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SuziQ
05-22-2009, 09:55 AM
Continue here.

Thread One:


Police: 3 Found Dead in Illinois Home - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thread Two:


Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thread Three:


Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thread Four:


Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thread Five:

Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

adnoid
05-22-2009, 09:59 AM
I've been thinking about this and using Adnoid's post to go with it. I think that it is very possible this is what CC did. It is also very possible that the girlfriend had absolutely no idea what was going on and believed *everything* that CC told her. Hence, the wedding invitations. He lied to her. Used her to stroke his own cowardly and weak self esteem/ego.

I don't think this woman knew what was going on the Coleman homefront. Perhaps bits and pieces that CC told her, but not the honest truth. Until more information comes to light, factual information, I am going to patiently wait before I get into judgment mode regarding her.

imho

It's entirely possible CC painted himself into a corner - promising the gal in Florida that it was over with his wife, they were splitting up, etc. Then she orders invitations and it all comes crashing down on him.

One way to resolve it would be to tell the truth, of course.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 10:11 AM
It's entirely possible CC painted himself into a corner - promising the gal in Florida that it was over with his wife, they were splitting up, etc. Then she orders invitations and it all comes crashing down on him.

One way to resolve it would be to tell the truth, of course.

Telling the truth is always the best of choice someone should make. However, I have a feeling that we will find CC was pathological in this area. Built himself up in self importance, etc. I do agree, though. It all caught up with him and it did come crashing down. Horrifically, Sheri, Gavin, and Garett paid with their innocent lives. What an s.o.b.

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 10:16 AM
It's entirely possible CC painted himself into a corner - promising the gal in Florida that it was over with his wife, they were splitting up, etc. Then she orders invitations and it all comes crashing down on him.

One way to resolve it would be to tell the truth, of course.

This was my thought when I heard about the invites. Guys like this definitely do not react well to being cornered. Mark Hacking felt that Lori was going to make his world come crashing down by exposing him for the liar he was. He just couldn't handle that. I guess in their minds it's better to kill someone than to face the humiliation and embarrasement of being outed.

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 10:18 AM
Loose thoughts after catching up reading.

Wedding invitations:
Do we have a source, rumor or otherwise for the wedding invitations. The last thread contained something about it from a "comment board" -- but I am unaware if this has been responsibly backed or if it is just one loose rumor from one person on a comment board. Can we get any type of responsible, even rumor, source for this?

Clothing and spray paint:
In the early videos (first day of crime), there was activity at the passenger side of Chris' vehicle, I remember the video and see it reflected in my mind. I kept thinking -- what is happening there. I see now we are revisiting this, and if I am correct in my memory, it seems as if something was being lifted off of the floor on the passenger side and handed to someone else. Was it a gym bag? [Does anyone have a link to that exact video?]

What clothes did Chris leave in that AM? Might this have been captured in a video of him leaving the house, tract or entering the gym? Was a shirt pulled off while he was driving away and thrown into the road median? Did he put another on? OR was there a shirt that was on Chris when he entered the gym that was not found in the gym bag when he returned home? Why would that be? IF there were a shirt with "paint speckles" ever in that bag, could those paint speckles be found in that bag? Surely after the bodies were found -- he didn't go fiddle with that gym bag again did he? There were neighbors watching from across the street who saw him enter the house and come out, surely they reported his steps upon that exit?

Shower...was there any sign that Chris had a shower before he left the house? Why would he shower there if he was going to the gym to work out and would probably shower there?

Marks to Chris' body (if it was examined not long after the murder):
Neighbors saw him flailing, rolling, did they see him hitting his face, head -- scratching it, scratching his arms and hands?

Was there any sign in that house that a paint thinner or any such thing was used to remove paint speckles, rags with paint thinner etc? How about in the neighbor's trash cans? Is there water based spray paint? How about the dampness that has been rumored in the basement -- signs of washing off paint speckles?

W

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 10:19 AM
Good morning all!

Read thru last nite's postings & have a couple of things to add.

* re: "JMM is a she-devil" message on the wall -- I read those comments @ the P-D and this is another case of a poster being sarcastic
* Melly's comments re: CC's saying he wanted cats....I thought the same thing when I saw the mention of 'cats' twice, and not dogs given his MP/K-9 cop background...then I thought 'Oh yeah...what my b/f said in his crude guy way'....let's just say there's another word for cat & it's not kitty....this fits in with CC wanting his new life of freedom to do as he wants which is my b/f's theory.

OK - all done for now!!

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 10:26 AM
I'm responding to the below post (respectfully snipped) from the last thread. You know, CC could have pulled a Brad Cooper and ran out after he killed his family and bought the red paint. Are the Walmart's there open 24 hours like they are here?

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I doubt Sheri knew anything until the end. That likely what caused a fight that resulted in her death. It just was not CC's timing. He might have bought the red spray paint months ago.

waterlooinspector
05-22-2009, 10:30 AM
I'm responding to the below post (respectfully snipped) from the last thread. You know, CC could have pulled a Brad Cooper and ran out after he killed his family and bought the red paint. Are the Walmart's there open 24 hours like they are here?

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I doubt Sheri knew anything until the end. That likely what caused a fight that resulted in her death. It just was not CC's timing. He might have bought the red spray paint months ago.


I thought of that too, Suzi. The Walmart on Telegraph is open 24 hours...and you can make it in 5 minutes....at that time of night.

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 10:38 AM
I guess if the invites were dated for 2010, then the wedding wasn't imminent, backing CC into a corner.

If the rumor is true that SC and CC were seperated, I wonder if CC simply realized how much a divorce was going to cost him?

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 10:43 AM
Resourcing...

My earliest resource to wedding invitations is this:

From Opinion8ed, Post #773

>>Sources tell me he had her over to that other house in St Louis many times and she already had the wedding invitations ordered. <<

Opinion8ed, can you help us with the above? Were your sources people to whom you spoke but cannot reveal, but feel that they are trustworthy? Or ?

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 11:10 AM
Hello SuziQ,

Thanks for the new thread... You started this whole set of threads, thanks -- wanted to recognize you :)

You wrote:
>>If the rumor is true that SC and CC were seperated, I wonder if CC simply realized how much a divorce was going to cost him? <<

True enough, but as one of our posters said (and I wish I could recall who first said it to recognize their thoughts), if he were setting up a murder, a divorce would not be in his list of costs.

Girlygirl1
05-22-2009, 11:11 AM
Anyone know what JMM's beliefs are about divorce? could that have factored?

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 11:14 AM
Resourcing...

My earliest resource to wedding invitations is this:

From Opinion8ed, Post #773 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3773866&postcount=773)

>>Sources tell me he had her over to that other house in St Louis many times and she already had the wedding invitations ordered. <<

Opinion8ed, can you help us with the above? Were your sources people to whom you spoke but cannot reveal, but feel that they are trustworthy? Or ?

W
They have always been trustworthy IMO and yes I spoke with them,but can not reveal my sources. Dates of invitations were not mentioned.

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 11:25 AM
Hello SuziQ,

Thanks for the new thread... You started this whole set of threads, thanks -- wanted to recognize you :)

You wrote:
>>If the rumor is true that SC and CC were seperated, I wonder if CC simply realized how much a divorce was going to cost him? <<

True enough, but as one of our posters said (and I wish I could recall who first said it to recognize their thoughts), if he were setting up a murder, a divorce would not be in his list of costs.

Thanks! :blushing:

I'm thinking the cost of property division, child support, alimony, etc, of the divorce could have been the reason for setting up the murder. I think child support and alimony on a 100K salary would have taken a pretty good chunk of CC's paycheck.

I wish we knew what was behind SC's removal from the deed of the house. If she had no knowledge, that tells me CC was going to try to screw her over in a property settlement. Afterall, it worked out great for his brother. His brother may have given him advice and helped him.

And can you imagine how pissed off SC would have been and how screwed over CC would be, if SC discovered her name was taken off the house without her knowledge? Takes me to the argument at 3am.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 11:27 AM
The restauant that was mentioned in an earlier post was the Nite Hawk Cafe. Was a great place and well known. When they were making the movie "In The Heat Of The Night" Dustin Hoffman and others frequented it. Know this place well. Went thru a few more owners before the church started to use it. It was on the "Crow Flight" when Rt. 3 was booming in Southern Illinois. Interstate 55 came into focus and much was lost in the town with the major traffic being diverted.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 11:29 AM
Thanks! :blushing:

I'm thinking the cost of property division, child support, alimony, etc, of the divorce could have been the reason for setting up the murder. I think child support and alimony on a 100K salary would have taken a pretty good chunk of CC's paycheck.

I wish we knew what was behind SC's removal from the deed of the house. If she had no knowledge, that tells me CC was going to try to screw her over in a property settlement. Afterall, it worked out great for his brother. His brother may have given him advice and helped him.

And can you imagine how pissed off SC would have been and how screwed over CC would be, if SC discovered her name was taken off the house without her knowledge? Takes me to the argument at 3am.

Does anyone from Monroe County happen to know when the property tax bills are/were sent out? This would be addressed to name(s) listed on the deed.

swa
05-22-2009, 11:36 AM
So . . . is the new wedding still on?

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 11:40 AM
Just thinking about it...

Chris had resources about divorce costs (financial and otherwise), you can almost count on it... Also, if there is any truth to the rumor that his brother had made money (I believe that this was rumored to be in financial investments) then ditched his wife, cleaning out anything that she might have otherwise had accounted to her first, then marrying his next woman within a few weeks after divorce -- well he had picked some brains on some things.

I might render a guess that Chris pretty well knew the timing he wanted for escape to his new life, his new tormenting and begging hunger... But how did he plan for that life to be?

He probably wanted his new life immediately, but was struggling against the timing it would take to make it all happen. If he got sucked into a huge lust thing and/or distorted love thing, these things can dig deeply into your flesh/soul -- erasing all sensibility, overcoming you with obsession. He might have been getting nearly desperate to satisfy that which was going on in him.

It would be interesting to find out when Chris and Sheri's friend (the one who betrayed her by seducing Chris, aka Miss Mistress) began cavorting. We know that the so-called threats started at X time period (we have rumors of 9 to 6 months ago.) When did the myriad changes begin in connection to this (Sheri's removing her name off the deed, possible purchase of extra insurance, Sheri maybe taking on a job; house cleaning, waitress, modeling etc.)

Bottomline -- it appears that at some point in time Chris started creating a "threat" scenario. Why? Was this purely to setup a murder? OR was he thinking he could get Sheri and the boys to move to another locale so that they would stay there, he would visit intermittently, but he could cavort at the love shack near his company's home base?

But wait...this whole wedding invitation thing throws a WHOLE different light on the situation, if there is any truth to it. IF there were wedding invitations, THEN it would seem that the threats had one, and only one purpose -- to set up a murder.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 11:51 AM
Does anyone from Monroe County happen to know when the property tax bills are/were sent out? This would be addressed to name(s) listed on the deed.

Er scratch that idea, I called the MC Treasurer's office and learned that the tax bills won't be sent out till July.

SleuthyMama
05-22-2009, 11:51 AM
They have always been trustworthy IMO and yes I spoke with them,but can not reveal my sources. Dates of invitations were not mentioned.

Opinion8ed, I am apologizing in advance if you've already answered way too many question on this but is it at all possible that the comment regarding the wedding invitations could have been sarcastic? As in he and the mistress have spent so much time together or are so tight that she's already ordered invites? I ask because I have that kind of sense of humor and can see myself making a comment like that if I was close to a case like this.

If it was made in all seriousness then I'm sorry to bug ya.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 11:52 AM
Just thinking about it...

Chris had resources about divorce costs (financial and otherwise), you can almost count on it... Also, if there is any truth to the rumor that his brother had made money (I believe that this was rumored to be in financial investments) then ditched his wife, cleaning out anything that she might have otherwise had accounted to her first, then marrying his next woman within a few weeks after divorce -- well he had picked some brains on some things.

I might render a guess that Chris pretty well knew the timing he wanted for escape to his new life, his new tormenting and begging hunger... But how did he plan for that life to be?

He probably wanted his new life immediately, but was struggling against the timing it would take to make it all happen. If he got sucked into a huge lust thing and/or distorted love thing, these things can dig deeply into your flesh/soul -- erasing all sensibility, overcoming you with obsession. He might have been getting nearly desperate to satisfy that which was going on in him.

It would be interesting to find out when Chris and Sheri's friend (the one who betrayed her by seducing Chris, aka Miss Mistress) began cavorting. We know that the so-called threats started at X time period (we have rumors of 9 to 6 months ago.) When did the myriad changes begin in connection to this (Sheri's removing her name off the deed, possible purchase of extra insurance, Sheri maybe taking on a job; house cleaning, waitress, modeling etc.)

Bottomline -- it appears that at some point in time Chris started creating a "threat" scenario. Why? Was this purely to setup a murder? OR was he thinking he could get Sheri and the boys to move to another locale so that they would stay there, he would visit intermittently, but he could cavort at the love shack near his company's home base?

But wait...this whole wedding invitation thing throws a WHOLE different light on the situation, if there is any truth to it. IF there were wedding invitations, THEN it would seem that the threats had one, and only one purpose -- to set up a murder.

Grapevine Rumor has it RC told KC to remove his soon to be ex from the deed and take the finances,then RC went south and married KC and the other girl.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 11:54 AM
Opinion8ed, I am apologizing in advance if you've already answered way too many question on this but is it at all possible that the comment regarding the wedding invitations could have been sarcastic? As in he and the mistress have spent so much time together or are so tight that she's already ordered invites? I ask because I have that kind of sense of humor and can see myself making a comment like that if I was close to a case like this.

If it was made in all seriousness then I'm sorry to bug ya.

No this was given to me as one of many details in a serious mode.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 11:55 AM
Grapevine Rumor has it RC told KC to remove his soon to be ex from the deed and take the finances,then RC went south and married KC and the other girl.


:shocked2:

ETA: I wonder if it's "normal" in this family to have a woman on the side.

Ginny
05-22-2009, 11:55 AM
Anyone know what JMM's beliefs are about divorce? could that have factored?


I could be wrong here but I believe JMM did not "allow" her employees to divorce while employed.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 11:58 AM
:shocked2:

ETA: I wonder if it's "normal" in this family to have a woman on the side.

Clarifying KC was one of CC's brothers.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 11:58 AM
I could be wrong here but I believe JMM did not "allow" her employees to divorce while employed.

That is what I have heard. The only exception is if they show they are the injured party, ie abandoned, fought the divorce etc.

waterlooinspector
05-22-2009, 12:00 PM
So . . . is the new wedding still on?


If Ms. Motive had a hand in planning the murders....maybe it could be arranged....

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 12:01 PM
Grapevine Rumor has it RC told KC to remove his soon to be ex from the deed and take the finances,then RC went south and married KC and the other girl.


Whoa. I wonder if KC's exwife just took this - I would think if she had a good attorney she wouldn't have lost it all.

And if RC did this, then he has totally proven himself to be a conman and liar. This cannot possibly be proper actions for a self proclaimed Christian and self proclaimed man of God/the cloth.

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Hello Opinion8ed,

You wrote:
>>Grapevine Rumor has it RC told KC to remove his soon to be ex from the deed and take the finances,then RC went south and married KC and the other girl.<<

If I am getting what you are saying correctly, father Coleman advised one son to have his wife's name removed from the deed, then grab the finances and move on. IF anyone or any more can ever say that such advice was given to them by father Coleman, this seems that it could be very important in trial. Steps to disconnecting a spouse -- but ripping off a spouse and moving and ripping off a spouse and murdering are two different things.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 12:05 PM
Clarifying KC was one of CC's brothers.

I understood it correctly, O....my point was that if RC married KC & the new woman - and IIRC it was within a few weeks after KC's divorce finalized -- that perhaps RC is accepting of a man with a mistress....not to mention, other evangelical preachers in the recent past have been outed for their sexual transgressions.

Again, was just a thought I had & thinking out loud here because it's not uncommon that certain behaviors can be passed down thru generations as acceptable way of life (such as affairs or abuse).

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:05 PM
Whoa. I wonder if KC's exwife just took this - I would think if she had a good attorney she wouldn't have lost it all.

And if RC did this, then he has totally proven himself to be a conman and liar. This cannot possibly be proper actions for a self proclaimed Christian and self proclaimed man of God/the cloth.

