Canada-Victoria Stafford, 8, Woodstock, Ontario; thread #14

[Salem]

Please continue here. I will add links for previous threads.

Facts & Links Only Thread (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83738&highlight=Canada-Victoria)

Thread 12

Thread 11

Thread 10 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84130&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 9 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84030&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83955&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 7 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83879&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83778&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83674&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83596&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83483&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83332&highlight=Canada-Victoria)
Thread 1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82741&highlight=Canada-Victoria)

I think thats all!

Salem

I learned something NEW today - please let me know if there is trouble with the links or if they go the wrong place :)

[JBean]

stay on topic please. stay away from the rumors.

[Doodlelover]

Brought this over from the other thread. This is a quote from Antiquegirl


" QUOTE "I agree with this, but wanted to point out something about the word "they".

I belong to a Facebook group having to do with grammar pedantry. The use of the plural "they" when referring to a single person of unknown gender has been the subject of many discussions. It has become common and grammatically acceptable (in some circles) to accept the plural because some consider "he or she" to be too awkward. Many people use "they" these days when they just don't know which sex they're talking about.

I think if TM had said "he" or "she", we would have immediately jumped on that (How does she know it's a "he"?, etc.) Most people just can't be bothered saying "he or she". I believe that's all TM was doing and that it might be totally insignificant. END QUOTE





I agree with you about the use of "they". People do use it when unsure of gender but TM knew the gender of the abductor. There was never any reason to think it was anything other than "her"

[HOOKEDNAN]

Just wondering what happened to Thread 13? TY:)

[CentralAlberta]

Where is thread 13?

[Reannan]

Maybe it is like the 13th floor in an expensive hotel - missing and glad it's gone??? Don't know....as usual....

[CentralAlberta]

Sorry Hooked, we were both thinking the same thing.

[Reannan]

The last post on thread 12 was from around 7:00 this afternoon....you guys move fast!!! Maybe something was said that was ?????? I don't know???? Clue me in!!!! I hope it wasn't me!

[elepher50]

The thread is probably off line for a few minutes for dusting and cleaning then it will be back online all locked up.

[FaerieB]

The last post on thread 12 was from around 7:00 this afternoon....you guys move fast!!! Maybe something was said that was ?????? I don't know???? Clue me in!!!! I hope it wasn't me!

There were far too many unsubstantiated rumours in it, and it was closed by our wonderful Mod Squad. As long as we stick to discussing things that are relevant, and leave the rumours to the rumours thread we'll be fine. :)

[morty123]

any news in the past couple hours??? updates anything had to take my son to hospital

[Infojunkie]

About the forensics van that was at the Stafford home. Here (http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530511.html)

And Tara lashes out at police. Here (http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html)

[cdnDAD]

This may have been mentioned in thread 13 b4 the lock but I just watched a ctv news clip online and its rather interesting... 3 things i picked out from the clip which I'd consider new info.

1. They have actual video showing TLM riding with LE in the chopper looking for Tori

2. TLM has pulled her hair from the cornrows and its now straight again.

3. LE has removed the dumpster from the location

[kaas]

any news in the past couple hours??? updates anything had to take my son to hospital


Oh my, hope your son is okay!

[morty123]

thanks InfoJunkie

[morty123]

He is fine thanks

[stellarkix]

Don't know if this was posted...


http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/484371


OPP investigators are also visiting Guelph car washes. There is reportedly a police belief that the vehicle used to transport Stafford's body was cleaned at one of these businesses in an attempt to remove evidence in the case.

[Turbododger]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html

“My daughter’s not coming home. I want the killers dead,” little Victoria (Tori) Stafford’s mother said in an exclusive interview with The London Free Press.

McDonald also had harsh words for police, who she said targeted her and her boyfriend for 42 days, even while having an accused abductor in custody almost the entire time.

“The three times I was interviewed by police, they said, we know it’s you,” McDonald said.

[margaret_diane]

News article from a major paper regarding police presence / forensics at TM's house... TM arrived at her home at 6:00pm with police officers, and left about an hour later in the back seat of a car with JG - detectives in front of the car. Forensics emerged from her home with a large black case.....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-woman-helps-police-search-for-toris-body/article1147720/

[Turbododger]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html

McClintic was taken into custody April 12 on unrelated matters, several sources said.

McDonald confirmed she wanted to donate a couch to Carol the moment she entered the dingy apartment whose sole livingroom furniture, she said, seemed to be a futon.

She adamantly denied buying drugs off Carol or Terri-Lynne.

[Reannan]

He is fine thanks

Glad to hear your son is fine!!! And Glad you are part of WS's!!! Welcome!

[girlfriday]

Where is thread 13?

wondering too... and 12 is not locked yet ... confusing

[girlfriday]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html

McClintic was taken into custody April 12 on unrelated matters, several sources said.

McDonald confirmed she wanted to donate a couch to Carol the moment she entered the dingy apartment whose sole livingroom furniture, she said, seemed to be a futon.

She adamantly denied buying drugs off Carol or Terri-Lynne.
.”

I wonder what is meant by "saw". Coloured by me.

[stellarkix]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530511.html



WOODSTOCK – Police asked Victoria (Tori) Stafford's mom for a tooth the little girl had lost so they could create a DNA profile, the Free Press has learned.

An unmarked Oxford Community Police Services vehicle and forensics van were on scene at Tara McDonald’s Frances Street home tonight.

McDonald's boyfriend, James Goris, said police asked the couple to help them find some items that would help create a DNA profile as they search for the body of Victoria 'Tori' Stafford.

"When Tori lost a tooth months ago, she wanted us to save it. We put it into a container. Police wanted the container," Goris said, reached a few hours later.

Police also asked for any shoes of Tori, or recent items that might provide DNA, Goris said, calling the task a "grim" one.

[Paintr]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome

One friend, who declined to be named, said the constant moving made childhood difficult for the young McClintic.

"She was moved around quite a bit, and that really messed with her. Everywhere, everyone screwed her over. The system really failed her," said a 17 year-old friend, who declined to be named.

"To have a life like that, you'll never be normal, never be the little girl she was supposed to be," the friend told The Globe and Mail.

[Reannan]

This case is so sad. I love Tori. I have a daughter that is named the same name and that looks like her. Not that the similarity should matter, but my heart breaks! I don't think I will ever forget this case, or get over it. It will haunt me forever. Please, let justice be served!!!!

[Paintr]

From the same article posted above...TLM's Facebook quiz...

On her Facebook profile, McClintic appears to show a fascination for violence -- including a stated desire to join the infamous Crips gang.

The results of several personal quizzes posted on the profile suggest similar leanings:

"What drug are you?" (the answer was methamphetamine)
"How evil are you" (pretty much evil)
"What kind of guy would you fall for?" (the bad boy)
"What crime are you?" (murder)

:eek:

[antiquegirl]

I have CP24 on and have all afternoon and evening. I can't believe how behind they are in the "news". This group is hours ahead of them. Kudos to us!

[antiquegirl]

From the same article posted above...TLM's Facebook quiz...

On her Facebook profile, McClintic appears to show a fascination for violence -- including a stated desire to join the infamous Crips gang.

The results of several personal quizzes posted on the profile suggest similar leanings:

"What drug are you?" (the answer was methamphetamine)
"How evil are you" (pretty much evil)
"What kind of guy would you fall for?" (the bad boy)
"What crime are you?" (murder)

:eek:

I saw that! Weird and prophetic, no? :eek:

[girlfriday]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome

One friend, who declined to be named, said the constant moving made childhood difficult for the young McClintic.

"She was moved around quite a bit, and that really messed with her. Everywhere, everyone screwed her over. The system really failed her," said a 17 year-old friend, who declined to be named.

"To have a life like that, you'll never be normal, never be the little girl she was supposed to be," the friend told The Globe and Mail.

Oh, my heart bleeds for her :furious: or do I mean my blood boils. My family (single mom) moved 17 times before I left home at age 18. Life is what you make it.

[Paintr]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090520/tori_timeline_090520/20090520/?hub=TorontoNewHome

"From mystery to tragedy: The Tori Stafford timeline"

This might come in handy sometime.

[Turbododger]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome

"Police allege that McClintic helped Rafferty abduct Tori, and then helped him escape the area. Later, police allege Rafferty killed the girl on his own"

This goes against a very short time frame that has been reported. IF this is true, it is truly horrifying.

[Reannan]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...TorontoNewHome (http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome)

"One friend, who declined to be named, said the constant moving made childhood difficult for the young McClintic."

Give me a big freaking break.....before I freaking break someone's neck!!! Good grief! Go live in a country where babies are raped and then..... you can cry me a handfull of tears, but you will NEVER, EVER, in a MILLION years explain to me why you have the freaking RIGHT to extrapolate any of your misery on a totally innocent and beautiful soul like Tori!!! I am angry. :furious:

[antiquegirl]

From the same article posted above...TLM's Facebook quiz...

On her Facebook profile, McClintic ...

(Snipped for relevance by me)

Sorry, but it would now take me hours to get back to the original comment that I wanted to quote.

Re Carol McClintic's Facebook profile. Thank you to the person who showed me the way to find it. Did anyone notice that she spelled her own name wrong? It's spelled "Mclintic". How stoned do you have to be to spell your own name wrong? Also noted how much healthier and plumper she looked in her picture.

Has anyone seen her soundbite on TV tonight? It really freaked me out. She's really in rough shape. How sad what drugs will do to you!

MOO

[Paintr]

I saw that! Weird and prophetic, no? :eek:


I realize that people ham it up on this type of quiz, BUT even if I were joking these answers would not spring to mind. :crazy:

[Reannan]

(Snipped for relevance by me)
Re Carol McClintic's Facebook profile. Thank you to the person who showed me the way to find it. Did anyone notice that she spelled her own name wrong? It's spelled "Mclintic". How stoned do you have to be to spell your own name wrong? Also noted how much healthier and plumper she looked in her picture.

Has anyone seen her soundbite on TV tonight? It really freaked me out. She's really in rough shape. How sad what drugs will do to you!

MOO

I don't know, antiquegirl.....if I were living in the Hell that the Stafford family are in, I would eat myself silly and look like an Ooompaloompahhh from Willie Wonka and The Chocolate Factory!!! (and yes.....I know I spelled it wrong, but I don't know how to spell it correctly!!!)!

[Paintr]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-woman-helps-police-search-for-toris-body/article1147720/

Jeanine LeRoy, Ms. McClintic's lawyer, said her client is assisting police as much as she can.

“She is co-operating fully with the police in an effort to do everything she can to help them find Tori and to bring her home to the family,” Ms. Leroy said. “I spent just over an hour with her this morning, and she was very, very emotional.”

Isn't it just too bad that TLM is upset? And her alleged partner in crime cried in court. Somehow I just can't seem to muster much sympathy for either of them. :rolleyes:

[Turbododger]

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/637536

LeRoy said her client has not been offered any concessions by authorities in exchange for her cooperation.

"I can tell you that's not in her mind right now," said LeRoy. "And there have been no conversations between myself and the Crown. It's way too early in the process."

[wubblewobble]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...TorontoNewHome (http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome)

"One friend, who declined to be named, said the constant moving made childhood difficult for the young McClintic."

Give me a big freaking break.....before I freaking break someone's neck!!! Good grief! Go live in a country where babies are raped and then..... you can cry me a handfull of tears, but you will NEVER, EVER, in a MILLION years explain to me why you have the freaking RIGHT to extrapolate any of your misery on a totally innocent and beautiful soul like Tori!!! I am angry. :furious: My husband moved 9 times before he went to live with his grandmother when he was 10. He had a very ****ty childhood, crazy mother, multiple step-fathers/mommy's 'friends", living in filthy apartments & he turned out to be a great man.
I hate that someone can use having a bad childhood as an excuse to be a rotten adult. If anything my husband's bad childhood helped him to avoid living the life his mother lived.

[mareseatoats]

I don't know, antiquegirl.....if I were living in the Hell that the Stafford family are in, I would eat myself silly and look like an Ooompaloompahhh from Willie Wonka and The Chocolate Factory!!! (and yes.....I know I spelled it wrong, but I don't know how to spell it correctly!!!)!

close enough!

[Reannan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-woman-helps-police-search-for-toris-body/article1147720/

Jeanine LeRoy, Ms. McClintic's lawyer, said her client is assisting police as much as she can.

“She is co-operating fully with the police in an effort to do everything she can to help them find Tori and to bring her home to the family,” Ms. Leroy said. “I spent just over an hour with her this morning, and she was very, very emotional.”

Isn't it just too bad that TLM is upset? And her alleged partner in crime cried in court. Somehow I just can't seem to muster much sympathy for either of them. :rolleyes:

Me either!!!! No emotion until THEY are in trouble.

[antiquegirl]

I realize that people ham it up on this type of quiz, BUT even if I were joking these answers would not spring to mind. :crazy:

For those who are not familiar with Facebook, these quizzes are the latest meme on there. They have many, such as "Which fictional character are you?", "Which philosopher are you?", "What kind of fantasy creature are you?", and so on. I've done a couple myself.

I think it's very telling that she picked these particular quizzes in the first place. Then, the final answers you get are determined by the answers you give to various leading questions (sorry if that's obvious). So, whatever she answered to all those questions affected the final result.

