Rant/Emotion Overload

[Salem]

This is the place to post your rants :mad: and also to post any feelings of sadness :(, shock :eek:, being overwhelmed :sick:, or to find/offer support :blowkiss: with other posters.

This case appears to be very brutal and it is a shock to the system because of the identified perp. A woman, a mother, a Sunday school teacher.:eek::eek:

So come here when you are looking for a friend or just need to get something relating to the case off your chest.

Salem

[Kat]

Thank you Salem for this thread and for your hug earlier. I asked the mods to bring my other post over here to the appropriate thread. :blowkiss:

[nittany90]

Thanks for starting this space.
As a past newspaper reporter and child abuse investigator, I've seen so many sad, sad things. But, this case has absolutely shaken my sense of security.
How often have we told our kids, that if they're ever lost, to find the first mother with small children they see?? In our naivete, we thought mothers were a source of safety for our kids. With the facts coming to light in this case, that sense of security is ripped away from us.
My heart goes out to Sandra's family. It seems they were lured into a false sense of security by thinking she was safe in her own little community, just 5 doors down, in broad daylight, in the care of her playmate's mother, who was also a Sunday school teacher.
I am so sad thinking about Sandra's final minutes on this earth. And
so sad that it seems our kids are not safe anywhere anymore.

[Lyn1001]

Thanks for starting this space.
As a past newspaper reporter and child abuse investigator, I've seen so many sad, sad things. But, this case has absolutely shaken my sense of security.
How often have we told our kids, that if they're ever lost, to find the first mother with small children they see?? In our naivete, we thought mothers were a source of safety for our kids. With the facts coming to light in this case, that sense of security is ripped away from us.
My heart goes out to Sandra's family. It seems they were lured into a false sense of security by thinking she was safe in her own little community, just 5 doors down, in broad daylight, in the care of her playmate's mother, who was also a Sunday school teacher.
I am so sad thinking about Sandra's final minutes on this earth. And
so sad that it seems our kids are not safe anywhere anymore.

It kind of makes me want to lock my daughter and myself in the house and never leave. =(

[lovelabs]

Thank you for starting this thread. I've been sick to my tummy not only from the start that Sandra was missing but as the facts of the case starting coming out. To be squished inside a suitcase and tossed in mucky water, then to find out it was a woman, and to top it off what happened to poor Sandra before she died, well it just eats me up inside. Its one of those that I just can't wrap my brain around so I know I'll never be able to make sense out of this.

2 yrs ago my brother lost his 5 yr old son by choking on a piece of popcorn. He was lifelined from one hospital that wasn't equipped to deal with that kind of trauma to another hospital where he stayed for 3 weeks before passing on. I know how much that ate me up thinking about how scared my little nephew must've been not being able to catch his breath. I can't even begin to imagine what all must've been going through Sandra's mind and I can't even being to imagine the impact the family must be going through.

Just in the up to minute news thread today there has been 2 (that I recall) more cases of baby/child abuse.

I know there are lots and lots of good people in this world, but why does it seem that there is more evil abound than good.

It makes me wonder... how bad was it way back when, when according to the bible that God was so disgusted by us humans that he flooded the earth so that we could start all over again. (For those that believe). Its hard for me to imagine that it was worse than the evil that we see in the news everyday.

RIP Sandra
Prayers to your family and all the families out there.

[tenaj23]

I really feel so sad and frustrated about these crimes (Caylee, Sandra and all those kids we dont know about)
I've become so fearful about my 2 1/2 year old daughter that I thank god she's under my care 24/7. All this has definitely had a negative an impact on me and am sure on so many parents out there that find it hard to trust anybody now with their kids.

I feel very saddened for Sandra's parents. I also want to ask all parents out there to please be careful when letting their kids out to play or leaving them with other people.

I just really needed to get this off my chest

[darlin gal]

All parents should see to it that their kids get R.A.D. training. If they don't have it in your school, visit the website and start a program in your area. It teaches and empowers kids on how to protect themselves whenever they might be in a situation where we can't be there to protect them ourselves.

R.A.D. Instruction:
* Strengthens a child's self-confidence and self-esteem at every level.
* Helps children distinguish between appropriate and inappropriate touch.
* Teaches children that offenders can be children or adults of any age, size, color, sex and either "strangers" or people they know.
* Emphasizes the fact that inappropriate adult behavior is never the fault of the child.
* Teaches the children tricks abductors and pedophiles may try to use to lure them or abduct them. It teaches them how to act/react and protect themselves.
* Incorporates demonstrations and rehearsal of desired behavior by each child.
* Also talks and teaches them about physical abuse, school violence and bullying.

http://www.radkids.org (http://www.radkids.org/)

[RhythmicSun]

Thank you Salem.

I was visiting the area last weekend and I drove out there on Monday morning. As I was driving, I was thinking about the REASON I was doing it. A little girl is dead. A family grieving so unnecessarily. A town that seems quiet and normal on the surface, like any other American town, yet there are sinister, destructive forces and deadly activities going on behind the scenes.

As I drove past the dairy farm, there were three birds that were playing and soaring over the property. They were swooping and darting and looked so happy and free. Suddenly I thought of Caylee, Haleigh and Sandra. Interpret it how you will. To me it means they are happy and free and with the Creator. No longer in pain, and rejoicing in the place they are now in. Waiting for other loved ones to join them behind the veil when their time comes.

Drove back through the town, saw a medical office plaque by a building - vandersloot. A coincidental reminder of the evil that exists in this world. I thought about the times my now adult daughter played outside, rode her bike around the block... the one and only time she walked to school with her neighbor friend "just for the experience" - but never again because it just isn't safe. (That was 17 years ago.)

I prayed for Sandra's family and the entire community. I prayed for light to be shed on this ENTIRE crime, this ENTIRE situation, that justice be brought to ALL involved. And there are many. My prayers also go out to the people in the Lawless Huckaby families who are innocent, and for justice regarding those who may not be innocent.

[Robyn623]

Thank you for this thread. This case was both an eye opener and a shocker. I'm not sure if it is just what happened to Sandra or if it is the totality of the cases of violence against children that we have been hearing about lately. I'm just sick to my stomach knowing I can't let my kids go out and enjoy themselves like I did as a child.

I used to live in a MHP as a kid and I had free reign over where I went as long as I stayed in the park. I used to visit friends & ride my bike all over the park. I'm so saddened that my children cannot experience that freedom that comes with exploring with friends. My kids (10 & 8) go outside and play by themselves but they know to go nowhere near the road and to run inside if someone approaches the yard. Lately I've been going outside and checking on them more frequently. I hate it that they can't be kids anymore. What happened to the rights of our children? :(

Thanks for letting me post. I've been sad lately and it feels a bit better to get it off my chest.

[Columbo]

Thank you for starting this thread. This case has been overwhelming emotionally, and I can't even begin to imagine what Sandra's family is going through. It's all too horrible for words.

[SeriouslySearching]

Pervs are not new. My rant is people have been so sheltered to believe these evil people didn't exist until recently!! I keep hearing about how our children can't be children now etc. It really wasn't a safer world before...we were just living in a world where it was not reported frequently, people preferred to not address the issues, and LE didn't believe the children over the adults involved. There was no media to report on the many cases which did make to LE and the very few that did hit the news were the most horrific.

Decades ago, a friend of mine was approached on her way to school (a block away) by a perv who was in a vehicle, naked from the waist down, and tried to grab her off the street. His attempt thankfully failed, but she was quite shaken up by the incident. It was something I never forgot (I saw the sheer terror on her face when she got to school that morning) and I began to pay attention to those type of reports by others. There were many and none were caught. Adults preferred to ignore it and LE didn't take the reports seriously if they were made by children.

