Is Huckaby wanting to be 1st pedo woman murderer?

[concentric]

I am wondering if this woman is wanting the notoriety of being the first pedophile woman murderer? Any thoughts? BTW, I think that this case merits more prominent attention here.

[Beyond Belief]

I really think this woman is extremely mentally ill. Whatever her thinking pattern is, I don't think its rational. I feel like she fits in the same fishbowl as those two kooks that kidnapped Eliz Smart. moo

[SeriouslySearching]

No. I don't believe she wanted to be caught so I would have to think she did not set out to become the first female pedo/murderer. (Not sure she would be the first actually...I will have to research it further, but I would find it impossible to believe right now.)

[RhythmicSun]

I agree. I don't think she wanted to be first. Let's not forget she was taking psychotropic drugs. That is NOT an excuse for murder, but could be a strong contributing factor.

[concentric]

OK. Well, thanks for your responses. Still wondering...as I'm sure many of you out there are as well.

Once again, I'm amazed at the level of human depravity evident in these crimes.

[SuziQ]

There are cases of female pedo murderers out there. But, they usually work with a male perp.

[SeriouslySearching]

I agree. I don't think she wanted to be first. Let's not forget she was taking psychotropic drugs. That is NOT an excuse for murder, but could be a strong contributing factor.However, I have noticed a pattern in your posts and many others. They appear to be looking for reasons or "contributing factors" for her to have committed this heinous crime. I think she could simply be an evil and vindictive B*tch who was obsessed with an 8 year old beautiful child.

[RhythmicSun]

I do believe such people exist (i.e., people who are born evil), and I think that is probably true in other cases but I don't think it's true in this case.

[Boyz_Mum]

I am not sure if she is wanting to be recognized as the "original woman pedo" and/or I am not sure if it's the desparation of gaining the ultimate attention? (I don't know if the act itself fulfilled her as per the pedophile behavior OR if she was aiming for attention copying pedophile behavior. Does that make any sense at all?)

Women who kill are a mystery to me. Post partum psychosis is almost understandable (IMO), there was a lady who ran her husband over with a car because of his infidelity (not saying it's a good reason or plan but almost understandable?) I just can't fathom a reason for murdering a neighbor kid? Even if I look at it like a "John Couey" situation, I can't for a minute grasp a woman being this heinous.

[goofeegyrl]

However, I have noticed a pattern in your posts and many others. They appear to be looking for reasons or "contributing factors" for her to have committed this heinous crime. I think she could simply be an evil and vindictive B*tch who was obsessed with an 8 year old beautiful child.

IMO, there are always contributing factors as to why anyone commits these heinous crimes. Be it mental illness, abuse, whatever. The reason I feel it is necessary to understand them is to help people later on down the road. For instance, we know that it is important to attempt to help kids who hurt animals, trying to prevent them from going down the road to start hurting people. Maybe it's the Sociologist (ok, just the Sociology degree) in me that sees this as part of the bigger picture of our society.

People should not be taken off the hook when they commit atrocities against other people, but it is very important for the future to take lessons from the past.

[gibby207]

I DO think she wanted to be caught, hence the overtalking, leaving notes, eating razor blades.... I think she knows she's sick and some other things I'm not willing to post right now, but I think she was willing to be caught.

No, I don't think she wanted notoriety particularly.

[concentric]

Was this woman so bored with her lack lustre life that she decided to take the life of this precious girl?

[gibby207]

I am not sure if she is wanting to be recognized as the "original woman pedo" and/or I am not sure if it's the desparation of gaining the ultimate attention? (I don't know if the act itself fulfilled her as per the pedophile behavior OR if she was aiming for attention copying pedophile behavior. Does that make any sense at all?)

Women who kill are a mystery to me. Post partum psychosis is almost understandable (IMO), there was a lady who ran her husband over with a car because of his infidelity (not saying it's a good reason or plan but almost understandable?) I just can't fathom a reason for murdering a neighbor kid? Even if I look at it like a "John Couey" situation, I can't for a minute grasp a woman being this heinous.

I think in HER mind, if there was a drugging, let's say hypothetically, she DIDN'T mean to kill her... just rape her and MAYBE tape it. (And I say "just" not lightly and in MH thinking KWIM?) In other words, accidental overdose.

[SuziQ]

Was this woman so bored with her lack lustre life that she decided to take the life of this precious girl?

With all her other issues? I doubt boredom would be the reason.

[SuziQ]

I think in HER mind, if there was a drugging, let's say hypothetically, she DIDN'T mean to kill her... just rape her and MAYBE tape it. (And I say "just" not lightly and in MH thinking KWIM?) In other words, accidental overdose.

