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terminatrixator
05-13-2009, 07:05 PM
Abaroa's Second Wife Speaks Out By NC WANTED Staff
Posted: May. 12, 2009
Updated: 57 minutes ago


http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/5130124/


DURHAM COUNTY — The new wife of Raven Abaroa, a person of interest in the 2005 stabbing death of his first wife Janet, has come forward with startling details about her relationship with Abaroa that may assist the murder investigation.

Vanessa Pond, of Utah, told NC WANTED in an exclusive interview that during their short marriage, Raven was abusive both physically and mentally, profoundly deceitful, and prone to sudden, intense mood swings.

Investigators met with Vanessa, who was joined by her parents, Randy and JoDean Pond, while they were in Durham for the NC WANTED interview to gain a better perspective on the Raven Abaroa only a wife could know, and what that might mean for the Janet Abaroa murder investigation.

Vanessa Pond and Raven Abaroa met in early December of 2007 and were engaged six months later, on Mother’s Day. As the wedding approached, Vanessa said, Raven’s behavior shifted. He became violent.

“The day of my bridal shower was the first time. He threw me down and he pushed me around that day,” Vanessa told NC WANTED. She was reluctant to tell her story to the media, fearing for her safety in Utah with Raven nearby, but she ultimately felt that it was the right thing to do.

“I don’t want anyone else to ever be in this same position, ever. And he’ll keep on going. He’s starting to slip and he’s becoming more dangerous,” she said.

After two and half months of marriage, the couple separated on Christmas Eve 2008. Vanessa recalled the night he left:

“He was in the process of cursing me out and calling me names, telling me how much he hated me, and he didn’t care if I died. So he was pushing me around in the bathroom and wouldn’t let me out of the bathroom… Then he said, ‘you know what? I want to hit you so bad. I don’t care, I’m going to hit you; I can’t get in trouble for it anymore,’” she said.

“And later, as Raven was leaving, he went downstairs and grabbed Kaiden and said, ‘come on, we have to go. Mommy doesn’t want us anymore… Who does that to a child?”

EmMomma
05-13-2009, 07:07 PM
You GO, Vanessa.
Maybe she can help LE FINALLY make this stick.

terminatrixator
05-13-2009, 07:51 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5138321/



Durham widower's new wife talks to police about unsolved murder

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/05/13/5142776/abaroafamily-220x165.jpg
Posted: Today at 6:02 p.m.
Updated: 5 minutes ago
Durham, N.C. — Four years after the stabbing death of Janet Abaroa, a pregnant Durham woman, police have new information about her widower, whom they have not ruled out as a suspect in the case.

Janet Christiansen Abaroa was found dead inside an upstairs bedroom at her Ferrand Road home on April 26, 2005. Her 6-month-old son, Kaiden, was also in the home but was unharmed.


Police have said they do not consider the death random and that her husband, Raven Abaroa, is a person of interest in the case.

His new wife, Vanessa Pond, and her parents, recently traveled from Utah for an interview with Durham police investigators. Abaroa and Pond remain married but are estranged.

"He had me convinced that everyone was trying to frame him, everyone was out to get him, and (he) had me there on his side," Pond said in an exclusive interview with NC Wanted.

In an October 2007 interview with Fox 50's NC Wanted, Abaroa said he had nothing to do with his wife's death. He told police he was at a soccer game in Morrisville when she was killed. He found her when he returned home, he said.

Weeks after Janet Abaroa died, he moved to Salt Lake City to be with family and to raise Kaiden.

Abaroa and Pond met in Utah in December 2007, and on Mother's Day of 2008, they were engaged. The day of her bridal shower, Pond said, she saw another side to the man she was to marry.

"He threw me down, and he pushed me around that day," Pond said.

Pond said she searched the Internet for Abaroa's name and found the October 2007 NC Wanted interview.

"He told Vanessa he spent months preparing that interview," her mother, Jodean Pond, said. "And Vanessa was thinking, 'Why would you have to prepare?'"

Vanessa Pond said she also watched a Web video, made by Abaroa, which showed him opening a knife in front of his first wife, talking about it and saying how he likes to collect knives.

"The buck knife video – I was disturbed by it," she said. "He said he never had a knife collection and never had a fascination with them."

As their wedding day approached, Pond's parents said they decided to ask Abaroa directly if he killed his first wife.

"And Raven's response to that was, 'I loved my wife,' in a beating-around-the-bush kind of way," Jodean Pond said.

"Without answering the question directly," Vanessa Pond interjected.

Despite concerns, Pond said people seemed supportive, so she married Abaroa in Utah on Sept. 6, 2008.

"I found out later that nobody liked him," she said.



---
SNIPPED - MORE AT LINK!

terminatrixator
05-13-2009, 07:54 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/5138162/

Video!!!

terminatrixator
05-13-2009, 09:31 PM
The Video had me in tears for Vanessa & her family. So many things stand out in all these articles and in the video.

It looks like Vanessa was very scared and nervous and my heart broke for her poor parents having to listen to what he did to her. She looks like she lost weight since her engagement. The pressure and the stress had to be horrendous for her and I really feel for her. I'm sure she has to be terrified for her daughter too because he is so volatile and she really was very brave to do this.

My first thought is Raven, you best not try to seek "retribution" and you POS for causing more heartache, more pain for another family.

I had heard from friends he was permanently banned from playing soccer, but to hear he actually kicked a guy in the back that was already down, with his cleats on, oh so Raven.

I noticed during the interview they showed a picture of Raven with Kaiden on his back, holding a picture of Janet. It looks exactly like a picture taken directly off Tears for Janet, the Memorial site for Janet, that he has nothing to do with. He must have scammed the picture, got it blown up and then worn the green bracelets used in SVU's Homecoming game so he can give it to NC Wanted for his 2007 Interview. I saw that picture during that interview, but never noticed he was actually holding that picture of Janet when he had that picture taken with Kaiden. That really truly makes me ill.

I noticed that Raven Abaroa Peters has been called POI on several occasions. I hope that the new crowd he's hanging with get wind of this, because I know he likes to pray on girls or women, that are vulnerable or that are going through rough times, or naive girls.

I don't know how he keeps pulling off the Good Mormon boy stuff if he's been excommunicated by the Church! I am really interested in this "excommunication". He left Janet while they were married and she was pregnant with Kaiden and he lived with another girl. He cheated on Janet several times, he was convicted of felony embezzlement, yet did not get excommunicated. He stole from Canyon Cycles, Hewlett Packard, no excommunication there. Did he tell Vanessa purposely he was excommunicated because of living with her, to perhaps start a psychological manipulation on her or was he really excommunicated?