TLM's choices in quizzes and the answers she must have supplied are better than some psychological tests. Very interesting.

[stellarkix]

Please forgive me if these articles have been posted already...


http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1615939


Ontario Provincial Police took Terri-Lynne McClintic -- one of two people charged in the abduction and murder of eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford -- out of jail and into rural Ontario Thursday as their guide in the search for the girl's remains.

"She is directing officers at the scene but does not have a very clear idea of where she is going," said an investigator.

"The landscape has changed since then. Things look different six weeks later."

Her imprecision and confusion led police and news crews on a day-long, meandering tour of farmland near Guelph, Ont., about an hour and a half's drive west of Toronto.

On April 8, the day Tori went missing -- which is also, according to court documents, the day she is thought to have been murdered -- the area had not yet shaken its winter weather.

That day started with snow showers, clouds and a wind chill of -7 C in the area. The foliage was far from the lush green and flowers that were visible Thursday.

[antiquegirl]

I don't know, antiquegirl.....if I were living in the Hell that the Stafford family are in, I would eat myself silly and look like an Ooompaloompahhh from Willie Wonka and The Chocolate Factory!!! (and yes.....I know I spelled it wrong, but I don't know how to spell it correctly!!!)!

Um, are we having a misunderstanding here? Who are you talking about? I was talking about TLM's mother, Carol. She's been in rough shape for a lot longer than since her crazy daughter was arrested. It has even been reported that she was the drug dealer and not TLM. She's a total mess and it has nothing to do with the Stafford family. (And she's not eating - she's skinny as a rail.)

[Gordy123]

I went up there this evening and can confirm that this was the location of the dumpster: 43°39'21.21"N 80°17'31.25"W (enter this location in Google Earth to view).

The dumpster has now been removed by LE. Apparently it was last emptied 3 weeks ago.

This is the location of the laneway leading to the place of interest: 43°38'51.69"N 80°18'28.53"W

This is where the actual search has been taking place: 43°39'0.75"N 80°18'48.14"W (to the left or south west of the big tree) There used to be an old farmhouse here, and it's gone now - or only ruins remain.

I didn't go up the laneway... but I was very surprised there was no police tape blocking access to it. There did not appear to be any LE left in the area for the night... but a visual of the area is difficult to make out across the field.

Police helicopter was still flying overhead not long before sunset.

According to another bystander, earlier today, forensics were being done all along the laneway.. pictures were being taken of numbered markers.

Just for reference... if you follow Wellington 22 (or Eighth Line) a little further south west, this area is called Cox Creek by locals as it comes out at Hwy 6.

[LimeCola]

For those who are not familiar with Facebook, these quizzes are the latest meme on there. They have many, such as "Which fictional character are you?", "Which philosopher are you?", "What kind of fantasy creature are you?", and so on. I've done a couple myself.

I think it's very telling that she picked these particular quizzes in the first place. Then, the final answers you get are determined by the answers you give to various leading questions (sorry if that's obvious). So, whatever she answered to all those questions affected the final result.

TLM's choices in quizzes and the answers she must have supplied are better than some psychological tests. Very interesting.

I have to agree with you antiquegirl, any one of these tests on its own wouldn't say much about a person, but put all of the quizzes TLM took as a whole and you get a picture of a young woman who is focused on violence. I think that a FB page is generally a fairly good representation of a person (if they are actively using it, as TLM appears to have been).

[elepher50]

Michael Rafferty a clean-cut 'romantic' whose infidelity kept sabotaging relationships



http://www.thestar.com/article/637413

My apologies if this has already been posted.

[Turbododger]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/21/stafford-search-police021.html

CBC News learned that children attending schools in the Fergus area were sent home with a note warning their parents to be on the lookout for a dark-coloured vehicle, following the two attempted abductions.

There was a similar car in an enhanced surveillance video released by Ontario Provincial Police several weeks ago

[Reannan]

Um, are we having a misunderstanding here? Who are you talking about? I was talking about TLM's mother, Carol. She's been in rough shape for a lot longer than since her crazy daughter was arrested. It has even been reported that she was the drug dealer and not TLM. She's a total mess and it has nothing to do with the Stafford family. (And she's not eating - she's skinny as a rail.)

Antiquegirl, your postings have been helpful beyond belief! I have a niece who is addicted to meth, and she has destroyed her life....as well as the lives of those close to her. I have a best friend who became addicted and destroyed her marriage, her relationship with her daughter, and her relationship with her mother.....to the point of telling her Mother to "f-off" a year before her Mother's death. Drug addiction is a stupid, selfish, self-absorant act. I don't respect it and I hate it for what it has done to my family and friends. Drugs are a pathetic excuse for people who wallow in misery that is sometimes real....but often over-blown in the face of what reality in this world really is.

[PepperFritz]

Jeanine LeRoy, Ms. McClintic's lawyer, said her client is assisting police as much as she can.... “I spent just over an hour with her this morning, and she was very, very emotional.”

Where's the "vomit" smilie when you need it?

[PepperFritz]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/21/stafford-search-police021.html

CBC News learned that children attending schools in the Fergus area were sent home with a note warning their parents to be on the lookout for a dark-coloured vehicle, following the two attempted abductions.

There was a similar car in an enhanced surveillance video released by Ontario Provincial Police several weeks ago

!!!!!!!!!!!?????????

[CarrieBean]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/21/stafford-search-police021.html

CBC News learned that children attending schools in the Fergus area were sent home with a note warning their parents to be on the lookout for a dark-coloured vehicle, following the two attempted abductions.

There was a similar car in an enhanced surveillance video released by Ontario Provincial Police several weeks ago

Creepy. It makes me wonder if they were trying to kidnap another girl.

[wen]

Rex Murphy is commenting in this case on CBC now.

[ChaChaCha]

!!!!!!!!!!!?????????

Logically, wasn't TLM in custody since April 12 or so? It wouldn't have been her in the area...

Guelph & Fergus are fairly close together - anyone who grew up in or around Guelph would likely be familiar with Guelph...

So my question is:

Where was the male perp arrested? Was it in Woodstock? Wasn't it reported that TLM aided him in fleeing the area? Which would have been between April 9 and April 12?

Am I figuring this wrong? Surely the Fergus incidents aren't related - I thought that the VOI in Woodstock was more of a sagey kinda green?

Must be bedtime soon!

[margaret_diane]

Creepy. It makes me wonder if they were trying to kidnap another girl.

"they" couldn't have been... because one of the accused had been in police custody since about April 12th or so. Arrested on breach of probation (TLM).

BUT
Thats not to say MR couldn't have gone out trolling.....:eek:

ETA: chachacha ya beat me to it. :D
AND: I read somewhere in the media that TLM helped him abduct the girl, then helped him escape the area (so where did he GO?) and this makes me wonder too -- where has he been SINCE then? we know he was arrested at his mother's home in Woodstock -- so when exactly did he get BACK?

[wen]

Rex Murphy has a fabulous grasp of the English language and can often be entertaining to listen to, for those not familiar he is a Newfoundlander. He has his rant every Thursday during the CBC news and as well he writes an article for the Saturday Globe and Mail.
He brought tears to my eyes tonight. It is definitely worth looking up. I just looked and it is not yet posted but I will keep my eyes out for it.

[ChaChaCha]

"they" couldn't have been... because one of the accused had been in police custody since about April 12th or so. Arrested on breach of probation (TLM).

BUT
Thats not to say MR couldn't have gone out trolling.....:eek:

Hmmm, so TLM was in custody... would she have any idea of what was going on with the search for Tori? Would she have access to TV or radio or visitors (the CrackMama) who could fill her in?

Was the guy gone after the 12th? Did he come back to town? Did he go home? He would have seen the media coverage...including that big biker JJ on TM's front step waiting to pound the crap out of anybody that looked suspicious... did he visit TLM in jail, or stop by CrackMama's house during that time?

When did they go for the drive in the country? Between the 9th and 12th I would imagine...

Whose car did they use? He must have a vehicle if the OPP are looking at car detailing places in the area...

So many, many questions!

So few answers...

[Paintr]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/05/21/9531021.html
\

Family members, including McDonald and Stafford, also spoke openly about having taken lie-detector tests.

The media spotlight also put McDonald’s personal struggles on full display, including her addiction to the narcotic OxyContin, which she said she’s receiving treatment for.

McDonald also denied reports that she and Goris bought the OxyContin painkillers from McClintic’s mother, Carol.

She said she met McClintic’s mother at most three times and McClintic was in the apartment once, but she didn’t talk to her.

(London Free Press)

[cdnDAD]

Hey folks I created a small tribute to Tori tonight, am I allowed to post a link here?

[Paintr]

Hey folks I created a small tribute to Tori tonight, am I allowed to post a link here?

There were lots of tributes to Caylee posted from you tube. If it is not located on an objectionable site it should be fine. I am sure a mod will know.:)

ETA Welcome to WS!

[Lexiintoronto]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-woman-helps-police-search-for-toris-body/article1147720/

Jeanine LeRoy, Ms. McClintic's lawyer, said her client is assisting police as much as she can.

“She is co-operating fully with the police in an effort to do everything she can to help them find Tori and to bring her home to the family,” Ms. Leroy said. “I spent just over an hour with her this morning, and she was very, very emotional.”


Where's the "vomit" smilie when you need it?
Here you go:

:puke:

I think we'll all be needing this smilie whenever TLM's lawyer speaks on her behalf.

[victorian]

Here you go:

:puke:

I think we'll all be needing this smilie whenever TLM's lawyer speaks on her behalf.
Thank you:woohoo:

[cdnDAD]

Well here it goes I was cutting the lawn tonight and all the images I've seen of this little girl were running through my head very sad :( Anyway I decided to put it to music.

Hopes you enjoy and if this is not appropriate i apologize.

YouTube - Tori Stafford

[margaret_diane]

LOL but OMG -- EWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwww at the barfing smiley!! :S

[ChaChaCha]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/05/21/9531021.html
\

Family members, including McDonald and Stafford, also spoke openly about having taken lie-detector tests.

Hmmmm...yes, and TM lied about that too...on several ocsasions...

The media spotlight also put McDonald’s personal struggles on full display, including her addiction to the narcotic OxyContin, which she said she’s receiving treatment for.

Hmmm, yes - she was taking three pills a week the last time she spoke openly about it... and treatment - yes, two years worth of visits to the methadone clinic... betcha can meet a lotta people there... Oh, and yes - she vehemently denied early on having any addiction - only smoked a little pot in highschool - there's open and honest for ya...
McDonald also denied reports that she and Goris bought the OxyContin painkillers from McClintic’s mother, Carol.

Hmmm, I guess in order to "buy" the stuff you have to pay for it...guess that was a problem huh? Also, I quite often send my hubby out to pick up the stuff I need... Oh, and while you are out can you stop by the store...he!
She said she met McClintic’s mother at most three times and McClintic was in the apartment once, but she didn’t talk to her.

Puleeze! Crap! But she could recognize TLM from that grainy photo??? And besides - I would only need to meet that woman once to be running for the door! I wouldn't have to go back twice more to make sure whether I liked her or not... Did she have Tori with her when she met CrackMama about breeding the dogs? Is that why Tori went with TLM - was it to do with breeding the dogs???

(London Free Press)

My bold... I think someone is flinging it around a bit freely... why doesn't she BE QUIET! Who cares about your reputation? Why should she care? Her daughter is GONE! She needs to be quiet now...I understand the anger, I really do, but why is it still about HER??? Where is the mourning and tribute to her daughter? Smackin my head against the wall!!!:waitasec:

[taz_gem]

I have lurked on ws for many years.. Started with Natalee Holloway..
I was heartsick when I heard about the arrests. I hope that Tori's family will get the answers they need sooner rather than later. Although it seems certain that Tori has been murdered...part of me still hopes that she was abandoned somewhere and will be discovered alive....wishful thinking I know.

Tragic. ..TO Tori's parents: rest assured that if any one of us had our lives put under the spotlight as you have, we too would have been exposed for all of our weaknesses and sins. We all have them. None of which justify losing a child as you have. I am so sorry for all that has happened to you these past weeks...I am sorry for all that you will have to deal with in the coming months and years...and mostly I am sorry that you will have to find a way, every day, to put one foot in front of the other and live your life without Tori.

[Lexiintoronto]

Well here it goes I was cutting the lawn tonight and all the images I've seen of this little girl were running through my head very sad :( Anyway I decided to put it to music.

Hopes you enjoy and if this is not appropriate i apologize.

YouTube - Tori Stafford (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYNHeq7jio)
Thank you for creating that and posting it here - it was lovely. I hope that Tori's loved ones see it because I believe it will bring them comfort. I feel better for having seen it.

[Paintr]

Well here it goes I was cutting the lawn tonight and all the images I've seen of this little girl were running through my head very sad :( Anyway I decided to put it to music.

Hopes you enjoy and if this is not appropriate i apologize.

YouTube - Tori Stafford (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYNHeq7jio)


cdnDAD, that was beautiful! You certainly didn't waste your time ...you cut the grass and came up with a great tribute for a lost little girl. Thank you kindly for sharing!

