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affinity
04-07-2009, 12:01 PM
There has been a lot of discussion in the threads about the 4/6/09 document dump that included the photos taken with a cell phone showing Caylee with a mark on her face looking different than her previous photos.
There is a great deal of discussion about whether or not Caylee looks drugged or simply "garden variety" tired.

The reason I wanted to discuss the photos further is because I was very surprised with how much older Caylee looks in the first photo in particular. She was really beginning to look like a child instead of a "toddler".

I've seen many posts about how upset people are with these new photos and how tired she looks, how dilated her eyes look and so forth. But I see the hint of a smile in the first photo and this also is the photo that looks so much older to me. We have seen many many photos of Caylee...but it almost seems like there may have been a gap in photo taking where she grew up a little and no one took photos of her for a little while (amazing as that might have been!).

There is a "jump" in how much older she looks...but perhaps some of you are correct that maybe she was simply kinda "chunkier" than she had been.

Despite the mark on her face..I think she looks on the verge of a smile. Do you see the beginning of a smile too?

whiteangora
04-07-2009, 12:05 PM
No, I don't see any resemblance of a smile.
Caylee looks drugged, tired, sad, lonely and bewildered.

affinity
04-07-2009, 12:09 PM
http://www.wesh.com/slideshow/news/19104541/detail.html (it is photo #19)

ecs5298
04-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Has anyone pinpointed when these pictures were taken? Because I would say that the last pictures taken of Caylee were taken on June 15th at the Nursing Home in Mt. Dora. Caylee was more than likely dead within 24 hours of those pictures being taken.


Edited to add pics:

These are the last pics of Caylee ever taken...unless KC took pics after she killed her.

JMHO but she looks pretty healthy and happy to me.

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ecs5298/caylee_marie-_age_25__1_.jpg

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ecs5298/caylee_marie-_age_25__2_.jpg

affinity
04-07-2009, 12:12 PM
Yes, I agree ...the nursing home pictures are the final video...these might be the only "stills". The ones I am referring to were taken with TonyL's cell phone. I guess you are correct that my subject line could be changed to read Perhaps the last still photos of Caylee (?)

Disguiseduser0308
04-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Personally, I don't think she looks awful in these pics. I'm of the opinion that she's a child that just looks tired. I have a ton of pics of my kids looking less than perfect.

That boo-boo on her face doesn't alarm me as my daughter has a similar one on her chin she got yesterday from trying to climb on her brother's desk. Toddlers/Preschool aged children trip over their own feet quite often. That mark doesn't scream out to me to indicate anything other than she got a boo-boo.

Something that's come to mind that I'm not sure has been mentioned before: Caylee does look a tad chunkier but, a lot of kids put on a touch of weight just before a growth spurt. Then they slim down again. I wonder if she was about to hit a growth spurt hence the more chunky look we see in these particular photos.

FSU_Girl
04-07-2009, 12:19 PM
The cell pics had to be older because in the video from the nursing home there is not a boo boo on her precious little face.

affinity
04-07-2009, 12:32 PM
It would be nice to have a date for the TonyL cell phone photos. Caylee's hair is worn in the same way and her bangs look a titch longer than the nursing home photos.

mommaearth
04-07-2009, 12:38 PM
I know that it says that those photos were taken from a cell phone but, it looks to me they were taken from a laptop. The ones of Caylee holding her face and the one of Casey all distorted are taken with a computer program for a web cam. I have the same program, my son plays with it all the time. both of my kids take funny pic's on it. They were probably taken on the laptop and sent to TL's cell phone. I think Caylee just looks like she is staring at the computer. Maybe a little tired. I also remember somone commenting about the scratch on her face that it came from Caylee falling on a coffe table.

Clock's Tickin
04-07-2009, 12:39 PM
KC hadn't been dating Tony L too long and Caylee was not at the apt often, so the pic would have to be fairly recent, but probably several weeks before she went missing. IMO, the lighting (or lack thereof) makes the child look "tired" and her pupils dilated. I don't think she looks drugged at all.

affinity
04-07-2009, 12:42 PM
I know that it says that those photos were taken from a cell phone but, it looks to me they were taken from a laptop. The ones of Caylee holding her face and the one of Casey all distorted are taken with a computer program for a web cam. I have the same program, my son plays with it all the time. both of my kids take funny pic's on it. They were probably taken on the laptop and sent to TL's cell phone. I think Caylee just looks like she is staring at the computer. Maybe a little tired. I also remember somone commenting about the scratch on her face that it came from Caylee falling on a coffe table. Agree! If taken with a laptop webcam it explains the strange light on her face..it is coming from the monitor.

Jolynna
04-07-2009, 02:16 PM
The mark on Caylee's face in the pictures taken with Tony's cell phone is not the same mark Ricardo said came from a fall against a table. According to Ricardo the table incident happened in January.

I don't know how Caylee got the mark. But as Tony only met Caylee on June 2 it was on her face within the last two weeks of her life.

