asked to park in the back or farther away so patrons can park in the closer spots.
Burger King employees usually go to work at around 3 -5 am if they serve breakfast which most do. And if they are serving breakfast, they start around 5:30 am. People will be going to the drive thru. People leaving driving around the building to get out the parking lot.
HOW DID THEY(THINKING PROBABLY 4 EMPLOYEES) NOT SEE BENJAMAN? HOW DID PATRONS NOT SEE BENJAMAN? UNTIL 7 AM?
JUST DOESN'T ADD UP, UNLESS HE WAS DUMPED ABOUT THAT TIME?----------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
carolwood:
I agree about the dumpster.
It is over 6 ft tall.
The employee did see BK, as we know, first thing in the morning.

I think BK was mugged, abducted, beaten taken Sun. night,
or very early Mon. morning, left out somewhere the sun got to his eyes
and the fire ants got to him and then later, early Tues. morning, put next to the dumpster. Maybe even the attackers thought they would put him in the dumpster, but it was too high for them.
Fire ants bites not only cause sores, but cause sweating.
http://www.fireant.net/Bites/

dreamweaver
03-22-2009, 11:26 PM
Does anyone have copies of the 7 parts of YouTube videos from the Dr. Phil show? They are no longer available. I emailed EyesForLies and she seemed interested in taking a look at them to see what might be gained. Obviously, we are not looking for lies but subconscious memories. Let me know if you think this is not a good avenue to pursue.

If anyone has saved these or knows where to find them, and thinks it is a good idea, please forward to Eyes at her blog EyesForLies. Thanks.

PS I did forward to her the link to the short news clip from approx. 3 years after he was found.
----------------------------------------------------------
RhythmicSun:
I like EyesforLies too.
I could not find the video from Dr Phil show.
But, it is for sale through Dr Phil for $29.95.
Seems a tad high.

http://www.myspace.com/127099176
My space has him speaking for over a minute.

snowme
03-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Regarding his speech/accent etc. I get what you (Boyz Mum & Believe) are saying. I know many people who have certain phrases or pronunciations within their normal, everyday speaking that defy their regional environment but rather it comes from older family who brought it with them from a previous area of living and it's been carried over in the next generation.

I wonder how quickly we pick up things like that or drop things like that. Believe, since you've spoken with him, has it ever been asked or said that Benjaman sounds different than the people he's around now... or "talks funny" by comparison? I wonder if in the beginning people who were getting to know him felt he was a visitor to the area and not local due to his way of speaking or choice of word here or there.

After having seen/heard him on Dr. Phil and the one snippet video prior to that - and in conjuction with other things read here - I've always had the impression that he was a very intelligent, perhaps even well-read, hard working average joe. I think people who are highly intelligent give themselves away to that fact within their speech without necessarily intending to. This doesn't mean I don't think he's had an extensive education but I just don't get that vibe.

Hi bluestarzz... Believe was right we did discuss that idea. The little boy she was trying to think of was Andy Sims. If you search the forum you should come up with links to articles on him and photos, etc. I'm not sure off the top of my head how long ago he was brought up to find him faster for you.

snowme
03-22-2009, 11:40 PM
I've had my share of fire ant bites. In fact, at this moment I've still got the scarring marks left by 4 bites I recieved approx. 3 mos. ago. They are wicked! Eventually they will vanish (at least for me) but they definitely get red around the bite spot, and almost always raise and fill with pus. The venom is strong stuff.

I can't imagine what it would be like to lay near or in a fire ant "nest" or mound and be bitten over and over. At least I don't like imagining it.

----------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
carolwood:
I agree about the dumpster.
It is over 6 ft tall.
The employee did see BK, as we know, first thing in the morning.

I think BK was mugged, abducted, beaten taken Sun. night,
or very early Mon. morning, left out somewhere the sun got to his eyes
and the fire ants got to him and then later, early Tues. morning, put next to the dumpster. Maybe even the attackers thought they would put him in the dumpster, but it was too high for them.
Fire ants bites not only cause sores, but cause sweating.
http://www.fireant.net/Bites/

carolwood
03-22-2009, 11:46 PM
----------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
carolwood:
I agree about the dumpster.
It is over 6 ft tall.
The employee did see BK, as we know, first thing in the morning.

I think BK was mugged, abducted, beaten taken Sun. night,
or very early Mon. morning, left out somewhere the sun got to his eyes
and the fire ants got to him and then later, early Tues. morning, put next to the dumpster. Maybe even the attackers thought they would put him in the dumpster, but it was too high for them.
Fire ants bites not only cause sores, but cause sweating.
http://www.fireant.net/Bites/

I have to agree with the statement of being dumped around the time he was found by the employee/s.

Julessleuther
03-23-2009, 02:10 AM
I agree with you Boyz_Mum. My parents were from Long Island (NY). I didn't live there, but did go back every summer for 2-3 weeks to stay with my grandparents. At the end of those three weeks, between having heard my parents accents, and the accents of the people around me, I would go back home speaking Laaaawng Islandish. I do believe that we can pick up mannerisms and speech from our friends/family and not just our present location. Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!):blowkiss:

snowme
03-23-2009, 02:58 AM
Ok, this just wouldn't get out of my head - I had to get up from bed and ask.

Carol, I've missed this photo .. Ben next to the dumpster at Burger King. Where is this photo? I looked in the Photos of Ben thread but no go.

Also, I'm sure it's been discussed ... a fast food places dumpster is emptied quite frequently, is it not? As well as the grease container that often sits right beside it (or is that a more recent thing?). He would have certainly been seen had the garbage been picked up so depending on the pickup schedule for that dumpster (day and time) there is only so much time that he could have been there.

Say the dumpster is emptied daily at 9 a.m. that would mean he could not have been there before 9 a.m. Monday the 30th. So it limits at least the range of time for Benjaman to find himself at the location, however it came to be.

I know lately I'm definitely not hitting on all cylinders and I'm sure I'm late to the party in finding that such a "wow" thing... but in a small way it is a wow thing because tightening a timeframe can eliminate some possible theories that might not otherwise be eliminated.

Back to bed with me before I go full circle! If I didn't make sense, just pat me on the head and tell me "there, there, get some rest", LOL.

I am glad you bring this up, I just noticed something, I have to comment about. I am looking at the photo of Ben standing next to the dumpster at Burger King. Behind the dumpster is a wall where there is a gap that can be seen.
On the right side of the dumpster, looks as though there is a wall and the dumpster is butted right next to it.
The only open I see, looking at the pic is the left side where Ben is standing (AND WHERE HE MUST HAVE BEEN FOUND) and the front of the dumpster.
Most Burger Kings are set up this same standard way, with the dumpster to the side(left or right) and to the very back of the lot(lots are small, probably less that 210 x 210 which is an acre, and the lot is wide open, except for the BK building. Usually employees are asked to park in the back or farther away so patrons can park in the closer spots.
Burger King employees usually go to work at around 3 -5 am if they serve breakfast which most do. And if they are serving breakfast, they start around 5:30 am. People will be going to the drive thru. People leaving driving around the building to get out the parking lot.
HOW DID THEY(THINKING PROBABLY 4 EMPLOYEES) NOT SEE BENJAMAN? HOW DID PATRONS NOT SEE BENJAMAN? UNTIL 7 AM?
JUST DOESN'T ADD UP, UNLESS HE WAS DUMPED ABOUT THAT TIME?

Roselvr
03-23-2009, 06:30 AM
Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input! :blowkiss:

Just woke up but I'm confused... I'm in NJ, east coast, everything you posted is not true of me.. Don is Don, Dawn is Dawn.

Ok, this just wouldn't get out of my head - I had to get up from bed and ask.

Carol, I've missed this photo .. Ben next to the dumpster at Burger King. Where is this photo? I looked in the Photos of Ben thread but no go.

I have it. I saved it from one of the older threads, Gina posted part of the National Enquirer article. I contacted her, she sent me everything. I'm going to be stitching the article back together then will add the pics to the photo thread and make my "Ben" photo album public so that all photos/fliers of him will be in one spot.

I'll have time today to work on this. I've been using 2 computers to save stuff, yesterday I went through both to get them both the same, Today will be work on his stuff.

believe09
03-23-2009, 09:19 AM
Regarding Mr. Kyle's speech pattern now-I don't think that he has much of a drawl that has crept in. Unlike NY, NJ, New England, he does not speak at a fast clipped rate...he speaks methodically.

I had a loved one who had a trach and a lot of throat surgery at varying times-Mr. Kyle has the same raspieness to me of someone who has polyps, or scar tissue or something similar. Not a smoker's voice. Hard to describe by writing.

Boyz_Mum
03-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Regarding Mr. Kyle's speech pattern now-I don't think that he has much of a drawl that has crept in. Unlike NY, NJ, New England, he does not speak at a fast clipped rate...he speaks methodically.

I had a loved one who had a trach and a lot of throat surgery at varying times-Mr. Kyle has the same raspieness to me of someone who has polyps, or scar tissue or something similar. Not a smoker's voice. Hard to describe by writing.

Do you know if Mr Kyle has his tonsils? (If he has them, do they show signs of being scarred- if he knows?) Not that frequent throat infections or a lack of tonsils would identify him, I am just wondering if the raspiness you speak of could be tonsil related?

In regards to his speach, I guess I was more curious whether it's a good indicator of his past life as far as the linguistics are concerned. So many variables confuse me~ thanks everyone for being patient with my questions!

carolwood
03-23-2009, 11:02 AM
Ok, this just wouldn't get out of my head - I had to get up from bed and ask.

Carol, I've missed this photo .. Ben next to the dumpster at Burger King. Where is this photo? I looked in the Photos of Ben thread but no go.

Also, I'm sure it's been discussed ... a fast food places dumpster is emptied quite frequently, is it not? As well as the grease container that often sits right beside it (or is that a more recent thing?). He would have certainly been seen had the garbage been picked up so depending on the pickup schedule for that dumpster (day and time) there is only so much time that he could have been there.

Say the dumpster is emptied daily at 9 a.m. that would mean he could not have been there before 9 a.m. Monday the 30th. So it limits at least the range of time for Benjaman to find himself at the location, however it came to be.

I know lately I'm definitely not hitting on all cylinders and I'm sure I'm late to the party in finding that such a "wow" thing... but in a small way it is a wow thing because tightening a timeframe can eliminate some possible theories that might not otherwise be eliminated.

Back to bed with me before I go full circle! If I didn't make sense, just pat me on the head and tell me "there, there, get some rest", LOL.

Roselvr has the photo on here picasa account. It was the one from the National E article, I think posted by Gina, and is somewhere in the threads. As Roselvr said, she will post this today.

Yes, I would think the dumpsters are dumped quite often, probably 3-4 times a week, maybe.(I can find this out, have a friend, shift mgr at mcd's)

Scenario I see. Burger King serves breakfast starting at 5 am. Employees get there at 3 am. (dumpster to the right corner of lot, wall in the back of it, wall on right side of it as the pic shows)
The nite before, Burger King closes at 12 am, employees dumping the trash at 12:30 am or so, no Ben. By 12:45 am, nite employees leave. no Ben.
Morning shift returns at 3 am, parking near dumpster but cannot block the dumpster area, no Ben.
(employees are asked, at any place they work to park fartherest away, so patrons get the good spots, and BK parking lots aren't very big to start, well the olders BK's anyway, the newer ones are quite a bit larger, and I am thinking since this one is closed, it was probably a old location, with a smaller lot)
Morning crew begins opening the boxes for the breakfast crowd, which starts at 5 am.(pile the boxes, at the back door, which will be put in the dumpster after the 5 - 7 am rush of patrons, going throught the drive thru and coming in to eat.
(if Ben would of been there, someone would have noticed him, especially going throught the drive thru)
Ben is discovered around 7 am, assuming this is the time 911 got the call, not time he was picked up and taken to the hospital.
(I was a volunteer fire fighter and first responder in training, when 911 gets the call, this is the document time. ambulance will have the time they picked him up, and LE will have a time they got on scene, it's how it was done when I was in it in the late 90's and I was in a rural area, fire dept. and first responders were usually always at the scene first(we were right in the area), LE and Ambulance usually arriving at the same time coming from 15 - 20 miles away.)
Ben is discovered at the time employee dumps the trash in the dumpster at 7 am, 911 call made.
My point, looking at the pic, you can see he was dumped on the left side of the dumpster in the same area which Ben is standing, not in the back(report says on the side, is what I have read) and I don't think there was room on the right side because of the fence. Patrons especially going through the drive thru window, would have seen him, especially naked, and would have reported it.
I know if it would have been me who would have seen this, I would call 911, and report a naked man by the dumpster, then when I pulled up to get the food would have made the employee at the window aware of it also, and told her I had called 911. (I also would have got out the vehicle and checked the person for a pulse, but this is what I have been trained to do. But as a average joe, i would have done the 911 call and let the employees know what I saw by the dumpster)
I just can't see that someone would not have done anything if they would have saw him there. You have to figure probably 100 or so people will go through the parking lot on a typical morning and have to see the dumpster, it is not completely closed in, as some are in some places.
Another thought, would be someone saw him while going to the drive thru, and reported to the employee, because they had no cell phone to call 911 themselves, and employee at pick up window did nothing about it. I find this a little unbelievable, being he was naked.

SNOWME, I FOUND THE PHOTO

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/ginad42/BKEnquirer.jpg

carolwood
03-23-2009, 11:38 AM
Looking at the photo, it doesn't seem that the dumpster is in a enclosed area. The truck that would come to dump it, would pick it up from the front, you can see where the arms would slide in, directly behind Ben.

dreamweaver
03-23-2009, 01:10 PM
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/health_science/story/1454594.html
DNA story about a missing father and years later, an 82 yr old man reunited with a sister he never knew.

believe09
03-23-2009, 01:18 PM
Do you know if Mr Kyle has his tonsils? (If he has them, do they show signs of being scarred- if he knows?) Not that frequent throat infections or a lack of tonsils would identify him, I am just wondering if the raspiness you speak of could be tonsil related?

In regards to his speach, I guess I was more curious whether it's a good indicator of his past life as far as the linguistics are concerned. So many variables confuse me~ thanks everyone for being patient with my questions!


Good question-I will ask him. For me the raspieness is less about ID and more about my curiosity, lol...

believe09
03-23-2009, 01:23 PM
I do not have a sense of whether or not there was a population of homeless that might have checked the dumpster or slept near it-this might have some bearing on whether or not someone responded quickly to a report of it. Further, I wonder how apparent it might have been that Mr. Kyle was naked,vs just had his shirt off?

RhythmicSun
03-23-2009, 01:27 PM
Please forgive me if this question has been asked before. Is there a way Benjaman could obtain a temporary SSN so that he can at least start building a life? Surely in this day and age of technology records could be transferred over after his true identity is found.

carolwood
03-23-2009, 02:10 PM
I do not have a sense of whether or not there was a population of homeless that might have checked the dumpster or slept near it-this might have some bearing on whether or not someone responded quickly to a report of it. Further, I wonder how apparent it might have been that Mr. Kyle was naked,vs just had his shirt off?
I agree, if he was facing with his head to the front of the dumpster and feet to the back towards the fence, it might would be thought he just had no shirt on.
I will ask this question at the next months lady's club meeting. We have 12 members, so this could give a idea as to the response of a woman going thru a drive thru window and see something like this basically around sunbreak.
Then I will report what they say.

believe09
03-23-2009, 02:21 PM
Please forgive me if this question has been asked before. Is there a way Benjaman could obtain a temporary SSN so that he can at least start building a life? Surely in this day and age of technology records could be transferred over after his true identity is found.

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

I want more than anything for this to happen, RS-in our post 9/11 world however it will take legal representation and going before a judge. Trust me-we have tried the GA legislature as well as Social Security. HOWEVER, if we can get BK some legal help, it is conceivable that a judge would do this in short order. If anyone has contacts, please let me know. We have gone through the Legal Aid Society in GA and taken it to the mat. They are singularly uninterested in doing the work it will take.:(:(:(

RhythmicSun
03-23-2009, 02:33 PM
That just seems odd. What is Legal Aid there for? I'm surprised that an attorney has not worked on that aspect pro bono, except for the fact they wouldn't want any repercussions if something untoward comes out of Benjaman's past.

I received a message from EyesForLies who stated that Bejaman appears genuine (she looked at the short video I mentioned upthread).

dreamweaver
03-23-2009, 02:42 PM
:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

I want more than anything for this to happen, RS-in our post 9/11 world however it will take legal representation and going before a judge. Trust me-we have tried the GA legislature as well as Social Security. HOWEVER, if we can get BK some legal help, it is conceivable that a judge would do this in short order. If anyone has contacts, please let me know. We have gone through the Legal Aid Society in GA and taken it to the mat. They are singularly uninterested in doing the work it will take.:(:(:(
---------------------------------------------------------------
I know that I read Rep Jack Kingston, GA, has been involved with BK's case. I don't think he was able to move SSA from their position.