What has changed isn't much, but we are headed in the right direction today. It has taken millions of children suffering at the hands of cruel and evil people, but at least we know to protect our children from them in any way we can because they do exist. Children can still be children, but as adults...we need to be diligent in our efforts to prevent them from becoming tomorrow's victims and perps.

[Mouser]

Thanks for starting this thread.

This case has affected me more profoundly than any other. I live in Oakland--not too far from Tracy, but I don't think that is the reason. I have a good friend who has been equally touched by Sandra's death and we have concluded that it is not only because of the sheer horror of the crime, but because we feel a strong sense of identity with Sandra. She seemed to represent the "every girl", beautiful--but not a beauty pageant queen, happy, robust and unprivileged. We are reminded of ourselves at her age, and how life is just beginning to unveil itself. We mourn for all that she will never experience. I know she is not suffering now--I just hope her family can find peace in their hearts and joy in their lives again someday.

[Tranaice]

I don't know if I can even put into words how I am feeling. I was the same way about little Jessica Lunsford. :( I'm sad, shocked, sick, heartbroken, furious (I could go on and on) that a sweet little girl, out skipping around her neighborhood was taken by this monster and had to live the last few minutes of her life probably in terror. I cannot comprehend how someone could do this. I'm having a hard time with this. I just pray that they throw her in prison and throw away the key and let some of them put her through what little Sandra went through. :praying:

[KoldKase]

I think this case has hit everyone hard who advocates for victims or just loves children. Perhaps it's because of the video of a carefree child on a sunny spring day skipping along...it's almost unbearable.

I do want to thank everyone here who is keeping the news articles and video links up to date for us. It's a time consuming job, I know. I've posted a link to this forum at FFJ as y'all do such a great job. Thanks, and thank again.

A prayer for the Cantu family. May their dark journey end with memories of love and joy with Sandra.

[Animal04216]

moving this one for kat:

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Kat Kat is online now
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This is off topic to this thread but I didn't want to start a new one. I don't think it warrants it just yet, but the mods may decide otherwise

I have followed a lot of these cases before I came to WS. I'm here because this has been an interest of mine for a long time. The first case that ever really touched me was the Susan Smith case.

But Sandra's case has effected me in a profoundly emotional way in such a short time. I actually have cried a few times during the short duration of this case. Listening to Sandra's Mother, Sandra herself reminding me of my own children, reading the complaint brought before the court and the horrors Sandra suffered.

It is making me rethink several stances that I have had that were very liberal in certain ways, towards perps. (I'll be happy to discuss that later once I have sorted through all of it). Even more O/T last night my 18 yr old son was very late coming home from a scheduled appointment and I was frantic...absolutely frantic about him being gone. Not good. Just wanted to share.

__________________

[Peculiar Petunia]

I get furious with our society when things like this happen. You get JonBenet, turned into a sex object by her kooky mother, and now there's this recent spate of murders of young girls. Role models in the media? Piffle! We have the First Lady, and Oprah. (not that there's anything wrong with them) The other women we see are a bunch of "starvelets" created by a society who want to make girls and women disappear!

Yes, other cultures can be worse in their abuses of women. But I think daughters are becoming more and more devalued in our country at large.

[moonlighting]

Pervs are not new. My rant is people have been so sheltered to believe these evil people didn't exist until recently!! I keep hearing about how our children can't be children now etc. It really wasn't a safer world before...we were just living in a world where it was not reported frequently, people preferred to not address the issues, and LE didn't believe the children over the adults involved. There was no media to report on the many cases which did make to LE and the very few that did hit the news were the most horrific.

Decades ago, a friend of mine was approached on her way to school (a block away) by a perv who was in a vehicle, naked from the waist down, and tried to grab her off the street. His attempt thankfully failed, but she was quite shaken up by the incident. It was something I never forgot (I saw the sheer terror on her face when she got to school that morning) and I began to pay attention to those type of reports by others. There were many and none were caught. Adults preferred to ignore it and LE didn't take the reports seriously if they were made by children.

What has changed isn't much, but we are headed in the right direction today. It has taken millions of children suffering at the hands of cruel and evil people, but at least we know to protect our children from them in any way we can because they do exist. Children can still be children, but as adults...we need to be diligent in our efforts to prevent them from becoming tomorrow's victims and perps.

SS, I think you are so right. For me, as a mom, Adam Walsh changed everything. Adam died in 1981. My son was born in 1983, and parents became much more cautious. As a child in the early 60,s, I was allowed to wander in a store while my mom shopped, as long as I didn't go out the door. When my own child accompanied me, he had to stay on the same aisle, in my line of sight.

But sadly, as with Sandra, monsters aren't always strangers. When I was little (4-6), I told my mom I didn't like my pediatrician. He always did an exam that included laying down on the table, and feeling the abdomen with my clothes and underwear pulled down a bit. But what creeped me out was where his eyes were focused.
My mom was a nurse, and really didn't think he was doing anything but a check of the bowels, BUT she respected ME, and took me to another doctor.

As it turned out, in the late 70's, when I was in college, a male friend told me (in detail) that this same man molested him for years.

Then the rumors started. Finally, it turned out after my hometown newspaper ran an article about this man, over 30 victims were able to support each other.

Sadly, because of the "good old boy" system, he was still practicing as a pediatrician in my hometown (by the way SS, I live in the same state you do).

I'm just so thankful my mom listened to me. All I can tell you is that I didn't like the intensity with which he looked at me while doing his "exam" (he always had his back to my mom). He had a history of befriending single mothers. It was also rumored when my son was small that he was into child porn by then.

Moms, Dads, listen to your kids. It could be their doctor (yes, the one you then write a check to), Sunday School teacher, scout leader, teacher, neighbor, babysitter, great uncle....

Just listen to your kids, ok?

[RhythmicSun]

moonlighting, you are reminding me of my childhood dentist. I told my mother I didn't want to see him anymore after I went into puberty. Every time he picked up the bib to wipe my mouth he would put it back down and "accidentally" touch my right breast. I found out later he had a daughter my age who went to the other high school in town. Perv. :furious:

When my brother went to the dentist when I was 4 and he was 6, the dentist used to have a room where he would take kids who cried. It was the size of a closet and it was dark. He would place his hand over their mouths until they stopped crying. I remember talking to my mother about it. We moved away shortly after that to another part of the state so I never had to go to him after that, and he never did that to me, but only because I don't mind the dentist and didn't cry in his chair.

Both of those things happened decades ago. These creeps are out there everywhere and always have been.

[HarvestMoon]

These crimes depress me. There seems to be too many anymore, one right after the other. Each time a little innocent is lost and nothing we can do about it.

The club of bereft parents left to support the next ones involuntarily inducted into the club is too sad to witness at times.

[metalcrystal]

It kind of makes me want to lock my daughter and myself in the house and never leave. =(


No kidding but it's okay to be that way. When our kids were growing up I got called overprotective alot but who cares? I am from the inner city of Chicago and knew a lot about crime at an early age. I always knew where my kids were, didnt let them go off with just anybody, and if something or someone didnt feel right, I followed my instincts.Sadly you have to be that way to keep them safe in this world.

[Salem]

These crimes can be depressing and emotionally draining. I know Sandra's case has really hit me - its close, I have an 8-year old grand daughter and I am shocked by the perp, to say the least.

We do need to remember that here at WS, we focus on these crimes. Meaning we see these crimes in a lot more depth then most others do because we follow them, we sleuth them, we try to help where we can and discuss and speculate and come up with theories, so we become much more immersed than normal. Because of that, we need to remind ourselves to step back if necessary and take a breather. Go outside, play with the kids, visit a neighbor for coffee, anything that gives you a little break.


(((((hugs to all))))) (I can't find that group hug smilie),

Salem

[RhythmicSun]

I agree wholeheartedly Salem. It was good to get away for 4-5 days and take a breather, doing different things. It was a reminder to me to stay balanced.

