View Full Version : Statement Analysis & Related Info
If you're into dectecting hard-to-spot inconsistencies and attempts at deception, etc these are must-reads; And imo, there are many conspicuous examples and descriptions in these articles which are applicable to comparable parts of the Cummings case (and others) for instance, per the 911 call, interviews, transcripts etc....
If you only have time for a couple of them, I'd go with either:
1.) "911 Calls and Statement Analysis" or
2.) "Statement Analysis: What Do Words Really Reveal?"
3.) "Are You Telling Me the Truth? Indicators of Veracity in Written Statements"
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"Indicators of Veracity and Deception: An Analysis of Written Statements Made to Police,” from The International Journal of Speech, Language and the Law, 2006 Dr. John P Jarvis and Dr. Susan H Adams.
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sadams_jarvis_032106.pdf
"911 Calls and Statement Analysis," 2008, Dr, Susan H Adams, co-authored with Lt. Tracy Harpster
(scroll way down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_june08leb.pdf
“Are You Telling Me the Truth? Indicators of Veracity in Written Statements,” [/b]2004
(scroll down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_oct04leb.pdf
“Statement Analysis Case Study: Beyond the Words,” 2004 (scroll way down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_april04leb.pdf
“Criminal Confessions: Overcoming the Challenges,” 2002, Dr, Susan H. Adams, co-authored with Michael Napier (scroll down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_nov02leb.pdf
“Subtle Skills for Building Rapport: Using Neuro-linguistic Programming in the Interview Room,” 2001, Dr. Susan H. Adams, co-authored with Vincent Sandoval
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_aug01leb.pdf
“Magic Words to Obtain Confessions,” 1998, Dr. Susan H, Adams, co-authored with Michael Napier (scroll down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_oct98leb.pdf
“Statement Analysis: What Do Words Really Reveal?” 1996 (Begins with Susan Smith)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_statement_analysis_1996.pdf
Link to all of the above on one page
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/ISB_A-K/SP_ADAMS_Susan.htm
FWIW, below is the link to Mark McClish's Statement Analysis site.
http://www.statementanalysis.com/
Below is the link to former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt. IMO, an interesting part here is that in the comments sections, CVZ actually answers the questions.
"Teenager weds Father of missing 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings"
http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/13/2542581-teenager-weds-father-of-missing-5-year-old-haleigh-cummings
This one is already listed above, but this link is easier to deal with.
"911 Homicide Calls and Statement Analysis: Is the Caller the Killer?"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386
This link has some interesting stuff.....
LSI LABORATORY FOR SCIENTIFIC INTERROGATION
"Analysts Probed 911 Caller's Every Word"
http://www.lsiscan.com/id33.htm
"Deception Detection by Scientific Content Analysis "
http://www.lsiscan.com/id37.htm
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Quiche
03-29-2009, 01:36 AM
What an incredible slew of articles to read! Thanks Kant!
kolokolo
03-29-2009, 01:45 AM
“Magic Words to Obtain Confessions,” 1998, Dr. Susan H, Adams, co-authored with Michael Napier (scroll down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespea...a_oct98leb.pdf
I have only read two of those you have listed Kant, above is one of the two. Very interesting ... with the explanation and example given, I think Misty went thru the blaming stage already with pointing the finger at cousin JO, or would the blaming stage with Misty be ... putting blame on lil Haleigh for peeing the bed.
Thank you very much for listing these articles.. I appreciate it!
snookie
03-29-2009, 01:56 AM
Thanks, kant!!
Off to go read now.....
Peliman
03-29-2009, 02:10 AM
Very nice collection kant... If you got one on womens eye code I'd appreciate it. :D
Like did you see her raise her eye at me?
Very nice collection kant... If you got one on womens eye code I'd appreciate it. :D
Like did you see her raise her eye at me?
Peliman, you cheeky monkey... :D
This would be a whole "nother" thread (and I don't even know where to put it) but there are attraction signals... if that's where your cheeky self was going. :D
(The split-second, hard-to-notice eyebrow flash is a universal signal of attraction, FWIW....) You got game, you "Play-ah" you. :blowkiss:
;-)
GaleWinds
03-29-2009, 05:14 PM
Thank you kant, off to read some more!
atherella
03-29-2009, 05:28 PM
Thanks kant for all the articles! Dr. Susan Adams is sure fascinating, isn't she?
Another person that we were discussing yesterday that others might like to check out is Dr. Paul Ekman. For those who aren't familiar with him, Dr. Ekman is a pioneer in the study of emotions and their relation to facial expressions. (He is the psychologist that the show "Lie to Me" is based after).
He has a website:
http://www.paulekman.com/
I'll post more about him in a bit.
Must feed my hungry boy. :)
Emeralgem
03-29-2009, 05:58 PM
Kant, thanks for all the links... I will need to read later on though when I have time to concentrate on the material presented..
“Magic Words to Obtain Confessions,” 1998, Dr. Susan H, Adams, co-authored with Michael Napier (scroll down)
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespea...a_oct98leb.pdf
I have only read two of those you have listed Kant, above is one of the two. Very interesting ... with the explanation and example given, I think Misty went thru the blaming stage already with pointing the finger at cousin JO, or would the blaming stage with Misty be ... putting blame on lil Haleigh for peeing the bed.
Thank you very much for listing these articles.. I appreciate it!
Good point, Kolokolo;
Also, who (or rather, what innocent person) starts their 911 call with an alibi??
Sheesh.
Thanks kant for all the articles! Dr. Susan Adams is sure fascinating, isn't she?
Another person that we were discussing yesterday that others might like to check out is Dr. Paul Ekman. For those who aren't familiar with him, Dr. Ekman is a pioneer in the study of emotions and their relation to facial expressions. (He is the psychologist that the show "Lie to Me" is based after).
He has a website:
http://www.paulekman.com/
I'll post more about him in a bit.
Must feed my hungry boy. :)
Yes, Atherella, Dr. Ekman is fantastic.
He's got quite the list of credentials, and I enjoy his books too.
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Kant, thanks for all the links... I will need to read later on though when I have time to concentrate on the material presented..
I know, right? Emeralgem;
Also, some are a little more tedious than others. But if you only have time to grab one - I'd suggest the one about 911, FWIW. ;-)
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nas212913
03-29-2009, 06:30 PM
Wow. Awesome. Thank you so much!
For those who missed it or want to hear it again, here's the 911 call link; Just scroll down a bit and look under, "Related Links."
911 call in Haleigh Cummings
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-haleigh-update-032809,0,2345710.story
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That 911 link is not the most clear one around, but I cant find the good one.
Does someone have it handy? ....one that is more audible.. or better?
TIA. ;-)
I know I'm an OCD anal retentive nit-picker... (heh heh) but it's just plain odd to me that Misty starts the 911 call with...
(wait for it...... wait for it....) . :D . HERSELF.
MISTY: "...Um... I was... I just woke up.... and our door was wide open.... and we can't find our daughter...."
I know everyone deals with panic differently and there is no one right way to panic. I get that. But there are norms and patterns to what people say and when comparing what was said to the end result of whoever did "it" -- whatever it was, there are patterns that emerge to use a guidlines or tools; (ok, not "proof.")
She clears herself first. (I just woke up)
She adds the door;
See? It's clearly a stranger/slash/ intruder or the door wouldn't be open.... and furthermore, we're gonna leave the door OPEN til the cops get here to prove it. yeah OK.
THEN she mentions Haleigh... as our daughter.
.
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Theonly1
03-29-2009, 06:55 PM
Anyone willing to go the next step after reading these articles and apply their theories to this case? I would LOVE to read it.
On a sort of semi side note - not saying any one eay is the only right way, but if I found the door open at 3 AM and my hubby or significant other or erotic life partner or what-have-you, . :D . were typically getting off work around that time, the first thing I'd do is yell, "Honey are you out there?? Is that you?" thinking he was home.
Did Misty do that? Oh guess there was no time what with her calling Ron just as he was pulling into the driveway and all.
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Indigo
03-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Kant!! You know I love ya for this! :D
Anyone willing to go the next step after reading these articles and apply their theories to this case? I would LOVE to read it.
I'd love to read your theory too, Theonly1;
The more the......
Well, more than two heads are better than one...
:-)
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Kant!! You know I love ya for this! :D
Ah, Indigo... detail-oriented, anal retentive, nit-picking, word dissectors of the world unite!!
heh heh .
:D
.
Also, about the door being wide open.... The whole manner in which the scene was described just didn't ring true for me at all. I think I have a transcript, if I can find it.
Couldn't they simply have TOLD the cops that the door was open?
Or did they think that leaving the door open made it more believable?
I mean if I found the door open at 3 AM and it wasn't my hubby/erotic life partner . ;) . coming home from work, I would be terrified and want to grab Jr. and close/lock the door .....or close/lock the door and then grab Jr.... b/c I wouldn't know if whoever were coming back.
And later I'd be OK with simply TELLING the cops that the door was open; Why wouldn't they believe me? I would assume that they would believe me; and I wouldn't feel the need to "prove" to LE that the door was open by leaving it open - especially if I were there alone with one baby left and one baby missing.
I know many times it's better not to touch things involved in possible crime scenes, but at that moment.. in the moment.... protecting the remaining child and myself woud be my first concern... right at that moment. I mean, that right or wrong, I'd close the dang door. Jus sayin.
PS
Protective full body armor is firmly in place for incoming flying vegetable onslaught. I prefer cucumbers.
(Insert your own joke here)
:D:D:D
.
.
Quiche
03-29-2009, 07:27 PM
Misty's sensory detail is off too, imo. She woke because she needed to use the bathroom/then get a drink-- noticed the light was on, then Saw the door wide open...
Wouldn't a very large temperature change be obvious? 3 am in February-- we're not talking balmy...hink. mo
kikid
03-29-2009, 07:34 PM
Also, about the door being wide open.... The whole manner in which the scene was described just didn't ring true for me at all. I think I have a transcript, if I can find it.
Couldn't they simply have TOLD the cops that the door was open?
Or did they think that leaving the door open made it more believable?
I mean if I found the door open at 3 AM and it wasn't my hubby/erotic life partner . ;) . coming home from work, I would be terrified and want to grab Jr. and close/lock the door .....or close/lock the door and then grab Jr.... b/c I wouldn't know if whoever were coming back.
And later I'd be OK with simply TELLING the cops that the door was open; Why wouldn't they believe me? I would assume that they would believe me; and I wouldn't feel the need to "prove" to LE that the door was open by leaving it open - especially if I were there alone with one baby left and one baby missing.
I know many times it's better not to touch things involved in possible crime scenes, but at that moment.. in the moment.... protecting the remaining child and myself woud be my first concern... right at that moment. I mean, that right or wrong, I'd close the dang door. Jus sayin.
PS
Protective full body armor is firmly in place for incoming flying vegetable onslaught. I prefer cucumbers.
(Insert your own joke here)
:D:D:D
.
.
I'd be terrified someone was in the house!
editing to add.... which is why 911 would have been my #1 priority (while grabbing JR).
yosande
03-29-2009, 07:41 PM
you could always slam the door shut with your foot as to not touch the doorknob, besides, if there are prints, they are likely on the outside, not the inside of the door.
keeping it open was over the top, but then so was the whole 911 call, imo.
Who hangs up on a 911 operator anyway?
I've had to call them a gazillion times for my severely disabled son, and when you're calling out for help, you don't say oh to H!ll with you, you're no good, I'm calling someone else, and hang up! Twice!
Who does That???!!!!!
Anyone willing to go the next step after reading these articles and apply their theories to this case? I would LOVE to read it.
Speaking of theories, Theonly1, I'm hoping that's what everyone will do here.... even if it comes in bits and pieces - share our theories or red flags or hinky meters as far as what's been said in the audios, videos, and transcripts.
I'm looking now for links to different things now so we don't have to search around for them if they're discussed.
I wanted to comment on that first (I beleive it was the first) interview of Ron; It was the one where Teresa was standing there with him and he dropped to the ground.
But I need to find the clip first.
If anyone has these clip handy will you re-post them? I know they are scattered all around and we've probably seen them, but sometimes it's good to hear them again if something comes up about it inn particular.
Hey, you guys, I'm looking for these clips if you have them handy: These and you can add any others that you think are relevant)
1.) The Ron video where he drops to the ground
2.) The Misty video where she rambles on about the washing of the blankets
3.) An early, one of the first few, Greta show interviews of Misty and Ron where they're sitting in chairs side by side outside (and she gets 4 inches and 4 feet confused.)
4.) The TODAY SHOW interview of the newlyweds
5.) An early appearance of Crystal on Nancy (stripperpole!) Grace
you could always slam the door shut with your foot as to not touch the doorknob, besides, if there are prints, they are likely on the outside, not the inside of the door.
keeping it open was over the top, but then so was the whole 911 call, imo.
Who hangs up on a 911 operator anyway?
I've had to call them a gazillion times for my severely disabled son, and when you're calling out for help, you don't say oh to H!ll with you, you're no good, I'm calling someone else, and hang up! Twice!
Who does That???!!!!!
I know, right?
The hanging up on 911 (among other things) totally slayed me.
Wow.Just.Wow.
.
Indigo
03-29-2009, 08:09 PM
Also, about the door being wide open.... The whole manner in which the scene was described just didn't ring true for me at all. I think I have a transcript, if I can find it.
Couldn't they simply have TOLD the cops that the door was open?
Or did they think that leaving the door open made it more believable?
I mean if I found the door open at 3 AM and it wasn't my hubby/erotic life partner . ;) . coming home from work, I would be terrified and want to grab Jr. and close/lock the door .....or close/lock the door and then grab Jr.... b/c I wouldn't know if whoever were coming back.
And later I'd be OK with simply TELLING the cops that the door was open; Why wouldn't they believe me? I would assume that they would believe me; and I wouldn't feel the need to "prove" to LE that the door was open by leaving it open - especially if I were there alone with one baby left and one baby missing.
I know many times it's better not to touch things involved in possible crime scenes, but at that moment.. in the moment.... protecting the remaining child and myself woud be my first concern... right at that moment. I mean, that right or wrong, I'd close the dang door. Jus sayin.
PS
Protective full body armor is firmly in place for incoming flying vegetable onslaught. I prefer cucumbers.
(Insert your own joke here)
:D:D:D
.
.
Ah, but they couldn't just leave the door open--it needed to be "bricked" to stay open. Misty was vague about the cinderblock/brick; Ron unknowingly added more detail:
GRACE: Do you know where the cinderblock came from that was propping the door open?
CUMMINGS: Don`t have a clue. I don`t mess with none of that, so I don`tknow. I very rarely am in the back yard at all unless I`m washing mycar. So it could have came from around my shed. I`m renting. I don`t
know if the previous renters had it or what, but I`ve never seen it, I
don`t believe.
GRACE: So to your knowledge, you`ve never seen it.
CUMMINGS: Not that I believe. I mean, I may be mistaken and have seen it before, but I know it wasn`t where it`s at now.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/11/ng.01.html
Ron said he has no clue, then went on to narrow it down considerably.
I'd be terrified someone was in the house!
editing to add.... which is why 911 would have been my #1 priority (while grabbing JR).
Yeah, that too, Kikid;
I would grab the remaining kid, grab the phone, grab the gun, go into the master bedroom, lock that door, then into the bathroom, lock that door, and call 911 immediately from the locked bathroom... with the gun aimed at the door.....til they got there..... but that's me.
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Ah, but they couldn't just leave the door open--it needed to be "bricked" to stay open. Misty was vague about the cinderblock/brick; Ron unknowingly added more detail:
GRACE: Do you know where the cinderblock came from that was propping the door open?
CUMMINGS: Don`t have a clue. I don`t mess with none of that, so I don`tknow. I very rarely am in the back yard at all unless I`m washing mycar. So it could have came from around my shed. I`m renting. I don`t
know if the previous renters had it or what, but I`ve never seen it, I
don`t believe.
GRACE: So to your knowledge, you`ve never seen it.
CUMMINGS: Not that I believe. I mean, I may be mistaken and have seen it before, but I know it wasn`t where it`s at now.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/11/ng.01.html
Ron said he has no clue, then went on to narrow it down considerably.
That was a confusing point for me, Indigo;
The inside door was shown on NG as being on a slow auto -closer. SO what was holdiong it open?
And the screen door was the one "bricked" right?
And from photos (I will try to find those) the screen door was held open only a few inches by the cinderblock.
She didn't mention the INSIDE door on the call or was that the one "wide" open? It'd have to be, right? Or how else could she see that the ecreen door was "bricked" unless the inner door were already open?
SeriouslySearching
03-29-2009, 08:26 PM
~snipped~
Who hangs up on a 911 operator anyway?
I've had to call them a gazillion times for my severely disabled son, and when you're calling out for help, you don't say oh to H!ll with you, you're no good, I'm calling someone else, and hang up! Twice!
Who does That???!!!!!ME! I have hung up on 911! I didn't have time to sit and chat with a woman bleeding in my kitchen who required immediate medical attention until help arrived.
There may have been another time I hung up on them, too. Action requires people to be off the phone and to me...it is a waste of time to sit and answer questions. After I call for a request of fire, police, ambulance...tell them the situation, the location, and such...no need to keep them on the line unless they can help me.
ME! I have hung up on 911! I didn't have time to sit and chat with a woman bleeding in my kitchen who required immediate medical attention until help arrived.
I can understand your doing that in your situation, SeriouslySearching ; If you knew what to do for a bleeding person, it makes total sense to me for you to abandon the call and tend immedaitely to the bleeder as best you can til further help arrived.
This wasn't the case with Ron though.
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Quiche
03-29-2009, 08:41 PM
ME! I have hung up on 911! I didn't have time to sit and chat with a woman bleeding in my kitchen who required immediate medical attention until help arrived.
There may have been another time I hung up on them, too. Action requires people to be off the phone and to me...it is a waste of time to sit and answer questions. After I call for a request of fire, police, ambulance...tell them the situation, the location, and such...no need to keep them on the line unless they can help me.
Huh? There was no bleeding or injured person in this instance-- only a need to get pertinent information about what was unfolding at that very moment. Misty was unclear at best, and full of discrepancies that I, for one, am glad were recorded! It's protocol for very good reasons imo.
Not to mention the man in the background promising he was going to kill someone. Good grief.
Skully
03-29-2009, 08:45 PM
I have posted on the theory thread that I thought that Haleigh may have gotten into something in the kitchen that was drugged or ate pills and died as a result of it. I don't believe Misty was home and when she did come home, she found Haleigh dead, she may have had someone with her and they called Ron. The man Jr saw may have been carrying her out to the van to get rid of the body. It was too late so the staging began because they would both be liable and Ron didn't want to lose JR to CS. I believe that his tantrum on the phone and blaming Misty was because he felt it was her fault and he was already grieving the loss of his daughter. I know that doesn't sit well with others that feel CS had motive, but back child support doesn't feel like a reason to kill your child, and why leave the other one? I really believe it was an accidental overdose, kids get up and get into things when they are hungry and no one is home to stop them. They do it while parents are home. My cousin drank black shoe polish. He was 2, crawled into the kitchen, opened the cabinet door and drank it before my Aunt saw him. It was before mothers child proofed the cabinets. JMO
SeriouslySearching
03-29-2009, 08:45 PM
I would not have stayed on the call with them in that situation either. I would have been looking for Haleigh and calling neighbors, family, others to come help, too. I guess it is why I don't consider it a big deal. I agree that dispatch wasn't going to be immediate help especially since it would take much longer for a deputy to arrive in a country type setting. The need to start looking was immediate and my response would not have been much different. I can see the urgency and desire to get them off the phone.
Quiche
03-29-2009, 08:58 PM
I would not have stayed on the call with them in that situation either. I would have been looking for Haleigh and calling neighbors, family, others to come help, too. I guess it is why I don't consider it a big deal. I agree that dispatch wasn't going to be immediate help especially since it would take much longer for a deputy to arrive in a country type setting. The need to start looking was immediate and my response would not have been much different. I can see the urgency and desire to get them off the phone.
Are we to assume a corded telephone in this situation? And they both had a phone if we are to believe their story...The whole thing stinks to high heaven imo.
Below is a link to the police report. Scroll down to "Additional Info" and see the 3rd paragraph where Misty tells the officer that:
....she got up to get a drink
...noticed Haleigh was gone,
...went to look for Haleigh and then noticed the door was open.
How many versions are there now?
Police Report Link
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf
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SeriouslySearching
03-29-2009, 09:06 PM
Are we to assume a corded telephone in this situation? And they both had a phone if we are to believe their story...The whole thing stinks to high heaven imo.No. I think they were both on cell phones, imo. Wouldn't the question from dispatch indicate it was not a landline as the address would automatically come up there? 911 asked for the "numerical" which was ridiculous, too. Most dispatchers would ask for the address not the "numerical". As a matter of fact, I have never heard 911not simply ask for the address.
You can't call for additional help if you are tied up in a call to 911 which is evidently what they did do by calling TN and others.
I would not have stayed on the call with them in that situation either. I would have been looking for Haleigh and calling neighbors, family, others to come help, too. I guess it is why I don't consider it a big deal.
I agree that dispatch wasn't going to be immediate help especially since it would take much longer for a deputy to arrive in a country type setting.
The need to start looking was immediate and my response would not have been much different.
I can see the urgency and desire to get them off the phone.
{bolding mine) I agree, Seriously Searching, that there is urgency and panic in a missing child situation.
However, I don't see the need for Ron cursing the 911 operator and hanging up on them. His termininating the call could be easily accomplished by a simply "thanks; bye" or just "good bye" click - without the cursing name-calling and hanging up in someone's face.
Panic to me does equal name-calling and rudeness to someone trying to help.
MOO
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passionflower
03-29-2009, 09:24 PM
I know I'm an OCD anal retentive nit-picker... (heh heh) but it's just plain odd to me that Misty starts the 911 call with...
(wait for it...... wait for it....) . :D . HERSELF.
MISTY: "...Um... I was... I just woke up.... and our door was wide open.... and we can't find our daughter...."
I know everyone deals with panic differently and there is no one right way to panic. I get that. But there are norms and patterns to what people say and when comparing what was said to the end result of whoever did "it" -- whatever it was, there are patterns that emerge to use a guidlines or tools; (ok, not "proof.")
She clears herself first. (I just woke up)
She adds the door;
See? It's clearly a stranger/slash/ intruder or the door wouldn't be open.... and furthermore, we're gonna leave the door OPEN til the cops get here to prove it. yeah OK.
THEN she mentions Haleigh... as our daughter.
.
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Exactly, sounds like she was told to make the call........
I would think a person would say 'Please help Haleigh is gone, she's missing and we need help!'......but she tells everything first way before she mentions Haleigh is gone!
Kant thankyou for the links to read!
It sure helps to study these morons that do crimes!
Indigo
03-29-2009, 09:31 PM
I would not have stayed on the call with them in that situation either. I would have been looking for Haleigh and calling neighbors, family, others to come help, too. I guess it is why I don't consider it a big deal. I agree that dispatch wasn't going to be immediate help especially since it would take much longer for a deputy to arrive in a country type setting. The need to start looking was immediate and my response would not have been much different. I can see the urgency and desire to get them off the phone.
Ron could easily have gone outside, alerted the neighbors and looked for Haleigh while Misty was on the phone with the dispatcher. He had his own phone. Why was he hanging around doing nothing but shouting in the background? Why the hang up? It makes no sense.
Quiche
03-29-2009, 09:31 PM
No. I think they were both on cell phones, imo. Wouldn't the question from dispatch indicate it was not a landline as the address would automatically come up there? 911 asked for the "numerical" which was ridiculous, too. Most dispatchers would ask for the address not the "numerical". As a matter of fact, I have never heard 911not simply ask for the address.
You can't call for additional help if you are tied up in a call to 911 which is evidently what they did do by calling TN and others.
Ron had his phone to call for additional help, he wasn't all tangled up in that 911 call, on the contrary, he made Misty do that! Maybe he's not that good of an actor, imo.
Additionally, it seems to me if you don't want to be on the phone, you make one call and tell Them to contact everyone. Again, jmo
But since we're on the analysis thread, I encourage you to peruse the articles listed...they are wonderfully insightful and applicable to this case.
scratchthatitch
03-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Hello Kant,
Thanks for all the information. I found this today, but can't hear any sound myself. Thought I would throw it out there if you hadn't already seen it.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/radio_calls_haleigh_cummings_021909
yosande
03-29-2009, 09:39 PM
I would not have stayed on the call with them in that situation either. I would have been looking for Haleigh and calling neighbors, family, others to come help, too. I guess it is why I don't consider it a big deal. I agree that dispatch wasn't going to be immediate help especially since it would take much longer for a deputy to arrive in a country type setting. The need to start looking was immediate and my response would not have been much different. I can see the urgency and desire to get them off the phone.
He didn't have to stay in the house yelling about his dumb b^tch gf. He could have been out yelling her name, waking the neighbors, even blocking the only road in and out of the area. Did they only have one phone? Why not just keep Misty talking to 911, while he did something else, or called someone else? And Why did he have her call them, Haleigh is his daughter.
Therefore, having Misty do the calling and talking, and hanging up when he is asked to answer questions says something. I don't know what, but it says something.
RC avoids, and denies, personality, or conscience?
According to the article about guilty and innocent callers, Misty did everything a guilty caller did.
RC is harder to tell, he did things that the innocent and the guilty callers did.
The alibi being the most obvious. The freaking out, and demanding help quickly goes toward innocent, as examples.
Giving 911 as much info as possible for an amber alert was important, and the dispatcher told them why she was asking the questions. Hanging up on them, and in the manner in which it was done was inappropiate, and unnecessary. If someone took her, as the father is so convinced happened within seconds of arriving, then blocking the road would have been what I would have been doing, that and trying to remember what every single car looked like that passed me on the way home. He is completely unhelpful, and even when LE arrives he continues to be too emotional to answer questions, and yet he seems well able to control himself when needed, ie GR interview.
Indigo
03-29-2009, 09:41 PM
Below is a link to the police report. Scroll down to "Additional Info" and see the 3rd paragraph where Misty tells the officer that:
....she got up to get a drink
...noticed Haleigh was gone,
...went to look for Haleigh and then noticed the door was open.
How many versions are there now?
Police Report Link
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf
.
Newest version:
...noticed the back door was open
...went back to her bedroom to get her cell phone to call Ron
...noticed Haleigh was missing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNe0zHiLtgo
passionflower
03-29-2009, 09:41 PM
Kant.
This site you gave us is wonderful!
makes me wonder allot............going back to stud Misty's 911 call again. http://www.lsiscan.com/id33.htm
awakewriter
03-29-2009, 09:43 PM
This one is already listed above, but this link is easier to deal with.
"911 Homicide Calls and Statement Analysis: Is the Caller the Killer?"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386
This is interesting for a lot of the cases on these forums. THANK YOU!
passionflower
03-29-2009, 09:46 PM
He didn't have to stay in the house yelling about his dumb b^tch gf. He could have been out yelling her name, waking the neighbors, even blocking the only road in and out of the area. Did they only have one phone? Why not just keep Misty talking to 911, while he did something else, or called someone else? And Why did he have her call them, Haleigh is his daughter. Therefore, having Misty do the calling and talking, and hanging up when he is asked to answer questions says something. I don't know what, but it says something.
RC avoids, and denies, personality, or conscience?
According to the article about guilty and innocent callers, Misty did everything a guilty caller did.RC is harder to tell, he did things that the innocent and the guilty callers did.
The alibi being the most obvious. The freaking out, and demanding help quickly goes toward innocent, as examples.
thanks bolded by me..........ditto from what I understand also
Quiche
03-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?
The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?
passionflower
03-29-2009, 09:53 PM
mods, it would be nice if the links that Kant gave us could be a sticky for ALL cases, very helpful!
Quiche
03-29-2009, 09:56 PM
Below is a link to the police report. Scroll down to "Additional Info" and see the 3rd paragraph where Misty tells the officer that:
....she got up to get a drink
...noticed Haleigh was gone,
...went to look for Haleigh and then noticed the door was open.
How many versions are there now?
Police Report Link
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf
.
The police report says Misty stated that she woke just BEFORE three! So If we are to believe she "saw" three, are we pushed back now to 2:53 a.m.?! That's a solid half hour before the 911 call. Stage-o-rama imo
Indigo
03-29-2009, 10:19 PM
The police report says Misty stated that she woke just BEFORE three! So If we are to believe she "saw" three, are we pushed back now to 2:53 a.m.?! That's a solid half hour before the 911 call. Stage-o-rama imo
According to the latest account, Misty called Ron as soon as she noticed that the back door was open and Ron was just pulling up in the driveway.
Now both of them have to explain why they waited so long to call 911.
passionflower
03-29-2009, 10:28 PM
http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/02/16/2441536-update-teenage-caretaker-of-missing-5-year-old-florida-girl-says-i-didnt-do-it
Kant thanks for Clint Van Zandt's site also.........great article of what he thinks, going back to read his others
The police report says Misty stated that she woke just BEFORE three! So If we are to believe she "saw" three, are we pushed back now to 2:53 a.m.?! That's a solid half hour before the 911 call. Stage-o-rama imo
Quiche, LOL.... stage-o-rama.. :D:D:D
If I don't laugh sometimes, I'd be crying all the time.
.
http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/02/16/2441536-update-teenage-caretaker-of-missing-5-year-old-florida-girl-says-i-didnt-do-it
Kant thanks for Clint Van Zandt's site also.........great article of what he thinks, going back to read his others
Hey, Passionflower, did you take a look at the comments section ? OMG.....
As I mentioned, Clint (aka CVZ) answers many questions or responds in general to the comments.
I wanted to post some of that b/c of the interesting nature of CVZ's answers, but the questions were so.... what's the word.... inflammatory, (?).... or, let's just say, less than complimentary to the Cummings that I was ah-skeered to post them b/c I'm not wearing my protective armor at the moment - heh heh. .:D
.
Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?
The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?
(bolding mine) Yes, Quiche, I noticed that too.