[wen]

Here is the link for TLM's lawyer. I have also posted in the Fact thread.
http://www.jleroylaw.com/

[sillybilly]

Well here it goes I was cutting the lawn tonight and all the images I've seen of this little girl were running through my head very sad :( Anyway I decided to put it to music.

Hopes you enjoy and if this is not appropriate i apologize.

YouTube - Tori Stafford (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYNHeq7jio)

Thanks for that, cdnDAD. I've gritted my teeth through a lot of things, but I guess the finality is setting in and I finally let loose when seeing your tribute to Tori. I know too well the pain of losing children, and Tori is truly etched forever in my heart, all our hearts. Even though Victoria Day falls on a different date each year, for the rest of my life I will remember Victoria Stafford on that date ... and I will blow Tori special angel kisses.

[antiquegirl]

My bold... I think someone is flinging it around a bit freely... why doesn't she BE QUIET! Who cares about your reputation? Why should she care? Her daughter is GONE! She needs to be quiet now...I understand the anger, I really do, but why is it still about HER??? Where is the mourning and tribute to her daughter? Smackin my head against the wall!!!:waitasec:

ITA, chachacha. I thought all the same things and one other thing, as well, but it belongs on the Rumours thread. Not sure how to carry something over there, but I think some may be interested in a new theory. I must do it soon, though, as it's way past my bedtime (again!).

[ThoughtElf]

Well here it goes I was cutting the lawn tonight and all the images I've seen of this little girl were running through my head very sad :( Anyway I decided to put it to music.

Hopes you enjoy and if this is not appropriate i apologize.

YouTube - Tori Stafford (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYNHeq7jio)

Incredibly touching. TY for doing this for Tori.

[S_A_S]

Well here it goes I was cutting the lawn tonight and all the images I've seen of this little girl were running through my head very sad :( Anyway I decided to put it to music.

Hopes you enjoy and if this is not appropriate i apologize.

YouTube - Tori Stafford (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYNHeq7jio)



That was wonderful. Cried my eyes out, until they were dry. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

[stellarkix]

Where did my posts go?


Did I offend somone?? :(


Sorry if I did!!

[girlfriday]

Where did my posts go?


Did I offend somone?? :(


Sorry if I did!!

I thought something wonky was going on with the thread and I remember someone else mentioning not to quote articles but rather paraphrase...maybe?

[stellarkix]

I thought something wonky was going on with the thread and I remember someone else mentioning not to quote articles but rather paraphrase...maybe?

I think it is because I mentioned his place of work....


Sorry!!

[wen]

I think it is because I mentioned his place of work....


Sorry!!

stellarkix, you should repost in the rumour thread. It was good info. Thanks:thumb:

[Amster]

TM's interview....I won't be surprised if she demands the reward money. After all, SHE told LE about TLM.

[butterfly1978]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/21/stafford-search-police021.html

CBC News learned that children attending schools in the Fergus area were sent home with a note warning their parents to be on the lookout for a dark-coloured vehicle, following the two attempted abductions.

There was a similar car in an enhanced surveillance video released by Ontario Provincial Police several weeks ago

okay... who owns this car? wasn't it reported that Terri-Lynn was arrested on April13 a few days after Tori's abduction?

So how can she be in jail and as early as two weeks ago this car was seen near the sight of two almost abductions? Did the guy find someone else to help him ??? Something isn't sitting right here.

[PepperFritz]

Sexual assault of Tori confirmed in new Christie Blatchford column:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

"Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl."

The relationship between TM and TLM is also being down-played:

"But the women weren't friends, merely acquaintances, their connection fleeting, so the crime is considered a random or stranger attack, the allegation that Ms. McClintic was simply on the hunt for an available, vulnerable child to bring to Mr. Rafferty."

She also reveals that LE have a video of the perps in their car:

"...her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city."

[butterfly1978]

Sexual assault of Tori confirmed in new Christie Blatchford column:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

"Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl."

The relationship between TM and TLM is also being down-played:

"But the women weren't friends, merely acquaintances, their connection fleeting, so the crime is considered a random or stranger attack, the allegation that Ms. McClintic was simply on the hunt for an available, vulnerable child to bring to Mr. Rafferty."

She also reveals that LE have a video of the perps in their car:

"...her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city."

The link doesn't work for me :confused:

[Paintr]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/05/22/9532186-sun.html

LONDON, Ont. -- Could her smile have been any sweeter?

With that sunny grin and those blue eyes, Victoria (Tori) Stafford's face is no doubt now known by millions who felt they knew her, even if they didn't.

But then again, they did get to know her, little by little, over the 42-day mystery that's ended gruesomely with murder and abduction charges against two locals.

Bits of her personality have been relayed by family members.

[Storme]

It didn't work for me either at first but I kept trying and it finally did. :waitasec:

[PepperFritz]

The link doesn't work for me :confused:

Works for me. Try going to the G&M home page, and following the link for Blatchford's column under the lead story:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com

[Paintr]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/05/22/9532181-sun.html

I have bad days these days more then (sic) good," Rafferty wrote in an online profile.

"I dwell on the past and wish I could go back and change some things and do it all over again ... maybe just the last five years.

"I am sorry every day and feel the pain of knowing that if I had done something different, then life as I know it would be filled with joy."

[Paintr]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1123343.html

McDonald’s friend Craig Racine, who is a frequent visitor to McDonald’s house, made up a story on one of the days after Tori’s disappearance, but before McClintic’s arrest, that he needed to borrow her laundry facilities.

Shortly after he took a bundle of clothes over police arrived, doing door-to-door canvasses. McClintic hid in the bathroom, Racine said.

He tried to coax her out, saying: "You didn’t take the little girl, did you?" to which McClintic replied: "No."

[Paintr]

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090521/160_cp_McClintic1_090521.jpg


Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, is charged with kidnapping and being an accessory after the fact.

McClintic has been accompanying police as they urgently search for the remains of the young victim.

Reporters spotted McClintic Thursday in an unmarked police vehicle and in an OPP helicopter.

[captaincanada]

My bold... I think someone is flinging it around a bit freely... why doesn't she BE QUIET! Who cares about your reputation? Why should she care? Her daughter is GONE! She needs to be quiet now...I understand the anger, I really do, but why is it still about HER??? Where is the mourning and tribute to her daughter? Smackin my head against the wall!!!:waitasec:

Because she is feeling guilt, ChaChaCha. She wants to be seen in the eyes of the world that she has absolutely no connection to her daughter's death. But the facts are starting to look like her daughter was put in harm's way because of her lifestyle and relationships.

[Beast]

I am so angry I am sick about it. For weeks now we have been following this case, hoping against hope that this would not be the outcome. Yet,

1, Why did police wait so long to list this as an abduction? As soon as the parents said "we don't know that woman in the video" ITS AN ABDUCTION!

2. No Amber Alert. The requirements for that need to change, it might not have helped in this case but next time it could.

3. How many cases of child abduction or murder the last 5 years in the U.S and Canada have there been? MANY

4. How many cases have we heard that the child had GPS and was found, and the criminal/pedophile in custody? NONE

5. Please support me by tuning in and calling my radio broadcast (http://djxtreme.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/victoria-stafford-gps-would-have-saved-her-life/) to share your thoughts and opinions on this subject. We can be proactive.

[elepher50]

Sexual assault of Tori confirmed in new Christie Blatchford column:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

"Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl."

The relationship between TM and TLM is also being down-played:

"But the women weren't friends, merely acquaintances, their connection fleeting, so the crime is considered a random or stranger attack, the allegation that Ms. McClintic was simply on the hunt for an available, vulnerable child to bring to Mr. Rafferty."

She also reveals that LE have a video of the perps in their car:

"...her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city."

Thanks for providing the link PepperFritz .... there are just plain pure Evil people in this world - I have no other words to describe them. This makes me sick - it is evil to the core.

[Paintr]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/638575

It's not clear if McClintic will be personally involved in the search today. The judge's order that allowed her to accompany OPP officers expired at 10 last night.

[critter]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, but I saw on the London A Channel News this morning that the LE requested Tori's baby tooth and a pair of her shoes from Tara late yesterday. I'm assuming that's the reason the forensic team was at her house. I'm new to sleuthing so can someone maybe help me with a question, please? I can understand why the LE would want Tori's baby tooth (DNA), but why her shoes?

[tambini]

A little more insight......

http://thespec.metrolandwest.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/570217

[Mazama]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, but I saw on the London A Channel News this morning that the LE requested Tori's baby tooth and a pair of her shoes from Tara late yesterday. I'm assuming that's the reason the forensic team was at her house. I'm new to sleuthing so can someone maybe help me with a question, please? I can understand why the LE would want Tori's baby tooth (DNA), but why her shoes?

Most likely for tracking dogs so they can get a good scent of her to find her remains.

[CentralAlberta]

:furious::furious:I can't stand this any longer. This chick has been riding around in helicopters getting all the male attention she could EVER possibly desire. No doubt they are being very nice to her, probably stopping for double, doubles. No wait ... it's hot over there, isn't it? So she is probably having Iced Capps:furious: she is just a :liar: basking in all the attention. (Just like someone else we know.) Here's an idea . . . Let's have the male investigators from Grauntaunamo (sp) Bay come and give her some real "iced caps" and see how much she's like that attention? I bet she'd remember where pour little Tori is real fast.:furious:

By the way: I am REAl furious over this. I can't stand it when people degrade females by calling them "chicks", but what did I do to her? Also, I do not agree with torture. But what am I suggesting? I think this case has taken its toll on me.:silenced:

[Paintr]

Sexual assault of Tori confirmed in new Christie Blatchford column:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

"Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl."[/I]

The relationship between TM and TLM is also being down-played:

[I]"But the women weren't friends, merely acquaintances, their connection fleeting, so the crime is considered a random or stranger attack, the allegation that Ms. McClintic was simply on the hunt for an available, vulnerable child to bring to Mr. Rafferty."

She also reveals that LE have a video of the perps in their car:

"...her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city."

Bold is mine...

How could she just walk away while this was happening? Her lawyer may be trying to portray the accused as concerned enough to help search, but that is just not working. She lured this child into danger and then walked away. There are just no words that can make that any kind of OK. I hope the charges are amended to include murder charges.

[elepher50]

:furious::furious:I can't stand this any longer.
By the way: I am REAl furious over this. I can't stand it when people degrade females by calling them "chicks", but what did I do to her? Also, I do not agree with torture. But what am I suggesting? I think this case has taken its toll on me.:silenced:

Respectfully snipped by me: I am furious as well on many levels on this case. We are witnessing pure Evil in action and it is taking its toll on many of us who have been following.

Hugs to you for caring so deeply - I think we need to sleuth out where this Rafferty has been living and if there are any other children missing - he is 28 years old and I have a sinking feeling that Tori may not have been his first victim - any thoughts?

[jaycee]

Bold is mine...

How could she just walk away while this was happening? Her lawyer may be trying to portray the accused as concerned enough to help search, but that is just not working. She lured this child into danger and then walked away. There are just no words that can make that any kind of OK. I hope the charges are amended to include murder charges.She is as guilty as he is and should get the same sentence. I hope neither are ever set free.

[elepher50]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, but I saw on the London A Channel News this morning that the LE requested Tori's baby tooth and a pair of her shoes from Tara late yesterday. I'm assuming that's the reason the forensic team was at her house. I'm new to sleuthing so can someone maybe help me with a question, please? I can understand why the LE would want Tori's baby tooth (DNA), but why her shoes?

Hi critter, I am only guessing but they may want her shoes to match up with footprints they have found somewhere?

[critter]

Thank you Mazama and Elepher! That makes sense!

[jaycee]

Hugs to you for caring so deeply - I think we need to sleuth out where this Rafferty has been living and if there are any other children missing - he is 28 years old and I have a sinking feeling that Tori may not have been his first victim - any thoughts?The only case I can think of is Cedrika Provencher in Quebec in 2007. http://gladius-spiritus.blogspot.com/2007/08/cedrika-provencher-missing-9-year-old.html

[Turbododger]

Respectfully snipped by me: I am furious as well on many levels on this case. We are witnessing pure Evil in action and it is taking its toll on many of us who have been following.

Hugs to you for caring so deeply - I think we need to sleuth out where this Rafferty has been living and if there are any other children missing - he is 28 years old and I have a sinking feeling that Tori may not have been his first victim - any thoughts?

100% pure evil, Elepher, 100% pure evil, I am furious and sickened.

Going by previous profiles of this type of criminal, I would speculate that this filth of a human has escalated in his crimes, and I am with you on this 100%. We need to look at it. This is not likely his first crime. I am thinking, not even close. I might add that the CP case in Quebec involved a dog, so, since there has been rampant specualtion about a dog, it is possible (while no links to QC mentioned). His online profile had stated many different places of residence, and one of the above articles from today mentions that he is sorry for the last 5 years. I noticed, that alot of online activity under real name in 2006, then January of this year. He probably used alias online for his deviant purposes, in between this time frame. There was a picture of animal violence. January of this year would fit with the time frame mentioned as to when he met Terri and Carol in the pizzeria (4 months).

