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Soulscape
04-18-2009, 07:26 PM
On Wednesday, April 8, 2009, Tori Stafford, 8 years old, was captured on surveillance video walking off with an unknown female approximately 19-25 years of age. The disappearance occurred near Tori's school at 3:32 pm.


The LAST SEEN chart for this event is highly complicated. There is an intercepted 4/10 parental axis. The 1st House person has a secret agenda because the same sign is on both the 12th & 1st Houses. The benefic Fixed Star REGULUS associated with victory and success conjuncts ASCENDANT.



http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq5/Soulscape12/Victoria%20Stafford/ToriStaffordLASTSEEN.gif




Lord 1 the SUN is posited in Aries, the sign of its exaltation, at its most exalted degree (19 Aries). This cannot symbolize Tori, because it does not describe the circumstances: a young girl walking off into the sunset with an unknown person. Therefore, the ASCENDANT must symbolize the perp.



Whether we give Tori to House 7 or House 5 matters not because both Capricorn (House 5) and Aquarius (House 7) are ruled by SATURN. If I choose House 7, I see NEPTUNE of disappearance on the dark side of the 7th House cusp. If I choose House 5, I see PLUTO of death and destruction just inside the 5th House cusp. What a choice, but I will go with House 7 and its Lord SATURN because the same sign (Aquarius) is on both the Turned 1st and Turned 12th, indicating the child went willingly, albeit unwisely (12th House influence: acts against best self-interest), with this person. In the LAST SEEN, SATURN is Retrograde (poor condition) and in the house of the perp. Notice CERES of abduction is also there.


VENUS, natural significator of a young female child is posited in the 8th House of Death in the Event chart, and the Event Chart Arabic Part of Death at 11:05 Aquarius is the midpoint of Event Chart MARS/PLUTO. These are testimonies for death.


I next look to a tri-wheel showing Tori's natal (cast for Sunrise at the location of disappearance) as Inner, her secondary progressions (SP) as Middle, and the LAST SEEN chart as Outer:






http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq5/Soulscape12/Victoria%20Stafford/Tri-WheelVictoriaStaffordNatal-Seco.gif





The Last Seen chart (outer ring) has several 24 degree placements, which is the same degree as Tori's natal and Secondary Progressed NODES. Tori's SP MARS at 24 Cancer is conjunct her natal NORTH NODE with Event chart BLACK MOON LILITH at 24 Capricorn exact opposite SP MARS and exact conjunct Tori's natal & SP SOUTH NODE. Additionally, Event chart CHIRON, URANUS, and ADMETOS are in the same 24th degree, giving disturbing information.

Tori's post natal Lunar Eclipse (total) one day after birth was posited at 24 Capricorn. The 1/26/09 Solar Eclipse at 6 Aquarius conjoins Event chart NORTH NODE and conjuncts Tori's natal & SP NEPTUNE. Tori's prenatal Solar Eclipse 00 Leo conjoins her SP SUN 01 Leo. The 2/9/09 Lunar Eclipse at 20 Leo squares Tori's natal and SP ADMETOS 20 Taurus, squares the Event chart MC 21 Taurus and opposes Tori's natal & SP URANUS 19 Aquarius. These are all death markers.

Event chart MOON 09 Libra squares natal (sunrise) MOON 10 Capricorn. Event chart MOON 09 Libra is posited in Event chart 2nd House Immediate Future exactly quindecile Event chart URANUS at 00 degrees/ 00 minutes. A degree of violence 17 Libra is on the 2nd House Immediate Future cusp.

MOON is dispositor of Tori's natal Cancer SUN thus highly important. Event chart MOON 09 Libra is in the Fall of Event chart SUN 19 Aries.


All in all, the astrological testimony ascertained from these charts is not encouraging.


Sadly,
Soulscape

Tuba
04-18-2009, 08:28 PM
Placidus gives the same H. 1 and 12, H. 6 and 7 shared Signs, Leo & Aquarius but the intercept falls in H. 5 and 11. A feature I see and fear is Victoria's Venus at solstice point with her own Saturn and the fact that transiting Venus was sextile that same Weeping Sisters Saturn. Saturn-Venus contacts mean she was being used. This can be for someone's perverse satisfaction or to make money. Since the Sun on April 8 was square her Mars, exact, and Uranus was sextile to her node, opportunity beckoned. The node can represent a ring of people and since the present node is on her Neptune, this ring could have taped or filmed her. But is it possible that a classmate is already subjugated by some evil influence who thereby learned of Victoria? After all, she was taken from school and the south node of the Moon is in Leo (children, schools). Of course, Ceres may be a childless woman who seizes someone else's little girl to be her own. One thing I intend to sit and contemplate: the abductor walked the little girl very briskly & purposefully. It was a certain gait, not fearful with twists and skips, just too fast to go far. Was there a waiting car or an open door to a building then?

Lexiintoronto
04-18-2009, 09:03 PM
Placidus gives the same H. 1 and 12, H. 6 and 7 shared Signs, Leo & Aquarius but the intercept falls in H. 5 and 11. A feature I see and fear is Victoria's Venus at solstice point with her own Saturn and the fact that transiting Venus was sextile that same Weeping Sisters Saturn. Saturn-Venus contacts mean she was being used. This can be for someone's perverse satisfaction or to make money. Since the Sun on April 8 was square her Mars, exact, and Uranus was sextile to her node, opportunity beckoned. The node can represent a ring of people and since the present node is on her Neptune, this ring could have taped or filmed her. But is it possible that a classmate is already subjugated by some evil influence who thereby learned of Victoria? After all, she was taken from school and the south node of the Moon is in Leo (children, schools). Of course, Ceres may be a childless woman who seizes someone else's little girl to be her own. One thing I intend to sit and contemplate: the abductor walked the little girl very briskly & purposefully. It was a certain gait, not fearful with twists and skips, just too fast to go far. Was there a waiting car or an open door to a building then? (I bolded the last few sentences). Excellent observation about the gait of the unknown woman. Towards the end of the clip, Tori hesitates so that there is space between herself and the woman and I also wondered if what gave her pause was an awaiting vehicle, or if they were about to cross a street that would lead her in the wrong direction away from her house.

Thank you for looking into Tori's disappearance, I appreciate it and am trying to follow what you are writing.

Lexiintoronto
04-18-2009, 09:07 PM
Soulscape, thank you for your work on Tori's chart. I'm trying to glean as much information as I can from it (I don't really understand forensic astrology but I respect your work). God help Tori.

dianebs
04-18-2009, 09:11 PM
I have some questions.
1. From the charts, are you able to see if there are other perps involved?
2. From the charts, are you able to determine where Victoria was taken or is now?
3. From the charts, if she knew the person, as in the person is known to her family?

Thank you so very much!

FifthEssence
04-18-2009, 09:53 PM
The following text has been copied from the Request thread for reference purposes.

**********Dianebs wrote**********

Missing 8 Year Old Child in Canada.

VICTORIA (Tori) STAFFORD
Date of Birth: July 15, 2000
Woodstock, Ontario Canada
Date Went Missing: April 8, 2009
Time Went Missing: 3:30 pm
Place Last Seen:
Leaving Oliver Stephens Public School, 164 Fyfe Avenue, Woodstock Ontario N4S 3S6 also stated last seen Frances Street, Woodstock on Facebook Group.
(willingly following a woman) She is described as a white female, 19-25 years old, approximately 5'1" to 5'2" tall and 120 to 125 lbs. with staight long black hair worn in a pony tail. The unidentified person of interest is described as wearing a white coat and dark pants.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Wo...64+Fyfe+Avenue

Video of Girl following Woman
http://victoria-stafford.love.com/

The police are not giving very much information on what they have and won't even say it is an abduction. She was reported missing by her mother.


Father's Name: Rodney Stafford (do not know any dates of birth)
Mother's Name: Tara McDonald
Father and Mother are divorced or separated.
Grandmother's Name: Doreen Graichen
Aunt of Victoria: Randi Millen
Uncle of Victoria: Rob Stafford

Articles:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...tories&s_name=

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/nat...tml?id=1485992

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/...4826&refresh=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deIiJLaZ9Jk

Location Last Seen: The surveillance video is taken at College Avenue Secondary School in which she is seen walking with an unidentified woman.
700 College Ave, Woodstock, Ontario. In an article at the below link, it states the video was from a High School close to her school. This is the closest Highschool.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Wood...:::::f:EN:M:/e

Reported Missing in 911 Call: April 8th, 2009 at approximately 6 pm by her father
The reasoning behind the father not calling earlier:
Victoria's father, Rodney Stafford states, "I was wary - maybe Victoria had just gone to one of her friend's - till the next morning when all the kids returned to school and nobody had heard from her. That's when I started to get really queasy and feared the worst."

Police Report Time: Not exact, but they state they started searching for Victoria within an hour of the 911 call. They would have taken the report prior to search.

Brother: Daryn: 10 years old

All of the above information is found at the following website.
http://www.helpfindmychild.net/victoria-stafford
The family had recently moved from Fyfe Ave. to Frances St., and friends from both neighbourhoods spared no effort looking for Tori.

The link below is a news article in which it states where exactly on the street she was last scene from the surveillance camera.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/Art...aspx?e=1518588

The video, taken by a College Avenue Secondary School video camera, shows Stafford walking northbound along Fyfe Avenue near the intersection with Walter Street at 3:32 pm Wednesday, around the same time the Grade 3 pupil left Oliver Stephens Public School.

Below is a link of a google map showing the street where she was last missing. Also shows the street where the Victoria lives. I don't know if this is of any help.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...9&ie=UTF8&z=16


Thank you so very much for considering doing a forensic astrology on this case.
Diane


**********Butterfly1978 wrote**********

Also another website reports this...
Maitland said police have put together a timeline of the last day Tori was seen.
The girl's teachers said Tori attended school without any problems the day she disappeared.
"We don't have any information after that, but she never did make it home," Maitland added.
Around 6 p.m. that night, Tori's parents reported her missing and police immediately began to investigate.
Police started a door-to-door search late Wednesday. They began a ground search at first light Thursday with about 40 officers and canine units.

I also have been told that the mother was the one that called 9-11. I will continue to look for confirmation, but I beleive that the April 8 2009 at 6pm is acurate for the 9:11 call, we also know that the time stamped video was April 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm.

Yes Soulscape that is what I have read as well, they began searching about an hour and a half after the 9-11 call, I will try and find the link to the article. I have a friend who lives close to the area and is willing to go search any area that we can give her. Thats the reason for me being so involved and having already run these charts, but because I am not near the experts you guys are I am afraid to give her the wrong information. , I have determined a NNE direction approximately 47 miles, is it possable for you either to confirm this or not.


**********Scanner wrote**********
Butterfly: I too am interested in assisting in any searches provided I have some direction. I work during the week, but am available on the weekends. I will continue to check the posts for any updates.

nursebeeme
04-18-2009, 10:06 PM
http://www.canada.com/news/Hope+stays+high+search+missing+girl+intensifies/1510864/story.html
video interview with mother. I am not going to ask where the emotion is (oops did I just ask that?).. Not casting doubt in any direction... seriously.... but coming on the heels of little Sandra's case this mother is a complete oposite emotionaly and it gives me some pause...

butterfly1978
04-18-2009, 10:49 PM
OMG! Thank you so very much for giving Tori her own thread.

I have been looking at her charts for about a week now is okay to post my findings? Or at least a briefing on what I have seen from the charts?

nursebeeme
04-18-2009, 11:05 PM
Astros, are you seeing anything related to the new searches that she will be found? tia

FifthEssence
04-18-2009, 11:06 PM
You are welcome to make comments and or ask questions.

Soulscape
04-18-2009, 11:23 PM
http://www.canada.com/news/Hope+stays+high+search+missing+girl+intensifies/1510864/story.html
video interview with mother. I am not going to ask where the emotion is (oops did I just ask that?).. Not casting doubt in any direction... seriously.... but coming on the heels of little Sandra's case this mother is a complete oposite emotionaly and it gives me some pause...


Nurse, I would say the mother's curious 'performances' on camera fuel the hinky meter, no doubt.

Having only date of birth for Tori with no exact time or location leaves us with a sunrise chart for location of disappearance. We cannot be sure of the angles (ASCENDANT, Midheaven, IC and DESCENDANT), nor the MOON's degree. The sunrise MOON gives a degree of 10 Capricorn, however, Tori's MOON would be in Capricorn (between 7 and 19 degrees) no matter what time she was born on that day. Despite the hindrances inherent in sunrise charts, I often find them to be quite insightful, and read them symbolically.



http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq5/Soulscape12/Victoria%20Stafford/ToriStaffordNATALSunrise.gif



Tori's natal sunrise MOON at 10 Capricorn is greatly afflicted, suggesting difficulty with the mother. First, MOON is unhappy in Capricorn, sign of its detriment. Additionally MOON is opposite both MERCURY and MARS, sesquiquadrate SATURN, square CERES (nurturing), quindecile NORTH NODE, and conjunct BLACK MOON LILITH. My software program gives MOON a score of minus 10. With CERES of nurturing in 4th House the Home/ Family/ early Childhood and MOON square, I wonder how supportive and nurturing her mother has been.

Tuba mentioned in her post above concern over natal VENUS at solstice point with natal SATURN. In addition, I see natal SUN solstice point at 06 Gemini opposite natal PLUTO, MOON solstice point 19 Sagittarius opposite natal HADES, MARS solstice point at 10 Gemini exact opposite natal PLUTO, SATURN solstice point at 01 Leo conj. natal VENUS, and PLUTO solstice point at 19 Capricorn opposite natal MARS. All of these are very harsh connections. Natal SUN applying sesquiquadrate natal PLUTO doesn't help.

Traditionally, the 10th House rules the mother, here Aries, thus MARS, which scores minus 9 according to my astrology software. MARS in Cancer representing the mother conjunct the SUN suggests anger and resentment, particularly as that MARS opposes MOON (mother).

Please note well: none of this 'proves' the mother is implicated in the disappearance; however, we should keep it in mind as we go forward.

Thanks,
Soulscape

butterfly1978
04-18-2009, 11:35 PM
in the above tri-charts Ceres and the moon also share the 4th house , mother is moon if I am not mistaken and the 4th house is family and home, Ceres being kidnapping, so if I read this like a book I would see kidnapping ( Tori) , family and home ( I wonder if she actually didn't make it home) and mother.
Please correct me if I am wrong...

I do have a question, both mars and sun are at 19 degrees what signifigance is that?

Lovejac
04-19-2009, 01:32 AM
http://www.canada.com/news/Hope+stays+high+search+missing+girl+intensifies/1510864/story.html
video interview with mother. I am not going to ask where the emotion is (oops did I just ask that?).. Not casting doubt in any direction... seriously.... but coming on the heels of little Sandra's case this mother is a complete oposite emotionaly and it gives me some pause...

I don't like the feeling I'm getting. I guess we need to sleuth some more dob's

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/619277

Yesterday, the missing girl's mother, Tara McDonald, said local rumours that her girl was snatched because of a drug debt of $33,000 – or any other amount – are false.

She lashed out at those spreading rumours.

"It is all bull**** – I don't owe anyone anything. If there is anyone who says I owe him money, bring him to me here and I'll answer all questions," said a furious McDonald.

McDonald said she and her boyfriend, James Goris, have heard the talk around town and insists none of it is true. She said she has not been taking illicit drugs and is not a dealer. "I haven't done drugs since high school. Who doesn't smoke weed in high school? But not after that."

She acknowledged her boyfriend faces criminal charges, but that's not an issue.

ETA: Fifth, I hope it's okay to put this here! Is there a thread that you would rather this be on?

Lovejac
04-19-2009, 01:41 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090415.wblatch15art2249/BNStory/National/home

Rumours are everywhere here - the poisonous side of any small town - the most benign that a family member allegedly has recognized something familiar in the woman's walk.

Very interesting. I'm up for looking for Mom, Tara's birthday after church, if anyone thinks it would help in any way. I'm check back tomorrow! Good night!

butterfly1978
04-19-2009, 02:38 AM
Lovejac, I am trying and I cant find anything on TM, other than news paper articles. I dunno if its because I'm in the states or what.

dianebs
04-19-2009, 04:34 AM
It is really difficult to find a person's birth in Canada on the Internet, unless it is 1911 or earlier. If there is anyone who lives close to Woodstock or in London that is able and willing to look up newspapers on microfiche .. that is possible to do and find. Since Tara's oldest is 10, I would search paper's from 1973-1981. Seeing pictures of her and video, she appears to be mid 20's - early 30's I would assume. Tori's grandmother's name is Doreen Graichen, I would assume and hope that Tori's maiden name is Graichen. I just say hope because it would make things easier. City directories, may have ages .. I know they did years ago (I'm into genealogy). That is another option at a nearby library.

ChattyWoman
04-19-2009, 09:18 AM
TM is 30. JG is 31.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/ottsun/090418/canada/tori_s_family_tree

Tuba
04-19-2009, 09:48 AM
in the above tri-charts Ceres and the moon also share the 4th house , mother is moon if I am not mistaken and the 4th house is family and home, Ceres being kidnapping, so if I read this like a book I would see kidnapping ( Tori) , family and home ( I wonder if she actually didn't make it home) and mother.
Please correct me if I am wrong...

I do have a question, both mars and sun are at 19 degrees what signifigance is that?

As mentioned in my earlier post, the square of the transit Sun, shortly to become partnered in a Full Moon, to Victoria's natal Mars is nothing but trouble. But transit Mars is trine natal Mars, making for the ease of this walk away abduction.

Your progress is nothing short of amazing, butterfly1978!