And I remember reading that SSA said they needed Benjaman K's medical records, that they could not just make a decision based on news reports.
If BK now has his medical reports, it may make all the difference.

And in a story I posted about amnesia victim, Nigel, a governor's office of advocates helped Nigel find his identity.

Let me check and see if Georgia has ombudsman for victims.
I know my home state of Oregon does.

dreamweaver
03-23-2009, 02:43 PM
That just seems odd. What is Legal Aid there for? I'm surprised that an attorney has not worked on that aspect pro bono, except for the fact they wouldn't want any repercussions if something untoward comes out of Benjaman's past.

I received a message from EyesForLies who stated that Bejaman appears genuine (she looked at the short video I mentioned upthread).-----------------------------------------------------------
Nice to get confirmation from eyesforlies that Benjaman appears genuine. I think that is the sense we all get.

carolwood
03-23-2009, 03:01 PM
:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

I want more than anything for this to happen, RS-in our post 9/11 world however it will take legal representation and going before a judge. Trust me-we have tried the GA legislature as well as Social Security. HOWEVER, if we can get BK some legal help, it is conceivable that a judge would do this in short order. If anyone has contacts, please let me know. We have gone through the Legal Aid Society in GA and taken it to the mat. They are singularly uninterested in doing the work it will take.:(:(:(

I just thought of something, doesn't Georgia have a POWELL who is a representatve or congressman? Maybe try working from this angle?

dreamweaver
03-23-2009, 03:06 PM
State SCSEP Administration
Georgia DHR Division of Aging Services
Sarah Collins, SCSEP Director
706-254-0937
slcollins@dhr.state.ga.us (slcollins@dhr.state.ga.us)
Emailed Ms Collins about any
help they can offer Benjaman Kyle
in terms of getting his ssn.

dreamweaver
03-23-2009, 03:09 PM
I just thought of something, doesn't Georgia have a POWELL who is a representatve or congressman? Maybe try working from this angle?
----------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.broc.state.ga.us/legis/2009_10/senate/powellbio.php
State Rep. Powell.

Roselvr
03-23-2009, 04:25 PM
My son managed a few Burger Kings in NJ, he said theirs got emptied twice a week. I asked if Monday & Thursday sounded right, he said something like that.

Below is the NE article cropped for the dumpster. Just finished editing the pics. Once I drive my daughter & cook I will upload to the photo thread.

Roselvr
03-23-2009, 04:35 PM
I just added all the stuff from the Enquirer to the pictures post.

Both pieces of what Gina scanned then the stuff I cropped and the article stitched back together which I worked on today. Sorry for the delay.

Roselvr
03-23-2009, 05:44 PM
I spoke to my son again, while he worked nights, he said that when the morning shift came in depended on who was opening.

He said some people needed 30 minutes to get ready while others needed more time.

Now, on the night end, I can tell you that some nights he didn't get home until 2am depending on what store he worked in. There was a lot for him to do at night, they changed grease, paperwork, misc heavy cleaning, putting away food when a truck came. He worked in a mall last, the mall closed at 10, he usually got home anywhere from 11ish to 2 or 3; it was a 30 minute drive.

What I wonder is if this Burger King has a classmates page? I have one for the family business.
I wonder if someone is willing to take on making the page at classmates? I don't recall having to "prove" who I was when making the page for our business.
I also wonder if there was 1 dumpster or 2. Some BK's had 2 (from memory of when I was a customer)
One for trash the other for boxes.

RhythmicSun
03-23-2009, 06:23 PM
Hi Roselvr, do you mean Facebook? Not sure I've ever seen such a thing on Classmates.

Roselvr
03-23-2009, 07:53 PM
No classmates.
They have a job feature.

Ok just logged in - it's Classmates Communities

Roselvr
03-23-2009, 07:57 PM
----------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.broc.state.ga.us/legis/2009_10/senate/powellbio.php
State Rep. Powell.

Have to look for more images but quick look, nose & eye shape.

dreamweaver
03-24-2009, 12:26 AM
FYI:
On SSA online email, on suggestion form, that Benjaman Kyle needed help getting
a ssn. I gave a quick synopsis of his situation.
I will not get a return email from them. But I did give FBI Bill's info. to ssa.
I hope they help him.
On online ssa email, I also listed BK as a victim on a fraud complaint. Again, explaining in brief what his situation is. And asking for ssa to help get BK a ssn.

I hope I did not overstep any boundaries.
But, the worst thing could be is SSA ignores it all and does nothing.

christine2448
03-24-2009, 08:12 PM
PLEASE DO NOT POST OR DISCUSS POTENTIAL MATCHES IN THIS THREAD. IT IS FOR GENERAL DICUSSION ON THIS CASE.

IF YOU HAVE FEEL YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL MATCH THAT NEEDS MORE INVESTIGATION POST HERE
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78507&page=2

snowme
03-25-2009, 06:54 PM
Thanks Carol.. and Roselvr for posts and that pic... somehow I missed that. What finally prompted me to sign up and start posting was Benjaman's case - before that I read only as a lurker and probably was not able to see photos and such.

Thanks for the efforts! :-)

dreamweaver
03-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Questions:
Have we heard any news about the extended dna testing BK did?

Any concrete results from the x ray done?

What about the dental results? Was there anything pointing to a certain time period? Say, silver fillings 20 years old? A technique not practiced in 20 years?

Did the scanning of drivers license photos ever get done? I know it seemed like a lot of the technology was not in place yet.

I have sent a number of emails to magazine shows about BK. I know others have as well. Has any of them contacted BK or FBI?

Dr Phil planning any kind of an update show? I have emailed him as well.

dreamweaver
03-30-2009, 03:22 PM
What if BK went to a restaurant equipment convention and/or a food/beverage industry convention? Maybe one in GA?
Perhaps he would be recognized?
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Future+convention+activities+2009.-a0194331183
link to only one site that lists some of the conventions for 2009.

snowme
03-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Good questions. I have been wondering on a few of them myself, especially the dentist and the driver license scanning.

Questions:
Have we heard any news about the extended dna testing BK did?

Any concrete results from the x ray done?

What about the dental results? Was there anything pointing to a certain time period? Say, silver fillings 20 years old? A technique not practiced in 20 years?

Did the scanning of drivers license photos ever get done? I know it seemed like a lot of the technology was not in place yet.

I have sent a number of emails to magazine shows about BK. I know others have as well. Has any of them contacted BK or FBI?

Dr Phil planning any kind of an update show? I have emailed him as well.

Boyz_Mum
03-31-2009, 12:33 AM
Even though the DNA and Powell link may be insignificant, is there a thread for that? Should there be a thread for that? (Did I miss a thread for that and should I have asked these questions here?)...

:waitasec:

snowme
03-31-2009, 01:29 AM
Boyzmum, the DNA thread is here, and contains some Powell discussion: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79987&highlight=powell

And quite a bit of Powell discussion was in the #4 thread, starting around post 450 and on. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74222

(I love the way you post... made me giggle a bit.)

Boyz_Mum
03-31-2009, 09:33 AM
Boyzmum, the DNA thread is here, and contains some Powell discussion: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79987&highlight=powell

And quite a bit of Powell discussion was in the #4 thread, starting around post 450 and on. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74222

(I love the way you post... made me giggle a bit.)

Thank you all for your patience and directions. I've only been here 4 years and am still trying to learn the subcategories and post in the correct places. :bang:

snowme
04-02-2009, 05:10 AM
Thank you all for your patience and directions. I've only been here 4 years and am still trying to learn the subcategories and post in the correct places. :bang:

I have a hard time finding my way around too sometimes! :)

carolwood
04-02-2009, 07:20 PM
I have posted in 4 more states with topix. Arkansas, Kentucky, North Carolina and Virginia. If anyone wants a list of where it is posted, please let me know, I could sure use help with bumping the thread to the front of the forum boards.
Also, I have been thinking of posting in Canada and Europe, what are your thoughts on this???

snowme
04-04-2009, 05:12 PM
I have posted in 4 more states with topix. Arkansas, Kentucky, North Carolina and Virginia. If anyone wants a list of where it is posted, please let me know, I could sure use help with bumping the thread to the front of the forum boards.
Also, I have been thinking of posting in Canada and Europe, what are your thoughts on this???

I'll help ya bump them up Carolwood, can you send it thru PM or need an email for something larger or attachments. If you don't still have my email let me know.

RhythmicSun
04-04-2009, 11:22 PM
I'm not sure how Topix works. It seems pretty vast the few times I've checked it out. If anyone wants to PM me with the info though, I'll be glad to help!

carolwood
04-05-2009, 11:38 PM
I just had a person on topix, called Missouri Man, who suggested we ask Walmart to put his photo in the entrance ways where they have the bulletin boards at, what a wonderful idea. thoughts?

RhythmicSun
04-06-2009, 01:05 AM
Yes, I think that is a good idea. What areas? Indiana, Colorado and .... ?

carolwood
04-06-2009, 09:19 AM
Yes, I think that is a good idea. What areas? Indiana, Colorado and .... ?

I'm thinking maybe call Bentonville, Arkansas where the main office is, and HR could probably tell who we need to speak to about this. I hope they say send enough copies to put in all stores. I have noticed at some of the walmarts that the bulletin boards have glass on them, which means, someone would have to open it and place it in there. They may also leave this to the stores themselves at doing this, but not sure.

Boyz_Mum
04-06-2009, 09:56 AM
I'm thinking maybe call Bentonville, Arkansas where the main office is, and HR could probably tell who we need to speak to about this. I hope they say send enough copies to put in all stores. I have noticed at some of the walmarts that the bulletin boards have glass on them, which means, someone would have to open it and place it in there. They may also leave this to the stores themselves at doing this, but not sure.

In regards to Walmart and SAM'S Clubs, this sounds like a good place to start. Because there are so many stores, nationwide, it might be good to ask if a copy of a flyer could be faxed from headquarters to all stores~ otherwise it's an awful lot of copies to send out?

Other grocery stores seem to have the bulletin board that anyone can hang "stuff" on. (Not needing clearance from mgmt.)

carolwood
04-07-2009, 11:07 PM
Just a small update. Today I decided a different approach to help identify Ben. I decided to post on a couple of boards on topix, "Do you think this man's voice is specific to your area?"

This is from West Plains, Mo
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/west-plains-mo/TU6F5S5MTNAKM5DLH

This is from Terre Haute, In
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/terre-haute-in/TB7Q7319ONO85OB4V

please give me your thougts, I have not listed Chicago, Wisconsin, Iowa, or Calf., do you all think we should?

Boyz_Mum
04-07-2009, 11:20 PM
Carolwood, that seems to be a good idea, you have gotten responses there. You are so awesome! :blowkiss:

RhythmicSun
04-07-2009, 11:23 PM
Wow, the person who responded about Chicago and NW Indiana was great! Perhaps you should focus on that area for starters, carolwood.

I have been very busy with the forensic astrology forum today but I will get on this now.

By the way, I am highly anticipating seeing Benjaman's birth chart once he finds out who the heck he is!

carolwood
04-08-2009, 12:36 AM
Wow, the person who responded about Chicago and NW Indiana was great! Perhaps you should focus on that area for starters, carolwood.

I have been very busy with the forensic astrology forum today but I will get on this now.

By the way, I am highly anticipating seeing Benjaman's birth chart once he finds out who the heck he is!

I am posting in Chicago as we speak, and surrounding cities. woohoo, lets see what we will get.

dreamweaver
04-08-2009, 02:05 AM
I just had a person on topix, called Missouri Man, who suggested we ask Walmart to put his photo in the entrance ways where they have the bulletin boards at, what a wonderful idea. thoughts?
------------------------------------------

Walmart sponsors missing children. Posters can be in the store.
They work with National Exploited and Missing Children organization.

http://walmartstores.com/CommunityGiving/212.aspx
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2295

dreamweaver
04-08-2009, 02:27 AM
http://www.projectjason.org/18wheel.shtml

18 wheeler project: truckers pass out flyers of missing persons.

I wonder if BK is eligible for this. He is a missing person. He just does not know his name. He is the one missing.

dreamweaver
04-08-2009, 02:33 AM
Not too long ago, we all talked about a media blitz. Contacting major owners of media outlets, such as tv, radio, newspapers, magazines.

Also, setting up a myspace page and facebook page for Benjaman Kyle.
Maybe setting up a website of Benjaman Kyle, like so many other missing people have. Of course, BK is not missing, just his identity.
Adding him to other missing person sites, such as Project Jason. I hope it is okay to note their forum on this one.

The idea was to really go full force on this.
I think we got derailed with the y dna information. BK also said he was working
on his own blog. But as far as I can tell, that has not happened.
What do people think? Should we go full steam ahead?

Boyz_Mum
04-08-2009, 11:05 AM
Does anyone know what Mr. Kyle's thoughts are regarding how deeply he wants people to look for his identity? It's hard to know if/when any of the searching causes him discomfort since he's not here. Has he expressed anything in regards to what he is or isn't comfortable with? :blowkiss:

(I'm not implying that anyone has done anything wrong or anything like that, I am just curious if Mr. Kyle has any input that we should hear?)

Going full speed ahead with a myspace or something like that sounds like a good idea, I think a "who am I" page or something along those lines could be a good tool, but is it possible to get approval from Mr Kyle beforehand or am I over thinking it?

Roselvr
04-08-2009, 01:14 PM
Not too long ago, we all talked about a media blitz. Contacting major owners of media outlets, such as tv, radio, newspapers, magazines.

Also, setting up a myspace page and facebook page for Benjaman Kyle.
Maybe setting up a website of Benjaman Kyle, like so many other missing people have. Of course, BK is not missing, just his identity.
Adding him to other missing person sites, such as Project Jason. I hope it is okay to note their forum on this one.

The idea was to really go full force on this.
I think we got derailed with the y dna information. BK also said he was working
on his own blog. But as far as I can tell, that has not happened.
What do people think? Should we go full steam ahead?

I will be getting back to what I promised. Sorry, it was income tax time plus had some personal stuff. I need to be able to devote major time in each sitting to do what I need to do. I don't want to start something then come back to it.

Believe was helping me with my draft, just have not had time to get to it.

I was also hoping to make contact with Benjaman but it didn't happen.

Just a small update. Today I decided a different approach to help identify Ben. I decided to post on a couple of boards on topix, "Do you think this man's voice is specific to your area?"

This is from West Plains, Mo
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/west-plains-mo/TU6F5S5MTNAKM5DLH

This is from Terre Haute, In
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/terre-haute-in/TB7Q7319ONO85OB4V

please give me your thougts, I have not listed Chicago, Wisconsin, Iowa, or Calf., do you all think we should?

Awesome.
Hopefully I'm allowed to copy over the few posts that I'm interested in..

Coast to Coast Callers - Oklahoma City, OK - Having taken 50-100 calls a day from all over the U.S. for a couple of years, and being a Missouri resident and native, I would bet money this man is not from Missouri, or at least not formed his speech and vernacular in Missouri.

I have heard some of the same tendencies in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio areas.
(i.e. "In-di-an-aaa'-po-lis)

My money says Illinois, Indiana, Southern California, Arizona, or Florida

Hmmm - Terre Haute, IN I do not think he is from southern Indiana but maybe NW. This sounds stupid but my brother lives in southern Wisconsin but was raised in Indiana and he reminds me of how he talks, not as pronounced but I heard it in how he says "Oh" and "that" with a d sound in the beginning and "old" when he talks about seeing himself in the mirror.

There are a quite a few Catholic schools in Indianapolis. Maybe the Archdiocese would be able to help.http://www.archindy.org/

One last idea the name Benjamin is also a surname in this area.

bmed5963 - Terre Haute, IN - The accent is DEFINITELY from the Chicagoland area. Southeast Wisconsin, Metro Chicago and Northwest Indiana residents are the only ones that talk like that.

Boyz_Mum
04-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Listening to his voice and his pronounciations I can't get a good grasp on where he sounds like he's from. Some of the Coloradan's (sp) I've met sound similar, but it seems like the "natives" have a more western tone (does that make sense?) and there are lots of transplants here (in our little area). I have friends in Iowa that he sounds similar to and I don't know anyone from Indiana or Illinois, so I don't have that to compare with. I don't think he's from Michigan, but even on the east side of Michigan compared to the West Side, there are different speech influences, so it's hard to tell.