Most pedophiles who kill children do so because the victim doesn't play along with the plan and threatens to tell. Murdering the victim is merely a self protective act by the perp. They simply don't want to get caught.

[concentric]

With all her other issues? I doubt boredom would be the reason.

OK. But then, what is reason? Please elaborate. Sincerely.

[SeriouslySearching]

IMO, there are always contributing factors as to why anyone commits these heinous crimes. Be it mental illness, abuse, whatever. The reason I feel it is necessary to understand them is to help people later on down the road. For instance, we know that it is important to attempt to help kids who hurt animals, trying to prevent them from going down the road to start hurting people. Maybe it's the Sociologist (ok, just the Sociology degree) in me that sees this as part of the bigger picture of our society.

People should not be taken off the hook when they commit atrocities against other people, but it is very important for the future to take lessons from the past.Oh, I don't disagree! I do feel as you do that everything in such cases as this one should be analyzed to the fullest extent for many years to come to try to unlock some answers.

However, I think some people are sadistic and don't need drugs, mental health issues, or other factors to figure into why they rape and murder children. It could be more simplistic, imo.

[goofeegyrl]

However, I think some people are sadistic and don't need drugs, mental health issues, or other factors to figure into why they rape and murder children. It could be more simplistic, imo.


You may very well be correct on this, but for my own mental health, I guess I just don't want to imagine a world where someone could just wake up and decide to kill/torture someone. :(

[txsvicki]

I don't think Melissa wanted to be caught, and I don't think she's that mentally ill. She wasn't running amok in Target, she was stealing. She's not out eating flies or staring into space in a schizoprenic daze either. She was forming a plot, writing a note (even plotting the misspelling), and trying to get out of this somehow. I think she messed up in her timeframe and the cops (with the help of the reporter) were on to her. The questioning about and getting off scott free when the drugging of the other child happened didn't help. After that, she probably thought she could get away with anything.

[elepher50]

I don't think she ever planned to get caught. No matter which way I look at this, she is evil, just plain evil. I can't even suggest that her brain is mis-firing because she did try to point away from herself - she is just plain, outright evil to the core - there is no other way to describe it. She truly thought she was going to get away with it.

[Salem]

OK. But then, what is reason? Please elaborate. Sincerely.

Hope you don't mind that I'm not SuziQ - but.....

I am reserving any opinions until we know the cause of death, whether or not drugs were used, what the extent of any prior activity might be and whether or not MH was taking pictures. I think all of these things will go a long way toward helping me form an opinion.

At this point, I'm not so sure she didn't want to get caught. For someone who didn't want to get caught, she sure threw out a lot of clues and did a major amount of blabbing. I think there is definitely something wrong with her - that razor swallowing is just crazy.

I'm finding this quite interesting, no disrespect intended. And I agree it is important to explore what might have possibley motivated her for future reference.

Salem

[SuziQ]

OK. But then, what is reason? Please elaborate. Sincerely.

There could be a laundry list of reason's based on having a mental illness. Or she could merely be an evil person. I just don't see boredom as playing into the motive here. IMO, of course.

[SharetheLight]

I think she wanted to get caught.
She talked a lot. And she didn't just talk about anything, she spoke about elements that were central to this crime.
I don't by any means think she was a seasoned perp. And I don't think this was her first offense against a child.
She is twisted and wanted to get caught.
I don't think she wanted to be the first pedo murderer

[Salem]

Respectfully snipped
However, I think some people are sadistic and don't need drugs, mental health issues, or other factors to figure into why they rape and murder children. It could be more simplistic, imo.

So do you think there is just something missing in their physical makeup that leaves them without a conscience? I wonder about this. I have the hardest time with the death penalty (not trying to start a debate here) because I don't think we should allow criminals to make us be the ones to decide if they should die or not. But then I think if they are missing some crucial part of being human, then there is no help for them anyway and there is no reason to keep them alive. Like a broken doll or chair or something that can't be glued back together - just get rid of it.

Okay - sorry to get lost here....:blushing:

Salem

[SuziQ]

I don't think she wanted to get caught. Most murderers don't, in fact, I think Sandra was killed because Melissa didn't want to get caught for being a pedo. I think the premeditation part of the charges is the fact that the abuse was premeditated and it led to Sandra's death.

IMO, taking another life like Melissa did is about as selfish and arrogant as one could get. I also think that a murderer's arrogance is what trips them up. I think Melissa has been getting away with alot of things for years and it never occured to her that this time would be different.

ETA: I think Melissa's arrogance was greater than her intelligence.