I don't think Casey drugged Caylee. Ricardo let Caylee sleep over with Casey. He says Caylee usually did stay over when Casey did. It looks like Casey brought Caylee along to the parties if she couldn't get Cindy to babysit. After Casey started seeing Tony she HAD to be--and was--home every night in time to be with Caylee when Cindy left for work.

The FIRST NIGHT Casey spent the whole night with Tony was June 16 after Caylee was, IMO, dead. There was NO need for Casey to drug Caylee. When there was, it looks like she chose to kill Caylee instead.

If Caylee had been getting on Casey's last nerve and she was driven to kill her on June 16, I could also see Casey losing her temper and smacking Caylee hard enough to leave a mark. I think things were tense in the Anthony house the last couple of weeks of Caylee's life.

Even if I don't think Casey regularly drugged Caylee, Casey looks stoned in the picture taken with Tony's cell phone. I don't know how Cindy missed smelling it on Casey or Caylee's clothes or hair.

icherish
04-07-2009, 03:57 PM
I am not seeing a smile, nor am I seeing that she is "drugged" in those two pics. TL took those pictures himself- if Caylee were drugged, surely he would have noticed something was "off" about the child and would have mentioned this in his statements to LE. To the contrary, his statements imply nothing other than Caylee was a typically energetic and normal acting little girl in his presence.

Woe.be.gone
04-07-2009, 04:13 PM
Can some talented person post a side-by-side of the pic from TL's cell phone taken June 2, 2008 and the pic taken on Father's Day, June 15, 2008?

I can't get over the notion that Caylee looks younger on June 15. It may be her clothes or something.

Please, a side-by-side?

Angelonline
04-07-2009, 04:19 PM
To me her face looks bloated or puffy in the pics. Much more so than the ones at the nursing home. Can someone do a side by side? Why did she look so bloated in these, they were obviously taken only days apart, since TL and KC didn't hook up til Jun. This two sets of pics were taken within in a 2 wk time frame. Yet in one set she appears smaller and less puffy.

Angelonline
04-07-2009, 04:19 PM
Can some talented person post a side-by-side of the pic from TL's cell phone taken June 2, 2008 and the pic taken on Father's Day, June 15, 2008?

I can't get over the notion that Caylee looks younger on June 15. It may be her clothes or something.

Please, a side-by-side?
You beat me to it, I was just posting the same thing.

whiteangora
04-07-2009, 04:25 PM
I am not seeing a smile, nor am I seeing that she is "drugged" in those two pics. TL took those pictures himself- if Caylee were drugged, surely he would have noticed something was "off" about the child and would have mentioned this in his statements to LE. To the contrary, his statements imply nothing other than Caylee was a typically energetic and normal acting little girl in his presence.

I don't think Tony was around Caylee enough to know if anything was "off" or not. For all we know that picture might have been taken the first time Tony ever saw Caylee. I wonder if he noticed that Casey appeared as high as a kite in that picture he took?

Rumpole
04-07-2009, 04:29 PM
I put together a slide tribute based on and leading up to, the 5 last still photos of Caylee at the nursing home:


Slide Show - 5 mins
(May take 2 mins to download) (http://www.websleuths.com/hercule/Caylee2.pps)

Paintr
04-07-2009, 04:40 PM
HP that was beautiful. For just a moment you made Caylee come alive again and made me smile.

You also reminded me why we all post here at WS, why we spend so much time poring over tiny print and squinting at photos, why we listen to scratchy taped interviews and why we put up with all the set backs and dead ends we run into. We do it for Caylee.

Absolutely great work! Thank you kindly! :blowkiss:

Lady Loves Lurking
04-07-2009, 04:43 PM
I think cell phones take lousy pics and TL is a lackluster photographer.

sarah7855
04-07-2009, 04:50 PM
I put together a slide tribute based on and leading up to, the 5 last still photos of Caylee at the nursing home:


Slide Show - 5 mins
(May take 2 mins to download) (http://www.websleuths.com/hercule/Caylee2.pps)

That was beautiful, thank you :blowkiss:

icherish
04-07-2009, 05:18 PM
I don't think Tony was around Caylee enough to know if anything was "off" or not. For all we know that picture might have been taken the first time Tony ever saw Caylee. I wonder if he noticed that Casey appeared as high as a kite in that picture he took?

I disagree. If people feel confident they see a "drugged" Caylee just from looking at those two pictures, then surely Tony, who was actually in her presence and saw her behavior at various times (watching her play in his apt., out to dinner, in the pool, ect) would be able to reasonably determine whether something appeared "off" with her or not. He stated Caylee was a "great kid" who acted like a normal child whenever he saw her. I very seriously doubt he'd say that if Caylee appeared lethargic and sedated... iow, drugged.

whiteangora
04-07-2009, 05:36 PM
I disagree. If people feel confident they see a "drugged" Caylee just from looking at those two pictures, then surely Tony, who was actually in her presence and saw her behavior at various times (watching her play in his apt., out to dinner, in the pool, ect) would be able to reasonably determine whether something appeared "off" with her or not. He stated Caylee was a "great kid" who acted like a normal child whenever he saw her. I very seriously doubt he'd say that if Caylee appeared lethargic and sedated... iow, drugged.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but keep in mind that Tony would be a fool to say anything other than "Caylee was a great kid"....what if he said, "She was a brat and acted goofy"? He would be tying his own noose with LE.
Maybe Caylee was not drugged in that picture but she sure didn't look like the healthy, vibrant little girl we have seen her to be in almost all of her other pics.