Also, it's hard to focus on his speech because the "announcer's voice" in the one clip drowns out BK's voice.

Has there been a recording done of BK "alone"? I wonder if it would help if he could "record" himself reading or speaking?

Roselvr
04-08-2009, 02:00 PM
Listening to his voice and his pronounciations I can't get a good grasp on where he sounds like he's from. Some of the Coloradan's (sp) I've met sound similar, but it seems like the "natives" have a more western tone (does that make sense?) and there are lots of transplants here (in our little area). I have friends in Iowa that he sounds similar to and I don't know anyone from Indiana or Illinois, so I don't have that to compare with. I don't think he's from Michigan, but even on the east side of Michigan compared to the West Side, there are different speech influences, so it's hard to tell.

Also, it's hard to focus on his speech because the "announcer's voice" in the one clip drowns out BK's voice.

Has there been a recording done of BK "alone"? I wonder if it would help if he could "record" himself reading or speaking?

To me, I hear some New Jersey in him, like he lived here for some time but left.

I've done tons of googling and can;t find any other voice recordings from him. The thing about him doing one now is he may have a different accent from where he currently lives.

Boyz_Mum
04-08-2009, 02:16 PM
To me, I hear some New Jersey in him, like he lived here for some time but left.

I've done tons of googling and can;t find any other voice recordings from him. The thing about him doing one now is he may have a different accent from where he currently lives.

You are probably better at guessing than I am. I don't discount Jersey, he kind of sounds nasal (I associate that with some areas when it's probably more sinus than regional). I have relatives in Jersey, but it's been so long since I've spoken to them, I don't remember clearly how they sound.

It's really hard for me to "guess" a region, I'm not skilled and most people I meet are transplants from other places.

What about the Nebraska area? Would that be a consideration in the posting of the voice recognition carolwood has been doing?

Boyz_Mum
04-08-2009, 02:18 PM
To me, I hear some New Jersey in him, like he lived here for some time but left.

I've done tons of googling and can;t find any other voice recordings from him. The thing about him doing one now is he may have a different accent from where he currently lives.

Is he still in the south? How quickly does an adult "pick up" the influence of a different accent? Amnesia is so mysterious!

Roselvr
04-08-2009, 03:08 PM
You are probably better at guessing than I am. I don't discount Jersey, he kind of sounds nasal (I associate that with some areas when it's probably more sinus than regional). I have relatives in Jersey, but it's been so long since I've spoken to them, I don't remember clearly how they sound.

It's really hard for me to "guess" a region, I'm not skilled and most people I meet are transplants from other places.

Someone else suggested NJ as a possible place he'd lived.
There are different types of Jersey accents depending on where you live.

What about the Nebraska area? Would that be a consideration in the posting of the voice recognition carolwood has been doing?

Can't answer this.

Is he still in the south? How quickly does an adult "pick up" the influence of a different accent? Amnesia is so mysterious!

We don't know where he is, I think more so for his safety.

RhythmicSun
04-08-2009, 04:59 PM
How about a media blitz targeted for the 5th anniversary of his discovery? Is there a way to contact nurse betty to see if this is something he/they want to try? Maybe something like this is actually already in the works.

dreamweaver
04-10-2009, 01:49 PM
I had emaile 48 Hours Mystery show about three weeks ago. Today I received an email back. They were polite, but did not say they would do a show about BK.
They didn't say they would not either.
Nice of them to respond. I have not received responses from so many of the shows I have emailed.

Last night, I went to Nancy Grace site and emailed a cold case idea: Benjaman Kyle and how after 4 1/2 years it still is not resolved.

carolwood
04-11-2009, 01:23 AM
I had emaile 48 Hours Mystery show about three weeks ago. Today I received an email back. They were polite, but did not say they would do a show about BK.
They didn't say they would not either.
Nice of them to respond. I have not received responses from so many of the shows I have emailed.

Last night, I went to Nancy Grace site and emailed a cold case idea: Benjaman Kyle and how after 4 1/2 years it still is not resolved.

Good job dream. I have never heard from Ellen show either. Did you do 60 minutes or Niteline? There are quite a few of these types shows.

Boyz_Mum
04-11-2009, 09:52 AM
Has anyone contacted "Dateline"? After last nights episode (2 murders unsolved) I wondered if Dateline was an option? Does anyone know if Mr. Kyle is interested in trying another media outlet?

BeavisMom62
04-11-2009, 01:03 PM
Is he still in the south? How quickly does an adult "pick up" the influence of a different accent? Amnesia is so mysterious!

I'm from PA and had a distinctive "accent", while growing up. Then I moved to GA and it didn't take long to pick up that accent. Probably months, certainly not even a year. But to me, that is an easy accent to pick up. But I always liked to imitate southern accents while I was growing up, so maybe that is why. But then when I moved to FL, I lost both my PA and GA accents. Don't know what I sound like now!

I havent been to this thread in quite a while, I was hoping there had been some progress. This is so frustrating. And hard to believe that there isn't someone, somewhere who recognizes him. There hasn't been a huge media blitz, but he has been in the Enquirer and on Dr. Phil and on the news in places. Very hard to believe!

carolwood
04-11-2009, 11:23 PM
Happy Easter Everyone!!

meme
04-27-2009, 12:50 PM
This article was on the front page of the metro/state section of the Indianapolis Star today. http://www.indystar.com/article/20090427/LOCAL/904270327/1001/NEWS

dreamweaver
04-27-2009, 04:15 PM
This article was on the front page of the metro/state section of the Indianapolis Star today. http://www.indystar.com/article/20090427/LOCAL/904270327/1001/NEWS

-------------------------------------------------------------
So glad to hear that BK did a phone interview with the Indianapolis paper.
And he does remember even more about Indianapolis. That is a very good thing.

Boyz_Mum
04-27-2009, 06:14 PM
This article was on the front page of the metro/state section of the Indianapolis Star today. http://www.indystar.com/article/20090427/LOCAL/904270327/1001/NEWS

Thanks meme, I hope this article brings in some hopeful leads for BK.

gogrannypop
05-04-2009, 09:54 AM
I was watching HLN with the sound down and Bens' photo came up on the screen. Did anyone catch what they said about him?

believe09
05-04-2009, 09:58 AM
I was watching HLN with the sound down and Bens' photo came up on the screen. Did anyone catch what they said about him?

?????:eek::confused:

Post it if you find it....

In the meantime, check this out:
http://www.odmp.org/officer/12385-patrolman-benjamin-kyle-smith

gogrannypop
05-04-2009, 10:10 AM
TY for the link. I will post if I hear any more. it's crazy, usually HLN has the same news every ten minutes, but haven't seen it again.

dreamweaver
05-04-2009, 11:50 AM
I was watching HLN with the sound down and Bens' photo came up on the screen. Did anyone catch what they said about him?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I watch HLN also in the mornings and I did not see it. Of course, I was not looking at it all the time.
I also have BK on google alert. Nothng so far this a.m.

Let me know if you get it again.

gogrannypop
05-04-2009, 10:20 PM
I know I saw it.

While we are here, who is this?

Cymro
05-05-2009, 01:09 AM
http://www.iowacoldcases.com/charles_elmquist.html

Traybone74
06-15-2009, 07:42 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, or if this has been mentioned before, but aren't there serial numbers on implants that give info on the surgery? Maybe the type he has doesnt, I don't know and yeah it would involve surgery to have it looked at if it did. I would do it though if it were me. (barring finacial problems)

dreamweaver
06-15-2009, 08:27 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, or if this has been mentioned before, but aren't there serial numbers on implants that give info on the surgery? Maybe the type he has doesnt, I don't know and yeah it would involve surgery to have it looked at if it did. I would do it though if it were me. (barring finacial problems)
================================================== =

Traybone74:
Welcome to WS.

Serial numbers on implants have been discussed previously.
The consensus:
The surgery was most likely done more than 30 years ago and
most likely did not have serial numbers.
But, Benjaman Kyle also did not wish to have surgery to check on a possible serial number.
Benjaman K also is not able to work, as he has no social security number.

There was some talk not long ago, that Benjaman K might consider a surgery.
But with all the professional help he is now getting, expert geneaologist, private detective, etc., I doubt he would have surgery.

Traybone74
06-15-2009, 08:41 AM
Thank you for the welcome! Although I have been a member since 2006, I am too easily absorbed in this stuff and could stay up for days so I try not to let myself get too involved. I don't post alot either, more of a reader than a poster, plus I tend to find the threads when they are on page 231684615519846 of posts.:crazy:


Have any professional linguists been involved? This story really disturbs me because you would think someone somewhere would have recognized him by now? I mean he obviously didnt live on a deserted island for the last... oh I dont know... all his life???

I'm also pretty pissed about Dr. Phil. I can't say I really like him, but I hada decent opinion of him after he featured Sam and Lindsay Porter on his show.

dreamweaver
06-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Thank you for the welcome! Although I have been a member since 2006, I am too easily absorbed in this stuff and could stay up for days so I try not to let myself get too involved. I don't post alot either, more of a reader than a poster, plus I tend to find the threads when they are on page 231684615519846 of posts.:crazy:


Have any professional linguists been involved? This story really disturbs me because you would think someone somewhere would have recognized him by now? I mean he obviously didnt live on a deserted island for the last... oh I dont know... all his life???

I'm also pretty pissed about Dr. Phil. I can't say I really like him, but I hada decent opinion of him after he featured Sam and Lindsay Porter on his show.
=================================================

So, not a newcomer to WS. I 'assumed' from your low number of posts that you were new. And you know what they say about assume.
lol.
I lurked and read for a month of so before I joined WS. I still read a lot and do not post.
I too get absorbed into cases. I have to make myself take breaks and walk away.
Dr Phil: Not my favorite guy. I was glad he did the show on BK.
They did have the linguist on Dr Phil.
There have been others who posted here or on topix that BK had the sound of Indiana or another state near there. One person said OK.
I know BK has a team of experts helping him now, but I am unsure if a linguist is among them.
Believe09 has contact with BK. She might know.

As for your frustration on why no one seems to know Benjaman Kyle and where the heck is his family and where are his co workers?
That is the main part of the puzzle, isn't it?

justthinkin
06-16-2009, 11:18 AM
Has anyone had any luck on tracking down BK's heritage or family through genealogy & dna?

What's the status there? I found a picture of a Powell who looks like he might be from the same lines as BK. Don't know if it's ok to post the person's picture here. I don't want to get in trouble with the PTB.

dreamweaver
06-16-2009, 11:53 AM
justthinkin:
As for the geneaology part, carolwood, a poster here on the bk thread, did a lot of checking on the Powell line.
I know she still works on that part of it.
I will send her an email and have her check in.
You can always send her a pm as well.

carolwood
06-16-2009, 12:09 PM
Welcome justthinkin!

Yes, I am working on the genealogy. Would you like to help? Such a large family and tracking the whereabouts through census records, it has been a challenge, but eyes are welcomed. You won't be able to get PM's or send PM's until you reach a certain number of posts, I think is how it goes. But you can email me at jogle1@bellsouth.net with the photo link, I have quite a few of these myself and would love to see the one you have.

justthinkin
06-16-2009, 01:32 PM
Dreamweaver, thanks.

Carolwood, I'll send you a pm. Well nix the PM. I don't see a way to enter a photo. I'll email you instead.

stumpedpa
06-16-2009, 03:20 PM
I can't get this out of my head. Been lurking around on here for a while. Been taken with this since I saw BK on Dr. Phil.
I just donno.....the age on this guy is wrong...I just sort of stumbled on this...
like I said I donno. I've searched all the threads and this name never came up.
Anyway
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/MPCH/mpdetails.asp?id='M6/5/200211:47:21AM'

moles can fade with age.....anyway....
like I said the age..he'd only be 43
looks so much like BK though.....

that's it...

believe09
06-16-2009, 04:04 PM
I can't get this out of my head. Been lurking around on here for a while. Been taken with this since I saw BK on Dr. Phil.
I just donno.....the age on this guy is wrong...I just sort of stumbled on this...
like I said I donno. I've searched all the threads and this name never came up.
Anyway
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/MPCH/mpdetails.asp?id='M6/5/200211:47:21AM'

moles can fade with age.....anyway....
like I said the age..he'd only be 43
looks so much like BK though.....

that's it...

Welcome Pa-the link did not work for me. Got a name??

stumpedpa
06-16-2009, 04:11 PM
Name: Richard W. Powell
AKA: Richard F. Powell
Case Number: M8807007
Case Type: Endangered - Foul Play Possible
Last Seen in: Fort Worth (Tarrant County)
Last Seen on: 3/22/1984
Height: 5' 7 "
Weight: 150 lbs.
Age Missing: 18
Eye Color: Blue
Hair Color: Blonde
Date of Birth: 2/1/1966
Race: White
Sex: Male
State Missing From: Texas
Country Missing From: USA
Circumstances: Richard has a mole on his right cheek and the pinkie fingers on both hands are permanently curved inward. He wears an orthodontic retainer on his lower teeth. Richard's vehicle was found abandoned in an Irving parking lot April 23, 1984.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/mpdetails.asp?id='M6/5/200211:47:21AM'
NOT SURE WHY THE LINK ISN'T WORKING?
4145
DONNO IF THIS PHOTO WILL LOAD

stumpedpa
06-16-2009, 04:13 PM
The ' after the link needs to be there but for some reason isn't reading as part of the link

believe09
06-16-2009, 06:01 PM
I started a thread on Richard Powell in the sleuthed possible mathes subforum:
Richard W. Powell - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Would someone do a side by side pretty please and we can dig into this one a little more to see if there is a resemblance???

dreamweaver
06-16-2009, 07:49 PM
I started a thread on Richard Powell in the sleuthed possible mathes subforum:
Richard W. Powell - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3877422#post3877422)

Would someone do a side by side pretty please and we can dig into this one a little more to see if there is a resemblance???
==================================================

I could swear we have gone over Richard W Powell before.
But then I could be wrong.
Pinkie fingers turned inward is what I remember and the Powell name.
??
I just think he is too young to be BK.

dreamweaver
06-16-2009, 08:00 PM
Dreamweaver, thanks.

Carolwood, I'll send you a pm. Well nix the PM. I don't see a way to enter a photo. I'll email you instead.
---------------------------------------------------------

justthinkin:
Hi,
I saw the picture you have of a Powell. Sure has a look of Benjaman Kyle.

justthinkin
06-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Dreamweaver, I have written to him, and am awaiting a reply. I'm really hoping he responds.

Cymro
06-17-2009, 04:51 PM
Higher res pic of Richard:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch_images/final/M8807007.jpg

Julessleuther
07-01-2009, 05:20 AM
I did not think I should post this in the resources, blogs, etc thread, but I wanted to comment about the updated Wiki on BK...

I think IMO there is a real possibility that he did serve in Vietnam, and that may be in fact part/all of why he has amnesia. Also, I have a friend who was a Korean/Vietnam war vet, and I asked him if he had ever been fingerprinted, and he said he did not remember being fingerprinted, but he was not sure. So...there is a possibly that he did serve in the military, but was never fingerprinted. If so, maybe he was an MIA who did come back but his family did not know it. I think we should be looking at Vietnam vets, as well as Vietnam MIA's. The following is a link to Indiana POW/MIA's. Some have returned, some have had bodies recovered, and some have not been recovered.

http://www.indianarollingthunder.com/default.aspx?oid=7065c6f4-3300-4f9a-8b5f-cc6467f1ea92


Here is Colorado's:
http://www.geocities.com/never_forget_them/Colorado.html

FWIW, he could have worked in Denver after he returned from Vietnam...

I also found a missing alumni list for U of C at Boulder for Computer Science 1969 -now
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/people/alumni/missing/

Of interest to me was a Jimmie Coyle from 1974--received a Masters

dreamweaver
07-01-2009, 08:23 AM
julessleuther:
IMO:
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/enlist.html
re: fingerprinting:
"snipped respectfully"
The day at MEPS will consist of these tests:
Drug and alcohol
Color vision
Hearing
Blood (similiar to donating blood)
Doctor examination
Eye examination
Weight
Joint inspection
Fingerprinting
''snipped''

IMO: I do think all military personnel had to be fingerprinted.
But,
records can be lost, misplaced.

I have thought about the witness protection program.
FBI Bill K said, that Benjaman Kyle's fingerprints were
checked with the U S Marshall Witness Protection Program.
But, I have read that the marshalls may not always
be truthful, even to the FBI.
And I have read that state witness protection programs are underfunded and poorly maintained. (link prev. provided)

I like the way you are thinking!

dreamweaver
07-01-2009, 08:25 AM
I checked the CO missing alumni list.
Good clues there.

