Canada-Victoria Stafford, 8, Woodstock, Ontario; thread #1

[jaycee]

Ontario girl, 8, missing; person of interest sought

Updated: Thu Apr. 09 2009 11:18:48 PM

CTV.ca News Staff

Police in Woodstock, Ont. say they are looking for a person of interest after an eight-year-old girl went missing on Wednesday.

Victoria (Tori) Stafford, a third-grader, was reported missing after she did not return home from Oliver Stephens Public School Wednesday. Police say there is no evidence yet that she was abducted and therefore have not released an Amber Alert.

But police say they have obtained surveillance video from a nearby high school of a person believed to be Tori, CTV's David Imrie said Thursday evening. A girl matching her description was seen walking with someone police are calling "a person of interest".

Police say they are looking for a white woman, aged 19-25, about 120-125 pounds, with a black ponytail and who was wearing black jeans and a white puffy jacket.

The footage was taken Wednesday. The high school is close to the elementary school Tori attends.

Tori is about four foot five inches, 62 pounds and has blue eyes and short blonde hair. She was last seen warning a denim skirt, a green shirt and a black Hannah Montana jacket with a fur-lined hood.

Police started a door-to-door search late Wednesday. They began an ground search at first light Thursday with about 40 officers and canine units.

Flyers of Tori have been plastered all over Woodstock, a city of about 30,000, 125 kilometres southwest of Toronto.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090409/victoria_missing_090409/20090409/?hub=TorontoNewHome

[jaycee]

Police release video (click to see video)


WOODSTOCK - The girl in a surveillance video has been positively identified as missing eight-year-old Victoria Stafford, Oxford Community Police Service investigators announced late Thursday.

The video, taken by a College Avenue Secondary School video camera, shows Stafford walking northbound along Fyfe Avenue near the intersection with Walter Street at 3:32 pm Wednesday, around the same time the Grade 3 pupil left Oliver Stephens Public School.

She was with an unidentified woman.

Police are now looking to identify the unknown woman. She is described as being between 19 and 25 years old with long black hair.

The woman was wearing a white winter parka and tight blue jeans.

Officers from the OCPS, Waterloo Regional Police Service, London Police Service, the London Search and Rescue, the Woodstock Fire Department and the OPP were involved in the search.

“It’s a systematic ground search,” said OCPS chief Ron Fraser.

Fraser said the search for Stafford is bigger than any operation the OCPS has mounted in recent years.

“A regular investigation takes a lot of manpower. This is a lot of people to throw out there,” said Fraser.

Victoria "Tori" Stafford was last seen after she left Oliver Stephens Public School, where she was a Grade 3 student.

About 40 police from the OCPS, Waterloo Regional Police Service, London Police Service, London Search and Rescue, the Woodstock Fire Department and the OPP, including canine units, have joined in the search.

Fraser said they would continue to draw officers from neighbouring municipalities for as long as the search lasted.

“We’re exploring all possible leads and have not ruled out any possibilities,” Oxford OPP Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland said.

Barb Murray, a local parent and former neighbour of Tori, said the girl was supposed to go to her uncle’s townhouse located in the Trillium co-op after school.

Murray said it was out of character for the girl not to show up.

“For a little girl to be missing for so long is devastating to us,” she said.

Family friend Heather Baker, who was handing out posters of the missing eight-year-old to local traffic, said Tori is a good friend of her daughter.

She said that Tori moved with her mother from their home in the Fyfe Street co-op to a home on Francis Street less than a week ago.

Baker said both Tori’s mother and father were out searching last night for the girl.

Baker said her disappearance has left the community feeling “terrified, scared and sad.”

“I have a little girl the same age,” she said. “It’s a parent’s worst nightmare. It’s a community’s worst nightmare.”

Baker said shortly after 7:30 p.m., police began to search for the child, combing parks and school yards for the lost child.

Tori is described as four foot five inches (134 centimetres) tall and weighs 62 pounds (28 kilograms). She has blue eyes and blonde hair cut just below her ears.

“She’s a really good little girl,” Baker said. “She’s absolutely beautiful.”

Tori was reportedly wearing a green shirt, a denim skirt, black and white shoes and a black Hannah Montana jacket with a white fur-lined hood. She may have been carrying a purple and pink Bratz purse.

Police said they have no reason at this time to suspect foul play but they are not ruling it out.

Maitland said police have not organized a community ground search because they don’t have the resources to co-ordinate a large-scale effort but also because they don’t want possible evidence contaminated.

“At the same time, we want (community members) to keep their eyes peeled,” she said.

Two Facebook groups have sprung up in the wake of Tori's disappearance both called “Help Find Victoria Stafford.”

On one site, members questioned why police did not issue an Amber Alert sooner.

However Tori’s disappearance does not meet the criteria for an Amber Alert, Maitland said.

Amber Alert criteria includes a confirmed abduction, a credible belief the victim is in danger and a description of the abductee and the abductor.

Kate Young, spokesperson for the Thames Valley District School Board, said a traumatic events response unit was called to Oliver Stephens for students that had questions and concerns.

“We’re not dealing with a tragedy right now,” Young said. “We have no reason to believe she won’t be found.”

“But the longer we go without hearing the more we worry.”

Young said a letter describing the circumstances of the incidence is currently being sent home to parents.

Anyone with information is asked to call the OCPS at (519) 537-2323 or Crimestoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

Click here for video http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.c...aspx?e=1518580

[KaylynnCouture]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090410.wmissing0410/BNStory/National/home

Another article with a copy of the flyer that is being distributed across Ontario.

:rose: Praying she comes home soon!

[Crazy Canuck]

Here are some media links I found. Not much new information but they give a little more info about Tori and her parents, including the correct name of her dad. In another article here he was identified as some other guy with a different last name.

A reward of 10,000 has been offered.

Police defend their decision about the amber alert in response to the facebook group that is outraged that one wasn't called.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of media attention on this case yet and I'm not sure why. We have video proof that she was taken by someone who the parents don't know. Its strange. If this happened in the states the media would be all over it. A beautiful little blond girl whose abduction was caught on video makes for a great story.

Hoping that this little darling is found safe.

Do we know if the parents are together or separated? It kind of sounds like they were separated in one of the first articles that talked about Tori recently moving with her mother.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090409/victoria_missing_090410/20090410?hub=Canada&s_name=

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090411.MISSING11ART2153/TPStory/TPNational/?page=rss&id=GAM.20090411.MISSING11ART2153

[Crazy Canuck]

Tori's dad has been identified as James Goris and Rodney Stafford. I'm wondering if Goris is her stepfather?

What if this is a custody situation? Stafford's girlfriend (who Tori knew) abducted her and hid her away? Farfetched but we've got to get some theories going here.

We've been given very little info to work with.

[jaycee]

Tori's dad has been identified as James Goris and Rodney Stafford. I'm wondering if Goris is her stepfather?

What if this is a custody situation? Stafford's girlfriend (who Tori knew) abducted her and hid her away? Farfetched but we've got to get some theories going here.

We've been given very little info to work with.I've been confused too. Let's hope it is a custody situation because the alternative is not good. Truthfully tho, I don't think this is a family thing.

I'll be checking this out all day. I'm not all that far away, east of Toronto.

[KaylynnCouture]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1520024

Video at the link. Police are asking residents to search their own properties for signs of the missing girl as the search enters it's 3rd day.

[kaas]

The police and family are giving very little information to the media. We have not seen any helicopters since Thursday. Volunteer searchers were out yesterday, overseen by police. Nothing so far, nor has there been any information about the woman that was seen in the video, or even if they were able to identify and speak to the man they walked past.

[ChaChaCha]

We live in the area as well, and passed thru Woodstock as we normally do to take my daughter back to London... it's our favorite route. Woodstock is a beautiful little city, perched right beside the 401 and 403 - both major highways running east to Toronto and west to Windsor. We did not see any search activity at 4pm - but the outlying area is expansive and very treed with many little creeks and rivers I wish that an Amber Alert had been posted immediately upon discovering that Tori was missing for exactly this reason. In the video of Tori and the young woman, you can see traffic passing behind them, and an earlier alert might have jogged someone's memory. In addition to the highway, there are numerous smaller highways with little traffic leading out of town to rural areas. My prayers are with Tori and her family.

[Brwnigirl]

She is missing and the person in the video is identified as a person of interest. How can they not suspect foul play?

[kaas]

I do not understand at this point how this could not be an amber alert situation. But we must give trust to the local police force in this situation. We were out on atv's today checking our property/bush etc as well as neighbours. Is all we can do. So frustrating. I do hope this child is found well soon.

[jaycee]

Mystery deepens in case of missing girl

No one recognizes woman seen in video with Tori Stafford, baffling family, police

April 12, 2009

WOODSTOCK, Ont. – Rodney Stafford has seen the blurry, minute-long surveillance video more than a thousand times but, for the life of him, says he cannot recognize the woman walking off with his 8-year-old daughter, Victoria.

"I keep going through it hoping to find something that will identify (the woman), but there's nothing," a tearful Stafford said yesterday. "It almost looks as if she's skipping and is happy to be with the woman. But who is the woman; I have no idea."

It's the question on everyone's mind.

Victoria, known to her friends as Tori, was last seen leaving Oliver Stephens school, where she is a Grade 3 student, at 3:32 p.m. Wednesday. A blurry image captured by a nearby high school's camera showed Tori accompanied by a woman. Police are calling the woman a "person of interest" and are asking her to come forward to help with the investigation.

Four days, a massive search operation and at least 200 tips later, there is no clue to what happened to Tori, or the identity of the woman in the video.

Stafford and Tara McDonald, Tori's mother, separated a few months ago. Stafford said he regularly sees Tori and Daryn, his 10-year-old son. The day Tori went missing, the children were supposed to spend the night with him.

Except for one TV interview, McDonald, who neighbours say lives with her boyfriend and children, has not spoken to the media. There was no one at her Frances St. home yesterday.

Drew Long, her next-door neighbour, said he's seen her leaving the house early every day "and she always looks as if she's been crying."

Stafford, speaking outside the police station yesterday, ruled out the involvement of anyone in the family. "No, there is no disgruntled family at all. This makes no sense," he said, waving posters with the missing child's photo and description.

"I am totally crushed but I am not going to give up hope," said the distraught father, choking back tears.

"My little girl is out there somewhere and she will be home soon – that is my belief."

But he admits he is beginning to panic as time goes by.

"You cannot take two steps without seeing Tori's face (on missing posters) stuck on a wall or glued to a window. It's all over newspapers, TV and radio but there is still no clue to where she is."

Police, too, are calling it a highly unusual case.

"Looking at the video, it's easy for me to say Tori is not resisting (the woman)," said Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland. "That means she knows her and it makes me hopeful that she is well. Sometimes, people take kids because they love them."

In many disappearances, there are sightings or some indication of what may have happened. "There is almost nothing here," said Maitland. "And if we didn't have the video surveillance, we wouldn't have had anything at all."

But the lack of evidence of foul play keeps Maitland hopeful that Tori is alive and well. "If we found her jacket in a creek, I would think of the worst. But we haven't."

The deepening mystery has consumed Woodstock, a city of 36,000 about 45 kilometres east of London. Almost every business has a colour poster glued on either the door or the window; every home in the Frances St. neighbourhood, where Tori's family had recently moved, has a similar flyer.

Talk in the city revolves around the disappearance.

At a Pizza Pizza, a group of teens sat clutching a sheaf of posters. "We are just taking a break from handing these out," said Tendra Murray, a high school student. "Tori and what happened to her is on everyone's mind."

Brenda Fitzmaurice and her husband, Marcel, former neighbours of Tori's on Fyfe Ave., handed out flyers at a nearby plaza. "This is a close-knit community and everyone knows everyone," said Brenda. "We are surprised no one has recognized the woman (in the video)."

Maitland Darragh, who lives on Fyfe Ave., has glued the posters on all the windows of his van. "Someone, somewhere is bound to recognize her. It can't be a mystery forever."

Meanwhile, supported by search and rescue personnel, police used boats and dogs to look for the missing girl yesterday. Firefighters searched Brick Pond, in the city's east end, and on the opposite side of the city, officers combed the banks of the Thames River.

Search groups trudged through surrounding parks, riverside paths and railway tracks.

Last night, Tori's family organized a public show of support and handed out purple ribbons even as dozens of people from Ingersoll, London and Stratford and other communities joined in the search.

A family friend has organized a candlelight vigil for 8 p.m. tonight in downtown Woodstock.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/617197

[CentralAlberta]

Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, called the video of his daughter "disturbing."

"To actually see Victoria skipping alongside this person, it's rather obvious that she knows who she's with," he said.

Bolded by me. If Tori knows who this person is, why does no one else recognize her? Someone in her family, school, church(if she attends), after school club etc. should recognize this "upstanding member of the community." I think there are many grade 3ers who would go with a pretty young woman who had a puppy/kitten for her that her mom said she could have, especially if Darin (brother) was already there picking one out. Our society has pounded all the stranger info. into children's heads we can. (I am a grade 4 teacher and talk to my students about it lots.) We go over all kinds of different circumstances and what they should do and they ALL can TELL you what to do. However, when the real time comes, I believe there are many who would go with the stranger especially if they knew the child's name and family member's name, etc., 'You mom wants me to take you to . . . to meet her there', and on and on. It takes a pretty strong child to say no to an adult.

[ChaChaCha]

Tori's dad is saving the Easter treats for when she returns. The City of Woodstock is still desperately searching for Tori, and a form of "Amber Alert" has finally been issued.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2009/04/12/9094431.html

[brighidin]

Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, called the video of his daughter "disturbing."

"To actually see Victoria skipping alongside this person, it's rather obvious that she knows who she's with," he said.