We cannot ignore Venus in the heavens that day. It becomes part of all event charts, although right now we are working with but one. Venus was 0° 51' Aries, thus the girl was at crisis as soon as taken and well aware of her predicament.

elepher50
04-19-2009, 10:36 AM
Tori's grandmother's name is Doreen Graichen, I would assume and hope that Tori's maiden name is Graichen. I just say hope because it would make things easier. City directories, may have ages .. I know they did years ago (I'm into genealogy). That is another option at a nearby library.

Hi Dianebs, I agree it is difficult to find dob's in Canada. It appears that Tara's maiden name would be McDonald (based on Tori's maternal grandfather to be Jim McDonald). Doreen Graichen is noted to be the paternal grandmother of Tori. Here is a link that was supplied in above post(ChattyWoman) that outlines who is who in relation to Tori:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/ottsun/090418/canada/tori_s_family_tree

Given the info in the link, it would be Tara McDonald (maiden name hopefully) that we are trying to find a dob for. Notably missing in the who is who list is the maternal grandmother and the paternal grandfather - they are not listed.

Tuba
04-19-2009, 12:19 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/TakenVictoriaStafford041.jpg

This charts a slightly different moment in time. The Canadian papers report school was dismissed at 3:40 p.m., just enough later to provide a new ASC, Virgo. House 7 of Removals and H. 8 of Dire Peril are thus read together and Victoria was on her way out of town as explained under the horoscope. Those born on a Full Moon Total Eclipse are more susceptible under a Full Moon such as occurred just hours after Victoria was taken. Venus is in exile, detrimented and therefore weak, incapacitated and unable to act and greatly disadvantaged in House 8, so dangerous!

This unknown woman is working with the Sun at Cusp 9, was with him before coming to Woodstock and going to meet him as she and Victoria leave. Any time you see a planet on the dark or hidden side of Cusp 9, the individual (or group) is about to take a secret trip. They may be going to Windsor or London judging from the chart directive. Because South Latitude and Cadent, the old method says too far to measure. Butterfly's method would give a line toward Toronto and right up to a door in Toronto.

elepher50
04-19-2009, 01:16 PM
Okay, there appears to be some sort of ties to London. Thanks Kaas, we have a facebook link now. Here is a brief look and it references London:

kaas
04-19-2009, 01:37 PM
The network listed as London, this is the closest large municipality and many from outlying rural areas such as Woodstock, Ingersoll etc have their network listed as London.

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 01:53 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/TakenVictoriaStafford040.jpg

This charts a slightly different moment in time. The Canadian papers report school was dismissed at 3:40 p.m., just enough later to provide a new ASC, Virgo. House 7 of Removals and H. 8 of Dire Peril are thus read together and Victoria was on her way out of town as explained under the horoscope. Those born on a Full Moon Total Eclipse are more susceptible under a Full Moon such as occurred just hours after Victoria was taken. Venus is in exile, detrimented and therefore weak, incapacitated and unable to act and greatly disadvantaged in House 8, so dangerous!

This unknown woman is working with the Sun at Cusp 9, was with him before coming to Woodstock and going to meet him as she and Victoria leave. Any time you see a planet on the dark or hidden side of Cusp 9, the individual (or group) is about to take a secret trip. They may be going to Windsor or London judging from the chart directive. Because South Latitude and Cadent, the old method says too far to measure. Butterfly's method would give a line toward Toronto and right up to a door in Toronto.Tuba, is there any way to tell if she 'might' have known any of the abductors?

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 02:01 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090419.wvtorihomevideo0419/VideoStory/National/home?pid=RTGAM.20090419.wtorisunday0419
home video of Tori released (note... it is played within the talking heads report)

dianebs
04-19-2009, 03:33 PM
So, is there anyone in London, Ontario that can go to a library and search in newspaper microfiche for Tara McDonald in the years 1978 and 1979???

dianebs
04-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Okay, there appears to be some sort of ties to London. Thanks Kaas, we have a facebook link now. Here is a brief look and it references London:

Yes, with facebook .. anyone who lives in a smaller city would have there network as London. so, London references does not mean they are actually living there but could live in a smaller city or town. Anyone living in Woodstock would be listed under London network, as Woodstock is small.

Tuba
04-19-2009, 03:41 PM
nurse, I think Victoria at least recognized the name or reference given to her by the woman in the puffer coat. I left the Sign Cancer (empty) off the horoscope unintentionally. I think it is really important too because the peregrine Moon rules that intercepted H. 11. Peregrine planets refuse to cooperate and are engaged in pointless activity. She is found in the House of the Future, H. 2. She may witness the child and/or the kidnapper leaving the car or in a store, possibly a restaurant but fail to report that. We cannot forget the ugly Mars-Saturn opposition to the First House simply because we have grown used to it this month. Cruelty, sadism. It does remind me too of Victoria needing to hurry to keep pace with the unknown woman who walks so briskly. Mercury is creeping on 40° from Mars, a nonagon. This is an aspect of either release from captivity or initiation. Into what, some weird rite?

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 04:08 PM
does anyone have any idea how far the security camera is from Tori's school? Tuba just got me to thinking on her last post...

butterfly1978
04-19-2009, 04:08 PM
As mentioned in my earlier post, the square of the transit Sun, shortly to become partnered in a Full Moon, to Victoria's natal Mars is nothing but trouble. But transit Mars is trine natal Mars, making for the ease of this walk away abduction.

Your progress is nothing short of amazing, butterfly1978!

We cannot ignore Venus in the heavens that day. It becomes part of all event charts, although right now we are working with but one. Venus was 0° 51' Aries, thus the girl was at crisis as soon as taken and well aware of her predicament.

Thank you So very much Tuba for the complement, I have spent the past few months just about every waking minute trying to learn this. I am amazed at its accuracy, and beleive it is a vital tool. I just wish the police would take it serious. I have done natal charts on everyone in my family and they are so dead on and have really helped me to understand especially my children. Comparing Natal charts with other event charts seems to be my hld up right now, but I have figured that if you read an event , such as the last scene time for Tori, on its own it really tells its own story.

Tuba
04-19-2009, 04:30 PM
Absolutely such charts stand alone! If we were to form a republic right now, although I'm not sure who would make room for us, that republic would have a creation chart of its own. Any other country that brought it into a trade partnership would register as a partner in the Seventh House and the agreement or contract that bound us would register in the Third House. The republic and its chart would have a life of its own.

No one would bother to ask, "Who put this republic together anyhow?" until much later, if at all.

Tuba
04-19-2009, 04:35 PM
:waitasec:does anyone have any idea how far the security camera is from Tori's school? Tuba just got me to thinking on her last post...

I wonder why the time stamp on the video is unreliable so that only an approximation was ever given.

At on-line newspapers, descriptions indicate that the sidewalk video is a very short walk from Victoria's school.

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 04:41 PM
Tuba,
I just posted that same question on the other thread and will have to go back to repost the exact times... but there is only a seven minute gap between when Tori left that school and was spotted on the camera..

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 04:45 PM
Here it is... from RoseKiller:


Rose Killer (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=36128) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 322


OPP list Tori as released from school at 3:25 and seen on video at 3:32.
Hope this helps. Per their website.

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 04:51 PM
In around seven minutes... from walking out of school this child ends up walking with puffy white coat chic down the street in the direction of her own home! This had to have been planned. Given the fact that her brother walked the disabled child home I would be interviewing him to see if someone had asked him to do it that day.

Also, Tuba, when you said they "hurried" and that the abduction was easy.. could puffy white chic have told Tori that her mom was sick or in an accident and they had to hurry or something to that effect? Do you see any deception in the event?

Lexiintoronto
04-19-2009, 04:57 PM
does anyone have any idea how far the security camera is from Tori's school? Tuba just got me to thinking on her last post...


From the Globe and Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090415.BLATCH15ART2249/TPStory/?query=victoria+stafford

"The picture of Tori with the mystery woman was retrieved from footage taken by a camera at College Avenue Secondary School, which shares a huge green space with Oliver Stephens Public School where Tori is in Grade 3 with 20 other youngsters. The photograph was taken about 200 yards from an intersection almost equidistant from Tori's former home on Fyfe Street and the new small blue-sided home on Frances. Neither house is more than a few minutes walk away, even at a child's pace."

butterfly1978
04-19-2009, 05:10 PM
In around seven minutes... from walking out of school this child ends up walking with puffy white coat chic down the street in the direction of her own home! This had to have been planned. Given the fact that her brother walked the disabled child home I would be interviewing him to see if someone had asked him to do it that day.

Also, Tuba, when you said they "hurried" and that the abduction was easy.. could puffy white chic have told Tori that her mom was sick or in an accident and they had to hurry or something to that effect? Do you see any deception in the event?

I am going to go out on a limb here and answer this question, if I am wrong someone say so, but I have to say yes. Neptune is the planet of deception and its in the the 7th house, which tells me something secret and mysterious was going on. The 7th house is the house of cooperation and opposition, also rising conflicts, with Neptune being placed here I would have to say yes.

Tuba
04-19-2009, 05:50 PM
The fact that the child's house was so very close to the walking pair means that it was a very rash and brazen move in broad daylight, don't you think? Globe & Mail is just one of the papers that gives a slightly later moment, 3:40. But all of these times have usefulness because she did have to be put into the car or building and there was at least one decision involved, 0° Virgo = getting underway and chosing a route, for eg. Moon in Libra very recent to the kidnapping opposed Venus. The woman took notice of Victoria. The woman is also // the Sun, a north south contra parallel where they made a swift agreement, perhaps by phone or text message based on Moon's description of Victoria.

The Moon rules activity in an event chart and so, creates happenings and connectons with many people in her fast motion through the skies.

dianebs
04-19-2009, 06:25 PM
does anyone have any idea how far the security camera is from Tori's school? Tuba just got me to thinking on her last post...

The link below is a news article in which it states where exactly on the street she was last seen from the surveillance camera.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/Art...aspx?e=1518588

The video, taken by a College Avenue Secondary School video camera, shows Stafford walking northbound along Fyfe Avenue near the intersection with Walter Street at 3:32 pm Wednesday, around the same time the Grade 3pupil left Oliver Stephens Public School.

Oliver Stephen Public School is located: 164 Fyfe Avenue, Woodstock Ontario N4S 3S6
College Avenue Secondary School is located: 700 College Avenue, Woodstock Ontario
N4S 2C8

Estimated Time: 0.60 minutes Estimated Distance: 0.13 miles (from www.mapquest.com)

The schools are side by side. The secondary school’s address is on College, but as reported the video was taken from College Avenue Secondary School near the intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street. This would make it closer to Tori’s school and be seconds to walk to.

Tuba
04-19-2009, 06:50 PM
I would like to hear more from the father's relatives regarding "There is something familiar about that woman's walk!"

elepher50
04-19-2009, 07:55 PM
And would like to know how many times Stafford has been married. Here is a quote from newspaper article:
McDonald, Goris and his mother Darlene Goris, Tori's father Rodney Stafford and another of Stafford's ex-wives were among the people who took lie detector tests over the Easter weekend. "We were happy to do it," said McDonald. "It means they can rule us out and look where they should."

Article Link: http://www.thespec.com/article/549372

elepher50
04-19-2009, 08:52 PM
Here is a map visual of where things are in Woodstock (deciphered with the greatest of help from Kaas):
Trillium Co-op: Where Tori used to live
Frances Street: New area where Tori just moved into a few weeks ago
CAAS: Secondary school where the camera was mounted
Keats Road: Police cars were positioned off Springbank where Keats Road ends today
Care Home: The position the camera was angled from the CASS structure
Toril's School: School Tori attended
Camera/Video: Intersection of Fyfe and Walter aimed towards the Care Home

Here is the visual:
http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/Tori/SpringbankAveV3.jpg

butterfly1978
04-19-2009, 09:11 PM
And would like to know how many times Stafford has been married. Here is a quote from newspaper article:
McDonald, Goris and his mother Darlene Goris, Tori's father Rodney Stafford and another of Stafford's ex-wives were among the people who took lie detector tests over the Easter weekend. "We were happy to do it," said McDonald. "It means they can rule us out and look where they should."

Article Link: http://www.thespec.com/article/549372

I read that but they have NOT ruled anyone out, even after the poly's

elepher50
04-19-2009, 09:21 PM
I read that but they have NOT ruled anyone out, even after the poly's

Hi Butterfly1978, Righty-o, nobody has been ruled out. Wish they would publish a composite sketch of the person in the video - I read somewhere that they were doing one - it may help identify the Puffy Jacket.

dianebs
04-19-2009, 09:49 PM
I would like to hear more from the father's relatives regarding "There is something familiar about that woman's walk!"

In the below article, they do not say which relative said it.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_33711.aspx


CityNews reporter Tara Weber watched the cleaned-up video with a few of Victoria’s relatives. One of them suggested they may now recognize the unknown person.
“Well, we only know one woman who walks that way,” the relative reportedly commented.

nursebeeme
04-19-2009, 10:10 PM
Well....I hope they have shared their observations....

dianebs
04-19-2009, 10:42 PM
Well....I hope they have shared their observations....

I think whomever said that has, as on the news, the police have said they are close to knowing who the woman is.

dianebs
04-19-2009, 10:56 PM
I have a question.

Does anyone know through the chart if there is any implication that this woman knew the family???

I just find it very odd for it to be a random abduction. One would think, that the abductor would be driving in a car searching for a child that is alone. Woodstock is a small town .. even the police say the community knows more than them (scary). This abductor took such a big risk, for one being in a small city and can be recognized and doing it in broad daylight when school gets out, near the school. Too many adults around, Tori could have yelled out and she could have been caught. Just does not make sense. If random .. wouldn't someone go to nearby London, which is a much larger city?

I don't know if this has been mentioned before. But there have been many articles stating of rumours that Tori's mother owed drug money. The mother was furious with the claims and said she only did marijuana in highschool.

But, this would be a motive for a kidnapping. Drug dealers will go to extremes. Just a thought.

FifthEssence
04-19-2009, 11:35 PM
It was the father who recognized something about the stride.
I had copied and saved his quote with other notes I was collecting off the cbcnews.ca site in an article dated 4/16/09:

"From the first time that I watched that video, there has always been something about that stride, but I just can't place it," he said. "I can't at all."

doubletrouble
04-20-2009, 06:44 AM
This has been posted online...if someone wants to call to get birthdates? not sure how appropriate..but nevertheless important...i dont have the neccessary speaking skills// please p,m me for number if okay and you wish to call..astros?

This was Posted by Rob S!!! (toris dad)
This is a message to the individual or individuals who have TORI, I'm posting my cell # so you can contact me. I believe you are reading this. Let me know where we can get together and you can leave Tori with me no questions asked. We just want her back so our family knows she is OK. 519-2xx xxx4, anytime

dianebs
04-20-2009, 08:28 AM
This has been posted online...if someone wants to call to get birthdates? not sure how appropriate..but nevertheless important...i dont have the neccessary speaking skills// please p,m me for number if okay and you wish to call..astros?

This was Posted by Rob S!!! (toris dad)
This is a message to the individual or individuals who have TORI, I'm posting my cell # so you can contact me. I believe you are reading this. Let me know where we can get together and you can leave Tori with me no questions asked. We just want her back so our family knows she is OK. 519-2xx xxx4, anytime

Let me know what everyone thinks, I am willing to do this .. but want input from everyone else, it we should go this route.

butterfly1978
04-20-2009, 08:43 AM
I beleive we were told not to contact anyone in cases unless it is to report a tip.

Lexiintoronto
04-20-2009, 08:56 AM
Let me know what everyone thinks, I am willing to do this .. but want input from everyone else, it we should go this route.
My only trepidation would be that he posted the number for the abductor(s) to call. He may have already received calls from well-wishers and every call may have let his hopes down. I hate the idea that he is waiting by the phone for a call that likely will not come :(

Tori's mom has said that she is working with psychics. I'm not comparing psychics to astros, but I'm saying that she seems open to any suggestions.

What do you think of calling reporters, such as Christie Blatchford? She would know, and might cough it up.

Doodlelover
04-20-2009, 08:59 AM
Firstly, I would like to thank everybody for their work on helping to find Tori.

I am from the area. I live about 7 minutes from where she disappeared. My son plays soccer at College Ave in their gym on the weekends.

One thing I would like to mention, people talk about it being odd that someone would try to abduct a child in a small town, Woodstock has over 30 000 population and the small town I'm in has only 9000 but both are directly on the 401 Hiway. This is the MAJOR hiway that runs from Toronto all the way down to the Windsor/Detroit border.

We have had as many as 6 attempts at abduction in my small town of 9000. These were just reports of strangers in a car asking the kids to help them or take a drive with them. It is believed that being right off the 401 corridor is the reason for this. Predators come from other areas and hop off the 401 to try and abduct a child and have fast and easy access to be out of the area very quickly by travelling the 401.

The disappearance of Tori has had a huge impact here and parents are fearful. I do know that regardless of alot of the rumors that the general feeling is that neither of the parents are involved.

There is a rumor that the puffy coat person is of Asian decent and is a recruiter for one of the Asian gangs from Vancouver. These groups abduct white, pretty girls and transport them to Vancover. This is all rumor but there is also a sort of joke here that only the Asians wear those puffy coats on what was a warm day for the area. It was also said that Tori was gone from the area immediately.

If anybody has any ideas or areas they feel strongly about that need to be searched I can do that.

The other problem here seems to be that the public is outraged that there was NEVER an amber alert issued. That was a huge mistake. Tori was reported missing by 6 pm, there should have been an amber alert issued shortly after, but the police didn't even alert the media until the wee hours of the morning the next day. It wasn't until 10 days later that the police finally said it was an abduction. For the first 10 days they said that they had no reason to believe that she was abducted. OMG she didn't come home and she is 8 years old, she didn't have her parents permission to leave and they have footage of her with someone who was not authorized to take her, so therefore that IS an abduction. I hate to say it but the police dropped the ball early on in this investigation.