But, why did you choose Jimmy Coyle, 1974 ?
Is he from Indiana?
?

believe09
07-01-2009, 08:57 AM
I received an email from NB regarding the 5 year anniversary of BK's discovery:
(snipped)
I am writing because August 31, 2009 marks the 5th anniversary since the man we have come to know as Benjaman Kyle was attacked and left for dead behind the Burger King in Richmond Hill, Georgia. That is only two short months away. Benjaman still suffers from amnesia and still needs our help in discovering his identity.

It would be very helpful if we could drum up some more interest in his case, such as television and newspaper coverage, America’s Most Wanted, Geraldo, Nancy Grace and any other programs that will result in national exposure. Benjaman is a very intelligent man with a deeply entrenched work ethic. Someone out there has worked with him. Someone out there knows him.

If you can do anything to help it will be most appreciated.


I have mailed letters/emails to the following:
Nancy Grace
AMW
Oprah

believe09
07-01-2009, 08:58 AM
To Whom It May Concern-

It has been five years since "Benjaman Kyle" was located behind a Burger King in Savannah, GA-beaten and unconscious, badly sunburned and left for dead. Initially assumed to be a homeless bum by first responders, staff at Memorial Hospital in Savannah quickly discovered that this intelligent articulate man was suffering from traumatic amnesia. With no recollection of his own name or even a firm recollection of where he had come from, he has been living at the mercy of friends and former caregivers; a "Real Live Nobody" in spite of the best efforts of local police and the FBI to determine his true identity.

Mr. Kyle chose his name based on a belief that the name "Benjaman" held some significance to him and he chose the "Kyle" in order to honor the establishment he was found behind. (BK) His fingerprints have been entered into AFIS, his DNA entered into CODIS, his paternal DNA has been entered into genealogy websites and he has even been featured on the Dr. Phil Show and in the National Enquirer. There have been no solid leads that have uncovered his past and he is unable to work or file for benefits because he cannot prove he is an American citizen.

Won't you please help him by featuring him on your show or even on your website?

It has been five long years of struggle and searching. Five years of living off of others with nothing to give but his kind, generous heart and significant abilities. Please give him a hand and feature him so that someone, anyone, who may know him can come forward and end the nightmare of not knowing who he is and where he belongs.

Media Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjaman_Kyle
http://savannahnow.com/node/364434 (http://savannahnow.com/node/364434)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=147
http://lostfacesofthemissing.blogspot.com/2008/09/monday-4-missing-benjaman-kyle.html (http://lostfacesofthemissing.blogspot.com/2008/09/monday-4-missing-benjaman-kyle.html)
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/07/using-genetic-genealogy-to-solve-the-mystery-of-benjaman-kyle/ (http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/01/07/using-genetic-genealogy-to-solve-the-mystery-of-benjaman-kyle/)
http://www.indy.com/posts/benjaman-kyle-wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia (http://www.indy.com/posts/benjaman-kyle-wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia)
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1146 (http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1146)

Thank you for your time and attention!

Sincerely,
Believe09

Boyz_Mum
07-01-2009, 10:53 AM
believe09, I've been "out of the loop" regarding Mr. Kyle. Does he want "us" to move forward with his story? I had been under the impression it had gotten intrusive for him.

I must go back and read some of what I've missed here- thanks for the update. Thank you also for the work you've done and are doing. :blowkiss:

believe09
07-01-2009, 11:41 AM
believe09, I've been "out of the loop" regarding Mr. Kyle. Does he want "us" to move forward with his story? I had been under the impression it had gotten intrusive for him.

I must go back and read some of what I've missed here- thanks for the update. Thank you also for the work you've done and are doing. :blowkiss:

:blowkiss: Back atcha, BM...

I do not know the answer to whether or not our fine sleuthers are intrusive, but I can say that I received the request from NB to help initiate a media campaign around BK's 5th year anniversary. Once you get a chance to read the updated Wikipedia article, you may get the sense that the belief in his camp or at least with whomever wrote the article is that he will be ID'd by a member of the general public who knew him or by DNA match. I can also say I (meaning me, Believe09) was asked to focus on the request for additional media only at this time.

My fellow sleuthers are as always free to increase the scope as they will within the bounds of TOS, right??? :)

Boyz_Mum
07-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Thanks believe09. I would not want Mr. Kyle to feel intruded upon and I don't think anyone here has been. I'll put my thinking cap back on.

Would it be "okay" if "we" wrote/emailed letters to the same media outlets? For example, if more than one of "us" wrote/emailed 48 Hours or shows of the like, is it better to have more interest expressed regarding one subject matter? I'd love to see more about amnesia on shows like 20/20, Dateline, etc...

believe09
07-01-2009, 11:48 AM
Thanks believe09. I would not want Mr. Kyle to feel intruded upon and I don't think anyone here has been. I'll put my thinking cap back on.

Would it be "okay" if "we" wrote/emailed letters to the same media outlets? For example, if more than one of "us" wrote/emailed 48 Hours or shows of the like, is it better to have more interest expressed regarding one subject matter? I'd love to see more about amnesia on shows like 20/20, Dateline, etc...

Do it honey-I will follow suit...the more the merrier I say!!!!

Boyz_Mum
07-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Do it honey-I will follow suit...the more the merrier I say!!!!

I think it's more incentive if many people show interest in the same subject, don't you?

Do we have a list of outlets, or do we want to report back here as we find new outlets, etc...? I can think of several off the top of my head, but let me know if there's a "master list" of media outlets. :)

Julessleuther
07-01-2009, 01:55 PM
No, LOL. Sorry, it was late at night, I should have explained myself. The reason I found it interesting is the spelling of the last name. COYLE vs. KYLE. And the time frame Mr. Coyle was at U of C was in the early 1970's, perhaps a time when Benjaman would have been there. I checked the CO missing alumni list.
Good clues there.

But, why did you choose Jimmy Coyle, 1974 ?
Is he from Indiana?
?

Julessleuther
07-01-2009, 01:58 PM
Ok, so no investigating, but help with media attention?

Julessleuther
07-01-2009, 02:02 PM
Good to know about fingerprinting and the military. If someone was declared dead in the military, do they still keep the fingerprints on record, or are those fingerprints archived or something?

I also thought that whoever IS investigating this should be checking old yearbooks from the Catholic schools in Indianapolis area, as well as University of Colorado/Boulder yearbooks. If he went to U of C, then worked in the food industry, what did he study? Architecture? Engineering? Business? If we could narrow down what he studied, based on his recollections, there is then a narrower scope of research to do.

julessleuther:
IMO:
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/enlist.html
re: fingerprinting:
"snipped respectfully"
The day at MEPS will consist of these tests:
Drug and alcohol
Color vision
Hearing
Blood (similiar to donating blood)
Doctor examination
Eye examination
Weight
Joint inspection
Fingerprinting
''snipped''

IMO: I do think all military personnel had to be fingerprinted.
But,
records can be lost, misplaced.

I have thought about the witness protection program.
FBI Bill K said, that Benjaman Kyle's fingerprints were
checked with the U S Marshall Witness Protection Program.
But, I have read that the marshalls may not always
be truthful, even to the FBI.
And I have read that state witness protection programs are underfunded and poorly maintained. (link prev. provided)

I like the way you are thinking!

carolwood
07-01-2009, 02:09 PM
I would like to send out letters to these newspapers in Oklahoma:

Miami News Record
Guymon Daily Herald
Alva Review
Edmond Evening Sun
Oklahoma Journal Record
The Oklahoma Constitution
The Oklahoman
Bixby Bulletin
Broken Arrow Daily Ledger
Sand Springs Ledger
Sapulpa Daily Herald
Greater Tulsa Reporter
Tulsa World
Urban Tulsa

If this is okay, I will send in a.m. on July 2. Hopefully we will get some feedback from these newspapers. I can also post online on these sites, I think.

believe09
07-01-2009, 02:19 PM
I will start a 5th year anniversary media campaign thread-we can post our media contacts and letters if you feel like it.

Thank you everyone for continuing to carry the torch...:blowkiss:

believe09
07-01-2009, 02:21 PM
Ok, so no investigating, but help with media attention?

I will limit my scope, but you-all do whatever you think fits the situation. :)

dreamweaver
07-01-2009, 10:05 PM
No, LOL. Sorry, it was late at night, I should have explained myself. The reason I found it interesting is the spelling of the last name. COYLE vs. KYLE. And the time frame Mr. Coyle was at U of C was in the early 1970's, perhaps a time when Benjaman would have been there.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Ah, that explains it. That makes sense.

I often post at night, and sometimes I am not clear. So, I know what you mean.

dreamweaver
07-01-2009, 10:06 PM
I will start a 5th year anniversary media campaign thread-we can post our media contacts and letters if you feel like it.

Thank you everyone for continuing to carry the torch...:blowkiss:
------------------------------------------------------
I spent some time today online finding out producers names of tv news magazines.
And I know I have it bookmarked contact names...searching again...

I will contact media outlets as well, mostly tv or magazines.

Julessleuther
07-02-2009, 02:56 AM
Ok hon, thank you. I do not want to overstep any bounds here, and will do whatever is needed and appropriate for the time... :blowkiss:I will limit my scope, but you-all do whatever you think fits the situation. :)

carolwood
07-03-2009, 07:11 PM
Found this today:

http://www.archives.gov/research/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics.html#age

Missing in Action - Vietnam

also found this:

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios.htm

carolwood
07-04-2009, 12:54 PM
I would like to send out letters to these newspapers in Oklahoma:

Miami News Record
Guymon Daily Herald
Alva Review
Edmond Evening Sun
Oklahoma Journal Record
The Oklahoma Constitution
The Oklahoman
Bixby Bulletin
Broken Arrow Daily Ledger
Sand Springs Ledger
Sapulpa Daily Herald
Greater Tulsa Reporter
Tulsa World
Urban Tulsa

If this is okay, I will send in a.m. on July 2. Hopefully we will get some feedback from these newspapers. I can also post online on these sites, I think.

Done!

mayfairlight
07-04-2009, 09:50 PM
I read the updated Wikipedia article and its great how much has, and still is, being done to find out "who" he is. :clap:

I was surprised to see in the Wikipedia article he had memories of the University of Colorado at Boulder. I only knew, from here, that he had memories of restaurants in Denver. No mention of any specific university.

I have a website about someone who attended that university in the mid-70s, and Im in contact with several of her former friends from Boulder, some of who would be about Mr Kyles age now.
They have a few yearbooks (I know because I asked if the person I have a website about was in any of them:) )

I dont understand why this was not mentioned here before, and I dont understand why he or his friend is not answering any questions made to him in the questions-thread.
Just a simple little clue like that could help him.

If Id known just that, I could have sent his picture to the people I write to, ask them if they recognized him, and if not, ask them to send the picture on. Id have asked them if they could make scans of the yearbooks. Why doesnt he want our help?

Im sorry, but I find it strange, and I have no will to help out after reading "media only!" Id love to see him finding out who he is/ was, but I feel completely belittled by that. Yes, we are volunteers, but Im not prepared to help someone who so obviously does not think my help is of any value. (Although however... I will of course send his picture to my friends, now I have that information)
(And also ask for yearbook scans)...

:):):)

spamelope
07-05-2009, 02:37 AM
Wow, maybe a break? I have been following this case for a few years now and I am flabbergasted that he thinks he worked at a Round The Corner restaurant in Boulder. We used to go there all the time! Unfortunately I don't recall him and I am like an idiot savant when it comes to remembering faces. I hope someone recognizes him. Kudos to Jabril Faraj for a well written article and kudos to all you sleuths who narrowed it down!

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/jul/05/amnesia-victim-boulder-benjaman-kyle-cu/?partner=RSS

believe09
07-05-2009, 08:36 AM
Wow, maybe a break? I have been following this case for a few years now and I am flabbergasted that he thinks he worked at a Round The Corner restaurant in Boulder. We used to go there all the time! Unfortunately I don't recall him and I am like an idiot savant when it comes to remembering faces. I hope someone recognizes him. Kudos to Jabril Faraj for a well written article and kudos to all you sleuths who narrowed it down!

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/jul/05/amnesia-victim-boulder-benjaman-kyle-cu/?partner=RSS

Wow-now I get all of the silence from their corner, lol. It seems that Benjamin's memory is returning fast and furiously.....I cannot wait to see how all of this unfolds.

Boyz_Mum
07-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Wow-now I get all of the silence from their corner, lol. It seems that Benjamin's memory is returning fast and furiously.....I cannot wait to see how all of this unfolds.

Praying that it all turns out to be okay for Benjamin.

carolwood
07-05-2009, 06:02 PM
Wanted to let everyone know that Boulder Topix board has Ben's story on there front page. Hope everyone here will go post a comment. You do not have to register to post a comment, but make sure to post a name on the comment page.

http://www.topix.net/city/boulder-co

click comment
a comment box should come up with name and comment section
when finished, put the numbers to the right in the box, and click post comment, and your done.

believe09
07-05-2009, 06:24 PM
Wanted to let everyone know that Boulder Topix board has Ben's story on there front page. Hope everyone here will go post a comment. You do not have to register to post a comment, but make sure to post a name on the comment page.

http://www.topix.net/city/boulder-co

click comment
a comment box should come up with name and comment section
when finished, put the numbers to the right in the box, and click post comment, and your done.

Done...:dance:

spamelope
07-05-2009, 08:58 PM
Done.

spamelope
07-08-2009, 03:42 PM
BOULDER Advocates for an amnesia victim who's been trying to find his identity for nearly five years and has stray memories of being in Boulder have received about a dozen solid tips on who he might be after Colorado news outlets recently reported on his plight.

Several people who spent time in Boulder in the early 1980s have said they remember the unknown man working as a manager at Round the Corner a former Boulder restaurant that had three locations, including one on University Hill.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12784795

Hopefully, he should know something soon! This is so awesome!

believe09
07-08-2009, 04:22 PM
BOULDER Advocates for an amnesia victim who's been trying to find his identity for nearly five years and has stray memories of being in Boulder have received about a dozen solid tips on who he might be after Colorado news outlets recently reported on his plight.

Several people who spent time in Boulder in the early 1980s have said they remember the unknown man working as a manager at Round the Corner a former Boulder restaurant that had three locations, including one on University Hill.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12784795

Hopefully, he should know something soon! This is so awesome!

YIPPEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

OMG, I am so excited for him....

Cymro
07-08-2009, 04:40 PM
I've just tracked down a forum where there were a couple of former Round The Corner employees posting so I've joined there and sent them private messages.

The management team behind Round The Corner appears to be together working under the "Good Times" brand and so should be fairly easy to track down.

carolwood
07-09-2009, 11:55 AM
Article of Round the corner restaurants:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n20_v29/ai_16838157/

believe09
07-09-2009, 01:26 PM
Article of Round the corner restaurants:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n20_v29/ai_16838157/
-snip-
WESTMINSTER, Colo. -- Good Times Restaurants Inc., owner of 22 double-drive-thru burger restaurants in Colorado, has sold its Round the Corner Restaurants to managers of that division.
Expected to close by the end of June, the deal involves the sale of the 15 gourmet burger restaurants for $425,000. John Howard, a spokesman for Good Times, said the management group that is buying Round the Corner is led by division president Scott Lefever and includes his regional managers and additional investors.

Previous BK articles mention that he was a manager of the eatery in Boulder. Maybe he was in on this....

Fairy1
07-09-2009, 09:01 PM
These new developments are so exciting! Many of the pieces seem to fit the puzzle you all have been working for so long. I hope there is a resolution soon for BK. Whatever the circumstances, he deserves to have the opportunity to move forward with his life. Fingers crossed!!!

dreamweaver
07-09-2009, 10:04 PM
I am so excited to see things developing.

It will be good to know the whole story.

Benjaman Kyle has waited nearly five years for this.

dreamweaver
07-09-2009, 10:11 PM
http://www.goodtimesburgers.com/index.php?page=site/text&nav_id=a75673a279e88be685838de8d480fefc
website: good times burgers

http://www.goodtimesburgers.com/index.php?page=site/text&nav_id=9b9a8d5094ddfe62bc66c7cd70eec9c8
executive officers

bam
07-10-2009, 05:37 AM
I pray that he finds out soon. The waiting must be hard on him.

believe09
07-10-2009, 11:53 AM
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/jul/08/tips-roll-amnesia-victim-no-id-yet/

bam
07-10-2009, 12:31 PM
As I read the article I believe one person they named didn't pan out but looking at other former managers for possibility.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/jul/08/tips-roll-amnesia-victim-no-id-yet/

dreamweaver
07-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Nice that the former employees have posted BK's info on their company web site.

bam
07-10-2009, 09:51 PM
bumpity bump bump. Hoping to hear more news.