Bolded by me. If Tori knows who this person is, why does no one else recognize her? Someone in her family, school, church(if she attends), after school club etc. should recognize this "upstanding member of the community." I think there are many grade 3ers who would go with a pretty young woman who had a puppy/kitten for her that her mom said she could have, especially if Darin (brother) was already there picking one out. Our society has pounded all the stranger info. into children's heads we can. (I am a grade 4 teacher and talk to my students about it lots.) We go over all kinds of different circumstances and what they should do and they ALL can TELL you what to do. However, when the real time comes, I believe there are many who would go with the stranger especially if they knew the child's name and family member's name, etc., 'You mom wants me to take you to . . . to meet her there', and on and on. It takes a pretty strong child to say no to an adult.

I agree. I also thought this quote was odd: "Looking at the video, it's easy for me to say Tori is not resisting (the woman)," said Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland. "That means she knows her and it makes me hopeful that she is well. Sometimes, people take kids because they love them."

Not resisting doesn't automatically mean knowing the person. It saddens me that a police officer is jumping to that conclusion. And I don't even have the time to go into what is wrong with the last sentence.

I saw a bit of an interview with Tori's Mom on CTV nat'l news tonight. So sad.

[eachandevery]

I'm in Toronto, and this story is all over the news. I know they've defended their position, but I just don't understand why an Amber Alert hasn't been issued. So what if they THINK she's with someone she knows? A huge assumption in a missing child case is a dangerous thing. I really hope the police are right, and that Victoria is returned to her parents unharmed.

[CentralAlberta]

Aren't Amber Alerts sometimes given out when a child is taken by a parent? Let's assume for a minute Tori did know the woman she went with. Sandra Canto knew the woman she was with too . . .

Where is our NG or JVM here in Canada? We need somebody who is on this story and is not going to let it disappear until Tori's is found and her abductor is brought to justice.

[CentralAlberta]

Ontario Provincial Police have assigned a special unit to their investigation into the disappearance of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford.

The unit will focus on creating a profile of the person who may have taken the third grader.

Recent Article

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090413/Stafford_girl_090413/20090413?hub=TopStories

[CentralAlberta]

Here is a wonderful tribute to TOri's situation. Have tissue on hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deIiJLaZ9Jk

[CentralAlberta]

11:45 am MST
Live press release - (by constable not involved with case)

Police ground search now concluded.
Profiling info. will most likely not be given out unless investigation prgresses to point that something can be given out.
Police believe Tori is still alive - they haven't found anything to indicate foul play.
People on street know more than this constable knows (???WHAT??)
Hopeful community will keep their eyes and ears open. (dah)
Over 300 phoned in tips

I can't believe this 'live' press release. The constable couldn't answer the majority of the questions reporters asked her because she wasn't on the case. I'm sure some were answer that she couldn't give even if she knew them, but someone who was on the case should have at least been reporting. This has not increase my confidence in the LE involved in this case. In fact I am worried about the quality of this LE. They do not look at all profession by doing this type of PR.

[Idaho4Groenes]

I haven't checked in on this thread much, but I am still praying for Tori and her family, and hoping for good news soon.

Also, about the statement from the press release..."Police believe Tori is still alive - they haven't found anything to indicate foul play"...that's pretty darn close to exactly what police were saying about Sandra. I hope they are right this time.

[Lexiintoronto]

Here is a wonderful tribute to TOri's situation. Have tissue on hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deIiJLaZ9Jk
I think that's the most moving video for a missing person that I've ever seen. Thank you for posting that.

It makes me proud to be Canadian to see what the people of Woodstock are doing to support Tori's family.

[brighidin]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html
"Police call off ground search for Ontario girl"
I'm still mad that the police spokesperson keeps saying that because there is no evidence of a struggle in that grainy video, it isn't an abduction. " "An abduction says that it’s taken by force. We have her willingly walking away," Maitland told reporters Monday"

How do they know that woman didn't say "Walk all happy like you know me or I will shoot you" and showed her a gun, or a knife? Or even the classic "Can you help me find my lost puppy" Or "hey, do you want to be in a Jonas brother's video? Come with me and we'll go talk to your parents!"

Just some examples, but they really are bring stubbornly naive here, IMO.

[ChaChaCha]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html
"Police call off ground search for Ontario girl"
I'm still mad that the police spokesperson keeps saying that because there is no evidence of a struggle in that grainy video, it isn't an abduction. " "An abduction says that it’s taken by force. We have her willingly walking away," Maitland told reporters Monday"

How do they know that woman didn't say "Walk all happy like you know me or I will shoot you" and showed her a gun, or a knife? Or even the classic "Can you help me find my lost puppy" Or "hey, do you want to be in a Jonas brother's video? Come with me and we'll go talk to your parents!"

Just some examples, but they really are bring stubbornly naive here, IMO.

This is driving me crazy as well... I can only hope that the police have information regarding the identity of the mystery woman and are working behind the scenes to bring Tori home unharmed. I am concerned that a female is involved to lure Tori away... but the police theories at this point are that she may have known this individual, that women abductors want a child of their own or are abducting on behalf of a male companion... In any case, this child needs to be returned to her parents whose hearts are obviously breaking.

Regarding the calling off of the ground search - I am stunned. I understand that police are following up on the video of the woman and Tori, but wish that continued efforts be made to locate the girl by searching the area thoroughly. That and the fact that an "Amber Alert" has not been sent out means that valuable time and resources may be wasted while this case is still fresh.

Apparently police resources from our area (we are nearby) have been called in to assist. I certainly hope that there is a break in the case now!

[Lexiintoronto]

Police have released an enhanced version of the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg

The person Tori is with appears quite young, and it appears as though Tori is hesitating at the end of the clip: suddenly there's distance between the two of them and Tori looks as though she's going to stop walking.

[jaycee]

Police actions at issue in Victoria Stafford case
U.S. centre for missing children questions policies

14th April 2009, 10:46am


A national U.S. centre for missing children is questioning why police in Woodstock took up to 12 hours to publicly announce eight-year-old Victoria Stafford had disappeared.

Oxford Community Police yesterday called off the ground search for the girl, five days into her disappearance, and after a massive effort by police and volunteers, saying they're now treating the case as a missing persons investigation.

When a child goes missing in the U.S., law enforcement agencies are required to notify the FBI within two hours, Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Virginia, said yesterday.

That's because data shows that in the most serious cases, a missing child is murdered within three hours, he said.

"You cannot wait until tomorrow -- the greatest likelihood of finding a child alive occurs in the early moments," Allan said.

Stafford was first reported missing to police in Woodstock about 6 p.m. last Wednesday.

However, police didn't publicly report her gone until early the next morning.

The era when police waited until the next day to report a missing child was standard 20 years ago -- but not acceptable today, Allen said.

"The concern is that one should never assume there is an innocent explanation. You have to move very quickly."

In the U.S. a missing child report results in an immediate report filed into the FBI computer database, so law enforcement agencies can quickly begin investigating.

Oxford Community Police did have information filed to the Canadian Police Information Centre -- a computer system linking police nationwide -- before midnight Wednesday, Const. Laurie Ann Maitland said yesterday.

But Maitland was "not certain" why reports of the girl's disappearance went to a few local radio stations early the next morning and to a wider number of media at 6 a.m. -- 12 hours after police learned the Grade 3 girl was missing.

"It may be because people were out searching," she said, adding day-shift officers were going door-to-door and the night shift doesn't usually send out news releases.

That public notification through the media is different than the so-called Amber Alert, the Canadian emergency broadcast system when children under 18 are both believed abducted and at risk of serious bodily harm.

Despite criticism by some over the failure to issue an Amber Alert in the Woodstock case, police have maintained they did not have the information needed -- for example, evidence of an abduction and description of a suspect or a vehicle -- to satisfy the strict rules to trigger an alert.

Besides early public notification, Allen questioned why the RCMP, which has a National Missing Children Service, hasn't been called in to help, calling them "exemplary" and "world leaders" in finding missing kids.

"I would be very surprised if they are not involved. The RCMP do outstanding work," he said.

But police in Woodstock believe they have enough "major case" experience with London and Waterloo Region Police helping in the case.

The OPP were also asked to help in the ground search Sunday, although an OPP helicopter was used last Thursday.

"We have a lot of support -- it is not just us," said Maitland, who wasn't certain yesterday if the RCMP will be notified.

Data shows "a vast majority" -- more than 99% -- of missing children are found safe, said Allen.

But he wasn't surprised Stafford was last seen walking with an unidentified woman, captured on a video camera from nearby College Avenue secondary school.

Research shows that in cases where a non-family member is involved in an abduction, 25% are women and in the case of infants, women are the primary abductors, he said.

Police in Woodstock have not called the Stafford case an abduction.

As for why Stafford may have gone with that person, "children believe what they are told," Allen said.

A prominent case in the U.S. about 10 years ago saw a nine-year-old girl taken by her babysitter, who told the child her mother wanted her to come with her.

The child went with the woman and was found nine months later.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/04/14/9108846-sun.html

[ella's mom]

Quote from above article: Police in Woodstock have not called the Stafford case an abduction.


How can the Woodstock police not call this an abduction case? The child was last seen with a person that at this point no one that knows her can identify. She is missing for way too long at this point. WTH???

Sounds like an abduction to me. But what do I know??

[eachandevery]

I don't understand why the ground search has been called off and, more importantly, I don't understand why this isn't classified as an abduction, as well. The parents don't know who the person is; Tori's mom apparently supplied police with a list of potential suspects, but none of them panned out. The police are saying that the benefit of small town missing persons cases is that people know each other's business, but HOW do they know this is someone local? So much time was wasted in the beginning of this case, and I really hope it doesn't result in a negative outcome. I don't want to be too critical of the Woodstock police department, but it's a pretty small town and it seems unlikely they're familiar with these types of cases. In my opinion, they need help, and they need it fast. One interesting thing, to me, is that Tori's mother has said that Tori never walks but "hops, runs and bounces" which, she says, shows that Tori is not her normal self in that video.

An article from the Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617984

[CentralAlberta]

I don't understand why the ground search has been called off and, more importantly, I don't understand why this isn't classified as an abduction, as well. The parents don't know who the person is; Tori's mom apparently supplied police with a list of potential suspects, but none of them panned out. The police are saying that the benefit of small town missing persons cases is that people know each other's business, but HOW do they know this is someone local? So much time was wasted in the beginning of this case, and I really hope it doesn't result in a negative outcome. I don't want to be too critical of the Woodstock police department, but it's a pretty small town and it seems unlikely they're familiar with these[/[B]B] types of cases. In my opinion, they need help, and they need it fast. One interesting thing, to me, is that Tori's mother has said that Tori never walks but "hops, runs and bounces" which, she says, shows that Tori is not her normal self in that video.

An article from the Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617984

Bolded by me. I critized them earlier and I will critize them again. This is the worst police work I have ever seen. :mad::mad: I can't believe they still don't believe this is an abduction. The first time I saw that video I noticed how Tori was walking 'behind' that person. The further they walked the further behind Tori got. Have they talked to the man that is standing there? Have they even attempted to find him? If I were Tori's parent/aunt or grandma I would be at that police department putting soooo much pressure on them they would not be able to stand me by the time this was done. I would be getting lawyered up and not for my protection but to be putting pressure on them to do their job. Maybe, we the public, need to be trying to put pressure on them. Anhyone have any ideas how we could do this because it seems there are a few of us who are totally disgusted with the way they are handling this case.:furious:

[badme102]

I'm not sure where to ask this or not, but I've heard somewhere about local Walmarts being involved in a missing children program. I live in Windsor, ON, and I just called one of the Walmarts here and they don't have Victoria on their "Missing Board". The manager told me that they have to be notified by the RCMP before they can do this? Is this true?

[CentralAlberta]

I'm not sure where to ask this or not, but I've heard somewhere about local Walmarts being involved in a missing children program. I live in Windsor, ON, and I just called one of the Walmarts here and they don't have Victoria on their "Missing Board". The manager told me that they have to be notified by the RCMP before they can do this? Is this true?


I always look at those posters and they are the same ones that are at the RCMP offices but I don't know if the RCMP notifies Walmart or if they get the posters from the RCMP. Will the RCMP have any poster of TS since they aren't involved in this case? Has LE actually handed out/produced any posters of TS or is this all being done by volunteers?

[badme102]

I always look at those posters and they are the same ones that are at the RCMP offices but I don't know if the RCMP notifies Walmart or if they get the posters from the RCMP. Will the RCMP have any poster of TS since they aren't involved in this case? Has LE actually handed out/produced any posters of TS or is this all being done by volunteers?

I really don't know. This all seems so disorganized, but obviously, I'm not there. I specifically asked the Walmart manager if I printed some up, could they put them on the board and he said, "No, we're not allowed to place posters on our board, unless notified by the RCMP"...:confused:

Like you said, A lot of good that's going to do if they're not involved in the first place. :mad:

I'm thinking of calling my local RCMP office to see what they have to say. I mean, this is a missing child! She could be anywhere by now!
Sorry I'm so upset, it's just ridiculous, IMO.

[Crazy Canuck]

I live in southern ontario and I can tell you that stranger abductions of children are very rare around here and therefore the police don't have the experience that their fellow officers in the states do. That said, unfortuantely, the toronto police have lots of experience as the majority of our child abduction/murders that come to mind occurred in that city with the exception of the Bernardo murders. Perhaps they should call in these detectives who know firsthand that missing children do usually turn up dead in the real world...they don't usually return unless they were abducted by a parent.

[Crazy Canuck]

Just wanted to add: hopefully they don't call the Peel or Niagara police who handled the bernardo cases and they couldn't solve those murders and never did until Karla came forward.

[badme102]

WOW! I just can't believe it! Nancy Grace just had a little tidbit on Victoria! I'm amazed, to be honest. I'll try and post a youtube link when I can.

[Scanner]

I also was impressed that Nancy's show did a bit on the Woodstock girl. She should have been found by now IMO - there can't be THAT many people in a town of 30,000 who wear white puffy coats!!! I was glad to see missing posters in a town about an hour south of Woodstock over the weekend. Her picture was at each check-out counter in a highly visible area. I think I read one of the articles today that says that the RCMP has not been requested to help. As much as blaming the police takes the focus off of this missing angel, someone needs to step up to the plate here and make up for almost a week of lost time. Let's hope and pray and get this girl back to her family already!