"He told Vanessa he spent months preparing that interview," her mother, Jodean Pond, said. "And Vanessa was thinking, 'Why would you have to prepare?'"

Well, he had to prepare because that's what he does. Mr. Franklin Covey Planning himself, he planned and premeditated Janet's murder, hence no weapon or witness.

"The buck knife video – I was disturbed by it," she said. "He said he never had a knife collection and never had a fascination with them."

Well, the Video he took don't lie, but Raven does, over and over and so convincingly.

I am pretty sure Raven is going to go on a smear campaign against Vanessa and her family and make up stories and make it sound as though she was the bad guy. Vanessa stated "he would often try to convince Vanessa that she was suicidal, that her behavior was erratic, that everything was her fault." That's quite classic of Raven and I'm sure he has told anyone and everyone they knew as a couple the same thing.

I hope Vanessa files for divorce and moves on with her life and holds her head up high. Not all guys are creepy murderers like Raven, but I hope she takes time out for herself and her daughter. If anyone reads this that knows her please let her know there's a bunch of people that are standing behind her and care and will always be watching Raven. I myself am so proud that she has come forward and I'm floored by it and wish nothing but the best for your future.

Raven, another family touched by your psychopathic ways. You are pure evil dude and I can't wait until the day you are locked away, and the day I can sit at your trial.

You are the Person of Interest Raven, because you are the one that caused this. You think you are dealing with crap now? Dude, you are going to be damned for all eternity, deal with it.

Every morning when you wake up ask yourself why did I kill Janet, every night when you go to bed ask yourself, why did I kill Janet. Do you even know why you did it? Is it because you got to see how Jim was coddled and treated so well because he lost his wife? Did you think it would turn you into a super dad? Did you not want another child and were you ticked off that three days prior you had to sign papers to start paying rent again, and you were afraid you had to sell the vx?

Did you need the insurance money to try to get out of the embezzlement fiasco? Did Mommydearest want you back at home and Janet wouldn't go so you decided to kill her? Did Janet love Kaiden so much that she decided she didn't want to bring him up in a household with a madman and you didn't want her to leave? Why did you kill Janet Raven?

On April 26, 2005, you took Janet's and her unborn child's life and everything you touch you try to destroy Raven.

caffeinatd
05-14-2009, 01:25 AM
I am so glad to see this, altho I don't live in Durham any longer, very close to where Janet was murdered, I want this to be solved for Janet's family and Kaiden, and mostly to get Raven where he belongs...behind bars :behindbar

scandi
05-14-2009, 01:48 AM
Hi Terminatrixator, I do appreciate your passion in Janet's case. I have followed Michelle Young's case closely and was always aware about what happened to Janet and that there was little movement in the case. I am of the feeling that JUSTICE in N Carolina moves slowly but surely. Like to drive Sleuthers bonkers!

It seems things are cooking now in Michelle's case and hopefully she and her family, including little Cassidy, will have justice after all of this time. I hope for the same with Janet and those who love her and the memories they have, being with her.

Maybe it took Raven getting involved again to have the truth about his personality come out in 'live time', or however one says that. Now let's hope the pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place quickly.

xox

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-14-2009, 06:53 AM
I've yet to finish reading this thread and haven't watched the video yet but wanted to post this right away.

Vanessa, I'm so sorry for what you've been through (and for what Kaiden apparently has to go through on a regular basis). I truly admire your strength in making what must truly have been a very difficult decision. You've done the right thing. I hope that you and your daughter can move forward and have a wonderful life together. You both deserve that.

Clearly Confused
05-14-2009, 08:46 AM
Wow! I got goose bumps. I am glad she spoke out so nobody else has to go through this.

JustJax
05-14-2009, 11:47 AM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/5138162/

Video!!!

OMG how heartbreaking! Thank God she got out when she did.
I pray something breaks in this case soon....for Kaiden's sake. Not only is Raven continuing to terrorize women, the trama that he is exposing Kaiden to must be stopped.
I would think that after this interview that Child Protective services should be hunting him down. No child should have to witness that kind of abuse and be dragged around by his Father in his quest to collect more women to abuse.

JustJax
05-14-2009, 11:53 AM
Also makes me sick to see in his last interview that he had a ribbon on from the first vigil held for Janet and her baby. He was NOT there, they were passed out to those who attened the vigil. He has alot of nerve wearing it, just another little thing that shows me what an imposter/liar/murderer he is. :furious:

terminatrixator
05-14-2009, 12:07 PM
I'm not a writer by any stretch of the imagination. I can barely write a grocery list but I can write interrogatories or a legal brief, an email, but writing has never been one of my strong suits.

When I post here at Websleuths and online I write quickly from my heart, I don't second guess myself, I don't proof myself. I usually write out of frustration, anger, excitement. I look at my posts after I hit submit reply button. Hence the Same Stuff Different Day - Grammatical, typos, etc.

I just noticed the personal blog section. I went back and looked through the requirements and it states no case discussion.

Now that I think about it, most of my posts are more like blogs because I don't really ask questions, I don't discuss, I just speak my mind, my opinions, without consequence of asking others opinions, I state mine and that's about it.

I hope that more people that have followed this case will review the new articles at NC Wanted and view the tape and post their thoughts and opinions too.
===

Doing the Right Thing.

I am still absolutely amazed and almost floored that finally someone in Raven Abaroa's life put doing the right thing before their own self-preservation.

What I am even more surprised about is it is someone that has the most to lose. Raven is not the one to take a slight laying down.

It seems to me that the patterns of an abusive, sociopathic husband came back to play again in this marriage, as I stated it would. I know it has manifested on several occasions with coworkers, friends other girls since Janet's murder, but one family had the courage to come forward and decided that doing the right thing was important.

The strength, courage and conviction shown by Vanessa Pond is amazing to me because she has more to lose than anyone else close to him. She has a young daughter and her safety to worry about, yet she knew she had to do the right thing and come forward with what she knows.

She took a lot of flack from myself personally prior to her marriage to Raven. Many of us here know his behavior and patterns and I in particular was harsh on Vanessa. She took a chance going public and facing so many people saying things like "you asked for it", "you were warned", but she did it anyhow. She probably has coworkers, friends and family members that thought the same thing, like how could you marry him, but she still came out and spoke.