TakeNote
04-07-2009, 05:47 PM
can someone do a side by side view of the june 15th photo and one of the cell phone photo....please :)

Jolynna
04-07-2009, 05:50 PM
Tony's friends said Caylee let them into the apartment and Caylee was wandering around almost falling off of the balcony.

It doesn't sound like Casey drugged Caylee if Caylee was up and around even when Casey and Tony were "busy" in Tony's room.

Ryansgrama
04-07-2009, 05:56 PM
I think Caylee was one of those children who just had dark circles under her eyes. I think they become more pronounced when she is tired, or the lighting is one way or another. I don't think the dark circles mean she was drugged.
JMO

Truth Seeker
04-07-2009, 05:57 PM
Can some talented person post a side-by-side of the pic from TL's cell phone taken June 2, 2008 and the pic taken on Father's Day, June 15, 2008?

I can't get over the notion that Caylee looks younger on June 15. It may be her clothes or something.

Please, a side-by-side?

http://i39.tinypic.com/mcx16q.jpg

Hope this helps.

Roze
04-07-2009, 06:52 PM
While I do not believe that KC was drugging Caylee on a daily basis, I DO believe that when KC was not sleeping at home with Caylee, that KC was using something to put that child to sleep. Whether or not it was over-the-counter or something illegal, I do not know. I just do not believe that KC had any patience for Caylee disturbing/interferring/interrupting any activities in which KC wanted to engage.

mazajo
04-07-2009, 06:53 PM
That mark on her face in the cell phone picture is definately not there in the nursing home picture, at all. So that means either the cell phone picture was taken significantly before the nursing home, or afterwards. Her bangs do look a little bit longer in the cell phone picture.

I do not think she looks drugged, but she definately doesn't look happy. She looks tired, and she looks like she's been crying- that could explain the puffiness.

Woe.be.gone
04-07-2009, 07:06 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/mcx16q.jpg

Hope this helps.

Thank you very much. She looks to be about the same stage of development. I know LE checked June 15 out thoroughly but after I saw the cell phone pic I was puzzeled.

In the picture H.P. brought here, I can see the place where the owiee was (it's a darker spot). (ecs5298 originally posted picture but shows up below).

Rumpole
04-07-2009, 07:07 PM
Has anyone pinpointed when these pictures were taken? Because I would say that the last pictures taken of Caylee were taken on June 15th at the Nursing Home in Mt. Dora. Caylee was more than likely dead within 24 hours of those pictures being taken.


Edited to add pics:

These are the last pics of Caylee ever taken...unless KC took pics after she killed her.

JMHO but she looks pretty healthy and happy to me.

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ecs5298/caylee_marie-_age_25__1_.jpg

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ecs5298/caylee_marie-_age_25__2_.jpg



She looks healthy alright, not drugged. She' busy concentrating when she is clouring, but then beams a big happy smile. I assume the picture with her sitting on GGD's lap IS the very last recorded image of Caylee, and for that reason, as well as her appearance, I find it extremely haunting and depressing. Perhaps just in that instant she looks worried and vulnerable. As you say, possibly just hours before her murder.

Slide Show - 5 mins
(May take 2 mins to download) (http://www.websleuths.com/hercule/Caylee2.pps)

Woe.be.gone
04-07-2009, 07:18 PM
She looks like she was thinking, "What's up with you? I'll hide here."

travelgal
04-07-2009, 07:22 PM
(snipped)
Something that's come to mind that I'm not sure has been mentioned before: Caylee does look a tad chunkier but, a lot of kids put on a touch of weight just before a growth spurt. Then they slim down again. I wonder if she was about to hit a growth spurt hence the more chunky look we see in these particular photos.

I imagine that her "chunky" look could be due to being fed lots of salty junk food, since she was not at grandma's eating healthier food. Also, she probably wasn't getting much active play time outdoors. I seriously doubt that KC was spending a lot of time with her at the playground, park or pool since Caylee was off with the Nanny at the beach, Universal, Busch Gardens, etc. She was getting plenty of exercise with Zanny as far as KC was concerned.

I only wish she really had been those places with a nanny instead of with her mom.

ecs5298
04-07-2009, 07:44 PM
I'm going to say three words that explains these pictures once and for all.

Ready.....

"Cell phone camera"

That's all there is to it folks.

(Unless there's microscopic kitteh's hiding in the background)

ecs5298
04-07-2009, 07:47 PM
She looks healthy alright, not drugged. She' busy concentrating when she is clouring, but then beams a big happy smile. I assume the picture with her sitting on GGD's lap IS the very last recorded image of Caylee, and for that reason, as well as her appearance, I find it extremely haunting and depressing. Perhaps just in that instant she looks worried and vulnerable. As you say, possibly just hours before her murder.