Also, in one of those articles, (I forget which one) it says that the "perp" rarely likes to be the one to make the 911 call; They generally prefer to snag someone else to do it or at least get someone else to initiate it and get the ball rolling.
There is an even weirder aspect here too IMO, given that Ron is the "adult," legally speaking and he is the bio parent. It is his home. Well, you get my drift.
So..imo...gotta throw ya a big fat...
HINK!...
MOO
.
scandi
03-29-2009, 11:28 PM
http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/02/16/2441536-update-teenage-caretaker-of-missing-5-year-old-florida-girl-says-i-didnt-do-it
Kant thanks for Clint Van Zandt's site also.........great article of what he thinks, going back to read his others
Hi Passionflower, I really admire him too. He always made such sense when I'd see him on Greta, no matter what the case was. The other one I admire so much is Pat Brown, and she did a NG show very early on in the case and what she said seems to be panning out. We'll see.
Kant, Thanks for this thread and all the articles. Fascinatin', and I see we're already learning new things in profiling. xox
Kant. This site you gave us is wonderful!
makes me wonder allot............going back to stud Misty's 911 call again. http://www.lsiscan.com/id33.htm
Yeah, Passionflower, Misty and Ron during their 911 call kind of give me the willies.
MOO
.
kikid
03-29-2009, 11:36 PM
Here is another thing that has hung me up since the very beginning of this case: RC says he see's Misty standing at the front door as he pulls up. Isn't there a screened in porch? Did he mean she was standing at that door, the door to the screened in porch? If so... why would she leave a sleeping boy clear inside in the bedroom and the back door wide open with one child already missing.... but she's standing outside on the FRONT porch?? Hello???? Who would do that and not be terrified someone would come back in for him too???
Maybe because MCC knows nobody's coming in the back door to take JR, because she's the one who "Bricked" it??? just saying!
kikid
03-29-2009, 11:45 PM
Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?
The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?
yes there is that, especially since Ron said when he got home she came running out saying "YOUR daughter is missing!" Not Haliegh or OUR daughter.
Also, she begins the 911 call with "Hi"...... hinkkkky
Hi Passionflower, I really admire him too. He always made such sense when I'd see him on Greta, no matter what the case was. The other one I admire so much is Pat Brown, and she did a NG show very early on in the case and what she said seems to be panning out. We'll see.
Kant, Thanks for this thread and all the articles. Fascinatin', and I see we're already learning new things in profiling. xox
(bolding mine) I flove Pat brown, Scandi.
Below is an excerpt about the Cummings case from pat Brown's blogspot.
Excerpt from Pat Brown's Blogspot
"You know about the sad case of the little missing girl, Haleigh Cummings who has been missing for three weeks now. The news stories about this case are already a garish circus.
Geraldo Rivera is doing his usual "irreverent" style of aggressive and tacky interviewing (though I did appreciate that he got Haleigh's father, Ronald Cummings, to look straight into the camera and lie like a dog that didn't EVER do drugs (meaning that the police must have falsely arrested him some ten times for cocaine, meth, marijuana, heroin, GHB, etc.
The girl's father, Ronald Cummings, spouts off obscenities and acts out in weird ways. Add to this a whole cast of squirrelly characters who should be on Jerry Springer - the girlfriend, Misty Croslin, who can't keep her story straight, Haleigh's mother's overly emotional fiance, and the creepy criminal cousin Missy claims is a pedophile. What should be serious news topic becomes a bad reality television show with daily outrageous episodes."
Link to Pat Brown Profiling Blogspot
http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/ (http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/)
"Geraldo Confronts Missing Girl's Dad"
(Video clip and artilce)
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/Geraldo_Confronts_Dad022309
TRANSCRIPTS: ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL with Guest: PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER
Aired March 10, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/10/ijvm.01.html
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a heart-wrenching scene as Haleigh Cummings` family forced to tear down their camp site and move out, but to where?
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: Haleigh, I love you. Your daddy loves you. Please just bring her home.
RON CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I love you very much. We will find you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus Misty Croslin shows off her engagement ring as new details pour in about her upcoming marriage to the missing girl`s father.
And the family of abducted teen Tiffany Sessions, who vanished 20 years ago on the same date as Haleigh, never to reappear, arrives in Satsuma to comfort Haleigh`s relatives.
Then, 70 miles away, stunning news in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Where is Casey Anthony getting the money to pay for her dream team of eight lawyers and famous experts? Prosecutors demanding to know if there`s a secret source for the big bucks. Will Jose Baez spill the answers?
Then shock as reports say Rihanna is recording a duet with Chris Brown, even though he`s facing two felonies for allegedly assaulting her. As the case gets over to focus in on domestic violence, I`ll tell you why their punch drunk love is sending all of the wrong messages.
ISSUES starts now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a community tries not to crumble in the face of a devastating mystery. It was one month ago that a desperate and frantic 911 call alerted authorities that little Haleigh Cummings had disappeared from her home without a trace.
Today, a heart wrenching news conference in Satsuma, Florida, marking the terrible one-month anniversary. Standing before a small army of cops, Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, broke down.
SHEFFIELD: I just want to say thank you for everybody that`s doing everything. Haleigh, if you`re out there, Mommy loves you and your daddy loves you and we miss you. We`ll be right here. Please -- please, whoever has her, bring her home. Please. We need her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her ex, Haleigh`s dad, Ron Cummings, who has just gotten engaged, also made another emotional plea.
CUMMINGS: Please, if you have my daughter, bring her home, please. All I want is Haleigh. That`s all I want. I want nothing else, but Haleigh, that`s it. Please, if you have her, bring her home. Baby, if you`re watching, you know you`ll always be daddy`s little girl. I love you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unfortunately, despite a massive investigation, cops stood before the media today and seemed to acknowledge they have absolutely no idea, not a clue, what happened to this precious 5-year-old.
SHERIFF JEFF HARDY, PUTNAM COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: I ask this community to please have patience and to bear with us. And we`re looking for that one lead and that one tip that it`s going to take to bring Haleigh home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So today the Justice Coalition, in a desperate bid to get answers let would-be tipsters know that the reward has been upped to $35,000 for information that will hopefully solve this mysterious case.
In the middle of all of this, the Cummings family is being evicted from their camp site. They are tearing down their tents as we speak. Where will this tormented family go to wait for news?
We will be taking your calls on all of this tonight, but first, to my expert panel: Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney; Drew Findling, Atlanta-based criminal defense attorney; Pat Brown, criminal profiler, joining us by phone; and Jennifer Bauer from CNN affiliate WJXT.
Jennifer, what is the very latest?
JENNIFER BAUER, WJXT: Well, I think the big news today coming out of Putnam County, Jane, is that the reward has been upped to $35,000. Investigators are telling us they hope the additional money, of course, will bring in new tips, new leads, talking with investigators today.
They say, you know, people all the way from San Diego, California, to Cape May, New Jersey, are really taking an interest in this case. And the FBI field agent who was here at today`s news conference said the FBI is going out of state, handling these calls, these sightings, these tips. The number still remains at 2,400 and the investigators here still remain optimistic.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Pat Brown, criminal profiler, because what I have noticed, and it`s certainly pretty obvious, is that the law enforcement teams operating on this case are being very, very tight- lipped. They`re not saying anything. They`re not saying whether the family passed the polygraph.
Contrast that to the Casey Anthony, case where there were leaks left and right. Do you think this strategy is working in the Haleigh case? It does not appear to be working. Perhaps they should hold a news conference and tell us everything they know, Pat.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER:
Well, that is the concept, Jane. May have a strategy that we just don`t know at this point. Lots of information that they do believe will eventually bring them in something.
And one of the things that`s very interesting about this case, if you compare it to the Caylee Anthony case, is there are always two options in any child abduction or supposed child abduction: that indeed, a stranger did take the child or the family was involved.
And in Caylee`s case there was a lot of, you know, obviously right away the behavior of Casey Anthony was suspect, so everything kind of focused there, but you will notice that law enforcement still looked around for her. They still didn`t just go with that. They kept their options open.
And I think they`re doing the same thing in this case. There are some concerns with the family, but they`re looking elsewhere.
VELEZ-MITCHELL:
Here`s the problem, Pat. If they don`t say, OK, for example, this is just one example. The family took their polygraph and passed them. Now, the family said, "We passed them," but the authorities won`t confirm that. So people are sort of, well, we don`t know. They`re not letting their imaginations open up to consider other possibilities. And I think that that is a problem. Do you see what I`m saying?
PAT BROWN:
Well, I see what you`re saying, Jane, but I actually don`t think that`s true, because if you take a look at the blogging out there in the blog world, people out there are very, very suspicious of both Misty and Ronald, especially in light of the recent engagement, something that you wouldn`t imagine would happen when you`re focused just on finding this child. It doesn`t make sense that suddenly, you thought, "Oh, let`s think about ourselves and let`s get married and get an engagement ring." Very peculiar behavior.
Actually, a lot of people are looking at that. But I think that`s already out there. So I don`t know quite what the law enforcement are thinking, but I think that they`ve got their plans.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think that you and I are essentially agreeing. I`m saying that assuming that this family is not involved, we should clear them at this point, because that would open the focus and allow people to think of other possibilities and look elsewhere.
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I have to say I disagree. Having worked on these cases before, remember that abductors and people of that mindset are often boasters. And if they know -- if they know that that suspicion is still there, then they may possibly boast about what they did. And if they boast and it`s somebody that will respond to $35,000.
So I think there`s a little bit of a strategy in not letting us know. And I think we should probably give credit to law enforcement for keeping that to themselves. And that`s based on years and years of experience.
And I promise you they`re consulting with Quantico on every move they make. If they`re not, they`re truly remiss.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, sure. FBI was there today. I know they`re doing a great job. They`re working very, very hard. We`re just trying to offer alternative possibilities.
Now, Pat Brown, you mentioned the whole idea of the engagement. Haleigh`s cad, Ron Cummings, proposed to 17-year-old Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh Cummings before she disappeared on Sunday. The couple has come under scrutiny, as Pat mentioned, over that decision. Let`s listen to what Misty and her mom, Lisa Croslin, had to say about just that.
MISTY CROSLIN, FIANCE OF RON CUMMINGS: We`ve been planning this for a while, actually.
LISA CROSLIN, MOTHER OF MISTY: It`s just -- they`ve been getting for me to do it for, like, five months. And I said you all need to wait until you`re 18 and everybody`s trashing them. And I`m going to go ahead and let them do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Additionally, Misty maintains that the engagement is what little Haleigh would have wanted. Listen.
M. CROSLIN: Everybody might take this marriage thing the wrong way, but it`s not. It`s still focused -- everything is still focused on Haleigh. This is what Haleigh wanted. She`s always talked about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty showed off her engagement ring today, and we`re going to show you that in a second. Still, some are raising eyebrows, wondering why Ron would, at this particular juncture, marry Misty when his daughter disappeared on Misty`s watch and is still missing, and we still have no idea what happened to her.
Jennifer Bauer, what`s the reaction in the community?
BAUER: I think people at first were pretty shocked. I spoke with Teresa Neves today, who is Haleigh`s paternal grandmother. And she told me they`re doing it because it makes them happy. This is what Haleigh would have wanted. She says this is what Ron Jr., Haleigh`s brother, wants. She says the children talked about it. Ron Jr. still talks about it today.
And she said when Haleigh comes home she`s going to be a flower girl at the wedding. They`re going to have a reception once Haleigh comes home. Of course, the wedding itself possibly taking place at the courthouse, we`re hearing, maybe sometime this week.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jennifer -- Rebecca Rose Woodland, another stress on this Cummings family is that they have to pack up their campground. Why do you think the county is giving them a hard time on this rule that you can`t have a campground at an unofficial camp site for more than 14 days? I mean, to me that sounds like going after people who are not putting their dogs on leashes when there`s a murderer on the loose.
REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I guess the county is just trying to do everything by the book. I think they think there`s some conflict. They want to keep everything really quiet here.
As you were saying before, Jane, they really are keeping this very tightlipped, and maybe they`re afraid something in that camp site, something or another there will be some sort of clue that will just go by the wayside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wait a second. You`re saying this is a strategy.
WOODLAND: I`m thinking so because why would you make these poor people have to remove their campsite? All they want to do is find this poor little girl. So maybe it`s a strategy, and they`re trying to keep everything really tight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll explore that more. Everyone, sit tight. We have lots of ground to cover in this case.
Do you think it was unfair to force the Cummings family to move their camp? Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Let me know your thoughts on this entire case.
And 70 miles away, in the Caylee Anthony case, prosecutors demand to know where Casey is getting all of the money for her dream team of eight attorneys. I will have an update.
But first an emotional news conference with the Cummings family today, made more so because they were forced to move from the spot they have called home for weeks.
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: We felt closer to the investigation here. Nobody thought we would be here this long.
SHEFFIELD: Just bring her home. Please. We need her. We need her. Just bring her back.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A mother`s desperate plea for her baby girl. Heartbreaking.
We are back with my panel and taking your calls, as we try to figure out why this is such a complete mystery. But first, I want to introduce a very special guest.
Patrick Sessions knows all too well the horror Haleigh`s parents are going through. Twenty years ago Patrick lived their nightmare when his beautiful 20-year-old daughter, Tiffany Sessions, disappeared after going on a jog. She has never been seen since. Period.
In a heart-wrenching coincidence, Tiffany disappeared on the same date as Haleigh. Tiffany`s death was so upset over Haleigh`s disappearance, he drove to Satsuma to visit with the Cummings family.
Patrick, thank you so much for joining us.
PATRICK SESSIONS, DAUGHTER WENT MISSING: You`re welcome. Glad to be here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure it brings up some very painful feelings. Why did you feel the need to reach out to the Cummings? And were you able to comfort them?
SESSIONS: Well, you know, we try to work with other families that, unfortunately, are in the same position we were, and I just felt like this was the time.
We normally get involved earlier, but they had great television coverage, and they had good law enforcement activity. So I didn`t think they really needed us at that point. But I don`t know whether you`ve lost anybody, but people who any through what we`ve anyone through and lost loved ones, you kind of hit a wall at about 30 days. And I just felt like they were hitting that wall. I know I hit it, and I thought it might be a good time to try to show some support.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`re going to go to so many people lining up to give their thoughts on this case, but I want to ask you a follow-up on your case.
How is it possible in this day and age of forensics and all sorts of high technology that a human being can simply disappear without a trace and it ends up in a cold case file and police don`t have a clue? Does that boggle your mind?
SESSION: Well, it does. I never expected to be to be sitting here 20 years later. But I said before, you don`t have to be a brain surgeon to get away with murder. If you get lucky enough to commit the crime and hide the body and nobody sees it, unless there`s some good evidence there`s nothing to go on.
And unfortunately in Tiffany`s case, there was absolutely no evidence. No witnesses, no forensic evidence, nothing. So it`s a classic whodunit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And my heart goes out to you. I can`t imagine what it`s been like to live with that, not knowing for 20 years.
Now, again, the phone lines lighting up. And let`s go to some of our callers with questions and thoughts.
Ralph from California, your question or thought, sir.
CALLER: Yes, I have a question. Have the police investigated into Misty`s ex-disgruntled boyfriend?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jennifer, what do you know?
BAUER: I don`t know anything about her ex-disgruntled boyfriend. I haven`t heard anything from investigators on them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But does she have an ex? I mean, she`s only, what? Seventeen? She`s pretty young.
BAUER: Yes. All I know, I mean, she`s 17. I know she met Ron when she was 14. I know that they`ve been dating for about the last six months. That`s the only information I know about her past.
But I know her family does live in this same neighborhood where Ronald has his mobile home where he lives with Haleigh and Ron Jr., but beyond that I don`t have any information about any ex-boyfriend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Kitty in Canada. Your question or thought?
CALLER: I love your show. Who was the last person to see Haleigh other than the dad and the girlfriend?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good question. We`re going to take it back to Jennifer Bauer on that.
BAUER: The grandmother. Great-grandmother, Annette Sykes. She is Ronald`s grandmother, Teresa Neves` mother. She came by the house that night about 7 p.m. She had to drop off some clothing, and I think she did some laundry, helped the family out. She was dropping that off.
She says the kids were eating dinner, and Misty had just made them dinner. And that was the last time she saw Haleigh. And then, of course, as you know, Misty Croslin remembers seeing Haleigh at around 10 p.m.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Donna in Florida, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. Love your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: I was just wondering how could the father of Haleigh afford to buy a diamond ring for Misty, and you know, Haleigh was sleeping on a mattress on the floor? It just boggles my mind that he would do something, you know, like that. I mean, buy a bed for the baby. I just don`t understand that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go back to Patrick Sessions, because, again, I always say we have no idea what it`s like to walk in the shoes of somebody who has lost a child. And there has been a lot of questions and eyebrows raised over the timing, Patrick, why little missing Haleigh`s father would decide to get engaged right now to the very woman who was there the last time that anybody saw little Haleigh and sort of -- if the child disappeared on her watch. And then you just heard that question.
Could you give us any insight into why they may need to come together at this juncture?
SESSIONS: Well, the first thing, and I`m not sure it`s fact, but I`d understand that the ring was actually the grandmother`s ring, that she gave that to them. If that`s true, that explains some of it.
I think what explains more of it is you all are trying to understand what`s going on in the head of someone who`s lost a child. And I don`t think it`s necessarily the greatest idea either. But I don`t think we should be standing here trying to judge people that are just trying to get through day by day. And I`m sure I did some pretty stupid things during the time -- those first days.
And as I said, they`re hitting a point now where it`s awful hard to divide reality. You can talk about it all you want, but after 30 days, you realize you`ve got a real problem. And the odds are getting worse every day of a happy ending.
So I don`t know what drove it, but I suspect what drove it is just a moment of happiness in an absolutely terrible situation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Drew, thoughts on this, because there are some people who have been very harsh. We only have a couple of seconds.
FINDLING: Well, again, I`m going to fall back on my position that I think that somebody in Ron`s position really needs counsel. He needs an attorney, even if he`s not a suspect, to council him through this investigation through this stage.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s an excellent suggestion and, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there. I want to thank Patrick Sessions and my excellent panel. Please come back soon. "
OMG your right!! They had to prop it open with the cinderblock because they have to use the whole door thing as the "break in entry" and they know the door doe not stay open and that would have messed up their whole "they broke in through the door theory" because the cops would have said "well didnt you hear the door slam shut?" am I making sense? I just got lost LOL :) :) :}
SeriouslySearching
03-30-2009, 12:08 AM
Uhm...I don't think we are allowed to put the whole transcripts on here. Just snippets of a certain percentage with a link.
Quiche
03-30-2009, 12:10 AM
(bolding mine) I flove Pat brown, Scandi.
Below is an excerpt about the Cummings case from pat Brown's blogspot.
Excerpt from Pat Brown's Blogspot
"You know about the sad case of the little missing girl, Haleigh Cummings who has been missing for three weeks now. The news stories about this case are already a garish circus.
Geraldo Rivera is doing his usual "irreverent" style of aggressive and tacky interviewing (though I did appreciate that he got Haleigh's father, Ronald Cummings, to look straight into the camera and lie like a dog that didn't EVER do drugs (meaning that the police must have falsely arrested him some ten times for cocaine, meth, marijuana, heroin, GHB, etc.
The girl's father, Ronald Cummings, spouts off obscenities and acts out in weird ways. Add to this a whole cast of squirrelly characters who should be on Jerry Springer - the girlfriend, Misty Croslin, who can't keep her story straight, Haleigh's mother's overly emotional fiance, and the creepy criminal cousin Missy claims is a pedophile. What should be serious news topic becomes a bad reality television show with daily outrageous episodes."
Link to Pat Brown Profiling Blogspot
http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/ (http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/)
"Geraldo Confronts Missing Girl's Dad"
(Video clip and artilce)
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/Geraldo_Confronts_Dad022309
Great link to another apt analysis! Stupider and Stupider...IQ of a Dorito! Thanks, lmao Levity, ahhhh
This audio is a little clearer than the other one I posted above.
911 Call
http://www.zimbio.com/Haleigh+Cummings/articles/12/Haleigh+Cummings+911+Call+Misty+Croslin
.
Amster
03-30-2009, 12:17 AM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/radio_calls_haleigh_cummings_021909
Does this say Haleigh was last seen an hour or hour and a half before the 911 call?
yosande
03-30-2009, 12:31 AM
ME! I have hung up on 911! I didn't have time to sit and chat with a woman bleeding in my kitchen who required immediate medical attention until help arrived.
There may have been another time I hung up on them, too. Action requires people to be off the phone and to me...it is a waste of time to sit and answer questions. After I call for a request of fire, police, ambulance...tell them the situation, the location, and such...no need to keep them on the line unless they can help me.
I've never heard of anyone hanging up on a dispatcher while asking for help. They will tell you when it's time to hang up, you don't tell them. If they feel like you know what you're doing, and the situation is under control until LE or EMT arrives, then they will let you know. They will also tell you if you need further assistance before the EMT arrives to not hesitate to call back. But you don't ever hang up first, and you certainly don't do after telling them they are no good, and worthless.
His lack of respect for the dispatcher was telling, right along with his lack of respect for the caregiver. And discovering that his own mom is a dispatcher only further reinforces the the notion that he has no respect for females at all, which is why it's believable that child abuse toward Haleigh is possible. jmo
snookie
03-30-2009, 12:34 AM
Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?
The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?I guess saying "hi, this is the doped up underage teen bed buddy in charge of the child who is now mysteriously gone...." wouldn't have sounded too good. :D
snookie
03-30-2009, 12:35 AM
{bolding mine) I agree, Seriously Searching, that there is urgency and panic in a missing child situation.
However, I don't see the need for Ron cursing the 911 operator and hanging up on them. His termininating the call could be easily accomplished by a simply "thanks; bye" or just "good bye" click - without the cursing name-calling and hanging up in someone's face.
Panic to me does equal name-calling and rudeness to someone trying to help.
MOO
.Exactly!! In a panic situation, where one is calling for HELP, it makes no sense to be cussing out the operator and hanging up. Ron and Misty apparently didn't appreciate being asked to give out important info. such as address, date of birth, and physical description..... makes me wonder why they even bothered calling. :confused:
Indigo
03-30-2009, 12:40 AM
I posted this once before on the 911 thread--hope it's alright to post it again. The following is my opinion of where I think Ron and Misty fall on the 911 analysis. Any thoughts?
R = Ronald M = Misty
I = Innocent G = Guilty
What was the call about?
I-Request help for victim
G-No request for help for victim (M,R)
I-Relevant information
G-Extraneous information (M,R)
I-Concern for victim
G-Insulting or blaming the victim
I-Correction of facts
G-Conflicting facts
Who is the call about?
I-Help requested for victim
G-Help requested for caller only (R)
I-Focus on victim's survival
G-Focus on caller's problem (R)
I-No acceptance of victim's death
G-Acceptance of victim's death
How was call made?
I-Voice modulation (R)
G-No voice modulation
I-Urgently, rudely demanding (R)
G-Polite and patient (M)
I-Cooperation with dispatcher(M)
G-Resists cooperation (R,M)
I-No self interruption (R)
G-Self-interruption (M)
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/...leb.htm#page22 (http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm/lpage22)
As I currently am a 911 dispatcher, let me just say when I first heard them play the 911 tape on T.V I thought something is not right at all. when you have done this for 19 years you tend to get that knack for weeding out the liars, and the real. and In my opinion on this one folks I call BULLSHIZZ on Misty.
..........JMO
Quiche
03-30-2009, 12:51 AM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/radio_calls_haleigh_cummings_021909
Does this say Haleigh was last seen an hour or hour and a half before the 911 call?
I listened and heard that too...but was uncertain if it was Haleigh or a LEO they were referencing. idk, but thanks for the link.
Amster
03-30-2009, 01:34 AM
As I currently am a 911 dispatcher, let me just say when I first heard them play the 911 tape on T.V I thought something is not right at all. when you have done this for 19 years you tend to get that knack for weeding out the liars, and the real. and In my opinion on this one folks I call BULLSHIZZ on Misty.
..........JMO
Did you listen to the police dispatch? It's a little hard to understand....
I used to work dispatch....many moons ago. Small dept. We took the 911 calls along with all the other calls. I've heard hysterical, calm and everything in between. The Misty call would have been difficult for me. Mainly because of Ron screeching in the background about killing someone.....
Did you listen to the police dispatch? It's a little hard to understand....
I used to work dispatch....many moons ago. Small dept. We took the 911 calls along with all the other calls. I've heard hysterical, calm and everything in between. The Misty call would have been difficult for me. Mainly because of Ron screeching in the background about killing someone.....
Oh yes, I have heard that thing many times on the TV, internet and read the transcript, you know what really got me? was the first few words she spoke in that call. like someone mentioned on here, that there is no right or wrong way to panic, but in a way she was stuttering, choking on her words, almost like she was trying to hurry up and think of lies as she spoke, it kind of reminded me of when my 13 year old lies to me LOL just digging for the"right" thing to say. :D
Amster
03-30-2009, 03:24 AM
Oh yes, I have heard that thing many times on the TV, internet and read the transcript, you know what really got me? was the first few words she spoke in that call. like someone mentioned on here, that there is no right or wrong way to panic, but in a way she was stuttering, choking on her words, almost like she was trying to hurry up and think of lies as she spoke, it kind of reminded me of when my 13 year old lies to me LOL just digging for the"right" thing to say. :D
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/radio_calls_haleigh_cummings_021909
Listen to this...
Donjeta
03-30-2009, 04:13 AM
I would not have stayed on the call with them in that situation either. I would have been looking for Haleigh and calling neighbors, family, others to come help, too. I guess it is why I don't consider it a big deal. I agree that dispatch wasn't going to be immediate help especially since it would take much longer for a deputy to arrive in a country type setting. The need to start looking was immediate and my response would not have been much different. I can see the urgency and desire to get them off the phone.
They had at least two phones, so one could have talked to 911 while the other called all relatives. And according to one of Misty's stories she woke up just before 3 and the 911 call came at 3:27. Half an hour. There would have been plenty of time to wake the neighbours up, call a relative and tell her to tell everybody else of the family to come, and go looking for Haleigh outside in between but there doesn't seem to have been the urgency to do that, for some reason.
TakeNote
03-30-2009, 04:37 AM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/radio_calls_haleigh_cummings_021909
Listen to this...
the dispatch does say hour to hour half....on the last time she was seen
scandi
03-30-2009, 05:39 AM
(bolding mine) I flove Pat brown, Scandi.
Below is an excerpt about the Cummings case from pat Brown's blogspot.
Excerpt from Pat Brown's Blogspot
"You know about the sad case of the little missing girl, Haleigh Cummings who has been missing for three weeks now. The news stories about this case are already a garish circus.
Geraldo Rivera is doing his usual "irreverent" style of aggressive and tacky interviewing (though I did appreciate that he got Haleigh's father, Ronald Cummings, to look straight into the camera and lie like a dog that didn't EVER do drugs (meaning that the police must have falsely arrested him some ten times for cocaine, meth, marijuana, heroin, GHB, etc.
The girl's father, Ronald Cummings, spouts off obscenities and acts out in weird ways. Add to this a whole cast of squirrelly characters who should be on Jerry Springer - the girlfriend, Misty Croslin, who can't keep her story straight, Haleigh's mother's overly emotional fiance, and the creepy criminal cousin Missy claims is a pedophile. What should be serious news topic becomes a bad reality television show with daily outrageous episodes."
Link to Pat Brown Profiling Blogspot
http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/ (http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/)
"Geraldo Confronts Missing Girl's Dad"
(Video clip and artilce)
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/Geraldo_Confronts_Dad022309
Hi again Kant, Reading Van Zant's comments was really educational for me. Thanks again for pointing them out.
One comment said with all the FBI agents there are, only 50 are profilers. And he then said if you want to be a profiler you need to work as an agent first and then gravitate into profiling. Fascinating.
Also thanks for the link to Pat Brown. My mouse is naughty at times at c & p'ing so I appreciate your giving the link to all.
xox
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/radio_calls_haleigh_cummings_021909
Listen to this...
Excellent find!! Dang...your good.:Banane35:
Skully
03-30-2009, 01:09 PM
Am I hearing that correct, they saw her 1hour to 1 1/2 hrs before the 911 call? they give *** Tyler as address just before, WTH?
This is Raisin Charlie's clip that I pinched from him in the parking lot Rumors thread.
FWIW, it briefly addresses some things I was wondering about.
At about 0:55 seconds in, the reported says (as far as I can tell)
REPORTER: "...A neighbor told me that she heard a woman yelling in or near this blue mobile home around 2:25 in the morning."
Also, at the beginning of the clip there's mention of the cousin and the gun. Mother Teresa said that there was was an altercation b/w Ron and the cousin. Ron denies it (..somewhere; I don't have the clip) Teresa says there was a gun. Ron denies that too and said something to the effect of..
RON: (paraphrased) "There's no gun; And no fight; I don't know where you people are getting these crazy stories from"
...Um... well, dude... from your mom...
More contradictions and inconsistencies.. *sigh*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKkhLHyO_s
Am I hearing that correct, they saw her 1hour to 1 1/2 hrs before the 911 call? they give *** Tyler as address just before, WTH?
ok....good now I know I wasnt hearing things, while I was listening I
"Thought" I heard that as well, but I had my husband yapping at the same time lol...so I guess it did say that.hmmmmm
As I currently am a 911 dispatcher, let me just say when I first heard them play the 911 tape on T.V I thought something is not right at all. when you have done this for 19 years you tend to get that knack for weeding out the liars, and the real. and In my opinion on this one folks I call BULLSHIZZ on Misty.
..........JMO
Love your avatar! heh heh.
hey, Mis, what is your take on Ron's part in the call?
.
Tom'sGirl
03-30-2009, 02:44 PM
Please leave house address numbers out of any future posts.