[SeriouslySearching]

Respectfully snipped

So do you think there is just something missing in their physical makeup that leaves them without a conscience? I wonder about this. I have the hardest time with the death penalty (not trying to start a debate here) because I don't think we should allow criminals to make us be the ones to decide if they should die or not. But then I think if they are missing some crucial part of being human, then there is no help for them anyway and there is no reason to keep them alive. Like a broken doll or chair or something that can't be glued back together - just get rid of it.

Okay - sorry to get lost here....:blushing:

SalemYes. I do. Something is missing from birth in some people and their nature/nurture is severely affected. Also they do not possess the ability to feel guilt or remorse. They can be literally born without a conscience. Now...Do I think MH is one of those people? No. How is that for complicating things? LOL

[txsvicki]

I think some of these people don't have any empathy for others and want instant gratification no matter what happens. It could range from stealing from Target to killing someone. I'd be willing to bet that the suicide attempt or illness that it brought on was something that was used in the past to get attention, to get out of something, to get all the attention onto something else, or for financial gain such as a disability check or living free with relatives. Her ex husband is probably going to be able to write a book about this if he so chooses to do so. The note to the friend of hers about not being wanted blah blah sounds like the same tactics learned by high school age.

[daisy.faithfull]

SS and ShareTheLight... both of you mentioned that you thought that MH wanted to get caught. Right now it really looks to me like she wanted to get caught for the murder of Sandra. I really am not sure about MH wanting to get caught for the molestation. What do you all think?

I am thinking that we need to know what exactly is the history she has with drugging children. If the incident with Sandra being found drugged is an isolated incident, and has a history of molesting children it may mean that MH placed Sandra in an area that could be linked to her, the mobil home park. I don't know. Any insights or opinions? Thank you! :beats:

[daisy.faithfull]

Right now since I'm leaning towards MH having been the victim of molestation, probably at the hands of a woman perp I'm going to say that she knows she is not the first woman pedo. I don't think that she is even thinking about being the first or receiving any type of notoriety. Not for the molestation for the reasons I listed above, nor for the murder because I think that she is still trying to make sense of how it happened, WHY it happened, and just completely lost in her head :headache:.

[QNA]

No I don't believe notoriety was a motive. I think she's done this before (drugging/molestation/exploitation, etc.) but something went wrong this time and Sandra ended up dead which prompted a hastily, ill contrived disposal and cover up. Still not convinced she was alone as far as motive (drugging/molestation/exploitation) is concerned, although it is possible, probability says otherwise.

[nittany90]

You may very well be correct on this, but for my own mental health, I guess I just don't want to imagine a world where someone could just wake up and decide to kill/torture someone. :(

Truly evil people don't just wake up and decide to kill/torture someone. They go to bed thinking about it, fantasizing about it, planning it...then, when opportunity presents itself (or they create the opportunity) they act on those fantasies and plans. Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind. BTK killer is another. Same flat affect when re-counting the stories -- at least Jeffrey Dahmer pretended to have empathy for his victims.

Scarier thought than them just waking up and deciding to kill/torture someone, if you ask me. To outsiders (and even loved ones) they appear perfectly normal -- if only their true thoughts/desires/drives could be seen.

[bp531]

Lets just pray that the FEMALE POI in the Victoria Stafford case isnt the
2nd. There are some scary similarities in the cases.

[goofeegyrl]

Truly evil people don't just wake up and decide to kill/torture someone. They go to bed thinking about it, fantasizing about it, planning it...then, when opportunity presents itself (or they create the opportunity) they act on those fantasies and plans. Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind. BTK killer is another. Same flat affect when re-counting the stories -- at least Jeffrey Dahmer pretended to have empathy for his victims.

Scarier thought than them just waking up and deciding to kill/torture someone, if you ask me. To outsiders (and even loved ones) they appear perfectly normal -- if only their true thoughts/desires/drives could be seen.

I am not sure if you saw the beginning of this conversation SS and I were debating, we were talking about why people do these things--contributing factors like mental issues or being born that way. It was probably a poor choice of words for me to say wake up and decide to do it, I do know that crimes are premeditated and planned, I meant people being born "evil", which I don't really accept, but again, like I said, it might be for my own peace of mind to think that human nature is not that awful :( Abuse, mental illlness, brain chemical issues, etc. vs. "born that way".

[nittany90]

I am not sure if you saw the beginning of this conversation, we were talking about why people do these things--contributing factors like mental issues or being born that way. It was probably a poor choice of words for me to say wake up and decide to do it, I do know that crimes are premeditated and planned, I meant people being born "evil", which I don't really accept, but again, like I said, it might be for my own peace of mind to think that human nature is not that awful :( Abuse, mental illlness, brain chemical issues, etc. vs. "born that way".

