Canada-Victoria Stafford, 8, Woodstock, Ontario; thread #8

[hoppyfrog]

Continue here.

[CarrieBean]

It was annoying that the feed kept going down. I hope they do a transcript of this one because I heard differently then you. I heard something along the lines of....

Tara said while out looking for Tori, one of Toris male friends was also late (missing) coming home, so they thought the two were together, but then he arrived home. The spotting of the police car was after.
They should have the full PC, interruption free, later on.

[another nosey mom]

I don't know why I have become so attached to finding little Tori, but I'm hear to tell ya I think about her all the time, and pray for her daily, as I'm sure most of you do also.[/QUOTE]

I sometimes think she is speaking to the people that have Tori in a round about way... talking riddles :waitasec:

[justbetweenus]

They should have the full PC, interruption free, later on.

I thought of that after I submitted. Thanks CarrieBean

[siestalola]

I would bet LE never found the brothers laptop in his home that TM has been using. My bet .....he ditched it somewhere.....but the LE would have had a tail on him.

[another nosey mom]

just thinking about the Bouncer:
maybe the H in MH is for Harris, even though his 'real' last name is McD - I'm sure if he is in this company he may not go by his 'real' name

[another nosey mom]

I would bet LE never found the brothers laptop in his home that TM has been using. My bet .....he ditched it somewhere.....but the LE would have had a tail on him.

I'm sure they can pickup his laptop wireless signal if they needed too

[another nosey mom]

Is it TM's grandfather in the home, or RS?? Sounds like it is on her side, since they thought TM's mom wouldn't like to here that they sneak sweets into him

[another nosey mom]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1558027

today's press conf review in writing

[Mazama]

Is it TM's grandfather in the home, or RS?? Sounds like it is on her side, since they thought TM's mom wouldn't like to here that they sneak sweets into him

TM's to my understanding

[Flowercb]

I think Dad only scratched once in this conference. The poor guy probably comes on here and reads all our observations about him.

[another nosey mom]

I think Dad only scratched once in this conference. The poor guy probably comes on here and reads all our observations about him.

the entire family seemed quite calm...which is quite different from other pressers, even the tv guys saw this change, they thought maybe it was because the big guy wasn't there??? and why would they say this? I'm not sure but it was an interesting thing to hear from them since they are there live and see all of the going's on.

[Mazama]

Ok, I did some more scouring of cars. I found this:

http://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
2009 VW Jetta Wagon, wheel base: 257.8cm also

I also found color charts for 2007 - 2009
They contain blues and green which could match VOI. I'll see if i can post charts next.

compare it to car in video:

http://i43.tinypic.com/149y1xw.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i43.tinypic.com/149y1xw.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

[Mazama]

VW Jetta Color charts:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2dalmie.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/2dalmie.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vslwtx.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i41.tinypic.com/2vslwtx.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

http://i42.tinypic.com/dnleso.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i42.tinypic.com/dnleso.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

[Logic]

http://www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/1996/Mercury/2334/1996.mercury.sable.7623-300x189.jpg

Thats a 97 Mercury Wagon... that and early years are similar when comparing the back window.

[doubletrouble]

not bad sleuthing at all..the rear window..same...tail light location towards bottom..same, size-same so being a 2009 there is a higher chance that this was infact a rental..and if thats the case...this was thought out and a premeditated abduction..and being that the case, then the abductor knew tori and she her....wow...getting close...wonder just how much and how far the police have come:confused:

[Mazama]

http://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

http://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

Another comparison

[Logic]

Speaking of car rental... check out how close this rental place is from where Tori was abducted.
http://www.yellowpages.ca/bus/Ontario/Woodstock/Discount-Car-and-Truck-Rentals/3414605.html?what=car+rental&where=woodstock%2C+ontario&le=169e98ca3c|13d2973e4bc

[doubletrouble]

http://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

http://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

Another comparison
by goerge i think u got it! look at the back window and the mid window..see the tiny triange...just a small area...omg i think u got it ..is that the 2009 one or the 1997 one...if 2009 i do beleive this was a rental and premeditated abduction...wow....please ignore typos:eek:

[Logic]

That rental place has no similar vehicles in their fleet according to their website.

That's not to say another rental company doesnt though

[captaincanada]

Ok, I did some more scouring of cars. I found this:

http://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/23uz4n.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
2009 VW Jetta Wagon, wheel base: 257.8cm also

I also found color charts for 2007 - 2009
They contain blues and green which could match VOI. I'll see if i can post charts next.

compare it to car in video:

http://i43.tinypic.com/149y1xw.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i43.tinypic.com/149y1xw.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

hi,
I don't think that's the vehicle. The window towards the back on the VOI is much closer to back of the car. Also the back body is more straight.

[Mazama]

by goerge i think u got it! look at the back window and the mid window..see the tiny triange...just a small area...omg i think u got it ..is that the 2009 one or the 1997 one...if 2009 i do beleive this was a rental and premeditated abduction...wow....please ignore typos:eek:


2009 is the one pictured

[Mazama]

hi,
I don't think that's the vehicle. The window towards the back on the VOI is much closer to back of the car. Also the back body is more straight.

That image is quite blurry and has a lot of "noise" in it so I would agree at first glance but you can see with second comparison that even the white light under the red tail light appears to be visible and in the same location.

[captaincanada]

just thinking about the Bouncer:
maybe the H in MH is for Harris, even though his 'real' last name is McD - I'm sure if he is in this company he may not go by his 'real' name

TM has a step-brother or half brother named MH, but he is not the biker gang type.

[Flowercb]

I wonder if they checked all the Provincial Parks. What about Algonquin Park it is quite large. Is anyone on here from around there. Are there posters up of Tori.

[Flowercb]

Looks like blue graphite to me.

[another nosey mom]

TM has a step-brother or half brother named MH, but he is not the biker gang type.

why do you think this? Do you know him?

[Flowercb]

Speaking of car rental... check out how close this rental place is from where Tori was abducted.
http://www.yellowpages.ca/bus/Ontario/Woodstock/Discount-Car-and-Truck-Rentals/3414605.html?what=car+rental&where=woodstock%2C+ontario&le=169e98ca3c|13d2973e4bc

I wonder if they carry this vehicle. Have you checked their website if they have one?

[Logic]

I cant find a similar wagon style at any of te rental places serving woodstock

[Flowercb]

I cant find a similar wagon style at any of te rental places serving woodstock

Come to think of it. Why would they rent from Woodstock? They probably rented from their final destination or else they would be forced to return.

[captaincanada]

why do you think this? Do you know him?

No, I don't personally.

[White Hawk]

A QUESTION TO THE LOCALS.................
In the US, many police departments and the FBI have the ability to take the picture in the video and run it against a database. This will give them a match for the vehicle in question. They can even send a picture of the match(s) to an officer's laptop in the field. It eliminates a lot of sleuthing and yes, takes some of the fun out of it, but it is very accurate. Does local LE or the RCMP have the same ability?

[captaincanada]

A QUESTION TO THE LOCALS.................
In the US, many police departments and the FBI have the ability to take the picture in the video and run it against a database. This will give them a match for the vehicle in question. They can even send a picture of the match(s) to an officer's laptop in the field. It eliminates a lot of sleuthing and yes, takes some of the fun out of it, but it is very accurate. Does local LE or the RCMP have the same ability?

Maybe on CSI, but I doubt it. The picture is way too fuzzy for any computer program to do this.

I think they should narrow it down to about ten vehicle makes that they think it might be and then have them drive by the security camera, film it and compare.

[White Hawk]

Maybe on CSI, but I doubt it. The picture is way too fuzzy for any computer program to do this.

I think they should narrow it down to about ten vehicle makes that they think it might be and then have them drive by the security camera, film it and compare.

No disrespect meant but I do it everyday. With pictures worse than this!

[captaincanada]

No disrespect meant but I do it everyday. With pictures worse than this!

Don't mean to sound negative, but if you do it everyday, what have you come up with?

[White Hawk]

Don't mean to sound negative, but if you do it everyday, what have you come up with?

Well, since I am not at work, but on vacation for another 2 weeks, nothing.

[Sparklin]

wow...took me forever to catch up! Damn work interferes with my sleuthing...grrr!!!

I DID get to see what was available of the pc today though. And I must say that I thought it was nice to see them together with Daryn and actually laughing about silly things. I know that some of you may find that disrespectful but it has been a month and no matter how much grief they are dealing with, there has to be some relief at times. I thought though, seeing them all together with the t-shirts, that it made it even that much sadder that Tori wasn't with them. I also was very disappointed that there was no plea or heartfelt message to Tori.

Today was only one of maybe two days, that I have had my doubts about Tara being involved. She came across as a great mom. The fact that someone (James now that John has left) walks Daryn to school and home makes me wonder...if she knows who did this, planned it, knows where Tori is etc...why would she be concerned for Daryn at this point? The only explanation is the abuse he no doubt is taking from children who's parents are too foolish to be quiet in front of little ears. Poor little guy!!

When Tara went to the school originally to find Tori that afternoon/evening, there was a police officer there because of another missing child, a little boy, friend of Tori's, but he showed up, was just late. That is when she DID speak to the police officer who told her to call the police. Tara's mom then dropped her at home and went to the police station -- totally understandable.

The fact that she has not gone to the school and questioned everyone -- I would hope that the police were on that immediately or that anyone who had seen anything would be sharing that info with her when she is there for Daryn. She did state that she was at the school quite often.

I too thought originally that they (LE) were far too complacent about it being a family member or friend. I've stated this elsewhere from the beginning. If it were a teenager/young woman walking in the same direction as Tori, and she asked her about Hannah Montana or Bratz (two obvious subjects by Toris apparel) no doubt Tori would respond and they could easily have struck up a conversation. Tori may even have been impressed that this girl/woman was chatting her up...

This case has gotten to me like no other -- maybe it's all the discrepancies and the fact that I am the NOSIEST person in the world and hate not having the answers...but when I wake each day or lay down each night, Tori's little face is on my mind and I pray constantly that she is returned safe and sound right this minute!!

[another nosey mom]

No, I don't personally. PM if you want to know more.

you are new and I don't think you can receive PM yet, you can PM me though?

[Mazama]

I took the VW Jetta Wagon and played with it in Photoshop. The angle on the car in video is not exact to the picture I have but please give me your thoughts on it.

http://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
VOI

http://i42.tinypic.com/2912j2b.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i42.tinypic.com/2912j2b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
VW Jetta Wagon


Any comments?

[Flowercb]

actual photo - colour looks more green than blue. But it is difficult to tell the exact shade as the clarity is not too good and colour looks different in different light.

[Mazama]

actual photo - colour looks more green than blue. But it is difficult to tell the exact shade as the clarity is not too good and colour looks different in different light.

I can try a new color, ty.

[Flowercb]

My son says looks like a Saab. Has anyone tried this?

[wen]

I agree, it was nice to see them standing united today, TM, RS and their son. I am not completely convinced that TM is guilty. RS seemed today to support her innocence. There certainly was a much more relaxed atmosphere today. I think the bodyguard brother helped to smear TM by his presence.
I still can't figure out the limo scene though..???...
I am glad LE is continuing to search, ie brother and his mother's house.
LE seems to be still investigating family involvement. What would they be hoping to find at the brother's house? Tori?? And at his mother's house?? And he called TM while they were searching his house?????
I wish they would continue to remind those tuning in of the reward money.
And why aren't the LE in the media more??? Is this normal practice in these cases?
(I would add a perplexed 'smiley' if I could only figure out how to)

[Reannan]

Not sure if this will be of any help, but it is an enlarged picture of the VOI with the color darkened, and the contrast increased - it is horribly blurry, but you can actually make out a few more features on it from this view. Anyway, here it is: PS - Click the thumbnail and it should become larger for you.

[elepher50]

Not sure if this will be of any help, but it is an enlarged picture of the VOI with the color darkened, and the contrast increased - it is horribly blurry, but you can actually make out a few more features on it from this view. Anyway, here it is: PS - Click the thumbnail and it should become larger for you.

Thanks Reannan, I think the front is clearer now in this enhanced pix you have posted - not sure what I am seeing though!

[PeonyLover]

I agree, it was nice to see them standing united today, TM, RS and their son. I am not completely convinced that TM is guilty. RS seemed today to support her innocence. There certainly was a much more relaxed atmosphere today. I think the bodyguard brother helped to smear TM by his presence.
I still can't figure out the limo scene though..???...
I am glad LE is continuing to search, ie brother and his mother's house.
LE seems to be still investigating family involvement. What would they be hoping to find at the brother's house? Tori?? And at his mother's house?? And he called TM while they were searching his house?????
I wish they would continue to remind those tuning in of the reward money.
And why aren't the LE in the media more??? Is this normal practice in these cases?
(I would add a perplexed 'smiley' if I could only figure out how to)

Perhaps they were looking for his computer, since she had apparently been using it while he was here after hers was confiscated by LE.

As for how to add a "smiley", I am a noobie but I'll try adding one by finding the one I want in the list and then typing what it says. Hope it works. It's supposed to be eek. :eek:

[canadianwhitedove]

Perhaps they were looking for his computer, since she had apparently been using it while he was here after hers was confiscated by LE.

As for how to add a "smiley", I am a noobie but I'll try adding one by finding the one I want in the list and then typing what it says. Hope it works. It's supposed to be eek. :eek:
You don't have to type the what it says you just have to click on the icon or smiley face.