Thanks!
nomoresorrow
03-30-2009, 02:46 PM
Interview: WJXT/news4jax w/Misty C. on February 12, 2009
Background: Misty is sitting next to her mother (Lisa)
Watch Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTl4PUY6o_E
Key;
IQ = Interviewer’s question
MA = Misty’s answer
MM = Misty’s mom
Begin;
IQ: I can’t even imagine at my age going thru this.
MM: It’s horrible.
MA: It’s very horrible, very.
IQ: Did you hear anything?
MA: (Shaking head no) I didn’t hear anything at all, nothing. If I heard something I would have got up and I wouldn’t have let em’ take her.
IQ: So, so what happened?
MA: Okay, I put her to bed about, you know eight o’clock cause that’s her bedtime when she had school. I put her to bed and, and her blanket and my blanket, my blanket was in the van that they took so we had a blanket hanging on the window and I had to wash that and her blanket, her blanket, she had peed on it that night before I guess and I was gonna put it on her but it smelled like pee so I washed her blanket and I gave her a little sheet to cover up with and she fell asleep and I come in there and put her blanket on her and than I laid down and it was about, I mean I’m not positive what time it was, about three you know. I seen three o’clock in the morning. I got up and I got up cause I had to use the bathroom. I seen the kitchen light on and I walked in the kitchen and the backdoor was wide open. I mean, I didn’t notice about Haleigh that then until I seen the back door open and then I go back in (unintelligible) and she’s gone and that’s all I know cause when I woke up, went I went to sleep she was there and then when I woke up, she was gone.
IQ: What has that been like for you?
MA: I mean it’s been hard but I’m trying to do everything to find her you know, answer any questions I have to cause I know I didn’t do anything wit – to that little girl. I would never hurt her. I mean they love me, they love; I mean they look at me like their mom you know. Umm you guys (unintelligible), he’ll tell you, they talk about me and I’m so good to the kids, real good.
IQ: So, so you woke up and that was it, you saw the door open, did you leave the light on or did (Misty interrupts with answer)
MA: No I the (Interviewer finishes question)
IQ: they turned the light on?
MA: The lights had to get turned on cause I know them lights, I was in the hallway where the backdoor is, the dryers is right there. I was washing clothes and that backdoor was shut I mean, you know and I just wake up and it’s open.
IQ: Did you take a polygram? (I heard “polygram” but could possibly be mistaken – “polygraph” is the obvious meaning)
MA: Umm I did but I’m not supposed to talk about that. They told me not to talk about it.
IQ: But you did?
MA: Yes I did take a polygraph.
IQ: And you passed it?
MA: I mean it’s my understanding that I passed it.
IQ: What do you want people to know?
MA: I just want everybody to know that I didn’t do anything with that little girl. I loved her like she was my own and I’ll do anything to get her back and if people think I had something to do with it , if I had something to do with it, if I knew where she was, we wouldn’t be sitting here today, we would have her and I don’t know where she is.
End.
nomoresorrow
03-30-2009, 03:01 PM
Art H. Interview with Theresa N.
Posted on AH's site 3/30/09 (unsure of the exact date of interview)
Link to video;
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/30/exclusive-ronald-cummings-mom-defends-misty/#more-1419
Key;
AH: Art H (Interviewer)
TH: Theresa (Ronald C’s mother)
Begin;
AH: Tell me about Haleigh
TN: Haleigh is a very precious little girl. She is grandma’s angel, daddy’s heart, umm she’s tiny. She’s petite. She loves to sing and she loves makeup. She likes to play dress up. She loves to color and paint. She is very good at school. Oh wow, there’s just so many amazing things about Haleigh.
AH: What are some of the things that you really liked doing with her and she liked doing with grandma? What does she call you?
TN: She calls me grandma, yeah and we love to paint together. She likes to get into all that water paint. We love to do makeup cause she can make me look like a clown and I don’t care. She loves to paint my nails. She paints from one end to the other end, and that’s fine with me.
AH: Tell me, explain your support
TN: I can explain that. I have never seen my grandchildren more happy in their lives then they have been with Ronald and Misty. They are ecstatic. They’re always smiling, they’re always playing. They are, to me, it was an extreme joy to see them like a little family always doing things together. My babies loved her. I mean they absolutely wanted Ronald to marry her so she could be mommy.
AH: You’ve met a lot of Ronald’s girlfriends and the fiancé’s how does Misty rank in your mind?
TN: Ahh to my knowledge Ronald has only had one other fiancé’ and ahh some of the girlfriends; Misty is at the very top of the list. I can tell ya that, absolutely, she takes better care of the children than anyone I’ve ever seen with them. Umm they love her. You just cannot, you would have to see it to actually enjoy it. It touches your heart how happy they all are together. My granddaughter is out there somewhere, instead of pointing fingers and trying to make somebody out to be the bad guy they need to be looking for my granddaughter you know, and I have spoke with enough of the detectives and the people in the law enforcement, that I am comfortable with where I stand, so you know…
AH: Do they know who took Haleigh?
TN: No they do not
AH: Do they have some good suspects?
TN: I wish they did
End.
Art H. Interview with Theresa N.
Posted on AH's site 3/30/09 (unsure of the exact date of interview)
Link to video;
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/30/exclusive-ronald-cummings-mom-defends-misty/#more-1419
Key;
AH: Art H (Interviewer)
TH: Theresa (Ronald C’s mother)
Begin;
AH: Tell me about Haleigh
TN: Haleigh is a very precious little girl. She is grandma’s angel, daddy’s heart, umm she’s tiny. She’s petite. She loves to sing and she loves makeup. She likes to play dress up. She loves to color and paint. She is very good at school. Oh wow, there’s just so many amazing things about Haleigh.
AH: What are some of the things that you really liked doing with her and she liked doing with grandma? What does she call you?
TN: She calls me grandma, yeah and we love to paint together. She likes to get into all that water paint. We love to do makeup cause she can make me look like a clown and I don’t care. She loves to paint my nails. She paints from one end to the other end, and that’s fine with me.
AH: Tell me, explain your support
TN: I can explain that. I have never seen my grandchildren more happy in their lives then they have been with Ronald and Misty. They are ecstatic. They’re always smiling, they’re always playing. They are, to me, it was an extreme joy to see them like a little family always doing things together. My babies loved her. I mean they absolutely wanted Ronald to marry her so she could be mommy.
AH: You’ve met a lot of Ronald’s girlfriends and the fiancé’s how does Misty rank in your mind?
TN: Ahh to my knowledge Ronald has only had one other fiancé’ and ahh some of the girlfriends; Misty is at the very top of the list. I can tell ya that, absolutely, she takes better care of the children than anyone I’ve ever seen with them. Umm they love her. You just cannot, you would have to see it to actually enjoy it. It touches your heart how happy they all are together. My granddaughter is out there somewhere, instead of pointing fingers and trying to make somebody out to be the bad guy they need to be looking for my granddaughter you know, and I have spoke with enough of the detectives and the people in the law enforcement, that I am comfortable with where I stand, so you know…
AH: Do they know who took Haleigh?
TN: No they do not
AH: Do they have some good suspects?
TN: I wish they did
End.
Thanks for that transcript, Nomoresorrow;
I was hoping for some posted transcripts b/c they are useful to read, of course, but additionally, some folks have a problem opening the video links.
If you, (or anyone) have any more feel free to post them and go fot it. :-)
TIA.
Art H. Interview with Theresa N.
Posted on AH's site 3/30/09 (unsure of the exact date of interview)
Link to video;
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/30/exclusive-ronald-cummings-mom-defends-misty/#more-1419
Key;
AH: Art H (Interviewer)
TH: Theresa (Ronald C’s mother)
Begin;
AH: Tell me about Haleigh
TN: Haleigh is a very precious little girl. She is grandma’s angel, daddy’s heart, umm she’s tiny. She’s petite. She loves to sing and she loves makeup. She likes to play dress up. She loves to color and paint. She is very good at school. Oh wow, there’s just so many amazing things about Haleigh.
AH: What are some of the things that you really liked doing with her and she liked doing with grandma? What does she call you?
TN: She calls me grandma, yeah and we love to paint together. She likes to get into all that water paint. We love to do makeup cause she can make me look like a clown and I don’t care. She loves to paint my nails. She paints from one end to the other end, and that’s fine with me.
AH: Tell me, explain your support
TN: I can explain that. I have never seen my grandchildren more happy in their lives then they have been with Ronald and Misty.
They are ecstatic. They’re always smiling, they’re always playing.
They are, to me, it was an extreme joy to see them like a little family always doing things together.
My babies loved her. I mean they absolutely wanted Ronald to marry her so she could be mommy.
AH: You’ve met a lot of Ronald’s girlfriends and the fiancé’s how does Misty rank in your mind?
TN: Ahh to my knowledge Ronald has only had one other fiancé’ and ahh some of the girlfriends;
Misty is at the very top of the list.
I can tell ya that, absolutely, she takes better care of the children than anyone I’ve ever seen with them.
Umm they love her. You just cannot, you would have to see it to actually enjoy it.
It touches your heart how happy they all are together.
My granddaughter is out there somewhere, instead of pointing fingers and trying to make somebody out to be the bad guy they need to be looking for my granddaughter you know, and I have spoke with enough of the detectives and the people in the law enforcement, that I am comfortable with where I stand, so you know…
AH: Do they know who took Haleigh?
TN: No they do not
AH: Do they have some good suspects?
TN: I wish they did
End.
(bolding mine) Wow. Just.Wow. Teresa sure knows how to toot Misty's horn... the horn of the person under whose watch her grandaughter (supposedly) disappeared.
Stunning.
.
SeriouslySearching
03-30-2009, 03:34 PM
I think TN described her feelings in the transcript and I see nothing there to raise a red flag. She obviously believed at that point Misty had nothing to do with the disappearance. She may have changed her mind since then or have doubts now...we have no way of knowing. (I recall a time when Lacy's mother didn't suspect SP and spoke publically about him.)
She was recounting her first hand knowledge of what she saw in the home prior to Haliegh going missing. She saw her grandchildren who were healthy and happy to be there. She saw someone spending time with them and taking good care of them. If she had been concerned with their welfare or sensed danger...I honestly believe she would have addressed it at the time with Ronald.
Love your avatar! heh heh.
hey, Mis, what is your take on Ron's part in the call?
.
well other than the typical panic mode people go into, I RARELY hear people immediatly go into nothing but "threat mode" such as "Im gonna kill them" like RC started saying. during missing children calls I will hear alot of "Please help me, oh my god please help me my child is gone" and sometimes you cannot even make out what they are saying because they are screaming, crying, hyperventilating, they go into 200% panic mode, which is exactly what I would do. When I heard this call on T.V I thought to myself it would never cross my mind once to scream at the police like they are the bad guys, or instantly warn them that I am going to kill these people who have my child, that would not go through my mind. some of you may say ;well you wouldnt know what to do until you have been there before right? well I have! My 6 year old daughter one day was 10 min late coming home on the bus so I called the school to ask if the buses were running late (as they sometimes do) considering the bus stop is 2 houses down from me I was waiting there for her, the school called in the bus, and the driver said he already made his stops and he was heading back to he station, the school called in ALL the buses for that school to check if she was on there, they all said NO. I called 911 and was frantically going nuts, I was in tears!! by now 45 min had gone by. well to make matters worse there was an attempted child abduction at her school a week earlier, so that was going through my mind. Well it turns out that my 6 year old daughter WAS put on the wrong bus and the bus driver apparently "misunderstood" the name the school called in which is why they said she was NOT on the bus. and trust me, my daughter has a very common easy name. after all that, the school district fired the bus driver, for being under the influence of a pain medication while transporting the children. so I know how it feels to think someone has taken your child, it was the most sickening feeling I could ever feel. And may I add that while I was on the phone with 911, and the school, My husband ,and neighbors all got in their cars and went searching we were all looking at once not waiting damn near 30 min to act on it, thats another thing that looks sketchy! (sorry about the long post)to anwer your question, I feel RC knows more than what he's telling, even on the night that 911 call was made. :)
Indigo
03-30-2009, 04:19 PM
Ron's impatience with the dispatcher makes no sense. According to Misty, Ronald knew that Haleigh was missing just after 3:00. This means they both delayed calling 911 for nearly 30 minutes.
Ron's impatience with the dispatcher makes no sense. According to Misty, Ronald knew that Haleigh was missing just after 3:00. This means they both delayed calling 911 for nearly 30 minutes.
Exactly!! did she or did she not state she called RC on his cell phone first? if so why the hell did they BOTH wait to call 911? either way he should have been on the phone with 911 on his way home if thats the case as well as she should have called as soon as she realized she was gone, instead of waiting to call RC first, to me it's almost like she had to wait for permission from RC to call 911.
well other than the typical panic mode people go into, I RARELY hear people immediatly go into nothing but "threat mode" such as "Im gonna kill them" like RC started saying. during missing children calls I will hear alot of "Please help me, oh my god please help me my child is gone" and sometimes you cannot even make out what they are saying because they are screaming, crying, hyperventilating, they go into 200% panic mode, which is exactly what I would do. When I heard this call on T.V I thought to myself it would never cross my mind once to scream at the police like they are the bad guys, or instantly warn them that I am going to kill these people who have my child, that would not go through my mind. some of you may say ;well you wouldnt know what to do until you have been there before right? well I have! My 6 year old daughter one day was 10 min late coming home on the bus so I called the school to ask if the buses were running late (as they sometimes do) considering the bus stop is 2 houses down from me I was waiting there for her, the school called in the bus, and the driver said he already made his stops and he was heading back to he station, the school called in ALL the buses for that school to check if she was on there, they all said NO. I called 911 and was frantically going nuts, I was in tears!! by now 45 min had gone by. well to make matters worse there was an attempted child abduction at her school a week earlier, so that was going through my mind. Well it turns out that my 6 year old daughter WAS put on the wrong bus and the bus driver apparently "misunderstood" the name the school called in which is why they said she was NOT on the bus. and trust me, my daughter has a very common easy name. after all that, the school district fired the bus driver, for being under the influence of a pain medication while transporting the children. so I know how it feels to think someone has taken your child, it was the most sickening feeling I could ever feel. And may I add that while I was on the phone with 911, and the school, My husband ,and neighbors all got in their cars and went searching we were all looking at once not waiting damn near 30 min to act on it, thats another thing that looks sketchy! (sorry about the long post)to anwer your question, I feel RC knows more than what he's telling, even on the night that 911 call was made. :)
Thanks for that, Mis.
I don't know what part is the weirdest for me, but Ron's, "I'm gonna kill 'um; you can put that on recording; I'll go to prison for the rest of my life; I don't care.." (paraphrased) ranks near the top. oh -puh-leeze....
IMO, he ironically got the prison part right tho....
:D
.
Thanks for that, Mis.
I don't know what part is the weirdest for me, but Ron's, "I'm gonna kill 'um; you can put that on recording; I'll got to prison for the rest of my life; I don't care.." (paraphrased) ranks near the top. oh -puh-leeze....
IMO, he ironically got the prison part right tho....
:D
.
LOL yes he did!....... I agree he was over the top, I feel that was his guilty way of trying to look innocent, with all the dramatics of wanting to find the person who "stole" her. (did that make sense?) lol
Interview: WJXT/news4jax w/Misty C. on February 12, 2009
Background: Misty is sitting next to her mother (Lisa)
Watch Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTl4PUY6o_E
Key;
IQ = Interviewer’s question
MA = Misty’s answer
MM = Misty’s mom
Begin;
IQ: I can’t even imagine at my age going thru this.
MM: It’s horrible.
MA: It’s very horrible, very.
IQ: Did you hear anything?
MA: (Shaking head no) I didn’t hear anything at all, nothing. If I heard something I would have got up and I wouldn’t have let em’ take her.
IQ: So, so what happened?
MA: Okay, I put her to bed about, you know eight o’clock cause that’s her bedtime when she had school. I put her to bed and, and her blanket and my blanket, my blanket was in the van that they took so we had a blanket hanging on the window and I had to wash that and her blanket, her blanket, she had peed on it that night before I guess and I was gonna put it on her but it smelled like pee so I washed her blanket and I gave her a little sheet to cover up with and she fell asleep and I come in there and put her blanket on her and than I laid down and it was about, I mean I’m not positive what time it was, about three you know. I seen three o’clock in the morning. I got up and I got up cause I had to use the bathroom. I seen the kitchen light on and I walked in the kitchen and the backdoor was wide open. I mean, I didn’t notice about Haleigh that then until I seen the back door open and then I go back in (unintelligible) and she’s gone and that’s all I know cause when I woke up, went I went to sleep she was there and then when I woke up, she was gone.
IQ: What has that been like for you?
MA: I mean it’s been hard but I’m trying to do everything to find her you know, answer any questions I have to cause I know I didn’t do anything wit – to that little girl. I would never hurt her. I mean they love me, they love; I mean they look at me like their mom you know. Umm you guys (unintelligible), he’ll tell you, they talk about me and I’m so good to the kids, real good.
IQ: So, so you woke up and that was it, you saw the door open, did you leave the light on or did (Misty interrupts with answer)
MA: No I the (Interviewer finishes question)
IQ: they turned the light on?
MA: The lights had to get turned on cause I know them lights, I was in the hallway where the backdoor is, the dryers is right there. I was washing clothes and that backdoor was shut I mean, you know and I just wake up and it’s open.
IQ: Did you take a polygram? (I heard “polygram” but could possibly be mistaken – “polygraph” is the obvious meaning)
MA: Umm I did but I’m not supposed to talk about that. They told me not to talk about it.
IQ: But you did?
MA: Yes I did take a polygraph.
IQ: And you passed it?
MA: I mean it’s my understanding that I passed it.
IQ: What do you want people to know?
MA: I just want everybody to know that I didn’t do anything with that little girl. I loved her like she was my own and I’ll do anything to get her back and if people think I had something to do with it , if I had something to do with it, if I knew where she was, we wouldn’t be sitting here today, we would have her and I don’t know where she is.
End.
It seems to me like this is the only video where she is "upset" and somewhat crying, every other video I see of her she is prancing around, smiling almost giddy like, chain smoking. and walking as if she has not one care in this world. her story seems very rehearsed in EVERY interview. :waitasec:
nomoresorrow
03-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Fox News/Greta VS - Interview w/ Ronald Cummings & Misty Croslin - February 13, 2009.
Link to video;
Can be viewed at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-z6jX8Xvmc
Key;
GVS = Greta VS (Interviwer)
RC = Ronald C.
MC = Misty C.
Begin;
GVS: Haleigh’s father Ronald and his girlfriend Misty are both here. Now here’s what we know; 3 am Monday morning Misty says she found Haleigh missing from the bed they were sharing; about 3:25 Ronald returns home from work; two minutes later at 3:27 am Misty calls 911 and reports Haleigh missing, since then, nothing, the toddler’s gone. Ronald Cummings, Haleigh’s father joins us live along with his girlfriend Misty Croslin. Welcome to both of you and Ronald, umm is there any update in the last twenty-four hours in the search for your daughter?
RC: No…nothing
GVS: Have there been any sightings and any tips coming in Ronald, anything at all like that?
RC: Plenty of tips. Most of em are bogus, ahh, the law enforcement agencies are doing everything they can, ahh, they got approximately fifty horses coming in. They’re gonna start doing a ground search with horses, dogs, ahh, helicopters; they’re doing everything they can. Ahh Federal agents, ahh different, numerous different counties sheriff’s out there. They’re, they’re really trying to help us
GVS: Misty, umm what is Haleigh like?
MC: Umm, she’s a real good girl and she’s fun to be around. She’s always happy. She’s real smart, intelligent
GVS: Misty is she the type that would walk off with a stranger?
MC: No (in a lowered voice to Ronald; “I am”)
GVS: Ronald is she the type that would just wonder off with a stranger at all or is she a shy child?
RC: (shaking head no) absolutely not. She is definitely shy. She would never walk off with a stranger for no reason, besides it was dark; she’s afraid of the dark (Misty nods head “yes” in agreement)
GVS: Misty, umm the other night, Monday night you last saw her about ten o’clock, is that right?
MC: What was that? I didn’t hear her… (last part directed to Ronald)
GVS: Is that correct, you saw her, did see her, you last saw Hal…Haleigh at about ten o’clock Monday night when she was in bed, is that right Misty?
MC: Yes maam
GVS: Umm was anything going on with her? Did she fall asleep easily or was she ah ahh at all anxious, getting up and leaving the bed?
MC: Umm no, she ahh, she had school so I put her to bed at about eight o’clock cause that’s her bedtime, and you know so she can get up and go to school so she’s not tired
GVS: Were you with; were you in the same bed with Haleigh Misty?
MC: No
GVS: Were you in the same room?
MC: Yes
GVS: So, so tell me what happened; how I mean, tell me did you hear anything between the time you pu…saw her at ten o’clock and the time that ahh you woke up and saw her missing? Did you hear any noises?
MC: No maam (added something but unable to make out)
GVS: Had you been drinking or…had you been drinking or anything so you’d be in a heavy sleep at all that night?
MC: No
GVS: So tell me what happened; you got up to use the bathroom, is that right?
MC: Yeah, I got up to use the bathroom. I didn’t make it to the bathroom. Umm I walked into the living room and noticed that the kitchen was on and seen the back door open. I had ran back into the bedroom; that’s when I noticed she was gone
GVS: And when…so Ronald you came home at about 3:25 am from work?
RC: Yes
GVS: Did…when, did you come in the front door or the back door of the doublewide Ronald?
RC: I came in the front door, ahh, umm I pulled in the driveway; She was standing at the front door hysteric and I wanted to know what she was doing up first at that time of night, usually she’s in bed; they’re all in bed asleep and she told me that she just got up to use the bathroom and that she seen that Haleigh was not in her bed. She went to find her and the back door was wide open and she was nowhere to be found; she was gone
GVS: Misty had you actually been the one to lock that back door?
MC: Umm… no, I did not lock the back door because the back door is always locked. We really don’t use the back door… (Ronald chimes in)
RC: Absolutely
GVS: And what kind of lock; what kind of locks on that back door Ronald? Is it a deadbolt and do you need a key or is there a knob on the inside? How, how do you work that, that back door?
RC: has a lock on a knob on the inside and it has a deadbolt also and the deadbolt is very hard to get unlocked once you get it locked; you have to push in hard on the door and ahh, a child would never get that unlocked
MC: (in a very low voice) No (in agreement with Ronald’s statement about the door)
GVS: Misty have you ever gone … (Ronald interrupts) go ahead, I’m sorry Ronald…
RC: I, I do keep it locked. I, I do check it every afternoon before I leave for work. It’s always locked; always
GVS: Misty do you ever use that door yourself; go in and out that door?
MC: Umm… ahh, I mean once in a while I’ll take the garbage out through the back door or we’ll use the back door to like take the vacuum and vacuum the car out, but that’s the only time we use the back door
GVS: Misty did anybody come over to the house that evening…umm while Ronald was at work…any friends come over?
MC: Umm…my older, no…the…my older brother had come over with my nephews and my niece and the a/c guy
GVS: What time did they leave?
MC: Umm…they got there about five o’clock and ahh…and ahh…yeah about five o’clock and they stayed for about thirty minutes, til about five-thirty, five forty-five
GVS: Ronald I understand that there doesn’t appear to be any forced entry into the home and that back door…umm so how do you think it got open?
RC: I honestly don’t have any clue, I don’t have any clue…ahh somebody, somebody, maybe ahh locksmith ahh picked, pick-lock artist, I don’t know but it was definitely locked and somebody came in through it, so I couldn’t explain it (Ron adds something but unable to make out)
GVS: Misty let me ask you the same question; Misty how do you think that door got open?
MC: Umm…someone had ahh picked the lock you know…they had to pick the lock, that’s the only way that anybody could have gotten in the back door is if they picked the lock
GVS: In terms of where you were sleeping Misty and where Haleigh was sleeping Misty, who was closer to the back door?
MC: Umm…Haleigh would probably been closer to the back door, I mean she was on the wall; the side of the wall that was the closest to the kitchen… (Ronald interrupts)
RC: I’d like to comment…
GVS: And, and how far was Haleigh physically sleeping from you Misty?
MC: Probably not like three or four inches away. She was just right, she was in front of the TV…I mean not that far at all
GVS: Three or four inches? Did you say three or four inches?
MC: No, umm…I mean, ahh…I’m not sure. It wasn’t that far away
GVS: Can you just hold up your hands and just show me, measure like your hands how far away she was sleeping?
MC: Umm…probably like from (holding arms/hands apart) these chairs put together from my bed (referring to the chairs that her and Ronald were seated in for the interview)
GVS: About as far as Ronald is from you?
MC: Yes
RC: No
MC: No?
RC: No…I…I know where (Misty in the back ground: Okay) the beds are at; They’re about four feet apart from the edge of the bed she was in, to the edge of the bed Haleigh was in
MC: I wasn’t measuring or anything like that so…
GVS: Now I know both of you did a polygraph today; did they say that you were deceptive or not on the polygraph? Did they tell you how your results were? How were yours Ronald?
RC: Absolutely they did…they did. It was…it was…it was not today that we took the polygraph, we took the polygraph yesterday (At this time Misty says: we’re not supposed to discuss it) and umm…yes, we both did pass
GVS: And Misty, what did they say to you about your results?
MC: I mean…that I passed (Ronald nods head in the affirmative as Misty makes this statement)
GVS: Did…did they use the word “pass” or did they say there was no sign of deception?
MC: I mean…ahh… (RC interrupts)
RC: They told me that I passed (Misty, in a lowered voice states, “they said that I passed,” as GVS starts her next question)
GVS: Okay what’d they say to you Misty?
MC: They said that I passed then they didn’t say much to me… (GVS interrupts)
GVS: Okay, well we certainly…well we’re hopeful by putting the spotlight on this people will call in tips if they know anything at all about this child because I know that you both want her back very badly. Ronald, Misty, thank you and let’s hope we get some good news soon. Thank you both very much.
End.
Fox News/Greta VS - Interview w/ Ronald Cummings & Misty Croslin - February 13, 2009.
Link to video;
Can be viewed at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-z6jX8Xvmc
Key;
GVS = Greta VS (Interviwer)
RC = Ronald C.
MC = Misty C.
Begin;
GVS: Haleigh’s father Ronald and his girlfriend Misty are both here. Now here’s what we know; 3 am Monday morning Misty says she found Haleigh missing from the bed they were sharing; about 3:25 Ronald returns home from work; two minutes later at 3:27 am Misty calls 911 and reports Haleigh missing, since then, nothing, the toddler’s gone. Ronald Cummings, Haleigh’s father joins us live along with his girlfriend Misty Croslin. Welcome to both of you and Ronald, umm is there any update in the last twenty-four hours in the search for your daughter?
RC: No…nothing
GVS: Have there been any sightings and any tips coming in Ronald, anything at all like that?
RC: Plenty of tips. Most of em are bogus, ahh, the law enforcement agencies are doing everything they can, ahh, they got approximately fifty horses coming in. They’re gonna start doing a ground search with horses, dogs, ahh, helicopters; they’re doing everything they can. Ahh Federal agents, ahh different, numerous different counties sheriff’s out there. They’re, they’re really trying to help us
GVS: Misty, umm what is Haleigh like?
MC: Umm, she’s a real good girl and she’s fun to be around. She’s always happy. She’s real smart, intelligent
GVS: Misty is she the type that would walk off with a stranger?
MC: No (in a lowered voice to Ronald; “I am”)
GVS: Ronald is she the type that would just wonder off with a stranger at all or is she a shy child?
RC: (shaking head no) absolutely not. She is definitely shy. She would never walk off with a stranger for no reason, besides it was dark; she’s afraid of the dark (Misty nods head “yes” in agreement)
GVS: Misty, umm the other night, Monday night you last saw her about ten o’clock, is that right?
MC: What was that? I didn’t hear her… (last part directed to Ronald)
GVS: Is that correct, you saw her, did see her, you last saw Hal…Haleigh at about ten o’clock Monday night when she was in bed, is that right Misty?
MC: Yes maam
GVS: Umm was anything going on with her? Did she fall asleep easily or was she ah ahh at all anxious, getting up and leaving the bed?
MC: Umm no, she ahh, she had school so I put her to bed at about eight o’clock cause that’s her bedtime, and you know so she can get up and go to school so she’s not tired
GVS: Were you with; were you in the same bed with Haleigh Misty?
MC: No
GVS: Were you in the same room?
MC: Yes
GVS: So, so tell me what happened; how I mean, tell me did you hear anything between the time you pu…saw her at ten o’clock and the time that ahh you woke up and saw her missing? Did you hear any noises?
MC: No maam (added something but unable to make out)
GVS: Had you been drinking or…had you been drinking or anything so you’d be in a heavy sleep at all that night?
MC: No
GVS: So tell me what happened; you got up to use the bathroom, is that right?
MC: Yeah, I got up to use the bathroom. I didn’t make it to the bathroom. Umm I walked into the living room and noticed that the kitchen was on and seen the back door open. I had ran back into the bedroom; that’s when I noticed she was gone
GVS: And when…so Ronald you came home at about 3:25 am from work?
RC: Yes
GVS: Did…when, did you come in the front door or the back door of the doublewide Ronald?
RC: I came in the front door, ahh, umm I pulled in the driveway; She was standing at the front door hysteric and I wanted to know what she was doing up first at that time of night, usually she’s in bed; they’re all in bed asleep and she told me that she just got up to use the bathroom and that she seen that Haleigh was not in her bed. She went to find her and the back door was wide open and she was nowhere to be found; she was gone
GVS: Misty had you actually been the one to lock that back door?
MC: Umm… no, I did not lock the back door because the back door is always locked. We really don’t use the back door… (Ronald chimes in)
RC: Absolutely
GVS: And what kind of lock; what kind of locks on that back door Ronald? Is it a deadbolt and do you need a key or is there a knob on the inside? How, how do you work that, that back door?