:blowkiss: I know. It's soooo hard for us to think that human nature can be that awful. ITA! I didn't mean any offense by my post (and I apologize if you took it that way) -- there's a lot of dissention on whether people are just born evil or that negative experience in their lives "turn" them that way, or are exacerbated by mental illnesses. I only posted, because, sadly, through life's lessons, I've come to believe that truly evil people do exist. JMO. I wish I didn't feel that way. I wish I could assign a mental disorder to everyone who abuses or kills. At least, it would make me feel better.

[goofeegyrl]

:blowkiss: I know. It's soooo hard for us to think that human nature can be that awful. ITA! I didn't mean any offense by my post (and I apologize if you took it that way) -- there's a lot of dissention on whether people are just born evil or that negative experience in their lives "turn" them that way, or are exacerbated by mental illnesses. I only posted, because, sadly, through life's lessons, I've come to believe that truly evil people do exist. JMO. I wish I didn't feel that way. I wish I could assign a mental disorder to everyone who abuses or kills. At least, it would make me feel better.

Thanks, I did not take offense, I just thought I was not clear before, but I guess I was! ;)

[RhythmicSun]

I feel the need to clarify my statement last night that some people are born evil.

Obviously, feelings and beliefs of this nature can be very subjective and often tied into personal theology. I think very few people are "born evil" but it has happened and does happen IMO. I'd really rather not get any more into my own personal views and theology about it because that is OT here. But to reiterate, I do not think Melissa Huckaby was born evil. I believe she is a product of "nurture" rather than "nature". That is not to say her family of origin is necessarily responsible for her current state.

[lngrid]

This story shows how it important to be very careful and not let ourselves get carried away in anger over what happened to sweet, beautiful little Sandra Cantu. A second, innocent woman named Melissa Huckaby lives near Tracy, CA. She's also 28 years old, a single mother of a 5 year old and is a Sunday school teacher. Apparently she's been getting death threats and her whole family is traumatised:

California Sunday School Teacher Mistaken for Accused Child Killer
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Associated Press (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516628,00.html)
(carried on foxnews.com)

Please pardon me if you have come across this message posted on other threads, but it's so important to get the word out even to future visitors and casual visitors who may read only this thread.

[concentric]

This story shows how it important to be very careful and not let ourselves get carried away in anger over what happened to sweet, beautiful little Sandra Cantu. A second, innocent woman named Melissa Huckaby lives near Tracy, CA. She's also 28 years old, a single mother of a 5 year old and is a Sunday school teacher. Apparently she's been getting death threats and her whole family is traumatised:

California Sunday School Teacher Mistaken for Accused Child Killer
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Associated Press (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516628,00.html)
(carried on foxnews.com)

Please pardon me if you have come across this message posted on other threads, but it's so important to get the word out even to future visitors and casual visitors who may read only this thread.

OMG. This is just what I was thinking about in the rant thread. I was going to end with, every time a person in a teaching capacity (such as the Huckaby accused of the crime) commits a crime, it puts a black spot on any other teacher. How much more so, the woman in the article above. I feel so sad for her and her family.

[oceanblueeyes]

I am wondering if this woman is wanting the notoriety of being the first pedophile woman murderer? Any thoughts? BTW, I think that this case merits more prominent attention here.

Maybe she is just the first caught.

I was thinking about other unsolved cases where they found the child's body and molestation had occurred but no semen left behind if it may have been done by a female predator and LE never considered that avenue in their investigation.

Somehow I just don't feel she is the first.

[Sweetie_PI]

I am wondering if this woman is wanting the notoriety of being the first pedophile woman murderer? Any thoughts? BTW, I think that this case merits more prominent attention here.

You raise an important issue. There is no question that this female is NOT the first pedo murderer. By a long shot. Throughout history. Lots of case history to refer to. I can refer to a Dr., a woman survivor/psychologist's well received and very recent book on the exact same matter. But there's a lot of expertise here as well, so I figure those who need to know know this. Regarding the term I raised last week, "Abrahimic sacrifice"... this is a sicko terrible phenomenon in some inner sanctums of some cultified churches - to excuse heinous behavior.

What is important, and one SuzyQ/Seriously... raise below, is the context of such heinous crimes, the female against female crime. When a woman rapes and kills a child not her own, you BETCHA there's "history" there. Didn't another Baptist pastor in the town say exactly that of this LAWLWSS pastor tribe?

Most past such cases are GENERATIONAL, with AUTHORITY FIGURES (80% include female) who pass on the offending. Case history of MPD (in common street parlance, the nuttiest of the nuts) always involves sexual abuse as a child, and no, not all molested children offend as adults, just as all adult offenders were not all molested as children... but almost all female molestors were.

I would bet the farm on generational abuse in the LAWLESS household.

