Canada-Victoria Stafford, 8, Woodstock, Ontario; thread #6

[Justice07]

Don't know. Looks familiar though? Did we see him in any other videos?

I am not sure...but I definitely think I have seen him in another video. Maybe at the bike ride?

[another nosey mom]

From the London Free Press Article:

"The nursing home has a video camera pointing to the parking lot and intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, but a supervisor there wouldn't say if police had taken tape from that camera as well."

Want to make a bet?



of course they have the tape :woohoo:

[ThoughtElf]

From the London Free Press Article:

"The nursing home has a video camera pointing to the parking lot and intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, but a supervisor there wouldn't say if police had taken tape from that camera as well."

Want to make a bet?

NO. Unless we bet for cookies & you agree to share when we lose and you win. :crazy:

Of course they took the tape.

[Flowercb]

Someone mentioned on the Toronto Star comments sections of the article for today that the police might be releasing this simply to send the abductors a message that they are closing in.

[justbetweenus]

Following a link that our LuckyPenny posted of pictures on Tori's disappearance so far was this one of a policeman looking in the window of a car while two others stood back with a dog. This was at a townhouse on Young St. I was hoping one of the locals could let me know if they are familiar with this area, and how far away it would be from the abduction.

ETA: this isn't the street of the previous house at the Co-op is it? Thanks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/justbetweenus/CarTorips1.jpg

[LuckyPenny]

Following a link that our LuckyPenny posted of pictures on Tori's disappearance so far was this one of a policeman looking in the window of a car while two others stood back with a dog. This was at a townhouse on Young St. I was hoping one of the locals could let me know if they are familiar with this area, and how far away it would be from the abduction.

ETA: this isn't the street of the previous house at the Co-op is it? Thanks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/justbetweenus/CarTorips1.jpg

This is 2 blocks west from the CIBC (across from zellers) diagonally.

[justbetweenus]

This is 2 blocks west from the CIBC (across from zellers) diagonally.

Thanks LP. Is that nearby the school?

[LuckyPenny]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/

In this video, is Tara's hair dyed again? I dont see those horrid streaks anymore. Just curious.

[ThoughtElf]

I've been thinking about the vehicle a lot this afternoon. There are two likely scenarios in play:

1. LE thinks that the vehicle is not involved in the abduction and do just wish to speak to the potential witness.
2. LE suspects that the vehicle is involved somehow and sending out a message.

In either case, there are questions and possible logical thoughts:

1. Vehicle Not Involved Directly
Q - Why has the person/s not come forward?
A - Can you recall each child, child w/ adult, single adult you saw most recently when you drove past a school? Do you look? (you probably do more now that you're on WS) Were you looking in that direction, i.e. towards school? We you talking on your cell phone or adjusting your radio/cd player while driving? Drinking a Timmie's so your head was slightly tilted upwards right then? Was the person even from Woodstock? Did they know they were near Fyfe &/or Walter? It was late afternoon - was there sun glare preventing clear vision?

I can think of many, many reasons why the person might not have come forward. They might not know what they saw, or they might not have even 'seen' anything at all depending on where their attention was at that moment.

2. Vehicle Directly Involved
Q. If LE is late in releasing this, why?
A. Perhaps nursing home security tapes showed that the car wasn't just driving by and was also in the Parking lot at some point.
Q. Would LE release this as a teaser to suspects to let them know they're closing in?
A. IMO, nope. If they were close enough to tease suspects I would think they'd already know what type of vehicles the suspects have access to.

Hope you guys can flesh out both scenarios with more questions & thoughts.

[justbetweenus]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/

In this video, is Tara's hair dyed again? I dont see those horrid streaks anymore. Just curious.

I tell ya...they're just feather clip on roach clips lol j/k. No, can't see the coloured streaks in this video.

[another nosey mom]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/

In this video, is Tara's hair dyed again? I dont see those horrid streaks anymore. Just curious.


I also noticed that, all hair seems to be one colour again

[justbetweenus]

I've been thinking about the vehicle a lot this afternoon. There are two likely scenarios in play:

1. LE thinks that the vehicle is not involved in the abduction and do just wish to speak to the potential witness.
2. LE suspects that the vehicle is involved somehow and sending out a message.

In either case, there are questions and possible logical thoughts:

1. Vehicle Not Involved Directly
Q - Why has the person/s not come forward?
A - Can you recall each child, child w/ adult, single adult you saw most recently when you drove past a school? Do you look? (you probably do more now that you're on WS) Were you looking in that direction, i.e. towards school? We you talking on your cell phone or adjusting your radio/cd player while driving? Drinking a Timmie's so your head was slightly tilted upwards right then? Was the person even from Woodstock? Did they know they were near Fyfe &/or Walter? It was late afternoon - was there sun glare preventing clear vision?

I can think of many, many reasons why the person might not have come forward. They might not know what they saw, or they might not have even 'seen' anything at all depending on where their attention was at that moment.

2. Vehicle Directly Involved
Q. If LE is late in releasing this, why?
A. Perhaps nursing home security tapes showed that the car wasn't just driving by and was also in the Parking lot at some point.
Q. Would LE release this as a teaser to suspects to let them know they're closing in?
A. IMO, nope. If they were close enough to tease suspects I would think they'd already know what type of vehicles the suspects have access to.

Hope you guys can flesh out both scenarios with more questions & thoughts.

It's very suspicious since Maitland said it was busy with traffic that day, and they've been able to locate all on tape but this one. JMO

[LuckyPenny]

Thanks LP. Is that nearby the school?

It is on the same side of town, but not really close railway tracks separate them as well.

[White Hawk]

Someone mentioned on the Toronto Star comments sections of the article for today that the police might be releasing this simply to send the abductors a message that they are closing in.

Why would they do that? If the perp(s) think that LE is close they are going to pack up and hit the road. Also, the first rule for a criminal is NOT TO GET CAUGHT WITH THE EVIDENCE. That means that they would drop Tori off anywhere just to get rid of her, (that would be good) or if she is still alive, they would get rid of the evidence and a witness all at the same time, (That would not be good)

[ChaChaCha]

It's very suspicious since Maitland said it was busy with traffic that day, and they've been able to locate all on tape but this one. JMO



You guys have been sooooooooo busy! Great work!

A question: I could swear that the first video that was ever released of the abduction was one of the pair walking down the street and a greenish van driving behind them - going the other way. I remember being surprised at the video when I saw it again, as it had changed. Does anyone know where the video is from the day after the abduction?

Second question: TM's mom lives just a couple of blocks from TM. What does grandma drive? Is it possible that TM borrowed the car to visit gramps at the nursing home - or to bring him something - and since she was parked in the back lot anyways, just walked over to get Tori?

Is it possible that they drove off somewhere and there was an accident (i.e. suffocation or a fatal push) or did TM just take Tori and hide her somewhere? TM seems pretty confident these days that Tori is coming back.

I can't believe that Facebook post! Talk about dishing it out!

Also, the $3,500 they raised at the ride is peanuts in my opinion. Ten years ago we did a fundraiser dinner and dance for a friend's young son and raised over $12G in a single night... and that was with less than 200 people....

Did I hear her say too that they were going to the bank to deposit it? Who in their right mind gave them CASH????

I think that this one is going to end with a bang. Even Casey Anthony messed up with her computer. Nothing is ever gone forever...

[canadiansugarangel]

Do you know anything about her having had a dog go missing recently too (it's been reported that someone wrote that in FB on her behalf)? I don't have access to her FB to confirm.

BTW - I'm newish here (been lurking till now). TIA
I know their dog ran out of the house alot, i use to take the bus in front of thier old house, and thier dog use to run out the door and scamper across the yards and street, fast little guy he was. Was wondering why he hasn't been seen lately.
So he mya have ran away or maybe he was taken first (as a warnign as to what mya happen?)

[crazyladi]

imo it looks like a small station wagon (vw or something??)


It looks like a ford taurus

[Turbododger]

Okay, Tara was at the Nursing Home at 3 pm. This to me is a BOMBSHELL HUH???? Where did this information come from, specifically? Anyone? This nursing home has been on our minds since Thread #1....but LuckyPenny was the one who let us know there was an actual connection there to the family.

If police are selectively, strategically releasing video, where is the urgency in finding Tori? There is something ulterior in motive here, this is not a simple witness request, IMO.

Where is the video of Tori & POI going into the building?

[LuckyPenny]

Also, the $3,500 they raised at the ride is peanuts in my opinion. Ten years ago we did a fundraiser dinner and dance for a friend's young son and raised over $12G in a single night... and that was with less than 200 people....

Did I hear her say too that they were going to the bank to deposit it? Who in their right mind gave them CASH????

Your right CASH!! That's not traceable. Maybe $3,500 is the amount that is being deposited. Maybe more than that was raised and the rest is just being pocketed. I just dont see how they 'only' made that with that many bikers and some of them just giving cash ie. remember hearing in the news someone just handed a $20 bill.

[girlfriday]

I tell ya...they're just feather clip on roach clips lol j/k. No, can't see the coloured streaks in this video.

That makes me chuckle...because saddly I do rememeber those things ... might have even had one ... way back when :eek:

[ThoughtElf]

Why would they do that? If the perp(s) think that LE is close they are going to pack up and hit the road. Also, the first rule for a criminal is NOT TO GET CAUGHT WITH THE EVIDENCE. That means that they would drop Tori off anywhere just to get rid of her, (that would be good) or if she is still alive, they would get rid of the evidence and a witness all at the same time, (That would not be good)

I'd like to have more hope, but I just don't see how they can 'un-ring the bell' at this point if someone still has Tori alive. At 8 years old, Tori will have the ability to articulate pretty clearly as much as she could recall about the who/what/where/when of her circumstances over the past month now. If the intent was to hide Tori the only option is to keep her forever now without returning her - or they will most assuredly get caught. That bell has been rung and can't be un-rung now.

Sadly, I don't believe that is the case. I always hear TM's statement ringing in my ears over and over, "Just drop her in an empty field somewhere." That makes zero sense coming from a Mom. Why? So she can fend for herself in the open without food, water or shelter? Why under any circumstances would there be an expectation that an empty field would be a good drop off spot?

Sounds more like guilt or guidance for a dumping ground. And I think LE caught on to that statement, too, as it was shortly after this that they issued the request to farmers to watch out for Tori.

[LuckyPenny]

Okay, Tara was at the Nursing Home at 3 pm. This to me is a BOMBSHELL HUH???? Where did this information come from, specifically? Anyone? This nursing home has been on our minds since Thread #1....but LuckyPenny was the one who let us know there was an actual connection there to the family.

If police are selectively, strategically releasing video, where is the urgency in finding Tori? There is something ulterior in motive here, this is not a simple witness request, IMO.

Where is the video of Tori & POI going into the building?

Actually it wasnt me that brought the connection between the nursing home and the family. I was unaware of that. But it is VERY good info to know.

A "source" advised us that there is more video from the highschool and when that source asked LE when they were going to release it, LE said "lets not go there".

[ThoughtElf]

That makes me chuckle...because saddly I do rememeber those things ... might have even had one ... way back when :eek:

Last week? :wink:

[girlfriday]

I know their dog ran out of the house alot, i use to take the bus in front of thier old house, and thier dog use to run out the door and scamper across the yards and street, fast little guy he was. Was wondering why he hasn't been seen lately.
So he mya have ran away or maybe he was taken first (as a warnign as to what mya happen?)

Thanks for the info. Do you know what kind of dog was it?

[girlfriday]

Last week? :wink:

He he....many many many moons ago :) - we used to hang them from our purses - when fringes where in.

[justbetweenus]

That makes me chuckle...because saddly I do rememeber those things ... might have even had one ... way back when :eek:

There is especially one presser where I thought it really looked like that was what she was wearing lol.

[White Hawk]

I'd like to have more hope, but I just don't see how they can 'un-ring the bell' at this point if someone still has Tori alive. At 8 years old, Tori will have the ability to articulate pretty clearly as much as she could recall about the who/what/where/when of her circumstances over the past month now. If the intent was to hide Tori the only option is to keep her forever now without returning her - or they will most assuredly get caught. That bell has been rung and can't be un-rung now.