I'm sure RC was giving some fatherly advice to a son, think that is a common practice between parents and children.

As for the ex wife, possibly she was happy to do it just to get out of the marriage.Who knows what she put up with as well. JMO

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:07 PM
I understood it correctly, O....my point was that if RC married KC & the new woman - and IIRC it was within a few weeks after KC's divorce finalized -- that perhaps RC is accepting of a man with a mistress....not to mention, other evangelical preachers in the recent past have been outed for their sexual transgressions.

Again, was just a thought I had & thinking out loud here because it's not uncommon that certain behaviors can be passed down thru generations as acceptable way of life (such as affairs or abuse).

Double Standards is all it is. I heard he wouldn't marry anyone if they were expecting,before marriage,yet he will marry his own. JMO

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 12:09 PM
I'm sure RC was giving some fatherly advice to a son, think that is a common practice between parents and children.

As for the ex wife, possibly she was happy to do it just to get out of the marriage.Who knows what she put up with as well. JMO

Maybe so, but, I think, rightly or wrongly, ministers, etc are held to a higher standard than the laity.

Unless sealed by the court, divorce judgments, etc should be public record. Someone would probably have to personally go into the courthouse and ask for under FOI act. Just an idea.

Girlygirl1
05-22-2009, 12:10 PM
I could be wrong here but I believe JMM did not "allow" her employees to divorce while employed.


see, if that is, in fact, the case, then that's HUGE! he doesn't want to lose he cushy high-paid job, but doesn't want to stay married to Sheri when he want to marry the girlfriend. So how does he get out of his marriage without breaking the "rules" of JMM...

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Here is contact information for Nick Pistor, the Post Reporter:

"Nicholas J.C. Pistor St. Louis Post-Dispatch | Reporter900 N. Tucker Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63101 email: npistor@post-dispatch.com(cell) 314.302.6824"

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:24 PM
Maybe so, but, I think, rightly or wrongly, ministers, etc are held to a higher standard than the laity.

Unless sealed by the court, divorce judgments, etc should be public record. Someone would probably have to personally go into the courthouse and ask for under FOI act. Just an idea.

I disagree with divorce judgements being public record. That would be invasion of privacy. Now if there were legal circumstances then yes they could be made available to certain individuals.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:28 PM
Not to change the subject, but Fox news just said they would be showing Drew Peterson in court in a few minutes.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 12:28 PM
I disagree with divorce judgements being public record. That would be invasion of privacy. Now if there were legal circumstances then yes they could be made available to certain individuals.


I disagree. I think barring certain circumstances, all court documents should be public record and open. I think that transparency is one of the things that makes our system good.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 12:28 PM
FWIW, I do not believe (if the wedding invites are *totally true, which is possible) that the "fiancee" would be so stupid to plan a wedding if she was involved in this triple murder. If she planned along with CC, why would she implicate herself where CC tried his very best to make it look like a stalker stranger??? Makes no sense, imho.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 12:31 PM
I disagree with divorce judgements being public record. That would be invasion of privacy. Now if there were legal circumstances then yes they could be made available to certain individuals.

Unfortunately, divorce judgements are public record. Believe me, found mine accidently online (published in newspaper as well). You'd be surprised how much truly is available to the public. One of those harsh lessons, yet again, learned.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 12:35 PM
Here is contact information for Nick Pistor, the Post Reporter:

"Nicholas J.C. Pistor St. Louis Post-Dispatch | Reporter900 N. Tucker Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63101 email: npistor@post-dispatch.com(cell) 314.302.6824"Thanks~ I looked for that last night all over their website!

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 12:36 PM
Hello Opinion8ed,

You wrote:
>>I'm sure RC was giving some fatherly advice to a son, think that is a common practice between parents and children.<<

Thanks for the information you have been sharing... As per the above, our advice to our son after he got out of the hospital (8 days of fighting for his life due to a disease that hit him and almost took his life), and after he returned home only to have his wife leave him and their two children the next day so that she could be with her boyfriend/drug supplier was...

1. Get a legal separation to protect yourself (she could go berzerk using the family finances and wipe you and the children out, plus put you in debt) & get custody of the children she has abandoned

2. Get us every bit of financial paperwork you have so that we can start crunching numbers for you, and such that you can offer an equitable split with all numbers clearly on the table

As much as all of us, emotionally, and our son (and we who were supporting him while he was trying to survive and stay well to take care of his children), might have felt like any woman (person) who could do what she did deserved nothing, there are community property laws.

Our son wanted to make sure that finances were split equitably, we agreed. He needed to move on to a.) safe guarding his life and healing so that b.) he could care for the most precious commodities -- two little children abandoned by an alcoholic, drug addicted mother who had gone off the deep end.

I do not know the circumstances of the father/son/wife -- I only know that I could never have counseled my son to be anything less than equitable and just get away from the problem before it destroyed more lives.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 12:41 PM
They have always been trustworthy IMO and yes I spoke with them,but can not reveal my sources. Dates of invitations were not mentioned.The date is early 2010 according to Pres (the source is CC's family on confirmation of the invitations and date).

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:41 PM
FWIW, I do not believe (if the wedding invites are *totally true, which is possible) that the "fiancee" would be so stupid to plan a wedding if she was involved in this triple murder. If she planned along with CC, why would she implicate herself where CC tried his very best to make it look like a stalker stranger??? Makes no sense, imho.

IMO I don't think the Floridagal knew anything about his motives. I think she was given a totally different route of thinking. As for her knowing he was still married,sure she did. I'm not saying she wasn't into the money and all. Who knows what he filled her head with,but I doubt she was privy to his plans of homicide. I may be wrong, there are alot of people out there that do these things...but as of right now I'm sittin on this one until I hear more.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:46 PM
Hello Opinion8ed,

You wrote:
>>I'm sure RC was giving some fatherly advice to a son, think that is a common practice between parents and children.<<

Thanks for the information you have been sharing... As per the above, our advice to our son after he got out of the hospital (8 days of fighting for his life due to a disease that hit him and almost took his life), and after he returned home only to have his wife leave him and their two children the next day so that she could be with her boyfriend/drug supplier was...

1. Get a legal separation to protect yourself (she could go berzerk using the family finances and wipe you and the children out, plus put you in debt) & get custody of the children she has abandoned

2. Get us every bit of financial paperwork you have so that we can start crunching numbers for you, and such that you can offer an equitable split with all numbers clearly on the table

As much as all of us, emotionally, and our son (and we who were supporting him while he was trying to survive and stay well to take care of his children), might have felt like any woman (person) who could do what she did deserved nothing, there are community property laws.

Our son wanted to make sure that finances were split equitably, we agreed. He needed to move on to a.) safe guarding his life and healing so that b.) he could care for the most precious commodities -- two little children abandoned by an alcoholic, drug addicted mother who had gone off the deep end.

I do not know the circumstances of the father/son/wife -- I only know that I could never have counseled my son to be anything less than equitable and just get away from the problem before it destroyed more lives.

We all wonder what we would do if we were in those circumstances...terrible thing... and so sorry for your family's problems.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 12:49 PM
Maybe the elder RC and JM's advice was taken literally by Chris (and totally wrong in his warped mind). He may have been trying to follow it to the letter: No divorce. Take possession of everything. Marry the Mistress to make an "honest" woman of her.

waterlooinspector
05-22-2009, 12:52 PM
IMO I don't think the Floridagal knew anything about his motives. I think she was given a totally different route of thinking. As for her knowing he was still married,sure she did. I'm not saying she wasn't into the money and all. Who knows what he filled her head with,but I doubt she was privy to his plans of homicide. I may be wrong, there are alot of people out there that do these things...but as of right now I'm sittin on this one until I hear more.

If the allegations are true about printing up wedding invitations, dated and what-not....nothing to me would be surprising about what she knew about the murders.

You just shake your head in amazement in how diabolical these so called Christians could be. To reason in your mind that I will loose my 100K job if I get divorced...but where does proper biblical reasoning come into play about murdering your own children...

What a twisted set of values and morality

pres101
05-22-2009, 12:53 PM
Grapevine Rumor has it RC told KC to remove his soon to be ex from the deed and take the finances,then RC went south and married KC and the other girl.

That is exactly what happened.

Kimmer
05-22-2009, 12:54 PM
I have a question???Where did CC and his family go to church at?? Did they go to CC's fathers church or to his employers church??

I am thinking that CC thought once his family was dead he would be seen as the poor widower who lost his family, and then once he fell into the arms of another woman who had been friends with his deceased wife, people would think that grief had brought them together and the other thing I do not think that CC had planned on was the MCS I think he thought this would all be handled by his small town police and that there was no way he would get caught, with the background steeped in religion with his own family and his employer, I think he thought that they would never look at him as the murderer...

Am I ever happy he was wrong all the way around..

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 12:54 PM
I disagree. I think barring certain circumstances, all court documents should be public record and open. I think that transparency is one of the things that makes our system good.I agree. If more people would look at how the ex and the children were treated before and during a divorce...there may be less women who are abused and treated the same way (same goes for men). Always good to know what you are getting yourself into before love makes you blind.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 12:55 PM
I have a question???Where did CC and his family go to church at?? Did they go to CC's fathers church or to his employers church??

I am thinking that CC thought once his family was dead he would be seen as the poor widower who lost his family, and then once he fell into the arms of another woman who had been friends with his deceased wife, people would think that grief had brought them together and the other thing I do not think that CC had planned on was the MCS I think he thought this would all be handled by his small town police and that there was no way he would get caught, with the background steeped in religion with his own family and his employer, I think he thought that they would never look at him as the murderer...

Am I ever happy he was wrong all the way around..They attended Destiny. http://www.destinychurch.org/ (Not the father's church, but both are associated with JMM.)

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:56 PM
Did anyone see the Fox report on Drew Peterson in court? I think I missed it unless it wasn't on yet. When I type I don't see or hear anything, so guess the house could burn down around me.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 12:58 PM
That is exactly what happened.

Think you got some sources I got Pres/lol.

pres101
05-22-2009, 12:59 PM
Double Standards is all it is. I heard he wouldn't marry anyone if they were expecting,before marriage,yet he will marry his own. JMO

Hence the double standard that I have mentioned several times here. It all figures into the mindset of CC.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 12:59 PM
If the allegations are true about printing up wedding invitations, dated and what-not....nothing to me would be surprising about what she knew about the murders.

You just shake your head in amazement in how diabolical these so called Christians could be. To reason in your mind that I will loose my 100K job if I get divorced...but where does proper biblical reasoning come into play about murdering your own children...

What a twisted set of values and moralityWell...Miss Motive didn't appear to be all that "churchy" in the photo I believe is her at the Tampa strip club. I guess some would call her a "temptation", but it appears most call her "Treasure". ;) (It could turn out that "Treasure Hunter" could be more appropriate in this case, imo.)

ALT
05-22-2009, 01:04 PM
Clothing and spray paint:
In the early videos (first day of crime), there was activity at the passenger side of Chris' vehicle, I remember the video and see it reflected in my mind. I kept thinking -- what is happening there. I see now we are revisiting this, and if I am correct in my memory, it seems as if something was being lifted off of the floor on the passenger side and handed to someone else. Was it a gym bag? [Does anyone have a link to that exact video?]

W

Pretty sure it was a gym bag! :)

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 01:05 PM
Hello SS me good bud,

Per the following:

The date is early 2010 according to Pres (the source is CC's family on confirmation of the invitations and date).

I might be mistaken, but I believe that the confirmation from Pres was of the broken jaw, and not the invitations -- though I read what you did and found it confusing.

Perhaps Pres will step in here and clarify what he was confirming and how he was confirming it to get rid of any confusion.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 01:05 PM
Unfortunately, divorce judgements are public record. Believe me, found mine accidently online (published in newspaper as well). You'd be surprised how much truly is available to the public. One of those harsh lessons, yet again, learned.

I think it is an invasion of privacy...no one needs to know the financial transactions of 2 individuals that are ending their marriage. Sometimes the laws are wrong and the fact that it is out in the public just raises more issues for the couple.
Now if it is necessary to an investigation then by all means open it up to the right individuals.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 01:10 PM
I think it is an invasion of privacy...no one needs to know the financial transactions of 2 individuals that are ending their marriage. Sometimes the laws are wrong and the fact that it is out in the public just raises more issues for the couple.
Now if it is necessary to an investigation then by all means open it up to the right individuals.

I agree with you. It was devastating, for me personally, to read my name, ex's name, and my home address out there for all to read. As if divorce isn't traumatizing enough. :( However, the law considers these "transactions" as public record. Go figure....

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 01:11 PM
Hello Alt,

Per the following, THANKS!

Pretty sure it was a gym bag! :)

I remember watching that video and thinking to myself, "Register this, what are you seeing -- what ARE you seeing!"

I would really like to see that video again.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 01:13 PM
Did anyone see the Fox report on Drew Peterson in court? I think I missed it unless it wasn't on yet. When I type I don't see or hear anything, so guess the house could burn down around me.

Here's a link to the latest news on the Peterson case...wasn't sure what you were looking for so didn't know what to grab.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56014&page=33

HTH.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by Stella5
The rumor earlier was she already had Wedding invitations printed up! How true, who knows... but motive is all over that.

Originally posted by fmrchesterguy wow, and here I thought I had privileged information! This story has been repeated by CC's family. I couldn't tell you if it originated with them or not.


Originally posted by pres101
It is true. Wedding invitations were printed.


Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching
OK...drumroll please....the BIG question: What was the date?

Originally posted by pres101: Early 2010.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84367&page=2

No, Wrinkles...We were discussing the wedding invitations. :)

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 01:39 PM
Since I have been posting here a lot - thought I would mention I have changed my user name from Medusa to WholeLottaRosie.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 01:41 PM
Since I have been posting here a lot - thought I would mention I have changed my user name from Medusa to WholeLottaRosie.Awwww...I loved Medusa. (Glad you told us you changed!!) Mind if I just call you Rosie? :blowkiss:

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 01:49 PM
Awwww...I loved Medusa. (Glad you told us you changed!!) Mind if I just call you Rosie? :blowkiss:

I was kind of fond of Medusa as well, but, I came to realize that it was off putting to some, and really didn't fit me anymore. I picked it on the spur of the moment maybe 10 years ago for internet usage, and have pondered the change for some time now.

This morning just seemed like the time.

Sure call me Rosie - I am called that by many in real life and have been for years!:blowkiss:

analytical
05-22-2009, 01:51 PM
Well...Miss Motive didn't appear to be all that "churchy" in the photo I believe is her at the Tampa strip club. I guess some would call her a "temptation", but it appears most call her "Treasure". ;) (It could turn out that "Treasure Hunter" could be more appropriate in this case, imo.)

SS -- I think you're on a wild good chase with the stripper angle. On Topix, someone calling themselves "unknown" writes as if they are credible and know Tara. Thinking back, someone asked if they knew Tara personally and they said they did and made a rather long post.

And my gut just tells me the poster is credible.

These rumors about wedding invitations are bizarre. How much weight can be given to this? :eek:

GolferChick
05-22-2009, 01:54 PM
Don't know if anyone saw this in the comments section of the latest story on the case in the St. Louis Post Dispatch...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/26849B90C930EBAA862575BE0007BAAF?OpenDocument

May 22, 2009 12:30PM CST (Page 91 of posted comments)
At one of the updates, a reporter asked whether the family had been strangled by hand or ligature, and the guy nodded and said wire ligature. Also in a post on one of these articles, CC's mom told someone at the viewing that sheri had a broken jaw. In addition to her black eyes and facial scratches, that shows maybe they weren't drugged.Also, someone wondered why the trampoline was taken by the Colemans. There's a legal term for it that I can't remember, but it could prove to be an irresistable temptation for some kid to play on, and if he got hurt, his family could sue CC. So I think they may have taken it to avoid any neighbor kid getting hurt. This was before his arrest, remember.

May 22, 2009 9:25AM CST (Page 51 of Posted Comments)
Sheri DID put up a fight. I know the people who own the funeral home in Chester and they said she had 2 black eyes and scratches on her face.