[moonlighting]

These crimes can be depressing and emotionally draining. I know Sandra's case has really hit me - its close, I have an 8-year old grand daughter and I am shocked by the perp, to say the least.

We do need to remember that here at WS, we focus on these crimes. Meaning we see these crimes in a lot more depth then most others do because we follow them, we sleuth them, we try to help where we can and discuss and speculate and come up with theories, so we become much more immersed than normal. Because of that, we need to remind ourselves to step back if necessary and take a breather. Go outside, play with the kids, visit a neighbor for coffee, anything that gives you a little break.


(((((hugs to all))))) (I can't find that group hug smilie),

Salem

Salem,
I first came here to WS after doing a web search to find more info on Caylee than I could get watching NG (LOL). So, in other words, not so long ago. I've read posts from old timers talking about how the site has just exploded with newbies like me since the Caylee case.

Maybe some of you all who have been here longer can share some advice with us on how YOU deal with the emotions these kinds of cases bring.

Also, I'm curious, do you think we are more effected by these perps than usual because they are female? First KC, then LE in Samsuta saying MC is the key, now MH? Do you think this may be an added strain on everyone's emotions?

Really wondering what the seasoned sleuths think.:blowkiss:

[capoly]

Here it be, Salem. :grouphug:

[kiki the parrot]

Our world has changed. With the internet, crimes against children have become increasingly prolific w now widespread, systematic abuse and organized exploitation of our children in what's become a vile epidemic of child pornography. The internet breeds and reproduces pedophilia because it FEEDS this ugly, loathesome monster... and without question is making this world a sicker, more treacherous, deadly place for children. When I was growing up in the 60's, the neighborhood children ALL roamed through every inch of our wooded subdivision for hours and days on end--w/out parents in fear of whether their children would return home. It isn't that there were NO child predators or SO's then I'm quite aware they existed then too but they weren't ANYWHERE near as prevalent, because there wasn't the free, open access that they now have to consume and exchange kiddie porn. And we are NOT headed in the right direction!!

More and more families are broken, w children having to fend for themselves w either no parent--or no stable responsible parent--in the home. And the lines between adults and children have become increasingly blurred. Our entire culture has been sexualizing children at alarmingly younger and younger ages... There's no way in #e[[ I'd let my six year-old daughter out of my sight for a flippin minute and don't plan to for YEARS either. I am not going to pretend we're just noticing, or reporting, it more now... we are reaping the seeds that have been sown, and it is continuing to grow WORSE, MUCH MUCH WORSE. Well you did say we could rant here... JMO

:parrot:

[txsvicki]

Some things may have changed over the years. Once, kids weren't allowed to play indoors watching all sorts of movies, computer access, and video games. They all played outside and didn't get involved that much at all with other kids' parents. Now, kids stay indoors, get fat and out of shape with parents butting in and acting like they have to also be their friends. Kids don't need unsupervised time with parents, teachers, coaches, church people, etc. Some of the nastiest, hateful women I've ever seen work as hourly wage workers up at the school. They need to be watched for physical abuse as well. Everyone is a stranger except a few trusted family members as far as I'm concerned. This has woke me up. There'll never be any nice women who are family of family or anything else ever hauling my grandkids to church.

[r0tflcopter]

I've been browsing this site for about 3 years or so, and have seen some of the most horrific crimes brought out to detail. I guess after a while you kinda get used to knowing what will happen next. I'm not quite sure why this case has me thinking so much. Maybe because she lived less than 20 minutes time from me, where her picture was flashed everyday for days when she went missing. It seemed when she was missing that the police were exhausting every viable option they could to find her, and i thought that for once, just maybe, she would have a happy ending. Not another little girl taken. And then we learned that she was dead, and worse, the manner of how she was found, and how i had been planning to volunteer to search for her soon. Maybe it's the surveillence tapes and pictures that show a normal, happy, 8-year-old girl living like any other girl her age would, rejoicing over Hannah Montana presents. Maybe because I remember being 8 years old and never even having the thought of something so horrific cross my mind. The media have brought out her personality and family so vividly at times. I saw a commercial on T.V tonight for the Hannah Montana movie during the evening news and for a split second i thought of little Sandra Cantu and how excited she probably was for this movie to come out, and now never will.

I just hate how it was someone so trustworthy. Don't talk to stranger's, we say to our kids, but its never "be on the look out for your best friend's mother!". It SHOULDN'T be. It's not shocking to me that the murderer is a sunday school teacher, its shocking to me that it's someone whom Sandra probably knew for a full year or so, and Huckaby took full advantage of that. How can anyone look at that video of her and then act on her the way they did? It's downright insane, and pisses me off that she wasn't safe at her BEST FRIEND'S house, a whole 75 yards from her house!

I just can't imagine what Ms. Chavez and the family could possibly be going through right now. I can't imagine the "what-if-i-had"s going through her head, and the loss she'll have to experience for the rest of her life. She's had someone taken from her unjustly and unfairly.

I guess that's just a rant i needed to get out. Thanks for this post salem, it was much needed. My my, that was long.

[mgardner]

I've been a follower of missing children since Danielle Van Dam -- that one hit close to home, as I worked with Damon. Then on to Scott Peterson, and on and on.

I have a now 11 year old, and my mom always told me I keep him wrapped in cotton wool. The truth - yes, I do. I drive him to school everyday, and hubby picks him up. Today I panicked when husband called to say that our son wasn't by the tree where he is picked up everyday. He said "I'll call you right back". 5 minutes later, he still hadn't called - I called, and thankfully, my son was just running a few minutes late. I was suprised by my reaction when I said "Honey - you know how I feel about missing children, why didn't you call me back". That's how paranoid I've become.

THIS case now has me thinking of sleepovers, friend visits to other homes. You think you can trust the parents -- but can we really? I've let my son visit friends many times, but all I do is sit home and worry. Most of the time I suggest they come over here -- I am so protective of my and my friend's children.

Yes, these cases get to me each and every time. And yes, there are days that I don't even want to step outside! Just the other day (OT) a woman was shopping at Kroeger's and a guy ran by and grabbed her purse right out of her cart and ran out the door.

Are any of us safe???

Bless,

Melanie

[aprilshowers]

Question: Are pedophiles usually violent toward adults or people in general, OTHER than the children they abuse?

[concentric]

[QUOTE=mgardner;3614736]I've been a follower of missing children since Danielle Van Dam -- that one hit close to home, as I worked with Damon. Then on to Scott Peterson, and on and on.

I have a now 11 year old, and my mom always told me I keep him wrapped in cotton wool. The truth - yes, I do. I drive him to school everyday, and hubby picks him up. Today I panicked when husband called to say that our son wasn't by the tree where he is picked up everyday. He said "I'll call you right back". 5 minutes later, he still hadn't called - I called, and thankfully, my son was just running a few minutes late. I was suprised by my reaction when I said "Honey - you know how I feel about missing children, why didn't you call me back". That's how paranoid I've become.

Hi. I don't think you're being paranoid at all. The pick-up after school situation never fails to provoke over-protectiveness in me, whether I'm in the role of a teacher or a mom.

I never have and probably never will allow my child to walk home from school.

Are you posting in the Tori case, where she just disappears with a woman after school?

[concentric]

Once again, it makes me disgusted and ill that yet another person placed in a position of trust for children has turned out to be just the opposite.

I'm talking from both the viewpoint of being a parent and of being a teacher.