Vanessa did not look like a girl that was going to do a story for her 15 minutes of fame, she definitely does not remind me of Karen Bolton, she looks like a woman that believes in doing the right thing. Hearing her say that he tried to convince her that she was suicidal or that their crumbled marriage was her fault really did it for me. I know Raven well enough to know that he's going to do whatever he can to discredit her and her family and she knows he's going to do so, yet she came forward anyhow.

We don't always do the right thing because we may be afraid to make waves, or dredge up memories that are sometimes best forgotten. Unfortunately, some of those bad experiences get repeated and if nobody speaks up, the same crimes can be perpetuated over and over again.

So many people close to Raven know what he has done, so many people know the nasty side of Raven but chose to keep their mouths closed out of fear. They chose to keep their mouths closed due to not wanting to get involved. They chose to keep their mouths closed because they do not want to admit out loud that Raven could have perpetrated the act of plunging a knife into his wife's chest while their child slept in a crib in another room.

The Pond Family did the right thing. The fact that Vanessa and her parents were side by side and united in doing the right thing caused me so many emotions. Most parents would say just get a divorce and get away from him, don't do this, but they stood beside their daughter so she could do the right thing. You can see the strength in the family even though I am sure they are quite aware that he lives near them and that he is very vindictive and he is the type of person that can coldly smile after he performs "retribution."

This fight for Justice for Janet wasn't Vanessa's duties, she's not getting anything out of this. She could have just got a quiet divorce or annul the POI because she was married only a few months. He obviously conned her and everyone for a while and played the grieving husband.

I've heard from many people over the past 4 years that know the Person of Interest. They all state the same thing, he's charming, he's good at making you believe he's been set-up, he's good at making you believe he's misunderstood and he's innocent. They also say the same thing, they believe he did it, yet they are afraid to come forward and do the right thing because they are afraid of him and his mother.

I can't get over how he took a young woman, who had a child and played the good Mormon boy, the poor widower, and then used "excommunication" as a way to make her feel like he sacrificed his goodness for her. That's how I read that "excommunication." I'm betting that he used more than that against her, and whittled her away, like I said in a post I made on Websleuths, he was going to save up all her flaws, past indiscretions, every blemish and one day bring every mistake up and jump her with them, and use that to control her. Vanessa obviously knows he's going to attempt to do that too, yet she chose doing the right thing anyhow.

I judged Vanessa for what I knew of Raven, not what I knew of Vanessa. I judged harshly and I am so sorry that I compared her to Karen Bolton. I am also sorry that yet another family has been hurt by him.

I am so grateful that Vanessa and her family are strong enough and compassionate enough to risk being out there in order to do the right thing.

There are people out there that must know more about Raven and have information that could help in the Murder of Janet her unborn child, but they chose not to do the right thing and come forward.

PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THING!

search4truth
05-14-2009, 02:02 PM
I'm new to your blogs on this matter, and am intrigued by the candor and compassion you have about this case, and this family.
I'm the one who interviewed Vanessa, and the host of NC Wanted. Let me say I've never interviewed a more courageous person, who had so much to fear. She clearly doesn't want anyone else to suffer, as she has, and more importantly, as Janet has. Vanessa was very nervous about the interview itself, but firmly committed to doing it for all the right reasons. Her parents were pillars of strength for her to lean on. And had they not been there, she wouldn't have done the interview.
This case has generated a lot of interest in our area. Posts like this show just how much. We will continue to follow this case until there's an arrest and conviction, no matter who walks into the courtroom in shackles.

L L & S
05-14-2009, 02:30 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/5138162/

Video!!!

Bunping for Janet.

If you haven't watched this video please do. This is what we've been talking about all along. Raven is waste of skin. He's WILL hurt another human, I think it is only a matter of time.

VP.... I am so proud of you for doing this interview. I am so proud of you for speaking up. Thank you!!!! You are a very strong woman and didn't deserve this nasty bird and his evil ways in your life. You did the right thing and even though I don't know you, I wish I could hug you!! You are in my prayers and in my heart.


Rave, how DARE you! What kind of monster are you turning your son into? How many women have already suffered at your hands? I have a pretty good idea! How many more will put themselves in danger when you start playing your games with them? You are disgusting. Your own wife says that you creep everybody out, and she's right. Take a look around Rave, your charming/christian front is rapidly disappearing. Where are you trolling for innocent women now? Back at the church? In the bars? Maybe at soccer games. I know you aren't playing much... you're the Red Card King. Who hasn't seen through your masks now? Who's going to go back and look at YOUR interview with NCWanted and not see and hear anything but lies? You can't even tell the truth when you know everybody that knows you will look at that interview and KNOW that things you said are not how they happened. You lied. You lied about stupid things. You lied about everything. Have you ever heard of Karma Raven? Well you should look up the word because it's right behind you and gaining FAST.

L L & S
05-14-2009, 07:30 PM
One more thing Raven.... have you been watching Drew Peterson go down in flames? How's that make you feel?

terminatrixator
05-14-2009, 07:39 PM
I'm new to your blogs on this matter, and am intrigued by the candor and compassion you have about this case, and this family.
I'm the one who interviewed Vanessa, and the host of NC Wanted. Let me say I've never interviewed a more courageous person, who had so much to fear. She clearly doesn't want anyone else to suffer, as she has, and more importantly, as Janet has. Vanessa was very nervous about the interview itself, but firmly committed to doing it for all the right reasons. Her parents were pillars of strength for her to lean on. And had they not been there, she wouldn't have done the interview.
This case has generated a lot of interest in our area. Posts like this show just how much. We will continue to follow this case until there's an arrest and conviction, no matter who walks into the courtroom in shackles.

Thank you for doing such a wonderful job with the interview and thank you and everyone at NC Wanted for your continued interest in keeping Janet's brutal murder in the minds of the public.

NC Wanted is a wonderful program and I am extremely grateful that your show has shown so much interest in showcasing Janet's case and spreading the word and helping to search for the truth as to what really happened on April 26, 2005.

Thank you also for being so kind as to join us here at Websleuths and give us your thoughts. I agree that Vanessa is a very brave woman and really happy that Vanessa has such wonderful and compassionate parents to help her through this ordeal.

How sad for Kaiden that he will not have this kind and loving family in his life.

My heart goes out to everyone that has been so touched by this crime.

Thank you again.