Cymro
07-11-2009, 04:26 PM
This could be BK's unfortunate lookalike, Ken Minkoff...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/3178326354_9f1df32a25.jpg?v=0

I say unfortunate because he could be the guy the tipsters "recognize" from the restaurant and makes me think that this is, sadly, yet another dead end.

The photo comes from here: http://blog.skihomewood.com/

dreamweaver
07-11-2009, 05:50 PM
cymro:
Great job finding that website and photo.
No wonder people think Ken M is Benjaman Kyle.
They do look similar!

Do we know if anyone has talked with Ken M?
Maybe he and his brother ' Ben ' moved out to CO together?

DotsEyes
07-11-2009, 06:05 PM
Boulder, CO. and Georgia. Hmm.

columbo78
07-12-2009, 12:38 AM
has anyone brought up this possibility? scary but maybe he escaped captivity with these to looney sickos and has been suffering from anesia since?





http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/peranteau_clifford.html

DotsEyes
07-12-2009, 01:24 AM
I can not believe that no one has ever listed him as missing. How can a person disappear for years and no one notice? He has to have had friends, lovers, family, landlords, employers, neighbors - somebody that knew him and noticed he was missing.

Was he a vagrant when found?

dreamweaver
07-12-2009, 11:55 AM
has anyone brought up this possibility? scary but maybe he escaped captivity with these to looney sickos and has been suffering from anesia since?





http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/peranteau_clifford.html
=======================================

Welcome columbo78:

It's always good to have a fresh eye on a case.
But, IMO, I do not think he was ever a victim of those serial killers.

dreamweaver
07-12-2009, 11:57 AM
I can not believe that no one has ever listed him as missing. How can a person disappear for years and no one notice? He has to have had friends, lovers, family, landlords, employers, neighbors - somebody that knew him and noticed he was missing.

Was he a vagrant when found?
================================================== ===

I think you have just expressed what everyone of us has thought about Benjaman Kyle.

It is amazing in this day and age that someone can just disappear and
no one seems to notice.
But, it has happened.
I just hope with these latest developments from CO article, that his identity will be known.

Cubby
07-12-2009, 03:37 PM
This could be BK's unfortunate lookalike, Ken Minkoff...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/3178326354_9f1df32a25.jpg?v=0

I say unfortunate because he could be the guy the tipsters "recognize" from the restaurant and makes me think that this is, sadly, yet another dead end.

The photo comes from here: http://blog.skihomewood.com/



I've thought about this too, but that doesn't explain Mr. Kyles memory of being in the Round the Corner restaurant.

If one takes a close look at the pics of Mr. Kyle and Mr KM, they appear similiar but different. Mr Kyles hands appear much larger than Mr. KM's to me based on the pics we've seen. Mr. Kyles hair is also parted on the other side. I don't think men change their hair part as often as women may.

Someone who had worked at two of the 'round the corner' restaurants in Boulder who has specific memories and names of people who they remember working in the area asked Mr. Kyle to come back and answer some questions. I sure hope he does. I know he is reluctant to answer some questions here at WS at times, from strangers - who have no ties to areas from his past-because of problems he got from a few. I PRAY he can seperate the difference between that, and make contact with that commenter elsewhere who may very well be able to come up with some names of people who can be found, contacted and shown Mr. Kyles pic and info. I HOPE he doesn't pass that opportunity by.

On a last note, man does that steak look good! Making me hungry for one. hee hee.

ETA: Even if Mr. Kyle doesn't want to answer on a forum, or maybe wants to keep some info back? for verification reasons? or even his privacy, I HOPE he or the forensic person (Colleen?) that he is working with, will make contact and give that commenter an alternative avenue to communicate directly with them.

Boyz_Mum
07-13-2009, 09:57 AM
[quote]
On a last note, man does that steak look good! Making me hungry for one. hee hee.

ETA: Even if Mr. Kyle doesn't want to answer on a forum, or maybe wants to keep some info back? for verification reasons? or even his privacy, I HOPE he or the forensic person (Colleen?) that he is working with, will make contact and give that commenter an alternative avenue to communicate directly with them.

In a way I do understand Mr. Kyle's reservations in regards to his privacy, etc... But I do think his input is important, for people to keep "the story alive", it needs to be fed. Even if all Mr. Kyle has is a "I don't think that's it", it's still a little feedback to go on?

(ITA on the steak! :))

Cubby
07-13-2009, 11:31 AM
[quote=Cubby;3951715]

In a way I do understand Mr. Kyle's reservations in regards to his privacy, etc... But I do think his input is important, for people to keep "the story alive", it needs to be fed. Even if all Mr. Kyle has is a "I don't think that's it", it's still a little feedback to go on?

(ITA on the steak! :))


I agree. I totally understand and respect his wish for privacy. I've even commented or thought, after all these years I would selfishly be disappointed for a few minutes if he learned his identity and didn't reveal his name. Then I recalled how the tears of joy poured down many of our faces when Tawni Mazzone former Maricopa Jane Doe got her name back. I know personally, those tears of joy would fall down my face whether I ever know Mr. Kyles real name or not. Just the fact he can continue on with his life as he wishes knowing his name would be enough for me.

On another odd note, I've mentioned the possibility if he had worked as a manager in a restaurant he'd clearly have ordered glassware, stemware, paper goods, jantiorial goods. Does he recall a company that he may have done business with? A lot of the oldies- old timers in the bus' have been selling 'toilet paper' for 20+ years. (lol, selling toilet paper to make a living ;) ) I was in the bus in the Chicago area.... I might be able to find some old timers who did bus. in Colorado, but I'd need a STARTING POINT of some kind- other wise it's like looking for a needle in a haystack blindfolded without some kind of feedback/input from Mr. Kyle.

On a really odd note- we remember certain things.... odd things. For me, it is phone numbers. I can't say how many I've had or had to remember with pagers, cell phones, people moving. Telephone numbers that are still stuck in my head: My first home tele, the tele's of two of my friends parents who have been at their homes for 30+ years. I may not remember the friends change of numbers, but their parents tele's are burnt into my brain. ;) I guess it got me wondering if a telephone number stuck out in Mr Kyles head for some reason. It might be hard to trace with area code changes, and such, but worth looking into......

I guess, I am thinking there might be some small thing Mr. Kyle feels or believes is completely irrelevent which could be the key to unlocking this whole mystery.

Boyz_Mum
07-13-2009, 12:11 PM
Cubby, it's funny you mention the other companies that may have serviced the RTC- I was wondering if we'd or anyone had contacted restaurant supply companies (on the RTC thread). When we first got the "Powell" information, I found a restaurant supply company owned by a Powell family- I didn't contact them. Since the "Powell" info may or may not have been useful.

As I said over on the RTC thread, we had the same milkman for years at a restaurant I worked in- he could still be delivering the milk for all I know.

believe09 has been great on keeping us updated and I appreciate that. I just wish that on some of the other discussion boards (and here too) that Mr. Kyle could have someone to keep the discussion moving by answering questions. I want Mr. Kyle to have the privacy he deserves, I think I may just be nosey?:)

The phone number thing is a good thought. I know that some area codes have been created, but I am not sure if they ever actually stop using a certain area code. Many years ago, MI only had 3 area codes, then as phone usage increased, credit card machines, faxes, computers and so forth were used, more area codes were implimented as a way to create new phone numbers. I wonder if Mr. Kyle has a phone number that ever comes up in his mind?

I agree with you, it could be something that seems totally irrelevent could be the key.

Cubby
07-13-2009, 12:46 PM
Ok, done called one old timer sales rep in Omaha- which was about as far 'west' as we went in the paper bus back in the day. He's going to pass the info around... didn't know off hand of any distributors in Colorado....

Left a message for another old timer way out east in western NY. (that east coast market was tough back in the day- we couldn't compete from the midwest).

Found out I thought 'Rolly' had the Indiana market back in the day. I was wrong, Rolly was in Ohio. Got the correct name of who serviced Indiana back in the day... a 'JH' going to look for his contact info, but I don't know that he would know anyone that far back in Indi.

The one sales rep I recall from Kimberly Clark - last time I looked was a VP of somekind.... I can ask her.... but again, it would be really nice to have some direction other than sending the wiki page and WS (which is far too much for any newcomers non interested in sleuthing to research).

I'm sure if we dug deep enough, we could find some old distributors from Colorado.... but we need more than - "they only sold Coors west of the whatever until such and such a date". (not much to work on).

justthinkin
07-13-2009, 01:28 PM
Y'all may know the answer to this, but I don't. Is it known whether or not Benjaman was familiar with how to operate a computer when found? That may give us a clue as to the time period he was in the restaurant business or restaurant supply. No computer skills, ie. spreadsheets etc. would mean that might have been his field before computer usage was common in those businesses.

dreamweaver
07-13-2009, 11:46 PM
Phone numbers: Good idea.
And since I am around the same age of Benjaman K, I am thinking
the original phone numbers were a name and then numbers, like
Butterfield8, from the movie with Elizabeth Taylor, 1960.

Maybe he remembers that kind of prefix?

DotsEyes
07-15-2009, 07:07 PM
It is my understanding that BK speaks with a regional dialect. Is there a video of him talking?

dreamweaver
07-15-2009, 11:26 PM
http://www.truveo.com/Amnesia-Victim-looking-for-Identity/id/1587491013
Video of Benjaman K.
I do not hear an accent, but that does not mean much, if anything, it is a regional accent. Dr Phil show brought on a linguist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjaman_Kyle
Info. on BK.

believe09
07-21-2009, 12:29 PM
I spoke with Mr. Kyle recently and he told me two big things-

1.) there may be a documentary shot in the next few months regarding him and his struggle-he and NB are in the early stages of working out the details with the filmakers.

2.) There will be another article featured in the Wichita Eagle regarding him and the forensic geneaolgy findings to date.

I will post more info as I receive it!!!
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Boyz_Mum
07-21-2009, 12:37 PM
This is such good news! Thanks for keeping us up to date believe09! :blowkiss:

believe09
07-21-2009, 12:53 PM
This is such good news! Thanks for keeping us up to date believe09! :blowkiss:

You are so welcome, friend-thank you for your continued support of Mr. Kyle!:blowkiss:

dreamweaver
07-21-2009, 03:08 PM
I spoke with Mr. Kyle recently and he told me two big things-

1.) there may be a documentary shot in the next few months regarding him and his struggle-he and NB are in the early stages of working out the details with the filmakers.

2.) There will be another article featured in the Wichita Eagle regarding him and the forensic geneaolgy findings to date.

I will post more info as I receive it!!!
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

YAY!!
Documentary done by ?
Wichita Eagle? Because of the Kansas connection?

He gets closer and closer to finding his real name/identity.

Thank you, believe09.

:blowkiss:

believe09
07-21-2009, 04:06 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------

YAY!!
Documentary done by ?
Wichita Eagle? Because of the Kansas connection?

He gets closer and closer to finding his real name/identity.

Thank you, believe09.

:blowkiss:

He could not share much about the documentary simply because if you are at all familiar with the competitive world of movie production, people treat the early details like it is a diagram for the atom bomb....there is much that is hush hush while papers are being signed and money being accumulated to fund the concept.

You nailed the motivation for the Wichita location-:blowkiss:

Cubby
07-23-2009, 12:42 AM
I wasn't sure where to post this. Here, or the 'work related' thread, but thought here would be better due to some of the general nature of my thoughts.

I've given quite a bit of consideration on how to utilize my 'contacts' in the Food Service industry regarding getting Mr. Kyles info out to those in the industry and public, and would like some feedback on the following thoughts -or- other idea's suggestions when I make contact. I want to make the most of the potential opportunity with this contact.

Given the time frame of his memories, I think it is excellent to 'key in' on those area's, however with as much time as has passed, it's likely many of those he may have once worked with have quite possibly relocated, retired, moved onto other companies, or other area's within the industries. Because of this, I think it is most important to do whatever we can to get Mr. Kyles information out nationally to the higher ups in the industry who would quite possibly have 'ties' to others within different fields in the industry. I think this would gain the most exposure for Mr. Kyle. I'm also hoping 'retiries' with a strong bond to the industry would still read about industry news - possibly getting his story out to them too.

What I would like to see happen:

1)Get his info, even a quarter page size 'donated' in the ad space area's of the major industry magazines and news letters. I am hoping my contact in the disposable paper and plastic industry, along with his brother- who I just remembered is/was a head chef in an upperscale Chicago area restaurant, can help provide a list of the leading magazines and newsletters in the industry. I would like to see this in both paper and online area's for these magazines and news letters. This would also include NRA, National Restaurant Association, CRA, Colorado restaurant association, and the state restaurant associations for the list of possible states we believe Mr. Kyle may be associated with.

2)Has anyone considered adding Mr. Kyles story to the CNN 'ireport' available online? I do not have an account to add his story, but perhaps one of you with journalistic talent might consider opening an account and writing a story for the ireport? If I understand how the ireport works correctly, there is a chance CNN or HLN may pick up his story and air it nationally. (which would be great!) and the use of the 'tag' feature somehow adds the story to other blogs? Am I understanding this 'chain of events' with ireport and tags correctly?

ETA: or with permission, submit the news articles which have already made local news in Indy, Savaanah, and Colorado, to the ireport. Maybe a combo or edit of the wiki page for ireport?

Those are the two idea's I have now, in addition to whats already being done. Unfortunately, I am still working on a 'broken' computer which limits my ability to do some of this work myself, so for those area's I can't access from my computer, I would like to ask for assistance - if that is ok.

There are also a few other sites I have found via searches, which I was unable to access, or request/submit info regarding Mr. Kyle- due to the computer problems. I would like to, if it is ok, submit these here and ask others to give it a shot. I'd have to look again, but one of them was a 'lost and found' in the industry news. Kind of a thing, where if someone lost contact with "John Smith who used to work for ABC food supply, where are they now? The site owner has followed up with locating some of these 'lost contacts'. Perhaps he or she would too be willing to add Mr. Kyles info to locate someone who may remember working or associating with him in the bus.

Thoughts? Yay, nay?

Thanks!
Cubby

Cubby
07-23-2009, 04:53 AM
Can't sleep, so up out of bed and back to the computer.

When I speak to the VP for the Disposable paper, plastics, and janitorial supplies 're-d', I am also going to request they add something to their 'monthly specials' regarding Mr. Kyle. It's been a great many years, more than 10, so I am uncertain whether they still put out a paper mailer, or the specials are only available online, either way, if he agrees, this will get Mr. Kyle's story out to distributors in this area of the restaurant industry. I'm hoping they will agree, especially if they can write it off somehow as a charitable donation. (I'm unsure if they can- but worth looking into- does anyone know?).

It might be a great resource to request as well, with those who have 'contacts' in the food and equipment area's of the business. Particularly those suppliers we know include the locations Mr. Kyle is familiar with. Perhaps a list of suppliers of food and equipment in Colorado, or covering Colorado in their market might be a good idea? We can make that request to them, and update if they agree and get the info out?

I'm going to present this as a 'community service'/'goodwill' - sort of thing because of Mr. Kyles knowledge of the industry. Pray it's a go! I think it would be a great avenue for Mr. Kyle.

Thoughts?

Thank you.
Cubby

Micheline
07-24-2009, 02:17 PM
Hi to all.

I have a question about Benjaman Kyle.
When he was found back in 2004 would there not be several aspects that could indicate more about his identity?

By this I mean, did he have long hair or was his hair clean cut, did he have a barbe or was he shaved, how about his teeth and nails those sort of things.

In order for the police to think he was a homeless man, would they not if he was well groomed realise he was not a homeless man?

I also read he was legally blind and could not see himself till he had surgery, does that not indicate that maybe he had suffered memory loss for even much longer then since he was found, if he could not see he may not have been working, but he must have stayed somewhere not being able to see for quite some time then?

I had never heard about him prior, I did see there was a lot of discussion about him here and people trying to help him which is great, I hope someone is willing to fill me in about more details of how he was found.

He did say he was In Georgia because he wanted to see the sea, does that mean he knew why he was there or was he referring to why he continued to stay in Georgia? TIA

believe09
07-24-2009, 03:53 PM
Hi to all.

I have a question about Benjaman Kyle.
When he was found back in 2004 would there not be several aspects that could indicate more about his identity?

By this I mean, did he have long hair or was his hair clean cut, did he have a barbe or was he shaved, how about his teeth and nails those sort of things.

In order for the police to think he was a homeless man, would they not if he was well groomed realise he was not a homeless man?

I also read he was legally blind and could not see himself till he had surgery, does that not indicate that maybe he had suffered memory loss for even much longer then since he was found, if he could not see he may not have been working, but he must have stayed somewhere not being able to see for quite some time then?

