View Full Version : Which POI do you suspect?
LinasK
04-08-2009, 10:21 PM
Which POI do you suspect and why? My money's on Lawless because of the church being declared an active crime scene and that his mobile home was at the front of the park where Sandra was headed...
frankieiiiieee
04-08-2009, 10:26 PM
You are so right! I forgot she was headed that way...just his mannerisms when the reporter was talking to his wife kinda creeped me out.
STEADFAST
04-08-2009, 10:26 PM
I also voted for Lawless, because of the church searching, the luggage story that's hinky, the location of their home in the direction Sandra turned, how the wife said Sandra was "abused," and a few others I can't remember. Each one might not be enough for me to focus on Lawless, but everything together.
chicagofa13
04-08-2009, 10:34 PM
I also voted for Lawless, because of the church searching, the luggage story that's hinky, the location of their home in the direction Sandra turned, how the wife said Sandra was "abused," and a few others I can't remember. Each one might not be enough for me to focus on Lawless, but everything together.
Me too, but I'm just not settled on him. Something is off for me, possibly another member of the family? IMOO.
wfgodot
04-08-2009, 10:35 PM
The pastor, because of the way Sgt. Sheneman immediately answered a question at yesterday's presser by saying the pastor was interviewed soon after the luggage was unsealed. It was the fastest I've ever seen him respond, other than to say he couldn't comment or answer something. He seemed to jump at the question.
Sunburst70791
04-08-2009, 10:37 PM
I voted for Lawless, although before he came into the picture I was leaning heavily towards Slayter and his son....
The change to Lawless for me is the luggage story...how convenient if that is true....
I've also considered the Tracy60....which could very easily, imo, include Slayter, Wohler, Lawless, and Sinclair.....this thing could really blow up to be bigger than we can imagine...jmo of course
all of the POI are sick, creepy dudes and I personally think each of them needs to be watched very, very carefully for the rest of their lives.....moo
passionflower
04-08-2009, 10:37 PM
I also voted for Lawless, because of the church searching, the luggage story that's hinky, the location of their home in the direction Sandra turned, how the wife said Sandra was "abused," and a few others I can't remember. Each one might not be enough for me to focus on Lawless, but everything together.
yes and they did not seem broken up about this, but claim she is like family to them. I am wondering if we will find out Sandra was 'tortured'........(abused)
I honestly for some reason think 2 people are involved........IMOO
LinasK
04-08-2009, 10:38 PM
The pastor, because of the way Sgt. Sheneman immediately answered a question at yesterday's presser by saying the pastor was interviewed soon after the luggage was unsealed. It was the fastest I've ever seen him respond, other than to say he couldn't comment or answer something. He seemed to jump at the question.
The sergeant also said he wasn't a suspect/arrested YET. Makes me think he will be.
wfgodot
04-08-2009, 10:41 PM
The sergeant also said he wasn't a suspect/arrested YET. Makes me think he will be.
Yes, and at, I think, a later presser--maybe the same one--he used the word "pastor" several times, as if he were trying to impress on listeners that this was their suspect--while at the same time denying he'd been arrested or settled upon as the suspect.
Nonni Brenda
04-08-2009, 10:44 PM
You are so right! I forgot she was headed that way...just his mannerisms when the reporter was talking to his wife kinda creeped me out.
Hi Frankie, I agree with your suspect and your reason. Their manner when being questioned by the reporter just didn't seem appropriate. Mr. L even looked away, and Ms. was too talkative, giving more info that needed, seemed nervous or anxious. They both seemed creepy!
:furious:
Sweetie_PI
04-08-2009, 10:46 PM
Actually Wohler AND one of the Pastor's "decendents" plus the Pastor at some point, are my three initial votes.
So, it isn't just one involved in this.
I think they ALL had a role in helping the final act of Sandra's murder to take place. No pedo actor acts alone. But Pedo Park also played a HUGE role.
IMO Sandra was desensitized to thinking bad touch was actually not "that bad" because Wohler wasn't kicked out of the park, because LE did nothing back then. So even though that was "bad touch", her natural instincts were tampered with. "Oh he was just being friendly". Meaning Wohler's acts were OK by the regulating community. He got to drive by her house up and down her street after that. As much as he wanted it appears.
SO as far as I am concerned, guilty of this final heinous act or not, Wohler DID play a role. SO if/when her instincts kicked in again in the future, perhpas Friday at 4:05pm, if they did, she would likely not have kicked and run.
So now the community wants to know what to do. NOW they ask? What Pedo Park AND Tracy PD could have done was set a policy of ZERO TOLERANCE TO ANY PEDO ACT.
Too little, too late. But it can be fixed.
PS How was the bag weighted down in the water?
Cubby
04-08-2009, 11:17 PM
Me too, but I'm just not settled on him. Something is off for me, possibly another member of the family? IMOO.