I would also bet she's going to come up as MPD. MPD, psychopathic drugs, whatever, does not not excuse her unspeakably deviant behavior, but people should at least be asking good questions as to why she did this, as this is a very serious overlooked issue. And BTW, let's not all be so shocked that such heinousness is apparent in ALL human genetic expression. Just pick up any newspaper or book on the matter, and IMO religious nutcases do seem to go the extra mile to please their personal devils. When has it ever NOT been like this? Before we skin her alive, that is. As she well deserves. In any case, I bet she's probably more capable of doing just that to herself, I figure she was taught early on in such black arts.

As for poor Sandra, I figure she may have had some idea of why a five year old girl looked to her for friendship.

In some way I think she took "the hit" for the 5 y.o. who's turn it would have been some day soon.

I choose to think that Sandra knew something was not right, and may have been going to tell. I choose to think that Melissa was no stranger to her grandparents in that park, and I choose to think that others in that small small community, Wohler included, was in the know. Did anyone else wonder if unstable Melissa was JEALOUS of Sandra?

As for the grandmother and the grandfather, I shall never get over his smarmy smile when asked if he was a suspect. Someone should truth serum those two.

No pedo actor acts alone. To convince oneself of that is to doom us all to repeats. If you're gonna rout out the Melissa Huckaby's do it good and do it right, get the entire plagued nest.

PS I wonder if Connie made her wash her stomach out with those razorblades... 50-50 in my book she did it herself, was made to do it...

[concentric]

Maybe she is just the first caught.

I was thinking about other unsolved cases where they found the child's body and molestation had occurred but no semen left behind if it may have been done by a female predator and LE never considered that avenue in their investigation.

Somehow I just don't feel she is the first.

From the literature I've read:

women who were sexually abused as children most likely turn that pain inward on themselves--self-destruction, depression...

men could turn it on themselves, but then ACT it out, by becoming pedophiles themselves.

[oceanblueeyes]

SS and ShareTheLight... both of you mentioned that you thought that MH wanted to get caught. Right now it really looks to me like she wanted to get caught for the murder of Sandra. I really am not sure about MH wanting to get caught for the molestation. What do you all think?

I am thinking that we need to know what exactly is the history she has with drugging children. If the incident with Sandra being found drugged is an isolated incident, and has a history of molesting children it may mean that MH placed Sandra in an area that could be linked to her, the mobil home park. I don't know. Any insights or opinions? Thank you! :beats:

I am not sure of what Huckaby actually wanted to happen. As of now I don't find her words very credible based upon her inconsistent statements, which have been many.

I do find her fascinating somehow. She seems to manipulate how things come out and rearranges what happened.

I even noticed in her talks with the media she blamed LE for not finding Sandra sooner as if to totally dismiss that SHE :mad: was the one that actually murdered Sandra and threw her in the pond in the first place.

I cant remember the psyche doctor's name that was on one of the shows the other night but imo she had MH pegged right. She was on before it came out that MH was saying it was an accident. The doctor said that Melissa would begin to rearrange the story to put herself in a better light. As if she really wasn't to blame for this tragic results. She said that is what psychopaths do.

I believe she has had these perversions for a very long time. She may have only molested children in the past but the urge made her want more and more.

I will not dump in that she was abused as a child since there is absolutely no evidence of that and frankly even if so, it will never make this ok or understandable to me. Millions of boys and girls have suffered from sexual abuse and they don't go on to be a pedophile, murderer or both.

I do hope though that this case does expose that female predators are out there looking for vulnerable little children just like male pedophiles are.

I think many of them don't get caught because we tend to see women as the safer gender when that may not actually be true. It is a perfect cover for them and the female predator uses that to their advantage.

imo

[concentric]

Wow. Some very insightful posts here. I started thinking if I knew of a case where a female sexually abused another female without the provocation or coercion by a male.

You know the book/movie about Sybil, the woman with multiple personalities, right?

Do you think that the mother in that case, was not only sadistic but a female pedophile?

[Columbo]

I think she wanted to get caught.
She talked a lot. And she didn't just talk about anything, she spoke about elements that were central to this crime.
I don't by any means think she was a seasoned perp. And I don't think this was her first offense against a child.
She is twisted and wanted to get caught.
I don't think she wanted to be the first pedo murderer

I'm not a psychologist, but I think she wanted to get caught, too, she just didn't realize it. She didn't start out wanting to get caught--she'd been in trouble before.
And when she committed the crime, I wonder if she was even thinking about getting caught. She was engaged in the moment, and driven by whatever drove her to rape and kill poor Sandra. The rage, dementia, whatever, were in charge.

Once it was done, she must have realized she needed to hide the body, so something inside her head moved her to do that.