Sheri fought back with all she had -- just breaks my heart.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Don't know if anyone saw this in the comments section of the latest story on the case in the St. Louis Post Dispatch...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/26849B90C930EBAA862575BE0007BAAF?OpenDocument

May 22, 2009 12:30PM CST (Page 91 of posted comments)
At one of the updates, a reporter asked whether the family had been strangled by hand or ligature, and the guy nodded and said wire ligature. Also in a post on one of these articles, CC's mom told someone at the viewing that sheri had a broken jaw. In addition to her black eyes and facial scratches, that shows maybe they weren't drugged.Also, someone wondered why the trampoline was taken by the Colemans. There's a legal term for it that I can't remember, but it could prove to be an irresistable temptation for some kid to play on, and if he got hurt, his family could sue CC. So I think they may have taken it to avoid any neighbor kid getting hurt. This was before his arrest, remember.

May 22, 2009 9:25AM CST (Page 51 of Posted Comments)
Sheri DID put up a fight. I know the people who own the funeral home in Chester and they said she had 2 black eyes and scratches on her face.


Sheri fought back with all she had -- just breaks my heart.

I saw those, GC...in fact, there's quite a few nuggets of info out there today...I hope that there are as many confirmable facts which can make it into court testimony.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 02:06 PM
Awww...so sad about Sheri's other injuries. Yes, it does sound like she was aware and did fight back. (sigh) The black eyes could come from a broken jaw and nose, but not sure if the strangulation could cause it. The facial scratches probably came as she was trying to remove the ligature. :( (I still wonder if there was a sexual assault.)

I knew they would come up with some grand excuse for the trampoline. It is funny that Chris never worried about being sued before with it sitting outside unattended and having no fence.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 02:16 PM
Don't know if anyone saw this in the comments section of the latest story on the case in the St. Louis Post Dispatch...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/26849B90C930EBAA862575BE0007BAAF?OpenDocument

May 22, 2009 12:30PM CST (Page 91 of posted comments)
At one of the updates, a reporter asked whether the family had been strangled by hand or ligature, and the guy nodded and said wire ligature. Also in a post on one of these articles, CC's mom told someone at the viewing that sheri had a broken jaw. In addition to her black eyes and facial scratches, that shows maybe they weren't drugged.Also, someone wondered why the trampoline was taken by the Colemans. There's a legal term for it that I can't remember, but it could prove to be an irresistable temptation for some kid to play on, and if he got hurt, his family could sue CC. So I think they may have taken it to avoid any neighbor kid getting hurt. This was before his arrest, remember.

May 22, 2009 9:25AM CST (Page 51 of Posted Comments)
Sheri DID put up a fight. I know the people who own the funeral home in Chester and they said she had 2 black eyes and scratches on her face.


Sheri fought back with all she had -- just breaks my heart.

Wow. Words don't exist to describe how awful this is.

And as to the trampoline - F CC. I will refrain from any jokes about jumping on tramp-olines, but, it is amazing what he found time to worry about.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 02:17 PM
Awww...so sad about Sheri's other injuries. Yes, it does sound like she was aware and did fight back. (sigh) The black eyes could come from a broken jaw and nose, but not sure if the strangulation could cause it. The facial scratches probably came as she was trying to remove the ligature. :( (I still wonder if there was a sexual assault.)

I knew they would come up with some grand excuse for the trampoline. It is funny that Chris never worried about being sued before with it sitting outside unattended and having no fence.

what a thing to be worried about when you're going to trial for FDM of your family & facing a WD suit.

a little bitta paranoia, perhaps? "they" are out to get him?

Lindadanette
05-22-2009, 02:22 PM
Off Topic -
Melissa Huckaby charged with harming another girl (http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/22/melissa-huckaby-charged-with-harming-another-girl-2/)
Posted: 02:00 PM ET
(CNN) — Melissa Huckaby, the former Sunday school teacher accused of kidnapping, raping and killing 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, will face additional charges that she tried to poison two people, including another 7-year-old girl.
A revised complaint against Huckaby, 28, of Tracy, California, was made public just hours before she was due back in a Stockton, California courtroom Friday.
It charged that Huckaby “did willfully and unlawfully mingle a harmful substance with food or drink” with the intent to harm the child, identified only as “Jane M. Doe.”
Another alleged poisoning victim was identified as Daniel Plowman, but no age or other information was immediately provided.
http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/22/melissa-huckaby-charged-with-harming-another-girl-2/

On topic (sort of) - Three funnel clouds were seen moving over Largo about an hour ago. It just got really dark and there was a lot of lightning. I didn't even know - my sister called to make sure we were OK.

I had no sense of foreboding whatsoever. I wonder if Ms. Tara did. I know she was being discussed earlier - I still go back to the Myspace "mood" and emoticon. . .
It will be very interesting to find out when she last spoke with CC.

I am sick about Sheri - but don't you know, she must have let him know just what a scum dog he was before he murdered her - I sure hope so.

Does anyone still have that cache page to TL's myspace?

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 02:23 PM
I still think it was just a reminder of the boys and he wanted it gone. He doesn't give a darn about lawsuits from the neighbors, imo. Did they break it down and set it inside the garage or did they take it away?

Linda~ Thanks so much for the update on Huckaby!! Gosh, so many cases the past two days are popping. Is it a full moon again?! WTH?!

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 02:34 PM
Linda, that's right! Ms. Motive's mood was excited and now we hear about the invitations.

analytical
05-22-2009, 02:38 PM
<snip>

COLEMAN: Well, we know that Chris Coleman says that he left for the gym at about 5:45 that morning. By the time police got there and discovered the bodies it was 7:00 a.m. So you`ve got a very narrow window of time. Now, Dr. Michael Baden, renowned forensic scientist has reportedly taken a look at the autopsy reports and he pinpoints that time of death between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.

GRACE: Back to renowned chief medical examiner out of Broward County, Dr. Joshua Perper. How did Baden do it, Dr. Perper.

PERPER: My understanding is there were no special tests done in this particular case such as the level of a chemical called potassium in the eye (ph) which helps with the exact determination of the time of death. I must say they think that Dr. Baden went on a leg here and this kind of determination within two hours is really highly questionable. However, all of the other circumstantial evidence certainly points to the father and the fact that he called the police the short time, but I think that the determination of the so-called postmortem clock is very wide and unreliable and to restrict it to two hours, I would say is highly questionable.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/21/ng.01.html

pres101
05-22-2009, 02:40 PM
SS -- I think you're on a wild good chase with the stripper angle. On Topix, someone calling themselves "unknown" writes as if they are credible and know Tara. Thinking back, someone asked if they knew Tara personally and they said they did and made a rather long post.

And my gut just tells me the poster is credible.

These rumors about wedding invitations are bizarre. How much weight can be given to this? :eek:

Time will tell.

SleuthyMama
05-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Couple things to say about the mistress. I am sure she knew CC was married with children. She was a friend of Sheri's originally so that should have been a given. We all have our own feelings on infidelity. I'm not here to fight that fight. I'm going to agree though with some previous posters who speculated that she may be living in a reality that CC created for her, ie, "bear with me baby, we're in the middle of a divorce but you and I gotta stay on the DL because she'll make it really hard for me and take everything I have." Or it could have even been "Well, we're getting these death threats and I'm worried about the kids but you know I don't sleep with her anymore blah blah blah." I could go on and on butd you all know the words to that song already.

She's involved in that her married lover killed his wife and children. I'm just not ready to throw her in prison too. ESPECIALLY if those stories re the wedding invites are true. That seems more like the actions of a person who is taking everything her married lover tells her as the "gospel truth." Pun intended.

analytical
05-22-2009, 02:51 PM
Time will tell.

Guess I should have been more specific. I meant SS's attempt to match photos .. according to the person on Topix who claims they do know her, she is not a stripper but did work as a "hostess" at a gentleman's club. Seems they know her personally.. that's what I gather from reading the posts.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 02:52 PM
<snip>

COLEMAN: Well, we know that Chris Coleman says that he left for the gym at about 5:45 that morning. By the time police got there and discovered the bodies it was 7:00 a.m. So you`ve got a very narrow window of time. Now, Dr. Michael Baden, renowned forensic scientist has reportedly taken a look at the autopsy reports and he pinpoints that time of death between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.

GRACE: Back to renowned chief medical examiner out of Broward County, Dr. Joshua Perper. How did Baden do it, Dr. Perper.

PERPER: My understanding is there were no special tests done in this particular case such as the level of a chemical called potassium in the eye (ph) which helps with the exact determination of the time of death. I must say they think that Dr. Baden went on a leg here and this kind of determination within two hours is really highly questionable. However, all of the other circumstantial evidence certainly points to the father and the fact that he called the police the short time, but I think that the determination of the so-called postmortem clock is very wide and unreliable and to restrict it to two hours, I would say is highly questionable.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/21/ng.01.html


I wonder what Perper's response would have been if Baden had said TOD estimated to be between 1a.m. & 6a.m. -- that's a 5 hour window.

;)

analytical
05-22-2009, 02:54 PM
Time will tell.

Pres,

Time will tell? Guess this would be part and parcel of the trial.

Is your source pretty reliable. Wedding invites .. geez!

pres101
05-22-2009, 02:55 PM
FWIW, I do not believe (if the wedding invites are *totally true, which is possible) that the "fiancee" would be so stupid to plan a wedding if she was involved in this triple murder. If she planned along with CC, why would she implicate herself where CC tried his very best to make it look like a stalker stranger??? Makes no sense, imho.

I doubt that Miss Motive had any idea that CC was going to kill. All she knew was that the marriage would soon be over.

adnoid
05-22-2009, 03:00 PM
...she is not a stripper but did work as a "hostess" at a gentleman's club...

The difference being?

In my admittedly limited experience, a "Gentleman's Club" is a strip club with more expensive drinks and a valet.

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:05 PM
The difference being?

In my admittedly limited experience, a "Gentleman's Club" is a strip club with more expensive drinks and a valet.

Not a "stripper" now .. the person tells lots about her and claims to know her.

Just what I read.

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:06 PM
<snip>

COLEMAN: Well, we know that Chris Coleman says that he left for the gym at about 5:45 that morning. By the time police got there and discovered the bodies it was 7:00 a.m. So you`ve got a very narrow window of time. Now, Dr. Michael Baden, renowned forensic scientist has reportedly taken a look at the autopsy reports and he pinpoints that time of death between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.

GRACE: Back to renowned chief medical examiner out of Broward County, Dr. Joshua Perper. How did Baden do it, Dr. Perper.

PERPER: My understanding is there were no special tests done in this particular case such as the level of a chemical called potassium in the eye (ph) which helps with the exact determination of the time of death. I must say they think that Dr. Baden went on a leg here and this kind of determination within two hours is really highly questionable. However, all of the other circumstantial evidence certainly points to the father and the fact that he called the police the short time, but I think that the determination of the so-called postmortem clock is very wide and unreliable and to restrict it to two hours, I would say is highly questionable.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/21/ng.01.html


Dr. Baden never said that the deaths occurred between 3:00 and 5:00.

What he did say was that the deaths probably occurred before 3:00 and that they definitely occurred before 5:00. Putting CC, according to his own statemant at home at the time of death.

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:07 PM
Pres,

Time will tell? Guess this would be part and parcel of the trial.

Is your source pretty reliable. Wedding invites .. geez!

I would consider it highly reliable.

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:11 PM
Couple things to say about the mistress. I am sure she knew CC was married with children. She was a friend of Sheri's originally so that should have been a given. We all have our own feelings on infidelity. I'm not here to fight that fight. I'm going to agree though with some previous posters who speculated that she may be living in a reality that CC created for her, ie, "bear with me baby, we're in the middle of a divorce but you and I gotta stay on the DL because she'll make it really hard for me and take everything I have." Or it could have even been "Well, we're getting these death threats and I'm worried about the kids but you know I don't sleep with her anymore blah blah blah." I could go on and on butd you all know the words to that song already.

She's involved in that her married lover killed his wife and children. I'm just not ready to throw her in prison too. ESPECIALLY if those stories re the wedding invites are true. That seems more like the actions of a person who is taking everything her married lover tells her as the "gospel truth." Pun intended.

I agree 100%. If CC killed his wife and kids, there is no limit to what he would for personal gain or self satisfaction.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 03:17 PM
The difference being?

In my admittedly limited experience, a "Gentleman's Club" is a strip club with more expensive drinks and a valet.

I just called my b/f & asked him what a "hostess" in a gentleman's club does...he started laughing & asked me if I was considering a part-time job. LOL

NEhoo, he said her duties are pretty much like the hostess @ a restaurant -meet the guests & show them to their seats - and basically the same physical attributes as the 'entertainers'...it's a 'foot in the door job' because the 'entertainers' earn much more....well - that's my cleaned up version of what he said anyway. ;)

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:19 PM
I would consider it highly reliable.

Gee, the plot thickens. :eek:

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:20 PM
Guess I should have been more specific. I meant SS's attempt to match photos .. according to the person on Topix who claims they do know her, she is not a stripper but did work as a "hostess" at a gentleman's club. Seems they know her personally.. that's what I gather from reading the posts.

I have seen where she was listed as a "House Entertainer" at a Strip Joint in Tampa under the name Treasure.

What do you think a "House Entertainer" at a strip joint does? If she keeps her cloths on I am sure that she wouldn't be employed for very long.

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Pres101,

Didn't you say, IIRC, that you grew up in Chester.

What do you know of Daddy Coleman? Is he a warm-hearted person or maybe cold .. indifferent? Is he liked around town?

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 03:22 PM
Found this in the Post comments:

"ilovecoconuts May 22, 2009 8:50AM CST
heres a tid bit from sheris friend. It really haunts me. The night before the murders Chris made the family dinner. According to her friends Chris never cooked and he was doing it for a good gesture. Look what kind of a premeditated effer he is....absolutely disgusting."

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:22 PM
I have seen where she was listed as a "House Entertainer" at a Strip Joint in Tampa under the name Treasure.

What do you think a "House Entertainer" at a strip joint does? If she keeps her cloths on I am sure that she wouldn't be employed for very long.

That was SS comparing photos .. not sure if it is the same person or not.

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:24 PM
The difference being?

In my admittedly limited experience, a "Gentleman's Club" is a strip club with more expensive drinks and a valet.

I would bet that a "Gentleman's Club" also has easier to explain charges on your credit card.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 03:29 PM
Gee, the plot thickens. :eek:

The "plot" thickens for CC only. I have no doubt the the GF/Fiancee will shed much light on the "other side" of CC's behaviours and what she was told by him. It will be enlightening, but I do not believe, it will be surprising. Sadly, on so many levels we will see that CC is no different from many NPD people who choose to murder for personal gain. Even if we don't get the "normal" reason as to this extent and the why of it.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 03:32 PM
OT: Prosecutors: Drew Peterson wanted wife dead

JOLIET, Ill. - Prosecutors say Drew Peterson tried to hire someone in 2003 to kill his third wife.

They made the allegation at a hearing over a request to reduce Peterson's $20 million bond.

A judge refused to reduce the bond for the suburban ex-cop, charged with killing his third wife, Kathleen Savio.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,7065419.story


Also new charges filed against Melissa Huckaby today:

(05-22) 08:52 PDT TRACY -- The woman accused of raping and murdering 8-year-old Sandra Cantu of Tracy is facing new charges alleging that she poisoned a 7-year-old girl and a man in the months before Sandra died, according to court records.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/22/BAM917PDHE.DTL&tsp=1

This has been a WS Public Service Announcement....please return to regularly scheduled programming. ;)

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:33 PM
Pres101,

Didn't you say, IIRC, that you grew up in Chester.

What do you know of Daddy Coleman? Is he a warm-hearted person or maybe cold .. indifferent? Is he liked around town?



What does "IIRC" mean. A mental block, I don't get the abbreviation.

Ron Coleman is somewhat of a warm-hearted person and fairly well liked. I am sure that you could find contradictions around town.

I will say that in a lot of circumstances he was forgiving and willing to give others a second chance. This might seem to contradict some of my other posts but it is a really complex issue. There were definitely double standards at Grace Church. He is also self serving.

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:35 PM
"if I remember correctly" .. thanks for the insight on RC

adnoid
05-22-2009, 03:35 PM
I would bet that a "Gentleman's Club" also has easier to explain charges on your credit card.