[gogrannypop]

TAMRA JEWEL KEEPNESS
http://ca.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=0400547&orgPrefix=RCMP&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_CA&searchLang=en_CA

JOLENE RIENDEAU
http://ca.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=9900253&orgPrefix=RCMP&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_CA&searchLang=en_CA

[Paintr]

http://www.wellingtonadvertiser.com/index.cfm?page=detail&itmno=3441

One of the most intensive pol*ice searches here in years here continued early Friday morning south of Fergus as OPP officers looked for the remains of 8-year-old Tori Stafford.

In fact, Childerley said the ground search for Stafford was continuing, and he added that the OPP was using all the resources it needs to find Stafford’s remains.

That included the Canine Unit, the Emergency Response Team, Detectives, and road patrol police.

[Turbododger]

Picture and Article of McClintic's Former Home in Parry Sound:
http://www.parrysound.com/press/1242997328/

OPP using all resources available in search for body of Tori Stafford:http://www.wellingtonadvertiser.com/index.cfm?page=detail&itmno=3441

Search for Tori continues with help from suspecthttp://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/Tori_search_090522/20090522/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Police continue search for Tori Stafford with suspect's helphttp://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/22/police-search-tori459.html


Media should strive to be more responsible
http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1579281

The price of peace for Tori's family
http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/484740

Innocence used against them
http://www.thestar.com/gta/columnist/article/638602

[Flowercb]

Here is a thorough article by Christie Blatchford.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/an-innocent-girl-who-was-hunted/article1145754/

I was surprised to learn the easter time line fit the same time line and after school abduction of Christen French by Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka.

[Kat]

A special thanks to all the locals and other Canadians that have gone out of their way to assist me/us in understanding not only the locale but the finer nuances in the differences between Canadian and American cultures. It has been helpful in understanding Tori's case and educational in other ways. Thank you ~ from this American.

:praying: today is the day that Tori comes home.

[Paintr]

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/484740

As the search for eight-year-old Tori Stafford's remains continues to play out all around us, speculation abounds that authorities may have decided to buy peace -- for the girl's family and the wider community -- by compromising with suspected evil.

And a bit more further down in the article...

Sometimes deals simply have to be cut.

Peace must be bought.

Evil must be compromised with.

[Flowercb]

:furious::furious:I can't stand this any longer. This chick has been riding around in helicopters getting all the male attention she could EVER possibly desire. No doubt they are being very nice to her, probably stopping for double, doubles. No wait ... it's hot over there, isn't it? So she is probably having Iced Capps:furious: she is just a :liar: basking in all the attention. (Just like someone else we know.) Here's an idea . . . Let's have the male investigators from Grauntaunamo (sp) Bay come and give her some real "iced caps" and see how much she's like that attention? I bet she'd remember where pour little Tori is real fast.:furious:

By the way: I am REAl furious over this. I can't stand it when people degrade females by calling them "chicks", but what did I do to her? Also, I do not agree with torture. But what am I suggesting? I think this case has taken its toll on me.:silenced:


What I can't understand is a woman lawyer representing a woman who she knows is guilty of helping abduct and murder a child.

I know some defense attorneys will not represent people they know are guilty.

I can see becoming a defense attorney to help protect the innocent but this is disgusting.

[Storme]

Flower, if they know their client is guilty by fact or admission, they cannot enter a plea of not guilty on their behalf. They can lose their license if they do. Also, while I know some lawyers who, when in law school, decided right then and there that they didn't have the intestinal fortitude to act as the defense in criminal proceedings, it is nonetheless a vital part of the justice system. I am glad others are able to do it personally, and don't judge their character by it at all. On a professional level (and providing they cross no ethical boundaries) I actually commend them because, without them, we'd have no justice system.

[darlin gal]

Because she is feeling guilt, ChaChaCha. She wants to be seen in the eyes of the world that she has absolutely no connection to her daughter's death. But the facts are starting to look like her daughter was put in harm's way because of her lifestyle and relationships.

First of all we know Tara was addicted to Oxy and was in methadone treatment. She had a problem and is getting help for it. I commend her for that. We know nothing about her current drug use other than rumor and gossip. I am sure her treatment clinic knows. You are required to take a urine test on a regular basis when undergoing methadone treatment. This not only assures the clinic that you are keeping clean of other drugs but also that you are actually taking your methadone. It's part of the treatment agreement you sign. LE has never mentioned anything to do with any drug connection.


Second, seeing how most children who are abducted are took by either a relative or someone with a connection to the family. Tara's lifestyle doesn't play any bigger role than Ed Smart's lifetyle. Both children were abducted by people that were connected by a relationship. There are very FEW stranger abductions. Ed was just lucky enough that Elizabeth wasn't killed.

From The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: (http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2816)115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.
115. Out of nearly 74 million. That is roughly 1:643,000. According to the National Weather Service (http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm), that is about the same as your chances of being struck by lightning.


jmo

[elepher50]

The only case I can think of is Cedrika Provencher in Quebec in 2007. http://gladius-spiritus.blogspot.com/2007/08/cedrika-provencher-missing-9-year-old.html

Thanks, Cedrika immediately came to mind - I did a very quick search for Rafferty in Quebec but came up with nothing - did not do any in depth sleuthing so need to do a deeper dive on any Rafferty/Quebec connections. Cedrika went missing in July 2007.

[elepher50]

TAMRA JEWEL KEEPNESS
http://ca.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=0400547&orgPrefix=RCMP&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_CA&searchLang=en_CA

JOLENE RIENDEAU
http://ca.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=9900253&orgPrefix=RCMP&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_CA&searchLang=en_CA

Thanks gogrannypop, First one is Saskatchewan and the 2nd is from Quebec. Now, convinced we need to look at any Quebec connections.

[kaas]

For those not familiar with the Justice system here in Ontario Canada, here is a link:
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/justice-ont/criminal_law.asp

And here is an outline from a local university with reference to the roles of an attorney in criminal law
http://www.law.uwo.ca/info-current/CSO/cso_criminal.html

[mo.d]

An insightful article on sexual deviants. Nothing on the women who help these men hunt for prey to keep thier men though...
http://www.pennlive.com/specialprojects/expresstimes/index.ssf?/news/expresstimes/stories/molesters2_mainbar.html

[kaas]

Here also is a google satellite image of the area that is being searched. It gives one an idea of the areas mentioned, Guelph, Rockwood, Fergus. As in most of Southern Ontario there is alot of agricultural land between these centres.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fergus+ontario&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=26.739147,78.75&ie=UTF8&ll=43.608239,-80.209122&spn=0.234171,0.615234&t=h&z=11&iwloc=A

[Kat]

mo.d that was a thought provoking article. It is applicable here and also on the Sandra Cantu thread. Thank you.

[KR2tonenow]

Picture and Article of McClintic's Former Home in Parry Sound:


Innocence used against them
http://www.thestar.com/gta/columnist/article/638602

<snipped>Tori's dad, Rodney Stafford, told the Star's Raveena Aulakh on Wednesday that Daryn had earlier mentioned the name Terri-Lynne and "that address'' – the house on Wilson St. where McClintic resided with her mother.
"Daryn was telling me something about hair-dye and a (white) coat. He knew about hair-dye and the girl possibly cutting her hair, dyeing her hair. I don't know how he got that information but it came from my son and it was rather disturbing." <snipped>

This article is a GREAT read, and I hadn't known that Daryn fingered McClintic earlier on.

The man hours OPP has spent trying to locate Tori is completely commended. Clearly in the families grief, instead of raging at OPP they should look within. These types of predators stalk families that are vulnerable. Tara strikes me as a kind of person that would tell "her life story" to a stranger. This McClintic saw the poverty, (maybe drug use), and had way Too Much Information and even knew when Tori's school let her out and possibly new Daryn walked her home.

Obviously the scrutinization of Tara is clear, but she put herself out there. If you do a press conference everday people will speculate and twist stories.

The kidnapping in California of Briant was fueled by some rumours but mainly people could see this poor family was deliberately targeted. They didn't hold press conferences everyday. And Briant was found safe and sound in Mexico and returned back to his mother!

[crazyladi]

I heard on the news last night driving home an interview with one of MR ex girlfriends. She said that they dated for three months and he was very secretive. Wouldnt answer the phone if it was ringing, had so much debt and in the three months she never met any of his friends or family. She also mentioned that MR had a KID!!!!! did anyone hear this??

[mo.d]

<snipped>Tori's dad, Rodney Stafford, told the Star's Raveena Aulakh on Wednesday that Daryn had earlier mentioned the name Terri-Lynne and "that address'' – the house on Wilson St. where McClintic resided with her mother.
"Daryn was telling me something about hair-dye and a (white) coat. He knew about hair-dye and the girl possibly cutting her hair, dyeing her hair. I don't know how he got that information but it came from my son and it was rather disturbing." <snipped>

This article is a GREAT read, and I hadn't known that Daryn fingered McClintic earlier on.

The man hours OPP has spent trying to locate Tori is completely commended. Clearly in the families grief, instead of raging at OPP they should look within. These types of predators stalk families that are vulnerable. Tara strikes me as a kind of person that would tell "her life story" to a stranger. This McClintic saw the poverty, (maybe drug use), and had way Too Much Information and even knew when Tori's school let her out and possibly new Daryn walked her home.

Obviously the scrutinization of Tara is clear, but she put herself out there. If you do a press conference everday people will speculate and twist stories.

The kidnapping in California of Briant was fueled by some rumours but mainly people could see this poor family was deliberately targeted. They didn't hold press conferences everyday. And Briant was found safe and sound in Mexico and returned back to his mother!

Was anyone listening though? Why did it take so long??? She was in custody a week later. I just dont understand all this.

From the way TM is reporting her experiences with LE I am becoming more and more upset and discouraged. Darryn should not haver been interogated with out a family member there to comfort him ect. I am starting to question the way this investigation unfolded. Even though Tori is dead and was most likely killed shortly after being abducted I still think the LE did not handle this in the right way. I never suspected TM but I suspect LE did which may have clouded thier judgment and hence the reason this all took so long. Now poor Toris remains will be decomposd so badly and that just makes it even worse for when TM and RS have to identify her. Next thing to let us down will be the system and the sentence handed down which will never be justice enough. Like TM I want those killers dead too.

[morty123]

she was in custody on unrelated charges and that is why she was not targeted in the investigation

[morty123]

she was in custody on unrelated charges and that is why she was not targeted in the investigation

to clarify this is according to media sources

[Mazama]

MR pictures

From his profile at:
http://cid-f74413e2d7bf1d01.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/me/pics%20of%20lots%20003.jpg

Picture #29 from his "me" collection. Looks like a blue Honda he is sitting in?

Picture #17 from his "friends and things" collection. Same car?

I have no clue if this is his car. Just thought it was interesting.

[morty123]

IMO she must be able to keep a secret because if she was in lockup and told anyone that she had anything to do with the abduction or murder of a child they would likely have killed her in there or dimed her out

[mareseatoats]

dimed her out? Can you explain what this means please? Thanks!

[morty123]

drop the dime or dime someone out is to pick up the phone or talk to police sorta street slang for snitch like ratting on someone

[antiquegirl]

Just heard on CP24 that TM will speak publicly to the press at 3:00 p.m. today.

[antiquegirl]

Just heard on CP24 that TM will speak publicly to the press at 3:00 p.m. today.

Reporter on CP24 now says that the previous abduction attempts in the Fergus area took place before Tori's abduction. If true, this does not preclude the possibility that if it was indeed MTR, then TLM could have also been involved (not in detention yet).

[Patience]

As police officers took a woman charged in the abduction of Tori Stafford to a farmer's field near Fergus, Ont., on Thursday to help locate the girl's body, CBC learned there were two other attempted abductions of children in the area — as recently as two weeks ago.

[darlin gal]

Newsnet

T-L will be helping police search for Tori throughout the weekend. The Judges order which expired last night has been extended. T-L is now with OPP to continue the search today.

[mo.d]

I heard on the news last night driving home an interview with one of MR ex girlfriends. She said that they dated for three months and he was very secretive. Wouldnt answer the phone if it was ringing, had so much debt and in the three months she never met any of his friends or family. She also mentioned that MR had a KID!!!!! did anyone hear this??

Yes I have heard of this too. Also he stated that he graduated from Alexander Mackenzie H.S. here in Richmond Hill, but that is not the case as he only went from Sept to March and got 1 credit. He also claimed to have gone to George Brown college for culinary arts which is also not true. He is a really creepy person. His mothers boyfriend of 6 yrs. who had lived with his mother in Woodstock even moved out of the house because he couldnt stand MR who was free loading there for a year. I really dont like the looks of this guy and its really good that he is behing bars. He must have offended prior to this. His face book profile stated "something good is coming my way". I can only say that perhaps its good he didnt know his child.