I agree. Nothing about his 'tenant' that I have seen here yet but still reading. Tenants- or boarders initials are PM.
frankieiiiieee
04-08-2009, 11:22 PM
Hi Frankie, I agree with your suspect and your reason. Their manner when being questioned by the reporter just didn't seem appropriate. Mr. L even looked away, and Ms. was too talkative, giving more info that needed, seemed nervous or anxious. They both seemed creepy!
:furious:
Hi right back at ya Nonni! :blowkiss:and yea it really did seem like they were nervous
or suspicious. I'm thinking if he did something his wife knows it!
wfgodot
04-08-2009, 11:26 PM
Hi right back at ya Nonni! :blowkiss:and yea it really did seem like they were nervous
or suspicious. I'm thinking if he did something his wife knows it!
Perhaps, but never underestimate the weird-out effect of having microphones thrust at you and reporters hurling questions when you've never been in a similar situation before.
frankieiiiieee
04-08-2009, 11:30 PM
true true wow so much stuff that we dont know right can't wait till this is figured out, i think LE has it down though.
OkGrace
04-09-2009, 12:09 AM
I just cannot vote, chances are only one person (may not even be one listed) is guilty while the others are being dragged........
chicagofa13
04-09-2009, 12:31 AM
I just cannot vote, chances are only one person (may not even be one listed) is guilty while the others are being dragged........
I felt the same and I voted anyway. Now I feel a bit guilty. I know everyone thinks they are nervous, but I would be too if I was drug out of bed, taken to the police and questioned for hours. Then I come home and reporters are there. Exhausted, confused, scared? Innocent or guilty they would be my emotions, I think they would be for most people.
(And no, I have never been questioned, and I haven't committed any crimes, but I know I would feel all those things!)
Actually Wohler AND one of the Pastor's "decendents" plus the Pastor at some point, are my three initial votes.
So, it isn't just one involved in this.
I think they ALL had a role in helping the final act of Sandra's murder to take place. No pedo actor acts alone. But Pedo Park also played a HUGE role.
IMO Sandra was desensitized to thinking bad touch was actually not "that bad" because Wohler wasn't kicked out of the park, because LE did nothing back then. So even though that was "bad touch", her natural instincts were tampered with. "Oh he was just being friendly". Meaning Wohler's acts were OK by the regulating community. He got to drive by her house up and down her street after that. As much as he wanted it appears.
SO as far as I am concerned, guilty of this final heinous act or not, Wohler DID play a role. SO if/when her instincts kicked in again in the future, perhpas Friday at 4:05pm, if they did, she would likely not have kicked and run.
So now the community wants to know what to do. NOW they ask? What Pedo Park AND Tracy PD could have done was set a policy of ZERO TOLERANCE TO ANY PEDO ACT.
Too little, too late. But it can be fixed.
PS How was the bag weighted down in the water?
3 cheers to your post!
ilovemew
04-09-2009, 01:06 AM
I also voted for Lawless, because of the church searching, the luggage story that's hinky, the location of their home in the direction Sandra turned, how the wife said Sandra was "abused," and a few others I can't remember. Each one might not be enough for me to focus on Lawless, but everything together.
how about his smiling when the reporters asked him a question. also the fact that he repeated back the question to the reporter about his involvement. If these people tun out to be innocent than so be it. this is all for Sandra and whatever it takes to get her justice.
gibby207
04-09-2009, 01:20 AM
Sorry, but Lawless. For more than one reason, but specifically the one stated by me on the Lawless thread. Hink-o-meter is stinky on that one. Yes, there are RSOs and sick mofos who kiss girls in the neighborhood, but.... I'm stuck on Lawless. I may be wrong, but that's who I'm sleuthing now...
wfgodot
04-09-2009, 01:26 AM
Sorry, but Lawless. For more than one reason, but specifically the one stated by me on the Lawless thread. Hink-o-meter is stinky on that one. Yes, there are RSOs and sick mofos who kiss girls in the neighborhood, but.... I'm stuck on Lawless. I may be wrong, but that's who I'm sleuthing now...
Best thing about your answer: how you've phrased it!
And I agree.
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 01:35 AM
I did not vote in the poll, mainly because I am looking at specific people connected to LL.
I'd like more information on P. Martinez, whose name is connected to LL in the veromi database.
By the way, the P in those aliases stands for Pastor. It comes up here and there in various people searches. I don't think this is too many aliases at all. There is nothing there except all three names in various forms.
What interests me is the lack of info before the day he married, the same day he got saved.
scandi
04-09-2009, 01:46 AM
I voted for Lawless, although before he came into the picture I was leaning heavily towards Slayter and his son....
The change to Lawless for me is the luggage story...how convenient if that is true....