RC: has a lock on a knob on the inside and it has a deadbolt also and the deadbolt is very hard to get unlocked once you get it locked; you have to push in hard on the door and ahh, a child would never get that unlocked
MC: (in a very low voice) No (in agreement with Ronald’s statement about the door)
GVS: Misty have you ever gone … (Ronald interrupts) go ahead, I’m sorry Ronald…
RC: I, I do keep it locked. I, I do check it every afternoon before I leave for work. It’s always locked; always
GVS: Misty do you ever use that door yourself; go in and out that door?
MC: Umm… ahh, I mean once in a while I’ll take the garbage out through the back door or we’ll use the back door to like take the vacuum and vacuum the car out, but that’s the only time we use the back door
GVS: Misty did anybody come over to the house that evening…umm while Ronald was at work…any friends come over?
MC: Umm…my older, no…the…my older brother had come over with my nephews and my niece and the a/c guy
GVS: What time did they leave?
MC: Umm…they got there about five o’clock and ahh…and ahh…yeah about five o’clock and they stayed for about thirty minutes, til about five-thirty, five forty-five
GVS: Ronald I understand that there doesn’t appear to be any forced entry into the home and that back door…umm so how do you think it got open?
RC: I honestly don’t have any clue, I don’t have any clue…ahh somebody, somebody, maybe ahh locksmith ahh picked, pick-lock artist, I don’t know but it was definitely locked and somebody came in through it, so I couldn’t explain it (Ron adds something but unable to make out)
GVS: Misty let me ask you the same question; Misty how do you think that door got open?
MC: Umm…someone had ahh picked the lock you know…they had to pick the lock, that’s the only way that anybody could have gotten in the back door is if they picked the lock
GVS: In terms of where you were sleeping Misty and where Haleigh was sleeping Misty, who was closer to the back door?
MC: Umm…Haleigh would probably been closer to the back door, I mean she was on the wall; the side of the wall that was the closest to the kitchen… (Ronald interrupts)
RC: I’d like to comment…
GVS: And, and how far was Haleigh physically sleeping from you Misty?
MC: Probably not like three or four inches away. She was just right, she was in front of the TV…I mean not that far at all
GVS: Three or four inches? Did you say three or four inches?
MC: No, umm…I mean, ahh…I’m not sure. It wasn’t that far away
GVS: Can you just hold up your hands and just show me, measure like your hands how far away she was sleeping?
MC: Umm…probably like from (holding arms/hands apart) these chairs put together from my bed (referring to the chairs that her and Ronald were seated in for the interview)
GVS: About as far as Ronald is from you?
MC: Yes
RC: No
MC: No?
RC: No…I…I know where (Misty in the back ground: Okay) the beds are at; They’re about four feet apart from the edge of the bed she was in, to the edge of the bed Haleigh was in
MC: I wasn’t measuring or anything like that so…
GVS: Now I know both of you did a polygraph today; did they say that you were deceptive or not on the polygraph? Did they tell you how your results were? How were yours Ronald?
RC: Absolutely they did…they did. It was…it was…it was not today that we took the polygraph, we took the polygraph yesterday (At this time Misty says: we’re not supposed to discuss it) and umm…yes, we both did pass
GVS: And Misty, what did they say to you about your results?
MC: I mean…that I passed (Ronald nods head in the affirmative as Misty makes this statement)
GVS: Did…did they use the word “pass” or did they say there was no sign of deception?
MC: I mean…ahh… (RC interrupts)
RC: They told me that I passed (Misty, in a lowered voice states, “they said that I passed,” as GVS starts her next question)
GVS: Okay what’d they say to you Misty?
MC: They said that I passed then they didn’t say much to me… (GVS interrupts)
GVS: Okay, well we certainly…well we’re hopeful by putting the spotlight on this people will call in tips if they know anything at all about this child because I know that you both want her back very badly. Ronald, Misty, thank you and let’s hope we get some good news soon. Thank you both very much.
End.
GOSH did you see his eyes glare to the side when she started messing up?? ewww he's scary. the body language in that single interview speaks volumes as far as i'm concerned.:censored:
Thank you for this one :)
Law_girl41
03-30-2009, 05:09 PM
Excellant thread Kant! I was in hiding for a while, frustrating that we had run out of things to discuss. That 911 call is going to come back & bite the two of them (Ron & Misty). Too many inconsistancies in their demeanor to be believed. Hooyey!
I'm going back and reading all the posts.
scandi
03-30-2009, 05:15 PM
Excellant thread Kant! I was in hiding for a while, frustrating that we had run out of things to discuss. That 911 call is going to come back & bite the two of them (Ron & Misty). Too many inconsistancies in their demeanor to be believed. Hooyey!
I'm going back and reading all the posts.
Kant's a Keeper! LOLOLOL I have really gained allot from this thread too. YaYa
Law_girl41
03-30-2009, 05:24 PM
That 911 link is not the most clear one around, but I cant find the good one.
Does someone have it handy? ....one that is more audible.. or better?
TIA. ;-)
try this one, less noisy
Emeralgem
03-30-2009, 05:39 PM
Yeah, Passionflower, Misty and Ron during their 911 call kind of give me the willies.MOO
.
As did their interview when they appeared together on GS.. Not to mention that fiasco on the Today Show right after they got married...
All I can say to any of that is... What Kinda Fool Do You Think I Am?
GOSH did you see his eyes glare to the side when she started messing up?? ewww he's scary. the body language in that single interview speaks volumes as far as i'm concerned.:censored:
Thank you for this one :)
Yes, Ron's eyes gave me the willies in that Greta clip, Mis;
And thank you so much for the transcript, Nomoresorrow! GREAT WORK as usual. :-)
:bow: . :bow:
.
As did their interview when they appeared together on GS.. Not to mention that fiasco on the Today Show right after they got married...
All I can say to any of that is... What Kinda Fool Do You Think I Am?
"Fiasco" is right, Emeralgem;
It seems like every interview that I see Ron giving, it turns into to a willies fiesta for me. Also, I noticed that after Ron lawyered up, the atty apparently advised him to zip his yapper.
Good advice... for Ron, I mean. Every time he spoke, he wasn't exactly endearing himself to the masses. And that's an understatement, imo..... Misty too for that matter.
MOO
.
try this one, less noisy
Ooops, Law_girl41, I clicked the "Circle of Violence" you tube clip.
.
Law_girl41
03-30-2009, 06:32 PM
Ooops, Law_girl41, I clicked the "Circle of Violence" you tube clip.
.
:blushing: OOps is right.....I forgot the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDXP15Uqwuk.However, turns out to be the very same one you posted 2 pages before...Okay I am going backwards here.........I am reading posts, mostly really good ones. Nmore sorrow has put in a lot of time. good job you guys/gals.
BTW, this is to everyone who may have already chosen a side for one reason or another....... can we try to keep this thread from turning into a fued type thread like the others? Thats so not what this is about, I really think its not necessary to grandstand players, they each have their own threads. TIA
These clips are of Ron, the 911 call bits, some guests, etc from the Nancy (stripper pole!) Grace show.
Side note: The amazing speedy magic fingers... aka Nomoresorrow, may have a transcript if needed. (Thanks for staying on top of that, Nomoresorrow. Mucho Appreesh.) :woohoo:
___________________________________________
(1) Haleigh Cummings - Nancy 2/11/09 Part 1 of 7 5:36 min
> At 2:22 Ron relays the story from when he pulled into the front yard and what happned next with Misty etc > Part of 911 call > part of Ron's first interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTj5o3aJsgw&feature=related
___________________________________________
(2) Haleigh Cummings - Nancy 2/11/09 Part 2 of 7 1:03 min
> Ron was at work but describes the scene > 911 call Misty tried to describe Haleigh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqK2D1-e_YE&feature=related
___________________________________________
(3) Haleigh Cummings - Nancy 2/11/09 Part 3 of 7 6:52 min
> Part of 911 call with partial transcript > at 1:51 min Ron threatens to kill someone >
At 1:59 - Dispatcher:
"What kind of description of her pajamas that she was wearing?'
RON: "I don't f****** know, I was at work!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vOssTtqr2k
___________________________________________
(4) Haleigh Cummings - Nancy 2/11/09 Part 4 of 7 2:02 min
> Mark Klaas > Sheriff discusses RSOs in the area
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azlfpPg949g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azlfpPg949g)
___________________________________________
(5) Haleigh Cummings - Nancy 2/11/09 Part 5 of 7 1:10 min >
> Sheriff of Putnam County discusses that the infrared & sonar searches yield nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV-_yGkdK6Y
___________________________________________
(6) Haleigh Cummings - Nancy 2/11/09 Part 6 of 7 6:01 mins
> 911 call > partial audio w/ excerpts of transcript
0:23 sec
RON: "I just got home from work. My five year old daughter is gone. I need somebody here no. i'm telling you."
(Notice that Ron BEGINS with his alibi.... HINKY HINK peeps.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcqI2A2V8eE
___________________________________________
(7) Haleigh Cummings Nancy 2/11/09 Part 7 of 7 4:02 min
> Dr. Karen Stark on Haleigh "not likely that she wandered off.."
> Attys John Burrows & Michael Mazzarello on "looking at the family first"... statistically... > re: Ron's poly....etc. > Focus on the gf. > Suspicion of family members.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDLw3eNF80
:blushing: OOps is right.....I forgot the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDXP15Uqwuk.However, turns out to be the very same one you posted 2 pages before...Okay I am going backwards here.........I am reading posts, mostly really good ones. Nmore sorrow has put in a lot of time. good job you guys/gals.
BTW, this is to everyone who may have already chosen a side for one reason or another....... can we try to keep this thread from turning into a fued type thread like the others? Thats so not what this is about, I really think its not necessary to grandstand players, they each have their own threads. TIA
Excellent post; I couldn't agree more, Law_girl41.
"I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. "
Abigail Adams
MOO
.
yosande
03-30-2009, 09:49 PM
In the article "is the caller the killer" they use examples of guilty verses innocent.
1. Relevance of information.
adding info rather than focusing on victim, ie, RC's threats, and Misty's cinderblock story. 96% guilty.
2. Attitude toward victim.
blaming victim, 100% guilty. Didn't hear this with RC or Misty. However, Misty later on talks about Haleigh wetting the bed, but not sure if that counts, I don't think it does. I think the dbgf is worse, and calling 911 dispatcher worthless, worse, but that's verbal abuse toward females. Not in 911 call, but RC does mention on GR interview having a talk with Haleigh as to who the parent is and his spanking habits.
3. Accuracy of facts.
correcting erroneous information
100% of applicable callers were guilty who did not correct erroneous statements. Misty did not correct, RC avoided.
4. Who was the call about.
if victim is focus 32% of those guilty don't stay focused on victim. RC's rants is an example of not focusing on Haleigh, not caring if he is recorded or goes to jail forever.
5. attitude toward victims death.
accepting victim's death before known. 100% applicable callers were guilty of the crime. missing persons, no innocent family member will use past tense when refering to missing loved one if innocent. RC assumes she is stolen, hurt, or killed. We really don't know what he is thinking but assume he's willing to kill the intruder implies that he is assuming she is in danger. Thinking Le going out in search of a body in the fields assumes he thinks she is dead imooc.
6. voice modulation.
loud volume, fast speed, varied pitch, emotional tones.
or slow even unemotional 35% of applicable callers were guilty using slow even unemtional tones.
7. Urgency of call.
demanding verses polite and calm. Starting call with "hi"
100% were guilty who were calm and polite.
8. level of cooperation.
not responding to questions. RC
repeating words, unclear responses.
resistance to cooperation. RC
repetition, gaining time to think. MC
100% guilty
the "huh" factor, unless excessive background noise,(imo on purpose)
all but one was guilty.
continuing with one thought process,
or self interuptions. RC and MC
100% guilty. 2nd strongest indicator of guilt.
What was the call about?
Who was the call about?
How was the call made?
I hope this is appropiate. If not, mods please delete.
passionflower
03-30-2009, 10:15 PM
I posted this once before on the 911 thread--hope it's alright to post it again. The following is my opinion of where I think Ron and Misty fall on the 911 analysis. Any thoughts?
R = Ronald M = Misty
I = Innocent G = Guilty
What was the call about?
I-Request help for victim
G-No request for help for victim (M,R)
I-Relevant information
G-Extraneous information (M,R)
I-Concern for victim
G-Insulting or blaming the victim
I-Correction of facts
G-Conflicting facts
Who is the call about?
I-Help requested for victim
G-Help requested for caller only (R)
I-Focus on victim's survival
G-Focus on caller's problem (R)
I-No acceptance of victim's death
G-Acceptance of victim's death
How was call made?
I-Voice modulation (R)
G-No voice modulation
I-Urgently, rudely demanding (R)
G-Polite and patient (M)
I-Cooperation with dispatcher(M)
G-Resists cooperation (R,M)
I-No self interruption (R)
G-Self-interruption (M)
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/...leb.htm#page22 (http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm/lpage22)
Great work! Thanks.......I thought some of this, but so glad it is in writing!
passionflower
03-30-2009, 10:23 PM
I once read when a person uses words like NEVER, ABSOLUTELY, ALWAYS, DEFINATELY,
(I think from a Dr. during the Ramsey case) they are usually lying...............
I don't have a link, sorry, but it bothers me that RC talks like that.
passionflower
03-30-2009, 10:38 PM
Kant and No more Sorrow post #93..........thanks
I agree, if my son had 2 small children and had moved a 17 year old girl in to live with him and raise the children after only a few months..............
I would be killing them both if something happened to my grand daughter!
Yet TN OVERLY PRAISES Misty?????
WHY????
Is Misty covering up for TN?
RC wants TN covered also?
Something is just not right with TN wanting the wedding.
The engagement on TN birthday..........TN ring from an X?
IMOO
ilovemew
03-31-2009, 12:18 AM
In the article "is the caller the killer" they use examples of guilty verses innocent.
1. Relevance of information.
adding info rather than focusing on victim, ie, RC's threats, and Misty's cinderblock story. 96% guilty.
2. Attitude toward victim.
blaming victim, 100% guilty. Didn't hear this with RC or Misty. However, Misty later on talks about Haleigh wetting the bed,
Wow I just got the heebie jeebies when I read that. The Ramsey case had something about wetting the bed also right? Probably just a weird coincidence. Do you think Misty made that part up? Can you tell by how she says it? Is it considered additional information like when someone's being deceptive?
Peliman
03-31-2009, 01:39 AM
This is Raisin Charlie's clip that I pinched from him in the parking lot Rumors thread.
FWIW, it briefly addresses some things I was wondering about.
At about 0:55 seconds in, the reported says (as far as I can tell)
REPORTER: "...A neighbor told me that she heard a woman yelling in or near this blue mobile home around 2:25 in the morning."
Also, at the beginning of the clip there's mention of the cousin and the gun. Mother Teresa said that there was was an altercation b/w Ron and the cousin. Ron denies it (..somewhere; I don't have the clip) Teresa says there was a gun. Ron denies that too and said something to the effect of..
RON: (paraphrased) "There's no gun; And no fight; I don't know where you people are getting these crazy stories from"
...Um... well, dude... from your mom...
More contradictions and inconsistencies.. *sigh*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKkhLHyO_s
Finally found this... The cousin and the gun, revisited. :)
http://www.truveo.com/Search-for-Haleigh-Family-speaks-out/id/288230385343616064
Skully
03-31-2009, 09:04 AM
(bolding mine) Wow. Just.Wow. Teresa sure knows how to toot Misty's horn... the horn of the person under whose watch her grandaughter (supposedly) disappeared.
Stunning.
.
Double Wow, because this is a Mother In Law that has heard the rumors of Misty running around on her son, and RC admits to knowing about it according to Cobra. I would be mad just about that and warn my son not to marry her, let alone the fact she was the one person last seen with my missing granddaughter. I wouldn't be signing such high praises if Misty were dating my son and I heard he had to bring her back from a weekend of partying and running around. JMO
Emeralgem
03-31-2009, 09:38 AM
TN tooting Misty's horn and praising her to high heaven is just further proof IMHO that she knows her son is somehow responsible or involved in Haleigh's disappearance..
No way considering everything that has been speculated upon and revealed would they be covering for Misty unless it was to save Ron C's rear-end..
Whisperer
03-31-2009, 12:27 PM
The police statements leave a lot to be desired:
I am still waiting to confirm who really picked up Haleigh from bus on Monday. I know RC claims it, but if he had to be at work by 4:00pm that would not work. The bus stop was located at Buffalo Bluff Road and Tyler st. That must be close to RR tracks. Coincidence is that is where the dogs stopped.
If we follow the dog tracks it leads to the water than Buchanan circle (Ron used to live there) and in a loop up to tyler past Chelsea's to the railroad tracks at Buffalo Bufff. I do not know whether the dogs can smell if the victim is in a car or not. I guess so if window is open. Did anyone confirm if Haleigh was in school that day? If so, when did she arrive home? Had to be close to after 3:30, due to the very long drive on the bus. School is about 7 Mi. from home....don't know how many stops bus makes.
Flossie JMO
03-31-2009, 01:40 PM
Maybe TN has more information, and facts, and maybe all of the rumours are not true.
Double Wow, because this is a Mother In Law that has heard the rumors of Misty running around on her son, and RC admits to knowing about it according to Cobra. I would be mad just about that and warn my son not to marry her, let alone the fact she was the one person last seen with my missing granddaughter. I wouldn't be signing such high praises if Misty were dating my son and I heard he had to bring her back from a weekend of partying and running around. JMO
Maybe TN has more information, and facts, and maybe all of the rumours are not true.
I tried the post the link, Flossie in which Misty admits the 3 day excursion .. bender.. whatever word they use - with "Greg" just prior to Haleigh's disappearance, but the link wouldn't post. I could try to post an excerpt from the link instead of the link itself; Maybe that would work. :-)
Also, on that one audio, we had Cobra relaying what he (allegedly) said to Ron and what Ron's responses were. I happen to find Cobra believable; but still, that's not proof that Ron said those things.. as in the part in which Cobra said.... that Ron said... that Ron was already aware of a liaison b/w Misty and that Greg dude.
.
The police statements leave a lot to be desired:
I am still waiting to confirm who really picked up Haleigh from bus on Monday. I know RC claims it, but if he had to be at work by 4:00pm that would not work. The bus stop was located at Buffalo Bluff Road and Tyler st. That must be close to RR tracks. Coincidence is that is where the dogs stopped.
If we follow the dog tracks it leads to the water than Buchanan circle (Ron used to live there) and in a loop up to tyler past Chelsea's to the railroad tracks at Buffalo Bufff. I do not know whether the dogs can smell if the victim is in a car or not. I guess so if window is open. Did anyone confirm if Haleigh was in school that day? If so, when did she arrive home? Had to be close to after 3:30, due to the very long drive on the bus. School is about 7 Mi. from home....don't know how many stops bus makes.
I've wondered those same things, Whisperer;
Does anyone here know about the details of the scent dogs? Like if someone were carried, can their scent still be followed?
Also, I was wondering how long scent lingers, ....as for scent of a live person vs decomposition scent.
.
Emeralgem
03-31-2009, 02:42 PM
I've wondered those same things, Whisperer;
Does anyone here know about the details of the scent dogs? Like if someone were carried, can their scent still be followed?
Also, I was wondering how long scent lingers, ....as for scent of a live person vs decomposition scent.
.
I don't know but am going to try and find out...If you remember three dogs hit on that dumpster.. I'm thinking she was placed in that dumpster, and at some point, then removed..
TN tooting Misty's horn and praising her to high heaven is just further proof IMHO that she knows her son is somehow responsible or involved in Haleigh's disappearance..
No way considering everything that has been speculated upon and revealed would they be covering for Misty unless it was to save Ron C's rear-end..
I think the same thing, Emeralgem;
It sounds like they're placating Misty. She may be set up as the fall-guy, scapegoat or whatever when Ron et al throw her under the bus to take the heat off Ron. That idea of pawning the blame off totally on Misty will only work tho if she hasn't already rolled on Ron first; so they have every reason, imo, to keep her happy.... and quiet and sticking to the script --as best she's able (which hasn't been that great so far.)
Not that I think Misty is beyond being the sole guilty party, but if she were soley responsible Ron's behaviors would have been vastly different imo. That tells me she is not the main and only one, and that she's likely an accomplice, or she knows, or watched, or she is the helper as far as the cover story, or maybe she participated, IDK.
All I know is that I think they are lying. period. I don't know why; but there are only a few reasons for them to lie in a case like this and none of them are good.
I think Teresa and Sykes are in cover-Ron's-tushy mode too. I think they know and are truly devastated that Haleigh is gone, but instead of pursuing justice for the innocent party, their grandaughter (great grandaughter) they're trying to cut their loses by getting Ron off the hook - which, BTW, seems to have been a pattern with the enabler, Teresa, imo. Also, in geting Ron off the hook, they likely see the chance of losing custody of Jr as decreased. IOW, Haleigh is gone, so cut your loses and save Ron by not losing him to prison (or worse.) And save Jr. by not losing him to Crystal.
Also, I have to wonder what that custody judge would have said if Ron had notified the judge that Ron had decided to renege on his agreement with the judge to have his mother and grandmother as care-givers for the kids in his absence, and instead it would be a then 16 yr old full-time live-in paramour.
I know that Ron did not know Misty at the time of the custody agreement, but he still should have upheld his part of the agreement that his mother and grandmother would be the care-givers regardless of his relationship with Misty; or he should have notified the judge that he was not keeping the agreement as stated, and let the judge decide from there. But the judge was not given that opportunity.
Also, if Ron had been honest, like Crystal was, about his past drug use instead of lying in court, that would have been the fair thing to do. So essentially Crystal was punished for telling the truth.
.
Tom'sGirl
03-31-2009, 03:07 PM
This thread is getting off the Topic of Statement Analysis and drifting off into discussion of theories, general case discussion and other.
I don't know but am going to try and find out...If you remember three dogs hit on that dumpster.. I'm thinking she was placed in that dumpster, and at some point, then removed..
That whole display with the dumpster was just odd to me.
First, a dog (and especially three dogs... was it three?) don't often miss a hit do they? IOW, some trace of decomposition of someone... whoever... must have been in that dumpster at some point.
Also, we didn't hear much about it at all after that day with all the coverage.
And for me, the coverage itself was weird. It seemed... IDK. I mean I cant believe LE had not already been thru that whole dumpster and THEN called the media which makes me almost wonder if LE wanted it televised - for some reason - that they were searching the dumpster.
B/c it seems to me that they would never have the media there if that were their first real search; I mean think of the horror, if they found a bag and a body part rolled out.... on national TV! OMG.. HORRIBLE. The intense horror for the family... and everyone.
And they were throwing those bags around sort of carelessly and stompling all around. It just didn't look to me like a "real" effort as in ... they had already searched it and were just going thru the motions for the TV... for whatever reason.... to perhaps get someone to react... or panic... or run... or whatever?
MOO
.
Dr. Paul Ekman has written many articles and some books on such topics as statement analysis and the various subjects related to that like deception detection, reaading micro-expressions, etc.
So if you sleuthy sleuthers are "into" reading micro-expressions and want to test your skills, there's a little fun test below. Click the link at the bottom of this message and scroll down to see an image that looks like a TV screen with buttons 1 thru 10 and a choice of several emotions. Click 1 and a face pops up.... etc)
This test is different b/c all the verbal clues and hints from the face and body that we normally rely on are stripped away.
You have to solely rely on the face to do this test -- and that adds to the challenge.
For me I need the words, the body, the whole package and it is harder to just focus in on one.
OK, I will brag and tell you that I got them all right; But to be honest if I did NOT have that push-the-number-to-freeze-the-flash-frame, I probably would have been screwed. . :D
IOW, you see the face by initally pressing the number 1. Then a FLASH of another expression appears; then it goes back to the orignal frame.
When you then press the "1" on your keyboard it FREEZES that flashed exression for you. If I didn't have the freeze option, there's likely no way I wouldn't have gotten 10 out of 10. Jus sayin.
Also, FWIW, numbers 4 and 8 had me staring and puzzled before I decided on my choice.
See how you can do... Good luck! :-) . :woohoo:
(excerpt)
ADVANCED COMMUNICATIONS
Facial Expressions Test
How good are you at interpreting facial expressions? Take our test and find out. * By Meridith Levinson
Here is a brief quiz to test your ability to correctly identify the emotion behind facial expressions. To take the quiz, click a numbered button below to view images of individuals.
These images will change briefly to display an expression.
After the expression has flashed click on the word that describes the expression you have identitied.
If you were wrong, click on another word button until you are told you are right.
Here's the important part, after the expression has flashed, you press the corresponding numeric key on your keyboard to HOLD the expression on the screen.
This interactive graphic is based on "The Micro Expression Training Tool" developed by Paul Ekman, PH.D., a professor of psychology at the University of California Medical School in San Francisco.
Link to Facial Micro-expression Test
http://www.cio.com/article/facial-expressions-test
FWIW, Artherella mentioned Dr. Paul Ekman earlier; He's a world-renowned face-reading expert. He's studied the human face for most of his career which is something like 30 years.
Link: Dr. Paul Ekman: Cutting Edge Behavioral Science for Real World Applications
http://www.paulekman.com/
Just wondering... what are your biggest clues that someone is lying?
For me it's the choosing of what seem like weird words...saying things in a peculiar way. Also, it's when emotions or facial expressions don't seem to match what's being said.
Anyone feel free to add to the list BTW. :-)
* Weird word choices
* Facts or the story being inconsistent and changing
* Someone who looks too nervous for the situation at hand
* Body language (sometimes) looking around or down (depending on the person and situation)
* Someone who says, "Trust me..."
* Someone who says, "T0 be perfectly honest...." (not always)
* Facial expression or emotions that seem out of place or not matching the what's being said
* Changes from someone's usual demeanor or personality or typical characterisitcs
* Micro flashes of facial expressions
MOO :-)
Ron Cummings Gets Tattoo On 2/28/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMhfevtM9c
OUCH.. Ron in front fo the tattoo parlor:
RON: "Man, get outta my face.." 1:15 min
RON: "I can't be left alone; Nobody leaves me alone to do what I want to do; There's always a camera in my face." 1:24 min
.
snookie
03-31-2009, 05:55 PM
Also, I have to wonder what that custody judge would have said if Ron had notified the judge that Ron had decided to renege on his agreement with the judge to have his mother and grandmother as care-givers for the kids in his absence, and instead it would be a then 16 yr old full-time live-in paramour.
I know that Ron did not know Misty at the time of the custody agreement, but he still should have upheld his part of the agreement that his mother and grandmother would be the care-givers regardless of his relationship with Misty; or he should have notified the judge that he was not keeping the agreement as stated, and let the judge decide from there. But the judge was not given that opportunity.(respectfully snipped.... though your whole post is excellent)
Exactly!! The judge would have never gone for the 16/17 year old live-in arrangement.
snookie
03-31-2009, 05:57 PM
Ron Cummings Gets Tattoo On 2/28/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMhfevtM9c
OUCH.. Ron in front fo the tattoo parlor:
RON: "Man, get outta my face.." 1:15 min
RON: "I can't be left alone; Nobody leaves me alone to do what I want to do; There's always a camera in my face." 1:24 min
.I take that to mean..... "I can't even have privacy enough to go get my buzz on."
MOO
Skully
03-31-2009, 06:03 PM
Just wondering... what are your biggest clues that someone is lying?
For me it's the choosing of what seem like weird words...saying things in a peculiar way. Also, it's when emotions or facial expressions don't seem to match what's being said.
Anyone feel free to add to the list BTW. :-)
* Weird word choices
* Facts or the story being inconsistent and changing
* Someone who looks too nervous for the situation at hand
* Body language (sometimes) looking around or down (depending on the person and situation)
* Someone who says, "Trust me..."
* Someone who says, "T0 be perfectly honest...." (not always)
* Facial expression or emotions that seem out of place or not matching the what's being said
* Changes from someone's usual demeanor or personality or typical characterisitcs
* Micro flashes of facial expressions
MOO :-)
* Eyes look up and away when about to answer
* Rubbing the eye as a distraction
* Laughing, it is usually nerves
* Fidgeting or leg bouncing
* A forced cough
* Ummmm, or pausing too long to think of the answer
Indigo
03-31-2009, 06:03 PM
Try your hand at interpreting micro expressions with this online quiz. Informative and fun! Then go back and watch the case videos with your sound off...
http://www.cio.com/article/facial-expressions-test
OrdinaryLife
03-31-2009, 07:25 PM
Ron Cummings Gets Tattoo On 2/28/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMhfevtM9c
OUCH.. Ron in front fo the tattoo parlor:
RON: "Man, get outta my face.." 1:15 min
RON: "I can't be left alone; Nobody leaves me alone to do what I want to do; There's always a camera in my face." 1:24 min
.
O.M.G. This is a grieving father getting pissed off because "nobody leaves me alone to do; There's always a camera in my face."
Please, if we are going to do an analysis of just this one comment, it would not be one of positive nor in the benefit of a parent. Seriously, I do not expect any person not to try and have what life they can when their child is missing. But, this??? Soooo wrong. So wrong on every level. Wouldn't you WANT to be in the medias face for your missing child??? Grab every possible chance to do so??? It's about your 5 year old daughter!!!! I cannot even tell you what person I would be like if this were me. I would be in the medias face, dammit! Sure as heck would not be in front of a tattoo parlor.....
Ugh...
stilettos
03-31-2009, 07:31 PM
O.M.G. This is a grieving father getting pissed off because "nobody leaves me alone to do; There's always a camera in my face."
Please, if we are going to do an analysis of just this one comment, it would not be one of positive nor in the benefit of a parent. Seriously, I do not expect any person not to try and have what life they can when their child is missing. But, this??? Soooo wrong. So wrong on every level. Wouldn't you WANT to be in the medias face for your missing child??? Grab every possible chance to do so??? It's about your 5 year old daughter!!!! I cannot even tell you what person I would be like if this were me. I would be in the medias face, dammit! Sure as heck would not be in front of a tattoo parlor.....
Ugh...