Hope this saves your fingers some time

[LilyMacBloom]

Just thinking, IF you were an upstanding citizen AND you were in the area that particular day (or every day picking up your kid) AND you drove a vehicle that sort of "fit the description" the police released wouldn't you willingly drive yourself down to the police and say: I was there, this is my car and I saw/or did not see anything.
Since, the police haven't said that someone has come forward willingly and it appears they are still seeking this vehicle doesn't that make you think this person/vehicle is more than a witness????? Just asking

[CarrieBean]

Just thinking, IF you were an upstanding citizen AND you were in the area that particular day (or every day picking up your kid) AND you drove a vehicle that sort of "fit the description" the police released wouldn't you willingly drive yourself down to the police and say: I was there, this is my car and I saw/or did not see anything.
Since, the police haven't said that someone has come forward willingly and it appears they are still seeking this vehicle doesn't that make you think this person/vehicle is more than a witness????? Just asking
Possibly. Or one of those people who never watch the news.

[LilyMacBloom]

Possibly. Or one of those people who never watch the news.

Don't you think if you were a person who drove to that school all the time somebody would say to you "wow, your car really looks like that police release" . There would be some discussion and upstanding citizen would hike themselves on down there. Regardless if they watched the news. Put yourself it the position of fellow citizen who sees this car almost daily picking up kids, or a veh that looks like it. The longer this mystery vehicle goes on makes me very wary that this is not someone who may have seen something. JMO

does that make sense?

[Turbododger]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/item.aspx?type=photo&photo_id=08M2dTqfDRavY&pn=2&tid=0943fcd6B71ME

[Flowercb]

http://www.elkparts.com/images/emblem_saab.jpg

[elepher50]

Don't you think if you were a person who drove to that school all the time somebody would say to you "wow, your car really looks like that police release" . There would be some discussion and upstanding citizen would hike themselves on down there. Regardless if they watched the news. Put yourself it the position of fellow citizen who sees this car almost daily picking up kids, or a veh that looks like it. The longer this mystery vehicle goes on makes me very wary that this is not someone who may have seen something. JMO

does that make sense?

I think the police is very interested in the car as a suspect VOI in that they may think Tori was in the car. Police have identified all cars in that area on the video tape except for that one. It sure sounds like they are dilligently following up on the information that two school children saw Tori being put in a car. (This information from a previous thread from a local who knows the mother of one of the children who saw Tori being put in a car).
Frankly, I don't know what to think any more .....:waitasec:

[Lexiintoronto]

I took the VW Jetta Wagon and played with it in Photoshop. The angle on the car in video is not exact to the picture I have but please give me your thoughts on it.

http://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
VOI

http://i42.tinypic.com/2912j2b.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i42.tinypic.com/2912j2b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
VW Jetta Wagon


Any comments? I don't know anything about cars, and don't even know how you're able to pull up all of these comparisons - that looks like the car!!! At the very least you're very close. Maybe email it to the Toronto Star?

[Flowercb]

Not sure if this will be of any help, but it is an enlarged picture of the VOI with the color darkened, and the contrast increased - it is horribly blurry, but you can actually make out a few more features on it from this view. Anyway, here it is: PS - Click the thumbnail and it should become larger for you.

I wonder if we can start comparing the front with other cars. ie. the emblems.

[Flowercb]

I wonder if a manufacturer can verify if it is their vehicle. I know this is a big job but emailing contacts at different automobile companies and asking their opinion. They may know more about the vehicle than we do.

[Mazama]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/item.aspx?type=photo&photo_id=08M2dTqfDRavY&pn=2&tid=0943fcd6B71ME

He looks quite tired and drawn. I feel for him.

[White Hawk]

Here's hoping a Mod is listing! If so, it will save me a PM to them. It is REALLY time to do something with Tori's thread. We need to make it private so at least we can tell who is lurking. I feel we are being monitored by some that might have an interest in the trial going on. Maybe I'm just paranoid but that is just my gut instinct.

Thanks for your consideration...............

[LilyMacBloom]

He looks quite tired and drawn. I feel for him.


Lordy, I'm not the parent, I'm just following this and I feel tired and drawn!!
I'd like some answers and resolution already!

[justbetweenus]

I think the police is very interested in the car as a suspect VOI in that they may think Tori was in the car. Police have identified all cars in that area on the video tape except for that one. It sure sounds like they are dilligently following up on the information that two school children saw Tori being put in a car. (This information from a previous thread from a local who knows the mother of one of the children who saw Tori being put in a car).
Frankly, I don't know what to think any more .....:waitasec:

But...didn't the police say according to the surveillance video the VOI was seen behind Tori and the abductor? My thoughts are now that if this car had anything to do with the abduction, there would be no reason for the abductor and Tori to be walking.

I believe the police are just hoping they might have seen the two.

[Mazama]

2007 Jetta
http://i43.tinypic.com/v2tmb6.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i43.tinypic.com/v2tmb6.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

2008 Jetta
http://i42.tinypic.com/20izxiu.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i42.tinypic.com/20izxiu.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

VOI enlarged
http://i43.tinypic.com/149y1xw.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i43.tinypic.com/149y1xw.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

VOI photo 1
http://i44.tinypic.com/28s4m0m.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/28s4m0m.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

[siestalola]

Just thinking, IF you were an upstanding citizen AND you were in the area that particular day (or every day picking up your kid) AND you drove a vehicle that sort of "fit the description" the police released wouldn't you willingly drive yourself down to the police and say: I was there, this is my car and I saw/or did not see anything.
Since, the police haven't said that someone has come forward willingly and it appears they are still seeking this vehicle doesn't that make you think this person/vehicle is more than a witness????? Just asking

I'm not sure if the person in the vehicle hasn't come forward. I question that because I have only seen that video on the news on Monday night. Since then I have not seen it on the nightly news. I don't think the composite drawing is being shown on the news anymore. Makes me wonder if they have matched all that up already.

[canadianwhitedove]

There is still a possibility the VOI is from out of town. They could of been down for the Easter weekend. (But it was a Wednesday you say.) Raised as a strict Catholic Holy Thursday was just as big deal as Good Friday and Easter Sunday in my family. It is considered the day the Last Supper took place.

So if their parent is a strict Catholic living in the Nursing Home or around it , they could have been down for the whole Easter Celebration.

Maybe they do not follow the news or it not as big in their community as we have heard from others that there is no posters in one community or another.

Just a quick thought before find and string up the driver LOL:crazy:

[Reannan]

The car that is the VOI is heading in the same direction Tori and the woman were walking, so they had to have been "following" them. The car on the original video was heading towards Tori and the woman. Interesting that they haven't asked for that person to come forward. Maybe they already did??? NOTE: The van headed South (to the right in this picture) is NOT the vehicle that police are interested in. The vehicle headed North (to the left in this picture) is the vehicle.

[Reannan]

I also meant to say that I vote for the VW Jetta as being the most likely candidate for the VOI.

[Flowercb]

The car that is the VOI is heading in the same direction Tori and the woman were walking, so they had to have been "following" them. The car on the original video was heading towards Tori and the woman. Interesting that they haven't asked for that person to come forward. Maybe they already did???

The van going south is not the same vehicle as the one going north.

The police want to identify the vehicle going north. Your top photo should not be used as a reference. It is not the vehicle.

[justbetweenus]

I think Dad only scratched once in this conference. The poor guy probably comes on here and reads all our observations about him.


I agree...he, or someone close to him is definitely reading everything. Does no one notice how RS seems to be always trying to be one up on Tara? Just a few examples. Not verbatum or in order said:

Tara: asks the abductor to drop Tori off in a field.

Posters: how can a mother ask them to drop her child off in a field.

Rod: asks abductor to drop Tori off at an open mall

posters: Yay Rod!!!!!

Tara: I Hope the abductor is a stranger and not someone in my inner circle.

Posters: what mother would want her missing child to be with a stranger, and not someone they know.

Rod: I hope she is with someone we know and not a stranger. Notice though in the presser a day or two ago, Rod says he hopes the abductor is no one he knows.:confused:

Posters: ignore (LOL)

Posters: Why doesn't Tara at least wear a Tee shirt with a picture of Tara?

Rod: shows up wearing a T-shirt.

Posters: Tara never pleads to the abductor to bring Tori home. She says she wrote a letter to Tori, but its none of our business. What if Tori was listening.

Rod: reads plea to abductor, plus a letter he wrote to Tori.

Rod this isn't the time for you to try and make yourself look like the better, concerned parent. Your daughter is missing! I do have to give you kudos though for getting rid of that damn hat! Oh and you might want to try calamine lotion before the pressers (LOL)

No offense to anyone, but It seems the majority following this case are so busy watching Tara to find fault, they don't see anything else. JMO and observation. Please note I say all this in a very nice way.:)

[Reannan]

The van going south is not the same vehicle as the one going north.

The police want to identify the vehicle going north. Your top photo should not be used as a reference. It is not the vehicle.

I knew that, I just wasn't clear in my first post. The point I was trying to make was how odd it was that they are interested in a vehicle that would have been headed in the same direction as Tori and the woman. I guess that brings up another interesting point - was the VOI photographed BEFORE or AFTER the video of Tori and the woman? Does anyone know? (I tried to edit my earlier post to make it clearer).

[kaas]

The media has stated that the poi vehicle was seen shortly after Tori and her abductor passed the camera. I note that the man and his son have also left the area at this point. Presumably they would also have turned and walked the same direction as Tori so there would have been only in the frame for a few seconds prior to the car.

[PepperFritz]

Just thinking, IF you were an upstanding citizen AND you were in the area that particular day (or every day picking up your kid) AND you drove a vehicle that sort of "fit the description" the police released wouldn't you willingly drive yourself down to the police and say: I was there, this is my car and I saw/or did not see anything. Since, the police haven't said that someone has come forward willingly and it appears they are still seeking this vehicle doesn't that make you think this person/vehicle is more than a witness????? Just asking

That's one possibility. Another equally compelling possibility is that the person driving/owning the car may simply not be aware of the pictures and police request -- they might live in a place where this case does not receive as much media attention, or be out of town or out of the country temporarily; or they could be a local person who simply does not follow the news that closely....

[elepher50]

I agree...he, or someone close to him is definitely reading everything. Does no one notice how RS seems to be always trying to be one up on Tara? Just a few examples. Not verbatum or in order said:

Rod this isn't the time for you to try and make yourself look like the better, concerned parent. Your daughter is missing! I do have to give you kudos though for getting rid of that damn hat! Oh and you might want to try calamine lotion before the pressers (LOL)

No offense to anyone, but It seems the majority following this case are so busy watching Tara to find fault, they don't see anything else. JMO and observation. Please note I say all this in a very nice way.:)

Respectfully snipped by me: Great points all - there has been little to no information on the Stafford family. Here are some questions for Rod to answer:

1. Why do you feel you were "late" picking up Tori on the day she went missing when Tara states that there was no specified time
2. Why do you scratch and dig at yourself at the pressers
3. Why do you stand with your arms folded at the pressers
4. Were/are you scared of the bouncer type dude - were you threatened
5. What is your ex-wife's name who took the poly (not Tara)
6. Did you have any children with your ex-wife and if so do you see them unsupervised
7. Were you ever married to Tara
8. Has the Stafford family contributed to the reward money for the safe return or tips leading to Tori (the initial $10,000)
9. Where did you used to go camping with Tori
10. Were your computers taken by police
11. Have your cell phones/landlines been examined by police
12. Has your family's homes been searched by police
13. Have you ever been involved with the Banditos
14. What was the motivating factor for you to enroll in education classes to eventually open doors for you in corrections work
15. Do you have any known enemies
16. Did you share with anyone that Daryn often walked others home and then circled back to the school to pick up Tori
17. How tall do you really think the abductor is
18. Have you ever seen that mystery car
19. Where were you on the Family Day weekend
20. Did you have Tori and Daryn at any time over the Family Day weekend

That is enough ... these are all questions for which we do not have answers and questions that are not being asked - there are many more. If nobody has been cleared immediate family members and circle of friends will always be suspect until they are cleared.

Have I formed any opinion as to who took Tori - no, am I leaning a particular direction - yes but there are still too many outstanding questions and inconsistencies yet to be cleared. Oh and two last questions that I simply cannot resist they have to go into the list:

21. Are you wearing a wire for police
22. If you thought Tara was involved why haven't you choked the **** out of her by now?

All MOO as per usual.

[girlfriday]

I took the VW Jetta Wagon and played with it in Photoshop. The angle on the car in video is not exact to the picture I have but please give me your thoughts on it.

http://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i44.tinypic.com/e97juv.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
VOI

http://i42.tinypic.com/2912j2b.jpg (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i42.tinypic.com/2912j2b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
VW Jetta Wagon


Any comments?

It looks blurry to me :bang:

[girlfriday]

Seriously, can someone please point me to the live footage of the VOI.

Thanks :)

[Recovering-Lurker]

Here's hoping a Mod is listing! If so, it will save me a PM to them. It is REALLY time to do something with Tori's thread. We need to make it private so at least we can tell who is lurking. I feel we are being monitored by some that might have an interest in the trial going on. Maybe I'm just paranoid but that is just my gut instinct.

Thanks for your consideration...............

Not a Mod, but a rumor thread for this case could be started in the Parking Lot like it was with Haleigh's case. It is private. There are still going to be lurkers, but probably not as many as there are in the public forums. The trial theory could be discussed there.

[girlfriday]

Well, since I am not at work, but on vacation for another 2 weeks, nothing.