I've also considered the Tracy60....which could very easily, imo, include Slayter, Wohler, Lawless, and Sinclair.....this thing could really blow up to be bigger than we can imagine...jmo of course
all of the POI are sick, creepy dudes and I personally think each of them needs to be watched very, very carefully for the rest of their lives.....moo
yes and they did not seem broken up about this, but claim she is like family to them. I am wondering if we will find out Sandra was 'tortured'........(abused)
I honestly for some reason think 2 people are involved........IMOO
Hi Frankie, I agree with your suspect and your reason. Their manner when being questioned by the reporter just didn't seem appropriate. Mr. L even looked away, and Ms. was too talkative, giving more info that needed, seemed nervous or anxious. They both seemed creepy!
:furious:
Gosh :eek:, I've never thought of this till reading your posts, but what if the wife was the photographer and knows all about everything. I hope it is OK to post this as it is an unGodly thought. If anyone wants me to delete this sentence I will. A possibility, as is everything right now.
Invisible
04-09-2009, 01:51 AM
I am going with Pastor Lawless...the suitcase, the church as possible crime scene, the gdaughter's car being searched. I think that the Pastor became obsessed with Sandra when she came to visit and play the grt grandchild. I think Sandra felt comfortable in the house and with the family. I think she would have willingly gone with Pastor Lawless.
LinasK
04-09-2009, 01:54 AM
I am going with Pastor Lawless...the suitcase, the church as possible crime scene, the gdaughter's car being searched. I think that the Pastor became obsessed with Sandra when she came to visit and play the grt grandchild. I think Sandra felt comfortable in the house and with the family. I think she would have willingly gone with Pastor Lawless.
I saw that on the 10:00 news tonight about Lawless's g-daughter's car being searched, but I couldn't find it in any print articles...
claudicici
04-09-2009, 06:51 AM
...when was it mentioned that Sandra was abused?(aside from the kiss in the pool)...was that mentioned by the pastor's wife? omg,I'm just getting a really sick feeling...could that whole gang be involved like a ring ?
...the wife also seemed suspicious to me...."we've known them before birth,they are like children...and then she corrected herself and said "our" children to us...but she did not seemed concerned at all...
OkGrace
04-09-2009, 07:21 AM
I did not vote in the poll.
I'd like more information on F. Martinez, whose name is connected to Lawless in the veromi database.
By the way, the P in those aliases stands for Pastor. It comes up here and there in various people searches. I don't think this is too many aliases at all. There is nothing there except all three names in various forms.
What interests me is the lack of info before the day he married, the same day he got saved.
I am not understanding the concern about the lack of info prior to 1960. That is almost fifty years ago and we did not have internet etc to search.
I think if there were some type of record it would have been disclosed by now.
msfittz
04-09-2009, 07:56 AM
This was a hard choice. Any of them seem VERY possible.
I voted for Lawless, but concede that it could be also be a member of his family.
oh_gal
04-09-2009, 08:01 AM
This is pure speculation on my part, but when I heard that someone reported that a suitcase for the church rummage sale was stolen from the back of a car, my immediate thought was......"hmmm......that would make a very convenient alibi for the killer (if the killer was the person who reported it stolen).
........or maybe I've been watching too many crime dramas...
So....I guess my choice for POI.....is "Other"
jblfelines
04-09-2009, 08:36 AM
Hi right back at ya Nonni! :blowkiss:and yea it really did seem like they were nervous
or suspicious. I'm thinking if he did something his wife knows it!
I don't think his wife knows if he did. The BTK killer's wife never knew about him. He appeared to be such a good citizen and a deacon at the church while all the time being a sick killer.
wfgodot
04-09-2009, 08:45 AM
I don't think his wife knows if he did. The BTK killer's wife never knew about him. He appeared to be such a good citizen and a deacon at the church while all the time being a sick killer.
Excellent example since, as you say, BTK was church-associated (actually we Lutherans have church elders, not deacons). And I agree with your reasoning.
miss lisa
04-09-2009, 08:57 AM
I did not vote in the poll.
I'd like more information on F. Martinez, whose name is connected to Lawless in the veromi database.
By the way, the P in those aliases stands for Pastor. It comes up here and there in various people searches. I don't think this is too many aliases at all. There is nothing there except all three names in various forms.
What interests me is the lack of info before the day he married, the same day he got saved.
Martinez is also tied to lot # 76. FWIIW.
ella's mom
04-09-2009, 11:10 AM
I picked others only because when I saw Lawless I assumed it only meant the Pastor. I think this is going to be linked to the Lawless family, but not speciffically to the Pastor. Does that make sense?
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 11:41 AM
I am not understanding the concern about the lack of info prior to 1960. That is almost fifty years ago and we did not have internet etc to search.
I think if there were some type of record it would have been disclosed by now.
That's a very good point, Grace. I think you are largely correct. I just took note that his bio states nothing about his life prior to being saved. People usually give some background about themselves, so saying that he was saved and married and mentored all at once raised a flag for me. It suggests to me (and others) that he doesn't want to disclose or discuss it.