Slide Show - 5 mins
(May take 2 mins to download) (http://www.websleuths.com/hercule/Caylee2.pps)

I don't know if these are vid caps or stills shot by SP while CA was videotaping. If you look at the video, seconds after this "frame" Caylee looks at Poppa and gives him a kiss and then puts her head back on his chest. She is obviously very content and comfortable and very concerned and loving toward her great grandfather. But yes, it's eeire knowing that hours later she will be dead.

Makes you want to get out the pliers and the blow torch and head down to the 33rd Street Jail.

ibyoungr
04-07-2009, 07:49 PM
Keep in mind the timeline. Casey took care of Caylee May 30 and the daytime for the 31st, for the most part. Cindy and Casey both took care of her on the 1st. Casey had her on the 2nd. Cindy had her for the most part the rest of the week "while Casey worked."

Per Cindy's interview.. she went to Mt Dora Friday the 30th (Casey was with Caylee at Ric's) Saturday the 31st Cindy came home and says she had Caylee that Sat night and Sunday June 1st.
Caylee was with them every Sunday and Casey was too, until June....
Cindy was off work June 2-6th... Caylee was with Cindy except when Cindy thought "Casey was going to work" and then she thought Caylee was with the nanny.. Cindy also said Casey was in and out and she had Caylee alot that week. On June 2nd, Casey was NOT at work and Caylee was with Casey at Tony's swimming and hanging out.
For the rest of the week, it sounds like Caylee was with Cindy.. swimming, shopping, playing, and Cindy rocked her to sleep and put her to bed "when Casey was going to work"

June 2 and June 11 are the ONLY 2 days she was seen by Tony or was even at Tony's apt.

She never stayed the night there...

ibyoungr
04-07-2009, 07:57 PM
I'm going to say three words that explains these pictures once and for all.

Ready.....

"Cell phone camera"

That's all there is to it folks.

(Unless there's microscopic kitteh's hiding in the background)

:yes: Patrick, :shocked2: it really is sooo simple!!

Love,
:sponge:

eddeva
04-07-2009, 08:06 PM
Personally, I don't think she looks awful in these pics. I'm of the opinion that she's a child that just looks tired. I have a ton of pics of my kids looking less than perfect.

That boo-boo on her face doesn't alarm me as my daughter has a similar one on her chin she got yesterday from trying to climb on her brother's desk. Toddlers/Preschool aged children trip over their own feet quite often. That mark doesn't scream out to me to indicate anything other than she got a boo-boo.

Something that's come to mind that I'm not sure has been mentioned before: Caylee does look a tad chunkier but, a lot of kids put on a touch of weight just before a growth spurt. Then they slim down again. I wonder if she was about to hit a growth spurt hence the more chunky look we see in these particular photos.

i agree w/ everything you have to say here, Disguiseduser. i'm a veteran of a great many boo-boos and this one has that suspicious - i just ran into the pointy corner of something - look about it.
when my eldest son was about to sprout he always used to get a little chubby and when my daughter was younger she would look puffy and even noticably pale when she was tired. being half an hour late for nap time was enough to radically change my little girl's appearance. an hour of travelling in the car seemed to do it too ...
as for the bangs ... i think cindy likely trimmed them for the father's day visit or even just b/c they were possibly getting a little close to her eyes and about to be annoying her. i think all us mothers and grandmothers have been guilty of giving the children in our lives a quick 'tidy up' hair cut now and again (i know i have http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq29/eddeva/smilies/blushing.gif)
to top it all i've never seen a good phone pic and honestly wouldn't ever want to form an opinion of abuse based on one unless i could actually see the clear print of a hand where the child had been slapped in the face or something else of that ilk. i'm just not comfortable concluding anything negative based on these pics except that if what we're all seeing really is tony's boxer short clad lower regions there is no way in hell it would be appropriate for caylee to be sitting where she is and i would never allow so small a child to see the poster he has on his wall.
i know a lot of you will think me overprotective about the poster but i'm just trying to be honest about my feelings.

magic-cat
04-07-2009, 08:11 PM
I imagine that her "chunky" look could be due to being fed lots of salty junk food, since she was not at grandma's eating healthier food.

Respectfully snipped...
Remember, Caylee left Grandma's house on the very day that she died, so however she was eating, she was doing it at Cindy's. She left there dead apparently never to eat again.

I'm going to say three words that explains these pictures once and for all.

Ready.....

"Cell phone camera"

That's all there is to it folks.

(Unless there's microscopic kitteh's hiding in the background)

Caylee looks like the circles under her eyes were pronounced in these photos. I think Caylee was under stress in her home. I think this stress came from her mother and her CiCi and I think it shows in her little sweet face. There is also that pesky little unexplained and unaccounted for mark on her face. Nobody has mentioned that mark have they? Nobody has said that 2 weeks before she vanished she had a cut on her cheek? This picture is the only evidence OF that mark that was never mentioned, and so although it is a "ready-set-cell phone shot" it is valuable in that it recorded a "mark" that was quite pronounced and yet never mentioned...by anyone...including Cindy and she HAD to have seen it.

