Melissa Huckaby and the Unthinkable Sex Object

[Cherokee]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debora..._b_188921.html

Melissa Huckaby and the Unthinkable Sex Object

Deborah KingPosted April 20, 2009 | 12:19 PM (EST)

As horrifying as the murder of an 8-year-old is, the truly unimaginable aspect of the Melissa Huckaby case, for most people, is her use of a foreign object to rape Sandra Cantu. How could a woman, a mom (!), do this to a little girl? How . . . why . . . with what kind of an object? It's unfathomable, hard to think about, dark, evil. The only "safe" conclusion is that the woman must be insane. In fact, along with other experts, I doubt if Huckaby is insane. And as I know both from personal experience and from working with many abused women, rape with a foreign object is not as unusual as one would like to think.
More...

[cinsbythesea]

What courage for her to have written this article. Thanks for posting it Cherokee- a great read and very informative. Hopefully she's right about the possible insanity plea not flying...

[goofeegyrl]

Thank you for posting this, I just read it and was coming over here to post it myself. This is so well written and I hope everyone keeping up on this case reads the article.

[lngrid]

Cherokee, you're such an inspiration. Thank you so much or posting and sharing. It's so comforting to find people like you, especially when we have to find out about the MH's of the world.

[nursebeeme]

Huckaby's attorney, Deputy Public Defender Samuel Behar, professed to have no knowledge of the case when contacted by ABCNews.com, but a court document filed by Behar Thursday indicated the request was based on the deputy district attorney's belief that Sandra had suffered "genital trauma consistent with forcible penetration (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=7321954&page=1)."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7382002&page=1

found this in an abc article... a little more insight into the "unthinkable sex object"

[SeriouslySearching]

Cherokee~ We aren't allowed to posts articles in their entirety. We normally only post the important part (paragraph or two) and the link so people can go to the site to read it.

Thanks for posting the article. It is an interesting take on things even if I happen to disagree with some of it.

[Kat]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7382002&page=1

found this in an abc article... a little more insight into the "unthinkable sex object"

Indeed nurse, it does offer more insight into the "unthinkable sex object". Thank you very much.

About the OP:

I have to admit that when I read the article posted in the OP, the phrase that struck me most were "Sexual molestation is not so much about sex as it's about power. Rape, with or without a foreign object, is an act that disempowers the victim..."

The rest of the article in the OP while written with passion and from the reference point of being once a victim, is what I believe to be the writer's personal opinions.

There are a great many posters here, that have not only been victims of crimes and victims of violent crimes but many have also experienced sexual molestation and I, personally, think it's insulting to suggest that they experienced where "somehow sexual titillation got linked" to the object or to the act of molestation. I call BS, from a very personal perspective.

That leads me to Nursie's article that she posted:

I have great difficulty reconciling the last known video of Sandra, spinning her arms, skipping in the sunshine -- with the descriptive words and phrases of what "genital trauma consistent with forcible penetration." really means to a 45 pound 8 yr old little girl. Along with the phrase above we read the words, "vaginal tearing or lacerations".

No I'm sorry but my personal opinion is that after I think those thoughts through, no way---no how---do I have any room for sympathy in my heart for MH. Just my humble opinion.

[goofeegyrl]

respectfully snipped:

The rest of the article in the OP while written with passion and from the reference point of being once a victim, is what I believe to be the writer's personal opinions.

There are a great many posters here, that have not only been victims of crimes and victims of violent crimes but many have also experienced sexual molestation and I, personally, think it's insulting to suggest that they experienced where "somehow sexual titillation got linked" to the object or to the act of molestation. I call BS, from a very personal perspective.


Yes, this was from a blogger on HuffPost, I read it there this morning.

However, it is true that in *many* cases, "sexual titillation", as stated, can be linked to abuse in the past. For example, many people into S&M were abused as kids.

I was a victim of sexual abuse as a child, but I'm not insulted by what she says. It has not been my experience, but I would bet $ that it is the experience of many. I have studied/ read a lot on this subject as well.

Many here are angry about abuse being brought up in MH's history, whereas I think it's important to note, just so that OTHER people can be helped from the knowledge. Obviously, she's a lost cause.

Someone here said in a post last week, I apologize if this is not word for word:

Most people who were abused do not become abusers.
Most abusers were abused.

[Kat]

I appreciate your candor and opinion goofeegirl, as a victim myself also, I am insulted. But that is my own opinion.

[goofeegyrl]

I appreciate your candor and opinion goofeegirl, as a victim myself also, I am insulted. But that is my own opinion.

Thank you. One of the reasons that I responded to your post is that I knew from reading WS that I would be able to give my opinion and just let it be, and you would accept it as such and not attack me, as I was not attacking you.
:blowkiss:

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, this was from a blogger on HuffPost, I read it there this morning.

However, it is true that in *many* cases, "sexual titillation", as stated, can be linked to abuse in the past. For example, many people into S&M were abused as kids.

I was a victim of sexual abuse as a child, but I'm not insulted by what she says. It has not been my experience, but I would bet $ that it is the experience of many. I have studied/ read a lot on this subject as well.

Many here are angry about abuse being brought up in MH's history, whereas I think it's important to note, just so that OTHER people can be helped from the knowledge. Obviously, she's a lost cause.

Someone here said in a post last week, I apologize if this is not word for word:

Most people who were abused do not become abusers.
Most abusers were abused.

I certainly respect your opinion, goofee, that you think when women do sexual acts against children it is because they were abused.

However I don't believe that is true. I think women don't have to have abuse in their lives to become an sexual deviant that preys on small children.

This is an except of one of the links in the "female pedophilia" thread.

Sex Offenders or Pedophiles.
"Approximately 15% to 25% of women and 5% to 15% of men were sexually abused when they were children.[11][12][13][14][15] Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles or cousins; around 60% are other acquaintances such as friends of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases. Most child sexual abuse is committed by men; women commit approximately 14% of offenses reported against boys and 6% of offenses reported against girls.[11] Most offenders who abuse pre-pubescent children are pedophiles,[16][17] however a small percentage do not meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia.[18]

"Under the law, "child sexual abuse" is an umbrella term describing criminal and civil offenses in which an adult engages in sexual activity with a minor or exploits a minor for the purpose of sexual gratification.[19][4] The American Psychiatric Association."

I think most child sexual predators have a lustful urge and an insatiable desire to rape and molest children. I think more often it is about control over someone vulnerable, and the power they hold over them, rather than lashing out because they may have been abused in the past.

So I just don't think that most who abuse were abused. Somehow their wiring is wrong and they gain much pleasure from having sex or doing sexual acts with young children. It is the acts with these children that spurs their lust and that is why they are the dregs of our society.

As a survivor of childhood abuse I do not believe that all people who sexually abuse young babies and children were abused themselves. Simply imo they are sexual deviants. Now I do believe that there is a minority who claim they were abused that do go on and abuse but like everyone else, they too had choices in life, but chose to stay on the side of darkness instead of following the light out of the darkness into the sunlight.

imoo

[zadari]

there are lots of people who never were abused that become abusers too .. and i have been raped before when i was a child turning teen and i was raped by someone who had never been beaten abused or raped by another man .. i certainly didnt and dont want to reclaim any power by hurting another child .. just the mere thought of a child going through what i did makes me want to vomit .. i think its how sick in the head the individual is and what they decide they are gonna do about it .. get help or make another thier victim ..either she is covering for a man that did it and he is threatening the life of her child if she tells or she did it and needs the DP

[oceanblueeyes]

there are lots of people who never were abused that become abusers too .. and i have been raped before when i was a child turning teen and i was raped by someone who had never been beaten abused or raped by another man .. i certainly didn't and don't want to reclaim any power by hurting another child .. just the mere thought of a child going through what i did makes me want to vomit .. i think its how sick in the head the individual is and what they decide they are gonna do about it .. get help or make another their victim ..either she is covering for a man that did it and he is threatening the life of her child if she tells or she did it and needs the DP

I totally agree. All I have ever wanted ....was to love, honor and respect our five beautiful children. I would cut my own throat before I ever hurt any of them or any child. I may have been too overprotective at times but I darn sure have shown them the love and respect they all deserve every minute of their lives.

I have read many articles where it said most serial killers weren't abused as children.

I don't think there is a logical reason to explain the pedophile and why they are the way they are. All I know is they are the most vile, depraved, sadistic, disgusting monsters put on the earth destroying innocent vulnerable children's lives and leaving them shattered to pick up the pieces.

imo

[Salem]

~my bold~http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debora..._b_188921.html

Melissa Huckaby and the Unthinkable Sex Object

Deborah KingPosted April 20, 2009 | 12:19 PM (EST)

As horrifying as the murder of an 8-year-old is, the truly unimaginable aspect of the Melissa Huckaby case, for most people, is her use of a foreign object to rape Sandra Cantu. How could a woman, a mom (!), do this to a little girl? How . . . why . . . with what kind of an object? It's unfathomable, hard to think about, dark, evil. The only "safe" conclusion is that the woman must be insane. In fact, along with other experts, I doubt if Huckaby is insane. And as I know both from personal experience and from working with many abused women, rape with a foreign object is not as unusual as one would like to think.

Let me explain. Sexual molestation is not so much about sex as it's about power. Rape, with or without a foreign object, is an act that disempowers the victim so the rapist can somehow reclaim the power/integrity that was stolen from them at some previous time. The rapist may not remember the physical, emotional and/or sexual abuse he or she suffered as a child. It may be buried deep in the psyche. The person never deals with the trauma, never clears the deep shame and humiliation and fear that were the legacy of the abuse, and so may be at risk to repeat the behavior they learned.