But as for your actual statement regarding data, I think you are correct.
nursebeeme
04-09-2009, 12:34 PM
I saw that on the 10:00 news tonight about Lawless's g-daughter's car being searched, but I couldn't find it in any print articles...
there is an article... I think it was on cbs13...not sure I didn't get to it yet to post it in the media links because my right clicker broke LOL
nursebeeme
04-09-2009, 12:41 PM
I voted for Lawless because of the suitcase, the ellusive "rummage sale", the location of his home, his frequent contact with Sandra, and (I actually should have put this one first) the astro charts.
Oh...also d/t some "slips" made by Shenehan when he talks about the Pastor...and the timing of the church/his home being searched and him being interviewed all night in conjunction with the case being opened
ETA: if persons homes where Sandra spent the most time was the reason for Slaytor being searched than why wasn't Lawless searched around that time??? Why right after the case was opened??????
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 01:28 PM
Martinez is also tied to lot # 76. FWIIW.
Thanks, yes, we have been aware of that but so far it, and he, has not come to the forefront of the investigation. This case has been so fast-moving that I don't know if anything has come out on him in the past few days. I will refresh my memory by looking at the maps thread.
tiredofthis
04-09-2009, 01:39 PM
...when was it mentioned that Sandra was abused?(aside from the kiss in the pool)...was that mentioned by the pastor's wife? omg,I'm just getting a really sick feeling...could that whole gang be involved like a ring ?
...the wife also seemed suspicious to me...."we've known them before birth,they are like children...and then she corrected herself and said "our" children to us...but she did not seemed concerned at all...
Some people are not very good at showing emotion.
LinasK
04-09-2009, 01:41 PM
Thanks, yes, we have been aware of that but so far it, and he, has not come to the forefront of the investigation. This case has been so fast-moving that I don't know if anything has come out on him in the past few days. I will refresh my memory by looking at the maps thread.
This person is a roommate of Lawless. Perhaps he is a migrant worker. We don't know who in the MHP are migrant workers. Somehow this case is connected to Lawless and his church. Could also be a family member of his since they searched his granddaughter's car. That's why I provided the "others" option.
rosepetal1065
04-09-2009, 01:42 PM
I voted the pastor, I just got a load of their interview in the car. He was a cool customer, creepy cool. The wife wasn't any better.
MOO
tiredofthis
04-09-2009, 01:44 PM
I voted the pastor, I just got a load of their interview in the car. He was a cool customer, creepy cool. The wife wasn't any better.
MOO
He did seem creepy. I'm not sure about his wife.
Gummishoe
04-09-2009, 01:56 PM
First of all I am not sure anyone did report the suitcase missing or stolen, was this a fact? If so can someone send me the link? Thanks, I voted for others, I am really still sitting on the fence with this only because I would like to know more about the evidence that was found such as the gloves. Also I keep staring that the short video of little Sandra of her skipping and crossing over to the street, does anyone know where exactly she was in that video? She almost looked as though she stopped abruptly as if she saw a person, she fixed her hair and it looked as though she went back to the side of the street she had just come from. :confused:
elepher50
04-09-2009, 02:00 PM
After doing the wah wah waffle, I have voted for other. There is only one name on the list that I would vote for if the "other" category wasn't there and it isn't the one that has the most votes right now. Me thinks Lawless is just a "connector" in some way but not the end perpretrator (connector meaning suitcase for example).
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 02:23 PM
This person is a roommate of Lawless. Perhaps he is a migrant worker. We don't know who in the MHP are migrant workers. Somehow this case is connected to Lawless and his church.
<respectfully snipped>
Yes, thanks, and I agree. I found that info on PM several days ago before Sandra's body was found, while searching for info on the pastor based on some forensic astrology research I was doing. Does anyone here feel motivated to look further for info (birthdate, birthplace, priors) on him?
warbuckle
04-09-2009, 03:22 PM
I voted for F. Williams because he is a church member, friend of the pastor and the first one to report the luggage was "stolen". Why would someone say the luggage was stolen? I think he was starting to get nervious that it might get tied back to him so he came up with the story it was stolen. Also, from his house to the pond is a straight shot.
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 03:48 PM
So the theory that the pastor knows something at the very least, could be connected to his work with his congregant FL Williams.
txsvicki
04-09-2009, 04:47 PM
They're all way too supsicious to suspect any certain one yet. I'd suspect the pastor the least, but he should have more sense than to hire people with criminal records. The luggage thing is a little more suspicious. It's awful that a child had to even live near these types of men.
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 05:57 PM
Very true txsvicki. Is it confirmed that the church works with RSO's trying to reform (or something). Anyone been able to confirm that rumor?
chicagofa13
04-09-2009, 06:20 PM
That's a very good point, Grace. I think you are largely correct. I just took note that his bio states nothing about his life prior to being saved. People usually give some background about themselves, so saying that he was saved and married and mentored all at once raised a flag for me. It suggests to me (and others) that he doesn't want to disclose or discuss it.
But as for your actual statement regarding data, I think you are correct.