[coldcasedetective]

That is really surprising that it was on Nancy Grace! I figured case exposure would be limited to Ontario. I didn't even expect the exposure that Cecilia Zhang or Holly Jones received, since Woodstock is about 2hrs from the GTA.
I really wish that local police would start calling this what it is - an abduction. I've been to the school that the surveillance tape caught her on, and it would have been possible for this woman to have hid rather easily. There are a lot of corners and alcoves - so I believe that this woman probably surprised her when she left her school.

[Turbododger]

Does anyone know WHY there was a delay between 3:30 pm and 6:00 pm in reporting Tori missing? Where was she SUPPOSED to be, and who was supposed to have her?

[Lexiintoronto]

Just a thought: why can't the army reserves be called in to help when a child goes missing? In Toronto a few years ago the Mayor (Mel Lastman) called in the army to clear snow when we were hit by a few blizzards (yes, we were ridiculed by the rest of Canada for this; yes we were mortified that he did that. But that's beside the point...).

If the army is available for emergencies, couldn't they be used in a child abduction even if it's for the first few days? They could canvass the area, lead volunteer searches, man road blocks etc.

[coldcasedetective]

I just saw on the local news that her family's old apartment (apparently they moved a month ago) was investigated by the OPP. I can't imagine what they would be looking for....

[Danaya]

I don't know why but it seems like the cases that get the most attention on WS are American children. Is it because majority of posters are American and don't feel they relate to Canadians? I am Canadian but am actively involved in American cases here, it makes no difference to me. I know there are quite a few cases but not much exposure here, except for the Jessie Foster case because she dissapeared in Vegas. Oh well.

[coldcasedetective]

I completely agree, I mean I know that as a country we have considerably less non-family abductions, however if you were to ask my parents to name missing persons most of them are American. Even in Canada we hear more about American cases than we do. It's just kind of sad.

[Lexiintoronto]

I think it's because we get so many American tv stations that broadcast missing US children, but I doubt that's true in reverse. I don't think many Americans are watching the CBC or CTV.

[badme102]

I think it's because we get so many American tv stations that broadcast missing US children, but I doubt that's true in reverse. I don't think many Americans are watching the CBC or CTV.

You are absolutely right. To be honest, I don't watch much Canadian TV myself. Even if I did, they don't seem to pay as much attention as they do in the US.

Like another poster said, we need a Nancy Grace! I know she can be a bit....um...forward, but we still need someone like that, IMO.

[CentralAlberta]

I just saw on the local news that her family's old apartment (apparently they moved a month ago) was investigated by the OPP. I can't imagine what they would be looking for....

Maybe because Tori knew the woman (grrr) from the last apartment building. HOWEVER . . . I think Mom would have recognized who she was, maybe not here personally, but was familiar with her. I also think the police have access to computers that can bring that woman in a whole lot closer and still be in focus. Why hasn't one of those videos been released yet? If they don't, maybe some of us could offer to pay a company to do the work for them. I'm pretty sure there are many places out there that would do the work for free in a case like this but I still don't believe there isn't a police force/RCMP in Canada that doesn't have the capablity to do this. These guys AREN'T DOING THEIR JOB. :furious: In addition, if this is NOT an abduction, why has this woman not let Tori call home. Surely she knows what is going on in the media. For sure she knows she took Tori without her parents' permission, which is what I call an ABDUCTION!! I can't stand this any longer. I am writing a letter to the editor of the Woodstock paper, even though I don't know what the paper is right now, I will find it.

I get so angry with this case. Thanks for letting me rant. Now I can go to work. I'm praying by the time I get home Tori will be safe at home.

[jaycee]

Tori's parents take lie detector


April 15, 2009

WOODSTOCK, ONT. – Victoria Stafford's estranged parents have taken lie detector tests and their previous relationships are under intense scrutiny even as a small army of friends, family and strangers continues to search for their missing 8-year-old daughter.

While Oxford Community Police refused to comment last night on the polygraph tests, friends of Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford, Victoria's parents, said the two underwent the tests over the Easter long weekend.

But Sgt. Elaina Taylor, one of the detectives on the case, said she could not comment on "which way the investigation is going." She also refused to discuss whether former partners of the parents were under scrutiny.

Victoria, known as Tori to friends and family, vanished a week ago after leaving Oliver Stephens Public School, where she is a Grade 3 student. She was seen on surveillance video walking with an unidentified woman. Woodstock, a community of about 36,000 people 145 kilometres southwest of Toronto, has since been on edge.

Since Tori disappeared, her parents have maintained they do not know the identity of the woman their daughter seemed to willingly walk away with. Police, who released an enhanced video of the surveillance footage on Monday, have said everyone who knows or had contact with the missing girl is a potential suspect in her disappearance.

Meanwhile, about 100 people continued to search around the clock for Tori even though police called off a ground search Monday morning.

Lee Graves, a close friend of the missing girl's father, said people split up in groups of two and three and have scoured Woodstock's streets, back streets, parks, ponds, wetlands and the surrounding area for any sign of Tori.

"Yes, we are going to places again and again in the hope that we may find something we had overlooked earlier," Graves said last night as he prepared to go to the golf course in the southwest part of the city with friend Amy Peaty.

Dressed in thick jackets and boots, and carrying flashlights and sticks, they stopped to search garbage dumpsters on the way to the golf course. "Ì don't mind jumping into the dumpsters, too," said Graves, as he rummaged through a pile of abandoned bits and pieces of furniture on a sidewalk.

Peaty said they are looking for anything – a shoe, a jacket, sunglasses.

"If it was my daughter who was missing, I would expect the entire town to help look for her," she said.

The number of volunteers looking for Tori dwindled over the weekend, but Graves vowed the search will "continue until we find Tori or something. You just cannot sit back. There are all these questions and no answers."

Counsellors at Oliver Stephens Public School struggled with questions from children yesterday as classes resumed after the long weekend.

"Children are scared, stressed and anxious," said Sally Christensen, a psychologist who was at the school. "They have been asking if they can also be kidnapped. But mostly they are very worried about Tori's safety."


http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/618600

[Kat]

I saw Tori on Nancy Grace last night, I hope NG continues to give her a time slot (very short but at least it's something).

[Sheromom]

Maybe because Tori knew the woman (grrr) from the last apartment building. HOWEVER . . . I think Mom would have recognized who she was, maybe not here personally, but was familiar with her. I also think the police have access to computers that can bring that woman in a whole lot closer and still be in focus. Why hasn't one of those videos been released yet? If they don't, maybe some of us could offer to pay a company to do the work for them. I'm pretty sure there are many places out there that would do the work for free in a case like this but I still don't believe there isn't a police force/RCMP in Canada that doesn't have the capablity to do this. These guys AREN'T DOING THEIR JOB. :furious: In addition, if this is NOT an abduction, why has this woman not let Tori call home. Surely she knows what is going on in the media. For sure she knows she took Tori without her parents' permission, which is what I call an ABDUCTION!! I can't stand this any longer. I am writing a letter to the editor of the Woodstock paper, even though I don't know what the paper is right now, I will find it.

I get so angry with this case. Thanks for letting me rant. Now I can go to work. I'm praying by the time I get home Tori will be safe at home.

I'm so with you on this one! The video is just too far away, I think, for anyone to recognize the woman. I don't understand why they haven't focused in on the woman and released the enhancement internationally. This is a beautiful little girl and it is like no one is really doing much to find her other than some volunteers who are working separate from the police. It's crazy. I'm surprised the community itself isn't in an uproar and demanding more.

[debs]

This person, whoever s/he may be, walked BOLD AS BRASS right to the school and walked off with this child, people standing around. S/he's comfortable being there, has been there before, would be my guess. Substitute teacher? School aid? Nurse who may have a "god" complex and wants to save Tori from whatever? Tori is comfortable enough to walk quite a distance before we see any reluctance from her in falling a few steps behind the person. In fact, I may be mistaken, but this person's arms are around Tori's shoulders, and Tori has her arm around this person's waist. Bad video, worse eyes. Someone else can check that for me.

It doesn't change the fact that this person was AT THE SCHOOL, was AROUND people, felt COMFORTABLE enough to walk out with Tori, walk down the street with her, and finally, walk off with her.

(I just checked; I'm the only one even viewing this thread right now. Does that ennui strike others when they're looking through the list on this thread to see they're the only visitor on a particular page?)

[badme102]

This person, whoever s/he may be, walked BOLD AS BRASS right to the school and walked off with this child, people standing around. S/he's comfortable being there, has been there before, would be my guess. Substitute teacher? School aid? Nurse who may have a "god" complex and wants to save Tori from whatever? Tori is comfortable enough to walk quite a distance before we see any reluctance from her in falling a few steps behind the person. In fact, I may be mistaken, but this person's arms are around Tori's shoulders, and Tori has her arm around this person's waist. Bad video, worse eyes. Someone else can check that for me.

It doesn't change the fact that this person was AT THE SCHOOL, was AROUND people, felt COMFORTABLE enough to walk out with Tori, walk down the street with her, and finally, walk off with her.

(I just checked; I'm the only one even viewing this thread right now. Does that ennui strike others when they're looking through the list on this thread to see they're the only visitor on a particular page?)

Hi Debs! :wave:
I do get a strange feeling when on a thread myself. I wish this one was a jam packed as some of the others, though. :(

I think I must have worse eyes than you because I don't see them touching at all. (shoulders or waist), so your guess is as good as mine.

I also agree with what you said about the perp being comfortable being there. Every single time I watch this video, I can't help but scream at that man that they walk past. I want to say, "HELP HER!!" I know it's not his fault, but it just breaks my heart how EASY this was for her to take this beautiful child. :(

[Danaya]

I think the police have suspicions or know something they aren't telling the public. I think that perhaps the woman knew the parents and they aren't being truthful. I hope Victoria is safe. I wonder what prompted the lie detector test so soon and what the results were. Also, were the parents estranged from her or from each other? Does anybody know about the area Victoria lived, is it an affluent area? Middle class? Or does it have a drug problem?

[Sheromom]

Have they tried using dogs at all?

[Crazy Canuck]

I really hate to say this and pass judgement on parents who have a missing child...however the comment from the police about investigating all the previous partners of the parents has me wondering. Tori's brother is 10, Tori is 8 so one has to presume that mom and dad have been together for at least 11 years. I'm thinking that they have had an on again off again relationship by the sounds of it. Also, the last split was in dec and mom already has a new man living with her? If there have been a lot of boyfriends/girlfriends that creates a lot of possible suspects. When a parent introduces another person in their child's life they put their child at risk. We see it time and time again with children being the victim's of stepparents or boyfriend (or girlfriend). The parent(s) may have recognized the woman and police are keeping it quiet...however I would think releasing it would make it easier to find the abductor unless they are afraid tori is alive and this could put her at risk.

[coldcasedetective]

I really hate to say this and pass judgement on parents who have a missing child...however the comment from the police about investigating all the previous partners of the parents has me wondering. Tori's brother is 10, Tori is 8 so one has to presume that mom and dad have been together for at least 11 years. I'm thinking that they have had an on again off again relationship by the sounds of it. Also, the last split was in dec and mom already has a new man living with her? If there have been a lot of boyfriends/girlfriends that creates a lot of possible suspects. When a parent introduces another person in their child's life they put their child at risk. We see it time and time again with children being the victim's of stepparents or boyfriend (or girlfriend). The parent(s) may have recognized the woman and police are keeping it quiet...however I would think releasing it would make it easier to find the abductor unless they are afraid tori is alive and this could put her at risk.

Tori's father said that the way the woman walked was familiar to him, but he couldn't quite put his finger on who it was. That fact alone makes this scenario seem more likely.

[gogrannypop]

I think it's because we get so many American tv stations that broadcast missing US children, but I doubt that's true in reverse. I don't think many Americans are watching the CBC or CTV.

I live in NY and the only stations we get are Canadian. CJOH, CTV and the international programs that are East Indian. Maybe it is because Canada is such a vast nation. All children are important no matter the nationality. These poor children, I feel for all of the families involved. Bless all of the Canadian children that need a voice.

[CentralAlberta]

Interesting article:
Tori's mom's BF: has criminal record going back 7 years.
drug possession and theft under $5000
appeared in court on TUESDAY for possession of stolen property

Rumorsof unpaid drup debt

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1525398

Things are getting interesting.

[jaycee]

Mom wants case of missing girl treated as abduction

CTV.ca News Staff

The mother of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford says her disappearance should be treated as an abduction, as police continue to search for the girl a week after she vanished in Woodstock, Ont.

Police are currently treating the case as a missing persons investigation, and have noted that no signs of foul play have been found.

But Victoria's mother, Tara McDonald, says she believes someone took her child.

"They took my child," McDonald said Wednesday. "So, I mean, I wish it would be treated as an abduction, because it is."

Earlier in the day, Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland of the Oxford Community Police told reporters that while many tips have poured in, none have been substantial enough to push the investigation forward.

"We continue to search properties, to search business compounds and areas to find some kind of evidence that can hopefully lead us to finding Tori," she said.

Victoria, known as "Tori" by her close friends and family, was last seen on April 8, walking with an unidentified woman at around 3:30 p.m. after school.

The two were spotted on grainy video surveillance footage.

Police have been unable to identify the woman in the video, who has long, dark hair and appears to be in her early twenties. Tori seems to know the woman and appears to be going with her willingly.

Neither of Tori's estranged parents recognized the woman in the video either.

The Toronto Star reports that both Rodney Stafford and Tara McDonald have now taken lie-detector tests, and their previous relationships are being scrutinized.

The Star cites friends of Stafford and McDonald as saying they took the tests over the Easter weekend.

Oxford police have not commented on the polygraph test results, or whether the investigation is now focusing on their previous partners.

Criticism

Investigators came under criticism on Tuesday from a U.S. organization that questioned the amount of time that passed before police reported the girl missing.

In the U.S., police must report a missing person to the FBI within two hours.

Maitland said Tuesday that police acted as quickly as possible.

By midnight on the day Tori went missing, police in other jurisdictions had been notified, and a media release went out at 3 a.m.