Sadly, I don't believe that is the case. I always hear TM's statement ringing in my ears over and over, "Just drop her in an empty field somewhere." That makes zero sense coming from a Mom. Why? So she can fend for herself in the open without food, water or shelter? Why under any circumstances would there be an expectation that an empty field would be a good drop off spot?

Sounds more like guilt or guidance for a dumping ground. And I think LE caught on to that statement, too, as it was shortly after this that they issued the request to farmers to watch out for Tori.

Have to agree with you. In regards to my earlier post, I was just going by what I know for sure. The exception would be if they know who is responsible but Tori is not with them. In that case, they would have to go pick her up from another location. And naturally, they would have company not far behind them watching every move they make.

[PenelopePetunia]

Someone was gutsy enough to ask RS (not dad but uncle) these questions on FB he just answered:

"RS is the family allowed to verify some basic facts based on the rumour mills?

1. Are or were TM and JG ever associated with any motorcycle organizatios
2. Was tara visiting the nursing home?
3. Are the allegations against JG accurate, and are they possibly relevant?
4. Did they confiscate any one elses' computer?
5. Does the famiy believe the police know more than what they will right now tell the publlic?

We are praying for her safe return"

Answer:

There a lots of rumors going around, if I had answers for them all then we would probably be having a celebration party right now, but I don't

[PenelopePetunia]

He's online now....

[White Hawk]

[QUOTE=PenelopePetunia;3698046]Someone was gutsy enough to ask RS (not dad but uncle) these questions on FB he just answered:

"RS is the family allowed to verify some basic facts based on the rumour mills?

1. Are or were TM and JG ever associated with any motorcycle organizatios
2. Was tara visiting the nursing home?
3. Are the allegations against JG accurate, and are they possibly relevant?
4. Did they confiscate any one elses' computer?
5. Does the famiy believe the police know more than what they will right now tell the publlic?

We are praying for her safe return"



Regarding question #1....Which one of Tori's relatives was busted several years ago when 16 people were arrested on some type of drug charges. Also, were there not some thoughts going around about a trial going on right now concerning some murders where a gang member was involved and that this relative might be a witness to this?

[LuckyPenny]

Someone was gutsy enough to ask RS (not dad but uncle) these questions on FB he just answered:

"RS is the family allowed to verify some basic facts based on the rumour mills?

1. Are or were TM and JG ever associated with any motorcycle organizatios
2. Was tara visiting the nursing home?
3. Are the allegations against JG accurate, and are they possibly relevant?
4. Did they confiscate any one elses' computer?
5. Does the famiy believe the police know more than what they will right now tell the publlic?

We are praying for her safe return"

Answer:

There a lots of rumors going around, if I had answers for them all then we would probably be having a celebration party right now, but I don't


Possible answer to question #1

Jacklin said she had hoped during the event that someone might drop off the child, who has now been missing for more than three weeks.

Still, she was grateful for the support shown by the motorcycle community.

"I'm really proud of the motorcycle community and of Woodstock," she said. "It's amazing what the motorcycle community will do for one of its own."

Source: http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1552226

[Turbododger]

This car is a 1996 Ford Focus, IMO. Both the ZX5 (5 Dr Hatchback) and the ZXW Wagon have a 103" (262 CM) Wheelbase.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu164/Letteropener/a_woodstock.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu164/Letteropener/afocus_zxw.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu164/Letteropener/afocus.jpg

[ThoughtElf]

Have to agree with you. In regards to my earlier post, I was just going by what I know for sure. The exception would be if they know who is responsible but Tori is not with them. In that case, they would have to go pick her up from another location. And naturally, they would have company not far behind them watching every move they make.

ITA. That is a tough consideration. Still lends itself to our other theory in that you'd have to ask the question: After all of this (i.e. publicity/investigation) would they still go pick Tori up?

I think this case is going to be a very bumpy ride.

[PepperFritz]

I have a question for PepperFritz. If they used the parking lot further behind the building, would they have to drive around the back and turn onto Fyfe again going past the Caressant care in the same direction the car was seen travelling (north on Fyfe I believe)? I know I sound confusing but I am trying to fit this car into the picture.

Yes, they would have to turn around and come out the way they came in, via Fyfe Avenue; there is separate exit/entrance to the back parking lot. I wish I could produce a still capture from Google Maps in satellite mode, so I could show you, but I can't.

However, please note that if you were WALKING, you COULD exit from the back parking lot and get onto Norwich Avenue; I know because I've done it myself.

[crazyladi]

doesnt that connection with the dog they have go back to family day at the dog park?? i didnt realise they had a dog. They have a dog?

The LE must have a lot on whoever has her, or whoever knows where she is at this time. Maybe they are trying to sink Tara.. Notice how close The ex has gotten with her during these pressers? I want to think that he is pretending to act supportive when he really knows shes not, just to catch her, but he seems genuine with her for some reason. He did mention the slip up on that last clip in what he may have mentioned that people took the wrong way "even if Tara is involved" or something along those lines. Funny maybe hulk hogan threatened to kick his ass if he didnt straighten out what he had said. Where has the hulk been anyways??

[elepher50]

This car is a 1996 Ford Focus, IMO. Both the ZX5 (5 Dr Hatchback) and the ZXW Wagon have a 103" (262 CM) Wheelbase.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu164/Letteropener/afocus_zxw.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu164/Letteropener/afocus.jpg

Hey Turbo - I been waiting on you ... LOL. I have looked and looked at the pix that the police have released of the vehicle and I can only find two makes that would match that funny triangular shaped window in the back ... but I don't know what wheelbases they would be. If I post the pix and makes/models can you help?

[elepher50]

[QUOTE=crazyladi;3698149]doesnt that connection with the dog they have go back to family day at the dog park?? i didnt realise they had a dog. They have a dog?

QUOTE]

Hi crazyladi, I keep going back to Family Day in the park as well. Grandma had a doggie too. Something but something happened or connected in the park on that day maybe.

[PepperFritz]

I believe someone on here has family that works at the nursing home and can say that she TM was there visiting??? maybe Pepper??

Yes, my cousin and housemate works at Caressant Care. However, she works Nights and wasn't at the nursing home on the day of the abduction, she came into work 11pm that night.

I spoke to her just now, before she went to work, and she said she didn't hear anything about Tara being there that day (which really makes me question that; is that just rumour, or has it been confirmed?). However, she did say that on the day Tori went missing, there were police all over Caressant Care, searching every square inch of it -- rooms, closets, boiler rooms, cupboards, refrigerators, basements, etc -- so they obviously thought there was a possibility that Tori herself might have been in the building.

[nursebeeme]

Earlier I posted about 2 of Tori's class mates seeing TM put Tori in a car .. wonder if this is the car? Hi Lucky! Did they specifically say TM????

[Turbododger]

Rob Stafford (Rodney's brother) posted these answers to questions asked:

Rob is the family allowed to verify some basic facts based on the rumour mills?

1. Are or were Tara and James ever associated with any motorcycle organizatios
2. Was tara visiting the nursing home?
3. Are the allegations against James accurate, and are they possibly relevant?
4. Did they confiscate any one elses' computer?
5. Does the famiy believe the police know more than what they will right now tell the publlic?

We are praying for her safe return.

Answered by Rob:

1. Don't know 2. Don't know 3. Don't know 4. Don' know 5. I hope so

[PepperFritz]

From the London Free Press Article:
"The nursing home has a video camera pointing to the parking lot and intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, but a supervisor there wouldn't say if police had taken tape from that camera as well."

But that's NOT the parking lot that they have been talking about! The Caressant Care administrative offices are located at the intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, and there is a very small parking lot there. But there is another driveway and parking lot nearer to the school, further South on Fyfe, which is the one that all visitors and staff use; that's the one that leads to another large parking lot in the back.

Wish I had a picture so I could show you.

[Turbododger]

Another question posed to Rob:

ROB: Did Tori always live in Woodstock?

Answered by Rob: Nope, Verschoyle and in London

[LuckyPenny]

Hi Lucky! Did they specifically say TM????

Yes I was told they specifically said TM. These are children Tori's age, but the police did interview them 2x.

[CarrieBean]

Yes, they would have to turn around and come out the way they came in, via Fyfe Avenue; there is separate exit/entrance to the back parking lot. I wish I could produce a still capture from Google Maps in satellite mode, so I could show you, but I can't.

However, please note that if you were WALKING, you COULD exit from the back parking lot and get onto Norwich Avenue; I know because I've done it myself.
These parking lots, Pepper? Labeled 1 and 2.
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/532/torinursinghome.jpg

[nursebeeme]

Yes I was told they specifically said TM. These are children Tori's age, but the police did interview them 2x.[B]WOW!!![B]
thanks for that! You know, I think that just put the last nail in the coffin for TM in my opinion! What reason would these children have to lie? What do you think LE is up to if they do think it is Tara in the video? Why is she still free? Does anyone think they are setting her up/following her???

[Turbododger]

Hey Turbo - I been waiting on you ... LOL. I have looked and looked at the pix that the police have released of the vehicle and I can only find two makes that would match that funny triangular shaped window in the back ... but I don't know what wheelbases they would be. If I post the pix and makes/models can you help?

Yep, go ahead, I used to be a car dealer in a former life, but don't hold that against me. :bang:

[elepher50]

Yes, they would have to turn around and come out the way they came in, via Fyfe Avenue; there is separate exit/entrance to the back parking lot. I wish I could produce a still capture from Google Maps in satellite mode, so I could show you, but I can't.

However, please note that if you were WALKING, you COULD exit from the back parking lot and get onto Norwich Avenue; I know because I've done it myself.

Here is a still capture that shows what you describe:

[White Hawk]

Did somebody just make my monitor smaller or did they make the screen larger!

[Flowercb]

But that's NOT the parking lot that they have been talking about! The Caressant Care administrative offices are located at the intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, and there is a very small parking lot there. But there is another driveway and parking lot nearer to the school, further South on Fyfe, which is the one that all visitors and staff use; that's the one that leads to another large parking lot in the back.

Wish I had a picture so I could show you.

I can picture it. I just was curious if it was possible that they walked behind the building to a parking lot that required them to drive past the front again heading north (that would make it possible that Tori was in the green car they are showing).

[White Hawk]

Did somebody just make my monitor smaller or did they make the screen larger!

It's ok now...I think one of the Mods are out to get me!

[CarrieBean]

Did somebody just make my monitor smaller or did they make the screen larger!
I reposted a smaller picture, if that had anything to do with it.

Or maybe the mods are just out to get you. ;)

[PepperFritz]

These parking lots, Pepper?


Yes!! Those are the parking lots.

Tori and the strange woman would have walked into the driveway in the photo which a white car is turning into, from Fyfe.. If you follow that drive straight down to where there is shadow from the building's overhang, that corner in there where you can see a covered walkway between the buildings, is where there is a "porch" area with outside chairs, lounges, etc. where visitors and staff enter. If you follow the drive south and around the curve, you come to the "back" parking lot, from which there is no exit by car.

I know this area very well, because I share a car with my cousin, and used to pick her up when she used to work afternoons (now she's on permanent nights). I always brought the dogs with me. I'd arrive purposely early and first take them to Tori's school for a run around, then drive over to Caressant Care and park. If she wasn't out yet, I would walk around the grounds with the dog, then sit in the "porch" area with them until she came out.

[Turbododger]

Actually it wasnt me that brought the connection between the nursing home and the family. I was unaware of that. But it is VERY good info to know.

A "source" advised us that there is more video from the highschool and when that source asked LE when they were going to release it, LE said "lets not go there".

Bolded by Me: Sorry, Lucky, it was PepperFritz, bringing over from an earlier post:

"Please note that Tori's grandfather is a resident at Caressant Care, and that she has been there many times in the past. I don't know whose side of the family the grandfather is from."