[lngrid]

This story shows how it important to be very careful and not let ourselves get carried away in anger over what happened to sweet, beautiful little Sandra Cantu. A second, innocent woman named Melissa Huckaby lives in Tracy, CA. She's also 28 years old, a single mother of a 5 year old and is a Sunday school teacher. Apparently she's been getting death threats and her whole family is traumatised:

California Sunday School Teacher Mistaken for Accused Child Killer
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Associated Press (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516628,00.html)

Please pardon me if you have come across this message posted on other threads, but it's so important to get the word out even to future visitors or casual visitors who may read only this thread.

[lovelabs]

This story shows how it important to be very careful and not let ourselves get carried away in anger over what happened to sweet, beautiful little Sandra Cantu. A second, innocent woman named Melissa Huckaby lives in Tracy, CA. She's also 28 years old, a single mother of a 5 year old and is a Sunday school teacher. Apparently she's been getting death threats and her whole family is traumatised:

California Sunday School Teacher Mistaken for Accused Child Killer
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Associated Press
(carried on foxnews.com)

Please pardon me if you have come across this message posted on other threads, but it's so important to get the word out even to future visitors or casual visitors who may read only this thread.

WOW, now what are the chances of that? I feel bad for the "other" M Huckaby, I'd find out of the middle names are different and start to sign my name everywhere with my middle initial/name if I were her.

Its a real shame that these selfish criminals don't for one moment take into consideration the people their actions affect. but then again, I guess you have to have a conscious.:mad:

[concentric]

First and foremost, I grieve for little Sandra Cantu, poor innocent baby, child of the Lord.

If all of this is true about Huckaby (the suspect); she has managed with one fell swoop to disgrace all of the noble traits of: woman, mother, teacher, Christian, etc. And you can bet I'm mad!!!!

[Salem]

And I'm on emotion overload. I can not watch the video of the horse drawn carriage. So beautiful for such a beautiful child. I posted in Adnoid's thread about today's service, but doubt I made any sense, because all I can do is weep at the moment. Such soggy eyes, have I.

Prayers to Sandra's family. Prayers to the Lord that Sandra is flying high in the wings of Angels and prayers for myself that I might understand someday.

Salem

[concentric]

And I'm on emotion overload. I can not watch the video of the horse drawn carriage. So beautiful for such a beautiful child. I posted in Adnoid's thread about today's service, but doubt I made any sense, because all I can do is weep at the moment. Such soggy eyes, have I.

Prayers to Sandra's family. Prayers to the Lord that Sandra is flying high in the wings of Angels and prayers for myself that I might understand someday.

Salem

I weep and pray with you Salem.

[aprilshowers]

OK .. so nobody has answered yet, let me ask again:

Are pedophiles usually violent toward adults or people in general, OTHER than the children they abuse?

I'm asking because, if I come across a missing child, I will NOT let them out of my sight! And I'll tell ya, I'm so pissed at those F'ing jerks out there (abusers), that I'd better find out if they're just cowards to adults or not ... because I just know there's no way, I'll let them walk away with that child!!!

So, do any of you know the 'profile' character of a pedophile/abuser?

[Salem]

OK .. so nobody has answered yet, let me ask again:

Are pedophiles usually violent toward adults or people in general, OTHER than the children they abuse?

I'm asking because, if I come across a missing child, I will NOT let them out of my sight! And I'll tell ya, I'm so pissed at those F'ing jerks out there (abusers), that I'd better find out if they're just cowards to adults or not ... because I just know there's no way, I'll let them walk away with that child!!!

So, do any of you know the 'profile' character of a pedophile/abuser?

April - I don't know. I would think it depends on the pedo. I'm not sure how to say this, but some pedos seem to just do what they do without putting physical marks on the child. So it is only discovered if the child is taken to the doctor. Others leave marks that arouse suspicion. I would think that the ones that do not leave marks are probably not violent overall and vice versa for the others.

I do think when confronted, they are cowards that will not look you in the eye. Would the pedo act out violently? Good possibility, depending on how cornered he/she felt.

You have to use your best judgment when confronting such a person - maybe it is better to get on your cell phone to LE and follow the person as inconspicously as possible?

Salem

[tiredofthis]

Question: Are pedophiles usually violent toward adults or people in general, OTHER than the children they abuse?

Pedophiles are generally some of the nicest people you will ever meet, and I mean that, because they lure their victims by being nice or extra helpful. If people could only see through the mask they present to the world, they would find someone who is sick, twisted, and deeply disturbed.

The old saying "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" fits here.

[concentric]

Pedophiles are generally some of the nicest people you will ever meet, and I mean that, because they lure their victims by being nice or extra helpful. If people could only see through the mask they present to the world, they would find someone who is sick, twisted, and deeply disturbed.

The old saying "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" fits here.


Agreed. Check out this Wolf in Sheep's Clothing:

http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=233352

[JoeFromLB]

Agreed. Check out this Wolf in Sheep's Clothing:

http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=233352

One sentence really jumped out at me from that story:

"I was the neighbor next door, that's what made me so dangerous," Carroll said.

[concentric]

One sentence really jumped out at me from that story:

"I was the neighbor next door, that's what made me so dangerous," Carroll said.

He was undistinguished from any "normal" person for quite some time. That is the problem: they get away with so many offenses before they are "branded." But, sometimes I wish we had special sunglasses that would reveal in invisible ink who the pedophiles are, like in that sci-fi movie about aliens. Only, then, people would complain about "Big Brother."

[tiredofthis]

Agreed. Check out this Wolf in Sheep's Clothing:

http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=233352

What a sick monster! How dare he abuse the trust of those children! :furious: This is something the children will have to deal with for the rest of their lives.

[azwriter]

Some of you may want to Rant & Rave on me but I've got to ask this question about the photos we are seeing of Sandra.
Is it my crummy television, or does this little girl seem to have different hair colors? To me in one photo she's blonde. Then, I see her with two tone hair as if the blond is giving way to a more warm brown. Finally there is a photo where her hair appears almost black or dark brown.
Okay, this does have anything to do with this poor little angel's death and whatever she suffered at the hands of this very evil woman. But, I wanted to know if others also notice the hair color changes.
azwriter

[Sweetie_PI]

I used to investigate - more assiduously - the big money behind coordinated crimes against children, the human trafficking reality, international in scope, which makes it truly mind boggling, and often makes me prefer to be around furry and feathered friends instead of the humans. It happens that we are all caught in the dance between the sublime beauty and goodness in people and the deepest vilest evil in people. Sigh.

I don't know why Sandra Cantu's murder grabbed me, but perhaps it was the "Hello Kitty" Tshirt that reminded me I can't hide behind my furry friends. But Sandra's murder rang some investigative bells - the generational, business part of it so cleverly hidden behind a church front... and the perp on certain of ThOSE psych meds, it just was so much back to the future.

I got out of it when so many reporter colleagues I knew disappeared or ended up disappeared, or living under threat, e.g., the Juarez House of Death murders and a particular murder of a 9 y/o girl in the fields down there, the whole thing documented in Diana Washington Valdez's book "Harvest of Women" (which included many many little Latinas )... now the bells Sandra's murder were ringing were NOT along those lines, (except I did refer to the Clover Rd Baptist Church as Tracy's House of Death and I have and will have no regrets for that) I guess I'm just going on about how many different WAYS this horror against our weakest unfolds, for so many different insanities - as one can hardly call it "reason".

So Sandra, little girl who skipped into my heart, perhaps you awakened me to the work still unfinished. I will always say brave little one, you deserve a medal of honor for I suspect you took the hit for your 5 y/o friend. I know how little girls stand together to protect each other, when adults just don't listen in time about other adults who are just plain nuts.You get my personal medal of honor, because the truth of what all went on in Pedo Park will likely never be revealed, and you kept your joy held high til the end.