I am in no way suggesting that Melissa Huckaby shouldn't be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for what she did nor am I justifying anyone's behavior on the basis they were once abused. I'm simply trying to help people understand the dynamics of rape with a foreign object and shed light on a very hidden topic. It's a very under-reported crime because the victim is so helpless and humiliated. More...

So is this person saying every rapist was at one time abused? The statistics don't support that. Only about 25% of men and 15% of women were abused. That's from the recent articles in the "women who abuse" thread. (See post 11 above - thank you OBE) I don't believe what Huffington is saying - and I don't think MH was abused - except in her own mind.

Salem

PS - Cherokee - I do appreciate your posting the article. Thank you. :)

[oceanblueeyes]

~my bold~

So is this person saying every rapist was at one time abused? The statistics don't support that. Only about 25% of men and 15% of women were abused. That's from the recent articles in the "women who abuse" thread. (See post 11 above - thank you OBE) I don't believe what Huffington is saying - and I don't think MH was abused - except in her own mind.

Salem

PS - Cherokee - I do appreciate your posting the article. Thank you. :)

I tend to look at articles with a critical eye if it is on a feminist site, which I feel Huffy is one. They seem to always want to paint the female as having some excuse why they do depraved evil acts. While the article was interesting and I am glad Cherokee linked it, I do not believe that most men or women pedophiles were abused and the stats just dont show that either.

I am like you....I don't think MH was abused.

imo

[txsvicki]

I'm another who doesn't believe that all sexual abusers were abused as children. Many people were and are sexually abused so it stands to reason that some who are caught would have been abused though. I also think that some of the convicted criminals are lying because they are psychopaths who want sympathy especially in the years after this defense became popular. For me to believe that Melissa was sexually abused by a relative is going to take a lot more proof from other siblings and relatives. And, most especially won't believe the repressed memory business.

[goofeegyrl]

I'm another who doesn't believe that all sexual abusers were abused as children. .

I'm willing to bet that nobody believes that all abusers were abused. ;)


I'm saddened to read that so many people think that everyone who is abused has no ill effects to the way they behave.

[Salem]

Oh goofeegyrl - I don't think so many people think that people who have been abused don't suffer ill effects. I think many of us would acknowledge that many bad decisions, drug and alcohol abuse, depression and anger issues do frequently result from abuse. There are many posters on this board that have survived the horror of abuse, physical, mental and sexual (love and blessings to them all!). However, I do think many posters here do not believe prior abuse is an excuse for abusing others and statistics have been posted to support that thought.

I also think it is a very important AFFIRMATION to all the survivors of abuse, that statistics show they are NOT likely to abuse others, or their children.

Salem

[adnoid]

...I'm saddened to read that so many people think that everyone who is abused has no ill effects to the way they behave.

I haven't seen that stated - where is this?

[zadari]

I'm willing to bet that nobody believes that all abusers were abused. ;)


I'm saddened to read that so many people think that everyone who is abused has no ill effects to the way they behave. no disrespect intended with my post so please i ask you dont take it that way .
you know what i do suffer ill effects even to this day .. dreams .. no sleep .. pain .reliving it .. BUT i NEVER blamed myself because im NOT the one who did it .. i had it done to ME ..the person who did it to me was the sick b*****rd (b@rd) with the issues .. that is the key dont blame yourself ever ..i know its easier said than done but if i can do it i feel anyone can ,im not a very strong person beleive it or not.. i was just a target because i was easy to get to he knew my family very well .. he chose to do this to me .. i hold him accountable not myself

[goofeegyrl]

I also think it is a very important AFFIRMATION to all the survivors of abuse, that statistics show they are NOT likely to abuse others, or their children.

Salem

I said that exact thing, in fact, I just went back to bold it. If people missed that, I understand the responses now. If not...


I am a victim of childhood sexual abuse. After working through some stuff, I have a loving husband, two great girls, am a Girl Scout Leader to both their troops, volunteer in their classrooms and organize events at the school....and so work with many kids. I have never had any desire to harm any kids....I am one of those of which you speak.

However, I can not understand how it is offensive to people to repeat that most people who are abused do not go on to be abusers....yet many abusers were abused. I get upset that so many immediately want to shoot down the idea that suffering atrocities as a child might make you a monster when you grow up.

Nor do I understand why people think that uncovering that abuse or other things might have happened to them in their lives might not be nice to know. Not ONCE in this whole conversation has anyone said MH should be let off the hook for what she did.

I want a better world for my kids, I want a better world for everyone. Being an ignorant society that does not learn from it's mistakes is not going to get us there.

[goofeegyrl]

no disrespect intended with my post so please i ask you dont take it that way .
you know what i do suffer ill effects even to this day .. dreams .. no sleep .. pain .reliving it .. BUT i NEVER blamed myself because im NOT the one who did it .. i had it done to ME ..the person who did it to me was the sick b*****rd (b@rd) with the issues .. that is the key dont blame yourself ever ..i know its easier said than done but if i can do it i feel anyone can ,im not a very strong person beleive it or not.. i was just a target because i was easy to get to he knew my family very well .. he chose to do this to me .. i hold him accountable not myself

Agreed. :blowkiss: I do not blame myself either, and for that I am thankful.

[Warof2010]

You have to admit that this area of the country comes up with some great cases. Tracy and Modesto are close to each other.

[goofeegyrl]

You have to admit that this area of the country comes up with some great cases. Tracy and Modesto are close to each other.

Nothing like CA!!!

Shout out to 95014!! I grew up in Cupertino :)

[Warof2010]

You have to admit that this area of the country comes up with some great cases. Tracy and Modesto are clsoe to each other.

[Cherokee]

I want to make clear to everyone that I did not post/link to the above article as an excuse for MH's actions. Even the author says possible childhood sexual abuse in no way excuses what MH did, nor does she say that all people who suffer sexual abuse go on to become abusers themselves.

My heart goes out to all, including the posters here, who suffered sexual abuse as a child. You are a survivor of something too horrible for most people to contemplate, and the life you have built, in spite of the trauma you've suffered, is a wonderful testament to how you have overcome a painful past and not visited it upon the next generation.

I want to repeat, not all people who are abused go on to become abusers. However, some who are abused DO become abusers themselves. In addition, as others have pointed out, there are those who sexually abuse others who were never abused themselves. The easy access to child pornography through the internet has created a section of our population who have become desensitized to the evil of sexual abuse. Children are dehumanized and become objects of gratification. In time, it's like a drug addict who needs bigger and more powerful hit. After viewing the images over and over, some develop a need to act on what they see in order to get the same gratification. In other words, they go from being passive viewers of molestation to active participants.

It is too simple, and a grave error, to say that the reason a person became a sexual abuser is because they were sexually abused themselves. I am not saying that, and I don't believe anyone here is saying that either. There are many other factors involved, and every individual is too complex for that to be true. As has been stated, many who have been abused do NOT go on to become abusers, and the very thought is abhorrent to them.

Many who survive sexual abuse go through a time of healing and are able to live a life full of love and compassion. Others fall into a downward spiral of self-loathing, drugs, and broken relationships. And then there are those who go on to revisit their own abuse on others. Everyone is different, and how they respond to the abuse in their lives is varied.

MH may, or may not, have suffered childhood sexual abuse. Either way, it does not excuse what she did to Sandra OR adequately explain it. Some people have a difficult time understanding how a female, and a mother, could do such a thing. The article above is relevant because it gives a possible explanation into one of the factors that could create such a mindset.

I appreciate all those here who understood my intent in posting the article. As someone who advocates for abused children, I know too well the horrors they suffer, and I would never excuse ANYONE, including MH, for committing such a terrible crime against an innocent child.

[goofeegyrl]

Many who survive sexual abuse go through a time of healing and are able to live a life full of love and compassion. Others fall into a downward spiral of self-loathing, drugs, and broken relationships. And then there are those who go on to revisit their own abuse on others. Everyone is different, and how they respond to the abuse in their lives is varied.

I appreciate all those here who understood my intent in posting the article.

Bolded, and snipped, a lot :)

Thank you so much for your well written comment.

[6angels]

As someone that was molisted for years I can honestly say those that abuse because they was abused is using a cop out. I am sorry but YOU have a choice to abuse or not to abuse. PERIOD you know right from wrong once your a adult ect. I get so sick of hearing ohhhhhh they was abused..... that explains why they abused XYz. UH No. you can either carry on the abuse your family has shown or pick your self up and break that Cycle. Thank God I made the choice to break it.

[Cherokee]

As someone that was molisted for years I can honestly say those that abuse because they was abused is using a cop out. I am sorry but YOU have a choice to abuse or not to abuse. PERIOD you know right from wrong once your a adult ect. I get so sick of hearing ohhhhhh they was abused..... that explains why they abused XYz. UH No. you can either carry on the abuse your family has shown or pick your self up and break that Cycle. Thank God I made the choice to break it.

And I am also thankful you made that choice.

My point is exactly what you said ... "you can either carry on the abuse your family has shown or pick your self up and break that Cycle."

Some do not make the same choice you did, and they "carry on the abuse" to another child. That's all I am saying. I am not condoning, or excusing, those who say they abuse because they were abused.

I will say it again - if HM was abused, it does not excuse what she did to Sandra Cantu, but it is a known fact that some who have been victims of sexual child abuse will, in turn, victimize others.

A possible explanation is NOT a possible excuse.

[Salem]

~ Respectfully snipped and bolded ~
My point is exactly what you said ... "you can either carry on the abuse your family has shown or pick your self up and break that Cycle."

Some do not make the same choice you did, and they "carry on the abuse" to another child. That's all I am saying. I am not condoning, or excusing, those who say they abuse because they were abused.