That's what I thought, too. I was wrong.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 03:36 PM
Found this in the Post comments:

"ilovecoconuts May 22, 2009 8:50AM CST
heres a tid bit from sheris friend. It really haunts me. The night before the murders Chris made the family dinner. According to her friends Chris never cooked and he was doing it for a good gesture. Look what kind of a premeditated effer he is....absolutely disgusting."Then the Toxicology results should be very interesting. It would have given him the perfect opportunity to drug them all.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 03:36 PM
What does "IIRC" mean. A mental block, I don't get the abbreviation.


IIRC= If I remember correctly. :) FWIW, I have no idea what "BBM" means. I won't even go into what I guessed at. Originally, it involved Charmin. :D

SleuthyMama
05-22-2009, 03:37 PM
That's what I thought, too. I was wrong.

OT but would it be too much to ask to get a LOL button right next to the Thank You button?

Melanie
05-22-2009, 03:37 PM
Pres,

Time will tell? Guess this would be part and parcel of the trial.

Is your source pretty reliable. Wedding invites .. geez!

I've been awfully quiet, as I've been searching the internet about these wedding invitations. I couldn't find a source in sight.

And besides sleeping with your BFF husband - how low are your morals to marry the guy. Sounds like a Jerry Springer show all the way around.

Was she involved?

If she can do this (knowing he was married and all) - who's to say she wasn't an accomplice. (and I'm NOT saying she is). But it looks like we may have 2 evil-doers here. This is just MY opinion only - and no disrespect to others that have differing opinions.

TRU TV Partners in Crime is a good link:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/partners/

I do wonder if CC had an accomplice.

Mel

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 03:41 PM
That's what I thought, too. I was wrong.

ROFL. Sounds like an interesting story there.

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:42 PM
Then the Toxicology results should be very interesting. It would have given him the perfect opportunity to drug them all.

If so, CC must have thought himself totally above reproach never planned on MCS getting involved. Probably figured that small town LE would chalk it up the Phantom that had sent the threats.

If so one sick SOB.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 03:42 PM
I don't really care what the defenders of Miss Motive say she was doing at the strip club. The point is...she was working at the strip club. It doesn't make it any better if she didn't take off her clothes, imo. She was still surrounding herself with a certain group of people which were the polar opposites of what Chris was supposed to be about as a Christian.

I still think she is the same person in the photo. She wasn't by a stripper pole...she was clothed (for the most part) and standing by shelves of champagne. This could indicate she was a "hostess". She isn't going to want it out there if she did participate either. ;)

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:43 PM
What is "BBM"? "Boston Bacterial Meeting" <g> .. that's what Google said :crazy:

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 03:43 PM
If so, CC must have thought himself totally above reproach never planned on MCS getting involved. Probably figured that small town LE would chalk it up the Phantom that had sent the threats.

If so one sick SOB.You got it! ;)

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 03:44 PM
IIRC= If I remember correctly. :) FWIW, I have no idea what "BBM" means. I won't even go into what I guessed at. Originally, it involved Charmin. :D


Bolded By Me

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:45 PM
THANKS! BBM :crazy:

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't really care what the defenders of Miss Motive say she was doing at the strip club. The point is...she was working at the strip club. It doesn't make it any better if she didn't take off her clothes, imo. She was still surrounding herself with a certain group of people which were the polar opposites of what Chris was supposed to be about as a Christian.

I still think she is the same person in the photo. She wasn't by a stripper pole...she was clothed (for the most part) and standing by shelves of champagne. This could indicate she was a "hostess". She isn't going to want it out there if she did participate either. ;)


Makes me think of the old adage, if you hang around a barber shop long enough you'll get a hair cut.

True confession time, kids. When Rosie was a younger lass, I got hired at a Gentleman's Club, and a really classy one to boot, as a cocktail waitress. I heard you could make more money waitressing in a GC than a regular bar. THE VERY FIRST NIGHT I began getting big pressure to dance. That was my only night there as I long ago resolved never to do anything I couldn't tell my Mama about. But, it was an interesting evening all the same.

Melanie
05-22-2009, 03:46 PM
What is "BBM"? "Boston Bacterial Meeting" <g> .. that's what Google said :crazy:



:crazy:

Modern Slang BBM definitions

Big Beautiful Man

We're not referring to Chris are we?

BFF = Best Friends forever (that was my post)

Best,

Mel

DairyGirl
05-22-2009, 03:47 PM
IIRC= If I remember correctly. :) FWIW, I have no idea what "BBM" means. I won't even go into what I guessed at. Originally, it involved Charmin. :D

bold by me

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 03:48 PM
What is "BBM"? "Boston Bacterial Meeting" <g> .. that's what Google said :crazy:

Honestly, I still have no idea. I probably got it wrong as well. No surprise. I have those kind of moments. :)

analytical
05-22-2009, 03:50 PM
Artie from the neighborhood is here! What say ye, Artie? :)

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 03:51 PM
bold by me

I am, yet again, enlightened! Thank you, DG!!!! All this time, I had no idea. I *so* have to get an abbreviation dictionary. Dorkdom is not always a good thing in this regard. I mean, really. "Charmin". :)

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:51 PM
I don't really care what the defenders of Miss Motive say she was doing at the strip club. The point is...she was working at the strip club. It doesn't make it any better if she didn't take off her clothes, imo. She was still surrounding herself with a certain group of people which were the polar opposites of what Chris was supposed to be about as a Christian.

I still think she is the same person in the photo. She wasn't by a stripper pole...she was clothed (for the most part) and standing by shelves of champagne. This could indicate she was a "hostess". She isn't going to want it out there if she did participate either. ;)


SS, you are correct. The title and job don't matter.

CC's double life is the real issue. I just wonder how long it had been going on?

Stella5
05-22-2009, 03:52 PM
I don't really care what the defenders of Miss Motive say she was doing at the strip club. The point is...she was working at the strip club. It doesn't make it any better if she didn't take off her clothes, imo. She was still surrounding herself with a certain group of people which were the polar opposites of what Chris was supposed to be about as a Christian.

I still think she is the same person in the photo. She wasn't by a stripper pole...she was clothed (for the most part) and standing by shelves of champagne. This could indicate she was a "hostess". She isn't going to want it out there if she did participate either. ;)

Okay FWIW, I'm going to attempt to clear up the "hostess" issue at Strip Clubs. Yes I've been to one for my BMF's bachelor party and it wasn't a sleezy joint, it was a "Gentlemen's Club". Upscale, not like the Hustler Club or east side strip joints here in STL.

There are two types of entertainers at these clubs. Those on stage that do their thing, aka strippers. And those that wander around the room serving drinks and offering *other services* - these are the Hostesses. Their job is to entertain the men and get the men to spend their money on drinks, lap dances, and other things that require private rooms.

It's not like walking into Outback and having the hostess ask you how many are in your party. These places are in business to make money and having a woman at the cash register isn't taking in any revenue, that's why the bouncers are up front because the men definitely are not there to see them.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 03:52 PM
Makes me think of the old adage, if you hang around a barber shop long enough you'll get a hair cut.

True confession time, kids. When Rosie was a younger lass, I got hired at a Gentleman's Club, and a really classy one to boot, as a cocktail waitress. I heard you could make more money waitressing in a GC than a regular bar. THE VERY FIRST NIGHT I began getting big pressure to dance. That was my only night there as I long ago resolved never to do anything I couldn't tell my Mama about. But, it was an interesting evening all the same.I am not knocking strippers! They have to eat, too. :)

I am only concerned about this particular one who feels it is OK to step into her best friend's marriage, screw her husband, make plans to marry him, and has no problem doing any of the above!! She has the morals of an alley cat and working at a strip club is just another side of her personality.

I have no doubt she knew he was currently married with children. I guess Chris took care of that problem. Could be with her knowledge for all we know! It has been rumored he did call her right before he went back to the house after the call for a welfare check. So...what did he say?!

pres101
05-22-2009, 03:55 PM
Makes me think of the old adage, if you hang around a barber shop long enough you'll get a hair cut.

True confession time, kids. When Rosie was a younger lass, I got hired at a Gentleman's Club, and a really classy one to boot, as a cocktail waitress. I heard you could make more money waitressing in a GC than a regular bar. THE VERY FIRST NIGHT I began getting big pressure to dance. That was my only night there as I long ago resolved never to do anything I couldn't tell my Mama about. But, it was an interesting evening all the same.

So you did or did not dance?? Just kidding, we know that you DID NOT.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 03:55 PM
I am, yet again, enlightened! Thank you, DG!!!! All this time, I had no idea. I *so* have to get an abbreviation dictionary. Dorkdom is not always a good thing in this regard. I mean, really. "Charmin". :)


good source for abbreviations

http://www.netlingo.com/acronyms.php

Blackwatch
05-22-2009, 03:57 PM
If the allegations are true about printing up wedding invitations, dated and what-not....nothing to me would be surprising about what she knew about the murders.

You just shake your head in amazement in how diabolical these so called Christians could be. To reason in your mind that I will loose my 100K job if I get divorced...but where does proper biblical reasoning come into play about murdering your own children...

What a twisted set of values and morality

Unfortunately, I believe that's exactly what the largest part of "christianity" has come down to today, twisted values, twisted reasoning, hypocricy, and hiding behind "religion". Sad, very sad. "Get out of her My people."

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 03:59 PM
good source for abbreviations

http://www.netlingo.com/acronyms.php

After all these years here, I can only give myself one of these: :doh:

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 03:59 PM
good source for abbreviations

http://www.netlingo.com/acronyms.phpAnother great source for our abbreviations:

WS Lingo (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68412&highlight=LIngo)

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:02 PM
Now I am curious....how much did you rake in for that one night, Rosie?! LOL I may need to consider a night job soon. ;) WS isn't paying enough. hehehe


Originally Posted by WholeLottaRosie
Makes me think of the old adage, if you hang around a barber shop long enough you'll get a hair cut.

True confession time, kids. When Rosie was a younger lass, I got hired at a Gentleman's Club, and a really classy one to boot, as a cocktail waitress. I heard you could make more money waitressing in a GC than a regular bar. THE VERY FIRST NIGHT I began getting big pressure to dance. That was my only night there as I long ago resolved never to do anything I couldn't tell my Mama about. But, it was an interesting evening all the same.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 04:03 PM
I am not knocking strippers! They have to eat, too. :)

I am only concerned about this particular one who feels it is OK to step into her best friend's marriage, screw her husband, make plans to marry him, and has no problem doing any of the above!! She has the morals of an alley cat and working at a strip club is just another side of her personality.

I have no doubt she knew he was currently married with children. I guess Chris took care of that problem. Could be with her knowledge for all we know! It has been rumored he did call her right before he went back to the house after the call for a welfare check. So...what did he say?!

Posted as a Devil's Advocate... What if she only went by CC told her and she believed CC??? I do not believe she was part of this murder, however, I do think she may have been led by lies by CC. Perhaps that is one of the reasons she has been so quiet. Is it not possible LE, et al, have requested she do that for this case?

mikeysmommom
05-22-2009, 04:04 PM
Well...Miss Motive didn't appear to be all that "churchy" in the photo I believe is her at the Tampa strip club. I guess some would call her a "temptation", but it appears most call her "Treasure". ;) (It could turn out that "Treasure Hunter" could be more appropriate in this case, imo.)


Then the Toxicology results should be very interesting. It would have given him the perfect opportunity to drug them all.

My first thought too! Lesson if hubby never cooks and on his own wants to make the family dinner......................take the kidz and run as fast as you can:eek:

analytical
05-22-2009, 04:06 PM
Conflicting reports about the caskets:

posters on PD call "hopefortommorrow" a credible poster from Chicago .. can't recall if she is family of Sheri's or friends of the family

lajr56 May 22, 2009 1:42PM CST
Also, hopefortomorrow (as much as she is NOT a cc supporter) stated that she attended the funerals in Chicago.

She stated that there were no signs of facial trauma. In fact, I think she stated that they all looked like 'peaceful angels in there coffins'.

That is not to say that a good mortician cannot hide those things.

So in my mind, whether or not she/they were beaten remains to be seen.

mikeysmommom
05-22-2009, 04:06 PM
ROFL. Sounds like an interesting story there.

It sounds like Mrs.Adnoid is a sleuther also.:rolleyes:LOL

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 04:07 PM
Now I am curious....how much did you rake in for that one night, Rosie?! LOL I may need to consider a night job soon. ;) WS isn't paying enough. hehehe

I actually walked out with over 200 dollars after giving to pot for dj and bartender. Which was a lot of money for a college student back in the late 70's. Don't think I didn't have to think a bit on it. The dancers made a LOT more. LOL Luckily, I found another job, and did okay.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:08 PM
Miss Motive was making plans to marry her BEST FRIEND'S husband.

There is an unspoken, unwritten rule among women. We do not sleep with, date, or marry a man that our friends have a crush on, are in love with, have ever been in love with, or could possibly fall in love with in the future. They are OFF LIMITS.

Stella5
05-22-2009, 04:09 PM
"Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges." (source ksdk.com)

Let's read between the lines of Baden's statement that TOD was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m. IMO he's stating that TOD happened before 3 a.m.; as they have determined through autopsy and all the testing that comes along with them. IMO the statement no later than 5 a.m. was due to the fact that CC first stated he left the residence at 5:30; and this was Badens way of letting the SA & us know CC was at home when TOD occurred.

So let's suppose that "most likely before 3 a.m." is in fact true. That gives him almost 2 1/2 - 3 hours to stage the scene before leaving the house. We've heard the painting was overdone. WTH else was he doing in the house for 3 hours with his 3 dead family members? Or did he leave sometime between TOD & 5:43 to get paint?

waterlooinspector
05-22-2009, 04:09 PM
Okay FWIW, I'm going to attempt to clear up the "hostess" issue at Strip Clubs. Yes I've been to one for my BMF's bachelor party and it wasn't a sleezy joint, it was a "Gentlemen's Club". Upscale, not like the Hustler Club or east side strip joints here in STL.

There are two types of entertainers at these clubs. Those on stage that do their thing, aka strippers. And those that wander around the room serving drinks and offering *other services* - these are the Hostesses. Their job is to entertain the men and get the men to spend their money on drinks, lap dances, and other things that require private rooms.

It's not like walking into Outback and having the hostess ask you how many are in your party. These places are in business to make money and having a woman at the cash register isn't taking in any revenue, that's why the bouncers are up front because the men definitely are not there to see them.

Maybe I missed this...but I wonder if CC knew that Miss Motive was working as a greeter, or whatever...at this Gentlemens Club?

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Miss Motive was making plans to marry her BEST FRIEND'S husband.

There is an unspoken, unwritten rule among women. We do not sleep with, date, or marry a man that our friends have a crush on, are in love with, have ever been in love with, or could possibly fall in love with in the future. They are OFF LIMITS.

EXACTLY. Among decent women.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
My first thought too! Lesson if hubby never cooks and on his own wants to make the family dinner......................take the kidz and run as fast as you can:eek:

especially if he recently talked you into taking your name off the deed to the house - for whatever reason.

:eek:

adnoid
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
...Their job is to entertain the men and get the men to spend their money on drinks, lap dances, and other things that require private rooms...

Seriously? I thought they just liked me. I'm devastated.

To be honest, I haven't been in one of those in at least 15 years. I always felt that the girls dancing were looking out at all these guys with drinks in their hands staring at their squishy bits and just hated them all, not that I blame them. I'm probably wrong, but that's how I felt and I wasn't comfortable being a part of it.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
I actually walked out with over 200 dollars after giving to pot for dj and bartender. Which was a lot of money for a college student back in the late 70's. Don't think I didn't have to think a bit on it. The dancers made a LOT more. LOL Luckily, I found another job, and did okay.Dayum!!

Hmmmm...looking up GC's in our area. Oh wait...guess they only hire those 20something women, huh?! Another lost career opportunity. :bang: ROFLMAO

mck16
05-22-2009, 04:13 PM
"Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges." (source ksdk.com)

Let's read between the lines of Baden's statement that TOD was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m. IMO he's stating that TOD happened before 3 a.m.; as they have determined through autopsy and all the testing that comes along with them. IMO the statement no later than 5 a.m. was due to the fact that CC first stated he left the residence at 5:30; and this was Badens way of letting the SA & us know CC was at home when TOD occurred.