Not to mention the info that his convo was not about finding Haleigh when inside but about the money he was making off her back.
stilettos
03-31-2009, 07:34 PM
(respectfully snipped.... though your whole post is excellent)
Exactly!! The judge would have never gone for the 16/17 year old live-in arrangement.
Nope, most Family Court judges frown on granting custody to men who commit illegal sexual contact with a minor which is felonious behavior.
Indigo
03-31-2009, 09:26 PM
Just wondering... what are your biggest clues that someone is lying?
For me it's the choosing of what seem like weird words...saying things in a peculiar way. Also, it's when emotions or facial expressions don't seem to match what's being said.
Anyone feel free to add to the list BTW. :-)
* Weird word choices
* Facts or the story being inconsistent and changing
* Someone who looks too nervous for the situation at hand
* Body language (sometimes) looking around or down (depending on the person and situation)
* Someone who says, "Trust me..."
* Someone who says, "T0 be perfectly honest...." (not always)
* Facial expression or emotions that seem out of place or not matching the what's being said
* Changes from someone's usual demeanor or personality or typical characterisitcs
* Micro flashes of facial expressions
MOO :-)
Awesome list, kant! Thank you. Here are a few more things that can be tip offs:
* Stopping midsentence/midword to rephrase (the first choice is usually the more truthful)
* Use of phrases like "that's all I know" or " I have no idea"
* Use of spanning words which indicate a chunk of time is missing from the story ("later," "the next thing I remember,"etc.)
* Adding a lot of extra information that has no purpose other than to explain away evidence or to set up an alibi.
* Words and actions that don't match over time--actions always speak louder than words.
Searchfortruth
04-01-2009, 01:17 AM
Two to add,
While recounting a story that occured in the past, the person uses present tense language, this could be just a sentence in the story, but it usually means the person is making it up as they go along rather than relying on truthful past memory.
Answering a question with a question, ie; detective asks suspect what time he left work, suspect answers with, what time did I leave work ? Sometimes means the person answering is stalling for time.
Searchfortruth
04-01-2009, 12:53 PM
I must say, I LOVE this thread...!!!
I am no expert, but do enjoy reading about statement analysis, different techniques used to detect deception. Just watching this NG show where RC appeared. Parts of this show and the very first time he appeared on camera, the shutting of the eyes while talking about the "abduction", bothered me. It may mean nothing at all, I don't think I have read about this being any indicator of deception. So to the more knowledgeable, is this a sign of possible deception...the shutting of the eyes ? I noticed that Misty did it also during parts of her interview, specifically the one where she is sitting by her mother.
Searchfortruth
04-01-2009, 01:40 PM
I started a thread on the Caylee forum like this, I hope that it's allright. I used some of the links that were provided by Kant, I hope that is ok too...?
Indigo
04-01-2009, 01:51 PM
I started a thread on the Caylee forum like this, I hope that it's allright. I used some of the links that were provided by Kant, I hope that is ok too...?
You get my vote, Searchfortruth! I'm so happy to see these valid techniques are finally getting some attention--all thanks to kant.
Caution: Once you start using these methods you'll be addicted to words! :biggrin:
Searchfortruth
04-01-2009, 02:02 PM
You get my vote, Searchfortruth! I'm so happy to see these valid techniques are finally getting some attention--all thanks to kant.
Caution: Once you start using these methods you'll be addicted to words! :biggrin:It's so so interesting isn't it ? I had only read MM's site on statement analysis, didn't know about the others that Kant has provided, but I am hooked ! Now with KC it may be easier to pick out the truths as opposed to the lies, because the truths are few and far between !
Emeralgem
04-01-2009, 02:05 PM
I must say, I LOVE this thread...!!!
I am no expert, but do enjoy reading about statement analysis, different techniques used to detect deception. Just watching this NG show where RC appeared. Parts of this show and the very first time he appeared on camera, the shutting of the eyes while talking about the "abduction", bothered me. It may mean nothing at all, I don't think I have read about this being any indicator of deception. So to the more knowledgeable, is this a sign of possible deception...the shutting of the eyes ? I noticed that Misty did it also during parts of her interview, specifically the one where she is sitting by her mother.
http://empa7hy.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/body-language-of-the-eyes/
Closing
Closing the eyes shuts out the world. This can mean ‘I do not want to see what is in front of me, it is so terrible’.
Sometimes when people are talking they close their eyes. This is an equivalent to turning away so eye contact can be avoided and any implied request for the other person to speak is effectively ignored.
Visual thinkers may also close their eyes, sometimes when talking, so they can better see the internal images without external distraction.
Searchfortruth
04-01-2009, 02:20 PM
http://empa7hy.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/body-language-of-the-eyes/
Closing
Closing the eyes shuts out the world. This can mean ‘I do not want to see what is in front of me, it is so terrible’.
Sometimes when people are talking they close their eyes. This is an equivalent to turning away so eye contact can be avoided and any implied request for the other person to speak is effectively ignored.
Visual thinkers may also close their eyes, sometimes when talking, so they can better see the internal images without external distraction.Thank you Emeralgem ! This is very interesting !
Emeralgem
04-01-2009, 02:30 PM
You are welcome..
Caution: Once you start using these methods you'll be addicted to words! :biggrin:
WORD NERDS UNITE!
(Sorry; couldn't resist)
:D
sunflowerchick
04-02-2009, 01:48 AM
Hmmm. So I have to say this thread has been really interesting to say the least, and after reading some of the articles, I have to say I am changing my mind about MC.
I am specifically disturbed by the 911 call analysis, and how many indicators there are in the call that MC made. I have always thought that they were telling the truth for the most part, but now I really question that. These articles are from people who are trained in criminal behavior, so I am going on the assumption that they know better than I do.
I still think that most of this stuff applies more to MC than to RC though, so I am on the fence about him.
(OT) I am also starting to think that given the length of time that has past, it is less likely that a stranger took her or I think more tips would be coming in, not less. I think at this point that the PD should go back and start analyzing some of these statements, (if they haven't already), because unfortunately, I am starting to think something happened to Haleigh. :eek:
Whisperer
04-02-2009, 04:50 AM
Sorry to repeat but think it should be considered when we read the statement.
Concerning the hound dogs stopping at the RR tracks..that is coincidently the bus stop. Also if you notice in the original statement there is a sentence blocked out. I found on another form that it said "they continued on Tyler past Chelsea's house....for some reason the LE blocked it out...maybe they didn't want for should not place a name on the statement is all I can reason.
Searchfortruth
04-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Interview: WJXT/news4jax w/Misty C. on February 12, 2009
Background: Misty is sitting next to her mother (Lisa)
Watch Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTl4PUY6o_E
Key;
IQ = Interviewer’s question
MA = Misty’s answer
MM = Misty’s mom
Begin;
IQ: I can’t even imagine at my age going thru this.
MM: It’s horrible.
MA: It’s very horrible, very.
IQ: Did you hear anything?
MA: (Shaking head no) I didn’t hear anything at all, nothing. If I heard something I would have got up and I wouldn’t have let em’ take her.
IQ: So, so what happened?
MA: Okay, I put her to bed about, you know eight o’clock cause that’s her bedtime when she had school. I put her to bed and, and her blanket and my blanket, my blanket was in the van that they took so we had a blanket hanging on the window and I had to wash that and her blanket, her blanket, she had peed on it that night before I guess and I was gonna put it on her but it smelled like pee so I washed her blanket and I gave her a little sheet to cover up with and she fell asleep and I come in there and put her blanket on her and than I laid down and it was about, I mean I’m not positive what time it was, about three you know. I seen three o’clock in the morning. I got up and I got up cause I had to use the bathroom. I seen the kitchen light on and I walked in the kitchen and the backdoor was wide open. I mean, I didn’t notice about Haleigh that then until I seen the back door open and then I go back in (unintelligible) and she’s gone and that’s all I know cause when I woke up, went I went to sleep she was there and then when I woke up, she was gone.
IQ: What has that been like for you?
MA: I mean it’s been hard but I’m trying to do everything to find her you know, answer any questions I have to cause I know I didn’t do anything wit – to that little girl. I would never hurt her. I mean they love me, they love; I mean they look at me like their mom you know. Umm you guys (unintelligible), he’ll tell you, they talk about me and I’m so good to the kids, real good.
IQ: So, so you woke up and that was it, you saw the door open, did you leave the light on or did (Misty interrupts with answer)
MA: No I the (Interviewer finishes question)
IQ: they turned the light on?
MA: The lights had to get turned on cause I know them lights, I was in the hallway where the backdoor is, the dryers is right there. I was washing clothes and that backdoor was shut I mean, you know and I just wake up and it’s open.
IQ: Did you take a polygram? (I heard “polygram” but could possibly be mistaken – “polygraph” is the obvious meaning)
MA: Umm I did but I’m not supposed to talk about that. They told me not to talk about it.
IQ: But you did?
MA: Yes I did take a polygraph.
IQ: And you passed it?
MA: I mean it’s my understanding that I passed it.
IQ: What do you want people to know?
MA: I just want everybody to know that I didn’t do anything with that little girl. I loved her like she was my own and I’ll do anything to get her back and if people think I had something to do with it , if I had something to do with it, if I knew where she was, we wouldn’t be sitting here today, we would have her and I don’t know where she is.
End.This may be nothing at all, but I remember Casey saying the same exact thing to investigators and family right after Caylee went missing...
This was said my Misty...
"if I knew where she was, we wouldn’t be sitting here today"
Searchfortruth
04-02-2009, 12:54 PM
Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?
The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?I don't get why Misty was the one to call in the first place since the biological father was already home, it seems to me he should have been talking to the 911 dispatcher fom the beginning. I guess her reference to Haleigh being "her daughter" could have been to lend her credibility ? After watching the links Kant gave us about 911 callers and innocent vs. the guilty, I like this 911 call placed by Misty and Ron even less.
seekeroftruth
04-02-2009, 01:56 PM
This thread has been very informative! Thanks Kant! It only reinforces what I've thought all along.... That 911 call always sounded fake to me.
Gaia713
04-02-2009, 03:17 PM
Good point, Kolokolo;
Also, who (or rather, what innocent person) starts their 911 call with an alibi??
Sheesh.
Is it an alibi or just an attempt to show what was happening? People are not always in full control when they call 911 in an emergency.
Searchfortruth
04-02-2009, 04:37 PM
I am just listening to the 911 call again and the first time Ron gets on the phone with the dispatcher is 3 minutes into the call. The first thing he says is "I just got home from work and my five year old daughter is gone, I need someone to be here now, I'm telling you if I find whoever has my daughter before ya'll do I'm killing them, I don't care, I'll spend the rest of my life in prison, I don't care.You can put it on recording I don't care" This is 3 minutes into the 911 call, during those 3 minutes Ron is walking around talking about how could his gf have let someone steal his daughter...we don't hear him yelling Haleigh's name, rather we hear him blaming the 17 year old and threatening the "person" who took his daughter and contemplating spending the rest of his life in prison ? He is also thinking about the fact that 911 calls are recorded, where in this parent's mind should there have been thoughts of calls being recorded and him "catching" the person who did this...The following was copied from the link provided by Kant, "911 Calls and Statement Analysis".
"Forty-four percent of the 911 homicide callers included extraneous information in their call. Of those, 96 percent were guilty of the offense, and only 4 percent were innocent. Extraneous information was the strongest indicator of guilt in the study."
http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/articles/sa_june08leb.pdf
Then in that first very emotional interview of Ron crying, going down to the ground, upset over his daughter being missing, he says, "I would give my life for my childs life back". I thought this was a telling statement.
On Greta's interview with Ron and Misty, Misty looks scared to death and more like Ronald's daughter than a girlfriend. When she does speak her story sounds rehearsed, like she's reading it from a script. There is no emotion included in the story, although they both look nervous, Ron especially, if there is only one truth to be told there should be no nervousness about telling the story. You would expect emotions to come up when retelling a true horrific event from memory, their retelling of the story includes no emotions one would normally expect. In short, their nervousness seems to come from getting the story straight instead of from the actual memory of the event.
kolokolo
04-02-2009, 05:17 PM
Is it an alibi or just an attempt to show what was happening? People are not always in full control when they call 911 in an emergency.
I guess I cant get past the 911 call ... the call by Misty, the first thing she sez is "Hi".
I am no expert by any means, but the "Hi" greeting or whatever you wanna call it, sounds to me like she was in control ... JMHO
I want to add for clarification, the audio sounds like she sez "Ummm", I thought I read the transcript that states she sez "Hi." I could be wrong!
Here it is: Read The 911 Transcript: Part 1
http://cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/200...pt_part_1.html
KR2tonenow
04-02-2009, 05:48 PM
* Eyes look up and away when about to answer
* Rubbing the eye as a distraction
* Laughing, it is usually nerves
* Fidgeting or leg bouncing
* A forced cough
* Ummmm, or pausing too long to think of the answer
With Ron, I noticed when he was on Nancy Grace the last time he was snigging his nose alot, what came to my mind was a drug habit.
Charla
04-02-2009, 05:48 PM
This is a little off topic but not really...Has anyone heard Nadya Suleman's 911 call when she THOUGHT her son was missing? The contrast between her out of control screaming and threats to kill HERSELF and Ron/Misty's relatively calm and threats to kill someone else---is enlightening, IMO...
Charla
04-02-2009, 05:49 PM
With Ron, I noticed when he was on Nancy Grace the last time he was snigging his nose alot, what came to my mind was a drug habit.
Or maybe, just maybe, allergies? lol
Is it an alibi or just an attempt to show what was happening? People are not always in full control when they call 911 in an emergency.
I see your point, Gaia713; But when TRENDS or NORMS, or PATTERNS, etc are observed, more times than not... certain things indicate deception.
It is not "proof;" it is a tool indicating a likelihood based on norms of examined cases with known outcomes.
.
Gracenote
04-02-2009, 07:02 PM
I guess I cant get past the 911 call ... the call by Misty, the first thing she sez is "Hi".
I am no expert by any means, but the "Hi" greeting or whatever you wanna call it, sounds to me like she was in control ... JMHO
I want to add for clarification, the audio sounds like she sez "Ummm", I thought I read the transcript that states she sez "Hi." I could be wrong!
Here it is: Read The 911 Transcript: Part 1
http://cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/200...pt_part_1.html
I wonder if she has ever had to call 911 before. I did the first time at 13 when my father was dying and too many times since (I am old now) but it can be a little intimidating. Maybe she didn't know what to expect.
moonlighting
04-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Hmmm. So I have to say this thread has been really interesting to say the least, and after reading some of the articles, I have to say I am changing my mind about MC.
I am specifically disturbed by the 911 call analysis, and how many indicators there are in the call that MC made. I have always thought that they were telling the truth for the most part, but now I really question that. These articles are from people who are trained in criminal behavior, so I am going on the assumption that they know better than I do.
I still think that most of this stuff applies more to MC than to RC though, so I am on the fence about him.
(OT) I am also starting to think that given the length of time that has past, it is less likely that a stranger took her or I think more tips would be coming in, not less. I think at this point that the PD should go back and start analyzing some of these statements, (if they haven't already), because unfortunately, I am starting to think something happened to Haleigh. :eek:
SFC,
I still can't get over RC's behavior in the GVS interview. What do you see after reading the info on this thread?
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3567692&referralPlaylistId=playlist
Whisperer
04-03-2009, 01:20 AM
Misty acts like a puppet/child. She looks barely 12. One thing about young girls of her age....they take notice to what people are wearing, they are good with details of appearances, etc.....much better than adults. She doesn’t lack these skills, In fact that is most likely one of her best skills. She should have good recall on exactly what Haleigh was wearing and how she was acting.
I suggest that the mattress was in front of the TV and NOT where they showed us on the tape. That place was bare bones and stripped and cleaned as much as possible for the media. Furniture and beds were moved. IRRC, NT cleaned and arranged. Misty doesn't know the difference between 3 inches and 4 feet away...? not buying that one! How does RC get to know all the details when as he always says, "I was at work". MC appears drugged on the tape. Now, Ron….instead of being VERY angry with Misty, that would be normal…he looked relaxed and focused and was helping MC get through the interview with the least amount of damage. They talk about the door again. Let's face it folks, if the door was as tough as he said and "absolutely" locked as he said, then no stranger came through that door....
Misty is lying about the door, the bed, the time and possible the place. Ron insists Haleigh was stolen. He doesn't scream out for Haleigh. He is not outside knocking on doors and asking neighbors if they heard anything or saw a strange car.
If a stranger or anyone entered the BR to abduct Haleigh as they claim, he would have had to really stoop down(the mattress is on the floor) and his posterior/back would have been on or near Misty's bed. Haleigh would have made a commotion to be lifted up from the floor and MC would likely be disturbed by the noise.
Both of them and the media keep leading us to the back door. Why couldn't the person have entered the front door? Neither of these two have even suggested it...odd! It is as if the script says.....a stranger "stole" Haleigh because the back door was open....had to be...according to them and they are sticking with it.
He uses the words, "I was at work" ....waaaaaaaay to frequently. From the first words out of his mouth to 911 to every media outlet....sounds like he is trying to divert any attention away from him right off the bat. MC uses the words always, "I put her to bed at 8:00pm (because that is her bedtime and she has school) ad nauseum....as if Haleigh went to school regularly...LOL. If MC put her to bed, why doesn't she recall what she was wearing? If she put her to bed and the bed was wet, why was she put to bed in the wet bed. It would be logical to put her in the big bed till the other was cleaned. This entire day needs to be revisited.
The story they are telling us can not be true. No stranger came through the back door and stole his child while JR and Misty were in the bed….didn’t happen.
txsvicki
04-03-2009, 01:49 AM
I think Misti gives out signals in interviews with her appearance and speech. She has talked gangsta style when defending herself and that hairdo she had when on Good Morning America was something else. If Misti wants to be with Ron, who doesn't speak that way or look like a different culture, why is she talking and looking like she's with a different type guy altogether, someone like WBG.......
Charla
04-03-2009, 02:41 AM
...snipped...
He uses the words, "I was at work" ....waaaaaaaay to frequently. From the first words out of his mouth to 911 to every media outlet....sounds like he is trying to divert any attention away from him right off the bat.
The story they are telling us can not be true. No stranger came through the back door and stole his child while JR and Misty were in the bed….didn’t happen.
Makes me wonder if something maybe happened before he went to work, and the timeline they are giving us is one that conveniently provides him an alibi of work, and Misty an alibi of supposedly sleeping...hmmm
Charla
04-03-2009, 02:48 AM
I think Misti gives out signals in interviews with her appearance and speech. She has talked gangsta style when defending herself and that hairdo she had when on Good Morning America was something else. If Misti wants to be with Ron, who doesn't speak that way or look like a different culture, why is she talking and looking like she's with a different type guy altogether, someone like WBG.......
I find myself wondering what you mean, like what exactly did she say that was "gangsta?" Also, how do we know that Ron does not have a similar dialect/way of speaking or similar mannerisms when he is not in front of the camera?
Whisperer
04-03-2009, 02:58 AM
Hi Charla,
I have been harping about that timeline forever and a day....lol
No reporter asks, "What time did you leave the house, Ron?"
No reporter asks, "What are your regular working hours, Ron?"
He told a pastor at a vigil that he worked his 8 hr shift, came home and found his daughter gone. If he worked an 8 hr shift, he would be home at 12:00/1230am.
He could have been at work.....but what hours? What was he and MC doing all weekend?....no information. We heard about a gun and a fight occurring either that day or day before. Look at his knuckles in the very first video where he is holding the PIC......all knuckles of entire fist on right hand are cut or braised.....that was some fight!
RC has extremely poor judgment and is very impulsive. Who knows what this guy is really like? He carries a 9mm Berreta...hmmmmm
Does he deal drugs? Does he make drugs? Does MC deal or deliver drugs or something else? It is all a blank and I would like to have it filled in because I am convinced it has to do with the disappearance of Haleigh.
Charla
04-03-2009, 03:02 AM
Hi Charla,
I have been harping about that timeline forever and a day....lol
No reporter asks, "What time did you leave the house, Ron?"
No reporter asks, "What are your regular working hours, Ron?"
He told a pastor at a vigil that he worked his 8 hr shift, came home and found his daughter gone. If he worked an 8 hr shift, he would be home at 12:00/1230am.
He could have been at work.....but what hours? What was he and MC doing all weekend?....no information. We heard about a gun and a fight occurring either that day or day before. Look at his knuckles in the very first video where he is holding the PIC......all knuckles of entire fist on right hand are cut or braised.....that was some fight!
RC has extremely poor judgment and is very impulsive. Who knows what this guy is really like?
I am sure LE has the timeline, I just wish they would tell us!!! LE has probably analyzed cell phone records to get what towers RC may have been hitting, etc. This situation seems too improbable, which leads me to believe it did not happen the way MC/RCsays it did.
Whisperer
04-03-2009, 03:15 AM
There is one way to sleuth this case...if we could talk to someone at HR at RC's employment and ask what the regular shifts are for crane or forklift operators and see if it is 4 to 12 etc. ...and do they have regular 12 hr shifts, also, is there much overtime.
Since we have no facts, that is all I can think we can do to obtain any info. Everything else is speculation. LE has not cleared either of them so that tells us their stories do not add up. You are correct.
DotsEyes
04-03-2009, 07:02 AM
I still don't buy MC doing anything to hurt Haleigh. Or Ron.
The information on 911 calls is very interesting.
I've called 911 and said "Hi", or "Yes", when the operator answered. I wasn't calling in a homicide, but neither were Ron and MC.
radio
04-03-2009, 07:24 AM
There is one way to sleuth this case...if we could talk to someone at HR at RC's employment and ask what the regular shifts are for crane or forklift operators and see if it is 4 to 12 etc. ...and do they have regular 12 hr shifts, also, is there much overtime.
Since we have no facts, that is all I can think we can do to obtain any info. Everything else is speculation. LE has not cleared either of them so that tells us their stories do not add up. You are correct.
:thumb:Whisperer - you just said it ALL~~~~
If only someone would say what hours Ronald Cummings was at work!!!!
No one will. No one!!! Hinky!!!
Searchfortruth
04-03-2009, 10:23 AM
I guess I cant get past the 911 call ... the call by Misty, the first thing she sez is "Hi".
I am no expert by any means, but the "Hi" greeting or whatever you wanna call it, sounds to me like she was in control ... JMHO
I want to add for clarification, the audio sounds like she sez "Ummm", I thought I read the transcript that states she sez "Hi." I could be wrong!
Here it is: Read The 911 Transcript: Part 1
http://cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/200...pt_part_1.htmlI have trouble getting past the 911 call as well, it reminds me of another, 911 call, in Florida, where the person responsible for the crime didn't want to initiate the call for help either.
snookie
04-03-2009, 11:22 AM
I agree with Whisperer. The way Ron and Misty always repeat the same robotic phrases is *off*:
"I don't know, I was at work", "I was asleep", and "That's all I know" -- cop outs
"I put her to bed at 8 because she has school" -- ya see, Misty's such a responsible lil mommy!
"My daughter was a well mannered child, very well behaved" -- As if he's trying to convince us Haleigh was such a good little girl, he'd neeever need to lose his temper with her or go overboard with the discipline. Then he goes on to tell us how DCF told him the appropriate way to discipline.... so apparently it's been an issue. Something's stinky with that. imo
Then there's Misty's constant babble of all the blanket washing.... "blankets, blankets, BLANKETS!!!"
And what's up with all her eye closing at the beginning? Seems really odd to say the least.
I find myself wondering what you mean, like what exactly did she say that was "gangsta?" Also, how do we know that Ron does not have a similar dialect/way of speaking or similar mannerisms when he is not in front of the camera?JMO, but..... I think Ron probably thinks he's Eminem or something. :crazy:
I have very little right this minute that I could effectively add to this thread other than an exuberant "WELL DONE!!!"
In the GVS interview here;
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3567692&referralPlaylistId=playlist
I noted that GVS has asked MC "What is Haleigh like?" and at 7:46 RC turns to MC, places his hand over his microphone and says "look at the camera" :waitasec: she responds "I am".
Why is he stage directing?
BetsyB
04-04-2009, 09:06 AM
:thumb:Whisperer - you just said it ALL~~~~
If only someone would say what hours Ronald Cummings was at work!!!!
No one will. No one!!! Hinky!!!Maybe they're lulling MC and RC into complacency--the better to eventually elicit information they need to charge and convict.
In the GVS interview here;
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3567692&referralPlaylistId=playlist
I noted that GVS has asked MC "What is Haleigh like?" and at 7:46 RC turns to MC, places his hand over his microphone and says "look at the camera" :waitasec: she responds "I am".
Why is he stage directing?
This made the hair on my neck stand up. He is a scary man.
Below is a link to the police report. Scroll down to "Additional Info" and see the 3rd paragraph where Misty tells the officer that:
....she got up to get a drink
...noticed Haleigh was gone,
...went to look for Haleigh and then noticed the door was open.
How many versions are there now?
Police Report Link
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf
.
Probably mentioned somewhere else, but the police report has Haleigh listed as a Male.
Has Crystal's age as 19 (DOB 8/30/89)
No foul play suspected is a notation on one of the pages.
Teresa Neves appeared on the scene after the officer had talked to Ron and after he had talked to Misty. In her statement to the media, she makes it seem as though she flew through space to get there by 3:30.
I had put this in the rumor thread b/c Ron's interviewing issues were being discused there, but I'm pasting it here.
Anyway, Dr. Paul Ekman is an expert in deception detection among other things and found 50 people who have this really nearly perfect ability to spot liars. They are the sort of Mozarts of lie detection. :) Anyway below is what one had to say about Ron's way of answering questions since the conversation here was going in that direction. In the meantime I will look for the correspnding video clip.
Thoughts on Ronald Cummings on Nancy Grace
"What is so fascinating about this appearance is that Ronald Cummings isn't on the defensive like he usually is. He is fine with everyone tightening the reins on Misty, and ironically, that doesn't seem to bother him at all. His posture is relaxed, and his hands are splayed in front of him in a calm manner.
But what is even more interesting is that you would expect Cummings of all people, here to be the most perplexed, mad and concerned about Misty's inconsistencies, if he is innocent and uninvolved, but he isn't!
Cummings, like everyone else, should want to know why there are inconsistencies. He should be all over them like a wet blanket, so he can get to the truth, but he isn't. Instead, he marries Misty and acts like it isn't his concern or worry that she is inconsistent. This behavior does not support honesty. Is that because he already knows the answers?
Throughout the interview, Cummings is feeling positive emotions. He almost has a "glow" about him. I can't quite put my fingers on it, but it is palpable. He is on the edge, at times, of breaking into a smile. He clearly tries several times to hold it back.
I captured this image below when he said "no" at one point.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mDF6yP52d_c/Sb_KN_pwr7I/AAAAAAAACG0/XQ1aIXfyfkY/s320/ronald+positive+emotions.jpg
You try saying "no" when you are serious. Your lips don't curl up like this (see above). He is saying no and smiling very faintly at the same time. To move your lips upward like this when you feel serious and say no is very awkward to do, unless you are feeling a positive emotion.
Nancy Grace starts out by asking Cummings what Misty originally told him regarding their sleeping arrangements that night with respect to Haleigh. Notice how Ronald does what is considered a "false start"? Cummings starts talking, then stops and changes his direction.
Cummings says, "She told me that she was sleeping in the beh..., um, her and junior were sleeping in my queen size bed and that she was sleeping in the tot bed beside her..."This is quite telling. I suspect he was going to said "bed" above, but stopped mid-sentence.
Was he going to say that she was sleeping in the bed with Junior and Haleigh? When Cummings says the words"beside her," he makes an expression of doubt with his lips and squints his eyes. He pulls his lips up on one side, like when some people say, "I don't know."
He continues with more expressions of doubt when he says, "...three or four feet beside her, or whatever." He squints his eyes like he is trying to recollect this, and his lips move to the opposite side this time, which is unusual for this type of memory, which should be concrete because he has talked about it so many times, if he is telling the truth.
Grace asked how everything got so mis-communicated about where Haleigh slept, and when Cummings replies, the very first few words he says, he has the slightest smirk on his face, "Ms. Nancy, I have no, no answer for you. I don't know how it was mis-communicated."
Grace goes on to ask if Misty told the police that Haleigh was in a separate bed, to which Cummings replies, "I wasn't there when she was questioned by police, Ms. Nancy." At the end of that comment, you can clearly see a grin on his face. It's subtle but definitely there.
Grace than asks why Misty didn't call the police immediately when she realized Haleigh was missing. Notice Cummings doesn't answer the question, and Grace never calls him on it! Instead, he just goes into what I could call a rote speech about the events of that night. He repeats what he has repeated a thousand times.
Also, notice how Cummings' voice inflection changes? All the inflection in his voice disappears, and he talks as if he is drone, just recollecting data. He has no emotions whatsoever.
Why doesn't Cummings feel any emotions about that devastating night? He should feel tremendous pain and anguish when thinking about the realization that his daughter is missing, or at least feeling fear, or worry he experienced that night, but he doesn't.
It's a huge red flag.
He also gets nervous, and starts wiggling in his leg again. Why is he nervous when he talks about this?
Notice he feels nervousness, but he does not feel any emotions when it comes to his daughter?
That's a huge red flag.
Do you also notice how Cummings said he turned the house upside down, and then told Misty to call 911? Why didn't he ever look outside? Isn't that odd? Misty said the front door was propped wide open. Why wouldn't he start canvassing the neighborhood while Misty called police? It's just another inconsistency in his story.
Clearly, what we should be seeing in Cummings, such as serious questions for Misty, if he is truly uninvolved in Haleigh's disappearance, are not present, and worse, he is showing signs of positive emotions, which absolutely make no sense whatsoever."
.
yosande
04-09-2009, 05:07 PM
Probably mentioned somewhere else, but the police report has Haleigh listed as a Male.
Has Crystal's age as 19 (DOB 8/30/89)
No foul play suspected is a notation on one of the pages.
Teresa Neves appeared on the scene after the officer had talked to Ron and after he had talked to Misty. In her statement to the media, she makes it seem as though she flew through space to get there by 3:30.