Elliot Ferguson, who works for the Woodstock Sentinel Review newspaper, told CTV's Canada AM that there was no sense of widespread urgency until the day after Tori disappeared.

"We did hear reports on our radio scanner late that night of a lost girl in that area, and the reports over the radio scanner didn't sound urgent so we didn't think anything of it," he said.

"It wasn't until the next morning when we came in to start the day that we saw the fax that had come across from the police."

Maitland insisted that Victoria's case has been a priority for police in the region since the first moment she was reported missing.

Police have been criticized for not issuing an Amber Alert -- an urgent bulletin notifying the public and the media when a child has been abducted.

In order for police to issue an Amber Alert, the following three criteria must be met, according to Ontario Provincial Police:

The child must be under 18 years of age.
Police believe the abducted child is in imminent danger.
There is enough information about the abductor and or suspect's vehicle to believe that an immediate broadcast alert would help locate the child.
Police halted the full ground search for Tori on Monday, though a group of local residents have continued to look for any clues, and police are actively investigating the case.

Maitland said police are hopeful Victoria is still alive because the search "has not located something that would lead us to believe foul play may be a factor."

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090415/Stafford_search_090415/20090415/?hub=TorontoNewHome

[Danaya]

How unfortunate how women can introduce men with criminal records into their child's lives. Not to mention this man was in court this week for stealing. I know we shouldn't judge others but come on, this behaviour is not making her look good at all.

I don't think it is a stranger abduction, nope. Now that details are emerging I hope the police are really zeroing in on these parents. The OPP are good detectives, they know what they're doing and I think they smell something prettttty fishy.

[badme102]

They said on CTV that Tori will be the top story on America's Most Wanted. I hope that means this weekend.

[badme102]

Interesting article:
Tori's mom's BF: has criminal record going back 7 years.
drug possession and theft under $5000
appeared in court on TUESDAY for possession of stolen property

Rumorsof unpaid drup debt

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1525398

Things are getting interesting.

:eek:

What do we know about HIS exes??

[Lexiintoronto]

Maitland said police are hopeful Victoria is still alive because the search "has not located something that would lead us to believe foul play may be a factor."

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090415/Stafford_search_090415/20090415/?hub=TorontoNewHome
<snipped> Why don't I understand what Maitland keeps repeating? How is it that an 8 year old missing for one week, without a sign of where she is, and the police are saying there's no sign of foul play? And it's a missing person, not an abduction? Everyone in Woodstock and the majority of Canada knows that we are looking for her and no one has heard from either her or the person(s) she is with - isn't that enough to indicate that a crime has been commited?!

Listening to Maitland is like listening to a 1950's stereotypical housewife who smiles and says everything is fine as the house is burning down around her. I would be happy to be proven wrong because I respect the police and I know that they're working hard on this, but I think Maitland has to be replaced and the RCMP needs to take over the case.

[badme102]

<snipped> Why don't I understand what Maitland keeps repeating? How is it that an 8 year old missing for one week, without a sign of where she is, and the police are saying there's no sign of foul play? And it's a missing person, not an abduction? Everyone in Woodstock and the majority of Canada knows that we are looking for her and no one has heard from either her or the person(s) she is with - isn't that enough to indicate that a crime has been commited?!

Listening to Maitland is like listening to a 1950's stereotypical housewife who smiles and says everything is fine as the house is burning down around her. I would be happy to be proven wrong because I respect the police and I know that they're working hard on this, but I think Maitland has to be replaced and the RCMP needs to take over the case.

ITA with you! This is just ridiculous! Either they know something we don't or they're totally incompetent. Which one, I don't know. Poor Tori. :(
Good analogy on the housewife with the house burning down thingy. :clap:

[Lexiintoronto]

badme102, I hope it's because the police know something that we don't know and Tori is safe, because otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[Lexiintoronto]

I live in NY and the only stations we get are Canadian. CJOH, CTV and the international programs that are East Indian. Maybe it is because Canada is such a vast nation. All children are important no matter the nationality. These poor children, I feel for all of the families involved. Bless all of the Canadian children that need a voice. Thank you for the blessing. I wish all children were safe tonight.

The only stations you get are Canadian? Are you in Buffalo? It seems like 90% of what I watch is American.

[jaycee]

Missing Ont. girl's story featured on America's Most Wanted website


CANWEST NEWS SERVICE
APRIL 16, 2009


TORONTO — America's Most Wanted has made the disappearance of Victoria Stafford the top story on its website, eight days after the girl from Woodstock, Ont., vanished while walking home from school.

The story — headlined Video may hold clues in Canadian girl's disappearance — details how the eight-year-old was last seen on a surveillance video in the company of a mystery woman.

The popular website for the Fox television show included descriptions of Tori and the woman she was spotted with, as well as photos of the girl and her purple Bratz-brand purse.

Meanwhile, Tori's family remained steadfast Wednesday in their belief the missing girl will be found safe.

"She could be anywhere," Tori's aunt, Rebecca Stafford said. "I have so many feelings, I can't narrow it down. There are too many possibilities. The only thing that I feel in my heart is that she is OK and we are going to get her back."

A ground search for the Grade 3 student was called off Monday, but police continue to canvass her neighbourhood and follow up on the 500 tips they have received.

Tori's father Rodney Stafford, her mother Tara McDonald and James Goris, McDonald's boyfriend, took lie-detector tests last weekend, McDonald has confirmed.

Stafford and McDonald are estranged.

Mark Mendelson, a former Toronto homicide detective said it's not surprising polygraph tests were conducted because in any investigation "you start at home and work your way out."

More than 60,500 children were reported missing in 2007. Runaways made up 76 per cent of cases and most were found within days.

There were 285 parental abductions reported and 56 children were considered kidnapped by a stranger, classified as anyone besides the custodial guardian, such as a grandmother or family friend, said Barbara Snider, of the Missing Children Society of Canada.

While stranger abductions are relatively rare, they cause the greatest anxiety for parents, Snider said, noting the first 72 hours are critical in any investigation.

"Parental abductions are more common but receive much less attention," she said, highlighting the case of Ashley Tara Bravo Gonis.

The girl, 10, was found in Vancouver last week after allegedly being abducted by her mother in Montreal two years ago.

Still, there are cases with no answers.

Tamra Jewel Keepness, 5, disappeared from her Regina home in 2004.

Michael Dunahee was four years old when he disappeared from a Victoria playground on March 24, 1991.

Earlier this week, the family of Cedrika Provencher, a nine-year-old who disappeared in Trois-Rivieres, Que., on July 31, 2007, offered words of encouragement to the Stafford family, saying they should not lose hope.

Investigations involving children touch a nerve for officers, said Mendelson. He worked on the case of Kayla Klaudusz, the three-year-old girl who was sexually assaulted and murdered after being taken from her apartment in 1991 by a man who lived in the same building.

"It's always tougher with kids because they are innocent," he said. "Tori didn't do anything here to instigate this. It's pure innocence and that is always difficult to deal with."

Tori was last seen on a blurred surveillance video walking without a struggle with an unidentified woman just before she went missing after classes were let out last Wednesday.

Her disappearance has gripped the small city of Woodstock, which is awash in speculation.

McDonald and boyfriend Goris sought to quash some of the talk Wednesday as they dismissed rumours Tori's disappearance was linked to a drug debt.

"It's not true. We don't owe people money and there is no reason for anyone to steal our girl," Goris said.

Rebecca Stafford said the family is focused on getting the word out about Tori and has been overwhelmed by the number of messages posted on Facebook.

Tori's paternal grandmother, Doreen Graichen, said the lack of information has been trying.

"It's getting harder and harder every day," said Graichen.

Woodstock is 145 kilometres west of Toronto.

http://www.canada.com/news/national/Missing+girl+story+featured+America+Most+Wanted+we bsite/1500266/story.html

[kaas]

I was so hoping that the news would be that this young girl and been found safe and sound this morning.

[lurkeyloo]

I just found this thread this morning. This is the first I've heard of Tori. It's so sad that another one of our little girls is missing! AS a mother I am so distraught at the thought of all theses missing children. Please for Tori's sake and ours let there be a happy ending!

[concentric]

All I get from the news articles is that: she vanished while walking home from school.

Does the school faculty and admin. know that:

Tori always WALKED HOME FROM SCHOOL? Did she always walk home by herself?

:confused:

[CarrieBean]

I can't remember which article, but I read one saying that Victoria usually walked home with her Brother after school. That day her Brother helped a disabled boy home in another direction.

[concentric]

I can't remember which article, but I read one saying that Victoria usually walked home with her Brother after school. That day her Brother helped a disabled boy home in another direction.

Wonder who asked him to do that?

[concentric]

So the brother who usually is with her walking home, goes off in another direction, which allows this woman to just step in and take her. OK...so did this woman offer to give her a ride home?

[CarrieBean]

Wonder who asked him to do that?
It wasn't said if someone asked him or if he decided on his own.

[CarrieBean]

"Victoria’s 10-year-old brother, Daryn, is said to have walked his little sister home from school every day, except Wednesday, when he opted to show kindness to a disabled friend and escort that person in a different direction."
http://www.torontosun.com/news/2009/04/14/9108796.html

[CarrieBean]

Denial girl's disappearance is linked to drug debt

Video
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/04/15/9125731.html

[roseofsharon]

Have authorities checked that green van that drove by Victoria and the POI. Have they been able to enhance the tag on that vehicle. This may solve the mystery. It seemed to slow down a bit when it drove beside them.

[CarrieBean]

Have authorities checked that green van that drove by Victoria and the POI. Have they been able to enhance the tag on that vehicle. This may solve the mystery. It seemed to slow down a bit when it drove beside them.
To me, it didn't look like it slowed down.

[Danaya]

I think the parents know the abductor or know the people who put the women up to this. I do not believe it is a stranger abduction. I have my theory which I won't go into since it is too early and not appropriate. To those posters who are saying the police are wrong in not saying this is an abduction, I think they know more about this family and about the situation then they are letting on. The OPP have a lot of experience with these types of cases and beyond. I know some rumours circled Tamra Keepness's disapearance about drug debts as well and she has never been found.

[Turbododger]

Two points- If the brother decided to leave her at the last minute (on his own accord), then her being alone was unplanned and random, thereby suggesting that the abduction was a random stranger (but doesn't explain her apparant willingness to go with said stranger).

Also, is there a 100% identification on Tori in the video? Is it possible that it is NOT her?

IMO if it was a random abduction they could have easily made it accross the border to the US before it was even determined she was missing. I have to agree with others that unless LE has some serious info that has not been released, they have made a major mistake in not labelling this an abduction, when she is clearly with someone other than her legal guardian, after all, she is 8 years old. There must be something indicating a U.S. connection for both Nancy Grace and AMW to pick-up the story. I remember in the Brandon Crisp case, AMW was going to (did?) air his story, but only if there was some evidence that his U.S. gaming friends had influence on him (and therefore he may be with them in the U.S).

[Annette73]

OMG, how can this not be an abduction? I just learned about this case. An 8 yr old dissappears and is seen with a stranger on surveillance videotape, and it's not an abduction? What other possible scenario could there be?

[CarrieBean]

Two points- If the brother decided to leave her at the last minute (on his own accord), then her being alone was unplanned and random, thereby suggesting that the abduction was a random stranger (but doesn't explain her apparant willingness to go with said stranger).

Also, is there a 100% identification on Tori in the video? Is it possible that it is NOT her?

IMO if it was a random abduction they could have easily made it accross the border to the US before it was even determined she was missing. I have to agree with others that unless LE has some serious info that has not been released, they have made a major mistake in not labelling this an abduction, when she is clearly with someone other than her legal guardian, after all, she is 8 years old. There must be something indicating a U.S. connection for both Nancy Grace and AMW to pick-up the story. I remember in the Brandon Crisp case, AMW was going to (did?) air his story, but only if there was some evidence that his U.S. gaming friends had influence on him (and therefore he may be with them in the U.S).

It could have been random or it could have been someone waiting for an opportunity to take Victoria.

IIRC, there were witnesses in that area that confirmed it was Victoria.

How far is the Ambassador bridge from Woodstock? I live near the International bridge and since 9-11 they have required ID for everyone in the vehicle when crossing. It doesn't mean anothers ID couldn't have been used though. They don't always speak to the kids here while crossing, but they do take a look at them.

[KR2tonenow]

How unfortunate how women can introduce men with criminal records into their child's lives. Not to mention this man was in court this week for stealing. I know we shouldn't judge others but come on, this behaviour is not making her look good at all.

I don't think it is a stranger abduction, nope. Now that details are emerging I hope the police are really zeroing in on these parents. The OPP are good detectives, they know what they're doing and I think they smell something prettttty fishy.

Not only is this kind of story becoming HUGE, everywhere.:mad:

We have a very beautiful lost girl here. Abduction maybe, but whether the parents like it or not, child slavery exists and sadly its EPIC, so mom if you want your child back you need to stop telling reporters that your boyfriends RECENT drug and theft charges have nothing to do with this. What school releases a child to a stranger anyhow? Why didn't the parents pick her up? Very irresponisble on the schools behalf as well as the parents, period!!!

Take the sunglasses off too MOM. You look and act dishonest.

[doubletrouble]

wow... woodstock ont is a small little city i grew up in... i cannot even fathom hearing any type of big news such as this tragedy coming out of woodstock... tori and her family are in my prayers

[CarrieBean]

OMG, how can this not be an abduction? I just learned about this case. An 8 yr old dissappears and is seen with a stranger on surveillance videotape, and it's not an abduction? What other possible scenario could there be?

There should have been an AMBER alert. The criteria is BS as far as I'm concerned. She was seen leaving with an unknown (allegedly) woman. That should be enough to consider it an abduction.

The only other scenario I can think of is the police having evidence that the family is involved in some way.

[CarrieBean]

Not only is this kind of story becoming HUGE, everywhere.:mad:

We have a very beautiful lost girl here. Abduction maybe, but whether the parents like it or not, child slavery exists and sadly its EPIC, so mom if you want your child back you need to stop telling reporters that your boyfriends RECENT drug and theft charges have nothing to do with this. What school releases a child to a stranger anyhow? Why didn't the parents pick her up? Very irresponisble on the schools behalf as well as the parents, period!!!