So let's suppose that "most likely before 3 a.m." is in fact true. That gives him almost 2 1/2 - 3 hours to stage the scene before leaving the house. We've heard the painting was overdone. WTH else was he doing in the house for 3 hours with his 3 dead family members? Or did he leave sometime between TOD & 5:43 to get paint?

I believe and please correct me if I am wrong on NG's show Dr. Perperer (sp) disagreed with Biden's statement. Don't know if it was tod or something else. IIMO

Stella5
05-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Seriously? I thought they just liked me. I'm devastated.

To be honest, I haven't been in one of those in at least 15 years. I always felt that the girls dancing were looking out at all these guys with drinks in their hands staring at their squishy bits and just hated them all, not that I blame them. I'm probably wrong, but that's how I felt and I wasn't comfortable being a part of it.

ROFL!!! I'm sure they did like you adnoid ;-)

Can't say that I was too impressed, or really got what the attraction is all about. I understand men are visual creatures, but I still just don't get it.

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 04:14 PM
"Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges." (source ksdk.com)

Let's read between the lines of Baden's statement that TOD was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m. IMO he's stating that TOD happened before 3 a.m.; as they have determined through autopsy and all the testing that comes along with them. IMO the statement no later than 5 a.m. was due to the fact that CC first stated he left the residence at 5:30; and this was Badens way of letting the SA & us know CC was at home when TOD occurred.

So let's suppose that "most likely before 3 a.m." is in fact true. That gives him almost 2 1/2 - 3 hours to stage the scene before leaving the house. We've heard the painting was overdone. WTH else was he doing in the house for 3 hours with his 3 dead family members? Or did he leave sometime between TOD & 5:43 to get paint?

* deleting files from his 'puter ?
* removing the DVR ?
* calling g/f ?
* putting stuff in the neighbor's trash ?

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 04:15 PM
Dayum!!

Hmmmm...looking up GC's in our area. Oh wait...guess they only hire those 20something women, huh?! Another lost career opportunity. :bang: ROFLMAO

:Banane45:

Sadly, yes.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 04:16 PM
Miss Motive was making plans to marry her BEST FRIEND'S husband.

There is an unspoken, unwritten rule among women. We do not sleep with, date, or marry a man that our friends have a crush on, are in love with, have ever been in love with, or could possibly fall in love with in the future. They are OFF LIMITS.

One thing I have been taught. There are no rules to what people choose to do for what rationalization the can they can make of it. At one time, what you state may have been a basic truth in our niave hopes/beliefs. I know, for myself, after spending time here that is not truth. As painful a smack on the side of the head it is. Sometimes, life education is a very hard pill to swallow. :( There truly are no rules. Just choices....

analytical
05-22-2009, 04:16 PM
I believe and please correct me if I am wrong on NG's show Dr. Perperer (sp) disagreed with Biden's statement. Don't know if it was tod or something else. IIMO

He did .. I posted the transcript a few pages back .. let me go get the link..then I have to be off.

===============
Hope this helps -

Dr. Perper comments from NG
<snip>

COLEMAN: Well, we know that Chris Coleman says that he left for the gym at about 5:45 that morning. By the time police got there and discovered the bodies it was 7:00 a.m. So you`ve got a very narrow window of time. Now, Dr. Michael Baden, renowned forensic scientist has reportedly taken a look at the autopsy reports and he pinpoints that time of death between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.

GRACE: Back to renowned chief medical examiner out of Broward County, Dr. Joshua Perper. How did Baden do it, Dr. Perper.

PERPER: My understanding is there were no special tests done in this particular case such as the level of a chemical called potassium in the eye (ph) which helps with the exact determination of the time of death. I must say they think that Dr. Baden went on a leg here and this kind of determination within two hours is really highly questionable. However, all of the other circumstantial evidence certainly points to the father and the fact that he called the police the short time, but I think that the determination of the so-called postmortem clock is very wide and unreliable and to restrict it to two hours, I would say is highly questionable.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../21/ng.01.html

Stella5
05-22-2009, 04:18 PM
I believe and please correct me if I am wrong on NG's show Dr. Perperer (sp) disagreed with Biden's statement. Don't know if it was tod or something else. IIMO

Yes he did, but what did he base his opinion on? He wasn't involved in the review of the autopsies so how could he possibly know what was done, what was determined and what they know from those exams and the results of them?

mck16
05-22-2009, 04:20 PM
Yes he did, but what did he base his opinion on? He wasn't involved in the review of the autopsies so how could he possibly know what was done, what was determined and what they know from those exams and the results of them?

You know I wondered the same thing myself. But, didn't you think he was pretty adamant about it. I think he even said it more than once.

DogWood
05-22-2009, 04:21 PM
Thanks! :blushing:

I'm thinking the cost of property division, child support, alimony, etc, of the divorce could have been the reason for setting up the murder. I think child support and alimony on a 100K salary would have taken a pretty good chunk of CC's paycheck.

I wish we knew what was behind SC's removal from the deed of the house. If she had no knowledge, that tells me CC was going to try to screw her over in a property settlement. Afterall, it worked out great for his brother. His brother may have given him advice and helped him.

And can you imagine how pissed off SC would have been and how screwed over CC would be, if SC discovered her name was taken off the house without her knowledge? Takes me to the argument at 3am.

Quick question.

Wouldn't Sheri have to sign a QCD in order to remove herself from the title to their home?

(I'm not caught up yet...sorry if this has been asked and answered already. :))

Stella5
05-22-2009, 04:24 PM
You know I wondered the same thing myself. But, didn't you think he was pretty adamant about it. I think he even said it more than once.

I believe he stated his opinion based on his experiences only. To give a two-hour window could be questionable when you've discovered the bodies as soon as they did. However, I believe Badens statement was not "this is the window we think it happened in". Badens statement was "most likely before three" and then "no later than 5". That tells me they have pinpointed TOD occurring before 3, definitely within a narrow window; and added no later than 5 to confirm that they were infact deceased before CC left the house. Baden was the one to review the findings, so I'm more apt to believe his findings than Perper who has seen nothing. But that's just me :-)

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 04:26 PM
HALLO HALLO

ATTN ALL SLEUTHERS!

In this thread, we have a note of a rumor from someone saying that Chris made the family dinner the night before (something he apparently didn't often do.) We also have a rumor that he was out playing with the kids in the yard the night before and waved to someone that drove by as if they were best friends, yet he had never ever waved to the person before.

Dinner
Waving as if friendly

This guy was on a high, he knew what he was going to be doing that night and he was just trying to touch up his facade before he did it.

Dontcha think?

mck16
05-22-2009, 04:28 PM
I agree with what you are saying. IMO

adnoid
05-22-2009, 04:32 PM
Quick question.

Wouldn't Sheri have to sign a QCD in order to remove herself from the title to their home?

(I'm not caught up yet...sorry if this has been asked and answered already. :))

There would have to be a QCD filed in the County Recorder's office for any third party to rely on her no longer being on the Grant Deed, yes.

If there was some OTHER signature on it that a Notary certified that would be interesting. Unfortunately the county where the property is located does not have records on line so we cannot see them unless someone goes to the recorder's office, does a search & gets copies. Would be interesting to compare signatures...

Blackwatch
05-22-2009, 04:33 PM
Quick question.

Wouldn't Sheri have to sign a QCD in order to remove herself from the title to their home?

(I'm not caught up yet...sorry if this has been asked and answered already. :))

Theoretically, yes. However, in the real world SC obviously was living in, such things can be done by having someone else sign, if needed, in front of a notary. My best friend's ex husband sold the house she had an interest in by doing it behind her back (they were separated) and bringing his girl friend to the closing. She signed the paperwork Mrs Soandso. My girl friend didn't find out until MUCH later that the house had even been sold and recovered not one red cent.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:34 PM
My first thought too! Lesson if hubby never cooks and on his own wants to make the family dinner......................take the kidz and run as fast as you can:eek:Gives new meaning to the term, "Last Supper"...doesn't it? :eek: Chris takes things so literal...like all those teachings from JMM and RC.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:35 PM
There would have to be a QCD filed in the County Recorder's office for any third party to rely on her no longer being on the Grant Deed, yes.

If there was some OTHER signature on it that a Notary certified that would be interesting. Unfortunately the county where the property is located does not have records on line so we cannot see them unless someone goes to the recorder's office, does a search & gets copies. Would be interesting to compare signatures...We will get to see this comparison study when it goes to court for the wrongful death suit. ;)

analytical
05-22-2009, 04:37 PM
Will the civil suit proceed now? I read where they are only asking for $50,000.

RiverRat
05-22-2009, 04:37 PM
Sadly enough, Tampa has become notorious for the amount of "Gentlemen Club's" over the past two decades...and a simple drive by without walking in most of those places only brought the word Raunchy to mind....gentlemen or hostess....LOL....nah....just PC fancy words to justify their presence in the sex industry.

Excellant Sleuthing :clap: on this yet another heartwrenching case from Day One, especially finding the Hostess in that Sea of Sleeze - and yes - it's almost too predictable anymore with these Selfish Idiots that really think that they have fooled Everyone in the World....:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk:

analytical
05-22-2009, 04:40 PM
She's so "fresh-faced" here compared to the other photo in the low-cut blue satin dress.

http://www.dragtotop.com/tara_lintz

Some locals claim to know here in these posts:

http://www.topix.com/city/columbia-il/2009/05/family-friend-of-chris-coleman-hopes-people-dont-rush-to-judgment/p4

http://www.topix.com/forum/source/chicago-tribune/TVRH3QUS605LJ5GLM

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:40 PM
Yes he did, but what did he base his opinion on? He wasn't involved in the review of the autopsies so how could he possibly know what was done, what was determined and what they know from those exams and the results of them?After watching it again, he was basing his opinion on what NG said which was incorrect to begin with which made his analysis of the situation accurate, but he was not responding to the actual facts. NG was the one who gave him the wrong information and he was right to question how Dr. Baden could come up with that. However, had he been given what Dr. Baden really came up with in his review of the autopsies...he probably would concur with him.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 04:42 PM
Will the civil suit proceed now? I read where they are only asking for $50,000.

Why proceed towards a civil suit where a murder trial/decision has not been made? Makes no sense to pursue something where a firm judgement has not been made. Is this something you have "heard" or are just tossing out there?

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 04:42 PM
DING ding ding ding ding...

So speaks to premeditation in my book, the guy was on a high the night before -- he knew what he was going to do. The following info could almost definitely be found out by LE -- these look like people in the know.


OH SO FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR SHOW

Message #167 from WholeLottaRosie (aka Medusa) 05/07/09

luckyone40 May 7, 2009 10:54AM CST
>>The police are looking for something, I live right around the corner from this house and when they came and questioned all of the neighbors they did say to be on the lookout for something. I don't want to say what it is since the investigation is ongoing but the police told us we were not in danger so I am assuming they have a suspect. My husband leaves for work at 5 am and he did not see anything. I get up up at 5:45 and it is light out and let the dogs out at 6:15 and I have a direct view of their house and did not notice anything strange then or when I left for work at 6:40 am. My son is at the bus stop at 7:10 and the police and ambulance where there at that time. I just think that something is not right, my other neighbor saw the husband in his yard with his kids on Monday night when he went to the store and the husband waved to my neighbor like he knew him for 20 years and my neighbor said he has never waved to him before. I have a full view of their backyard and they have a walkout basement with windows and a patio door and the glass is not broken on either one. The police were examining the window for a long time on Tuesday and now they have police tape on both the window and patio door. This has my whole family freaked out, my kids are always out playing and I have never worried about anything living in this peaceful subdivision. I really think that they know who did it but are just waiting until they have everything pieced together before they make the arrest.<<

luckyone40 May 7, 2009 1:17PM CST
>>Another thing, we had our windows wide open that night/morning. I woke up at 5 am right after my husband left to go to the bathroom and did not fall back alseep right away. I didn't hear anything either. I would think that if someone was breaking into a house that their would be dogs barking, especially the doberman that lives in the house next door to them.<<


DINNER SHOW

Message #91 by WholeLottaRosie (aka Medusa) 05/22/09

"ilovecoconuts May 22, 2009 8:50AM CST
heres a tid bit from sheris friend. It really haunts me. The night before the murders Chris made the family dinner. According to her friends Chris never cooked and he was doing it for a good gesture. Look what kind of a premeditated effer he is....absolutely disgusting."

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 04:43 PM
That's what I thought, too. I was wrong.

My monitor is now wearing my afternoon coffee. lol. :confused:

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 04:44 PM
Sadly enough, Tampa has become notorious for the amount of "Gentlemen Club's" over the past two decades...and a simple drive by without walking in most of those places only brought the word Raunchy to mind....gentlemen or hostess....LOL....nah....just PC fancy words to justify their presence in the sex industry.

Excellant Sleuthing :clap: on this yet another heartwrenching case from Day One, especially finding the Hostess in that Sea of Sleeze - and yes - it's almost too predictable anymore with these Selfish Idiots that really think that they have fooled Everyone in the World....:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk:Thanks, RR~ I got it on my first shot, too! LOL It was like I was led right to her. Took me less than five minutes to find that photo. Divine intervention perhaps?!

ETA: Recap of Treasure

I found a photo of a girl who resembles her quite a bit. She works at the Tampa Gold Club and is called the House Entertainer named Treasure.

You have to enter, go into gallery photos, and she is standing in a black dress next to shelves with Champagne bottles.

http://www.seshowclubs.com/

Here is a photo of Miss Motive to compare it to:

Miss Motive (http://www.dragtotop.com/tara_lintz)

DogWood
05-22-2009, 04:45 PM
There would have to be a QCD filed in the County Recorder's office for any third party to rely on her no longer being on the Grant Deed, yes.

If there was some OTHER signature on it that a Notary certified that would be interesting. Unfortunately the county where the property is located does not have records on line so we cannot see them unless someone goes to the recorder's office, does a search & gets copies. Would be interesting to compare signatures...

Yes, it sure would!

There is a document # on whatever is recorded (11-01-08) but that's about it, IIRC.

analytical
05-22-2009, 04:46 PM
Why proceed towards a civil suit where a murder trial/decision has not been made? Makes no sense to pursue something where a firm judgement has not been made. Is this something you have "heard" or are just tossing out there?

PD had the headline. I read somewhere else the amount is $50,000.

My question was about the timing of the civil suit.

Sheri's lawyer cousin, from all reports, is filing it. (Enrico Mirabelli)

artie gumshoe
05-22-2009, 04:47 PM
Ok I am on....

I have been trying to catch up, you go to work get some stuff done, take care of some people and look what happens? You miss everything.

Well, I did read up on the CNN NG transcript and I do see now that a TOD, even if estimated is still before 5am, which adds one nail to the coffin for CC. Now in Illinois, we have strip clubs. I have also been to some "gentleman clubs" in Ft. Lauderdale and the "hostess" girls DO NOT get naked. However, they will do almost everything to get you to buy a drink, because they get a commission off of drinks purchased. (You really piss them off if you just buy a soda) Now, also I do know "waitresses/hostesses" at strip clubs in illinois and on occasion, if they are short a stripper for the night, they will take the stage to get some extra cash. So, as far as the stripper thing is concerned, I am sure that she has done stripping at some point. Also, the questions being asked of her are entirely relative. "Is she a stripper now? or Was she a stripper when she and CC had a fling?"

Wedding invitations: don't know, sounds a bit much like a rumor or even a planted rumor. I know that the LE likes to plant rumors to see what comes out and I think that is the case with this one.

TOD: that is the biggie. If the neighbor comes forth and tells the LE that the "screaming and fighting" was indeed heard around 3am, then that coincides with a TOD. But furthermore, I think CC was better off when he originally told LE, that morning, that he was at work all night. Now, he was at home when they died, so unless he saw witnessed the killer killing his family, maybe he was on the "throne" then he is guilty. (I know somepeople can be in there for like 30 minutes).