[morty123]

I agree totally IMO he is absolutely creepy

[Patience]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/21/9530396.html

[wishingtorihome]

I keep thinking about the dog connection between TLM and Tara McDonald.
I went back to Tara and Rodney's May 12th news conference to transcribe the segment when a reporter asked her about that day's news story re: her dog.
After Tara read the Mother's Day letter she wrote to Tori, the reporter questioned her about her dog not being at home.
Tara responded:
“That has nothing to do with my daughter, so I mean. I would appreciate it if people would just concentrate on Victoria and not our dog. Our dog’s coming home and that’s all there is to it.”
Then, in today's Toronto Star, Raveena Aulakh writes something I hadn't known or heard about Terri, her mother Carol and the dogs.
(see below)

May 22, 2009 04:30 AM
RAVEENA AULAKH
STAFF REPORTER

Then Terri-Lynne met Michael Rafferty five months ago. "He didn't like me because I was strict. I didn't know him and I didn't want him to pull her in a wrong direction."
Carol claims she warned Terri-Lynne about Rafferty. "He gave me the creeps ... he made my skin crawl," she said.
"I have five grandkids and Terri-Lynne is like a saint with them," said Carol, who has a 34-year-old daughter and a 31-year-old son who live in Brampton. Carol said Terri-Lynne and Tori had met thanks to dogs – Carol owns two small dogs.
"The only thing I knew about Terri-Lynne was that she walked the dogs and Tori had talked to her about Precious (one of the dogs) as she is the same as their dog," said Carol.
She met Tara McDonald, Tori's mother, and James Goris, her boyfriend, who she said wanted to breed their dog, Cosmo, with her dogs.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This was the first I heard that Tori had actually met TLM and knew about her dog. As others have commented here, I believe it's quite possible that Tori was lured to the car when she was told something about the dogs.

[mo.d]

Newsnet

T-L will be helping police search for Tori throughout the weekend. The Judges order which expired last night has been extended. T-L is now with OPP to continue the search today.

Is there live footage of this on the internet or tv?
Why can they not get his help? He probably knows where she is and I am beggining to suspect is really adept at hiding bodies for some reason. This guy creeps me out!!! they also went to a rock pile. Either she is under a pile of rocks or she isnt. How many rock piles are there exactly???? They have been to so many locations seeking her remains. What dear God can this mean?????

[Patience]

Attempted Abduction UnfoundedWeb posted on April 17, 2009Attempted Abduction Unfounded (Mount Forest, On) On Friday, April 3rd, 2009 at about 3:50pm, County of Wellington OPP received a report of an 11-year-old girl, walking home from school in Mount Forest. The youth reported she was approached by a car and the male occupant tried to get the young girl to approach the car and she refused. The incident details stated the dark auto was last seen driving west on King Street East towards Main Street in Mount Forest. County of Wellington OPP and members of the County of Wellington OPP Crime Unit continued to investigate this incident and have now determined that this incident is unfounded.

[jaycee]

Is there live footage of this on the internet or tv?
Why can they not get his help? He probably knows where she is and I am beggining to suspect is really adept at hiding bodies for some reason. This guy creeps me out!!! they also went to a rock pile. Either she is under a pile of rocks or she isnt. How many rock piles are there exactly???? They have been to so many locations seeking her remains. What dear God can this mean?????Maybe they took back roads at night and Terri is confused. It shouldn't be taking this long.

[Patience]

http://www.thefountainpen.com/cgi-bin/showstory?id=7353

[darlin gal]

Is there live footage of this on the internet or tv?
Why can they not get his help? He probably knows where she is and I am beggining to suspect is really adept at hiding bodies for some reason. This guy creeps me out!!! they also went to a rock pile. Either she is under a pile of rocks or she isnt. How many rock piles are there exactly???? They have been to so many locations seeking her remains. What dear God can this mean?????


it was TV, sorry.


He isn't helping or talking I imagine.

She may have been told about where he "dumped" the little angel's body and not been there at the time ....or it may have been dark and she isn't/wasn't familiar with the area and really didn't notice or keep track of landmarks, being a passenger.

just guessing

[kaas]

Newsnet

T-L will be helping police search for Tori throughout the weekend. The Judges order which expired last night has been extended. T-L is now with OPP to continue the search today.


Police continue to search for Tori.
It just sickens me and I am concerned that they perhaps do not have the right location. As it states here http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-woman-helps-police-search-for-toris-body/article1147720/ “Locals living near the police's search sites speculated that the multiple searches are due to the difficulty of recalling a rural location that the killer may have visited in the middle of the night, nearly two months ago.”

As you can see by the google satellite image, most farms are bordered by trees or bushlots. http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fergus+ontario&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=26.739147,78.75&ie=UTF8&ll=43.608239,-80.209122&spn=0.234171,0.615234&t=h&z=11&iwloc=A

One of the first areas we searched were ours and neighbours fields for anything……….. Most have a back or field lane for tractor access . And it is not uncommon for a back lane to border a bushline, with an accompanying dump spot for rocks picked from the fields. We checked these lanes, looking for tire tracks, disturbances of any kind or discarded items. Unfortunately it is not unusual for people to dump unwanted or “hot” items in these areas. We have found over the years, an upside down, completely stripped stolen car, a stolen “Johnny on the Spot” portable outhouse, a stolen boat, complete with trailer! There have also been several times dumped loads of roofing shingles and renovation refuse. Some of these “back lanes” also provide access to a farm’s livestock composting site. http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/deadstock/facts/disp_onfarm.htm#3 “Multiple sites can be established with appropriate setbacks between them to reduce the cumulative impact of leaching”

So perhaps Terri is attempting to assist LE locate Tori but confused because of unfamiliar terrain. If she is leading them on, well……………………

I am tired, and heart broken. And in my messed state find that the attempt to locate this dear child as near some rocks and trees brings to mind the satirical song by the Arrogant Worms …………http://artists.letssingit.com/arrogant-worms-lyrics-rocks-and-trees-3z9gm2f
“Cause we've got
Rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And water”

[Mazama]

Why can they not get his help?

Respectfully snipped by me

They can't make him help...he obviously is refusing to admit to anything and most likely has been told by his lawyer to keep quiet. MOO

[Mazama]

Maybe they took back roads at night and Terri is confused. It shouldn't be taking this long.

I believe it was previously reported that it indeed was dark when they disposed of Victoria.

[crazyladi]

Maybe they took back roads at night and Terri is confused. It shouldn't be taking this long.

I think that there is only one reason why its taking this long, and I am sure its too graphic for me to discuss on here. I am thinking copycat bernardo.. that is also why i think they have called it murder before the body has been found. JMO

[Patience]

The waiting for this precious wee girl to be found is terrible. I just can't imagine what the families are feeling. I am so sorry Tara, Rodney, Daryn. I am so sorry for your loss.

[stellarkix]

I was researching how long it would take for a body to decompose and came across this...


http://silenciodoctrine.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!801F2BC25353C0BE!134.entry


As a rule of thumb, a body exposed to open air will decay the same amount in one day as a body in water in one week and a body buried underground in one month. Heat speeds decay; cold slows it down.



A body in a typical casket burial can take decades to decay down to the skeleton if embalmed properly, or as little as a year if not. But such decay can happen in a week if the body is outside, if it is exposed to carnivores, or if it has open wounds.


I'm thikning through my research that if her body was indeed dumped somewhere, there probably isn't much left... Sorry to be graphic.

[crazyladi]

I was researching how long it would take for a body to decompose and came across this...


http://silenciodoctrine.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!801F2BC25353C0BE!134.entry


As a rule of thumb, a body exposed to open air will decay the same amount in one day as a body in water in one week and a body buried underground in one month. Heat speeds decay; cold slows it down.



A body in a typical casket burial can take decades to decay down to the skeleton if embalmed properly, or as little as a year if not. But such decay can happen in a week if the body is outside, if it is exposed to carnivores, or if it has open wounds.


I'm thikning through my research that if her body was indeed dumped somewhere, there probably isn't much left... Sorry to be graphic.


not graphic at all.. This is the question that I was wondering as well, especually yesterday because it was so hot

[ella's mom]

May 22, 2009 04:30 AM
RAVEENA AULAKH
STAFF REPORTER

Then Terri-Lynne met Michael Rafferty five months ago. "He didn't like me because I was strict. I didn't know him and I didn't want him to pull her in a wrong direction."
Carol claims she warned Terri-Lynne about Rafferty. "He gave me the creeps ... he made my skin crawl," she said.
"I have five grandkids and Terri-Lynne is like a saint with them," said Carol, who has a 34-year-old daughter and a 31-year-old son who live in Brampton. Carol said Terri-Lynne and Tori had met thanks to dogs – Carol owns two small dogs.
"The only thing I knew about Terri-Lynne was that she walked the dogs and Tori had talked to her about Precious (one of the dogs) as she is the same as their dog," said Carol.
She met Tara McDonald, Tori's mother, and James Goris, her boyfriend, who she said wanted to breed their dog, Cosmo, with her dogs.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This was the first I heard that Tori had actually met TLM and knew about her dog. As others have commented here, I believe it's quite possible that Tori was lured to the car when she was told something about the dogs.

I think it's possible this is an error in names. It probably should have said Tara, not Tori.

[darlin gal]

Newsnet

OPP in Fergus is coordinating the search for the remains. T-L is flying and driving around with police hoping that she will recognize a landmark or that she will see something that will trigger what took place 6 weeks ago. No closer in finding Tori than they were 2 days ago. T-L is reported to be doing her best to remember but the trees now have leaves which they did not have 6 weeks ago and it is making it harder to recognize the areas and see things; things look a whole lot different.

Police are not saying whether she has been useful or not. Can only assume they are making progress or they would not have asked to have her help extended. They are looking for a needle in a haystack as the area is farmland, wooded areas and ponds which all look the same.

They seem to have a keen interest in piles of rocks out in farmers fields. Search teams are currently at a new pile of rocks west of Fergus searching.

Search area is currently between Rockwood, Bellwood Lake, Guelph and Fergus.

http://i42.tinypic.com/3522n9u.jpg

credit NorthernRose

[victorian]

Respectfully snipped by me

They can't make him help...he obviously is refusing to admit to anything and most likely has been told by his lawyer to keep quiet. MOO
*Putting on my kevlar vest*
What if........he's been set up by her?
I'm not ruling this out until there's more evidence. I just don't trust her as far as I can spit.
Obviously we aren't privy to whether either of them have taken lie detector tests.

[antiquegirl]

http://www.thefountainpen.com/cgi-bin/showstory?id=7353

Patience, please give us a clue as to what's included in your link, preferably a quote from it. Thanks!

ETA: I mean for next time.

[ella's mom]

Can someone tell me where the rumor thead is or post a link? I am having trouble finding it.

[cdnDAD]

Can someone tell me where the rumor thead is or post a link? I am having trouble finding it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84246&page=36

[mo.d]

Can someone tell me where the rumor thead is or post a link? I am having trouble finding it.

if you go to the home page index
then go to the section marked private forums
then find the parking lot forum and then find this thread hth :)

[Mazama]

*Putting on my kevlar vest*
What if........he's been set up by her?
I'm not ruling this out until there's more evidence. I just don't trust her as far as I can spit.
Obviously we aren't privy to whether either of them have taken lie detector tests.

Well, if I were in his position and had nothing to do with it and felt I was being set up....I would be screaming at the top of my lungs that I am innocent and offer up whatever help I could.

And to further the thought...if he was not directly involved with Victoria's death you'd think that he would be singing and pointing fingers at her.

[elepher50]

Is there live footage of this on the internet or tv?
Why can they not get his help? He probably knows where she is and I am beggining to suspect is really adept at hiding bodies for some reason. This guy creeps me out!!! they also went to a rock pile. Either she is under a pile of rocks or she isnt. How many rock piles are there exactly???? They have been to so many locations seeking her remains. What dear God can this mean?????

Hi mo.d, I am sure one pile of rocks is going to look like any other pile of rocks in the countryside to a potentially stoned individual hence, the difficulty in narrowing the search down to one pile of rocks. I don't think there is anything more to it than that but I have been wrong many a time in my life.

[victorian]

Well, if I were in his position and had nothing to do with it and felt I was being set up....I would be screaming at the top of my lungs that I am innocent and offer up whatever help I could.

And to further the thought...if he was not directly involved with Victoria's death you'd think that he would be singing and pointing fingers at her.
He very well may be singing while she's flying around in the whirlybird. :rolleyes:

I'm just being cautious of nailing him to the cross until I hear more. I can't explain a gut feeling. It's been her from the start that sends out alarm bells for me.

[mo.d]

http://www.thefountainpen.com/cgi-bin/showstory?id=7353

Sorry what is unfounded? Means it was made up? I dont believe that. what would be the motive for that? Maybe the police dont believe, but it just could be true nevertheless.

[cdnDAD]

*Putting on my kevlar vest*
What if........he's been set up by her?
I'm not ruling this out until there's more evidence. I just don't trust her as far as I can spit.
Obviously we aren't privy to whether either of them have taken lie detector tests.

I have to agree here, theres a lot that doesn't make sense to me about what has transpired over the last few days... here's some things I can't seem to wrap my head around.

1. If MR was so secretive and quiet and mysterious then why does he have more than 5 different websites with tons of info, write ups on himself, and lots of pictures...

2. The day MR was arrested his ex GF said he stole her debit card and took 2000 bucks from it yet on one of his pics on his msn site she posted and I quote "Thats the guy who is not man enough to pay his ex-girlfriend back the money she lent him to pay his rent so he could have a roof over his head(which is over 2000$ grrr!!!)
Feb. 25 " To me in feb it was lent to him and not paid back but after being accused of murder he stole it, that story doesn't add up.