A Busman's holiday :rolleyes:

[Mazama]

It looks blurry to me :bang:

That was the whole point. To see how close it did or did not resemble the VOI. :)

I do need to try another color though, just haven't had the time yet. Family demanded food, can you imagine!? :crazy:

[ThoughtElf]

Respectfully snipped by me: Great points all - there has been little to no information on the Stafford family. Here are some questions for Rod to answer:

1. Why do you feel you were "late" picking up Tori on the day she went missing when Tara states that there was no specified time
2. Why do you scratch and dig at yourself at the pressers
3. Why do you stand with your arms folded at the pressers
4. Were/are you scared of the bouncer type dude - were you threatened
5. What is your ex-wife's name who took the poly (not Tara)
6. Did you have any children with your ex-wife and if so do you see them unsupervised
7. Were you ever married to Tara
8. Has the Stafford family contributed to the reward money for the safe return or tips leading to Tori (the initial $10,000)
9. Where did you used to go camping with Tori
10. Were your computers taken by police
11. Have your cell phones/landlines been examined by police
12. Has your family's homes been searched by police
13. Have you ever been involved with the Banditos
14. What was the motivating factor for you to enroll in education classes to eventually open doors for you in corrections work
15. Do you have any known enemies
16. Did you share with anyone that Daryn often walked others home and then circled back to the school to pick up Tori
17. How tall do you really think the abductor is
18. Have you ever seen that mystery car
19. Where were you on the Family Day weekend
20. Did you have Tori and Daryn at any time over the Family Day weekend

That is enough ... these are all questions for which we do not have answers and questions that are not being asked - there are many more. If nobody has been cleared immediate family members and circle of friends will always be suspect until they are cleared.

Have I formed any opinion as to who took Tori - no, am I leaning a particular direction - yes but there are still too many outstanding questions and inconsistencies yet to be cleared. Oh and two last questions that I simply cannot resist they have to go into the list:

21. Are you wearing a wire for police
22. If you thought Tara was involved why haven't you choked the **** out of her by now?

All MOO as per usual.

Ok, in fairness, I will play Devil's Advocate here and post questions for Tara:

1. Did both of your children live with your Mother for a span of time?
2. If so, when?
3. If so, why?
4. Have you recently been attending a methadone clinic?
5. If so, since what date?
6. Have you ever taken prescription meds that were prescribed to another person?
7. If so, what drugs were they and how did you obtain them?
8. Why did you move from the coop?
9. How many times have CAS reports been filed in regards to your children?
10. What is the status of those CAS claims and the resolution of any closed claims?
11. Do any of your family members have direct relationships with Bandidos?
12. Why would you prefer that your child be with a stranger?
13. Why would you prefer your child to be dropped off in an empty field vs. somewhere closer to help?
14. Why is it difficult to call Tori 'Tori' and plea directly for her release?
15. Why have we heard no further word about the mysterious limo driving benefactor?
16. Why is it preferable to seek out distant psychic help vs. blanketing the school, Cressant, and local businesses for leads?
17. Why was a donation fund of greater interest to you than to the paternal side of the family?
18. Why was 'The Hulk' needed at press conferences? There does not appear to be an obvious threat from the media.
19. Why so many discrepancies in the stories about Tori's plans the day she went missing?
20. Why is there more emphasis put upon the impact on you, vs. the impact on Tori?

Here's the real point - both of these parents have a child missing. And while we might personally waver on either side of the fence as to what we believe, we can't let this tilt one way or the other without further input & evidence.

For every "Tara did this" we can counter with a "Rod did that".

As long as we're showing both sides, then we're sleuthing. If we're only showing one side, then we're slamming.

[Reannan]

You know, this case does bring up a very good point regarding security cameras. The technology has evolved to the point that we should not have to sift thru grainy, crappy video images. I would be here all night if I recounted the horrible images we have observed at WS's over the last two years. Why does any business that cares enough to have a camera, not upgrade to a decent one?? :bang:It sure would make our lives easier. :crazy:

[elepher50]

Ok, in fairness, I will play Devil's Advocate here and post questions for Tara:

1. Did both of your children live with your Mother for a span of time?
2. If so, when?
3. If so, why?
4. Have you recently been attending a methadone clinic?
5. If so, since what date?
6. Have you ever taken prescription meds that were prescribed to another person?
7. If so, what drugs were they and how did you obtain them?
8. Why did you move from the coop?
9. How many times have CAS reports been filed in regards to your children?
10. What is the status of those CAS claims and the resolution of any closed claims?
11. Do any of your family members have direct relationships with Bandidos?
12. Why would you prefer that your child be with a stranger?
13. Why would you prefer your child to be dropped off in an empty field vs. somewhere closer to help?
14. Why is it difficult to call Tori 'Tori' and plea directly for her release?
15. Why have we heard no further word about the mysterious limo driving benefactor?
16. Why is it preferable to seek out distant psychic help vs. blanketing the school, Cressant, and local businesses for leads?
17. Why was a donation fund of greater interest to you than to the paternal side of the family?
18. Why was 'The Hulk' needed at press conferences? There does not appear to be an obvious threat from the media.
19. Why so many discrepancies in the stories about Tori's plans the day she went missing?
20. Why is there more emphasis put upon the impact on you, vs. the impact on Tori?

Here's the real point - both of these parents have a child missing. And while we might personally waver on either side of the fence as to what we believe, we can't let this tilt one way or the other without further input & evidence.

For every "Tara did this" we can counter with a "Rod did that".

As long as we're showing both sides, then we're sleuthing. If we're only showing one side, then we're slamming.

Wonderful post Potatohead - both sides for proper sleuthing. Thanks for doing this!:clap:

[Reannan]

OK, here is one that I have wanted to say for a while, and just haven't. Rod is the parent who has said he thinks he recognizes the person in the video, so why have we not sleuthed his side of the family more? What do we know about vendettas that may have been directed at HIM? Rod's statements about recognizing the woman has been a burr in my saddle for a long time. I am NOT saying Rod has anything to do with the disappearance, but maybe his associates and his close circle need to be analyzed.

[justbetweenus]

Respectfully snipped by me: Great points all - there has been little to no information on the Stafford family. Here are some questions for Rod to answer:

1. Why do you feel you were "late" picking up Tori on the day she went missing when Tara states that there was no specified time
2. Why do you scratch and dig at yourself at the pressers
3. Why do you stand with your arms folded at the pressers
4. Were/are you scared of the bouncer type dude - were you threatened
5. What is your ex-wife's name who took the poly (not Tara)
6. Did you have any children with your ex-wife and if so do you see them unsupervised
7. Were you ever married to Tara
8. Has the Stafford family contributed to the reward money for the safe return or tips leading to Tori (the initial $10,000)
9. Where did you used to go camping with Tori
10. Were your computers taken by police
11. Have your cell phones/landlines been examined by police
12. Has your family's homes been searched by police
13. Have you ever been involved with the Banditos
14. What was the motivating factor for you to enroll in education classes to eventually open doors for you in corrections work
15. Do you have any known enemies
16. Did you share with anyone that Daryn often walked others home and then circled back to the school to pick up Tori
17. How tall do you really think the abductor is
18. Have you ever seen that mystery car
19. Where were you on the Family Day weekend
20. Did you have Tori and Daryn at any time over the Family Day weekend

That is enough ... these are all questions for which we do not have answers and questions that are not being asked - there are many more. If nobody has been cleared immediate family members and circle of friends will always be suspect until they are cleared.

Have I formed any opinion as to who took Tori - no, am I leaning a particular direction - yes but there are still too many outstanding questions and inconsistencies yet to be cleared. Oh and two last questions that I simply cannot resist they have to go into the list:

21. Are you wearing a wire for police
22. If you thought Tara was involved why haven't you choked the **** out of her by now?

All MOO as per usual.

Hi elepher;

Thanks for having an open mind. Great questions too. I'm not saying Rob is involved in Tori's disappearance, but during their presser today, he wiped the sweat off his hands caseyomarie style. ;)

[gitana1]

Ok, in fairness, I will play Devil's Advocate here and post questions for Tara:

1. Did both of your children live with your Mother for a span of time?
2. If so, when?
3. If so, why?
4. Have you recently been attending a methadone clinic?
5. If so, since what date?
6. Have you ever taken prescription meds that were prescribed to another person?
7. If so, what drugs were they and how did you obtain them?
8. Why did you move from the coop?
9. How many times have CAS reports been filed in regards to your children?
10. What is the status of those CAS claims and the resolution of any closed claims?
11. Do any of your family members have direct relationships with Bandidos?
12. Why would you prefer that your child be with a stranger?
13. Why would you prefer your child to be dropped off in an empty field vs. somewhere closer to help?
14. Why is it difficult to call Tori 'Tori' and plea directly for her release?
15. Why have we heard no further word about the mysterious limo driving benefactor?
16. Why is it preferable to seek out distant psychic help vs. blanketing the school, Cressant, and local businesses for leads?
17. Why was a donation fund of greater interest to you than to the paternal side of the family?
18. Why was 'The Hulk' needed at press conferences? There does not appear to be an obvious threat from the media.
19. Why so many discrepancies in the stories about Tori's plans the day she went missing?
20. Why is there more emphasis put upon the impact on you, vs. the impact on Tori?

Here's the real point - both of these parents have a child missing. And while we might personally waver on either side of the fence as to what we believe, we can't let this tilt one way or the other without further input & evidence.

For every "Tara did this" we can counter with a "Rod did that".

As long as we're showing both sides, then we're sleuthing. If we're only showing one side, then we're slamming.

Great questions Potato! If you are not a lawyer, you could be.

[siestalola]

Respectfully snipped by me: Great points all - there has been little to no information on the Stafford family. Here are some questions for Rod to answer:

1. Why do you feel you were "late" picking up Tori on the day she went missing when Tara states that there was no specified time
2. Why do you scratch and dig at yourself at the pressers
3. Why do you stand with your arms folded at the pressers
4. Were/are you scared of the bouncer type dude - were you threatened
5. What is your ex-wife's name who took the poly (not Tara)
6. Did you have any children with your ex-wife and if so do you see them unsupervised
7. Were you ever married to Tara
8. Has the Stafford family contributed to the reward money for the safe return or tips leading to Tori (the initial $10,000)
9. Where did you used to go camping with Tori
10. Were your computers taken by police
11. Have your cell phones/landlines been examined by police
12. Has your family's homes been searched by police
13. Have you ever been involved with the Banditos
14. What was the motivating factor for you to enroll in education classes to eventually open doors for you in corrections work
15. Do you have any known enemies
16. Did you share with anyone that Daryn often walked others home and then circled back to the school to pick up Tori
17. How tall do you really think the abductor is
18. Have you ever seen that mystery car
19. Where were you on the Family Day weekend
20. Did you have Tori and Daryn at any time over the Family Day weekend

That is enough ... these are all questions for which we do not have answers and questions that are not being asked - there are many more. If nobody has been cleared immediate family members and circle of friends will always be suspect until they are cleared.

Have I formed any opinion as to who took Tori - no, am I leaning a particular direction - yes but there are still too many outstanding questions and inconsistencies yet to be cleared. Oh and two last questions that I simply cannot resist they have to go into the list:

21. Are you wearing a wire for police
22. If you thought Tara was involved why haven't you choked the **** out of her by now?

All MOO as per usual.


WOW...So well written, great questions!

Today however RS wasn't the one doing the scratching! I would say it was Tara, everytime Daryn started to talk or interrupt her, she started scratching her leg or rubbing her right cheek, almost like she wasn't sure what might be say.

She wasn't able to control the whole presser today as she usually can. That's what happens with kids...mine are the same...always interrupting and correcting my version of the story.

[ThoughtElf]

Great questions Potato! If you are not a lawyer, you could be.


I'm incredibly flattered. Coming from you that is high praise. Thanks! :blushing:

[wubblewobble]

I've been lurking for weeks but signed up a few days ago because I wasn't able to see the pics of Tara's tats.




Correct me if I'm wrong but if Rodney was involved with the Banditos in any way at all LE would have him listed as a 'known associate' & that would pretty much end his career in corrections before it even got started. Many moons ago there was a biker party in Ontario & LE set up a road block and was taking photos & asking for the ID of every guest.
Being a 'known associate' will even get you out of jury duty.
Just saying.

[LilyMacBloom]

I've been lurking for weeks but signed up a few days ago because I wasn't able to see the pics of Tara's tats.




Correct me if I'm wrong but if Rodney was involved with the Banditos in any way at all LE would have him listed as a 'known associate' & that would pretty much end his career in corrections before it even got started. Many moons ago there was a biker party in Ontario & LE set up a road block and was taking photos & asking for the ID of every guest.
Being a 'known associate' will even get you out of jury duty.
Just saying.


Ahhhh why lurking so long?? comon in!

[ChaChaCha]

Hi Y'all.... delayed my appearance tonight as I had to get a few things done around here! Thank you to all who messaged me about the InSession - I haven't snuck over there yet to spy, but may go later ...

I do not believe for one moment that the police are interested in seeing if the driver of the mystery car "noticed" anything that afternoon. Crap, I can't even remember the people I nearly ran over driving home today let alone the ones from last month. There is much more footage available than what has been made public - for hours before and hours after the abduction.

LE has been all over this thing like a fat kid on cake. While I realize that some things take time we are talking about a task force experienced in these matters and with information readily available to them for the asking or the taking. And yet, no one has found Tori. I believe that they are desperately searching for her, and once she is found, this mystery will play out in a very public way.

I also believe that TM's lifestyle has led directly to Tori's disappearance. What goes around comes around. I do not see anything from TM in the way of self-blame (not even a "damn, I wish I had been a better mother" or "I wish with all my heart that I had picked her up that day" ) and so I can only determine that she sees no fault with herself. (Who does THAT remind you of?) I can only hope that when Tori returns that it will not be to people who jeopardized her life.

[Crazy Canuck]

It is possible that the police know that the vehicle is involved in the abduction but aren't releasing that in hopes that the driver will come forward, thinking they are only a witness and not a suspect.

If anyone else here followed the Jennifer Kesse case, you will remember that for the first...I think year and a half they only told us that the poi was walking by and eventually revealed that he actually parked her car and they therefore knew he was involved but were hoping he would come forward if he didn't realize he was a suspect - or that someone who recogzined him would be more likely to identify him if they thought he was just a witness.