I will say it again - if HM was abused, it does not excuse what she did to Sandra Cantu, but it is a known fact that some who have been victims of sexual child abuse will, in turn, victimize others.

A possible explanation is NOT a possible excuse.

Also nice post above this one Cherokee. I hear what you are saying and it is something we as a society need to pay attention too. Some do go on to abuse - and it is important for society to figure out WHY. Once we know why, we can take better steps to prevent this from happening.

The other side of this coin, though is the "nature versus nuture" argument, which I personally find fascinating. Where do these other abusers come from and why? Just looking at KC Anthony - what happened to her? And Joe Duncan - it does not appear that he was abused but he was a monster beginning at a very early age. So many others, some of the most notorious with NO history of abuse in their backgrounds - where did they come from? Mind boggling.

Salem

[lne1970]

I think it was on Nancy Grace or something, where I saw that by definition, the "foreign object" is anything that is not a sex organ. So "rape with a foreign object" could be anything, including hands. Not trying to make it sound better or worse, but just want to put it out there that by law, this charge does not necessarily mean what we would think of as a "foreign object". I guess we'll know later on.

[kageykaren]

Upon hearing about Sandra's perpetrator it led me into investigating "Mothers who abuse sexually. This is a touchy taboo subject and one of many crimes not reported due to shame and not being believed by the adults they confide in. One organization that helps with the sexual abuse of girls by their mothers is called MDSA and stands for "Making Daughters Safe Again". This crime of mothers sexually abusing also effects males as well. The article is too long to post so I suggest googling this subject and you will be alittle closer to understanding how & why this happens. It appears to me that sweet Sandras perp. falls under this category of women.

[kageykaren]

I think it was on Nancy Grace or something, where I saw that by definition, the "foreign object" is anything that is not a sex organ. So "rape with a foreign object" could be anything, including hands. Not trying to make it sound better or worse, but just want to put it out there that by law, this charge does not necessarily mean what we would think of as a "foreign object". I guess we'll know later on.Girls that have reported their sexual abuse by a woman report that the abuse was much more forceful when using objects to rape and many are left with ongoing medical issues involving the vagina and rectom. So sad to read about this form of abuse and how it effects a childs soul for the rest of their lives. Keeping our daughters & sons safe from these perverted sick people is an ongoing & everlasting job of educating & advocating within the home and in our communities. Society has a difficult time accepting that what is supposed to be a nuturer is a pedophile. It seems to be all about power more than the sex act itself.

[lngrid]

As someone that was molisted for years I can honestly say those that abuse because they was abused is using a cop out.
Respectfully snipped by lngrid.
Thank God I made the choice to break it.
6angels, people like you are what keeps my faith in humanity alive. You're inspiring. Thank God for you.
:blowkiss::blowkiss:::blowkiss:
:clap::clap::clap: :clap::clap::clap: :clap::clap::clap:

[oceanblueeyes]

As someone that was molested for years I can honestly say those that abuse because they was abused is using a cop out. I am sorry but YOU have a choice to abuse or not to abuse. PERIOD you know right from wrong once your a adult ect. I get so sick of hearing ohhhhhh they was abused..... that explains why they abused XYz. UH No. you can either carry on the abuse your family has shown or pick your self up and break that Cycle. Thank God I made the choice to break it.

I find your statement profound, 6angels and this is exactly the way I look at it too.

Nothing infuriates :furious: me more when a criminal lamely tries to excuse their perverted actions away by saying past abuse was the cause. EVERY adult in life has free will, everyone in life makes their own choices and this IS the choice they and they alone made.

Abused victims can go on to be a part of the solution or they can go on to be a part of the problem for society's children. It is up to each individual and those who are the problem, who are sexual predators, are no better than their past abusers, and they should be dealt with harshly so that our society supports all of the children who have been victimized that crosses their destructive path.

But I am not sure the link to past childhood abuse and pedophile predators lies within an abusive past. Most who commit these type of sadistic crimes weren't abused at all. It has to be another common denominator that spawns these dregs of society.:waitasec: Maybe it is all about power and control over the weak. Maybe it is the twisted lust and urges of these monsters. I really don't know but to me they are pond scum who are sapping our children's lives and leaving them to deal with the abuse and the scars it leaves behind.

No past excuse of abuse will ever make this acceptable or understandable imo. For me when they try to blame others for their own wrongdoings is when I get so angry.

imo

[Cherokee]

For me when they try to blame others for their own wrongdoings is when I get so angry.

So do I.

[mysteriew]

Does previous sexual abuse excuse or justify a person becoming an abuser? I think we can all agree that it doesn't. But maybe, just maybe it might explain why the abuser took that step over the line.

Not everyone is born with the accepted heterosexual sex drive, we know that. Some are homosexual, some want/need other stimulation like S&M or bondage, some want/need fetishes. Are they born that way or are they made that way through childhood experiences? I personally think that it may be a combination of both. Some may have been born that way, but for some it may be learned behavior.

It is my understanding that some admitted pedofiles don't touch kids personally. They may look at porn, they may watch kids they know and fantasize, but they don't touch them. But some pedos do become abusers. So what makes the difference, what makes one person step over the line and not the other? Differences in personality may do it for some, learned behavior from childhood issues of abuse may do for another. For others maybe it is a build up, the fantasy builds up until they finally do something. But having an understanding about what makes a person step over that line could go a long way in helping to understand abusive behaviors. Not excuse them, not to make them acceptable just to understand them. Understanding not to make them more acceptable, but to maybe learn about what makes them a danger. And possibly if we knew what makes them dangerous, possibly we could how to fix it or at least if and who can be fixed.

Little hints they have given about MH makes me think that possibly she may have been abused herself. Hints at poor self esteem, mental health issues, things like that that often show up in adults who were abused as children. Does that give her the right to abuse others? Heck no! Does that give her the right to kill a child? H%&% no! Should that be a reason to not punish her for what she did? No! But perhaps, just perhaps if someone knew MH had been abused herself, if someone had known what the possibilities were- perhaps if people had been alert to this, had put this together with the other girl who had been abused then someone may have been looking at MH after the first time and perhaps could have prevented the second time which ended in Sandra's death.

The majority of people who were abused as children will be observant and very protective of their own children as well as other children they come into contact with. When a problem is discussed, they will be one of the first to question if a child was abused- because they are very aware of the possibilites and will be one of the first to recognize and admit it. Yet they wouldn't dream of abusing themselves. But a small minority will abuse. Why? What makes the difference? What leads one person to be more protective and another person to become abusers?

Until this case I wasn't aware of the statistics of female sexual abuse. Sorry to the men, but I more or less thought of sexual abuse as a problem with men. I apoligize for that men. From the reaction here, I don't think I was alone. This case brings out the female issues, and I welcome the ability to look at it, and question it. Not to excuse MH, but to maybe make me more aware.

[athy]

hearing a case like this sure makes you wonder if some of those unsolved sexually abused and murdered children were done by women. being LE was probably looking for a male and not a women.........

[Sweetie_PI]

Cherokee, Your post is a good timing to remind those here of the quintessential case from yesteryear: SYBIL. An off shoot of the Sybil (MPD/DID) phenomenon (she was horrifically raped and abused as a young girl) is the psychological phenomenon of Subtle Sybil. IMO this is MH. Doesn't excuse, as IMHO MPD/DID are aware when the executive persona comes back, and know right from wrong and check in with their help infrastructure.

[mysteriew]

I appreciate the reference to Sybil, but at this point we aren't hearing any references to multiple personality with MH. Sexual abuse can result in multiple personality for the child, but not all abused children get multiple personality. Abuse can result in many types of mental health problems. And I admit, we (including me) may be jumping the gun in that we (including me) haven't heard any confirmation that MH was ever sexually abused herself.

[oceanblueeyes]

hearing a case like this sure makes you wonder if some of those unsolved sexually abused and murdered children were done by women. being LE was probably looking for a male and not a women.........

I have thought about that so often since this case first unfolded.

imo

[kageykaren]

Dr. Phil show is about MH and her violent acts of sexual abuse. Very informative on the subject of women raping. There is a panel of specialist discussing the raity but also stateingt we have to educate childre aliitle more thorughly. I'm an advocate for internet porn crimes involving children and know as time goes forward these crimes become more prevalent as everything else that increases in time. Reach out to you internet for help in dicussing these issues with different age groups. Knowledge is power. Perps would love us to look the other way as many did in decades past. I have to keep the faith there are more of us educating ourselves in this arena than there are perpatrators. I'm probably wrong about that but my belief system is what keeps me going.

[azwriter]

I certainly respect your opinion, goofee, that you think when women do sexual acts against children it is because they were abused.

However I don't believe that is true. I think women don't have to have abuse in their lives to become an sexual deviant that preys on small children.

This is an except of one of the links in the "female pedophilia" thread.

Sex Offenders or Pedophiles.
"Approximately 15% to 25% of women and 5% to 15% of men were sexually abused when they were children.[11][12][13][14][15] Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles or cousins; around 60% are other acquaintances such as friends of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases. Most child sexual abuse is committed by men; women commit approximately 14% of offenses reported against boys and 6% of offenses reported against girls.[11] Most offenders who abuse pre-pubescent children are pedophiles,[16][17] however a small percentage do not meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia.[18]

"Under the law, "child sexual abuse" is an umbrella term describing criminal and civil offenses in which an adult engages in sexual activity with a minor or exploits a minor for the purpose of sexual gratification.[19][4] The American Psychiatric Association."

I think most child sexual predators have a lustful urge and an insatiable desire to rape and molest children. I think more often it is about control over someone vulnerable, and the power they hold over them, rather than lashing out because they may have been abused in the past.