Yesterday they reopened the ground search and had a massive search and dragged some waterways, but so far nothing.

Also in Ontario things like birth certificates and such are completely private, it will be very hard to find this information, especailly on line. There are strict privacy rules here, not just anybody can see or access this information.

Thanks again and I hope I can help in some way.

Lexiintoronto
04-20-2009, 09:12 AM
Doodlelover, what you said about the puffy coats is true in Toronto as well; they're worn mainly by Asians. That's a good observation. (And I'm not trying to stereotype, but the coats are fashionable in the Asian community).

nursebeeme
04-20-2009, 09:20 AM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82741
this is the link to the general discussion thread for Tori

nursebeeme
04-20-2009, 09:32 AM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3632917&postcount=366

this comment that double posted on the general thread was very interesting considering what Tuba posted earlier:
nurse, I think Victoria at least recognized the name or reference given to her by the woman in the puffer coat. I left the Sign Cancer (empty) off the horoscope unintentionally. I think it is really important too because the peregrine Moon rules that intercepted H. 11. Peregrine planets refuse to cooperate and are engaged in pointless activity. She is found in the House of the Future, H. 2. She may witness the child and/or the kidnapper leaving the car or in a store, possibly a restaurant but fail to report that. We cannot forget the ugly Mars-Saturn opposition to the First House simply because we have grown used to it this month. Cruelty, sadism. It does remind me too of Victoria needing to hurry to keep pace with the unknown woman who walks so briskly. Mercury is creeping on 40° from Mars, a nonagon. This is an aspect of either release from captivity or initiation. Into what, some weird rite?
__________________

I hope that facebook commenter in Doubles post has contacted LE

elepher50
04-20-2009, 09:51 AM
Firstly, I would like to thank everybody for their work on helping to find Tori.

If anybody has any ideas or areas they feel strongly about that need to be searched I can do that.

Also in Ontario things like birth certificates and such are completely private, it will be very hard to find this information, especailly on line. There are strict privacy rules here, not just anybody can see or access this information.

Thanks again and I hope I can help in some way.

Respectfully snipped by me: Thanks for your insight and being on the ground in Woodstock. One question that I have that you may know the answer to: How tall is Tara (Tori's mother)? The 401 is very close isn't it - would make for a straight line to Toronto. Praying that Tori is safe but as the days go by it is getting more difficult. Please if you know how tall Tara is that would be very helpful.

kaas
04-20-2009, 10:07 AM
According to the missing poster Tori stands 4 ft 5 inch., the unidentified woman is described at being 5 ft 2 inch.
Sorry, edited because I read your question wrong. Tired.

elepher50
04-20-2009, 10:09 AM
According the the missing poster Tori stands 4 ft 5 inch

Thanks Kaas - how tall is Tara - the mother - do you know?

kaas
04-20-2009, 10:14 AM
I am not certain of Tara's exact height, sorry. In videos and photos she appears to be close in height to her boyfriend.

Lexiintoronto
04-20-2009, 10:27 AM
I e-mailed a reporter and asked for the DOB, will try others as well.

dianebs
04-20-2009, 10:37 AM
Firstly, I would like to thank everybody for their work on helping to find Tori.

I am from the area. I live about 7 minutes from where she disappeared. My son plays soccer at College Ave in their gym on the weekends.

Also in Ontario things like birth certificates and such are completely private, it will be very hard to find this information, especailly on line. There are strict privacy rules here, not just anybody can see or access this information.

Thanks again and I hope I can help in some way.

Thank You Doodlelover for all the information you have given, I'm wondering if you are willing or able to go to a library to look up birth dates? Most major libraries will have newspapers from years ago.

For the astrologers to get more information, they would like to find out the birth date of Tara McDonald. We have determined that she would have been born in 1978 or 1979. McDonald is her maiden name, as her father's last name is the same.

Also, I have cousins who live in Vancouver and will get them to put up Tori's Missing Poster. If anyone knows anyone who lives in Vancouver, please do the same, just in case this has happened.

Below is a link to a Tori poster that can be printed out.

http://www.lrcf.net/public-flyers/VICTORIA___TORI_STAFFORD.pdf

doubletrouble
04-20-2009, 11:23 AM
Let me know what everyone thinks, I am willing to do this .. but want input from everyone else, it we should go this route.

that was a nice gesture...i just happened to see this post from tricia on caylees forum..perhaps this may answer my initial question?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3361104&postcount=1

Doodlelover
04-20-2009, 11:34 AM
Thank You Doodlelover for all the information you have given, I'm wondering if you are willing or able to go to a library to look up birth dates? Most major libraries will have newspapers from years ago.

For the astrologers to get more information, they would like to find out the birth date of Tara McDonald. We have determined that she would have been born in 1978 or 1979. McDonald is her maiden name, as her father's last name is the same.

Also, I have cousins who live in Vancouver and will get them to put up Tori's Missing Poster. If anyone knows anyone who lives in Vancouver, please do the same, just in case this has happened.

Below is a link to a Tori poster that can be printed out.

http://www.lrcf.net/public-flyers/VICTORIA___TORI_STAFFORD.pdf

Hi Diane

My DD works at the library, so when she gets home from school, she is in high school, I will ask her how to go about looking for this info. I am willing to go search micro fisches if for those years to find TM's birth date, I'll keep you posted.

FifthEssence
04-20-2009, 12:11 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/DOGblinking.gif

Regarding the contacting of family members, it is important you are aware of Websleuth's postion.

reference snippets below are from a statement by TRISHA/Owner of WS- http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3361104&postcount=1

We welcome with open arms people involved who want to post but please remember, if you call someone you are not acting as a representative of Websleuths.com

I have to make myself very clear here. If you choose to contact someone and invite them to join Websleuths you are doing this on your own with no input from the owner.

Please understand, I do appreciate everyone's participation. Every day I come on this board and you all leave me speechless with your ability to find people, to take apart the evidence, and in general figure out what is going on. I bet many times you all figure out what is going on before LE does

We just need to be careful and respect people and their privacy.

Lovejac
04-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Just kind of wondering out loud here, so bear with me and let me know if this is possible.

The camera that recorded Tori and the woman walking together at around 3:32 pm, I'm wondering if the woman was recorded walking alone toward Tori's school on that same camera. What I mean is, I wonder if that was the same route used by the woman to go get Tori and then bring her back. Would the charts show that?

To be sure the police have checked this out. right?

Turbododger
04-20-2009, 01:03 PM
I could put forth the question regarding Tori's birthdate on the Facebook Group that I am a member of, should I do that?

beckaroozie
04-20-2009, 01:10 PM
Just kind of wondering out loud here, so bear with me and let me know if this is possible.

The camera that recorded Tori and the woman walking together at around 3:32 pm, I'm wondering if the woman was recorded walking alone toward Tori's school on that same camera. What I mean is, I wonder if that was the same route used by the woman to go get Tori and then bring her back. Would the charts show that?

To be sure the police have checked this out. right?

Oooh VERY good point Lovejac!! Oh and it's awesome to see you around again. We missed ya. :blowkiss

beckaroozie
04-20-2009, 01:11 PM
I could put forth the question regarding Tori's birthdate on the Facebook Group that I am a member of, should I do that?

Hi Turbo. Thanks very much for the offer! I think they're looking for the mother, Tara's DOB (and place), if you can find that.

Scanner
04-20-2009, 01:15 PM
Caught tail end of Tara's news conference today. I don't know if a Reporter asked her her b./date, but she responded "October 27, 1978'. Sounds like the timeframe we are looking for. The news conference was on live at www.cbcnews.ca
Also, her brother, Scott McDonald died nine months ago at age 44. His b.date was two days ago. Her step-dad died a month ago.
Hope that helps

Soulscape
04-20-2009, 02:14 PM
Caught tail end of Tara's news conference today. I don't know if a Reporter asked her her b./date, but she responded "October 27, 1978'. Sounds like the timeframe we are looking for. The news conference was on live at www.cbcnews.ca (http://www.cbcnews.ca)
Also, her brother, Scott McDonald died nine months ago at age 44. His b.date was two days ago. Her step-dad died a month ago.
Hope that helps


Thank you for reporting this, Scanner. Can any of our Canadian friends who may have seen this news conference confirm/ refute whether this was in fact Tara's response to the question 'when were you born/ what is your birth date'?

Thanks to Everyone who is looking for birth dates & city/town/province of birth of the key players, particularly:

1. Tori's mother Tara McDonald (age 30)
2. Tara McD's current boyfriend, James Goris (age 31)
3. Tori's father Rodney Stafford (age unknown)
4. Tori's 10 year old brother, Daryn.

We have Tori's date of birth (7/15/2000) but if anyone can confirm city/town/province of birth, it may be helpful.

TIA,
Soulscape

dianebs
04-20-2009, 02:54 PM
Thank you for reporting this, Scanner. Can any of our Canadian friends who may have seen this news conference confirm/ refute whether this was in fact Tara's response to the question 'when were you born/ what is your birth date'?

Thanks to Everyone who is looking for birth dates & city/town/province of birth of the key players, particularly:

1. Tori's mother Tara McDonald (age 30)
2. Tara McD's current boyfriend, James Goris (age 31)
3. Tori's father Rodney Stafford (age unknown)
4. Tori's 10 year old brother, Daryn.

We have Tori's date of birth (7/15/2000) but if anyone can confirm city/town/province of birth, it may be helpful.

TIA,
Soulscape

I will watch the 6 pm news to see it. Hopefully they won't edit everything out. I will also search the internet for the footage.

Doodlelover, has said she will go to the library to look up the birth dates, this is the only way to do it in Canada. I will mention the others. Hopefully they were born around there.

Rodney Stafford is 33 years old
Jim McDonald .. is Tori's paternal grandfather .. but they do not put his age
Doreen Graichen .. Tori's paternal grandmother. They also do not say the age.

Here is the link for the above information.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/ottsun/tori_s_family_tree

Doreen Graichen is married to Steve Millen .. then Doreen's children are:
Rob Stafford, 37, Rodney Stafford (lives in Ingersoll), 33, Randi Millen 31, Rebecca Stafford, 29 Russell Edmonds, 26 (lives in Alberta).

Here is a link for the above information.

http://www.lethbridgeherald.com/content/view/49229/27/

dianebs
04-20-2009, 03:03 PM
Hi Diane

My DD works at the library, so when she gets home from school, she is in high school, I will ask her how to go about looking for this info. I am willing to go search micro fisches if for those years to find TM's birth date, I'll keep you posted.

Thank you so very much! We need the actual birthday and place of birth (city, province) for the following people.
Victoria Stafford – born 7/15/2000
Rodney Stafford – born in 1975 or 1976
James Goris – born in 1977 or 1978
Daryn Stafford – born in 1998 or 1999

elepher50
04-20-2009, 03:22 PM
Thank you for reporting this, Scanner. Can any of our Canadian friends who may have seen this news conference confirm/ refute whether this was in fact Tara's response to the question 'when were you born/ what is your birth date'?

Thanks to Everyone who is looking for birth dates & city/town/province of birth of the key players, particularly:

1. Tori's mother Tara McDonald (age 30)
2. Tara McD's current boyfriend, James Goris (age 31)
3. Tori's father Rodney Stafford (age unknown)
4. Tori's 10 year old brother, Daryn.

We have Tori's date of birth (7/15/2000) but if anyone can confirm city/town/province of birth, it may be helpful.

TIA,
Soulscape

Confirmed that the reporter asked Tara what her birthday was and the response was October 27, 1978 - it is at the very end of the press conference. Here is the link:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090420/Tori_missing_090420/20090420/?hub=TorontoNewHome

butterfly1978
04-20-2009, 03:55 PM
Okay, I gotta a question..... I ran charts for both Tara Mcdonald , one for London, Canada and one for Woodstock, Onterio Canada, and there really isn't a diffrence in the two. Can someone explain to me what the diffrence would be, if they are the same????

Soulscape
04-20-2009, 04:34 PM
Okay, I gotta a question..... I ran charts for both Tara Mcdonald , one for London, Canada and one for Woodstock, Onterio Canada, and there really isn't a diffrence in the two. Can someone explain to me what the diffrence would be, if they are the same????

The difference would be in the latitude/ longitude. London coordinates would be slightly south & west of Woodstock coordinates.

Unless I have exact birth information, I tend to rely on analyzing charts from a symbolic astro-forensic perspective. Thus, I would simply relocate the key player charts to Woodstock since that's where they live and that's where the disappearance took place.

Of course, I completely respect that other astrologers may employ different methods/ approach charts differently.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Lexiintoronto
04-20-2009, 05:25 PM
Confirmed that the reporter asked Tara what her birthday was and the response was October 27, 1978 - it is at the very end of the press conference. Here is the link:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090420/Tori_missing_090420/20090420/?hub=TorontoNewHome The funny part was that the reporter asked: 'A forensic psychic asked me what your birthdate was...'

Doodlelover
04-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Wow, you guys are quick.

I was just going to report that Tara was asked by the reporter, what her birth date was. So at least we have that to go on now.

I will try and get some more info on the rest that was listed here.

Lovejac
04-21-2009, 12:29 AM
It has become eerily quiet since the super astros received Tara's date of birth.

I'm very concerned.

elepher50
04-21-2009, 09:20 AM
Tori was reported missing by TM at 6:06pm based on this quote "Constable Maitland said that Ms. McDonald first called police to report Tori missing at 6:06 p.m"

from this link:
http://xtremeleafan.blogspot.com/

Soulscape
04-21-2009, 11:49 AM
It has become eerily quiet since the super astros received Tara's date of birth.

I'm very concerned.


Just up to my eyeballs in charts, that's all --- plus normal 'real life' duties/obligations such as job, family, etc.

Hope to have time to examine charts more closely and post some commentary this evening. Thank you for your patience.

Also, thanks to Elepher50 for posting corrected time of phone call to LE.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Lovejac
04-21-2009, 12:32 PM
Just up to my eyeballs in charts, that's all --- plus normal 'real life' duties/obligations such as job, family, etc.

Hope to have time to examine charts more closely and post some commentary this evening. Thank you for your patience.

Also, thanks to Elepher50 for posting corrected time of phone call to LE.

Thanks,
Soulscape

LOL, I just had the funniest visual image!

No pressure, Soulscape, my mind was suspiciously racing and I just assumed that Tara's chart was troubling.!:(

nursebeeme
04-21-2009, 12:38 PM
thank you soul for all you do!!!!!!!

Tuba
04-21-2009, 02:02 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/TaraofOntario043.jpg

Note the very afflicted Moon here, conjoined to Saturn and square to Neptune. That is a law breaking Moon and involves a plot.

msfittz
04-21-2009, 02:14 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/TaraofOntario043.jpg

Note the very afflicted Moon here, conjoined to Saturn and square to Neptune. That is a law breaking Moon and involves a plot.

Just to confirm, the abduction could be linked to someone Tara "met" or "encountered" on Feb 15th -16th. Is that right?

I am fascinated by what you guys do, but am absolutely clueless, so even though I'm reading it, I don't want to assume I understand.

Tuba
04-21-2009, 02:27 PM
But you assumed right.

msfittz
04-21-2009, 02:53 PM
Check this out...it's the first thing I found when I googled the date and Woodstock.

http://www.ufoinfo.com/sightings/canada/090215.shtml

I'll keep looking...

msfittz
04-21-2009, 03:27 PM
February 16, 2009 was Family Day - a public holiday in Saskatchewan, Alberta and Ontario provinces. That might make it easier for Tara to recollect.

Tuba and Soulscape, do we have any link or indications to 2/15 - 2/16 in Tori's charts?

Lovejac
04-21-2009, 03:35 PM
The funny part was that the reporter asked: 'A forensic psychic asked me what your birthdate was...'

I wish we knew who the reporter was. We could e-mail them and see if they can ask Tara what she was doing on that Sunday and Monday (Feb 15th & 16th)

msfittz
04-21-2009, 03:45 PM
I wish we knew who the reporter was. We could e-mail them and see if they can ask Tara what she was doing on that Sunday and Monday (Feb 15th & 16th)

I think it's in the Missing Thread that someone was going to e-mail a specific news outlet.

I'll go back and look as soon as I pick up my DD from school.

Actually it was this thread and it was Lexi.

dianebs
04-21-2009, 03:49 PM
Tuba, are you able to see if Tara is involved with drugs with this chart? Just wondering if the rumours of her owing money to a drug dealer (she denies) is true. As this would be a good motive for an abduction and reason for all the fundraising.

Thanks for all you guys are doing!

dianebs
04-21-2009, 05:44 PM
I would also add regarding the possibility of Tara owing money to a drug dealer and all the fundraising ...

In The Hamilton Spectator today

http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/551949

McDonald's aunt, Linda Jacklin, said the motorcycle ride, dubbed "Tori's Ride Home," will be held May 2 in the southwestern Ontario city to raise money for the girl's family to help with "expenses that come up."

Jacklin said the money raised from the ride will be used to set up a second bank account to help with the family's phone bill. A separate bank account had previously been set up for other expenses.

"The first one is for mental help from psychiatrists, psychologists, whatever is needed, and a trust fund for the children," Jacklin said.

I live in Hamilton Ontario. Now, why would they need the public to pay for their phone bill???? And psychiatrists are medical doctors and therefore are free with our Health Card. So why do they need all this money????

Tuba
04-21-2009, 06:04 PM
The contacts from Family Day to Victoria's chart are somewhat wide but the mother's were exact on that day. Without a lot more information, someone could have been watching and observing whereas Tara & Victoria might have been unaware of that. Mother & child may have been doing something not connected with the celebration then. I like that we have a landmark in memory, however. It may help Tara recall who she was around and where.