On that note, if you want to be literal, he was born again that day. I remember being baptized at 8 (in a river! cold!) and part of the words were "...buried with Him in baptism, raised to walk in newness of life". They may use it literally, and in that case his prior life is of less consequence. Not necessarily his family, but his "unsaved" past. Maybe he was without a plan before, bouncing around, job to job, college to college. Who knows! A lot of people in their 20's are rudderless!
I know there is supposedly a link to classmates.com on here, maybe I can check later, I still have an account there.
chicagofa13
04-09-2009, 06:21 PM
Very true txsvicki. Is it confirmed that the church works with RSO's trying to reform (or something). Anyone been able to confirm that rumor?
IIRC that was disproved on another thread. It's another Baptist group. But I am not 100 percent sure...
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 06:21 PM
On that note, if you want to be literal, he was born again that day. I remember being baptized at 8 (in a river! cold!) and part of the words were "...buried with Him in baptism, raised to walk in newness of life". They may use it literally, and in that case his prior life is of less consequence. Not necessarily his family, but his "unsaved" past. Maybe he was without a plan before, bouncing around, job to job, college to college. Who knows! A lot of people in their 20's are rudderless!
Except he was living/grew up in? in a town known for "the Wenatchee Witch Hunts".
PS The Classmates angle has already been checked, thanks. :)
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 06:24 PM
IIRC that was disproved on another thread. It's another Baptist group. But I am not 100 percent sure...
The other group was disproved, but then something else came out. There is so much fast-moving info you could be right.
chicagofa13
04-09-2009, 06:28 PM
I voted for Lawless because of the suitcase, the ellusive "rummage sale", the location of his home, his frequent contact with Sandra, and (I actually should have put this one first) the astro charts.
Oh...also d/t some "slips" made by Shenehan when he talks about the Pastor...and the timing of the church/his home being searched and him being interviewed all night in conjunction with the case being opened
ETA: if persons homes where Sandra spent the most time was the reason for Slaytor being searched than why wasn't Lawless searched around that time??? Why right after the case was opened??????
I read Sheneman got on the press today for jumping on Lawless as the perp. Interesting.
Some people are not very good at showing emotion.
I am one of those people. Sometimes people think I don't care, it's very hard.
I voted the pastor, I just got a load of their interview in the car. He was a cool customer, creepy cool. The wife wasn't any better.
MOO
I posted yesterday on Lawless' thread that I would be a mess if I was drug out of bed and questioned all night. I don't know how I would act. JMHO. However I did vote for him, or someone in his orbit...
First of all I am not sure anyone did report the suitcase missing or stolen, was this a fact? If so can someone send me the link? Thanks, I voted for others, I am really still sitting on the fence with this only because I would like to know more about the evidence that was found such as the gloves. Also I keep staring that the short video of little Sandra of her skipping and crossing over to the street, does anyone know where exactly she was in that video? She almost looked as though she stopped abruptly as if she saw a person, she fixed her hair and it looked as though she went back to the side of the street she had just come from. :confused:
I read it on kcra.com in an article and posted it to WS a couple days ago, I'll try to find it. The quote is from F Williams, there is NO corroboration! Sheneman said in a presser there is no report of "stolen" luggage but when he was asked if they discussed it in interviews he said "no comment". So clearly it's a factor, IMO.
That camera is on Sandra's house, so she has to be heading away again when we see her walking out of view.
Found the article:
http://www.kcra.com/news/19122181/detail.html
chicagofa13
04-09-2009, 06:33 PM
Except he was living/grew up in? in a town known for "the Wenatchee Witch Hunts".
PS The Classmates angle has already been checked, thanks. :)
Well, I think Wenatchee was a big witch hunt. So I'm not going to jump in there!! :eek:
Ok, well if anymore classmates stuff comes up I'd be glad to try and help if I'm available. :blowkiss:
The other group was disproved, but then something else came out. There is so much fast-moving info you could be right.
Oh you are so right, I apologize if I mixed something up here.
Maybe we need a "facts" thread like we have on some other cases???
Nora Charles
04-09-2009, 06:40 PM
I haven't voted yet, but probably will later. I'm just not sure yet because I'm trying to look ONLY at verified facts, not hearsay (Williams statement about the luggage), unsubstantiated rumors (red ribbon on suitcase - no one saw it in pictures and LE hasn't reported it), impressions (Pastor not looking at reporter outside car - the car was surrounded by reporters which might have freaked him out, and he had been up all night), opinions (handyman said Pastor wasn't friendly), past actions (Kissing Bandit - although I think he should rot in jail for that alone!) or body language/vocal patterns (Pastor repeating question before answering it, and smiling; I know a man his age with the exact same vocal and facial patterns, and with him I know it's just an issue of age and not being very "quick" any more).