Keep in mind the timeline. Casey took care of Caylee June 30 and the daytime for the 31st, for the most part. Cindy and Casey both took care of her on the 1st. Casey had her on the 2nd. Cindy had her for the most part the rest of the week "while Casey worked."

Per Cindy's interview.. she went to Mt Dora Friday the 30th (Casey was with Caylee at Ric's) Saturday the 31st Cindy came home and says she had Caylee that Sat night and Sunday June 1st.
Caylee was with them every Sunday and Casey was too, until June....
Cindy was off work June 2-6th... Caylee was with Cindy except when Cindy thought "Casey was going to work" and then she thought Caylee was with the nanny.. Cindy also said Casey was in and out and she had Caylee alot that week. On June 2nd, Casey was NOT at work and Caylee was with Casey at Tony's swimming and hanging out.
For the rest of the week, it sounds like Caylee was with Cindy.. swimming, shopping, playing, and Cindy rocked her to sleep and put her to bed "when Casey was going to work"

June 2 and June 11 are the ONLY 2 days she was seen by Tony or was even at Tony's apt.

She never stayed the night there...

Just correcting that initial June 30th date in your post-it should read May 30th...:blowkiss:

Jolynna
04-07-2009, 08:46 PM
My kids got cuts and bruises.

But, a mark showing up on a child's face two weeks before the child is killed by her mother is significant.

Of course kids get hurt. But, a mother that permanently gets rid of her child because she's tired of watching her, might also smack the child for interupting an important texting session.

No, I don't know that happened. But, nothing about Casey makes me think it couldn't have.

PhoneBoothBandit
04-07-2009, 08:59 PM
It does look like the photos are taken on a webcam device. Caylee could have probably seen herself on the screen. She just looks a little puzzled to me - probably trying to watch herself on the laptop... I personally wouldn't go as far as saying she was drugged.

affinity
04-07-2009, 09:23 PM
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5157/cayleemerged.png (http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cayleemerged.png)

passionflower
04-07-2009, 09:27 PM
The pictures that bother me in comparision is the Easter bunny picture.......2 thick pig tails..............then compare to Father's day pic, Caylee's hair has thinned out so much!

Ms.Heather
04-07-2009, 10:05 PM
It does look like the photos are taken on a webcam device. Caylee could have probably seen herself on the screen. She just looks a little puzzled to me - probably trying to watch herself on the laptop... I personally wouldn't go as far as saying she was drugged.

This is the first thing that I thought of. I have the silliest pictures of my neices from my webcam program. They loved to look at the screen and have it snap their pic.
But these are from a cellphone, so I dunno.
I've seen so many pictures of my own son, and nieces where they looked like they have bags under their eyes. Caylee could of been tired, the lighting is horrible, and its a low res picture.
I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

And to the posters who blame Cindy for not being able to smell it on her hair or clothes. Thats a very easy thing to mask, if you try to. Something that tells me that Casey masked it anytime she smoked it (ie: body spray, lotion, mouth wash). My brothers smoked pot like crazy and my mother never ever knew.

Lili
04-07-2009, 10:15 PM
If you look closely at the picture of Grandpa holding Caylee, it looks to me that she has on the same pair of shorts as was mentioned among the items recovered with the remains. Maybe I am seeing things, but that is my opinion.

sayd
04-07-2009, 10:59 PM
To me her face looks bloated or puffy in the pics. Much more so than the ones at the nursing home. Can someone do a side by side? Why did she look so bloated in these, they were obviously taken only days apart, since TL and KC didn't hook up til Jun. This two sets of pics were taken within in a 2 wk time frame. Yet in one set she appears smaller and less puffy.


Hmmm...I started wondering what happens when someone gets too much chloroform and came across this:

>>Exposure to higher concentrations may result in unconsciousness and even death. May cause liver injury and blood disorders. Prolonged exposure may lead to death due to irregular heart beat and kidney and liver disorders.<<

Both kidney and liver issues can cause "puffiness" because the body isn't correctly flushing out the fluids.

Here's more:

>>Exposure to higher concentrations may result in unconsciousness and even death. May cause liver injury and blood disorders. Prolonged exposure may lead to death due to irregular heart beat and kidney and liver disorders. <<

If she is bloated in these pictures, this sure would explain it.

ibyoungr
04-07-2009, 11:04 PM
If you look closely at the picture of Grandpa holding Caylee, it looks to me that she has on the same pair of shorts as was mentioned among the items recovered with the remains. Maybe I am seeing things, but that is my opinion.

We have already been through this. The shorts are WHITE in the photo with Gr Grandpa. The shorts found with the remains are PINK with STRIPES.