Tuba
04-21-2009, 06:11 PM
We should store in mind that there had been an eclipse a week before Family Day. We all know about that because Haleigh vanished on the eclipse. The point that makes it relevant here is those same planets in Tara's chart, Mercury & Venus in the above post about February 15, 16, were hit by the eclipse on February 9. Eclipses have a long, long reach. Please note too that on the day the woman in puffer coat took Victoria, the Moon was 9° Libra exactly trine the February 15 and 16 planets for the woman's identification and recognition of Victoria.

MsRyber
04-21-2009, 06:20 PM
Psychiatry IS covered by OHIP. Psychologists, therapists, etc., are not.

Tuba
04-21-2009, 06:28 PM
If ones child is seized, money would seem the last concern. On one newspaper page, the prior home of the child was described as a cooperative. This may be a poverty situation.

siestalola
04-21-2009, 06:41 PM
Just up to my eyeballs in charts, that's all --- plus normal 'real life' duties/obligations such as job, family, etc.

Hope to have time to examine charts more closely and post some commentary this evening. Thank you for your patience.

Also, thanks to Elepher50 for posting corrected time of phone call to LE.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Hi Soulscape,
I am totally green to what /how you do this astro stuff but I'm getting the impression that you like correct dates and names. I am therefore giving you the following obituary that I found on another site. It lists Tara as Tara McDonald (James). I don't know if this is important but I thought I would forward to you.

WINTERS, Robert “Rob” - “Walk slowly darling”, Robert passed away at the Woodstock General Hospital on Monday December 24, 2007 in the arms of his beloved wife and best friend, Linda Winters (nee Webb) in his 55th year. After a courageous fight with cancer, Robert has gone to join his moms Lyda (nee Temple) Winters (2001), Ruth Webb (2000) and his Dad, Herbert Winters (1959) in a heavenly place. Special Poppa to, Daryn and Victoria Stafford, and their mother Tara McDonald (James) of Woodstock. Remembered with love by Dad, Frank Webb, his children Shawn (Laurie) Winters and Trina (Steve) Stefan and their families of Tillsonburg, by his sister Ruth Anne and Mervin Derbowka.

Thank you for all of your insight

kaas
04-21-2009, 07:01 PM
If ones child is seized, money would seem the last concern. On one newspaper page, the prior home of the child was described as a cooperative. This may be a poverty situation.

Here is a link regarding co operative housing in ontario. Many single parent and low income families relyy on co-op housing for affordable residence as there is accommodation for "geared to income" rentals.
http://www.chfcanada.coop/eng/pages2007/about_1.asp

kaas
04-21-2009, 07:06 PM
I am trying to follow what the astrology forensic findings are but must admit I am having difficulty. Could someone please provide a synopsis of what the "readings" are?
It would be much appreciated, and also there are many links, replies and questions here that might be more supported through the missing/located discussion forum.

CentralAlberta
04-21-2009, 07:17 PM
Psychiatry IS covered by OHIP. Psychologists, therapists, etc., are not.

This is true. However, there are many organizations that have therapists and psychologists that work on a income basis. The smaller your income the less you pay. Also, the school board would have access to all of these things and there would be no charge to anyone.

dianebs
04-21-2009, 08:05 PM
This is true. However, there are many organizations that have therapists and psychologists that work on a income basis. The smaller your income the less you pay. Also, the school board would have access to all of these things and there would be no charge to anyone.

I have a background in social work and in Ontario the majority of counselling resources is free. Any organization with social workers and therapists are free, as well as all psychiatrists are automatically free because they are medical doctors. The only therapists that are not free are ones who have private practices, and really the only people who go to them are one's that can afford them. So really I don't see this being an issue at all because there are so many that are free that are good.

dianebs
04-21-2009, 08:26 PM
Hi Soulscape,
I am totally green to what /how you do this astro stuff but I'm getting the impression that you like correct dates and names. I am therefore giving you the following obituary that I found on another site. It lists Tara as Tara McDonald (James). I don't know if this is important but I thought I would forward to you.

WINTERS, Robert “Rob” - “Walk slowly darling”, Robert passed away at the Woodstock General Hospital on Monday December 24, 2007 in the arms of his beloved wife and best friend, Linda Winters (nee Webb) in his 55th year. After a courageous fight with cancer, Robert has gone to join his moms Lyda (nee Temple) Winters (2001), Ruth Webb (2000) and his Dad, Herbert Winters (1959) in a heavenly place. Special Poppa to, Daryn and Victoria Stafford, and their mother Tara McDonald (James) of Woodstock. Remembered with love by Dad, Frank Webb, his children Shawn (Laurie) Winters and Trina (Steve) Stefan and their families of Tillsonburg, by his sister Ruth Anne and Mervin Derbowka.

Thank you for all of your insight

I have no clue who Robert Winters is, as they refer Tara .."their mother" and according to the Ottawa Sun. Tara's father is Jim McDonald.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/ottsun/tori_s_family_tree
Perhaps Robert was an adopted grandpa to the children?

Scanner
04-21-2009, 08:42 PM
In a local paper yesterday it referenced Tara's 'step dad' passing away within the last month. This 'Winters' obit doesn't fit that time frame. Perhaps her mother has had multiple husbands? There is suppose to be a 44 year old brother named Scott that passed away 9 months ago that the above obit fails to mention as well. What's even more confusing is in the presser Tara gave today she said she was an only child, and gave the impression that her and her mom's relationship was less than close.

Soulscape
04-21-2009, 09:36 PM
Tuba has noted previously in her post above Tara McDonald's afflicted natal MOON conjunct SATURN with both square NEPTUNE.

When looking at the chart using Koch houses and a Sunrise time of birth, we see that MOON partile conjuncts the Greater Malific and of course, both square NEPTUNE, the planet of illusion/ delusion/ secrets/ drugs/ alcohol/ addictions of every variety.

Not shown, Asteroid BACCHUS 16:37 Sagittarius is partile conjunct natal NEPTUNE and thus also square the MOON-SATURN conjunction. In assessing natal promise, these are strong markers for potential addiction issues for the chart owner. MOON-SATURN connections also frequently give sadness/ depression and can indicate that the chart owner was denied affection/nurturing by the mother during childhood.

We know from the news stories/ information we have gathered on this case that Tara (by her own account) 'used to' use drugs of some sort (she downplays this past history). There is also, as you know, a rumor floating around that serious (SATURN) drug money (NEPTUNE-BACCHUS in 2nd house of money) was owed (square) and Tori possibly abducted in retaliation.

Please note this last sentence is only a RUMOR, and one Tara venomously denies. Still, it is quite amazing to see it in the natal chart!




http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq5/Soulscape12/Victoria%20Stafford/TaraMcDonaldNATALSunrise-1.gif



Using traditional rulerships, the 5th House of Children is ruled by JUPITER, here in Leo, the sign of children. This would symbolize Tori in Tara's chart. Lord 5 JUPITER at 07 Leo is focal point of a T-square involving natal SUN 03 Scorpio opposite CHIRON 07 TAURUS. This gives a sense of damage/hurt (CHIRON) to self (SUN) through/by a child (JUPITER as Lord 5 of Children).

Chillingly, at 07 Taurus, CHIRON partile conjuncts the Fixed Star HAMAL 07:47 Taurus integrating it wholly into the T-square, with both CHIRON-HAMAL opposing SUN and partile squaring JUPITER Lord 5 the Child. In astrology, HAMAL is also known as The Death Wound.

Thanks,
Soulscape

elepher50
04-21-2009, 09:42 PM
Okay, this is another mind boggling case of who is who. Here is a pix of Rodney Stafford with his mother-in-law Linda Winters.
Just click on the thumbnail to enlarge:

http://s598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/Tori/?action=view&current=FamPixApril18.jpg

elepher50
04-21-2009, 09:49 PM
Soulscape, you hurt my very linear head. Are you saying that perhaps Tara hurt/damaged herself by doing something with Tori?

Soulscape
04-21-2009, 09:53 PM
This post is for the new Visitors to the Forensic Astrology Forum. Those of you who have heard me (repeatedly) make similar comments can feel free to skip over this post and go on to others.

Horary astrology in general and forensic horary astrology in particular is very different from natal astrology. It is fraught with complex rules, and is extremely black & white, fatalistic and (sometimes it seems) depressingly negative. Please do not compare apples with oranges!! These charts we discuss are analyzed through a forensic horary filter seldom if ever used in natal astrology. Do not compare the charts we discuss on this Forum with your own or loved ones' charts and keep yourselves up at night because you think you see similar aspects dooming you to unthinkable futures.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Soulscape
04-21-2009, 09:56 PM
Soulscape, you hurt my very linear head. Are you saying that perhaps Tara hurt/damaged herself by doing something with Tori?

No, not at all, Elepher. I am saying that Tara's chart show natal promise (the potential for manifestation) of a situation/circumstance involving a child that may wound her. Surely abduction of one's child would fall into that category.

Sorry for any confusion. Always feel free to ask for clarification.

Thanks,
Soulscape

elepher50
04-21-2009, 10:43 PM
Thanks, do you or can you see any possibility of money being exchanged or involved? Not sure this is possible?

CentralAlberta
04-21-2009, 11:02 PM
Okay, this is another mind boggling case of who is who. Here is a pix of Rodney Stafford with his mother-in-law Linda Winters.
Just click on the thumbnail to enlarge:

http://s598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/Tori/?action=view&current=FamPixApril18.jpg

So this must be how we get the "Special Poppa" in the obituary for Rob Winters.

Soulscape - Does "The Death Wound" mean Tara has/or is going to (suicide) inflicted a wound that has/will caused death?

dianebs
04-21-2009, 11:05 PM
Soulscape,

In Tara's Natal Chart, when you say,

There is also, as you know, a rumor floating around that serious (SATURN) drug money (NEPTUNE-BACCHUS in 2nd house of money) was owed (square) and Tori possibly abducted in retaliation.

Please note this last sentence is only a RUMOR, and one Tara venomously denies. Still, it is quite amazing to see it in the natal chart!

Are you saying there is a great possibility of this being the motive of the abduction? I understand that the rumour is out there, but is her natal chart actually proving this theory?

dianebs
04-21-2009, 11:38 PM
Okay, this is another mind boggling case of who is who. Here is a pix of Rodney Stafford with his mother-in-law Linda Winters.
Just click on the thumbnail to enlarge:

http://s598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/Tori/?action=view&current=FamPixApril18.jpg

This is so very strange and agree totally mind boggling case of who is who.

Perhaps the mother in-law Linda Winter's is one of Rodney's ex-wives mother??

It is odd, that in the obituary that they leave out Rodney as the parent of his kids but include Tara. My theory .. at the time of Robert's death, this is the time he broke up with his wife??? Therefore bitter feeling with Rodney?

elepher50
04-21-2009, 11:56 PM
Take a look:

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/sketch.jpg

Taken from OPP website:
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1704213989&view=11636-2&Start=0

nursebeeme
04-22-2009, 12:00 AM
Take a look:

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/sketch.jpg

Taken from OPP website:
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1704213989&view=11636-2&Start=0
OMG:confused::eek::confused:

elepher50
04-22-2009, 12:02 AM
OMG:confused::eek::confused:

Where is the LONG hair ... :banghead::banghead::banghead:

elepher50
04-22-2009, 12:06 AM
This is a man is it not?

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/sketch.jpg

elepher50
04-22-2009, 12:08 AM
Beemer .. can u go to the other Tori thread?

nursebeeme
04-22-2009, 12:10 AM
it certainly is androgynous!

elepher50
04-22-2009, 12:15 AM
where is the other Tori thread you speak of?

Over here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82741&page=21

butterfly1978
04-22-2009, 01:07 AM
Take a look:

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt62/elepher50/sketch.jpg

Taken from OPP website:
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1704213989&view=11636-2&Start=0
Certainly looks to me like Tara Mcdonald with her hair pulled back just like here.

http://www.lfpress.ca/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?x=galleries&s=gallery&p=2975&pg=45


Sorry guys after now seeing the composite, hearing Tara speak and seeing the charts. I am totally convinced she knows exactly what happened to Tori!!
Look up images of Tara there is one where she has a baseball cap on, I am telling you looks just like the composite!

elepher50
04-22-2009, 01:32 AM
Here is a side by side to look at:

petresq_algc
04-22-2009, 03:25 AM
Here is a side by side to look at:

Oh WOW! The two look almost identical! That sketch could very well be of her mother :eek:

elepher50
04-22-2009, 09:41 AM
Astros all: With Hamal in the chart noted in Soulscape's chart above do you see pre-meditation in any of this abduction either by the presence of Hamal or the positioning?

Soulscape
04-22-2009, 12:43 PM
Astros all: With Hamal in the chart noted in Soulscape's chart above do you see pre-meditation in any of this abduction either by the presence of Hamal or the positioning?


Hello Elepher,

HAMAL the Death Wound, so prominent in Tara's natal chart by its exact conjunction to her CHIRON opposite SUN and exact square to natal JUPITER is highlighted in the LAST SEEN chart by its close square to the NODES (06 Aquarius/Leo) and close conjunction to Tori's secondary progressed BLACK MOON LILITH at the time of the event, also at 6 Aquarius.

HAMAL prominent is a secondary death marker. It does not correlate with premeditation.

Thanks,
Soulscape

dianebs
04-22-2009, 04:36 PM
Below is a very interesting news article from today.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/News/Tori+mother+odds+over+composite+sketch/1520226/story.html

"There's a lot of similarities in the eyes, cheeks and face to someone a lot of people know," said Stafford. "If anybody out there notices what I noticed in the photo there are going to be a lot of phone calls coming into the (police) station (Wednesday)."

snipped by me

But while Tori's father believes he knows the woman, Tara McDonald, his separated partner and Tori's mother, told reporters Wednesday she has no clue who the woman is.

Also, worth mentioning Tara has given over a white coat and vest she owns to the police and the Oxford police have been spotted today in Toronta and the Forensic Lab.

dianebs
04-22-2009, 05:41 PM
I do not know if this is true or not, but will mention. On a facebook group for Tori, which was set up by Tori's father's family. A person named Steph, who attends the school which the video was taken, states that his/her mother works with a person who recognized the person in the sketch and his/her mother was present when he called the police. He gave the police her name and stated that she used to be friends with the mother, Tara.

This could be indeed true, as the father states he recognizes this woman from highschool. Perhaps, when Rodney states the sketch is of a face to which a lot of people know .. with Woodstock being a small town .. maybe that is what he is referring to.

If this is the person involved the abduction, why doesn't Tara recognize the picture when her ex does???

Also, with what has been reported in the papers, it does sound like Rodney grew up in Woodstock.

FifthEssence
04-22-2009, 07:14 PM
Hello Everyone
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/DOGblinking.gif

We truly appreciate the updates you bring us particularily items that are time stamped, date specific. Think dates, times, locations.

If you are bringing us daily news or you feel something should be brought to our attention that you observed on the Main thread, simply post a LINK and one line describing the context.

Let's get back on course within the realm of Astrology.

Thank you for understanding


Here is the link to the TORI STAFFORD Thread out on the Main forum which covers all sorts of discussions not related to astrological aspects of this case.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83332

elepher50
04-23-2009, 04:11 PM
Astros all: Sorry we cannot come up with dad Rodney's birthdate as yet. Tuba has brought to light the dates around the Family Day and who was around the mom at that time. The next date that I see referenced of significance is May 15th and 16th onTuba's chart. In any of your charts Astros all, do you see any significant dates between now and May 15th/16th? All of this of course is all based on the assumption (may be a bad one at that) that I have read Tuba's write up correctly.
Thanks again for all you do, and I honestly don't know how you do it and it must be extremely difficult emotionally as well - once again a big thanks.

butterfly1978
04-23-2009, 04:20 PM
Astro's can you please clear something up for me, I have looked at the charts of Tara's mom looked at the 3:32 chart as well as the 911 chart, and from my interpretations, which I have used based on the previous threads that I have learned so much from, to me, I see a direct connection of Tara's involvement.
Can you explain to me exactly what it is you see that points to this being someone associated with Tara and not Tara directly??? Thanks in advance!

elepher50
04-23-2009, 04:45 PM
Astro's can you please clear something up for me, I have looked at the charts of Tara's mom looked at the 3:32 chart as well as the 911 chart, and from my interpretations, which I have used based on the previous threads that I have learned so much from, to me, I see a direct connection of Tara's involvement.
Can you explain to me exactly what it is you see that points to this being someone associated with Tara and not Tara directly??? Thanks in advance!

Hi Butterfly1978, Did you use the exact time of 6:06pm as the time reported to the police? That was verified after there was a lot of talk of Tori being reported missing around 6:30pm. No doubts in my mind that you are using the correct data, just doing a double check to ensure that you had caught the verified 6:06pm time as the thread was quite busy around the time the 6:06pm was posted. Thanks for all you are doing - it is amazing.

butterfly1978
04-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Hi Butterfly1978, Did you use the exact time of 6:06pm as the time reported to the police? That was verified after there was a lot of talk of Tori being reported missing around 6:30pm. No doubts in my mind that you are using the correct data, just doing a double check to ensure that you had caught the verified 6:06pm time as the thread was quite busy around the time the 6:06pm was posted. Thanks for all you are doing - it is amazing.

I had actually used the time of 6:00pm I have not run one for 6:06, I'll look but I cant see where it would make that big of a diffrence.

butterfly1978
04-23-2009, 06:21 PM
Bringing this over from the main thread I beleive it was Diane that posted it.

For Astros .. I have date of birth for Daryn Stafford.

April 24, 1998

http://www.thewesternstar.com/index....=244810&sc=505

They state Daryn will be 11 on Friday.
Reply With Quote

Soulscape
04-23-2009, 07:35 PM
Bringing this over from the main thread I beleive it was Diane that posted it.

For Astros .. I have date of birth for Daryn Stafford.