So I just don't think that most who abuse were abused. Somehow their wiring is wrong and they gain much pleasure from having sex or doing sexual acts with young children. It is the acts with these children that spurs their lust and that is why they are the dregs of our society.

As a survivor of childhood abuse I do not believe that all people who sexually abuse young babies and children were abused themselves. Simply imo they are sexual deviants. Now I do believe that there is a minority who claim they were abused that do go on and abuse but like everyone else, they too had choices in life, but chose to stay on the side of darkness instead of following the light out of the darkness into the sunlight.

imoo

great post ocean. I agree and I'm glad to see your opinion and thoughts on this subject. Having a different point of view is what makes this site so worthwhile.
azwriter

[azwriter]

I totally agree. All I have ever wanted ....was to love, honor and respect our five beautiful children. I would cut my own throat before I ever hurt any of them or any child. I may have been too overprotective at times but I darn sure have shown them the love and respect they all deserve every minute of their lives.

I have read many articles where it said most serial killers weren't abused as children.

I don't think there is a logical reason to explain the pedophile and why they are the way they are. All I know is they are the most vile, depraved, sadistic, disgusting monsters put on the earth destroying innocent vulnerable children's lives and leaving them shattered to pick up the pieces.

imo
The bolded graph is a very important statement IMO. I believe if we really knew the reasons behind pedophiles, there might be a cure for them. But as I understand it, there is no cure as of now.

[passionflower]

I am thinking not that mh is SYBIL, but more like SYBIL's MOTHER!!!!
A sadistic, child abuser, molester and MONSTER!!! The father was meek and never seemed to notice IIRC..........

[melley]

Why aren't some people allowed to post articles "in their entirety" even when sourced... but some people are allowed to post things stating that the '7 year old and Sandra Cantu are one in the same' just by saying so? Especially when it turns out they are NOT one in the same... I guess I should go back and read the faq.

[mgardner]

I wish I had the link, but one of the talking heads said that perhaps she wasn't raped with a foreign object. Going on to say there could have been irritants from baths, or even riding a bike. I guess part of me wants to believe that no mother could do harm to another child.

I'm sure the evidence and autopsy reports say otherwise, but why Sandra? If the first child, and Sandra's child were not abused -- is something else going on here?

In short, I'm on the fence on this particular charge.....at least until I hear/see more evidence.

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

Peace,

[Cherokee]

I wish I had the link, but one of the talking heads said that perhaps she wasn't raped with a foreign object. Going on to say there could have been irritants from baths, or even riding a bike. I guess part of me wants to believe that no mother could do harm to another child.

That talking head is full of it. Melanie, I understand why you don't want to believe a mother could rape a child with a foreign object, but did you not read the full article that I posted at the start of this thread (that was shortened by the mods)? If not, please read it it. It does happen. Females do rape other females with foreign objects, and mothers rape their children. Sybil's mother used flashlights and all sorts of other things. Several years ago, a young female college student was raped by another female college student with a Coke bottle. It DOES happen.

I'm sorry, the assertion that Sandra's genital injuries could have happened from bath irritants or riding a bike is naive and impossible. Law enforcement would not have added the "rape by instrument" charge if there was not valid evidence of actual sexual assault on Sandra from tissue samples and other examination. Medical examiners know the difference between "irritation" and rape. That's why alleged rape victims are taken to the hospital for examination and tests. It CAN be determined if rape has actually happened, or if the alleged victim is lying .

Furthermore, it has been conjectured that the object with which MH raped Sandra was found in the suitcase with her, perhaps even still lodged in a body cavity. With Sandra's body degraded from being in the water, law enforcement must have a very good case for the rape charge to be added. Otherwise, they would have merely stuck with the kidnapping and murder charge.

Please open your eyes, Melanie. This world is full of sick people who hurt innocent children, and yes, some of them are mothers.

[scandi]

~ Respectfully snipped and bolded ~

Also nice post above this one Cherokee. I hear what you are saying and it is something we as a society need to pay attention too. Some do go on to abuse - and it is important for society to figure out WHY. Once we know why, we can take better steps to prevent this from happening.

The other side of this coin, though is the "nature versus nuture" argument, which I personally find fascinating. Where do these other abusers come from and why? Just looking at KC Anthony - what happened to her? And Joe Duncan - it does not appear that he was abused but he was a monster beginning at a very early age. So many others, some of the most notorious with NO history of abuse in their backgrounds - where did they come from? Mind boggling.

Salem

Hi Salem and Everyone, What a fascinating thought you bring up - where do these abusers come from? I had just read last week there is a good possibility Ted Bundy had his first kill at age 14 with Ann Marie Burr:

http://laurajames.typepad.com/clews/2006/10/ted_bundys_firs.html

Snipped
" . . . does the key lurk in Bundy's childhood, a Gothic tale of secrecy, denial & possaible incest . . . . ."

[scandi]

That talking head is full of it. Melanie, I understand why you don't want to believe a mother could rape a child with a foreign object, but did you not read the full article that I posted at the start of this thread (that was shortened by the mods)? If not, please read it it. It does happen. Females do rape other females with foreign objects, and mothers rape their children. Sybil's mother used flashlights and all sorts of other things. Several years ago, a young female college student was raped by another female college student with a Coke bottle. It DOES happen.

I'm sorry, the assertion that Sandra's genital injuries could have happened from bath irritants or riding a bike is naive and impossible. Law enforcement would not have added the "rape by instrument" charge if there was not valid evidence of actual sexual assault on Sandra from tissue samples and other examination. Medical examiners know the difference between "irritation" and rape. That's why alleged rape victims are taken to the hospital for examination and tests. It CAN be determined if rape has actually happened, or if the alleged victim is lying .

Furthermore, it has been conjectured that the object with which MH raped Sandra was found in the suitcase with her, perhaps even still lodged in a body cavity. With Sandra's body degraded from being in the water, law enforcement must have a very good case for the rape charge to be added. Otherwise, they would have merely stuck with the kidnapping and murder charge.

Please open your eyes, Melanie. This world is full of sick people who hurt innocent children, and yes, some of them are mothers.

Hi Cherokee ;} Long time no see if you were posting here when Natalee Holloway went missing. Hi anyway even if she was another Cherokee :)

The words stated in today's link stating forensic details would not be released as it would create a wave of public outrage, or SS, tells me you must be right. When this rape by instrument first came out in the news I read a post stating in so many words that her private area was literally decimated, and my first thought was there must have been a powerful anger built up in that killer/abuser.

One thing in today's article I didn't understand tho was they didn't want this info released to protect the Cantu family. They had nothing to do with what happened to Sandra, and would think this would reflect very badly on the Huckaby/Lawless family instead :confused:

[Salem]

I think the Judge meant protect the Cantu/Chavez family from further hurt and torment.

The uglyness of this whole matter is mind boggling. I can not imagine the pain Sandra's family is feeling. And I suspect that each member of that family is running around second guessing themselves with "what ifs". And everytime they read one of these articles, I would venture to guess they physically flinch while trying to forcefully stop the images that must run through their minds.

I know how I feel and I did not know Sandra. I send prayers of peace, love and healing to Sandra's family.

Salem

[LinasK]

That talking head is full of it. Melanie, I understand why you don't want to believe a mother could rape a child with a foreign object, but did you not read the full article that I posted at the start of this thread (that was shortened by the mods)? If not, please read it it. It does happen. Females do rape other females with foreign objects, and mothers rape their children. Sybil's mother used flashlights and all sorts of other things. Several years ago, a young female college student was raped by another female college student with a Coke bottle. It DOES happen.

I'm sorry, the assertion that Sandra's genital injuries could have happened from bath irritants or riding a bike is naive and impossible. Law enforcement would not have added the "rape by instrument" charge if there was not valid evidence of actual sexual assault on Sandra from tissue samples and other examination. Medical examiners know the difference between "irritation" and rape. That's why alleged rape victims are taken to the hospital for examination and tests. It CAN be determined if rape has actually happened, or if the alleged victim is lying .

Furthermore, it has been conjectured that the object with which MH raped Sandra was found in the suitcase with her, perhaps even still lodged in a body cavity. With Sandra's body degraded from being in the water, law enforcement must have a very good case for the rape charge to be added. Otherwise, they would have merely stuck with the kidnapping and murder charge.

Please open your eyes, Melanie. This world is full of sick people who hurt innocent children, and yes, some of them are mothers.
The same baseless reasoning was used in the Jon Benet Ramsey case to try and deny she was ever sexually abused either...

[Cherokee]

The same baseless reasoning was used in the Jon Benet Ramsey case to try and deny she was ever sexually abused either...

Exactly right.

[scandi]

I think the Judge meant protect the Cantu/Chavez family from further hurt and torment.

The uglyness of this whole matter is mind boggling. I can not imagine the pain Sandra's family is feeling. And I suspect that each member of that family is running around second guessing themselves with "what ifs". And everytime they read one of these articles, I would venture to guess they physically flinch while trying to forcefully stop the images that must run through their minds.

I know how I feel and I did not know Sandra. I send prayers of peace, love and healing to Sandra's family.

Salem



Thanks Salem. You have such a way with words :blowkiss: I feel so for Sandra's family but her mother especially. She has been traumatized beyond belief at the loss of Sandra, and every little prayer sent her way will help her heal.

It just has to be that everyone who has seen this mother so racked with grief has been so touched by her. God Bless everyone who knew and loved Sandra. It is just so unbelievable still to me that it happened in the first place.

[Cherokee]

Hi Cherokee ;} Long time no see if you were posting here when Natalee Holloway went missing. Hi anyway even if she was another Cherokee :)

Hi Scandi! I am the same Cherokee; the one and only WS Cherokee. It's good to see you again as well.

