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View Full Version : Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt7



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murdershewrote
05-28-2009, 03:56 PM
there's only one reason I can think of....he's dumber than a post.

MCDRAW
05-28-2009, 04:11 PM
True....but like it or not, JM and the ministry have become part of this case. She showed up at the crime scene. Her equipment was seized by LE. She owned the property where Chris was carrying on with Miss Motive. The threats were supposed to be towards her in the letters and in the crime scene. Her boarding pass showed up on his desk at the crime scene. JM and JMM are woven throughout his story and it raises some definite issues here, imo.


You are correct but she was brought into this by Chris Coleman's deceit, his planning, and his behavior. Not because she did anything wrong. If there is proof that Joyce Myers did anything wrong then I'll join the band wagon of bashing her and her ministry. But right now all I see is that she was used by someone that she has known from childhood and that worked for her. He used her to carry out his evil plot. I see her as one of Chris Coleman's victim's too. Luckily she got to live.

escamoles
05-28-2009, 04:14 PM
http://www.cbgundaker.com/search/advanced/detail.jsp?type=res&mls_num=90012365

I could not find it my heart to ask the poor for money, if I lived like this.
I would think I would go straight to hell.
IMODid I miss something? Why is JM selling her house?

OrdinaryLife
05-28-2009, 04:20 PM
It is interesting that CC kept the receipt for as long as he did. I also think it's one of those "things" that only CC knows the reason why and it may never make any sense to us. No matter the argument his lawyers will ~try~ to present. It will be weak at best, imho.

As far as all the other financial stuff goes, I believe that LE/MCS had already done much of that homework before CC was arrested for triple murder. It helped aid/build part of their case. IMHO, CC had only tunnel vision and that was one for only himself. To be that absorbed regarding his wants, needs, "loss", and justification for all *he chose* to do is a person who does not function on a healthy human level. CC is not, in any way, mentally ill. He is walking s.o.b. who has only cared for himself. Sadly, many walk among us. How scary is that???

OrdinaryLife
05-28-2009, 04:23 PM
there's only one reason I can think of....he's dumber than a post.

I don't think CC is that dumb. He just got sloppy because of a time frame he had not planned on. Besides, I think CC has always thought he was smarter than many. That's the arrogance of self importance, imho.

MCDRAW
05-28-2009, 04:33 PM
I don't think CC is that dumb. He just got sloppy because of a time frame he had not planned on. Besides, I think CC has always thought he was smarter than many. That's the arrogance of self importance, imho.


I agree. I don't think he is stupid. I believe most murderers think they are covering their tracks well but they always miss something. He missed a lot but I like to think God may have helped a little in his getting caught. Or some may say Karma. Whatever, I'm glad he made so many mistakes and was caught so fast.

WholeLottaRosie
05-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I agree. I don't think he is stupid. I believe most murderers think they are covering their tracks well but they always miss something. He missed a lot but I like to think God may have helped a little in his getting caught. Or some may say Karma. Whatever, I'm glad he made so many mistakes and was caught so fast.


And I still believe that CC thought he has set this up with the Columbia PD by giving/reporting the alleged threats. I think he really didn't think of or plan on the MCS getting involved, but, thought he could put this all by the Columbia PD, who probably are good cops, just don't have much experience with major crimes.

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 04:50 PM
Did I miss something? Why is JM selling her house?I don't know, but it reminds me of a funeral home for some reason. Very sterile and fru fru. ;)

Lovejac
05-28-2009, 04:52 PM
Hmmm...I think I will get my certification online as a preacher and name WS as my "religion". ;) At least I could write off my expenses for the computer and other sundry things like coca-cola, ciggies, and other supplies. LOL

:eek: you smoke? :eek:

Lovejac
05-28-2009, 04:56 PM
I don't get it, leaving the receipt and gloves in the house is such an obvious mistake. Does anybody think maybe he was high on drugs when he did this? I hadn't heard of LE doing any sort of alcohol or drug test on him when they first met up with him and found the bodies.


In the SW I noticed there was an energy drink on one of the tables in the master bedroom.

curiositycat
05-28-2009, 05:05 PM
I don't know why this is about Joyce Myers. If someone that works for me comits a crime. I don't think that makes me responsible. If one of my friends comits a crime, I don't think that makes me responsible. She is not in the media saying he is innocent. Why is this about her ministry? It appears that CC is a killer who happened to work for Joyce Myers. Maybe they were even family friends. Maybe she should have seen what he was but it appears Chris Coleman apparently fooled a lot of people. Including the wife and children that loved him. I just hate to see people blamed other than the killer. It's no one's fault but Chris Coleman's. He made his choices! JMO

Interesting that you bring this up. I was wondering the other day why it is that we all try to find excuses for these people. Is it because most of us realize that no one is perfect and that we all walk around in suits of flesh..none of us is "God"?? We have been taught to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, forgive..ect.

I am beginning to believe, the more of these murders I see, that some folks are just plain EVIL. Life is all about choices. CC could have chosen to simply get a divorce. The EVIL in him allowed him to make a choice most of us would ever make.

The book "People of the Lie" by M.Scott Peck, MD is really informative when trying to understand why terrible things happen to good people.

Bottom line, IMO, this is CCs fault. No one but him caused this tragedy. When presented with a choice to make HE chose the wrong one because of his basically evil nature. I hope he lives the rest of his life with the faces of Sheri and his sons, in his mind,tormenting him.

JMHO

Melly53
05-28-2009, 05:09 PM
It is interesting that CC kept the receipt for as long as he did. I also think it's one of those "things" that only CC knows the reason why and it may never make any sense to us. No matter the argument his lawyers will ~try~ to present. It will be weak at best, imho.

As far as all the other financial stuff goes, I believe that LE/MCS had already done much of that homework before CC was arrested for triple murder. It helped aid/build part of their case. IMHO, CC had only tunnel vision and that was one for only himself. To be that absorbed regarding his wants, needs, "loss", and justification for all *he chose* to do is a person who does not function on a healthy human level. CC is not, in any way, mentally ill. He is walking s.o.b. who has only cared for himself. Sadly, many walk among us. How scary is that???

Thinking about the evidence items found in the house, I believe CC left them there to be found, so that in the event LE ever looked at him for the crime, he could claim he was being framed. He just didn't count on them finding the evidence he tried to dispose of that would really tie him to the crime. JMO

Lindadanette
05-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Maybe. You know, when I (have in the past) became disillusioned by what went on in a group I was part of, I quit. I didn't kill anyone.

Yeah, me neither - but I will say that it took a long time to get the taste out of my mouth:yuck: I think there's something to be said about the "power structure" in the Coleman clan and their affiliation with JMM. If JM has known CC since he was a boy, we can assume she's known BC & KC as well. It occurs to me that there's a distinct appetite for control in these boys. I don't know what KC does, but the rest of them are all in (were in) postions where they have an unusual amount of control over other people.

JM has this same unusual power to an immense degree. I don't know what kind of power DM exerts from behind the throne, but it's still behind the throne and that's got to rankle someone like CC who was probably brought up to think that it's wrong - the threats he was making had to come from somewhere in his POS brain!.

I don't know anything about their mom, but I can't help but wonder how she has been treated too. She looks a million miles away in every photo I've seen.

impatientredhead
05-28-2009, 05:59 PM
It is interesting that CC kept the receipt for as long as he did. I also think it's one of those "things" that only CC knows the reason why and it may never make any sense to us. No matter the argument his lawyers will ~try~ to present. It will be weak at best, imho.

As far as all the other financial stuff goes, I believe that LE/MCS had already done much of that homework before CC was arrested for triple murder. It helped aid/build part of their case. IMHO, CC had only tunnel vision and that was one for only himself. To be that absorbed regarding his wants, needs, "loss", and justification for all *he chose* to do is a person who does not function on a healthy human level. CC is not, in any way, mentally ill. He is walking s.o.b. who has only cared for himself. Sadly, many walk among us. How scary is that???

He may have bought the paint months ago as the receipt indicates, but the can itself may have remained with receipt while he waited for whatever he was waiting for to attack. Grabs the bag with the paint, tosses the receipt where they found it and does the worlds worst crime staging. The mailbox, the phones, the throwing of evidence along the path he admits to being on, well he is either stupid (many of us thought Casey Anthony was a mastermind during the months they couldn't find the body only to find out there was no real planning or thought involved at all) or he truly believed his own hype and thought the police would walk in, accept the scene the way CC interpreted, and that there would be no investigation of him.

Which again lends itself to stupid since all spouses are investigated in this type of situation and if the police don't conduct that investigation I guarantee you when you ask the insurance company for their cash, they WILL investigate.

What I see in CC is sneaky, manipulative, self centered, and he projected his own belief that his family was disposable and of no value on to those around him. It was no big deal to him, he had laid out all the clues that would let the police write their reports, and from there who would care about his worthless wife that he had no intent of splitting assets with and the kids he had no intent of raising in her absence. That inability to predict *normal* human response to the situation (again like Casey) did him in.

Another day another sociopath.
It is really too bad they are not more suicidal instead of homicidal.

CountryGirl
05-28-2009, 06:04 PM
Wrinkles,

First off, thank you for your posts! I enjoy your gift of looking over every detail. My contribution is usually more psych-related and it intrigues me to watch those who are forenthics-gifted!

Can we go back in time to when the bales were being discussed? I remember discussing them and thinking you guys were beating a dead horse. Now I'm rethinking that, of course! There were bales of hay in the backyard for shooting arrows? Were all the bales still bound after the murders took place? Was LE looking over the bales? I'm not sure why they were brought up in the first place.

Thanks!

I haven't caught up on all the threads as I was out of town during the weekend, but the twine used to tie the bales of hay/straw in the back yard was like the twine LE found on the highway they called a "noose". I have tons of it here as we have horses and they don't use baling wire now, just the twine...at least our feed store's suppliers do.

Perhaps one of the bales was missing twine. Our bales have three separate twine ties around the bale. If LE noticed one of the pieces of twine missing they could think it was the murder weapon, therefore search for the same twine--which they evidently found. Won't be hard to determine if it came from the same bale from the house.

impatientredhead
05-28-2009, 06:07 PM
I haven't caught up on all the threads as I was out of town during the weekend, but the twine used to tie the bales of hay/straw in the back yard was like the twine LE found on the highway they called a "noose". I have tons of it here as we have horses and they don't use baling wire now, just the twine...at least our feed store's suppliers do.

Perhaps one of the bales was missing twine. Our bales have three separate twine ties around the bale. If LE noticed one of the pieces of twine missing they could think it was the murder weapon, therefore search for the same twine--which they evidently found. Won't be hard to determine if it came from the same bale from the house.

The twine comes up later in the search warrants. I think they went searching the route he admitted to driving looking for any evidence he dumped (since they knew who killed the family immediately). They found the twine noose and then went back for the bales that are tied with what appears to be the identical twine.

Melanie
05-28-2009, 06:11 PM
I don't know, but it reminds me of a funeral home for some reason. Very sterile and fru fru. ;)

LOL - just what I was thinking. No matter how much money - that is not a home, it's a moseleum (sp?). I like houses that are lived in, where you don't have to worry about walking on the carpet!

:)

Is this the house CC and MM had their affairs?

TallCoolOne
05-28-2009, 06:16 PM
http://www.cbgundaker.com/search/advanced/detail.jsp?type=res&mls_num=90012365

I could not find it my heart to ask the poor for money, if I lived like this.
I would think I would go straight to hell.
IMOHoly sheep chit batman!! I have to agree. Asking others for their money so one can live like that is disgusting IMO. And, that's all I have to say about that!

fmrchesterguy
05-28-2009, 06:23 PM
...
JMO - How can anyone, with all the evidence, think CC is innocent? (Other than maybe CC's parents and siblings.) Hmmmmm....... I just can't find anything in the evidence that screams (or even whimpers) innocence. I know they need to find jurors who have open minds (I wouldn't be used on the jury - my mind is no longer open, and I started out with the "innocent" side), but with all the publicity on this case, I think that's going to be very hard to do.
...
BBM


Your premise is flawed, none of us has all the evidence. We have a few police reports sprinkled into a sea of rumor and supposition.

Some of us on here know Chris and his family, and for whatever flaws they may have, I've yet to see where a single person that knew Chris has said 'I knew there was something weird about that guy'

Not one.

So while the 'evidence' that is public is very much stacked against Chris, I am still riding the fence. I can't say that he is certainly innocent, because I wasn't there, I haven't seen all the evidence, or lack there of. I can't say he is certainly guilty, because, again, I haven't seen all the evidence against him, and neither has anyone else here.

In my mind it will all come down to how firmly TOD can be pinned down, and weather or not Chris was home at that time. I hope the trial is swift, thorough, and fair.

If Chris is innocent, I pray that his defense team can prove this without a shadow of doubt so this dark cloud does not hang over his head for the rest of his life.

If he is guilty, then the State of Illinois needs to rethink it's moratorium on the death penalty, because never has a case qualified so greatly.

IMNSHO

CountryGirl
05-28-2009, 06:24 PM
:behindbar
:eek:Maybe the reason he called for the welfare check was so he would not be recorded on a 911 call.

And, he didn't want to be the one to find the bodies. Much better for LE to find them so he could play the devastated spouse.

waterlooinspector
05-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Holy sheep chit batman!! I have to agree. Asking others for their money so one can live like that is disgusting IMO. And, that's all I have to say about that!

I still cannot get over a heavy layer of cams and security in the master bedrooms. Makes me wonder what is in the walk in closet....

chestergal
05-28-2009, 06:26 PM
Here is a good large picture of a straw bale tied.
http://earthandstraw.com/wp-content/uploads/strawbale.jpg
It takes about 8ft of bale twine for each tie.
So you can get about 16ft of bale twine from one bale.

waterlooinspector
05-28-2009, 06:30 PM
Ok...I have finally caught up.

We had a power failure last night in Waterloo and I went to one of the local watering holes here in town that did have power. The "loose" talk here among local LE is that CC and MM in FL have been sexting each other.....rather vivid evidence caught on their cell phones.....lord knows CC had enough phones to set one aside for more mundane pleasures.

And who said teens were the only ones having fun sexting each other....

who knew?
05-28-2009, 06:34 PM
Ok...I have finally caught up.

We had a power failure last night in Waterloo and I went to one of the local watering holes here in town that did have power. The "loose" talk here among local LE is that CC and MM in FL have been sexting each other.....rather vivid evidence caught on their cell phones.....lord knows CC had enough phones to set one aside for more mundane pleasures.

And who said teens were the only ones having fun sexting each other....

sex addiction????? I know we've discussed it before. Wonder if MM is the only one he was sexting with.... Yuck!

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 07:16 PM
Here is the picture of the open back of CC's SUV.

http://www.kmov.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=16216&nextimage=1

Thank you for posting the pictures, I hadn't noticed that the houses were kinda close together. Considering when the time actually did occur, it makes that someone did hear a scream when the crimes actually did occur. It also makes it very unlikely that if they would have occurred when CC says they did that screams would not have been heard, as people would have been awake to hear them.

CHICANA
05-28-2009, 07:24 PM
there's only one reason I can think of....he's dumber than a post.

I think you're giving him too much credit.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 07:33 PM
Well, we did see an unconfirmed post ie rumor, :slap:, that he spent up to 2 1/2 to 3 hours staging the scene. :mad:

What a dufus.:bang: LE was onto him before he even managed to get taken away by ambulance. Just watch! Now he's gonna try and proclaim he got those scratches on his arm, that the SW indicates they had a SW to test by 11:59 a.m. the day of the murder! he got them rolling around the ground in agony.:eek:

I honestly do NOT think a jury is gonna buy it!:behindbar

JMHO
fran

He doesn't even have a prayer....

The unlucky souls that are on that jury are not going to just read the police report, they are going to see the crime scene, right? :shakehead: All the facts point to him as the murderer, and the horror points right to the death penalty.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 07:44 PM
I totally agree with that. See........IMHO, it wouldn't be uncommon for his dna to be underneath Sheri's nails. But blood?????????:eek: AND as for the boys,.......................NO, imho.

I guess it will boil down to the AMOUNT of his DNA/blood underneath their nails. :(

JMHO
fran

Member the reports that cc was making a big ta-doo about playing ball with the boys the day before they died, I wonder if he doing that to cover for any defensive wounds, DNA under their nails?

But considering its cc we're talking about, that is probably giving him way too much credit.:doh:

fran
05-28-2009, 07:49 PM
He doesn't even have a prayer....

The unlucky souls that are on that jury are not going to just read the police report, they are going to see the crime scene, right? :shakehead: All the facts point to him as the murderer, and the horror points right to the death penalty.

I can say beyond a doubt, I would NOT want to be on that jury. I would NOT want to look at those crime scene photos, much less hear all of the graphic evidence that we know will most likely come out. I personally, couldn't handle it.

Having said that, I was in the courtroom during the closing statements of a high profile case, Avila......who kidnapped and murdered little Samantha Runion out of Orange County, Calif. The words themselves are powerful enough, but when they presented the crime scene photos of poor little Samantha, (they did NOT show them to the entire courtroom, thank goodness), there was a look of horror and disbelief on every juror's face.........

God protect those jurors, whoever they may be. :(

JMHO
fran

DogWood
05-28-2009, 07:59 PM
Wow! I think I'm caught up now.

I did want to post this - I found it the other day and forgot to post it. Seems it was notarized...I'm still not sure about that siggy tho.

CASAREZ: To Nick Pistor, reporter, "St. Louis Post-Dispatch," I`ve read some things in regard to the deed of their home, that her name, the victim`s name may have been taken off in October.

NICK PISTOR, REPORTER, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, COVERING STORY: In November he took the name, her name off the deed to the house. She was removed.

CASAREZ: With her compliance? With her agreement to do that?

PISTOR: It appears that she signed and it was notarized. But our -- it`s possible that police are looking at that to see what that was all about. I had talked with her family to see if they knew anything about it, and they said they had no idea.

And I`ve talked to other people to ask hem why someone would agree to have their name taken off the house.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/15/ng.01.html

panthera
05-28-2009, 08:03 PM
Good evening! :seeya: Nancy Grace is covering Sheri's murder.