[concentric]

Some of you may want to Rant & Rave on me but I've got to ask this question about the photos we are seeing of Sandra.
Is it my crummy television, or does this little girl seem to have different hair colors? To me in one photo she's blonde. Then, I see her with two tone hair as if the blond is giving way to a more warm brown. Finally there is a photo where her hair appears almost black or dark brown.
Okay, this does have anything to do with this poor little angel's death and whatever she suffered at the hands of this very evil woman. But, I wanted to know if others also notice the hair color changes.
azwriter

No rant at you. Rant at the media. Good question. If a description is given, Media needs to get it right. No it's not brown always, sometimes her hair was blond. Does that mean anything. I guess not. But get it right, please.

[tiredofthis]

He was undistinguished from any "normal" person for quite some time. That is the problem: they get away with so many offenses before they are "branded." But, sometimes I wish we had special sunglasses that would reveal in invisible ink who the pedophiles are, like in that sci-fi movie about aliens. Only, then, people would complain about "Big Brother."

I agree. Pedophiles use their reputations of being nice, the person anyone can count on, to trick their victims. It would be very helpful to be able to identify who these people are, so we can steer our children away from them. Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way.

[Mendara]

I remember when my little sister was doing her holy communion, she had to give her first confession in a tiny room with a priest. She came out really quiet and allt he way home she didn't say a word, then suddenly during dinner she blurted out - "The priest looked up my dress, I don't want to go to church no more" - she was about 5 yrs old.

I remember my mom laughing and she didn't believe her, said my sister made it up cuz she didn't want to go to church. My sister is now 24 and still insist he looke dup her skirt.

Listen to your kids.

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it is wake up call for our nation. No longer can we pretend women cant be child sexual predators or that they are incapable of the most heinous acts imaginable.

I fear for the others ones that must be out there who think they will not be believed if their predator is a woman, especially if she happens to be a family member or a friend of the family.

Sandra captured my heart immediately when I saw her beautiful smiling face and the 17 second video clip will always haunt me until my dying days, I watched this precious child so jubilant and happy. Skipping along like she was so enjoying her life. Then I see her get distracted and stop skipping and instead of going home she goes on down the street never to be seen alive again. And even though I know it is too late for Sandra, I still feel such a urge each time I see it to shout to her "Sandra, don't go, don't go.........go home...run home!" and it makes me feel so helpless and heartbroken.

imo

[tiredofthis]

I remember when my little sister was doing her holy communion, she had to give her first confession in a tiny room with a priest. She came out really quiet and allt he way home she didn't say a word, then suddenly during dinner she blurted out - "The priest looked up my dress, I don't want to go to church no more" - she was about 5 yrs old.

I remember my mom laughing and she didn't believe her, said my sister made it up cuz she didn't want to go to church. My sister is now 24 and still insist he looke dup her skirt.

Listen to your kids.

Yes, LISTEN TO YOUR KIDS! Often people don't want to believe someone is a pedophile, because it is a person they trust. I know people didn't believe me when I told them about how my dad had abused me, because he was such a GREAT GUY!

[SeriouslySearching]

The last video of Sandra will haunt us all, unfortunately. I still cannot erase the video of Carlie Brucia being abducted by Smith either. :(

[oceanblueeyes]

The last video of Sandra will haunt us all, unfortunately. I still cannot erase the video of Carlie Brucia being abducted by Smith either. :(

Neither can I, SS and when I think of them I think of both of them now.

imo

[mgardner]

OK .. so nobody has answered yet, let me ask again:

Are pedophiles usually violent toward adults or people in general, OTHER than the children they abuse?

I'm asking because, if I come across a missing child, I will NOT let them out of my sight! And I'll tell ya, I'm so pissed at those F'ing jerks out there (abusers), that I'd better find out if they're just cowards to adults or not ... because I just know there's no way, I'll let them walk away with that child!!!

So, do any of you know the 'profile' character of a pedophile/abuser?

We have a pedo here in San Diego who they want to release to the community. Our community, lead mostly by radio host, Rick Roberts, is doing all we can to keep Matthew Hedge away from MY property. The years I've been following this monster, his history is violent acts against children. He's too much of a coward to hurt someone his own age, or someone who can defend him/herself. He's a true monster. Thankfully, a judge ruled that Hedge was ordered placed in the community in a trailer on a site adjacent to Donovan State Prison in Otay Mesa on April 13, 2009. That makes me feel a little bit safer -- but we're not sure how long it's going to last.

Anyway, I feel once a pedo always a pedo. I don't think there's such thing as rehab. Which makes me only imagine that Sandra wasn't the first victim of MH. Pedo's don't normally mess with adults (IMHO).

Best,

Melanie

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we need a Q and A thread to keep things straight on the rant thread. (We are supposed to use it for the intended purpose.)

[mgardner]

[QUOTE=mgardner;3614736]
Hi. I don't think you're being paranoid at all. The pick-up after school situation never fails to provoke over-protectiveness in me, whether I'm in the role of a teacher or a mom.

I never have and probably never will allow my child to walk home from school.

Are you posting in the Tori case, where she just disappears with a woman after school?

Hi concentric,

No, I haven't been following the Tori case too closely. I'm concerned with that one as well, and haven't posted, as I don't want to jump the gun. But if you're anyone like me, I would never let my 8 year old walk home from school. Why did the parents wait until the evening to report her missing?

On the evening of April 8, 2009, police in Woodstock, Ont. were notified that Tori had gone missing after she didn't come home from school. Police say that after classes let out, it would have taken Tori only a matter of minutes to walk from her school to where she was seen on video.


My son's school is just down the road, and is probably a 10 minute walk -- still I will not let him walk - ever. Where were Tori's parents when she didn't show up at 3:45 (school let out at 3:30).

I guess that's why I haven't posted (but we'll keep that between the 2 of us).

All the best,

Melanie

[SeriouslySearching]

Questions and Answers:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3616542#post3616542

[mgardner]

I think we need a Q and A thread to keep things straight on the rant thread. (We are supposed to use it for the intended purpose.)

Sorry I got off topic - my bad. I'll be better next time, promise!!

Hugz,

Melanie

[SeriouslySearching]

No worries...I have been just as guilty at answering posts here which we are not supposed to do. ;)

Ooops...I did it again! :doh:

[tiredofthis]

We have a pedo here in San Diego who they want to release to the community. Our community, lead mostly by radio host, Rick Roberts, is doing all we can to keep Matthew Hedge away from MY property. The years I've been following this monster, his history is violent acts against children. He's too much of a coward to hurt someone his own age, or someone who can defend him/herself. He's a true monster. Thankfully, a judge ruled that Hedge was ordered placed in the community in a trailer on a site adjacent to Donovan State Prison in Otay Mesa on April 13, 2009. That makes me feel a little bit safer -- but we're not sure how long it's going to last.

Anyway, I feel once a pedo always a pedo. I don't think there's such thing as rehab. Which makes me only imagine that Sandra wasn't the first victim of MH. Pedo's don't normally mess with adults (IMHO).

Best,

Melanie

Yes. Once a pedophile, always a pedophile. I was talking to my eighteen year old son this afternoon about Sandra Cantu and he said he couldn't understand how grownups would want to do that to children. He was shocked, and sickened when I told him it happens all of the time.

[tiredofthis]

I think we need a Q and A thread to keep things straight on the rant thread. (We are supposed to use it for the intended purpose.)

Oops! :rolleyes:

[SeriouslySearching]

During her memorial, I found myself going back and forth from sheer heartbreak to anger. The beauty of Sandra shining for the world to see and the pain etched across the faces of her family and those who loved her reminded me of the unbearable loss. The words of those who tried to comfort us and the songs meant to inspire hope brought me back to the reality of the reasons why we here.

I asked myself if we are doing any one any good by sitting here day after day asking questions and trying to find simple answers. I asked myself if this is a waste of time and energy for the hundreds of us who dig into such cases hoping to find something to bring a child or a missing person home to their loved ones. I asked myself if trying to bring justice into such an unjust world is an impossible task.