The words stated in today's link stating forensic details would not be released as it would create a wave of public outrage, or SS, tells me you must be right. When this rape by instrument first came out in the news I read a post stating in so many words that her private area was literally decimated, and my first thought was there must have been a powerful anger built up in that killer/abuser.

I agree. As I said before, for MH to be charged with "rape by instrument," there must be overwhelming forensic evidence to support that charge, especially since Sandra's body decomposed in water for two weeks. The fact that Sandra was enclosed in the suitcase also excludes any horrific damage done by wild animals or other water life. Except for normal tissue decomposition, there should have been no genital or vaginal damage, and certainly not enough to warrant a charge of "rape by instrument." Anything that was merely bath irritation, or caused from riding a bike, would not show up on a body that had been submerged in water for two weeks. Ask any qualified medical examiner, and they will tell you that is a forensic fact.

[mgardner]

That talking head is full of it. Melanie, I understand why you don't want to believe a mother could rape a child with a foreign object, but did you not read the full article that I posted at the start of this thread (that was shortened by the mods)? If not, please read it it. It does happen. Females do rape other females with foreign objects, and mothers rape their children. Sybil's mother used flashlights and all sorts of other things. Several years ago, a young female college student was raped by another female college student with a Coke bottle. It DOES happen.

I'm sorry, the assertion that Sandra's genital injuries could have happened from bath irritants or riding a bike is naive and impossible. Law enforcement would not have added the "rape by instrument" charge if there was not valid evidence of actual sexual assault on Sandra from tissue samples and other examination. Medical examiners know the difference between "irritation" and rape. That's why alleged rape victims are taken to the hospital for examination and tests. It CAN be determined if rape has actually happened, or if the alleged victim is lying .

Furthermore, it has been conjectured that the object with which MH raped Sandra was found in the suitcase with her, perhaps even still lodged in a body cavity. With Sandra's body degraded from being in the water, law enforcement must have a very good case for the rape charge to be added. Otherwise, they would have merely stuck with the kidnapping and murder charge.

Please open your eyes, Melanie. This world is full of sick people who hurt innocent children, and yes, some of them are mothers.

Thank you, Cherokee -- yes, my eyes are half closed in fear on this one. Just the thought makes my stomach turn. I want so badly to believe Sandra was not tortured that way. I haven't heard much about the instrument and will definitely look into it. When LE was asked he said "no comment' - thus, securing the integrity of his case.

I'm a mother, and just can't imagine what kind of mind this woman has to do such a thing. It sends chills up my spine.

I hope I didn't offend - I literally did want to believe that talking head.

All the best,

[mgardner]

I think the Judge meant protect the Cantu/Chavez family from further hurt and torment.

The uglyness of this whole matter is mind boggling. I can not imagine the pain Sandra's family is feeling. And I suspect that each member of that family is running around second guessing themselves with "what ifs". And everytime they read one of these articles, I would venture to guess they physically flinch while trying to forcefully stop the images that must run through their minds.

I know how I feel and I did not know Sandra. I send prayers of peace, love and healing to Sandra's family.

Salem

Me too, Salem, me too. When I saw Sandra's mom on Dr. Phil, I couldn't help but cry right along with her. She needs all of our prayers.

Peace,

[SeekingJana]

The same baseless reasoning was used in the Jon Benet Ramsey case to try and deny she was ever sexually abused either...

Lina and Cherokee and other fellow Ramsey case followers from so long ago now:
Every day since the broad details of Sandra's abuse by a pedophilic female and subsequent murder have been known to us, I have wished with all my heart, even to the point of having nightmares, that if Sandra's murder had to happen, which I don't know in the scheme of all things imperfectly human, that it could have come before JonBenet's murder.
Sandra's case is the ONLY highly publicized case of known and documented sexual abuse in the form of rape with an object and murder by a female which sheds enormous light on what so many of us believed happened to JBR and WHY, and by WHOM.

We have faith that Sandra's perp. will be prosecuted. There can be no justice in this world for JonBenet's murderer.. but I hope there is God's eternal justice.

I absolutely believe the two cases have extraordinary parallels- the main difference being that Melissa H was not Sandra's relative. I have hesitated to bring the matter up for fear that it would be seen as somehow diminishing Sandra's importance to us.. Sandra is important in her own right, and her horrific death, some of the worst details which are being withheld, could have changed the course of the Ramsey investigation, had it preceeded JBR's rape by an inanimate object and subsequent murder. Thank you for saying what I have been absolutely convinced of since 1997.

RIP, dear JonBenet, and now sweet Sandra. You are so loved by many mothers and grandmothers who sought justice for you in this world.. Many of our dear sleuths are now with you and little Sandra in Heaven, and I believe the loving comfort shared beyond the grave is great and everlasting.

IF other peoples' outrage and extreme sorrow is as great as mine, which I am sure it is, then I am glad Melissa H. is locked up for her own safety.

[scandi]

Lina and Cherokee and other fellow Ramsey case followers from so long ago now:
Every day since the broad details of Sandra's abuse by a pedophilic female and subsequent murder have been known to us, I have wished with all my heart, even to the point of having nightmares, that if Sandra's murder had to happen, which I don't know in the scheme of all things imperfectly human, that it could have come before JonBenet's murder.
Sandra's case is the ONLY highly publicized case of known and documented sexual abuse in the form of rape with an object and murder by a female which sheds enormous light on what so many of us believed happened to JBR and WHY, and by WHOM.

We have faith that Sandra's perp. will be prosecuted. There can be no justice in this world for JonBenet's murderer.. but I hope there is God's eternal justice.

I absolutely believe the two cases have extraordinary parallels- the main difference being that Melissa H was not Sandra's relative. I have hesitated to bring the matter up for fear that it would be seen as somehow diminishing Sandra's importance to us.. Sandra is important in her own right, and her horrific death, some of the worst details which are being withheld, could have changed the course of the Ramsey investigation, had it preceeded JBR's rape by an inanimate object and subsequent murder. Thank you for saying what I have been absolutely convinced of since 1997.

RIP, dear JonBenet, and now sweet Sandra. You are so loved by many mothers and grandmothers who sought justice for you in this world.. Many of our dear sleuths are now with you and little Sandra in Heaven, and I believe the loving comfort shared beyond the grave is great and everlasting.

IF other peoples' outrage and extreme sorrow is as great as mine, which I am sure it is, then I am glad Melissa H. is locked up for her own safety.



I just wanted to thank you for that special post SJ. I'm too tired right now to respond to it in a worthwhile way to do it justice, but so agree. JonBenet's death was the start of our country becoming aware of crimes like these IMO. Too many things were done wrong and I don't know if they can be corrected or compensated for to give her Justice.

But she is always in my heart, a pioneer in death to show the way for future investigations as what to do and not, especially with a crime scene. And then there are so many other facets to her case like a worthless DA, etc. There ought to be a law about that~

I read and learn. I know others do too, and hope many of them are in a position to make a difference now in any case where a child has been taken from this earth before God has given the call.


xox

[believe09]

This case has killed me for a number of the same reasons it has the rest of you...the vibrancy and age of the victim as well as the natural speculation regarding what might have occurred can't help but bring a sense of nausea.

I want to comment on one thing and raise a possibility as well-

First, I am intrigued that the judge would opt to issue a statement qualifying why the results of the autopsy would be supressed-specifically using the phrase "public outrage." The damage inflicted on this poor angel must have been grave indeed for the judge not to simply seal the report with no comment...am I making any sense?? So I wonder if rather than simply speculating that the object was in the suitcase , if there was actually evidence of perforation. I am not being salacious-simply wondering what could have moved the judge to be so specific.

It seems so trite to say that my heart goes out to Sandra's family...I simply hope that they make it through all of this. And hats off to the investigators who have had to piece this all together and gaze on the handiwork of such an evil mind.

[arielilane]

I think she is being a smart judge. I also, suspect that the Cantu and Chavez families are not ready to hear the details. Already there is much devastation and no more is needed, at least, at this time. There will be a time for justice for Sandra.

[Veritas]

As one possible explanation for the judge's action, I would expect huge outrage if the autopsy revealed MALE DNA-- the outrage centering on TPD repeatedly insisting they have no other [male] suspects.

[oceanblueeyes]

As one possible explanation for the judge's action, I would expect huge outrage if the autopsy revealed MALE DNA-- the outrage centering on TPD repeatedly insisting they have no other [male] suspects.

The Judge clearly has to state on the record why she is making any decisions she makes.

I do not believe this crime has anything to do with any male offender but solely Melissa Huckaby.

It serves no purpose to reveal the graphic details at this time of what was done to Sandra at the hands of Huckaby.

The Judge knows how this information will absolutely devastate the already devastated Cantu/Chavez family but she also knows she must be very careful not to taint the potential jury pool before a trial is held. If known and I think the genital trauma is very severe, then it would cause even more outrage and backlash against the defendant and the Judge wants to ensure she gets a fair trial so she is not going to release anything that may cause the defendant more prejudgment.

imo

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~ Lina and Cherokee and other fellow Ramsey case followers from so long ago now:
Every day since the broad details of Sandra's abuse by a pedophilic female and subsequent murder have been known to us, I have wished with all my heart, even to the point of having nightmares, that if Sandra's murder had to happen, which I don't know in the scheme of all things imperfectly human, that it could have come before JonBenet's murder.
Sandra's case is the ONLY highly publicized case of known and documented sexual abuse in the form of rape with an object and murder by a female which sheds enormous light on what so many of us believed happened to JBR and WHY, and by WHOM.