3. I have watched this forum since about the first of May, I've read many many different scenario's idea's thoughts and speculation, one thing that surprises me is all the INFO that's coming out about TLM; what the neighbors saw, what TLM said to some of them, the white coat, cutting her hair etc etc. I for the life of me can't figure out why with all of the "rumors" that were going around why this info never came to light before.

There's a lot that doesn't add up for me and I have several different scenarios running through my head and one of them as mentioned by victorian is that maybe MR is not the Main Criminal here.....maybe the charges should be the other way around some what...

[marla]

Yes I have heard of this too. Also he stated that he graduated from Alexander Mackenzie H.S. here in Richmond Hill, but that is not the case as he only went from Sept to March and got 1 credit. He also claimed to have gone to George Brown college for culinary arts which is also not true. He is a really creepy person. His mothers boyfriend of 6 yrs. who had lived with his mother in Woodstock even moved out of the house because he couldnt stand MR who was free loading there for a year. I really dont like the looks of this guy and its really good that he is behing bars. He must have offended prior to this. His face book profile stated "something good is coming my way". I can only say that perhaps its good he didnt know his child.


When I went to high school in Ricmond Hill, there were only 3 high schools LOL, Bayview, Richmond Hill and Don Head ..

Things have changed a lot in 30 yrs! :D

[captaincanada]

Is there live footage of this on the internet or tv?
Why can they not get his help? He probably knows where she is and I am beggining to suspect is really adept at hiding bodies for some reason. This guy creeps me out!!! they also went to a rock pile. Either she is under a pile of rocks or she isnt. How many rock piles are there exactly???? They have been to so many locations seeking her remains. What dear God can this mean?????

It means that maybe MR relocated her body when TLM was in custody. He probably thought that she might 'talk' while in custody and he went to cover his tracks. That is why they're having a hard time finding Tori (she isn't where TLM expected her to be).

[marla]

I keep thinking about the dog connection between TLM and Tara McDonald.
I went back to Tara and Rodney's May 12th news conference to transcribe the segment when a reporter asked her about that day's news story re: her dog.
After Tara read the Mother's Day letter she wrote to Tori, the reporter questioned her about her dog not being at home.
Tara responded:
“That has nothing to do with my daughter, so I mean. I would appreciate it if people would just concentrate on Victoria and not our dog. Our dog’s coming home and that’s all there is to it.”
Then, in today's Toronto Star, Raveena Aulakh writes something I hadn't known or heard about Terri, her mother Carol and the dogs.
(see below)

May 22, 2009 04:30 AM
RAVEENA AULAKH
STAFF REPORTER

Then Terri-Lynne met Michael Rafferty five months ago. "He didn't like me because I was strict. I didn't know him and I didn't want him to pull her in a wrong direction."
Carol claims she warned Terri-Lynne about Rafferty. "He gave me the creeps ... he made my skin crawl," she said.
"I have five grandkids and Terri-Lynne is like a saint with them," said Carol, who has a 34-year-old daughter and a 31-year-old son who live in Brampton. Carol said Terri-Lynne and Tori had met thanks to dogs – Carol owns two small dogs.
"The only thing I knew about Terri-Lynne was that she walked the dogs and Tori had talked to her about Precious (one of the dogs) as she is the same as their dog," said Carol.
She met Tara McDonald, Tori's mother, and James Goris, her boyfriend, who she said wanted to breed their dog, Cosmo, with her dogs.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This was the first I heard that Tori had actually met TLM and knew about her dog. As others have commented here, I believe it's quite possible that Tori was lured to the car when she was told something about the dogs.

I agree, great catch! :clap:

[MsRyber]

Maybe they took back roads at night and Terri is confused. It shouldn't be taking this long.


Oh I am not surprised in the least it is taking this long. There are multiple concessions back there, all that virtually look identical. Remember, she was allegedly placed there when there was still snow on the ground. Now there is grass up to a foot high in the ditches. Also, the many farmers have recently tilled and their crops are starting to bud. So there is no visual "we put her near a cornfield, we put her near a beanfield" as everything was covered at that point. We also don't know 100% if she was with MR when she was dumped. Or if she was dumped at nighttime, there would be no markers, and as someone who lived off a dirt road growing up, they all tend to look alike at night.
She might be going by what she remembers.

It is no stretch of the imagination that it is taking this long. If you've seen the ditches in Southern Ontario, specifically in the greenbelt, you'll know they are big, deep and everything looks similar.

[MsRyber]

I believe it was previously reported that it indeed was dark when they disposed of Victoria.


That was the indication given to my husband's best friend, an officer with OPP.
I cannot confirm with a link.

[cdnDAD]

Completely off topic, but apparently my tribute vid has upset some member of you tube who had some harsh things to say in the comments area... Does anyone know where I can post it thats more private?

[Patience]

Sorry, but my computer does not work and jumbles the link and words together. I will try again.Attempted Abduction UnfoundedWeb posted on April 17, 2009Attempted Abduction Unfounded (Mount Forest, On) On Friday, April 3rd, 2009 at about 3:50pm, County of Wellington OPP received a report of an 11-year-old girl, walking home from school in Mount Forest. The youth reported she was approached by a car and the male occupant tried to get the young girl to approach the car and she refused. The incident details stated the dark auto was last seen driving west on King Street East towards Main Street in Mount Forest. County of Wellington OPP and members of the County of Wellington OPP Crime Unit continued to investigate this incident and have now determined that this incident is unfounded. http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:xDPm4ZEMHXkJ:www.thefountainpen.com/cgi-bin/showstory%3Fid%3D7353+attempted+abduction+fergus&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk

[wubblewobble]

CP24 says that Tara is going to speak at 3 today.

[marla]

I have to agree here, theres a lot that doesn't make sense to me about what has transpired over the last few days... here's some things I can't seem to wrap my head around.

1. If MR was so secretive and quiet and mysterious then why does he have more than 5 different websites with tons of info, write ups on himself, and lots of pictures...

Lots of loners on the www ..

2. The day MR was arrested his ex GF said he stole her debit card and took 2000 bucks from it yet on one of his pics on his msn site she posted and I quote "Thats the guy who is not man enough to pay his ex-girlfriend back the money she lent him to pay his rent so he could have a roof over his head(which is over 2000$ grrr!!!)
Feb. 25 " To me in feb it was lent to him and not paid back but after being accused of murder he stole it, that story doesn't add up.

Not being repaid to me, means the $$$ was stolen ..

3. I have watched this forum since about the first of May, I've read many many different scenario's idea's thoughts and speculation, one thing that surprises me is all the INFO that's coming out about TLM; what the neighbors saw, what TLM said to some of them, the white coat, cutting her hair etc etc. I for the life of me can't figure out why with all of the "rumors" that were going around why this info never came to light before.

Maybe LE had them keep quiet?

There's a lot that doesn't add up for me and I have several different scenarios running through my head and one of them as mentioned by victorian is that maybe MR is not the Main Criminal here.....maybe the charges should be the other way around some what...
My response is bold .. :seeya:

[cdnDAD]

Completely off topic, but apparently my tribute vid has upset some member of you tube who had some harsh things to say in the comments area... Does anyone know where I can post it thats more private?

Please disregard this Question, I think I've taken care of it.

[Mazama]

I have to agree here, theres a lot that doesn't make sense to me about what has transpired over the last few days... here's some things I can't seem to wrap my head around.

1. If MR was so secretive and quiet and mysterious then why does he have more than 5 different websites with tons of info, write ups on himself, and lots of pictures...

2. The day MR was arrested his ex GF said he stole her debit card and took 2000 bucks from it yet on one of his pics on his msn site she posted and I quote "Thats the guy who is not man enough to pay his ex-girlfriend back the money she lent him to pay his rent so he could have a roof over his head(which is over 2000$ grrr!!!)
Feb. 25 " To me in feb it was lent to him and not paid back but after being accused of murder he stole it, that story doesn't add up.

3. I have watched this forum since about the first of May, I've read many many different scenario's idea's thoughts and speculation, one thing that surprises me is all the INFO that's coming out about TLM; what the neighbors saw, what TLM said to some of them, the white coat, cutting her hair etc etc. I for the life of me can't figure out why with all of the "rumors" that were going around why this info never came to light before.

There's a lot that doesn't add up for me and I have several different scenarios running through my head and one of them as mentioned by victorian is that maybe MR is not the Main Criminal here.....maybe the charges should be the other way around some what...

I'd like to point out that his MSN page shows last date (that I could find) modified on his pictures was Jan 2008. So he obviously hadn't kept that page accurate and/or updated.

Being secretive and quiet in a relationship doesn't mean he was smart.

Please link the $2000 quote...I'd like to look at it.

Main criminal vs. minor criminal? He was in the car with TLM, he was a party to the crime/crimes...he is just as guilty. MOO

[cdnDAD]

My response is bold .. :seeya:


All thing's I have thought of for sure, I guess I'm just playing devils advocate, I want to go on record saying that I agree not repaying 2000 is stealing however it's in the way its displayed to public, "he stole my debit card and took 2000.00" has a much different impact then "he borrowed 2000 and never repaid it back"

Quoted picture of 200.00 debt

http://cid-f74413e2d7bf1d01.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/me/DSC00719.JPG

[msfittz]

MR pictures

From his profile at:
http://cid-f74413e2d7bf1d01.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/me/pics%20of%20lots%20003.jpg

Picture #29 from his "me" collection. Looks like a blue Honda he is sitting in?

Picture #17 from his "friends and things" collection. Same car?

I have no clue if this is his car. Just thought it was interesting.

Did anyone look through all of these photos?

They seem SO inconsistent with someone who would do something like this to a child.

I know you can't judge a book by it's cover, but something seems off. He seems to have a very close relationship with his extended family. The caliber of his "friends" APPEARS to be much higher than what we're seeing in this case. Look at him with his cats for cryin' out loud. I know there are references to drinking and getting wasted (alchohol, no mention of drugs) but I don't think that's remarkably uncommon for a 28 year old guy.

When you juxtapose this against TLM's crazy crips page - it just doesn't sit right.

Merely my read on this collection of photos only. I'm sure there's other evidence (other than TLMs "confession") pointing to him.

Back to lurking...

[captaincanada]

Completely off topic, but apparently my tribute vid has upset some member of you tube who had some harsh things to say in the comments area... Does anyone know where I can post it thats more private?

Best to ignore people like that. Just disable your comment section on youtube.

[msfittz]

I'd like to point out that his MSN page shows last date (that I could find) modified on his pictures was Jan 2008. So he obviously hadn't kept that page accurate and/or updated.

Being secretive and quiet in a relationship doesn't mean he was smart.

Please link the $2000 quote...I'd like to look at it.

Main criminal vs. minor criminal? He was in the car with TLM, he was a party to the crime/crimes...he is just as guilty. MOO

I've not been able to read through everything, so I think I missed something.

I know there's video of two in a car together - but was that on the day Tori was abducted? I thought it was some other random camera - maybe in London?

I could be totally wrong...

[Mazama]

All thing's I have thought of for sure, I guess I'm just playing devils advocate, I want to go on record saying that I agree not repaying 2000 is stealing however it's in the way its displayed to public, "he stole my debit card and took 2000.00" has a much different impact then "he borrowed 2000 and never repaid it back"

Quoted picture of 200.00 debt

http://cid-f74413e2d7bf1d01.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/me/DSC00719.JPG

Thank you for the link. Too bad the year isn't displayed. Her profile is basically empty too.

IMO, they both appear guilty, equally.

[Paintr]

GUELPH – The lawyer for one of the accused abductors of Tori Stafford says her client wants Stafford's family to understand that she is trying to return their daughter's body to them.

"I know (Terry-Lynne McClintic) wants them to know that she is doing everything in her power to assist the police in bringing Tori home and I know that that's very important to her," lawyer Jeanine LeRoy said this morning. "It's important to her that they know that."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/638766


My answer to that is...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1147974/

"Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl."

I do not care how much the accused is hurting now. I care about how much Tori was hurting then. I no longer care what TLM wants.

[Mazama]

I've not been able to read through everything, so I think I missed something.

I know there's video of two in a car together - but was that on the day Tori was abducted? I thought it was some other random camera - maybe in London?

I could be totally wrong...

Surveillance camera catches accused couple on day Tori was taken


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

[Paintr]

http://cd989.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16445

Oxford Police are starting to create a DNA profile of Victoria Stafford. Last night, OPP brought Tori's mother Tara McDonald and her boyfriend James Goris to McDonald's home for a tooth and a pair of Tori's shoes. OPP would not comment to media about the roundup of the items, nor what the accused Terri-Lynn McClintic led them to in a Fergus field yesterday

[sillybilly]

Most likely for tracking dogs so they can get a good scent of her to find her remains.

I'm not finished reading the thread this morning, so this may have been addressed by already.

They will be using cadaver dogs to locate Tori's remains. Cadaver dogs do not require the person's scent. Unlike tracking dogs that are provided the scent of a live person, cadaver dogs are trained strictly to detect human remains, not the scent from live individuals. Make sense?

[msfittz]

Surveillance camera catches accused couple on day Tori was taken


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

Okay, so it was the same day, but not in Woodstock. This IS the article I was thinking of.