Just something that popped into my mind. I think most innocent people would definitely come forward...although there are alot of selfish, lazy people in this world and there are also people who are terrifed to become involved in things and put their own fear ahead of helping bring an innocent child home. It may be hard for most on here to understand but there are people who could care less about a missing child....I know because my husband is one of them. He doesn't follow the news and wouldn't have a clue if I asked him if he knew who Tori Stafford was.

[ThoughtElf]

I've been lurking for weeks but signed up a few days ago because I wasn't able to see the pics of Tara's tats.




Correct me if I'm wrong but if Rodney was involved with the Banditos in any way at all LE would have him listed as a 'known associate' & that would pretty much end his career in corrections before it even got started. Many moons ago there was a biker party in Ontario & LE set up a road block and was taking photos & asking for the ID of every guest.
Being a 'known associate' will even get you out of jury duty.
Just saying.

Great point. Hadn't thought of that. Last thing Corrections would want is a potential 'inside' person willing to pass messages back and forth.

Question - when applying for courses for Law & Enforcement or Cimincal Justice, do they do a back ground check before acceptance? Anyone know?

*off to check out Conestoga College courses & prerequisites.*

[LilyMacBloom]

any criminal conviction can keep you from getting a job ie: you can't get bonded etc etc ..and my understanding is RS has some history

[wen]

Just had a peak at FB site....ow...they are nasty over there!!! What a waste of my precious time!!
I am so impressed by you WSers. Keeping your minds open to different views ....
If I ever am in need of sleuths you are all number 1 on my list!!!!!!! :)

[ThoughtElf]

Great point. Hadn't thought of that. Last thing Corrections would want is a potential 'inside' person willing to pass messages back and forth.

Question - when applying for courses for Law & Enforcement or Cimincal Justice, do they do a back ground check before acceptance? Anyone know?

*off to check out Conestoga College courses & prerequisites.*

Quoting myself. Doesn't look to be required for entry to Legal Enforcement courses, but this is high-lighted in the notes:

Note:



Applicants should be advised that employers might require a criminal records check.

[elepher50]

WS Sleuthers a rumor thread has been setup and opened for discussion of well - rumors and theories on the abduction of our little Tori. Only registered WS members have access to the thread so head on over and post away. It is in the Parking Lot portion of WS (private forum) and here is the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83975

[ChaChaCha]

I've been lurking for weeks but signed up a few days ago because I wasn't able to see the pics of Tara's tats.




Correct me if I'm wrong but if Rodney was involved with the Banditos in any way at all LE would have him listed as a 'known associate' & that would pretty much end his career in corrections before it even got started. Many moons ago there was a biker party in Ontario & LE set up a road block and was taking photos & asking for the ID of every guest.
Being a 'known associate' will even get you out of jury duty.
Just saying.



Welcome Wubble! Yup, those tats were worth signing up for! To the best of my knowledge, RS is not involved at all with the gang... not as an associate or anything else. I would imagine that he has never been much impressed with his ex-wife's passion for the bad boys - let alone now! I am sure that I never gave that impression in my scenario - so to clarify I will say that TM has a step-brother, MH. The informant in the London trial is known only as MH. MH and another man were at the K farmhouse on the night of the massacre. They were hiding out behind the barn, but saw everything (or pretty much everything) that went on that evening. MH and three others left the morning of the 9th to drive back out west... once there, MH continued to hang with the boys, but at some point came in contact with RCMP who convinced him to become a witness and an informant in exchange for not being charged as an accessory. This is well documented in several articles currently available on-line and not my account of anything that may or may not have occurred.

Of course the London boys know who MH is. They know who his family is, and where they are. While MH may well be in hiding until it is time for him to testify, generally it would be difficult to uproot an entire family (especially one that has so many steps and half siblings!).

I may well be way off on this one - but I haven't seen anything yet that disproves my theory. Much of the trial will not be made public - not in great detail anyways - but if you are interested in reading a bit of the background, then this is a good article to start with...

http://brockville.ospreymedialp.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1505963

[ChaChaCha]

WS Sleuthers a rumor thread has been setup and opened for discussion of well - rumors and theories on the abduction of our little Tori. Only registered WS members have access to the thread so head on over and post away. It is in the Parking Lot portion of WS (private forum) and here is the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83975

Hurray! I will be able to stop looking over my shoulder! Going now...

[another nosey mom]

I don't know anything about cars, and don't even know how you're able to pull up all of these comparisons - that looks like the car!!! At the very least you're very close. Maybe email it to the Toronto Star?

VW was my first guess, then Saturn, then Chev, then maybe Ford Taurus

[PepperFritz]

It is possible that the police know that the vehicle is involved in the abduction but aren't releasing that in hopes that the driver will come forward, thinking they are only a witness and not a suspect.

If anyone else here followed the Jennifer Kesse case, you will remember that for the first...I think year and a half they only told us that the poi was walking by and eventually revealed that he actually parked her car and they therefore knew he was involved but were hoping he would come forward if he didn't realize he was a suspect - or that someone who recogzined him would be more likely to identify him if they thought he was just a witness.

Just something that popped into my mind. I think most innocent people would definitely come forward...although there are alot of selfish, lazy people in this world and there are also people who are terrifed to become involved in things and put their own fear ahead of helping bring an innocent child home. It may be hard for most on here to understand but there are people who could care less about a missing child....I know because my husband is one of them. He doesn't follow the news and wouldn't have a clue if I asked him if he knew who Tori Stafford was.

Yes, that may very well be the case here.

[Reannan]

After looking at the photographs of the vehicle, I wonder if this whole thing isn't a ploy to distract us from looking at something else??? This vehicle was BEHIND Tori and the woman. That makes no sense if they were involved - unless they have additional photos of the car pulling into the nursing home, which I doubt. A red herring....MOO.

[siestalola]

I've been lurking for weeks but signed up a few days ago because I wasn't able to see the pics of Tara's tats.




Correct me if I'm wrong but if Rodney was involved with the Banditos in any way at all LE would have him listed as a 'known associate' & that would pretty much end his career in corrections before it even got started. Many moons ago there was a biker party in Ontario & LE set up a road block and was taking photos & asking for the ID of every guest.
Being a 'known associate' will even get you out of jury duty.
Just saying.

Welcome to our madness, glad to have ya

[another nosey mom]

After looking at the photographs of the vehicle, I wonder if this whole thing isn't a ploy to distract us from looking at something else??? This vehicle was BEHIND Tori and the woman. That makes no sense if they were involved - unless they have additional photos of the car pulling into the nursing home, which I doubt. A red herring....MOO.

if they got in the car in the parking lot, does the parking lot go out onto another street and then they can drive around the block and go past the school again??? I also thought that they would be ahead of this car if they were walking.

[siestalola]

WS Sleuthers a rumor thread has been setup and opened for discussion of well - rumors and theories on the abduction of our little Tori. Only registered WS members have access to the thread so head on over and post away. It is in the Parking Lot portion of WS (private forum) and here is the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83975

Holy ****e! I can hardly keep up with this forum! I will never get anything done around here.

Kidding of course, thanks for the new thread

[justbetweenus]

Great questions Potato! If you are not a lawyer, you could be.

Hi Gitani...nice seeing you here.:)

[justbetweenus]

WS Sleuthers a rumor thread has been setup and opened for discussion of well - rumors and theories on the abduction of our little Tori. Only registered WS members have access to the thread so head on over and post away. It is in the Parking Lot portion of WS (private forum) and here is the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83975

LOL..I thought I was already on it. Thanks elepher

[LuckyPenny]

Web exclusive: Tara McDonald's best friend speaks out
Posted By RANDY RICHMOND, Sun Media
Posted -46 sec ago


WOODSTOCK — She bears an uncanny resemblance to the abductor of Victoria ‘Tori’ Stafford in a police sketch and a surveillance video.

She’s been questioned repeatedly by police and they’ve searched her house.

She’s heard the accusations by Woodstock residents, and seen herself convicted online on Facebook.

She’s the best friend of Tori’s mother, Tara McDonald, and accompanied her on an infamous limousine ride.

She’s said nothing publicly, until now.

Sara Leeper told The Free Press yesterday — contrary to all the rumours — she had nothing to do with the abduction of Tori Stafford.


<snip>

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1558372

Article ID# 1558372


Wow eh? So the police MUST suspect TM. This 'best friend' just screwed TM as none of this was 'public knowledge" about TM. No wonder the focus is still in Woodstock, no wonder the police haven't issued an amber alert!! This really brings a new light on things!!

[another nosey mom]

Web exclusive: Tara McDonald's best friend speaks out
Posted By RANDY RICHMOND, Sun Media
Posted -46 sec ago


WOODSTOCK — She bears an uncanny resemblance to the abductor of Victoria ‘Tori’ Stafford in a police sketch and a surveillance video.

She’s been questioned repeatedly by police and they’ve searched her house.

She’s heard the accusations by Woodstock residents, and seen herself convicted online on Facebook.

She’s the best friend of Tori’s mother, Tara McDonald, and accompanied her on an infamous limousine ride.

She’s said nothing publicly, until now.

Sara Leeper told The Free Press yesterday — contrary to all the rumours — she had nothing to do with the abduction of Tori Stafford.

<snip>

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1558372

Article ID# 1558372

so why would she not answer the question about the lie detector test... that to me sends "bings" as we called it this morning!

[justbetweenus]

You know, this case does bring up a very good point regarding security cameras. The technology has evolved to the point that we should not have to sift thru grainy, crappy video images. I would be here all night if I recounted the horrible images we have observed at WS's over the last two years. Why does any business that cares enough to have a camera, not upgrade to a decent one?? :bang:It sure would make our lives easier. :crazy:

I so totally agree with you! With the technology we have today, I can't get over the fact that here is a kidnapper caught on camera, that no one can identify other then specualtion. It's like defeating the purpose of why they are installed to begin with.

[LuckyPenny]

Just watched a clip of TM's conference something that bothered me. When she said

If I was going to have one child kidnapped, why not the other one... you know... why would I only protect Victoria and not Daryn. It doesnt make sense.

So this I found odd - why would one assume that IF she did abduct Victoria that it was for protection. Hmmm sometimes I think just keep on talking TM, as your leaking more and more. She always says "they" too about the abductor(s).

[captaincanada]

Welcome Wubble! Yup, those tats were worth signing up for! To the best of my knowledge, RS is not involved at all with the gang... not as an associate or anything else. I would imagine that he has never been much impressed with his ex-wife's passion for the bad boys - let alone now! I am sure that I never gave that impression in my scenario - so to clarify I will say that TM has a step-brother, MH. The informant in the London trial is known only as MH. MH and another man were at the K farmhouse on the night of the massacre. They were hiding out behind the barn, but saw everything (or pretty much everything) that went on that evening. MH and three others left the morning of the 9th to drive back out west... once there, MH continued to hang with the boys, but at some point came in contact with RCMP who convinced him to become a witness and an informant in exchange for not being charged as an accessory. This is well documented in several articles currently available on-line and not my account of anything that may or may not have occurred.

Of course the London boys know who MH is. They know who his family is, and where they are. While MH may well be in hiding until it is time for him to testify, generally it would be difficult to uproot an entire family (especially one that has so many steps and half siblings!).

I may well be way off on this one - but I haven't seen anything yet that disproves my theory. Much of the trial will not be made public - not in great detail anyways - but if you are interested in reading a bit of the background, then this is a good article to start with...

http://brockville.ospreymedialp.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1505963

I'm pretty sure that MH is not the MH who is TM's step-brother.

[White Hawk]

Not a Mod, but a rumor thread for this case could be started in the Parking Lot like it was with Haleigh's case. It is private. There are still going to be lurkers, but probably not as many as there are in the public forums. The trial theory could be discussed there.

Let's not compare it to Haleigh's rumor thread. You are going to give Tricia a heart attack!

[ChaChaCha]

I'm pretty sure that MH is not the MH who is TM's step-brother.

Cough it up! Why not?

Maybe I know something you don't know...

[ChaChaCha]

Let's not compare it to Haleigh's rumor thread. You are going to give Tricia a heart attack!

White Hawk, I agree 100%.... it should be moved over there... and I took it over there already...

[captaincanada]

Cough it up! Why not?

Maybe I know something you don't know...

Because the MH who is TM's step brother is no ex-bandido. What do you know?

[justbetweenus]

Wow eh? So the police MUST suspect TM. This 'best friend' just screwed TM as none of this was 'public knowledge" about TM. No wonder the focus is still in Woodstock, no wonder the police haven't issued an amber alert!! This really brings a new light on things!!

Thank-you LP...that was very interesting.

[TripleA]

The friend said she wears sunglasses outside all the time because of a lazy eye. Many have responded to the sketch regarding the lazy/droopy eye appearance of the sketch.

[captaincanada]

Cough it up! Why not?

Maybe I know something you don't know...


I did notice one thing today in the PC. TM was asked if her brother was a Harris and she said no. Technically her STEP-brother is a Harris but she didn't qualify that comment.

[captaincanada]

Just watched a clip of TM's conference something that bothered me. When she said

If I was going to have one child kidnapped, why not the other one... you know... why would I only protect Victoria and not Daryn. It doesnt make sense

So this I found odd - why would one assume that IF she did abduct Victoria that it was for protection. Hmmm sometimes I think just keep on talking TM, as your leaking more and more. She always says "they" too about the abductor(s).

This is a very odd statement. I think it is VERY telling too!

[Turbododger]

2 (?) reported accounts of LE sweep based on tip, Paris Plains Church Rd. today. I believe this is in Paris, ON. Searched all houses and outbuildings on road, but not around the corner on another road. 8 Cruisers seen on the road, only about a dozen houses.

Taken from the mindnumbing FB boards.

[barbara40]

I did notice one thing today in the PC. TM was asked if her brother was a Harris and she said no. Technically her STEP-brother is a Harris but she didn't qualify that comment.

I noticed that too !