SeekingJana - I don't think it is necessary for Sandra's death to have happened first for it to benefit JBR (at least I hope not). JBR's case is being looked again by Colorado LE with a new DA. I am sure they are hearing the news of what has happened in Sandra's case. IF, and I say if, because like you, I don't pretend to know how all things work and inter-relate in our universe, but if Sandra's death is meant to shed light on those investigating JBR's death, then it will happen, either by coincidence, devine intervention or plain old karma.

My DFIL told me once that some good comes of all evil - I hang on to this thought, because sometimes it is difficult not to understand why things happen. Not trying in anyway to lighten the horrible circumstances of what happened to Sandra, but we are already seeing an "eye-opening" of not just the local LE in Sandra's case, but many of the talking heads on TV on the NG, JVM and other shows. This eye opening will lead to the education of parents and professionals alike (I think and hope).

Salem

[smart blonde]

Please forgive me if this has been brought up already, as I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, but...

I can't help but speculate if the object(s) used in the alleged abuse/rape/torture/mutilation of little Sandra were the very same 'Exacto'-knife blades that Huckaby allegedly swallowed in her alleged suicide attempt.

Pure speculation on my part... and I hope I am wrong.

[petresq_algc]

Please forgive me if this has been brought up already, as I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, but...

I can't help but speculate if the object(s) used in the alleged abuse/rape/torture/mutilation of little Sandra were the very same 'Exacto'-knife blades that Huckaby allegedly swallowed in her alleged suicide attempt.

Pure speculation on my part... and I hope I am wrong.

As sick as that thought is, I have to admit...as soon as I heard about about the blades I thought the same thing:(

[ggg]

Please forgive me if this has been brought up already, as I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, but...

I can't help but speculate if the object(s) used in the alleged abuse/rape/torture/mutilation of little Sandra were the very same 'Exacto'-knife blades that Huckaby allegedly swallowed in her alleged suicide attempt.

Pure speculation on my part... and I hope I am wrong.

Oh my. Your post made me stand up and take notice....I mostly read and post on Caylee's forum but I have been following this case too. I was watching Sandra's memorial on one of the television station's live feeds. She was such a beautiful and happy child. I'll always remember her when I see children skipping.

During this telecast they also had a "live" posting forum, which was along side the memorial viewing video (I've never seen anything like that and was very impressed with the technology). At one time during the memorial, there was about 500 people logged in though not that many posting. They also had the televsion station's reporter in the forum, commenting on who was who at the memorial. I can only recall her first name and it was Sharon. I'm pretty sure it was a local station.

During this live forum, one poster stated "my mother has a friend that works in LE and she was told that the private parts were mutilated". Not longer after that, the memorial was over, and so was the "live" posting forum.

I remember the way the LE spokesperson looked and the tone of his voice during one of the initial press conferences (when the body was found and turned over the ME). This might be why.

Prayers to Sandra's family.

Regards,
ggg

[Cherokee]

Thank you, Cherokee -- yes, my eyes are half closed in fear on this one. Just the thought makes my stomach turn. I want so badly to believe Sandra was not tortured that way. I haven't heard much about the instrument and will definitely look into it. When LE was asked he said "no comment' - thus, securing the integrity of his case.

I'm a mother, and just can't imagine what kind of mind this woman has to do such a thing. It sends chills up my spine.

I hope I didn't offend - I literally did want to believe that talking head.

All the best,

Melanie, thank you for taking my post in the spirit with which it was offered. You didn't offend me. I merely wanted to help you see the reality of what was done to Sandra versus the empty words of a "talking head" who was blowing smoke and talking nonsense.

Now we have learned that the judge has sealed Sandra's autopsy because its contents would cause "public outrage." As I said before, the chage of "rape by intrument" was not added as an afterthought or a possibility by law enforcement. There had to be irrefutable evidence of genital rape and/or mutilation on a body that had been submerged in water (but protected from animals by a suitcase) for two weeks.

If you've ever studied forensic decomposition, you know the evidence of rape on Sandra's body must be severe and overwhelming for it to have survived that long in those elements.

I, for one, hope MH will plead guilty and spare Sandra's family the trauma of a trial that will only add to the Cantu's grief.

[Cherokee]

did anybody seem this?? I must miss it
BREAKING NEWS

Folsom, CA– As Melissa Huckaby awaits her arraignment in court this afternoon in San Joaquin County, has discovered the arrest last week of Timothy John Lawless, a relative to Huckaby and the Lawless family. Folsom Police Department verified this afternoon Lawless was arrested on April 15.
**************************2009/04/24/sandra-cantu-case-sources-lawless-relative-arrested-on-sex-charges/

Timothy John Lawless is NOT a relative of Melissa Huckaby.

The misinformation that he is a relative has already been posted on this forum and removed by the mods. And now they will be removing it again.

[Elley Mae]

I can only hope that it is never known "what" was used. I just don't think that it matters, another innocent child is dead and that is bad enough. Do PPL really want/need to know.

[smart blonde]

Allowing my speculative thoughts to delve even deeper into the dungeons of depravity...

IF, as I speculated above, the 'Exacto' type razor/knife blades were used in the alleged mutilation of this sweet child, might the perp have swallowed the blades in a 'suicide' attempt as a means to:

1.) 'keep' a 'trophy'/'memento' of the 'event'?
2.) 'hide' the evidence/weapon of torture?
3.) try to 'share' and somewhat 're-create' the pain caused by this weapon, as a sick way of 'bonding' with the victim, and/or, out of guilt for what Sandra was subjected to?
4.) all of the above?

Again, I can not stress enough that this is just speculation on my part.

But, it is also a thought I haven't been able to shake these last couple of weeks.

[smart blonde]

I can only hope that it is never known "what" was used. I just don't think that it matters, another innocent child is dead and that is bad enough. Do PPL really want/need to know.
Okay... I must concur to you.

I have given myself a headache with my speculations.

It's harder than I imagined, trying to think/understand the thoughts/reasoning of a monster.

I'm done. I can't stomach much more, anyway.

[Kat]

I'm with you Smartblonde, it's just too much.

[momtective]

Allowing my speculative thoughts to delve even deeper into the dungeons of depravity...

IF, as I speculated above, the 'Exacto' type razor/knife blades were used in the alleged mutilation of this sweet child, might the perp have swallowed the blades in a 'suicide' attempt as a means to:

1.) 'keep' a 'trophy'/'momento' of the 'event'?
2.) 'hide' the evidence/weapon of torture?
3.) try to 'share' and somewhat 're-create' the pain caused by this weapon, as a sick way of 'bonding' with the victim, and/or, out of guilt for what Sandra was subjected to?
4.) all of the above?

Again, I can not stress enough that this is just speculation on my part.

But, it is also a thought I haven't been able to shake these last couple of weeks.

I can certainly see were that would cause outrage within the general public and I must admit I had not considered that. What I had considered is... and it makes me sick to even type this...a crucifix (large cross). The repeated searches of the church is what made me consider this as repulsive as it is.:mad:

[snapdragon]

Allowing my speculative thoughts to delve even deeper into the dungeons of depravity...

IF, as I speculated above, the 'Exacto' type razor/knife blades were used in the alleged mutilation of this sweet child, might the perp have swallowed the blades in a 'suicide' attempt as a means to:

1.) 'keep' a 'trophy'/'momento' of the 'event'?
2.) 'hide' the evidence/weapon of torture?
3.) try to 'share' and somewhat 're-create' the pain caused by this weapon, as a sick way of 'bonding' with the victim, and/or, out of guilt for what Sandra was subjected to?
4.) all of the above?

Again, I can not stress enough that this is just speculation on my part.

But, it is also a thought I haven't been able to shake these last couple of weeks.

With this case, and this perp, it seems anything is possible. It wouldn't be the first time any of the above actions were taken by a disturbed, twisted murderer. My first thought at reading about what the judge said about sealing the autopsy results and public outrage was, OMG, what if she carved symbols/words into her? Much of this reminds me of stories, mostly fictional, about ritualistic killings. All SPECULATIVE, of course. But it pains me to even be speculating on this... But when a judge makes a statement like she did, speculation on WHY is gonna run rampant.

[smart blonde]

I can certainly see were that would cause outrage within the general public and I must admit I had not considered that. What I had considered is... and it makes me sick to even type this...a crucifix (large cross). The repeated searches of the church is what made me consider this as repulsive as it is.:mad:
Yes... a cross/crucifix.
This idea had also occured to me.

[Salem]

SmartBlonde - you and momtective make some pretty good points with your speculation. I have to admit, it is a discussion I am not comfortable with - I can't standing thinking about the horrors/pain/fear Sandra might have been subjected to. Just typing the words is too much for my psyche :(

Salem

[tfrohning]

Timothy John Lawless is NOT a relative of Melissa Huckaby.

The misinformation that he is a relative has already been posted on this forum and removed by the mods. And now they will be removing it again.

Well I delete my post since you said that. But I will need to say thanks for that information! even if was a little rude.

[lngrid]

Please forgive me if this has been brought up already, as I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, but...

I can't help but speculate if the object(s) used in the alleged abuse/rape/torture/mutilation of little Sandra were the very same 'Exacto'-knife blades that Huckaby allegedly swallowed in her alleged suicide attempt.

Pure speculation on my part... and I hope I am wrong.

I know we've heard she swallowed "razors" or "x-acto knife blades," but if that were true wouldn't they have to have been removed surgically? Wouldn't she have been kept in the hospital longer than she was? Wouldn't we have heard about the surgery?

But then I know nothing about swallowing foreign objects. The blades could have been enclosed in something to protect MH from harm. Would NurseBeeMe be able to chime in on this?

[mgardner]

Melanie, thank you for taking my post in the spirit with which it was offered. You didn't offend me. I merely wanted to help you see the reality of what was done to Sandra versus the empty words of a "talking head" who was blowing smoke and talking nonsense.