I like how slowly, we are getting more information. We see that on the NG transcript that there were more than one message. This completely changes what we had all thought on day one about this whole thing. Remember: we all thought that a killer went in after watching for CC to leave and then killed the family, found the DVR and took that, spray painted a message and then left. Now, we find out that the killer, basically beat up and killed the family, found the DVR and took it, spray painted a couple of messages on the wall and then left. Remember how we had long discussions about how it would only take baout 4 minutes to choke someone to death? Now, how long would it take to give someone two black eyes, scratch someone up, brake their jaw and then strangle them to death? 10, 15, 20 minutes? How long does it take to spray paint multiple messages on the wall? If you want them to be readible, about what 30 seconds a message? That would be a few minutes to do all of the messages. As more information is being released we see that it is more and more unlikely that someone, our ninja killer, could have snuck in and did all of this in the time allotted without being seen.

I have been quiet, because I have just been taking it all in, it seems each day there is a little piece of evidence released.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 04:49 PM
Why proceed towards a civil suit where a murder trial/decision has not been made? Makes no sense to pursue something where a firm judgement has not been made. Is this something you have "heard" or are just tossing out there?

Check the stltoday.com website for the article. It makes sense to do so now cause they can get the property/assets tied up so CC can't use them for his defense. And prevent him from disposing of things.

artie gumshoe
05-22-2009, 04:53 PM
as for the waving, he has waved at me before when I drive by. Its not a false thing, as most of us in the community don't know our nighbors but still wave at them.

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 04:54 PM
s

I like how slowly, we are getting more information. We see that on the NG transcript that there were more than one message. This completely changes what we had all thought on day one about this whole thing. Remember: we all thought that a killer went in after watching for CC to leave and then killed the family, found the DVR and took that, spray painted a message and then left. Now, we find out that the killer, basically beat up and killed the family, found the DVR and took it, spray painted a couple of messages on the wall and then left. Remember how we had long discussions about how it would only take baout 4 minutes to choke someone to death? Now, how long would it take to give someone two black eyes, scratch someone up, brake their jaw and then strangle them to death? 10, 15, 20 minutes? How long does it take to spray paint multiple messages on the wall? If you want them to be readible, about what 30 seconds a message? That would be a few minutes to do all of the messages. As more information is being released we see that it is more and more unlikely that someone, our ninja killer, could have snuck in and did all of this in the time allotted without being seen.

I have been quiet, because I have just been taking it all in, it seems each day there is a little piece of evidence released.

I never thought that. ;o)

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 04:58 PM
Quick question.

Wouldn't Sheri have to sign a QCD in order to remove herself from the title to their home?

(I'm not caught up yet...sorry if this has been asked and answered already. :))

Who says Sheri was present to sign it? Fake ID, or fake look alike stand in, or dishonest or not so bright notary and it's a done deal. Happens every day.

artie gumshoe
05-22-2009, 05:00 PM
I never thought that. ;o)

Sorry Rosie, not you.

(I liked the name Medusa better; had a special ancient romanticism associated with it.)

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 05:05 PM
Sorry Rosie, not you.

(I liked the name Medusa better; had a special ancient romanticism associated with it.)


Thanks. I will probably stay Medusa on any other crime related boards. Although, WS is my "home".

SuziQ
05-22-2009, 05:11 PM
Why proceed towards a civil suit where a murder trial/decision has not been made? Makes no sense to pursue something where a firm judgement has not been made. Is this something you have "heard" or are just tossing out there?

We recently had a case here where the husband gunned down his wife in a church parking lot, as everyong was going inside, in front of her mom and son no less. Her family immediately did the same thing. They were able to prevent him from using his wife's estate (half equity in home, etc) to pay for his defense.

Ack, another loser he was. His wife had gone on vacation with the kids for a week or so and he moved his GF in during that time. They didn't even try to hide it from the neighbor's. Wife comes home, neighbors spill the beans and wife files for divorce and kicks him out. That's why he killed her. His dad is a religious zealot and kidnapped the grandkid, took the money, etc. it got messy. But the judge sided with the wife's family on everything, because this guy and his family are nuts. Guess what? The GF immediately got engaged to him while his was sitting in jail and stuck by him for a long time.

RiverRat
05-22-2009, 05:24 PM
Thanks, RR~ I got it on my first shot, too! LOL It was like I was led right to her. Took me less than five minutes to find that photo. Divine intervention perhaps?!

ETA: Recap of Treasure

I found a photo of a girl who resembles her quite a bit. She works at the Tampa Gold Club and is called the House Entertainer named Treasure.

You have to enter, go into gallery photos, and she is standing in a black dress next to shelves with Champagne bottles.

http://www.seshowclubs.com/

Here is a photo of Miss Motive to compare it to:

Miss Motive (http://www.dragtotop.com/tara_lintz)

That was certainly interesting.....I can't say for a fact that Miss Motive and Treasure are two seperate people and so, once more, the Plot Thickens....I am not so sure that we will find a real treasure like Amber Frey with the alleged BF.

You are really getting too good at this is the problem! Too many cases have you at the point where you just zero in...don't know if that's a good or bad thing, for us or for you!

chicagofa13
05-22-2009, 05:32 PM
Why proceed towards a civil suit where a murder trial/decision has not been made? Makes no sense to pursue something where a firm judgement has not been made. Is this something you have "heard" or are just tossing out there?

I read that a civil suit would be filed soon. No, I don't have a link handy.

fmrchesterguy
05-22-2009, 05:37 PM
Why proceed towards a civil suit where a murder trial/decision has not been made? Makes no sense to pursue something where a firm judgement has not been made. Is this something you have "heard" or are just tossing out there?

The civil suit is probably intended, at least in part, to prevent CC from liquidating marital assets to pay for his criminal defense. It will also cause him to fight this on multiple fronts.

DogWood
05-22-2009, 05:40 PM
I read that a civil suit would be filed soon. No, I don't have a link handy.

Here's one. :)

"Meanwhile, Enrico Mirabelli, spokesman for Sheri Coleman's family, said the family will file a wrongful death suit in Monroe County on Tuesday.

Belleville attorney Jack Carey will file the suit on Tuesday on behalf of Sheri Coleman's mother, Angela DeCicco, and her brother, Mario Weiss. The suit will seek more than $50,000 in damages and an accounting of the possessions taken from the home.

"We want to make sure that Chris Coleman in no way financially benefits from the deaths of Sheri, Garett or Gavin," Carey said."

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/778619.html

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 05:43 PM
That was certainly interesting.....I can't say for a fact that Miss Motive and Treasure are two seperate people and so, once more, the Plot Thickens....I am not so sure that we will find a real treasure like Amber Frey with the alleged BF.

You are really getting too good at this is the problem! Too many cases have you at the point where you just zero in...don't know if that's a good or bad thing, for us or for you!:blushing: Maybe I should cut down on my "case load". How can it be a bad thing tho?

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 05:53 PM
Don't know if anyone saw this in the comments section of the latest story on the case in the St. Louis Post Dispatch...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/26849B90C930EBAA862575BE0007BAAF?OpenDocument

May 22, 2009 12:30PM CST (Page 91 of posted comments)
At one of the updates, a reporter asked whether the family had been strangled by hand or ligature, and the guy nodded and said wire ligature. Also in a post on one of these articles, CC's mom told someone at the viewing that sheri had a broken jaw. In addition to her black eyes and facial scratches, that shows maybe they weren't drugged.Also, someone wondered why the trampoline was taken by the Colemans. There's a legal term for it that I can't remember, but it could prove to be an irresistable temptation for some kid to play on, and if he got hurt, his family could sue CC. So I think they may have taken it to avoid any neighbor kid getting hurt. This was before his arrest, remember.

May 22, 2009 9:25AM CST (Page 51 of Posted Comments)
Sheri DID put up a fight. I know the people who own the funeral home in Chester and they said she had 2 black eyes and scratches on her face.


Sheri fought back with all she had -- just breaks my heart.

Obviously there was alot of trauma. Relative to the family stated that if they hadn't known it was SC they wouldn't have recognized her.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 05:59 PM
There are conflicting stories on injuries. I wish we knew the truth.

RiverRat
05-22-2009, 06:09 PM
:blushing: Maybe I should cut down on my "case load". How can it be a bad thing tho?

Only if it starts getting to be too much of a load to carry, but you do well at keeping it balanced, so you are still very much All Good and a wonderful asset to WBS...imo!

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 06:17 PM
Opinion8ed, you have only 5 more posts before you can receive/respond to pm's. *Please*... :blowkiss:

chicagofa13
05-22-2009, 06:21 PM
Here's one. :)

"Meanwhile, Enrico Mirabelli, spokesman for Sheri Coleman's family, said the family will file a wrongful death suit in Monroe County on Tuesday.

Belleville attorney Jack Carey will file the suit on Tuesday on behalf of Sheri Coleman's mother, Angela DeCicco, and her brother, Mario Weiss. The suit will seek more than $50,000 in damages and an accounting of the possessions taken from the home.

"We want to make sure that Chris Coleman in no way financially benefits from the deaths of Sheri, Garett or Gavin," Carey said."

http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/778619.html

I appreciate that, it is hard for me to find links and blackberry walking down the street. It is hard enough just posting!!

I think the family just wants to do all they can (as they should) to keep CC from benefiting in any way from his crimes.

analytical
05-22-2009, 06:22 PM
I don't think "Treasure" is MissMotive. Nose is too large and "other assets" seem a little larger than in the photo of MissMotive in the blue satin dress.

I read somewhere that photo is one of she and her mother with her mother cropped from the picture.

Someone found her mom's Facebook but I don't have the link. Called the mother a little "different" looking.

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 06:29 PM
This woman, who was a year behind SC in HS, is not the motive for a triple murder, imho. Geesh, I know it's just me, but I have a difficult time addressing her as "Miss Motive". There is absolutely nothing to point that she was right now. It just seems very unfair at this moment. If and when it comes out that she was, fine. Right now, it just feels wrong. For all we know she has been an asset to LE.

imvho

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 06:37 PM
I don't think "Treasure" is MissMotive. Nose is too large and "other assets" seem a little larger than in the photo of MissMotive in the blue satin dress.

I read somewhere that photo is one of she and her mother with her mother cropped from the picture.

Someone found her mom's Facebook but I don't have the link. Called the mother a little "different" looking.



http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=296891477&albumId=458958

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 06:46 PM
Opinion8ed, you have only 5 more posts before you can receive/respond to pm's. *Please*... :blowkiss:

okie dokie..don't know about pm's too much on here...and sorry if I am idle long i log off..

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 06:51 PM
okie dokie..don't know about pm's too much on here...and sorry if I am idle long i log off..

No worries!!! Never apologize for not being here. I ***need*** to make something right to you. It's important to me.

Sorry for the O/T everyone, but not all new persons know the post count thingy to receive pm's. My heartfelt apologies for taking the space here...

OL

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 06:53 PM
We have different opinions on his mistress/fiance. I will continue to include her in this mess because she is a huge part of it.

She could be helping LE now, but until approximately midnight (give or take a few hours) on May 5th, 2009 she was involved with a man who had methodically been setting up and preparing to murder his wife and children so he could turn around early next year and marry her. After the murders, he supposedly called her on his way back to the house before he went into his failed acting attempt at flailing and pretending to be the grieving father and husband. This is enough for me to question her role in this horrific scenario.

Even if she has been given Immunity by the SA's Office in exchange for her testimony, it really can't make up for what she has already done to Sheri, Gavin, and Garrett plus the family they left behind who dearly loved them. She betrayed them. She selfishly chose to put her own desires ahead of her friend and her children.

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 06:55 PM
No worries!!! Never apologize for not being here. I ***need*** to make something right to you. It's important to me.

Sorry for the O/T everyone, but not all new persons know the post count thingy to receive pm's. My heartfelt apologies for taking the space here...

OL

I am still trying to learn about this site..so be patient with me plz...if I screw up just let me know..I'm fine with criticism...is how we learn...

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 07:05 PM
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=296891477&albumId=458958Thanks! Her nose is rather large and a pushup bra does wonders. Her hair in the second photo with her brother appears darker (I think because of the product in it).

Still looks like her to me. If she lives in St. Petes like the poster said...it is only 25 minutes to Tampa. Maybe she doesn't work there anymore, but they could be using her photo. (So when did she quit?)

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 07:11 PM
okie dokie..don't know about pm's too much on here...and sorry if I am idle long i log off..When you sign in, click on the little box next to your name...it will keep you logged in for as long as you want to stay. :) (Unless it is your server that logs you off.)

Luckybuck
05-22-2009, 07:12 PM
This reminds me of the Chris Benoit case from 2007. He was the WWF wrestler who smothered his 7 y/o son, strangled his wife and then hung himself with his weights. It was so shocking because it seemed so out of character for this man. Authorities were looking into his anabolic steriod use/abuse.
I wonder if LE are drug testing CC for this and other substances.
1. Trips to Tampa
2. Possible girlfriend
3. Threats (could have been real, hoax, or paranoia)
4. Gold's Gym - (no implication that Golds has anything to do with this. If you are a serious body builder, weight trainer or want to get beefed up and buff - then this is the place to do it)

Don't know if CC had a temper or was controlling but steroid use/misuse is linked to hypomania and agression. "Roid Rage"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/27/wrestler/index.html

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 07:15 PM
I am still trying to learn about this site..so be patient with me plz...if I screw up just let me know..I'm fine with criticism...is how we learn...If you have questions...just ask. (You are doing fine. :))

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 07:18 PM
If you have questions...just ask. (You are doing fine. :))

Thank You..trying to be careful how I word things...I know sometimes when others read comments they take them different ways, as do I...

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 07:20 PM
Luckybuck~ Steriods have been mentioned a few times in this case. Anything is possible. I don't know if it would qualify as roid rage since he planned this for so long tho. How would that work?

It does have certain elements which are reminiscent of the Benoit case. So many other cases have parallels here, too.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 07:22 PM
Thank You..trying to be careful how I word things...I know sometimes when others read comments they take them different ways, as do I...LOL Boy, I run into that problem a lot! :waitasec:

pres101
05-22-2009, 07:25 PM
Dayum!!

Hmmmm...looking up GC's in our area. Oh wait...guess they only hire those 20something women, huh?! Another lost career opportunity. :bang: ROFLMAO

Sounds like age discrimination to me.:rolleyes:

LawRig
05-22-2009, 07:26 PM
Luckybuck~ Steriods have been mentioned a few times in this case. Anything is possible. I don't know if it would qualify as roid rage since he planned this for so long tho. How would that work?
It does have certain elements which are reminiscent of the Benoit case. So many other cases have parallels here, too.

(BBM)
I think it means he would have to have had long term use of steroids and was long time nuts.

nursebeeme
05-22-2009, 07:29 PM
hey everybody... just checking in and wanted to weigh in on the possibility of steroids in this case.. I personally do not see it. What I see is a conceited, arrogant, self~serving man with several personality disorders (yet to be diagnosed) who was so full of himself and HIS LIFE that he decided to take out his wife and everyone around her. I think that he planned this well ahead of time.. (please pass the ligatures, spray paint, and latex gloves).

To me this is much more sinister than a husband turning a gun or knife on his family in a sudden rage of violence. I think this was planned, coordinated, and carried out over time by this sick POS. (((Of course this is just my opinion.)))

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 07:30 PM
Sounds like age discrimination to me.:rolleyes:

I so seriously wish we did have a LOL button!

WholeLottaRosie
05-22-2009, 07:32 PM
Now I am off for the weekend. I hope everyone has a good safe one!

See ya Tuesday!

pres101
05-22-2009, 07:35 PM
HALLO HALLO

ATTN ALL SLEUTHERS!

In this thread, we have a note of a rumor from someone saying that Chris made the family dinner the night before (something he apparently didn't often do.) We also have a rumor that he was out playing with the kids in the yard the night before and waved to someone that drove by as if they were best friends, yet he had never ever waved to the person before.

Dinner
Waving as if friendly

This guy was on a high, he knew what he was going to be doing that night and he was just trying to touch up his facade before he did it.

Dontcha think?

IIRC The man CC waved to said that CC waved like he had known him for 20 years but that he had never waved to him before.

My first thoughts were that CC was acting the part of a loving father, so as to appear innocent.

I now think you too are correct. He was high on the fact of starting his new life.

adnoid
05-22-2009, 07:35 PM
Thank You..trying to be careful how I word things...I know sometimes when others read comments they take them different ways, as do I...