I guess I'm just waiting for something more concrete to sway me to a definite opinion, plus I'm not excluding a couple people not mentioned in the poll - Williams (why did he insert himself into this?), the maintenance guy (I'm sure he had keys to those back gates/fire exits), other residents (lots of MHP's give out keys to those gates so they can walk their dogs outside and/or in case of emergency).
I'm certainly NOT excusing the pastor, if it sounds that way, I just don't see enough facts to be sure it's him. If it's him I think he should get a harsher judgment because he is also a representative of God. Whomever it is should be executed because these people are never retrained.
MOO!!
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 06:41 PM
Maybe we need a "facts" thread like we have on some other cases???
I'm pretty new but that sounds like a very good idea Chicago. I've seen things keep cropping up that I and others found several days ago, maybe that type of thread should be started earlier? The problem is it is not kosher to name people too early and a lot of the early info relates to speculative names.
chicagofa13
04-09-2009, 07:04 PM
I'm pretty new but that sounds like a very good idea Chicago. I've seen things keep cropping up that I and others found several days ago, maybe that type of thread should be started earlier? The problem is it is not kosher to name people too early and a lot of the early info relates to speculative names.
That's why we leave those thread starts to the pros!! Seriously, if there are stated facts in this case, we can put them up. Such as the poster who joined and said her "Sovereign Grace" website was NOT targeting this church, they are not related denominations, etc. Things like that. Just a suggestion to help keep track.
nursebeeme
04-09-2009, 07:37 PM
wish I could change my vote to wtf because I seriously think they all seem guilty!
RhythmicSun
04-09-2009, 07:51 PM
nurse you are cracking me up today! :blowkiss:
passionflower
04-09-2009, 07:57 PM
I am wishing that Fred Williams (heavy white man with bushy mustache) was on the list........since he knew so much about luggage,has a key to church, goes to the church, I am leaning toward him.
Also Johnny Williams (no relative, blackman) saw a heavy white man with a bushy mustache with a young girl like Sandra in a boat????
Makes me wonder..............
elepher50
04-09-2009, 08:19 PM
wish I could change my vote to wtf because I seriously think they all seem guilty!
That would be the latest theory?? Willie Thomas Frank ... very interesting Beeme - I will get on that right away ..lol
scandi
04-09-2009, 08:50 PM
That's why we leave those thread starts to the pros!! Seriously, if there are stated facts in this case, we can put them up. Such as the poster who joined and said her "Sovereign Grace" website was NOT targeting this church, they are not related denominations, etc. Things like that. Just a suggestion to help keep track.
Hi Chicago, I keep remembering the website for the church with the word 'excite' in it, and I think that could lead to some fact about what the preacher and his church is all about. At least if it is true what the poster said about that kind of an email address :eek::eek: xox
txsvicki
04-09-2009, 08:59 PM
On that note, if you want to be literal, he was born again that day. I remember being baptized at 8 (in a river! cold!) and part of the words were "...buried with Him in baptism, raised to walk in newness of life". They may use it literally, and in that case his prior life is of less consequence. Not necessarily his family, but his "unsaved" past. Maybe he was without a plan before, bouncing around, job to job, college to college. Who knows! A lot of people in their 20's are rudderless!
I know there is supposedly a link to classmates.com on here, maybe I can check later, I still have an account there.
A Baptist doesn't consider himself born again when he's baptized though. That's the whole point of being Baptist. He'd consider himself born again when he accepted Jesus and probably wanted to follow through and be baptized and a member of the church before marrying. Of course, this all could have happened on the same day, but I'd doubt if a pastor would allow his daughter to marry an unsaved man and get all the way to the altar.
Mysterylover
04-09-2009, 09:01 PM
I am wishing that Fred Williams (heavy white man with bushy mustache) was on the list........
since he knew so much about luggage, has a key to church, goes to the church, I am leaning toward him.
Also Johnny Williams (no relative, blackman) saw a heavy white man with a bushy mustache with a young girl like Sandra in a boat????
Makes me wonder..............
passionflower, makes me wonder also....he has my vote!
especially since HE had a yard sale and the church did NOT!..imo
passionflower
04-09-2009, 09:25 PM
On astro thread they need help finding exact date of Fred L. Williams
Nora Charles
04-09-2009, 09:27 PM
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I said this on another thread (the Lawless thread, I think) and I'm so glad to see someone else who is thinking along the same lines. I haven't heard of a pastor, or even a Christian layman, who wouldn't want to give a new Christian more time before marrying him off to his daughter.
SPECULATION ALERT: This would be the case even more if he had a "past" which seems possible to some of us.
Something just seems weird about this.
A Baptist doesn't consider himself born again when he's baptized though. That's the whole point of being Baptist. He'd consider himself born again when he accepted Jesus and probably wanted to follow through and be baptized and a member of the church before marrying. Of course, this all could have happened on the same day, but I'd doubt if a pastor would allow his daughter to marry an unsaved man and get all the way to the altar.
scandi
04-09-2009, 09:59 PM
I am wishing that Fred Williams (heavy white man with bushy mustache) was on the list........since he knew so much about luggage,has a key to church, goes to the church, I am leaning toward him.