Now we have learned that the judge has sealed Sandra's autopsy because its contents would cause "public outrage." As I said before, the chage of "rape by intrument" was not added as an afterthought or a possibility by law enforcement. There had to be irrefutable evidence of genital rape and/or mutilation on a body that had been submerged in water (but protected from animals by a suitcase) for two weeks.

If you've ever studied forensic decomposition, you know the evidence of rape on Sandra's body must be severe and overwhelming for it to have survived that long in those elements.

I, for one, hope MH will plead guilty and spare Sandra's family the trauma of a trial that will only add to the Cantu's grief.

You're welcome -- sometimes I need a swift kick in the rear :) I can only imagine what's in that autopsy report. But does it bother you that in all the criminal cases of years past, that this information does come out? And I've heard some pretty horrific ones - like Danielle Van Dam and the infamous hand print on the trailer (just above the bed). The outrage that caused in San Diego was intense, and I'm suprised Westerfield ever made it to death row without a bullet in his head.

I have studied a bit on forensic decomp (which is one reason they never found she was raped -- the animals had taken away all evidence). But in the Caylee case, I'm interested in the plant growth by/in the body to determine how long Caylee had been there. That's going to be a bombshell at court. So yes, I'm interested in all those things.

Little did Mellissa know - that waterproof suitcase will do her in. It certainly protected a ton of evidence (IMHO).

Thanks again,

[Cherokee]

Well I delete my post since you said that. But I will need to say thanks for that information! even if was a little rude.

I wasn't trying to be rude, and I'm sorry you took it that way. The reason I posted about it being untrue that Timothy Lawless was related to MH was so that ANOTHER person didn't read it (before the mods had a chance to delete it) and take it to yet another forum or blog. The mods deleted at least two threads yesterday that were started on the same subject, and that's all I was saying. I thought you might want to know where your post went. I was in a hurry when I posted previously, so I didn't have time to write more than a couple of lines. I'm sorry if my short post was taken by you to be rudeness. I guess I should have used some smilies. It's often hard to "read" another person's tone of voice on the internet.

[Cherokee]

I know we've heard she swallowed "razors" or "x-acto knife blades," but if that were true wouldn't they have to have been removed surgically? Wouldn't she have been kept in the hospital longer than she was? Wouldn't we have heard about the surgery?

But then I know nothing about swallowing foreign objects. The blades could have been enclosed in something to protect MH from harm. Would NurseBeeMe be able to chime in on this?

I had the exact same thought, Ingrid. I would think swallowing several xacto blades would have done a lot of internal damage, unless, as you said, they were incased in something. If I remember right, MH was out of the hospital the day after she was admitted.

[mgardner]

I know we've heard she swallowed "razors" or "x-acto knife blades," but if that were true wouldn't they have to have been removed surgically? Wouldn't she have been kept in the hospital longer than she was? Wouldn't we have heard about the surgery?

But then I know nothing about swallowing foreign objects. The blades could have been enclosed in something to protect MH from harm. Would NurseBeeMe be able to chime in on this?

Hi Ingrid,

I would certainly think she would require surgery -- but have heard that taking a large amount of buckwheat (or some type of wheat turns to glue, and surrounds the knife). Thus, not requiring surgery. Could be an ol' wives tale as well.

I, too, have the same questions. What hospital did she go to? How come family and friends are not talking about this? Why didn't a reporter ask the pastor or his wife? I'm beginning to think it's all for not, and didn't happen. Remember the day she was waving as she was driving to the police station? She didn't seem in pain to me (especially driving).

And "if" she were trying to commit suicide, keeping the plastic cover on it would do no good (darn). Also, wouldn't the x-acto knives be presented as evidence if she takes up the loony defense?

Oh - so many questions.

Best,

[Cherokee]

You're welcome -- sometimes I need a swift kick in the rear :) I can only imagine what's in that autopsy report. But does it bother you that in all the criminal cases of years past, that this information does come out? And I've heard some pretty horrific ones - like Danielle Van Dam and the infamous hand print on the trailer (just above the bed). The outrage that caused in San Diego was intense, and I'm suprised Westerfield ever made it to death row without a bullet in his head.

I have studied a bit on forensic decomp (which is one reason they never found she was raped -- the animals had taken away all evidence). But in the Caylee case, I'm interested in the plant growth by/in the body to determine how long Caylee had been there. That's going to be a bombshell at court. So yes, I'm interested in all those things.

Little did Mellissa know - that waterproof suitcase will do her in. It certainly protected a ton of evidence (IMHO).

Thanks again,

No, no kicks in the rear, Melanie. You're just a thinking, feeling human being who can't bear the thought of what might have happened to Sandra. Her kidnapping and murder was bad enough, but when the charge of rape by instrument was added, it became horrific and even more terrible because the perpetrator was the mother of a young child herself.

IMHO, by not releasing the autopsy results, the judge is trying to protect the integrity of the case against MH, and also added expense (and lengthening of the trial process) if the defense moves for a change of venue because they say the jury pool is tainted. They may do it anyway, but if the autopsy results were unsealed, you could just about guarantee MH's defense attorneys would demand a change of venue and file all kinds of motions to disallow evidence and dismiss the charges. It's hard enough for a DA to prosecute a case in their own jurisdiction with all the defense grandstanding and hijinks we have today. It's extra difficult to do it long distance.

[Salem]

I had the exact same thought, Ingrid. I would think swallowing several xacto blades would have done a lot of internal damage, unless, as you said, they were incased in something. If I remember right, MH was out of the hospital the day after she was admitted.

Hey Guys - if you look in the attempted suicide thread you will see that NurseBeeMe did weigh in on this very issue. Like you, I thought at a minimum MH would need some kind of surgery to get the blades out, but apparently the Docs can now put some kind of scope down the throat with a magnet on the end and get the stuff out :eek::eek:. I know, I know, its unbelievable! But Nurse is a bonafide nurse and she says surgery generally is NOT necessary.

I don't know how someone could swallow x-acto blades. It makes me cringe to just type about it. The very thought is just soooooooo - I don't know - weird!

Salem

[lngrid]

Hey Guys - if you look in the attempted suicide thread you will see that NurseBeeMe did weigh in on this very issue.
(Respectfully snipped by lngrid)
Salem
Thanks for telling us that and thanks for saving Nursebeeme the trouble of replying. (Guess I better read that whole thread...)

[oceanblueeyes]

Allowing my speculative thoughts to delve even deeper into the dungeons of depravity...

IF, as I speculated above, the 'Exacto' type razor/knife blades were used in the alleged mutilation of this sweet child, might the perp have swallowed the blades in a 'suicide' attempt as a means to:

1.) 'keep' a 'trophy'/'momento' of the 'event'?
2.) 'hide' the evidence/weapon of torture?
3.) try to 'share' and somewhat 're-create' the pain caused by this weapon, as a sick way of 'bonding' with the victim, and/or, out of guilt for what Sandra was subjected to?
4.) all of the above?

Again, I can not stress enough that this is just speculation on my part.

But, it is also a thought I haven't been able to shake these last couple of weeks.

Was Huckaby trying to emulate the death of Sandra?

Did Sandra die from internal bleeding?

I am not sure of the object she used but I do think the genital trauma was severe. Maybe enough to cause massive internal bleeding.

I would like to know if Huckaby actually swallowed the exacto blades or threatened to do so. I also wonder if her grandparents called 911 and told them she was threatening to kill herself. She wasn't in the hospital that long to have serious trauma herself but she was in there long enough to be held and then assessed by psyche doctors before being released.

imo

[Reannan]

The rumors about the Exacto blades struck me as bizarre also. Why would someone try to kill themselves by swallowing blades, rather than simply cutting their wrist? If someone DID swallow blades like that, I just don't see them being released from the hospital as quickly as MH was. I would think they would keep her in the hospital for a longer time on suicide watch. Regarding the possible "public outrage" over the autopsy results - all of your thoughts are valid, but my first thought was that perhaps Sandra was actually dumped in the pond while still alive. This case is so horrible to think about, you just can't get your mind around it. I still get tears in my eye when I think about little Jessica Lunsford, and I vividly remember the outrage I felt - and still feel - over that tragedy.

[smart blonde]

Regarding the swallowing of the blades... for those of us having trouble understanding how it could be possible to expel them without surgery...

Right after the story broke in the media about Huckabee's alleged suicide attempt by 'X-acto' knife blades, both 'Nancy Grace' and 'Jane Valez Mitchell' had medical experts on their shows explaining why there wouldn't be more damage to Huckabee's body.

Nancy Grace even showed pics of various 'X-acto' knives.

The medical expert, on NG, stated he assumed that Huckabee wrapped each blade, (which he pointed out are rather small when no longer attached to a knife) in a piece of bread, or something similar, to swallow it/them down.

Experts on both shows stated that once the blades make it to the stomach, the digestive system takes over, and literally protects the body by wrapping the foreign object(s)/the sharp blades, in stool ('stool' is the word he used)... which acts as a blanket, or cushion, surrounding the object, then the body empties itself of the stool in the usual manner.

It was said, on both shows, that it is uncomfortable, even painful, but rarely deadly. Neither expert on either show seemed to think this was a particularly unique way to try to kill oneself. I got the feeling they have seen it all.

Sorry, no, I do not have links to either show, but they probably won't be hard to find, for someone who is more Internet and computer savvy than I.

[TotallyObsessed]

Yes... a cross/crucifix.
This idea had also occured to me.