[elepher50]

Yep, go ahead, I used to be a car dealer in a former life, but don't hold that against me. :bang:

LOL Turbo, I caught on early on that you know cars real good. Here goes -sorry it took so long - had to put them into bitmap so they would load up - I am leaning towards the Optra because I think there is a grill type thingy sort of in the police pix:

[PepperFritz]

Regarding question #1....Which one of Tori's relatives was busted several years ago when 16 people were arrested on some type of drug charges. Also, were there not some thoughts going around about a trial going on right now concerning some murders where a gang member was involved and that this relative might be a witness to this?

That is Tara's boyfriend, James Goris.

[LuckyPenny]

[B]WOW!!![B]
thanks for that! You know, I think that just put the last nail in the coffin for TM in my opinion! What reason would these children have to lie? What do you think LE is up to if they do think it is Tara in the video? Why is she still free? Does anyone think they are setting her up/following her???


These 2 children walked home with Tori a lot. I'm hesitant to put the nail in the coffin based on what these young kids say. I'm sure they wouldnt lie however, I dont know from what distance they saw etc. And if that girl on the couch beside TM on the one news story looks that close to TM they could have got them mixed up (or even another lady). However, I do think this IMO supports that TMs side knows something.

As much as I sometimes want to think TM is guilty, I have a hard time putting all the links together to say for sure 100% as even with all of us sleuthing we still dont have every piece to the puzzle. But we sure know more information that the media & police let on.

[CarrieBean]

Yes!! Those are the parking lots.

Tori and the strange woman would have walked into the driveway in the photo which a white car is turning into, from Fyfe.. If you follow that drive straight down to where there is shadow from the building's overhang, that corner in there where you can see a covered walkway between the buildings, is where there is a "porch" area with outside chairs, lounges, etc. where visitors and staff enter. If you follow the drive south and around the curve, you come to the "back" parking lot, from which there is no exit by car.

I know this area very well, because I share a car with my cousin, and used to pick her up when she used to work afternoons (now she's on permanent nights). I always brought the dogs with me. I'd arrive purposely early and first take them to Tori's school for a run around, then drive over to Caressant Care and park. If she wasn't out yet, I would walk around the grounds with the dog, then sit in the "porch" area with them until she came out.
But Tori and the woman were seen on video walking by/towards the smaller parking lot on the NW side of the building, no?

[PepperFritz]

doesnt that connection with the dog they have go back to family day at the dog park?? i didnt realise they had a dog. They have a dog?

I wasn't going to mention this, but seeing as people are now saying that they might have a dog....

A few days ago I was at the local PetValu store in Ingersoll. As I was getting in my car, my mouth fell open because I swear I saw Tara get out of a red truck and go into the PetValu store. The woman saw me gaping at her and just GLARED at me. She was wearing the white "hoodie" that Tara has worn in many of her press conferences.

Afterwards, I told myself that I MUST have seen wrong, because to my knowledge they didn't have any pets, and the truck looked way to new and expensive. But now I wonder....

[crazyladi]

same thing happened to me i closed it and left it closed for about 10 mins and came back and my screen is fine now

[Flowercb]

Just trying to see if this link works. Caressant Care Map.

http://maps.live.com/?q=81+Fyfe+Avenue%2C+Woodstock%2C+Ontario&FORM=MSNH56&mkt=en-ca&setLang=en-CA

[justbetweenus]

Yes I was told they specifically said TM. These are children Tori's age, but the police did interview them 2x.

You would think they would be having some long interrogations with Tara at the station.

[PepperFritz]

Bolded by Me: Sorry, Lucky, it was PepperFritz, bringing over from an earlier post:
"Please note that Tori's grandfather is a resident at Caressant Care, and that she has been there many times in the past. I don't know whose side of the family the grandfather is from."

My cousin has now corrected me on that. Apparently it is her GREAT-Grandfather.

[Flowercb]

Press arial and roll into the place where is shows 81 Fyfe. Then you can see the building and the parking lots.

[PepperFritz]

But Tori and the woman were seen on video walking by/towards the smaller parking lot on the NW side of the building, no?

That's not my understanding. It would make no sense. Those are the administrative offices, and it's not where family members go when visiting; staff don't even go there.

[White Hawk]

same thing happened to me i closed it and left it closed for about 10 mins and came back and my screen is fine now

WHEW! At least I am not going crazy yet. I thought somebody had spiked my coffee!

OPPS...Forgot about you Alias!

[CarrieBean]

That's not my understanding. It would make no sense. Those are the administrative offices, and it's not where family members go when visiting; staff don't even go there.
I believe the video was taken further North on Fyfe, near Walter.

[ThoughtElf]

Press arial and roll into the place where is shows 81 Fyfe. Then you can see the building and the parking lots.


Works well. TY

[PepperFritz]

This claim that they have security-camera footage FROM CARESSANT CARE really has me baffled, as my cousin swears up and down there there are no security-cameras whatsoever anywhere at Caressant Care, either inside or out. Apparently this has been a bone of contention between the staff/union and the administrators (i.e. staff want security cameras, and administration says they can't afford it/don't need them).

[Turbododger]

Anyone in this stretch of street within 2 hours either way of the abduction, would be racking their brands IMO to try and recollect anything, and would have come forward. If they were local, I should think it would be virtually impossible not to have heard about it.

LE is putting the heat on, for those who know of someone with a wagon vehicle similar to this.

Wagon style vehicles, are far less popular than a standard sedan car. There would be a smaller sampling of this type of car compared to others, so it should narrow things down considerably. I would think LE would have ran a report at the License Bureau on registrations for the Wagon vehicles, as this is a specific designation on the ownership of the vehicle.

[ChaChaCha]

This claim that they have security-camera footage FROM CARESSANT CARE really has me baffled, as my cousin swears up and down there there are no security-cameras whatsoever anywhere at Caressant Care, either inside or out. Apparently this has been a bone of contention between the staff/union and the administrators (i.e. staff want security cameras, and administration says they can't afford it/don't need them).

QUOTING MYSELF FROM EARLIER:

A question: I could swear that the first video that was ever released of the abduction was one of the pair walking down the street and a greenish van driving behind them - going the other way. I remember being surprised at the video when I saw it again, as it had changed. Does anyone know where the video is from the day after the abduction?
Second question: TM's mom lives just a couple of blocks from TM. What does grandma drive? Is it possible that TM borrowed the car to visit gramps at the nursing home - or to bring him something - and since she was parked in the back lot anyways, just walked over to get Tori?

[CarrieBean]

This claim that they have security-camera footage FROM CARESSANT CARE really has me baffled, as my cousin swears up and down there there are no security-cameras whatsoever anywhere at Caressant Care, either inside or out. Apparently this has been a bone of contention between the staff/union and the administrators (i.e. staff want security cameras, and administration says they can't afford it/don't need them).
Rob Stafford posted on FB tonight also that they didn't have video cameras at the home. Just a rumour I suppose?

[elepher50]

Through the tape, investigators also determined Tori and the woman, seen walking north on the west side of Fyfe, crossed to the east side and into the north parking lot of the Caressant Care Nursing and Retirement Home.

The nursing home has a video camera pointing to the parking lot and intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, but a supervisor there wouldn't say if police had taken tape from that camera as well.



Taken from: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/05/04/9347286.html

[ChaChaCha]

Rob Stafford posted on FB tonight also that they didn't have video cameras at the home. Just a rumour I suppose?

I almost don't think it is a rumour... I remember a couple of weeks ago there was a news article that we dismissed as being erroneous saying that there was film showing the pair walking into a neaby building.... there is ANOTHER camera out there that had film that the police kept to themselves... Don't want to spill the beans all at once.

Right then you could almost figure that there was more footage out there...

[CarrieBean]

QUOTING MYSELF FROM EARLIER:

A question: I could swear that the first video that was ever released of the abduction was one of the pair walking down the street and a greenish van driving behind them - going the other way. I remember being surprised at the video when I saw it again, as it had changed. Does anyone know where the video is from the day after the abduction?
Second question: TM's mom lives just a couple of blocks from TM. What does grandma drive? Is it possible that TM borrowed the car to visit gramps at the nursing home - or to bring him something - and since she was parked in the back lot anyways, just walked over to get Tori?
The original video that was released did have a green van (?) driving south on Fyfe. I don't recall it changing. :confused:

[justbetweenus]

Yes!! Those are the parking lots.

Tori and the strange woman would have walked into the driveway in the photo which a white car is turning into, from Fyfe.. If you follow that drive straight down to where there is shadow from the building's overhang, that corner in there where you can see a covered walkway between the buildings, is where there is a "porch" area with outside chairs, lounges, etc. where visitors and staff enter. If you follow the drive south and around the curve, you come to the "back" parking lot, from which there is no exit by car.

I know this area very well, because I share a car with my cousin, and used to pick her up when she used to work afternoons (now she's on permanent nights). I always brought the dogs with me. I'd arrive purposely early and first take them to Tori's school for a run around, then drive over to Caressant Care and park. If she wasn't out yet, I would walk around the grounds with the dog, then sit in the "porch" area with them until she came out.

So that is Fyfe on the left hand side (our left looking at the monitor) of Carrie's picture?

[Turbododger]

LOL Turbo, I caught on early on that you know cars real good. Here goes -sorry it took so long - had to put them into bitmap so they would load up - I am leaning towards the Optra because I think there is a grill type thingy sort of in the police pix:

Okay, the 2005 Optra has a 102.36" Wheel Base, 2006 Optra has a 102.1" WB, and the 2007 Optra has a 102.4" WB, all close enough to be considered. I am with you on this being the more likely of the two, though I still think it could be a Focus.

The 2005 Malibu Wagon has a 106.3" WB, so not as likely to be it.

[elepher50]

QUOTING MYSELF FROM EARLIER:

A question: I could swear that the first video that was ever released of the abduction was one of the pair walking down the street and a greenish van driving behind them - going the other way. I remember being surprised at the video when I saw it again, as it had changed. Does anyone know where the video is from the day after the abduction?
Second question: TM's mom lives just a couple of blocks from TM. What does grandma drive? Is it possible that TM borrowed the car to visit gramps at the nursing home - or to bring him something - and since she was parked in the back lot anyways, just walked over to get Tori?

Hi ChaChaCha, Here is the link that shows the green van - it is at the beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSRgJyPJQ0

[ThoughtElf]

Anyone in this stretch of street within 2 hours either way of the abduction, would be racking their brands IMO to try and recollect anything, and would have come forward. If they were local, I should think it would be virtually impossible not to have heard about it.

LE is putting the heat on, for those who know of someone with a wagon vehicle similar to this.

Wagon style vehicles, are far less popular than a standard sedan car. There would be a smaller sampling of this type of car compared to others, so it should narrow things down considerably. I would think LE would have ran a report at the License Bureau on registrations for the Wagon vehicles, as this is a specific designation on the ownership of the vehicle.

ITA. Not too many people would purchase a wagon without specific need for a wagon. Wagon implies one of three things or a combination - these would be the most likely profile owners for a wagon, I think:

1. family car - normal driver has kids
2. pet owner - has wagon to transport med/large dog?
3. Business use - sales w/ product/samples as wagon cargo, delivery

Else - stolen for specific purpose of transporting 'disabled/knocked out' child/person in cargo area.

[CarrieBean]

So that is Fyfe on the left hand side (our left looking at the monitor) of Carrie's picture?
Yeppers. ("yes" was too short of a message) :confused:

[elepher50]

Okay, the 2005 Optra has a 102.36" Wheel Base, 2006 Optra has a 102.1" WB, and the 2007 Optra has a 102.4" WB, all close enough to be considered. I am with you on this being the more likely of the two, though I still think it could be a Focus.

The 2005 Malibu Wagon has a 106.3" WB, so not as likely to be it.

Thanks Turbo ... I agree it could be a Focus. Now, lets talk money for a minute. Between the Focus, Optra, and the Malibu and assuming they all are from the 2006-2007 year range, do you know roughly which of these would be the most expensive and the least expensive?

[ThoughtElf]

Taken from: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/05/04/9347286.html

Can you update the fact thread with this, pls?