I had never heard about him prior, I did see there was a lot of discussion about him here and people trying to help him which is great, I hope someone is willing to fill me in about more details of how he was found.

He did say he was In Georgia because he wanted to see the sea, does that mean he knew why he was there or was he referring to why he continued to stay in Georgia? TIA

Welcome!!!

there are not any photos of him from when he was rescued because the responders did not believe a crime had been committed until sometime after he arrived in the ER. There was an incident report written up that is sparse so there is no description of him beyond what has been reported...no hair length etc.

His tox screens were clean and when he began to speak my understanding is that the realization hit the staff that he was unlikely a "bum" but more likely an assault victim.

Memory issues and vision issues prior to the assault could very well have been a part of his life, but it is tough to say given the fact that he remembers little of his first month in the hospital or the previous 15-20 years....most of his recollections even now are from the 80's or earlier.

What interests me about his statement that he thinks he was in GA to view the sea is that it is a faster flight to the West Coast from Denver and the alternative name of the hwy where he was found is Ocean Hwy IIRC.

I hope this helps and keep the ideas flowing!!

DotsEyes
07-24-2009, 05:18 PM
Benjaman believes he was raised Catholic and knows of 2 states where he believes he lived, Indiana and Colorado. If he remembers being Catholic, then he attended Mass and/or a Catholic school or could have been raised in a Catholic Orphanage. There is a finite number of Catholic Churches in both states. For example, Indianapolis has about 33 Catholic Churches.

What if we each took a city in one of the states and sent a BK flyer with information to all the Catholic Churches to be placed on the church bulletin board in the vestibule? Someone may recognize him or the family resemblance.

I am willing to take Indianapolis, but I think this should be an all out effort with the letters going out en masse to the Churches.

Anyone else? Can we organize this?

dreamweaver
07-24-2009, 06:23 PM
[quote=DotsEyes;3985224]Benjaman believes he was raised Catholic and knows of 2 states where he believes he lived, Indiana and Colorado. If he remembers being Catholic, then he attended Mass and/or a Catholic school or could have been raised in a Catholic Orphanage. There is a finite number of Catholic Churches in both states. For example, Indianapolis has about 33 Catholic Churches.

What if we each took a city in one of the states and sent a BK flyer with information to all the Catholic Churches to be placed on the church bulletin board in the vestibule? Someone may recognize him or the family resemblance.

I am willing to take Indianapolis, but I think this should be an all out effort with the letters going out en masse to the Churches.
================================
I think this has been done. And I think even FBI or LE have done it, but I should defer to believe09. I think she has the most up to date info.

Cubby
07-24-2009, 07:22 PM
My honest opinion. And I don't mean to be discouraging, but the memories Mr. Kyle has from Colorado and Indiana are quite some time ago. Even if he went to Catholic grammer school, he would have likely finished the 8th grade in 1962 if his birth year is actually 1948. I didn't get the impression he actively participated in the Catholic faith as an adult. - so trying to find someone who remembers him from say the late 50's through the early 80's is more of a long shot....

It is my opinion, that with his 'visiting the ocean' along the SE area of the country, it is likely he hadn't resided in Colorado at the time he decided to take that trip. He could have lived anywhere, and resided in a number of states prior to being found. Pure speculation, but it is possible he retired early, took a buy out of some kind and went to travel, thus those missing him thought he simply liked where he visited and decided to stay and hoped for contact which they never received. I mean heck, he could have left Denver and lived in Missouri for a decade before traveling SE.

It is my opinion, the very best shot we have to work collectively as a group, is to inundate the food service industry, focusing first on Food and Equipment as he mentioned. (and asking those in the industry to pass his info along to everyone and anyone they know in the industry.)
I know there is no way I can cover every food service industry myself. I know from working in the industry for 7 years, many many people are in it for 15-30+ years. The food service is a for sure- he has that knowledge. I really think that avenue country wide, starting with the area's we know he remembers and his dialect, and working outwards. Otherwise I am afraid it would be looking for info on Mr. Kyles identity from a subway map between brooklyn and queens-so to speak.

hth - thanks. jmo
Cubby

Cubby
07-24-2009, 07:29 PM
FWIW, legally blind doesn't mean he couldn't see. It could have been his eye sight was poor but he could still see with help. His possibly going without medical attention for his eye sight, imo, further supports my theory that he may have retired early, or taken a buy out of some kind but no longer had medical insurance to get his eye sight corrected. A great many people don't have insurance but get by with poor vision either purchasing reading glasses at Walgreens, or someplace similiar.

jmo of course.

Cubs'

JamesSmith
07-24-2009, 08:17 PM
Hello Websleuths.com Community!

I'd like to formally introduce myself. My name is James Smith and I am one of the filmmakers who are working on a feature documentary about Benjaman Kyle. I used to work in Hollywood where I first contacted Benjaman while working at a popular daytime talk show. Ever since then I have been in contact with Mr. Kyle and am excited to begin work on a documentary that will raise awareness about Mr. Kyle and also hopefully contribute to his identification. We have been in preproduction planning for about two months now and we will begin shooting initial interviews in August.

We'd like to welcome the Websleuths.com community to help in different ways throughout the process. So please check back often for ways you can help.

First, we'd like to ask for your help naming the documentary. Several names have been tossed around in preproduction meetings, but we thought it would be fun to ask you for help. So, please reply with any names you can think of for the documentary on Mr. Kyle. We look forward to seeing what the community comes up with!

Legal: If we select your name it will become property of the documentary and no compensation will be made for its use.

Micheline
07-24-2009, 08:25 PM
Welcome!!!

there are not any photos of him from when he was rescued because the responders did not believe a crime had been committed until sometime after he arrived in the ER. There was an incident report written up that is sparse so there is no description of him beyond what has been reported...no hair length etc.

His tox screens were clean and when he began to speak my understanding is that the realization hit the staff that he was unlikely a "bum" but more likely an assault victim.

Memory issues and vision issues prior to the assault could very well have been a part of his life, but it is tough to say given the fact that he remembers little of his first month in the hospital or the previous 15-20 years....most of his recollections even now are from the 80's or earlier.

What interests me about his statement that he thinks he was in GA to view the sea is that it is a faster flight to the West Coast from Denver and the alternative name of the hwy where he was found is Ocean Hwy IIRC.

I hope this helps and keep the ideas flowing!!

Thanks for explaining believe09!

If his hair length was unknown nor if he had a barb would it not be an idea to make a photo shopped pic of him with barb and/or with longer hair?
Maybe people have known him for years with a barb and would not recognize him without it.

If he was legally blind when found and probably had been for sometime he could not have lived on his own, maybe he did have surgery at some point that did not work out and did not try it again, could he have been staying in a center for visually handicapped?

I was also thinking, who ever harmed him and took of his clothes may not want people to find out who he is, if his ID and clothes were taken from him, maybe his hair was cut and maybe his barb shaved, maybe he was left behind in another state on purpose.
Are there listings of people who died on or around the day he was found?
Maybe a life insurance was a motive, so many possibilities, such a strange case.

Fairy1
07-24-2009, 08:41 PM
Thanks for explaining believe09!

If his hair length was unknown nor if he had a barb would it not be an idea to make a photo shopped pic of him with barb and/or with longer hair?
Maybe people have known him for years with a barb and would not recognize him without it.

If he was legally blind when found and probably had been for sometime he could not have lived on his own, maybe he did have surgery at some point that did not work out and did not try it again, could he have been staying in a center for visually handicapped?

I was also thinking, who ever harmed him and took of his clothes may not want people to find out who he is, if his ID and clothes were taken from him, maybe his hair was cut and maybe his barb shaved, maybe he was left behind in another state on purpose.
Are there listings of people who died on or around the day he was found?
Maybe a life insurance was a motive, so many possibilities, such a strange case.


BBM - I have considered this too Micheline - that the people who would recognize him are the very same people that harmed him. It would certainly explain why no one has come forward or ever reported him as missing. That being said, it seems to me that he still would have had friends, acquaintances or even family members who would have discovered he had disappeared. Unless they were told he had passed away, in which case no one would be looking for him and a story about a man with amnesia wouldn't necessarily peak their interest.

Somewhere on this earth is at least one person who can solve this puzzle!

CrankyPants
07-24-2009, 08:55 PM
My mom worked at a bank in Denver during the 80s & 90s and had many customers in the restaurant industry that she knew quite well. I've sent her a link to Mr Kyle's info and photo in the off chance she might remember him. She is no longer in the Denver area and likely has not heard the story yet. It's a long shot, but....who knows, right? I will post back if she has any tips/info.

carolwood
07-25-2009, 12:00 AM
[quote=DotsEyes;3985224]Benjaman believes he was raised Catholic and knows of 2 states where he believes he lived, Indiana and Colorado. If he remembers being Catholic, then he attended Mass and/or a Catholic school or could have been raised in a Catholic Orphanage. There is a finite number of Catholic Churches in both states. For example, Indianapolis has about 33 Catholic Churches.

What if we each took a city in one of the states and sent a BK flyer with information to all the Catholic Churches to be placed on the church bulletin board in the vestibule? Someone may recognize him or the family resemblance.

I am willing to take Indianapolis, but I think this should be an all out effort with the letters going out en masse to the Churches.
================================
I think this has been done. And I think even FBI or LE have done it, but I should defer to believe09. I think she has the most up to date info.

As for the catholic communities, this has been taken care of. I personally emailed over 1200 emails to Colorado, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, and Indiana Catholic Churches, church bulletins, etc. The Indianapolis Diocese is aware of Benjaman. I think they actually appeared on Dr. Phil Show along with Benjaman.

carolwood
07-25-2009, 12:28 AM
Hello Websleuths.com Community!

I'd like to formally introduce myself. My name is James Smith and I am one of the filmmakers who are working on a feature documentary about Benjaman Kyle. I used to work in Hollywood where I first contacted Benjaman while working at a popular daytime talk show. Ever since then I have been in contact with Mr. Kyle and am excited to begin work on a documentary that will raise awareness about Mr. Kyle and also hopefully contribute to his identification. We have been in preproduction planning for about two months now and we will begin shooting initial interviews in August.

We'd like to welcome the Websleuths.com community to help in different ways throughout the process. So please check back often for ways you can help.

First, we'd like to ask for your help naming the documentary. Several names have been tossed around i n preproduction meetings, but we thought it would be fun to ask you for help. So, please reply with any names you can think of for the documentary on Mr. Kyle. We look forward to seeing what the community comes up with!

Legal: If we select your name it will become property of the documentary and no compensation will be made for its use.

Welcome JAMESSMITH!
I'm one of the amateur genealogists here, and I am presently working the genealogy of the JOSEPH POWELL line. I have quite a bit of information on this line.
I had to literally go thru several hundred pages of the 1870 census, which I just finished to correct mistakes that is on the web. If this is some interest to you, please let me know. I do have one family that left Kentucky and went to Indiana (so far, from the above line).

As for the naming....

AM I A POWELL?

A MAN WITH AMNESIA, RECOGNIZE HIM?

OR MAN WITH AMNESIA, RECOGNIZE HIM?

A MAN WITHOUT A NAME

dreamweaver
07-25-2009, 07:12 AM
Thanks for explaining believe09!

If his hair length was unknown nor if he had a barb would it not be an idea to make a photo shopped pic of him with barb and/or with longer hair?
Maybe people have known him for years with a barb and would not recognize him without it.

If he was legally blind when found and probably had been for sometime he could not have lived on his own, maybe he did have surgery at some point that did not work out and did not try it again, could he have been staying in a center for visually handicapped?

I was also thinking, who ever harmed him and took of his clothes may not want people to find out who he is, if his ID and clothes were taken from him, maybe his hair was cut and maybe his barb shaved, maybe he was left behind in another state on purpose.
Are there listings of people who died on or around the day he was found?
Maybe a life insurance was a motive, so many possibilities, such a strange case.
===========================================

So many possibilities out there.
It was just very recently that I read that BK was legally blind, that the cataracts developed over time, as they usually do.
But, the original medical speculation was that the cataracts developed around the time of his attack, a prolonged exposure to the sun. This has been explored extensively in early posts.

And it is correct as others posted that people can see if they have cataracts.

As for people who died around the time of his attack:
I researched this, thinking maybe he came to that Georgia area for a funeral. I found nothing that seemed to fit.
But please take a look ....
the more fresh eyes that look at this case, the better.

dreamweaver
07-25-2009, 07:32 AM
Welcome JAMESSMITH:

Ideas for name of documentary:
Mr K goes to Georgia.
Real Amnesia, Real Loss.
The Strangest Amnesia Case.
Man Without a Country.
August 31, 2004 Mystery.
The Real Mystery of the Crime:
Appeared from Thin Air.
Mr. Kyle. Mr Powell. Which One is He?
The Mystery Starts Here.
Found. Without A Trace.
One Hot Summer Night.

That's a start.

believe09
07-25-2009, 09:08 AM
Hello Websleuths.com Community!

I'd like to formally introduce myself. My name is James Smith and I am one of the filmmakers who are working on a feature documentary about Benjaman Kyle. I used to work in Hollywood where I first contacted Benjaman while working at a popular daytime talk show. Ever since then I have been in contact with Mr. Kyle and am excited to begin work on a documentary that will raise awareness about Mr. Kyle and also hopefully contribute to his identification. We have been in preproduction planning for about two months now and we will begin shooting initial interviews in August.

We'd like to welcome the Websleuths.com community to help in different ways throughout the process. So please check back often for ways you can help.

First, we'd like to ask for your help naming the documentary. Several names have been tossed around in preproduction meetings, but we thought it would be fun to ask you for help. So, please reply with any names you can think of for the documentary on Mr. Kyle. We look forward to seeing what the community comes up with!

Legal: If we select your name it will become property of the documentary and no compensation will be made for its use.

Welcome, JamesSmith-

I am going to establish a seperate thread for the documentary so it will simplify your process of gathering information, ideas, data, whatever.

believe09
07-25-2009, 09:36 AM
Thanks for explaining believe09!

If his hair length was unknown nor if he had a barb would it not be an idea to make a photo shopped pic of him with barb and/or with longer hair?
Maybe people have known him for years with a barb and would not recognize him without it.

If he was legally blind when found and probably had been for sometime he could not have lived on his own, maybe he did have surgery at some point that did not work out and did not try it again, could he have been staying in a center for visually handicapped?

I was also thinking, who ever harmed him and took of his clothes may not want people to find out who he is, if his ID and clothes were taken from him, maybe his hair was cut and maybe his barb shaved, maybe he was left behind in another state on purpose.
Are there listings of people who died on or around the day he was found?
Maybe a life insurance was a motive, so many possibilities, such a strange case.

I love the idea of the photo shopped picture with longer hair!! We have pictures of him everywhere-do you know how to do this and can you post some results??

For me personally, the idea of an insurance scam or that he was a victim of someone close to him jumps the shark a little simply because it seems so convoluted.

FWIW-I envision Mr. Kyle as someone who was perhaps "in the system" as a young child....foster child, orphan or adopted. I wonder if his previous persona was as a loner-he was the manager of the grocery store that you always smiled at but never knew his name...that kind of thing. He strikes me as being tremendously learn-ed, but maybe in a self taught way to some degree. I mean the things he recalls, he knows the depth and breadth of them!!!!

I am of two minds regarding his cataracts-I think his field of vision was narrowing over time, but he has expressed to me the opposite view that they were traumatic in nature.

I think he was the victim of a crime that involved a stranger or strangers who are long gone-if he has a handle on his birthdate, then the date of his assault was pretty close to his birthday. I can envision him deciding to celebrate in a hotel while he was away from home and perhaps running into the wrong people...I do not think it is out of the question that he was slipped a roofie of some kind given his physical size, and his wallet and vehicle were taken. I think the lack of clothing could have been an attempt to delay his pursuit of them, or it is also possible that he removed them himself because of shock.

I wish I could go back in time and search that dumpster-I wish the first responders had done a better job of pursuing this as a crime rather than as a nuisance. We will never know if there were similar incidents because of the lack of cooperation of the local hotels and car rental agencies-they have a reporting structure whenever LE are called and they fight like cats to avoid any black marks. I suspect his luggage was auctioned or disposed of long ago.

I pray that this is the year that this humble, bright, funny man is given the means to move forward with his present identity or given his name back.

Peace...

CrankyPants
07-25-2009, 02:39 PM
Received a reply from my mom (the bank employee)--Mr. Kyle's photo didn't set off any immediate bells. She did say that he seemed familiar, but thought maybe that was because he looks like such a nice man. She'll let me know if she recalls anything of importance.