April 24, 1998

http://www.thewesternstar.com/index....=244810&sc=505

They state Daryn will be 11 on Friday.
Reply With Quote


Thank you, Butterfly. Little Daryn will be having a sad birthday without his sister. The charts show much affection between them. His SUN trines her MOON, by sign if not degree. His VENUS-JUPITER conjunction trines her MARS and SUN. His MOON trines her VENUS, by sign if not degree.

On another note, can anyone confirm/refute: Tori's grandmother (Tara's mother) was the person who reported Tori missing to police at 6:06 pm on 4/08/09. If this is incorrect, who placed the call?

TIA,
Soulscape

siestalola
04-23-2009, 07:55 PM
Thank you, Butterfly. Little Daryn will be having a sad birthday without his sister. The charts show much affection between them. His SUN trines her MOON, by sign if not degree. His VENUS-JUPITER conjunction trines her MARS and SUN. His MOON trines her VENUS, by sign if not degree.

On another note, can anyone confirm/refute: Tori's grandmother (Tara's mother) was the person who reported Tori missing to police at 6:06 pm on 4/08/09. If this is incorrect, who placed the call?

TIA,
Soulscape

It has been reported on various news reports that it was the Grandma that reported Tori missing at 6:06. Apparently the Grandma did not call the Police but walked to the Police Station to report her missing.

elepher50
04-23-2009, 07:57 PM
My heart goes out to little Daryn, what a terrible situation that little boy is in. I pray for his sake that he is being insulated somewhat but no matter how much love and insulation surrounds Daryn right now he is a hurting little boy. He no doubt has a heartache right now that no 11 year old boy should ever, ever feel.

FifthEssence
04-23-2009, 08:17 PM
It has been reported on various news reports that it was the Grandma that reported Tori missing at 6:06. Apparently the Grandma did not call the Police but walked to the Police Station to report her missing.


Do you have a link?

I find the reports online vary. First I heard Tara called the police, then one article says the father called police, then I see an article that said Tara walked to the Police Station ( read that on the main forum ) and now we're hearing the grandmother may have.

will keep adding time line here:
Around 6 p.m. that night, Tori's parents reported her missing and police
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090409/victoria_missing_090410/20090411/

Shortly after 6 p.m., Tori's mother and partner report her missing to police. Police begin their search.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/04/14/9108861-sun.html

elepher50
04-23-2009, 08:48 PM
"Her mother reported her missing at 6:06 p.m. that evening, and since then photographs of the blonde third-grader have been plastered all over this town of 36,000, and everyone is puzzling over the identity of the woman in the white parka." It definately says that the mother reported her missing but this may just be bad reporting although the Globe and Mail is usually accurate. We will need to find a source for the report that the g'mother reported her missing I think - it has been talked about on the boards but I am not sure there is a definitive link to reference to confirm it.
The article referenced below is now archived in the stingy Globe and Mail.

Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/subscribe?user_URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FLAC.20 090414.MISSING14ART2205%2FTPStory%2FTPNational%2F% 3Fpage%3Drss%26id%3DGAM.20090414.MISSING14ART2205&ord=30332693&brand=theglobeandmail&redirect_reason=2&denial_reasons=none&force_login=false

siestalola
04-23-2009, 08:50 PM
Do you have a link?

I find the reports online vary. First I heard Tara called the police, then one article says the father called police, then I see an article that said Tara walked to the Police Station ( read that on the main forum ) and now we're hearing the grandmother may have.

will keep adding time line here:
Around 6 p.m. that night, Tori's parents reported her missing and police
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090409/victoria_missing_090410/20090411/

Shortly after 6 p.m., Tori's mother and partner report her missing to police. Police begin their search.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/04/14/9108861-sun.html

I will see if I can find it again. I read alot of different sites so it may be difficult. Leave it with me...will do my best.

elepher50
04-23-2009, 08:55 PM
I will see if I can find it again. I read alot of different sites so it may be difficult. Leave it with me...will do my best.

Hi Siestaloa, Thanks for helping out here - this is just another little mystery we have to solve along the way. We really need links to newsreports to validate the information if you can find any.
Thanks for all your help - it is hard slogging to go through this stuff.

elepher50
04-23-2009, 09:03 PM
Second source of the mother calling in that Tori was missing at 6:06pm:

"Constable Maitland said that Ms. McDonald first called police to report Tori missing at 6:06 p.m., when both day and evening shifts were around, with the result that officers scoured first the house itself (because young children can drop off to sleep like a stone, they are often discovered snoozing in unexpected places), then the immediate neighbourhood, retracing the little girl's steps with their canine unit."

http://xtremeleafan.blogspot.com/

butterfly1978
04-24-2009, 01:16 AM
Bringing this over from the Main thread, this is where Tara states the grandmother reported Tori missing.
http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip163648

FifthEssence
04-24-2009, 01:41 AM
Here we go again...WHO contacted the police?

Constable Maitland said that Ms. McDonald first called police to report Tori missing at 6:06 p.m. ( post above #140)

Video report as noted above post #141 - Tara shakes her head YES her Mother contacted the police @ 8:37 minutes into video

elepher50
04-24-2009, 06:31 AM
Here we go again...WHO contacted the police?

Constable Maitland said that Ms. McDonald first called police to report Tori missing at 6:06 p.m. ( post above #140)

Video report as noted above post #141 - Tara shakes her head YES her Mother contacted the police @ 8:37 minutes into video

Hi FifthEssence, Maybe "Ms. McDonald and the truth are strangers".

doubletrouble
04-24-2009, 06:56 AM
maybe just maybe the t.m doesnt recall...for well whatever reason....it has been reported on several sites and from taras mouth lately that her mom....the grandma to tori went and reported her missing at 6:06pm...also read several places that the grandma walked....

Soulscape
04-24-2009, 10:49 AM
Hi FifthEssence, Maybe "Ms. McDonald and the truth are strangers".

To Elepher, Butterfly, Siestalola, FifthEssence and anyone else who tried to straighten this out, thank you!

There is more than one way to examine an Event chart. Each way gives slightly different information. I prefer knowing who contacted LE, and in this case, I am leaning toward the G-ma because of the information I am getting from the chart when I read it this way.

I am sorry to report that no matter which way I read the Event Charts (LAST SEEN as well as 6:06 pm Missing Persons Report), both as stand-alone charts as well as in conjunction with Tori's natal chart, I see Tori as dead. The family (mother, mother's side) has inside information.

I will post charts/ more commentary over the weekend.

Thanks,
Soulscape

elepher50
04-24-2009, 10:54 AM
To Elepher, Butterfly, Siestalola, FifthEssence and anyone else who tried to straighten this out, thank you!

There is more than one way to examine an Event chart. Each way gives slightly different information. I prefer knowing who contacted LE, and in this case, I am leaning toward the G-ma because of the information I am getting from the chart when I read it this way.

I am sorry to report that no matter which way I read the Event Charts (LAST SEEN as well as 6:06 pm Missing Persons Report), both as stand-alone charts as well as in conjunction with Tori's natal chart, I see Tori as dead. The family (mother, mother's side) has inside information.

I will post charts/ more commentary over the weekend.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Gulp .... thud. Sorry, this is hitting very hard.

kaas
04-24-2009, 11:14 AM
I feel sick..............

siestalola
04-24-2009, 11:50 AM
To Elepher, Butterfly, Siestalola, FifthEssence and anyone else who tried to straighten this out, thank you!

There is more than one way to examine an Event chart. Each way gives slightly different information. I prefer knowing who contacted LE, and in this case, I am leaning toward the G-ma because of the information I am getting from the chart when I read it this way.

I am sorry to report that no matter which way I read the Event Charts (LAST SEEN as well as 6:06 pm Missing Persons Report), both as stand-alone charts as well as in conjunction with Tori's natal chart, I see Tori as dead. The family (mother, mother's side) has inside information.

I will post charts/ more commentary over the weekend.

Thanks,
Soulscape
Geez Soulscape,
I really am hopeful that you are wrong! No disrespect of course but.....ouch makes me sick to my stomach

dianebs
04-24-2009, 11:54 AM
To Elepher, Butterfly, Siestalola, FifthEssence and anyone else who tried to straighten this out, thank you!

There is more than one way to examine an Event chart. Each way gives slightly different information. I prefer knowing who contacted LE, and in this case, I am leaning toward the G-ma because of the information I am getting from the chart when I read it this way.

I am sorry to report that no matter which way I read the Event Charts (LAST SEEN as well as 6:06 pm Missing Persons Report), both as stand-alone charts as well as in conjunction with Tori's natal chart, I see Tori as dead. The family (mother, mother's side) has inside information.

I will post charts/ more commentary over the weekend.

Thanks,
Soulscape

So very sad, lets hope justice will happen quickly and Tori will be found quickly!

Soulscape
04-24-2009, 12:00 PM
Geez Soulscape,
I really am hopeful that you are wrong! No disrespect of course but.....ouch makes me sick to my stomach


FWIW, Siestalola, I hope I am wrong, too.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Kat
04-24-2009, 12:04 PM
FWIW, Siestalola, I hope I am wrong, too.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Soulscape, first let me say think you for your hard work on Sandra's case. A big thank you to all of you that have been involved. I am deeply appreciative.

Second, let me say that my heart wants to deny what my mind knows to be true. None of you have ever been wrong in your readings. I am working it through as I type this post. So sad and so senseless.

And lastly, do you see in the readings you have done that Tori will be found or is she hidden to such an extent that she won't be found anytime soon. TIA and much love and kindness sent to you through thoughts.

Oldsoul2
04-24-2009, 01:27 PM
Question: Tuba ...you mentioned "A ring" or many people involved, also there was mention of a "trip" and abduction sensing there is a possibility that this is a group that abducts children and travels them to deliver them to someone (Male) Was there any end result in the charts of a male involved in Soulscapes resulting in death? Is the location of the first destination mentioned Toronto and then more travel to another location much further?

butterfly1978
04-24-2009, 03:52 PM
Astro's can you please clear something up for me, I have looked at the charts of Tara's mom looked at the 3:32 chart as well as the 911 chart, and from my interpretations, which I have used based on the previous threads that I have learned so much from, to me, I see a direct connection of Tara's involvement.
Can you explain to me exactly what it is you see that points to this being someone associated with Tara and not Tara directly??? Thanks in advance!

Sorry to be quoting myself but could someone answer this for me. Thanks in advance!

Soulscape
04-24-2009, 04:32 PM
Sorry to be quoting myself but could someone answer this for me. Thanks in advance!


Butterfly, I cannot answer your question briefly at present and while I cannot speak for the other Astrologers, you will see my rationale in the commentary I make on the charts over the weekend.

Please have patience.

Thanks,
Soulscape

Tuba
04-24-2009, 08:07 PM
Oldsoul2, the chart does show Toronto as the ultimate destination, using the method that butterfly brought to us.

Tuba
04-24-2009, 09:59 PM
butterfly1978, the chart I am working from is ever so slightly different because the 3:32 p.m. horoscopes had already been cast and several news sources (papers) in Canada were reporting 3:40 instead. So as not to make a repetitive wheel, I decided we could afford a look at a second possibility. If Victoria went willingly, and at first she seems to have, the actual seizure against will would have been a bit later, so both times have meaning.

The Sun of an event describes its nature, always. The Sun in the chart equates to a stealth trip. It is on the hidden side of H. 9. This trip is taking place owing to a H. 12 act. We know this because the Sun rules H. 12. That is the House of Kidnap and the Sign of Children holds the cusp at 2° Leo 13', Victoria's own Venus.

The Moon of an event chart depicts the activity involved. Here it is a Moon on the defensive, Libra, trying to protect herself and find some personal security in H. 2, based on stressful, Cancer, circumstances, H. 11 that include restraint, intercept. There is deception and the truth is hidden in H. 5 and H. 11, home to interceptions. Mercury rules the ASC and at 0° Virgo must make a decision and Mercury in H. 9 is a traveling person. Mercury is the go-between, the agent acting at the dictation of the Sun who is in charge, moving independently and disdaining hazards and the outright danger of what is done here. The Sun went on the offensive to accomplish this and Mercury was the Sun's instrument and intermediary.

With the chart cast for 3:40 p.m., we have to read the Ascendant and its First House with House 2 because the same Sign holds both cusps, equally true for H. 7 and 8. The Moon is already coming into reflex action with afflicted Mars because of their solstice points. The more this child tries to guard and protect herself, the more aggression is used against her.

The mother is shown to be involved with a new state of affairs, which may be more than the removal to a new house and she is at crisis before this kidnapping. An exigent situation explodes like gelignite. Venus at 0° Aries (critical degree) is about to square Pluto in the H. of Children. Saturn disposits Pluto and is opposed by Mars, a cruelty aspect. Scorpio is found where home and family belong instead. The New Moon today afflicts the H. 4 and H. 10 solstice points. Venus has just squared the cusp of the House of Children.

The Node of the Moon 5°47' Aquarius is disposited by Uranus and those two points are in horizon parallel, i.e., equidistant from the cusp of H. 7 and so acting together. Thus associates act in an abrupt and unexpected, disruptive manner to break the law and shock a community.

butterfly1978
04-25-2009, 12:50 AM
Thank you soulscape and Tuba. Just when I think I have astrology figured out I am completely wrong, I guess I need to go back to studying before I try and interpret things, I hate to say something that isn't true or points the finger in the wrong direction. Thank you again!

dianebs
04-25-2009, 02:40 PM
I hope you do not mind me asking a question. Tuba, are you saying Tori is in Toronto. If you believe so, do you think I should be getting people to be getting up posters there? I know many flyers were handed out at a Blue Jays game and it was put up on the billboard during the game. If she is in Toronto or headed there, can you pinpoint a estimate location in Toronto, as it is a very large city. I also realize that it has been said by an Astro that she is dead .. do you know what kind of place she could be in?

I apolygize for intruding, just want to be of any help in finding her.

Diane

butterfly1978
04-25-2009, 03:25 PM
I hope you do not mind me asking a question. Tuba, are you saying Tori is in Toronto. If you believe so, do you think I should be getting people to be getting up posters there? I know many flyers were handed out at a Blue Jays game and it was put up on the billboard during the game. If she is in Toronto or headed there, can you pinpoint a estimate location in Toronto, as it is a very large city. I also realize that it has been said by an Astro that she is dead .. do you know what kind of place she could be in?

I apolygize for intruding, just want to be of any help in finding her.

Diane


Not speaking from an astro point of view, but someone who cares. If you have that resource available to be able to get flyers out in Toronto, it could never hurt to do so!

dianebs
04-25-2009, 04:29 PM
Thanks Butterfly, I'm not in Toronto personally, but do know people who live there and will get the word out to get flyers up.

Oldsoul2
04-25-2009, 08:12 PM
Respectfully snipped TUBA
There is deception and the truth is hidden in H. 5 and H. 11, home to interceptions. Mercury rules the ASC and at 0° Virgo must make a decision and Mercury in H. 9 is a traveling person. Mercury is the go-between, the agent acting at the dictation of the Sun who is in charge, moving independently and disdaining hazards and the outright danger of what is done here. The Sun went on the offensive to accomplish this and Mercury was the Sun's instrument and intermediary.

Tuba, does this mean that there is someone ie: "this woman that took her from the school" that is the go between for someone else...could that someone else be a male who has done this before? Sorry but my hunch keeps nagging at me.

Soulscape
04-25-2009, 08:31 PM
Victoria Stafford was reported missing to police on April 8, 2009 at 6:06 pm. This was approx. 2 1/2 hours after she was last seen, at 3:32 pm, on a surveillance camera near her elementary school, walking away hand in hand with an unknown female. There are conflicting reports who actually notified police, but we know it was a family member, either her grandmother or her mother.


Even without knowing for sure if G-ma or Mother filed the report, a look at the chart shows alarming testimonies that bode no good.


http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq5/Soulscape12/Victoria%20Stafford/ToriStaffordReportedMissing.gif




1. SUN at 19 Aries is posited on the dark side of the 8th House of Death. As Tuba so importantly reminded us, the SUN in an Event Chart describes the nature of the event. Here, SUN on the dark side of the 8th House describes a death which is due to an 11th House act because the SUN rules the 11th House (Leo cusp) in this chart. Notice the malefic SOUTH NODE just inside the 11th House, adding weight to the death testimony.

The 11th house is given to Aquarius on the natural wheel, ruled by URANUS. The 11th House rules (among other things) abnormality, death in the family, groups/memberships/clubs, friends, society in general, meeting others, and unforeseen circumstances. This testimony suggests death occurs because of a 'meeting' and/or unforeseen circumstance. Was the abductor a 'friend'? We know the surveillance video showed Tori walking hand in hand with the abductor, showing no sign of resistance.


2. MOON in the chart, again, as Tuba so importantly advised us, shows the activity. Here, MOON at 10 Libra is partile conjunct the Death Star Vindemiatrix often showing death in the family and partile opposed the Arabic Part of Death at 10 Aries (not shown).

Posited in Libra, MOON 'defends' herself from the SUN to which she is opposing. We already know SUN shows the nature of the event, which is death. MOON is beseiged (trapped) between two malefics --- SATURN, the classic significator of death and PLUTO of complications/ kidnap/ rape/ murder and also a significator of death.

Before MOON leaves her sign she will, at 19 degrees, inconjunct MARS (violence, rage, rape, murder) and oppose SUN (death as nature of the Event).

Adding to this testimony, MOON will also, by the time she reaches 24 Libra, become the focal point of a Yod involving Transneptunian ADMETOS (death marker) and NEPTUNE (often prominent in death charts), at 24 & 25 degrees of their respective signs. At 26 Libra, MOON will inconjunct 'the most evil Star in the heavens' ALGOL (death marker) and trine HADES (death marker). At 28 Libra, MOON will trine the Midheaven and, finally, oppose MERCURY Lord 12 the kidnapper.