Take the sunglasses off too MOM. You look and act dishonest.
Was it confirmed she was released to this woman or was Victoria approached after leaving the school grounds?
Maybe nobody knew Victoria would be walking home alone. The Brother may have decided after school to walk with his friend and figured his Sister would be fine getting home on her own.

[kaas]

http://maps.google.ca:80/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=woodstock+ontario+&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=26.739147,78.75&ie=UTF8&ll=43.122561,-80.743418&spn=0.003688,0.009613&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A
This is a map of the area of Woodstock that Tori disappeared from. The public school is just south of the high school where the camera is located, facing east towards the nursing home across the road.
The unidentified woman is described as wearing dark pants, I have watched the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg so many times over and it appears to me that the shirt, which is longer than the coat is the same colour as the pants. Could this be scrubs as a PSW or PCA would wear?

[KR2tonenow]

Not sure, CB. But leaving a child out front of a school, with out teacher, teacher aid, or school grounds worker, or MOM or DAD is extremely stupid. Kids travel in groups here, and 8 year olds don't stand outside by themselves...was there school busses out there? Were there other students milling around? What is the child's normal pick up from school schedule routine? How come no one is coming forward when there were witnesses?

[badme102]

It could have been random or it could have been someone waiting for an opportunity to take Victoria.

IIRC, there were witnesses in that area that confirmed it was Victoria.

How far is the Ambassador bridge from Woodstock? I live near the International bridge and since 9-11 they have required ID for everyone in the vehicle when crossing. It doesn't mean anothers ID couldn't have been used though. They don't always speak to the kids here while crossing, but they do take a look at them.

My bold.
I live in Windsor (where the Ambassador Bridge is) and it's approx 2 and 1/2 hour drive(approx.145 miles)from Woodstock to Windsor.

[doubletrouble]

you can just about walk anywhere in woodstock..walking distance...we lived on kendall ave and main street area...short walk to fyfe ave... my heart is breaking... how are we to protect our kids???

[CarrieBean]

Not sure, CB. But leaving a child out front of a school, with out teacher, teacher aid, or school grounds worker, or MOM or DAD is extremely stupid. Kids travel in groups here, and 8 year olds don't stand outside by themselves...was there school busses out there? Were there other students milling around? What is the child's normal pick up from school schedule routine? How come no one is coming forward when there were witnesses?
From what I understand, there was no pick-up schedule. Victoria and her Brother walked home together every day. It looks like the Brother left her to walk home on her own. Maybe a bad decision on his part, but the boy is only 10 years old.

Around here, after school the bussed students are monitored getting on the buses. The kids who walk home are on their own after they leave the grounds. I will have to check, but I believe around here (I'm in N. Ontario), students who live less than 3/4 km from the school walk (excluding JK and Kindergarten of course). Anyone know how far Tori's school is from her home?

The witness(es) who saw Victoria have spoken with the police. They have no obligation to the media.

[CarrieBean]

My bold.
I live in Windsor (where the Ambassador Bridge is) and it's approx 2 and 1/2 hour drive(approx.145 miles)from Woodstock to Windsor.
Thanks, badme. That would give her plenty enough time to take her across the border. 2.5 hrs after school she was reported missing. From what I understand word didn't get out about Victoria missing until the next morning?

[greatwhitenorth]

From what I understand, there was no pick-up schedule. Victoria and her Brother walked home together every day. It looks like the Brother left her to walk home on her own. Maybe a bad decision on his part, but the boy is only 10 years old.

Around here, after school the bussed students are monitored getting on the buses. The kids who walk home are on their own after they leave the grounds. I will have to check, but I believe around here (I'm in N. Ontario), students who live less than 3/4 km from the school walk (excluding JK and Kindergarten of course). Anyone know how far Tori's school is from her home?

The witness(es) who saw Victoria have spoken with the police. They have no obligation to the media.

there was an article printed yesterday saying the brother helped a disabled child home thats why vistoria was alone...will look for that link...

[greatwhitenorth]

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/549372

this is todays local news....

[kaas]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090409/victoria_missing_090410/20090411?hub=TopStories
"Victoria (Tori) Stafford was reported missing after she did not return home from Woodstock's Oliver Stephens Public School on Wednesday afternoon.

Police later obtained surveillance video from a nearby high school that captured footage of a girl matching Tori's appearance walking with an adult woman on Wednesday afternoon.

Oxford Community police Const. Laurie-Ann Maitland told CTV Newsnet that Tori has now been positively identified as the girl in the video.

"It is, in fact, her," Maitland said in a phone interview on Friday morning.

Tori is seen walking with the woman in the direction of her home around 3:32 p.m. on Wednesday, Maitland said. There is no sign of force or resistance in the video. "

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/04/09/9072751-sun.html
"Meanwhile, family and friends gathered at the Frances Street home of Victoria ‘Tori’ Stafford to await news about the Grade 3 pupil."

Frances is only two blocks north of the school.

[greatwhitenorth]

WOODSTOCK — Members of the media are gathering outside Oxford Community Police Service headquarters waiting for the latest briefing from police.


Some are anticipating a breaking announcement to be made. The Sentinel-Review will keep you up to date with the on-going movement of this story as it happens.

thia was posted 10min ago

[KR2tonenow]

I want to hear more from the Candian Police before I pass judgement. They must have valid reasons why this case isn't being called an abduction.

[badme102]

Thanks, badme. That would give her plenty enough time to take her across the border. 2.5 hrs after school she was reported missing. From what I understand word didn't get out about Victoria missing until the next morning?

IIRC, that's when the announcement was made. The next morning! :confused:

She could have been taken anywhere in that amount of time. Like you said, especially here, over the Ambassador bridge and to Detroit.

I hope she comes home safe and SOON!

[CarrieBean]

WOODSTOCK — Members of the media are gathering outside Oxford Community Police Service headquarters waiting for the latest briefing from police.


Some are anticipating a breaking announcement to be made. The Sentinel-Review will keep you up to date with the on-going movement of this story as it happens.

thia was posted 10min ago
Thanks, GWN. Have you found any sites that will have this live?

[greatwhitenorth]

I want to hear more from the Candian Police before I pass judgement. They must have valid reasons why this case isn't being called an abduction.


In order for police to issue an Amber Alert, the following three criteria must be met, according to Ontario Provincial Police:

The child must be under 18 years of age.
Police believe the abducted child is in imminent danger.
There is enough information about the abductor and or suspect's vehicle to believe that an immediate broadcast alert would help locate the child.

link:http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090413/Stafford_girl_090414?hub=TorontoNewHome

[greatwhitenorth]

Thanks, GWN. Have you found any sites that will have this live?

no but i am still looking...

[doubletrouble]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html
"Police call off ground search for Ontario girl"
I'm still mad that the police spokesperson keeps saying that because there is no evidence of a struggle in that grainy video, it isn't an abduction. " "An abduction says that it’s taken by force. We have her willingly walking away," Maitland told reporters Monday"

How do they know that woman didn't say "Walk all happy like you know me or I will shoot you" and showed her a gun, or a knife? Or even the classic "Can you help me find my lost puppy" Or "hey, do you want to be in a Jonas brother's video? Come with me and we'll go talk to your parents!"


Just some examples, but they really are bring stubbornly naive here, IMO.

my neice carlie was also caught on video surveillance and didnt put up a struggle...yet she was brutally murdered.. how can they not put out an amber alert!!

[badme102]

Does anyone know if this presser will be on TV? CTV, maybe?

[Turbododger]

http://maps.google.ca:80/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=woodstock+ontario+&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=26.739147,78.75&ie=UTF8&ll=43.122561,-80.743418&spn=0.003688,0.009613&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A
This is a map of the area of Woodstock that Tori disappeared from. The public school is just south of the high school where the camera is located, facing east towards the nursing home across the road.
The unidentified woman is described as wearing dark pants, I have watched the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6FyN3Ct1Kg so many times over and it appears to me that the shirt, which is longer than the coat is the same colour as the pants. Could this be scrubs as a PSW or PCA would wear?

I did not know there was a nursing home nearby. I wonder if an intense investigation of the employees/visitors has been done, or if there were any camera's in that home?

[badme102]

my neice carlie was also caught on video surveillance and didnt put up a struggle...yet she was brutally murdered.. how can they not put out an amber alert!!

OMG! I'm so sorry for your loss! :(

[Danaya]

I think the police may think the women knew the family and Victoria had met her, which is why they aren't calling it a stranger abduction since the tape shows Victoria walking away willingly. If the women is not a stranger to Victoria, it is not a stranger abduction. Maybe a kidnapping.

If the parents have past criminal records and who knows what else they may be involved in, the police may have had doubts and/or reasons to believe this was not a stranger abducting a child but more of an inside job. I'm not sure what their reasoning was but there is no reason to point fingers at the police anymore. Now all we can do is wait and see what happens and I'm sure the police are doing the best they can and will take full responsibility if it turns out their actions may have contributed to a tragic out come. IMO, if this is in fact an "associate" or a former associate of the Mom and her boyfriend then it's not the police who should be taking the blame here.

[KR2tonenow]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...sing-girl.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html) <snipped>

Meanwhile, investigators are still not treating Victoria Stafford's disappearance last Wednesday as an abduction because video surveillance showed the Grade 3 student leaving her school "willingly" with an unidentified woman, police Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland said.
"An abduction says that it’s taken by force. We have her willingly walking away," Maitland told reporters Monday.

We need a new critieria even for this sort of thing, Sandra was skipping too, and look what happened to her!

[greatwhitenorth]

my neice carlie was also caught on video surveillance and didnt put up a struggle...yet she was brutally murdered.. how can they not put out an amber alert!!

I agree 100% if the family dont know whom this person is that as a mon tells me it is a STRANGER. That would indicate with big red flags amber alert!!!

My close friends sister was murdered last year by a co-worker, should not matter you cant trust anyone.

the child is 8yrs old, in grade 3 and missing for 7 days...ummm whats the problem!!!!!!!

[kaas]

In the background of the video you can see the large windows of the nursing home across the road.

[badme102]

OK, I just have to speak up about this. Maybe she did "willingly" walk away, but it doesn't mean she wanted to go. No matter what the situation may be, she is still with someone that she is not supposed to be with.
How do we know what this person said to her? Words can be threatening. She could have used the old stand by line, "Your Mom wanted me to pick you up!"
It's still illegal to take a child without the parents permission, no matter what they have in their backgrounds.

[CarrieBean]

my neice carlie was also caught on video surveillance and didnt put up a struggle...yet she was brutally murdered.. how can they not put out an amber alert!!
So sorry doubletrouble. They need to use the amber alerts more often. From what I understand, they hesitate to use the amber alerts in fear that if used too often they will become ineffective. Better safe than sorry.

[CarrieBean]

Does anyone know if this presser will be on TV? CTV, maybe?
Just turned on MCTV. They spoke of Sandra Cantu, but haven't seen anything on Victoria yet. May have missed it though.

[Turbododger]

It could have been random or it could have been someone waiting for an opportunity to take Victoria.


Yes, but if the brother walked with her everyday, and decided randomly to alter the daily course, then the perp "probably" would have been waiting for the right opportunity to take Victoria for some time. Perhaps there is older video from the school of her hanging around.

Further to the post regarding the Nursing Home across the street, does the shift change happen at approximately the same time the school is let out?

[badme102]

Just turned on MCTV. They spoke of Sandra Cantu, but haven't seen anything on Victoria yet. May have missed it though.

Thanks. I have CTV on here, and I haven't seen a thing about Tori yet, either.

[Danaya]

Right, but now that she is missing and the police chose not to for unkown reasons issue an amber alert, instead of making judgements this soon we should wait and see what happens. If the outcome turns out to be a stranger abduction then we can ask the OPP to issue an apology and make corrections in their procedures. I just don't think that it's at all going to benefit finding this girl. Whether or not your theory is she was abducted by a stranger or not, the key point is a young girl is missing and needs to be found. :)

[kaas]

The local media link which includes recent releases and videos can be found here:
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/

[doubletrouble]

is there an astro thread at all on tori? if so can anyone link me to it..i cant seem to find one

[CarrieBean]

I think the police may think the women knew the family and Victoria had met her, which is why they aren't calling it a stranger abduction since the tape shows Victoria walking away willingly. If the women is not a stranger to Victoria, it is not a stranger abduction. Maybe a kidnapping.

If the parents have past criminal records and who knows what else they may be involved in, the police may have had doubts and/or reasons to believe this was not a stranger abducting a child but more of an inside job. I'm not sure what their reasoning was but there is no reason to point fingers at the police anymore. Now all we can do is wait and see what happens and I'm sure the police are doing the best they can and will take full responsibility if it turns out their actions may have contributed to a tragic out come. IMO, if this is in fact an "associate" or a former associate of the Mom and her boyfriend then it's not the police who should be taking the blame here.
I agree IF the police have evidence the family is involved. But from what I understand Victoria is classified as a missing person, not abducted (stranger or otherwise).

[kaas]

The press conference has been delayed until tomorrow morning. http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1526835

[badme102]

What the heck is that all about?

[doubletrouble]

The press conference has been delayed until tomorrow morning. http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1526835

i am going to pray for the best and not even think of the worst

[greatwhitenorth]

children @ this age dont have street smarts. We teach our children to be kind and caring. I am sure if that STRANGER was being nice to her she would be nice back. This situation has given me time to explain to my 10 year old daughter the risks of people being nice. strange world we live in..I pray they find her safe.

[kaas]

Sigh.

[CarrieBean]

i am going to pray for the best and not even think of the worst
Yes, I hope this is good news. Hope they found her safe and are in the middle of arresting people.

[greatwhitenorth]

i am going to pray for the best and not even think of the worst

I must say I beleive the mom. Maybe its because i have had to look at the faces of a family whom lost thteir daughter to a monster last year. she has that same hollow look in her eyes (like my friend and her family) you cant forget that look.