L L & S
05-14-2009, 09:06 PM
I'm new to your blogs on this matter, and am intrigued by the candor and compassion you have about this case, and this family.
I'm the one who interviewed Vanessa, and the host of NC Wanted. Let me say I've never interviewed a more courageous person, who had so much to fear. She clearly doesn't want anyone else to suffer, as she has, and more importantly, as Janet has. Vanessa was very nervous about the interview itself, but firmly committed to doing it for all the right reasons. Her parents were pillars of strength for her to lean on. And had they not been there, she wouldn't have done the interview.
This case has generated a lot of interest in our area. Posts like this show just how much. We will continue to follow this case until there's an arrest and conviction, no matter who walks into the courtroom in shackles.


Welcome and thank you to NCWanted for keeping Janet's Murder in the spotlight. There will be justice for Janet thanks to people like you and places like WS.

Did you hear that Rave? No one is giving up. This case isn't going to die down and go away. How many times have you looked over your shoulder today?

waltzingmatilda
05-15-2009, 10:33 AM
Way to go Vanessa! My prayers are with you and your family during this time.

Raven reminds me of my ex hubby in so many ways it literally makes me sick to my stomach. I was lucky to get out although it took 4 looong years to finalize the divorce. I wrote in my journal during that time that "he was going to kill me." I wanted to leave a trail behind if I turned up dead. It's not always easy to get out but you can do it! I sacrificed everything...home, car all, worldly goods... except my children and 3 little dogs. It was hard and we lived like paupers for awhile but it was worth it because as the kids got older, his rage became aimed at them. Stay strong and stay safe. Hold your head high. I'm praying for you.

thefragile7393
05-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Wow. I knew it, I knew she was being manipulated by him...I stated so even here. I like to hope that maybe possibly that something someone said here may have helped her realize what a despicable person he is. Regardless, I'm glad her and her daughter are both out out out!

RainbowsAndGumdrops
05-15-2009, 02:42 PM
I hope Vanessa's voice chimes loud and clear across all the Nation!!! I don't want anyone to ever be able to Google Raven's name without hearing Janet's story, without hearing Vanessa's story, and without seeing all that Raven has done!

It is true that many of us gave Vanessa a hard time, but my intent was to warn her. I hope that she can be that voice that can warn others. That other women may listen to. My hope is that Vanessa can find peace in her life and that she can help Janets family have peace by helping bring Justice to Janet!

LTUlegal
05-15-2009, 04:09 PM
I really worry for Vanessa and her family, now more than ever.

waltzingmatilda
05-15-2009, 05:16 PM
I really worry for Vanessa and her family, now more than ever.

Me too! But ya know, I think Vanessa is surrounded by Angels. It took great courage for her to speak out. And thank goodness she sought out her parents for support. Speaking from my experience, my mom didn't know for a long time. It's one of those things a mastermanipulator knows how to do. I was alienated from my family.....my friends. It was lonely. I wondered, "How did I end up here?" Sociopaths crush the psyche of their victims. It was only after I 'grew a pair' and started squawking.....calls to 911, domestic violence center, talking to family and neighbors who witnessed the LE at my home, etc. that he backed off. I think it could have helped save my life because he knew that others knew what was going on and his charming facade was crumbling. Once I gained courage of conviction to leave ...and....
left a trail of evidence of the abuse, there was no turning back. He was a well respected broadcaster here in NC and oh did he know how to play others!
I remember my daughter telling me once, "You know Mom, Dad is really nice to you in person, but when he speaks of you to others, it is not favorable!"
This was an eye opener!

I pray for Vanessa and her family's safety. I think her speaking out was the right thing to do and a desparate plea for help. Maybe this interview was a good thing! Sociopaths like Raven and my ex don't like having their halos tarnished and others airing their dirty laundry, especially in front of Mummy, Daddy, their adoring public (in their world) and the church. My ex is a preacher's son, BTW! Just thinking and typing......:blowkiss: Praying for you, Vanessa! You seem like a sweet levelheaded young woman!

BirdHunter
05-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Be afraid Raven, very afraid. I hear the rest of Vanessa's interview is still to come!

terminatrixator
05-16-2009, 01:49 PM
NC Wanted airs Saturday nights immediately following the 10p News on FOX 50 and is produced locally in High Definition by FOX 50 (WRAZ-TV).

I am trying to see if I download the Fox 50 player if I can get it live if it works I'll let you know.

If not I am wondering how many days before it gets put online "full-version." It should go through the Fox affiliate stations out in Utah too, because they really need to watch out for Raven. He can't be allowed to scam anymore girls.

I hope people will that know him will stop turning their cheek and ignoring who he is out of self-preservation. Every little bit of information helps.

So many of you in Utah, "Want him in Jail". Do the right thing and start contacting Law Enforcement and explaining his volatile behavior, let them know your fears.

Call Crimestoppers with any little details, it could be done anonymously too.

Call Durham Homicide, CrimeStoppers. For those of you that think there's enough to get him in jail, contact the DA's office.

http://tearsforjanet.com/Business-Card-Janet.jpg

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-17-2009, 09:20 AM
OMG how heartbreaking! Thank God she got out when she did.
I pray something breaks in this case soon....for Kaiden's sake. Not only is Raven continuing to terrorize women, the trama that he is exposing Kaiden to must be stopped.
I would think that after this interview that Child Protective services should be hunting him down. No child should have to witness that kind of abuse and be dragged around by his Father in his quest to collect more women to abuse.
It broke my heart to see how devastated Vanessa was when she relayed what Raven said to Kaiden about Mommy not wanting them anymore. I pray that she knows that none of this is her fault and that the kind of guilt that Raven tried to elicit with that despicable statement is typical controlling behavior. I just can't even imagine how helpless she must feel to love that little boy but realize that she can't control what happens to him. Vanessa, getting yourself & your daughter out of there was absolutely necessary. Had you been able to, I'm sure you would have taken Kaiden too. You've done all that you can for Kaiden by going to the authorities and telling them what you've witnessed. Now we can only hope that someone is working on getting him away from Raven as well.

Jax, from your mouth to God's ears ... let's hope that something can be done for Kaiden before Raven can damage him even further.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-17-2009, 09:23 AM
Hearing her say that he tried to convince her that she was suicidal or that their crumbled marriage was her fault really did it for me.
Are you talking about Vanessa or Janet here?