As our PoTM Lovejac says in her signature, "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 07:52 PM
Hello Pres101,

Well... ArtieG pointed out that people in the neighborhood might not know one another, but wave to them anyway. I get that -- I've done that. On the other hand, is their a difference between a friendly wave and a wave like you have known someone for 20 years? Maybe so, but I suppose the person who was waved to would have to be asked, "Did he have many opportunities to wave to you and never did until that night?" Also, I suppose he would remember that wave -- just how flamboyant a wave was it? I thought, "Hmm...was he placing himself in front of the house as the nice family man?" But I thought that he had been out there with the kids before and was thought to be that way, coaching the kids from the sidelines in the football program too.

It's possible that wave didn't mean what I thought it might, dunno. So...that rumor (if it was not also a truth) might not mean what I thought.

That still leaves us with the rumor that he made a family dinner which he never did usually (the cooking.) So -- if that is true, why did he do that? That one has me scratching my head. Was he trying to hone his cooking skills prior to hooking up with his new girlfriend? Maybe she and he liked to cook together, so he was trying a recipe on his family before his next meeting with her and so he could impress her? This one has me baffled -- unless, of course, he tainted that dinner to make them sick, groggy, poisoned? Scratching my head on the possibilities behind this rumor.

nursebeeme
05-22-2009, 07:56 PM
or the last supper?

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 07:59 PM
Hello Pres101,

Well... ArtieG pointed out that people in the neighborhood might not know one another, but wave to them anyway. I get that -- I've done that. On the other hand, is their a difference between a friendly wave and a wave like you have known someone for 20 years? Maybe so, but I suppose the person who was waved to would have to be asked, "Did he have many opportunities to wave to you and never did until that night?" Also, I suppose he would remember that wave -- just how flamboyant a wave was it? I thought, "Hmm...was he placing himself in front of the house as the nice family man?" But I thought that he had been out there with the kids before and was thought to be that way, coaching the kids from the sidelines in the football program too.

It's possible that wave didn't mean what I thought it might, dunno. So...that rumor (if it was not also a truth) might not mean what I thought.

That still leaves us with the rumor that he made a family dinner which he never did usually (the cooking.) So -- if that is true, why did he do that? That one has me scratching my head. Was he trying to hone his cooking skills prior to hooking up with his new girlfriend? Maybe she and he liked to cook together, so he was trying a recipe on his family before his next meeting with her and so he could impress her? This one has me baffled -- unless, of course, he tainted that dinner to make them sick, groggy, poisoned? Scratching my head on the possibilities behind this rumor.

Did anyone see the family outside after their evening meal? Maybe playing or doing yard work or were they shut up in the house after evening set in?

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 08:00 PM
Hello Pres101,

Well... ArtieG pointed out that people in the neighborhood might not know one another, but wave to them anyway. I get that -- I've done that. On the other hand, is their a difference between a friendly wave and a wave like you have known someone for 20 years? Maybe so, but I suppose the person who was waved to would have to be asked, "Did he have many opportunities to wave to you and never did until that night?" Also, I suppose he would remember that wave -- just how flamboyant a wave was it? I thought, "Hmm...was he placing himself in front of the house as the nice family man?" But I thought that he had been out there with the kids before and was thought to be that way, coaching the kids from the sidelines in the football program too.

It's possible that wave didn't mean what I thought it might, dunno. So...that rumor (if it was not also a truth) might not mean what I thought.

That still leaves us with the rumor that he made a family dinner which he never did usually (the cooking.) So -- if that is true, why did he do that? That one has me scratching my head. Was he trying to hone his cooking skills prior to hooking up with his new girlfriend? Maybe she and he liked to cook together, so he was trying a recipe on his family before his next meeting with her and so he could impress her? This one has me baffled -- unless, of course, he tainted that dinner to make them sick, groggy, poisoned? Scratching my head on the possibilities behind this rumor.


hmmm - maybe he cooked dinner so that Sheri could brag about what a great husband she had to her friends and family....Sheri could've had a habit of emailing &/or talking to friends in the evening and he hoped she'd mention it...part of keeping up appearances & reinforcing that he was 'good' to her in order to deflect suspicions.

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 08:00 PM
Oh...also Pres101... (and Opinion8ed)

Okey dokey now, it seems that both you and ummm...ummm Opinion8ed (sphew I almost lost the name :) have BOTH confirmed that you each had a source (source or sources?) saying that wedding invitations "were ordered?"

Can we clarify the wedding invitation thing? They were ordered? They were ordered and printed already? AND...

Pres101, you supplied a year? You said 2010? Was there a date and year? Do you know if these were ordered in Florida or in Illinois or MO.?

Can you be as detailed as possible about the specifics of what your source told you about the wedding invitations? Assuming it had a year, then it had a date. Assuming it had a date, it had a "place" where they would be married? Does your source know? Do they know the place is?

Can we squeeze someone for more details on this? OH...and were these "photo" type invitations with the happy bride and groom to be in them, if so -- was a photo supplied for the invitation?

TIA (thanks in advance)

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Hello Texas Mist,

Why you're looking charming this evening :) How doing?

You wrote:

Sheri could've had a habit of emailing &/or talking to friends in the evening and he hoped she'd mention it...part of keeping up appearances & reinforcing that he was 'good' to her in order to deflect suspicions.

Well, there was DEFINITELY a girlfriend who signed Sheri's guest book that referenced texting with her. We know she had a myspace -- so she was computer literate and used a computer, so my guess is she emailed too.

I could fathom her texting someone and saying, "Woah, Chris is fixing us dinner tonight, how sweet!" I might guess that there were texts or emails that LE found in the days and weeks before her death. Guess we'll have to wait to learn what these were.

Luckybuck
05-22-2009, 08:07 PM
Seriously Searching ~It does have certain elements which are reminiscent of the Benoit case. So many other cases have parallels here, too.
Trying to catch up on this case. Didn't know about all of the planning, just that the Benoit murders came to mind.
This just seems so poorly planned for a security guard/MP. It seems much more of an impulsive, raging act.

mikeysmommom
05-22-2009, 08:16 PM
We have different opinions on his mistress/fiance. I will continue to include her in this mess because she is a huge part of it.

She could be helping LE now, but until approximately midnight (give or take a few hours) on May 5th, 2009 she was involved with a man who had methodically been setting up and preparing to murder his wife and children so he could turn around early next year and marry her. After the murders, he supposedly called her on his way back to the house before he went into his failed acting attempt at flailing and pretending to be the grieving father and husband. This is enough for me to question her role in this horrific scenario.

Even if she has been given Immunity by the SA's Office in exchange for her testimony, it really can't make up for what she has already done to Sheri, Gavin, and Garrett plus the family they left behind who dearly loved them. She betrayed them. She selfishly chose to put her own desires ahead of her friend and her children.

Very well said :clap::clap::clap::clap:

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 08:17 PM
Oh...also Pres101... (and Opinion8ed)

Okey dokey now, it seems that both you and ummm...ummm Opinion8ed (sphew I almost lost the name :) have BOTH confirmed that you each had a source (source or sources?) saying that wedding invitations "were ordered?"

Can we clarify the wedding invitation thing? They were ordered? They were ordered and printed already? AND...

Pres101, you supplied a year? You said 2010? Was there a date and year? Do you know if these were ordered in Florida or in Illinois or MO.?

Can you be as detailed as possible about the specifics of what your source told you about the wedding invitations? Assuming it had a year, then it had a date. Assuming it had a date, it had a "place" where they would be married? Does your source know? Do they know the place is?

Can we squeeze someone for more details on this? OH...and were these "photo" type invitations with the happy bride and groom to be in them, if so -- was a photo supplied for the invitation?

TIA (thanks in advance)

I commented on that aways back that my source told me among other things in a serious mode that she had even ordered wedding invitations.We then discussed other things so there was no more discussion on it.
I hate to grill sources on alot of things,I don't want them to clam up on me.Usually when I speak to them again I get more details

Lindadanette
05-22-2009, 08:31 PM
OMG - She looks like a young Joyce Meyers! Look at that smile. Now I'm creeped out for sure - LOL. She played her best friend for a fool and then, at least by catalyst effect, enabled her psycho backstreet boyfriend to bash his wife's face in before he murdered her. What part of TL's role in this is sacred? I certainly haven't come across anything where LE, and especially, MCS has retracted their statements about her relationship with CC. . . (Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest) and speaking of chests, boob job? Opinions?

Today my son told me that he not only went to high school with Sheri, which I assumed, but that they had known each other since elementary school.

Back to TL, let's not forget that her ex, the husband of her formative years, was busted for running an unlicensed adult entertainment club when he was in his twenties. IMHO, the only reason Tara was waitressing instead of dancing is the passage of time. (Thus, the push up bra). Who knows what CC told her about the lifestyle he would provide for her - I'm still waiting for that part to come out.

OK, I'm done - Nice find on the photos!

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=296891477&albumID=458958&imageID=1458493

OrdinaryLife
05-22-2009, 09:15 PM
As our PoTM Lovejac says in her signature, "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."

A true phrase I once carried myself as a signature awhile back. Should have left it as a healthy posting reminder....

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 09:35 PM
Excerpt from an interesting article written by a coroner:

Scene conditions are basically observations made at the scene by the investigator. What was the state of dress of the individual? Were they dressed for bed or to go out in public? When was the last time that the mail was checked or the last time the newspaper was brought in? Did the most recent meal appear to be breakfast or dinner? All of these observations help to establish a timeline for the death itself.

Regardless of how many physiological or scene factors exist, the estimation of postmortem interval is just that—an estimation. Television makes it appear as though an investigator can determine time of death much more accurately than is possible in real life. It would be a gross misrepresentation of knowledge for someone to actually state unequivocally—as is often done on T.V.—that a death occurred at a certain time based on almost immediate observations. The only real accurate time of death is when medical personnel are present at the death or when a traumatic death is instantaneous and witnessed by another individual.

A more accurate way to label estimations of postmortem interval is to refer to the final determination as a “Window of Death" or “Window of Time" in which the death most likely occurred. At its most accurate, this window may be as broad as a few hours. Again, the longer the person appears to have been dead, then the longer the “Window of Death?" is going to be.

Still, the time of death issue is second only to the cause of death issue when it comes to questions posed to the death investigator. In most cases, the agency investigating the circumstances of the death will present the death investigator with a scenario that they believe occurred and asked whether or not the presentation of physiological changes observed by the investigator match the suspected time line of events. At best, the death investigator is only able to state whether or not the observed changes are consistent or inconsistent with the time line.

========
article in entirety here:

http://www.coronerstories.com/category/body-language/

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 09:46 PM
Sounds like age discrimination to me.:rolleyes:Hahahahaha~ (Maybe I need to hire Gloria Allred :P)

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Has anyone considered whether there are medical records of any kind on SC or CC as far as therapy or counseling sessions? I realize they would be private,but that doesn't necessarily mean leaks haven't occured. That happens alot,especially once the news breaks. Ex. being Farrah Fawcett's med records. Just a thought.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 09:52 PM
As our PoTM Lovejac says in her signature, "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."Uhm...what is a PoTM? Pot Mom? :eek: (I know what a Lovejac is! :waitasec: Hmmm...or do I?!)

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 09:54 PM
Uhm...what is a PoTM? Pot Mom? :eek: (I know what a Lovejac is! :waitasec: Hmmm...or do I?!)

Was wondering that myself..but thought maybe he ment post moderator...dunno

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 09:56 PM
Has anyone considered whether there are medical records of any kind on SC or CC as far as therapy or counseling sessions? I realize they would be private,but that doesn't necessarily mean leaks haven't occured. That happens alot,especially once the news breaks. Ex. being Farrah Fawcett's med records. Just a thought.I haven't heard of anything along those lines, but if they were going to counseling my guess would be they were "inhouse" with their Pastor at Destiny. (Also professional Christian Counselors are available outside the church, but could still be part of the congregation.)

In other words, we would have better luck of a leak if the records were actually medical.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Was wondering that myself..but thought maybe he ment post moderator...dunnoTrust me, you don't want to know the other things I came up with for PoTM. LOL

Texas Mist
05-22-2009, 10:00 PM
Was wondering that myself..but thought maybe he ment post moderator...dunno

Poster of The Month (?)...haven't checked her stats but that's my guess

southcitymom
05-22-2009, 10:00 PM
Uhm...what is a PoTM? Pot Mom? :eek: (I know what a Lovejac is! :waitasec: Hmmm...or do I?!)

PoTM= Poster of the Month

Opinion8ed
05-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Trust me, you don't want to know the other things I came up with for PoTM. LOL

Thank you for that visual/lol

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 10:23 PM
I find it difficult to believe that Sheri knew about Miss Motive and her husband. The reason I am mentioning this is because I am trying to envision what her last night was really like in that house. Supposedly, Chris plays outside with the boys for the last time while Sheri did what? Watched tv, talked on the phone, messed around on the computer, or read a book maybe. If Chris did decide to make dinner (I don't see Sheri wanting to sit down to a meal with him if she knew about MM even for the boys' sakes). They eat dinner together and Sheri probably cleans up afterwards. The boys would be taking showers and getting ready for school the next day.

I would imagine their bedtime was around 8:30-9:00ish. Since Sheri would have to get up early to get them ready for school and drive them, she may not stay up too late. However, Chris was used to working nights so his schedule may make it hard for Sheri to retire early when he was home. Unless Sheri communicated with someone on the outside after 9:00 pm then it takes us to the screaming someone may have heard about 3:00 am. What took place during those last hours? She was in her bed so she did settle in for the night possibly. What did Chris do for 5-6 hours while everyone was asleep? Talk to MM? Get on the computer? Was he relaxed? Nervous?

He had to take time to gather things up for the murders. The gloves, the spray paint, the wire (or whatever ligature), possibly mask, clothes, and then he had to make the last decision to act.

SeriouslySearching
05-22-2009, 10:25 PM
:clap:
Poster of The Month (?)...haven't checked her stats but that's my guessLOL Well...Congratulations, Lovejac!!!! I never would have guessed that one!! Bravo!!

:woohoo::clap::clap:

Snowlover77
05-22-2009, 10:49 PM
I find it difficult to believe that Sheri knew about Miss Motive and her husband. The reason I am mentioning this is because I am trying to envision what her last night was really like in that house. Supposedly, Chris plays outside with the boys for the last time while Sheri did what? Watched tv, talked on the phone, messed around on the computer, or read a book maybe. If Chris did decide to make dinner (I don't see Sheri wanting to sit down to a meal with him if she knew about MM even for the boys' sakes). They eat dinner together and Sheri probably cleans up afterwards. The boys would be taking showers and getting ready for school the next day.

I would imagine their bedtime was around 8:30-9:00ish. Since Sheri would have to get up early to get them ready for school and drive them, she may not stay up too late. However, Chris was used to working nights so his schedule may make it hard for Sheri to retire early when he was home. Unless Sheri communicated with someone on the outside after 9:00 pm then it takes us to the screaming someone may have heard about 3:00 am. What took place during those last hours? She was in her bed so she did settle in for the night possibly. What did Chris do for 5-6 hours while everyone was asleep? Talk to MM? Get on the computer? Was he relaxed? Nervous?

He had to take time to gather things up for the murders. The gloves, the spray paint, the wire (or whatever ligature), possibly mask, clothes, and then he had to make the last decision to act.

I agree. I don't believe she knew anything about the girlfriend. It was prolly a normal evening inside their home that last night. Sherri was found dead in her bed and I think she most likely was sleeping soundly when she was attacked. What Chris did early that evening is anyone's guess really. I am inclined to believe though that he had the items he needed to carry out his plan. I believe he had been planning these killings for prolly several months now. We can only speculate as to what hsi real motive was in this...but imo it is the standard,"don't want a divorce with the child suport and alimony type thing. Just easier and more appealing financially.
It is sickening but it is many times the reason why wives and children are murdered.

Kimster
05-22-2009, 10:56 PM
We recently had a case here where the husband gunned down his wife in a church parking lot, as everyong was going inside, in front of her mom and son no less. Her family immediately did the same thing. They were able to prevent him from using his wife's estate (half equity in home, etc) to pay for his defense.

Ack, another loser he was. His wife had gone on vacation with the kids for a week or so and he moved his GF in during that time. They didn't even try to hide it from the neighbor's. Wife comes home, neighbors spill the beans and wife files for divorce and kicks him out. That's why he killed her. His dad is a religious zealot and kidnapped the grandkid, took the money, etc. it got messy. But the judge sided with the wife's family on everything, because this guy and his family are nuts. Guess what? The GF immediately got engaged to him while his was sitting in jail and stuck by him for a long time.