[stellarkix]

Hey everyone,

I've decided to come out of lurker mode and try to contibute. I have spent many hours going through all of the threads for Tori, and have finally come to this page.

All your work is great, and you all have amazing theories etc.

As for the car, how about a Kia Rondo?

http://3img.automotive.com/p/003C55EE8EDD0AC897908ED055FFDEDAE523F5524EC0FE3DF7 8B68F31B030478F14A0739C147F6F180D3BC5E2EE1F96519A7 A78395B6EC1037206CDAF2DAB08B05D6E18C8B3E49E132CAB0 299EBED9BA61717247D99A3819298F56ACD9B3E0B34750312F 28A308D2074E5C79D88457078DF21D101EEEA1AAFA8F51CA+w 240+h180/image.jpg

Kia Rio?

http://3img.automotive.com/p/006E2D6A4851E8135AF614185DD67C845307357D6B90C1C8F6 F962A066D58F9C96FE6CEC7966763EB8A0B0DD2C15C59D9B8B 3BEA81AB81ECB55450F13EE37C1B8951813C9AC1F6848CC07A E5C81D491B949565B08C3751D5671A9384EE73CAE339FB1455 767FD3CA292B8937FD30840A962FE2A7411BA110+w640/image.jpg


Just a thought... Was there any information about the car, other than "station wagon".. Like the year? How did you guys come up with the wheel measurements?

[elepher50]

ITA. Not too many people would purchase a wagon without specific need for a wagon. Wagon implies one of three things or a combination - these would be the most likely profile owners for a wagon, I think:

1. family car - normal driver has kids
2. pet owner - has wagon to transport med/large dog?
3. Business use - sales w/ product/samples as wagon cargo, delivery

Else - stolen for specific purpose of transporting 'disabled/knocked out' child/person in cargo area.

The ads for the Optra advertize a huge cargo area.

[PepperFritz]

So that is Fyfe on the left hand side (our left looking at the monitor) of Carrie's picture?

yes, that's right.

[ThoughtElf]

Yeppers. ("yes" was too short of a message) :confused:

Hey Carrie. Msgs must be at least 5 characters long. You can pad short ones out with periods, tildes, etc.

i.e. YES!!

[Turbododger]

Taken from Thread # 1, regarding the 2nd video:
Posted by Dee10:

I thought the reports asking about more video footage was very interesting. It seems as Tara is not aware nor has been shown extra footage than what we have seen. I found that very interesting because reporters have their sources. Also a teacher on another board has said there is another camera in the parking lot and where is that footage?

[elepher50]

Hey everyone,

I've decided to come out of lurker mode and try to contibute. I have spent many hours going through all of the threads for Tori, and have finally come to this page.

All your work is great, and you all have amazing theories etc.

As for the car, how about a Kia Rondo?

http://3img.automotive.com/p/003C55EE8EDD0AC897908ED055FFDEDAE523F5524EC0FE3DF7 8B68F31B030478F14A0739C147F6F180D3BC5E2EE1F96519A7 A78395B6EC1037206CDAF2DAB08B05D6E18C8B3E49E132CAB0 299EBED9BA61717247D99A3819298F56ACD9B3E0B34750312F 28A308D2074E5C79D88457078DF21D101EEEA1AAFA8F51CA+w 240+h180/image.jpg

Kia Rio?

http://3img.automotive.com/p/006E2D6A4851E8135AF614185DD67C845307357D6B90C1C8F6 F962A066D58F9C96FE6CEC7966763EB8A0B0DD2C15C59D9B8B 3BEA81AB81ECB55450F13EE37C1B8951813C9AC1F6848CC07A E5C81D491B949565B08C3751D5671A9384EE73CAE339FB1455 767FD3CA292B8937FD30840A962FE2A7411BA110+w640/image.jpg


Just a thought... Was there any information about the car, other than "station wagon".. Like the year? How did you guys come up with the wheel measurements?

Hi stellarkix - WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS. The wheelbase information was taken from a news release from the OPP website here:
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1705048267&view=11636-2&Start=0

[CarrieBean]

I almost don't think it is a rumour... I remember a couple of weeks ago there was a news article that we dismissed as being erroneous saying that there was film showing the pair walking into a neaby building.... there is ANOTHER camera out there that had film that the police kept to themselves... Don't want to spill the beans all at once.

Right then you could almost figure that there was more footage out there...
I recall reading that article. I sent them an email asking for verification but never did get a response. It was the only place I saw that claim.

[wen]

ChaChaCha, I found the video from the day of the abduction on the London Free Press site. I tried unsuccessfully to post the link here. There is a green vehicle driving in the opposite direction. It looks like a van to me though.

[Flowercb]

As per PepperFritz:

"If you follow the drive south and around the curve, you come to the "back" parking lot, from which there is no exit by car."

How is it a parking lot if you can't exit it by car. lol

[White Hawk]

QUESTION FOR THE LOCALS............Everybody is guessing Ford, Pontiac, etc. The last time I was in Europe, back in 1902, I hardly saw an American car. Are they more prevalent now?

[PepperFritz]

The nursing home has a video camera pointing to the parking lot and intersection of Fyfe and Walter Street, but a supervisor there wouldn't say if police had taken tape from that camera as well.

Okay, the police had NOT said that they have a tape from Caressant Care. It sounds as though a reporter called Caressant Care to ask if they have a security camera there, and they may have been too embarassed to admit that they don't (since it has been a bone of contention between staff and administration). Or maybe they have a "dummy camera" there for deterance purposes (that's quite common), and that's why they're being cagey about whether a tape exists or not.

Have they released the video of Tori and her abductor going into the Caressant Care driveway? If so, can anyone direct me to the page where I can view it?

[CarrieBean]

As per PepperFritz:

"If you follow the drive south and around the curve, you come to the "back" parking lot, from which there is no exit by car."

How is it a parking lot if you can't exit it by car. lol
I think she meant no exit out the back, lol.

[justbetweenus]

Just trying to see if this link works. Caressant Care Map.

http://maps.live.com/?q=81+Fyfe+Avenue%2C+Woodstock%2C+Ontario&FORM=MSNH56&mkt=en-ca&setLang=en-CA

Thank-you! Took me a bit, but I got it...LOL

[elepher50]

Can you update the fact thread with this, pls?

Sure thing - done and I must remember to do this as this is a great repository that is being built.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[PepperFritz]

How is it a parking lot if you can't exit it by car. lol

I meant that there wasn't a SEPARATE exit/entrance, leading out to Norwich Avenue. As I said in an earlier post, to get out of the parking lot you have to turn around and go out the same way you came in -- around the curve and then west out the parking lot onto Fyfe.

[ThoughtElf]

Hi stellarkix - WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS. The wheelbase information was taken from a news release from the OPP website here:
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1705048267&view=11636-2&Start=0


Ditto - Welcome StellarKix.

Do we have to be firmly committed to the 103"/262 cm? The article does say 'approximately' so we might not want to rule out any possibilities with a +/- factor of some sort as we have to assume that they're guessing in calculations from the still photos.

Turbo - what would be a reasonable +/- factor - or are you dead set committed to the Focus?

[ThoughtElf]

QUESTION FOR THE LOCALS............Everybody is guessing Ford, Pontiac, etc. The last time I was in Europe, back in 1902, I hardly saw an American car. Are they more prevalent now?

Ok, that cracked me up.

[justbetweenus]

I recall reading that article. I sent them an email asking for verification but never did get a response. It was the only place I saw that claim.

Do you recall if it was that e-Canada site?

[ThoughtElf]

OT - Hi Nursie. :wave:

[elepher50]

QUESTION FOR THE LOCALS............Everybody is guessing Ford, Pontiac, etc. The last time I was in Europe, back in 1902, I hardly saw an American car. Are they more prevalent now?

Hi White Hawk, Probably not prevalent in Europe even now ... Tori is missing from London, Ontario Canada so there are tons of American made cars. I am guessing you maybe thought London England or have I misunderstood your question - if so I apologize.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[CarrieBean]

Do you recall if it was that e-Canada site?
I can't be sure but that sounds familiar.

ETA: Just checked and it was
http://www.ecanadanow.com/news/canada/police-release-sketch-of-victoria-stafford-abductor-20090422.html

[ChaChaCha]

America's Most Wanted segments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2389G5xOaUI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4vjS2Xw_w&feature=related

[greatwhitenorth]

Hubby wants me to put in his 2 cents worth. He says its an audi wagon....

There done.

[elepher50]

Hubby wants me to put in his 2 cents worth. He says its an audi wagon....

There done.

Excellent - now we are off to look at it.

[White Hawk]

Hi White Hawk, Probably not prevalent in Europe even now ... Tori is missing from London, Ontario Canada so there are tons of American made cars. I am guessing you maybe thought London England or have I misunderstood your question - if so I apologize.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

OK....That's stupid #1 for me tonight! I have no idea why I was comparing Canada with Europe. However, I was curious if there were tons of American made cars there. Thanks for not making me look as dumb as I feel!

[Turbododger]

Thanks Turbo ... I agree it could be a Focus. Now, lets talk money for a minute. Between the Focus, Optra, and the Malibu and assuming they all are from the 2006-2007 year range, do you know roughly which of these would be the most expensive and the least expensive?

Average Selling Price in London, ON & surrounding area is as follows:

2006 Chev Optra $11,990 (135 cars available for sale, used, autotrader.ca)

2006: Chev Malibu $11,996 (14 Cars available for sale, used, autotrader.ca)

2006 Ford Focus $12,386 ( 133 Cars available for sale, used, autotrader.ca)

Similar vehicle, really. Average, canadian, family car.

[elepher50]

Here is the Audi Wagon - the triangular window looks good:


Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[elepher50]

Average Selling Price in London, ON & surrounding area is as follows:

2006 Chev Optra $11,990 (135 cars available for sale, used, autotrader.ca)

2006: Chev Malibu $11,996 (14 Cars available for sale, used, autotrader.ca)

2006 Ford Focus $12,386 ( 133 Cars available for sale, used, autotrader.ca)

Similar vehicle, really. Average, canadian, family car.

Thanks Turbo - I thought maybe we should explore the money angle to see if we could glean anything about the person who could possibly own one - but like you say ...average...average...and average .. sigh.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[ThoughtElf]

OK....That's stupid #1 for me tonight! I have no idea why I was comparing Canada with Europe. However, I was curious if there were tons of American made cars there. Thanks for not making me look as dumb as I feel!

Don't feel bad. It isn't as if London, ON is a world reknowned metropolis. I'd bet many people thought the same thing.

I just cracked up because of the 1902 reference you old thang, you! :crazy:

[Amster]

How does one go about having a facebook acct. removed?? Because you don't agree with the content.

[ChaChaCha]

I recall that it was reported that Tori's grandma WALKED into the police station to report Tori missing... assuming that is different than WALKED TO the police station.. what does Grandma drive (a nice station wagon maybe, good for hauling grandchildren and dogs) and did TM have her car that day? (my daughter has my car more than I do - can you imagine how dumb I look at my age driving a sporty little black car with three - count em three! carseats in the back? Sigh....)

[nursebeeme]

OT - Hi Nursie. :wave:
OT back... hey you spud!!! :blowkiss:

[elepher50]

Don't feel bad. It isn't as if London, ON is a world reknowned metropolis. I'd bet many people thought the same thing.

I just cracked up because of the 1902 reference you old thang, you! :crazy:

Damm, I never noticed the 1902 - White Hawk are you serious - that was before World War 1????

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[nursebeeme]

Here is the Audi Wagon - the triangular window looks good:


Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

certainly does have that triangularish window in the back..

[elepher50]

How does one go about having a facebook acct. removed?? Because you don't agree with the content.

Nigh to impossible - they won't remove them. Practically impossible.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[White Hawk]

Don't feel bad. It isn't as if London, ON is a world reknowned metropolis. I'd bet many people thought the same thing.

I just cracked up because of the 1902 reference you old thang, you! :crazy:

You sound like my wife now!