3. PLUTO (complications, death, destruction, kidnapping, rape, murder) sits in the End of the Matter 4th House cohabitating with evil BLACK MOON LILITH, both death markers, both intercepted. Their dispositor SATURN sits in the radix 12th House of Kidnapping which, of course, is the turned 8th House of Death of the 5th House Child. End of the Matter Lord 4 JUPITER at 20 Aquarius is partile opposed the 2/9/09 Lunar Eclipse at 20 Leo. These are all death markers.


Additional comments:

1. If G-ma filed the report, Tori is indicated by VENUS, Lord 9 of Grandchildren, posited in her own 11th House of Unforeseen Circumstances/ actions of others beyond her control (radix 7th House). VENUS at 00 Aries is peregrine, in detriment, and Retrograde, desperately trying to escape in apparent backward motion toward Pisces, the sign of her Exaltation where she would be safe. Unfortunately, VENUS will turn stationery direct at the critical 29th degree of Pisces and once direct, return to her most unfortunate placement in Aries.

2. For those who wish to assign Tori to the 5th House of Children, we see similar dire testimonies including Lord 5 the Child in turned 8th House of Death (radix 12); 5th House cusp close conjunct Tori's natal NEPTUNE opposite natal VENUS (disappearance/ death); ruler of the turned 8th (radix 12) in the turned 4th House of the Grave (radix 8).

3. The chart offers another clue, garnered from the Sabian Symbol on the Ascendant. 29 Virgo is given to 'A Man Gaining Secret Knowledge from a Paper He is Reading.' This symbol suggests 'inside information' and/or 'secret knowledge' that likely rests with a family member since it was a family member who filed the Missing Person Report with police.




Thanks,
Soulscape

Oldsoul2
04-25-2009, 09:24 PM
Thank, Thank you, Thank you Soulscape! I have posted my question on a man being involved in a previous post and you have confirmed my hunch. I have my own thoughts on this case since it has first been posted but I cannot back it up with astrology in this forum although I will say that it deeply saddens me and makes me fearful that I have been naive to the fact that there are people in this world that have such distorted, sick desires for children and the result it has on the innocent endured to embellish these monsters.

By any chance, do the charts show anything about the death end result being in the hands of a wealthy and/or "professionally known" male perpetrator? I strongly believe this picture is much larger than meets the eye.

Soulscape
04-25-2009, 10:07 PM
Thank, Thank you, Thank you Soulscape! I have posted my question on a man being involved in a previous post and you have confirmed my hunch. I have my own thoughts on this case since it has first been posted but I cannot back it up with astrology in this forum although I will say that it deeply saddens me and makes me fearful that I have been naive to the fact that there are people in this world that have such distorted, sick desires for children and the result it has on the innocent endured to embellish these monsters.

By any chance, do the charts show anything about the death end result being in the hands of a wealthy and/or "professionally known" male perpetrator? I strongly believe this picture is much larger than meets the eye.


Hello OldSoul2,

In post #1 of this thread I examined the 3:32 pm LAST SEEN and made this comment:

Lord 1 the SUN is posited in Aries, the sign of its exaltation, at its most exalted degree (19 Aries). This cannot symbolize Tori, because it does not describe the circumstances: a young girl walking off into the sunset with an unknown person. Therefore, the ASCENDANT must symbolize the perp.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83174



It is virtually impossible for SUN to be in a better place than 19 Aries, sign and degree of his exaltation. In her examination of the 3:40 pm chart a few posts above, Tuba pointed out:

Mercury is the go-between, the agent acting at the dictation of the Sun who is in charge, moving independently and disdaining hazards and the outright danger of what is done here. The Sun went on the offensive to accomplish this and Mercury was the Sun's instrument and intermediary.



I would say the charts do not deny the possibility you suggest.


Thanks,
Soulscape

Tuba
04-26-2009, 01:40 PM
Reporting this missing person: how could anyone, especially a close relative, be such as psi misser as to make the report when Venus is sinking under the horizon and the ASC plainly shows it is too late to save the situation!!! The ASC and House 12 bear the same Sign and must be read together. Past undoing and destructive act and extremely tardy "caretaking" as notice is NOW given to the police. Looking at Mars conjunct Part of Misfortune in the "caretaking" House makes me fall back into the wall.

nursebeeme
04-26-2009, 02:49 PM
Reporting this missing person: how could anyone, especially a close relative, be such as psi misser as to make the report when Venus is sinking under the horizon and the ASC plainly shows it is too late to save the situation!!! The ASC and House 12 bear the same Sign and must be read together. Past undoing and destructive act and extremely tardy "caretaking" as notice is NOW given to the police. Looking at Mars conjunct Part of Misfortune in the "caretaking" House makes me fall back into the wall.
Tuba, Thank you for all of your insight!

Bold is mine. Are you saying that (second part bolded) past activities and bad caretaking(parenting) played a part in the late report (six pm...I mean that is three hours after this little girl should have been home from school) to police and in her disappearance in general?

(first bolded part:) Are you saying that the timing of the call (ie, waiting so long) could somehow be tied into the committed crime? In the caretaking house, which is shadowed by misfortune, what does Mars signify? (thanks in advance... I am a virgin astro LOL.. am trying hard and actually have learned a ton from all the astros...)

Tuba
04-26-2009, 04:13 PM
In the caretaking House, we find Part of Misfortune (because in the Sign of Pisces) but because it is conjunct Mars, far worse. When found in H. 6, Mars is aggression and danger.

There are people that are true psi missers. If you give them three guesses, they will err on the side of wrong far more than what the odds would dictate. But when your child is missing, adrenaline and instinct should kick in and overcome such wrongheadedness, don't you think?

doubletrouble
04-26-2009, 06:30 PM
im sorry this is o.t, but thought maybe astros would know....has anyone seen housemouse lately??
its been a couple of weeks since ive seen her post anything, and always loved to see her insight.... anyhow, was just wondering is all. tyia

Tuba
04-26-2009, 07:25 PM
housemouse said that she is very busy right now.

Oldsoul2
04-27-2009, 03:29 PM
Sketch released by police of Tori Stafford suspect

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/622336

For anyone leaving in or near Ontario on this site...my heart breaks again!

dianebs
04-27-2009, 07:36 PM
I would just like to give you some information I have found. On a facebook group, someone who grew up with Tara, confirms that Tara was born in Woodstock. Also she states her mother is Linda Winters (husband Robert died a year ago), and not Sharon McDonald .. Sharon McDonald is her step-mother.

Also, the below link is an article in which states that the co-op home Tara just moved from days before Tori went missing had detectives and forensic team that removed items.

McDonald, Goris, Tori and Daryn moved two weeks ago Friday just five days before Tori vanished from a co-op housing complex on one side of the children's school to a tiny house on the other side.

Kim Clarke, board president of the co-op, said she went into the now vacant unit a few days ago to get it ready for the next tenant when police arrived shortly after. They asked her to leave, a forensic team came, and they removed some evidence, she said.

http://www.cfrb.com/shows/912002

kaRN
04-27-2009, 07:40 PM
Okay, I gotta a question..... I ran charts for both Tara Mcdonald , one for London, Canada and one for Woodstock, Onterio Canada, and there really isn't a diffrence in the two. Can someone explain to me what the diffrence would be, if they are the same????
They're only 43 km apart ~26 miles maybe. Roughly a 37 minute drive. I tried searching for the latitudes of each but didn't have any luck. They're really close.

kaRN
04-27-2009, 07:52 PM
I would just like to give you some information I have found. On a facebook group, someone who grew up with Tara, confirms that Tara was born in Woodstock. Also she states her mother is Linda Winters (husband Robert died a year ago), and not Sharon McDonald .. Sharon McDonald is her step-mother.

Also, the below link is an article in which states that the co-op home Tara just moved from days before Tori went missing had detectives and forensic team that removed items.

McDonald, Goris, Tori and Daryn moved two weeks ago Friday just five days before Tori vanished from a co-op housing complex on one side of the children's school to a tiny house on the other side.

Kim Clarke, board president of the co-op, said she went into the now vacant unit a few days ago to get it ready for the next tenant when police arrived shortly after. They asked her to leave, a forensic team came, and they removed some evidence, she said.

http://www.cfrb.com/shows/912002

I live in a co-op and that account alone is very odd. The co-op president does not enter units to get them ready for the next tenant. You have to give 65 days notice, of your intention to move from your co-op home under law in Ontario. The president may have inspected the unit with maintenance during those 65 days prior to your moving, but after the fact, to get it ready??? The president is an elected member who lives in the co-op. They aren't the landlord.

It would be interesting to know why they left the co-op, during a recession. Our moving out rate is nil except for the evictions and I live in a huge city with more employment opportunity than Woodstock.

PS You guys are awesome!! I love what you're doing here :blowkiss:

elepher50
04-27-2009, 08:09 PM
I live in a co-op and that account alone is very odd. The co-op president does not enter units to get them ready for the next tenant. You have to give 65 days notice, of your intention to move from your co-op home under law in Ontario. The president may have inspected the unit with maintenance during those 65 days prior to your moving, but after the fact, to get it ready??? The president is an elected member who lives in the co-op. They aren't the landlord.

It would be interesting to know why they left the co-op, during a recession. Our moving out rate is nil except for the evictions and I live in a huge city with more employment opportunity than Woodstock.

PS You guys are awesome!! I love what you're doing here :blowkiss:

Hi kaRN, What would be the situation if you were "kicked out" of the co-op - would somebody else (co-op president for example) then go in after the fact and do the inspection? I really can't think of any other reason why they would move mid month given financial considerations, and co-op rules and regulations. Me thinks they possibly could have been "kicked out" - that then begs the question of what one has to do to be "kicked out" of a co-op mid month - any ideas?

dianebs
04-27-2009, 09:18 PM
Possibly drugs they got kicked out? I don't know if it has been mentioned but her boyfriend was involved years ago in a drug raid, in which James Goris was one of 16 people arrested .. pretty big raid if you ask me. I would not think quitting drugs is an easy thing to do. He was not with Tara at this time.

Tara is really burying herself now every time she opens her mouth. So many lies. At first she said she passed the polygraph test, now questioned by press, she admits that she took the polygraph 3 days after Tori went missing and because of all the emotional stress she was under and lack of sleep, she took off in the middle of it (note that during this time she was so well composed that it looked odd). So, she says she did go back and complete the polygraph, but now would like to do it again because she is more calm now!

dianebs
04-28-2009, 12:31 AM
This is all so very sad. Tara seems to be setting it up for whomever to be paid and have Tori to be found. All what you Astros have been saying is just so unbelievable.

On Citytv tonight, Tara has a very bizarre story of how a limo came came down the street (reports on other side in plain view but didn't see the limo) and the limo driver told her that his boss wanted to meet with her. So Tara goes with him .. reporters oblivious to see the limo drive away and takes her to a hotel near an airport where she goes to the top floor and meets this very wealthy lady. The lady had a missing daughter that was murdered and she showed Tara her daughter's blonde hair. Tara noted that it looked the same colour as Tori's. No this anonymous woman says that she is willing to pay any price to the person who has Tori for Tori's return. Apparently this wealthy lady flew into Toronto.

Now, the LE are saying they are looking into this matter. Now, they are not stupid. They will be able to easily search databases to look for wealthy women who had a kidnapped daughter murdered and the child has blonde hair. Then they know she flew into Toronto. So it would not be difficult for them to know who this woman is, besides the fact she left a phone number.

http://site.citynews.ca/video/?bcpid=1640183522&bclid=1896836077&bctid=21252063001

To me it appears that Tara is setting this all up, as a fundraiser "Ride for Tori" (father's family have said funds are not necessary and fundraiser isn't) is this weekend. So bikers will be riding to raise money. Coincidence that this story is done right before this event? I don't think so. Tara doesn't seem to be very bright. It just shows with all the lies.

She obviously needs money. I am wondering after this, that another anonymous person will come forward asking for money from Tara directly and tell her where to put it and tell her where she can find Tori.

I am wondering if her boyfriend is possibly involved in bike gang. He was arrested in a drug raid with 16 people in a small city. There are a lot of gang wars going on. Never heard of kidnapping or killing a child, but I remember the mention of some kind of ring.

Astros, does any of my theory add up?

butterfly1978
04-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Or maybe this rich anonymous donor is Zanny the nanny, you know she had a rich family....:crazy::blushing: sorry I couldnt resist

Tuba
04-28-2009, 01:27 PM
Weirder, Tara said she was driven to a building near the Pearson Airport in Toronto!

Soulscape
04-28-2009, 01:30 PM
...

On Citytv tonight, Tara has a very bizarre story of how a limo came came down the street (reports on other side in plain view but didn't see the limo) and the limo driver told her that his boss wanted to meet with her. So Tara goes with him .. reporters oblivious to see the limo drive away and takes her to a hotel near an airport where she goes to the top floor and meets this very wealthy lady. The lady had a missing daughter that was murdered and she showed Tara her daughter's blonde hair. Tara noted that it looked the same colour as Tori's. No this anonymous woman says that she is willing to pay any price to the person who has Tori for Tori's return. Apparently this wealthy lady flew into Toronto.

Now, the LE are saying they are looking into this matter. Now, they are not stupid. They will be able to easily search databases to look for wealthy women who had a kidnapped daughter murdered and the child has blonde hair. Then they know she flew into Toronto. So it would not be difficult for them to know who this woman is, besides the fact she left a phone number.

http://site.citynews.ca/video/?bcpid=1640183522&bclid=1896836077&bctid=21252063001



....

Astros, does any of my theory add up?

<Respectfully snipped>

Can anyone determine the date & time of this 'story' Tara is telling on video? (Also, the date & time this limo [allegedly] pulled up to her back door -- Friday 4/24/09, if IIRC...)

TIA,
Soulscape

siestalola
04-28-2009, 01:46 PM
Weirder, Tara said she was driven to a building near the Pearson Airport in Toronto!

Good Afternoon, Huh?

I don't get what you're trying to say..I've looked at the link and still I don't get what your trying to say. Sorry, please clarify.

By the way Tara said she was driven to the Sheraton Hotel at the Toronto International Airport.

FifthEssence
04-28-2009, 01:47 PM
<Respectfully snipped>

Can anyone determine the date & time of this 'story' Tara is telling on video? (Also, the date & time this limo [allegedly] pulled up to her back door -- Friday 4/24/09, if IIRC...)

TIA,
Soulscape


Video and news story from same site on 4/27/09
VIDEO story
http://site.citynews.ca/video/?bcpid=1640183522&bclid=1896836077&bctid=21252063001
Printed story: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34077.aspx

Do not have time or date of the "Limo" ride

siestalola
04-28-2009, 01:48 PM
Tuba,
After I hit send, to reply to you I had a really bad thought about the Limo, the Airport, the story. Maybe they did all take that ride but maybe not last Thursday! ?

Salem
04-28-2009, 01:51 PM
I have not been following this case, but it appears to be very strange and I have to say, I am very disheartend to read that so many think mom may be involved. It sounds as if this is very similar to the little girl that went missing in England shortly after Maddie and come to find out, her mother had her abducted for the money.

So sad.

Salem

siestalola
04-28-2009, 01:53 PM
Video and news story from same site on 4/27/09
VIDEO story
http://site.citynews.ca/video/?bcpid=1640183522&bclid=1896836077&bctid=21252063001
Printed story: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34077.aspx

Do not have time or date of the "Limo" ride

I can. On todays 1:00 presser, April 28
Tara said the limo driver knocked on her door last Thursday Apr 23, just before her presser.
They made arrangements for the limo to come back at 5:00 and take her TM to meet the mystery person. Her BF,her Brother, her friend SG, accompanied her in the Limo.
They departed Woodstock at about 5:00 that day, went to the SHeraton Airport Hotel where she met the mystery person (TM only) and were back in Woodstock by 11:00
FYI The driving time from Woodstock to Toronto Airport is about 90 minutes

Soulscape
04-28-2009, 01:58 PM
Video and news story from same site on 4/27/09
VIDEO story
http://site.citynews.ca/video/?bcpid=1640183522&bclid=1896836077&bctid=21252063001
Printed story: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34077.aspx

Do not have time or date of the "Limo" ride


According to posters in the main Tori thread, the limo 'showed up' at her house Thursday 4/23/09 before 1:00 pm --- and Tara left Woodstock at 5:00 pm Thursday 4/23/09 and was back by 11:00 pm --- picked her son up with the limo on the way home, took him for a ride, took pictures on her cell phone of the limo --- !!!!

According to same posters, Tara 'blurted out' the story 'yesterday' --- Monday 4/27/09. My question is when? During her 1:00 pm Press Conference??? If so, approx. what time did she 'blurt' this story out?

TIA,
Soulscape

FifthEssence
04-28-2009, 02:03 PM
LIVE PRESSER any minute now...scheduled for 2PM..scroll down on page, you'll see them setting up the mics
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/28/9272886-sun.html

MsRyber
04-28-2009, 02:03 PM
FYI The driving time from Woodstock to Toronto Airport is about 90 minutes

Technically, if there are no other cars on the highway and it is midnight.

LOL, definitely NOT if they left at 5pm. For any of us who are familiar with the 401 core, they would have reached Kitchener-Waterloo at 5:30 (Exit 275-278, and then hit the James Snow Parkway (Exit 320-325 ish) about 6. Then, it would have been a snails crawl through Mississauga to the 427 and/or 409. If they got off on Dixon (where all of the major hotels are), I am sure it took a heck of a lot longer than 90 minutes. They would have been lucky to get there in less than 2 and a quarter hours. I can't imagine if they were going towards Airport Road/Dixon that they would have taken the ETR. So they are looking at 2:15 to get there, if they left Woodstock at 5pm on the button. IMO. I do it every day.

doubletrouble
04-28-2009, 02:06 PM
they are setting up for another presser...looks like the police this time in woodstock
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/28/9272886-sun.html

Tuba
04-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Good Afternoon, Huh?