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-17-2009, 09:28 AM
Terminatrixator, I'm reading your post again and I assume you're talking about Vanessa because you said "hearing her say ..." Is that in the video link that's posted? I watched the video but didn't hear that part, not sure how I missed it. I think that that comment is extremely significant and I'd like to see it in its context.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-17-2009, 09:33 AM
I judged Vanessa for what I knew of Raven, not what I knew of Vanessa. I judged harshly and I am so sorry that I compared her to Karen Bolton. I am also sorry that yet another family has been hurt by him.
Several of us, myself included, are guilty of the same. This is cleary one of those circumstances from which we can learn.

Vanessa's recent decision could very well be the turning point in this case. It could end up being the break that's been needed for so, so long. Perhaps others will follow her example and the pieces will all begin to fall into place.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-17-2009, 09:43 AM
Wow. I knew it, I knew she was being manipulated by him...I stated so even here. I like to hope that maybe possibly that something someone said here may have helped her realize what a despicable person he is.
Unfortunately, it sounds to me as if she's had plenty of first-hand experience to have learned it all on her own. :(

SewingDeb
05-17-2009, 02:22 PM
Terminatrixator, I'm reading your post again and I assume you're talking about Vanessa because you said "hearing her say ..." Is that in the video link that's posted? I watched the video but didn't hear that part, not sure how I missed it. I think that that comment is extremely significant and I'd like to see it in its context.

It's in the NC Wanted article (link: http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/5130124/ )

People Raven considered to be close friends told Vanessa they are scared of him. He would often try to convince Vanessa that she was suicidal, that her behavior was erratic, that everything was her fault, she recalled.

“He could go back and forth within seconds and he would say the most horrible things and then moments later, act as if nothing had happened,” she said.

terminatrixator
05-17-2009, 02:24 PM
Terminatrixator, I'm reading your post again and I assume you're talking about Vanessa because you said "hearing her say ..." Is that in the video link that's posted? I watched the video but didn't hear that part, not sure how I missed it. I think that that comment is extremely significant and I'd like to see it in its context.

JG - there's a full length interview that should be out sometime in the next day or two. I put "hearing her say" as opposed to "read her say". I posted where I found that information below with a link.

I am quite hopefully we can see and hear her say it on the full length interview that aired last night in North Carolina and I hope that will be posted shortly on NC Wanted.

I personally heard that Raven was really putting Vanessa down and telling people that Vanessa was suicidal and severely depressed and he started to warn people about Vanessa. IMO he was setting her up for a suicide and she's so lucky that she got away.

More importantly, I believe it's time that all this information gets out in Utah's News and more importantly, I think it's time this information gets put in the National Spotlight. Fox does run America's Most Wanted, and I think it's time that people start putting some pressure on the District Attorney's Office in North Carolina. It's time for Raven to be put behind bars before he kills someone else.


http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/5130124/

Raven’s “Jekyll and Hyde” personality extended into several aspects of his life – his relationships, his faith, his soccer career, the Ponds said.

People Raven considered to be close friends told Vanessa they are scared of him. He would often try to convince Vanessa that she was suicidal, that her behavior was erratic, that everything was her fault, she recalled.

“He could go back and forth within seconds and he would say the most horrible things and then moments later, act as if nothing had happened,” she said.

And he was controlling. Vanessa said he monitored her computer use, checked her phone, always knew what she was doing and who she was calling.

“It was the same thing that he did to Janet. It was a pattern. I was so scared for Vanessa,” JoDean said.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-18-2009, 02:09 AM
IMO he was setting her up for a suicide and she's so lucky that she got away.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. And when I think back to Raven telling Janet's parents, after 5 hours of questioning at the police station, that Janet had committed suicide even though he obviously knew that she hadn't, it sent shivers down my spine. Vanessa may truly have gotten out just in the nick of time.

NCBanker
05-18-2009, 12:29 PM
First, let me say, "Way to go, Vanessa!" I feel strongly that she'll be the lynchpin that brings this case to a close.

I am somewhat surprised, however, that Vanessa didn't google Raven until the time of her bridal shower?!? In this age of immediately accessible information, I wouldn't seriously date anyone without, at a minimum, googling them (did you ever think 10 years ago we'd use the term "googling"?) Perhaps if she had done a search way before they got engaged, she could have more easily backed away from a caustic situation.

Raven was long overdue to be excommunicated from the Church. Had Raven remained in NC, he would have already been due to the embezzling incident; however, he managed to bounce around various areas, as people sometimes do and managed to evade a Church Court until he finally settled down with Vanessa. I'm sure he was ex'ed for a host of reasons and not just for living out of wedlock with Vanessa.

terminatrixator
05-18-2009, 02:48 PM
NC re: Church Court

How does one go about finding the truth if there was indeed "a Church Court" and if indeed Raven was "excommunicated."?

I have spoken with many people regarding whether or not a member of the church got counsel from or confessed to an elder or Bishop of the church, and I was informed that if a member informed them about committing a crime, any crime, including but not limited to, a heinous crime, such as brutally stabbing your wife, they would deal with the church aspect of it, but it is their duty to report such crime to Law Enforcement and would in turn attempt to make the person turn themselves in. I was further informed on several occasions by LDS Members that have inquired regarding this very subject and again, the were told in no uncertain terms that it would be a duty an obligation to inform Law Enforcement.

For some reason, I can't help believe the "excommunication" story is just a story that perhaps Raven told Vanessa to get her under his thumb, a way of making her feel guilty that because of her he has become "tainted" in some way.

I further believe and am of the opinion that he really did play her as though he was pure and innocent and that she was corrupting him. Also, I thoroughly believe Raven may have actually been a sociopath most of his life.

For that reason, I am very hesitant to believe the excommunication story at all, but if it's true, I would like to know what ward and when this happened and what were the reasons behind the excommunication.

If we go back and look at the Interview Raven goes into great detail on how hard it was to be good enough to be allowed to marry in the Temple in Washington, DC. Also, he seemed to bring up religion so often in that interview, which was conducted two months before meeting Vanessa Pond. He talks about his faith and even insinuates that Janet was the one thinking their faith was an issue between them, as though Raven was the one into his faith and Janet was perhaps not really wanting the LDS religion in their lives.

In the interviews he contradicts himself on several occasions when it comes to his faith.

Again, at one point in the marriage between him and Janet, he had an affair on Janet and he moved out of the marriage home and he LIVED with another woman, so that definitely would not be the sole reason for excommunication.