WestSideGal
05-28-2009, 08:07 PM
Sort of OT but today I had a couple come in to have some mortgage documents notarized (I am a notary for MO)...anyway, I've seen this couple before and was familiar with them but since we have a book to log and have them sign whenever we notarize anything, I went by the book. Good thing I did. The papers were already signed so I politely asked for their ID and to sign my book. The husband did and his signature on the document matched his driver's license and where he signed in my book. The wife...not so much. Her ID matched the signature in my book but not the document. I looked and looked and just couldn't see the match. The husband asked if there was a problem and I said yes, her signature doesn't match. I started to pull up some documents we already had on file to compare and she said, 'Can I tell you what he did?' I said, yes - please do. She told me he took the documents to his office where they have a notary but the notary wasn't there today so he had someone in his office forge her signature on the documents!! I have to say, had it not been for what's going on here, I may have overlooked since I knew this couple but I'm glad I did because if anything had happened, I would have been responsible. I made her sign the documents again in front of me before I notarized them.

So, someone familiar with CC may have also overlooked documents before notarizing them.

Leila
05-28-2009, 08:12 PM
This case is beginning to look a lot like the Scott Peterson case, with the girlfriend in Florida, whom he told he had already filed for divorce.

chestergal
05-28-2009, 08:15 PM
IMO too much info is getting out there!
Someone is leaking info to the press and I bet I know who it is.
Someone wants a change of venue for this trial.

escamoles
05-28-2009, 08:17 PM
IMO too much info is getting out there!Are you hearing more than we are, chestergal? I haven't heard anything new since yesterday -- but I thought yesterday's information was way too much.

Do you think the BND was put up to requesting those documents?

waterlooinspector
05-28-2009, 08:21 PM
Wow! I think I'm caught up now.

I did want to post this - I found it the other day and forgot to post it. Seems it was notarized...I'm still not sure about that siggy tho.

CASAREZ: To Nick Pistor, reporter, "St. Louis Post-Dispatch," I`ve read some things in regard to the deed of their home, that her name, the victim`s name may have been taken off in October.

NICK PISTOR, REPORTER, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, COVERING STORY: In November he took the name, her name off the deed to the house. She was removed.

CASAREZ: With her compliance? With her agreement to do that?

PISTOR: It appears that she signed and it was notarized. But our -- it`s possible that police are looking at that to see what that was all about. I had talked with her family to see if they knew anything about it, and they said they had no idea.

And I`ve talked to other people to ask hem why someone would agree to have their name taken off the house.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/15/ng.01.html

We have seen a signature on the quit deed...but, correct me if I am wrong...we have not seen the notary stamp on that document. We have just seen the first page.....

chestergal
05-28-2009, 08:24 PM
Are you hearing more than we are, chestergal? I haven't heard anything new since yesterday -- but I thought yesterday's information was way too much.

Do you think the BND was put up to requesting those documents?


I'm not talking about the SW papers - The judge released them.

mikeysmommom
05-28-2009, 08:25 PM
Geez so many pages to catch up with lol been all over the net can not find anything new.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 08:31 PM
What if? What if, CC really didn't think he would get caught at all? What if he got away with this and the MCS never found any evidence against him? What if he took what he could, got money for the insurance on his family, sold the house and all of his family's belongings and moved down to florida with his mistress. He had secondary accounts, credit cards and even pre-paid phones to stay "off" of the radar. What if, he was such an animal that he wanted to keep the receipt as a way of reminding him what he did, not like as a bad thing, but what obstacle he overcame to be where he was now and what he could do again and get away clean, if needed? I don't know anyone who keeps receipts at all and I throw mine out right after getting them. So, there had to be a reason why he kept it.

Interesting theory. Setting aside the fact that he has shown the world that he is a bumbling idiot, is it possible that iit goes beyond needing to show himself what he is capable of, what if its some twisted need to show everyone what a monster he is?

Addition: Because don't psycho killers that write threatening letters usually follow up with taking credit for their actions, so they can show the world how powerful they are, even if they never reveal who they are? Dunno, just a thought. Maybe some of the creepiness in cc's look post arrest is his "pride" that he has been this monster for 31 years and he has never been caught, and he is enjoying taking credit for that and the murders?

mikeysmommom
05-28-2009, 08:31 PM
On Nancy they said he told his girlfriend he was getting a divorce.

JBean
05-28-2009, 08:35 PM
I can say beyond a doubt, I would NOT want to be on that jury. I would NOT want to look at those crime scene photos, much less hear all of the graphic evidence that we know will most likely come out. I personally, couldn't handle it.

Having said that, I was in the courtroom during the closing statements of a high profile case, Avila......who kidnapped and murdered little Samantha Runion out of Orange County, Calif. The words themselves are powerful enough, but when they presented the crime scene photos of poor little Samantha, (they did NOT show them to the entire courtroom, thank goodness), there was a look of horror and disbelief on every juror's face.........

God protect those jurors, whoever they may be. :(

JMHO
fran
I was with Fran that day at closing arguments and honestly it was so overwhelming. I don't know how family members can keep still sitting so close to someone that murdered their loved one.

Melanie
05-28-2009, 08:38 PM
Just some notes from NG tonight:

Most likely CC planned the murder - indeed - so post mortem changes would be as fresh as possible. Baden said the killings were in quick order, then CC left the house asap (to make it look like SODDI).

This doesn't make sense to me -- they were obviously killed hours earlier.

also noted: Deep and utter hatred towards wife (per psychologist).

Where is the 28-30K refi money?

Source claims CC told MM he filed for divorce (hey Scott Peterson)! :eek:

Neighborhood camera may reveal when Coleman left the house.

Injury and scratches on arm -- did wife fight back?

Ligature on the neck, compresses on the vein, which makes the face purple right away (per Baden)

Coleman reported threats to LE in Janaury and April.

Now we're on tot mom --

Mel

fmrchesterguy
05-28-2009, 08:39 PM
Sort of OT but today I had a couple come in to have some mortgage documents notarized (I am a notary for MO)...anyway, I've seen this couple before and was familiar with them but since we have a book to log and have them sign whenever we notarize anything, I went by the book. Good thing I did. The papers were already signed so I politely asked for their ID and to sign my book. The husband did and his signature on the document matched his driver's license and where he signed in my book. The wife...not so much. Her ID matched the signature in my book but not the document. I looked and looked and just couldn't see the match. The husband asked if there was a problem and I said yes, her signature doesn't match. I started to pull up some documents we already had on file to compare and she said, 'Can I tell you what he did?' I said, yes - please do. She told me he took the documents to his office where they have a notary but the notary wasn't there today so he had someone in his office forge her signature on the documents!! I have to say, had it not been for what's going on here, I may have overlooked since I knew this couple but I'm glad I did because if anything had happened, I would have been responsible. I made her sign the documents again in front of me before I notarized them.

So, someone familiar with CC may have also overlooked documents before notarizing them.


Isn't a notary supposed to watch the signatures go onto the documents? I mean, that's the whole point of notaries, to witness the signing of documents!

rockman
05-28-2009, 08:42 PM
however, my husband keeps everything. He has a shoebox full of old receipts. I swear he has receipts from dates with girlfriends 25 years ago.

This one was just too good to pass up without comment. :laugh:

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 08:43 PM
there's only one reason I can think of....he's dumber than a post.

I'd be a hoot if the prosecution could use past evidence of "dumber than a post" to help prove their case!:floorlaugh: Has there ever been a crime like this that was pulled off with such utter idiocy? In these kinds of cases I give the detectives props for resisting the urge to slam guys like cc's face against the wall. In this case I also wonder how they also kept themselves from laughing in cc's face.

JBean
05-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Isn't a notary supposed to watch the signatures go onto the documents? I mean, that's the whole point of notaries, to witness the signing of documents!No, you do not have to sign in front of a notary. You can prove who you are to the notary and confirm to them that you signed it and that is sufficient to notarize your signature.

ETA: I realize that different documents have different requirements and I am referring to acknowledgments in this post. Thanks to all those that brainstormed this. :)

TallCoolOne
05-28-2009, 08:54 PM
I'd be a hoot if the prosecution could use past evidence of "dumber than a post" to help prove their case!:floorlaugh: Has there ever been a crime like this that was pulled off with such utter idiocy? In these kinds of cases I give the detectives props for resisting the urge to slam guys like cc's face against the wall. In this case I also wonder how they also kept themselves from laughing in cc's face.I'm certain the fact that this entailed the murder of a beautiful young woman and her 2 young boys helped keep the detectives laughter in check.......:rolleyes:

browneyes
05-28-2009, 08:58 PM
No, you do not have to sign in front of a notary. You can prove who you are to the notary and confirm to them that you signed it and that is sufficient to notarize your signature.

Hi JBean! I was a notary here in Virginia back when I worked and I had to witness the person actually signing the document. It still works that way here to my knowledge.

escamoles
05-28-2009, 09:00 PM
I'm not talking about the SW papers - The judge released them.That's what I figured you meant. Not trying to pump you for information or scare you off!

JBean
05-28-2009, 09:00 PM
Hi JBean! I was a notary here in Virginia back when I worked and I had to witness the person actually signing the document. It still works that way here to my knowledge.Hi Brownie.:blowkiss: Not here in Cali. As long as the person says they signed it, that's all that is needed.

Lindadanette
05-28-2009, 09:01 PM
He told MM he was getting a divorce. . . Gee, I wonder how long after they started messing around behind Sheri's back this was? I know we're supposed to play nice because MM is cooperating with the authorities, but come on - I hope they weren't too hasty with that immunity!!!!!!

Melanie
05-28-2009, 09:02 PM
Isn't a notary supposed to watch the signatures go onto the documents? I mean, that's the whole point of notaries, to witness the signing of documents!

Yup - been a CA notary for 11 years. I refuse to sign any kind of document (especially house deeds, quit claims, power of atty's) without being signed in my presence. Trust me, I've PO'd a LOT of people by saying - go get new documents then come back and see me. I will never allow 2nd signatures on legal documents - they have to go get new sets. I swear I thought one guy was going to punch me out.

In my state it is illegal to notarize anything without WATCHING the signer sign it. You could lose your license and be liable legally.

My license recently expired, and due to the liability being placed so heavily on the notary, I doubt I will renew. Even ID's can be forged these days, and it would still be my fault.

However, there are different rules for each state, so I can only comment on what goes on in California. Here we also have to go thru a background check and get fingerprinted at the local police department (that's always a bit scary) - LOL.

Mel

rockman
05-28-2009, 09:04 PM
Here is a good large picture of a straw bale tied.
http://earthandstraw.com/wp-content/uploads/strawbale.jpg
It takes about 8ft of bale twine for each tie.
So you can get about 16ft of bale twine from one bale.

Thanks for the info and the picture. Being a "city boy", I am having trouble believing that the twine used to tie hay bales would be strong enough to strangle someone with. When I hear the term "twine" I think of thin rope that could break easily. I guess I am off base here, since the twine is strong enough to hold the hay bale together.

Can someone clarify /confirm?

rockman
05-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Hi JBean! I was a notary here in Virginia back when I worked and I had to witness the person actually signing the document. It still works that way here to my knowledge.

That is how I understand it works here in Arkansas. Also in Missouri if I am not mistaken.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 09:06 PM
Yeah, me neither - but I will say that it took a long time to get the taste out of my mouth:yuck: I think there's something to be said about the "power structure" in the Coleman clan and their affiliation with JMM. If JM has known CC since he was a boy, we can assume she's known BC & KC as well. It occurs to me that there's a distinct appetite for control in these boys. I don't know what KC does, but the rest of them are all in (were in) postions where they have an unusual amount of control over other people.

JM has this same unusual power to an immense degree. I don't know what kind of power DM exerts from behind the throne, but it's still behind the throne and that's got to rankle someone like CC who was probably brought up to think that it's wrong - the threats he was making had to come from somewhere in his POS brain!.

I don't know anything about their mom, but I can't help but wonder how she has been treated too. She looks a million miles away in every photo I've seen.

Heck yah! And CC's best friend too, the youth leader who doesn't like whiners, crybabies or something like that, he struck me as some kind of Drill Sargent for Jesus...:couch:

Jack
05-28-2009, 09:12 PM
That is how I understand it works here in Arkansas. Also in Missouri if I am not mistaken.

Yes, MO law requires the notary to witness the signature. However, if you happen to know the notary and they are willing to give their stamp without witnessing... I've seen this done.

JBean
05-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Yup - been a CA notary for 11 years. I refuse to sign any kind of document (especially house deeds, quit claims, power of atty's) without being signed in my presence. Trust me, I've PO'd a LOT of people by saying - go get new documents then come back and see me. I will never allow 2nd signatures on legal documents - they have to go get new sets. I swear I thought one guy was going to punch me out.

In my state it is illegal to notarize anything without WATCHING the signer sign it. You could lose your license and be liable legally.

My license recently expired, and due to the liability being placed so heavily on the notary, I doubt I will renew. Even ID's can be forged these days, and it would still be my fault.

However, there are different rules for each state, so I can only comment on what goes on in California. Here we also have to go thru a background check and get fingerprinted at the local police department (that's always a bit scary) - LOL.

MelMaybe it just depends on the type of document and whether it is an acknowledgement or a full jurat or affadavit. I am sure it can be a notarized acknowledgement without signing it front of the notary.

Melanie
05-28-2009, 09:16 PM
Hi Brownie.:blowkiss: Not here in Cali. As long as the person says they signed it, that's all that is needed.

All deeds have to be signed in the presence of a notary:

• That the signer personally appeared before the notary public on the date indicated and in
the county indicated.
• That the signer signed the document in the presence of the notary public.
• That the notary public administered the oath or affirmation.*
• To the identity of the signer.

If someone just showed up and said yah, I signed it, we would have real estate fraud all over this country.

The completion of a certificate of acknowledgment that contains statements that the notary public knows to be false not only may cause the notary public to be liable for civil penalties and administrative action, but is also a criminal offense. The notary public who willfully states as true any material fact known to be false is subject to a civil penalty not exceeding $10,000. (Civil Code section 1189(a)(2))

However, there is 1 exception (which would not apply to trust deeds, or quit claim deeds, etc) and that is the simple acknowledgement.

Question:

Am I (notary) required to see the person sign the document at the time I perform the notarization?

Answer:

If you (notary) are preparing a certificate of acknowledgment, then “no.” The document can be executed before the person brings it to you for notarization. In an acknowledgment, the signer must personally appear before you (the notary) and acknowledge that he/she executed the document, not that they executed the document in your presence.

I'm rambling now, but Deed's must be signed before a Notary:

Signatures - The Grantor(s) must sign the deed before a notary
public. The Grantee does not get that portion of the property
belonging to any Grantor who does not sign. If the property is
community property, both spouses or domestic partners
must sign the deed.

If I'm not on base, I'd be happy to be corrected.

Best,

Mel

Melanie
05-28-2009, 09:20 PM
Maybe it just depends on the type of document and whether it is an acknowledgement or a full jurat or affadavit. I am sure it can be a notarized acknowledgement without signing it front of the notary.

Correct, correct, correct. Acknowledgements can be signed in advance. But if we're talking real estate document - nope. Especially jurats. I've always erred on the side of caution though and have asked everyone to sign in front of me. I was always worried it would come back and bite me in the arss.

I'll have to look at the docs when they are released (it doesn't sound like the notary pages have been releasted yet).

:blowkiss:

Mel

WestSideGal
05-28-2009, 09:20 PM
That is how I understand it works here in Arkansas. Also in Missouri if I am not mistaken.

In MO, they can present a photo ID or be personally known to the notary - as a notary, I have to check the box on which I accepted as ID. Of course, never for a close personal friend or family member. Here they just have to attest that they signed the document, doesn't have to be in front of you. Our log book is pretty thorough - you have to have the date and time you notarized, what document it was, when it was dated and the name, address, phone number and signature of the person (along with some other things). There have been subpoenas for these log books and I keep mine for just such reasons.

EDIT: Just to clarify - I was not notarizing a Deed of Trust - today they were acknowledgments.

chestergal
05-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Thanks for the info and the picture. Being a "city boy", I am having trouble believing that the twine used to tie hay bales would be strong enough to strangle someone with. When I hear the term "twine" I think of thin rope that could break easily. I guess I am off base here, since the twine is strong enough to hold the hay bale together.

Can someone clarify /confirm?


POLYPROPYLENE TWINE

Bridon Cordage is the largest polypropylene baler twine manufacturer in the world and makes what is considered to be the best twine available on the market. Bridon’s continued pursuance of perfection has also allowed them to become the first and only ISO 9001 certified poly twine manufacturing facility in North America. This commitment to excellence means that all the products you receive from Bridon undergo several comprehensive tests to ensure that our twine is the highest quality and most consistent twine available today.

http://www.bridoncordage.com

http://www.bridoncordage.com/baler_us.html

http://www.bridoncordage.com/testimonials.html

http://www.big-r.com/Images/farm_bridon_02.jpg

JBean
05-28-2009, 09:21 PM
In th murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17587&highlight=hawks) the murderers paid off a notary (2K I think) to notarize the signatures of the people that had been killed. She didn't realize they were murdered at that time. they told her if she talked they would harm her family. She ultimately came clean and of course it was very important to the prosecution. Horrible case.

JBean
05-28-2009, 09:22 PM
Correct, correct, correct. Acknowledgements can be signed in advance. But if we're talking real estate document - nope. Especially jurats. I've always erred on the side of caution though and have asked everyone to sign in front of me. I was always worried it would come back and bite me in the arss.

I'll have to look at the docs when they are released (it doesn't sound like the notary pages have been releasted yet).

:blowkiss:

Mel
I totally agree.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 09:22 PM
sex addiction????? I know we've discussed it before. Wonder if MM is the only one he was sexting with.... Yuck!

The whole sex addiction thing makes me think of Phil Markoff... It will be interesting to know everything that has been found on CC's computer, cell phones etc.

Markoff was at least posting as bi-sexual (don't know if more details have come out about that) if CC had any of those issues it sure would produce a lot of inner conflict considering his background.

OrdinaryLife
05-28-2009, 09:25 PM
No, you do not have to sign in front of a notary. You can prove who you are to the notary and confirm to them that you signed it and that is sufficient to notarize your signature.

I'm not disagreeing with you, JBean :blowkiss:, but I was told many times I (ex-we) could not do that without Notary being in my (ex-our) presence. Perhaps it's a "thing" that is a preference for a Notary??? Hey, I live in a very small State. They still are dealing with an ex Mayor who has served time as a Felon and now has his own radio show. :rolleyes:

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 09:26 PM
On Nancy they said he told his girlfriend he was getting a divorce.What else is she going to say? ;)

Melanie
05-28-2009, 09:27 PM
In th murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17587&highlight=hawks) the murderers paid off a notary (2K I think) to notarize the signatures of the people that had been killed. She didn't realize they were murdered at that time. they told her if she talked they would harm her family. She ultimately came clean and of course it was very important to the prosecution. Horrible case.