[kaas]

This is so heartbreaking. I also do hope the police are too busy with bringing Tori home to her family and arresting the individual(s) responsible for the press conference this afternoon. May we have good news soon.

[CarrieBean]

Can someone tell me exactly where the security camera is located? Is it the NE side of the HS, facing Fyfe Ave? Is that a high school on college ave. or is that the elementary school?

[doubletrouble]

Can someone tell me exactly where the security camera is located? Is it the NE side of the HS, facing Fyfe Ave? Is that a high school on college ave. or is that the elementary school?

that is a public elementary school

[kaas]

The camera is on the NE side of the HS facing Fyfe Ave. The HS is on the corner of Fyfe and College Aves. The Nursing home is on the corner of Fyfe and Walter. The elementary school is south of the highschool on Fyfe.

[Turbododger]

Which direction was Tori seen heading?

[kaas]

The camera being on the east side of the highschool and facing east, Tori is walking north.

If this helps the high school is 700 college ave, the public school is 164 fyfe and the nursing home is 81 fyfe

[CarrieBean]

The camera is on the NE side of the HS facing Fyfe Ave. The HS is on the corner of Fyfe and College Aves. The Nursing home is on the corner of Fyfe and Walter. The elementary school is south of the highschool on Fyfe.
Thanks, that's what I thought...that this video was taken from the HS, and not Victoria's school.

[CarrieBean]

Most likely a bunch of BS, but this was linked from Facebook.

"Tori in Tillsonburg
I don't know why the police arent updating everyone on tips, Tori was seen in Tillsonburg in a drug store, someone I know was in there and seen her, she went out to her car and called 911, police confirmed it was Tori on the survalance tape!!!!!!!"

http://cd989.com/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=58&com_id=36528&com_rootid=36528&#comment36528

[doubletrouble]

the high school is w.c.i woodstock collegiate institute...

tillsonburg is a small farming community..at least it was back in the early 80's when i grew up...any updates conferences yet??

[kaas]

the high school is w.c.i woodstock collegiate institute...

tillsonburg is a small farming community..at least it was back in the early 80's when i grew up...any updates conferences yet??


No updates yet, but the high school is CASS (College Avenue Secondary School) on the corner of fyfe and college) not WCI.

[concentric]

Not sure, CB. But leaving a child out front of a school, with out teacher, teacher aid, or school grounds worker, or MOM or DAD is extremely stupid. Kids travel in groups here, and 8 year olds don't stand outside by themselves...was there school busses out there? Were there other students milling around? What is the child's normal pick up from school schedule routine? How come no one is coming forward when there were witnesses?

Please, I would appreciate a response directed to me also, since I first posed this question:

All I get from the news articles is that: she vanished while walking home from school.

Does the school faculty and admin. know that:

Tori always WALKED HOME FROM SCHOOL? Did she always walk home by herself?

:confused:

[doubletrouble]

No updates yet, but the high school is CASS (College Avenue Secondary School) on the corner of fyfe and college) not WCI.

omg! ty for clarrifying that....wci and huron park were the only two high schools i recalled growing up....now that u mentioned cass... duh:bang:

that was certainly a foggy time in my life.... ty

[greatwhitenorth]

Please, I would appreciate a response directed to me also, since I first posed this question:

All I get from the news articles is that: she vanished while walking home from school.

Does the school faculty and admin. know that:

Tori always WALKED HOME FROM SCHOOL? Did she always walk home by herself?

:confused:

she usually wals with er 10yr old brother. was thinking this afternoon. what about a crossing gaurd. my daughter walks in a group but i still dont let her leave till the guard is on duty.

[CarrieBean]

Please, I would appreciate a response directed to me also, since I first posed this question:

All I get from the news articles is that: she vanished while walking home from school.

Does the school faculty and admin. know that:

Tori always WALKED HOME FROM SCHOOL? Did she always walk home by herself?

:confused:
Of course I don't have any way of knowing this myself for sure, but if Victoria was walking home daily, how could faculty not know? The news articles stated that she walked home with her Brother every day...except for that day. I'm sure it's possible there were other days her Brother went off with friends and she walked home alone. Maybe someone knew this?...that Tori sometimes walked by herself.

[Danaya]

re: why witnesses aren't coming forward
For all we know the witnesses have talked to police. The police won't update the public on every detail of their investigation, they will probably give a few updates but the next major update will probably be when Victoria is found and/or when a suspect is named. The things like witnesses, what Victoria's family dynamics are, tips that have been verified, these are all things the police is aware of and investigates before going public if they take that public. I'm sure the detectives are working behind the scenes on these things.

Concentric: From what I've read she's always walked home from school with her brother but that day, her brother stopped to help another boy.

[kaas]

Please, I would appreciate a response directed to me also, since I first posed this question:

All I get from the news articles is that: she vanished while walking home from school.

Does the school faculty and admin. know that:

Tori always WALKED HOME FROM SCHOOL? Did she always walk home by herself?

:confused:

In this video http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1525352 it is explained that Tori usually walked home with her brother or friends. They live only a couple of blocks from the school.

[Danaya]

Of course I don't have any way of knowing this myself for sure, but if Victoria was walking home daily, how could faculty not know? The news articles stated that she walked home with her Brother every day...except for that day. I'm sure it's possible there were other days her Brother went off with friends and she walked home alone. Maybe someone knew this?...that Tori sometimes walked by herself.

Or maybe the person would have taken Tori anyway, after all, it's a ten year old boy. It's not like he would be a major physical detterant to stop anybody or maybe, the kids knew the women so she would have given the brother some sort of excuse to be walking away with Tori alone.

[CarrieBean]

Or maybe the person would have taken Tori anyway, after all, it's a ten year old boy. It's not like he would be a major physical detterant to stop anybody or maybe, the kids knew the women so she would have given the brother some sort of excuse to be walking away with Tori alone.
Maybe, but I imagine with the schools just getting out this would have been a very busy area at this time...with a bunch of parents waiting around for their kids, as well as HS students. It wouldn't be a good time to forcefully snatch a child.

[CarrieBean]

Most likely a bunch of BS, but this was linked from Facebook.

"Tori in Tillsonburg
I don't know why the police arent updating everyone on tips, Tori was seen in Tillsonburg in a drug store, someone I know was in there and seen her, she went out to her car and called 911, police confirmed it was Tori on the survalance tape!!!!!!!"

http://cd989.com/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=58&com_id=36528&com_rootid=36528&#comment36528
This comment has now been removed from the site.

[kaas]

Maybe, but I imagine with the schools just getting out this would have been a very busy area at this time...with a bunch of parents waiting around for their kids, as well as HS students. It wouldn't be a good time to forcefully snatch a child.

The High School is let out an hour earlier than the Public School.

[Danaya]

Maybe, but I imagine with the schools just getting out this would have been a very busy area at this time...with a bunch of parents waiting around for their kids, as well as HS students. It wouldn't be a good time to forcefully snatch a child.

Which is why I think there is a good possibility Tori knew the women or had seen the women with her parent(s).

[kaas]

I do hope the sighting in Tillsonburg was not a hoax and the police now have a clear video of Tori and the person she is with. May she be returned to her family soon.

[CarrieBean]

Major update expected in missing Ont. girl case

"...Tori's aunt, Rebecca Stafford, said she just returned from having more flyers printed when she heard of Friday's police news conference.

"I would assume that we would have been informed if it were something of great significance or importance," Stafford said. "That's just my assumption. I don't know if I should be making that type of inference."

http://www.canada.com/news/national/Major+update+expected+missing+girl+case/1503104/story.html

[CarrieBean]

Press conference Friday 10 a.m.

WOODSTOCK — The Oxford Community Police Service (OCPS) is expected to make a major announcement tomorrow in the disappearance of eight-year-old Victoria “Tori’ Stafford.

OCPS Chief Ron Fraser will be conducting a 10 a.m. press conference at Woodstock’s Canadian Auto Workers hall. The first senior OCPS official to speak about the eight-day investigation, Fraser will be giving “an update at that time,” police spokesperson Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland said.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1527066

[amandab]

UGH - tomorrow???? If it's a major update, why wait until tomorrow??

Oh I have no patience...

[CarrieBean]

UGH - tomorrow???? If it's a major update, why wait until tomorrow??

Oh I have no patience...
Unless I missed it, I don't recall seeing LE claim it is going to be a major update.

Sure hope it is though.

[ella's mom]

I don't know why but it seems like the cases that get the most attention on WS are American children. Is it because majority of posters are American and don't feel they relate to Canadians? I am Canadian but am actively involved in American cases here, it makes no difference to me. I know there are quite a few cases but not much exposure here, except for the Jessie Foster case because she dissapeared in Vegas. Oh well.
Just getting caught up here. That dang job of mine keeps getting in the way of my WS'ing :). But truly I don't think the true missing person followers on WS discriminate between American, Canadian, white, black, purple, green missing persons. I follow the cases that are brought to my attention. I am in Michigan, if it weren't for WS or the other boards I follow, I probably wouldn't know about half of the MP cases in the US or anywhere else because my local media doesn't cover it. It is up to us to keep eachother informed of these cases. If you know of a case that we don't have a thread for, please start one, no matter which state or country it is in.

JMO

[coldcasedetective]

I don't really believe that people on WS discriminate either. I know I don't. I just know that Canadian cases fall quickly out of our own media. I just worry that like the cases of Cedrika Provencher, Tamra Keepness and Michael Dunahee that when the cases go cold there may be no solving them. I hope they won't downsize the cases publicity to a random flyer in a variety store. That's all I see of the above cases, if anything.

[hoppyfrog]

But truly I don't think the true missing person followers on WS discriminate between American, Canadian, white, black, purple, green missing persons.<snip> If you know of a case that we don't have a thread for, please start one, no matter which state or country it is in.

JMO

You are exactly right, ella's mom. Thanks for your post. WS welcomes threads on all missing persons.

I will say, however, that I only post about U.S. cases. That is only because my time is very, very limited. So I had to put some arbitrary limit on what I can do.

I'd love for someone to step forward and take on posting about Canadian, British, etc. cases.

Hoppy

[amandab]

If you know of a case that we don't have a thread for, please start one, no matter which state or country it is in.
JMO

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

I cannot agree with this enough - there are SO many cases, each deserving of attention and investigation, and I don't know about other posters here, but often times a thread at WS is the first exposure to them that I get, well before mainstream media.

[ThoughtElf]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but AMW (America's Most Wanted) is trying to help with this case. They are profiling Tori's case on their web site and may profile it on the show. They've also contacted the Woodstock police to assist:

http://news.google.ca/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&ncl=1329871563&cf=all&scoring=n

[ThoughtElf]

Please, I would appreciate a response directed to me also, since I first posed this question:

All I get from the news articles is that: she vanished while walking home from school.

Does the school faculty and admin. know that:

Tori always WALKED HOME FROM SCHOOL? Did she always walk home by herself?

:confused:

When we watched a newscast last night with Tori's Mom, she stated that whomever it was they would have to know that Tori would be walking home that day.

To us, it sounded as if she meant that it was unusual for Tori to be walking home alone. She also mentioned that her brother thought Tori was about 10 minutes behind him.

I'll try to find the news clip from yesterday and post it.

[amandab]

When we watched a newscast last night with Tori's Mom, she stated that whomever it was they would have to know that Tori would be walking home that day.

To us, it sounded as if she meant that it was unusual for Tori to be walking home alone. She also mentioned that her brother thought Tori was about 10 minutes behind him.
I'll try to find the news clip from yesterday and post it.


Oh this must be tearing her poor brother up inside - how horrible for him.....

[ella's mom]

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

I cannot agree with this enough - there are SO many cases, each deserving of attention and investigation, and I don't know about other posters here, but often times a thread at WS is the first exposure to them that I get, well before mainstream media.

Thx and hello to another Michigander!! OT, but Dateline will be featuring a 2 hour special on a finally solved Cold Case from Michigan. 1986 disappearence and murder of 13 year old Cindy Jo Zarzycki (Arthur Ream finally confessed and led them to her remains in 2008). It's the same Prosecutor that did the Tara Grant Murder Case. It's tomorrow night at 9:00pm (eastern). Just a quick FYI if you are interested.

ETA: I only brought this up because a saw another poster from Michigan. I mean no disrespect to this case. Back to Tori.

[amandab]

Thanks! I'll be out tomorrow night, but will probably be able to find it on Hulu.com or something similar.....

[ThoughtElf]

Oh this must be tearing her poor brother up inside - how horrible for him.....

I agree. He is only 10 years old.

Tori's father was on the same newscast and he was very broken up. I'm still trying to find the click. I can't recall if it was on CTV or CBC.

[ThoughtElf]

Purple Balloon Release for Tori tonight.

Video in the sidebar:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090416/AMW_Stafford_090416/20090416?hub=Toronto

[kaas]

I had posted this in response to Concentric's question

In this video http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.c...aspx?e=1525352 it is explained that Tori usually walked home with her brother or friends. They live only a couple of blocks from the school.

[ThoughtElf]

I had posted this in response to Concentric's question

In this video http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.c...aspx?e=1525352 it is explained that Tori usually walked home with her brother or friends. They live only a couple of blocks from the school.

Thanks Kaas.

Still catching up and I missed that.

[ThoughtElf]

What are you guys expecting for the press conference tomorrow?

Do you think there is any real news, or simply that they feel it is time for the Chief himself to speak in light of the Amber Alert criticisms? Or perhaps something to do with AMW involvement? Maybe they will change the status to abduction?

Everything I've read/watched tonight implies that the family aren't aware of any new developments.

[Lexiintoronto]

my neice carlie was also caught on video surveillance and didnt put up a struggle...yet she was brutally murdered.. how can they not put out an amber alert!!

My condolences to you for the loss of Carlie. How terrible.:(

[Lexiintoronto]

What are you guys expecting for the press conference tomorrow?

Do you think there is any real news, or simply that they feel it is time for the Chief himself to speak in light of the Amber Alert criticisms? Or perhaps something to do with AMW involvement? Maybe they will change the status to abduction?