Correction, after the officer attempted to talk to Ron. He was too emotional to answer any questions. ie he continued his ranting threatening manner, so the officer was unable to get any information from just like the 911 dispatch operator. Ask him a question and he comes back with "I don't f***ing know, I was at work!" or "I don't f***ing" care, just find her!" to simple questions like what was she wearing, and when is her birthday.
He continues to give little to no information. He is evasive, denying anything and everything, and his pleas for his daughter sound practiced and ungenuine. imo...
yosande
04-09-2009, 05:18 PM
I had put this in the rumor thread b/c Ron's interviewing issues were being discused there, but I'm pasting it here.
Anyway, Dr. Paul Ekman is an expert in deception detection among other things and found 50 people who have this really nearly perfect ability to spot liars. They are the sort of Mozarts of lie detection. :) Anyway below is what one had to say about Ron's way of answering questions since the conversation here was going in that direction. In the meantime I will look for the correspnding video clip.
Thoughts on Ronald Cummings on Nancy Grace
"What is so fascinating about this appearance is that Ronald Cummings isn't on the defensive like he usually is. He is fine with everyone tightening the reins on Misty, and ironically, that doesn't seem to bother him at all. His posture is relaxed, and his hands are splayed in front of him in a calm manner.
But what is even more interesting is that you would expect Cummings of all people, here to be the most perplexed, mad and concerned about Misty's inconsistencies, if he is innocent and uninvolved, but he isn't!
Cummings, like everyone else, should want to know why there are inconsistencies. He should be all over them like a wet blanket, so he can get to the truth, but he isn't. Instead, he marries Misty and acts like it isn't his concern or worry that she is inconsistent. This behavior does not support honesty. Is that because he already knows the answers?
Throughout the interview, Cummings is feeling positive emotions. He almost has a "glow" about him. I can't quite put my fingers on it, but it is palpable. He is on the edge, at times, of breaking into a smile. He clearly tries several times to hold it back.
I captured this image below when he said "no" at one point.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mDF6yP52d_c/Sb_KN_pwr7I/AAAAAAAACG0/XQ1aIXfyfkY/s320/ronald+positive+emotions.jpg
You try saying "no" when you are serious. Your lips don't curl up like this (see above). He is saying no and smiling very faintly at the same time. To move your lips upward like this when you feel serious and say no is very awkward to do, unless you are feeling a positive emotion.
Nancy Grace starts out by asking Cummings what Misty originally told him regarding their sleeping arrangements that night with respect to Haleigh. Notice how Ronald does what is considered a "false start"? Cummings starts talking, then stops and changes his direction.
Cummings says, "She told me that she was sleeping in the beh..., um, her and junior were sleeping in my queen size bed and that she was sleeping in the tot bed beside her..."This is quite telling. I suspect he was going to said "bed" above, but stopped mid-sentence.
Was he going to say that she was sleeping in the bed with Junior and Haleigh? When Cummings says the words"beside her," he makes an expression of doubt with his lips and squints his eyes. He pulls his lips up on one side, like when some people say, "I don't know."
He continues with more expressions of doubt when he says, "...three or four feet beside her, or whatever." He squints his eyes like he is trying to recollect this, and his lips move to the opposite side this time, which is unusual for this type of memory, which should be concrete because he has talked about it so many times, if he is telling the truth.
Grace asked how everything got so mis-communicated about where Haleigh slept, and when Cummings replies, the very first few words he says, he has the slightest smirk on his face, "Ms. Nancy, I have no, no answer for you. I don't know how it was mis-communicated."
Grace goes on to ask if Misty told the police that Haleigh was in a separate bed, to which Cummings replies, "I wasn't there when she was questioned by police, Ms. Nancy." At the end of that comment, you can clearly see a grin on his face. It's subtle but definitely there.
Grace than asks why Misty didn't call the police immediately when she realized Haleigh was missing. Notice Cummings doesn't answer the question, and Grace never calls him on it! Instead, he just goes into what I could call a rote speech about the events of that night. He repeats what he has repeated a thousand times.
Also, notice how Cummings' voice inflection changes? All the inflection in his voice disappears, and he talks as if he is drone, just recollecting data. He has no emotions whatsoever.
Why doesn't Cummings feel any emotions about that devastating night? He should feel tremendous pain and anguish when thinking about the realization that his daughter is missing, or at least feeling fear, or worry he experienced that night, but he doesn't.
It's a huge red flag.
He also gets nervous, and starts wiggling in his leg again. Why is he nervous when he talks about this?
Notice he feels nervousness, but he does not feel any emotions when it comes to his daughter?
That's a huge red flag.
Do you also notice how Cummings said he turned the house upside down, and then told Misty to call 911? Why didn't he ever look outside? Isn't that odd? Misty said the front door was propped wide open. Why wouldn't he start canvassing the neighborhood while Misty called police? It's just another inconsistency in his story.
Clearly, what we should be seeing in Cummings, such as serious questions for Misty, if he is truly uninvolved in Haleigh's disappearance, are not present, and worse, he is showing signs of positive emotions, which absolutely make no sense whatsoever."
.
he is showing signs of positive emotions, which absolutely make no sense whatsoever."
This does make sense if he is getting paid for the videos, and pic from these shows. It is my opinion he started smiling after he got engaged because he was making deals with the today show, and NG for video, and pics. It's the money he's making that causes the glow, and no one has asked the today show or ng how much they paid him for the pics, and videos. I really want to know. That's when he bought the truck, so it was enough for that, plus I'm betting a whole lot more. RK got $20K for one pic. RC gave The today show an exclusive with two videos. I want to know how much he got for them!!!
Pope Jean
04-10-2009, 11:30 AM
I had put this in the rumor thread b/c Ron's interviewing issues were being discused there, but I'm pasting it here.
Anyway, Dr. Paul Ekman is an expert in deception detection among other things and found 50 people who have this really nearly perfect ability to spot liars. They are the sort of Mozarts of lie detection. :) Anyway below is what one had to say about Ron's way of answering questions since the conversation here was going in that direction. In the meantime I will look for the correspnding video clip.
Thoughts on Ronald Cummings on Nancy Grace
"What is so fascinating about this appearance is that Ronald Cummings isn't on the defensive like he usually is. He is fine with everyone tightening the reins on Misty, and ironically, that doesn't seem to bother him at all. His posture is relaxed, and his hands are splayed in front of him in a calm manner.
But what is even more interesting is that you would expect Cummings of all people, here to be the most perplexed, mad and concerned about Misty's inconsistencies, if he is innocent and uninvolved, but he isn't!
Cummings, like everyone else, should want to know why there are inconsistencies. He should be all over them like a wet blanket, so he can get to the truth, but he isn't. Instead, he marries Misty and acts like it isn't his concern or worry that she is inconsistent. This behavior does not support honesty. Is that because he already knows the answers?
Throughout the interview, Cummings is feeling positive emotions. He almost has a "glow" about him. I can't quite put my fingers on it, but it is palpable. He is on the edge, at times, of breaking into a smile. He clearly tries several times to hold it back.
I captured this image below when he said "no" at one point.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mDF6yP52d_c/Sb_KN_pwr7I/AAAAAAAACG0/XQ1aIXfyfkY/s320/ronald+positive+emotions.jpg
You try saying "no" when you are serious. Your lips don't curl up like this (see above). He is saying no and smiling very faintly at the same time. To move your lips upward like this when you feel serious and say no is very awkward to do, unless you are feeling a positive emotion.
Nancy Grace starts out by asking Cummings what Misty originally told him regarding their sleeping arrangements that night with respect to Haleigh. Notice how Ronald does what is considered a "false start"? Cummings starts talking, then stops and changes his direction.
Cummings says, "She told me that she was sleeping in the beh..., um, her and junior were sleeping in my queen size bed and that she was sleeping in the tot bed beside her..."This is quite telling. I suspect he was going to said "bed" above, but stopped mid-sentence.
Was he going to say that she was sleeping in the bed with Junior and Haleigh? When Cummings says the words"beside her," he makes an expression of doubt with his lips and squints his eyes. He pulls his lips up on one side, like when some people say, "I don't know."
He continues with more expressions of doubt when he says, "...three or four feet beside her, or whatever." He squints his eyes like he is trying to recollect this, and his lips move to the opposite side this time, which is unusual for this type of memory, which should be concrete because he has talked about it so many times, if he is telling the truth.
Grace asked how everything got so mis-communicated about where Haleigh slept, and when Cummings replies, the very first few words he says, he has the slightest smirk on his face, "Ms. Nancy, I have no, no answer for you. I don't know how it was mis-communicated."
Grace goes on to ask if Misty told the police that Haleigh was in a separate bed, to which Cummings replies, "I wasn't there when she was questioned by police, Ms. Nancy." At the end of that comment, you can clearly see a grin on his face. It's subtle but definitely there.
Grace than asks why Misty didn't call the police immediately when she realized Haleigh was missing. Notice Cummings doesn't answer the question, and Grace never calls him on it! Instead, he just goes into what I could call a rote speech about the events of that night. He repeats what he has repeated a thousand times.
Also, notice how Cummings' voice inflection changes? All the inflection in his voice disappears, and he talks as if he is drone, just recollecting data. He has no emotions whatsoever.
Why doesn't Cummings feel any emotions about that devastating night? He should feel tremendous pain and anguish when thinking about the realization that his daughter is missing, or at least feeling fear, or worry he experienced that night, but he doesn't.
It's a huge red flag.
He also gets nervous, and starts wiggling in his leg again. Why is he nervous when he talks about this?
Notice he feels nervousness, but he does not feel any emotions when it comes to his daughter?
That's a huge red flag.
Do you also notice how Cummings said he turned the house upside down, and then told Misty to call 911? Why didn't he ever look outside? Isn't that odd? Misty said the front door was propped wide open. Why wouldn't he start canvassing the neighborhood while Misty called police? It's just another inconsistency in his story.
Clearly, what we should be seeing in Cummings, such as serious questions for Misty, if he is truly uninvolved in Haleigh's disappearance, are not present, and worse, he is showing signs of positive emotions, which absolutely make no sense whatsoever."
.
I put a lot of faith in Paul Ekman. He's amazing, and I go to his site often to try to learn more :-) Do you have a link to the above by any chance? I'd like to look around there and see what else I can find.
TIA, Pope
Pope Jean
04-10-2009, 04:15 PM
....snip
1.) The Ron video where he drops to the ground
2.) The Misty video where she rambles on about the washing of the blankets
3.) An early, one of the first few, Greta show interviews of Misty and Ron where they're sitting in chairs side by side outside (and she gets 4 inches and 4 feet confused.)
4.) The TODAY SHOW interview of the newlyweds
5.) An early appearance of Crystal on Nancy (stripperpole!) Grace
Here is one I found on the Today Show: http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m3d13-Video--Newlyweds-Ronald-Cummings-and-Misty-Croslin-on-Today-Show
I thought I could find more... but I wasn't able to yet! I will keep looking for you though :-)
Whisperer
04-13-2009, 09:50 AM
I am shocked no one caught it when NG asked RC, "How did this get so miscontrued?"..when she was referring to who slept where.
Well, it is on a Tube video early after the crime that Ron answers that question saying, "They were all sleeping in the same bed"...
He is the one who gave conflicting answers than says he has no idea how it got started.
I am trying to find the link...had it last week...can't find it today but will keep researching.
Whisperer
04-19-2009, 02:19 AM
Ron has poor memory.
When asked on some interviews why there are conflicting statements, RC says, "I have no idea where they came from...". Ron is the one who gives the conflicting statements....
Take a listen....about 1:50 in to the video he states it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGcVo1DfNlg
TxLady2
04-24-2009, 01:33 PM
I just have to say, though.... I have caught myself smiling when answering a question with No... particularly if the question was ridiculous in my mind, or the answer should be obvious, or if I felt that the questioner was either not being serious or already knew the answer. I'm known to be sarcastic at times, to those who know and love me... so the lip-curling, smiling thing is probably just his sarcastic side coming out.
That was a confusing point for me, Indigo;
The inside door was shown on NG as being on a slow auto -closer. SO what was holdiong it open?
And the screen door was the one "bricked" right?
And from photos (I will try to find those) the screen door was held open only a few inches by the cinderblock.
She didn't mention the INSIDE door on the call or was that the one "wide" open? It'd have to be, right? Or how else could she see that the ecreen door was "bricked" unless the inner door were already open?
BINGO! Tell her what she's won Johnny! :)
Peliman
05-17-2009, 01:17 AM
Statement and analysis people please analyze the video released after weeks of waiting Ron's video released by his lawyer today, Thoughts and opinions welcome. IMHO, this is what we waited weeks to view?
http://findhaleighnow.com/
anyone notice the jaw clenching?
ladonna
05-17-2009, 10:12 AM
I put a lot of faith in Paul Ekman. He's amazing, and I go to his site often to try to learn more :-) Do you have a link to the above by any chance? I'd like to look around there and see what else I can find.
TIA, Pope
Me too, I'd love to see the link on this. Its fascinating
Whisperer
05-18-2009, 03:01 AM
Hi Peliman,
He looked thinner and with facial gestures that definitely are different from what we saw before. He is stoic. I wonder if had an earpiece and was told to blink...goodness. The mouth movement was odd. This was either caused by extreme tension or he is on some kind of meds or drugs that are giving him side effects. He appears to be grimacing. Doesn't look sad but almost at times seems like he is going to smile. Don't know if this nerves or something else.
He may be terrified speaking alone. I don't think RC does "alone" well....on any level.
Donjeta
08-19-2009, 05:57 PM
I found an interesting scientific article:
Homicide Studies 2009; 13; 69-93
Tracy Harpster, Susan H. Adams and John P. Jarvis
Analyzing 911 Homicide Calls for Indicators of Guilt or Innocence: An Exploratory Analysis
It's about homicide 911 calls and how to determine the likelihood of the caller being guilty. The abstract is readable here. http://hsx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/13/1/69 The full text requires a subscription, I got it through my library.
Here is an earlier article from some of the same authors with much the same information in a more practically oriented, less scientific style:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/?tag=content;col1
Based on their research, Harpster, Adams and Jarvis list the following as indicators of potential innocence in their study of callers reporting homicide:
-Immediacy, including early pleas for help, pleas for help for the victim only, urgency of plea, demanding plea, voice modulation, verbal reaction of caller before the 911 dispatcher’s first cue
-accuracy, including self-correction
-validity, meaning plea for help
Indicators of potential guilt include:
-Evasion, including resistance in answering, huh factor, repetition, conflicting facts
-extraneous information
-Distancing measure, including acceptance of death (dependent on whether there is a relationship between the caller and a victim), possession of a problem, inappropriate politeness, insulting or blaming victim, plea for caller only and minimizing their own involvement before, after or during the event. (I just seen him in his car-type of responses).
None of the above mentioned factors are definitive indications of guilt or innocence. All of them can be found in both kinds of calls. It’s just a matter of statistical probability.
The possession of problem is a bit hard to explain so I’ll quote:
"Why would individuals call the emergency line and concentrate on themselves, reporting a problem without asking the dispatcher for assistance for the person who needs it? The following dialogue occurred when a father called 911 concerning his son:
Dispatcher: 911. What is your emergency?
Guilty caller: I have an unconscious child who is breathing very shallowly.
In this case, the father took personal possession of a problem ("I have") and referred to his problem (his dying son) as "an unconscious child." When the paramedics arrived at the residence, the child already had died. The father had assaulted his son, causing cerebral hemorrhaging. Twelve percent of the 911 callers in the study took personal possession of the problem. All were guilty of the homicide."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/pg_3/?tag=content;col1
The most statistically significant factor in Harpster et al’s study was extraneous information (in regard to the outcome, guilt or innocent) but most of the others ended up significant as well, with the exception of minimizing. I figure that’s because both genuine innocent bystanders who just happened upon a body by chance and killers who want to keep out of jail may say they just happened upon a body by chance. Self-correction wasn’t significant in a multivariate analysis, possibly because it came up in such a small number of calls. The authors note that there might be other factors, such as self-interruptions, contractions and usage they didn’t study.
The authors also discuss that one limitation of their study is that they didn’t study calls made by people under 19 nor anyone who was severely under influence while calling. Does this mean it can’t be applied to Haleigh 911 call? Misty was 17, I don’t think that two years would make very much of a difference in verbal behaviour but youth and lack of experience might account for some uncertainty and awkwardness with the procedure. Presumably the emotional reaction a loving and responsible teen stepmom has when a child is missing is pretty much as big as an older caretaker, though, and if one is mature enough to take the responsibility for two children 24/7 one has to be able to report them missing if need be. It is not known if Misty had taken anything that night. If she had it might account for some of the huh factor and the trouble she had answering simple questions.
Some of the citations may be worth looking at. For example:
Olsson, J. (2004). Forensic linguistics: An introduction to language, crime and law. London: Continuum International Publishing Group.
I haven’t read this yet but it is about 911 calls in cases of arson. According to Harpster et al, Olson says that hoax calls differ from genuine ones in that they display less sense of urgency and cooperation by delivering information with “full, frank and timely answering of any questions in addition to the spontaneous offering of any information regarded as essential” and also “defined aspects of phonetic output as the emergency callers’ attempt to communicate nonextraneous information, with intonational emphasis and a rising voice pitch on key words.” I find this interesting, although we know by now that this call was not a hoax at least in that Haleigh really existed and was really gone.
I wanted to look at information that was offered by Misty spontaneously versus that requested by the dispatcher.
The information Misty considers essential enough to volunteer without being asked includes the following:
-she just woke up
-backdoor was wide open
-she can’t find their daughter (not exactly true, Haleigh was not her daughter.)
-she was cleaning
-the door was bricked
-when she was sleeping it was not like that
The information that she has to be asked for, sometimes repeatedly, includes
-the address (asked repeatedly)
-when did she last see the child (she prefaces her reply with “umm, we like just, you know…” stalling for time. Who is we? Just what? You know? Clearly the dispatcher doesn’t know or she wouldn’t be asking the question. Do the pauses and restarts indicate that she was about to say something else but thought better of it?)
-child’s age
-child’s clothing (we now know her reply to this question was false)
-explanation of why she mentioned a brick (her reply is confusing, inconsistent, first she says it was on the floor, then on the stairs, (almost like), then on a walkway)
-color of the house
-description of missing child, her height, weight, color of her hair (stalling again, requiring the dispatcher to repeat some questions as much as three times, reciting back the dispatcher’s questions, repeating words in her answer, giving vague answers, does not know what she weighs, why does she insert oh my gosh when affirming that the child has brown hair, why did the dispatcher have to suggest a color for her at all? She should know what color hair her stepdaughter has. Maybe she said brown and the recording didn’t catch it but the dispatcher did. Mind you, the Amber alert listed her hair as blonde.)
-name and phone number (again, the dispatcher asks for the name repeatedly, there appears to be some confusion about which name is Haleighs and which Misty’s)
-if the door was locked
-are there obvious signs of forced entry
-the missing child’s name (somehow neither Ron or Misty mentions her name during this entire phone call of several minutes. The dispatcher has to ask for it near the end of the call. It’s a bit odd to me. If I had a child missing I’d like the searchers with megaphones yelling her name in every forest nearby ASAP and I would probably be hollering out in the yard myself)
-her date of birth (she can’t supply this)
I sense a pattern here. All that Misty offers freely is that she was cleaning and sleeping and when she woke up there was a brick and an open back door, and she can’t find her daughter. Basically the things she tells unasked make up an explanation as to why she doesn’t know anything, an alibi of sorts for her. Look, I cleaned, (it must mean she’s a good housekeeper, why else is she mentioning it? Is her cleaning somehow significant to Haleigh being missing? It’s an odd piece of extraneous information), and while I slept someone put a brick at the back door and presumably a female child I am related to somehow disappeared from that back door.
However, the dispatcher has to prompt or to repeatedly beg for any essential information that might help LE to find the house or to broadcast a missing children alert for Haleigh (name, age, time last seen, place last seen, clothing, size, general description). None of that is volunteered without being asked. None. There is also no mention of any medical conditions that she has. So she doesn’t do very well on Olsson’s criterion of “spontaneous delivery of information regarded as essential” . How about "full, frank and timely answering of any questions”? Not that so much either. It might be that she was distracted by something that Ron did or she couldn’t hear the dispatcher too well and that’s why the dispatcher had to repeat some of her questions but there appears to be stalling, a huh factor with some pretty straightforward questions, and some vague, unhelpful answers. She’s trying but the dispatcher has to dig everything out of her with a shovel.
There is also no plea for help on Misty’s part. She is politely reporting waking up, an open back door, and a missing child, in that order, not urgently or even calmly requesting or demanding immediate assistance, taking her time to do it (“hi, umm… I just woke up...and our backdoor was wide open and I think...and I can’t find our daughter”).
RC’s contribution is more difficult to analyze because he didn’t make the call from the beginning and we can’t be sure of how much of the previous conversation between Misty and the dispatcher he could follow. He was there making background comments at least some of the time. I’m not sure if anyone’s studied how 911 calls by several callers differ from others.
However, his voluntary offerings to the conversation include the following
-he needs someone to get there now (he says this repeatedly)
-he just got home from work
-his five year old daughter is gone
-he assumes that she was taken by someone and he’ll kill the perp if he can
-he doesn’t care about spending the rest of his life in prison
-he knows that his threats are recorded but he doesn’t care
-he’ll F’ing kill somebody
-they need to find her
-he is looking for his phone, they’ve got better people to talk to than 911 because LE wasn’t there immediately
His prompted replies to the dispatcher’s queries include the following
-he doesn’t know what kind of pajamas she had. This is where he hang up, I think.
-F her date of birth
His alibi is there and he demands for help but otherwise there isn’t much that helps in the search for Haleigh. Yeah, he wuz at werk, and didn’t know which pajamas Misty dressed her in, but he could have asked Misty, Misty was there. I guess he didn’t think of that. Anyway, doesn’t matter, because Misty didn’t know either and because I presume that while they searched, LE checked out any little girls spotted in suspicious circumstances regardless of what they were wearing. .
One thing he could have helped with if he’d cooperated better was to mention that there was a non-custodial parent. During that 911 call, it never even came out that there might be a possibility it’s a family abduction. Misty introduced herself as Haleigh’s mother, talking about “our daughter”, Ronald about “my daughter” and neither of them corrected the erroneous assumption that they were husband and wife, so the dispatcher probably just assumed that she was talking with Haleigh’s biological parents. If Crystal took her it might have made a difference if either Ronald or Misty could have supplied them with Crystal’s name and address, description and the description of her car or at least the information that there was a mother elsewhere and LE might need to check her and her family out. The 911 call was made at 3:27 and according to Crystal she got the first call 3:49 so that’s a 22 minutes delay in contacting her plus whatever time was wasted before Misty called 911. You never know, sometimes 2 minutes make all the difference in solving a crime. Possibly it just did not occur to them at the time, or maybe they had some other suspects in mind. Ron refers to the abductor as “him”.
Ron does demands for help, and I’d put him down as urgent although his urgency is downplayed a bit by the fact that he initially had Misty make the call and let her waste time umming and huhhing. Not sure his effing would have been any better though. The dispatcher preferred to talk to Misty anyway.
I counted four to six instances that might be classified as pleas for help, such as they are.
-(background) “tell them they've better come on...” Just a general hurry up, not a plea for help for anyone in particular
-Ronald Cummings: "Man, I need somebody to get here now!" plea for help for the caller
-Ronald Cummings: "I just got home from work, my five-year-old daughter is gone- I need someone here now." An unrequested alibi, minimizing his own involvement, followed by a plea for help for the caller
-Ronald Cummings: "they better bring f'ing something out here- because if I get my hands on that mother f'er I'm going to kill him...I don't give a f%*)@# about prison...mother F'ing prison doesn't scare me." This was in response to the dispatcher mentioning the dogs. Very urgent but not really a plea for either the caller or the victim, more like a general warning that there will be violence. You’d better come because I won’t account for my actions. A plea to put the perp away (for his own safety). Haleigh would probably have preferred a dad out of jail. Although I was tempted to classify this under extraneous information because his feelings about ending up in jail were not solicited for and did not have anything to do with finding Haleigh. He’s only concerned about finding and beating up the perp here, not finding her and helping her to get home well soon.
Ronald Cummings: "F her date of birth- we need to find her- f her date of birth." Not sure if this should be included as a plea for help because no help is actually asked for and it’s not clear if he’s including the police in his “we” or if he’s just talking about himself, Misty and the better people to call. Still, I mention it because it’s the only instance during the 911 call that either of them mentions that the victim, the missing child needs to be found. Haleigh, remember her?
Ronald Cummings: "where is my f'ing phone...we've got better people to talk to then some mother f'ers who ain't coming." Again, not exactly a plea for help because he writes LE off but I guess complaining that they take too long arriving implies that one would have liked them to arrive fast.
Mind you, I’m not sure that the plea for help for the caller/the victim distinction is as meaningful in a missing person case as in a homicide because the homicide callers have the option to demand an ambulance for the victim lying bleeding on their floor but LE investigating a missing person doesn’t have a location for the ambulance to be sent and have to start the investigation by talking to the caller. Still, there seems to be a slight difference between “please help my daughter, you have to find my daughter, she’s five years old and afraid of the dark and she can’t survive long in this cold without her shoes, oh God, what if someone’s abducted her, you’ve got to come and FIND HER NOW” and “I need police assistance, I cannot find my daughter, please help me before I’m gonna kill someone, I’ll end up in prison before too long…”.
So what have we got from the list of indicators Harpster et al studied? The comments in brackets are my interpretation, not theirs, obviously.
Indicators of potential innocence include:
-Immediacy, including early pleas for help (not for Misty, yes for Ronald if you start counting from where he appears on the transcript instead of the start of the call), pleas for help for the victim only (not really for either of them), urgency of plea (yes for Ron, no for Misty), demanding plea (yes for Ron, not for Misty), voice modulation (I just went by the transcript and didn’t look at this. That’s a whole another exercise), verbal reaction of caller before the 911 dispatcher’s first cue (apparently no, although I’m not sure if the recording starts before the dispatcher speaks)
-Accuracy, including self-correction (well, there’s the brick on the floor, stairs, walkway. Does it count as self-correction or conflicting facts? She knew where the brick was from the beginning but self-correction in this study has more to do with correcting oneself after one learns new information. No correction about the familial relationships)
-Validity, meaning plea for help (yes for Ron, not for Misty)
Indicators of potential guilt according to the same authors include:
-Evasion, including resistance in answering, huh factor, repetition, conflicting facts (Ronald’s definitely got resistance in answering, he even hangs up when he doesn’t like the questions. Misty misses answering some questions, at least the first time, and stalls for time. There might be several reasons for that. However, she defines the huh factor. The dispatcher asks Ronald only two questions, so there’s not enough data to say if he’s got the huh factor or not. Most of his contribution to the call is ranting that is not in response to any question. Misty does some repetition but not enough according to the criteria of repetition in this study: saying the same thing three times or more, eg. “Oh god, oh god, oh god, oh my god”. Conflicting facts, well, the location of the brick was confusing to the dispatcher. Also, she said it wasn’t there when she was asleep which she wouldn’t know.but I suppose she meant she didn’t see it before she fell asleep. The pajamas and the familial relationships were false facts but the opposing information didn’t come out during the 911 call so I don’t think they’d have been flagged in Harpster et al’s study.)
-Extraneous information (well, the cleaning part stands out to me. Why does she say that? Otherwise there’s not that much. Some passages where she starts to say something and then checks herself and starts again, I get the feeling she might have been about to launch into another cleaning or blanket story but decided not to. Obviously that’s just conjecture.)
-Distancing measure, including acceptance of death dependent on whether there is a relationship between the caller and a victim (this is not applicable to the 911 call although I might mention that comment in an interview “I’d give my life for my child’s life back) , possession of a problem (her problem is "I can’t find our daughter", does that qualify?), inappropriate politeness (hi, umm…), insulting or blaming victim (not present in this 911 call), plea for caller only (yes for Ron, no for Misty who does no pleas whatsoever) and minimizing their own involvement before, after or during the event. (I just woke up, I was sleeping, I just came home, I was at work…Well, it might be true. Still, was it the most important information they could convey?)
****
Disclaimer: Please remember that the indicators are statistical pointers only and no indicator is exclusively found in guilty or innocent homicide calls. Also, the Haleigh 911 call did not report a homicide so some of the criteria identified in Harpster et al’s research may not be directly applicable. If either of the callers was intoxicated, it might also influence the analysis.
Sorry for the lengthy post and thanks for reading if you got this far. This is a slightly revised version of something I posted in the RT. I edited to fix links and make it clearer which parts were straight quotes and my paraphrases of Harpster et al’s ideas and which parts my twist on the 911 call based on their ideas. They’re not to blame for any comments referring to Misty and Ron. Their article came out before Haleigh went missing. The Misty and Ron quotes and my paraphrases of them are based on this transcript: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 911 & LE Radio call/Police Report**REVISITED**
I put this in the rumor thread too b/c folks seem to gather there; so I thought no one would see it up here but I wanted to try to revive this threead heh.
I wanted to get some thoughts and reactions from you.
Anyhoo...
(these seem to load slowly so give them a few seconds extra) :-)
RAW VIDEO: Haleigh Cummings' Stepmom Under Hypnosis
http://www.wftv.com/video/20605182/index.html
refresher if you need it - Misty Croslin Interview on CBS Early Show Feb 17, 2009
YouTube - Misty Croslin Interview on CBS Early Show Feb 17, 2009
911 call here
http://www.news4jax.com/video/18700882/index.html
some quotes below - from the video in case you cant link it or feel iffy to click a link
(and may I add a preface of - holy crap, get a load of this)
Also, to me she looks like she's pretending to be afraid as she recalls AND-SHE-TALKS-ALL-SPEEDY-SO-WE-WILL-KNOW-THAT-SHE'S-REALLY-REALLY-AH-SKEERED.
I cant buy it.