Here are the shorts the police believe to be the ones she was wearing.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=852&pictureid=6894

icherish
04-07-2009, 11:12 PM
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but keep in mind that Tony would be a fool to say anything other than "Caylee was a great kid"....what if he said, "She was a brat and acted goofy"? He would be tying his own noose with LE.
Maybe Caylee was not drugged in that picture but she sure didn't look like the healthy, vibrant little girl we have seen her to be in almost all of her other pics.

I think he said she was a great kid because he really thought she was. :)

I believe Tony to be completely truthful, and that he would have told LE if he had seen any indication of Caylee not acting as a normal, healthy child would. I agree with you on the last point...she doesn't look vibrant in those pics. I just don't think that equates drugged.

Sdavidson11
04-08-2009, 12:00 AM
That mark on her face in the cell phone picture is definately not there in the nursing home picture, at all. So that means either the cell phone picture was taken significantly before the nursing home, or afterwards. Her bangs do look a little bit longer in the cell phone picture.

I do not think she looks drugged, but she definately doesn't look happy. She looks tired, and she looks like she's been crying- that could explain the puffiness.

I agree with you. Her bangs are much longer for a maximum 2 week growth period. If I remember correctly she was only at ToneL June 2 and 11. If the video is from May 31 visit to the nursing home, she appears to have changed quite a bit. The mark on her face would be after her visit to the nursing home as KC just started dating Tone. Is there a way to confirm the date & time on video was set right to the actual date and time and not just some random date that happen to coincide with the Mt Dora visit but from an earlier visit. The poor baby. I just can't trust what the A's say with out questioning there every motive.

ibyoungr
04-08-2009, 12:05 AM
I agree with you. Her bangs are much longer for a maximum 2 week growth period. If I remember correctly she was only at ToneL June 2 and 11. If the video is from May 31 visit to the nursing home, she appears to have changed quite a bit. The mark on her face would be after her visit to the nursing home as KC just started dating Tone. Is there a way to confirm the date & time on video was set right to the actual date and time and not just some random date that happen to coincide with the Mt Dora visit but from an earlier visit. The poor baby. I just can't trust what the A's say with out questioning there every motive.

The forensics from the digital camera PROVE the video was taken at Mt Dora on June 15th. This is how the police NAILED down the DATES.

This information is in the first document dumps. The information was taken from the information store off of the camera.

affinity
04-08-2009, 12:32 AM
I agree with you. Her bangs are much longer for a maximum 2 week growth period. If I remember correctly she was only at ToneL June 2 and 11. If the video is from May 31 visit to the nursing home, she appears to have changed quite a bit. The mark on her face would be after her visit to the nursing home as KC just started dating Tone. Is there a way to confirm the date & time on video was set right to the actual date and time and not just some random date that happen to coincide with the Mt Dora visit but from an earlier visit. The poor baby. I just can't trust what the A's say with out questioning there every motive.
I think I see a faint mark on Caylee's face in the nursing home photo. It is the same mark and healed up? My guess is that the cell phone photos predate the nursing home photos.. Caylee's injury healed and she got her bangs trimmed.

JBean
04-08-2009, 02:53 AM
I agree with you. Her bangs are much longer for a maximum 2 week growth period. If I remember correctly she was only at ToneL June 2 and 11. If the video is from May 31 visit to the nursing home, she appears to have changed quite a bit. The mark on her face would be after her visit to the nursing home as KC just started dating Tone. Is there a way to confirm the date & time on video was set right to the actual date and time and not just some random date that happen to coincide with the Mt Dora visit but from an earlier visit. The poor baby. I just can't trust what the A's say with out questioning there every motive.
LE confirmed the date of the video in the first doc dump.

TripleA
04-08-2009, 12:11 PM
I thought Tony said the pics were taken on his cell phone the day they went to the pool (June 2nd?). If it were after a few hours outside in the sun and water in June, then her face could look puffy. The mark is new in that pic, maybe a day or so old. Her bangs are longer.

If the cell pics were June 2nd and the nursing home pics were June 15th, then the mark would have healed mostly by then. I think I see a small mark in the nursing home pics where the boo0boo would have been in the last stages of healing. And her bangs look they were recently trimmed.

Did Caylee get her hair cut the day that the salon lady said she saw Caylee and Casey and that Caylee had a mark by her eye? Or maybe Cindy trimmed her bangs before the trip to Mt Dora.

I don't see a huge difference in her appearance. Puffiness could be tiredness or sun, bangs could have been trimmed before the 15th. Boo-boo could have been just a typical toddler accident.

ibyoungr
04-08-2009, 12:29 PM
Per Tony L's audio interview dated 7-22-08. The detective starts off the interview having Tony sign paperwork stating those photos came from his phone saying that photos were pulled from Tony's phone. The pictures were taken at 4:52 pm. LE could not download the pictures so LE used a digital camera to take a picture of the pictures on the cell phone.

Casey and Caylee left around 5:30-6:30 on June 2 per Tony's interview. Ping records have her leaving at 5:40.

ibyoungr
04-08-2009, 12:38 PM
The famous "posed" picture of Caylee on the couch looking up was also taken in mid-May. This is in the first release of doc dumps.