I would really like to know if there is a way we can find out if Raven was indeed excommunicated and if so, what for.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-19-2009, 08:09 AM
I am somewhat surprised, however, that Vanessa didn't google Raven until the time of her bridal shower?!? In this age of immediately accessible information, I wouldn't seriously date anyone without, at a minimum, googling them (did you ever think 10 years ago we'd use the term "googling"?) Perhaps if she had done a search way before they got engaged, she could have more easily backed away from a caustic situation.
I have two thoughts on this. The first is about the act of "googling". Up until Janet's case, it probably would never have occured to me to Google anyone. I don't know how much has changed in the general population over the past four years regarding this type of thing but perhaps people here are more likely to Google because of what we know about Internet resources due to our participation on Web sites such as this one. I'm not surprised that she didn't Google Raven sooner because I don't think that it occurs to certain people.

My second thought is that maybe things unfolded with Vanessa the way that they did because Vanessa was "meant" to happen. Had Raven not married & lived with Vanessa, her story would not be available now. The wonderful news is that she got out safely. But in the process of being involved with Raven, she gained invaluable information about the real Raven that she was able to courageously bring to LE. Time has yet to tell if Vanessa's story might finally tip this case towards an arrest.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-19-2009, 09:02 AM
All of my fellow posters, please note my name change. It's still me, JG, but since another Jersey Girl showed up, I had to ask for the change to avoid continued confusion. Just want to make sure there's no confusion when reading my recent posts here.

thefragile7393
05-19-2009, 12:46 PM
If he wasn't active in the church at that point, would he have been ex-communicated? If he was active, then there's a good chance that he was. If he wasn't, then there, IMO, is where it gets murky as to whether he truely was or wasn't. I too would like to know what the case was.

terminatrixator
05-19-2009, 07:34 PM
Jersey, it still grates on my nerves every single time I hear him talk about the polygraph. He says something like You don't need a polygraph from me, you may think you do, but you don't need one from me.

How anyone can look at him make that statement and not see the words "I did it" flash across his forehead amazes me.

I believe you are right and things do happen for a reason. I learned a valuable lesson in the short time they were married. I judged based on what I knew of Raven, I can see him for who he is, but it really makes me see how hard it is for people to NOT see the sociopath or the monster he is.

He really is quite the subperb con man.

Drew Peterson is completely icky, but a good sociopath, psychopath looks just like your neighbor and they are proficient at not getting caught. That's why it takes so long to get these guys behind bars.

I still see issues in North Carolina politically though, the former Governor Mike Easley is under investigation as well as the Attorney General, Roy Cooper. With Tracy Cline still trying to take care of backlog and dealing with drama in the DA's office, after having such a close relationship with Nifong, who knows. Is Durham ready for a CE case and does Tracy have enough experience to handle a case such as this and come out victorious when she's up for re-election in less than two years?

No matter what though it's nice to know people aren't giving up hope for Justice for Janet and her unborn child.

NCBanker
05-20-2009, 09:09 AM
I typed out this long response yesterday and then my pc crashed! I was so mad I couldn't bring myself to retype that long response. Perhaps that was meant to be.

Regarding excommunication, one doesn't have to be an active member to be ex'ed. If certain information comes to light, i.e. through the news, or from another individual, a court can be held. In fact, you can try someone in absentia if they fail to respond or show up.

Unless you're a Church leader, there's really no way to know if someone has been ex'ed. It's not public information. The record actually does disclose why the individual was ex'ed, so if anyone were fortunate enough to have access to it, we'd know specifics...

I agree that while we're more sleuth minded on this site, I actually do know people who have no experience with this (more specifically, fathers of daughters who have just gotten engaged) who conduct background checks on the potential groom. One such friend did indepth background searches on two separate guys and kept his daugter from marrying both. She finally found a good guy, #3, and they're quite happily married.

I've known of instances where people actually asked their Bishop to phone a potential spouse's previous Bishop (had they moved from another area) to inquire about their background. One such individual found that his future wife had been married 3 times prior to him (which she hadn't disclosed) and in actuality was a gold digger just looking for another victim to extract money from.

Whether Raven had married Vanessa or not, the truth will ultimately be revealed, and he'll answer for what he's done. I'm grateful that Vanessa wasn't harmed, but I don't know if I believe it was meant to be - her marrying him (so the truth could come out). The Lord allows us to make mistakes, especially when we don't earnestly seek His guidance and do our due dilligence.

thefragile7393
05-20-2009, 02:09 PM
Thank you for your post NCBanker, and especially for clarifying the ex-communication cloudiness...that's very valuable information

NCBanker
05-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Thank you for your post NCBanker, and especially for clarifying the ex-communication cloudiness...that's very valuable information

Glad I could be useful somewhere! Please don't hesitate to ask for more clarification if you have more questions about this or anything else relative to the Church.

terminatrixator
05-20-2009, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the information, NCBanker. =)

I have had the long well thought out post disappear into oblivion in the past and end up too frustrated to re-post before. Then again I've also had posts that probably should probably have never been made lol.

What do you believe the Bishop, Church leader or councils stance is on Murder? I've done a lot of research on it, and I've been informed and the information I found is the stance is to go authorities, as it is not like an attorney/client privilege. I would appreciate your thought on the subject.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-21-2009, 09:40 AM
Jersey, it still grates on my nerves every single time I hear him talk about the polygraph. He says something like You don't need a polygraph from me, you may think you do, but you don't need one from me.
I totally agree with you, T. He's clearly stating that they don't need one from him because it won't show any deceit. So then prove it once and for all already.

He's so damned smug, it's nauseating.

BirdHunter
05-21-2009, 10:09 PM
All of my fellow posters, please note my name change. It's still me, JG, but since another Jersey Girl showed up, I had to ask for the change to avoid continued confusion. Just want to make sure there's no confusion when reading my recent posts here.
In my opinion there is only 1 JerseyGirl and you are it!

NCBanker
05-21-2009, 11:12 PM
Thanks for the information, NCBanker. =)

I have had the long well thought out post disappear into oblivion in the past and end up too frustrated to re-post before. Then again I've also had posts that probably should probably have never been made lol.

What do you believe the Bishop, Church leader or councils stance is on Murder? I've done a lot of research on it, and I've been informed and the information I found is the stance is to go authorities, as it is not like an attorney/client privilege. I would appreciate your thought on the subject.

This was one of the thoughts I had originally typed out, that I forgot to include in my repost! ANY crime against mankind, i.e. rape, incest, child abuse, murder, etc. is treated with the utmost care, and Church leaders are required to report such crimes to law enforcement. In fact, the Church has a special 800 number for Bishops to call when they encounter such crimes. The Church handles these issues with the most extreme concern and immediate action.