[hoppyfrog]

Wow eh? So the police MUST suspect TM. This 'best friend' just screwed TM as none of this was 'public knowledge" about TM. No wonder the focus is still in Woodstock, no wonder the police haven't issued an amber alert!! This really brings a new light on things!!

How did the best friend"screw" TM? What was not public knowledge about TM that was revealed in the article?

Hoppy

[PepperFritz]

Okay, several things about this interview with Sara Leeper seem very "off":

"The only question she didn’t answer is if she had taken a lie detector test."

That's just bizarre. Not answering the question just makes it look like she has something to hide. Like the fact that she failed the test, or refused to take one.

Police have asked Leeper to account for her whereabouts the day of the abduction. “I don’t remember. Got up, put the kids on the bus, maybe cleaned the house, maybe got groceries,” she told The Free Press.

Very strange. Your "best friend"'s child is abducted and you can't remember what you were doing that day? Hell, I remember what I did the day Tori went missing -- when and where I first heard about it, everything. When people experience great "shocks" or trauma, they usually retain everything about that day like a film in their minds.

Leeper backed up McDonald’s story that on April 23 they and two others were whisked by limo to meet a mysterious benefactor in Toronto who offered to help with any ransom money.

Well, that makes her instantly suspicious, since it is apparent to everyone that Tara's story COULDN'T have happened the way she said it did.

For the past six years, the pair kept in touch mainly by Internet and phone calls.... She moved a week before Tori was abducted.... In that week, though, Leeper said, she didn’t get a chance to meet Tori..... “Tori couldn’t pick me out of a crowd,” Leeper said. “I don’t even know Tori.”

When it comes to being a mother, [Tara] is exceptional.

What???!!!! She hasn't seen her for six years, hasn't even met her kids, yet knows that Tara is an "exceptional" mother. Plus it's an established fact that Tara is a drug user who now attends a methadone clinic. Is she pretending that she doesn't know that?

Hanging on the back of a chair in full view during that search was her own white jacket, a different style than the one worn by the abductor, Leeper said. “My white coat has burgundy sleeves. It is not stylish. It is to go tobogganing with children in.”

Well, that would be a clever thing for a guilty person to do. Put out "in full view" a coat that is similar to, but significantly different from, the one that the suspect was wearing.

Jeez Louise, this case just gets weirder and weirder....

[Turbododger]

Again, taken from FB postings, 2 members of the Find Tori group were indignantly posting they had been investigated by detectives today, due to a tip called in, FWIW.

[justbetweenus]

I've been lurking for weeks but signed up a few days ago because I wasn't able to see the pics of Tara's tats.




Correct me if I'm wrong but if Rodney was involved with the Banditos in any way at all LE would have him listed as a 'known associate' & that would pretty much end his career in corrections before it even got started. Many moons ago there was a biker party in Ontario & LE set up a road block and was taking photos & asking for the ID of every guest.
Being a 'known associate' will even get you out of jury duty.
Just saying.

Welcome to ws wubblewobble. I don't know anything about the "known associate" but that's interesting to know. From my understanding though RS is planning to go into corrections, but right now he is just going for his grade 12.

[captaincanada]

Sara Leeper said that she doesn't even know Tori but she is the best friend of Tori's mother????? BIZARRE

[LuckyPenny]

How did the best friend"screw" TM? What was not public knowledge about TM that was revealed in the article?

Hoppy

Well I meant that she 'screwed' TM to the general public. LE never announced they were suspecting TM, TM never said they suspected her - only that everything the LE did was "routine". I just think her friend had a big mouth in this ariticle to be honest - didnt think before she spoke in some instances.

[elepher50]

Again, taken from FB postings, 2 members of the Find Tori group were indignantly posting they had been investigated by detectives today, due to a tip called in, FWIW.

Wow, they were investigated - must have been a reason why they were being scrutinized by LE.

There is a private thread now Turbo where WS members can discuss theory, and rumors:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83975&page=2

[ChaChaCha]

2 (?) reported accounts of LE sweep based on tip, Paris Plains Church Rd. today. I believe this is in Paris, ON. Searched all houses and outbuildings on road, but not around the corner on another road. 8 Cruisers seen on the road, only about a dozen houses.

Taken from the mindnumbing FB boards.

Holy crap! That was way back in like thread 3! WTF? There was the white building with the peaked roof...

Wow!

[captaincanada]

I noticed that too !

It was very sneaky of her. The reporter should have challenged her.

[siestalola]

Just watched a clip of TM's conference something that bothered me. When she said



So this I found odd - why would one assume that IF she did abduct Victoria that it was for protection. Hmmm sometimes I think just keep on talking TM, as your leaking more and more. She always says "they" too about the abductor(s).

I caught that too! And it floored me when she said it! Then the conversation moved on so quickly I totally forgot about it until you mentioned it. Hmmm I'm not a great sleuth huh?

[siestalola]

I'm pretty sure that MH is not the MH who is TM's step-brother.

Why are you pretty sure he's not?

[PepperFritz]

The friend said she wears sunglasses outside all the time because of a lazy eye. Many have responded to the sketch regarding the lazy/droopy eye appearance of the sketch.

Excellent point.

[siestalola]

2 (?) reported accounts of LE sweep based on tip, Paris Plains Church Rd. today. I believe this is in Paris, ON. Searched all houses and outbuildings on road, but not around the corner on another road. 8 Cruisers seen on the road, only about a dozen houses.

Taken from the mindnumbing FB boards.

That would explain why sterling's site was shut down today. That had been mentioned on there sometime ago I think

[captaincanada]

Why are you pretty sure he's not?

He doesn't have the hardened criminal, bad-ass look of a bandido.

[Flowercb]

From the Facebook page: "OPP have been all around Port Dover. Does anyone think it has anything to do with Tori?"

[ChaChaCha]

He doesn't have the hardened criminal, bad-ass look of a bandido.

Gimme a break!!!

He never was a bandido... not even an "associate"... just a hanger arounder with his big bro...

Nice gavel. They have those where I work.

[captaincanada]

Gimme a break!!!

He never was a bandido... not even an "associate"... just a hanger arounder with his big bro...

Nice gavel. They have those where I work.

The MH that is involved in the trial is a FORMER bandido.

[captaincanada]

Nice gavel. They have those where I work.

Me too. :crazy:

[siestalola]

He doesn't have the hardened criminal, bad-ass look of a bandido.

LMAO

Some bikers wear suits

You may have one for a neighbour and not even know it!

[siestalola]

According to a friend who just dropped in to watch hockey. The OPP were blocking a laneway into a house/farm today on hwy #7 between London and SArnia. Said there were cruisers everywhere and that there appeared to be bikers (4-5) standing on the shoulder of the highway.

[PepperFritz]

From Christie Blatchford's G&M article today:

When out in public, she said, “People have said to me, ‘You know people are looking at you,' and it doesn't faze me at all. Like some people have come up to us like acting like we're some kind of movie star, ‘Omigod I can't believe that it's you!' – they want to hug us and everything.

Man, could that woman be any more self-absorbed????

Link:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090507.wblatch0507/BNStory/National/home

[justbetweenus]

So is Tori no longer going to be discussed here? Anyone want to discuss her case without rumour, and gossip? Sorry...I don't understand the need to move.

[hoppyfrog]

Wow, they were investigated - must have been a reason why they were being scrutinized by LE.



There is. It was discussed here yesterday.

Hoppy

[ThoughtElf]

From the Facebook page: "OPP have been all around Port Dover. Does anyone think it has anything to do with Tori?"

Port Dover is home to some nice Bike Shops. Pretty popular for riders. Each Friday the 13th riders from all over North America hit Port Dover for a ride (to the tune of 100,000 attending.) On any given summer w/e you can hit the beaches and there will be tons of nice rides to check out in town. Jazz Fest on there right now, I believe.

That said, with the trial, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see an increased presence there in case Port Dover has some additional visitors right now.

[antiquegirl]

There was an interesting article in The London Free Press about an hour ago. It was an exclusive interview with Tara's best friend, Sarah Lepper. Then, POOF, the article is no longer available. This is where it used to be:

http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/28/9272886-sun.html--hit

In it, Sarah says that as soon as she saw the police sketch, she said "Oh, oh" because she realised that people would think it looked like her. Yet, when asked what she did that day (when Tori disappeared) she began by saying that she didn't remember, but was waiting for her kids to get home from school around the time that Tori went missing.

I'm very curious why that newspaper article suddenly disappeared. Maybe it's the same place as Tori. :(

[justbetweenus]

I'm pretty sure that MH is not the MH who is TM's step-brother.


Do you think MH is an ex cop?

[siestalola]

Do you think MH is an ex cop?

aaaahhh NO!

Why?

[ThoughtElf]

So is Tori no longer going to be discussed here? Anyone want to discuss her case without rumour, and gossip? Sorry...I don't understand the need to move.

I think the Mods are just trying to keep this thread for articles, facts, sleuthing (i.e. the unknown vehicle) and as with other cases, keep the unsubstantiated stuff in the Parking Lot on a rumours threads.

Actually, it's worked out really well with cases like Caylee, Haleigh, Sandra Cantu, etc. It's also a lot easier for them to Mod that way. :D

[margaret_diane]

Can anyone pls advise me of the names of the posters on teh FB site claiming they were investigated by LE today as a result of a tip?? I'd be very interested to know!!

[antiquegirl]

[QUOTE=PepperFritz;3711994]Okay, several things about this interview with Sara Leeper seem very "off":

Well, that makes her instantly suspicious, since it is apparent to everyone that Tara's story COULDN'T have happened the way she said it did.


PepperFritz: I agree with everything you wrote except this. I am convinced that the limo story happened exactly the way Tara told it. What Tara and friends don't know is that it HAD to be a police sting operation. Tara's phones would have been tapped by then and she would have been under surveillance. No way the police wouldn't have known about that limo phone call and ride. The sting would also explain why LE's only comment was that they were "aware of it" and have the information. It was all a set-up, but it happened. Tara fell for it hook, line, and sinker and so did Sara.

[Dee10]

Wow eh? So the police MUST suspect TM. This 'best friend' just screwed TM as none of this was 'public knowledge" about TM. No wonder the focus is still in Woodstock, no wonder the police haven't issued an amber alert!! This really brings a new light on things!!

This link no longer works & the websearch doesn't pull it up. Is there anyway you can paste that "sooo" interesting read....pretty please?:blowkiss:

[antiquegirl]

Just watched a clip of TM's conference something that bothered me. When she said



So this I found odd - why would one assume that IF she did abduct Victoria that it was for protection. Hmmm sometimes I think just keep on talking TM, as your leaking more and more. She always says "they" too about the abductor(s).

She might have been referring to one of the rumours floating about in some Facebook groups. It was speculation that Tori was being threatened by people they owed money to and that TM arranged to have her hidden for a while for her protection. This rumour was reinforced by TM later saying that the abduction was something that got "too big, too fast". People surmised that TM intended for Tori to be gone just for a day or two, and then it all spun out of control.

Just one explanation for her comment today. Responding to Facebook rumours.

[CarrieBean]

I'm curious what time Tara started looking for Tori. Did she say? Or what time she contacted her Mother.

[PepperFritz]

What Tara and friends don't know is that it HAD to be a police sting operation.

And the purpose of the "sting" would have been what?

[Flowercb]

In today's press conference Rodney explained that he was told Tori was walking in the East Park area with a bunch of other kids. A reporter asked him if he told this contradiction to police, Rodney said no.

I don't believe he did not talk to the police about this. I think they are told to keep their mouths shut. He probably should not have said anything about where Tori was.

[CarrieBean]

In today's press conference Rodney explained that he was told Tori was walking in the East Park area with a bunch of other kids. A reporter asked him if he told this contradiction to police, Rodney said no.

I don't believe he did not talk to the police about this. I think they are told to keep their mouths shut. He probably should not have said anything about where Tori was.
I could be wrong but I thought he was asked if he questioned LE about the contradiction, and he said no.

[Dee10]

[quote=PepperFritz;3711994]Okay, several things about this interview with Sara Leeper seem very "off":

Well, that makes her instantly suspicious, since it is apparent to everyone that Tara's story COULDN'T have happened the way she said it did.


PepperFritz: I agree with everything you wrote except this. I am convinced that the limo story happened exactly the way Tara told it. What Tara and friends don't know is that it HAD to be a police sting operation. Tara's phones would have been tapped by then and she would have been under surveillance. No way the police wouldn't have known about that limo phone call and ride. The sting would also explain why LE's only comment was that they were "aware of it" and have the information. It was all a set-up, but it happened. Tara fell for it hook, line, and sinker and so did Sara.


The problem with the above is WHY did nobody (inc. press) in the neighborhood, in broad daylight, etc. etc. etc. saw anything???

[justbetweenus]

I think the Mods are just trying to keep this thread for articles, facts, sleuthing (i.e. the unknown vehicle) and as with other cases, keep the unsubstantiated stuff in the Parking Lot on a rumours threads.

Actually, it's worked out really well with cases like Caylee, Haleigh, Sandra Cantu, etc. It's also a lot easier for them to Mod that way. :D

Thank-you PotatoHead; I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am aware of other cases like Caylee, Haleigh, and Sandra, having a rumour thread in the PL, but they also have their own forum as well. It's no big deal, I can cope....i think....lol :blowkiss:

[PepperFritz]

The problem with the above is WHY did nobody (inc. press) in the neighborhood, in broad daylight, etc. etc. etc. see anything???

Exactly. There is not a SINGLE WITNESS to this alleged "limo" except those who claimed to have been in it. It's ridiculous.

[whodunnit]

LMAO

Some bikers wear suits

You may have one for a neighbour and not even know it!