That being said, if banks haven't been specifically sought out to send flyers to, it might be a good idea. Mom was in "new accounts" but ended up having long-standing relationships with her customers--business customers in particular.

Cubby
07-26-2009, 07:28 PM
Not to have too much discussion on the thread specifically for questions for Mr. Kyle, WLS am could have been heard hundreds, possibly a thousand miles away.. thus Mr. Kyle's memory of hearing Dick Biondi on the radio is probably not relevent to tying a specific location. FWIW, Biondi was first on the air in Chicago from 60-63, went to LA in 64...... then had a syndicated show in 64-65 which reached 125 cities.

Cubby
07-27-2009, 05:20 PM
Hi All,

I spoke with Bob- and am going to send him some of Mr. Kyles information. I didn't have the opportunity to ask if R3 has currently expanded their market into the Colorado area, but he IS willing to see what he can do, and will contact some GM's in the Colorado area - and other GM's with Mr. Kyles info.

Hopefully I will get some feedback from him or other GM's in the business, as I will pass along the links for WS and give him permission to share my email address with others in the industry.

Actually, I think I will set up a new one specifically for this search for Mr. Kyle's identity.

PRAY! We get some results from this!

Thank you BOB! YOU ROCK!

Cubby

believe09
07-27-2009, 06:46 PM
OK you number junkies-

Wikipedia has been updated to reflect the fact that BK had a partial recollection of an SSN. The Numbers are as follows:
3x5-44-xxxx.

For those of you who have been following the SSN number cracking debacle making the headlines, the rules regarding SSN creation is as follows:
The first three numbers represent the state the card was assigned in.
The next two numbers are the group number
The last 4 are the serial number.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/social-security-number2.htm

So for example,
303-317 State of Indiana

318-361 State of Illinois

362-386 State of MI

387-399 State of WI

Group numbers are used to break up the area numbers into smaller groups. They are 01-99....but then it gets better. The odd numbers between 01-09 were assigned first. Then even numbers between 10-98 were assigned next. (Mr. K's group) After that, the numbers 02-08 are assigned and then 11-99, odd numbers.

This is where I personally need help, lol-there is a website that will tell you the last set of numbers assigned for each year from 2003 up to 2007. The numbers have not wrapped around again, so at least that challenge can be set aside. I tried to use the SSDI index and the website to guestimate when Mr. K was assigned his SSN...meaning what year....figuring it might get us close to his birth year. For example, in the SSDI I put in an ssn of 305-44-001. This brought up a gentleman from Indiana who had been born in 1943.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvhighgroup.htm

RU With me so far???

SSOOOO, If Mr. K has remembered his numbers correctly his ssn will start:
305-44-xxxx
315-44-xxxx
325-44-xxxx
335-44-xxxx
ETC...

Can anyone think of a way to narrow this down that does not include going to SSA? I have spoken with many folks there who a lovely and wish they could help, but although they could likely take those numbers and take it down to a few given an age range, they cannot because of privacy.

Rock meet hardplace.

Cubby
07-27-2009, 06:55 PM
Call me confused, lol. I'll have to take a look at this again in a bit Believe. Where did I just read, (correct me if I am wrong) the first 3 digits of an SSN were generated based on the zip code from which the SS application was sent. Hmm.... which would lead me to wonder, with Mr. Kyles estimated birth year of 1948- did hospitals send out the request for an SS number at that time? Or, was it the parents that would have done so from home? Anyone know?

Which leads me to yet another question for Mr. Kyle - do any Zip Codes pop into his mind, if so, what are they? We can research where they were and cross reference the SSN that way possibly?

Thanks Believe!

ETA: I think I am incorrect about the zip code thing.... I think it was just state specific by year and not zip code specific in the coding of the SSN prefix.

hyldo
07-27-2009, 07:13 PM
Hmm.... which would lead me to wonder, with Mr. Kyles estimated birth year of 1948- did hospitals send out the request for an SS number at that time? Or, was it the parents that would have done so from home? Anyone know?

The parents would have done it from where they were residing, and they may not have done it for several years after the birth. I can still remember when I got my Social Security number. The IRS only started to require SSNs for dependents in 1987, which was the same year the SSA started to issue numbers at birth.

DotsEyes
07-27-2009, 07:29 PM
Combining the SSN information with his recollection of Indiana, then am I correct to think that his SSN is 305-44-XXXX or 315-44-XXXX? There are a lot of numbers for XXXX! LOL

You have Indiana and the number issued in the second group (44) for a starting point which is great. I have no idea where to go from there without a name or a date of birth.

I am overwhelmed with the staggering numbers of possibilites.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 07:34 PM
3x5 was issued in Indiana, sorry

http://genealogy.about.com/od/social_security/a/numbers.htm

Cubby
07-27-2009, 07:40 PM
I found a site which lists the 3X5-44 numbers of SS, where and what years they were issued.
(can't copy the link, but this is from the site-

Decoding Social Security Numbers in One Step

Stephen P. Morse (steve@stevemorse.org), San Francisco



As follow

305-44 IN 1958-1959
315-44 IN 1960-1961
325-44 IL 1965-1966
335-44 IL 1966
345-44 IL 1966
355-44 IL 1966-1967
365-44 MI 1960-1961
375-44 MI 1960-1961
385-44 MI 1961-1962
395-44 WI 1961-1962


Snipped from believes post above:

For example, in the SSDI I put in an ssn of 305-44-001. This brought up a gentleman from Indiana who had been born in 1943.



A man born in 1943 first having an SSN issued in 1958 or 1959, would indicate to me he first needed an SSN when applying for work at either 15 or 16. IIRC people were allowed to work with a work permit at age 15. I'm unsure if that was specific to a state, or a federal law. Thus, leading me to believe Mr. Kyles SSN would either be the 305 or 315, if issued in Indiana, but why would a person need a SSN at 10 or 11 if Mr. Kyles estimated birth year is 1948? An IL issued SSN of 325,335, or 345 would make logical sense if Mr. Kyle were residing in IL or near the IL/IN border when first applying for a job at 1965 at the age of 16. Most likely a 325 prefix- which was issued the year he would have been 16.

Thoughts on where we might be able to go from here with this?

carolwood
07-27-2009, 08:06 PM
These came up in the death index for 305-44- with a Powell surname:

Herman Powell, birth: 8-30-1939, death: 4-6-08, Last residence: Richmond, Wayne County, Indiana.
Dorothy E. Powell, birth: 7-14-1942, death: 4-24-2008, last residence: Connersville, Fayette County, Indiana.
Marguerit Powell, birth: 3-28-1911, death: 1-1986, last residence: Shreveport, La.
Ronald D. Powell, birth: 11-14-1941, death 10-18-2004, last residence Madison, Jefferson, In.

This one came up in the death index for 315-44- with a Powell surname:

RUSSELL T POWELL, birth: 23 May 1944, death: 18 Nov 2000 (P), last residence: (72), Issued in Indiana.

Cubby
07-27-2009, 08:15 PM
These came up in the death index for 305-44- with a Powell surname:

Herman Powell, birth: 8-30-1939, death: 4-6-08, Last residence: Richmond, Wayne County, Indiana.
Dorothy E. Powell, birth: 7-14-1942, death: 4-24-2008, last residence: Connersville, Fayette County, Indiana.
Marguerit Powell, birth: 3-28-1911, death: 1-1986, last residence: Shreveport, La.
Ronald D. Powell, birth: 11-14-1941, death 10-18-2004, last residence Madison, Jefferson, In.

This one came up in the death index for 315-44- with a Powell surname:

RUSSELL T POWELL, birth: 23 May 1944, death: 18 Nov 2000 (P), last residence: (72), Issued in Indiana.


Great idea carolwood. It's possible that either Herman or Ronald could be siblings of Mr. Kyle. I think I'd nix Marguerit, since she passed away in 86 having lived so close to the ocean. I'd think Mr. Kyle would have visited the ocean, and his mother, long before 2004.... (if that makes sense)

Because Mr. Kyle has specific memories of the Indiana fair, is there a way to search those Powells, born in Marion County IN? either siblings who might be close in birth year, (10 years either side of 1948) or parents old enough to have bore children in those years. I forget if Mr. Kyle remembers his birth order. Where his brothers older, younger, both?

Hmmmm....... got the mind thinking.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 08:16 PM
Without the powell surname there are 2169 people in the death index for 305-44.

Without the powell surname there are 1722 people in the death index for 315-44.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 08:18 PM
Great idea carolwood. It's possible that either Herman or Ronald could be siblings of Mr. Kyle. I think I'd nix Marguerit, since she passed away in 86 having lived so close to the ocean. I'd think Mr. Kyle would have visited the ocean, and his mother, long before 2004.... (if that makes sense)

Because Mr. Kyle has specific memories of the Indiana fair, is there a way to search those Powells, born in Marion County IN? either siblings who might be close in birth year, (10 years either side of 1948) or parents old enough to have bore children in those years. I forget if Mr. Kyle remembers his birth order. Where his brothers older, younger, both?

Hmmmm....... got the mind thinking.

I am on it. I will do a obit scan and see what comes up...

carolwood
07-27-2009, 08:26 PM
Herman Powell, obituary:

RICHMOND, Ind. -- Herman Powell, age 68, of Richmond, died Sunday, April 6, 2008, at his residence with his family and friends at his side.

He was born Aug. 30, 1939, in Rock Castle County, Ky., to Matt and America "Merkie" Owens Powell and had resided in Richmond since 1959.


Herman worked for the Richmond Casket Co. over 10 years and retired as a boiler repairman at the Richmond State Hospital after 20 years.

He was an active member of Full Gospel Chapel where he served as trustee. Herman enjoyed his church, raising, caring for and training horses and spending time with family.

Survivors include his wife of 48 years, Kathleen Scott Powell; son, Michael H. Powell of Richmond; granddaughter, Becky Powell of Richmond; brothers, Matt (Ruby) Powell Jr. and Ray (Barbara) Powell, both of Mount Vernon, Ky.; sisters, Ethel (Bill) Day of Liberty, Ind., Mildred (Roscoe) Himes of Orlando, Ky.; six nieces, Linda Neal, Kim Sexton, Mona Powell, Carla Gully, Carolyn Holt and Sandra Himes; five nephews, Melvin Powell, Zandel Powell, Ricky Day, Roy Lee Day and Alvin Day; special brother-in-law, David (Erma) Scott of Cincinnati, Ohio; and a host of friends.

He was preceded in death by his parents.

Funeral service for Herman Powell will be at 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 9, 2008, at Doan & Mills Funeral Home, 790 National Road W., Richmond, with Pastor Darrel J. Hurst officiating. Friends may call from 11 a.m.-1 p.m. Wednesday at the funeral home. Burial will be at 1 p.m. Thursday, April 10, in Corinth Cemetery, Orlando, Ky.

Memorial contributions may be made to the Full Gospel Chapel, 915 Mendleson Drive, Richmond, IN 47374, or the American Cancer Society, Wayne County Unit, P.O. Box 689, Columbus, IN 47202.

Condolences may be sent to the family via the guest book at www.doanmillsfuneralhome.com

040808-29660596-300

no obit for Ronald on ancestry.

Originally published April 8, 2008

Cubby
07-27-2009, 08:29 PM
Thinking out loud:

For some reason, I keep thinking he was possibly born in Indianapolis area and later moved to the NW Indiana area. Why else would he have a specific memory regarding Michael Jackson and being exactly 10 years to the day older than him? Mr Kyle seems a little too old to have been into the Jackson 5 during their prime years.... and his memory, ( also recently updated at Wiki ) of the house on the rock, in Spring Green Wisconsin, is not far from Madison, and the Wisconsin Dells area- which had the Tommy Bartlett Water show back in the day. I can't see someone from the Indianapolis area 'vacationing' near Madison WI. Just so far of a drive. I see that trip much easier from the NW area of IN or NE IL.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 08:45 PM
Great idea carolwood. It's possible that either Herman or Ronald could be siblings of Mr. Kyle. I think I'd nix Marguerit, since she passed away in 86 having lived so close to the ocean. I'd think Mr. Kyle would have visited the ocean, and his mother, long before 2004.... (if that makes sense)

Because Mr. Kyle has specific memories of the Indiana fair, is there a way to search those Powells, born in Marion County IN? either siblings who might be close in birth year, (10 years either side of 1948) or parents old enough to have bore children in those years. I forget if Mr. Kyle remembers his birth order. Where his brothers older, younger, both?

Hmmmm....... got the mind thinking.
The last census online and available to view is 1930. 1940 will be out at the end of this year.

Cubby
07-27-2009, 08:55 PM
The last census online and available to view is 1930. 1940 will be out at the end of this year.


With an estimated birth year of 1948, it is very likely Mr. Kyles parents would have been born by 1930- making them both 18 at the time of his birth in 1948. Is it possible to look up Powells in Marion County for the census year 1930? I do not have access to the census, but could ask someone here who is on another forum if she could get the info for us if no one else is able.

Cubby
07-27-2009, 08:56 PM
I don't think that Herman Powell is related to BK, based on the dates and locations... jmo though. TY Carolwood for looking up the info!

dreamweaver
07-27-2009, 09:07 PM
The parents would have done it from where they were residing, and they may not have done it for several years after the birth. I can still remember when I got my Social Security number. The IRS only started to require SSNs for dependents in 1987, which was the same year the SSA started to issue numbers at birth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

People Benjaman Kyle's age did not apply for their ssn until they were ready to go to work. For most of us, that was around age 16.
I did at age 16 with my best friend. Our ssn's are one ending digit apart, as the local ssn office just typed them out right then and there.

If Benjaman K was born in 1948, he was 16 in 1964.

dreamweaver
07-27-2009, 09:09 PM
Thinking out loud:

For some reason, I keep thinking he was possibly born in Indianapolis area and later moved to the NW Indiana area. Why else would he have a specific memory regarding Michael Jackson and being exactly 10 years to the day older than him? Mr Kyle seems a little too old to have been into the Jackson 5 during their prime years.... and his memory, ( also recently updated at Wiki ) of the house on the rock, in Spring Green Wisconsin, is not far from Madison, and the Wisconsin Dells area- which had the Tommy Bartlett Water show back in the day. I can't see someone from the Indianapolis area 'vacationing' near Madison WI. Just so far of a drive. I see that trip much easier from the NW area of IN or NE IL.
-----------------------------------------------------------

If BK born in 1948, then he would have been 21 yrs old, when Michael Jackson was 11 and just starting to be a success.

dreamweaver
07-27-2009, 09:23 PM
I just emailed a friend. He was born in Indiana and is around the same age. Asking him what the first 3 digits of his ssn are.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 09:59 PM
Here is a photo of Herman Powell:

http://www.doanmillsfuneralhome.com/

may have to search in archived obits.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 10:02 PM
Clinton Powell obit:

http://www.doanmillsfuneralhome.com/

in archived obits

Cubby
07-27-2009, 10:12 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

People Benjaman Kyle's age did not apply for their ssn until they were ready to go to work. For most of us, that was around age 16.
I did at age 16 with my best friend. Our ssn's are one ending digit apart, as the local ssn office just typed them out right then and there.

If Benjaman K was born in 1948, he was 16 in 1964.


Thank you. While mine was ordered at birth, I spoke to my moms SO. He first applied for his at about 16 while working as a farm hand, and the farmers had to pay for the labor. If Mr. Kyle first applied for his SSN at or about 16- it would likely fall in the range of 325-44, in IL in 1965/1966, or 335-44 or 345-44 in 1966. Otherwise the 305-44 and 315-44 were issued in 58-61. Why would a 10-13 yr old need an SS number?

I'm going to look for Powells in the area's of IL/IN 'border' or far south burbs where burger chefs were located about that time.

Going to check the counties besides Will- which might be along that area, and the catholic diocese in that area. I know the diocese of Joliet Covers Will, but I am unsure what covers the southern portions of Cook County which are not in Chicago.

If anyone can find a map of Catholic diocese for NE IL and NW Indiana that would be a great help!

carolwood
07-27-2009, 10:52 PM
With an estimated birth year of 1948, it is very likely Mr. Kyles parents would have been born by 1930- making them both 18 at the time of his birth in 1948. Is it possible to look up Powells in Marion County for the census year 1930? I do not have access to the census, but could ask someone here who is on another forum if she could get the info for us if no one else is able.Yes, I will get it. It is also possible his brothers and/or sisters are older, and he is the baby of the family...
Will find all that fits this scenario.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 10:56 PM
Thank you. While mine was ordered at birth, I spoke to my moms SO. He first applied for his at about 16 while working as a farm hand, and the farmers had to pay for the labor. If Mr. Kyle first applied for his SSN at or about 16- it would likely fall in the range of 325-44, in IL in 1965/1966, or 335-44 or 345-44 in 1966. Otherwise the 305-44 and 315-44 were issued in 58-61. Why would a 10-13 yr old need an SS number?