Raven wasn't excommunicated for murder. He'd be behind bars right now if that were the case.

terminatrixator
05-22-2009, 11:58 AM
This was one of the thoughts I had originally typed out, that I forgot to include in my repost! ANY crime against mankind, i.e. rape, incest, child abuse, murder, etc. is treated with the utmost care, and Church leaders are required to report such crimes to law enforcement. In fact, the Church has a special 800 number for Bishops to call when they encounter such crimes. The Church handles these issues with the most extreme concern and immediate action.

Raven wasn't excommunicated for murder. He'd be behind bars right now if that were the case.

That's the conclusion I had been given over and over again. Thank you so much this was an important question answered for many of us!

lauriej
06-05-2009, 03:45 AM
In my opinion there is only 1 JerseyGirl and you are it!

..i 2nd that------i'd know "your style" anytime jersey.........

..additionally-------having not been on WS for a bit------WOW!

..i have to read it all , i'm thrilled, shocked, excited!

..so very proud of vanessa......!

OriginalJerseyGirl
06-08-2009, 07:41 PM
In my opinion there is only 1 JerseyGirl and you are it!
Thanks BH & Lauriej. I'm not used to this OriginalJerseyGirl business at all but what can you do? I hope that the new name grows on me over time!

On another note, I came across Vanessa's poem again earlier today and it reminded me all over again of how much she must have been through. :( She's been through so much more than most of us will ever have to go through. Poor girl. She's so much stronger than I gave her credit for.

terminatrixator
06-17-2009, 03:13 PM
JG you are definitely an original and truly Janet's forum is a much better place with you in it.

I made a post last night and it got deleted and I had a lot of exact quotes and I failed epically when I x'd out Firefox accidentally, and lost the post. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to recreate it, so I'll put the major points below and will come back when the rest returns to me.

terminatrixator
06-17-2009, 03:26 PM
The two paragraphs below keep coming back to me.

Vanessa: People Raven considered to be close friends told Vanessa they are scared of him. He would often try to convince Vanessa that she was suicidal, that her behavior was erratic, that everything was her fault, she recalled.

And he was controlling. Vanessa said he monitored her computer use, checked her phone, always knew what she was doing and who she was calling.I definitely think these have to be a wake up call to all women out there. These NEED to be a wake up call to those that are now in Raven’s life, men and women alike. There are those that know Raven well that read here and yeah I know he’s done and said everything he can to put the failed relationship squarely on V’s shoulders, but look back at how many FAILED relationships he’s had in his life. Look at the failed relationships since he showed back up in Utah immediately following Janet’s murder! How many women have been in and out of his life? How many of these women has he used? How many of them has he had a different personality with and then the real Raven shows up? He has dated so many young girls, women his age and even older women, I can’t even begin to count anymore. Most have been to get something from them he needed, whether it was money, stability, a built-in babysitter, hand-outs, or to make him look like he’s normal. He’s not. He has had several relationships while married to Janet. Below is a statement about how many relationships he had PRIOR to Janet (ah huh he met Janet at 18!)

Raven that’s a huge thing for someone to sit there and, and I know because I’ve you know, dated lot’s of people and it’s , it’s, I don’t think anyone’s listened to me the way that Janet listens to me and it

He not only has problems with relationships with women, but with men and guy fiends. Even his guy friends eventually have to walk away from him. He states himself he has to reinvent himself so much. Go back to "If I were a Bird" and reread it. Why does one have to reinvent themselves so much? Why does he seem to roam group to group. He seriously has a quick turnover when it comes to friendships and relationships? Why is that? Do people start realizing he is narcissistic, a user, demanding, a fraud, a conniver, a thief and IMO a MURDERER!


I find it amusing that in his NC Wanted video he talks about Janet and brings up Trust. One of the most untrustworthy men I know.

Here’s the transcribed part and Raven’s exact words (bear in mind he states this is what he thought about her and why he liked Janet when he was only 18 years old )

Raven “whenever you, you meet someone who, I don’t know, you don’t know if you can trust them type of thing well with Janet there was an immediate trust. Like I knew that she was sincere when she said she was interested in me or she wanted to go out and I, and I felt like you know, I, I, I could just trust everything in her I could tell her anything and I wasn’t afraid that she was go you know, tellin’ the whole world about you know, me. And so that was, that was a big big thing was trust.”HE HAS HAD RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS HIS WHOLE LIFE.

How many 18 years old have so much to worry about when it comes to trust? Is this a complaint because of the publicity here on WS or is it the fact that he got into a lot of issues before the age of 18. I really find that a guy at the age of 18 that has that many issues and worry about trust is someone that shouldn’t be trusted.

I have heard the NC Wanted Video with Vanessa Pond has more to come and I’m surprised it’s taking so long to come out and I’m really interested in seeing the rest of it. I am really hoping she divorces him soon, and she can move on with her and her daughter's life.

In the meantime, I hear the Pness is enjoying all his new tattoos, and he’s hanging out at bars and he’s got girls and women he's dating and he’s enjoying the night life. He’s back at home living with Mommy and Jim Bolton, which is probably for the best for Kaiden.

I can’t believe we are over 4 years right now. What is the DA’s office in NC doing? They need to read everything here; I really would love to spend 20 minutes with them to find out why they haven’t proceeded yet with this case. I’m not a lawyer, but really feel I can make a compelling case in front of a jury.

In the meantime to you Rave, if you want to hook up and perhaps fly out to Durham, NC with me, I’ll meet you; I’ll pay your way and you can take a polygraph and then try to convince me that you are so misunderstood and tell me how wrong I am about you, as long as you don't mind that I won't be able to keep a straight face. I’m up for it. I’m not wrong about you buddy, and your friends know I’m not wrong, and your family knows I’m not wrong.

I really do not believe the next girl is going to get away safely. Raven is the Person of Interest in the Murder of Janet Marie It's sad, so many past friends, relationships out there and nobody is going to feel safe or truly free from fear until he's locked away where he belongs. :behindbar

SeekingJana
08-24-2009, 01:55 AM
Dear Vanessa Pond,
It took courage and strength of character to speak out against such a manipulative and deadly deceitful person as Raven Samuel Peters Abaroa.