[Turbododger]

Sure thing - done and I must remember to do this as this is a great repository that is being built.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

I am feeling guilty that I have been sleuthing the new information released today, and have not spent time updating that VERY important thread. I will try my best to have all links and video's for the 6 threads done by the weekend, although I pray that Tori will come home and it will not be necessary.

[ChaChaCha]

How does one go about having a facebook acct. removed?? Because you don't agree with the content.

If you read the rules and regs of facebook it sets out the guidelines. FB can close you down, or if they receive complaints about a certain site, they can close it down and tag the ISP address to limit further FBs being opened...

You can close your own facebook whenever you like...

Does this answer the question? I wasn't sure if you were talking about making a complaint or closing your own????

[Amster]

Nigh to impossible - they won't remove them. Practically impossible.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

So, how did Rob Stafford do it? :waitasec:

[White Hawk]

Sorry to be so full of questions with not much to offer tonight but I have been out of pocket for a couple of weeks. Can anyone point me to a link that shows a picture Tara's friend Sara?

[ChaChaCha]

I am feeling guilty that I have been sleuthing the new information released today, and have not spent time updating that VERY important thread. I will try my best to have all links and video's for the 6 threads done by the weekend, although I pray that Tori will come home and it will not be necessary.

Aha my friend! It will still be necessary! That way we can go back and follow all the clues and lies and "mis-statements" he he he .... Your work is so GREATLY APPRECIATED! Let's have a round of applause!!!

[Amster]

If you read the rules and regs of facebook it sets out the guidelines. FB can close you down, or if they receive complaints about a certain site, they can close it down and tag the ISP address to limit further FBs being opened...

You can close your own facebook whenever you like...

Does this answer the question? I wasn't sure if you were talking about making a complaint or closing your own????

No...I don't have one. lol. An article says Stafford got one shut down because the person/people were implicating Tara.

[CarrieBean]

Damm, I never noticed the 1902 - White Hawk are you serious - that was before World War 1????

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738
Geesh, and I can barely remember last week. :crazy:

[Turbododger]

Ditto - Welcome StellarKix.

Do we have to be firmly committed to the 103"/262 cm? The article does say 'approximately' so we might not want to rule out any possibilities with a +/- factor of some sort as we have to assume that they're guessing in calculations from the still photos.

Turbo - what would be a reasonable +/- factor - or are you dead set committed to the Focus?

I would say a +/- 1" would be reasonable, but given the experts involved in giving this assessment, would say it's fairly accurate within an inch.

I am not dead set on the Focus, am always open to interpretation. I have to hit the hay, but will have another look in the a.m.

Night all.

[girlfriday]

You sound like my wife now!

She doesn't believe you were in Europe in 1902 neither? :crazy: ;)

[greatwhitenorth]

certainly does have that triangularish window in the back..

I zoomed in and you can almost see the three circle logo of audi on the green. Not 100% sure but hmmm.

[White Hawk]

Damm, I never noticed the 1902 - White Hawk are you serious - that was before World War 1????

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

OK...Anybody else wanna kick me when I'm down?

[greatwhitenorth]

And I meant grill. Sorry I got excited about the logo
Smile!

[ChaChaCha]

So, how did Rob Stafford do it? :waitasec:

I think that was easy! Whomever had the "I hate TM" site posted links to their site on their site... no no no!

And remember my note that the site was apparently "IMPLICATING" TM - not accusing, or speculating or implying - but implicating. That's a big thing - especially if it offered evidence to support its claim... that would be shut down in a heartbeat.

Otherwise, I think it was just a matter of a high profile case and the possibility of a slander/defamation suit - FB would fall all over itself to get rid of it quicktime!!!

I have a legal background so it wouldn't take much IMO to get it gone...

[elepher50]

So, how did Rob Stafford do it? :waitasec:

I don't know but I would like to know his secret as there is one in particular I would like to have shut down never to resurface.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[just_curious]

So, how did Rob Stafford do it? :waitasec:

There is a "report" button on every FB page.
Its my understanding that quite a few people reported that page, however it seems to be back on now.

[justbetweenus]

I can't be sure but that sounds familiar.

ETA: Just checked and it was
http://www.ecanadanow.com/news/canada/police-release-sketch-of-victoria-stafford-abductor-20090422.html

Thanks for checking CarrieBean. I find this site very unreliable.

[Turbododger]

Now the cost analysis on an Audi is a whole different thing, different market, different driver.

[greatwhitenorth]

I agree on cost but have you seen what some high school teachers drive. You would be surprised.

JMO

[Amster]

I think that was easy! Whomever had the "I hate TM" site posted links to their site on their site... no no no!

And remember my note that the site was apparently "IMPLICATING" TM - not accusing, or speculating or implying - but implicating. That's a big thing - especially if it offered evidence to support its claim... that would be shut down in a heartbeat.

Otherwise, I think it was just a matter of a high profile case and the possibility of a slander/defamation suit - FB would fall all over itself to get rid of it quicktime!!!

I have a legal background so it wouldn't take much IMO to get it gone...

Thanks....it just sounded odd to me. And a little unsettling. Because I think Tara is involved....big time!

ooops....in my opinion....

[canadiansugarangel]

Yes!! Those are the parking lots.

Tori and the strange woman would have walked into the driveway in the photo which a white car is turning into, from Fyfe.. If you follow that drive straight down to where there is shadow from the building's overhang, that corner in there where you can see a covered walkway between the buildings, is where there is a "porch" area with outside chairs, lounges, etc. where visitors and staff enter. If you follow the drive south and around the curve, you come to the "back" parking lot, from which there is no exit by car.

I know this area very well, because I share a car with my cousin, and used to pick her up when she used to work afternoons (now she's on permanent nights). I always brought the dogs with me. I'd arrive purposely early and first take them to Tori's school for a run around, then drive over to Caressant Care and park. If she wasn't out yet, I would walk around the grounds with the dog, then sit in the "porch" area with them until she came out.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=76668&id=634740888&saved#/photo.php?pid=1832622&id=634740888

If you notice Tori is walking opposite the larger parking lots of the nursing home, they both walked towrds the smaller parking lot, would this be a possibility?

[elepher50]

Now the cost analysis on an Audi is a whole different thing, different market, different driver.

Whoa there Turbo ... how much is a 2006 Audi?

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[justbetweenus]

America's Most Wanted segments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2389G5xOaUI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4vjS2Xw_w&feature=related

This is GTA most wanted. Did you mean to post America's Most wanted?

[CarrieBean]

Sorry to be so full of questions with not much to offer tonight but I have been out of pocket for a couple of weeks. Can anyone point me to a link that shows a picture Tara's friend Sara?
This girl here? Around 1:10 in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inoeIcrvqdY

[Turbododger]

The "profile" on an Audi driver is quite a bit different than one driving a Focus or Optra Wagon.

There would definately NOT be many Audi's in Woodstock, now London or TO on the other hand.....

[ChaChaCha]

I don't know but I would like to know his secret as there is one in particular I would like to have shut down never to resurface.

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738


Maybe this will help you... bit of guidance for complaints:
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31374&sid=b731725157e0c9631d549c822b4511f7

[Turbododger]

Whoa there Turbo ... how much is a 2006 Audi?

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

I need a model.

[girlfriday]

Sorry to be so full of questions with not much to offer tonight but I have been out of pocket for a couple of weeks. Can anyone point me to a link that shows a picture Tara's friend Sara?


( Find Episode #121 04/19/09 ) http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/globalshows/16x9/video.html?releasePID=TpGQI1SXroaajjlDcD9MC0xWrTJa oppf

[ChaChaCha]

This is GTA most wanted. Did you mean to post America's Most wanted?

Crap...of course it is GTA... I am over-tired and not thinking clearly. Twelve more minutes and I should go to bed and TRY to sleep...

Aplogies guys... I was hoping.... really good segment though... shows ground views of the area, and maps of the area... re-enactment... if you haven't seen it you should take a few minutes and check it out...

Gosh, I wish the sirens would wail and they would go get that baby and return her safely to her family!

[Turbododger]

I am running with 2006 Audi A6:

Average price $33,875 in London & Surrounding Area, (1 listed in autotrader.ca)

For further reference,

Average price in All of Ontario $32,697 (20 listed total, autotrader.ca, used)

[Dee10]

Maybe this will help you... bit of guidance for complaints:
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31374&sid=b731725157e0c9631d549c822b4511f7

OMG I lost the link to this site when my hard-drive crash & forgot the name as well. THANK YOU, especially after Oprah today, I wanted to go there.:blowkiss::woohoo:

[ThoughtElf]

I am feeling guilty that I have been sleuthing the new information released today, and have not spent time updating that VERY important thread. I will try my best to have all links and video's for the 6 threads done by the weekend, although I pray that Tori will come home and it will not be necessary.

You've done a great job!! I've felt guilty so I'm trying to help a bit more by creating a 'case players' post which is currently an ongoing WIP. It's over on the facts thread for a preview.

Do you want to split the work on the 6 threads? I am off all day tomorrow so I can do a few threads for you, if you like?

[PepperFritz]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=76668&id=634740888&saved#/photo.php?pid=1832622&id=634740888

If you notice Tori is walking opposite the larger parking lots of the nursing home, they both walked towrds the smaller parking lot, would this be a possibility?

Sorry, I do not have access to FaceBook. Is the picture available somewhere else?

[SuziQ]

I zoomed in and you can almost see the three circle logo of audi on the green. Not 100% sure but hmmm.

It's actually a 4 circle. I just helped my daughter hunt down a used A-4.

I'm going to guess a 2006 or so Audi wagon would be about 20K retail in the US.

[ThoughtElf]

So, how did Rob Stafford do it? :waitasec:

I think it is a bit different in their case. Their family is directly effected publicly and possibly eventually legally by the content that he had FB remove. Direct hate-mongering when a child is missing is a pretty good reason for FB to have shut it down.

And kudos to Rob for getting it done!

[justbetweenus]

Crap...of course it is GTA... I am over-tired and not thinking clearly. Twelve more minutes and I should go to bed and TRY to sleep...

Aplogies guys... I was hoping.... really good segment though... shows ground views of the area, and maps of the area... re-enactment... if you haven't seen it you should take a few minutes and check it out...

Gosh, I wish the sirens would wail and they would go get that baby and return her safely to her family!

Oh no problem at all. I didn't see the America's most wanted segment so i was curious. I agree this GTA one is excellent! I've watched it several times now.

[ThoughtElf]

OK...Anybody else wanna kick me when I'm down?

Hold right there a sec while I change shoes first. hmmm... now where did I put my golf shoes? :D

[Turbododger]

You've done a great job!! I've felt guilty so I'm trying to help a bit more by creating a 'case players' post which is currently an ongoing WIP. It's over on the facts thread for a preview.

Do you want to split the work on the 6 threads? I am off all day tomorrow so I can do a few threads for you, if you like?

Thanks for the offer. I started at Thread #1. The first large link post, is from Thread #1, pages 1-10. Now, I tried to go back on and add pages 11 to close for Thread # 1 to keep them all together, but the mod's don't let you after so long (it was the next day). I was trying to keep them all together, for easy reference, and chronological, hence the need for speed, because if people post there now, then the new will be mixed in with the old. I also wanted to put the LE releases of video, sketches, all at the top, but again, I can't edit. I should contact a mod or something maybe, to edit after 1440 minutes.

Anyway, if there was a key headline in the post, I included it where I could. I simply copy and paste the links, in the order they were posted, trying not to duplicate.

Any help would be appreciated, for it to be useful, it should be done chronologically, sometimes you vaguely remember when something was written about....

Gotta go to bed.

[greatwhitenorth]

Thanks Suzie, hubby is already sleeping and this was his brain storm. I did zoom in on the photo and one thing I do know they look like circles, and i know that audi BUT it wouldnt be the first time I was wrong.

smile!

[canadiansugarangel]

Sorry, I do not have access to FaceBook. Is the picture available somewhere else?
on my computer not sure how to upload it

[ThoughtElf]

Now the cost analysis on an Audi is a whole different thing, different market, different driver.