Afterwards, all her behavior that was a supposed attempt at covering up, ended up being a trail that led straight back to her. Blabbing, notes, etc. She couldn't have been more obvious! A person who didn't feel guilty and didn't want to get caught would never have said a word about the suitcase, or anything else. Maybe her lifetime of religious indoctrination surfaced, and guilt made her turn herself in, which in effect is what she did.
Then again....she's mentally ill...so who knows. I'm only guessing. But I don't think her goal was to be the first pedo murderer. She wasn't that organized.

[Salem]

I agree - some very insightful and thought provoking posts in this thread!

As for Sybil's mom - yes, she could have been a pedofile, but I think maybe she found enough at home to keep her from going out in the world (at least I hope so).

Salem

[RhythmicSun]

I'm not a psychologist, but I think she wanted to get caught, too, she just didn't realize it. She didn't start out wanting to get caught--she'd been in trouble before.
And when she committed the crime, I wonder if she was even thinking about getting caught. She was engaged in the moment, and driven by whatever drove her to rape and kill poor Sandra. The rage, dementia, whatever, were in charge.

<respectfully snipped for relevancy>

IMO this was a young woman who felt trapped by her childhood (the note to the friend which I believe was NOT a tactic, but a cry for help - at a time when she actually could have been helped), a young woman who felt backed into a corner with no way out, a young woman with a past history of physical, mental and sexual abuse, a young woman with a history of drugs, theft and other crimes. The mental illness is there, and IMO it is nurture rather than nature (meaning her issues were caused by many contributing factors).

Therefore, she wanted to be caught. And I'll bet she's hoping the WHOLE truth will come out. About the Tracy 60, about her own abuse, and about any other direct knowledge she has. (None of the above was written to excuse her actions.)

[JoeFromLB]

I cant remember the psyche doctor's name that was on one of the shows the other night but imo she had MH pegged right. She was on before it came out that MH was saying it was an accident. The doctor said that Melissa would begin to rearrange the story to put herself in a better light. As if she really wasn't to blame for this tragic results. She said that is what psychopaths do.


Remember when the reporter confronted her on the criminal complaint for petty theft, and Melissa told her, "That's not me", even though the address and phone number on the court record were hers?

Deliberate denial of reality.

[RhythmicSun]

Those are valid points and I am not a psychologist but I think it is possible to have both going on - wanting to get caught while at the same time denying the reality.

[concentric]

I agree - some very insightful and thought provoking posts in this thread!

As for Sybil's mom - yes, she could have been a pedofile, but I think maybe she found enough at home to keep her from going out in the world (at least I hope so).

Salem


I think so too. Those scenes where the mother tied Sybil to a table and forced her to have an enema seem like sexual abuse to me.

[tiredofthis]

However, I have noticed a pattern in your posts and many others. They appear to be looking for reasons or "contributing factors" for her to have committed this heinous crime. I think she could simply be an evil and vindictive B*tch who was obsessed with an 8 year old beautiful child.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Hard to believe, but more than likely true.

[zadari]

i think she did it cuz she is sick and perverted and figured everyone would be looking for a man .. she could be bisexual thus the interest in the baby girl ..i think pedos go for kids because they are innocent and they are sick and like to take away that innocence it empowers them somehow

[oceanblueeyes]

<respectfully snipped for relevancy>

IMO this was a young woman who felt trapped by her childhood (the note to the friend which I believe was NOT a tactic, but a cry for help - at a time when she actually could have been helped), a young woman who felt backed into a corner with no way out, a young woman with a past history of physical, mental and sexual abuse, a young woman with a history of drugs, theft and other crimes. The mental illness is there, and IMO it is nurture rather than nature (meaning her issues were caused by many contributing factors).

Therefore, she wanted to be caught. And I'll bet she's hoping the WHOLE truth will come out. About the Tracy 60, about her own abuse, and about any other direct knowledge she has. (None of the above was written to excuse her actions.)

I am not convinced that she wanted to be caught. I do think it was very important to her to become a part of the case. She seemed to want to present herself to the media as the one that knew or had seen things that could solve the case. That all the crucial tips just happened to land in her lap. The story about her luggage being stolen, the story about the supposed note she just happened to find.

I don't think she wants the truth to come out. She looked so fearful to me knowing that the ugly sordid truth about what she did to Sandra is going to float to the top for everyone to know her deep dark secret. She knows what she did to Sandra is vile and disgusting.

I think they will go with a insanity defense. That is no shocker...what other defense do they have to try and mitigate this depraved and reprehensible crime?

However she has already been deemed competent by two psychiatrists recently concerning her other criminal case. I do not believe that a jury will believe she was insane at the time. She certainly knew what she did was wrong. She covered up the crime afterward too.

imoo

[concentric]

Again, if the allegations are true about Huckaby, I think she has a dualistic nature. Part of her is repulsed and disgusted, and part of her is an attention-seeking deviant.