Everything I've read/watched tonight implies that the family aren't aware of any new developments. I wish there could be a break in the case, but it doesn't look that way. :(

I hope that they pull police spokesperson Maitland off the case and put a more experienced person on the job. I can give an example, but suffice to say she gives me the impression that the police are taking this lightly and I know that's not the case.

They might just want to clear up public misconceptions about what LE is doing about her disappearance, and make it clear that they're leaving no stone unturned.

PS - I'm just catching up on the news about the missed news conference. Maybe it's a power stuggle that includes the police chief and outside LE? I hope that this isn't bad news and they're just confirming things before releasing information to the public the way they did with the Holly Jones murder.

[Amster]

The mom said she or grandma always picked up the kids...because of the cold...but, they were now walking home together. Except, the brother helped a disabled student to walk home where they used to live. Tori would go with him or wait at the school til he got back.

[kaas]

What are you guys expecting for the press conference tomorrow?

Do you think there is any real news, or simply that they feel it is time for the Chief himself to speak in light of the Amber Alert criticisms? Or perhaps something to do with AMW involvement? Maybe they will change the status to abduction?

Everything I've read/watched tonight implies that the family aren't aware of any new developments.

Unfortunately, I do not feel there are any new developments that will be shared with the media. Is it time for Chief Fraser to speak to the media, yes it is. And he should have been more "in front" from the beginning. Not to question the professional integrity of the current spokesperson, having the Police Chief more visible and audible to the public may have created more reassurance to the community regarding the serious nature of Tori's disappearance and subsequent actions taken by this police department.
I give credit for them having called in the OPP canine and helicopter search teams and understand somewhat the logic behind not issuing the Amber Alert but........... there should be much more positive engagement of the community.
Public relations has never been a significant strength for the Chief of this police department. I wish them the best in solving this, and returning Tori home to her family safe and sound soon.

[roseofsharon]

Some footage makes it look like the van seemed to slow down, but then I found better footage and no, it doesn't seem to, but at that time of day, you would think there would be more traffic going down that street. Still wondering if they could possibly run the tag, it may provide a lead.

[Paintr]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/17/missing-girl-police017.html

'The police chief in Woodstock, Ont., will become the first senior police official to publicly comment on the disappearance of schoolgirl Victoria Stafford when he speaks at a news conference Friday.

Ron Fraser is scheduled to speak at 10 a.m. ET.

The Toronto Sun reported in its Friday edition that Fraser will announce the Ontario Provincial Police is taking over the investigation.'

[Paintr]

The show of support involved the release of the balloons, a gesture that was both symbolic -- purple is Tori's favourite colour -- and functional. With each balloon carrying a scroll with a photograph and the details of Tori's April 8 disappearance, co-organizer Cathy Daniels said the intent of their release was to keep spreading information about the missing girl.

http://woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1528581

[Paintr]

Sources say the provincial force, which has been helping in the investigation, will broaden the search beyond the Woodstock area.

Provincial police would not confirm today’s report in The Free Press, but a force spokesman said “it will be worthwhile to attend the press conference.”


http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/17/9145081.html

[badme102]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/17/missing-girl-police017.html

'The police chief in Woodstock, Ont., will become the first senior police official to publicly comment on the disappearance of schoolgirl Victoria Stafford when he speaks at a news conference Friday.

Ron Fraser is scheduled to speak at 10 a.m. ET.

The Toronto Sun reported in its Friday edition that Fraser will announce the Ontario Provincial Police is taking over the investigation.'

My bold.
So, is this going to be the "major" announcement this morning?
I was really hoping for some good news. :(

[CarrieBean]

OPP to take over search for missing Ont. girl: report

Updated Fri. Apr. 17 2009 8:15 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The search for Tori Stafford in Woodstock, Ont., may be handed over to the Ontario Provincial Police force today.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090417/stafford_090417/20090417?hub=TopStories

[CarrieBean]

My bold.
So, is this going to be the "major" announcement this morning?
I was really hoping for some good news. :(
Me too, but if she had been found I'm sure word would have got out by now. Hopefully they have something.

[CarrieBean]

The show of support involved the release of the balloons, a gesture that was both symbolic -- purple is Tori's favourite colour -- and functional. With each balloon carrying a scroll with a photograph and the details of Tori's April 8 disappearance, co-organizer Cathy Daniels said the intent of their release was to keep spreading information about the missing girl.

http://woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1528581
What a great idea this is.

[CentralAlberta]

I don't live in Ontario so I don't know about a provincial police force. Here in Alberta we have the RCMP. Any guesses has to how this case will be handled now? Do you think someone will finally admit this was an abduction? Will OP be willing to call in some "professionals" in the area of child abduction (like maybe from the US) since this isn't all that common here? Will the OP be willing to enhance that video more to get a better look at who that woman was? I still believe there are companies out there with the technology to do so. So what if they have to look to another country for this expertice. So what if that shows how poorly equipped our LE is. There should be absolutely nothing that stands in the way of searching for a child.

One thing for sure - there should be a new PR person since another LE is taking over the case.

Does anyone know if the press conference will be streamed?

[CarrieBean]

CentralAlberta, I don't know a whole lot about their special divisions but I think a case like this is better off with the OPP. They do work with many organizations, Nationally and Internationally. I was wondering, too, why that video wasn't enhanced more. Hopefully the family will get/already has some answers today.

[CarrieBean]

Live stream here

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/17/9145081.html

[Infojunkie]

I wonder if they will comment on the parents lie detector tests today? Maybe after the results they will finally label this as an abduction.

[CarrieBean]

Live stream here

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/17/9145081.html
Anyone find a different feed? This one keeps freezing. :(

[doubletrouble]

Anyone find a different feed? This one keeps freezing. :(

mine was too when i first clicked on it...try giving it a few minutes..that seemed to work for me.. good luck:)

[doubletrouble]

oh..and i x-ed out of the google ads on the bottom..not sure if that helped or not..just saying..

[Infojunkie]

I've found a news radio station that says they will have a reporter at the presser. I don't know if they will carry the audio live but here's the link 570News (http://www.570news.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090416_130729_5060)

Listen Live is on the left hand side of the menu bar.

[Paintr]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090417/stafford_090417/20090417?hub=TopStories

The Oxford Community Police force has been criticized for their handling of Tori's disappearance. Some have said they should have immediately issued an Amber Alert -- an urgent bulletin notifying the public and the media when a child has gone missing.



Police say they acted as quickly as possible. They say they were notified of the girl's disappearance at around 6 p.m. on Wednesday. Before midnight that day, police in other jurisdictions were notified, and by 3 a.m., a notice went out to the media.

[CarrieBean]

mine was too when i first clicked on it...try giving it a few minutes..that seemed to work for me.. good luck:)
It's streaming quite a bit better now.

[Paintr]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090415.wblatch15art2249/BNStory/National/home

The picture of Tori with the mystery woman was retrieved from footage taken by a camera at College Avenue Secondary School, which shares a huge green space with Oliver Stephens Public School where Tori is in Grade 3 with 20 other youngsters. The photograph was taken about 200 yards from an intersection almost equidistant from Tori's former home on Fyfe Street and the new small blue-sided home on Frances. Neither house is more than a few minutes walk away, even at a child's pace.

[doubletrouble]

clarifying rumors.(from press conference)
.. didnt meet amber alert criteria...
missing person or abduction..makes no matter..
opp criminal investigation branch lieutenent inspector on board to help find tori.. bill r det-insp

[doubletrouble]

now considered a child abduction... wow

[Infojunkie]

Declared an abduction!

[greatwhitenorth]

now considered a child abduction... Wow

finally

[CarrieBean]

If it makes no matter, why change it to an abduction?

To keep the public happy or because they know it should have been declared an abduction to begin with?

I would think declaring it an abduction would get more public attention.

[Infojunkie]

I think more people sit up and pay attention when a child is abducted. Missing person seems to indicate there is a possibilty that the child has run away.

They keep talking about evidence...wonder what they've got besides the video?

[CarrieBean]

Considering a sketch of woman in video? Grr

[CarrieBean]

OPP not taking over...coming in to assist.

[Infojunkie]

They have to look at the dark side sometimes. Re: Abduction vs Missing Person

[Infojunkie]

Won't say if the mystery woman abducted her, would reveal intracacies (sp?) of the investigation.

[CarrieBean]

Press trying to get a straight answer on why it was changed to an abduction.

Reporter: Changed to an abduction due to new evidence or evidence you have had all along? (great question).

[doubletrouble]

okaaay...what's really going on? the police seem to be tip toeing around....a baby girl has been abducted!! they should be diving in with both feet... omg this is taking too long

[CarrieBean]

Have some leads and going through whole video again.

Hush hush on any type of evidence they may have.

[doubletrouble]

the focus of the evidence is still in woodstock... now discussing criteria for the amber alert that its very specific

[amandab]

It really sounds like LE dropped the ball on this one. Tori needs all of our prayers.

[CarrieBean]

AMBER alert criteria BS

IMO of course

[Infojunkie]

They think she's still in Woodstock but they won't rule out if she's been taken out of the city.

Is that double speak? I'm confused.

Does anyone remember the comment from a family member (can't remember which one) that they knew that walk, only one person walks like that (in reference to the mystery woman). What happened with that?

[CarrieBean]

Someone please ask if the video can be more enhanced!

[Infojunkie]

Not using the Amber Alert gave superior coverage?? wtf?

[CarrieBean]

They think she's still in Woodstock but they won't rule out if she's been taken out of the city.

Is that double speak? I'm confused.

Does anyone remember the comment from a family member (can't remember which one) that they knew that walk, only one person walks like that (in reference to the mystery woman). What happened with that?
Was it Victoria's Father?

[doubletrouble]

much about nothing imo

[badme102]

The scary thing is, if this story wasn't "released" until 3 AM, they could be anywhere! I live across the river from Detroit, and the abductor could have easily driven here and over the bridge in 3 hours! :(

[CarrieBean]

A big speech to try to defend their actions to the public.

[badme102]

Was it Victoria's Father?

I thought it was an Aunt, but I could be mistaken.

[CarrieBean]

The scary thing is, if this story wasn't "released" until 3 AM, they could be anywhere! I live across the river from Detroit, and the abductor could have easily driven here and over the bridge in 3 hours! :(
Yep. :( Passports aren't needed yet to cross. No photo ID for kids. Wouldn't be difficult.

[CarrieBean]

I thought it was an Aunt, but I could be mistaken.
I could be mistaken.

[doubletrouble]

This isnt what i expected to come out of the conferance today...they are circling around the wagon... havent come up with anything besides a change of wording from missing to abduction..however we are to know that it makes no differance as they are essentially treated the same (not).. i really have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach...no answers...

[Infojunkie]

You're right

Family members said they have been endlessly watching the video and racking their brains. Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, estimates he has watched the tape more than 400 times.

"From the first time that I watched that video, there has always been something about that stride, but I just can't place it," he said. "I can't at all."

CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/15/woodstock-missing.html)

I thought it was more specific than that.

[CarrieBean]

This isnt what i expected to come out of the conferance today...they are circling around the wagon... havent come up with anything besides a change of wording from missing to abduction..however we are to know that it makes no differance as they are essentially treated the same (not).. i really have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach...no answers...
Neither of them looked very confident. Especially when they were questioned about it being changed to an abduction.

[jaycee]

Tori's disappearance now considered abduction

Updated: Fri Apr. 17 2009 11:01:59 AM

CTV.ca News Staff

The case of the disappearance for Tori Stafford in Woodstock, Ont. is now considered an abduction, the Ontario Provincial Police said Friday as they took over the investigation.

Ontario Provincial Police Det. Inspector Bill Renton, who has taken over the lead role in the case, told a news conference that after analyzing all of the evidence they have found so far, "we are now considering this case a child abduction."

"This will have no bearing on how we deploy our resources or change the focus of the investigation. Our focus remains to find Tori," Renton said.

"We are confident someone has information about Tori's whereabouts. We are asking you to do the right thing and contact police immediately."

"To the person or persons responsible for this horrendous crime, I want you to know that the Oxford Community Police are committed to finding Tori. The OPP along with all police services across this province and nation are following the evidence that will lead us to Victoria Stafford. I encourage you to do the right thing and bring her home."

Renton wouldn't be specific about what evidence had led his team to upgrade the investigation from a missing persons case to an abduction.

"To try and articulate to you now the evidence that has taken us there would certainly hamper the integrity of the investigation and any subsequent action we might take," Renton said.

Eight-year-old Stafford has been missing since last Wednesday afternoon.

The day after her disappearance, police obtained a surveillance video from a nearby high school that showed Tori walking with an unidentified woman in a white coat. The third grader appears comfortable with the woman and seems to go with her willingly.

No one, including Tori's estranged parents, has been able to identify the woman in the grainy video, who has long, dark hair and appears to be in her early 20s.

Following a massive search effort by volunteers and police, Oxford police called off the ground search Monday.

The provincial force is now expected to broaden the search beyond the Woodstock area.

The Oxford Community Police force has been criticized for their handling of Tori's disappearance. Some have said they should have immediately issued an Amber Alert -- an urgent bulletin notifying the public and the media when a child has been abducted.

Oxford police say they acted as quickly as possible with the facts they had. They say they were notified of the girl's disappearance at around 6 p.m. on Wednesday. Before midnight that day, police in other jurisdictions were notified, and by 3 a.m., a notice went out to the media.

Oxford Police Chief Ron Fraser told reporters Friday that no Amber Alert was issued because they had no evidence on the day of her disappearance of a possible abduction.

Fraser said the OPP will now take the lead role in the investigation at his request. And he once again defended his team's investigation.

"Our job is to follow every evidence and to take it where it leads us, and whether described as a missing person or abduction, it makes no matter; the investigation is the same process," he said.

"Either way, the matter has been investigated appropriately from the outset."

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090417/stafford_090417/20090417/?hub=TorontoNewHome

[Tonia]

Tori's mom expected to speak live at 1 p.m.