Has anyone heard whether this was before or after Tori was taken?

[Mazama]

I'm not finished reading the thread this morning, so this may have been addressed by already.

They will be using cadaver dogs to locate Tori's remains. Cadaver dogs do not require the person's scent. Unlike tracking dogs that are provided the scent of a live person, cadaver dogs are trained strictly to detect human remains, not the scent from live individuals. Make sense?

Thank you. I am assuming they want the shoes to get her scent therefore they are looking for her and/or articles of her clothing and possibly locate her remains.

[Mazama]

Okay, so it was the same day, but not in Woodstock. This IS the article I was thinking of.

Has anyone heard whether this was before or after Tori was taken?

The article states the answer to your question:

After Victoria (Tori) Stafford was abducted on April 8 from her Woodstock hometown, her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

[sillybilly]

What I can't understand is a woman lawyer representing a woman who she knows is guilty of helping abduct and murder a child.

I know some defense attorneys will not represent people they know are guilty.

I can see becoming a defense attorney to help protect the innocent but this is disgusting.

I used to work in an Ontario law firm. One of our lawyers (who is now a District Court Judge) was representing a pedophile. I asked him one day "how can you defend someone like that?". His answer was "because everyone is entitled to a defence".

It is one of the basic tenets of our legal system. I sure couldn't do it.

[msfittz]

The article states the answer to your question:

After Victoria (Tori) Stafford was abducted on April 8 from her Woodstock hometown, her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

oops, sorry.

I did read the article...apparently not the first word :bang:

ETA: I can't even imagine looking at that video - how horrible.

[jaycee]

Foliage changes hamper search for body of Ont. girl Tori, says lawyer of accused

McClintic's lawyer Jeanine LeRoy said Friday that her client has a message for Tori's family.

"She wants them to know that she is doing everything in her power to assist the police in bringing Tori home," LeRoy said outside court in Guelph, Ont., where she was appearing on unrelated matters.

"It's important to her that they know that."

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090522/090522_missing_girl/20090522/?hub=CP24Home

[marla]

All thing's I have thought of for sure, I guess I'm just playing devils advocate, I want to go on record saying that I agree not repaying 2000 is stealing however it's in the way its displayed to public, "he stole my debit card and took 2000.00" has a much different impact then "he borrowed 2000 and never repaid it back"

Quoted picture of 200.00 debt

http://cid-f74413e2d7bf1d01.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/me/DSC00719.JPG

I see where you're coming from regarding the $$$$ .. :)
However, you won't find me playing devils advocate, to me that's just parsing and snipping .. :seeya:

[marla]

The article states the answer to your question:

After Victoria (Tori) Stafford was abducted on April 8 from her Woodstock hometown, her accused killers were captured together in a car by a surveillance camera located in a nearby Southwestern Ontario city.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/columnists/surveillance-camera-catches-accused-couple-on-day-tori-was-taken/article1147974/

:furious:

[ballhockey mom]

Accused helping police as gesture to Tori's family

The lawyer of the woman accused in the kidnapping of Victoria "Tori" Stafford says her client is co-operating in the search for the girl's body as a gesture to the 8-year-old's family.

~ Bolded by me - A 'gesture' to the family?!? :clap: way to go TLM, way to go....... :banghead:

[msfittz]

Does anyone here recall hearing where Carol McClintic was born? I'm trying to get the info for the Astro Thread.

[cdnDAD]

Has the media had any contact with family of MR?

[captaincanada]

TM rumoured that TLM confessed after she found out that MR was with another girl. Is it possible that MR has nothing to do with this and TLM is just some psycho trying to get back at her ex??

TM was right to say that if TLM really knew where Tori is, they would have found her by now.

For all we know Tori could be locked up in a basement somewhere. Scary thought.

[Mazama]

:furious:

What?

[stellarkix]

TM rumoured that TLM confessed after she found out that MR was with another girl. Is it possible that MR has nothing to do with this and TLM is just some psycho trying to get back at her ex??

TM was right to say that if TLM really knew where Tori is, they would have found her by now.

For all we know Tori could be locked up in a basement somewhere. Scary thought.

This is true... but how would you explain the surveilance camera catching the 2 of them on camera the same day Tori went missing??

And also like other posters have said, every county road looks the same in the dark... and now that there is grass growing/trees with leaves, it might be a little harder to see/remember the spot?

[ToriComeHome]

Accused helping police as gesture to Tori's family

The lawyer of the woman accused in the kidnapping of Victoria "Tori" Stafford says her client is co-operating in the search for the girl's body as a gesture to the 8-year-old's family.

~ Bolded by me - A 'gesture' to the family?!? :clap: way to go TLM, way to go....... :banghead:

A gesture?? I can think of a "gesture" or two I'd like to give that sick beotch TLM!!! :furious:

[captaincanada]

This is true... but how would you explain the surveilance camera catching the 2 of them on camera the same day Tori went missing??

And also like other posters have said, every county road looks the same in the dark... and now that there is grass growing/trees with leaves, it might be a little harder to see/remember the spot?

It might be possible that she did something to Tori herself and then met up with him later. We haven't heard a statement from him, except "I didn't do it", so we don't know his side of the story yet.

As for her not remembering the spot, my guess is if he did kill Tori, he probably relocated the body when TLM was in custody for fear of her ratting him out.

If he didn't kill Tori, then TLM is just playing games with the police.

[ballhockey mom]

me too....:sick:

[Mazama]

I find it odd that so many are angry at TLM and not directing any anger at MR.

I am angry at both. In my mind they are both suspect.

In my mind there is still more to this whole story but that is jmo.

[cdnDAD]

Not sure if this should go in rumors thread but what if:

What Tara said about TLM being upset that MR had got another Gf was true and she was lashing out and trying to sink him. TLM by the looks of her FB page is obviously disturbed maybe its not too far fetched that she planned this big murder spiel in an effort to screw him over LARGE. He may have abducted her for ransom?, perhaps to sell on black market somewhere... He was in need of money by the sounds of it. It's obviously plausible that if she knew where Tori was, they would have had her by now. Perhaps there is some hope that Tori is alive and held somewhere. I know people will say well the police would have had to had something concrete to lay a murder charge, but perhaps with all of the miscue's that there seems to be by LE, they took her word for it??? only time will tell i suppose.

[marla]

What?

Just that they were video taped AFTER they took Tori ..
She could have still been alive, in the trunk or something ..

[stellarkix]

I find it odd that so many are angry at TLM and not directing any anger at MR.

I am angry at both. In my mind they are both suspect.

In my mind there is still more to this whole story but that is jmo.



I totally agree that there is more to the story as well. Maybe within the next few days we will hear something from MTR's lawyer?

I think everyone is moreso angry at TLM because she's involved and now "helping" the police find the body...

[Mazama]

Just that they were video taped AFTER they took Tori ..
She could have still been alive, in the trunk or something ..

Whew! Thought you might have been angry with me...was trying to figure out what I might have said...lol Thanks :)

[Mazama]

I totally agree that there is more to the story as well. Maybe within the next few days we will hear something from MTR's lawyer?

I think everyone is moreso angry at TLM because she's involved and now "helping" the police find the body...

Yes but better that she is trying to help find the remains ( assuming she isn't playing games) than to never find her at all. :mad:

[butterfly1978]

TM rumoured that TLM confessed after she found out that MR was with another girl. Is it possible that MR has nothing to do with this and TLM is just some psycho trying to get back at her ex??

TM was right to say that if TLM really knew where Tori is, they would have found her by now.

For all we know Tori could be locked up in a basement somewhere. Scary thought.

Thats what I have been saying. What proof do they have that Tori is dead. Look at this girls FB profile she is :eek:crazy. She very well could be making this up... This girl is EVIL.

Possable senerio: She finds out that her boyfriend is cheating while she is behind bars, and makes this "fake confession" to get back at him... Apparently this girl has nothing to lose, What if Tori is still alive and out there!! Why can Terri Lynn not take them to Tori?
I don't buy the fact that she doesnt recognize the area cause of foliage.
UGGGGGG:bang:

[butterfly1978]

Not sure if this should go in rumors thread but what if:

What Tara said about TLM being upset that MR had got another Gf was true and she was lashing out and trying to sink him. TLM by the looks of her FB page is obviously disturbed maybe its not too far fetched that she planned this big murder spiel in an effort to screw him over LARGE. He may have abducted her for ransom?, perhaps to sell on black market somewhere... He was in need of money by the sounds of it. It's obviously plausible that if she knew where Tori was, they would have had her by now. Perhaps there is some hope that Tori is alive and held somewhere. I know people will say well the police would have had to had something concrete to lay a murder charge, but perhaps with all of the miscue's that there seems to be by LE, they took her word for it??? only time will tell i suppose. WOw, I just saw your post and I just posted almost the exact same thing.

[Mazama]

Thats what I have been saying. What proof do they have that Tori is dead. Look at this girls FB profile she is :eek:crazy. She very well could be making this up... This girl is EVIL.

Possable senerio: She finds out that her boyfriend is cheating while she is behind bars, and makes this "fake confession" to get back at him... Apparently this girl has nothing to lose, What if Tori is still alive and out there!! Why can Terri Lynn not take them to Tori?
I don't buy the fact that she doesnt recognize the area cause of foliage.
UGGGGGG:bang:

I believe it was reported that the search area on April 8/9 was still having snow showers and trees were bare so now that foliage is on trees and grass growing it is making it very difficult to find the exact area.

I could be wrong...

[sillybilly]

I totally agree that there is more to the story as well. Maybe within the next few days we will hear something from MTR's lawyer?

I think everyone is moreso angry at TLM because she's involved and now "helping" the police find the body...

AND that had it not been for TLM abducting Tori, maybe Tori would still be alive and well.

[butterfly1978]

I just dont know, This girl is a pretty messed up teenager, something just isnt right here. I think she maybe involved but, what if she is setting up her boyfriendfor it... I dunno something just isn't right.

[captaincanada]

Thats what I have been saying. What proof do they have that Tori is dead. Look at this girls FB profile she is :eek:crazy. She very well could be making this up... This girl is EVIL.

Possable senerio: She finds out that her boyfriend is cheating while she is behind bars, and makes this "fake confession" to get back at him... Apparently this girl has nothing to lose, What if Tori is still alive and out there!! Why can Terri Lynn not take them to Tori?
I don't buy the fact that she doesnt recognize the area cause of foliage.
UGGGGGG:bang:

I agree with that possibility. I just find it hard to believe that the Police are going off of a confession alone. But, we don't know??

[marla]

Whew! Thought you might have been angry with me...was trying to figure out what I might have said...lol Thanks :)

Last edited by Mazama; Today at 01:54 PM. Reason: I think it is your picture that scared me the most! LOL


hehehehehe too funny! :blowkiss:

[msfittz]

I find it odd that so many are angry at TLM and not directing any anger at MR.

I am angry at both. In my mind they are both suspect.

In my mind there is still more to this whole story but that is jmo.

I know this is not going to be popular, but just hear/read me out...

ITA that they are both suspect but there are many things that point concretely to TLM
-the video
-the neighbors
-the composite
-her confession
There is not a doubt in my mind that she is involved.

There are only two things pointing to MR
-her confession
-the later video
I think its POSSIBLE to dispute these.

I think it's likely that he is involved. However, I hope LE is also pursuing other avenues as well.

[Mazama]

AND that had it not been for TLM abducting Tori, maybe Tori would still be alive and well.

Or maybe because she is just 18 and did have a rotten childhood (drugs, alcohol, mother admits TLM was molested etc) that she was easily coerced/convinced to lure Victoria and is now so freaking scared that she is singing out of pure remorse, uncertainty and intimidation?

*waiting for tomatoes to be thrown*

[Mazama]

I know this is not going to be popular, but just hear/read me out...

ITA that they are both suspect but there are many things that point concretely to TLM
-the video
-the neighbors
-the composite
-her confession
There is not a doubt in my mind that she is involved.

There are only two things pointing to MR
-her confession
-the later video
I think its POSSIBLE to dispute these.

I think it's likely that he is involved. However, I hope LE is also pursuing other avenues as well.

Well, they have his car and he is still in jail, charged with murder so that says something too.

[butterfly1978]

Do we post possablities here or in the rumor thread?

[butterfly1978]

Or maybe because she is just 18 and did have a rotten childhood (drugs, alcohol, mother admits TLM was molested etc) that she was easily coerced/convinced to lure Victoria and is now so freaking scared that she is singing out of pure remorse, uncertainty and intimidation?

*waiting for tomatoes to be thrown*
This is what I say to Terri LYNN about her "terrible childhood" :boohoo:

She really don't want to her about mine, and I am a 30 year old mother of 3 and would never think about doing what she has done!

[Mazama]

This is what I say to Terri LYNN about her "terrible childhood" :boohoo:

She really don't want to her about mine, and I am a 30 year old mother of 3 and would never think about doing what she has done!

Don't get me wrong...I am not excusing her of what she is accused of.

I am merely trying to shed light on a possible reason she made the choices she did.

There's so much more that could be covered here...

[CarrieBean]

I know this is not going to be popular, but just hear/read me out...