Also Johnny Williams (no relative, blackman) saw a heavy white man with a bushy mustache with a young girl like Sandra in a boat????
Makes me wonder..............
Don't laugh at me Passionflower, but I could have sworn I read here somewhere this F Williams was living within a few houses of the preacher. Then I saw where he lives in a different subdivision on a map. I think it was something he said when he was talking about the suitcase that gave me the idea he was real close by, and why I thought he was good friends with Lawless. I know he belongs to his church.
Have you read anything like that here? xox
scandi
04-09-2009, 10:20 PM
passionflower, makes me wonder also....he has my vote!
especially since HE had a yard sale and the church did NOT!..imo
Hi Mysterylover, I'm really bad, wondering if F Williams and the preacher are somehow in cahoots. I would love to see their financial matters disclosed to see if they use the church to do any filming.
Yesterday I thought it was the preacher and his wife that had done this:eek::eek:
It is a very good thing we can speculate here as we have no bone dry info really, when you look at everything. My Hinky Meter just screams at me about the preacher with everything I have read. Eee Yii Yii :rolleyes:
passionflower
04-09-2009, 11:09 PM
Don't laugh at me Passionflower, but I could have sworn I read here somewhere this F Williams was living within a few houses of the preacher. Then I saw where he lives in a different subdivision on a map. I think it was something he said when he was talking about the suitcase that gave me the idea he was real close by, and why I thought he was good friends with Lawless. I know he belongs to his church.
Have you read anything like that here? xox
I thought Fred W lived near Sandra also, then someone posted a pix and his house was brick with garage and a boat in yard..........looked like a different community???? But could he visit in the MHP often? Did Sandra know him?
passionflower
04-09-2009, 11:12 PM
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I said this on another thread (the Lawless thread, I think) and I'm so glad to see someone else who is thinking along the same lines. I haven't heard of a pastor, or even a Christian layman, who wouldn't want to give a new Christian more time before marrying him off to his daughter.
SPECULATION ALERT: This would be the case even more if he had a "past" which seems possible to some of us.
Something just seems weird about this.
shotgun wedding? to save elder Harris from embarrasment in his church???
SeekingJana
04-09-2009, 11:25 PM
yes and they did not seem broken up about this, but claim she is like family to them. I am wondering if we will find out Sandra was 'tortured'........(abused)
I honestly for some reason think 2 people are involved........IMOO
Your post gave me chills. Look at the thread on Lawless. His wife says " And a tiny little thing like that ABUSED and then killed". Pastor Lawless mutters something about " don't know that" when she is saying ABUSED so she says KILLED really quickly.
SeekingJana
04-09-2009, 11:33 PM
wish I could change my vote to wtf because I seriously think they all seem guilty!
I'm starting to think that some very bad things were going on in the MHP/ Baptist church... That there was more than one person involved in the abduction and unknown time in captivity until she was murdered.
LinasK
04-09-2009, 11:35 PM
I'm starting to think that some very bad things were going on in the MHP/ Baptist church... That there was more than one person involved in the abduction and unknown time in captivity until she was murdered.
Seems like things were reaching a critical mass in the MHP & Church. Wonder if there are other abuse victims...
Nora Charles
04-09-2009, 11:37 PM
Just a theory...trying to figure out why a Baptist pastor would perform a wedding between his daughter and a very new Christian (who wasn't even baptised until the wedding date). Not something pastors, or Christian laymen, typically do.
Edit: I forgot which thread I was on! LOL I came to the same conclusion on another thread and used the term "shotgun wedding." When I saw your post, I thought you were questioning my use of it, rather than coming to the same conclusion! :crazy:
So let me revise my answer...yeah! That may be it! LOL
shotgun wedding? to save elder Harris from embarrasment in his church???
scandi
04-09-2009, 11:48 PM
I'm starting to think that some very bad things were going on in the MHP/ Baptist church... That there was more than one person involved in the abduction and unknown time in captivity until she was murdered.
Hi SeekingJana, Last night someone posted a link to this church and it had an email address with the ending of @excite. She said that always indicates something bad, like it sounds :rolleyes:
So tonight I saw another link to the church and it had a different email address that did not include the word 'excite'. I'm wondering if thie email address has been changed in the last day as it told the rest of the story :eek: Seriously. xox
chicagofa13
04-10-2009, 12:10 AM
A Baptist doesn't consider himself born again when he's baptized though. That's the whole point of being Baptist. He'd consider himself born again when he accepted Jesus and probably wanted to follow through and be baptized and a member of the church before marrying. Of course, this all could have happened on the same day, but I'd doubt if a pastor would allow his daughter to marry an unsaved man and get all the way to the altar.
Thanks, I was brought up nondenominational, where you accepted Jesus and were pretty much baptized immediately, or in my case the next day when my parents and witnesses could be there (it was church camp :) ). Learning a lot here about different church beliefs!