:eek:

Notaries are a special bunch and 99.5% of us are really honest -- I hate to hear this kind of stuff. Gives us all a bad name :(

I'm sure this notary doesn't have a license anymore, and paid quite a hefty fee. It's just not worth it - ever!

Mel

TallCoolOne
05-28-2009, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the info and the picture. Being a "city boy", I am having trouble believing that the twine used to tie hay bales would be strong enough to strangle someone with. When I hear the term "twine" I think of thin rope that could break easily. I guess I am off base here, since the twine is strong enough to hold the hay bale together.

Can someone clarify /confirm?
Having been the one riding on the hay wagon whilst bailing hay and straw I can attest to the strength of the twine. The old bailers used only two stands to hold the bale together and hay is compacted in the process. It's tough stuff, we've used it for many other purposes on the farm. After a couple of years it will weather if left out in the elements and become frail, but otherwise it will hold strong.

JBean
05-28-2009, 09:30 PM
:eek:

Notaries are a special bunch and 99.5% of us are really honest -- I hate to hear this kind of stuff. Gives us all a bad name :(

I'm sure this notary doesn't have a license anymore, and paid quite a hefty fee. It's just not worth it - ever!

Mel

Oh my gosh I am real estate developer and notaries are part of my world LOL. I know that almost all notaries are honest. I think this poor gal had NO idea as to the severity of what she had done. In the final analysis I am sure she was happy she could help the prosecution convict these murderers.
RIP Tom and Jackie Hawks

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by JBean
No, you do not have to sign in front of a notary. You can prove who you are to the notary and confirm to them that you signed it and that is sufficient to notarize your signature. It is the way it works here, too. They sign the log in front of the notary and the signatures must match.

A notary is not responsible if someone slips a fake ID on them. They can only go by what is provided and without DNA...they would never know unless they spot the ID as fake.

Melanie
05-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Oh my gosh I am real estate developer and notaries are part of my world LOL. I know that almost all notaries are honest. I think this poor gal had NO idea as to the severity of what she had done. In the final analysis I am sure she was happy she could help the prosecution convict these murderers.
RIP Tom and Jackie Hawks

What shows she was a bbbbaaaadddd Notary was taking 2K to notarize the documents. Man, I didn't know the fees went up so high (I kid, I kid). In honesty, I feel sorry for her, as I'm sure she had no idea this involved deaths. I'm just praying the CC notary documents are legit. I'm sure the Notary will be called to present her book as well to compare with Sheri's real signature.

Best,

Melanie

OrdinaryLife
05-28-2009, 09:38 PM
Having been the one riding on the hay wagon whilst bailing hay and straw I can attest to the strength of the twine. The old bailers used only two stands to hold the bale together and hay is compacted in the process. It's tough stuff, we've used it for many other purposes on the farm. After a couple of years it will weather if left out in the elements and become frail, but otherwise it will hold strong.

I can, without any doubt, attest to this as true fact. Heck, after stacking these 50 pound bales and having "burns" to the strength of the rope, I know this as total truth.

Kimster
05-28-2009, 09:43 PM
Hi Brownie.:blowkiss: Not here in Cali. As long as the person says they signed it, that's all that is needed.

I used to be a notary in California and yes, that was all that was needed. Here in Oregon, you MUST sign in front of the notary. I found that out when I moved here and a notary made me resign in front of her and explained that to me. It must vary state to state.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 09:45 PM
I'm certain the fact that this entailed the murder of a beautiful young woman and her 2 young boys helped keep the detectives laughter in check.......:rolleyes:

I'm sorry I didn't mean for it to sound like there is anything funny about the lives lost. It just seems like if its so obvious to us that the whole thing was a pathetic attempt by CC to make it look like a *lunatic committed the crime, I just can't imagine what a pathetic joke he must have appeared to LE, especially in questioning... Maybe I should of clarified that it wouldn't be a giggle, giggle laugh, but a shake your head sarcastic what was this loser thinking one.

*lunatic: Other than CC, who is the actual lunatic responsible for this crime.

OrdinaryLife
05-28-2009, 09:46 PM
What shows she was a bbbbaaaadddd Notary was taking 2K to notarize the documents. Man, I didn't know the fees went up so high (I kid, I kid). In honesty, I feel sorry for her, as I'm sure she had no idea this involved deaths. I'm just praying the CC notary documents are legit. I'm sure the Notary will be called to present her book as well to compare with Sheri's real signature.

Best,

Melanie

FWIW, I am sure that the fee the Notary was paid had to do with the refi. I do know that here, where I live, Notaries do not charge a fee and are not suppose to. Of course, that could be this part of the world. It may be different State to State.

Kimster
05-28-2009, 09:47 PM
Correct, correct, correct. Acknowledgements can be signed in advance. But if we're talking real estate document - nope. Especially jurats. I've always erred on the side of caution though and have asked everyone to sign in front of me. I was always worried it would come back and bite me in the arss.

I'll have to look at the docs when they are released (it doesn't sound like the notary pages have been releasted yet).

:blowkiss:

Mel

Okay, I caught up with you now. I see what you're saying and yes, that's the way it was for me way back in the day. :blowkiss:

Melanie
05-28-2009, 09:47 PM
I can, without any doubt, attest to this as true fact. Heck, after stacking these 50 pound bales and having "burns" to the strength of the rope, I know this as total truth.

I live in the city, so no bay here. But, when I see tv shows, those bales are huge, and the guys are usually wearing hefty gloves.

Now that I think about it -- wouldn't CC have some marks on his hands if he used only laytex gloves? Would his hands be burned as well? Would the latex glove have residue? I wish Nancy Grace would ask these kind of questions.

Just curious if this has been mentioned before.

Best,

Mel

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 09:49 PM
Your premise is flawed, none of us has all the evidence. We have a few police reports sprinkled into a sea of rumor and supposition.

Some of us on here know Chris and his family, and for whatever flaws they may have, I've yet to see where a single person that knew Chris has said 'I knew there was something weird about that guy'

Not one.

So while the 'evidence' that is public is very much stacked against Chris, I am still riding the fence. I can't say that he is certainly innocent, because I wasn't there, I haven't seen all the evidence, or lack there of. I can't say he is certainly guilty, because, again, I haven't seen all the evidence against him, and neither has anyone else here.

In my mind it will all come down to how firmly TOD can be pinned down, and weather or not Chris was home at that time. I hope the trial is swift, thorough, and fair.

If Chris is innocent, I pray that his defense team can prove this without a shadow of doubt so this dark cloud does not hang over his head for the rest of his life.

If he is guilty, then the State of Illinois needs to rethink it's moratorium on the death penalty, because never has a case qualified so greatly.

IMNSHOI have to disagree. We do have a lot of evidence which was confirmed by the release of the documents yesterday along with what Major Connor has confirmed. Who Knew was only saying "all the evidence" to date, imo. Of course, we know we will never have all the evidence literally...even after trial. (Some things will never be used or released.)

LE and the SA's Office have stated they can prove Christopher Coleman acted alone and is responsible for the murders of Sheri, Gavin, and Garrett Coleman by charging and arresting him. I have no reason, with everything we have seen so far, to believe they cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The TOD, imo, was the confirmation they needed to make the arrest so it has been pinned down.

Sadly for people who do know the Coleman family, this situation is difficult to comprehend. For some, there will never be enough proof to convince them. Scott Peterson still has his supporters. Drew Peterson has a few, too. Chris won't be any different.

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I live in the city, so no bay here. But, when I see tv shows, those bales are huge, and the guys are usually wearing hefty gloves.

Now that I think about it -- wouldn't CC have some marks on his hands if he used only laytex gloves? Would his hands be burned as well? Would the latex glove have residue? I wish Nancy Grace would ask these kind of questions.

Just curious if this has been mentioned before.

Best,

MelThey did mention the "reddish" mark on his hand they swabbed. It could be a "burn" of sorts. ;)

fran
05-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I was with Fran that day at closing arguments and honestly it was so overwhelming. I don't know how family members can keep still sitting so close to someone that murdered their loved one.

Yes JBean and it was your sister who accidentally saw the picture of poor little Samantha and had to suddenly leave the courtroom. I had a feeling she was upset and at break she told us she couldn't return. :(

I'll never forget that, or poor little Samantha.

Bless Erin, Samantha's mom. She valiantly sat through every single day of testimony and arguements. Remember how she'd lay her head side-ways on her husband's shoulder. Oh My Goodness.............:(

fran

Kimster
05-28-2009, 09:53 PM
I have to disagree. We do have a lot of evidence which was confirmed by the release of the documents yesterday along with what Major Connor has confirmed. Who Knew was only saying "all the evidence" to date, imo. Of course, we know we will never have all the evidence literally...even after trial. (Some things will never be used or released.)

LE and the SA's Office have stated they can prove Christopher Coleman acted alone and is responsible for the murders of Sheri, Gavin, and Garrett Coleman by charging and arresting him. I have no reason, with everything we have seen so far, to believe they cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The TOD, imo, was the confirmation they needed to make the arrest so it has been pinned down.

Sadly for people who do know the Coleman family, this situation is difficult to comprehend. For some, there will never be enough proof to convince them. Scott Peterson still has his supporters. Drew Peterson has a few, too. Chris won't be any different.

Although I totally agree with you, SS, I think the original post was well thought out and well written. This is the perfect mindset for an impartial juror :) of which I could not be at this point....:mad:

OrdinaryLife
05-28-2009, 09:56 PM
I live in the city, so no bay here. But, when I see tv shows, those bales are huge, and the guys are usually wearing hefty gloves.

Now that I think about it -- wouldn't CC have some marks on his hands if he used only laytex gloves? Would his hands be burned as well? Would the latex glove have residue? I wish Nancy Grace would ask these kind of questions.

Just curious if this has been mentioned before.

Best,

Mel

In my very unprofessional opinion and a person who never wore gloves baling/stacking hay (I never thought about it, but I was young and stupid back then. Well, more than now. :) ), CC did not lift bales of hay. He allegedly use baling twine to strangle 3 people. I would think there could be residual fibers, but I do not think we can compare haying to ( as in farming it) strangulation. To many variables. Until forensics is released regarding the impressions left on the bodies, I think it's all speculation at this point.

JBean
05-28-2009, 09:56 PM
Yes JBean and it was your sister who accidentally saw the picture of poor little Samantha and had to suddenly leave the courtroom. I had a feeling she was upset and at break she told us she couldn't return. :(

I'll never forget that, or poor little Samantha.

Bless Erin, Samantha's mom. She valiantly sat through every single day of testimony and arguements. Remember how she'd lay her head side-ways on her husband's shoulder. Oh My Goodness.............:(

fran

Fran I could not recall if it was you or my sister that saw the picture so I did not want to mention it.

Again, I do not know how family can sit so close to the murderer and breathe the same air at the same time.

Fairy1
05-28-2009, 09:59 PM
I don't know why this is about Joyce Myers. If someone that works for me comits a crime. I don't think that makes me responsible. If one of my friends comits a crime, I don't think that makes me responsible. She is not in the media saying he is innocent. Why is this about her ministry? It appears that CC is a killer who happened to work for Joyce Myers. Maybe they were even family friends. Maybe she should have seen what he was but it appears Chris Coleman apparently fooled a lot of people. Including the wife and children that loved him. I just hate to see people blamed other than the killer. It's no one's fault but Chris Coleman's. He made his choices! JMO

It was not my intention to "bash" JM or JMM or to implicate them in the actual murders and I apologize if it came across that way. Never even heard of them prior to this case! That being said, I don't believe theirs was your standard employee-employer relationship. If I came home and found my entire family slaughtered, my boss would probably be the last person I would call. But CC did do that and JM was there ASAP.

IMO, the connection between CC - and the entire Coleman clan - goes much deeper than just a professional relationship. I guess I'm looking more at the impact the JMM "inner circle" environment may have had on CC psychologically. That is not to say it literally drove him to murder his family, but perhaps he had an elevated sense of entitlement or power due to his position within the ministry. Perhaps he took the message of getting what you want for yourself - at any cost - a bit too far??? Don't know.

There is obviously a great deal of wealth connected to JMM. Personally, I do have a difficult time reconciling that in my own mind - based on their line of business. And it is a business. Seems CC had some shady financial business of his own going on and, IMO, we have not seen the majority of that money trail.....yet.

When a seemingly upstanding, family-oriented, son of a preacher man is suspected of murdering his wife and children, you need to begin peeling away the layers of his life to figure out why. JM and JMM are most certainly some of those layers. IMHO

fran
05-28-2009, 10:05 PM
I'd be a hoot if the prosecution could use past evidence of "dumber than a post" to help prove their case!:floorlaugh: Has there ever been a crime like this that was pulled off with such utter idiocy? In these kinds of cases I give the detectives props for resisting the urge to slam guys like cc's face against the wall. In this case I also wonder how they also kept themselves from laughing in cc's face.

Well, you know this guy would have to be at least running neck in neck with Scott Peterson, at the least, for being dumber than a door-nail.

FWIW, you know Scott secretly purchased the boat that he ultimately used to dispose of his wife Laci and baby Conner's bodies. He paid cash for the boat in the morning and later the very same day met with his g/f, Amber. It was that very day that he tearfully admitted to Amber that he indeed, had been married but he lost her and this would be the first Holiday without her............of course, this was about three weeks before Scott's wife went missing.:mad:

His excuse for the statement,....."well, there's different ways to loose.....":bang:

WTH!

That's all I gotta' say about it.

fran

Fairy1
05-28-2009, 10:06 PM
Fran I could not recall if it was you or my sister that saw the picture so I did not want to mention it.

Again, I do not know how family can sit so close to the murderer and breathe the same air at the same time.

My stars ya'll! I cannot even begin to imagine. Little Samantha's case hit me so hard and I wanted that BAS*ARD to fry. But I don't think I could sit on a jury in such a case. My heart goes out to those who did - on that case and every other one like it - where they had to see something they will never, ever be able to forget as long as they live.

There is no doubt in my mind that CC's defense team is setting up for a change of venue. But I've said it before and I'll say it again; it won't matter where his trial is held once the jury sees Sheri and those beautiful little boys dead in their own beds. IMO

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:09 PM
Watching the NG rerun right now and they say all three were strangled with twine. Someone speculated that SC perhaps wasn't, but that isn't what they are reporting. However, they are not always 100% accurate on NG, either.

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 10:10 PM
Although I totally agree with you, SS, I think the original post was well thought out and well written. This is the perfect mindset for an impartial juror :) of which I could not be at this point....:mad:It was well thought out and written. :) I just don't happen to agree with all of it. LOL

The impartial juror will be the one who has not paid attention to the news, doesn't know anything of the people involved including JM, and can honestly say they are open to both the defense and the prosecution. I think finding someone who is unaware of the Colemans AND of JMM is going to be a hard sell when picking a jury. This alone could be enough to move the trial.

who knew?
05-28-2009, 10:10 PM
They did mention the "reddish" mark on his hand they swabbed. It could be a "burn" of sorts. ;)

I hadn't thought of that - but I'd think with the pressure he had to use on the "ligature" that it would cause some kind of "rope burn"...

waterlooinspector
05-28-2009, 10:11 PM
POLYPROPYLENE TWINE

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http://www.bridoncordage.com

http://www.bridoncordage.com/baler_us.html

http://www.bridoncordage.com/testimonials.html

http://www.big-r.com/Images/farm_bridon_02.jpg

I am playing Devil's advocate here...but I hope there is forensic evidence on this twine found 3 miles away. If not, it bears no use....as evidence....

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:12 PM
I hadn't thought of that - but I'd think with the pressure he had to use on the "ligature" that it would cause some kind of "rope burn"...

He was wearing gloves though. Isn't that one of the wonderful finds on the freeway?

adnoid
05-28-2009, 10:14 PM
...I am real estate developer...

Is that kind of like a "Hostess" at a "Gentleman's Club"?

rockman
05-28-2009, 10:15 PM
He was wearing gloves though. Isn't that one of the wonderful finds on the freeway?

It has been reported at least one glove was found. We shall see.

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:17 PM
Is that kind of like a "Hostess" at a "Gentleman's Club"?

ADNOID!!!:eek:

:slap:

chestergal
05-28-2009, 10:17 PM
Straw bales don't weigh much - maybe 30 lbs. (but tossing these by hand all day long can wear you out). The point of the stronger poly twine is due to the straw being compressed under pressure and then tied with poly bale twine by the baler machines. After it is tied then the straw expands outward and the twine has to be strong enough to handle the expansion of the straw. The expansion of the straw against the twine holds the bale together so that it keeps it's form.

Straw comes from the bottom of winter wheat and it is only cut and harvested when it is dry.
Then straw is normally stored out of the weather and can be stored for a few years. (this why they need a stronger twine on it also)
Straw is not used for feed, but it is used for many other things in today's world.

rockman
05-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Speaking of the hostess......This might have been discussed on one of the previous threads about this case, but I don't remember seeing it. I am surprised there are no current photos of MM other than the couple that were on a website. I would think the media or paparazzi (sp?) would be staked out on where she lives and works to try for a shot. Do you think she is in protective custody? Maybe a safe house with protection? Thoughts?

rockman
05-28-2009, 10:21 PM
Straw bales don't weigh much - maybe 30 lbs. (but tossing these by hand all day long can wear you out). The point of the stronger poly twine is due to the hay being compressed under pressure and then tied with poly bale twine by the baler machines. After it is tied then the straw expands outward and the twine has to be strong enough to handle the expansion of the straw. The expansion of the straw against the twine holds the bale together so that it keeps it's form.

Straw comes from the bottom of winter wheat and it is only cut and harvested when it is dry.
Then straw is normally stored out of the weather and can be stored for a few years. (this why they need a stronger twine on it also)
Straw is not used for feed, but it is used for many other things in today's world.

Thanks again. This "city boy" is getting an education this evening about hay bales and twine. :)

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:21 PM
Speaking of the hostess......This might have been discussed on one of the previous threads about this case, but I don't remember seeing it. I am surprised there are no current photos of MM other than the couple that were on a website. I would think the media or paparazzi (sp?) would be staked out on where she lives and works to try for a shot. Do you think she is in protective custody? Maybe a safe house with protection? Thoughts?

LE and the media usually have a pretty decent relationship while LE is still putting together their cases. I know a lady who is familiar with Kathi B of the Anthony case and Kathi is very good about NOT reporting certain things that are specifically asked to keep quiet. I'm glad to know that the media still has scruples for the most part! :clap:

Perhaps LE asked the media to keep her on the down low.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 10:21 PM
I live in the city, so no bay here. But, when I see tv shows, those bales are huge, and the guys are usually wearing hefty gloves.