According to a friend who just dropped in to watch hockey. The OPP were blocking a laneway into a house/farm today on hwy #7 between London and SArnia. Said there were cruisers everywhere and that there appeared to be bikers (4-5) standing on the shoulder of the highway.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of fallout from the Bandidos trial. And now that there is some (albeit tenuous) link to the story that is Tori, let's hope that the little angel is not his-Tori.

[elepher50]

Thank-you PotatoHead; I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am aware of other cases like Caylee, Haleigh, and Sandra, having a rumour thread in the PL, but they also have their own forum as well. It's no big deal, I can cope....i think....lol :blowkiss:

It would be really great if Tori had a forum where things could be organized - maybe we can beg the mods for one - we could have a thread for mystery car, Tori - what we know about her, Tara, Rod, mystery woman, etc. Do we have to formally ask for one - does anybody know?

[justbetweenus]

I'm curious what time Tara started looking for Tori. Did she say? Or what time she contacted her Mother.

My recollection is Tara said that Daryn got home from school at 4:15, she asked where Tori was, and he said he walked his friend home, came back to the school and Tori was gone. Tara went on to say they waited a bit, then started calling, and looking for her. I have wondered how long is a bit to her. I bet it's longer then I would ever agree with. I'll guess 5:00

[Justice07]

Here is a copy of the interview with Tara's friend Sarah.

WOODSTOCK — She bears an uncanny resemblance to the abductor of Victoria ‘Tori’ Stafford in a police sketch and a surveillance video.

She’s been questioned repeatedly by police and they’ve searched her house.

She’s heard the accusations by Woodstock residents, and seen herself convicted online on Facebook.

She’s the best friend of Tori’s mother, Tara McDonald, and accompanied her on an infamous limousine ride.

She’s said nothing publicly, until now.

Sara Leeper told The Free Press yesterday — contrary to all the rumours — she had nothing to do with the abduction of Tori Stafford.

“It’s not me,” she said in an exclusive interview. “I haven’t done anything. It’s ridiculous.”

Leeper, a housewife and mother, has been thrust into the spotlight by a series of events that began with Tori’s abduction April 8.

Leeper’s appearances at news conferences and vigils prompted members of Facebook groups to note the similarity between her and an unknown woman seen with with Tori on a surveillance tape the afternoon she disappeared.

The accusations intensified after police released a composite sketch of the woman and further description from a witness’s account on April 21.

Many Woodstock residents have said they tipped off the police about the similarities between Leeper and the mystery woman.

Neighbours said police have interviewed them about the Leepers.

One father said police asked his children about seeing any “extra kids” on the street.

Police have been to her house three times, Leeper said.

“The cops keeping asking me, ‘you have to know something,’ ” Leeper said. “I have nothing.”

Police have searched her house, with no need for a warrant, she said.

“I let them in. I am trying to be co-operative.”

She spoke openly with The Free Press. The only question she didn’t answer is if she had taken a lie detector test.

Sitting on her spacious backyard deck on the modern home she rents, Leeper described a normal family life disrupted by the accusations.

Her husband works in a body shop and she’s licensed to sell cars. They raise a girl, 9, and a boy, 13, from her first marriage.

“We’re pretty normal. We try to make the best lives for our children.”

She and McDonald have known each other since Grade 6.

“Tara and I were really super close when we were younger. We are close but we have taken different paths.”

Those different paths took Leeper out of Woodstock. For the past six years, the pair kept in touch mainly by Internet and phone calls.

Leeper missed her hometown, but her husband and children didn’t want to move.

“I fought tooth and nail to come here,” she said, with a laugh. “I love Woodstock. I still do.”

She moved a week before Tori was abducted — another sign, say her accusers, of something suspicious.

In that week, though, Leeper said, she didn’t get a chance to meet Tori.

Police say Tori knew her abductor well enough to leave school with her.

“Tori couldn’t pick me out of a crowd,” Leeper said. “I don’t even know Tori.”

Police have asked Leeper to account for her whereabouts the day of the abduction.

“I don’t remember. Got up, put the kids on the bus, maybe cleaned the house, maybe got groceries,” she told The Free Press.

The afternoon Tori was abducted, she was waiting at home for her own children to get off the school bus — as she does every day, Leeper said.

When police released the composite sketch, her first reaction was “oh oh,” Leeper said, because of the similarities.

“Absolutely I did because I am Tara’s best friend. This is an obvious conclusion to come to.”

But Leeper said there are several differences between her appearance and the descriptions of the abductor given by police.

The abductor, police say, is about 5’2” and about 125 lbs.

Leeper said she’s 5’5” and 155 lbs.

“I am no little toothpick.”

The abductor is described as between 19 and 25.

Leeper is 31.

The abductor is described as white, and Leeper is half Ojibway.

The abductor has long straight hair. Leeper’s is curly.

The abductor didn’t wear glasses. Leeper said she wears sunglasses outside at all times because of one “lazy eye” that inhibits her ability to focus in daylight.

At home, she wears reading glasses, “24/7,” Leeper said.

Leeper backed up McDonald’s story that on April 23 they and two others were whisked by limo to meet a mysterious benefactor in Toronto who offered to help with any ransom money.

It was “exactly the way Tara explained it. It happened. We were nervous. You do what you can.”

Occasionally, Leeper will show up before or during the daily news conferences McDonald holds on her front lawn.

“They can say whatever they want about me. I am not going to desert my friend,” Leeper said.

“The cops, it’s no secret they suspect her (McDonald), which is crazy. When it comes to being a mother, she is exceptional. Because I am her best friend, they automatically suspect me.”

Leeper said she’s been tempted to respond online to allegations.

“I haven’t been replying to them because I don’t want to give them any more ammunition. They are going off on one picture.”

Leeper said she’s co-operated with police, letting them search her house without a warrant.

Hanging on the back of a chair in full view during that search was her own white jacket, a different style than the one worn by the abductor, Leeper said.

“My white coat has burgundy sleeves. It is not stylish. It is to go tobogganing with children in

[justbetweenus]

In today's press conference Rodney explained that he was told Tori was walking in the East Park area with a bunch of other kids. A reporter asked him if he told this contradiction to police, Rodney said no.

I don't believe he did not talk to the police about this. I think they are told to keep their mouths shut. He probably should not have said anything about where Tori was.

I forgot about that. Ok when Rodney said he was told Tori was walking in the park, did he mean the police told him? If so I have a thought about that.

[wubblewobble]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

You all have some pretty good theories going. I hope they help bring Tori home, she's been gone long enough. I'm a FB refugee too. I got tired of the fighting & found WS through a trusty old google search. I left because people were getting verbally attacked when they mentioned Tara possibly being involved. The reason (aside from the obvious-getting Tori home safely) I'm still interested in this case is the way Tara acts. I smell fish! I'm a Torontonian & don't pay much attention to the news. Bad things happen every day but Tara, guilty or not has people paying attention.



I have to agree with the posters who have said they don't think bikers would harm a child. I've known many clubbers over the years & while a few are a bit "rough around the edges" they would never harm a child. I can see them maybe smacking a lippy girlfriend but I could never imagine them ever kidnapping or hurting a kid.
Bikers take care of their own, I'm sure if Tara really has ties to the biker community & she knew who had Tori, she'd be home by now, safe & sound.

[Turbododger]

Christie Blatchford's Article on Today's Presser:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090507.wblatch0507/BNStory/National/home

[canadiansugarangel]

After looking at the photographs of the vehicle, I wonder if this whole thing isn't a ploy to distract us from looking at something else??? This vehicle was BEHIND Tori and the woman. That makes no sense if they were involved - unless they have additional photos of the car pulling into the nursing home, which I doubt. A red herring....MOO.
I was thinkingthis too, did they pull this car out and ask the public to look for it, jsut to keep us from heading into a different direction?
sounds plausable to me.

[canadiansugarangel]

Wow eh? So the police MUST suspect TM. This 'best friend' just screwed TM as none of this was 'public knowledge" about TM. No wonder the focus is still in Woodstock, no wonder the police haven't issued an amber alert!! This really brings a new light on things!!
this article is no longer available, anyone know where another one would be?

[justbetweenus]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

You all have some pretty good theories going. I hope they help bring Tori home, she's been gone long enough. I'm a FB refugee too. I got tired of the fighting & found WS through a trusty old google search. I left because people were getting verbally attacked when they mentioned Tara possibly being involved. The reason (aside from the obvious-getting Tori home safely) I'm still interested in this case is the way Tara acts. I smell fish! I'm a Torontonian & don't pay much attention to the news. Bad things happen every day but Tara, guilty or not has people paying attention.



I have to agree with the posters who have said they don't think bikers would harm a child. I've known many clubbers over the years & while a few are a bit "rough around the edges" they would never harm a child. I can see them maybe smacking a lippy girlfriend but I could never imagine them ever kidnapping or hurting a kid.
Bikers take care of their own, I'm sure if Tara really has ties to the biker community & she knew who had Tori, she'd be home by now, safe & sound.

Hi wubble. I haven't followed FB for approx 2 weeks now, because of the bickering etc. I found one had to scroll past 75 posts to read one good one. And besides, aren't most of the good info posted here originally come from FB? IMO it's easier to follow here.:)

I also agree with you concerning bikers and children.

[ChaChaCha]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

You all have some pretty good theories going. I hope they help bring Tori home, she's been gone long enough. I'm a FB refugee too. I got tired of the fighting & found WS through a trusty old google search. I left because people were getting verbally attacked when they mentioned Tara possibly being involved. The reason (aside from the obvious-getting Tori home safely) I'm still interested in this case is the way Tara acts. I smell fish! I'm a Torontonian & don't pay much attention to the news. Bad things happen every day but Tara, guilty or not has people paying attention.



I have to agree with the posters who have said they don't think bikers would harm a child. I've known many clubbers over the years & while a few are a bit "rough around the edges" they would never harm a child. I can see them maybe smacking a lippy girlfriend but I could never imagine them ever kidnapping or hurting a kid.
Bikers take care of their own, I'm sure if Tara really has ties to the biker community & she knew who had Tori, she'd be home by now, safe & sound.

So complicated, isn't it? My husband is of the firm opinion that Tori has been taken south of the border - disguised a bit, crossing at Niagara because it is so busy there any no one pays any attention. He notes that no one in the States would be aware of a Canadian kidnapping, and feels that she is likely with a family who will take her in as one of their own. I wonder though, because Tori is old enough to know who she is and where she is from...

Generally, I would agree that hurting a child is outside of the realm. Time will likely tell...

By the way, this is just a theory/rumour - so you should likely take it to the parking lot...

[deidree]

“Tori couldn’t pick me out of a crowd,” Leeper said. “I don’t even know Tori.”

I think this is a little strange. If her and Tara are "best friends" as she claims, wouldn't Tara possibly have pictures of her, and of them together? Tori could easily recognize her from a photograph.

[justbetweenus]

“Tori couldn’t pick me out of a crowd,” Leeper said. “I don’t even know Tori.”

I think this is a little strange. If her and Tara are "best friends" as she claims, wouldn't Tara possibly have pictures of her, and of them together? Tori could easily recognize her from a photograph.

Because this article was suddenly pulled I wonder if it's true.

[justbetweenus]

this article is no longer available, anyone know where another one would be?

Justice posted a copy up above.

[ChaChaCha]

Because this article was suddenly pulled I wonder if it's true.

I must be getting tired... I thought I read about the limo ride that there were four - JJ (or whatevertheh*ll his flippin name is), TM, JG and best friend...

Was this a different friend that went for the ride or were there only three passengers and a driver?

[girlfriday]

The media has stated that the poi vehicle was seen shortly after Tori and her abductor passed the camera. I note that the man and his son have also left the area at this point. Presumably they would also have turned and walked the same direction as Tori so there would have been only in the frame for a few seconds prior to the car.

If you look at the footage of the VOI on YouTube - the time stamp is visable (when it shows the portions that are not 'cleaned-up') At the bottom of the screen, it looks to me like the time was 3:37 when the car passed.

Mind you, the 'day' stamp looks to me like "00" when I'd expect to see "08".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=channel_page

[justbetweenus]

So complicated, isn't it? My husband is of the firm opinion that Tori has been taken south of the border - disguised a bit, crossing at Niagara because it is so busy there any no one pays any attention. He notes that no one in the States would be aware of a Canadian kidnapping, and feels that she is likely with a family who will take her in as one of their own. I wonder though, because Tori is old enough to know who she is and where she is from...

Generally, I would agree that hurting a child is outside of the realm. Time will likely tell...

By the way, this is just a theory/rumour - so you should likely take it to the parking lot...

See I don't see this as rumour. It's your hubbys opinion on what happened.

[siestalola]

I must be getting tired... I thought I read about the limo ride that there were four - JJ (or whatevertheh*ll his flippin name is), TM, JG and best friend...

Was this a different friend that went for the ride or were there only three passengers and a driver?

No you're correct. It was TM. JG. JJ(formerly JM). and her friend (Sarah)

She apparently like everyone else involved has MORE THAN ONE LAST NAME!

What's up with that anyway, so confusing

[justbetweenus]

I must be getting tired... I thought I read about the limo ride that there were four - JJ (or whatevertheh*ll his flippin name is), TM, JG and best friend...

Was this a different friend that went for the ride or were there only three passengers and a driver?

I took it to be that same friend. :confused:

[MsRyber]

See I don't see this as rumour. It's your hubbys opinion on what happened.


I posted this before and I will post again.

I went across this weekend. I have 3 kids. One has a different last name than myself.

EVERY TIME I have went across (this weekend was no exception), I had to produce birth certificates for the kids. I was told to pull over, where I was talked to, at length. They scanned my license plate, asked for my ownership/etc. I explained that my oldest child has her father's last name. He rattled off quick questions "Birth date, place of birth, hospital, father's name" etc. Had to pop my trunk both on the way into the States and back across.

I have never been able to get across the border without being questioned.