ITA that they are both suspect but there are many things that point concretely to TLM
-the video
-the neighbors
-the composite
-her confession
There is not a doubt in my mind that she is involved.

There are only two things pointing to MR
-her confession
-the later video
I think its POSSIBLE to dispute these.

I think it's likely that he is involved. However, I hope LE is also pursuing other avenues as well.

I can't recall which article I read it in, and not sure how accurate it was, but I read somewhere that TLM brought Tori to MR waiting in a car.

[CarrieBean]

This is what I say to Terri LYNN about her "terrible childhood" :boohoo:

She really don't want to her about mine, and I am a 30 year old mother of 3 and would never think about doing what she has done!

I agree. There is a lot more to people like this than their upbringing.

[ella's mom]

I want to throw up everytime I read something that says TLM is "helping" LE.

LE wouldn't need her "help" if she didn't "help" MR find a little girl, "help" murder (possibly) a little girl, "help" dispose of a little girl's body, "help" a molester and murderer (alledgedly) get out of town.

If she wanted to be so "helpful" she should have contacted LE when she found out he wanted a little girl.

In my opinion she could care less about "helping". The lawyer is telling her to do so, so that it looks better for her defense.

JMO

[wishingtorihome]

I can't recall which article I read it in, and not sure how accurate it was, but I read somewhere that TLM brought Tori to MR waiting in a car.

CarrieBean - The article about TLM bringing Tori to MR's waiting car was in today's Globe & Mail article by Christie Blatchford. (segment below).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It is alleged that Ms. McClintic was loitering outside Oliver Stephens Public School that day, where Tori was in Grade 3, as the dismissal bell rang.

The teenager allegedly was on a specific mission to grab a child for Mr. Rafferty, with Tori being simply the first available youngster she spotted.

Ms. McClintic is alleged to have led the little girl to her boyfriend, who was waiting nearby in the same car shortly afterwards caught on the videotape.

The vehicle is now in police hands and will be subjected to a painstaking search, with officers looking for any forensic evidence – from hair to fibres to DNA – of Tori's presence.

Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl.

[LuckyPenny]

CarrieBean - The article about TLM bringing Tori to MR's waiting car was in today's Globe & Mail article by Christie Blatchford. (segment below).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It is alleged that Ms. McClintic was loitering outside Oliver Stephens Public School that day, where Tori was in Grade 3, as the dismissal bell rang.

The teenager allegedly was on a specific mission to grab a child for Mr. Rafferty, with Tori being simply the first available youngster she spotted.

Ms. McClintic is alleged to have led the little girl to her boyfriend, who was waiting nearby in the same car shortly afterwards caught on the videotape.

The vehicle is now in police hands and will be subjected to a painstaking search, with officers looking for any forensic evidence – from hair to fibres to DNA – of Tori's presence.

Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl.

I'm assuming this is what her 2 classmates saw then? This is just horrific.

[LuckyPenny]

Anyone have a link to Tara speaking to the media at 3pm today?

[another nosey mom]

CarrieBean - The article about TLM bringing Tori to MR's waiting car was in today's Globe & Mail article by Christie Blatchford. (segment below).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It is alleged that Ms. McClintic was loitering outside Oliver Stephens Public School that day, where Tori was in Grade 3, as the dismissal bell rang.

The teenager allegedly was on a specific mission to grab a child for Mr. Rafferty, with Tori being simply the first available youngster she spotted.

Ms. McClintic is alleged to have led the little girl to her boyfriend, who was waiting nearby in the same car shortly afterwards caught on the videotape.

The vehicle is now in police hands and will be subjected to a painstaking search, with officers looking for any forensic evidence – from hair to fibres to DNA – of Tori's presence.

Ms. McClintic has told police that she walked a distance away from the car when Mr. Rafferty allegedly assaulted the little girl.

yes, and apparantly Ms.Mc was lurking around the school on other days earlier, which makes me sick that no one saw this and asked her what she was doing there????

[Mazama]

I'm sure my posts anger several out there but they are my opinions.

To direct sooo much anger at TLM IMO is like saying MR had only a small part in this awful scenario.

As far as I am concerned, a 28 year old man easily influenced a 18 year old girl (who obviously had low self esteem) into doing his dirty deed. He is most likely the mastermind IMO. They are both disgusting...equally in my mind.

[jaycee]

Anyone have a link to Tara speaking to the media at 3pm today?http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090521/Tori_search_090522/20090522/?hub=TorontoNewHome

[Mazama]

yes, and apparantly Ms.Mc was lurking around the school on other days earlier, which makes me sick that no one saw this and asked her what she was doing there????

Unfortunately an 18 year old girl would not stand out...remember there is a high school there. :mad:

[CarrieBean]

I'm sure my posts anger several out there but they are my opinions.

To direct sooo much anger at TLM IMO is like saying MR had only a small part in this awful scenario.

As far as I am concerned, a 28 year old man easily influenced a 18 year old girl (who obviously had low self esteem) into doing his dirty deed. He is most likely the mastermind IMO. They are both disgusting...equally in my mind.

I agree. I think there is more anger toward TLM because at this point we have more info on her.

But I believe any normal 18 yr old girl, no matter how low her self esteem, could never be influenced to commit an act like she did. Her part of this is totally on her.

As far as their ages go, any 28 yr old man who would date an 18 year old has something wrong with him.

[PepperFritz]

I know people will say well the police would have had to had something concrete to lay a murder charge, but perhaps with all of the miscue's that there seems to be by LE, they took her word for it???

That would go against all established police-procedure rules and practices. Plus, under the law, an indictment for first-degree murder cannot be made on the basis of an uncorroborated confession alone. Clearly, LE knows something we do not, and we'll just have to wait to find out what it is.

[PepperFritz]

There are only two things pointing to MR
-her confession
-the later video



But you simply don't know what other evidence LE has that points to MR that they are not yet disclosing to the public. The Canadian legal system is much more circumspect and cautious than the U.S. one about preventing the possibility of screwing up their case against an accused, by letting out information that should properly be saved for the courtroom.

In Canada, the importance of maintaining the integrity of the prosecution against an accused is given greater weight than "the public's right to know". In the U.S. it tends to lean more in the other direction.

[butterfly1978]

As many know an Amber Alert was not issued for Tori Stafford for many days after she went missing. This has happened on several occasions here in the states as well. PLEASE take a few seconds and thats really all it takes and sign this petition to have the criteria for the Amber Alert changed.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/p...ion-sign.cgi?vict888

[Mazama]

I agree. I think there is more anger toward TLM because at this point we have more info on her.
I agree.

But I believe any normal 18 yr old girl, no matter how low her self esteem, could never be influenced to commit an act like she did. Her part of this is totally on her.
Key word being normal which I don't think she is...I truly believe she did this to please him and others have done worse.

As far as their ages go, any 28 yr old man who would date an 18 year old has something wrong with him.
Can't agree there...the age has nothing to do with unhealthy minds.

Respectfully, My responses are in bold red.

[jaycee]

Prime Minister Harper says Woodstock girl's death 'breaks your heart'

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/22/harper-stafford.html

[sillybilly]

Hey God ... would You please help them find Tori today. Her precious little spirit needs to be home where people care, and her family and the world needs her back. Thank You.

[Paintr]

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34786.aspx

Tara McDonald came out of her Woodstock home to face the press Friday, a task she's performed many times over the past six weeks. But unlike her past efforts, designed to keep the story of her missing daughter Tori Stafford alive, this time was different.

She now knows the eight-year-old with the beautiful smile will never be coming home.

Wearing sunglasses to hide her eyes, the distraught mother emerged to talk about the child she lost, the suspects accused of the crime, and her own time in the glare of police suspicions

[Mazama]

Interesting read:

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/22/9541586.html

Oxycodone probe...

[S_A_S]

This just in ;

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/22/9541586.html

[girlfriday]

Did anyone catch today's presser by Tara (May 22)

http://www.livestream.com/lfpress

She mentions that Carol and Terri-Lynne had their furniture in storage ... and then went on to say the storage unit is owned by one of her friends uncle so when Tara had her moving truck the day she moved into her current home she offered to get the McClintic's stuff out of storage...(wow...that's an amazingly nice gesture of 'acquaintance' especially since she didn't think too highly of Carol)... *confuzzled*

BUT...my MAJOR POINT>>>I sure hope the LE is checking out that storage unit NOW!

[msfittz]

But you simply don't know what other evidence LE has that points to MR that they are not yet disclosing to the public. The Canadian legal system is much more circumspect and cautious than the U.S. one about preventing the possibility of screwing up their case against an accused, by letting out information that should properly be saved for the courtroom.

In Canada, the importance of maintaining the integrity of the prosecution against an accused is given greater weight than "the public's right to know". In the U.S. it tends to lean more in the other direction.

You're absolutely right. I think there is a lot that we don't know yet. I also think there is a lot LE doesn't know yet - and won't until poor Tori is found, and other forensics are back.

IMO this is not a clean case. The sketchy connections between families, who knows who how, the drugs, the dogs, the storage space and moving vans, Daryn talking about Terri and the hair dye...I think it creates room for something more complicated than what WE know.

I agree with what I think you're saying - justice is way more important than our right to know.

[jaycee]

Cops zero in on suspicious vehicle

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/2009/05/22/9541781.html

[wubblewobble]

CP24 just showed pics of the car used in the abduction.
I saw it on tv so I don't have a link but they said it was a 2003 Honda four door, blue with black spray paint over parts.



I'm guessing it's the blue car shown in MR's photos but they tried to paint it black?

FOUND A LINK!
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090522/090522_terror_setence/20090522/?hub=CP24Home

[taz_gem]

THe police mention the Home Depot in their latest news....I wonder if the Home Depot has security cameras? I know our local HD does.
THey mention that the blue car may have been seen at HD in the late hours of April 8... presumably with Tori in the car??
I hope someone remembers something..

[brighidin]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/638766
some of this is stuff we've already read, but I agree with TM about TLM.

I also think that TLM's lawyer is getting on my nerves! This is what the lawyer had to say about Terri: "This morning she was feeling much better and looking forward to the day, was happy with the extension of the (judge's order permitting her to assist in the search) in order to continue to try to help."

Feeling better?! Ugh.

[taz_gem]

I'm sure TLM's lawyer is just saying what has to be said as a defence lawyer. SHe is probably well aware that her comments make us all want to puke.

Wonder how well the seat belts work in a 'chopper?

...I'm just sayin....

[taz_gem]

MR's little display of crying and saying 'I didn't do anything' or whatever it was is just disgusting. I don't believe him for a second. So typical...how many times have we seen the big tough guy, the bully, the sociopath etc blubber like babies when they get caught. They're sorry all right...sorry that they didn't get away with their behaviour longer!!! Sorry they got caught!! ...but never really sorry for their victims....
:furious:

[nursebeeme]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/638766
some of this is stuff we've already read, but I agree with TM about TLM.

I also think that TLM's lawyer is getting on my nerves! This is what the lawyer had to say about Terri: "This morning she was feeling much better and looking forward to the day, was happy with the extension of the (judge's order permitting her to assist in the search) in order to continue to try to help."

Feeling better?! Ugh.I completely agree! To feel is to be alive. Tori most likely will never get to "feel" again... What a sick and selfish thing for her to express at a time like this.

[captaincanada]

Edited: inappropriate

[nursemommy]

Ok I have posted a couple of times but I'm going to do it again...Up until I saw that spray painted honda civic the same vehicle michael had in his personal pics I have no doubt he's just as involved as she is...this whole case is sick...poor tori

[ChaChaCha]

Ok I have posted a couple of times but I'm going to do it again...Up until I saw that spray painted honda civic the same vehicle michael had in his personal pics I have no doubt he's just as involved as she is...this whole case is sick...poor tori

Yup, and if he was clever enough to try to diguise his car, then he may have been sly enough to move Tori to a different location after TLM went to the slammer...

[nursemommy]

Yup, and if he was clever enough to try to diguise his car, then he may have been sly enough to move Tori to a different location after TLM went to the slammer...
Reply With Quote


ABSOLUTELY; once terri-lynn went to jail he moved tori do you think he wouldn't think she would rat him out, please shes a drug user they think of themselves, him included thats why she can't find the body

[gogrannypop]

Welcome taz~

Isn't that the truth? It also happens with the tough gangbangers. They blat like babies. :chicken:

[taz_gem]

here's a link about Home Depot's security system. It doesn't say specifically if the camera's also cover the exterior, but I would assume they would at least have some cameras to cover the outside of their stores. It sounds like they have a top of the line system and are used to sharing information with the police where crimes are involved.
http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/4297425-1.html

hope the link works 'cuz I am not much of a techie!

[ChaChaCha]

here's a link about Home Depot's security system. It doesn't say specifically if the camera's also cover the exterior, but I would assume they would at least have some cameras to cover the outside of their stores. It sounds like they have a top of the line system and are used to sharing information with the police where crimes are involved.
http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/4297425-1.html

hope the link works 'cuz I am not much of a techie!

Interesting... can anyone give the location of the Home Depot in relation to the areas being searched?

Don't they sell black automotive spray paint at the Depot??? And other stuff too.....Hmmmm... TLM is lucky that she didn't end up dead too...