True. And the number in the area would be far fewer. Likely limited to local professionals like doctors, lawyers, etc.

Most people who can afford the higher-end autos who buy wagons would first go for a Volvo due to the safety ratings, wouldn't they? I can't recall the last time I have seen an Audi wagon.

[CarrieBean]

on my computer not sure how to upload it
Would you like me to put it on imageshack so it's viewable here?

[girlfriday]

I know their dog ran out of the house alot, i use to take the bus in front of thier old house, and thier dog use to run out the door and scamper across the yards and street, fast little guy he was. Was wondering why he hasn't been seen lately.
So he mya have ran away or maybe he was taken first (as a warnign as to what mya happen?)

Hi there,

I see you are back online. Thanks for the info. Do you know what kind of dog it is?

[elepher50]

on my computer not sure how to upload it

This is what I picked off the link you had above - is this what you wanted uploaded?:

[White Hawk]

Hold right there a sec while I change shoes first. hmmm... now where did I put my golf shoes? :D

Cute!

[ThoughtElf]

Thanks for the offer. I started at Thread #1. The first large link post, is from Thread #1, pages 1-10. Now, I tried to go back on and add pages 11 to close for Thread # 1 to keep them all together, but the mod's don't let you after so long (it was the next day). I was trying to keep them all together, for easy reference, and chronological, hence the need for speed, because if people post there now, then the new will be mixed in with the old. I also wanted to put the LE releases of video, sketches, all at the top, but again, I can't edit. I should contact a mod or something maybe, to edit after 1440 minutes.

Anyway, if there was a key headline in the post, I included it where I could. I simply copy and paste the links, in the order they were posted, trying not to duplicate.

Any help would be appreciated, for it to be useful, it should be done chronologically, sometimes you vaguely remember when something was written about....

Gotta go to bed.

I'm going to suggest that you consider a method used in Caylee's forum. Rather than trying to group by thread, Media Links are recorded by the date. For example, if you consistently post each day and title the post with the date, it will be much easier to track chronologically.

Title each day's link post like so: 2009.05.04 - Media Links

You (we) could also do: 2009.05.04 - New Facts

Many of the other forums here on WS use a system like that and it is very helpful when looking back through the case history. You don't necessarily have to post them chronologically if each set has it's own date title, KWIM? You can still search through the thread for the post for that specific date.

The added advantage if we start this now is that the Mods might be gracious enough to separate them into different threads for us if there is ever a Tori forum. :wink:

[justbetweenus]

I think it is a bit different in their case. Their family is directly effected publicly and possibly eventually legally by the content that he had FB remove. Direct hate-mongering when a child is missing is a pretty good reason for FB to have shut it down.

And kudos to Rob for getting it done!

O/T

PotatoHead I tried to leave a message on your profile but I'm not sure you have it open for messages. You have on the facts thread that Tara and Rodney seperated last Dec, and they have been for 6 years. Hope you don't mind me correcting you.:) Take care.

[canadiansugarangel]

Hi there,

I see you are back online. Thanks for the info. Do you know what kind of dog it is?
it was a small dog, not sure what kind, he was cute.
Also
I use to sit at the bus shelter waiting for the bus, several times the two kids would come home for lunch and find the door locked, they waited outside for mom, and sometimes neighbours would give them something to eat, mom showed up jsut as the bell rang and the kids had to run back.

[canadiansugarangel]

This is what I picked off the link you had above - is this what you wanted uploaded?:
thats the one

[girlfriday]

Cute!

I was feelin sorry for ya since yer such an old bug'r (I got you at give or take 127 yrs old) so I posted a video link that shows TM's friend. On the couch and I think she is the one who hands over 'Cloe' the doll.

[girlfriday]

it was a small dog, not sure what kind, he was cute.
Also
I use to sit at the bus shelter waiting for the bus, several times the two kids would come home for lunch and find the door locked, they waited outside for mom, and sometimes neighbours would give them something to eat, mom showed up jsut as the bell rang and the kids had to run back.

That makes me feel sad :cry:

[ThoughtElf]

O/T

PotatoHead I tried to leave a message on your profile but I'm not sure you have it open for messages. You have on the facts thread that Tara and Rodney seperated last Dec, and they have been for 6 years. Hope you don't mind me correcting you.:) Take care.

TY! Corrections are vital in cases like this.

I got that date from 2 different articles posted on thread 1. Is it possible that they've lived apart for 6 years and only got legally separated in December 2008?

Link 1: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html
(http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html)
Stafford's parents, Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford, separated last December. The father, who described the relationship as "an ongoing struggle," said he doesn't believe any of Victoria's relatives are behind her disappearance.

Link 2: http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2009/04/12/9094431.html

Stafford and McDonald separated in December and he called the relationship “an ongoing struggle.”
“I’ve had a lot of problems come up in my life and stuff like that, and I haven’t always been there for my kids, but this is my baby girl and it’s absolutely hurting now,” Stafford said.



If someone has details with a link other than these two articles, that would be great. TYIA!

[elepher50]

Here is a pix of TM's friend SG - Sara is standing right of Tara:

Confirmed FACTS and LINKS ONLY on the Victoria Stafford Abduction Case, click here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738

[ThoughtElf]

it was a small dog, not sure what kind, he was cute.
Also
I use to sit at the bus shelter waiting for the bus, several times the two kids would come home for lunch and find the door locked, they waited outside for mom, and sometimes neighbours would give them something to eat, mom showed up jsut as the bell rang and the kids had to run back.

Tori's maternal grandmother has a small white dog named Bob after her late husband. Could that be it? Perhaps he is back at Gma's house?

[elepher50]

it was a small dog, not sure what kind, he was cute.
Also
I use to sit at the bus shelter waiting for the bus, several times the two kids would come home for lunch and find the door locked, they waited outside for mom, and sometimes neighbours would give them something to eat, mom showed up jsut as the bell rang and the kids had to run back.

This makes me ............. :banghead:

[White Hawk]

I was feelin sorry for ya since yer such an old bug'r (I got you at give or take 127 yrs old) so I posted a video link that shows TM's friend. On the couch and I think she is the one who hands over 'Cloe' the doll.

Well I sure do preciate it! I'm still going strong for my age!. Now, i need to get somebody to move this mouse fur me ( my hands ache a lot ) and I need to find my specs so I can find the screen. I'll find it sometime tonight though!

[justbetweenus]

TY! Corrections are vital in cases like this.

I got that date from 2 different articles posted on thread 1. Is it possible that they've lived apart for 6 years and only got legally separated in December 2008?

Link 1: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html
(http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html)
Stafford's parents, Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford, separated last December. The father, who described the relationship as "an ongoing struggle," said he doesn't believe any of Victoria's relatives are behind her disappearance.

Link 2: http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2009/04/12/9094431.html

Stafford and McDonald separated in December and he called the relationship “an ongoing struggle.”
“I’ve had a lot of problems come up in my life and stuff like that, and I haven’t always been there for my kids, but this is my baby girl and it’s absolutely hurting now,” Stafford said.



If someone has details with a link other than these two articles, that would be great. TYIA!

Hmm very well could be legally seperated or divorced last december.

[just_curious]

it was a small dog, not sure what kind, he was cute.
Also
I use to sit at the bus shelter waiting for the bus, several times the two kids would come home for lunch and find the door locked, they waited outside for mom, and sometimes neighbours would give them something to eat, mom showed up jsut as the bell rang and the kids had to run back.

You have got to be kidding.
Thats terrible!

[greatwhitenorth]

I agree the audi is a higher end vehicle but I also took into concideration kitchener,and waterloo are 20min away and london is approx 35 so maybe the vehicle is not from woodstock?????


Jmo

[elepher50]

I agree the audi is a higher end vehicle but I also took into concideration kitchener,and waterloo are 20min away and london is approx 35 so maybe the vehicle is not from woodstock?????


Jmo

Hmmm ... don't think there are too many high end vehicles in Kitchener/Waterloo .... none that I ever noticed when there on business in the past. Toronto - yes.

[justbetweenus]

TY! Corrections are vital in cases like this.

I got that date from 2 different articles posted on thread 1. Is it possible that they've lived apart for 6 years and only got legally separated in December 2008?

Link 1: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html
(http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/13/missing-girl.html)
Stafford's parents, Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford, separated last December. The father, who described the relationship as "an ongoing struggle," said he doesn't believe any of Victoria's relatives are behind her disappearance.

Link 2: http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2009/04/12/9094431.html

Stafford and McDonald separated in December and he called the relationship “an ongoing struggle.”
“I’ve had a lot of problems come up in my life and stuff like that, and I haven’t always been there for my kids, but this is my baby girl and it’s absolutely hurting now,” Stafford said.



If someone has details with a link other than these two articles, that would be great. TYIA!

Ok I found this from the LFP which I find to be very reliable.

McDonald noted she and Rodney Stafford -- Tori's dad, from whom she's been separated since 200 * -- have met daily since the April 8 disappearance, saying "Rodney and I are united."


http://fyilondon.com/perl-bin/publish.cgi?x=articles&p=262930&s=missing

I think I need to go to bed lol. I didn't see the asterisk, thinking it was 2000.

ETA again lol. further down in this article it says 6 years.

[ThoughtElf]

Hmmm ... don't think there are too many high end vehicles in Kitchener/Waterloo .... none that I ever noticed when there on business in the past. Toronto - yes.

KW has a nice VW/Audi dealership. Mind you when you do see high-end models in that region, they tend to be Beemers or North American made vs. something like an Audi.

Example: A Chrysler 300 starts off higher ($32/33,000) than an Audi A3 ($31,000) in the KW region.

[ThoughtElf]

Ok I found this from the LFP which I find to be very reliable.

McDonald noted she and Rodney Stafford -- Tori's dad, from whom she's been separated since 200 * -- have met daily since the April 8 disappearance, saying "Rodney and I are united."


http://fyilondon.com/perl-bin/publish.cgi?x=articles&p=262930&s=missing

I think I need to go to bed lol. I didn't see the asterisk, thinking it was 2000.

ETA again lol. further down in this article it says 6 years.

Awesome! Thanks for staying up to find that. I will go correct the post on the facts thread. :blowkiss:

[justbetweenus]

Awesome! Thanks for staying up to find that. I will go correct the post on the facts thread. :blowkiss:

Oh no problem. I hope it's fact..LOL. I'm pretty sure it is though.:)

[greatwhitenorth]

KW has a nice VW/Audi dealership. Mind you when you do see high-end models in that region, they tend to be Beemers or North American made vs. something like an Audi.

Example: A Chrysler 300 starts off higher ($32/33,000) than an Audi A3 ($31,000) in the KW region.

I have tried everything with my lexmark photo to clear up the logo on the grill and can you say frustrated!!! I can spell it..ha ha

Anyway that's the key to the vehicle type but sorry things are not co operating this late evening...

JMO

[butterfly1978]

Can someone explain to me WHY Tori is still missing?
We have a sketch, a video, a possible car, several witnesses and Tori is still gone... Why? when they have solved crimes with next to nothing. This was done in broad daylight, in front of Camera's for God sakes and three weeks later Tori is still gone. Can some one tell me why?
They have solved cases with nothing more than a dead maggot, no suspect no nothing. What does the dand kidnapper have to walk into the dang police station and say I kidnapped her sorry her ya go,
UGGGGG SORRY this is just ridiculous, I mean crazy. WHERE IS TORI???????

[PenelopePetunia]

So, how did Rob Stafford do it? :waitasec:

I don't know if someone has answered this because I'm not finished reading last nights posts... however,

one can report a page which is spam, or attacks on an individual. I guess if they receive enough reports .. FB will close down the page.

[canadianwhitedove]

I zoomed in and you can almost see the three circle logo of audi on the green. Not 100% sure but hmmm.