Now that I think about it -- wouldn't CC have some marks on his hands if he used only laytex gloves? Would his hands be burned as well? Would the latex glove have residue? I wish Nancy Grace would ask these kind of questions.

Just curious if this has been mentioned before.

Best,

Mel

I was wondering about that too, but I can't find anything that says if the wounds on his hands were on his palm or not, which is where I envision that kind of would most likely be in a strangling if the ligature is brought around the neck and crossed. (don't know how else to explain it)

But then I started to wonder if hand placement would be different if the twine was in a noose as I think it was described. Maybe he used other parts of his hand, wrist or arm as leverage.

Then I started to wonder if there is a possibility that CC's DNA is on the twine. If he wasn't wearing his gloves when he cut the twine, that stuff does not sound like it is easy to cut and maybe it left trance on the cutting instrument. Hey, wasn't there a rumor that a knife was involved? I haven't read the SW through yet.... don't know if that is even a possible connection, it just occurred to me. Have we been told the specific length of the murder weapon, did CC shorten it after removing it from around the hay? hmmmm

Fairy1
05-28-2009, 10:22 PM
He was wearing gloves though. Isn't that one of the wonderful finds on the freeway?

Good point! Any wounds he had most likely came from the struggle Sheri put up while he was killing her. IMO

JBean
05-28-2009, 10:24 PM
Is that kind of like a "Hostess" at a "Gentleman's Club"?
In a backwards kind of way.

chestergal
05-28-2009, 10:28 PM
Thanks again. This "city boy" is getting an education this evening about hay bales and twine. :)


LOL.... I am a city gal - grew up in STL but moved to the country in the early 1990's
BTW Hay & Straw are not the same (and country folk will laugh at you if you ask for hay to spread over your city grass seed)

CC had Straw bales in his backyard.

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:29 PM
JBean, Can't members put Mods in time out? I mean, like a citizen's arrest? <evil grin>

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Ann Bremner on NG just said "He might as well have spray painted an arrow pointed to his face that said 'I did it'". And she's a defense lawyer!

panthera
05-28-2009, 10:34 PM
I live in the city, so no bay here. But, when I see tv shows, those bales are huge, and the guys are usually wearing hefty gloves.

Now that I think about it -- wouldn't CC have some marks on his hands if he used only laytex gloves? Would his hands be burned as well? Would the latex glove have residue? I wish Nancy Grace would ask these kind of questions.

Just curious if this has been mentioned before.

Best,

Mel
That seems entirely possible and also the glove could've torn. MOO

panthera
05-28-2009, 10:36 PM
Ann Bremner on NG just said "He might as well have spray painted an arrow pointed to his face that said 'I did it'". And she's a defense lawyer!
I'm watching her show again and I was surprised too, coming from Ann! But there's no denying the evidence accumulated against him, and the outrage against a killer of not only his wife but two small children. MOO

rockman
05-28-2009, 10:36 PM
LOL.... I am a city gal - grew up in STL but moved to the country in the early 1990's
BTW Hay & Straw are not the same (and country folk will laugh at you if you ask for hay to spread over your city grass seed)

CC had Straw bales in his backyard.

Yeah same here....grew up in St. Louis but moved in 1986.

Fairy1
05-28-2009, 10:38 PM
I been thinkin'....For the sake of argument, let's say that all of the evidence they can tie to the actual murders did come right from the house and the receipts indicate none were recent purchases.

Now, if you were a loony toon, diabolical killer who was who was watching CC "all the time," would you wait for him to take off for the gym, enter the house, look around for the perfect murder weapon ('cause you didn't bring one with you), strangle 3 people, then paint your freaky messages all over the house when you KNOW (because you're watching him ALL THE TIME) he will be home shortly? I'm going to go with "NO" on that scenario.

TOD will be key in this case for sure. But the time frame CC is now married to will not hold water, IMO.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 10:40 PM
I am playing Devil's advocate here...but I hope there is forensic evidence on this twine found 3 miles away. If not, it bears no use....as evidence....

Could it be used circumstantially though? Its on the same route with other evidence, its shaped as a noose, possibly fibers were found at the crime scene or on the victims that match the twine, the ligature mark is consistent with the twine, one of the bales at the home was missing a tie, the wear and tear on the ties that remained on the bales in the Coleman's yard match that of the presumed murder weapon, matches trace on the glove....

JustPeachy
05-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Hi JBean! I was a notary here in Virginia back when I worked and I had to witness the person actually signing the document. It still works that way here to my knowledge.

I was a notary in Va also, documents had to be signed in person with proper ID.

rockman
05-28-2009, 10:43 PM
I been thinkin'....For the sake of argument, let's say that all of the evidence they can tie to the actual murders did come right from the house and the receipts indicate none were recent purchases.

Now, if you were a loony toon, diabolical killer who was who was watching CC "all the time," would you wait for him to take off for the gym, enter the house, look around for the perfect murder weapon ('cause you didn't bring one with you), strangle 3 people, then paint your freaky messages all over the house when you KNOW (because you're watching him ALL THE TIME) he will be home shortly? I'm going to go with "NO" on that scenario.

TOD will be key in this case for sure. But the time frame CC is now married to will not hold water, IMO.

Heck no. If I were the mastermind killer, I would have done when I knew he was at work at night. Of course, he might have seen me on his fancy video camera setup, but so what. I would have worn a mask so I could not be identified.

Kimster
05-28-2009, 10:51 PM
Heck no. If I were the mastermind killer, I would have done when I knew he was at work at night. Of course, he might have seen me on his fancy video camera setup, but so what. I would have worn a mask so I could not be identified.

Excellent post! :clap: Hope the prosecution reads this!

WholeLottaRosie
05-28-2009, 10:54 PM
Are you hearing more than we are, chestergal? I haven't heard anything new since yesterday -- but I thought yesterday's information was way too much.

Do you think the BND was put up to requesting those documents?

No, I think they (BND) did it of their own volition. They are currently waging a battle (for some weeks) in their own county, St. Clair, on forcing a judge to unseal search warrants - I forget how many are currently under advisement. Knowing one of the reporters, which I do, I think they did it to see if they could get it easily in Monroe County. Plus this case is driving a lot of traffic to their site, so there is interest.

panthera
05-28-2009, 10:55 PM
I been thinkin'....For the sake of argument, let's say that all of the evidence they can tie to the actual murders did come right from the house and the receipts indicate none were recent purchases.

Now, if you were a loony toon, diabolical killer who was who was watching CC "all the time," would you wait for him to take off for the gym, enter the house, look around for the perfect murder weapon ('cause you didn't bring one with you), strangle 3 people, then paint your freaky messages all over the house when you KNOW (because you're watching him ALL THE TIME) he will be home shortly? I'm going to go with "NO" on that scenario.

TOD will be key in this case for sure. But the time frame CC is now married to will not hold water, IMO.
I agree! While it's entirely possible that someone wanting to get revenge against CC and his family could've used things from the house to make it seem like he'd committed the murders, the timeline doesn't fit with killing three people by strangulation and then spray painting several rooms in the house. The killer would not have known when CC was going to come back to the house and could've been caught. Also, CC's phone call for a welfare check doesn't make sense either since he'd been gone less than an hour. MOO

chestergal
05-28-2009, 10:57 PM
I been thinkin'....For the sake of argument, let's say that all of the evidence they can tie to the actual murders did come right from the house and the receipts indicate none were recent purchases.

Now, if you were a loony toon, diabolical killer who was who was watching CC "all the time," would you wait for him to take off for the gym, enter the house, look around for the perfect murder weapon ('cause you didn't bring one with you), strangle 3 people, then paint your freaky messages all over the house when you KNOW (because you're watching him ALL THE TIME) he will be home shortly? I'm going to go with "NO" on that scenario.

TOD will be key in this case for sure. But the time frame CC is now married to will not hold water, IMO.


If I was out after CC as the threatening letters made it sound.
I would just wait to catch him at a empty stop light or empty stop sign and pop a bullet into his head. I wouldn't kill his family.

(You asked)

The point is - The letters were written to sound like CC was the target.
There is really no reason to kill his family as his family was not the people who were "protecting" JM.
CC was the protector of JM.

who knew?
05-28-2009, 10:59 PM
Has anyone found out anything about the divorce papers cc told mm he had already filed? I think someone already asked, but the only place I have heard this is NG?

JBean
05-28-2009, 11:06 PM
JBean, Can't members put Mods in time out? I mean, like a citizen's arrest? <evil grin>
Adnoid just WISHES I were a hostess at his gentlemens club.

You can feel free to give me a TO for going OT. Maybe a couple weeks?

KT Can
05-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Maybe this has been mentioned before and if it has my apologies for the rehash (sorry, it's hard to keep up with ya'll - gheesh, girl steps away to take care of life for a few and next thing you now we're two threads ahead :))

Anyhoo, has anyone mentioned overspray? Gloves or no gloves, CC would have had some residue whether he attempted shower off or not. Anyone done any spray paiting recently? I have, and it gets everywhere...unless of course you're sportin' tube socks and covered up with a sheet like a ghost. Overspray...wonder if they found any in his eyelashes, eyebrows, arm hair, tennish shoes, etc......

panthera
05-28-2009, 11:09 PM
If I was out after CC as the threatening letters made it sound.
I would just wait to catch him at a empty stop light or empty stop sign and pop a bullet into his head. I wouldn't kill his family.

(You asked)
Good point but I think it was supposed to make him suffer the loss of his family. Too bad the perp who threatened him didn't realize CC was having an affair with someone else anyway. (sarcasm intended :) ) MOO

PrayersForMaura
05-28-2009, 11:10 PM
Wow! I think I'm caught up now.

I did want to post this - I found it the other day and forgot to post it. Seems it was notarized...I'm still not sure about that siggy tho.

CASAREZ: To Nick Pistor, reporter, "St. Louis Post-Dispatch," I`ve read some things in regard to the deed of their home, that her name, the victim`s name may have been taken off in October.

NICK PISTOR, REPORTER, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, COVERING STORY: In November he took the name, her name off the deed to the house. She was removed.

CASAREZ: With her compliance? With her agreement to do that?

PISTOR: It appears that she signed and it was notarized. But our -- it`s possible that police are looking at that to see what that was all about. I had talked with her family to see if they knew anything about it, and they said they had no idea.

And I`ve talked to other people to ask hem why someone would agree to have their name taken off the house.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/15/ng.01.html


My friend used to work for a large, well-known insurance company. This man wanted a large life insurance policy on his wife.
My friend said she needed to come in and sign in person.
So this woman comes in with him with proper ID and signs the forms.

Months later, the wife is murdered.

The woman who came in to sign as the wife was ACTUALLY the guy's girlfriend. She had gotten photo id and all sorts of ID using the wife's name!!

My friend about ***** in his pants when he saw this guy and that woman on the news.

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 11:12 PM
What else is she going to say? ;)

Her parents are reported to have told the press that they never will have anything to say about it, and I just went back to make sure it wasn't Tara that said that.

Isn't it sad that is what she said and what all of us know she would say? Nothing along the lines of acknowledging guilt, putting out an apology even though it isn't worth a ****. She didn't just know Sheri, and she didn't just know Chris, she knew Sheri's family as well.

Getting a divorce and being a divorce are two totally different things... especially when it appears that Tara could have easily seen that CC was lying.

I think she is getting off easy and I'm having a hard time accepting that she is not in jail right along with CC. I did notice in the NG transcripts that LE spoke with other people in Florida, that's good news that I hadn't noticed before. More witnesses to the affair...

chestergal
05-28-2009, 11:16 PM
Good point but I think it was supposed to make him suffer the loss of his family. Too bad the perp who threatened him didn't realize CC was having an affair with someone else anyway. (sarcasm intended :) ) MOO


more sarcasm...

yeah the killer wanted CC to suffer. Poor CC nobody took him serious about those threatening letters. Not his employer, not LE, not anyone.
Let's leave CC alive so that he can sue his employer and local LE for not taking those threatening letters serious.
Let kill all 3 of his family members because that way the pay out will be bigger for CC.
Will kill his family and make him suffer while he stuffs his pockets full of all that lawsuit and life insurance money.

DogWood
05-28-2009, 11:22 PM
We have seen a signature on the quit deed...but, correct me if I am wrong...we have not seen the notary stamp on that document. We have just seen the first page.....


You're right! Come on SLT. Show us everthing!!

chestergal
05-28-2009, 11:29 PM
more sarcasm...

yeah the killer wanted CC to suffer. Poor CC nobody took him serious about those threatening letters. Not his employer, not LE, not anyone.
Let's leave CC alive so that he can sue his employer and local LE for not taking those threatening letters serious.
Let kill all 3 of his family members because that way the pay out will be bigger for CC.
Will kill his family and make him suffer while he stuffs his pockets full of all that lawsuit and life insurance money.


Point being the MCS caught on real fast to CC's motives. (1) Kill his family so he could avoid having to pay out anything to them in the event of a divorce. (2) Profit from their deaths in anyway he could.

Wrinkles
05-28-2009, 11:29 PM
One more time...because it demands repeating. I posted this earlier.

From this article (http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/784681.html)

>>"(Expletive)! Deny your God publicly or else! No more opportunities. Time is running out for you and your family."<<

PLEASE everyone note that this so-called threat says that time is running out for who? YOU YOU YOU -- also "and your family."

Then...

>>"I am giving you the last warning! You have not listened to me and you have not changed your ways. I have warned you to stop traveling and stop carrying on with this fake religious life of stealing people's money."<<

[again a so-called reference to CC doing something that had something to do with stealing people's money -- that wasn't Sheri that this so-called threat was supposed to be alluding to]

and

>>"You think you are so special to do what you do protecting or think you are protecting her. She is a b*tch and not worth doing it. Stop today or else. I know your schedule. ... This is my last warning. Your worst nightmare is about to happen!"<<

[again...the above is a so-called threat alluding to CC protecting JM]

The warning was to "YOU" ...

IF this was a real threat it was against "YOU" as in "Chris" and his family (secondary).

IF a perp knew the comings and goings of Chris and this family CHRIS would be dead now. Popped in the head by the ninja who was able to go in and murder three people and scribble on walls at a lightning 1 hour and 8 minute speed.

Chirs is not dead yet -- because Chris wrote those so-called threats.

Look at the "language" -- LOOK

Fairy1
05-28-2009, 11:31 PM
Heck no. If I were the mastermind killer, I would have done when I knew he was at work at night. Of course, he might have seen me on his fancy video camera setup, but so what. I would have worn a mask so I could not be identified.

That's what I was thinking! CC worked nights (which still strikes me as odd based on his position, but anyhoo) and if the letter-writing killer was actually targeting Sheri and the boys, they would have had plenty of perfect opportunities to commit the murders while CC was at work. Makes no sense...

I do tend to believe CC was somehow pushed into the final phase of his plan ahead of schedule for some reason. However, I am still waiting to hear if he was supposed to be at work the night before and if they were truly planning to separate or divorce. I would also like to know when he normally went to the gym...

I'm thinking he had to force the timeline in the morning because Sheri and the boys were expected elsewhere soon and people would have noticed they were not where they were supposed to be.

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 11:31 PM
Maybe this has been mentioned before and if it has my apologies for the rehash (sorry, it's hard to keep up with ya'll - gheesh, girl steps away to take care of life for a few and next thing you now we're two threads ahead :))

Anyhoo, has anyone mentioned overspray? Gloves or no gloves, CC would have had some residue whether he attempted shower off or not. Anyone done any spray paiting recently? I have, and it gets everywhere...unless of course you're sportin' tube socks and covered up with a sheet like a ghost. Overspray...wonder if they found any in his eyelashes, eyebrows, arm hair, tennish shoes, etc......With all of the spray painting going on, there had to be some evidence of it. He could have worn a ski mask to cover most of his head, a long sleeved shirt, and quite possibly those scrubs or he did it totally nude then took a shower (in which case there should be evidence in the drain). If he had on clothes, I would like to know where he could have dumped it all afterwards. Did he stop at a dumpster on the way to the gym where LE failed to check?

Wouldn't you think with all that paint there would be some footprints or shoe prints?

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 11:32 PM
more sarcasm...

yeah the killer wanted CC to suffer. Poor CC nobody took him serious about those threatening letters. Not his employer, not LE, not anyone.
Let's leave CC alive so that he can sue his employer and local LE for not taking those threatening letters serious.
Let kill all 3 of his family members because that way the pay out will be bigger for CC.
Will kill his family and make him suffer while he stuffs his pockets full of all that lawsuit and life insurance money.

Being sarcastic as well:

If the killer was watching CC as closely as CC seems to want us to believe, the killer would have known that killing the mistress in Florida would add to the suffering as well.

chestergal
05-28-2009, 11:34 PM
One more time...because it demands repeating. I posted this earlier.

From this article (http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/784681.html)

>>"(Expletive)! Deny your God publicly or else! No more opportunities. Time is running out for you and your family."<<

PLEASE everyone note that this so-called threat says that time is running out for who? YOU YOU YOU -- also "and your family."

Then...

>>"I am giving you the last warning! You have not listened to me and you have not changed your ways. I have warned you to stop traveling and stop carrying on with this fake religious life of stealing people's money."<<

[again a so-called reference to CC doing something that had something to do with stealing people's money -- that wasn't Sheri that this so-called threat was supposed to be alluding to]

and

>>"You think you are so special to do what you do protecting or think you are protecting her. She is a b*tch and not worth doing it. Stop today or else. I know your schedule. ... This is my last warning. Your worst nightmare is about to happen!"<<

[again...the above is a so-called threat alluding to CC protecting JM]

The warning was to "YOU" ...

IF this was a real threat it was against "YOU" as in "Chris" and his family (secondary).

IF a perp knew the comings and goings of Chris and this family CHRIS would be dead now. Popped in the head by the ninja who was able to go in and murder three people and scribble on walls at a lightning 1 hour and 8 minute speed.

Chirs is not dead yet -- because Chris wrote those so-called threats.

Look at the "language" -- LOOK


I love you wrinkles!

Wrinkles
05-28-2009, 11:36 PM
Smooch Mizzy ChesterG,

Did you get my PM the other day? I could swear I left you one ??

W

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 11:38 PM
With all of the spray painting going on, there had to be some evidence of it. He could have worn a ski mask to cover most of his head, a long sleeved shirt, and quite possibly those scrubs or he did it totally nude then took a shower (in which case there should be evidence in the drain). If he had on clothes, I would like to know where he could have dumped it all afterwards. Did he stop at a dumpster on the way to the gym where LE failed to check?