I am so sorry that you had to find out what Raven really is like by living with him and seeing his hurtful demeanor and his physical threats against you and possibly your daughter.
That part of your life is over now. Close the door on it, having learned lessons from it, and hopefully from the post on your guestbook which said " Google him".. Those of us who tried very hard to get a message to you did so in the hopes that you would see what we know before it was too late. " Too late" didin't come, dear lady. You are alive and your daughter is alive, and there are no babies in Raven's way. You did the right things, even when the choices must have seemed heartbreaking.

I hope you and he have severed all ties, and that he doesn't hold any grudges against you. If you think he does, please go to your family, then to your church Bishop, or the president of your Relief Society and see what can be done about relocating you and your child to another part of the country for the sake of your life and your child's. I know there are all kinds of assistance available to members to live with a family far away from the trouble. Do what you need to do to stay safe and for your daughter to stay safe and happy. Janet had everything she thought she needed for a happy future. She was denied that chance, you cannot be, because you saw the truth before he killed you. Just don't ever give him a foot hold in your door again. He seems like a vengeful person, and I suspect he is backed up in that by his family members. I know you were close to them. I hope you have been able to sever all ties without extreme anger or resentment on their sides.

I hope life brings you many, many joys in the form of the family you want to have someday with the man of your heart. I hope that God lives in your heart and that you turn to Him for strength when all of this weighs heavily on you.

When things, ANYTHING in life, get tough, remember this- YOU survived Raven. No matter what might come in the way of a temporary setback like we all have in life, just think " I survived Raven, so I can survive ANYTHING". I know this is true.

God bless you and keep you safe always, Vanessa. One day, you WILL look back on this with only relief, not pain. Time heals the wounds.. You trusted a man who has the ability to go out of his way to separate a woman from her family, to charm her with superficial things, and false promises. He is not normal, so how could you judge what he offered you against anything else you had known previously? You are not to blame for one thing that happened.
Thank you for Googling him. Some of us tried very hard to get messages to you through your online bridal registry and so forth because we were so worried about you and your life, and your daughter's life, and that of any children you and the Bird might have borne together. I know it was not exactly a classy move, but I don't regret what I did because I did it only for you.

You matter to us, Vanessa, and I hope so much that one day you will post with us, that you will see that we want justice and we want Raven to pay for what he has done with all our hearts. Just like you probably do too.

Since we believe his life has taken turns for the worse, not the better after Janet's murder, it would be very enlightening to know the day to day things he did.. Whether you believed he was a happy soul, or somewhat bothered at all. I have always thought that the combination of the money embezzling combined with Janet's new pregnancy was what sent Raven into the depths of murder. Did he ever speak of their dead baby which was killed with Janet? Did he ever talk to you about future children?
Anything which you can share with us, even if you call yourself " Kate Spade" will make a difference in our vast break in knowledge of Raven after the last online videos he smirked and lied through. The knife video, the photos with his SUV, his motorcycles, his toys.. And the soccer lies. So many boastful lies, when Janet was always the soccer star in the family. His theft of her successes in college by his lies of his own talents in soccer were emotional ploys at her expense.

Did he try to take part of your identity for himself too, like he did Janet's soccer accolades? I've often wondered how quickly he starts taking the emotional life away from someone who loves him.

I wish you a very happy life, now and in the future you plan and carry out for yourself and your daughter. Like I said, nothing worse than Raven can ever happen to you. Remember this, and take comfort in it. God protected your and your daughter's lives. And you chose to Google. :)
I hope so much you are strong enough to read here.. We all care about you.

Thank you,
:blowkiss:
Maria

SeekingJana
08-24-2009, 02:30 AM
We know that certain calendar dates seem to be especially important to The Bird-- Remember his " Franklin Covey" talk he had about organizing his life, his day planner type of posting he did on his blog with sort of a timeline effect to them in the weeks and days before Janet was murdered??

It just now hit me that Sept. 6th, his wedding anniversary to Vanessa, is rapidly approaching.
I worry a lot about Vanessa Pond.

I hope Vanessa stays close to her ex- policeman father, and her caring mother. They both seemed like very nice people in the video, and they seemed to understand how bad Raven is. I hope that Vanessa gets a quick and relatively painless divorce from him.

Note to Vanessa Pond-- If you haven't already gotten a divorce from Raven-- PLEASE do not ask Raven for a thing in the divorce. Not a vehichle most of all, and not even a penny. He will steal for money, and he will kill if you seem " inconvenient" to him.
Please don't take even the wedding gifts if he wants them. There is NOTHING he has or ever will have that could matter in the long run at all. Cars, trucks, SUVs, motorcycles, those are his big status symbols. He covets his vehicles. Don't try to take one from him, please.

Stay safe, Vanessa, and get the best attorney you can to get a divorce. No fault divorce, all ties severed forever.
Again, we care about you here. You came across in the video as a beautiful lady, strong, articulate. You seem like someone who was hurt. I understand that there is a thin line between hurt and anger. Keep on keeping on, but choose your battles wisely. One cannot win a thing against a thieving, practiced con man and psychopath like Raven. Give up any " thing" he might covet, and remember that you can always replace the thing with another, better thing later on.

We have seen MANY women who tried to get what they thought they were owed in child support or a divorce settlement end up dead.
A narcissistic psychopath like Raven has NO ability to think about you as a PERSON. You and everyone else are just interacting with him on his level as he sees it.. People move in his life, and out of his life.. He uses and he discards and he moves on. He will always do this. His personality was formed when he was a very young child and it cannot be changed now.

Don't fight him over any material possession or money. MONEY is his Hot Button.
We know quite a lot about his early childhood thanks to what he wrote himself about poverty and extreme deprivation, and his own warped way of looking at it. He might have been lying about most of it, but the important thing is that this is what he believed to be true. HIS truth. He remembered how much was spent on him for new clothes and how much hand me down clothes he got for one specific school year when he was quite young. He remembers things which a normal adult would not remember about their childhood. And ALL of it had to do with neglect, as he perceived it, from his mother, and most had to do with money and material things.

As you have probably read, if a boy doesn't respect and love his mother, then when he is a man, he will not love and respect women who are his peer group.
When I was LDS, I had a female LDS attorney. It worked very well for me. She was a strong advocate of " getting out", too, just like I am talking to you about you getting totally away from Raven forever.

**If the divorce is already final and this was somehow not posted here, or I overlooked it, forgive me.. Maybe the next woman who Googles " Raven Abaroa" will find something helpful, too. ***

My prayers and best wishes,
:blowkiss:
Maria