Hi SeekingJana, Last night someone posted a link to this church and it had an email address with the ending of @excite. She said that always indicates something bad, like it sounds :rolleyes:
So tonight I saw another link to the church and it had a different email address that did not include the word 'excite'. I'm wondering if thie email address has been changed in the last day as it told the rest of the story :eek: Seriously. xox
I also read excite.com used to be more reputable, so I'm not sure how much stock I put in the email address. :waitasec:
*SIGH* I need to do my taxes. *Sigh* This is more important to me right now...
SeekingJana
04-10-2009, 12:22 AM
Hi SeekingJana, Last night someone posted a link to this church and it had an email address with the ending of @excite. She said that always indicates something bad, like it sounds :rolleyes:
So tonight I saw another link to the church and it had a different email address that did not include the word 'excite'. I'm wondering if thie email address has been changed in the last day as it told the rest of the story :eek: Seriously. xox
Oh gosh. Flashbacks to BTK.. seriously. I was all over that case for years on Tom Voight's website.
passionflower
04-10-2009, 04:05 PM
Presser at 6:30 EST, arrest hopefully!
Sgt. gonna get his guy(s) I am sure!
Gaia713
04-10-2009, 05:05 PM
Sorry, but Lawless. For more than one reason, but specifically the one stated by me on the Lawless thread. Hink-o-meter is stinky on that one. Yes, there are RSOs and sick mofos who kiss girls in the neighborhood, but.... I'm stuck on Lawless. I may be wrong, but that's who I'm sleuthing now... Here's my problem with RSOs. Not all of them are pedophiles for one thing. Some like boys. I would imagine the number of pedophiles who are into young girls is a mere % of all the RSOs out there.
wfgodot
04-10-2009, 05:19 PM
We need a sub-thread entitled, "Now, if you could change your POI vote...." I vacillate back and forth on these guys too much, and we might still have "other(s)" as the eventual correct answer.
nursebeeme
04-10-2009, 05:26 PM
I agree! I think they all could fit the part at this point and I don't know what to think...
Nora Charles
04-10-2009, 06:08 PM
That's why I haven't voted yet. So many look guilty that I couldn't decide. I was leaning toward Williams, but with Huckaby's suitcase article I'm back toward the Lawless Family. I'll vote after LE announces an arrest. J/K!!
In case you aren't aware:
Article: http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Woman%20in%20mobile%20home%20park%20reported%20mis sing%20suitcase%20=&page_label=home&id=2298054-Woman+in+mobile+home+park+reported+missing+suitcas e&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open
Link about it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3584904#post3584904
We need a sub-thread entitled, "Now, if you could change your POI vote...." I vacillate back and forth on these guys too much, and we might still have "other(s)" as the eventual correct answer.
Storm
04-10-2009, 06:37 PM
Oops!
I need to change my vote! I convicted the wrong person, I'm sure:(
Man, glad this isn't a jury:)
I'm changing my vote to F Williams..he just fits from what we know about him..and it seems to me he's sort of just surfaced as a POI to us?
^i^
That's why I haven't voted yet. So many look guilty that I couldn't decide. I was leaning toward Williams, but with Huckaby's suitcase article I'm back toward the Lawless Family. I'll vote after LE announces an arrest. J/K!!
In case you aren't aware:
Article: http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Woman%20in%20mobile%20home%20park%20reported%20mis sing%20suitcase%20=&page_label=home&id=2298054-Woman+in+mobile+home+park+reported+missing+suitcas e&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open
Link about it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3584904#post3584904
Beyond Belief
04-10-2009, 08:07 PM
Hmm the chick with the suitcase gone. Either she has been stealing the stuff around the neighborhood and Sandra saw something or she backed over Sandra with the car.
txsvicki
04-10-2009, 09:23 PM
I'm going with Fred W. right now because of the eye witness Johnny, the silverado report, possibly having a boat, having keys to the church, mentioning the luggage, the possible writer of the forgiveness note from Sandra (yuck), his criminal record, his wife's criminal record, the thefts in his neighborhood, and having reason to be in and out of the trailer park. Also, it's hinky that Melinda says she has no knowledge of her supposed target shoplifting and other crimes. She could possibly somehow involved even if she doesn't realize it.
daisy.faithfull
04-12-2009, 05:24 AM
I had to put in who I suspected when the poll went up, Lawless, because I wanted to know who others were thinking at that time as well. Just wanted to explain because I know that there is a more current poll...
oh_gal
04-14-2009, 08:53 AM
This is pure speculation on my part, but when I heard that someone reported that a suitcase for the church rummage sale was stolen from the back of a car, my immediate thought was......"hmmm......that would make a very convenient alibi for the killer (if the killer was the person who reported it stolen).
........or maybe I've been watching too many crime dramas...
So....I guess my choice for POI.....is "Other"
Just when you think it can't get any worse, new details emerge...
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