I would love to follow whomever is able to get over with their kids (who have different last names) without a hassle. It has NEVER happened for me. OF course, my daughter is blonde, and I am a dark brown...who knows.

All I know is people make it seem like it is so easy to smuggle kids across. It used to be. It isn't now.

You could test your luck at Amherstburg, or Wahpole Island. You might have a better chance there. But you know the undercover stuff that goes on at Wahpole...so...maybe not.

[crazyladi]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

You all have some pretty good theories going. I hope they help bring Tori home, she's been gone long enough. I'm a FB refugee too. I got tired of the fighting & found WS through a trusty old google search. I left because people were getting verbally attacked when they mentioned Tara possibly being involved. The reason (aside from the obvious-getting Tori home safely) I'm still interested in this case is the way Tara acts. I smell fish! I'm a Torontonian & don't pay much attention to the news. Bad things happen every day but Tara, guilty or not has people paying attention.



I have to agree with the posters who have said they don't think bikers would harm a child. I've known many clubbers over the years & while a few are a bit "rough around the edges" they would never harm a child. I can see them maybe smacking a lippy girlfriend but I could never imagine them ever kidnapping or hurting a kid.
Bikers take care of their own, I'm sure if Tara really has ties to the biker community & she knew who had Tori, she'd be home by now, safe & sound.








http://www.topix.com/forum/city/newark-nj/TABD7MQG14T1BGICK

I was always under the assumption that bikers didnt hurt children or even women but this link says otherwise.


I heard it mentioned that TM's brother doesnt look like a bad ass? He looks very much like a biker, possible associate possible hells angel.


There is a calgary chapter, that maybe he is part of? JMO


Can anyone link me the presser with TM, RS and DS?

Sara, TM and TM's stepbrother, and TM boyfriend IMO are involved.

[doubletrouble]

I must be getting tired... I thought I read about the limo ride that there were four - JJ (or whatevertheh*ll his flippin name is), TM, JG and best friend...

Was this a different friend that went for the ride or were there only three passengers and a driver?

it was jj, tm, sara-bf, and jg ..four of them and one limo driver...daryn got in for the ride later

[ChaChaCha]

See I don't see this as rumour. It's your hubbys opinion on what happened.

Thank you justbetweenus - I will be sure to tell him.

[ChaChaCha]

PepperFritz - you are local! Go for a walk. Borrow a dog or something! Go look and see where the action is tonight...report back! I can't do it - my dog won't walk that far!!!

[crazyladi]

I live 45min from woodstock and there is rarely anything mentioned on the news about TORI anymore. When i talk to people about it they say i have too much time on my hands. People forgot about her from the get go from where I am from. "oh ya that girl, whatever happened to her?"

[ChaChaCha]

I live 45min from woodstock and there is rarely anything mentioned on the news about TORI anymore. When i talk to people about it they say i have too much time on my hands. People forgot about her from the get go from where I am from. "oh ya that girl, whatever happened to her?"

I'm about the same distance away as you... how can anyone just FORGET what is going on?

Hoping that tomorrow Tori is back home!

[doubletrouble]

cant keep eyes open...sleeper kicking in...lol ...now not sure where to post ...rumor board or here....been hanging out at rumor board...lol hopefully this will be the start of toris new forum...nite nite all

[kaas]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090507.wblatch0507/BNStory/National/home

Is Tori's mother a victim or a suspect?

Just a couple of comments regarding this article:

“And there's absolutely no reason why I would have something done to my child, you know kidnap or other, and if I was going to have one child kidnapped, why not the other one?” Then, using the words “kidnap” and “protect” as though they were interchangeable, she added, “You know, why would I only protect Victoria and not Daryn [her 11-year-old son]? It just doesn't make sense.”

I think she made this comment in reference to the theory that someone had taken Victoria to protect her. Not necessarily confirming that this is true.

“Well, he was here you know, so I mean, so if you think about it, like his mum was my dad's first wife, so she would have nothing to do with it, but the fact that they're out there and checking, we appreciate the fact that they're checking into everything.”

So we now have confirmation that J J is indeed a "brother" on her biological father's side. Her mother being married 3 times (McDonald, Harris, Winters). http://cgi.bowesonline.com/pedro.php?id=306&x=obituaries_result&keyword=mcdonald&order_by=dateofdeath&pos=0&xid=42370#42370 http://cgi.bowesonline.com/pedro.php?id=306&x=obituaries_result&keyword=hickson&order_by=dateofdeath&pos=0&xid=53222
And her father at least twice. This information does not necessarily have any bearing on this case but clears up some confusion as to Tara's references to family members.

[kaas]

The : Tara McDonald's best friend speaks article is back up and can be found here:
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/

[Patience]

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/newark-nj/TABD7MQG14T1BGICK

I was always under the assumption that bikers didnt hurt children or even women but this link says otherwise.


I heard it mentioned that TM's brother doesnt look like a bad ass? He looks very much like a biker, possible associate possible hells angel.


There is a calgary chapter, that maybe he is part of? JMO


Can anyone link me the presser with TM, RS and DS?

Sara, TM and TM's stepbrother, and TM boyfriend IMO are involved.


From the same article.

“his fellow members of the Hells Angels kicked him out of the club.”

[CarrieBean]

I posted this before and I will post again.

I went across this weekend. I have 3 kids. One has a different last name than myself.

EVERY TIME I have went across (this weekend was no exception), I had to produce birth certificates for the kids. I was told to pull over, where I was talked to, at length. They scanned my license plate, asked for my ownership/etc. I explained that my oldest child has her father's last name. He rattled off quick questions "Birth date, place of birth, hospital, father's name" etc. Had to pop my trunk both on the way into the States and back across.

I have never been able to get across the border without being questioned.

I would love to follow whomever is able to get over with their kids (who have different last names) without a hassle. It has NEVER happened for me. OF course, my daughter is blonde, and I am a dark brown...who knows.

All I know is people make it seem like it is so easy to smuggle kids across. It used to be. It isn't now.

You could test your luck at Amherstburg, or Wahpole Island. You might have a better chance there. But you know the undercover stuff that goes on at Wahpole...so...maybe not.
My kids have a different last name than mine and I never had a problem. Was over many times with my bf (who obviously also has different last name) and my kids. The most they have done is take a look in the back seat, I'm guessing to make sure there was no distress on the kids faces. This wasn't the Ambassador bridge though, it was the International bridge but trust me they hassle people just the same. I've heard of many people who have been hassled over this scenario. I guess I just don't look like the kidnapping/criminal type, lol. Kind of funny, my man doesn't like to go over without me because he is more likely to get hassled for something.

ETA: My son has also been across a few times with his friends to go to the water park. I always sent a note with my contact info and signature with the parents, and they have never been asked for it.

[CarrieBean]

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/newark-nj/TABD7MQG14T1BGICK

I was always under the assumption that bikers didnt hurt children or even women but this link says otherwise.


I heard it mentioned that TM's brother doesnt look like a bad ass? He looks very much like a biker, possible associate possible hells angel.


There is a calgary chapter, that maybe he is part of? JMO


Can anyone link me the presser with TM, RS and DS?

Sara, TM and TM's stepbrother, and TM boyfriend IMO are involved.
Thanks for that link. These losers are everywhere. But this is one moron, not a whole gang involved.

I think it was the other brother who someone was saying didn't look like a bad ass, not the one at the PC's.

[CarrieBean]

PepperFritz - you are local! Go for a walk. Borrow a dog or something! Go look and see where the action is tonight...report back! I can't do it - my dog won't walk that far!!!
I'd probably park around the corner and take the dog for a short walk, lol.

[CarrieBean]

The : Tara McDonald's best friend speaks article is back up and can be found here:
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/
Her white jacket on a chair in plain view. She was tobogganing with the kids in April? :crazy:

[crazyladi]

From the same article.

“his fellow members of the Hells Angels kicked him out of the club.”

Kicked who out? TM's step brother???

[CarrieBean]

Kicked who out? TM's step brother???
A member convicted for child pornography.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/25644904.html

[another nosey mom]

I posted this before and I will post again.

I went across this weekend. I have 3 kids. One has a different last name than myself.

EVERY TIME I have went across (this weekend was no exception), I had to produce birth certificates for the kids. I was told to pull over, where I was talked to, at length. They scanned my license plate, asked for my ownership/etc. I explained that my oldest child has her father's last name. He rattled off quick questions "Birth date, place of birth, hospital, father's name" etc. Had to pop my trunk both on the way into the States and back across.

I have never been able to get across the border without being questioned.

I would love to follow whomever is able to get over with their kids (who have different last names) without a hassle. It has NEVER happened for me. OF course, my daughter is blonde, and I am a dark brown...who knows.

All I know is people make it seem like it is so easy to smuggle kids across. It used to be. It isn't now.

You could test your luck at Amherstburg, or Wahpole Island. You might have a better chance there. But you know the undercover stuff that goes on at Wahpole...so...maybe not.

Good Morning, All,
I agree with this, it is VERY hard to cross without all of the particulars - even when your kids have the same name as you... we came across this once when we were flying home from US, our son was maybe 3 and sitting on my husband's shoulders... the border agent made our 3yr old, say what his name was, and then he asked him who his mom and dad were - it was really odd, but I guess if that is what they have to do let them do it. I would find it very difficult for anyone trying to hide ANYTHING and trying to cross the border.

[Mazama]

A member convicted for child pornography.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/25644904.html

That sheds a whole new light on the "bikers don't hurt kids" theory eh? :waitasec:

[captaincanada]

Here's a picture showing the Kellestine farm from the Bandido trial. Notice the sign in the front. "Bikers against Pedophiles".

I truly believe bikers wouldn't harm a child.

http://www.lfpress.com/gallery/2954/photos/3292465769_4.jpg

[Mazama]

Good morning all.

Hope I don't miss too much, I'm off to pick up BBQ supplies. :woohoo:

[CarrieBean]

That sheds a whole new light on the "bikers don't hurt kids" theory eh? :waitasec:
It's not that bikers don't hurt kids. Biker gangs don't hurt kids. I'd be surprised if this guy lives very long.

[Mazama]

Here's a picture showing the Kellestine farm from the Bandido trial. Notice the sign in the front. "Bikers against Pedophiles".

I truly believe bikers wouldn't harm a child.

http://www.lfpress.com/gallery/2954/photos/3292465769_4.jpg

I respect your opinion...but there are so many out there from all walks of life who have done the unspeakable to a child and I truly believe that bikers are not exempt from it.

[kaas]

If you look at the footage of the VOI on YouTube - the time stamp is visable (when it shows the portions that are not 'cleaned-up') At the bottom of the screen, it looks to me like the time was 3:37 when the car passed.

Mind you, the 'day' stamp looks to me like "00" when I'd expect to see "08".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=channel_page

The time stamp on the video of Tori and her abductor walking past the camera is 3:32.22 pm so we presume that the VOI passed by 5 minutes after Tori. Hmmmmmmm

[another nosey mom]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CoverPhoto/2009/05/08/20090508.pdf

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/08/9391431-sun.html

[captaincanada]

The time stamp on the video of Tori and her abductor walking past the camera is 3:32.22 pm so we presume that the VOI passed by 5 minutes after Tori. Hmmmmmmm

I wonder if they have video of the 15 minutes or so BEFORE the POI and Victoria walked by the video. I'm sure they must have something showing the POI walking TO the school.

[captaincanada]

I respect your opinion...but there are so many out there from all walks of life who have done the unspeakable to a child and I truly believe that bikers are not exempt from it.

Oh, I wouldn't rule out that any individual just because he/she is a biker, wouldn't harm a child. What I meant is that bikers in general wouldn't tolerate that, if they were to find out a member was a pedophile. Guaranteed.

So, if it were the case that somehow a biker gang took Tori for whatever reason, I would highly doubt they would harm her. JMO

[another nosey mom]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1559645

[greatwhitenorth]

My kids have a different last name than mine and I never had a problem. Was over many times with my bf (who obviously also has different last name) and my kids. The most they have done is take a look in the back seat, I'm guessing to make sure there was no distress on the kids faces. This wasn't the Ambassador bridge though, it was the International bridge but trust me they hassle people just the same. I've heard of many people who have been hassled over this scenario. I guess I just don't look like the kidnapping/criminal type, lol. Kind of funny, my man doesn't like to go over without me because he is more likely to get hassled for something.

ETA: My son has also been across a few times with his friends to go to the water park. I always sent a note with my contact info and signature with the parents, and they have never been asked for it.

I have to agree, I kept my maiden name and I have a son from a previous. So that equals 3 different names. Never had a real problem.

[margaret_diane]

If you look at the footage of the VOI on YouTube - the time stamp is visable (when it shows the portions that are not 'cleaned-up') At the bottom of the screen, it looks to me like the time was 3:37 when the car passed.

Mind you, the 'day' stamp looks to me like "00" when I'd expect to see "08".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=channel_page


when the VOI video was released, they were discussing on FB... and someone over there was ADAMANT of this:
- Tory and POI walked by at 3:32pm.
- VOI drove by at 3:37pm

But I don't recall who said this, or what their connection to family (if any?) was. I don't even recall where they got this info from.... but it might be useful...

[kaas]

The time stamp on the video of Tori and her abductor walking past the camera is 3:32.22 pm so we presume that the VOI passed by 5 minutes after Tori. Hmmmmmmm


Quoting myself here lol The released videos can be viewed at youtube. The unedited ones only have the time stamp on them.

[paris_paris]

Can anyone pls advise me of the names of the posters on teh FB site claiming they were investigated by LE today as a result of a tip?? I'd be very interested to know!!

One of them was me. What about it?

[captaincanada]

With regards to the 3:32 PM time on the video surveillance. Has anyone thought that maybe the clock on the video surveillance is off? If it is out by 2-3 minutes from when Tori's school bell rings, maybe it isn't so weird that she walked up the hill in that time? Just a thought.