The answer I received was very clear when I looked at Sandra's smile in her photo and turned around towards the tv to catch the last glimpse of her with her arms swinging wildly as she skipped towards home. It is worth it.

We are here for every Sandra. We are here for every Haleigh, Trenton, and Adji out there who deserve to come home and deserve justice. We keep their faces, their names, and their stories alive until they return. We are doing what small part we can to insure they are never forgotten. Justice is never out of our reach when it restores dignity, faith, and honor to the victims of this seemingly unjust world.

May God bless and keep you, Sandra Cantu.

[twirlygirl]

Hello everyone...this will be my first post here. I have been reading the forum for a couple of days now and I have to say I am happy to see such a place exists. We need more caring advocates in this world. On that note I really need to get some thoughts off my chest. So bare with me if I ramble on...but this whole Sandra Cantu case has my head spinning for so many reasons.

I have a beautiful daughter who's 11 and will turn 12 in July. I can't imagine how Sandra's mother must be feeling. Every time I think of what has happened to this little girl I just want to cry. As a mother we will always feel this need to protect our children and it's stuff like this that makes me want to keep her locked inside forever. Our society has become so screwed up I thought I was completely numb to news report after news report. But this has hit home to me in a big way.

I have read in another thread on here I don't remember if it was in the suspect thread or why we thought Melissa killed her. But I need to say that some of thoughts expressed that perhaps Melissa was sexually molested as a child and maybe that's why she may have done this. When I read this it made my stomach turn...Let me explain why:

This is a very personal story for me but I will try to explain as best as I can and it is only my thoughts and perhaps my thoughts alone.

When I was a child I was sexually molested by my grandfather. It was the most traumatic experience I have ever experienced in my life and it affected me in a big way. Trouble with intimacy, trust, and love. Having to overcome that was a big part of my life. Moving forward I learned to trust and love those people around me that loved me in return. When I first got married loving and trusting my husband was my only obstacle. But fast forward to finding out we were having a child. It was one of my happiest moments but also one of my most scariest moments. When I first learned I was pregnant all I wanted was a boy...that's not to say that these kind of things wouldn't happen to a boy. But in my mind I thought I would fair better in this instance. Don't get me wrong my daughter is the best thing that ever happened to me. I love her with all my heart and I say this without thought. But when I first found out through the ultrasound that I was having a girl instead of a boy I cried like you killed me. I can honestly say that all my nightmares started coming back. Flashbacks of being molested came almost nightly. I believe this began happening because of my fear for her and my constant need to protect her. When I first brought her home thank god I have a loving husband because to be honest I was afraid to touch her let alone change her diaper. I simply couldn't because the moment I would try flashes of my molestation would rear it's ugly head. Thankfully my husband was loving and supportive because he took the role of being mom/dad all at once without hesitation. In my heart I would drive myself crazy thinking why is this happening? Am I wanting to hurt my beautiful daughter in the same way? I would torture myself daily thinking that perhaps this is why I was having these horrible flashbacks. I have to say now looking back I would never past or present hurt her in that way I was hurt and it was God's way of showing me that I could overcome my fear and know in my heart that what happened to me when I was a child I had no control over but as an adult I do have control of my future. I was having my flashbacks not because I wanted to do the same to her but because I was scared the same would happen to her and I am so thankful that I was able to work this out in my mind. I believe in this with my whole heart. It's up to you to break the cycle and if in your heart you believe in this. Then you can learn to be a better person and not let what happened to you over take your life but take from life what you have been dealt with and learn from it. Let it make you stronger as a person and choose to make your life better.

I guess what I am trying to say is simply this: I don't believe just because she was molested it in turn made her do the same. Some people might not be as strong as me but I guess what I mean bottom line the choice is yours. Lay down and die! Blame the world blah blah blah or stand up and make a difference.

I choose to make a difference.

A molested survivor

[HarvestMoon]

Welcome Twirlygirl, what a beautiful name.:gold_star:

[twirlygirl]

Welcome Twirlygirl, what a beautiful name.:gold_star:

Thanks i hope I didn't make you read too long :)

I just had to get this off my chest.

[snapdragon]

I know this is a controversial subject, but I do believe the death penalty to be a real deterrant of crime. I hate to use certain foreign countries as an example, so I won't. I think if you start convicting these murderers and child pornographers with the DP, and carry it out SWIFTLY, you will find that these "offenders" will think twice. I hope MH gets DP. I am completely cried out over this, and when I think about what Sandra went through, I just cry again.

Now I want to rant about my town of Tracy, CA. I moved here 5 yrs ago during the housing boom. The house we have now would've cost us ~900k in Livermore, CA (where we moved from, only 20mi west). I had the misfortune to live in the central valley years before, and thought I had gotten out for good! (sorry if that offended anyone) But we did buy a beautiful home in Tracy. My first impression of Tracy was walking my infant daughter down our beautiful tree lined street to have the BOOM BOOM ghetto music blasting me as cars whizzed by residential areas going 45mph+. I called the PD several times... dispatcher sympathetic, but no action. There seems to be a lack of police presence in this town, as well as other central valley towns. This was evident to me as someone who moved from a town where the cops would pull over ANYONE like this. I once talked to a watch commander here about this "attitude". I told him I traveled to Monterey, CA frequently, and their local police would NEVER stand for some of the crap I see out here. His answer? "We're not Monterey". No duh.

This wouldn't have helped Sandra, given the rare situation of her abduction. But my message is Tracy needs to get tougher on ALL crime, and for God's sake, if the Tracy60 exists, they need to be arrested immediately! The only thing I can hope for is that this case is a wake up call for the city govt. and things will change.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my rant, I am mad as a hornet!

[azwriter]

Thanks i hope I didn't make you read too long :)

I just had to get this off my chest.

Welcome twirlygirl. You've come to the right place for getting things off your chest. Sorry for all you've had to endure. Hugs!
azwriter

[Cubby]

First, my rant. If I wrote what I would like to do to Melissa Huckaby I would be banned for life from WS so I won't. What I will do is say Melissa is the most evil, vile, inhumane person I have read about. To cloth herself as a lamb like she did is simply dispicable. If Melissa is found guilty, she deserves the death penalty. I for one am SICK AND TIRED of women getting as much leniency as they do. A crime is a crime period. Women deserve no extra mercy simply because of their gender and I will pray daily that stops.

I'm more enraged at Melissa than I am Casey Anthony and I didn't think that was possible.

I am struggling with teaching my 6.5 yr old kindergartner about safety. It kills me when he says, mom- I'm just a kid, you are scaring me. And asking questions like will someone hurt me? All I can do right now is answer it is my job to protect you and help you learn how to keep yourself safe when you are outside playing. I'm a cautious parent, but we do need to allow our children some independence. My son is in tae kwando and currently an orange belt. I can't wait until he is a black belt. I'll feel a little safer (and hopefully he won't kick my butt, lol!)

I can't begin to say how very very angry I am at Melissa. I'm reserving my thoughts on her family at this point because we don't have facts, but my gut tells me they knew very well something was wrong with their daughter, granddaughter, niece, sister..... and chose either to ignore it and "pray the Lord would take care of it" (The Lord made medicine and doctors for a reason) or they were simply ignorant and chose to remain ignorant to her very serious issues. In which case, we need more education for those who have family members suffering from various forms of mental illness.

Melissa, when you sleep at night I hope you have nightmares each and every night of what you did to precious innocent Sandra AND the train wreck you have left not only Sandra's family, but YOUR OWN DAUGHTER and your family.