Wouldn't you think with all that paint there would be some footprints or shoe prints?

Yup.

There's that possibility that LE was taking paint from the door of CC's car IIRC. I think that shoe prints are the most likely though because there is always drip when you use those cans like he would have had to to get those messages up like that.

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 11:40 PM
Has anyone found out anything about the divorce papers cc told mm he had already filed? I think someone already asked, but the only place I have heard this is NG?If he filed, the media would have the papers as they are public record.

Of course, MM is going to stick with this story because she probably believes it makes her appear to be less of a backstabbing, horrible b*tch in some way, imo. However, it does not.

Wrinkles
05-28-2009, 11:42 PM
Ewwww good thinkin Mz Daisy,

DRIP....hmmm sole of shoes, hmmm and hmmmm...


Yup.

There's that possibility that LE was taking paint from the door of CC's car IIRC. I think that shoe prints are the most likely though because there is always drip when you use those cans like he would have had to to get those messages up like that.

chestergal
05-28-2009, 11:43 PM
One more time...because it demands repeating. I posted this earlier.

From this article (http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/784681.html)

>>"(Expletive)! Deny your God publicly or else! No more opportunities. Time is running out for you and your family."<<

PLEASE everyone note that this so-called threat says that time is running out for who? YOU YOU YOU -- also "and your family."

Then...

>>"I am giving you the last warning! You have not listened to me and you have not changed your ways. I have warned you to stop traveling and stop carrying on with this fake religious life of stealing people's money."<<

[again a so-called reference to CC doing something that had something to do with stealing people's money -- that wasn't Sheri that this so-called threat was supposed to be alluding to]

and

>>"You think you are so special to do what you do protecting or think you are protecting her. She is a b*tch and not worth doing it. Stop today or else. I know your schedule. ... This is my last warning. Your worst nightmare is about to happen!"<<

[again...the above is a so-called threat alluding to CC protecting JM]

The warning was to "YOU" ...

IF this was a real threat it was against "YOU" as in "Chris" and his family (secondary).

IF a perp knew the comings and goings of Chris and this family CHRIS would be dead now. Popped in the head by the ninja who was able to go in and murder three people and scribble on walls at a lightning 1 hour and 8 minute speed.

Chirs is not dead yet -- because Chris wrote those so-called threats.

Look at the "language" -- LOOK

The letters were a double sided coin for CC.
(1) He thought they would take the trail off of himself.
(2) And he could profit from the threats due to his employment. Look JM I told you you about these threats and you did nothing to help me and my family. It is your fault that they are dead and I am going to sue you and bring out all your dirty little secrets in the process. (CC knew JM would settle to avoid a lawsuit - maybe that is why CC also had his atty's number in his back pocket from day one. Keep it handy if they LE looks at him as the perp and if they don't, let's get rolling on that lawsuit with JM.)

gitana1
05-28-2009, 11:45 PM
What else is she going to say? ;)

Actually, what I heard is that he told her he had already filed for divorce, which would be interesting if true.

fran
05-28-2009, 11:47 PM
I don't get it, leaving the receipt and gloves in the house is such an obvious mistake. Does anybody think maybe he was high on drugs when he did this? I hadn't heard of LE doing any sort of alcohol or drug test on him when they first met up with him and found the bodies.

Sorry, I don't believe he was high or drunk or anything. Just stooopid and ............ok, never mind..........:slap:..........

I'm not going to make excuses for the accused. I've seen too many of these cases....IMHO, he's just plain evil..:mad:

JMHO
fran

daisy.faithfull
05-28-2009, 11:51 PM
The letters were a double sided coin for CC.
(1) He thought they would take the trail off of himself.
(2) And he could profit from the threats due to his employment. Look JM I told you you about these threats and you did nothing to help me and my family. It is your fault that they are dead and I am going to sue you and bring out all your dirty little secrets in the process. (CC knew JM would settle to avoid a lawsuit - maybe that is why CC also had his atty's number in his back pocket from day one. Keep it handy if they LE looks at him as the perp and if they don't, let's get rolling on that lawsuit with JM.)

Just wondering...
Do we know, or would we know if JM/JMM had done that before?

Makes me wonder if CC's family has any of those in their background?

SeriouslySearching
05-28-2009, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by rockman
Speaking of the hostess......This might have been discussed on one of the previous threads about this case, but I don't remember seeing it. I am surprised there are no current photos of MM other than the couple that were on a website. I would think the media or paparazzi (sp?) would be staked out on where she lives and works to try for a shot. Do you think she is in protective custody? Maybe a safe house with protection? Thoughts? I wish Nick Pistor's outlet would do a major followup on their story. Someone should be investigating Miss Motive and bringing it all out in the open, imo. I want to hear from her friends, her enemies (probably not the first married man she has bopped, imo), and her co-workers. I want to know the name of the club where she supposedly kept her clothes on and served male clients. I want to know how long the affair had gone on. I want to know how it started and who made the first move. I also want to know how she had the nerve to remain friends with Sheri while bopping her husband and planning to marry him! I want to know the person who steals her best friend's husband at the risk of harming her children, but instead...they end up murdered.

I am not saying she participated in these murders at all. However, in my opinion...she is part of the motive behind them.

curiositycat
05-28-2009, 11:55 PM
Being sarcastic as well:

If the killer was watching CC as closely as CC seems to want us to believe, the killer would have known that killing the mistress in Florida would add to the suffering as well.

Great post daisy! IMHO you may have just summed up the case for the prosecution with the last sentence!:blowkiss:

gitana1
05-28-2009, 11:56 PM
Yes JBean and it was your sister who accidentally saw the picture of poor little Samantha and had to suddenly leave the courtroom. I had a feeling she was upset and at break she told us she couldn't return. :(

I'll never forget that, or poor little Samantha.

Bless Erin, Samantha's mom. She valiantly sat through every single day of testimony and arguements. Remember how she'd lay her head side-ways on her husband's shoulder. Oh My Goodness.............:(

fran

I'm from Orange County and know the area where Samantha lived and the area where her body was found. But that case struck me harder than most not because of the proximity but because of the absolute, pure, radiant innocence and joy of that child. She was childhood personified, not a bad bone in her little body. Didn't they find her DNA in his car, near the passenger wall and thought it was from her tears? It just broke my heart. Her poor mother.

Wrinkles
05-28-2009, 11:56 PM
Hiya ChesterGal,

About the following...


The letters were a double sided coin for CC.
(1) He thought they would take the trail off of himself.
...

I would usually say, "Well what a dodo he was..." -- dodo is a nice word, I hate to waste a nice word on a wicked person. He boxed himself in with the words YOU AND YOU AND YOU. I hope that the SA takes note of that, for whatever purpose they can use it. IF these were threats against he and his family, he would have been killed and it wouldn't have been pretty. But, they weren't threats against he and his family because "he" wrote them.

Now then...about the noose... Did we read in the search warrants that a noose of the same material of the hay (straw) bales was found? If this is the case...then my guess is that the murder ligature was not left at the scene, but it was a) slipped on each victim and then b) slipped off. Does this not make this all the more sickening?

Many days ago, I wrote, you do not lay a ligature over someone, you must encircle them with it -- this is not like the "pop" you mentioned (and I could relate) -- this is a thoughtful process of placing a head into the ligature either a loop around the head, or a threading under a sleeping head and then around -- it is a purposeful, methodic killing.

curiositycat
05-28-2009, 11:58 PM
I bet soon we will hear from the mistress who will have worked through "He did it all for me" to "What a lying sack of do-do":)

chestergal
05-28-2009, 11:58 PM
Just wondering...
Do we know, or would we know if JM/JMM had done that before?

Makes me wonder if CC's family has any of those in their background?


Yeah 5 kids that drowned in the Meramac which JM claimed was not their fault - but she quietly settled with the families. (you do the research)

SeriouslySearching
05-29-2009, 12:00 AM
Actually, what I heard is that he told her he had already filed for divorce, which would be interesting if true.Maybe he meant "filed" as in he started premeditating Sheri's murder. It has the same meaning...kinda sorta. Either way, he is rid of her and free to marry Miss Motive. Ooops...correction...his plan didn't include a future date with the needle.

curiositycat
05-29-2009, 12:06 AM
found this on topix

leeloo

Perryville, MO
|
#38
1 hr ago

I believe that the cult will fall apart because they have no foundation to begin with. This will only set the fall in motion. Ron's behavior really isn't the issue for most part. The cult is full of sheep that will follow for a time, but he will try to use church funds or ask for "donations" to fund his son's defense. He will not use his own personal funds. Ron Coleman is a self centered man that is only concerned about how this affects him. His actions through all of this do not surprise me or anyone that truly knows him. I have heard him speak of those grandchildren from the pulpit and they were most often derogatory remarks.

I was also privy to information on the father of
Ron years ago at a womens meeting I attended years ago. This info came from Ron's sister. She admitted to me that their father had molested her while she was growing up. Believe me, I have no idea why she offered this information to me, but she did. She was the guest speaker for the 3 day meetings and had not been home in many years and to my knowledge has not been back since. This is one messed up family.

I believe that a large percentage of men who are abusive had abusive fathers also. http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2000/E/200004061.html

chestergal
05-29-2009, 12:09 AM
Hiya ChesterGal,

About the following...



I would usually say, "Well what a dodo he was..." -- dodo is a nice word, I hate to waste a nice word on a wicked person. He boxed himself in with the words YOU AND YOU AND YOU. I hope that the SA takes note of that, for whatever purpose they can use it. IF these were threats against he and his family, he would have been killed and it wouldn't have been pretty. But, they weren't threats against he and his family because "he" wrote them.

Now then...about the noose... Did we read in the search warrants that a noose of the same material of the hay (straw) bales was found? If this is the case...then my guess is that the murder ligature was not left at the scene, but it was a) slipped on each victim and then b) slipped off. Does this not make this all the more sickening?

Many days ago, I wrote, you do not lay a ligature over someone, you must encircle them with it -- this is not like the "pop" you mentioned (and I could relate) -- this is a thoughtful process of placing a head into the ligature either a loop around the head, or a threading under a sleeping head and then around -- it is a purposeful, methodic killing.

SW did not have anything in them about what was found off the scene.
The media is announcing that "orange" twine was found on I-255 with a noose like knot on one end of it and that "orange" twine is very much like the twine found wrapped around straw bales that were in the backyard of the Coleman home in Columbia.
The media is saying that was used like a garrote on the victims.
If you want I can go into this and how it was done but really all you have to do is look at the Benet case and the garrote style that was used on her.

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 12:12 AM
I wish Nick Pistor's outlet would do a major followup on their story. Someone should be investigating Miss Motive and bringing it all out in the open, imo. I want to hear from her friends, her enemies (probably not the first married man she has bopped, imo), and her co-workers. I want to know the name of the club where she supposedly kept her clothes on and served male clients. I want to know how long the affair had gone on. I want to know how it started and who made the first move. I also want to know how she had the nerve to remain friends with Sheri while bopping her husband and planning to marry him! I want to know the person who steals her best friend's husband at the risk of harming her children, but instead...they end up murdered.

I am not saying she participated in these murders at all. However, in my opinion...she is part of the motive behind them.

And we know that LE talked to people down there.

I want to know too, but I'm afraid if I do I'll be more upset she isn't in the slammer along with CC.

Ya know, considering the company she may keep, I'm kinda surprised none of her "friends" have gone to the media. Seems they might be the kind that like attention too...

Kimster
05-29-2009, 12:15 AM
Adnoid just WISHES I were a hostess at his gentlemens club.

You can feel free to give me a TO for going OT. Maybe a couple weeks?

It wasn't YOU I was going to TO :crazy: Okay okay, we better stop before he puts us both out!

Wrinkles
05-29-2009, 12:16 AM
And again from what we have read: (http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/783119.html)

>>He described messages he'd seen spray-painted in red on walls. Laced with obscenities, they appear to have been directed at Sheri Coleman and include "punished" in the downstairs dining room, "whore paid" or "u have paid" in an upstairs room and "I saw you leave, (expletive) you, I am always watching" in the kitchen.<<

IF the words were "u have paid" -- then this was a slip in the consistency of the style that the so-called threatmeister tried to weave. They used the word "you" (not "u") in the so-called threats -- when they had time to try and think how they wanted to concoct their plan. IF the words "u have paid" were used -- if I were the SA, I would be all over the emails and texts of CC looking for a pattern of this use.

The usage of "u" in texting and emailing would be something you might see in a thread of someone's communications. I have probably written well over 50,000 emails in the last 10 years (support work) and I have NEVER use "u" instead of "you" in writing. Yes, there are many of the younger set who probably use this.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 12:17 AM
Maybe this has been mentioned before and if it has my apologies for the rehash (sorry, it's hard to keep up with ya'll - gheesh, girl steps away to take care of life for a few and next thing you now we're two threads ahead :))

Anyhoo, has anyone mentioned overspray? Gloves or no gloves, CC would have had some residue whether he attempted shower off or not. Anyone done any spray paiting recently? I have, and it gets everywhere...unless of course you're sportin' tube socks and covered up with a sheet like a ghost. Overspray...wonder if they found any in his eyelashes, eyebrows, arm hair, tennish shoes, etc......

Great point! I just did a little spray painting today in a small area and got some on my arm!!!

Wrinkles
05-29-2009, 12:20 AM
Puhleese, someone tell me that CCs body was inspected and that his clothes (in gym bag) were confiscated PRIOR TO the May 14th date I am seeing on documents.

Can anyone help me with seeing a date earlier than that?

who knew?
05-29-2009, 12:21 AM
I wish Nick Pistor's outlet would do a major followup on their story. Someone should be investigating Miss Motive and bringing it all out in the open, imo. I want to hear from her friends, her enemies (probably not the first married man she has bopped, imo), and her co-workers. I want to know the name of the club where she supposedly kept her clothes on and served male clients. I want to know how long the affair had gone on. I want to know how it started and who made the first move. I also want to know how she had the nerve to remain friends with Sheri while bopping her husband and planning to marry him! I want to know the person who steals her best friend's husband at the risk of harming her children, but instead...they end up murdered.

I am not saying she participated in these murders at all. However, in my opinion...she is part of the motive behind them.



Just thinking out loud -Is it possible that CC and MM could have a baby, or be expecting one? Has anyone mentioned this already? That would explain the need for a lot of cash - also maybe why we have not seen recent pictures.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 12:21 AM
That's what I was thinking! CC worked nights (which still strikes me as odd based on his position, but anyhoo) and if the letter-writing killer was actually targeting Sheri and the boys, they would have had plenty of perfect opportunities to commit the murders while CC was at work. Makes no sense...

I do tend to believe CC was somehow pushed into the final phase of his plan ahead of schedule for some reason. However, I am still waiting to hear if he was supposed to be at work the night before and if they were truly planning to separate or divorce. I would also like to know when he normally went to the gym...

I'm thinking he had to force the timeline in the morning because Sheri and the boys were expected elsewhere soon and people would have noticed they were not where they were supposed to be.

....like school? Wasn't it a school day?

who knew?
05-29-2009, 12:26 AM
found this on topix

I was also privy to information on the father of
Ron years ago at a womens meeting I attended years ago. This info came from Ron's sister. She admitted to me that their father had molested her while she was growing up. Believe me, I have no idea why she offered this information to me, but she did. She was the guest speaker for the 3 day meetings and had not been home in many years and to my knowledge has not been back since. This is one messed up family.

This is totally a shock to me -


Never mind - I realize you were quoting another post. Duh!

Wrinkles
05-29-2009, 12:27 AM
note to self and gang:

The SWs have information in them telling the text of the threats, was this information told to the police at the scene of the crime, i.e. as in told to Sgt. Donjon (as if someone memorized it and repeated it to him) OR did this text get retrieved from something that had been put on record with the police prior to the fact and got added into the SW with the report?

chestergal
05-29-2009, 12:28 AM
Wrinkles...

What I am trying to point out to you is - don't think of the noose like knot as being placed over their heads.
A Garrote is not a noose - but a garrote can use noose like knots on each end of the rope (or twine) - something like a stick is placed into the noose like knots on each end of rope. (the noose like knots are more secure than simple knot)
so now you have a garrote that look like this

I@---------------@I

I@ = sticks placed in noose like knots
---- = twine or rope

The rope or twine is quickly placed around the neck and the excess is quickly twisted and the sticks give the perp something to control and hold the twist in the rope. That is how a garrote works.

Typically hair will be found wrapped in with the rope or twine. Sheri had long enough hair and they may have found Sheri's hair with the piece of orange twine.

If he used the bale twine off one bale (both pieces off the bale) then he would have about 8 to 9 ft of twine from each of the bale loops. (A total of 16 to 18ft to work with)

Kimster
05-29-2009, 12:32 AM
And we know that LE talked to people down there.

I want to know too, but I'm afraid if I do I'll be more upset she isn't in the slammer along with CC.

Ya know, considering the company she may keep, I'm kinda surprised none of her "friends" have gone to the media. Seems they might be the kind that like attention too...

When is the release date for the next issue of the National Enquirer?

SeriouslySearching
05-29-2009, 12:35 AM
note to self and gang:

The SWs have information in them telling the text of the threats, was this information told to the police at the scene of the crime, i.e. as in told to Sgt. Donjon (as if someone memorized it and repeated it to him) OR did this text get retrieved from something that had been put on record with the police prior to the fact and got added into the SW with the report?Or did LE get the information from one of his computers? (Altho...IIRC...LE was given the notes he supposedly received before.)

Kimster
05-29-2009, 12:36 AM
And again from what we have read: (http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/783119.html)

>>He described messages he'd seen spray-painted in red on walls. Laced with obscenities, they appear to have been directed at Sheri Coleman and include "punished" in the downstairs dining room, "whore paid" or "u have paid" in an upstairs room and "I saw you leave, (expletive) you, I am always watching" in the kitchen.<<

IF the words were "u have paid" -- then this was a slip in the consistency of the style that the so-called threatmeister tried to weave. They used the word "you" (not "u") in the so-called threats -- when they had time to try and think how they wanted to concoct their plan. IF the words "u have paid" were used -- if I were the SA, I would be all over the emails and texts of CC looking for a pattern of this use.

The usage of "u" in texting and emailing would be something you might see in a thread of someone's communications. I have probably written well over 50,000 emails in the last 10 years (support work) and I have NEVER use "u" instead of "you" in writing. Yes, there are many of the younger set who probably use this.