I don't get what you're trying to say..I've looked at the link and still I don't get what your trying to say. Sorry, please clarify.

By the way Tara said she was driven to the Sheraton Hotel at the Toronto International Airport.

We are talking about the same thing. The Pearson International Airport at Toronto and the building was the hotel because the face of it was shown in Tara's video.

Soulscape
04-28-2009, 02:46 PM
....

According to same posters, Tara 'blurted out' the story 'yesterday' --- Monday 4/27/09. My question is when? During her 1:00 pm Press Conference??? If so, approx. what time did she 'blurt' this story out?

TIA,
Soulscape

<Quoting myself>

Would anyone have time to review Tara's Monday 4/27/09 Presser and give the time she originally 'blurted out' the limo story?

Thank You,
Soulscape

siestalola
04-28-2009, 03:03 PM
<Quoting myself>

Would anyone have time to review Tara's Monday 4/27/09 Presser and give the time she originally 'blurted out' the limo story?

Thank You,
Soulscape

Soulscape,
TM actually blurted out the story last week for the first time to a news reporter that she invited into her home following the presser. The news reporter never reported it until the 6:00 news last night, after TM blurted it out at her 1:00 presser.

Would you like the time from Mondays presser (4/27)when TM blurted it out to the public or the approx time when TM blurted it to the female reporter (last week)?

I will find out either way.

Thank you

Soulscape
04-28-2009, 03:15 PM
Soulscape,
TM actually blurted out the story last week for the first time to a news reporter that she invited into her home following the presser. The news reporter never reported it until the 6:00 news last night, after TM blurted it out at her 1:00 presser.

Would you like the time from Mondays presser (4/27)when TM blurted it out to the public or the approx time when TM blurted it to the female reporter (last week)?

I will find out either way.

Thank you

Thank you, Siestalola, I would like both times/dates, if possible.

Thanks for your help,
Soulscape

Oldsoul2
04-28-2009, 03:44 PM
McDonald says that while the media was camped out on her front lawn waiting for her daily update, a limousine driver walked through her yard and knocked on her back door. When she answered he said he had a wealthy boss who wanted to meet her.

This doesn't sound good at all...Soulscape....hears the possible "wealthy" man that I was referring to when you answered my question and did the chart a few posts back......why after this couple lost their own child and is presumably already deceased would they be the ones to pay ransom for this child...unless they want to lure whoever is behind this and bring them to the forefront....wow something is definitely not kosher here!

dianebs
04-28-2009, 09:51 PM
Just an update, a person living in Woodstock has said that a caravan of police have left Woodstock after 9 pm EDT tonight. I will message a person, who was childhood friends with Tara and ask her what she has seen been going on there.

siestalola
04-28-2009, 10:11 PM
Evening Soulscape,

I apologize for taking so long but here is your answer.

The mysterious limo drive into Toronto took place last Thursday April 23.

Following Tara's daily presser at 1:00 on Friday April 24, was the day Tara invited Cynthia (the journalist)into her home. I believe this to be the day Tara told Cynthia about the limo trip. I would guess the time the presser ended to be approximately 1:10

Monday April 27 during her daily 1:00 presser, Tara told all the media outlets about the limo trip. I would guess the time to be 1:05.
Sidenote; during this same presser she also said her polygraph had been taken 3 days after Tori went missing, conducted in Kitchener, Ontario but never completed "I ended up breaking down and I ended up leaving...not because I had anything to hide" "let's get outta here, I want to go home" She was asked by the media if she would be willing to take another poly, she said "yes" if the police asked, she would. (This is NOT exactly word for word..but close)

Mionday April 27th, during the 6:00 news was the first time Cynthia (Journalist) aired the exclusive interview that Tara had given her the previous week.

I hope this helps, I tried to be as accurate as possible.

Siestalola

dianebs
04-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Another update, the family are at the police station now. I know someone who is friends with someone who is friends with both Tara and Rodney. The friend is keeping in touch with the family and states it is true that there was a police caravan leaving Woodstock.

I think this will be all over very soon. This person is going to keep me updated about what is happening in Woodstock and will watch Citytv at 11 pm .. as they seem to have the inside scoop of everything. If the police are heading to Toronto .. the media will be all over them.

siestalola
04-28-2009, 10:32 PM
Another update, the family are at the police station now. I know someone who is friends with someone who is friends with both Tara and Rodney. The friend is keeping in touch with the family and states it is true that there was a police caravan leaving Woodstock.

I think this will be all over very soon. This person is going to keep me updated about what is happening in Woodstock and will watch Citytv at 11 pm .. as they seem to have the inside scoop of everything. If the police are heading to Toronto .. the media will be all over them.

Dianebs,
I think you should post this on the other Victoria Stafford thread.

Wow..would love to see an ending for everyone involved.

Poor Tori

dianebs
04-28-2009, 10:56 PM
Sorry for the post

ChaChaCha
04-28-2009, 11:02 PM
Another update, the family are at the police station now. I know someone who is friends with someone who is friends with both Tara and Rodney. The friend is keeping in touch with the family and states it is true that there was a police caravan leaving Woodstock.

I think this will be all over very soon. This person is going to keep me updated about what is happening in Woodstock and will watch Citytv at 11 pm .. as they seem to have the inside scoop of everything. If the police are heading to Toronto .. the media will be all over them.

Thank you Diane so very much for the heads up... how am I going to sleep tonight until we know? Prayers for Tori...

PattyCake
04-28-2009, 11:08 PM
Sorry for the post

Why are you sorry for the post dear? no need to apologize for updating us... it's very welcomed

Tuba
04-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Oldsoul2, the chart does show Toronto as the ultimate destination, using the method that butterfly brought to us.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tara McDonald's evening adventure took her to Toronto when that is the location Victoria was taken to. That is from page 1, post #20 and also the above post, both of which preceded Tara's adventure.

When there is a coincidence like this, it pays to investigate any and every connection. I think that is what the police are doing in their night time caravan which probably ended in Toronto.

Oldsoul2
04-29-2009, 11:39 AM
It is an interesting coincidence that Tara McDonald's evening adventure took her to Toronto when that is the location Victoria was taken to. That is from page 1, post #20 and also the above post, both of which preceded Tara's adventure.

When there is a coincidence like this, it pays to investigate any and every connection. I think that is what the police are doing in their night time caravan which probably ended in Toronto.

I know TUBA! my thoughts exactly! When I heard about the Sheraton Hotel in Toronto story, I made the same conclusion except there is one other possibility....there's a small airport in Hamilton Ont, also a few hours passed TO is Niagara where you can cross the border into Buffalo NY, my gut is telling me that she isn't at her final destination yet and the airport security is VERY tight, what do the charts say about this "woman" at the sheraton?

MsRyber
04-29-2009, 11:52 AM
I know TUBA! my thoughts exactly! When I heard about the Sheraton Hotel in Toronto story, I made the same conclusion except there is one other possibility....there's a small airport in Hamilton Ont, also a few hours passed TO is Niagara where you can cross the border into Buffalo NY, my gut is telling me that she isn't at her final destination yet and the airport security is VERY tight, what do the charts say about this "woman" at the sheraton?

Good luck getting across the border without a birth certificate and without full disclosure when you have a minor in the vehicle.

We do lots of our shopping in the United States at Buffalo. EVERY, and I mean every time I cross, they want to know why a) my child has a different last name than myself, b) where we are going (they also always take a snapshot of your license plate), and c) why it is just ME and the child, without the child's father.

Everytime, without fail, they make me "go over there" and park while they look over our documents. Then I have to pop my trunk (in my case, the hatch to the Jeep) while they insure there are no overnight bags, etc.

With parental alienation and abduction so prevalent, they go over EVERYTHING with a fine toothed comb. I don't think Tori Stafford is getting over the border. I certainly HOPE not.

Oldsoul2
04-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Good luck getting across the border without a birth certificate and without full disclosure when you have a minor in the vehicle.

We do lots of our shopping in the United States at Buffalo. EVERY, and I mean every time I cross, they want to know why a) my child has a different last name than myself, b) where we are going (they also always take a snapshot of your license plate), and c) why it is just ME and the child, without the child's father.

Everytime, without fail, they make me "go over there" and park while they look over our documents. Then I have to pop my trunk (in my case, the hatch to the Jeep) while they insure there are no overnight bags, etc.

With parental alienation and abduction so prevalent, they go over EVERYTHING with a fine toothed comb. I don't think Tori Stafford is getting over the border. I certainly HOPE not.

I hope not as well and had the same point to argue with a friend of mine that is watching this case carefully but there have been many abductions of children that have made it across the borders with falsified paperwork and people with large amounts of money...I mentioned something about that in a previous post where Soulscape posted a chart about a possibility of someone being involved that is wealthy...maybe just maybe this time this won't happen. There seems to be this story about this woman ready to pay anything for someone else's child to be safely returned, I pray the intention is pure and true.

dianebs
04-29-2009, 03:59 PM
I know TUBA! my thoughts exactly! When I heard about the Sheraton Hotel in Toronto story, I made the same conclusion except there is one other possibility....there's a small airport in Hamilton Ont, also a few hours passed TO is Niagara where you can cross the border into Buffalo NY, my gut is telling me that she isn't at her final destination yet and the airport security is VERY tight, what do the charts say about this "woman" at the sheraton?

Just to make a correction .. Hamilton (where I live) .. Woodstock is about 1 hr drive northwest of Hamilton. Toronto is about 1 hr drive northeast of Hamilton. Niagara is about 1 hr drive southeast of Hamilton. So Niagara is not passed Toronto.

Oldsoul2
04-29-2009, 04:23 PM
Just to make a correction .. Hamilton (where I live) .. Woodstock is about 1 hr drive northwest of Hamilton. Toronto is about 1 hr drive northeast of Hamilton. Niagara is about 1 hr drive southeast of Hamilton. So Niagara is not passed Toronto.

Coming from Montreal it is...that is what I meant...sorry about that, it is the only route of reference I know, done the drive many times..I'm just adding the possibility of the small airport and the border crossing in Niagara

Tuba
04-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Placidus gives the same H. 1 and 12, H. 6 and 7 shared Signs, Leo & Aquarius but the intercept falls in H. 5 and 11. A feature I see and fear is Victoria's Venus at solstice point with her own Saturn and the fact that transiting Venus was sextile that same Weeping Sisters Saturn. Saturn-Venus contacts mean she was being used. This can be for someone's perverse satisfaction or to make money. Since the Sun on April 8 was square her Mars, exact, and Uranus was sextile to her node, opportunity beckoned. The node can represent a ring of people and since the present node is on her Neptune, this ring could have taped or filmed her. But is it possible that a classmate is already subjugated by some evil influence who thereby learned of Victoria? After all, she was taken from school and the south node of the Moon is in Leo (children, schools). Of course, Ceres may be a childless woman who seizes someone else's little girl to be her own. One thing I intend to sit and contemplate: the abductor walked the little girl very briskly & purposefully. It was a certain gait, not fearful with twists and skips, just too fast to go far. Was there a waiting car or an open door to a building then?

One feature of Victoria's Last Seen chart that grabs you is Jupiter ruling H. 5 but conjunct the Part of Fortune. Again, the money angle! Then we are the audience for this strange limo adventure and it is all about money. I feel like a cat who is having its fur rubbed the wrong way. As the police have said, there is already their official police reward waiting, so what is this Toronto money? What? The Last Seen Jupiter-Part of Fortune is in post #20, page (1.)

I did not understand that the hotel guest WAS a woman. In the interview I saw, Tara would not answer as to the gender of the ransom donor.

tsalta
04-29-2009, 05:23 PM
Respectfully snipped by me: Thanks for your insight and being on the ground in Woodstock. One question that I have that you may know the answer to: How tall is Tara (Tori's mother)? The 401 is very close isn't it - would make for a straight line to Toronto. Praying that Tori is safe but as the days go by it is getting more difficult. Please if you know how tall Tara is that would be very helpful.

I believe in a news press when Tara was asked to comment on her compared likeness to the sketch, she replied that makes me laugh, she is 19 -25 y/o 125lbs and 5'2" I am 30 y/o 175 lbs and 5'9" tall. sorry not a direct quote just what i remember reading and hearing.

Hope this helps

Oldsoul2
04-29-2009, 07:17 PM
One feature of Victoria's Last Seen chart that grabs you is Jupiter ruling H. 5 but conjunct the Part of Fortune. Again, the money angle! Then we are the audience for this strange limo adventure and it is all about money. I feel like a cat who is having its fur rubbed the wrong way. As the police have said, there is already their official police reward waiting, so what is this Toronto money? What? The Last Seen Jupiter-Part of Fortune is in post #20, page (1.)

I did not understand that the hotel guest WAS a woman. In the interview I saw, Tara would not answer as to the gender of the ransom donor.

Quoted by Dianebs
On Citytv tonight, Tara has a very bizarre story of how a limo came came down the street (reports on other side in plain view but didn't see the limo) and the limo driver told her that his boss wanted to meet with her. So Tara goes with him .. reporters oblivious to see the limo drive away and takes her to a hotel near an airport where she goes to the top floor and meets this very wealthy lady. The lady had a missing daughter that was murdered and she showed Tara her daughter's blonde hair. Tara noted that it looked the same colour as Tori's. No this anonymous woman says that she is willing to pay any price to the person who has Tori for Tori's return. Apparently this wealthy lady flew into Toronto.

I still feel there is a wealthy man involved somewhere in this scenerio...hiding in the backdrop, his own desires to be filled, don't know but that's my hunch. This woman that flew in, WHY...I would love to think that there are still people that are very wealthy and want to help but if this is about ransom which I don't think it is......it could be millions that someone could ask for, what is the motivation of this woman? If this posiible man has money and summoned her would that show in the charts maybe as the connection of money that you are seeing?

Tuba
04-29-2009, 08:16 PM
She said the "anonymous person" wanted nothing disclosed, but from what she told the reporter in your message, she at first did say it was a woman. I was never sure that Tara was talking about only one person. Thank you for providing more information.

elepher50
04-30-2009, 12:05 AM
Astros all: I have a birthdate (confirmed) for Rodney Stafford - Tori's father. Would this be useful and do you still want it?

butterfly1978
04-30-2009, 03:40 AM
Hey guys I recieved a PM giving R Stafford's birthday

Rodney was born on August 28, 1975

Victoria was born in Woodstock, Ontario, on July 15, 2000 at Woodstock General Hospital. I do not know the exact time...

I ran his chart but as you guys know I am just learning but I think you expert Astros might wanna take a look, if I am reading it right it seems to be well worth looking into.

doubletrouble
04-30-2009, 10:18 AM
during yesterdays presser...rodney confirmed that he infact heard the man on the message...so it is confirmed....it is a wealthy man, not a woman....just thought id add this to astro thread as well as main tori thread

doubletrouble
04-30-2009, 10:59 AM
confirmation from w.s.r that wealthy donor is a man
Rodney Stafford, Tori's father, indicated he had listened to the message on one of the two contact telephone numbers provided by the mysterious benefactor. Stafford said the message, spoken in a man's voice, promised that an account would be set up "safely and anonymously" for the abductor upon Tori's safe return. Describing the situation as something "out of a movie," Stafford said the message sounded "realistic."

astros...jon benets dad? just wonderin out loud

FifthEssence
04-30-2009, 11:01 AM
Hey guys I recieved a PM giving R Stafford's birthday

Rodney was born on August 28, 1975

Victoria was born in Woodstock, Ontario, on July 15, 2000 at Woodstock General Hospital. I do not know the exact time...

I ran his chart but as you guys know I am just learning but I think you expert Astros might wanna take a look, if I am reading it right it seems to be well worth looking into.

Thanks Butterfly for the father's b'date. Can we get a confirmation on this date? A link?

You'll note a Sunrise Chart was already done for Victoria(TORI) in post #1 of this thread.

Oldsoul2
04-30-2009, 11:18 AM
during yesterdays presser...rodney confirmed that he infact heard the man on the message...so it is confirmed....it is a wealthy man, not a woman....just thought id add this to astro thread as well as main tori thread

snipped from previous post:
I still feel there is a wealthy man involved somewhere in this scenerio...hiding in the backdrop, his own desires to be filled, don't know but that's my hunch.

Wow, she needs to be CAREFUL! Something is wrong with this picture, there's is a possible motif to deter, we're not talking about a case of child's play! Tuba.....Soulscape...what's going on here? Do you see secrets or alternative motifs in the chart?

nursebeeme
04-30-2009, 11:24 AM
could anything of interest be gleaned by doing an event chart for the limo ride? I agree with Tuba that I feel like a cat being rubbed the wrong way on this whole limo deal!

elepher50
04-30-2009, 01:10 PM
Thanks Butterfly for the father's b'date. Can we get a confirmation on this date? A link?

You'll note a Sunrise Chart was already done for Victoria(TORI) in post #1 of this thread.

Hi FifthEssence, I have confirmed to Soulscape, Tuba, and Butterfly via pm a private message I rec'd confirming the b-date - will pm you the same information after I get home from work - my apologies for missing you on the pm list. I just don't want the private message I rec'd published on the internet....stay tuned you will have it in a little bit. Again, my apologies.

FifthEssence
04-30-2009, 01:41 PM
snipped from previous post:
I still feel there is a wealthy man involved somewhere in this scenerio...hiding in the backdrop, his own desires to be filled, don't know but that's my hunch.

Wow, she needs to be CAREFUL! Something is wrong with this picture, there's is a possible motif to deter, we're not talking about a case of child's play! Tuba.....Soulscape...what's going on here? Do you see secrets or alternative motifs in the chart?