[snapdragon]

Okay, another rant. I am horrified that the Chavez family will have to see that GODFORSAKEN church every flippin' day! My belief is that it is now hallowed ground, and should be torn down as soon as the investigation/trial is over. I'm sure that won't happen... if the Lawless' had ANY moral quality about them, they would sell/abandon that property and allow a memorial to Sandra (such as a park or gardens) to be erected there (but then they'd lose their tax write off...boo hoo). "Celebrating" services there is LUDICROUS and should not be allowed to continue.

Is there anyway a community can petition for such thing to happen? I would guess not, since it is private property. But I would appreciate any legal info on this.. I would be willing to push it locally.

[Logger]

I cringe every time I hear someone (media) refer to MH as a Sunday School Teacher. She is a 28 year old single mother, unemployed and homeless (living with her grandparents for 8 months), since she is not working, she doesn't pay rent. I heard the father of her child does not pay her child support.

I am a Sunday School teacher. At our Church they have a lengthly application process that includes a background check, TB testing and checking with references. We have strict rules never to be alone with a member of our class whether at Chuch or otherside of Church.

Somewhere I read the church had 20 members. Not a very large following.
Sunday school usually lasts about an hour. What does MH do the rest of the week?

[twirlygirl]

Okay, another rant. I am horrified that the Chavez family will have to see that GODFORSAKEN church every flippin' day! My belief is that it is now hallowed ground, and should be torn down as soon as the investigation/trial is over. I'm sure that won't happen... if the Lawless' had ANY moral quality about them, they would sell/abandon that property and allow a memorial to Sandra (such as a park or gardens) to be erected there (but then they'd lose their tax write off...boo hoo). "Celebrating" services there is LUDICROUS and should not be allowed to continue.

Is there anyway a community can petition for such thing to happen? I would guess not, since it is private property. But I would appreciate any legal info on this.. I would be willing to push it locally.

I undoubtedly without question feel the same way! I would never want to have to look at that church ever again.

[keaska]

My 8 year old daughter told me they found Sandra's body. :( I was gathering her clothes for school and she was watching the TODAY show waiting for the weather while eating breakfast. She started yelling "Mommy! Mommy! They found her body..she was in a suitcase in a pond."

I had been away from the computer and the news the day before and it made me catch my breath.

I watched the coverage and cried right there with my own little 8 year old.
Then, she asked today, why that lady killed her and I had to tell her that she molested her. She knows what this means because my niece was molested and my daughter was the first person she opened up to about it. She said I didn't know girls did that...I said they usually don't. It's extremely rare that a woman is that sick that she would do that.

It makes me sick to have to tell her these things... sigh


praying for Sandra's family. I can't even imagine.


I can't imagine what Sandra's mother and family are going through. I just can't even go there. I pray for them.

[RhythmicSun]

We have a pedo here in San Diego who they want to release to the community. Our community, lead mostly by radio host, Rick Roberts, is doing all we can to keep Matthew Hedge away from MY property. The years I've been following this monster, his history is violent acts against children. He's too much of a coward to hurt someone his own age, or someone who can defend him/herself. He's a true monster. Thankfully, a judge ruled that Hedge was ordered placed in the community in a trailer on a site adjacent to Donovan State Prison in Otay Mesa on April 13, 2009. That makes me feel a little bit safer -- but we're not sure how long it's going to last.

Anyway, I feel once a pedo always a pedo. I don't think there's such thing as rehab. Which makes me only imagine that Sandra wasn't the first victim of MH. Pedo's don't normally mess with adults (IMHO).

Best,

Melanie

Your post made me think of something. I am dead set against computer chips being inserted into people (like they do with animals) but in the case of pedophiles it should be mandatory that these people be computer chipped -- and I am convinced there is already a way to record these peoples' conversations at the same time.

[JoeFromLB]

I cringe every time I hear someone (media) refer to MH as a Sunday School Teacher. She is a 28 year old single mother, unemployed and homeless (living with her grandparents for 8 months), since she is not working, she doesn't pay rent. I heard the father of her child does not pay her child support.

I am a Sunday School teacher. At our Church they have a lengthly application process that includes a background check, TB testing and checking with references. We have strict rules never to be alone with a member of our class whether at Chuch or otherside of Church.

Somewhere I read the church had 20 members. Not a very large following.
Sunday school usually lasts about an hour. What does MH do the rest of the week?

And how do you get a functioning Sunday school class when your church only has 20 members total? Doesn't sound right to me.

[snapdragon]

Your post made me think of something. I am dead set against computer chips being inserted into people (like they do with animals) but in the case of pedophiles it should be mandatory that these people be computer chipped -- and I am convinced there is already a way to record these peoples' conversations at the same time.

Ha! We want to put a GPS onto our 5y/o daughter! I know they have the bracelets, and are considering it. She is a very beautiful girl, who is also very outgoing, and that scares us.... sad state of affairs, isn't it????

[snapdragon]

And how do you get a functioning Sunday school class when your church only has 20 members total? Doesn't sound right to me.

And hasn't had regular services since 1997!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TAX SHELTER!

[JoeFromLB]

And hasn't had regular services since 1997!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TAX SHELTER!


1997??? I've heard one report that said 2007, but wow, where did you hear that??
That would be 12 years without any services! If that's the case, that's NO church!

[RhythmicSun]

This church stuff is something I've been wanting to rant about for a while. I smell a huge ugly rat with this church and in my mind's eye it has its teeth bared. I never believed for one second that this was or is a real church. I am sorry if that hurts or offends the family but after looking at a lot of the facts, using logic, intuition and yes, astrology I feel this church was no church at all for a very, very long time. And it infuriates me that this ridiculous structure could have been used for heinous crimes for a very long time on possibly more victims, and that wiring was possibly removed from the roof. I could go on but I won't.

I do very much believe in the death penalty. Don't think I don't.

[JoeFromLB]

This church stuff is something I've been wanting to rant about for a while. I smell a huge ugly rat with this church and in my mind's eye it has its teeth bared. I never believed for one second that this was or is a real church. I am sorry if that hurts or offends the family but after looking at a lot of the facts, using logic intuition and yes, astrology I feel this church was no church at all for a very, very long time. And it infuriates me that this ridiculous structure could have been used for heinous crimes for a very long time on possibly more victims, and that wiring was possibly removed from the roof. I could go on but I won't.

I do very much believe in the death penalty. Don't think I don't.

The church creeps me out big time. Lots of oddities here, IMO.

[snapdragon]

1997??? I've heard one report that said 2007, but wow, where did you hear that??
That would be 12 years without any services! If that's the case, that's NO church!

Joe, You're correct! Sorry, My Bad! I meant to say 2007, guess my brain is in a time warp! It has been a few years since any regular service, and locals have said repeatedly that they rarely see anyone there.

Also, local pastors have said that Pastor Lawless has not participated in any of the gatherings for local pastors. He has been repeatedly invited, but has never responded. They have used the term that he has "isolated" himself from the religious community here in Tracy.

Thanks for your correction to my brain blip!!1

[capoly]

It really makes me want to rant to see yet another case where past abuse (or speculation of past abuse) of the offender is used by some as a way to rationalize the offenders abusive behavior towards a child. It is insulting...a slap in the face...to the 100's of thousands of people who were abused yet did not succumb to that abuse by becoming an abuser.

I grew up in a house of horrors yet never did I think it be RIGHT to hit my child in the head with a bat, or beat them with my fist untill they faded in and out of consciousness, or put them to bed saying "Think about something that makes you happy" as their insides were torn apart. It was WRONG. And no amount of irrational rationalization about my childhood could have made abuse understandable.

Throughout the WS forums alone there can be found many posts made by members in which they refer to their own abusive childhoods. The Internet underscored what TV talk shows exposed...childhood abuse is a far more common occurrence than was ever thought. The majority of abused children DO NOT become sadistic abusers. The majority of persons abused as children struggle for years to learn how to live a life beyond a point of survival in order to achieve a life with love. A life which will include others, not discard them in trash bags or luggage.