That is what keeps popping into my head as well. Just like a scene from "the Exorcist"....:(

[badhorsie]

I can certainly see were that would cause outrage within the general public and I must admit I had not considered that. What I had considered is... and it makes me sick to even type this...a crucifix (large cross). The repeated searches of the church is what made me consider this as repulsive as it is.:mad:

I have also had this unspeakable thought:furious:

[concentric]

I am thinking not that mh is SYBIL, but more like SYBIL's MOTHER!!!!
A sadistic, child abuser, molester and MONSTER!!! The father was meek and never seemed to notice IIRC..........

Me and a bunch of other sleuthers on here posted at the same time in different threads (synchronistically) that in our recollection the most predominant case that stuck out in our minds was: Sybil's Mother!

[concentric]

Wonder what the analysis of the bed showed? Maybe, no sperm (unless male perpetrator also present), but other bodily fluids of the perp?

[Elley Mae]

I hope I am not going overboard here but when my daughter was "young" she had Labial adhesion, basically she did not have a vagina opening. Dr said no worry mom, I could tell you to put estrogen cream on it and it will open, or you can wait until she goes through puberty and let it happen on it's on, and it did. Just wondering if Sandra also had this and that would have required the razor blades. Sorry if was wrong to post, but just a thought in reference to the razor blades.

[lngrid]

I hope I am not going overboard here but when my daughter was "young" she had Labial adhesion, basically she did not have a vagina opening. Dr said no worry mom, I could tell you to put estrogen cream on it and it will open, or you can wait until she goes through puberty and let it happen on it's on, and it did. Just wondering if Sandra also had this and that would have required the razor blades. Sorry if was wrong to post, but just a thought in reference to the razor blades.

Has anyone placed razor blades in the church or in use in relation to Sandra? :eek: This is very nearly too much to contemplate...

All I've ever heard relative to them is that MH supposedly swallowed them in a grandstanding bid for attention.

[Theonly1]

Yes... a cross/crucifix.
This idea had also occured to me.

Me too. I tried to think of what would be so extreme that the State assumes the public would be totally outraged enough to taint the jury pool right out of the box. We have a young girl who has been sexually raped with an unnamed object (and then murdered) perhaps in a church. A crucifix immediately came to mind. It's satanic, isn't it?

[Reznor]

Does this mean that Sandra's mom does not know what happened to her daughter?

[concentric]

Regarding the possible "public outrage" over the autopsy results - all of your thoughts are valid, but my first thought was that perhaps Sandra was actually dumped in the pond while still alive. This case is so horrible to think about, you just can't get your mind around it. I still get tears in my eye when I think about little Jessica Lunsford, and I vividly remember the outrage I felt - and still feel - over that tragedy.

Could very well be. I think some perpetrators don't care whether the victim is alive or dead when disposing of a body--in many cases which I have read of. Another one I think about is Natalie Holloway. Did they dump her in the ocean when she was unconscious? Did she awake and then drown? It's horrible to think about, but that doesn't stop my mind from questioning because it does apply to the "heinous" nature of a crime.

[Patience]

I am sorry to post that link but I do wonder if Melissa has some kind of taboo fetish that she wanted to act out or maybe take pics of or video, webcam.Again, sorry if I am offending anyone but it is happening.

:furious:



Woman accused of webcasting sex act with dog

Updated: Mon Apr. 27 2009 6:19:05 PM

The Canadian Press
TORONTO — A woman in Lakeshore, Ont., has been charged with sexually assaulting her young child and dog and broadcasting the acts over the Internet via a webcam.
Ontario Provincial Police received a complaint Saturday from someone who said he had viewed the incidents on his computer the night before.

[Elley Mae]

Has anyone placed razor blades in the church or in use in relation to Sandra? :eek: This is very nearly too much to contemplate...

All I've ever heard relative to them is that MH supposedly swallowed them in a grandstanding bid for attention.

Sorry if you are confused, I was responding to post #65,66,67, and 71.

[tiredofthis]

I am sorry to post that link but I do wonder if Melissa has some kind of taboo fetish that she wanted to act out or maybe take pics of or video, webcam.Again, sorry if I am offending anyone but it is happening.

:furious:



Woman accused of webcasting sex act with dog

Updated: Mon Apr. 27 2009 6:19:05 PM

The Canadian Press
TORONTO — A woman in Lakeshore, Ont., has been charged with sexually assaulting her young child and dog and broadcasting the acts over the Internet via a webcam.
Ontario Provincial Police received a complaint Saturday from someone who said he had viewed the incidents on his computer the night before.

Maybe. We live in a very bizarre world.

[txsvicki]

Yes... a cross/crucifix.
This idea had also occured to me.


This branch of Baptist wouldn't have any crosses in the church, but I guess she could have brought her own. No offense to anyone at all, but I can't stand the title of this thread. I don't like thinking about it, because I figure that a person would have to be completely overdosed and unconscious to not wake up when experiencing that type of pain. If a muscle relaxer was used like with the other little girl, then there's not much hope of unconsciousness.

[concentric]

As one possible explanation for the judge's action, I would expect huge outrage if the autopsy revealed MALE DNA-- the outrage centering on TPD repeatedly insisting they have no other [male] suspects.

I'm keeping an open mind about a male being involved, along with Huckaby. I'm also keeping an open mind about Huckaby being the lone killer.

Both are possible, IMO.

[passionflower]

OMG, a screwdriver!

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/shocking-new-details-emerge-from-sandra-cantu-case_100190783.html

[Recovering-Lurker]

OMG, a screwdriver!

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/shocking-new-details-emerge-from-sandra-cantu-case_100190783.html

:furious: :furious: :furious:

[SleuthyMama]

That poor, poor child. My heart aches for what she went through.

[adnoid]

OMG, a screwdriver!

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/shocking-new-details-emerge-from-sandra-cantu-case_100190783.html

I'm just curious, as that news site seems a little off beat and I cannot find this mentioned in any of the places that usually carry the story - or any other place as well. It does show up in the Google news alerts, but I've never heard of or read at the "Thaindian News" before. It describes itself as "A news portal for Indians in Thailand", which I would not expect to be the place to find breaking news about events in Tracy - but I could be wrong.

[SeekingJana]

I'm just curious, as that news site seems a little off beat and I cannot find this mentioned in any of the places that usually carry the story - or any other place as well. It does show up in the Google news alerts, but I've never heard of or read at the "Thaindian News" before. It describes itself as "A news portal for Indians in Thailand", which I would not expect to be the place to find breaking news about events in Tracy - but I could be wrong.

Adnoid,
The source they are quoting ( improperly) is called BNO.
Do you know what BNO is? The only reference I can find online is " Twitter- Breaking News Online".

I think a responsible news venue would have linked to their source material.

The statements of revenge kill hits attributed to Danny Cantu also greatly disturb me, as I had not read this before now.

Thanks for any light you can shed on the originating source material, stated as only BNO.

Maria

[scandi]

Adnoid,
The source they are quoting ( improperly) is called BNO.
Do you know what BNO is? The only reference I can find online is " Twitter- Breaking News Online".

I think a responsible news venue would have linked to their source material.

The statements of revenge kill hits attributed to Danny Cantu also greatly disturb me, as I had not read this before now.

Thanks for any light you can shed on the originating source material, stated as only BNO.

Maria

I read these new posts this morning and what is being put out as the damage done by the instrument {theoretically} is what I read a couple of weeks ago in a link, that was the case.

What upset me and still does is that Mr Cantu would put this specific info out there when he knew LE had a reason to keep it close to the vest.

IMO it is counter productive all the way around. I am sure this father is just beside himself as to what was done to his little girl. The threat did make my eyes open wide, but I hope it is his male machismo showing. I doubt he would ever make the threat good, and do hope LE is talking with him. It could be one of the reasons that LE wanted to protect those who loved and knew Sandra.

[sunflowerchick]

I read these new posts this morning and what is being put out as the damage done by the instrument {theoretically} is what I read a couple of weeks ago in a link, that was the case.

What upset me and still does is that Mr Cantu would put this specific info out there when he knew LE had a reason to keep it close to the vest.

IMO it is counter productive all the way around. I am sure this father is just beside himself as to what was done to his little girl. The threat did make my eyes open wide, but I hope it is his male machismo showing. I doubt he would ever make the threat good, and do hope LE is talking with him. It could be one of the reasons that LE wanted to protect those who loved and knew Sandra.

I thought the story said "a source" gave them the information about the screwdriver, as well as stuff DC may have said. If that is the case, then it could be that he didn't say anything, and someone is just trying to talk about the case. That doesn't make it true in my opinion.

[scandi]

I thought the story said "a source" gave them the information about the screwdriver, as well as stuff DC may have said. If that is the case, then it could be that he didn't say anything, and someone is just trying to talk about the case. That doesn't make it true in my opinion.

I agree this is very iffy, and if from a Twitter conversation, could be nothing. We have read about the damage done to Sandra which a weapon like that could cause. But we will have to wait for the truth of the matter. If it is the truth it will right itself and if this is a bunch of hogwash, I expect we will hear from Mr Cantu. After all it has been printed he has given a verbal threat to whoever killed Sandra, and if that isn't the case he will want to make it known.

I think :confused:

[headndownstream]

This just makes me ill.

[believe09]

I can see why the judge supressed it if the story is true, or even some what true. Quite frankly, as removed as I am from the principals, it is a detail that makes me want to fly to CA and snatch Huckaby bald. At the minimum.

[Mouser]

I'm posting this question here because it seems to be the only active thread. Sorry if I'm totally out of the loop here--I understand that info in this case is sealed, but shouldn't we at least know about Melissa Huckaby's plea yesterday? Or did it get postponed again?

TIA for any info.

[lne1970]

It's not til May 22nd I believe.

[Mouser]

It's not til May 22nd I believe.

Oh--thank you for that. I don't know where I got May 11 from.