Tara McDonald, Tori’s mother, is holding a press conference at her home at 1 p.m. today, which is expected to be live-streamed here at lfpress.com

There are more than 900 tips so far, Renton said.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/2009/04/17/9147216.html

[msfittz]

I only have a minute to post, but was wondering if the fact that Tori's dad waited until the next day at 6 p.m. to notify the police has been discussed. I saw this info. on the Astro requests thread, post #161.

I've read through most of this thread, and don't recall seeing anything about this, but apologize if I'm wrong.

[Danaya]

While I understand some people are upset that the amber alert wasn't issued, can we move on from blaming the police who are hard at work and just trying to do their jobs? We don't know the circumstances and I think it's too early to form judgements on the police force and the men and women in charge of the investigation. Amber alert wasn't issued for reasons not clearly known to the public, now it's time to find her, regardless.

[Tonia]

The Amber Alert was not issued because there were no signs of a struggle and no evidence of an abduction.

[Danaya]

The Amber Alert was not issued because there were no signs of a struggle and no evidence of an abduction.

Exactly, and posters have commented that just because she didn't struggle doesn't mean she wasn't abducted. There has been speculation here that she may have been threatened at gun point to keep walking or was too trusting and went with a stranger. The point is, is we as the public don't have all the information, actually we don't even have close to as much information as the police do. To

It's been stated numerous times that the police were wrong, they made a mistake in not issuing the amber alert, the police are back peddling, etc. The point is, an amber alert wasn't issued and I would like to see this thread go in a direction of support and not resentment towards the men and women of the police force. It's still too early for me to decide that the police force was wrong and what the circumstances were surrounding this abductiom.

[doubletrouble]

is there an astro thread at all on tori? if so can anyone link me to it..i cant seem to find one

bump..sorry to bump my own post...has anyone seen any astro on tori?

[msfittz]

bump..sorry to bump my own post...has anyone seen any astro on tori?

There's a request in.

[Tonia]

Because of Sandra Cantu's case, it doesn't bring any relief to know that Tori is with a woman. Dang, people need to stop taking children!

[doubletrouble]

Exactly, and posters have commented that just because she didn't struggle doesn't mean she wasn't abducted. There has been speculation here that she may have been threatened at gun point to keep walking or was too trusting and went with a stranger. The point is, is we as the public don't have all the information, actually we don't even have close to as much information as the police do. To

It's been stated numerous times that the police were wrong, they made a mistake in not issuing the amber alert, the police are back peddling, etc. The point is, an amber alert wasn't issued and I would like to see this thread go in a direction of support and not resentment towards the men and women of the police force. It's still too early for me to decide that the police force was wrong and what the circumstances were surrounding this abductiom.

okay im not going to get into placing blame here or there...im also not going to post in detail about my experience..but from experience...my neice was abducted on a sunday., no amber alert was issued than...the following day the car wash seen carlie abducted on camera and monday the amber alert was issued..the next day...
Carlie was found days later ... abducted and murdered... and she showed no resistance in her surviellance abduction clip... moo

[ella's mom]

I am going to be in a meeting at the time of the presser. Can someone please post details. Thanks!!

I agree with the most recent posts. We have all done the "should have, would have, could haves" at certain points in our lives. I am sure LE is doing that as well here, but it isn't going to help the case moving forward. So let's all move forward ourselves and continue to support and pray for Tori and the men and women that are so desperately searching for her.

JMO

[Infojunkie]

Gah...move your head, you with the short black hair.

[Dee10]

I saw the press conference for the Aunt & then the mother... The Aunt believes it is someone Tori knows & is comforted that it is not going in the direction of a stranger at this time. The mother wants it to be a stranger because she doesn't want to think it is someone in her circle. The Aunt is very gracious and thanks everyone, the mother seems hostile. The aunt says although the family gets along, they meet in separate family groups. The mother says she talks to the father everyday. It was like night & day.

My impression of the police conference is they have a good idea of who the woman is. I also noted both Officers used the words they want to bring Tory home "to her loved ones." I thought that was an unusual phrase to use instead of family. They also haven't ruled the family out after they have taken polygraphs on Sat. Would this be unusual if they have all passed?

[Danaya]

I saw the press conference for the Aunt & then the mother... The Aunt believes it is someone Tori knows & is comforted that it is not going in the direction of a stranger at this time. The mother wants it to be a stranger because she doesn't want to think it is someone in her circle. The Aunt is very gracious and thanks everyone, the mother seems hostile. The aunt says although the family gets along, they meet in separate family groups. The mother says she talks to the father everyday. It was like night & day.

My impression of the police conference is they have a good idea of who the woman is. I also noted both Officers used the words they want to bring Tory home "to her loved ones." I thought that was an unusual phrase to use instead of family. They also haven't ruled the family out after they have taken polygraphs on Sat. Would this be unusual if they have all passed?

Hm, I have the same "feeling" as the Aunt in regards to this. I think it's quite possible she is still alive. I would rather it be somebody took her in order to "gain something" from her parents and that something is worked out, some how so that she is returned to her family. With many stranger abductions the motive is very disturbing so I'm hoping it wasn't a stranger because it's probably even harder to find a stranger.

Even just dropping her off in a park or something, I'm sure the police are really going through the family's inner circle and aquiantances trying to figure out who might have 'reason' to take her. Please return her to her family, it's not worth it to take someone's child!

I'm not sure they would announce if they ruled the family out, would they? I think they should if the family passed, but maybe they don't want to announce it to the public for some reason. Will be checking here for updates.

[Infojunkie]

I'm surprised none of the reporters asked if the family had been cleared. We haven't heard the results of the tests either. I wonder if the term loved ones is just because this is a small tight knit community. I'm thinking he meant friends, family and community.

I missed the aunt's presser, but I agree with the mother being hostile. I'm chalking it up to frustration that she wasn't believed that her daughter was abducted and that the extra resources of the OPP were brought in so late. That's only my opinion of course.

[ThoughtElf]

I've been confused too. Let's hope it is a custody situation because the alternative is not good. Truthfully tho, I don't think this is a family thing.

I'll be checking this out all day. I'm not all that far away, east of Toronto.

I'm very close, too. West of TO.

[ThoughtElf]

The police and family are giving very little information to the media. We have not seen any helicopters since Thursday. Volunteer searchers were out yesterday, overseen by police. Nothing so far, nor has there been any information about the woman that was seen in the video, or even if they were able to identify and speak to the man they walked past.

Kaas, will you post for us if a larger search is arranged? I can be there in 40 min.

[Dee10]

Provincial police Det.-Insp. Bill Renton, who is now spearheading the case, said investigators have "analyzed the evidence and we've come to the conclusion that it's an abduction."
He wouldn't be specific about what evidence had led him to that conclusion.
"To try and articulate to you now the evidence that has taken us there would certainly hamper the integrity of the investigation and any subsequent action we might take," Renton said.
On Wednesday, the girl's mother, Tara McDonald, lashed out at police for not handling Tori's disappearance as an abduction. McDonald was to speak publicly on the case Friday afternoon.
The investigation has so far been focused on the Woodstock area, near London, Ont.
"I think the focus of the evidence is still here in the city of Woodstock," said Renton, who added he could not rule out the possibility the girl has been taken outside the community. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090417/national/missing_girl_21

[coldcasedetective]

I'm relieved that they are finally calling this an abduction - better late than never I suppose.
I'm not quite sure why they still believe that the focus of their investigation is in Woodstock. There are so many places they could take her where she wouldn't be recognized. There is the 401 highway nearby, which runs from Windsor to Quebec, making a quick getaway very easy. Also, Woodstock is near the junction to the 403 highway, which links to Niagara Falls and another American border crossing, as well as being not too far away from the 402 - which links to Sarnia and yet another border crossing. That's not to mention all the smaller rural highways that lead up to Northern Ontario. I just wish they would give us some reason to believe that all of these possible escape routes aren't plausible.

[ella's mom]

Just being Devil's Advocate here. The father seems to recognize the walk, but not the person. Is it possible the female is wearing a disguise of some sort? Possibly the wig to cover up her hair, large coat to cover up her frame? Maybe the girl knew her "well" and the abductor told her she was just dressing up for fun? Any thoughts or do you think I am way off?

Do we have approximate size for family members (weight, height, etc)?

We have seen people in the past make up stories for sympathy, money, etc.

Please note, I am not saying this is the case, just trying to look at all possibilities.

This thought came to mind when I saw LE not putting the effort forth I thought they should have earlier.

JMO

[roseofsharon]

Could someone please tell me what LE means. I have seen it used a lot on this forum. Thanks!!

[ella's mom]

Could someone please tell me what LE means. I have seen it used a lot on this forum. Thanks!!

Law Enforcement

[kaas]

Kaas, will you post for us if a larger search is arranged? I can be there in 40 min.

It is has been clarified that there were witnesses that confirm it is Victoria (Tori) in the video.
I believe the police have a full list of volunteers for organised searches and the police have been searching various areas. Many people have been out searching on their own, today I saw several individuals pull over on our rural road and use binocculars to look in to fields and woodlots.
The community has come together in a tremendous way to attempt to bring Tori home and I do hope she is found safe very soon.
.

[elepher50]

Forgive me if this has been posted before - I am just starting to get caught up on this thread. The first thing I looked at was the video and the one thing that stood out to me was that it looks like the woman has a purse slung from her right shoulder over the neck to her left side. While not always true, it may possibly be an indicator that this woman is left handed. Just an observation - nothing more than that. Some right handed people sling their purses to the left side as well so I wouldn't make too much out of this.

[Lexiintoronto]

It is has been clarified that there were witnesses that confirm it is Victoria (Tori) in the video.
I believe the police have a full list of volunteers for organised searches and the police have been searching various areas. Many people have been out searching on their own, today I saw several individuals pull over on our rural road and use binocculars to look in to fields and woodlots.
The community has come together in a tremendous way to attempt to bring Tori home and I do hope she is found safe very soon.
.

I'm in Toronto - do you think that if you have us outside volunteers there that we can help?

[Crazy Canuck]

CentralAlberta, I don't know a whole lot about their special divisions but I think a case like this is better off with the OPP. They do work with many organizations, Nationally and Internationally. I was wondering, too, why that video wasn't enhanced more. Hopefully the family will get/already has some answers today.

OPP stands for The Ontario Provincial Police. They cover areas that are not covered by a local police force (ie. highways and rural areas in between jurisdictions). They also cover towns that don't have a local police force of their own. They have more resources and manpower than the local police. As well, since she likely isn't in Woodstock it is out of the local police's area. Hope this helps!

On another note...readers will be pleased to know that when I was getting my lottery tickets today Tori's picture was being displayed on the lottery terminal screen.

[ella's mom]

OPP stands for The Ontario Provincial Police. They cover areas that are not covered by a local police force (ie. highways and rural areas in between jurisdictions). They also cover towns that don't have a local police force of their own. They have more resources and manpower than the local police. As well, since she likely isn't in Woodstock it is out of the local police's area. Hope this helps!

On another note...readers will be pleased to know that when I was getting my lottery tickets today Tori's picture was being displayed on the lottery terminal screen.

Thanks Crazy that helps. For those of us in the US this sounds similar to our State Police and in some instances our Sherrif Departments.

[kaas]

I'm in Toronto - do you think that if you have us outside volunteers there that we can help?


What a wonderful gesture, you can contact
Oxford Community Police at 519-421-2800 to sign up for the volunteer search group.

[jaycee]

CBC just had a news update during the hockey game and the police said that they have a lead on the mystery woman. They didn't give any details and I can't find anything on the web yet.

[nursebeeme]

:eek:Interesting article:
Tori's mom's BF: has criminal record going back 7 years.
drug possession and theft under $5000
appeared in court on TUESDAY for possession of stolen property

Rumorsof unpaid drup debt

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1525398

Things are getting interesting.
I am just reading and getting up to speed on poor little Tori! My gosh another woman abduction? Right on the heels of the Sandra Cantu case! What is going on?:eek:

[nursebeeme]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090417.wtori_blatch0417/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail


Police have a “pretty substantial direction” in identifying the mysterious woman in the white jacket who was last seen walking with eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford.




After a noticeable pause, Det.-Insp. Renton replied, “We're actively looking at many facets of that. To say anything more would be rather irresponsible. We have pretty substantial direction in that regard. … We have some leads and we're looking at some leads.”

[coldcasedetective]

I wonder how long it will take them to release what direction they have on the unidentified woman?

Side note: I'm not sure how long it takes for the OPP to update their sites, but I was perusing around their Missing Persons and Unidentified Bodies web site, and Tori's name isn't even mentioned...you'd think after a week they'd have something major like this up? JMO though...

[nursebeeme]

In the new “intensified search,” OPP will both retrace the steps taken earlier by searchers and bring in an Under Water Search and Recovery Unit, which will be “scouring all local waterways looking for clues.”



The OPP will also go door-to-door in the tiny community, which has held numerous rallies of support for Tori's family. Police will be asking new questions about evidence they've already collected



The announcement is another potential sign of progress in the case, and comes after OPP Detective Inspector Bill Renton stumbled at an earlier news conference when asked if they'd identified the woman in the white jacket. After a long pause, he said officers have a “pretty substantial direction” in figuring out who she is.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090417.wmissingtori0417/BNStory/National

[Infojunkie]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090417.wmissingtori0417/BNStory/National

Thanks for the article...one thing that jumped out at me.

Ms. McDonald has always said that on the videotape, Tori doesn't seem her normal ebullient self; she was a “hop-skip-jumper,” she has said, and both she and Tori's big brother, 10-year-old Daryn, believe Tori appears subdued. Ms. McDonald said she continues to believe her daughter was taken by a stranger.

Why no tears? Is she all out and in full frustration and anger mode?

[Dee10]

Mom seems to be trying to divert attention away from herself & the area IMO. Just one in stance; what mother would hope their daughter is in the hands of a stranger???? The reason she indicated is "she didn't want to think a friend would do that" basically. The real father's sister said the opposite (this was a presser before the mother mind you), they hope it was someone known, because (basically) they would take care of her. Big difference obviously!