"u" is often used in texting...er...sexting? I don't know about the sexting part. Today was the first time I'd ever heard of that!:waitasec:

SeriouslySearching
05-29-2009, 12:38 AM
Just thinking out loud -Is it possible that CC and MM could have a baby, or be expecting one? Has anyone mentioned this already? That would explain the need for a lot of cash - also maybe why we have not seen recent pictures.Actually, I did bring up that possibility early on, but when we heard that Miss Motive had ordered wedding invitations for early 2010...I figured she probably isn't pregnant. Ooooo...but I never thought of them having one already! Hmmm...

Kimster
05-29-2009, 12:38 AM
note to self and gang:

The SWs have information in them telling the text of the threats, was this information told to the police at the scene of the crime, i.e. as in told to Sgt. Donjon (as if someone memorized it and repeated it to him) OR did this text get retrieved from something that had been put on record with the police prior to the fact and got added into the SW with the report?

I've been wondering that myself.

Fairy1
05-29-2009, 12:45 AM
....like school? Wasn't it a school day?

:blowkiss: YES!!!! :blowkiss:

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 12:51 AM
found this on topix

leeloo

Perryville, MO
|
#38
1 hr ago

I believe that the cult will fall apart because they have no foundation to begin with. This will only set the fall in motion. Ron's behavior really isn't the issue for most part. The cult is full of sheep that will follow for a time, but he will try to use church funds or ask for "donations" to fund his son's defense. He will not use his own personal funds. Ron Coleman is a self centered man that is only concerned about how this affects him. His actions through all of this do not surprise me or anyone that truly knows him. I have heard him speak of those grandchildren from the pulpit and they were most often derogatory remarks.

I was also privy to information on the father of
Ron years ago at a womens meeting I attended years ago. This info came from Ron's sister. She admitted to me that their father had molested her while she was growing up. Believe me, I have no idea why she offered this information to me, but she did. She was the guest speaker for the 3 day meetings and had not been home in many years and to my knowledge has not been back since. This is one messed up family.

I know we are supposed to take all of this stuff with a grain of salt, but considering CC's actions I'm not at all surprised.

I can't remember who it was that expressed concern for CC's mother and how she has been treated throughout her life, but I can't think that it has been easy. If divorce is frowned upon now a days in that community I cannot even imagine what the attitude was like back then. Not at all excusing any excuses that she may make for CC, because it certainly looks like she has been making excuses for a looooooooooooong time... just makes everything just that more tragic, if such a thing is even possible.:shakehead:

Especially considering where this woman may be at in her life's journey and the clarity that is accompanied with it, is it possible this woman will step forward if not for Sheri, then for her grandkids?

WestSideGal
05-29-2009, 12:51 AM
Puhleese, someone tell me that CCs body was inspected and that his clothes (in gym bag) were confiscated PRIOR TO the May 14th date I am seeing on documents.

Can anyone help me with seeing a date earlier than that?

The way I read them is that the search warrants were issued on the 5th (at various times throughout the day) for him, his vehicle and the house, ordered sealed on the 14th and ordered opened and released on the 27th.

EDIT: The second SW for the house (to include the bales of straw) was issued on the 8th.

who knew?
05-29-2009, 12:54 AM
Actually, I did bring up that possibility early on, but when we heard that Miss Motive had ordered wedding invitations for early 2010...I figured she probably isn't pregnant. Ooooo...but I never thought of them having one already! Hmmm...

I can't figure out why she is being kept hidden from everyone - when messes like this become public, news sources camp out in front of homes - follow them wherever they go - dig for info from any place they can find it including their trash cans on trash pick-up day. (I'm sure there is a joke in that last line, but I'm not going there. :eek: ) Anyone who has ever laid eyes on the person would be talking...... So I wonder what the deal is on her. Why is she being so.....protected?????...by everyone? This really has me stumped.

Fairy1
05-29-2009, 01:02 AM
I know we are supposed to take all of this stuff with a grain of salt, but considering CC's actions I'm not at all surprised.

I can't remember who it was that expressed concern for CC's mother and how she has been treated throughout her life, but I can't think that it has been easy. If divorce is frowned upon now a days in that community I cannot even imagine what the attitude was like back then. Not at all excusing any excuses that she may make for CC, because it certainly looks like she has been making excuses for a looooooooooooong time... just makes everything just that more tragic, if such a thing is even possible.:shakehead:

Especially considering where this woman may be at in her life's journey and the clarity that is accompanied with it, is it possible this woman will step forward if not for Sheri, then for her grandkids?

I was really surprised to hear the rumors that RC's flock had called for his resignation, I had really not expected that. Is that maybe one more thing that makes it just that much harder for CC's mother to ignore the truth. I can't imagine that the Anthony's were a terribly social couple so the ostracization might be easier to overlook (although I just don't see how), for the Coleman's its just going to be so obvious.

I did not know that RC's "flock" called for his resignation. Did I miss that?

I do feel sorry for CC's mother. It has been reported that she is very ill - hence the visit to the hospital when LE was tailing CC. I don't believe any mother wants to ever face the fact they have raised a child willing and able to murder his own wife and children. They have been silent thus far - as far as I know. That says a lot to me. I have said that if my son killed ANYONE...I would know it as soon as I looked into his eyes. I can't imagine CC's mom is any different.

Wrinkles
05-29-2009, 01:03 AM
Hiya ChesterG,

I kinda got the garrotte thing (ugh, looked at it long before when looking at the JBR thing), but my point was whether noose or garrotte or wire, when there is ligature strangulation, something must eventually "encircle" the victims neck. This takes effort... For one disgusting millisecond, envision someone lying on the bed with their head on a pillow...just how do you get the garrotte or noose, whatever might be used, around the neck without a) going directly under their neck (purposely -- you feel their body) or b) going over their head (purposely you move their head accordingly) then slipping the ligature around their neck. My point was merely the disgusting overt, purposeful touching for the sake of murdering -- not like standing back and aiming a firearm or something else.

BTW, I had an experience the other night -- it was not pleasant and almost took me to a panic. Immediately after the fact, I started thinking of this case. I have a heart problem that causes me to go breathless sometimes (bradycardia and other arrhythmias), particularly at night. When that occurs, I am prone to start throwing off covers (natural response to "give me air"), making sure my nightgown is not, for some reason, restricting my neck in any way, and checking that my necklaces are not doing so either. Well, the other night, my shorter necklace was right into my skin at the front of my neck -- not much, but against it. I started to try to get it off and because most of my fingernails nails were short, I could not. I almost started flipping out -- started digging at my neck, then calmed down (the chain on this necklace is not strong enough to do anyone damage.) I finally rationalized and gently slipped a long nail under the chain to loosen it from my skin.

The above made me think of that which I might do if someone had put a ligature around me. I am "fluffy" -- not skin and bones like I used to be, but I would have had to gouge my neck to dig in to it and get behind a ligature.

The whole experience made me ache inside -- I knew my hands were free to help me get air, in the event something was constricting my neck. I can only imagine that the murderer of Sheri and the children did not leave arms/hands free to do anything to stop the plan. IF there were no defensive moves of the victims, i.e. even just to defend their own breathing by trying to free their neck (gouging, digging at the neck) -- the murderer restricted their arms. And again, if anyone from the SA's office does any reading here, I hope they will use information such as this to pound to the jury the heinous act of this murderer.

Melanie
05-29-2009, 01:05 AM
Point being the MCS caught on real fast to CC's motives. (1) Kill his family so he could avoid having to pay out anything to them in the event of a divorce. (2) Profit from their deaths in anyway he could.

Divorce is one thing -- between a husband and wife. I look at Drew Peterson (and his alleged killing of his wives) -- he didn't kill his kids.

There has to be a demon in CC to kill the darling little boys and wife (I almost said his boys -- but they don't belong to him...he best not dare say their names).

There's a special place in hell waiting for him. I sure hope it starts here on earth!

What's that saying -- Money is the root of all evil?

:furious:

who knew?
05-29-2009, 01:06 AM
:sleep: I'm outta here for tonight -

Wrinkles
05-29-2009, 01:08 AM
Hello WestSideGal,

I hope your following is accurate -- I can't imagine waiting longer than seeing CC at the scene to want to make sure he was searched, along with all else.


The way I read them is that the search warrants were issued on the 5th (at various times throughout the day) for him, his vehicle and the house, ordered sealed on the 14th and ordered opened and released on the 27th.

EDIT: The second SW for the house (to include the bales of straw) was issued on the 8th.

chestergal
05-29-2009, 01:14 AM
Over on this topix board someone suggested that people listen to the Halloween sermon that up on the GCM website. (RC gave it)

www.dotheword.com

I cannot play this kinda stuff on my computer but maybe some of you can and report back what was said in the sermon.

TIA


hr ago
leeloo wrote:
Anyone that would like to hear Ron Coleman speak can go to dotheword.com and listen to the recorded messages. I highly recommend the Halloween sermon if it is still up, it will show you how ignorant this man is.
WOW! that was very interesting to say the least. It gives you a little insight on how CC was raised. He just babbles on. I listened to the holloween story, and he was just making up stuff on the fly. He talked about how he never let his kids celebrate holloween and then remarked how fine they turned out and actually said "there not retarded from it" WOW!

chestergal
05-29-2009, 01:32 AM
Typical Ron Coleman peep garbage...


snmap
Sparta, IL
Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#17 Yesterday
Well, I should not respond, but I will. I personally attend Grace Ministries and I personally know Ronald Coleman...

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbia-il/TTVSSJSGP2EPI8JBB



LOL... these fools actually believe that police has only given us 10% truth about this case.
Of course these people never would believe that RC is an ex-con, they don't even want to believe that the police are telling us the truth when it comes to CC.
Be warned WS's of anyone who adamantly defends RC and also claims they don't attend GCM.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 01:43 AM
I guess I'm going to have to listen to one of RC's sermons myself at some point. For some reason, I'm not looking forward to it.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 01:46 AM
Okay, I'm going to listen to one, but not the Halloween one. I don't celebrate Halloween either. But not because I'm afraid my kids would be retarded! <yikes!>

Fairy1
05-29-2009, 02:02 AM
Typical Ron Coleman peep garbage...


snmap
Sparta, IL
Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#17 Yesterday
Well, I should not respond, but I will. I personally attend Grace Ministries and I personally know Ronald Coleman. What we have here is a bunch of people "speculating" at everyone's actions without knowing any facts. You are getting 90% fiction from the media and 10% truth from the police. Ronald and Connie Coleman are the most outstanding people ever! Our church is still following our pastors because we know (because we know them personally, not by association of the press) that they are men and women of God that are in the most tragic situation. He is not going anywhere and no one is kicking him out. But, you guys wouldn't know that because you don't attend our church. So, stop speculating and get some REAL facts! Pastor Ron and Connie....we love you guys and stand behind you till the end! No matter what comes out guilty or not guilty, you are still our leaders in Christ and God loves you and so do we! Our support is with you and your family and may God give you peace through all of this!

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbia-il/TTVSSJSGP2EPI8JBB



LOL... these fools actually believe that police has only given us 10% truth about this case.
Of course these people never would believe that RC is an ex-con, they don't even want to believe that the police are telling us the truth when it comes to CC.
Be warned WS's of anyone who adamantly defends RC and also claims they don't attend GCM.

Oh my goodness! IIRC, anyone just off the street cannot attend this church, right? I bet the reporters in the area are knocking each other down to get in there right now and I'm sure they will all be denied. Impossible to get any facts if that is the case. Then again, my guess is that is exactly what the church is counting on....more than ever before!

Seems they do have their detractors though. Wonder why:rolleyes:

chestergal
05-29-2009, 02:31 AM
Oh my goodness! IIRC, anyone just off the street cannot attend this church, right? I bet the reporters in the area are knocking each other down to get in there right now and I'm sure they will all be denied. Impossible to get any facts if that is the case. Then again, my guess is that is exactly what the church is counting on....more than ever before!

Seems they do have their detractors though. Wonder why:rolleyes:


Detractors are the ones that have woke up and saw exactly what was happening to them.
True detractors of GCM will not defend RC as the core of GCM is RC.

Reporters in this area are probably part of GCM. The story in this weeks local paper was very neutral and was simply a reprint of the MCS's announcement from the night they arrested CC.

The MCS had one hell of a time getting anyone in this town to talk to them.
This is because (1) The people they were trying to get info out of were GCM members. (2) Or the people they talked to did not know enough about GCM because people who know GCM don't socialize with people who don't go to GCM. (3) Or if they are ex GCM members that are too scared to talk against GCM because this is such a small town.

The problem is we know there is a big following at the church but it's not like the members walk around with GCM tattooed on their foreheads. So you have to be very careful who you talk to in this town about GCM because you never know if the person you are talking to attends GCM.

I guess someone could stand off the GCM property and video tape everyone that walks into GCM to know who exactly goes in there. But the problem is someone would see you taping them going into the church and some would know who the person is that is taping them. So no one in this town would be brave enough to do this. You would probably get a knock on your door by a group of GCM members who would want to know why you were taping the people going into the church.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 02:32 AM
Okay, I just listened to one of his sermons called "Are You Real?" I wasn't thinking about it when I chose that one, it was pretty much random in my conscience thinking...but oh my gosh! EERIE when I realized he preached it one month before CC killed the family and it was AIMED at people like his OWN SON. I'm sure he didn't know this, though!

Honestly, I didn't think it was that different from many pentecostal type preaching. (Is this a pentecostal church?) There was too much emphasis on "works", IMO. ("Works" is a Christian term, for those not familiar with it...it means what you have to do to gain something). I also didn't like it when he said "you have to go beyond the cross" when the cross is where we are to lay at the feet of Jesus..there isn't any going beyond.

So, I know I'm getting deep but I wanted to give a couple of detailed examples of what I disagreed with so you guys could see that it was more of a doctrine difference than anything.

I did feel he "attacked" people with tatoos somewhat. But he also said he wasn't trying to pick on them, per say...just asking what was the motive behind getting the tattoo. I guess he would ask me what my motive is by posting here and does it serve the cause of Christ or not, too. :crazy:

What was chilling was when he said that "life is all about choices". That made my hair stand up on end!

So, there's a briefing on my take of one of RC's sermons. Please note that I am a Bible believer and not into people's religions. Just the Bible...and so that's where I'm coming from with my synopsis.

And I didn't hear him ask for any money.

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 02:39 AM
I did not know that RC's "flock" called for his resignation. Did I miss that?

No you didn't Fairy1. I was a rumor that was proven false. And I'd like to say that I "missed" it, but I thanked the post that dispelled the rumor AND have it scribbled through in my notes. Thank you for catching that one :blowkiss:. I went up and corrected the post with my apologies.


I do feel sorry for CC's mother. It has been reported that she is very ill - hence the visit to the hospital when LE was tailing CC. I don't believe any mother wants to ever face the fact they have raised a child willing and able to murder his own wife and children. They have been silent thus far - as far as I know. That says a lot to me. I have said that if my son killed ANYONE...I would know it as soon as I looked into his eyes. I can't imagine CC's mom is any different.

I don't know, I don't have any children, but I'd like to think that would be the case... :shakehead: He must have some problem looking people in the eye, he was avoiding Sheri's family.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 02:40 AM
OH YEAH! There was another part of the sermon where he was saying he didn't care if you wanted to be Al Capone (or some other gangster) but just don't be a part Christian and part world person. If you're going to choose one way of life then just DO IT. In hindsight, if he could hear his own words....oh my gosh!


I hope this made sense...he was talking about either be a Christian or be a non-Christian, just don't try to do both cuz it doesn't work. CHILLING.

chestergal
05-29-2009, 02:50 AM
O (Is this a pentecostal church?)
And I didn't hear him ask for any money.

No - some form of new age christian ministry

They won't ask for money - The sermons are probably from his radio show.
Members who attend the church are suppose to donate 20% of their earnings I have heard. If they don't they are pressured and eventually thrown out if they don't give 20%. I have heard they even ask to see W-2's and tax returns if you want to stay a member. (this is hearsay but I have heard this from several people from this town at different times. I have heard other stories but I don't want to post them on here cause they could cause me to be ID'd)

Kimster
05-29-2009, 02:53 AM
No you didn't Fairy1. I was a rumor that was proven false. And I'd like to say that I "missed" it, but I thanked the post that dispelled the rumor AND have it scribbled through in my notes. Thank you for catching that one :blowkiss:. I went up and corrected the post with my apologies.



I don't know, I don't have any children, but I'd like to think that would be the case... :shakehead: He must have some problem looking people in the eye, he was avoiding Sheri's family.

Someone claiming to be a member of Sheri's family has been posting on the STLToday boards. People have been very supportive there and for that I'm glad!

Kimster
05-29-2009, 02:56 AM
No - some form of new age christian ministry

They won't ask for money - The sermons are probably from his radio show.
Members who attend the church are suppose to donate 20% of their earnings I have heard. If they don't they are pressured and eventually thrown out if they don't give 20%. I have heard they even ask to see W-2's and tax returns if you want to stay a member. (this is hearsay but I have heard this from several people from this town at different times. I have heard other stories but I don't want to post them on here cause they could cause me to be ID'd)

Interesting. I'm sure we wouldn't hear any of that online! Well, I don't want to get into a doctrinal debate..there are plenty of other places online for that. But, I did feel I should hear him for myself and I'm glad I did. Rather than be shook up about his preaching, I was more shook up over the subject matter in light of what happened a mere month later! Oh my gosh...very eerie!!!

chestergal
05-29-2009, 02:57 AM
No you didn't Fairy1. I was a rumor that was proven false. And I'd like to say that I "missed" it, but I thanked the post that dispelled the rumor AND have it scribbled through in my notes. Thank you for catching that one :blowkiss:. I went up and corrected the post with my apologies.



I don't know, I don't have any children, but I'd like to think that would be the case... :shakehead: He must have some problem looking people in the eye, he was avoiding Sheri's family.


One poster said RC had resigned.
They asked me if I heard anything yet about it.
I told them I didn't know if he resigned or not but that I have been hearing rumors from non-GCM people that some GCM members are threatening to leave GCM if he does not resign. (I took it as these were GCM members whispering about leaving GCM if RC did not resign on his own free will.)

So maybe someone took my post that GCM members were publicly calling for RC to resign.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 03:01 AM
:timeforbed: Goodnight Friends!

chestergal
05-29-2009, 03:12 AM
Do church's typically have a men only meeting night?

GCM does a men only meeting night on Monday nights (there are no women only meeting nights at GCM)

chestergal
05-29-2009, 03:22 AM
:timeforbed: Goodnight Friends!