I am looking for the exact doc.. I will re-edit this post when I find the information.

OneLostGrl
04-08-2009, 12:44 PM
Has anyone pinpointed when these pictures were taken? Because I would say that the last pictures taken of Caylee were taken on June 15th at the Nursing Home in Mt. Dora. Caylee was more than likely dead within 24 hours of those pictures being taken.


Edited to add pics:

These are the last pics of Caylee ever taken...unless KC took pics after she killed her.

JMHO but she looks pretty healthy and happy to me.

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ecs5298/caylee_marie-_age_25__1_.jpg

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ecs5298/caylee_marie-_age_25__2_.jpg


I agree... she looks fine. But then I don't feel she was abused or drugged or ignored prior to her death by her mother or her grandparents.. or anyone else for that matter.

OneLostGrl
04-08-2009, 12:50 PM
I put together a slide tribute based on and leading up to, the 5 last still photos of Caylee at the nursing home:


Slide Show - 5 mins
(May take 2 mins to download) (http://www.websleuths.com/hercule/Caylee2.pps)

:blowkiss: That was beautiful, thank you!

OneLostGrl
04-08-2009, 01:00 PM
I disagree. If people feel confident they see a "drugged" Caylee just from looking at those two pictures, then surely Tony, who was actually in her presence and saw her behavior at various times (watching her play in his apt., out to dinner, in the pool, ect) would be able to reasonably determine whether something appeared "off" with her or not. He stated Caylee was a "great kid" who acted like a normal child whenever he saw her. I very seriously doubt he'd say that if Caylee appeared lethargic and sedated... iow, drugged.

I'm with ya, her mother doesn't look "high as a kite" in that picture either, IMO.

Seebra
04-08-2009, 01:05 PM
Tony has stated several times that he doesn't smoke weed. He did not approave of KC smoking with his roommates either. I think she did it with his roommates while he was in class to get under his skin somewhat, get a rise out of him, make him a bit jealous???. (I don't think his roommates were around when these photos were taken).

The pic was most likely taken on June 2, the only time Tony said that Caylee was ever at his apartment.

There is another pic of Caylee at the pool, where she looks very vibrant and happy.

He said she was happy down at the pool.

IMHO, Caylee looks like a little girl who had a busy day and was simply exhausted.

My daughter, after an afternoon of swimming in the hot sun, looks very similar to this - droopy, baggy eyes, kind of zoned out.

She probably needed a nap is all.

I think Tony is one of the advocates, 100% on Caylee's side in this, and will be a tremendous witness for the state.


I am grateful that he knows what he knows and has seen what he's seen. I think it's disgusting that Caylee's own grandparents are more concerned with professing KC's innocence than convicting the murderer of their grandchild.

Bottom line - I do not believe that Caylee was EVER drugged by KC, not to sleep while KC partied, nothing like that.

This is a case of MURDER, cold blooded and pre-meditated, because KC was "in love" with Tony and her daughter did not fit into the lifestyle KC imagined herself having with Tony.

OneLostGrl
04-08-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't know if these are vid caps or stills shot by SP while CA was videotaping. If you look at the video, seconds after this "frame" Caylee looks at Poppa and gives him a kiss and then puts her head back on his chest. She is obviously very content and comfortable and very concerned and loving toward her great grandfather. But yes, it's eeire knowing that hours later she will be dead.

Makes you want to get out the pliers and the blow torch and head down to the 33rd Street Jail.

Bold is mine-

hahha!! I love the way you think!

In regard to caylee seeming heavy, the slide show he made and linked us earlier has several pictures of Caylee appearing "heavy" also, IMO.

ibyoungr
04-08-2009, 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by ecs5298

Makes you want to get out the pliers and the blow torch and head down to the 33rd Street Jail.

Casey is so cold she would freeze ur torch!

ibyoungr
04-08-2009, 01:32 PM
Karen Angel Audio Interview the nurse at Mt Dora.

She talked to Caylee and asked Caylee for a hug. Caylee gave her a hug and said bye to her.

LE asked if she noticed any brusing or anything unusual about the child.

Karen Angel stated NO.


Shirley Pleasea Audio Interview

LE asked if Caylee had any bruises or anything like that. Shirley said Caylee had no bruises on Father's Day. She stated she never seen any pinching, slapping or any of those types of bruises. Nothing outside of normal brusing from falls.

She also said that Caylee was never a bratty child. She was mindful. George would take her for walks. "If Caylee was ever upset in her little life it wasn't because someone was mistreating her." and these quotes come from the very person that said "I hate to think of her being put in a jail with them women that's going to beat the hell out of her, but it might do her some good."

I love S Pleasea and I think she knew Caylee better than us.

So... with that said.. I will go on believing for 2 1/2 years Caylee was not drugged and beaten... but loved very much by everyone but her mother.
I refuse to minimalize her life to the trunk of a car... I will leave that for Casey.