Also if she is recalling actually fear when the door is found "wide open" (that would for sure scare me) she's all cucumber cool. WTH? It doesn't fit together.
__________________________________________________ ________
MISTY:
"I woke up some...at three o'clock, I just woke up out of the blue. Three something, I just woke up.
I don't know what made me wake up, and I seen the kitchen light that was on and I know my kitchen light was shut off,
and it was glaring in my bedroom so I mean all the lights, every things turned off when I went to bed...
and the light in the kitchen is glaring so I get up to see what is going on, and the back door was wide open,
and there's a cement block holding the screen door open.
I didn't know Haleigh was gone yet.
I ran back into the bedroom to grab my cell phone, called 911, because the back door was open and
I know the back door was shut when I went to sleep, and I freak'n out already, cuz the back door was open,
and I didn't know what do, and as soon as I called...
I got my phone and uh... and I as soon as I got on the phone and I turned around, she was gone.
So I started look in the house, under the beds, closets, everywhere I could think of...just freak'n out.
And by the time I opened the front door to go out the front door, Ronald pulled up, and he said call the cops so I immediately called 911 (end time marker 9:38)."
__________________________________________________ ______________
The things that Misty had heralded before as important are not the same, right?
For example, there's the goiing-to-the bathroom bit in her initial version.
Now she's all, "blaring light" in the bedroom.
On the 911 call she gives a different version,
__________________________________________________ _____
Misty: "...I seen 3 -- in the morning. I got up and I got up b/c I had to use the bathroom.... but I didn't make it to the bathroom.
I seen the kitchen light on and I walked in the kitchen and the back door is wide open.
I mean I didn't notice about Haleigh then until I seen the back door open and I go into the room and she's gone. And that's all I know."
__________________________________________________ _____
Why didn't she SAY that she called 911 before realizing that Haleigh was gone?
Misty initially said that she called Ron before calling the cops right?
but in this new renditioin, she omits that little nugget.
In the CBS Early Show link she says,
"Well, at first, I'd seen the back door was open, then I was running around the house looking for her, and I got my phone and I called her dad, and then I called the police."
Holy cow, she's grabbing the phone in all different kinds of order.
In the quote from the Early Show above, first she says that she called 911 before realizing Haleigh was missing; Then later she's all, "Ron pulled up and he said call the cops so I immediately called 911."
WHEN DID SHE CALL 911? WHEN DID SHE NOTICE HALEIGH WAS GONE?
BAH..
MOO.
Donjeta
09-05-2009, 05:15 AM
Well, really. You don't need to have her flunking all those lie detection tests to know she is lying, right? She contradicts herself every time she opens her mouth.
Searchfortruth
09-05-2009, 07:06 AM
Very interesting ! The 911 call has always interested me and I keep going back to it. The fact that Misty places the call and not the bio father (who just happens to be there too) prompted questions from me from the get go. His responses during the call...I know this is being recorded, thoughts of going to prison if he has to...and this is just the 911 call, not a judgement on all of the other statements made since.
Thanks for bringing this thread back up front..I am fascinated with statement analysis.
RoseRed
09-05-2009, 08:40 AM
I want to know how much he got for them!!!
Why do you want to know that?
Ronald's behavior disturbs me. It's all specualtion for me b/c all I feel for sure is that he's lying.
I know everyone is different but many things are universal or similar among humans, like "most" people - imo- do certain common things ... many of the times... statistically speaking even.
I mean think about it.. If you came home (as he said he did) and were told your child is gone, you would look all around right? And his immediate contention was "Someone stole her." His efforts to look for her around the home were lame at best.
(Why? b/c he already knew, imo)
If Misty left the kids alone, hurt the kids, drugged the kids on her own, whatever... she'd be dead at worst and at best, or he'd be much more angry at her and not all "in her corner" .. imo.
If he were not involved in anything he wouldn't need to urge Misty to say certain things in a certain ways; Like in some videos you can see him coaching or nudging her or even changing her words. At times he's even answering FOR HER when SHE is asked a question. If he were innocent imo he would have left her to twist in the wind and answer the questions for herself.
I wouldn't have expected an innocent uninvolved person to throw a hissy fit on the 911 call like he did either. Yes, having a child missing is horribly unbearably traumatic and makes you devastated and hysterical even, but he threw a hissy fit. There's a difference....in my opinion.
I wouldn't have expected him to be all pro-Misty right from the get-go either. He's a documented hothead; If he were uninvolved, imo, he would have been ALL OVER MISTY... but he wasn't. He married her. If innoecnt, he would have left her, blamed her, put pressure on her for answers; but instead he's all, "Well, she didn't really say, Miz Nancy." WHAT???
Why? b/c he already knew... ....in my opinion.
MOO
Gracenote
09-05-2009, 08:34 PM
Ronald's behavior disturbs me. It's all specualtion for me b/c all I feel for sure is that he's lying.
I know everyone is different but many things are universal or similar among humans, like "most" people - imo- do certain common things ... many of the times... statistically speaking even.
I mean think about it.. If you came home (as he said he did) and were told your child is gone, you would look all around right? And his immediate contention was "Someone stole her." His efforts to look for her around the home were lame at best.
(Why? b/c he already knew, imo)
If Misty left the kids alone, hurt the kids, drugged the kids on her own, whatever... she'd be dead at worst and at best, or he'd be much more angry at her and not all "in her corner" .. imo.
If he were not involved in anything he wouldn't need to urge Misty to say certain things in a certain ways; Like in some videos you can see him coaching or nudging her or even changing her words. At times he's even answering FOR HER when SHE is asked a question. If he were innocent imo he would have left her to twist in the wind and answer the questions for herself.
I wouldn't have expected an innocent uninvolved person to throw a hissy fit on the 911 call like he did either. Yes, having a child missing is horribly unbearably traumatic and makes you devastated and hysterical even, but he threw a hissy fit. There's a difference....in my opinion.
I wouldn't have expected him to be all pro-Misty right from the get-go either. He's a documented hothead; If he were uninvolved, imo, he would have been ALL OVER MISTY... but he wasn't. He married her. If innoecnt, he would have left her, blamed her, put pressure on her for answers; but instead he's all, "Well, she didn't really say, Miz Nancy." WHAT???
Why? b/c he already knew... ....in my opinion.
MOO
my bold
in the engagement ring video Misty says I know people will take this all wrong but its still about finding Haleigh, its what she wanted.
Who are "people" to whom she refers? And how did getting married help find Haleigh? How did they expect it to? That was clearly a made-up rehearsed reason, so what was the real reason?
This part of things is what totally befuddles me.
elle1919
09-05-2009, 08:59 PM
Very interesting ! The 911 call has always interested me and I keep going back to it. The fact that Misty places the call and not the bio father (who just happens to be there too) prompted questions from me from the get go. His responses during the call...I know this is being recorded, thoughts of going to prison if he has to...and this is just the 911 call, not a judgement on all of the other statements made since.
Thanks for bringing this thread back up front..I am fascinated with statement analysis.
when I heard the 911 call I had a hard time believing those words and emotions were faked. When I observed him on tv I thought he was sincere. But, I do not know this man personally and would have no way of knowing that his friends and family members think he is a gifted actor.
elle1919
09-05-2009, 09:02 PM
my bold
in the engagement ring video Misty says I know people will take this all wrong but its still about finding Haleigh, its what she wanted.
Who are "people" to whom she refers? And how did getting married help find Haleigh? How did they expect it to? That was clearly a made-up rehearsed reason, so what was the real reason?
This part of things is what totally befuddles me.
yes, and the statement "it's what Haleigh would have wanted" makes no sense after hearing Ronald say he thought Haleigh might have woke up and saw something she shouldn't have seen! Did they really think Haleigh would want her Daddy to marry someone that betrayed her father?
DotsEyes
09-06-2009, 06:13 AM
Well, Haleigh wouldn't want her dad going to jail over his 17 year old gf. or her brother taken from dad either.
Divide and conquer.
Well, Haleigh wouldn't want her dad going to jail over his 17 year old gf. or her brother taken from dad either.
Divide and conquer.
You're right. Of course she wouldnt. But 5 yr olds (now 6) do not understand laws and concepts such as stautory rape, etc.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
hey, I'm looking for the clip and if any clever clip saver has it.... (?)
It's where Ron and/or Misty speak of, "looking under the beds.." for Haleigh.
The mattresses are on the floor... Odd.
Donjeta
09-07-2009, 05:34 PM
You're right. Of course she wouldnt. But 5 yr olds (now 6) do not understand laws and concepts such as stautory rape, etc.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
hey, I'm looking for the clip and if any clever clip saver has it.... (?)
It's where Ron and/or Misty speak of, "looking under the beds.." for Haleigh.
The mattresses are on the floor... Odd.
There might be others but in the hypnosis video she says: "So I ran to my bedroom and got my phone and then um I tried to call Ronald he didn’t answer, well before I called Ronald, I turned around, while I was grabbing my phone, I turned around and saw that Haleigh was gone and I tried calling over and over again, I was freaking out, looking under beds, in closets, everywhere and screaming her name. Bubba’s up at that time and he’s freaking out too. That’s when I opened the front door and Ronald was pulling up and I asked him “do you have Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is?” And he was like “what do you mean?” And I’m like “Haleigh’s gone.” And we looked and searched and we couldn’t find her. And that’s it."
That's from DotsEyes excellent transcript further down the page.
Donjeta
09-07-2009, 05:44 PM
Interesting thing about that hypnosis transcript
What were you dreaming about? Do you remember?
I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream.
So there was no dream about four people in the MH, was there?
FWIW, here is a recent Neves clip.
Fla. Girl Missing Six Months
YouTube - Fla. Girl Missing Six Months
Pondering Mind
09-07-2009, 05:53 PM
Well, Haleigh wouldn't want her dad going to jail over his 17 year old gf. or her brother taken from dad either.
Divide and conquer.
I'm sure you are right, but the thing is that children don't want their parent(s) going to jail for any reason....even if it is because of abuse perpetrated against them (the child/children).
Pondering Mind
09-07-2009, 06:03 PM
Ronald's behavior disturbs me. It's all specualtion for me b/c all I feel for sure is that he's lying.
I know everyone is different but many things are universal or similar among humans, like "most" people - imo- do certain common things ... many of the times... statistically speaking even.
I mean think about it.. If you came home (as he said he did) and were told your child is gone, you would look all around right? And his immediate contention was "Someone stole her." His efforts to look for her around the home were lame at best.
(Why? b/c he already knew, imo)
If Misty left the kids alone, hurt the kids, drugged the kids on her own, whatever... she'd be dead at worst and at best, or he'd be much more angry at her and not all "in her corner" .. imo.
If he were not involved in anything he wouldn't need to urge Misty to say certain things in a certain ways; Like in some videos you can see him coaching or nudging her or even changing her words. At times he's even answering FOR HER when SHE is asked a question. If he were innocent imo he would have left her to twist in the wind and answer the questions for herself.
I wouldn't have expected an innocent uninvolved person to throw a hissy fit on the 911 call like he did either. Yes, having a child missing is horribly unbearably traumatic and makes you devastated and hysterical even, but he threw a hissy fit. There's a difference....in my opinion.
I wouldn't have expected him to be all pro-Misty right from the get-go either. He's a documented hothead; If he were uninvolved, imo, he would have been ALL OVER MISTY... but he wasn't. He married her. If innoecnt, he would have left her, blamed her, put pressure on her for answers; but instead he's all, "Well, she didn't really say, Miz Nancy." WHAT???
Why? b/c he already knew... ....in my opinion.
MOO
kant, it has bothered me from the beginning that neither he nor Misty were heard on the 911 calls calling HaLeighs name. They were both on cell phones, so they could be looking and talking to 911 at the same time. And IF everything was just happening in the way(s) :bang: that they have described...WHY were they not calling out for her? Unless as you stated they already knew it was pointless. Even a child will usually call out if they can't find a parent. It really is almost natural instinct IMVHO, but it didn't happen here.
suspicious1
09-07-2009, 06:06 PM
Interesting thing about that hypnosis transcript
What were you dreaming about? Do you remember?
I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream.
So there was no dream about four people in the MH, was there?
I thought this was odd too when I first heard her say that. For her to say that she was not dreaming just didn't sound right. We all dream don't we? My first thought was "of course you were not dreaming or didn't have no dream because you were NOT sleep."
Donjeta
09-07-2009, 06:19 PM
I suppose it's not unusual to be unable to remember one's dreams. I seldom do, I don't know why. People dream in the REM stage of sleep and it's also possible for sleep to have little REM compared to other stages. Sleeping pills and other chemicals can cause such deep sleep that there is little dreaming, or if the sleeping is so superficial that it never reaches the REM stage.
That said, the way she repeats, "I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream" sounds funny to me. It's like she's expecting that someone will argue, yes you did, and repeats the denial for emphasis. Which test was done first, the one in which she claimed to have dreamed of the people in the MH or the hypnosis where she claimed not to have dreamed at all?
suspicious1
09-07-2009, 06:25 PM
kant, it has bothered me from the beginning that neither he nor Misty were heard on the 911 calls calling HaLeighs name. They were both on cell phones, so they could be looking and talking to 911 at the same time. And IF everything was just happening in the way(s) :bang: that they have described...WHY were they not calling out for her? Unless as you stated they already knew it was pointless. Even a child will usually call out if they can't find a parent. It really is almost natural instinct IMVHO, but it didn't happen here.
You are absolutely right. I did not hear them calling out for her which to me would have been a natural reaction.
One other thing that bothers me is when Ron tells Misty to hang up or something like that because he had BETTER PEOPLE to talk to. Who better than the police to help you find your missing child? Who says that when their child goes missing? UNLESS you know who has her and you want to round up some of your thug friends to help you get your child back.
IMO, Ron and Misty both knows who has her and has known from the start. I also believe that whoever has her, has something on Ron, something very very bad which is why he can't tell who has her. He probably feels that if he lead police to who has her then something else far more worse will come to light. The buried gun has always bothered me too. Where I'm from, guys that BURY guns have used them to kill other people. Can Ron be connected to something that bad?
suspicious1
09-07-2009, 06:28 PM
I suppose it's not unusual to be unable to remember one's dreams. I seldom do, I don't know why. People dream in the REM stage of sleep and it's also possible for sleep to have little REM compared to other stages. Sleeping pills and other chemicals can cause such deep sleep that there is little dreaming, or if the sleeping is so superficial that it never reaches the REM stage.
That said, the way she repeats, "I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream" sounds funny to me. It's like she's expecting that someone will argue, yes you did, and repeats the denial for emphasis. Which test was done first, the one in which she claimed to have dreamed of the people in the MH or the hypnosis where she claimed not to have dreamed at all?
She should've just said that she didn't remember as opposed to saying that she wasn't dreaming and didn't have no dream.
I think all of Ron's exclamations on the 911 call were to let us know that he was really really mad... b/c he needed to appear really really mad. The whole call was staged imo. He just way over-did it. And by contrast, Misty was underwhelming.
MOO
orb4me
09-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Here is a web site, that does 'reversal speech' its a rather odd site, but there might be something. I followed a lot of it, but really didnt hear anything worthwhile, but I would like for someone to check it out please.
http://www.backwardstate.com/backward_state_website_037.htm
Donjeta
09-08-2009, 01:45 PM
orb, we have a thread about it, check this out:
Backward State - Reverse Speeech Analysis of Ron and Misty - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
I want to credit DotsEyes for this transcription of Misty's hypnosis session. This was posted in another thread, but it's interesting and she went to a lot of trouble to transcribe it for others to read; so Im re-postinging it here. Thanks again, DotsEyes.
"What kind of day was February 9th?
What kind of day? Well it started out very, very good all up until. . .
What was it like?
It was sunny, it was nice out.
What did you have for breakfast?
I didn’t have breakfast. The kids had eggs.
Tell me in your own words.
Huh?
Tell me about the day in your own words.
OK.Um, _____ we got Haleigh ready for school and she didn't have anything that she wanted to wear, so Granny had some clothes that she wanted to wear, so we drove all the way over to Welatka to get the clothes she wanted to wear.
Then we took her to school and I walked to her into school, walked her all the way to her classroom, then walked out back to, got in the car with Ronald and Jr.
We went home and went back to sleep until about twelve. Got up, Ronald got up, got ready for work and got ready I don’t know what we did around the house, just laid around until Ronald had to go to work. Jr. played and then he took a nap. And it was time for Haleigh to pick up at the bus, so Ronald picked Haleigh up at the bus, I stayed at the house because Jr. was sleeping so Ronald couldn’t take him to the bus, so I stayed there.
And they come back, Ron had 5 minutes until he had to go to work, um he gave me a kiss, Haleigh a kiss, Jr. a kiss and said he had to go. Then the A/C guy, we were sitting on the porch, um we have this little basketball thing and they wanted me to set it up so I was trying to set it up, but I couldn’t set it up, then I seen the A/C guy was there.
Then I walked out of the house and I called Ronald and I said “well, the A/C guy is here” and he said “yeh”, and I gave the phone to Ronald to talk to the A/C guy and my brother was there and we just watched the kids play in the yard and Haleigh was doing great, riding her bike trying to pop wheelies and me and my brother, we just sat over there and watched the kids play.
What time was that?
Maybe about 5:00, I don’t know, probably about 5, I do believe.
What happened after 5:00?
Um, we went in the house, we let the kids play, and I cooked some dinner. The kids played and watched movies like we always do, play and watch movies. I helped HaLeigh with her homework. Um
What movie did you watch that day?
Um they watch Air Bud over and over and over and over again, so it was Air Bud. They don’t stop watching Air Bud, that’s just what they watch or Madagascar, that one too, that’s both of them. . .
What about dinner, what time was that?
Um, I started cooking about 6 and it took me about 30-45 minutes, so eating by a least 7, and that’s when Granny pulled up, and I was finished, I was just waiting for them to finish.
And Granny just brought some clothes and then she left, the kids got finished eating, and I got Haleigh ready for bed, she took her Air Buds to my bedroom to put it in the PlayStation2, cause she didn’t have a DVD player and she watched her movies and she went to sleep.
What time did she go to sleep?
Um, I laid her down at 8:00, that’s her bedtime and it probably took her about 30-45 minutes before she went, you know was sound asleep, um then I, well I got to back up a little bit, I’m sorry, um before she went to bed, right after dinner, I threw her blanket in the dryer, er washer because it smelled like pee and I didn’t want to put her to bed with a blanket on her that smelled like pee and I’m not gonna do that.
That’s disgusting, I wouldn’t want a pee blanket on me, so I wouldn’t to it to nobody else. So I washed her blanket. Then she went to sleep with her little sheet on her and I covered her up with her blanket, she was sound . . .
What was she wearing?
She was wearing her pink Hannah Montana shirt and her underwear. She had shorts on but she took them off. She don’t like to sleep in clothes at all, she hates clothes, wants to strip all the time and be in her underwear.
And probably it took 30 minutes for it to wash and probably like 60 minutes for it to dry and as soon as that was done, I got in my pajamas um and I laid down on the bed. And I remember I was halfway asleep and I remember Jr. getting up and going over me and was out the bedroom door.
And then when I woke up and he was on one side of me but he was moved to the other side of me and that is when I woke up and noticed that the light was on in the kitchen, so I went to the kitchen and I seen the back door was open so I started freaking out about the back door.
So I ran to my bedroom and got my phone and then um I tried to call Ronald he didn’t answer, well before I called Ronald, I turned around, while I was grabbing my phone, I turned around and saw that Haleigh was gone and I tried calling over and over again, I was freaking out, looking under beds, in closets, everywhere and screaming her name.
Bubba’s up at that time and he’s freaking out too. That’s when I opened the front door and Ronald was pulling up and I asked him “do you have Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is?” And he was like “what do you mean?” And I’m like “Haleigh’s gone.” And we looked and searched and we couldn’t find her. And that’s it.
What were you dreaming about? Do you remember?
I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream.
The first time you woke up what time was it?
Three, all I seen was 3, that’s all.
Where did you see the time 3 o’clock?
There is a night stand next to the bed and it’s facing towards the back of the room and it’s red, it says it in red and all I remember seeing is 3, that’s all I remember seeing is 3. "
.
azwriter
10-12-2009, 02:27 PM
[QUOTE=kant;3523039]I know I'm an OCD anal retentive nit-picker... (heh heh) but it's just plain odd to me that Misty starts the 911 call with...
(wait for it...... wait for it....) . :D . HERSELF.
MISTY: "...Um... I was... I just woke up.... and our door was wide open.... and we can't find our daughter...."
I know everyone deals with panic differently and there is no one right way to panic. I get that. But there are norms and patterns to what people say and when comparing what was said to the end result of whoever did "it" -- whatever it was, there are patterns that emerge to use a guidlines or tools; (ok, not "proof.")
She clears herself first. (I just woke up)
She adds the door;
See? It's clearly a stranger/slash/ intruder or the door wouldn't be open.... and furthermore, we're gonna leave the door OPEN til the cops get here to prove it. yeah OK.
Great points kant about Misty's 911 call.
I wanted to add that when you tell a story, you begin at the beginning. Notice how Misty starts by saying "I just woke up." And then proceeds to begin the tale as she wants it to seem it took place.
This call is staged. She's been rehearshed and she and Ron cooked up this story. I'm sure of it.
And, I always wondered, why did Misty make the call? Certainly she was the one who supposedly was there when Haliegh was "taken." But it seems odd to me that Ron, as the father, the one who knows more information about his daughter, would make the call initally.
Also notice how Misty's pitiful voice changes when she's thrown questions by the 911 officer that she can not answer.
This call has phony written all over it.
And, kant thanks for all the articles... they certainly help in studing this case.
Kant is King.
pittsburghgirl
10-12-2009, 05:12 PM
Mar McClish calls three the "liar's number." So that's the first point that strikes me. Whatever else went on, she didn't wake up at three.
This part is a mess.
Then the A/C guy, we were sitting on the porch, um we have this little basketball thing and they wanted me to set it up so I was trying to set it up, but I couldn’t set it up, then I seen the A/C guy was there.
Then I walked out of the house and I called Ronald and I said “well, the A/C guy is here” and he said “yeh”, and I gave the phone to Ronald to talk to the A/C guy and my brother was there and we just watched the kids play in the yard and Haleigh was doing great, riding her bike trying to pop wheelies and me and my brother, we just sat over there and watched the kids play.
1. The fragment, "Then the AC guy" is followed by a "we" that can't be her and the AC guy. Who was sitting on the porch? "They" are the kids later in this sentence. Who is the "We"? When did the brother get there? Where is the "over there" that she refers to in "me and my brother, we just sat over there"?
There's no mention, anywhere, of when the brother arrived and when he left.
She screws up the blanket story entirely. She stumbles over putting the blanket in the dryer, then the washer. And there is all of that time detail about how long the blanket washing/drying takes. She says she covers her with her blanket. When? When did she wash the blanket and why? In one spot it sounds like she puts Haleigh to bed at 8 and falls asleep; in another, it looks like Haleigh doesn't go to bed until the blanket is dried, perhaps at 9:30. All the details of the blanket story are in answer to a question about what Haleigh was wearing.
My questions: When did the brother arrive? When did he leave? Did he leave alone? What else did you wash with the blanket?
Clearly these details are the sorts of things LE is referencing when they say Misty's story doesn't withstand scrutiny.
azwriter
10-12-2009, 06:54 PM
Re Misty and the 911 call-- what's with the "my daughter" fiction? I mean, really, fgs she started out with a bald faced lie! Why?
The only reason I can come up with is to justify why it was her, rather than Ron, placing that call. In my mind, it adds up to Misty not feeling she was the responsible party...in essence, she was falsely inserting herself. Thoughts?
Quiche, good points. I do think that Ron directed Misty to make the initial 911call because he knows she is guilty of or directly involved in whatever happened to Haleigh.
And while the daughter comment is unusual, I think Misty said that so she didn't have to go into the complete story about her relationship with Ron. She had enough to remember in her "script" and was going to make it as simple as possible.
Ron's utterings in the background is very telling to me. It isn't entirely an act. I believe he's angry at Misty but he's also putting on a show of how urgent it is to find his daughter. And, unbelievably he's pretening to be angry with the 911 operator totally as a show of innocence.
I think they are both hiding something. I think Ron knew at least something had happened to Haleigh before he arrived home that night.
azwriter
10-12-2009, 07:22 PM
reinforces the the notion that he has no respect for females at all,[/B]
Snipped for space, but agreed entirely! The only female he might have respect for is his mother - proof from his tattoo of her name above his heart. And that they are connected by the hip when he appears in public.
Also further proof is that he bred with at least two different women but never married either.
I will always contend that he married Misty only to keep the cops at bay so that he would not be charged for sex with a minor.
Now that he's been able to legally skip past that charge, he can get rid of Misty. She served her purpose. And, he knows she will keep tight lipped because they both are involved in Haleigh's disappearance. MOO.
"Keep your enemies close!" my butt. He's watched the God Father movies too often.
azwriter
10-12-2009, 07:33 PM
As I currently am a 911 dispatcher, let me just say when I first heard them play the 911 tape on T.V I thought something is not right at all. when you have done this for 19 years you tend to get that knack for weeding out the liars, and the real. and In my opinion on this one folks I call BULLSHIZZ on Misty.
..........JMO
mis, this is what makes Websleuths such a great crime site. Your long time experience as a 911 operator is so valuable here. Glad you're with us.
azwriter
azwriter
10-12-2009, 07:57 PM
Art H. Interview with Theresa N.
Posted on AH's site 3/30/09 (unsure of the exact date of interview)
Link to video;
http://www.artharris.com/2009/03/30/exclusive-ronald-cummings-mom-defends-misty/#more-1419
TN: Ahh to my knowledge Ronald has only had one other fiancé’ and ahh some of the girlfriends; Misty is at the very top of the list. I can tell ya
End.
BBM and edited for space. I can't believe this line from Ron's mother: one fiance and some girlfriends?
Well mom, what about the women (girls) who gave birth to his children? They were just girlfriends or steady dates? Does she have no moral character than to gloss over these women. These are his children, too. He has a legal and moral responsible for the children he helped create. And his mom can't even bring herself to acknowledge them?
I suppose she believes it was the Crystal and Amber's fault they got pregnant. Boy, what an enabler, mom is!
KOOL LOOK
10-12-2009, 08:58 PM
Snipped for space, but agreed entirely! The only female he might have respect for is his mother - proof from his tattoo of her name above his heart. And that they are connected by the hip when he appears in public.
Also further proof is that he bred with at least two different women but never married either.
I will always contend that he married Misty only to keep the cops at bay so that he would not be charged for sex with a minor.
Now that he's been able to legally skip past that charge, he can get rid of Misty. She served her purpose. And, he knows she will keep tight lipped because they both are involved in Haleigh's disappearance. MOO.
"Keep your enemies close!" my butt. He's watched the God Father movies too often.
bbm These are human beings, not animals. Because he is close to his Mother, her name tattooed on his chest is proof he "bred" with two different women and never married them? :waitasec: We know Ron is the father of Haleigh and Jr. I would like to see the proof you have that Ron is the father of another woman's child, Ambers in specific is who I'm assuming you are referring to in this post as proof. I've seen it stated as fact over and over here on Haleigh's forum, but I've not seen anything validating it even after several posts bringing up the point I'm making. I will even accept Ambers or Ron's own admissions to the fact and claim, because that's proof enough for me as I'm trying to keep fact versus rumors straight in my own mind. TIA
azwriter
10-12-2009, 09:46 PM
bbm These are human beings, not animals. Because he is close to his Mother, her name tattooed on his chest is proof he "bred" with two different women and never married them? :waitasec: We know Ron is the father of Haleigh and Jr. I would like to see the proof you have that Ron is the father of another woman's child, Ambers in specific is who I'm assuming you are referring to in this post as proof. I've seen it stated as fact over and over here on Haleigh's forum, but I've not seen anything validating it even after several posts bringing up the point I'm making. I will even accept Ambers or Ron's own admissions to the fact and claim, because that's proof enough for me as I'm trying to keep fact versus rumors straight in my own mind. TIA
Heyl Kool Look, would you believe something Misty wrote to Amber on a MS?
She tells Amber she has her man (Ron) and will soon have the baby Amber has with Ron. Why would Misty make that threat to Amber if it's not Ron's child? Maybe Misty was just kidding around with Amber.
If you will re-read my post, you will notice I did not tie the tattoo of his mom's name on his chest into proof he bred with two different woman. I think you did that in your post.
azwriter
KOOL LOOK
10-12-2009, 10:05 PM
Heyl Kool Look, would you believe something Misty wrote to Amber on a MS?
She tells Amber she has her man (Ron) and will soon have the baby Amber has with Ron. Why would Misty make that threat to Amber if it's not Ron's child? Maybe Misty was just kidding around with Amber.
If you will re-read my post, you will notice I did not tie the tattoo of his mom's name on his chest into proof he bred with two different woman. I think you did that in your post.
azwriter
I saw that myspace post in the very beginning before it was made private. We have searched for proof, anything validating from Ron, Amber or her own Mother who has custody of this child, and neither make this claim. I can understand the assumption by what Misty wrote.
We have now learned the connections with Amber and the Sheffields. The fight with Amber and Misty's mother, thus assault charges, and an alledged fight Amber and Sarah Sheffield. We know that all these people knew each other prior to Haleighs disappearnce, and appears some of the relationships were volitile. I could take Mistys post on myspace to mean also just taking her child as apparently Amber doesn't retain custody and she could have been doing it to enflame Amber, and actually have nothing to do with Ron at all. A girl thing. As I've seen girls fighting say things like his to each other to make the other mad. I wish we had some kind of validation from someone though as their is alot of negative slandering remarks about Ron concerning this child no one is certain is even his to begin with. Hence, why I was wondering if you had seen some proof or validation somewhere and could share.
One day we'll learn the answers. Maybe someone can ask NG to ask ron or his attorney this question.