[twinkiesmom]

PS I wonder if Connie made her wash her stomach out with those razorblades... 50-50 in my book she did it herself, was made to do it...

I think if this were a well-organized cult, Melissa would not have been allowed to remain alive to make a confession or be tried in court. Her suicide attempt would have been successful and likely would have had help.

The razor blades seem more like a cry for help from a desperate individual rather than a group making her disappear.

Before we convict the Lawless family, we should make sure there was not a monetary motive for Melissa's crimes. From the media accounts, she has not had a steady job since 2004, and $600/mo. is not enough income to support 2 people in CA...not sure if she was getting child support, but the money thing really needs to be cleared up before we start diagnosing generational abuse.

If Melissa was a member of the Tracy 60, she could have started out believing no one was getting hurt (unconscious child victim), and it escalated from there. We do not know the motivation for these crimes...could have been monetary rather than sexual.

[JoeFromLB]

I think if this were a well-organized cult, Melissa would not have been allowed to remain alive to make a confession or be tried in court. Her suicide attempt would have been successful and likely would have had help.

The razor blades seem more like a cry for help from a desperate individual rather than a group making her disappear.

Before we convict the Lawless family, we should make sure there was not a monetary motive for Melissa's crimes. From the media accounts, she has not had a steady job since 2004, and $600/mo. is not enough income to support 2 people in CA...not sure if she was getting child support, but the money thing really needs to be cleared up before we start diagnosing generational abuse.

If Melissa was a member of the Tracy 60, she could have started out believing no one was getting hurt (unconscious child victim), and it escalated from there. We do not know the motivation for these crimes...could have been monetary rather than sexual.

From all accounts, she's been struggling financially for years. One article I read had details of her financial distress back in 2004 while living in Orange County. Large medical bills, a job that paid very little, $100 in savings, and an old car. That was basically all she had to her name.

She's been in bad shape financially for the past several years at least.

[concentric]

From all accounts, she's been struggling financially for years. One article I read had details of her financial distress back in 2004 while living in Orange County. Large medical bills, a job that paid very little, $100 in savings, and an old car. That was basically all she had to her name.

She's been in bad shape financially for the past several years at least.

Thanks for the the info Joe, and it is very relevant. Many people suffer financial hardships, but they don't do something heinous to try to resolve that incapacity.

[goofeegyrl]

(respectfully snipped)

If Melissa was a member of the Tracy 60, she could have started out believing no one was getting hurt (unconscious child victim), and it escalated from there. We do not know the motivation for these crimes...could have been monetary rather than sexual.

I would have posted this on the Tracy 60 thread, but it's not very active. I was under the impression that there were 60 people independently identified as trading/trafficking child porn. This is not a group of 60 people that are in a so called "ring", right?

[SeriouslySearching]

Well...Sweetie PI...I could not disagree more with some of the things in your post especially the comment about Connie! Wow. I don't even know where to start...

[SeriouslySearching]

I would have posted this on the Tracy 60 thread, but it's not very active. I was under the impression that there were 60 people independently identified as trading/trafficking child porn. This is not a group of 60 people that are in a so called "ring", right?That is my understanding. They are all independent and not in a ring trading among themselves.

[goofeegyrl]

That is my understanding. They are all independent and not in a ring trading among themselves.

Thanks. I see so many posts of people trying to relate this, and I think they are just jumping the gun (imo) on trying to connect this. We all know that unfortunately, every city as people looking at child porn.

[joga]

i'm wondering if maybe once she talked to the police and felt comfortable that they were not onto her (which they were probably purposely doing), she then started blabbing to the media to try and take the focus off of her immediate family members? i don't think she wanted to get caught...

[joga]

Again, if the allegations are true about Huckaby, I think she has a dualistic nature. Part of her is repulsed and disgusted, and part of her is an attention-seeking deviant.

you just sussed out my thoughts for me, that's exactly how i feel about MH. as of now anyway!

[southerngirl]

From the literature I've read:

women who were sexually abused as children most likely turn that pain inward on themselves--self-destruction, depression...

men could turn it on themselves, but then ACT it out, by becoming pedophiles themselves.


Women often do turn the pain from childhood sexual abuse inward, but as a psychiatric nurse I also see a number of female perps. Our local behavioral health hospital has a unit for adolescents with sexual acting out issues. The female unit is composed of girls who are either promiscious or who have sexually abused someone. Their victims are often a sibling, neighbor, etc. It is more common than we think. Almost all of the girls on the unit are victims of sexual abuse, of course. It is almost a given. I would be quite shocked if MH has NOT been sexually abused.