That's it! I'm NEVER getting married again! :eek:

Kimster
05-22-2009, 11:19 PM
I can't get over CC cooking dinner for the family on that last night for MANY reasons! I'm still not convinced this was "planned", I guess. The paint could already have been there and was a lousy afterthought. I feel he and Sheri got in a fight and he killed her and then killed the kids to fit with the SODDI. I can't see how he EVER thought he could justify marrying Miss Motive under the circumstances of his job AND MM's past.

JMO

Kimster
05-22-2009, 11:41 PM
What if CC made up the "threats" story because someone told SC about Miss Motive and so he said "Honey, someone has been threatening me and now they want you to think I'm cheating on you". And then he made up the rest to back up his lie.

Just seems that the narcisstic tend to make up stories on the fly.

Wrinkles
05-22-2009, 11:56 PM
Hello All,

Whoever investigated this case knows precisely the positions of the bodies, the manner of death -- we do not. What we have been told is that it was ligature strangulation. The ME will know whether the ligature was put on before or after death...

The murderer of Sheri, Gavin and Garrett either brutally murdered them and then laced them with a ligature (as far as we are told) in order to stage some type of "how I kill 3 people" kinda thing OR he picked up each of their heads and laced them with a ligature and then brutally murdered them that way.

A ligature is not something that you lay across someone, you have to "put it around them." This is a definite, planning murderer who does this.

Imagine someone walking in to a sleeping child... How do you get the ligature around them? You have to "work at it."

When I think of what it takes to ligature strangle 3 separate people, it makes me angry beyond belief at the wickedness. Cold blooded, sickening, disgusting piece...

If any of us can lend a clue to get the monster who did this put down, we should.

Lovejac
05-23-2009, 12:04 AM
As our PoTM Lovejac says in her signature, "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."


Thank's adnoid :blowkiss:. My wise and awesome sister, SCM said that to me a looooong time ago and it stuck with me. It is a wonderful saying!

pres101
05-23-2009, 12:09 AM
Oh...also Pres101... (and Opinion8ed)

Okey dokey now, it seems that both you and ummm...ummm Opinion8ed (sphew I almost lost the name :) have BOTH confirmed that you each had a source (source or sources?) saying that wedding invitations "were ordered?"

Can we clarify the wedding invitation thing? They were ordered? They were ordered and printed already? AND...

Pres101, you supplied a year? You said 2010? Was there a date and year? Do you know if these were ordered in Florida or in Illinois or MO.?

Can you be as detailed as possible about the specifics of what your source told you about the wedding invitations? Assuming it had a year, then it had a date. Assuming it had a date, it had a "place" where they would be married? Does your source know? Do they know the place is?

Can we squeeze someone for more details on this? OH...and were these "photo" type invitations with the happy bride and groom to be in them, if so -- was a photo supplied for the invitation?

TIA (thanks in advance)

Wrinkles, I did hear a month and it was early 2010. That is as specific I am going to get. There was no specific place mentioned, just the date and that they had been printed. I am not going to pressure my source for info. If I hear more and feel comfortable giving it, I will.

I didn't mind confirming the story but there is a trust issue here. I didn't feel like I should break the story but hey, once it is out it's out.

adnoid
05-23-2009, 12:20 AM
Uhm...what is a PoTM? Pot Mom? :eek: (I know what a Lovejac is! :waitasec: Hmmm...or do I?!)

Poster of The Month

DairyGirl
05-23-2009, 12:24 AM
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=296891477&albumId=458958

Heartbreaking :( Happy Mothers day wishes from Sheri 2008. How betrayed was she?

mikeysmommom
05-23-2009, 12:31 AM
I have not caught up so I do now know if anyone has seen this.Poster from PD who has been right before.

Bill Brasski May 22, 2009 3:06PM CS

Here is an interesting piece of info I heard last night from a reliable source that hasn't been posted yet to my knowledge. Chris was at a gym in waterloo working out the evening before the murders with one of his boys.

This brings the whole "i was at the gym" excuse into question. its not uncommon for people to work out in the early morning, but it is uncommon to workout in the evening and then wake up about 8 hours later in the early morning and go workout again.

adnoid
05-23-2009, 12:39 AM
That's it! I'm NEVER getting married again! :eek:

Men are scum.

Opinion8ed
05-23-2009, 12:50 AM
I have not caught up so I do now know if anyone has seen this.Poster from PD who has been right before.

Bill Brasski May 22, 2009 3:06PM CS

Here is an interesting piece of info I heard last night from a reliable source that hasn't been posted yet to my knowledge. Chris was at a gym in waterloo working out the evening before the murders with one of his boys.

This brings the whole "i was at the gym" excuse into question. its not uncommon for people to work out in the early morning, but it is uncommon to workout in the evening and then wake up about 8 hours later in the early morning and go workout again.

What page is that on, I'm not locating it.

Texas Mist
05-23-2009, 12:53 AM
Heartbreaking :( Happy Mothers day wishes from Sheri 2008. How betrayed was she?

it's awful...Sheri left this sweet message too:

Dec 17 2007 4:58 PM

How in the world are you?
I miss you guys :(
Hope all is well
Love, Squeaky

mikeysmommom
05-23-2009, 12:54 AM
What page is that on, I'm not locating it.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/26849B90C930EBAA862575BE0007BAAF?OpenDocument#tp_n ewCommentAnchor

page 140 if you have 3 comments per page

daisy.faithfull
05-23-2009, 01:14 AM
I'm catching up, but I'm having trouble accessing the article "Standards Employed To Determined Time Of Death" from the link provided by Ananlytical. I keep on clicking on the "Method" part of the title and nothing is happening. I googled and found an article by the same name at this address: http://www.arrakis.es/~jacoello/date.pdf and wanted to know if its the same one.

Thank you!

DomCasual
05-23-2009, 01:44 AM
We recently had a case here where the husband gunned down his wife in a church parking lot, as everyong was going inside, in front of her mom and son no less. Her family immediately did the same thing. They were able to prevent him from using his wife's estate (half equity in home, etc) to pay for his defense.

Ack, another loser he was. His wife had gone on vacation with the kids for a week or so and he moved his GF in during that time. They didn't even try to hide it from the neighbor's. Wife comes home, neighbors spill the beans and wife files for divorce and kicks him out. That's why he killed her. His dad is a religious zealot and kidnapped the grandkid, took the money, etc. it got messy. But the judge sided with the wife's family on everything, because this guy and his family are nuts. Guess what? The GF immediately got engaged to him while his was sitting in jail and stuck by him for a long time.

I'm up in Draper. That whole deal fascinated me. David Ragsdale is one of the most pathetic people I've ever seen. His defense was going to be that a nurse practitioner prescribed him too many meds for depression, and the meds made him crazy. His sister went on this media campaign that attempted to portray him as a victim in the whole thing - even went as far as to say his wife kind of brought it on herself, as she had really encouraged him to see the nurse practitioner. Then, a few months later, his attorneys petitioned the court to force the jail to bump his meds - it seems he was feeling depressed (jail apparently does that - go figure).

Fortunately, it seems he finally realized that emptying a gun into his wife's body in front of her mother and dozens of witnesses doesn't put you in a great position to mount a defense, and he pleaded guilty. The civil suit played a large part in that - almost immediately after the murder, Ragsdale hired Greg Skordas, one of Utah's highest profile criminal defense attorneys. Ragsdale had been making somewhere north of $250K/year prior to the murder, and was going to use the family's assets to pay for his defense. After the civil filing tied up those assets, he was forced to get a public defender. I think he's in prison now for a minimum of 20 years. And from what I understand, he's very unlikely to ever get out.

Here's (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/248582/Husband_Kills_Wife_Outside_Utah_Church) a short article about it, if anyone is interested.

What a scumbag.

mikeysmommom
05-23-2009, 02:14 AM
I'm up in Draper. That whole deal fascinated me. David Ragsdale is one of the most pathetic people I've ever seen. His defense was going to be that a nurse practitioner prescribed him too many meds for depression, and the meds made him crazy. His sister went on this media campaign that attempted to portray him as a victim in the whole thing - even went as far as to say his wife kind of brought it on herself, as she had really encouraged him to see the nurse practitioner. Then, a few months later, his attorneys petitioned the court to force the jail to bump his meds - it seems he was feeling depressed (jail apparently does that - go figure).

Fortunately, it seems he finally realized that emptying a gun into his wife's body in front of her mother and dozens of witnesses doesn't put you in a great position to mount a defense, and he pleaded guilty. The civil suit played a large part in that - almost immediately after the murder, Ragsdale hired Greg Skordas, one of Utah's highest profile criminal defense attorneys. Ragsdale had been making somewhere north of $250K/year prior to the murder, and was going to use the family's assets to pay for his defense. After the civil filing tied up those assets, he was forced to get a public defender. I think he's in prison now for a minimum of 20 years. And from what I understand, he's very unlikely to ever get out.

Here's (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/248582/Husband_Kills_Wife_Outside_Utah_Church) a short article about it, if anyone is interested.

What a scumbag.

Your right............He is a scumbag:eek:

SuziQ
05-23-2009, 03:21 AM
DomCasual, welcome to WS!

ETA: and I see I was incorrect about how many children they had. They had two.

daisy.faithfull
05-23-2009, 05:37 AM
o my goodness! I can't believe that I am totally caught up! And no one is here.... :crazy: I have a ton of notes, the posts everyone is writing are really impressive!

Well, I guess since it was discussed not to long ago, i'll pitch my two cents in about how the affair motivated CC...

Tara wanted Sheri's life. Chris didn't want his life with Sheri. Tara thought that would get Sheri's life if she had Chris. Chris thought.... well, Chris wasn't thinking, he just wanted freedom or just wanted to feel free.

Tara is pressuring Chris to leave Sheri. I'm not sure if Chris ever wanted to leave his life with Sheri, or if he just wanted to fantasize that he could. Tara threatens to tell Sheri, Chris feeds her a line about getting married to keep her off his back while he figures out what to do. At this point it gets real for Chris, Tara starts ordering wedding invites and Chris realizes that he is not leaving one life to go live another, he is leaving his life with Sheri to live that same life with Tara.

Not sure at what point he set the plan in motion or if CC actually thought that he was going to go through with it when he did. Not sure either what finally triggered the actual murders, but I wonder if it had anything to do with CC realizing he was not going to be free with Tara. That even if he could free himself from Sheri and the boys, there was no escaping the expectations of his family to do the right thing.

I think SS said something about the family blaming Tara for what CC did to his family. As I was reading one of the articles about CC and his mistress a reader made the comment implying that these murders never would've happen if those women weren't running around tempting men.:eek: Is this attitude apart of the cultish type of religious beliefs in Columbia? Because it seems that a child growing up with a father who's followers give him sports cars and money with no questions asked is going to grow up with some entitlement issues. If his father had that kind of authority with those outside of the family, I can't even image the authority he had within the family.

Anyway, I gotta get to bed.

EDIT: Knowing what we know of Sheri, if Tara really wanted to live a healthier life Sheri would have been behind her every step of the way.

TallCoolOne
05-23-2009, 07:20 AM
I believe and please correct me if I am wrong on NG's show Dr. Perperer (sp) disagreed with Biden's statement. Don't know if it was tod or something else. IIMOYou don't suppose he's looking for a job with the defense, do you?

fran
05-23-2009, 07:35 AM
IMHO, Dr. Perper has been auditioning for high-profile cases ever since the Ana Nicole thing. This guy didn't have the autopsy report, hasn't seen it, and had no idea what the ME and Dr. Baden were even looking at. He claims it could be inaccurate because of another test or something. But, from what I've observed, he has no idea if the test was run or not. He's ASSUMING it was not.

From all of the reports, etc., I've read about TOD, there is usually a two hour window. Dr. Baden gave that window, 5:00 a.m., which is PRIOR to the accused leaving the home, per his own words.

I have to tell you, I liked NG at one time. But I've seen so much misp-reporting on her show. I mean, when we follow a case here, we find out facts, lots of times before the MSM. I can't even count the number of times I've watched NG and even Greta, and seen them state something that is absolutely not true and even the contrary.

I guess it's good entertainment for dramatic purposes.

JMHO
fran

TallCoolOne
05-23-2009, 08:08 AM
IMHO, Dr. Perper has been auditioning for high-profile cases ever since the Ana Nicole thing. This guy didn't have the autopsy report, hasn't seen it, and had no idea what the ME and Dr. Baden were even looking at. He claims it could be inaccurate because of another test or something. But, from what I've observed, he has no idea if the test was run or not. He's ASSUMING it was not.

From all of the reports, etc., I've read about TOD, there is usually a two hour window. Dr. Baden gave that window, 5:00 a.m., which is PRIOR to the accused leaving the home, per his own words.

I have to tell you, I liked NG at one time. But I've seen so much misp-reporting on her show. I mean, when we follow a case here, we find out facts, lots of times before the MSM. I can't even count the number of times I've watched NG and even Greta, and seen them state something that is absolutely not true and even the contrary.

I guess it's good entertainment for dramatic purposes.

JMHO
fran
Yuppers, unfortunately so often it is reduced to entertainment. They worry more about ratings than accuracy. It's pretty bad when posters on a crime board know the details better then the people who are supposed to be reporting them!!!

I think Perper is hoping this will land him a job.

waterlooinspector
05-23-2009, 08:50 AM
I have not caught up so I do now know if anyone has seen this.Poster from PD who has been right before.

Bill Brasski May 22, 2009 3:06PM CS

Here is an interesting piece of info I heard last night from a reliable source that hasn't been posted yet to my knowledge. Chris was at a gym in waterloo working out the evening before the murders with one of his boys.

This brings the whole "i was at the gym" excuse into question. its not uncommon for people to work out in the early morning, but it is uncommon to workout in the evening and then wake up about 8 hours later in the early morning and go workout again.

There are a couple of "work-out" centers here in Waterloo. One of them is very new, right off Hwy 3 by the athletic fields. Neither of them are very busy in the evenings. I am sure as high profile as this case has been, LE would have checked out that possibility.

SeriouslySearching
05-23-2009, 09:27 AM
Thank's adnoid :blowkiss:. My wise and awesome sister, SCM said that to me a looooong time ago and it stuck with me. It is a wonderful saying!SCM is a very intelligent woman. :) (Must run in the family!)

SeriouslySearching
05-23-2009, 09:43 AM
Hello All,

Whoever investigated this case knows precisely the positions of the bodies, the manner of death -- we do not. What we have been told is that it was ligature strangulation. The ME will know whether the ligature was put on before or after death...

The murderer of Sheri, Gavin and Garrett either brutally murdered them and then laced them with a ligature (as far as we are told) in order to stage some type of "how I kill 3 people" kinda thing OR he picked up each of their heads and laced them with a ligature and then brutally murdered them that way.

A ligature is not something that you lay across someone, you have to "put it around them." This is a definite, planning murderer who does this.

Imagine someone walking in to a sleeping child... How do you get the ligature around them? You have to "work at it."

When I think of what it takes to ligature strangle 3 separate people, it makes me angry beyond belief at the wickedness. Cold blooded, sickening, disgusting piece...

If any of us can lend a clue to get the monster who did this put down, we should.Ligature strangulation was the COD per Major Connor. It means the ligatures were put on before the death and even with other injuries, this was the final act.

I agree it took planning, time, and force. He could have changed his mind after Sheri and before he went into each room. He had 3 chances. Instead, he made conscious decisions to murder each one. (There goes the Insanity Plea) There is no doubt he is all of the above: Cold blooded, sickening, and is a disgusting POS!

SeriouslySearching
05-23-2009, 09:49 AM
Yuppers, unfortunately so often it is reduced to entertainment. They worry more about ratings than accuracy. It's pretty bad when posters on a crime board know the details better then the people who are supposed to be reporting them!!!

I think Perper is hoping this will land him a job.I blame her producers and staff for not fact checking. NG goes into the studio thinking they have their stories straight. She needs to crack down on them when she is confronted with the facts after the shows. She also needs to tell them to read here to insure what they are saying are not just yesterday's old rumors we have already debunked. ;)