Muffet
10-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Didn't Ron take the child home when he was a newborn ...and change his mind and return him the next day? And didn't he answer "possibly" when asked about this other child being his?
Weren't he and the mother living together? Didn't Ron stop by to see the child just a few months ago? I thought he was even on the birth certificate as the father. :confused:
If most of those are true, then it seems strange to demand DNA test results proof to believe he's the father, imo.
PorcineGranny
10-12-2009, 11:41 PM
I saw that myspace post in the very beginning before it was made private. We have searched for proof, anything validating from Ron, Amber or her own Mother who has custody of this child, and neither make this claim. I can understand the assumption by what Misty wrote.
We have now learned the connections with Amber and the Sheffields. The fight with Amber and Misty's mother, thus assault charges, and an alledged fight Amber and Sarah Sheffield. We know that all these people knew each other prior to Haleighs disappearnce, and appears some of the relationships were volitile. I could take Mistys post on myspace to mean also just taking her child as apparently Amber doesn't retain custody and she could have been doing it to enflame Amber, and actually have nothing to do with Ron at all. A girl thing. As I've seen girls fighting say things like his to each other to make the other mad. I wish we had some kind of validation from someone though as their is alot of negative slandering remarks about Ron concerning this child no one is certain is even his to begin with. Hence, why I was wondering if you had seen some proof or validation somewhere and could share.
One day we'll learn the answers. Maybe someone can ask NG to ask ron or his attorney this question.
Muffet, you took the words out of my mouth! I agree 100 percent with your statements. This is my recollection also.
Kool I've never seen nor heard girls make these kind of statements cause this is really serious business. Accusing someone of paternity when they are not the father is morally disgusting. I believe Ron is the father, because he took the baby to his home and cared for him for a short time. I don't think a casual friend would take an infant under any circumstances, especially one with this disability. JMO
Donjeta
10-13-2009, 05:29 AM
I want to credit DotsEyes for this transcription of Misty's hypnosis session. This was posted in another thread, but it's interesting and she went to a lot of trouble to transcribe it for others to read; so Im re-postinging it here. Thanks again, DotsEyes.
Lots of ums in this.
"What kind of day was February 9th?
What kind of day? Well it started out very, very good all up until. . .
Why does she repeat the question? It's a simple question, that she certainly understands. And why does she catch herself there? Did she intend to say until Haleigh went missing or something else?
What was it like?
It was sunny, it was nice out.
See, it was not a difficult question.
What did you have for breakfast?
I didn’t have breakfast. The kids had eggs.
She never mentions having or cooking lunch. Did Jr eat anything other than eggs in the early morning all day until dinner at 7?
Tell me in your own words.
Huh?
The huh factor again.
Tell me about the day in your own words.
OK.Um, _____ we got Haleigh ready for school and she didn't have anything that she wanted to wear, so Granny had some clothes that she wanted to wear, so we drove all the way over to Welatka to get the clothes she wanted to wear.
Wait a sec, I thought the day started very very good...? but this sounds like Haleigh was pitching a serious fit about her clothes to warrant an hour's drive in the morning, and as a mom, that's not good to me. She repeats "she wanted to wear" three times in one sentence so that makes it sound like Haleigh wanting to wear something was a really major event.
Then we took her to school and I walked to her into school, walked her all the way to her classroom, then walked out back to, got in the car with Ronald and Jr.
That's very detailed when "we took her to school" would have provided sufficient information. I'm sure most people could have inferred that if she went inside the school she got out again and then she got back in to the car. Why did she walk her all the way to the classroom? Were they late? She omits personal pronouns and
We went home and went back to sleep until about twelve. Got up, Ronald got up, got ready for work and got ready I don’t know what we did around the house, just laid around until Ronald had to go to work. Jr. played and then he took a nap. And it was time for Haleigh to pick up at the bus, so Ronald picked Haleigh up at the bus, I stayed at the house because Jr. was sleeping so Ronald couldn’t take him to the bus, so I stayed there.
It's already been noticed that that's a lot of sleep for Jr. All morning and then a nap at three-ish. She omits personal pronouns again and is a bit repetitive. Why doesn't she know or why won't she tell what they did for three hours? Anyway, if she was truly hypnotized and reliving the day, wouldn't she know?
And they come back, Ron had 5 minutes until he had to go to work, um he gave me a kiss, Haleigh a kiss, Jr. a kiss and said he had to go. Then the A/C guy, we were sitting on the porch, um we have this little basketball thing and they wanted me to set it up so I was trying to set it up, but I couldn’t set it up, then I seen the A/C guy was there.
It makes no sense that Ronald had five minutes until "had to go to work", didn't his lawyer say he went there half an hour early for his shift, apparently just to socialize? If he had to go right at that moment it was not to work, IMO, but for some undisclosed reason.
Then I walked out of the house and I called Ronald and I said “well, the A/C guy is here” and he said “yeh”, and I gave the phone to Ronald to talk to the A/C guy and my brother was there and we just watched the kids play in the yard and Haleigh was doing great, riding her bike trying to pop wheelies and me and my brother, we just sat over there and watched the kids play.
Ronald wasn't there so obviously she couldn't have given the phone to Ronald. Maybe she wanted to say she gave the phone to the AC guy. This is the first time she introduces the brother but no indication when he came or whether he had his kids with him. She says they watched the kids play twice in the same sentence.
Haleigh was doing great. Why wouldn't she have? Was there any reason to suspect that she might have been ill or injured?
What time was that?
Maybe about 5:00, I don’t know, probably about 5, I do believe.
What happened after 5:00?
Um, we went in the house, we let the kids play, and I cooked some dinner. The kids played and watched movies like we always do, play and watch movies. I helped HaLeigh with her homework. Um
I would like to know more about the homework. What time did she help Haleigh with her homework, before or after dinner? Before or after movies?
What movie did you watch that day?
Um they watch Air Bud over and over and over and over again, so it was Air Bud. They don’t stop watching Air Bud, that’s just what they watch or Madagascar, that one too, that’s both of them. . .
This doesn't sound like she's remembering which movies they watched, it sounds like she's inferring that it must have been Airbud, or oh yeah, Madagascar, because that's the only two movies she can remember them watching. Then she must say they watched both of them because if she leaves the alternative it would be clear that she's making it up.
What about dinner, what time was that?
Um, I started cooking about 6 and it took me about 30-45 minutes, so eating by a least 7, and that’s when Granny pulled up, and I was finished, I was just waiting for them to finish.
And Granny just brought some clothes and then she left, the kids got finished eating, and I got Haleigh ready for bed, she took her Air Buds to my bedroom to put it in the PlayStation2, cause she didn’t have a DVD player and she watched her movies and she went to sleep.
Did she watch the movie before dinner or after dinner or both? She now refers to the movie in plural "Airbuds", "her movies", why? Did she watch several sequels before going to sleep or what?
What time did she go to sleep?
Um, I laid her down at 8:00, that’s her bedtime and it probably took her about 30-45 minutes before she went, you know was sound asleep, um then I, well I got to back up a little bit, I’m sorry,
Upsidaisy, I forgot about the blanket story I have to tell.
um before she went to bed, right after dinner, I threw her blanket in the dryer, er washer because it smelled like pee and I didn’t want to put her to bed with a blanket on her that smelled like pee and I’m not gonna do that.
That’s disgusting, I wouldn’t want a pee blanket on me, so I wouldn’t to it to nobody else. So I washed her blanket. Then she went to sleep with her little sheet on her and I covered her up with her blanket, she was sound . . .
Interesting slip about the dryer/washer and way too much information about the pee in the blanket. It's as if she expects that someone will argue that sleeping with pee on blankets is A-OK.
What was she wearing?
She was wearing her pink Hannah Montana shirt and her underwear. She had shorts on but she took them off. She don’t like to sleep in clothes at all, she hates clothes, wants to strip all the time and be in her underwear.
See, she's supplying an explanation why there were so many stories about what Haleigh was wearing.
And probably it took 30 minutes for it to wash and probably like 60 minutes for it to dry and as soon as that was done, I got in my pajamas um and I laid down on the bed. And I remember I was halfway asleep and I remember Jr. getting up and going over me and was out the bedroom door.
So she put Haleigh to bed at 8 o'clock. That's got to have been when she noticed the blankie smelled. 30 minutes to wash and 60 to dry has Misty in bed at 9:30, not at 10:30 like she said at some point. She just lets Jr wander around at night doing who knows what?
And then when I woke up and he was on one side of me but he was moved to the other side of me and that is when I woke up and noticed that the light was on in the kitchen, so I went to the kitchen and I seen the back door was open so I started freaking out about the back door.
So I ran to my bedroom and got my phone and then um I tried to call Ronald he didn’t answer, well before I called Ronald, I turned around, while I was grabbing my phone, I turned around and saw that Haleigh was gone and I tried calling over and over again, I was freaking out, looking under beds, in closets, everywhere and screaming her name.
Oops, almost slipped there and claimed that she called Ron about the door before noticing Haleigh was gone but she caught herself in time. Did any of the neighbors hear her screaming Haleigh's name? What beds did she look under?
Bubba’s up at that time and he’s freaking out too. That’s when I opened the front door and Ronald was pulling up and I asked him “do you have Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is?” And he was like “what do you mean?” And I’m like “Haleigh’s gone.” And we looked and searched and we couldn’t find her. And that’s it.
That's not it but that's all I'm going to tell you.
What were you dreaming about? Do you remember?
I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream.
So the story about having a dream of four persons in the room was a lie?
The first time you woke up what time was it?
Three, all I seen was 3, that’s all.
Unless she had something covering part of the clock display she'd have seen some other numbers too unless she has some strange kind of clock I'm not familiar with.
Where did you see the time 3 o’clock?
There is a night stand next to the bed and it’s facing towards the back of the room and it’s red, it says it in red and all I remember seeing is 3, that’s all I remember seeing is 3. "
This must be an important point because she says it three times. All she's seen is 3.
KOOL LOOK
10-13-2009, 08:16 AM
Kool I've never seen nor heard girls make these kind of statements cause this is really serious business. Accusing someone of paternity when they are not the father is morally disgusting. I believe Ron is the father, because he took the baby to his home and cared for him for a short time. I don't think a casual friend would take an infant under any circumstances, especially one with this disability. JMO
Good for you if you have never witnessed nor known such behavior, it surely isn't pretty. But it happens, and it happens all the time. Women fighting use their children to hurt one another, making claims of being un-fit mothers, taking their children, etc... Hence so many DCF false allegations reported nationally most all of them are vendettas and pay backs. Yeah, I agree accusing someone of paternity, then slandering them endlessly on the internet is morally disgusting to those of us who have no proof Ron is the Father, nor either supposed parent is making such claims.
As far as DNA testing, they weren't married, and I have no probem with DNA testing, for it only provides a "TRUTH", the "TRUTH" and is welcome with me anytime.
Reporter: "Do you have any other children?"
"Maybe." ~~Ronald Cummings
kiki the parrot
10-13-2009, 12:37 PM
Three, all I seen was 3, that’s all.
Where did you see the time 3 o’clock?
There is a night stand next to the bed and it’s facing towards the back of the room and it’s red, it says it in red and all I remember seeing is 3, that’s all I remember seeing is 3. " [/I]
This must be an important point because she says it three times. All she's seen is 3.
(snip) Good grief, this girl be perseveratin... ("to repeat something insistently or redundantly...") omg check out how many times she repeats or rephrases the same thing three different ways!
"she didn't have anything that she wanted to wear, so Granny had some clothes that she wanted to wear, so we drove all the way over to Welatka to get the clothes she wanted to wear..."
"we took her to school and I walked to her into school, walked her all the way to her classroom..."
"Got up, Ronald got up, got ready for work and got ready..."
"we just watched the kids play in the yard and Haleigh was doing great, riding her bike trying to pop wheelies and me and my brother, we just sat over there and watched the kids play... we let the kids play, and I cooked some dinner. The kids played and watched movies like we always do, play and watch..."
"Um they watch Air Bud over and over and over and over again, so it was Air Bud. They don’t stop watching Air Bud..."
"um before she went to bed, right after dinner, I threw her blanket in the dryer, er washer because it smelled like pee and I didn’t want to put her to bed with a blanket on her that smelled like pee and I’m not gonna do that.
That’s disgusting, I wouldn’t want a pee blanket on me, so I wouldn’t to it to nobody else. So I washed her blanket. Then she went to sleep with her little sheet on her and I covered her up with her blanket..."
"She had shorts on but she took them off. She don’t like to sleep in clothes at all, she hates clothes, wants to strip all the time and be in her underwear."
Perserverating in speech is not normal, if one is being truthful and not unduly anxious or attempting to reinforce false or misleading statements. And that girl still be prevaricatin... ("to mislead deliberately; to lie"), did she put the pee blanket in the washer (as in her corrected statement) or in the dryer, as she initially states. Did Haleigh "go to sleep w her little sheet on..." or did Misty "cover her w a blanket?" :confused:
And I had the same concern upon hearing her statements re Junior. Evidently the last thing Misty remembers was Junior getting up as she's falling asleep (alarm bells). And if I understand the second part correctly, when she finally awakens that morning, Junior is on the other side of her. That would seem to suggest Misty wasn't aware of when Junior returned thus Junior may have been up for some time after he left the room. NOT GOOD. :frown:
"And I remember I was halfway asleep and I remember Jr. getting up and going over me and was out the bedroom door.
And then when I woke up and he was on one side of me but he was moved to the other side of me and that is when I woke up..."
:parrot:
pittsburghgirl
10-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Reporter: "Do you have any other children?"
"Maybe." ~~Ronald Cummings
This could mean that paternity was never established--that he disputes the claim is that the child is his or that he assumes that child is his without establishing paternity or that the child is reputed to belong to someone else but might in fact be his. I don't know the welfare laws in Florida, but to get AFDC in most states, unmarried mothers have to establish paternity, which can be as simple as simply signing an acknowledgment. In other situations, where the mother is not looking for state support for the child, the mother or father might not bother to formalize the legal relationship between father and child. The mother might put the dad's name down on the birth certificate (call the child Susie Doe, if the putative father is John Doe), but that won't hold up in a child support hearing.
PorcineGranny
10-14-2009, 06:02 AM
And if the mother is a drug user, and her baby's father is her supplier for drugs she might not implicate him as the father for fear her drug supply would be cut off. jmo
Everyone can make excuses all day long, but the implication by Ron, Amber and Misty of him being the father of that baby says it all.
For Misty to refer to him as Ron's child and give Ron a warning means to me that Ron has told her its his child. This is not brain surgery.
PorcineGranny
10-14-2009, 06:16 AM
Pittsburghgirl. It is quite possible that Amber has not identified Ron as the father to that baby and does receive assistance from the state. There are instances in life where women do not actually know who the father is or at least say they do not know to keep the father from being forced to pay child support. If Amber is a drug user as has been reported and she is getting her drugs from Ron, that would be reason enough that she would not report him as the father because the state is unyielding in its quest to bring these fathers to justice and make them pay.
It is my conclusion that since the report is that Misty is also a drug user and at one time
was a close friend of Amber who was living with Ron or having a relationship with him that this would be a strong indication of something like this going on. JMO
Whisperer
10-14-2009, 07:08 AM
I think Amber would need a lot of help from the state with this child per his diagnosis. It is very sad. I don't know how that medical part works in Florida.
I agree with the repeating of the questions asked to MC by MC before she answered the question asked of her could indicate that she stalling.
Using a stalling mechanisms such as repeating the question that is asked can sometimes be a sign that the respondent might be deciding whether or not to go ahead and tell the truth ~ given that she hasn't so far ~ I think IMHO I'll lean towards she was trying to remember what she had said before or she was wondering how big of a whopper she could get away with.
Also sometimes when someone repeatedly uses uhms and/or ahhs when they are responding to questions might indicate lying. Kind of like the same as above ~ stalling ~ trying to either remember what was said the first time around ...that kind of thing.
Of course I don't have any links to support these thoughts, they are just my humble opinion.
IMHO her body language is off too in a lot of the earlier interviews when she was first relating what had happened the night that Haleigh disappeared.
She's not telling everything she knows about that evening~ JMHO.
pittsburghgirl
10-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Pittsburghgirl. It is quite possible that Amber has not identified Ron as the father to that baby and does receive assistance from the state. There are instances in life where women do not actually know who the father is or at least say they do not know to keep the father from being forced to pay child support. If Amber is a drug user as has been reported and she is getting her drugs from Ron, that would be reason enough that she would not report him as the father because the state is unyielding in its quest to bring these fathers to justice and make them pay.
It is my conclusion that since the report is that Misty is also a drug user and at one time
was a close friend of Amber who was living with Ron or having a relationship with him that this would be a strong indication of something like this going on. JMO
Federal law requires mothers on AFDC to identify the fathers of their children and to seek support, which is then paid directly to the state if the support is less than the amount of public assistance. That is, they are required to identify potential fathers and make efforts to establish paternity. A woman, of course, could lie to the welfare department or give another name and then feign surprise when that "daddy" was not identified as such by the paternity test. Plenty of women do that in order to keep those payments coming in. But that is fraud against the government. Not exactly a big stretch when drug abusers are involved.
Any father (not just Ron Cummings) would be well advised to get a paternity test if such a woman names him privately as the dad but not publicly. Conversely, the father can go to court and request a paternity test if he believes the child is his.
I am speaking in general terms, as I don't know the histories of these people.
Lil'E
10-14-2009, 09:48 PM
I think Amber would need a lot of help from the state with this child per his diagnosis. It is very sad. I don't know how that medical part works in Florida.
Hi Whisper..do you know, or know of a link that states what this childs condition is. I know he is disabled but unsure of his illness.
Much Thanks
Baxter
10-15-2009, 01:07 AM
bbm These are human beings, not animals. Because he is close to his Mother, her name tattooed on his chest is proof he "bred" with two different women and never married them? :waitasec: We know Ron is the father of Haleigh and Jr. I would like to see the proof you have that Ron is the father of another woman's child, Ambers in specific is who I'm assuming you are referring to in this post as proof. I've seen it stated as fact over and over here on Haleigh's forum, but I've not seen anything validating it even after several posts bringing up the point I'm making. I will even accept Ambers or Ron's own admissions to the fact and claim, because that's proof enough for me as I'm trying to keep fact versus rumors straight in my own mind. TIA
i don't know if you will accept Amber's admission to Art H.
As for Amber Brooks, in a recent exclusive interview with The Bald Truth, she tells me she once lived with Ronald and took care of Haleigh and her little brother, Junior, before their son, Jordan, was born, then split with Cummings who she said has paid no child support, and raised their son as a single mother.
http://www.artharris.com/2009/04/20/haleigh-cummings-case-party-girls-busted-ronald-cummings-bolo/#more-1641
Searchfortruth
02-18-2010, 07:20 AM
I thought this thread was interesting, contains a lot of information (is somewhat linked to the body language thread). There are tons of good links here for use in this case.
With the new jail visits, phone calls there is addtional info for discussion here.
Most of the informative links are provided on page 1 of this thread. There are many articles linked (thanks to Kant). Some cover statement analysis in 911 calls (which are helpful when looking at the 911 call in this case). There are many other links as well there.
I am linking Mark McClish's site here. Although he has not done an analysis of the Haleigh case, there is other useful info there as well.
http://www.statementanalysis.com/
"What is statement analysis", on his site gives a good overview of what to look for.
yosande
02-18-2010, 07:57 AM
I want to credit DotsEyes for this transcription of Misty's hypnosis session. This was posted in another thread, but it's interesting and she went to a lot of trouble to transcribe it for others to read; so Im re-postinging it here. Thanks again, DotsEyes.
"What kind of day was February 9th?
What kind of day? Well it started out very, very good all up until. . .
What was it like?
It was sunny, it was nice out.
What did you have for breakfast?
I didn’t have breakfast. The kids had eggs.
Tell me in your own words.
Huh?
Tell me about the day in your own words.
OK.Um, _____ we got Haleigh ready for school and she didn't have anything that she wanted to wear, so Granny had some clothes that she wanted to wear, so we drove all the way over to Welatka to get the clothes she wanted to wear.
Then we took her to school and I walked to her into school, walked her all the way to her classroom, then walked out back to, got in the car with Ronald and Jr.
We went home and went back to sleep until about twelve. Got up, Ronald got up, got ready for work and got ready I don’t know what we did around the house, just laid around until Ronald had to go to work. Jr. played and then he took a nap. And it was time for Haleigh to pick up at the bus, so Ronald picked Haleigh up at the bus, I stayed at the house because Jr. was sleeping so Ronald couldn’t take him to the bus, so I stayed there.
And they come back, Ron had 5 minutes until he had to go to work, um he gave me a kiss, Haleigh a kiss, Jr. a kiss and said he had to go. Then the A/C guy, we were sitting on the porch, um we have this little basketball thing and they wanted me to set it up so I was trying to set it up, but I couldn’t set it up, then I seen the A/C guy was there.
Then I walked out of the house and I called Ronald and I said “well, the A/C guy is here” and he said “yeh”, and I gave the phone to Ronald to talk to the A/C guy and my brother was there and we just watched the kids play in the yard and Haleigh was doing great, riding her bike trying to pop wheelies and me and my brother, we just sat over there and watched the kids play.
What time was that?
Maybe about 5:00, I don’t know, probably about 5, I do believe.
What happened after 5:00?
Um, we went in the house, we let the kids play, and I cooked some dinner. The kids played and watched movies like we always do, play and watch movies. I helped HaLeigh with her homework. Um
What movie did you watch that day?
Um they watch Air Bud over and over and over and over again, so it was Air Bud. They don’t stop watching Air Bud, that’s just what they watch or Madagascar, that one too, that’s both of them. . .
What about dinner, what time was that?
Um, I started cooking about 6 and it took me about 30-45 minutes, so eating by a least 7, and that’s when Granny pulled up, and I was finished, I was just waiting for them to finish.
And Granny just brought some clothes and then she left, the kids got finished eating, and I got Haleigh ready for bed, she took her Air Buds to my bedroom to put it in the PlayStation2, cause she didn’t have a DVD player and she watched her movies and she went to sleep.
What time did she go to sleep?
Um, I laid her down at 8:00, that’s her bedtime and it probably took her about 30-45 minutes before she went, you know was sound asleep, um then I, well I got to back up a little bit, I’m sorry, um before she went to bed, right after dinner, I threw her blanket in the dryer, er washer because it smelled like pee and I didn’t want to put her to bed with a blanket on her that smelled like pee and I’m not gonna do that.
That’s disgusting, I wouldn’t want a pee blanket on me, so I wouldn’t to it to nobody else. So I washed her blanket. Then she went to sleep with her little sheet on her and I covered her up with her blanket, she was sound . . .
What was she wearing?
She was wearing her pink Hannah Montana shirt and her underwear. She had shorts on but she took them off. She don’t like to sleep in clothes at all, she hates clothes, wants to strip all the time and be in her underwear.
And probably it took 30 minutes for it to wash and probably like 60 minutes for it to dry and as soon as that was done, I got in my pajamas um and I laid down on the bed. And I remember I was halfway asleep and I remember Jr. getting up and going over me and was out the bedroom door.
And then when I woke up and he was on one side of me but he was moved to the other side of me and that is when I woke up and noticed that the light was on in the kitchen, so I went to the kitchen and I seen the back door was open so I started freaking out about the back door.
So I ran to my bedroom and got my phone and then um I tried to call Ronald he didn’t answer, well before I called Ronald, I turned around, while I was grabbing my phone, I turned around and saw that Haleigh was gone and I tried calling over and over again, I was freaking out, looking under beds, in closets, everywhere and screaming her name.
Bubba’s up at that time and he’s freaking out too. That’s when I opened the front door and Ronald was pulling up and I asked him “do you have Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is?” And he was like “what do you mean?” And I’m like “Haleigh’s gone.” And we looked and searched and we couldn’t find her. And that’s it.
What were you dreaming about? Do you remember?
I wasn’t dreaming. I didn’t have no dream.
The first time you woke up what time was it?
Three, all I seen was 3, that’s all.
Where did you see the time 3 o’clock?
There is a night stand next to the bed and it’s facing towards the back of the room and it’s red, it says it in red and all I remember seeing is 3, that’s all I remember seeing is 3. "
.
so which is it? She called Ronald, or she gave the phone to Ronald?
I thought hypnosis brought out detailed info.
moo
SoSueMe
02-18-2010, 09:59 AM
Here is a web site, that does 'reversal speech' its a rather odd site, but there might be something. I followed a lot of it, but really didnt hear anything worthwhile, but I would like for someone to check it out please.
http://www.backwardstate.com/backward_state_website_037.htm
IMO, reversal speech is an anomaly to be sure. I feel it's also very subjective because what I hear from the reversals is not what is heard by others. I suppose you can try to make it fit, but I haven't been successful at it.
SoSueMe
02-18-2010, 10:15 AM
To analyze Misty's words would take more of my time than I have right now, so I'm just going to throw this out here.
We know in the early stages of Haleigh's disappearance Misty was telling the media how Haleigh was out in the yard playing and "she was fine." The problem I have with her statement is that she says it with a sort of bewilderment, like she can't understand how this could have happened, when Haleigh was fine just hours before.
Misty also slipped when giving her tearful interview, where she says, I didn't do anything to/with her.
Now we have seen countless jailhouse interviews where Misty is continuously saying, "we didn't have anything to do with it," and "I didn't do it." Over and over we hear her say, she didn't do it.
The "it" part really bothers me and I just want to know, what is meant by her word "it" in these statements? Does she mean the deed that happened to Haleigh?
It implies to me that Misty knows what "it" is and she doesn't want to be accused of it.
Searchfortruth
02-18-2010, 10:48 AM
I have to say, for me personally, one of the most troubling statements made by Ron and Misty was "and that's all I know". This (among other things, set off huge red flags in the beginning). It's as if they were saying, don't question me anymore. I can't imagine that many parents, of a missing child, would tell reporters (who are trying to get information out) "that's all I know".
SoSueMe
02-18-2010, 10:58 AM
IMO, no, you don't use the words "that's all I know" and if you will recall, both Misty and Ron have used those words. I would be throwing out anything and everything to the media with the hope that something might be of use.
Isn't it also odd that not one little thing has been added to their story since about day 9 when GGS suddenly remembered she had seen Haleigh around 7:00 p.m.?
Wouldn't there be something, ANYTHING that they might have forgotten? Yet, there is nothing....that's all they know.
Concerned Papa
02-18-2010, 04:34 PM
Beginning at the 25:40 mark of the Hypnosis tape:
-We was sitting on the porch. They had this little basketball thing and they wanted me to set it up.
-So, I was trying to set it up when I seen the a/c guy was there.
-Then I (walked?) up the house and called Ronald and asked did you SEE how the a/c guy is here? And he said YEA.
-And I GAVE the phone to Ronald to talk to the a/c guy.....
It sounds like she called out to Ronald, possibly in the B/R or bath, and asked if he saw the a/c guy was there. It's kinda hard to "see" someone at your house if you really are 16.58 miles away at PDM.
It's equally hard to give the phone to someone 16.58 miles away.
Searchfortruth
02-20-2010, 08:50 AM
To analyze Misty's words would take more of my time than I have right now, so I'm just going to throw this out here.
We know in the early stages of Haleigh's disappearance Misty was telling the media how Haleigh was out in the yard playing and "she was fine." The problem I have with her statement is that she says it with a sort of bewilderment, like she can't understand how this could have happened, when Haleigh was fine just hours before.
Misty also slipped when giving her tearful interview, where she says, I didn't do anything to/with her.
Now we have seen countless jailhouse interviews where Misty is continuously saying, "we didn't have anything to do with it," and "I didn't do it." Over and over we hear her say, she didn't do it.
The "it" part really bothers me and I just want to know, what is meant by her word "it" in these statements? Does she mean the deed that happened to Haleigh?
It implies to me that Misty knows what "it" is and she doesn't want to be accused of it.I was reading back over your post and it struck me what an odd statement "she was fine" was, in light of what happened later on to Haleigh. That statement alone makes me think that something happened earlier to Haleigh, possibly a blow to the head, and Haleigh was ok for a time that afternoon. Some fatal head injuries, like subdural hematomas take hours to days to progress to death. I am just guessing of course, but why say Haleigh was ok while riding her bike, in reference to some stranger abducting her later on that night ? It doesn't jive. A more reasonable statment would have been, I didn't see any strangers around the house that day watching us or Haleigh.
Kimster
02-20-2010, 11:33 AM
Regretfully, some posts were removed from this thread. Anytime you see ***** on a link, that means we are not allowed to quote or discuss the information here. This could be due to many factors, factors that were researched by WS administration at some point or another.
Thanks for understanding!
Donjeta
02-20-2010, 11:38 AM
It would be helpful to know why, because the removed posts or the link didn't appear to have anything objectionable to me. Is there a list of the sites that are banned by WS administration somewhere so people can refer to it before posting, and not waste time and thought writing [sometimes long and thoughtful] posts that are going to get removed for unforeseeable violations of undisclosed WS rules?
Kimster
02-20-2010, 11:50 AM
It would be helpful to know why, because the removed posts or the link didn't appear to have anything objectionable to me. Is there a list of the sites that are banned by WS administration somewhere so people can refer to it before posting, and not waste time and thought writing [sometimes long and thoughtful] posts that are going to get removed for unforeseeable violations of undisclosed WS rules?
I'll see what I can find out. This isn't an area of which I'm well-versed. It may take some time as the mods are in and out today.
Dr.Fessel
02-20-2010, 12:21 PM
Bubba’s up at that time and he’s freaking out too. That’s when I opened the front door and Ronald was pulling up and I asked him “do you have Haleigh? Do you know where Haleigh is?” And he was like “what do you mean?” And I’m like “Haleigh’s gone.” And we looked and searched and we couldn’t find her. And that’s it.
Really funny we never hear a peep out of Bubba 3 minutes later when they call 911. How could that be?
Quiche
02-20-2010, 07:22 PM
Could Misty have been referring to one of her own brothers as Bubba? Tommy or Timmy?
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