I think I will go with 2 eyewitnesses that saw her the day before(a complete stranger and a grandma) over anyone here on the board that thinks that child was beat and drugged on a regular basis.

The World According
04-08-2009, 02:18 PM
She looks healthy alright, not drugged. She' busy concentrating when she is clouring, but then beams a big happy smile. I assume the picture with her sitting on GGD's lap IS the very last recorded image of Caylee, and for that reason, as well as her appearance, I find it extremely haunting and depressing. Perhaps just in that instant she looks worried and vulnerable. As you say, possibly just hours before her murder.

Slide Show - 5 mins
(May take 2 mins to download) (http://www.websleuths.com/hercule/Caylee2.pps)
If you don't mind sharing, where did you get all of these photos? I really enjoyed seeing the baby happy!

Jolynna
04-08-2009, 02:58 PM
Karen Angel Audio Interview the nurse at Mt Dora.

She talked to Caylee and asked Caylee for a hug. Caylee gave her a hug and said bye to her.

LE asked if she noticed any brusing or anything unusual about the child.

Karen Angel stated NO.


Shirley Pleasea Audio Interview

LE asked if Caylee had any bruises or anything like that. Shirley said Caylee had no bruises on Father's Day. She stated she never seen any pinching, slapping or any of those types of bruises. Nothing outside of normal brusing from falls.

She also said that Caylee was never a bratty child. She was mindful. George would take her for walks. "If Caylee was ever upset in her little life it wasn't because someone was mistreating her." and these quotes come from the very person that said "I hate to think of her being put in a jail with them women that's going to beat the hell out of her, but it might do her some good."

I love S Pleasea and I think she knew Caylee better than us.

So... with that said.. I will go on believing for 2 1/2 years Caylee was not drugged and beaten... but loved very much by everyone but her mother.
I refuse to minimalize her life to the trunk of a car... I will leave that for Casey.


I think I will go with 2 eyewitnesses that saw her the day before(a complete stranger and a grandma) over anyone here on the board that thinks that child was beat and drugged on a regular basis.


I don't think Caylee was drugged on a regular basis either. The phone pings show the last few weeks of Caylee's life, Caylee was either with Cindy or Casey.

I don't know that Casey did anything to cause the mark on Caylee's cheek. I do know that it isn't the same mark reported by a beauty salon person. The mark taken at the beauty salon was reported by Ricardo to have happened much earlier this year.

Since Casey was tired enough of Caylee to kill her, I don't think it is impossible that during the last weeks of Caylee's life, Casey could have been impatient enough to strike out.

JMO

mommaearth
04-08-2009, 03:01 PM
I said it before earlier in this thread but, I am 100% sure that the photos that were released in this doc dump were taken on a computer/laptop. They may have been emailed to TL's phone after they were taken. I have many pictures of my kids playing on that same program that distorts the pictures. Web cam stills make you look funny. It gives a strange light at your face. I will see if I can find a few pics I have taken on it.

Rumpole
04-08-2009, 03:03 PM
If you don't mind sharing, where did you get all of these photos? I really enjoyed seeing the baby happy!
Photos are mainly just the bits and pieces here at WS and elsewhere on the net.

I wasn't making a point of keeping them earlier on, so I think there may be more, better quality out there.

I'd be happy if anybody has any other pics of just Caylee or with any monsters easily cropped off.

Woe.be.gone
04-08-2009, 04:17 PM
I think he said she was a great kid because he really thought she was. :)

I believe Tony to be completely truthful, and that he would have told LE if he had seen any indication of Caylee not acting as a normal, healthy child would. I agree with you on the last point...she doesn't look vibrant in those pics. I just don't think that equates drugged.

Just to be thorough, when TL was with Lee (pt. 4) and Lee was saying how much JG seemed to love Caylee (even more than he loved KC), TL responded by saying "Why would he get so attached to Caylee?". Realizing his comment didn't sound too good under the circumstances, TL quickly added "I mean who wouldn't, she's an adorable little girl." When you listen, his tone speaks louder than his actual words. That's what is so great about audio.:)

Mind you, it's not surprising that a 22 yr. old college student/nightclub worker would immediately take to a new girlfriends little kid but this exchange spoke to the fact that TL was not at all interested in a little kid and KC new it.

In da Middle
04-08-2009, 04:48 PM
OK, first off, I am not a fan of ANY of the A's, but fwiw, Caylee's hair is much more "kept"- fresh and brushed- in the last known pics with KC than the last known pics with CA. Just sayin.....

Zelda
04-08-2009, 05:56 PM
The two pictures of Caylee shown on this thread--Caylee looks tired, subdued,
and not happy. The one with her mom looks particularly sad and Casey is smiling her usual big smile.
The rest of the pictures show Casey partying-- with men and women.

I think all the pixs are gross. Why are so many pixs taken of Casey and friends?

According to the pictures of Caylee she wasn't happy. And I think her mother
was the cause. I sure don't see a smile in either pix aside from Casey's big broad, teethy smile.