Simply put:

All abusers were not abused.
And All abused are not abusers.

[JoeFromLB]

Joe, You're correct! Sorry, My Bad! I meant to say 2007, guess my brain is in a time warp! It has been a few years since any regular service, and locals have said repeatedly that they rarely see anyone there.

Also, local pastors have said that Pastor Lawless has not participated in any of the gatherings for local pastors. He has been repeatedly invited, but has never responded. They have used the term that he has "isolated" himself from the religious community here in Tracy.

Thanks for your correction to my brain blip!!1

No problem!

There's also been some discussion about the particular beliefs of this church.
A link on their website opens to a chart called "Trail of Blood" which attempts to show that the real Baptists go back all the way to 251 AD. This particular belief includes a repudiation of Protestant churches, which originated during the time of the Reformation in the 16th century. What his church thinks about Catholics I would rather not comment on!

http://www.biblepreaching.com/chart.html

So you have a pastor who probably would have little or nothing to do with other denominations outside of his "Missionary Baptist" tradition. Of course, this is merely an assumption on my part.

[TripleA]

I had the most awful feeling this weekend. On Friday I saw an advertisement in the local paper for a Theater Workshop that was going to be held on Saturday. My 14 yo daughter was interested and so I called the contact number for more info. The woman who was organizing the registrants seemed very nice and told me that the workshop was being run by one of our local school district administrators who also went to school for theater arts. Anyway, all sounded great until she told me that it was being held at a local church. My stomach jumped into my throat; it was such a sick feeling. I knew it was just my reaction because of this case and so I worked my way past that initial reaction.

The next morning when I took her to the church and we walked in, I was again sickened when I realized that I misinterpreted the age requirement or 12 and up. I assumed it was only for kids, but it was for anyone 12 yo and up. There were about 6 adults and 8 kids. I really rethought letting my daughter stay, and I almost turned us right back around and out the door. I knew that would devastate my daughter though and so I spent some time talking to the gentleman who was running the workshop and the lady who I had spoke to on the phone to get a feel for the situation. They made me feel a bit better, and my daughter really wanted to stay, so I signed her in and sat on the sidelines for an hour or so.

In the end I did decide to leave her there for a few more hours and go about my errands that I needed to get done. She had an absolutely wonderful time and really wants to go to the second part next Saturday. I will probably let her because I know that she needs to have these experiences. I also know that I have drilled her like crazy lately about all of the "what to do" and "what not to do" situations.

Even now though, I still have a pit in my stomach about it. I know that it is because of Sandra's case that I feel this way. I have always felt a sense of security in God's house, probably because I have always had great experiences personally. I hate that this case has taken that feeling away from me.

[QNA]

As a parent you should always trust your gut instincts over what other people tell you. This is a lot different than living in fear of every shadow you see. If you smother your child too much you deprive her of life experiences necessary for her growth. Too much freedom and you put her at risk. It is up to you to find the happy medium. Just be aware of your surroundings and don't be afraid to talk to people and ask questions. Listen to your inner voice and trust what it tells you.

[passionflower]

This church stuff is something I've been wanting to rant about for a while. I smell a huge ugly rat with this church and in my mind's eye it has its teeth bared. I never believed for one second that this was or is a real church. I am sorry if that hurts or offends the family but after looking at a lot of the facts, using logic, intuition and yes, astrology I feel this church was no church at all for a very, very long time. And it infuriates me that this ridiculous structure could have been used for heinous crimes for a very long time on possibly more victims, and that wiring was possibly removed from the roof. I could go on but I won't.

I do very much believe in the death penalty. Don't think I don't.

I agree with you 100%! This is a building kept by 'who' to do 'what'?
This is NO CHURCH and the members are not there to PRAY!
I feel that MH is AFRAID of someone (or many) and is taking the rap.
I do feel she is involved all the way but that she was NOT ALONE no matter what LE wants us to believe. I thik LE is keeping things close to the vest and will have more later on. MH will squeel later I think.
I to believe in the death penalty!

[oceanblueeyes]

1997??? I've heard one report that said 2007, but wow, where did you hear that??
That would be 12 years without any services! If that's the case, that's NO church!

It may be more like a church just for bible studies now.

Isn't Pastor Lawless 77 years old. Maybe he retired or semi retired but his parishioners (the older members of the church that had been with him for 30 years) did not want him to leave completely.

imo

[passionflower]

TRIPLEA
I can relate to you big time! A choir directer heard my grandson sing in a 6th grade
play........beautiful voice and came to us and wanted him in a 'boys choir' at a huge church in town. My son said 'no thanks, he is to busy with other activities.
Everyone but me was down my sons throat for this. A year later this same
fun loving, religious man in charge of allot in the church ( a regular good church by the way) is charged with countless molestation charges and now is in Western Penn
for the crimes KNOWN.......still looking for more. Also my 2 grandsons were in BOY SCOUTS and their LEADER is in jail NOW.........a WELL KNOWN MARRIED DOCTOR!!!
Thank the good LORD that my kids have said they are okay and never had any encounters with him. We ask our grandkids all the time to come and tell us anything that bothers them!

[Salem]

(((((capoly))))) Hugs capoly. Nice to see you in Sandra's forum.

Salem

[snapdragon]

I am resurrecting the rant/emotional overload page tonight cause I am sooo sad about this whole thing. I am a local, and I can't help thinking about what really did happen to Sandra. I was out of town this weekend... a lovely escape to the ocean. And I opened up the SF Chronicle this morning at our inn to read what the judge had to say about sealing the autopsy evidence due to the horrific nature/ fear of public anger, etc.

Needless to say, my little escape to the sea was over, in my mind, at least. As we walked on the bluffs looking at the ocean, I thought, Sandra will never see this. As we toured gardens with whimsical ornaments and cottontail rabbits hopping about, I thought, that poor child will never have this pure sense of innocent pleasure. My day was ruined. And as we made our way back to Tracy, I wondered when things would ever soften again.

I have a 5yr old daughter. We live on a court in a very nice area.....Both my husband and I were talking about little Sandra, and how if it were our daughter, and the person lived w/ family on our court, how would we feel driving home everyday seeing that. Seeing the murder location down the street.

Absolutely unthinkable.

[JoeFromLB]

I am resurrecting the rant/emotional overload page tonight cause I am sooo sad about this whole thing. I am a local, and I can't help thinking about what really did happen to Sandra. I was out of town this weekend... a lovely escape to the ocean. And I opened up the SF Chronicle this morning at our inn to read what the judge had to say about sealing the autopsy evidence due to the horrific nature/ fear of public anger, etc.

Needless to say, my little escape to the sea was over, in my mind, at least. As we walked on the bluffs looking at the ocean, I thought, Sandra will never see this. As we toured gardens with whimsical ornaments and cottontail rabbits hopping about, I thought, that poor child will never have this pure sense of innocent pleasure. My day was ruined. And as we made our way back to Tracy, I wondered when things would ever soften again.

I have a 5yr old daughter. We live on a court in a very nice area.....Both my husband and I were talking about little Sandra, and how if it were our daughter, and the person lived w/ family on our court, how would we feel driving home everyday seeing that. Seeing the murder location down the street.

Absolutely unthinkable.

How could that family meet for worship on Easter Sunday in the place where the police believe Sandra was brutally murdered days before?

That's just gross.

(btw, I'm wondering if that was their first service in several years. According to many reports, the church was basically non-functioning.)

[Salem]

I have been thinking about Sandra a lot this morning. I really just wanted to come here and share.

I'm sending prayers to Sandra's family - prayers of strength and courage as they continue on this journey. And prayers to Sandra, who is now safe and happy. May she send kisses to her mother.

Salem