[CarrieBean]

One of them was me. What about it?
Investigated or investigated a tip you called in?

[CarrieBean]

With regards to the 3:32 PM time on the video surveillance. Has anyone thought that maybe the clock on the video surveillance is off? If it is out by 2-3 minutes from when Tori's school bell rings, maybe it isn't so weird that she walked up the hill in that time? Just a thought.
Pretty sure LE would have thought of this.

[paris_paris]

It wasn't a tip I called in. It was my father-in-law's house. The searched all the houses on his road. They told him they were there on a tip they had received.

[Flowercb]

I wonder if they have video of the 15 minutes or so BEFORE the POI and Victoria walked by the video. I'm sure they must have something showing the POI walking TO the school.

Not if she met Tori on the path/road that her friends saw her on before she showed up on Fyfe with the woman with the white jacket.

[Flowercb]

It wasn't a tip I called in. It was my father-in-law's house. The searched all the houses on his road. They told him they were there on a tip they had received.

What do they do when the "search" a home. Do they tear the place apart of just look in closets and under beds. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. It looks like they are just grasping at straws with a reliable good tip or evidence.

[CarrieBean]

It wasn't a tip I called in. It was my father-in-law's house. The searched all the houses on his road. They told him they were there on a tip they had received.
Thanks. I don't suppose you heard if they found anything on that road?

[paris_paris]

They looked all through the house, checked all the rooms, not sure about closets, and his outbuildings. It's in a rural area. They asked him if he'd seen anything suspicious. That's about it.

As far as I know they found nothing on the road.

[kaas]

From here http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/08/9391461-sun.html

Chronology of a missing girl May 8, 2008

"April 8: Eight-year-old Tori Stafford attends Oliver Stephens public school on Fyfe Avenue in Woodstock. School officials say she left when school let out at 3:25 p.m. -- not 3:40 p.m. as police have reported. Seven minutes later, in front of an adjacent secondary school, a security camera videotapes her walking north on Fyfe Avenue with a woman whose identity has become a focal point of the investigation. Shortly after 6 p.m., Tori's mother and partner contact police and report her missing. Police begin their search. "

[another nosey mom]

Thanks. I don't suppose you heard if they found anything on that road?

does this mean you are related to Tori's family?

[PepperFritz]

PepperFritz - you are local! Go for a walk. Borrow a dog or something! Go look and see where the action is tonight...report back! I can't do it - my dog won't walk that far!!!

My dogs probably won't make it all the way from Ingersoll to Woodstock. I know I wouldn't. Luckily I have a car and can drive there. Is there anywhere or anything in particular you want me to check out?

:crazy:

[crazyladi]

McDonald provided a better account to reporters about the panic of that painful Wednesday night. Describing how she and her mother went looking for Tori after she failed to return home, McDonald said they encountered a police officer in front of Oliver Stephens who was searching for another missing child.



Okay so here is my two cents..

So they approached a police car in which the cop was there looking for a missing kid or investigating it (not quite sure what the case was) and they were told to go to the police station? Now that would have been two missing kids in the same area, no??? pretty sure that cop would not have sent them to the station he would have called it in because two children that dont know each other dont go missing around the same time span. JMO

all the stories from all parties dont add up and dont make any sense. I really feel there is a big secret here and they all in on it....... wait until the walls come crashing down. This story is going to be remembered that is for sure.. its just too bad that Tori had to be the innocent victim in all of this.

[paris_paris]

I am not related. I don't even know the family.

I came up with 2 possibilities why they searched there. One would be the psychic Sterling Sinclair's stuff. He was saying Paris, Pinehurst area. Maybe somebody called it in. (I did not).

The other was a FB post on Daryn's birthday. Something about "Happy Birthday Daryn, I hope you find your sister here." In the post was a link to a google map pointing to that road.

[kaas]

It would certainly appear that the police are checking out any and all tips they receive. Either they really have no clear direction in this case or they are making sure that once charges are laid the defense has no opening for declaring tunnel vision on the part of LE. I do hope it is the latter.

[margaret_diane]

One of them was me. What about it?

Hi Paris,
Just to be clear -- you were saying your father in law's home was checked by LE?? Can you provide info as to your experience? What did they say? Did they have warrants?? Just curious to know how it went down? If you can share, would love to hear your experience. Thanks!

(ETA: when I got caught up , noticed FIL's house was searched, not poster's home). Changed sentence to be more accurate.

[kaas]

Paris, did the motorcycle ride drive down that road last Saturday?

[PepperFritz]

I wonder if they have video of the 15 minutes or so BEFORE the POI and Victoria walked by the video. I'm sure they must have something showing the POI walking TO the school.

Not if she came from the other direction. An accomplice could have dropped her off further south on Fyfe, then drove north and parked wherever the POI and Victoria eventually walked to.

[another nosey mom]

McDonald provided a better account to reporters about the panic of that painful Wednesday night. Describing how she and her mother went looking for Tori after she failed to return home, McDonald said they encountered a police officer in front of Oliver Stephens who was searching for another missing child.



Okay so here is my two cents..

So they approached a police car in which the cop was there looking for a missing kid or investigating it (not quite sure what the case was) and they were told to go to the police station? Now that would have been two missing kids in the same area, no??? pretty sure that cop would not have sent them to the station he would have called it in because two children that dont know each other dont go missing around the same time span. JMO

all the stories from all parties dont add up and dont make any sense. I really feel there is a big secret here and they all in on it....... wait until the walls come crashing down. This story is going to be remembered that is for sure.. its just too bad that Tori had to be the innocent victim in all of this.

I agree, if someone comes up to a police car to say a kid is missing, 2nd of the night, they are going to tell them to call police - ???? They are the police for heaven's sake, I would think they would put them in the car and take them to the station or call it in and send another police car down - I would think they (police) would be on it asap

[CarrieBean]

My dogs probably won't make it all the way from Ingersoll to Woodstock. I know I wouldn't. Luckily I have a car and can drive there. Is there anywhere or anything in particular you want me to check out?

:crazy:
Do you have a camera? Some photos of the surrounding area Tori was seen on video would be nice...or a video of the surrounding area, including where the security camera is placed. :D

[CarrieBean]

I am not related. I don't even know the family.

I came up with 2 possibilities why they searched there. One would be the psychic Sterling Sinclair's stuff. He was saying Paris, Pinehurst area. Maybe somebody called it in. (I did not).

The other was a FB post on Daryn's birthday. Something about "Happy Birthday Daryn, I hope you find your sister here." In the post was a link to a google map pointing to that road.
Strange.

[another nosey mom]

I am not related. I don't even know the family.

I came up with 2 possibilities why they searched there. One would be the psychic Sterling Sinclair's stuff. He was saying Paris, Pinehurst area. Maybe somebody called it in. (I did not).

The other was a FB post on Daryn's birthday. Something about "Happy Birthday Daryn, I hope you find your sister here." In the post was a link to a google map pointing to that road.

sorry, I misread one of the posts... wow, that is scary... are there any bikers or drug related activity on that road?? Is it a dirt road, back road???

[kaas]

Not if she came from the other direction. An accomplice could have dropped her off further south on Fyfe, then drove north and parked wherever the POI and Victoria eventually walked to.


Good point.

[CarrieBean]

I didn't get a reply in the other thread, so I'll try here.

Anyone have the link to the interview with the psychic? The one with the doll "Chloe". Wasn't Sarah in it, outside? Did she have sunglasses on?

[PepperFritz]

Do you have a camera? Some photos of the surrounding area Tori was seen on video would be nice...or a video of the surrounding area, including where the security camera is placed. :D

Sorry, I own neither a camera nor camcorder.

[CarrieBean]

Do you have a camera? Some photos of the surrounding area Tori was seen on video would be nice...or a video of the surrounding area, including where the security camera is placed. :D
Anyone in the area?

[another nosey mom]

I didn't get a reply in the other thread, so I'll try here.

Anyone have the link to the interview with the psychic? The one with the doll "Chloe". Wasn't Sarah in it, outside? Did she have sunglasses on?

I think that was from the London fp website a long time back ??

[paris_paris]

It's a back road, paved. No biker activity. There are only about a dozen houses on the road. He said there were about 8 police units, unmarked, checking all the properties. The 2 that came to his house were rookies. He said they asked him if he'd seen anything suspicious. He said the whole case seemed suspicious to him. They told him a lot of people think that.

The bike ride on the weekend went by Paris, but I don't think on that road. I'm not sure what route they took.

[CarrieBean]

I think that was from the London fp website a long time back ??
I checked there and found the one psychic (I think she was out of town) but not the one I'm thinking of. I think it was the same video where Tara showed Tori's room. Tara, James, and Sarah were in it.

[kaas]

It's a back road, paved. No biker activity. There are only about a dozen houses on the road. He said there were about 8 police units, unmarked, checking all the properties. The 2 that came to his house were rookies. He said they asked him if he'd seen anything suspicious. He said the whole case seemed suspicious to him. They told him a lot of people think that.

The bike ride on the weekend went by Paris, but I don't think on that road. I'm not sure what route they took.

Thank you Paris, The lfp reported http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/2009/05/02/9328011.html "James Goris, McDonald's boyfriend, described the ride - which wended along backroads through such towns as Paris, Ayr and Hartley - as "awesome." McDonald herself, though, was emotional."

[Flowercb]

Good point.

Then drove into the parking lot of the nursing home and picked them up again. (The mysterious car heading south on Fyfe may have turned the corner) onto Walter and gone into the parking lot.

[CarrieBean]

Thank you Paris, The lfp reported http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/2009/05/02/9328011.html "James Goris, McDonald's boyfriend, described the ride - which wended along backroads through such towns as Paris, Ayr and Hartley - as "awesome." McDonald herself, though, was emotional."

""I bawled" as the ride began at a downtown Woodstock parking lot, she (TM) said. "I'm sure CTV (camera crews) caught it." "

[margaret_diane]

About the best friend's interview the other day:
- She hasn't lived in Woodstock in 6 years.
- She said she and TM met in grade 6 and kept in touch via phone and computer.
- She said she hadn't seen Tori, and that Tori wouldn't know her.

I call B.S!! Webcams... live video chats..... emails... phone calls.... TM is clearly able to use a computer (she has FB!).... so even if she hadn't met her live in years and years... she would've recognized her (more than likely!) from the computer interactions (maybe mom put her on a video chat with Tori!).......... So ya... B.S!!

[kaas]

I am wondering if there is a reporter error in regards to the route the motorcycle ride took. Hartley Ont is in the Kawarthas, however there is a Harley Ontario, a small village southeast of Woodstock.

[another nosey mom]

http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=130433&x=articles&s=massacre

just an interesting article about biker gang relations ...

[another nosey mom]

where did she move back from?

[kaas]

Here is a link to a map showing the areas mentioned in the news release regarding the motorcycle ride:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=woodstock&daddr=Paris+to:Ayr+Ontario+to:Harley+ontario&geocode=&hl=en&gl=ca&mra=ls&sll=43.138072,-80.478973&sspn=0.241506,0.615234&ie=UTF8&ll=43.177642,-80.435028&spn=0.24135,0.615234&t=h&z=11

Have no idea what route or order of towns, villages visited but it does give a view of the area.

[paris_paris]

I am wondering if there is a reporter error in regards to the route the motorcycle ride took. Hartley Ont is in the Kawarthas, however there is a Harley Ontario, a small village southeast of Woodstock.

It was Harley

[Smugshots]

About the best friend's interview the other day:
- She hasn't lived in Woodstock in 6 years.
- She said she and TM met in grade 6 and kept in touch via phone and computer.
- She said she hadn't seen Tori, and that Tori wouldn't know her.

I call B.S!! Webcams... live video chats..... emails... phone calls.... TM is clearly able to use a computer (she has FB!).... so even if she hadn't met her live in years and years... she would've recognized her (more than likely!) from the computer interactions (maybe mom put her on a video chat with Tori!).......... So ya... B.S!!

Well, even if she didn't recognize her visually, she should know her Mom's bf's name.

[Sparklin]

I didn't get a reply in the other thread, so I'll try here.

Anyone have the link to the interview with the psychic? The one with the doll "Chloe". Wasn't Sarah in it, outside? Did she have sunglasses on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLldHMvTrQ


here you go!

[kaas]

So Pinhurst Rd could very well have been on the route.http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=woodstock&daddr=Paris+to:Ayr+Ontario+to:Harley+ontario&geocode=&hl=en&gl=ca&mra=ls&sll=43.138072,-80.478973&sspn=0.241506,0.615234&ie=UTF8&ll=43.177642,-80.435028&spn=0.24135,0.615234&t=h&z=11

[paris_paris]

So Pinhurst Rd could very well have been on the route.http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=woodstock&daddr=Paris+to:Ayr+Ontario+to:Harley+ontario&geocode=&hl=en&gl=ca&mra=ls&sll=43.138072,-80.478973&sspn=0.241506,0.615234&ie=UTF8&ll=43.177642,-80.435028&spn=0.24135,0.615234&t=h&z=11

I'd like to adjust your map.

From Harley to 53. 53 to Bishopsgate Rd. Bishopsgate job over to Falkland Rd. Falkland to Keg Lane. Then on to #15 to Ayr.

They would have crossed over Paris Plains Church Rd., but not travelled on it. I am very sure the bikes did NOT go through downtown Paris.

[CarrieBean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvLldHMvTrQ


here you go!
Thank you!!!

At about 1:53 in the video. Is this not Sarah NOT wearing sunglasses outside?


"The abductor didn’t wear glasses. Leeper said she wears sunglasses outside at all times because of one “lazy eye” that inhibits her ability to focus in daylight."
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1558440

ETA: Can't tell if her glasses are tinted or not, but they're nowhere close to the sunglasses from the article.