I'm going to look for Powells in the area's of IL/IN 'border' or far south burbs where burger chefs were located about that time.

Going to check the counties besides Will- which might be along that area, and the catholic diocese in that area. I know the diocese of Joliet Covers Will, but I am unsure what covers the southern portions of Cook County which are not in Chicago.

If anyone can find a map of Catholic diocese for NE IL and NW Indiana that would be a great help!
I might still have this information, hang in there.

carolwood
07-27-2009, 11:00 PM
Here is a list of all the Catholic Diocese in the US.

http://www.parishesonline.com/Scripts/USMap.asp#IL

carolwood
07-28-2009, 01:10 AM
Herman Powell, obituary:

RICHMOND, Ind. -- Herman Powell, age 68, of Richmond, died Sunday, April 6, 2008, at his residence with his family and friends at his side.

He was born Aug. 30, 1939, in Rock Castle County, Ky., to Matt and America "Merkie" Owens Powell and had resided in Richmond since 1959.


Herman worked for the Richmond Casket Co. over 10 years and retired as a boiler repairman at the Richmond State Hospital after 20 years.

He was an active member of Full Gospel Chapel where he served as trustee. Herman enjoyed his church, raising, caring for and training horses and spending time with family.

Survivors include his wife of 48 years, Kathleen Scott Powell; son, Michael H. Powell of Richmond; granddaughter, Becky Powell of Richmond; brothers, Matt (Ruby) Powell Jr. and Ray (Barbara) Powell, both of Mount Vernon, Ky.; sisters, Ethel (Bill) Day of Liberty, Ind., Mildred (Roscoe) Himes of Orlando, Ky.; six nieces, Linda Neal, Kim Sexton, Mona Powell, Carla Gully, Carolyn Holt and Sandra Himes; five nephews, Melvin Powell, Zandel Powell, Ricky Day, Roy Lee Day and Alvin Day; special brother-in-law, David (Erma) Scott of Cincinnati, Ohio; and a host of friends.

He was preceded in death by his parents.

Funeral service for Herman Powell will be at 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 9, 2008, at Doan & Mills Funeral Home, 790 National Road W., Richmond, with Pastor Darrel J. Hurst officiating. Friends may call from 11 a.m.-1 p.m. Wednesday at the funeral home. Burial will be at 1 p.m. Thursday, April 10, in Corinth Cemetery, Orlando, Ky.

Memorial contributions may be made to the Full Gospel Chapel, 915 Mendleson Drive, Richmond, IN 47374, or the American Cancer Society, Wayne County Unit, P.O. Box 689, Columbus, IN 47202.

Condolences may be sent to the family via the guest book at www.doanmillsfuneralhome.com

040808-29660596-300

no obit for Ronald on ancestry.

Originally published April 8, 2008

Herman is the son of Matt Franklin Powell
Matt is the son of William Powell
William is the son of Berry Henderson Powell
Berry is the son of John Powell
John Powell is the son of Lovely Abraham Powell, who is possible brother of Joseph Powell/Jane Massey

Okay, don't get to excited, because this needs to be confirmed. I am only on Berry Henderson's family now. I do have William as a child of Berry, but no marriage listed.(the above info came from an Ancestry file, which is not sourced)

Cubby
07-28-2009, 01:25 AM
and this is the same Joseph Powell from the DNA info? That Massey name sounds familiar. Great Job Carolwood!

carolwood
07-28-2009, 01:36 AM
and this is the same Joseph Powell from the DNA info? That Massey name sounds familiar. Great Job Carolwood!Yes, same one.
With that being said, I have found a file with Berry Henderson Powell as a son of John Henderson Powell from Virginia. I will try to find if John Henderson Powell went to KY. Most files say he is the son of John Powell, son of Lovely Abraham Powell.

Cubby
07-28-2009, 02:12 AM
From Hermans obit:
"He was an active member of Full Gospel Chapel where he served as trustee. Herman enjoyed his church, raising, caring for and training horses and spending time with family"

Mr Kyle answered that he doesn't think he has ever been on a horse, and he remembers being Catholic. I'd put this one off to the side...... based on the info in the obit. (JMO, and I appreciate the research.) I think I would look at church names,- all the Catholic churches I know of are either named after a Saint or the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I think I would look for info on Catholic cemetaries, funeral homes, etc.... something that stands out from the Catholic faith in any obit info, or ancestry info as a starting point. jmo.....

Of course, the Powell surname being of English rather than European decent ( IIRC) throws another spin into this, with my knowledge.

hth.... Of course I could be wrong.....

Cubby

Julessleuther
07-28-2009, 04:07 AM
FWIW: There is a possibility that the Powell family does not know him because he was given up at birth...

I did a search for Catholic orphanages in Indiana, and the main orphanage was in Vincennes, Indiana---St. Vincent's Villa. There was also a The Carmelite Home for Boys in Gary, Indiana.

An interesting thing that I researched is BK's memory of the White River "when it was a dumping ground". It appears that it was not "known" that it was a dumping ground for pesticides until the early 1990's, and was considered one of the most threatened rivers in 1997.

I found a Benjamin Powell who was born Aug 29, 1950 and died in March 1975 in Virginia. His social is 231-74-7792 Notice the 3 in the first section and the 4 in the second section?

Julessleuther
07-28-2009, 06:10 AM
A partial list of SSDI listings for last residence CO, with social starting 305 etc.

Richard E Cole born Aug 15, 1942 died May 25, 2007 Grand Junction, CO (305-44) Issued in Indiana
Willard A Utz born Aug 17, 1937 died April 1993 Aurora, CO (305-44) Issued in Indiana
WILLIAM J CHILES born March 2, 1944 died March 5, 2001 Watkins, CO Issued in Indiana
JAMES R GRAHAM Born August 31, 1943 died Dec 5, 2004 Durango, CO Issued in Indiana
JAMES J CWIAK Born Feb 24, 1951 died June 2, 2003 Colorado Springs, CO Issued in Illinois
GERALD R NEIGHBOURS Born Mar 2, 1948 died June 22, 1993 Denver, CO Issued in Illinois
Dennis Reed Born Dec 18, 1950 died May 1, 2005 Denver, CO Issued Illinois
GEORGE S SEVERINI Born Feb 20, 1952 died Mar 4, 1991 Denver, CO Issued Illinois

believe09
07-28-2009, 06:46 AM
A partial list of SSDI listings for last residence CO, with social starting 305 etc.

Richard E Cole born Aug 15, 1942 died May 25, 2007 Grand Junction, CO (305-44) Issued in Indiana
Willard A Utz born Aug 17, 1937 died April 1993 Aurora, CO (305-44) Issued in Indiana
WILLIAM J CHILES born March 2, 1944 died March 5, 2001 Watkins, CO Issued in Indiana
JAMES R GRAHAM Born August 31, 1943 died Dec 5, 2004 Durango, CO Issued in Indiana
JAMES J CWIAK Born Feb 24, 1951 died June 2, 2003 Colorado Springs, CO Issued in Illinois
GERALD R NEIGHBOURS Born Mar 2, 1948 died June 22, 1993 Denver, CO Issued in Illinois
Dennis Reed Born Dec 18, 1950 died May 1, 2005 Denver, CO Issued Illinois
GEORGE S SEVERINI Born Feb 20, 1952 died Mar 4, 1991 Denver, CO Issued Illinois

My bold/italics JS. This one would interest me because of the DOB-can anyone find an OBIT for him. He has a verified DOD according to SSDI-I wonder how those who are declared dead might be listed???

hyldo
07-28-2009, 07:31 AM
An interesting thing that I researched is BK's memory of the White River "when it was a dumping ground". It appears that it was not "known" that it was a dumping ground for pesticides until the early 1990's, and was considered one of the most threatened rivers in 1997.

That may have been the first time that something about pesticides came out, but Indianapolis residents considered the White River a filthy place long before the early 1990s. There was always a lot of trash dumped into it in the downtown Indy area.

Cubby
07-28-2009, 08:43 AM
My bold/italics JS. This one would interest me because of the DOB-can anyone find an OBIT for him. He has a verified DOD according to SSDI-I wonder how those who are declared dead might be listed???


Here's a partial on the obit:

James Richard 'Jim' Graham
James Richard "Jim" Graham died Sunday, Dec. 5, 2004, at his home in Hesperus. He was 61.
Further info: Married in Baltimore and retired US Air Force.

carolwood
07-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Cubby: Here is a list of the Illinois Catholic Diocese: hopefully this will load for you, they are separate. Check around each website, it should give a mapping of the community.

Catholic Diocese in Illinois:

Chicago: http://www.archdiocese-chgo.org/about_us/statistics.shtm

Chicago: St. Thomas Syro Malabar Church: http://www.thesyromalabarchurch.org/

Belleville: http://www.diobelle.org/

Joliet: http://www.dioceseofjoliet.org/

Peoria: http://www.cdop.org/pages/

Rockford: http://www.rockforddiocese.org/

Springfield: http://www.dio.org/

DotsEyes
07-28-2009, 12:38 PM
Before the SSA started issuing SSN's to infants, schools would give out forms to kids to apply for SSN's. Take home forms.

Also, BK would have needed a SSN for any job he held during high school.

And, don't forget, Selective Service registration. He would have been required to sign up at 18 and would have been issued a SSN at that time, if he didn't have one before.

So, he was born on August 29, 1948 and issued SSN 3X5-44-XXXX.

Anyone know how to reach selective service registration? He would have signed up around August 29, 1966.

SeriouslySearching
07-28-2009, 12:56 PM
Good point, Dots. My question would be how did he avoid being drafted back in that time period?

Btw~ There were many Burger Chefs in Oklahoma.

dreamweaver
07-28-2009, 01:01 PM
FWIW: There is a possibility that the Powell family does not know him because he was given up at birth...

I did a search for Catholic orphanages in Indiana, and the main orphanage was in Vincennes, Indiana---St. Vincent's Villa. There was also a The Carmelite Home for Boys in Gary, Indiana.

An interesting thing that I researched is BK's memory of the White River "when it was a dumping ground". It appears that it was not "known" that it was a dumping ground for pesticides until the early 1990's, and was considered one of the most threatened rivers in 1997.

I found a Benjamin Powell who was born Aug 29, 1950 and died in March 1975 in Virginia. His social is 231-74-7792 Notice the 3 in the first section and the 4 in the second section?
===========================================

Vincennes, IN orphange:
Online sites.
Pictures.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/in/knox/messages/316.html
http://www.vcsc.k12.in.us/tcr/hometownfranklin/orphanage.htm
http://www.vincennesvoice.com/index_files/Page2225.htm

SeriouslySearching
07-28-2009, 02:13 PM
I thought since he called a soft drink a "soda" this map might be beneficial in some way.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/popvssodamap.gif

Julessleuther
07-29-2009, 03:01 AM
I narrowed my search to birth date August 29 for the SSDI search, to see if anything else pops out...(I did not include Herman Powell, as he had previously been discussed.

Name Birthdate Deathdate Social Issued Death Place
Gary Hensel Aug 29, 40 March 1971 Indiana 305-44 None spec
BOYD MCCLUNG Aug 29, 43 Oct 1973 Indiana 315-44 None spec
George Lyon Aug 29, 44 June 1970 Indiana 315-44 None spec
Linn K Howle Aug 29, 50 Sep 12, 2004 Illinois 345-44 Simpson, IL
Stephan Spiller Aug 29, 51 Aug 1976 Illinois 355-44 None spec
Leroy Pettit Aug 29, 40 Feb 1982 Michigan 365-44 Columbiaville, MI
Robert Davis Aug 29, 43 Feb 1972 Michigan 385-44 None spec
Donald Smith Aug 29, 46 Nov 24, 2000 Wisconsin 295-44 None spec

I know that Royal Miller was suggested in the past, and ruled out because of eye color. http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=2870126000483 Do we know if there was also a DNA comparison made? He looks SO much like BK to me, even the shape of the ears. I know the eye color is different, but I researched whether eye color could change due to cataract surgery, and it does appear that eye color can change (usually lighter) with trauma. Here are some links about eye color change.
http://www.wonderquest.com/eye-color-age.htm

dreamweaver
07-29-2009, 04:49 AM
Royal C Miller: Just looked at his info again.
Those dark brown eyes. I just don't think they
could change to the blue eyes BK has.
Royal's nose: wider than BK's.

But there is always a possibility.

dreamweaver
07-29-2009, 04:50 AM
312 xx xxxx
My friend emailed back and he said
his ssn starts 312.

He was born in Vincennes, IN.

believe09
07-29-2009, 09:08 AM
I narrowed my search to birth date August 29 for the SSDI search, to see if anything else pops out...(I did not include Herman Powell, as he had previously been discussed.

Name Birthdate Deathdate Social Issued Death Place
Gary Hensel Aug 29, 40 March 1971 Indiana 305-44 None spec
BOYD MCCLUNG Aug 29, 43 Oct 1973 Indiana 315-44 None spec
George Lyon Aug 29, 44 June 1970 Indiana 315-44 None spec
Linn K Howle Aug 29, 50 Sep 12, 2004 Illinois 345-44 Simpson, IL
Stephan Spiller Aug 29, 51 Aug 1976 Illinois 355-44 None spec
Leroy Pettit Aug 29, 40 Feb 1982 Michigan 365-44 Columbiaville, MI
Robert Davis Aug 29, 43 Feb 1972 Michigan 385-44 None spec
Donald Smith Aug 29, 46 Nov 24, 2000 Wisconsin 295-44 None spec

I know that Royal Miller was suggested in the past, and ruled out because of eye color. http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=2870126000483 Do we know if there was also a DNA comparison made? He looks SO much like BK to me, even the shape of the ears. I know the eye color is different, but I researched whether eye color could change due to cataract surgery, and it does appear that eye color can change (usually lighter) with trauma. Here are some links about eye color change.
http://www.wonderquest.com/eye-color-age.htm

Who want's to do a little sleuthing with Royal? Can someone call Pomona and see if there is hold back info in the file-does he have fingerprints, DNA, tattoos, a medical disability etc....

believe09
07-29-2009, 09:13 AM
SNIP
Name Birthdate Deathdate Social Issued Death Place
Gary Hensel Aug 29, 40 March 1971 Indiana 305-44 None spec
BOYD MCCLUNG Aug 29, 43 Oct 1973 Indiana 315-44 None spec
George Lyon Aug 29, 44 June 1970 Indiana 315-44 None spec
Stephan Spiller Aug 29, 51 Aug 1976 Illinois 355-44 None spec
SNIP

These ones typically are Vietnam casualties, but of course they are well worth checking out. I mean, it is hard for me to believe that every single person who served was fingerprinted and that the file is available, but what do I know? :rolleyes:

Cubby
07-29-2009, 04:05 PM
While Dick Biondi's show would have been heard far beyond the boundaries of the Chicago broadcast area because of it airing in the evenings, it is possible Mr. Kyle may recall DJ personalities who aired on some of the local AM stations during the day. I am going to work on compiling a list of am stations and daytime dj's from 1955 through 1970 if I can. These stations would NOT have been heard outside the area during daytime broadcast. If mr Kyle remembers any of the bigger name local dj's it would be a stronger confirmation he grew up in the NW Indiana area.

It may take some time, when I have this compiled I will add it to the question thread for Mr. Kyle. I want to try and eliminate as much discussion on idea's or theory's on that thread, not to 'overwhelm' him with the tremendous amount of info here in this forum, and for him to not feel obligated to read this entire forum. (which would be a task in itself for anyone new to the forum here.)

dreamweaver
07-29-2009, 05:48 PM
Good point, Dots. My question would be how did he avoid being drafted back in that time period?

Btw~ There were many Burger Chefs in Oklahoma.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I think WS has lots of info about who and why men were not drafted.
I looked up several sites myself.

But, as I remember it,
Physical showed 4F, could not pass the physical.
Draft number was a good one.
In college.
Could have been a conscientious objector: but might still have been fingerprinted.
Could have fled to Canada. Big anti-war sentiment then.

believe09
07-29-2009, 05:51 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I think WS has lots of info about who and why men were not drafted.
I looked up several sites myself.

But, as I remember it,
Physical showed 4F, could not pass the physical.
Draft number was a good one.
In college.
Could have been a conscientious objector: but might still have been fingerprinted.
Could have fled to Canada. Big anti-war sentiment then.

My bold and italics-now this would be a fascinating turn of events given how strongly he feels about relinquishing his citizenship in order to get a new SSN...