Old Soul, I refer you to the 1st post in this thread from SOULSCAPE with the Last Seen Chart.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3627640&postcount=1

"The LAST SEEN chart for this event is highly complicated. There is an intercepted 4/10 parental axis. The 1st House person has a secret agenda because the same sign is on both the 12th & 1st Houses. The benefic Fixed Star REGULUS associated with victory and success conjuncts ASCENDANT.

FifthEssence
04-30-2009, 02:03 PM
could anything of interest be gleaned by doing an event chart for the limo ride? I agree with Tuba that I feel like a cat being rubbed the wrong way on this whole limo deal!


The 'ride' by LE has NOT been confirmed. It was reported they all got together at the police station, but I have NOT been able to find a news report confirming LE went w/her to Toronto, although it was rumored somehwere in the main forum thread there was a caravan of LE heading out to Toronto.

I find it interesting, no reports have come through nor has LE said they 'spoke' w/her bf or the girl friend that went with her.

Is there a link that confirms this 'ride' by LE to Toronto? Or are you talking about the ride Tara took last Thursday?

All we know thus far is Tara telling the story about the limo ride SHE took.

butterfly1978
05-01-2009, 12:11 AM
The 'ride' by LE has NOT been confirmed. It was reported they all got together at the police station, but I have NOT been able to find a news report confirming LE went w/her to Toronto, although it was rumored somehwere in the main forum thread there was a caravan of LE heading out to Toronto.

I find it interesting, no reports have come through nor has LE said they 'spoke' w/her bf or the girl friend that went with her.

Is there a link that confirms this 'ride' by LE to Toronto? Or are you talking about the ride Tara took last Thursday?

All we know thus far is Tara telling the story about the limo ride SHE took.
All I can confirm is that I recieved the birthday in a PM

justbetweenus
05-01-2009, 01:33 AM
I recall somewhere in one of the posts an astro was wondering about a couple dates concerning Tori's abduction. One was Valentines, and the other was family day. I had taken a few notes from TM's FB and she mentions spending valentines day at home with her family. Now family day she says she had a blast spending the day with her kids and her mother at the dog park. Just wondering if this might help?

dianebs
05-01-2009, 08:00 AM
I'm wondering if in the charts can anyone see if Tori will be found in the next week or two? There is a ride for Tori tomorrow. Tara is doing this to raise money for her personal needs she says. But, I feel this is the money that is needed to give to the people who took her. Another account has been set up and she has her name on it as well as someone else, and says she needs $5000.

Now, I remember that in the charts that a ring of people could be involved. I don't remember where I read it, but I did read that her boyfriend was involved in a gang. Now, also years ago, before James was with Tara, he was arrested in a drug raid that involved arresting 16 people. That is a big drug raid for here, with that many people involved.

Another note, that was brought to my attention. 6 people from the Bandito gang were murdered execution style near Woodstock on April 8th about 2 years ago .. this is the same day two years later Tori went missing. And the trial started in London Ontario April 6th, this year.

I'm wondering if this is all gang related.

People have questioned Tara her motive for the Ride for Tori which she is doing tomorrow and even the father's family have publicly said they were against it.

I believe the entire limo story and meeting with a wealthy person is all made up by Tara. I think she is setting up the situation in which she will say a ransom has been demanded and will find Tori. This all to do with the gang that wants the money for whatever reason.

Even a reporter went door to door in the neighbourhood asking if anyone saw the limo and no one saw it.

A veteran Toronto LE (not involved in the case) says the story is totally unbelievable in his 27 years of experience.

Would like some Astro's opinions. Thank you.

Tuba
05-01-2009, 09:33 AM
Lack of consistency is glaring. At a press invitation last week, T.M. said she would not and had not sought any money, particularly for herself but even for the children; that it had been collected by others. Now, according to the above report, she wants $5,000 and seeks to meet personal needs.

Circumstances do change but when your whole posture on an issue reverses itself, you need to provide a FULL explanation.

Oldsoul2
05-01-2009, 12:34 PM
Family of Tori Stafford Press Conference 1 p.m. LIVE
Posted 1 hour ago


We will carry live streaming of the daily 1 p.m. press conference held at the Frances Street home of Tara McDonald, mother of missing eight-year-old Tori Stafford.

Oldsoul2
05-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Updated Article on the "offered money" for Tori's safe return

http://woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1543285

elepher50
05-01-2009, 03:50 PM
I recall somewhere in one of the posts an astro was wondering about a couple dates concerning Tori's abduction. One was Valentines, and the other was family day. I had taken a few notes from TM's FB and she mentions spending valentines day at home with her family. Now family day she says she had a blast spending the day with her kids and her mother at the dog park. Just wondering if this might help?

I can only find one dog park in Woodstock so far:
Woodstock Dog Park - Address: Henry and Butler Streets
hours: Closes at 8 p.m., fenced: yes, parking: yes. fenced: yes, tables: yes
benches: yes, poopbags: yes.
This is 1km from the Frances Street address.

ChaChaCha
05-01-2009, 11:02 PM
Thank you to TurboCharger for all the hard work!

Now we have a place for facts and links that we can all refer to!



Okay, Chachacha, I started a new thread for only known FACTS and LINKS related to this case here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

I am working on bringing over the links from the other threads.

FUNNYGIRL101
05-03-2009, 12:20 AM
I'm wondering if in the charts can anyone see if Tori will be found in the next week or two? There is a ride for Tori tomorrow. Tara is doing this to raise money for her personal needs she says. But, I feel this is the money that is needed to give to the people who took her. Another account has been set up and she has her name on it as well as someone else, and says she needs $5000.

Now, I remember that in the charts that a ring of people could be involved. I don't remember where I read it, but I did read that her boyfriend was involved in a gang. Now, also years ago, before James was with Tara, he was arrested in a drug raid that involved arresting 16 people. That is a big drug raid for here, with that many people involved.

Another note, that was brought to my attention. 6 people from the Bandito gang were murdered execution style near Woodstock on April 8th about 2 years ago .. this is the same day two years later Tori went missing. And the trial started in London Ontario April 6th, this year.

I'm wondering if this is all gang related.

People have questioned Tara her motive for the Ride for Tori which she is doing tomorrow and even the father's family have publicly said they were against it.

I believe the entire limo story and meeting with a wealthy person is all made up by Tara. I think she is setting up the situation in which she will say a ransom has been demanded and will find Tori. This all to do with the gang that wants the money for whatever reason.

Even a reporter went door to door in the neighbourhood asking if anyone saw the limo and no one saw it.

A veteran Toronto LE (not involved in the case) says the story is totally unbelievable in his 27 years of experience.

Would like some Astro's opinions. Thank you.

The murders of the 8 Bandido members was April 8, 2006 .. THREE years ago.

JG was busted along with many others in a drug roundup in 2004.

JG is suspected of being a witness in the trial currently ongoing in London, Ontario.

Is this a message for him to "forget" everything he knows. Likely.

Tuba
05-03-2009, 01:18 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/LimoRideATale049.jpg

This is the horoscope for Tara M.'s report to the press and public that she, in a party, had been driven to Toronto by limousine to meet a secret benefactor.

siestalola
05-03-2009, 01:32 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/LimoRideATale049.jpg

This is the horoscope for Tara M.'s report to the press and public that she, in a party, had been driven to Toronto by limousine to meet a secret benefactor.

Thank you for all of your hard work, I appreciate your time and knowledge.

I don't know how all of this works but, could you run a chart for TM approximately 3-4 am on the night Tori disappeared? In other words about 10 hours later than 6:06 pm

Siestalola

nursebeeme
05-03-2009, 02:05 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/LimoRideATale049.jpg

This is the horoscope for Tara M.'s report to the press and public that she, in a party, had been driven to Toronto by limousine to meet a secret benefactor.
thank you Tuba! Why am I not surprised at your chart? (just as I figured)

butterfly1978
05-03-2009, 04:26 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/LimoRideATale049.jpg

This is the horoscope for Tara M.'s report to the press and public that she, in a party, had been driven to Toronto by limousine to meet a secret benefactor.

Tuba, The chart done for Taras press confrence says alot.
How signifigant do you think it is that the south node is in the 12 house, from what I know the South node is your nature under stressful situation being in the 12 house of deception, things done in secret and self undoing? and the opposing north node in the 6th house of health.....
Are you concerned that all this could lead Tara to commit suicide?
I also find it very telling Saturn and part of fortune in the 2nd house.
Am I correct with the assumtion that the 2nd house being the conciousness of money and Saturn and POF being in this house all of this is over money?

Oldsoul2
05-03-2009, 06:44 PM
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/LimoRideATale049.jpg

This is the horoscope for Tara M.'s report to the press and public that she, in a party, had been driven to Toronto by limousine to meet a secret benefactor.

Finally the truth!.....Thanks Tuba, this matter has been debatable on this thread for awhile. There always has to be common sense factored into some of these cases. I just couldn't see someone else paying for a child they don't even know.....especially when they have the grief of the loss of their own....now the question is "why did she lie" what is the point...your child is missing and your deterring LE with false information? Hhmmm

dianebs
05-03-2009, 07:01 PM
Does anyone know James Goris birth date? I'm just wondering if a chart has ever been done on him.

If James Goris could possibly be a witness at this big gang murder trial that is going on right now in London and the fact that Tori disappeared 3 years to the day of this big gang murders .. wouldn't this be a good cause for her disappearance. I would think the OPP would be well aware of this.

Do we have his birth date?

dianebs
05-03-2009, 07:10 PM
Finally the truth!.....Thanks Tuba, this matter has been debatable on this thread for awhile. There always has to be common sense factored into some of these cases. I just couldn't see someone else paying for a child they don't even know.....especially when they have the grief of the loss of their own....now the question is "why did she lie" what is the point...your child is missing and your deterring LE with false information? Hhmmm

My theory for why she lied .. money is owed .. possibly drug money. She doesn't have the brains .. and makes up this bizarre story that can be verified to the 'T' by the LE .. to let the abductors know money is available.

She then has a bike ride that has over 300 participants and has another trust fund in her name set up .. money put in.

Next story she will come up with is the abductor will call and say they want money and will tell her where Tori is. Once money is given she will let police know or she will go to find Tori.

Then Tori is found. But, Tara and James will be arrested for there part.

Tuba
05-04-2009, 10:32 AM
dianebs, we don't have the Goris information but IF you can catch him in a significant action, we can base a chart on that moment. For instance, if he took the afternoon press invitation instead of Tara one day or if he left to testify in the London trial or if he alone reported a piece of evidence to police, those moments should be recorded & charted. They would reveal even more than a birth chart on him, which actually might not say much. Keep an eye skinned for news of J. Goris!

dianebs
05-04-2009, 01:30 PM
dianebs, we don't have the Goris information but IF you can catch him in a significant action, we can base a chart on that moment. For instance, if he took the afternoon press invitation instead of Tara one day or if he left to testify in the London trial or if he alone reported a piece of evidence to police, those moments should be recorded & charted. They would reveal even more than a birth chart on him, which actually might not say much. Keep an eye skinned for news of J. Goris!

Thanks Tuba, I am looking for something with him.

I'm hoping the below articles with dates will be good enough, if not I will keep looking.

Date: April 15, 2009

http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Family+missing+girl+faces+growing+ordeal/1499009/story.html

McDonald and boyfriend Goris sought to quash some of the talk Wednesday as they dismissed rumours Tori's disappearance was linked to a drug debt.

"It's not true. We don't owe people money and there is no reason for anyone to steal our girl," Goris said.


Date: April 15, and 28, 2009 appearance in court

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/618861

James Goris, 31, along with two co-accused, made their third appearance in court on charges of possession under $5,000.

Court documents show that the three, who are charged with possession of a stolen snowblower, are scheduled to return to court April 28.

Tuba
05-04-2009, 05:37 PM
The April 15 court appearance will work but we need to know at least what time court convened FOR THAT CASE or what time defendants were called by the bailiff. We have been able to find those times in the Anthony case, so I hope it is possible in Ontario.

butterfly, absolutely T. M. is very worried about money, with Saturn in H. 2 but also squaring the Moon worsening by the minute. I am interested in your concern about suicide. I had not even considered that, judging from her demeanor. I think you were v. profound in your comments about South Node of the Moon in H. 12--terrific!

dianebs
05-04-2009, 06:49 PM
Tuba, I have no clue in how to find out what time the court convened for that case. I do not believe that kind of thing is available online here in Canada. The only way to find out is being at the court at the time it happened. Unfortunately I cannot find much about the court case.

butterfly1978
05-05-2009, 02:26 AM
The April 15 court appearance will work but we need to know at least what time court convened FOR THAT CASE or what time defendants were called by the bailiff. We have been able to find those times in the Anthony case, so I hope it is possible in Ontario.

butterfly, absolutely T. M. is very worried about money, with Saturn in H. 2 but also squaring the Moon worsening by the minute. I am interested in your concern about suicide. I had not even considered that, judging from her demeanor. I think you were v. profound in your comments about South Node of the Moon in H. 12--terrific!
Thanks you Tuba, I am really trying so hard to learn this stuff, and I am scared to ask for fear I'll be wrong, and you guys have such a great track record, you are so accurate.
The reason I was asking about the importance of the North Node in the 6th house of Health and possible suicide , is because the South node being in the 12th house we see the kind of life Tara has lead, her nature so to speak, her tendencies and where she will retreat to in stressful situations, from what I know the south node is the Achilles Heel. It is one of the weakest spots, and its placement in the chart point to many things such as drugs, alcohol, psychological problems, sedition, assassination, and suicide. the north node being Karmatic, and identififing self, present and future paths in the 6th house of health, I am wondering if this could possibly mean that Tara could try and commit suiside. Retreating to drugs, alchol or even suicide, and taking with her anything that she may know about Tori, I am probably reading this totally wrong and if so I do apologize.
As you can tell I am not really good at articulating what I am trying to say thats why I dont express my opinion much in here. I hope this makes since.

Oldsoul2
05-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Thanks you Tuba, I am really trying so hard to learn this stuff, and I am scared to ask for fear I'll be wrong, and you guys have such a great track record, you are so accurate.
The reason I was asking about the importance of the North Node in the 6th house of Health and possible suicide , is because the South node being in the 12th house we see the kind of life Tara has lead, her nature so to speak, her tendencies and where she will retreat to in stressful situations, from what I know the south node is the Achilles Heel. It is one of the weakest spots, and its placement in the chart point to many things such as drugs, alcohol, psychological problems, sedition, assassination, and suicide. the north node being Karmatic, and identififing self, present and future paths in the 6th house of health, I am wondering if this could possibly mean that Tara could try and commit suiside. Retreating to drugs, alchol or even suicide, and taking with her anything that she may know about Tori, I am probably reading this totally wrong and if so I do apologize.
As you can tell I am not really good at articulating what I am trying to say thats why I dont express my opinion much in here. I hope this makes since.

Hi Butterfly,

I'm not an astrologer and can't read charts but from my previous posts and not to sound repetitive I have strong instinct about this case, the mother's thoughts of suicide if they don't find her daughter is something I have very much felt and when I just read your post I would assume that you are correct in your chart analysis..let's wait and see what the astros say..I think your dead on

dianebs
05-05-2009, 02:42 PM
That would be so tragic if Tara did commit suicide, for Daryn. Look at all he's dealing with as it is.

butterfly1978
05-05-2009, 02:54 PM
Guys, I am seriously learning just learning astrology. I am not saying that Tara would commit suicide. I was asking if thats what the other astrologers see, if I am reading it right. I am just asking please do not take itas anything other than a question, because I am no where near claiming to understand all of astrology. I have only been studying astrology since December. These guys, Soulscape, Tuba, housemouse have been doing it for years..
I was only asking if they see it to be a possability, but you also have to keep in mind this chart was done for an event based on the press confrence Tara gave about the Limo ride and if she was telling the truth, I just tried to see if I could see anything other than just that from the chart. Until it is validated by one of the real astros please just take it as a question, and nothing more.
Thanks!!

Tuba
05-05-2009, 04:30 PM
I joined the Woodstock Courts forum, so we may eventually learn what time the criminal cases are called on Tuesday. Just keep Js. Goris in mind and you may see some mention of him in the news and then we can go to work.

dianebs
05-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Tuba, can you give a link for the forum. Thanks, Diane

Tuba
05-05-2009, 06:26 PM
Sure, here it is:

http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca

I have the feeling that court convenes in the morning at a regular time. Just as in the U.S., criminal court meets on Tuesdays. Maybe someone who is enough involved to be a member and who lives there will give us that time. Good luck!

elepher50
05-05-2009, 07:24 PM
Astros all: There is a ton of stuff going on right now - too much to keep up with for sure. Just a simple question: Have any of you had an opportunity to run a chart of Rodney Stafford (Tori's biological dad) based on the birthdate supplied. Honestly I am not pushing - not the type - just thinking that maybe with every case that is open right now that there simply has not been time to do anything with it?

Justice07
05-05-2009, 09:05 PM
Sure, here it is:

http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca

I have the feeling that court convenes in the morning at a regular time. Just as in the U.S., criminal court meets on Tuesdays. Maybe someone who is enough involved to be a member and who lives there will give us that time. Good luck!

Hey there! I do believe that court convenes at 10:00 am in Ontario. However I do not know what time Js. Goris would have appeared before the judge. Usually there are a number of cases on a list that the court will address for the day and they simply go down the list. Hope this helps :)

Tuba
05-05-2009, 09:13 PM
Thank you, Justice. That is the way procedure is handled in the States, too. I was hoping there might have been so few crimes in Woodstock that the snowblowers would have been the only defendants calendared. But 10:00 a.m. E.D.S.T. gives us a platform to work from. Of course there is also the problem of separating him from his co-defendants. I think this can be done & I will look into it. Thanks again.