I noticed that two. The one on the video is a little blurry but the emblem is too large to be the Ford although the vehicle size and look did fit the bill. I am glad someone else notice the emblem too. :clap:

[kaas]

This article gives us the suspected route taken by the adbuctor and Tori:

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/05/9350976-sun.html
'Police also revealed yesterday the abductor -- an unknown woman -- and Tori crossed a street and headed into the parking lot of a nursing home before disappearing. '
"Through the tape, investigators also determined Tori and the woman, seen walking north on the west side of Fyfe, crossed to the east side and into the north parking lot of the Caressant Care Nursing and Retirement Home"
"Walter Street runs at right angles to Fyfe, and leads to a walkway that connects to Highway 59 -- one of the key routes in and out of Woodstock"

If you look at this map, you can see the "basketball" court on the west side of Fyfe where the camera is located. At the end of the video we see what appears to be the abductor turning to lead Tori across the street and presumably in to the parking lot at the north side of the nursing home. That small parking lot could have been where the "getaway vehicle was parked" but it also gives a shortcut to Walter, at the end of which is a walkway to Norwich Ave (Hwy 59).
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=woodstock+ontario&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=27.382728,78.75&ie=UTF8&ll=43.123994,-80.742506&spn=0.001887,0.004807&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A

[Flowercb]

There aren't very many houses down walter street from the looks of it. Once she walked down the street with Tori she was "home free" to Hwy. 59.

[Flowercb]

Update on Christine the psychics site:

http://www.christinehamlett.com/index.asp?pageid=143219

She says she has a good idea who is behind this abduction but can't really say.

[CarrieBean]

I noticed that two. The one on the video is a little blurry but the emblem is too large to be the Ford although the vehicle size and look did fit the bill. I am glad someone else notice the emblem too. :clap:
To me it looks like it may be closer to a Chevy emblem. Many Chevys have the chrome strip going across the grill with the emblem in the centre. I too tried to sharpen it and it's too darn blurry. :banghead:

[another nosey mom]

To me it looks like it may be closer to a Chevy emblem. Many Chevys have the chrome strip going across the grill with the emblem in the centre. I too tried to sharpen it and it's too darn blurry. :banghead:

I still say this car is a Saturn 1997-99 - I googled images of this car and they look spot on: here is the link, what do you think?

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Saturn-1997-Saturn-SW2-Station-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ114033925

[Turbododger]

I'm going to suggest that you consider a method used in Caylee's forum. Rather than trying to group by thread, Media Links are recorded by the date. For example, if you consistently post each day and title the post with the date, it will be much easier to track chronologically.

Title each day's link post like so: 2009.05.04 - Media Links

You (we) could also do: 2009.05.04 - New Facts

Many of the other forums here on WS use a system like that and it is very helpful when looking back through the case history. You don't necessarily have to post them chronologically if each set has it's own date title, KWIM? You can still search through the thread for the post for that specific date.

The added advantage if we start this now is that the Mods might be gracious enough to separate them into different threads for us if there is ever a Tori forum. :wink:

We can run with that, I am pretty new to WS, so thanks for the suggestion. I will have a glance at lunch on the Caylee forum, to see what you mean. Sounds good to me, anything to make it easier. Just trying to catch it up, for reference.

[crazyladi]

Okay here is my two cents.

Grandma used to take them to school and pick them up, but on that day she only dropped them off, why is that? And she must have had a car because i could have sworn that I heard it somewhere that she would drive them. So she didnt pick them up and she supposably walked to the police station, where was her car? And if that was her car in this picture and TM was putting Tori in this car maybe Grandma has done something with her? Nothing bad i assume because you can tell she loves them. If this was the case you would also believe that the Grandmother has some sense and if she did take her why wouldnt she have told police already and let this charade continue. So another option is that Tara borrowed her car and she was the one driving it and her friend was the one picking her up from school, hense why Grandma didnt have a car to pick them up that day. If Tara didnt get back until six could she have taken tori somewhere in the car? Where is the grandmas car? This car would pass as a grandma car in my opinion. Wagon, because of dog and grandkids etc.. this is all JMO of course.

There are just so many questions unanswered straight from the begininng..

I am sure none of what I wrote made any sense whatsoever because i dont think before i write i just write what I am thinking lol...

[elepher50]

At the 00:05 mark of the video of the Brantford vigil http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457is a view of who I believe is Rodney Stafford, James Goris and an unidentified young woman. I compared the individuals to photos found at http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?x=galleries&s=gallery&p=2975&pg=61

Hi kaas, I have looked and don't see anything on that video link above at the 00:05 mark with RS, JG, and unidentifed young woman ... can you check the link and let me know if this is the right link or provide a name of the video?

[tsalta]

Good Morning Everyone:
I have an answer as to whether or not there are camera's on the Care Facility. City TV's Breakfast Television just did a piece on the Tori story and showed full frontal of the building and there is at least one camera mounted on the roof.
Just wanted to help clear the air on this.
Have a great day everyone.

[CarrieBean]

I still say this car is a Saturn 1997-99 - I googled images of this car and they look spot on: here is the link, what do you think?

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Saturn-1997-Saturn-SW2-Station-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ114033925
I agree it looks like the Saturn, but the grill is off. I haven't seen a Chevy, wagon or hatchback, that resembles that car. Plus it looks like the headlights are set off more to the side rather than the front, like on the Saturn.

[CarrieBean]

Good Morning Everyone:
I have an answer as to whether or not there are camera's on the Care Facility. City TV's Breakfast Television just did a piece on the Tori story and showed full frontal of the building and there is at least one camera mounted on the roof.
Just wanted to help clear the air on this.
Have a great day everyone.
Where on the building was the camera? Wondering if it's a working camera.

ETA: Not sure how accurate this is, but Rob Stafford posted this last night. I believe he's talking about the nursing home..

"Rob Stafford (London, ON) wrote
at 9:42pm yesterday
The camera wasn't installed on the building till after that date"
http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=78966007726&page=73&hash=2e749359f64d6a51981d1c79e7bc9306#/wall.php?id=78966007726&page=75&hash=a92ecfe45cdaaf2484661b11508af39c

[Flowercb]

Good Morning Everyone:
I have an answer as to whether or not there are camera's on the Care Facility. City TV's Breakfast Television just did a piece on the Tori story and showed full frontal of the building and there is at least one camera mounted on the roof.
Just wanted to help clear the air on this.
Have a great day everyone.


You're kidding I was just watching breakfast television where they were making donuts (I never watch it) and then I decided to turn it off. Sorry that I missed the segment on Tori. Great to hear about the camera. I wonder if it was always there or if they decided to start "tracking" in this area.

[doubletrouble]

Can someone explain to me WHY Tori is still missing?
We have a sketch, a video, a possible car, several witnesses and Tori is still gone... Why? when they have solved crimes with next to nothing. This was done in broad daylight, in front of Camera's for God sakes and three weeks later Tori is still gone. Can some one tell me why?
They have solved cases with nothing more than a dead maggot, no suspect no nothing. What does the dand kidnapper have to walk into the dang police station and say I kidnapped her sorry her ya go,
UGGGGG SORRY this is just ridiculous, I mean crazy. WHERE IS TORI???????

well ill try not to get into the political side of things buutttt when the police take taras computer three weeks later..imo not the speed of light...and tori is not considered abducted until a week or so later cuz police just cant put their finger on things and want to think she is a missing person....i just dont see any super sonic sleuthing by the police...i am seeing more answers on this site tho...crazy but true and moo...ty:confused:

[paris_paris]

At the 00:05 mark of the video of the Brantford vigil http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457is a view of who I believe is Rodney Stafford, James Goris and an unidentified young woman. I compared the individuals to photos found at http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?x=galleries&s=gallery&p=2975&pg=61

kaas, the family confirmed last night that James Goris is not the man in that video. And Rodney? He is not in that video either. The fact that the woman in the video looks so much like the sketch has been reported to police.

[doubletrouble]

Update on Christine the psychics site:

http://www.christinehamlett.com/index.asp?pageid=143219

She says she has a good idea who is behind this abduction but can't really say.

is this the same psychic who is laying stake to the reward claim of the cantu murder..stating that she sent a tracy resident a text stating cantu was in a ravine somewhere? now the reward is out...and she is stating that she knows who has her..but cant say till it comes out..omg talk about someone fixed on the almighty dollars signs...im sorry but if she is the same psychic..something stinks....:(

[tsalta]

Where on the building was the camera? Wondering if it's a working camera.

As best as I can tell the news report was being done at the corner of Fyfe and Walter, there is a big sign on the lawn in front of the building. If you were standing in front of the sign as was the reporter looking so as you can the sign and the front of the building the camera was located on the roof of the building the right hand corner, Camera appears to be pointed to see the parking/entry area. Not sure that it would be able to pick up any thing from the road on Fyfe and Walter.
Attached a picture marked as to the camera location and sign location. Hope this works and helps

[CarrieBean]

kaas, the family confirmed last night that James Goris is not the man in that video. And Rodney? He is not in that video either. The fact that the woman in the video looks so much like the sketch has been reported to police.

This is the correct link. http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457
I can see how this man could be mistaken for Goris. That's not Rodney behind him though. This guy looks a little heavier.

[elepher50]

At the 00:05 mark of the video of the Brantford vigil http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/missing-ont-girl/#clip164457is a view of who I believe is Rodney Stafford, James Goris and an unidentified young woman. I compared the individuals to photos found at http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?x=galleries&s=gallery&p=2975&pg=61

Hi kaas, Got the video at 00:05 showing the mystery woman - was there any one in particular pix at the photo gallery in the LFpress that you compared them to? I don't think that is Rodney in the video nor Goris at the 00:05 mark - looks a bit like Goris - does he have any brothers?

[doubletrouble]

okay..here is what i have gathered with the help of my family...not pros here...it is clearly a van heading opposite way during the abduction...a ford windstar or astrovan..not same car as wagon they are seeking...it appears like a chevy logo on the grill..and it does have smaller triangular window on back...so i do beleive it is the chevy station wagon...looks similar to the saturn...similar but not quite it...is there a chevy malibu station wagon? wish i could stay on..but gotta run and drop off twins jazz unifoms..and tons of errands..hope to see u all around 1pm for tara show

[another nosey mom]

well ill try not to get into the political side of things buutttt when the police take taras computer three weeks later..imo not the speed of light...and tori is not considered abducted until a week or so later cuz police just cant put their finger on things and want to think she is a missing person....i just dont see any super sonic sleuthing by the police...i am seeing more answers on this site tho...crazy but true and moo...ty:confused:

as much as you may think you have deleted from your pc, is still in the pc's memory and will be found by police if they are looking for something, so maybe they have left it this long so that they may have more to work with??? what has been done over the past few weeks in that computer may tell something

[CarrieBean]

As best as I can tell the news report was being done at the corner of Fyfe and Walter, there is a big sign on the lawn in front of the building. If you were standing in front of the sign as was the reporter looking so as you can the sign and the front of the building the camera was located on the roof of the building the right hand corner, Camera appears to be pointed to see the parking/entry area. Not sure that it would be able to pick up any thing from the road on Fyfe and Walter.
Attached a picture marked as to the camera location and sign location. Hope this works and helps
I think I found the video. At around 0:33 in the video (New Clue In Tori Stafford Case video).
http://site.citynews.ca/video/

ETA: time change

[elepher50]

okay..here is what i have gathered with the help of my family...not pros here...it is clearly a van heading opposite way during the abduction...a ford windstar or astrovan..not same car as wagon they are seeking...it appears like a chevy logo on the grill..and it does have smaller triangular window on back...so i do beleive it is the chevy station wagon...looks similar to the saturn...similar but not quite it...is there a chevy malibu station wagon? wish i could stay on..but gotta run and drop off twins jazz unifoms..and tons of errands..hope to see u all around 1pm for tara show

Hi doubletrouble, Yes, there is a Chevy station wagon - in pix from last night's thread:

[Flowercb]

is this the same psychic who is laying stake to the reward claim of the cantu murder..stating that she sent a tracy resident a text stating cantu was in a ravine somewhere? now the reward is out...and she is stating that she knows who has her..but cant say till it comes out..omg talk about someone fixed on the almighty dollars signs...im sorry but if she is the same psychic..something stinks....:(

No she is not the same psychic. This one is on the television series Rescue Mediums and lives in England.