Nite....

Here is GCM About Us Page

http://www.highpraises.net/grace/aboutus.html

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 03:25 AM
Do church's typically have a men only meeting night?

GCM does a men only meeting night on Monday nights (there are no women only meeting nights at GCM)

That's interesting. I've never heard of men's or woman's night in relationship to any religion. Sounds horribly sexist to my ears...

I think I remember on JMM's website she was promoting something that sounded geared towards empowering women. Lemme see if it's still up.

chestergal
05-29-2009, 03:30 AM
GCM Radio Sermon Pages

http://www.highpraises.net/grace/messages.html
http://www.highpraises.net/grace/archive.html

chestergal
05-29-2009, 03:33 AM
That's interesting. I've never heard of men's or woman's night in relationship to any religion. Sounds horribly sexist to my ears...

I think I remember on JMM's website she was promoting something that sounded geared towards empowering women. Lemme see if it's still up.


here is the GCM page that shows monday night is the men's meeting night
also they have usher/security meetings
http://www.highpraises.net/grace/events.html

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 03:38 AM
http://www.joycemeyer.org/womensconference

"Women’s Conference 2009 is about believing you can change the world by choosing to purposely and aggressively help other people. Our speakers for the conference all have a heart for outreach and will be sharing inspiring messages about how God is using people like you to reach the poor and the lost around the world.

Joyce Meyer will be joined by guest speakers Pastor Tommy Barnett of Phoenix First in Arizona; Christine Caine of Equip & Empower Ministries, Australia; and Pastor Paul Scanlon of Abundant Life Church in England.

We are also thrilled to announce our weekend worship leaders—the British Christian band Delirious? and singer/songwriter Israel Houghton.

Girls, we’re looking ahead to an amazing conference and cannot wait to be surrounded once again by thousands of women like you! One person can make an unbelievable difference. This is your time to shine.

Get the revolution started at home by inviting a friend to attend. You could be the person God uses to change her life!"

Looks like it is a big ol' conference.

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 03:45 AM
here is the GCM page that shows monday night is the men's meeting night
also they have usher/security meetings
http://www.highpraises.net/grace/events.html

If you go to July there is a "Girlz Camp" and then latter that week a "Boyz Camp"... Just makes it all the more peculiar that there would be a weekly nite for men but none for women.

chestergal
05-29-2009, 03:48 AM
Daisy - I am gonna go to bed.
I will probably be on here later today (Friday)

G'Nite!

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 04:08 AM
Daisy - I am gonna go to bed.
I will probably be on here later today (Friday)

G'Nite!

Nite Chestergal and everyone!
Until "tomorrow".... same bat time same bat channel :seeya:

(I know it won't be the same time, or really the same channel for us here at WS, but wouldn't it be hillllarrrrious if NG said that at the end of her show sometime... :crazy:)

rollinon86
05-29-2009, 04:34 AM
Puhleese, someone tell me that CCs body was inspected and that his clothes (in gym bag) were confiscated PRIOR TO the May 14th date I am seeing on documents.

Can anyone help me with seeing a date earlier than that?

Wrinkles, the warrant for confiscating these things was signed by the judge on May 5 at 11:59 AM. :) I assume they acted on that right away!

rollinon86
05-29-2009, 04:35 AM
....like school? Wasn't it a school day?

Exactly, Kimster. It WAS a school day!

Lindadanette
05-29-2009, 04:39 AM
I can't figure out why she is being kept hidden from everyone - when messes like this become public, news sources camp out in front of homes - follow them wherever they go - dig for info from any place they can find it including their trash cans on trash pick-up day. (I'm sure there is a joke in that last line, but I'm not going there. :eek: ) Anyone who has ever laid eyes on the person would be talking...... So I wonder what the deal is on her. Why is she being so.....protected?????...by everyone? This really has me stumped.

Just catching up. . . I can't imagine either. There was a tiny article about the murders in our local paper, and NO mention of MM at all. A couple of people wrote comments regarding "the affair", and then zip, nada.

It's the same with JMM, only the tiniest mention. Central Florida is a stronghold for the bible belt and I've heard that JMM has a "prayer house" ie; vacation retreat somewhere around here (Trinity?). I can't help thinking that neither JMM or MM want the truth spilled out for all to see and I would love to know what kind of pressure JMM has been using to squash media speculation.

Lindadanette
05-29-2009, 05:06 AM
here is the GCM page that shows monday night is the men's meeting night
also they have usher/security meetings
http://www.highpraises.net/grace/events.html


It's not at all unusual for non-denom churches to have separate men's and women's events. The Monday men's meeting might be something like Promise Keepers:

http://www.promisekeepers.org/

They're also into big venue mass indoctrination of what they believe is the "right" way for men to be - and on the face of it, it's a wonderful premise. The biggest problem with all of the non-denoms is that they become "cult of personalities" that end up exalting the particular leader as "ordained by God" (Yeah, and the special "gift" they have is the same one any good con man has - the power of persuasion)

Sadly, it's a fickle and fey method to control the sheep by "winning them over to God". There is a clear deliniation between the entitled and the rest of the flock, and it has little or nothing to do with The Shepherd.

bam
05-29-2009, 05:11 AM
Thank you 4 Sharing this. I went and looked around and the links that they had to other ministries are the same people that the Charismatic Church I had fled from had. Very eery. They have so called Prophets. Why didn't any Prophet warn them?
Nite....

Here is GCM About Us Page

http://www.highpraises.net/grace/aboutus.html

WholeLottaRosie
05-29-2009, 06:24 AM
If he filed, the media would have the papers as they are public record.

Of course, MM is going to stick with this story because she probably believes it makes her appear to be less of a backstabbing, horrible b*tch in some way, imo. However, it does not.

In many ways, I think it makes her look worse.

WholeLottaRosie
05-29-2009, 06:26 AM
I wish Nick Pistor's outlet would do a major followup on their story. Someone should be investigating Miss Motive and bringing it all out in the open, imo. I want to hear from her friends, her enemies (probably not the first married man she has bopped, imo), and her co-workers. I want to know the name of the club where she supposedly kept her clothes on and served male clients. I want to know how long the affair had gone on. I want to know how it started and who made the first move. I also want to know how she had the nerve to remain friends with Sheri while bopping her husband and planning to marry him! I want to know the person who steals her best friend's husband at the risk of harming her children, but instead...they end up murdered.

I am not saying she participated in these murders at all. However, in my opinion...she is part of the motive behind them.

Wow, Seriously, you and I do think a lot alike. I want to know all of those things.

Lola
05-29-2009, 07:31 AM
LOL... these fools actually believe that police has only given us 10% truth about this case.
Of course these people never would believe that RC is an ex-con, they don't even want to believe that the police are telling us the truth when it comes to CC.
Be warned WS's of anyone who adamantly defends RC and also claims they don't attend GCM.

If that's true, I doubt they're gonna like the other 90% much better. It'll only get worse once all the evidence comes to light. Wonder what the faithful will do then?

daisy.faithfull
05-29-2009, 07:42 AM
It's not at all unusual for non-denom churches to have separate men's and women's events. The Monday men's meeting might be something like Promise Keepers:

http://www.promisekeepers.org/

They're also into big venue mass indoctrination of what they believe is the "right" way for men to be - and on the face of it, it's a wonderful premise. The biggest problem with all of the non-denoms is that they become "cult of personalities" that end up exalting the particular leader as "ordained by God" (Yeah, and the special "gift" they have is the same one any good con man has - the power of persuasion)

Sadly, it's a fickle and fey method to control the sheep by "winning them over to God". There is a clear deliniation between the entitled and the rest of the flock, and it has little or nothing to do with The Shepherd.

But there are no women's meetings, is it common to only have men's meeting and none for the women?

TallCoolOne
05-29-2009, 08:54 AM
I am playing Devil's advocate here...but I hope there is forensic evidence on this twine found 3 miles away. If not, it bears no use....as evidence....Well I would think there would be residual DNA from skin cells from the twine. It is very course and sturdy, and considering the way it would have been used in this case I'd bet dollars to donuts there's some DNA from one or more of them on there, you little devil you.

waterlooinspector
05-29-2009, 08:59 AM
Over on this topix board someone suggested that people listen to the Halloween sermon that up on the GCM website. (RC gave it)

www.dotheword.com

I cannot play this kinda stuff on my computer but maybe some of you can and report back what was said in the sermon.

TIA


hr ago
leeloo wrote:
Anyone that would like to hear Ron Coleman speak can go to dotheword.com and listen to the recorded messages. I highly recommend the Halloween sermon if it is still up, it will show you how ignorant this man is.
WOW! that was very interesting to say the least. It gives you a little insight on how CC was raised. He just babbles on. I listened to the holloween story, and he was just making up stuff on the fly. He talked about how he never let his kids celebrate holloween and then remarked how fine they turned out and actually said "there not retarded from it" WOW!


Thanks for sending the link to GC website. I could not help seeing the request for $$$ on the first page....just typical....

TallCoolOne
05-29-2009, 09:36 AM
I can't figure out why she is being kept hidden from everyone - when messes like this become public, news sources camp out in front of homes - follow them wherever they go - dig for info from any place they can find it including their trash cans on trash pick-up day. (I'm sure there is a joke in that last line, but I'm not going there. :eek: ) Anyone who has ever laid eyes on the person would be talking...... So I wonder what the deal is on her. Why is she being so.....protected?????...by everyone? This really has me stumped.
You know, that's quite true. In the Laci Peterson case, once the Enquirer was on to Amber, that was when she came forward, she knew it was going to be out in the open and she beat them to the punch. Why would MM be protected? She actually should be outted before Amber should have been. Amber did not know the convicted murderer (sorry, I hate to even type that filth's name) was married, and MM obviously did/does. I can't believe one of the rag mags haven't outted her yet. What gives?

Storm
05-29-2009, 09:41 AM
I really don't want to sound too naive, but how would one use twine
to strangle someone and do it quickly and move to the next person?
I could google it, but I guess I'm afraid of what I'll find:(
^i^




Well I would think there would be residual DNA from skin cells from the twine. It is very course and sturdy, and considering the way it would have been used in this case I'd bet dollars to donuts there's some DNA from one or more of them on there, you little devil you.

Ginny
05-29-2009, 09:45 AM
I really don't want to sound too naive, but how would one use twine
to strange someone and do it quickly and move to the next person?
I could google it, but I guess I'm afraid of what I'll find:(
^i^

From what I understood was there was a noose-like loop on one end with the other end threaded through the hole.

This whole case makes me sick to my stomach to even try to understand exactly what happened in the Coleman home that sad day.

Kristins1223
05-29-2009, 09:45 AM
I was looking at the dates of some of these meetings. Its interesting that April 27 there was an usher/security meeting at 7pm and thats the same day Chris says they received a threatening letter. The night before they were found murdered, there was a Mens Meeting. And how come theres no more Mens Meeting scheduled for the next 2 months? Was Chris involved in those Mens Meetings??

http://www.highpraises.net/grace/events.html

TallCoolOne
05-29-2009, 10:14 AM
From what I understood was there was a noose-like loop on one end with the other end threaded through the hole.

This whole case makes me sick to my stomach to even try to understand exactly what happened in the Coleman home that sad day.Oh man, me too. I try my best to not think of Garett and Gavin, and not to diminish Sheri's death in the least, but because those were his children, those were the innocents who he should have been he!! bent to protect.

When I let my mind go there, I can't handle it. The very hands that should have been made into fists to protect them are the hands that brought their lives to an end. When I think of my daughter and her girls and someone doing this to them, it just makes my heart ache. I try to imagine what was going through his mind when they were struggling to breath, and I'm so very glad that I can't. Oh how I wish murderers had to suffer the same fate of their victims. I wish it truly were and eye for an eye.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 10:26 AM
Do church's typically have a men only meeting night?

GCM does a men only meeting night on Monday nights (there are no women only meeting nights at GCM)

Our church has a men's fellowship once a month and a women's fellowship once a month. Some of the guys also get together on Thursday mornings to pray. We also have once a year retreats, one for the guys and one for the gals. I don't think its unusual.

Kimster
05-29-2009, 10:31 AM
But there are no women's meetings, is it common to only have men's meeting and none for the women?

Maybe they do and its not publically advertised or something?

artie gumshoe
05-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Purely guess-work, but I think the reason why the mistress hasn't been enveloped by the press is that she is being watched by LE all the time. I don't think this is a case where anyone would want to see her get injured before the trial, I assume she will be used as a witness, so I am not sure they are all too worried about her. Even more so, if she was killed and it looked like a setup or foul play, then I would guess that it would bring even more proof onto CC about his whole mess. I think they are just letting her do her thing and watch her to see what she does. If she goes on with her day, every day, then thats fine. If she sends a card of condolence or flowers to Sheri's family, then you know that she may have actually not known that CC was going to kill them. Or, if the scum that is representing CC has money, maybe they put together some hush money for the girl in florida. So, she is not to say anything to anyone before the trial. I dunno.

ohiogirl
05-29-2009, 10:51 AM
May be she really is cooperating with the authorities. I don't see the reason to have all her information out there just because we are curious. What needs to come out will come out at the trial.
JMO of course.

waterlooinspector
05-29-2009, 10:51 AM
Purely guess-work, but I think the reason why the mistress hasn't been enveloped by the press is that she is being watched by LE all the time. I don't think this is a case where anyone would want to see her get injured before the trial, I assume she will be used as a witness, so I am not sure they are all too worried about her. Even more so, if she was killed and it looked like a setup or foul play, then I would guess that it would bring even more proof onto CC about his whole mess. I think they are just letting her do her thing and watch her to see what she does. If she goes on with her day, every day, then thats fine. If she sends a card of condolence or flowers to Sheri's family, then you know that she may have actually not known that CC was going to kill them. Or, if the scum that is representing CC has money, maybe they put together some hush money for the girl in florida. So, she is not to say anything to anyone before the trial. I dunno.

Artie,

I was thinking about the FL connections. LE said that they were talking to persons (plural) in FL. We know who one is. Who are the others? Any thoughts????

artie gumshoe
05-29-2009, 11:18 AM
I would guess that if he was traveling to FL for work, then there must be something down there where CC would go on a regular basis. Either an office, company housing, something... There may be people involved with those things. Or.... if his gf in florida worked at a stripclub, maybe he frequented one stripper in particular, to have fun with.

FWNana
05-29-2009, 11:19 AM
--- respectfully snipped ---

One thought I did have on the Dish and I don't know if it's possible; but with Dish Network, Directv, etc... the receivers have DVRs built into them. Is it possible he used one of these connections through the dish, since it was already wired, to record activity on from a camera to that DVR? And is that DVR the one that was reported being missing?

Sorry for the delay in getting you an answer -- had employee, shareholder and board meetings until late last night.

I checked with my tech and was told that a camera, to his knowlege, could not be connected directly to a Dish or Directv DVR since they get their feeds directly from a satellite. He also said a camera could be mounted on the satellite dish and connected to a "stand-alone" DVR but the video quality may not be very good.

I have no idea which one was reported missing -- hopefully someone else has had an answer to that while I've been gone.

Lindadanette
05-29-2009, 11:21 AM
Artie,

I was thinking about the FL connections. LE said that they were talking to persons (plural) in FL. We know who one is. Who are the others? Any thoughts????

Not Artie, but I live in FL and have been researching this. Sheri's dad, of course - but also MM's ex-husband (with whom she seems to have an on-again, off-again kind of relationship.) He is/was involved in the adult entertainment industry.

FWNana
05-29-2009, 11:29 AM
From what I know about Dish DVR's & Super Circuits surveillance software, storing surveillance video on the DVR wouldn't be compatible....Dish uses Linux filesystem, the surveillance software uses Windows.

Certainly not an expert but just my take on it.

Not trying to argue!:blowkiss: The better quality surveillance software is written in Linux or Unix. Both are much more stable than Windows. (I do this for a living).

AfterSunset
05-29-2009, 11:31 AM
I was looking at the dates of some of these meetings. Its interesting that April 27 there was an usher/security meeting at 7pm and thats the same day Chris says they received a threatening letter. The night before they were found murdered, there was a Mens Meeting. And how come theres no more Mens Meeting scheduled for the next 2 months? Was Chris involved in those Mens Meetings??

http://www.highpraises.net/grace/events.html


morning peeps! trying to wake up here but IIRC Sheri and her family attended Destiny Church. This is for CC's father's church GBC. sorry I can't find link to destiny church (I've not had my morning 'tea' yet lol)
hth

FWNana
05-29-2009, 11:44 AM
...respectfully snipped...
I still want more info on the Disney trip. Remember someone said one of the boys was upset because the trip was cancelled? When were they to go? I hope around 4/27 when the new "threat" was created. That would point to motive big time.

Does MM have children? If so, what if the Disney trip was for her, her children/friends, and CC --- SC found them and jumped to the conclusion they were for her, CC and the boys --- mentioned to CC she found them and he had to back-peddle (MOTIVE)!!!

MCDRAW
05-29-2009, 11:45 AM
It was not my intention to "bash" JM or JMM or to implicate them in the actual murders and I apologize if it came across that way. Never even heard of them prior to this case! That being said, I don't believe theirs was your standard employee-employer relationship. If I came home and found my entire family slaughtered, my boss would probably be the last person I would call. But CC did do that and JM was there ASAP.

IMO, the connection between CC - and the entire Coleman clan - goes much deeper than just a professional relationship. I guess I'm looking more at the impact the JMM "inner circle" environment may have had on CC psychologically. That is not to say it literally drove him to murder his family, but perhaps he had an elevated sense of entitlement or power due to his position within the ministry. Perhaps he took the message of getting what you want for yourself - at any cost - a bit too far??? Don't know.

There is obviously a great deal of wealth connected to JMM. Personally, I do have a difficult time reconciling that in my own mind - based on their line of business. And it is a business. Seems CC had some shady financial business of his own going on and, IMO, we have not seen the majority of that money trail.....yet.