[southerngirl]

Also, I strongly suspect that MH has a borderline personality disorder, and possibly post-traumatic stress disorder. The swallowing of razor blades sounds very much like BPD. Most females with BPD have a history of sexual abuse.

[twinkiesmom]

Thanks. I see so many posts of people trying to relate this, and I think they are just jumping the gun (imo) on trying to connect this. We all know that unfortunately, every city as people looking at child porn.

What I meant was if she was producing material for the Tracy 60...Not necessarily that it was a ring...just making the point that there was a huge local market for this stuff. Her chance of bumping into someone in the market for this stuff was much greater than average for a small town based on these numbers.

I'm making an argument analagous to the one in the CoralRose case...what are the chances of father convicted of child porn and her ending up dead at the hands of sex predator/friend of father...Father would like you to believe he had no involvement, but clearly his perversion ended up costing her her life (either directly or indirectly).

[twinkiesmom]

If Melissa was molested, it might have been an acquaintance rather than a family member. In my experience (with one exception) pastor's kids were among the least supervised ones in the church. Dad is involved talking with congregants, and Mom is often an unpaid full-time employee of the church with Sunday as the busiest day. The families tend to be very trusting of members of their congregation and rely on free babysitting from them. Melissa may have been targeted just as Sandra was now....anything's possible at this point.

[SeriouslySearching]

On JVM just now: Reporter Bob Moffitt of KFBK said that the claim of possible child porn was investigated and LE found no evidence.

[goofeegyrl]

What I meant was if she was producing material for the Tracy 60...Not necessarily that it was a ring...just making the point that there was a huge local market for this stuff. Her chance of bumping into someone in the market for this stuff was much greater than average for a small town based on these numbers.


IMO, 60 out of almost 80K is much at all, unfortunately. As the internet grows, so does this behavior. :(

[daisy.faithfull]

i think she did it cuz she is sick and perverted and figured everyone would be looking for a man .. she could be bisexual thus the interest in the baby girl ..i think pedos go for kids because they are innocent and they are sick and like to take away that innocence it empowers them somehow

I've been so overwhelmed with what MH did to Sandra I hadn't even thought about it been homosexual, and that could imply that MH is bisexual. I say "could" because I don't know if I can look at pedophilia as related to normal sexual categories. However, your comment did make me recall that bi-sexuality is a common trait of psychopaths. With that statement comes the question can psychopathic behavior really be included in normal human sexuality?

There was a discussion about this in one of the Casey Anthony threads regarding the hows and whys of labeling normal human sexuality vs. the sexuality of a psychopath. I don't think that we need to get into that here.

I just wanted to note that engaging in sexual relations with both men and woman is a trait commonly attributed to psychopaths.

[Laece]

i wouldn't say she wanted to 'get caught'.

i would say something more along the lines of 'she wanted to see how much she could get away with and probably never really thought getting caught would happen to her'.

think of the feeling shoplifters get when they cross the line, but the buzzer doesn't go off and they're out the door. the step over the threshold to the outside is described as electrifying and literally breath-taking. they don't care about the 'prize' so much, it's just the trophy in the end.

multiply that times murder and i think that's where MH's mind was after the fact.

[twinkiesmom]

On JVM just now: Reporter Bob Moffitt of KFBK said that the claim of possible child porn was investigated and LE found no evidence.

I believe they haven't found any evidence, but I doubt enough time has passed for a forensic examination of MH's computer(s). In past cases, that has taken months to come back.

[SharetheLight]

SS and ShareTheLight... both of you mentioned that you thought that MH wanted to get caught. Right now it really looks to me like she wanted to get caught for the murder of Sandra. I really am not sure about MH wanting to get caught for the molestation. What do you all think?

I am thinking that we need to know what exactly is the history she has with drugging children. If the incident with Sandra being found drugged is an isolated incident, and has a history of molesting children it may mean that MH placed Sandra in an area that could be linked to her, the mobil home park. I don't know. Any insights or opinions? Thank you! :beats:

I tend to agree that she wanted to get caught for the murder only, not the molestation. Which leads me to believe she has a history of molesting children, but this is her first murder.

If she had committed other murders, I think she would have been caught. It appears she was very calculating with her molestation, not so much with the murder.

Her disposal of Sandra appears hasty and not well thought. This leads me to believe that she didn't consider the possibility that Sandra may die. (don't get me wrong i do not think it was an accident. i think the "normal" person could conclude whatever events took place could lead to death, but I am not sure MH did. I am also not saying she is incompetent. More likely just cocky)

I think she wanted the molestation to remain a secret. It is my opinion that she has kept this secret for a long time, and is now her constant companion.