[elepher50]

The stationwagon in the police pix - best candidates based on the triangular window in the back are - I am leaning toward the Optra - Turbo is concentrating on Ford Focus (will put up a pix in a sec):

[tsalta]

I think I found the video. At around 1:40 in the video (New Clue In Tori Stafford Case video).
http://site.citynews.ca/video/

That is the video, they did some snipping though, in the view they showed this morning they showed the entire shot of the building with the reporter standing in front of the sign.

Anyhow there is a camera mounted whether it is a working camera or not I can't answer.
my two cents for now.

[paris_paris]

Just to say it again. All 3 people in that Brantford vigil video are UNKNOWN to the family members. It is not Rodney, and it is not James Goris.

The camera on the nursing home is NEW. It was not there before the abduction, as confirmed by Rob Stafford last night. "The camera wasn't installed on the building till after that date."

[Mazama]

Update on Christine the psychics site:

http://www.christinehamlett.com/index.asp?pageid=143219

She says she has a good idea who is behind this abduction but can't really say.

I'd like to see when she (the psychic) made these statements. It seems there is way too much information that is already known.

I see no dates to confirm what she has seen, before it became public knowledge.

Just seems like she is trying to get in on the media bandwagon and attempt to gain notoriety.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[elepher50]

Ford Focus pix - the triangular window is opposite to the released police pix I think:

[Mazama]

After looking through many car photos I am now thinking the car in the video might be the Audi Avant. Too dang blurry to make out much detail but I could make out what appears to be the slightly extended rear bumper.

Any thoughts or clues to identifiers on this car?

[elepher50]

Based on this still shot taken from the City News - "New Clue in Tori Stafford Case Video" as posted by Carriebean above, there is an emblem or something on the front of the wagon:

[elepher50]

After looking through many car photos I am now thinking the car in the video might be the Audi Avant. Too dang blurry to make out much detail but I could make out what appears to be the slightly extended rear bumper.

Any thoughts or clues to identifiers on this car?

IMO it is either an Audi or the Chevrolet Optra - distintive triangular side window in the back is a good clue.

[greatwhitenorth]

Not sure if this helps as we dont know the year but i also believe its audi. I think its the four circles on the grill. Its just to blurry to identify 100%... JMO

http://www.stationwagon.com/2002_models/2002_models.html

[elepher50]

Here is a side by side of the Optra and the police released pix of the wagon:

[Mazama]

Here's a picture to compare to...

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.autofiends.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/img_4956.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autofiends.com/index.php/2008/05/2009-audi-a4-avant/&usg=__eryNeKQhHtjPQoKOT2Q85t12lTw=&h=533&w=800&sz=57&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=nL8XDUlCENHTIM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgreen%2Baudi%2BA4%2BAvant%2BStation%2 BWagon%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

Sorry, long link :banghead:

[elepher50]

Here is a blow up of the police released pix of the stationwagon alongside the Chevrolet Optra - I can't see any rings (Audi) but see the same shape as in the front of the Optra - but you know what I am sick to death of looking at cars so this is the last pix .... LOL:

ETA: This is a really crappy pix - I will try and do a better one.

[Mazama]

Here is a side by side of the Optra and the police released pix of the wagon:

Elepher, can you do a side by side with the picture of the car I just posted?

[CarrieBean]

Tried brightening it a bit. First time adding attachment..hope it works.

[elepher50]

Better pix hopefully of the police released pix of the wagon and the Optra:

[elepher50]

Elepher, can you do a side by side with the picture of the car I just posted?

Sure - here it is Mazama:

ETA: That is a crappy sidebyside if I ever saw one!

[kaas]

My apologies for posting the photo and links regarding the Brantford vigil. I have deleted my posts regarding this. Elepher and Paris Paris, if you edit your responses it will remove reference as well. Thank you.

[Mazama]

Sure - here it is Mazama:

ETA: That is a crappy sidebyside if I ever saw one!

Thank you Elepher...the more I look at these two images the more I am inclined to believe it is the Audi Avant.

I have a bit more free time this morning, will scour more images. :)

[elepher50]

Thank you Elepher...the more I look at these two images the more I am inclined to believe it is the Audi Avant.

I have a bit more free time this morning, will scour more images. :)

Hi Mazama,

It is getting narrowed down - when I do a blowup of the front of the released pix I don't see the rings associated with an Audi but I think I see the same shaped emblem(thingy) as in the front of the Optra. Price wise an Audi is more expensive than the Optra FWIW. If we could get a clearer pix of the front it would make it easier to identify. I am not stuck on the Optra - only I can't see the rings of an Audi.

[another nosey mom]

Hi Mazama,

It is getting narrowed down - when I do a blowup of the front of the released pix I don't see the rings associated with an Audi but I think I see the same shaped emblem(thingy) as in the front of the Optra. Price wise an Audi is more expensive than the Optra FWIW. If we could get a clearer pix of the front it would make it easier to identify. I am not stuck on the Optra - only I can't see the rings of an Audi.

I'm thinking the car is either an Chev Optra or Saturn, both would be quite similar since they are made by same company, just the logo would be different.

[another nosey mom]

Did the press conf from yesterday ever get released?? I don't see it on any of the usual websites. Also, did the police have any further info released other than the new video's?
Last question is there a press conf today??

[CarrieBean]

Too many car pics...everything is a blur now. The more I blow it up, the more it looks like a grill without an emblem. It's possible it's an after market grill.

Surely the maker of this car could identify it, as blurry as it is. I wonder if LE has sent this out to the car companies.

[Mazama]

Hi Mazama,

It is getting narrowed down - when I do a blowup of the front of the released pix I don't see the rings associated with an Audi but I think I see the same shaped emblem(thingy) as in the front of the Optra. Price wise an Audi is more expensive than the Optra FWIW. If we could get a clearer pix of the front it would make it easier to identify. I am not stuck on the Optra - only I can't see the rings of an Audi.

I'm curious why the price of the car comes into play? I wouldn't think that should matter. We don't even know if this was a local driving by or someone from out of town.

*keeping all options open* :)

[CarrieBean]

I'm curious why the price of the car comes into play? I wouldn't think that should matter. We don't even know if this was a local driving by or someone from out of town.

*keeping all options open* :)
If this car turns out to be a new Audi or a Benz, then I'll be wondering about the mysterious rich benefactor.

[ThoughtElf]

Nothing new in this article, but it does state that the reason the video was not released earlier is that LE was working to enhance it.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1564855

The release of the video -- which was taken shortly after the girl was last seen -- was delayed while officials attempted to enhance its quality, but the exact model of the vehicle is still not known.

[LuckyPenny]

I dont see anything anywhere about a news conference. Tara didnt seem herself in yesterdays conference either (the part I watched anyways)

[Mazama]

So I guess the next question is...if this is a local, do they drive this route often? We're they going to or coming home from work? If so, I would think the car could easily be identified by having the street watched by police everyday for an appx 30 minute time frame, maybe 15 minutes before and after it was seen in the video in hopes of tracking this car and driver down.

If the car is from out of the area, are there any other businesses or cameras that could have possibly got footage of the car in the immediate area that might be useful in identifying this car/driver?

*sigh, I'm getting heartburn over this* :crazy:

[Mazama]

I dont see anything anywhere about a news conference. Tara didnt seem herself in yesterdays conference either (the part I watched anyways)


New hair color, new persona...:crazy:

[paris_paris]

There will be a press conference today. LFP will be there, but it won't be live again... still technical problems. Look for it to be uploaded to their site later today.

[another nosey mom]

I dont see anything anywhere about a news conference. Tara didnt seem herself in yesterdays conference either (the part I watched anyways)

is that the little segment with her and Rodney? If it is what I watched, She seemed pretty quiet compared to other days... and then she went off about how cute her son looked in pink sunglasses, and that is when RS cut her off and got the conf back on topic

[another nosey mom]

So I guess the next question is...if this is a local, do they drive this route often? We're they going to or coming home from work? If so, I would think the car could easily be identified by having the street watched by police everyday for an appx 30 minute time frame, maybe 15 minutes before and after it was seen in the video in hopes of tracking this car and driver down.

If the car is from out of the area, are there any other businesses or cameras that could have possibly got footage of the car in the immediate area that might be useful in identifying this car/driver?

*sigh, I'm getting heartburn over this* :crazy:

If the police figure out the make and model of the car they can run a trace of all of those vehicles registered in the province

[doubletrouble]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/

[doubletrouble]

my hubby says where they get the measurement of the wheel base..is from the center of the one wheel at front or hubcap...to the center of the back(rear wheel) hubcap at back...i didnt know that...but just throwing it out there for those who also didnt know that..lol

[doubletrouble]

i believe it was mazama who posted earlier that if you go to london free press site to where the conferences are..and instead of hitting on air you click on "on demand" than you are given option to may 09 or april 09, you click may 09 and it will give you option of all previous pressers inc yesterday police and tara show...just reiterating some important useful knowledge that i have gained from my friendly sleuthers..

[Turbododger]

Couple of things, most of the names of suspects were local people.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/05/05/9352826-sun.html

LOCAL NAMES

Most of the names were of local people, she said.

Also, if this witness vehicle was a local, they would possibly have that vehicle in that area on camera during the following few weeks after the abduction,wouldn't they? I am not saying this car was picking up a child, necessarily, but surely they would have a sighting of it after ALL THIS TIME. I think this vehicle is not a local vehicle, and it is possible that is why they are releasing to the public at this time. It was headlining CBC this morning on the radio, so they are getting a very good reach with this new information.

[Turbododger]

The only fairly firm thing that is an undeniable fact that has been released so far is the wheelbase.

[LuckyPenny]

Most of the names were of local people, she said.




I never understood why she said that as she said just seconds before that she never recognized any of the names ??

[doubletrouble]

can anyone find out possibly one who has facebook account and access to rod what kind of car the grandma..taras mom drives? this is really bugging me and may be quite simple..than again it couldnt be that simple i suppose

[Flowercb]

So I guess the next question is...if this is a local, do they drive this route often? We're they going to or coming home from work? If so, I would think the car could easily be identified by having the street watched by police everyday for an appx 30 minute time frame, maybe 15 minutes before and after it was seen in the video in hopes of tracking this car and driver down.

If the car is from out of the area, are there any other businesses or cameras that could have possibly got footage of the car in the immediate area that might be useful in identifying this car/driver?

*sigh, I'm getting heartburn over this* :crazy:

Very good sleuthing Mazama. I wonder if the fact that the police were recently up on the roof adjusting cameras is an indication that they are trying to "catch" this car on the video again.

If this is a person from the area, you would think they would have driven by again since then. Then again, if they abducted a child in this vehicle, I doubt you will see them again.:clap:

[girlfriday]

Update on Christine the psychics site:

http://www.christinehamlett.com/index.asp?pageid=143219

She says she has a good idea who is behind this abduction but can't really say.

She also thinks a map of London ENGLAND is significant...I don't think her sketch looks anyting like the one by the police (even after she doctored the police sketch to 'match'). But hey, who knows ?

[another nosey mom]

I just re-watched the video from yesterday of tori's parents, I think it is now starting to sink in with TM that her daughter is missing and may not be coming home, she was very different than other pressers... almost like she thought it was a bad joke over the past 2 weeks and now she's thinking joke is over, bring her home, I got a really different feeling from her today... I really felt for both of the parents.

[Flowercb]

I never understood why she said that as she said just seconds before that she never recognized any of the names ??


I think that will all the negative press about her lately, mom is trying to keep the "spotlight" away from her. Imagine if she admitted she recognized the names. I truly believe she would cover her butt first than admit that someone she knew had something to do with it.

[Flowercb]

She also thinks a map of London ENGLAND is significant...I don't think her sketch looks anyting like the one by the police (even after she doctored the police sketch to 'match'). But hey, who knows ?


I don't know the story behind the sketch, but the map is just a general map on her site showing where she is from--nothing to do with her predictions.