When a seemingly upstanding, family-oriented, son of a preacher man is suspected of murdering his wife and children, you need to begin peeling away the layers of his life to figure out why. JM and JMM are most certainly some of those layers. IMHO


I understand you feel the need to peel away layers looking for why. I often feel the need to know why. My problem with that is Society as a whole has begun to blame others for the reason that criminals behave as they do. I just can not buy into that. Chris Coleman killed his family because he chose too. He may have felt entitled but I see that as a flaw in him not because of the way his employer ran her business. My husband grew up with an alcoholic father. He chose not to drink because he said he had to grow up in it but his children didn't. I grew up with a drug addict, I chose not to try drugs because I didn't want to take the chance of becoming a drug addict. I firmly believe that it comes down to choices. I don't know many people that had the Beaver Cleaver household but they are trying to have it for their children. Looking for blame elsewhere, to me, is giving Chris Coleman an excuse. I refuse to give him an excuse. He made his choice! He could have made different choices but he didn't.

waterlooinspector
05-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Not Artie, but I live in FL and have been researching this. Sheri's dad, of course - but also MM's ex-husband (with whom she seems to have an on-again, off-again kind of relationship.) He is/was involved in the adult entertainment industry.

I do remember reading that too somewhere. And of course JM was there in February on a crusade. My imagination is going into overdrive with the adult entertainment industry angle and JM and her entourage being there for a crusade. I best leave well enough alone.....

Seriously though....LE has not admitted that these was a romantic relationship between MM and CC, although Sheri's brother has (I hope I have my facts straight on that). I keep asking myself, why get involved in one of Sheri's best friends. I have heard that MM is cooperating fully with LE. And the fact that she has not been locked up yet as an accessory makes me think that there could be something more here than meets the eye that we are overlooking. Of Course, I am questioning the reasoning capacity of someone who would off his own kids too......geez....

MCDRAW
05-29-2009, 12:01 PM
Her parents are reported to have told the press that they never will have anything to say about it, and I just went back to make sure it wasn't Tara that said that.

Isn't it sad that is what she said and what all of us know she would say? Nothing along the lines of acknowledging guilt, putting out an apology even though it isn't worth a ****. She didn't just know Sheri, and she didn't just know Chris, she knew Sheri's family as well.

Getting a divorce and being a divorce are two totally different things... especially when it appears that Tara could have easily seen that CC was lying.

I think she is getting off easy and I'm having a hard time accepting that she is not in jail right along with CC. I did notice in the NG transcripts that LE spoke with other people in Florida, that's good news that I hadn't noticed before. More witnesses to the affair...


I'm thinking she (Tara) could have asked Sheri if they were getting a divorce. If they were friends she could have called and said Hey I heard this rumor that you and Chris are getting a divorce. In my opinion, since she didn't do that she knew that they were not. Or she didn't care.

looneymama
05-29-2009, 12:04 PM
Does MM have children? If so, what if the Disney trip was for her, her children/friends, and CC --- SC found them and jumped to the conclusion they were for her, CC and the boys --- mentioned to CC she found them and he had to back-peddle (MOTIVE)!!!

What if one of the kids found the tickets? I remember a few threads back someone said that there was a rumor that one of the boys had told his teacher that he was going to Disney and was really excited about it, and then later seemed upset and said that they weren't going now because his mom didn't want them to miss that much school. What if CC bought the tickets for him and someone else and one of the boys found them. That would make more sense than them both buying the tickets, telling them that they were going and then Sheri back tracking and saying "well actually, I don't want you to miss that much school so we're not going now"

I know the Disney thing was just a rumor...but we heard that before we heard about them actually finding tickets at the house.

Stella5
05-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Does MM have children? If so, what if the Disney trip was for her, her children/friends, and CC --- SC found them and jumped to the conclusion they were for her, CC and the boys --- mentioned to CC she found them and he had to back-peddle (MOTIVE)!!!

We haven't heard of any children that MM has.

About the Disney tickets found... when you prepurchase your Disney Tickets and/or when you make reservations to stay at a Disney Property they actually FedEx you your "Passport to the World" keys with the name of each individual person on the reservation printed on them. So if Sheri or one of the boys found them, they would know whether or not they were for them. I believe they were actually planning to go; but Sheri cancelled because she probably found out about MM.

Stella5
05-29-2009, 12:25 PM
I do remember reading that too somewhere. And of course JM was there in February on a crusade. My imagination is going into overdrive with the adult entertainment industry angle and JM and her entourage being there for a crusade. I best leave well enough alone.....

Seriously though....LE has not admitted that these was a romantic relationship between MM and CC, although Sheri's brother has (I hope I have my facts straight on that). I keep asking myself, why get involved in one of Sheri's best friends. I have heard that MM is cooperating fully with LE. And the fact that she has not been locked up yet as an accessory makes me think that there could be something more here than meets the eye that we are overlooking. Of Course, I am questioning the reasoning capacity of someone who would off his own kids too......geez....

Actually Major Connors did confirm that they had been to FL to interview MM in connection with having a romantic relationship with CC. That was before the arrest.

Stella5
05-29-2009, 12:27 PM
You know, that's quite true. In the Laci Peterson case, once the Enquirer was on to Amber, that was when she came forward, she knew it was going to be out in the open and she beat them to the punch. Why would MM be protected? She actually should be outted before Amber should have been. Amber did not know the convicted murderer (sorry, I hate to even type that filth's name) was married, and MM obviously did/does. I can't believe one of the rag mags haven't outted her yet. What gives?

Has any of the trash rags even picked up on this story yet? I don't buy them, so I don't really pay attention to them at the store. I am a regular People reader and haven't seen it in there either - which is very strange. This is a case they'd normally be all over.

Texas Mist
05-29-2009, 12:30 PM
Not trying to argue!:blowkiss: The better quality surveillance software is written in Linux or Unix. Both are much more stable than Windows. (I do this for a living).


I was going by the setup guide for the system missing from the empty box noted in the SW. The software setup & installation was for Windows.

ETA: I'm also curious as to the answer for storing surveillance video on a Dish DVR (which was the question I was attempting to answer)....do you know how a Dish DVR could be incorporated into the surveillance system @ the Coleman home?

TIA!

ETA2: FWIW, I do understand embedded OS's in devices (most of the ones I work with are Linux/Unix based)....the info I have on Dish DVRs is that their fileformat for data (recorded shows) is proprietary. Please let me know if I'm misundertanding the technology.

TIA!

Lola
05-29-2009, 01:30 PM
Looks as though the Ms. Lintz contacted police

Warrants: Coleman told girlfriend they'd marry next year; he had alibi for murders (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/B1F6BDD14E1D573F862575C5005BFE6B?OpenDocument)

Christopher Coleman told his girlfriend in Florida that he would marry her in 2010, and that he had an alibi for the murders of his slain family, according to search warrants obtained by the Post-Dispatch.

The girlfriend, Tara Lintz, was interviewed by police in St. Petersburg, Fla., in the days following the murders of Sheri Coleman and her two young sons on May 5. girlfriend admitted to investigators that she had sexually explicit communications with Chris Coleman via her cell phone, email, and social networking accounts. She said their sexual relationship began in November 2008.


<snip>He discussed the interview he had with the investigators concerning the death of his family. He told her, he did not commit the murders and had an alibi," an affidavit states.

Lintz contacted authorities after getting the email, the documents state.

Ginny
05-29-2009, 01:35 PM
Looks as though the Ms. Lintz contacted police

Warrants: Coleman told girlfriend they'd marry next year; he had alibi for murders (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/B1F6BDD14E1D573F862575C5005BFE6B?OpenDocument)

Christopher Coleman told his girlfriend in Florida that he would marry her in 2010, and that he had an alibi for the murders of his slain family, according to search warrants obtained by the Post-Dispatch.

The girlfriend, Tara Lintz, was interviewed by police in St. Petersburg, Fla., in the days following the murders of Sheri Coleman and her two young sons on May 5. girlfriend admitted to investigators that she had sexually explicit communications with Chris Coleman via her cell phone, email, and social networking accounts. She said their sexual relationship began in November 2008.


<snip>He discussed the interview he had with the investigators concerning the death of his family. He told her, he did not commit the murders and had an alibi," an affidavit states.

Lintz contacted authorities after getting the email, the documents state.

I found this rather intersting in this article:

"The documents also state Sheri Coleman closed her Facebook account because there "were unauthorized changes to her Facebook account without her knowledge."

Sheri Coleman told friends she was getting threats on her Facebook account, possibly related to the death threats in the mailbox at her house. "

This is the first I've heard of this. Is this new for anyone else?

Texas Mist
05-29-2009, 01:35 PM
Looks as though the Ms. Lintz contacted police

Warrants: Coleman told girlfriend they'd marry next year; he had alibi for murders (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/B1F6BDD14E1D573F862575C5005BFE6B?OpenDocument)

Christopher Coleman told his girlfriend in Florida that he would marry her in 2010, and that he had an alibi for the murders of his slain family, according to search warrants obtained by the Post-Dispatch.

The girlfriend, Tara Lintz, was interviewed by police in St. Petersburg, Fla., in the days following the murders of Sheri Coleman and her two young sons on May 5. girlfriend admitted to investigators that she had sexually explicit communications with Chris Coleman via her cell phone, email, and social networking accounts. She said their sexual relationship began in November 2008.


<snip>He discussed the interview he had with the investigators concerning the death of his family. He told her, he did not commit the murders and had an alibi," an affidavit states.

Lintz contacted authorities after getting the email, the documents state.


so we were right -- CC was sexting!!

Texas Mist
05-29-2009, 01:39 PM
I found this rather intersting in this article:

"The documents also state Sheri Coleman closed her Facebook account because there "were unauthorized changes to her Facebook account without her knowledge."

Sheri Coleman told friends she was getting threats on her Facebook account, possibly related to the death threats in the mailbox at her house. "

This is the first I've heard of this. Is this new for anyone else?

I don't recall hearing this either Ginny....it would've been really easy for CC to get her password (via keylogger) & do it to further his 'psychos are harassing & threatening my familly' setup.

I bet LE already knows which IP addresses were logging into her account. ;)

Lola
05-29-2009, 01:39 PM
I found this rather intersting in this article:

"The documents also state Sheri Coleman closed her Facebook account because there "were unauthorized changes to her Facebook account without her knowledge."

Sheri Coleman told friends she was getting threats on her Facebook account, possibly related to the death threats in the mailbox at her house. "

This is the first I've heard of this. Is this new for anyone else?

News to me. Another point -- they hook up in November and January 1st he starts with the "threat" letters??

DairyGirl
05-29-2009, 01:43 PM
That's interesting. I've never heard of men's or woman's night in relationship to any religion. Sounds horribly sexist to my ears...

I think I remember on JMM's website she was promoting something that sounded geared towards empowering women. Lemme see if it's still up.

I used to belong to a church that had mens and womens bible studies.

Mia
05-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Chris Coleman told his girlfriend he had an alibi for the murders? What? Going to the gym? That's already been disproved based on time of death. Oh my gosh, the more I read about this guy, the angrier I get. He is having an affair with one of his wife's oldest, best friends all the while pretending to be a good Christian and live a life of piety. He then decides he wants to marry his wife's best friend, so stirs up a plan to murder his wife AND his two darling little boys. Is it possible for one to be more narcissistic than this? I've never heard of a more evil human being, if he can be called that, in my life. I am against the death penalty, generally, but I'll make an exception for this one. In my opinion, the prosecution has a slam dunk case. They have a motive, it seems as though they have forensic evidence, and they have a witness (to the motive) in the form of Ms. Lintz. There's no way this guy is getting off.

galvino
05-29-2009, 01:45 PM
I found this rather intersting in this article:

"The documents also state Sheri Coleman closed her Facebook account because there "were unauthorized changes to her Facebook account without her knowledge."

Sheri Coleman told friends she was getting threats on her Facebook account, possibly related to the death threats in the mailbox at her house. "

This is the first I've heard of this. Is this new for anyone else?

This whole article was quite enlightening! CC is dumber than a box of rocks I tell ya! (my aplogies to all the rocks out there)

DairyGirl
05-29-2009, 01:48 PM
Looks as though the Ms. Lintz contacted police

Warrants: Coleman told girlfriend they'd marry next year; he had alibi for murders (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/B1F6BDD14E1D573F862575C5005BFE6B?OpenDocument)

Christopher Coleman told his girlfriend in Florida that he would marry her in 2010, and that he had an alibi for the murders of his slain family, according to search warrants obtained by the Post-Dispatch.

The girlfriend, Tara Lintz, was interviewed by police in St. Petersburg, Fla., in the days following the murders of Sheri Coleman and her two young sons on May 5. girlfriend admitted to investigators that she had sexually explicit communications with Chris Coleman via her cell phone, email, and social networking accounts. She said their sexual relationship began in November 2008.


<snip>He discussed the interview he had with the investigators concerning the death of his family. He told her, he did not commit the murders and had an alibi," an affidavit states.

Lintz contacted authorities after getting the email, the documents state.

"In the emails, Christopher talks about his extramarital relationship with Lintz," according to an affidavit filed by a detective. "He also sent emails to Lintz about plans to marry her in January, 2010, and their upcoming trip this summer."

I guess those rumors about wedding invitation might have been true.

WholeLottaRosie
05-29-2009, 01:49 PM
But there are no women's meetings, is it common to only have men's meeting and none for the women?

Even if they don't call it a woman's meeting, do they have things like a ladies group that does sewing, crafts, bible study, volunteer things? It seems to me most churches have something like this?

SuziQ
05-29-2009, 01:51 PM
Is this another search warrant released today? Or is the media holding out on us?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/B1F6BDD14E1D573F862575C5005BFE6B?OpenDocument

(snip)
The Post-Dispatch first disclosed the affair a week after the murders, but the newly released search warrants provide a deeper look at the relationship.

DairyGirl
05-29-2009, 01:52 PM
Also, the article said they have been having an affair since Nov. 2008? Isn't that when the threats started? The first note came Jan. 2009?

Bluenotes
05-29-2009, 01:53 PM
What if one of the kids found the tickets? I remember a few threads back someone said that there was a rumor that one of the boys had told his teacher that he was going to Disney and was really excited about it, and then later seemed upset and said that they weren't going now because his mom didn't want them to miss that much school. What if CC bought the tickets for him and someone else and one of the boys found them. That would make more sense than them both buying the tickets, telling them that they were going and then Sheri back tracking and saying "well actually, I don't want you to miss that much school so we're not going now"

I know the Disney thing was just a rumor...but we heard that before we heard about them actually finding tickets at the house.

That is not a rumor.

Mia
05-29-2009, 01:54 PM
And one more thing. I don't know Ms. Lintz personally, but what kind of a woman would have an affair with her best friend's husband?! Does this kind of thing happen often? I don't think I could even date an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend of one of my best friends, simply out of respect for my friend. Do people really have that little love and respect for one another? It makes me sad. Sheri was being betrayed on multiple levels, by her husband and her best friend. And now she is murdered, along with her beloved little boys. If hell exists, I hope there's a special place in it for this kind of evil.

Ginny
05-29-2009, 01:54 PM
This whole article was quite enlightening! CC is dumber than a box of rocks I tell ya! (my aplogies to all the rocks out there)

:clap:

Texas Mist
05-29-2009, 01:54 PM
"In the emails, Christopher talks about his extramarital relationship with Lintz," according to an affidavit filed by a detective. "He also sent emails to Lintz about plans to marry her in January, 2010, and their upcoming trip this summer."

I guess those rumors about wedding invitation might have been true.

I wonder if MM called LE because:
* she didn't want to be implicated ?
* she wanted to confirm that CC had an alibi ?
*she had an OMG moment -- realizing that CC had been lying to her -- and she sensed he was the perp ?

Looks like the rumor that he called her that a.m. was true too.

Mindopen
05-29-2009, 01:58 PM
Has any of the trash rags even picked up on this story yet? I don't buy them, so I don't really pay attention to them at the store. I am a regular People reader and haven't seen it in there either - which is very strange. This is a case they'd normally be all over.

It's in the latest issue of GLOBE.

Mia
05-29-2009, 02:01 PM
I wonder if MM called LE because:
* she didn't want to be implicated ?
* she wanted to confirm that CC had an alibi ?
*she had an OMG moment -- realizing that CC had been lying to her -- and she sensed he was the perp ?

Looks like the rumor that he called her that a.m. was true too.

My guess is that she had an "OMG moment", and realized he was most likely the murderer, although she probably didn't want to accept it at first. And she probably called LE because she realized it would look better if she got in touch with them first, rather than them having to find out about her on their own. So it was most likely a mixture of all three. You've definitely mapped out this woman's thought processes to a T. :clap:

Texas Mist
05-29-2009, 02:11 PM
And one more thing. I don't know Ms. Lintz personally, but what kind of a woman would have an affair with her best friend's husband?! Does this kind of thing happen often? I don't think I could even date an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend of one of my best friends, simply out of respect for my friend. Do people really have that little love and respect for one another? It makes me sad. Sheri was being betrayed on multiple levels, by her husband and her best friend. And now she is murdered, along with her beloved little boys. If hell exists, I hope there's a special place in it for this kind of evil.

I don't know anyone personally (well, that I'm aware of) who's had an affair with the spouse of a BFF, but I do know peeps who've had affairs with someone who's married.

There's some women who just don't care about whatever pain the wife & children could be enduring currently or in the future because of it, or they are sick enough to think it's amusing that they have the 'power' to take a man away from his family....they even take joy in making sure the marriage falls apart (been the victim of this one myself).

Then there are the women who fall for the 'my marriage has fallen apart & we're working on a separation' line of BS.... hard to pull off if wifey & g/f are BFF's!

Or the ones who fall for men who say they are already separated & getting a divorce is complicated, blah blah blah...again, harder to pull off if wifey & g/f are BFF's!

So I can't figure out MM's motive for the affair at all!! Unless Sheri was telling her the same thing - that her marriage was on the rocks & somehow MM justified to herself what she was doing ....still don't understand how she could carry on a friendship with Sheri!!

waterlooinspector
05-29-2009, 02:15 PM
so we were right -- CC was sexting!!


So my loosed lips buddies from LE the other night at the local pub were right. Sounds like they were not only sexting....every electronic form of communication was being "sexed".

SleuthyMama
05-29-2009, 02:19 PM
Quick question...do we know that Tara and Sheri REMAINED friends after high school? What I'm getting at is is there a chance that they lost contact and Tara didn't know exactly what the status of their marriage was? I'm not excusing her having the affair with CC just wondering if it's possible she may have fallen out of friendship w/ Sheri sometime in the past but perhaps CC contacted HER knowing he'd be in FL on a JMM trip and everything just went spiraling out of control from there?

waterlooinspector
05-29-2009, 02:23 PM
I wonder if MM called LE because:
* she didn't want to be implicated ?
* she wanted to confirm that CC had an alibi ?
*she had an OMG moment -- realizing that CC had been lying to her -- and she sensed he was the perp ?

Looks like the rumor that he called her that a.m. was true too.

Point one and three....must have been alarms going off in her head like crazy that he was the perp!